World Highways Rank [Archive] - Page 2

TheCat

July 12th, 2007, 12:10 AM

I hate it also when they say to motorways highways.
Actually, it simply depends on a person's location. Here in Toronto (and I'm pretty sure everywhere else in North America), when people say "highway", they mean a motorway or whatever you want to call it. Also, it depends on the context. For example, in my city (Toronto), when people say "drive on the highway", it almost always means driving on our 400-series highways. In other contexts it can indeed mean a 2-lane road, but what it does NOT mean is a local city street, and that is what matters to many people.

Also, I think many people in North America do not care about a very strict classification system like the one that exists in many European countries. For example, in Germany, there are the Autobahnen and there are also the numerous other types of -bahnen and -strassen etc., and some of them have different signage, default speed limits, etc. Such specifics do not really exist in North America.

While it indeed may be ambiguous and bad usage of terminology, that is just how most people refer to their "motorways" in other places. For example, I am used to saying (and hearing other people say) "highway" to refer to motorways. If I want to be more specific, I can always describe the structure of the road more properly (e.g. "dual-carriageway"). I am aware of the legal definition of highways here (pretty much any road, paved or not), but that is not how most people use the term.

Oh and by the way, I may be wrong in generalizing, but as far as I know, people in Canada and the US never use the term "motorways" (at least I never heard a person say this word in Toronto). We do say "freeways" somewhat interchangeably with "highways", but as far as I know, "motorway" is a British term that is not used here.

Verso

July 12th, 2007, 12:29 AM

For example, in Germany, there are the Autobahnen and there are also the numerous other types of -bahnenEisenbahnen. :lol:

CborG

July 12th, 2007, 12:38 AM

Melkertbahnen! Sorry, dutch joke;)

radi6404

July 12th, 2007, 12:54 AM

Eisenbahnen. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Verso, who´s the girl on your avater?

CborG

July 12th, 2007, 01:12 AM

^^It's not one girl, but 3. It's K3 from belgium.

Gutovsky

July 12th, 2007, 01:30 AM

WTF?

Explaining:
This road system is composed of actually 4 lanes, being two in the Imigrantes highway and 2 in the Anchieta road (much smaller, built over 40 years ago). As they connect two major urban centers (São Paulo, over 17 million people on the metro area, and Santos, the country's biggest port and over 4 million people), there are many routes that have been opened to try to keep traffic flowing. As the roads also link to the countryside, we often see major traffic jams all along the lanes used for going to São Paulo (or, as we say, "up").
The reason for this apparent mistake is that the routes can be used for both ways, so there's no "right lane" or "left lane". Sometimes there's one road up and 3 down, and so on.
So, actually, there are usually 6 lanes on each direction: 4 on Imigrantes and 2 on Anchieta.
We tend to do this in São Paulo state: the Bandeirantes, another great road we have here, has a side "old sister": Anhanguera.

oliver999

July 13th, 2007, 06:27 AM

2004 dates, by chinese newspaper:

目前，全世界已有80多个国家和地区拥有高速公路，通车总里程超过了23万公里。
　　第一名

美国，目前高速公路总长度为8.8万公里，已完成以州际为核心的高速公路网，其总里程约占世界高速公路总里程的一半，连接了美国所有5万人以上的城镇。
　　第二名

中国，目前突破了3万公里。1988年10月31日，上海至嘉定18.5公里高速公路建成通车，使中国大陆有了高速公路。此后17年间，我国高速公路建设突飞猛进：1999年突破1万公里，跃居世界第四；2000年达到1.6万公里，跃居世界第三；2001年达到1.9万公里，跃居世界第二；2004年8月底突破了3万公里，比世界第三的加拿大多出近一倍。
　　第三名加拿大，共修建了1.65万公里高速公路，而且不征收车辆通行费，所以路上也没有收费站、检查站。
　　第四名德国，拥有1.1万公里高速公路，其中波恩至科隆高速公路是世界上第一条高速公路，建于1932年。
　　第五名法国，目前拥有1万公里高速路，由于采取了大量吸收民间投资的方法，有力地推动了高速公路的建设速度。
translation:
the whole world has 0.23 million KM highways
1: usa 88000 KM
2:china above 30000 KM
3:canada 16500KM
4:germany 11000km
5:france 10000KM

now china has borken 48000KM

vid

July 13th, 2007, 06:43 AM

Borken? They borked it? Bork! Bork! Bork!

Pork! Spork! Mork! Dork! ORK! *runs away*

ChrisZwolle

July 13th, 2007, 08:26 AM

Spain has over 13.500 km. That´s often forgotten!

Occit

July 13th, 2007, 09:17 AM

Venezuela has 3.150 kilometers of highways/motorways/expressways :dunno:

Is the most up-to-date value :)

A map:

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/1791/autovensbu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-13

oliver999

July 13th, 2007, 11:36 AM

Spain has over 13.500 km. That´s often forgotten!

the date in my list is a bit old. :) 2004dates.

ChrisZwolle

July 13th, 2007, 04:30 PM

the date in my list is a bit old. :) 2004dates.

Yeah, the Spanish build tons of Autovia's the last years. Autovias are not always added to such lists, but they're completely up to motorway standards to day. That used to be different a couple of decades ago.

Nephasto

July 13th, 2007, 05:12 PM

Borken? They borked it? Bork! Bork! Bork!

Pork! Spork! Mork! Dork! ORK! *runs away*

:rofl:

Grey Towers

July 14th, 2007, 03:43 AM

Borken means "boogers" in German.

vid

July 14th, 2007, 02:35 PM

SWEET!! :banana:

isaidso

July 24th, 2007, 09:34 AM

Now that is true! :) Germany, powerful and rich.

Powerful? Yes. Rich? Sort of. You haven't been keeping up to date. Germany isn't even in the top 20 in per capita income any more.

vid

July 24th, 2007, 09:46 AM

Germany is the third (soon to be fourth) largest economy in the world. Lichtenstein may have a lot of people making 50,000$ a year, but their GDP is what, 2 billion? :P

isaidso

July 24th, 2007, 10:01 AM

You are confusing GDP with wealth. It is a common mistake made by alot of people. China is still very poor, but it's GDP is by most measures already #3 behind the USA and Japan, and will be #2 very soon. Germany has a smaller GDP than China, but are many times wealthier than the Chinese. The Germans, however, certainly are not rich relative to the citzens of the truly rich nations. 25 years ago they were, but not any more. They have fallen quite far.

Departments of Business Administration and Departments of Economics at universities differentiate between the two because they are completely different measures. A nation's ability to finance infrastructure does depend somewhat on GDP, but it is a massive innaccuracy to label a nation rich based solely on GDP.

vid

July 25th, 2007, 07:50 AM

isaidso

July 25th, 2007, 08:04 AM

I disagree with you totally. Germany is not a poor country at all. IMF statistics adjusted for US dollars in 2006 estimate German GDP per capita at $35,204 which puts them at #19. Certainly not amongst the world's rich nations like the USA ($44,190), Norway ($72,306), or Ireland ($52,440), etc. but hardly poor and destitute like you contend.

I do agree with you on one point: Canada at $38,951 for #15 isn't doing much better. There was a time that we were 30-40% wealthier than the Germans, but look how far we've fallen. We'd better get competitive in a hurry, or we'll fall to German levels of wealth.

Even GDP per capita at PPP doesn't paint an impressive picture for the once mighty Germans: $31,095 for #19 place once again. Canada fairs marginally better by this more accurate measure: $35,494 for #9. I was wrong when I said Germany wasn't even in the top 20. Seems like they've just squeeked in at #19. I stand corrected.

I wish we had more in common with Germany when it came to infrastructure though. They really invest in it and maintain it better than us. Some Germans complain about their roads and transit, but they would be gobsmacked if they saw what most Canadians are satisfied with.

ChrisZwolle

July 25th, 2007, 11:42 AM

Income per capita doesn't says everything. It's more interesting what you can do with that money. Like you have an income of 72.000 dollars, but prices are much higher than countries with 30.000 dollars of income.

isaidso

July 26th, 2007, 04:58 AM

Chris1491: very true. As I stated, GNP ALONE does not give one the entire picture. One of the constraints in Canada isn't the money alloted to highways, but the sheer magnitude of highways Canada has needed to build to connect the towns and cities together from east to west. When you consider that from Atlantic to Pacific, Canada is wider than the Atlantic Ocean, you start to appreciate the monster task at hand for a country of only 32 million.

Not only highways, but railways, seaways, ports, electricity grids, etc. It is a huge financial burden. I'm surprised that some of the highways are in as good shape as they are.

Deus Ex

August 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM

USA is so full of good roads, no wonder its also full of rules.

vid

August 10th, 2007, 09:38 PM

ChrisZwolle

September 17th, 2007, 09:19 PM

European Union;

http://i1.************/6bkvfkj.png

isaidso

September 20th, 2007, 09:43 PM

Talking back to GDP per capita last night, the province with the highest GDP per capita in Canada isn't Alberta or Ontario... It's Northwest Territories. Using your logic, the NWT would be the richest parts of Canada, even though it has some of the worse living conditions.

They don't get to keep their natural resources revenue though.

First of all the Northwest Territories isn't a province. Secondly, read up on what PPP means before you make silly comparisons. You equated size of an economy with wealth. That is what is being questioned here. GDP per capita is a much better indicator because it strips out population. You have failed to take into account PPP in making your NWT comparison. If you feel that the size of an economy is a good indicator of the wealth of people, go ahead. No one can tell you any different, if you aren't open to information.

Jeroen669

September 21st, 2007, 07:55 AM

European Union;

http://i1.************/6bkvfkj.png

And now the amount of motorways compared to the population. I would think those numbers would be much worse for eg the Netherlands, Belgium and Swiss. ;)

Wallaroo

September 25th, 2007, 09:37 PM

Expressway: Defined as at a highway with at least two lanes and at least one shoulder. Must have a median between the two directions.

United States of America:
total: 6,407,637 km
paved: 4,164,964 km (including 74,950 km of expressways)
unpaved: 2,242,673 km (2004)

you guys want to find the number of EXPRESSWAYS, the underlined number above. The huge 6,000,000 km thing is simply the amount of highways, defined as "any important automobile transit route."

phillipines has very, very few kilometers of motorways. Not simply because it's not a wealthy country, but because there are 8200 islands in the country.

anyways back to the numbers:

United States of America:
total: 6,407,637 km
paved: 4,164,964 km (including 74,950 km of expressways)
unpaved: 2,242,673 km (2004)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.5 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 8.25 km

People's Republic of China:
total: 1,809,829 km
paved: 1,447,682 km (with at least 29,745 km of expressways)
unpaved: 362,147 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .23 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 3.23 km

India:
total: 3,851,440 km
paved: 2,411,001 km
unpaved: 1,440,439 km (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: no official data, but obviously lower than China
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: same as above

Canada:
total: 1,408,900 km
paved: 497,342 km (including 16,906 km of expressways)
unpaved: 911,558 km (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 5.67 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 1.87 km

Russia:
total: 537,289 km
paved: 362,133 km
unpaved: 175,156 km (2001)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: Very low, might not even be 2,500 km of expressways in Russia. I'd say far below Indian levels.
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: same as above

Germany:
total: 231,581 km
paved: 231,581 km (including 12,037 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.6 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 37.14 km

France:
total: 891,290 km
paved: 891,290 km (including 10,390 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.8 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 20.4 km

United Kingdom:
total: 387,674 km
paved: 387,674 km (including 3,523 km of expressways) (2004)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .667 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 16.67 km

Italy:
total: 479,688 km
paved: 479,688 km (including 6,620 km of expressways) (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.20 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 24.14 km

Spain:
total: 666,292 km
paved: 659,629 km (including 12,009 km of expressways)
unpaved: 6,663 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 3.375 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 27 km

Poland:
total: 423,997 km
paved: 295,356 km (including 484 km of expressways)
unpaved: 128,641 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .143 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 1.83 km

Romania:
total: 198,817 km
paved: 60,043 km (including 228 km of expressways)
unpaved: 138,774 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .098 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: .957 km

Turkey:
total: 354,421 km
paved: 147,404 km (including 1,883 km of expressways)
unpaved: 207,017 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .261 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 2.44 km
**plz turks, do not come here and yell at me because "turkey actually has eleventy billion kilometers of expressways," im using CIA figures for all countries**

Greece:
total: 116,470 km
paved: 106,920 km (including 880 km of expressways)
unpaved: 9,550 km (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.41 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 11.54 km
**same goes for you, greeks; just to calm you, i did the two calculations with 1,500 km of motorways because if I didn't hideously exaggerate the number, the way you guys always do, you'd complain**

the Netherlands:
total: 116,500 km
paved: 104,850 km (including 2,235 km of expressways)
unpaved: 11,650 km (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.41 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 75 km

Belgium:
total: 149,757 km
paved: 117,110 km (including 1,747 km of expressways)
unpaved: 32,647 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.8 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 60 km

Denmark:
total: 71,847 km
paved: 71,847 km (including 920 km of expressways) (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.85 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 23.3 km

Czech Republic:
total: 127,672 km
paved: 127,672 km (including 618 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .61 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: .802 km

Slovenia:
total: 38,400 km
paved: 38,400 km (including 479 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.40 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 24.0 km

Croatia:
total: 28,588 km
paved: 28,588 km (including 1,047 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.33 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 19.1 km

Austria:
total: 133,718 km
paved: 133,718 km (including 1,677 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.125 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 20.48 km

Switzerland:
total: 71,220 km
paved: 71,220 km (including 1,726 of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.4 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 45

TO SUMMARIZE:

WORLD:
Nation with greatest amount of expressways: USA
Nation with most kilometers of expressways per capita: the Netherlands
Nation with highest density of expressway: the Netherlands
Nation with most expressways per entire GDP: Croatia
Major Global Power with LOWEST density of expressways: USA

N. America (Canada, USA):
km's per capita: Canada
density: Canada
km/GDP: Canada

EU-15 Large Countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain):
km's per capita: Spain
density: Germany
km/GDP: Spain

EU-15 Little Countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, Greece, Denmark, + Switzerland):
km's per capita: the Netherlands
density: the Netherlands
^^ don't get too awed by the Netherlands, the country is flat as a board
km/GDP: Greece

E. Europe (Croatia, Poland, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Romania, Turkey):
km's per captia: Slovenia or Croatia
density: Slovenia
km/GDP: Croatia

yes i assembled this entire post myself.Very nice homework dude! :banana:

So Canada is the country in the world with most expressways per citizen. I might add that Denmark (as we speak) have at least 1100 km of expressways, which means that only Austria, Switzerland, and Luxemburg have more per citizen here in Europe.

I am amazed that the UK only have 3523 km - those poor fools! :lol:

Verso

September 26th, 2007, 01:05 AM

Very nice homework dude! :banana:

So Canada is the country in the world with most expressways per citizen. I might add that Denmark (as we speak) have at least 1100 km of expressways, which means that only Austria, Switzerland, and Luxemburg have more per citizen here in Europe.And Spain, Slovenia and Croatia. ;)

I am amazed that the UK only have 3523 km - those poor fools! :lol:The UK has many roads with motorway standards - A(M) - and expressways (A). And what's with the "fools"?!

Wallaroo

September 26th, 2007, 01:22 AM

And Spain, Slovenia and Croatia. ;)Ah yes, I forgot about them - times changes rapidily in Eastern Europe. But Spain does not have near that many motorways (officially) on the European road maps that Ive seen. Most of them have status as dual carriageways, and it seems to be more than 80% of the network.

Verso

September 26th, 2007, 01:28 AM

^^ You're talking about "autovía"s. There's no technical difference between "autovía"s and "autopista"s (especially newer autovías). The only difference is that autopista is charged, whereas autovía is toll-free.

Verso

September 26th, 2007, 01:43 AM

Ah yes, I forgot about them - times changes rapidily in Eastern Europe.Actually Slovenia and Croatia are world of their own, when it comes to density of motorways, (other) Eastern European countries have yet to catch us.

rick1016

September 26th, 2007, 06:52 PM

Canada...yeah!!

Nephasto

September 26th, 2007, 11:44 PM

And Spain, Slovenia and Croatia. ;)

The UK has many roads with motorway standards - A(M) - and expressways (A). And what's with the "fools"?!

I'm sure the A(M) are included in those 3523 km's, as they are full motorways.

As for the A's which are dual carrieageways, those are VERY far away from having motorway standards! Plaged by roundabouts, no emergency lanes, etc...

I've been in the UK this summer and all I can say is that their road network is really poor. Even the motorways, although they are very good (with 2x3 all the way) are always jammed.

Don't take this as an attack on the UK: it's a beautifull country, and I like it very much... just not the road network. ;)

Verso

September 27th, 2007, 01:09 PM

^^ Then it's true that their motorway network rather sucks. :D

Wallaroo

September 28th, 2007, 12:40 AM

I'm sure the A(M) are included in those 3523 km's, as they are full motorways.

As for the A's which are dual carrieageways, those are VERY far away from having motorway standards! Plaged by roundabouts, no emergency lanes, etc...

I've been in the UK this summer and all I can say is that their road network is really poor. Even the motorways, although they are very good (with 2x3 all the way) are always jammed.

Don't take this as an attack on the UK: it's a beautifull country, and I like it very much... just not the road network. ;)Maybe its because the Brits are actually smarter than the rest of us. They found out long time ago that investing in new motorways only mean more cars - at least thats the governments argument for not building more of them. The UK may have a theoretical need for at least 10.000 km of motorways, but its simply not worth the money and effort.

Svartmetall

September 29th, 2007, 07:35 AM

Maybe its because the Brits are actually smarter than the rest of us. They found out long time ago that investing in new motorways only mean more cars - at least thats the governments argument for not building more of them. The UK may have a theoretical need for at least 10.000 km of motorways, but its simply not worth the money and effort.

The only problem with the UK is that they haven't spent multitudes on the rail network whilst neglecting the road network. European countries in general invest far FAR more in both networks resulting in almost total mobility by whatever means the population demands (road/rail et al).

ChrisZwolle

September 29th, 2007, 04:51 PM

I'd calculated the amount of freeway-grade roads in the United States, with the newest RandMcNally Road Atlas 2008. It was quite a lot of work, containing over 1400 lines in Excel spreadsheet.

I haven't got the exact number, that's on my laptop, but the amount was close to 96.000 kilometer

ChrisZwolle

September 30th, 2007, 11:24 AM

The exact number is 59.414 miles or 95.597 kilometers, including all states and the district of Columbia, but not Puerto Rico and other overseas territories (which don't have freeways anyway, i thought).

Jeroen669

September 30th, 2007, 04:42 PM

Would that be much compared to the population, or to the surface?

ChrisZwolle

September 30th, 2007, 07:17 PM

Yeah, US has 300 mln population and 96.000 km of motorway
Germany has 80 mln population and 12.500 km of motorway

You do the math.

But US population is much centered along larger cities, and has long lone distances in the west, so long, we can't imagine such distances in Europe (except Russia perhaps).

OMH

October 1st, 2007, 09:25 PM

Canada...yeah!!

LOL it doesnt evn have one expressway throug the whole country...the only highways are around toronto and montreal,together maybe 2000km but not more(at least measured by the european standarts!)

TheCat

October 2nd, 2007, 03:01 AM

LOL it doesnt evn have one expressway throug the whole country...the only highways are around toronto and montreal,together maybe 2000km but not more(at least measured by the european standarts!)

Not accurate. There are about 17,000km worth of expressways in Canada. They are mostly where the population is. You don't need a 4-lane highway (or even a paved road in many cases) in many areas of the north. Having said this, however, it is true that Canada's expressway network could be much better. And yes, there is indeed no expressway through the whole country, which is also somewhat unfortunate (but not necessarily a concern having the highest priority at the moment). We can always use the US interstate system to cross the country, if we need to :D

Wallaroo

October 2nd, 2007, 03:44 AM

Not accurate. There are about 17,000km worth of expressways in Canada. They are mostly where the population is. You don't need a 4-lane highway (or even a paved road in many cases) in many areas of the north. Having said this, however, it is true that Canada's expressway network could be much better. And yes, there is indeed no expressway through the whole country, which is also somewhat unfortunate (but not necessarily a concern having the highest priority at the moment). We can always use the US interstate system to cross the country, if we need to :DIt would make Canada look a lot better on a road map if they had a coast to coast freeway.

Is the speed limit still only 100 km/h?

TheCat

October 2nd, 2007, 05:10 AM

It would make Canada look a lot better on a road map if they had a coast to coast freeway.

Is the speed limit still only 100 km/h?

In Ontario it is 100km/h, in some provinces it is 110km/h.

isaidso

October 2nd, 2007, 11:33 AM

Surprisingly to foreigners, the least substantial highways connecting east to west are in Ontario. Travelling east from Manitoba, the highway is one lane in each direction for well over 1000 km. This region, northern Ontario, is twice the size of France, but is home to only about 800,000 people. Ontario has, by far, the most inferior section of highway in a cross-Canada road trip. Ontario's expressways only serve the extreme south of the province rather than serving to connect the country together.

You can drive from Halifax, Nova Scotia on the Atlantic Ocean all the way through Quebec on an expressway with only small sections served by a less substantial road. Travelling from here through Ontario to western Canada is different story altogether. British Columbia on the Pacific Ocean is the only other major stretch with very little of it connected by expressway. The Rocky Mountains is the major reason this hasn't happened already.

ssiguy2

October 10th, 2007, 06:20 AM

I do NOT beleive for a minute that Canada has 17000 km of freeway..........I think even 5000 would be pushing it.
Is this freeway length or freeway lanes.....there is a big difference.

ChrisZwolle

October 10th, 2007, 10:39 AM

i guess 17.000 km of highway, which aren't necessarily all freeways...

Some articles also states Russia has 20.000km of motorway, which are in fact mostly national roads (magistrales).

ChrisZwolle

October 11th, 2007, 10:42 PM

Spain has 12.946 km of motorway roads.

This amount is growing steadily with over 100km each year.

kix111

October 12th, 2007, 09:04 PM

^^12.942km?? are you sure its not 12,942km??

GNU

October 12th, 2007, 09:12 PM

Wow, Germany is a poor country! They are, per capita, 1200 dollars poorer than Canadians. They're so destitute!

And yet in Canada, we have this (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/24/school-fire.html). And lots like it. Funny.

You'd think that would be more common in Germany... a poor country.

What the heck are you on about?
Germany is the 3rd biggest economy in the world. The reason why weve fallen in terms of gdp per capita is solely down to the fact that western Germany had to absorb the communist GDR.

GDP per capita:

Germany (with absorbed communist east ;) ): $35,072
Canada: $38,951

GNU

October 12th, 2007, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by OettingerCroat View Post
Expressway: Defined as at a highway with at least two lanes and at least one shoulder. Must have a median between the two directions.

United States of America:
total: 6,407,637 km
paved: 4,164,964 km (including 74,950 km of expressways)

unpaved: 2,242,673 km (2004)

you guys want to find the number of EXPRESSWAYS, the underlined number above. The huge 6,000,000 km thing is simply the amount of highways, defined as "any important automobile transit route."

phillipines has very, very few kilometers of motorways. Not simply because it's not a wealthy country, but because there are 8200 islands in the country.

anyways back to the numbers:

United States of America:
total: 6,407,637 km
paved: 4,164,964 km (including 74,950 km of expressways)
unpaved: 2,242,673 km (2004)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.5 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 8.25 km

People's Republic of China:
total: 1,809,829 km
paved: 1,447,682 km (with at least 29,745 km of expressways)
unpaved: 362,147 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .23 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 3.23 km

India:
total: 3,851,440 km
paved: 2,411,001 km
unpaved: 1,440,439 km (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: no official data, but obviously lower than China
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: same as above

Canada:
total: 1,408,900 km
paved: 497,342 km (including 16,906 km of expressways)
unpaved: 911,558 km (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 5.67 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 1.87 km

Russia:
total: 537,289 km
paved: 362,133 km
unpaved: 175,156 km (2001)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: Very low, might not even be 2,500 km of expressways in Russia. I'd say far below Indian levels.
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: same as above

Germany:
total: 231,581 km
paved: 231,581 km (including 12,037 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.6 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 37.14 km

France:
total: 891,290 km
paved: 891,290 km (including 10,390 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.8 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 20.4 km

United Kingdom:
total: 387,674 km
paved: 387,674 km (including 3,523 km of expressways) (2004)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .667 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 16.67 km

Italy:
total: 479,688 km
paved: 479,688 km (including 6,620 km of expressways) (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.20 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 24.14 km

Spain:
total: 666,292 km
paved: 659,629 km (including 12,009 km of expressways)
unpaved: 6,663 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 3.375 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 27 km

Poland:
total: 423,997 km
paved: 295,356 km (including 484 km of expressways)
unpaved: 128,641 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .143 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 1.83 km

Romania:
total: 198,817 km
paved: 60,043 km (including 228 km of expressways)
unpaved: 138,774 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .098 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: .957 km

Turkey:
total: 354,421 km
paved: 147,404 km (including 1,883 km of expressways)
unpaved: 207,017 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .261 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 2.44 km
**plz turks, do not come here and yell at me because "turkey actually has eleventy billion kilometers of expressways," im using CIA figures for all countries**

Greece:
total: 116,470 km
paved: 106,920 km (including 880 km of expressways)
unpaved: 9,550 km (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.41 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 11.54 km
**same goes for you, greeks; just to calm you, i did the two calculations with 1,500 km of motorways because if I didn't hideously exaggerate the number, the way you guys always do, you'd complain**

the Netherlands:
total: 116,500 km
paved: 104,850 km (including 2,235 km of expressways)
unpaved: 11,650 km (1999)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.41 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 75 km

Belgium:
total: 149,757 km
paved: 117,110 km (including 1,747 km of expressways)
unpaved: 32,647 km (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.8 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 60 km

Denmark:
total: 71,847 km
paved: 71,847 km (including 920 km of expressways) (2002)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 1.85 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 23.3 km

Czech Republic:
total: 127,672 km
paved: 127,672 km (including 618 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: .61 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: .802 km

Slovenia:
total: 38,400 km
paved: 38,400 km (including 479 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.40 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 24.0 km

Croatia:
total: 28,588 km
paved: 28,588 km (including 1,047 km of expressways) (2006)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.33 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 19.1 km

Austria:
total: 133,718 km
paved: 133,718 km (including 1,677 km of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.125 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 20.48 km

Switzerland:
total: 71,220 km
paved: 71,220 km (including 1,726 of expressways) (2003)
EXPRESSWAYS PER 10,000 PEOPLE: 2.4 km
EXPRESSWAYS PER 1000 SQ. KM OF LAND: 45

TO SUMMARIZE:

WORLD:
Nation with greatest amount of expressways: USA
Nation with most kilometers of expressways per capita: the Netherlands
Nation with highest density of expressway: the Netherlands
Nation with most expressways per entire GDP: Croatia
Major Global Power with LOWEST density of expressways: USA

N. America (Canada, USA):
km's per capita: Canada
density: Canada
km/GDP: Canada

EU-15 Large Countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain):
km's per capita: Spain
density: Germany
km/GDP: Spain

EU-15 Little Countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, Greece, Denmark, + Switzerland):
km's per capita: the Netherlands
density: the Netherlands
don't get too awed by the Netherlands, the country is flat as a board
km/GDP: Greece

E. Europe (Croatia, Poland, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Romania, Turkey):
km's per captia: Slovenia or Croatia
density: Slovenia
km/GDP: Croatia

yes i assembled this entire post myself.

That list is nonsense!
When it comes to highways Germany ranks 3rd behind the US and China

http://www.bmvbs.de/

As usual not all german highways have been compiled here such as federal highways etc..
Nobody in his right mind could claim that either France, Britain, Italy or Spain, (which gets its infrastructure funded by EU money coming mainly from Germany) have a bigger road- or highway network than Germany.
Even to think that Austria has half the number of highway km than Germany is utterly ludicrous. :bash:

ChrisZwolle

October 12th, 2007, 09:31 PM

^^ I am working to make a good list of which country has more expressways/motorways;

France: Autoroute + Voie Expresse
Germany: Autobahn + Gelbe Autobahn
Spain: Autopista + Autovía

All of them are in the high end 12.000km of these roads. Spain builds roads in a much faster pace as France or Germany, completing hundreds of kilometers annually. If Spain is not the 3rd in the world now, it will be soon.

Italy is out of the question, has much lesser Autostrada's and Superstrada's as the 3 countries mentioned above.

However, Spanish Autovías have the highest design standards today. Gelbe Autobahnen and Voie Expresses have usually a lower speed limit as their Autoroutes/Autobahnen. Autovías and Autopistas have the same speed limit.

GNU

October 12th, 2007, 09:32 PM

You are confusing GDP with wealth. It is a common mistake made by alot of people. China is still very poor, but it's GDP is by most measures already #3 behind the USA and Japan, and will be #2 very soon. Germany has a smaller GDP than China, but are many times wealthier than the Chinese. The Germans, however, certainly are not rich relative to the citzens of the truly rich nations. 25 years ago they were, but not any more. They have fallen quite far.

Chinas economy is still the 4th largest in the world with $2.68 trillion
Germany is the 3rd biggest with $2.89 trillion
And China is not expected to get past Japan before 2015 somewhen.

GNU

October 12th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Spain builds roads in a much faster pace as France or Germany, completing hundreds of kilometers annually. If Spain is not the 3rd in the world now, it will be soon.

Spain doesnt see nearly the traffic that Germany has for crying out loud.
Germany has by far the highest number of licensed cars (around twice as many as in Britain for example), it is a country which serves as an automotive hub for Europe in terms of transportation due to its geographical location.
Furthermore Spain gets shitloads of money from Germany, Britain and France to bring its infrastructure up to date.
Theres also no need for an extensive road network as youll have it in Germany.

GNU

October 12th, 2007, 09:44 PM

There was a time that we were 30-40% wealthier than the Germans, but look how far we've fallen.

And when was that supposed to be? In 1945?
I doubt that Canada was ahead of Germany in terms of gdp per capita since the 60s up until 1990 when we had to absorb the GDR which brought our gdp per capita down quite heavily.

Verso

October 12th, 2007, 09:45 PM

Europeans usually use period instead of comma, so Chris just made a mistake.

EDIT: I didn't notice there's one more page to read, I'm referring to the guy from Shanghai.

KIWIKAAS

October 12th, 2007, 10:10 PM

Spain doesnt see nearly the traffic that Germany has for crying out loud.

They have Europe's busiest freeway

Germany has by far the highest number of licensed cars (around twice as many as in Britain for example), it is a country which serves as an automotive hub for Europe in terms of transportation due to its geographical location.
Furthermore Spain gets shitloads of money from Germany, Britain and France to bring its infrastructure up to date.
Theres also no need for an extensive road network as youll have it in Germany.

Madrid has the most extensive urban freeway network in Europe. No shortage of traffic either.
Why wouldnt you need as an extensive network as Germany? The country needs to be well connected domestically aswell as internationally

Smelser

October 12th, 2007, 11:22 PM

In summary, yeah, 17-18k seems very realistic for Canada.

Personally, I don't think the 15,000 plus kilometres of expressway is valid, if by this we mean a divided, multi-lane, contolled access highway with no stop signals, only grade-separated interchanges. If that definition is used, there would probably be between 5 and 10 thousand kilometres of expressway, or freeway, or parkway, or whatever term one prefers.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 12:44 PM

I calculate Germany have 12.624 kilometer of roads, classified as an Autobahn. However, some Autobahns have the lack of emergency lanes.

Another 1.561 kilometer is classified as "Autobahnähnlich" in the ADAC 1:150.000 road atlas.

This would bring the total amount in Germany to 14.185 kilometers.

However, there is one "but".

A lot of Autobahnähnliche (Motorway-like) roads are urban arterials with grade separated intersections. They often have the lack of emergency lanes, and proper on and offramps. They also have often a bad geometry, and a speed limit lower as 80km/h.

Some Autobahnähnliche roads doesn't have any median or middle barrier at all, these are not taken into the account of 1.561 kilometers.

However, a lot of Autobahnähnliche roads are fully up to motorway standards, sometimes even without a speed limit. Therefore, the number of 14.185 kilometers cannot all be taken into account of "motorway-grade roads".

Therefore, a direct comparison with Spain cannot be objectively made. Spanish Autovías are always up to motorway design standards, and German Gelbe Autobahnen do not always have full motorway features.

However, the discussion will dissapear within a few years, because Spains total motorway-grade length will soon be larger as all Autobahnen and Autobahnähnlich combined. In 2007, Spain is due to open 560 kilometers of Autovía and Autopista. This pace is likely to continue the next few years, since a lot of old Carretera Nacionals (National roads) are being rebuild to motorway standards. By 2010, Spain have likely overtaken Germany with ease on all classes.

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 01:29 PM

^ It's also bigger than Germany. Thanks for the numbers! How's France doing in enlarging its network? It's even bigger than Spain.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 01:33 PM

They have Europe's busiest freeway

And?

Madrid has the most extensive urban freeway network in Europe.

Oh common, give me a source for this.

No shortage of traffic either.
Why wouldnt you need as an extensive network as Germany? The country needs to be well connected domestically aswell as internationally

Spains population is much smaller than Germanys for starters.
The number of licensed cars is far smaller.
Spain gets its infrastructure funded by EU money, namely by Germany, Britain, France and Italy.
Spains is geographically far more isolated than Germany.
Germany borders to many populous countries whose motorists all have to go through Germany when they want to drive through Europe.
The traffic is immense here and bigger than in any other european country.
Spain on the other hand borders only to Portugal and France.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 01:36 PM

^ It's also bigger than Germany. Thanks for the numbers! How's France doing in enlarging its network? It's even bigger than Spain.

No it isnt for heavens sake.
Not even remotely so.
How could it possibly be bigger?
Ive provided a source from the german governemnt which states that Germany ranks 3rd in termns of highway km.
Do you really want to tell us that Spain ranks 3rd? Especially since the country saw minimal investment prior to being an EU-member in its infrastructure?

KIWIKAAS

October 13th, 2007, 01:37 PM

^^
Germany doent have the busiest roads in Europe.

Just to illustrate: The worlds busiest freeway is in a country with a population density of 3½ per km² - namely Route401 in Toronto

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 01:38 PM

ITherefore, a direct comparison with Spain cannot be objectively made. Spanish Autovías are always up to motorway design standards, and German Gelbe Autobahnen do not always have full motorway features.

Yeah, its exactly the other way round here.
Spanish roads are being counted as freeways which wouldnt get that trademark in Germany.

However, the discussion will dissapear within a few years, because Spains total motorway-grade length will soon be larger as all Autobahnen and Autobahnähnlich combined.

Nonsense
Theyll never have a highway network that could compare to Germanys in terms of length.
Why dont you give us a source for your claim here?

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 01:45 PM

^^
Germany doent have the busiest roads in Europe.

Of course it has.
We may not have the busiest highway, but thats down to federal reasons, which means that the traffic is evenly spreaded out.

lpioe

October 13th, 2007, 01:56 PM

And?

Oh common, give me a source for this.

Spains population is much smaller than Germanys for starters.
The number of licensed cars is far smaller.
Spain gets its infrastructure funded by EU money, namely by Germany, Britain, France and Italy.
Spains is geographically far more isolated than Germany.
Germany borders to many populous countries whose motorists all have to go through Germany when they want to drive through Europe.
The traffic is immense here and bigger than in any other european country.
Spain on the other hand borders only to Portugal and France.

The question here is not which country 'deserves' the most motorways, but which country has them.
And Spain has more motorway-like roads than germany, maybe not today but surely in 2-3 years. That's a fact.
And a source for Madrid having the most extensive motorway network in Europe? Just check a road map...

Jeroen669

October 13th, 2007, 02:02 PM

Just to illustrate: The worlds busiest freeway is in a country with a population density of 3½ per km² - namely Route401 in Toronto

Like that says something. The density of the country says nothing about the density in cities or urban agglomerations.

KIWIKAAS

October 13th, 2007, 02:08 PM

^^
In reponse to GNU's statement about population density in Spain as opposed to Germany earlier in the thread

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:10 PM

The question here is not which country 'deserves' the most motorways, but which country has them.
And Spain has more motorway-like roads than germany, maybe not today but surely in 2-3 years. That's a fact.
And a source for Madrid having the most extensive motorway network in Europe? Just check a road map...

Yes, give me a source pls.
Heres mine btw: (from the german state department for traffic and city developments)

Das Netz der Bundesfernstraßen umfasst heute über 12.500 km Autobahnen und rund 41.000 km Bundesstraßen und bildet damit das dichteste Fernstraßennetz Europas. Obwohl die Fernstraßen nur rund 30 Prozent (bei den Autobahnen sogar nur 5 Prozent) des Gesamtnetzes darstellen, werden knapp 50 Prozent (bzw. auf BAB über 30 Prozent) der Fahrleistungen auf diesen Straßen abgewickelt.

http://www.bmvbs.de/Verkehr/Strasse-,1442/Neubau-Erweiterung-von-Autobah.htm

Deutschland hat eines der dichtesten Autobahnnetze der Welt und mit 12.044 Kilometern nach dem Interstate Highway System (75.376 km) in den USA und dem National Trunk Highway System (45.400 km) der Volksrepublik China das drittlängste (Quelle: Bundesministerium für Verkehr, Bau und Stadtentwicklung).

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn_%28Deutschland%29

btw: it also mentions that the highway network makes up for only 5 percent of the total network in Germany.

Now tell me something: How is Spain suposed to surpass Germany in this area, when:

a: the country depends on EU donations
b: the number of licensed cars is far far smaller
c: the population is far smaller
d: it hasnt got nearly as much traffic

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:17 PM

^^
In reponse to GNU's statement about population density in Spain as opposed to Germany earlier in the thread

Dont get you point here.

Germany: Population: 82,314,900
Density: 230.9 /km² (50th)

Spain: Popualtion: 45,116,894
Density: 79 people per km2 /km² (106th)

and oh:

By its central position in Europe, Germany is an important transportation hub. This is reflected in its dense and modern transportation networks. Probably most famous is the extensive motorway (Autobahn) network that ranks worldwide third largest in its total length and features lack of blanket speed limits on the majority of routes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany#Infrastructure

That should have been settled then :)

willo

October 13th, 2007, 02:23 PM

Now tell me something: How is Spain suposed to surpass Germany in this area, when:

a: the country depends on EU donations
b: the number of licensed cars is far far smaller
c: the population is far smaller
d: it hasnt got nearly as much traffic

a: not true
b: and?¿?¿
c: and¿?¿?
d: and?¿?¿

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:31 PM

So according to you Spain isnt a net receiver of EU funds?

At the heart of Spain’s concerns lies the fact that comparing Spain’s financial balance with the EU in 2000-06 and 2007-13, its net balance with the EU, which will have reached €48.7 billion in 2000-06, will be reduced to approximately €5 billion in 2007-13. This is due to both increased contributions to the budget, because of its relatively greater economic growth, and to reduced receipts from the EU budget as it ceases to qualify for cohesion, structural and agricultural funds. The Spanish Government recognises that its situation within the EU has changed to the better and that this will mean less financing from the EU budget than in the past. Spain accepts that its GDP is now almost at the average EU level (98.2% of EU-25 and 90% of EU-15). Nevertheless, it still seeks to ensure a smooth transition because its goal is to avoid becoming a net contributor before it reaches full real convergence with the EU-15. Thus, for a long time a net receiver of EU funds, Spain may now end up being a net contributor to the EU budget. Hence, the key question for Spain’s negotiators is not whether Spain will be a net contributor to the budget before 2013, which is largely discounted, but whether Spain is to suffer a sudden and abrupt loss of funds or if it will enjoy a mild and moderate phasing-out

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:NqkuvjwiTBsJ:www.realinstitutoelcano.org/analisis/921.asp+eu+Spain+net+receiver&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=de

Structural Funds and Cohesion Funds are funds allocated by the European Union for two related purposes, firstly support for the poorer regions of Europe, and, secondly, support for integrating European infrastructure especially in the transport sector. Current programmes run from 1 January 2000 to 31 December 2006, with €54.4 billion budget for Structural Funds, and €18bn for the Cohesion Fund.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 02:44 PM

Looks like someone is totally offtopic and jealous too.

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 02:44 PM

GNU, you're a troll.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:45 PM

So I guess we can conclude with this:

Length of highways:

1. USA
2. China
3. Germany

:yes:

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 02:47 PM

Yeah, its exactly the other way round here.
Spanish roads are being counted as freeways which wouldnt get that trademark in Germany.

This is a complete bullshit, and someone seems to be so in favor of Germany, adequate discussion isn't possible.

Nonsense
Theyll never have a highway network that could compare to Germanys in terms of length.
Why dont you give us a source for your claim here?

Dude, things change. Youre ridiculous horny for Germany makes no sense. My source is already given.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:47 PM

GNU, you're a troll.

Why am I a troll now?
Ive given various sources which show that Germany has the most highway km in Europe. I guess thats enough for some people to call me a troll.
On the other hand none of you guys has provided me with a source that would support the claim that Spain has a bigger highway network.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM

So I guess we can conclude with this:

Length of highways:

1. USA
2. China
3. Germany

:yes:

Old list. I'm compiling a new one right now, but it takes time, Google Earth, a map and calculator (Excel).

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Dude, things change. Youre ridiculous horny for Germany makes no sense. My source is already given.

Where pls?
Im arguing on a rational basis here.
And Im right when I say that its nonsense to claim that Austria has a highway network that is half the size of Germanys or when, pray, some claim that Spains highwy network is bigger than Germanys.
It just doesnt make any sense!

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Chris, I'll let you handle him. :D

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 02:52 PM

Old list. I'm compiling a new one right now, but it takes time, Google Earth, a map and calculator (Excel).

So you would not trust the german government on this issue?

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 03:06 PM

So you would not trust the german government on this issue?

Because that list is at least from 2006. Spain builds motorways much faster as Germany, over 560km this year, so it has overtaken Germany on the list. I'm not sure on France, i'm calculating it now.

Wikipedia stinks as a source, it's full of lists made by SSC-like guys who wants to make their country look better as it is.

or when, pray, some claim that Spains highwy network is bigger than Germanys.
It just doesnt make any sense!

Why doesn't it make sense? Because Germany should have the biggest motorway network in your opinion?

It's just a matter of time, countries like India and Brazil are gonna overtake Germany too once.

KIWIKAAS

October 13th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Spain is really taking off. It has already passed Germany on the HDI stats, Madrids Airport is now hard on the heals of Amsterdam for Europes 4th possition, transport infrastructure is beiing developed at a much faster pace than most EU countries. All quite exciting really

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 03:14 PM

It's just a matter of time, countries like India and Brazil are gonna overtake Germany too once.And what about Canada? What's with those 15,000 km? I was never too convinced about that.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 03:21 PM

And what about Canada? What's with those 15,000 km? I was never too convinced about that.

Me neither.

Canada has a lot of grade intersectioned express roads. Those are 2x2 but don't have controlled acces. I guess those are taken into account. Again, SSC and Wikipedia are full of people who want to make their country looks better.

I also have seen unrealistic figures about Russia, Mexico, Australia and India.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 03:26 PM

I already encountered 3 different figures for Autoroute length on French wikipedia;

1) The Autoroute list
2) The Autoroute individual article
3) My calculating with the best French maps available (Michelin 1:200.000 atlas).

I am now following my own calculations, it takes more time, but Germany, Spain and France are quite close to eachother, i want to be sure.

lpioe

October 13th, 2007, 03:37 PM

GNU, never ever quote Wikipedia again and say afterwards it's settled. Anyone can edit their pages in a few seconds.
And as Chris said your german source is probably outdated.
And even if Germany has at the moment the 3rd largest motorway network in the world, Spain is very very close and will surpass is soon.
Just check a road map and look how many motorways under contruction there are in Spain and how many in Germany.
And yes Germany has a bigger population and more cars, but in Spain you need less daily traffic to build a motorway then in Germany. Noone questions that german motorways are on average busier than spanish one.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 04:45 PM

GNU, never ever quote Wikipedia again and say afterwards it's settled.

Youve obviously never read my posts properly since I not only gave two independent Wiki links but also a link from the german departement of transportation and city development which confirmed them.
see my previous posts.

And as Chris said your german source is probably outdated.
And even if Germany has at the moment the 3rd largest motorway network in the world, Spain is very very close and will surpass is soon.
Just check a road map and look how many motorways under contruction there are in Spain and how many in Germany.
And yes Germany has a bigger population and more cars, but in Spain you need less daily traffic to build a motorway then in Germany. Noone questions that german motorways are on average busier than spanish one.

Cant anyone here give me source which says: "Spain has the highest amount of highway km in Europe?"
Thats all Im asking for really.
I do not doubt that Spain is building a lot these days, but theyre doing it becuase they didnt do it in the past unlike other countries.
Their infrastructure was not up to date which is a reason why the EU hands out generous funds to the spanish government.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 04:53 PM

Because that list is at least from 2006. Spain builds motorways much faster as Germany, over 560km this year, so it has overtaken Germany on the list. I'm not sure on France, i'm calculating it now.

So you claim that Spain has the highest amount of highway kms and that it has overtaken Germany.
The problem I have here is that: "you havent given a single source so far to back this claim up."

Why doesn't it make sense? Because Germany should have the biggest motorway network in your opinion?

It has the biggest and densest motorway network because:

a: It has the biggest population in Europe
b: It has the highest amount of licensed cars
c: Its europes biggest economy and has been that since atleast the early 60s whereas Spain in contrast was a poor country until the 90s
d: Germany invested more money into its infrastructure than the other big countries in europe even during the 90s (bringing the former GDR up to date)
e: the federalistic makeup of the country means that youll have many populated centres spread throughout the country which need to be connected.
f: Its geographical location in the heart of Europe.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 05:49 PM

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 05:50 PM

The source of the Spanish motorways is listed a few posts back, in the code tags.

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 06:32 PM

the Netherlands & Belgium have a much denser motorway network than any other country in the world, including Germany. There are almost no places in the Netherlands where a motorway is further as 25km away.

Yes, of course, I was refering to the "big" countries in Europe when I said that Germany had the densest. ;)

GNU

October 13th, 2007, 06:34 PM

The source of the Spanish motorways is listed a few posts back, in the code tags.

Could you post it again pls.? I cant find it

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 09:08 PM

The list so far in Europe;

Motorway-called roads
1. Spain 12.946 - Autovía & Autopista
2. Germany 12.624 - Autobahn
3. France 10.689 - Autoroute

Expressways with motorway characteristics
1. France 3.097 - Voie Expresse
2. Germany 1.561 - Autobahnähnlich & Gelbe Autobahn
3. Spain 0* - Via Rapida**

Total:
1. Germany 14.185
2. France 13.786
3. Spain 12.946

* Only difference between Autovías and Autopistas are tolls.
** A Via Rapida is a one lane expressway, and therefore not taken into account.

What can we see from this list? Well, the three countries are close to eachother. However, they have various population (densities) and AADT. Counted to population, Spain wins by far, and Germany comes out worse.

Spain also has the largest amount of the highest design standards, France has the lowest. Germany is in between, but it has to be noted, that some German Autobahnen have no emergency lane, also in rural areas.

Still, a decent comparison is hard, since France's Voie Expresses (motorway-like roads) have a higher design standard as German Autobahnähnliche roads. Spanish Autovías have the same design standards and Vmax as their Autobahn, Autopista & Autoroute counterparts.

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 10:54 PM

Wowowow! :) Thanks for the numbers, Chris! :) But how can you make it so precise? I find it easy to get the length of a long motorway, but there's tons of short ones that are harder to calculate. What's your recipe? :) And how did you decide, which roads are motorway-like and which aren't? I hope you didn't count the Munich inner ring, for example.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 11:08 PM

Well, it takes a lot of time.

Spain was quite easy, the Michelin atlas makes a clear difference between Autopistas/Autovías and other 4 lane expressways (which can also be grade seperated). So this is generally just checking every page for Autopista's and Autovía's. Spain took me about one afternoon and evening.

France is also not too hard, i did it the same way as Spain. Voie Expresses are always up to motorway-standards, however they have fewer rest/gas stations and no tolls. France took me this afternoon.

Germany was harder. The Autobahn network was not too hard, but the other motorway-like roads are less good defined. This was just some good Google Earth checking. Where Autovías and Voie Expresses are always (near) motorway-grade, German expressways aren't always that good. Sometimes they are just urban arterials with acces restricted 2x2 lanes, sometimes near motorways.

How i did it? I started Open Office Calc (same as MS Excel), and just started to entry all motorways. I calculated the length with my calculator, which takes quite some time, but is by far the most precise.

I wanted to do this by hand, because internet sources are not accurate/overrated (wikipedia) or outdated (governmental sites).

I already saw a lot of National Spanish roads to be underlined as "Autovia en Obras", which means it will be or is under reconstruction to a motorway-grade road. Completion dates stating 2007 are included, others are not.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2007, 11:11 PM

a printscreen:

http://i23.************/2mwt4y0.png

Verso

October 13th, 2007, 11:57 PM

But how did you count all the motorways in the atlas? Sometimes distances shown include also non-motorway parts, that really pisses me off, although yeah, mostly it's distinguished.

About sources: you know, which info is the most laughable to me? Armenia having 1,561 km (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html#Trans) of expressways. :lol: Or am I wrong? :D

Stifler

October 14th, 2007, 01:44 AM

Chris, your work is awesome, and IMO extremely precise and objetive.

Thank you so much.

TheCat

October 14th, 2007, 08:03 AM

a printscreen:
...

Wow, that's some serious dedication. Is that related to your occupation? I read in one of the threads that you do traffic advising (actually, I think it's your profile). Can you explain a little? I'm very curious, since you are my age :). Do you work as part of an internship from university?

lpioe

October 14th, 2007, 10:30 AM

Great job Chris :applause:

isaidso

October 14th, 2007, 10:42 AM

I do NOT beleive for a minute that Canada has 17000 km of freeway..........I think even 5000 would be pushing it.
Is this freeway length or freeway lanes.....there is a big difference.

Freeway length. 17,000 km seems very believable to me. The Trans-Canada highway alone is 8,000 km. There are portions of it that are not freeway, but the entire length of it through Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Quebec is freeway. If you add on top of this all the freeways in southern Ontario (the 401 alone is 816 km) and other freeways around the country, 17,000 km seems bang on.

Manitoba is listed at having only 200 km of freeway by Transport Canada. I have driven on that 200 km Manitoba freeway, and it definitely is freeway, not highway or road. When you consider that the same organization has come up with 17,000 km for the whole country, it is evident that the count is correct because they used the same criteria.

Tiny Nova Scotia is listed at having 1,600 km of freeway alone. I lived there for 20 years and this figure seems right to me. Halifax to the New Brunswick border is over 300 km. Truro to New Glasgow and beyond is freeway and at least another few hundred kilometres. Truro to the Annapolis Valley and beyond is also freeway. Halifax heading south along the coast is also freeway for a few hundred kilometres. We're already well past 1,000 km.

If you consider that there are over 1,400,000 km of roads in Canada (Transport Canada figures), how could 17,000 km of freeway seem outlandish?

ChrisZwolle

October 14th, 2007, 10:51 AM

But how did you count all the motorways in the atlas? Sometimes distances shown include also non-motorway parts, that really pisses me off, although yeah, mostly it's distinguished.

Well, the Michelin atlas is quite precise. Sometimes they aren't, and i estimated, but i can only about 1 - 2km wrong on that.

About sources: you know, which info is the most laughable to me? Armenia having 1,561 km (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html#Trans) of expressways. :lol: Or am I wrong? :D

That's more likely the old Soviet M-roads in the country. But i shouldn't underestimate Armenia, since some M-roads are expressway-grade over a considerable length. They don't have the quality of western motorways, but at least the profile is there.

ChrisZwolle

October 14th, 2007, 10:56 AM

Wow, that's some serious dedication. Is that related to your occupation? I read in one of the threads that you do traffic advising (actually, I think it's your profile). Can you explain a little? I'm very curious, since you are my age :). Do you work as part of an internship from university?

I'm not doing this for work, just a little occupation of me.

About my work, i haven't studied or anything, after highschool, i worked for a few years in a supermarket, but that became boring, and quite under my intelligence level (no offence to other supermarket employees), so i knew the chief of this work i work now. It turned out there is a national severe shortage of people interested or studying "verkeerskunde" (Traffic knowledge), so they were happy to give me a job. :)

My hobby is motorways and traffic in all countries of the world, so i know quite a bit about it.

oliver999

October 14th, 2007, 11:07 AM

every country has it's own standard for high way or free way, so the statistics cant be very accurate. but i know US, CHINA,CANADA,GERMANY leading the way in totally length.

isaidso

October 14th, 2007, 11:13 AM

Agreed. Most nations simply won't have as much freeway because they aren't as vast. Germany comes close simply because of the large German population and level of development of their system, but it just makes sense that countries like the US, China, and Canada would have alot of freeway. Canada is wider than the Atlantic Ocean.

velut arbor aevo

October 14th, 2007, 06:35 PM

the dutch, belgian and american highways are the best that I have come across

GNU

October 14th, 2007, 06:54 PM

Verso

October 14th, 2007, 07:17 PM

I'm not doing this for work, just a little occupation of me.

About my work, i haven't studied or anything, after highschool, i worked for a few years in a supermarket, but that became boring, and quite under my intelligence level (no offence to other supermarket employees), so i knew the chief of this work i work now. It turned out there is a national severe shortage of people interested or studying "verkeerskunde" (Traffic knowledge), so they were happy to give me a job. :)

My hobby is motorways and traffic in all countries of the world, so i know quite a bit about it.

Chris, why don't you go study transport? :)

arriaca

October 14th, 2007, 07:58 PM

ChrisZwolle

October 14th, 2007, 09:50 PM

Carreteras de doble calzada 1.724 km
(Expressways with motorway characteristics)

Those aren't up to motorway standards like Autovías and Autopistas. Those are more 4 lane highways, not necessarily motorways. More like the M506 in Madrid.

TheCat

October 14th, 2007, 10:15 PM

the dutch, belgian and american highways are the best that I have come across

Hey, I know what your nickname stands for :) You're associated with the University of Toronto?

Nephasto

October 14th, 2007, 10:19 PM

ChrisZwolle

October 14th, 2007, 10:23 PM

^^ Yes, indeed on those Voie Express. Michelin has the best maps of France.

willo

October 14th, 2007, 11:13 PM

So according to you Spain isnt a net receiver of EU funds?

Spain is a net reciever but what does have to do with all the infraestructure being paid by EU?¿? that's not true

GNU

October 15th, 2007, 03:21 PM

Spain is a net reciever but what does have to do with all the infraestructure being paid by EU?¿? that's not true

Structural Funds and Cohesion Funds are funds allocated by the European Union for two related purposes, firstly support for the poorer regions of Europe, and, secondly, support for integrating European infrastructure especially in the transport sector. Current programmes run from 1 January 2000 to 31 December 2006, with €54.4 billion budget for Structural Funds, and €18bn for the Cohesion Fund.

In order to achieve economic growth a country needs to have a decent infrastructure as a basis.

willo

October 15th, 2007, 05:44 PM

i thought i was talking to a person with a normal IQ. Sorry for prejudging you

GNU

October 15th, 2007, 06:24 PM

Apology accepted!
Having a higher than normal IQ often means that youll get some flak. Im used to it.

Ali_B

November 3rd, 2007, 06:13 PM

Since this summer Morocco has now 818km of highway. At the end of this year another 48km of highway will be finished and opened fot traffic.

Booze

November 3rd, 2007, 10:41 PM

Indeed! What are Carreteras de doble calzada with motorway standards?! That doesn't exist... they would be autovias.
And also there are some rare dual carriagewas that don't have motorway standarts but are called autovias(for example the A7 south of Estepona untill the junction with AP7), although I think those aren't counted in Chris numbers.

They do exist :D As I posted at the Spanish forum, these kind of roads would be like the Ma-15 in Mallorca which is not considered Autovia, and has a Vmax of 100km/h (sorry, I didn't find better pictures)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5751/ma15af1.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9674/1223256fy8.jpg

http://www.galeanoart.com/images/tanque3.jpg

-----

Regarding the number of cars and its relation to the infrastructure in a country, one must note that differences among regions are huge.

I posted this chart at the spanish forum some weeks ago. The funny thing is that there is not a clear pattern that relates the data to GDP, Density, or to other factors.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/963/motoritzacio01sw7.gif

¿Do you have this data for other countries?

radi6404

February 20th, 2008, 12:13 AM

I wanted ask how well they make new motorways and nationalroads in your country, are they really smooth when they are new or are they already with a bump here and there, it is art for me to make motorways so smooth that you feel nothing and think you are in a maglev rather than a road, it is apsolutely amazing and consummade if companies manage to make the motorways that smooth, how are new motorways in your countries. I think I´ve told you enough of the motorways in Bulgaria, especially one certain motorway.

Verso

February 20th, 2008, 07:09 PM

Which one?

KIWIKAAS

February 20th, 2008, 09:06 PM

You would be very disappointed with new motorways in New Zealand and Australia with all the botts dots and cats eyes on the road surface. More like a Maglev with stones on the track ;)

keber

February 20th, 2008, 09:14 PM

There are bumps here and there in Slovenia and everywhere else. So, next question?:cheers:

radi6404

February 21st, 2008, 02:08 AM

There are bumps here and there in Slovenia and everywhere else. So, next question?:cheers:

so then aktually only new Bulgarian motorways feel like maglevs?

Klausenburg

February 21st, 2008, 02:13 AM

http://www.ziuadecj.ro/action/article?ID=9212

A new highway will be built between Transylvania Highway and the town of Dej, crossing through Nokia plant in Jucu. It will have 75 Km, and will cost ~8 milion euros for each Km. I will begin in Gilau, will be linked with Transylvania Highway at Luna Interchange, will saround Cluj-Napoca by South, will pass near Cluj International Airport, and will continue towards Jucu and finaly Dej. The construction will start in April.

Lucrările la “autostrada Nokia” încep în aprilie

Lucrările la autostrada urbană Gilău-Jucu (cu extindere spre Dej) vor începe la finele lunii aprilie, au declarat pentru ZIUA de Cluj surse din administraţie. În total, autostrada va măsura 75 de kilometri. Costurile au fost evaluate la peste opt milioane de euro pe kilometru. Lucrarea va începe de la nodul rutier din localitatea Jucu.
Compania Naţională de Autostrăzi şi Drumuri Naţionale din România (CNADNR) pregăteşte deja licitaţia pentru atribuirea lucrării de execuţie a autostrăzii urbane, au precizat surse din administraţie. Şi arhitectul judeţului, Radu Spânu, a confirmat că aprilie este termenul la care a fost programată începerea lucrărilor.

“Conform proiectului, lucrarea va debuta spre finele lui aprilie, începând de la nodul denivelat din localitatea Jucu”, a precizat arhitectul. Acesta a explicat că reprezentanţii companiei de proiectare Iptana trebuie să finalizeze studiul de fezabilitate până în martie, urmând ca mai apoi CNADNR să poată organiza licitaţia pentru execuţia lucrării.

Trebuie reamintit că autostrada urbană Gilău – Jucu măsura, în proiectul iniţial, peste 40 de kilometri, iar preţul de realizare a fost estimat la aproximativ 370.000.000 de euro.

Ulterior, s-a decis prelungirea autostrăzii spre Dej cu 35 de kilometri, costurile devenind aproape duble. Autostrada ar urma să se desfăşoare pe patru benzi. Porneşte din comuna Gilău, se intersectează cu nodul denivelat de drumuri de la capătul sudic al comunei Luna şi coboară dealurile până la sud de localitatea Floreşti, în zona unităţii militare.

Traseul parcurge mai departe zona Floreşti până la Cetatea Fetei. Apoi se îndreaptă spre municipiul Cluj-Napoca, prin Făget, în paralel cu centura ocolitoare a Primăriei – tronsonul sud. De aici, drumul ajunge în zona străzilor Câmpului şi E. Ionescu, intră pe strada C. Brâncuşi, H. Coandă şi zona Selgros.

Traversează Băile Someşeni şi intră în zona de locuinţe până la capătul pistei de aterizare-decolare a aeroportului, unde se întretaie cu intersecţia denivelată DN1C (Aurel Vlaicu, Traian Vuia). Ocoleşte apoi localităţile Sânicoară şi Apahida şi continuă prin Jucu spre Dej.

SOURCE: Ziua de Cluj

Verso

February 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM

so then aktually only new Bulgarian motorways feel like maglevs?

Have you been driven by maglev?

KIWIKAAS

February 21st, 2008, 02:26 PM

^^
of course he hasn't.
He hasn't been to Mars either............
then again?:lol:

keber

February 21st, 2008, 03:00 PM

so then aktually only new Bulgarian motorways feel like maglevs?

No. It is in the same league as any other country.

radi6404

February 21st, 2008, 03:35 PM

No. It is in the same league as any other country.

No, that´s just bullshit, I know how new roads in other couries feel and how new roads in Bulgaria feel, in some countries they are fine but in some they don´t manage to make them smooth, Do you know that the newly rehabilitated motorway Belgrade Nish feels like a rollercoaster, you see black asphalt but it goes up and down, up and down... That´s not how it should be, that´s not soemthing against Serbians, they manage to build good roads but Belgrade Nish rehabilitated section feels like a rollercoaster.

ChrisZwolle

February 21st, 2008, 03:41 PM

Billpa

February 21st, 2008, 05:29 PM

No, that´s just bullshit,

Why can't you come on here and act politely like everyone else?
Grow up.

Xusein

February 21st, 2008, 06:32 PM

No new roads here, so I wouldn't know...we got some new shiny crashbarriers though. :D

radi6404

February 21st, 2008, 06:38 PM

^^ You thing the Serbs are gonna waste money rebuilding the whole motorway, while repaving does the job? Because, those rollercoaster roads, as you call it, require a total new foundation, which is unnecessary expensive.

If the renovate their motorways which are MAJOR connections to the east they should do it properly, E79 parts which were renovated in the same period when the Struma motorway was being built feel like Maglev, so the Bulgarian company manages to renovate the roads properly but the Serbs don´t? The national road passing through the gorge with the 13 tunnels is properly done, it´s smooth but the motorway, no.

Chicagoago

February 21st, 2008, 06:51 PM

^^
of course he hasn't.
He hasn't been to Mars either............
then again?:lol:

I actually took a maglev to mars last summer....it was really charming.

KIWIKAAS

February 21st, 2008, 07:30 PM

Then would you be so kind as to answer these?

1. Do they have gas stations on Mars?

2. Was the Struma built by Martians?

ChrisZwolle

February 21st, 2008, 08:07 PM

3. Is radi from Mars?

KIWIKAAS

February 21st, 2008, 09:42 PM

4. And was is ancient Bulgarians (the decendants of refugees from Krypton) who really made the Nazca Lines?

radi6404

February 22nd, 2008, 03:09 PM

Then would you be so kind as to answer these?

1. Do they have gas stations on Mars?

2. Was the Struma built by Martians?

Can´t answer it, I just know that the Struma was built by Professionals from Professional companies which know what they are doing.

ChrisZwolle

February 22nd, 2008, 03:16 PM

Can´t answer it, I just know that the Struma was built by Professionals from Professional companies which know what they are doing.

And all the other motorways were build by a discount company? :nuts:

Mateusz

February 22nd, 2008, 04:28 PM

Buy one, take second for free :D

asahi

February 22nd, 2008, 07:39 PM

Something like Tesco branded motorway ? :-)

Majestic

February 22nd, 2008, 08:38 PM

Can´t answer it, I just know that the Struma was built by Professionals from Professional companies which know what they are doing.

Like what professional companies?

keber

February 22nd, 2008, 09:11 PM

Like Strabag. :lol:

radi6404

February 22nd, 2008, 10:18 PM

Like Strabag. :lol:

no man, like Mavrovo skopie and others

CborG

February 25th, 2008, 07:30 PM

Sorry about this on-topic post:

Planned motorways in NL:

A2 -Tunnel Maastricht
A4
-Delft-Schiedam
-JC Benelux-Klaaswaal
-Dinteloord-Halsteren
A5 Westrandweg Amsterdam
A7
-southern bypass Sneek
-Euvelgunne trace east of Groningen-city
A8 Westzaan-Beverwijk
A15
-Upgrading N15 west of Rotterdam
-extension A15 in eastern direction to the A12
A16 -extension to the A13 north of Rotterdam
A24 -Rozenburg-Maassluis (Blankenburgtunnel)
A30 -Barneveld-Almere-Purmerend (long-term project)
A35 -Almelo-Zwolle (long-term project)
A50 -Upgrading N50 Hattemerbroek-Emmeloord
A54 -Europoort-the Hague (veilingroute)
A73 -Beuningen-A15, west of Nijmegen
A74 -Venlo-German A61

Expressways

N11 -South of Leiden between the A4 and A44
N14 -extension northwest of the Hague
N15 -extension on Maasvlakte II
N23 -Alkmaar-Zwolle
N31
-Western bypass Harlingen
-bypass southwest of Leeuwarden (haak om Leeuwarden)
N33 -widening Assen-Zuidbroek from 2x1 to 2x2
N57 -Western bypass Middelburg

Majestic

February 25th, 2008, 08:25 PM

^^
I like your irony man :lol:

ElviS77

March 18th, 2008, 05:20 PM

It is anything but easy to figure out which countries have a seriously well-developed motorway network and which countries do not. Just counting kms or miles isn't really going to cut it, one obviously have to consider country size as well (surprisingly enough, Luxembourg will never have the same network length as the US...). But even that isn't enough, since a densely populated country like Germany needs more motorways than Sweden, for example. So, then, how should one address this...?

Being exceptionally bored today, I tried to develop a system. First, I looked at length of motorway network per 1000 sq kms. Then, I divided this number by the countries' population density, and reworked the figures into something comparable - the highest number "wins". Here is what I found:

Norway: 0.06 (280 km motorway divided by 324, then divided by 14, 324 being the 1000 sq kms leaving Spitsbergen out of the equation, 14 being population density per sq km)
Sweden: 0.12
Germany: 0.15
USA: 0.25 (not including Alaska)
Spain: 0.30
And so on...

A couple of comments before everyone start hacking my head off: I KNOW there are debates as to what constitutes a motorway. Should I have included "Gelbe Autobahns" in the German figure (which I did not), should I have left Spanish Autovias out (which I did not either), and how many kms of what we Europeans refer to as motorways actually exist in the US..? I used the figure 75,000 kms, believing I've seen it on this forum. Anyway, I think this is a sensible way of counting, and if you reject my figures (for the record: 12,000 kms for both Germany and Spain, 1100 for Sweden), feel free to substitute your own. The population figures are from CIA's World Factbook.

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 05:35 PM

I have calculated the US freeway system, it was close to 100.000 kilometers. Official figures usually only include Interstates.

Minato ku

March 18th, 2008, 05:43 PM

So
France : 0.19

ElviS77

March 18th, 2008, 05:44 PM

I have calculated the US freeway system, it was close to 100.000 kilometers. Official figures usually only include Interstates.

OK, thanks, that would up the number to about 0.30. Still, the Spanish network is quite impressive. Of course, to make this even more reliable, one shouls count number of lanes as well, but that's just too much...

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 05:48 PM

Maybe it's also interesting to calculate the future number. Like eastern European countries only just started constructiong motorways.

ElviS77

March 18th, 2008, 05:50 PM

So
France : 0.19

Sounds about right. On a Norwegian note, I find it quite interesting that if one were to build the approx 500 kms of motorway the National Road Administration deem necessary, we would roughly be at the same figure. A full 1000 kms would make us surpass the US and Spain - not that that's ever going to happen...

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Maybe this is interesting

Lane Miles per Capita 1999:
US Urbanized Areas over 1,000,000
http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-tti99ratio.htm

Xusein

March 18th, 2008, 05:52 PM

IT would be interesting to the US number with non-interstate freeways, but that may be too hard.

ElviS77

March 18th, 2008, 05:52 PM

Maybe it's also interesting to calculate the future number. Like eastern European countries only just started constructiong motorways.

Absolutely, with all the massive plans, national as well as European, things will change over the next few years. I might just revisit this issue, but it'll have to wait a day or so. Suddenly, bored turned to busy...

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 05:53 PM

IT would be interesting to the US number with non-interstate freeways, but that may be too hard.

I calculated it all with the newest Rand McNally Road atlas of 2008.

I have it at home (i'm at work right now).

Xusein

March 18th, 2008, 06:05 PM

Oh, okay. Question answered then. :)

Timon91

March 18th, 2008, 06:06 PM

The Netherlands:
5012 km of highways (sounds a bit too much to me, but it's what the CBS tells me?
41 (000 sq. km)
394.3 (inhabitants per sq.km)

5012/41/394.3 = 0.31

PLH

March 18th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Poland:
1003 km of motorways(highways + expressways)
323 (000 sq. km)
122 (inhabitants per sq.km)

1003/323/122 = 0.03

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 07:04 PM

The Netherlands:
5012 km of highways (sounds a bit too much to me, but it's what the CBS tells me?
41 (000 sq. km)
394.3 (inhabitants per sq.km)

5012/41/394.3 = 0.31

2300/41/394.3 = 0.14

5012 km is the number of "rijkswegen" i think. Those aren't all freeways.

Muttie

March 18th, 2008, 07:18 PM

Morocco 2007:

1091 km (Expressways + Highways)
446 (000 sq. km)
70 (inhabitants per sq. km)

1091/446/70 = 0.03

Morocco 2010:

2435/446/70 (wont change that bad in 2 years i think) = 0.078

RawLee

March 18th, 2008, 07:27 PM

USA: 0.25 (not including Alaska)

Why not include Alaska?

Anyway,here's Hungary's...
1013km - 93030km2 - 109p/km2 :that makes it 0,09
and if I count the approximate final length,then it will be about 0,29.

Chrissib

March 18th, 2008, 07:31 PM

Why not include Alaska?

Anyway,here's Hungary's...
1013km - 93030km2 - 109p/km2 :that makes it 0,09
and if I count the approximate final length,then it will be about 0,29.

Alaska has 1030km of Interstates?

Majestic

March 18th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Alaska has 1030km of Interstates?
:lol: First it's 1013, not 1030. Second, it's HUNGARY, not Alaska.

Verso

March 18th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Haven't you guys noticed you're calculating too much here? :D

Length of motorway network per 1000 sq km ÷ population density = length of motorway network per 1000 inhabitants. :tongue2:

So, Slovenia:

457 km ÷ 2000 (2,000,000 inhabitants) = 0.23

That's 0.23 km per 1000 inhabitants (the same method as the original one). Wouldn't the number be nicer, if we say how many people get on 1 km of motorway? In case of Slovenia that would be 4376 inhabitants per 1 km. And why wouldn't we include Alaska? It's sparsely populated anyway.

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 08:05 PM

in The Netherlands it's 7.087 per km. In the Randstad, it's over 10.000 per km. (one of the highest in the developed world).

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 08:08 PM

The Randstad has about 11.850 inhabitants per kilometer motorway.

KIWIKAAS

March 18th, 2008, 08:44 PM

New Zealand 0,05
Australia 0,06

H123Laci

March 18th, 2008, 08:46 PM

First, I looked at length of motorway network per 1000 sq kms. Then, I divided this number by the countries' population density

so you are calculating the following: (Length_of_mways/Area) / (population/Area)

this formula can be reduced to: [lenght of mways / population]

I think this is a good and simple indicator, but not perfect:

- maybe it would be better to divide the LENGTH with the number of cars
(a country with higher motorisation level - cars/pop - needs more motorway)

- maybe it would be more better to correct this number with the average car usage (km/year)...
(a country with higher average car usage needs more motorway)

and this is not perfec yet, because a low pop-density country can be satisfied with a good primary main road network - it is absolutly enough for its low AADT - however a high pop-density country needs motorways everywhere...

So, I think the most important thing is to have a good quality road network which avoids(bypasses) residental areas.

where traffic is low (AADT<4-5000e) a two lane main road is enough.
higher traffic needs more lanes (and grade separation).

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 08:49 PM

^^ where are you from where that last thing is usual? Many Dutch 2 lane main roads have over 20,000 AADT.

H123Laci

March 18th, 2008, 09:07 PM

from hungary...

20.000 is an extreme number, these roads should be updated to (alleviated by) motorways...

the 5000 AADT limit is my opinion (and not the hungarian reality :-((

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Some Dutch records concerning number of traffic by number of lanes:

traffic lights: Julianaplein Groningen ~112,000
2 lane highway: 25,000? (not sure, there are many overcrowded 2 lane roads)
4 lane non-motorway grade crossings: N44 Den Haag 57,000
2x2 motorway: A15 Sliedrecht: 110,000
2x2 motorway with merging lanes: A28 Zwolle 116,000
2x3 motorway: A20 Rotterdam: 180,000
2x3 motorway with mergin lanes: A4 Badhoevedorp 190,000
2x4 motorway: A27 Utrecht 194.000
2x5 motorway: A12 Utrecht 220.000
busiest: A16 Rotterdam 232,000 4x3 lanes

H123Laci

March 18th, 2008, 10:11 PM

nice numbers... :-)
Netherland is really a highly populated, highly motorised country...

I am a motorway fan, but I think the public transport is the solution for you...

...or do you plan to expand your motorway network?

ChrisZwolle

March 18th, 2008, 11:25 PM

Neither of those. So we're stuck with traffic jams for a while.

mass transit cannot solve any traffic jams, massive investments in mass transit only led to a 10% annual growth in traffic jams. But i think i have said enough about that ;)

Tauernautobahn

March 19th, 2008, 03:08 AM

Austria:
(I took both "Autobahnen" and "Schnellstraßen, otherwise it would have been too difficult to find out the exact length)

ElviS77's method:

kms of motorways/ 1000 sq kms/ population per sq km

current:
2148/ 83871/ 99= 0,26

when all currently planned projects are ready:
2519/ 83871/ 99= 0,30

if all projects mentioned in the original "federal-roads-law 1971" (Bundesstraßengesetz 1971), which is still valid (of course with changes) would have been built:
3071/ 83871/ 99= 0,36

Verso's method:

population/ kms of motorways

current:
8335325/ 2148= 3881 inhabitants/km

when all currently planned projects are ready:
8335325/ 2519= 3309 inhabitants/km

if all projects mentioned in the original "federal-roads-law 1971" (Bundesstraßengesetz 1971), which is still valid (of course with changes) would have been built:
8335325/ 3071= 2714 inhabitants/km

TheCat

March 19th, 2008, 04:57 AM

According to this, for Canada it is:

0.51 (using the official 17,000 km statistic)
0.17 (using Chris' 5808 km statistic)

Rebasepoiss

March 19th, 2008, 11:21 PM

Sad shit, but for Estonia the number is 0. :(

Patrick

March 19th, 2008, 11:32 PM

^^ where are you from where that last thing is usual? Many Dutch 2 lane main roads have over 20,000 AADT.

even the major road here bypassing my hometown on the countryside (3000 inhabitants) has between 7000-10000 vehicles a day (Bundesstraße 413).

another village nearby (12km from here, less than 1000 inhabitants) where people are fighting for a bypass because it lacks a complete one, counts more than 17000 vehicles on its 2-lane-major-road (not even a Bundesstraße). Numbers for urban areas are quite higher, I think ;)

Bartolo

March 21st, 2008, 06:47 AM

I think the 5808 is correct, because Ontario only has a little over 2000km
But of course in Ontario they want to lengthen the system, by extending some freeways and also creating whole new ones

jkjkjk

March 21st, 2008, 05:01 PM

app. calculation for china - 53 600 km / 1 300 000 000 inhb = 0.04

Ballota

March 22nd, 2008, 03:56 AM

Croatia

The situation in 2008:

- 1100km of motorways

- 56.000km2 of area

- 81ppl/km2

So....the number is 0.24 :master:

By the year 2015. the number will be 0.33 (1500km of motorways).

:cheers2:

Verso

March 22nd, 2008, 03:59 PM

Croatia

The situation in 2008:

- 1100km of motorways

I would interfere, but Croats would of course attack me. :D

Astralis

March 22nd, 2008, 04:21 PM

I would interfere, but Croats would of course attack me. :D

You're right with this... it's not 1100 km now but around 950 or sth.

renco

March 22nd, 2008, 06:58 PM

I would interfere, but Croats would of course attack me. :D

Why do u think that :dunno::D

By the end of 2008. we should have exactly 1000 km (+ or - km or two) of highways.

Glodenox

March 22nd, 2008, 11:35 PM

Belgium:

kms of motorway: 1,747km
country area: 30 (x1000)
population: 10,390,200
population per km²: 340 inh./km²

So with the first method:
1,747/30/340 = 0.17

And with the second:
10,390,200/1,747 = 5947.45

I personally find our network of motorways extremely dense, so I'm quite appalled at the outcome... I did notice though that strangely enough we have a higher length in E-motorways than in just motorways, so according to me there's something wrong with the numbers...

Greetings,
Glodenox

March 22nd, 2008, 11:55 PM

Cyprus(not including turkish part)
all numbers are rounded up

kms of motorway=270
country area=5,500
population=800,000
population per km²=145

using the first method
270/5,500/145=0,33

and with the second
800,000/270=2962

i dont know how these numbers will change when the construction of the new motorways is completed

Aquarius

March 23rd, 2008, 12:21 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/aquariusbcn/autopistas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/aquariusbcn/autopistas2.jpg

Verso

March 23rd, 2008, 12:53 AM

^^ Nice, but it's not that accurate. And where's Belgium? The EU 'capital' is there, if nothing else. :D

CborG

March 23rd, 2008, 08:40 AM

Indeed not very accurate. In NL we have about 2350km of motorways, not 2602km.

Kese

March 25th, 2008, 12:09 AM

Hungary about 1000 kms, not 600.

ElviS77

March 30th, 2008, 02:15 PM

so you are calculating the following: (Length_of_mways/Area) / (population/Area)

this formula can be reduced to: [lenght of mways / population]

I think this is a good and simple indicator, but not perfect:

- maybe it would be better to divide the LENGTH with the number of cars
(a country with higher motorisation level - cars/pop - needs more motorway)

- maybe it would be more better to correct this number with the average car usage (km/year)...
(a country with higher average car usage needs more motorway)

and this is not perfec yet, because a low pop-density country can be satisfied with a good primary main road network - it is absolutly enough for its low AADT - however a high pop-density country needs motorways everywhere...

First of all, I'm absloutely aware that my idea was anything but perfect and that there are other parameters that do effect the total equation. However, one of the things you see when doing the calculations my way, is that the relative network length often increases with country size, and that densely populated areas seem to have have less motorways than more rural countries. This is not an absolute, of course, but it does make sense applied to Western Europe: Spain has more than Germany which has more than the UK. For instance. My not-so-contoversial hypothesis is that higher population density equals more motorway lanes on average. In addition, regular highways are often multilane as well.

Still, not the definitive comparison of motorway network length. Of course, and I like all the improvements that have been suggested.

ElviS77

March 30th, 2008, 02:15 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/aquariusbcn/autopistas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/aquariusbcn/autopistas2.jpg

Cool statistics!

Verso

March 30th, 2008, 02:25 PM

First of all, I'm absloutely aware that my idea was anything but perfect and that there are other parameters that do effect the total equation. However, one of the things you see when doing the calculations my way, is that the relative network length often increases with country size, and that densely populated areas seem to have have less motorways than more rural countries. This is not an absolute, of course, but it does make sense applied to Western Europe: Spain has more than Germany which has more than the UK. For instance. My not-so-contoversial hypothesis is that higher population density equals more motorway lanes on average. In addition, regular highways are often multilane as well.

Still, not the definitive comparison of motorway network length. Of course, and I like all the improvements that have been suggested.

Your idea was quite fine, but you gave us an unnecessarily long formula. We just shortened it, that's all.

PLH

March 30th, 2008, 05:28 PM

Cool statistics!

Yeah, cooly outdated...

For eg. Poland - not 552 but 765,8 km (or 1169,9 km depending on "motorway" definition)

tugavalenciano

March 31st, 2008, 03:57 PM

Lisbon wins!

Rebasepoiss

March 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM

Wow, Estonia has the highest number of roads per 100 000 people. I didn't know that. But that means we have lots of roads to maintain.... :(

ChrisZwolle

March 31st, 2008, 04:19 PM

Funny to see the Netherlands has one of the most dense road networks, yet a low number of roads per 100,000 inhabitants. Good to see such things in perspective, because our non-motorway network sucks bigtime.

Majestic

April 1st, 2008, 03:04 AM

Estonia's got motorways?

Rebasepoiss

April 1st, 2008, 07:24 AM

Estonia's got motorways?
Nope, those 99km shown in the statistics are actually expressways that aren't even close to a motorway.

swaugh3

June 25th, 2008, 08:54 PM

Any new roadways since the last post?

Timon91

June 25th, 2008, 09:09 PM

No :D

Verso

June 25th, 2008, 09:50 PM

:lol:

RawLee

June 26th, 2008, 12:55 AM

Well,M7(Balatonkeresztúr-Zalakomár) will be inaugurated today(26)...
http://index.hu/cikkepek/0806/gazdasag/terkep003827650.jpg

The whole M7 is scheduled to be finished by the end of summer. M0 eastern section is scheduled for that time too. M6-M0 junction also.

ChrisZwolle

October 13th, 2008, 12:48 PM

To discuss the length of the Canadian freeway network, Public Purpose (http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-canada-mwy.htm) has calculated the motorway length of Canda at 6165 kilometers.

They also note:

Note: Other sources report more than double the number of motorway kilometers in Canada. The data above are estimated by The Public Purpose based upon personal inspection both of sites and maps. It is suspected that the higher reported figures include the extensive four-lane roadways that are not fully access controlled.

TheCat

October 14th, 2008, 07:16 AM

^^ Yes, this makes much more sense. The exaggerated statistics probably include all the dual-carriageways in Canada, of which there indeed are many. They usually have a speed limit of 80 or 90 and traffic lights. But with such a low population density, a lot of these roads feel very much like motorways when there isn't traffic :) It's also interesting that Nova Scotia has such a large network in comparison with the other provinces, considering its size.

PS: It also seems that the data is from 1998. While the size of the network hasn't grown by a lot, several new sections of motorway have been built throughout the country.

Ron2K

October 14th, 2008, 09:05 AM

I'll calculate the South African network when I get some free time - I'll only take into consideration what we call a freeway (dual-carriageway, two or more lanes in each direction, grade-separated interchanges).

Will take some doing, because Gauteng province (Johannesburg, Pretoria, Vereeniging) has quite an extensive freeway network, and I'm not totally sure of distances in those parts.

Kenwen

October 17th, 2008, 03:47 AM

the list for total length of roads is very wrong, china is almost the same size as usa and similar size to whole europe, but it only has a road length thats similar to Japan, 1million something KM, the size of japan is like the size of a province in china, thats ridiculous, anyone been to china would know that the sheer amount of roads in china is comparable to usa. and the crazy road building scheme can also prove that list to be wrong, by 2006 along china add 5600KM of expressway

Hezery99

October 31st, 2008, 10:36 AM

in length:

1) United States 75.009km
2) China 34.288km (growing over 4500km each year)
3) Canada 17.000km (seems kind of unlikely to me)
4) Spain 13.156km
5) Germany 12.200km
6) Brazil 11.000km
7) France 11.000km
8) Japan 6.946km
9) Italy 6.621km
10) Mexico 6.144km (growing fast)
11) India 4885km (seems unlikely to me)
12) Saudi Arabia 3348km
13) Thailand 2885km (are those all expressways?)
14) Chile 2653km
15) Netherlands 2360km
16) Iraq 2227km (i don't think they are all motorways)
17) Pakistan 2225km
18) Portugal 2002km
19) South Korea 1996km
20) South Africa 1927km
21) Ukraine 1770km (most of them are grade-expressways i guess)
22) Belgium 1729km
23) Turkey 1726km
24) Australia 1700km
25) Austria 1677km
26) Switzerland 1638km
27) Sweden 1428km
28) United Arab Emirates 1392km
29) Venezuela 1256km
30) Nigeria 1194km
31) Malaysia 1192km
32) Croatia 1050km
33) Griekenland 1030km
34) Denmark 1010km
Egypt 988km ( i doubt of all these motorways are real motorways)
Syria 877km
Taiwan 872km
Hungary 860km
Russia 770km
Iran 751km
Belarus 750km
Argentina 734km
Poland 665km
Finland 653km
Algeria 640km
Cuba 638km
Morocco 581km
Serbia 560km
Oman 550km
Lithuania 523km
Czechia 498km
Slovenia 442km
Kuwait 420km
Jordan 401km
Indonesia 385km (i thought they had more)
Qatar 333km
Uzbekistan 332km
Bulgaria 328km
El Salvador 327km
Slovakia 316km
Cyprus 276km
Peru 276km
Romania 266km
Dominican Republic 263km
Libya 262km
Uruguay 252km
Tunisia 249km
Cameroon 240km
Macedonia 192km
Philippines 170km ( i thought they had more)
Cote d’Ivoire 162km
Kenya 153km
Singapore 150km
Lebanon 145km
New Zealand 144km
Latvia 132km
Norway 128km
Israel 126km
Luxembourg 114km
Myanmar 101km
Vietnam 100km (new motorways)
Estonia 75km
Zambia 50km
Ghana 35km
Jamaica 33km
Bahrain 30km
Gabon 30km
Guinea-Bissau 15km

GRAND TOTAL: 259.027km

You must notice, that a motorway in Cameroon or The Dominican Republic can completely differ from what we seen in Europe and the United States. Length shown here can be seen as highly controversial for some countries. Most data token from wikipedia or the CIA Factbook, and, in some rare cases, i figured it out with maps.

Sometimes, wikipedia doesn’t seems to be very accurate, for example they say Australia has about 16000kms of Expressway, which seems to me as highly unlikely.

Any comments or corrections are very welcome.

Before i starting to figure this out, i thought, there were some 270.000 kilometers of motorway/expressways on our globe, and, it seems to be i was quite close to that.

The actual figure for the total length of Malaysian expressways is 1471.60 km as in 2006.