Hey guys and girls I would like to know what you would like to change in DT Tampa/ Channelside.

Extend the trolley so that it covers all of DT and the UT area, and runs twice as fast as it does now.

Sidewalk improvements. The Trolley extended and improved (not rubber wheeled trolley service). More park space.

What John said. and fill in the surface lots with development or parks before tearing down what is already there.

Awesome. I thought no one would reply to this. Do you guys have any dreams for skyscrapers to go in? If so, what?

I'd say extending the trolly to DT and develop parks in between DT and Channelside.

While I certainly agree with the posters above re: more park space and trolley line extension, my fear is that neither of these will happen for years and years.

The Trolley certainly seems to have it's share of vocal opponents from both the private and public sectors. With the new Art Museum, the proposed addition to the Aquarium, the History Museum, and the Riverwalk people all holding out their palms for contributions, I'm uncertain where the funding would come from for such an extension.

There are so many open parking lots south of Jackson and East of Florida downtown. I would love to see a park - more than just a city block - in this area. But with these lots already divided in private and government ownership, and developers clammoring for the next $400K-and-up luxury condo tower project, I'm having a hard time imagining how a city park could happen.

I would love to be proven wrong on both accounts...

The original streetcars were payed for by private industry

http://www.cigarsoftampa.com/eduardo-manrara.html

Yes make the trolley go up through downtown (in a loop). I mean Ybor to Channelside to DT and back to Ybor. Something like that.

Tear down the long hotel on Ashley at the river and replace it with a newer, more vetical hotel or hotel/condo or twin 25 story condos there.

Start more development on the west bank of the river but don't ruin the view of the minarets. After there is no more space at Channelside, start building massive condos at the "surface parking" areas of south DT.

I don't want to see a single Trolley line... I think you could do more with it...

The grand "Loop" concept in a finished Streetcar system doesn't utilize the system IMHO. You could have more criss crossing routes... But of course you need ridership and potential riders and what do we have in Tampa but a lot of drivers....

I think that the long hotel was just rennovated. Also, I like the park downtown, but I do not think it is big enough. I agree with the surface parking lots south of Gilligan's. I have been wondering why they could not add height for the surface parking lots to the BoA parking garage. I mean it is only ten stories high and I think it could be much more higher.

A park ala The Boston Commons running along either side of the Crosstown (enough space for development must be left on either side so the park doesn't face the Xtown) would be lovely. Maybe a block wide and three or four blocks long. Big enough methinks, though it would be nice for it to be big enough for concerts and such. AND SHADE TREES.

Changes:

-Longer the Trolley line
-Improve traffic by anyways possible, wait, a good possible
- I would also like to see the Crosstown Expressway repainted by all means. The concrete look was so 10 yhears ago.
-I think this counts as a change, because it is the opposite of whats going on, leave some of the cigar factories and convert them into lofts. Leave some of our historical feature to Tampa.

One change I think that Tampa needs is MORE ART! I think that a couple of these warehouses should have an art gallery of two.

Make a major retail development like Channelside in the "CBD", maybe in the parking lots. Turn alot of the land between the Meridian and Crosstown. Make modern looking schools in DT before that becomes a problem. Extend the trolley line. Keep the Cube light, it looks cool and adds noticeable art. Kill the tabletop skyline forming in Downtown and keep the triangle. Turn Adamo into a low/midrise lofts/aprtment district, and save the cigar factories.

Make a major retail development like Channelside in the "CBD", maybe in the parking lots. Turn alot of the land between the Meridian and Crosstown. Make modern looking schools in DT before that becomes a problem. Extend the trolley line. Keep the Cube light, it looks cool and adds noticeable art. Kill the tabletop skyline forming in Downtown and keep the triangle. Turn Adamo into a low/midrise lofts/aprtment district, and save the cigar factories.They have a daycare downtown with a school there already. I think that the mall idea is really cool. Every great downtown has a mall. Look at San Diego, they have two malls downtown. They also have a kickass park named Balboa Park. Biggest park in the world. I think that the other thing I would change would be the Convention Center. We need an updated one. I think I like Vancouvers. Everyone should take a look.

I say preserve the cigar factories, extend the trolley, and build as high as possible upwards of 600' regardless of the tabletop effect--b/c you can. Also, incorporate the cruise port into downtown a little more-- don't know how, b/c that is a great asset, like in Miami. work it.

Also, modernize the overpasses of the Crosstown and maybe widen it if poss.

Well you have a port close to downtown it is in Channelside, but you can not get a port downtown the canal isn't wide enough.

IF you consider Channelside downtown - like I do, because it always was until they decided to sell it as something else - the cruise port is downtown and gets the area pretty damn busy on days the ships are in.

I wasn't saying that it was a matter of business on certain days. I was saying that you could not have cruise ship come right next to BoA and Amsouth.

O/T: It would be awesome if St. Pete also had a cruise termnal. We can get more cruise liners in and attract more money to St. Pete.

O/T: It would be awesome if St. Pete also had a cruise termnal. We can get more cruise liners in and attract more money to St. Pete.

....... :cheers:

It would take years and big money to get the infrastructure set up in St Pete... and to what end? So that patrons would have to drive farther to get to the ships, so that the ships could get out of port an hour quicker?

St .Pete does not have the channel or the free waterfront

Just a suggestion. I was going to say New Port Richey instead. :eek2:

St.Pete has more land then seen. It just isn't the developement area. It could be part of the Pier. Have all the shops and restuarants and also have the Cruise Terminal with it. :D

I always hear the reason why the Port of Tampa can't grow tremendously is due to the channel being so narrow that only one ship can pass at a time. When they say this do they mean just the channel alongside Davis Island or are they talking about the path out through the sunshine skyway?

I always hear the reason why the Port of Tampa can't grow tremendously is due to the channel being so narrow that only one ship can pass at a time. When they say this do they mean just the channel alongside Davis Island or are they talking about the path out through the sunshine skyway?

Actually I'd think they're talking about the Ybor Channel, where some of the docks are. They can only fit but so many ships in there. The channel between Harbor Island and the port is plenty wide. Now although its not the wideness of the Sunshine Skyway that affects the ships its the height. There are large state-of-the-art cruise ships that can't come here because they can't fit under the Sunshine Skyway.

call me crazy, but this would be great if the owners of 400ashley would renovate its facade.... so i went ahead and did a quick rendering, the brown stuff is brick.
http://www.fileden.com/public/4449938211867450694353.jpg

Actually they mean the Channel in the bay is not wide enough for two large ships to pass. They keep saying they will put a passing area (kind of like the trolley has with the little area to wait for other trolleys to pass) but they have not gotten around to it yet.

thats what I thought and boy is that idiotic.

Actually they mean the Channel in the bay is not wide enough for two large ships to pass. They keep saying they will put a passing area (kind of like the trolley has with the little area to wait for other trolleys to pass) but they have not gotten around to it yet.

Ok I have a request for you gentlemen... I would love you all to try and pick a building to do a rendering of so that I can put together a future Tampa skyline rendering for Tampa Downtown Partnership. Since they do not have a rendering of the future skyline of Tampa. Retarded huh?!?

I always hear the reason why the Port of Tampa can't grow tremendously is due to the channel being so narrow that only one ship can pass at a time. When they say this do they mean just the channel alongside Davis Island or are they talking about the path out through the sunshine skyway?


The main shipping channel through the bay... It's wide enough for frieghters to pass each other, but passenger ships are required by law to be given a wider berth by other vessels... So much so that nothing can pass a cruise ship when it is in the channel, because the lane isn't wide enough.

There is talk that the Army Corps of Engineers and the Port Authority are working on dredging a "passing zone", but it will take many years before that project can even begin, due to the many layers of regulatory and budgetary hurdles.


[edit] yeah, what Smiley already said.

Ok I have a request for you gentlemen... I would love you all to try and pick a building to do a rendering of so that I can put together a future Tampa skyline rendering for Tampa Downtown Partnership. Since they do not have a rendering of the future skyline of Tampa. Retarded huh?!?
There is already such a thing, thanks to the students in USF's Architecture program. Don't know if the DT Partnership knows of it or cares though.

Can you get it for me?

Maybe the next time the Skyway is revamped, they could make a draw bridge, then larger ships could get in and out but larger ships need deeper water space and does Tampa Bay and the Channels have that?

not sure.

Maybe the next time the Skyway is revamped, they could make a draw bridge, then larger ships could get in and out but larger ships need deeper water space and does Tampa Bay and the Channels have that?

I think the Skyway is to tall and long for it to be a draw bridge. Engineering that would be insane. IMO

Maybe the next time the Skyway is revamped, they could make a draw bridge, then larger ships could get in and out but larger ships need deeper water space and does Tampa Bay and the Channels have that?

The last time the Sunshine Skyway was revamped, it was because it had been destroyed...

I sure as hell hope it isn't "Revamped" for a very long time.

They floated the idea of building a tunnel when replacing the old span was being planned.

that would have been awesome!

I think the Skyway is to tall and long for it to be a draw bridge. Engineering that would be insane. IMO

You are correct, FloridaFuture. :)

The last time the Sunshine Skyway was revamped, it was because it had been destroyed...

I sure as hell hope it isn't "Revamped" for a very long time.

They floated the idea of building a tunnel when replacing the old span was being planned.

LOL. Hell, John. They can't even afford to paint the bridge. Need we say more? :tongue4:

Very True. I do not like the design of the bridge. I wish we had a Brooklyn-esque bridge.

Drawbridge? Ummmm.... thinking about the old Fuller Warren in Jax, the only drawbridge on the entire U.S. interstate system? For the love of God don't wish that pain on us.

You know, when it was opened the current Skyway was considered very classy, if I recall.
Oh, and I drove across it a few weeks ago. Peeling paint? I'm sorry, but I really wasn't looking. The wind scared the shit out of me; I was white-knuckle on the steering wheel staring at the road the whole way across.

Aside from extending the trolley line and other stuff that people have mentioned, the one thing I would do, if I had infinite cosmic powers, is get rid of that awful army-navy surplus store at Laurel and Tampa and replace it with (in my dreams) a community grocery/drugstore with two stories of flats above it.

What the hell are you talking about - that store is an institution - it may be in the top 5 oldest downtown establishments. That store is crazy weird - like a good urban army navy store should be - a little bit scary to be in. I hope that store stays forever. There is ample land for a community grocery store elsewhere.

I think that store is cool. I think if it were to move I would not have fun downtown. lol
I love downtown either way.

more than extending the trolley line, i think that they need to SPEED THE DAMN THING UP.. as well as on weekends, make it run a little more often.. it'd be a great service to use if you wanted to go to channelside from ybor and vice versa if it was a bit faster.. hell, i bet i could ride a bike from ybor to channelside (and vice versa) faster than that trolley can travel

Very True. I do not like the design of the bridge. I wish we had a Brooklyn-esque bridge.

You know, that's got to be the worst comment I have heard about the Skyway from someone who simply doesn't like it.

The Bridge fits the character of Florida to a T. you want Brooklyn Bridge? Move to Brooklyn because the Skyway fits the Tampa Bay region well. The old span, you and many others could charge, was not a very memorable bridge -- just ironwork. This thing -- though in need of a painting -- is spectacular and one of the assets of Tampa Bay.

I've never seen someone dumb down the bridge as much as your post. If you don't like the bridge for an architectural level, then fine. But the Skyway IS our Brooklyn Bridge. It's an icon for the region whether you approve of it or not.

AMEN!

IMO, the Brooklyn Bridge would look asinine spanning the mouth of the bay.

I did not mean that I was wanting an exact replica of the Brooklin Bridge spanning the bay, I was talking about having a large draw bridge. That would be ludacris to have the Brooklin Bridge in Tampa Bay. I would like to see a Florida inspired draw bridge.

^^ Christ, that's worse than the Brooklyn Bridge statement!

What the hell is it with Draw bridges on this thread? Hasn't anyone here gone to Clearwater Beach or Dunedin Causeway and got stuck in traffic while the Bridge was up? Or gotten stuck because the bridge flat out BROKE and would not close?

A BRIDGE is supposed to be a functional object for people, for companies transporting goods, etc. Just because something seems like an interesting idea (a huge draw bridge!!) doesn't mean it makes a lick of sense. With the amount of shipping coming in and out of Tampa Bay, you would have the draw bridge span open for the majority of the time. Why have the bridge there at all if you want more ships bieng able to come in and out of the Bay?

Leave the Sunshine Skyway alone. It's an icon and serves the Bay Area well AS IS. Not as a draw bridge.

You know how insane it would be to have a draw bridge on a major highway??? Espicially if a cruise liner was coming. It would take a hell of a time going through the damn thing and then you'll have the miles and miles of back up on both sides. Draw bridge is out of question.

O/T: I was coming back from Orlando yesterday and was on I-4 ready to get on the MALFUNCTION JUCTION and looked at the Tampa skyline and pictured all the projects going up and proposed and Tampa is going to have a hell of a skyline by 2008-09.

That is if everything gets built.

So is my forum going to die, because everyone is going to let it?

^not sure what you're talking about, so I will go with "yes"...

It was his way of saying "Bump"

This post -- the topic has rambled from outside of Tampa and just become general wishful thinking about the area at times.

But there's only so many things you can wish for and only so many things that are going to happen... so the thread dying is nothing surprising.

Ok I admit defeat.

^^^ don't look at your thread as dying; just think of it as a permanent, restful sleep. :goodnight

I know. You know I was downtown today and looking at the sidewalk thing in front of the Tampa Museum of Art and I was thinking how cool it would be to have like artists and people playing music. A whole Cultural Arts theme. To add with the atmosphere of Malio's.

You know what, mobster -- I don't think you're so far from reality. I think you've hit it right on the head! Maybe, like you, I'm a dreamer, but I think Tampa's future is so far beyond what we can see right now. I see so much potential downtown - if only our council members remain open-minded. (I see so much potential!)

Hang in there! I know everyone else is! :)

I love the bridge but it would have been nice if they had built it high enough for real cruise ships to get under.

Last time I checked, Carnival Cruise ships ARE real cruise ships.

You would prefer the ability to have super ships (tankers, supersized cruise ships, etc) get under it, no?

Just for humoring sake, technology in the future may make it possible to raise a bridge that is currently in use so that larger ships can pass under it. Not unlike a draw bridge but with no delays caused by the bridge opening and closing. It would just be raising a bridge higher and lower while traffic progressed on the bridge.

But don't expect that anytime soon.

From an article posted on a cruise forum I had read-

Carnival Miracle is the line's second-largest class of ship. There is little hope of Carnival ever adding capacity by upsizing the ship again to a Conquest-class vessel, because Tampa is hampered by a height restriction imposed by the Sunshine Skyway Bridge which crosses the channel and prevents the largest cruise ships being built today from entering the harbor. Carnival Miracle can just barely fit under the bridge.

I like the bridge despite all of my previous statements. I think that Saint Pete could build a terminal that could accommedate the larger Carnival ships.

one or two lemonade stands?

No more just blank parking lots.
Parking Garages or buildings. No lots.

the Skyway is now the second most traveled bridge with Howard being the first....both I-275. The ones still alive from the 70s include the Gandy Expressway from Pinellas to the Crosstown, North Crosstown Expressway connecting I-75 with the Veterans, US19 connecting to I-275 via CR296/Bryan Dairy Expressway and US19 from somewhere around Drew St to the Roosevelt Expressway via Bayside Bridge and then connecting to CR296/Bryan Dairy....all freeway. The Heartland Expressway is also back on the table, so that could open everything inland from Ft. Myers to the Polk Parkway and north areas. Roosevelt will actually be directly connected to the main intermodal system for Pinellas.

For all of you hating on the painting of the skyway, FDOT is currently re painting the bridge so!

For all of you hating on the painting of the skyway, FDOT is currently re painting the bridge so!
Yeah, saw that Friday when heading to Fort Desoto. I must say, I'm not really impressed with the bridge being white, just doesn't look so great when you're near Ft. Desoto. I would had went with a dark orange or orange-reddish color, add some flare to it.

I'm really agitated that the work has taken this long to complete. Many times, it doesn't even look like anything is going on with the bridge.

This thread is about desired changes for downtown Tampa. Unless you all want to move the Skyway downtown, please get back on topic. :)

the Skyway is now the second most traveled bridge with Howard being the first....both I-275. The ones still alive from the 70s include the Gandy Expressway from Pinellas to the Crosstown, North Crosstown Expressway connecting I-75 with the Veterans, US19 connecting to I-275 via CR296/Bryan Dairy Expressway and US19 from somewhere around Drew St to the Roosevelt Expressway via Bayside Bridge and then connecting to CR296/Bryan Dairy....all freeway. The Heartland Expressway is also back on the table, so that could open everything inland from Ft. Myers to the Polk Parkway and north areas. Roosevelt will actually be directly connected to the main intermodal system for Pinellas.

I'll probably continue this quote elsewhere, but I am surprised that the North Crosstown is still even in the books. I remember seeing the original plans on the old Bayciti site and was quite surprised to see it in one of THCEA's recent master plan drafts. The main reason being is that building the link will be harder than ever with all the development that has claimed the Carrollwood area. Back in the 70s, Carrollwood was still under construction, Lutz was still a sleepy town.

yep, this is the current THCEA map you speak of? It would run around waters/bird...this will cost a lot more money than it would have been if FDOT would have ignored the then tiny town of Lutz and finished the Veterans Expressway system past Dale Mabry. Now Lutz is just a cramped undeserved transient university population with a few old housing projects with land(the people that bitched) and a lot of new apartment and 8H apartment complexes on the two-lane roads that just clog the area.
http://www.paradigm-designstudio.com/ssc/crosstown.gif

JVance, let's not get FF irritated (yes, I'm to blame too). Please continue the highways discussions at one of these threads:

Pinelas Freeways Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=553158

Crosstown Expressway Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=535687&page=4

Veterans Expressway Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=531395&page=5

Sunshine Skyway Bridge Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=650760

I-275 Tampa Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=531394&page=5

I-4 Tampa Discussion: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=553161

Thanks :)

Wtf? Ok, let's see if maybe I can get through to people. Apparently, there is a breakdown in communication.

PLEASE STOP POSTING OFF TOPIC SHIT IN THIS THREAD!

The best thing that could have happened to DT would have been taking all the residential units that were recently built in Channelside and having them built on the huge number of vacant lots downtown. This would have added residents directly to the DT core and not in some satelite, neo-DT core. The various warehouses and such that were dozed for the various "Miami Vice-lite" condo projects, that means you "The Place", could have been converted into real lofts, not the "soft-lofts" that have been built. Its amazing what was done in HP with the bread factory. Those are nice units and they capture the true feel of a loft space. Those mini-units at The Place and GC are just condos with a couple runs of spiral ducting. Had they built in DT, you would have no reason to drive to work (and if I lived in Channelside and worked DT, I would still drive), and it would have drastically improved the retail and dining possibilities in a central area. Now everything is still spread out all over the place and we don't have a decent neighborhood yet. We now get to wait another ten years for the real estate boom and overcapacity to sell off, before we can make another run at getting things right.