Being built right now? ;)

Being built right now? ;)

1925: http://www.historichotels.org/hotel/The_Westin_Poinsett :lol:

Don't you think it is a little late to give us updates on a project that was completed 83 years ago? :lol:

Holly Springs is becoming a sprawling destination for commercial development. Super Target was announced for New Hill Place shopping center ( see triangle business journal for a blip) and Lowes Home Improvement submitted plans to build beside the Super WalMart.

Read it in the news... Let's see if Holly Springs can address sprawl a little better than the usual. Attracting big retailers, on the other hand, is not a bad indicator for the town, outside the sprawling factor. I truly believe that there is great future for such municipalities, if they learn to curb the sprawl... some day.

OMG...are you serious? Holly Springs with a super Target and lowes? Can these people not go to Cary?

So what happens in F-V? I will tell you....this just puts off their Super Target and Lowes another five years. Then they will be built....just five miles away from the ones in Holly Springs....:ohno:....which are just five miles from the one in Cary....which is just five miles away from the other one in Cary...which is just five miles away from the one in Apex.....:nuts:

Then of course you have the new super wal-Mart in Garner which is going up....just 20 feet from the other Wal-Mart. :nuts: (shoppes at Garner)

When will this crap end?

All crap aside...F-V one have been the best choice for the Super Target and Lowes..It would have been just 5-10 minutes from Holly Springs...would have made more sense.

Tarheelclub
I live in Holly Springs and I don't like sprawl either. With that being said please do not disrespect people here as if we should drive to Cary or Apex for stuff. Just like every other city they Holly Springs will like to supply their residents with stuff that is convient to them. We have the fastest growing population in this county and we should be able to attract businesses here. Plus with rising cost of gas it will be quite convient for me and my neighbors. So while I am on the side of anti sprawl, I also believe that the citizens of Holly Springs deserve their own stores to help expand their tax base and cator to our residents. Please be more respectful when making comments!

:)

Tarheelclub
I live in Holly Springs and I don't like sprawl either. With that being said please do not disrespect people here as if we should drive to Cary or Apex for stuff. Just like every other city they Holly Springs will like to supply their residents with stuff that is convient to them. We have the fastest growing population in this county and we should be able to attract businesses here. Plus with rising cost of gas it will be quite convient for me and my neighbors. So while I am on the side of anti sprawl, I also believe that the citizens of Holly Springs deserve their own stores to help expand their tax base and cator to our residents. Please be more respectful when making comments!

:)


How am I disrespecting people living in Holly Springs? Crossroads is literally right up the road! Holly Springs rd! There is a target, Home Depot, BJ's....everything you need..

Then you have the Home Depot in F-V...around 5 minutes. That is not a long drive. So my question is why do the people in F-V have to be the ones to drive? Holly Springs is between Cary and F-V. Since everything thing is in Cary right now, F-V would have been the best choice for everyone for the Target etc. Just five minutes from Holly Springs. That way people from F-V would not have to drive to Cary and Garner to get some things. I guess Holly Springs will cut the drive down for F-V though.

I am just mad becuase I see what the future for that area is going to be. Just more subdivisions with big box retail, just like every other NC town. Why don't Holly Springs build up their downtown? Why doesen't F-V built up their downtown? Cary...Apex. Just pisses me off.

However, I do love Salem st in Apex. It's small but very nice. :cheers:

Let's give some love to Durham: Durham ponders plans for courthouse (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1094200.html). The article can be summarized in the following:
DESIGN: 11 stories with a 900-space parking deck
COST: $100 million
LOCATION: Mangum and Dillard streets, beside the jail
CONSTRUCTION BEGINS: December 2009
Nice to hear that they are also thinking about the impact:
Commissioner Becky Heron emphasized -- repeatedly -- her concerns about how the 11-floor courthouse will look as part of the downtown skyline. "We need to do something to keep it from looking like a hotel," Heron said. She said also that she has heard from lawyers who are concerned about the efficiency of the layout.

During some Google search, I found a couple of renderings of the Duke University Central Campus (Duke Village) vision (http://www.tndpartners.com/neighborhoods/#duke), proposed several years ago. Lovely project, and VERY urban. If I recall, there was a lot of opposition by Ninth Street businesses and others, but to me it would be foolish to reject this beauty:

http://www.tndpartners.com/neighborhoods/duke/duke01-centralcampus1-lg.jpg

http://www.tndpartners.com/neighborhoods/duke/duke02-centralcampus2-lg.jpg

Of course, I find it interesting that they don't want the new courthouse to look like a hotel. The original courthouse and annex:

http://www.endangereddurham.org/Photos/WelfareDept_2007.jpg

were built to mirror Durham Union Station next door.

http://www.endangereddurham.org/Photos/UnionStation_postcard.jpg

Sadly, the station was demolished to make way for the Durham Loop.

http://www.endangereddurham.org/Photos/UnionStation_demo_090368.jpg

So, will the old courthouse and annex go the same way as Union Station? How knows. BTW: http://endangereddurham.blogspot.com/ is a totally awesome website about where Durham has been. Check them out!!

Peace :2cents:

During some Google search, I found a couple of renderings of the Duke University Central Campus (Duke Village) vision (http://www.tndpartners.com/neighborhoods/#duke), proposed several years ago. Lovely project, and VERY urban. If I recall, there was a lot of opposition by Ninth Street businesses and others, but to me it would be foolish to reject this beauty:

I am seriously in love with the Brooklyn Bridge/transit stop span over the Durham Freeway in the lower right hand corner. Beautiful!!

Peace :2cents:

Let's see how much of that will materialize. As for the Endangered Durham site, it is a gem for our area. What a great way to preserve/record Durham's history online :okay:

Not surprise here: Survey studies image of downtown Durham (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3251212/). I do not agree that the surrounding counties are responsible for the negative image, though. Durham leaders need to look into the very real and existing problem with crime and gangs. Personally, I enjoy my visits to Durham and encourage others to check out the many nice destinations, as well as the great historic renovations that have been taking place there. In other words, enjoy Durham for what it is...

Not surprise here: Survey studies image of downtown Durham (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3251212/). I do not agree that the surrounding counties are responsible for the negative image, though. Durham leaders need to look into the very real and existing problem with crime and gangs. Personally, I enjoy my visits to Durham and encourage others to check out the many nice destinations, as well as the great historic renovations that have been taking place there. In other words, enjoy Durham for what it is...

I like this quote:
"Some people blame the media.

“When you turned on the news, it used to be that crimes in Durham would be the first thing that you saw,” said Jennings Brody, owner of Parker and Otis, a downtown restaurant and catering business.

Well, when gang bangers are shooting at school busses, it's kind of hard for the media to NOT report it. The city also doesn't do itself any favors by allowing the Holloway St corridor, from Miami Blvd into Downtown, look like crap. I'm not talking the structures either. Last time I went through there it felt like I was driving over the moon.

When I first visited the Triangle to visit Duke for graduate school in 1990, the Durham Freeway was not yet finished. So, my AAA office in Ohio made a map with me following US70 from Raleigh into Durham. And, that meant taking Bus US70 through the east side of town. I was struck by the obvious division of Durham and later understood what happened when the economic engine of tobacco sputtered out. That workforce was effectively abandoned and left in place while the star of Duke and RTP began to ascend. In that poverty vacuum, other elements moved in and began to fester. Yet, Roxboro Road is acquiring a Latin taste and picking up to a degree.

Is it perfect? Hardly. Is it evolving? Yes. Where will it go? Who knows, but I commend the Durham PD for trying to correct the problems left over when those jobs disappeared or moved on. Durham seems to catch more of it since it didn't bounce back while Raleigh and Chapel Hill continued to move ahead. If the technology sector were to ever completely evaporate for some unfathomable reason, Raleigh would probably be in the same place.

Peace :2cents:

Good points, both of you :okay:

It appears the Holly Springs is going to be the next commercial hotbed for shopping centers.

http://www.newsobserver.com/281/story/1144098.html

It appears the Holly Springs is going to be the next commercial hotbed for shopping centers.

http://www.newsobserver.com/281/story/1144098.html

I saw this coming.

Novant Health of Winston-Salem has applied to the state to build a 46 bed Hospital in Holly Springs. The Hospital would employ more than 200 people if approved according to the Triad Business Journal.

Novant Health of Winston-Salem has applied to the state to build a 46 bed Hospital in Holly Springs. The Hospital would employ more than 200 people if approved according to the Triad Business Journal.

This is an interesting dream which will probably go nowhere for some time. Wake County was already approved for 250 additional beds by the state at least two years ago. WakeMed successfully petitioned for these and received the lion's share of them and are actively building them as we speak in Raleigh and Cary. They've also just opened their HealthPlex/ER in Apex. I'm not sure about Rex's plans beyond their new outpatient services building in Wakefield and Knightdale, but Duke Raleigh has already done the engineering studies to plan for their next addition. So, Novant is going to have a fight on their hands from the players already in the market.

Also, I would find it interesting to see what kind of physician pool they plan to recruit to make the thing happen. It would definitely be the kind of place which would cherry pick the healthiest of the sick to keep their numbers looking good and turfing the rest. Sorry Holly Springs, but I just don't see it happening.

Peace :2cents:

Tons of potential for growth in Holly Springs and we all know that... I am just hoping that local officials realize that they need to control that growth before it ruins every chance the town has for some attractive image. Sprawling developments and [suburban] shopping centers are not my type. At worst, I prefer North Hills type of centers.

Tons of potential for growth in Holly Springs and we all know that... I am just hoping that local officials realize that they need to control that growth before it ruins every chance the town has for some attractive image. Sprawling developments and [suburban] shopping centers are not my type. At worst, I prefer North Hills type of centers.

Unfortunately, when you look at what the neighbors in FV, Apex and Cary have done, building up is not in the future. When there are huge...tracts of land they tend to built low-density. (Sorry about that. I just watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail last week).

North Hills and Buckhead type developments are generally second or third generation development. Now, if Wake County were to ever conceive of a Green Belt to preserve farmland like some English cities have done, then there would be the impetus to go up, not out. Holly Springs would have to enact some aggressive planning rules for the town and its extra-territorial jurisdiction to make it happen as you envision.

Peace :2cents:

This is an interesting dream which will probably go nowhere for some time. Wake County was already approved for 250 additional beds by the state at least two years ago. WakeMed successfully petitioned for these and received the lion's share of them and are actively building them as we speak in Raleigh and Cary. They've also just opened their HealthPlex/ER in Apex. I'm not sure about Rex's plans beyond their new outpatient services building in Wakefield and Knightdale, but Duke Raleigh has already done the engineering studies to plan for their next addition. So, Novant is going to have a fight on their hands from the players already in the market.

And my comment has been answered. WakeMed wants to expand it's North Healthplex to be the state's first women's hospital. Meanwhile, Rex is going to petition to have those same 41 beds added to their main campus. It's going to be an interesting fight to say the least...

WakeMed, Rex want to add more beds (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/health_science/story/1159593.html)

Peace :2cents:

I have to post because I live in Holly Springs. I concur that Novant will have a hard time getting it approved at 46 beds but I believe they will win something. Wake med will have to answer the fact that they have gotten 11 additional beds in Cary for the maternity ward. I also do think that the neighbor towns have some effect on what happens here but I will tell you that our Council will fight tooth in nail to continue increasing the tax revenue from businesses to lower residential tax rates. As far as something like North hills being built here is just not in the card not because it can't be built or that there is enough land, power centers like those require much higher demographics which are currently not present. I think you will see that more in Cary (like Waverly place) in the near future. We do have Main street market (http://www.mainstsquare.com/)and south park village (http://www.yorkproperties.com/commercial-real-estate/property_attachments/files/69_SPV%20MF%202%20(2).pdf)will have some walk able characteristics but not to the extent like NHs. I like the fact that we will get stores like BBB and TJMAXX but i don't like them in strip mall setting. So I wish kite will design something a little more dense and pedestrian friendly (dreaming).

I did not read all of this but why is Holly springs being considered for a hospital? Did I read this right?

Holly springs is nothing but a subdivision.....

Again...F-V is being over looked. I guess when people living in Fuquay have an emergency....we have to travel to Cary or Raleigh huh? By that time we will be dead!

Holly Springs is a lot closer to west wake in cary......I just don't get it. :ohno:

Tarheelclub,
That big Subdivision has more people then FV thats why. i don't understand that childish comment. We are close to WWmed then you thats right, but if this is built then FV will have a hospital closer to them the WWmed. It seems like you hate Holly Springs. Why? What have we done? Sprawl? is that it? FV sprawl too. Is it that Holly Springs has too many people with higher income than FV. I personally love FV and its two quaint DT's. I am just so confuse as to your harshness about H.S. Please comment

Tarheelclub,
That big Subdivision has more people then FV thats why. i don't understand that childish comment. We are close to WWmed then you thats right, but if this is built then FV will have a hospital closer to them the WWmed. It seems like you hate Holly Springs. Why? What have we done? Sprawl? is that it? FV sprawl too. Is it that Holly Springs has too many people with higher income than FV. I personally love FV and its two quaint DT's. I am just so confuse as to your harshness about H.S. Please comment

My post has everything to do with sprawl. It really was not about the hospital but the new shopping centers Holly Springs is getting. My question is why can't they drive to Cary? F-V drives to Cary.

So here is what will happen. Holly Springs will get all the shopping centers that Cary currently has. Once this happens...F-V will get those same shopping centers. Everything here looks the same. I hate big box retail.

So my post was really directed to the Target project in Holly Springs. The new Hospital just reminded me of it.

I can't stand this spawl. Nobody cares about the future. It's the same ole crap everywhere.

I have nothing against Holly Springs. But it is a giant subdivision. The downtown is much of nothing. At least Apex's salem street has some character!

So my question is...when are towns like Holly Springs going to develop their downtown? Why does everything have to be in a field with a giant parking lot....are a clear cut forest?

F-V does the same thing.

It just makes me mad. Holly Springs and especially Cary are the worst for this.

My post has everything to do with sprawl. It really was not about the hospital but the new shopping centers Holly Springs is getting. My question is why can't they drive to Cary? F-V drives to Cary.

So here is what will happen. Holly Springs will get all the shopping centers that Cary currently has. Once this happens...F-V will get those same shopping centers. Everything here looks the same. I hate big box retail.

So my post was really directed to the Target project in Holly Springs. The new Hospital just reminded me of it.

I can't stand this spawl. Nobody cares about the future. It's the same ole crap everywhere.

I have nothing against Holly Springs. But it is a giant subdivision. The downtown is much of nothing. At least Apex's salem street has some character!

So my question is...when are towns like Holly Springs going to develop their downtown? Why does everything have to be in a field with a giant parking lot....are a clear cut forest?

F-V does the same thing.

It just makes me mad. Holly Springs and especially Cary are the worst for this.

I am not aware of any town of 20,000 building up their downtown, but would be open to know of some.

I am not aware of any town of 20,000 building up their downtown, but would be open to know of some.


Thats the response I would expect. Read my post....I said it is the same everywhere. So how come Holly Springs can't be original and build up their downtown?

so what if they are under 20,000?

Just shows me you are one of these people that support this pointless sprawl!

The thing about Holly springs....is there really is nothing stopping them from building up their downtown...unlike some of these downeastern towns......

The same goes for F-V...Apex (who is trying...good for them) and Cary.

The size of the town doesn't always matter when it comes to building up their downtown, IMHO. I will be pleasantly surprised to see the surrounding municipalities of Raleigh taking some lead in that department. While I do not expect much from Morrisville, I do see a positive attitude from towns like Apex, Cary and Wake Forest. Who knows, some day they may make us proud.

The size of the town doesn't always matter when it comes to building up their downtown, IMHO. I will be pleasantly surprised to see the surrounding municipalities of Raleigh taking some lead in that department. While I do not expect much from Morrisville, I do see a positive attitude from towns like Apex, Cary and Wake Forest. Who knows, some day they may make us proud.

Thank you Raleigh-NC. The size of a town should not matter when it comes to at least trying to build up your downtown. All I see Holly Springs doing right now is building subdivisions, and now big box retail.

-Cary is now finally trying to do something with their downtown
-Apex with just 23,000 people are at least trying to do something original
-F-V with just 12,000 people built a new two story building on main street varina a couple years ago.

Holly Springs? Well they continue to make sunset ridge even larger......Now we are about to get Sunset ridge hospital...:lol:

:cheers:

We have done work in our DT. We have nearly 100% leased of all the current project and We have comprehesive plan to move forward with making Downtown HS better. Holly Springs does not have to apologize for it subdivisions our its growth. We stand in support of all of the work FV has done to create a nice little section on 55 to stop and explore. but lets not get it twisted, If FV was asked to approve some big box retail it would. Holly Springs has already passed FV and on the tail of Apex in Pop. Must be something nice going on here. Hummm, must be all the nice subdivsions going up! 23000 wrong and counting:lol:

Kind of hard to promote urbanity in areas that depend on sprawl and affordable housing, although the three can co-exist. We can sprawl in an urban fashion and maintain low prices. While smaller towns seem to be attractive to people who don't care much about high-rises, I think that Triangle's smaller municipalities can do well with a few 5-6 story buildings, particularly along their major roads. The quality of life in the area is still very good, therefore most people don't seem to pay attention on the advantages of higher density and other urban elements. Some day things will change, just not these days.

We have done work in our DT. We have nearly 100% leased of all the current project and We have comprehesive plan to move forward with making Downtown HS better. Holly Springs does not have to apologize for it subdivisions our its growth. We stand in support of all of the work FV has done to create a nice little section on 55 to stop and explore. but lets not get it twisted, If FV was asked to approve some big box retail it would. Holly Springs has already passed FV and on the tail of Apex in Pop. Must be something nice going on here. Hummm, must be all the nice subdivsions going up! 23000 wrong and counting:lol:

I realize Apex is now much larger than 23,000...I was using old numbers. I am not trying to compare F-V and Holly Springs. I know F-V would approve any big box retail that came its way. (Kohl's) Thats exactly what I said earlier. "Holly Springs will get all the retail Cary now has...then F-V will get the same things but further down the line" I am for more of an urban style growth...not huge parking lots with giant retailers sitting way off the road. I am also for denser neighborhoods.... (with good road connectivity...not dead ends) instead of giants forests and fields being consumed by large MCmansions. :lol:

I know...F-V...and every other town in America does it. :cheers:

Apex, population: 20,212
Cary, population: 127,640
Clayton, population: 13,842
Fuquay-Varina, population: 13,669
Garner, population: 17,757
Holly Springs, population: 17,425
Knightdale, population: 9,843
Morrisville, population: 13,501
Raleigh, population: 374,320
Rolesville, population: 1,710
Sanford, population: 23,200
Wake Forest, population: 22,324
Wendell, population: 4,247
Zebulon, population: 4,329

I guess it’s interesting to me in watching Wake County evolve because of the character of the satellite communities has changed so drastically in just the 15 years I’ve been here. First, of course, Raleigh hasn’t expanded as an individual city since there was a ring of smaller towns which came into being to provide basic services for the rural sectors over 100 years ago. As such, those development patterns were slow and gradual with the mindset of a defined central core. Fuquay Springs, Apex, Cary, Wendell and Zebulon all had bigger head starts since they were on the main rail lines spreading out from Raleigh. Even with the advent of automobiles, the road network was pretty limited and those small towns grew in a slow and measured pace.

I imagine all of us involved in this discussion are part of the later, more explosive growth. Farms have been bulldozed under and large tracts of homes come in being fed by larger road networks. All of those new residents have the same basic needs for services, so more farms are plowed under to quickly fill in those services. The small towns which found this flood of new residents coming in welcomed them, hoping they would support the central districts which were already in place. Some of the transplants did, but others were also content to stay out in their cul de sacs. These people weren’t native to Fuquay, Cary or Apex. They were simply looking for inexpensive housing and a quick way to get to RTP and they didn’t have any allegiance to the towns they lived in beyond demanding support and police services. And, it’s not like Cary, Apex or Fuquay Springs (now merged with Varina) didn’t try to do what they could to keep the central business districts viable. But, they didn’t have the vast amounts of land or parking available since those smaller parcels were already in the hands of smaller landowners.

Retail development is all about economies of scale and potential developers would prefer to deal with a single landowner as opposed to trying and assemble a parcel. Look at how certain landowners in DT Raleigh were tenaciously holding on to their little slivers of the block which the new convention center sits on. And, when you look at the property records of undeveloped land in the county and you’ll not find the family of the original farmer, but a speculator who bought the land cheap with the hope they can cash in some day. So, this simply echoes an earlier discussion about gentrification on another thread and we move to urbanification. What right does a municipality do in dictating what a landowner wants to do with a particular parcel of land?

The best we can do is blog away and hope that somebody listens, because where southern and western Wake County go, northern and eastern Wake will be next…

I truly appreciate the work you put behind this list, and your nice evaluation of the current state of our metropolitan area. We are indeed living during the times when urbanization is increasingly becoming important, yet the infrastructure for good urban fabric just isn't in place. To convince the developers - and city/town officials - that a strong urban infrastructure is crucial, it will take many years of bad development, traffic congestion and increasing gasoline prices. We are nowhere near there, I am afraid. One way of achieving this would be a good set of urban development guidelines, coupled with a few successful urban communities. We all bet on our city's Planning Raleigh 2030 effort, but that will not be sufficient if not implemented 100% - assuming the final guidelines will be good. It pains me to think that developers simply don't see the need for good urban communities. At best, we get half-urban communities, like Bedford and Renaissance Park, or nearly urban neighborhoods, like Madison Park. When downtown neighborhoods get built to their maximum capacity, where else can we build urbanity? Not many options.

We tend to look at people who don't preach urban living in a very strange way, but in my opinion they are not unreasonable... They have a hard time seeing where things are heading, though, so we need to be better prepared in making a strong case for urban guidelines. It is not supposed to be about restrictions, but rather better management of growth. We can blog, send emails, share the knowledge, but at the end we may not supply enough arguments for the pros of good urban planning. We need to make sure we emphasize the economic advantages of building urban communities. For local governments, the transportation funding from the Feds may be an incentive for encouraging denser, more urban communities. For developers, a strong message from the buyers should be more than enough. If we encourage them to build urban communities - with the local governments on board - we may see a trend towards urbanization. Easier said than done, in our area, I know... BTW, there was an interesting article in today's N&O, titled Commuters longing to live near work (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/traffic/gas/story/1165412.html). Good read, I think.

I took the liberty to rearrange the population list, starting with the largest municipalities. While it doesn't deal with the Triangle, but rather Wake County - Sanford is not in Wake County, though (see map below), so I excluded it - it is a good indicator where the entire area is going.

Raleigh: 374,320
Cary: 127,640
Wake Forest: 22,324
Apex: 20,212
Garner: 17,757
Holly Springs: 17,425
Fuquay-Varina: 13,669
Morrisville: 13,501
Knightdale: 9,843
Zebulon: 4,329
Wendell: 4,247
Rolesville: 1,710

http://www.legeros.com/ralwake/galleryw/docs/wake-map.gif

You expect me to read all of that? :uh: :runaway:

Population for Apex (2007) is up to 31,000. Link below states that.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex,_North_Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex,_North_Carolina)

I am sure many of the numbers above are outdated already, but not every municipality offers the most up to date estimates. Anyway, growth happens in our area and the numbers change by the day :lol:

I took the liberty to rearrange the population list, starting with the largest municipalities. While it doesn't deal with the Triangle, but rather Wake County - Sanford is not in Wake County, though (see map below), so I excluded it - it is a good indicator where the entire area is going.

Oh, I intentionally snuck Clayton and Sanford into the list because they are slowly becoming part of the Triangle. I would have added Cleveland School/Crossroads, but they're not incorporated. The same can be said of the unfortunate attempt of Swift Creek to control their destiny by incorporation. Failing that, they simply get annexed by Raleigh/Cary/Garner. At one time, an acquaintance of mine even went so far as to suggest another southwestern Wake conurbation, namely Fu-pex. It seemed funny when I first heard it 15 years ago. Now, it's not such a far-away idea...



For local governments, the transportation funding from the Feds may be an incentive for encouraging denser, more urban communities. For developers, a strong message from the buyers should be more than enough. If we encourage them to build urban communities - with the local governments on board - we may see a trend towards urbanization. Easier said than done, in our area, I know... BTW, there was an interesting article in today's N&O, titled Commuters longing to live near work. Good read, I think.

I liked this one from the article:

"Nothing changes people's behaviors as quickly as high prices," said Bert Sperling, founder of Sperling's Best Places of Portland, Ore., which ranks qualities of cities based on market research. It regularly lists the Triangle as among the regions hardest hit by rising gas prices.

The area's suburban landscape has expanded away from city centers under a basic economic principle: If you can't afford a home in a close-in neighborhood, then just drive farther out of town, where land is cheaper.

Now anecdotal evidence and home data suggest that many are moving back -- a migration that could reverse the character of towns that thrive from residential construction and it could dash the fortunes of suburban homeowners and landlords.

Here may be an answer to the direction which needs to be taken. Price and market will dictate development. When gas was cheap, sprawl happened. I agree with you about Bedford. It's a nice idea, but it's disconnected from the urban fabric once you leave the enclave. Driving within it is like the Twilight Zone, and every time I go in I feel like I hear that music and wonder if I'll ever get out.

One very positive development is Wendell Falls (http://www.wendellfalls.com), where in effect a 4,000 home town will be built from scratch and densely fill in the area between Wendell and Knightdale. It will have an exit on to the US 64/264 Bypass, but it is directly adjacent to the NS rail line. So, when the time comes and Eastrans is built, those residents can become like every commuter suburb outside of NYC/Chicago/London. Live in the country (this time in the conurbation of Wen-dale) and rail in to work.

Peace :2cents:

Yes, I missed Clayton :lol: I have now removed it from my list. If we wish to consider Clayton and Sanford, then we need to do the same with Selma and Smithfield. If we want to consider the entire Triangle, then Durham, Chapel Hill, Hillsborough and Roxboro should also be included.

The Wendell Falls development sounds very promising, indeed. Whether it will be a step to the right direction, or not, it is yet to be seen. We heard all these promises for urban and traditional communities that I am not going to get enthusiastic until I see them with my own two eyes. If Eastrans becomes reality, we may end up getting a lot of nice satellite communities, but then again everything looks good on the paper... for now. I am optimistic, but also silent. Do you happen to have any renderings and/or site plans for Wendell Falls. Their website is not very informative.

a new tourist destination for Hillsborough! :eek2:

http://www.fangoria.com/news_article.php?id=6875

http://www.myershousenc.com/blog/index.htm

This is AWESOME!!! I am huge Halloween fan - not only the movies - so I anticipate this guy to make this replica a destination for all Halloween fans!!! Now I am anxious, too. I always thought that we need something like The Nightmare on 13th (http://www.nightmareon13th.com), but such a great attraction would probably work better in DT Raleigh, or DT Durham, in one the many warehouses. Anyway, good move :okay: The Haunted Attraction magazine (http://www.hauntedattraction.com), which is published in North Carolina, will have a great time covering this news.

This is AWESOME!!! I am huge Halloween fan - not only the movies - so I anticipate this guy to make this replica a destination for all Halloween fans!!! Now I am anxious, too. I always thought that we need something like The Nightmare on 13th (http://www.nightmareon13th.com), but such a great attraction would probably work better in DT Raleigh, or DT Durham, in one the many warehouses. Anyway, good move :okay: The Haunted Attraction magazine (http://www.hauntedattraction.com), which is published in North Carolina, will have a great time covering this news.

But i'm afraid of the dark. :cry: :pet:

Yes, I missed Clayton :lol: I have now removed it from my list. If we wish to consider Clayton and Sanford, then we need to do the same with Selma and Smithfield. If we want to consider the entire Triangle, then Durham, Chapel Hill, Hillsborough and Roxboro should also be included.

True, but the US Census Bureau split the Triangle into two MSA's back in 2003. So, I'm really only setting my focus on the Raleigh-Cary MSA 39580. Then, I suppose I should have included Franklinton, Louisburg, Selma and Smithfield. Moore County doesn't fall within our MSA, but it feels like it could be drawn in soon enough.

The Wendell Falls development sounds very promising, indeed. Whether it will be a step to the right direction, or not, it is yet to be seen. We heard all these promises for urban and traditional communities that I am not going to get enthusiastic until I see them with my own two eyes.

From where I'm working at out here in Zebulon, it's going to be a seismic shift from the small towns here in eastern Wake County. But, at the same time there have been some smart-growth advocates in Knightdale, Wendell and Zebulon who have really been looking at how to do it properly. WakeMed's East Healthplex is simply another part of the puzzle which fills in a gap to create a self-sustaining community.

If Eastrans becomes reality, we may end up getting a lot of nice satellite communities, but then again everything looks good on the paper... for now. I am optimistic, but also silent.

It won't quite be the Pennsylvania Main Line or New York Central Hudson Line, but it could still have that same kind of feel.

Do you happen to have any renderings and/or site plans for Wendell Falls. Their website is not very informative.

Nope. I just watch the privately-funded interchange building going on as I shuttle between Raleigh and Zebulon every day.

Peace :2cents:

What is with the peace and pennies at the end of your posts? :rant:

What is with the peace and pennies at the end of your posts?

It's a simple blessing of quiet reflection in a crazy world along with my $0.02 worth of opinion. Nothing more and nothing less. The longer version I use as my .sig goes more along the lines of the Blessing of Francis of Assisi:

Pax tecum et munera magna (Peace and All Good) :wave:

He scares me. :runaway:

Good Morning, Good Sir!

He scares me. :runaway:

Not to worry. I'm just a fellow traveller following my path through Creation. Glad to have you along.

Peace :wave:

^^
You forgot to give g-man your 2 cents :2cents:

Good Afternoon, Good Sir!


You forgot to give g-man your 2 cents :2cents:

Sorry about that. I didn't want to scare him any further...

Peace :2cents:

Don't worry about g-man, he will survive... :lol:

Congrats to Carrboro: Carrboro cited among best 'art towns' in the U.S. (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1187096.html). I am not big in arts, but I do appreciate it when a Triangle municipality receives such a recognition. Great work, Carrboro :okay:

can we unsticky this? It's been over a year since a single post and this forum is a mess.

can we unsticky this? It's been over a year since a single post and this forum is a mess.



Its one thing to say how quiet it has been in this thread, but to unsticky it????? I mean the recession might affect the real world, but it shouldn't have to "layoff" Triangle thread or any notable city for that matter.........when that TTA rail line (what ever form it takes breaks ground) this thread will be useful.....of course that probably be 2020......:ohno:

Happy New Year

Wasn't the Triangle area rumored to be another candidate for the RadioShack Headquarters?

Wasn't the Triangle area rumored to be another candidate for the RadioShack Headquarters?

It's a rumor, yes. There's no substantial news about it that I can find.

can we unsticky this? It's been over a year since a single post and this forum is a mess.

Don't be silly. Apparently there are just too few Triangle forumers to keep this thing going. I'll try to be more active.

One really cool thing that Raleigh has completed in the past year is the new City Plaza (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_200_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/category/Business/Strategic_Planning/Plans_in_Process/Cat-PG-2007212-151157-City_Plaza.html). I went down there for the first time since its completion a few weeks back and was extremely impressed. Despite the cold, pedestrian activity made quite an impression on me. In winter months, there's an ice rink (albeit small as I'm used to a Wisconsin standard) that borders the city's next big development - Charter Square. The plaza is meant to play host to concerts, markets and other various events. Lots of neat LED lighting, slick sculptures and water fountains in this area... very, very neat. It's an excellent gateway into downtown. I'll be sure to post photographs soon. Here's a link to a digital rendering of the area (http://raleigh.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=74).

Charter Square (http://www.craigdavisproperties.com/pages/cso.htm), as I mentioned before, is Raleigh's newest large-scale building project. Shorter in height but matching the glass-themed RBC Tower, Charter Square will rise 21 stories above our main downtown street - Lafayette. It's actually a 2-building project with a total of nearly 450,000 square feet for office, retail and residential uses. There's also to be a 622-space underground city-operated parking structure beneath the two buildings.

Rendering:
http://www.craigdavisproperties.com/images/cso_pics.jpg
Larger Rendering 1 (http://www.craigdavisproperties.com/images/CitySiteOne_R01.jpg) - Larger Rendering 2 (http://www.craigdavisproperties.com/images/CitySiteOne_R02.jpg)

The RBC Tower (http://raleighskyline.com/rbc/) was completed in 2009 and completely transformed the downtown Raleigh skyline. Of course, when you only have two skyscrapers to begin with, anything is an improvement. Of note, however, is that the RBC Tower is the new tallest at 538 feet (second tallest is Two Hannover Square (http://www.godowntownraleigh.com/go/two-hannover-square) at 431 feet).

Here are a couple skyline views with the new tower included - Worth mentioning is that I took these photos before the RBC Tower crown was lit up:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2714143392_d3403318a5_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2713509511_6d36c58fcc_o.jpg

And a daytime view:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2762/4148497397_4ec0562c45_o.jpg

In the first two photographs I posted, you can see Raleigh's new convention center (http://www.raleighconvention.com/). This building is effing sick. It has a gigantic shimmer wall made up 79,464 light and dark aluminum squares that move around in the wind creating an unbelievably spectacular sight - day and night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHjbTcvclFE
Can't see the video? Click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHjbTcvclFE) for the youtube link of the shimmer wall in action.

Photographs (Credit: Holly Jacques):
http://www.raleighconvention.com/Images/shimmer-01.jpg http://www.raleighconvention.com/Images/shimmer-02.jpg

In addition to all that I listed above, there are tons and tons more exciting developments going on in Raleigh and the Triangle area. I'll post more in the coming days as we clearly need a jump start here.

thanks for the pix and info milwaukeemark. i look forward to hearing more in the near future and seeing more pix:)

They're not development related but here are a few photographs from a downtown Raleigh excursion yesterday..

Cool graffiti on Hargett and Boylan
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/756/speakingforamerica.jpg

View of downtown from Boylan Avenue Bridge
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5263/raleightracks.jpg

Cannon practice outside the state capitol building
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7824/36pounder.jpg

Library as it always was, inside the state capitol building
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8392/capitollibrary.jpg

My girlfriend and her friend posing in front of Fayetteville Street
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7626/kendraandchelsea.jpg

Cool LED wall in City Center at the other end of Fayetteville
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6466/citycenter.jpg

Downtown from the south end of Fayetteville
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8739/downtownr.jpg

Shimmer Wall at the Raleigh Convention Center
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6036/raleighconventioncenter.jpg

great pix mark! i love the vintage look of the library, very cool. thanks for posting, can't wait to see more.:cheers:

Post pics of the Triangle post storm....I know there was alot of damage....

Downtown near Shaw U and auditorium
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7349116@N08/5628779482/in/photostream/

Yahoo Pics
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Top-Stories-Photos-Dorothy-Wade-left-sophomore-Shaw-University-leaves-dormitory-Sunday-April/ss/705/im:/110417/480/urn_publicid_ap_org3e7716def9b54f56955b4ce17e47e6cf/#photoViewer=/110417/480/urn_publicid_ap_org3e7716def9b54f56955b4ce17e47e6cf

News and Observer pics
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/04/17/1136400/first-look-tornado-damage-from.html
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/04/17/1136492/storm-aftermath-nc-reports-22.html
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/04/17/1135692/first-look-tornado-damage-in-lockwood.html

Drove through Raleigh a few months back and my son thought the downtown Krispy Kreme was the coolest thing ever.

Any new news at all ? Any hope for Charter Square ?

Hello ?