Skuffet Hvidovre-borgmester kræver Holbækmotorvejen overdækket
Hvidovre Kommune kræver, at regeringen overdækker både den nye jernbane og et stykke af Holbækmotorvejen, når regeringen ikke kan finde to milliarder kroner til en ny tunnel.

Hvidovres borgmester, Milton Graff Pedersen (S), kræver nu sammen med Finn Gerdes (S), formand for teknisk udvalg, at ikke bare den nye jernbane til Ringsted men også et stykke af Holbækmotorvejen overdækkes.

Kravet fremgår af at harmdirrende høringssvar til udkastet til loven om den nye jernbane, som kommunen sendte torsdag.

Milton Graff Pedersen er fortørnet over, at Trafikstyrelsen og regeringen indtil videre har afvist enhver snak om at grave jernbanen ned i en tunnel gennem Valby og Hvidovre. Han påpeger sammen med sin udvalgsformand, at netop en tunnel specifikt er nævnt i de arealreservationer, som i 2003 blev tinglyst på naboejendommene til den kommende bane.

En tunnel vil ifølge høringssvaret fordyre den godt ti milliarder kroner dyre jernbane med yderligere to milliarder kroner. De penge har der hidtil ikke været lydhørhed over for at bruge på Christiansborg.

Kræver overdækning til 450 millioner kroner
I stedet fremsætter Milton Graff Pedersen det nye krav om at overdække 450 meter af Holbækmotorvejen. Det ligger på det sted, hvor jernbanen kommer allertættest på både veje og boliger, nemlig ved Hvidovrevej.

Ifølge kommunens høringssvar koster overdækningen en million kroner per meter, altså 450 millioner kroner i alt. Dertil kommer et krav om at overdække jernbanen på en længere strækning, hvor der nu er planlagt med et åbent trug.

»Regeringen og partierne bag beslutningen om Nybygningsløsningen vægter tilsyneladende økonomi højere end borgernes livskvalitet og sundhed,« harcelerer Milton Graff Pedersen i sit høringssvar.

Han forsøger at lokke penge til overdækning af motorvejen i Hvidovre ved at slå på, at både jernbane og motorvej til Københavns Lufthavn blev overdækket ved Englandsvej på Amager, og at politikerne har lovet hinanden at bruge 350 millioner kroner på en overdækning af den nye Ringsted-bane ved Kulbanevej i Valby.

»Det har ved et tidligere og tilsvarende baneprojekt - jernbanen til Kastrup Lufthavn og Malmø – været muligt at finde de fornødne midler til overdækning af jernbane og motorvej i Tårnby, så hvorfor kan det ikke gøres igen,« spørger borgmesteren.

Se det dog i sammenhæng: Jernbanen påvirker motorvejen
Hvidovre Kommunes tekniske direktør, Anders Thanning, finder det forkert, at de statslige myndigheder ser på den kommende jernbane og Holbækmotorvejen, som giver betydelige støjgener, hver for sig.

»Når man går i gang med at lave en jernbane, som ligger så klods op ad motorvejen, så virker det rimeligt, at man kigger på det samlede anlægs miljøgener og afbøder dem,« mener han.

Anders Thanning mener, at det er »en grundlæggende fejl« at bygge jernbanen, som den er beskrevet af Trafikstyrelsen indtil videre.

»Herudefra opleves den som en discountløsning,« siger han.

Jernbanen har allerede været igennem én høring i forbindelse med Trafikstyrelsens VVM-redegørelse.

»Nu markerer tingene sig tydeligere for borgere og politikere, og så rejser der sig en voldsom bekymring. Vores høringssvar skal ses som et sidste forsøg på at råbe vagt i gevær,« siger Anders Thanning.

Flyt jernbanen ud på motorvejen
Kommunen taler også for at mindske generne for borgerne i blandt andet andelsboligforeningen Thorvalds Minde, som skal have endelejlighederne revet af for at give plads til byggeriet af den nye jernbane.

Hvis der ikke er penge til den store overdækning i Hvidovre, foreslår borgmesteren, at politikerne lytter til et forslag fra den lokale ingeniør Thyge Lauritsen. Han foreslår, at en del af jernbanen flyttes væk fra Vigerslev Allé, hvor den løber parallelt med Holbækmotorvejen, og ned på selve motorvejen. Den flytning er også en forudsætning for overdækningen.

Det vil betyde, at motorvejen skal indsnævres, så der kun bliver to spor i hver i retning, hvor der i dag er tre i den ene retning. Vejdirektoratet har protesteret, men beboernes trivsel er vigtigere end muligheden for senere at udvide motorvejen, mener Hvidovre Kommune.

Ved at lægge banen ned ved motorvejen, kan boligblokkene lades i fred, og skinnerne kommer længere end 20 meter væk fra i alt seks boligblokke, som ellers vil ligge meget tæt på jernbanen.

Trafikstyrelsen: Det bliver dyrere
Trafikstyrelsen og transportminister Lars Barfoed (K) har tidligere afvist at inddrage noget af motorvejen til den nye jernbanen. Trafikministeren har i et svar til trafikudvalget blandt andet henvist til, at det vil føre til meget store omlægninger af trafikken, mens byggeriet står på.

Samtidig viser beregninger fra Trafikstyrelsen, at det i alt er 41 millioner kroner dyrere at flytte jernbanen ned på motorvejen.

Den merpris kalder Milton Graff Pedersen »helt marginal«, mens ingeniør Thyge Lauritsen mener, at beregningen bygger på et forkert grundlag. Det skyldes, at Trafikstyrelsen efter hans mening regner med at lade jernbanen løbe på en længere strækning, end han selv har foreslået. Han anslår derfor forsigtigt, at hans forslag vil give en besparelse på omkring 40 millioner kroner og ikke en ekstraregning.

Besparelsen skyldes først og fremmest en masse arbejde, som skal foretages, hvis jernbanen skal graves ned ved siden motorvejen.

»Hvidovre bliver gennem flere år voldtaget af alt det arbejde, der skal laves med jernbanen. Hvis vi kan lægge en jernbanetunnel ud på motorvejen, sparer vi meget af det,« siger Thyge Lauritsen.

Beboerne i de mest plagede ejendomme på Vigerslev Allé, andelsboligforeningen Thorvalds Minde, har bedt om at blive eksproprieret, så alle bygningerne kan rives ned, men det afviser Trafikstyrelsen.

Source: http://ing.dk/artikel/105771-skuffet-hvidovre-borgmester-kraever-holbaekmotorvejen-overdaekket?utm_medium=email&utm_source=nyhedsbrev&utm_campaign=ingformiddag

Der er ikke styr på noget som helst.
Whose idea was it to build Holbækmotorvejen if I may ask ?

^^ No, it seems a bit muddy. But I think the solution proposed by Milton Graff is quite good. It was a big mistake not to cover the intersection of Holbækmotorvejen and Hvidovrevej in the first place.

Københavnske politikere vil have mere metro
Metroen skal udvides, hvor københavnerne bor, og hvor der i forvejen er tæt trafikeret, mener Socialdemokratiet, Venstre, konservative, radikale, DF, SF og Enhedslisten.

Om otte år er metroens første tre etaper suppleret med den 18 milliarder kroner dyre metrocityring. Men de københavnske politikere er ikke tilfredse. De vil have mere metro og vil allerede i år have undersøgt hvor.

Et konservativt forslag om allerede nu at undersøge, hvor der er størst behov for at etablere en nye metrostrækning bliver fremlagt i morgen i Københavns Borgerrepræsentation, og ifølge Berlingske vil forslaget blive vedtaget.

Mens SF, Enhedslisten og de radikale vil have metro til Brønshøj, ser de konservative en ny cirkel-metro for sig. Cirklen skal råde bod på en mangel ved Metrocityringen og forbinde København med Amager og med Rigshospitalet som mulig station.

S, V og DF vil afvente undersøgelsen, før de vil udpege favoritmetrostrækninger.

Og pengene – de skal skaffes af staten, mener lokalpolitikerne.

Det er Venstres trafikpolitiske ordfører, Kristian Pihl Lorentzen, ikke enig i. Skal Folketinget medfinansiere københavnske trafikprojekter, er en havnetunnel, ifølge Pihl Lorentzen, højere prioriteret.
Source: http://ing.dk/artikel/105868-koebenhavnske-politikere-vil-have-mere-metro

Og pengene – de skal skaffes af staten, mener lokalpolitikerne.

Good luck with that. As far as I know, the govs haven't paid a single crown for our metro... In the old days it was funded by privates. Today it's funded by the county(ies) + the toll roads.

VR has gone green-white. The red-white colour scheme of the trains will be ditched gradually.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9381/b041ab2d6ed7f63885de090.jpg

In other news, Finland got its first Pendolino Allegro train (Hki-St. Petersburg) a while ago:
http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135252840089.jpeg

NordBalt gets go ahead (http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/10322065/?NordBalt.gets.go.ahead=2010-03-19_16-40)

Lietuvos Energija director general Aloyzas Koryzna and Affaersverket Svenska Kraftnaet head Mikael Odenberg signed a cooperation agreement on Thursday for the NordBalt project.

<...>

The joint construction of the infrastructure will depend on individual countries. Lietuvos Energija is responsible for half of the cable and the facilities near Klaipeda. Likewise the Swedes are responsible for their side.

The agreement also outlined the financing arrangements where the EU will pay 131 million euros in support out of the total 552 million euros needed.

<...>

The cable should be ready by 2016.

Pics of some new underground stations in Malmö;


Entrances;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_MalmoC2.jpg?t=1275483129

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100526_MalmoC1.jpg?t=1275483231
http://www.citytunneln.com/sv/2778/Kontaktpersoner/Malmo-C/

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100414_triangeln2.jpg?t=1275483986

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100510_triangeln1.jpg?t=1275484011

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100510_triangeln2.jpg

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_triangeln3.jpg

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_triangeln2.jpg

Hyllie
http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100304_hyllie1.jpg?t=1275483824

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100304_hyllie2.jpg?t=1275483859

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_Hyllie2.jpg



Interiors / platforms;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_MalmoC3.jpg?t=1275483163

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_MalmoC4.jpg

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100414_triangeln1.jpg?t=1275483948

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100518_triangeln4.jpg

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/20100304_hyllie3.jpg?t=1275483889

Triangeln is beautuful. Damn beautiful. On the other hand, the platform benches look strangely sloped...

The sloped benches are quite common these days. Guessing it's because they don't want people sleeping on them. Another version is to put armrests every half meter along the length of the bench.

So they don't want people to take a sleep on benches anymore? What a poor and depressing world we are making..

Same design on Nydalen subway station, if I my memory is right.

China wants Nordic railway link

A railway connection from China, through Russia, the Nordic countries and to the Norwegian port of Narvik might not be far from becoming reality, Swedish Communications Minister Åsa Torstensson maintains.
The railway line is subject for discussion at a two-day transport meeting in Haparanda, northern Sweden, this week. The meeting includes representatives of the Nordic countries, Russia and China, Swedish Radio reports.

-The Chinese want to do business, and that is the background for their big interest in the transport corridor, Leif Zetterberg, State Secretary in the Ministry of Enterprise, Energy and Communications, told the broadcaster.

-This is not necessarily far from becoming reality, Minister Torstensson adds. She confirms that the Chinese Minister of Railways last summer visited Sweden to outline his country’s interest in the project. –He [the minister] was very clear about the huge possibilities with such a connection, Torstensson says.

During that same trip, the Chinese minister visited also Norway and met with Norwegian Minister of Transport Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa. The Norwegian minister after the meeting with the high-ranking Chinese official admitted to NRK that she was thrilled about the plans.

With the route, China would get a quick alternative connection via Haparanda to the Norwegian port of Narvik, where cargo can be reloaded onto vessels for further transport to Island and the USA.

The key condition for the plans is however that Russia endorses the plans and facilitates smooth transport.

Source: http://www.barentsobserver.com/china-wants-nordic-railway-link.4793851-16175.html

Some infra porn from Malmö;


Central Station area U/C;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_MalmoC3.jpg?t=1276788397


Triangeln North;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_Triangeln4.jpg?t=1276788968


Triangeln South;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_Triangeln3.jpg?t=1276789354


Hyllie;

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_hyllie2.jpg?t=1276789118

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_hyllie3.jpg?t=1276789162

That's hot stuff staff.. ;-)

Put big spider like legs on this one and it would own 99,9% of all stations in the world,
(give it good light too). *okay, meet me near spider station at 5* lol

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/christoballien/100603_Triangeln4.jpg?t=1276788968



All three stations are well above anything we got so far in Sweden/Nordic, now let's make all other Swedish city's jealous and they will follow and maybe "pimp" there stations too.

Tomtom made a research in where it included 59 cities in EU with a population above 500.000. The results for us is:

16.Oslo
39.Tallinn
40.Helsinki
47.København
51.Vilnius
56.Stockholm

So Stockholm has the least congestion of all major cities in our region. Also almost the lowest number in the whole EU. I guess that the good s-tog/subway network and congestion charging really help the city to get it down in the ranking despite the heavy growth rate. However, the situation for pedestrians and cyclists is ok but not really good since too much space is reserved for cars.

I think that Tallin and Vilnius will go up in the coming years due to increased car ownership. Helsinki&Köbenhavn will go down because of major investments in PT. Köbenhavn is also considering a new outer bypass which could reduce the total congestion in the short term.

In the top of the list, we find mainly cities from the UK.

This news is a few months old, but still relevant.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/press-release/erpnf_tmoaf_tomtom-european-capital-of-congestion-brussels-is-the-most-gridlocked-city-in-europe-932973.html

Interesting, but no surprise. Oslo is about to be strangled by traffic. A rapid population growth in the metro area last 10 years is probably the main reason. The construction of both roads and public transport is just too slow. I'm afraid Oslo will be in the top 3 within 10 years..

Ohh wow Stockholm is so low, this is surprising.
I have not been to Oslo in ages has the city pop really grown that much...strange!

Ohh wow Stockholm is so low, this is surprising.


At least your traffic is moving.. ;)


I have not been to Oslo in ages has the city pop really grown that much...strange!


Hmm.. Well, it has. I moved to the city in -94. Since then the city has grown with almost 25%, and that is just the official number without all the thousands of unregistrated workers and illegal immigrants. The infrastructure is pretty much the same though.

We do what we can, but when the only contributor to the budget is a 20-crown paid by cars entering the city border, there's just a certain limit to how far one can go.


When that's said, some stuff that has happened since '94:


New HSR to northern suburbs
New motorway to northern suburbs
New motorway to southern suburbs
New Metro ring with 3 new stations
New tunnel under the Oslofjord, functioning as an outer ringroad
New motorwaytunnel from downtown east to northern (inner-)suburbs
New railline to western suburbs
New HSR to southern suburbs
New motorwaytunnels on the outer (suburban) ringroad
And a new main airport!:D

Ohh wow Stockholm is so low, this is surprising.
I have not been to Oslo in ages has the city pop really grown that much...strange!
Stockholm have congestion charges and a very good u-bahn/s-tog service. Few cities has 100 or more u-bahn stations. Stockholm is one of them. We also have the new tvärbana which is being extended to Solna/Kista.

"Sweden's capital has probably one of the best public transport systems in Europe, especially if you look at the total length of rapid rail (T-bana, commuter rail and light rail lines) for a relatively low number of inhabitants, only about 800.000 in the city of Stockholm"
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/sto/stockhlm.htm

Interesting, but no surprise. Oslo is about to be strangled by traffic. A rapid population growth in the metro area last 10 years is probably the main reason. The construction of both roads and public transport is just too slow. I'm afraid Oslo will be in the top 3 within 10 years..
I guess building bridges and complicated tunnels cost some money, you have a very attractive landscape.
53 billion NOK is going to be spent on Oslopakke 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Package_3

I guess building bridges and complicated tunnels cost some money, you have a very attractive landscape.
53 billion NOK is going to be spent on Oslopakke 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Package_3

Yeah, those packages.. It's just too late, and not enough. The only way to stop Oslo from getting more congestied is probably some insane prices through the toll ring.

After watching that list,all I can say is that Tallinn will certainly rise in it :ohno: Cuts in PT (no late night buses,trolleybuses;serious cuts frequency & schedule of PT) and increasing population (few months ago official city pop.reached 406 703,I don't know about metro area ...probably around 100'000+) means that Tallinn faces rapid rise of traffic congestion. Few infrastructure projects in coming years will help to easy it slightly,but entire focus should be on public transportation instead of making people more comfortably of using cars. Future looks really grim for Tallinn :no:

Well, judging from my personal experience, using the public transport in Stockholm is a pleasure. :)

Stockholm have congestion charges and a very good u-bahn/s-tog service. Few cities has 100 or more u-bahn stations. Stockholm is one of them. We also have the new tvärbana which is being extended to Solna/Kista.

But Oslo has a fairly extensive t-bane network as well. This comes on top of a decent tram network, and also local trains. But Stockholms t-bana has about 4 times as many passengers as Oslos t-bane! Even though Stockholm urban area is only about 1.5 times the population of Oslos urban area. And as far as I know its not that the passenger numbers in Oslo are particulary bad (although they could be better).

Stockholm must be doing something right :)

I would be curious to know why the difference is so big.

Oslos PT track based network (red = t-bane, orange = tram, grey = normal trains):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Oslo_t-bane.jpg/800px-Oslo_t-bane.jpg

When that's said, some stuff that has happened since '94:


New HSR to northern suburbs
New motorway to northern suburbs
New motorway to southern suburbs
New Metro ring with 3 new stations
New tunnel under the Oslofjord, functioning as an outer ringroad
New motorwaytunnel from downtown east to northern (inner-)suburbs
New railline to western suburbs
New HSR to southern suburbs
New motorwaytunnels on the outer (suburban) ringroad
And a new main airport!:D


True, and even more if you go back a bit further in time:
- Vålerengatunnellen
- Ekebergtunnellen
- Festningstunnellen
- A much better intersection at Sinsen (anyone remember the traffic jams through the old one :ohno:)

The Oslo packages have certainly done a lot.

But not sure what HSR to southern suburbs you are referring to?

Stockholm must be doing something right :)

I would be curious to know why the difference is so big.
P&T in Stockholm consists of about 50% bustraffic and 50% trams/u-bahn/s-tog/boats and other(if I remember it correctly). Commuting also involves in changing from u-bahn to another system. It can start with a bustrip, then switching to u-bahn, then to a s-tog line. It is important to have as little delays as possible since small delays at one branch can have big effects. How reliable is your system?

Frequency is also lower in the branches. Oslo has 15 minutes, While Stockholm has at least 10 minutes(less at friday and saturday from 01.00 to 05.00 and nothing at all during sunday-thursday at 01.00-05.00).

Having S-togs on separate tracks increase the capacity/frequency/speed and decrease the amount of delays.

Other factors such as car ownership and the cityplanning also affects the amount of P&T users.

How reliable is your system?

Frequency is also lower in the branches. Oslo has 15 minutes, While Stockholm has at least 10 minutes(less at friday and saturday from 01.00 to 05.00 and nothing at all during sunday-thursday at 01.00-05.00).


The t-bane is reasonably reliable, but local trains are not. And the tram has to compete with cars (although some tracks are in dedicated corridors).

The frequency in Oslo sucks, but through the centre it's much better. This could be a reason why Stockholms t-bane has more passengers.

It could also look like Stockholm is more buildt up around the metro system, with dense local centres along the stations. I suppose this has to do with city planning done way back in time.

The t-bane is reasonably reliable, but local trains are not. And the tram has to compete with cars (although some tracks are in dedicated corridors).

The frequency in Oslo sucks, but through the centre it's much better. This could be a reason why Stockholms t-bane has more passengers.

It could also look like Stockholm is more buildt up around the metro system, with dense local centres along the stations. I suppose this has to do with city planning done way back in time.
It is, yes. Except for the innercity, Subway-Stockholm mostly consists of somewhat boring suburbs with facilities close to the subway entrances and appartment blocks further away.

I would rather have more congestion in the city than lots of boring places constructed to reduce it. There's lots of underpasses, freeflowing roads roads there that reduce the urbanity.

Well the car users still complain and wants more to be done.

Here's what's done in the moment Another almost all underground western bypass is(there's already a 6-lane freeflowing western bypass) planned for 3 billion euro with a length of 21 kilometers. A 1 billion euro 5 km long northern bypass is U/C. A 1+1 commuter tunnel is U/C, the tvärbana light rail extension of 7 km is U/C, being mostly gradeseparated.

Also a not gradeseparated tramline is being extended a few hundered meters.

But I'm not sure about it's effect on the congestion. Warzaw which had the second place has dense network of 30 innercity tramlines. Wroclaw(650k residents) placed third have 21 lines. Both networks coveres pretty much all of the cities and has a netstructure.
http://urbanrail.net/eu/wroc/wroclaw.htm

Well, since both cities have ringroads in U/C it would be interesting to see this comparision again. Having lots of lines with no motorways and poor/no subway obviously leads to congestion for a normal big metro.

New motorwaytunnel from downtown east to northern (inner-)suburbs


- Ekebergtunnellen
:)

But not sure what HSR to southern suburbs you are referring to?

Østfoldbanen between Ski and Moss is built for 200 km/h, done in 1994.

The t-bane is reasonably reliable, but local trains are not. And the tram has to compete with cars (although some tracks are in dedicated corridors).

The frequency in Oslo sucks, but through the centre it's much better. This could be a reason why Stockholms t-bane has more passengers.

It could also look like Stockholm is more buildt up around the metro system, with dense local centres along the stations. I suppose this has to do with city planning done way back in time.

Frequency on line 5 is every 7,5 min in daytime. In the fall this will also be the case for line 2.

For the traffic numbers, it's obvious both that the Stockholm subway covers a lot more of the downtown area, than the Oslo subway dose. The Oslo subway also covers huge suburban villa-districts, especially in the west.

Another explanation could be that Stockholm city centre have a stronger position vs suburbs than Oslo vs suburbs. As I have understood it¨there aint that much going on in the Stockholm suburbs, and people use the M a lot more, because the city is where you need to go. Oslo don't have this sharp defined roles for city centre vs suburbs. If you live in Bærum or Asker for instance, you don't need to visit Karl Johan for your daily shopping so to speak.

Stockholm urban area have approximately 1.3 millions. 1 million lives in the suburbs.

In the case of Oslo it is approximately 900.00, with 700.000 in the suburbs.

^^
Just to mention a few subway-suburbs that's quite far away from the citycentre:
http://www.vallingbycity.se/Om-Vallingby-City/
http://www.skhlm.se/se/Shopping_Guide.aspx
http://www.morbycentrum.se/Butiker/
http://www.kistagalleria.se/butiker/
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farsta_Centrum
http://www.hallundacentrum.se/butiker/butiker.php

These are built for both cars and people since they are very close to the one of the subway entrances. Other subway-suburbs usually don't have hundreds of shops, normally just the basic(barber, grocery store, clothes/shoe-shop, alcohol-shop, ABM, pharmacy, pizza restuarant, hotdog/hamburger kiosk, pressbyrå kiosk etc).

I have a few questions about the current status of public transit in Copenhagen and Stockholm.

First of all, is there going to be any new rolling stock for either the Copenhagen S-tog or the Stockholm Tunnelbana five to ten years down the line?

Also, how is the integration of Saltsjöbanan with Tvärbanan going to be handled? Will all the platforms on the former line be lowered in order to be compatible with the rolling stock run on the latter line?

New Pågatåg has been delivered to Skånetrafiken;

http://a.imageshack.us/img245/7847/16082010769levels.jpg


http://a.imageshack.us/img266/2285/16082010763.jpg


http://a.imageshack.us/img266/2160/16082010782.jpg


http://a.imageshack.us/img266/6805/16082010784.jpg


http://a.imageshack.us/img266/6879/16082010799.jpg

^^
The paint of the exterior, the interior design...it's all very simple but modern and the overall result is just :drool:

^^ Yeah, I like it too – the extended use of reflex-blue/near-purple-blue could have ended up really bad, but I think it looks very neat. It's a great contrast to the orange signal colour.

According to report:

High-speed trains between Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm would knock out the entire air travel market, according to a report from research firm Urbanet on behalf of the European project Coinco North.

Nordiska snabbtåg skulle knocka flyg

Höghastighetståg mellan Köpenhamn, Oslo och Stockholm skulle slå ut hela flygmarknaden, enligt en rapport från analysfirman Urbanet på uppdrag av EU-projektet Coinco Nord.

http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/nyheter/nordiska-snabbtag-skulle-knocka-flyg_5181993.svd

^That's what a lot of people have been saying for a while now. Me being one of them :D

Giant drill Åsa has broken through Hallandsåsen tunnel project 18 years after the project first started.

Watch it live.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7670022.ab

Efter 18 år – i dag bryter jätteborren genom Hallandsåsen

Giftskandaler, byggstopp och skadeståndsprocesser är över. Idag sker det stora genombrottet under Hallandsåsen.
Jätteborren Åsa brakar igenom den allra sista biten berg om ett par timmar.
Ögonblicket är historiskt – efter 18 år av motgångar.

Edit: It is really fascinating to follow! :)

^^ Wow, I remember the poison scandal – that's a looong time ago...

And it's another 5 years til trains can use the tunnel :D
This is the main choking point of the Malmö-Göteborg line today iirc.

It seems that some of Arlanda Express's X3 trains are getting a makeover as of this summer.

http://www.lokman.se/Tagbilder/Svenska_tag/Svenska_persontag.htm (look for the 7th photo down under the heading "Arlanda Express").

The new design is reminiscent of the Civia trains that are in use by the RENFE Cercanias networks.

One of the entrances to Triangeln station in Malmö-- due for opening in early December.


http://www.sydsvenskan-img.se/archive/00737/tunnel_737492a.jpg

Plans for extending the Copenhagen Metro with a line below Öresund towards downtown Malmö;


http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/article1227105/Malmo-kan-bli-del-av-danska-metron.html
Malmö kan bli del av danska metron

Text: Stig Strömkvist
Uppdaterad 2 september 2010 8.54 Publicerad 2 september 2010 6.302010-09-02 06:30:00

Sverige.Med intäkter från Öresundsbron bör det byggas en tågtunnel mellan Malmö och Köpenhamn. Det anser både kommunstyrelsens ordförande Ilmar Reepalu (S) och överborgmästare Frank Jensen (S).
Och i åtminstone Malmö är det största oppositionspartiet helt med på noterna.

http://www.sydsvenskan-img.se/archive/00831/tunnel_831036k.jpg

– En jättebra idé, säger Moderatledaren Anja Sonesson. En tågtunnel skulle vara väldigt positiv för både regionen och Malmö.

Ilmar Reepalu säger att han och Frank Jensen diskuterat tågtunneln det senaste halvåret. Bakgrunden är den kraftigt ökande pendlingen mellan de bägge städerna och att kapaciteten på Öresundsbron har en gräns.

– Behovet kommer att uppstå när förbindelsen över Fehmarn Bält är klar och mer tågtrafik ska över Öresundsbron. Då kan vi lyfta av en del av persontrafiken från bron, säger Reepalu som tycker det är lämpligt om tunneln kan tas i trafik år 2025.

Tanken är att tågtunneln ska bli en del av Köpenhamns metro. I Malmö kan stationen ligga vid gamla posthuset och bli granne med centralstationen. I Köpenhamn kan tunneln landa vid Österport.

– Jag tycker att en metro*tunnel är en riktigt bra idé, säger Frank Jensen. Den skulle öka integrationen och tillväxten i regionen ännu mer.

Någon färdig prislapp finns ännu inte. Enligt Ilmar Reepalu kan det handla om omkring nio miljarder kronor. Kalkberget är det samma i de bägge städerna liksom under vattnet i Öresund.

– Det blir både billigt och effektivt att borra i berget, säger Reepalu. Och vi tänker oss att finansiera bygget med överskottet från Bron när den är färdigbetald.

Svenska och danska staten äger bron. Har ni talat med regeringarna om finansieringsmodellen?

– Jag tog upp tågtunneln vid det senaste Öresundstinget då regeringen var representerad. Men det verkade som om folk inte begrep vad jag talade om eller så tog de inte förslaget på allvar. Någon gång i höst ska jag diskutera frågan med regeringen.

Ilmar Reepalu understryker att tunnelförslaget inte ska påverka tunnelprojektet mellan Helsingborg och Helsingör.

– Den vill vi hemskt gärna ha.

Men handlar det inte om att hitta pengar till bägge projekten?

– Pengar behöver vi inte prata om. Här handlar det om hur pendlare effektivt och bra ska kunna ta sig mellan Malmö och Köpenhamn och det är inte via Helsingborg, säger Ilmar Reepalu.

Seriously? A 30 km underwater tunnel? "– Pengar behöver vi inte prata om. "?

Sounds like someones wet fantasy to me, with no ties to reality. Honestly, commuting between Malmø and Copenhagen on a daily basis is unsustainable and artificial. Shows how weird the world gets when two countries with open borders and different financial climate borders up with eachother.:nuts:

http://www.berlingske.dk/danmark/ny-tunnel-under-oeresund-kan-finansiere-sig-selv

A new tunnel between Helsingør and helsingborg has been proposed.
The tunnel with a pricetag on 32 billion dkk, can make a profit of approximately 21 billion dkk. in 30 years.

There are two separate tunnels in the proposal
A combined highway and freight line, between Snekkersten and Ramlösa.
And a dedicated pasenger rail line between Helsingør and Helsingborg.

The profit can be used to build a new ring road, and a rail line, around Copenhagen.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af166/ThomasLarsen/cd8ea203e7c32b6fcc002add54c237e7.jpg

While the metro line between Malmö/CPH downtowns is certainly sort of a "fantasy" project that may never be realized...

Honestly, commuting between Malmø and Copenhagen on a daily basis is unsustainable and artificial.
Wait, what?

^^

A metro line between CPH and Malmö sounds übercool, but personally I reacted to the price guestimate of 9 bn SEK. That sounds unrealistically low considering the length, plus the fact that you have to base the excavation (at least partially) in very dense urban environments. The station facilities themselves will be quite costly as well I would think.

But if CPH and Malmö gets a shared metro, then I'll happily sign a petition addressed for Eurostat for recognizing CPH+Malmö as one metro area

Yeah, there are many aspects of this project that border on "visionary" at best.

I was just reacting to Ice Cheese's statement of commuting between Malmö and Copenhagen as "unsustainable" (!). Tell that to the 30.000+ people who do it daily. Malmö may be the largest single source of commuters to Copenhagen, and the numbers are on a steady rise. The Ö-Bridge will be at capacity within 10-15 years-- that's why another link (other than the HH-tunnel) is being discussed already.

Tell that to the 30.000+ people who do it daily.


You have a source on that?

^^
This article (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/ekonomi/article311487/Pendlare-far-deklarera-dubbelt.html) from 2008 states that 26.000 people commuted from Malmö to Copenhagen to work "last year" (ie. 2007) while 19.000 did it on a daily basis. Furthermore it states that according to "a conservative" prognosis the number of daily commuters in two years (2010) will be 25.000, and if the rate at which it has increased over the last years (2006~2008) the number will be 30.000 in 2010. These figures do not include commuting students of which there are plenty.

Hope that helps.

In any case, the commuter flow is booming, and the situation for the commuters is terrible as the Ö-trains share tracks not only with intercity trains/high speed trains, but with freight trains as well. This means constant delays, canceled departures, and so on. The City Tunnel in Malmö (due to open in December) will certainly help the situation as it will increase the frequency to one train every 10 minutes between the city centres. Furthermore, Copenhagen (and Denmark as a whole) has an aging population while Malmö is the youngest city in Sweden with very high fertility rates-- this ensures that an even larger portion of Copenhagen's workers will originate in Malmö in the future. This is epitome of cross-strait integration.
But the bridge will be at capacity in something like 10-15 years, and the situation will certainly be worse once the Fehmarn Belt Bridge opens and freight rail transport will increase further and put yet more pressure on the Ö-Bridge. A second link will be needed. It's simply a question of what kind of link it would be-- I'm not sure a metro line is the best option.

^^
This article (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/ekonomi/article311487/Pendlare-far-deklarera-dubbelt.html) from 2008 states that 26.000 people commuted from Malmö to Copenhagen to work "last year" (ie. 2007) while 19.000 did it on a daily basis. Furthermore it states that according to "a conservative" prognosis the number of daily commuters in two years (2010) will be 25.000, and if the rate at which it has increased over the last years (2006~2008) the number will be 30.000 in 2010. These figures do not include commuting students of which there are plenty.

Hope that helps.



To me it looks like the total number of commuters. The figures doesn't say anything about the numbers from Malmø, which are most likely to use the metro.

^^
Every commuter from the region (regardless if they originate in Malmö City or in some far out suburb) have to use the bridge (which means they have to change mode of transportation at, or at the very least pass Malmö Central Station on the way) to cross Öresund. A "metro line" (or whatever it turns out to be) offering a 10 minute connection straight from Malmö C to downtown CPH would be used by every cross-strait commuter if built, and the Ö-bridge would solely serve inter city-, high speed- and freight trains.

^^
Every commuter from the region (regardless if they originate in Malmö City or in some far out suburb) have to use the bridge (which means they have to change mode of transportation at, or at the very least pass Malmö Central Station on the way) to cross Öresund. A "metro line" (or whatever it turns out to be) offering a 10 minute connection straight from Malmö C to downtown CPH would be used by every cross-strait commuter if built, and the Ö-bridge would solely serve inter city-, high speed- and freight trains.

Don't you think a big share of these commuters use car or train because they just don't commute from citycentre to citycentre. As I understand many of these commuters are actually Danes living in Sweden. Many of those probably still have their old jobs that could be spread out in many places in the Copenhagen metro area. Maybe they need to bring their car because of the work they have. I just find it unrealistic that a metro would overtake up to 100% of the commuters.

^^
I meant 100% of the rail commuters, as those have to pass by or change at Malmö C today anyway (which is where the proposed line would originate if we are to believe the plans).

^^
I meant 100% of the rail commuters, as those have to pass by or change at Malmö C today anyway (which is where the proposed line would originate if we are to believe the plans).

ok

@staff Do you have a source on the 10 minutes connection between CPH and Malmö? I've only heard 20 and 30 minutes - not much different from today (when there is no delays of course!)

That would practically turn Malmö into Copenhagen M?

^^
I can't seem to find any link regarding the 10 minute connection (I know I've read it though), but in any case it will be much faster than today. Malmö C -> Kbh H is still something like 45 minutes seeing as it is not a straight route and the trains stop at some five stations on the way.

35 minutes today..

Honestly, commuting between Malmø and Copenhagen on a daily basis is unsustainable and artificial. Shows how weird the world gets when two countries with open borders and different financial climate borders up with eachother.:nuts:

...+ crazy tax deduction schemes for tansportation which render commuting over long distances economically attractive wheather or not it is cross-boundry. Right now people save more on taxes that the Commuter's Card for the train cost. Indeed an unsustainable situation ( if you mean environmetally) - all commuting is! But considering the huge metropolitan areas both Norwaty and Sweden tend to define - which at least technically are supposed to reflect commuting patterns among other things - I see no reason why Malmö can't be part of Copenhagen's metropolitan area.

The first NSB Flirt train was finished this Wednesday!:banana:

As previously announced in this thread, the Norwegian rail service has ordered 50 flirt trains from Stadler. Now the first one is done, and will be showed at the InnoTrans expo in Berlin September 21st - 27th.

There will be 24 of the trains with a regional spec (regionstog), and 26 for the commuter spec (lokaltog).

The first one is of the regional spec, and will after testing be used on the Skien-Lillehammer stretch. As you see, they've done everything to NSB standard with the right colors, signage, even the same seat fabric. And I've got lots of pics of it!(click for high-res):

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Toget20ruller20inn20av20porten.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Toget%20ruller%20inn%20av%20porten.JPG)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/FRSTE1.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Toget%20ruller%20inn%20av%20porten.JPG)

The front. I kind of like it:D
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Front_NSB20tog.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Front_NSB%20tog.JPG)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Front20fra20siden.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Front%20fra%20siden.JPG)

Sitting group in comfort area
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Sittegruppe20NSB20Komfort.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Sittegruppe%20NSB%20Komfort.JPG)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Plass20for20rullestol.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Plass%20for%20rullestol.JPG)

The train will have infoscreens for traffic data etc.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Informasjonsskjermer20kan20brukes20blant20annet20til20avviksinformasjon.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Informasjonsskjermer%20kan%20brukes%20blant%20annet%20til%20avviksinformasjon.JPG)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Ekstra20stort20toalett.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Ekstra%20stort%20toalett.JPG)

Probably a good place to work!
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/LOKOMO1.jpg (http://www.nsb.no/getfile.php/www.nsb.no/nsb.no/Bilder/Togtyper/Lokomotivf%C3%B8rerens%20arbeidsplass.JPG)

Looks like a cross between a FLIRT and a Desiro ML. In other words, a total beauty.

15329560

Citytunneln in Malmö was opened to "public test runs" today (it will be in regular operation from December 12th). Pics by Nixon:


Malmö C

Först ut Centralen...
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5235693980_9c5a275a23_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235693980/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5235128135_9d64ae7156_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235128135/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5235702110_92a699d016_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235702110/)





Uppgång mot Bagers plats.....
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5281/5235725938_60f546282a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235725938/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5235710048_dd9c5a343d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235710048/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/5235697410_d800051227_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235697410/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5049/5235706918_2720f2d4f8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235706918/)





..den nybyggda "glashuset" ovan jord....
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5235716462_8ec13cde1a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235716462/)




Triangeln


Triangeln är helt klart min favorit av dom tre stationerna.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/5235369183_66065e091e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235369183/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5235375159_491a84d469_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235375159/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5008/5235380669_5fcb023eb0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235380669/)




http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5235977686_bddfc23732_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235977686/)




http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5235982248_d727fddee7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235982248/)




http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5235397999_77711d3fca_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235397999/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5235996726_c5bc3ce355_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235996726/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/5235410301_f4f8890d18_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235410301/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5125/5236007290_691d9ec1ca_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236007290/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5236013258_8d74672ed7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236013258/)







http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5235429291_bf2ffd03f4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235429291/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5236026058_e0f62bea5d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236026058/)





http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5088/5236032360_1f8da2ef3e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236032360/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5236038216_a2d458752d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236038216/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5049/5236042762_0cfee47072_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236042762/)






http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5235464835_f07ddc047f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235464835/)




http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5235364067_5c11597678_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5235364067/)




...och en fin liten säng för trötta resenärer från Hotell Hilton, som nu kan skryta med en "egen " citytunnel station...
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5236050042_ced846427b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixon-nydala/5236050042/)

That's awsome! Two stations?

May i answer? There are three of them - New Centralen, Triangeln (with two entrances) and Hyllie. :)

Nice and stylish but still quite cold and brutal... Lots of metal and bare concrete may lead to love/hate feelings.

Nice and stylish but still quite cold and brutal... Lots of metal and bare concrete may lead to love/hate feelings.
Looks like the Copenhagen metro stations.

Looks amazing to me. Excellent photos as well.

^^
The sexiest train related pictures I've seen. Fantastic! :cheers:

The stations look a bit like the green line section of the North Station T stop. Actually, they look even better.

A fast rail service between Helsinki and Saint Petersburg was opened this Sunday.

http://media.macon.com/smedia/2010/12/12/13/412-126Russia_Finland_High_Speed_Train.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.71.jpg

- Travel time from Helsinki to Saint Petersburg is now 3.5 hours.



At 84€ per one-way-ticket (63€ from Lahti, 54€ from Kouvola) it's an expensive travel option and it's not yet visa-free so you'll have to spend additional 50 euros to get the visa. Ferry cruise with a group of 4 people is still the cheapest and most hassle free option. A two-way-ticket in the lowest class 4 room cabin costs 250€ and no visa is required. That's only 63€ per head compared to 188€ per head with a train from Helsinki with a group discount.

I don't understand how/why visa is avoided with the cruise?

Doh, there's a catch for that visa-free cruise. One has to participate on tours organized by the travel company. You're no allowed to go ashore on your own or return to the ship on your own.

(Prices seem range from 25€ / 3.5 hour guided tour to 65€ / 8 hour guided tour.)

So ok, let's recap.
ferry ticket + a view from the deck costs 63€
ferry ticket + guided tour costs anywhere from 88€ to 128€
ferry ticket + visa costs 115€
train ticket + visa costs 188€

..or you could say fuck with this shit and book a plane to Berlin instead.

Doh, there's a catch for that visa-free cruise. One has to participate on tours organized by the travel company. You're no allowed to go ashore on your own or return to the ship on your own.


I actually don't know how does this work in practice. I know people book a hotel and take a night there and it seems they don't use any guided tours.


..or you could say fuck with this shit and book a plane to Berlin instead.

Plane ticket cost about 70e to St. Petersburg (+visa), it is cheaper than train.
And money isn't everything. For example, when high speed Moscow-St.Petersburg route has been launched, there were also discussions that it is too expensive, since plane cost cheaper, but in fact this train route became quite popular and it is usually fully booked.

I think that 84 EUR is a good price for a train ticket from Helsinki to St.Petersburg.

Small city of Karlstad seems to have a decent public transport system with realtime info on the buses:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/DSC_09062.jpg

Map:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/DSC_09072.jpg

Bus stop Drottninggaten:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/DSC_09083.jpg

^^ Aalborg has a system similar to that one.

Love the bus-line map, cute.

^^
Speaking of your whereabouts, have there been any updates on Länsimetro and the tenders for the M300 rolling stock?

Im Westen nichts Neues.

^^
Speaking of your whereabouts, have there been any updates on Länsimetro and the tenders for the M300 rolling stock?

Well at least one news that surfaced today about Länsimetro is that there's now concerns of the Ruoholahti-Matinkylä part getting ready in time for 2015.
One major reasons being other 590 million euros ring rail project for capital area that also connects Helsinki-Vantaa airport to existing track system that goes below ground for the last 8km to the airport and should be finished in 2014.
http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/grafiikka/iso_webkuva/horizontal/1135264918606.jpeg

This according to the HS paper article for one eats the workforce and most of all increases the cost and they are now thinking if they cut the amount of excavation going on simultaneously. Though to me it sounds like the 710 million budget will be broken anyways.
I remember skeptics talking last year and before that the real cost for the metro line would be above 1 billion euros in the end.

HS web article about it.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/artikkeli/1135264918540&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgyL5Om-kQ-IiHgs_1CIa5z1helDQ

VR is planning on ordering new double-decker coaches built by Transtech. They're planning on introducing push-pull services to the intercity trains. My guess is that they will probably be delivered at roughly the same time as the new locomotives.

These coaches look similar to Bombardier's new Twindexx coaches.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/typo3temp/pics/3738e32b76.jpg
http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/vr-orders-more-double-deckers.html

Not terribly exiting design, hopefully they'll tweak it further before mass production begins.


http://www.transtech.fi/image.php?blob_id=614

http://www.transtech.fi/image.php?blob_id=620

http://www.transtech.fi/image.php?blob_id=618

^^ Looks really nice, and those seats that look like couches, I'd say, when this will be built, it will probably be very comfortable train :)

Centrumslingans miljökonsekvensbeskrivning har färdigställts

Centrumslingan är en järnväg som är planerad under Helsingfors innerstad och på vilken tågen går genom en i berget sprängd tunnel från Böle via Tölö till centrum och vidare via Hagnäs till Böle. Stadsbanetrafiken till och från Esbo och Kervo och på Ringbanan skulle flytta över till Centrumslingan. Slingan ökar märkbart tågtrafikens kapacitet och funktionssäkerhet.

Vid konsekvensbedömningen har man studerat tre olika alternativ för tunnelbanan. I alternativ 1 skulle tunnelmynningarna ligga vid Djurgårdsplanen och Borgbacken och nya underjordiska stationer skulle byggas i Tölö, centrum och Hagnäs.

I alternativ 2 och 3 skulle tunnelöppningarna finnas vid Djurgårdsplanen och norr om Skogsbackavägen. I alternativ 2 skulle det byggas nya underjordiska stationer i Tölö, centrum, Hagnäs och Böle. I alternativ 3 skulle ytterligare en station byggas i Alphyddan.

Det har inte fattats några egentliga beslut om byggandet av Centrumslingan. Om det fattas beslut om att projektet ska genomföras genast efter att utredningsplaneringen och miljökonsekvensbedömningen har slutförts och finansiering kan ordnas, så kan banan vara i användning om cirka tio år.


MKB: https://rhk-fi.directo.fi/@Bin/4208376/Pisara_YVA-selostus_15_03_2011_sve_nettiin.pdf





The material is sadly not available in English but it's an environmental impact assessment of an underground regional rail line in Helsinki. The idea is to increase the accessibility of the city center for regional commuters and increase the capacity of the central railway station for long distance commuters. For those of you who might understand Finnish better than Swedish, here's a Finnish language version.

YVA: https://rhk-fi.directo.fi/@Bin/4208373/Pisara_YVA-selostus_15_03_2011_nettiin.pdf

Those trains don't look anything spectacular from outside, but really liking the insides of it.

Btw here's pic of the line talked above.
https://rhk-fi.directo.fi/@Bin/3690178/Pisara_kartta_100310.jpeg

^^
So, it's basically Helsinki's version of the RER?

I posted wrong links to the PDF files. Now the links are correct. :gaah:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l592/T-M-H/Pisara_YVA-selostus_15_03_2011_sve_nettiin-39.png

I found this fun graph. It shows how many people move through downtown Oslo with different means of transport during 1 hour of morning rush. Numbers differ between people travelling above and under ground:)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Sentrumtrans.jpg

left to right: tram - bus - car - metro - train

I found this fun graph. It shows how many people move through downtown Oslo with different means of transport during 1 hour of morning rush. Numbers differ between people travelling above and under ground:)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Sentrumtrans.jpg

left to right: tram - bus - car - metro - train

Isn't it 2030? Anyway, it shows that a lot of the traffic happends underground. Cool graph!

Yeah, whatever.

If I was in it to read, I'd join a bookclub instead

Tog under bakken? I don't get it.

Are you joking?

Tog under bakken? I don't get it.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslotunnelen

http://www.caf.es/img/productos/urbos3/5urbos3_g.jpg

Tallinn getting new trams by 2014??
Apparently, according to this (http://www.tallinnapostimees.ee/?id=429927) article Estonia has sold 45 mil euro worth of co2 quotas to Spain. And the money will be spent to buy new trams, from spain?

Wait, who are paying for what, you say? Spain buys air, in return you keep some hundred Spanians employed? And I guess the EU are funding it all?!

But nice! Trams are getting so good lately. Silent, comfy and with great space, it's just as comfortable as trains now!

This is probably big enough to mention in this thread:

Copenhagen's Lord Mayor has proposed three new metro lines with a timeframe of 30-50 years (hopefully faster) due to the growth of the city:

http://www.b.dk/upload/webred/bmsandbox/uploads/2011/05/0a7dbbd415c4cadfa784306489c13a30.png

A little error in the graphics by Berlingske. The City Circle Line, which is already under construction, consists of both lines M3+M4.

Especially the M4 line (which really is M5) and M6 line look pretty interesting.

Construction costs are estimated to about 60bn kr. but if history repeats that number is probably closer to 80-100bn kr. M3+M4 original estimate rose by 45% when the contractors were announced. Regardless the price, it will probably be a very good investment.

The public transport in ALL of Copenhagen will increase by 40% with the proposed lines.

http://www.caf.es/img/productos/urbos3/5urbos3_g.jpg

Tallinn getting new trams by 2014??
Apparently, according to this (http://www.tallinnapostimees.ee/?id=429927) article Estonia has sold 45 mil euro worth of co2 quotas to Spain. And the money will be spent to buy new trams, from spain?

Cool! I remember when I visited Tallinn that the trams were old, but very cute. I liked that! I guess new trams wont hurt though :)

Sweden wont build rails for higher speeds than 250km/h (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4134210.ece). Norway is working on a report for 330km/h HSR, but with 250 in Sweden the trains will lose in competition with plains. IMO this is really bad for an effective future infrastructure in Scandinavia. Not good at all..:ohno:

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01489/_SCC-AIPub_F-Br_dt_1489818a.jpg

I am not sure about these lines, however there are plans for high speed (above 330km/h) lines in domestic market. Lines connecting Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö via Västerås, Jönköping, etc. are of the highest priority.

I am not sure about these lines, however there are plans for high speed (above 330km/h) lines in domestic market. Lines connecting Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö via Västerås, Jönköping, etc. are of the highest priority.

I think that is a strange priority. Why shouldn't Gothenburg and the westcoast (including traffic from Norway) have the same speed to Copenhagen and the continent as Jönköping and so on? What are the traffic numbers they base this upon?

Maybe later the lines shall be expanded to join the international ones. I am not sure, though.

Maybe later the lines shall be expanded to join the international ones. I am not sure, though.

Well, that must be mucher later then. Gunnar Malm that leaded the Swedish study and now is a part of the panel in Norway says we can forget more than 250km/h for these lines on the Swedish side of the border. I understand that it probably is very expensive, but I think at least Gothenburg - Malmø/Copenhagen should be 330km/h. Too bad.

Sweden wont build rails for higher speeds than 250km/h (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4134210.ece).
As always, there is a lot of stupid comments.

But like some says, why would they pay the whole price for HSR north of Gothenburg?

Västerås? No the Göteborg - Stockholm highspeed-rail is planned via Jönköping where a branch will lead south to Malmö.

Well, the Oslo-Cph line won't pass through Sthlm so it's obviously low priority. HSR between four of Scandinavias eight largest cities, connecting 4.7M people? Nah, unimportant since no Stockholmer lives there. :bash:

Perhaps if you Norwegians payed for the whole thing? ;)

Well, that must be mucher later then. Gunnar Malm that leaded the Swedish study and now is a part of the panel in Norway says we can forget more than 250km/h for these lines on the Swedish side of the border. I understand that it probably is very expensive, but I think at least Gothenburg - Malmø/Copenhagen should be 330km/h. Too bad.

The question is not the price, since there are other high speed lines planed, like i mentioned before. The thing is that not only Sweden is interested in the project and there is a lack of cooperation.

I guess both nations (eventually) will start up with one or two most profitable line and then decide wether it's a good idea to build further lines after seeing it in operation. In Swedens case this would be Stockholm - Göteborg/Malmö and in Norways case Oslo - Trondheim/Stavanger.

I guess both nations (eventually) will start up with one or two most profitable line and then decide wether it's a good idea to build further lines after seeing it in operation. In Swedens case this would be Stockholm - Göteborg/Malmö and in Norways case Oslo - Trondheim/Stavanger.

Good point! Let's just wait and see how the things will go in the near future. :)

I guess both nations (eventually) will start up with one or two most profitable line and then decide wether it's a good idea to build further lines after seeing it in operation. In Swedens case this would be Stockholm - Göteborg/Malmö and in Norways case Oslo - Trondheim/Stavanger.

For Norway it will be Haukelibanen, meaning Oslo - Bergen/Haugesund/Stavanger. The people that hopes for Trondheim will be very disapointed.

Bergen, Haugesund and Stavanger would use the same trasè for most of the trip, so Haukelibanen would definitely be the best choice.

It's not. It's simpler and more populated following the coast to Stavanger.

Bergen, Haugesund and Stavanger would use the same trasè for most of the trip, so Haukelibanen would definitely be the best choice.

Yes it is. I wont say too much, but I have friends working with "Samferdsel" at Stortinget, and I know people that also are friends with Westermann at Norsk Bane. From what they have told me, a coastline has never been a realistic alternative. We will most probably see a Haukelibane first, and then later on Trondheim.

^^So you don't think the politicians and their "waving home" will decide? Weird, since it decides all other transportation investments.

Trondheim and Gothenburg was the only profitable lines. End of story. The high costs of a line over Haukeli simply doesn't justify building it before we know more about the effects.

Trondheim and Gothenburg was the only profitable lines. End of story.

You are wrong, it is not the end of story. :cheers:

http://www.gp.se/nyheter/varlden/1.639846-norsk-svensk-rora-om-snabbtag

Apparently the Swedish government hasn't made a decision on this project yet. The ministers of infrastructure of both countries are to meet and discuss this issue mid-June.
Norsk-svensk röra om snabbtåg

Norge vill ha höghastighetståg till Europa, men uppger att Sverige sätter stopp för planerna.

Men enligt svenska näringsdepartementet har inget beslut fattats om att nya spår ska byggas mellan länderna.

Norska politiker vill att sträckan Oslo-Göteborg i en första etapp byggs om för att klara höghastighetståg. Tanken är att linjen senare ska utsträckas till Köpenhamn.

Men i Sverige finns inget intresse för att bygga om varken linjen Oslo-Göteborg eller linjen Oslo-Stockholm efter de norska önskemålen, enligt besked som den norske tågutredaren Tom Stillesby fått från svenska näringsdepartementet.

Till Aftenposten säger Stillesby att svenskarna inte vill bygga om spåren för att klara toppfarten på 330 kilometer i timmen utan begränsa farten till 250 kilometer i timmen.

Men näringsdepartementet meddelar att något sådant beslut inte har fattats.
-Det stämmer inte att den svenska regeringen har tagit ställning till detta. Frågan bereds internt, säger Mychèle Östman, pressekreterare åt infrastrukturminister Catharina Elmsäter-Svärd.

Frågan om höghastighetståg kommer att diskuteras i mitten av juni då Elmsäter-Svärd ska träffa sin norska ministerkollega. Varifrån Stillesby fått sin information vet inte Östman. TT har sökt honom för en kommentar.

It seems they are playing a little game now. Will be interesting to follow. :yes:

^^No it won't. Political games are so boring. A play for the press:ohno:

I don't get why Jbv/Høghastighetsutredninga made this non-news at all. Probably to get attention to their case:ohno:

You are wrong, it is not the end of story. :cheers:

In the discussion which line in Norway is most profitable it is.

New double-decker buses 'VDL Syndergy' have been launched in the Stockholm Östra - Norrtälje line:

(c) DN.se
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6664/dubbeld.jpg

All the vehicles are run entirely on biofuel and have 84 seats each. The buses are customised for the customer in conformance with Swedish public transport requirements, and include such features as wheelchair space and a wheelchair ramp. Both the lower and upper deck are 185 cm high. The vehicles also include video surveillance, an alcohol lock for the driver, route indication screens and a ticket system. Also, there is a free wireless net available on board.
The company 'SL' hopes that new comfortable buses will be a good and intelligent choice for pasengers who live in a more distant suburbs which have no metro or suburban railway service and commute to the center of the metro area every day. Also, the buses may be a good sollution to reduce the car traffic to the city as the new buses will run every 7 minutes in peak hours.

www.vdlbuscoach.com, www.dn.se

Video showing the whole new rail stretch from Drammen to Lysaker, west of Oslo. One can now keep 160 km/h at practicly the whole stretch, which is about 35 km long.

http://www.budstikka.no/nyheter/na-gar-det-i-160-km-t-mellom-sandvika-og-lysaker-1.6451013

^^ From the comments:
Skal hilse fra William (6). Han synes togfilmen er skikkelig tøff. Han har sett den 5 ganger foreløpig.

..men han er litt deppa over at gods og flytog ikke lenger "går i dagen" forbi skolegården på Blommenholm Skole. Storefri mister en dimensjon. Men vi kan jo håpe på feil på signalanlegget eller en sporveksler i ny og ne? Han takler uansett det meste, bortsett fra "buss for tog".
:lol:

Video showing the whole new rail stretch from Drammen to Lysaker, west of Oslo. One can now keep 160 km/h at practicly the whole stretch, which is about 35 km long.

http://www.budstikka.no/nyheter/na-gar-det-i-160-km-t-mellom-sandvika-og-lysaker-1.6451013

Not quite. Between Drammen and Asker, max speed is 130km/h, and the train has to slow down considerably as it approaches Sandvika due to a short 80km/h stretch over Sandvikselva.

You are wrong, it is not the end of story. :cheers:

I don't think we've seen the beginning of the story yet. The sad fact is that Scandinavia is less than ideal for high-speed rail. Small populations, large distances (Denmark excepted, which partially has the opposite problem), difficult terrain.

The line that probably would make most transport sense, Oslo-Gothenburg-Malmö-Copenhagen, is the one that makes least political sense in either of the three countries (assuming the EU won't get involved or some such). Oslo-West Coast and Oslo-Trondheim are teetering on the edge of profitability in the planning stage and almost certainly will go deep into the red when the cost overruns come in. Stockholm-West Coast already has half-fast connections, will the additional passengers make it profitable to have real high-speed connections to Stockholm?

Oslo-Stockholm gets poorer by the year and is even less likely. Maybe Oslo-Lillestrøm-Kongsberg-Karlstad? The Swedish city is almost a suburb of Oslo already...

An old thread on high-speed rail in Norway elsewhere: http://newth.net/eirik/2009/05/19/hoyhastighetstog/

I don't think we've seen the beginning of the story yet. The sad fact is that Scandinavia is less than ideal for high-speed rail. Small populations, large distances (Denmark excepted, which partially has the opposite problem), difficult terrain.

The line that probably would make most transport sense, Oslo-Gothenburg-Malmö-Copenhagen, is the one that makes least political sense in either of the three countries (assuming the EU won't get involved or some such). Oslo-West Coast and Oslo-Trondheim are teetering on the edge of profitability in the planning stage and almost certainly will go deep into the red when the cost overruns come in. Stockholm-West Coast already has half-fast connections, will the additional passengers make it profitable to have real high-speed connections to Stockholm?

Oslo-Stockholm gets poorer by the year and is even less likely. Maybe Oslo-Lillestrøm-Kongsberg-Karlstad? The Swedish city is almost a suburb of Oslo already...

An old thread on high-speed rail in Norway elsewhere: http://newth.net/eirik/2009/05/19/hoyhastighetstog/

Norway is almost perfect for HSR. Some of the domestic flights are among the most trafficated domestic routes in Europe. The perfect distance between these cities in Norway makes HSR more effective than air traffic, and cars and busses are not a good alternative in Norway.

Trondheim-Oslo-Copenhagen is not exactly Berlin-Munich-Rome (roughly the same distance). Leaving environmental concerns aside for the moment, the roads from Oslo to Trondheim (or Bergen) do not have a lot of traffic outside the commute distance of the respective cities. Travelling long-distance on Norwegian roads is a pretty lonely experience (which is cool, mind you).

I suspect that air transport is the cheaper and more environmentally friendly alternative (considering all costs), unfortunately. Extending the Flytoget line a small part of the way (e.g. Hamar or Hønefoss) might be a possibility, if technically feasible, but probably not so cost-effective either.

Train travel between Russia and Finland grew considerably since the start of high-speed Allegro services exactly one year ago on 12 December 2010.


The entire year's passenger volume is expected to be more than 300 000 whereas it was predicted previously that 250 000 passengers will travel on Allegro services this year. In 2010 around 200 000 train trips were made between Helsinki and St. Petersburg.

The growth in the number of passengers on the Allegro is expected to continue. The aim is 500 000 trips per year by 2015 says VR's Director, Long-distance Services Ari Vanhanen.

http://www.transportweekly.com/pages/en/news/articles/88078/

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/11-07-31-helsinki-by-RalfR-054.jpg/900px-11-07-31-helsinki-by-RalfR-054.jpg

http://www.thelocal.no/application/libraries/img.class/view.php?image=../../../userdata/images/article/2e05400ab1ad77c0d42c5ac912cf9e7d96ba1a9f3ea56ee7da3d2c75ba229630.jpg&size=468x650&mode=resize
Photo: Peder Gjersøe/Scanpix

Norway Postpones Train Testing After Derailment

Norway's state railroads says it has suspended testing of a new Swiss-made train after five people were injured when it derailed and slammed into a mountainside during a test run.

Norwegian State Railways spokesman Haakon Myhre says five people — three Norwegians, one Swiss and one Finn — were on the board when it went off the tracks some 60 miles (100 kilometers) southwest of Oslo.

Myhre said officials have decided to postpone testing the FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train) until the cause of Wednesday's accident has been established.

In 2009, NSB railways bought 50 train sets from Switzerland's Stadler Rail AG. The first 10 sets were delivered in 2011, and the trains were scheduled to start rolling out later this month.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/norway-postpones-train-testing-derailment-15627816#.TzvjEdW26uK

^^ such a great start for the new trains! :nuts:

I think I saw that very train leaving Drammen station earlier today.