The statues are ruined by the sponsors logos imho, the Henry one doesn't even look like him.

This shot should be considered for any future statues imho

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_04/NistelrooyDM0111_468x949.jpg

Robin van Persie statue please

http://www.nationalturk.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/van-persie-nazi-salute-nationalturk-0273.jpg

LOL

LOL ? ?:?
With the flag of your avatar it can be bad perceived...

LOL ? ?:?
With the flag of your avatar it can be bad perceived...

The avatar is a well known (probably the most well known) picture symbolising the 1848 Revolutions, it's not meant to be about Germany per se despite the nationalist element to it.

It's like how people us the 'La Liberté guidant le peuple' picture as a symbol for liberty in general, despite a large French flag looming in it.


The Van Persie 'Hitler' salute is just fucking funny though, crack up every time I see it.

There are loads of candidates. George Graham, Dennis Bergkamp and Arsene Wenger are 3 more who spring to mind also worthy of a statue but still I wouldn't disagree with the 3 chosen.

Give an ex-spurs manager a statue :ohno:

360 panorama

http://www.arsenal.com/the-club/125th-anniversary-game-360-panorama

Give an ex-spurs manager a statue :ohno:

We gave an ex Spurs player one :tongue2: but yes I do agree that it does him no favours in regards to giving out statues.

I wouldn't choose that particular pose for a Van Persie statue hahah :lol:

Do any of the Gunner fans miss Highbury?

I remember reading (i think David Conn, but really not even 70% sure) that what's made the atmosphere worse, if you accept it is, is not the removal of terracing per se - If you go to the first 3/4 years after all-seating was introduced was the atmosphere really worse than before? Instead, it's the lack of young people (who tend to be the most vocal) and the growth of the season ticket, meaning fewer people in total saw games live. Basically, the end stands were where the cheapest tickets were and where you'd get groups of teenagers and guys in their 20s, with the faces rotating frequently bringing 'hunger' into the ground and having an effect on the atmosphere. Going to games was also a social event, you often hear of people saying it was like what clubbing became in the 90s - i.e. you would go with loads of mates, spending the whole day out between the match and the pub and by the end of the day you kind of had forgotten about the result and it was really all about that.

Not saying this is my view btw.
One other factor with terracing is that even on large terraces, you typically had certain areas of the terrace where the singing would start. Because you are free to pick and choose where you stand on a terrace you'd get the people who want to sing would tend to stand in the singing part, and the more passive fans would stand elsewhere. The families and day-trippers would typically go in the seats.

With all-seater grounds, all types of fans are mixed together, and the singers get diluted, making it much harder to get going.

While there is certainly a degree of misty-eyed nostalgia for terraces and the old atmosphere, there is no doubt at all that the old terraces atmospheres were considerably better than now. There was more singing, it was louder, and it even started earlier.

The freedom of movement, and the ability of different types of fan to watch alongside like-minded supporters is a big factor.

I've been to a large number of foreign grounds where they still have terracing, and the noisiest sections were always the terraces. It's not about standing up, it's about the people who choose to stand or not.

It sounds a bit daft, but standing on the terraces was somehow more fun as well. Part of that was the atmosphere, obviously, but you felt "part of the crowd" much more than you do from a seat, where you often feel like a mere spectator at times.

I remember going to Alemannia Aachen's old Tivoli ground a couple of years ago, and loved it, because it reminded me of night games at Elm Park.

One other factor with terracing is that even on large terraces, you typically had certain areas of the terrace where the singing would start. Because you are free to pick and choose where you stand on a terrace you'd get the people who want to sing would tend to stand in the singing part, and the more passive fans would stand elsewhere. The families and day-trippers would typically go in the seats.

With all-seater grounds, all types of fans are mixed together, and the singers get diluted, making it much harder to get going.

While there is certainly a degree of misty-eyed nostalgia for terraces and the old atmosphere, there is no doubt at all that the old terraces atmospheres were considerably better than now. There was more singing, it was louder, and it even started earlier.

The freedom of movement, and the ability of different types of fan to watch alongside like-minded supporters is a big factor.

I've been to a large number of foreign grounds where they still have terracing, and the noisiest sections were always the terraces. It's not about standing up, it's about the people who choose to stand or not.

It sounds a bit daft, but standing on the terraces was somehow more fun as well. Part of that was the atmosphere, obviously, but you felt "part of the crowd" much more than you do from a seat, where you often feel like a mere spectator at times.

Spot on. The more vocal support would normally congregate near the back of the terrace where you could be more anonymous and the roof had more effect on the noise. You're also right saying that songs and chants started a lot earlier before kick off.

On the other side of the coin, during nothing games, stadiums were often as quiet as they are these days and usually emptier.

^^Did you get large empty sections where fans left before the 90 was up to beat the rush like now (ignoring heavy home defeats)? Emirates like Old Trafford seems pretty bad for that.

-

A few years ago whilst I was spent a summer in Brazil I went to catch a league match at the Maracana, Flamengo-Cruzeiro. Most foreigners tend to get tickets via agencies linked up to hostels and hotels (imagine the same happens in Argentina and other places), so basically a package where a third party buys the tickets and you get dumped in a pre-picked area at silly costs, but all the hassle is taken care off. My girlfriend at the time was Brazilian, so we just caught a bus to the ground early to buy tickets DIY-style, the place already humming with a few home fans around these laughable postbox sized outlets and sort of meshed fenced.

Anyway, despite being 'all-seater' you didn't get allocated seats like many grounds here, instead the ground was split via large sections based on colour and once bought you could go anywhere in the whole section, just take your pick. The 'seats' were often those crappy plastic covers with no backs like the San Siro use to have, or just quite poor quality ones with backs. Once at the ground, around 40 mins before KO, the end section was already packed with 'ultras' (they're a bit different in Brazil, they've been around since the 40s at least) letting off flares, chanting, etc. There was no build up music or other type of pre-match entertainment from what I remember, or they were really low-key. My section had virtually everyone standing for the majority (was a bit empty though) with a few fanatics wandering around going nuts as Cruzeiro were dominating.

I just bring this up because it's probably the closest I've gotten to how it use to be here and when thinking about it it's incredible how much changed in the space of less than a decade.

Millwall have unallocated seating iirc

^^Did you get large empty sections where fans left before the 90 was up to beat the rush like now (ignoring heavy home defeats)? Emirates like Old Trafford seems pretty bad for that.

No but again crowds in the 70s and 80s averaged around 30 or 40 thousand and the strain on the surrounding infrastructure probably wasn't so great.

Spot on. The more vocal support would normally congregate near the back of the terrace where you could be more anonymous and the roof had more effect on the noise. You're also right saying that songs and chants started a lot earlier before kick off.

Is that not because you had to get there earlier to get your place as you generally didn't know how many would turn up?

On the other side of the coin, during nothing games, stadiums were often as quiet as they are these days and usually emptier.

Isn't that the point though? Revisionist history has told us otherwise.

I remember going to Alemannia Aachen's old Tivoli ground a couple of years ago, and loved it, because it reminded me of night games at Elm Park.

Iirc I think Alemanniafan said that atmoshpere at the new stadium isn't as good as the old stadium despite the fact that they still have terracing because the terrace is at one end only rather than all round the stadium like in the old ground. So could you argue a large part of it was where the terracing was located as much as how many people it could hold?

Is that not because you had to get there earlier to get your place as you generally didn't know how many would turn up?
No it was rare that you didn't have enough space in the North Bank or Clock End to get where you wanted. It was only when the attendance was over fifty thousand that you couldn't. Also the the chanting would start as soon as there was a crowd forming and pretty much regardless of opposition. Having said all that during a boring game the atmosphere could often fizzle out.

Having said all that during a boring game the atmosphere could often fizzle out.

As bigbossman said earlier, that's more natural and fitting with the rhythm of the game compared to constant chanting and bouncing around regardless.

It was Highbury though don't forget.....;)

As bigbossman said earlier, that's more natural and fitting with the rhythm of the game compared to constant chanting and bouncing around regardless.

I agree.

^^Did you get large empty sections where fans left before the 90 was up to beat the rush like now (ignoring heavy home defeats)? Emirates like Old Trafford seems pretty bad for that.
With terraces it's less noticeable if people sneak out early. Seats, probably because they are often brightly coloured plastic, shows those gaps fairly obviously. If somebody leaves a terrace you just see the person behind them.

3000 people in a 4000 place terrace won't look hugely different from 4000 in there, whereas it would look very different in a seated area.

Is that not because you had to get there earlier to get your place as you generally didn't know how many would turn up?

Barring capacity (or near) crowds, that wasn't really much of an issue as you don't have "a space" on a terrace in the same way you have a seat. You could normally stand more or less where you wanted, although a bit of common sense usually prevailed. People would typically aim to stand in an approximate area of the ground rather than an exact position.


Isn't that the point though? Revisionist history has told us otherwise.
Certainly the idea that terraces were a 90 minute wall of noise is blatantly wrong, but there was much more singing than now.

Iirc I think Alemanniafan said that atmoshpere at the new stadium isn't as good as the old stadium despite the fact that they still have terracing because the terrace is at one end only rather than all round the stadium like in the old ground. So could you argue a large part of it was where the terracing was located as much as how many people it could hold?

I think it was also suggested that the club somehow gained an ultras style support, whereas before it was much more similar to an old English atmosphere - and the two types of supporters clashed rather than (literally and figuratively) singing from the same songsheet.

The expected rise in crowds also didn't materialise, which may have been partly due to a dip in team fortunes. The terraces were very popular though, and one impact of that was to make the seats (and most of the ground) look quite empty. Bright yellow seats don't help in that regard.

I'm not sure if the position of the terrace is that critical. Like at Elm Park, the most vocal element at the Tivoli was unusually down a side terrace (both grounds had uncovered ends) and the new Tivoli's terrace is at an end, but unless some of the old singers moved to the side seats rather than the end, it shouldn't be an issue.

wow.

Can anyone tell me how many new stadiums are under construction or planned in London? There seems to be quite a few big ones.



thats actually the thing i want to know..^^

I'm a fan of Arsenal FC and is a fantastic stadium

Surprised the seats have faded this much. :ohno:

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/2342/47522352.jpg

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8025/60983308.jpg

Surprised the seats have faded this much. :ohno:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8025/60983308.jpg

Wow, really seems sooo pale. Could it be because of the camera angle, texture, sunlight angle, anything that might be misleading?

Below is my photo of the very same player seats from 2008:

http://i39.tinypic.com/rm91lf.jpg

Red always fades badly for some reason.

Take any stadium with faded seats, and 90% of the time they'll be red seats.

still looks better than the stadium of light's seats!

The Emirates stadium seems to be like Wembley's younger sister.
Banal and corporate looking with little character - looks
more like a conference centre than a stadium.

^^You mean "brother". Not every building is a female.

^^

Indeed I stand corrected.

:)

The Emirates stadium seems to be like Wembley's younger sister.
Banal and corporate looking with little character - looks
more like a conference centre than a stadium.

Do you have a particular stadium exterior in mind that looks better by any chance?

:yawn:


A couple of concretey panels aside, The Emirates is fine from the outside, and looks nothing the Wembley. It definitely looks like a stadium. You can ever see the top tier from outside, and tell exactly what the building is.....unlike, ahem, certain stadium exteriors I could mention.

A couple of concretey panels aside, The Emirates is fine from the outside, and looks nothing the Wembley. It definitely looks like a stadium. You can ever see the top tier from outside, and tell exactly what the building is.....unlike, ahem, certain stadium exteriors I could mention.
As much as I agree with you on the top tier and roof that save the stadiumness (?) of this stadium, I also agree with oxo that it's very, very mediocre from the outside (I would add inside after having been there). Even with the latest mural and all the "Arsenalisation" campaign (which is really pathetic for a club to think about club identity years after opening a stadium instead of doing it while planning).

I think we all agree it's very modern and does a great job as a business facility, but I guess what I share with oxo is expecting less corporate and more passionate approach from a stadium...

The Emirates stadium seems to be like Wembley's younger sister.
Banal and corporate looking with little character - looks
more like a conference centre than a stadium.


if the european average stadium was like this one i would be happy.

Last year CL match Arsenal vs Barcelona was great with a fantastic ambiance.

people should stop to troll

Love the Emirates. I've seen a few matches over there, it's absolutely cracking. Definitely one of my favourites in the whole world.

#goonerfamily

a magnificent stadium,, if in Indonesia there are stadiums like this

if the european average stadium was like this one i would be happy.

Last year CL match Arsenal vs Barcelona was great with a fantastic ambiance.

people should stop to troll

Couldn't agree with you more. If every European stadium was like the Emirates, it would be perfect. For one, I think the 60,000 size should be the biggest that Euro stadiums are. Not too big, not too small. Just right for the big clubs.

I also always think back to the Arsenal Barca match as really the best that European football has to offer. On TV it just looked and sounded amazing.

^^

If every stadium in Europe was like the Emirates it would be perfect???

Dull and depressing more like.

I suggest you take a look at some of the stadiums recently completed for the Euro 2012 Championships in the Ukaine and Poland - some real gems there.

people should stop to troll
Yes Axel, if only :)

^^

If every stadium in Europe was like the Emirates it would be perfect???

Dull and depressing more like.
true.

^^

If every stadium in Europe was like the Emirates it would be perfect???

Dull and depressing more like.

I suggest you take a look at some of the stadiums recently completed for the Euro 2012 Championships in the Ukaine and Poland - some real gems there.

Have you ever actualy been to Arsenal or is your view of this ground solely club biased ?

Have you ever actualy been to Arsenal or is your view of this ground solely club biased ?

No. Nothing against Arsenal. Great club, great tradition.
Been passed it quite a few times on the train and went there once.

In any case, its not all bad news - the inside of Arsenal's stadium is
impressive.

How far is it between the goal line and the first row bihind it? It looks really far away.

^^

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=59436617&postcount=3552

^^

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=59436617&postcount=3552

Wow, that is horrible. And also the stand is really flat. I wouldn't want to sit behind that goal line. It must be hard to see what's going on at the other side of the pitch...:ohno:

That's a shame.

EDIT: How close/far are the sidelines?

^^

If every stadium in Europe was like the Emirates it would be perfect???

Dull and depressing more like.

I suggest you take a look at some of the stadiums recently completed for the Euro 2012 Championships in the Ukaine and Poland - some real gems there.

I have, and while some of them look quite nice I suspect they will be quite empty, quite frequently once Euro 2012 is over and the resident clubs take over. Say what you like about the Emirates being corporate and boring but at least it is full for most of Arsenal's home games despite high ticket prices.

Wow, that is horrible. And also the stand is really flat. I wouldn't want to sit behind that goal line. It must be hard to see what's going on at the other side of the pitch...:ohno: While I agree that's hardly ideal be sure to recall that the club were constrained with a height limitation that meant in order to achieve the desired capacity range the seating would have to be pushed back, at which point the shallower tier is at least more manageable as you're looking more out than down. It's another reason the proposed new White Hall Lane would have roughly 4k less seats, though arguably better sightlines within that lower tier. Had Arsenal kept this slope but move the stands closer it would be all the tougher for fans in the back to follow the action close to the end lines.

I have, and while some of them look quite nice I suspect they will be quite empty, quite frequently once Euro 2012 is over and the resident clubs take over. Say what you like about the Emirates being corporate and boring but at least it is full for most of Arsenal's home games despite high ticket prices.
They will probably be half-empty (or half-full if you're an optimist), but where's Poland in terms of football and where's Arsenal? :)

That said, Arsenal stadium when full is still amazingly dull, I simply cannot stand watching games there (only on TV, though, it was empty when I visited it). But taking into account that almost every single away team has louder following at Emirates than the home side, I'd tell you the Euro 2012 stadiums will provide way better atmosphere even when half empty and even despite the draconian laws introduced, tougher than English in many aspects. Which brings us exactly to the point oxo was making: Emirates is full, but full of corporate clients with a very small, outnumbered minority trying to provide any sort of spectacle off the pitch. Which, again, means it's corporate and boring, really.

How far is it between the goal line and the first row bihind it? It looks really far away.

Health and safety.

They will probably be half-empty (or half-full if you're an optimist), but where's Poland in terms of football and where's Arsenal? :)

That said, Arsenal stadium when full is still amazingly dull, I simply cannot stand watching games there (only on TV, though, it was empty when I visited it). But taking into account that almost every single away team has louder following at Emirates than the home side, I'd tell you the Euro 2012 stadiums will provide way better atmosphere even when half empty and even despite the draconian laws introduced, tougher than English in many aspects. Which brings us exactly to the point oxo was making: Emirates is full, but full of corporate clients with a very small, outnumbered minority trying to provide any sort of spectacle off the pitch. Which, again, means it's corporate and boring, really.

So name a premiership ground where every game is amazingly exuberant. Minority always making the more noise ? How would you know ?

And as for draconian laws governing english football , dont get me started.

So name a premiership ground where every game is amazingly exuberant. Minority always making the more noise ? How would you know ?
How would I know? I'm in constant contact with groundhoppers and supporters from various countires, which - not really surprisingly - means England as well. Emirates is in fact the one with worst reputation I know (and if second worst, what does it change? not much), though I'm far from naming any English club with exuberant atmosphere.

And as for draconian laws governing english football , dont get me started.
I don't have to, I know them ;)

The Emirates stadium seems to be like Wembley's younger sister.
Banal and corporate looking with little character - looks
more like a conference centre than a stadium.

WTF. The stadium is great.
And what the heck does it have to do with Wembley? There's like 20 other smaller stadiums in London than Emirates, it's not a competition between those two.
The only thing is that it could have been bigger, like 80k or something, cuz Arsenal always has a very high attendance but they couldn't have made it bigger because of height limitation for the zone or some shit.
Yeah, Highbury was so unique if you want, but there's a time for everything and the old stadium was too small and unexpandable.

Personally, if you are going to pick a stadium in Europe that they all should look like, it should be Porto's ground, the Estadio do Dragao.

Wow, that is horrible. And also the stand is really flat. I wouldn't want to sit behind that goal line. It must be hard to see what's going on at the other side of the pitch...:ohno:

That's a shame.

EDIT: How close/far are the sidelines?

Yeah, it really is a joke! :ohno:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9008/viewonemiratespitchfrom.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/viewonemiratespitchfrom.jpg/)

r33qoXBwAaU

loved that vid of the Spurs game..especially the pitchside camera...and seeing the reaction of the crowd

^^
Not sure if this is what you mean but here you go
http://www.awimb.com/emAlbum/albums/Ashburton%20Grove/STADIUM%20PLAN.JPG

too bad there are no scales in this image, for comparing with other stadiums... :(

WTF. The stadium is great.
And what the heck does it have to do with Wembley? There's like 20 other smaller stadiums in London than Emirates, it's not a competition between those two.
The only thing is that it could have been bigger, like 80k or something, cuz Arsenal always has a very high attendance but they couldn't have made it bigger because of height limitation for the zone or some shit.
Yeah, Highbury was so unique if you want, but there's a time for everything and the old stadium was too small and unexpandable.

To be hounest I never realy liked Highburry that much... I like this one better and that says something. Normaly I prefer the old stadiums.
This one is good. The sight lines are not that bad and the stadium looks good.
Nice copy of da luz!!!:runaway:

The great thing about Highbury was how it looked on TV, with its lowered camera. Had an incredible atmosphere about it, especially at night. And that scoreboard in the corner of course.

Not so much camera angle, the fans were much closer to the pitch, better atoms surely! Dunno if this is possible at the new stadium with undersoil heating, drainage etc.

or better atmos! (my bad, sorry!)

No atmosphere whatsoever :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1k0pCqwiVM

Club Level at the Emirates:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6018/clublevel2png.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/256/clublevel2png.jpg/)

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3615/clublevel3png.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/clublevel3png.jpg/)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6633/clublevel6png.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/clublevel6png.jpg/)

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9086/testpng.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/testpng.jpg/)

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/4866/clublevel4png.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/clublevel4png.jpg/)

Too far away from pitch. sucks.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6961500517_d7211ca647_b.jpg

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/dec_10/gun__1293116581_Stadium_large.jpg