View Full Version : Zimbabwe Gallery - from Zim with love


Durbsboi
April 21st, 2006, 11:34 AM
Hi guys, I know some of us have gotten off on the wrong foot, but I hope all's forgiven, my folks recently visited Harare, so I gave my dad my Digi cam & asked him to click away! & He did not dissapoint. I did not see any other Zim Gallery so I started one. Enjoy!

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1282/13ev1.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3751/dsc022727qr.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5578/dsc022738df.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6848/dsc022748yk.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9559/dsc022755fe.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7998/dsc022766le.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2137/dsc022776ik.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4844/dsc022789js.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8051/dsc022791ex.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9593/dsc022827dj.jpg
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5025/dsc022852hw.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8001/dsc022878hk.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6673/dsc022882up.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4422/dsc022947zx.jpg
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/664/dsc022957op.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4199/dsc022962bc.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9821/dsc022988ie.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/143/dsc022995bk.jpg
A Menu from one of the take aways. the owner got pissed off with my Dad becaus he took the pic, I have no idea why though?
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9310/dsc023019rm.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5423/dsc023286xs.jpg
Look at the empty Coke crates! they drink alot of coke in Zim!
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2189/dsc023298jc.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2114/dsc023306qs.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4102/dsc023313nc.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6012/dsc023324ph.jpg

Everyone is welcome to post more pictures.

Svefn-g-Englar
April 21st, 2006, 09:14 PM
Thank you very much for the pics. It's quite difficulto to find current Zim photos so this is a nice surprise. On the other hand, the decline of Harare is evident in that pics. Nice pics but very sad story the one of this country.

Can you tell us your folks' experience in Zimbabwe?

ahmed_s
April 21st, 2006, 09:19 PM
WOW...mind blowing pics!!! thnxz for sharing

Omega
April 21st, 2006, 09:40 PM
I think the guy at the restaurant was angry because of the prices on the menu.
340 000 zim $ for a chicken burger is big time inflation !

The Economy completely crashed. The once grain depot of Africa is under the verge of famine.

Gilgamesh
April 21st, 2006, 09:51 PM
Nice photos...Interesting prices on the menu. :D

lochinvar
April 21st, 2006, 11:00 PM
Almost half a million dollar for a double chicken burger. Zimbabwe has lots of millionaires. Either Zimbabwe or Turkey is the millionaires' capital of the world. I wonder which one tops.

source26
April 22nd, 2006, 03:22 PM
under mugabe only bill gates will be able to eat a burger there, and because he's a rich white who stole black education by making pricy computers, he will get beaten up doing it. :rofl:

skipperBill
April 22nd, 2006, 03:56 PM
Excellent pictures Durbs.
I wonder which building that is underconstruction in your picture. It looks like a cool design.

shayan
April 22nd, 2006, 06:09 PM
once the richest country in africa.. today...

JAB323
April 22nd, 2006, 08:09 PM
nice to see recent pics of Zim. Goes to show how much inflation is up with those chicken prices. Tell your pops thanks. :)

thryve
April 22nd, 2006, 08:13 PM
Great!!! I really appreciate you taking the time to post these... thanks alot!

-thryve

Matthias Offodile
April 22nd, 2006, 08:47 PM
Durbsboi, thanks a lot for these pics. I am really surprised that Harare still looks so good, they are even erecting new (glitzy) buildings...whenever I read something in the papers it all sounds as if the whole country ressembles Congo!!!...but thanks for proving the opposite...things doesnīt seem to be so bad judging from your photos!

Do you think that Zimbabwe will take off again after Mugabe will have gone?

dysan1
April 22nd, 2006, 10:26 PM
you do know that inflation there is at 900%...and aiming for over 1000% by year end...so scary! prices basically change daily! thanx for the pics durbsboi...!!

Zim Flyer
April 23rd, 2006, 09:19 PM
Durbsboi, thanks a lot for these pics. I am really surprised that Harare still looks so good, they are even erecting new (glitzy) buildings...whenever I read something in the papers it all sounds as if the whole country ressembles Congo!!!...but thanks for proving the opposite...things doesnīt seem to be so bad judging from your photos!



Matthias, read my comment in this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=325863

Durbsboi, many thanks for the pics they are great to see.


Re Zim, yes when we have got rid of Mugabe and ZANU PF, I believe things will get better as the Dispora will return.

JAB323
April 23rd, 2006, 09:34 PM
Hey Durbsboi, are you a South African of Indian descent?

JustHorace
April 24th, 2006, 06:12 AM
I'm surprised to see a Crowne Plaza. However, I know the story of this country. I pity it, rather than be impressed.

StormShadow
April 24th, 2006, 06:22 AM
Whoa! These photos are the most that I've seen on the net that were taken in Harare and also recent. Superb thread! And very well needed for the city photography forum lovers. :rock:

SE9
April 24th, 2006, 07:07 AM
Thanks alot for that. Nice photos of Joina Centre under construction. Great job :okay:

Durbsboi
April 24th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Thank you very much for the pics. It's quite difficulto to find current Zim photos so this is a nice surprise. On the other hand, the decline of Harare is evident in that pics. Nice pics but very sad story the one of this country.

Can you tell us your folks' experience in Zimbabwe?

They actually enjoyed them self, life is soo different there, If you rich then you in haven, if you poor, ya then its abit of a struggle. But from all the houses they been too, each house has about 4 servants, one guard, one garden boy, & 2 maids, all of which stay in an out building, each with their own rooms, each of them get an avg of 5million zim dollars a month.

They very greatfull of everything they get, & they never moan to do extra work, & they learn the indian culture's, because most of my relatives were amazed when all the servants greated them in the indian way.

But lifes not all that rosey for the rich too, they have to do without certain luxeries, which they have to get from SA, so hence a trip about twice a month to SA is essential for biscuits, frozen foods & occasionaly petrol & Liquor.

Durbsboi
April 24th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Excellent pictures Durbs.
I wonder which building that is underconstruction in your picture. It looks like a cool design.
According to the locals that building is underconstruction for the last 5 years

Durbsboi
April 24th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Do you think that Zimbabwe will take off again after Mugabe will have gone?

It should, it will take a while, but its not that bad. There is still plenty of money in Zimbabwe, I mean when my folks were there, they never sat in a car that cast less than half a million rand, so if those guys are interested in investing in their country when Megabe's gone, I can only see good happening.

Durbsboi
April 24th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Hey Durbsboi, are you a South African of Indian descent?
Yep, I am indian, but born in SA, folks are also born here, both my grand parents are from india though.

JAB323
April 24th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Yep, I am indian, but born in SA, folks are also born here, both my grand parents are from india though.

That's cool. That's part of the reason Durban is so great. Good culture, great food. :)

lochinvar
April 25th, 2006, 07:18 AM
It looks like investors are anxiously waiting for the demise of Mugabe and Castro. Is there going to be a great upheaval when the two departs?

JAB323
April 26th, 2006, 12:27 AM
I don't know about an "upheaval" but there will be something going on. ;)

mike2005
April 26th, 2006, 06:57 PM
there is about one building going up in harare and all the others are slowly falling down!!!

dysan1
April 26th, 2006, 08:25 PM
durbsboi...think we gotta go do a photo tour of southern africa together...durban takes on the south! :)

mukkingfutzz......
August 2nd, 2006, 10:49 PM
Here's a nice picture I saw of Harare

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/1399/4159916001harareraywi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/995/zimbabwelodgear4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/2488/1089nz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beautfiul Aloe Plant

http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/4797/aloeharareoz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

mike2005
August 3rd, 2006, 12:11 AM
this gallery saddens me so much as it reminds me of my childhood days in zim. I dont think any country can recover fully from hyper inflation and total economic meltdown that zim is experiencing. there is noone left there to rebuild it. all the doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, teachers etc have gone. It makes me so sad.

JAB323
August 3rd, 2006, 04:29 AM
^^ I hate to say it but unless there are some drastic changes in the next few years, Zim is a lost cause.

SE9
August 10th, 2006, 09:47 AM
Harare - street level, in 2002

http://static.flickr.com/67/179852827_0a1d39b83d_b.jpg

thryve
August 12th, 2006, 08:22 PM
^^ I hate to say it but unless there are some drastic changes in the next few years, Zim is a lost cause.

Thanks for that? (That appropriately timed comment.)?

StormShadow
August 12th, 2006, 09:36 PM
http://www.cricketump.com/images/various/Harare,%20capital%20of%20Zimbabwe.JPG

StormShadow
August 12th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Harare 2006: Street Scene
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/376/harare2006hx7.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harare2006hx7.jpg)

Matthias Offodile
August 12th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Stormshadow, that Harare street level pic still looks great, if you hadnīt told us that it is Harare, I would certainly not have guessed it. It looks equal to any city in Canada or the US. For a country with a 1000% inflation, rate one would expect other images. I am truly plesantly surprised.

Svefn-g-Englar
August 13th, 2006, 12:03 AM
I've found some nice Harare pictures on the web, I'll share them


Fist, we have this beautiful pano, possibly taken from the Kopje. Joina Center can be seen in the middle.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4562/hararezimbabweer1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Svefn-g-Englar
August 13th, 2006, 12:18 AM
Victorian building in Harare
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7489/har1es0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Supreme Court of Zimbabwe
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4988/har2fy0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Outside of Natural History Museum of Zimbabwe
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3862/har3tk8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Xusein
August 13th, 2006, 02:37 AM
If it wasn't for Mugabe, Harare would be one of the African cities with the most development potential...great pictures, BTW.

Oh, well...when he dies, Zimbabwe will go back to where it belongs.

JAB323
August 13th, 2006, 03:55 PM
great pan.

StormShadow
August 13th, 2006, 06:57 PM
http://static.flickr.com/16/20546815_9a4468ae92_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/16/20544775_bd71ac706f_b.jpg

Zanu PF HQ
http://static.flickr.com/17/20544771_456b5bcfec_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/15/20544770_3ca6aa10c5_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/21/31267328_83df53e806_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/21/31266897_2514527383_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/21/31266878_ff414fd738_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/23/31266944_afba32243f_o.jpg

Flat in Avondale, Harare
http://static.flickr.com/1/130778474_3bfdbd7c16_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/19/23040707_f4719b2dc6_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/37/75721100_02076b2d53_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/36/75721101_25a7416580_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/41/75721102_a19ace6f1c_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/39/75735796_ecc9aab64f_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/38/75735799_ab986270f8_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/43/75735800_eafdc4d675_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/38/75736864_c0d6037768_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/6/75737858_661844449b_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/38/75735801_3dbddc21f5_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/40/75736866_eeab4eaea1_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/43/75737854_12018c3aa0_o.jpg

Svefn-g-Englar
August 13th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Excelent work StormShadow, these are the best recent Harare pics I've seen, and the last ones show the real Harare I always wanted to see, not just the CBD, but some street shots.

JAB323
August 14th, 2006, 05:50 AM
wow great pics definately more recent than we've seen in a while.

StormShadow
December 3rd, 2006, 06:31 AM
More from 2006

http://static.flickr.com/103/307568975_7fb06f64ee_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/101/307565664_1fbb94b24e_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/121/307565239_5fc2578416_b.jpg

Matthias Offodile
December 3rd, 2006, 05:20 PM
what invariably surprises me about Zimbabwe is that despite its record high inflation and its bad economy, Harare still is in good shape, no trash dumps in the streets, construction is still going on there (Joina Centre), there are still well- tarred roads, no drug-addicted rebel (kids) that brutally roam the streets with guns (and are willing to blow off your head for a decent meal and a soft-drink/beer) what is the case for some parts of Africa that face similar economic problems to those in Zimbabwe.

mike2005
December 3rd, 2006, 08:13 PM
the place is actually crumbling. I was there 4 months ago for two days and the street signs are rusting, the lights dont work very well and the roads are in a bad way. Infact everythng looks scruffy and very tired. Comparing modern harare to the clean superb city of the 1990s with today is most upsetting. and aside from the joina centre which has taken years and years to build nothing more of any size is being built in harare. Zim alongside Ivory Coast are tragic nations.

mike2005
December 3rd, 2006, 08:15 PM
I wish we could get a botswana thread going because gaborone is everything that harare is not: clean, booming, safe and improving every day.

StormShadow
December 3rd, 2006, 08:22 PM
Meikles Department Store
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8669/harare1zo8.jpg

Street scene in Harare
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8493/harare2qk7.jpg

The Joina Centre
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5343/harare3ft5.jpg

StormShadow
December 3rd, 2006, 08:26 PM
I wish we could get a botswana thread going because gaborone is everything that harare is not: clean, booming, safe and improving every day.

We have one, it's called "Gabo-Gabo" and I'll bumb it in a few.

Matthias Offodile
December 3rd, 2006, 08:38 PM
We have one, it's called "Gabo-Gabo" and I'll bumb it in a few

Yeah, we had that one but maybe we could just open a new one because there was a botswana guy around that was poking fun at other african nations in a hideous way which made me angry (he was also on the South African forum attacking people, for all I can remember), so it is the best to open a clean and new one! (at least in the case of Gaborone)

StormShadow
December 3rd, 2006, 08:43 PM
Yeah, we had that one but maybe we could just open a new one because there was a botswana guy around that was poking fun at other african nations in a hideous way which made me angry (he was also on the South African forum attacking people, for all I can remember), so it is the best to open a clean and new one! (at least in the case of Gaborone)

I'll make a new one and relocate everything over to the new thread. Can we lock the old one or delete it when the relocation is done ?

Matthias Offodile
December 3rd, 2006, 08:46 PM
Stormshadow, That would be very nice if you have the time to do it for us! Better delete the whole thread, The messages of the Botswana guy have already been deleted some time ago by Thryve!

StormShadow
January 10th, 2007, 08:24 AM
ZANU-PF Building, Harare, Zimbabwe (7 January 2007)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/349410731_7a9d19d3f3_o.jpg

StormShadow
January 25th, 2007, 04:28 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/112/279073454_ed90fd54a9_b.jpg

Parliament of Zimbabwe, Harare
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/269677724_92b352a3cd_b.jpg

From September 2006
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/94/269677725_8b87142683_b.jpg

Fountain, Africa Unity Square. Harare
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/269671973_51f1f98f85_b.jpg

StormShadow
January 25th, 2007, 04:35 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352976730_eafcf735f0_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/352976056_449241e38d_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/352975802_0e566183e9_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/352975098_ab9090bdb8_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/352973561_bea862dba8_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/352973273_483f63efcc_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/352972953_81a1668112_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/352972685_cf3af12c7c_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/352972450_55f42cfd31_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/352971748_26020aa61f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/352971028_f5256b5218_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/352970707_c9ea4799e9_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/352970360_2864ac28b4_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/352969944_567c207ab6_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/352969493_9f3d182611_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/352968870_a7ee0985ef_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/352968538_1735123029_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/352968274_7f2366c1a4_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/352968022_28ce2f2b3b_b.jpg

StormShadow
January 25th, 2007, 04:45 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/353011691_ac4d8557b6_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/353011446_e798983370_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/353011211_633206e30e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/353010995_148885363d_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/142/353010815_a7a9438fe8_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/353010508_3bbd88c569_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/353010078_9783304e6a_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/353008306_8e57427b3a_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/353002934_735d0014ee_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/353003166_8bc786f446_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/353001695_e83041fcfd_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/353001241_588defe38e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/353000890_425a60edc9_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/353000581_b787eded44_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/352999944_7109c67568_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/352999420_f21d5c9ff0_b.jpg

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http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/352997903_2bf6ad6fa7_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/352997142_11289958e1_b.jpg

StormShadow
January 27th, 2007, 01:59 AM
Bump* :yes:

StormShadow
February 27th, 2007, 08:29 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/394091536_4e5799c326_o.jpg

Matthias Offodile
February 27th, 2007, 08:52 PM
Stormshadow, fantastic photos!

If you look at the photos, it just looks as if Zimbabwe is still a well-functioning and fairly prosperous country (roads are tidy, no endless garbage dumps or slums, traffic lights are still functioning, the majority of the buildings are not decrepit at all, roads are not pot-holed but still well paved, people look well-dressed etc.).
In short, Zimbabwe just looks like Zimbabwe before Robert Mugabe had gone mad....it is unbelievable that the Zimbabwean economy collapsed when you look at all those nice photos, countries of collapsed economies look different from what we see here. Harare is still very orderly, it could be anywhere in the States or the UK - at least - from what I can see here.:)

arzaranh
February 27th, 2007, 10:24 PM
that eastgate building is really cool!

stoicman31
February 28th, 2007, 12:11 AM
Zimbabwe seems to have a lot of potential, why can't they just get over the political impase and make that country what its capable of being.... a prosperous African nation.

The American
March 1st, 2007, 01:15 AM
Nice city. Needs more density and taller scrapers to make it a true world class city and add a definitive skyline.

DanteXavier
March 1st, 2007, 05:06 AM
I can't even look at those pics without turning away. It's too hard. I'd like to look hard at them and appreciate them the way i do for other countries like Gabon, Namibia or Botswana(heck, even SA to an extent), but I can't.

The fact is, a few pics of a few ok looking street scenes means nothing when you've got an idiot leading the country, isolation from the rest of the world, a crumbling economy with the world's highest inflation rates, and when 80% of your people are unemployed and 80% live in poverty.

A couple of decent looking pics means nothing. All it shows is that Zimbabawe does have the potential for success, to be even more successful than botswana even...but it isn't, and that's what makes those pics even harder to look at.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 1st, 2007, 10:10 PM
I agree Xavier, I think it's the biggest faįade in Africa and does not show the hunger and deprivation resulting from Robert Mugabe's disastrous policies. I'd imagine that Robert Mugabe's 25-room mansion looks great too in a country that spends millions of dollars on his birthday while his citizens starve from food shortages! It does not show the 2 million people displaced by Operation Murambatsvina and the worse shacks that have been built in the place of homes many of which were formal houses. What these pictures do not show is the fact that Zimbabwe is now one of the poorest countries in the world after it's economy shrank 60% in the last eight years.

baersworth
March 3rd, 2007, 07:49 AM
isolation from the rest of the world,
==========================
It was the western world isolated them. However, even so, with a link to China, they will have everything. Isolated by the west is nothing nowadays. Seeing is believing, what I see is a blooming place, I did not see the word "sad" or "hopeless" on the face of the people.

DanteXavier
March 3rd, 2007, 07:58 AM
isolation from the rest of the world,
==========================
It was the western world isolated them. However, even so, with a link to China, they will have everything. Isolated by the west is nothing nowadays. Seeing is believing, what I see is a blooming place, I did not see the word "sad" or "hopeless" on the face of the people.

No, this isolation is what has mainly contributed to the horrid situation we see today. China just wants some new resources, and all Zimbabwe is doing is buying fighter jets from them.

I never said the people had to be hopeless. i said they should be at a FAR higher level than they are now. You can't look at these few pictures, and from that, completely ignore the fact that this is one of the worst economies on earth today, and 80% of these supposedly troublefree folks you're talking about are living below the poverty line, with a ton of them running over to Botswana.
You're seeing a few pictures of a shiny capital. You're not seeing the whole picture. To solve the problem, you have to actually see it first.

Tbite
March 3rd, 2007, 08:49 AM
One Pic, You can see the Eastgate Centre, down the street.:)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Harare_secondst.jpg/800px-

Kenguy
March 11th, 2007, 11:44 AM
Do you think the expelled farmers and the millions of professionals who have run away from zim will evenually return once "Bob" is out of power? Can the country still be saved?

Matthias Offodile
March 11th, 2007, 03:49 PM
With regard to the former Zimbabwe farmers that have setlled in Nigeria so far, the answer is NO they wonīt return, they are happy where they are now, it is a peaceful region and the governor has gone to great length in order to make them stay. Already that federal state is enjoying high growth rates and it has become a net exporter of agricultural products.:banana:

For the rest of the question, I canīt answer it I am not an expert on Zimbabwe, hopefully someone else can do it for us!

mike2005
March 13th, 2007, 07:40 PM
the answer is no. I will never go back and I doubt anyone else will because there is nothing to go back to.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 13th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Mike 2005

Agreed. I doubt that 250,000 whites who fled Zimbabwe at independence in 1980, including 5,000 commericial farmers, will go back to Zimbabwe, just as the Portuguese did not go back to Angola and Mozambique after their economies were ruined by war and socialism after independence. I think that like the 100,000 Portuguese who are still living in SA today, I doubt that any of the Rhodesians and white Zimbabweans (the 70,000 stayed on at independence, but who fled after the farm invasions in 2000) will return to a humanitarian and economic wasteland in Zimbabwe. It certainly won't happen in my lifetime. It is more likely that those who are in SA right now will go abroad to Australia or the US than to go back to a post-Mugabe Zimbabwe.

Also I do not think that the estimated 4-5 million black Zimbabweans living in SA will return to Zimbabwe anytime soon either, even right after Mugabe goes. It will probably take a whole generation to rebuild a collapsed country and put it in a decent shape before middle-class black Zimbabweans living in SA would even consider returning to Zimbabwe while the poor will not go back voluntarily as the social services and wages in SA will always be far superior to Zimbabwe's.

Matthias Offodile
March 13th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Mike 2005

Agreed. I doubt that 250,000 whites who fled Zimbabwe at independence in 1980, including 5,000 commericial farmers, will not go back to Zimbabwe, just as the Portuguese did not go back to Angola and Mozambique after their economies were ruined by war and socialism after independence. I think that like the 100,000 Portuguese who are still living in SA today, I doubt that any of the Rhodesians and white Zimbabweans (the 70,000 stayed on at independence, but who fled after the farm invasions in 2000) will return to a humanitarian and economic wasteland in Zimbabwe. It certainly won't happen in my lifetime. It is more likely that those who are in SA right now will go abroad to Australia or the US than to go back to a post-Mugabe Zimbabwe.

Why does it have to boil down to race issues again???:bash: Have you ever stuck your nose out of SA? Have you followed the news (that I was able to track) on Angola? I doubt it...:ohno: The country is moving, le pays bouge!
Sorry, but some guys from your country "down under" are at times narrow-minded people and unable to imagine a world beyond "tomorrow". :ohno: Once bad , always bad! Once good always good!
You seem to be more in love with OZ, Ausstralia, the UK, Canada and the US than facing up to your African identity.
As opposed to many SA, the Portuguese at least mingled with the locals and left a mixed population in Angola and on Cape Verde (something that is still likely to be considered as something "impure" by some remaining particular circles of SA society; black and white marriages are still a no go in SA, heard about that in the French press),
It might have escaped your notice that the vast majority of Portuguese that fled the war in Angola DID NOT go to SA...and many have not lost touch with Angola and wish to return ("saudade"). Havenīt you read what sebastio or Blacklion have said? Ten of thousands have returned and are doing well. As far as the racists are concerned, they can stay away, Angola certainly doesnīt need them.
Moreover, there are hundreds of thousands of very well-educated black Angolans that are still in close contact with their motherland and who had to flee war, too. So please donīt say that only the white population was affected by it?

Btw, have it escaped your notice that SA heavily contributed to the wars in Mozambique and Angola and PROFITTED immensely from the downfall of its neigbours?? SA could prosper due to Angolaīs 30 year long war. (there were no other competitors around in Southern Africa), and believe me Angola would have been a big competitor for SA if the civil war hadnīt ruined the country.

Futhermore, whenever I see pics or TV or reports on SA on Cape Town to be more precise, I only see white people having fun, no Blacks sit together with white people or Indians/Arabs (coloureds). Why? Blacks are still the waiters, mostly the maids or those zealously sweeping the streets in Cape Town?:ohno:
Letīs face it Cape Town is "the last white colonial enclave" in sub-saharan Africa and if you donīt take an effort at integrating Blacks and Colureds more into society, make them share your wealth, your house will seriously burn in the future.

White South African have been living for centuries in Africa but still feel more closed to people in the UK, OZ, Aussieland, or Canada than to your African brothers and sisters!?. Sometimes I even have the feeling that soem of you have an inferiority complex to people in the UK, OZ and the like just because you live in Africa.

Mosi, this is not something directed against you personally but some general observations I have made on SA society as a whole.

Sims
March 14th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Very well put

Kenguy
March 14th, 2007, 01:04 PM
[QUOTE:Matthias Offodile]

Futhermore, whenever I see pics or TV or reports on SA on Cape Town to be more precise, I only see white people having fun, no Blacks sit together with white people or Indians/Arabs (coloureds). Why? Blacks are still the waiters, mostly the maids or those zealously sweeping the streets in Cape Town?:ohno:
Letīs face it Cape Town is "the last white colonial enclave" in sub-saharan Africa and if you donīt take an effort at integrating Blacks and Colureds more into society, make them share your wealth, your house will seriously burn in the future. QUOTE]

I think it will take some time for blacks to be fully incorporated into the mainstream economy of SA. Hopefully in a few years places like cape town will take on a multiracial (rainbow) face. As regarding SA going down in flames....Its not gonna happen.:ohno: Theres too much to lose.:)

Purple Dreams
March 14th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Is Mugabe universally hated in Zimbabwe?

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 14th, 2007, 09:53 PM
It might have escaped your notice that the vast majority of Portuguese that fled the war in Angola DID NOT go to SA...and many have not lost touch with Angola and wish to return ("saudade"). Havenīt you read what sebastio or Blacklion have said? Ten of thousands have returned and are doing well. As far as the racists are concerned, they can stay away, Angola certainly doesnīt need them.
Moreover, there are hundreds of thousands of very well-educated black Angolans that are still in close contact with their motherland and who had to flee war, too. So please donīt say that only the white population was affected by it?

Wishful thinking if you think that the Portuguese have returned to Angola. Maybe about 500 have returned and besides they are there on work permits just like the Americans in the oil business and will go back to their countries when their contracts expire. The pictures you see on the web of Portuguese families in Angola and Mozambique are visiting tourists who have no intention of "re-settling" in those countries whose infrastructures are still in tatters even today. So by and large there is not a sustainable Portuguese community left in Angola, not since the second war in 1992 drove the remaining 5,000 out. In Mozambique it's the same situation except there are even fewer Portuguese there than oil-rich Angola.

With regard to Portuguese who left Angola and Mozambique, you are right most have gone back to Portugal while others went further on to Australia and the US. There were 700,000 Portuguese in Angola and Mozambique in 1973 and about 100,00 fled to SA in 1975, although many of these are leaving SA like other whites and going back to Portugal because of the high crime situation in post-apartheid SA.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 14th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Letīs face it Cape Town is "the last white colonial enclave" in sub-saharan Africa and if you donīt take an effort at integrating Blacks and Colureds more into society, make them share your wealth, your house will seriously burn in the future.

Well Matthias you must believe the rhetoric of the Africanists controlling the Western Cape ANC, who are still being stung by their defeat by Mayor Helen Zille of the Democratic Alliance (DA), which won the municipal poll for Cape Town last year. Certainly there are hotheads like Tony Erhleigh of the Western Cape Cosatu who bluster about land in Hout Bay but their politics are out of favor in the Cape as Mayor Helen Zille is popular with both blacks and whites as she can effectively run a city. She is even admired by some black Africans in the ANC who admit that their own party, at least in the Western Cape, is a total mess. And the coloureds, they are not happy with the ANC either. In the recent Hout Bay local by-election won by the DA, the DA polled over 75% of the coloured vote while the ANC saw it's share of the coloured vote cut by two thirds since last year's poll. So the Mugabe-style populist rantings certainly do not go down well with these people.

Matthias Offodile
March 15th, 2007, 02:18 AM
Mosi, you really made me laugh out loudly , only 500 Portuguese that have returned since the war ended in Angola out of the once 700 000:lol: ...and those are just "expats"? What are you trying to say with that? Portuguese people are not American oilmen that live fenced off with imported bananas and pineapple juice. Is that mere provocation you are aiming at? I can assure you from personal sources that tens of thousands have returned, some figures put the number at 50 000 and not at 500. I have found tons of perosnal blogs on Angola and read what people said on the blogs, and they are all generally positive to very positive, I can assure you that it is the excact opposite form what you claim. Moreover, you have maaaaaanny well-educated original Angolans that return to their motherland. Angola gets rebuilt, for Christīs sake! In you eyes Angola is a humanitarian wasteland and an economic catastrophe that will never get rebuilt, right?
Those are all retornados (black, mulattos and whites) and they donīt wish to ressetle only for 1-2 years, believe me and believe what sebastio and Blacklion said, they have both the backround knowledge that you lack! Angola will be a wholly different place in 10-15 years and you have to come now and not in 10 years time...the country gets rebuilt now, I am sure you have never cast an eye into the Angola threads I have created.

Mosi, You are so colonial in your attitude and this truly disenchants me. You inwardly surely regret the end of apartheid - not for its brutality but because everything was more "oderly" and "structured" and "white" before 1994, right? Please, then say it directly, it is an open forum! You seem to belong to those that think that only white people are able to run a country properly. In your eyes Africa is doomed to failure for eternity when the whites leave, please say it directly, īcos I am a very direct person, I donīt conceal my emotions and attitudes neither.

Moreover, you seem to be an insensible person as well by saying that I am a Mugabe-style populist, I can assure you that I dislike Mugabe as much as you do for the way he ruined the country but I also feel utter contempt for people who only believe in the superiority of the white race!

Sims
March 15th, 2007, 03:48 PM
These political discussions wont get us nowhere, except for maybe ruining the Zim gallery.
However, @Mosi, your usage of the word "Africanist" implies that you think it is something bad, I can almost asure you most people in this forum will take it as a compliment being called an Africanist.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 15th, 2007, 11:54 PM
In you eyes Angola is a humanitarian wasteland and an economic catastrophe that will never get rebuilt, right?
Those are all retornados (black, mulattos and whites) and they donīt wish to ressetle only for 1-2 years, believe me and believe what sebastio and Blacklion said, they have both the backround knowledge that you lack! Angola will be a wholly different place in 10-15 years and you have to come now and not in 10 years time...the country gets rebuilt now, I am sure you have never cast an eye into the Angola threads I have created.

Mosi, You are so colonial in your attitude and this truly disenchants me. You inwardly surely regret the end of apartheid - not for its brutality but because everything was more "oderly" and "structured" and "white" before 1994, right?

Moreover, you seem to be an insensible person as well by saying that I am a Mugabe-style populist, I can assure you that I dislike Mugabe as much as you do for the way he ruined the country but I also feel utter contempt for people who only believe in the superiority of the white race!

Well, surprised this comment comes from Mr. Cote D'Ivoire, you propagandist of former dictator Felix Houphoet-Boigny, the Frenchman of Africa.

No, you are wrong, I have seen your Angolan posts. Quite nice they are.

My view of Angola is based on the fact that it ranks at the bottom in terms of Human Development Index (HDI) indicators. I do not buy the superficial GDP numbers suggesting a per capita GDP of $4,000 or $45 billion annual GDP by the IMF (atlas-method) as most of this is inflated by oil revenues. If you look at the non-oil part of the economy Angola is still a poor country like Mozambique.

Sure there is rapid economic growth but it comes from a very low base because of the 30-year civil war caused more than $100 billion in damage to the country, partly to blame on the former apartheid regime when the National Party ruled SA when it supported Jonas Savimbi and UNITA, which turned out not to be the democrats they professed to be during the Cold War.

A few showpiece bridges, roads and hospitals and glossy skyscrapers do not hide the fact that this is still a LDC country. It will take at least 50-years to get Angola back to where it was in 1975 when the civil war started. I'm just being realistic here.

Angola also does not have a democratically-elected government, but is ruled by a strongman, Jose dos Santos, who has been in power since 1979, and whose ruling MPLA party continues to siphon off the oil profits that line the pockets of the MPLA elite instead of going to social services in a meaningful way. The regime refuses to hold an open democratic election as it has promised for the last five-years. It is a country that like Zimbabwe stands out as one that does not uphold basic democratic standards of governance.

Did you know that between 1997 and 2001, more than $1 billion cannot still be accounted for...and that was six years ago. With the massive windfall from oil revenues, one can speculate that at least $10 billion may be unaccounted for which if GDP were $50 billion, then one fifth of government revenues are in the hands of the MPLA plunderers who like former dictator Sese Seko Mobutu of Zaire have stashed the cash away in overseas bank accounts. Jose dos Santos is one of the richest men in the world. But the Angolan people will probably never see the oil money, certainly not as long as the MPLA is still in power and continues to plunder the country.

Kenguy
March 16th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Is Mugabe universally hated in Zimbabwe?

Im not Zimbabwean but Im sure there are those who adore the fellow. The former landless peasant may be all praises for Mugabe as he sees him as a modern day Moses returning his people to the promised land of their fore- fathers. The same goes for the officials and cronies in high places benefiting from the reforms.

Mugabe is the devil incarnate to, of course, the dispalced White farmers and all those without jobs in urban areas and whose businesses are suffering under inflation and lack of access to goods and foreign currency without going through the black market. Not to mention the myriad homeless people he left after his government flattened their houses. Many are presently suffering from lack of access to medical services as the health sector has also ground to a halt (this also means no access to life saving ARV's to the country collapsing under the weight of the AIDS pandemic).

In all situations, there are two sides of the coin. But in this case, the scale is tilted to general dislike for Mugabe! He should go!!!:)

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 16th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Im not Zimbabwean but Im sure there are those who adore the fellow. The former landless peasant may be all praises for Mugabe as he sees him as a modern day Moses returning his people to the promised land of their fore- fathers. The same goes for the officials and cronies in high places benefiting from the reforms.

Mugabe is the devil incarnate to, of course, the dispalced White farmers and all those without jobs in urban areas and whose businesses are suffering under inflation and lack of access to goods and foreign currency without going through the black market. Not to mention the myriad homeless people he left after his government flattened their houses. Many are presently suffering from lack of access to medical services as the health sector has also ground to a halt (this also means no access to life saving ARV's to the country collapsing under the weight of the AIDS pandemic).

In all situations, there are two sides of the coin. But in this case, the scale is tilted to general dislike for Mugabe! He should go!!!:)

Understand your sentiments and I think Mugabe must go too as he is a tyrant and a mass murderer. He should go to the International Tribunal on War Crimes at the Hague and face the same justice of the late former Yugoslav dictator Slobadon Milosevic.

BlackLion
March 16th, 2007, 10:54 PM
Angola also does not have a democratically-elected government, but is ruled by a strongman, Jose dos Santos, who has been in power since 1979, and whose ruling MPLA party continues to siphon off the oil profits that line the pockets of the MPLA elite instead of going to social services in a meaningful way. The regime refuses to hold an open democratic election as it has promised for the last five-years. It is a country that like Zimbabwe stands out as one that does not uphold basic democratic standards of governance.

Did you know that between 1997 and 2001, more than $1 billion cannot still be accounted for...and that was six years ago. With the massive windfall from oil revenues, one can speculate that at least $10 billion may be unaccounted for which if GDP were $50 billion, then one fifth of government revenues are in the hands of the MPLA plunderers who like former dictator Sese Seko Mobutu of Zaire have stashed the cash away in overseas bank accounts. Jose dos Santos is one of the richest men in the world. But the Angolan people will probably never see the oil money, certainly not as long as the MPLA is still in power and continues to plunder the country.

As an Angolan I feel the need to intervene here, even though this is a Zimbabwe thread. My apologies, but the record has to be set straight.

Mosi, I agree whole-heartedly with everything you say here, except when you say that Angola needs 50years to return to its 1975 levels. Elections will come in 2009, and if Dos Santos is pushed out of power, I expect Angola to be the way it was in 1975 in no more than 20yrs at the most. Why? Because what Angolans are doing now is bigger and better than what the Portuguese ever did in Angola. Portugal is a small country lagging behind the rest of the European Union in terms of development, and what they did in Angola pre-independence, in terms of development, is miles behind what the English and French did in other African countries. For example, there are only two big cities in Angola, namely Luanda and Huambo, and the rest are little tiny towns, while in other African countries, such as Kenya, one sees more than just 2 big cities, but rather several, with respectable infrastructure. So I am of the opinion that Portugal partly mismanaged Angola during colonial times, despite the pretty pictures.

Now back to the politics. I would like to bring to the attention of all forumers here that what Mosi has said about the political situation in Angola is TRUE. There are no two ways about it. Despite the pretty pictures, the average Angolan can hardly see the difference between what life was like now and during the war. Sure, there is no war, people arent being killed, buildings arent being destroyed, but is the country more democratic? Is he getting the money he deserves considering that the country's economy is booming? Is his salary increasing? NO. This is mainly due to the CORRUPTION and TOTALITARIAN tendencies of Mr. Dos Santos regime. Billions of dollars from oil are unaccounted for, and it is basically a crime to ask about them. Recently, a Global Witness activist by the name of Sarah Wykes was arrested in the oil rich enclave of Cabinda, a province of Angola, for asking local groups about government corruption and why they were dirt poor despite the American rigs pumping oil out of the Angolan ocean like leeches sucking blood out of a human being. She also distributed pamphlets. Ms. Wykes was ARRESTED and first charged with spying (??!!) and then for endangering the security of the Angolan state. She was only allowed to leave Angola 2 days ago, after the EU, the US, and several US Senators, including Barack Obama, intervened on her behalf. Also last week, the leader of the opposition party in Angola was subject of an assassination attempt by rogue members of the Angolan police force. This soon after a meeting between Mugabe and dos Santos in Luanda airport. The police gave false, conflicting reports about the occasion, and the state media shoved it under the carpet. Dos Santos said nothing about it.

So despite the numerous schools being built, the skyscrapers rising in the Luanda skyline, the roads, the bridges here and there, and the booming economy, democracy in Angola is a farce, corruption is widespread and institutionalized, the regime has shown overtly totalitarian tendencies, and the average Angolan is not benefitting from his booming economy. We are all waiting for elections in 2008 and 2009, albeit skeptically because this is still Africa and the big men still buy the votes.

As for Mugabe and Zimbabwe, the man disgusts me. Starving his own people in order to get votes? Inflation at 1800%, the highest in the world? Lavish birthday parties while people die of HUNGER? Disgusting.

Once again I apologize for the political thread, but the record had to b set straight, and we are all mature men and women (except Snoop Dogg, I read what you wrote on the other thread, grow up son) that should be able to have mature political discussions without turning threads into a war of words. Agree to disagree.

Matthias Offodile
March 17th, 2007, 12:00 AM
Blacklion, highly disappointing report that you have given us there on Angola. Well, you are Angolan and you must know best!:)

But one question still remains: if roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, airports, houses etc. get built and or rebuilt, isnīt that somehow a start after all the years of misery, plight and despair? I sometimes think that we Africans expect too much too quickly. Expectations are often too high and cannot be met, this rapidly turns into social disenchantment (in recent times people have become pretty disllusioned with president Wade in Senegal despite his recent re-election, they blame him for turning into an autocrat that siphons off state funds... but he has done a lot for his country with the meagre means his country disposes of)!
Well, if corruption has become so instituionalized in Angola as you describe, I doubt that even a newly and democratically elected government will revert the trend durably as the temptation of "easy money" will always be there. (if you know what I mean)

Btw, Can you post into the Angola news thread some profiles of the potential political candidates that might run for presidency in 2009? It would really interest me, at least!

One small correction as far as the English and French colonizers were concerned: they left behind highly centralized states and the vast majority of cities didnīt have the appeal the numerous cities in Angola had at that time (at least from the many photos I have seen), there werenīt any city planners in most former English and French colonies, You only had one big city in the vast majority of the countries and the rest was only bush and/or deep jungle! That was the sad truth! (Nigeria might be an exception due to its big population at the time of independence with more than 50 million people)

As far as Mugabe is concerned, I totally share your viewpoint but some people might even have forgotten that he was once a respected and important and intelligent political figure in Africa many people pinned their hopes upon and even the West praised him! You see what he turned into, again one of the poster-childs of African development?

SAPAT
March 17th, 2007, 05:35 PM
South Africans can do without sanctimonious lectures on their history from you Offodile!

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 19th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Agreed!

Kenguy
March 22nd, 2007, 01:13 PM
Zimbabwe bleeds, but Africa turns blind eye

Source: Daily Nation

Publication Date: 3/22/2007

The unfolding events in Zimbabwe in the past few weeks illustrate the depths of repression and political intolerance raging in a country that once stood as a shining hope for Africa. The brutal attacks on opposition chief Morgan Tsvangirai and a few others slightly over a week ago, and the violent events that followed meant Zimbabwe is sliding fast to anarchy.

Only at the weekend, the administration went on to stop three opposition personalities from travelling — two to South Africa and one to Belgium — by seizing their passports and literally grounding them at Harare airport in separate incidents.

In the meantime, the Robert Mugabe government has been spinning horrendous tales about the opposition chiefs, saying how they have been involved in bloody plots to seize power from him through the gun.

For the past decade or so, the octogenarian President has perfected the art of political intolerance, manifested in the ruthless handling of opponents — real and imagined.

When he felt it expedient, he orchestrated a land grab campaign that saw the so-called War Veterans take over land from white settlers in a disguise of a land reform programme. And whenever challenged, he has vociferously attacked the West, specifically Britain’s Tony Blair and America’s George Bush for plotting his ouster and impoverishing Zimbabweans.

But the naked truth is that Zimbabwe’s problems are squarely a result of oppressive political, social and economic policies. President Mugabe has presided over an administration that looted the country’s enormous wealth, stifled any form of dissent and aggressively fended off any external intervention to restore sanity to the country.

With an inflation rate of 1,700 per cent and acute shortage of all essential commodities, Zimbabwe stands out as a sore thumb on the continent. Sadly, Africa has stood aside and kept an odious silence as Zimbabweans suffer injustices and indignity.

African Union, which has been pushing for peer review mechanism to tame belligerent leaders under the auspices of Nepad, has done nothing. Not even the Southern African Development Community.

For how long will Zimbabwe bleed? Is Zimbabwe being relegated to a place that time has forgotten.

Durbsboi
March 26th, 2007, 01:04 PM
What in Gods name happen to my thread? this suppose to be a photo thread!

oh well, as long as its alive :)

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM
Zimbabwe bleeds, but Africa turns blind eye

Source: Daily Nation

Publication Date: 3/22/2007

The unfolding events in Zimbabwe in the past few weeks illustrate the depths of repression and political intolerance raging in a country that once stood as a shining hope for Africa. The brutal attacks on opposition chief Morgan Tsvangirai and a few others slightly over a week ago, and the violent events that followed meant Zimbabwe is sliding fast to anarchy.....
For how long will Zimbabwe bleed? Is Zimbabwe being relegated to a place that time has forgotten.

Thanks Kenguy for this article which shows that Africans also are sick and tired of Mugabe's regime and want a change in Zimbabwe just like the rest of the world does.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 26th, 2007, 08:26 PM
What in Gods name happen to my thread? this suppose to be a photo thread!

oh well, as long as its alive :)

That's good, although I'm sorry it had to change to a discussion thread.
Maybe folks are less interested in seeing Mugabe's glossed-over buildings and want to know more about the crisis happening there and want to know how on heaven's earth this dictactor can hang onto power for so long while his own people are destitute and starving.
Maybe if the people of Zimbabwe rise up and overthrow this power-crazed madman and restore democracy to this country we can once again enjoy the scenic beauty of this country.

Durbsboi
March 28th, 2007, 02:23 PM
ooooooookay, anyone seen this months Construction Review Magazine? they focus this month is on the Joina Center in Harare, lovely building :okay:

Tbite
March 28th, 2007, 02:31 PM
how tall will it be:)

Mosi-oa-Tunya
March 29th, 2007, 01:25 AM
I'll post it in Southern African Development Thread

Kenguy
March 30th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Meikles Department Store
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8669/harare1zo8.jpg

Street scene in Harare
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8493/harare2qk7.jpg

The Joina Centre
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5343/harare3ft5.jpg

^^
The Joina Centre had been posed earlier. I wonder how far they are in completing it. By the way, what is that on top of the building? Is it a helipad or an observation deck?

StormShadow
April 8th, 2007, 10:34 AM
Meikles Hotel
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/351907809_a88186f9dd_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/351908014_34447a7617_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/351908277_1da00dd2fc_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/351908517_6d1e0ba50e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/351909776_1517b91b11_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/351911575_c21daf44a5_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/351912225_bbb4abc191_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/351912410_64b90b3241_b.jpg

StormShadow
April 8th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Gweru, Zimbabwe
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/351915973_e07160e41d_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/351915761_e21e42c717_b.jpg

Bulawayo, Zimbabwe
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/281524463_c7dc19a1d9_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/281525196_468b91a45b_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/281523925_2f02d0b576_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/281524141_325d42b03e_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/91/281523090_d4ca1a9ef1_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/83/281523532_18fbac0e59_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/92/281524872_9b97342b3a_b.jpg

Matthias Offodile
April 8th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Stormshadow, thanks for showing us other pics than Harare, I didnīt know that there were other well-developed and nice-looing cities in Zimbabwe, besides Harare.

But again I canīt shake off the feeling that the country is suffering so hard. The streets are almost all clean and buildings still look well-maintained....but some people look desperate and poor on the pics.

Zimbabweīs foundations must really have been very solid 10-15 years back otherwise the country would look completely different from what one can see here.

Take this picture, this could be in any thriving and newly emerging market economy in the world, if not even somewhere in Europe or North America....it even looks more modern than surrounding cities in the sub-region, like Gaborone or even Windhoek!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/351907809_a88186f9dd_b.jpg

StormShadow
April 8th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Stormshadow, thanks for showing us other pics than Harare, I didnīt know that there were other well-developed and nice-looing cities in Zimbabwe, besides Harare.

But again I canīt shake off the feeling that the country is suffering so hard. The streets are almost all clean and buildings still look well-maintained....but some people look desperate and poor on the pics.

Zimbabweīs foundations must really have been very solid 10-15 years back otherwise the country would look completely different from what one can see here.

Take this picture, this could be in any thriving and newly emerging market economy in the world, if not even somewhere in Europe or North America....it even looks more modern than surrounding cities in the sub-region, like Gaborone or even Windhoek!

Bulawayo is the 2nd largest city in Zimbabwe, after Harare. It quite developed than I previously thought. The minor cities or towns such as Gweru, Mutare and Masvingo look well also, it's just difficult to find images of those other cities on the net.

Hard to shake off indeed. Judging by the recent images of it's cities that are well maintained and even it's department of streets and sanitation seem to be doing a good job in keeping it's cities healthy looking for the most part, judging from the images.

I agree. It's urban centers would of appeared different today if it's development got started in recent years and it depends because it's high inflation and economic plunge.

Yes, it's downtown appears to be very developed, a few unique high rises also. Windhoek and Gaborone lacks the "talls" like Harare has. One would think it would be the economic center of the region.

StormShadow
April 8th, 2007, 09:41 PM
Mutare, Zimbabwe

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Leopard Rock Hotel-Casino
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Africa University Entrance
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The chapel at Africa University
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Africa University Library
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StormShadow
April 8th, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Would this pano photo make a good banner ?
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skytrax
April 9th, 2007, 01:54 AM
wow!!! what a beautiful city is Harare

Carver02
April 9th, 2007, 06:06 AM
Well Matthias you must believe the rhetoric of the Africanists controlling the Western Cape ANC, who are still being stung by their defeat by Mayor Helen Zille of the Democratic Alliance (DA), which won the municipal poll for Cape Town last year. Certainly there are hotheads like Tony Erhleigh of the Western Cape Cosatu who bluster about land in Hout Bay but their politics are out of favor in the Cape as Mayor Helen Zille is popular with both blacks and whites as she can effectively run a city. She is even admired by some black Africans in the ANC who admit that their own party, at least in the Western Cape, is a total mess. And the coloureds, they are not happy with the ANC either. In the recent Hout Bay local by-election won by the DA, the DA polled over 75% of the coloured vote while the ANC saw it's share of the coloured vote cut by two thirds since last year's poll. So the Mugabe-style populist rantings certainly do not go down well with these people.Mosi: The ANC was not "stung" by their defeat in the Western Cape. The Coloureds are a plurality in the Western Cape, thus the ANC has always struggled there. Due to the imperialist/white supremacist mentality, many of the coloured do not want to identify with the ANC and with blacks. "Stung" implies that the ANC was suprised; there was no reason for anyone to be suprised.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
April 9th, 2007, 07:59 PM
Mosi: The ANC was not "stung" by their defeat in the Western Cape. The Coloureds are a plurality in the Western Cape, thus the ANC has always struggled there. Due to the imperialist/white supremacist mentality, many of the coloured do not want to identify with the ANC and with blacks. "Stung" implies that the ANC was suprised; there was no reason for anyone to be suprised.

Coloureds are not a plurality in the Western Cape and still constitute almost 55% of the population in the province even though they are less than 9% in SA as a whole. The ANC was "stung" when it was ousted from power in the City of Cape Town in last year's municipal poll when the DA received more votes than the ruling party and formed a coalition with six other parties to take over the city. Ever since, the ANC has lost ground in other municipalities in the Western Cape and now control only 10 out 30 municipalities (before the municipal poll the ANC ran 24 municipalities including Cape Town) while the DA is now preparing to take control of Drakenstein (Paarl, Wellington) after an ANC-led coalition collapsed last week.

The Western Cape ANC is in disarray between the moderates led by provincial Premier Ebrahim Rasool and the radical Africanists led by Mcebisis Skwatsha, the latter of which are dividing the ruling party by forcing themselves on the party. The party's coloured support base has collapsed as a result. It is because of the the infighting within the ANC that will cost them the provincial election in 2009 with the prospect that the DA will replicate an opposition-based multiparty coalition in the Western Cape in the same fashion that has proven successful for them in Cape Town since Helen Zille won the mayorship last year.

Matthias Offodile
April 10th, 2007, 08:36 PM
wow!!! what a beautiful city is Harare

Your own country or Luanda to be more precise could have been much much nicer without the war, a unique mixture between Brazil and Africa on our continent!:)

Matthias Offodile
April 10th, 2007, 08:38 PM
wow!!! what a beautiful city is Harare

Skytrax, Your own country or Luanda to be more precise could have been much much nicer without the war, a unique mixture between Brazil and Africa on our continent!:)

Carver02
April 11th, 2007, 06:23 AM
Coloureds are not a plurality in the Western Cape and still constitute almost 55% of the population in the province even though they are less than 9% in SA as a whole.Yes, a majority is a plurality, by definition.

mike2005
April 12th, 2007, 03:41 PM
The ANC lost cape town becasue it was racist and corrupt and it was totally shocked when it lost (it was so arrogant it did not realsie that people hated the way it was running the city). Its shock can be seen in its 7 attempts to bring down mayor Zille since the election (and every attempt just shows how power hungry it is and simply results in it losing more support)

The coloureds stopped voting for the ANC as the ANC was sacking people on the basis of their skin colour and replacing them with under qualified political placemen! It was appointing cronies to run the police (the mayor appointed her brother to run the metro police!!!) it was handing out houses built for the poor to party spporters many of whom were wealthy (this happened in the N2 gateway project) and because it was so corrupt it held all meetings behind closed doors and refused to let the public see the records of those meetings (so naturally everyone realised that they had something to hide) and finally the mayors chief of staff when on a long rant that was published in the cape argus about how clourds where drunked and violent and how he viewed them as scum. (The mayor refused to sack him!!!!!!!)

Thsoe are the reasons why the ANC is crumbling in the cape (along with the fact that the black faction in the ANC in the cape is constantly trying to undermine the coloured provincial premier and even sides with the opposition to vote against him sometimes!!)

Now we have a genuine multi racial and non racial coalition running CTwhose meetings and minutes are open to the public, who has started a outside audit of all tender processes and who have stopped the policy of sacking skilled people like engineers due to their race. (And in 2009 we will have the same running the province)


If the ANC was not so racist it would still run the cape as things stand it will lose the cape. Simple.

The cape is the only province that votes on delivery and not skin colour ( in the rest of SA blacks vote ANC/ Whites vote DA due to race) and it the only province where racist policies are viewed as wrong (affirmative action etc is a vote loser in the cape) Thats why the ANC support is collapsing in die wes kaap!

Mosi-oa-Tunya
April 13th, 2007, 02:00 AM
Mike,

You are right about that!

Within the last three months the ANC has lost control of seven municipalities in the Western Cape to new coalitions led by the DA:

Knysna, Kannaland, Berg River, Beaufort West, Kannaland, Laingsberg, Central Karoo District Municipality.

You probably heard recently in the press that the ANC will lose control of Drakenstein (Paarl, Wellington) to a DA-led coalition. The loss of Drakenstein will be the biggest blow to the ANC since it lost Cape Town as it's the second most populous municipality (pop. 195,000) in the province and has an industrial base too.

StormShadow
April 13th, 2007, 04:03 AM
Harare Streets
dpleYaCOkqg

Matthias Offodile
April 20th, 2007, 01:54 PM
While I was searching for something different, I stumbled over the video, showing Zimbabwe 30 years ago, maybe this is of interest to somebody.:)


iYDg3ofh7dM

popa1980
April 20th, 2007, 02:52 PM
The "good old days" of Rhodesia. Seriously though, my Dad was there in the 80s and he could tell that thimgs were going to end the wat they did. I hope Mugabe chokes and dies.

mike2005
April 21st, 2007, 08:23 PM
its a tough one: yup Rhodesia was bad but mugabe's human rights record is worse than smiths and the average black zimbabwean was far better off under smith than they are now (inflation 1700%, unemployment 85%,the average weekly wage for those who do have a job just enough to buy a loaf of bread, and massed slum clearances that left the poor homeless and with nowhere to go) It perhaps shows just how bad mugabe is that Rhodesia was better.

aoa
April 21st, 2007, 10:08 PM
,,,

aoa
April 21st, 2007, 10:18 PM
...

mike2005
April 22nd, 2007, 01:24 PM
Firstly what are these crippling sanctions?!!!!!! How on earth can travel bans on a few politicians bring down an economy?????????????????????????????????????????
And how on earth has the MDC caused economic collapse with a few protests. They are not violent but DESPERATE as you would be if over half the population is now officially classed as starving by the UN with no jobs, no food, and in the cities no shelter after mugabes slum clear out.

Secondly SA has a far worse drought at the moment and you have not seen its economy collapse.

Thirdly in 1980 the average black Zimbabwean had purchasing power parity earnings of more than 10 times what they have today and the human develpment index of the country was multiples of what it is now. Life expectancy was much higher and emplyment was much higher.

Forthly wealth is now destroyed rather than concentrated in small number of peoples hands. What would you prefer? At least then there was a trickle down effect in terms of foreign exchange earnings that could be spent on schools, hospitals etc for the poor now that has all gone the poor have suffered just as much as those who owned the farms etc and in actual fact probably more so.

And most importantly I AM ZIMBABWEAN having grown up there (altho I now live in SA as well as having lived in the UK and USA)


And I did not condone Rhodesia I said it shows just how evil Mugabe is that people were better off under smith who was a complete bastard.. did smith ever do something like the matabeleland slaughter in the 1980s? did smith ever bulldoze entire shanty towns and leave people with NOTHING but rubble? (if you dont know about the matableleland thing then perhaps you should read up on how mugabe sent in north korean trained troops into the south and killed between 8,000 and 20,000 to teach the matabele a lesson. And do you know what he did:he had them burn alive entire vilages but alwasy had a young child watch as they piled everyone into one hut and set it alight so that child knew never to question Mugabe again. I remeber driving to my uncles farm in the south as a very young child and smelling burnt flesh and asking my uncle what it was and he said it was burning cattle. But it wasnt and I found out many years later that Mugabes men had paid a visit to the local tribal trust land area the night before. It is something that I have never forgotten)

The tragedy of Zim is that Rhodesia was bad and just when you thought we had freedom Mugabe turns out to be worse. And please tell me some stats and facts that prove me wrong on that? Under what catagories are people now better off in 2007 than they were in 1980???? (and please dont say dignity and freedom: the only difference now is that they are being tortured by a black guy rather than a white guy and when you have electodes on your gentitals I really dont think that makes much difference!!!!)

mike2005
April 22nd, 2007, 01:28 PM
....

Matthias Offodile
April 22nd, 2007, 03:57 PM
Aoa, Mike2005 is Zimbabwean for all I know, so he should know his country better than you do!

I was at a loss for words while reading that your are generally in favour of the Mugabe regime, at least you are alluding to it implicitly! Zimbabwe has turned out to be an open bleeding wound on the continent. Mugabe is among the worst dictators our continent has ever seen; undoubtedly on par with Idi Amin and Mobuto of Ex-Zaire. While the population lives a threadbare existence with sky-rocketting inflation numbers, the Big Man is gleefully throwing one multi-million dollar party after the next, and sends his beloved ones and patrons on vast shopping sprees abroad. This situation is utterly untenable!

Here are a few articles that speak for themselves!

Zimbabwe Life Expectancy Lowest In The World

Main Category: Public Health News
Article Date: 10 Apr 2006 - 15:00 PDT
| email this article | printer friendly | view or write opinions |


In Zimbabwe, female life expectancy stands at 34 years, while for males it is 37 years. According to a report issued by the United Nations, Zimbabwe has the lowest life expectancy in the world.

Over the last two years, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), life expectancy for women has dropped by two years.

Experts believe this is due to two main factors (among others):

1. The country's economy has been deteriorating without any sign of any improvement.

2. AIDS/HIV (even though there has been a recent drop in numbers)

Women are much more likely to be infected with HIV than men (in Zimbabwe).

Compared with Japan, where average life-expectancy now stands at 82, the situation in Zimbabwe is tragic.

It is a very sad state of affairs. Zimbabwe used to be one of the richest countries in Africa.

A decade ago Zimbabwe's economy was almost twice as big as it is now.

A lady who lives in Zimbabwe wrote this email to us (she wished to remain anonymous):
'Zimbabwe used to be a place with so much hope, its future looked wonderful. As a black woman I really felt we were going somewhere. A man took over and gradually turned into a monster. He has torn the place to pieces - like a cat playing with a squeaking mouse. It is a tragedy.'

Written by: Christian Nordqvist
Editor: Medical News Today



The wasteland - inside Mugabe's crumbling state


At the end of a week that saw protests violently crushed, Chris McGreal reports from Bulawayo on a nation sliding into chaos

Saturday March 17, 2007
The Guardian


Among the many signs of a country sliding into chaos, one has gone largely unnoticed: Zimbabwe's morgues are filling up. It's not only that more people are dying, but also that the families of those who are cannot afford to pay their medical bills any longer. To escape them, relatives are registering the sick under false names. When they die, the bodies cannot be claimed.

The practice is just one of the increasingly desperate measures Zimbabweans are taking to survive in a collapsing economy where inflation runs at 1,700% a year and the value of local currency can plummet in a few hours.


Most of those who can have left the country in search of a means of survival, or at least made plans to do so. Typical of the estimated 3m Zimbabweans who have left - two-thirds of the country's working-age population from doctors and teachers to farm labourers and soldiers - are Mbongani Ntzombane's sons.

They headed south across the Limpopo river, bribing their way into South Africa, and then sent word to their siblings that Johannesburg might not be the promised land but it at least offered hope.

Soon the able-bodied began to empty out of Mandluntsha in southern Zimbabwe. Today, 13 of the 25-strong Ntzombane family have decamped from the village to Johannesburg in an effort to help the very young and old left struggling at home.

"My children send 50 or 100 rand a time, or sugar or rice," said Mr Ntzombane in his three-roomed home set among the parched maize fields of Matabeleland. A pile of car batteries in the living room provide the only electricity.

"It is hard for them to find work when they get there so they do not have a lot to give. But it is better than staying here with no food and no job and Robert Mugabe."

The bulk of those who leave slip into South Africa, posing as tourists and traders if they have passports and jumping the border if they do not. But anywhere that holds out the prospect of a job is a destination: Namibia, Botswana, London.

What these exiles send back in remittances to their families in Zimbabwe is staving off the total collapse of an economy subjected to the world's highest inflation rate and starved of hard currency to keep basic services afloat.

Even some of Mugabe's most trusted allies are warning that his attempts to paint Zimbabwe as thriving and flush with food is a delusion as inflation wipes out the middle class and malnutrition claims the lives of children in what were once some of the country's wealthiest cities.

The brutal reality of what the exiles have left behind was laid bare this week as opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, and others were severely beaten by the police and arrested on their way to a mass protest against the government. The US and South Africa condemned the assaults as pictures of Mr Tsvangirai's smashed and swollen head prompted outrage overseas. The opposition described the beatings as a turning point in the struggle to force Mr Mugabe from power.

Many ordinary Zimbabweans are not so sure. Their president still looks firmly entrenched to them and popular confidence in the opposition has been sapped over the years since it failed to capitalise on widespread anger when Mr Mugabe stole the 2002 presidential election.

Today, in villages such as Mandluntsha, daily life is instead consumed by the struggle to eat and finding the money for medicines and to keep the children in school. With it there is a growing fear that diminishing food supplies will soon again be used as a political weapon by Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF party against his most vulnerable opponents.

It is not only the poor who rely on money from abroad. Even in some of Zimbabwe's larger cities, such as Bulawayo, a once prosperous middle class has largely been eradicated by the fastest shrinking economy in the world.

A couple of years ago the supermarket shelves were bare but the problem today is not so much supply as the cash to afford what is available.

Vulnerable opponents

Felix Mafa, a 60 year-old former college lecturer in Bulawayo, has sold his cars and relies on a son who is a doctor in the US and another who is a shop manager in Namibia to send money to feed the rest of the family. "Instead of being independent I am sustained by my children. It's deplorable. It lowers my esteem as a father. I feel sorry that they have to look after me and my wife," he said.

"I'm a professional. I had cars and two houses. I sold my cars to pay for my other children to go to school. I gave one of my houses to my eldest son. He married and cannot afford a bed let alone a house."

"No matter how educated we are, there's no middle class. I cannot invite people to my house because what will they eat? There's the rich and the poor, and the rich are a few people connected to Zanu-PF who got it through corruption."

Many people are afraid to accuse Mr Mugabe directly, fearing retaliation. Among the recent curbs on freedom of speech is a law effectively barring criticism of the president, and it is used by the police. But people make it clear who they hold responsible.

Mr Mafa has a particular grievance. His son was among about 20,000 people killed when Mr Mugabe unleashed the army on Matabeleland in the 1980s to suppress opposition. "I think things have to be done non-violently, through negotiation between Zanu-PF and the opposition. If not, then sooner or later things will go to a civil war which will be terrible. But sometimes I wonder if that's what some of our leaders want," he said.

Mr Mugabe has hailed the violent seizure of white-owned farms that were once crucial to feeding the country, and their redistribution to small scale black farmers and the ruling party elite, as "completed successfully". He declared that the farmers have produced a "bumper harvest". Zimbabwe's president has also boasted that the economy is being wrestled from foreign control and his finance minister predicted economic growth this year.

But the reality was described by Mr Mugabe's ally, the reserve bank governor, Gideon Gono, who told parliament he is struggling to keep electricity on. He said there is no money to keep air force planes in the air, or to put unserviceable police cars back on the road. And 300,000 people are waiting for passports because there is no paper or ink to issue them.

Mr Gono warned that inflation could drive Zimbabwe's economy down "to levels never dreamt before". The International Monetary Fund predicts that prices could rise by 4,000% this year.

The reserve bank governor said he received constant pleas from food and petrol distributors, the national airline and the railways for foreign currency that has all but dried up because tobacco exports, once Zimbabwe's biggest source of US dollars, have fallen to a fifth of what they were before the land seizures. The other big earner, tourism, has also collapsed.

Mr Gono said the power company warned him: "If you don't give us money the nation will be in darkness."

But the money is not there and the bank's first priority is to use hard currency to buy maize because famine is looming. Drought and mismanagement has left Zimbabwe with less than half of the maize it needs to feed the country.

"If we were talking about local currency, I would say, 'Don't worry, in the next 30 minutes we will print money,'" said Mr Gono. But he said he is not in a position to print American dollars or British pounds.

Officially the Zimbabwe dollar is pegged at a steady 250 to the US dollar. But on the black market it is in freefall, diving from Z$3,000 to $1 in early February to about Z$12,000 yesterday.

Savings were long ago wiped out but now even salaries are frequently worthless. It often costs more to pay the bus fare to work than people earn.

Zimbabwe's doctors went on strike for weeks because their salaries eroded to the value of seven cans of baked beans a month. They returned to work only after their pay was increased to about Ģ110 a month - while two-thirds of the population survives on 60p or less a day.

Many hospitals have lost more than half their doctors, and nurses often report to work no more than twice a week because they cannot afford the bus fares.

Bulawayo's main hospital, the UBH, has such a shortage of medicines that patients are required to bring their own. "There are patients dying of dehydration for want of a drip," said a doctor. "We can't treat diabetes any more. The nurses are unhappy because there are no gloves when they are handling patients with Aids."

Doctors say that all that is keeping the hospitals going are the junior doctors who need to stay to complete their qualifications and a few senior staff who remain out of humanitarian considerations.

Salaries worthless

Many have made their way to South Africa or Britain where their qualifications are valued. It is the same with teachers. One school near Bulawayo reported that 10 teachers left in a single week. All are assumed to have gone to South Africa where there is a teacher shortage.

The poorly-educated are not so lucky. Nobuhle Mpala's two room house in Makokoba township on the edge of Bulawayo is shared by 12 people, three generations, all living off the meagre earnings of the street trader. They include her sister's two children after their mother died of Aids last year. Ms Mpala has a four-year-old whose father left before he was born.

Where the family used to eat meat a few times a week, it now survives almost entirely on one main meal of vegetables a day. "I sell maize when I can get it, and tomatoes. It makes me about 80,000 dollars a month. Maybe 300,000 dollars a month would be enough to live. There are loan clubs so I borrow from them. At the end of the month you have to pay them back with 50%. If we can't then they charge more interest.

"We are not living softly because of the party that is ruling us. It is not a fair government. They get rich while we get poor. They should go. People want them to go," said Ms Mpala.

The governors of Matabeleland's two provinces have appealed to the government to declare them disaster areas because the crop has failed.

Drought has wiped out almost all the maize in the southern province and badly hit the crop in the north. But Mr Gono also blames those who took over formerly white-owned farms for a broader national food crisis which is expected to leave Zimbabwe with less than half of the maize it needs for this year. Already 1.4m people are dependent on food aid.

In Mandluntsha village, there is no crop at all this year. The headman, Ludidi Ntzombane, an 88-year-old who seeks protection from the relentless sun under a white pith helmet, endured 11 years in Ian Smith's prison for political agitation against white rule. Robert Mugabe jailed him for another four during the 1980s assault on Matabeleland.

None of that has broken Mr Ntzombane's defiance but he knows that the coming year will be difficult. Without food, the village will have to sell its only asset, the precious livestock.

Theoretically, maize donated by the World Food Programme is distributed without political favour but in Mandluntsha they have a different experience. A Zimbabwean state organisation hands out the food.

"The lorry comes and it doesn't have enough so they say they are giving it to the people with Aids," said Mr Ntzombane. "But we look at who gets it and we know it is political. They want to punish us for not supporting Mugabe."

The Zanu-PF party has tried to pressure the headmen and chiefs in the area into backing the party and getting their villagers to vote for it.

"The party is trying to force the chiefs and the headmen to work with the government. They are forcing us to go to meetings where they tell the chiefs and the headmen what to tell the people. They tell us to tell people to back the party or they will have problems," he said.

"The threats are tied to food. They threaten not to give food to anyone who doesn't support Zanu-PF. That's the pressure; somebody who is not a member of Zanu-PF is regarded as an enemy of the government."

The headman says that the local Zanu-PF councillor, Thomas Nyilika, arrives periodically to pile on the pressure. Sometimes the party youth militia, the "green bombers", turn up in an attempt to intimidate the villagers, particularly when there is an election in the offing.

"People here are afraid to say what they think. They are beaten up for criticising the government. They are not free," said Mr Ntzombane.

Facts of life

37 Life expectancy at birth in Zimbabwe

60 Average life expectancy in 1990

81 The infant mortality rate (deaths per 1,000 live births), compared with 53 in 1990

$340 The national income, per person, compared with $4,960 in South Africa

5.5m Zimbabweans live with HIV

1.1 m Children have been orphaned by Aids

6 People out of every 100 have a phone, compared with 47 in South Africa

56% Of the population earn less than $1 a day, compared with 11% of South Africans

· Source: Unicef


PS: I am not an expert on Zimbabwe but I think that the people of that country really deserve better than the disastruous social reality on the ground and the horrors Mugabe brought to that nation.

aoa
April 22nd, 2007, 09:22 PM
...

aoa
April 22nd, 2007, 10:04 PM
..

mike2005
April 22nd, 2007, 11:35 PM
I actually agree with many of your points you made just then, esp about the MDC who I think are a joke. I like you hope that one day things will get better and one day all zimbabweans will be welcome to contribute to the country whatever their political beliefs or race. Sadly I think that day is still along way off.

Matthias Offodile
April 23rd, 2007, 01:50 PM
Firstly, since you are not Zimbabwean, should I even respond to your post? According to your flawed logic, only people from a country can comment on or be knowledgeable concerning events therein. Apart from having a doctorate and Masters in the Social Sciences, and a second Masters with a partial concentration in Intl Health (in the final scheme of things, this background could be extraneous to the discussion at hand), I have studied the political-economy of development in Zimbabwe and beyond extensively. So, while I do not always fully know the nuances of events in every country, I am well-read enough to 'know what I DO know'.

Secondly and perhaps more importantly, I NEVER 'sanctioned' (no pun intended) the Mugabe regime; please read my original post carefully and closely! My main point of departure with Mike is that Zimbabweans of African descent somehow were 'better off' under Smith's rule. Even in South Africa and Botswana, HIV/AIDS remain a serious problem and life expectancy there is also lower for certain segments of the population. I have worked with the Batswana population in a different context and have a general understanding of the problems that they confront in this regard, despite their 'wealth'. The violence in South Africa has further compounded the problem there and obviously poses some threat to the sustainability of their remarkable 'development'.

In conclusion, and I really do not have the time to belabour this point (I joined this forum to indulge my passion for architecture!!), simply demonizing Mugabe and romanticizing the opposition are not tactics that will redress the dire situation in Zimbabwe. This path is just too slothful and simplistic in my humble opinion. I clearly understand that the opposition that is being lauded today could become the 'enemy of progress' tomorrow. In actuality, the problems are institutional, structural, historical and certainly international in scope. Is the situation in Zimbabwe dire? Yes!!!!!!! Could it be resolved in the medium term? Of course! I come from the constructivist school and my approach is very much holistic. I prefer analyses that are sophisticated and extend the debate beyond individuals.

Peace out and many thanks!

Aoa, After having meticulously brooded over your academic musings on Zimbabwe, I have to admit whole-heartedly that I might have jumped hastily too shallow conclusions which have categorically proven me wrong woefully! So first of all, I am frightfully awfully sorry for it, sir!:)

Firstly, your academic exposure perfectly mirrors your cunningly sharp, startingly thought-provoking, awe-inspiringly well-balanced and above all tremendously logical line of thought.

Secondly, both of us have enjoyed the ultimate privilege of daintily attending the well-established higher instituions of (global) learning which has set our minds to flourish beyond the confines of “main-stream obedience” in the brighest manner currently accessible. (something which is still denied to the so-called “aspiring have-nots” of our at times highly and dauntingly unjust planet, regrettably).
In other terms, we do have more in common than I initially anticipated. As an English locution goes which I have the lightness of heart to cite here :" Birds of identical plumage cheerily and cozily flock together."

Thirdly, as you are of Nigerian descent, I do wilfully pin my hopes upon your future contributions on Nigeria in particular and considering - your marvellously extensive academic background - on Africa as a whole.

Skyprince
April 23rd, 2007, 02:31 PM
Of course Zimbabwe is a very exciting country, it has nice city of Harare, vibrant gaming sector and others,

But is that true the majority of Zimbabweans suffering from high inflation ? I read a lot of articles about inflation in Zim-- sometimes exceeding 1000% year on year.

I also know about the policy of chasing some Zimbabweans out of the country because of the colour. I think this should be undone. Skin colour is not important at all. Everyone regardless of colour should be unified under the same national identity and spirit :)

My regards to Zimbabwe and all Zimbabwean people-- a very unique country with fantastic people and wonderful landscape :)

Zim Flyer
April 24th, 2007, 12:43 PM
I think it's time Aoa spent some time in Zimbabwe and I don't mean a quick drive through, I mean staying a few weeks in the high density areas of Mbari in Harare or Sakubva or Dangamvura in Mutare.

I've heard alot of Black Zimbabwean's say that life was better in Rhodesia for them then it is under Mugabe, where money actually was worth something and food was affordable.

Sure things were not heaven either and Rhodesia has many flaws.

But it's ironic that the more Mugabe has undone the capitalist structures of colonialism as he calls them the poorer the country has become.

If Zimbabwe was a company it would have been closed down years ago and it's directors and chairman arrested for embesslement.

As for your comments on sanctions, that is laughable. How come Rhodesia survived under the far harsher sanctions imposed on them then the punative sancations put on the Zimbabwean Government today.

Zimbabwe is fucked not because of colonialism, not because of the white man, not because of Tony Blair but because of one man and his total obsession and blood lust for power and that man is Robert Mugabe.

pasi ne mugabe pamberi ne MDC

Matthias Offodile
April 24th, 2007, 01:12 PM
A nice tourism video of Zimbabwe, showing the countryīs beautiful landscape and orderly cities. (it probably dates back to the late 80īs or early 90īs)



NvfDJ2nQgDQ

aoa
April 24th, 2007, 01:40 PM
.....

aoa
April 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM
....

bollyking
April 26th, 2007, 02:58 PM
some nice photos...zanu pf is nothing but a useless corrupt mafia and the day they go will be a great day for Zimbabweans

StormShadow
May 13th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Bulawayo, Zimbabwe

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/362438689_1814016190_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/421044505_b4c38ba8a8_b.jpg

Kenguy
May 14th, 2007, 01:03 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/407635729_7aa0ea0f01_m.jpg

StormShadow
June 14th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Harare International Airport
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1052/539737162_608ff9b2f1_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1435/539851017_7504bfcda6_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1437/539851147_65569a8cd2_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1090/539736660_e9b7795220_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1010/539851809_85c34260b3_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1108/539736164_66c791b076_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1345/539850627_cfcfdc3934_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/539850573_2de5e5e51b_o.jpg

CentraLine
June 30th, 2007, 11:38 PM
What a waste of a good country.

Carver02
July 1st, 2007, 04:27 AM
Does anyone know what that last pic is of? ...Some government building, apparently.

meghnarmajhi
July 5th, 2007, 04:58 PM
This is great..... love to visit someday.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
July 6th, 2007, 11:22 PM
This is great..... love to visit someday.

We'll that someday will have to be sometime after Mugabe dies or is assassinated.

Kenguy
July 7th, 2007, 09:25 AM
We'll that someday will have to be sometime after Mugabe dies or is assassinated.
^^
Zim's elections are next year. I hope he leaves through the ballot.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
July 9th, 2007, 06:02 PM
^^
Zim's elections are next year. I hope he leaves through the ballot.

Don' hope too much as he rigged the previous three elections: 2000 & 2005 parliamentary and 2002 presidential. I do not think things will be any different in 2008, only maybe that the economic situation is so bad that it may provoke people to reject a Mugabe victory through fraud. It is the collapsed economy, not just the opposition MDC that is the biggest threat to Mugabe holding onto power at all cost.

DanteXavier
July 11th, 2007, 08:43 PM
^^
Zim's elections are next year. I hope he leaves through the ballot.

Yeah, mosi is right. There is no way Mugabe actually allows the election to run him out. He'll rig it, bribe opponents, kill them, threaten, whatever it takes. He's not leaving that easily.

Mosi-oa-Tunya
July 17th, 2007, 11:29 PM
Robert Gabriel Mugabe

http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Mugabe/pna_77wnowe.jpg

Fact Sheet

Name: Robert Gabriel Mugabe
Country (s) Controlled: Zimbabwe
Birthday: February 21, 1924
Died: Living
Dates in Power: March 4, 1980- current
How Leader Came into Power: Elected
Classification: Autocrat
Nuclear Capability: no
Major Achievements: Successfully drove
the economy of Southern Rhodesia into ruin
after the transition to Zimbabwe, known for
numerous human rights offenses against his
people.
Score Card (click here for the explanations)

Charisma/ Popularity: 2.38
Danger Rating (Foreign policy): 2,06
Oppression Rating (Internal policy): 3.69
Number of Domestic victims: 2,63
Longevity: 5
Economics: 1.38
Notoriety/ Infamy: 2.38
Statesman Factor: 1.14
Extremism: 3,71
Progressiveness: 1.29
Total score (50 max): 25.64

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Early life
Mugabe's father is believed to have been from Malawi. Mugabe was raised at Kutama Mission, Zvimba District, north-west of Harare (then called Salisbury), in then Southern Rhodesia. He was raised as a Roman Catholic and was educated in Jesuit schools. He qualified as a teacher at age 17, but left to study for a B.A. in English and history at Fort Hare University in South Africa, graduating in 1951. He then studied at Drifontein in 1952, Salisbury (1953), Gwelo (1954), in Tanzania (1955 - 1957). Along the way, he obtained a diploma and a bachelor's degree in education from the University of South Africa and another bachelor's degree in economics from the University of London, all by correspondence. Subsequently, Mugabe taught in a teacher-training school in Accra, Ghana (1958-1960) where he met Sally Hayfron, his first wife. [edit]

Anti-Colonial Struggle

Returning to Southern Rhodesia in 1960 as a committed Marxist, Mugabe joined Joshua Nkomo and the National Democratic Party (NDP), which later became the Zimbabwe African Peoples Union (ZAPU), both immediately banned by authorities. He left ZAPU in 1963 to form the rival Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) with Reverend Ndabaningi Sithole and lawyer Herbert Chitepo - a split along tribal lines between the Ndebele and his Shona. ZANU leader Sitole nominated Mugabe as his Secretary General.

He was detained with other nationalist leaders in 1964 and remained in prison for ten years, where he studied law. On his release he left Rhodesia for Mozambique in 1974 and led the Chinese-financed military arm of ZANU, the Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army (ZANLA), in the war against the Ian Smith government.

On 18 March 1975, lawyer and ZANU leader Herbert Chitepo, who had avoided detention, was assassinated by a bomb placed in his car while in Zambia and Mugabe was nominated to lead the party. After squabbling with Sithole, he became leader of a militant ZANU faction, leaving Sithole to lead the moderate Zanu (Ndonga) party, who renounced violent struggle. [edit]

Prime Minister, then Executive President

Persuasion from B.J. Vorster, himself under pressure from Henry Kissinger, forced Smith to accept in principle that white minority rule could not continue indefinitely. On March 3, 1978 Bishop Abel Muzorewa, Ndabaningi Sithole and other moderate leaders signed an agreement at Governors Lodge, Salisbury, which paved the way for the interim government, under Lord Soames, a British governor, in preparation for elections.

Elections were held for a new national parliament as Zimbabwe Rhodesia, which was won by the only black party that had renounced violence and was allowed to contest - the UANC, led by Bishop Abel Muzorewa and Canaan Banana. Sanctions, however, were not lifted, because Britain and the USA said there was not proper representation in the elections - meaning Nkomo and Mugabe. Britain called all parties to Lancaster House in September 1979, which were attended by Smith, Mugabe, Nkomo, Chenjerai Hunzvi, and others, where Muzorewa was persuaded to accept new elections, which were held late February, 1980.

After a campaign marked by intimidation from all sides, mistrust from security forces and reports of full ballot boxes found on the road, the Shona majority was decisive in electing Mugabe to head the first government as prime minister on March 4, 1980. ZANU won 57 out of 80 contested seats in the new parliament, with 20 other seats reserved for Whites. Kofi Annan with Mugabe .

Mugabe, whose political support came from his Shona-speaking homeland in the north, attempted to build Zimbabwe on a basis of an uneasy coalition with his Zimbabwe African People's Union (ZAPU) rivals, whose support came from Ndebele-speaking south, and with whites. Mugabe sought to incorporate ZAPU into his Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) led government and ZAPU's military wing into the army; and ZAPU's leader, Joshua Nkomo, was given a series of cabinet positions in Mugabe's government. However, the new president was torn between this objective and pressures to meet the expectations of his own ZANU followers for a faster pace of social change.

An abortive ZAPU rebellion and discontent in Ndebeleland spelled the end to this uneasy coalition. In 1982 Mugabe dismissed Nkomo from his cabinet, which triggered bitter fighting between ZAPU supporters in the Ndebele-speaking region of the country and the ruling ZANU. Between 1982 and 1985 the military brutally crushed armed resistance in Ndebeleland and Mugabe's rule was left secure. A peace accord was negotiated in 1987, resulting in ZAPU's merger (1988) into the Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF). Mugabe brought Nkomo into the government once again as a vice-president.

In 1987 the position of Prime Minister was abolished, and Mugabe assumed the new office of executive President of Zimbabwe gaining additional powers in the process. He was re-elected in 1990 and 1996, and, controversially, in 2002.

Social programmes

Mugabe improved health and education for the black population at the beginning of his regime. In 1991, amid international pressure and short on hard currency, Zimbabwe embarked on a neoliberal austerity regime, but the International Monetary Fund suspended aid, claiming that the reforms were "not on track".

At the same time he pursued a "moral campaign" against homosexuality, making what he deemed "unnatural sex acts" illegal with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison. This included the arrest of his predecessor as President of Zimbabwe, Canaan Banana, who was convicted of gay sex offences. Mugabe claims that these are actions taken to curb the growing AIDS crisis. However his opponents at home and abroad accuse Mugabe of homophobia and say that his policies have contributed greatly to the spread of the disease.

Mugabe has also been criticized for his intervention in the civil war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo at a time when the Zimbabwean economy was struggling. The war has raised accusations of corruption, with officials alleged to be plundering the Congo's mineral reserves.

Land reforms

When Mugabe became prime minister, approximately 70% of the country's arable land was owned by approximately 4,000 descendants of white settlers. However, he reassured white landowners that they had nothing to fear from black majority rule. Mugabe favoured a "willing buyer, willing seller" plan for gradual redistribution of land but little was done in his early years in power.

2000 referendum

On February 11, 2000, a referendum was held on a new constitution. The proposed change would have limited future presidents to two terms, but as it was not retroactive, Mugabe could have stood for another two terms. It would also have made his government and military officials immune from prosecution for any illegal acts committed while in office. Also, it allowed the government to confiscate white-owned land for redistribution to black farmers without compensation. It was defeated, after a low 20% turnout, but a strong urban vote, fuelled by an effective SMS campaign. Mugabe declared that he would "abide by the will of the people". The vote was a surprise to Zanu-PF, and an embarrassment before parliamentary elections due in mid-April. Almost immediately self-styled "war veterans", led by Chenjerai 'Hitler' Hunzvi, start invading white-owned farms. On April 6, 2000, parliament pushed through an amendment, taken word for word from the draft constitution that was rejected by voters, allowing the seizure of white-owned farmland.

Controversial 2002 election victory

Mugabe faced Morgan Tsvangirai of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) in presidential elections in March 2002 and won a substantial and controversial victory with accusations of violence and an unprecedented turnout in Mugabe's rural stronghold of Mashonaland of around 90% (55% of the population voted overall), amid allegations that opponents in anti-Mugabe strongholds were prevented from voting.

African Union executive council, which comprises foreign ministers of the 53 member states, criticised the government for the arrests and torture of opposition members of parliament and human rights lawyers, the arrests of journalists, the stifling of freedom of expression and clampdowns on other civil liberties.

It was compiled by the AU's African Commission on Human and People's Rights, which sent a mission to Zimbabwe from June 24th to 28th 2002, shortly after the presidential elections.

The report was apparently not submitted to the AU's 2003 summit because it had not been translated into French.

"The land question is not in itself the cause of division. It appears that at the heart is a society in search of the means for change and divided about how best to achieve change after two decades of dominance by a political party that carried the hopes and aspirations of the people of Zimbabwe through the liberation struggle into independence," the report said.

Opposition to Mugabe

Since Mugabe began to redistribute white-owned landholdings, he has faced harsh attacks, externally from mostly white former colonial powers and white former settler-colonies such as Australia, and internally from trade-unions and urban Zimbabwean, who overwhelmingly support the opposition MDC. In addition, some African figures have condemned Mugabe, such as South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who called Mugabe a "caricature of an African dictator", Zambia's long-time leader Kenneth Kaunda, who asked Mugabe to "bury the hatchet and get on with economic development instead of fighting 'colonialist ghosts'", while Botswana President Festus Mogae distanced himself from the SADC statement opposing the Commonwealth suspension. He has been condemned by Western non-governmental organizations such as Amnesty International, charging that he has committed human rights abuses against minority Ndebeles, the opposition MDC, white landowners, and homosexuals. He is now banned from entering the European Union.

However, Zimbabwe's economy is tied to the land (and most Zimbabweans depend on the land for their survival), and thus economic development cannot boost the living standards of black Zimbabweans without tackling the extreme problems of land distribution. Mugabe with ZANU-PF supporters

On March 9, 2003, US President George W. Bush approved measures for economic sanctions to be leveled against Mugabe and numerous other high-ranking Zimbabwe politicians, freezing their assets and barring Americans from engaging in any transactions or dealings with them. Justifying the move, Bush's spokesman stated the President and Congress believe that "the situation in Zimbabwe endangers the southern African region and threatens to undermine efforts to foster good governance and respect for the rule of law throughout the continent". The bill was known as the "Zimbabwe Democracy Act" and was deemed "racist" by Mugabe.

And, on December 8, 2003, in protest against a further 18 months of suspension from the Commonwealth of Nations (thereby cutting foreign aide to Zimbabwe), Mugabe withdrew his country from the Commonwealth. According to reports, Robert Mugabe informed the leaders of Jamaica, Nigeria and South Africa of his decision when they telephoned him to discuss the situation. Zimbabwe's government said the President did not accept the Commonwealth's position, and was leaving the group.

Many African nations, led by South Africa, want Zimbabwe to be brought back into the fold to encourage dialogue between Mugabe and domestic foes, while members of what many Africans charge is the "white Commonwealth" - the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand - led the hard-line stance on the suspension of Zimbabwe. The so-called "white" Commonwealth won the first round of a fight with African countries by securing the re-election of the organization's anti-Mugabe secretary general.

This article is from www.wikipedia.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

and is subject to the GNU-FDL license for free documentation

List of authors at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_Mugabe&action=history

Jim856796
December 27th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I have heard of a 141-metre, 33-story skyscraper in Zvishavane that was completed in 1976. Back then (and possibly now), you couldn't build a tower that tall in such a small town. are there even any photos of this building? The building may not exist. I found out about it on the Emporis website.

buhera
January 3rd, 2009, 09:26 PM
I dont think soi went to school in an area about 1 hour from Zvishavane and there was no building that tall in the town

Kenguy
January 25th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Mutare.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/3151443010_4d4b61a560_b.jpg

Abidrovia
January 26th, 2009, 07:46 PM
I have heard of a 141-metre, 33-story skyscraper in Zvishavane that was completed in 1976. Back then (and possibly now), you couldn't build a tower that tall in such a small town. are there even any photos of this building? The building may not exist. I found out about it on the Emporis website.

Me too, I've never seen that building either.

It's probably nothing special, probably either some rotten apartment building or some kind of radio tower with a 33rd floor observation deck.