What do you make or think of my country, the U.S.?

Love to hear some thoughts.

Let me know you are liberal or conservative, gay or lesbian, I will let you know what I think, lol.

the richest ,the most strongest ,the democracyest country in the nowadays

But it did to much to the other countries such as iranc,iran...

We have a big grudge about US's foreign policy of "human right" and "democracy". We feel that US simply uses "human right" and "democracy" to screw other countries, especially China. With regard to this, Falun Gong is a very good example. I can tell you that Falun Gong is disguisting in the eyes of ordinary Chinese. Because US is so enthusiastic about using "human right" and "democracy" leverage against China, now the US is becaming more and more disguisting!

We sincerely hope that US respects the oppinion of the majority Chinse people (right now we are okay with our authoritarian gov't), and stays away from Dalai lama or those Taiwan independence activists. Because all of these are essentially doomed, but they are offending us.

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.

Chinese don't think that way. Maybe you do, but you are not representative of all the Chinese people. It's silly to think any country will stay on the top forever indeed...

I like usa or american culture in some aspects:Education and science level;The flexible Social Structure,

and some aspects I really hate:
Americans are always really ignorant about other nations real condition,culture and history,but they consider themselves always right.
And the usa government always repeats the disgusting,homiletic ,hackneyed and stereotyped expressions .

USA always claim"American Interest",but how about other nations' interest?

What do you make or think of my country, the U.S.?

Love to hear some thoughts.


The question is too generalized and a little vague. You should have categorized it a little.

Were you asking them about the American government in relation to China or perhaps the world?

Were you asking them about America vis-a-vis American people?

Were you asking them about their opinion on US economy?

Or all of the above including all other extra-knowledge?

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.
It's just your opinion.Plz NEVER try to"represent" all chinese people.This is naive.

The history of USA is just about 200 years.It is really a short time in human history.So many empires established and soon collapsed .Do you remember Genghis khan?I don't think any nation can keep ahead forever.This is the rule of world.

and we never call it"catch up",for china,it's just back .

Im a chinese and this is only my own opinion based on what ive seen, feel free to argue if you disagree with me, but just remember to keep this as a discussion and not argument.
US people are very hard working, everyone strives to make as much money as possible which is a result of one of the most capitalism economy. But many of them are very cocky and up themselves, and this is not just chinese feeling, i live in NZ and people feels the same.
US itself is a very rich(which comes with poor people correspondingly). powerful, democratic and beautiful country. The fact that most of US is liveable land and its rich in resourse and has vast coastline and great natural diversity gave US a big head start and helped US to became the only superpower on earth.
BUT the US is using various means to ensure it stays as the only superpower even if sometimes it has to commit injustice(which is although evil but understandable, any country will try to ensure its place if they are the dominating country on earth).Such as the war on irag, when the 911 had no proven link with sudam and even if there is, no country has right to interfer with other countrys business what so ever, and their excuse of them having weapon of mass destruction is even more ridculous, not only did they not find any, but even if there is, iraq has every right to produce them. According to the US rule book, any country with weapon of mass destruction should be brought down, then why dont they justify why did US made them in the first place and that reason could just as well be used for any other country. Just why couldnt people percieve the iran making nuclear weapon as an act of self defense, just what right does the US have to determine whos the bad guy and whos the good guy. BUT OF COURSE, bush is perfectly aware if these hypocricy but all the big corps are driving him to take control of the oil supply in that region. Wheres the so called freedom and justice which was suppose to be the very foundation of the US now? Also the US government is trying to create bad image of china by spreading our faults in human rights and not being a democratic country. I have 2 reason against this 1 we are indeed turning more democratic now, but at a slow speed as chinas population is so big and if we just suddenly adopt domocracy, the country would be in total chaos and so we need a centralised government to take control at the moment, we are not going to be as dumb as the russian, look at them, they did what i just said and they are in a even worse shape than before, we, however will take it slowly.2 Is democracy really the best way to run a society? not really, the ancient greeks only ranked democracy the 5th best way to run a society. The reason is that the people in the society are basically placed into this pyramid, with the most uneducated people at the bottom(which consist of most people in society) and the educated average middle class people in the middle and the wise, genius at the top but with very few of them. So if total democracy do occour, those people at the bottom will vote as well and they are stupid and short sighted therefore they will vote for stupid thing, while the wise, elite of the society has less influense. Thats why the china in the tang dynasty flourished because the king itself is wise and uncorrupted and not what described by the americans the dark, evil, world. The people had no problems because they werent anymore able than the king, so they let the king took over.
But the elite people in the american society and bush understands this, but they have to US will be the only superpower and not let china catch up so they use all kind of method to cause trouble for the chinese government. And i understand it, i mean china would probably do the same if china is as powerful as america. In the end, only the one with strongest fist will survive and so its perfectly understandable for america do all this.
In saying all this, id still like to live in the US, although i dislike their government but the education, health care, technolgy advancement and quality of life are all amongst world best. so i cant really say if i like or dislike US.

Chinese don't think that way. Maybe you do, but you are not representative of all the Chinese people. It's silly to think any country will stay on the top forever indeed...
That`s because stevenli not a Chinese at all :)

im not very fond of this country too much of a bully. i like australia.

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.
I partly agree with you.most chinese don't regard united states as an enemy,but don't like the way that US interferes with other countries.well.it's not never catch up,but most people think it's a long long time.

Too many of you think negatively of other countries. Whether it's India, China, or United States. I suggest taking a couple of anthropology, sociology, economics, and political science courses to truly get the bigger picture of what is happening in the global arena.

The U.S. pressures China regarding its human rights violation due to the very ideals that the U.S. stands for... the unaliable human rights: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. You cannot deny that China at times disregards certain minority groups in order to provide benefits for the "greater good of the people"; & it has a "The ends justify the means" approach. A more transparent Chinese media could definitely change the very way that the government functions, that's why China does the best that it can to censor all forms of media. It's true, China is heading towards a more democratic country. Americans see this, but it doesn't hurt that the country applies pressure to China. This ensures that progress doesn't stagnate with China. Both China & America understands the huge economic benefits that the two countries could reap by working together.

It's a clash of cultural ideals. China has a strong background with confucianism... more specifically: loyalty and filial piety (son and father; student and teacher; ruler and subject, etc). As China prospers further, i hope that it can master the higher levels of Humaneness and Junzi. Right now, the State is more important than the individual... which is the oppositve view of Americans that the State should be a reflection of the people.

Not all Americans agree with the country's actions towards Iraq. But now that America is there, it needs to ensure that it provides the country with the kind of economic help that it did for Germany and Japan.

Yes, the United States can get extremely arrogant. But with the rise of China and other countries within the next few decades, it should provide the world with the proper Checks and Balances. What needs to be implemented with the world, though, is a universal human rights doctrine.

well,I don't believe that us interfered with other countries just because so called human rights.I understand that this is an important section of american's belief,but most of its actions were based on its national interests.

evangelistik:
US bankrupted Russia, assasinated Chilean president Allende, invaded Iraq, while payed a blind eye to Rwanda's massacre. So please just fool yourself, but leave us alone. China is none of your buisness!

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.
Like other Chinese forumer has pointed out, it's only your thought. Please don't make arbitary comments again.

In my eight years of US living experience, US is no better than China at all from my personal perspective and China will definitely surpass US in the forseeable future.

If it weren't for their status as 'top dog', I would not respect them.

I hate their ignorance, arrogance, and need to feel included in EVERYTHING!

With politics aside, I like their belief in freedom, pop-culture, and care-free lifestyle.

well,I don't believe that us interfered with other countries just because so called human rights.I understand that this is an important section of american's belief,but most of its actions were based on its national interests.

We have to look at America's track record here...

World War I. The U.S. enters the war due to persistent German U-Boat attacks on American merchant ships. Human Rights.

World War II. The U.S. imposes economic sanctions on Japan due to Japan's aggressive actions towards neighboring countries (specifically China). Japan bombards Pearl Harbor. The United States enters WWII.

Korean War. North Korea invades South Korea. The U.S. was not expecting any sort of war to occur. That same week Dean Acheson of the State Department told Congress that war was not likely. Upon hearing of the Invasion, the United States decides to support South Korea.

Vietnam War. Communism. The red scare was in full effect at this time, and South Vietnam was supported by Western Allies to prevent the spread of Communism. The U.S. takes a more aggressive action in this war, as it held the belief that should one country fall to communism, others around it would cause a domino effect.

Persian Gulf War. Iraq invades Kuwait under the pretext that Kuwait was slant-drilling oil across Iraqi borders. The UN imposes economic sanctions on Iraq. Fearing that with the invasion of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia would be invaded next (it had the world's largest oil supply; with Iraqi, Kuwaiti, and Saudi combined it would give Iraq a virtual monopoly on oil).

The War on Iraq. Weapons of Mass destruction supposedly held by Saddam. Never found. I particularly didn't agree with this war. As I think it was a blatant act of aggression towards Iraq by the U.S. using America's paranoia with terrorism as a pretense.

I can see the argument that you have towards national interests. But isn't that the priority of the government? Since when does a state never act upon national interests? All those wars were fought for national interests, but it doesn't mean it disregarded other nations as well.

The United States is not the warmonger you make it out to be, and although it has made many errors in the past, it has also made wise decisions. All nations are prone to flaws. It is not the only country that has made bad judgments.

evangelistik:
US bankrupted Russia, assasinated Chilean president Allende, invaded Iraq, while payed a blind eye to Rwanda's massacre. So please just self-fool your bastards, but leave us alone. China is none of your buisness!

Do you really believe that? Russia bankrupted itself trying to catch up with the U.S. during the Cold War.

Russia bankrupted itself due to its poor economic policies. It just could not sustain the pace it was running at for the marathon session that the U.S. was making it run.

Allende committed suicide after the coup attempt.

Rwanda was a tragedy. And unfortunately, the reason why the U.S. invaded Iraq was due to economic reasons (like I mentioned above, the world, including China, didn't want to see an Iraq that held a monopoly on oil). At the same time, where was the rest of the world during the Rwandan tragedy? One nation can't be held accountable when nobody else paid attention.

China is the world's business. Just like the U.S. is everyone else's business. It is absolutely right to criticize the U.S. for its wrongdoings, that is a beautiful thing to know the atrocities it has committed... because, you know what, it helps in preventing it from happening again.


If it weren't for their status as 'top dog', I would not respect them.

I hate their ignorance, arrogance, and need to feel included in EVERYTHING!

With politics aside, I like their belief in freedom, pop-culture, and care-free lifestyle.

The U.S. does have its moments of ignorance and arrogance. But who doesn't? It's all a matter of perspective. China isn't immune to ignorance and arrogance. I've seen many forumers in the China forum that have unwarrantd anger on India, Taiwan, and the U.S. I've read some of their reasons, and to me, they seemed outright ridiculous and ignorant.

If you bring down the U.S. and glorify China ... then you yourself are being ignorant and arrogant. Because you're just choosing to see one's ugly side and see your good side. You cannot view the world through those lenses. You have to see the good and bad with both societies, and try to make your thoughts as unbiased as possible.

Do you really believe that? Russia bankrupted itself trying to catch up with the U.S. during the Cold War.

Russia bankrupted itself due to its poor economic policies. It just could not sustain the pace it was running at for the marathon session that the U.S. was making it run.

Allende committed suicide after the coup attempt.

Rwanda was a tragedy. And unfortunately, the reason why the U.S. invaded Iraq was due to economic reasons (like I mentioned above, the world, including China, didn't want to see an Iraq that held a monopoly on oil). At the same time, where was the rest of the world during the Rwandan tragedy? One nation can't be held accountable when nobody else paid attention.

China is the world's business. Just like the U.S. is everyone else's business. It is absolutely right to criticize the U.S. for its wrongdoings, that is a beautiful thing to know the atrocities it has committed... because, you know what, it helps in preventing it from happening again.

1. Russia. The perscription was given by US, which promised a large amount of aid in the very beginning, but always dragged the feet to materialize it until Russia meltdown is unstoppable, and of course, many promise later turned to be empty.

2. Chile. The coup was planned by US, which primarily wanted to maintain the control over Chilean copper mine, which by the way, was illegal in the first place. And suicide story is just US's version, Chilean people don't think so.

3. China is not very confrontational so we want to coexist with other parts of the world, however, we hate US's intervention to China because we can smell US's intention. As I pointed out numerous times, Falun Gong is a good touchstone to show US's intention towards China. This is why I say China is none of US's business.

1. Russia. The perscription was given by US, which promised a large amount of aid in the very beginning, but always dragged the feet to materialize it until Russia meltdown is unstoppable, and of course, many promise later turned to be empty.

2. Chile. The coup was planned by US, which primarily wanted to maintain the control over Chilean copper mine, which by the way, was illegal in the first place. And suicide story is just US's version, Chilean people don't think so.

3. China is not very confrontational so we want to coexist with other parts of the world, however, we hate US's intervention to China because we can smell US's intention. As I pointed out numerous times, Falun Gong is a good touchstone to show US's intention towards China. This is why I say China is none of US's business.

Wait, what year in Russia are you talking about? If you're talking about the Soviet Union, it collapsed due to Gorbachev's attempt of using structural reforms (the country was already deeply troubled economically and politically at this point). He tried to open up opportunities for leaders and movements in the union, but it also opened up other opposing movements against the soviet union. The Union basically collapsed and splintered upon itself.

Allende had anti-market, anti-privatization agendas. This is something that the Chilean citizens themselves opposed. Yes, the U.S. was involved, but it's a degree that we don't know about. The fact is that Allende was making reforms that was making the Chilean populace notice and disagree against. Even with all the U.S. involvement in the world, it couldn't have dethroned Allende without the backing of the Chilean people (short of a full-scale invasion). That is a fact you have to realize. Allende's "assassination" is just assumption at this point. Why assassinate a growingly unpopular leader? His influence was waning. Fact: Allende's wife never disputed that it was a suicide. And Fact: close associates of his were present during the time of his death confirmed that it was in fact a suicide.

I understand that China is not confrontational, the Middle Kingdom throughout its history has barely invaded any territories and only sought to maintain its status quo. But the world stage has changed since then. Economics dictates that nations MUST have relationships with each other. The world is smaller than it was then, you can no longer have a self-sustainable nation. The importing and exporting of materials and services now happen at breakneck speeds and efficiency.

China has to realize that if it wants to become a member of the developed world it has make certain compromises.


In regards to the Falun Gong... people are free to believe what they want. As long as they harm nobody in the process, I have no problem with that. A State shouldn't suppress ideas that it disagrees with.

Life should be lead with inquiry. Always ask the validity of anything you encounter. Never turn a blind eye towards something you fear and don't understand.

In regards to the Falun Gong... people are free to believe what they want. As long as they harm nobody in the process, I have no problem with that. A State shouldn't suppress ideas that it disagrees with.

Life should be lead with inquiry. Always ask the validity of anything you encounter. Never turn a blind eye towards something you fear and don't understand.

As for Russia, I don't want to argue any more, I think Russian know exactly what happen and that is why they dislike US.

As for Chile, Allende is the legitimate Chilean president while Pinochet was dictator gaining power through coup, which unfornetly supported by US. So just acknowledge your country's crime instead of keeping meanless argument.

As for FLG, a post-doc in my neighboring lab has personally seen a practioner jumped from building to break his legs, claiming it is the order from Master Li Hongzhi. Not mention hundreds of millions of us have seen a footage about a couple of FLG followers burned themselves in Tian'an'men, nowdays China nobody would do such thing except FLGers. So don't patrinize Chinese people because we are not stupid, there are good reason for us to believe Falun Gong should be eradicated. This is definetely not about liberty.

Of course, if US wants to dance with FLG, that is fine. But I could not help but noticed that FLG behave quite well in US soil and never did any crazy thing as they had done in China, suggesting that FLG maybe just another US plot against communist China.

As for Russia, I don't want to argue any more, I think Russian know exactly what happen and that is why they dislike US.

As for Chile, Allende is the legitimate Chilean president while Pinochet was dictator gaining power through coup, which unfornetly supported by US. So just acknowledge your country's crime instead of keeping meanless argument.

As for FLG, a post-doc in my neighboring lab has personally seen a practioner jumped from building to break his legs, claiming it is the order from Master Li Hongzhi. Not mention hundreds of millions of us have seen a footage about a couple of FLG followers burned themselves in Tian'an'men, nowdays China nobody would do such thing except FLGers. So don't patrinize Chinese people because we are not stupid, there are good reason for us to believe Falun Gong should be eradicated. This is definetely not about liberty.

Of course, if US wants to dance with FLG, that is fine. But I could not help but noticed that FLG behave quite well in US soil and never did any crazy thing as they had done in China, suggesting that FLG maybe just another US plot against communist China.

I've been refuting your arguments you all day long. And I can do it all day long. You're talking based on biased opinion and idealism at this point.

The moment I make a valid case you disengage from the argument. I'll take that as a submissive action on your part, and a psychological victory on my part.

You're acting like the typical scared person that just had his beliefs proven wrong right in front of him. Don't be scared of differing ideas.

Evangelistik - 10.
Wigo - 0.

I'll walk away from this victory with a smile. I hope you can start looking at the world through a more unbiased perspective, I really do. Idealism is exactly the opposite of the pragmatist ideals that your great leader Deng Xiaoping hoped to instill upon the Chinese.

I've been refuting your arguments you all day long. And I can do it all day long. You're talking based on biased opinion and idealism at this point.

The moment I make a valid case you disengage from the argument. I'll take that as a submissive action on your part, and a psychological victory on my part.

You're acting like the typical scared person that just had his beliefs proven wrong right in front of him. Don't be scared of differing ideas.

Evangelistik - 10.
Wigo - 0.

I'll walk away from this victory with a smile. I hope you can start looking at the world through a more unbiased perspective, I really do. Idealism is exactly the opposite of the pragmatist ideals that your great leader Deng Xiaoping hoped to instill upon the Chinese.

Congratulation, self-claimed winner. :)

Congratulation, self-claimed winner. :)

Thank you, i'll take my victory in stride. Remember, you're the one that walked away from it. A debate is a discussion among two people who bring differing arguments to the table. The moment you refused to refute any of my arguments and went strictly on opinion was the moment I viewed you as disengaging.

-
P.S. I'm against the self-immolation of the FLGers... and I sincerely believe that they should have pursued other options to make their point; but Buddhists self-immolated themselves during the Vietnam era (read up on that one, that made a big global impact)... yet I don't see buddhists being harrassed at the level that FLGers do.

Again, I make the point that if you make a statement like that, you should see the implications that it would have on all others similar to it.

according to MY opinion, U.S is the ONLY country in the planet that 99% Chinese DO think it's indeed better than China,currently and potentially. And the ONLY country that Chinese think it will NEVER be able to catch up.

LOlz! I am an American Chinese and I think differently. China will and soon surpass the USA in many fields and will compete with USA head to head. Its already happening.

I like the states, well thats because I was born here but I really don't like US foreign policy. The United States is too arrogant these days treating all other nations like crap. Even my loyalty is being questioned as US tries to contain China and trying every possible way to distablize its government and economy.

W
In regards to the Falun Gong... people are free to believe what they want. As long as they harm nobody in the process, I have no problem with that. A State shouldn't suppress ideas that it disagrees with.

Life should be lead with inquiry. Always ask the validity of anything you encounter. Never turn a blind eye towards something you fear and don't understand.

WTF are you trying to say? Do you even know anything about FLG? Falun Gong was suppressed really because it grew to an anti-gov't organization. It's not their wannabe "religious" "ideas" that were suppressed, but rather the ideas on overthrowing the government.

I would hardly call peaceful & nonviolent demonstrations a coup attempt.

Your CCP itself proclaimed the reason for its cracking down on the Falun Gong were due to it being an "evil cult".

If you knew anything about politics you'd realize that "anti-government" can mean anything to the ultra-sensitive CCP at this point. For God's sake, journalists are jailed and considered "anti-government", just for speaking the truth. The Falun Gong at no point was trying to overthrow the government. They protested, marched, appealed to the government, distributed flyers... they did all that. But at no point did they try to overthrow the CCP, they were merely trying to get their voices heard. If you call that an attempt to overthrow the government then I feel bad for you. The Falun Gong never had any political power to begin with.

I know a bit about the Falun Gong situation, just like I know quite a bit about the Tibetan situation. It's just hard for me to understand how a group that tries to rid the attachment of fighting for power as a crazy, government overthrowing organization.

Knowledge will free you. Try to look at the world from an unbiased perspective.

^^ All you are saying basically means all ordinary Chinese, including those overseas, are stupid. Who give you the right to patrinize us?

I guess somebody needs to read this:
www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html
and then to think, why his country is so disguisting in this planet, even compare to repeatedly bashed China?

So, go home, clean your dirty country before coming here to lecture us!

Why are you so overly defensive? I'm not generalizing the Chinese population as a whole. I'm strictly patronizing YOU and ZERGLING.

What i'm saying is that you should stop believing everything that your government tells you. What i'm saying is that you should try to think freely for yourself. You should know already that the Govt. censors all forms of media heavily; am I being too arrogant when I say that there's a possibility that you've been misled on some topics?

I love China. I hope for the best for that country. But it scares me when I see unfounded Anti-(insert nation here) sentiments that hold no basis of truth; sentiments that are founded upon racial / cultural prejudices.

I'm not patronizing you, it scares me that the possible Chinese leaders of tomorrow would have such biased views towards the world. I'm just here to provide / expand other ideas to you.

AGAIN, i state my main point all along: INQUIRE about the world around you. Seek the truth before you make stupid assumptions that make you sound like an idiot.

Why are you so overly defensive? I'm not generalizing the Chinese population as a whole. I'm strictly patronizing YOU and ZERGLING.

What i'm saying is that you should stop believing everything that your government tells you. What i'm saying is that you should try to think freely for yourself. You should know already that the Govt. censors all forms of media heavily; am I being too arrogant when I say that there's a possibility that you've been misled on some topics?

I love China. I hope for the best for that country. But it scares me when I see unfounded Anti-(insert nation here) sentiments that hold no basis of truth; sentiments that are founded upon racial / cultural prejudices.

I'm not patronizing you, it scares me that the possible Chinese leaders of tomorrow would have such biased views towards the world. I'm just here to provide / expand other ideas to you.

AGAIN, i state my main point all along: INQUIRE about the world around you. Seek the truth before you make stupid assumptions that make you sound like an idiot.

I don't believe many things our goverment told us. However, I believe what our goverment told us about FLG, and essentially every ordinary Chinese does. Feel free to take a poll among Chinese about FLG. And FLG is my whole point, please respect how MAJORITY CHINESE VIEW FLG, AND STOP PATRONIZE US IN THIS SPECIFIC QUESTION.

Good, finally you admit that there's a possibility that you've been misled. This is a step in the right direction.

I never did care much about consensus, just because a million people believe something doesn't mean they're right in believing it. Whether or not the majority believe in a particular idea and I don't doesn't bother me.

If you have any sources that differ from my opinions regarding the Falun Gong then feel free to bring them here.

Like I said, always inquire. I'm not immune to this belief, i'm willing to make changes with how I view the world myself. Always.

I understand that China is not confrontational, the Middle Kingdom throughout its history has barely invaded any territories and only sought to maintain its status quo. But the world stage has changed since then. Economics dictates that nations MUST have relationships with each other. The world is smaller than it was then, you can no longer have a self-sustainable nation. The importing and exporting of materials and services now happen at breakneck speeds and efficiency.

China has to realize that if it wants to become a member of the developed world it has make certain compromises.


In regards to the Falun Gong... people are free to believe what they want. As long as they harm nobody in the process, I have no problem with that. A State shouldn't suppress ideas that it disagrees with.

Life should be lead with inquiry. Always ask the validity of anything you encounter. Never turn a blind eye towards something you fear and don't understand.
another ignorant but consider himself always right american cowboy.
this China,is just stay in your imagination.

The so called "developed world" play game in YOUR rules.when your products flood into developing countrys' market,spoliate their raw and processed materials.You called it"freedom trade".

But when you can't compete other nations in some area,you shout and claim it "unfair".
How hypocrisy!

This is what you always called:Freedom trade and market economy.(by the way,Plz don't repeat the stpuid" exchange rate" problem.)

And,In regards to the Branch Davidians,I deprecate American govment attack
Mount Carmel on February 28th, 1993 in Waco, Texas,killed more than eighty
"freedom fighter" ^_^


"people are free to believe what they want. "
"Life should be lead with inquiry. Always ask the validity of anything you encounter. Never turn a blind eye towards something you fear and don't understand."

evangelistik, you know what, one of the lastest craps from FLG is that they have been claiming millions of CCP members were quiting CCP, and now the number reaches ten millions. Don't you know that? Do you still believe FLG is a religious group?

Waco was a tragedy. But at least the American populace found out about it and was free to pursue more information regarding the matter.

I'll bring it back to you, then, what do you know about your Tiananmen Square Massacre? How much has your government told you about it?

evangelistik, you know what, one of the lastest craps from FLG is that they have been claiming millions of CCP members were quiting CCP, and now the number reaches ten millions. Don't you know that? Do you still believe FLG is a religious group?

Do you have the website for that? I've seen it once, didn't know it was brought about by the FLG.

Claiming that millions of CCP members were quitting isn't necessarily a direct attack at the government, though, is it? I can't imagine how they can overthrow a government with pointing out something like that.

I'll need more.

Waco was a tragedy. But at least the American populace found out about it and was free to pursue more information regarding the matter.

I'll bring it back to you, then, what do you know about your Tiananmen Square Massacre? How much has your government told you about it?

Tiananmen is a tragedy, however, there are reasons behind:
1. those student leaders were intending to subvert goverment, of course, with open and secret support from your country;
2. three times the goverment and students reached agreement that students would leave Tiananmen, however, every time students broke the promise;
3. at that time, China was no way close to east europe scenario, majority of people had issues with the CCP, but subverting it is not an option;
4. Goverment at that point had no soft measures such as tear gas or baton, and because of the foreign involvement, tough measure is the only way to control situation;
5. finally, these student leader, such as Wang Dan and Cai Lin, nowdays are desparitely unpopular among oversea Chinese and labeled as American Running Dogs.

Do you have the website for that? I've seen it once, didn't know it was brought about by the FLG.

Claiming that millions of CCP members were quitting isn't necessarily a direct attack at the government, though, is it? I can't imagine how they can overthrow a government with pointing out something like that.

I'll need more.

google "退党" (means quiting party), tons of information from FLG, unfortunetly there are essentially all in Chinese. If you trust me, I could just tell that now they are claiming the number surpassed 10 millions.

5. finally, these student leader, such as Wang Dan and Cai Lin, nowdays are desparitely unpopular among oversea Chinese and labeled as American Running Dogs.

Actually, overseas Chinese in general have no opinion when it comes to Wang Dan & Cai Lin. This is the first time I've heard them being called American Running Dogs.

The most hated fugitive right now is the notorious Lai Changxing. By abusing Canada's legal system to avoid deportation, he has raised the ire of the Chinese-Canadian community.

Waco was a tragedy. But at least the American populace found out about it and was free to pursue more information regarding the matter.

I'll bring it back to you, then, what do you know about your Tiananmen Square Massacre? How much has your government told you about it?
All you known "Tiananmen Square "Massacre"" just from what your USA media told you,but my teacher ,my brother,my friend were in that place in that time.

I known more accurate information.

In first step,students just deliver their request about the problem"anti corruption".
but at end,manipulated by some foreign organizations,just like"colour revolution" in Ukraine,become a POLITIC tragedy.

And there is no "Massacre".MY teacher,my brother definately told me that.And don't image they will like USA,they all hate what USA hda done in 1989.

And ,most of USA media twisted the truth.I have viewed so many videos downloaded from America site.and i found that,lose my confidence about the so called "independence media“。

For example,I notice a interview of WANG DAN(you known this guy), producted by CNN,but what he said,totally twisted far away from the translation>Maybe CNN believe there no Chinese understand english :bash:

Actually, overseas Chinese in general have no opinion when it comes to Wang Dan & Cai Lin. This is the first time I've heard them being called American Running Dogs.

The most hated fugitive right now is the notorious Lai Changxing. By abusing Canada's legal system to avoid deportation, he has raised the ire of the Chinese-Canadian community.Ii think He refers to the chinese oversea students.of course some migration known nothing about this two"american dog"

evangelistik, sorry I had rough words. But you need to realize that Chinese have no bad intention towards your country. We don't want to take any land from your country, neither do we want to initiate a terrorist strike toward your country. But we don't understand why US is constantly screwing China. I want to caution you that few country is immune to issue such as Taiwan and Tibet for China, and I happen to know that Mexican president Fox has been openly proposing reconquista. So stay from China.

Ii think He refers to the chinese oversea students.of course some migration known nothing about this two"american dog"

Interesting. Some of my friends are Chinese International students who came to UWaterloo for study exchange. Most of them are from Guangzhou/Shanghai though... and I've yet to hear them refer Wang Dan as American Lap Dogs. They get really upset about Lai Changxing though.

Interesting. Some of my friends are Chinese International students who came to UWaterloo for study exchange. Most of them are from Guangzhou/Shanghai though... and I've yet to hear them refer Wang Dan as American Lap Dogs. They get really upset about Lai Changxing though.
interseting
what's your meaning?

it's useless to argue who has a more bad name between chines,Lai or Wang.
This is not the core.

interseting
what's your meaning?

it's useless to argue who has a more bad name between chines,Lai or Wang.
This is not the core.

It's just shocking to me that these names rattle you guys so much. I've been to the Mainland countless times, yet the mention of these names (Wang Dan and Cai Lin) raises very little attention & reaction. But then again, most of the people I acquaint with worry much more about economic growth than politics.

It's just shocking to me that these names rattle you guys so much. I've been to the Mainland countless times, yet the mention of these names (Wang Dan and Cai Lin) raises very little attention & reaction. But then again, most of the people I acquaint with worry much more about economic growth than politics.

True, few people are interested in politics. So I guess it is an overstating to say most of overseas label them as American dogs. But certainly there are people do, and it is true that Wang or Cai are unpopular at all.

I also want to add that on June 4 1989 (day of the Tiananmen incident), mass-scale demonstrations were also held in Guangzhou, Shanghai, Nanjing and other Chinese metropolitans. It's weird how they're rarely mentioned by media outlets. Unlike the hardline Beijing stance, these protests actually ended peacefully.

While I was scanning the Canadian Press Photo archives a while back, I remembered seeing a photo taken in 1989 of Zhu Rongji (former Shanghai Mayor) shaking hands and waving to the students. It's one of the reasons (along with his virtuous stance against corruption, accomplishments in reforming China's economy and his personal involvement in turning Shanghai into a thriving cosmopolitan city) why he's so popular with Chinese both at home and abroad. I'm pretty sure he's still the most popular Mainland politican in Hong Kong public opinion.

^^, you know, I always feel it difficult to understand why those students would be misled by US, a country apparently had no good intention over China, and clapped over the Voice of American, the rumor generator. If the students had been less defient, the bloodshed would have been avoided. Overthrowing goverment is definetely wrong!

^^, you know, I always feel it difficult to understand why those students would be misled by US, a country apparently had no good intention over China, and clapped over the Voice of American, the rumor generator. If the students had been less defient, the bloodshed would have been avoided.

I doubt the students were misled by the US. Rather they were idealist about their dreams for political reform, and did not realize that the country was not stable enough to accept the democratic system of government.

Overthrowing goverment is definetely wrong!

Not necessarily. Recall Chinese history. How many dynasties have we had? How did the new emporers gain power? ... by overthrowing the government. It's definitely not a new concept to the Chinese. Thinking deeper, defience and revolution might even be an undeniable part of our culture. Even Mao had to overthrow the KMT to establish the PRC.

Of course, in modern China, there's no point overthrowing the government since there's many other ways that are more effective in promoting economic and political change (forming a strong, educated and resiliant middle class). There's no point killing the country's economic growth in the name of violent political reform.

I found this from angry chinese blog (http://angrychineseblogger.blog-city.com/testimony_of_a_tiananmen_square_survivor__zhang_boli.htm)

Testimony of A Tiananmen Square Survivor: - Zhang Boli Zhang Boli was deputy director of the students' hunger strike at Tiananmen Square. He then spent two years on the run before fleeing to the United States, where he now lives.

"While we were making preparations news came from all sides saying that the troops had started to open fire. I remember many students ran to the square with blood running down their faces. In some places, troops were shooting and in some places there were clashes. Zhang Huajie had actually been beaten up. When he ran to the square his face was full of blood. He grabbed the microphone and spoke into it: "Fellow students, they have really opened fire now. They are really shooting! They are using their guns and using real bullets!" I couldn't believe it. We at the square at the time could not really believe it. There was a speaker's platform under the statue of the Goddess of Democracy. It was at the time when Yan Jiaqi and I had just started to speak, the troops arrived. And they were moving into Tiananmen Square. Under the floodlight I could see all those dark helmets moving like waves into the square towards us. I felt that the final moment must have come. So I spoke to the students, telling them that we should still behave in the spirit we had adopted all along: "We will not fight back even if we are beaten up, and we will not talk back even if we are cursed upon." We decided to retreat to the Monument of Heroes to wait there for instructions from our command centre. Finally we reached the Monument. Later, Zhou Duo and Hou Dejian removed their white vests and, using them as white flags, they walked over to the troops to negotiate. After all, Hou Dejian was a famous singer of some influence. He couldn't be cast as an anti-revolutionary rebel. When Zhou Duo returned he told the students: "They say over there 'We'll give you only half an hour to leave, to evacuate. If you don't, you will have to bear the consequences.'" So a very important decision was to be made at the time. What are we going to do with the several thousand students here? To leave, to evacuate, or not? Actually it was quite obvious at the time that it was time that we should leave. So when Feng Congde took over the microphone he knew that a heavy burden of history was handed to him. Finally, the lights (at the square) were switched off. When the lights were out the students thought the troops would start shooting. So, many students huddled together. When the lights were out the microphone was also cut off. Feng Congde then used a loud-speaker to speak to the students: "Fellow students, we have two opinions here. One says we should leave now. Another says we should stay put. As I can't see you, please speak aloud to respond. I will first say " WE WILL NOT LEAVE ". If you agree, please say aloud WE AGREE. Then I will say " WE WILL LEAVE ". If you agree, please say " AGREE ". I'll see which response is louder." Actually it was not easy to tell which response from the crowd was louder. Feng Congde quickly made a wise decision: " I am standing here. This is the highest place. I could hear the response for us TO LEAVE was louder. So the command centre have now decided WE SHOULD LEAVE." After it was decided that we should leave, they left only a very small gap for us to leave - just about as wide as this room. But nobody dared to move first. After all, the troops were still in the distance. They had not met us face to face yet. We could only see the helmets. Whoever was first to move and leave [might be mistaken by the troops in the distance as a move of challenge to them.] And if the troops were to fire, those in the front would be the first to be killed, wouldn't they? But there was nothing else the people at the command centre could do, so they led the way to leave first. All the people at the command centre formed a line. They included students who were protecting the command centre. These were students from the Beijing Sports College and were called the pickets. All those in the first three rows to come out were later listed as the most wanted criminals by the Communist Party. I think of the 21 student leaders on the government's most wanted list four or five were there. When we - the first row of people - came out to meet the troops our hearts were really jumping and beating hard. The guns of the People's Army were pointing at [us] and they were loaded. They were holding machine guns. With one pull of the finger they could fire on us. Hou Dejian went over to say: "Would it be OK for you people to raise your guns a bit higher and point at the sky?" It was quite a painful experience. But we came out of the Square. And they didn't fire on us. I think that was because they also had to consider the opinions of the people of the nation and of the whole world. If they were rash enough to decide to finish the lot of us on the spot, they could, but it would not do them any good at all. So it was still quite peaceful when we left Tiananmen Square. But when we reached Liulukou suddenly there was trouble. It was already dawn. A speeding tank came upon us like a gust of wind trying to cut through the lines of people. It was not just trying to run over people, it was also throwing out tear gas. I remember we were all choking and couldn't open our eyes. We just heard the loud rumblings of the tanks. About a dozen metres behind me people were crying in hysteria. I think more than 12, or 20-odd people were in a mess of blood and flesh. It was said later that 11 people were killed there." Zhang Boli, Tiananman Square Survivor

Originally published by the BBC World Service 4 June 2004 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3775907.stm)



The above is just one of the accounts from the student leaders who were at
Tiananmen square on 04/June/1989, you can find the rest on the same website.
All the accounts point to one thing -- there was no massacre on Tiananmen
square.

I doubt the students were misled by the US. Rather they were idealist about their dreams for political reform, and did not realize that the country was not stable enough to accept the democratic system of government.


The students fucked up, period, and they deserve to be punished. People who
don't know how to start a revolution and don't want to put their own lives on
the line to learn shouldn't even think about starting a revolution. Power comes
from blood, weapons and detailed battle plans, not ideologies and hunger-strikes.

Do you have the website for that? I've seen it once, didn't know it was brought about by the FLG.

Claiming that millions of CCP members were quitting isn't necessarily a direct attack at the government, though, is it? I can't imagine how they can overthrow a government with pointing out something like that.

I'll need more.


You are never a FLG member were you? I am not going to argue any more with you as it is a waste of my time...

I doubt the students were misled by the US. Rather they were idealist about their dreams for political reform, and did not realize that the country was not stable enough to accept the democratic system of government.



doesn't matter who was misled by who, it's a matter of the law.

Have you ever tried throwing a buring cocktail bottle at an American cop? You'll be gunned down before you even pull it out.

So how's this different with what happened in Beijing? You throw cocktail bottles at the Army and set their APCs on fire with soldiers still in side. They'll shoot at ya like everybody else.

And standing infront of tanks, did you know that it would be legal for fire trucks in the united states to run you over if you jump infront of it? Its a pitty that the tank stopped, if it were up to me, I'd keep on driving.

IF you don't believe what I've said here, why don't you try it your self.

:lock: I guess you could save a lot lives if you choose to be doctor instead of cops. just kidding

the american control more than 80% of media worldwide, most of the websites and news were writen in english. no wonder these student could be easily mislead into believing those american propaganda. I guess chinese government should do more to promote chinese language in the world and installed more confucious institution in different country.

doesn't matter who was misled by who, it's a matter of the law.

Have you ever tried throwing a buring cocktail bottle at an American cop? You'll be gunned down before you even pull it out.

So how's this different with what happened in Beijing? You throw cocktail bottles at the Army and set their APCs on fire with soldiers still in side. They'll shoot at ya like everybody else.

And standing infront of tanks, did you know that it would be legal for fire trucks in the united states to run you over if you jump infront of it? Its a pitty that the tank stopped, if it were up to me, I'd keep on driving.

IF you don't believe what I've said here, why don't you try it your self.

I think the whole point is, if China had been like east Europe where most of people wanted to topple goverment, then these students' revolution was jutified. Apparently, this was not the case, most Chinese didn't want a revolution. Hence, these student leaders, who asked the students to resist but themselves flee the scene, were criminals. And every Chinese know Cai Lin is the most notorious one in this respect, whom I would call the real murder.

You are never a FLG member were you? I am not going to argue any more with you as it is a waste of my time...

You are obviously an idiot. I was asking for more information and you attack me.

You're not worth talking to if you can't do so in a civilized manner.

US is a powerful , vibrant , rich country, but loves to act as a psychologist, Big Brother.

i know usa is well , but i can not go there for i have no money,

and i can do nothing for any change that i want to do will bring bad thing , gov is too strong that can kill me or prison me easily , alot of person is just as me .

i can understand the war which us initiated and the said on TV is only the gov viewpoint and it is different from the people's viewpoint .you know .

which one can help me ,,,,some one here is the gov officer, and there job is only say something here ,i m afraid of them.

why do u think Chinese is not kind? we are also very friendly may be better than any others

i can understand the war which us initiated and the said on TV is only the gov viewpoint and it is different from the people's viewpoint .you know .
我们主动发起的战争?我觉得大概除了中越战争以外就没有了,大家都知道那是教训越南,不过的确是中国先打的,当然排斥华侨.围魏救赵,越南扩张领土也的确是如此.
which one can help me ,,,,some one here is the gov officer, and there job is only say something here ,i m afraid of them
完了,又要开始"大家抓网特"游戏了,记得当初那个"网络评论员"搞的是满城风雨.

网络评论员，即网评员，中国大陆特有的一种指称，指受中国当局雇佣或指导，以网络发表评论为全职或兼职的人员，是网络时代的一种新型职业。通常他们以普通网人的身份，发表尽可能对官方有利的评论，来试图达到影响网络舆论的目的。
在中国大陆，这个名词最早出现南京大学官方BBS——南京大学BBS上。南京大学校方在关闭小百合BBS，开设南京大学BBS之后，指令学生会干部及一部分热心上进人士为“网评员”，“纳入学校勤工助学体系，根据每月的考评结果发给适当的勤工助学补助”。这些网评员的主要职责是，“南京大学电子论坛通过发帖发布正面信息，跟帖回应抵制消除负面信息，营造积极健康的校园网络环境，同时对校内外网站上有关学校的重要信息及时上报学校网络管理工作领导小组办公室”。

随之，中国江苏省宿迁市等省市也开始聘请网评员。由他们以普通网友的身份，引导“正确导向”，普及“党和政府的方针政策”。

有人猜测，网评员是一个较大的人群，在各省市都有。国内相关论坛聊天室的版主或聊管在问及是否有这群体时，有肯定回答的，但大多拒绝回答。

基本工作方法：

1、在工作时间内必须每小时至少查看一次工作邮箱，时刻注意领会上级指示的最新精神。

2、网络评论员根据上级指示进行合作，根据工作需要，将由跨地区、跨专业的网络评论员组成工作小组，执行特定的任务。在有必要增加人员时，上级将从其他小组抽调人员加以充实。

3、基本工作方法：日常工作按照网站分小组，每个重要网站的有关论坛由一个小组负责。日常工作是按照总体方针，维护正确的网络舆论导向。遇到突发事件，则按照上级部门的专门工作组的指令行事，暂时停止日常工作，把有关人员资源投入到突发事件的舆论导向工作。

4、网络评论员要善于隐瞒自己的真实身份，必需有多个不同的网名，而且不同的网名要发表不同风格的文章。必要的时候，可以由不同小组成员制造网友辩论的假象，然后由第三方推出强有力的证据， 把公众舆论引导到第三方。

5、某些网络谣言出来的时候，必须尽快搜索到谣言的首发地点和首发人，然后勒令网站管理员删除原贴，网络评论员则拷贝内容，以不同的IP地址发表自己就是事发所在地的当地人的申明，然后由版主或以其他网友身份指出：他的IP地址不在事发所在地，该消息纯属谣传。

6、必要时可以制造更加耸人听闻的假新闻，吸引网民视线，然后很快澄清该消息纯属谣言。

7、某些论坛人气不错，网友信用度比较高，这时首先要做的是制造一种混乱，通过似是而非的文章进行干涉，跟贴作非理性的故意曲解、制造误会和争辩，转移网民注意力。

8、海外网站较难控制，当不能主导论坛舆论的时候，可以采用大量短贴、无实质内容贴、非理性贴进行刷屏，令版面充斥无意义的混乱，使读者失去兴趣，这样达到避免反动思想流通传播的目的。

9、不断学习，提高文字水平，学会使用不同的文笔风格写作，善于模仿他人文笔，这是网络评论员的基本功。

10、学会与网友交流的技巧，与网友私下打成一片，获取网友的信任，尤其是那些文章有影响力的网友。如果有可能，争取一些重要论坛的版主位置。

11、培养高超的判断力，能够在诸多贴子中迅速找到真正有影响力的帖子和写手，作为重点工作对象。

12、注意培养政策法规意识，不可误解当前的工作精神。注意吃透上级指示的近期发贴类型实例，融会贯通，举一反三。

13、灵活性与原则性相结合。一定要制造真假难辨的形象，成为一个不容易被鉴别身份的人。不仅要熟悉我们的观点，更要熟悉对方的思路，知己知彼。

14、网络评论员要时刻牢记自己的光荣任务，不被困难和误解阻挡，不在乎表面上的面子，做到任何情况下不会真正被对方激怒，永远保持理性、冷静的心理。

15、网络评论员要立场坚定，头脑清醒，在各种富有迷惑力的思潮面前保持清醒的头脑，珍惜自己的政治前途。

16、网络评论员实行小组监督和纠察监督相结合的原则。其工作成绩由上级有关部门评定。

以上16条，是网络评论员的工作指南。希望各有关部门认真学习，落实贯彻，在“保先”运动中争做先锋。

网络舆论导向工作指导委员会
2005年6月

美日高薪雇用“网特”占领BBS专事反华
日前，据总部设在北美的一家中文BBS网站对经常在网上发表文章的人的背景调查，结果发现，美国CIA、日本都雇佣了一批人专门在中文网上张贴诬蔑攻击中国的文章和真假消息。
　　　　　　
近来，不断有来自新华网、凤凰卫视等媒体的消息称，美国、日本雇用“写手”占领全球中文BBS。千龙网记者对此进行了再调查。
　　　　
“亲美雇佣网络写手”浮出水面
　　　　　
千龙网记者在暗访中发现，仅针对2003年的美国对伊拉克的战争，很多被访者谈到，在新浪、雅虎、163等中文网上经常看到一些对美国历次行为叫好的言论。“我始终觉得很奇怪，怎么现实中的所见所闻与网上看到的言论在比例上是如此不协调。”一位不愿透露姓名的人士说，前不久他的一个美国公司驻京办事处的朋友说可以给他一些经费，请他在网上发一些对美国比较正面的言论。这件事正好给出了答案。
　　　　　　
“在去年国庆期间的一次宴会上，我和几个刚认识的朋友聊到了国际局势和网络的言论自由，一个朋友说有人曾经要给他一些钱，让他常在中文网上发一些支持美国战伊的帖子。从所发表文章列前几位的网络的地址、语言风格、署名、言论以及所攻击的方向、采用的方式、所引证的论据看，明显存在一个有目的、有计划的组织，权且称之‘中国亲美网络雇佣战士’吧。”这位人士说，据他所知，这支队伍的人数大概有200名左右，费用粗算总计约合160万美元，内部组织机构和分工不明。
　　　　　　
“美国中央情报局在编制假新闻和雇人扰乱人心上有过不少臭名昭著的‘前科’。他们这样做已经很多年了。”2月4日下午，外交学院的刘妍在接受千龙网记者采访时说，在五六十年代，美国中央情报局雇了萨尔瓦多的叛变者，用一个在美国的电台，每天向萨尔瓦多发散布谣言的所谓“新闻”，为推翻当时的社会主义政党，用来挑动人心，制造混乱。美国中央情报局事后得出结论：这种手段有效。以后便雇用各国的“前卫人士”尤其是叛逆者，利用他们用其母语来散布谣言。
　　　　　　
不少被访者认为，在中国，被雇佣的“写手”大多本来是中国人，但后来“痛改前非”而摇身变成“美国佬”、“日本小鬼子”、“台毒”等，也有一些是冒充的中国人，如某论坛的JAPANESE BOY－JBOY等。
　　　　　　
2月4日晚9时，国务院某咨询中心著名学者丁小平教授在接受千龙网记者采访时明确地说，日本是美国的“走狗”，美国和日本对中国这样的破坏措施和进攻策略是必然的，而且也是明摆着的。“就我个人所知道和认识的人中，干这样事情的就有不少，我是很看不起他们的。”他说，美国和日本，尤其是美国有大量基金会出钱，让中国人从事“自毁长城”的事情。 　　　　　
　　　　　　
制造反华言论是雇佣“写手”的工作
　　　　　
网络的出现，为人们提供了绝好的发表意见的平台，为言论自由打下了坚实的基础，有了网络，人们可以在第一时间对任何突发的事件发表评论，任何评论都可以在第一时间被所有的人看到。网络模糊了作者与读者的界限，把地球变小了，把眼界变大了。
　　　　　　
但是我们同样可以看到，在网络上，雇佣“写手”的反华言论也找到了他们的生存空间，他们利用网络的虚拟性与网络的渗透性，无孔不入。记者在各大网站的论坛看到，每条新闻的留言、重大事件的综述、新闻焦点的内幕……千篇一律的反华言论无所不在。
　　　　　　
反华言论可谓五花八门，不过大多是为了打击中国人的民族自尊与自信的或搞民族分裂的。他们称“人权高于主权”，所以“分裂有理，独立无罪”，中国应该像李登辉所说的那样被分为七块，并妄自修正历史，说东北原来是满族人的地盘，所以满洲国存在是有道理的；长江南北的中国人在体形、语言、生活习惯上有差异，所以中国应该划江而治；新疆、西藏、内蒙古在历史上看应该是一个独立的国家；五千年的文明史祸害中国；中华民族是劣等民族，中国人永远是二等公民，爱国、务实、创新、求真、正直等这些人性中的优点只有西方人或者日本人才具有……
　　　　　　
记者注意到，在各大中文论坛里，还有针对政府，专门攻击政府的施政方针或国家领导人的，他们没有标准，没有鉴别，凡是政府所做的都是错误的，都是卖国的；凡是政府官员都是腐败、无赖。一个网友说，反华言论的本质都一样，那就是不希望看见一个民主、富强、文明、团结、自主、独立的中国存在。这些“写手”以满足自己骂人的欲望或以颠覆、内乱、分裂、削弱中华人民共和国为目的，以编造事实、恶意辱骂、欺骗民众或为手段，以网络、报刊、电台等为媒介。
　　　　　　
“他们是拿工资的‘网特’，你驳他、骂他，他都不会走。凡是跟贴吹捧的笔名，都有可能是他们的同伙，或者根本就是一个人。”一位网友表示，这些“写手”一方面寻找思想松动者，另一方面寄希望于“谎言说一千遍就是真理”。值得注意的是，不少跟贴是在中国的夜间发表的，也就是说他们有时差，他们中许多人可能不在国内。
　　　　
美日所雇“写手”常用四种伎俩
　　　　　　　
这些“写手”在全球中文BBS上肆无忌惮：打击中国人的爱国热情、诋毁中国取得的任何成绩、大肆散布谣言和宣扬坏消息、玷污中国的英雄人物和领导人……记者在采访中发现，这也正是“写手”们惯用的手段。
　　　　　　
■打击中国人的爱国热情。对全国人民推崇的、爱戴的，他们就极力打击，对发表爱国文章的人进行恶意辱骂和贬低，称他们是“爱国贼”、“粪青”、“太子党”、“共狗”等等，同时宣扬“如果美国人打进中国来，那一定是为了中国人民的‘民主、自由’而来的，我们不应该去反抗，而且是应该帮助美国人”。而且往往以不同笔名发表多个跟贴，给人以“人多势众”的感觉，仿佛中国爱国的人已经廖廖，多数人都是象他们一样，对中国恨之入骨。
　　　　　　
■诋毁中国取得的任何成绩，或者根本不提中国还有成绩。他们只对负面的消极的东西敏感和感兴趣，对中国经济和社会的发展和进步、人民生活水平的提高等积极和正面的东西视而不见、避而不谈。记者在某网站BBS上看到这样的言论：“从经济角度看，中国的经济是个奇怪的经济混合体，一种充满了管制下的原始资本主义，既无长期战略，也无短期目标；中国的法律不少，但都是东拼西凑还相互矛盾制约，几乎毫无用处；我们施行的救火式改革让我们半休克了二十年，并给我们的未来带来更多的痛苦……”如果有人赞扬成就，他们就群起攻击，说其是共产党的爪牙、太监，是无耻。
　　　　　　
■大肆散布关于中国的谣言、假消息。这些假消息当然都是坏的，如某某领导人的女儿、某某太子党如何在海外过奢华的生活、中国导弹击毁台湾华航客机；他们编造出中国人吃婴儿的假新闻和吃人的历史，如中国广东东莞“人吃人”，等等，试图唤起世界人民对中国人的鄙视和中国人对自己的政府和国家的仇恨。对中国确实发生的一些坏事，不但连篇累牍地张贴，还添油加醋、尽可能地补充不实的内容，牵强附会地发掘所谓“内幕”。
　　　　　　
■玷污中国的英雄人物和领导人。如据他们“考证”，岳飞根本不是“忠臣”，秦桧倒是受到了“不公待遇”，应该“平反”。领导中国人民站起来的毛泽东因为在朝鲜战场使美国人丢了“面子”而成了十恶不赦的“暴君”，他发动的十年文革更是“罄竹难书，饿死几千万”。其实这些人对文革根本一无所知。同时，他们也为反面人物叫好，说汪精卫是“在黑暗中的伟大人物，他一心 让中国免于战火之中，他一心要让中国人民与日本人民一样，生活在天皇的光辉之下，过着皇道乐土衣食无忧的生活”。
　　　　　　
雇佣“写手”“占领”中文BBS三大危害
　　　　　　　
美国炸了中国大使馆是“该炸”，撞了中国飞机是“中国飞机太好斗”，美国人还在媒体公开幸灾乐祸是人家“幽默”；河南人做假，湖南人最具反抗精神，因而“该死”；新疆人该“造反”，西藏人该“独立”，等等，遇事不管三七二十一，先“黑”了再说。这大概是这些“写手”最形象的写照。专家指出，这些“写手”的言行必然导致至少三大危害。
　　　　　　
■制造谣言破坏稳定。美、日“写手”不断造谣惑众，就是企图在中国制造混乱，破坏社会稳定，让人民群众无法正常工作、学习和生活，干扰经济建设这项中心工作，进而实现他们推翻中国共产党的领导、改变中国社会主义制度的政治图谋。
　　　　　　
■混淆青年一代正确的价值观念。“青年是上网人群的绝对主体，这个事情要小心。”　　　　　　
■抹黑中国和中国人在世界人民心中的形象。这些“写手”极力渲染中国“人吃人”、不讲信用、街道的垃圾堆成山、中国官员全腐败、中国人野蛮虚伪，等等，总之“妖魔化”中国和中国人，让人读过之后，在政治上、道德上、种族上和文化上厌恶和仇恨中国和中国人。

扬子晚报·宿迁26名网评员今上岗
(04/29 06:53)

　　本报讯　昨日下午，由宿迁市委宣传部聘请的26位网络评论员，在宿迁市**办公大楼领取了聘书，并于今天正式上岗。为进一步加强网上舆论引导，经过基层推荐、严格选拔，该市在全市范围内招聘了**素质好、理论水平高、新闻嗅觉敏锐的第一批26名网络评论员。该市市委宣传部将定期或不定期对重点网站评论员组织培训，年终根据发帖量、跟帖量等情况进行综合测评，并列入全市宣传工作表彰奖励范畴。（蔡啸泉）

为贯彻落实（**中央，国务院关于进一步加强和改进大学生思想**教育的意见）精神，加大对校园网络的管理力度，同时为进一步提高广大同学的自律意识，强化学生骨干队伍的“三自”职能，引导青年学生文明上网，加强网络道德和舆论建设，自觉净化校园网络，决定成立“南京大学学生网评小组”。具体方案如下：

　　1 ……
　　2 南京大学学生网评小组受南京大学网络管理工作领导小组办公室领导，由南京大学团委指导工作，南京大学团委宣传部部长担任日常工作的指导老师。
　　3 学生网评小组成员（学生网评员）由南京大学团委各部副部长，南京大学研究生会，学生会部长以上（含部长），南京大学社团联合会主席团的学生干部以及在各院系中招募的一定数量学生骨干构成。
　　4 ……
　　5 学生网评员的主要工作职责是在南京大学电子论坛通过发帖发布正面信息，跟帖回应抵制消除负面信息，营造积极健康的校园网络环境，同时对校内外网站上有关学校的重要信息及时上报学校网络管理工作领导小组办公室。
　　6 学生网评员的工作主要根据在南京大学电子论坛的上站时间，发帖和跟帖数量，上报信息数量进行综合考评。考评每月开展一次，实行自报和抽检相结合的方式进行。南京大学团委在每学期末根据综合考评情况评选表彰优秀网评员，并作为优秀学生干部，优秀团干部的评选指标之一。
　　7 学生网评员纳入学校勤工助学体系，根据每月的考评结果发给适当的勤工助学补助。

------------------------------------------------------------
江西首支“网军”成立
http://www.jxnews.com.cn/n12039/ca814783.htm
大江网8日讯[记者 吴跃军]报道：今天下午，“大江网网络评论员队伍成立暨首届网络评论员座谈会”在南昌召开，宣布大江网网络评论员队伍成立。至此，江西诞生了首支“网军”，填补了江西网络评论员队伍的空白。
随着互联网的普及，网民数量的急速增加，互联网已成为继报纸、电台、电视台之后的一种主要宣传媒体，基于互联网互动性之上的网络新闻评论，则成为当前各大新闻网站的关注点。
据了解,为做好网络评论工作，正确引导网络舆论，大江网于今年年初开始组建网络评论员队伍,招募了一批**素质高,有较深文字功底,同时具备一定的新闻敏感性的网友,担当起发表新闻时评、引导舆论导向的重任。同时,大江网还开辟了“大江时评”专栏,为网络评论员提供了阵地。这支“网军”的16名成员来自全省各个单位。

算了,还是不要说名字好,虽然这些名字已经在网上传的很多了.

ice787306, sh1t, I don't care who and where you pretent to be, but why you are so ashame of showing your true identity. is that because you have some severe inferier complex.

Maybe We should leave you alone, because I am afraid that you got paid by "powerful" usa government for trolling here. no trolling mean no money for you. I have seen alot case like you(ice787306) in many different forum. so could you be kind enough just to leave us alone

i m so busy working everyday have no time to discuss with u or i will have no money to buy food .

alot of persons r the same to me but they r more busy that have no time to come here..............

i just tell u the truth ,,,,no other meaning ,so don't abuse me .......

i m so busy working everyday have no time to discuss with u or i will have no money to buy food .

alot of persons r the same to me but they r more busy that have no time to come here..............

i just tell u the truth ,,,,no other meaning ,so don't abuse me .......
truth?

you call all the bullshit you posted recently "truth"?

LOL...

Are you all right?Do you need a headshrinker?

i m so busy working everyday have no time to discuss with u or i will have no money to buy food .

alot of persons r the same to me but they r more busy that have no time to come here..............

i just tell u the truth ,,,,no other meaning ,so don't abuse me .......
I think maybe becasue you have little time to be on line,so you also don't know other things,I belive you are a worker in company or has some relationship to HongKong,Singapore company,not student. Becasue you use "u r i alot",such English always used in SEA company in mainland.Maybe I'm wrong.

truth?

you call all the bullshit you posted recently "truth"?

LOL...

Are you all right?Do you need a headshrinker?

I don't understand what Ice787306 meant, But I guess he is a common Chinese like all of us struggling for life. The tough life he experienced made him feel hopeless and disappointed.

I don't want to talk about this, but "the awful truth" of SONY ENTERTAINMENT can tell you everything...

I love Micheal Moore...

evangelistik:
US bankrupted Russia, assasinated Chilean president Allende, invaded Iraq, while payed a blind eye to Rwanda's massacre. So please just fool yourself, but leave us alone. China is none of your buisness!

Not to be ignorant. China did not respond to the Rwandan incident either. Plus it is not our duty to help every country at all times. And I have heard that America donated the most aid than any other country. We can't help everyone at all times. We did not get that much international help from Katrina did we? This is coming from a Korean in America.

Not to be ignorant. China did not respond to the Rwandan incident either. Plus it is not our duty to help every country at all times. .
Funny, not-interfering-internal-affair is China's policy, China just sticked to it.
Tell me what is US's policy, and why US spared the human right duty in Rwanda, just because it is valueless? Unless US can make the story straight, leave other countries alone, okay?

Funny, not-interfering-internal-affair is China's policy, China just sticked to it.
Tell me what is US's policy, and why US spared the human right duty in Rwanda, just because it is valueless? Unless US can make the story straight, leave other countries alone, okay?

So, you don't think the Chinese government isn't committing a human rights violation to it's people? I'm just curious.

Have you seen that chinese lady in washington who was yelling at the chinese premier while he was making his speech together with President Bush? If you have seen it, what do you think about it?

So, you don't think the Chinese government isn't committing a human rights violation to it's people? I'm just curious.

Yes, I do know that Chinese gov't has human rights violation. However, most of us know that sudden political change is not the interest of our nation, as demonstrated by what happened in Russia.

Have you seen that chinese lady in washington who was yelling at the chinese premier while he was making his speech together with President Bush? If you have seen it, what do you think about it?
Yes, we know that. To be perfectly honest, most of us don't like her, and her Falun Gong, period.

US is the kind of people who do everything for their own interset but tell others they are doing for the welfare of others. The worst of it is that they even believe that.

So, you don't think the Chinese government isn't committing a human rights violation to it's people? I'm just curious.

===============================================================
You may ask the same question to the US government. Violation do happen sometimes, and if it is against the law, officials will be punished (read the news). For those who think Chinese people are living in a place where they are deprived of human rights, come to China have a look. Forget about FLG, they are insane. For those who think Chinese people have no freedom of speech, learn some Chinese and visit the forums in major Chinese web-sites, or read some Chinese newspapers or magazines. Even the law may change or officials be investigated and arrested after people bring up issues or wrong doing of officials in the web or newspapers, those things are no longer big news in China. We may not as free as people in the US, at lease we are still not allowed to publish pornographic material.

为什么你们英文都那么好，我看都看不懂！

我怎么觉得中国越来越肤浅物质、盲目爱国。 :weirdo:

西方民主不是十全十美，不过没像咱那种黑猫白猫那样不伦不类，说什么发展建设，不能绝对化，但确实是建筑在众多人的痛苦之上。还不早点醒过来，学会分开党跟国家。忠于中国的我支持，忠于党的我只能可怜

是啊，俄罗斯经济大破产不是不伦不类，印度有世界最大的贫民窟不是不伦不类？美国靠殖民、黑奴、发战争财不是不伦不类？
印度47%的儿童营养又是建立在谁的痛苦之上的？
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345697
你要这么在乎西方人怎么看，就去印度的贫民窟呆着吧，什么都没有但票是有的投。中国没你的事。

Before blaming US. You should look at the crimes of your government. I hope that people supporting Chinese gouvernment aren't the majority of the Chinese population...... I think that USA invaded Iraq unfairly with no valid reason. and i think Bush isn't a Great president. But china can't blame US for something.

It's a great democracy, a land of freedom which fight to further its ideas. it's the USA which free my country and the west europe of nazis, that's this same country which fought against the communists to save South Korea, which beat Japanese army to put in place a democracy. in spite of Japan’s cities destruction.
Japan became the second economic great power. What has China made during the same period ?

I know ... Cultural Revolution, 500,000 dead persons. The Tibet’s invasion. The Tiananmen Square Massacre, 400 to 2,600 dead persons.
it's true Mao united a divided and corrupt nation, China with the Xiaoping's action became a Great Nation. in the next 20 or 30 years, China will be the first Great Power.
that's great for them, us and of course for the skyscrapers' construction.
But There is heavy government involvement in the media, with many of the largest media organizations being run by the Communist government. References to Democracy, the free Tibet movement, Taiwan as an independent state, certain religious organizations and anything remotely questioning the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China are banned from use in publications and blocked on the Internet.
In China - the country that accounts for around 80% of all executions - a person can be sentenced and executed for as many as 68 crimes, including non-violent crimes such as tax fraud, embezzlement and drug offences.
it's not a national interest to do this. Continuing to be a dictatorship is not vital for China development. it's stupid to quote India as an example and say it's a democracy but people are poor, so we have to stay in our system. I can choose Japan as an example, it's a rich, democratic Asian country whereas after the WW2, they were in a difficult situation.

Before blaming US. You should look at the crimes of your government. I hope that people supporting Chinese gouvernment aren't the majority of the Chinese population...... I think that USA invaded Iraq unfairly with no valid reason. and i think Bush isn't a Great president. But china can't blame US for something.

It's a great democracy, a land of freedom which fight to further its ideas. it's the USA which free my country and the west europe of nazis, that's this same country which fought against the communists to save South Korea, which beat Japanese army to put in place a democracy. in spite of Japan’s cities destruction.
Japan became the second economic great power. What has China made during the same period ?

I know ... Cultural Revolution, 500,000 dead persons. The Tibet’s invasion. The Tiananmen Square Massacre, 400 to 2,600 dead persons.
it's true Mao united a divided and corrupt nation, China with the Xiaoping's action became a Great Nation. in the next 20 or 30 years, China will be the first Great Power.
that's great for them, us and of course for the skyscrapers' construction.
But There is heavy government involvement in the media, with many of the largest media organizations being run by the Communist government. References to Democracy, the free Tibet movement, Taiwan as an independent state, certain religious organizations and anything remotely questioning the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China are banned from use in publications and blocked on the Internet.
In China - the country that accounts for around 80% of all executions - a person can be sentenced and executed for as many as 68 crimes, including non-violent crimes such as tax fraud, embezzlement and drug offences.
it's not a national interest to do this. Continuing to be a dictatorship is not vital for China development. it's stupid to quote India as an example and say it's a democracy but people are poor, so we have to stay in our system. I can choose Japan as an example, it's a rich, democratic Asian country whereas after the WW2, they were in a difficult situation.

LOL ... so much ignorance and prepostorous selfrightiousness ... when is your free and democratic nation going to set Corsica and the Pays Basque free? When is your great nation going to give up all oversea territories? FYI most people in China are indeed supporting the current government ... So, what are you going to do? Form another Eight Nation Alliance to free the Chinese?

BTW google Eight Nation Alliance and China. :sleepy:

Before blaming US. You should look at the crimes of your government. I hope that people supporting Chinese gouvernment aren't the majority of the Chinese population...... I think that USA invaded Iraq unfairly with no valid reason. and i think Bush isn't a Great president. But china can't blame US for something.

It's a great democracy, a land of freedom which fight to further its ideas. it's the USA which free my country and the west europe of nazis, that's this same country which fought against the communists to save South Korea, which beat Japanese army to put in place a democracy. in spite of Japan’s cities destruction.
Japan became the second economic great power. What has China made during the same period ?

I know ... Cultural Revolution, 500,000 dead persons. The Tibet’s invasion. The Tiananmen Square Massacre, 400 to 2,600 dead persons.
it's true Mao united a divided and corrupt nation, China with the Xiaoping's action became a Great Nation. in the next 20 or 30 years, China will be the first Great Power.
that's great for them, us and of course for the skyscrapers' construction.
But There is heavy government involvement in the media, with many of the largest media organizations being run by the Communist government. References to Democracy, the free Tibet movement, Taiwan as an independent state, certain religious organizations and anything remotely questioning the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China are banned from use in publications and blocked on the Internet.
In China - the country that accounts for around 80% of all executions - a person can be sentenced and executed for as many as 68 crimes, including non-violent crimes such as tax fraud, embezzlement and drug offences.
it's not a national interest to do this. Continuing to be a dictatorship is not vital for China development. it's stupid to quote India as an example and say it's a democracy but people are poor, so we have to stay in our system. I can choose Japan as an example, it's a rich, democratic Asian country whereas after the WW2, they were in a difficult situation.

China is a relative new country with a long background, it's just starting to gets the teast of democercy, however China can't turn to democercy over night, it will took a long period of time to trasform (or it will end up like Russia...) U.S has done many thing worng when they start their democercy path, so I don't think anyone should critisize China for not having the same freedom as U.S dose

China is a relative new country with a long background, it's just starting to gets the teast of democercy, however China can't turn to democercy over night, it will took a long period of time to trasform (or it will end up like Russia...) U.S has done many thing worng when they start their democercy path, so I don't think anyone should critisize China for not having the same freedom as U.S dose

The funny part is ... he /she also forgot how long it took France to become a true democracy ... from the storm on the Bastille over Robespierre, Napoleon and now to the Fifth Republic ... :sleepy:

it's stupid to quote India as an example and say it's a democracy but people are poor, so we have to stay in our system. I can choose Japan as an example, it's a rich, democratic Asian country whereas after the WW2, they were in a difficult situation.

There are stupid persons for sure, but not me. Japan had already mastered very sophiscated technology before WWII, and these techonology was not ruined by WWII and was vital for Japan's growth. So how can you compare Japan with China, a country which could not produce any industrial goods in 1950. Indeed, China's gdp per catita was only half of India in 1950.

LOL ... so much ignorance and prepostorous selfrightiousness ... when is your free and democratic nation going to set Corsica and the Pays Basque free? When is your great nation going to give up all oversea territories? FYI most people in China are indeed supporting the current government ... So, what are you going to do? Form another Eight Nation Alliance to free the Chinese?

BTW google Eight Nation Alliance and China. :sleepy:


I like people who insult the others of being ignorant et stupid whereas they know nothing about what they say.
Corsica is a French Island with a regional identity but only 38% of the Corsica's inhabitants demand the independance.
6% of the Martinique and Guadeloupe's inhabitants which are our oversea territories demand the independance. moreover people living there are french, african-French and european-French, whereas China invaded Tibet which belonged to the Tibetians, it's an invasion.. but i'm not saying that china have to free the Tibet.
I'm saying china's gouvernment isn't legitimate.. and if you support the gouvernment, you should not blame US which is much better.. it's unshakable.

Before blaming US. You should look at the crimes of your government. I hope that people supporting Chinese gouvernment aren't the majority of the Chinese population...... I think that USA invaded Iraq unfairly with no valid reason. and i think Bush isn't a Great president. But china can't blame US for something.

It's a great democracy, a land of freedom which fight to further its ideas. it's the USA which free my country and the west europe of nazis, that's this same country which fought against the communists to save South Korea, which beat Japanese army to put in place a democracy. in spite of Japan’s cities destruction.
Japan became the second economic great power. What has China made during the same period ?

I know ... Cultural Revolution, 500,000 dead persons. The Tibet’s invasion. The Tiananmen Square Massacre, 400 to 2,600 dead persons.
it's true Mao united a divided and corrupt nation, China with the Xiaoping's action became a Great Nation. in the next 20 or 30 years, China will be the first Great Power.
that's great for them, us and of course for the skyscrapers' construction.
But There is heavy government involvement in the media, with many of the largest media organizations being run by the Communist government. References to Democracy, the free Tibet movement, Taiwan as an independent state, certain religious organizations and anything remotely questioning the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China are banned from use in publications and blocked on the Internet.
In China - the country that accounts for around 80% of all executions - a person can be sentenced and executed for as many as 68 crimes, including non-violent crimes such as tax fraud, embezzlement and drug offences.
it's not a national interest to do this. Continuing to be a dictatorship is not vital for China development. it's stupid to quote India as an example and say it's a democracy but people are poor, so we have to stay in our system. I can choose Japan as an example, it's a rich, democratic Asian country whereas after the WW2, they were in a difficult situation.

Didn't you demonstrate and struggle with policemen today?So free,you... that come into Chinese forum for expanding and propagandising the debate a la francaise:weirdo:

I like people who insult the others of being ignorant et stupid whereas they know nothing about what they say.
Corsica is a French Island with a regional identity but only 38% of the Corsica's inhabitants demand the independance.
6% of the Martinique and Guadeloupe's inhabitants which are our oversea territories demand the independance. moreover people living there are french, african-French and european-French, whereas China invaded Tibet which belonged to the Tibetians, it's an invasion.. but i'm not saying that china have to free the Tibet.
I'm saying china's gouvernment isn't legitimate.. and if you support the gouvernment, you should not blame US which is much better.. it's unshakable.
you are ignorant in the first place. Pay attention to the fact that the current Dalai Lama was endorsed by the republic of China gov't and every Dalai lama was endorsed by China's central gov't historically.
I give you a homework: to find out whether french president is appointed by foreign gov't?

I like people who insult the others of being ignorant et stupid whereas they know nothing about what they say.
Corsica is a French Island with a regional identity but only 38% of the Corsica's inhabitants demand the independance.

LOL,You are so acknowledged that you even don't know less than 20% of Taiwanese ask for independance.So Taiwan could be independant,Why not LAISSER Corsica?How about those 38%?being with France sinking and sinking day by day?OMG,Africa might catch up with the island some day...

I'm saying china's gouvernment isn't legitimate.. and if you support the gouvernment, you should not blame US which is much better.. it's unshakable.

Yeah,I thought you would say the US govt is obviously much better than your french counterpart. :weirdo:

LOL,You are so acknowledged that you even don't know less than 20% of Taiwanese ask for independance.So Taiwan could be independant,Why not LAISSER Corsica?How about those 38%?being with France sinking and sinking day by day?OMG,Africa might catch up with the island some day...

The KMT won a decisive victory in the 3-in-1 local elections of December 2005, replacing the DPP as the largest party at the local level. This was seen as a major victory for the party ahead of legislative elections in 2007.

moreover people living there are french, african-French and european-French

LOL,I think you cannot make up anything when here exists someone living in France.Do you wanna talk about human rights of African french?FIRE THE CAR,FIRE THE CAR,OUR PATHETIC AFRICAN FRIENDS. :bash: :ohno:

whereas China invaded Tibet which belonged to the Tibetians, it's an invasion.. but i'm not saying that china have to free the Tibet.

Lets wait Pangu and Sen to respond to you,Im not specialized in Politics. :)

i'm not saying that France is a perfect country, we have many problems but i guess that supporting a dictatorship is wrong

The KMT won a decisive victory in the 3-in-1 local elections of December 2005, replacing the DPP as the largest party at the local level. This was seen as a major victory for the party ahead of legislative elections in 2007.

Pangu will repond to you exactly soon. :)

i'm not saying that France is a perfect country, we have many problems but i guess that supporting a dictatorship is wrong

I dont' see a crappy democracy's better?

i'm not saying that France is a perfect country, we have many problems but i guess that supporting a dictatorship is wrong

Personally I don't see China as a dictatership country

" FIRE THE CAR,FIRE THE CAR,OUR PATHETIC AFRICAN FRIENDS. "

you're also racist, there also were maghreb-french and white-french in the riots.....

i'm not saying that France is a perfect country, we have many problems but i guess that supporting a dictatorship is wrong


But I guess it's wronger to not support it. So you choose the less evil option.

you're also racist, there also were maghreb-french and white-french in the riots.....

^yup,I just didn't mention them.

I actually find poor white people to be worse than Africans. At least Africans have some respect.

I like people who insult the others of being ignorant et stupid whereas they know nothing about what they say.
Corsica is a French Island with a regional identity but only 38% of the Corsica's inhabitants demand the independance.
6% of the Martinique and Guadeloupe's inhabitants which are our oversea territories demand the independance. moreover people living there are french, african-French and european-French, whereas China invaded Tibet which belonged to the Tibetians, it's an invasion.. but i'm not saying that china have to free the Tibet.
I'm saying china's gouvernment isn't legitimate.. and if you support the gouvernment, you should not blame US which is much better.. it's unshakable.

LOL ... the same could be said about Taiwan or any part of China ... local identity ... LOL

What about Pays Basque?

Where are the original inhabitants of Martinique and Guadeloupe? Where is the culture of the the original inhabitants ... the language, the customs ...? what a hypocrite you are!

Show us an internationally recognised document that states Tibet was an independent nation with full souvereinity? Why did the current Dalai Lama have to be endorsed by the government of the Republic of China? LOL

LOL,You are so acknowledged that you even don't know less than 20% of Taiwanese ask for independance.So Taiwan could be independant,Why not LAISSER Corsica?How about those 38%?being with France sinking and sinking day by day?OMG,Africa might catch up with the island some day...

I have family in Corsica, the main problem there is corruption and gansters that make business difficult.
If I compare with the chinese comunist position on Taiwan, it is so easy to say "it could be independant if they wanted to" and say at the same time "if you declare independance, we declare war". China wants no poll in Taiwan and menaces to invade the island if they declare independance. Note that in France, there were free polls in Caledonia and Corsica, both of which were negative. different stories.
Besides, if Hong Kong people were happy with the way Beijing appoints political leader, Taiwan would surely feel more comfortable with China. Hong Kong people are not so happy with the institutions and that was visible in the poll where they rejected a new (?) constitution.


Of course you can say France did worse with the algerian war (Corsica's not a good example, there was a poll without a threat of war or retalliation). I think no powerfull country is respectable on territorial issues, all have failings.
I do not omit we did produce our cultural genocide too, but it ended in the 30's, it is mostly over now.
US, France, UK, China all do the same shit when they can.


@Tiger - french riots
Considering the riots, of course this is terrible. I'll add I am convinced that people would be shot down if that happened in the USA or in China, in the USA because gang members would be armed, and in China to enforce civil order. At least my country values more peoples than cars.
Besides if you really think France is sinking day by day, you may wonder french people are still so much wealthier. Frankly going to the USA opened up my eyes on how easy life is in France. I really think the difference with french people is they speak up far more easily than in any other country on social issues. Protests in China are severly controlled or repressed, and on much more serious issues. And of course, not that advertised in the press because journalist can go everywhere.
I think the free press tends to exagerate realities to create sensationalism. France does not escape to the rule.

-concerning the US
However I wouldn't defend so much the US, given the number of democracies they destroyed and authoritarian regimes they set up in the third world, especially in south America. They did a good job during WWII, but I do not think they made many pro-democracy moves ever since Nixon became president. US citizens are more or less aware of this. But they have good intentions, as shows their indignation to Bush's ridiculous response to the tsunami one year ago. So they are bad on foreign policy, but not exactly evil.
In this country, the opinion is very divided. Bush is really hated by a big third of the country's population. Most of those who supported invasion in Irak believe they would be attacked by Saddam otherwise, and feel mislead now. To finish I think it is also hard to judge the USA without taking in account their diversity.
They also are a country that claims all the time to have a free press. It is indeed lobby oriented. What I personaltely dislike is that it is un-p.c. to insults any minority on tv, say bad things about israel's policies, but it can become politically correct to go on TV and insult french people for free every once in a while. Of course my point of view is biased being French.
China bashing there is more frequent but more related to human rights. I'll just say the media are biased.
Concerning human rights, USA are very weak in Guantanamo - basiacally a concentration camp. At the same time they can give a fair trial to the abject Zacarias Moussaoui, that is pretty impressive. so they cand do the best or the worst, they just need the right politician (surely not Bush).
There are also a couple of things I like about the USA. Being in this country I can discuss (or yell, if I want) how evil they are and I know nothing will happen to me. People are tolerant, and authorities are also very tolerant in regard with political oposition, etc. (almost) everything is fine with the USA when you are on the US territory.

In the End, I think the idea is mostly to let the chinese forumers say what they think, so I'll let them the speech!

I'll have exams tomorrow,so see you,and I'll be back...in two days to :bash: and to :cheers:

大哥，我看你是党员吧，可别怪我给你扣这个帽子，人家有问题那是人家的事，而且这些问题已经公开到你也能看得见，这本身就能说明一些问题。我不赞同走西方的道路，不过中国现行的发展模式有问题，这一点不容否认。

中国今天的成就是利用社会主义的专制搞资本主义所换来的。稍微懂的历史、有良心的人都知道这一点。先是搞了列宁主义，把贫富差距几乎给拉平了，就剩下一些党员干部和红五类作社会精英，后来搞了大跃进和文革，白白牺牲了几千万人。如今摇身一变搞起市场经济来了，专制政权加上资本主义贪得无厌，这个经济不发展才怪，有没有民众的声音呢？有没有选择不走这条道路呢？百姓一再受欺骗，却没有发言权。

民主国家表面混乱，那是因为需要带着大家走。也就因为这样不能走得很快。而你这种自以为是的发展模式恐怕名不正，言不顺，事不成。等着瞧吧，后面有好看的。





you are ignorant in the first place. Pay attention to the fact that the current Dalai Lama was endorsed by the republic of China gov't and every Dalai lama was endorsed by China's central gov't historically.
I give you a homework: to find out whether french president is appointed by foreign gov't?

人家有贫民窟那是穷人的天堂，你以为中国没有贫民窟就是因为没有穷人？？我可去过孟买最大贫民窟，崭新的高楼大厦背后就是破旧不堪的贫民窟，不过人家没有掩饰啊，让穷人同样到城市谋生，不像我们让他在农村受死。不要做井底之蛙啦，走出去看看，不用太远，朝西走个300公里，什么都看见了



是啊，俄罗斯经济大破产不是不伦不类，印度有世界最大的贫民窟不是不伦不类？美国靠殖民、黑奴、发战争财不是不伦不类？
印度47%的儿童营养又是建立在谁的痛苦之上的？
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345697
你要这么在乎西方人怎么看，就去印度的贫民窟呆着吧，什么都没有但票是有的投。中国没你的事。

人家有贫民窟那是穷人的天堂，你以为中国没有贫民窟就是因为没有穷人？？我可去过孟买最大贫民窟，崭新的高楼大厦背后就是破旧不堪的贫民窟，不过人家没有掩饰啊，让穷人同样到城市谋生，不像我们让他在农村受死。不要做井底之蛙啦，走出去看看，不用太远，朝西走个300公里，什么都看见了

第一，不是党员，因为不信共产主义。也别叫我大哥，去认印度人做大哥吧。
第二，我在美国，不知道什么叫井底之蛙。好像扣帽子就是你的专长。
第三，中国有穷人又怎么了？中国的穷人远比印度的穷人好。印度人平均寿命不到60岁，中国人超过70岁。按联合国的报告，中国的儿童的营养条件的改进幅度是世界上最好的，而印度是最差的。这也是掩饰，对吧？？？
第四，说来说去，你就去没有掩饰的印度吧，去喝黄汤一样的自来水吧。老跑这里来干嘛？

哦，错了，不是井底之蛙，应该是爱国主义分子，爱国爱到有问题还是装看不到，老拿印度比较干吗，两国历史背景和文化传统有巨大差异，我再说一遍，印度经济改革起步较晚，增长速度却之差我们两个百分点，我认为更成功，因为他们没有付出中华民族所付出的沉重代价。

其实你还是坐井观天，去一趟印度看看吧，城市面貌确实不如中国，不过也没你所说得那样，印度中产阶级有3亿多，要是没有购买力老美和欧洲还会那么在意他？？印度穷人多那是事实，不过他没经过老毛式的扫荡。

你要么是把新华社的反面宣传信以为真，要么是带着有色眼镜看了太多关于印度的负面报道。要是这个国家那么不屑一顾，你老提他干吗？倒没见过你说中国比蒙古怎么怎么好。假如是后者，难道美国说中国的都不对，说印度的全对了吗。

咱说的是有理走遍天下，别在这里强词夺理，不懂装懂！



第一，不是党员，因为不信共产主义。也别叫我大哥，去认印度人做大哥吧。
第二，我在美国，不知道什么叫井底之蛙。好像扣帽子就是你的专长。
第三，中国有穷人又怎么了？中国的穷人远比印度的穷人好。印度人平均寿命不到60岁，中国人超过70岁。按联合国的报告，中国的儿童的营养条件的改进幅度是世界上最好的，而印度是最差的。这也是掩饰，对吧？？？
第四，说来说去，你就去没有掩饰的印度吧，去喝黄汤一样的自来水吧。老跑这里来干嘛？

其实你还是坐井观天，去一趟印度看看吧，城市面貌确实不如中国，不过也没你所说得那样，印度中产阶级有3亿多，要是没有购买力老美和欧洲还会那么在意他？？印度穷人多那是事实，不过他没经过老毛式的扫荡。

你要么是把新华社的反面宣传信以为真，要么是带着有色眼镜看了太多关于印度的负面报道。要是这个国家那么不屑一顾，你老提他干吗？倒没见过你说中国比蒙古怎么怎么好。假如是后者，难道美国说中国的都不对，说印度的全对了吗。

1. 说清楚，我说的哪个是新华社的反面宣传？
2. 中国与蒙古要比吗？
3. 关于印度的中产阶级，你倒是挺相信印度人的，呵呵。我刚来美国的时候，隔壁的印度人也是这么说的，于是我就问：“是不是印度的中产阶级都有车啊？”他就不吱声了。所以，你的确是挺会在井外观天的，呵呵。


咱说的是有理走遍天下，别在这里强词夺理，不懂装懂！
看不出你有任何道理。这个联合国的报告，是中国和世界比。你却装瞎子死活不理，一口咬定中国如何如何，这就是你的道理？
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345697

另外，我从来不反对民主。只是政治制度要和经济基础相适应，难道俄罗斯的教训还不够深刻吗？

中国有56个民族，遭到过毁灭性的袭击， 也有13点多亿人， 能够发展到现在是世界上的奇迹。印度虽然富人比重过多， 不过中国的改变也是在提倡民族企业和创业，也为农民取消了农业税， 我不反对民主，但是中国突然性的变民主，内战就会再次爆发

印度的中产阶级有3亿，知道怎么定义的？只要人均 GDP上1000美元就算中产阶级，要是这样，中国就有12亿中产阶级了。至于印度掩饰的问题，其实中国也没有掩饰，路上那么多要钱的，你去一些车站看看。就算朝西走300里，那里的农民也比印度强。
中国的经济发展怎么来的，搞大跃进和文革不过是学习苏联模式，只不过毛急于求成，苏联模式给搞砸了，这个也不算毛的创新，不过中国也没有形成苏联的模式。
至于现代的情况，就是资本主义原始积累的情况，当年欧美走这条路的时候，有没有征求民众的意见？经济是自然发展的，要那么多政府干预干什么，做一些基本保障就够了，路是自己走出来的，欧洲那种福利现在看起来实在是失败。
反正我不看好印度，印度是彻底的精英社会，两极分化厉害，和民国时代差不多，西方都说了，中国的教育是扫盲教育，印度的是精英学术教育，这两种谁更民主？西方还以此作为印度发展比中国好的证据，印度的不平等性远远超过中国。

你要么是把新华社的反面宣传信以为真，要么是带着有色眼镜看了太多关于印度的负面报道。要是这个国家那么不屑一顾，你老提他干吗？倒没见过你说中国比蒙古怎么怎么好。假如是后者，难道美国说中国的都不对，说印度的全对了吗。
印度的负面报道，我其实并没有看到，我所知道关于印度负面的消息全部都是来自各大论坛的那些旅游者和出差者，包括印度人上厕所不用纸，直接用水洗。印度人吃饭直接用手抓，不过这个手是右手，上厕所的是左手。新华社报道的外国都是很友好的，没有说外国如何差，一般都说外国人对中国人很友好，最典型的例子就是韩国。直到在论坛上看见一些去过韩国的才知道怎么样。现在大量提印度，不过是因为美国老是把中国和印度比。

　　印度独立之前，中产阶级实际上是不存在的。那个时候，只有居住在大城市里占人口1%的上流社会，以及生活在农村和城市贫民窟里的劳动阶层。20世纪60年代，印度的农村人口仍然占全国人口的80%以上，赤贫现象严重。但到了20世纪末，印度社会突然崛起一个庞大的中产阶级，其速度之快、人数之多令人瞠目。据印度“政策研究中心”估计，印度中产阶级已有3亿人。也就是说，在印度10亿人口中，有将近1／3的人跻身中产阶级行列。猛一听，这是一个非常吓人的数字。
　　那么，这个数字到底是怎么算出来的呢？2001年年底，权威的印度“国家应用经济研究理事会”发表了一份评估印度中产阶级的标准和数据。按该理事会的统计标准，年均税后收入在3.375万卢比到15万卢比(约合700—3000美元，目前美元对卢比的比价为1∶48.5 )的家庭为中产阶级家庭。按此计算，到2001年，印度有6000万户家庭已经成为中产阶级。按一家平均5口人计算，就可以得出印度目前中产阶级人数为3亿这个数字。
　　另外，按该理事会的统计，这3亿人又可分为3个等级：上等、中等和下等中产阶级。上等中产阶级约有4000万人，年均税后收入为10万—15万卢比(2000—3000美元 )；中等中产阶级约有1.5亿人，年均税后收入为6.75万—10万卢比(1350—2000美元 )；下等中产阶级估计有1.1亿人，年均税后收入为3.375万—6.75万卢比(700—1350美元 )。
　　目前，国际上公认的贫困线标准是每天1美元。如果按此计算，印度人所说的中产阶级中起码有1／3是刚刚脱贫的群体，而非不愁吃穿的富有阶层。可见，印度定义中产阶级的标准是相当低的。实际上，在印度的中产阶级中，只有不到10%的家庭买得起目前最流行的印日合资“玛鲁蒂”牌小汽车或日本的丰田摩托车；中等中产阶级的大多数只能买一部印度产轻便摩托车；而下等中产阶级中的多数人还得骑自行车上班。

你要么是把新华社的反面宣传信以为真，要么是带着有色眼镜看了太多关于印度的负面报道。

不用理这位印度阿三，我们中国没有印度那样富裕，中产阶级也没有印度那么多，六十年代,印度号称是苏美第三强国, 所以中国人戏称其为"阿三" ， :) 虽然印度有我们要学习之处，但我们不会向印度看齐。 虽然我很盲目，但是我很清楚我应该支持谁。
very true,
China is dictatorship, but not the western style of dictatorship,
China is democracy, but not the american style of democracy.

by the way, what's your definition of democracy, let's take usa for example, not to mention the slave trade and child labor during its early age of development, the black people n' latino constitute almost its entire population, did black n' colored people have been elected once as president or even being nominated as presidential candidate.() even worse, most of black were on low paying job, is this what you mean by democracy or your definition of democracy. I hope not. I know China today is still far from perfect. we still have alot place to improve, but it take times, we will not simply copy others, besides, china is still during its critical era, it's very clear that the only superpower in the world today has its intention to contain china and keep our territory aways from us. and bring war and destruction to those that wasn't be able to protect themself(iraq). we sure know how "colonism" works in the mind of "chinese in taiwan", if we didn't take any action, they will simply drift further apart from us. does that answer your question "helihui the 印度阿三".

这是关于印度经济的百度搜索
http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=gb2312&bs=%D0%C2%BB%AA%C9%E7+%D3%A1%B6%C8&sr=&z=&cl=3&f=8&wd=%D3%A1%B6%C8%BE%AD%BC%C3&ct=0

说是有色眼镜，国内对印度的报道哪里“有色”？反而是你认为国内的报道都是不实的，和反印度的。

不用理这位印度阿三，我们中国没有印度那样富裕，中产阶级也没有印度那么多，六十年代,印度号称是苏美第三强国, 所以中国人戏称其为"阿三"
关于阿三其实还有很多来历
“红头阿三”对如今年轻人来说可能是个陌生的名词，但对现今六、七十岁的老上海来说却是非常熟悉的。之所以称为“红头阿三”，原因大致有这几种说法：凡印籍巡捕皆头缠红巾（实际上，印捕充任交通警、巡逻警的用红巾缠头，任看守警为黄巾缠头）所以叫“红头”。关于“阿三”则有两种说法：一说印度人是亡国奴，在上海人眼中的地位低于西捕和华捕列第三位；还有一种说法是印度人说话有口头禅“I say”、“I say”，其谐音为“阿三”，红头加上阿三故称“红头阿三”。
印捕是上海处于殖民地时的产物，在我国是独一无二。1843年（清道光二十三年）8月上海被西方殖民者强迫开辟为通商口岸，外国冒险家纷至沓来，要求在上海购地建房。当时清政府上海道台宫慕久在英国领事巴富尔的威胁和欺骗下，于1845年11月29日以道台名义，用告示形式公布了洋人的《上海租地章程》。从此，英租界成了英国侵略者在上海的“国中之国”。
1849年（清道光二十八年），法国领事敏体尼援引英国殖民者的先例，上海道台麟桂屈服于殖民主义者的压力，于1849年4月6日划定法租界界址。
上海租界既然是“国中之国”，自然要有武装力量及其他镇压工具，这便是万国商团、舰队水兵与巡捕。万国商团是租界武装力量的主体，其主要职责是保卫租界，一般不负社会治安之责。舰队水兵是万国商团的后盾。巡捕，即警察。起先，巡捕一律由西方人担任，故称为西捕。当时法租界公董局就有明文规定：“巡捕房人员应全部由法国人或宣布服从法国领事馆，并从此归法国裁判权管辖的外国人组成。”英租界最多时有西捕160名。西捕薪水高，否则就找不到西捕，这样开支就大了。另外，西捕有种种局限，比如微服侦察，其相貌特征根本无法掩饰；又比如去公共场所打听，其语言障碍造成的困难也难以克服；再加上租界里有帮会组织，西捕由于种种原因很难深入进去，也物色不到合适的人选做耳目，破案效率不高，租界治安堪忧。总之，从1854年开设巡捕房起，起先西捕还能应付。后来刑案随人口激增而水涨船高，由清一色的西捕办案，弊端更为突出，于是从1870年后改为允许华人充任巡捕，称为华捕。由于这一改变收效明显，以致渐而主次倒置，即西捕大减、华捕大增。例如1883年英美公共租界有巡捕200名，华捕竟占170名之多。以后，华捕越雇越多，殖民者怕不易控制，自1884年开始从英殖民地“进口”印度籍巡捕，即“红头阿三”。殖民者从印度“出口”巡捕时，对人员精心挑选，必须是印度的锡克族人，个个身高马大，满脸虬须，令人望而生畏。但他们也有与西捕相似的短处，所以大多充当巡警、狱警与交通警。“红头阿三”来自英国殖民地，严格说来其身份比处在租界里的上海人还低，但他们是英国人的忠实“看家狗”。狗仗人势，整天警棍乱舞，让上海人吃足苦头，特别是那些摊贩与车夫，挨“红头阿三”的警棍与皮靴更是家常便饭。殖民者为了利用 “红头阿三”为其忠实卖命，发他们的薪金比华捕高一倍，还配给住房等，并在当时的戈登路巡捕房内（解放后为江宁路公安分局）建造了一座三层楼印度教堂。印捕的存在随着租界结束而取消。
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話說七、八十年前，上海還是個租界，所以老外非常多、尤其是英國人，更是佔了絕大多數！為了維護上海租界的治安，所以英國人找了很多來自印度的錫克教徒來當保安警察（當時的名詞叫做巡捕）。

這些印度佬的皮膚都很黑，加上宗教信仰之故，頭頂上都纏著紅巾。所以上海人一開始都叫這些印度警察為「紅頭黑炭」。

不過英國體系的公務人員（尤其是警察）長久以來都習慣被稱呼為SIR（詳見成龍的警察系列電影，不是都叫警察為阿SIR或是警SIR嗎？）。另外上海人一向習慣在單音節的單字前面添加一個「阿」字。所以上海人叫著叫著、就把阿Sir叫成了阿三，於是印度警察就被叫成了「紅頭阿三」了。

後來又過了幾個月，上海人發現並不是每一個印度人都是纏著紅巾的錫克教徒，印度還有很多不纏紅頭巾的其他宗教人民。所以上海人索性就把「紅頭阿三」改成了「印度阿三」，於是這個渾號就一直沿用至今、幾乎華人地區的每一個人都還是習慣叫印度人為「印度阿三」。

另外還有一種可信度頗高、已經被列入俚語辭典大百科的說法！就是當時上海租界的民眾經常要與這些印度警察溝通，不過中國人的英文不好、印度人的英文也是怪腔怪調，所以當時上海的「警民溝通」可說是雞同鴨講、非常地不順暢！

不過上海人居然從這種雞同鴨講式的溝通上，又找到了新的樂子。因為他們發現印度警察每回遇上了舌尖嘴利的上海民眾的時候，總是會面紅耳赤、吞吞吐吐，喜歡結結巴巴地反覆講著：「I Say.....I Say.....」。所以上海人就把印度警察的經典結巴名句：「I Say」、用上海話來發音，又變成了「阿三」。

曾经在上海生活过的人一定还记得，以前上海街头经常可以看到耍猴戏的。耍猴者划地为圈，手敲铜锣把过路行人吸引过来看，于是猴子在耍猴者的指令下作各种表演。在观看猴戏时，经常会有人大呼:“阿三！老鹰来了！”上海人都知道，这喊声是吓唬猴子的。当时来上海耍猴戏者大多来自山东、河南等地，并大多不会讲上海话;而猴子又大多购自云南、贵州一带，肯定听不懂上海话，再讲上海城市里也很少能见到老鹰，那么“阿三！老鹰来了”到底表达了何种意思呢？原来“阿三”就是“红头阿三”，因为印度巡捕的头是红的，猴子的屁股也是红的；“老鹰”不是天上飞的老鹰，而是“老英”——老牌英国人的谐音。“红头阿三”是租界的巡捕，他们趾高气扬，耀武扬威，处处欺侮中国人，而他们又是亡国奴，在英国人面前是奴才，所以上海人喊的“阿三！老鹰来了！”只是借观猴戏时发泄对印度巡捕的不满和反抗情绪而已。

此外还有对韩国人说的“高丽棒子”，和台湾人认为的棒球不同

在我国东北有好多朝鲜人和汉族人在一起生活工作.叫他们高丽可以,叫高丽棒子他会跟你急.因为这是个侮辱性的称呼.
在日本侵占我国东北时日本人从招募了好多朝鲜人到中国当警察帮助日本人镇压中国人.但是日本人对朝鲜人不信任所以这些朝鲜警察手里没有武器,还不如中国的伪警察了,伪警察还发一根警棍呢.无奈这些二鬼子就用朝鲜妇女洗衣服的洗衣棒当打人的武器.由于这些二鬼子比日本人还凶,所以老百姓背地叫他们高丽棒子.这是我师傅告诉我的一个传说.

你不说我还真不知道，不过到现在还是有人不明白 "落后就要被挨打"，伊拉克的今天就好比300年前满清统治下被瓜分的中国。 一个软弱无力个清政府, 到处碰壁挨打， 即使他讲再多的佛经和道理，也不会得到别人的同情， 中国现在所缺的不是人才，而是一种凝聚力，现在可能觉察不出，在动乱的时期，汉奸走狗就会比比别是。( 即使今天，那些外地搞宣传的，罚伦功的都会得到美帝的很好的赞助 ) 什么"没事 ( 美式 ) 民主"鬼屁道理，发展和防腐才是硬道理。 就是那个阿三所说的那些贪官，拿别人的血汗钱这一类的， 切实应该好好整治一下， 今天又不是没有法律

http://news.sina.com.cn/c/l/2006-05-11/11519831190.shtml

我倒挺喜欢某位老兄在网上贴的话：

阿三较实在，不要面子，阿Q较虚荣死要面子

别以为假话喊了一百遍就会变真话，中国发展不发展有我们说话的份儿吗，上面是暴君你只能喊冤叫屈，上面是战略家你就拍手叫好，横竖你都是任人支配的啦还扯什么？民主国家不同，他发展不好是百姓无能，没起到公民社会的作用，而中国呢，以前唉声叹气，说自己不如他人，现在口袋里有了点钱就来个盲目自傲。共产主义靠边站，中国人民向钱看！“共产党”的灌输真够成功啊。

中国走到如今是移用了共产主义打下的基础。那些高举XX同志的XX旗帜的，等你房子被拆掉，等你亲朋好友消失了，等你耕地被人抢了我再看你怎么说。

邱切尔说过：民主是最糟糕的社会制度，其他社会制度则例外
Democracy is the worst system, except all other alternatives. 其中奥义非贤者不可明也


你不说我还真不知道，不过到现在还是有人不明白 "落后就要被挨打"，伊拉克的今天就好比300年前满清统治下被瓜分的中国。 一个软弱无力个清政府, 到处碰壁挨打， 即使他讲再多的佛经和道理，也不会得到别人的同情， 中国现在所缺的不是人才，而是一种凝聚力，现在可能觉察不出，在动乱的时期，汉奸走狗就会比比别是。( 即使今天，那些外地搞宣传的，罚伦功的都会得到美帝的很好的赞助 ) 什么"没事 ( 美式 ) 民主"鬼屁道理，发展和防腐才是硬道理。 就是那个阿三所说的那些贪官，拿别人的血汗钱这一类的， 切实应该好好整治一下， 今天又不是没有法律

http://news.sina.com.cn/c/l/2006-05-11/11519831190.shtml

就是那个阿三所说的那些贪官，拿别人的血汗钱这一类的， 切实应该好好整治一下， 今天又不是没有法律
阿三确实实在 :D ， i thought i have answered your question already in my above post, if you have some issue of reading and complehension, you are free to pm me, instead of being a spamming jerk. 你知道阿Q是来讽刺谁的 :) ？我没有阿三那么实在，我饿了， 我要像阿三学习解决我的温饱问题去了，没有时间和阿三你费唇舌， 所以你也不必花时间查字典跟我说中文这么辛苦 :colgate:

When one runs out of points, he resorts to abuses and sneers. You only bring shame upon all Chinese. Stop talking politics, it just isn't your cup of tea.


阿三确实实在 :D ， i thought i have answered your question already in my above post, if you have some issue of reading and complehension, you are free to pm me, instead of being a spamming jerk. 你知道阿Q是来讽刺谁的 :) ？我没有阿三那么实在，我饿了， 我要像阿三学习解决我的温饱问题去了，没有时间和阿三费唇舌 :colgate:

By the way, I wonder how far you have gone in your English, judging by comp"l"ehension, "above post" and "issue of reading". You probably need a refresher course, or maybe you can use an editor. :bash:

阿三确实实在 :D ， i thought i have answered your question already in my above post, if you have some issue of reading and complehension, you are free to pm me, instead of being a spamming jerk. 你知道阿Q是来讽刺谁的 :) ？我没有阿三那么实在，我饿了， 我要像阿三学习解决我的温饱问题去了，没有时间和阿三你费唇舌， 所以你也不必花时间查字典跟我说中文这么辛苦 :colgate:

我倒挺喜欢某位老兄在网上贴的话：

阿三较实在，不要面子，阿Q较虚荣死要面子

别以为假话喊了一百遍就会变真话，中国发展不发展有我们说话的份儿吗，上面是暴君你只能喊冤叫屈，上面是战略家你就拍手叫好，横竖你都是任人支配的啦还扯什么？民主国家不同，他发展不好是百姓无能，没起到公民社会的作用，而中国呢，以前唉声叹气，说自己不如他人，现在口袋里有了点钱就来个盲目自傲。共产主义靠边站，中国人民向钱看！“共产
党”的灌输真够成功啊。

中国走到如今是移用了共产主义打下的基础。那些高举XX同志的XX旗帜的，等你房子被拆掉，等你亲朋好友消失了，等你耕地被人抢了我再看你怎么说。

邱切尔说过：民主是最糟糕的社会制度，其他社会制度则例外
Democracy is the worst system, except all other alternatives. 其中奥义非贤者不可明也
发展是一个自然过程，不是人力可以干涉的，哪里来的“说话份”之类的，上面说发展就能发展的？发展是一个社会各阶层配合的过程，没有人有主导权，是由自然决定的。比如广东那边工资太低，剥削厉害，就没有民工去了，这种发展就无法继续，你把政府的力量看的太大了。至于房子被拆掉，亲朋好友消失了，耕地被人抢之类的事情，欧美等国在这个发展阶段还不是有，而且就算中国真正“民主”了就不会出现了么，乱世风尘,帮派林立，黑社会之类的泛滥，只要是商人就会追逐利益，白道不行就黑道，拉美这种事情多了。

看看所罗门的暴乱，动不动就烧房子抢东西，拉美那些动不动就是动刀动枪，那些国家民主化了，有舆论监督了，俄罗斯还有那么多新纳粹，动不动就袭击外国人，它民主了怎么不保护外国人的权益？这种乱世的日子又好得到哪里去，只不过没有发泄的对象罢了。

阿三较实在，不要面子，阿Q较虚荣死要面子
阿三很实在么？又来阿Q,说实话，我不喜欢鲁迅，太过激进，说话咄咄逼人，而且对中国文化也搞得过度，甚至要以拼音文字代替汉字等，而且鲁迅只是批判，搞得中国现在的“杂文家”辈出，语言尖酸刻薄，还以现代鲁迅自居，建国后把鲁迅捧得过高，文革中也多次用来发动大家写大字报。
又来所谓的“劣根性”之类的，我觉得自己衣服漂亮，说出来，难道我就必须说我还有内衣很旧之类的，否则就是不全面，就是以偏概全，就是阿Q.

民主国家不同，他发展不好是百姓无能，没起到公民社会的作用，


其实你这句也不无道理，
but do you realize how people get elected in those so called democratic country, the president n' official are often those who can get the most news coverage and those who could afford the most big headline. 等等，美国总统身边有几个亿万富恩。

and i have answer your question very well in my previous post

the black people n' latino constitute almost its entire population in "us of a", did black n' colored people have been elected once as president or even being nominated as presidential candidate. even worse, most of black were on low paying job, is this what you mean by democracy or your definition of democracy(人民当家作主）. I hope not.

很显然， 这些西方的民主是少数白人用来得以统治大众的最好借口。不仅仅这样，拉美的经济也被美食民主搞得一踏糊涂，我看伊拉克可能也要步后尘， 我知道你的本意是好的，不过不能想的太过肤浅， 正好你帮我验证了， 最可怕的不是什么超级武器，而是愚蠢，天安门事件是个残酷的教训。

发展是一个自然过程，不是人力可以干涉的，

不要太在意阿三，发展是一个自然过程，没错，但是不要忽视一个战略家在中间所起的作用，人力不仅可以干涉，而且还可以起到支配地位，但要取决于他所在的位置，就会发挥到不同程度的作用， 这些例子比比皆是，阿斗，亮，邓， 德国的铁写政策的策划者(和现在很相似 ), 当亮还是一介村夫的时候，他再聪明，也起不了一点作用，

不要太在意阿三，发展是一个自然过程，没错，但是不要忽视一个战略家在中间所起的作用，人力不仅可以干涉，而且还可以起到支配地位，但要取决于他所在的位置，就会发挥到不同程度的作用， 这些例子比比皆是，阿斗，亮，邓， 德国的铁写政策的策划者(和现在很相似 )
这个主要是指政府扶持，比如优惠政策，资金支持等，但是作用力也是有限的。当然，像扁这样直接阻止台湾到大陆的还是很大影响。
德国俾斯麦的铁血政策还是和现在有很大区别的，铁血就是依靠战争强行统一德国，发展经济，所以普鲁士不断对外战争，统一德意志之后又对法国作战，占领阿尔萨斯和洛林，记得以前中学学过都德的《最后一课》就是讲这个的。
战争可以算作是政府对经济发展最强有力的影响了，军工发展，希特勒当年也作过类似的事情，但是现在不可能。

其实我对这段历史已经很模糊了，但核心 ( 想统一必先自强 ) 还是差不多，那个什么麦在对发展德国的经济肯定是起到举足轻重作用，

Guys guys, i think the real problem really just come downs to
democracy or dictator
captalism or socialism/communism

personally i think its best to have a balance of the two in either case.

Guys guys, i think the real problem really just come downs to
democracy or dictator
captalism or socialism/communism

personally i think its best to have a balance of the two in either case.

This is what many intellectuals realize in the US. Currently, there is too much capitalism.

As an American (and a proud one, regardless of my country's current political missteps and idiotic leadership) I am personally enthralled and mesmerized by China, it's people and it's culture. I think the Chinese have come a long way since 1948-1949 and quite honestly the sky is the limit in terms of what can be accomplished. I am always fascinated by every new aspect that I learn about Chinese culture and and in awe in the thousands of years of history of the country and it's people. That is where I think the biggest difference lies between the U.S. and China: age. The United States is still a relatively young country, with a national culture that is still trying to coalesce and find itself, whereas the culture of China, albeit coming from so many different areas and backgrounds, is more established as a solid, and seemingly unified national culture (does that make sense?)
Anyway, I guess my point is that politicians come and go, political trends, bickering come and go, but civility and culture and new ideas never go out of fashion and I think Americans and Chinese alike can find many similarities between their differences.

陳勁松﹕印度迎頭趕上﹐中國優勢漸失



多年來﹐對中國和印度----這兩個世界上人口最多的國家﹐進行對照和比較﹐一直是一個熱門話題。最近﹐這一話題再度升溫。(chinesenewsnet.com)

德國《法蘭克福匯報》刊文論述﹐有八大根據﹐決定印度必將趕超中國。諸如﹕印度私營企業規模比中國大﹔印度銀行壞賬率比中國低﹔印度教育水平高于中國﹔印度科技發展優于中國﹔印度人口年輕﹐而中國人口老化﹔等等。(chinesenewsnet.com)

最具國際權威的美國科爾尼管理諮詢公司﹐最新公布《2006年全球零售發展指數》報告﹐披露﹕在全球零售市場上﹐印度連續兩年躋身最受歡迎的榜首﹐成為對零售業投資者最具吸引力的國家。同一指標﹐中國僅排名第五﹐與去年相比﹐還下降了一位。(chinesenewsnet.com)

印度之所以連續兩年名列第一﹐是因為﹐印度投資回報率高。盡管印度每年吸收的外資僅為中國吸收外資的十分之一﹐但印度的資本使用效率大大高于中國﹐使投資人能夠獲得更多回報。除此之外﹐在政府改革力度﹑政治穩定程度等方面﹐印度也優于中國。這些﹐都使印度獲得國際好評。(chinesenewsnet.com)

目前﹐印度擁有3500億美元的零售市場﹐預計今年還將勁增13%。考慮到印度經濟改革起步于1992年﹐比中國整整晚了14年﹐能在短期內崛起﹐發人深思。(chinesenewsnet.com)

作為“全球最大的市場”﹐也是最大的零售業市場﹐中國排名下跌﹐引人注目。據分析﹐中國吸引力下降﹐至少有三個原因﹕其一﹐中國以政府指令﹐將吸收的多數外資集中于經濟特區或政府項目﹐限制了外商投資的自主性﹔其二﹐中國投資管理缺乏透明度﹐增加外商疑慮﹔其三﹐中國銀行壞賬高達40%以上﹐外商擔心中國隨時可能爆發金融危機。(chinesenewsnet.com)

人們都說﹐股票市場﹐是一個國家宏觀經濟的晴雨表。對比中國和印度的股市﹐可以測量出兩國經濟的活力與健康程度。在印度﹐以孟買30種股票為標杆的指數﹐屢創新高﹐兩年半裡﹐就上漲了兩倍﹔在中國﹐滬深股市連跌四年﹐股民叫苦連天﹐怨聲載道。(chinesenewsnet.com)

印度股市﹐早已成為市場經濟的有機組成部分﹐法規健全﹐運作透明﹔中國股市卻至今深陷官商勾結﹑人為操控﹑黑幕交易的泥潭。中印股市差距﹐折射的﹐恰恰是兩國政治經濟制度的懸殊差別。換言之﹐印度後來居上﹐發揮和體現的﹐是其制度經濟效益。(chinesenewsnet.com)

面對印度上升﹑中國下降的發展趨勢﹐早已在中國擁有廣大市場的美國最大零售商沃爾瑪宣布﹕將在印度開設“市場研究辦公室”﹐隨時准備進入印度。該公司行政總裁聲稱﹐進軍印度﹐是“一個巨大的增長機會。”(chinesenewsnet.com)

值得注意的是﹐在零售業吸引力方面﹐除了排名第一的印度﹐排名第二和第三的﹐分別是俄羅斯和越南。這兩國﹐也都是中國的鄰國﹐經濟改革也都比中國起步晚﹐如今﹐都構成中國的強勁競爭對手。世界首富﹑美國微軟集團董事長比爾﹒蓋茨日前訪問越南﹐為這個國家的經濟和政治改革活力所震撼﹐他斷言﹕十年內﹐越南將創造“亞洲奇跡”。在做出這番大膽預測之前﹐比爾﹒蓋茨剛剛在美國家中接待過中共領導人胡錦濤。(chinesenewsnet.com)

中共當局曾經自我吹噓﹐中國經濟是如何的“一枝獨秀”。但種種跡象顯示﹐在這場曠日持久的亞洲經濟拔河賽中﹐周邊國家正迎頭趕上﹐中國經濟優勢逐漸喪失。(chinesenewsnet.com)

原載《自由亞洲電臺》

何必贴自由亚洲电台的文章，显得这才“客观”么？中国的这种文章铺天盖地。
只要在百度里面加入“印度中国比较”就会看见一堆，西方特别喜欢，这种比较浪潮已经好几年了，从03年印度第四季度经济增长率达到10.4%开始，印度近几年的经济增长率大概在6%到8%之间，比起原来5.7% 的水平高很多.

http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=gb2312&bs=03+%CB%C4%BC%BE%B6%C8+%D3%A1%B6%C8&sr=&z=&cl=3&f=8&wd=%D3%A1%B6%C8+%D6%D0%B9%FA+%B1%C8%BD%CF&ct=0

:)

helihui

The United States is the only aim China want to exceed. I have ever toured there for several weeks. It is amazing that the states is below what I imagined quite much.
But it is really a system China can learn much and create one better than.

The United States is the only aim China want to exceed. I have ever toured there for several weeks. It is amazing that the states is below what I imagined quite much.
But it is really a system China can learn much and create one better than.
How look will it take to exceed the U.S.?

I like the American people disliking the American government

美国是当今世界最牛B的国家，经济军事文化都很优秀，不过有点自大，喜欢欺负小国，喜欢干涉别人
总想充当“国际警察”，明白吗？International Policeman.
美国人到是蛮可爱的，最喜欢spyderman了

the relationship with China and the States is complicated, i say competition is more than cooperation. The States wants to screw China, and we will let you screw yourself in Iraq. But that's all your decisions.
ps: I hate Falun Gong, once I was in my uni, there were som flg ppl around there, they gave me som of their garbage, n i said: I hate you ppl as a whole, back off! We really should sent u 2 reeducation camp 2 teach u som sence!

plus, don compare we chinese with indians, we are 2 different, n americans with their govt sponsored radio always hav those grabage abt india and china comparisons crap.

seriously, i want china 2 bcom a Bismarckian Prussian like state, not like india, too many different opinions, non-stop argueing. We don like democracy! WE want efficiency, loyalty, and NO to corruption which is still a dream!

n don bliev those "quit da commie party" thing, everyone wants 2 join, especially youth, make it easier 4 them 2 get jobs!

one of my friends joined 2 Party in high school coz she was the top ten in our school as well as an active student prefect.

ps: we don bliev in communism! its da money we can get that concerns us.

geez.. the communist party is totally different from b4. good stuff n bad stuff, but new.

also, i don bliev ppl hav da rite 2 choose their future, wen it'll harm china's nation security n interest, if amnisty international sympathisers wana teach me lessons, just get lost. theyv argued wit me b4, they accuse israel for b ing a bully agaist helpless palestinians, i told them that's REALPOLITIK, get real man, u r dreaming. (i respect israel, n i want 2 learn hebrew)

so tibetan sympathisers, falun crap sympathisers, don apply those western stuff on china, only western technology applies, n we want to learn humbly.

but i don hate americans, just im don like their values.

my dads boss is an american from alaska.

hes a cool man, i like him, besides, he has 2 hot daughters, but they r 10 yrs older than me....hehe..... :eek2:

so i wont say i hate yanks stuff like dat. i only hate amnisty inter sympathisers.

The United States is a dump filled with poor people. We raped them in pearl harbor.

who askt u to speak here eh??? mr nip, get out! :bash:
同胞们，把这个日本猪给我踢出去！ :runaway:

thats y i always think americans should drop more nukes on japs

^^ Are you even Chinese?

你他妈的废屁呀！
大阪王八蛋！
get lost japs!

你他妈的废屁呀！
大阪王八蛋！
get lost japs!
Why don't you stop picking on japanese and pick on American(Chicagourbanlife)??? No wonder we did stuff in world war 2.

thats y i always think americans should drop more nukes on japs
And that is why we killed in Najing massacre.

If you were to choose between nanjing Massacre and Atomic bombs in nagasaki and Hiroshima, which would be more justified?

nanjing massacre was more injustified because it was the random killing of defenseless civilians, the A-boom was the key to end the war

don be pragmatic, just kick dat jap in da guts

don be pragmatic, just kick dat jap in da guts

:banned:

don be pragmatic, just kick dat jap in da guts

Ur country fucked with mine. And remember the U.S. fucked with you in korea? Why don't u bash the thread starter?

大阪先生时日无多，同志们不要跟他帖子骂脏话，否则一并提交

:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

wel we should make sure that theres no japs in our forum, it should damn clear, we need to keep that race out of our place. if they don com to us im not evn bothered 2 look at japs.