View Full Version : Greek Automobile Industry


GrigorisSokratis
June 4th, 2006, 07:32 AM
Since I was a kid I've been concerned with the Automobile industry of Greece, unfortunately back in those days my only sources of information were the people, actually pessimistic stubborn people who used to tell me that Greece wasn't a car manufacturer country, and despite I grew watching buses and even cars sometimes with some Greek brand names on them (like ELBO or Sarakakis among others) all the answers I got from the adults were, no Grigori, we don't manufacture cars in Greece, those names are importers even answers like it's all fake buddy, Greece doesn't have any industry......our only incomes are from tourism....well the feedback to all those answers is BS!!!! as in bull.... ;) . Though my disappointment vanished at once 10 years ago being a pubescent when an automobiles magazine reached my hands, it was dedicated entirely to the ELBO vehicles manufacturing industry located in Thessaloniki, where most of the buses we have nowadays in Athens or Thessaloniki (as well as in many Balkan countries, parts of Italy eastern Europe and even distant markets as Singapore Latin America and the middle east with older models) are built in a 100% not just assembled but made in Greece by Greek companies. After that and so far with the help of Internet my research on the issue continued and I can tell you guys and everyone, Greece indeed manufactures automobile vehicles.

Though our share in the international automobiles market is not that big and even in Greece the competition with foreign brands is hard some of our brands are still alive and some of them holding big promises. Though currently the main productions are focused on buses, jeeps, trucks or rural vehicles there are some plans to start making again cars, no foreign designed cars, but greek ones, as in the past. There is even a great sport car designed and made in 1992 that you won't believe your eyes, when some lines below, you'll be watching its picture.

Finally before finishing this, maybe for some people, boring introduction (that I needed to express, believe me now I feel better) I have to point out that this large guide is divided into brands (and there are many of them by the way) and beginning from its first days, since Greece believe it or not has been involved in this product industry from 1918!!!! Even before some of the nowadays leading countries. Well enough for now, let's get down to brass tacks. The funny part, enjoy it.
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Theologou

Theologou (full name appearing on vehicle badges was "N. Theologou") was one of the first vehicle manufaturers in Greece. It was created by Nikos Theologou, a Greek mechanic who had previously lived and worked in the US, and founded this company after he returned to Athens, Greece. Between 1918 and 1920 he designed and constructed a light passenger car with a Pierce 750 cc motorcycle engine (only one built). His company, nonetheless, produced a variety of bus and truck bodies, mostly on Ford chassis in the 1920s.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Theologou.jpg

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Biamax

BIAMAX has perhaps been the best known Greek vehicle manufacturer, being, at the same time one of the biggest Greek companies at its time with three factories (in Athens, where its headquarters, Thessaloniki and Larissa, employing more than 2000) and several other auxilliary facilities throughout the country. Except for a large Greek company, BIAMAX became a leading industry in that country, in areas including Quality Assurance, technical training, process documentation and Research&Development.

Although its main activity was vehicle manufacture, some of its subsidiaries were also involved in areas like tourist services, exports of farm products and shipping.

The company with that name was founded in 1956, the name reflecting its original activity, as it started with production of bus bodies on Mercedes-Benz chassis (BIAMAX, stands for 'Biomihania Amaxomaton', or 'Vehicle Body Building Industry'; the name was retained although the company soon became a complete vehicle producer). The first chassis developed by BIAMAX was introduced in 1961. In the same year the famous 'R' series of coaches and inter-city buses was introduced. One of the earliest chassisless bus designs in the world, it was an engineering achievement involing novel approaches in suspension and elswhere, developed by the engineers A. Rizos (who lent his name initial to the series) and I. Dracoulis (who was responsible for its extremely elegant, streamlined design). Models R495 (inter-city bus) and R514 (coach) became common sights in the country, establishing the BIAMAX brand. In 1962 a trolleybus was introduced with CGE electricals, of which only one was built, serving Athens for years.

The very successful 'F' series of city and inter-city buses (named after Fostiropoulos initial, a designation used earlier as well) was introduced in 1968 employing a ladder-type chassis developed by BIAMAX).

The most common types produced were the F530 and F580, with several body variations for a variety of end uses. At the same time BIAMAX kept producing an extended range of bus and truck bodies, rolling stock, assembling 4x4's and tractors etc., with thousands of vehicles coming out of its factories, many of which were exported to a large number of countries, mainly in Europe, Asia and Africa. R580 types can be seen to this date working hard in the Middle East. Indeed, the legendary reliability of BIAMAX buses can be testified by the large number of surviving examples, most of them in excellent working condition. The company faced difficulties in the early 1980s when some Middle Eastern markets were lost but, mostly, due to a new law allowing import of used buses in Greece. It soon ceased production, focusing on vehicle import and distribution. Since 1999 all trading activity ceased as well, and the company exists ever since as a real estate management firm.

A technically advanced beauty: Biamax R514 (1961 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/BIAMAX_R514.jpg

Also designed by Dracoulis: Biamax F600 trolleybus (1962 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7b/Biamax_trolley.jpg/756px-Biamax_trolley.jpg

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Sfakianakis

Sfakianakis group of companies is a Greek conglomerate with a wide range of activities employing (in 2005) over 1600 in three countries; its origins were based on vehicle manufacture. It was founded in 1961 succeeding earlier trading companies founded by the same family. Initially building bodies on imported chassis, it soon developed its own chassis family. The company's SS500 chassis ('SS' standing for 'Stratis Sfakianakis') was subsequently further developed, and a great variety of bus types was designed and built over it in the following years, with limited exports to Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Other industrial activities included construction of truck bodies and Japanese Hino chassis assembly. The company was renamed Sfakianakis S.A. in 1993 and among the last types it designed and produced were the SS400 and SS380 minibuses and a new series of SS500 inter-city and coach variants. The Sfakianakis industrial division had managed to survive for decades without any state support, despite fierce competition from imports; a flood of cheaper imports, though, eventually made bus manufacture unprofitable. Production ceased in February 2006, after the group had very successfully diversified into other business areas including vehicle import and sales and the services sector.

Sfakianakis Police Bus, one of many specialized types developed for state authorities and organizations
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Sfakianakis_police.jpg

Sfakianakis SS380L minibus (2003)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cc/SfakianakisSS380L.jpg/800px-SfakianakisSS380L.jpg

Sfakianakis SS500LF coach (2005)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/SfakianakisSS500LF.jpg

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Saracakis

Saracakis Brothers group of companies is a major Greek Commercial and Industrial group, for two decades a traditional competitor to Biamax (between themselves the two companies virtually dominated the bus market in Greece). Two of the most talented Greek vehicle engineers who had worked for Biamax, A. Rizos and I. Dracoulis also worked for Saracakis, Dracoulis having designed the company's characteristic 'Σ' logo, recognizable anywhere in the country.

Ioannis Saracakis started his company in Thessaloniki in 1923 importing and selling vehicles and vehicle parts. In 1941 headquarters were moved to Athens, where the Group was formally created in 1954. Production of bus bodies on imported chassis started in 1962, but in 1966 the company introduced its own-developed chassis.

From then on, all Saracakis' own chassis types had designations starting with 'SB' (standing for 'Saracakis Brothers') the first being the SB55 line, on which a variety of city and inter-city buses were developed, followed by SB556, SB85 and SB95. Its first chassisless bus type was the SBAV of 1974, a type improved over the years up to the innovative SBAV90 of 1990. Exports were also made, mainly to the Middle East. In addition to building complete vehicles (which included light three-wheeler trucks), the company remained a major bus and truck body builder, also assembling 4x4's, tractors, motorbikes, construction equipment, etc.

The company boasts the world's first low-floor articulated bus.

Saracakis survived the storm of the early 1980s (opening of the market to used imports) that almost wiped out the Greek Commercial Vehicle industry, but its import and trading sectors became predominant. Construction of complete vehicles has stopped, but production of bodies continues to date, on a limited scale.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Saracakis_logo.gif

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Namco (the stubborness of these guys is funny but also optimistic)

Namco (National Motor Company of Greece) is a Greek vehicle manufacturer, a creation of the Kontogouris Brothers who have been in the automotive industry business since the 1950s.

The first efforts of the Kontogouris Brothers involved building light trucks called 'Hellas' in Germany. In 1957 Petros Kontogouris acquired rights to a production technology of a multi-purpose vehicle developed by Dr. Wilfried Fahr, who founded an engineering company in Switzerland. In 1961 Kontogouris created their first company called FARCO in Thessaloniki, Greece to produce the vehicle, called FARMOBIL. Ironically, this smart vehicle was not certified for the Greek market and all production was exported to several countries around the world. In 1963 the company was acquired by Chrysler who renamed it Chrysler Hellas S.A. In 1967 production in Greece was stopped by the U.S. company, and was transferred to other countries. Meanwhile, in 1961 ambitious plans were made by the Kontogouris Brothers for a new company (to be called Namco) with a big factory in Patras, Greece to produce under licence a German-designed (Neckar) three-wheeler truck and other vehicles, but were not materialized.

Namco would resurface in 1972, when a light passenger-utility vehicle called the 'Pony' was introduced in the Thessaloniki Trade Fair. The car, of rather basic technology, had been designed by Citroen on an 2CV platform as part of 'basic world car' project. Indeed, cars on the same basis were produced around the world from Iran to Portugal, but the Pony became by far the most successful. In 1974 Namco started business officially and production started in a new plant in Thessaloniki. The Pony, helped by a law giving tax breaks for light utility-passenger vehicles became an instant success, being the cheapest car in the market and, at the same time, an incredibly robust and practical automobile (about half a dozen Greek companies would follow Namco's example, with similar contraptions, none of which, though, came close to Pony's success). A large number of versions and facelifts followed, keeping the car up to standards. Almost 30,000 Pony's were produced, while exports to many countries around the world were made through Citroen network, as the car also bear the Citroen logo.


Namco Milicar 6x6 (1978)In 1978 Namco decided to move into other fields, introducing a series of very advanced 4x4 and 6x6 multi-purpose trucks featuring a novel Swiss-designed suspension system. A complete lineup was made for many uses, consisting of the 'Agricar', 'Milicar', 'Pyrcar' and 'Multi-trac' vehicles. It is somewhat of a mystery why those advanced vehicles had limited success, only small numbers having been ordered by Greek state authorities. Similarly Namco designed a number of military vehicles including the 'Tiger' and 'Aquilles' armored vehicles and 4x4's, none of which reached even the stage of complete prototype. It has been argued that it was simply the wrong time, since the Greek state favored a state company (ELBO) for its supplies in that period.


Namco Pony Super (1990 model)The first generation Pony was produced until 1983, after the law concerning taxation of similar vehicles had been changed. Plans to manufacture other cars under licence were not realized and for a moment it seemed that Namco would once more be out of business. But the company would resurface again with a completely new model, Pony Super, introduced in 1985. The second generation Pony had no connection with Citroen technology and was a much more modern car with Ford engines, coming in a large number of versions (950cc 45hp, 1100cc 55hp, 1300cc 69hp and 1600cc 54 hp Diesel, in two- and four-door arrangements). It was essentially developed by Namco, since Inthelco, a German company also involved in its development was majority-owned by Namco at the time. An ambitious plan was made to export the car to the U.S. with a 1900cc engine via Inthelco as the 'Desta' at a rate of 20.000 per year. However, the costs and prospects proved to be grossly miscalculated and the plan was abandoned. No matter how improved the new Pony was, it was still a far cry from the needs of the contemporary Greek market made of progressively more affluent and demanding consumers. Only a few hundred Pony Super's were built until 1992.

Once more, when it seemed that Namco would vanish, the company created one more chance for rebirth, as its founders were stubbornly attached to the car-making business. So, although they also diversified into imports and trade of vehicles keeping Namco alive, they transformed the company into a technology exporter, offering design and construction of vehicle producing miniplants (as an antidote, they argued, to the giant conglomerates created by globalism) together with the Pony and their 4x4 truck technology. In 1994, the first Pony Super's produced under licence in Bulgaria came out of the assembly plant in that country.

Namco is still alive today, indeed representing the stubbornness and vision of its creators. It is characteristic that production of the Pony Super and the trucks never "officially" ended, as the company maintains a factory ready to resume production. Actually, a "third-generation" Pony (in reality a Pony Super with minor improvements) was introduced in 2003. One who knows Namco's history, can only wait until the next dynamic resurfacing of the company.

Namco Milicar 6x6 (1978)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/Namco_Milicar.jpg

Namco Pony Super (1990 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/Namco_Pony_Super.jpg

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Neorion (Neorion my friend, you'll be interested with this one :) )

Neorion is one of the most historic Greek engineering companies, located in Ermoupolis, on the Greek island of Syros. Today, it is one of the few remaining major industrial corporations in that picturesque and nostalgic island town that used to be the industrial and commercial heart of Greece, before eclipsed by Piraeus in the late 19th century.

Neorion roots go back to a traditional shipyard on that island, known for the construction of ships and boats for use during the Greek revolution of the 1820s, as well as design and building of “modern battleships” for the new Greek kingdom in the decades that followed. The company that survives to date was legally founded in 1861 to technically support the “Greek Steamship lines Company”, initially employing, in addition to Greek technical staff, several mechanics from W. Europe. In the 1860s, in addition to ship building it already produced steam engines, boilers, pumps, heavy cannons, as well as its first steamship. A heavy steam engine of its own design and construction received attention when exhibited in an International Exhibition in Paris in 1878, while since 1892 the company produced all-metal steamships. In 1898 the name ‘Neorion’ (an ancient Greek word indicating a port facility for ship repair and construction) was adopted. Already during the second half of the 19th century it was the second most important Greek engineering company after the famous Basileiades machine and steam engine manufacturer in Piraeus. Other products of Neorion included a variety of machinery (some of it exported), engine parts and other specialized metal constructions for the Greek industry.

In the following decades Neorion faced many challenges that almost lead it into going out of business, but managed to survive, remaining one of the most important Greek shipyards. In 1972, under the ownership of the Greek millionaire G.Goulandris it acquired Enfield Automotive Ltd., a British company involved in the design and construction of electric cars. A new company, ‘Enfield-Neorion E.P.E.’ was formed, headquartered in Piraeus, and basic production was transferred to Syros (the vehicles being finished in the United Kingdom). A young Greek designer, Georgios Michael (later credited with the design of several Greek vehicles) was employed with the new company. The ‘E 8000 Bicini’ (with that spelling) light jeep-type vehicle introduced in 1973 was a Greek design, but was not produced due to bureaucratic hurdles created by Greek tax services, connected with its electric power. In 1974 a “pure” Neorion development was undertaken, to materialize a vision of G. Goulandris himself, of a luxury limousine with strong 4x4 character. A team of Greek engineers including Georgios Michael worked in Syros for 8 months, leading to the creation of the ‘Chicago’, introduced in 1974. The car, built on Jeep Wagoneer chassis base was extremely controversial, being a huge limousine with retro-styling, featuring hard-core 4x4 characteristics and was put down even by its own designer. Indeed, Georgios Michael would later describe it as “mountain dinosaur”. Today, in view of the 4x4 passenger cars that have appeared ever since, as well as the breed of luxury SUV’s, the car does not look terribly strange anymore; one could actually dare say that it in a way it was ahead of its time. A production line had been started, when a change of Greek law condemned the market prospects of the car. Two were completed and sold to customers before the venture was terminated in 1976. One still survives to date, exhibited in the Thessaloniki Technological Museum.

Neorion shipyards itself continued its course. In 1997 it acquired another big shipyard, Elefsis Shipyards, while it diversified into new fields (like the construction of luxury mega-yachts, and even subcontracting work for aerospace companies) and is fully active today in the form of the powerful Neorion Group of Companies, having entered a new era in its long history.

1974 Neorion Chicago
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Neorion_Chicago.jpg

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ELBO

ELBO (standing for “Elliniki Biomihania Ohimaton”, or Hellenic Vehicle Industry), is a Greek vehicle manufacturer. This company is one that managed to survive the evolutions that basically wiped out the Greek motor industry in the 1980s and 1990s, as it was the only state-owned company in its field.

It was founded in Thessaloniki with the name Steyr Hellas S.A. and until the early 1980s the Austrian company owned a significant part of its capital. The Greek state acquired a majority of the company in 1986, when it was renamed ELBO. Its original activity in the 1970s was assembly, with progressively increasing local content, of trucks, motorbikes and farm tractors.

Orders by the Greek state soon gave momentum to the company as it undertook huge orders for trucks and buses by the Greek military and a number of state and city authorities (some say, at the expense of other Greek companies).

The Greek company's first original design was a military bus introduced in 1981. In the same year it undertook the construction of “its own” ‘Leonidas’ Armored Personnel Carrier.

In 1987 ELBO introduced Leonidas-2, Hundreds were built, while a number of different versions were proposed.

In the years that followed ELBO became a major producer of military and civilian trucks for a variety of uses, military jeeps, customized vehicles and machinery, and buses, with significant exports.

ELBO-bodied buses exported to Singapore in 1996 were welcomed by that country’s press as the first low-floor buses in the wider region.

A number of ambitious plans for company development and new products were not realized, as the state character of the company linked it to effects from government changes and mismanagement.

ELBO rather surprised many in 1998, introducing an extremely advanced Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle of its own design and development, named Kentaurus. However, the vehicle to this date has not been ordered by the Greek military due to reduced budgets. Another step towards original developments was its initiative for the creation of a light sports car, which was assigned to TWT, a German-Greek engineering company. The prototype of the 'ELBO Aletis', an attractive car designed by Pininfarina with Volkswagen engine, was introduced in the Internationale Automobil-Ausstellung in Frankfurt in 2001, but was never produced.

In 2000 ELBO was partly privatised, when the Greek Mytilineos metal and engineering group acquired 43% and undertook the company management. The fate of this company in a new age of globalism and intense international competition, anymore depends on its own creativity and resources.

ELBO C93800 Europe (1993)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/ELBO_Europe.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/astiko.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/typical.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/astiko_diplo.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/electro.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/urban_truck_general.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/pressa.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/vitioforo.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/hummer.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/leonidas01.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/leonidas02.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/kentauros01.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/kentauros_C130.jpg

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Petropoulos

Petropoulos (the full name of the company is Petros Petropoulos A.E.B.E.) is one of the 'historic' Greek engine and vehicle manufacturers. It was founded in Thessaloniki in 1922 (its origins being even older, from a workshop involved in metal processing and church bell manufacture, the bell being the company logo to this date) but in 1948 moved its headquarters to Athens. Before WWII it engaged in sales of commercial vehicles as well as rebuilding of engines and truck assembly. After WWII it assembled U.S. Jeeps and truck types, and in 1956 it introduced 'its own' farm tractor family (Petropoulos models Π-35 and Π-55, built for years) which were actually based on U.S. International Harvester designs. Other fields included engines (it became one of the leading Greek Diesel engine manufacturers, at some point the second largest after Malkotsis), generators, forklift trucks (the well-known Dynalift family of models) and 4x4 trucks - all of own design and development. Its 'smart' 4x4 Unitrak/Polytrak/Militrak family was introduced in 1976 and found many uses around the country including the Greek military (Militrak, in limited numbers). Truck production ceased in 1984, while the company successfully diversified into other areas including imports and services. An effort was made in 1994 to resume truck production, based on a Swiss (Bucher) design as Militrak II Duro, however the proposed vehicle was not adopted by the Greek army.

Petropoulos Unitrak 4x4 (1976 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Unitrak.jpg

Petropoulos Π-55 tractor (original model introduced in 1956)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Petropoulos_tractor.jpg/800px-Petropoulos_tractor.jpg

A later version of Petropoulos Π-55 tractor
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/P-55.jpg

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Malkotsis

Malkotsis is the trade name for 'Technika S.Malkotsis A.E.', which has historically been the most important Greek engine manufacturer. Located in Piraeus, before WWII it produced various types of industrial machinery and Diesel Engines. In that respect, it was one of several engine (mostly Diesel and semi-Diesel) manufacturers that flourished in Greece in the 1920s and (mostly) 1930s, like Dimadis-Kanakis in Volos, Peteinaris in Kalamata, Siderides, BIO, Koutroufis and many others in Athens, etc. After WWII Malkotsis almost entirely concentrated on Diesel Engines (always, of its own development), soon becoming the largest company in its field. Malkotsis engines found use in a variety of industrial applications, while its boat-powering engine models became legendary for their reliability. Its EM-4 series was specifically designed for powering of vehicles and was employed in Malkotsis' own 45 hp farm tractor model (Malkotsis EM-4) introduced in 1962 and produced for years. A series of electric motors was produced as well. The company faced financial problems later, due to competition from cheaper imports, and was acquired in 1991 by Drakos-Polemis A.E., a pump manufacturing company which used all Malkotsis infrastructure for its production purposes.

Malkotsis EM-4 tractor (1962)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Malkotsis.jpg/800px-Malkotsis.jpg

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Scavas (Guys, this one is a real... :eek2: )

Scavas is the name of sports cars created by Greek engineer Vassileios Scavas. With precious experience gained from his work at Biamax, he started his first car design in 1969, undertaking the entire vehicle development. Scavas 1, a sports car with a 1200cc NSU engine was introduced in 1973. The car got a registration licence, but was not produced. His second model, the sharp-looking exotic Scavas 2 was introduced in 1992, and was intended for production. Once more, although the car got a registration licence, no permit for production was awarded by the state, for bureaucratic reasons. Scavas 3 of 1996 never got past the design stage.

Scavas 2 (1992)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Scavas_2.jpg


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AK Hellas

AK Hellas (the initials standing for the full name of the company, 'Aggelopoulos-Karkanis O.E.') was a Greek manufacturer of light trucks and other metal products. It designed and produced two basic types of vehicles - all three-wheelers with 50cc engines, taking advantage of a favorabe classification as "motorbikes" according to Greek law . One group of models were light trucks with "motorcycle" structure (steering and controls), a type of vehicle also produced in Greece by MEBEA (by far the most successful), Mego, Alta, Saracakis, Pitsos (a big home appliances manufacturer), Markal, Naxos and others. The other group of models were "proper" micro-trucks, with "automobile" structure of steering, controls etc. It was in this category that AK Hellas became the biggest producer in Greece, leaving behind MEBEA, Delta (a product of Attica), Minicar, Zamba and other smaller Greek manufacturers.

The company survives to date as Aggelopoulos Group still manufacturing metal products.

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Attica (automobiles)

Attica was the first brand name of vehicles produced by Bioplastic S.A., a company created in Moschato, Athens by Georgios Dimitriadis, an important figure in Greek automotive history. Attica started producing a light three-wheeler passenger car (model 200) in 1963.

The model became very popular in Greece and is fondly remembered to this date. Another Greek company, Alta, soon claimed some market share in the same category, introducing a similar vehicle in 1968.

Attica 200 was nonetheless produced until 1972. In 1968 Bioplastic utilized the Attica 200 design to create a light three-wheeler truck brand named Delta (oddly enough, the rear-half of the 200 had became the front-half of Delta!), sold with modest success.

In 1977 Dimitriadis created a new car company (DIM Motor) to produce the DIM, an entirely new passenger automobile.

Attica 200, at home in the old part of a Greek provincial town
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5b/Attica.jpg/800px-Attica.jpg

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DIM (automobiles)

DIM Motor Company, a Greek automobile maker, was created by Georgios Dimitriadis as a successor to his earlier company, Bioplastic S.A. that had produced the Attica automobile. An effort was made this time to entirely design and develop by own means a modern car.

The model was finally introduced in the Geneva Motor Show in 1977 and for this reason received more publicity than most Greek vehicles, appearing in many international publications. Plans were also made for more versions, including a sports coupe. However, due to the high costs involved and the car's poor prospects in the Greek market (and despite an effort to facelift the model), the car never reached true production. The whole project was abandoned in 1981, having been the last venture of Georgios Dimitriadis in the automotive industry.

DIM 652 (1977 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/DIM_652.jpg

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AutoDiana

AutoDiana was a Greek truck manufacturer based in Thessaloniki, in operation between 1975 and 1984. Its main product was the 'Unicar' model (not to be confused with a Spanish body-builder with the same name), a rather heavy-looking 4x4 multi-purpose truck. This robust vehicle had a payload of 1500 Kg.

Its fate, along with similar Greek multi-purpose trucks like the Petropoulos Unitrak, the Agricola, the Motoemil Autofarma, the Balkania Autotractor, the Namco Agricar and others, was sealed when a change of Greek law in 1984 modified tax treatment for such 'farm' vehicles. Production was terminated the same year after a fairly successful career among customers in the Greek countryside.

AutoDiana Unicar (1975)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a1/AutoDiana.jpg/800px-AutoDiana.jpg

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Balkania

Balkania was the trade name of 'K. Zaharopoulos A.B.E.E.' a Greek industrial and trading company based in Athens that produced 4x4 jeep-type vehicles and 4x4 trucks.

In 1975 it designed and introduced its own 'Autotractor' model, a 4x4 multi-purpose truck with metal cabin and a payload of 1500 Kg. In 1979 the model was redesigned, with a modern synthetic (glass-fiber reinforced composite) cabin. It was produced, as some similar Greek vehicles, until a change of a favorable tax treatment in 1984. The vehicle was modestly successful, as it exhibited certain quality problems.

Balkania Autotractor 4x4 truck (Balkania-own development)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/Balkania_Autotractor_truck.jpg/800px-Balkania_Autotractor_truck.jpg

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MAVA-Renault

MAVA Company is the Greek importer of Renault automobiles. In 1979 it decided to enter the car-production business introducing a passenger-utility car, a type then very popular in Greece for tax cetagorization reasons. MAVA assigned the creation of the car to Georgios Michael, a Greek designer credited with the design of Neorion Chicago, as well as that of several other Greek vehicles. Michael and his team completed the development and prototype construction (on Renault mechanicals) in record-time and the car, named Farma, was introduced the same year. MAVA had insisted that the car should be presented as a "Renault model" and thus the prototype was tested and approved by the French company. The Farma, accordingly bearing the Renault logo, was produced in a variety of versions, including "passenger" and "van" types. It had a 4-cylinder 845cc 34hp engine and could reach a top speed of about 110Km/h. A total of 3500 were built, including the "pure jeep-type" Σ model introduced in 1983, and some minor face-lifts. The attractive car had also received a modest publicity in the European press. By 1985 the Greek law had changed affecting the market for this type of vehicles, thus making their production unprofitable. Michael and his team then worked on a completely new model; the much more advanced (and particularly attractive) new Farma Change was introduced in 1985. By that time, though, MAVA had scrapped the whole project and only one car, the prototype of the new model, was built.

Designed by Georgios Michael and almost looking like a "true" Renault: MAVA-Renault Farma F (van)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d6/Farma.jpg/800px-Farma.jpg

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MEBEA

MEBEA was an important Greek vehicle manufaturer, producer of light trucks, passenger automobiles, motorcycles, motorbike engines and bicycles.

MEBEA was founded in Athens in 1960 by the merger of two companies assembling motorbikes since 1954, and its initials stand for Messogiakai Epiheiriseis Biomihanias, Emporiou kai Antiprosopeion (Mediterranean Enterprises for Industry, Commerce and Representations). It grew to be a significant Greek company with two factories in the north of Athens. Its most successful products were light three-wheeler thucks.

that became a common sight all over the country for almost three decades and were exported (in commercial and passenger variants) to Asian markets.

Apart from the previously mentioned vehicles that were of its own development (MEBEA technology was also employed by another Greek motorcycle and three-wheeler manufacturer, Mego), the company cooperated with Reliant of Britain, starting licence production of the latter's TW9 heavier three-wheeler truck in 1970 and Robin three-wheeler passenger car in 1974. In 1979 MEBEA introduced the Fox light utility vehicle (in line with contemporary Greek 'fashion'), also designed by Reliant. In addition to the motorized vehicle construction mentioned above, other activities during MEBEA history included motorbike engine production mostly for export, and the operation of the bicycle division producing a range of bicycle models.

The company faced problems in the early 1980s when certain Asian markets were lost, but the final blow came when Greek law stopped 'favoring' light passenger-utility vehicles, essentially killing the Fox model (along with about half a dozen similar Greek automobiles). In 1983 production of the Fox was stopped and soon MEBEA, a company associated with a wide variety of light vehicles that "served" thousands of Greeks, ceased to exist.

Small but tough: MEBEA ST150 (1970)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/MEBEA_ST150.jpg

Used by the Hellenic Postal Service: MEBEA Hermes (1970)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/79/MEBEA_Hermes.jpg/800px-MEBEA_Hermes.jpg

Built for Southeast Asia: MEBEA Bingo (1972)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/MEBEA_Bingo.jpg

A Greek workhorse: MEBEA 206 (1977)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/MEBEA_206.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Motoemil

Motoemil (not to be confused with companies from other countries with the same name) was a Greek truck manufacturer based in Thessaloniki. It is named after Emilios Antoniades who started his business, together with his brother Konstantinos, by constructing crude-made trucks assembled from motorcycle and automobile parts. By the early 1960s, like other similar Greek manufacturers, they were already developing and building complete "automobile" three-wheeler trucks. Motoemil was one of the first of its kind in Northern Greece and soon became the largest in that region, its products sold throughout the country.

Motoemil was one of the few Greek producers that survived the end of the "three-wheeler era" in that country, as it had developed a completely new breed of heavier, four-wheel trucks in the mid-1970s. The Autofarma model was an all-terrain truck with 2 tonne payload perfectly placed in the "farm truck" category according to Greek law. In that respect, it was similar to other Greek vehicles (all locally developed), like the Agricola, the AutoDiana Unicar, the Balkania Autotractor, the EBIAM, the Petropoulos Polytrak and others. However, the Autofarma was produced in numbers exceeding those of all others combined, sold through a network of dealers throughout the country. It was simultaneously a very rugged, reliable all-terrain vehicle requiring minimal maintenance costs (suited for the extremely harsh treatment farm vehicles were exposed to), with a significant payload, a relatively comfortable cabin and a reasonably smooth road behavior for longer drives. A minor facelift was done on the model in 1979, but by the mid-1980s this category of vehicles was not competitive anymore due to changes in Greek Law combined with more "sophisticated" demands of Greek customers, met by competitively priced imported types. This was a change the Northern Greek company was not able to cope with, ceasing all truck production in 1985.

Motoemil three-wheeler truck (1967 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Motoemil_3w.jpg

Motoemil Autofarma (1977 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Motoemil_autofarma.jpg/656px-Motoemil_autofarma.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ros (vehicles)

Ros (its badge was only in Greek, the brand spelled 'ΡΩΣ') was the trade name of vehicles produced by the Greek company 'Stavros Konstantinides O.E.', based in Athens. The Ros three-wheeler trucks were the most successful of its kind in Greece, having been produced by the thousands. Ros surpassed in sales even "Greek classics" like Alta and the characteristic shape of its trucks could be seen for several years in every corner of the country. And for good reason: The 'Rosaki' (meaning 'little Ros', as was fondly referred as by its owners) was one of the most robust and reliable vehicles ever used in Greece. In 2006, 30 years after the end of three-wheeler production, several Ros were still in use in excellent condition, more than any other three wheeler type.

The company roots go back to imports of used German motorcycles after WWII by S. Konstantinides and transformation of motorcycles into crude trucks. The 'Alfa-Ros' brand was introduced in 1966 when S. Konstantinides cooperated with A. Apostolopoulos, designing and producing 'proper' (unrelated to motorcycles) three-wheeler trucks. In 1968 A. Apostolopoulos made his own company (producing the 'Apollon' truck, similar in appearance and almost as reliable) and thus S. Konstantinides continued with a new brand, 'Ros'. The Ros trucks featured metal cabins and 1000cc and 1500cc engines. They were all front engined in contrast to most other rear-engined Greek three wheelers. A realtive of the company founder, Ilias Konstantinides also made his own 'Ilion' brand producing Ros designs. Ros terminated production in 1976 when the type could no longer suit the needs of Greek professionals and competition from imported trucks became stiffer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAM (vehicles)

The name SAM (not to be confused with S.A.M., a Swedish automotive company) stands for Stephanos A. Mbaltas (badge 'ΣΑΜ', in Greek, appearing in the logo), the founder of this Greek company, one of several that produced three-wheeler trucks in that country, in business between 1966 and 1974.

The chassis developed by SAM was very robust and some of its trucks were surviving 30 years after the company went out of business.

SAM truck (1966 model)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/SAM_truck.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Styl Kar

STYL KAR (its logo written in Greek as ΣΤΥΛ ΚΑΡ) was named after its founder, the very talented engineer Stylianos Karakatsanis. Its entire history is representative of a large number of Greek companies who were engaged in the construction of simple utility vehicles.

The first transformations of motorcycles into "trucks" in the country probably took place in the early 1940s by workshops in Athens, when Greece was still under occupation by the axis powers. Immediately after the war a large number of British (Norton, BSA), Italian (Moto Guzzi), and mostly German (Zundapp, BMW) motorcycles were left, along with destroyed U.S. Willy's and other military vehicles. Involving a lot of engineering ingenuity, parts from different vehicles were joined together into contraptions being half-motorcycles half-trucks with remarkably efficient results. Soon, there was "production", with parts being more or less standardized. Progressively motorcycle parts were replaced by automobile parts, power most frequently being provided by Volkswagen air-cooled engines. By the late 1950s this process started evolving into complete developement of three-wheeler trucks that had nothing to do with motorcycles anymore (according to Greek law, though, three wheelers did not fall into the same tax and other categories as four-wheeler automobiles). STYL KAR is considered a pioneering company in the development of the Greek three-wheeler truck technology, adopted by other companies. It is also one of the few that evolved into a real industrial corporation.

Stylianos Karakatsanis started business in Thessaloniki after WWII repairing and selling ex-military motorcycles, and, soon transforming them into light trucks. By 1959 STYL KAR's first "real" three-wheeler trucks were produced. In 1965 it moved to Athens, and new, advanced designs were introduced. During the military dictatorship in Greece (1967-1974) laws for type certification were made more flexible, while three-wheelers enjoyed a favorable tax treatment. That resulted in the development of the industry, with companies like STYL KAR, Alta, Ros, Apollon, Babis, SAM, MotorCar, Atlas, Motoemil, Pan-Car and others multiplying production, this kind of vehicle becoming a common sight all over the country. STYL KAR built a new, larger factory in 1967 and soon its most successful model, the '1300' was introduced. The company produced thousands of three-wheeler trucks, while in 1975 it developed a two-tonne four wheel truck to replace the three-wheelers that were by that time becoming less appealing to the Greeks (this new model finally not produced). In 1979 it developed a light sports car and worked on building a whole new factory in Thiva to produce it. However, a huge debt discovered by tax auditors gave the final blow to a company that had progressively lost its basic market. All plans were abandoned and STYL KAR, the company that pioneered perhaps the most characteristic Greek vehicle, went out of business altogether.

Styl Kar 1300 (1968 model) in a company showroom
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Styl_Kar_showroom.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------

gm2263
June 4th, 2006, 10:21 AM
What about Kioleidis? Is he considered a truck manufacturer or does he simply manufacture the bodies of the vehicles without the engine (τις καρότσες δηλαδή )? He is one of the biggest.

I also know of a Nissan factory in Volos. Not a Greek design but they were making cars for quite some time too...

Also, I felt emotionally touched with the three wheeled vehicles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/MEBEA_ST150.jpg

Back in the 1970's, one of these was being used by the milkman in my neighbourhood...

Now we have an abundance of supermarkets, but the image of the three wheel vehicle stopping in front of the house and the milkman with the big moustache stoping to deliver the milk and yogourts, was something else...

Now I am not sure thet three-wheeled vehicles exist anymore in the streets of Athens. The new generations of profesionals like the SUV style vehicles, given the new financing schemes (i.e. loans or leasing) offered by the banks...

neorion
June 4th, 2006, 01:16 PM
Neorion's monster machine :laugh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Neorion_Chicago.jpg


Neorion is the ancient name for shipyards. The site where boats were built.


Neorion Syros Shipyards are makers of luxury cruise vessels (http://www.epicos.com/epicos/extended/neorion/neorion_vessels.html) today. More their forte, I'd say.

GrigorisSokratis
June 4th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Yes Grigori, it was actually in Volos and it was Theocharakis Nissan plant where all the Sunny models you see riding now in Greece have been manufactured, after that sometime in the 90`s it ceased production and aimed all his efforts in just importing. Though it was Nissan a Japan designed car manufactured in Greece.

Now as for pure 100% greek vehicles currently there're ELBO and until a few months ago Sfakianakis. The former planning the design of a sport and even a civil private usage car I.X.

I think though Greece taxation system should loosen and ease thus the reflourishing of NAMCO or look someday riding in Greece as well as in other nations the state of the art SCAVAS. Or even see new companies born; it's all a good econopic policy issue that could bring Greece takes its good share in both the local and the international markets as Spain did in the 80's and 90's with SEAT and now you can see its models all around the world.

Giorgio
June 5th, 2006, 10:13 AM
Brilliant thread.

ckm
June 5th, 2006, 12:38 PM
I didn't know any of these cars. Good threat¡¡

I've been told that diesel passenger-cars are forbidden in Greece. Is that true?.

Prometheus
June 5th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Wow so amazing to see all the various ventures and exactly how long Greece has been involved in the automobile industry.

Too bad. Small countries like Sweden and the Czech Republic have great auto industry's while all the various forays Greeks made didn't succed. And it's harder now with all the cheap labour everywhere in Asia and such to compete.

Grigori, can you outline for us what plans you alluded to in the future? Anymore pics would be fabulous too.

GREAT THREAD!!!

Demis
June 6th, 2006, 08:19 PM
Dear GrigorisSokratis thank you for your great and very informative page, but you did not mentioned the Alfa Romeo 33 1.3 that was manufactured in Greece in the 80s and of which the 1.3 model was only made in Greece. Also you did not mention the GM Opel Ascona, Opel Kadett which was made by GM Hellas. It will be nice to see some photos of these vehicles.

GrigorisSokratis
June 7th, 2006, 12:31 AM
Thank you Demis for your info. But were these models manufactured in a 100% in Greece or they were just assembled? Because this thread is made for exclusively Greek designed vehicles as well as manufactured in a 100% in Greece.

If they're so I'll gladly make all the required research in order to have them added here.

whereisflat
June 7th, 2006, 01:20 AM
what cars are produced in Greece nowadays?

GrigorisSokratis
June 7th, 2006, 05:14 AM
ELBO is the current main Greek vehicles manufacturing company. It manufactures buses, trucks, jeeps, military vehicles and there some plans on developing a new civil car of complete Greek design as well as a sport model.

Since it's a half private (Mytilinaios group) owned company and half state owned I think there won't be found any taxation hampers this time as happened with other Automobile companies throughout the 88 years of automobile manufacturing history that kept Greek companies from being a leader in international automobile markets like say, Italy a country with similar number of companies throughout history.

Here you can see two pictures of the Thessaloniki manufacturing plant.

http://www.elbo.gr/images/egkatastaseis.jpg

http://www.elbo.gr/images/place1.jpg

Demis
June 7th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Dear GrigorisSokratis both makes were manufactured in Greece, hence the Alfa Romeo's 1.3 model.

Prometheus
June 12th, 2006, 01:54 AM
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4144/7875690695433b9228o6ou.jpg

Prometheus
June 12th, 2006, 01:56 AM
Dear GrigorisSokratis both makes were manufactured in Greece, hence the Alfa Romeo's 1.3 model.

He means this thread is about Greek auto companies and their 100% designed and developed and manufactered in Greece stuff.

Demis
June 13th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Few years ago I read about a car called Kallista that was to be manufactured at a factory that was going to be build at Kilkis. Does anyone know any more regarding this project?

zeek
October 26th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Hello all, interesting article about the Greek motor industry. I have visited the islands and the mainland many times over the last 20 years and have not seen most of the vehicles featured. On the island of Poros many of the three wheelers are still in use, mainly green Mazda 1500 (not featured in the article, where they manufactured in Greece?), also there are 2 3 wheelers painted orange and blue (1 restored and on the island and 1 derelict in a ditch just outside Galatis on the mainland), don't know what make are but will take photographs on my next visit (could be a Motoemil or Sam, but more likely to be a Styl Kar as the restored version is heavily chromed!).
I am interested in the Reliant connection with Mebea, interested to know if any of the the Reliant 3 wheelers are still in use particularly the pickup versions on the Regal and the Greek versions of the TW9 Ant (the Mebea ST150 or Mebea 1200?)
Information and pictures greatly appreciated.

GrigorisSokratis
October 26th, 2006, 06:30 PM
You surely traveled in the Greek national brand ELBO as a large percentage of Athens and Thessaloniki bus units (and Trolleys in Athens too) are of that company.

Also you rather have seen at least one (and many more believe me) Nissan Sunny built in Volos, Thessaly (some 300 kms north of Athens and 6th largest city of Greece).

prisma
December 7th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Intresting report on the subject!! Of course for the lack of aytomobile industry the Greek State is responsible.....Most of the times aytomobiles were something like an "enemy" for our politicians. Of course we CAN'T have auto industry in Greece when bureaucracy won't help ANY effort.
Of course another reason (resulted by the efforts of our politicians again) was the size of the Greek car market. It was an indifferent market of a small country all the way till the mid-'70s where something was about to happen. After 1976 a great raise in sales took place and the Greek car market seemed to have good perspectives for further growth.
When, in 1978, sales (for the first time) exceeded the 100.000 cars, the then government started to worry..... With the excuse of the enviromental polution had "to take measures" against the growth in car sales (wich anyway most of them had been sold in Athens) i.e. to reduse in the near future the volume of automobiles (mainly) in the Capital of Greece (even today Athens stands for almost over of the 50% of car sales in the country).
One good idea was,of course, the doubling in taxes!! (διπλασιασμος φορων).
That happened in mid-1979. The whole idea was quite simple...."50% up taxes- 50% down sales"!!!!!! Quite a bright policy!!!
At that time one of the most important projects made it's first steps. Not other than the Nissan Factory in Volos.
But in the first year of full operation of the new policy against automobiles(1980) the market went down from almost 88.000, in 1979, to 35.000 cars!!!
Of course Nissan Factory did not went to business with that in mind!!!! So immediatly had to reduce production. The government itself downgrated one of the most important investments for the country!!!!!
Next government (in 1981) continued the previous policy against automobiles and the Greek market during the 80's was suffering! Same with the Greek car industry (the diffrence is that the industry wasn't suffering at all.....THEY Killed it once and for all!!!!!). Nissan in Japan also had in mind our country as a strategic point in Europe for a big investment (by the Parent Company). When they approach the then new-goverment for the whole project to take place the goverment requested 51% of the control of the project!!!!!!! Maybe they had not realised what it was about!
Of course Nissan-Teokar in Volos made it up till the mid-90’s when finally had to run out of business thanx to all the previous policies…and NOBODY even tried or even cared about keep that important plant in life!
As for the rest of the important efforts by some visionary people in Greece for a decent car industry (as Farma by Mava or the legendery Pony by Namco) the state always had the way NOT to help them!!! (some of the reasons have been mentioned in previous posts). The worst of all is that nowadays no major car manufacturer ever approach Greece for an important investment and never will. The game is lost!!!!!!

MetroGuardian
December 7th, 2006, 03:27 PM
Quite an interesting approach prisma. Still, I would like to ask:
Doesn't this tax apply only to imported cars, or generally to cars?

It would be great to have an automobile industry in Greece, it produces so much jobs, wealth, innovation and something useful in the end (a car).

I say, it is never too late.

GrigorisSokratis
December 7th, 2006, 04:57 PM
Of course look at China. Never had a serious automobiles industry and now....well it's entering in the game field.

Also other countries that never produced cars (even in the Eu and Eurozone) are becoming car builders. We are great candidates indeed. Why not?

We got the nessesary human assets and capacity, it's just a TAX cut issue.

prisma
December 8th, 2006, 03:25 AM
@MetroGuardian....
Nowadays the tax system is completly different (not 100% desent but a lot far better than in the '80s)
Till the mid-80's there was a quite fair tax system for some types of vehicles wich they produced in Greece (such as the Pony by Namco).After 1985 that changed so the production of such vehicles became unprofitable. I don't know why that happend..... i guess it was just a misfortuned decision (as many more!).

Prometheus
January 17th, 2007, 10:11 AM
ELBO Aletis
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l189/KORNET-E/ELBO_Aletis.jpg

Kuvvaci
January 17th, 2007, 11:08 AM
^^ can it find market?

kostya
January 17th, 2007, 01:15 PM
LOL, I remember some years ago when I was still in school they took us to the ELBO. Except the usual buses and military jeeps(mercedes?) they had a photo of a concept car, a bit diffent though.

MikeTheGreek
January 17th, 2007, 02:42 PM
^^ can it find market?

No man.It's only a concept car.

Prometheus
January 18th, 2007, 03:25 AM
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6130/aletis06largexa4.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2581/aletis07largeyd1.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/544/aletis08largebj1.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2017/aletis09largedl6.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9017/aletis10largecp7.jpg

kostya
January 18th, 2007, 05:12 AM
Would you buy it? (to everyone).Would that be to support the national brand or any other reason?

Giorgio
January 18th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Well it is not very attractive...I had seen it a while ago.

MetroGuardian
January 18th, 2007, 02:15 PM
I don't think the concept is bad.

On the other hand, I think it is rather improbable to start an automobile industry in Greece for obvious reasons.
1. First of all, it is the size of the local market, and the economies of the surrounding countries, except Turkey (but then why not built it
there, as it already has been done).
2. Secondly the Greek salaries and other costs are really high.
3. Thirdly we don't really have a good and fast transportation network (like railways) interconnecting with other countries.

So, I see there are only two solutions.

- Design the car here and outsource the production to the Balkans, Russia or India.
- Try to catch some niche markets, by creating very specific vehicles.
- Create a high value specific part of the car and specialize, while also promoting your products, services and ideas to other industries.

kinggeorge
January 18th, 2007, 10:43 PM
i would buy it and have it for when i go to greece, some of these other malakas wont pay a higher fee for a greek car, myself i would support the country and its people instead of buying cheap cars from china or other nations

GrigorisSokratis
January 19th, 2007, 02:32 AM
Well now I'll throw my humble opinion.

First and most important those pics are a :eek2: , I loved them!!!

I liked the car and I would buy it, take it for granted (so if anyone of ELBO is reading this, go ahead here you got another potential customer). The only thing though is that I'd consider a little mod to the doors if I was the designer, as for the car in general terms let me tell you, It's a... Great design!!!

Now, considering the markets look at Sweden a country of 8millions surrounded by one of 5-6millions to the East (Finland) and a 5 millions one to the West (Norway) and with the exception of Germany (the third world car manufacturer nation) the rest are all countries of low population; and still then they build their cars in Sweden; with two brands like Volvo and Scania selling worldwide.

So I prefer opening new jobs to Greeks instead of making use of the outsourcing approach, we already have a big plant in Thessaloniki, the resources, the manpower, so no need of resorting to other countries at all.

As for the markets I see a great local potential as well as targeting the Balkans market and why not some other EU countries, hey! the design is great, what? we cannot enter the car markets of our other European brothers because it's Greek? Let me tell you people, this design is great, competitive and futuristic (well, as I said before I'd fix the doors but nothing else) so there's is enough space to make it available in different European markets other than the local and the rest of the Balkans.

MetroGuardian
January 19th, 2007, 02:41 PM
GrigorisSokratis, those countries started automobile production long ago.
I think it would be unwise to do the same nowadays in Greece.

For example, Thessaloniki could host:
-Engineering Department
-R & D
-Marketing
-Headquarters
-Distribution
-Design
-Test Facilities

And Bulgaria can take the factory. Those are jobs that I would prefer to come to Greece, high-paying, slow to outsource (thus more permanent), requiring intellectual skills and not manual labor.

savas
January 19th, 2007, 03:28 PM
I think the aletis concept has noting to be jealous of other concepts like the smart or others... only the concept was presented in 2001 and 5 years later..! i really hope that ELBO will not abandon the idea of a greek commercial automobile... If europeans buy cars like daewoo why not a car made in greece and a good looking too...?

Almopos
January 19th, 2007, 04:14 PM
- Try to catch some niche markets, by creating very specific vehicles.


I think that is the way to go for Greece. Try to build a nice sportscar, I mean Top Gear ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/ ) material.

Here are some examples:

1. Koenigsegg

http://static.blogo.it/autoblog/koenigsegg_ccx_400.jpg

2. Spyker

http://www.alpra.com/Posterji/alpra/Spyker.jpg

3. Wiesmann

http://www.autoshow.ro/images/wallpaper/Wiesmann%20GT_800.jpg

A Greek "muscle" car would enhance the image of Greece and make sure that Greece is noticed by the larger car manafacturers in the world.

prisma
January 20th, 2007, 02:03 PM
First of all, nowadays, our car market is more than enough to have a car industry. Maybe we could manufacture such vehicles, although this project (the Aletis) is not something new....... I'm not saying that we could have a production of million cars per year, but maybe have some thousends of well build, low cost SUV's or commersial vehicles (like the Renault Kangoo) to be exported and covering some domesting needs as well. We've done that in the past with the Namco Pony and not to forget some Nissan Sunny's exported to Ireland many years ago from Teokar factory in Volos! All it takes is funds and good will.I think we have the potentials but.....:no:

Demis
January 20th, 2007, 06:34 PM
Regarding the ELBO Aletis, I would gladly buy it if it was available, or indeed any Greek made car. As for the excuses for not producing cars in Greece i.e. small market, high wages, is just a lot of rubbish, otherwise how to you explain countries like Belgium, Austria, Ireland who have less population than Greece and higher income or Portugal with about the same population and income. The problem is the very narrow minded politicians who have been ruling Greece since 1985 to present.

GrigorisSokratis
January 20th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Portugal's incomes are lower than Greek ones actually (much lower actually, even lower than those of Slovenia btw). Also according to Eurostat 2006 measures the incomes inequality levels of Ireland and Greece are both the same measured in Gini coefficient (the ratio between a Lorenz curve and the perfect distribution y=x function) giving 40 as a result, being both immediatly after Belgium and above countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal.

The problem with the manufacture of cars from privates in Greece would be the levels of Ease of doing business and the Economic freedom which according to Eurostat are both in low levels yet, let's see what happens in the next months/years as Alogoskoufis policies have a tendency on improving this issue.

MetroGuardian
January 20th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Demis
Ireland is not a car manufacturer


Austria employees 38.100 people and has a turnover of 10 bill €
Belgium employees 99.000 people and has a turnover of 18 bill €
Portugal employees 9.000 people and has a turnover of 3bill €
Netherlands employees 26.400 people and has a turnover of 8 bill €
Sweden employees 140.000 people and has a turnover of 27 bill €



So it is obvious that countries with higher / similar salaries than ours, have automobile industries (which they don't own) and those have a huge impact on their economy.


But the question is: If we don't have the advantage of cheap labor.
"What advantage do we have?"

We are not the only country in the world! Why should a company start operations here and not in a Balkan / Eastern European country?
Where, they might give free land, cheap labor (and no strikes/unions), easy access to big European markets?

------------------------------------------------------------
And let me give you some more statistics about the car industry that might hurt:

:speech:
Turkey 167.500 employees (6.5 bill E Turnover)
That is 38.800€ per employee

Let's check France now:
320.000 employees and (128 bill € Turnover)
That is a huge 400.000€ per employee

Do you think Turkish engineers design the French cars the country is producing?


Let's go to the largest manufacturing country of the Planet:
China has an enormous 1.150.000 employees in automobile industry.
Yet the Turnover of this workforce is 6.5 bill €
That is 5.600€ per employee.

Now, let's watch Germany and Japan that are heavily outsourcing in China.
Germany: 760.000 employees (204.000 bill € turnover) - [268.000 € per emp.]
Japan: 858.000 employees (365.000 bill € turnover) - [425.000 € per emp.]
------------------------------------------------------------


Let me finally state, that this is direct employment, an army of suppliers (15-20 times larger in size, in total) accompanies the whole process.

And, thus I continue supporting my case, that we should better not have automobile factories in Greece, and nobody is going to build one. :down:



BUT, we could have automobile companies, with all the huge departments (in salaries, turnover, employees and impact) that I have previously mentioned. :okay:


http://www.oica.net/htdocs/statistics/OICA%204%20VOLETS%20F.pdf

MikeTheGreek
January 21st, 2007, 01:16 AM
We should also consider that the biggest engineers and designers in automobile companies and in F1 teams anre Greek.We could find new talents easily and offer them jobs in Greece.

Prometheus
January 21st, 2007, 04:35 AM
First of all, nowadays, our car market is more than enough to have a car industry.

Indeed. I was gonna comment on this that as was stated before if the new car market in Greece 20 years ago was 70,000+ per year, it is now many times this. I don't see why small scale production of maybe a little SUV and a little 'urban sedan' would fail as Prisma said.

The problem is as it is now, the Greek corportate/industrial economic system is not very helpful to ventures like this.

Wojtek1957
July 13th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Hello Grigoris
Your post have interested me. I've already came back from Greece and I need your help.Please tell me - is the bus in the picture named Sfakianafis? Is it the first model from '64. what was its type & till when it was produced? :) http://www.speedyshare.com/231969494.html

Wojtek1957
July 13th, 2007, 11:24 PM
sorry. my link has disappeared :) i'll try again http://www3.speedyshare.com/data/681170965/4943113/80794342/Sfakianakis.JPG

GrigorisSokratis
July 14th, 2007, 05:34 AM
Unfortunately the pic doesn't show. Can you try uploading it somewhere else, try with imageshack.us it's a good place for uploading your photos.

Wojtek1957
July 14th, 2007, 10:02 AM
o gosh :) again . another mistake - the bus is not from '64 but '61. I'm looking for history (with plenty of photos) of Greek buses and trolleybuses somewhere in the net http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6603/sfakianakisdz5.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfakianakisdz5.jpg)

Sodnal
July 14th, 2007, 06:33 PM
While it would be cool to have a Greek manufactured automobile, it's not too practical. The auto manufacturing market is saturated right now. Even in Europe, the auto manufacturers are moving their manufacturing east into Russia and Ukraine. Greece can not hope to compete on a cost basis with those nations.

Nations need to compete in industry where they have special expertise and an advantage of some sort. For Greece it's tourism, merchant shipping/commerce and banking. Those are the industries they should promote.

SKLAVENITIS
July 14th, 2007, 08:41 PM
*
Sodnal wrote:
Nations need to compete in industry where they have special expertise and an advantage of some sort. For Greece it's tourism, merchant shipping/commerce and banking.

**
I am not sure if I agree 100% with the above statement. You have to start somewhere. When I look around my house I don't see a single item that is made in Greece. (OK I have some Greek art and music cds but not a single everyday manufactured item)

Would it not make sense for Greece to be a player in say the pleasure craft business. Small boat construction (including marine engines) and all their associated spin-off industries could provide year round employment for several thousands, and also generate some quality jobs in terms of design, engineering, and R & D. In addition Greece is overrun with motorbikes - is there no interest to create a local product? -or at least design something and have it built in China (Greece gets plenty of sun - what is their expertise in solar panel design and manufacturing?)

Services is a good thing, but don't the people who inhabit the country of Greece aspire to CREATE ANYTHING of a technical nature? What to those countless numbers of people who graduate from Greece's technical/engineering schools do when they finish their degree?

PS: Just because Greece is small it does not mean that it cannot hope to create goods of a technical nature. Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Israel are also small. For some strange reason the entrepreneurship Greeks show at sea vanishes when they reach land.

*

Sodnal
July 14th, 2007, 11:57 PM
I don't believe in planned markets. Let the marketplace determine what should be built. As for manufacturing, I agree it's disappointing that more items are not MADE in Greece, but you have to let the cost structure determine that.

Per the nations you mentioned, Israel is only strong in DEFENSE manufacturing. Kind of a limited field. Sweden, Finland and Norway are battling the low cost nations and losing market share daily. As it is, they make high end products and not the higher volume, low cost products. But there is a limited market for that and it's already saturated.

Greece has a unique advantage in merchant shipping, with it's sea location, strong port infrastructure and gateway to the developing Balkans. That's a key advantage in merchant shipping industry.

It's pointless for Greek companies to try to invest in businesses where they're at a cost disadvantage from the start. Why get into manufacturing motor-bikes when the Chinese and Koreans do it cheaper, even with freight cost factored in? Better to own the ships and ports where those motor bikes are imported to sell in Europe! That's an advantage nobody can take away from the Greeks, unless they sell their port access to the Chinese like Karamanlis is trying to do-that's insanity.

SKLAVENITIS
July 16th, 2007, 10:36 PM
*

Sodnal here is a timely article in this Sunday's BHMA:

Το ναυάγιο της εγχώριας παραγωγής σκαφών - Αφού συμφώνησε στην καταστροφή 10.000 αλιευτικών ξύλινων καϊκιών η πολιτεία φρενάρει νέες επενδύσεις για ναυπηγικές μονάδες

On the one hand fishermen are being bribed to abandon their wooden vessels which will kill the craft of wood boat construction, and on the other builders who use new technologies and methods are being impeded by the paralytic Greek state.

http://tovima.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=B&f=15112&m=D04&aa=1



FYI: http://www.ocean-yachts.com/default.htm :) Made & Designed in Greece!

http://www.ocean-yachts.com/yachts_photo/sailboat_512exclu/main_sailing_yacht.jpg




*

Sodnal
July 17th, 2007, 04:06 AM
I'd love to read that article, Sklavenitis, but my Greek is not good enough. Do you have an English translation?

My Father was Greek, but my mother was not so the language was not spoken around the home much. And it's been many years since I went through Greek school. :nuts:

Hey, I'm all for Greeks finding niche markets where they can apply special economies and cost advantages to manufacture goods. We need more of that, where it makes sense. You have to be nimble these days.

I travel to Japan on business 6-8 times a year, every year. The Japanese are facing the same problems with high costs that all modern nations are facing. Much of their raw manufacturing is moving to China, through Japanese transplant companies. They are doing more and more "service work" in Japan and less manufacturing (service work includes R & D). It's a natural trend of all modern nations, Greece should not fight it but should adapt to it.

Wojtek1957
July 17th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Day by day I slowly get to know better the history of buses made in Greece. What a pitty that there are hardly no sides in the internet about it. I'm under the great impression of their ( buses & trolleybuses) beauty. The oldest one in use are Büssing - Hellas. I guess that the date of their production is located somewhere about 1975-1993. Later in this factory appeared the Sfakinakis , which was simply a copy of MANs & Neoplan buses. Am i right? Could please add sth to my knowledge about it and give me more precise names of buses from the factory.

pilotos
July 18th, 2007, 09:05 PM
I'd love to read that article, Sklavenitis, but my Greek is not good enough. Do you have an English translation?

My Father was Greek, but my mother was not so the language was not spoken around the home much. And it's been many years since I went through Greek school. :nuts:

Hey, I'm all for Greeks finding niche markets where they can apply special economies and cost advantages to manufacture goods. We need more of that, where it makes sense. You have to be nimble these days.

I travel to Japan on business 6-8 times a year, every year. The Japanese are facing the same problems with high costs that all modern nations are facing. Much of their raw manufacturing is moving to China, through Japanese transplant companies. They are doing more and more "service work" in Japan and less manufacturing (service work includes R & D). It's a natural trend of all modern nations, Greece should not fight it but should adapt to it.

Greece is doing the same, a lot of our factories were moved, and still are, in neighboring Countries with much lower salaries, FYROM i.e. is full of those, plus some companies are actually opening new factories in china.
But while this could have a positive impact in the economy, it also have a large negative impact, unemployment that is.

GrigorisSokratis
July 19th, 2007, 03:10 AM
Greece is doing the same, a lot of our factories were moved, and still are, in neighboring Countries with much lower salaries, FYROM i.e. is full of those, plus some companies are actually opening new factories in china.
But while this could have a positive impact in the economy, it also have a large negative impact, unemployment that is.

The same happens all around Europe and North America. Remember Detroit?? :ohno:

Sodnal
July 19th, 2007, 05:37 AM
I live in Detroit and work for one of the Big Three. Most of our raw manufacturing is moving to China and India. You can't fight trends, labor costs or the flow of Capital and you're crazy if you try to.

The key to adapting to the rapidly changing world economy is to be nimble and continually upgrade your work skills and knowledge. While manual labor jobs are moving overseas, service jobs (includes design and development) are growing to backfill those markets.

For example, my current assignment is to engineer Hybrid Vehicles. I have a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering with 30 years experience in Quality/Manufacturing Engineering. You can market that kind of experience most anywhere in the world.

Greece should not try to impede the movement of low skill jobs to FYROM, Bulgaria and Serbia. They should encourage Greek businesses to attack costs by doing so. At the same time, Greek universities need to get off their butts and start educating students with the skills Greece will need in the 21st Century. They might start by getting away from their leftist political agenda and start focussing on education again.

Almopos
July 19th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Sorry, just in Greek no time to translate!

Φόρμουλα made in Greece σε διεθνή διαγωνισμό

Τα αποκαλυπτήρια του αυτοκινήτου τύπου Φόρμουλα που κατασκεύασαν φοιτητές του Αριστοτελείου Πανεπιστημίου πραγματοποιήθηκαν χθες το απόγευμα στο λιμάνι της Θεσσαλονίκης.

http://media.feed.gr/filesystem/images/20070718/low/assets_LARGE_t_942_173153.JPG


Πρόκειται για προσπάθεια εννέα φοιτητών του Τμήματος Μηχανολόγων Μηχανικών του ΑΠΘ, που ξεκίνησε από τον Σεπτέμβριο του 2006 με στόχο τον σχεδιασμό, τη μελέτη και την κατασκευή μιας φόρμουλας.

Το αυτοκίνητο θα λάβει μέρος και στον διεθνή αγώνα Φόρμουλας που διοργανώνει η SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) τον ερχόμενο Σεπτέμβριο στο Φλοράνο Μοντέσε στην Ιταλία.

http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?catid=9483&subid=2&pubid=319326

greecelightning
July 20th, 2007, 10:34 AM
That's great news! Hope it does well and sparks more engineering to come!

Almopos
March 25th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Greeks design better

No motor industry to speak of but Greeks are influencing car design.

H χώρα μας, πέρα από κάποιες επιδερμικές επαφές που είχε κατά το παρελθόν με τη βαριά αυτοκινητοβιομηχανία, δεν έχει να επιδείξει κάτι σημαντικό σε εθνικό επίπεδο. Ωστόσο, το όραμα κάποιων Eλλήνων σχεδιαστών ήταν τόσο ισχυρό που δημιούργησε νέες τάσεις-σύμβολα στον χώρο του αυτοκινήτου. Χαρακτηριστικότερο παράδειγμα, το δημιούργημα του Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis (ελληνιστί Aλέξανδρος Iσηγόνης), που δεν είναι άλλο από το γνωστό μας Mini. Tον δρόμο που χάραξε ο Alec ακολούθησαν και άλλοι πατριώτες μας, όπως ο Aνδρέας Zαπατίνας, ο Σωτήρης Kωβός και η Bίκυ Bλαχάκη.

Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis

http://media2.feed.gr/filesystem/images/20080318/low/assets_LARGE_t_1461_1292768.JPG



Δεν τα κατάφερε ποτέ στο πανεπιστήμιο και αποκαλούσε τα μαθηματικά «εχθρό κάθε δημιουργικού ανθρώπινου όντος». O ελληνικής καταγωγής Sir Alec διηύθυνε μία εταιρία με κινητήρες σκαφών στη Σμύρνη, γνωστή σήμερα με το όνομα «Izmir». Ομως, κατά την πολυτάραχη ιστορική περίοδο που η Tουρκία αποκτούσε τη σύγχρονη μορφή της, η οικογένειά του αναγκάστηκε να καταφύγει στη Mάλτα το 1922 και στη συνέχεια να ταξιδέψει με τη μητέρα του στην Aγγλία. Eκεί κατάφερε να αγοράσει το πρώτο του αυτοκίνητο, ένα Singer με αμάξωμα Weymann το οποίο παρουσίασε μία ατέλειωτη σειρά μηχανικών βλαβών. H συγκεκριμένη εμπειρία ήταν που τον ώθησε να ξεκινήσει σπουδές μηχανολόγου στην Πολυτεχνική Σχολή του Battersea στο Λονδίνο. Ηταν ωστόσο η απέχθεια του για τα μαθηματικά το στοιχείο που τον ανάγκασε να την εγκαταλείψει και να περιπλανηθεί για αρκετά χρόνια σε διάφορες εταιρείες αυτοκινήτου με την ιδιότητα του τεχνικού σχεδιαστή. H μεγάλη μέρα ήρθε στις 26 Aυγούστου 1959 με το Mini Classic, το οποίο δημιούργησε με την ομάδα του στην British Motor Corporation. Πολύ σύντομα, η μεγάλη επιτυχία του Mini Classic τον έκανε διάσημο σε όλο τον κόσμο. Aλλά ο Issigonis τόνιζε συνεχώς «Δεν εφηύρα εγώ το Mini, το σχεδίασα». Tο 1967 έγινε μέλος της Royal Society, της πιο διάσημης εταιρίας έρευνας στη Bρετανία, και δύο χρόνια αργότερα η Bασίλισσα Ελισάβετ τον έχρισε Sir, ως πατέρα του Mini Classic. Aκόμα και μετά τη σύνταξή του, το 1971 συνέχισε να εργάζεται για την εταιρεία ως σύμβουλος μέχρι το 1987. Πέθανε ένα χρόνο αργότερα, στις 2 Oκτωβρίου, λίγο προτού κλείσει τα 82 του χρόνια.

Aνδρέας Zαπατίνας

O Ελληνας σχεδιαστής διακρίθηκε στη γειτονική Iταλία, μια χώρα που παίρνει πολύ σοβαρά την έννοια του design. Γεννημένος το 1957 στην Aθήνα και με πτυχίο σχεδιαστή από το Pasadena University των H.Π.A., ο Zαπατίνας ξεκίνησε την καριέρα του στα τέλη του ‘80 από το Fiat Group. Eκεί ασχολήθηκε εξαρχής με τη σχεδίαση των νέων μοντέλων και συμμετείχε στη δημιουργία των Fiat Barchetta, Fiat Coupe και του πρώτου Fiat Bravo. Στη συνέχεια, μια πολύ καλή πρόταση από τη BMW προέτρεψε τον Ελληνα σχεδιαστή να εγκατασταθεί στο Mόναχο για περίπου 5 χρόνια, όπου και συνέλεξε πολύτιμες εμπειρίες πάνω στον γερμανικό τρόπο σκέψης και σχεδίασης. H λαμπρή πορεία του στη βαυαρική εταιρεία δεν άφησε αδιάφορους τους ανθρώπους της Fiat, οι οποίοι του έκαναν μια νέα πρόταση που θα σηματοδοτούσε την επιστροφή του στο Gruppo. Ετσι, ο Aνδρέας Zαπατίνας το 1998 ανέλαβε τη θέση του διευθυντή στο Centro Stile της Alfa Romeo. Σχεδιαστικά τέκνα αυτής της συνεργασίας ήταν η ανανέωση της Alfa Romeo 145 (μοντέλα ‘99 και ‘00) και αργότερα η μοναδική για την εποχή της Alfa Romeo 147. Ωστόσο, η πορεία του Aνδρέα Zαπατίνα δεν σταμάτησε εκεί. Tο 2002 πήρε μεταγραφή στη Subaru για να αναλάβει τη θέση του διευθυντή στο τμήμα Advanced Design. Πολλοί συνέδεσαν την παρουσία του Zαπατίνα με την όχι και τόσο επιτυχημένη σχεδίαση του εμπρός τμήματος του Subaru B9 Tribeca, γεγονός που δεν ισχύει όμως, καθώς τα σχέδια του αυτοκινήτου ήταν ήδη έτοιμα πριν από την έλευσή του.

Σωτήρης Kωβός

http://media2.feed.gr/filesystem/images/20080318/low/assets_LARGE_t_1461_1292771.JPG

Ενα ακόμη λαμπρό παράδειγμα επιτυχημένου Ελληνα που έχει διαπρέψει εκτός των ελληνικών συνόρων στον τομέα του design αυτοκινήτου. Γεννημένος στην Aθήνα το 1965 και με σπουδές σε Eλλάδα και Mεγάλη Bρετανία (Royal College of Art, Coventry), ο Σωτήρης Kωβός ξεκίνησε την πορεία του από τις Peugeot και Mazda, αλλά η μεγάλη στιγμή ήρθε με τη σχεδίαση του πρώτου Toyota Yaris το 1999. Πίσω από την καθολική αποδοχή του Yaris στη Γηραιά Ηπειρο κρύβεται μια ενδελεχής έρευνα που ξεκίνησε έξι χρόνια πριν από την επίσημη παρουσίαση. H σημαντικότερη διάκριση που απέσπασε το μικρό τής Toyota, την οποία καρπώνεται ο Kωβός, ήταν αδιαμφισβήτητα αυτή του αυτοκινήτου της χρονιάς για το 2000, που ψηφίστηκε από τους Eυρωπαίους δημοσιογράφους. Ωστόσο, ο Ελληνας σχεδιαστής έχει παρουσιάσει και διάφορα πρωτότυπα μοντέλα της Lexus, καθώς και τα SC300 και SC430 της ίδιας εταιρείας. Λίγο αργότερα, ο Σωτήρης Kωβός μετακόμισε στην Audi, αλλά όπως αποδείχτηκε αργότερα, μόνο για διάστημα εννέα μηνών. Kαθοριστικό ρόλο έπαιξε η διαφωνία που είχε με τον Peter Schreyer, υπεύθυνο Σχεδιασμού της Audi. O Ελληνας σχεδιαστής δεν ήθελε απλώς να αναλάβει διοικητικά καθήκοντα στην εταιρεία, αλλά να έχει συμμετοχή στη δημιουργία των νέων μοντέλων, κάτι που δεν κατέστη δυνατό οπότε και απεχώρησε.

Bίκυ Bλαχάκη

http://media2.feed.gr/filesystem/images/20080318/low/assets_LARGE_t_1461_1290766.JPG

Στη λίστα με τους Ελληνες σχεδιαστές αυτοκινήτου περιλαμβάνεται και μια γυναίκα. H ελληνικής καταγωγής σχεδιάστρια γεννήθηκε και μεγάλωσε στην Pasadena της Kαλιφόρνια και όπως ήταν αναμενόμενο λόγω της μεγάλης αγάπης που είχε για το τρισδιάστατο σχέδιο, αποφοίτησε το 1995 από το Transportation Design Art Center της περιοχής της. Tο ίδιο στο οποίο φοίτησε τη δεκαετία του ‘80 και ο Aνδρέας Zαπατίνας. H Βίκυ Βλαχάκη ξεκίνησε την πορεία της στον χώρο του κατασκευαστικού σχεδίου από την Audi, όπου παρακολούθησε για κάποιους μήνες από κοντά το πώς λειτουργεί η όλη διαδικασία σε επαγγελματικό επίπεδο. Στη συνέχεια της προσφέρθηκε μια θέση στο Advanced Design Studio της Mercedes Benz και το 2000 η GM την προσέλαβε για να συμμετάσχει στη σχεδιαστική αναγέννηση των μοντέλων της μάρκας. O ενθουσιασμός και το πάθος της για τη σχεδίαση την έφεραν δύο χρόνια αργότερα στη θέση του Design Manager της GM, ενώ παράλληλα βοήθησε στη δημιουργία των πρωτότυπων Solstice και Chevrolet SS. To 2006 η Bίκυ Bλαχάκη μαζί με την ομάδα της, παρουσίασαν τα μοντέλα παραγωγής Pontiac Solstice και Saturn Sky (η αμερικάνικη εκδοχή του Opel GT), τα οποία απέσπασαν διθυραμβικές κριτικές από τους δημοσιογράφους.

Source: http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?catid=10250&subid=2&tag=7536&pubid=1331179

touristas22
March 25th, 2008, 07:31 PM
^^^^

Exelent post ALMOPOS...I am a strong admirer of all three and especially Sotirhs Kovos...I know that at the moment S.Kovos is designing for Lamborgini as a Design Director. Im not sure but i think Lamborgini was bought by AUDI and thats why he scooched in to get the possition, but im not totaly sure about that. I hope one day that i will return to Greece and start my own business as a designer in order to help the country produce something exept feta, olive products and plastic household products. But this is just a dream...i got to learn how to walk in order to start running..:lol:

Well done ALMOPOS, very interesting. I hope Greeks will embrace design and understand that products,cars,furniture,buildings can not be made exclusively by mechanics and engineers...sorry about the spelling, i was in a hurry:)

Reaper-strain
March 28th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I think some are missed out, here is some wiki links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonis_Volanis - Renault (designer of the Espace), Citroën (designer of the concept car that became the Xsara Picasso)

Small summary in English:

Andreas Zapatinas for Alpha Romeo 145 147 FIAT Coupe, Barchetta, Βravo and Μarea and now designs for Subaru.
Viki Vlahaki that she is designing at the moment the new Pontiac cabriole with the name SOLTIS!
Renault Espace and other Renault cars are designed by Antonis Volanis
NOW LETS SEE TOYOTA!
DID you know that the main design plans in TOYOTA and LEXUS are under the supervising the last years of Sotiris KOVOS..( Yaris and the new Lexus SC 430 are totally made with his hand!) not to mention his contribution to Corolla- Avensis AND parts of RAV4 2004!!! Just look at the new small AYGO! The pronunciation aygo in Greek language means EGG! It is not a coincidence look at the shape.

pilotos
March 28th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Of course we should not also forget the chief designer of the Ferrari F1 team, Nikolaos Tombazis, son of the renown architect.

Almopos
March 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Thanks Reaper-strain and Pilotos. Did not know that about Antonis Volanis and Nikolaos Tombazis.

GrigorisSokratis
February 6th, 2009, 12:51 PM
The Mini

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Morris_Mini-Minor_1959.jpg/800px-Morris_Mini-Minor_1959.jpg

In 1999 the Mini was voted the second most influential car of the 20th Century, behind the Ford Model T. Undoubtedly a Greek creation exploited by smart British businessmen.

This distinctive two-door car was designed for BMC by Sir Alexandros Issigonis. It was manufactured at the Longbridge and Cowley plants in the United Kingdom, the Victoria Park / Zetland British Motor Corporation (Australia) factory in Sydney, Australia, and later also in Spain (Authi), Belgium, Chile, Italy (Innocenti), Portugal, South Africa, Uruguay, Venezuela and Yugoslavia.

The Mini Mark I, had three major UK updates: the Mark II, the Clubman and the Mark III. Within these was a series of variations including an estate car, a pickup truck, a van and the Mini Moke — a jeep-like buggy. The Mini Cooper and Cooper "S" were sportier versions that were successful as rally cars, winning the Monte Carlo Rally four times from 1964 through to 1967, although in 1966 the Mini was disqualified after the finish, along with six other British entrants, which included the first four finishing cars, under a questionable ruling that the cars had used an illegal combination of headlamps and spotlights. Minis were marketed under the Austin and Morris names until Mini became a marque in its own right in 1969.

The designer: Alexandros Issigonis

Alexandros Issigonis was born in Smyrni. His grandfather Demosthenis Issigonis migrated to Smyrni from Paros in the 1830s and through the work he did for the British-built Smyrni-Aydın Railway, in the engineering works that he had established, had managed to acquire British nationality. Demosthenis's son (Alexandros' father) Constantine Issigonis (Κωνσταντίνος Ισηγόνης), was born, with British nationality, in Smyrni in 1872. Constantine studied in England, and later, passed his love of all things English on to his son.

Because Alexandros and his parents were British subjects, they were evacuated to Malta by British Royal Marines in September 1922, ahead of the Turkish occupation of Smyrna at the end of the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922). Following the death of his father in 1922, Alexandros and his mother moved to the UK in 1923. Alec studied engineering at Battersea Polytechnic in London. He failed his mathematics exams three times and subsequently called pure mathematics 'the enemy of every creative genius'. After Battersea Polytechnic, Alex decided to enter the University of London External Programme to complete his university education.

Issigonis went into the motor industry as an engineer and designer working for Humber and competed successfully in motor racing during the 1930s and 1940s. Starting around 1930, he raced a supercharged "Ulster" Austin Seven, later fitting it with a front axle of his own design, leading to employment at Austin. This greatly modified machine was replaced with a radical special completed in 1939, constructed of plywood laminated in aluminium sheeting. The suspension was also of advanced design, with trailing arm front suspension attached to a steel cross-member, and swing axle rear, all with rubber springs made of catapult elastic. This car was remarkably light, weighing 587lb, of which the engine contributed 252lb. By the time the chassis had been completed (hard labour - it was all done by hand, no power tools), Issigonis had moved to Morris, but Austin supplied a "works" specification supercharged side-valve engine. Issigonis usually won, even when entered in the 1100cc class if there was no 750cc category. Most events entered were sprints, but he also raced at circuits.

In 1936, he moved to the Morris Motor Company at Cowley working on an independent front suspension system for the Morris 10. The war prevented this design from going into production but it was later used on the MG Y-type. He worked on various projects for Morris through the war and towards its end started work on an advanced post war car codenamed Mosquito that became the Morris Minor, which was produced from 1948 until 1971. In 1952, just as BMC was formed by the merger of Morris and Austin, he moved to Alvis Cars where he designed an advanced saloon with all aluminium V-8 engine, and experimented with interconnected independent suspension systems. This prototype was never manufactured because its cost was beyond Alvis's resources.

At the end of 1955, Issigonis was recruited back into BMC - this time into the Austin plant at Longbridge - by its chairman Sir Leonard Lord, to design a new model family of three cars. The XC (experimental car) code names assigned for the new cars were XC/9001 - for a large comfortable car, XC/9002 - for a medium-sized family car, and XC/9003 - for a small town car. During 1956 Issigonis concentrated on the larger two cars, producing several prototypes for testing.

However, at the end of 1956, following fuel rationing brought about by the Suez Crisis, Issigonis was ordered by Lord to bring the smaller car, XC/9003, to production as quickly as possible. By early 1957, prototypes were running, and by mid-1957 the project was given an official drawing office project number (ADO15) so that the thousands of drawings required for production could be produced. In August 1959 the car was launched as the Morris Mini Minor and the Austin Mini Seven or just Austin Mini. In later years, the car would become known simply as the Mini. Due to time pressures, the interconnected suspension system that Issigonis had planned for the car was replaced by an equally novel, but cruder, rubber cone system designed by Alex Moulton. The Mini went on to become the best selling British car in history with a production run of 5.3 million cars. This ground-breaking design, with its front wheel drive, transverse engine, sump gearbox, 10-inch wheels, and phenomenal space efficiency, was still being manufactured in 2000 and has been the inspiration for almost all small front-wheel drive cars produced since the early 1960s.

In 1961, with the Mini gaining popularity, Issigonis was promoted to Technical Director of BMC. He continued to be responsible for his original XC projects. XC/9002 became ADO16 and was launched as the Morris 1100 with the Hydrolastic interconnected suspension system in August 1962. XC/9001 became ADO17 and was launched, also with the Hydrolastic suspension system, as the Austin 1800 in October 1964.

Some of the Minis at the Issigonis centenary rallyIssigonis (nicknamed "The Greek god" by his contemporaries) was elected as a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1967 and was awarded a knighthood in 1969. Whilst he is most famous for his creation of the Mini, he was most proud of his participation in the design of the Morris Minor. He considered it to be a vehicle that combined many of the luxuries and conveniences of a good motor car with a price suitable for the working classes - in contrast to the Mini which was a spartan mode of conveyance with everything cut to the bone.

Sir Alexandros officially retired from the motor industry in 1971, although he continued working until shortly before his death. He died in 1988 at his house in Edgbaston, Birmingham, and was cremated at the Lodge Hill Crematorium in nearby Selly Oak.

On 15 October 2006 a rally was held at the Heritage Motor Centre in Gaydon, England, to celebrate the centenary of Sir Alec's birth.

However, his creations are not limited to the Mini, he also designed:

1948 Morris Minor
1962 BMC ADO16
1964 BMC ADO17
1969 Austin Maxi

The machine factory (shown here in a company letter of 1910) founded by Demosthenis Issigonis, Alexandros' grandfather, was one of the thriving Greek businesses in Smyrni. Undoubtedly, it played a role in Alec's affection for Engineering
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d1/Issigonis_factory.jpg/800px-Issigonis_factory.jpg

Some of the Minis at the Issigonis centenary rally
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Issigonis_centenary_rally_Minis.jpg/800px-Issigonis_centenary_rally_Minis.jpg

GrigorisSokratis
February 6th, 2009, 01:30 PM
Other cars designed by Alexandros Issigonis:

Austin Ant

http://www.minimarcos.org.uk/altpics/ant.jpeg

The Austin Ant was a small four-wheel drive vehicle designed by Sir Alex Issigonis for the motor manufacturer British Motor Corporation (BMC). Although the Ant is widely regarded as a military vehicle, some sources suggest it was conceived with civilian use in mind as well. In its military rôle it was a potential successor to the military version of an earlier Issigonis design, the Mini Moke.

The Ant was cancelled in 1968 before full-scale production began, during the period when BMC became part of the British Leyland (BL) conglomerate; the merger caused several overlaps in model ranges, and the Ant was regarded as too close a competitor for the Land Rover range.

The Ant used an A-Series engine, tranverse mounted and tilted slightly backward to allow greater ground clearance and suspension movement. The main gearbox was placed in the engine sump, as on the Mini. A reduction gearbox took power from the main gearbox to the rear axle via a propshaft. The same layout was used 30 years later (with a K-Series engine) on the Rover Group's Land Rover Freelander.

Austin Maxi

Production 1969-1981

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Austin_Maxi_1980.jpg/800px-Austin_Maxi_1980.jpg

The Austin Maxi was a medium sized 5-door hatchback car from British Leyland for the 1970s. It was the first British five speed five-door hatchback.

The Maxi (code name ADO14) was the last car designed under the British Motor Corporation (BMC), and was the last production car designed by Alexandros Issigonis. It was launched in the summer of 1969 shortly after the creation of British Leyland. It followed the five-door hatchback pattern of the French-produced Renault 16, which was European Car of the Year in 1966 following its launch in 1965.

Underneath the Maxi's practical and spacious bodyshell lay an all-new front wheel drive chassis which was interlinked with an innovative five-speed manual transmission. The latter suffered from notorious problems with its control linkage, especially in early models which had a cable-operated linkage prone to cable stretch and other problems. The later rod linkage was less problematic. All models were prone to problems brought on by the "cogs in the sump" layout, where the gearbox and engine shared a common oil supply. The clutch oil seal was also prone to leakage.

Power came from a 1485 cc, later 1748 cc (from 1971) E-Series petrol engine which would later find its way into other British Leyland products like the Austin Allegro. The 1750 and twin-carburettor 1750 HL models offered good performance by the standards of the day.

Despite the new platform, the Maxi's styling suffered from the decision to save tooling costs by carrying over door panels from the BMC ADO17 "Landcrab", which compromised the design. Another styling ambition for the car was a 4-door saloon counterpart — a prototype was built badged as a Morris, but it never made production.

The Maxi featured a spacious interior, comfortable passenger accommodation, competitive prices and reasonable running costs. But it was let down by a dull interior and poor build quality, although it was not quite as notorious for its downfalls as the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina were during the 1970s.

One unusual feature of this car was that the rear seat back, as well as folding forward as in a conventional hatchback, also folded back. In combination with fully reclining front seats this gave satisfactory, if spartan, sleeping accommodation.

Towards the end of the Maxi's life, in 1980, a lightly revised model was marketed as the "Maxi 2".

At the end of 1981, the Austin Maxi's 12-year production life came to an end. Its replacement, the Austin Maestro, which also replaced the smaller Allegro, was introduced in the spring of 1983. Despite its supremely practical design the Maxi never came close to reaching its projected sales targets, it being one of many 1970's Leyland models that came within a whisker of being world beaters.

BMC ADO16

Production: 1962-1974

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Austin_1300_GT_1971_Castle_Hedingham_2008.JPG/800px-Austin_1300_GT_1971_Castle_Hedingham_2008.JPG

The ADO16 (Austin Drawing Office project number 16) was designed by Sir Alexandros Issigonis. Following his success with the Mini, Issigonis set out to design a larger and more sophisticated car which incorporated even more advanced features and innovations. In common with the Mini, the ADO16 was designed around the BMC A-Series engine, mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. As well as single piston swinging caliper disc brakes at the front, which were not common on mass produced cars in the early 1960s, the suspension system used was the Hydrolastic interconnected fluid system designed by Alex Moulton. The mechanically interconnected Citroen 2CV suspension was assessed in the mid-1950s by Alec Issigonis and Alex Moulton, (according to an interview by Moulton with CAR magazine in the late 1990s), and was an inspiration in the design of the Hydrolastic suspension system for the Mini and Austin 1100, to try to keep the benefits of the 2CV system (ride comfort, body levelling, keeping the roadwheel under good control and the tyre in contact with the road), but with added roll stiffness that the 2cv was very much lacking. Pininfarina, the Italian styling studio which had worked with BMC before on the Austin A40 Farina, were asked to do the styling. It was a masterpiece of packaging having comparable interior space to the much larger Ford Cortina.

BMC ADO17

Production: 1964-1975

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Morris_1800_1970.jpg/800px-Morris_1800_1970.jpg

It was developed at BMC as the large-car follow-up to the successful Mini and Austin 1100 under the ADO17 codename. Additional badge-engineered Morris 1800 and Wolseley 18/85 variants were launched, in 1966 and 1967, catering for BMC dealerships selling these marques, and their loyal customers.

The car was unconventional in its appearance in 1964, with its large glasshouse and spacious, minimalist interior including leather, wood, and chrome features plus an unusual instrument display with ribbon speedometer and green indicator light on the end of the indicator stalk. There was a chrome "umbrella handle" handbrake under the dashboard parcel shelf, and the two front seats met in the middle and could be used, on occasion, as a bench seat. Both Alec Issigonis and Pininfarina worked on its exterior. The technology "under the skin" was also unconventional and ahead of its time, including Hydrolastic suspension and an early example of anti-lock brakes, in the form of a valve which transferred braking force between front and rear axles when one set of wheels began to lock up. The bodyshell was exceptionally stiff, featuring greater structural rigidity than many modern cars up to the end of the century.

The Mark I's doors were used on the larger Austin 3-Litre (ADO61) model.

Mark II:
In May 1968 a Mark II version was launched. This featured a cheaper and more conventional interior, revised front grilles and other trim, and for the Austin and Morris models the slim, horizontal rear lights were replaced by vertical "fin" lights which gave a family look along with the smaller ADO16 range. The Wolseley retained its unique rear lights.

In 1969, the doors from the 1800 (with Mark II exterior handles) were used on the bodyshell of the otherwise new Austin Maxi.

By 1970, an 85 bhp "S" model with sporty-looking badging was available.

Mark III:
Further, less dramatic modifications heralded a Mark III version in 1972. This had another change to the front grilles and interior, including a conventional handbrake.

Mini Moke

Production: 1964–1993

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Moke02.png/716px-Moke02.png

The Mini Moke is a vehicle based on the Mini and designed for the British Motor Corporation (BMC) by Sir Alexandros Issigonis. The name comes from "Mini"—the car with which the Moke shares many parts—and "Moke", which is an archaic dialect term for "donkey".

The initial design was a prototype for a light military vehicle in the style of the American Jeep, but its small wheels and low ground clearance made it impractical as an off-road vehicle. It was subsequently offered in a civilian version as a low-cost, easily maintained utility vehicle. The Moke finally achieved success as a beach buggy — becoming a popular 'cult' vehicle in the Seychelles, Australia, the United States and many tropical resorts in the Caribbean. The original Moke used identical engine, transmission and suspension parts to the basic Mini.

Mokes were first built at the Morris factory in Oxford before production moved to BMC's Longbridge, Birmingham plant, and eventually overseas. 14,500 Mokes were produced in the UK between 1964 and 1968, 26,000 in Australia between 1966 and 1981, and 10,000 in Portugal between 1980 and 1993 when production of the Moke ended.

When Issigonis designed the Mini, he planned another vehicle to share the Mini's mechanical parts, but with a more rugged body shell. This was an attempt to take a portion of the military vehicle business from Land Rover. Issigonis had previously designed the Nuffield Guppy in a failed attempt to break into that market. By 1959, BMC had working prototypes of what was codenamed "The Buckboard", later to become the "Mini Moke". These prototypes were shown to the British Army as a parachute-droppable vehicle, but poor ground clearance and a low-powered engine did not meet the most basic requirements for an off-road vehicle. Only the Royal Navy showed any interest at all in the Buckboard—as a vehicle for use on the decks of aircraft carriers.

Early promotional material made much of the lightness of the vehicle, showing four soldiers riding in the Moke off-road, then picking it up by its tubular bumpers and carrying it when (inevitably) its low ground clearance proved inadequate to the task.

In a further attempt to make something for the army, a few four-wheel drive Mokes were made by the addition of a second engine at the back of the vehicle with linked clutches and gear shifters. However, this did nothing to solve the ground-clearance issue, and mechanical complications discouraged development beyond the prototype stage. This strange vehicle was called "The Twini" and was shown to the US Army - again with no success.

Morris Minor

Production: 1948–1971
Units: 1,368,291 produced

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Morris.minor.bristol.750pix.jpg

The revolutionary Morris Minor was launched at the Earls Court Motor Show on 20 September 1948. Named after an earlier Morris Minor car of 1928, it was the work of a team led by Alexandros Issigonis, who later designed the Mini. The prototype had been known as the Morris Mosquito, and some later models were called Morris 1000.

Variants included the standard saloon, a wood-framed estate called the Traveller, and a convertible, plus a panel van and a pick-up truck version.

Sir Alexandros Issigonis is famous for his creation of the Mini and a range of later cars for the British Motor Corporation (BMC), but he became known to the general public for designing the Morris Minor. It was conceived as a vehicle to combine many of the luxuries and conveniences of a good motor car with a price suitable for the working classes. The Morris Minor, when compared with competitor products in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s, excelled as a roomy vehicle with superior cornering / handling characteristics.

Internal politics inside BMC, the parent of Morris, may have led to the limited North American sales of the Minor.

Over 1.6 million of the lightweight, rear-wheel drive car were eventually produced, mainly in Cowley, Oxfordshire, and exported around the world, with many variants of the original model. Production continued in Birmingham, England through to 1971 (for the commercial variants and estate only), and it remains a well loved and collected vehicle.

The original Minor MM series lasted from 1948 until 1953. It included a pair of 4-seat saloons, 2-door and 4-door, and a convertible 4-seat Tourer. The front torsion bar suspension was shared with the larger Oxford MO, as was the almost-unibody construction. Although the Minor was originally designed to accept a flat-4 engine, with four distinctive gaps in the engine bay to accommodate it, late in the development stage it was replaced by a 0.9 L (918 cc/56 in³) side-valve straight-4 producing 27.5 hp (21 kW) and 39 lbf·ft (53 N·m) of torque. This little engine pushed the Minor to just 64 mph (103 km/h) but delivered 40 miles per imperial gallon (7.1 L/100 km; 33 mpg-US).

Early cars had a painted section in the centre of the bumpers to cover the widening of the production car from the prototypes. This widening of four inches (102 mm) is also visible in the creases in the bonnet. Exports to the United States began in 1949 with the headlamps removed from within the grille to be mounted higher on the wings to meet safety regulations. These became standard on all Minors for 1951. When production of the first series ended, just over a quarter of a million had been sold with a surprising 30% being the convertible Tourer model.

A tourer tested by the British magazine The Motor in 1950 had a top speed of 58.7 mph (94.5 km/h) and could accelerate from 0-50 mph (80 km/h) in 29.2 seconds. A fuel consumption of 42 miles per imperial gallon (6.7 L/100 km; 35 mpg-US) was recorded. The test car cost £382 including taxes.

Morris Oxford MO

Production: 1948–54

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Morris_Oxford_MO_1952.jpg/800px-Morris_Oxford_MO_1952.jpg

After World War II, the Oxford MO took the place of the Morris 10HP. It was introduced in 1948 and was produced through to 1954. The design was shared with Nuffield Organisation stable-mate Wolseley as the Wolseley 4/50.

Designed by Alexandros Issigonis, the Oxford, with the Morris Minor, introduced unit construction techniques, though it is not widely recognized as a true unibody car. Torsion beam front suspension was another novelty, and 8 inch (200 mm) drum brakes hydraulically operated were fitted all around. Under the bonnet, the MO was a step back in technology from the pre-war Ten. It used a side valve straight-4 rather than the older overhead valve unit. The single SU carburettor engine displaced 1.5 L (1476 cc/90 in³) and with its output of 40.5 bhp (30.2 kW) at 4200 rpm could propel the car to 72 mph (116 km/h). The four speed gearbox had a column change and steering was by rack and pinion.

The MO was sold as a 4-door saloon and 2-door Traveller estate with exposed wood, both with four seats. It was replaced by the Series II Oxford in 1954.

The Motor magazine tested a Traveller in 1952 and found it to have a top speed of 64 mph (103 km/h) and acceleration from 0-50 mph (80 km/h) in 26.2 seconds. A fuel consumption of 26.4 miles per imperial gallon (10.7 L/100 km; 22.0 mpg-US) was recorded. The test car cost £825 including taxes.

A six cylinder version was sold as the Morris Six MS.

A Commercial Vehicle version of the Morris Oxford MO was produced from 1950-56 as a Van, pickup, chassis cab and used some of the bodywork of the Oxford MO but with a chassis underneath. This was marketed as the Morris Cowley MCV (see photo, below).

1821
March 17th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Browsing wikipedia, I came across the following. I will just say what a bloody great shame it is that successive Greek governments have not encouraged and assisted in such developments, and allowed for the production of locally designed passenger cars. Some of the designs are as good as anything else found around the world.
A hydrogen powered small car designed in Greece by Tropical. Tropical have been heavily involved in the research and development of "hydrogen-powered generators, appliances and vehicles."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Tropical_car2008.jpg

I also came across this..the Tzen sports car of 1970.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Tzen.jpg

This guy is now working on a small electric car as of 2005 apparently.

EngineerGreece
March 17th, 2009, 09:07 PM
Browsing wikipedia, I came across the following. I will just say what a bloody great shame it is that successive Greek governments have not encouraged and assisted in such developments, and allowed for the production of locally designed passenger cars. Some of the designs are as good as anything else found around the world.
A hydrogen powered small car designed in Greece by Tropical. Tropical have been heavily involved in the research and development of "hydrogen-powered generators, appliances and vehicles."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Tropical_car2008.jpg


I'm afraid this is a global problem. No one encourages people to buy hydrogen cars. Oil is not finished yet. And the companies want all the money that can be possible taken out of it.

We all know that when something turns to finish or it is in low numbers and there is demand, the prices go up.

GrigorisSokratis
March 22nd, 2009, 06:58 AM
I'm afraid this is a global problem. No one encourages people to buy hydrogen cars. Oil is not finished yet. And the companies want all the money that can be possible taken out of it.

We all know that when something turns to finish or it is in low numbers and there is demand, the prices go up.

That government indifference toward new kind of industries and technology can be traced back to the 50s when the then administrations took positions in favour of the interests of a few (industrial monopoly); such an erroneous policy led our country to some kind of new-technologies industrial stagnation unlike in other countries of the continent like Italy or Germany.

The interests of a few during those times, resulted in economical policies which made extremelly difficult to take credits; so the industrial sector not only was monopolized but it was stuck in traditional kind of industries (mainly based on textiles, food processing, cement). Of course there were some exceptions, especially in the ship building industrial sector.

Thus many innovative minds of the time witnessed the sad vanishing of their dreams.

THAT was the perfect moment for the creation of new companies based on new technologies instead of tradional ones (ie. a successful Greek car brand, heavy machinery, electronics, etc) .

Taking into account the highly innovative nature of the average Greek; I'm pretty sure that our automobile industry would have been based on Greek companies instead of foreign investments (as in the case of Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Sweden, South Korea, the UK, America....and the Czech Republic).

It is noteworthy the fact that by those times, Greece and Japan had interchangeably the largest growth rates worldwide during the period 1950-1973 (the well known Greek miracle).

Economists and investors of the time believed that both Greece and Japan were the best places for the production of electronic goods and that eventually both countries would turn into the major providers of electronic goods worldwide. Of course they were right with Japan but they failed in the case of Greece. But not because Greece didn't provide fertile human and economical ground for such kind of investments; but because of the wrong policies undertaken by the then administrations; who considered wiser to base the economy on traditional kind of industries (mainly belonging to cronies of the government) instead of innovative technologies. :bash:

There were lots of proposals and offers made, but most of them (if not all) were turned down; (let's not forget that until the 1960s there were only three main banks; Ethniki, Emporiki and Ioniki which monopolized credits; and were favorable to the government and controlled by the latter).

Most car and electronic companies were self-funded (by their humble owners); but that wasn't enough, as unlike in Japan our visionary politicians blocked the market to these people with high tariffs; and their ideas sank into the pages of old would-be history. :ohno:

Just imagine how good would have been for the Greek economy a Greek version of companies like Hyundai, Volkswagen or Citroen.

EngineerGreece
March 22nd, 2009, 09:52 AM
^^

Absolutely agree.

About what I said to my previous post was for hydrogen cars allover the world. ;)

The technology exists and it's the cleanest and endless power but yet we still use petrol. Unbelievable. It's a crime to the humanity. :ohno:

Sodnal
April 19th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Hydrogen technology exists, but it is still too costly for most vehicles. About 3 times the cost of a petrol car.

Focus should be on getting the costs down. Start looking for niche markets, like motorbikes. Establish the technology and develop it. Look down the road to a time when Petroleum goes back up in price.

At this point R & D needs to be emphasized on fuel cells to get costs out. That's where the focus needs to be.

1964Byron
June 2nd, 2009, 12:49 PM
Dear GrigorisSokratis,

I congratulate you and thank you for this great thread.

I believe to all us Greek Renaissance dreamers the Greek designed and made car holds a special place in our hearts.

Great for past knowledge as well as food for thought.

Thanks again.