Proposed new Channelside parking deck.
(Click on the link at the bottom for a rendering....godawful.)

Port authority contracts Manhattan Construction for garage

The Tampa Port Authority approved at a meeting Tuesday a $13.3 million contract with Manhattan Construction Co., for designing and building an expansion of the parking garage at Channelside in Tampa.

Manhattan was founded in 1886, has offices in eight U.S. cities, including Tampa, and is a subsidiary of Naples-based Rooney Holdings Inc.

Manhattan’s initial proposal for the project was $14.3 million, but the company agreed to lower the price after some design tweaks were agreed upon with port officials. In the final design, the upper decks of the structure 10 feet to the north and south will cantilever, thus eliminating one elevated deck.

Expanding the garage will help with the expected expansion of the port once the economy recovers. “We’ll have a serious shortfall in parking without this project,” said Port Director Richard Wainio.

Also during the meeting, the commissioners approved the final ranking of companies bidding to build an expanded container facility to accommodate expected growth in the port’s container business after the recovery. Batson-Cook Co. was ranked first.

The port staff will now engage in contract negotiations for a continuing contract for development. The port intends to expand the services in phases, timed with the growth in container business and market expansion. Each phase will be priced as the project continues.

The commissioners also approved purchasing its insurance coverage through Brown & Brown Inc. (NYSE: BRO). The premium for the coming year was reduced to $2,009,497 from $2,056,436 and includes two, one-year options for renewals. Total insured value for the port and its assets is $177.6 million.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2009/01/19/daily24.html

Re: Channelside parking garage expansion.
What is DESPERATELY needed is a pedestrian bridge connector to the Channelside shopping center across the street. I see my life flash before my eyes every time I navigate that crosswalk across Channelside Drive.

Re: Channelside parking garage expansion.
What is DESPERATELY needed is a pedestrian bridge connector to the Channelside shopping center across the street. I see my life flash before my eyes every time I navigate that crosswalk across Channelside Drive.
Agreed

Wow, it sucks that they're taking out that green space in between T@C and Channelside. Especially just to put up another garage. Way to suck up the streetscape even more in that area.

I have never seen an attractive, standalone garage so I'm not surprised it looks bad from the rendering. It almost looks as though it will look somewhat better along Channelside where there appears to be glass panneling however.

http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/219672-600-0-3.jpg

Does anyone know if there will be any retail on the ground floor facing Channelside Drive? Can't tell from the rendering. Sure hope so, but don't know if the Port Authority wants to go there. Maybe they just want raw parking space.

How can you make downtown and channelside more pedestrian friendly when you keep catering to the car culture like this?

There's plenty of parking all over downtown, what is lacking is a strong link between that parking and the tourism destinations downtown. A tourist-slow-riding trolley on an incomplete line is one of the main culprits. talk but no action on improving things for pedestrians is another.

This looks like yet another godawful Alfonso Architects design. Bleh.

There's plenty of parking all over downtown, what is lacking is a strong link between that parking and the tourism destinations downtown. A tourist-slow-riding trolley on an incomplete line is one of the main culprits. talk but no action on improving things for pedestrians is another.

They are going to be losing the parking lot across the street from this new garage. This is the replacement. With all the special events around there parking can be an issue even without losing that lot.

You guys are making the mistake of thinking that the Port Authority would want to make this a pedestrian-friendly destination, when in fact, they just want to make $$$.

You guys are making the mistake of thinking that the Port Authority would want to make this a pedestrian-friendly destination, when in fact, they just want to make $$$.

That point has been agreed with and discussed here in the past. What the port needs to realize is that it is in their best interest, as in they would make more money in the long run, if they looked more out for Channelside as a community.

BTW, I did write the mayor on this subject and plan to write the city council. I'm not sure if she or they would have any authority here, but a letter really couldn't harm.

They need to do something about those pedestrian crossings. Maybe rumble strip the entire length of the block to get people to slow down. Maybe more caution lights or just a specific stop light that activates when people get within 3' of the crosswalk.

BTW, I did write the mayor on this subject and plan to write the city council. I'm not sure if she or they would have any authority here, but a letter really couldn't harm.
I'm going to be doing the same thing pretty soon.

Thats absolutely awful looking and can't belive the city already hasn't taken the proposal, threw it to the ground, and stomped on it repeatidly. I find nothing attractive from the render and think that putting Channelside Dr. in what looks like a Canyon is not the way it should go. Just look at that render, do you want be driving through that area with the Channelside Plaza on one side and some ugly looking parking deck on the other side?

I wasn't under the impression that the TCC or mayor could overrule the Port Authority on PA land.

But in any case, I'm with you guys, this garage will be regretted by everyone who isn't with the PA the moment it is built. I was much more in favor of adding 2-3 floors to the existing garage, or building a mixed-use garage (with ground floor office or retail) facility over near Terminal 3, on the north end of the Aquarium lot (leaving room for if the Aquarium ever actually expands)...


btw, no it doesn't have retail on the ground floor. It's all parking. If the garage had the parking above some retail spaces, that would have helped to at least add something to the streetscape, besides more dead space... I don't understand how either this garage or the other PA garage were/will be built with no other use of any kind either below or above the garage. Did anyone even bother consulting an urban planner, or bother walking around down there before cooking up this idiotic scheme?

Did anyone even bother consulting an urban planner, or bother walking around down there before cooking up this idiotic scheme?
It appears that the PA still thinks that they can make this a viable container port (which I disagree with... but that's another issue), so they are likely unconcerned with the practicality of this area as an urban destination.

I keep forgetting that I know someone on the PA board. I think I'll give him a call tonight and give him a piece of my mind.

^Can I have his number?

No really, I'm serious. I won't swear at him or anything, I promise.

Haha, he's a personal friend. I will swear at him. I highly doubt it will matter. He's one of the types that wants the port to make money at any cost.

That lot design looks clean and modern, and it will help add some density to that area.

Plus, who hasn't pulled there hair out waiting to leave the Channelside parking garage? Adding to the existing structure will only exacerbate that problem.

I like the look of it, but if there will be no ground floor retail/office, they should at least leave that area open for public movement and improve street level sight lines. Also, I don't know about retrofitting the existing garage with 2-3 additional floors. I'd assume that they only had it engineered for what it is. Structural engineers aren't supposed to over-engineer things assuming future what-ifs. If they were told "x" number of floors, "x" amount of cars, we prefer a precast system, yadda-yadda, then the firm should have designed to that with like a +10% wiggle room. Anything else could be considered professional malpractice and could get them in trouble if they designed way beyond scope.

So to go back now would involve new/reinforced foundation system, new/reinforced beams/columns, etc., generally a huge pain in the ass. Lots of drilling and pining and expensive, hard to use epoxy products.

Like I said if they kept the cars off the ground floor, installed some decent brick pavers, nice benches, perhaps some planters with low light sensitive plants, maybe some bike racks, cool overhead ceiling treatment (lights, canopy, etc.), then it wouldn't be so bad. But yeah as a shown it could have been better.

Site-lines to what. . . the back side of TC's parking garage?

I like it, wish it would've been a park but this is a nice design. I wish there would've been room for retail or something on the bottom floor to atleast attempt to stimulate more pedestrian traffic there, but what can you do with a short sighted group of politicians?

Its all about perspective angle and visual barriers. It would be better to have the space below totally open because it would open up the space to pedestrians as opposed to say a 6' sidewalk and then a halfwall and cars. Open space in which people can mill about, sit down, get out of the rain, check their belongings to make sure they haven't left their kid's bottle at the restaraunt, etc are all in short supply in a built out environment. Therefore taking the opportunity to include one here makes sense.

By keeping the bottom floor open and as a covered plaza, it would make a difficult situation better. Lots of cities have these little areas, that though covered get used quite a bit. But if you are satisfied with grade level parking and don't see a need for improvements, don't let me dissuade you.

I find nothing attractive from this. All I see is one long ass white wall that disconnects the Plaza from everything else. Its not the right location for a parking garage. I don't see how the open space on the bottom will be attractive, it will pretty much become a location for the homeless to sleep and live. It will only provide so amount of parking spaces where there are many other locations for a parking garage that can provide more spaces. I'd rather keep the land the way it is than see this rise on it, and thats saying a lot since the current condition of the land is unbearable.

This essentially kills any frontage that the retail units in TOC had/have. If I were Red Brick Pizza I would be piss** off about this. They already seem to be hurting for business sometimes, this cannot be good for their business.

Steve

This essentially kills any frontage that the retail units in TOC had/have. If I were Red Brick Pizza I would be piss** off about this. They already seem to be hurting for business sometimes, this cannot be good for their business.

Steve
Agreed. Instead of having a view of the Channelside Plaze and the Channel, you get a white slab right in front of you.

^Red Brick isn't to noticeable or accessible from the south side of Channelside Dr. anyway. From what I understand, this garage won't neccesarily cover them up. Actually since this garage is right in front of them, it may actually bring people to their front door step so to speak.

Still the lack of trees and retail is what kills me about this.

Welcome to Tampa, where we have no clue how to plan urban spaces whatsoever.

Not sure what the best place for this is, but Aja lounge in ToC is having their grand opening tonight. It is way late opening, but apparently is really nice. Huge space, 2 stories. I'm sure loaded with douche bags and pricey speciality drinks, but I'd be interested in seeing the interior.

From a trusted friend (and hotel developer/investor), Kimpton Hotels are close to announcing their first Tampa-area hotel within the next month or so. By 2009, they hope to have two, possibly three hotels, under construction or completed in the area. It looks like the first one will be in Channelside (though they're still investigating properties downtown Tampa as well), the next in downtown St. Pete, and the third to be determined (mentioned Ybor, the beaches, North Sarasota, and also, surprisingly, by the Hard Rock Casino, depending on what happens to the casino with new potential gambling laws ... I still find that a stretch though).

If they come, this is great. Kimptons are fantastic boutique hotels, usually designed with a "theme" restaurant as well along with impeccible service and interesting amenities (always free high speed Internet, funky leopard-print robes at many, Goldfish as "temporary pets" during your visit, wine tastings each evening). I should know more in the next 2-3 weeks.
Any updates on this? I was hoping we would heard more by now about this. Don't know if the economic situations have turned them away, but it's looking like it.

^^

I'm not sure if this is up to date, but Tampa is still named in the "future development" section on their website.

http://www.kimptonhotels.com/development/future-development.aspx

^^

I'm not sure if this is up to date, but Tampa is still named in the "future development" section on their website.

http://www.kimptonhotels.com/development/future-development.aspx
Was just checking the site right now and saw that it's still considered "future development". Would email them again, but doubt I'll get much since the last email I sent out I wasn't given much info except for they were looking around Tampa.

Was just checking the site right now and saw that it's still considered "future development". Would email them again, but doubt I'll get much since the last email I sent out I wasn't given much info except for they were looking around Tampa.

My understanding is that they have not been able to secure financing for the project yet, so the project is essentially on hold until they can get it all straightened out.

^^
That'll be a while, given the current market.

Alright here is the letter from the mayor's office I got back in return on the topic of the parking garage. Their response on the garage is rather disappointing, but the interesting (in a good way) part is the last paragraph:

Jordan,
Thank you for your interest in the Channel District and the City of tampa in general. The proposed location and design are products of a variety of factors. Homeland Security is requiring public agencies such as the Port to practice increased vigilance in the transportation of people and goods. The expansion will allow the Port Authority the ability to segregate buses and trucks carrying people and supplies to the cruise ships in a secure area near the cruise ships. The Port Authority hopes that by removing buses and trucks from Channelside Drive, that the pedestrian experience will be enhanced.

The proposed garage expansion has been lowered from the original plan to protect view corridors for the residents of the Towers of Channelside. The lower plan cantilevers over the sidewalk, providing shade and cover for pedestrians. The current proposed design mimics the vertical elements of the Channelside Mall and departs from the color scheme of the original garage to complement adjacent buildings.

The City of Tampa will be providing park space for the residents of the Channel District. We are expecting land to be purchased this year, with park development following immediately afterward.

I also sent an email on the garage to councilman Scott (Channelside is in his district) so we'll see if I get a response from him or his people as well...

View corridors for ToC? Who cares what the nonexistent people not living in those units think? I'm concerned with the abhorrent effect this disastrous looking project will have on the streetscape.


Uggghhhhhh... Clueless fools, the lot of them!

^^
Lord only knows when we'll have better minds in government. :ohno:




Unless that is......we vote out each and everyone of these fools in elected office (fat chance of that happening though).

View corridors for ToC? Who cares what the nonexistent people not living in those units think? I'm concerned with the abhorrent effect this disastrous looking project will have on the streetscape.


Uggghhhhhh... Clueless fools, the lot of them!

It blocks my dad's view from his spot in The Meridian, so I'm sure he'll be pissed. As he should be.

I mean, enough said - this is a disaster. And, as usual, Tampa's development cronies are behind the times, using the tired notion of "security" as the "for the common good" argument du jour to sidestep proper design standards. Now, security may be a valid concern for the Port, but under no circumstances should it be a de facto gag for the city to step up and place very serious pressures on the Authority (since, naturally, the city's design guidelines and laws probably aren't as savvy as they should be).

Under no circumstances would this fly in a city with proper design regulation.

I didn't think of DHS and their requirements, but if they want something, they get it. Remember, they basically closed the waterfront at Channelside, so if they want a car bomb proof edifice, they'll get it.

It blocks my dad's view from his spot in The Meridian, so I'm sure he'll be pissed. As he should be.

he can be pissed of course, that's everyone's right... However, no offense to your dad, but who would buy in a low-rise, quite literally in the middle of the district, and expect a preserved view in perpetuity? The moment anything was built around him, his view was gone.

We all discussed this concept at length couple years back, when people in Victory Lofts were griping that they were going to lose their westward views when other projects were built west of them... As I said then, the only sane way to ensure a view is preserved when you're living in a lowrise building is to own the land between you and the horizon, because the moment anything is built, your view goes bye bye.

Remember I was griping about how the zoning was all backwards in Channelside with it being short in the middle, and tall around the edges? The tallest buildings should have been arranged more like this...


(this is super basic, just for an example. It ignores the silly FAA height reqs)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/785/channelsideheightzoninghh6.jpg
Blue shaded area = building heights of 0-80ft
Red shaded area = building heights of 120-280ft
Green shaded area = building heights of 320ft+


In this basic example, not everyone winds up with a good view at build out, but a much greater number of building occupants do, thereby preserving assessed value. In theory this would result in a net increase in tax revenues compared to what was originally planned, without increasing net density. This is basically an inversion of what was originally planned, which pissed everyone off basically the moment redevelopment began and it started to become a reality.

Oh, I'm with you completely, J. And it should be known that our only connection to the area presently is because he rents there - because it's alarmingly affordable given the amenities in the building. Previously, I worked in Channelside - for about two years. I've got my opinions about how development has played out there, and while I might not agree with you 100% of the time, I would agree that - as it has happened - the location and disbursement of structure density is a huge gripe.

As for view corridors, I think they're very important to maintain to some degree. Yes, development should be denser, but that can - and hopefully will - be accomplished with narrower towers (ala TOC), not walls of condominiums. The realities of how things should play out is a longer conversation...

But for our purposes here, the garage is, well, ugly. If his view were being blocked for sound reasons (there's nothing sound about this project), it'd be an entirely different situation. But NIMBYism has its uses, and this is one of them. It's important that someone with clout - an educated (professor) resident that's well-connected socially, in this case - fuss over it, and I'm willing as both a part-time resident of the neighborhood and a former worker in the area, and as much a decent, global citizen and student of urban design to employ such tactics when they're useful. I think this is one of those moments where neighborhood activism is essential. It's only difficult (and, in Tampa, it does tend to be more difficult - but can we blame locals for distrusting our officials? really?) when NIMBYism manages to pull down the better projects in the area, for lack of proper guidelines and communication on the city's end, or ignorance on the citizen's part.

Bottom line, Tampa lacks a development culture - or one that favors (or, hell, has an awareness of) its citizenry. Start here - NIMBYism isn't the problem, it's often the solution. That energy and care just needs to be better managed.

This project is a plum candidate. Yuck. The Berlin Wall, but with more parking.

Maxim,

Curious here, does your dad rent a PH unit?

Yup. I think you know him.

That's my stepdad, and my craaaaazy mother. And her new children, her pet pups.

And you're apparently a pretty nice guy, too. Thanks for treating them right, if you are who I think you are. =)

^I swear you two had a similar discussion like a year ago.

^I swear you two had a similar discussion like a year ago.

Can't imagine that - my parents haven't lived there for long.

I guess it's possible. I was aware that my parent's landlord posted here, but didn't know who it was.

Maybe it was more recent than a year... in any case... :cheers1:

Yeah, that's me. You posted something awhile back stating your parents were leaving the "burbs" for the city. I kind of put it together when my realtor said my new tenants were from Apollo Beach. They are really nice people and I'm glad they have taken "ownership" of the unit. I've taken a pretty big hit on the condo for some time as I've been going through a horrible divorce for several years which is finally coming to an end.
Anyhow, congrats on your own successes...your mother is very proud of your accomplishments!

awww... :)

Proud of you too Jason! :)

Channelside Apartment Project Gets Little More Time
By TED JACKOVICS | The Tampa Tribune
Published: February 19, 2009

TAMPA - A controversial $54 million Channelside apartment project remains stalled by a lack of financing but gained a little more time today when Tampa Port Authority commissioners approved two consecutive six-month purchase options.

If the project moves forward, if will look much different from the pair of 30-story condominium towers planned in 2003 when the Clearwater-based Byrd Corp. won rights to developing the 3 1/2 acre site.
The property is on Garrison Channel between Channelside and the St. Pete Times Forum.

Instead, the project would become a five-story apartment complex with 250 residences, the same number planned for the condominium, developer Brooks Byrd told port authority commissioners.
The agreement today would increase the purchase price of the land by $300,000 to $10.57 million if the longer option were exercised.

However, there is no guarantee financing will be obtained, given the tightening of the credit market, the developers said.

The consecutive purchase options give the developer up to another year to obtain financing on the project.

In an agreement forged with neighboring Harbour Island residents in 2006, Byrd agreed to slash retail space, including a large urban grocery, from 88,000 square feet to 25,000 square feet of mixed retail space. That would include a coffee shop, a pizza restaurant and a cleaners.

The Port of Tampa Maritime Industries Association opposed the contract extension, saying the property should be used to take advantage of the adjacent deep water berth.

However, the port staff said the space was too limited to permit another cruise ship at the nearby cruise terminal, and that the channel area would remain available to small vessels, such as the dinner cruise yacht that has used the berth.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/feb/19/channelside-apartment-project-gets-little-more-tim/

^Renderings, site plans and such...

http://insiterei.com/pdf/Garrison%20Station%20Flyer%205.2008.pdf

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/F/8/6/xy_F8679619-C005-42B4-86E8-E1ACC0B3EB54__.jpg

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/PrintSummarySE.aspx?LID=15755981

Kinda sucks we can't get a tower there, but it would block all views, and it looks like this project has a good focus on street interaction.

Yeah, it looks like it has a lot of outdoor dining areas.

I don't think it's nearly interactive enough. For infill, it's fine. This site, however, is too important. I hope the credit crunch kills it off.

^Meh, I don't like the architectual style (looks cheap for that location) but I feel with the oak trees, awnings and retail it'll be more than just walkable and won't be a dead zone once the retail fills into it.

Style is similar to Post Harbour Island

Great - look at the full plan - just cuts more people from water views - no retail on the water - just housing. Screw them too. Wait for something good

Great - look at the full plan - just cuts more people from water views - no retail on the water - just housing. Screw them too. Wait for something good

Unfortunatley, retail on the water in Channelside is unlikely due to the port continuing to dominate Channelside. Just look at the entertainment complex, completely walled off from the water.

The port will spew that Homeland Security stuff like they are for the parking garage...

I can understand people wanting to preserve great waterfront views, but have you all seen the views from Channelside lately? It's not a picture of paradise by any means...

I would honestly be surprised if they can get a premium for those waterfront views (it's very different that Post Harbour Island Views - which are actually quite nice).

You're making lots of assumptions about what people value. Access to water - all types of water - is one of them. Let's not wall off the waterfront with cheap housing in the name of infill! infill! infill! and then wonder why we've got a lifeless, claustrophobic mess of stucco and mildew-covered shades of hot pink.

You're making lots of assumptions about what people value. Access to water - all types of water - is one of them. Let's not wall off the waterfront with cheap housing in the name of infill! infill! infill! and then wonder why we've got a lifeless, claustrophobic mess of stucco and mildew-covered shades of hot pink.

Not really... I understand that waterfront is high on the list of key variables that can make a property stand apart from others. Quality of waterfront is just as important and I personally think the quality of waterfront in that location is poor - considering there is industrial runoff from an active port affecting the property. Plus, I know some people enjoy looking at oil storage tanks (I can't relate), but that to me just is not a priority for the public to demand access to such views.

Also, I don't understand the need for people to keep whining about the public not having enough access to the waterfront. Tampa has tons of public waterfront (i.e. Bayshore Blvd, parts of Davis Island, our public beaches, etc). I don't think I've ever seen someone have a problem accessing the water (to look at) because of overwhelming crowds.

If the city was trying to sell our existing public waterfront, then I would agree with those that want to preserve the privilege for the public to be able to access the water (for recreation or for scenic views). I just don't see that happening and don't think we should be dictating that private landowners redesign or allow for public uses on their property.

I'd briefly counter that, aside from aesthetics (debatable - but this spot does have a decent view, I think), waterfronts offer significant bioregional benefits. Walling it off with design like this doesn't make sense from an economic sense (it's a shit design, first of all), but, more importantly, doesn't make any accommodations to work *with* the water. What about channeling light and wind - especially fresh air - from the water? We've been building cities forever emphasizing these bioregion influences. It flies in the face of common sense as much as it does planning to wall this off.

That said, I think - as I've always thought - that we need much stronger, much more thoughtful design review. Some might argue that it hinders developers; I'd counter that it's well within the legal right of cities to develop these policies and that inspiring common vision actually attracts better development and increases the economic viability of an area. It's pretty much planning/urban design-101. You could take a weekend seminar on this stuff - it's hardly rocket science.

^^ Couldn't agree more. To me this design does not fit the Channel District.
Tampa definitly needs a better design review.
Hindering developers? Maybe at first, but it would force the developers to hire architects who know what they are doing and design not just good designs, but also designing more to the site.

Tampa also needs to implement a green building incentive like in cities in Chicago and Portland. Even a green roof incentive would be great!

Walling it off with design like this doesn't make sense from an economic sense (it's a shit design, first of all), but, more importantly, doesn't make any accommodations to work *with* the water.
How do you come to this conclusion?

It's far more valuable to have retail along Channelside, than along the channel. And likewise, it's more valuable to have residential along the channel, than along Channelside.

How do you come to this conclusion?

It's far more valuable to have retail along Channelside, than along the channel. And likewise, it's more valuable to have residential along the channel, than along Channelside.

I was referring to the specific configuration of the site. Obviously, what you said is true. That said, this should be space reserved for truly mixed use buildings - structures that take advantages of all of the ecological influences of the site. This doesn't. A string of shops along Channelside hardly qualifies. By more economical, I mean a building with such a design that seeks to more competently integrate these elements. There are tonnes of examples out there. There are also more subtle, but useful economic considerations, including the long term viability of this structure/design (other than "cheapness"," we need to be concerned about whether or not this is a sustainable configuration of a structure. Can it adapt as the District grows? As a low-end apartment building, probably not), as well as the ecological effects this has on Channelside Drive. If we continue to wall-off the waterfront, we risk sacrificing fresh air, view corridors, etc. All of these need to be weighed, and I think that the "benefits" of this structure are too few relative to what we stand to lose.

Yah the building sucks... looks like it belongs in the burbs

It looks like a Ybor kinda project. It seriously doesn't belong there. And anyone complaining that a taller project would block the views for some residents.....how? You have Towers at Channelside across the street that pretty much offers anyone living there a view of the Port and Garrison Channel. And on the other corner, you'll have Prime Meridian that will still have a view of the Port, even though they will be busy working. And blocking off the view from people walking along Channelside Drive? How far will it have to take for them to get to Riverwalk? Or to that bridge into Harbour Island? If people complained because their views were blocked off from another project, just imagine how many angry residents there would be in NYC or Miami or Chicago. Be lucky enough you can afford a $200,000+ unit.

And imagine if the members on here were on the develepment review board, Tampa would be waaaay different. :D

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8423/tampa1013.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/710/tampa1014.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4336/tampa1016.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7093/tampa1017.jpg

Sorry for the lack of pics. I'll try to get more the next time I am down there.

^Nice pics.

I want to hear what's up with Prime Meridian Center so we can get rid of some of those parking lots. :yes:

Love the pics, but the most prominent things are those damn surface lots. Gonna take awhile to burn off the excess condo/rental capacity before those get filled in. It would actually be nice to see some mid-rise commercial go into those lots. That area could stand to add another couple thousand jobs.

The lots in the foreground were/are to be the Prime Meridian office building. No idea if/when that might ever get built

Hey Im doing a design project and I'm using the florida aquarium as part of my influence to the structure does anyone have pictures of it from all angels? Or just any pictures of the exterior part.

^ Try Google Earth, you can zoom around the aquarium all you'd like. They have photos stitched over the 3D models now, so it looks great.

Oh really? Sweet thanks for letting me know that man.

Google Earth is great because it works so well with SketchUp, because they are from the same company. Though many firms love their Revit or Desktop, SketchUp is becoming more and more accepted for renderings because it is so easy to use, is cheap, and it integrates with Google Earth. Its worth spending the $400 to get the full version if you have th cash. Its a great parametric modelling program so it covers pretty much all you'll need for renderings. Unless you are doing some very technical engineering drawings or technical drawings, its all you really need.

Btw, meant to ask this after my post with the pics, does anyone know whats going on at the southwest corner at the intersection of Channelside Dr. and Beneficial Dr.? All I say at the time was dugged up ground and like 3 concrete walls. Signs or Murals maybe?

^Isn't that just a parking lot right now? I don't know what could be going on there...

^Isn't that just a parking lot right now? I don't know what could be going on there...
Yeah its still a parking lot, but they tore up the existing sidewalk and look like they are bringing the Riverwalk up to that point. But they had 3 concrete walls, each in their own angle, right between the parking lot and the new sidewalk. No one was working on it at the time so I didn't have anyone to ask.

^Oh yes, the Riverwalk is being brought up to Channelside. Since that is the end/start of the Riverwalk those could just be signs for the Riverwalk.

I think this is what you're refering to -
http://centraltampa2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/24/na-riverwalk-mural-a-quilt-of-images/c_1/

I think this is what you're refering to -
http://centraltampa2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/24/na-riverwalk-mural-a-quilt-of-images/c_1/
That is probably it, thanks dude. :)

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_economic_and_urban_development/files/Channel_District/Channel_District_News_Spring_09.pdf

Channelside's Spring Newsletter

Things Discussed:

- Port Authority's Parking Garage
- Opening of Slade
- Hotel Indigo
- Aja Nightclub in Towers at Channelside
- Powerhouse Gym at Grand Central
- Live Theatre at Grand Central
- and Meeting Dates

^Thanks for posting that. :)

I don't think it's nearly interactive enough. For infill, it's fine. This site, however, is too important. I hope the credit crunch kills it off.
This is a major understatement. Just remember, it's a two-fer deal... We're getting that God-awful Port Authority garage across the street, specifically to make way for this similarly myopic design.




One thing though... The 'low-rise' massing of the building doesn't destroy views for the neighborhood's inland properties, it helps preserve them. This building would be barely taller than Channelside Bay Plaza, and would be about the same height as the pedestal for T@C, or the proposed Port Authority garage across Channelside, or the History Museum across Beneficial Dr. It blocks nothing that isn't already blocked. However, as we have discussed before, put two 300ft+ buildings there, and now you're blocking some inland views.

Btw, I think that both the use (residential) and the occupable space planned on is a serious underutilization of the site.

Towers of Channelside Bankruptcy Update-Tampa, Fl

Posted on April 17, 2009 by realtyrae

http://tamparealestateinsider.wordpress.com/2009/04/17/towers-of-channelside-update-tampa-fl/

TAMPA — Nearly half of the 257 condos at the Towers of Channelside have sold, including one in February to Tampa Bay Rays third baseman Evan Longoria, but those sales still aren’t enough. The developer of the twin 29-story towers has notified its lender it’s giving up on the project 15 months after it sought bankruptcy court protection and six months after it declared its reorganization a success.

“Unfortunately it’s the economy. It’s bigger than us. It’s bigger than any one person,” said Richard Sacchi, a principal of Towers of Channelside LLC.

If you are looking to purchase a condo or have questions about developments in the Channelside and Downtown Tampa Districts give us a call

813 784 7744 or email: realtyrae@yahoo.com

^^
The recession is still so bad right now. Slowly, it seems to get better, but unemployment in FL will easily reach 10% before significant recovery occurs.

Lol thats bad ass Longoria bought a unit in ToC though!

ToC is going to get even cheaper... At this rate, I might be able to buy one in a few months... lololol

How far are you expecting the drop to end at?

Several thousand units up here have been auctioned off in the past few months. Generally things have been going for 35-50% of original list price. One of the bigger phases of Atlantic Station just had an auction, I expect the 75 unit+ townhome development next door to auction off soon. They dropped their price 25% already. Your lucky you have some overcapacity, not an amazing amount of overcapacity. Buyers are being ruthless too, nothing is selling until its at auction. Lenders won't lend either when there is so much blood in the water, they know when a project is going under, so they won't put their buyers underwater to start out. Its a waiting game. Novare is still running the buy a two bedroom for a one bedroom price deal.

Just got a tour of the new Powerhouse Gym set to open up in a few weeks down here in Channelside at the Grand Central. Will be about 25,000 sq ft when completely built out.

In addition to the requisite free weights, strength machines, and cardio equipment, it's going to have some cool and unique areas / features, such as a rock climbing wall, Santa Monica stairs, kickboxing and some new rope-and-pully equipment that uses your body weight as resistance.

To me, this is exactly the type of business we need filling in vacant spaces in the district to make it more than just a place to reside.

Sounds like a great gym! I wish my gym were nicer...mine has rubber floors though!::nuts:

Steve

There are also meetings over at Grand Central in regards to a dog park -- not the park already announced at 12th and Whiting. This is actually a small parcel of land for sale directly behind Grand Central's East Building -- I think its the old E.M. White land on Madison right behind the tire/auto repair place.

Don't know how far the proceedings are going, but they're making a push here. First meeting was last night, and they have two more scheduled meetings in the next week.

New signs just went up today that say "Open June 1st!"

I'm psyched but looking in today, they're going to have to work around-the-clock to get this open in five days. Still, exciting news for the neighborhood, as it looks like it'll be one of the nicest gyms in the Tampa Bay region.

New signs just went up today that say "Open June 1st!"

I'm psyched but looking in today, they're going to have to work around-the-clock to get this open in five days. Still, exciting news for the neighborhood, as it looks like it'll be one of the nicest gyms in the Tampa Bay region.

I'll believe it when I see it.

hahaha... I'll just be happy when the units that have been built actually become occupied.

There were a couple people and a businessperson I'm guessing talking about leasing the northeast corner of TofC on Wednesday. From the very lack of business talk I know, it sounds like another restaurant/bar.

I'll believe it when I see it.

You can believe it, now, because Powerhouse did open yesterday!

New Channelside Parking Garage Renderings in AIA's People's Choice Award
http://www.aiatampabay.com/PC/Commerical%2009/C-31/

New Channelside Parking Garage Renderings in AIA's People's Choice Award
http://www.aiatampabay.com/PC/Commerical%2009/C-31/

I'm confused by the first two renderings. The first one looks like the elevation facing Channelside Drive, so.....what elevation is the second rendering? Anybody have any thoughts?

Maybe 12th St.?

Steve

Much better than the previous renderings. Hopefully they'll follow through with the same level of detailing in the actual construction.

^Agreed.

Still, the lack of ground floor retail is disturbing.

Much better than the previous renderings. Hopefully they'll follow through with the same level of detailing in the actual construction.
It won't matter. That lifeless mass of concrete masquerading as a respectable building is going to be regretted shortly after it is completed. Well, except by the people making money putting it up. They'll pat each other on the back and give themselves phony awards.

I think its in the worst location since there is a garage right behind it. It'd be best for that land to be a park. The best place for the garage should be further up so that vistors to the residences can park there.

the garage should be further up so that visitors to the residences can park there.

That would require residents though! LOL....but in all seriousness, I agree, a garage further up Meridian would be nice, and really it would only add a couple hundred more feet to walk.


Steve

That would require residents though! LOL....but in all seriousness, I agree, a garage further up Meridian would be nice, and really it would only add a couple hundred more feet to walk.


Steve

The Port Authority is building this, on land they own. They need more parking for the cruise ships. That's why it's being built where it is.

The Port Authority is building this, on land they own. They need more parking for the cruise ships. That's why it's being built where it is.

Oh, I know that. However, this is something where the city should have stepped in and said no. Maybe do a land swap or something. The fact remains that this is a terrible spot (IMO) for a garage. It will cut off TOC from Channelside and create another barrier of concrete along what is supposed to be one of Tampa's premier pedestrian areas.

Steve

They can't build ontop of their existing garage?

^Retrofitting that garage's foundation would cost a bit more than building a new one. As discussed in the Ybor thread, we already know that the only viable option for any public project is the cheapest, bare minimum, most regrettable design conceivable (presumably so it can be redone later, thus the development lobby gets double the payola).

Obviously a creative solution, like expanding the existing garage, was never given serious consideration. Nor was building a garage on the lot in front of cruise terminal 3 apparently considered, even though that location would serve the aquarium, CBP, and both cruise terminals well... Don't worry though, I'm sure they'll build a garage over there next... We can garage up Channelside, just like the CBD.

edit: and perhaps most alarming of all here is the question there seems to be no logical answer to; Why is the port authority subsidizing development of the surface (valet) lot next to CBP by building a public garage, instead of requiring that the parking be integrated into that project, or accounted for another way? The port authority's public excuse that this garage has to be built before ZOM's apartment project can be built is puzzling, given that there are several acres of vacant land within a couple of blocks of the current valet lot which could be leased and converted for parking for the time of construction. So why is the port authority so eager to cut corners on the build-out of Channelside, and ultimately devalue its own assets? Are the people running the authority really this myopic?

That's so anti pedestrian. They really should put it somewhere else. I think its stupid to have two garages across the street from eachother. Are we really that lazy? When I go downtown I like to walk, I ALWAYS park under I-275 and walk down Franklin

^Remember, Channelside gets a lot of lazy, fat suburbanites that go there to be cool.

Instead of spending $13mil on a garage, why don't they spend $13mil extending the streetcar up to Whiting (will cost about $4-5mil), and then use the rest to extend it further up Franklin to Cass St (or Zack, or whatever) and over to Ashley St? The streetcar would then connect Channelside's large attractions with the city's Poe and Hixon garages, massive Ft Brooke, the Whiting garage, as well as countless surface lots and street spaces. Plus, thousands of DT workers would be connected to Channelside and Ybor, as would several hotels, the two museums u/c, TBPAC, the main library, etc.

Nah f*** it. Let's just build another parking garage, and who gives a s*** if we make downtown Tampa even more of an urban planning disaster than it already is.

I wish Saul Sena would just quit

I wish that our leaders would learn how to make better choices.

New garage design looks about 100x better than the current beast.

^That's the problem, it's just the looks that were improved. And trust me, when it's built it won't look nearly so good.

^^ Most definitly.

This is the thing that I don't understand. If it's the Port Authority's garage that is there already, why is the public using it to eat at Channelside Plaza or go to a Lightning's game? Wouldn't it ease up spaces if they just made that garage for cruise customers only? Which would mean that the city would be able to build a garage at any other location than the planned location?

This is the thing that I don't understand. If it's the Port Authority's garage that is there already, why is the public using it to eat at Channelside Plaza or go to a Lightning's game? Wouldn't it ease up spaces if they just made that garage for cruise customers only? Which would mean that the city would be able to build a garage at any other location than the planned location?

Logic doesn't work in Florida. Most of them don't remember what house is theirs.

Logic doesn't work in Florida. Most of them don't remember what house is theirs.
Maybe there is a reason, maybe there isn't. But there has to be other options on the table that both the City and the Port Authority is either ignoring or haven't looked at. Espcially considering that this is a area that the City has spent years on trying to improve.

Part 1

ConAgra Plant w/ Towers at Channelside in background
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/921/trip048.jpg

Towers at Channelside
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4571/trip049.jpg

The Slade
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4540/trip050.jpg

The Slade and Grand Central
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6026/trip051.jpg

Slade Again
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5711/trip052x.jpg

The Powerhouse Gym location and the sign
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3780/trip053.jpg

Grand Central
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4664/trip054.jpg

The roadway between both buildings of Grand Central
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4130/trip055.jpg

The Front of Slade.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1553/trip056.jpg

Looking down 12th Street
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9568/trip057.jpg

Again lokking down 12th Street
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9568/trip057.jpg

Unknown building. Is it townhomes?
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1075/trip059.jpg

The Slade from 12th Street. The patch of land there, location of the park?
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8775/trip060.jpg

Ummm, name please?
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4856/trip061z.jpg

Slade one last time.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8237/trip062.jpg

Part 2

The Place at Channelside
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5194/trip063.jpg

Place at Channelside on the left and looking down 12th Street
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/57/trip064.jpg

Forgot the name of this place.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/760/trip065d.jpg

AGH! Dragon!
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3691/trip066.jpg

Towers at Channelside
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2487/trip068.jpg

Looking back at 12th Street. (Yes, I walked the whole stretch)
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7447/trip069.jpg

Land that will once be Seaboard Square and Indigo Hotel
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1930/trip070.jpg

Looking north on Meridian Drive
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7067/trip071.jpg

Looking north up the train tracks we all love ;)
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2045/trip073.jpg

Tower 1 at Tower @ Channelside
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1048/trip074.jpg

View of Downtown Tampa
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2839/trip076.jpg

The finish plan for the beginning of the Riverwalk
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9774/trip078.jpg

^The townhomes you didn't know is Channelside 212. Which is like the first project that was in the district.

The other place with the dragon is Rustic Steel.

Nice pics.

Any sign of life at Slade?

^The townhomes you didn't know is Channelside 212. Which is like the first project that was in the district.

The other place with the dragon is Rustic Steel.

Nice pics.

Any sign of life at Slade?
Nah not yet. But I do have to say that I remember commenting how it looked like the renders would be trying to disquise the parking garage from the east, well that never happened. Sad that the city isn't more strict on this, but can be anal on other things.

Any sign of life at Slade?

Actually, yep. Judging solely by balcony furniture (and I'm sure there are others with nothing on the balconies yet), there are probably ~30 occupied units right now, especially along the pool area and on the Kennedy Street side. The 11th Street side, which I can see from Grand Central, only has 4-5 places occupied. So its coming along ... slowly.

The South Building of the Slade probably has another month or so before its completed, based on what I saw there yesterday walking by.

^Thanks. How is the street scene coming along? Like as far as retail space, landscaping, sidewalks etc?

^Thanks. How is the street scene coming along? Like as far as retail space, landscaping, sidewalks etc?

Still very much lacking in most areas. I say most areas, because sidewalks is the one area where a lot of progression has been seen -- nice sidewalks on Kennedy, Meridian, and most of 11th and 12th Streets now, along with benches in many areas (particularly on Meridian and in front of The Place).

Landscaping is okay -- The Slade did the best in this area, as they planted shade trees (elms?) that will be tall enough in 2-3 years to provide decent cover from the heat.

There still really is no retail space -- the Powerhouse Gym is the first significant addition to the retail space at Grand Central, and I don't know of anything planned for Ventana, The Place, or The Slade. Towers has Aja and Red Brick, and Meridian/Model T have District Designs and Give and Take (Luxe Urbain disappeared).

StageWorks is building out in Grand Central now, and according to the developer, a grocery store announcement is "so close" (take this for granted, as I've heard this numerous times in the past 2 years), so it'll get there. If/when a grocery store starts building, I think there will be a swarm of restaurants that'll locate here as well. We'll see -- but its MUCH better here compared to even a year ago. People on Kennedy pretty much at all times now -- not crowded, but not completely barren like even a few months ago.

Actually, yep. Judging solely by balcony furniture (and I'm sure there are others with nothing on the balconies yet), there are probably ~30 occupied units right now, especially along the pool area and on the Kennedy Street side. The 11th Street side, which I can see from Grand Central, only has 4-5 places occupied. So its coming along ... slowly.

The South Building of the Slade probably has another month or so before its completed, based on what I saw there yesterday walking by.
Must have gotten there in the past week then.

On the grocery store, it will certainly be a great addition to the Channelside District. And hopefully it will add some traffic to the area up there because when I was there, I saw only about 7 people along my way.

Great pics! I love The Place. If I were to move DT/Chanelside that would be one of my prime spots to look.

BTW, unless I am mistaken I believe it is "Towers of Channelside" rather than at Channelside. Grat pics though, very comprehensive overview of the Channelside district.

Steve

Great pics! I love The Place. If I were to move DT/Chanelside that would be one of my prime spots to look.

BTW, unless I am mistaken I believe it is "Towers of Channelside" rather than at Channelside. Grat pics though, very comprehensive overview of the Channelside district.

Steve
Yeah, its Towers of Channelside, I always seem to screw up with them.

I actually like the color of The Place. It's not plain white but at the same time its not them bright colors that some consider Grand Central has. Hopefully the Place 2 can start up in the near future.

The problem with The Place is that it's monochromatic with shades of green typically seen adorning the interior of a hospital built in the 1970s.

^The interior and common areas are great, and the street interaction isn't too bad.

But yeah, the exterior color is reminiscent of a nurses's smock.

IMO I love The Place's color scheme, but maybe I do not mind 1970's hospitals! Hehe.....but really, The Place has one of the best street scenes of any of the buildings in that part of Channelside. I mean, they actually built commercial space in the base of the building! It is not rented right now..but it is there. Not to mention the architecture is not just flat walls, the balconies and glass are colored rathre than just clear, and there are benches, and a street car stop across the road.

Steve

They are very good pictures, but the thing that stands out to me is the absolute lack of people. Its like the beginning of "28 Days Later". I realize that its not the most lived in sections of town and the time of day and day of the week make a huge difference, but really aren't there at least some homeless people walking around? When you start seeing people strolling around at all hours, then you'll know the neighborhood is starting to take off.

There was a couple people strolling around, but not the amount that should be strolling around.

With the economic down turn there really is no reason for people to mill around the area, unless they are going to Channelside or jogging. The retail in the base of the residential buildings is basically empty. Until there is a grocery store and the retail is 25% - 35% built out there is really no reason to mill around. Give it 2 years and it will be a hopping place.

Steve

The commercial space will need to be closer to 80% built out to see folks around and that's the problem. Think about the low vacancy rates on Kennedy, DM, S Howard, even Busch Boulevard has more pedestrian traffic. They need to get some professional offices in those units as soon as the economy starts to turn around. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, those are the types of businesses that could really benefit from the location and not need the high visibility retail does.

The area is terribly vacant and I hate to say overbuilt. It wouldn't have been as bad, if the various developers hadn't tried to squeeze in units that are too small for the market. Too many units were overpriced for their comparative size, and it seems developers have a reflexive antipathy towards three bedroom units. If the area is to grow as a metro, developers will have to realize that there are a lot of blended families out there that would consider Channelside, but can't because its all 1-2 bedrooms and they need three as a minimum. The three bedrooms that were in the TofC were so expensive they were out of the ballpark for most. The world isn't made up of single professionals, and generally even single professionals tend to plan ahead. Before my wife and I even got engaged we only looked at buying a two bedroom as a minimum. Now that its the two of us plus our child, our next place will be a three bedroom.

Planned Channel District apartment-retail project dies

By TED JACKOVICS | The Tampa Tribune

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jun/16/planned-channel-district-apartment-retail-project-/

A $54 million Channel District apartment project, envisioned in 2003 as a pair of 30-story condominium projects before being scaled back and later stalled by a lack of financing, has become the latest casualty of the recession and local real estate downturn.

Clearwater-based Byrd Corp., alerted Port of Tampa officials this week it would forfeit $513,000 in a purchase option agreement for 3.5 acres of land on Garrison Channel between Channelside Bay Plaza and the St. Pete Times Forum, port director Richard Wainio said this morning.

Byrd, in February, had obtained two consecutive six-month purchase options from the Tampa Port Authority for a deal that would have paid the port $10.57 million for the land if the longer option were exercised.

However, there was no guarantee that Byrd was going to be able to obtaining financing, developer Brooks Byrd said earlier this year. Byrd could not be reached for comment this morning.

In an agreement forged with neighboring Harbour Island residents in 2006, Byrd agreed to slash retail space, including a large urban grocery, from 88,000 square feet to 25,000 square feet of mixed retail space. That would have included a coffee shop, a pizza restaurant and a cleaners.

Although the apartment complex was scaled back to five stories, it would have had the 250 apartments, the same number as the originally planned condo towers.

The land is being used as a valet parking lot and the port intends to find another vendor to continue the parking operation, port chief financial officer Mike Macaluso said.

Mixed emotions on this. Although the empty lot is something we don't want to look at anymore, the failure of this will allow for something more interesting and worthwhile for the Channelside area. The Harbour Island residents must be sipping their wine right now in joy.

Just noticed the ribbon shapes along Meridian

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7067/trip071.jpg

Be happy they added those bits in. Too often new public development is devoid of this type of thing. They make the public spaces more interesting and more enjoyable. Imagine if Tampa had more of this and fewer overhead powerlines.

^^
Huh? The ribbon scheme has been there since the opening of the Crosstown REL (actually a few months before). That's been well over a year now!

What makes those wavey design elements doubly cool, head the opposite direction (south) all of the waves have an orange and yellow color scheme!

What makes those wavey design elements doubly cool, head the opposite direction (south) all of the waves have an orange and yellow color scheme!

Meridian is probably my favorite street/thoroughfare in Tampa. Not only with the overhead design elements, but also with the curved path on the West side of the street (and nice wide sidewalk on the East side), and cool benches and small bits of landscaping everywhere. The city did a really nice job on this project.

Meridian is probably my favorite street/thoroughfare in Tampa. Not only with the overhead design elements, but also with the curved path on the West side of the street (and nice wide sidewalk on the East side), and cool benches and small bits of landscaping everywhere. The city did a really nice job on this project.

Seconded.

I just hadn't noticed them until now. But they do make the place look much better. Imagine if something similar was done along the length of Kennedy, that combined with undergrounding the utilities would make it a true grand avenue between DT and Westshore.

YAY!!!

Now that God awful parking garage the Port Authority is trying to build to replace this valet lot has no reason to exist and can be killed.

I'm serious, we should write the relevant officials and push for that garage to be killed. There's no reason to spend $13+ million on that garage now, and there clearly won't be for several years.

Planned Channel District apartment-retail project dies....

A $54 million Channel District apartment project, envisioned in 2003 as a pair of 30-story condominium projects before being scaled back and later stalled by a lack of financing, has become the latest casualty of the recession and local real estate downturn....

....The land is being used as a valet parking lot and the port intends to find another vendor to continue the parking operation, port chief financial officer Mike Macaluso said.

I just hadn't noticed them until now. But they do make the place look much better. Imagine if something similar was done along the length of Kennedy, that combined with undergrounding the utilities would make it a true grand avenue between DT and Westshore.
Only if it has rail running down the median.

YAY!!!

Now that God awful parking garage the Port Authority is trying to build to replace this valet lot has no reason to exist and can be killed.

I'm serious, we should write the relevant officials and push for that garage to be killed. There's no reason to spend $13+ million on that garage now, and there clearly won't be for several years.
I wouldn't kill any garage proposed for Channelside, but the design and lack of interest from the Port Authority to add retail and improve on pedestrian interaction has me on another hill. If the P.A. did change the design and add retail, I would be less opposed to the new garage, but then the location kills any hope me backing the proposal.

Now on Garrison, it's hard what I want to see here. Ever since Jason brought it up, I don't want anything larger then 12 stories on the site. But I don't want a apartment building there at the same time. I still think the lot can handle a grocery chain, unlike the Harbour Island residents, but agree that the traffic situation needs to be worked on to handle the increase of traffic. It may seem radical of a idea, but to whomever develops on the site, I would propose a one way throughway going through the base of the building. You would enter where using the road between the Channelside Plaza and this lot, go through where the entrance and exit for the parking garage will also be located, and exit on to Meridian Drive. It would be better than having the entrance and exit for the garage on either street, but don't if the Harbour Island residents would accept such an idea.

[QUOTE=Jasonhouse;38399684]YAY!!!

Now that God awful parking garage the Port Authority is trying to build to replace this valet lot has no reason to exist and can be killed.

I read that the P.A. was building the garage for bus and other additional cruise ship parking, not to replace the valet lot.

Again, the PA should make the parking garage for cruise customers only and they don't need a new garage. Have the city build a garage with better design, add retail, and taadaa!

Hello everyone, I have been following this forum for probably 7-8 years but I have never posted, but that I am registered I intend too... I am 28, married, live near Ybor and born and raised in Tampa... never lived anywhere else. I wanted to share this article from the 7/7/09 In Town Tampa Newsletter. It has some interesting news about the changes to the new Channelside parking garage:

http://www.tampasdowntown.com/newsletter.aspx?newid=69

People-friendly garage for Channelside
By GARY SHEPHERD

The notion of a people-friendly parking garage might seem like an oxymoron. But the people financing, designing, and building a 720-space garage in downtown Tampa’s Channelside District are making the garage as human-friendly as possible.
Changes to original plans include revised traffic flow and parking angles and thus one less level, a wider sidewalk with pedestrian-shading overhangs, improved aesthetics, better landscaping, and other upgrades.

The final design of the Tampa Port Authority’s $13.3 million valet parking garage has garnered pre-construction awards from the American Institute of Architects Tampa Bay and Orlando chapters.

The garage will be built north of Channelside Drive and the Channelside retail complex, notes Chris Osborn, vice president of Dallas-based HKS Architects, which opened a regional Tampa office 25 years ago.

“The original design was for five floors, but we figured out a way to get the same number of spaces in four stories so the building wouldn’t have to be as tall,” says Osborn. A key change was to plan 90-degree parking rather than 45-degree angled parking – that change allows about 20 percent more parking spaces.

As well as pleasing neighbors and other early critics, the revised design is less expensive, says Osborn. For instance, less concrete was needed for four rather than five floors. The savings allow amenities such as perforated aluminum panels as an attractive skin for the building.

The sidewalks under the pedestrian-protecting overhang are 10 feet wide rather than the original six feet, six inches. The extra room also allowed more extensive landscaping, which will include crepe myrtles and palm trees, Osborn says.

The valet garage will be primarily for cruise ship passengers, says Osborn. “It can be converted to self-park with the way we have it set up,” Osborn says. He notes the bottom floor can be converted to retail space when the market heats up.

Construction will begin after approval by city of Tampa staff. Osborn said that review is ongoing and should be complete soon.

One early critic of the garage was Tampa City Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena. She attended Port of Tampa meetings to voice her concerns, and Saul-Sena says she’s somewhat pleased with the changes. She notes that public art is planned there.

Manhattan Construction Co., a subsidiary of Naples, Fla.-based Rooney Holdings, is the builder for the project.

If they really want to make a "pedestrian" friendly garage, reserve the top level for a rooftop park, have exterior elevators/staircases that go straight to the roof top park, and voila. Parking garage and park with the "anti-heat island effect."

This is really pretty funny...

The notion of a people-friendly parking garage might seem like an oxymoron. But the people financing, designing, and building a 720-space garage in downtown Tampa’s Channelside District are making the garage as human-friendly as possible.
And what, pray-tell are the features that will make this garage as, "human friendly as possible"?

Apparently not much at all...
Changes to original plans include revised traffic flow and parking angles and thus one less level, a wider sidewalk with pedestrian-shading overhangs, improved aesthetics, better landscaping, and other upgrades.

I guess nobody considered how much more 'pedestrian friendly' that sliver of land would be if it became a park, or if a handful of shops and restaurants were built there...

If they REALLY want this project that bad, let em have it but force them to make a PUBLIC park on the roof. Imagine how neat that would be. That part of town will have great skyline views.

It wouldn't be big enough to be of any use.

Now, the roof of the existing garage...

Welcome, JimTampa!

Even though I'm not in favor of this parking garage, at least these changes (additional landscaping, 1st floor potential conversion to retail when practical) are a small step in the right direction.

It really floors me how little the city and port authority have thought about pedestrian access for the residents of the Channel District area, and how they get to Channelside. The vast majority walk down 12th Street, then dodge cars at the parking ramp, walk across a swath of grass, and dodge cars again crossing the street to get to the main entrance. Makes perfect sense, right?

I completely agree with the green roof deck park idea. The whole of Channelside is one giant heat sink. If it weren't for the CSX corridor I doubt there would be 1/4 acre of green space in the area (exempting the Aquarium property). Since a green roof deck won't be done, and another giant concrete heat machine is being added, the city ought to make it a priority to acquire the CSX corridor when it becomes available for a real park.

I like Jason's idea of using the existing garage for a park.
But that whole property along meridian would make a nice linear park separating downtown and channelside. Like what D is sayin

Well, the city supposidly will announce plans for three "pocket parks" in Channelside this year. Nothing huge of course, but some green space.

not sure if anyone caught this last quote...Osborn says: He notes the bottom floor can be converted to retail space when the market heats up...I guess its better than no option of retail at all. I also think it would be nice to have a "tunnel" of some sort that lined up with 12th street and the existing tunnel that leads into the courtyard on the south side of the street. Creating another crosswalk at that point might be helpful as well.

not sure if anyone caught this last quote...Osborn says: He notes the bottom floor can be converted to retail space when the market heats up...I guess its better than no option of retail at all. I also think it would be nice to have a "tunnel" of some sort that lined up with 12th street and the existing tunnel that leads into the courtyard on the south side of the street. Creating another crosswalk at that point might be helpful as well.

Yes! Another crosswalk - raised, with caution lights, etc. - directly to the cut-through tunnel in the Channelside Plaza is desperately needed. The current cluster-f**k of a crosswalk is a pedestrian-death waiting to happen.
A pedestrian bridge OVER Channelside would be ideal, but the $ factor would likely k-o that idea.

They should build the garage so residential units and/or offices could eventually be built on top, and they could actually profit or at least make some of the money back. If they did that, plus later converted ground space to retail, it'd be ok.

^Happy 5000th post!

:dance:

^Thanks. :) I knew I was getting close but didn't notice until you mentioned it.

Better yet, build the garage on the lot over in front of Terminal 3, and leave this damn parcel alone!

Since we're talking about making the Crosstown underground, would the city ever consider making underground walkways from one side of Channelside Dr. to the other side? Or would that be too much money spent for such a small thing?

^That would be completely impractical.

It would be much easier to make a pedestrian overpass.

Since we're talking about making the Crosstown underground, would the city ever consider making underground walkways from one side of Channelside Dr. to the other side? Or would that be too much money spent for such a small thing?

And who is going to pay after the lawsuit when the first pedestrian drowns during a thunderstorm?

If they built that it could alter the foundations of surrounding buildings because they'd need to build a foundation to the water table which will change the pressure of the sand all around downtown.
In Mexico city one of their oldest theatres was built on level. As time went on it sunk, when they started building skyscrapers around it the theatre arose from being sunken to the point where they needed to demolish the old stairs going down and build new ones going up.

I don't think that the water table under DT land would change much, regardless of what was built. The soil is plenty porous and open water is only a few hundred yards away from just about anywhere downtown.

Besides, Mexico City's problem stems from a real messy geology that Tampa has almost no relation to... A basin featuring soil with high clay content sitting on a top of a porous volcanic bedrock that has been shattered and made even more porous by the region's frequent earthquakes.

I don't think that the water table under DT land would change much, regardless of what was built. The soil is plenty porous and open water is only a few hundred yards away from just about anywhere downtown.

Besides, Mexico City's problem stems from a real messy geology that Tampa has almost no relation to... A basin featuring soil with high clay content sitting on a top of a porous volcanic bedrock that has been shattered and made even more porous by the region's frequent earthquakes.

Oh I thought Mexico City had sand soil lol my bad.

And who is going to pay after the lawsuit when the first pedestrian drowns during a thunderstorm?
I tried searching for any news articles or reports of drownings in probably the city with most miles of underground walkways, London, and couldn't find one.

Two reasons why that would never happen:

1) The city would likely install drains to prevent much water from backing up and flooding the walkways.
2)If deemed by the police department, they would have control in closing off the walkways.

I would say overpasses would be alright, but one thing hampers overpasses and that is the ropes that the Trolley's use. That's either going to be a very steep staircase and ramp or a very long staircase and ramp to get to a height that wouldn't interefere with the lines.

^ Or you know just let people cross the street like they do in thousands of cities across the world... It's not an amazingly high traffic area and the cars are moving slowly. If it gets bad, install a traffic light on the crosswalk to stop traffic.

^ Or you know just let people cross the street like they do in thousands of cities across the world... It's not an amazingly high traffic area and the cars are moving slowly. If it gets bad, install a traffic light on the crosswalk to stop traffic.
You must being going to a different Channelside than I am. I went today and saw two things that stuck out. Had dumbasses going atleast 15 mph over the speed limit until they reach they roundabout and someone believing that the trolley can go around them. Oh wait, it can't, and the trolley had to ring it's bells to get this family out of the damn way.

I'm not saying these would have to be everywhere, but having it in a area where in 10 years will hopefully have more residences and be attracting more people due it's huge amount of retail, it would be better to have atleast 4 or 5 going under Channelside Dr.

1)Near the St. Pete Times Forum
2)In front of the Channelside Plaza
3)Near where Del Villar is planned
4)Where the gas station is just south of Ventana
5)Just east of Seaport which would connect to the planned Ybor Channel Project.

Heck, one or two could be in the Arts District aswell.

Since we're on the topic of sidewalks and such, the width of the sidewalk up the west side of Channelside Dr. is not going to work. Espicially if, more of a when, people move to the area and the area attracts more people, it's not going to hold all of them. Something will certainly need to be done and I just have a feeling it will be like everything else, wait for the problem to occur and then fix it.

You must being going to a different Channelside than I am. I went today and saw two things that stuck out. Had dumbasses going atleast 15 mph over the speed limit until they reach they roundabout and someone believing that the trolley can go around them. Oh wait, it can't, and the trolley had to ring it's bells to get this family out of the damn way.

I'm not saying these would have to be everywhere, but having it in a area where in 10 years will hopefully have more residences and be attracting more people due it's huge amount of retail, it would be better to have atleast 4 or 5 going under Channelside Dr.

1)Near the St. Pete Times Forum
2)In front of the Channelside Plaza
3)Near where Del Villar is planned
4)Where the gas station is just south of Ventana
5)Just east of Seaport which would connect to the planned Ybor Channel Project.

Heck, one or two could be in the Arts District aswell.

Not only do I walk around there frequently, I also ride my bike there. I know the traffic. It's no where close to needing four or five pedestrian bridges. It has one of the busiest arenas in the world and still does fine. On big event nights there are plenty of police who keep things going smoothly, other times the traffic flow is such that anyone who is competent crossing streets has no problem. There is more traffic and daily pedestrian flow in DT and people can still use crosswalks fine.

Enough about underground walkways... That's just silly. It would take longer to walk up the thing, over and down, than it would to just wait a bit and cross the street when traffic clears.

About the only thing that could really be done down there would be to install a ped light where that ped walkway is that connects the port authority garage with the waterfront attractions. But I don't consider it necessary, just a frill.

Everybody wants the city to be more urban with lots of activity. Overpases or underground walkways are a relic of the 60s and 70s a time, where much of the existing urbanity was destroyed. Keep pedestrians on the same level as cars and understand that the automobile-only oriented times are over.

Does anyone from the Tampa Port Authority see the empty parking garage at Channelside? It is 6 floors high. It is also across the street from Channelside shops and entertainment where people already have to walk across the trolley tracks and busy Channelside Dr. 13 $$$million plus dollars for yet another one? What? Mayor Iorio, where are you? Wake up. This is not intelligent.

Does anyone from the Tampa Port Authority see the empty parking garage at Channelside? It is 6 floors high. It is also across the street from Channelside shops and entertainment where people already have to walk across the trolley tracks and busy Channelside Dr. 13 $$$million plus dollars for yet another one? What? Mayor Iorio, where are you? Wake up. This is not intelligent.

I'm looking at it right now, the cruise ship parking side. It's around 3/4 full -- and this is summer. We only have two regular cruises that dock here from April to October (Carnival Legend and Carnival Inspiration), while the rest of the year, we have Holland Veendam and Royal Caribbean Adventure of the Seas. In addition, Royal Caribbean is sending a larger ship starting this fall, and there are still rumors (hopes) that Disney will send their smaller ships here.

In addition, on Friday and Saturday nights and during events at the Forum, BOTH sides of the garage are full (you should have seen downtown on Tuesday night, during the American Idols Live concert). For holidays and certain events, forget about finding a space there.

And another thing, a new or expanded parking garage would need to be built in the near future anyways. If the Port Authority has the money tio build this and maintain it while waiting for the increase in attendance, I give them all the support. Although that goes with retail and a better design.

Does anyone from the Tampa Port Authority see the empty parking garage at Channelside? It is 6 floors high. It is also across the street from Channelside shops and entertainment where people already have to walk across the trolley tracks and busy Channelside Dr. 13 $$$million plus dollars for yet another one? What? Mayor Iorio, where are you? Wake up. This is not intelligent.

I use the existing parking garage a couple of times a week. Trust me, another parking garage IS needed.

That garage is certainly not empty, but the reason for the new one was because a surface parking lot currently in use was going to be developed leaving significantly fewer spaces in the area. That's not happening now so the need for a new garage has lessened.

Construction fencing went up around the proposed Channelside parking garage site a week or so ago. Manhattan Construction has a sign up on the fence. BTW, they also built Element.

Where is this site? Is it where they were going to build the office tower on the corner of Meridian and Channelside Dr?

No, it's the sliver of land between the Towers at Channelside and Channelside Dr, just west of the port authority garage.

No, it's the sliver of land between the Towers at Channelside and Channelside Dr, just west of the port authority garage.

They've actually broken ground on it now. Also was down there this week, and Joffrey's has closed and completely moved out.

But that's the only bad news recently:

- Powerhouse Gym now has over 1,500 members and expanded hours a couple of weeks ago (now 5am to 11pm M-F, 7am to 9pm Sat-Sun). Smoothie Junction (inside the gym) seems to be doing a decent business as well.

- The street that separates the Grand Central buildings is going to be turned into a courtyard, with a small music venue, fountain, and tables for eating and drinking outside. It'll start just where the garage entrances are and run out to Madison.

- FINALLY, grocery store negotiations are in an advanced stage at Grand Central -- I don't want to name the specific chain, but there's a final meeting of that company's board on August 13th about making a final decision on this new location.

- I think it was on another thread, but StageWorks will open in March 2010 in the West building (actually on the interior of the building).

- Wine Design (at Channelside) are also in late talks with Grand Central about opening a branch here. Less retail space, and more "lounge-y" space with couches, flat screens, and wines by the ounce or glass.

- There are also early discussions about a hair salon, dry cleaning place, Tapas restaurant, and higher-end beer tavern at Grand Central, among others.

- A new coffee shop/cafe called The Dirty Cup is looking at various Channelside locations for a new restaurant.

- A new all-organic gourmet pizza shop called Pizza Fusion is scheduled to go into The Place.

By the way, the last two items came from Urban Corridor Tampa (www.uctampa.com). If you don't subscribe to the free magazine or check out the website occasionally, you should -- they're good about publishing the new developments/rumors throughout downtown.

^Wow. Great stuff all around. Thanks for that link too. :)

Grand Central has the size and space to become a destination. Maybe less like the Channelside complex which is more for people not from Downtown and more like some hangouts and more practical establishments for everyday life (grocery) for the residents.

Hopefully this will be the start of getting some people to travel out of the Channelside Plaza and actually walk around the area.

The Place needs to fill up too. I wonder if they have anything planned besides the pizza joint.

So they are going to block the view of the Red Brick pizza? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Why the hell would you let someone take away the view from Channelside or to. I would be furious. Why not just build up on the garage. Make it taller.

Hopefully this will be the start of getting some people to travel out of the Channelside Plaza and actually walk around the area.

That's going to take a while, even with all of the housing stock now in the district.

^Unfortunatley the two parking garages don't help encourage people to go deeper into the district. :ohno:

That plus the design of Channelside itself hinders curiosity of the rest of the neighborhood. Its basically a a big wall between Channelside and Channelside Dr., and then the garages. So there is a lot of poor physical planning there. I hate to knock other designers, but I really think the developers of Channelside really fell down on this one. It would have been much better to do two buildings (one east and one west) separated by a nice wide open courtyard. But the past is the past.

That plus the design of Channelside itself hinders curiosity of the rest of the neighborhood. Its basically a a big wall between Channelside and Channelside Dr., and then the garages. So there is a lot of poor physical planning there. I hate to knock other designers, but I really think the developers of Channelside really fell down on this one. It would have been much better to do two buildings (one east and one west) separated by a nice wide open courtyard. But the past is the past.

Well if it ever gets destroyed by a hurricane we'd have a second chance. :bash:

But, but, the Channelside district is supposed to be pedestrian friendly!

Sadly but somewhat understandably, there was probably not a "master plan" for the district back when the Channelside Plaza was built. This new garage is just a continuance of the disconnectedness of the district as a whole.
Ah! But if the new Rays Stadium were built in Channelside or adjacently in downtown, it would be a terrific opportunity to rethink the pedestrian/auto/transit flow in and around the district.

In all honesty, once you get more people actually living there all the bad design will basically be written off as quirks of the neighborhood.

^I'm not so sure about that. If they get the planning bad enough, hardly anybody will walk around at all.

Take retail distribution, for example... Current planning assures that retail will not cluster, and will instead be all over the neighborhood, with some peppered here and there in each project. That is going to be terrible for walkability in the longrun, because pedestrian navigation is going to be more complex than it should have been. Visitors in particular probably won't even bother looking around, because the drive into the district is underwhelming and the well developed tourist area is now going to be walled off from the rest of the neighborhood by the two port authority parking garages and T@C's bloated base.

What we should have done was require the ground floor of buildings along Channelside, Meridian and Kennedy to feature continuous retail space, while buildings fronting the neighborhood's inner streets would not necessarily require retail (they could have office or hotel space instead). Additionally, the city never should have allowed sleepy condos to be built at high-traffic locations such as the corner of Meridian and Channelside (T@C) or Kennedy and Channelside (Ventana). The city should have demanded towers with higher intensity hotel and office space instead of condos on those locations. Thankfully, T@C has a good amount of retail in its base, though its layout and accessibility is a disaster.

I think that the city and the neighborhood association need to wake up and fix things before it's too late.

Yeah, but maybe they shouldn't rely on destination retail. They should rely on things locals could use, a CVS, a dentist, an attorney, an advertising agency, things like that. The worst thing they could do is lure a Gap or Express down there only to fail within a year. Then the nay sayers could point to that an say see, I told you so. They need practical businesses, not mall retail. They could also use a few small pubs/restaurants as well. Neighborhood "joints" not themed dining or overly lavish "concepts". They need a Channelside version of Mad Dogs or Rick's from Davis Islands.

If I needed to open a physical design office, I couldn't think of a much better place.

I think another thing that should occur, that the association will need to do before it does happen, is telling the residents and owners of these condos and apartments that taller projects will start popping up in the area once we get out of this economy downfall. I don't think that many of the residents understand that they won't always have "that view" that made he/she/them buy that condo/apartment unit. If I do remember, we already had two developers scuffle due to one proposing a taller building than the others. Of course it is common sense that with a empty parcel of land right across the street, it will not stay empty forever. But some people lack just that, common sense.

The sidewalks will also need to be brought up as well. Channelside Dr. will need to be improved first before any other stretch. One concern that I noticed while walking up Channelside was that 1000 Channelside sidewalk sucks, and I mean totally blows sucks. First off, the building is basically right on the sidewalk when it comes to it. I don't know, but something about how the building meets the sidewalk doesn't fit well with me. Another thing about 1000 Channelside is the palm trees. The sidewalk isn't that big anyways and with the palm trees there, it just removes more walking space for pedestrians and bicyclists. That's one of the things I like about Ventana is that they added much needed space between their retail and the sidewalks. You don't need to worry about a door smashing you while riding your bike.

The BP needs to go too. How that thing has stayed there this long baffles me.

Agreed, I never understand why trees (and lightposts, and street signs, etc.) are put right in the middle of sidewalks, with the little grates around them. If I have to concentrate on the surface while I walk, just to avoid objects placed in the way, then is that a "walkable" route? I think not.

The BP is still there because there aren't a ton of other gas stations around. Also, They carry diesel which isn't common. Back when my wife was a kid and had a diesel VW Rabbit, that station was one of the only ones around in south Tampa that sold diesel.

The light posts is a budget thing, the really good looking lightposts are much more expensive than the standard ones. The small profile, contemporary styles just cost twice as much as the old stand-bys. Even the "ornate" style frequently used is pretty cheap because its the "traditional" post du jour. Like most things it all comes down to money.

I think they need trees along the sidewalks, they just need to force a wider sidewalk on the developers, really about 12' is necessary for a nice walkable area. That kind of width will accomodate regularly spaced trees and allow for lots of room to get around people and not have to worry about falling into traffic.

Yeah, but maybe they shouldn't rely on destination retail. They should rely on things locals could use, a CVS, a dentist, an attorney, an advertising agency, things like that. The worst thing they could do is lure a Gap or Express down there only to fail within a year. Then the nay sayers could point to that an say see, I told you so. They need practical businesses, not mall retail. They could also use a few small pubs/restaurants as well. Neighborhood "joints" not themed dining or overly lavish "concepts". They need a Channelside version of Mad Dogs or Rick's from Davis Islands.

If I needed to open a physical design office, I couldn't think of a much better place.
I didn't say anything about corporate boxes and chains from the malls lining the streets... I'm just talking about the layout of the neighborhood in general.

I thought that was the direction you were heading. But as its is, I think the general layout isn't terrible. They just need different types of retails and offices. For instance there used to be this hobby shop just south of DT Clearwater that I would make a special trip a couple times a year to go to. The place was dirty, cramped, and generally felt really old, but they stocked everything from Minichamps F1 models (the reason I went) to so many foreign plastic models it was amazing. That is the kind of thing they need. They need locals to start small businesses that are different and that fill a specialized need.

Once there are enough people there, then the smoothy shops and coffee bars will fill in. But until then they need small software and computer repair shops. Frankly with the port so close and the USF campus at the port authority someone ought to pull their finger out and think of ways to service those markets.

Having 30 shops scattered around Channelside, 3 shops to a block is no good imo. This isn't Old San Juan we're talking about here. lol... Channelside needs something more like 30 shops in 2 clusters of 15 contiguous storefronts well served by downtown's public transport.

There's a lot of "small" things that I could pick up that need fixing or should had.

The roads need to be redesigned that will allow for rain to run-off instead of gathering on the road. I remember walking down N 12th and there was so many puddles there and was like, "I don't even think it has rain in 2 days". Just unbelievable that the city hasn't encourage developers to put forward some money in fixing that issue.

Another issue I have is that N 11th isn't lined up perfectly. It may not seem to be a big issue, but just think that the stretch between Whiting and Cumberland needs to be either removed or aligned to the stretch to the north of Whiting. It seems awkward when you have perpendicular crosswalks which will happen if N 11th isn't perfectly aligned.

The people who approved The Meridian without retail should have rocks thrown at them for the rest of their lives. WTF were they thinking?

On the issue of retail, I think we should start focusing just on filling up what spaces exist at the moment. I don't agree on putting repair shops in these spaces because once the economy starts kicking again, the owners are going to be face with the decision of kicking them out for bigger and better retail shops. Massage and Spa businessed could still be successful. I think it is more that the owners aren't really looking to have people close on these retail units and the city should be meeting with them to talk to them about filling them up. AndSkypoint must be doing something that they have almost all their spaces filled up while the Place is only getting started.

^Skypoint is relatively full and is within easy walking distance for 20,000+ workers.

Besides, Drew Park has the massage and spa business wrapped up. :)

Off topic question, when is the next tour of homes in the Channelside area?

...

- FINALLY, grocery store negotiations are in an advanced stage at Grand Central -- I don't want to name the specific chain, but there's a final meeting of that company's board on August 13th about making a final decision on this new location.

...


Any new news on the grocery store?

Pilings are already in place for the new parking garage.

Another set of downtown condos set for auction, a unit at a time
By SHANNON BEHNKEN | The Tampa Tribune

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/oct/20/another-set-downtown-condos-set-auction-unit-time/news-breaking/

In an unusual move, condos and townhomes in the downtown area are set to be auctioned, one by one.

There have been relatively few downtown units auctioned so far. When they have been, they've sold for a lump sum. This auction gives regular folks a chance to buy.

Some units have minimum bids that are up to 63 percent off original sales prices.

Thirty-three condos at downtown's Ventana, at the corner of Kennedy Boulevard and Channelside Drive, and eight townhomes at Kensington Park SoHo in south Tampa are to expected to sell. The auction is set for 1 p.m., Nov. 14 at the Embassy Suites in downtown. Minimum bids range depending on the unit.

"We set minimum bids that are preposterously low," said Jon Gollinger, CEO for Boston-based Accelerated Marketing Partners. "We get the market into a room and the market sets the value."

The units to be auctioned have been turned over to a court-appointed receiver, Gollinger said. The developer of Ventana's 84 units turned the keys over to its lender in June 2008. The remaining units have already sold.

In this difficult economy, Gollinger said his business is thriving with auctions. The company conducts about 50 auctions a year around the country. Many clients are lenders trying to unload units they've taken back from developers.

"You have markets that have gone down 25 percent, so the developers are out of money," he said. "There's no such thing as a successful condo project in today's market."


Here are some examples of units to be auctioned.

A 1,381 square-foot condo at Ventana has a minimum bid of $175,000. Its last asking price: $473,100.

A 3-bedroom, 2-bath townhome in Kensington has a minimum bid of $275,000. Its last asking price was $499,000.

Last year, 171 Channelside condos were sold at auction for $21.9 million. The buyer paid about $128,000 each for units that originally sold for about $200,000 to $1 million.

- FINALLY, grocery store negotiations are in an advanced stage at Grand Central -- I don't want to name the specific chain, but there's a final meeting of that company's board on August 13th about making a final decision on this new location.
Since it's been more than 2 months after the meeting, wouldn't mind spilling the beans on who it was?

Since it's been more than 2 months after the meeting, wouldn't mind spilling the beans on who it was?

Sure, since it sounds like the news is out there (UCTampa.com, lots of realtors sites, etc.). It's SweetBay. Not my first choice (would love a Trader Joe's or Publix GreenWise) but SweetBay is fine. They'll also have a liquor store attached. Not sure of the timing now but talks are still underway, and SweetBay officials have been talking to business owners around here.

The dry cleaners have just started construction on the Madison side of the West Building. Powerhouse has completed its expansion (along Kennedy Blvd.) and are now planning for a third expansion to take up one of the loading dock spaces along Madison.

No word on what's happening with Wine Design's bar, so I'll pop down and talk to them this week. As far as I know, its still a go, though there's no way they'll be done by January now.

The owner of Monstah Lobstah is planning to open a restaurant -- different from Monstah Lobstah. Think more of a local sports bar similar to Beef O'Brady's (but nicer).

Also, if y'all didn't know, Joffrey's Coffee closed (but are moving to the old Starbucks at Centro Ybor) and Red Brick Pizza shut down, with a sign that says "Moving to New Location". No idea where. The art place that used to be in the courtyard at Channelside has moved into the old Joffrey's Coffee place.

Taverna Opa is under construction with signs up so I'd imagine they'd be open by the New Year.

Thanks for the update. Having a Sweetbay there will be great. Trader Joe's would have been great, but I suppose we will take what we can get there right now. Plus the new Sweetbay stores are very nicely built - nothing like the old Kash and Karry stores.

Steve

Thanks for the update. Having a Sweetbay there will be great. Trader Joe's would have been great, but I suppose we will take what we can get there right now. Plus the new Sweetbay stores are very nicely built - nothing like the old Kash and Karry stores.

Steve

I agree, the newer Sweetbay stores look much more nicer. The one on Fowler looks ancient and the South Tampa store, not that much further behind, though the remodel/conversion was much, much better than Fowler.

I don't shop at Sweet Bay at all, since it is foreign owned. I pretty much stick to Publix these days, with the occasional jaunt into Whole Foods and Wal-Mart for certain things.

However, it will be great for residents of downtown to have another option for a grocery store. And it will be especially sweet for those who can easily walk to the store... I wish I could do that!

^^
And it will give Publix on BayShore & the GreenWise Market a good run for their money. Just like the South Tampa WalMart will give Britton and Gandy Publixes a good run for their money as well. Personally, I'm sick of Publix's high prices.

However, it will be great for residents of downtown to have another option for a grocery store. And it will be especially sweet for those who can easily walk to the store... I wish I could do that!

Trust me, all of us down here have been anxious for this to happen for almost 3 years now -- once we get a grocery store and a "neighborhood" pub, we'll never leave Channelside ;)

Seriously, I think SweetBay could do great. I hate the Publix on Bayshore so I usually drive further to the SweetBay or the Publix Greenwise in Hyde Park -- not a long drive but at least 10 minutes. The SweetBay here could get:

95% of Channelside residents
65% of Ybor City residents (the North side might find the SweetBay on Nebraska more convenient, so there could be some cannibalization)
50% of Harbour Island residents (pretty easy to pop down Meridian versus driving through downtown to Publix Bayshore)
50% of Downtown Tampa residents (though the Publix Bayshore is just as convenient for the Skypoint/Element people)

... and then you have all of the commuters driving through, so if there's convenient parking, it's easy grocery shopping on the way home from work.

.. so if there's convenient parking, it's easy grocery shopping on the way home from work.

The parking situation at Grand Central for a grocery store has actually concerned me. I do not think there are enough parking spots between Grand Central and Ventana to support all the customers. That means that some customer would need to park in the parking garage. However, there's no convenient escalator (or large elevator) to transport the shopping carts of groceries into the parking garage.

I've been thinking about that recently. It seems that grocery chain would be a good thing for Channelside at the moment, but there is problems with Grand Central in being the location. Shouldn't we just wait for a new development to include everything that would be needed to handle a grocery store? Maybe the Martin if that ever takes to fruitation? Just seems that it is one of the things that I rant about. If there is a situation, many just rush to a easy fix which would bite us in the arse down the road.

Huh? I don't follow your logic. How would a grocery store in a tentatively planned project adjacent to Grand Central be of more benefit than one going into Grand Central next year?

I would guess that the Sweetbay people behind the planning of this store have put a lot of thought into the current and/or proposed parking arrangements at Grand Central before moving forward with any plans to open up a store at that location.

Kentski, you joke about "never leaving Channelside." There's actually an ounce of truth to that. Now that I'm working out at Powerhouse, I no longer make daily trips to Howard Ave / Hyde Park Village. A grocery store would eliminate the need to drive to Bayshore Publix or Hyde Park Sweetbay. The planned park on 12th and Washington will be utilized daily with my dog. The dry cleaners will eliminate another need for short car trips, and the other proposed amenities you mention will just further enhance the neighborhood's "livability" factor.

2010 could be a very big year for the Channelside area! :banana:

Huh? I don't follow your logic. How would a grocery store in a tentatively planned project adjacent to Grand Central be of more benefit than one going into Grand Central next year?

I would guess that the Sweetbay people behind the planning of this store have put a lot of thought into the current and/or proposed parking arrangements at Grand Central before moving forward with any plans to open up a store at that location.

Kentski, you joke about "never leaving Channelside." There's actually an ounce of truth to that. Now that I'm working out at Powerhouse, I no longer make daily trips to Howard Ave / Hyde Park Village. A grocery store would eliminate the need to drive to Bayshore Publix or Hyde Park Sweetbay. The planned park on 12th and Washington will be utilized daily with my dog. The dry cleaners will eliminate another need for short car trips, and the other proposed amenities you mention will just further enhance the neighborhood's "livability" factor.

2010 could be a very big year for the Channelside area! :banana:
I'm just saying that if they would build the Sweetbay in the Martin, then they could adress the issues of parking, elevators to handle the carts, and traffic from the store. If Grand Central has plans for the store, then I give them all the reason to put the store in. But I can't see how the building can handle both residents, members at the Powerhouse Gym, other retailers, and now a Sweetbay.

They should just have electric cars or golf carts for rent.

I'm just saying that if they would build the Sweetbay in the Martin, then they could adress the issues of parking, elevators to handle the carts, and traffic from the store.

I don't know where these "issues" are coming from. Grand Central was planned for stores like this -- there is 127,000 square feet of retail available, with "Big Box opportunities" available (according to their website). They've planned for a grocery store from the inception.

I just went and counted the number of outdoor spaces that are available between Ventana and Grand Central East - 47 spaces there. My understanding is that there will be an elevator (would LOVE to have that escalator at Publix GreenWise) that only serves the grocery store, from the first floor to the third floor of the parking garage. I would imagine that they eventually will dedicate the North part of the 3rd Floor of the garage to retail patrons -- makes sense, since everyone else turns left from there to park. I'm just wondering what they'll do with all of the carts, but GreenWise doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Also, with Madison (not Kennedy) being the entrance to the outdoor parking, I'd imagine that street becoming a lot busier and its not easy to drive right now.

And FL Hawk, I definitely agree -- I find myself staying within Channelside a lot more lately, with trips out to Ybor (better restaurants) and Downtown (for the Friday Market or to go to the bank). Thinking about what I really need on a daily or weekly basis:

Grocery Store - coming here
Wine Store - Wine Design at Channelside
Liquor Store - coming here
Bank - MISSING (have to go downtown)
Post Office - MISSING (have to go downtown or to Ybor)
Gym - Powerhouse Gym
Neighborhood/Sports Bar - MISSING (have to go downtown or to Ybor; Hooter's or Bennigan's don't cut it)
Movie Theater - Channelside, Ybor, and Tampa Theater
Real Theater - coming here (StageWorks)
Good Restaurants - Mixed (Ybor still kills us, and I drive to Hyde Park quite often)
Tourist Attractions for Visitors - Lots here (aquarium, History Museum, St. Pete Times Forum, etc.)

So we're ALMOST there but, as with you, I'm very psyched with what 2010 is going to bring.

kentski -

Have some half-formed thoughts on your "wants list" though they would require some work from the commercial leasing interests at Channelside.

Sweet Bay is closing stores here in Sarasota. I begin to doubt their survival status. If Publix has got a boutique-scale business model ready, they'd be a good match for your location.

Similar problem with banks - it's a bit hard to find retail banking not exposed to commercial real estate or development downside risk. That's not easy to research, but the area doesn't need a new banking facility which subsequently fails or closes. Nor do you want to have some food emporium open and then close.

You probably could get an automated Post Office lobby and a box section if you're willing to persevere. Bureaucracy.

The real challenge will be to concentrate some very strong players so that the entire enterprise stands a good chance in the event we suffer any further economic insults. We may not, of course, but it's not reasonable to depend on better days with so much at stake.

The usual plan of only a few years ago was to make room for familiar, brand-name retail. I think now we look for everyday needs to be addressed and, once those are met, consider what would be pleasant, nice or fun to have. Not sure developers and their agents have quite turned that corner. The survivors will, probably.

My understanding is that there will be an elevator (would LOVE to have that escalator at Publix GreenWise) that only serves the grocery store, from the first floor to the third floor of the parking garage.

Correct....there are two elevators on the east side of the east building that are intended to serve the grocery store.....and most of the parking on the 3rd and 4th floors is intended to serve the retail spaces. The small parking lot on the east side of the building is also for grocery store customers.....the space has always been planned for a grocery store at least since 2004......:)

Like I said, if Grand Central can handle the grocery store, all power to them. Certainly I would want one somewhere in my neighborhood like Channelside.

Correct....there are two elevators on the east side of the east building that are intended to serve the grocery store.....

I live in the East Building of Grand Central (on the East Side of the building) and, currently, there is only ONE elevator on the East Side of the East Building, which is Elevator C. Now, there ARE two elevators on the West Side of the East building -- Elevators A and B.

The existing Elevator on the East Side of the East Building is not big enough to transport people AND shopping carts up to the third and fourth floors. So, are they planning to somehow install a second elevator shaft on the East Side of the East Building to handle the grocery store customers?

I live in the East Building of Grand Central (on the East Side of the building) and, currently, there is only ONE elevator on the East Side of the East Building, which is Elevator C. Now, there ARE two elevators on the West Side of the East building -- Elevators A and B.

The existing Elevator on the East Side of the East Building is not big enough to transport people AND shopping carts up to the third and fourth floors. So, are they planning to somehow install a second elevator shaft on the East Side of the East Building to handle the grocery store customers?

There are actually two elevators over there as well (I'm in the same building) but it was my understanding (a long time back) that there would be separate elevators for the grocery store. Even with the existing two elevators, there will be problems with the carts, additional people, etc. from the grocery store -- they're regular sized elevator shafts and maybe two people with carts could fit in one shaft at once.

Just got back from Channelside and Wine Design's Bar is now official -- they begin the build-out next week (I asked them if it was okay to "tell my friends" and they said no problem). They're taking two portions of the Northwest side of the East building (I'll need to check the retail layout that's on the website to see exactly how big that is) and are expecting to open late February/early March. The owner mentioned that they're going before the "Liquor Board" in early February and I didn't think to ask -- originally, they said 30 beers on tap along with a strong selection of wine and a small kitchen, but it could be that it might be a full bar now. I'll remember to ask next time. But at least we have our first official bar at this end of Channelside!

If you go to the retail plans for Grand Central:

http://www.notthesuburbs.com/pdf/retail/site_plan.pdf

The businesses that are going in (or are already here) are:

Powerhouse Gym: 11-W, 12-W, and 13-W
Dry Cleaners: 5-W
Grocery Store: 1-E
Wine Design: 12-E and 13-E

You'll also see the space for StageWorks in the West Building ... as far as I understand, they're still planning to open in March.

^Great info man... Thanks on gathering it up and posting it.

There are actually two elevators over there as well (I'm in the same building)...



Really? I had no idea that a second elevator was located on the east side of the east building. I tried to locate it using the .pdf map you posted of GC, but I don't see it on the map. Can you tell me (by looking at the marked up map below) specifically where the second elevator is on the "East Side" of the east building?


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t129/tampaguy75/EastSideofGC.jpg

Really? I had no idea that a second elevator was located on the east side of the east building. I tried to locate it using the .pdf map you posted of GC, but I don't see it on the map. Can you tell me (by looking at the marked up map below) specifically where the second elevator is on the "East Side" of the east building?

Yes, there are *two* elevators in the C corridor (easily shown in that .PDF as well) ... as there are two elevators each in the A and B corridors. Six elevators total in the East Building.

Lol! Ok, I was interpretting each "elevator shaft" (designated as "a", "b", or "c") as one elevator, even though there are essentially two lifts, side-by-side.

If they use up the entire space allotted at 1-E (~38K sq ft), it looks like the Grand Central Sweetbay will be larger than the Publix on Bayshore (~27K sq ft).

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8568/mike026.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1391/mike025.jpg

Grrr, I've been down to Channelside several times now since construction of that garage began and man, does it piss me off. I'm still floored that a single-use parking garage is being built there. Seriously, I think that something is going to have to be done to prevent our 'leaders' from being this stupid in the future.

I agree with you 100% Jason. They act as if the entire Channelside area is literally the immediate area within the Channelside entertainment complex in the middle of the clubs. How shortsighted to continue to choke off this complex instead of expanding the entertainment area by including storefronts and retail areas for the future. Look at Miami's Coconut Grove and it's success...it expanded further out and always included retail. Not one complex surrounded by parking garages and lots.

Maybe this will reduce the cost of parking and the cost the complex has to pay the Port Authority. They are getting screwed, they'd almost be better off to build their own parking garage.

The Port wants revenue . . . period

I was curious if anyone knew how the Ventana auction went, yesterday (Saturday, the 14th). Also, I noticed a sign out front of the Slade condos that went up a couple days ago advertising new pricing for the condos... the 1 bedrooms are now starting at 145k.

I was curious if anyone knew how the Ventana auction went, yesterday (Saturday, the 14th). Also, I noticed a sign out front of the Slade condos that went up a couple days ago advertising new pricing for the condos... the 1 bedrooms are now starting at 145k.

Slade also has a commercial on tv. I sat down to watch the news and it came on 3 times in 30 minutes.

Port could sue Channelside owner over dispute next month
By Steve Huettel, Times Staff Writer
Posted: Nov 17, 2009 12:17 PM

The owner of Tampa's Channelside entertainment complex appears headed for a showdown with its landlord, the Tampa Port Authority. The authority's dispute with Channelside Bay Mall LLC over more than $250,000 in overdue bills and lax oversight of nightclubs should come to a head next month, port counsel Charles Klug told board members Tuesday. Channelside failed to pay the port authority about $200,000 in reimbursements for discounted customer parking, plus other bills, the agency says. Also, Tampa fire marshals have written up Channelside businesses for not keeping access clear for emergency crews. If Channelside LLC, owned by New York real estate dealmaker Ben Ashkenazy, fails to resolve the dispute, the port authority could terminate its lease on the land under the complex as soon as next month, Klug said.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/port-could-sue-channelside-owner-over-dispute-next-month/1052326

^^
Yet another "mega-entertainment" complex going down the drain. Do you think we'll have the next Baywalk fiasco ensuing?

Anyone have info on the new Irish Pub and Grill, and Tavernera Opa expected to be open this month at Channelside?

^^
Yet another "mega-entertainment" complex going down the drain. Do you think we'll have the next Baywalk fiasco ensuing?
Doubt it. It seems it could be a easy conversation if the owner, Port Authority, and the city sat down and talked. Baywalk was like each party was all over the place.

Anyone have info on the new Irish Pub and Grill, and Tavernera Opa expected to be open this month at Channelside?

According to the owner of Taverna Opa, who I met at Splitsville, says the place will be open by December 1st, though I don't see that happening based on what's left to do. I'd say more toward New Years.

The sign out in from of the Irish Pub (I think its called Irish 31) says "Opening February 2010".

Bennigans is adding a dance floor, More flat screen T.V.'s, Wii video gaming system and a dj after 10 o' clock starting early december or later this month.

^Cool.