^^ we can not compare rome with makkah at all.

I agree. Imagine Rome if they did this:

http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Nav/meka.jpg

Oh, well, it is done, I guess. tallest hotel in the world by far.

Ahahah, that's a cool comparaison.

^^ we can not compare rome with makkah at all.

Why not? They are both old sacred cities (talking more of the Vatican than of Rome) even if Rome is far older than Mecca.

^^ No comparison dear

Krom no he mean makkah surrounded by mountain it's not flat as rome plus it's very high price! how can you people solve it?

^^ I don't really get it either, building these huge hotels next to the sacred Masjid al-Haram. Ofcourse they say it's for pilgrims, but basically it's (western style) commercialism hitting hard on (the muslim) religion.

I am not religious at all, but I do feel it's a shame. It's like Mecca meets Vegas, also because the style of architecture is pretty tacky...

But take a look at the architecture and design of the building itself. It clearly is a building that signifies and coincide to the city itself. Thats is not like the city of Rome with those Vegas Casino Towers :lol: (good thing you did not put the MGM Grand Casino or its going to get worse). IMO, the tower is truly a revolution of Islamic Architecture and it fit well to the city and its architectures. The only insignificant factor is the tremendous height but everyone knows that we have to cope with it in the future so why not now?

No comparison because Makkah is all about the Mosque while the vatican is just one of the many monuments of Rome
But building a 600meters skyscraper so close to the kabaa it's not the only solution to the problems of the pilgrims (especially because only Millionaires pilgrims could go there), but it's just a very good investment
^^ I don't really get it either, building these huge hotels next to the sacred Masjid al-Haram. Ofcourse they say it's for pilgrims, but basically it's (western style) commercialism hitting hard on (the muslim) religion.

I am not religious at all, but I do feel it's a shame. It's like Mecca meets Vegas, also because the style of architecture is pretty tacky...
Totally agree

no y r wrong i asked them about zamzam's apartment price it's very cheap only 5333$ one week for 23year (of course out of sessions).

^^
Did you mean one week every 23 years? :hahano:

Even if the prices are very high there still the income goes for the maintenance of the holy mosques.

Actually, that is not true. The bylaws specifically allow sub-letting, and as such, business people and 'royal family' have picked up most of the spaces available to date, and then are sub-letting / renting and massively higher prices (not just the very high prices already set by the builders). As such, a vast majority of the profits are going to the hands of these investors and 'royal family' and not into the Kaaba endowment.

In addition, irrespective of the cost of land in Saudi, the fact that these are so expensive and so close to the Kaaba reinforce a caste system. Most of the visitors cannot even hope to be allowed into the lobbies as they cannot afford such things. The whole argument of accommodating the visitors is a crock.

So that is about $7,200 for one week of a 33sq metre studio during low season (50 degrees Celsius), and about $187,000 for one month during the month of the hajj. These are the official 'cheap' prices for the poor pilgrims. Most of the leases have been picked up and are being sub-let at even higher prices!

-----
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,1947126,00.html

excerpts:
"Timeshare, a concept more usually associated with Torremolinos and the Algarve, has spread to Mecca and divided opinion in the Muslim world. Built by the Binladin Group, the construction firm founded by Mohammed bin Laden, the father of Osama, the ZamZam tower offers five-star accommodation, a shopping centre, restaurants and a car park."

"A week's lease on a 33 sq metre studio with city views costs £3,600 in low season. A studio with views of the House of Allah, the Ka'bah, costs £93,500 to lease during the month of hajj."

"Talal Mahmood Malik is chief executive of Alpha1Estates, which is selling timeshares for the 1,240 suites to Muslims in the UK and Europe. In the company brochure, prospective buyers are told they can expect an average rental return of between 10% and 15% a year."

Talal Mahmood Malik is chief executive of Alpha1Estates, which is selling timeshares for the 1,240 suites to Muslims in the UK and Europe. In the company brochure, prospective buyers are told they can expect an average rental return of between 10% and 15% a year.

-----

http://tehranifaisal.blogspot.com/2007_02_11_archive.html
Opponents say the skyscraper and its money-spinning potential goes against the spirit of hajj, a pilgrimage founded on purity, equality and simplicity.

Saudi authorities will use the initial revenue to maintain the holy site, but there is nothing to stop homeowners from selling or subleasing their timeshare for inflated prices. Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, a historian and co-chair of the Islamic Heritage Foundation, set up to protect sites of cultural and historical interest in Mecca, said: "This timeshare is the exploitation and commercialisation of a holy city.

-----

An example of what actually happens. Want to rent a 38 sqm space in the Zam Zam (double bed + sofa bed) for 20th Ramadan to 1st Shawwal? That will be $16,000 per day, with only block bookings accepted - so you'd best have $200K for the hotel space alone! Who gets the profit? The investor or royal who purchased the place.

-----
http://www.alkhateeb.com/Arabic_Main_Page.htm#English

But take a look at the architecture and design of the building itself.

It looks like a casino!

Is that the ancient Ottoman castle that was demolished in order to make some space for this building? Sorry but this is simply backward! Beside this it doesn't simply fit next to such a holy place!

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3251/29584881bnqemfayodphjh5.jpg

^^ In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.

^^
Did you mean one week every 23 years? :hahano:
One week, every year, for 23 years.

^^ In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.


One week, every year, for 23 years.

Actually - the price I showed (I had a link confirming) provided it for only one single week for a price of $7,200 in low season. Not one week for 23 years.

In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.

Because it looks like a casino! The only way it fits is if you worship money!

Here is the irony. Do all you folks know why all the pilgrims where the same clothing during hajj? It is so there is no discrimination between rich and poor, or the different cultures.

Is that the ancient Ottoman castle that was demolished in order to make some space for this building? Sorry but this is simply backward! Beside this it doesn't simply fit next to such a holy place!

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3251/29584881bnqemfayodphjh5.jpg

They demolished it to build the towers? Damn, as a european, I cannot imagine such a thing happening.

They demolished it to build the towers? Damn, as a european, I cannot imagine such a thing happening.

Yeah exactly - have a look at post 670 ...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15082106&postcount=670

The people opposed to this project have various issues with it, with one of the most fundamental being the destruction of items of irreplaceable historical importance (and in cases, world importance and not just for the region).

I have previously given the example of the large Buddha statues in Afghanistan as a parallel, not necessarily to this specific project, but the Saudis have been destroying many structures over a millenia old. This Bin Laden project is atrocious within this context. It is interesting that the funding for this is actually the same as that which was funding the other Bin Laden - the wahabi theocracy!

excerpt from the article quoted in post 670:

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."

walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?

walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?

I don't think he's spamming at all. And his information hardly touches on religion. I think he's giving some very interesting information about the financial nature of this project and pointing out the fact that some significant historical structures have been demolished to make way for what is, in effect, the most hideous building I have ever seen in my life. All seems quite relevant.

Wali, Please do not talk about this project if you do not know details.

Royal family and other are renting there and even bought some studios and complete floors for 25 years only.

The income of this project goes to saudi binladin group cause they built the project from their own money and the gov. just provided them the land. That is why they deserve the income for 25 years then any income AFTER 25 YEARS will be for the maintenance of the holy mosque inshallah.

Saudi Binladin Group sold two towers to some kuwaiti investors (ZamZam Tower & Hajar) for 25 years then again the income will go to the gov. for maintenance.

Upto now this project is not an endowment and you can only judge it after 25 years not now since it is just an investment for Saudi Binladin Group for the next 25 years.

I think what I said should stop this useless arguement about prices and royal family blah blah blah.

Again I am repeating, It is investment for Saudi Binladin Group for the next 25 years inshaa Allah so please do not start judging.

The gov. paid NOTHING for this project till now except the land sure and that is why it will be endowment.

The Binladin Group deserves to get back all the expenses within next 25 years and to get high income too of it since this project is costing Saudi Binladin Group 4$ billion.

I don't think he's spamming at all. And his information hardly touches on religion. I think he's giving some very interesting information about the financial nature of this project and pointing out the fact that some significant historical structures have been demolished to make way for what is, in effect, the most hideous building I have ever seen in my life. All seems quite relevant.

Walli is indeed spamming this thread. He is spreading his hatred of the Saudi regime in this relegion pointing out worthless facts this project.

Yeah exactly - have a look at post 670 ...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15082106&postcount=670

The people opposed to this project have various issues with it, with one of the most fundamental being the destruction of items of irreplaceable historical importance (and in cases, world importance and not just for the region).

I have previously given the example of the large Buddha statues in Afghanistan as a parallel, not necessarily to this specific project, but the Saudis have been destroying many structures over a millenia old. This Bin Laden project is atrocious within this context. It is interesting that the funding for this is actually the same as that which was funding the other Bin Laden - the wahabi theocracy!

excerpt from the article quoted in post 670:

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."

True, the Saudi regime demolsihed many historical places, BUT the land outside the Kaaba is very limited and building such large buildings are needed in time.

What the Saudi government did to the pilgrims--to God's guests-- is something that NO other country can AND WILL DO all this to its people. THe Holy Mosque has never been bigger in its LONG history and the HAJJ shrines that Muslims visit to perform the Hajj has been expanded thousands of times.The Stone throwing ritual is now being performed on a three story place where in the past it used to be at ground level!

Because it looks like a casino! The only way it fits is if you worship money!

Here is the irony. Do all you folks know why all the pilgrims where the same clothing during hajj? It is so there is no discrimination between rich and poor, or the different cultures.

God never forbid people from spending their money to live in luxury. Islam is a lenient relegion. If you have money, you are allowed to live in 5 star hotels if you want to. Weather this building looks like a Casino or not, it is a sacred building, containg an extention of the Holy Mosque and Minaret as well.

walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?

Walli is trying to spread anti-Saudi propoganda. He even posted CRAP about Bin Laden Construction company and related it to Osama. THe BinLaden Company is one of the world's largest construction companies and simply relating to Osama in any way or mentioning Osama when mentioning the company is simply stupid and childish.

So, I suggest take your WORTHLESS crap out of here.

It's almost like demolishing London Tower to build some apartments for city workers. It's insane to demolish such a historic building, but whatever if that's the way you roll, you will probably regret it one day.

I respect Walli's opinion, but it's probably not necessary to rehash this stuff over and over.

wow i take bcak what I said that this is great project

OMG! I can't believe that castle was demolished. And I can't believe it will be replaced by such an horrible thing. Shame on them!

shame is the only word we can say...
binladin family is building this? they can ask some relative...to knock down this monster, they know how can do it

Here are a sample of stories about the debate regarding the Bin Laden demolition of the castle:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/fort-j28.shtml (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/fort-j28.shtml)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1748711.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1748711.stm)
http://web.deu.edu.tr/atiksu/ana15/ana15.html (http://web.deu.edu.tr/atiksu/ana15/ana15.html)

shame is the only word we can say...
binladin family is building this? they can ask some relative...to knock down this monster, they know how can do it
Please avoid comments like this.

Seriously though, I think we've heard enough of this debate for now.
Walli, you've said your point well enough by now so no need to keep repeating it.

Please avoid comments like this.

Seriously though, I think we've heard enough of this debate for now.
Walli, you've said your point well enough by now so no need to keep repeating it.

I'm relly sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but I think that I can stay silent seeing tis shit
..so I've told my point of you, I'll stay outside this forum, goodbye

Please avoid comments like this.

People have the right to freedom of speech, and we've seen what the family values of Bin Laden construction have done to other items of historical importance, such as in Afghanistan. If you have a counter point, you should make it!

Seriously though, I think we've heard enough of this debate for now.
Walli, you've said your point well enough by now so no need to keep repeating it.

Actually - previously I did not know that this specific site housed an ancient Ottoman castle. Someone else brought this up, and it was an important point. [oddly, it was a project supporter, stating how expensive the transformation must have been]

You can see from the responses from several folks interested in construction, architecture and planning that this was news to them, and it made a difference in their view of the project.

Significant underlying points such as what has been discussed recently should not simply be pushed aside and weighted equally with other menial points. Some things require and demand more focus.

There is no doubt that this building is an icon. What that icon represents is not something the supporters should be shy of - trying to sweep it under the rug won't make it disappear!

I'm relly sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but I think that I can stay silent seeing tis shit
..so I've told my point of you, I'll stay outside this forum, goodbye

You did not offend anyone. I think there are numerous people who are reading this forum to appreciate frankness and honesty!

Lucky the Abraj Al-Bait is a cool building, but it seems to me that historical buildings should be preserved. You don't burn down old and unique books because you need place, even for pilgrims or else. History is more important than religion, I think.

I don't get this argument of space. Wasn't there any building carrying less history to destroy in order to build skyscrapers?

Lucky the Abraj Al-Bait is a cool building, but it seems to me that historical buildings should be preserved. You don't burn down old and unique books because you need place, even for pilgrims or else. History is more important than religion, I think.

I don't get this argument of space. Wasn't there any building carrying less history to destroy in order to build skyscrapers?

There absolutely was other land - the built-up area of Mecca is only about 3 miles radius around the Kaaba. Something could have been constructed on the desert lands within that type of distance. All one would have then needed was a carefully thought out transportation system.

One has to remember that Saudi Arabia, its regime and the wahabi tradition that drives it, are all very knew phenomena within the Muslim world. Their traditions and beliefs, while presented as authentic and original, are actually very new, and make most Muslims scratch their heads. The undercurrents of these three involve removing of history, particularly that which demonstrates diversity of tradition, architecture as well as culture itself.

Here is an interesting excerpt within the context of the on-going discussions, referencing a time when the Ottomans controlled the area:
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/protection_of_kaaba.html

---
Ottoman rulers regarded themselves not as the rulers of Mecca and Medina, but rather as its servants. Therefore, ever since the time of Sultan Selim II, Ottoman rulers employed the title of Hadimu’l- Haramain Shareefain, or “servant of Mecca and Medina.”

<snip>

During all this architectural work, great care was taken not to construct anything taller than the Kaaba itself. During the construction of the Hijaz railway, Sultan Abdulhamid II had special tracks laid down that would reduces the noise from trains.
---

For all you blossoming architects, planners and designers out there, don't let anyone tell you that context and history are not part of your trade. They absolutely are.

BTW - for those interested in architecture in the Islamic world, there was an awesome show on BBC World recently that someone has posted on the web. It includes some snips of Lord Norman Foster also. Have a look-see:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2znnn_bbc-video-aga-khan-award-for-archit_creation

walli, why don't you go to skybar forum (For those who have nothing better to do) and start a thread about how the saudis are destroying history and leave this thread for us to discuss this project.

I'm not sure what point are you trying to address but for your information the castle is meaninless to Muslims and it represents an era of oppression and occupation to Saudis. I remember few years back how most Saudis were happy that the government decided to demolish it. There was an online pettition started by some Turks. Few days later Saudis started a poll in a popular discussoin website and the support for demolishing was huge. After all it's more important to build rooms for 300,000 people annually than a preserving a castle for few thousands tourists. People go to Mecca for one reason, praying; not sight seeing. There's online ONE mecca and thousands of castles...

anywasy walli, you have spammed this thread with 30 posts already -please stop-. When i visit this thread and go to the last page, i expect to read dicussions and opinions and updates about the structure itself; not your copy-paste highlited pre historic hatred articles....

I'm not sure what point are you trying to address but for your information the castle is meaninless to Muslims and it represents an era of oppression and occupation to Saudis.

Actually - that castle was there to protect the Kaaba, and as such is part of the Kaaba's history. There was no such thing as 'occupation of Saudi Arabia' as the Saud family was not known back then. You should know your own history!

Also, you have equated Muslims to Saudis in your comment. As you would have seen in the recent links I posted, numerous Muslims urged for Saudi to respect Muslim history and not destroy the Kaaba's heritage, but the Saudis did not listen.

Also, Riyadhi - could you translate Saudi guy's comments to English for us?

People have the right to freedom of speech, and we've seen what the family values of Bin Laden construction have done to other items of historical importance, such as in Afghanistan. If you have a counter point, you should make it!



Actually - previously I did not know that this specific site housed an ancient Ottoman castle. Someone else brought this up, and it was an important point. [oddly, it was a project supporter, stating how expensive the transformation must have been]

You can see from the responses from several folks interested in construction, architecture and planning that this was news to them, and it made a difference in their view of the project.

Significant underlying points such as what has been discussed recently should not simply be pushed aside and weighted equally with other menial points. Some things require and demand more focus.

There is no doubt that this building is an icon. What that icon represents is not something the supporters should be shy of - trying to sweep it under the rug won't make it disappear!
I'm not trying to brush aside anything but I don't feel this is the thread that all this discussion should go in since this particular section of SSC is mostly for updates on projects, etc. I doubt this issue is just with this particular project either so a thread in the citytalk and urban issues forum (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9) would be better.
Just so you don't get the wrong impression I agree with most of what you say. This issue is definitely important and should be discussed but this isn't the right thread.

I don't know much about this whole thing so it'd be better if one of you created the new thread over there.

I do not agree with wali at all. Also, seems that wali never visited Saudi Arabia and that is why he is arguing for nothing really. If you disagree with height of the building, I would understand but if you disagree with demolishing of this castle then what about house of sahabah (friends of prophet (PBUH)) and all historic buildings? If Saudi gov, kept these buildings, number of pilgrimes would never be over than 10,000 or maybe even less cause they would stop the expansion of the holy mosque and they would be real obstruction for pilgrimes.

Number of pilgrimes are over than 5 million now and when you go for hajj, you find them sleeping on streets cause no place to go for it. Building such huge buildings will help so much.

I know that you gonna comment about prices again but at least when there are many expensive buildings near the holy mosque, this will help the prices of other area which are far from the holy mosque to be lower.

Now you pay thousands of dollars to live 10 km far from the holy mosque for few days.

Let's drop this useless arguement please and discuss the project.

By the way the tent on al safa tower has been completed 100%

:D

The problem is Wali is that we have all these grave and saint worshipping sufis
Every day the Salafia (those that follow the companions and the next few generations) have to turn away sufi grave worshippers from the burial ground of Aisha, etc

If we didn't have to deal with these grave worshipping sufis, then we would be able to keep these beautiful historical buildings and sites. But unfortunately the saudis are forbidden from preventing these grave worshippers into the holy sites , and so because of these few bad apples we get to loose these historical sites

And I think it is really innapropriate to hijack this thread to push your agenda.

DreaM,

Is there any significance for the new height number (595)?
I just looked up the dates and I found that it's the date when the prophet married married Khadijah -not an important event really!-

No Riyadhi, this is not the first increment of height... after 579 M, Height has been increased to be 585 M then 592 M and now 595 M but I was in vacation so I could not update you guys.

Very interesting. One of the towers looks like Empire State Building with much more windows. Thanks for posting it! :okay:

Very interesting. One of the towers looks like Empire State Building with much more windows. Thanks for posting it! :okay:

this one tower is the Hotel Tower with 595m :)

so in that case i think it's tallest hotel right?

yes, as far as i know it will be the tallest hotel when completed

I belive the offical name of the tallest tower is "Makkah Royal Hotel"

^^iam sure it's not final.

^^ It is final as name of the hotel (main tower).

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

Too dominating...

WTF? crazy, and indeed, waaaay too dominating but who cares built it! :)

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

It look too out of place seriously.

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

Now that just simply looks like a massive structure. As some said, it was built on an Ottoman Castle. I would assume that this would be one of the only places such structures like these would be built on as it does look like a castle itself.

It look too out of place seriously.

It is the largest construction project in world so what are you expecting?

About the area, the surrounded area will be demolished and new projects/buildings will be built inshallah (god willing) such as Jabal Umar (consists of over than 10 highrise buildings) and rawabi project which consists of 17 highrise buildings, each one is at least 200 meter height behind this project.

Now that just simply looks like a massive structure. As some said, it was built on an Ottoman Castle. I would assume that this would be one of the only places such structures like these would be built on as it does look like a castle itself.

This projrct has three names:

1- Development of King Abdul Aziz Endowment (DOKAAE)
2- Abraj al-Bait.
3- The Castle.

3rd name being obvious, heh.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg
:ohno:
The tower looks more important than the mosque

The mosque has to be the central and not the tower

the total among of investment in central area more than 24 billion$
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4028/dokaaeua3ex2.jpg

wow, damn much projects going on in Mecca!!

that looks so out of place I wonder how the people of Mecca feel about this project?

^^ Skyscrapers is the last thing they will worry about there

i would prefer more of those project you can see on the left side (sorry, forgot the name)

BTW, are there any plans to expand the mosque?

^^ Not sure but the new projects would have a prayer ground attached with the mosque I think.

I can't possibly imagine how this building complex looks like when it's built. First of all, the hight is insane and when it's combined to the massiveness of this project... wow. That's so big that no matter where u are, u'll always see this. Not sure if it's too dominating, but it's really something.

BTW, are there any plans to expand the mosque?
yep go to makkah you will see new expanding in al safa & al marrwah next that in few years huge expand will be in the north yard of al haram,i will explain to you inshallah when i back.

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

Very sad indeed.

they shuld make it 600 m !!!!!!!!

lovely DreaM1981

Barbarians! The castle was much more important than one hundred of such high-rises. That was the History. Have not they any free places???

Barbarians! The castle was much more important than one hundred of such high-rises. That was the History. Have not they any free places???

The history is what is being built... and it's worth alot more than a mud castle!

"mud castle"....that is good :lol:

Big Ben...

...Parliament...


(Couldn't resist.)

These towers look terrible, because they have no personality.
Those look only enormous, with something large.:lol:

.....and really sad about the beautiful historical fortress.

sorry for off topic

Projects map (Marked 8 of 18)
Full Size (http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3710/makkahprojectsmapec8.jpg)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/990/makkahprojectsmapth3.jpg

for more pictures and infos visit Saudi forum
for full size click on pictures

Jabal Al Kabba
capacity 22977

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/kaba/kaba5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/kaba/ka5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/kaba/kaba4.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/kaba/ka4.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/kaba/kaba1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/kaba/ka1.jpg)

Jabal Omar (phase 1)
capacity 35145

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/omer/omr5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/omer/o5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/omer/omr4.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/omer/o4.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/omer/omr3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/omer/o3.jpg)

Al Shamyah
capacity 151164

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sham5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sh5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sham4.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sh4.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sham3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/sham/sh3.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sham1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/sham/sh1.jpg)

Ajyad Hospital
capacity 4495

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/AjiyahHsptl/ajyad5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/AjiyahHsptl/j5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/AjiyahHsptl/ajyad3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/AjiyahHsptl/j3.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/AjiyahHsptl/ajyad1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/AjiyahHsptl/j1.jpg)

Jabal Khindmah
capacity 22560

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khndmh/khndmh5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/khndmh/kh5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khndmh/khndmh4.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/khndmh/kh4.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khndmh/khndmh3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/khndmh/kh3.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khndmh/khndmh2.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/khndmh/kh2.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khndmh/khndmh1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/khndmh/kh1.jpg.jpg)

Drb Al Khalel
capacity 7956

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/9.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/Picture9.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/8.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/Picture8.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/6.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/Picture6.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/Picture3.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/khalil/Picture1.jpg)

West Gate
capacity 533306

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/king/king5.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/king/k5.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/king/king4.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/king/k4.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/king/king3.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/king/k3.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/king/king2.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/king/k2.jpg) http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/king/king1.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/king/k1.jpg)

Al Haram North yard Expansion
capacity 100,000 prayer

http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/sham/sham2.jpg (http://www.mpd.gov.sa/images/nlarg/sham/sh2.jpg)

its errr .....definately a landmark! I was wondering do the arabs have a problem with time or something? :)

the total among of investment in central area more than 24 billion$
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4028/dokaaeua3ex2.jpg

This is one disturbing picture... :nuts:

I can't possibly imagine how this building complex looks like when it's built. First of all, the hight is insane and when it's combined to the massiveness of this project... wow. That's so big that no matter where u are, u'll always see this. Not sure if it's too dominating, but it's really something.

Its similar in a way to ESB, except the size is like how many time bigger?

thx saudi guy for posting the project list...mecca is really booming

The history is what is being built... and it's worth alot more than a mud castle!

Yeah. So is the memorial at Ground Zero : two stupid holes. Such a waste of space.

(Eh, there is full of space around. Destroying the castle was no use.)

^^ castle was not real history. If you wanna talk about the real history then talk about the old houses around the kaaba which have been destroyed to increase number of pilgrimes since this place is for worship not tourism.

If these houses which are over than 1400 years old had been destroyed for new expansions of the holy mosque, so what about such useless castle?

Logically it should be demolished too.

These guys destroy their forefathers heritage and do not understand the tragedy of this. They are half-witted :(

^^ it was not our heritage...

^^ it was not our heritage...

It was absolutely your heritage, as it was heritage of the region and the Kaaba itself (the castle was created to protect the Kaaba). It is also not the only example. Have a read of post 670 for many more examples.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15082106&postcount=670

this castle was created to protect the Turkish solders if something went wrong...
so it's not belong there...and the Turks are not there any more...so,what do they want this castle for??!!!

Update, pic from September 26th:

highres (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1454580112&size=o)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1041/1454580112_7910cb9f31_b.jpg

ok its an interesting design but...OMG ITS TOO MASSIVE!!!

What do i see here in the title??? The Abraj Al-Bait changed height again???

Damn man first it was 477 or something meters like that and now into 595!!!???

Damn that is a hellish height increase!!

Good to see the updates. Keep them up i shall say!!!

Cheers :cheers1:

It was absolutely your heritage, as it was heritage of the region and the Kaaba itself (the castle was created to protect the Kaaba). It is also not the only example. Have a read of post 670 for many more examples.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15082106&postcount=670

Protect the Kaba from who? lol
For your information, the fortress was built to protect the Ottoman occupying soliders from the Arabs (us)! :bash:
I think that something like that should have been demolished back in the 1930s...

oh and wouldn't be smarter to build a wall around the Kaba to protect it!! lol ... if it was built to "protect" the Kaba!!!! :nuts:


Anyways, please don't use wikipedia articles to teach us about our own history...

ok its an interesting design but...OMG ITS TOO MASSIVE!!!

Well. The Islam is a big religion and every muslim ought to have visited Mecca once in his life time so Mecca is full off muslims and all those people got to stay somewhere.

That is why this thing is so big in the first place: To accomedate as much iff you can.

And off course being a prestige project off Saudi Arabia.

cheers Poshbakerloo :cheers:

Update, pic from September 26th:

the best place to take photos for AAB thanks dear:)

read the articles

''Castle retained full designs and details filmed after careful to rebuild elsewhere .''

''Turkey has not any effort to preserve the Islamic treasures which Serbia destroyed in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, most of the mosques and buildings with unique architectural type. Did not successive Turkish governments funded the restoration possible restoration of Islamic monuments after stop Serbian aggression. The records UNESCO attest that the Kingdom saudi Arabia is to have done so noble work.'' so why you care about it;)

All these arguments being made in support of Abraj Al-Bait are contradictory and ridiculous. Yes, pilgrims to Mecca obviously need a place to stay, but in this case it is being spent to show off wealth, which is forbidden. Since when do pilgrims "require" luxury accommodation, world class restaurants and a BOUTIQUE shopping mall?!

It's wrong to call something Al Bait 'The House' as in a reference to the Ka'aba when it revolves around money. What they should focus on is giving as many pilgrims a place to stay while providing them with sufficient amenities.

but it's not prohibited with Islam it's not our fault if other religions dose!

All these arguments being made in support of Abraj Al-Bait are contradictory and ridiculous. Yes, pilgrims to Mecca obviously need a place to stay, but in this case it is being spent to show off wealth, which is forbidden. Since when do pilgrims "require" luxury accommodation, world class restaurants and a BOUTIQUE shopping mall?!

It's wrong to call something Al Bait 'The House' as in a reference to the Ka'aba when it revolves around money. What they should focus on is giving as many pilgrims a place to stay while providing them with sufficient amenities.

very well said connected.this project somehow has some very uneasy undercurrents and to me is very controversial.not to mention it looks hideous next to the beautiful kaaba.

honestly guys it doesnt make any sense to have huge uber extravagant,monolithic structures hugging masjid-al-haraam.the saudis can build all the superlative stuff on the outskirts or away and provide a good integrated transport system for the pilgrims to make their journey from in and around mecca,but that calls for good city planning.what's goin on right now is haphazard construction.

honestly guys it doesnt make any sense to have huge uber extravagant,monolithic structures hugging masjid-al-haraam.the saudis can build all the superlative stuff on the outskirts or away and provide a good integrated transport system for the pilgrims to make their journey from in and around mecca,but that calls for good city planning.what's goin on right now is haphazard construction.


Agreed 100%, Even though i have nothing against the project...

honestly guys it doesnt make any sense to have huge uber extravagant,monolithic structures hugging masjid-al-haraam.the saudis can build all the superlative stuff on the outskirts or away and provide a good integrated transport system for the pilgrims to make their journey from in and around mecca,but that calls for good city planning.what's goin on right now is haphazard construction.

Yes! What's goin on right now is destructive city planning and criminal against history!
But I have nothing against this project out of historical surroundings.

ZZ-II, that picture of urs, WOW. Those towers look amazing. Are those people praying there or what? Looks pretty crowded to me. I've got an impression that in those towers there are men that "sing" or shout when it's time to pray, or something like that. Is that correct?

I think the main problem is that it tooooo close to the holy ground

Thanks Saudi guy for the map
Do you really hink the proposed expansion area for the mosque is large enough?
Maybe for the next 100-250 years, but after?:D

ZZ-II, that picture of urs

i don't took it :), only found it on Flickr

Let's go back to our topic again which is "The construction of Abraj Al-Bait project"

By the way, I heard that height has been increased again but sure I will not post the new height here untill I check the new design my self to be sure of the info.

Expect new height (few meters only) very soon inshallah (God willing) :lol:

By the way, I suggest the heighest 5 towers under construction should be sticky topic not only WTB.

If any tower moved from Proposed category to U/C category then the lower one should be removed from sticky list and the new tower takes its place.

Sure only U/C projects can be sticky. What do you think guys?

Most of visitors are checking heighest towers regulary.

again an increasing of the height? wow....now it is probably over 600m ^^

By the way, I heard that height has been increased again but sure I will not post the new height here untill I check the new design my self to be sure of the info.



You need to let us know whether is the new proposed height over 600m

don't worry he will tell us :lol:

i am sure the final hieght is clear for months and dream know it
he just wants to give it us in parts like in Series :D
But we wanna see the movie

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

terrible, absolutly terrible, too dominating and such a large structure towering over most holy place in Mecca artifcal man-made it show ignorance and pride more than anything else, how did this project even get permission?

Maybe it will look in real life better when finished but in the render it is way too big compared to the surrouding buildings... looks strange :no:

^^ Where is it in the Quran or the Sunna that says that this shouldn't be permitted?

It may not say so in any book but you don't need to read out of a book for common sense.

I am just surprised some are nonchalant about desecrating supposedly important sites. But hey, its your heritage even if you don't want to treat it as so...

It may not say so in any book but you don't need to read out of a book for common sense.

I am just surprised some are nonchalant about desecrating supposedly important sites. But hey, its your heritage even if you don't want to treat it as so...

Actually common sense would entail you to build HIGH very HIGH in Mecca since every square foot of land is perhaps one of the most expensive the world over.

The other thing is building HIGH and Massive in Mecca is not against the religion and culture of the region.

But I think many Muslims would agree that it would have been a better idea to build all this in the outskirts of the city..

Call it something like New Mecca City? and build whatever you want over there and have a subway that would connect to the Grand Mosque..

Actually common sense would entail you to build HIGH very HIGH in Mecca since every square foot of land is perhaps one of the most expensive the world over.

The other thing is building HIGH and Massive in Mecca is not against the religion and culture of the region.

But I think many Muslims would agree that it would have been a better idea to build all this in the outskirts of the city..

Call it something like New Mecca City? and build whatever you want over there and have a subway that would connect to the Grand Mosque..
thats it
Something like "New Mecca" with many towers etc would have been better

Here the old and new fights for the "centre".

^^ Where is it in the Quran or the Sunna that says that this shouldn't be permitted?

This is what I would expect if I had a lower IQ, your ridiculous comment isnt even worth a answer

thats it
Something like "New Mecca" with many towers etc would have been better

Here the old and new fights for the "centre".

I just hope the expansion is enough, but remember they need to add floors ontop of the marbled area. Perhaps add 7 floors?, There's 3 Floors already and perhaps the outer area can have 7? where today you find the open marble area?

This is what I would expect if I had a lower IQ, your ridiculous comment isnt even worth a answer
similar to ur smart comments about Bahrain? :lol:

Call it something like New Mecca City? and build whatever you want over there and have a subway that would connect to the Grand Mosque..

That is actully a better suggestion, why cant they make a actual city on the outskirts of the city made specificaly for this purpose, link it to the Grand Mosque in Mecca and have transport to move to and from the mosque and a city.

Building higher isnt the answer, using a bit of common sense and constructing something practical would be of better use and conveinient.

thats it
Something like "New Mecca" with many towers etc would have been better

Here the old and new fights for the "centre".

hmmmm naaa New Mecca doesnt sound good theres only one Mecca maybe they can call it kind of residential city or something but a grand idea!

similar to ur smart comments about Bahrain? :lol:

which happen to be TRUE!

It may not say so in any book but you don't need to read out of a book for common sense.

I am just surprised some are nonchalant about desecrating supposedly important sites. But hey, its your heritage even if you don't want to treat it as so...
I would've preferred if they haven't demolished any of those historical sites but saying odd reasons like this tower is too dominating has nothing to do with Islam.

Actually common sense would entail you to build HIGH very HIGH in Mecca since every square foot of land is perhaps one of the most expensive the world over.

The other thing is building HIGH and Massive in Mecca is not against the religion and culture of the region.

But I think many Muslims would agree that it would have been a better idea to build all this in the outskirts of the city..
..

I understand the land premiums and land crunch in and around the city and your solution is something I had in mind as a solution. Something that alleviates the problem while still paying deference and homage to the Mosque and not by putting an overbearing characture looming over it.

that is a good thought, we should really think of something like this and make some sort of city on the outskirts and like someone said link it via subway!

is it possible for madina also? have a airport and transit point close to mecca and madina make it more efficient so more pilgrims can come for hajj, saudi authoritys do great job during hajj time of that there is no doubt but population is growing and more and more people will want to attend hajj as more people get richer in Asia etc

not anyone can afford to live in such high class hotels, the rich are only thinking about themselves we need to make something for the type of people who come from far places africa and asia who cant afford much something practical for the majority

making such large expensive structure in my opinion wont change the rush so much, its a place for the rich average person wont be able to afford to stay in there the poor people save money whole lifetime to come to gods house expensive hotel booking is last thing they would want

I would've preferred if they haven't demolished any of those historical sites but saying odd reasons like this tower is too dominating has nothing to do with Islam.
Probably you never noticed it before, but this is a website about architecture and not about islam :bash:

Anyway, this building looks enormous now that is sorrounded by "normal" houses, but in a few years, when other dozens of towers in the area will reached the 200m, probably it will look different

You need to let us know whether is the new proposed height over 600m

hmmmm what to say, what to say....Ok, still not final or official but yes yes it is supposed to be over than 600 M height inshallah (God willing) :lol:

I think MECCA will have a hotel boom in future.

i'm sure it will look much better in reality than on the renders we saw.

hmmmm what to say, what to say....Ok, still not final or official but yes yes it is supposed to be over than 600 M height inshallah (God willing) :lol:

Great den, It will be classified as one of the hypertall or something haha


Anyway why do they keep increasing height? Was it because they are earning more and more revenue?


If this keep going higher and higher by the time this tower finish we may have a 700m+ structure on Mecca

Maybe it will look in real life better when finished but in the render it is way too big compared to the surrouding buildings... looks strange :no:

I've noticed the renderings for alot of skyscrapers are not a good looking as the real thing. There are a few skyscrapers I thought looked horrible with the renderings but came out fantastic in real life. I just hope they get rid of the stupid clock before it's too late. :runaway:

As for the people thinking it looks out of place or it's wrong to have something so close to the kabaa, I have a feeling people have often felt uneasy for anything being built close to the kabaa. Someone could argue that putting a electricity near the kabaa is a sin, or using electric lighting compared to torches was shameful. I even noticed there are some buildings around the area that are at least 10 stories tall, I bet people objected to those too. I think this building only adds value to the area and I notice religious people seem to think anything to do with signs of wealth is sinful but the reality is that getting to Mecca isn't free and you're gonna spend money when you get there. I'm not a religious person but I'll have to find a way to see this place someday even if I have to fake being Muslim.

If this keep going higher and higher by the time this tower finish we may have a 700m+ structure on Mecca

Be sure that it will never be 700M+ at all but yes It is supposed to be 600M+ inshallah (God willing)

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

In my opinion, in not too distant future the grand Mosque will be surrounded by multiples of 500m+ and numerous 200m+ skyscrapers and the grand Mosque itself shall be vertically expanded (to 15-storey perhaps).

The number of annual haj pilgrims would have more than quadrupled to exceed 10 million by then.

For visitors to Mecca, those skyscrapers are nothing more than what they are...tall buildings. The Kaaba will remain as the centre of attraction.

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

Holy shit, truly fugly, are the proportions really right in this render ? Disgusting ... :/

As for the people thinking it looks out of place or it's wrong to have something so close to the kabaa, I have a feeling people have often felt uneasy for anything being built close to the kabaa.

I won't join the religious discussion... doesn't matter if the Kabaa is near or not, the architects didn't keep in mind the urban development of the surrounding area. Amateurs, fools or investor-slaves, I don't know... :ohno:

^^ I don't know why we have to repeat ourselves here.

As Saudi_Guy mentioned before, this is a part of the new plan to makkah which will be surrounded by many new projects and many skyscrapers 200M+ plus the new extention of the holy mosque.

It looks huge here just cause the new projects just got approval from the saudi gov. and the work will start this year or next year maximum inshallah (God willing).

Again, it is a part of a new plan/image to makkah.

how could this be u/c but still no proper render?

anyway the latest render looks way. ....too biiiiigg! going to own big ben lol

OK, but why is there no rendering of the whole development? Didn't someone say 24 billion of investment... if that number is correct there should be enough money to make a good render and no Photoshop-SSC-stuff... ;)
Or is there a rendering? Haven't seen one...

how could this be u/c but still no proper render?

There are many renders for the old design but this new design (2007 design) is still new and here we started to see some new good renders as the one I just posted.

OK, but why is there no rendering of the whole development? Didn't someone say 24 billion of investment... if that number is correct there should be enough money to make a good render and no Photoshop-SSC-stuff... ;)
Or is there a rendering? Haven't seen one...

Actually, there is a render for each project but still I have not seen a render for all projects at once. as far I remember I have seen a render for a model of all new projects together in makkah but I do not remember where.

Then let's hope for mecca and all of it's inhabitants that all together will look better than this huge Big Ben on it's own...

^^ They are already building this building.

I find it a neccesaty to have these gigantic buildings in Mecca or else there isnt the capacaty to hold all off these people.

But from a personal point off view it is too dominate but sadly there isnt an other choise BUT to build them.

Cheers :cheers2:

I do not know why all are trying to compare this clock with big ben. any big clock should not be compared with big ben since big ben is not an expression to explain any big clock.

It is just the biggest clock right now and soon any big clock will be compared with "Makkah clock" not big ben inshallah (God willing).

Forget Big ben, the record will be brocken soon and this does not mean that someone is trying to make a new big ben. does dubai trying to make new sears tower or Paterons tower by building burj dubai? this is not logic for sure.

Makkah clock is new & big clock braking all old records and in holiest place of islam so, please let's stop the comparison between two different projects.

I do not know why all are trying to compare this clock with big ben. any big clock should not be compared with big ben since big ben is not an expression to explain any big clock.

It is just the biggest clock right now and soon any big clock will be compared with "Makkah clock" not big ben inshallah (God willing).

Forget Big ben, the record will be brocken soon and this does not mean that someone is trying to make a new big ben. does dubai trying to make new sears tower or Paterons tower by building burj dubai? this is not logic for sure.

Makkah clock is new & big clock braking all old records and in holiest place of islam so, please let's stop the comparison between two different projects.

Lol, and what's the point in "breaking all records" for "the biggest clock" ? :D

And it sure looks like big ben stuffed in the middle of a Stalinist building or something ... :/

I do not know why all are trying to compare this clock with big ben. any big clock should not be compared with big ben since big ben is not an expression to explain any big clock.

It is just the biggest clock right now and soon any big clock will be compared with "Makkah clock" not big ben inshallah (God willing).

Forget Big ben, the record will be brocken soon and this does not mean that someone is trying to make a new big ben. does dubai trying to make new sears tower or Paterons tower by building burj dubai? this is not logic for sure.

Makkah clock is new & big clock braking all old records and in holiest place of islam so, please let's stop the comparison between two different projects.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/195/500062954_86707104e4_b.jpg

They're quite similar, even if the Makkah royal hotel is bigger and has not a cross on its top I think they can be compared to each other

Yeah, it's probably time to shut down the religious arguments here, otherwise we'll go around and around and around about being "religious enough".

This project definitely could use some neighbor projects.

wow, this is not my favorite building by far......

They're quite similar, even if the Makkah royal hotel is bigger and has not a cross on its top I think they can be compared to each other

I am not talking about the looking, I am talking about intention of many people here who want to prove one thing "Makkah clock is just a copy of big ben".

I disagree with this statement 100% since the clock is just a clock and It can not be different at all since all clocks look like each other.

Makkah clock is not a copy paste of big ben clock (This is the conclusion which I wanna say).

are this realy going to be build???????:nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

Holy shit, truly fugly, are the proportions really right in this render ? Disgusting ... :/

Oh come on ... tell us what you really think! ;)

are this realy going to be build???????:nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

of course, the main tower is UC an already rising. look 1 or 2 pages back. i posted an construction pic from september :)

Now that Abraj Albait is taller than ever, I think Jabal Omar project should also follow and have one or two supertalls.

OK, but why is there no rendering of the whole development? Didn't someone say 24 billion of investment... if that number is correct there should be enough money to make a good render and no Photoshop-SSC-stuff... ;)
Or is there a rendering? Haven't seen one...

Jabal Omar Project
http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/6001.jpg

Shamiya Project
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Jabal%20Omar%20Project/P1020772.jpg

I am not talking about the looking, I am talking about intention of many people here who want to prove one thing "Makkah clock is just a copy of big ben".

I disagree with this statement 100% since the clock is just a clock and It can not be different at all since all clocks look like each other.

Makkah clock is not a copy paste of big ben clock (This is the conclusion which I wanna say).

OK, now i understand what you meant.
I was just comparing them about their looking

Now that Abraj Albait is taller than ever, I think Jabal Omar project should also follow and have one or two supertalls.
It will have 2 200m skyscraper connected on the top floors and a lot of other towers nearly 100m high.
At least this was the last project proposed, but I don't know if they accepted it or if it will change again

In my opinion, in not too distant future the grand Mosque will be surrounded by multiples of 500m+ and numerous 200m+ skyscrapers and the grand Mosque itself shall be vertically expanded (to 15-storey perhaps).

The number of annual haj pilgrims would have more than quadrupled to exceed 10 million by then.

For visitors to Mecca, those skyscrapers are nothing more than what they are...tall buildings. The Kaaba will remain as the centre of attraction.

It seems like more and more people are able to afford flying these days. Does the city of Mecca have an airport? I don't see one for flight simulator 2004.

It seems like more and more people are able to afford flying these days. Does the city of Mecca have an airport? I don't see one for flight simulator 2004.
I think the airport is in Jeddah, nearly 60Km away as far as i remember

It is wrong urban planning what Saudi-Arabia is doing and disrespectful against Kaaba.No building in such a great height should be done in direct of the Kaaba.It is like the Building is looking down to Kaaba.Also people will sleeping in this hotel.It means the people are in higher position than the kaaba.Also it is forbidden that the Quran book is under the girdle.It must stay in a higher position.If they would done Abraj Al-Bait only 1000meters far
away from Kaaba it would be no problem.But not in direct of Kaaba.

It is wrong urban planning what Saudi-Arabia is doing and disrespectful against Kaaba.No building in such a great height should be done in direct of the Kaaba.It is like the Building is looking down to Kaaba.Also people will sleeping in this hotel.It means the people are in higher position than the kaaba.Also it is forbidden that the Quran book is under the girdle.It must stay in a higher position.If they would done Abraj Al-Bait only 1000meters far
away from Kaaba it would be no problem.But not in direct of Kaaba.

okay, you are either kidding or stupid...

I'm with Heavenly Sword on this one.

The ABraj Al-Bait is a flashy and bold architectural expression. It is a materialistic distraction in a place of spiritual importance.

How could your prayers reach the Heavens when that building is blocking half the sky?

When you search the Heavens looking for meaning, you do not want to be reminded that checkout is at 11 tomorrow morning.

IMo the main aim is was to create a big shadow for the pilgrims around the Kabaa

okay, you are either kidding or stupid...

You can´t argument.Only can say stupid.What is about the shadow of the building.It will completly cover the Kabaa.The pilgrims won´t see the sun.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Mecca_skyline.jpg/648px-Mecca_skyline.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/10/Kaaba_at_night.jpg/800px-Kaaba_at_night.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/Makkeh.jpg/800px-Makkeh.jpg

http://www.weinheimer-moschee.de/Islam/Das_Gebet/kaaba_back2.jpg

BISMILAHIRAHMANIRAHIM

How could your prayers reach the Heavens when that building is blocking half the sky?

if someone asked God something,God will hear it even if we're doing " scopa diving".... :)

guys,,this things are like landmark for the city of Makkah,and if you dont know guys there is people living in Makkah and I think they want there city to have many landmarks and unique stuff and to be one of the best cities in the world."I think they have the right to think about that like everyone else"
so what's wrong if they had the largest clock in the world?or a high scrapers?
I think they have the right to do what ever will satisfy them "unless it's against the Islamic rules"
and as I know there is nothing in Islam telling not to build scrapers around the holy mosque.
and for the people who tried to involve the religious side in Makkah's developments project...I dont think you are butter than the holy mosque IMAMs..I think if there is something wrong with it (from the religious perception) or even if they didn't like the project location (as a responsible persons)..they will stop it..
so don't relay on that weak point to prove your point of view,,
btw, I think everyone can see this clock from a distance of 40 km!!!

People aren't against the tower
Its just about his location.

I would have prefer the mosque as a landmark with his high minarets

One day mankind will be able to move towers and i am sure one of the first ones will be this one :D

What is about the shadow of the building.It will completly cover the Kabaa.The pilgrims won´t see the sun.

Seems you did not visit kaaba recently and that is why you are talking about shadow covering the kaaba completely!! The holy mosque's area is bigger than Abraj Al-bait's area many times and you do not feel at all that such project covering the kaaba.

Abraj Al-bait is higher than the holy mosque but as I said above, its square area is less than the holy mosque.

How could your prayers reach the Heavens when that building is blocking half the sky?


I don't want to make fun of your comment. I respect your point of view but as all know and in all religions, nothing can block your prayer except your sins not huge building or bridge. It is not a mobile network :lol:

The holy mosque's area is bigger than Abraj Al-bait's area many times and you do not feel at all that such project covering the kaaba.

its looks about the same size mate.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

at this rate, that day will come when people go to Mecca for a holiday to look at the skyscrapers.

Area of Abraj Al-Bait = 190,000 square meter

Area of the holy mosque = 366,168 square meter

It is double without the new extention of the holy mosque which is going to add approximatly 160,000 square meter plus the new extention of Safa and marwa which is already under construction now and called "King Abdullah project for extension of the Masa'a".

Talking in numbers makes sense not only looks!! isn't it?

^^^^^^^^^^:lol:

Does Saudi-Arabia have a Chamber of Architects?

Does Saudi-Arabia have a Chamber of Architects?

judging by this structure clearly not!

I asked because our Chamber of Architects in Istanbul is against towers at the bosphorus or near the histirical peninsula (Blue Mosque, Haghia Sophia etc.)
So they do not give the permission or went to court.
Actually you need also the permission of the monument committee.

Whoever deceided to make this ugly looking creature towering so high obvoiusly didnt think that is why so many dont like the thing

in that part of the world history means nothing they build for the sake of building, my problem isnt so much with the buildings its the location that is the issue

You can´t argument.Only can say stupid.What is about the shadow of the building.It will completly cover the Kabaa.The pilgrims won´t see the sun.
and whats so wrong in shadowing the Kabaa?

Area of Abraj Al-Bait = 190,000 square meter

Area of the holy mosque = 366,168 square meter

It is double without the new extention of the holy mosque which is going to add approximatly 160,000 square meter plus the new extention of Safa and marwa which is already under construction now and called "King Abdullah project for extension of the Masa'a".

Talking in numbers makes sense not only looks!! isn't it?

When talking about shadow implications, footprint is not the main factor. The main factor is vertical area. The "Bin Laden Monstrosity" (IE the Abraj Al-Bait) will have massive shadowing, given its huge and out of proportion massing. What a shame.

and whats so wrong in shadowing the Kabaa?

Actually IMO it could be one of the main reason :D

It would be better for the pilgrim to be in the shaddow.
How warm is it in Mecca? 45°C?

arguing about silly stuff

You can´t argument.Only can say stupid.What is about the shadow of the building.It will completly cover the Kabaa.The pilgrims won´t see the sun.


LOL... so?
Do you really think that pilgrims must see the sun?

The irony here is that most pilgrims try to avoid the sun pay praying in the covered areas espeically during the summer time.

And for your infomration, the Saudi government is thinking of ways to cover the main area of the grand mosque. Probably building more supertalls would be a good idea!

This is I belive one of the proposals,
http://i5.tinypic.com/4m9h1yo.jpg

^^

Now that looks pretty cool.

they want to make a circus?
fantastic europeans can make now more jokes about islam :nuts: :bash:

Circus?
Looks more like the Circuit in Malaysia IMO

NAy pics of the future mosque?

I don't want to make fun of your comment. I respect your point of view but as all know and in all religions, nothing can block your prayer except your sins not huge building or bridge. It is not a mobile network :lol:

^^ :lol: :lol:

even if abraj al bait was 1000000 mile high it can't cover sunshine form Al kaba use Compass al Kaba in north side of abraj al bait;) and about who said sleeping higher than al kaba honestly i Laughed when i read it maaan what would you say about all that small old houses above the Mountains?

even if abraj al bait was 1000000 mile high it can't cover sunshine form Al kaba use Compass al Kaba in north side of abraj al bait;) and about who said sleeping higher than al kaba honestly i Laughed when i read it maaan what would you say about all that small old houses above the Mountains?

I'm having a somewhat tough time deciphering what you are saying. I take it you support the "Bin Laden Monstrosity" (a.k.a. abraj al bait)??

while i do understand the needs for space, but again does islam really encourage this kind of luxury things??? did the prophet and sahaba live in this kind of luxury??? why was the prophets house so small and simple??? I think in islam you are allowed to be rich, but you are surely not allowed to be living in this kind of lavish lifestyle when your fellow people even around Makkah are begging on the streets. I think the fairness, justice and equality which islam stands for is not shown here at all. This is the first time in the history of Makkah where you will have such a huge divide between the rich and poor.

also why build a mall with all western stores in Makkah, do the pilgrims really need to shop there during there holy journeys? Makkah doesn't seem like a holy place anymore, i went there in 2005 and i was really dissapointed as it didn't really feel holy at all.

Might as well allow westerners and non muslims to the place, its already ruined.

But i think these are all the signs of the End, if you guys believe in it that is.

The city mecca has wrong urban planning.Has Mecca no Chamber of Architects????? why they dont destroy all buildings around kaaba and make beautiful parks,lakes,gardens and fountains around it to give the city a more relax feeling.And they also can make a big square infront of Kaaba and in mecca.The buildings in mecca and city planning is catastrophal :ohno: .It don´t fits with the 21th century.

The city mecca has wrong urban planning.Has Mecca no Chamber of Architects????? why they dont destroy all buildings around kaaba and make beautiful parks,lakes,gardens and fountains around it to give the city a more relax feeling.And they also can make a big squares infront of Kaaba and in mecca.The buildings in mecca and city planning is catastrophal :ohno: .It don´t fits with the 21th century.

talking is easy
in reality those people owning land around kaaba wont sell their lands. and nobody can force them.

But it looks like the houses around it will be destroyed for other projects

talking is easy
in reality those people owning land around kaaba wont sell their lands. and nobody can force them.

The Kingdom give the owning people land and houses in another place.It is so easy.

This is I belive one of the proposals,
http://i5.tinypic.com/4m9h1yo.jpg

This is not a proposal, It is already got approved and work is supposed to be started after finishing the extension of safa & Marwa. I think now people will start making fun and claim that these tents are going to stop the prayer from going up or these tents will decrease the enjoyment of the worship. Anyway, People like to complain and reject any new stuff without deep thinking.

I take it you support the "Bin Laden Monstrosity" (a.k.a. abraj al bait)??

Please don't try to use this useless card. The Binladen Group which you are making fun of it is one of largest and most known contractors in the word and built many large construction projects not only Abraj Al-bait which is the largest construction project in world, it also built The holy mosque in Makkah which you dream to go there to worship Allah, The prophet's mosque (PBUH) in madinah, Sharjah airport, Boeing hangers in Riyadh airport, American Univ. in sharjah, Al Faisaleya tower, Sharm Al-shikh airport in egypt, extention of cairo airport, king abdullah economic city, tabuk airport, plaza tower in dubai, kulu lampour airport in malaysia and many other projects in Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Syria, Egypt, Malaysia, UAE .......etc (this is the contractor you are making fun of it).

also why build a mall with all western stores in Makkah, do the pilgrims really need to shop there during there holy journeys?

There are no stores inside the holy mosque which is logic and well known. The stores are outside for sure so what don't you like if there are western or eastern store? Makkah is a city and has citizens who live there (millions) and they need stores, parks, resturants and everything unless if you want to kick people out from it except pilgrimes. This is not logic at all.

If the goods which are being sold there are allowed islamically then what is stopping the gov. from giving permissions to these stores to work there?

Some like shopping after worship, Some like to worship 24 hours daily, some even go just for sins and fun. Each one will be judged according to his intention.

But it looks like the houses around it will be destroyed for other projects

Yes houses around will be destroyed for extention of the holy mosque and also for many new projects to provide good standard living for pilgrimes.

The Kingdom give the owning people land and houses in another place.It is so easy.

Is it easy to pay billions of dollars ? It is not easy and it is one of main obstructions the gov. is facing to start work on any new project or extension. 1 square meter = 350,000$ infront of the holy mosque so imagine if you are going to destroy almost 500 square meter or more.

Is it easy to pay billions of dollars ? It is not easy and it is one of main obstructions the gov. is facing to start work on any new project or extension. 1 square meter = 350,000$ infront of the holy mosque so imagine if you are going to destroy almost 500 square meter or more.

Man Saudia-Arabia has the richest oil fields of the world.Are they so poor.It is easy to pay USA millions of dollars to keep their military bases in Saudi-Arabia.It is easy to pay million of dollars for terrorism and wahabism all around the world.But it is not easy to make an urban development project around kaaba :nuts: .Yeah that is Saudi-Arabia.Millions of pilgrims come to mecca every year.They deserve a first class city with a first class service and hosting.That is why Mecca need a good planned city with a modern urban development project.But the first thing you think is MONEY :nuts:.

^^ there are no american bases in Saudi..... you idiot..

stop please :ohno:

^^ there are no american bases in Saudi..... you idiot..

Now i understand why westerners calling arabs backward.....Saudi Arabia pays USA money and USA protect them.Can´t built their own army.Do you know why Islam came to Saudi-Arabia???Because the people there were the most backward and catastrophal people in the world in those times.Till jet nothing has changed.Americans call them sand-nig*ers.

^^ keep editing... you still dont make any sense proving my previous point about you...

Sorry, as a Christian I can't go to Mecca, I think, but I really can't stand looking this orrible building... I mean, it's so close to the most important place for a Muslim, it stands on the Kaaba, and i think it'll get its shadow on it...how can it be possible?how in the world they could have given the permission to build this building?it looks like a fat and taller Big Ben...it's totally out of place, if I were a Muslim I'd be really angry! and, moreover, aren't there any ancient buildings around?

how in the world they could have given the permission to build this building?

Because in Mecca there is nothing like "Chamber of Architects".

yeah, they all must be here in Italy... I couldnt put the solar energy panels on my house's roof 'cause it's a medieval one, and those panels "spoil the beauty of an ancient building"!!!come on!!!
By the way, why should they ruin such a nice zone? it's the same thing with the coverage proposed for the Great Mosque, it ruins the beauty of the building...when i think at the biggest examples of Muslim architecture, i think at The Alabaster Mosque, those in Uzbekistan, Marrakech, the Alhambra in Granada and if i think of those new things, well, it's kinda disappointing. Are you aware you're ruining your own heritage?

More hatred...

Again and again... topic has been changed to "location, Saudi Government, Makkah and kaaba". This project is for construction work only and not for useless comments

hay dream i nots there constriction on Dar Al Towhed,do you know anything about it?

This is not a proposal, It is already got approved and work is supposed to be started after finishing the extension of safa & Marwa. I think now people will start making fun and claim that these tents are going to stop the prayer from going up or these tents will decrease the enjoyment of the worship. Anyway, People like to complain and reject any new stuff without deep thinking.



Please don't try to use this useless card. The Binladen Group which you are making fun of it is one of largest and most known contractors in the word and built many large construction projects not only Abraj Al-bait which is the largest construction project in world, it also built The holy mosque in Makkah which you dream to go there to worship Allah, The prophet's mosque (PBUH) in madinah, Sharjah airport, Boeing hangers in Riyadh airport, American Univ. in sharjah, Al Faisaleya tower, Sharm Al-shikh airport in egypt, extention of cairo airport, king abdullah economic city, tabuk airport, plaza tower in dubai, kulu lampour airport in malaysia and many other projects in Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Syria, Egypt, Malaysia, UAE .......etc (this is the contractor you are making fun of it).



There are no stores inside the holy mosque which is logic and well known. The stores are outside for sure so what don't you like if there are western or eastern store? Makkah is a city and has citizens who live there (millions) and they need stores, parks, resturants and everything unless if you want to kick people out from it except pilgrimes. This is not logic at all.

If the goods which are being sold there are allowed islamically then what is stopping the gov. from giving permissions to these stores to work there?

Some like shopping after worship, Some like to worship 24 hours daily, some even go just for sins and fun. Each one will be judged according to his intention.



Yes houses around will be destroyed for extention of the holy mosque and also for many new projects to provide good standard living for pilgrimes.



Is it easy to pay billions of dollars ? It is not easy and it is one of main obstructions the gov. is facing to start work on any new project or extension. 1 square meter = 350,000$ infront of the holy mosque so imagine if you are going to destroy almost 500 square meter or more.

dude you are wrong. Makkah and Medina were never suppose to be normal cities. They were suppose to holy cities. Why did you think that the prophet said no non muslims should be allowed there???
The basic idea is not too have any influence other then islamic influence in the city.

This thread is degenerating.

^ i think as long as its civil discussion it should be ok.

by the way, what does Abraj Al-Bait means? wasn't bait meaning "home"?

how can it be possible?how in the world they could have given the permission to build this building?

I think it demonstrates the power the Bin Laden family has in Saudi Arabia. The Bin Ladens are de facto leadership in Saudi Arabia, and they are the ones building these things ... hence the name "Bin Laden Monstrosity".

It is important to note the Wahabi Theocracy, which by definition states that any other interpretation of Islam is invalid. That is precisely the reason the Saudis / Bin Ladens are not listening to the majority Muslims (let alone others) on projects such as this. The cultural angle, which has also come up on this thread, is also an interesting one. The Arabs are a very small minority within the Muslim world, yet because the Kaaba is within their political boundaries (and the optics towards the West given the oil) they are seen as something more. This 'small man syndrome' results in them doing things just to irritate the majority of the Muslim world. They play politics and power with religion - very sad indeed.

by the way, what does Abraj Al-Bait means? wasn't bait meaning "home"?

Abraj Al-Bait" = The Towers of Mecca"... Al-Bait is one of the names of Mecca.

It is important to note the Wahabi Theocracy, which by definition states that any other interpretation of Islam is invalid. That is precisely the reason the Saudis / Bin Ladens are not listening to the majority Muslims (let alone others) on projects such as this. The cultural angle, which has also come up on this thread, is also an interesting one. The Arabs are a very small minority within the Muslim world, yet because the Kaaba is within their political boundaries (and the optics towards the West given the oil) they are seen as something more. This 'small man syndrome' results in them doing things just to irritate the majority of the Muslim world. They play politics and power with religion - very sad indeed.

Your last part of this post makes perfect sense well written! Muslims population in world is like over 1 billion, Saudi arabians are only 20 million ish yet they seem to think they dont need permission to building something at worlds and muslims most holy place

its shows thier ignorance, self pride and greed all of which is forbiden in islam

all they can come up with is "where does it say in quran u cant make big buildings"--old Arab knowledge and archetcture is long gone

they wanted to knock down Ottoman time parts to extend Kabba good thing the Turkish intervened.

I think it demonstrates the power the Bin Laden family has in Saudi Arabia. The Bin Ladens are de facto leadership in Saudi Arabia, and they are the ones building these things ... hence the name "Bin Laden Monstrosity".

It is important to note the Wahabi Theocracy, which by definition states that any other interpretation of Islam is invalid. That is precisely the reason the Saudis / Bin Ladens are not listening to the majority Muslims (let alone others) on projects such as this. The cultural angle, which has also come up on this thread, is also an interesting one. The Arabs are a very small minority within the Muslim world, yet because the Kaaba is within their political boundaries (and the optics towards the West given the oil) they are seen as something more. This 'small man syndrome' results in them doing things just to irritate the majority of the Muslim world. They play politics and power with religion - very sad indeed.

dude this is arab land, and has been for ever since time existed. so thats the not issue. My only issue is they should not allow haraam influences in the two holy cities. They are building most of these places for the need of space which is good. But last time i went to Makkah i saw many things the should not be in a holy city.

^^ Actually my point is that anyone who says that the Bin Laden family is the de facto leadership in Saudi Arabia does not know anything about Saudi Arabia ..... Is it clear now? I guess the question should be directed to you ;)


PS: who's talking about trolling?

This is what i got from wikepedia:
"The bin Laden family (Arabic: بن لادن), also spelled bin Ladin, is a rather wealthy family intimately connected with the innermost circles of the Saudi royal familys'

dude this is arab land, and has been for ever since time existed. so thats the not issue. My only issue is they should not allow haraam influences in the two holy cities. They are building most of these places for the need of space which is good. But last time i went to Makkah i saw many things the should not be in a holy city.

I think Hugh Hefner should open up an nude Playboy strip club inside this building, that would be sweet.


On a more serious note, does anyone have any picture updates for this building? I'd love to see how it's coming along. Also I'd be willing to fast for a day if that will change someones mind about putting the clock on the tower. The clock has to go.

I think Hugh Hefner should open up an nude Playboy strip club inside this building, that would be sweet.


On a more serious note, does anyone have any picture updates for this building? I'd love to see how it's coming along. Also I'd be willing to fast for a day if that will change someones mind about putting the clock on the tower. The clock has to go.

How about I urinate in ur eye? Would that be sweeeeeeeet?

El Retardo El perfecto!

How about I urinate in ur eye? Would that be sweeeeeeeet?

El Retardo El perfecto!

Actually that would be kinda salty. :cheers:



Edit:

It looks like they already have a clock on another building near the kabaa. Does anyone have an idea when that "highrise" was built?

http://i20.tinypic.com/r73pes.jpg

I wonder if alot of people were against building that as well. Photo courtesy of chinx786 from flickr on August 2, 2007.

That building looks enormous on the render!

LOL, I thought it would be acidic? how'd u manage to taste it ? or did u Wiki?

LOL, I thought it would be acidic? how'd u manage to taste it ? or did u Wiki?

Ok, true story, when I was like 3 or 4 years old I was curious and got a nasty taste of it while taking a bath once. For some reason I thought it would taste like apple juice. :lol: .....:ohno:

^^ sick minds :lol:

Actually that would be kinda salty. :cheers:



Edit:

It looks like they already have a clock on another building near the kabaa. Does anyone have an idea when that "highrise" was built?

http://i20.tinypic.com/r73pes.jpg

I wonder if alot of people were against building that as well. Photo courtesy of chinx786 from flickr on August 2, 2007.

:ohno: :ohno:

This is what i got from wikepedia:
"The bin Laden family (Arabic: بن لادن), also spelled bin Ladin, is a rather wealthy family intimately connected with the innermost circles of the Saudi royal familys'

I hate to get back to politics but what are you implying with this?
Do you know that there hundreds of families that are connected with the royal family? If you are backing up the idiot, do you know what "de facto" means?

i am not backing him up but bin laden are connected to the royals. The royal family have given the bin laden exclusive rights to build what ever they want for it's profits in Makkah.

Is there really no "comitee" or department, government office where you need to get a permission for projects etc?

I dont think so^ there is no people concensus. only the bin ladens decide what to do.

I dont think so^ there is no people concensus. only the bin ladens decide what to do.

That's not true..

There's Mecca Development Commission,
http://www.mpd.gov.sa/

And Makkah Municipality,
http://www.holymakkah.gov.sa/

And the Emarah of Mecca,
http://www.makkah.gov.sa/

I hate when some people talk without any background. Do you know how many families are connected to the royal family?

Let's count, Al Olayyan Group, Al Rajhi Group, Zamil Group... etc

About permissions, Yes you can not build any building in saudi without permission and as far I know, Abraj Al-bait got approval for this height.

Binladen group wanted to increase the height of the wings of abraj al-bait project but government refused but they approved the increasing of height of the hotel which is the main tower.

Edit:

It looks like they already have a clock on another building near the kabaa. Does anyone have an idea when that "highrise" was built?

http://i20.tinypic.com/r73pes.jpg

I wonder if alot of people were against building that as well. Photo courtesy of chinx786 from flickr on August 2, 2007.

That is the Hilton hotel, built nearly 10-15 years ago

Was the first "important" building in Makkah
Anyone has links, pics or more info about it?

Newsflash: Rich people are always connected to people in power. It helps you get rich, and it helps you stay rich.

That is the Hilton hotel, built nearly 10-15 years ago

Was the first "important" building in Makkah
Anyone has links, pics or more info about it?

Here's the website: http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/MAKHITW-Makkah-Hilton-Towers/index.do

Very interesting. I wonder if we'll ever see Paris Hilton there.

I dont think so^ there is no people concensus. only the bin ladens decide what to do.
wooooooow
dubai3000 tell us more and more things that you know about our country :lol: :lol:
you know things that even us (the Saudis) don't know about :nuts:
but it is not acceptable from a great, smart and wise person like you to trust a "weaki" resources :nono:

Actually, My Uncle is responsible for all the Math departments in Jeddah and he himself claims of corruption and lack of transparency in public admin. Apparently the royal family provides a lot of resources to help construct schools and what not but they end up being pocketed by the people that are responsible for its construction.

Soon this holy place would look like a small boy surrounded by the big thugs... what a bad thing, i'm just trying to figure how it'd fit the St. Peter's Basilica with 500mts skyscrapers around and...Oh God!!!PS sure that the Mecca development commission members are Bin Ladens too?? have to say that, seen from the great mosque, this building doesn't seem as bad as before, simply it's out of place!

dude ^ its because space that is needed. Makkah gets more pilgrims then any city in the world. So this is a much needed thing.

That said again i only think this project would benifit the rich, most people wouldn't get benifet, that the only thing i dont like about the project.

wooooooow
dubai3000 tell us more and more things that you know about our country :lol: :lol:
you know things that even us (the Saudis) don't know about :nuts:
but it is not acceptable from a great, smart and wise person like you to trust a "weaki" resources :nono:

bro what i am saying is does the government really ask the people of Makkah what they want? i dont think so. These decisions are only made by the people in government and the construction is done by bin laden group. I think true democracy is needed in especially in deciding whats going to happen in Makkah and Medina.

Soon this holy place would look like a small boy surrounded by the big thugs... what a bad thing, i'm just trying to figure how it'd fit the St. Peter's Basilica with 500mts skyscrapers around and...Oh God!!!PS sure that the Mecca development commission members are Bin Ladens too?? have to say that, seen from the great mosque, this building doesn't seem as bad as before, simply it's out of place!

Look, Makkah has always been a religious sanctuary ALONG with being a CITY. The present day situation of the cities infrastructure is horrible. And although i agree that all this could have been built further away, I don't mind all this construction to replace whatever surrounds the mosque today. I dont know people realize this but a building collapsed last year? right adjacent to the holy mosque.


Now Im sure there are many ways to expand the Holy mosque so that it doesn't need to engulf the area around it for instance building floors maybe 7 of them? around the open marbled area and on the site of new expansion.


Eventually if the grand mosque needs to be expanded these buildings will be bulldozed and it wont be a bad thing because the profits that are earned from the construction of them are to go to the maintenace of the holy mosque anyways

OK, I don't really mind this type of discussion but when it degrades into namecalling it's time to stop. It seems a lot of you people can't handle someone else's opposing viewpoint without insulting them.
Because of that this discussion won't be allowed in this thread anymore.
I've created a new thread especially for that topic here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=15709579#post15709579) where you can discuss this. It's more of a general issue in the city anyway as opposed to just this one project. All new posts about this that pop up here will be moved to the new thread

Look, Makkah has always been a religious sanctuary ALONG with being a CITY. The present day situation of the cities infrastructure is horrible. And although i agree that all this could have been built further away, I don't mind all this construction to replace whatever surrounds the mosque today. I dont know people realize this but a building collapsed last year? right adjacent to the holy mosque.


Now Im sure there are many ways to expand the Holy mosque so that it doesn't need to engulf the area around it for instance building floors maybe 7 of them? around the open marbled area and on the site of new expansion.


Eventually if the grand mosque needs to be expanded these buildings will be bulldozed and it wont be a bad thing because the profits that are earned from the construction of them are to go to the maintenace of the holy mosque anyways

sure, i know a huge amount of people reaches mecca every year, and especially in a few months, but what about the national heritage?maybe around there are some, and shouldn' they deserve to be preserved through the years?about the fact that the town needs to expand itself, well, the Arabic peninsula doesn't seem so crowded, isn't it?

sorry for bad Quality.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/681/p1060044sm9.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060044sm9.jpg) http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/2473/p1060046du6.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060046du6.jpg) http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3932/p1060047co1.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060047co1.jpg) http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7761/p1060049ct6.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060049ct6.jpg) http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1490/p1060051ls1.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060051ls1.jpg) http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/314/p1060060fb1.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060060fb1.jpg) http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9554/p1060062fp5.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060062fp5.jpg) http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5091/p1060063ux8.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060063ux8.jpg) http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5782/p1060064bv4.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060064bv4.jpg)

is that the main tower in the 4th pic?

sorry ZZ-II i didn't take photos for royal tower i was tired but i tried to go behind abraj al bait to take great phtos for hajer,zamzam and royal tower but believe me these area in behind was the worst place i ever seen in my whole live i don't know how people live there,most of them was Pakistanis and they was looking at me!!!anyway maybe i go there soon after 4 days.

Al Safa & Hajer towers (two left)
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/2473/p1060046du6.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060046du6.jpg) http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3932/p1060047co1.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060047co1.jpg)

Sarah tower(left wing)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7761/p1060049ct6.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060049ct6.jpg)

the mall
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1490/p1060051ls1.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060051ls1.jpg)

Marowah,zamzam and Maqam towers (Right towers & wing)
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/314/p1060060fb1.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060060fb1.jpg) http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9554/p1060062fp5.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060062fp5.jpg) http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5782/p1060064bv4.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1060064bv4.jpg)

^^

Thanks for the update Saudi guy. The building is styled very nicely.

New render:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg


my first thought was OMFG it looks taller than the surrounding mountains

Second was: how the hell are you going to be able to read the time with a clock tower 500m in the sky?

^^^ yeah i know it must be hard

sorry ZZ-II i didn't take photos for royal tower i was tired

no problem ;)

How come i can tell the time from the render which appears to be quite far LOL..

actually, I really like this building, it is really magnificent and imposing. Abraj Al-Bait might dwarf its nearby buildings and being criticized for being too dominant, but once it is finished, I think it will be a classic for ages to come

This is actually a good update picture. It's recent (last week) and you can clearly see Makkah Royal rising in the middle...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1041/1454580112_7910cb9f31_b.jpg

So is the new height confirm?

595m has been confirmed as far as i know

beautiful, I love the design and the whole beautiful environment, with the Ka'aba etc.. :)

Second was: how the hell are you going to be able to read the time with a clock tower 500m in the sky?

Dont be silly, of course you could read the time, the clock face is huge.

595m has been confirmed as far as i know

New height as in the rumored one which was suppose to hit more than 600m

it must be the highest non full glass facade tower?!

yes, i don't know any taller project with a non full glass facade

wow, very nice building,
beutifull