Which city is it? and Why is it the railroad capital(freight & commuter rail)
:cheers: :)

As you can see, freight for american just as important as the commuter to japanese. Americans are big consumers and what better, cheaper and safer way to bring tons and tons of comsumer products near you than utilizing our freight rail network. For us the American, we think railroad isn't just merely making up by commuting rails, the freight rail part of integral just as important if not vital for our economy and infrastrctures.
Once again, you can show us how congestive, intensive, much passengers handle, how much faster the commuter technology is right....and then trying to omit the freight part of railroad.
At the end of day, the only real "Railroad capital of the world" is the city/cities that has fully utilized BOTH(commuter & freight rails) day in and day out.

All of info for each candidates that I have seem so far. Sum it up:
Chicago-commuter & freight(Freight being the complete dominant while commuter rail isn't far behind)

Paris-commuter & freight(Thanks for the google satillite links, I think that it also has huge emphasis on both area as well)

Tokyo-commuter(I would think that it is easily the "commuter" capital of the world)

London-commuter(I seem some of its commuter map and it also has complex commuter system)

What I am still waiting for are the freight rails related info, pics and satellite shots that can prove the candidates aren't just commuter oriented but also has good fair amount of freight oriented network. Hopeful, we can all come to a final educated result! :) :cheers:

For example:
http://www.richardsnotes.org/pictures/chicago1.jpg
I think Chicago is a good candidate:
Chicago's freight rail network:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6207/10995463771b0d3b67ao0gw.jpg
http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/photos/places/Illinois/chicago/2002/air/dscf0036.jpg
http://www.greenappleslingshot.com/gallery/albums/chicago/truckyard.sized.jpg
http://www.richardsnotes.org/pictures/trainyard.jpg

Some of the chicago's largest freight railroad yards from satellites:
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.758508,-87.761021&spn=0.06377,0.11673
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.899051,-87.908735&spn=0.015908,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.945447,-87.89968&spn=0.015896,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.644408,-87.651114&spn=0.015971,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/state_info/illinois/il.gif
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/Memphis/Appendix%20Materials/Lambert/Slide15.JPG
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/boundforglory/images/bg0062.jpg
http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/clearovrpss.jpg

Chicago's commuter rail network:

Metra commuter rail yards:
http://www.subwaynut.com/chicago/photos/metra7.jpg
http://www.subwaynut.com/chicago/photos/metra9.jpg

Amtrak commuter rail yards:
http://www.milord.com/rl1_smpl.jpg
http://www.damchicago.com/e-cards/chicago-skyline-train.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/www/transit/Chicago_L.gif
http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif

Scroll---------------------->also look at how many huge railroad yards for freights, easy to spot, all over the city! :runaway:
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_2_med.jpg
http://www.clanmacleodusa.org/metra-system-map04-2003.gif
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_Labels2_med.gif

http://www.wilbursmith.com/HSRQuals/hsr2.gif
http://www.20thcentury.org/images/SkyboxVu2.JPG

For some people who think chicago commuter rail is only within the city like the CTA and L....think again, it commuter rail network isn't as bad as other top commuter rail cities! :)
As matter of fact, it is now extending furthur away to connect the distant suburban travlers into chicago by rail!
http://www.fta.dot.gov/images/Chicago2.gif


Some Chicago commuter rail:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2600sMetra.jpg
Our very own "L"(Loop)
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/train.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2612-2983.jpg

CTA(Metro)
http://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1999map-lowres.jpg
http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif
http://wunderhund.com/Gallery/Chicago2004/Images/chiFromTrain.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2740b.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2806.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2658.jpg

Chicago Metra(Metro and suburub):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Metra-System.png
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00007JO6R.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.coloradorailcar.com/images/Chicago-Metra.jpg
http://www.entenginc.com/whatwedo/images/chmet/metra1.jpg
http://www.railroadpix.com/images/passenger/pas_img_12/metra138_021588_ohiost.JPG
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/Metra.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2037b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2043b_sm.jpg
http://www.absolutestockphoto.com/albums/userpics/10020/normal_Absolute_20_820.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/2733_metra_101603_chicago.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/1265_metra202_110300_chicago_bnsfline.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/2169_metra138_021588_ohiost.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/3013_metra142_031403_18th.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4000_metra_0390_blueisland.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4021_metra197187_050792_berwyn.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4041_metra179_112999_21st.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/34/67190934_b7b7368118_m.jpg
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/Chicago04/METX102.jpg


Chicago Amtrak(Regional):
http://www.azrail.org/amtrak90/f20ill2.gif
http://www.railventures.com/images/railmap.gif
http://www.wcnet.org/~hern/amtrakmap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Amtrak-map.png
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/MetraEngine.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2093b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2027b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2072b_sm.jpg

chicago subway!
http://www.subwaynavigator.com/subway_site/img/subway_maps/couleur/chicago.gif
http://osamuabe.ld.infoseek.co.jp/subway/mappage/chicago.gif

:runaway:

Tokyo is by far the world's rail capital. The rail system there drives me bananas with envy.

Tokyo is one of them but not THE rail capital. There are other like New York or London. Paris as well.

Tokyo is one of them but not THE rail capital. There are other like New York or London. Paris as well.
Tokyo has vastly more people, and therefore passengers. It's nuts. Trust me.

tokyo is the mecca for railfans ;), personally i find london more interesting

Tokyo

Definitely Tokyo. Followed by London. Perhaps followed by New York but only because of size, as IMO Paris has a better quality.

1) Tokyo
2) London
3) New York
4) Paris

European cities tend to have a larger assortment of rail infrastructure. New York has a large subway network, but its regional rail network takes up far less space compared to London or Paris.

Tokyo has more stations more lines and traffic than Paris but Tokyo has only national and suburban and urban traffic.

Paris has only 6 big railway stations with International , national and suburban traffic

London railways stations have international traffic but less than Paris.

London
Frankfurt
Tokyo

Amsterdam, of course! ;)

Depends what you mean. Do you include freight ? if you do then Chicago must be up for consideration. Moscow must also be in the running as it is the centre of a large passenger and freight network as is Beijing, Shanghai and Delhi.

European cities tend to have a larger assortment of rail infrastructure. New York has a large subway network, but its regional rail network takes up far less space compared to London or Paris.
????????

Our commuter rail network is composed of a couple dozzen lines that spread out as far as 150 km from Manhattan!

So, if you are talking about extension by "far less space" you are wrong!

What about Switzerland?

^^

Zürich is the train capital of Switserland. It's not the quantity but the quality that makes it even one of the rail capitals of the world. It has lots of international connections, it's the hart of the Swiss IC network, has a good urban/suburban railsystem (S-Bahn) and an excellent tramwaysystem. All with the perfect Swiss precision.

If you want quality and not so much quantity then Zürich is the railway capital of the world!

In terms of lines,numbers,types of trains and the sheer coverage of it all then there is no other city.

TOKYO

Ive lived in London,been to New York once,Paris 4 times and have been to other worthy rail cities like Berlin,Madrid,Barcelona, and other cities of similar size all over North America,Europe,Oceana and Aisa.

They all seem insignificant compared to Tokyo's huge JR system,its subways and the countless private rail companies running the suburban trains,monorails,light rails,other subwaysMonorails and other wonderful forms of rail travel

Canada, U.S. and Mexico have pretty interesting looking freight trains.

I would gess Tokyo followed by London

????????

Our commuter rail network is composed of a couple dozzen lines that spread out as far as 150 km from Manhattan!

So, if you are talking about extension by "far less space" you are wrong!
Rail travel is far more prevalent in Europe than in North America. You can actually travel on Network Rail from Scotland all the way into London, and numerous companies run commuter routes into London's railway stations that share tracks with these regional routes. Their far wider coverage is quite evident when viewing their network maps alone.

London Network Rail : http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf

Rail travel is far more prevalent in Europe than in North America. You can actually travel on Network Rail from Scotland all the way into London, and numerous companies run commuter routes into London's railway stations that share tracks with these regional routes. Their far wider coverage is quite evident when viewing their network maps alone.
You don't think I know that Europe has better rail coverage than North America as a whole? :crazy:

But this thread is more about railroad capital CITIES, not COUNTRIES.

And you can take the train from Maine all the way to Florida, a whopping 2000 km+ so :tongue:

:crazy2:

You don't think I know that Europe has better rail coverage than North America as a whole? :crazy:

But this thread is more about railroad CAPITALS, not COUNTRIES.

And you can take the train from Main all the way to Florida, a whopping 2000 km+

:crazy2:
London is a far bigger railroad junction than New York due to the significant number of interegional rail lines terminating in one of London's many railway stations even though both cities have a similar size subway system. This is heavily influenced by the national railroad strategy.

London is a far bigger railroad junction than New York due to the significant number of interegional rail lines terminating in one of London's many railway stations even though both cities have a similar size subway system. This is heavily influenced by the national railroad strategy.
And I quote.

Definitely Tokyo. Followed by London. Perhaps followed by New York but only because of size, as IMO Paris has a better quality.

1) Tokyo
2) London
3) New York
4) Paris

:dunno:

But this thread is more about railroad CAPITALS, not COUNTRIES.

And you can take the train from Main all the way to Florida, a whopping 2000 km+

:crazy2:
Railroad capitals evolve from a mix of commuter and regional rail, hence countries with good rail coverage will obviously have well-connected cities, so it makes good sense to analyze rail strategies at a national level and then drill down to the city level. Patronage statistics show just that :

New York - MTA

Long Island Rail Road
594 miles serving an average of 287,930 passengers / weekday

Metro North
775 miles serving an average of 251,836 passengers / weekday

New York City Transit
660 miles of track and 244 bus routes serving an average of 7 million passengers / day

London Travel Report 2005
Statistics for 2004
27.1 million daily journeys
Rail - 1.9 million
Underground - 2.7 million
Public transport accounted for 36% of journeys - 10.6 million journeys / day

National rail passenger trips in London
2003/4
All trips : 502 million
Within London : 244 million
To/from London : 258 million

Route Length
Rail within Greater London - 788km
London Underground - 408km
DLR - 29km

Sure, you can take a train from Florida to New York, but that is not popular. Meanwhile, Scotland to London is not an unusual long-distance route, as are London-Paris and London-Brussels.

I feel like I am arguing with a wall.

Why do you think I put London ahead of New York?!

:crazy:

But this thread is more about railroad capital CITIES, not COUNTRIES.
:crazy:You brought up the point that this is about railroad capital cities, not countries. But to properly analyze a city's rail infrastructure, it's inevitable to look at it from a national level as well. Hence well-connected countries will have a much higher chance of having a well-connected city.

You brought up the point that this is about railroad capital cities, not countries. But to properly analyze a city's rail infrastructure, it's inevitable to look at it from a national level as well. Hence well-connected countries will have a much higher chance of having a well-connected city.
You brought up that Europe has in general a better rail infrastructure than the North America.

This PLAINLY obvious fact is not relevant.

You bring up the relevant fact of all the services that feed into London and thus I quote myself AGAIN:

I feel like I am arguing with a wall.

Why do you think I put London ahead of New York?!

:crazy:

London or Paris.

Railroads will always be synonymous with Chicago.

Railroads will always be synonymous with Chicago.
Maybe in the Midwest.

Certainly not to the rest of the country, and certainly not in the global scale.

It is still chumpchange compared to the networks of cities like London, Tokyo, or New York.

Being a hub does not make you the best. Important, yes, best, :nono:

Maybe in the Midwest.

Certainly not to the rest of the country, and certainly not in the global scale.

It is still chumpchange compared to the networks of cities like London, Tokyo, or New York.

Being a hub does not make you the best. Important, yes, best, :nono:

I totally agree, entho, chicago completely dominant in the freight area, just look at how many monsterous railroad yards that are sprawning around its industrial and aiports surroundings(just google satellite chicago and you would easily find 5 of them since they are so huge).
Where in the world can you find that many huge railroad yards in a city?
I would say chicago is easily the worlds freight/industrial/livestock railroad capital!
However, to be the complete railroad capital of the world, it also has to have the dominant in the passenger area as well and this is where chicago fall short! So I would think that it is certainly a good race between Tokyo and London. But overall, we have to see which city is the true capital of the railroad! :) :cheers:

Here is the chicago satellite by google.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=chicago&ll=41.839897,-87.787628&spn=0.127378,0.326843&t=k&om=0
(You can move around the map by dragging it around for more railroad yards around chicago)

Even this far up and away, you still can clearly find some of the largest railroad yards that are near the airports and next to industrial parks. About 5 railroad yards even visible in this distance, just to give you and idea the size of these yards and what the potential railroad capital of the world is! However, I really can't find even one huge railroad yard that are visible from satellite for Tokyo and London, so I really doubt that they can be call the railroad capital when the presence of "railroad" isn't dominent in their cityscape. Prove me wrong with other cities that also actually has proof from the satellite! :)

chicago for freight, but overall it has to be Tokyo

chicago for freight, but overall it has to be Tokyo

^^^
Well, but I doubt that Tokyo even has freight rail presence today?

It depends what you mean by capital. If you look at things from a historic perspective there probably isn't a city in the world that owes as much to railroads as Chicago does. So even though there are other cities today with more extensive commuter or freight lines or whatever, to many people Chicago is the ultimate example of a city that railroads built.

It depends what you mean by capital. If you look at things from a historic perspective there probably isn't a city in the world that owes as much to railroads as Chicago does. So even though there are other cities today with more extensive commuter or freight lines or whatever, to many people Chicago is the ultimate example of a city that railroads built.

Yea, I know, but I think that there is gotta have one city that has equally balanced between the freight and commuting rail and yet having them strongly showing in its cityscape!... :cheers:

If it would have been the commuter rail capital of the world, then Tokyo, London and NYC are good candidates! :)
But the "railroad" capital is another story tho!

If it weren't for railroads, no one on this forum would be talking about Chicago right now. Actually, this forum might not even exist... :runaway:

;)

^^^
Well, but I doubt that Tokyo even has freight rail presence today?

It does.

--

As for ridership, Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto ranks #2 worldwide.

It does.

--

As for ridership, Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto ranks #2 worldwide.

Well, I know that there still some but any large and identifiable freight railroad yards that I can check out from google satellite? or tell me where I can find them in Tokyo, would be much appreciate! :)

This one could possibily the largest railroad yard in chicago.... :runaway:
It is shocking to see hundred of freight trains being process at one time!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=chicago&t=k&om=0&ll=41.766735,-87.753553&spn=0.01594,0.040855

Tokyo, no doubt!!
:yes:

Here is largest identifiable yard in Omaha,NE
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=omaha,+NE&ll=41.245644,-95.877728&spn=0.016069,0.040855&t=k&om=1

Here is world's largest railroad yard in the world, North Platte, NE
It looks about the same size and capabilties as the largest in Chicago! :cheers:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=North+Platte,+NE&ll=41.146539,-100.830374&spn=0.032187,0.081711&t=k&om=1

Here is the one possibily the largest in Tokyo!
However, these yards size and capabilities are way, way lighter and smaller than any ones in Chicago, not to mention, you can easily find 5-10 large railroad yards without a sweat in Chicago, for Tokyo, it is tuf to find them!
Notice that all of these railroad yard, barely anyone of them are fill and with freight trains? :)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo&ll=35.591156,139.758453&spn=0.017379,0.040855&t=k&om=1

or this one

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo&ll=35.634035,139.740772&spn=0.01737,0.040855&t=k&om=1

or this one
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo&ll=35.528227,139.744184&spn=0.008697,0.020428&t=k&om=1

or this one
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo&ll=35.742777,139.756479&spn=0.004337,0.010214&t=k&om=1

and your point is? Having larger yards doesnt make it a railroad capital. Tokyo beats Chicago here by a long shot, as do many other cities

and your point is? Having larger yards doesnt make it a railroad capital. Tokyo beats Chicago here by a long shot, as do many other cities

Why not? That is my point!
What makes you think that Tokyo beat Chicago by long shot if you can barely see any freight rails? That alone don't tell me anything about the capital of railroad. We aren't looking for commuter rail capital! So why don't you explain and show some proof! :) BTW, Chicago beat Tokyo in a long shot particular in freight! Its commuter isn't far behind as well... :cheers:

Chicago for overall rail capital.

There are only a few small freight yards in Tokyo now-
Shin Kawasaki- http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo,+japan&t=k&om=1&ll=35.55227,139.670863&spn=0.003675,0.010815

There is a 10 kilometer rail tunnel under most of Kawasaki City (next to Tokyo) used for freight only.

Shiodome, the former freight yard near central Tokyo, was sold to private developers and is now a prime real estate spot next to Ginza. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3030.html

So yeah, freight is pretty much dead in Tokyo. All of the yards are well outside the city, like in Chiba, and even these aren't huge.

Marshaling yard Maschen near Hamburg. It is Europe's biggest marshaling yard and owes it's existence to Hamburg's huge port.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Hamburg&ll=53.404108,10.065451&spn=0.024152,0.086517&t=k&om=1

However, Hamburg is far away from being the railroad capital, even in Germany. And according to Wikipedia Chicago is the world's biggest railroad junction.

There are only a few small freight yards in Tokyo now-
Shin Kawasaki- http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo,+japan&t=k&om=1&ll=35.55227,139.670863&spn=0.003675,0.010815

There is a 10 kilometer rail tunnel under most of Kawasaki City (next to Tokyo) used for freight only.

Shiodome, the former freight yard near central Tokyo, was sold to private developers and is now a prime real estate spot next to Ginza. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3030.html

So yeah, freight is pretty much dead in Tokyo. All of the yards are well outside the city, like in Chiba, and even these aren't huge.


Thanks for sharing on Tokyo! :) :cheers:

Marshaling yard Maschen near Hamburg. It is Europe's biggest marshaling yard and owes it's existence to Hamburg's huge port.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Hamburg&ll=53.404108,10.065451&spn=0.024152,0.086517&t=k&om=1

However, Hamburg is far away from being the railroad capital, even in Germany. And according to Wikipedia Chicago is the world's biggest railroad junction.

Wow :runaway:
That is very large particular for the city its size, sort of like the one in Nebraska! Thanks for sharing.... :cheers:

Tokyo's unarguably the largest passenger rail hub of any kind in the world, plain and simple. The next two would be Osaka and London, followed by New York, Paris, and a number of Asian cities.

If we're talking freight though (the thread title does say railroad and fails to differentiate between passenger and freight), Chicago would probably be the top one in the world.

Japan's freight rail network isn't very big at all. Most shipping from different cities within the country is done by road or by ship, since almost all major Japanese cities are port cities on the same Pacific coast.

the biggest rail network in the world is the Indian Railway with Bombay having one of the biggest and largest amount of passengers. But nothing is up to date there.
So I choose Tokyo!!! I have been there so many times. Rail is everywhere. Monorail, subway, Bullet train, Passenger train, elevated rail. All rail Japan!!!

Tokyo's unarguably the largest passenger rail hub of any kind in the world, plain and simple. The next two would be Osaka and London, followed by New York, Paris, and a number of Asian cities.

If we're talking freight though (the thread title does say railroad and fails to differentiate between passenger and freight), Chicago would probably be the top one in the world.

Japan's freight rail network isn't very big at all. Most shipping from different cities within the country is done by road or by ship, since almost all major Japanese cities are port cities on the same Pacific coast.

:) Thanks for your indication, and yes, that was my point, as Chicago is being the Freight capital and Tokyo being the commuter capital while both of them fail to also dominent in their other part, however, I would say chicago also has impressive commuter rail as well! So what I am looking for is ONE city that is capitalizing on both freight and commuter rail! That being say, I would consider that this would be the "Railroad" capital of the world, do you not agree? Lets continue to find... :cheers:

Why not? That is my point!
What makes you think that Tokyo beat Chicago by long shot if you can barely see any freight rails? That alone don't tell me anything about the capital of railroad. We aren't looking for commuter rail capital! So why don't you explain and show some proof! :) BTW, Chicago beat Tokyo in a long shot particular in freight! Its commuter isn't far behind as well... :cheers:
:crazy:

You are honestly going to compare Chicago with its carnival like "loop" around downtown with the megalopolis of Tokyo?

And commuter rail not far behind Tokyo? WTF?

I am from a city with a metropolitan area over TWICE your size and you don't see me making such a baseless argument!

:rofl:

Chicago for overall rail capital.

I vote Omaha.

:rofl:

Moscow's number one for ridership, isn't it?

Moscow's number one for ridership, isn't it?
I would imagine for METROS it is up there, but a metrosystem is but one part of railroad infrastructure.

:crazy:

You are honestly going to compare Chicago with its carnival like "loop" around downtown with the megalopolis of Tokyo?

And commuter rail not far behind Tokyo? WTF?

I am from a city with a metropolitan area over TWICE your size and you don't see me making such a baseless argument!

:rofl:
Exactly.

Here is the Tokyo commuter rail map:

http://www.johomaps.com/as/japan/tokyo/tokyo2.jpg
http://www.johomaps.com/as/japan/tokyo/tokyo2.jpg

Here is another:
http://web.yl.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/jp/rail-big.gif
http://web.yl.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/jp/rail-big.gif

Here is the Tokyo city urban rail map:

http://de.geocities.com/tok_subway/tokyo-map.gif
http://de.geocities.com/tok_subway/tokyo-map.gif

Posted the regional map here by accident. :p

:crazy:

You are honestly going to compare Chicago with its carnival like "loop" around downtown with the megalopolis of Tokyo?

And commuter rail not far behind Tokyo? WTF?

I am from a city with a metropolitan area over TWICE your size and you don't see me making such a baseless argument!

:rofl:

Who said that the "loop" is the only commuter rail there is for chicago,lol! You need to get out more, and then come here to accuse!
What metro are you from and what does it have to do with this thread?
From the way you are saying, it is most likely that you don't know jacks about rail, so I can pretty much ignore what you are saying! :sleepy:
BTW, I doubt that Tokyo will never become the railroad capital due to its lack of freight rails, you don't agree...too bad,lol! No one says being/maintain as a railroad capital is an easy tasks. :)

Jue, thanks for the Tokyo commuter rail network map, I already know that Tokyo has one of the most impressive commter rail in the world!
Why don't you also show me some Tokyo freight rail network map or the satellite pics showing its railroad yards?
Until then, I still don't think that Tokyo is railroad capital due to the inbalance!
For now, Chicago still remain the most balance out of all the cities mention so far.
I will try to find the chicago commuter network map to show here! :) :cheers:

Jue, thanks for the Tokyo commuter rail network map, I already know that Tokyo has one of the most impressive commter rail in the world!
Why don't you also show me some Tokyo freight rail network map or the satellite pics showing its railroad yards?
Until then, I still don't think that Tokyo is railroad capital due to the inbalance!
For now, Chicago still remain the most balance out of all the cities mention so far.
I will try to find the chicago commuter network map to show here! :) :cheers:
You live in fantasy land if you think Chicago is ANYWHERE comparable to New York, London, Tokyo.

End of discussion.

From what I've seen,

1. Tokyo, at least for commuter rail.

2. Los Angeles is probably the largest for freight rail, due to its geographic location (made in China, supplies mainland USA).
If you can find it, at the 2000ft scale, there's actually quite a large railyard in LA, although its smaller than the one in Omaha.

You live in fantasy land if you think Chicago is ANYWHERE comparable to New York

Are there links to charts and statistics? Being from the USA myself I know a little bit about the early history of Chicago, our arch-rival city; that is, how it practically owes its existence to the railroads. Amtrak has as many lines running into/out of Chicago as NY. But I can always be convinced otherwise with solid facts.

Are there links to charts and statistics? Being from the USA myself I know a little bit about the early history of Chicago, our arch-rival city; that is, how it practically owes its existence to the railroads. Amtrak has as many lines running into/out of Chicago as NY. But I can always be convinced otherwise with solid facts.
Look at a map.

;)

Many lines from the Midwest/Texas also converge in on Chicago before converging on New York. So I would believe it would easily be one of the nation's top freight traffic contributors. My guess, probably on par or greater than that of New York, but I'll need to look into this.

Look at a map.

;)

There may be small lines carrying large amts. of traffic, i.e. Alameda corridor from LA to Long Beach, so sometimes maps can be a little misleading.

Why are you guys harping on freight? Chicago would only win this one because of location. And when it comes to other important aspects like metro/commuter rail, Chicago gets CREAMED by London and Tokyo and New York!

There may be small lines carrying large amts. of traffic, i.e. Alameda corridor from LA to Long Beach, so sometimes maps can be a little misleading.
PLEASE tell me we are not now trying to say that LA can compete with New York for rail.

Freight also counts as part of rail traffic.
However, I would like to (regionally) place more emphasis on passengers. LA has a pathetic metro system, far short of its freight system.

PLEASE tell me we are not now trying to say that LA can compete with New York for rail.

In terms of passengers, which would seem to be your definition, there is no way; I am in no position to disagree on that. However, these coastal cities carry an enormous amount of freight (in addition to Chicago).

Freight also counts as part of rail traffic.
However, I would like to (regionally) place more emphasis on passengers. LA has a pathetic metro system, far short of its freight system.
Freight is nothing but a small part of rail traffic. Hence why using such a minor part of overall traffic to copmare cities like Chicago and Tokyo ( :crazy: ) is just insanely wrong.

Freight is nothing but a small part of rail traffic.

Define "small." Inanimate, perhaps? Or something of economic value? Despite matching the multiple of human passengers' combined weight by a factor of half a dozen or more?

Or non-cosmopolitan? Slow speed? Diesel-electric blocky chuggers? Non-aesthetic appeal? Not around tourist locations? No sex appeal? Right-of-way annoyances? What is it? I want some facts.

Which city is it? and Why is it the railroad capital(freight & commuter rail)
:cheers: :)

Remember to take into account the original post's topic. So far, I'm unsure if it's some US city or Tokyo.

Chicago's freight rail network:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6207/10995463771b0d3b67ao0gw.jpg
http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/photos/places/Illinois/chicago/2002/air/dscf0036.jpg

Some of the chicago's largest freight railroad yards from satellites:
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.758508,-87.761021&spn=0.06377,0.11673
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.899051,-87.908735&spn=0.015908,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.945447,-87.89968&spn=0.015896,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.644408,-87.651114&spn=0.015971,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/Memphis/Appendix%20Materials/Lambert/Slide15.JPG
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/boundforglory/images/bg0062.jpg
http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/clearovrpss.jpg

Chicago's commuter rail network:

Metra commuter rail yards:
http://www.subwaynut.com/chicago/photos/metra7.jpg
http://www.subwaynut.com/chicago/photos/metra9.jpg

Amtrak commuter rail yards:
http://www.milord.com/rl1_smpl.jpg
http://www.damchicago.com/e-cards/chicago-skyline-train.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/www/transit/Chicago_L.gif
http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif

Scroll---------------------->also look at how many huge railroad yards for freights, easy to spot, all over the city! :runaway:
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_2_med.jpg
http://www.clanmacleodusa.org/metra-system-map04-2003.gif
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_Labels2_med.gif

http://www.wilbursmith.com/HSRQuals/hsr2.gif
http://www.20thcentury.org/images/SkyboxVu2.JPG

:runaway:
:cheers:
:eek2:

You live in fantasy land if you think Chicago is ANYWHERE comparable to New York, London, Tokyo.

End of discussion.

Oh, really, I am living in a fantasy land of chicago that capitalized on all aspect of rail right! :) :cheers:

Why not? That is my point!
What makes you think that Tokyo beat Chicago by long shot if you can barely see any freight rails? That alone don't tell me anything about the capital of railroad. We aren't looking for commuter rail capital! So why don't you explain and show some proof! :) BTW, Chicago beat Tokyo in a long shot particular in freight! Its commuter isn't far behind as well... :cheers:

Hahahahah.

'Its commuter isn't far behind as well...'

Have you been to Tokyo? I havent been to Chicago but I can bet 1000 dollars just the JR System in Tokyo would be twice the size of all the commuter lines,elevated track and subways in Chicago.

And Im just comparing Tokyo's JR system.Not the Subway,the private rail companys and all the other forms of rail you find in a city with a greater population of 70 million.

You can post all the pictures you want of Chicago's network. It is child's play compared to Tokyo.

Honestly, this is like saying that the US and Rwanda are comparably wealthy countries. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but in the end there is a VERY clear winner.

Rwanda :cheers:

:jk:



:weirdo:




:sleepy:

Hahahahah.

'Its commuter isn't far behind as well...'

Have you been to Tokyo? I havent been to Chicago but I can bet 1000 dollars just the JR System in Tokyo would be twice the size of all the commuter lines,elevated track and subways in Chicago.

And Im just comparing Tokyo's JR system.Not the Subway,the private rail companys and all the other forms of rail you find in a city with a greater population of 70 million.

Like I say, chicago's commuter rail certainly can't compare to the commuter rail oriented Tokyo. But remember what we are looking for right here!
"RAILROAD" capital of the world and not "COMMUTER RAIL" or "FREIGHT RAIL"!
You people are pretty one sided and think that for as long as a city is capitalized in commuter rail area, it automatically crown for the "railroad" captial of the world. WRONG! A true railroad capital has to capitalized on BOTH commuter and freight rail network. and the closely city that possessed BOTH area is Chicago. I am yet to see some proof for other cities that are claiming to be, but so far, they are all pretty much commuter rail capitalized city with some to near non existence freight rail network. Prove me wrong...waiting! :) :cheers:

Like I say, chicago's commuter rail certainly can't compare to the commuter rail oriented Tokyo. But remember what we are looking for right here!
"RAILROAD" capital of the world and not "COMMUTER RAIL" or "FREIGHT RAIL"!
You people are pretty one sided and think that for as long as a city is capitalized in commuter rail area, it automatically crown for the "railroad" captial of the world. WRONG! A true railroad capital has to capitalized on BOTH commuter and freight rail network. and the closely city that possessed BOTH area is Chicago. I am yet to see some proof for other cities that are claiming to be, but so far, they are all pretty much commuter rail capitalized city with some to near non existence freight rail network. Prove me wrong...waiting! :) :cheers:
You don't need to be proven wrong when the facts make the argument for you.

;)

Tokyo wins. END OF DISCUSSION. Any benefit Chicago has by its centrality in the country in terms of freight (i.e., not anything inherent to the city) is relatively superfluous to the monstrous traffic and passenger volumes that Tokyo handles.

You can post all the pictures you want of Chicago's network. It is child's play compared to Tokyo.

Honestly, this is like saying that the US and Rwanda are comparably wealthy countries. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but in the end there is a VERY clear winner.

What is wrong? Didn't you say to show some commuter rail network of chicago other than its "loop",LOL! :bash:

What is wrong? Didn't you say to show some commuter rail network of chicago other than its "loop",LOL! :bash:
It was more to mock Chicago for having a carnival like elevated loop as the main part of the system. ;) Something serious metro cities like London, New York, Tokyo, or Paris would not have. :D

And yes, those commuter rail maps get slapped silly by New York, London, and Tokyo.

You don't need to be proven wrong when the facts make the argument for you.

;)

Tokyo wins. END OF DISCUSSION. Any benefit Chicago has by its centrality in the country in terms of freight (i.e., not anything inherent to the city) is relatively superfluous to the monstrous traffic and passenger volumes that Tokyo handles.


:)
But I am sorry DonQui! The facts of mine is indeed the total volumne of freights and passensgers generated by chicago compare to that of passengers of Tokyo. Guess what, which city handles more weights at the end of year? Chicago! :cheers:

It was more to mock Chicago for having a carnival like elevated loop as the main part of the system. ;) Something serious metro cities like London, New York, Tokyo, or Paris would not have. :D

And yes, those commuter rail maps get slapped silly by New York, London, and Tokyo.

Don't be naive, you know the railroad isn't commuter alone! You are just trying to play with the fact! Face it, Chicago got them all equally! Eventho, Tokyo, NYC and London can be capitalized in the commuter department! :)

Don't be naive, you know the railroad isn't commuter alone! You are just trying to play with the fact! Face it, Chicago got them all equally! Eventho, Tokyo, NYC and London can be capitalized in the commuter department! :)
:blahblah:

Arguing like you is like arguing with a blind man about the color of the sky.

:goodbye:

:blahblah:

Arguing like you is like arguing with a blind man about the color of the sky.

:goodbye:

Oh really!
So what do you think that make up of "railroad"? :cheers:

I agree with ChicagoSkyline when he said Chicago has a huge freight rail, but IMHO, threre's no other city more obsessed with rail than Tokyo. The fact that they don't have proper street names and use the nearest rail station as reference point to navigate the city is one example of their passion towards railway. This is something u can't get any other city in the world. So I'd pick Tokyo as the winner because of their passion and outright obsession for rail :)

I agree with ChicagoSkyline when he said Chicago has a huge freight rail, but IMHO, threre's no other city more obsessed with rail than Tokyo. The fact that they don't have proper street names and use the nearest rail station as reference point to navigate the city is one example of their passion towards railway. This is something u can't get any other city in the world. So I'd pick Tokyo as the winner because of their passion and outright obsession for rail :)

:) I totally agree with you!
Tokyo citizens live for the commuter rail everyday and that passion certainly can't be match anywhere in the world. I also admire their effort that they put into the commuter network and continues to make it the most efficent.

Same thing as chicago for its freight and commuter now, I guess that chicagoan love both of them equally which was once capitalized only in freight area. Chicago certainly has long way to go to compare with Tokyo,but I believe its commuter rail network shouldn't be overlook, just because it already has the world's largest freight rail network. Yea, this railroad capital of the world is an easy thing if you are only looking at passenager rail, but don't forget that transfer of goods shouldn't be left out,because revenue of handling one freight train can be equal to 1000 times or way more than handling of one commuter train! So talking about the railroad excluding the freight is like talking about this site with only the readers without all the writers, it just doesn't work! They are both important and should be equally look into when consider railroad capital! :)

Chicago rails combined in tons in 1998:
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/Memphis/Appendix%20Materials/Lambert/Slide15.JPG
:runaway:

How much does Tokyo rails combined in tons per year? :cheers:

^^ well said, the way how the both chicago and tokyo evolved into what they are today has a lot to do with demand and supply, and of course geography played a small and important part . Chicago is a important hub for rail freight because it's situated at the crossroad to the largest trading partner - Canada. So it's well served with railway traffics from both side of the border. International freight also goes all the way down to Mexico, making Chicago an important transrailway freight hub.
Tokyo on the other hand, developed its massive commuter rail in order to move their huge population in an effective manner. Land is scarce, hence railway is necessary in order to make their citizens productive - and it's been proven to be very successful. Being and island state, they only share their borders with the Pacific ocean, so international freight is of no existance - can't really blame them on this one :) should they have transborder rail network, i reckon they will be as successful as Chicago in frieght rail. so really there's no perfection either way, where's the rail capital of the world ? u tell me....but IMHO, it's not that important , right ... these cities built on their might of their rail network but they are unique in their own ways - isn't that great !! :)

^^^^
:) :) :) :cheers: :runaway:

No one is disputing freight's importance in Chicago.

That withstanding, it still does not hold a candle to Tokyo! A bunch of non-electrified diesel lines on crappy tracks do not compare with the wide variety of electrified beauties criss crossing the heart of greater Tokyo carring millions upon millions of passengers every day!

So even if Tokyo ONLY has passenger rail (which I highly doubt) and Chicago has large freight infrastructure, in terms of quality, quantity, and variety, Tokyo wins!

:crazy:

No one is disputing freight's importance in Chicago.

That withstanding, it still does not hold a candle to Tokyo! A bunch of non-electrified diesel lines on crappy tracks do not compare with the wide variety of electrified beauties criss crossing the heart of greater Tokyo carring millions upon millions of passengers every day!

So even if Tokyo ONLY has passenger rail (which I highly doubt) and Chicago has large freight infrastructure, in terms of quality, quantity, and variety, Tokyo wins!

:crazy:

No one is deny Tokyo's unbelieable commuter importance!
However, it still doesn't hold a candle to Chicago in freight!
Don't forget Chicago also has decent commuter rail! Ok, Tokyo is the capital for commuter rail, but chicago is the capital of the rail! Is that ok?

Who the heck cares? This discussion has gotten ridiculous...

Who the heck cares? This discussion has gotten ridiculous...

Railroad capitalists!
:jk: :)

No one is deny Tokyo's unbelieable commuter importance!
However, it still doesn't hold a candle to Chicago in freight!
Don't forget Chicago also has decent commuter rail! Ok, Tokyo is the capital for commuter rail, but chicago is the capital of the rail! Is that ok?
Nope, because Chicago's credentials are built on crappy unelectrified third world quality rails with simplistic infrastructure. :D

I think Tokyo has some freight rail as well.

Nope, because Chicago's credentials are built on crappy unelectrified third world quality rails with simplistic infrastructure. :D

3rd world quality rails?
Dude, what century are u in?
BTW, chicago rail built on the simplicity to the point that it still generates more tonages and revenues than tokyo yearly! :)

Wondering why Japan steadily decline in its freight rails, because it is no longer profitable! :)

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/presentations/images/lambert_04.jpg
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/presentations/images/lambert_05.jpg
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/state_info/illinois/il.gif

http://www.bts.gov/publications/tsar/1999/images/figure2-12.gif
http://www.bts.gov/publications/transportation_statistics_annual_report/1999/images/figure2-8.gif
http://voteview.com/images/freight00.gif
http://www.metropolisplan.org/map14.jpg

:blahblah:

Obviously you have not seen the maps of Tokyo's network. Go back a couple of pages.

Tokyo, London, and New York cream Chicago.

Feel like I am running a frickin' kindergarten here.

:blahblah:

Obviously you have not seen the maps of Tokyo's network. Go back a couple of pages.

Tokyo, London, and New York cream Chicago.

Feel like I am running a frickin' kindergarten here.

Oh, really creampie of Tokyo,lol!
You sound like a "kingdergarten" to me! :)

Just looking at the sheer number of rail that are relating to chicago than tokyo...It is like creampie tokyo with the :)
Image Googling:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430
"tokyo rail" results: about 901

"chicago rail yard" results: about 273
"tokyo rail yard" results: about 3

"chicago freight rail" result: 91
"tokyo freight rail" result: 5

"chicago commuter rail" result: about 129
"tokyo commuter rail" result: about 4

"chicago railway" result: 3140
"tokyo railway" result: 1720

"chicago rail flow" result: 3
"tokyo rail flow" result: 2

Hey DonQui, try to educate yourself before you come on here and starting your creampie obesseion! Get the fact, who cream who! :bash:
:runaway: :cheers:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/freightaq/images/figurec_4.gif

Image Googling:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430
"tokyo rail" results: about 901


"london rail" results:about 8,540 :wave:
"new york rail" results:about 4,330 :lol:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430 :rofl:


anyway, japanese dont use english.

I wonder which city has the most rail comparing it to its inhabitants?

People seem to forget that alot of smaller European cities do have huge networks like Berlin and for instance.
I guess cities like Paris & Moscow are under-rated in this thread

Tokyo has freight rails. However, most of freight trains (JR Freight) bound for Tokyo stopped at somewhere in Kawasaki, Yokohama, and Yokosuka because most of freights were intended for industrial sectors. Also the freight transportation by cargo ships is much more important in Japan than train freight transportation. Intercity freight transportation is mainly handled by cargo ships (Major Japanese cities except for Sapporo are located on sea coast). Trucks handle inner city freight transportation. This situation is very different from the transportation system in USA, in which many big cities do not even have sea ports. Chicago has developed as a hub to connect midland agricultural sectors with populated areas in North East.

As far as passenger train transportation is concerned, Tokyo is definitely the winner. Train ridership in Tokyo metropolitan area is 2.5 times as much as that in the whole entire USA. I think that this fact is well established in this forum. However, for freight transportation sector, I suppose that US railway networks should be compared with Chinese counterpart. US have several things in common with China geologically. Both have vast agricultural lands and coal mines in the middle of continents. I feel that there should be several big stations oriented for coal and food transport in China. China has sizable amounts of passenger railway systems as well.

Passenger person-km China 405 Japan 241 USA 42 billion/year
Freight tonne-km USA 2238 China 1231 Russia 1205 billion/year

There hasn't been much discussion about freight railway systems in this forum. We need more information about freight rails in many countries especially in China, Russia, and India. Additionally passenger railway systems seem to be well developed in these countries.

(Addendum)

The distance traveled by rail per inhabitant in km/year

Japan 1900 Switzerland 1730 Belarus 1260 France 1060 Ukraine 1010
Denmark 1000 Austria 1000 Russia 990 Egypt 880
(India 370 China 310 USA 140)

Obviously Japanese and Europeans use trains more than others.

i read somewhere that 60% of rail commuters are in japan.... i think it was BBC....

I would imagine that Chicago fas more miles of track than anywhere simply due to the number of yards and terminals. However I think there is less interchange between yards now due to railroad mergers and dedicated unit trains. Remember Chicago at one time hosted the New York Central, The Pennsylvannia, Baltimore and Ohio, Chesapeake and Ohio, Norfolk and Western, Illinois Central Gulf, Chicago and North Western, Chicago, Milwaukie, St Paul and Pacific, Northern Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Chicago Burlington and Quincy, Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe, Chicago Rock Island and Pacific, Chicago Great Western, Indiana Harbor Belt and Belt Railway of Chicago.

All these roads had their own freight yard. Now through mergers there is only 4 big roads, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, Norfolk Southern, CSX and Union Pacific running into Chicago, but they still utilize many of the yards and the city. Through sheer tonnage and car movements, Chicago probably is the Railroad capital of the World.

Just looking at the sheer number of rail that are relating to chicago than tokyo...It is like creampie tokyo with the :)
Image Googling:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430
"tokyo rail" results: about 901

"chicago rail yard" results: about 273
"tokyo rail yard" results: about 3

"chicago freight rail" result: 91
"tokyo freight rail" result: 5

"chicago commuter rail" result: about 129
"tokyo commuter rail" result: about 4

"chicago railway" result: 3140
"tokyo railway" result: 1720

"chicago rail flow" result: 3
"tokyo rail flow" result: 2

Hey DonQui, try to educate yourself before you come on here and starting your creampie obesseion! Get the fact, who cream who! :bash:
:runaway: :cheers:
Ever think that most sites about JAPANESE rail would be in JAPANESE?

DOY!

:doh:

IMO

#1 Tokyo

#2 Paris

#3 London

#4 New York

#5 Chicago ( sorry but face the facts!)

Hey, even Copenhagen has some serius tracks :D
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3932/railroadjunktion9ca.jpg

If Tokyo is number 1 then surely Osaka is number 2. Osaka also has many private railways, Hanshin, Hankyu, Kintetsu being the larger ones.

If anyone has been to Chicago then it is a freight version of Tokyo's passenger system. There are mile long trains slowly moving around the metro area at all times of the day.

New York has very little freight as it is concentrated around Newark and the area container ports. Most of the commuter traffic into New York is provided by the Lon Island Railroad. Much of New Jersey Transit's traffic terminates in Jersey City at the Lackawanna Terminal.

Just looking at the sheer number of rail that are relating to chicago than tokyo...It is like creampie tokyo with the :)
Image Googling:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430
"tokyo rail" results: about 901

"chicago rail yard" results: about 273
"tokyo rail yard" results: about 3

"chicago freight rail" result: 91
"tokyo freight rail" result: 5

"chicago commuter rail" result: about 129
"tokyo commuter rail" result: about 4

"chicago railway" result: 3140
"tokyo railway" result: 1720

"chicago rail flow" result: 3
"tokyo rail flow" result: 2

Hey DonQui, try to educate yourself before you come on here and starting your creampie obesseion! Get the fact, who cream who! :bash:
:runaway: :cheers:
:rofl: :rofl:
Try to search in Japanese!!
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
LOL

Ever think that most sites about JAPANESE rail would be in JAPANESE?

DOY!

:doh:

So you are telling me that the world captial of railroad don't want the international folks to know by restricting it to only in Japanese? LOL, what do they gotta hide? :bash: :sleepy:

I would imagine that Chicago fas more miles of track than anywhere simply due to the number of yards and terminals. However I think there is less interchange between yards now due to railroad mergers and dedicated unit trains. Remember Chicago at one time hosted the New York Central, The Pennsylvannia, Baltimore and Ohio, Chesapeake and Ohio, Norfolk and Western, Illinois Central Gulf, Chicago and North Western, Chicago, Milwaukie, St Paul and Pacific, Northern Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Chicago Burlington and Quincy, Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe, Chicago Rock Island and Pacific, Chicago Great Western, Indiana Harbor Belt and Belt Railway of Chicago.

All these roads had their own freight yard. Now through mergers there is only 4 big roads, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, Norfolk Southern, CSX and Union Pacific running into Chicago, but they still utilize many of the yards and the city. Through sheer tonnage and car movements, Chicago probably is the Railroad capital of the World.
Hey thanks for the great response!
Got a quickie, which one of these 4 big ones handles the most traffic, tonnages and owns the most yards? :)
BTW, you know something about chicago railroad...you a native?

:runaway: IMO

#1 Tokyo

#2 Paris

#3 London

#4 New York

#5 Chicago ( sorry but face the facts!)

Hey, even Copenhagen has some serius tracks :D
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3932/railroadjunktion9ca.jpg

I am sorry, but face what facts! All I have seem so far are the Tokyo commuter rail network maps and you are telling me paris?, london?, what are you based on? You know that they are all merely commuter rails right....

BTW, that copenhagen rail yards can barely be notice if it is in chicago when see from the satellite, also, do you see that there practically no trains on any of tracks,lol! Now you face the facts!
Scroll-------------------------------------->
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_2_med.jpg

^^^^
Do you see how many visible rail yards that are visible even viewing in this distant from satellite!
Now, if you think that Tokyo, Paris, London, NYC all are better in railroad area, pleas also show me all of their satellite shots of whole city and lets count how many railroad yards that are visible. You can't be the capital of "RAILROAD" in the world if you can't even easily find some large railroad yards all over the city right? GOOD LUCK! :cheers:

Oh, and looking at that chicago satellite pic, notice the railroad yards below Chicago Midway airport( X ) actually looks larger than airport! and we have like 5 of them near downtown.... :runaway:

Hey thanks for the great response!
Got a quickie, which one of these 4 big ones handles the most traffic, tonnages and owns the most yards? :)
BTW, you know something about chicago railroad...you a native?

No.....

At a guess I would say BNSF handles the most.

So far from the facts shown here,
I think Chicago(Freight and commuter rails) is easily the Railroad capital of the world follow closely by Tokyo(Commuter rail capital)!
Come one people prove me wrong, by showing some facts,like the stats for commuter and the freight rails for the cities, satellite shot of the city that can be call as capital(we will count the # of rail yards), pics of largest railroad yard in that city(this should be easy for the capital, if you don't have one of the largest rail yard in the world, don't bother calling it a railroad capital).....etc Good luck railroad hunters for the potential match ups with Chicago & Tokyo! :cheers:
:)

No.....

At a guess I would say BNSF handles the most.

Oh, Cool, that is also the line I used most often with Metra and Amtrak to commute between Chicago and the burbs and even the SW Illinois! :)

1) Tokyo
2) Paris
3) London

chicago for freight, but overall it has to be Tokyo
Tokyo is first by far because of commuters, HSR and everithing else.

After: London, Paris (4 HSR stations inside Paris and 3 HSR stations in the suburbs), NYC, Chicago (freight), Milano, Köln, Moscow, Dehli and Bombay, Shangaï (Transrapid), Amsterdam (tramways).

I don't think Chicago would overtake Tokyo in the futur but it can become second with some HSR to Detroit-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec or to NYC.

Tokyo is first by far because of commuters, HSR and everithing else.

After: London, Paris (4 HSR stations inside Paris and 3 HSR stations in the suburbs), NYC, Chicago (freight), Milano, Köln, Moscow, Dehli and Bombay, Shangaï (Transrapid), Amsterdam (tramways).


Well, I do know that Tokyo is without the doubt the "Commuter" rail capital of the world and the rest of other cities that you mention can't be any better than tokyo, but what you all missing is that balance of railroad between commuter and freight! Apprently, commuter rail isn't the ONLY area that make up railroad, so we also have to look into the freight area for the railroad capital as well.
I only want to find out the CAPITAL that has both equally impressive commuter and freight rails that has some visible rail yards from satellite to prove that it deserves the crown. Is that so hard?
Here is the example for "Railroad"(commuter & freight) capital of Chicago and I hope that I can see all the cities mention so far with this type of prove... :cheers:
Scroll--------------------------------------------------->
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_2_med.jpg
:runaway:

... and exactly how are huge barren rail yards a good thing?? I think they're an eyesore. Thankfully most cities do not have such hideous monstrosities...

Anyway, Rail Capital?? This picture says it all:

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7851/jr51hj.jpg

Naturally its going to be Tokyo first, but with London close behind. Interestingly with both cities the percentage of heavy rail in the actual city isn't dominated by their underground railway networks but by their commuter rail services within the city (compared to say Paris or New York). The next tier would be the likes of Osaka, New York, Paris and then several larger tiers following on from there.

I'm unsure why ChicagoSkyline places so much emphasis on rail yards and the like, especially when although freight is important, pales in comparison to the traffic and volumes moved by passenger heavy rail. Stations in London and Tokyo handle in excess of 2,000 passenger trains every day, while some Tokyo stations move millions each day! The diversity of rolling stock in Tokyo, London and Paris is immense with iconic sardine Tokyo subway carriages to Shinkansen 500 in Tokyo or crammed tube trains to historical steam trains going on tours from London. Now you might prefer mile long 10mph cargo trains, but I would suspect that the vast majority here would prefer to see 400m Shinkansens and Eurostars roaring around at 300kph.

Oh for Christ's sake chicagoskyline, how old are you, 15?

Tokyo whoops Chicago. END OF DISCUSSION.

BTW, that copenhagen rail yards can barely be notice if it is in chicago when see from the satellite, also, do you see that there practically no trains on any of tracks,lol! Now you face the facts!Yes, like the rest of the world we are evoling too - freigt trains are sooo last millenium :D

( new bridges connecting to Sweden and Jutland made using trucks more economic )

Please don't take it personal, as your city has so much else to offer, but a couple of freigt stations just doesn't cut it :cheers:

So you are telling me that the world captial of railroad don't want the international folks to know by restricting it to only in Japanese? LOL, what do they gotta hide? :bash: :sleepy:
:crazy:

So you are telling me that the world captial of railroad don't want the international folks to know by restricting it to only in Japanese? LOL, what do they gotta hide? :bash: :sleepy:

Ha! ... hilarious, this is what they have to hide:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4643/s761nd.jpg

Hahaha. Shinkansen owns.

Anyhow, Japanese people use Japanese for the same reason Americans use English. Obviously most people reading Japanese web pages would want to read in Japanese.

Just looking at the sheer number of rail that are relating to chicago than tokyo...It is like creampie tokyo with the :)
Image Googling:
"chicago rail" results:about 2,430
"tokyo rail" results: about 901

"chicago railway" result: 3140
"tokyo railway" result: 1720



"東京　鉄道" (Tokyo Railroad) result: 6090
"Chigaco Railroad" result: 6240

It's to close to call


btw:
"London Rail" result: 8690 :)

id say tokyo, london, newyork. i dont see why chicago is even in the top list here.

^^^^
Do you see how many visible rail yards that are visible even viewing in this distant from satellite!
Now, if you think that Tokyo, Paris, London, NYC all are better in railroad area, pleas also show me all of their satellite shots of whole city and lets count how many railroad yards that are visible. You can't be the capital of "RAILROAD" in the world if you can't even easily find some large railroad yards all over the city right? GOOD LUCK! :cheers:
In Europe and mainly in Spain, a lot of tracks go underground inside cities, you cannot see them from satellites!
;)

Ha! ... hilarious, this is what they have to hide:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4643/s761nd.jpg

I never say that Tokyo doesn't have commuter rail, you are just kidding yourself. Show me some tokyo freight rail yards that are larger than Chicago then, Tokyo can be consider the "railroad" capital of the world, until then, Tokyo IMHO still only capitalized in commuting rail. Come on, show me something that I don't already know about,lol! :) :cheers:

BTW, still waiting for some satellite shots of the city's that all you people said as capital of the railroad, which one is it and post it. Don't just tell me about it, SHOW IT! Everyone can say which is better, but until proven clearly, I doubt that the Capital of railraod thus far still steady held by Chicago! :runaway: :)

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Chicago_Rail_Geographic_2_med.jpg

Most Americans don't even know the name of one freight rail company. Chicago, you're probably the biggest freight rail center in the world, but seriously, when you mention rail transport to most people, they don't think about freight.

Second, I'd guarantee that most large cities with metro have more vehicle-kilometers traveled daily over Chicago. You might see a freight train pass by every half hour or so, but with metro you have trains running every 3 minutes.

Argh, I don't even know why I'm arguing here, Chicago just stubbornly expects the "rail capital of the world" to be defined as the city with the biggest freight yards...

Most Americans don't even know the name of one freight rail company. Chicago, you're probably the biggest freight rail center in the world, but seriously, when you mention rail transport to most people, they don't think about freight.

Second, I'd guarantee that most large cities with metro have more vehicle-kilometers traveled daily over Chicago. You might see a freight train pass by every half hour or so, but with metro you have trains running every 3 minutes.

Argh, I don't even know why I'm arguing here, Chicago just stubbornly expects the "rail capital of the world" to be defined as the city with the biggest freight yards...

Thanks you Frungy, for more explaination on the freight rail part of railroad!
Anyway, as most of people here already know where the commuter rail capital is and they thought, heck, might as well call it the complete package eventho, it is indeed lack in othere department. I really don't care how impressive and stunning one's commuter rail network is, when you have a pie represent as railroad, you cut it into half with one side represent passenger rail and the other as freight rail. If you max out on the passenger side you only have freight side to take care, and in the case of Tokyo, it is indeed maxing out on the commuter side while the freight side almost untouch...however, in the case of Chicago railroad, it is about equality of both sides, even tho its freight side nearly maxing out while the commuter side is half of its side and possible more. This is how the railraod capital should possess, having strength on both sides isn't just economical, it is efficient! I am not sure why people continue to ignore the important part of freight rail. It is just as important as commuter! It may not look sleek, run fast and clean, but the role of it just too rich to ingnore! Being in chicago isn't just the skyscraper and skyline museum of the world, its railroad also one of the world's best and largest collection. You wondering why chicago freight rail still one of the world's largest. It is because it is continue to generate tons of money for th city and that to us just as important as the revenue from the commuter rails alone!
I really like to check out some of the freight rail yards of the cities that people said should be railroad capital of the world, is that so hard? Is it too much to ask? Please, if you really think that city is worth the title railroad capital, show the best of two sides, the commuter rail yards and freight rail yards and the statellite of the whole city with its railroad infrastructure visible. Then I think that we have a winner! Otherwise, it is just too hard for me to change the obvious railroad capital of the world title from Chicago! :)

So even if Tokyo ONLY has passenger rail (which I highly doubt) and Chicago has large freight infrastructure, in terms of quality, quantity, and variety, Tokyo wins!


I'm sorry, DonQui, but I'll have to agree with ChicagoSkyline on this one. He has presented many facts and numerous statistics, graphically with maps, and has confirmed many of my earlier anticipations.

Trying to assert that freight is an inferior measure of rail traffic is completely baseless. Remember, the original topic stipulated both commuter and freight aspects of this discussion. You went on to say "why is everyone harpin' about freight?"

Why? Because (shoving aside the fact that it conforms to the topic of discussion) it is a valid measure of rail traffic, and a rather significant one as well. Trying to compare it with commuter rail is useless; it is neither less or more significant.

I am starting to become interested. When I have time, I'll try to post up some statistics between Chicago and Tokyo in both aspects.

I'm sorry, DonQui, but I'll have to agree with ChicagoSkyline on this one. He has presented many facts and numerous statistics, graphically with maps, and has confirmed many of my earlier anticipations.

Trying to assert that freight is an inferior measure of rail traffic is completely baseless. Remember, the original topic stipulated both commuter and freight aspects of this discussion. You went on to say "why is everyone harpin' about freight?"

Why? Because (shoving aside the fact that it conforms to the topic of discussion) it is a valid measure of rail traffic, and a rather significant one as well. Trying to compare it with commuter rail is useless; it is neither less or more significant.

Hey Facial, Welcome to our railroad capital of the world discussion!
By all means, if you know much about both sides of rail network, please be more active in this thread. We really need both views to compare each railroad cities. So far, I have seem some very impressive Tokyo commuter network and totally agree with some of the people that it can easily take the cake on the commuter rail capital of the world, BUT for being a railroad enthuist, I can't overlove one area of rail just because it is the most admire, attractive and well known. To be fare, one has to look into both side and make the judgement for the right comparison. I really do believe this is the close match between Chicago and Tokyo, but I also realized some of the european folks think that London, Paris and even Copenghen can even be up there. So I love to see all these other cities that also has the potential. Really, that is all! Thanks again for bring back to the right direction on the topic at hand!:) :cheers:

I am starting to become interested. When I have time, I'll try to post up some statistics between Chicago and Tokyo in both aspects.

Please do Facial! :)
You sound like an expert or railroad lover that has deep interest in the railroad infrastructure. Can't wait for some fun! :cheers:

Tokyo has a fair amount of freight traffic, the highest in Japan. This is more so as Japan is not known for usage of heavy trucks.

On my list, Chicago would certainly be number two, ahead of New York, London, and Paris. Its freight volume is astounding by any standard. Tokyo gets the crown because of how far ahead it is of the pack. The city rail network makes 13 BILLION annual passenger trips, more than the next few world cities combined.

Apprently, commuter rail isn't the ONLY area that make up railroad, so we also have to look into the freight area for the railroad capital as well.

I understand what you mean but what about long distance trains (especialy HSR) in Chicago ? How many people use train to travel from Chicago to NYC or Toronto ?

About freight, Chicago is number one. It's a good exemple that should be followed by European countries: except Germany and Switzerland, railroad is less and less used for freight toward the continent.

If both huge passenger and freight railway systems are required for the definition here, probably Moscow or Paris rather than Tokyo or Chicago could be a better candidate for the railway capital of the world. It is well known in this forum that Paris has very good mass transportation systems. Moscow also has very good metro systems with very good ridership. Chicago is inferior to both cities in passenger transportation systems.

The freight rail usage in billion of ton kilometer is as follows;

United States 2238
China 1231
Russia 1205
India 282
EU 240

Since USA, China, and Russia are broader than EU area, it is understandable that the number in EU is smaller than those in these countries. These numbers do not represent the freight volumes handled in these countries.

Both Moscow and Paris do not face the sea. Therefore I would think that both Moscow and Paris need some amounts of freight train transportation systems. I checked out the satellite map of Paris. I found several freight train yards in the city. Since population is more concentrated in France than USA, French cannot waste the land like Americans. The mere size of train yards might not be as meaningful as some people might think it is. In countries like France and Japan, efficiency is more important than anything else.

Tokyo has some freight train yards (http://maps.google.com/?ll=35.596426,139.758668&spn=0.023031,0.045147&t=k&om=1). However, as I said, cargo ships are more important than trains for freight transportation in Japan. Even in this satellite image, the train yard is closely connected with a sea port.

On the other hand, probably Chicago has the biggest capability of handling of freights by trains. However, as everybody here know, passenger train systems in Chicago cannot match with those in any major cities including New York.

Overall I feel that Paris might be the best candidate of train capital of the world if both passenger and freight railway systems are combined (Moscow or some other European cities could be a better candidate too). Tokyo has the best passenger train systems. Chicago has the best freight train systems.

For some people who think chicago commuter rail is only within the city like the CTA and L....think again, it commuter rail network isn't as bad as other top commuter rail cities! :)
As matter of fact, it is now extending furthur away to connect the distant suburban travlers into chicago by rail!
http://www.fta.dot.gov/images/Chicago2.gif


Some Chicago commuter rail:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2600sMetra.jpg
Our very own "L"(Loop)
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/train.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2612-2983.jpg

CTA(Metro)
http://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1999map-lowres.jpg
http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif
http://wunderhund.com/Gallery/Chicago2004/Images/chiFromTrain.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2740b.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2806.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2600/cta2658.jpg

Chicago Metra(Metro and suburub):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Metra-System.png
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00007JO6R.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.coloradorailcar.com/images/Chicago-Metra.jpg
http://www.entenginc.com/whatwedo/images/chmet/metra1.jpg
http://www.railroadpix.com/images/passenger/pas_img_12/metra138_021588_ohiost.JPG
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/Metra.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2037b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2043b_sm.jpg
http://www.absolutestockphoto.com/albums/userpics/10020/normal_Absolute_20_820.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/2733_metra_101603_chicago.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/1265_metra202_110300_chicago_bnsfline.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/2169_metra138_021588_ohiost.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/3013_metra142_031403_18th.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4000_metra_0390_blueisland.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4021_metra197187_050792_berwyn.jpg
http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/metra/2000/4041_metra179_112999_21st.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/34/67190934_b7b7368118_m.jpg
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/Chicago04/METX102.jpg


Chicago Amtrak(Regional):
http://www.azrail.org/amtrak90/f20ill2.gif
http://www.railventures.com/images/railmap.gif
http://www.wcnet.org/~hern/amtrakmap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Amtrak-map.png
http://ipnp00.troja.mff.cuni.cz/~kvita/Zdenek_StPatrick2004/MetraEngine.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2093b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2027b_sm.jpg
http://lakeshoreservices.com/railnut/chicago-20030617-Pict2072b_sm.jpg

:cheers:

I understand what you mean but what about long distance trains (especialy HSR) in Chicago ? How many people use train to travel from Chicago to NYC or Toronto ?

About freight, Chicago is number one. It's a good exemple that should be followed by European countries: except Germany and Switzerland, railroad is less and less used for freight toward the continent.

Yes, we have Amtrak(HSR) communter rail which is running long distance states to states! Well, the HSR isn't as advance yet as some of the ones like Tokyo, London, Paris and some european cities, but it is still quite efficient here in the US! The travel flows using Amtrak really depends, I am sure isn't as many as european cities.
Oh, yea, I have seem some huge freight classification yards that were shown by some europeans from zurich or some germany cities, they are quite as impressive as well! :)

Some Chicago commuter rail:

http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif
Tokyo
http://www.linkclub.or.jp/~minakami/html/circle/sample/ROM6/data/map/TokyoRailMap04a.png

Overview:
http://de.geocities.com/tok_subway/tokyo-map.gif
http://de.geocities.com/tok_subway/tokyo-map.gif

Train lines (http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/v3/81/562181/1/44463421.tokyotrain.jpg)

Subway system (http://www.bento.com/pix/subway5.gif)


Heck even Osaka beast just about everywhere else
http://www.urbancharlotte.com/ptx/rosen%20osaka.jpg

^^^^
:runaway:
Amazing! Especially the commuter rail network in Osaka! :cheers:

Well, Chicago is quite famous for urban planning, so its CTA as you indicated isn't as webish as Tokyo and Osaka! I think our chicagoan like it that way, simplicity is the rule of thumb here! But don't forget, we also have subway, L , Metra and Amtrak rails so overlap each other, it is also crazy as hell! I am trying to find one that overlaps all of them together, it is as webish as the one in Osaka!:)

http://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1999map-lowres.jpg
This is the closely one I can find right now only the commuter rail systems like CTA and Metra in the Chicago, Don't forget that if overlap with fright rail systems and yards, this map will be full! :)

Ok here it is try to visualize overlap these chicago commuter & freight rail map into one:
Freight macro view:
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/state_info/illinois/il.gif

"L"
http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/www/transit/Chicago_L.gif

"CTA"
http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/rail/images/railmap.gif

"Metra"
http://www.clanmacleodusa.org/metra-system-map04-2003.gif

"Amtrak"
http://www.wcnet.org/~hern/amtrakmap.jpg
:runaway:

and don't forget da chicago subway!
http://www.subwaynavigator.com/subway_site/img/subway_maps/couleur/chicago.gif
http://osamuabe.ld.infoseek.co.jp/subway/mappage/chicago.gif
:runaway:

Wow deja vu!





Wow deja vu!

If Chicago is really the railroad capital of the world, it's underrated compared to major cities like New York, London or Tokyo

If Chicago is really the railroad capital of the world, it's underrated compared to major cities like New York, London or Tokyo

Well, not yet at least! :)
Waiting for more railroad cotributions for NYC, London and Paris which are the ones people think has the potential to be railroad capital! How about HK? :cheers:

ChicagoSkyline your persistence is commendable, but in terms of passenger networks even a city like Glasgow (http://www.spt.co.uk/rail/images/SPT_network_2005.pdf) has comparable coverage to Chicago.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Chicago hasn't one of the, if not the, most extensive freight networks in the world... But please you don't need to keep posting the same satellite image over and over again.

To me 'Rail capital' means density of lines and stations, and in this regard its quite plain that Tokyo = #1 and London = #2.

If you want evidence of the latter, follow the link in my signature!

Well, not yet at least! :)
Waiting for more railroad cotributions for NYC, London and Paris which are the ones people think has the potential to be railroad capital! How about HK? :cheers:

HK has one of the best (commuter) rail networks in Asia but I don't consider HK as the rail capital.

Our rail network isn't as large or extensive as Tokyo or London but it serves almost every major part of the city.

Mere maps or pictures do not show the reality. The reason why ridership of USA trains is low is because of their inefficiency. Train networks in Japan and Europe are far more efficient than those in USA. Amtrak is failing because their business is not profitable. On the contrary Japanese and Europeans can invest on HSR. Train networks in Tokyo and Osaka are very profitable without subsidies from the government. The annual passenger trips in Tokyo are 13 billion as Joe said, while those in Chicago (CTA) are merely 470 million (only 3.6% of those in Tokyo). This is annual passenger-mile data in billion for different transportation mode in USA and Japan.


mode USA Japan
Air 482 52
Cars 4295 393
Light vehicles 12 112
Bus 145 53
Train 32 239

I got these numbers directly from the data by department of transportation of each country. The number shows that USA heavily relies on cars for passenger transportation (which includes a lot of SUVs). This situation poses a big problem for Americans in the era of high gas prices. Even to think that passenger transportation systems in USA are comparable with those in Japan is very delusional about the reality.

Mere maps or pictures do not show the reality. The reason why ridership of USA trains is low is because of their inefficiency. Train networks in Japan and Europe are far more efficient than those in USA. Amtrak is failing because their business is not profitable. On the contrary Japanese and Europeans can invest on HSR. Train networks in Tokyo and Osaka are very profitable without subsidies from the government. The annual passenger trips in Tokyo are 13 billion as Joe said, while those in Chicago (CTA) are merely 470 million (only 3.6% of those in Tokyo). This is annual passenger-mile data in billion for different transportation mode in USA and Japan.


mode USA Japan
Air 482 52
Cars 4295 393
Light vehicles 12 112
Bus 145 53
Train 32 239

I got these numbers directly from the data by department of transportation of each country. The number shows that USA heavily relies on cars for passenger transportation (which includes a lot of SUVs). This situation poses a big problem for Americans in the era of high gas prices. Even to think that passenger transportation systems in USA are comparable with those in Japan is very delusional about the reality.

True, geographically speaking, european cities and japanese cities are so well close to each other that investing in their HSR is certainly a good one. Unlike US, we have huge territory to lay tracks to connecting every major cities so the distances are way greater than that of europeans and japanese. That explains why people loves driving and taking the airplanes! But that doesn't take away from Chicago because itself has railroad origin all over the city. And the freight by trains certainly is profitable for city of chicago so unlike europeans, we are continue to balance the freight rails and our commuter networks. Thanks for the comparison stats between USA and Japan, but can you show us like Chicago VS Tokyo? Just cruious! :)

ChicagoSkyline your persistence is commendable, but in terms of passenger networks even a city like Glasgow (http://www.spt.co.uk/rail/images/SPT_network_2005.pdf) has comparable coverage to Chicago.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Chicago hasn't one of the, if not the, most extensive freight networks in the world... But please you don't need to keep posting the same satellite image over and over again.

To me 'Rail capital' means density of lines and stations, and in this regard its quite plain that Tokyo = #1 and London = #2.

If you want evidence of the latter, follow the link in my signature!

Oh, but are you kidding me! Glasgow is comparable to Chicago? After looking at the pdf map, it has nowhere near the commuter network system in Chicago!
Not even the CTA!

Can you still show us some London commuter network at least? :) :cheers:

For Christ's sakes give it up.

You are bordering on absurd.

Who am I kidding, you HAVE ALWAYS been absurd, trying to compare the state of the art Tokyo network, and the massive London and New York networks with a series of unelectrified diesel lines in Chicago.

This is like comparing the German autobahn with dirt roads in Mississippi.

:rofl:

Paris has a big commuter train system.(without subway)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5584/mapidf0kg.gif

and bigger map

http://idf.sncf.fr/FR/carte/img/MapIdf.gif

Paris has a big commuter train system.(without subway)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5584/mapidf0kg.gif

and bigger map

http://idf.sncf.fr/FR/carte/img/MapIdf.gif
CLEARLY Chicago beats that.

:rofl: :jk:

Oh, but are you kidding me! Glasgow is comparable to Chicago? After looking at the pdf map, it has nowhere near the commuter network system in Chicago!
Not even the CTA!

Can you still show us some London commuter network at least? :) :cheers:
Tokyo has definitely largest commuter network, but i have no data. Osaka is not small as well.

London (probably world's second biggest, depend on osaka. 4,7thous km. probably not full map.)
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/print_maps/LC_Jan_x06.pdf

Moscow (between 3rd and 5th depend on new york, osaka and spb - 3,5thous km.)
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/2720/prigorodny20029nb.gif

CLEARLY Chicago beats that.

:rofl: :jk:

It's ironic.

that

http://www.clanmacleodusa.org/metra-system-map04-2003.gif

beat this

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5584/mapidf0kg.gif

London tube map

https://www.ticketsto.com/london-tube-map.jpg

London rail + tube map

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/controlmaster/london-rail-map.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/images/lon_con.jpg

Paris metro map

http://www.frenchculture.com/images/metro_map.gif

Compare the rolling stock of trains in Chicago to Tokyo... its like comparing past and future.

http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/Chicago04/METX102.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5404/s523oj.jpg

If Tokyo is number 1 then surely Osaka is number 2. Osaka also has many private railways, Hanshin, Hankyu, Kintetsu being the larger ones.

If anyone has been to Chicago then it is a freight version of Tokyo's passenger system. There are mile long trains slowly moving around the metro area at all times of the day.

New York has very little freight as it is concentrated around Newark and the area container ports. Most of the commuter traffic into New York is provided by the Lon Island Railroad. Much of New Jersey Transit's traffic terminates in Jersey City at the Lackawanna Terminal.
The LIRR is the largest commuter rail system in the area (and in North America), but it doesn't provide "most" of the service.
It handles about 40% of the 850,000 daily commuter rail riders in the NY area and it serves 124 stations, out of 398 in the NY area. (Metro North handles about 32% and NJT about 28%)
Also, most of NJT trains terminate in Penn Station, and more will do so once they build the new tunnel to supplement the current tunnel, which is at capacity.)
The trains that terminate in Hoboken are mostly trains from the two diesel-only lines that serves Bergen, Rockland and Orange Counties. (btw, it hasn't been called the Lackwanna terminal in 40 years, and it's located in Hoboken, not Jersey City.)

That said, in no way do I believe NY is the railroad capital of the world, probably of the US and North America, but not the world, that's Tokyo.

Railyard size is a very poor indicator of wether a city is the "railroad capital of the world" btw. Freight requires far more yard space because the trains are stored in the yard for longer periods of times, and freight yards have to be concentrated at the destinations. Transit systems tend to have their yards near the terminus of the lines, and in many cities the lines don't terminate in the city.

The best criteria IMO would be traffic volumes, ie train or car miles (regardless of wheter it's passenger or freight). And using that criteria, Tokyo wins easily over Chicago.

@sbarn. Comparing commuter rail to intercity rail is not a valid comparison. It would be better to post pictures of Tokyo's commuter rail stock for comparison. (Comparing the Shinkansen trains to Amtrak, which uses similar locomotives in most of the country, is valid though.)

^^ True. However, the rolling stock of Amtrak is similar to that of the Chicago commuter trains, if not the same. My point is that the train technology in Japan is far superior to that of the States. I was blown away on my visit.

http://www.ktransit.com/transit/Japan/Tokyo/Commuter/Photos/jr-cr-yamanote-tokyo-061003-01.jpg

Old-fashioned electric rolling stock :)

Express trains to Narita and such destinations are prettier.

old train

http://www.ktransit.com/transit/Japan/Tokyo/Commuter/Photos/jr-cr-yamanote-tokyo-061003-01.jpg

new train

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~carterfd/Images/NB%20Yamanote%20line%20train.jpg

Does Yamanote have the new trains too now?

Paris commuter train and RER train

trains are old but renovated.


http://metro.free.fr/big/402.jpg
http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04357.jpg

http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04341.jpg
http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04377.jpg
http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04375.jpg

http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04352.jpg
http://tom45.free.fr/tecno/Dcp04363.jpg

http://home.m04.itscom.net/sncf/images/cf_europe/z20900_javel.jpg

Train renovated soon in service
http://www.metro-pole.net/actu/IMG/jpg/4729-ms61-entier2646.jpg

Unlike US, we have huge territory to lay tracks to connecting every major cities so the distances are way greater than that of europeans and japanese. That explains why people loves driving and taking the airplanes!
You are right on this point: if you except some corridors like Chicago-Detroit-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec, Boston-NYC-Philadelphia-DC, LA-SFO or Dallas-Houston HSR can't be a good solution vs Airplanes. It's generally admitted in Europe that HSR can get 50% of air passengers if the time to travel is less than 3 hours (like Paris-Marseille or Paris-London for exemple) for business passengers and less than 4h30 for tourists.

For countries like USA, Canada and Mexico, some magnetic vehicules like Transrapid or Maglev (I don't talk about Swissmetro: it would be too expensive) could be a better solution.

Paris has a big commuter train system.(without subway)

Yes, but there is less and less freight train thanks to SNCF policy.
Luckily, 6 new freight companies will arrive soon.

You are right on this point: if you except some corridors like Chicago-Detroit-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec, Boston-NYC-Philadelphia-DC, LA-SFO or Dallas-Houston HSR can't be a good solution vs Airplanes. It's generally admitted in Europe that HSR can get 50% of air passengers if the time to travel is less than 3 hours (like Paris-Marseille or Paris-London for exemple) for business passengers and less than 4h30 for tourists.

For countries like USA, Canada and Mexico, some magnetic vehicules like Transrapid or Maglev (I don't talk about Swissmetro: it would be too expensive) could be a better solution.
Depends like you said.

I think we need to have five HSR rail centers and should be able to support traffic comfortably:

1) Northeast, Richmond to Boston via DC and New York
2) Midwest, hub of Chicago
3) Texas
4) Florida
5) California

Aside from these I would not support maglev because at that point the distances are already far enough to make air the only really viable form of transport.

DC is only about 700 km by rail from Boston. If there was a high speed rail line that could do the trip in 3 hours, it would make Amtrak OODLES of money.

About map comparisons: this one will make everybody all right

http://www.mkc-properties.com/images/livinginjapan/tokyometromapbig.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/a/ae/Shinkansen_S500_kyoutei.jpg

More up-to-date maps of London's heavy rail network. The first is city proper, the second is the metro area (except for a few outlying areas).....








http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/8034/londoncityrailmap20061pm.jpg








http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/3884/londonmetrorailmap20065kq.jpg

Unlike US, we have huge territory to lay tracks to connecting every major cities so the distances are way greater than that of europeans and japanese. That explains why people loves driving and taking the airplanes!
What about Russia or China?

Besides, cars are much slower than trains. If there was a Shinkansen to Dallas, I would very much prefer it. Flying wastes far too much time on the ground.

I totally agree, entho, chicago completely dominant in the freight area, just look at how many monsterous railroad yards that are sprawning around its industrial and aiports surroundings(just google satellite chicago and you would easily find 5 of them since they are so huge).
Where in the world can you find that many huge railroad yards in a city?
I would say chicago is easily the worlds freight/industrial/livestock railroad capital!
However, to be the complete railroad capital of the world, it also has to have the dominant in the passenger area as well and this is where chicago fall short! So I would think that it is certainly a good race between Tokyo and London. But overall, we have to see which city is the true capital of the railroad! :) :cheers:


Did you look Paris? It seems that rail yards are quite big and more numerous than Chicago.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.930761,2.451797&spn=0.013392,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.907185,2.35867&spn=0.013399,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.950408,2.353649&spn=0.013387,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.939331,2.29022&spn=0.01339,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.873325,2.613587&spn=0.013408,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.89892,2.418795&spn=0.013401,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.895731,2.457333&spn=0.013402,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.897509,2.427721&spn=0.013401,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.825797,2.392101&spn=0.01342,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.785746,2.410212&spn=0.013431,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.725822,2.262325&spn=0.013447,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.805507,2.304769&spn=0.013426,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.771832,2.440681&spn=0.013435,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.758452,2.450981&spn=0.013438,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.74555,2.443771&spn=0.013442,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.698071,2.390685&spn=0.013455,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.591426,2.295113&spn=0.013483,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.762186,2.472911&spn=0.013437,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.780826,2.493553&spn=0.013432,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.767278,1.982861&spn=0.013436,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.867933,2.610025&spn=0.026818,0.086517

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.755241,2.356353&spn=0.00672,0.021629

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.896804,2.228422&spn=0.006701,0.021629

NEW YORK CITY??? CHICAGO????

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAA

FOR GOD'S SAKE, NYC AND CHICAGO'S SUBWAY SYSTEMS ARE VERY VAST AND COVER IMPORTANT AREAS OF THE CITY BUT ONCE U GO INTO THE SUBURBS WHAT?

SOME HERE SEEM TO BE THINKING SUBWAY = RAILWAY SYSTEM

TOKYO, LONDON, PARIS, MOSCOW HAVE BY FAR BETTER RAILWAY SYSTEMS THAN NYC, CHICAGO OR ANY AMERICAN CITY

ive said it before, and ill say it again, chicago does not deserve to be even mentioned in the same frame as the way this thread has turned out ( the biggest railroad cities), we are talking about kings, and chicago is just too small imo. this is just fact, sorry.

Many people are misinformed about the topic of discussion. Once again, I cannot overemphasize how many people are actually unaware of how similar the glossy Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, etc. are to diesel-electric locomotives. They simply know nothing about the subject.

I have gathered a bit of info about Chicago:

Inflow + outflow tonnage, annum 2002: 223.8 million tons
(source: FHWA Freight Analysis Framework)

Only gateway where all six Class-One North American railroads can interchange traffic
50% of U.S. rail freight passes through Chicago's rail yards
500 freight trains and 37,500 carloads of rail freight leave Chicago each day
(i.e., 2.5+ million tons)
Chicagoland is the leading intermodal container handler in the Western Hemisphere, with more than twice the volume of Los Angeles and more than five times that of New York
(source: http://www.worldbusinesschicago.com/whychi/landscape/trans_dist.asp)

What are the freight numbers / commuter stats for Tokyo or Paris? We have to gather up this information before people make opinionated and shallow statements claiming to be "fact."

well sorry then, but the guy who started this thread just asked about other cities commuter maps / info. so perhaps this thread was confused from the outset?

Many people are misinformed about the topic of discussion. Once again, I cannot overemphasize how many people are actually unaware of how similar the glossy Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, etc. are to diesel-electric locomotives. They simply know nothing about the subject.

I have gathered a bit of info about Chicago:

Inflow + outflow tonnage, annum 2002: 223.8 million tons
(source: FHWA Freight Analysis Framework)

Only gateway where all six Class-One North American railroads can interchange traffic
50% of U.S. rail freight passes through Chicago's rail yards
500 freight trains and 37,500 carloads of rail freight leave Chicago each day
(i.e., 2.5+ million tons)
Chicagoland is the leading intermodal container handler in the Western Hemisphere, with more than twice the volume of Los Angeles and more than five times that of New York
(source: http://www.worldbusinesschicago.com/whychi/landscape/trans_dist.asp)

What are the freight numbers / commuter stats for Tokyo or Paris? We have to gather up this information before people make opinionated and shallow statements claiming to be "fact."
I stated Tokyo's commuter stats to be 13 billion passenger-rides annually.

That averages out to 36 million passenger-rides per day. Which is I believe more than the entire United States combined.

NEW YORK CITY??? CHICAGO????

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAA

FOR GOD'S SAKE, NYC AND CHICAGO'S SUBWAY SYSTEMS ARE VERY VAST AND COVER IMPORTANT AREAS OF THE CITY BUT ONCE U GO INTO THE SUBURBS WHAT?

SOME HERE SEEM TO BE THINKING SUBWAY = RAILWAY SYSTEM

TOKYO, LONDON, PARIS, MOSCOW HAVE BY FAR BETTER RAILWAY SYSTEMS THAN NYC, CHICAGO OR ANY AMERICAN CITY
That why rail goes into the suburbs.

:crazy:

how similar the glossy Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, etc. are to diesel-electric locomotives.
All credibility just went flying out the window.

well sorry then, but the guy who started this thread just asked about other cities commuter maps / info. so perhaps this thread was confused from the outset?

I am sorry, but don't put your words in my mouth, I never say ONLY commuter maps,lol!
I said, all the railroad related info like commuter and freight info of the cities that you think has the potential to be railroad capital!

You need to go back and read every page before you come here and feel confused! :bash: :sleepy:

Compare the rolling stock of trains in Chicago to Tokyo... its like comparing past and future.

http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/Chicago04/METX102.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5404/s523oj.jpg

The reason why there is such a difference between the two is simple, investment in new technology in the two countries is going where the most demand is and the most money can be made.

Many people are misinformed about the topic of discussion. Once again, I cannot overemphasize how many people are actually unaware of how similar the glossy Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, etc. are to diesel-electric locomotives. They simply know nothing about the subject.

I have gathered a bit of info about Chicago:

Inflow + outflow tonnage, annum 2002: 223.8 million tons
(source: FHWA Freight Analysis Framework)

Only gateway where all six Class-One North American railroads can interchange traffic
50% of U.S. rail freight passes through Chicago's rail yards
500 freight trains and 37,500 carloads of rail freight leave Chicago each day
(i.e., 2.5+ million tons)
Chicagoland is the leading intermodal container handler in the Western Hemisphere, with more than twice the volume of Los Angeles and more than five times that of New York
(source: http://www.worldbusinesschicago.com/whychi/landscape/trans_dist.asp)

What are the freight numbers / commuter stats for Tokyo or Paris? We have to gather up this information before people make opinionated and shallow statements claiming to be "fact."


Thanks for your great info again, Facial!
As you can see, freight for american just as important as the commuter to japanese. Americans are big consumers and what better, cheaper and safer way to bring tons and tons of comsumer products near you than utilizing our freight rail network. For us the American, we think railroad isn't just merely making up by commuting rails, the freight rail part of integral just as important if not vital for our economy and infrastrctures.
Once again, you can show us how congestive, intensive, much passengers handle, how much faster the commuter technology is right....and then trying to omit the freight part of railroad.
At the end of day, the only real "Railroad capital of the world" is the city/cities that has fully utilized BOTH(commuter & freight rails) day in and day out.

All of info for each candidates that I have seem so far. Sum it up:
Chicago-commuter & freight(Freight being the complete dominant while commuter rail isn't far behind)

Paris-commuter & freight(Thanks for the google satillite links, I think that it also has huge emphasis on both area as well)

Tokyo-commuter(I would think that it is easily the "commuter" capital of the world)

London-commuter(I seem some of its commuter map and it also has complex commuter system)

What I am still waiting for are the freight rails related info, pics and satellite shots that can prove the candidates aren't just commuter oriented but also has good fair amount of freight oriented network. Hopeful, we can all come to a final educated result! :) :cheers:

I stated Tokyo's commuter stats to be 13 billion passenger-rides annually.

That averages out to 36 million passenger-rides per day. Which is I believe more than the entire United States combined.

Hey, Jue, I don't think that anyone here has any doubts about the ridership of Tokyo is most in the world. Try telling us the annual tonnages or any freight realated info of Tokyo, then that will be hlep, thanks! :)

The final educated result is Tokyo. As pretty much 9 out of 10 forumers in this thread have been saying. ;)

Note how you are the only harping on Sattelite imaging. :crazy: moving a couple dozen million people while at the same time moving freight in your metropolitan area clearly creams the third world un-electirifed network surrounding Chicago.

CLEARLY.

^^^
Once again, DonQui... You has not been very helpful in this subject of matter. :sleepy:

Oh, btw, DonQui, I encourage you to make a thread on "commuter rail capital of the world". That way, you can say Tokyo all you want and no one will CLEARLY disagree with you, HOW ABOUT THAT? LOL :)

Donqui...there's nothing "third-world" about Chicago's transport system--it's not the best, but it gets the job done.

But Chicagoskyline, for the sake of Chicago and all its forumers, cease and desist!

For God's sake...

Donqui...there's nothing "third-world" about Chicago's transport system--it's not the best, but it does a pretty good job.

But Chicagoskyline, for the sake of Chicago and all its forumers, cease and desist!

For God's sake...

No problem pottebaum! :)
But I certainly don't mine learning something that I don't already know about in railroad particulary in freight rail around the world. As matter of fact, I love to compare more on Chicago with Paris!

It's ironic.

that

http://www.clanmacleodusa.org/metra-system-map04-2003.gif

beat this

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5584/mapidf0kg.gif

Looking at the map says nothing. What scale is used for the Paris map?
First, updated map:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7990/systemmap2006working8yg.gif

That is for METRA, a suburban, exurban commuter rail system. Obviously American suburbs are quite different than Parisian suburbs.

For example, see that little tiny "Harvard" station in the purple section in the upper left? That is 60 miles away from downtown Chicago, no exaggeration.

^^^
Thanks spyguy, he picked out one of chicago's Metra commuter raill map that run between metro and suburbs to dramatized the complexity of paris metro rail network. Don't forget, when we zoom in just the Chicago metro alone with chicago's other metro rail network like CTA, Subway, L and Amtrak. It is likely to see even worst complexity in one commuter rail network map than that of paris. Obviously, for the clearity, chicago Metra doesn't like overlap all of its commuter rail network into one map.

Compare the rolling stock of trains in Chicago to Tokyo... its like comparing past and future.

http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/Chicago04/METX102.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5404/s523oj.jpg

Again, what kind of comparison is this? Comparing a suburban commuter train in Chicago to HSR Shinkansen for most of Japan? You should compare Amtrak or the failed Acela in the Northeast, not Metra.

I don't know the answer to the question (I'm not sure if it is asking about just passenger or also freight) but some of these comparisons are just way off.

Here: if looks are quite important to you

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5404/1321302967fc5e32dfc1on.jpg

To show you how diverse the area Metra covers is:
From urban
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3551/72237986688b19a3f40qz.jpg

To suburban
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2655/92894279e0c6dc93fe7nq.jpg

To this
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1361/123534702d79baca9985qm.jpg

Here is Chicago CTA and Metra commuter rail network map for the "metro" of chicago(excluding Loop & suburbs)
http://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1999map-lowres.jpg

Again, what kind of comparison is this? Comparing a suburban commuter train in Chicago to HSR Shinkansen for most of Japan? You should compare Amtrak or the failed Acela in the Northeast, not Metra.

I don't know the answer to the question (I'm not sure if it is asking about just passenger or also freight) but some of these comparisons are just way off.

You are right!
I don't know why they using REAL chicago's metro- suburban of Metra(BTW, this picture is OLD!) and compare it to the DIGITAL DRAWING of HSR Shinkansen of Japan??? When they should compare Amtrak or as you said the NE of Acela! I am also confused as well

Anyway, I have already say many times that "railroad" = commuter + freight and the city/cities that fully utilized both has the chance for the railroad capital title....pretty str8 forward. :)

^Chicagoskyline, you do realize that Chicago's rail network is not as impressive as Tokyo's, right? Just 'yes' or 'no', please.

I love Chi-town to death, but I think a clear answer would help the city (and yourself) avoid any further bashing in this thread...

^Chicagoskyline, you do realize that Chicago's rail network is not as impressive as Tokyo's, right? Just 'yes' or 'no', please.

I love Chi-town to death, but I think a clear answer would help the city (and yourself) avoid any further bashing in this thread...


I already said so many times! Tokyo is without the doubt "commuter rail" capital of the world! So 'yes" its commuter railroad network is very impressive.

BUT, no one has show me the Tokyo's freight rail network which Chicago and Paris are the only two that I have seem so far from this thread, btw, I am starting to think that Paris could be the Railroad capital of the world(after seeing its satellite which showing very active freight rail yards that are surrouning its metro) and same as Chicago which both also have very active commuter rail networks!

Look at the title of this thread and tell me that this is for commuter rail alone please?

Did you look Paris? It seems that rail yards are quite big and more numerous than Chicago.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.930761,2.451797&spn=0.013392,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.907185,2.35867&spn=0.013399,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.950408,2.353649&spn=0.013387,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.939331,2.29022&spn=0.01339,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.873325,2.613587&spn=0.013408,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.89892,2.418795&spn=0.013401,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.895731,2.457333&spn=0.013402,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.897509,2.427721&spn=0.013401,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.825797,2.392101&spn=0.01342,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.785746,2.410212&spn=0.013431,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.725822,2.262325&spn=0.013447,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.805507,2.304769&spn=0.013426,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.771832,2.440681&spn=0.013435,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.758452,2.450981&spn=0.013438,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.74555,2.443771&spn=0.013442,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.698071,2.390685&spn=0.013455,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.591426,2.295113&spn=0.013483,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.762186,2.472911&spn=0.013437,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.780826,2.493553&spn=0.013432,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.767278,1.982861&spn=0.013436,0.043259

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.867933,2.610025&spn=0.026818,0.086517

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.755241,2.356353&spn=0.00672,0.021629

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=paris&t=k&om=0&ll=48.896804,2.228422&spn=0.006701,0.021629

and also....
Some of the chicago's largest freight railroad yards from satellites, of course there are alot more classification and hump rail yards around Chicago metro:
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.758508,-87.761021&spn=0.06377,0.11673
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.899051,-87.908735&spn=0.015908,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.945447,-87.89968&spn=0.015896,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=0&ll=41.644408,-87.651114&spn=0.015971,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182
http://maps.google.com/?t=k&om=1&ll=41.573912,-87.655578&spn=0.015988,0.029182


After seeing some Paris freight classification yards and some Paris commuter rail network map. I am indeed very impress with how Paris has emphasised on its railroad infrastructure. It really can be side by side compare with Chicago's railroad network! :)

Top rank cities closely related to "railroad captial of the world" thus far:
Paris & Chicago

Tokyo seems very likely to be the "rail capital of the world" regardless of the lack of freight yards (what an odd way to measure significance) or even freight. The sheer amount of passengers that the system can handle is amazing.

Other cities with nice rail systems and high usage (from what it looks like on this thread so far): Paris, Moscow, London, New York, and Chicago.

However, this topic seems very specific (and biased), as if there can only be one (or maybe two) candidate cities for the title of "railroad capital". Efficiency of the whole system should be factored in (although it may be a bit harder to measure), not just "how many freight rail yards you can see on a satellite map".

Tokyo seems very likely to be the "rail capital of the world" regardless of the lack of freight yards (what an odd way to measure significance) or even freight. The sheer amount of passengers that the system can handle is amazing.

Other cities with nice rail systems and high usage (from what it looks like on this thread so far): Paris, Moscow, London, New York, and Chicago.

However, this topic seems very specific (and biased), as if there can only be one (or maybe two) candidate cities for the title of "railroad capital". Efficiency of the whole system should be factored in (although it may be a bit harder to measure), not just "how many freight rail yards you can see on a satellite map".

Well, I never say "how many freight rail yards you can see on a satellite map" is the only option of showing active freight rail network, it does indeed direct and stright to the point, but you also have many options like the stats and map of freight network...ect. The reason that I like satellite shots to see the freight rail activities is because freight yards are quite large and distinguish for a railroad cities even from the satellite. Of course, the info on freight rail like annual tonnages handle, how many freight hubs(companies) in the cities, # of large classification/hump yards in the metro, # of cars handle in one day, % of freight loads for the country, mileage of tracks....etc! You get the point.
BTW, I never say the capital can only be two cities, it can be only one if it is distinguis enough with its impressive commuter network while maintain super active freight network. So far, I only see Chicago and Paris, but certainly if there are more cities that are both commuter and freight railroad oriented, then they are all very good candidate for the railroad capital of the world! :)

It is pointless to compare passenger train systems with freight train systems. Passenger train systems and freight train systems are two different things.

Passenger train systems serve locally. Even with HSR, probably 700km is probably the maximum distance which people are willing to travel in a day. Most of usage of passenger train systems happens in downtown and its suburbs. Passenger train systems serve for cities and metros. In any metro areas with high concentration of population, passenger train systems can develop extensively. Typical examples are Tokyo and London.

On the contrary, freight train systems serve nationally. Many different products are produced in many different regions unevenly. Freights need to be transported to many different places domestically or even internationally. Unlike people, freights do not complain about one week train rides. Freights can travel 3000km easily. Therefore freight train systems serve for the whole country (or even internationally). As I said before, freight train system usage measured by ton-kilo is the highest in the big nations such as USA, China, Russia, or EU area. The reason is simple. In these nations with large land sizes, people need to transport goods and commodities for long distances inside big continents. In the case of USA, there seems to be many freight train yards in the vicinity of Chicago because Chicago is located at the geological center of USA and functions as the big hub of freight transportation system serving for USA. In the case of EU area, many big and middle-sized cities with sizable amount of freight train yards are spread out to everywhere. However, this does not mean that this kind of freight systems is inferior to the system with one city functioning as a main hub as in the case of Chicago in USA. I don't know how freight transportation systems in China and Russia exactly work. Moscow, Shanghai, or any other cities might be functioning as big hubs of national freight transportation system. Or most of big freight yards might be spread out to many satellite industrial cities more or less evenly. Overall I think that US freight train transportation system seems to be the most extensive.

Conclusions:
1. Tokyo has the most extensive passenger train systems. The second should be London. Paris should be the third.
2. USA has the most extensive freight train systems (Chicago is its main hub). China, Russia, and the EU area also have good systems.

Frankly I don't like the usage of words like 'Railroad capital of the world'. However, if I am forced to choose one city which has a good transportation system and functions as one of main hubs of freight transportation systems with sizable volumes, Paris is the one. Tokyo is too weak in freight railway transportation. Chicago is too weak in passenger railway transportation. Then do I think that Paris is the railroad capital of the world? Hell!! No!! It is childish to label one city with the name like 'railroad capital of the world'. Nobody in academic fields will use this kind of phrases. We stopped threads like 'city vs. city' or whatever because of this kind of nonsense.

An example of meaningful discussions are much more like 'How should the transportation system, both passenger and freight, be modified in the era of oil shortage?"

All credibility just went flying out the window.

How? I can tell you how they are similar.

Do I take this as a challenge?

I stated Tokyo's commuter stats to be 13 billion passenger-rides annually.

Which is questionable. I suspected from the following stats

SUBWAYS WITH THE MOST STATIONS
1. New York has 468.
2. Paris, France has 368.
3. London, UK has 270.
4. Tokyo, Japan has 217.
5. Moscow, Russia has 140.

(Source: Guinness World Records)

that Japan has a slightly higher passenger ridership per annum than New York, assuming that its density and dependence on mass transit far out-compensates what New York has in extension.

I suppose that this

Top 10 in terms of annual passenger rides

Moscow 3.2 billion
Tokyo 2.7 billion
Seoul 1.6 billion
Mexico City 1.3 billion
New York City 1.3 billion
Paris 1.2 billion
Osaka 957 million
London 886 million (4.6 billion miles)
Hong Kong 798 million
St. Petersburg 784 million
(Source: Wikipedia)

somewhat enhances the validity of my scepticism.

In addition, I would like to point out that

"CTA carries over 1.5 million customers a day"
(source: Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) website)

which translates to roughly 500 million passengers a year. Still comparable to the list above. It is lower than Tokyo by a factor of around 6, but I still need to see Tokyo freight statistics.

It is pointless to compare passenger train systems with freight train systems. Passenger train systems and freight train systems are two different things.

Passenger train systems serve locally. Even with HSR, probably 700km is probably the maximum distance which people are willing to travel in a day. Most of usage of passenger train systems happens in downtown and its suburbs. Passenger train systems serve for cities and metros. In any metro areas with high concentration of population, passenger train systems can develop extensively. Typical examples are Tokyo and London.

On the contrary, freight train systems serve nationally. Many different products are produced in many different regions unevenly. Freights need to be transported to many different places domestically or even internationally. Unlike people, freights do not complain about one week train rides. Freights can travel 3000km easily. Therefore freight train systems serve for the whole country (or even internationally). As I said before, freight train system usage measured by ton-kilo is the highest in the big nations such as USA, China, Russia, or EU area. The reason is simple. In these nations with large land sizes, people need to transport goods and commodities for long distances inside big continents. In the case of USA, there seems to be many freight train yards in the vicinity of Chicago because Chicago is located at the geological center of USA and functions as the big hub of freight transportation system serving for USA. In the case of EU area, many big and middle-sized cities with sizable amount of freight train yards are spread out to everywhere. However, this does not mean that this kind of freight systems is inferior to the system with one city functioning as a main hub as in the case of Chicago in USA. I don't know how freight transportation systems in China and Russia exactly work. Moscow, Shanghai, or any other cities might be functioning as big hubs of national freight transportation system. Or most of big freight yards might be spread out to many satellite industrial cities more or less evenly. Overall I think that US freight train transportation system seems to be the most extensive.

Conclusions:
1. Tokyo has the most extensive passenger train systems. The second should be London. Paris should be the third.
2. USA has the most extensive freight train systems (Chicago is its main hub). China, Russia, and the EU area also have good systems.

Frankly I don't like the usage of words like 'Railroad capital of the world'. However, if I am forced to choose one city which has a good transportation system and functions as one of main hubs of freight transportation systems with sizable volumes, Paris is the one. Tokyo is too weak in freight railway transportation. Chicago is too weak in passenger railway transportation. Then do I think that Paris is the railroad capital of the world? Hell!! No!! It is childish to label one city with the name like 'railroad capital of the world'. Nobody in academic fields will use this kind of phrases. We stopped threads like 'city vs. city' or whatever because of this kind of nonsense.

An example of meaningful discussions are much more like 'How should the transportation system, both passenger and freight, be modified in the era of oil shortage?"

I completely agree.

In Tokyo and Japan railfreight isn't as big as in the USA and Europe. This is because of the geographycal situation of Japan. Most of the major cities and industrial sites are located on the coast. Coastal shiping amounts for 40% off all freight, Railfreight has a share of only 4% and is still declining. The rest is transported by road. In the USA railfreight has the largest share with 40% of total freight transported. In Europe the road has the highest share.

For railfreight you don't want to go to Japan.

Which is questionable. I suspected from the following stats

that Japan has a slightly higher passenger ridership per annum than New York, assuming that its density and dependence on mass transit far out-compensates what New York has in extension.

I suppose that this

somewhat enhances the validity of my scepticism.

In addition, I would like to point out that

which translates to roughly 500 million passengers a year. Still comparable to the list above. It is lower than Tokyo by a factor of around 6, but I still need to see Tokyo freight statistics.
Your analysis is based on comparison, but you cannot compare Japan with other countries regarding rail usage. Also, unlike western cities, Tokyo has few subway lines compared to surface lines. The Wikipedia page only states subway ridership, which comprises a disproportionate number of American or European riders. By the way, the Wiki article has no citations. I would not trust it.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-rs-tok.htm

40 million riders per day translates into 14.6 billion per year, which is even higher than my original source, which I have trouble finding.

If you are curious, check the base source. I doubt Jane's would be unreliable.

http://www.johomaps.com/as/japan/tokyo/tokyo2.jpg

Look at this map again. Only the solid coloured lines are subways. They make up less than 1/4 of the total network.

Chicago has around 150 million riders a year. That's chump change compared to Tokyo.

Tokyo for sure, have you seen rush hour their..christ, it aint nice.

P.

^^

Metro in Japan (http://www.ondmis.dk/video/pakket.htm) ;)

^^^Tokyo subway ridership is incredible, yep it is like changes to chicago,lol! :)

Chicago has around 150 million riders a year. That's chump change compared to Tokyo.
Anyway, who rides subway in chicago anyway,lol?
:jk:

@Jue
I suppose it is metro + commuter rail? Because I remember figure in 2,7bln passengers per year in Tokyo metro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_10_rail_systems_in_terms_of_annual_passenger_rides

How do the numbers make sense?

In the USA railfreight has the largest share with 40% of total freight transported.

From the looks of the FHWA webpage I am led to believe otherwise - that trucking actually makes up the majority of freight carried within the US. Do you have a source for this 40% figure?

Paris metro 1.336 billions passengers in 2004
Paris RER RATP ligne A B D 582.9 million passengers in 2004
Paris RER SNCF line C and E 200 million passengers in 2004
Orly Val RATP 2.5 million passengers in 2004
Transillien SNCF (commuter train) 572.3 million passengers in 2003 (sorry I don't found for 2004)

2693.7 million passengers ( this number is wrong because I don't found Transillien 2004 stat but but it is surely similar)

It's only urban and suburban traffic.

National and international traffic are important in Paris.

Paris metro 1.336 billions passengers in 2004
Paris RER RATP ligne A B D 582.9 million passengers in 2004
Paris RER SNCF line C and E 200 million passengers in 2004

- line D is SNCF even between Gare de Lyon and Gare du Nord.
- line A is RATP except between Nanterre and Cergy/Poissy (SNCF)
- line B is RATP in the south and SNCF in the north. The change is made at Gare du Nord.

@Facial
i would not refer to guinness. they does not updating their figures.

still if talking about metro statisctics. here some accumulation.


London. 408km
New York. 368km.
Tokyo. 290km
Seoul. 287km.
Moscow. 278km.
Madrid. 227km
Paris. 213km.


New York. 416 stations.
Paris. can't find.
London. 275 stations.
Tokyo. 267 stations.
Madrid. 190 stations.
Mexico City. 175 stations.
Moscow. 171 stations.

From the looks of the FHWA webpage I am led to believe otherwise - that trucking actually makes up the majority of freight carried within the US. Do you have a source for this 40% figure?

I found it here (http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cove/5750/raildata.html), but that was only one unclear source.
But I looked more and found this page (http://www.bts.gov/publications/freight_in_america/html/table_01.html) from the USA Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BSA) And there you can see that rail only has a 10% share but when it comes to Ton-Miles ( A unit of freight transportation equivalent to a ton of freight moved one mile) rail has a 31.4% share.

At 7.7 million passengers daily, Tokyo's subway (Tokyo metro + Toei) carries only about 21% of Tokyo's metropolitan area total ridership, which is in the region of 36 million. So comparisons based on subway figures are basicly useless.

http://www.train-media.net/report/0511/joukou_2004.pdf

Listen to Vapour, he actually lives there. :lol:

Tokyo's subway system has far fewer stations than western counterparts in the first place. Yes, that 36-40 million figure includes surface rail.

@Facial
i would not refer to guinness. they does not updating their figures.

still if talking about metro statisctics. here some accumulation.


London. 408km
New York. 368km.
Tokyo. 290km
Seoul. 287km.
Moscow. 278km.
Madrid. 227km
Paris. 213km.



wrong.

Unlike the other big cities, Tokyo's meto system has the mutual entries with other railway companies as a feature.

Thus, Tokyo metro network is:
Tokyo metros (13 lines): 292.3km
metro's through service sections (20 lines): 575.3km

TOTAL: 867.6km

by far the largest metro network in the world

^^ Technically London does as well, but that only complicates matters and dilutes the actual figures. London like Tokyo has within the city limits a larger number of lines and stations on commuter lines than on underground lines. This isn't the case in say Paris or New York. In total there is around 1,200km of heavy rail lines (route km not track km) within the political boundaries of London and I believe there is some 7,500km (inc London, East & South-East metro area I think) of heavy rail in the metro area. Below Tokyo I think, but definately the second largest heavy rail network on the planet.




I can't think of many rail-yards in London as most tend to be in vast sheds like this one at Stratford:

http://www.*******************/photography/london/fullsize/stratford/Stratford%20Depot%2018.JPG

http://www.*******************/photography/london/fullsize/stratford/Stratford%20Depot%2017.JPG

or there are just bucketloads of these (next door to the above in-door sidings)

http://www.*******************/photography/london/fullsize/stratford/Stratford%20Depot%2019.JPG


There are a few sidings through the city, but the system is simply so vast that its impossible to actually think of all of them off the top of my head and most tend to be distributed along the lines, ie instead of a massive yard, you could have 5 tracks, 2 for express, 2 for local and another used as sidings (eg Clapham Junction-Woking). I think there are one or two mega yards, but freight tends to just go through the city on the same commuter lines around the city.

Listen to Vapour, he actually lives there. :lol:

Tokyo's subway system has far fewer stations than western counterparts in the first place. Yes, that 36-40 million figure includes surface rail.

Now, that is about right,lol!
Thanks for all the fun stats for comparison guys, really interesting!
:)

duplicate images! :)

You know, showing the same picture 5 times does not change Tokyo's superiority. ;)

You know, showing the same picture 5 times does not change Tokyo's superiority. ;)

Thanks donqui!
Anyway, I never get tired of look at some Tokyo's superiority, keep em comming! :runaway: :cheers: :)

^^^
BTW, donqui, you not happen to be one of the secret riders being process in our chicago classification yards,LOL? SHHH, I won't tell :)

^^^
BTW, donqui, you not happen to be one of the secret riders being process in our chicago classification yards,LOL? SHHH, I won't tell :)
I consider this an offensive and racist remark that will be reported to the mods immediately.

You ******.

I consider this an offensive and racist remark that will be reported to the mods immediately.

You ******.

Go right ahead, if that makes your Supriority Tokyo feels better! :)

^^^
Go right ahead, if that makes your Supriority Tokyo feels better! :)
Done.

You have crossed the line.

And you need to quit being deluded and actually read other people's posts to realize how retarded your argumentation is. Notice how I say "argumentation" and not "you" (although after your racist little post, I ought to be calling you such) because unlike you, I understand the rules of the forum and have respect for other forumers.

And just as a side note, you are talking to a an Ivy-league educated graduate student, so eat my shit. :)

PS: What are you even trying to say with this post?

"Go right ahead, if that makes your feelings of Tokyo's superiority feel better!"

Even corrected it does not make any sense! :crazy:

Done.

You have crossed the line.

And you need to quit being diluded and actually read other people's posts to realize how retarded your argumentation is. Notice how I say "argumentation" and not "you" (although after your racist little post, I ought to be calling you such) because unlike you, I understand the rules of the forum and have respect for other forumers.

And just as a side note, you are talking to a an Ivy-league educated graduate student, so eat my shit. :)

I never try to crossed the line with you bud! You are here, because you were never intended to learn and understand what we are trying to do here. Just go back to posts and you will see that you are the only one here saying like Tokyo is the king. PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.

You are the one here continuing to talk with superiority and ignorance without much consideration to other contributors to this particular thread.
LOL, if you understand the rules of the forum, then you wouldn't be here picking out on someone who is trying to bring out the topic at hand. Come on, of all these post, just see how many posts that you have contributed here consider "productive" and argumentative!

LOL, if I am talking to an ivy-league prick then you really ought to change you attitude and stop being an smart one. I wouldn't want to eat yours,lol! :sleepy:

I never try to crossed the line with you bud! You are here, because you were never intended to learn and understand what we are trying to do here. Just go back to posts and you will see that you are the only one here saying like Tokyo is the king. PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.

You are the one here continuing to talk with supriority and ignorance without much consideration to other contributors to this particular thread.
LOL, if you understand the rules of the forum, then you wouldn't be here picking out on someone who is trying to bring out the topic at hand. Come on, of all these post, just see how many posts that you have contributed here consider "productive" and argumentative!

LOL, if I am talking to an ivy-league prick then you really ought to change you attitude and stop being an smart one. I wouldn't want to eat yours,lol! :sleepy:
First I recommend a greater proficiency in the English language prior to posting. Half your sentences are utterly riddled with grammatical errors that my youngest sister could probably correctly avoid.

You had NO right to make that racist comment. NONE WHATSOEVER.

And you are the one who is making silly arguments that Chicago non-electrified diesel network pulled by 30 year old diesel engines is comparable to the advanced technological network of Tokyo.

So frankly there is no point in proving. People have shown you the requisite facts, and you still are trying to make the argument that Chicao and Tokyo are comparable.

THEY ARE NOT!

First I recommend a greater proficiency in the English language prior to posting. Half your sentences are utterly riddled with grammatical errors that my youngest sister could probably correctly avoid.

You had NO right to make that racist comment. NONE WHATSOEVER.

And you are the one who is making silly arguments that Chicago non-electrified diesel network pulled by 30 year old diesel electric trains is comparable to the advanced technological network of Tokyo.

So frankly there is no point in proving. People have shown you the requisite facts, and you still are trying to make the argument that Chicao and Tokyo are comparable.

THEY ARE NOT!

There, you have just confirm your superiority at out discussion, finest reply at work!

BTW, please don't put your words in my mouth! I never say anything closely resemble to : "that Chicago non-electrified diesel network pulled by 30 year old diesel electric trains is comparable to the advanced technological network of Tokyo." Sounded pretty ignorant and egocentric from an ivy league, don't you think?

So please, tell me something real and that I don't already know about the topics at hand, then I will consider you as an productive with truthful argumentative ivy leaguer! :bash:

ChicagoSkyline, we had a good chat over in the highway thread, and it's a pity, but this thread has made me lose respect for you.

You started the thread more or less with the intent of being intransigent, and have done so ever since. Posting the same image multiple times does not prove any point, and indeed, you have been crying the same slogans the entire time. I had hoped you would be more intelligent than this. In fact, I should be biased against Tokyo - indeed, most Chinese are raised to hate Japan - but that did not stop me from being objective. We have requested you provide data on rail traffic counts, not just how many tons of commodities get shipped, yet you have not, simply insisting that rail yards somehow imply superiority.

There, you have just confirm your superiority at out discussion, finest reply at work!

BTW, please don't put your words in my mouth! I never say anything closely resemble to : "that Chicago non-electrified diesel network pulled by 30 year old diesel electric trains is comparable to the advanced technological network of Tokyo." Sounded pretty ignorant and egocentric from an ivy league, don't you think?

So please, tell me something real and that I don't already know about the topics at hand, then I will consider you as an productive with truthful argumentative ivy leaguer! :bash:
You never said that? Then why are you continuing your quixotic quest to show how Chicago can compete with Tokyo? :crazy:

And just for added benefit, I have decided to offer you corrections of your post.

There, you have just confirmed your superiority at out in ourdiscussion, finest reply at work!

BTW, please don't put your words in my mouth! I never saysaid anything closely resembleling : "that Chicago non-electrified diesel network pulled by 30 year old diesel electric trains is comparable to the advanced technological network of Tokyo." Sounded pretty ignorant and egocentric from an ivy leaguer("Ivy Leaguer" as a proper noun should be capitalized like any other name), don't you think?

So please, tell me something real and that I don't already know about the topics at hand, then I will consider you as an productive forumer and an with truthful argumentative ivy leaguerIvy Leaguer! :bash:

RED means that you should edit that part out, and BOLD means that's what you should have put instead. :)

ChicagoSkyline, we had a good chat over in the highway thread, and it's a pity, but this thread has made me lose respect for you.

You started the thread more or less with the intent of being intransigent, and have done so ever since. Posting the same image multiple times does not prove any point, and indeed, you have been crying the same slogans the entire time. I had hoped you would be more intelligent than this.

Ok, I am sorry, Jue!
If some of the duplicate images on railroad of chicago is being offensive then I will kindly remove them in considerate to one of our productive contributor to this thread. Peace!:)

You never said that? Then why are you continuing your quixotic quest to show how Chicago can compete with Tokyo? :crazy:

And just for added benefit, I have decided to offer you corrections of your post.



RED means that you should edit that part out, and BOLD means that's what you should have put instead. :)

Yes, I never say that! Me continue to show quest how chicago can compete with Tokyo? I already say it here so many times in prior replies that Chicago and Tokyo are totally two different cities with many different railroad infrastructures and networks. Try to compare Chicago railroad(freight) to Tokyo's(commuter) is pretty much like comparing apple to orange! Then after some knowledgeable and cooperative contributors here posting some useful and informative pictures, maps, satilltie images, stats, info, sources...ect. I said that Paris is probabily the railroad capital of the world thus far. Since it truly is utilizing BOTH, the commuter and freight rail into their railroad network infrastructure.

BTW, thanks for your effort NOW on justifing your work here by doing gramar checking and error picking! :)

Quoted from the JR Railway Shinkansen thread...

"Tsubasa" and "Komachi" trains connect to the "Yamabiko".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omiLaojQBMU

"Nozomi" operation from Hakata to Shin-Osaka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp0M8tnPP98

^^ These videos give a good idea of what the railroad infrastructure is like in Japan... nothing short of amazing. I highly recommend the "Nozomi" video.

Clearly the Shinkansen is not limited to Tokyo, but I think it illustrates the sophistication of railroads in Japan. If the U.S. had invested similar technological and financial capital into our railroads we would not be having this conversation. Clearly Japan's railroad system (anchored by Tokyo) is far superior to that which exists in the states.

@ ChicagoSkyline...

dude...you have single-handedly trashed this thread with you tired ass argument that chicago has the better rail system. get a clue because the facts prove otherwise..

secondly, and more important, is the next time you attack someones ethnicity, you're gone.

as for the thread:

http://www.oli.org/enewsletter/images/200502_trainwreck.jpg

:lock: