http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2580/23359162.jpg

Last updates almost 3 weeks back

March 15 2006

in front

http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/e7/7310e5d36c3f5e0cdedef854df0b98e7.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132418/picture-hosting/dsc-05280.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/fd/d173e7c89a9e34a242f68659fedceffd.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132437/picture-hosting/dsc-05281.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/91/e426a0f70a681b746ce9b5cb36ba7b91.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132440/picture-hosting/dsc-05282.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/9f/c2b9d4bd4e77b836a6393f2f9db1609f.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132442/picture-hosting/dsc-05285.php)

inside al haram

http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/ef/ffd44e3fb9d3d206a3049cdd0d1786ef.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132458/picture-hosting/dsc-05290.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/ff/5e5817c2be7740ecd22da4ac660bd7ff.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132461/picture-hosting/dsc-05291.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/7a/99ac18bf50816fb789f330f4bacee27a.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132475/picture-hosting/dsc-05293.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/72/e6be30796da7da7cced6d90eac2bc572.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132480/picture-hosting/dsc-05297.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/82/30bd970a4640083becd39060229fa382.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132487/picture-hosting/dsc-05300.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/40/679147531e6b88850a4be3e127638940.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132489/picture-hosting/dsc-05303.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/e9/57f3655b3bb562a9c0ffc9de9aee96e9.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132501/picture-hosting/dsc-05308.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/09/e5f0ee8b4357cb2a2e31103b5ca31309.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/132504/picture-hosting/dsc-05312.php)

engoy

Ugly!

It doesn't look nearly as massive in the new renders as it did in the old.

it doesn't fit at all. no proportion. too huge.

I wish that only the tallest tower was built...the surrounding ones are a visual nuisance.

I like it. Its something different than the other buildings going up around the World.

Apart from the Islamic touches, it's almost like the older and newer grand & very tall palace-like structures in Moscow. Loving the finer details and the construction pics by Saudi guy are wonderful. :okay:

unreal

This is just what a city like Mecca needs.

With that much people

not really beatiful

Beautiful and humongous project!

Quite unique and good for Isalamic city.

what will it be used for?
as an office building or as a hotel?

^^ As hotel to house some of the millions of pilgrims that go there every year.

^^^^Well, it will be one of the biggest hotels in the world.^^^^.

Looks like a 170 m hotel

Why do people have so much against this project, it is probably the ONLY supertall uc in the world right now that is NEEDED. Burj Dubai and SWFC may be more attractive, but in terms of pure practicallity, this is IT. Mecca gets the most ridiculous ammount of pilgrims each year, and it is not a massive area. To house these people that come from all over the world, hotels are needed, and they need to be BIG.

And its not unattractive or totally random, it fits in very well with the architecture in the area, and will be a stunning landmark when complete.

^^

Great points, I agree 100%. Like you said, it fits really well with the surrounding architecture of the area.

i like it

WOW! thats gr8 news for Makkah.
Love it.

looks awesome, the view from there at night will be beautiful. When is the middle tower going UC?

April 9, 2006 :

From Flickr
http://static.flickr.com/46/126239171_9e004d08a6_o.jpg

i dont like the fact that its soooooo close to the Holy Mosque

April 9, 2006 :

From Flickr
http://static.flickr.com/46/126239171_9e004d08a6_o.jpg


That's awesome. It blends into the area really well. Also it's much easier to tell which towers are going up with this picture. Really puts it in perspective.

It will overpower the beauty of the mosque and cast too large of a shadow on the mosque

^depending on sun plane. is albait south or north of mosque?looks awesome, the view from there at night will be beautiful. When is the middle tower going UC?
question on everybodys lips.

I think the middle tower is U/C, look at those 2 crains right in the middle of the complex.

It will overpower the beauty of the mosque and cast too large of a shadow on the mosque


The shadow could be a good thing. If it's really hot out there you would want to be under a shadow.

It will overpower the beauty of the mosque and cast too large of a shadow on the mosque


Are you Shia?

I have never heard anything positive about Saudi Arabia come out of you ever.

Don't look at the structure as a Salafi creation, If you have ever visited Makkah you would know the city is in dire need of built up area and infrastructure improvements.

It only makes sense for Makkah to grow vertically, each square meter of Makkah is worth more than any part of the world.

It is because of pure demand that they must build up vertically, Makkah is a remote area with Hills and Mountains everywhere, and with every square meter costing more than it does in Hong Kong it is only natural to build up.

I think the middle tower is U/C, look at those 2 crains right in the middle of the complex.

Yea I was thinking about the same thing, while looking at the picture.

The shadow is not exactly a bad thing. In Saudi Arabia most people prefer the shade since it is usually well over 40 degrees and the shade provides some welcome cooling.

i dont like the fact that its soooooo close to the Holy Mosque
actually, It's not that close to the Mosque but as it's really MASSIVE AND TALL ,that's why it looks too close. :)

Its unique. I really like it.

I think the Saudi Govt should have tried to clear more circular space around the mosque to account for growing numbers of pilgrims in the future. I hope this tower is being constructed at a large distance from the mosque.

I think the middle tower is U/C, look at those 2 crains right in the middle of the complex.
when i see a core above podium, then i will be convinced. ;-)

it is very beautiful and attractive, very islamic , suitable to the area

It only makes sense for Makkah to grow vertically, each square meter of Makkah is worth more than any part of the world.

It is because of pure demand that they must build up vertically, Makkah is a remote area with Hills and Mountains everywhere, and with every square meter costing more than it does in Hong Kong it is only natural to build up.
So we could expect more interesting projects in the future?

distructive wahibbies. nice project very wrong spot. Me as a non muslim have more respect for islam that the al saud family.

distructive wahibbies. nice project very wrong spot. Me as a non muslim have more respect for islam that the al saud family.

Im not against the project but im against building palaces and skyscrapers on historically important places such as Abraj al-bait is built over the Ajyad castle according to a business newspaper.

distructive wahibbies. nice project very wrong spot. Me as a non muslim have more respect for islam that the al saud family.


If you knew anything about Islam you would know they are Salafis not Wahhabi's,

And you as a non-Muslim do not have a right to meddle in Muslim affairs, as its been repeated a million times Makkah MUST build vertically..

How does it make sense to have 3 story buildings in a city that is worth more than any other PER SQUARE METER... With remote moutains surrounding the whole area.

It boggles the mind as to why they haven't built Vertically from before??

And you as a non-Muslim do not have a right to meddle in Muslim affairs, as its been repeated a million times Makkah MUST build vertically..
That is a silly sentiment. Next time someone posts something I don't like on a Miami thread I'll spew out "non-Miamians do not have a right to meddle in Miami affairs" and see how far tht gets me. Anyhow, I like the building.

So we could expect more interesting projects in the future?

Here are the "interesting" projects :):
(They've been around for a while now)

Jabal Omar Project
-Seven 35-storey apartment towers
-Two 50-storey hotel towers
-Four 15-storey hotel blocks
-4 storeys Retail concourse

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/81.jpg

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/301.jpg

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/201.jpg

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/601.jpg

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/401.jpg

http://www.jabalomar.com/images/photos/6001.jpg

http://www.hadeer.com/asp/projects/uploads/Houssam/2005-06-05_022624_jabal_omar_03.jpg

http://www.hadeer.com/asp/projects/uploads/Houssam/2005-06-05_022722_jabal_omar_04.jpg

http://www.hadeer.com/asp/projects/uploads/Houssam/2005-06-05_022820_jabal_omar_05.jpg

http://www.hadeer.com/asp/projects/uploads/Houssam/2005-06-05_022518_jabal_omar_02.jpg

Jabal Khandamah Project

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_4.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_5.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_6.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_8.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_1.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_2.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_3.jpg

http://www.dpz.com/images/popop_page/Illustrative_z.jpg

http://www.dpz.com/images/popop_page/AerialView2_z.jpg

http://www.dpz.com/images/popop_page/MainAvenue_z.jpg

http://www.innovators.com.sa/i/project_details/ud/ud_khandama_7.jpg

Le Merdien Towers
http://www.amjad.com.sa/mtowers/images/m-t.jpg

http://www.amjad.com.sa/mtowers/admin/Meridien%20images/large/n2.jpg

Sahmiyah Project
http://www.makkah-development.gov.sa/hcm/4/4-3/shamiah/1.jpg

Al Abrar Towers
http://www.gulfconstructiononline.com/source/xxvi/12/images/M-Abrar.jpg

Saudia Tower
(Outer Makkah)
http://www.saudire.com/images/pege/porg/a2.gif

And there are many other projects with towers from 25 to 35 floors but I cant find any pictures/renders of them. One of those project is the Ajyad Hospital Tower, Jabal Kabaa Project, etc.

It's becoming a Mecchattan. ;)

That is a silly sentiment. Next time someone posts something I don't like on a Miami thread I'll spew out "non-Miamians do not have a right to meddle in Miami affairs" and see how far tht gets me. Anyhow, I like the building.


Actually, He was making an almost value judgement based on "Wahhabi" principles not knowing jack of what they stand for. He was claiming to be on a higher moral ground than Salafis that he terms as Wahhabis.

I know where your coming from, but would you want Non-Catholics to dictate terms of the Vatican?

Oh I see. I didn't know what a wahhabi or a salafi was. I'm going to wiki them right now. As for the Catholic church... they can probably use some PR and marketing consultants.

Im just kidding, BTW. I don't mean to taint this thread with religious arguments. VC15NETS, that was a great post. I have never seen those developments and they are right next to Abraj Al-Bait. Very cool. The middle eastern style is really unique, they don't build single buildings over there, they build skylines. I really like it, though some of the buildings seem a bit boring. They could be spruced up a bit.

DGM. Wahhabis tend to refuse the "wahhabi" label, since the whole concept of wahhabism is one of a 'return to the origins' and of 'purifying religion from all the add-ons' so to speak, i.e. they are against the idea of 'sects' in islam, so it is really natural that they refuse being called a sect. preferring instead the term 'salafi' (originalist, a la Scalia).
That is usually how I know a Wahhabi, when he says: "there is no such thing as wahhabism."
However, most people (in and outside the Muslim world) refer to the branch of Islam originating in Najd, and affected by the ideas of 18th century preacher M. Ibn `abdel Wahhab as "Wahhabism".
And I agree, the point that "non-moslems should not speak about moslems" is totally silly.
And the statement "distructive wahabis" (sic), is offensive to people of that faith and should not be used with such generalization... just like saying: "dirty X" (use whatever group).

That's very grand and ambitious project indeed. it wil turn Mecca to be more massive city.

DGM. Wahhabis tend to refuse the "wahhabi" label, since the whole concept of wahhabism is one of a 'return to the origins' and of 'purifying religion from all the add-ons' so to speak, i.e. they are against the idea of 'sects' in islam, so it is really natural that they refuse being called a sect. preferring instead the term 'salafi' (originalist, a la Scalia).
That is usually how I know a Wahhabi, when he says: "there is no such thing as wahhabism."
However, most people (in and outside the Muslim world) refer to the branch of Islam originating in Najd, and affected by the ideas of 18th century preacher M. Ibn `abdel Wahhab as "Wahhabism".
And I agree, the point that "non-moslems should not speak about moslems" is totally silly.
And the statement "distructive wahabis" (sic), is offensive to people of that faith and should not be used with such generalization... just like saying: "dirty X" (use whatever group).


Actually no, To call Salafis "Salafis" and not "Wahhabis" does not make a person a Wahhabi. I am no where close of being a Salafi but recognize the fact that it is more respectable and politically correctly to term them as Salafis rather than "Wahhabis"

But I agree with everything else in your post.
Respect always wins in this world whether you like it or not.

UFO SHUT UP WANNA BE PERSIAN GULF ARAB!

First when I see this pic...
http://www.hadeer.com/asp/projects/uploads/Houssam/2005-06-05_022722_jabal_omar_04.jpg
....first came to mine mind was, I can imagine what it will like in another 30 years when the future civilization discover this..

UFO SHUT UP WANNA BE PERSIAN GULF ARAB!


The Holy City of Mecca has nothing to do with the Gulf nations you close minded fool, Arabs are not the only Muslims in this world.

Arabs = only 15% of muslims

i don´t like that urbanism, very dense to me (sorry ;)

fowl. tacky looks like a disneyland for arabs.

Arabs = only 15% of muslims

yea that could be higher

yea that could be higher


Well at the rate Arabs are procreating they could soon become 25% of all Muslims from 15% :lol:

Hey smussuw that's cheating!! HAHAHA

Shame of the House of Saud: Shadows over Mecca

Previously unseen photographs reveal how religious zealots obsessed with idolatory have colluded with developers to destroy Islam's diverse heritage. By Daniel Howden
Published: 19 April 2006
There is a growing shadow being cast over Islam's holiest site. Only a few metres from the walls of the Grand Mosque in Mecca skyscrapers are reaching further into the sky, slowly blocking out the light. These enormous and garish newcomers now dwarf the elegant black granite of the Kaaba, the focal point of the four million Muslims' annual Haj pilgrimage.

The tower blocks are the latest and largest evidence of the destruction of Islamic heritage that has wiped almost all of the historic city from the physical landscape. As revealed in The Independent last August,the historic cities of Mecca and Medina are under an unprecedented assault from religious zealots and their commercial backers.

Writing in response to the article, Prince Turki al-Faisal said that Saudi Arabia was spending more than $19bn (£11bn) preserving and maintaining these two holy sites. "[We are aware] how important the preservation of this heritage is, not just to us but to the millions of Muslims from around the world who visit the two holy mosques every year. It is hardly something we are going to allow to be destroyed."

This rebuttal sits at odds with a series of previously unseen photographs, published today, that document the demolition of key archaeological sites and their replacement with skyscrapers.

Saudi religious authorities have overseen a decades-long demolition campaign that has cleared the way for developers to embark on a building spree of multi-storey hotels, restaurants, shopping centres and luxury apartment blocks on a scale unseen outside Dubai. The driving force behind this historical demolition is Wahhabism * the austere state faith that the House of Saud brought with it when Ibn Saud conquered the Arabian peninsula in the 1920s.

The Wahhabis live in fanatical fear that places of historical or religious interest could give rise to alternative forms of pilgrimage or worship. Their obsession with combating idolatry has seen them flatten all evidence of a past that does not agree with their interpretation of Islam.

Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, the chairman of the Islamic Heritage Foundation, set up to help protect the holy sites, says the case of the grave of Amina bint Wahb, the mother of the Prophet, found in 1998, is typical of what has happened. "It was bulldozed in Abwa and gasoline was poured on it. Even though thousands of petitions throughout the Muslim world were sent, nothing could stop this action."

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."

Lay people, and in some cases even US senators could be forgiven for thinking that the House of Saud has been the guardian of the two holy places for time immemorial. In fact, it is only 80 years since the tribal chieftain Ibn Saud occupied Mecca and Medina. The House of Saud has been bound to Wahhabism since the 18th century religious reformer Mohamed Ibn Abdul-Wahab signed a pact with Mohammed bin Saud in 1744. Wahab's warrior zealots helped to conquer a kingdom for the tribal chieftains. The House of Saud got its wealth and power, and the clerics got the vehicle of state they needed to spread their fundamentalist ideology around the world. The ruler of this fledgling kingdom needed the legitimacy afforded by declaring himself " custodian of the two holy places".

But that legitimacy has come at an enormous price for the diversity of Muslims who look to Mecca for guidance. Once in charge, the Wahhabists wasted little time in censoring the Haj. As early as 1929, Egyptian pilgrims were refused permission to celebrate the colourful Mahmal rites and more than 30 were killed. At the time Egypt severed diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. Few governments have stood up to them since.

Instead, the homogenisation of Islam's holiest sites was allowed to accelerate into a demolition campaign that now threatens the birthplace of the Prophet itself. The site survived the early reign of Ibn Saud 50 years ago when the architect for the planned library persuaded the absolute ruler to allow him to preserve the remains under the new structure. Saudi authorities now plan to "update" the site with a car park that would mean concreting over the remains.

"The al-Sauds need to rein in the Wahhabists now," warns Dr Yamani. "Mecca used to be a symbol of Muslim diversity and it needs to be again." But with oil prices and profits, at record highs, there is little sign the House of Saud is listening.

Sami Angawi, a Hijazi architect who has devoted his life to a largely doomed effort to preserve what remains of the history of the world's greatest pilgrimage sites, said that the final farewell to Mecca was imminent. " What we are witnessing are the last days of Mecca and Medina."

Mecca's skyline

Giant cranes and half-constructed skyscrapers tower over the Grand Mosque in Mecca. Six new property developments, including the Bin Laden group's Zam Zam Tower, are transforming the character of Islam's holiest city

ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

Mountain of light

The mountain of light, or al-Nour, is next in the Wahhabis' sights. Home to the Hira'a cave, it was here that the Prophet is said to have received the first verses of the Koran. Hardline clerics want it destroyed to stop pilgrims visiting. At the foot of the hill there is a Wahhabi fatwa: " The Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) did not permit us to climb on to this hill, not to pray here, not to touch stones, and tie knots on trees..."

ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

The Prophet's wife's grave

The ruins in the foreground are the remains of the grave of the Prophet's wife, Al Baqi, destroyed in the 1950s. The mutawi religious police are present night and day to prevent anyone placing flowers on the site, or even praying in the proximity of the graves

THE ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

Al Oraid Mosque

The 1,200-year-old mosque, site of the grave of the Prophet's grandson al-Oraid, is seen here being dynamited. Gathered around the site are Saudi religious police with their distinctive red scarves, who appear to be celebrating

THE ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

There is a growing shadow being cast over Islam's holiest site. Only a few metres from the walls of the Grand Mosque in Mecca skyscrapers are reaching further into the sky, slowly blocking out the light. These enormous and garish newcomers now dwarf the elegant black granite of the Kaaba, the focal point of the four million Muslims' annual Haj pilgrimage.

The tower blocks are the latest and largest evidence of the destruction of Islamic heritage that has wiped almost all of the historic city from the physical landscape. As revealed in The Independent last August,the historic cities of Mecca and Medina are under an unprecedented assault from religious zealots and their commercial backers.

Writing in response to the article, Prince Turki al-Faisal said that Saudi Arabia was spending more than $19bn (£11bn) preserving and maintaining these two holy sites. "[We are aware] how important the preservation of this heritage is, not just to us but to the millions of Muslims from around the world who visit the two holy mosques every year. It is hardly something we are going to allow to be destroyed."

This rebuttal sits at odds with a series of previously unseen photographs, published today, that document the demolition of key archaeological sites and their replacement with skyscrapers.

Saudi religious authorities have overseen a decades-long demolition campaign that has cleared the way for developers to embark on a building spree of multi-storey hotels, restaurants, shopping centres and luxury apartment blocks on a scale unseen outside Dubai. The driving force behind this historical demolition is Wahhabism * the austere state faith that the House of Saud brought with it when Ibn Saud conquered the Arabian peninsula in the 1920s.

The Wahhabis live in fanatical fear that places of historical or religious interest could give rise to alternative forms of pilgrimage or worship. Their obsession with combating idolatry has seen them flatten all evidence of a past that does not agree with their interpretation of Islam.

Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, the chairman of the Islamic Heritage Foundation, set up to help protect the holy sites, says the case of the grave of Amina bint Wahb, the mother of the Prophet, found in 1998, is typical of what has happened. "It was bulldozed in Abwa and gasoline was poured on it. Even though thousands of petitions throughout the Muslim world were sent, nothing could stop this action."

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."

Lay people, and in some cases even US senators could be forgiven for thinking that the House of Saud has been the guardian of the two holy places for time immemorial. In fact, it is only 80 years since the tribal chieftain Ibn Saud occupied Mecca and Medina. The House of Saud has been bound to Wahhabism since the 18th century religious reformer Mohamed Ibn Abdul-Wahab signed a pact with Mohammed bin Saud in 1744. Wahab's warrior zealots helped to conquer a kingdom for the tribal chieftains. The House of Saud got its wealth and power, and the clerics got the vehicle of state they needed to spread their fundamentalist ideology around the world. The ruler of this fledgling kingdom needed the legitimacy afforded by declaring himself " custodian of the two holy places".
But that legitimacy has come at an enormous price for the diversity of Muslims who look to Mecca for guidance. Once in charge, the Wahhabists wasted little time in censoring the Haj. As early as 1929, Egyptian pilgrims were refused permission to celebrate the colourful Mahmal rites and more than 30 were killed. At the time Egypt severed diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. Few governments have stood up to them since.

Instead, the homogenisation of Islam's holiest sites was allowed to accelerate into a demolition campaign that now threatens the birthplace of the Prophet itself. The site survived the early reign of Ibn Saud 50 years ago when the architect for the planned library persuaded the absolute ruler to allow him to preserve the remains under the new structure. Saudi authorities now plan to "update" the site with a car park that would mean concreting over the remains.

"The al-Sauds need to rein in the Wahhabists now," warns Dr Yamani. "Mecca used to be a symbol of Muslim diversity and it needs to be again." But with oil prices and profits, at record highs, there is little sign the House of Saud is listening.

Sami Angawi, a Hijazi architect who has devoted his life to a largely doomed effort to preserve what remains of the history of the world's greatest pilgrimage sites, said that the final farewell to Mecca was imminent. " What we are witnessing are the last days of Mecca and Medina."

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.


Funny how the person that wrote this article probably has absolutely no idea about what the needs are like when it comes to infrastructure in the City. There is a DIRE need to build high and massive as stated before for obvious reasons.

As sad as this sounds neither of the above aformentioned sites have a purpose in the pilgramage to the Holy city of Mecca or religious significance. Would I rather have Abu Bakr's house instead of a Hilton? Ofcourse!! but does it hurt Islam in not having it? I don't think so....

From my knowledge the arch-rivals of "Wahhabis" being "Shia's" are against the recent construction boom in makkah. From my knowledge Shia Muslims detest all this development. They number 10% of the religion and so far most Sunni's have not been too bothered by it and are looking forward to the development 90%.

First of all whats the source for that article?

Secondly yes it is sad i guess that some of the sites had to be destroyed but what people outside of he religion do not understand is that in Islam progess is crucial. All progress is acceptable as long as it does not hinder peoples belief in god.

From an Islamic perspective, people like the prophets mom are just regular people. Infact the prophet himself is seen as just a regular person (or atleast supposed to be seen). And people have built over many billions of peoples graves. Why should this be any different when through Islams eyes all humans are equal.

And also those sites have nothing to do with Islam. The sunni sect of Islam (the one that makes up more than 90% of the muslim population) do not believe in shrines commemorating anthing besides god. Thus in sunni eyes, every building except for mosques and the kabbah itself is just another building and if it stands in the way of progress, its ok to demolish it.

Actually Zaki I think preservation of some sites that can be deemed as cultural is not a bad idea, but as you state it is not against the religion of Islam to demolish them at the same token.

But you have to understand that when King Fahd's burial site was left unmarked as a commoner to many people around the world it boggled the mind. Islamic ideals and principles of equality are not easily understood to people outside the religion.

People the prophet knew and his family are considered "Model Muslims", like the Sahaba's they are good to model yourself after due to their knowledge and proximity to the prophet.

However by no means are they divine, It is only the prophets themselves that are to have their knowledge preserved as they were the messengers.

That's the understanding behind all this construction boom , I dont know if people get it? but if you don't understand what's being said its no big deal.

Islam = equality - hardly!

As a gay man i find the intolerance of religions intolerable!

those projects are incredible!!!, i like how they blend a little with the native architecture

oh god!!! why does every fuc*** thread that has either the word arab or muslim in it has to become a religious argument???

bcz we have too much oil in our backyards and we ride our camels too fast.

Islam = equality - hardly!

As a gay man i find the intolerance of religions intolerable!

Thank you for your comment Mr. Gay Man, but now back to the topic.

I can't believe Suadies are building such an ugly tower beside Holy Kabaa. How can they do this without asking us? Mecca doesn't belong to Suadies, Mecca belongs to whole Muslims as a gift from Allah.

I can't believe they do this...

Amazing projects

This is awesome project indeed.

bcz we have too much oil in our backyards and we ride our camels too fast.


:cheers:
dont forget the rolls royce covered in gold;)

I can't believe Suadies are building such an ugly tower beside Holy Kabaa. How can they do this without asking us? Mecca doesn't belong to Suadies, Mecca belongs to whole Muslims as a gift from Allah.

I can't believe they do this...

oh sorry about that, it turns out that we don't have the phone numbers of all the 1 billion muslims in the world. We really need to update our phone book :bash:



Now let us stick to the topic. Let us have at least one page with no politics or religion discussion!

those projects are incredible!!!, i like how they blend a little with the native architectureThey blend in more than "a little with the native architecture"?? I would say a lot, considering the Islamic architectural features.

Thank you for your comment Mr. Gay Man, but now back to the topic.That was a bit of a snide comment re "Thank you for your comment Mr. Gay Man" Oh well, whatever :dunno:

Anyway. looking forward to more updated construction pics of the Abraj Al-Bait project :okay:

I can't believe Suadies are building such an ugly tower beside Holy Kabaa. How can they do this without asking us? Mecca doesn't belong to Suadies, Mecca belongs to whole Muslims as a gift from Allah.

I can't believe they do this...


not only that..the b*st**ds are destroying all the holy landmarks..they're plannin to take down the birthplace (house) of our Holy Prophet and several others

not only that..the b*st**ds are destroying all the holy landmarks..they're plannin to take down the birthplace (house) of our Holy Prophet and several others


Who gives a shit? Religion is a fucked up institution anyway.

From what I'm seeing here, a citly like Mecca is way overdue for some new buildings and renovations. If no one ever build anything new you'd probably have the "holy" tent Mohammed stayed in and nothing else.

^Who are you to judge the beliefs of others? I highly doubt any more than a fraction of the people who vist Mecca (which are there because of their Muslim faith in the first place) are any more "fucked up" than you are. Most probably don't have the anger issues either.

Grow up and get some understanding. At least recognize the difference between a bad religion and those who do bad things in the name of said religion.

^^

Hey it's just my opinion, you can take it or leave it.

If no one ever build anything new you'd probably have the "holy" tent Mohammed stayed in and nothing else.

Maybe that's what's needed in the world. I would assume that the point of making a pilgrimage was mainly spiritual, not to be pampered in a 5 Star Hotel and Spa and pretend like you're gaining enlightenment.

:2cents:

^^

Hey it's just my opinion, you can take it or leave it.

I'm sure many other bigots justify themselves that way too.

Impresive, skyscrapers are so trendy these days can see:) Hotels, shopping malls, money makers everywhere. What a wonderfull global village :P Welcome to the club Mecca.

Impresive, skyscrapers are so trendy these days can see:) Hotels, shopping malls, money makers everywhere. What a wonderfull global village :P Welcome to the club Mecca.


All proceeds of the Abraj Al Bait and Jabal Omar Towers project go into the maintenance and expansion of the Holy Mosque.

Who gives a shit? Religion is a fucked up institution anyway.


I have to say I agree although I would not condemn anyone practicing it. :) :baeh3: :angel1:

All proceeds of the Abraj Al Bait and Jabal Omar Towers project go into the maintenance and expansion of the Holy Mosque.


Mashalla, the project looks wonderful. I have personally been to the site during Hajj and it is HUGE. It easily dwarfs the Hilton tower and the Intercon. I dont know if anyone posted this info before: but Makkah law places a strict height limit to any height below the minaret of the Holy Mosque. But the tallest tower in Abraj Al Bait is intended to be the tallest minaret in the world at 485 m! Therefore, this project is indeed within the height limit.

Mashalla, the project looks wonderful. I have personally been to the site during Hajj and it is HUGE. It easily dwarfs the Hilton tower and the Intercon. I dont know if anyone posted this info before: but Makkah law places a strict height limit to any height below the minaret of the Holy Mosque. But the tallest tower in Abraj Al Bait is intended to be the tallest minaret in the world at 485 m! Therefore, this project is indeed within the height limit.Mecca's Holy Mosque, and I am/we are gathering you mean this one, will not have the tallest minarets but a spire taking it to the full height of its 485m/1,591 ft. An Islamic crest tops the spire, taking it to the full 485m/1,591 ft.

BTW, This is a similar Islamic crest which will go atop:

..........................http://bullion-crest.com/images/00226%20Muslim_Chaplain.jpg

how many times does this thread need to be changed into another subject? :bash:

how many times does this thread need to be changed into another subject? :bash:


....about 53 times. :runaway:

deleted
any updates?

http://images5.pictiger.com/thumbs/c1/aabbc81bf916253c9f9dc1f5606ceec1.th.jpg (http://server5.pictiger.com/img/256374/picture-hosting/rendring.php)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :badnews:
ARE THEY CREAZY NO ONE HERE ALLOWED TO USE HELOCAPTER :mad2: :mad2:

yeah they are crazy.

WTF ???

Is this the new design or a bad joke??

No fukin way is that the new design. If that is I am starting and international campaign against this defacing of the holy land.

The old design was much better

wow they better not change the design, the one before was perfect...

Hell no!!! :weird: :gaah: :rant: :no: >( :dunno: :nono: :down: :bleep: :mad: :wtf: :mad2: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

ARGHH...these arab dudes have lost the plot :rofl:

http://images5.pictiger.com/thumbs/c1/aabbc81bf916253c9f9dc1f5606ceec1.th.jpg (http://server5.pictiger.com/img/256374/picture-hosting/rendring.php)

Source plz.

What is already built looks almost nothing like this drawing above, but everything like the original high quality renders.

Mecca's Holy Mosque, and I am/we are gathering you mean this one, will not have the tallest minarets but a spire taking it to the full height of its 485m/1,591 ft. An Islamic crest tops the spire, taking it to the full 485m/1,591 ft.

BTW, This is a similar Islamic crest which will go atop:

..........................http://bullion-crest.com/images/00226%20Muslim_Chaplain.jpg

where do you get that crescent is an Islamic sign?

btw this whas mecca 120 years ago, this picture whas taken by the order of II Abdülhamid Han the Ottoman emperor:

http://zaman.com.tr/2006/04/25/kultur.jpg

where do you get that crescent is an Islamic sign?

btw this whas mecca 120 years ago, this picture whas taken by the order of II Abdülhamid Han the Ottoman emperor:

http://zaman.com.tr/2006/04/25/kultur.jpg

the crecent as far as i know was a byzantium symbol that was later adopted by Islam as its symbol when byzantium was conquered since it worked well as a symbol as many of the events in Islam are based on the position of the moon.

the crecent isnt holy in Islam, just another symbol

Here is a cool pic of the area, mekkah is beautiful, can't wait to visit it...
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8942/makkah2ht.jpg

Whoa!!! amazing shot!!

Wow, that is an awesome shot.

The whites area is the combination all white garments worn by pilgrims.
Amazine picture !

Actually, the white is the marble. You can see the pilgrims around the Kabah.

Any updates? I would be interested to know whether infact the design has been altered or not..

:baaa:

the tower they are building there is a complete waste of time

my opinion

the tower they are building there is a complete waste of time

my opinion

Why do you think so?

Why do you think so?


well its there just to look imposing, but it has no economic importance at all. Its hardly going to make the developers money is it?

well its there just to look imposing, but it has no economic importance at all. Its hardly going to make the developers money is it?


HAHAHAHA Hilarious stuff.

Your just gonna have to read this thread to get the answer to that question

well its there just to look imposing, but it has no economic importance at all. Its hardly going to make the developers money is it?

yeah, dude. its not meant to make the developers money. It does have importance, given the huge number of pilgrims, and lack of space in the city. But I do agree with you in that I feel its way to imposing. Seriously...When I go there I want to pay attention on praying and the actual Kabaa, not drooling over the towering skyscraper lol

how large is that big white area

the tower they are building there is a complete waste of time

my opinion

This is the only major tower currently underconsttruction which is a requirement, not a status symbol. millions of people make their pilgrimages here every year, and it is about as small as a city can get. Without building tall people will not be able to fit in mecca, it is essential to mecca that they can support the growing number of pilgrimages. If you take the quote above and post it on any thread in construction section its fine, yet here is the one place where it is not a waste of time or money.

They should build a second Mecca somewhere in the suburbs.

well its there just to look imposing, but it has no economic importance at all. Its hardly going to make the developers money is it?
dude, this is the only skyscraper of this size in the world that is not being built for willy waving.

Here is a cool pic of the area, mekkah is beautiful, can't wait to visit it...
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8942/makkah2ht.jpg
Where's Al Bait Towers on this image?

pic's taken in 6 may 2006

front
http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/6e/89e1f705166a47664ac76a755a01d76e.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/329342/picture-hosting/dsc-05508.php) http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/0d/7337581ac5249c1286fc4b56f4bb820d.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/329350/picture-hosting/dsc-05509.php)

http://images3.pictiger.com/thumbs/58/82c1bfd5bb5ea4de58850c1655506858.th.jpg (http://server3.pictiger.com/img/322221/picture-hosting/dsc-05513.php) http://images3.pictiger.com/thumbs/13/f1f97cd95d0fe927b4098057b00efc13.th.jpg (http://server3.pictiger.com/img/322255/picture-hosting/dsc-05515.php)

in left side
http://images5.pictiger.com/thumbs/e4/88f3387b696377ff64f3b44c0978f2e4.th.jpg (http://server5.pictiger.com/img/327597/picture-hosting/dsc-05521.php) http://images3.pictiger.com/thumbs/44/0abbfd7705842f48aef09ff7a9979544.th.jpg (http://server3.pictiger.com/img/322262/picture-hosting/dsc-05522.php) http://images3.pictiger.com/thumbs/d2/13c702d3e9f81b478f303669600cefd2.th.jpg (http://server3.pictiger.com/img/322263/picture-hosting/dsc-05523.php)

OMG those are so awesome!! Thank you so much Saudi Guy, ive been waiting for updates for a long time now :D

Have you got any news on whether or not the mention of a redesign is legitimate or not?

great pictures, any chance of getting some at day

Have a look at Google Earth - they have just added hi-res pics of Mecca, Dubai, and others. You can clearly see the construction of this building now. Google Maps has not yet been updated with the new imagery.

http://www.mts.net/~fengshui/images/al-bait.jpg

I can't see any progress on this one!!! :down: :down:

No sign of the center tower going up yet?

I do NOT oppose Mecca getting a skyline (and a sweet skyline at that) but they should've created a specific hi-rise district in another part of the city: better planning was needed for this. The area around the Mosque should remain clear for future expansion (Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world) It would be so easy for the Saudi govt to install subways/LRT's to serve the pilgrims and locals instead of building these hi-rise hotels right next to the Kaaba to be "close at hand". Hajj and Umrah are meant to be hard wearing, exhaustive, and ultimately, life-changing experiences. That's the point of pilgrims exclaiming "Labaik, Allahumma, Labaik!" ("Here I am, oh God! Here i am!") in joy when they finally see the Kaaba. Coming from the cool confines of a nice hotel and then just stepping in the front door of the mosque and saying that sorta takes the biscuit.

In short the Abraj sure are nice, BUT are wayy too near al-Masjid-al-Haram imho. I (and millions of Muslims around the world who don't have the luxury of having the Qibla of Qiblas (the Kaaba) in their backyards) would've prefered the area around this Holy site to be somewhat "preserved" if not left clear for future expansion of the Mosque without the issue of possible cramming; the density in Mecca is thick enough, as u can see from Google Earth.

You make very good points and I am of the same opinion..

I do NOT oppose Mecca getting a skyline (and a sweet skyline at that) but they should've created a specific hi-rise district in another part of the city: better planning was needed for this. The area around the Mosque should remain clear for future expansion (Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world) It would be so easy for the Saudi govt to install subways/LRT's to serve the pilgrims and locals instead of building these hi-rise hotels right next to the Kaaba to be "close at hand". Hajj and Umrah are meant to be hard wearing, exhaustive, and ultimately, life-changing experiences. That's the point of pilgrims exclaiming "Labaik, Allahumma, Labaik!" ("Here I am, oh God! Here i am!") in joy when they finally see the Kaaba. Coming from the cool confines of a nice hotel and then just stepping in the front door of the mosque and saying that sorta takes the biscuit.

In short the Abraj sure are nice, BUT are wayy too near al-Masjid-al-Haram imho. I (and millions of Muslims around the world who don't have the luxury of having the Qibla of Qiblas (the Kaaba) in their backyards) would've prefered the area around this Holy site to be somewhat "preserved" if not left clear for future expansion of the Mosque without the issue of possible cramming; the density in Mecca is thick enough, as u can see from Google Earth.


:applause: :applause:

This is what I call an objective post, clearly a model poster

I agree with you 100%

I like it, and it has a good purpose. It will look like an immense palace when completed.

^^ As hotel to house some of the millions of pilgrims that go there every year.

wow.. right in the very front of the shrine?

can you believe it total amount Project's around al haram +18 bilion$

^^^Oh! Gosh! That's very much though.

wow.. right in the very front of the shrine?

well first of all its a mosque not a shrine and second of all, ya sure, why not? As long as you don't break down the mosque its fine. To muslims, everything around there was built by humans and on top of that built without any religious purpose thus making them just another building.

I do NOT oppose Mecca getting a skyline (and a sweet skyline at that) but they should've created a specific hi-rise district in another part of the city: better planning was needed for this. The area around the Mosque should remain clear for future expansion (Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world) It would be so easy for the Saudi govt to install subways/LRT's to serve the pilgrims and locals instead of building these hi-rise hotels right next to the Kaaba to be "close at hand". Hajj and Umrah are meant to be hard wearing, exhaustive, and ultimately, life-changing experiences. That's the point of pilgrims exclaiming "Labaik, Allahumma, Labaik!" ("Here I am, oh God! Here i am!") in joy when they finally see the Kaaba. Coming from the cool confines of a nice hotel and then just stepping in the front door of the mosque and saying that sorta takes the biscuit.

In short the Abraj sure are nice, BUT are wayy too near al-Masjid-al-Haram imho. I (and millions of Muslims around the world who don't have the luxury of having the Qibla of Qiblas (the Kaaba) in their backyards) would've prefered the area around this Holy site to be somewhat "preserved" if not left clear for future expansion of the Mosque without the issue of possible cramming; the density in Mecca is thick enough, as u can see from Google Earth.


I agree 100%, very well said.

I almost forget about this project, any recent updates???

hehehe, i was waiting for someone to bump this thread :P

In the last week I've read in the news that maby in the nearest future the christians and jews will be allowed to visit Meccah.
First, I trully wish it will some day be possible because Meccah does seems very interesting place, and ofcourse the undergoing tower construction makes it even more tempting :)

Oh really!?!? Can you post a source please? That would be one of the most important religious developments of modern history!! :O

damn....that's the problem...I've read it in a brief news on my cellphone, and I couldn't find it later on a web.
I believe it was Saudi Arabia King's motivation? though it sound bizzare in our world, in the middle of a religeus and coltural war...

I personally dying to see the Kingdom Center in Ryadh. It's stunning!

btw, have it ever been shown in some Discovery-Geographic construction programms? have it been on TV at all?

I will keep my eyes peeled for any info..

It is an absolutely amazing design, I love it.

I also believe it will be a long time before it is surpassed as the worlds largest bottle opener!! :P

damn....that's the problem...I've read it in a brief news on my cellphone, and I couldn't find it later on a web.
I believe it was Saudi Arabia King's motivation? though it sound bizzare in our world, in the middle of a religeus and coltural war...

I personally dying to see the Kingdom Center in Ryadh. It's stunning!

btw, have it ever been shown in some Discovery-Geographic construction programms? have it been on TV at all?

Yes, I can't remember what it was called, maybe it was Megastructures? But it was very interesting. I saw it a good while ago now, but yeah, you should keep an eye open for it.

Yep, the chineese just copied the "bottle opener" shape into their SWFC

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7861/shanghaiworldfinancialcenter04.jpg
:jk:

Anyway, back the real issue of this thread - how about an update??
right now they may be finishing the side towers...Zamzam Tower and Hajer Tower.
Is there anybody living next to Mecca to "jump in" for some pictures?

btw, is anyone else is annoyed by the stalin-kind appearance of the main tower? looks like the red folks in the country of the greenery.

Any Updates?

I stumbled upon this while passing in front of a Muslim travel exhibition.
Nothing official but it seems that Abraj Al Bait's tallest tower could have undergone a drastic redesign.

This seems to be no higher than 300m tall, if other towers' heights remain unchanged (which seems likely).

http://ssc.singapenguin.net/06/060715_zamzam_towers_expo.jpg
Looks like some kind of helipad on the top, instead of the giant crown and spire.

Lets hope this is just a joke bcecause it looks damn ugly !

yes, i'm with your opinion

Gosh. What a mess. Let's hope that isn't a new render. I really like the crown of the old design.

I like flat topped buildings but that shit looks absolutely disgusting. I hope that's not what they're building.

if this is the new design then that would be awfull compared to the one we have seen.

yes i also reckon its the amended deisgn. the original may have been to over powering/dominating for its site? change to thread title coming up? who can find out for sure?

if the lower two towers are 225m, then the other two measure at 276m/900ft and tallest tower equates to 305m/1000ft.

Yes well atleast its not a spire cheater :lol:

Honestly though, the project was getting a lot of criticisms from a variety of media and is seen as a controversial project. The Web Site of the Abraj Al Bait was also taken down from my understanding the kingdom was well aware of the flack it was recieving. There are a lot of Saudi Royal family haters out there and the kingdom is well aware of it. I guess the Royal family is after all prone to be pressured and influenced. As you all have read in the countless posts made in threads about Abraj Al Bait, Most Muslims will tell you the construction of a building of this magnititude is within the boundaries of what is acceptable in Islam....

But hey I guess you cut costs and still have the massive capacity to house pilgrims, at the end of the day doesn't seem to be that bad of an idea from a practical perspective, but no doubt it rates low in the old "eye candy" meter.

The Helipad though is a great Idea, too many times there are fires that break out in highrises all over Saudi Arabia. No idea why that is but I give two thumbs up for the helipad.

As for the million dollar question with regards to this having been a redesign??, Well I believe it was Saudi Guy that claimed it indeed is a redesign with other members suggesting its an older render.

Will have to wait and see I guess.

no progress

The rendering looks so nice and classic.

if the lower two towers are 225m, then the other two measure at 276m/900ft and tallest tower equates to 305m/1000ft.
so shoudl someone change thread title to Zam Zam towers-305m?

http://ssc.singapenguin.net/06/060715_zamzam_towers_expo.jpg

The new lower design looks ugly. I don't think such a tall tower would fit in Mecca anyway.

NOOOOOO ...

http://i2.tinypic.com/205wao5.jpg

I Think this new render with the "Zamzam Tower" was an complete other project than the Abraj Al-Bait.

Wait a sec, I think Zam-Zam is just a part of the complex.

I think that this new render is shown by the people promoting ZAM ZAM TOWER which is a part of Abraj al Bait. I dont think that the design has been changed because the top part of the tower was an observatory and a research center. It was important for the sighting of the moon during/afer Ramadan.

26 july
http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/fa/794a9d35db001b8ac87d50f2e5267afa.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/454840/picture-hosting/-users-zohir-desktop-p-1000608.php)

IMPRISIVE
finly we can seen it in 180'

my position in the map , i hope it give you full thinking about position that you can see that project when it now in ~200m high
http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/fd/658b2a6b8c85058b3d20f5558e76befd.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/454947/picture-hosting/-users-zohir-desktop-abraj-albite-2.php)

Looks like a Las Vegas Casino LOL

^everything looks like a las vegas casino, theres not a building in the world they havent plagiarised.... what this looks like is the building which inspired a las vegas hotel

Does it really go that high, 485m??? It looks something like 300-350 m only.

Oh gosh! i just first to see this project.....absolutely great...

Updates please.

Looks like a Las Vegas Casino LOL
how dare u say something that Holy as a place where they do gambling, which is forbidden in Islam

how dare u say something that Holy as a place where they do gambling, which is forbidden in Islam

Oh calm down, a comparison of architecture isn't exactly an accusation of the betrayal of religious beliefs.

lol ok it jus seemed sarcastic as it is in large bold italic lettering

I absolutely love this building. It's islamic architecture is splendid. Highly situable for the Holy City of Mecca.

Honestly though, the project was getting a lot of criticisms from a variety of media and is seen as a controversial project. The Web Site of the Abraj Al Bait was also taken down from my understanding the kingdom was well aware of the flack it was recieving. There are a lot of Saudi Royal family haters out there and the kingdom is well aware of it. I guess the Royal family is after all prone to be pressured and influenced.

So their idea of calming down the hater is that instead of one very-tall but beautiful tower, it's better to have a not-so-very-tall but very ugly tower.

Oh well, this has to be the proof that NIMBY-ism ignores countries, races and religions altogether ^ ^

Anyway as can be seen in Saudy Guy's pic, it's gonna be utterly dominating in the cityscape, only difference is that now it's gonna be ugly too :-/

in latest b-monthly diagram updates the main tower Zam Zam is now 305m tall. gone is the 180m stepped section with ornamentation and spire. shame really.

Looks like a Las Vegas Casino LOL


Too right....its a nasty ensemble of islamic and western architecture, the sort of thing dubai's great at. Now saudi is following suit. Shame really. This of all places needed something of quality not brash ugly mirror glass and fake stone.

I don't like the new design at all.

it seems headcut

any updates?

http://www.zamzamtower.com/

Zamzam Tower is one of 5 towers in the Al Beit Towers complex:

http://www.alpha1estates.com/Pix/zamzam-exterior-2.jpg

This redesign is awful. At least the original design was slightly better looking next to the place of Hajj pilgrimage (sorry, I don't know the name), this will be a monstrosity.

Hey everybody, this is the NOT a re-design. It is actually the OLD design of Abraj Al Bait.

http://www.alpha1estates.com/Pix/zamzam-exterior-2.jpg

^^

If you're correct, you've brought hope back into this thread.

hope so. now lets get proof. we need plans, we need photos.lol

I think Ryadhi is right. Zam Zam is not the center tower, but is the tower on the right side in the back. I think these renders we are seeing, and the Zam Zam sites in general, date back to when the that tower was finalized but the rest of the complex had not been completely designed yet. Now this certainly is not proof, but the reason I think this is true is because of the following news link that has a tiny copy of the render in question, and is dated 2004:

http://www.oracle.com/global/uk/emea_sme/july2004/crm.html

By the way, I am basing the identity of "Zamzam tower" within the complex on an explanation that Riyadhi said sometime last year:

Here are some pictures and information to help understand the schem of the project,

The project is called ''Abraj Al-Bait" and it consists of 7 towers,
1- Hotel Tower 485 m (2008)
2- Hajar 260 m (2007)
3- ZamZam 260 m (2006)
4- Qiblah 240 m (2008)
5- Sarah 240 m (2008)
6- Marwah 240 m (2006)
7- Safa 240 m (2007)

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9462/abrajplan0tp.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3884/abraj1numcopy8kr.jpg

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/9630/photonum4uy.jpg

I am interested: where did you aquire this detailed information?

[QUOTE=Riyadhi]Hey everybody, this is the NOT a re-design. It is actually the OLD design of Abraj Al Bait.

I hope you are right Riyadhi. The decapitated version does look very much like the Venetian in Las Vegas minus the slot machines and show girls, of course.

Help me understand this building. Muslims (generally) are much more devout than Christians, but if you put something like that next to the Vatican -- something so close and big you could see it in the post cards -- I think the builder and city planner might be threatened with excommunication. Abraj Al-Bait lends a Disneyland quality to the Holy Ka'aba and turns the Haj into a spectator sport. Imagine the adverstisements:Come view the Holiest Place on Earth from the comfort of your air conditioned suite. Order room service while you watch the pilgrims complete their tawafs. Why is this commercialization of something so sacred not sacrilege?

well exactly it would of looked far better as a low rise building that actually did not try to take away the dignity and importance of this holy place. I am not a muslim but If I were I would not be happy about this building going up overlooking what was is to some the most important place on earth.

I agree, it seems quite outrageous really. I'm used to English Heritage doing anything it can to protect views and sightlines of old London landmarks, but this turns that on it's head. It's a nice building still though, just very close.

i was a big fan of the old designs and old colors and glass. this is a big disapointment

Good design!!

Imagine the adverstisements:Come view the Holiest Place on Earth from the comfort of your air conditioned suite. Order room service while you watch the pilgrims complete their tawafs. Why is this commercialization of something so sacred not sacrilege?

ROFL, you hit the nail on the head :P

It's amusing how all the non-muslims are crying foul over the construction of this project like it is sacriligious to them....well to all the non-muslims....i'm sorry..

i'm sorry for realizing we need to best use the space around the Kaba'a. I'm sorry for the fact that we are making it possible for people coming from thousands of miles away stay in proper accomodations instead of age-old houses that were at a risk of collapsing, had poor sanitation, etc etc. I'm sorry that you have to envy these developments....and I'm sorry we aren't the relics you would like us to be...

so...in conclusion....if you have not lived in Makkah or been there, you have no idea how badly these buildings are needed in Makkah....so I, for one, am really glad these buildings are getting built...and I would like to see more of these in the future. If these buildings can replace the buildings that are currently there....the ones in really bad shape....then these projects aren't against Islam....they'll be blessed by God....seriously.....sorry if I came off a bit religious there...

Oh...what's the deal with these other renderings...like honestly? i really hope they haven't changed the designs and riyadhi is right.....can we please confirm that the designs we all like will be the one that gets built? please? :)

I am coming from a design perspective here not a religious one. I'm not disrespecting your country or how you would like to be percieved as a nation. I'm just concerned that there has not been enough thought about the development and its proximity next to this national monument. Oh and ' im sorry' what have you to be sorry about?

I am a Muslim and I agree with the points by the other forumers... These towers are WAY TO BIG... They completely overshadow the Kabba, and on top of that, they are quite ugly.. Look like over ambitious Commuinst era buildings. Just shows the lack of imagination on the part of planners. With all the money the Saudis have, and all the creativity that abounds in the Muslim world, its sad that this is the best anyone could come up with. Just another example of Saudi govt taking decision for everyone, and not taking the concerns and views of other people. They have no problem knocking down historical and cultural landmarks, but they built this monstrosity before anyone even knew it was being built.

With regard to comment by Jamandell -
English Heritage works to preserve age old sightlines.
I think a lot of the forumers here don't realize the mosque itself is quite new for the most part. The bulk of the structure dates from around the 1980s. The inner core is from the Ottoman period as far as my memory serves me. There is no building here dating from the time of the Prophet - the Kabah itself has been rebuilt several times. And, there is nothing sacreligeous about building a hotel to house pilgrims. I do agree though that the design while impressive is also garish and distracts from the mosque.

Pic's by khalelooo

Latest Pic's of Abraj Albait , yet underconstruction. (pictures taken Summer 2006)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/IMG_0122.3c8.jpg

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/IMG_0142.380.jpg

I do NOT oppose Mecca getting a skyline (and a sweet skyline at that) but they should've created a specific hi-rise district in another part of the city: better planning was needed for this. The area around the Mosque should remain clear for future expansion (Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world) It would be so easy for the Saudi govt to install subways/LRT's to serve the pilgrims and locals instead of building these hi-rise hotels right next to the Kaaba to be "close at hand". Hajj and Umrah are meant to be hard wearing, exhaustive, and ultimately, life-changing experiences. That's the point of pilgrims exclaiming "Labaik, Allahumma, Labaik!" ("Here I am, oh God! Here i am!") in joy when they finally see the Kaaba. Coming from the cool confines of a nice hotel and then just stepping in the front door of the mosque and saying that sorta takes the biscuit.

In short the Abraj sure are nice, BUT are wayy too near al-Masjid-al-Haram imho. I (and millions of Muslims around the world who don't have the luxury of having the Qibla of Qiblas (the Kaaba) in their backyards) would've prefered the area around this Holy site to be somewhat "preserved" if not left clear for future expansion of the Mosque without the issue of possible cramming; the density in Mecca is thick enough, as u can see from Google Earth.


Great point!

Jeez, If the deisign is changed to that Vegas one, I am killing Myself! Where is the Islamic Architecture in there??????

Anywho, I agree that the Mecca city council should have planned a skyscraper district somewhere else, far from the Kaabah. Its like when you have your pilgrimage, you pray and instead of seeing Allah up there, you see these towers lol.

this is building in very insolite !!!
one building in the mecqua is symbol
very beautiful project

Any new construction photos?

yeah that would be nice. less crap talk.

can't wait to see it finished

The last thing I wanted around the Ka'aba was a skyscraper :no:

yeah that would be nice. less crap talk.

And who exactally are you talking to like that?

^everyone thats posting crap in this thread.
these threads are for construction updates. thats it.
come on guys. hardly worth visiting this thread anymore.

I always wondered where they put all those pilgrims. They definitely have a need for big hotels there.

Looks like a Las Vegas Casino LOL
Ironically, it's sort of shaped like the Aladdin casino with those two wings sticking out front. But the glass and siding on Abraj Al-Bait sure look a lot better than the ugly Aladdin.

http://www.amitgoel.com/vegas2002/images/DSC00102.JPGhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/Misc/Abraj-A.jpg

^everyone thats posting crap in this thread.
these threads are for construction updates. thats it.
come on guys. hardly worth visiting this thread anymore.

Crikey! indeed.

I cannot recall anyone from Arabia posting on any of these forums. Without someone from that area to help keep us updated and our conversation on track, religious controversy is all we have to add.

If they put a jumbotron in front of the Abraj Al-bait Hotel advertising Celine Dion, you'll know someone has made a mistake because the Blue Man Group is a far better act.

I understand Osama Bin Laden will be coming out of retirement to do a magic act there. He's going to make two buildings disappear.

any updates?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/AbrajAlbait.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-14-00.jpg http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-10-39.jpg
Look carefuly to these one they remove building in front Abraj Albait & there enternce from undergrond
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-11-20.jpg http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-08-41.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-09-29.jpg http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-13-12.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/Snapshot2006-10-1519-12-00.jpg http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/trine.jpg

new updates by Googel
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/AbrajAlBait.jpg

old one
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/al-bait.jpg

this complex is gigantic!! is this the new design on the pic's?

what you mean ZZ-II ?? there just bit things deffrint like those Ambrila on top....but in all it steel the same.

not that good but anyway i posted it ,new pic in 29 Septmber 06 from web

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/255474661_5e59e14435_b.jpg

is the big one actually uc? is it still to be 485m or 305m?

it kinda overwhelms the original mosque in mecca

That building looks like it belongs to the Soviet Era :).The design is very bold but I believe it will somehow spoil Mecca's skyline, but we will have too see it when it's finished.

I see that Mecca plans to build a monorail or an LRT system. When will it be built?I hope they plan and build it carefully,I can already imagine a worst case scenario where pilgrims being pushed by the crowd behind them and fall on the rail tracks as the train arrives...

Good!!! It's progressing very well.

what you mean ZZ-II ?? there just bit things deffrint like those Ambrila on top....but in all it steel the same.

not that good but anyway i posted it ,new pic in 29 Septmber 06 from web


i've heard something about a redesign :)

yah but that was before more than 1 year ago.that projct was 5 tower only and the big one was ~250m

Excellent complex, anxious to see more daylight photos.

The spire on this thing will be stunning.

new model
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/Saudi-Guy/Abraj%20Al%20Bait/15751576158515751580157516041576161.jpg

Is the big one actually uc? Is it still to be 485m or 305m?Yeah, I would like to know this too CULWULLA!

But judging from Saudi guy's last post latest post above, it seems to be back up to 485m/1,591ft. It also states this on both Emporis and skyscraperpage.com.

also think it's going to be 485m

This buildind is really advanced, I would like to know when this amazing building will be complete.

As far as I know, it's not "back to 485" becuase I don't think it was ever down from that height. The circa 300m version with no spire was just a place holder when they were marketing the "Zamzam tower" (one of the side towers), but the Hotel Tower plans haven't changed since they finalized the tall and ornate version of it.

Please correct me if I am wrong....

Thank you so much for finally posting real updates guyz. I had nearly given up on this thread until now :-)

Hopefully we can get some pics of the entire project from diff angles to get an idea of how developed it is and how it is looking in relation to the Grand Mosque.

Right, its been a month since the last post on here so i guess its time for me to dig this thread up again and ask whether anyone can supply some picks or info :D

any updates? lol

Impressive but too close and invasive to the Holy site.

From July 9, 2006
http://static.flickr.com/104/293294550_64f1898857_b.jpg

Nov 9, 2006
http://static.flickr.com/121/293285579_3071678af5_o.jpg

the mosque looks so small now

Great pictures, Chad. I can't wait to see the Hotel Tower raise up in the middle with it's magnificent spire.
Also, I don't think we have to worry about it being too overpowering. No matter how impressive this building is, the Kaaba will still be the center of focus.

damned, that complex is so gigantic

This is so beautiful. It will fit nicely in the area.

I wish they had built this one,

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5796/1lu5.jpg
Image by Slugbelch from SSP,

Old design? new design?

From July 9, 2006
http://static.flickr.com/104/293294550_64f1898857_b.jpg

Thats an amazing picture. I really like how it adds to the atmosphere. For those of who haven't been to Mecca you wouldn't realize. The entire city is built on the slopes of mountains and everywhere you go its like you are surrounded by height and tunnels yet you get this magnificent feel of liveliness yet peace. This tower just extends that feel.

And no the mosque still doesnt look small. If you look closely to the people standing next to the mosque, you ll realize how big the mosque atually is. It can never look small no matter how big the things surrounding it are.

Chad, thank you very much for the pics. Im not sure if you are based there but would love to see some good shots of the complex during the day and from a high elevation perhaps showing Mosque in the forground?


Riyadhi, that render left me without words...

Nice tower. It looks very big and great design.

BEAUTIFUL!..

I wish to go Mecca one day.:yes:

Great pictures, Chad. I can't wait to see the Hotel Tower raise up in the middle with it's magnificent spire.
Also, I don't think we have to worry about it being too overpowering. No matter how impressive this building is, the Kaaba will still be the center of focus.

That's quite a relief. Im beggining to like this project :banana:

I wish they had built this one,

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5796/1lu5.jpg
Image by Slugbelch from SSP,

was that a taller design?

beatiful

I wish they had built this one,

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5796/1lu5.jpg
Image by Slugbelch from SSP,


WOW MAJESTIC!!

That would of been awsome.

So amazing! Very surreal!

Any updates?

Hi evryone,
ive been wanting to know about this project for the past year when i visited Mecca. i found this wonderful forum about 2 weeks back and seen how well the project has progressed. its GREAT!:)
just a few requests from u guys:
1. what is that building doing right infront of the AL Beit towers - is it a hotel? if so whats it called? and will it stay there?
2. has anyone got information of any projects on shammiya side - i remember seeing some pics about it but cant find them now.
thanks

1. that little building is really mysterious but I hope they demolish it once the project is complete.

2. Shammiya side will be devlelped by Emaar KSA (Joint venture between Aloula and Emaar). No official annoncement after the project was given to them.

http://www.makkah-development.gov.sa/hcm/4/4-3/shamiah/1.jpg

is the tallest bldg actually UC? i want to include it in world talls diagram but we have no evidence of its construction. yes the masive podium and other towers are pprogressing but the central tower hasnt had any photos or rear shots. does anyone on forum live in mecca?

is the tallest bldg actually UC? i want to include it in world talls diagram but we have no evidence of its construction. yes the masive podium and other towers are pprogressing but the central tower hasnt had any photos or rear shots. does anyone on forum live in mecca?

Heavily doubt we have Makkan's on SSC, we do have a few Saudi's that can get us updates, from my understanding the main tower won't go up till the peripheral towers are well on their way to completion.

1. that little building is really mysterious but I hope they demolish it once the project is complete.

2. Shammiya side will be devlelped by Emaar KSA (Joint venture between Aloula and Emaar). No official annoncement after the project was given to them.

http://www.makkah-development.gov.sa/hcm/4/4-3/shamiah/1.jpg



Which building can you point it out?, And what's the Shammiya project?

Sorry for my ignorance.

Subhanallah.. !!!! I just have umrah in last Ramadhan.. I wish I can come back here soon...
(sorry for my bad english)

wow
IMO the most wonderful tower ever in the world ;)