guys, come back to topic please!

http://itsabigail.com/wp-content/uploads/S_White_Dove_2_.JPG

:( My apologies, in fairness to You and the rest of the (innocent) forumers, for Our ugly exchange! I'm, really, a VERY nice guy .... until provoked. :) Thanks, ZZ-II, for bringing Us back from " the darkside " !

Although I have nothing but praise for the this building's design, I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever get built. I believe Nashville wants this skyscraper and needs this skyscraper ... all to often Nashville has been over looked (a city of this size and it has no Amtrak connection?).

No comparisons should be made with Miami ... Miami metro area has a population of 5.4 million and Nashville's is 1.8 million ... besides Miami has one of the busiest airports in the world and serves over 35 million passengers annually and also has the busiest cruise ship port in the world. It's like comparing Tulsa to L.A.

Hey Nashville metro just added 400,000 more people, lol.


As far as this tower goes Nashville definitely does not need it in any way shape or form. It would be nice to have a 1,000 foot tower but the city will be fine without it.

My opinion on this tower is the following: in terms of real estate, this tower is not something that is "needed." That being said, Nashville does need an iconic landmark. And no, the AT&T tower (Batman building) is not it. Nashville is the fastest growing city in Tennessee, and turning into one of the largest cities in the south, but that's not entirely obvious to someone who's never been here. If this tower is built, it will be plainly obvious that this city is growing and means business. In addition to that, even though this tower is not "needed," if it is built I guarantee that every unit will sell. It would be a catalyst for the city, putting Nashville in the spotlight and sparking new interest in living here. This is a beautiful tower, and I hope it is built.

If this tower isn't built, this will be the best canceled skyscraper ever :(

Hopefully it gets built, the render looks really nice

If this tower isn't built, this will be the best canceled skyscraper ever :(

IMO there are already a lots of cancelled tower which are much better than this one :)

^ actually you're right - well i think it will be ONE of the best! :)

I was at the Predators game last night and saw a really cool Signature Tower advertisement. Check it out.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2112/2240485586_dfcb268d46_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2250/2240485596_f9ffe0cb7c_b.jpg

Thank you for showing that! Im happy to know the project is still alive :)

^^

Barely!

It's like a shining beacon of hope!

If this tower isn't built, this will be the best canceled skyscraper ever :(

i think its better they cancel this buildings cuz it looks like a cheap mixture of Jin Mao and Marina 101 :down:

^^

Harsh! Actually this building's design is absolutely wonderful. However, I agree that it will never be constructed.

of course the design is wonderful. architects mixed two perfect towers (Jin Mao and Marina 101) and get Signature Tower. the problem is that the design doesnt look original:ohno:

Hey Nashville metro just added 400,000 more people, lol.


Just in one year? 2007?

of course the design is wonderful. architects mixed two perfect towers (Jin Mao and Marina 101) and get Signature Tower. the problem is that the design doesnt look original:ohno:

Dumbest statement I've ever heard. This tower looks nothing like Jin Mao, I could name at least ten towers that look much more like this than the Jin Mao does. Why? Because this is a classic skyscraper design. And there's nothing wrong with that. As for Marina 101, this tower was designed first. Marina 101 is horrendous, and I think the vast majority of people will tell you that the architecture in this tower is far greater than the architecture of Marina 101. It's your opinion though, so if you want to like Marina 101 more, that's up to you. But you saying that the architect ripped off two other towers is just ludicrous. At least pick two towers that actually look like this one.

of course the design is wonderful. architects mixed two perfect towers (Jin Mao and Marina 101) and get Signature Tower. the problem is that the design doesnt look original:ohno:

number 1, this tower is beautiful. comparing it to a hideous tower like marina 101 just because it is tall an skinny makes no sense

number 2, the only think Jin Mao and Sig tower have in common is some jagged points and a spire. nothing else

I think Signature Tower should get built. I still find that tower attractive. I hope it will get built soon.

This one has nothing to do with Jin Mao, that's like saying GE building looks like Empire state.

I don't see how there is a question of whether or not this tower SHOULD get built. It says in the thread title that this is approved. Since when does 'approved' mean 'may or may not get built'? or am i missing something here?

I don't see how there is a question of whether or not this tower SHOULD get built. It says in the thread title that this is approved. Since when does 'approved' mean 'may or may not get built'? or am i missing something here?

Approved means that the design has been accepted and that the city will allow it to be built. The problem right now is that not enough units have been sold to ensure no financial problems.

thanks jlh630... it will be really nice to have something overtake the other buildings in nashville. most of the tall buildings are around the same height as each other, and there are a lot of them. It would be nice to have a building that really stands out. A tall building right in the middle would fit nicely. nashville can definitely support a tower this tall.

Are there any official updates?

Well, if the tower does not get built, then maybe when I get rich, I will purchase the designs and the land and build it when there is a better market.

Are there any official updates?

Last official word is that they are still in the process of selling enough units. I pass by the site about once a week and it's still an occupied parking lot. I would expect we will be hearing something (good or bad) within the next month or so.

27 pages of nothing,,,aww,,,c;mon...that sux...no pix??

27 pages of nothing,,,aww,,,c;mon...that sux...no pix??

there are no pix cuz its not still 100% percent certain that the tower is going to be built
as you can read on the title, it says approved not u/c ;)

I don't see how there is a question of whether or not this tower SHOULD get built. It says in the thread title that this is approved. Since when does 'approved' mean 'may or may not get built'? or am i missing something here?

My understanding could be off, but until construction starts a lot of things could happen.

Even though the building gets approved doesn't mean it will be built. It just means the city approved the building.

If the market doesn't respond favorably to the proposal than the tower won't be built.

Approved means that the design has been accepted and that the city will allow it to be built. The problem right now is that not enough units have been sold to ensure no financial problems.

House price crash bites nasty:(
However I hope this project will be realised in next economic boom!

I really hope it gets built. I think it will be the crown jewel for Nashville's skyline! I know it feels to have such a wonderful project dangling in the air because of financial issues... For us Chicagoans it was the Chicago Spire. We had 2 developers and 4 redesigns talk for the building talk about scary times.

well, the good news is that even if this tower doesn't work out, he has a smaller tower proposed as well. so, for nashville, it's still a win-win.:okay:

well, the good news is that even if this tower doesn't work out, he has a smaller tower proposed as well. so, for nashville, it's still a win-win.:okay:

How small?

This thread should be shut down. Nothing is happening... NO NEWS! NOTHING!

I tend to agree, at least until some actual news/progress is certain. I keep coming on here expecting albeit even hoping it's started. Imagine my increasing disappointment. Here's hoping it starts soon. I would really hate to read another 27 pages (?) of the same thing.

Can anyone please take the picture of the site of Signature Tower to see if anything happen to that site?

Last official word is that they are still in the process of selling enough units. I pass by the site about once a week and it's still an occupied parking lot. I would expect we will be hearing something (good or bad) within the next month or so.

this thread was started in April of 2006 and it's still a parking lot? Maybe Nashville can't support such a building if after 2 years they haven't sold enough units to make the project feasible. Sad indeed :(

What I don't understand is why don't they just chop off 20 floors and proceed with the project. It will still be the tallest in Nashville and the State of Tennessee, although not a "supertall" any more. More importantly, it will be more profitable and less of a risk for the investors.

What I don't understand is why don't they just chop off 20 floors and proceed with the project. It will still be the tallest in Nashville and the State of Tennessee, although not a "supertall" any more. More importantly, it will be more profitable and less of a risk for the investors.

Actually this question has been asked many times during this long, long, thread. Here is the general opinion and I believe it to be true.

The building has over 100 solid contracts with many being on the penthouse and upper floors. Because these units were sold as part of a landmark 1,000+ foot tower, any changes in height (other than possibly the pinnacle) will dramatically decrease the uniqueness of the upper floor units and therefore reduce their value. This would also eliminate all sales above whatever floor height he changed to. Even the lower floors would be worth less because the buiding itself is no longer unique. This would void the contracts he has.

In short, the building cannot be changed in height without starting over with contracts. It's either all or nothing. That's why the rumblings about change within the Giaratanna camp aren't related to height but are always centered on redistribution of the full 70 floors or changing something cosmetic like the crown. Example is the recent rumor of increasing the hotel portion which would only affect the very lowest floors. Any sales on those lowest floors would likely only cause them to be bumped up to the next available floor. I'm not sure if that is even allowed or not but is obviously being considered.

They lopped 100-150 feet off of the height of Trump Toronto (it's now just over 900' or so)... and the thing is finally under construction. The excuse they made was a smoke-screen (elevator issues for such a tiny site), but lethargic sales at those prices was the most likely reason. Nonetheless, the builder must have figured out how to placate those purchasers who paid top dollar to own at those rarified elevations.

They lopped 100-150 feet off of the height of Trump Toronto (it's now just over 900' or so)... and the thing is finally under construction. The excuse they made was a smoke-screen (elevator issues for such a tiny site), but lethargic sales at those prices was the most likely reason. Nonetheless, the builder must have figured out how to placate those purchasers who paid top dollar to own at those rarified elevations.

Dig a little deeper and I bet a certain % change was allowed in the contracts. And then consider what part changed. Was the building flat roof or did it have a crown of some sort that was lopped off? At any rate the developer couldn't make a dramatic change without re-negoatiating contracts of the top floors.

I don't need to dig deeper... this is a market that is still exploding despite the historical "America sneezes and Canada catches a cold" real estated phenom.

Toronto is building 5 new 5 star hotels and one of them performed poorly... named Trump. What's your point? If I was a Nashville skyscraper geek with a camera at the ready... I'd vote "build it... whatever the height...".

I don't need to dig deeper... this is a market that is still exploding despite the historical "America sneezes and Canada catches a cold" real estated phenom.

Toronto is building 5 new 5 star hotels and one of them performed poorly... named Trump. What's your point? If I was a Nashville skyscraper geek with a camera at the ready... I'd vote "build it... whatever the height...".

Apparently you do need to dig deeper...mostly in your understanding of my statement. My point? I'm not talking about Tornoto's "market". I'm talking about contractural obligations regarding making major architectural changes to a condo tower. If Trump had to change his tower then somewhere along the way the subject of his contractural obligations to his contracted buyers had to surface immediately. It could be he had the ability to make such changes in the contract from the outset. But if he had a unit sold on the 70th floor and now that unit no longer exists, well I would imagine the buyer wouldn't be willing to shell out money for nothing.

My points regarding Signature Tower up in Nashville is based on the premise that the developer has contracts for condos sitting well over 800' in the air. If he shortens the tower (excluding the crown), the very top floor condos dissappear as do his contracts for the now non-existent units. And then with the condo tower becoming less distinctive or unique, the value of even the lower units themselves are reduced which likely nullifies many of the contracts even on floors that do remain.

Now do you get my point?

How small?
not sure.:dunno:

What ever happened to his hot air balloon? Does he even have a GC on board yet?

Look...I wish that they would build this project. But there is truly nothing happening. Can we shut this down???

The above posters are correct.

For a developer its easier (P.R. and otherwise) to return deposits after expiring all of your options than it is to get locked in litigation with 100 or so complaintants (sp?).

All or nothing.

This project is dead.

This project is not dead.

But this thread should be.

This project is not dead.

But this thread should be.

the thread has already been dead and the project is about to die :ohno:

Thanks for the explanations. I guess Nashville is not ready for a "super-tall" building yet.

Thanks for the explanations. I guess Nashville is not ready for a "super-tall" building yet.

That's the notion I don't understand. "ready for a supertall". If someone has the money and a permit they can build a mile high skyscraper in a cornfield in Nebraska. Plus Signature Tower is a condo tower. If it doesn't get built it has nothing whatsoever to do with Nashville's being "ready" or not. Two 500' condo towers would be just as much on hold, or three 350 footers.

It is all about the home mortgage crunch and what I consider very gimmicky marketing by the developer. Now he has spent all this time marketing it with balloon rides and free cars that he may not have time to reel in enough buyers before the contracts expire. I hope I'm wrong.

This project may be quiet right now, but it is not dead. Some news that hasn't been posted yet from February 12 (1 week ago):

http://wkrn.com/nashville/news/proposed-town-center-essential-to-city-city-leader-says/136142.htm

The video is mostly about an unrelated development in Davidson county outside Nashville, but the last 30 seconds of the video are an interview with the developer, Giarratana, about the Signature Tower. Word is they are still expecting to break ground this spring. Part of the hold-up has been conflict with the FAA over the height of the building, but it seems they are going to allow this building to exceed 300 m as planned.

Don't count this building out just yet. It may be one of the slowest moving project out there, but it is neither on hold nor cancelled. This thread should stay open.

This project may be quiet right now, but it is not dead. Some news that hasn't been posted yet from February 12 (1 week ago):

http://wkrn.com/nashville/news/proposed-town-center-essential-to-city-city-leader-says/136142.htm

The video is mostly about an unrelated development in Davidson county outside Nashville, but the last 30 seconds of the video are an interview with the developer, Giarratana, about the Signature Tower. Word is they are still expecting to break ground this spring. Part of the hold-up has been conflict with the FAA over the height of the building, but it seems they are going to allow this building to exceed 300 m as planned.

Don't count this building out just yet. It may be one of the slowest moving project out there, but it is neither on hold nor cancelled. This thread should stay open.

I hope you're right. Some folks on the other forums have said the FAA thing is a smokescreen and that lackluster sales are delaying the groundbreaking. I really, really, hope you are right.

They could lop off the bottom half of the building, and build the top half on stilts. Then those people with contracts would still get their elevations ;)

They could lop off the bottom half of the building, and build the top half on stilts. Then those people with contracts would still get their elevations ;)

:lol: Actually, the bottom of the tower is basically a done deal. That is reserved for the Hotel Palomar. With the near 100% probability of a new Convention Center being constructed starting in 2009, the Hotel Palomar is now interested in adding more rooms than originally planned. That means that, if built, Signature Tower will probably have a 20 story hotel at the bottom with 50 floors of condos above that, rather than only a 13 story hotel as originally planned and 57 stories of condos above that. The developer will not have to sell as many condos as before to obtain financing and that raises the odds that this thing can go forward. Based on what I heard, Giarratana needs to break ground on this thing by June, or the contracts already signed go void. It's crunch time between now and then for the project. I beleive he still needs to sell about 60 more units to get financing. There's even the possibility that he would break ground before financing is obtained, financing the prep work (70 foot excavation) out of his own pocket. There are also rumors that he is talking to other developers to partner in the project. Who knows? It will be an interesting next several months.

Well... This is the most promising bit of information that I've heard in a looooong while. Though promising I won't hold my breath

^^Good news. :)

they had an article about this a few months ago, i tried to find it, but i couldnt. if anyone can, please post it here.


http://www.nautf.com/images/linkto/88x19.gif

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9615/nashvillesignaturetowerct2.jpg

Based on the public unveiling today in Nashville, the approved Signature Tower will stand an impressive 65 stories / 1,047 feet tall making it the tallest U.S. skyscraper outside of New York and Chicago. Wow!! :)

Love the top !

Actually they've changed the top. I like it even better. Here's the latest rendering:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/Deadlymantis/sigad.jpg

^Agreed! It's amazing how that subtle refinement up there turns the volume down on that crown. Every time I've looked at this thing the past couple of years it was like 'Shenzhou Trade Mansion', or something. I love those things in China. Not in the mid-south U.S.A.

That is a really beautiful crown. So american... The good kind of american! :D

That´s what looks for me too. :)

its a beauty.

I like the top of it:)

:lol: Actually, the bottom of the tower is basically a done deal. That is reserved for the Hotel Palomar. With the near 100% probability of a new Convention Center being constructed starting in 2009, the Hotel Palomar is now interested in adding more rooms than originally planned. That means that, if built, Signature Tower will probably have a 20 story hotel at the bottom with 50 floors of condos above that, rather than only a 13 story hotel as originally planned and 57 stories of condos above that. The developer will not have to sell as many condos as before to obtain financing and that raises the odds that this thing can go forward. Based on what I heard, Giarratana needs to break ground on this thing by June, or the contracts already signed go void. It's crunch time between now and then for the project. I beleive he still needs to sell about 60 more units to get financing. There's even the possibility that he would break ground before financing is obtained, financing the prep work (70 foot excavation) out of his own pocket. There are also rumors that he is talking to other developers to partner in the project. Who knows? It will be an interesting next several months.
thanks for the news, hankster. you're right, the next couple of months should be interesting....

great news! cant wait for an announcement from tony g.

This has just been torture.

what has? the building always on the verge of an announcement? lol, if so, yes, this is torture! they need to release something, anything, please.... lol

The Chicago Spire Launches in Asia
Global Marketing Campaign Begins Five-City Asian Tour Following Unprecedented Dublin Sales Launch

CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The Chicago Spire global sales campaign begins a five-city Asian road show today with an opening exhibition in Singapore. Launched in January at a highly successful event in Dublin, the global marketing drive will continue to Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and Kuala Lumpur before travelling to key cities across Europe and South Africa. Designed by Santiago Calatrava, The Chicago Spire is an iconic 2,000-foot residential building located on the shores of Lake Michigan
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080307005120&newsLang=en

i just found this in the spire thread. this is what tony g needs to do. i think he is targeting the wrong audience by only staying in nashville. what do you think?

I LOOOOVVVVEEE this building. Love it.

But, unfortunately I don't see it getting built.

The United States economy is in shambles right now. In the past month 65000 jobs have been slashed, prices of homes have continued to tumble, and I've watched the stock market fall day after day.

International buyers don't want to live in Nashville, and investors are smart enough to steer clear of the US real estate market for atleast the next year.

I'm hoping for a "Chicago Spire" miracle, however I don't see it happening in Nashville.

i just found this in the spire thread. this is what tony g needs to do. i think he is targeting the wrong audience by only staying in nashville. what do you think?

I agree with your assessment. However, I don't see Nashville offering international buyers the same cachet as Chicago....

^ i think he should be reaching to viewers in Atl, Louisville, Memphis, and the surrounding areas, wouldn't that work :dunno:

No....

^ thanks for the exceptionally in depth answer. Why not?

Just no.

:D

^ i think he should be reaching to viewers in Atl, Louisville, Memphis, and the surrounding areas, wouldn't that work :dunno:

I think marketing to soon to be boomer retirees from the northeast and midwest to come to the relatively "warm" and "friendly" South may be worth some marketing dollars. Jobs, families and finances weigh too heavily for the younger set in the nearby cities.

I LOOOOVVVVEEE this building. Love it.

But, unfortunately I don't see it getting built.

The United States economy is in shambles right now. In the past month 65000 jobs have been slashed, prices of homes have continued to tumble, and I've watched the stock market fall day after day.

International buyers don't want to live in Nashville, and investors are smart enough to steer clear of the US real estate market for atleast the next year.

I'm hoping for a "Chicago Spire" miracle, however I don't see it happening in Nashville.

:ohno: The comments are too pessimistic, too overly negative. One point is accurate, though, and that is Nashville has not yet attained the status of a "world class" city and that why such a building could be built in NYC or Chicago (or even LA, San Francisco or Miami for that matter).

:hahano:

Mr. G.'s marketing has been gimmicky and has cheapened the project IMO. After the balloon rides I halfway expected dancing clowns and face painting. While I enjoy such things I don't believe those carnival atmosphere type promotions attract upscale buyers. :ohno:

His one ace in the hole has been the paradigm productions. He needs to rely more on them to come up with a video campaign that could be marketed overseas.

Above all, does anyone...anyone at all have a clue as to how many contracts he has? It has hovered between 100 and 120 now for months and months. If he doesn't have 150 by now he may be in trouble. IF he can convince a lender to go for it on less than half the units and IF he gets more hotel space and fewer units he may pull it off. I believe I speak for many on here with the concensus that if he can just break ground and start seeing it rise out of the hole there will be many more contracts.

Just no.

:D

This answer made me laugh. I'm sorry. Well quite frankly my answer relates more to the dollar/euro/Asian currency issue. The dollar is really cheap right now making projects like the Spire and others quite affordable by Euro/Asian standards. I also don't see Nashville being a huge destination point for foreign tourists. It's not a huge destination point for many American tourists either. I'm not taking a shot a Nashville it's just a reality that Chicago has more commercial options for tourists.

This answer made me laugh. I'm sorry. Well quite frankly my answer relates more to the dollar/euro/Asian currency issue. The dollar is really cheap right now making projects like the Spire and others quite affordable by Euro/Asian standards. I also don't see Nashville being a huge destination point for foreign tourists. It's not a huge destination point for many American tourists either. I'm not taking a shot a Nashville it's just a reality that Chicago has more commercial options for tourists.

Here's some rankings from Hotel-online.com. These rankings are not too shabby for a city the size of Nashville.

Top 25 Cities for Convention / Conference/Seminar Travelers

1. Chicago
2. Las Vegas
3. Washington, DC (metro area)
4. Orlando
5. Atlanta
6. Dallas
7. San Francisco
8. Nashville
9. San Diego
10. New Orleans
11. Denver
12. San Antonio
13. Phoenix-Mesa
14. Los Angeles-Long Beach
15. Boston (metro area)
16. Philadelphia
17. Tampa-St Petersburg-Clearwater, FL
18. Austin-San Marcos, TX
19. New York
20. Seattle (metro area)
21. Detroit
22. St Louis, MO
23. Riverside-San Bernardino, CA
24. Minneapolis-St Paul
25. Houston

Top 25 Cities for General
Business Travelers

1. Chicago
2. Los Angeles-Long Beach
3. Washington, DC (metro area)
4. New York
5. Atlanta
6. Houston
7. Boston (metro area)
8. Minneapolis-St. Paul
9. Dallas
10. Detroit
11. Denver
12. Phoenix-Mesa
13. St Louis, MO
14. Philadelphia
15. Seattle (metro area)
16. New Orleans
17. Tampa-St Petersburg-Clearwater, FL
18. Nashville, TN
19. Orlando
20. Las Vegas
21. Austin-San Marcos, TX
22. San Diego
23. San Francisco
24. Riverside-San Bernardino, CA
25. San Antonio, TX

No NYC on that list?sounds kinda crazy.

Has this thing even started construction yet??WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR?

No NYC on that list?sounds kinda crazy.

They're fourth on the general business traveler list and not in the top 25 on the convention / seminar list. Evidently, New York has never entered the convention business in a big way. Don't know why. They just haven't.

Actually they've changed the top. I like it even better. Here's the latest rendering:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/Deadlymantis/sigad.jpg

LOL!!!! "The Starbucks model"

:)

No NYC on that list?sounds kinda crazy.

They're fourth on the general business traveler list and not in the top 25 on the convention / seminar list. Evidently, New York has never entered the convention business in a big way. Don't know why. They just haven't.

Yes they are.
Look a little closer, New York is number 19 on the first list.

so is this going to get built

Happy 2 year anniversary of this thread.

In 9 days, we will celebrate it :|
Man, i wish something, anything would happen with this project

I've been waiting for this thing to start for almost a year now, and I'm just gonna go ahead and say I really don't think it's going to happen. Maybe sometime in the next 10 years the market will change, but from what I've observed about Nashville real estate... there's just no need for this tower. As much as I would love to see this thing go up, I've lost my optimism. There's another residential project down the street from me, a couple ~20 story towers, that has literally just been a hole in the ground since summer. Another very promising looking project that seems to be going nowhere. If this city doesn't need a couple nice 20 story condo towers, it doesn't need a 70 story one. Hopefully one day, but not right now. Personally I think this thread should be closed until some new information comes out, it's confusing for people to think this tower is going up when it might not be. I hope I am wrong and we hear something soon...

so is this going to get built
it's probably gonna' get scaled back significantly.

As stated several times in this thread, it can't get scaled back unless an allowance for that was in the contracts. He has 105 units actually sold and many of those are on the upper floors including the top floor. He cannot change the design of the tower as far as height or anything significant without voiding the existing contracts. In other words a top floor penthouse 600 feet in the air is not nearly as valuable as a top floor penthouse 850 feet in the air. If he scales it back some of the units he has sold not only would be worth less but would no longer exist. The only way to do that is to scrap his contracts and start over.

On another note here is a late TV news story. The project is far from dead but is certainly being delayed.

http://www.wztv.com/newsroom/top_stories/vid_1572.shtml

^^ Thanks for the link. According to the video, it WILL get built. The problem is they dont have enough contracts YET.
Patience...

I've been waiting for this thing to start for almost a year now, and I'm just gonna go ahead and say I really don't think it's going to happen. Maybe sometime in the next 10 years the market will change, but from what I've observed about Nashville real estate... there's just no need for this tower. As much as I would love to see this thing go up, I've lost my optimism. There's another residential project down the street from me, a couple ~20 story towers, that has literally just been a hole in the ground since summer. Another very promising looking project that seems to be going nowhere. If this city doesn't need a couple nice 20 story condo towers, it doesn't need a 70 story one. Hopefully one day, but not right now. Personally I think this thread should be closed until some new information comes out, it's confusing for people to think this tower is going up when it might not be. I hope I am wrong and we hear something soon...

The "hole in the ground" is because of significant financing problems. I saw the towers advertised in the tennessean in late april. Once the building that is going on now finishes up it will be two years before Signature and Summit begin.

Wow! Signature Tower isn't dead but is being redesigned....with the same height but 25 floors of condos being converted to either hotel or office space. Gotta give Mr. Giarratanna credit, he is determined to build this thing at the height he wants. Here is the link to the Tennessean story...

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080520/BUSINESS01/80520030&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Wow! Signature Tower isn't dead but is being redesigned....with the same height but 25 floors of condos being converted to either hotel or office space. Gotta give Mr. Giarratanna credit, he is determined to build this thing at the height he wants. Here is the link to the Tennessean story...

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080520/BUSINESS01/80520030&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

This is great news Plasticman.
I was really getting depressed seeing the chances of this project getting done receding. I admire Giarratana for his stick-to-it-ness.
If the pricing is right, I will definitely consider putting my money where my mouth is on a unit there.
Thanks.

I still believe if he had proposed this five years ago and marketed it correctly he would have an iconic building standing tall today.

He waited too long to realize that but with his determination he may have stumbled but hasn't fumbled...yet. :)

I still believe if he had proposed this five years ago and marketed it correctly he would have an iconic building standing tall today.

He waited too long to realize that but with his determination he may have stumbled but hasn't fumbled...yet. :)

Agree.
I did notice the Siggy website has no changes, and still showing the same layout of units.
I hope that Tony G. can find a nice juicy corporate tennant for the lower floors and announce the revamp soon!

Agree.
I did notice the Siggy website has no changes, and still showing the same layout of units.
I hope that Tony G. can find a nice juicy corporate tennant for the lower floors and announce the revamp soon!

Based on what I'm reading he will have to redesign the shape of the office portion to accomodate better use of space. Sharp angles and odd shapes aren't appealing to offices for whatever reason.

But no matter what the man is sticking to the 1,000+ foot height. He's got guts.

Beautiful. Muito lindo!

Now comes the news that Giarratana already has an office tenant expressing interest in leasing space equivalent to 150 condos in the tower. That would be a minimum of 15 floors and a minimum of 60% of the office component. The new design will have no more than 200 condos and he already has contracts for 105 or a minimum of 52.5%. The hotel component is lined up. It's starting to look like he has a real shot to get financing and pull this thing off.

Now comes the news that Giarratana already has an office tenant expressing interest in leasing space equivalent to 150 condos in the tower. That would be a minimum of 15 floors and a minimum of 60% of the office component. The new design will have no more than 200 condos and he already has contracts for 105 or a minimum of 52.5%. The hotel component is lined up. It's starting to look like he has a real shot to get financing and pull this thing off.

Hankster, you-da-man with the inside news! :banana:
I hope that the "interest" is very strong!

Damn the naysayers. It'll be sweet to see this baby get untracked.

Here's the article stating that there'a already interest in the office component of this tower. Check out the video on the site, too.

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?s=8366924

Here's the written article from wkrn.com:

"Financing forces plan change for Signature Tower"

A new study expected to be released later this week will reveal 400,000 new residents will move into Middle Tennessee; Davidson County, Montgomery, Robertson, Sumner, Wilson, Cheatham, Dickson, Williamson, Rutherford, Hickman, by 2020.

Despite that, longtime Nashville developer Tony Giarratana has been forced to change plans for his downtown condo complex, Signature Tower.

The proposed 70-story Signature Tower was initially designed to have 400 condo units. That number has now been reduced.

"Same building, same height, maybe slightly larger, just a reduced number of units, larger units at the top, fewer units in the middle, adding an office component," he told News 2 Wednesday night.

That office component will take up 25 floors, knocking out nearly half of the planned condos.

"We've been approached by a large company to lease a large block of office space that would eliminate approximately 150 condominium units," Giarratana continued.

That undisclosed company comes along at a good time for Giarratana, who is still looking for business partners in the project.

He said, "Market conditions do not permit us to finance 400 condominium units in Nashville, Tennessee."

The number of condos in the building has been dropped to 200 meaning the condos in the upper portion of the building will be larger.

The reduction is a direct reflection of economic times.

Giarratana said, "We are very comfortable with the market fluctuation, very comfort with our product but we are realists."

Ground has yet to be broken on the Signature Tower, to be built on the corner of Fifth Avenue and Church Street.

Giarratana said no one wants to start on the project sooner than he does but said it has to be a financeable building and right now, he is in it alone.

Interesting article. I hope they will solve financial problems asap and start construction. :)

Instead of condos, more office space will help them make more money. Nice plan. :okay:

when I first read about a tower in Nashville I assumed a bad joke! Good that's not the case, I hope the financial issues will be solved soon

So still there is a hope...

Perhaps if Toronto joined the US it would get 7 supertalls?

This project is now at "joke" status...

This project is now at "joke" status...

I wonder about your timing, cheeps, since the latest info we've gotten on the project seems somewhat promising. How long did it take Trump to get started in Chicago ?

My friend...Projects get proposed and approved in have the time it takes most cities. BTW, this have nothing to do with Chicago.

My friend...Projects get proposed and approved in have the time it takes most cities. BTW, this have nothing to do with Chicago.

It has everything to do with Chicago. For some reason, this particular project has had Chicago forumers chattering for two years now.

Looks like this building in Shenzhen, China, with the top stretched:
International Finance Centre
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6549/eab3e5266dcf46048a82a10ax6.jpg

It has everything to do with Chicago. For some reason, this particular project has had Chicago forumers chattering for two years now.

I think many Chicagoans are rooting for this project to get under way. But IMO the developer is starting to feed the good folks of Nashville a nice line of BS. Please don't get me wrong...I love Nashville and want only the best for it's people but this project is starting to get somewhat long in the tooth.

I hope this tower gets the approval it needs!

It's really interestings to read this thread from the beginning - April 30th, 2006 to today ... so much hope and optimism in the beginning! People posting "Groundbreaking on July 4th (2006)!" ... "yep! Groundbreaking on July 4th -- 50% of all units already sold!" etc etc ad nauseam.

Then July 4th came and went ... "Oh! Groundbreaking later in July!" ... followed by "well the people who own the parking lot have 'til the end of August to vacate and that's what's holding it up!" ... then we read by 'inside sources' that groundbreaking will quietly commence in December 2006 without any fanfare ...

Now there was not even a single post from June 26 until August 1st, 2008.

If I was one of those of those people who put a deposit on a condo in this building back in the spring of 2006 I would be royally pissed off!

I'm not saying this this project is dead or will never be built, although that is beginning to seem likely ... one thing I know for sure is that it wont be completed by 2010 and it will not be the tallest building outside Chicago and New York in the US. When built it will be the tallest in Tennessee.

Is Nashville competing with Charlotte for economic superstar in America because if so, then go Nashville!!!

Is Nashville competing with Charlotte for economic superstar in America because if so, then go Nashville!!!

Nashville has the edge in the entertainment sector but Charlotte has a huge edge in the financial and business sectors.

Nashville has the edge in the entertainment sector but Charlotte has a huge edge in the financial and business sectors.

Charlotte, without a doubt, has a big edge in the financial sector. However, I'm not so sure about the business sector. Nashville for the last couple of years has rated the number one city in the nation for corporate relocations, and the Chamber of Commerce has reported that 43 more companies are currently considering relocation to Nashville.

whats up with this

whats up with this

There was an article not too long ago in the newspaper about it, but the article link is no longer valid. :(

Developer battles to keep tower project
Developer Tony Giarratana is trying to bargain for some more time for his Signature Tower project.

The Nashville high-rise developer, who grabbed attention across the Southeast two years ago with his proposal for a 70-story condominium and hotel at Church Street and Fifth Avenue North, said he is trying to work out new terms for the mortgage on the land on which the tower would stand.

The talks come as Giarratana faces an Oct. 30 deadline on his $11.5 million loan with Wachovia bank on the property. That loan has already been extended twice, he said.

"We're discussing the rate, the loan-to-value and the term itself, the length of the loan," Giarratana said. "I can't share details right now."

As part of the talks, Wachovia officials have contacted some potential investors to ask what they would pay for the 1.2-acre site.

The discussions could be a sign that Wachovia is preparing to foreclose on the property, or they could indicate that the bank is trying to figure out the property's current market value as part of its negotiations with Giarratana.

Giarratana bought the property for $9.1 million in December 2005, according to records filed with the Davidson County Register of Deeds.

A Wachovia spokeswoman declined to comment, citing customer privacy rules.

Already on hold
Lenders have already been weighing in on the Signature Tower project.

In May, Giarratana said the building's design was headed back to the drawing board because potential financiers were not buying into his concept of a luxury hotel and condominium that at 1,057 feet would have been the tallest building in the nation outside New York City and Chicago.

But these latest negotiations show that it's not only the type of project that's being rethought. It's the value of Nashville real estate itself.

At $170 a square foot, Giarratana's price for the Signature Tower lot far exceeds the $117 a foot that office developer Eakin Properties paid in June 2005 for 1.2 acres next to Ryman Auditorium.

That's where the SunTrust Plaza building, downtown's
latest office tower, now
stands.

The valuation also is nearly triple the $60 a square foot that the Marks family paid in October 2006 for some of the land where city officials are considering building a convention center.

"The value of underlying raw land has been impacted negatively; it's about a 50 percent haircut," said Mark Bloom, the Nashville land investor who sold the Markses their lot. "This cycle is playing out a lot longer than anybody expected."

Giarratana has been through financial difficulties before. The real estate slump in the 1980s forced him into bankruptcy, but Giarratana bounced back to open the Cumberland apartment building in 1998. That building would be the genesis of his comeback as a residential developer.

Keeping the Signature Tower proposal alive may require acting every bit as deftly again.

Chas Sisk writes about real estate on Mondays. Reach him at 615-259-8283 or csisk@tennessean.com.

I hope this tower it built, it's a real beauty!

I hope it gets built as well. It's not fair that Chicago and New York get to have all the fun.

^^ will it be built?

^ My spidey sense says no. :(

Let it die.....go with dignity.

I highly doubt this will happen. Mr. Giaratanna was overly optimistic. The wealthy in Nashville live out in the suburbs. Nashville does not even have enough retail, movie theaters, restaurants etc... to support such a tower.

Mr. Giaratanna had hoped to land Regions, or First Tennessee Bank as an office tenant. He then hoped to sign on Kimpton Hotels. The current USA economy is in shambles. I wish he had stayed with the original 55 story 700 foot tower. It was more realistic for Nashville. Nashville does not need a 70 story 1057 foot tower. We need about 20 more 300 foot towers to fill up about 20 surface parking lots in downtown.

Hahaha GO NASHVILLE!

Wachovia Bank is no more ... bought out by Wells Fargo.

I have now arrived at the opinion this will never get built.

This thread ... almost 2 and 1/2 years later and 630 posts ... a lot of wishes and hopes dashed. How sad!

:ohno:

even me, from nashville, do not think this will happen anymore.

it is all in fault to tony g, the developer. it sucks that the crisis happened, but he has wasted so much time on this project, and shown little results from his studies and plans.....


its sad, maybe one day, but not anytime in the near future can i say we will see this in nashville....

that sucks....

This thread needs to be closed. This project has no chance of moving forward in the foreseeable future. I was down at the site yesterday, and all advertising billboards and walls are down. Especially now with the state of the U.S. economy, this project is dead.

A pity since this tower is so nice.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9615/nashvillesignaturetowerct2.jpg


This tower look like Jin Mao to me. To bad is dead. :(

Maybe someone else will buy the project and build-it. :)

The last I spoke with Giarratana Development, they told me that they are working on extending some contracts for the project. Maybe these land deals and reassessments could be a part of it? I was informed that things would start up again in November.

^^ I hope so.

It was nice.

what does probably dead mean?

what does probably dead mean?

Lying in a back alley, bleeding profusely from several bullet wounds.

A pity since this tower is so nice.

Yes, very much so. I was looking forward to watching this building grow.

The last I spoke with Giarratana Development, they told me that they are working on extending some contracts for the project. Maybe these land deals and reassessments could be a part of it? I was informed that things would start up again in November.

They have been saying "they are working on it" for 2 years, and always give a few months in the future as the date that things will get underway. In the spring, Giarratana was confident the project would be underway by June, but instead they have taken a step back by removing the on-site advertisements. It pains me to say it but there's just no way this thing is getting built.

That might be true Jlh but we just don't know for sure until an official word comes from the developer I'd imagine. The worst is for now we wait until November and then we can see if anything is happening. If they're fighting this hard to keep it alive I'd imagine they want the tower built - it just has challenges to go through with housing / land prices and such before it happens.

At least, that's what I'm figuring. Whether it really is dead or not is something we'll see eventually.

wow

Lying in a back alley, bleeding profusely from several bullet wounds.


LOL.nice answer though:lol:

Decided to change the title back since the last one was not really, well, technically the best. Let's say it's dead only if it really is.

Not dead yet. The tower undergoes a redesign which is shortening the height. How much shorter? :dunno: Likely to get built? :dunno:

Signature Tower won't be 70 stories

By Randy McClain • THE TENNESSEAN • December 3, 2008

Developer Tony Giarratana made a splash nearly four years ago with plans for what morphed into a proposed 70-story condo and hotel project on Church Street at Fifth Avenue North.

The much-ballyhooed Signature Tower was supposed to be the tallest building in the nation outside New York and Chicago.

Now, with credit markets in disarray, Giarratana has decided to downsize the project as he continues to search for financing to build it. Instead of 70 floors and as many as 600 condo units, look for a smaller Signature Tower with no more than 90 to 100 condos.

Giarratana said the ultimate look of his planned tower is still under discussion, but the basics are as follows:

>> The average size of Signature condos will more than double from original plans of roughly 1,500 square feet each to about 3,500 square feet.

>> Prices haven't been set yet, and neither has a timetable for construction.

>> But the final design will be one that targets the luxury market.

"The average price will be substantially more; there will be fewer units but much larger individual units," Giarratana said during Tuesday's "Lunch Money" Webcast at Tennessean.com.

Giarratana said the U.S. recession killed the glitzy 70-story Signature Tower plans, but he still plans to bring a revised concept to fruition.

"I'm glad I'm not coming online with 400 to 600 high-rise condominiums right at this particular moment. The market has changed … and we've re-evaluated the project," he said.

"The next reiteration you see of Signature Tower is going to be very luxurious — 3,500 square feet average units. You'll see the same great architecture, a little bit shorter and a completely different design. No floor plans from the original concept will survive," Giarratana added.

"We think we can find 90 to 100 buyers for a product of this type, and it's a win. This is a market of 1.5 million people, and we're looking for 90 like-minded folks."

How much shorter? :dunno: Likely to get built? :dunno:

Based on this quote from Giarratana:

"The next reiteration you see of Signature Tower is going to be very luxurious — 3,500 square feet average units. You'll see the same great architecture, a little bit shorter and a completely different design. No floor plans from the original concept will survive," Giarratana added."

I'm expecting the redesigned tower to include a 15 to 20 story hotel component, plus about a 15 story office component in addition to about 25 stories of condos. This would shrink the structure down from 70 stories to about 55 to 60 and take the height down from 1057 Ft (322 M) down to about 900 Ft (274 M). Obviously, this is just a guess, but I think Giarratana still plans to build it very high.

Let it die.....go with dignity.yeah, really....lol. as much as i would love to see this tower happen for nashville, it's not. well, for now anyway...

this tower looks like Jinmao tower in shanghai, doesn't it?

That gives us some hopes for this beautiful tower to be built... Let keep our fingers crossed for this one. :)

Wow guys! Here's the redesign. I'm impressed at how well it emphasizes the continued Nashville 500 foot ceiling.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/Deadlymantis/tower.jpg

^^ rofl good one!

^^ rofl good one!

Okay after yesterdays design change took a lot of heat Tony G. just called a press conference today and said he had made some minor adjustments which enabled him to cut out 75% of the cost and still maintain that incredible 1,057 foot height. :lol:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/Deadlymantis/tower2-1.jpg

Wow guys! Here's the redesign. I'm impressed at how well it emphasizes the continued Nashville 500 foot ceiling.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/Deadlymantis/tower.jpg

Funny picture. That remind me of Austin's tallest building (I forgot the name of it).

Very nice and different crown! Happy to see that the project is now approved.

Very nice and different crown! Happy to see that the project is now approved.
It's been approved for ever the problem is construction just hasn't started and maybe never will. We've been told construction would start many times yet nothing has happened. :ohno:

what a shame! i didn t know that...thanks for that sad information. i hope and want to believe that the construction will start soon!don t despair!

I absolutely LOVE the Signature Tower, it's my favourite at the moment. It's so timeless and incorporates some classic features. I also LOVE the scale model......Can I have it please?.........check out my model on the club forums page, go to scale models, Greg's model and leave me a msg if you like it...........Thanx...................

Let it die.....go with dignity.
Time for somme investors to buy the plans and build-it in Dubai... :rock:

Time for somme investors to buy the plans and build-it in Dubai... :rock:

Yes... is true... in the country music village, at Dubai Music City. :fiddle:

Signature Tower drops size, scope: http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2009/05/04/story1.html

^^ That is disappointing but understandable. Be glad it still have chances to get built.

50 stories and 807 feet tall is nothing to sneeze at. This is still a great tower for Nashville. Let's hope construction can start sometime later this year.

In case you didn't get to see the entire Nashville Business Journal article, some of the highlights are:

Tower looks very similar to old design, just 20 fewer stories. Spire basically looks the same, but may be a bit shorter to look balanced with the shorter tower
807 Ft - 50 Stories
Hotel portion expanded from 198 units to 304 units
Office portion - 172,000 Sq Ft
Underground parking reduced from 630 spaces to 360 spaces
Condo portion - only 50 units all in the upper portion of the tower. The top five floors will be full floor penthouses.
Total cost $250 Million down from $350 Million for the earlier design.
Construction costs have dropped by an estimated 20%.
Financing is hoped to be obtained in 8 to 12 months.
Overseas investors are being sought.

I would estimate this tower is about 24 floors hotel, 10 floors office, and about 16 floors of condos. If Tony has secured an office tenant and can retain enough of the 105 or so people that signed contracts for the old design, I think there is a real chance he can make a go of this. We'll all have to see what happens. I have always said, that you can't just write Tony Giarratana off. He is very persistant and motivated.

reduced height but still a great addition for Nashville

Stunning. Nashville is once again showcasing why Memphis is the Tennessee of yesterday. Congratz!

Even with the reduced height, this would make a great addition to the Nashville skyline. Are there even any renderings of the tower at its 800-ft height?

Even with the reduced height, this would make a great addition to the Nashville skyline. Are there even any renderings of the tower at its 800-ft height?

I saw a rendering in the Nashville Business Journal on May 1st. Unfortunately, that rendering was only published in the print edition, and not in the web page edition. It looks very much like the original design, just scaled back. They lopped of 20 stories. The spire looks the same, but may be a bit shorter to remain in scale with the rest of the tower. The set back near the top was eliminated. At 807 feet and 50 stories, it will still dominate the Nashville skyline, if buit. Here's the link and article.

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2009/05/04/story1.html

Signature Tower drops size, scope
Developer cuts floors, condos in hopes of reviving stalled project
Nashville Business Journal - by Jenny Burns Staff Writer

Tony Giarratana is a man who thinks big. But to get his supersized skycraper off of the ground, he has to shrink his plans.

The Signature Tower is getting a recession makeover — dropping 20 stories from its original plan of 70 floors, removing all balconies and replacing hundreds of smaller condos with just a few larger, luxurious ones.

At 50 stories, the revised Signature will not be the tallest building in the Southeast as Giarratana had originally envisioned, likely falling to third or fourth behind towers in Atlanta and Charlotte, developers estimate.

It still will be the tallest building in Nashville at about 807 feet, surpassing the AT&T building’s 632-foot stature.

“When Signature is built, Nashville is no longer the same city,” says Tony Giarratana, president of Giarratana Development, who’s still determined to build his high-profile project. Giarratana has built several downtown high-rises including the Viridian condos and Cumberland Apartments on Church Street.

Signature Tower, planned for the corner of Fifth Avenue and Church Street downtown, has seen several incarnations. It was originally announced as a 55-story office, hotel and condo project in early 2005, then changed to just residential with retail on the ground floor.

A hotel was added in 2006 pushing it to 65 stories, and the tower later grew to 70 stories because of the condo boom. Giarratana got the city permit to start the project in 2007, but it stalled when it couldn’t get enough condo pre-sales.

As the condominium market took a nosedive and credit markets froze, it was evident to Giarratana that Signature would have to change too. The revised plans look like this:

• The bottom levels include retail, restaurants, meeting rooms, a ballroom, a bank and pool decks.

• Above that will be 172,000 square feet of top-tier office space.

• Up next is the hotel, which has grown from 198 rooms to 304 rooms.

• And the number of condos planned for the top floors of the structure have shrunk from 400 to 50 units.

• And underground, the parking garage has been cut from 630 spaces down to 360. Fewer condos means fewer parking spaces, and the move will save about $2 million, Giarratana says.

Giarratana’s team has searched for ways to cut the building’s price tag without sacrificing quality because the cost of capital has gone up tremendously. Giarratana says the amount of debt he can finance has dropped about 25 percent.

Giarratana says he would have had to use a New York contractor to build the 70-story Signature, but now he can hire a Southeast contractor for the shorter version. And the estimated 20 percent drop in construction costs helps too.

However, Giarratana says he isn’t certain yet how the changes will impact the tower’s original price tag of $250 million because of recent drops in materials and labor costs.

And the cuts don’t mean that financing is waiting in the wings. Giarratana says it’s unlikely that traditional construction financing will be available this year. That’s why his financial advisor, Chicago-based Jones Lang LaSalle, is looking for off-shore investors.

“Our advisors indicate that they are cautiously optimistic that financing can be obtained within the next eight to 12 months,” he says.

Office broker Rob Gage with Colliers Turley Martin Tucker says Giarratana is an accomplished developer, but questions the reality of getting financing for a skyscraper in today’s tough economic times. Gage estimates that any lender would require significant condo pre-sales and pre-leasing of the office space.

The downtown office market is at a 17.3 percent vacancy rate, not including the 240,000 square feet of space opening soon in the under-construction Pinnacle at Symphony Place.

No office tenants have been signed for Signature. Because the downtown vacancy rate is expected to reach 20 percent by year’s end, Giarratana says he will need to pre-lease 50 percent to 75 percent of the office space before starting construction.

“This is an unprecedented opportunity for a company to anchor a 50-story tower in downtown Nashville,” he says.

The tower’s 350 condos were cut because of an oversupply and limited demand. In Nashville’s 30 newest condo projects, about 1,420 condos are available but sales have been slow.

Office developer Barry Smith, president Eakin Partners, says Signature’s new make-up definitely is reflective of current demand for the condo market. The building wouldn’t open for three to four years, and in that time, Smith says the existing inventory for both condos and offices should be absorbed.

The redesigned condo units include five full-floor homes at the top, six two-story homes with oval staircases, four townhouse units and 35 flats. Instead of balconies, the condos have solariums, all-glass rooms where the windows open for fresh air. Many have exercise rooms and studies, and five units have outdoor terraces.

The units have not been priced, but the market for condo units above $1 million is limited in Nashville. In the past four years, 17 condo units have sold in new projects above that price point.

“I don’t have a crystal ball, but I don’t think the next four years is going to look like the last four years,” condo developer Ray Hensler says.

As for the expanded hotel, Giarratana says he’s not worried about the struggling hotel market, where occupancy and average daily rates have dropped during the recession. The city’s proposed convention center, he contends, will increase demand for high-end rooms downtown.

jburns@bizjournals.com | 615-846-4276

20% vacancy rate downtown, Pinnacle @ Symphony Place nearing completion, no office tenants signed up and now another 1000+ room hotel tower for a new convention center proposed. I'm not so sure about this one securing financing.

Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.

17.3 vacancy rate, ouch. Pinnacle is not even on the market, yet, right?

Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.

Seldom, have I seem a post filled with so many inaccuracies. The survey in the link below taken in 2005 shows that Nashville ranks 18th in the nation in business travelers and a whopping 8th in the nation convention / training / seminar travelers, so I wonder where you are getting this 130th in the nation for conventions stuff. As for other highrises in built in downtown during the past 25 years, you may want to add both the the 31 story Viridian, the 23 Story Cumberland Apartments and the 20 story Encore Towers, all of which were developed by the same Tony Giarratana that you seems to think is not up to the task. In addition to those, you might want to add the 30 story Fifth Third Center, the 35 story Rennaisance Center, the 27 Story Nashville City Center, and the 23 Story One Nashville Place all of which were built in downtown Nashville during the past 25 years. I suggest you do a little more research on Nashville.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2005_1st/Feb05_HabitsTracked.html

Also, the Signature Tower Hotel tenant has already been chosen. It will be a Hotel Palomar. They are NOT being considered for the Convention Center Hotel.

Seldom, have I seem a post filled with so many inaccuracies. The survey in the link below taken in 2005 shows that Nashville ranks 18th in the nation in business travelers and a whopping 8th in the nation convention / training / seminar travelers, so I wonder where you are getting this 130th in the nation for conventions stuff. As for other highrises in built in downtown during the past 25 years, you may want to add both the the 31 story Viridian, the 23 Story Cumberland Apartments and the 20 story Encore Towers, all of which were developed by the same Tony Giarratana that you seems to think is not up to the task. In addition to those, you might want to add the 30 story Fifth Third Center, the 35 story Rennaisance Center, the 27 Story Nashville City Center, and the 23 Story One Nashville Place all of which were built in downtown Nashville during the past 25 years. I suggest you do a little more research on Nashville.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2005_1st/Feb05_HabitsTracked.html

Also, the Signature Tower Hotel tenant has already been chosen. It will be a Hotel Palomar. They are NOT being considered for the Convention Center Hotel.

I got the 130th number from the Music City Center website. Yeah, It's not clear. I think it speaks of either size or usage of the current center as 126th. Also, I'm aware of the buildings you spoke of, but I mentioned "major highrises", as in skyscrapers, relative to the conversation of the Signature Tower. I am aware of the 20 story condos. Buildings like that go up every day in cities and on beaches. The 5th/3rd center is my favorite TN highrise and it was completed in 1986. The others you mentioned were all 20-25 years so, sue me. My point still stands.

...My point, which is that the downtown Nashville market IS over built and other emerging factors are undermining the attempts to finance the Signature Tower, as is clearly seen over the years. When a supertall goes up (800'+ now) it's USUALLY because of soaring demand and investment flows to it, not just because someone wants it there. As I said "it's not that it can't happen", but this thing has been a longshot since its conception.

17.3 vacancy rate, ouch. Pinnacle is not even on the market, yet, right?

The posted article said upwards of 20% before the Pinnacle opens it doors (240,000 sq.ft) and that's just office space. Condos and hotel rooms are already in large excess inventory.

But what will the vacancy rate be when the project is completed? That's the question. We know what has happened to dozens of highrises across the country that were proposed when vacancies were low. We're in the middle of the worst recession since at least the late 70s/early 80s, so vacancies nationally are high. Assuming that the policy changes in Washington don't kill the entire economy, Nashville is poised to rank among the leading cities in the country in terms of growth. Realistically, Signature Tower isn't going to be completed for at least 4-5 years at this point, and the vacancy rates may be dramatically different. Because of the time lag for these projects to come to completion developers have to project what the future holds, not what is currently found in a market.

20% vacancy rate downtown, Pinnacle @ Symphony Place nearing completion, no office tenants signed up and now another 1000+ room hotel tower for a new convention center proposed. I'm not so sure about this one securing financing.

While I remain doubtful about Signature ever rising, I assure you that the convention center and hotel will have funding, as they have dedicated taxes allocated expressly for their construction.

As far as vacancy downtown, the 20% figure is for all classes of office space. For class A, it's 11%, not as bad as in most cities. A proposed medical trade center should take up a lot of that space... and then some. I understand that they are looking at all available space in either the Pinnacle, ATT, or Regions towers.

Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.

LOL... you've never been here, have you. I cannot add a lot to Hankster's post, but I relish in telling you that Nashville has virtually doubled in size in the past twenty-five years from 850,000 to 1.65 million, and the core has increased by 230,000 in the past 30 years (from 411,000 to 640,000). Gosh, that doesn't sound like a boomtown, naaaahhh, not at all -- if you're clueless about Nashville. Oh, and the US Census Bureau projects -- and they always fall short in their projections for Nashville -- that the metro will have about 3 million people in twenty years. Just look at the Tennessean article this week that the Nashville economy (and population) is among the top in growth in the nation despite the poor economy. It has long been among the ten most diverse economies in the nation (the most diverse in the South), and in 2007 grew faster (by 40,000) than in any year prior (data for later years were not available). In the last twenty-five years, Nashville has held its own with Raleigh, Charlotte and Austin (another city that holds a special place in my heart).

Your post sounds more like civic jealousy, and if that's the case, it's no wonder to me why you did not mention where you live in your profile.

His profile reads:

"Johnny Ryall has not made any friends yet." :)

I got the 130th number from the Music City Center website. Yeah, It's not clear. I think it speaks of either size or usage of the current center as 126th. Also, I'm aware of the buildings you spoke of, but I mentioned "major highrises", as in skyscrapers, relative to the conversation of the Signature Tower. I am aware of the 20 story condos. Buildings like that go up every day in cities and on beaches. The 5th/3rd center is my favorite TN highrise and it was completed in 1986. The others you mentioned were all 20-25 years so, sue me. My point still stands.

That 130th number is just the current convention center (alone) and does not include the much greater number of conventions that are held at the Opryland Hotel and Convention Center. Opryland puts Nashville in the top fifteen convention cities... easily. With the MCC, Nashville will rocket up to the top ten in conventions... and three highly reputable travel consultants bear out the fact that Nashville will draw the projected number of conventions. Its unique blend of culture, size, beauty, and central location are already a draw that far exceed many of the top convention destinations. Currently, the city is limited on the upside by the economy (which we assume will not stay bad) and the size of the current convention facilities which are severely outdated.

That just takes me back to my original statement. The urban core of Nashville is not leading the nation in terms of growth, not even Davidson county. Some small towns in Nashville's extreme southern metro counties are currently growing at a high rate, but I haven't seen them or Nashville top any national list. Then again that's not something I've researched in depth. So, i'd like to see some numbers on that. Even so that just creates commercial submarkets with cushy office parks that compete directly with downtown. Look at a city like Charlotte. It is a prime example of what a boom city is. There's so much construction of new highrises & skyscrapers, it's surreal. Nashville has nothing like that on the drawing board. The city itself had a pretty good spurt back in the 1970's & early 80's with it's downtown, but that has drastically slowed. Even if the Signature was built, cities like Charlotte, Raleigh & Austin, which are of relative size, are leaving Nashville in their wake. Don't even mention the south's big 4. Nashville does well for itself, but there's a lot of age-old hype people just aren't buying anymore. And yes I've been in and around Nashville many, many times. Also, I used to live in Chicago. Don't believe everything you read in the Tennessean. It crunches its own numbers, hypes and will have you believing Nashville is the capital of the world.

Insighter, I read that article in the Tennessean and the first quote underneath it was this... "Funny how Nashville media and leadership can selectively love and embrace one Brookings study but can instantly dismiss a more pertinent one regarding run away spending on convention facilities. No U.S. city has become successful and grew by investing primarily in conventions and tourism. Not one."
Further more, that article didn't say anything concrete. Just a bunch of hype as usual.

And here are some random numbers from Forbes national metro rankings on Nashville:

Colleges 38th
Cost of Doing Business 42nd
Cost Of Living 111th
Crime Rate 149th (9th most violent city in the nation!)
Culture & Leisure 98th
Educational Attainment 82nd
Income Growth 85th
Job Growth 47th
Net Migration 51st

Nashville was also ranked the 8th most miserable city to live in and maybe it'll be #1 if they build that horrendous convention center.

:bash:

Now that we got that out of the way let's get back to the Signature tower. I'm thru with this thread :lol:

You conveniently left out that Nashville ranked 9th in "Best Places for Business and Careers" in 2007 and 25th in 2009 and 10th for "Best Places to Retire." If you're going to use Forbes rankings then you have to use the good with the bad.

Of course, we all know how scientific Forbes' rankings are anyway. No matter how you cut it, Nashville will qualify as a booming metro area with very solid inner core growth (both in terms of population and in terms of building). There have been around 5highrises finished in Nashville's core in the last 3 years if you count Symphony which is nearing completion.

Johnny conveniently left out a lot of information. He's no better than the selective media he attacks. It's apparent to me that he is a frustrated booster of the woefully mismanaged, perennial cellar-dweller of cities, Memphis. When I moved to Nashville, I couldn't understand the negative reaction of my colleagues when the subject of Memphis arose. I quickly learned the reason. In my line of work (banking), we do as little as possible in Memphis because the leadership is so f##ked up... not to mention as corrupt as Detroit. Two years ago, we had a huge deal that would have put condos in midtown, but the city council members started demanding that we pay this and that, and no fewer than four demanded that they be paid for their votes. We pulled out in a hurry. Some people may want to do business that way, but not me.

So, I can understand the jealousy of a person who sees his city going down the crapper, but I think that being motivated by said jealousy to knock another city borders on the mentally ill.

Oh, and if Johnny (or anyone else) wants to know what those real numbers are... he/you can come and ask me. We get quarterly figures on virtually all market data put together by our actuaries and a team of consultants for which we pay good money. However, I won't give you all their info without making you pay for it too. Their data has proven to be more accurate than USCB estimates for the past twenty years. I've even won bets on demographic figures that we had before Commerce released their decennial census.

Nashville was also ranked the 8th most miserable city to live in and maybe it'll be #1 if they build that horrendous convention center.

There is no question about whether the CC will be built or not. The mayor and an overwhelming majority of the Metro Council are behind this one. It's already moving forward. Get over it. Memphis will be behind Nashville in yet another category.

As soon as you bring it to lame Memphis-Nashville beef your reckless debate shows. It's true Most of Nashville's numbers crunch better than that of Memphis over the past 20+ years, but that would be a first for history. There was a exodus like trend in the 70's & early 80's for downtown Memphis that built the huge East Memphis market which is bigger than any downtown in the state, save Nashville. Those trends have slowly reversed and have seen downtown and the medical district surge into a $3,000,000,000 expansion which is accelerating with more projects in the works. Memphis has already seen its worst days 20-30 years ago and its future is starting to look much brighter. We are no Detroit, but I wish someone would help that place out instead of crap all over it. Memphis' local government has its share of corruption, but so does a city like Atlanta. The exit of our clown mayor and pending city-county merger will change politics & perception. The last time a fortune 500 company relocated to Tennessee it chose Memphis, not Nashville and Memphis is home to just as many (more if you include fortune 600). Most of Tennessee's major current growth is in a corridor which runs from Knoxville to the Tri-cities. A paper like the Tennessean will not report major growth in MS counties included in the Memphis MSA which includes 3 states. Memphis is adding 2 interstates and is finishing up its greater loop to add to it's infrastructure linking it directly to cities like Indianapolis, Houston & Birmingham in the future. Also, which will be huge economic engines for its transportation & logistics industry, not to mention the world's busiest freight airport, 4th largest inland port & 3rd largest railyard. Memphis is the only city in the nation to exceed national averages in 4 of the 5 sectors of BioTechnology. It dominates with tourism. It has been named one the best cities in America to start and/or grow a business by Forbes & Money. I won't say Memphis will lead the nation into the 21st century like your delusions of grandeur, but everyone should expect great things to come in the future from the city that changed the culture of the world with Rock n Roll (not corporate pop country sold to fat kids @ wal-mart). Keep it real :nocrook:

As soon as you bring it to lame Memphis-Nashville beef your reckless debate shows. It's true Most of Nashville's numbers crunch better than that of Memphis over the past 20+ years, but that would be a first for history. There was a exodus like trend in the 70's & early 80's for downtown Memphis that built the huge East Memphis market which is bigger than any downtown in the state, save Nashville. Those trends have slowly reversed and have seen downtown and the medical district surge into a $3,000,000,000 expansion which is accelerating with more projects in the works. Memphis has already seen its worst days 20-30 years ago and its future is starting to look much brighter. We are no Detroit, but I wish someone would help that place out instead of crap all over it. Memphis' local government has its share of corruption, but so does a city like Atlanta. The exit of our clown mayor and pending city-county merger will change politics & perception. The last time a fortune 500 company relocated to Tennessee it chose Memphis, not Nashville and Memphis is home to just as many (more if you include fortune 600). Most of Tennessee's major current growth is in a corridor which runs from Knoxville to the Tri-cities. A paper like the Tennessean will not report major growth in MS counties included in the Memphis MSA which includes 3 states. Memphis is adding 2 interstates and is finishing up its greater loop to add to it's infrastructure linking it directly to cities like Indianapolis, Houston & Birmingham in the future. Also, which will be huge economic engines for its transportation & logistics industry, not to mention the world's busiest freight airport, 4th largest inland port & 3rd largest railyard. Memphis is the only city in the nation to exceed national averages in 4 of the 5 sectors of BioTechnology. It dominates with tourism. It has been named one the best cities in America to start and/or grow a business by Forbes & Money. I won't say Memphis will lead the nation into the 21st century like your delusions of grandeur, but everyone should expect great things to come in the future from the city that changed the culture of the world with Rock n Roll (not corporate pop country sold to fat kids @ wal-mart). Keep it real :nocrook:

Okay.. You guys can keep the fat man in the white leisure suit. :ohno:

Keep boosting your place, but try to do so without bashing other places... your sense of inferiority shines through. Oh, and Hankster was the first to call you on your misinformation... but maybe you can explain why Middle Tennessee passed East Tennessee in population last year.

Finally... of all that you said, the saddest thing is that Memphis languishes despite all the assets you listed. As you noted, people are fleeing Memphis for Desoto county, and now, Fayette and Tipton. Even the city's premier corporation (FedEx) cannot bring itself to locate downtown. New Orleans bills itself as "The City that Care Forgot"... well, Memphis could effectively bill itself as "The City that Doesn't Care."

Good grief. Johnny Ryall must be kingchef from city-data. He's the only other Memphis poster I know who spends all his time posting looking for ways to undercut Nashville in random threads. Get a life, man. Just say you hate Nashville and move on. :ohno:

On a nicer note, no, I'm not "king chef". I don't hate Nashville, nor do I spend my time stalking forums. I still hope the Signature Tower gets built because it really is a beautiful design. I'm a fan of some of the modern architecture in Nashville (the Fifth-Third & new Pinnacle). It's a strong showing for a city its size. I have friends there, visit and think it's a pretty nice place. :hug:

http://www.nashvillecondoscentral.com/images/Signature%20Tower.jpg

On a nicer note, no, I'm not "king chef". I don't hate Nashville, nor do I spend my time stalking forums. I still hope the Signature Tower gets built because it really is a beautiful design. I'm a fan of some of the modern architecture in Nashville (the Fifth-Third & new Pinnacle). It's a strong showing for a city its size. I have friends there, visit and think it's a pretty nice place. :hug:

http://www.nashvillecondoscentral.com/images/Signature%20Tower.jpg

reduced height still doesnt take away from how nice this tower looks,will be a great addition to the Nashville skyline!:)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9615/nashvillesignaturetowerct2.jpg

Based on the public unveiling today in Nashville, the approved Signature Tower will stand an impressive 65 stories / 1,047 feet tall making it the tallest U.S. skyscraper outside of New York and Chicago. Wow!! :)

The top of this building looks great!

reduced height still doesnt take away from how nice this tower looks,will be a great addition to the Nashville skyline!:)

This thing is not getting built. Its been around for probably 4 years now, and the current height is about what the height for the original proposal was. So basically they havnt gotten anywhere in 4 years.

I live in Nashville. The site where it is to be built is now a parking lot owned by primier parking. I dont think it will get built.

I live in Nashville. The site where it is to be built is now a parking lot owned by primier parking. I dont think it will get built.

Many projects in downtown Seattle area were parking lots before they got built. Some developers just using their properties as parking lots to make some money before it got built. That is very common in many US cities.

When they says that the Signature Tower will be the tallest outside of New York and Chicago, they're speaking in terms of feet, not stories.

When they says that the Signature Tower will be the tallest outside of New York and Chicago, they're speaking in terms of feet, not stories.

It wont be the tallest b/t NY and CHI now!since the 200' height reduction!ATL,Char,Cle,Philly,NY,Chi all will still have taller scrapers outside of that-Dal,Hou,LA,Sea and in 2012 OKC also have taller scrapers-if it was built right now it would be behind ATL,Char in height just for the south region!not counting what miami has going on!

This project frustrates me so! I hope once this "troubled economy" is over they will sell enough condos and hotel and office space to make it 1,047 foot tall again!

^^ " Good luck with THAT! " ^^

^^ Why, thank you!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You're welcome!

build it.

Was this tower cancelled or anything? That'd be a real pity, it's one of my favourite skyscraper projects. :(
Just love the Art Déco like postmodern crown and the slender appearance.

The website is down: http://www.signaturetowernashville.com/

And I couldn't find any news from 2011.

This tower has long since been cancelled.

Could you please give some evidence / source for that? We see nothing's happening, but did they officially cancel it?

Could you please give some evidence / source for that? We see nothing's happening, but did they officially cancel it?

There hasn't been any news in more than two years. That says it all. Most developers don't want to admit failure publicly.

This thread should go to the DN Archives.

That is terrible. It's such a magnificent design. I would LOVE to see that this in Seattle.

Could you please give some evidence / source for that? We see nothing's happening, but did they officially cancel it?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=344749&page=21

The developer who has a lot of money tied into the project, refuses to give up but if it can ever get financing in a market where jumbo mortgages are non-existent, then at best it would be drastically scaled back. This one's dead as a supertall. I'd archive the thread.

Nashville could use a skyscraper like this.