I started a similar thread on SSP, but that forum seems to have a small Tampa representation. So, I'd like to know what you guys think.

Are the D-Rays safe in Tampa Bay? They seem to be facing an impossible plight, being in the same conferences as the Yankees and Red Sox. Additionally, the Tropicana is typically regarded as being among the worst baseball stadiums in the bigs. I've also heard attendance is usually low and the team's payroll is among the league's lowest. Is it likely that Tampa will build a new baseball stadium? Or, dare I say it, might the D-Rays leave town?

Add this to Miami's current stadium struggle, and MLB is hurting in Florida.

Tropicana is one of the worst stadiums to those who have NEVER been there...

Sometimes it's ridiculous how the punduits opinions carry over to the fans. "Tropicana Field must suck because..."

Here's a question -- have YOU been there? And are you posting this at all because you want Raleigh to have a ML team?

Tropicana is one of the worst stadiums to those who have NEVER been there...

Sometimes it's ridiculous how the punduits opinions carry over to the fans. "Tropicana Field must suck because..."

Here's a question -- have YOU been there? And are you posting this at all because you want Raleigh to have a ML team?
In all honesty I think that the D-Rays are the most underappreciated asset in town. There are a bunch of great bars around the ballpark (Fergs), the tickets are cheap, you can sit just about anywhere, and you get to see the best teams in baseball. They really are only one or 2 players away from being a competetive team. Sure it would be nice if it was on the bay, like Al Lang, but the AC is nice as well on a hot summer day.

I'm going to the Yankees game on Wednesday... I'll tell you how it goes.

While I don't really like domes, for those of us who have been to D-Rays games during July and August its such a relief to be inside. It may be ugly, but I'll take 75 degrees inside over 95 in the sun.

I watched the Devil Rays / Boston game today and learned a lot about the trop. b.t.w. the Rays won 5 - 4 and they looked like a real professional team. Some points to consider:

Their record is already much better than any of their previous years.

Attendance compared to last year during the first 10 home games is up 60%. That's quite impressive at any level.

Sunday's attendance was just shy of 27,000 fans! At the same time last year, they would be lucky to have 10,000 show up at the ballfield.

As for the "moving" speculation, the new ownership has no intention of moving the team. Their philosophy is if you give the fans a reason to show up, they will come!

Think about it -- considering the current injury list, the Devil Rays are doing a great job right now. I think that they will give the league a run for their money this year.

... but then again I'm a believer!

kind of reminds me of the Lightning -- they didn't start off very strong, but they've proven themselves through the years and have earned the respect they hold in the league.

Hang in there fans!!! :)

Let me first say that I hope the Rays have a great year, break attendance records, improve their PR in the community, and earn some new respect around the league.

That said, I went to my first Rays game last year at the Trop, and it was one of the most sterile, unexciting games I'd ever attended. I've only been to about five or six different MLB stadiums, but the Trop was definitely the worst in terms of atmosphere.

Of course, I don't like domes for either football (Falcons games? Blach!) or baseball, so I'm sure that affects my opinion.

Now, I hope they can turn things around this year, and the new ownership seems to be making strides. I wish them the best, and don't see them moving any time soon.

The D-rays play in St. Pete and the Trop was designed and built in the late 80's.

Positives: Money has been spent to try and bring it into the 21st century ie: adding restaraunts and concessions inside the dome. Air Conditioning is a must for Florida in the summer so an open air stadium is out of the question. St. Pete has a great downtown and the Rays are a huge positive for the whole Tampa Bay area.

Negatives: From the outside it is a real eyesore - it adds nothing positive the the skyline unless you think a giant "collapsing water/fuel tank" is attractive. The Trop is not a good baseball stadium - from a design point is was built for baseball only so there is no excuse for why it has obstructed view seating and catwalks that get hit with flyballs. Many people think it was built as quickly and cheaply as possible to keep Tampa from getting a team. I also think it should have been placed closer to downtown - flip the stadium and parking.

The Trop is nothing like the new parks that have been built. I was just in Houston and they have a beautiful stadium with a retractable roof. I have been to many Rays games and stadiums around the country and in my opinion the Trop ranks in the bottom of all parks. I do not see St. Pete or Tampa building a new stadium so I would guess the Rays will eventually leave the area.

Tropicana is one of the worst stadiums to those who have NEVER been there...

Sometimes it's ridiculous how the punduits opinions carry over to the fans. "Tropicana Field must suck because..."

Here's a question -- have YOU been there? And are you posting this at all because you want Raleigh to have a ML team?


John F, I see your point. But, no, I did not post this because I want Raleigh to have a ML team. Although, I do think either Raleigh or Charlotte needs one. Actually, my wife and I are seriously considering relocating to Tampa. Being a baseball fan, I was hoping to hear some positive opinions on the D-Rays continuing viability in the Tampa Bay area so I can look forward to having a stable ML team nearby.

It seems that even D-Ray fans have a low opinion of the stadium. That's bad. But, it's good to hear that the ownership is positive about the future. I genuinely hope the team finds great success and longevity in Tampa Bay.

Does anyone know what their name is going to be? Are they still changing their name?

I was just thinking. The two primary complaints about the Rays seem to be:

1. Atmosphere at games - This could be remedied without a new stadium. Just throw in some music, colorful digital images, t-shirt canons, and some strategically placed bright paint.

2. The stadium looks like a water tower - I honestly don't think the exterior looks all that bad. Also, I hear the roof lights up in orange after a win; that's a nice idea! Finally, photos of the interior make it look pretty decent. Admittedly, it's no Pac Bell Park, but it doesn't seem so bad. I have simply heard so many negative comments regarding the park, and presumed there must be some accuracy involved.

All in all, if the main problem is the atmosphere, then that should be no problem at all. With a little success, the team will build tradition. With tradition, comes atmosphere. Since the ownership is willing to provide a solid organization, one can expect them to add some gimmicks like I mentioned above. After a few years, atmosphere will eventually develop nicely.

FYI Dbranham, the atmosphere is GREAT at Buccaneers games (this was a different story many years back) as well as the Lightning games. Plus, spring training games in the Bay area are a good time.

I do think the Rays atmosphere will improve, and the new owners have already rec'd very positive marks around town.

I've been to a couple of games there and my biggest complaint by far is the configuration of the stadium. It would be so much better for St. Pete if the parking and stadium were switched. Since there's no chance of that happening it's probably a moot point.

I thought the place was fine, not great, not terrible, but better than Pro Player. If they're going to remain an option in Tampa Bay they'll need to seriously upgrade or get a new stadium in the next 10 years, in my opinion.

What I disliked was the prices and atmosphere. I hear the new ownership group is taking steps to remedy both however.

That's good to hear, FLHawk. It might be interesting for you to hear the perspective of an outsider (me, of course). From what I know, Bucs games are among the most hoppin' in the league. As for the Lightning, I can't say too much b/c I'm really not much of a hockey fan (kinda makes Raleigh sports useless for me :nuts: :nuts: ). But, I know of them to be a solid team. Also, I think of Tampa as being the center of spring training baseball. All in all, your city has a lot going for it, sports-wise. I just didn't know much about the Rays, aside from what you read from the pundits. Unfortunately, most pundits are outsiders. So, it's good to hear that the Rays are by no means a struggling organization. Next to a great NFL team, I believe a ML Baseball team is the best entertainment asset a city can have.

At the risk of sounding tangential, what is the general feeling for the Magic? Do Tampans follow them closely. Is that Tampa's team, vicariously through Orlando, of course? Are their games on TV in Tampa Bay?

Ya know, not too many cities are blessed with all 4 major league sports. Only the largest are. Even cities like St. Louis, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Cincinnati, Columbus, San Antonio, etc. don't have all of them. Until relatively recently, neither did Denver, Miami or Phoenix. With Orlando just over an hour down the road, Tampa has them all, plus the Storm. Not bad. Not bad, at all.

Does anyone know what their name is going to be? Are they still changing their name?

Tampa Bay Rays for the 2007 season.

The name issue has not been settled but there is a deadline if the change is to take place for 2007 - and that deadline is imminent.

They've been very quiet about the name change lately, and I wonder if they are still planning to go through with it. I don't think it's a huge deal either way--all the jerseys the fans bought just say "Rays" on them so it wouldn't be as irritating as when the Jaguars changed logos.

I went to three or four games the last two years, and have been to three so far this year. The "atmosphere" is much improved this year over past years. The free parking is a huge plus. Concession prices have been reduced, though by only a very small amount, but the thing about baseball is you have to have a hot dog. Prices are in line with the other mlb parks I've been to, although it's been a few years since I've been to Camden Yards or Turner.

Honestly, I don't see the Rays moving any time soon. If the Marlins organization gets a bunch of money from the state, and attendance numbers drop off, I can see them making threats about moving to see how much cash they can get.
Frankly, I think we're safe for several years. I don't think we need a new stadium yet, either. Honestly, the Trop is NOT THAT BAD. No, it's not PacBell, it's not Camden Yards, it's not a lot of stadiums. But it's just NOT THAT BAD. There are no really bad seats, at least not that you can't sneak out of and find better ones.

There will probably be a new stadium, or plans for a new stadium, in a decade. Once the team improves (all we really need is a bullpen) and the crowds are consistently better, talk will move to a new stadium not as a threat for more money, but because the fans will start asking for one. And that's the right time to build a new stadium.

I just saw that the Rays' attendance is third lowest in MLB, edging only KC and Fla. One of the teams it beat (marlins) is in imminent danger of relocating.

Similarly, payroll is second lowest in the league, edging only the Marlins.

If they ever start winning this would automatically get that stadium rocking..

The bay area is a great sports market.

I still think a retractable roof stadium on the Tampa side would be awesome..

The Rays aren't going anywhere.. Florida is soon going to be the 3rd largest state.. There is no way they take both clubs out of Florida..

I agree. But remember, CA, regardless of its size, lost the Rams to St. L. and LA, regardless of its size, lost the Raiders to Oakland.

As a Blue Jays fan I get to see the D Rays play 18 times a year as division rivals. With that said, I don't see this team moving anywhere any time soon. They have a new owner who is trying to win back the fans. He lowered ticket prices, allows people to bring their own food to the games, etc. He's been very accomodating to the guests of Tropicana Field and I think it is a start in the right direction for the franchise.

To boost that attendance even more though the on-field production needs to get better. I do think that the raw talent is there. They have to hold on to Kazmir as I think he has the chance to turn into a legitimate ace. Gomes, Cantu, Gathright and Crawford are all great up and comers especially Gomes and Cantu who can really hit for power. If they can develop some more prospects and keep this core in tact they should start winning some more ball games. It won't be easy though as they play in the toughest division in baseball.

But the NFL doesn't hide behind the Anti-trust exemption like MLB does. MLB's exemption keeps teams in one place -- for good or for ill -- and makes it very difficult to move.

Heck, it was a 30 year span between the Expos moving and the Washington Senators moving (to Texas to become the Rangers).

The fact of the matter that can't be denied is that Tampa Bay fans turn out for competative teams (or good deals with sports). You can have a stadium about to fall down (Tampa Stadium for instance) but if you put a slightly competative team within the building (in a major sport -- people didn't turn out to the Bayfront Center for crappy minor leagues) and people turn out.

The Rays have NEVER been competative. You want to compare them to the Marlins situation? How many rings does the Marlins franchise have? That's right -- two. They play in a football-first stadium in the boonies of the Miami metro area and the city/county/state won't pay for a new building. That's why they are moving.

The Rays have never won more than 71 games... That's not a product of fan support, that's not a product of Tropicana Field. That's a product of sheer incompetance since the teams inception. It took 10 years to get Chuck LaMar fired. It took ten years for the team to finally clean house with executives. It took 10+ years to finally CLEAN the Trop for god sake! They did the renovations and then some spotty cleaning before the first season and nothing since!

The logic will always be there to move the Devil Rays because fans don't show up but then again? Why would they with what this teams legacy is? Move them and give them a fresh start? Please, how about making the team worth a damn in this market and if fans still fail to show up -- then talk relocation.

The New Jersey Nets and Devils have legit reasons to be moving (one to Brooklyn and the other, with thanks to the firsts relocation, to Newark) as their competativeness has not drawn fans. Their location is part of the problem though. They are near millions of fans but in an out-of-the-way location at Continental Airlines Arena. You can't make a comparison with the Rays because there's been no reason to go see the team. The Lightning were able to draw well in that baseball stadium during their stay their -- which tells you people will commute to the building. Just give them a reason to.

Kansas City has sucked for decades and yet the chorus' out there isn't to have them relocate. Why?

Shea Stadium is a complete piece of garbage, but there is no discussion about relocating the New York Mets (who can fail to draw 20 thousand fans to some games). Why aren't they being brought up in relocation delusions?

The X is on the Rays because of the perception. Tampa Bay is not a good market (utter bullshit), fans won't turn out (for a loser?), the teams payroll is low (and this is our fault because...?), Tropicana Field stinks (...to those who've never been there)...

The biggest reason that I don't go to Rays games is because it's too far away. If the Rays were in Tampa, I would go at least a few times a year. I guess that if they were genuinely competitive (like say a .500 team), I would go sometimes even though they're in St Pete.

The only solution to the Rays problem with competiveness is to move divison's. Even with the plethora of talent about to emerge from the minors that will make the Rays a much better ball club, they can't compete against the Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and Orioles. A move to the AL Central or NL East would put them in a much better situation to win. Until then, D-Ray fans will continue to watch what we have seen for the last 10 years, a team that has never reached its potential.

The AL Central is jammed with talent with the Chisox, the Twins and the Indians... It's been that way for a while. The Rangers want to move into the Central as well and are waiting for a team to move out west so they can do that.

The NL east is just as bad with big money spending -- it's just not the top two spenders in baseball though (like the AL East). The Mets and the Braves throw money around fairly well and the Phillies do it with poor results. Washington will be able to do it in time.

I think any division is going to be tough -- and I think any division ultimately doesn't matter. AL / NL East, AL / NL Central or AL / NL West -- it's been proven you can win with a lower payroll, it just depends on the quality of the players you bring in (which depends in part on scouting and building from the ground up).

The AL Central is jammed with talent with the Chisox, the Twins and the Indians... It's been that way for a while. The Rangers want to move into the Central as well and are waiting for a team to move out west so they can do that.

The NL east is just as bad with big money spending -- it's just not the top two spenders in baseball though (like the AL East). The Mets and the Braves throw money around fairly well and the Phillies do it with poor results. Washington will be able to do it in time.

I think any division is going to be tough -- and I think any division ultimately doesn't matter. AL / NL East, AL / NL Central or AL / NL West -- it's been proven you can win with a lower payroll, it just depends on the quality of the players you bring in (which depends in part on scouting and building from the ground up).

I completely agree with your point, small payroll teams can win in baseball, but when was the last time someone other than the Yankees or Red Sox finished in first or second place in the AL East? Baltimore, in 1997 was the last team to do it, a span of nearly 10 years. The Devil Rays will be successful one day, I just don't see it happening in the AL East.

I'm fine with a move to the NL by the way -- I hate American League baseball (abolish the DH!!)

I think the Jays have a chance to unseat either the Yankees or the Sox this year. Baltimore was throwing money around fairly well the last time they contended in 1997. They and the Jays have been in shambles for a few years. Some flashes of brilliance but in shambles none the less.

The Rays biggest problem with contending in the east is the division heavy schedule and the lack of depth they have (and veteran leadership). They need a couple of guys who have been there (the playoffs) both in the bullpen and on the roster to help lead the kids.

The problem is every time we've had those guys in the past -- they weren't hungry or we pissed away their productive years with mediocre teams surrounding them. That, or we've given too much credit to mediocre players to begin with (mostly pitchers) and expected them to carry the load -- not a small contributor.

I doubt they will move anytimes soon, though the stadium holdup might start soon. I would like a new stadium - retaractable roof, of course, with glass facing the east.

I can sympathize with the Rays fans in here. Being in the same division as the Yanks and the Red Sox will never be easy, expecially since it is by far the richest division in the whole league.

The Rays I see are staying tough staying only a few games back. Every team is within strinking distance of first place. This story won't play out until about late July, then we will know how the division will be shaping up.

The Jays can only win if they up the payroll, and thats what they did. We have a shot this year of unseating the Yankees, and hopefully we will do it. The last time we made the playoffs we were World Series champions. Plus, just seeing the dejected faces of Yankee and Red Sox fans will make everyone around the league smile with pleasure.

Devil Rays to keep name for 2007

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- Tampa Bay will still be known as the Devil Rays next season. That may change in 2008.

Tampa Bay was facing an end-of-the-month deadline to submit proposals to Major League Baseball for any name, uniform or related changes for 2007. Team president Matthew Silverman on Tuesday said the club will continue its review of the matter instead of filing any requests with MLB.

"There will be a change for the 2008 season," Silverman said. "It could be subtle. It could just be a change to the logo or to the uniforms themselves, but we're going to leave open the possibility for more dramatic changes now that we have the time to investigate it fully."

One option is dropping Devil from the team name.

"To do it before the 2007 season would be premature in order to roll it out properly," Silverman said. "We want to make sure that we did it properly, and that's why we decided to wait."

New York investor Stuart Sternberg became the principal owner last fall of the franchise that has never finished higher than fourth place in the AL East. His ownership group has attempted to reach out to fans, spending $10 million dollars to improve Tropicana Field and offering free parking at home games.

"There's a lot of change taking place within the organization and that change will continue for the next couple of years," Silverman said. "Some changes take longer, and the name change is one of those. We want to make sure we get it right."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/05/30/bc.bba.devilrays.name.ap/index.html

It worked for the Bucs. I hope they drop Devil and redesign the color scheme.

Does anybody have any idea what the hell is going on with ouir AAA team as of late? First our best prospects are throwing bats, then getting DUI's, and now I wonder what this is all about. You'd think they could get a better handle on their best players.

Rays Prospect Dukes Suspended Indefinitely

By EDUARDO A. ENCINA

Published: Jun 17, 2006



PHILADELPHIA - Rays farmhand Elijah Dukes was suspended indefinitely by the organization for unspecified disciplinary reasons, the team announced Saturday.

The Durham outfielder and former Hillsborough High standout had been hitting .295 with eight homers and 41 RBIs and had played and behaved well enough to possibly earn a late-season call-up.

Rays executive vice president Andrew Friedman did not wish to comment on the matter Saturday night.

He played in Friday night's game at Durham against Buffalo, going 0-for-4, but was absent from the Bulls' game Saturday.

Dukes' biggest roadblock from the majors has been avoiding off-field troubles. He was drafted by the Rays in the third round of the June 2002 draft and received a $500,000 signing bonus.

Early last month, Dukes was involved in an altercation with Bulls coaches and was removed from the team for seven games. Later in the month Dukes was scratched from the Bulls' starting lineup for showing up late to a game, but he returned the next day.

Last season he served separate six- and three-game suspensions while at Double-A Montgomery.

Dukes has been arrested four times in Hillsborough County since 2003 - all misdemeanor offenses - with the latest coming in September 2005.

But Dukes impressed Rays manager Joe Maddon in the spring with his ability to play center field and his discipline at the plate. Dukes hit .400 (8-for-20) in the spring with one homer and seven RBIs.

Problems at Durham continue to pile up. Shortstop B.J. Upton was arrested for drunken driving Friday. Outfielder Delmon Young returns from a 50-game suspension Monday for throwing a bat at an umpire. And Manager John Tamargo was suspended 10 games earlier this season for bumping an umpire.


http://www.tbo.com/sports/rays/MGBJ99WOKOE.html

Wow, our top 3 prospects in my oppinion. The Rays are beginning somwhat of a winning streak and the offense (baldelli and cantu) are back. The pitching is improving too. We're 3-1 in our last 4 games and we're winning right now 3-2 in the 5th inning. Now we just need to dump Huff.....

Billy Evers being with the Major League team is actually hurting things in Durham. Billy commands respect, loyalty and I think he comes off like a farther figure to many players. The new guy (Tarmarango) isn't of that variety (most coaches aren't). Then again? Dukes, Young and Upton are all highly ranked prospects who've had everything just handed to them in the past. Spoiled a bit?

I don't think you can be spoiled in sports, when you're the athlete. (if you're a yankee fan then yes) Dukes has been thug-like ever since he came up with the Rays. The other two prospects I'm surprised about, and I really don't know much about the mannager, who is possibly the cause of the problems.

Think about it FF -- Upton has been heralded since god-knows-when because of how well he plays. He's a kid still, a spoiled kid at that. Same with Young who was taught that if your attitude doesn't matter if you can hit the long ball cosntantly. Another comparison is Kobe Bryant (going OT on Rays tales here) who has been a spoiled little brat since High School -- he demanded a trade (and got it) as an 18 year old, he's beaten the system with thanks to high priced lawyers, he's got his trophy wife and everything is just rosie no matter what kind of indescresions he has -- all with thanks to being part of a high profile organization.

Dukes is actually the same with pampered-prospect antics -- it's just his problems are a lot more apparent than Young or Upton's... He's another one of Chuck LaMar's "High Risk, High Reward" crapshoots during his tenure as GM that haven't worked out.

Well I think it has some to do with the new Durham manager who has so far failed. They're still kids like you said and they still need good role models. You might be right about Upton all though he shouldn't be 'lazy' or 'spoiled' because his defense sucks. Dukes was always thug-like. However if this makes the elimination of a crowded outfield, and keeping Lugo then lets see what happens.....

Here's an interesting Rays article of what we've been talking about.....

Rays fighting problems on and off the fieldBy Jerry Crasnick
ESPN.com
Archive

The Tampa Bay Devil Rays rank 29th in the majors in attendance with 15,420 fans per game. Tropicana Field would be even more of an echo chamber if not for the roving bands of Red Sox and Yankees fans who spread their special brand of joy at parks around the American League.

The Derek Jeter love and Kevin Youkilis chants don't go unnoticed among Tampa Bay players who would prefer a little more support at home.



AP Photo/George Widman
Carl Crawford's name has surfaced in trade rumors as the Devil Rays consider what to do about their overloaded outfield."It makes you mad when it's your home place and they don't cheer for you," Rays shortstop Julio Lugo said. "When we play the Yankees, probably 80 percent of the fans are Yankee fans. But when we beat the Yankees, they turn into Tampa Bay fans. That tells you if we win, they'll come out."

The Devil Rays have never really tested that proposition in more than theory. There's no need to rehash the franchise's first nine years in depth, but any retrospective must include the Greg Vaughn contract debacle, local fans and corporate sponsors feeling alienated by the ham-handed Vince Naimoli ownership group, and baseballs getting stuck in catwalks. It's not a pretty sight.

Quietly, the Rays are making progress. They're two games over .500 outside the AL East this season, even with a scary run of injuries. Now that Rocco Baldelli, Aubrey Huff, Jorge Cantu and Lugo are off the disabled list after missing a combined 147 games, the Rays will try to improve their status as the worst on-base and 13th-best scoring team in the league.

The new Stuart Sternberg ownership group and the young Matt Silverman-Andrew Friedman front office tandem have brought energy and a sense of direction to the franchise. But lately it's been overwhelmed by what St. Petersburg Times writer Marc Topkin calls "Prospects Gone Wild," the nightly soap opera emanating from the Tampa Bay farm system.

Shortstop B.J. Upton, whose biggest problem has been an inability to pick up balls and throw them accurately for Triple-A Durham, was pinched Friday for driving 51 mph in a 30-mph zone with a blood alcohol level of .11. For most organizations, this might qualify as a big deal. For the Devil Rays, it was just another reason to haul out the handy-dandy "crisis management" press release.

Outfielder Josh Hamilton, he of the multiple drug violations, is in extended spring training awaiting word from Major League Baseball on whether he can join a minor-league club. Privately, Devil Rays officials are doubtful Hamilton can fulfill his potential as the No. 1 pick in the 1999 draft. Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry showed how difficult it is to beat addiction, and for all of Hamilton's promise, he is 25 years old and has never played above the high Class A California League.

Outfielder Elijah Dukes, a physical specimen at 6-foot-2, 225 pounds, joined the fray Saturday when the Rays sent him home from Durham for undisclosed disciplinary reasons. Dukes' baseball suspensions are now running neck and neck with his previous misdemeanor arrests (four or five, depending on which newspaper account you believe).

And of course, there's Delmon Young, whose April bat toss was replayed on ESPN more than autistic basketball manager Jason McElwain's 3-point barrage. Young lost $145,000 in salary during his 50-game suspension and did 50 hours of community service, during which he conducted Little League clinics and played wheelchair baseball with disabled youngsters. He finally returns to action Monday night.

"Delmon is going to have to go out of his way to battle this for a long time," Friedman said. "We hope and expect he'll learn from it and be better for it. A lot of it is rhetoric right now, but he definitely seems to grasp the magnitude of it."

Things better improve soon, or the beleaguered Durham Bulls might have to call in the Duke athletic department security force for assistance.


Frustrating events
The barrage of bad news is compounded by the Rays' failure to build a legitimate pitching rotation. Former first-round pick Dewon Brazelton has been a bust in Tampa and San Diego. And Rice products Jeff Niemann and Wade Townsend, who could take some pressure off an emerging Scott Kazmir, are both trying to come back from arm surgery.

"I want us to play against the perceived best teams in all of baseball. I think as we do that, it's going to make us better quicker."
-- Devil Rays manager Joe MaddonInjuries can't be helped. It's the extraneous stuff that's giving the Rays a case of transgression fatigue.
"It's a little bit frustrating," manager Joe Maddon said Friday after the Upton incident. "But these are young men. I wasn't nearly a perfect soldier at that point in my development as a human, either.

"We support Delmon. We support B.J. We support Elijah. These three guys are off-the-chart good baseball players, and I think they're good people too. When a young man makes a mistake, it's our job to make sure it doesn't happen again. If it becomes a persistent problem, then obviously something may have to be done about it. But I'm OK with second chances. I think everybody deserves a second chance."

Maddon, a former Lafayette University economics major and Luciano Pavarotti fan, is more suited to the building mode than Lou Piniella, whose tenure in Tampa tested his natural impulse to yank bases from their moorings. Maddon delivers his critiques in even-tempered, constructive tones, and he's as open-minded as they get. Twice this year he's stationed four players in the outfield and his second baseman in short right field to defense David Ortiz and Ryan Howard.

Just make sure to bring your dictionary. So far this season, Maddon has used the word "transmogrify" (to change the appearance of) to describe Toronto's Rogers Centre with the roof open and closed; "anamorphic" on the lack of roles in the Rays' bullpen; and "ameliorate" in regard to Baldelli's efforts to come back from a leg injury.

Maddon even employed "Meat Loaf" as a verb.

"Whenever you Meat Loaf the world champs, it's not a bad thing," he said after the Devil Rays took two of three from the White Sox. As in the old song, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad."

"He's a very special person," Lugo said. "He communicates with the players very well and lets you be who you are. He talks when he needs to talk and shuts up when he needs to shut up. That's important."


Trade speculation
One of Maddon's biggest challenges is keeping his players focused amid the trade rumors. Lugo, catcher Toby Hall and Huff are chat-board speculation regulars. But the biggest prize in town is Carl Crawford, whose name recently surfaced in a rumored deal for Angels starter Ervin Santana.

Gomes
In reality, the Crawford speculation has gotten ahead of itself. Yes, the Rays have an outfield surplus. But Baldelli just returned after missing 221 games with knee and elbow injuries. Jonny Gomes is ideally a DH, and Joey Gathright's offensive problems earned him a trip to the minors. Huff is currently playing third base, and Young and Dukes have delayed their development with off-field issues.

Crawford, 24, is a triples and stolen base machine and the "best defensive left fielder in the game today," according to John Dewan's "The Fielding Bible." He has scored 100 runs two straight years while raising his OPS from .671 in 2003 to .854 thus far this season. He is also signed to a very affordable deal that could run through 2010. The Rays would want such a talent haul in return, Crawford probably isn't even worth discussing.

If the rumors are preying on Crawford's psyche, he doesn't show it. He has 13 multiple-hit games in his last 22 starts, and he's batting .339 since Maddon moved him from leadoff to the No. 2 hole in early May.

"I'm from Houston and all we knew were [Jeff] Bagwell and [Craig] Biggio since I was a kid," Crawford said. "I definitely wanted to be one of those guys who stayed with a team the whole time. Then I got to the big leagues and I understood that's hard to do now. I'm fine with it. If the organization has other plans, I'll just have to deal with that."

A scout who follows the Devil Rays regularly describes them as a notorious first-ball fastball hitting team that wears out mediocre pitching. He also characterized the pitching as "brutal," particularly in the bullpen. Veterans Dan Miceli and Shinji Mori are on the disabled list, and with the recently acquired Tyler Walker now down with a strained right elbow, the Rays are essentially closer-less.

Management continues to monitor the progress of former Dodgers phenom Edwin Jackson, who is clocking 96-plus in Durham. The short-term plan is to have Jackson come to the majors as a reliever this season, then compete for a starting job next spring. But Friedman won't rule out the possibility of Jackson's closing games with the big club.

Even though the Rays are 12-25 in the division, Maddon likes the challenge of competing against teams with more tradition and gargantuan payrolls.

"I want us to play against the perceived best teams in all of baseball," Maddon said. "I think as we do that, it's going to make us better quicker."

Until the Devil Rays transmogrify into the real thing, file them under "intriguing." It's tough to reach your destination when each step forward comes with an accompanying step back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2490699 (http://http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2490699)

How about my D-Rays putting a whippin on Boston again today..

Even Curt Shilling was quoted as saying that Tampa's lineup is as good as any in the American league..

We are finally headed in the right direction.. :yes: :cheers1:

Okay can we get a shout out for the Rays.. Winning again tonight 5-2..

We seem to now have 4 pretty good pitchers ,to go along with the great lineup that we are putting on the field every night..

Shields 4-1 era 4.00
Kazmir 10-5 3.30
Corcoran 3-0 1.60
Fossum 4-3 4.20

How about my D-Rays putting a whippin on Boston again today..

Even Curt Shilling was quoted as saying that Tampa's lineup is as good as any in the American league..

We are finally headed in the right direction.. :yes: :cheers1:Lets hope we stay that way.

The D-Rays traded Aubrey Huff today. The pitching prospect looks good but we got another shortstop that makes too many errors. This guy has 16 already this year!


HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros announced today that they have acquired outfielder Aubrey Huff and $1.625 million in cash considerations from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in exchange for minor league right-handed pitcher Mitch Talbot and minor league infielder Ben Zobrist. In addition, the Astros have optioned outfielder Jason Lane to Triple-A Round Rock and designated minor league infielder Joe McEwing for assignment. The announcement was made by General Manager Tim Purpura.
Huff, 30, was batting .283 (65x230) with eight home runs, 15 doubles and 28 RBI in 63 games for the Devil Rays this season. He batted .453 (29x64) in Interleague play this year, the second-best mark in the Majors. He hit .359 (33x92) in June, and on June 30, he became the first Devil Ray to reach 300 extra base hits. Huff spent 21 days on the Disabled List from April 12-May 4, his first career trip to the DL, with a strained left knee. He is batting .293 (61x208) with eight homers and 27 RBI since his return.

Currently in his sixth big league season, Huff is batting .287 (870x3028) during his career with 128 home runs and 449 RBI. He is Tampa Bay's all-time leader in games (799), at-bats (3,028), runs (400), hits (870), doubles (172), home runs (128), extra-base hits (309), and RBI (449). He made his big league debut with the Devil Rays in 2000 and is the only player in Rays history to reach the 20-home run mark in four seasons (2002-05). Huff is one of five left-handed hitters to average 100-plus RBI the past three seasons, joining David Ortiz, Carlos Delgado, Hideki Matsui and Bobby Abreu. He is a career .303 (436x1437) hitter after the All-Star break with 71 home runs and 239 RBI.

Huff was Tampa Bay's fifth-round selection in the June 1998 draft out of the University of Miami. He attended Vernon College in North Texas and played both baseball and basketball at Brewer High School in Fort Worth.

Lane, 29, is batting .205 (46x224) for the Astros this season with 11 home runs, 30 RBI and 40 walks. He made his Major League debut in 2002 and this year marked his third consecutive on the Astros Opening Day roster. He is hitting .256 (249x973) with 49 home runs and 147 RBI for his career.

Talbot, 22, is in his fourth professional season after being selected by Houston in the second round of the June 2002 draft. He is 6-4 with a 3.39 ERA (34ER/90.1IP) in 18 appearances (17 starts) for Double A Corpus Christi this season. He ranks seventh in the Texas League in ERA and third with 96 strikeouts.

Zobrist, 25, was selected by the Astros in the sixth round of the June 2004 draft. He is batting .327 (103x315) for Corpus Christi this year with three home runs, 25 doubles, six triples, and 30 RBI. He ranks second in the Texas League in batting this season. Zobrist was named a Texas League All-Star last month, and he has earned All-Star honors in each of his professional seasons.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060712&content_id=1554105&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Zorbist immediately promoted to Triple A Durham )where he belongs, given his stats).

BJ Upton is now playing 3rd base "on a short-term basis" and a possible promotion to Tampa Bay hinges on it.

This probaly means Lugo will probaly be traded now, if we got another SS, and a Young call up is pretty likely now.

Why is a Young call up likely? Young isn't an Infielder.

Why is a Young call up likely? Young isn't an Infielder.

Ah, I actually meant Kevin Witt. The guy leads the entire DRO in Homeruns, and could be the 1st basemen, replecing Lee. He was also 3-3 in last nights Triple-A all star game, including a HR. This would allow Wiggy to move to 3rd until Upton comes up. Young is ready to come up too though to replace Norton/Branyan etc. And Ruddy Lugo is coming back in a week I heard. Edwin Jackson and Tomas Perez are worthless right now in the Majors and need to be sent down so these would be some of the moves I would make.

Ruddy is coming back tomorrow. He's taking up Huff's roster spot upon activation

That's stupid if you ask me. There just letting Edwin Jackson rot in the bullpen when he should be down in Durham. Bring up Lugo and Witt and send down Jackson and you've got a pretty solid team.

i say we traded delmon young and bj upton for some arms...
you always hear "baseball is all about pitching".. well, if thats the case, why dont we make a commitment to making our 1st 2 rds ONLY pitchers.. therefore, flooding our farm system with 1st rd/2nd rd talent-- that way, SOMEONE is bound to pan out and start.. not only that, its easier to get free agent bats than free agent pitching (especially in small market teams). it's pretty pathetic what the marlins do (win a world series and have a firesale afterwards), but IMO its the only way to compete against the big market teams with their huge payrolls

my problem isnt with the rays, its with the infrastructure of baseball. it's unfair that you can "buy" championships, baseball needs a cap

i say we traded delmon young and bj upton for some arms...
you always hear "baseball is all about pitching".. well, if thats the case, why dont we make a commitment to making our 1st 2 rds ONLY pitchers.. therefore, flooding our farm system with 1st rd/2nd rd talent-- that way, SOMEONE is bound to pan out and start.. not only that, its easier to get free agent bats than free agent pitching (especially in small market teams). it's pretty pathetic what the marlins do (win a world series and have a firesale afterwards), but IMO its the only way to compete against the big market teams with their huge payrolls

my problem isnt with the rays, its with the infrastructure of baseball. it's unfair that you can "buy" championships, baseball needs a cap

Well, usually pitchers once drafted, take 3-4 years before coming up to the majors, and their success rate is a lot lower then hitters. So even if you flood now you maybe wasting some picks and still having to wait another 4 years for the first draft to come through anyway. I also think all hopes trading Upton depends on what happens with Lugo, but the Rays shouldn't trade Young. And yes baseball would be a much better sport in general if there was a salry cap.

It sounds like you got Young and Upton mixed up again, FF...

Young is the bastard who doesn't seem like someone to hold on to.

Upton might be a little slow to get the picture he has to do something to improve (change positions) but he's been more stable than Young.

Not so sure about this one, there's a reason why Port Charlotte Stadium is empty...


Charlotte Tries to Lure Devil Rays for Spring Training


STAFF REPORT

The Charlotte County commissioners are in preliminary negotiations to bring the Tampa Bay Devil Rays spring training to the Charlotte Sports Park.

At Tuesday’s meeting, County Administrator Bruce Loucks told the commissioners that the arrangement would require $25 million to $30 million to upgrade the stadium on State Road 776 so the Devil Rays could use it.

The commissioners said they would only consider the proposal if: No ad valorem tax funds were required. The professional team did not preclude other uses at the stadium.

Funding proposals include adding a fifth cent to the county’s tourism bed tax and applying for a $500,000 state grant. The Devil Rays also proposed to pay about $420,000 in funding.

Representatives from the Devil Rays are expected to attend an Aug. 22 meeting to discuss the proposal in depth.

The Texas Rangers moved spring training from Charlotte County to Arizona after March 2002.

In recent years, the stadium has been used by a Korean professional team, the Kia Tigers.

Also, it has served as the host site for an annual invitational tournament that draws nearly 100 small colleges from around the country.

The proposed Devil Rays arrangement could conflict with those uses, Loucks said.


http://heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060808/BREAKING03/60808007

County endorses Devil Rays plan

The deal depends on a state grant and a vote to raise the tourist tax.
By SARA LUBBES

sara.lubbes@heraldtribune.com
CHARLOTTE COUNTY -- Start saving for those season tickets: Major League Baseball is one step closer to coming back to Charlotte County.

Officials endorsed a plan Tuesday that would bring the Tampa Bay Devil Rays from St. Petersburg to the Charlotte Sports Park in Port Charlotte for spring training starting in 2009.

The $27 million deal hinges on the county winning a state grant. It will also require a hike in the tax charged on hotel rooms and condo rentals.

The commissioners and Rays representatives were optimistic enough Tuesday to call the project all but a done deal.

"As far as we're concerned, this is where we're going to be for the next 20 years," said Michael Kalt, the team's senior vice president for development and business affairs.

Commissioner Tom D'Aprile shared that enthusiasm.

"It's just a wonderful thing that we are finally going to have something to do with the stadium," he said.

Before the unanimous vote Tuesday, the commission's affection for baseball seemed to be on shaky ground, however.

Because the project requires a 1 percentage point increase in the tourist tax, from 4 percent to 5 percent, all four commissioners had to support it.

Commissioner Adam Cummings had said this week he was considering voting against the tax increase because local hotel owners opposed it.

The county's tourism council also voted against the plan, fearing it would encourage visitors to make day trips to the area but not stay overnight.

Cummings said he mulled the Rays deal carefully Monday night and realized baseball would be an asset to Charlotte tourism. He also met with Rays representatives Monday afternoon.

"I didn't really know for sure what I was going to do until I woke up this morning," Cummings said after the vote. "I was on the phone last night until 9 p.m. about it."

The commission will take an official vote and hold a public hearing on the tourist tax increase Sept. 12.

But the deal won't truly be done until January, when the county learns whether it has won the grant from the Florida Sports Foundation.

Without the grant, the county will not have the money to bring the Rays to Charlotte.

"All parties have agreed they would walk away," said Laura Kleiss-Hoeft, director of Charlotte parks and recreation.

County officials say they are confident they meet all the qualifications to win the money, however.

Under state law, the grant can go to up to five municipalities, but as many as seven teams might be applying this year, said County Administrator Bruce Loucks.

Applications are due in October.

If the Rays make the move to Charlotte, the county will have to give up some annual events, including the Port Charlotte Invitational, which brings 98 college teams to the county.

A Korean team, the Kia Tigers, would also have to find a new home.

What's more, the county would have to abandon plans to remodel the stadium for public use.

Those plans, which would cost $20 million, include an Olympic-sized pool and public gym and required a boost in the tourist tax in 2004.

The county's budget office estimates the Rays would bring in about $70,000 in total profit to the county alone over 30 years.

The county hasn't hosted a major league team since the Texas Rangers left in 2002. The county negotiated with the Cleveland Indians, but that fell through after the team asked for $9 million in taxes for the project.

The Rays deal is different because it uses tax money paid by visitors, not Charlotte residents, county staff stressed.

The costs breakdown like this:

Forty percent -- or $15 million -- of the proceeds from the 5-cents-on-the-dollar tourist tax would be used.

As much as $15 million could come from the state.

The Rays would contribute about $4 million.

The tax money and the grants would be used over time to pay off the $27 million loan the county would need to take out for the stadium upgrade. The loan would be paid back over 20 years.

Charlotte would also cover most of the stadium's $450,000 upkeep cost.

Other details of the contract between the county and the Rays emerged Tuesday as well.

The Rays would have exclusive use of the upgraded stadium from Feb. 15 to April 3. The team would also use the facility in July and September for training camps.

Construction would take about 18 months. During that time, the facility could still be used for events. The county could lose about $60,000 in revenue during construction, Kleiss-Hoeft said.

The new stadium would include a restaurant, kids play area and lawn seating, and hold up to 7,500 fans.

To generate community interest in the team, the Rays would give as many as 5,000 free tickets to youth groups.

Meanwhile, in Sarasota, a plan for a $54 million spring training complex on 12th Street got its second boost of the week Tuesday, but the biggest hurdles for the project are still to come.

Sarasota commissioners voted Tuesday to set a public hearing Sept. 13 for a vote on whether to raise the county's bed tax to help pay for a new baseball stadium and practice fields for the Cincinnati Reds.

But plans could still hinge on Sarasota County's purchase of 120 acres at Tuttle Avenue and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Way. Also, there's a gulf between city and county projections of how much money the increase in the bed tax would generate.

The city estimates it will have to raise $53 million for construction by issuing bonds and is relying on the bed tax to pay off $17.6 million of that over a 20-year period. The county estimates the tax on room rentals will generate enough to pay off $15.6 million of the loan. City Manager Mike McNees said that city and county finance officers would work out differences on financing by the Sept. 13 hearing.

http://heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/NEWS/608230734/1023/SPORTS08

Delmon Young made his debut last night going 2-3 with a Homerun and hit by a pitch.

and misplayed a baseball hit at him that ended up being a home run.

OUCH! :(

I just can't help but feel sorry for the Rays. They try so hard but can't seem to win enough to make a difference.

OUCH! :(

I just can't help but feel sorry for the Rays. They try so hard but can't seem to win enough to make a difference.
this is true, Quegiebo.

as an orioles fan, i'm glad you guys are in our division. otherwise, the o's would finish DEAD LAST every year..........LOL.:hilarious

but on a serious note, to answer the question to the topic of this thread, YES, i think it's just a matter of time before the d-rays move. they've finished in the cellar of the american league east EVERY year since they've been in the majors except one, i think. at the end of the baseball season, the standings always look like this:

NYY
Bos
Tor
Bal
TB


OR like this:


Bos
NYY
Tor
Bal
TB

tampa's a beautiful city and is truly a wonderful sports town, but i think unless there's a dramatic turnaround with this franchise in the next 5-8 years or so, they're going to relocate. it would be a smart decision financial-wise.

NYY
Bos
Tor
Bal
TB


OR like this:


Bos
NYY
Tor
Bal
TB

Well for the last decade the latter thankfully hasn't happened :) . Eventually I would have to think if baseball doesn't implement more payroll taxes that the D-Rays would have to think about a move to the AL Central or NL East. Maybe they could switch places with Detroit or Cleveland in the Central, or maybe Florida or Philadelphia in the NL East. Although I highly doubt a move to the NL is coming. Most likely the D-Rays will just have to wait it out until either their talent gets really good or Boston and New York finally run out of money. Toronto tried to increase its payroll this year and look where it go them, nowhere.

Eventually there has to be a salary cap in baseball..

I was just talking to my friends at work and we all agree baseball with the same teams in every year in the playoffs, is just not fair and they really need to do something about it..

Every major sport has a cap except baseball..

Give the small market clubs a chance..

The D-Rays have so much young talent, we need to go after some top tier free agents in 2007..

Eventually there has to be a salary cap in baseball..

I was just talking to my friends at work and we all agree baseball with the same teams in every year in the playoffs, is just not fair and they really need to do something about it..

Every major sport has a cap except baseball..

Give the small market clubs a chance..

The D-Rays have so much young talent, we need to go after some top tier free agents in 2007..

You're not up on the process and what has gone on in MLB the last 12 years eh? Or perhaps nto that attune to how certain politicos use baseball as a political arm. Let me try to explain both.

First off, there was a strike that canceled the end of the 1994 season, the playoffs and the begining of the 1995 season. All of it was over the ideas that revenue sharing and a salary cap would be imposed in the future.

There have been several labor flare ups since then -- all of it having to do with revenue sharing and a possible cap on salaries. The 1995 settlement between owners and players instituted a "Salary Tax" on clubs that went over X amount with salaries. It did not limit spending. Nor has any of the increased salary taxation helped things. Nor has revenue sharing helped as certain owners have taken revenue sharing in and limited salaries to mark profits (hello Vince Naimoli!).

There are politicians that believe Baseball is the American Dream in a business sense: a free market economy where the strong survive every season. The strong are those who are economically well built as well as properly managed. They see the idea of a salary cap the same way the players union see is -- communicsm incarnate dropping in on the great American dream.

Does there need to be a cap on spending? Yes. Will it happen? No... SImply because the union is too strong and the political interests in baseball keep it the way it is. That's why they are exempt from the Sherman Anti-Trust act and only have threats to that exemption pushed on them by Congress when there is something going on with baseball that is not good (the recent Steroid scandal is an example of it).

Will a cap happen? Yes! Unless the union and owners are too stupid to realize that only 10-12 teams will survive if things stay the same. Yankees/Mets/whowever can spend all they like but if they have no one to play against how long will that continue.

Maybe MLB should eliminate a couple of teams to start. Or better yet do like English soccer. Relegate the weakest teams to AAA and bring up the top AAA teams to MLB.

Anything is better than what goes on year after year. Thank satan that George and the Yankees are out of it this year. Same with Atlanta.

Go Tigers!

Actually I think Cal may be on to something. As I see it, any given year, no more than twelve teams have any decent chance of doing anything. It is not, however, always the same 12 teams every year. This is a result of the expansion of MLB beyond the pitching dilution point on the talent curve. At most I think MLB could rest at 16 teams--four in each division in two two-division leagues--and have the talent pool not so diluted that all teams could maintain equal talent in a non-monetary field. Obviously given the current monetary system in baseball all 16 teams would not be equal, but this is all theory here. I would therefore argue that contraction, done correctly, is in fact the best way to make MLB more entertaining for fans of those teams that do survive the purge, rather than every season being a "who has a chance to beat the Yankees this year" storyline that I, frankly, having been born on opening day in a hospital withing shouting distance of old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore and hence a baseball fan for life, am growing weary of (as you might suspect, any league of 12 or 16 teams in my mind always manages to include the Orioles).
Such teams as do not make the initial purge, however, should not be disbanded as MLB attempted to do a few years ago (because it is run by crass opportunists who are not in fact all that interested in baseball), but relegated to an MLB II (obviously with a more attractive name) resting between AAA and MLB. This league would be divided up in the same way--AL and NL, with two geographic divisions (I've never liked the "central" division and think it's indicative of the overgrowth of MLB)--and would play for its own championship (which we might call the American series if we like). Each year, the winner of said championship would enter the MLB, and the team in MLB with the worst record would be relegated to the new league.
This, of course, will never happen. Never, ever, ever, not in a million-billion years even if God should come in His glory as a pillar of smoke and decree it. MLB would fold up their tents and go home rather than let anyone else dictate to them how to loot America's pasttime.

It's George W. Bush's fault.

Instead of contracting, I saw we move a couple of teams. We need one, if not two more teams in the New York area. This may not seem fair, but it would cut down on the Yankees and Mets market share (eventually). Kansas City and Milwaukee would make good candidates. Move the Brewers to the Meadowlands and Royals to either Connecticut or to Brooklyn.

The Brewers just got a brand new stadium a few years back, no way they are moving now. Plus if they moved the Royals, then what was the point of starting the whole revenue sharing tax? It was designed to help smaller market teams like the Royals and Devil Rays compete with the Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox. Unfortunately until baseball dictates where that money is spent those teams will not get better.

Point being if they leveld out the markets, they wouldn't need a revenue sharing tax. It doesn't work because it doesn't make small market teams spend it.

Maybe moving would help and maybe not. I root for a small-market team now, the Devil Rays. If MLB moved the Devil Rays, I wouldn't continue to root for them; I root for them because I'm from Tampa. I can't but think folks in Kansas City or Milwaukee or Pittsburgh would feel the same way. The New York metro could support four teams, sure, and it <b>might</b> level the playing field over time (although the talent pool will still be too diluted) to do that. But what incentive would MLB fans in Kansas City or Milwaukee or Tampa have to continue rooting for a team that left their city behind for greener pastures? I don't know very many people in Baltimore who continued to root for the Colts after Irsay up and moved the team in the 70s. How many LA residents root the St. Louis Rams? Who in St. Louis cares about the Arizona Cardinals?
What do we gain if we move a bunch of teams to even the playing field, but abandon fans in half a dozen MLB cities?

I don't know very many people in Baltimore who continued to root for the Colts after Irsay up and moved the team in the 70s.
1984 was the year.

i remember that day quite well. it was like a parent watching their child playing in the back yard. YOU LOOK AGAIN......she's there. YOU LOOK AGAIN.........she's there. YOU LOOK AGAIN..........she's there. YOU LOOK AGAIN ONE FINAL TIME.................she's gone; on I-70 headed to indianapolis. gone without a trace. yes, a VERY sad day indeed.

Instead of contracting, I saw we move a couple of teams. We need one, if not two more teams in the New York area. This may not seem fair, but it would cut down on the Yankees and Mets market share (eventually). Kansas City and Milwaukee would make good candidates. Move the Brewers to the Meadowlands and Royals to either Connecticut or to Brooklyn.

Before I touch on your point, Brickell -- any sports team moving to the Meadowlands is a kiss-of-death. The Meadowlands has basically no connection to the New York Metro area besides highways and you need as many connections as possible to draw fans in that region.

Look at the Nets and how they do with attendance when they are competitive. Look at the Devils. The attendance at CAA is pathetic at best during both the regular season and the playoffs. No one wants to go watch sports in the Swamps of Jersey besides a weekly sojurn for the Giants or Jets. Football is once a week, 8 weeks a year (not counting pre-season) while the NBA, NHL and MLB are daily happenings. Having a baseball team in the Meadowlands sports complex would, as I said, be a kiss of death.

Now back to your point about more teams in the Northeast to siphon money away from the Mets, Yankees (and potentially the Bosox if the team is located in Conn. or northern NY)... They actually talked about this a bit when the Expos future was uncertain and Washington wasn't penciled in as the new host city for the team. In fact, Jeffery Loria having made his fortune in NY had supposedly looked into things (before MLB bought the expos from him and he bought the marlins, etc).

Economically, having another team up there does spread the wealth but it also makes the sport more northeast-centric. People get tired of the Boston/New York rivalry, or the Mets filling in on TV when the Yankees can't play another game on Fox this week. While it'd spread the wealth in NY a little more, there is more money to go around up there than anywhere else. You could likely have four or five teams in the immediate tri-state area (if egos such as Steinbrenner's weren't representing any of the teams, that is).

I don't support having more teams in NY or relocation of franchises... It's a way of avoiding a real solution to problems that MLB faces -- escalating player salaries and out-of-control spending clubs. A cap needs to be put in place on salaries, and all TV revenue -- local and national -- pooled and distributed to the teams.

The NFL model can be looked at as a comparison point (though they just have the one, big national deal)... but with how the owners don't think they need to give a rats ass about anyone other than themselves, they'd rather see baseball go tits-up than share money equally (for player payroll purposes).

You don't actually suggest you compare MLB to the NFL. . . there is nothing that MLB does better than NFL - anything. MLB is a joke.

I saw an interesting factoid yesterday: this year's New York Yankees luxury tax payment of $26 mil. is more than the Devil Rays entire player payroll. Wow!

You don't actually suggest you compare MLB to the NFL. . . there is nothing that MLB does better than NFL - anything. MLB is a joke.

The only time I try to "compare" the NFL with anything is trying to show a standard that should be mimicked and copied...

MLB tries to re-invent the wheel, the NBA copies much of the NFL's finances but holds it's players to a lower standard, the NHL tries to copy the NBA and NFL while it's players are desperate to be held to MLB's standards (and the owners of NHL teams, put together,tend to be dumber than the dumbest MLB owner).

But I digress...

this is true, Quegiebo.

as an orioles fan, i'm glad you guys are in our division. otherwise, the o's would finish DEAD LAST every year..........LOL.:hilarious
Yeah, no kiddin' hehehehehe:D

I don't support having more teams in NY or relocation of franchises... It's a way of avoiding a real solution to problems that MLB faces -- escalating player salaries and out-of-control spending clubs. A cap needs to be put in place on salaries, and all TV revenue -- local and national -- pooled and distributed to the teams.

The NFL model can be looked at as a comparison point (though they just have the one, big national deal)... but with how the owners don't think they need to give a rats ass about anyone other than themselves, they'd rather see baseball go tits-up than share money equally (for player payroll purposes).

Exactly, John! MLB's current structure is counter-productive and will, as I see it, eventually destroy America's past-time (sp). As it stands now, professional baseball is strictly profit driven and that's unfortunate. What ever happened to the love of the game? To suggest moving the least successful teams to another area (particularly the N.E.) or reduce the current number of teams because they can't fairly compete is not a solution, it's a nail in the coffin. But I digress. . . and I'm certainly no expert. I just love the game!

Play ball! :)

Rays may be raking in more dough but yet the payroll continues to go down.

Rays sales up again
Tampa Bay Business Journal - 2:49 PM EDT Tuesday, March 27, 2007by Larry Halstead

While the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are still experiencing Ground Hog Day on the field, its business and marketing department is full of optimism for the future.

Season ticket sales are up 10 percent and sponsorships are up 20 percent this year, said Mark Fernandez, vice president and chief sales officer for the Rays, at a meeting of the Kiwanis Club of St. Petersburg Tuesday. He said the Rays are trying to change the corporate culture and connect with the community, a common lecture-circuit theme for Rays' executives.


"We have a responsibility to make a difference in the community," he said.

As part of the metamorphosis from the penurious Vince Naimoli era, the Rays are investing dollars back into the community through a Little League field-rebuilding program and through partnerships with community-based companies. Many of the newest sponsorship deals include fan interactive activities at games.

A new event being developed is a Tampa Bay high school all-star game, pitting Hillsborough County prepsters against Pinellas County players. Another program is the Rays for Grades, where school children can earn game tickets for good grades.

It's all part of a rebranding effort by the Rays to gain fan support in the Tampa Bay area and beyond.

"I believe that we'll be the dominant sports franchise in the Tampa Bay area someday," Fernandez said.

Pushing the region diameter
In order to extend the support for the team, the Rays are moving their spring training headquarters to Port Charlotte, moving a three-game series against the Texas Rangers to Orlando and expanding the broadcast territory to Orlando and Port Charlotte.

"The team needs regional support to survive, so we have to grow the fan base," he said.

In an effort to increase support in Hillsborough County, the Rays recently announced a partnership with International Plaza, where the Rays will redesign the children's play area to showcase the Rays and Warner Brothers' Looney Tune characters. The deal also gives the Rays exclusivity in the mall and an opportunity to sell Rays' products and tickets.

This season the Rays will try to build theme nights, with a heavy emphasis on weekends. That's why they're not as concerned about losing revenue by moving the weekday Ranger series to Orlando. With the Disney stadium in Orlando holding 14,000, the series appears to be a wash for attendance for the Rays, with the chance to develop new fans in the center of the state. A goal is to entice Orlando fans to come to the Suncoast for a weekend series and stay in a beach hotel.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/03/26/daily23.html?surround=lfn

There was a story in the times, BTW, about Matthew Silverman and co trying to bring Vince Naimoli back as a face in the franchise. yes, bring him back. He's supposed to be working with PR people but this idea seems insane from the get go.

Raising the Rays right

It is Matt Silverman's job as team president to find the money, talent and fans to help the franchise grow - and win.

By Robert Trigaux, Times Business Editor
Published March 26, 2007


From Matt Silverman's spacious office overlooking Tropicana Field, cranes crowd centerfield in the rush to install scoreboards and corporate signage on the Trop's gray concrete walls.

Just 11 days to Opening Day and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays' president is talking turf. Rays turf.

Not that lush new turf on the field, but the regional turf of west-central Florida Silverman is trying capture for the in-flux brand that is the Rays' Major League Baseball franchise.

On one hand, Silverman, 30, is pestered by hometown loyalists - even St. Pete Mayor Rick Baker chimes in - bugging him to change the name to the St. Petersburg Rays.

For the record, there is a name change coming. So long, "Devil." In all probability, look for the Tampa Bay Rays and a new logo to be formally unveiled this fall.

Rather than narrow the brand, Silverman wants his Rays franchise to encompass an imposing geographic area of loyal fans stretching from Ocala in the north to Orlando in the east and south to Charlotte County. Big talk. But Silverman is patient. Sometimes, it can take a generation.

Just getting Tampa fans to drive over that blasted magical barrier - the Howard Frankland Bridge - to home games would be a nice goal.

Keep in mind what Silverman's real job is. He's the eyes and ears of franchise principal owner, New Yorker Stu Sternberg. He's supposed to boost the Rays' brand and franchise value and sell the Rays as a genuine contributor to the greater Tampa Bay community.

As for building the last-place Rays into more of a winner on the field, that job belongs to others. Sure, when the Rays improve, Silverman's job will get a lot easier.

"We can put in a new scoreboard in a season," Silverman says. "On the baseball side, we can make a great decision to draft third baseman Evan Longoria (third pick in the June 2006 draft), but we may not see the impact of that until 2008 or 2009 or later."

A year ago, Forbes valued the Rays at $209-million, less than any of the other 29 MLB franchises. At $209-million, the Rays franchise was $16-million lower than its value in 1999 after the first season.

But the $209-million value last year was a whopping $67-million higher than the dreadful low reached in 2002. And between 2005 and 2006, the Rays franchise value jumped by $33-million, the greatest one-year bump yet.

Some perspective. The Minnesota Twins, 29th in MLB franchise value, added $38-million between '05 and '06. The kingpin Yankees added $76-million.

But consider this. The Florida Marlins (ranked 28th in value in '06) rose by $20-million, or $13-million less that year than the Rays. That makes the Marlins franchise value $17-million higher than Tampa Bay's.

For the Rays, corporate sponsorships (including one with this newspaper) are up and expected to climb again this year.

In what might be Silverman's boldest and most compassionate task, he's exploring the possible public resurrection of Vince Naimoli - the guy who helped bring the Rays franchise here, then so successfully alienated this region's entire fan base.

A public relations expert is working with Naimoli, who has an office at the Trop. Can Vince be redeemed? Are we heading to the World Series? In baseball, anything's possible.

Robert Trigaux can be reached at trigaux@sptimes.com or (727)893-8405.

Thanks TT< that was the story in question

Well the Rays dropped their season opener today 9-5. I watched the game and other then out bullpen which gave up 6 runs in 3 innings, the team performed well. Elijiah Dukes had a Home Run. If he can keep his head on straight he is going to be a good player, I'm happy we hadn't given up on him yet.

That's great to see the book value of the franchise climbing as much as it is. That bodes well for future ability to spend more and produce a better product, which will drive demand through the roof in a market like this.

Has anybody noticed that Josh Hamilton has started the past 2 games for the Reds and he has a homer in each? This could end up being a great story if this continues. I know I'm rooting for him!!

Anyone else pumped up that they finally moved Riggans up to help catch? Navarro has been in quite a slump.

Jason or FF, I'm thinking this thread is a good candidate to be moved to the cafe.

^I agree, I moved it.

I went to a Rays game a few weeks ago on a Friday night and was pretty impressed with the improvements that have been made to the Trop over the past year. The Rays touch tank in out field is pretty cool. Some of the indoor walk ways have a Ybor theme. Not to mention Friday night is college night($5 for a student ticket and dollar beers in the TBT party deck) I like the investments the team has made in fan experience and the community. If only they could get some better pitching. For more info on Tropicana Field check out http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/tb/ballpark/index.jsp