:cheers: Spain and Morocco to link via rail tunnel


Following an agreement signed in January 2004 between Morocco and Spain to build a 39 km (24 miles) rail tunnel under the strait of Gibraltar an international call for tender was launched by joint venture company Societe Nationale d'Etudes du Detroit de Gibraltar (Morocco) and SECEG (Spain).
The tender consists of drilling 7 boreholes for geological studies that will determine the depth and final route of the tunnel.

The Spanish and Moroccan governments have been undertaking negotiations to build the tunnel for over 20 years. Construction is due to start in 2008 and the overall cost of the project is estimated at 3 - 10 billion Euros. Both Morocco and Spain are investing several million Euros in intensive research studies and they are likely to seek the European Union's assistance for financial support. The final project will include the construction of two tunnels with a service tunnel in the middle to connect them and will be similar to the Channel Tunnel that links Britain to France. The two adjacent tunnels are planned between Punta Paloma (40km west of Gibraltar) and Punta Malabata, near Tangiers.

Kindest regards

Mustapha
0208 508 9905
www.propertyborders.com
Moroccan Hospitality With British Professionalism

They are allready doing test drillings!
But this would be like the third thread on this subject:p

they finished the testings according to this article


http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1143/straits3bk.gif (http://imageshack.us)



The decision was taken after technical studies confirmed the feasibility of the project.

The global cost of the project was estimated at 10 million Euros.

The studies, undertaken by the two public companies, the National Company of the Strait studies (SNED) and SECEGSA, concluded that a tunnel of 40 km should relate Tarifa in Spain with Malabata Region, near Tangier, Morocco.

About 28 km of the tunnel will be constructed under water, and the rest on each side of the Strait's ground.

The tunnel's construction will cost about four to five billion Euros, which will be paid by the EU, the concerned countries and private sector organisations.

The Spanish government expects the launching of the project at 2008 and its final completion at 2020.

For mor information
http://www.dipucadiz.es/observatorio/web/obs/cuerpo.asp?opc=526&opc2=Enlace%20Fijo%20por%20el%20Estrecho%20de%20Gibraltar

Very interesting news. First time I hear about this.

good news ( this will make a lot of marocan people in holland happy :P )

Would this be longer than the Channel Tunnel?

^^
No, it will be shorter, but on the other hand, it will be deeper in ocean floor than the Channel Tunnel.

excellente nouvelle donc le debut des travaux du tunnel sous la méditerrané va commencé en 2008? :)

oui, mais je sais pas combien de temps ils ont besoin de faire le premier tunnel, je crois 4,5 ans?

Oh je n'irai pas jusqu'a spéculer par rapport a une date, je reste assez septique de ce cote la, d'abord on parle d'un pont et puis mntnt d'un tunnel, qui et quoi croire ?

I would have imagined that Spain wouldnt be fond of the idea, in light of the mass illegal migration from northwest Africa into Spain. Wouldnt this increase that problem?

I would have imagined that Spain wouldnt be fond of the idea, in light of the mass illegal migration from northwest Africa into Spain. Wouldnt this increase that problem?

Well it's getting better now, due to the increased security by both the moroccan and spanish coast-guards, subsaharan illegal immigrants are trying to head to the canary islands through mauritania and senegal nowadays since those routes lack adequate security.

Y a t-il un site sur le projet?

^^
Oui, il y a un site sur cet project. Regarde ici: http://www.dipucadiz.es/observatori...0de%20Gibraltar
Mais cet site est en espanyol....
The site I posted gives information about this project. Thanks to Aicha.

And HakerB, spain is very fond about this idea. They were the one who came up with it and they are one of the biggest financiers of the project.

And dont worry about the illegal immigration. Crossing the strait of gibraltar illegal is nearly impossible. First you have to survive all the mrooccan soldiers patrolling allong the coast and secondly the spaniards have hi-tec radars and much stuff like that. They can watch every move made in the strait of Gibraltar. If something suspicious is found they can catch it within 5 minutes! The illegal immigration thru the Strait is impossible now. It has been quiet for a long time.
And I think the tunnel will not be an option for illegal immigration. I think there will be millitary patrolls on both side 24/7.

"And I think the tunnel will not be an option for illegal immigration. I think there will be millitary patrolls on both side 24/7."

If ever they elude the guards, how is the possibility of surviving at the deepest point of the tunnel?

How is the border controlled in Ceuta and Melilla? This question has nothing to do with the tunnel but someone mentioned immigration.

Anyways, I think it's really good that they do this tunnel. Andalucia has similarities with Morocco in my opinion.

How is the border controlled in Ceuta and Melilla? This question has nothing to do with the tunnel but someone mentioned immigration.

Anyways, I think it's really good that they do this tunnel. Andalucia has similarities with Morocco in my opinion.



It's heavily guarded especially on the Spanish side with fences .

If you can read spanish, click on this link:

http://www.tranvia.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=1465&forum=3

If you can read spanish, click on this link:

http://www.tranvia.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=1465&forum=3
it says that it is just for subscribed users

if you can copy and paste it will be better or if you canb translate it through altavista will be much better

ops! Sorry; try with this one, instead:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=123640&page=2&pp=20

The other is too long to be translated.

http://www.dipucadiz.es/observatorio/images/e_enlace2.jpg

http://es.geocities.com/margozi2000/images02/Estrecho.jpg

http://es.geocities.com/margozi2000/images02/Estrecho.jpg

The pic posted by Aícha shows shortest, but the deepest possible route for the proposed tunnel ("Ruta del Cañón", route of the canyon). The chosen option is the "Ruta del Umbral" (route of the threshold), longer but less deep.

http://www.dipucadiz.es/observatorio/images/e_imagen6.jpg

why a tunnel? a bridge isn't conceivable?

The idea of a bridge was proposed by the late king hassan II to have the longest suspended bridge between Morocco and Spain but after they did the studies , they found that a tunnel will be better and cheaper

I think the tunnel will be very beneficial to Morocco and Spain. It is basically the same idea as charging money for the passage of boats through the suez canal. It will make on land transport more interesting than boat, and also, it will make both Morocco and Spain the ultimate doors into Africa and Europe.

Im still confused about whether the time benefits because I believe that it takes 30-45 minutes by ferry to cross the strait, and thats the time period needed to travel 35miles right?

But all I am positive about is that this project will take a very long time before materializing due to its complexity

Wouldnt it be a high speed train tunnel? So there will be a highspeed track stretching from Marrakech to(via Casa, Rabat, Tanger, Tarifa, Sevilla, Cordoba, Madrid, Zaragoza, Barca, Montpelliers, Marseille, Avignon, Valence, Lyon, PAris, Amiens, Lille, Calais, Dover, London, Bruxelles, Anvers, Rotterdam, Liege, Cologne, Amsterdam???

why a tunnel? a bridge isn't conceivable?

I agree with

i d really wish a bridge to be constructed

it is much beautiful and sensual

a tunnel is underground and would not be seen from outside :)

The bridge would be soo big that painting and changing the lights would be very expensive and hard. And that are just two side effects.

Plus the risks of a bridge are higher as well as more expensive. There is much more steel required for the supports and ocean is extremely deep in the strait of gibraltar.

I'm not sure but maybe the wind could be a problem too.

Had you undergone sometimes una levantera?

¿Has padecido alguna vez una levantera?

No, I don't even know what that is...

A shot of the Strait of Gibraltar from atop "The Rock" in Gibraltar (Spain). The Rif Mountains of Morocco can be seen in the background

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Straitofgibraltar.jpg/800px-Straitofgibraltar.jpg

A group of American and British engineers have studied the feasibility of building a bridge to span the straits. Such a bridge would be of a combination suspension-truss design and would dwarf any existing bridge in height (over 900 metres) and length (15 km)

A shot of the Strait of Gibraltar from atop "The Rock" in Gibraltar (Spain). The Rif Mountains of Morocco can be seen in the background

As weird as it may seem that a Spaniard says this... Gibraltar is not Spain :) hehe.
Anyway, cool pic Redalinho, thanks!

A nice wiew of Yebel Musa from Yebel Tarik!

By the way, strait is more than 900 m deep in this point.


¡Bonita vista de Yebel Musa desde Yebel Tarik!

Por cierto, el estrecho tiene más de 900 m de profundidad en ese punto.

http://www.swissinfo.org/fre/a_la_une/detail/Gibraltar_le_grand_defi_d_un_ingenieur_suisse.html?siteSect=105&sid=7113958&cKey=1159518524000

C'est le bureau du Tessinois Giovanni Lombardi qui a été choisi pour construire le tunnel ferroviaire reliant l'Afrique et l'Europe par le détroit de Gibraltar.
L'achèvement des études préalables de ce projet hispano-marocain, d'une immense complexité, est prévu pour 2008.

Pour cet ambitieux projet, le bureau d'ingénieurs de Giovanni Lombardi, basé à Minusio, aux portes de Locarno, a été choisi parmi 14 autres concurrents.

Une décision qui tombe alors que la réflexion sur un tunnel reliant le Maroc et l'Espagne remonte à plus de 25 ans: c'est en 1980 déjà que la «Commission mixte de la liaison fixe maroco-espagnole» avait été chargée de ce dossier. Quant à la formulation technique du projet, elle date de 1996.

Plusieurs solutions ont été envisagées puis rejetées ces dernières années. Il faut dire que dans le détroit de Gibraltar, la profondeur de la mer atteint 300 mètres. Un pont ne peut donc pas y être construit, puisqu'il serait impossible de planter des piliers.

Une autre idée a dû être écartée: celle de monter, sous l'eau, des éléments de tunnel préfabriqués. Le fond du détroit est en effet instable et balayé par des courants trop forts. Un pont flottant ne ferait non plus pas l'affaire à cause de la navigation qui parcourt ce bras de mer...

C'est donc un tunnel ferroviaire, façon Eurotunnel, qui a finalement été retenu. A une profondeur de 400 à 600 mètres, la galerie mesurerait environ 40 kilomètres et relierait Tarifa à Tanger.

A la limite du faisable


«Ce n'est pas la ligne la plus courte, mais la plus idéale», explique Giovanni Lombardi, 80 ans, à Omar Gisler, de l'ATS. Mais, techniquement, le projet est à la limite du faisable.

La planification est pleine de points d'interrogation. Des prospections avaient été envisagées pour sonder la géologie du fond de la mer. Elles ont duré moins d'une semaine. Les bateaux utilisés à ces fins étaient ballotés par les puissants courants et ne parvenaient pas à se fixer aux endroits voulus.

Le projet de tunnel sous le détroit de Gibraltar est financé par deux entreprises, sises en Espagne et au Maroc. Giovanni Lombardi estime qu'il faudra entre quatre et cinq milliards d'euros (6,3 – 7,9 milliards de francs) pour mener à terme l'œuvre dont il rêve.

Questions pratiques


L'ingénieur tessinois (par ailleurs père du sénateur Filippo Lombardi) ne peut pas avancer de chiffres plus précis.

Pour l'heure, des questions pratiques occupent les ingénieurs qui travaillent à cette réalisation. Ainsi, il s'agira d'abord de construire un tube de service d'une largeur de 4,8 mètres qui sera ensuite divisé, en son milieu, par deux voies parallèles.

Cette première étape permettra aussi de savoir combien d'eau affluera dans l'œuvre. «Ainsi, dans le vieux tunnel ferroviaire du Gothard, il entrait 200 litres d'eau par seconde», explique Giovanni Lombardi.

Le tunnel sous la Manche, un jeu d'enfant


Dans les profondeurs du détroit de Gibraltar, la pression de l'eau est de 500 tonnes par mètre carré. Une installation de pompage adéquate doit donc être prévue. Il faut ajouter à cela que la zone est sismique. En 1755, un tremblement de terre avait ravagé cette région du sud de la péninsule ibérique et rayé Lisbonne de la carte.

En comparaison, la construction du tunnel sous la Manche à laquelle le bureau Lombardi a aussi mis la main, a été un jeu d'enfant, estime l'ingénieur de Minusio. «L'Eurotunnel est moins profond, la pression de l'eau y est moins forte et la roche plus solide», explique-t-il.

Le tunnel sous le détroit de Gibraltar est le projet le plus difficile auquel Giovanni Lombardi s'est attaqué. Mais il est persuadé d'en venir à bout: «sans optimisme, lance ce bouillant vieillard, on n'arrive à rien».

English translation:
http://www.swissinfo.org/xobix_media/images/keystone/2006/keyimg20060929_7114108_0.jpg
The Swiss Lombardi engineering firm has won the contract to design a railway tunnel between Europe and Africa running under the Strait of Gibraltar.

The company, one of 14 competing for the job, has one year to draw up the plans for one of the most complex projects of its kind ever, on the cards for over a quarter of a century.

A Spanish-Moroccan committee has been considering various options since 1980, not surprising since the difficulties faced by potential builders are a huge challenge. It was only in 2004 that the two countries' governments decided to go ahead.

A bridge was ruled out because of the depth of the strait. It would be impossible to build supporting pillars in 300 metres of water.

A floating bridge was also not an option because of the number of ships passing through the Gibraltar bottleneck. An underwater tunnel made out of prefabricated elements was considered unfeasible as well as the sea bottom is unstable and currents too strong.

If the project goes ahead, it will be a close cousin of the Eurotunnel that runs under the Channel between France and Britain. Running at depths of up to 600 metres, it will connect Tarifa in Spain to Tangiers in Morocco.

Giovanni Lombardi, the 80-year-old head of the engineering firm, says the planned 40-kilometre tunnel is not the shortest way of connecting the two continents, but simply the best. He adds though that it is just feasible.

Planning for the project will be difficult. Just figuring out the configuration of the seabed will be a challenge.

Ships sent out to prospect its geology had to give up after a week's work as they were unable to stay in a stable position because of the strong currents washing through the strait.

Public backing

Two publicly owned companies in Spain and Morocco are financing the project. Lombardi reckons it will cost up to €5 billion (SFr7.9 billion) to complete it, but cannot be more precise at this stage.

Preliminary studies should be finished by 2008. A 4.8-metre-wide service tunnel will be built first.

This tube should help the engineers figure how much water might leak into the tunnel. "In the old Gotthard rail tunnel under the Alps, 200 litres of water filter through every second," said Lombardi.

The pressure on the tunnel will be huge, approximately 500 tons per square metre, so powerful pumps will be needed to avoid it filling up with water.

Another problem is the risk of earthquakes in an active seismological zone. In 1755, an earthquake caused huge damage in the area and killed 50,000 people in the Portuguese capital Lisbon.

Comparatively speaking, building the Eurotunnel was much easier reckons Lombardi, who also worked on the Channel project. "Eurotunnel didn't go as deep, water pressure was lower and the rock was more solid," he added.

The Gibraltar project is Lombardi's biggest challenge so far, but he is confident he can overcome all the obstacles in his path. "If you aren't optimistic, you never achieve anything," he said.
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/detail/Swiss_plan_tunnel_under_Strait_of_Gibraltar.html?siteSect=105&sid=7118024&cKey=1159613651000

Sounds Impressing, I hope they will follow up on it all the way.

I think I also read somewhere that the winds on the strait are extremely rapid and it is another reason why the bridge option was left out.

The project cost is said to be around 4-5billion Euros. I dont think it is a final price, but given the help of the EU and other developmental agencies it should be very realizable.

Do i smell illegal immigration? hehe

Im not sure how the problem of illegal immigration would jeopardize or affect the building of the tunnel between Spain and Morocco.
Trade is a solution to illegal immigration since people are going to find jobs in their countries rather than emigrate as the goods of their countries are going to enter Europe more fluidly.

Now Im not sure whether you insinuate that all Morocco and Africa have to trade is clandestine migrants, which is an offensive remark.

Otro hilo sobre este asunto (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=171588)

Another thread about this subject (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=171588)

The problem on that thread is that it is solely in Spanish, unfortunately not everyone speaks spanish. And many are very interested in the subject.

It seems to me that someone was mentioning the risks of clandestine immigration and something about the North African population in Holland.

El problema de este Foro es que está todo en inglés; lamentablemente no todos en Marruecos o en España hablan inglés. Y muchos están muy interesados en él.

The problem on this Forum is that it is solely in English; unfortunately not everyone in Morocco or Spain speaks english. And many are very interested in it.

It is too bad to note that we can not combine a huge forum to discuss the matter. I have a feeling that the politicians in power now favor the project, but I truly hope that the political will , will last until the project is completed.

In terms of cost, I dont think 4-5billion is too much, especially knowing that it would only be ready by 2025. So if government can give 200-400million USD per year then it is doable.
This is not a huge investment given the massive infrastructure projects that Spain engages in. Plus EU help could be directed to the operation.
Spain and Morocco would be the centers of Africa-Europe trade, which will benefit both countries enormously.
I think the main problem would be the fear that clandestine immigration and terrorism falls falls in the equation.

By train from Europe to Africa - undersea tunnel project takes a leap forward

· Spain and Morocco set up engineering study project
· Major hurdles, but service could be running by 2025

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Friday October 20, 2006
The Guardian

The Strait of Gibraltar
The Strait of Gibraltar, linking Europe and Africa. Photograph: Jose Luis Roca/AFP/Getty Images

The excavation of a tunnel joining Europe and Africa deep below the Strait of Gibraltar could start as early as next year after Spain and Morocco commissioned preliminary engineering studies.

Veteran Swiss tunnel engineer Giovanni Lombardi has been called in by the governments of both countries to draw up a project outlining how work could proceed towards creating the only direct physical link between the two continents.

Exploratory tunnelling could start after his report, which will be based on recent detailed studies of the geological patterns under the strait, is handed in next year. "We are just beginning the work, but I would say this is more difficult than the Channel tunnel," Mr Lombardi told the Guardian yesterday.

"The main difference is the depth of the sea but the geological conditions are also different."

Actual construction of the 25-mile twin rail tunnel could take 15 years from when preliminary studies and the exploration tunnels were finished, Mr Giovanni said.

Spanish engineers involved in the project have said that if no major geological or technical problems arise rail passengers could be travelling to and from Africa by 2025.

It would be a twin rail tunnel with a service tunnel between and is projected to carry 9m passengers in the first year, rising to 11m after 10 years. It could also carry 8m tonnes of goods in 2025.

A final decision on whether the tunnel will be excavated, however, depends on both financing and political will. The border between Morocco and oil-rich Algeria is currently closed, for example, thereby reducing potential traffic.

There are no costings for the tunnel as yet, but estimates made several years ago put the minimum price at more than €5bn (£3.36bn). The 31 mile Channel Tunnel, although relatively easier to build, eventually cost £10bn.

If the tunnel to Africa was linked to the existing high speed rail line at the southern Spanish city of Seville the travel time between Madrid and Tangier could be as low as four hours.

Spain first began studying the idea of a transcontinental tunnel in the 1970s. A joint Spanish-Moroccan body was founded in 1991, inspired by the building of the Channel Tunnel, to start surveying the seabed under the strait.

Those studies have been hampered, however, by sea conditions in the strait.

Engineers have had to invent new boring methods in order to cope with the fierce underwater currents at a point where the Atlantic Ocean meets the Mediterranean Sea.

They have already decided that the tunnel cannot cross the narrowest part of the strait because, at 900 metres, it is too deep.

A rail tunnel at that point, between Spain's Punta Canales and Morocco's Cirea Point, would have to start many miles inland so that the gradient would not be too difficult for trains to climb.

The current proposed route for the new tunnel lies to the west, where the seabed is, at 300 metres, relatively shallow.

Even that is much deeper, however, than the Channel Tunnel where the sea bed lies just 50 metres below the waves. As a result, the gently sloping tunnels will emerge at least three miles inland from the coast on either side.

They will cross the African coastline under the area around Malabata Point, near Tangier, and reach European soil somewhere under Spain's Punta Paloma.

The strong currents and depth mean that bridges have been ruled out as a way of connecting the two continents.

Some engineers, however, favour the idea of building a huge barrage that would also control water flow into and out of the Mediterranean.

The geological layers under the Strait of Gibraltar are horizontal, meaning the tunnel has to cross through many different rock strata. "That is quite a complex geological situation," said Mr Lombardi.

Underwater clay deposits that have recently been discovered near the Moroccan coast have further complicated the project.

Mr Lombardi said he would also have to take into account a history of earthquakes in the region, including the 1960 quake in the Moroccan city of Agadir and the 1755 quake centred near Lisbon, Portugal.

Mr Lombardi, aged 80, has built many tunnels in Switzerland and was recently called in to redesign the Mont Blanc tunnel after 41 people died in a fire there in 1999.

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1927270,00.html

I think they're going to regret cuz in a couple of years they will have to build a dam and probably they will build a highway on it too, I think.

I dont think they will end up building the dam. That would be at an exorbitant cost that Morocco does not have the money for. Plus just imagine building a dam in the middle of the ocean...
Now the way I see it is that the project should be enouraged. It will help Morocco become more recognized in globally and reachable. Also it would strengthen the country's leadership on the continent.
I think that the biggest threat would be environmental as it would pollute the waters...But just imagine Madrid-Tangiers in 4hrs by train thats amazing. Everyone would like to visit the country.
Plus for people that are proponents of a closer association with the EU, this is the perfect situation since it would place Morocco within the European rail system and trade.

The problem is that we are talking of a project to be concluded in 2025. That is a very long time period.
I think the government can finance it easily by delegating it to third parties once they pay the price such as Gulf countries. They have great amounts of money and are looking for very safe and low return long term investment, so this is where we come in.
I know they have recently bought the rights to sell British water and sanitary services for multiple billion dollars, I dont see why they wouldnt be interested in this one. Would it be too profitable? :)

The dam will eventually be build because of global warming.

The dam will eventually be build because of global warming.

The way I see it is that building a bridge is a way to neutralize the extremely rapid currents that exist in the connection between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic.
This location has extreme ocean and air currents that make it difficult to build the tunnel as well as can threaten the stability of the tunnel when in the bottom of the sea surface.
So the dam would prevent the currents from hitting that part of the tunnel.

As for global warming I assume you are talking about the rise of sea levels. I dont see how a dam canlower and forestall the rise of sea level. Secondly there are no icebergs next to the area, so the effect of melting icebergs will be extremely gradual.

Well,I can just say that I have readed it somewhere.

Well,I can just say that I have readed it somewhere.

Yeah, I keep reading all kinds of stuff.. the trick is to reason before accepting the ideas. Either way I am glad that this project has so much more exposure and talking about it.
It shows that it is on the right track to materializing, even though it will be in couple decades.

IT SEEMS 2 BE A GREAT PRJECT

BUT WHAT IS THE COMPLETION DATE ?

OR .. WHAT IS START DATE ?????



http://thespoke.net/photos/hashamhas/default.aspx

IT SEEMS 2 BE A GREAT PRJECT

BUT WHAT IS THE COMPLETION DATE ?

OR .. WHAT IS START DATE ?????



http://thespoke.net/photos/hashamhas/default.aspx


They have already started financing the study and delegated it to a consortium of Swiss, American, Spanish-Moroccan group.
The project is supposed to be completed by 2025.
So its going to take a long time.

You can find everything about the bridge option in MegaConstructions program TV (Discovery Channel or National Geographic). This bridge is really amazing and according to this program TV the only problem would be the cost because the other problems can be solved.

I'm fed up with crossing the strait by ferry!

http://es.geocities.com/margozi2000/images02/Estrecho.jpg

The governments of Spain and Morocco have taken a further step towards the building of a rail tunnel that will connect Europe and Africa, in what will be a historic technological feat. The Spanish Minister of Development Francisco Alvarez Cascos was quoted in Arabic News.com as stating that this tunnel will be “in the 21st century what the Suez Canal was in the 19th century and what the Panama Canal was in the 20th century.”

By the time such a tunnel is in place a continuous rail link between the north of Scotland and Africa would be possible.

The agreement signed by Cascos and Moroccan Minister of Equipment and Transport Karim Ghellab is for a programme of engineering tests and studies and it is believed that digging under the strait could begin in five years time. According to the Spanish Transport Minister 27 million euros will be invested in this preliminary stage of geological survey by each of the two countries over the next three years.

It is thought that the tunnel will be 24 miles long, of which 17 miles will lie under the narrow and turbulent waters of the strait that connects the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea. It will descend between 100 and 300 metres under the sea. The most suitable route has initially been established as that between Punta Paloma, 40 kilometres west of Gibraltar, and Punta Malabata, near the Moroccan city of Tangiers. A shorter route to the east that would be only about 12 miles has been dismissed, as it would require boring 900 metres below sea level. The final route and depth will be decided only after detailed geological studies.

The tunnel will be made up of two rail tunnels and one service tunnel in the middle connecting the two, similar to the Channel Tunnel running between Britain and France. The service tunnel will be the first to be built and work could begin in 2008. Spain has already bored an experimental tunnel 560 metres long. Core samples of the rock beneath the strait will be taken in order to develop a picture of its geology. A similar experiment on the Moroccan side was sunk to 300 metres.

A joint committee was set up at the beginning of December between the two nations, which approved the 2004-2006 action plan and the budget of 27 million euros. Estimates of the final cost of the tunnel vary between three and 10 billion euros. Morocco and Spain will seek financial assistance from the European Union for research and infrastructure.

The project to build a rail tunnel linking Europe and Africa was first discussed between Spain and Morocco in the 1980s and several meetings have taken place since, some under the auspices of the United Nations. The linking of the two continents would be a major achievement that would enable the development of communications, trade and cooperation to an unprecedented level. However, this is not a project intended to benefit humanity: it is a commercial enterprise. As such, all manner of new conflicts between the nations involved and those who will want to be involved will emerge, particularly over control of the Arab Magreb, a union of Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Mauritania and Algeria, by the European countries.

Tensions between Spain and Morocco have a long history, particularly over the sovereignty of Western Sahara, a Spanish former colony, which Morocco annexed in 1975. Morocco accuses Spain of supporting the Polisario Front independence movement and it is blocking the UN from approving Morocco’s claim to sovereignty. Morocco insists on the principle of territorial integrity, while Spain supports a referendum on self-determination.

These tensions have intensified in the last few years, with continuing disputes about immigration, farming and the sovereignty of the two Spanish enclaves on African soil, Ceuta and Melilla, as well as some small islands. Just a year and a half ago there was an armed exchange when Spanish marines forcibly evicted some Moroccan soldiers from the island of Perejil, which both countries claim. Diplomatic relations came to a halt when Spain withdrew its ambassador and then Morocco withdrew its ambassador.

In addition Spain wants to prospect for oil in the waters between Morocco’s Atlantic coast and the Spanish Canary Islands. Spain also blames Morocco for the collapse of the European Union Agreement that allowed Spain to fish in Morocco’s rich waters.

The two countries have made an effort to improve their relations. Some weeks ago a Spain-Morocco summit took place in Marraquech, which was attended by a delegation from Spain headed by Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. The summit reached what was described as “the biggest economic cooperation agreement in Spain’s history”. Spain provided $476 million, $279 million of which will be used to finance projects by Spanish companies. Spain is the second biggest market for Morocco’s exports after France and its second biggest investor.

Two other agreements were signed concerning employment and the reestablishment of cultural relations. This was followed this month by an agreement on joint patrols against illegal immigrants and for Spain’s right to deport hundreds of unaccompanied minors held in detention centres back to Morocco, as well as cooperation against terrorism.

Already rightist forces are beginning to air their opposition to the tunnel, spreading fears of Spain being overtaken by “illegal immigrants”, citing Britain’s problems over the Channel Tunnel. It is believed that half a million people attempt to cross the strait every year into Spain as a route to the rest of Europe. Many of them drown when the small badly constructed boats capsize.

Additionally, racist objections are voiced about the danger of Spain being invaded by terrorists, as the tunnel will connect directly with a Muslim country.

I think it would be a good way to increase exchange between West Africa and Western Europe. Although only couple km apart, people from both sides of the mediterranean experience a very different lifestyle. Hopefully it will try to balance things out and have the south more developed and liberal.

Its definelty benificial--but physically possible? I dont think so. The depth is too great--which would mean that the tunnel would be able to withstand great pressures and seismic activities. If a bridge will be built, it will have to take into account the wave movement, weather, seismic activities, ship movement, and cost. Therefore, it is something that is not possible in our lifetime, but at least worth dreaming about.

Its definelty benificial--but physically possible? I dont think so. The depth is too great--which would mean that the tunnel would be able to withstand great pressures and seismic activities. If a bridge will be built, it will have to take into account the wave movement, weather, seismic activities, ship movement, and cost. Therefore, it is something that is not possible in our lifetime, but at least worth dreaming about.

Its true that it is a seismic area, and would consequently make things more difficult. But I would not go as far as saying that it would be impossible. The interesting thing is that it will have EU support and hence will not face many financing problems.
Japan after all is largely seismic, and there are buildings everywhere. I think that the tunnel will have to be extremely big and multiple layers in order to minimize the prospect of a breakdown/crack of the tunnel. The Eurotunnel (between France and England) is longer than the distance required for the Africa-Europe one. But of course, it probably does not have seismic factor to worry about.
I think that if the political will is available then the project will take place. The present Spanish government and corporations are interested in increasing cooperation with Africa, hence this project is closer to realization than ever.
But of course, the question is whether it will be enough.

Theoretically it should be possible to build. It doesn't sound more challenging than the Seikan tunnel in Japan.

^^or the "chunnel" between UK and France...iF this is accross of Morocco and Spain, Strait of Gibraltar, theoretically, yes, it shoulndt be that hard to do
good ideaa too

^^sorry someone posted the Euro tunnel already, my baad

http://img210.exs.cx/img210/9885/puentegibraltar8tx.jpg


http://www.tdrinc.com/images/photos/large/gib010.jpg

^^^It maybe feasible not its not realistic and not economically viable.

Key Facts

Purpose: The tunnel will be solely used as a rail road connection. No cars and trucks would use the facility due to the difficulty of cleaning the air when 300 meters deep.

Distance: Although only 14km (9miles) separate Spain from Morocco, the twin rail tunnel would be 40km long. Hence, it will be longer than the Eurotunnel which is 30km long.

Depth: The depth will be 300meters. The closest connection between both continents is only 14km but has a depth of 900meters. Hence the latter was ruled out, and the 40km tunnel was adopted since it will only be 300m deep.

Connecting Sites: The tunnel will link Cape Malabata near Tangier with Punta Paloma 40km west of Gibraltar.

Dates: Project should be operational after 15years of construction: 2025.
Starting date is assumed to be 2008.

Cost: Old estimates hint on 5billion Euros.

Owners: Spanish and Moroccan government. EU will assist the project financially.

Passengers: It is projected to carry 9 million passengers in the first year of operation, which is expected to start in 2025

A real waste of money... it's way too much money considering the benefits it could give, definitely not worth it. 5 billion € , for Christ sakes... don't we have better things to do with that money?
And if the point is to increase cooperation and trade with Africa, I think those 5 billion € could be spent in a more productive way.

@Redalinho: Cascos was only a minister years ago...

A real waste of money... it's way too much money considering the benefits it could give, definitely not worth it. 5 billion € , for Christ sakes... don't we have better things to do with that money?
And if the point is to increase cooperation and trade with Africa, I think those 5 billion € could be spent in a more productive way.

I think that immigration and development problems are to a large extent a consequence of a lack of infrastructures that allow different economies to interact and cooperate. Once auspicious business environment and conditions exist in markets, then investment will increase. Many economies do not benefit from FDIs because they are uncompetitive and have infrastructural deficits for businessmen to settle in. Example: Once the common market, and common EU regulations were established, intra-European trade and richness increased enormously...and once poor countries became much richer due to the access to a market of over 300million consumers.

Governments should provide the necessary infrastructures and setting for companies to create business/economic opportunities. It is the private sector's role to go on from there.

I personally dont think it is a large amount of money. History has shown that giving direct financial aid to African and developing states was not used to reduce inequalities, but often to sustain them through corrupt leaders...
Either way, the EU provides billions of Euros of aid annually to African states, the next 15yrs will have part of this budget allocated to this tunnel.

Economically: Well access to the tunnel will most probably be a source of income for Moroccan/Spanish governments. It is similar to the relationship of Egypt and its Suez canal, where a large part of its hard currency derives from these payments. Of course, it will probably not be to the same proportion, but nevertheless, it could be very helpful for the emergence of southern economies.
Africa after all, has a lot of resources and it will definitely benefit from having a cheaper way to transport it to the EU. It may also encourage other African states to connect to the Tripoli-Tunis-Algeirs-Tangiers-Nouadhibou-Dakar road/highway. This intensification of infrastructures is the only way to create riches for African states, as their respective private sectors will emerge.

History has shown that giving direct financial aid to African and developing states was not used to reduce inequalities, but often to sustain them through corrupt leaders...
Either way, the EU provides billions of Euros of aid annually to African states, the next 15yrs will have part of this budget allocated to this tunnel.

Yes you're right, I also believe there needs to be a change in the strategy, because direct financial aid, as you said, is not used efficiently. However, I'm not sure this tunnel is needed... and as for Morocco's needs... what good can do a state of art new stunning development if the infrastructure in the country is still under developed... wouldn't it be better to invest in improving the infrastructure in Morocco? High speed train, better roads and highways... new industrial parks... I think that would actually help developing Morocco, not the tunnel.

wow!!

Yes you're right, I also believe there needs to be a change in the strategy, because direct financial aid, as you said, is not used efficiently. However, I'm not sure this tunnel is needed... and as for Morocco's needs... what good can do a state of art new stunning development if the infrastructure in the country is still under developed... wouldn't it be better to invest in improving the infrastructure in Morocco? High speed train, better roads and highways... new industrial parks... I think that would actually help developing Morocco, not the tunnel.

It is true that it is a high tech, state of the art technology. The truth is that the infrastructures in Morocco are not that bad. There is huge investment in the field (roads, ports....), in my view, much more than most African states.
There is also a project of a high speed train from Tangiers-Casablanca-Marrakech-Agadir, I believe all of this in the short-medium term.
The tunnel project is a long term project since we are talking about 2025. If the infrastructures continue at the same pace for Morocco, then it will be only logical to establish the tunnel.
A bridge would have been less provocaticve, but the depth and wind made it difficult to realize. After all, Turkey established bridges connecting the bosphorous much before Morocco considered the option, in a time when it was not as developed.
As a result, it is difficult to argue what are the preferable infrastructures that should be first established, since it is very debatable. Nevertheless, it is undoubtable that it will create more cooperation between Western Europe and West Africa. This is an honorable goal that may have very positive goals as it will increase employment, and perhaps reduce immigration problems...

In view of all the amazing projects developed in Dubai and other states that can be seen on the Dubai SSC... I dont think this tunnel is that thought provoking, especially as we are living in a period of high innovation and creation.
While a tunnel under water may be thought of as provokative presently, it will probably not be the case in 15 years.

I have too many concerns about being linked to Morocco by a tunnel... and by the way, as for Moroccan infrastructure... well, saying "more than most African states" doesn't mean a lot. Some people (I know what many Moroccan forumers are like) will take my posts as anti Moroccan, racist or who knows what, but all I'm saying is that Morocco should have other priorities, not this tunnel.

I have too many concerns about being linked to Morocco by a tunnel... and by the way, as for Moroccan infrastructure... well, saying "more than most African states" doesn't mean a lot. Some people (I know what many Moroccan forumers are like) will take my posts as anti Moroccan, racist or who knows what, but all I'm saying is that Morocco should have other priorities, not this tunnel.

Its too bad you take it that way. "too many concerns about being linked to Morocco by a tunnel." I agree that there are a lot of problems and misunderstandings between Moroccans and Spaniards, but the truth is that whether we want it or not, we are neighbours.
There is nothing we can do about geography, and no reason to not face reality as it is. I am generally optimistic, and I believe that multiculturalism can be a source of richness and creativity. I understand that many Moroccans have caused problems in the past in Spain...and there are still remaining conflicts between both states.

But I truly believe that it goes beyond just a tunnel between Morocco and Spain, it is about a rapprochement between Africa and Europe. Whatever bilateral problems between Morocco and Spain are, I think we should surpass them and look into ways to help the African continent through a codevelopment strategy.

But I truly believe that it goes beyond just a tunnel between Morocco and Spain, it is about a rapprochement between Africa and Europe. Whatever bilateral problems between Morocco and Spain are, I think we should surpass them and look into ways to help the African continent through a codevelopment strategy.

It's very naive to believe a tunnel could be of so much help to the development of Africa, and I think the tunnel could bring more problems to Europe than benefits.
About clandestine inmigration, someone posted that even if inmigrants sneaked into the tunnel avoiding the police controls, they wouldn't make it through the tunnel and wouldn't come to the other side... how can that be comforting to anyone? :ohno: It would be horrible to have people dying, asfixiated, in that tunnel...

This isn't 'news': the quoted article is over 3 years old...

I think it's an interesting project, but technically not feasible. A bridge would be a better idea - with another benefit: a bridge could accommodate car traffic as well. And since most Moroccans travel to and fro by car...

It's very naive to believe a tunnel could be of so much help to the development of Africa, and I think the tunnel could bring more problems to Europe than benefits.
About clandestine inmigration, someone posted that even if he linmigrants sneaked into the tunnel avoiding the police controls, they wouldn't make it through the tunnel and wouldn't come to the other side... how can that be comforting to anyone? :ohno: It would be horrible to have people dying, asfixiated, in that tunnel...

Maybe you are right. A tunnel will not make drastic changes and amelioration of the life of millions in Africa. I still feel that it provides the condition for people to do trade though, to the same extent that lower customs tax can allow easier access of African products to Europe (agriculture, cotton...)
After all no small thing can make a radical change. Nevertheless, it can create a rolling effect and cause more investment...

Personally, I think that I am largely supporting the project because it will be a worldwide accomplishment that Morocco (and perhaps Spain) can brag about. Perhaps you would say that it is not worth the amount, but I think its worth the effort.

As for people dying... well they are dying anyways trying to reach Spain. I do not think there is a difference between dying drowning or asphyxiated. I dont think one type of death is better than the other. The solution is to actually help Africa with development and connect it to the world economy. It is for this reason that a tunnel/passage that can fluidify merchandise,human mvmt is a positive and honorable project.
As in all the rest of Africa, most people just want to emigrate to Europe, mainly because they do not have the conditions to sustain themselves in their countries. Presently, any project sought to aid EU-Africa relations through rapprochement is a good thing. I hope this project passes, and many others as well.
As for being connected to Morocco: there are pipelines going Algeria-Morocco-Spain, and Algeria-Spain carrying large amounts of gaz daily. Spain then large amounts of money and cheap gaz as it fulfills Spanish and Eu demands for gaz. I mean here you are connected with those countries as well, and its been a while...nevertheless, you never complain. As you can see its not always that bad, it might be very profitable that is if we first have the courage to try.

Personally, I think that I am largely supporting the project because it will be a worldwide accomplishment that Morocco (and perhaps Spain) can brag about. Perhaps you would say that it is not worth the amount, but I think its worth the effort .

Well... unlike in other parts of the world, in Europe if we're going to spend 5 billion € in a project it's not to brag and call the world attention, we need to make sure it's sustainable and really needed.


As for people dying... well they are dying anyways trying to reach Spain. I do not think there is a difference between dying drowning or asphyxiated. I dont think one type of death is better than the other
Of course that was not my point, and I hope I didn't sound cold hearted or frivolous cos nothing was further of my intention than talking so lightly about such a topic, I was just commenting on what some forumer said, explaining that cos of the length of the tunnel, even if inmigrants tried to cross it, they wouldn't make it. I was thinking to myself that's not the way I'd like massive inmigration to stop, not by letting people die (as it's also happening now, sadly).

I think it would be a good way to increase exchange between West Africa and Western Europe. Although only couple km apart, people from both sides of the mediterranean experience a very different lifestyle. Hopefully it will try to balance things out and have the south more developed and liberal.


On a side the poor Maghrebian and African who must beg to have a visa and on another side the European rich person who return to Morocco as they want and when they want! during this time the Morrocans will be able to always risk their life while swimming across the strait of gilbraltar , alas!

On a side the poor Maghrebian and African who must beg to have a visa and on another side the European rich person who return to Morocco as they want and when they want! during this time the Morrocans will be able to always risk their life while swimming across the strait of gilbraltar , alas!

Yep that it is true JimJohn. But I dont think that the development differential should dissuade economic cooperation between both sides. Afterall, the Mexico-US borders also held one of the greatest inequality levels of the world between both borders but today the flowing investment from US and connections (although theres a project for wall, the truth is that trade between both parties exploded once the political will for NAFTA was strong) make it much lower.

this would be a :crazy: tunnel

Well... unlike in other parts of the world, in Europe if we're going to spend 5 billion € in a project it's not to brag and call the world attention, we need to make sure it's sustainable and really needed.

I did not suggest that we are just throwing 5billion dollars in the air. Given the pioneer nature of the project, the sustainability and need of the project can not be totally found out before the project is realized.
The Eurotunnel, Saudi-Bahrain bridge... are connections between countries with relatively similar levels of development. Hence, a comparison might be irrelevant.
Economic logic and potential of the Tunnel
While I can not speculate on its success/failure, I think that given the low development of North and Western Africa, Western Europe will have a better access to these emerging markets.
Another positive effect is that the rest of the Maghreb and Western Africa will be better connected infrastructurally. This makes provides a larger market for businessmen and may lead to the creation a homogeneous bloc between these member states.
States will judge that it is in their interest to have roads going from Senegal to Tangiers (in the process of work) to Oujda and across algeria (East-West road, which costs 12billion dollars to connect the Moroccan borders with Tunisian by 2010/2) and finally Tunisia to Libya.
Merchandise from all these locations can use the EU-Africa tunnel.

You may mention that ports can do the same thing, but the truth is that most ports are very expensive since they lack the necessary economies of scale to offer cheaper prices. Similarly, most of the time there are no direct routes from African ports to their actual destination, this requires multiple transshipments consequently increasing the time frame and "economic real" distance.
Direct Effect
As a result, I personally believe that the EU-Africa tunnel will make African goods more competitive due to shipment costs. Hence increasing the opportunities for Africans in their countries and hence possibly hindering clandestine immigration...

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/01/27/PH2007012701337.jpg

A 'Chunnel' for Spain and Morocco
High-Speed Train Line Below Strait of Gibraltar Gains Traction

By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, January 28, 2007; Page A15

TANGIER, Morocco -- From the bustling waterfront of this African port city, Europe appears tantalizingly close: The coast of Spain shows on the horizon just nine miles away. Despite decades of dreaming, no one has been able to bridge the physical divide that opened between the two continents more than 5 million years ago, forming the geological bottleneck to the Mediterranean Sea.

In recent months, however, the governments of Morocco and Spain have taken significant steps to move forward with plans to bore a railroad under the muddy bottom of the Strait of Gibraltar. If built, the project would rank among the world's most ambitious and complex civil engineering feats, alongside the Panama Canal and the Channel Tunnel between Britain and France.

From Morocco's city of Tangier, Spain is just nine miles away. Engineers hope the planned link could be done by 2025.

A Gibraltar transportation link has adorned official drawing boards for a quarter-century. After years of slow-moving studies and geological tests, Spain and Morocco gave the project fresh momentum last fall by hiring a Swiss engineering firm to draft blueprints for an underwater rail route. Numerous obstacles remain, and a final decision on whether to build is still a few years away, but optimistic engineers say the project could be completed by 2025.

Government officials on both sides of the Mediterranean say the tunnel would give the economies of southern Europe and North Africa an enormous boost. But the project is being driven at least as much by intangible benefits: the prospect of uniting two continents that culturally and socially remain a world apart despite their geographic proximity.

"We've already done a tremendous amount of work to make this dream come true, to go from an idea -- a concept that is just philosophical -- into something we can transform into reality," said Karim Ghellab, Morocco's minister of transportation. "It's not easy to predict a date yet, but it is a project that will happen."

Ghellab envisions a day when commuters will board a high-speed train in Seville, in southern Spain, at 8 a.m. and arrive at their workplaces in Tangier by 9:30.

Next stop, 90 minutes later: Casablanca, followed by the bazaars of Marrakech slightly more than an hour after that. Today, such a trip by ferry and rail would take at least three times as long. "It will completely change our world," Ghellab said.

Like the Channel Tunnel, the Gibraltar project would consist of twin tracks in parallel tunnels, with a service tunnel in between. But engineers said the technical challenges would far surpass those encountered in constructing the "Chunnel," which opened in 1994.

For starters, the water is exponentially deeper: nearly 3,000 feet at the shortest route across the strait, compared with just 200 feet in the channel. As a result, engineers have mapped out a different path, from Cape Malabata, Morocco, to Punta Paloma, Spain, that would run twice as far across the strait but through shallower water -- a still daunting 985 feet below sea level.

Compounding the problem is that the seabed around Gibraltar is much more permeable than the hard-chalk rock under the channel, which would require engineers to push the tunnel down by another 300 feet or so. The water pressure at that depth means the tunnel would leak heavily, no matter how well it was constructed, said Andrea Panciera, chief project engineer with Lombardi Engineering Ltd., the Swiss firm that is designing the Gibraltar link.

"This is the biggest difficulty," he said. "We have to go deep into the seabed, which is very, very soft, with a lot of water pressure on top of that."

Officials in Spain and Morocco said their governments are committed to the tunnels but acknowledged that engineering and cost hurdles won't be easy to overcome.

"The engineers will always tell you everything is possible, it's just a question of more money," said Ricardo Diaz, secretary general of the Spanish government agency that oversees the project with its Moroccan partners. "But there is one very important piece of information: the geology, which on this land is a tormented, very difficult geography, not like the Channel Tunnel or other tunnels."

Also looming large is the red ink incurred by the Chunnel. Private investors, who paid the bulk of the $20 billion price tag, have suffered heavy losses; the operator, Eurotunnel, has verged on bankruptcy for years.

From Morocco's city of Tangier, Spain is just nine miles away. Engineers hope the planned link could be done by 2025.
From Morocco's city of Tangier, Spain is just nine miles away. Engineers hope the planned link could be done by 2025. (By Joachim Ladefoged -- Associated Press)
While neither Moroccan nor Spanish officials have given a bottom-line estimate for their project, private analysts said it could cost $6.5 billion to $13 billion. The two nations said that they are a long way from resolving financing details but that they hope to rely heavily on the European Union and the private sector.

In some ways, a tunnel would mirror changes that are already taking place in the form of increased trade and immigration between Europe and North Africa.

The number of Moroccan immigrants in Spain has soared in recent years; more than 500,000 live there legally, according to official statistics, while many more are undocumented residents. At the same time, droves of Europeans are rediscovering the charms of Morocco, a former Spanish and French colony that won independence in 1956. Morocco hopes to attract 10 million tourists by 2010, up from the record 6 million who visited in 2005.

Crowds pack the passenger ferries that shuttle between Tangier and Algeciras, Spain, especially in the summer, when seasonal workers travel back and forth. Mohammed Chatt, who runs a travel agency outside the port's gates in Tangier, said he doesn't expect the tunnel to be built quickly but has no doubt that millions of people would use it.

"Obviously, it would be very successful," he said. "If there was a tunnel, you could get on the train and just go. And if you consider the tunnel under the English Channel, well, lots of people said that would never be built, either."

Special correspondent Jennifer Green in Madrid contributed to this report.

LOL why a chunnell?? thats for the english channell

it should be...aa.... idunnoo
straitell?....:crazy:

Morocco, Spain taking steps toward tunnel

By Craig Whitlock
The Washington Post

TANGIER, Morocco — From the bustling waterfront of this African port city, Europe appears tantalizingly close: The coast of Spain shows on the horizon just nine miles away. Despite decades of dreaming, no one has been able to bridge the physical divide that opened between the two continents more than 5 million years ago, forming the geological bottleneck to the Mediterranean Sea.
In recent months, however, the governments of Morocco and Spain have taken significant steps to move forward with plans to bore a railroad under the muddy bottom of the Strait of Gibraltar. If built, the project would rank among the world's most ambitious and complex civil-engineering feats, alongside the Panama Canal and the Channel Tunnel between Britain and France.
A Gibraltar transportation link has adorned official drawing boards for a quarter-century. After years of slow-moving studies and geological tests, Spain and Morocco gave the project fresh momentum last fall by hiring a Swiss engineering firm to draft blueprints for an underwater rail route. Numerous obstacles remain, and a final decision on whether to build is still a few years away, but optimistic engineers say the project could be completed by 2025.
Government officials on both sides of the Mediterranean say the tunnel would give the economies of southern Europe and North Africa an enormous boost. But the project is being driven at least as much by intangible benefits: the prospect of uniting two continents that culturally and socially remain a world apart despite their geographic proximity.
"We've already done a tremendous amount of work to make this dream come true, to go from an idea -- a concept that is just philosophical -- into something we can transform into reality," said Karim Ghellab, Morocco's minister of transportation. "It's not easy to predict a date yet, but it is a project that will happen."
"It will completely change our world," Ghellab said.
Like the Channel Tunnel, the Gibraltar project would consist of twin tracks in parallel tunnels, with a service tunnel in between. But engineers said the technical challenges would far surpass those encountered in constructing the "Chunnel," which opened in 1994.
For starters, the water is exponentially deeper: nearly 3,000 feet at the shortest route across the strait, compared with just 200 feet in the channel. As a result, engineers have mapped out a different path, from Cape Malabata, Morocco, to Punta Paloma, Spain, that would run twice as far across the strait but through shallower water -- a still daunting 985 feet below sea level.
Compounding the problem is that the seabed around Gibraltar is much more permeable than the hard-chalk rock under the channel, which would require engineers to push the tunnel down by another 300 feet or so. The water pressure at that depth means the tunnel would leak heavily, no matter how well it was constructed, said Andrea Panciera, chief project engineer with Lombardi Engineering, the Swiss firm that is designing the Gibraltar link.
"This is the biggest difficulty," he said. "We have to go deep into the seabed, which is very, very soft, with a lot of water pressure on top of that."



Officials in Spain and Morocco said their governments are committed to the tunnels but acknowledged that engineering and cost hurdles won't be easy to overcome.
"The engineers will always tell you everything is possible, it's just a question of more money," said Ricardo Diaz, secretary general of the Spanish government agency that oversees the project with its Moroccan partners. "But there is one very important piece of information: the geology, which on this land is a tormented, very difficult geography, not like the Channel Tunnel or other tunnels."
Also looming large is the red ink incurred by the Chunnel. Private investors, who paid the bulk of the $20 billion price tag, have suffered heavy losses; the operator, Eurotunnel, has verged on bankruptcy for years.
While neither Moroccan nor Spanish officials have given a bottom-line estimate for their project, private analysts said it could cost $6.5 billion to $13 billion. The two nations said that they are a long way from resolving financing details but that they hope to rely heavily on the European Union and the private sector.
In some ways, a tunnel would mirror changes that are already taking place in the form of increased trade and immigration between Europe and North Africa.
The number of Moroccan immigrants in Spain has soared in recent years; more than 500,000 live there legally, according to official statistics, while many more are undocumented residents. At the same time, droves of Europeans are rediscovering the charms of Morocco, a former Spanish and French colony that won independence in 1956. Morocco hopes to attract 10 million tourists by 2010, up from the record 6 million who visited in 2005.
Crowds pack the passenger ferries that shuttle between Tangier and Algeciras, Spain, especially in the summer, when seasonal workers travel back and forth. Mohammed Chatt, who runs a travel agency outside the port's gates in Tangier, said he doesn't expect the tunnel to be built quickly but has no doubt that millions of people would use it.
"Obviously, it would be very successful," he said. "If there was a tunnel, you could get on the train and just go. And if you consider the tunnel under the English Channel, well, lots of people said that would never be built, either."
Copyright © The Seattle Times Company



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003544736_gibraltar28.html?syndication=rss

LOL why a chunnell?? thats for the english channell

it should be...aa.... idunnoo
straitell?....:crazy:

I guess they wanted to play on the two key words: channel and tunnel. Since it is a mix of both then I guess they called it that way.
I guess its kinda creative and serves the journalist goal to attract larger audience.

^^ The name 'chunnel' is the un-official nomenclature for the present Channel Tunnel...you're giving all the credit to the wrong guy ;)

Tunnel linking Europe and Africa inches closer



The dream of a tunnel between Africa and Europe is coming closer to reality, but it may be another 20 years before you can hop on the fast train at Seville and disembark in Tangier 90 minutes later.

After decades of plans and geological tests, the governments of both Spain and Morocco are now keen to push ahead with a twin-track rail tunnel linking the two countries. Madrid and Rabat gave the project a boost late last year when they contracted a French, Spanish, Moroccan and Swiss consortium to draw up fresh blueprints for the under-sea tunnel. Preliminary work could begin this year, following a report on the complex geology of the Strait of Gibraltar.

The technical obstacles are formidable. "It's a challenge without precedent in the construction of large-scale infrastructure, pushing the limit of what is technically viable," said Giovanni Lombardi, the head of the participating Swiss company Lombardi Engineering. "The Channel Tunnel was child's play in comparison. The depth of the Channel, and the pressure of water there, is much less; marine currents are much weaker and the rock more solid."

Morocco and Spain are separated at the narrowest point by only nine miles. The opposite coastline is so clearly visible across the strip of Mediterranean that you imagine a bridge would span the gap easily. But the bridge option was discarded years ago - it would have needed 900-metre supports, and would not have withstood the fearsome winds and currents that lash the Mediterranean bottleneck.

Nor will the proposed tunnel join the two continents at the narrowest point. The Strait plunges to nearly 1,000 metres in depth, so a longer, shallower tunnel descending to only 300 metres is planned. It would run from Morocco's Cape Malabata, near Tangier, to Punta Paloma near Cadiz in Spain, an underwater stretch of some 28km. With gently sloping approaches on either side, the full length of the tunnel will be 40km.

Compounding the difficulties, however, is the seabed around Gibraltar, which is made of shifting sands. The tunnel must run deep beneath the seabed.

Rabat is particularly keen on the project, seeing a fixed link as tangible evidence that the country is closer to Europe. "We've done a tremendous amount of work to make this dream come true, to go from an idea into something we can transform into reality," said Karim Ghellab, Morocco's Transport minister, this week. "It's hard to predict a date, but it's a project that will happen."

No one has put a figure on the final cost, though estimates range from €6.5bn to €13bn. Both Spain and Morocco have applied for funds from the EU, and promise lucrative private contracts.

The partner countries hope the tunnel would improve prosperity in southern Spain and northern Morocco; traffic between the two is already huge. Up to a million Moroccans live in Spain,more still in France and elsewhere in Europe, while Morocco hopes to attract 10 million tourists in 2010.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2198398.ece

^^TrUe True, that is what i was trying to sayy ;)

L’idée est vielle d’un quart de siècle. Le projet de liaison fixe entre le Maroc et l’Espagne est de nouveau à l’ordre du jour. Les deux parties avancent résolument vers un accord sur la construction d'un tunnel sous la Méditerranée.

Une réunion est prévue à Bruxelles en mars ou avril prochains pour présenter ce projet à l'Union européenne. Le coût du tunnel sous Gibraltar est actuellement estimé à environ 18 milliards d'euros. Un budget qui ne saurait être supporté uniquement par les deux pays.

« La liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar constituera non seulement la matrice du transport notamment au niveau de la réduction des distances, mais sera aussi d'un grand apport au niveau de la connexion de vitesse entre l'Espagne et le Maroc », avait souligné Karim Ghellab, ministre de l'Equipement et du Transport, en marge de sa rencontre, lundi dernier à Rabat, avec son homologue espagnol, Mme Magdalena Alvarez.

Si la distance séparant les deux continents n’est que de 14 Km, le tunnel (ferroviaire) sera long de 40 Km un peu plus à l’ouest du détroit de Gibraltar où la profondeur des eaux ne permettent pas de faire des travaux d'ampleur suffisante. Dans un entretien paru dans Maroc Hebdo, Chafik Jilali, responsable marocain du projet, estime que la réalisation effective du projet va se faire en deux grandes étapes.

La première consistera à construire la petite galerie dite de service et de sécurité qui va servir en premier lieu comme galerie-pilote. Les travaux de sa réalisation seront entamés en 2008-2009 et il faut compter 6 à 7 années pour la finaliser. « À ce moment-là, le projet deviendra attractif, c’est-à-dire, il va drainer des constructeurs privés qui se chargeront du reste.

Ce qui fait que les deux autres galeries principales seront réalisées dans le cadre de concessions accordées à des entreprises spécialisées », souligne-t-il. En tout état de cause le chantier s'achèverait au mieux en 2025.

"C'est un défi sans précédent en termes de construction de grandes infrastructures, à la limite de ce qui est techniquement possible. En comparaison, le tunnel sous la Manche était un jeu d'enfant", déclare Giovanni Lombardi au quotidien espagnol El País. Âgé de 80 ans, cet ingénieur suisse n'en reste pas moins une référence en matière de construction et il a, l'automne dernier, été désigné chef de l'avant-projet technique du tunnel de Gibraltar.

"C'est à l'Europe que le tunnel profitera le plus, estime Chafik Jilali. Selon nos prévisions de trafic, deux tiers des passagers et trois quarts des marchandises qui vont transiter par le tunnel viendront de l'Europe." Le projet ne profiterait au Maroc et à l'Espagne qu'en second lieu. « Néanmoins, une chose est certaine, le projet de liaison fixe placera ces deux pays au cœur des échanges commerciaux entre l'Europe et l'Afrique, et les impacts seront énormes sur tous les plans : investissement, création d'emplois et création de richesse. »

Quid de la gestion
La gestion du projet est confiée à deux sociétés (une marocaine et une espagnole) coiffées par un Comité mixte, qui est le patron du projet. Ce comité est co-présidé par Abdelaziz Meziane Belfqih, du côté marocain, et par le secrétaire d’Etat chargé du Transport et de l’Habitat, du côté espagnol. Il est aussi composé à parts égales des représentants de départements ministériels concernés (les Affaires étrangères, les Finances et l’Équipement).

http://www.menara.ma/Infos/includes/detail.asp?article_id=12182&lmodule=Economie

the official site of the project..

http://www.secegsa.com/

Great website Redalinho! The video is amazing!!

http://www.secegsa.com/frances.wmv

Imagine Tarifa to Tangiers in 30minutes. After this period you are in different city, country, and continent! The presentation is great...
The video makes it seem that it doable project and that it is not as challenging as we thought it would be.

Projections:
1- Maximum train speed: 120km/hr
2- Time necessary from one terminal to the other: 30minutes

Phase I initial annual capacity
1- 1.6million tourism cars.
2- 500000 heavy weight trucks
3- 5 million car passengers
4- 11 million individual train passengers

Final Phase annual capacity after Extension(if judged necessary)
1- 50 million passengers
2- 100 million vehicules

Imagine Tarifa to Tangiers in 30minutes. After this period you are in different city, country, and continent! The presentation is great...
The video makes it seem that it doable project and that it is not as challenging as we thought it would be.

Projections:
1- Maximum train speed: 120m/hr
2- Time necessary from one terminal to the other: 30minutes

a maximum speed of 120km/h is really a pity. According to wikipedia, the maximum speed in the channel tunnel is 120 km/h, and it was concieved 20 years ago...

a maximum speed of 120km/h is really a pity. According to wikipedia, the maximum speed in the channel tunnel is 120 km/h, and it was concieved 20 years ago...

You know the trains will also be much more deeper than the channel tunnel. After all this project will only be ready in 15years, and the core of the mission will be to create the tunnel not as much the trains. The train motor could probably be changed in less than a year, while the tunnel is taking15years.
2- Personally, I dont consider that speed is an issue, you are still crossing the strait in half the time necessary for a ferry.

You know the trains will also be much more deeper than the channel tunnel.

Does it has any consequences on the maximum speed of the trains ?

Does it has any consequences on the maximum speed of the trains ?

I am not a civil engineer. But borrowing a chemist-physist rhetoric, I would argue that it does affect since the faster a train goes the higher the friction and heat (energy) that it produces. And given that it is travelling at a very deep location and that plate tectonics are extremely unstable in that area (it is the location where Eurasian and African plates intersect) it would be unwise to risk any disruptions when you are relatively close to the epicenter.
My explication is undoubtedly not as sophisticated as that of a civil engineer nevertheless, it touches upon factors that should not be trivialized.

Tunnel plans create a buzz in Morocco

Possible plans to build a tunnel connecting Morocco with Spain are creating a buzz in the North African country, according to property market experts.

The tunnel, which would provide an alternative for both Moroccans and tourists who cross the straits of Gibraltar in ferries in their thousands every year, "makes sense", Mustapha Mezouri, a director for property agency Property Borders said.

The project would have a positive effect for both Europe and North Africa if it goes ahead, the agency claimed, with Moroccan minister of transportation Karim Ghellab recently stating that although it was not possible to predict a date for the tunnel, "it is a project that will happen".

Mr Mezouri said that foreign direct investment in Morocco was at an all-time high and that evidence of the country's plans to attract ten million tourists by 2010 were everywhere, with new motorways being constructed and Tangiers airport being extended.

A recently-signed open skies agreement with the EU would open up the skies for low cost airlines to fly to the country, he added.

A recent survey for property blog Overseas property-advice.com revealed Morocco as one of the top places to invest in overseas property in the next few years, according to investors.

http://www.realestatetv.tv/content/news/news.php?news=18064272

Work is expected to start in 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6442697.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42673000/gif/_42673985_gibraltar_tunnel_416in.gif

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42673000/gif/_42673987_gib_tun_416in.gif

Soon as 2008? I'll believe it when I see it... but I'd love to use the tunnel when (if) it's completed, gotta be exciting :)

Soon as 2008? I'll believe it when I see it... but I'd love to use the tunnel when (if) it's completed, gotta be exciting :)

i'm happy to see you for the first time having a positive comment on a devellopement in morocco, keep the optimistic view

For the first time? No way... it's just that some of you just love to pick on everything I say and ignore the positive comments, but of course I'm happy for Morocco when something good happens over there, I also support the candidacy of Tangiers for the world Expo 2012 (or was it universal expo? I'm always confused by those terms), it would be a great chance to visit down there.

I like this project, but there are earthquakes, no?

Yes but the tunnel will cross through many different rock strata ;)

STOP this project now !!!!! IT IS DANGEROUS !!
very active geology, it is DISASTER waiting to happen, this area is very very unstable

This tunnel is inviable, that's it.

^^Perhaps its construction could become viable in a decade or so, but i totally agree with post 69: i find it dangerous.

^^Perhaps its construction could become viable in a decade or so, but i totally agree with post 69: i find it dangerous.

I agree that it is a pioneer project, and no one said it will be easy.
For the moment, studies are being conducted for its realization. No construction is supposed to start until a couple of years.
I believe that us saying that the project is unviable today is the same response that pple had during the English channel construction couple decades ago... or leave alone the construction of the panama canal!?!
Either way, if it were to happen it would be a masterpiece of civil engineering!

Plan to link Spain, Morocco gains steam
By Daniel Woolls
The Associated Press

TARIFA, Spain - Engineers have dreamt of it for a quarter-century: linking Europe and Africa at the spot where the two very different worlds gaze at each other across a strip of choppy water.

Now, after seemingly endless studies that turned up more than one nasty geological surprise, a project for a high-speed rail tunnel connecting the continents is gathering momentum, raising the prospect of an engineering marvel on par with the Panama Canal or the Channel Tunnel between Britain and France.

This tube for passengers, cars and freight would bore deep under the Strait of Gibraltar, the narrow waterway where the Atlantic flows into the Mediterranean, and run from Tangier, Morocco, to the Spanish town of Tarifa at Europe's southernmost tip, possibly extending further both ways in the future. Big-name European engineering consultants brought in a few months ago are to complete a feasibility study this year.

The cost is unofficially projected to run over $13 billion, and engineers say the tunnel would take about 20 years to construct. Spain and Morocco hope to receive European Union financing.

There's also the issue of whether that economic chasm between Europe and Africa would doom the tunnel as a white elephant. Planners wonder whether Africa is too poor to provide a sustained, profitable flow of people and goods on the northbound leg of a tunnel.

Even the popular Channel Tunnel opened in 1994 has accrued $16 billion in debt and the company operating it, Eurotunnel, received bankruptcy protection from creditors last year. The costs of digging the 30-mile undersea rail tunnel were massively underestimated, and traffic predictions proved optimistic.

Still, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said last month he is fully committed to the Strait of Gibraltar project. He said the tunnel would "greatly speed growth, development and prosperity" on both sides of the Mediterranean.

The Strait of Gibraltar is only nine miles wide at its narrowest point. But the water is so deep there a rail tunnel would be like a roller coaster slope, so steep as to be out of the question.

So, engineers have chosen a longer but shallower path spanning about 22 miles. Even there, however, the water is about 1,000 feet deep, five to six times deeper than the water in the English Channel where the channel runs.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/17084885.htm

Emiratos Árabes organiza un coloquio sobre el proyecto de túnel entre Marruecos y España

http://www.elfaroceutamelilla.com/noticia.asp?ref=27319

Emiratos Árabes organiza un coloquio sobre el proyecto de túnel entre Marruecos y España

http://www.elfaroceutamelilla.com/noticia.asp?ref=27319


I understood from the article that the UAE organized a seminar in Abu Dhabi head by some of the major figures interested in the project.
It basically suggests that the UAE would be interested in financing or studying the project more closer. This is great news I think for the people that would like this project to materialize, since the financial handicap would abate.
The UAE with its great financial means is constantly interested in long duration investments, with a notable amount in infrastructural investments....

Le Maroc et l'Espagne présentent officiellement à l'UE le projet de liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar

Luxembourg, 08/06/07- Le Maroc et l'Espagne ont présenté vendredi à l'Union européenne leur projet commun de liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar.

Lors d'une cérémonie en marge d'un conseil des ministres européens du transport tenu au Luxembourg, M. Karim Ghellab, ministre de l'Equipement et du Transport et son homologue espagnole, Mme Magdalena Alvarez, ont présenté à M.Jacques Barrot, Commissaire européen chargé du Transport, les résultats des études relatives à ce projet et les perspectives de sa réalisation, ainsi que les schémas directeurs de ses prolongements ferroviaires au nord et au sud, sollicitant un appui de la part de la Commission européenne pour l'aboutissement de ce projet.

A cette occasion, M. Ghellab a souligné que le projet de tunnel sous le détroit de Gibraltar est un projet fédérateur d'idées fortes autour du codéveloppement qui engendrera stabilité et paix pour toute la région, ajoutant que le Maroc et l'Espagne se sont attachés avec force à donner une grande impulsion aux études, dont le rythme de développement est aujourd'hui très satisfaisant.

M. Ghellab a rappelé que le projet de liaison fixe a été adopté la semaine dernière par le forum euroméditérranéen des transports, ajoutant qu'il constitue un maillon essentiel du réseau intégré euroméditerranéen et mérite pour cette raison un traitement à la hauteur du défi à relever et des répercussions socio-économiques attendues, avec une plus grande implication institutionnelle de l'Union européenne dans son développement.

Il a indiqué que l'appui institutionnel demandé aujourd'hui par l'Espagne et le Maroc auprès de l'Union européenne pour la concrétisation du projet de liaison fixe et de ses prolongements ferroviaires parait légitime et amplement mérité. Cet appui, a ajouté M. Ghellab, est de nature à conforter la démarche adoptée par le Maroc dans sa volonté de rapprochement avec l'Union européenne et la revendication au plus haut niveau de l'Etat d'un statut avancé.

Le ministre a également saisi cette occasion pour mettre en exergue l'important effort de développement déployé au Maroc dans le domaine des infrastructures et les importantes réformes institutionnelles et organisationnelles nécessaires à la mise à niveau du secteur des transports, et ce dans la perspective d'un réel rapprochement physique et réglementaire de ses services avec ceux des pays européens.

De son côté, la ministre espagnole de l'Equipement a souhaité que ce projet qui porte les ambitions des deux pays, puisse être bien accueilli par l'Union européenne.

Elle a appelé l'UE à participer avec engagement à ce projet qui reliera l'Europe et l'Afrique et renforcera le rapprochement et les échanges économiques entre les deux continents.

Le commissaire européen s'est félicité de cette initiative commune de la part du Maroc et de l'Espagne. Il a souligné que ce projet porteur de grands desseins pour l'ensemble de la région euroméditerrannée mérite qu'on y accorde l'attention nécessaire. La Commission européenne prendra connaissance des études relatives à ce projet qui peut être retenu comme un important axe dans la politique de voisinage de l'UE, a-t-il ajouté.

Le processus de réalisation des études de la liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar a connu ces dernières années une impulsion importante, notamment avec la réalisation de campagnes de forages profonds en mer et d'ouvrages expérimentaux sur les deux rives, ayant permis de préciser les formations géologiques qui seront traversées par le futur tunnel, en ouvrant la voie aux études complémentaires. Le projet de liaison fixe et ses prolongement nord et sud sont inscrits parmi les chantiers prioritaires retenus pour l'extension du réseau trans-européen de transport aux régions et pays voisins, et dans le cadre du plan d'action régional des transports pour la région méditerranéenne, établi pour la période 2007-2013.


UE-Maroc :Le projet de liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar (encadré)

Le projet de liaison fixe entre le Maroc et l'Espagne à travers le détroit de Gibraltar présenté officiellement à la Commission européenne, vendredi au Luxembourg, vise la mise en place d'un espace économique euro-méditérranéen intégré.

Il vise également à engendrer un impact économique important sur les Etats de la région et à répondre à un trafic potentiel dans des conditions satisfaisantes de sécurité et de respect de l'environnement.

Fruit d'une coopération entre le Maroc et l'Espagne instituée par deux accords en 1980 et en 1989, le projet est aujourd'hui en phase avancée d'études.

Les deux sociétés espagnole (SECEG) et marocaine (SNED) ont retenu comme solution techniquement et économiquement viable celle d'un tunnel de 37 km sous le détroit de Gibraltar.

Les études en cours concernent actuellement la reformulation du projet aux plans technique, socio-économique, environnemental et juridique, à la lumière des nouvelles données géologiques et des trafics maritimes.

Les deux sociétés sont en train de finaliser ces études et vont présenter un rapport d'évaluation globale en 2008 aux gouvernements marocain et espagnol.

Morocco, Spain submit tunnel train project to European Commission



http://www.map.ma/eng/sections/box4/morocco_spain_submi/downloadFile/photo/Mediterranean.jpg


Rabat, June 8 - Morocco and Spain on Friday submitted the tunnel train project, to link Morocco and Spain through the Gibraltar Strait, to the European Commission, during a meeting held in Luxembourg between Moroccan and Spanish delegations and representatives of the Commission.



The delegations presented the results of the studies related to the project and the prospects of its implementation as well as the master plans of its extensions to the North and the South.
The elaboration of those studies, fruit of cooperation between Morocco and Spain since the 1980s, has gained momentum over the past years, mainly due to the drilling operations in the sea and the experimental works on the two shores, which enabled the identification of the geological formations the future tunnel will go through.
These studies have also paved the way for economical technical, environmental and legal complementary studies being carried out by the project studies companies, SECEG (Spain) and SNED (Morocco).
Studies showed the possibility of drilling the 40-km tunnel at 300 or 400 meters under the sea to establish a double-track train line, linking the two continents, through Tangier, Morocco, and the Spanish town of Tarifa at Europe’s southernmost tip.
The project is among priority projects maintained for the extension of the trans-European network of transport to neighbouring regions and countries, and among the Regional Transport Action Plan for the Mediterranean Region, set up for 2007-2013.
The future tunnel will include a side platform of 38.7-km, including 27.7 km under the Mediterranean.
The World Bank, the European Investment Bank, and the African Development Fund, in addition to Arab funds will finance the project.

Un tunnel ferroviaire pourrait relier l'Afrique à l'Europe d'ici à 2025

http://www.letemps.ch/template/economie.asp?page=9&article=213332

GRANDS TRAVAUX. Les études géologiques et de faisabilité économique d'une liaison entre le Maroc et l'Espagne sont bouclées. Conçu notamment par la société suisse Lombardi Engineering Ltd, le projet coûterait 8 milliards de francs.

Si tout va bien, le premier coup de pioche sera donné vers la fin de l'année prochaine. Puis il faudra environ dix-huit ans pour réaliser le projet: un tunnel ferroviaire sous la Méditerranée, via le détroit de Gibraltar, pour relier le Maroc et l'Espagne. Autant dire qu'il s'agit de ces travaux herculéens de la même ampleur que celui du canal de Panama ou du tunnel sous la Manche.

Le Maroc et l'Espagne ne sont séparés que par 16 km de mer. Mais, les études géologiques obligent, le projet de tunnel porte sur un tracé plus sûr de 37,7 km de long, dont 27,7 km sous la mer. Il relierait Punta Paloma et Cap Malabata, près de Tanger. La profondeur maximale sera de 340 mètres sous la Méditerranée.

Relier les continents africain et européen est un vieux rêve. Mais le premier pas concret vers sa réalisation a lieu en 1979. Le roi d'Espagne Juan Carlos et le roi du Maroc Hassan II décident de lancer les premières études de faisabilité. Plusieurs accords se succèdent et des comités hispano-marocains sont chargés d'assurer le suivi. Il est question d'abord d'un pont suspendu, puis d'un tunnel routier. En 2003, les décideurs arrêtent le projet d'un tunnel ferroviaire. Celui-ci reçoit un véritable coup de fouet lorsqu'en 2006 plusieurs entreprises sont engagées pour finaliser les études de faisabilité.

Parmi celles-ci, Lombardi Engineering Ltd de Lugano qui est chargée de concevoir le projet. Fondée en 1989, cette société qui emploie une centaine d'ingénieurs a fait valoir son expérience dans la construction des tunnels, dont celui du Gothard. Pour l'entreprise, la construction du tunnel de Gibraltar représente un plus grand défi que celui sous la Manche, opérationnel depuis 1994. Selon Andrea Pancieri, chef de projet et cité par le Wall Street Journal, l'instabilité géologique du fond de la mer pose la plus grande difficulté.

Plusieurs millions de Marocains en Europe

«Toutes les études géologiques et de perspectives de trafic sont terminées», a affirmé Angel Aparicio, responsable espagnol du projet, dimanche sur la télévision romande. Selon lui, les travaux pourraient être achevés en 2025.

La question du financement reste toutefois entière. Les promoteurs du tunnel ainsi que la société Lombardi estiment les coûts à 8 milliards de francs. Pour les Marocains, c'est à l'Espagne et à l'Europe de payer l'essentiel. De son côté, Madrid a déjà sollicité Bruxelles pour participer au financement.

Il y a unanimité autour de l'urgence d'un tel projet. Il donnerait une importante impulsion économique de part et d'autre de la Méditerranée. Entre 2 et 3 millions de Marocains habitent actuellement en Europe et une bonne partie d'entre eux se rendent au pays chaque année. Par ailleurs, le Maroc entend attirer jusqu'à 10 millions de touristes européens par année à partir de 2010. A présent, surtout en été, les voyageurs doivent attendre pendant des longues heures pour prendre la navette maritime entre Tanger et Algésiras et vice versa. La traversée dure au moins une heure. Avec le tunnel ferroviaire, ce sera trente minutes.

maroc espagne gibraltar tunnel
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cws4 (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cws4_marocespagnegibraltartunnel_politics)

http://www.elpais.com/misc/enlace.jpg


secegsa (http://www.secegsa.com/esp/presentation4.asp)


sned (http://www.secegsa.com/presentation3.asp)

nessecitamoa a esperar mas de 30 anos ?? si yo pienso que es un proyecto enorme de 30 anos si ?

it will happen we just have to wait at least 30 years this is mega project

Mientras esperamos a que el túnel esté construído, las autoridades españolas deberían potenciar el puerto de Algeciras y su acceso por ferrocarril, con objeto de mejorar el servicio de ferries entre Algeciras y Tanger.


While we wait the tunnel is built, spanish authorities would upgrade the Algeciras port and its railway acces, in order to improve the ferry links between Algeciras and Tangier.

What an amazing project ! :okay:
30 ans pour le réaliser par contre... :nuts:

Parmi celles-ci, Lombardi Engineering Ltd de Lugano qui est chargée de concevoir le projet. Fondée en 1989, cette société qui emploie une centaine d'ingénieurs a fait valoir son expérience dans la construction des tunnels, dont celui du Gothard. Pour l'entreprise, la construction du tunnel de Gibraltar représente un plus grand défi que celui sous la Manche, opérationnel depuis 1994. Selon Andrea Pancieri, chef de projet et cité par le Wall Street Journal, l'instabilité géologique du fond de la mer pose la plus grande difficulté.

Plusieurs millions de Marocains en Europe

«Toutes les études géologiques et de perspectives de trafic sont terminées», a affirmé Angel Aparicio, responsable espagnol du projet, dimanche sur la télévision romande. Selon lui, les travaux pourraient être achevés en 2025.

La question du financement reste toutefois entière. Les promoteurs du tunnel ainsi que la société Lombardi estiment les coûts à 8 milliards de francs. Pour les Marocains, c'est à l'Espagne et à l'Europe de payer l'essentiel. De son côté, Madrid a déjà sollicité Bruxelles pour participer au financement.

Im not sure where you got the 30yrs from.
2025-2008= 17yrs. I think people should read the articles and do their homework in order to know the details and what the specialists in the field say rather than throw those numbers in the airs and cause further confusion.

i heard about this project when i was young, and now i hear about it and tomorrow i'll hear , i hope that i can see it in my life :)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cws4_marocespagnegibraltartunnel_politics

Given the numbers in the video I think the project is going to be too small. I mean, the planned capacity for the railway link is only made for the volume of traffic currently crossing the strait. I think that a the new Tanger Med port will constitute really good competition, because with fast ferries it will only take about 30 mins to cross from Algeciras or Tarifa. Then you already have the motorway connection to the rest of the country.

Le tunnel Maroc - Espagne présenté en octobre
5 août 2008 - Commentaires? - En discuter sur les forums?

Le Ministre espagnol des affaires étrangères vient d’annoncer que le grand projet de tunnel qui permettra de relier le Maroc et l’Espagne sera présenté devant les autorités européennes le 13 octobre.


La présentation se tiendra au Luxembourg lors d’une rencontre Maroc - Union Européenne, a précisé le Ministre lors d’une rencontre avec son homologue marocain Tayeb Fassi Fihri.

Ce sera « un projet de grande ambition qui permettra d’unir l’Afrique à l’Europe à travers deux solides maillons que sont le Maroc et l’Espagne » a déclaré le Ministre espagnol.

Les premières études de faisabilité de ce tunnel ont commencé en 1978 avec un accord signé entre le Roi Hassan II et Juan Carlos.
source: bladi.net

Tunnel sous le Détroit : Le Maroc et l'Espagne présenteront en octobre à l'UE le projet de liaison fixe

Le Maroc et l’Espagne présenteront leur projet de liaison fixe devant les autorités de l’Union européenne (UE) le lundi 13 octobre prochain au Luxembourg.


Le projet de liaison fixe entre le Maroc et l’Espagne sera présenté par les deux pays devant les autorités de l’Union européenne, lundi 13 octobre prochain, au Luxembourg. C’est ce que vient de dévoiler Miguel Angel Moratinos, ministre espagnol des Affaires étrangères, à l’issue d’un entretien, lundi 4 août, avec le ministre des Affaires étrangères et de la Coopération, Taïeb Fassi Fihri, à Tanger.
Ce grand projet a été évoqué avec intérêt lors de l’entretien de SM le Roi Mohammed VI avec le chef du gouvernement espagnol, José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero récemment à Oujda.
«Ce projet de grande ambition va permettre de lier l’Afrique à l’Europe à travers deux solides maillons des deux continents : le Maroc et l’Espagne. Nous avons évoqué les moyens et actions à entreprendre pour continuer à renforcer les excellentes relations entre les deux pays», a annoncé le chef de la diplomatie espagnole, dans une déclaration relayée par l’agence de presse MAP. Il y a tout juste un an, une délégation conduite par les ministres de l’Equipement et du Transport, Karim Ghellab, et son homologue espagnole, Magdalena Alvarez, s’est déplacée à Luxembourg pour demander l’appui institutionnel et financier de l’Union européenne. Rappelons que les premières études de ce géant projet ont été entamées après un accord signé par le Roi Hassan II et le Roi Juan Carlos d’Espagne en 1978.
Après de nombreuses études, la Société nationale des études du détroit (SNED) et la Société espagnole pour les études de la liaison fixe à travers Gibraltar (SECEGSA) ont retenu l’option d’un tunnel de près de 40 km. Le tracé de ce tunnel suivra la route dite de l’Umbral (seuil) reliant les deux rives de la Méditerranée, entre Tarifa et Malabata près de Tanger, sur un trajet donc de 40 km, dont 28 sous la mer à une profondeur de 300 m. Devant les autorités de l’Union européenne, lundi 13 octobre 2008, le Maroc et l’Espagne présenteront les dernières conclusions de leurs travaux concernant ce projet qui permettra de jeter les ponts entre deux continents. Par ailleurs, Miguel Angel Moratinos a annoncé aussi que les discussions avec son homologue marocain ont porté sur les préparatifs de la haute commission mixte qui aura lieu en novembre prochain en Espagne. Pour lui, les préparatifs visent à placer cette rencontre de haut niveau dans le cadre des enjeux actuels des relations bilatérales, notamment le niveau des relations du Maroc avec l’Union européenne.
Au menu également de cet entretien, le statut avancé pour le Maroc. M. Moratinos a réaffirmé ainsi l’engagement de l’Espagne à apporter un appui soutenu en vue d’octroyer au Maroc le statut de partenaire privilégié de l’Union européenne. «Nous sommes confiants à ce sujet d’autant plus que la présidence française de l’UE oeuvre également dans le sens d’accorder au Maroc ce statut de partenaire privilégié», a-t-il précisé. Pour sa part, M. Fassi Fihri a souligné l’excellence des relations entre le Maroc et l’Espagne, qui se traduisent par une remarquable dynamique aux niveaux économique, commercial et culturel. Il a noté que les efforts des deux pays pour consolider leurs relations bilatérales sont «constants, empreints de sérieux, de transparence et d’une bonne volonté résolument tournée vers l’avenir».



Le 6-8-2008

Par : Atika Haimoud
source: aujourd hui le maroc

Le Maroc a t-il pensé á convaincre les monarchies du Golfe Persique pour participer á financer le tunnel, quand je pense que Dubai par exemple peut aisément financer a lui seul tout le projet surcoût inclus. D'ailleurs il avait lieu á Dubai une conférence me semble t-il au sujet du tunnel.

A bientôt

Le Maroc a t-il pensé á convaincre les monarchies du Golfe Persique pour participer á financer le tunnel, quand je pense que Dubai par exemple peut aisément financer a lui seul tout le projet surcoût inclus. D'ailleurs il avait lieu á Dubai une conférence me semble t-il au sujet du tunnel.

A bientôt

je crois avoir lu que les responsables du projet ont d'ores et déjà envisagé la possibilité de financements privés internationaux dans le cadre du futur consortium qui exploitera le tunnel. mais avant cela il faut trouver les financements pour amorcer le projet, pour entamer la première galerie dite "de reconnaissance" qui servira plus tard de galerie de service. c'est un investissement à risque (incertitudes techniques donc financières) qui ne peut être pris que par les états ou l'UE. une fois cette galerie réalisée, la faisabilité technique sera démontrée et on aura une idée précise des (sur)coûts. là les éventuels bailleurs de fonds internationaux auront la visibilité nécessaire et pourront se manifester, sachant qu'un premier tunnel sera construit et que la construction du second dépendra de la rentabilité du 1er. pour le consortium, je verrais bien un tour de table marocain (ONA CDG banques etc.) aux côtés de capitaux espagnols et internationaux. l'offre de transport (fret, passagers, roulier) générée par la synergie tanger med / tunnel sera une bénédiction pour l'économie de la région et du pays (boum des arrivées de touristes espagnols, boum des échanges commerciaux maroc/ue et maroc/reste du monde pour le port). vivement 2025/2030 inchallah. marrakech à cinq heures de barcelone, à 10h de paris... :)

Tunnel Maroc/Espagne

Un projet à près de 5,3 milliards d'euros

· Les résultats de faisabilité présentés en octobre
· Le tunnel n’entrera en activité qu’en 2025

http://www.estrechodegibraltar.com/mapa-Gibraltar.jpg

Après le tunnel sous la Manche, un autre devra bientôt voir le jour, cette fois-ci sous le détroit de Gibraltar. Lors d’une rencontre avec son homologue marocain à Tanger le 4 août dernier, le ministre espagnol des Affaires étrangères, Miguel Moratinos, a annoncé l’achèvement des tests de faisabilité. Pour lui, l’ouvrage est un «projet de grande ambition qui permettra de relier l’Afrique à l’Europe».
Le diplomate espagnol a ajouté que les résultats seront présentés à l’Union européenne à partir du 13 octobre prochain au Luxembourg, à l’occasion de la réunion préliminaire du conseil d’association UE-Maroc. Pour rappel, depuis 1995, un organe intergouvernemental, le Comité mixte maroco-espagnol pour la liaison fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar, se charge de la supervision du projet. Il a confié les analyses du tracé initial de la future liaison conjointement à la Société marocaine d’études du détroit de Gibraltar (Sned) et la Société espagnole d’études de la communication fixe dans le détroit (Seceg). Les travaux menés par les deux entreprises publiques ont conclu à la faisabilité d’un tunnel qui devra relier Malabata près de Tanger à la ville espagnole Tarifa. «Le tunnel représente la solution la plus simple et la plus économique du point de vue du génie civil», est-il expliqué auprès de la Sned. La future construction sera longue de 37,7 km, dont 27,2 km sous le sous-sol marin. Une galerie de reconnaissance constituera une étape initiale avant le début des travaux d’excavation pour la construction du tunnel principal. Deux sections y seront prévues : l’une destinée au transport de personnes et de marchandises par le biais d’un TGV, l’autre au transport automobile.

Un plan dégagé par les études a prévu que l’édifice ne deviendrait opérationnel qu’en 2025, estimant son coût à 5,3 milliards d’euros. Le projet devra être co-financé par le Maroc et l’Espagne. L’UE et des organismes privés participeront également au financement. Si le projet aboutit, il contribuera à mettre fin aux encombrements causés régulièrement par le ferry reliant le Maroc à l’Espagne. Rappelons que le projet de liaison fixe a été lancé sur la base d’un accord de coopération bilatérale, signé le 24 octobre 1980. Un accord additionnel actualisant le premier a été conclu par la suite le 29 juillet 1989.

L'économiste

Maroc-Espagne : Le tunnel en bonne voie
2Maroc-Espagne : Le tunnel en bonne voie

Le fameux projet de tunnel reliant le Maroc à l’Espagne vient de franchir une nouvelle étape. L’étude de faisabilité du projet, qui devrait raccorder Tarifa (en Espagne) et Malabata, a été finalisée et devrait être présentée à l’Union Européenne le 13 octobre prochain, à l’occasion de la réunion préliminaire du Conseil d’association UE-Maroc.

Long de 37,7 km, le gigantesque chantier comprendra deux sections distinctes : une voie ferroviaire pour un train grande vitesse (TGV), et un segment routier. Si tout va bien, les travaux de construction devraient démarrer en 2010, pour une mise en service attendue pour 2025. Mais pour cela, il faut que les deux pays décaissent une enveloppe d’investissement estimée à 5,3 milliards d’euros, soit près de 60 milliards de dirhams.

Source : TelQuel

Il y un ïc.
Apparemment le projet pourrait être irréalisable suite à la découverte de paléo-canaux remplis d'argile. A 2 semaines de la présentation du dossier à l'Union Européenne, un doute s'installe.

A lire:
http://amush.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114&Itemid=71

et:
http://amush.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=60&func=view&id=455&catid=31#455

thank's amush nice site welcome

pffffff, des années d'etudes pour enfin nous dire que c'est pas possible, c'est trop bete!

i read this too in newspaper ,this project is cancelled unfortunatly :ohno:

I didn't think it'd be viable in any case. Too much of a financial burden

i read this too in newspaper ,this project is cancelled unfortunatly :ohno:

source ? it just says there is a worry due to an unexpected geological problem that needs more studies to decide whether they can do it with the current technological skills. the project is not cancelled yet. let's say inshallah. i'm sure they won't give after more than 20 years of work, should it represent a major technological challenge. by the way, the UN, the EU and both kingdoms are backing the project as it represents a symbolic opportunity to link two continents and two civilisation areas. we knew from the beginning that it would be much harder than the eurotunnel, it is now confirmed.

3id moubarak sa3id to all skyscrapercitizens.

the project was scheduled to be presented on October 13, but nothing new…

They didnt cancel it officially yet, but i think it doesnt really matter if they do cancel it. The new ferries do 30 mins, which is just 10 mins more than the train.

with the new port of Tanger Med times will be reduced for the big ferry and the conditions will be better !

They didnt cancel it officially yet, but i think it doesnt really matter if they do cancel it. The new ferries do 30 mins, which is just 10 mins more than the train.

Do not forget harsh winterconditions can delay ferry departures for even several days, which is not really good for the economic development of North Morocco or Morocco as such. Another point is loosing time occurs ot during the cross of the Strait, but the check in to a Ferry combined with the customs, this can be reduced with a tunnel. From my point of view such a tunnel can better be proposed within 10/15 years, it's better to use that money in development of also rural Morocco, like everything behind the Atlas Mountains, From Ouarzazate to Figuig ...

Do not forget harsh winterconditions can delay ferry departures for even several days, which is not really good for the economic development of North Morocco or Morocco as such. Another point is loosing time occurs ot during the cross of the Strait, but the check in to a Ferry combined with the customs, this can be reduced with a tunnel. From my point of view such a tunnel can better be proposed within 10/15 years, it's better to use that money in development of also rural Morocco, like everything behind the Atlas Mountains, From Ouarzazate to Figuig ...

The problem is you need maybe 50 years to break even with the costs made to create the tunnel. At this time the capacity of the passenger/freight terminals are being expended and can actually handle most of the cargo better than freight trains. I agree on one thing tho, the bureaucratic borders are a burden for good trade. Together with corrupt officers they are making Morocco not attractive to trade with.

Spain-Africa link decision 'near'
By Danny Wood
BBC News, Madrid



Until now, crossings between Spain and Africa have always been by sea

Spain says a feasibility study for an undersea tunnel to connect Spain and Morocco is in the final stages.

If the project goes ahead and construction begins, trains carrying both passengers and goods are expected to start using the tunnel in 2025.

The tunnel would be 40km long and pass 300m under the Mediterranean Sea.

The undersea link would unite North Africa and Europe for the first time since the continents separated more than 200 million years ago.

Swiss engineers are finalising a feasibility study that will determine whether this underwater connection is technically possible.

However, Angel Aparicio, president of the Spanish government agency co-ordinating the project says building the tunnel presents difficulties that may not be possible to overcome.

"The material here is not compact enough to allow an initial excavation.

"It is clay with rock and so it is not as compact as it is in the rest. As we have a lot of water we have a very high pressure and we are not sure whether we could go through with the tunnelling," he said.

"Those are the difficult questions."

Years of talk

If construction goes ahead the tunnel will take 15 years to build and cost at least $8bn (£4bn).

The Spanish and Moroccan governments see the tunnel as part of a new Mediterranean transport hub for passengers and goods.

Others are not so sure. The prospect of a physical connection between their country and the poorest continent in the world is alarming to some Spaniards.

Others are sceptical about this ambitious scheme ever being completed.

Spain and Morocco have discussed bridge and tunnel plans for more than 20 years.

However, this time the project has support from the European Union and the possibility of funding from the World Bank.

If the feasibility study is positive, work on the tunnel could start in 2009.

source: BBC
link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7515125.stm

to me that is a waste of money both by spain and morocco that money can be used in both countries for education health care and so on

to me that is a waste of money both by spain and morocco that money can be used in both countries for education health care and so on

I think it can give a boost to the economy.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42673000/gif/_42673985_gibraltar_tunnel_416in.gif

Karim, has right it is waste of money just like the TGV..

The billions can be better spend in infrastructure, property and to make the bad education and health care in Morocco better..

just imagine earthquake / very high winds / all this study very bad conditions both nations achieving nothing project taking 30 to 50 years to complete that to me is crazy
Like I said before both spain and morocco can do much better with infrastructure health care education tourism
I think more ferry routes should be done look at tangier med that is one big success that is what morocco needs to do instead of stupid wasteful and potentially dangerous trillion dollar project

Publié le 06.11.2008

Le Statut avancé, récemment accordé au Maroc par l'Union européenne (UE), va certainement aider à la concrétisation du projet de liaison fixe entre le Maroc et l'Espagne, a indiqué le ministre de l'Equipement et du Transport, M. Karim Ghellab.
L'UE a pris acte de ce projet, qui a été spécifiquement mentionné dans l'Accord d'association avec le Maroc, et "des efforts vont se poursuivre pour l'y impliquer davantage", a-t-il précisé dans un entretien publié mercredi par le quotidien "L'Economiste".

Le projet de liaison fixe Maroc-Espagne "est référencé sur la liste de projets prioritaires établie par Bruxelles et il fait partie du prolongement des axes routiers qui relient le réseau trans-européen aux pays du voisinage de l'Europe", a-t-il noté.

M. Ghellab a affirmé que le statut avancé "est avant tout une avancée politique forte et une distinction pour le Maroc", ajoutant que cette reconnaissance devrait être "concrétisée par plusieurs projets et moyens supplémentaires".

"Il y a plusieurs progrès institutionnels derrière ce statut avancé, dont la convergence réglementaire est l'une des plus importantes", a-t-il dit.

Source: MAP

The Afro-Bridge comes nearer


November 26, 2008

Could ’sustainable’ 24-lane superhighway now be favoured over a tunnel?

http://www.theolivepress.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/gib12.jpg

A BRIDGE across the Straits of Gibraltar could have just come a step nearer after a viability study for a tunnel came back negative.
The bridge scheme, which would go from Tarifa to Tangier, would involve nine miles of bridges 24 lanes wide, all connected to a floating island.
In good news for environmentalists a full geological study for a tunnel shows that two clay sections under the sea would make it difficult to build.
Angel Aparicio, boss of the group SECEG, the engineering group in charge of the project, admitted: “It is not clear whether it will be possible.
“Until we start building it is going to be very hard to know what to expect.”
The company is now proposing to build an exploratory tunnel from the Moroccan side up to the clay section in order to carry out tests.

“This would be better on environmental grounds and will give us a better idea of what the geology is like below the sea,”

“This would be better on environmental grounds and will give us a better idea of what the geology is like below the sea,” added Aparcio.
But this would also add an extra billion euros to the already huge projected cost of 3.4billion euros.
It has led the authorities to once again look at a bridge scheme, that was commissioned by the Junta two years ago.
Designed by US architect Eugene Tsui, the seven billion euro superhighway would be used by trains, cars and pedestrians to transport around 60 million people a year.
The 14.5km bridge would be submerged in two parts and linked up by a floating ‘ecological island’.
The design allows for the largest ocean-going ships to pass unimpeded within a four mile width where the bridge is submerged and leaves marine currents undisturbed.
Financed by Spain, Morocco and the European Union, it would take seven years to complete and would link the towns of Punta Cires in Morocco with Tarifa in Spain.
In a clever add on, the three-mile long island will be an energy production centre with 150 windmills and 80 underwater tidal turbines generating 12 billion kilowatts of electricity an hour. ‘This in itself allows the bridge to pay for itself many times over in the generation of electricity, not to mention tourist dollars,’ Tsui told the Olive Press.Launched in 2006, it would also create less damage on the fragile ecology around Tarifa.
Currently, the longest existing bridge is the Seto Ohashi Kojima bridge some 13.22 kilometres long and built in 1988 for $8.3 billion dollars
A source at the Junta told the Olive Press: ‘We are taking this seriously. The environmental aspects of the scheme are of particular interest, as is the fact that it would pay for its way.”

http://www.theolivepress.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/gib02.jpg

^^ WOW! That would be so cool if it came true. Seems a bit like science fiction though.

Thats....something different alright.

is this source reliable (about this new option) ? anyway, it looks like a clever solution : building a floating island upon the two clay sections would resolve the problem rised by the tunnel project studies.

PS : I've searched about this floating bridge proposal. http://www.tdrinc.com/gibraltar.htm

looks interesting, should it be cheaper and faster to build than the tunnel...

Not even dubai has a crazy project like this lol :nuts:

Why not!
It looks gorgeous:nuts:

PVNrA2kU26E

this project will never be relased

this project will never be relased

I guess too...

this project will never be relased

malheureusement je crois que tu as raison! mais je pense plutot que c est l Espagne qui souhaite que ce projet n aboutisse pas!

^^
yes we have to be realistic and stop dreaming :ohno:

why would Spain be against it. Just be realistic, we don't need this project, Morocco can better connect more cities to the motorway network and start the high speed lines.
We will have the new port of tangier which will be a lot closer to Spain and cut half the needed travel time to Spain.

Maybe within 10 years when nord is already developped and crisis is over and Spain and Morocco are booming. But not at this moment, to much money for someting to risky with a current gloomy economic outlook ...

why would Spain be against it. Just be realistic, we don't need this project, Morocco can better connect more cities to the motorway network and start the high speed lines.
We will have the new port of tangier which will be a lot closer to Spain and cut half the needed travel time to Spain.

Maybe within 10 years when nord is already developped and crisis is over and Spain and Morocco are booming. But not at this moment, to much money for someting to risky with a current gloomy economic outlook ...

Ditto, +1 ^^

It is not a necessity for the moment, we already have the Ferry, Tanger Med, and and and...

We'd better invest money in other much more important elements :)

It will be a fiasco just like the Channeltunnel.


In the future more traffic wil go on see in bigger container sheeps and less by land. Morocco can better spend the money to build better infrastructure in Morocco so that Morocco can become a trade gateway for Africa, North America, Asia and Europe..

If they really want to spend money on building tunnels, they can start building e highway from Oujda via Nador and Nador West Med to Tétouan, Tangier Med. If the new port in Nador will be constructed a highway between the two ports will be necessary.

They can also use that money to build the much needed highway between Fès and Tétouan/Tangier.

Last but not least, if they really want to build a huge tunnel, they can build one of several kilometers between Marrakech and Ouarzazate. It's incredible, such a touristic city, with a big movie industry can still be deconnected for several weeks in winter due to harsh weather conditions ...

Mais sérieux il faut penser plus loin que le bout de son nez! tangermed a quoi il sert? c'est pour le marché marocain? non du tout c'est un outil qui permettra a des entreprises étrangères de s'installer au Maroc, produire des voitures des ordinateurs des pneux ou je ne sais quoi encore et de pouvoir les exporter facilement! le rail est donc le parfait complément de ceci, car il faut bien comprendre que le but premier de ce tunnel n'est pas de faciliter le transit des MRE ou des touristes(bien que ceci soit une conséquence fort apprécié), c'est surtout un outil qui va mettre toute l'Europe a mois d'une journée de rail pour nos exportation. et la c'est le jackpot. C'est d'ailleurs pour moi la seul explication au développement du tgv au Maroc, car ce dernier(le TGV) si il reste domestique(donc confiné au marché local) ne peut être qu'un gouffre financier pour le Maroc! sans oublier que l'Europe est entrain de mettre en place son gigantesque réseau LGV qui irais du sud jusqu'au cercle polaire(j'exagère a peine) enfin le dernier bénéfice et non des moindre car c'est quelque chose qui me tiens a coeur c'est le reseau inter-maghrébin car si un projet aussi énorme est mis en place l'algerie n'aura d'autre choix que de s'y associé sous peine d'etre larguée economiquement par le maroc ce qui relance tout le projet du Maghreb arabe et nous fera gagner un bon petit 2 points de PIB par an...(comme ca sans rien faire..)
Si après tout cela vous pensez que ce projet est du gaspillage d'argent... ehh.. ce qu'on pense ne change pas grand chose en fait, mais fallais que ca sorte car perso j'en peut plus des projet sans envergure. on a besoin de plus de chose de l'acabit de tangerMed au maroc!! d'ailleur c'est normal que l'espagne fasse tout pour faire capoter ce projet car qui irais construire une usine la bas si il peut le faire pour 2 fois moins cher a 14Km de la??
ce tunnel est certainement la pice maitresse que le maroc DOIT jouer pour connaitre un boum a l'asiatique

Le problème, c'est que si le tunnel venait à être construit, Tanger Med ne servirait presque plus à rien, car le flux Afrique - Europe sera desservi par ce tunnel, il ne reste donc que le flux Asie méditerranéenne - Amérique.

Le problème, c'est que si le tunnel venait à être construit, Tanger Med ne servirait presque plus à rien, car le flux Afrique - Europe sera desservi par ce tunnel, il ne reste donc que le flux Asie méditerranéenne - Amérique.

???
Pas du tout mon ami, Tanger med vise le trafic Est-Ouest, alors que le tunnel c'est Nord-Sud

Ils seraient complémentaires et certainement pas concurrents

???
Pas du tout mon ami, Tanger med vise le trafic Est-Ouest, alors que le tunnel c'est Nord-Sud

Ils seraient complémentaires et certainement pas concurrents

Voila, le maritime c'est pour les longues distances et les cargaisons qui n'ont pas de grandes contraintes de temps. C'est comme de dire qu'un port ne sert a rien et qu'on ferai mieu de creer des aéroports...

moi j'avais dit qu'il ne sera pas realiser juste paske mon voisin est architecte dans le cabinet marocain chargé de ce projet et m'avait dit qu'il y avait eu une erreur, grave ou pas, dans les etudes qui pourrait impossibilisé, je sais po si ca existe en verbe lool, les traveaux comme avait dit le journal El Pais, l'affaire a ete classé par les deux pays et rien n'a changé des mois apres on en a parlé dans El Publico mais sans signaler la moindre erreur ou faute ds le projet. un peu louche nn?? surtt qu'on en parle plus ds les medias...

???
Pas du tout mon ami, Tanger med vise le trafic Est-Ouest, alors que le tunnel c'est Nord-Sud

Ils seraient complémentaires et certainement pas concurrents

Voila, le maritime c'est pour les longues distances et les cargaisons qui n'ont pas de grandes contraintes de temps. C'est comme de dire qu'un port ne sert a rien et qu'on ferai mieu de creer des aéroports...

^^Comprends pas.

قنطرة الأحلام بين الـمغرب وأوروبا ستكون جاهزة في 2020

هسبريس - متابعة

Saturday, August 08, 2009

ذكرت مصادر إعلامية إسبانية أن حكومة خوصي لويس رودريغيز ثاباطيرو استبشرت بالقرار الأخير الصادر عن المجلس الاقتصادي والاجتماعي التابع للأمم المتحدة حول مشروع الربط القار بين المغرب وإسبانيا عبر مضيق جبل طارق، حيث تمت المصادقة على التقرير الذي يتمحور حول تقدم الدراسات التقنية لمشروع النفق الذي سيضم ثلاثة أروقة، وسيبلغ طوله 38 كيلومتراً وتوجد 28 كيلومتراً منه تحت سطح البحر والعشرة الباقية تحت الأرض لتفادي مخاطر الرياح.

وسينطلق مساره من طريفة الإسبانية إلى ساحل مالاباطا بطنجة وسيضم المشروع أيضاً خطاً سككياً للقطار.

وكانت الشركة الإسبانية SECEGSA قد أنهت منذ أشهر دراستها التقنية للمشروع الذي يتوقع أن تنتهي أشغاله في أفق سنة 2020.

وتقدر التكلفة الإجمالية بحوالي 5 ملايير أورو وستقوم الجهات الممولة للمشروع كالاتحاد الأوروبي والدولتين المعنيتين المغرب وإسبانيا وبعض المؤسسات الخاصة بتحديد مساهمة كل طرف على حدة.

وانطلقت فكرة مشروع الربط القار بين أوروبا وإفريقيا بداية الثمانينيات، بعد توقيع حكومتي المغرب وإسبانيا يوم 24 أكتوبر 1980 لاتفاقية التعاون الثنائي

C'est sûr alors, merci entreact pour l'article, et ils avaient cette idée depuis 1980 ? WOW :tongue:

Vous êtes sûrs que si ce projet abouti, ça ne fera pas de l'ombre à Tanger Med?

pardon pour casse de discution :bash::bash:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5169/gibraltar1rp6.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6268/gibraltar3yh3.jpg
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/7239/gibraltar4ul6.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5516/gibraltar5zr1.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3243/gibraltar6dy7.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8342/gibraltar7cx6.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4923/g8fi4.jpg
fin

x2cws4

http://a.imageshack.us/img401/8869/fichs0801.jpg

tpi.setec.fr

Mesures batymétriques permettant de mieux visualiser les défis de la profondeur du détroit.

8UiCt85txNo

Mucho se ha escrito sobre hacer un puente sobre el Estrecho de Gibraltar, y sobre las dificultades que conlleva debido a laprofundidad. Busqué algún modelo en 3d del fondo marino,pero como no hallé ninguno, me lo hice yo,después de transformar un mapa de profundidades. !! Ahora si !! Todo está mucho más claro. La zona más idónea sería la vertiente atlántica (con profundidades de 200 mts. ) aunque también es la más ancha.Curiosidad:hace unos 6 millones de años al empujar Africa sobre Europa, hizo una "presa" en el estrecho,provocando que en 1.000 años el Mediterráneo acabase secándose por evaporación.pero la erosión el mar y el propio empuje de Africa acabaron con el dique,creando una catarata 1.000 veces mayor que las del Niágara, que en sólo 100 años llenaron de nuevo la cuenca.Lo más gordo es que ésto sucedió hasta 10 veces!!!Por eso, si os fijais, el fondo marino es más profundo en la entrada del mediterráneo, las fosas que se aprecian las hizo la cantidad ingente de agua que caía desde el Atlántico. Para flipar, vamos !!Para observar mejor éstas cosas , utiliza el botón de pausa.

cg-oW5rIQ6o

Liaison fixe par Gibraltar : Le chantier ressuscité!

· Préparation de la 5e campagne des forages marins

· Un appel d’offres international émis par le Maroc et l’Espagne

· Il porte sur la reconnaissance des zones profondes

EST-CE enfin le bout du tunnel pour le lancement des travaux du grand projet de liaison fixe reliant l’Afrique à l’Europe via le détroit de Gibraltar? La Société nationale d’études du détroit de Gibraltar (Sned) et son homologue espagnol viennent de commanditer une étude ciblant la préparation de la 5e campagne de forages profonds en mer. L’étude vise à fournir aux commanditaires une expertise sur les meilleurs moyens de reconnaissance géologiques de la zone profonde (300 mètres) du tracé du tunnel. Est-ce la dernière ligne droite pour l’ultime phase d’autres études? On ne peut préjuger de la teneur. Mais quoi qu’il en soit, le projet connaît un regain d’intérêt, après une certaine léthargie qui remonte au mois d’octobre 2007. Pour rappel, les choses se sont accélérées en 2003 quand le Maroc et l’Espagne ont signé un nouvel accord pour étudier la possibilité d’un tunnel ferroviaire sous-marin connecté à leur réseau ferré respectif. Texte, doté par la suite d’un investissement de près de 10 millions d’euros. Une étude de 3 ans est alors lancée conjointement. La solution retenue tient à la construction d’un méga tunnel de trois galeries souterraines, abritant trois voies ferrées, d’une longueur de 38 km dont 28 sous la mer. Et ce, sous une profondeur marine de 300 mètres. Un rapport d’évaluation global du projet devait être remis aux deux gouvernements en 2008.
L’état d’avancement des études a été présenté lors d’une rencontre entre les premiers ministres espagnol et marocain à Rabat en mars 2007. Une étude sur l’impact socio-économique du tunnel a été lancée en mai de la même année mais aucune date du lancement des travaux de construction n’a encore été fixée. Une demande de financement a été soumise à l’Union européenne par le Maroc le 13 octobre 2008. Mais aucune suite n’a été non plus donnée à cette requête. «Si bien qu’à la date du 30 mai 2007, près de 30 millions de dollars avaient déjà été dépensés dans les études géologiques et physiques», révéla Karim Ghellab, le ministre de l’Equipement et du Transport.
Trois mois auparavant, une délégation conduite par Ghellab, et son homologue espagnole, Magdalena Alvarez, avait fait le déplacement au Luxembourg, pour plaider l’appui institutionnel et financier de l’UE. Outre le projet de liaison, les deux partenaires ont présenté les schémas directeurs de ses prolongements ferroviaires au nord et au sud de l’Europe. Une configuration déployée à travers des axes multimodaux inscrits parmi les projets prioritaires retenus pour l’extension du réseau transeuropéen de transport aux régions et pays voisins ainsi que dans le cadre du Plan d’action régional des transports pour la région méditerranéenne, établi pour la période 2007-2013. Pour sa part, le Maroc, à travers le département de l’Equipement et du Transport, a déjà inscrit cette donne dans sa stratégie de développement des communications terrestres. Ainsi, souligne-t-on auprès de ce département, la partie Sud des axes ferroviaires prévus dans cette stratégie de l’UE comporte l’axe Tanger-Casablanca-Agadir et Casablanca-Oujda.
Ces deux axes sont déjà inscrits dans le cadre du schéma directeur des lignes ferroviaires à grande vitesse, planifié par le Maroc. Ledit schéma vise à doter le pays, à l’horizon 2030, d’un réseau ferroviaire à grande vitesse, d’une longueur de 1.500 km. De part et d’autre, le méga projet s’adosserait donc sur des infrastructures hautement rentables dans les deux sens. Mais ni l’argumentaire et encore moins la faisabilité du projet ne semblent avoir convaincu les instances onusiennes. En mai 2009, le Conseil économique et social des Nations unies a produit en effet un rapport qui pointe les difficultés techniques du projet ainsi que les incertitudes qui pèsent sur sa viabilité économique. Pourtant, il y a cinq années, un bureau d’études suisse a été présumé candidat pour la construction du tunnel. Pourquoi ça bloque alors? Est-ce le financement qui fait défaut? Ou plutôt le spectre de l’immigration clandestine qui est redouté?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Du pont au tunnel



LA décision de mener les premières études de faisabilité fut prise dans le cadre des accords bilatéraux signés par le Maroc et l’Espagne en 1979. D’autres accords passées en 1980 et 1989 rappelaient ce projet avec la création par les deux gouvernements d’un «Comité mixte hispano-marocain chargé de l’étude de faisabilité d’une liaison fixe Europe-Afrique à travers le détroit de Gibraltar» et celles de deux sociétés, l’une marocaine, Sned, et l’autre espagnole, la Secegsa, pour porter ces études. L’idée alors la plus courante était celle d’un pont. Projet écarté en raison de la profondeur de la Méditerranée qui atteint par endroits plus de 300 mètres d’un coût de 15 milliards de dollars environ. L’idée d’un tunnel routier fut aussi abandonnée à cause des difficultés techniques insurmontables pour la ventilation et l’extraction des gaz d’échappement. Finalement, c’est un tunnel ferroviaire aux triples rails qui a été retenu.

l'eco

La solution retenue tient à la construction d’un méga tunnel de trois galeries souterraines, abritant trois voies ferrées, d’une longueur de 38 km dont 28 sous la mer. Et ce, sous une profondeur marine de 300 mètres. Un rapport d’évaluation global du projet devait être remis aux deux gouvernements en 2008.

3 galeries, mais 2 voies ferrées. La galerie centrale étant une galerie de secours.

Dans un 1er temps, il y aura 1 galerie de secours, et 1 galerie ferrée.

Il aura fallu la construction de TangerMed qui a commencé à faire de l'ombre au Port d'Algésiras pour que les espagnols se bougent enfin et décide de jouer le jeu pour ce Tunnel.


En tous cas si c'était le prix à payer, le Maroc a gagné dans cette histoire un port de de référence niveau méditerranéen et africain, et peut-être dans l'avenir enfin une liaison terrestre avec l'Europe.

Je me vois déjà prendre un TGV direct Casablanca-Madrid :cheers:

Pour sa part, le Maroc, à travers le département de l’Equipement et du Transport, a déjà inscrit cette donne dans sa stratégie de développement des communications terrestres. Ainsi, souligne-t-on auprès de ce département, la partie Sud des axes ferroviaires prévus dans cette stratégie de l’UE comporte l’axe Tanger-Casablanca-Agadir et Casablanca-Oujda.

En mai 2009, le Conseil économique et social des Nations unies a produit en effet un rapport qui pointe les difficultés techniques du projet ainsi que les incertitudes qui pèsent sur sa viabilité économique. Pourtant, il y a cinq années, un bureau d’études suisse a été présumé candidat pour la construction du tunnel. Pourquoi ça bloque alors? Est-ce le financement qui fait défaut? Ou plutôt le spectre de l’immigration clandestine qui est redouté?

Pour être viable économiquement il faudra que ce tunnel puisse bénéficier d'extensions maghrébine et sub-saharienne afin de devenir un couloir d'échange entre l'Europe et l'Afrique, réduisant ainsi les coûts de transport des biens entre les deux rives

Ainsi l'avènement du Réseau de TGV adossé à celui des autoroutes en plus de la dynamique générée par Tanger Med ont pu redonner une raison d'être à ce projet

Depuis le forum espagnol http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=123640&page=24

Reanudan el proyecto del túnel del Estrecho con un estudio geotécnico

La Sociedad Española de Estudios para la Comunicación Fija convoca el concurso internacional de la quinta campaña de sondeos, con un presupuesto de 100.000 euros
A. Muñoz / Algeciras | Actualizado 29.09.2010 - 01:00

Continúan los estudios para profundizar en el proyecto de la unión del Estrecho de Gibraltar con un enlace fijo. La Sociedad Española de Estudios para la Comunicación Fija a través del Estrecho de Gibraltar, SA (Secegsa) ha iniciado los trámites del concurso internacional para elegir a la empresa que ejecute la quinta campaña de sondeos marinos profundos en el Estrecho que darán como fruto, en un futuro, un túnel ferroviario subterráneo. Secegsa realiza estos estudios en colaboración con la empresa homóloga marroquí Société Nationale d'Études du Détroit de Gibraltar (SNED).

Según los pliegos del concurso internacional, que se han publicado en francés, el importe máximo de la licitación del nuevo estudio serán 100.000 euros, y tendrán un periodo de ejecución de tres meses. La quinta campaña de sondeos tiene como objetivo la caracterización geotécnica de las brechas del terreno, que se realizarán en ensayos en el lugar y en laboratorio a través de las muestras obtenidas; la delimitación de la extensión de surcos a lo largo de trayecto y la verificación de la ausencia de arena al nivel del trazo del túnel. El estudio pretende abastecer a las dos sociedades de la opinión de un experto sobre los mejores medios de reconocimiento geológico-geotécnico de la zona en estudio (a unos 300 metros bajo el nivel del mar) para el trazado del túnel en el Estrecho.

Secegsa y Sned iniciaron en los 80 los estudios e investigaciones del proyecto del enlace fijo entre España y Marruecos a través del Estrecho, que culminaron con la decisión de construir un túnel ferroviario subterráneo similar al del Canal de La Mancha, aunque de mayor complejidad por la agresividad del medio marino y atmosférico y por una geología muy compleja. Años de investigaciones han permitido comprender las dificultades del emplazamiento desde el punto de vista del medio geológico, oceanográfico, sísmico y meteorológico.

La ejecución de este proyecto está previsto de una manera escalonada en el tiempo. El túnel ferroviario submarino llevará, en su primera fase, una sola vía ferroviaria que se explotará en ambos sentidos, conectada a una galería de servicio de menor diámetro.

Por dicho túnel podrán transitar, tanto trenes de viajeros y de mercancías, como trenes de alta velocidad, y también trenes especiales, llamados lanzaderas, que circularán entre las dos estaciones terminales, y que podrán transportar vehículos acompañados (turismos, caravanas, autobuses, camiones y trailers).

Google translate

Reprendre le projet du tunnel du détroit avec une étude géotechnique

La Société espagnole pour l'étude des communications fixes annonce du concours international pour la cinquième année d'études, avec un budget de 100.000 euros

A. Muñoz / Algeciras | Mise à jour 29/09/2010 - 01:00

Les études se poursuivent pour approfondir le projet commun du détroit de Gibraltar avec une liaison fixe. La Société espagnole d'études pour la communication fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar, SA (Secegsa) a lancé le processus de la concurrence internationale de choisir la société qui gère la cinquième campagne de forages profonds de la mer dans le détroit qui donnera, dans l'avenir, un tunnel de métro. Secegsa effectuer ces études en collaboration avec la société homologue marocain, la Société Nationale d'Etudes du Détroit de Gibraltar (SNED).

Selon le cahier des charges du concours international, qui ont été publiés en français, le montant maximal de l'appel d'offres pour la nouvelle étude sera de € 100.000 et ont une période de mise en œuvre de trois mois. La campagne de forage cinquième visant à caractériser les essais lacunes domaine de la géotechnique à mener sur le site et à travers des échantillons de laboratoire, la délimitation des rainures s'étendant le long du chemin et de vérification l'absence de sable au niveau de la course du tunnel. L'étude vise à répondre aux deux sociétés pour obtenir des conseils d'experts sur le meilleur moyen d'études géologiques et géotechniques de la zone d'étude (environ 300 mètres sous le niveau de la mer) à la route du tunnel du détroit.

Sneden Secegsa et a commencé dans les années 80 des études et des projets de recherche du lien fixe entre l'Espagne et le Maroc à travers le détroit, qui a conduit à la décision de construire un tunnel de métro similaires de la Manche, bien que plus complexe par le l'agressivité de la géologie marine et atmosphérique et très complexe. Des années de recherche ont permis de mieux comprendre les difficultés du site du point de vue du temps géologiques, océanographiques, sismiques et.

La mise en œuvre de ce projet est prévue de manière échelonnée dans le temps. Le tunnel ferroviaire sous-marin sera, dans sa première phase, une ligne de chemin de fer unique sera exploitée dans les deux directions, relié à un plus petit diamètre du tunnel de service.

Pour le tunnel peut Voyage, deux trains de voyageurs et de marchandises, et les trains à grande vitesse et des trains spéciaux, appelés navettes, qui se déplacent entre les deux stations terminales, qui, ensemble, peuvent transporter des véhicules (voitures, caravanes, bus, camions et les remorques).

Résumé : rien de neuf !

c'est quoi comme source?

c'est quoi comme source?

Ce n'était pas indiqué sur le forum espagnol. C'est un journal local il me semble.

nLtIEK83nM0

0:36 liaison sur le détroit de Gibraltar

Info similaire déjà publiée ici:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9384/gibraltar1e.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/gibraltar1e.jpg/)

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7661/gibraltar2.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/gibraltar2.jpg/)

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8639/gibraltar3.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/gibraltar3.jpg/)

Nom du projet : LA LIAISON FIXE EUROPE-AFRIQUE À TRAVERS LE DÉTROIT DE GIBRALTAR

Organisation responsable : Comité mixte maroco-espagnol pour la liaIson fixe

Description : Tunnel de 38,7 km constitué par deux galeries principales à voie unique de 7,5 metres de diametre et d'une galerie de service de 4,8 m de diametre.

L’objectif du projet est de relier les axes terrestres européens et maghrébins par un ouvrage fixe à travers le détroit de Gibraltar afin de répondre à la demande actuelle de trafic entre les deux zones et à son évolution future et ce dans le but d’une meilleure intégration physique et économique de la région de la Méditerranée Occidentale.

* PHASE I (1997-2002): construction de la galerie de reconnaissance d’une rive à l’autre et établissement du cadre institutionnel et du montage
* PHASE II (2003-2009): construction et équipement du premier tunnel destiné au transport ferroviaire par train classique de voyageurs et marchandises.
* PHASE III (2025-2030): construction et équipement du deuxiéme tunnel ferroviaire.

Coût total : 315 millions d'ECU pour la construction de la galerie de reconnaissance

Etat d'avancement : Lancement. Délais des travaux pour la première phase: 5 ans.


http://www.cetmo.org/f_scepfer.htm

Bientôt un tunnel avec l'Europe

Après 34 ans de tergiversations, le projet de liaison fixe entre le Détroit de Gibraltar, imaginé dans les années 60 par le roi Hassan II, père de Mohammed VI, a été relancé. A l'initiative de l'Union européenne, le projet "sera présenté le 13 octobre au Luxembourg lors d'une réunion du Conseil d'association Maroc-Union européenne", rapporte le magazine Maroc Hebdo. Il s'agit de creuser à 300 mètres de profondeur un tunnel ferroviaire, reliant Tanger à l'Espagne, d'une longueur de 38 kilomètres dont 28 sous la mer. A supposer qu'aucun obstacle financier, politique ou technique ne vienne entraver sa réalisation, le tunnel pourrait voir le jour vers 2025.

www.courrierinternational.com

C'est tout pres, j'irai faire un saut :D Bon je plaisate, si ca realise d'ici la 15 ans, c'est pas mal :)

Le tunnel du Détroit de Gibraltar pour 2025 ?
Bladi.net

Le projet de l’Afrotunnel, couloir ferroviaire qui devrait relier le Maroc à l’Espagne en passant sous la Méditerranéenne, sera présenté mercredi 13 octobre à Luxembourg à l’occasion d’une réunion du Conseil d’association Maroc-Union européenne.

Ce tunnel de 38 kilomètres de longueur, dont 28 km sous la mer, devrait nécessiter un investissement estimé à plus de cinq milliards d’euros.

Soutenu par le Maroc et l’Espagne depuis 34 ans, le projet de l’Afrotunnel, dont l’initiative de la relance revient à l’Union européenne, pourrait accueillir ses premiers voyageurs d’ici à 2025.

Projet tres hypothetique c est pas pour rien que ca traine, l argent ne tombe pas du ciel, l UE est elle prete a financer le projet?
Les annees passent et ce projet en est toujours au stade du bla bla...

C'est plus un défi techinique qu'une question d'argent. La profondeur de la mer ainsi que la sismiscité des lieux sont des défis immenses. De plus, ce n'est pas un projet Europe-Afrique mais Europe-Maroc, car la on n'a pas de réseau férré connecté à l'Afrique subsaharienne, et la seule voie qui le sera prochainement passe par l'Algérie. Or la frontière est fermée. Donc commercialement, c'est pas très défendable.

Traverser le détroit de Gibraltar en voiture ou en train devrait être possible en 2025. C’est ce qui vient d’être annoncé lors d’une présentation du projet au Luxembourg, lors d’une réunion du conseil d’association Maroc-Union Européenne. D’une longueur de 38 kilomètres, le tunnel, qui coûtera entre 4 et 5 milliards de dollars, reliera Malabata, dans la région de Tanger, à Tarifa, annonce la société d’études du détroit de Gibraltar.
Apparemment c'est bon !

Apparemment c'est bon !

Le projet a été présenté mercredi 13 octobre devant la Comission Européenne et il n'en resort que ça ? Je cherche des dépêches AFP, Reuters, MAP depuis 48h et il n'y a rien !

Quelle est la source de la brève ?

Les espagnoles ne voudront pas de ce tunnel qui va mettre à sec leur économie deja faut juste voir comment nos ports agissent sur eux. Nador est 10X plus peuplé que Melilia, comme au mois d'Août, il yavait 8 bateaux marocains par jour et Melilia 4...

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9331/57873161.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=57873161.png)

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6571/tangerbypass.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tangerbypass.jpg)

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6931/dia944250563735101936.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/170/dia940251820795197986.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9108/dia941253142065323546.jpg

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4628/dia942253385285348911.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1855/dia943254499425470995.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6427/dia945255150325548262.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6315/dia939255589555565919.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

Puits à Malabata
http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/917312E5-9735-48D8-967B-A3DB74BE0934/74580/pozo_malabata_m1.png

Puits à Bolonia
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6290/pozobolonia575951557724.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

Études océanographiques

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8085/campagnesoceanographiqu.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3838/otracampagnesoceanograp.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

Galerie expérimentale de Tarifa

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/1A99B03F-4AE4-4EB1-A1E1-2C417511BCA1/74568/entrada_galeriaexperimental_tarifa.jpg

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/1A99B03F-4AE4-4EB1-A1E1-2C417511BCA1/74564/interior_galeria_exp_tarifa.jpg

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4250/galeriexptarifa26307716.jpg

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DA101ADC-A3F4-4154-A211-0E91F8BB97AE/76711/mapa_europa.gif

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DA101ADC-A3F4-4154-A211-0E91F8BB97AE/74215/tiempos_1.gif

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DA101ADC-A3F4-4154-A211-0E91F8BB97AE/76757/mercancias.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2519/folletoespnov0702c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7373/folletoespnov0703c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7735/folletoespnov0704c.jpg

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/9B9A735C-42E4-4292-9354-B9272DEDC3E5/73477/folleto_esp_nov07.pdf

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9210/folletoespnov0705c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/808/brochurefrnov0701c.jpg

sned.gov.ma

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/607/folletoespnov0707c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9814/brochurefr06c.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4634/folletoespnov0708c.jpg)

sned.gov.ma

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/135/folletoespnov0709c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3811/folletoespnov0710c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4202/stagesoftheproject01c.jpg

sned.gov.ma

qu'en est il de la reponse de la comission europeenne pour le financement de ce tunnel ?? j'ai chercher sur le net mais c'est le black out total...

qu'en est il de la reponse de la comission europeenne pour le financement de ce tunnel ?? j'ai chercher sur le net mais c'est le black out total...

Il y a eu la présentation commune du projet maroco-espagnol le 13 octobre. Depuis cette date j'ai cherché plusieurs fois, et je n'ai rien trouvé.

Hier encore, j'ai passé plusieurs 1 heure à chercher une info récente.

Même pas 1 ligne ou 1 dépêche indiquant une instruction du dossier. :ohno:

Pire que le dossier TGV. :lol:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1331/brochurefr01c.jpg (http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1331/brochurefr01c.jpg)

sned.gov.ma

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9726/brochurefr02.jpg

sned.gov.ma

Il y a eu la présentation commune du projet maroco-espagnol le 13 octobre. Depuis cette date j'ai cherché plusieurs fois, et je n'ai rien trouvé.

Hier encore, j'ai passé plusieurs 1 heure à chercher une info récente.

Même pas 1 ligne ou 1 dépêche indiquant une instruction du dossier. :ohno:

Pire que le dossier TGV. :lol:

laissons leurs un petit temp de reflexion :lol:
Mais bon c'est un silence qui n'augure rien de bon !

De plus un projet de 5Milliards sur 15 ans peut parfaitement etre financer rien que par le Maroc et l'espagne

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8897/brochurefr03c.jpg
sned.gov.ma

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2158/brochurefr04.jpg

http://www.sned.gov.ma/telecharger/brochure-fr.pdf
sned.gov.ma

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3711/brochurefr05.jpg

sned.gov.ma

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8585/frprincipalescaracteris.jpg

http://www.sned.gov.ma/pdf/Fr_Principales_Caracteristiques_du_Tunnel.pdf

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3320/brochurefr07c.jpg

sned.gov.ma

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9161/groupe01c.jpg

http://www.sned.gov.ma/telecharger/groupe.pdf

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/194/groupe02c.jpg

sned.gov.ma

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9089/groupe02cd.jpg

sned.gov.ma

Galerie expérimentale de Tarifa

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/1A99B03F-4AE4-4EB1-A1E1-2C417511BCA1/74568/entrada_galeriaexperimental_tarifa.jpg

http://www.secegsa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/1A99B03F-4AE4-4EB1-A1E1-2C417511BCA1/74564/interior_galeria_exp_tarifa.jpg

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4250/galeriexptarifa26307716.jpg

On en est donc à la phase 0 :D :

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9711/2copieu.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2copieu.jpg)



Etant donné que la galerie de secours qui fait office de galerie de reconnaissance, est déjà entamée, on pourrait mettre le tunnel en U-C. Mais ^^

Le Terminal Sud de la liaison ferroviaire prévue sous le détroit

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3282/groupe02cde.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9331/57873161.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=57873161.png)

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6571/tangerbypass.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tangerbypass.jpg)

Les entrées du tunnel sous la manche

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Wx8EyfkHAYY/SDaNUy8yfSI/AAAAAAAAA-I/CQoOIObM3Yc/eurotunnel01.jpg

http://www.aupaysdeschtis.com/galerie/Photos%6020Aeriennes/Tunnel-sous-la-manche-entree2.jpg

http://www.vincecorp.com/gearth/screenshots/screen_arrivee_tunnel.jpg

http://www.vincecorp.com/gearth/screenshots/screen_depart_tunnel2.jpg

Le Terminal Sud de la liaison ferroviaire prévue sous le détroit

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3282/groupe02cde.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9331/57873161.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=57873161.png)

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6571/tangerbypass.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tangerbypass.jpg)

Liaisons à la rocade urbaine :

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/171/3copieb.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3copieb.jpg)

Excellent travail Opti.

J'ai lu http://www.sned.gov.ma/telecharger/groupe.pdf

Voici la solution du pont qui n'a pas été retenue :

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8278/91342491.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=91342491.jpg)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8488/52847596.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/my.php?image=52847596.jpg)

Et pourquoi le tunnel a été choisi :

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8822/90773885.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=90773885.jpg)

Le planning :

Phase 0 : galerie de reconnaissance servant de galerie de secours

Phase 1 : Tunnel Ouest

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9559/50215188.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50215188.jpg)

edit

!!!! je croyait que ce n'était qu'un rêve utopique! depuis les 80's on disait la même chose mais je vois que cette fois c'est vrai...... ben je suis heureux alors :P
même si un pont aurait été beaucoup plus beau et symbolique: l'unification de deux continent grace à l'Homme, ou sinon, le développement des deux rives de la méditerranée
il ne reste maintenant qu'un tunnel entre la tunisie et la sicile ^^

!!!! je croyait que ce n'était qu'un rêve utopique! depuis les 80's on disait la même chose mais je vois que cette fois c'est vrai...... ben je suis heureux alors :P
même si un pont aurait été beaucoup plus beau et symbolique: l'unification de deux continent grace à l'Homme, ou sinon, le développement des deux rives de la méditerranée
il ne reste maintenant qu'un tunnel entre la tunisie et la sicile ^^

Faut pas s'emballer.

Rien n'a été décidé. Mais c'est vrai qu'il y a pas mal de travail qui a été fait.

On attend la réponse de la Comission Européenne. Le Maroc et l'Espagne ont mis le paquet pour la présentation.

Pray, wait and see

ben voila on a enfin un terrain d'entente entre les deux pays

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5027/9novec.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9novec.jpg)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1273/10noveccopie.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10noveccopie.jpg)

http://www.novec.ma/uploads/documents/barrages-ouvrages-souterrains.pdf

Le détroit de Gibraltar : les courants ; les projets de tunnel sous-marin

C. Vallaux Annales de Géographie Année 1930 Volume 39 Numéro 220 pp. 442-444

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2835/62506162.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=62506162.jpg)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7695/71977671.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71977671.jpg)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2134/66944188.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=66944188.jpg)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5315/68398841.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/my.php?image=68398841.jpg)





http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/geo_0003-4010_1930_num_39_220_10183#

Projet de pont flottant non retenu

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8019/49931228.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49931228.jpg)
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9026/82143296.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=82143296.jpg)
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9739/67254962.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/my.php?image=67254962.jpg)

Zoom
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5454/89168242.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89168242.jpg)

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9831/78458975.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/my.php?image=78458975.jpg)

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6341/89711835.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89711835.jpg)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3948/14591064.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14591064.jpg)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9360/63623964.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=63623964.jpg)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8019/40106231.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40106231.jpg)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2305/36977317.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36977317.jpg)

http://www.tdrinc.com/gibraltar.htm

Projet de pont retenu, entre les 2 points les plus étroits du détroit à cause d'une profondeur de 900m d'eau (+ les fondations). Technologie non maîtrisée.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4333/11opac.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11opac.jpg)

http://www.opacengineers.com/projects/Gibraltar

Spain and Morocco agree to rail tunnel under Gibraltar strait

By Vicky Short
5 January 2004

The governments of Spain and Morocco have taken a further step towards the building of a rail tunnel that will connect Europe and Africa, in what will be a historic technological feat. The Spanish Minister of Development Francisco Alvarez Cascos was quoted in Arabic News.com as stating that this tunnel will be “in the 21st century what the Suez Canal was in the 19th century and what the Panama Canal was in the 20th century.” By the time such a tunnel is in place a continuous rail link between the north of Scotland and Africa would be possible.

The agreement signed by Cascos and Moroccan Minister of Equipment and Transport Karim Ghellab is for a programme of engineering tests and studies and it is believed that digging under the strait could begin in five years time. According to the Spanish Transport Minister 27 million euros will be invested in this preliminary stage of geological survey by each of the two countries over the next three years.

It is thought that the tunnel will be 24 miles long, of which 17 miles will lie under the narrow and turbulent waters of the strait that connects the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea. It will descend between 100 and 300 metres under the sea. The most suitable route has initially been established as that between Punta Paloma, 40 kilometres west of Gibraltar, and Punta Malabata, near the Moroccan city of Tangiers. A shorter route to the east that would be only about 12 miles has been dismissed, as it would require boring 900 metres below sea level. The final route and depth will be decided only after detailed geological studies.

The tunnel will be made up of two rail tunnels and one service tunnel in the middle connecting the two, similar to the Channel Tunnel running between Britain and France. The service tunnel will be the first to be built and work could begin in 2008. Spain has already bored an experimental tunnel 560 metres long. Core samples of the rock beneath the strait will be taken in order to develop a picture of its geology. A similar experiment on the Moroccan side was sunk to 300 metres.

A joint committee was set up at the beginning of December between the two nations, which approved the 2004-2006 action plan and the budget of 27 million euros. Estimates of the final cost of the tunnel vary between three and 10 billion euros. Morocco and Spain will seek financial assistance from the European Union for research and infrastructure.

The project to build a rail tunnel linking Europe and Africa was first discussed between Spain and Morocco in the 1980s and several meetings have taken place since, some under the auspices of the United Nations. The linking of the two continents would be a major achievement that would enable the development of communications, trade and cooperation to an unprecedented level. However, this is not a project intended to benefit humanity: it is a commercial enterprise. As such, all manner of new conflicts between the nations involved and those who will want to be involved will emerge, particularly over control of the Arab Magreb, a union of Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Mauritania and Algeria, by the European countries.

Tensions between Spain and Morocco have a long history, particularly over the sovereignty of Western Sahara, a Spanish former colony, which Morocco annexed in 1975. Morocco accuses Spain of supporting the Polisario Front independence movement and it is blocking the UN from approving Morocco’s claim to sovereignty. Morocco insists on the principle of territorial integrity, while Spain supports a referendum on self-determination.

These tensions have intensified in the last few years, with continuing disputes about immigration, farming and the sovereignty of the two Spanish enclaves on African soil, Ceuta and Melilla, as well as some small islands. Just a year and a half ago there was an armed exchange when Spanish marines forcibly evicted some Moroccan soldiers from the island of Perejil, which both countries claim. Diplomatic relations came to a halt when Spain withdrew its ambassador and then Morocco withdrew its ambassador.

In addition Spain wants to prospect for oil in the waters between Morocco’s Atlantic coast and the Spanish Canary Islands. Spain also blames Morocco for the collapse of the European Union Agreement that allowed Spain to fish in Morocco’s rich waters.

The two countries have made an effort to improve their relations. Some weeks ago a Spain-Morocco summit took place in Marraquech, which was attended by a delegation from Spain headed by Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. The summit reached what was described as “the biggest economic cooperation agreement in Spain’s history”. Spain provided $476 million, $279 million of which will be used to finance projects by Spanish companies. Spain is the second biggest market for Morocco’s exports after France and its second biggest investor.

Two other agreements were signed concerning employment and the reestablishment of cultural relations. This was followed this month by an agreement on joint patrols against illegal immigrants and for Spain’s right to deport hundreds of unaccompanied minors held in detention centres back to Morocco, as well as cooperation against terrorism.

Already rightist forces are beginning to air their opposition to the tunnel, spreading fears of Spain being overtaken by “illegal immigrants”, citing Britain’s problems over the Channel Tunnel. It is believed that half a million people attempt to cross the strait every year into Spain as a route to the rest of Europe. Many of them drown when the small badly constructed boats capsize.

Additionally, racist objections are voiced about the danger of Spain being invaded by terrorists, as the tunnel will connect directly with a Muslim country.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/tunn-j05.shtml

A retenir :
- 300m creusés côté marocain
- 560m creusés côté espagnol
- coût estimé entre 3 et 10 milliards d'euros

Le tunnel sous la manche a coûté 4,6 milliards d'euros pour 50,5 km dont 37km sous la mer.


Tunnel sous la Manche

Longueur : 50,5 km.
Durée des travaux : six ans
Coût des travaux : 4,6 milliards d’euros.
Vitesse moyenne de construction : 23 mètres par jour.
Coût du mètre : 91 089 euros.
http://www.ps83.fr/TOULON-Le-Tunnel-le-plus-cher-du

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2519/folletoespnov0702c.jpg

secegsa.gob.es

La longeur entre les puits est de 28 100m.

300m ont été creusés côté marocain et 560m côté espagnol.

3,06 % de la distance (entre les puits) a déjà été creusé.

Doutes sur la faisabilité du tunnel entre le Maroc et l'Espagne

Defawe Philippe | 29/09/2008 | 18:11 | Transport et infrastructures


Une étude géologique remet en cause la faisabilité du projet de tunnel ferroviaire sous le détroit de Gibraltar entre l'Espagne et le Maroc, indique le quotidien El Pais dans son édition de dimanche.

La présence de deux portions argileuses au centre du détroit rend incertain la possibilité de percer le tunnel, selon le journal, qui cite une étude récemment parvenue à la société publique espagnole SECEG chargée, avec la marocaine SNED, de piloter le projet.

"Il n'est pas du tout clair que cela puisse se faire" a indiqué à El Pais le président de SECEG, Angel Aparicio. "Jamais des travaux publics ont fait face à de telles incertitudes", selon lui.

Le quotidien cite également un ingénieur travaillant sur cette réalisation, Andrea Panciera, pour qui le projet est entouré de "très grandes incertitudes" et qui propose de percer une "galerie de reconnaissance depuis la côte marocaine" jusqu'à la zone argileuse pour mener des tests sur ce terrain "non consolidé".

Mais une telle option alourdirait d'environ un milliard le coût final de l'ouvrage, chiffré à plus de cinq milliards d'euros et retarderait le projet d'environ huit ans, selon El Pais.

"Il est pratiquement impossible de trouver une solution de rechange" souligne encore le journal, indiquant qu'un tracé alternatif plus court avait été abandonné dans les années 90, tout comme l'idée de construire un pont au-dessus de la mer.

Ces incertitudes arrivent au mauvais moment, souligne encore El Pais car la ministre espagnole des Transports, Magdalena Alvarez et son homologue marocain Karim Ghallab, prévoyaient de se rendre à Luxembourg le 13 octobre pour plaider le projet auprès des ministres de l'UE afin d'obtenir un financement.

©AFP
http://www.lemoniteur.fr/147-transport-et-infrastructures/article/actualite/581783-doutes-sur-la-faisabilite-du-tunnel-entre-le-maroc-et-l-espagne

PVNrA2kU26E

489VM9i2N34

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2009/wp5/ECE-TRANS-WP5-2009-22-inf17f.pdf

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img574.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2848/ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ecetranswp5200922inf17f.jpg)