All you get 24 hours anywhere downtown is Walgreen's, who doesn't wanna go to walgreen's at 4 am? :lol:

This is B.S. There are multiple places to party in Brickell at 4 am. The you can stop by La Lupita or Latin American Cafe to grab something to eat before going to bed. What else are you looking to do at 4 am other than going out to the club and eating????

Then downtown is home to the only 24 hour club district where Club Space is at. Why do people continue to bash downtown when they obviously don't live downtown.

Why do people continue to bash downtown when they obviously don't live downtown.They are usually the only people that ever do.

sub·ur·bia noun \sə-ˈbər-bē-ə\
Definition of SUBURBIA (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suburbia)
1: the suburbs of a city
2: people who live in the suburbs
3: suburban life

Let's try this out...
1. BRICKELL = the suburbs of a city WITH TALL BUILDINGS
2. BRICKELL = people who live in the suburbs WITH TALL BUILDINGS
3. BRICKELL = suburban life WITH TALL BUILDINGS

I'm all out of ways to explain this, and my face is blue. Brickell has nothing to do with suburbia.

I explained it well... it has nothing to do with suburbian lifestyle.

Downtown Miami / Brickell is awesome. By far the most cultural happening spot in South Florida. From the arts and entertainment to employment, public transit, and nearby conveniences, it rocks. Been living here 2 years and love it. Below are a couple pics I took the last few weeks. :)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6131/5967545355_f9cd5a6bec.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6131/5967545355_f9cd5a6bec.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6023/5968810580_d502caa172.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6023/5968810580_d502caa172.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5971627817_9d0f263bdc.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5971627817_9d0f263bdc.jpg

This is B.S. There are multiple places to party in Brickell at 4 am. The you can stop by La Lupita or Latin American Cafe to grab something to eat before going to bed. What else are you looking to do at 4 am other than going out to the club and eating????.

La Lupita is only open late weekends.

is the kanya cuban cafe next to macys open yet?

is the kanya cuban cafe next to macys open yet?

Not yet, I think going to open next months.

Not yet, I think going to open next months.
yah i walked by it today they put up the logo on top of the building and construction is going on it was supposed to open in may but....typical Miami nothing opens on time......they're also opening a new 7 eleven across the street from there.

La Lupita is only open late weekends.

Since when did Thursday night become the weekend? And there still open to midnight on the rest of the weekday nights.

Don't get me wrong Brickell/Downtown is by no means South Beach when it comes to late night options. But comparing it to Hialeah because there's a Taco Bell (and that's about it) open late is pretty ridiculous.

Brickell is NOT South Beach and shouldn't aspire to be. South Beach caters towards tourist and Brickell caters towards professionals. Which is why Brickell is mainly active Thurs - Sat. We can slack of Friday so Thur night is a good night to go out. We don't have to work Sat or Sun so Fri night and Sat night are also good. And then Sun we have to sober up to be ready to work on Mon.

Same with the hotels. Brickell hotels are popular among business professionals here attending meetings and it looks bad if you have a meeting downtown but your hotel is on South Beach. They come during the week can relax a little more during the weekend and are flying out on Sun and ready for work in their hometown Mon morning.

^^ There's actually a lot of places open late in Hialeah. Chico's Restaurant and Rey's Pizza are both open 24 hours, then Los Verdes and Los Perros are two Colombian restaurants in the area that are open late for the party crowd coming back from the clubs at the Beach or Downtown. There are also food trucks catering to the same crowd at that time.
You could also count nearly every fast food chain that has a 24 hour location in Hialeah. (Taco Bell, McDonald's, Wendy's, Checkers, etc..)

I'm in no way comparing Hialeah to Brickell.

Listen. The reason I bring up the 24h thing is because I worked graveyard shift for 3 years of my life when I was living in Miami a couple of years ago. On my days off, I would still have the same "hours." And I would be awake at in the middle of the night on a normal weekday. I would do my grocery shopping at Walmart at 3am. Also, I would go to clubs on weekdays or weekends, whenever I had a day off, and would be starving when I would get out between 4 to 6am. My shift ended at 7am, so a lot of times I wanted to eat "dinner" but most places won't even open for breakfast until 9am.

And you know what, I was not alone. There were other people, police officers, hospital workers, etc. that also had "odd shifts" who would go to these 24 hour places. I think things that are open 24 hours shows that it is a true community of all kinds of different people working around the clock, a true "city that never sleeps." Not a Potemkin village of flashy condos and office buildings that are only open 9 to 5, whose only residents are snowbirds and a handful of "upper management" types. Everyone else is that office buildings drives back to Miami Shores or Ft. Lauderdale or Kendall or wherever else they came from.

That's why there's no movie theater. That's why there's no middle schools or high schools. The closest high school is in Overtown [Booker T. Washington] and the closest middle school is in Coral Gables [Shenandoah]. Because not enough people actually live there.
You need more than shops and restaurants to have a community.

^^ There's actually a lot of places open late in Hialeah. Chico's Restaurant and Rey's Pizza are both open 24 hours, then Los Verdes and Los Perros are two Colombian restaurants in the area that are open late for the party crowd coming back from the clubs at the Beach or Downtown. There are also food trucks catering to the same crowd at that time.
You could also count nearly every fast food chain that has a 24 hour location in Hialeah. (Taco Bell, McDonald's, Wendy's, Checkers, etc..)

I'm in no way comparing Hialeah to Brickell.

Thats true, Chicos's is always packed at night.

Also posted on the PAC district thread due to Sonesta update. Here mostly news on NY Applestore looking bank in brickell:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/22/2331940/building-inspired-by-apple-store.html

^^ There's actually a lot of places open late in Hialeah. Chico's Restaurant and Rey's Pizza are both open 24 hours, then Los Verdes and Los Perros are two Colombian restaurants in the area that are open late for the party crowd coming back from the clubs at the Beach or Downtown. There are also food trucks catering to the same crowd at that time.
You could also count nearly every fast food chain that has a 24 hour location in Hialeah. (Taco Bell, McDonald's, Wendy's, Checkers, etc..)

I'm in no way comparing Hialeah to Brickell.

Again you seem to be highlighting nothing but food places. Let's be honest the only reason any of those establishments are open late is because of the people coming back home from places like Brickell.

When you work in Brickell at a bank, law firm, broker, etc. you can't go out and eat at 5 am on Wednesday. But when the weekend does come there is more to do late night than just eat.

Who ever said that Brickell is a "city that never sleeps"?
One very ill informed person said that Brickell = Tall Buildings and a couple of people that don't live in Brickell and didn't even know where the boundries of Brickell agreed. No big deal...we are all learning here.

Now that we are all educated on the boundries (and the dictionary definition of Suburbia :)) it is clear that Brickell is not anything like a suburb.

Again you seem to be highlighting nothing but food places. Let's be honest the only reason any of those establishments are open late is because of the people coming back home from places like Brickell.

Yup, exactly what I said.

Yup, exactly what I said.

Yeah I see that now. I was combining your argument with mechanesthesia. I was originally arguing with mech who was clearly comparing Hialeah with Brickell.

Honestly, downtown has a long way to go. I find it ridiculous that Hialeah has tons of 24 hour stores/fast food/restaurants, and you're lucky to find something open in downtown after 10. And forget about Sundays!

I remember sometimes I would go to the clubs and would have to drive all the way to Hialeah just to get some food! Even their Taco Bell [a couple of years ago] closed at 5am and two in Hialeah were 24 hours!
[Well I know Hialeah is far, but that's where I used to live. I know Little Havana/Allapatah has some food places open late that are closer, but not that close].

Another good example is Aventura. That place is literally nothing but huge condos... yet everything closes ridiculously early! I remember going for a joyride and we stopped by Aventura and everything was closed! IT was like 9pm on a weekend! Luckily Hialeah saved us from that :)

Hialeah saved you??? Right now it's past 10pm and Brickell is jumping, with real things to do other than becoming obese. If I asked a client to meet me for drinks in Hialeah they would laugh in my face.

Listen. The reason I bring up the 24h thing is because I worked graveyard shift for 3 years of my life when I was living in Miami a couple of years ago. On my days off, I would still have the same "hours." And I would be awake at in the middle of the night on a normal weekday. I would do my grocery shopping at Walmart at 3am. Also, I would go to clubs on weekdays or weekends, whenever I had a day off, and would be starving when I would get out between 4 to 6am. My shift ended at 7am, so a lot of times I wanted to eat "dinner" but most places won't even open for breakfast until 9am.

And you know what, I was not alone. There were other people, police officers, hospital workers, etc. that also had "odd shifts" who would go to these 24 hour places. I think things that are open 24 hours shows that it is a true community of all kinds of different people working around the clock, a true "city that never sleeps." Not a Potemkin village of flashy condos and office buildings that are only open 9 to 5, whose only residents are snowbirds and a handful of "upper management" types. Everyone else is that office buildings drives back to Miami Shores or Ft. Lauderdale or Kendall or wherever else they came from.

That's why there's no movie theater. That's why there's no middle schools or high schools. The closest high school is in Overtown [Booker T. Washington] and the closest middle school is in Coral Gables [Shenandoah]. Because not enough people actually live there.
You need more than shops and restaurants to have a community.

And there are a lot of you problems. In Brickell we're professionals so we don't work the graveyard shift. And it's funny that you complain about movie theaters when there are 3 of them on the way. And Brickell isn't full of snowbirds. You clearly are writing about things that you are ignorant about.

Which is why you're changing the subject. What do schools have to do with being 24hr city. There aren't many schools in Brickell because the population growth just happened recently and the main residents are younger professionals sans kids. As the population grows so will the amenities to support that population.

Yeah I see that now. I was combining your argument with mechanesthesia. I was originally arguing with mech who was clearly comparing Hialeah with Brickell.

Hialeah saved you??? Right now it's past 10pm and Brickell is jumping, with real things to do other than becoming obese. If I asked a client to meet me for drinks in Hialeah they would laugh in my face.

And there are a lot of you problems. In Brickell we're professionals so we don't work the graveyard shift. And it's funny that you complain about movie theaters when there are 3 of them on the way. And Brickell isn't full of snowbirds. You clearly are writing about things that you are ignorant about.

Which is why you're changing the subject. What do schools have to do with being 24hr city. There aren't many schools in Brickell because the population growth just happened recently and the main residents are younger professionals sans kids. As the population grows so will the amenities to support that population.

Don't give me that haughty, elitist drivel. Many people in the medical field work graveyard shift and are also professionals.

Point being that downtown still has a long way to go before it can actually be a "community" with people that actually live there and have families. Rather than some very new and socially underdeveloped area. There needs to be more diversity for it to be successful, rather than exclusively cater to 9 to 5 office workers.

And 10 pm is not late, those are normal business hours for restaurants.

Obviously if you're meeting a "client" you would want to impress them by taking them somewhere flashy like Brickell, so that's completely irrelevant.

And yes, we're all aware that the theaters are on the way, but why did it take so long?

We need to accept that downtown is in a transitional phase and still has a work to do before it becomes a real community.

Downtown on a Sunday morning is dead.

Honestly, downtown has a long way to go. I find it ridiculous that Hialeah has tons of 24 hour stores/fast food/restaurants, and you're lucky to find something open in downtown after 10. And forget about Sundays!

I remember sometimes I would go to the clubs and would have to drive all the way to Hialeah just to get some food! Even their Taco Bell [a couple of years ago] closed at 5am and two in Hialeah were 24 hours!
[Well I know Hialeah is far, but that's where I used to live. I know Little Havana/Allapatah has some food places open late that are closer, but not that close].

Another good example is Aventura. That place is literally nothing but huge condos... yet everything closes ridiculously early! I remember going for a joyride and we stopped by Aventura and everything was closed! IT was like 9pm on a weekend! Luckily Hialeah saved us from that :)

When I lived in Aventura...I used to go to the "Flash Dinner" I think that is the name of the place....in Hallandale....is not in Aventura...but c'mon...everybody knows where this place is...is open 24hours...just across from the Gulf-Stream Casino....just across from the Miami-Dade/Broward county line....I still go to this place when I am hungry and I don't feel like driving to South Beach.

I want to move to Brickell or downtown eventually after I pay down some of my loans. But I want to make sure that I have everything that I need there and that I don't have to drive to the "bad part" of town or all the way to Coconut Grove for something.

Does anyone know what the story is with the SW corner of Brickell & Coral Way (SW 13 St)?? It's been owned by a Dutch company for around 30 years and other than the main office for Fortune, the site seems very underutilized for such a prime corner.

Don't give me that haughty, elitist drivel. Many people in the medical field work graveyard shift and are also professionals.

Point being that downtown still has a long way to go before it can actually be a "community" with people that actually live there and have families. Rather than some very new and socially underdeveloped area. There needs to be more diversity for it to be successful, rather than exclusively cater to 9 to 5 office workers.

And 10 pm is not late, those are normal business hours for restaurants.

Obviously if you're meeting a "client" you would want to impress them by taking them somewhere flashy like Brickell, so that's completely irrelevant.

And yes, we're all aware that the theaters are on the way, but why did it take so long?

We need to accept that downtown is in a transitional phase and still has a work to do before it becomes a real community.

Downtown on a Sunday morning is dead.

I guess I'll just be elitist for having higher standards. I don't take them to Brickell because it's flashy, its because its respectable. I'd also take them to South Beach, Coral Gables, Coconut Grove and even Midtown. I wouldn't take them to Hialeah because neither of us would go there even if we weren't meeting to discuss business.

As far as families you should come here and see. There are plenty of families in my building. I have a view of the pool deck and there are kids here playing all the time. And come here during the day and you see plenty of people pushing strollers.

And it doesn't just cater to 9 to 5 officers workers. I've lived in cities like that and they are dead by 6 pm. And you keep wanting to mix Brickell and Downtown when they are worlds apart. Downtown is dead on Sunday morning where as Brickell is full of people riding bicycles on Sunday morning.

If Brickell stayed exactly as it is right now for the next 10 years I'd still choose to live in this community over Hialeah. So while I agree that its getting better I disagree that its already a very enjoyable community to live in.

I mean most of you argument is ridiculous. You're telling me that Hialeah is a walkable community where you can walk to the movie theater???? Like driving to Coconut grove is far. You have to get in your car to go to the movies in Hialeah just the same as Brickell. It takes me 15 min to drive to Paragon. Its going to take the majority of Hialeah residents at least that long to drive to a movie theater as well, and it probably isn't as nice. Then once you come home after the movies you can walk to the bar, or to the restaurant or to the grocery store whereas in Hialeah you cant. Then add the fact that in a year or so I'll be able to walk while the people in Hialeah will never have that.

It seems the only real problem you have with Brickell is that you can't afford to live here. And I'm not just being facetious because unless they starting building rental buildings in the area it is going to start to become unaffordable to a lot of people.

I guess I'll just be elitist for having higher standards. I don't take them to Brickell because it's flashy, its because its respectable. I'd also take them to South Beach, Coral Gables, Coconut Grove and even Midtown. I wouldn't take them to Hialeah because neither of us would go there even if we weren't meeting to discuss business.

As far as families you should come here and see. There are plenty of families in my building. I have a view of the pool deck and there are kids here playing all the time. And come here during the day and you see plenty of people pushing strollers.

And it doesn't just cater to 9 to 5 officers workers. I've lived in cities like that and they are dead by 6 pm. And you keep wanting to mix Brickell and Downtown when they are worlds apart. Downtown is dead on Sunday morning where as Brickell is full of people riding bicycles on Sunday morning.

If Brickell stayed exactly as it is right now for the next 10 years I'd still choose to live in this community over Hialeah. So while I agree that its getting better I disagree that its already a very enjoyable community to live in.

I mean most of you argument is ridiculous. You're telling me that Hialeah is a walkable community where you can walk to the movie theater???? Like driving to Coconut grove is far. You have to get in your car to go to the movies in Hialeah just the same as Brickell. It takes me 15 min to drive to Paragon. Its going to take the majority of Hialeah residents at least that long to drive to a movie theater as well, and it probably isn't as nice. Then once you come home after the movies you can walk to the bar, or to the restaurant or to the grocery store whereas in Hialeah you cant. Then add the fact that in a year or so I'll be able to walk while the people in Hialeah will never have that.

It seems the only real problem you have with Brickell is that you can't afford to live here. And I'm not just being facetious because unless they starting building rental buildings in the area it is going to start to become unaffordable to a lot of people.

Hialeah: That place by the Palmetto where obese middle class idiots eat all night. Bring it down a notch, will ya? When I move back to Miami, I plan on moving to the Downtown/Brickell area too, Hialeah isn't the best place in the world. But I can actually go to a much nicer theater in 15 minutes from Hialeah than in the Grove, just sayin'.

Hialeah: That place by the Palmetto where obese middle class idiots eat all night. Bring it down a notch, will ya? When I move back to Miami, I plan on moving to the Downtown/Brickell area too, Hialeah isn't the best place in the world. But I can actually go to a much nicer theater in 15 minutes from Hialeah than in the Grove, just sayin'.

Care to elaborate, which movie theater is that. And while you at it could you please point out where anyone would walk in Hialeah. And I'm not talking about people who have no choice but to walk, I'm talking about where people choose to walk, especially at night.

Why do you keep bringing up walking? Nobody said Hialeah has a better urban environment or is a better place to live. Mechanesthesia just thinks Brickell has no place to eat after midnight and he's probably right, not a big deal. I wouldn't go as far as he has with his complaints about a "community" or whatever, but even then he wasn't using Hialeah as some exemplary place. Comparing Hialeah to Brickell is ridiculous, really. He brought up Hialeah, but you've just run with it to show your haughty attitude.
I agree with everything you've said about Brickell. There's no doubt Brickell will have more to offer soon. But I think with the nightlife crowd and booming residential population, Brickell should already have more options.

Btw, the theater is CineBistro in Doral. Paragon is more comparable to the Cobb theater in Miami Lakes (less than 10 minutes away).

Why do you keep bringing up walking? Nobody said Hialeah has a better urban environment or is a better place to live. Mechanesthesia just thinks Brickell has no place to eat after midnight and he's probably right, not a big deal. I wouldn't go as far as he has with his complaints about a "community" or whatever, but even then he wasn't using Hialeah as some exemplary place. Comparing Hialeah to Brickell is ridiculous, really. He brought up Hialeah, but you've just run with it to show your haughty attitude.
I agree with everything you've said about Brickell. There's no doubt Brickell will have more to offer soon. But I think with the nightlife crowd and booming residential population, Brickell should already have more options.

Btw, the theater is CineBistro in Doral. Paragon is more comparable to the Cobb theater in Miami Lakes (less than 10 minutes away).

Because I think its funny that he's talking about how Brickell has to improve as compared to Hialeah and he is pointing out things like movie theaters but yet the movie theaters that are being highlighted are NOT in Hialeah. If you have to get in your car and drive then really who cares what neighborhood its in as long as its close. The 5 minutes you save going to Cobb as compared to me going to Paragon somehow makes it a real community. Get the heck out of here.

We both agree comparing Brickell to Hialeah is ridiculous. And maybe I am coming off a bit "haughty" in this thread but I'm tired of people throwing cheap shots at Brickell. You're from Hialeah and that's cool. I'm not from the best place either. But lets be real the only people who live in Hialeah are people that are from Hialeah or people who cant afford to live somewhere else. I've never met someone who chose to live there if given the choice. I mean seriously, when you live in Hialeah and your talking about moving to Brickell and making comments about how worried that you would have to drive to the "bad part" of town or "all the way to Coconut Grove" that's just silly talk. Because as you pointed out in Hialeah you have to drive "all the way" to Miami Lakes.

And by the way google says that from the center of Hialeah (E. 39th st and E. 2nd ave) its 7 miles or 15 minutes to Cobb. But from Brickell to Paragon its 4.8 miles or 9 minutes.

Hialeah is much larger than Brickell. Driving from Brickell to Coconut Grove would be like driving from two different places in Hialeah. Excluding all the areas close to Brickell just because they aren't called Brickell is ignorant. Expecially when that's on of the main reasons people enjoy living here. The central location.

The time it takes many people to get from their house to Cobb I can get to South Beach.

And not to mention the residential areas of Hialeah are DEAD at night. Which is why I bring up walking. I can walk from my condo to the bar, restaurant, grocery store, etc. So it's not a real fair comparison to say that Hialeah is 24hrs when you have to drive to get to something that is 24hrs. Once you're in the car driving for 10 minutes who cares what neighborhood your in.

So what if everything in Brickell closes at 5pm (let's say)? Brickell is a residential/ business neighborhood, not an entertainment hood, yet. You want something like Akhibara or South Beach? then just wait, it's just a matter of time they built that MET SQUARE project and BRICKELL CITICENTRE.

We both agree comparing Brickell to Hialeah is ridiculous. And maybe I am coming off a bit "haughty" in this thread but I'm tired of people throwing cheap shots at Brickell. You're from Hialeah and that's cool. I'm not from the best place either. But lets be real the only people who live in Hialeah are people that are from Hialeah or people who cant afford to live somewhere else. I've never met someone who chose to live there if given the choice. I mean seriously, when you live in Hialeah and your talking about moving to Brickell and making comments about how worried that you would have to drive to the "bad part" of town or "all the way to Coconut Grove" that's just silly talk. Because as you pointed out in Hialeah you have to drive "all the way" to Miami Lakes.

Lets just drop Hialeah. I can't seriously can't stretch this out more. :lol:
I'm not even from or currently live in Hialeah. I created this account when I had just moved down to Miami and thought it was smart to represent where I was living. My family chose to live there because my dad got a job in the area. They still live there in a really nice, quiet, upper middle class neighborhood.

But back to Brickell, I agree that it's been getting weird cheap shots on this forum lately. I tend to just roll my eyes at them. :dunno:

So....I hope this is the end of the Hialeah VS Brickell quarrel....let's move on people....

Jeez, this is a longer-running debate than "Ginger or Mary Ann ?"

Ok, adding to this hialeah talk

Brickell, Y U NO BE UP THE 6PM ???

heheeh

Ok, adding to this hialeah talk

Brickell, Y U NO BE UP THE 6PM ???

heheeh

No, don't add to it. The thread is off-topic enough as is.

UMDev, can you update us on what's happening with the Miami River Center site e.i. is it up for sale? Is Millennium Partners hanging on to it? Do you know if they plan to build a tower there? How many stories are allowed on that lot by the river north of the BCC site called the Miami River Center?

UMDev, can you update us on what's happening with the Miami River Center site e.i. is it up for sale? Is Millennium Partners hanging on to it? Do you know if they plan to build a tower there? How many stories are allowed on that lot by the river north of the BCC site called the Miami River Center?

Pretty much all of Brickell is zoned T6-48 so the highest you can go is 48 stories (higher with bonuses). The actual height will vary because the height of a story can vary. Then you have FLR which is a version of FAR. For that lot the FLR is 18. So basically the lot is about 110,000 sqft x FLR of 18 gives you about 2 million square feet of buildable space. So the only way to get up to the 48 stories would be to leave a lot of the lot open.

I wouldn't expect much from this lot anytime soon. Millennium still owns it, they only sold the tennis club lot to Swire. Swire is going to be first out of the gate with Citicenter. At this point its best to sit back and see how it unfolds and then see what the market needs.

Pretty much all of Brickell is zoned T6-48 so the highest you can go is 48 stories (higher with bonuses).

But didn't you say a while back that there was a lot in Brickell, I believe just west of 500 Brickell, that was zoned at 80 stories? What about the BFC 2 site? They can only go to 48 stories now with a redesigned BFC 2?

But didn't you say a while back that there was a lot in Brickell, I believe just west of 500 Brickell, that was zoned at 80 stories? What about the BFC 2 site? They can only go to 48 stories now with a redesigned BFC 2?

You can get another 32 stories of "benefit Height" if you do things like LEED, public parks, open space, etc. I believe the FLR can also be increased by 50%. So the maximum you could get if you included the bonus would be 80 stories or 3 million square feet.

These bonuses aren't required to get to 80 stories downtown.

You can get another 32 stories of "benefit Height" if you do things like LEED, public parks, open space, etc. I believe the FLR can also be increased by 50%. So the maximum you could get if you included the bonus would be 80 stories or 3 million square feet.

These bonuses aren't required to get to 80 stories downtown.

Oh, wow! Okay, thanks!

I wouldn't expect much from this lot anytime soon. Millennium still owns it, they only sold the tennis club lot to Swire. Swire is going to be first out of the gate with Citicenter. At this point its best to sit back and see how it unfolds and then see what the market needs.

But is the Miami River Center lot currently up for sale still or has Millennium Partners decided to hold on to it for now? My rationale is if they didn't sell it to Swire, then maybe they want to do something with it themselves. Any indication of that?

But is the Miami River Center lot currently up for sale still or has Millennium Partners decided to hold on to it for now? My rationale is if they didn't sell it to Swire, then maybe they want to do something with it themselves. Any indication of that?
That property has been for sale for the last 10 years or so. It has been marketed on and off by Peter Harrison at Transwestern.

That property has been for sale for the last 10 years or so. It has been marketed on and off by Peter Harrison at Transwestern.

So apparently Swire didn't want to buy the lot for what Millennium Partners was asking rather than Millennium Partners wanting to develop the property themselves.

But is the Miami River Center lot currently up for sale still or has Millennium Partners decided to hold on to it for now? My rationale is if they didn't sell it to Swire, then maybe they want to do something with it themselves. Any indication of that?

Not listed for sale currently. I don't see much happening on that lot for a while.

So apparently Swire didn't want to buy the lot for what Millennium Partners was asking rather than Millennium Partners wanting to develop the property themselves.

Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price. They were fine with the original lots. The only reason they purchased the other lots was because they had to own more land to get a special area permit. If the requirements were smaller they wouldn't have even bought the other lots.

Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price.

Somehow I find that strange.

Not listed for sale currently.

So maybe Millennium Partners does finally want to develop the lot themselves.

Somehow I find that strange.

Why. Swire liked the lot they orginally purchased for $40M and had a good development plan for it. Why would they want another lot?? Again the only reason they purchased the other lots was because they needed more area to qualify for a special area plan so they could have more flexibility to develop what they wanted. If that requirement had been lower they wouldn't have even purchased the other two lots.

So maybe Millennium Partners does finally want to develop the lot themselves.

That lot is no different than the majority of vacant and/or underdeveloped lots in downtown Miami. It will sit empty for years until an opportunity presents itself. Except for a few large developers like Swire where development is only a tiny portion of the company, most people buy lots and then hold out for years (decades even) until they feel they can hit a home run. Its the reason you have skyscrapers next to vacant lots :ohno:

so will swire be knocking down the bank Atlantic building which they bought to build citi centre or will they keep it up and just include it in their plan?

Why. Swire liked the lot they orginally purchased for $40M and had a good development plan for it. Why would they want another lot?? Again the only reason they purchased the other lots was because they needed more area to qualify for a special area plan so they could have more flexibility to develop what they wanted. If that requirement had been lower they wouldn't have even purchased the other two lots.

Only because it's what I would have done if I had the kind of money behind me that Swire has.

That lot is no different than the majority of vacant and/or underdeveloped lots in downtown Miami. It will sit empty for years until an opportunity presents itself. Except for a few large developers like Swire where development is only a tiny portion of the company, most people buy lots and then hold out for years (decades even) until they feel they can hit a home run. Its the reason you have skyscrapers next to vacant lots :ohno:

I only mentioned what I did because you said the Miami River Center lot wasn't currently for sale. To me, the lot is different from other lots in the CBD and in Brickell because it's on the water in Brickell as is the Villa Magna site. Oh, well! At least Brickell Citicentre is almost a sure thing barring a direct hit from a category 5 hurricane. BFC 2 is being redesigned, whatever they plan to call it this time (still waiting for new renderings), and Banco Santander can do its own financing for its 840 feet tall tower. We shall see how it all unfolds in this decade, and so, we wait. I've already waited for nearly 30 years. I can wait a few more. :):cheers:

If Banco Santander can do its own financing, then why the delay ?

Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price. C'mon...this one will have to get filed in the "developers built in random locations" file. Neither is true.

No matter what the price? If it was offered for $1? $10? $1M? Of course they would have bought it. Absolutely, no question.
Would MP sell it? If they were offered 5200M? $200M? $100M? Of course they would sell it. Absolutely, no question.

Clearly, the buyer and seller did not have a mutually acceptable number and/or terms.

Note: UMdev did not say that the MP lot was for sale. He wrote, "Not listed for sale currently." That is a distinction with a big difference.

I only mentioned what I did because you said the Miami River Center lot wasn't currently for sale. To me, the lot is different from other lots in the CBD and in Brickell because it's on the water in Brickell as is the Villa Magna site. Oh, well! At least Brickell Citicentre is almost a sure thing barring a direct hit from a category 5 hurricane. BFC 2 is being redesigned, whatever they plan to call it this time (still waiting for new renderings), and Banco Santander can do its own financing for its 840 feet tall tower. We shall see how it all unfolds in this decade, and so, we wait. I've already waited for nearly 30 years. I can wait a few more. :):cheers:
I'm not sure what the name of the Millennium Partners Miami Riverfront site is called, but Miami River Center is the name of the building where the City of Miami P/Z department is located...SW 2nd Avenue on the north bank of the Miami River.

The Brickell Financial Center II renderings are not spectacular in my opinion (don't get you hopes up!), but the plaza is coming along nicely. The Plaza seems to cut a path from Icon Brickell straight accross to Brickell Citicenter.

C'mon...this one will have to get filed in the "developers built in random locations" file. Neither is true.

No matter what the price? If it was offered for $1? $10? $1M? Of course they would have bought it. Absolutely, no question.
Would MP sell it? If they were offered 5200M? $200M? $100M? Of course they would sell it. Absolutely, no question.

Clearly, the buyer and seller did not have a mutually acceptable number and/or terms.

Note: UMdev did not say that the MP lot was for sale. He wrote, "Not listed for sale currently." That is a distinction with a big difference.

This is a ridiculous statement. Of course if they offered it for $1M Swire would have bought it. Heck for $1M I would have bought it. But that is fantasy land.

Swire purchased the original two lots for around $40M. This was during the bust and well below the value of that lot. I believe the next closest bid on the land was in the $50M range but was contingent on financing. The seller felt more comfortable going with Swire because it was a cash deal. After all if they were to go with the $50M deal and the financing fell through then they would have to go back to Swire who would then know they could simply raise their price to whatever they wanted.

Once they purchased the lot they began to work on the development plan. But after looking at the zoning regulations there were things they couldn't do because the lot wasn't big enough. They then looked at the connecting lots to see how many addition lots they needed to get to enough acreage to allow them to do a special area plan and build it the way they wanted.

They got those lots at a great deal and only wanted to add the least amount of area to get to the special area plan. Especially now that the bust is gone and people aren't selling at fire sale prices. Now if Millennium wanted to offer up the lot for nothing I'm sure they would take it. But if Millennium was willing to do that then the lot would have been sold a long time ago.

If Banco Santander can do its own financing, then why the delay ?

I think they are anticipating when a market recovery would be the most favorable for them.

Note: UMdev did not say that the MP lot was for sale. He wrote, "Not listed for sale currently." That is a distinction with a big difference.

Yes, understood. "Not listed for sale currently" certainly doesn't mean it's not for sale.

The Brickell Financial Center II renderings are not spectacular in my opinion (don't get you hopes up!), but the plaza is coming along nicely. The Plaza seems to cut a path from Icon Brickell straight accross to Brickell Citicenter.

Have you seen the new renderings? Where would we be able to see them? What is the height in feet of the new BFC II? They're obviously putting up barricades for me.

Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price. They were fine with the original lots. The only reason they purchased the other lots was because they had to own more land to get a special area permit. If the requirements were smaller they wouldn't have even bought the other lots.
Read the first sentence again.
Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price.

I did not write that first sentence, you did. Not a big deal...maybe you just got carried away.

Glad that you have come around to recognizing the obvious now. Of course they would buy it at the right price.

I'm not sure what the name of the Millennium Partners Miami Riverfront site is called, but Miami River Center is the name of the building where the City of Miami P/Z department is located...SW 2nd Avenue on the north bank of the Miami River.

This is where I got Miami River Center from. It's on page 16. Loopnet.com - Miami River Center
601 S Miami Avenue, Miami, FL 33130

http://egov.ci.miami.fl.us/Legistarweb/Attachments/63417.pdf

Read the first sentence again.
Swire never wanted the lot no matter what the price.

I did not write that first sentence, you did. Not a big deal...maybe you just got carried away.

Glad that you have come around to recognizing the obvious now. Of course they would buy it at the right price.

You're trying to parse words. The point I was trying to make was that it wasn't about price because there was no negotiation for the lot. Swire was looking for the minimal amount of land to reach the special area plan and that lot was to much land and to far away. To include it they would have also had to purchase the lot in between that lot and the tennis club lot. Saying that they would have purchased the land if offered for nothing is a fantasy land response that is only true theoretically. So I'll revise:

Swire never wanted the lot as long as Millennium wasn't willing to give it to them at a price that was well below what another reasonable buyer is willing to pay.

This is where I got Miami River Center from. It's on page 16. Loopnet.com - Miami River Center
601 S Miami Avenue, Miami, FL 33130
Interesting...the real estate agent on Loopnet started calling the land Miami River Center and it made it on the Brickell Citicenter presentation.

I've always known the Miami River Center to be the County Building where P/Z is located. It's the building directly across from Finnegan's on the river....here is a picture from last month.
http://eyeonmiami.blogspot.com/2011/06/city-of-miami-municipal-building-is.html

So I'll revise:
Swire never wanted the lot as long as Millennium wasn't willing to give it to them at a price that was well below what another reasonable buyer is willing to pay.
Thanks...much better.

I won't put that in the "Developers built in random locations" file!!!!:)

http://eyeonmiami.blogspot.com/2011/06/city-of-miami-municipal-building-is.html

Speaking of that government building, it is very ironic that it has a banner on it when city commissioners were shunning all the advertisements all over downtown because they are illegal on buildings and even led to an accident.

Truly the dumbest city I have ever seen. Makes me want to write an essay or report with a title such as "socioeconomic effects of racism and pretention on society" with a case study on miami.
That is a great idea, and you are uniquely qualified to write such a report. But please, don't use this thread for your report. This report would be better suited in an exclusive new thread...

...on a different forum...and please don't say that you are from Miami. Thanks.

...

Uh-oh! Stuart Smally hacked into Endeavor's account!

Pretty much all of Brickell is zoned T6-48 so the highest you can go is 48 stories (higher with bonuses). The actual height will vary because the height of a story can vary. Then you have FLR which is a version of FAR. For that lot the FLR is 18. So basically the lot is about 110,000 sqft x FLR of 18 gives you about 2 million square feet of buildable space. So the only way to get up to the 48 stories would be to leave a lot of the lot open.

I wouldn't expect much from this lot anytime soon. Millennium still owns it, they only sold the tennis club lot to Swire. Swire is going to be first out of the gate with Citicenter. At this point its best to sit back and see how it unfolds and then see what the market needs.

1 - Sorry to sound like a dip, but what is FAR & FLR?

2 - Can we please not take this thread down the racism path? It's really not the place...

FAR is the typical floor area ratio used in zoning and FLR is a unique new Miami 21 figure known as Floor Lot Ratio.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=126055640796937&topic=22

Thanks Miami High Rise!

FAR is the old method, although it is still used outside of Miami limits. Miami Beach still uses it for example. It does not include parking. So for example if a lot is 50,000 square feet and has an FAR of 2 then you can build 100,000 square feet of usable space. You then calculate how much parking is needed for that space and add it to the 100,000 square feet. This leads to buildings with huge amount of parking as the only thing to limit are other restrictions such as height or setbacks.

Miami 21 uses FLR and it includes everything, so it will usually be higher. So for example if you have the same 50,000 square feet lot and an FLR of 5 then you can build 250,000 square feet including parking.

Lol. I missed the boat. Ok I'll drop it. Too late.

Uh-oh! Stuart Smally hacked into Endeavor's account!

Yea, that was probably a little over the top reply. Just hate to see people always talking about how they don't get any breaks and no one wants to help them. Everyone has control of their destiny to some extent as long as they are healthy. Anyway, I deleted my post.

FAR is the old method, although it is still used outside of Miami limits. Miami Beach still uses it for example.....
Excellent explanation very well done!

Yea, that was probably a little over the top reply. Just hate to see people always talking about how they don't get any breaks and no one wants to help them. Everyone has control of their destiny to some extent as long as they are healthy. Anyway, I deleted my post.

Actually on my way home today I saw some window washers taking down the advertisment from the building. I was thinking DAMN, MHR took your "become a man of action" speech to heart. :lol:

what is this thread even about???

what is this thread even about???

Good question?:):cheers:

Actually on my way home today I saw some window washers taking down the advertisment from the building. I was thinking DAMN, MHR took your "become a man of action" speech to heart. :lol:

Hehe. Call me Tony 'F--kin' Robbins!

Just kidding.

Good question?:):cheers:
lol :nuts:

http://m.citybizlist.com/city/details/6/155818

Hampton Inn & Suites in Miami to Become City?s First LEED-Certified Hotel
.
Planned environmentally-conscious features range from charging stations for electric cars to lights and thermostats that automatically turn off when occupants leave a room. The hotel would become only the third Hampton Inn property worldwide to achieve the LEED distinction. The Hampton Inn & Suites project, which is likely to attain LEED Silver certification in early 2012, will incorporate the following sustainable elements: -A 35,000 gallon cistern to harvest rainwater to be used in public restrooms, for irrigation purposes and for washing down exterior decking and walkways. -An in-room energy management system which will power down air conditioning system when guests are not in their rooms. -Preferred parking spaces for hybrid and electric cars, with charging stations for electric vehicles. -An ozone laundry system designed to reduce the consumption of water, energy and cleaning chemicals. -Energy Star-qualified compact fluorescent lights (CFLs) and LED lighting, which will lower energy consumption by 18%. -Low-flow water fixtures, dual flush toilets, and motion-activated faucets will reduce water usage by more than 40%, equating to an estimated 500,000 gallons of savings annually. -Occupancy sensors to control lights in public places and work areas.
and work areas. -Biodegradable recycled plastic room key cards. -Environmentally safe, non-toxic cleaning agents for housekeeping staff. -Bicycle racks, showers and changing facilities for employees who choose to bike and walk to work. The hotel is within walking distance of public transit options, including the Metromover and Metrorail systems. April 2012 will see the debut of AirportLink, a 2.4-mile extension of the Metrorail system to Miami International Airport. The hotel's location is also within walking distance to dozens of retail, restaurant and entertainment options creates a pedestrian-friendly atmosphere. Construction of the 15-story Hampton Inn & Suites Miami Brickell-Downtown, located at 50 SW 12th Street in Miami's Brickell Financial District, began in mid-2010 and topped-off in early 2011. Property features will include a rooftop pool, full-service bar, exercise room, business center, 10,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space, a 210-space parking garage, and 3,500 square feet of meeting space.

what is this thread even about???

It's about naked chicks!! Woohooohooohoooo.

(not really, but that would be better than skyscrapers.)

The Brickell Financial Center II renderings are not spectacular in my opinion (don't get you hopes up!), but the plaza is coming along nicely.

When will these become available for public consumption?

I'm sure there is no more dispute over the "urban" thing, but just a little FYI:

As of 2010, the population of Brickell had 31,759 people, with a population density of 37,622 per square mile, making it one of the densest neighborhoods in the United States, and the densest neighborhood south of New York City.

Brickell (pronounced brick-uhl) is an urban neighborhood in Miami, Florida, United States. A neighborhood of greater Downtown Miami, Brickell is Miami and South Florida's major financial district. Brickell is also a dense, high-rise residential neighborhood with many upscale, luxury condominium and apartment towers. Referred to as the "Manhattan of the South,". Brickell is home to the largest concentration of international banks in the United States, mostly along Brickell Avenue, Brickell's main north-south avenue and along Miami Avenue, home to many popular Miami restaurants, shops and places of entertainment.

PS:
Can't WAIT for www.centralparkmiami.com project to be finished! :)

That wikipedia excerpt was written alone by Marc Averette, so don't take it as a consensual piece of collaborative knowledge just because of the host.

...

Are you disputing that?

2000 list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

Brickell would be the most densely populated incorporated place in the United States outside of NYC based on 2010 numbers ... despite the severe undercounting of Brickell by the census.

In addition, between 2000 and 2010 Miami surpasses Philadelphia and Chicago on the list of most densely populated US cities, and is on track to overtake Boston shortly.

Yes! Way to tell it like it is. I like the new you man.

The city I love is becoming bigger than all those other cities that used to look down upon us. Miami has grown up baby! After the Heat and LeBron win some championships, Miami will be the envy of all other metro area's in the country! We will have it all... skyscrapers, weather, hottest women, best sports teams, etc. :banana:

Friendship Village, Maryland has a higher density than Brickell, so Brickell is not the densest neighborhood South of NY. Also Brickell is not an incorporated place of it's own, just as the neighborhoods in downtown Chicago, Boston, and San Fran are not.

Almost 32,000 (probably over 34,000 now) is impressive, but what is most fascinating is the potential for growth in the next ten years. Maybe I'm wrong but I can see 50,000 people living in Brickell alone ten years from now.

...

Most densely populated US cities as of 2010 census:

1. New York City
2. San Francisco
3. Boston
4. Miami

with Miami soon to be number 3.

Whoa... Hold your horses, buddy, because that last statement holds no evidence. While Miami is certainly densifying its downtown core (Brickell, CBD, etc), its hardly the only major densely populated city that is experiencing population growth. Miami only added 37,000 residents between 2000 and 2010; but Boston wasn't far behind, adding 28,500 residents in that same time period. And while Miami/the South Florida region had an unemployment rate of 11.3% in July 2011 (4th highest among the 20 most populous metro areas), the Boston metro area had an unemployment rate of just 7.1% (2nd lowest among the 20 most populous metro areas, only behind Washington D.C.'s 6%). Economic growth in the Boston region is much more favorable for Americans seeking work than the dire economic climate facing SoFlo. And I know for a fact that there are development projects across the city of Boston (especially in the South Boston Waterfront/"Innovation District") that will continue to increase Boston's population density, which threatens your premature declaration that Miami will soon be number 3.

And in case you were wondering where I got that unemployment info, I compiled it at work last week. Here it is FYI (with rate bolded):

Rank Metropolitan Area Rate
n/a United States 9.3
1 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area 6
2 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metropolitan NECTA 7.1
3 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI Metropolitan Statistical Area 7.5
4 Baltimore-Towson, MD Metropolitan Statistical Area 8
5 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area 8.6
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX Metropolitan Statistical Area 8.6
7 Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ Metropolitan Statistical Area 8.7
8 St. Louis, MO-IL Metropolitan Statistical Area1 8.8
9 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX Metropolitan Statistical Area 8.9
10 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metropolitan Statistical Area 9.1
11 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA Metropolitan Statistical Area 9.1
12 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area 10.1
13 Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI Metropolitan Statistical Area 10.3
14 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metropolitan Statistical Area 10.4
15 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area 10.5
16 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area 11.1
17 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area 11.3
18 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area 12.3
19 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI Metropolitan Statistical Area 14.1
20 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area 14.7

ok?^

...

Chinatown San Fransisco has a population of 100,000 and a population density of 75,000 people per square mile. That's outside of NYC and a bit more than Brickell.

...

I will say this. Miami's fortunes in the past have largely rested on Latin American economies and BRIC countries. Well, Latin America (and Brazil in particular) looks poised to most economists to become the China boom of the next decade. If that happens I think we all know it will benefit Miami far more than it will benefit any other city in the US. It is plausible to think that in a world where the US is stagnating and the rest of the world is surpassing us, Miami will fair better than most. Exhilarating or depressing, take it as you will.

^^ agreed 100% .

...

I went on the the Borges Architect website today and noticed that they have a new development that appears to be on the old 1390 Brickell Bay Drive site. Does anyone know anything about this?

http://www.borgesarchitects.com/
Click on to the portfolio/Architecture....page 2...last photo. It looks like a low level tower with offices and restaurants.

Miami is on track to overtake Boston within a few years for the number three spot.

Let's assume that the census data on Miami and Boston is correct (it isn't). Per the census in 2010, Miami had a population density of 12,139.5/sq mi, while Boston was at 12,752/sq mi. In 2000, Miami's density was 10,160.9/sq mi, while Boston was at 12163.8/sq mi. This means that the total growth rate in population density during the decade was 19.47% in Miami, while Boston's growth rate was 4.84%.

...

Do you have a cite for this? I’ve seen this number on Wikipedia, but it doesn’t correspond to the actual population figures that I’ve seen.

According to the 2010 Census, Miami has a population of 399,457 and a land area of 35.68 sq.mi., which would equate to a population density of 11,196 inh./sq.mi.

Maybe the 12,000+ number is based on the city’s claim that Miami has around 500,000 inhabitants (just a note – the same company that did the population estimate that put Miami’s population at 504,000 did an estimate for Baltimore, putting that city’s population at 760,000. Obviously, the Census did not agree).

...

Okay, gotcha, so I think we need to reevaluate your rebuttle to DShoost, since the 2009 estimates are trumped by the 2010 numbers. In fact, 2009 estimates were generous for cities pretty much across the board. Going back to Boston, the 2009 estimate was about 30,000 persons higher than the 2010 number. Pretty close to Miami.

Using the 2010 populations, Miami would have to close a gap of 55,534 residents on Boston. At current growth rates – Miami at 10.2% over the last ten years and Boston at 4.8% - my rough estimates are that Miami will surpass Boston’s density in 2036 or 2037.

I think it is inevitable, though. Boston has, for years, had some of the strictest building restrictions in the country. The city never builds enough to keep up with demand, which is why housing is so expensive there. Miami, on the other hand, has shown a willingness to build at demand levels. I think in the long, long run, Miami will have to vie with Chicago, which likewise builds to meet demand, which is why it’s comparatively so much cheaper to live there.

It's also worth noting that using the 2010 numbers, Philly is also denser than Miami.

....

...

wow now the middle class can finally vacation in miami, in a normal hotel, with normal prices!

I got a letter from my HOA talking about how Brickell flatiron, LLC. is making that park on their smaller lot. They've already started on it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60396128@N05/6208063119/

^^This is definitely open as of last night. I could hear the music from my balcony.

A bit more information about Flatiron Park and others to be constructed..

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/03/2443204/three-new-parks-in-the-works-in.html

...

The owner of Flatiron is moving forward with plans for a new Revuelta designed tower.

Do you have anything further on this?

I found it appropriate to post this link here as well. Could someone please provide us with a dedicated copy of page 6? It makes for a good overview of the north end of the Brickell Financial District.

http://www.mybrickell.us/mybrickell_Brochure/Mybrickell_brochure.pdf

I found it appropriate to post this link here as well. Could someone please provide us with a dedicated copy of page 6? It makes for a good overview of the north end of the Brickell Financial District.

http://www.mybrickell.us/mybrickell_Brochure/Mybrickell_brochure.pdf

You normally love the speculation about the Millennium site so I'm suprised you haven't pointed out they show that they have dredged out a portion of the site.

I'm also surpised that they didn't show Met 3 seeing as it will be built before many of the other buildings they're showing. Their diagram shows Whole Foods in Epic????

You normally love the speculation about the Millennium site so I'm suprised you haven't pointed out they show that they have dredged out a portion of the site.

So what do you think I just did, sugarman?:) I've just become a little more subtle and sedate in my methodology. :cheers:

I'm also surpised that they didn't show Met 3 seeing as it will be built before many of the other buildings they're showing.

Maybe MDM still isn't sure what they really want to do. :)

They also show something less than spectacular going on the Brickell Financial Center 2 site as Casamagda said.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6227/6261990794_9eca8a8bbc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/)
6247872178_c30a4e90f8_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/) by QuantumX (http://www.flickr.com/people/27357258@N03/), on Flickr

They also show something less than spectacular going on the Brickell Financial Center 2 site as Casamagda said.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6227/6261990794_9eca8a8bbc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/)
6247872178_c30a4e90f8_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/) by QuantumX (http://www.flickr.com/people/27357258@N03/), on Flickr

Q, Is this fairly new?

what are those random non-existent buildings behind BFC, west of my brickell and on both sides of the river by the river park inn???

Q, Is this fairly new?

Yes!

what are those random non-existent buildings behind BFC, west of my brickell and on both sides of the river by the river park inn???

What is immediately behind BFC is what was supposed to be BFC2. Looks like it got chopped down quite a bit. Of course, Brickell Citicentre is shaded in blue west of that.

North of Brickell Citicentre on the Miami River and east of the bridge is whatever Millennium has planned for that site. Looks like they plan to dredge out part of the site and put a small marina there. Sara said on the MyBrickell thread that the developer definitely had something planned for that lot and just hasn't announced it yet. See that thread for Dave's first observation of this and Sara's comment.

On the other side of Miami Avenue from there, I don't know what that is or if anybody has anything planned for there.

Across the Miami River from there and west of the Miami Avenue bridge is the Cima site. What is planned to go there now, I don't know, but looks like it's going to be one dense part of town that whole area around the Miami River.

Thanks Q, Very Intresting News..

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/29/2478900/condo-mania-20.html

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The aftershocks of the last housing boom are still lingering, but developers are once again rushing to buy up land and erect new condo towers in downtown Miami’s burgeoning metropolis.

At least six new condo projects are slated to break ground in Miami in the coming years, with developers promising to announce several additional projects soon.

For skeptical housing analysts and weary homeowners, the sudden flurry of developer excitement in the midst of double-digit unemployment and stagnant home prices brings back not-so-distant memories of the last housing boom, and its epic bust.

This time is different, say the developers, who profess to have learned their lesson and are adopting financial models with far less risk than the 20-percent-deposit pre-sales that were popular during the last building boom.

“It’s time to think of where we’re going to be rather than where we are,” said Harvey Hernandez, whose Newgard Development Group recently announced plans for a new condo tower called Brickell House at 1300 Brickell Bay Dr. “It could not be a better moment for us to launch a project.”

So why the sudden rush to build again?

In addition to downtown Miami’s growing population and reduced construction costs, it’s a function of supply and demand. Developers point to an inventory of new condos that has, at least on paper, shrunk quickly over the past two years as cash buyers have bought thousands of units at discounted prices. South Florida condo resales are up 65 percent this year, and only about 2,000 of the 23,000 downtown condos built during the boom remain unsold.

The demand is coming, almost exclusively, from outside Miami. Buyers based in Latin America, Canada, Europe and the northeast United States have spent more than $3.8 billion on South Florida real estate this year, helping boost sales. International buyers account for about 90 percent of new condo sales, according to the Miami Association of Realtors.

Builders believe the surging international demand is strong enough to support new condo towers.

They are also using a more cash-focused financing model this time, hedging risk by requiring buyers to pay as much as 80 percent of the full price of a condo before construction is completed. Under the arrangement, buyers pay 20 percent at pre-construction, 20 percent at ground-breaking, and another 30 to 40 percent as the tower is topped off and approved for occupancy.

“The beauty of this business model is it separates the men from the boys,” said Craig Studnicky, principal of RelatedISG, a new development and sales partnership with Jorge Perez’s Related Group. “There are no speculators. The contracts are not assignable. These are people that are planning to live there or invest and use them as rentals.”

Whether developers’ line of thinking will prove profitable remains to be seen, as the proposed financing model — popular in Latin America — has never been tested on a large-scale basis in the United States.

William Hardin, a professor of real estate and finance at Florida International University, said some of the developers are simply testing the market. They might make splashy announcements and host lavish launch parties, but if the cash-buyers don’t materialize, the projects will never be built.

“You have a lot of posturing going on,” he said. “Everyone’s talking, but not every one of those plans are going to stick.”



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/29/2478900/condo-mania-20.html#ixzz1cI0fbQLd

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/29/2478900/condo-mania-20.html

-

“You have a lot of posturing going on,” he said. “Everyone’s talking, but not every one of those plans are going to stick.”



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/29/2478900/condo-mania-20.html#ixzz1cI0fbQLd

I think that is the key quote. Over the past year I have been able to talk with multiple developers who are planning developments. Pretty much all of them have the same line of thinking. After repositioning they all feel that they can been the only one selling new product ins say 2013. So even if prices don't rise much which would you rather have, a unit completed in 2007 or a unit completed in 2013.

The problem is that line of thinking doesn't work so great if there are 7 other developers thinking the exact same thing. It seems like most the developers are posturing and trying to figure who else is really serious.

With Swire's money and philosophy I think they're a sure bet. MyBrickell skipped out on the garage keeping cost down so I think it's a pretty safe bet as well. Brickell House seems a little suspect considering they're is an a better empty lot around the corner. Skyline has been trying to do something over MBV for ever which may be rentals and I've heard rumors about 1080. Then we could get rentals at Met 3.

How gimmicky does a market have to be for never-owned 2007 to be considered "old". Look at new York and Chicago. The majority of those living off the ground are in 100+ year old brick buildings built up against each other to get the best of both densities and are hardly dilapidated, especially considering their age. Many of these condos, and even office buildings like the b-side Latitude One, really are cheap and gimmicky. Vertical trailer parks.

Imagine these condos in 100 years. Without constant maintenance and pressure cleaning in this climate they'll look like something out of doom 95.

It's not a matter of being old as much as it is the matter of something being brand new.

The same thing would apply in NY. Would you rather be in an old building that was renovated in 2007 or an old building that was renovated in 2013 if they're the same price?

Vertical trailer parks?? Now you're back to talking crazy again.

MIAMI 2019!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/6296009299_e206596e11_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6296009299/)
untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6296009299/) by QuantumX (http://www.flickr.com/people/27357258@N03/), on Flickr

Brickell condo sale prices up 18% in 2 years

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/111103/story6.shtml

"Occupancy is super-high, about 90%"

Brickell condo sale prices up 18% in 2 years

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/111103/story6.shtml

"Occupancy is super-high, about 90%"

Jesus!^^ Anyway, I posted the Blade Runner movie poster because it is a futuristic sci-fi flick set in Los Angeles in 2019, and it looks as though Miami is going to look more like that movie in 2019 than Los Angeles.

I heard that auto insurance companies are earning a fortune from couple of years; this is just good because other insurance firms are struggling to earn or to stay stable in the market. Are you guy’s bringing any new health plan in Orlando region because I am thinking to buy one.

financial planners orlando (http://www.roygavra.com/)

I heard that auto insurance companies are earning a fortune from couple of years; this is just good because other insurance firms are struggling to earn or to stay stable in the market. Are you guy’s bringing any new health plan in Orlando region because I am thinking to buy one.

financial planners orlando (http://www.roygavra.com/)

Major carriers (State Farm, Allstate, Geico, Progressive, etc) haven't been increasing sales or book of business in south Florida over the last several years due to increasing rates/premiums and eligibilty requirements. They have had to raise their rates and eligibility requirements due to the increase in claims and payouts - many of which are fraudulent. However, smaller companies and independent agencies have done well picking up customers that are looking to switch due to the premium increases with the better known companies. Furthermore, people like to bundle their policies and get multi-policy discounts. When companies like State Farm and Allstate (aka Castle Key) start dropping homeowner policies throughout the state (or increase premium for those they don't drop), it breaks the bundle which many times leads to multi-policy discounts being removed which in turn raises the auto insurance premium. That leads to even more people switching.

I took a picture!

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7047/img0630en.jpg

I took this a few weeks ago and can't recall the condition of the sign.

I HAVE seen chickens in the bushes around there though.
Look on the curb near the center of the picture.
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5051/img0641m.jpg

^^

Hell yeah, I've seen those chickens crossing the street by Axis and on the Publix Brickell Village parking lot.... what the heck???

Brickell is supposed to be the Financial Center of Miami, and when you see those chickens crossing the street, it feels like living not even in the suburbs, but in a town far away from the civilization. :lol:

Renzi hit with foreclosure over two stalled Miami projects
.South Florida Business Journal by Brian Bandell, Senior Reporter
Date: Friday, December 23, 2011, 2:18pm EST

Brian Bandell
Senior Reporter - South Florida Business Journal
Email | LinkedIn | Twitter The holiday season is a time when most people open their mail and find warm cards and generous gifts, but some South Florida borrowers have received a different type of greetings from their lenders this month: notices of lis pendens and foreclosure auctions.

The foreclosure festivities continued for embattled Miami developer Renzo Renzi, who was named in a foreclosure lawsuit in Miami-Dade County for a 10th time since 2008. His efforts to use bankruptcy court to reorganize his personal debt were rejected in August.

This time, a Miami investor wants to seize two stalled Miami projects that were planned by Renzi and his brother, Pasquale Renzi.

Corporate records link the investor, who recently acquired the mortgages from a bank, to Miami-based condo developer Crescent Heights .Crescent Heights Latest from The Business Journals 0M San Francisco rental project to break groundBiggest S.F. apartment project in years gets go-ahead; 800 jobsMiami Beach JCC plans new facility Follow this company ..

SMA at Eighth LLC and 22nd at Coral Way LLC filed a foreclosure lawsuit on Dec. 13 against the Beacon at Brickell Village, Beacon Developer Partners, the Blue on Coral Way and the Renzi brothers, who are listed as guarantors of the loans. The lawsuit concerns mortgages modified for a combined $11.8 million in 2008.

Sharon Christenbury, the general counsel and VP for Crescent Heights, is the managing member of the plaintiffs. Crescent Heights, led by Russell Galbut, is one of the largest condo developers in the nation. Now it could have two prime sites for Miami projects.

Beacon at Brickell Village owns a 0.56-acre site at 30 S.E. Eighth St. and 830 S.E. First Ave. The only structure is a 4,603-square-foot office building that is more than 50 years old. Neighboring that site, Beacon Development Partners owns a vacant 4,693-square-foot site at 18 S.E. Eighth St. The properties were secured by an $8.4 million mortgage.

Those properties are on the south side of Swire Properties’ massive Brickell CitiCentre project.

According to online advertisements, the Renzis planned Beacon at Brickell Village as a 38-story, 228-unit condominium. No significant construction took place there.

Work started for the Blue on Coral Way, but it didn’t get very far until construction stalled. The mixed-use project was planned for 168 apartments, six townhomes and ground-floor retail. Blue on Coral Way owns 1.3 acres at 3170 S.W. 22nd St. (Coral Way) and stretching south to Southwest 22nd Terrace. The site is secured by a $4 million mortgage.

The mortgages were originally granted by Peninsula Bank, which failed and had Florida Community Bank .Florida Community Bank Latest from The Business Journals Year in review: BankingBoca Raton office building hit with foreclosureFlorida banks double Q3 profits Follow this company .assume its assets. The Miami-based bank sold the loans to SMA at Eighth LLC and 22nd at Coral Way LLC in October.

Fort Lauderdale attorney Alaine S. Greenberg, who represents the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, declined comment.

I HAVE seen chickens in the bushes around there though.
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5051/img0641m.jpg
That looks like the same rooster that crows at my office on Brickell Ave.

I am surprised the homeless people haven't cooked them for dinner yet...lol.

It could be true by coincidence.

What can't be true?

What can't be true?

Icon selling a unit every second.

[/URL]
1217111331b (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6528442653/) by Daniel Christensen (http://www.flickr.com/people/rcadimensia/), on Flickr


[URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6528443415/"]1217111331 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6528443415/) by Daniel Christensen (http://www.flickr.com/people/rcadimensia/), on Flickr

LMAO! I am cracking up over this!

You gotta love Miami. They probably escaped from a botanica in neighboring Little Havana!

That is seriously one of the dumbest ads I have ever seen.

That is seriously one of the dumbest ads I have ever seen.
On the other hand...one of my favorites is (and you see it in most major cities) is the big sign on the builiding next to the freeway that says, "If you lived here, you would home right now".
That one motivates one type of person, and really pisses off another type of person.

There had been talk on here of a new tower at 1100 S Miami Ave. It goes before the UDRB on the 18th. They are proposing 337 units.

http://www.miamigov.com/planning/docs/Agendas/UDRB%20Agenda%2001-18-2012.pdf

There had been talk on here of a new tower at 1100 S Miami Ave. It goes before the UDRB on the 18th. They are proposing 337 units.

http://www.miamigov.com/planning/docs/Agendas/UDRB%20Agenda%2001-18-2012.pdf

Isn't this the lot that related has talked about doing the second tower after MyBrickell?

Isn't this the lot that related has talked about doing the second tower after MyBrickell?Yes.
It is being called MyBrickell 2.
Very clever.

How many Floors?

I would assume between 30-40floors if it has 300units..but thats just a guess.

Thanks for answering. I am just an enthusiast after all, I'm not an master of design by any means.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/120119/story7.shtml

NY buyer of Brickell site plans boutique hotel

By Patricia Hoyos
A boutique hotel could be heading to Brickell in five years time on a 24,000-square-foot patch where Italian restaurant Rosinella and Grano Bakery currently sit.
The new hotel is expected to have anywhere between 75 to 150 hotel rooms and to include retail on the bottom floor, said Fabio Faerman, commercial division director for Fortune International Realty.
An undisclosed New York group purchased the three properties totaling to 24,000 square feet in Brickell with the purpose of bringing a new hotel to the area, he said. The purchased properties include five retail spaces and an office space in a 6,000-square-foot building as well as an 18,000-square-foot lot with space for 30 parking spots.
Located at 1036 S Miami Avenue, 1040 S Miami Avenue and 21 SW 11th St., the properties were acquired for $7.5 million in cash, Mr. Faerman said.
The company will hold the properties, two of which were owned by the Miami Avenue Holding Co. and one owned by Eleventh Street Holding Co., for at least five years before moving on with the plan, he said.
In the meantime, the new landlord hopes to keep its current tenants, which include Grano Bakery and Rosinella, which has been there since 1997, until the structures are demolished to make way for the development.
In addition, two new tenants are set to move into the empty retail space. A Colombian concept new to the area and a high-end cuisine concept will open later this year, said Mr. Faerman, who represented both the seller and the buyer in the transaction.
The New York-based firm that now owns the properties also owns another property in Brickell, Mr. Faerman said.
He said he anticipates a more detailed plan for the hotel component to be available later this year after the new owner of the retail corridor hires an architect.

What about the West side of that street block? Were they ever going to build a flatiron or some other building on it? I'm talking about the one just north of the new park.

What about the West side of that street block? Were they ever going to build a flatiron or some other building on it? I'm talking about the one just north of the new park.
The lot to the north of the Flatiron Park. That is now a parking lot and will eventually be developed. Combining the Flatiron Park lot, the street, the metromover track, and the land to the north is out according to the developer.

This article is about the Rosinella's land on the west side of S Miami Avenue. Flatiron Park and the parking lot north of it are on the east side of S Miami Avenue.

Yeah they were going to build this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brickell_Flatiron
http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2079215/2133224/2139697/2139698/5_Brickell_Flatiron.jpg

But it was either cancelled or put on hold. It looks like its just going to be a park until they finally decide what to build in the property, just like with Grand Central Park.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5702483237_e872d04a0c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28404061@N02/5702483237/)
citicentre (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28404061@N02/5702483237/) by Quantum2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/28404061@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6227/6261990794_9eca8a8bbc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/)
6247872178_c30a4e90f8_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27357258@N03/6261990794/) by QuantumX (http://www.flickr.com/people/27357258@N03/), on Flickr

But it was either cancelled or put on hold. It looks like its just going to be a park until they finally decide what to build in the property, just like with Grand Central Park.Scroll all the way back to post #2138.
The owner is not going to build that conceptual drawing on his land. In his own words, the park will probably remain there, we will develop the lot to the north, but the idea of integrating the Metromover and combing the two lots with the street is no longer on the table.

New park on south brickell avenue:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7191/6913829419_527e61b666_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6913829419/)
0219121301 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6913829419/) by rcadimenisa (http://www.flickr.com/people/rcadimensia/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/6913826565_e03a19b9a9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6913826565/)
0219121301a (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/6913826565/) by rcadimenisa (http://www.flickr.com/people/rcadimensia/), on Flickr

The Capital lot has been cleared. That will make a nice Alton 5 type development. Hopefully they don't waste the pit and put a level of parking below grade, since it never floods even in the heaviest rain. If they fill it in I'll go down there and slap the GC.

^ Wait what are they building at the capital site?

Yes.
It is being called MyBrickell 2.
Very clever.



The name has been changed.

The name has been changed.
That had to happen eventually!

I've been hearing rumors lately that Central Park Miami on S. Miami Ave/Coral Way is no longer going to happen, that the lot will be sold for a new building. I can't find any evidence to support the rumor except for the fact that construction has practically stopped & it shouldn't take a year to build a patio.

Does anyone know if there is truth to this?

Air Rights above Mary Brickell Village forclosed upon

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2012/03/23/cooper-citys-stirling-town-center.html

Foreclosure action in Miami involves thin air

South Florida Business Journal by Brian Bandell, Senior Reporter

Date: Friday, March 23, 2012, 2:56pm EDT - Last Modified: Friday, March 23, 2012, 5:23pm EDT

The 369-unit condominium project planned above Mary Brickell Village in downtown Miami has been targeted for foreclosure.
Skyline Equities has yet to launch construction of the project, although its SkyPalace Development affiliate did pay $9 million in 2011 for air rights above the Publix there – a requirement to build the condomium atop the property. Brickell Main Street, the company that owns the mixed-use center, provided a $7.4 million mortgage to SkyPalace Development to help it finance the air rights purchase above the property at 911 S.W. First Avenue.
That mortgage was recently sold to MBV Investment Holdings, which filed a foreclosure lawsuit on Wednesday against SkyPalace Development. The complaint also names LNR-LYND MBV, a California group that provided a second mortgage of $1.5 million to the developer in February.
Skyline Equities spokesman Stylianos Vayanos wasn’t aware of the lawsuit, but he said the developer has been working to secure both financing and equity capital so it can launch construction. It has made tremendous progress in the past three months, he added.
Skyline Equities is headed by CEO Evangeline Gouletas.
Pre-construction prices were listed from $300,000 to $1.2 million and deposits have been taken on units.
Meanwhile, plaintiff MBV Investment Holdings lists its address as 1450 Brickell Ave., Suite 2300 – the Miami offices of law firm Bilzin Sumberg – but it doesn’t list a managing officer in state records. Miami Beach attorney Jason Giller, who represents MBV Investment Holdings in the lawsuit, declined to comment on the case or disclose the identity of the person managing his client.

Air Rights above Mary Brickell Village forclosed upon


So if I happen to be in a hot air balloon over MBV with a bullhorn denouncing unfair Latvian trade policies or calling for a National Day of Recognition for Ernest Borgnine my right to Free Speech will be trampled upon?

We'll just see what my attorney and the United States Constitution have to say about THIS!

So if I happen to be in a hot air balloon over MBV with a bullhorn denouncing unfair Latvian trade policies or calling for a National Day of Recognition for Ernest Borgnine my right to Free Speech will be trampled upon?

We'll just see what my attorney and the United States Constitution have to say about THIS!

Lmao!

So if I happen to be in a hot air balloon over MBV with a bullhorn denouncing unfair Latvian trade policies or calling for a National Day of Recognition for Ernest Borgnine my right to Free Speech will be trampled upon?

We'll just see what my attorney and the United States Constitution have to say about THIS!

Don't make me send Kojak after you.

Is there a posibility of someone completing a building over that publix or is the property pretty much set in stone the way it is now?

Is there a posibility of someone completing a building over that publix or is the property pretty much set in stone the way it is now?
Very strong possibility that something gets built....for the right wager, I'd guarantee it.
Eventually.

Well I know the market is right for it. I more meant that is the structure still sound enough to put something there with the foundation open to the elements for approx 5 years.

So if I happen to be in a hot air balloon over MBV with a bullhorn denouncing unfair Latvian trade policies or calling for a National Day of Recognition for Ernest Borgnine my right to Free Speech will be trampled upon?

We'll just see what my attorney and the United States Constitution have to say about THIS!

:lol:

Count me in on the Ernest Borgnine Day thing if you ever do it. :lol:

EDIT: If they ever make a movie on the life of Warren Buffett he would be the perfect actor.

Sky Palace at MBV announces new partners
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2012/04/10/skypalace-announces-partners.html

Some pics I took this weekend.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7107/7004872510_3595186944.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7004872510/)
Brickell Facades (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7004872510/) by Exploratus (http://www.flickr.com/people/urbancityarch/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7217/7004561510_b030d50e9d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7004561510/)
Banco Santander vs Four Seasons (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7004561510/) by Exploratus (http://www.flickr.com/people/urbancityarch/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7228/7150677199_2ae5a601a6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7150677199/)
Banco Santander and Espiritu Santo Brickell Avenue (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbancityarch/7150677199/) by Exploratus (http://www.flickr.com/people/urbancityarch/), on Flickr

Some pics I took this weekend.Very Nice!

Rilea Group selling 1080 Brickell site:

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2012/05/rilea-group-selling-brickell-condo.html

Rilea Group selling Brickell Avenue condo site for $17M
South Florida Business Journal by Brian Bandell, Senior Reporter
Date: Monday, May 21, 2012, 11:40am EDT

Rilea Group is about to sell the site of a proposed 328-unit condominium tower on Miami’s Brickell Avenue to a Spanish investment group for $17.37 million, according to a source familiar with the deal.
The price of the deal, expected to close this week, is a $7.87 million premium above the $9.5 million that Rilea Group’s 1080 Brickell LLC paid in 2006 for the parking garage on 1 acre. It was also enough to repay the $5 million mortgage on the property.
The parking garage, which serves the neighboring office building, would be replaced. It was recently rezoned for 328 units in 43 stories, with amenities such as a swimming pool, Jacuzzi, fitness center and spa. The new parking garage, which would have 647 spaces, must have extra spaces so it can continue serving the office building.
Rilea Group CEO Alan Ojeda could not immediately be reached for comment.
The buyer – and new developer – is MDR Toledo, which is managed by Madrid residents Manuel Moratiel Llarena and Maria Moratiel Del Pilar Entrena.
Those are the same investors in control of MDR Real Estate, which paid $17 million in January for Brickell Station Lofts.