http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/d/da/Manchester_United_FC.svg/150px-Manchester_United_FC.svg.png
Manchester United FC

19x Champion (record):
1908, 1911, 1952, 1956, 1957,
1965, 1967, 1993, 1994, 1996,
1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003,
2007, 2008, 2009, 2011

11x Cup Winner (record):
1909, 1948, 1963, 1977, 1983,
1985, 1990, 1994, 1996, 1999,
2004

5x League Cup:
1992, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010

19x Supercup (record):
1908, 1911, 1952, 1956, 1957,
1965, 1967, 1977, 1983, 1990,
1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003,
2007, 2008, 2010, 2011

3x UEFA Champions League:
1968, 1999, 2008

1x UEFA Cup Winners' Cup:
1991

1x UEFA Super Cup:
1991

2x FIFA Club World Cup:
1999, 2008

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2429/3567499231_b3f810907a_b.jpg

98% of MU's supporters have never seen Old Trafford!

You're right Man Utd are very popular all over the world. I see that as a very positive thing for them.

I'm not a big fan of this stadium but the filled in corners improves it.

the new corners look great, looks better than before,if thay do all the corners it will look a superb, 82,500 stadium. :wallbash:

They won't expand the other two corners on their own. The problem on that side is the railway. They main stand doesn't have a top tier, it is still the same size as it was when the ground was a 45,000 seater built up to the same height all the way round. If they decide to rebuild it, they will either do the main part of the stand first, and the corners afterwards, or the whole thing at once.

Bah - other stadiums that are far less well off have expanded over roads and railways - Manchester United being the worlds richest all sports club could easily afford to make the worlds highest capacity stadium ever - hell they have the money to splash out on and build a 20,000,000 capacity stadium and still be a sell out :lol:

I think they will eventually expand the main stand. There were reports that a small expansion of the main stand overhanging the railway were being considered.
In stead of this theyre expanding the corners on the other side getting seats with a poorer view. The reason may well be that they dont want a small expansion of the main stand get in the way of a possible large scale expansion later.

It probably will not happen for years as the board is extremly carefull and want to see years of endless sell-outs before they do anything, but at some point I am sure they will "finish" the venue, getting a 90,000 venue

has work started on the new corners yet,will it be ready for the start of next season

has work started on the new corners yet,will it be ready for the start of next season

No and No, it's not likely to happen for a few months yet.

Work will start no earlier than Summer 2005, and will take 2 years.

I've already posted this in another thread but Just some news for pps who may have missed it.

Manchester United have applied for planning permission to increase the capacity of their Old Trafford stadium from 67,500 to 75,000.
United have submitted their request to Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council to expand the north east and north west Quadrants of the ground.

The PLC board said subject to approval it will decide whether to proceed prior to the contracts being awarded.

The move comes after United conducted a feasibility study into the plan.

Man Utd eye 75,000 capacity

Officials have previously resisted demands to increase the capacity, believing the club's current 67,500 stadium large enough for their needs.

The fear at United has been not filling the stadium for every game and ending up in the same embarrassing situation as some of their continental rivals by having a huge ground which is barely half full.

But every Premiership match at Old Trafford has been a sell-out since the last redevelopment was completed four years ago, giving rise to this latest announcement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foo...utd/3645526.stm

They should just top it up to 100,000 and get it over with. Manchester is sports MAD and you can never get tickets for Man U anyway. At least with 100,000 seats you might stand a chance in hell of getting in. Hopefully??

That looks...well I don't much like it...the poor looking struts that seem so popular over in Europe just don't do it for me...especially when they look so bloated like in this creation.

Work will start no earlier than Summer 2005, and will take 2 years.

It will be finished by summer 2006, work has already started.

I can tell you so far that they have done some lower steel work only lower than the first floor. I think they have stopped now untill the end the season.

how will the interior change?

how will the interior change?


They've not released any pics of the interior. But my guess is that they'll extend the thid tier and it'll swoop down onto the new two tier corner.

New capacity will be 76,400.

They've not released any pics of the interior. But my guess is that they'll extend the thid tier and it'll swoop down onto the new two tier corner.

New capacity will be 76,400.

I thought they would be the same size as the upper tiers in the east and west stands.

You will just have to wait and see. Am probs going game tomorrow i'll get some pics.

Some Pictures from todays game. 10 Mins befour kickoff.
East Stand and Corner Stand
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/2004_0102Image0003Copyrighted.jpg
North and East Stands and corner stand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/2004_0102Image0002Copyrighted.jpg

how will the interior change?

The interior will probably be more of the same. I seem to recall that about half of the new capacity will be for 'premium' seating so it'll not affect low-rollers like myself too much :)

It's a flippin big stadium, gonna get bigger. I have been Old Trafford when we beat them 1-0.

I go nearly every game because I know people who can get tickets and also who dont always go. I also went both games this season when we beat you 2-0 and 1-0.

You didn't get any pictures from outside the ground did you?

I go nearly every game because I know people who can get tickets and also who dont always go. I also went both games this season when we beat you 2-0 and 1-0.

Well done.

2nd Arsenal
4th Man United.

:)

We'll see at the end of the season. Its not over yet.

It was way to busy to get any from out side. If I go when its not busy i'll get some. I was planning to get a picture of the steel work but there wasnt much of a chance of that.

Pic from todays game 5 mins after half time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/2005_0122Manchesterutd0004copyright.jpg

Imagine if the do all sides....it will be huge!

They should build over the railway IMO....the trains could go under the stadium and if its a bridge or something!

They will do the south stand in time, meaning we'll end up with a stadium bigger in capacity than the new Wembley (estimate 94,000 seater). Wont happen for around 8 years though.

so, will they realy built a 2nd tier at the mainstand?

"Wont happen for around 8 years though."

If they do...I think it will be ready for the 2012 Olympics!

yes, i know..but i thought it was "impossible" because of the railway.

The tier could overhang the railway.

http://www.bobrowski.co.uk/Images/Ipswich/300northstand-plans3.gif

It is not impossible because of the railway. There used to be a model, not sure if you can still see it now, but it was the whole stadium done, and the south stand was an exact copy of the north, yet didn't have as much of the scaffolding on the top (more like the Stret and Scoreboard style roof).

When it does happen, it will be a north stand copy (three tiers), and will complete the stadium. Overhangs & two tier ideas would be bizzare, because it would complete the stadium, it will not change for a very long time after the south stand is done. Due to the cost, they might as well go the whole hog and be done with it, instead of then having to try and amplify a funny solution later.

The Calderon in Madrid (Athletico's current stadium) has a four lane motorway going under one of its main stands, so there is no reason a train couldn't go underneath a new south stand. The old Landsdown Road in Dublin also had a train line under one of its main stands). The line doesn't actually go very far anyway does it? About 500m to a freight terminal (sorry, don't go on trains very much), so they could also move that. There are various solutions. But the tunnel idea is obviously the most valid. It would occur a cost due to safety standards in the even of a mishap, and also terrorism, but these are not problems without solutions.

The major problem as I see it are the houses on the other side of the line. As far as I understand, the club owns most of that land anway, but there would probably an outcry from the residents of those houses.

I thought they would be the same size as the upper tiers in the east and west stands.

I you look at it, it starts at the same height of the north stand and curves down to the height of the Stret and Score.

Wait a mo!

Andy posted this in the thread in the UK forums. It shows a lot more clearly how it will be done in consideration to the differing heights of the three tier north stand and the Stret/Score ends. Coming down in height as it curves.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/2004_0101utd0004.jpg

How old is that ^

Its says work will be finished august 2006

Not a bad stadium, for a pack of baztards

The tier could overhang the railway.

http://www.bobrowski.co.uk/Images/Ipswich/300northstand-plans3.gif

i think a 2nd tier is more realistic. at least you don't need a tunnel

i think a 2nd tier is more realistic. at least you don't need a tunnel


No it's not. Three tier South has always been our long term goal. As Weastedevil has mentioned, there was an old model of a fully extended Old Trafford and the South was three tiers, but without the scaffolding. Furthermore, United were thinking about a short term two tier fix on South Stand, which would've added 8 thousand, but thought against it, as the long term plan was for a much larger three tier extension. . . instead we've planned for the corners.

On more thing. The third tier sits directly on top of the second, it doesn't overhang, so that won't be an issue.

How old is that ^

Its says work will be finished august 2006
I think it's from out of a match programme around the end of Feb / Beginning of March. It says work should be starting anytime now. 16 months construction time is not that out of the gap. Remember, that the current single tier corners will not be removed, instead the extra tier/seating deck is being plonked in. It's not as if they have to demolish anything significant, mainly just lift the current roof off and start building.

So, will the third tier swoop down? ie getting extended to merge with the second?

It looks like that is what will happen. Or it might only just be the roof?

Difficult to tell as we have no renders from inside the stadium.

Is there no way of getting renders from inside the stadium?

Would like to see how the whole thing will look.

Maybe there is, but I've never seen one. We've not even seen detailed plans.

Would they be submitted to Trafford Council Planning Department in exactly the same way as a normal planning app?

Yes, I see why not.

Surely someone must know how to get old of them.

ps I'll be a bit gutted if the North doesn't swoop down.

Do Trafford Borough Council put up planning apps on their website as PDFs like Salford City Council do?

Will have to have a look.

No idea, Weastedevil.

Post any new info, mate.

Thinking about it though, it would be a bit odd for the second tier corners to meet the second tier North, and have the current third tier North just sort of stuck there up above coming to an abrupt end. If you get my meaning.

They must be extending it, swooping its height down as it goes, bit like in City's stadium second tier.

Well it won't be happening for ages, Manchester United are notoriously unambitious when it comes to stadium expansion.

Yes. Also if you think about, if they don't extend that portion, then there will a whole potential viewing area wasted. We can't go three tiers all the way to the goal ends because of the roof, but the amount that's been render ie the part that swoops down, will increase the capacity by maximum amount possible, without changing the roof. Not extending the North a tad, would be foolish, after spending so much cash.

I think it will look great this way. And when the otherside's done the same way, it will be one hell of a stadium.

Well it won't be happening for ages, Manchester United are notoriously unambitious when it comes to stadium expansion.


We can only afford to pay for it, when the other extensions have been paid for. Usually we extend every 5 years. Apparently the corners will be paid for within the next five aswell.

We'll extend the South in 5 years, I think.

Well it won't be happening for ages, Manchester United are notoriously unambitious when it comes to stadium expansion.

I don't think that expanding from 44,000 in 1995 to 76,500 in 2005 is unambitious. Adding 33,000 seats (yes it has taken 10 years) is actually more than either the new Highbury or the new Andfield are actually doing if you consider the number of seats they add to what those clubs have already.

And we've done it without borrowing any money. :cheers:

If you think about it, we actually showed a lot of ambition, going for stadium expansion 10 years before any of the other major clubs. By the time Arsenal's and Liverpool's new stadiums are finished, we'll still have over 16,000 more seats than both of them.

And we'll still only be 3/4 of the way there. :)

The planning aps are different in Trafford than most places. Old Trafford is in the Trafford Park planning area and nearly anything gets built thats applied for. The other side of the tracks is the residential side so if Old Trafford had been on that side of the tracks I dont think you would have seen much expansion as we have done.

You cant call it unambitious the ground is one of the best and biggest in england. You cant just go out and build a massive ground. Example city got there new ground and decide to pay for the extra work to make it bigger. It cost them something like £45-60 million to replace the wooden stand and dig down for more seats. They have been in debt ever since because they couldnt really afford it. Now United have just stuck with what they can afford and look at their ground now.

I wonder if Eastlands is expandable.

They could lower the pitch level even more and extend the lower tier by 5 or 6 rows adding I guess a few thousand extra seats. There is a large gap from the stands to the actual pitch so it should be possible.

They could lower the pitch level even more and extend the lower tier by 5 or 6 rows adding I guess a few thousand extra seats. There is a large gap from the stands to the actual pitch so it should be possible.

I'v never been there but I can't see much of a gap in any of the photo's posted.

If you have a look at my pic on the other page. Where the pitch ends theres about a 2 or 3 feet befour you reach the first seating. I took that pic from the east stand and the space is like that all the way round the north to the west stands. The south there is abit more space. about an extra 3 foot but thats used by the players for warming up. They have really reached the max digging down. From ground level out side the studium the pitch is 7 meters down.

98% of MU's supporters have never seen Old Trafford!


I work every match there and I'm not a real supporter of that team.

They could lower the pitch level even more and extend the lower tier by 5 or 6 rows adding I guess a few thousand extra seats. There is a large gap from the stands to the actual pitch so it should be possible.

This is not possibe due to the way the OT pitch is actually laid down.

First of all, the pitch actually arcs, it is not flat, and is 1.5 metres higher in the centre than at the sidelines, then if you look, if drops like hell, maybe another .5 of a metre to where the stands are.

The reason it is done like this is for drainage purposes. The arc obviously encourages water to flow off the pitch, and under the pitch there are huge drains, I mean huge ones, and a mass of hot water powered pipes to defrost the place. You will never get a match called off a OT for bad weather, all though I've seen it close, but that was a really freaky pissdown. I think it was in 97 against Boro.

I wonder if Eastlands is expandable.

I think Andy is wrong on that TBH. MCC got Maine road for free, and it was always in the deal to do what they did with the city of Manchester Stadium. In fact, any gate over the Maine Road gate they get at the City of Manchester Stadium goes to the council, and City have a 99 year lease on that ground, it does not belong to Manchester City.

It was offered to United BTW in its original 100,000 seat configuration, but we turned it down.

OT will always be our home, and it will always be called OT! No sponors thanyou. The club would have tried it already if it was ever going to happen, but even the board of the PLC know you have to keep your soul intact at least a little.

I wonder if Eastlands is expandable.

No, it's not.

There were several designs for that stadium when we were bidding for the Olypic Games of 96, and the 100,000 seater obviously didn't win. It was still then offered to United in that configuration as part of the run up to the CW Games and the bidding for the national stadium, which we lost to Wembley.

Wierd really, if United had said yes, and we had won the National Stadium competition, a 100,000 seat, convertable from football to athletics at 80,000 seat stadium would have existed in 2002, and at a far lower cost than the new Wembley. As far as I can remeber, a third of the cost.

I´m glad that we said no BTW. OT is out spiritual home, and there we will stay.

It says a lot for the ambition of the blokes that took us there in 1902 that they, unlike many other clubs, gave us a lot of room to expand.

Yes I do remember the original. Was a cracking design. Much better from the inside as well than the one they built. As for not being expandable, not sure you're right. Thing is, if they extend it, the shape of the stadium will change, which would we be a shame, because it's the swooping design which makes it look great from the outside, together with those spirals. Not keen on the interior, that said.

and I'm a bit of a nostalgia nut. Would've loved the idea of playing across the road from Bank St, our second home, and a stones throw away from Newton Heath our real spritual home. Old Trafford's great and it's a part of Manchester United, but spiritual home it is not.

Would've loved the idea of playing across the road from Bank St, our second home, and a stones throw away from Newton Heath our real spritual home. Old Trafford's great and it's a part of Manchester United, but spiritual home it is not.

Why don't we just build a cinder and wood stadium on the sight of the old LYR works canteen at Dean Lane

City got given Eastlands as it was with the wooden stand at the end but they had to pay the cost of building a new stand and digging down into the pitch which cost them £45 million plus. I know this because someone I know had contacts in city. Thats why they are in debt.

I remember reading somewhere that it was possible to add an extra 4,000 seats to Eastlands, taking it up to 52,000. Although with City's crowds dropping that's looking unlikely at the moment.

and I'm a bit of a nostalgia nut. Would've loved the idea of playing across the road from Bank St, our second home, and a stones throw away from Newton Heath our real spritual home. Old Trafford's great and it's a part of Manchester United, but spiritual home it is not.

I'd guess that most fans would rate 100 years of history at Old Trafford above a few decades in the 19th century.

The man utd board being the penny pitchers they are I wouldnt be supprized to find that their waiting for another england WC bid in the hope they'll get some goverment/lottery assistance with the south stand since I expect Old Trafford would be the no. 2 stadium behind Wembley.

This is not possibe due to the way the OT pitch is actually laid down.

First of all, the pitch actually arcs, it is not flat, and is 1.5 metres higher in the centre than at the sidelines, then if you look, if drops like hell, maybe another .5 of a metre to where the stands are.

The reason it is done like this is for drainage purposes. The arc obviously encourages water to flow off the pitch, and under the pitch there are huge drains, I mean huge ones, and a mass of hot water powered pipes to defrost the place. You will never get a match called off a OT for bad weather, all though I've seen it close, but that was a really freaky pissdown. I think it was in 97 against Boro.

I was referring to the COMS.

I've only just noticed, are they recladding the South stand at the same time? Its gone grey in the picture of the expansion?

I've only just noticed, are they recladding the South stand at the same time? Its gone grey in the picture of the expansion?
They spent £5 million last year or the year before doing the south up.

Does the Glazier take over mean the expansion plans have been put on hold or abandoned?

Does the Glazier take over mean the expansion plans have been put on hold or abandoned?
I doubt it considering he's going to need all the income he can get to payoff his loans.

Expansion is a priority for him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to expand the south stand soon.

Does the Glazier take over mean the expansion plans have been put on hold or abandoned?

He said he want's the expansion to go ahead.

Since he's borrowing so much it actually makes a lot of sense for him to maximise his income by pushing for the South Stand to be expanded sooner rather than later. But I would expect to see a LOT more 'premium' seating at £100 a pop so the numerical expansion might not be so big as it was in the North Stand.

Once all the fuss has died down I think the Glazer takeover will be good for thwe club. All the pessimists seem to overlook the fact that he cannot possibly run the team down and expect tomake this deal work. Only by having a winning team can he recoup his investment.

He said he want's the expansion to go ahead.

Since he's borrowing so much it actually makes a lot of sense for him to maximise his income by pushing for the South Stand to be expanded sooner rather than later. But I would expect to see a LOT more 'premium' seating at £100 a pop so the numerical expansion might not be so big as it was in the North Stand.
I'd guess that was probabley going to happen anyway as I'd guess even Man Utd would be pushed to sellout 95,000 every game.
Once all the fuss has died down I think the Glazer takeover will be good for the club. All the pessimists seem to overlook the fact that he cannot possibly run the team down and expect tomake this deal work. Only by having a winning team can he recoup his investment.
Looking at his record he certainly seems to be someone who knows what he's doing compaired to some of the pie in the sky "fan" owners we've seen in the prem(and then quickly in div 1) recently. Theres always going to be a risk with the kind of loans he's taken out but if anyone suffers from this I think its mroe likely to be Man Utd fans(paying higher prices for tickets) and other clubs(getting less TV money when Man Utd sell their rights solo).

I dunno about this, I can see him selling the stadium and leasing it back to generate short term cash.

Sad!

I dunno about this, I can see him selling the stadium and leasing it back to generate short term cash.

Sad!

That doesn't make much sense as a business proposition though. I think it's more likely that he'll sell the stadiums name to someone like Nike and we'll be playing in Nike Stadium for the next 20 years. If Arsenal got £100M for Ashburton Grove then I think we can fairly expect to see double that for Old Trafford.

Also, we can expect to see the occasional NFL game in Manchester and Manchester United will play a preseason game in Tampa Bay periodically. We might also expect to see Mr Glazer actually VISIT Manchester!

For all the panic about ticket prices, Uniteds are cheaper than most teams as it is and he'd be very unlikely to push prices up to a level that the fan's won't pay. Empty seats will look very, very bad for him.

Old Trafford Today.

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0005.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0008.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0010.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0011.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0012.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0013.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0014.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0016.jpg

http://www.imgupload.us/uploads/sIMG_0017.jpg

76,000 here we come. :cheers:

Old Trafford Today.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0005.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0008.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0010.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0011.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0012.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0013.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0014.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0016.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/sIMG_0017.jpg

76,000 here we come. :cheers:


Umm....don't know about anyone else but I'm just getting a whole succession of red crosses on the page.

Try again!

Umm....don't know about anyone else but I'm just getting a whole succession of red crosses on the page.

Try again!

Don't have to try again!

That's because the bandwidth of the server has exceeded its 24hr limit (and I know why). You'll have to wait a while.

So somethings happening then??


describe whats going on in the pics

As far as Glazer is concerned I don't think its going to be the stadium that desides his sucess but the TV deal. Right now Prem TV rights are sold on a league basis with every club getting more or less(a little more for a higher finish and more games on TV) the same at around £30 million a season. The current deal with Sky ends at the end of next season and I'm sure Glazer will try to break away from it as Man Utd's rights sold solo are probabley worth at least £100 million a season(considering big Italian/Spanish clubs who do the same get £70 million a year) and maybe even more if all the games are on Pay Per View.

Thats ultimately why Glazer has taken over more than anythign else meaning that ironically its not actually as many detractors have claimed the clubs commercialisation that led to this chain of events but the fact that they are not commerial enough.

As far as Glazer is concerned I don't think its going to be the stadium that desides his sucess but the TV deal. Right now Prem TV rights are sold on a league basis with every club getting more or less(a little more for a higher finish and more games on TV) the same at around £30 million a season. The current deal with Sky ends at the end of next season and I'm sure Glazer will try to break away from it as Man Utd's rights sold solo are probabley worth at least £100 million a season(considering big Italian/Spanish clubs who do the same get £70 million a year) and maybe even more if all the games are on Pay Per View.

Thats ultimately why Glazer has taken over more than anythign else meaning that ironically its not actually as many detractors have claimed the clubs commercialisation that led to this chain of events but the fact that they are not commerial enough.

Yes. That's almost certainly what Glazer will try to do. And it's very bad news for English football. Will only widen the gap between the few haves and the many have nots and make the Premiership even more of a non competition.

Heave a big sigh for the old days when football was about more than just money and when any well run club could make a challenge for major trophies.

The renegotiation of TV rights does seem to be Glazers long term plan but then again why was this an avenue that the original board hadnt planned to use if it is such a viable option?
On a completely different subject, are there any plans at all to install any big TV/video screens at Old Trafford like those found in the majority of other big stadiums?

Changed the server, should be working now.

The renegotiation of TV rights does seem to be Glazers long term plan but then again why was this an avenue that the original board hadnt planned to use if it is such a viable option?

Its certainly not going to be easy for him to do as he's either going to have to convince 12 other clubs to vote for solo deals or break the prem contract in the courts. Maybe the old board were looking at trying to do the same sometime in the future but I'd guess it wasnt fully reflected in the share price hence Glazer thinks he can make a mint. If he were to get a solo contract I would not be at all supprized to see him sell up right away as you can bet their share price would go though the roof.

still....Im so happy this is happening, I thought it would be ages...but hey...


And Im a Liverpool fan

Old Trafford Yesterday, all photos taken by mickthered from redcafe.net so loads of thanks to him.

Bloody swine actually got inside the bloody stadium. One up on me! :bow:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev2.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev4.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev5.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev6.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev7.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev8.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/OTdev9.jpg

Thanks mick!

76,00 here we come! :cheers:

Amazing....how long is the work expected to take?

Old Trafford Yesterday, all photos taken by mickthered from redcafe.net so loads of thanks to him.

Bloody swine actually got inside the bloody stadium. One up on me! :bow:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev1.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev3.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev4.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev5.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev6.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev7.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev8.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/potman/OTdev9.jpg

Thanks mick!

76,00 here we come! :cheers:


I'm just getting red crosses again?

pics are here too http://redcafe.net/showthread.php?t=79862

Amazing....how long is the work expected to take?

Should be finished by start of 2006/2007 season.

Heres the pic youve seen dozens of times.....but for the new guys, this is whats going on.

http://img25.echo.cx/img25/5536/ot9sm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Wow impressive i didn't know work had already started. Scaffolding looked a bit dodgy in the first construcion photo, oh well. I hope it looks great from the inside when it's finished - not like the riverside stadium in middlesborough, but more like a large st marys in southampton, where the stands all join onto each other. Surely they will finish by the end of next season.

Doesn't look as impressive as it would have done if there had been a decent masterplan for the stadium rather than the various stands being done piecemeal.

It's pretty ironic really - it used to be every club stadium apart from Old Trafford that looked like a mish-mash of discrete units!

It looks mint here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/2004_0101utd0004.jpg

Doesn't look as impressive as it would have done if there had been a decent masterplan for the stadium rather than the various stands being done piecemeal.

It's pretty ironic really - it used to be every club stadium apart from Old Trafford that looked like a mish-mash of discrete units!

It's what it will look like inside that counts, and it won't be mish mash.

Although I agree, a masterplan would have been a better idea. But then again, how many clubs can build a 96,000 seat all seater fullly covered stadium all in one go? Different architects and constructers will be appointed over time as technology changes, economic considerations change, and contracter bidding changes.

How to deal with the railway issue still hasn't been decided after 10 years since work started on the North Stand, but there is a model, or used to be, showing the whole 96,000 stadium complete, with the South Stand an identical copy of the North without the scaffolding cantilevers.

How to deal with the railway issue still hasn't been decided after 10 years since work started on the North Stand, but there is a model, or used to be, showing the whole 96,000 stadium complete, with the South Stand an identical copy of the North without the scaffolding cantilevers.


Seen that pic. But it's without the corners. They've planned for a three tier South Stand that's for sure, which is the reason why they never added a smaller second tier on the South, and went for the corner extensions instead.

So whats going to happen for the next couple of seasons in the existing corner areas, are they going to be useable?

If it hasnt already been mentioned I'd guess that one upshot of the Glazer takeover could well be a much faster exspansion of the entire stadium. The clubs existsing plan of slow expansion was based on not taking themselves into debt like Arsenal have with their new stadium, now Glazer is heavly in debt surely he's going to want the increased revenue from a larger stadium ASAP.

There will be no/minimal loss of seating during the current work.

As for further expansion, depends how much it will cost. If it cost 30m for the West and East ends and 40m for the two corners, when considering the railway line and housing, and other difficulties, full stadium expansion I would guess would cost in the region of 100m.

Then they have to get Trafford Council on side, who will probably want further cash for public transport and infrastructure. These two new corner extensions are getting Trafford Council 1m quid for just 7,800 seats. Full South Stand with corners expansion would be nearer to an extra 19,000 seats.

I'd guess that costs could well be lower if work on both the main stand and the other two corners were undertaken at the same time though.

I think it'd cost around 50-60m. I agree with MoreorLess, it's cheaper all in one go. And we should forget the one of the main reasons why it's costing as much as it is, (the current expansion) is down to the amount of corporate facilities the new corners will contain.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Sparkynufc/oldtraffordpanoramicdirectorsbox2005.jpg

Yes i'm embarresed, will try to do better when I have more time.

To improve it, zoom out as far as you can or go to the back of your room and look at your screen.

original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Sparkynufc/oldtraffordpanoramicdirectorsbox2004.jpg

Lets see the Original pic....I might give it ago aswell

Not a bad effort.

If you shadowed the second tier corners it would look better though.

I did one last week.

Post it tommorrow.

had a go at one of the corners http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/bored.gif

http://img116.echo.cx/img116/5716/untitled29ww.jpg

Someone having a joke with Photoshop:

http://img56.echo.cx/img56/3092/manutdnewground4rp.jpg

Bastards!

That's really good unfrequented, but it's the other corner that will cause the problems.

Flip it and skew it.

No. Just use the clone tool. Mark out the areas you want to clone within, and clone away. . .

What kind of effect do the Man Utd fans here think its going to have on the ground? I'v never been there myself but I'v always imagined the tops of the renovated stands felt quite cut off with the downward sloping roof where as the new layout looks alot more open.

What kind of effect do the Man Utd fans here think its going to have on the ground? I'v never been there myself but I'v always imagined the tops of the renovated stands felt quite cut off with the downward sloping roof where as the new layout looks alot more open.
At the top of the north you feel like your watching tv from a high up camera but I dont think that will feel much different. The difference will be felt in the second tier. Instead of have a massive wall it will be just be a massive sea of United fans. Also in the two ends uptop it can get petty cold so hope the air flow changes, to make it warmer.

Its also going to make it more noisey. Atm when fans sing in the east second tier the noise stays there and has no where to travel. In the Streford end is differnet because all the fans sign from down there and the noise gets cut of by the sides of the roof but still travels because they all sing. With out the sides should make it a better atmosphere. None of the north or south even make a noise during the game. The north is full of southerns and the south full of old people.

None of the north or south even make a noise during the game. The north is full of southerns and the south full of old people.

What are you trying to say? That people from the south don't make much noise while pople from the north do?

Nothing more than myth, IMO.

The atmosphere at London clubs is at least as good as it is at northern clubs. And in terms of the Premiership, I'd say that there isn't even a shred of doubt that the best home fans are Portsmouth.

And you don't get much further south in England than that!

Yeah but then some of us in Hampshire do describe Portsmouth as a decaying northern industrial city stuck on our fair coast! ;)

What are you trying to say? That people from the south don't make much noise while pople from the north do?

Nothing more than myth, IMO.

The atmosphere at London clubs is at least as good as it is at northern clubs. And in terms of the Premiership, I'd say that there isn't even a shred of doubt that the best home fans are Portsmouth.

And you don't get much further south in England than that!
Yes all the rich/posh southerns sit the North. The boring lot.

At the top of the north you feel like your watching tv from a high up camera but I dont think that will feel much different. The difference will be felt in the second tier. Instead of have a massive wall it will be just be a massive sea of United fans. Also in the two ends uptop it can get petty cold so hope the air flow changes, to make it warmer.

Its also going to make it more noisey. Atm when fans sing in the east second tier the noise stays there and has no where to travel. In the Streford end is differnet because all the fans sign from down there and the noise gets cut of by the sides of the roof but still travels because they all sing. With out the sides should make it a better atmosphere. None of the north or south even make a noise during the game. The north is full of southerns and the south full of old people.

I've sat in the North plenty of times. And it's not full of Southerners at all. Plenty more Mancs. However, the third tier is full of day trippers and the whole stand has loads of corporates.

The South is just pathetic. Full of prawn sarnies.

And in terms of the Premiership, I'd say that there isn't even a shred of doubt that the best home fans are Portsmouth.

And you don't get much further south in England than that!

...apart from Exeter City, Torquay United, Plymouth Albion and possibly Brighton :)

Plymouth Argyle more like.

Two new renders. Shame they are so small.

http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_10463.jpg

http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_10464.jpg

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/5024/ott6wx.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Hiya Devil


Great pics. I haven't seen those before.

One thing though. All the glass just like at the new Wembley- it's so passe.
Just reminds me of the exterior of the main stand at White Hart Lane and that was built nearly 25 years ago. The new Allianz Arena demonstrates the way of the future. I love that stadium and a photo of it is on my wall.

Another attempt

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/333/ott6mk.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Good work Ed.

From what I can tell the third tier won't swoop down. But the seats will go as high as the North. But I'm sure that will restrict the view on the extension near the third tier.

Yes, that'll obscure views. I reckon that inside render was done on the cheap, wait until we get a proper one so we can garner the truth.

Suspect you're right, guv.

Shame they've only released crappy pics.

Hiya Devil

Great pics. I haven't seen those before.

Hello :wave:

They only turned up yesterday.

Those renders are shite. Will be wicked when finished though.

Yeah i hope all the stands join up to each other as smoothly as the new Emirates stadium. Don't want it lookin shite now do we? If the new corner seats go as high as the North stand, surely the East and West stands would need to be extended so the stadium is balanced?
Need more renders!

Any one have any recent pics of how far work has progressed on the two corners. thanks

Does anyone have some new pics of the works in OT?

You wana ask anything about this down in the Uk sub forum and then Manchester threads.

I am a chinese MU's supporter.

I think the second tier seats behind the goals in the Stretford and Scoreboard ends are raked at the same angle as the third tier seats in the North Stand so that when the second tier seats behind the goals curve round to meet the second tier in the North stand they end up being higher than those seats the further up the stand you go and they actually meet the seats at the bottom of the third tier.

Hence that concrete wall you can see each side of the North Stand. Only the front row of seating in the curve meets the second tier of the North Stand.

Doe any of that make sense ?

With reguards to any future devolpment of the south stand one alternative if they can't get around the rail line problem I'v not seen mentioned would be to push the seating back slightly and fill in the other two corners adding a few thousad more seats. Then behind that you could either have a wall of directors boxs or a number of shallow rows of prenium seats stacked ontop of each other. That kind of redevolpment would need far less space behind the stand and would I'd guess still bring in alot of extra revenue.

I have seen a technical drawing of the new stand. Doesnt look like I expected. ITs 3D and wirefrane so its hard to tell whats going on but basically were talking three tiers on the extension. Its a small second tier and a bigger third tier with exec boxes in the middle. Look at the small pic we have. What looks like concrete is exec boxes.
It doesnt meet the stands behind the goal exactly either. Looks like its a few metres out but not as bad as at the millenium, I hate that mismatch, just looks bad.
Anyway, there we are. When we get the UK thread back i'll post more or try and post the pic.

I have seen a technical drawing of the new stand. Doesnt look like I expected. ITs 3D and wirefrane so its hard to tell whats going on but basically were talking three tiers on the extension. Its a small second tier and a bigger third tier with exec boxes in the middle. Look at the small pic we have. What looks like concrete is exec boxes.
It doesnt meet the stands behind the goal exactly either. Looks like its a few metres out but not as bad as at the millenium, I hate that mismatch, just looks bad.
Anyway, there we are. When we get the UK thread back i'll post more or try and post the pic.


Three tiers? I was thinking a slight extension to the third tier of the North. Not sure I like the idea of it not joining up smoothly. But I guess it's better than a simple second tier plomped onto the corners.

I have seen a technical drawing of the new stand. Doesnt look like I expected. ITs 3D and wirefrane so its hard to tell whats going on but basically were talking three tiers on the extension. Its a small second tier and a bigger third tier with exec boxes in the middle. Look at the small pic we have. What looks like concrete is exec boxes.
It doesnt meet the stands behind the goal exactly either. Looks like its a few metres out but not as bad as at the millenium, I hate that mismatch, just looks bad.
Anyway, there we are. When we get the UK thread back i'll post more or try and post the pic.

I'll take your word for it about the boxes but it still looks like a wall to me separating the differing rakes of the seats. It would be strange it not having boxes so I'm sure you're right but it still looks like a wall.

I've seen the techinal drawing Gavins talking about(ta mate). Simply put, the corner tier will be split by a row of exec boxes a third of the way up. . . unlike the second tier of North Stand, where they're at the top. They can't continue the row of exec boxes at the top because they'd obscure the views of the pitch. That said, the height of the corner extension looks to be higher than the second tier North Stand(how it will work out is beyond me). Also, there is a gap in the centre of the corner extension right at the very top, this is because that area will have restricted views due to the slop in the roof. One more thing. . . I think the pillar/strut that supports the corner roof will be visible in that gap I mentioned in the corner extension.

I wouldn't take too much notice of the artist impressions tbh, as they're a bit vague.

Makes sense to me thank you for illuminating.

Ah, finally. A photograph. And it's just as glorious as I imagined it would be.

http://www.football365.com/mediastore/Story_Images/MediaWatch/sign.jpg

:rofl:
I didnt know the new corners would be named after their new owner.

:rofl:
I didnt know the new corners would be named after their new owner.

you better believe it :rofl:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kingofthebees/OTsign.jpg

Good that.

and yeah he's a fucking cunt.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Tony-Stark/Cornerextension1.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b64/Chorltonred/f70b945c.jpg



;)

Christ the sheer size of Old Trafford isn't funny 76,000 well that just says how big of a club they are really doesn't it.

I have to say that I'm disappointed with the internal designs of these new corners, if everything potsed here is accurate. Having a row of exec boxes in the middle of the tier will imo look awful. Old Trafford has always been one of the few grounds in the country to follow a fairly uniform development, throughout its various guises, and to break this aesthetic togetherness just so a few more people can watch the match behind glass seems like a really poor decision to me. (I wonder if Glazer got in early enough to influence the designs...?)

It's a far more extreme example, I know, but as mentioned before, the Millennium Stadium gives an idea of what the new corners will look like - 2 into 1 simply doesn't go (except in porn ;) ).
http://www.geocities.com/hamza_j_1999/DSCI0074.jpg

Yes, you're right. They are a bit awful(the interior plans). It's a shame really, Old Trafford has always been uniform, Archibald Leitch's original design was a bowl, and later on when Old Trafford was extended it followed a plan, which was completed with the old Stretford end was re built. The new extensions have been very short sighted. They should've had a plan, instead of this mish mash. The North, Corners, Goal Ends and South Stand will all look very different.

http://gallery.euphorics.net/uploads/united/9857611316.JPG

http://gallery.euphorics.net/uploads/united/1664806113.JPG

http://gallery.euphorics.net/uploads/united/675135111.JPG

http://gallery.euphorics.net/uploads/united/30831997AppendixA.jpg

Pics from tonights game.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/DSCF0489.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/DSCF0488.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/DSCF0486.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/Manchester%20United/DSCF0485.jpg

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=98077&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=98076&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=98075&mediatype=2
Pics from the United website taken today.

Look pretty good...

Andysimo123

Good pics well apart from them being coverd by the united badge but still good pics.

When will it be completed?

Well if I get a ticket for the game tomorrow I'll get some pics with out United badges all over them.

from october 4th

construction work at the East Stand quadrant

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=102742&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=102743&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=102744&mediatype=2

and one from the west

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=102745&mediatype=2

Inspired by the Dortmund Stadium thread where one poster has shown the development throught the years, here is the same thing for old trafford;

1926 (openend as a brand new venue in 1910-the greatest soccer stadium of it's time)
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/1926old.jpg

1964
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/oldtrafford1964.jpg

1984
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/oldtrafford1984.jpg

1994 - 45,000 all seated
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/otair.jpg

1998 - 55,000 all seated
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/oldtraffordbyaircorner.jpg

2003 - 68,000 all seated
http://www.manutdzone.com/oldtrafford/photos/oldtraffordaerialview2001.jpg

2006 - 77,000 all seated
http://www.stadiumguide.com/oldtrafford6.jpg

Wow! - It's grown from a an unsure and awkward adolescent, to a mature adult full of confidence.

I thought Old Trafford became 67,000 in 2000/2001

^Correct, but the dates shown are from when the pictures were taken.

Here's one from circa 1995

http://www.multimania.com/smeunier/Old/old4.jpg

Robbed once again from the united site.
19th October.
East Stand
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=108549&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=108548&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=108547&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=108550&mediatype=2

Is there going to be any building work done outside the stadium I've heard that the area does need a bit of a lift and same goes for the main stand.

JEEEEEEENAS! :cheers:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/ginola99/_40938062_jenasafp300.jpg

Is there going to be any building work done outside the stadium I've heard that the area does need a bit of a lift and same goes for the main stand.

The stadium is basically in an industrial wasteland other than the nearby Salford Quays (with the Lowry arts centre and the Imperial War Museum north) and the Old Trafford cricket ground. So rather than wasting money on tarting up the area, I wish they'd spend more money improving public transport access. I always drive there because public transport near the ground is totally inadequate (one tram service and one train service, both of which are too infrequent; both are packed and it'll take you up to an hour to get to the front of the queues unless you leave the game early). And Spurs think they have transport problems!

Oh, and can someone do something about the M6 while they're at it? It took me two hours to drive the 130 miles just to the north of Birmingham up the M40 and M6 Toll. Quite reasonable. But it took me three and a half hours to drive the remaining 80 miles to Old Trafford. Didn't get there until half time. Arrrggghhh! Oh well, at least I saw the better half. ;)

It just keeps on getting bigger.

It just keeps on getting bigger.

Ture I have heard United could make it 91,000 by rebuilding the main stand with a second teir over hanging the railway line. Then again I heard that Arsenal could make Emirates 80,000 by filling in the corners.

What capacity would Old Trafford be if the entire stadium had three tiers?

What capacity would Old Trafford be if the entire stadium had three tiers?

I would say 100,000 maybe but then again it will never happen.

What capacity would Old Trafford be if the entire stadium had three tiers?

Anywhere from 90-100,000 depending on where you read it. It wouldn't be impossible, despite the railway line behind the south stand. Should England host the 2018 WC I wouldn't be surprised to see OT grow even more.

The Emerites is not expandable at all from what I've read.

pics from november 9th

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117399&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117400&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117426&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117434&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117420&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=117421&mediatype=2


and a few more (http://www.manutdpics.com/page.php?page=gallery&gid=891) (pages 4/5)

Is it true that the north stand is the tallest stand in the world?

oh and is it true that man city have the tallest flood lights in the land?
and the longest/widest pitch? oh and a stand called the bell end....?
cos city are a MASSIVE club. :)

when i first went in the third tier of the north stand, i thought this is shit, you are looking down on the south stand roof, and the ends of the third tier feels closed off, this new open corner thingy should vastly improve it, hell i mite even go back up there when its finished.

'Park, Park wherever you may be,
you eat dogs in your home country,
but it could be worst, you could be scouse,
eating rats in a council house.'

No the North stand isnt the tallest in the world. Well I dont think it is. But it has the largest cantilever roof in Europe.

'Park, Park wherever you may be,
you eat dogs in your home country,
but it could be worst, you could be scouse,
eating rats in a council house.'

Thats priceless :)

Pics from todays game.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0879.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0878.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0877.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0876.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0875.jpg

On Friday I drove 350km from Hertfordshire to inspect the latest developments at Old Trafford, it is coming on and will post pictures as soon as the site will allow me to.

Mal.

16th December
West/North Stand Corner
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144332&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144331&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144330&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144329&mediatype=2
East/North Stand Corner
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144328&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144327&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144326&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=144325&mediatype=2

http://www.albiontillwedie.co.uk/photoarchive/0506/images/manchesterunited/35.jpg

http://www.albiontillwedie.co.uk/photoarchive/0506/images/manchesterunited/36.jpg

Didnt the north stand have a roadway passing under it? Now thats been blocked off by this devolpment maybe they'll stick something else there?

Didnt the north stand have a roadway passing under it? Now thats been blocked off by this devolpment maybe they'll stick something else there?
If they do that how are the fans going to get into the ground?

If they do that how are the fans going to get into the ground?

Move the turnstyles forward? I'v no idea how much space their is behind the north stand for the fans to line up though. That undercover area just seems like the kind of mugger/junky magnet everyone trys to avoid so why not put a small bar/pub or some internal facilites their instead if its not serving as a road anymore.

I dont think that would work because I dont think it would be worth spending all the money. In the south stand at half time they do use the road they shut it off and set up bars.

there is a road underneath the north and south stands and the stands behind the goals. The new cornes are designed so that there is just one supporting core. This has allowed for the road to continue inbetween the new corner core and the old stand.
The road is still there and still used for access although it is not really needed as a road because you can get to either end of the ground straight off the main road. The south stand road has been bricked over so it is more like a path although again, you can drive down it for access.
Great pics by the way. Looks almost complete. Surely it cant be more than a few days now until the old corner roof is removed and the new stand revealed. Looks like they havent put seats in yet though so i would imagine it wont look like a completed stand for maybe another month or so.

. Looks almost complete. Surely it cant be more than a few days now until the old corner roof is removed and the new stand revealed. Looks like they havent put seats in yet though so i would imagine it wont look like a completed stand for maybe another month or so.


They'll probably put the roof on next. As for the corner, only the top few rows have been concreted.

Actually, I'm wrong. I fair bit has been done.

I'm certainly impressed.

I was in the ground on boxing day and had a mint view of the new stand but I forgot my camera. The roof is going on because I could see alot of metal beams going cross the new white structure.

I think the concrete has gone on to all rows bar the ones at the very front. There will be an overhang I assume of the old stand for consistancy with the rest of the ground. I reckon that will go on when the old roof goes in the same week. When do united have a break in home fixtures? They will prob do it then so they dont lose any seats when the roof and the old side sections go. Cant see that being safe for fans so they'll need to get it out and the concrete in inbetween home games.

http://www.unitedlinks.co.uk/neq3.jpg

Man Utd have no home games between new years eve vs Bolton and the 22nd of jan next year.

the corners will be ready for the match against birmingham on the 25th of march, according to bbc radio five live.

It's hard to believe that 75,000 will be able to fit into Old Trafford, when all this expansion work it done. The atmosphere will be electric. Especially on the big games. It seems to take a match against Chelsea to get the crowd off their seats at Old Trafford these days. The crowd were brilliant during that game.

Pics from todays game from Stretford end.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0891.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0892.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0893.jpg

9th January 2006
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157685&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157684&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157683&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157682&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157681&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157656&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157655&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157655&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157654&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157653&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157651&mediatype=2
http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=157650&mediatype=2

this kind of view is just going to look so much better:
http://users.wfu.edu/valeje4/Old%20Trafford.JPG

Yes, I love filled corners in Stadiums.

I hope they one day get round to doing the main stand. Then it will be complete with a min capacity of 85000.

New special livery for your team's offical airline that doesn't even fly outside of SE Asia

http://images.airliners.net/photos/photos/1/3/9/988931.jpg

Look there's a horse face on the back
http://images.airliners.net/photos/photos/2/3/9/988932.jpg

http://www.irancartoon.com/LI%20WENJIE/van-nistelrooy.jpg

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/gallery/2004/05/19/gallery11.jpg

Lovely stadium. Shame about the ghastly landowner however.

lets face it a stadium like this is one thing chelsea cant buy they havent got enough fans to fill it!

lets face it a stadium like this is one thing chelsea cant buy they havent got enough fans to fill it!

I think Chelsea can do a lot better than this but yes they can't fill something like this to save their lives........well at the moment.

I think Chelsea can do a lot better than this but yes they can't fill something like this to save their lives........well at the moment.
"well at the moment."
Come on Chelsea will never have enough fans to fill a 68,000 or 75,000 seater ground week in week out. Arsenal, Liverpool and United are the only teams in the English league that could fill a large ground of over 60,000 each week. Even if Chelsea win the league 10 times in a row they wont have more fans than United, Arsenal or Liverpool.

"well at the moment."
Come on Chelsea will never have enough fans to fill a 68,000 or 75,000 seater ground week in week out. Arsenal, Liverpool and United are the only teams in the English league that could fill a large ground of over 60,000 each week...

and newcastle. 52,000 every week at st james' park. with a bit of success under their belts god knows how many they could average, stadium permitting.

and newcastle. 52,000 every week at st james' park. with a bit of success under their belts god knows how many they could average, stadium permitting.
True Newscastle have loyal fans but they never have much luck.

"well at the moment."
Come on Chelsea will never have enough fans to fill a 68,000 or 75,000 seater ground week in week out. Arsenal, Liverpool and United are the only teams in the English league that could fill a large ground of over 60,000 each week. Even if Chelsea win the league 10 times in a row they wont have more fans than United, Arsenal or Liverpool.

Liverpool have never had huge crowds or even big crowds, their record attendance is only 61,905 with a highest league attendance being 58,757 a couple of season ago when things were not going so smoothly they had a crowd of less than 30,000 for a home game against Portsmouth.

Liverpool have never had huge crowds or even big crowds, their record attendance is only 61,905 with a highest league attendance being 58,757 a couple of season ago when things were not going so smoothly they had a crowd of less than 30,000 for a home game against Portsmouth.

You are taking the piss, right?

"well at the moment."
Come on Chelsea will never have enough fans to fill a 68,000 or 75,000 seater ground week in week out. Arsenal, Liverpool and United are the only teams in the English league that could fill a large ground of over 60,000 each week. Even if Chelsea win the league 10 times in a row they wont have more fans than United, Arsenal or Liverpool.

There are another two clubs in this country that could fill 60,000 in games against the likes of Le Arse, Man Utd, Liverpool and that is of course Newcastle and Tottenham but they would at max be getting 55,000 on average. Sp at the moment Le Arse, MAN U and Liver are the only ones that could get 60,000 or more on avergae. In my opinion Chelsea just have fans that used to support Arse and United ya know fans that go from team to team but what I was saying with Chelsea is give it about 15 years and they will fill 60,000 for all we know it could be less than that but If that Roman Bitch stays for a very long time then they will just keep fvcking growing.

Can't see Liverpool ever averaging 60000. Famous club with an amazing European history, but they would still average about 50-55000. I've been to 2 Liverpool home games in the last 3 years and both times it was very easy to get a ticket. They have never really had what I would class as a 'massive' support. Arsenal, after a few years at their new stadium will come down to about 55000. Chelsea would max at about 50000, same for Spurs.

Can't see Liverpool ever averaging 60000. Famous club with an amazing European history, but they would still average about 50-55000. I've been to 2 Liverpool home games in the last 3 years and both times it was very easy to get a ticket. They have never really had what I would class as a 'massive' support. Arsenal, after a few years at their new stadium will come down to about 55000. Chelsea would max at about 50000, same for Spurs.

Piss take the second.

If it's that easy why do 10,000 people pay £40 a year just for the honour of entering a ballot for tickets to league games?

Put Man United and Liverpool in a 100,000 capacity stadium and charge the prices for tickets and the averages wouldn't be a too far apart, United edging it (as history shows). Add the rest of england to that and there'd be a big difference. Rangers & Celtic could get the numbers but would the fans pay Premiership entry costs when the games are all televised anyway?

Man United have been master planning stadium development since they moved in to Old Trafford, a rare thing in European football and now they're reaping the rewards.

Liverpools record attendance is 61905. This is almost half of Rangers record attendance of 118567. If Liverpool could of got crowds like 118567 then they would of built a stadium to accommodate them. Rangers now have a 50444 stadium as whilst playing in the SPL as this is not far off the max we can average. About 60000 would be the max Rangers could average in the SPL and the stadium will eventually be upgraded to this. If Rangers got in the Premiership (which they won't), then they would build a HUGE stadium.

Liverpools record of 61905 shows that they have never had a huge support. No doubt you will say this is because of the stadium, but stadiums are built according to the size of the clubs support. If Liverpool could of got 100000 then they would of built a 100000 stadium back in the 30's/40's/50's/60's.

As I said, I had no problem getting tickets for the 2 Liverpool games I went to, and there was plenty of empty seats. Your club has an amazing history, but not when it comes to crowds!!

I should also add that the lowest price for a Rangers ticket is higher that the lowest price for a ticket for Man United, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Charlton Athletic, Newcastle United, Sunderland and Wigan. Every Rangers and celtic game is televised through a number of stations - Setanta, STV (Scottish ITV) and Rangers/Celtic TV.

The cheapest price for a ticket for our upcoming game against Villarreal is £39.

Record attendances say nothing about a club´s potential and stadiums arent build just according to whats needed. Many have grown from being small grounds in the early days of football and then having growth stopped by difficult surroundings.
Rangers have a huge record attendance because their stadium used to have a cycling tack or something around it which means poor views but huge capacities.

I think clubs like Blackburn, Bolton and Charlton have all had record crowds well beyond Liverpool. Are they then bigger clubs?

As for this about Liverpool´s crowd potential. I just think its a pointless discussion to have without including ticket prices. Its not a case of 50 or 60,000 that will pay anything and everyone else nothing.

My understanding is that Liverpool do leave a few more tickets unsold for some matches compared to Arsenal, Tottenham and some others, but they still do have a season ticket waiting list(I think?) and thats what matters.
I am sure they will get that 58-59,000 average in a 60,000 stadium if prices remain reasonably unchanged.

They probably cant afford a stadium as expensive as Arsenal, though, as they will struggle to sell thousands of £ 5,000 club-seat season tickets

Liverpools record attendance is 61905. This is almost half of Rangers record attendance of 118567. If Liverpool could of got crowds like 118567 then they would of built a stadium to accommodate them. Rangers now have a 50444 stadium as whilst playing in the SPL as this is not far off the max we can average. About 60000 would be the max Rangers could average in the SPL and the stadium will eventually be upgraded to this. If Rangers got in the Premiership (which they won't), then they would build a HUGE stadium.

Liverpools record of 61905 shows that they have never had a huge support. No doubt you will say this is because of the stadium, but stadiums are built according to the size of the clubs support. If Liverpool could of got 100000 then they would of built a 100000 stadium back in the 30's/40's/50's/60's.

As I said, I had no problem getting tickets for the 2 Liverpool games I went to, and there was plenty of empty seats. Your club has an amazing history, but not when it comes to crowds!!

I should also add that the lowest price for a Rangers ticket is higher that the lowest price for a ticket for Man United, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Charlton Athletic, Newcastle United, Sunderland and Wigan. Every Rangers and celtic game is televised through a number of stations - Setanta, STV (Scottish ITV) and Rangers/Celtic TV.

The cheapest price for a ticket for our upcoming game against Villarreal is £39.
There are afew reasons why Liverpool dont have a 100,000 seater ground. In the 1930s there were lots of 60,000/70,000+ grounds but they werent seated you had to stand. It was the same untill the late 80s and 90s when they had to make them all seater grounds which ment ground could only hold about 30,000 people max. When Liverpool were at their best in the 70s and 80s they didnt have to change the ground to seating and so they didnt bother spending money to make the ground bigger. Then in the 90s things changed Liverpool werent the top team anymore and they didnt have the money to build the ground up.

Bubomb, do you know of any website with a list of Rangers/Celtic's average crowds?

I wonder how the trend has followed/led the big English clubs. I presume they were a fair bit larger in the very early days (pre-WWI)

My understanding is that Liverpool do leave a few more tickets unsold for some matches compared to Arsenal, Tottenham and some others, but they still do have a season ticket waiting list(I think?) and thats what matters.
I am sure they will get that 58-59,000 average in a 60,000 stadium if prices remain reasonably unchanged.

Indeed, I think the key is how large your latent fanbase is. Having a bit of sucess will encourage more of them to go to games but it needs a period of really sustained sucess in order to increase it alot. I think people underestimate fans loyality aswell, even if they started supporting a club in there childhood because it was sucessful many will still goto games even if that sucess drys up, hence why you still have Liverpool fans in their late 20's to early 40's scatters all over England.

Record attendances say nothing about a club´s potential and stadiums arent build just according to whats needed. Many have grown from being small grounds in the early days of football and then having growth stopped by difficult surroundings.
Rangers have a huge record attendance because their stadium used to have a cycling tack or something around it which means poor views but huge capacities.

I think clubs like Blackburn, Bolton and Charlton have all had record crowds well beyond Liverpool. Are they then bigger clubs?

As for this about Liverpool´s crowd potential. I just think its a pointless discussion to have without including ticket prices. Its not a case of 50 or 60,000 that will pay anything and everyone else nothing.

My understanding is that Liverpool do leave a few more tickets unsold for some matches compared to Arsenal, Tottenham and some others, but they still do have a season ticket waiting list(I think?) and thats what matters.
I am sure they will get that 58-59,000 average in a 60,000 stadium if prices remain reasonably unchanged.

They probably cant afford a stadium as expensive as Arsenal, though, as they will struggle to sell thousands of £ 5,000 club-seat season tickets


All the massive old grounds in the UK had some kind of small track separating the pitch from the stand. It was the way they were built back then. The huge terraces behind the goals were built on top of huge earth deposits and were curved as to increase the capacity. Only after the 60's were stands built with the intention of having the crowd as close to the action. This of course means the capacities were reduced. Back in the 20's/30's it was impossible to have a 100000+ stadium without having the track or curved terrace behind each goal. Archibald Leitch was the architect behind most big UK stadiums back then.

There simply isn't the demand for Liverpool to average 60000. Of course they would get 60000 for some games, but for other games they would get 46000. Some cup games would see a half empty stadium!!

Old Ibrox -

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/nortynorty/jal283.jpg

http://www.playedinbritain.co.uk/Resources/ibroxterrace.jpeg

http://rangersmedia.teardrop.ca/images/group1/ib16.jpg

http://rangersmedia.teardrop.ca/images/group1/ib14.jpg

http://rangersmedia.teardrop.ca/images/group1/ib4.jpg

http://rangersmedia.teardrop.ca/images/group1/ib9.jpg

Old Hampden -

http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/images/hampden%20park/Hampden%203.gif

http://www.scotiafootball.com/images/old-hampden.jpg

http://www.stadiumguide.com/hampdenold2.jpg

http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/images/hampden%20park/d.jpg

Gaza -

http://www.homesoffootball.co.uk/2403_RANGERS.JPG

Hately -

http://www.homesoffootball.co.uk/1383_RANGERS.JPG

Bubomb, do you know of any website with a list of Rangers/Celtic's average crowds?

I wonder how the trend has followed/led the big English clubs. I presume they were a fair bit larger in the very early days (pre-WWI)

In the last 100+ years, celtic have only ever had higher averages than Rangers 7 times. That's 7 out of 100+ years. The 7 higher averages are obviously because their stadium holds more. Even when Rangers finished 5th in 1985 and celtic won the league, Rangers still had a higher average. That season Rangers averaged just under 26000 and celtic averaged just over 24000. If you look at the away games featuring Rangers and celtic this season, you will see every club who plays Rangers has a higher attendance compared to when they play celtic. This year Rangers stadium is 97.4% full despite being 4th in the league. Celtics stadium is 95.8% full and they are 17 points ahead of Rangers. In 93/94, when celtic finished 4th, they averaged 22759. The following year they also finished 4th and averaged 24601 -

http://www.soccer-stats.com/divisions/attendances.asp?divno=5&asid=93

http://stats.football365.com/dom/SCO/teams/Rangers.html

http://stats.football365.com/dom/SCO/teams/Celtic.html

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/archive/avesco.htm

http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/scot86.html

http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/scot94.html

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/avesco.htm

Crowds were were far higher pre-WW2 but after WW2 Britain was on it's knees and the most heavily affected city was Glasgow. Glasgow was built on heavy industry and the death of ship building and heavy industry meant the death of Glasgow. By the time the 70's arrived you had mass unemployment, gangs and crime which meant that people could no longer could afford to go to football and no longer had the will either. By the early 80's Scottish crowds were at their all time lowest. Slowly the city has recovered and with it football crowds. This year will see the highest average Scottish crowds for 40 years!!

Indeed, I think the key is how large your latent fanbase is. Having a bit of sucess will encourage more of them to go to games but it needs a period of really sustained sucess in order to increase it alot. I think people underestimate fans loyality aswell, even if they started supporting a club in there childhood because it was sucessful many will still goto games even if that sucess drys up, hence why you still have Liverpool fans in their late 20's to early 40's scatters all over England.
I've heard it is nowt to do with the fans that there are sometimes seats empty. Its the club, I heard fans on the radio complaining that when people phone the club up to say they cant go and return the ticket, that they dont always sell the spear tickets on.

You are taking the piss, right?

Nope, but I did get that Pompey game wrong. The attendance was 34,663 on 17-03-2004. Still that's over 10,000 empty seats at a league game compare that to 44,983 who were there last saturday.

Liverpools demand already surpasses 55,000 on average and that's from written applications alone. Walk up and telephone enquiries are unmeasured. Liverpool FC themselves have investigated the demand for tickets and the decision to develop a 60,000 seat stadium is based on economics rather than pure demand. Rick Parry is quoted, using the data they amassed, as saying they'd be confident at shifting 85/90,000 tickets a game however the price per ticket/cost per seat to build/finance etc doesn't stack up.

As for the Pompey game, that was midweek at a time when the fans were borderline on open revolt against the management of the club (when Man United hit a similar brick wall they got 23,000 tickets sold and only 17,000 'turnstile clicks') and you'd still have struggled to buy a match day ticket, most of the emptys were in season ticket areas. Parry was grilled over this as well but his attitude was that he didn't really care since barring Pompeys failiure to sell their allocation the club still sold over 40,000 tickets.

As I stated earlier, Man Uniteds greatest success with Old Trafford is their attitude to development. Liverpool FC redeveloped Anfield piecemeal in the 60's and 70's and again in the 90's. Now they (like Arsenal) plan to develop a new stadium with a fixed capacity and absolutely NO scope for expansion. Man United have always had an open mind to the future in this regard, developing stadium masterplans over, roughly, 20 years cycles which makes expansion and modernisation affordable, impacts less on capital expenditure during an economic cycle and causes the least disruption. Arsenal are taking a massive gamble with Ashburton Grove, IF Liverpool continue with their plans for Stanley Park the stakes will be high.

Liverpools demand already surpasses 55,000 on average and that's from written applications alone. Walk up and telephone enquiries are unmeasured. Liverpool FC themselves have investigated the demand for tickets and the decision to develop a 60,000 seat stadium is based on economics rather than pure demand. Rick Parry is quoted, using the data they amassed, as saying they'd be confident at shifting 85/90,000 tickets a game however the price per ticket/cost per seat to build/finance etc doesn't stack up.

As for the Pompey game, that was midweek at a time when the fans were borderline on open revolt against the management of the club (when Man United hit a similar brick wall they got 23,000 tickets sold and only 17,000 'turnstile clicks') and you'd still have struggled to buy a match day ticket, most of the emptys were in season ticket areas. Parry was grilled over this as well but his attitude was that he didn't really care since barring Pompeys failiure to sell their allocation the club still sold over 40,000 tickets.

As I stated earlier, Man Uniteds greatest success with Old Trafford is their attitude to development. Liverpool FC redeveloped Anfield piecemeal in the 60's and 70's and again in the 90's. Now they (like Arsenal) plan to develop a new stadium with a fixed capacity and absolutely NO scope for expansion. Man United have always had an open mind to the future in this regard, developing stadium masterplans over, roughly, 20 years cycles which makes expansion and modernisation affordable, impacts less on capital expenditure during an economic cycle and causes the least disruption. Arsenal are taking a massive gamble with Ashburton Grove, IF Liverpool continue with their plans for Stanley Park the stakes will be high.

Nonsense. Liverpool couldn't average 90000 even if the tickets were free!! Go to 90% of Liverpool home games and you will get a ticket with ease.

From tonights game against Blackburn. Looking down from the east stand towards the new corner and Stretford end.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0912.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0911.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0910.jpg

Wow, you can see...nothing.


I remember they took those corner bits down...and they have since put them back up hiding the development again.

I guess we will just have to wait till they come down, which I suspect wont happen untill the project is completed.

Wow, you can see...nothing.


I remember they took those corner bits down...and they have since put them back up hiding the development again.

I guess we will just have to wait till they come down, which I suspect wont happen untill the project is completed.

Shit!

I've just noticed they have moved the scoreboards.

You can see in this image they used to be on the corners bits.

http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/u32/iz/large/20689831.photo6Copy.jpg

The roof is just tarpaulin or some shite like that. The only structure there are the 2 walls that meet by the roof. They'll probably come down once the roof support is complete, then they can work on properly integrating the corners to the North/East/West stands.

Nonsense. Liverpool couldn't average 90000 even if the tickets were free!! Go to 90% of Liverpool home games and you will get a ticket with ease.

Yeah mate sorry ? id like to know what games you could of got a ticket for this season! ticket demand was already over the 55k mark in past seasons but owing to the champions league success,and a new blend of attractive attacking football demand has skyrocketed!
I couldnt get a ticket at face value for any game and i tried for Sunderland Spurs West Ham Chelsea Man Utd and Wigan.Thats 6 games bud so i dont know where your getting 90% from smart ass!

Yeah mate sorry ? id like to know what games you could of got a ticket for this season! ticket demand was already over the 55k mark in past seasons but owing to the champions league success,and a new blend of attractive attacking football demand has skyrocketed!
I couldnt get a ticket at face value for any game and i tried for Sunderland Spurs West Ham Chelsea Man Utd and Wigan.Thats 6 games bud so i dont know where your getting 90% from smart ass!


You didn't try very hard. Most your homes games don't sell out -

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Liverpool.html


So we have Liverpool averaging 90000, Spurs v Arsenal getting a quarter of a million.....what next? Shrewsbury Town break the 50000 barrier?

You've got to love these fanboys. They talk so much nonsense, but it's kind of 'cute', as the actually believe what they are saying. God bless them!!


I have a special prize for whoever can come up with the next ridiculous claim!!

^ Soton win a string of games :D

You didn't try very hard. Most your homes games don't sell out -

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Liverpool.html


So we have Liverpool averaging 90000, Spurs v Arsenal getting a quarter of a million.....what next? Shrewsbury Town break the 50000 barrier?

You've got to love these fanboys. They talk so much nonsense, but it's kind of 'cute', as the actually believe what they are saying. God bless them!!


I have a special prize for whoever can come up with the next ridiculous claim!!


Actaul stats below taken from the same website: ( http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html ) ....... so that readers can judge for themselves from actual premiership attendance stats whether there is scope for certain teams (Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal or whoever else) to be able to entertain the idea of larger attendances.

It seems to me many premership teams have sell out crowds (or have done so for this season so far) so would most probably be capable of larger crowds (even without lowering ticket prices or in some cases even without recent cup or league success - eg Charlton 98.6% attendance). Very rarely is a game 100% attended - this does not mean the game was not a sell out!!! (i.e 100% tickets sold or atleaset 100% of the home tickets are sold) ...its simply that some of the away fans do not/are not able to turn up or some season ticket holders or match day ticket holders do not/cannot turn up for whatever reason even though tickets have been paid for - the reason why Man U, liverpool, Chelsea etc average 97%,98%,99% etc (i.e. close to 100%) even though those games are offically sell outs.

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html

Barclays Premiership
2005-2006 Season Domestic Stats to 25-Jan-06 inclusive

Attendance Table

Team Pld Total Highest Average Capacity Pct
1 Newcastle United (14) 10 521117 52327 52112 52218 99.7%
2 Tottenham Hotspur (4) 12 432970 36247 36081 36236 99.5%
3 Manchester United (2) 11 746270 67972 67843 68174 99.5%
4 Arsenal (5) 11 419611 38347 38146 38500 99.0%
5 Charlton Athletic (11) 11 287619 27111 26147 26500 98.6%
6 Chelsea (1) 12 501094 42313 41758 42420 98.4%
7 Liverpool (3) 11 488673 44983 44425 45362 97.9%
8 Portsmouth (19) 11 217261 20220 19751 20200 97.7%
9 West Ham United (9) 11 366487 34836 33317 35647 93.4%
10 Fulham (13) 11 223907 22480 20355 22000 92.5%
11 Bolton Wanderers (7) 10 257944 29504 25794 27879 92.5%
12 Birmingham City (18) 11 303202 29312 27564 30009 91.8%
13 West Bromwich Albion (16) 12 305190 27510 25433 28003 90.8%
14 Manchester City (10) 12 522606 47192 43551 48000 90.7%
15 Everton (12) 11 400843 40158 36440 40260 90.5%
16 Wigan Athletic (6) 12 245398 25017 20450 25000 81.8%
17 Middlesbrough (17) 12 340267 31908 28356 35049 80.9%
18 Aston Villa (15) 11 375920 42551 34175 42584 80.2%
19 Sunderland (20) 12 404757 39707 33730 48300 69.8%
20 Blackburn Rovers (8) 10 196941 22375 19694 31367 62.7%



Average Attendance Rankings
Team Pld Total Highest Average Capacity Pct
1 Manchester United (2) 11 746270 67972 67843 68174 99.5%
2 Newcastle United (14) 10 521117 52327 52112 52218 99.7%
3 Liverpool (3) 11 488673 44983 44425 45362 97.9%
4 Manchester City (10) 12 522606 47192 43551 48000 90.7%
5 Chelsea (1) 12 501094 42313 41758 42420 98.4%
6 Arsenal (5) 11 419611 38347 38146 38500 99.0%
7 Everton (12) 11 400843 40158 36440 40260 90.5%
8 Tottenham Hotspur (4) 12 432970 36247 36081 36236 99.5%
9 Aston Villa (15) 11 375920 42551 34175 42584 80.2%
10 Sunderland (20) 12 404757 39707 33730 48300 69.8%
11 West Ham United (9) 11 366487 34836 33317 35647 93.4%
12 Middlesbrough (17) 12 340267 31908 28356 35049 80.9%
13 Birmingham City (18) 11 303202 29312 27564 30009 91.8%
14 Charlton Athletic (11) 11 287619 27111 26147 26500 98.6%
15 Bolton Wanderers (7) 10 257944 29504 25794 27879 92.5%
16 West Bromwich Albion (16) 12 305190 27510 25433 28003 90.8%
17 Wigan Athletic (6) 12 245398 25017 20450 25000 81.8%
18 Fulham (13) 11 223907 22480 20355 22000 92.5%
19 Portsmouth (19) 11 217261 20220 19751 20200 97.7%
20 Blackburn Rovers (8) 10 196941 22375 19694 31367 62.7%

No, most games do not sell out. Most clubs give crowd figures as the number of tickets sold. So even if only 6 people turned up, the attendance would still be 43453 etc. Anybody who thinks Liverpool could average 90000 is either a Liverpool fan or a bit simple!!

You didn't try very hard. Most your homes games don't sell out -

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Liverpool.html


So we have Liverpool averaging 90000, Spurs v Arsenal getting a quarter of a million.....what next? Shrewsbury Town break the 50000 barrier?

You've got to love these fanboys. They talk so much nonsense, but it's kind of 'cute', as the actually believe what they are saying. God bless them!!


I have a special prize for whoever can come up with the next ridiculous claim!!
Hows this.... Rangers are gonna win the champions league

Hows this.... Rangers are gonna win the champions league

That is pretty ridiculous, but doesn't count as nobody on the board seriously believes Rangers might win the Champions League. To win the prize, you have to come up with a true fanboy statement, one you actually believe. So far, Liverpool averaging 90000 is at top spot. In second place is the Spurs fan who claimed the North London derby could get a crowd of a quarter of a million. That's a cracker, but not quite as funny as the Liverpool fans claim!!

[QUOTE=bubomb]You didn't try very hard. Most your homes games don't sell out -

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Liverpool.html

QUOTE]

I looked at the link but I'm not sure what you mean when you say most home games don't sell out. Anfields capacity is 45 000, and every home match on that stat records attendances that only once fall below 44 000 (43 510, Middlesborough)

OK so if its not 45 000 its not a sell out in pedantic terms, therefore anything below give or take 500 seats forbids anyone to extrapolate on whether Liverpool could regularly sustain a larger capacity in a larger stadium precisely because they do not sell out in 'official terms'

You might be right, but I'm sure those 500 or so unsold seats are down to some administrative factor, otherwise wouldn't they be selling them on the door? Highbury is always short of its full capacity by sometimes upto 900 or so seats and yet these seats are never issued on match day, and its not because they simply couldn't fill them; there are still 20 000+ in waiting to purchase tickets through the official channels on every home game (meaning; you get charged £30 just to get on a secondary waiting list)

The point is that just because it falls short by a negligable amount on matchday, you'd need to find out if that figure is comprehensive; or, there aren't another 20 000 in waiting; granted, 90 000 is probably overreaching oneself there

I get what you are saying and I agree, but with Liverpool it seems to me that about 500-1000 seats are not getting sold for most games as the attendances vary by up to a 1000 (sometimes more), whereas with Arsenal the crowd is nearly always the exact same - a bit below capacity due to segregation, but a very consistent attendance figure around the 38200 mark. The regular fluctuations of 500-1000 in Liverpools attendances suggests to me that all the tickets are not being sold. The other point is that I went to 2 games and got tickets very easily at the first time of asking. Loads of spares and empty seats in the stadium.

I get what you are saying and I agree, but with Liverpool it seems to me that about 500-1000 seats are not getting sold for most games as the attendances vary by up to a 1000 (sometimes more), whereas with Arsenal the crowd is nearly always the exact same - a bit below capacity due to segregation, but a very consistent attendance figure around the 38200 mark. The regular fluctuations of 500-1000 in Liverpools attendances suggests to me that all the tickets are not being sold. The other point is that I went to 2 games and got tickets very easily at the first time of asking. Loads of spares and empty seats in the stadium.

That could well depend on how the segregation handled(their highest attednance is still 400 below capacity) or even how many tickets they choose to give to away fans. Also remeber that as capacity increases so does the number of season tickets on offer thus boosting the attendance of less important games.

I'v always assumed that modern attendace figures actually show crowd numbers and not ticket sales, the former is certainly counted these days and teams concistantly having a few hundred empty seats certainly seems to point to it being the case.

That could well depend on how the segregation handled(their highest attednance is still 400 below capacity) or even how many tickets they choose to give to away fans. Also remeber that as capacity increases so does the number of season tickets on offer thus boosting the attendance of less important games.

I'v always assumed that modern attendace figures actually show crowd numbers and not ticket sales, the former is certainly counted these days and teams concistantly having a few hundred empty seats certainly seems to point to it being the case.


True, but Man United, Spurs and Arsenal don't get this 1000 fluctuation. Man United, Spurs and Arsenals crowds are very consistent, normally no more than 200 less from their highest gate of the season. A lot of Liverpool games are clearly not selling out even taking away allocations and segregation into account. If they were selling out, then you would have the same situation as you do with Arsenal, Spurs and Man United with crowds no more than - 200 from their highest gate that season.

True, but Man United, Spurs and Arsenal don't get this 1000 fluctuation. Man United, Spurs and Arsenals crowds are very consistent, normally no more than 200 less from their highest gate of the season. A lot of Liverpool games are clearly not selling out even taking away allocations and segregation into account. If they were selling out, then you would have the same situation as you do with Arsenal, Spurs and Man United with crowds no more than - 200 from their highest gate that season.


You can't really look too much into those figures. For example. . .The United/Liverpool game is the biggest in England, and for United perhaps edges the derby. Now, the game itself was a sell out, but the attendance was 67,884, a hundred below our highest, which I think was against WBA. Each game has a different segregation policy. So, you'll never get a United match with a 68,000 attendance . . . well, that's is untill next season, when the stadium has been increased, (actually it's this season when the corners are opended). As for Liverpool, their attendances have increased from last season by a few percent, I guess the EC win has factored into this. It's says 99 percent, and a 1000 below their capacity. But I wonder how many seats are available NOT how many seats there are in the stadium.

Bah....not this thread aswell.


If I was a mod of the sports arenas section...I'd give you all a good talking to.

26th January 2006
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Looking down towards the East stand.
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Fulham with hardly any fans. Worse support away support I have seen at Old Trafford.
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Big ass North Stand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0936.jpg
New North-East Corner.
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Looking through the glass at the new stand. You cant really see on here but the roof is half done. I would expect the seats to be going in very soon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0938.jpg

Different seat today, Andy?

hopefully it will be easier to get a ticket now, dont like the look of the interior from the render however, neither do I like the way the steel is on top of the extensions, ah well. We'd better win at Cardiff

Different seat today, Andy?
Yep most games am in the East Stand at the other end but today I got a ticket for Stretford End.

matherto
Its not hard to get tickets if you try to get them. eg becoming an One United member i've applied for every game and got a ticket apart from the Liverpool game which I went to any way and got a ticket of a mate.

I have seen one image from inside Old Trafford of what the finished quadrants will look like. Has anyone seen any others, or is there architects drawings which could be posted?

:?

I have seen one image from inside Old Trafford of what the finished quadrants will look like. Has anyone seen any others, or is there architects drawings which could be posted?

:?

theres a video with a 3d render of the whole project linked to this page http://www.manutd.com/venue/custom.sps?itype=6988 you will have to sign up as an e-member though (free)

some screenshots from it;

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7224/west0ga9id.jpg http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/77/east8xu2iu.jpg

^ nice one. i hadn't seen that before.

If you look at the stands out side the ground. It looks like the new stands are on level with the two end stands. I cant tell if it links up with the North stand tier 2 though. I think we are just going to have to wait and see want it looks like. I dont think it will look to bad from the instead. Them 3d images arnt that good.

Very hard to makeout whats going on in that pic, it looks level with both the 2nd tier of the north stand and the end stands dispite both of them having different gradients.