part 8

If you're new to this thread and reading back, part 7 can be found here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=338492).

"Q: Tommy of Milwaukee - Hi Whitney, Can you explain your rabid aversion to any development in the city of Milwaukee that is not "historic" in nature? Do you EVER consider the value and worth of progressive thinking as it applies to urban planning? What Milwaukee needs is more private and corporate investment along with for-profit development along the lakefront, county parks, and other public areas. Look at the success of the Alterra coffee house on Lincoln Memorial Drive for an example. I am sure you and your like-minded elitist, liberal lackeys have enjoyed a cup of java there while bitterly complaining about how horrible your life and this country is. I am sure you have at least a fair amount of intelligence and therefore should realize that an entire group of people disagree with your mindset and believe it is extreme leftists like you who are holding back the city of Milwaukee."

Wow, this guy should switch to decaf and turn off AM radio.

a. Whitney Gould does not have a rabid aversion to development not 'historic' in nature. She is an architecture writer though, and she does have an aversion to anything that doesn't add value architecturally. Makes sense, doesn't it Tommy.

b. the Alterra coffee house: a historical redevelopment Tommy.

c. One 'entire' group disagrees with her - yeegads!

d. Leftist: is he suggesting she is a socialist for writing about good architecture?

If anyone was wondering what her response was....

A: Whitney Gould - Whew. Which side of the bed did you get up on today, Tommy? All I can say is that you must be reading some other columnist. I love great modern design and advocate it constantly. And yep, I love my coffee at Alterra. What I wouldn't love (and the Wisconsin Constitution forbids) is privatizing the public land that was once part of Lake Michigan--i.e., the filled lakebed east of Lincoln Memorial Drive. That land belongs to all the people of Wisconsin, under the Public Trust Doctrine. (Incidentally, my conservative Republican parents would be chuckling in their graves at your last crack...) Signing off now, dear readers. Thanks for all your good questions.

"liberal lackeys have enjoyed a cup of java there while bitterly complaining about how horrible your life and this country is"

Besides the bad grammar, thats the best part.. he's probably one of those morons that thinks that complaining about Bush means hating America. He probably lives in Brookfield and tells everyone he lives in Milwaukee. Milwaukee, like all cities, is blue. But that doesnt mean a pop stand on the parks is bad.. even some big development is good.. like the Bartolloto restaurant in Lake Park.. the pavillion was a shit hole before they moved in. On the other hand, the restaurant moved into a building that was already there, rather than building a new structure, which I think most parks would need if they wanted some private investment. This jackass probably thinks a strip mall on lake front is appropriate.

Ohhh Walmart Lakeshore.. think of the possibilities!

Would a Navy Pier type setup not do well on our lakefront? Some boat slips, small carnival type park with a few rides, couple of restaurants and shops? I think that would be enjoyed by many. I long for JUST ONE Memorial Union type setup on Lake Michigan in Milwaukee. Sipping suds after a long day on the lake is just what the doctor ordered.

Would a Navy Pier type setup not do well on our lakefront? Some boat slips, small carnival type park with a few rides, couple of restaurants and shops? I think that would be enjoyed by many. I long for JUST ONE Memorial Union type setup on Lake Michigan in Milwaukee. Sipping suds after a long day on the lake is just what the doctor ordered.

Yes, but where? You don't have to sell away a public park to do this. Perhaps there is an opportunity in the future to create this type of settings, but I just can't picture it anywhere near our current downtown.

Yes, but where? You don't have to sell away a public park to do this. Perhaps there is an opportunity in the future to create this type of settings, but I just can't picture it anywhere near our current downtown.

How about that long narrow peninsula that juts out from Veterans Park? Its basically got a sidewalk that goes out and then curves right back around. Maybe widen it some? I agree. The placement would be key, and a huge hurdle. I love what we have in our lakefront, but I don't doubt that if something were done properly, that it would be awesome for the city.

i always envisioned something like that where the rides used to be at Summerfest next to the marcus ampitheater....basically just having that open year round. It is a little out of the way, but you wouldn't be developing any current parkland either.

Summerfest as a year-round attraction, that's logically the only recourse afforded
for developing the lakefront into a regional draw. Create density along that corridor,
eliminate the surface parking West of the grounds, put in parking structures, and provide more public transportation to serve activities in the area.

The transportation hub already exists, in the form of a glass block tower, post-modern nightmare(Michigan Street.) At least the tower has the historic, iconic element of German precision, and detail, a clock.

Develop an international marketplace on the surface lots west of the grounds, which would provide a visible, approachable to the public, headquarters for all the ethnic festivals (get them out of the shadows of the Summerfest Admin. build.), and "Holiday Folk Fair." The marketplace would provide vendors with a large space to sell items they would normally only sell at Summer street festivals, imported crafts, ethnic restaurants, clothing, furniture. As the hq for the festivals/folk fair: have "ethnic" craft demonstrations (or Brasilian judo) , dancing, cooking demos all through out the year. If Milwaukee wants outdoor soccer have it played here as well.
Don't forget the giant, Thames River eating, Ferris Wheel, inserted for marketability.

Anchor the international market with a skywalk connection to the transportation hub (on Michigan Street*), add a highrise hotel (for outoftown tourists, musical celebrities, possible maritime themed waterpark) + obligatory condos, and grid busting parking structure, something that catches the eye, glass skinned with images blasted in to suggest entertainment, festivities , etc. This area needs to bridge the Third Ward (wareshouse densities) to the lakefront.


*ok, I am joking about the transportation hub, but wouldn't it be nice if it served more of a purpose than simply an oversized, multistorey, lunchroom for bus drivers.

This area needs to bridge the Third Ward (wareshouse densities) to the lakefront.

The city already has plans for that area,
http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/plans/ThirdWard/index.html

Whether or not your ideas could be incorporated into the plans is another story. And of course the city's plans do not include the proposed soccer stadium either.

i pretty much agree with you, that is the only safe place to develop along the lakefront since it already is...yet it is only used for maybe 40 days in the summer. It should become a year-round attraction and I like the idea of a marketplace. I also like the idea of some small sort of theme park with some rides that would be open from at least April-October, with some winter activities there too.

exit_320> Have you heard anything new about the MLS stadium last I heard the spot in the third ward was high on their list but there was one more urban location in the running.

I wouldn't hold my breath for a Major League Soccer stadium. I think Milwaukee could mount a succesful bid to land a franchise, but I don't see the stadium happening, at least not downtown or in the Third Ward. The stadium proposal that the MLS proponents have brought to the table would be so costly to build (almost $200M) that it would not happen without City assistance in the form of TIF. And there is no way the City would float a TIF for something that would be seen as a niche entertainment venue.

I think the more likely scenario would be a soccer-specific stadium in one of the suburbs, perhaps Tosa or even Cudahy or South Mil. Land would be cheaper, and the developer wouldn't have to build any parking decks because plenty of space would be available for surface parking. The developers might also stand a better chance of getting government assistance, since you would think that any one of Milwaukee's suburbs would love to have the stadium within their borders.

The Milwaukee MLS inititive has been stuck trying to land more investors and securing a site on which to build their proposed soccer stadium and mixed-use development.

They've had their eye on at least four different urban sites, all of which have been eliminated, mostly because various City leaders have opposed for one reason or another (funding, site location, etc.). Apparently the Dept. of City Development hasn't been too helpful in assisting the Milwaukee MLS group in finding an appropriate site either. There has been some support for their ideas from some aldermen.

Several months ago the MLS group decided to expand its search boundaries to include sites inside the city as well as out into the suburbs.

exit_320> Have you heard anything new about the MLS stadium last I heard the spot in the third ward was high on their list but there was one more urban location in the running.

Haven't really heard anything else come up about the stadium.. I know the Third Ward and park east were two areas they were considering. City officials didn't support the park east plan, but I think they were receptive to the Third Ward location. I think another option was to look further south towards the hispanic population base given its huge interest in soccer over other groups.

There is a chance they would build in the suburbs, but I hope that doesn't happen, because it would be a loss for the city. South of the third ward would be the best spot I think.. a stadium there could help revitalize some of the surrounding neighborhoods

The number #1 problem has been landing the site, the investors are there, and waiting on the site. Some (well 1) of those urban sites they looked at and originally thought impossible came back on the table in April. That said we haven't heard anything so that's not good. And I'd forget about the suburbs this group really wants to be in the city and in the city they believe they can do it on 30 acres whereas in the burbs they'd need 100 acres. It is also my understanding that the TIF would be a developer financed TIF not a city one so that should in some ways make it easier for the city. And finally this is a group that has committements for 8,000 season tickets already! (more than any team in MLS I believe).

And a proposed TIF wouldn't be just for the stadium, but mixed-use development around the stadium as well.

Exactly I don't remember the numbers off hand right now but more than half of the money is actually for condo, retail and office space in and around the stadium. (Note the Fire's stadium was about 70mil) It's too bad DCD and the Mayor haven't supported this project (local Alderman actually quietly have) as it has great potential. The way they build these stadiums allows them to act as a venue for concerts as well so we're not just talking about activity for a few MLS games but concerts, high-school football, state soccer events and so on during the summer (approx 60+ total events).

Perhaps the answer is slightly complicated, but I'm curious as to why Ghazi is building a 48-story tower in Charlotte for $100 million and the 32-story 401 West Wisconsin tower planned for Milwaukee is double that cost ... $200 million. Is the tower in Milwaukee supposed to be that much nicer? And by the way, Ghazi lists five buildings in Charlotte for their project - EpiCentre.

Here (http://www.theghazicompany.com/future.htm) is the link for both of the aforementioned Ghazi's proposals. And to dress up the post a bit, pictures of the two projects - EpiCenter on the left, 401 West Wisconsin to the right:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4967/futureepicentrecomplexlarge0xh.jpg http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7159/futurephotomilwaukee9yi.jpg

According to my moles within DCD the Department has been cool to the soccer stadium idea and there even seems to be some open hostility to the idea. I can understand the City saying outright "no" to a TIF but DCD is not being accomodating at all to the soccer developers. Maybe Peter Wilt did something to piss someone off twenty years ago or DCD higher ups just decided early on to put it in the "never gonna happen" file. It's too bad.

Don't think the city will be able to shoot down the idea too much if it has public support and the developers don't ask for city assistance.. But the situation is interesting.. wonder what did happen.

According to my moles within DCD the Department has been cool to the soccer stadium idea and there even seems to be some open hostility to the idea. I can understand the City saying outright "no" to a TIF but DCD is not being accomodating at all to the soccer developers.

This syncs up with what I've heard from moles in the Milwaukee Professional Soccer group as well.

It is puzzling why Mayor Barrett and DCD are not really providing any help whatsoever with this proposal...not even site recommendations.

The mixed-use component is necessary because the revenue it brings in would be used to underwrite the debt service on the actual stadium. The TIF would be developer-financed, not city-financed, so the City would not be left holding the bag.

So it is strange why the Mayor and DCD have been so cold to this proposal...to pass up an esitamted $300 million worth of privately-financed mixed-use development (office, retail, residential) that would reportedly bring in 1000 new jobs...to pass up an estimated $80 million privately-funded stadium for a new major league soccer team which would have the potential to be used for other events (local, national, and international) as well...

The soccer group does have some investors lined up (including Global Equity Partners, which would head up the real estate component), but there is no lead investor for the soccer team yet, which is most certainly dependant upon the ability to actually have a place for a team to play.

They haven't given up yet, and while the group is committed to trying to secure a site in the city, they aren't likely to say no to a suburban location if things happen to line up in favor of one.

There really is no benefit to a developer-financed TIF. Any TIF that the City does can have gaurantees built into it where the developer has to make the tax payments even if the value of the property doesn't meet expectations. That was the case in the PabstCity TIF.

The main reason why developer-financed TIFs aren't a better deal for the City is because a private developer has to pay a higher interest rate than the City to borrow money. Thus, it takes longer for the TIF to be paid off...and therefore takes longer for the property to get back on the tax rolls.

edit: i should make it clear that I am all for the soccer stadium and surrounding development and would prefer to see it in the ICC parking lots or somewhere further south towards Walker's Point..but there isn't much room.

somewhere further south towards Walker's Point..but there isn't much room.

Aren't they tearing down the old tech high school around 4th and national? They could possibly place it in that area, but would have to probably take out some existing housing in the area...

Or they could use the land east of 1st/kk and south of national towards the river. It has a for sale sign and I know some Chicago developers have been looking at it. Taking the Amtrak to Chicago shows just how much space is left there..

MLS should award Milwaukee a franchise first. The last thing Milwaukee needs is a St. Pete's situation where a stadium is built and then wait 20 years for a franchise to come in. It would also be a useful catalyst to get a stadium project taken seriously. MLS is bush league. No city should bend over backwards to get them .. even if there are 8000 season ticket commitments, its such a niche audience there isnt much of a general market to go beyond those 8000 .. crowds at MLS games are usually pretty lame.

Aren't they tearing down the old tech high school around 4th and national? They could possibly place it in that area, but would have to probably take out some existing housing in the area...

The old Tech High School is being demolished to make way for the new school's athletic fields (football and some basketball and/or tennis courts.) It's a good site for high school athletic facilities, but way too small for a full-blown MLS stadium. Furthermore, the developers don't want to level an existing neighborhood in order to build their own mixed-use projects. The financial and logistical barriers (having to acquire all kinds of separate prperties from different owners, displacing residents, etc.) would add tremendous costs to the project.

That's why the developers are looking for a single large chunk of land on which to build their stuff, which would require about 30 or so acres...

Or they could use the land east of 1st/kk and south of national towards the river. It has a for sale sign and I know some Chicago developers have been looking at it. Taking the Amtrak to Chicago shows just how much space is left there..

And speaking of single large chunks of land, the old Milwaukee Solvay & Coke site would be an ideal site for the soccer proposal. It's vacant. It's got one owner. It's 46 acres large. It's on several bus lines. It has pretty good freeway access right between National Avenue and Beecher Street. It has lots of river frontage. It's right in the middle of the upper section of Walker's Point and Bay View, both neighborhoods that are in the process of reviatlization. It has a lot of potential.

It also has a new owner who is looking to redevelop the property. Whether or not the new owners, and the City, would be interested in going the direction of a soccer stadium anchored by a significant mixed-use remains to be seen. I wouldn't be surprised if the soccer developers have looked into it already.

MLS should award Milwaukee a franchise first.

That's not going to happen. MLS has gone on record saying no city will be awarded a new franchise if there are no arrangements in place for a stadium in which that franchise could play.

That's not going to happen. MLS has gone on record saying no city will be awarded a new franchise if there are no arrangements in place for a stadium in which that franchise could play.

MLS would really have to want a franchise here because the only way its possible is if MLS and financiers work together.. while financiers work with the city. Its not going to happen because MLS isnt profitable. Its a second rate league demanding first rate facilities.. Milwaukee isnt that desperate.

Has any city built a soccer stadium in an attempt to lure MLS? I think all franchises that now have their own stadium originially used NFL stadiums.

Has any city built a soccer stadium in an attempt to lure MLS? I think all franchises that now have their own stadium originially used NFL stadiums.

You are correct in saying that all existing MLS teams which have their own stadiums today started out playing at other venues (NFL and college stadia). Only a few still do not play in their own stadia.

I believe Toronto was awarded an MLS franchise after the city made a commitment to build a soccer stadium. Though to be fair, it was in the works for a while before it had ties to MLS. It was part of Canada's bid to host the FIFA U-20 World Cup Canada 2007. The stadium will be completed so the team can start playing for the 2007 season. But the fact that Toronto was bulding the stadium was the key factor in MLS putting an expansion team there.

The Toronto scenario is a bit different than the Milwaukee scenario, in that theirs is a mostly publically-funded stadium, whereas ours would not be. Nor is theirs tied to an adjacent mixed-use proposal.

From everything I've heard about the Milwaukee MLS effort, we're a lock for a team provided there's a stadium for them to play (we have no suitable temporary alternative). So it's not supposed to be a situation where a stadium gets built and then wait around for someone to decide to put a team here.

Milwaukee doesnt really need the MLS. Sure, it would be cool to have a new team and a new stadium--but we have to admit that Milwaukee has an over abundance of entertainment in the summer. I have changed my opinion on the MLS so many times....but I do like the idea of a soccer stadium, a mixed use one especially. The location I would like to see is of course in the Third Ward. Soccer could thrive here due to the area really taking off with international minded proffesionals and a very large Latino population base minutes away. I also think this location would be great--because it would be right by Summerfest, the Art Museum, Pier Wisconsin, etc. There could be a nice spillover effect after games or even into the stadium from all the people who are down in this area in the summer months. Throw in some resturants, sports bar, music joint, shops, etc. and this location could be the hottest spot in the city for attracting people downtown.

and speaking of stadiums.....I know you are all going to call me a nut, but what about a bullfighting arena down on the Southside somewhere? How bad ass would it be to have an urban American bullfighting arena that could be used for other rodeo events? It would never fly...but this country and city is seeing some serious Mexican immigration.....surely we could find people who would attend? Think of how cool it would be to have something like this apart of that Latin District thing.

What a stereotypical thing to say! Do they even have bullfighting arenas in Mexico?

What a stereotypical thing to say! Do they even have bullfighting arenas in Mexico?

Yes, there are bullrings in Mexico, including the world's largest in Mexico City.

But it's not like bullfighting is a big national sport down there. Soccer, on the other hand, is pretty huge in Mexico.

In my opinion MLS is a foolish league for thinking it can compete head to head in baseball markets. So let me ask, would you rather have a MLS franchise or an MLB franchise (Brewers)? I think it is foolishness to have an MLS franchise in a city that is in the so called smallest market in MLB. What makes MLS so foolish is that sure, we will try and look at cities that have established baseball clubs but not look at places that maybe equally as large or larger as Milwaukee and not cosider putting a team in a market for them (MLS) where they wouldn't be competing for the same or competing sports league dollar. So again I ask, what would you rather have an MLS franchise or MLB's Brewers? I mean there is only so much money a smaller market can support, or am I wrong?

What a stereotypical thing to say! Do they even have bullfighting arenas in Mexico?

not streotypical at all. Like Markitect said, they watch it down there..but it aint bigger than soccer.

In my opinion MLS is a foolish league for thinking it can compete head to head in baseball markets. So let me ask, would you rather have a MLS franchise or an MLB franchise (Brewers)? I think it is foolishness to have an MLS franchise in a city that is in the so called smallest market in MLB. What makes MLS so foolish is that sure, we will try and look at cities that have established baseball clubs but not look at places that maybe equally as large or larger as Milwaukee and not cosider putting a team in a market for them (MLS) where they wouldn't be competing for the same or competing sports league dollar. So again I ask, what would you rather have an MLS franchise or MLB's Brewers? I mean there is only so much money a smaller market can support, or am I wrong?

Different audiences?

Hell yeah, I can picture a huge bullfighting arena in Milwaukee. That would be awesome.

Is the owner of the Solvay site the same guy that's owned it for the last few years? This is the guy who bought it from the holding company in about '02 and has done a lot of environmental work on the site. At one time he had a grandiose plan for a marina, condo and office towers and retail.

Mexican immigrants are kind of a sore issue now..

I was just driving westbound on I-94 this morning at 8am and just before the 76th bridge there is a pedestrian bridge and two people were holding up a banner quite long,
i saw it from behind at first because they were pointing the banner towards the traffic heading into milwaukee (eastbound)
the sign had white letters with a black background
it read
Homosexuality Is A Sin,
Never seen anything like it,

I guess they think there are alot of closet homos that live in the suburbs and work in the city, or maybe they are just energizing their base?

I was just driving westbound on I-94 this morning at 8am and just before the 76th bridge there is a pedestrian bridge and two people were holding up a banner quite long,
i saw it from behind at first because they were pointing the banner towards the traffic heading into milwaukee (eastbound)
the sign had white letters with a black background
it read
Homosexuality Is A Sin,
Never seen anything like it,

I guess they think there are alot of closet homos that live in the suburbs and work in the city, or maybe they are just energizing their base?

Or they have nothing better to do with their lives than worry about someone elses..

And now for another post unrelated to the MLS talk... a unique downtown perspective:

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/310/outthewindow0pu.jpg

Markitect> Yes the MLS group did look at the Milwaukee Solvay & Coke location, the problem with it is access. If I remember correctly to get in and out of the site is very difficult (something about a train bridge) especially if you consider 15,000 fans.

MLS thread> There is absolutely no fear of Milwaukee building a staidum and then having to wait for MLS, if Milwaukee annouces a location and investor it will be a problem of how fast can you build it.

nice picture milwaukee mark, very exciting,
i really like your style!
keep it up!

I was just driving westbound on I-94 this morning at 8am and just before the 76th bridge there is a pedestrian bridge and two people were holding up a banner quite long,
i saw it from behind at first because they were pointing the banner towards the traffic heading into milwaukee (eastbound)
the sign had white letters with a black background
it read
Homosexuality Is A Sin,
Never seen anything like it,

I guess they think there are alot of closet homos that live in the suburbs and work in the city, or maybe they are just energizing their base?

These same people held that same sign outside my school earlier this year, and I heard outside other high schools too. It was pretty funny cause it was so random and everybody just walked by them telling them to get a job. I think they belong to Mercy Seat Christian Church in West Allis, probably one of those extremist churches who think its ok to protest at funurals too. If we just ignore them maybe they'll go away.

THURSDAY, June 8, 2006, 11:15 a.m.
By Tom Daykin

Pabst considered a Milwaukee return
Pabst Brewing Co. executives considered Milwaukee as a possible site for the company's relocated headquarters but instead chose the Chicago area because it provides better air travel connections, and a larger and more diverse labor pool, Pabst President Kevin Kotecki said today.

"We did consider Wisconsin, and Milwaukee," Kotecki said. "It's a fine location. But Chicago made more sense."

Kotecki spoke to the Journal Sentinel one day after it was announced that Pabst, which originated in Milwaukee, would move its corporate offices from San Antonio, Texas, to Woodridge, Ill., a Chicago suburb. Illinois will provide almost $1 million in financial assistance to help with the relocation.

The headquarters, which will move in July, will initially have 31 jobs, with roughly half of those positions moving from San Antonio, Kotecki said. The other remaining positions will be filled with new hires, he said.



THURSDAY, June 8, 2006, 11:51 a.m.
By Tom Daykin

Offices planned at Plankinton Arcade
Two floors within downtown Milwaukee's Plankinton Arcade building have been sold to a local developer, who said today he plans to remodel the space and market it to office users.

Sunset Investors bought the space, totaling around 83,000 square feet, for an undisclosed price. The space had a listed sales price of $2.6 million, according to Equity Commercial Real Estate LLC. Tom Gale of Equity Commercial was the sale broker.

The floors comprise the last remaining portion of the 90-year-old Plankinton Arcade, 161 W. Wisconsin Ave., that hasn't been remodeled, said Kendall Breunig, Sunset Investors president.

And now for another post unrelated to the MLS talk... a unique downtown perspective:

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/310/outthewindow0pu.jpg
:eek2: wow! that picture is amazing! looks like it could be in miami, no one in the US would expect that shot out of milwaukee! wow!

Is the owner of the Solvay site the same guy that's owned it for the last few years? This is the guy who bought it from the holding company in about '02 and has done a lot of environmental work on the site. At one time he had a grandiose plan for a marina, condo and office towers and retail.

That's the guy who recently sold it, or is supposed to be selling it (not quite sure if it's all been finalized yet) to some new owners...Kinnickinnic Development Group. These new owners have been working with Kalher Slater on a redevelopment plan for the site. I seem to recall DCD would like to see housing and retail built there.

Yes the MLS group did look at the Milwaukee Solvay & Coke location, the problem with it is access. If I remember correctly to get in and out of the site is very difficult (something about a train bridge) especially if you consider 15,000 fans.

Yes, the site is currently only accessible via Greenfield Avenue, which passes beneath the heavily-use railroad tracks through a narrow underpass. But since the rail lne is up on an embankment along that whole stretch it would be relatively easy, though expensve, to punch at least one more street beneath the tracks to penetrate the site...perhaps even some pedestrian tunnels. Maple Street would be a good candidate, it dead ends on the other side of the tracks. This would create a northern access point at Greenfield and a southern access point at Maple. The MCTS Kinnickinnic bus terminal is also right across the tracks from the site, so there ought to be ample opportunities for transit riders as well.

you know a good thing that could come out of the MLS bid for a stadium is that they could possibly build it to feature football as well. Then UWM would have an adaquet football stadium. Panther Football anyone ?

Panther Football anyone ?


fuck yeah!

Yes, the site is currently only accessible via Greenfield Avenue, which passes beneath the heavily-use railroad tracks through a narrow underpass. But since the rail lne is up on an embankment along that whole stretch it would be relatively easy, though expensve, to punch at least one more street beneath the tracks to penetrate the site...perhaps even some pedestrian tunnels. Maple Street would be a good candidate, it dead ends on the other side of the tracks. This would create a northern access point at Greenfield and a southern access point at Maple. The MCTS Kinnickinnic bus terminal is also right across the tracks from the site, so there ought to be ample opportunities for transit riders as well.

spoken like a true grandmaster of urban planning
we are indeed lucky to have you on the board,
i really, really love urban planning and i dont think ill ever have half of your knowledge, thanks for the input!

and ive been lurking on a bit of the north amercian board,
we are very lucky to have you as a resource!

Marquette Football :)

Oddly there were discussions with one of the two schools about football but nothing happened there.

Developers Steve Stewart and Brian Kliesmet have formed a partnership to build a mixed-use high-rise building with a 76-room boutique hotel near the North Avenue entertainment district on Milwaukee's east side. Stewart, president of Milwaukee-based New Vision Development Co. LLC, and Kliesmet, president of Milwaukee-based Land Acquisitions & Investments LLC, say their partnership for the project is East Side Hoteliers LLC. Kliesmet is doing some of the design work for the project. The east side currently has no hotels, but the developers say one is badly needed to serve the neighborhood, which includes the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and Columbia St. Mary's Hospital. "We just think (the hotel) can be a real asset for everybody," Stewart said. "I just think it's going to be really great for the community. I'm very excited about this."

If approved by City of Milwaukee officials, the building would be constructed on a pair of adjacent parking lots just north of the U.S. Bank branch at 2303 N. Farwell Ave. The lots are located between Farwell and Murray avenues and just south of Thomas Avenue. One of the lots is owned by U.S. Bank, and the other is owned by the City of Milwaukee. Stewart and Kliesmet have an exclusive option for a long-term lease of the U.S. Bank lot, and they are having discussions with city officials about purchasing the city's lot. The hotel might be part of a national chain. "We're interviewing flags right now," Kliesmet said. The hotel's features would include a small swimming pool, an exercise area, conference and banquet facilities and a restaurant.

Stewart said they already have letters of intent from a restaurant and an office tenant for the building. He declined to name those potential tenants. The building plans include a 4,000-square-foot, first-floor restaurant at the corner of Thomas and Farwell avenues and a 3,500-square-foot retail space at the corner of Thomas and Murray avenues. The developers' plans also include major improvements to Thomas Avenue by adding more landscaping and replacing the street pavement with colored bricks or colored stamped concrete. "We want to create character on Thomas," Kliesmet said. However, Stewart and Kliesmet have had to scale back their plans for the development. Originally they wanted to build a 14-story building with 90,000 square feet of commercial space for retail or office tenants, the 76-room hotel, 15 condominiums ranging between 1,000 square feet and 3,100 square feet in size and 350 indoor parking spaces.

City Planner Robert Greenstreet and other city staffers met with Stewart recently and told him that the originally proposed building was too large for the site. "We've given them some guidance on adjusting their plan to better fit the needs of the neighborhood," said Department of City Development spokeswoman Andrea Rowe Richards. Stewart and Kliesmet say they are working with city officials to tweak the project and already are adjusting their plans. They now plan to have three of the parking levels underground, instead of two as originally planned, which will reduce the building's height by one story. The parking will be used by the building's tenants, the U.S. Bank branch and customers patronizing other area businesses.

They are also considering plans to eliminate one floor of the condominiums, Kliesmet said. In addition, they are making architectural changes to the building. "We've got to scale it back down," Stewart said. "Not a tremendous amount of changes, just a few." "Bob Greenstreet is working with us on the design of the building to make it feel more pedestrian friendly," Kliesmet said. The goal for the project is to help create "higher livable density," which will invigorate the city and discourage urban sprawl, he said. The hotel and the commercial space will not be scaled back, Kliesmet said. The city officials did not provide a height limit for the project, Stewart said. By comparison, the new Columbia St. Mary's Hospital will be 10 stories and 242 feet high when its $417 million project is complete less than two blocks away from the site of the proposed hotel.

Stewart and Kliesmet strongly believe their project will enhance the east side. The hotel will be especially beneficial to UWM and Columbia St. Mary's, Stewart said. "This is going to be the crowning jewel to the Columbia St. Mary's campus," Kliesmet said. UWM, which has about 28,000 students and about 3,500 employees, is located about nine blocks north of the proposed hotel site. A large number of people visit the university each year, including parents visiting their children who are students at the school, parents and potential students taking campus tours, people attending conferences at the university, guest lecturers, athletes and fans attending sporting events, friends and family members attending graduation ceremonies, and people attending or participating in arts events at the university.

UWM does not keep track of how many visitors it hosts each year, said Tom Luljak, vice chancellor of university relations. However, as the school has attracted more students from outside of the metropolitan Milwaukee area, more people are traveling from outside of the area to visit the school, he said. "I would say (the number of visitors) is enormous," Luljak said. "We really do bring people in from around the country for various functions throughout the course of the year." Currently, out-of-town visitors to UWM are mostly staying at hotels in downtown Milwaukee or in Glendale, Luljak said. Those visitors would likely prefer to stay at a hotel closer to campus. "For the people who have some connections to UWM, a facility that is within walking distance or a short car ride away from the campus would appeal to a certain segment," Luljak said.

Near Stewart and Kliesmet's proposed hotel site, Columbia St. Mary's construction project will consolidate the Columbia and St. Mary's hospitals. The project includes the five-story Prospect Medical Commons building, which will provide space for a Whole Foods store and medical offices. Out-of-town visitors of patients at Columbia St. Mary's usually stay at hotels downtown or in Glendale, said Paul Westrick, vice president of external and government relations for the hospital. "Having (a hotel) within walking distance, or a short cab ride (to the hospital) would be a real benefit," he said. "It's something we are really interested in seeing develop in the area." About 10 to 15 percent of the hospital's inpatient visits are people from outside the area, he said.

"The burn center draws from northern Illinois, most of Wisconsin and the upper peninsula of Michigan," Westrick said. Some of the hospital's specialty programs draw people from around the country. Other development in the growing east side area includes Park Lafayette, which will have about 290 condominiums in two 20-story buildings. They will be built by Renaissant Development Group LLC on a vacant lot at Prospect and Lafayette avenues, located about five blocks from the proposed hotel site. Construction is expected to begin this year and be complete by 2008. In addition, Weas Development Co. and the Milwaukee Development Corp. are converting the Kenilworth Building into two buildings with space for the UWM Peck School of the Arts, UWM student housing and retail space. The buildings are located at 1925 E. Kenilworth Place, about a block from the proposed hotel site. The $68 million Kenilworth project is expected to be completed later this year.

UWM also plans to build a six-story student apartment building just north of North Avenue, about one block east of Humboldt Boulevard. The building would have 119 units and could house up to 488 students. As the east side and the area near North Avenue continue to grow, some say the neighborhood needs a hotel. Business owners in the area respond favorably when they hear rumors about a hotel development on the east side, said Jim Plaisted, executive director of the East North Avenue Business Improvement District (BID). "If you are looking at a regional map of hotel locations, you are looking at a big gap between downtown and Glendale," Plaisted said. "I think (the east side) is a great market for a hotel."
Stewart and Kleismet are not the only developers thinking about bringing a hotel to the east side. Ogden & Co. wanted to build a 43-room boutique hotel, with 10,000 square feet of retail space, on a city-owned parking lot at 2574 N. Downer Ave. The site is about half a mile northeast of Stewart and Kleismet's site.

Ogden responded to a request for proposals (RFP) from the city seeking development proposals for the property. However, staff at the Department of City Development decided not to recommend any of them, including the Ogden hotel proposal. City officials balked at Ogden & Co.'s request for about $1.5 million in tax incremental financing (TIF). By comparison, Stewart and Kliesmet are, "not asking for any public assistance" for their project Kliesmet said. The Downer Avenue hotel project is dead for now, said Tom Neubauer, an associate with Ogden Development Group. The company may tweak and re-submit its proposal to the city once another RFP is issued for the property.

"We may take another swing at it," Neubauer said. "We think that for the area from UWM south to the new Columbia St. Mary's Hospital, and institutions in between, (a hotel) would be a very welcome addition, especially at the scale we were proposing." An east side hotel would not compete with the downtown hotel properties that rely on tourists, business travelers and convention attendees, said Doug Neilson, president and chief executive officer of Visit Milwaukee. "I'm not sure (if the east side needs a hotel)," he said. "I would think there would be a niche for it." The east side hotel project is not the first that Stewart and Kliesmet have worked on together. They also are partnering to develop an $11 million, five-story building at the corner of West Greenfield Avenue and South 64th Street in West Allis. The building will have 22,000 square feet of retail space on the first floor and 42 condominiums on the upper floors. The condos will be priced between $164,000 and $349,000. Construction is expected to begin this fall and be completed in the fall of 2007.

Stewart is also a partner with the River Renaissance development in Milwaukee's Historic Third Ward and the City Center development in New Berlin. River Renaissance is a seven-story building under construction at the corner of Water and Erie streets and along the Milwaukee River. The building will have 80 condos and 20,000 square feet of retail space. Construction began last year and is expected to be complete next year. For the City Center project, located at National Avenue and Coffee Road in New Berlin, Stewart is handling development of 70,000 square feet of retail space, a 30,000-square-foot medical clinic and 20,000 square feet of office space.

Can the Downtown Support Several New Hotels?

Several hotels have been proposed in recent months for downtown Milwaukee, and the city's hotel room capacity is on the verge of rising dramatically. Some of the proposed new sites are located less than three miles of the site of a proposed new hotel on Milwaukee's east side (see accompanying story):
-- Chicago-based RSC & Associates plans to build two 140-room hotels in the Park East corridor.
-- Weas Development Co. plans to develop a 150-room Renaissance ClubSport by Marriott Hotel in a Historic Third Ward development at the southeast corner of Broadway Street and St. Paul Avenue.
-- Charlotte-based Ghazi Co. has proposed a 32-story building at Fourth Street and Wisconsin Avenue, which would include a hotel.
-- U.S. Bank and JBK Properties want to include a 214-room hotel in the 42-story building they plan to construct just southeast of the U.S. Bank building at 777 E. Wisconsin Ave. The U.S. Bank/JBK project is on hold until they find an anchor office tenant.
-- Badger Pacific Equity Partners wants to develop a small, high-end hotel in a new building or in an existing building in downtown Milwaukee, said Craig Stoehr, co-founder and managing partner of Badger Pacific Equity Partners.

Doug Neilson, president and chief executive officer of Visit Milwaukee, said he thinks the downtown area could support all of the proposed new hotels. Currently there are about 3,500 hotel rooms in the downtown area. The largest hotel is the Hilton Milwaukee City Center with 730 rooms.

Downtown Milwaukee's hotels had an occupancy rate of only about 63 percent last year, Neilson said. However, new attractions and development coming to downtown will provide more visitors to fill the additional hotel rooms, he said. The addition of Discovery World at Pier Wisconsin and the Harley-Davidson Museum will bring more tourists to Milwaukee. Manpower Inc.'s move downtown will bring more business travelers to downtown. Ghazi Co.'s development could include an entertainment component such as a Hard Rock Cafe, House of Blues or ESPN Zone, which would also help attract visitors. The Midwest Airlines Center could have its long-planned 100,000-square-foot third phase built in 2008 or 2009, Neilson said. "You're talking about the evolution of Milwaukee as a destination," he said. "(Downtown Milwaukee) is going to be a different place in two years." Andrew Weiland

June 9, 2006, Small Business Times, Milwaukee, WI

very cool pic Mark!

and good news....you can actually see all of Milwaukee in Google Earth now! Check it out! The density is suprising.

Yes, the site is currently only accessible via Greenfield Avenue, which passes beneath the heavily-use railroad tracks through a narrow underpass. But since the rail lne is up on an embankment along that whole stretch it would be relatively easy, though expensve, to punch at least one more street beneath the tracks to penetrate the site...perhaps even some pedestrian tunnels. Maple Street would be a good candidate, it dead ends on the other side of the tracks. This would create a northern access point at Greenfield and a southern access point at Maple. The MCTS Kinnickinnic bus terminal is also right across the tracks from the site, so there ought to be ample opportunities for transit riders as well.

Are you a PhD?

Getting away to Milwaukee
Chicagoans are finding second lakefront homes in a revitalized and festive downtown filling up with condos and served by Amtrak

By Mary Umberger
Tribune staff reporter
Published June 10, 2006


MILWAUKEE -- Kim McGivern would like to spend her weekends in downtown Chicago, but she says it's just too difficult.

"Chicago is so overcrowded, you can't walk. Downtown has gotten so expensive, you can't afford anything there. To park your car is ridiculous," said McGivern, a Northbrook resident who nonetheless wanted to invest in an urban getaway where she could take in the parks, the arts scene, the summer festivals.

So she bought a condo in downtown Milwaukee.

McGivern is part of a noticeable trend: Chicagoans who are buying real estate in that "other" downtown in order to enjoy lakefront weekends in a place where they say the pace is lively and urban, yet the price and the congestion seem more manageable.

They--and the city's promoters--say buying a second home in the heart of Milwaukee would seem odd only to those who haven't paid a recent visit to this revitalized city, which would like very much for Chicagoans to get over the stereotype of a Milwaukee populated by beer-swilling cheeseheads, of Laverne and Shirley skipping down the sidewalk to their jobs at a brewery.

"People say it doesn't fit with what I think Milwaukee is like," said Nancy O'Keefe, executive director of a civic group that promotes the Historic Third Ward neighborhood, a thriving 12-square-block area of boutiques, galleries, restaurants and theaters.

O'Keefe said that her neighborhood's attractions, plus the city's summer-long series of festivals along the nearby lakefront and a significant civic investment in museums and other tourist attractions, have caught Chicagoans' eyes.

"The 312s and 847s on my caller ID have increased dramatically in the last year," agreed Beth Savas, who handles sales for First Place on the River, a warehouse being transformed into condos.

That development is in the Fifth Ward neighborhood, across the river from the Third. Within the two places, Chicagoans are buying second homes among about 900 new and planned condos, where the developers promise upscale shopping, dining, boating and entertainment that's literally steps from their doorways.

If that marketing pitch sounds familiar, it's because it's the one that drew thousands of residents to formerly barren stretches of near-downtown Chicago neighborhoods in the past decade, creating an energy level that some now say is a little over the top for them.

So seekers of urban amusements are looking north. Several developers estimate 10 to 12 percent of recent buyers in downtown Milwaukee are from Illinois, though it's difficult to differentiate how many will use their Wisconsin real estate on a part-time, leisure basis as opposed to relocating there permanently.

The developers said they didn't market their condos to Chicagoans and so were surprised when they began turning up on their doorsteps.

Their Chicago buyers are typically empty nesters who not only feel stressed out by their own downtown, but priced out, too.

"Our typical Chicago buyers are north suburban residents," said Robert B. Monnat, chief operating officer of the Mandel Group, which is developing Marine Terminal Lofts in the Third Ward.

"They say, `I've lived in Chicago for years, I need a break,'" Monnat said. "It's as easy to come to Milwaukee as to the Loop. They can buy for half the price, or less."

Other developers peg the price ratio at 60 percent for comparable Chicago units. In any case, they aren't giving the places away: Many Third Ward and Fifth Ward condos are luxury units priced from $400,000 to upwards of $1 million--though some others tout $170,000 to $180,000 price tags for one-bedroom, riverfront addresses.

Many of the buildings offer the lifestyle trappings that have become symbols of upscale downtown living--ground-floor restaurants that offer room service to residents, indoor parking, concierges, etc.

Then there are the 100 or so boat slips that several buildings are selling or leasing. The developers say they're a magnet for Chicagoans.

Developer Peter Renner, for example, has sold 20 of 22 boat slips he's offering at Hansen's Landing, about a 5-minute river cruise from the lake. The slips, which sit literally beneath the windows of the people who own them, sold quickly for $1,000 a linear foot of dock space, he said. Others along the dock are leased.

"This is pocket change, compared to Chicago," Renner says.

Outright ownership of boat slips is a novelty in Chicago, where most are leased through the park district. A few waterfront buildings downtown do sell slips, and some homes and developments in neighborhoods along the Chicago River have their own docking facilities.

Although they don't own a boat, Ed and Sarah Stritch, who have lived in downtown Chicago for 16 years, bought a slip at Hansen's Landing as an investment. They bought a condo that overlooks it as an investment, too, with the intention of selling it a year after purchasing it last September.

Now they're on the verge of buying a boat. And they're keeping the Milwaukee condo for getaways. They sometimes spend several weekends a month there, occasionally arriving via Amtrak, whose Milwaukee station is a seven-minute walk from their condo.

In Milwaukee, they dine out, they shop, they go to festivals, they bike, Ed said.

"The neighborhood is getting livelier every day," he said. "You almost see the Chicago of 8 or 10 years ago--what was going on in the West Loop."

Unwinding in a city environment reflects a changed view of our vacation expectations, housing analysts say.

"This is not your father's idea of a vacation, but it's a Baby Boomer's," said Savas. "Many years back, a vacation destination was to a lake in Wisconsin. Our dad would haul us to a cottage that was so much work for my mother. Boomers are asking for conveniences."

The northward pull from Chicago probably means that the 90-mile gap between the two cities is closing--that Milwaukee is verging on becoming a distant suburb of Chicago, said John McIlwain, housing fellow at the Urban Land Institute in Washington, which studies development trends.

"It's becoming all one big metropolitan area," McIlwain said. "It's been heading north for some time, and (Chicago) is now encompassing Milwaukee. I think (that Chicagoans purchasing vacation homes there) makes it all complete."

Agreement is not universal.

"Milwaukee has been overshadowed by Chicago," said developer Monnat. "But it is fiercely independent in terms of its identity."

Sales agent Savas said she knows that some Chicagoans have a certain disdain for Milwaukee. "That kind of snobbery exists everywhere, though. We in Milwaukee have that feeling about northern Wisconsin. Look at Parisians and their view of everything outside Paris."

Former Milwaukee Mayor John Norquist, who now works and lives in Chicago, said the attitude was less of disdain than obliviousness.

"Chicagoans didn't think about Milwaukee at all," he said. Now, he said, easy access to the town, particularly by train, has made them take notice.

"That's part of the reason that Chicagoans are colonizing downtown Milwaukee."

McGivern said that though some Chicagoans might not get Milwaukee, the word is out that the town makes for a great escape--though she's not entirely sure that's a good thing.

"I swear, every time I go up there and meet people, they're all from Chicago," she said. "In a couple of years, it might be a pain in the butt to live there."

interesting article

speaking of chicago and milwaukee growing together, we should think of a name to call the emerging supermetro (other than chicagoland) There's Southern california, the Bay area, Eastern seaboard, ect. Maybe the Southwest Michigan Shore? Or Michigan Southshore?

very cool pic Mark!

and good news....you can actually see all of Milwaukee in Google Earth now! Check it out! The density is suprising.

I was just going to point this out.

The imagery is really recent...looks like late last summer. The Whole Foods/CSM site is excavated, and construction on the Sterling, Pier WI, and UCT are all visible. Oh, and that little freeway project thingy.

I'm especially thrilled to see that, after making us wait for a billion years to get coverage, they put up imagery of summer Milwaukee. It looks so healthy and green! Oh, and the wings on the MAM are open. :D

interesting article

speaking of chicago and milwaukee growing together, we should think of a name to call the emerging supermetro (other than chicagoland) There's Southern california, the Bay area, Eastern seaboard, ect. Maybe the Southwest Michigan Shore? Or Michigan Southshore?

Do we need anymore reasons to extend that Metra to Milwaukee, and extend it sooner rather than later. I guess first what we really need is a remodeled amtrak station that can accomodate the metra and maybe even some highspeed trains from chicago.

I was just going to point this out.

The imagery is really recent...looks like late last summer. The Whole Foods/CSM site is excavated, and construction on the Sterling, Pier WI, and UCT are all visible. Oh, and that little freeway project thingy.

I'm especially thrilled to see that, after making us wait for a billion years to get coverage, they put up imagery of summer Milwaukee. It looks so healthy and green! Oh, and the wings on the MAM are open. :D


do i need to download an update or something? it's still the same old low-res pic for me

Nice Chicago Tribune article about downtown Milwaukee. But they just couldn't leave that damn stupid stereotypical LaVerne & Shirley reference out of the article could they. May Garry Marshall go to hell!!!

As far as what to call the megapolitan area which would include a combined Chicago and Milwaukee metropolitan areas, how about calling it the Tri-State Area?

don't they usually call the NY metro the tri-state area? but it could work for chicago -milwaukee too.

interesting article

speaking of chicago and milwaukee growing together, we should think of a name to call the emerging supermetro (other than chicagoland) There's Southern california, the Bay area, Eastern seaboard, ect. Maybe the Southwest Michigan Shore? Or Michigan Southshore?

How about Chiwaukee.

don't they usually call the NY metro the tri-state area? but it could work for chicago -milwaukee too.
Yeah, I think you're right. I'll have to think about an alternate name.

How about Chiwaukee.


I like this one!

Chilwaukee... gotta have the 'L' in there

or Milago? Micago? Chilwaugo?

nah those names are terrible. i give up

Last year The Milwaukee Athletic Club was looking to redevelop their parking structure and the empty lot behind it into a multi use building. The parking structure is on the corner of Milwaukee and Wells and was going to feature street level retail on the Milwaukee St. side. Has anyone heard if they are still pursuing this?

Chilwaukee... gotta have the 'L' in there

or Milago? Micago? Chilwaugo?

nah those names are terrible. i give up

Chicaukee.

I forgot to mention that the structure is close on July 3rd for renovations and is expected to be closed through I believe early next year.. no specifics on what the renovations will be though. Anyone know specifics?

I think that was one (there where a few) of the propsed locations that Quarles & Brady was going to move into but when they ended up staying in the 411 all that went on hold again.

Chicaukee.

Milcaukeego

Milcaukeego

Chicamilwaukeego, Wisillisconsinois.

Wisillisconsinois.

win!

WEDNESDAY, June 14, 2006, 4:24 p.m.
By Tom Daykin
Prospect Cinema to close after 30 years
Prospect Mall Cinema will close after Sunday's shows, cinema owner Marcus Theatres Corp. said today.

The closing of the cinema, 2239 N. Prospect Ave., had been expected. The three-screen theater's lease ends June 30, and the real estate investors who bought Prospect Mall in 2004 are expected to propose a redevelopment plan for the building.

The decision to not renew or extend the lease was "by mutual agreement," according to Marcus.

Marcus Theatres has operated the cinema since July 1976.

It's funny how you guys were going through all those chiwaukee things when a headline in the Wisconsin State Journal was "Madwaukee" and was talking about how Madison and Milwaukee were growing together along I-94

It's funny how you guys were going through all those chiwaukee things when a headline in the Wisconsin State Journal was "Madwaukee" and was talking about how Madison and Milwaukee were growing together along I-94

hmmm....I didn't think that Milwaukee and Madison were growing together, since there's practically nothing between Oconomowoc and Madison.

http://image.maps.yahoo.com/mapimage?MAPDATA=YuNiTOd6wXUdxjozGYRAf8vmh1OI0pz7WNV1TpkWs2UUUHh8RvICJJFhlhgcG0JfiUMWQVJGcuD8w2_N_1HQEkJyLDNKMiObcY2Zb772NwBCZrLvjCOCuhrIzzjEGDqckeDrjfGUBsMmrvSTwGyzYUX7Ha1ib7Eh

hmmm....I didn't think that Milwaukee and Madison were growing together, since there's practically nothing between Oconomowoc and Madison.


Your point is taken, but you really should read the article before jumping on that bandwagon. Not that they are very substantial, but I wouldn't call Johnson Creek, Jefferson, Fort Atkinson, Watertown, Lake Mills, Waterloo, Marshall, Deerfield, Sun Prairie, and Cottage Grove "nothing".

Article:
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/biz/index.php?ntid=87120

The WSJ article has changed my thinking on the matter of Madison and Milwaukee growing together. I used to think that by 2020 you would see very little countryside between Mad and Mil, but having read about the strict land use controls in Jefferson County, I don't think you're going to see much suburbanization along I-94 much past Oconomowoc, except in select pockets.

I think the most likely scenario is that Lake Mills and Johnson Creek will see substantial development along I-94. Johnson Creek will build upon the outlet mall to add residential and office, the selling point of which would be Creek's location midway between Milwaukee and Madison. In this sense Johnson Creek will become Milwaukee's westernmost suburb and Madison's easternmost suburb. Lake Mills will see a similar thing happen but on a smaller scale.

Imagine a joint Madison-Milwaukee technology research park in Johnson Creek where new ideas coming out of the Madison research powerhouse are matched with capital coming out of Milwaukee. A high speed rail line would connect Mil and Mad, with the central axis at Johnson Creek, which would become as synonymous with "high tech" as it is now with "outlet mall." A guy can dream.

I forgot to mention that the structure is close on July 3rd for renovations and is expected to be closed through I believe early next year.. no specifics on what the renovations will be though. Anyone know specifics?

I really wish that by "renovations" they meant "destroy the building," but I guess anything would be an improvement over what it looks like now.

The WSJ article has changed my thinking on the matter of Madison and Milwaukee growing together. I used to think that by 2020 you would see very little countryside between Mad and Mil, but having read about the strict land use controls in Jefferson County, I don't think you're going to see much suburbanization along I-94 much past Oconomowoc, except in select pockets.

I think the most likely scenario is that Lake Mills and Johnson Creek will see substantial development along I-94. Johnson Creek will build upon the outlet mall to add residential and office, the selling point of which would be Creek's location midway between Milwaukee and Madison. In this sense Johnson Creek will become Milwaukee's westernmost suburb and Madison's easternmost suburb. Lake Mills will see a similar thing happen but on a smaller scale.

Imagine a joint Madison-Milwaukee technology research park in Johnson Creek where new ideas coming out of the Madison research powerhouse are matched with capital coming out of Milwaukee. A high speed rail line would connect Mil and Mad, with the central axis at Johnson Creek, which would become as synonymous with "high tech" as it is now with "outlet mall." A guy can dream.

Ah yes, the new silicon valley for biotech. It's likely going to take a bunch of public money so you'd need politicians in office willing to take a risk on these type of ventures. Frankly, I don't think this state would be ready for it. Many are still trying to make genetic research illegal. I can't imagine them wanting to fund high-speed trains to sinnerville.

... this just in from Milw. Business Journal:

Mayfair owner to co-develop Pabst Farms retail center
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 11:36 AM CDT Thursday

Pabst Farms Development Inc. has entered into a partnership with the owner of Mayfair Mall to develop a 1-million-square-foot open-air regional shopping center in Oconomowoc.

Under the partnership, Pabst Farms and General Growth Properties Inc., Chicago, will build the retail center on 110 acres at the intersection of Interstate 94 and Highway 67.

The project will feature national department stores, upscale merchants, a multi-screen theater and "top-tier" restaurants in a dynamic pedestrian-friendly environment.

In a statement Thursday, the developers did not disclose a cost of the development or the names of any potential tenants.

General Growth Properties is the owner of 1.07 million-square-foot Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, along with hundreds of other shopping centers and malls across the country.

"General Growth Properties brings tremendous expertise as the nation's second largest owner, manager and developer of shopping centers," said Peter Bell, president of Pabst Farms Development.

The Pabst Farms Town Centre, the name of the new shopping and entertainment complex, is the second phase of retail development planned at Pabst Farms.

The Market Place at Pabst Farms opened last summer. It consists of convenience and service retail including several national retailers like Starbucks and Cingular. It is anchored by a new prototype Pick 'n Save grocery store, which in its first year surpassed new store revenue projections.

Pabst Farms is a 1,500-acre master-planned community being constructed in Oconomowoc that will include retail, residential and commercial developments.

When reading that business journal story only one word comes to mind.




Ikea.

Chase Parking Structure

I forgot to mention that the structure is close on July 3rd for renovations and is expected to be closed through I believe early next year.. no specifics on what the renovations will be though. Anyone know specifics?

Areastudio - Chase Parking Structure (http://www.areastudio.biz/projects/bankone-parking.htm)

hmmm....I didn't think that Milwaukee and Madison were growing together, since there's practically nothing between Oconomowoc and Madison.

The "M2 collaborative" offically became public on May 16, 2006.
The concept developed by Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz, and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, promotes the idea of inter-city cooperation, the establishment of coordinated economic plan for the I-194 corridor, and
the highspeed rail link between Chicago and Minneapolis-St Paul.

i agree milwaukee - madison will grow towards each other, but its got a very long way to go. There would have to be a massive number of people to move between madison and oconomowoc. I don't really consider a strip mall in johnsons creek as even a significant milwaukee -madison infill. But maybe in fifty years it will be a more interesting conversation.

... this just in from Milw. Business Journal:

Mayfair owner to co-develop Pabst Farms retail center
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 11:36 AM CDT Thursday

Pabst Farms Development Inc. has entered into a partnership with the owner of Mayfair Mall to develop a 1-million-square-foot open-air regional shopping center in Oconomowoc.

Under the partnership, Pabst Farms and General Growth Properties Inc., Chicago, will build the retail center on 110 acres at the intersection of Interstate 94 and Highway 67.

The project will feature national department stores, upscale merchants, a multi-screen theater and "top-tier" restaurants in a dynamic pedestrian-friendly environment.

In a statement Thursday, the developers did not disclose a cost of the development or the names of any potential tenants.

General Growth Properties is the owner of 1.07 million-square-foot Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, along with hundreds of other shopping centers and malls across the country.

"General Growth Properties brings tremendous expertise as the nation's second largest owner, manager and developer of shopping centers," said Peter Bell, president of Pabst Farms Development.

The Pabst Farms Town Centre, the name of the new shopping and entertainment complex, is the second phase of retail development planned at Pabst Farms.

The Market Place at Pabst Farms opened last summer. It consists of convenience and service retail including several national retailers like Starbucks and Cingular. It is anchored by a new prototype Pick 'n Save grocery store, which in its first year surpassed new store revenue projections.

Pabst Farms is a 1,500-acre master-planned community being constructed in Oconomowoc that will include retail, residential and commercial developments.

Too bad they're building it in the wrong spot. Of course, General Growth has the clout to overcome the low population base to get retailers to come aboard. The ground zero site for a major lifestyle center would have been at I-94 & Hwy 16 near/at the old GE medical campus. In fact, a major mixed used office, residential and retail development would have been perfect there. Throw in UW-Milwaukee/Waukesha research campus and a light rail stop for good measure. You already have Waukesha county airport there for business/private jets.

Here's some more info on a proposal to demolish the Sentry grocery store and an adjacent long-vacant storefront on N. Oakland Avenue to make way for a new mixed-use development. Previous plans to simply renovate the Sentry store and expand it into the vacant building next door have been dropped. Replacing the grocery store--which is used quite a bit by UWM students and other households living in the surrounding neighborhoods--does not appear to be in the new plans at all.

Instead, the new plans call for a new 4-story building with three upper floors of apartments, a street-level Walgreens (relocating the existing Walgreens just down the street), and an underground parking garage.

More from the Journal Sentinel: Walgreens, housing might replace Sentry (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=436522)

What happened to ReddAlert? I haven't seen him in forever.

yo! ^ :)

If you havent seen me around, then you havent been on here often. I may not have posted on here for awile, but I am all ova the place.

I was looking at skyscraperpage.com on the current construction in Milwaukee. Look at what I stumbled across...

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=47903

Kinda got me excited!

I was looking at skyscraperpage.com on the current construction in Milwaukee. Look at what I stumbled across...

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=47903

Kinda got me excited!

Interesting, thats a fantasy design i would never expect for a milwaukee skyscraper. Now i wish lightning would strike and this could be built

I was looking at skyscraperpage.com on the current construction in Milwaukee. Look at what I stumbled across...

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=47903

Kinda got me excited!
What I would like to know is, who's "fantasy" building is this? I mean, who's the developer that's having this fantasy. And is this a very recent fantasy, or is it one of those "never built" jokes? Is it going to be proposed fairly soon? Where did skyscraperpage's cg2 get the idea for his rendering? Can anyone shed some lumens on these questions?

I was looking at skyscraperpage.com on the current construction in Milwaukee. Look at what I stumbled across...

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=47903

Kinda got me excited!


The Kansas City Royals have a better chance at winning the World Series this season than Milwaukee does at ever gettin a building taller than the US Bank. 62 stories, yeah, that'll happen.




BTW, I'm not attacking you, it sometimes just frustrates me that our skyline is so weak

This was posted a few months ago on SSP.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=7246&page=24

The Kansas City Royals have a better chance at winning the World Series this season than Milwaukee does at ever gettin a building taller than the US Bank. 62 stories, yeah, that'll happen.




BTW, I'm not attacking you, it sometimes just frustrates me that our skyline is so weak

I understand what you mean. It would be real cool if that were to get built, but we gotta face reality on this one.

But... it doesn't hurt to fantasize about it!

The Kansas City Royals have a better chance at winning the World Series this season than Milwaukee does at ever gettin a building taller than the US Bank. 62 stories, yeah, that'll happen.

Does that also mean the Kansas City Royals have as good a chance at winning the World Series as the Chicago Cubs do? :lol:

Does that also mean the Kansas City Royals have as good a chance at winning the World Series as the Chicago Cubs do? :lol:


:lol: As a Brewer fan, it really feels good to see the Cubs losing :)

Areastudio - Chase Parking Structure (http://www.areastudio.biz/projects/bankone-parking.htm)

I was hoping for more.. but I guess anything is better than what is already there.

WOW!! Nothin' much going on!

New Orleans to deploy National Guard..

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/19/neworleans.shooting.ap/index.html

Thoughts on this? Would this help in Milwaukee as well?

New Orleans to deploy National Guard.....

Thoughts on this? Would this help in Milwaukee as well?

At this point it is not necessary for such drastic measures here, nor are the circumstances between the two really that similar.

So Barett wants to spend the remaining $91.5 million in federal funds to improve our current Mass Transit system. He'd rather apply the money to new shelters (including live-update text of schedules), and new fuel-efficient buses. If the money isn't spent on the system, he's pushing for the extension of the commuter rail west ( towards State Fair and Miller Park).

When's his term over again?

BIZ JOURNAL: Barrett wants federal funds for transit system (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/19/story3.html)

Condos proposed near Downer Ave. district
A company that has developed condominiums and apartments throughout downtown and Milwaukee's east side wants to build an 11-story condo project just west of the N. Downer Ave. neighborhood business district.

New Land Enterprises hopes to develop a site at the northeast corner of N. Stowell Ave. and E. Webster Place. The development would have around 90 units and 120 enclosed parking spaces, according to neighborhood residents who've been told about the plans.

New Land will have a meeting with neighborhood residents Monday to provide details about the development. That meeting is set for 6:30 p.m. at St. Mark's Episcopal Church, 2618 N. Hackett Ave.

Tim Gokhman, of New Land, said the firm's president, Boris Gokhman, would likely be reluctant to share details about the project prior to giving neighborhood residents a chance to hear next week's presentation. Boris Gokhman didn't return telephone calls today seeking more information.

New Renders for 'The Edge':
http://www.tandemdevelopers.com/img/edge/3.jpg
http://www.tandemdevelopers.com/img/edge/4.jpg
http://www.tandemdevelopers.com/img/edge/5.jpg
http://www.tandemdevelopers.com/img/edge/6.jpg
http://www.tandemdevelopers.com/img/edge/7.jpg

Also Check out this shot from the Sterling Condos site:
http://www.sterlingcondominiums.com/img/gallery/gallery_8.jpg

looking good^. Those condos near Downer are also great news.

Eastsider> What's wrong with upgrading the current system and/or finishing the commuter rail line? (this is the metra I assume). This metra line would connect milwaukee all the way to chicago,but more importantly to Kenosha/Racine.

I REALLY hope that Metra extension happens

I REALLY hope that Metra extension happens

ORRRR - we could all just get personal jet packs ! ! !

New Orleans to deploy National Guard..

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/19/neworleans.shooting.ap/index.html

Thoughts on this? Would this help in Milwaukee as well?


HELLLLLLLL no. Not in Milwaukee. Even in New Orleans, a city beset with monumental social and economic problems right now, it is a REALLY bad pr move. What would it say about Milwaukee if it, a city that has not experienced any disasters of any kind recently, employs the national guard? Probably not very good for the chamber of commerce. Now, if a bunch of large, otherwise tourist-friendly cities such as New York or Chicago sent national guard into their worst neighborhoods, it would be more acceptable. But for now, just....nawww.

Double post.

Check out this story about the latest census estimate. It seems like they never have any good news for the city, or lately inner-ring suburbs either. Anyone else think their numbers seem skewed?

JS ONLINE: Census estimates paint stark contrast in state (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439108)

Check out this story about the latest census estimate. It seems like they never have any good news for the city, or lately inner-ring suburbs either. Anyone else think their numbers seem skewed?

JS ONLINE: Census estimates paint stark contrast in state (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439108)

I really doubt the future is as bleak as the story proposes.. and don't even get me started on the journalism that comes out of the Journal Sentinal. Milwaukee needs a new newspaper.

Hi Everyone:

I'm a student from Milwaukee, living in Denmark. I've been watching the forums for a long time and decided it might be interesting to try and add a little perspective from what i've seen over here.

-Sam

So Barett wants to spend the remaining $91.5 million in federal funds to improve our current Mass Transit system. He'd rather apply the money to new shelters (including live-update text of schedules), and new fuel-efficient buses. If the money isn't spent on the system, he's pushing for the extension of the commuter rail west ( towards State Fair and Miller Park).

When's his term over again?

BIZ JOURNAL: Barrett wants federal funds for transit system (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/19/story3.html)

I think it's acually a better idea to use the money on improving our busses than on the connector. The bus system is already used by hundreds of thousands of people and an improvement in service could help increase ridership, and therefore increase the possibility of Milwaukee getting some sort of actual rail stystem. Real time information, newer busses, a better fare system (with the possibility for moth and year passes), better stops (with shelters and BICYCLE RACKS!) bus lanes, and a central meeting point for busses downtown (like in most european cities) would make the system much faster, more comfortable and easier to use.

Think if we got these busses (currently in use here in Denmark):

http://www.setra.de/englisch/index_english.html

I really doubt the future is as bleak as the story proposes.. and don't even get me started on the journalism that comes out of the Journal Sentinal. Milwaukee needs a new newspaper.
I'm usually an optimistic person in regards to Milwaukee because of all of the new development in the past six years or so, but it does really does concern me with the MPS having one of the lowest graduation rates in the nation. That negative statistic is a future sign of more crime and fewer jobs being created within Milwaukee, IMO.

Rank - 46
City - Milwaukee
Rating - 33.56
Adults - 353305
Not a HS Grad - 25.18%
HS Grad - 30.17%
Some college, no degree - 20.67%
Associate degree - 5.67%
Bachelor's degree - 12.32%
Graduate or professional degree - 6.01%

Source: Bizjournals.com analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data

http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/40.html

Hi Everyone:

I'm a student from Milwaukee, living in Denmark. I've been watching the forums for a long time and decided it might be interesting to try and add a little perspective from what i've seen over here.

-Sam

Welcome. Or, as they say in Denmark "bienvenidos!"

j/k.

Check out this story about the latest census estimate. It seems like they never have any good news for the city, or lately inner-ring suburbs either. Anyone else think their numbers seem skewed?

JS ONLINE: Census estimates paint stark contrast in state (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439108)

The newspaper does seem to put an awful lot of credence into these census estimates. They paint out a very negative picture throughout the article, then at the end tack on something about the mayor questioning the numbers. They fail to mention in the article that these estimates are notorious for being wrong. Instead they offer a bunch of quotes of people who have left the city talking about all the things wrong with the city, and then have the Mayor at the very end citing a few positive signs.

All in all, a very typical MJS article.

I'm usually an optimistic person in regards to Milwaukee because of all of the new development in the past six years or so, but it does really does concern me with the MPS having one of the lowest graduation rates in the nation. That negative statistic is a future sign of more crime and fewer jobs being created within Milwaukee, IMO.

Rank - 46
City - Milwaukee
Rating - 33.56
Adults - 353305
Not a HS Grad - 25.18%
HS Grad - 30.17%
Some college, no degree - 20.67%
Associate degree - 5.67%
Bachelor's degree - 12.32%
Graduate or professional degree - 6.01%

Source: Bizjournals.com analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data

http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/40.html

I think the two greatest problems facing Milwaukee are education and jobs. These two problems are inter-related, and the statistics for both are not pretty.

But I also think that we as Milwaukeeans need to put these numbers in a national context. The abyssmal state of urban schools is a national crisis that has national reprucussions. In 2002, the national graduation rate was 71%, but for African American students it was 56%, and for Hispanics it was 52%. Imagine half the kids in your community not graduating high school. That's what the Black and Hispanic communities in Milwaukee, and nationally, face.

Schools serving low income, minority students perform miserably in almost every city, including those cities that are the most successful otherwise:

Atlanta is by most measurements a very succesful city, but the percentage of people in ATL without HS diplomas is slightly lower than Milwaukee's -- 23% to Milwaukee's 25%.

Minneapolis is routinely cited as one of the great Midwestern success stories, but the Minneapolis Public School District has a four year graduation rate of 42%, with African American students graduating at 30%. link (http://www.mplsfoundation.org/2010/demographics.htm)

Here some other stats:

New York City:

"Only 70 percent of students complete high school, either by obtaining a diploma (60%) or a GED (10%) within seven years of initial enrollment. Only 50 percent complete high school, either with a diploma (46%) or GED (4%) within four years of initial enrollment. These figures are unchanged from the beginning of the 1990s.
Only 44 percent of black students, and only 39 percent of Hispanic students, complete high school within four years."

San Francisco Unified School District:

In 2003, the percentage of students graduating in four years:

White: 82%
Latino: 62%
African American: 57%
All Students: 77%

Hey everyone. I've been a casual reader of these forums for awhile now and figured i'd start throwing in my opinions.
I start at UWM this fall(from Madison) and plan on majoring in a global cities track through the global studies major, which deals with international architecture and urbanization. So anyways, I spend alot of time in Milwaukee and enjoy seeing the progress made there, as i know you all do too. So I look forward to some good discussion on here.see you around. :)

Welcome to Milwaukee!

I think the two greatest problems facing Milwaukee are education and jobs. These two problems are inter-related, and the statistics for both are not pretty.

But I also think that we as Milwaukeeans need to put these numbers in a national context. The abyssmal state of urban schools is a national crisis that has national reprucussions. In 2002, the national graduation rate was 71%, but for African American students it was 56%, and for Hispanics it was 52%. Imagine half the kids in your community not graduating high school. That's what the Black and Hispanic communities in Milwaukee, and nationally, face.

Schools serving low income, minority students perform miserably in almost every city, including those cities that are the most successful otherwise:

Atlanta is by most measurements a very succesful city, but the percentage of people in ATL without HS diplomas is slightly lower than Milwaukee's -- 23% to Milwaukee's 25%.

Minneapolis is routinely cited as one of the great Midwestern success stories, but the Minneapolis Public School District has a four year graduation rate of 42%, with African American students graduating at 30%. link (http://www.mplsfoundation.org/2010/demographics.htm)

Here some other stats:

New York City:

"Only 70 percent of students complete high school, either by obtaining a diploma (60%) or a GED (10%) within seven years of initial enrollment. Only 50 percent complete high school, either with a diploma (46%) or GED (4%) within four years of initial enrollment. These figures are unchanged from the beginning of the 1990s.
Only 44 percent of black students, and only 39 percent of Hispanic students, complete high school within four years."

San Francisco Unified School District:

In 2003, the percentage of students graduating in four years:

White: 82%
Latino: 62%
African American: 57%
All Students: 77%

milwaukeeunseen, I agree with your point here that Milwaukee isn't the only major city with a public school education problem. In fact, if you look at the rankings of the developed industrial nations, the U.S. always seem to rank near the bottom as far as educational results. But since we are Wisconsin/Milwaukee citizens, the graduation rates in our state's largest city should concern all of us. I believe it has a long term negative effect, both economically and socially. And I believe Milwaukee will have a difficult time reaching its full potential with a school system in dire straits. But unfortunately, Milwaukee has a severe "family structure" problem in a large percentage of its households. Which exacterbates the vicious cycle when it comes to education, economics, and crime. I wish like hell that I had a comprehensive solution to our inner cities problems. How do you keep the kids interested enough to complete high school and want to better themselves without resorting to the quick buck criminal alternative? I'm afraid that male role models in the inner city are too few to turn the tide. I'm a part-time school bus driver in the school district of Oshkosh, and I do whatever little bit I can to offer discipline and guidance to all the kids that ride my bus. But especially those that come from "broken homes". And believe it or not, they eventually grow to appreciate the fact that I give a damn enough to care. I drive the elementary school age kids, so I'm hoping that my "teachings" has an lasting effect. I know this doesn't have much to do with the next Milwaukee high-rise condo, but then again maybe it does when you stand back and look at the big picture.

But since we are Wisconsin/Milwaukee citizens, the graduation rates in our state's largest city should concern all of us.

Yes, we should be very concerned about the state of Milwaukee's schools. But we should also be concerned about urban (and low income rural) schools nationally, and how so far public school districts have completely failed to break the cycle of poverty. If you're born poor in the United States the overwhelming odds are that you will die poor. And alot of that has to do with the pitiful educational systems that "serve" low income kids. We should all be very concerned about this problem as Americans. We can and should do better.

But since we are Wisconsin/Milwaukee citizens

We should all be very concerned about this problem as Americans. We can and should do better.

Let me one up you both, as humans we should and can do better.

milwaukeeunseen, I agree with your point here that Milwaukee isn't the only major city with a public school education problem. In fact, if you look at the rankings of the developed industrial nations, the U.S. always seem to rank near the bottom as far as educational results. But since we are Wisconsin/Milwaukee citizens, the graduation rates in our state's largest city should concern all of us. ... I know this doesn't have much to do with the next Milwaukee high-rise condo, but then again maybe it does when you stand back and look at the big picture.

I agree entirely with you, Oshkosh49. The skyline that we spend so much time admiring and talking about in this space is, among other things, a visible barometer of investors' confidence in the long-term viability and prosperity of the community. High-rise condos are great for Milwaukee. But whether we ever see Lake Pointe Tower or Ovation Place or other high-rise structures break ground will be directly linked to business decisions made by developers and prospective tenants about the economic health of Milwaukee. Those decisions are ultimately dependent on perceptions of the stability of the local labor market, the quality of public education and other public services (e.g., parks), and the safety and overall appeal of the community for business.

The news about RedPrairie considering relocation options because of taxation and recruitment difficulties here should serve as a screaming wake-up call for us. Unless we can demonstrate repeatedly to local, national, and international business interests, in many ways, on many levels, that the fabric of our civic and economic life is sturdy and appealing enough to make them consider growing or relocating here, we are headed for trouble.

I agree entirely with you, Oshkosh49. The skyline that we spend so much time admiring and talking about in this space is, among other things, a visible barometer of investors' confidence in the long-term viability and prosperity of the community. High-rise condos are great for Milwaukee. But whether we ever see Lake Pointe Tower or Ovation Place or other high-rise structures break ground will be directly linked to business decisions made by developers and prospective tenants about the economic health of Milwaukee. Those decisions are ultimately dependent on perceptions of the stability of the local labor market, the quality of public education and other public services (e.g., parks), and the safety and overall appeal of the community for business.

The news about RedPrairie considering relocation options because of taxation and recruitment difficulties here should serve as a screaming wake-up call for us. Unless we can demonstrate repeatedly to local, national, and international business interests, in many ways, on many levels, that the fabric of our civic and economic life is sturdy and appealing enough to make them consider growing or relocating here, we are headed for trouble.


You bring up quality public education and public services.. and then bring up taxation as being an issue. How do you propose we lower taxes and have quality education / public services?

I think that we (as Americans in general) think too much in terms of taxes. It doesn't matter what the tax rate is if we don't have good parks, police, public transit, schools, etc. We can have high taxes and still be attractive to buisness if we have these things and, to get them, we need to have a decent amount of taxation.

Hello I have been following the Milwaukee redvelopment for awhile and decide to join. I lived here in Milwaukee and graduated form high school two weeks ago.

My question is with the condition of MPS should it keep using 220?

Eastsider> What's wrong with upgrading the current system and/or finishing the commuter rail line? (this is the metra I assume). This metra line would connect milwaukee all the way to chicago,but more importantly to Kenosha/Racine.

I guess with the current situation in Milwaukee, the City has other things it could tackle. But it would be nice to have a Mayor with some stones.

The education issue is one that may take Milwaukee awhile to recover from. A big chunk of it seems to stem from the fear many of the white middle/upper class families have developed of cities in this country. Milwaukee happens to be a city that due to loss of jobs in the past, and currently something of a reputation for crime--quite unfair imo-- has made itself unattractrive to this segment. Thus people have moved away to the 'burbs, along with that development will follow the group with disposable income, which gives the area a nice area rep. bringing better teachers and education with it. While unfortunately something of the opposite happens in the left behind city.
Now certainly downtown and the inner burbs are not that bad off and things are happening there. But it's hard to tell where to start to improve the schools. To me just general development is what's needed most. Bring some life and jobs to an area and the ball will roll-but somebody has to commit to do that. Or a substantial amount of funding for the schools is needed, which is unrealistic.
Milw. is starting to get there but more needs to be done and it benefits all in the big picture--and yes someday it might even give us more pretty buildings to stare at.

You bring up quality public education and public services.. and then bring up taxation as being an issue. How do you propose we lower taxes and have quality education / public services?
That's a real legitimate issue to raise. I've always heard that Wisconsin was one of the highest taxed states in the nation. Especially, property taxes. Consequently, it was difficult for our corporations to hire top-flight managers and so-on because of our high taxes. And doesn't property taxes help fund the local public schools. I honestly don't think we have a revenue problem. I think we have a socio-economiic problem. If Wisconsin's "lack of tax revenue" was a problem for its public schools, then why aren't all of Wisconsin schools failing at the same rate as Milwaukee's? Which they aren't, by the way. Wisconsin public schools seem to always graduate high school kids that do well on the SATs. The major problem is KEEPING kids in schools. According to the Census Bureau, less than one/third of Milwaukee adults have a high school diploma. YIKES!!! It is definately a difficult issue to get a handle on, however.

You bring up quality public education and public services.. and then bring up taxation as being an issue. How do you propose we lower taxes and have quality education / public services?

Balancing efficient delivery of public services with proper funding methods (taxes) is always a tricky issue, but these problems in my mind go beyond a discussion of taxes. I don't believe that throwing tax money at a problem is any guarantee of a solution or improvement. Too often, it seems, the public sector lacks the imagination or initiative to sort through these problems, and it's a huge demand to make, even of government.

My thoughts were going along other lines, although I didn't articulate them. Oshkosh49 talked about the little steps he was taking in his life to influence the kids he drives to school with good personal/societal role-modeling. I am probably quite a bit older than most of you -- a Baby Boomer, who like others my age (see today's Journal/Sentinel Op-Ed page) are considering what useful things they might do after they are able to exit the work force. One personal dream would be to see a resurgence of interest in VISTA (Volunteers In Service To America). Would be wonderful to see large numbers of Boomers with a little spare time try to help fix their own communities -- help mentor kids at MPS, for example. This may sound like pie-in-the-sky stuff, but some of these problems will take years, maybe decades, to turn around, and I'm not sure that government is, or should be expected to be, up to the task.

Milwaukee's problems extend from the racial segregation. The sad state of our schools isnt enitrely MPS' fault. Public schools are the only option in the worst areas, where accountability is minimal. People living in these shitty areas arnt going to be packing up and leaving, forcing aldermen to improve the situation, as they have in other areas of Milwaukee like the East Side.

Busing was a terrible idea, with both blacks and whites hating it. What else can be done? It seems like Milwaukee is just going to be burdened by this problem forever because of conditions beyond its control..
Milwaukee's geography leads to its racial segregation.. its typical of all cities on large bodies of water as opposed to cities on rivers. Cities on large bodies of water always have a pretty shoreline, nice and clean and perfect for tourists, but if you go further away from the water you see its just a fascade. Milwaukee's situation is better than such cities in tropical areas, but still faces this problem. If the segregation issue isnt solved, MPS will never improve. It seems to me that the segregation will only get worse with development around the rivers and the lake.. but hardly anything in the northwest or southside.

That's a real legitimate issue to raise. I've always heard that Wisconsin was one of the highest taxed states in the nation. Especially, property taxes. Consequently, it was difficult for our corporations to hire top-flight managers and so-on because of our high taxes. And doesn't property taxes help fund the local public schools. I honestly don't think we have a revenue problem. I think we have a socio-economiic problem. If Wisconsin's "lack of tax revenue" was a problem for its public schools, then why aren't all of Wisconsin schools failing at the same rate as Milwaukee's? Which they aren't, by the way. Wisconsin public schools seem to always graduate high school kids that do well on the SATs. The major problem is KEEPING kids in schools. According to the Census Bureau, less than one/third of Milwaukee adults have a high school diploma. YIKES!!! It is definately a difficult issue to get a handle on, however.

The lack of revenue affects all schools. I think that you underestimate how demeaning it is for kids when their art class and music, etc. get cut. And I'm talking about my experience from Shorewood, a rich district. Imagine going to MPS, where whole schools are getting closed, there are almost no school nurses left, and there are almost none of the classes that aren't state required. Add to that, that many of the kids come from areas/families, where school is a type of refuge and it's easy to understand why kids give up.

We should make all of Milwaukee County one school district like proposed in the '70's.

At the root of the education problem is poverty. Milwaukee's often-cited racial segregation is really a segregation of incomes and socioeconomic classes. We have one the highest concentrations of poverty in the United States in our central city. Schools in which 90% of the students are low income or in poverty continually underperform.

But what happens in schools that are not completely segregated by income? Madison offers a good example of this. Madison has only one pocket of poverty that can even come close to what we see in Milwaukee -- Allied Drive. The students in Allied Drive are dispersed among schools throughout Madison. Since the vast majority of Madison students are middle income or higher, these kids from Allied Drive go to largely middle class schools. How do they do?

They do better than impoverished kids in Milwaukee, but not nearly as well as their middle income peers. The Allied Drive kids score far below kids from the rest of Madison on test scores, they are truant at a far higher rate, and they graduate at a much lower rate. So, poor students as a whole do worse in school than middle class kids do, even when they attend schools that are majority middle class.

The lesson here is that poverty creates problems that prevent kids from doing well in school. Which means that in order to effectively educate kids from poor families, the school needs to do more to address the problems that stem from poverty: bad family situations, health problems, etc.

Here in Milwaukee and in other cities there are individual schools that do a great job educating poor kids. These schools essentially educate the family AND the child. They involve the parents and offer a clear alternative future for kids that contradicts the future that they might normally see for themselves. They place high excpecatations on the kids AND the parents and get involved with the life of the whole family.

It can be done, but making every school like this in a huge district like Milwaukee is a huge, huge task.

They do better than impoverished kids in Milwaukee, but not nearly as well as their middle income peers. The Allied Drive kids score far below kids from the rest of Madison on test scores, they are truant at a far higher rate, and they graduate at a much lower rate. So, poor students as a whole do worse in school than middle class kids do, even when they attend schools that are majority middle class. .

I saw the same thing happen in my high school growing up. I went to one of the suburban high schools and the kids bussed in for the most part had issues. The ones that didn't have issues were the ones that came from middle class families living in Milwaukee.

I went to MPS schools all through high school and its amazing how many kids either dropped out of school, stayed in school but rarely showed up, or just committed crimes and wound up at Wales or elsewhere. The only way this is going to change is if parents take responsibility for their kids. But half the time the parents haven't grown up yet either. I don't know what if anything we can do to eliminate this problem.

Google Maps finally has the downtown Milwaukee satellite image.. Looks like it is within the past year.. Kilbourn and Pier Wisconsin are there, but the Pier Wisconsin cruise ship dock isn't started and UCT is just getting started.

My question is with the condition of MPS should it keep using 220?

I posted this article in another section yesterday. I'll post it here, too.


Big-city schools struggle with graduation rates

By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Students in a handful of big-city school districts have a less than 50-50 chance of graduating from high school with their peers, and a few cities graduate far fewer than half each spring, according to research released on Tuesday.

Fourteen urban school districts have on-time graduation rates lower than 50%; they include Detroit, Baltimore, New York, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, Denver and Houston.

TABLE:Graduation rates for 50 largest districts in U.S. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-06-20-dropout-rates_x.htm#grad) <-- A MUST see!!

The findings present a bleak picture and are sure to generate controversy as lawmakers and others push to keep U.S. students competitive globally.

While the basic finding that the nation's overall graduation rate is about 70% is not new, the study suggests that graduation rates are much lower than previously reported in many states. It also could bring the dropout debate to the local level, because it allows anyone with Internet access to view with unprecedented detail data on the nation's 12,000 school districts.

Among the nation's 50 largest districts, the study finds, three graduate fewer than 40%: Detroit (21.7%), Baltimore (38.5%) and New York City (38.9%).

The advantage of the new study is that "you could apply it to any and all school districts in the country with the same validity — and the same problems," says Michael Casserly of The Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for large urban districts.

He says it's still unclear whether researcher Christopher Swanson overstates the problem. Swanson's analysis, strictly speaking, is not a calculation of dropout rates but of graduation rates; it estimates the probability that a student in ninth grade will complete high school on time and with a regular diploma.

Adding to the debate: The study is sponsored by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which promotes its own brand of high school reform. Last year, Bill Gates called U.S. high schools "obsolete."

The study, which uses 2002 and 2003 data, the most current available, finds that public schools graduate 69.6% of an estimated 4 million eligible students each spring, meaning about 1.2 million students likely won't graduate this year. That means about 7,000 students drop out per school day, Swanson says.

Researcher Lawrence Mishel of the Economic Policy Institute says Swanson's figures "seriously understate graduation rates, especially for minorities." They say that just 52% of blacks graduate, and 57% of Hispanics.

Mishel says by comparing the number of graduates with the number of ninth-graders, Swanson exaggerates the effects of the "ninth-grade bulge," in which many ninth-graders are held back a year before tackling more advanced work and, often, state-mandated exit exams. Mishel's most recent research puts the overall U.S. graduation rate at 82%.

Copyright 2006 USA TODAY

Im surprised to Fulton County and Baltimore with such high rates.. they must be doing something right. Anyone know what their game plan has been over the last twenty years?

Im surprised to Fulton County and Baltimore with such high rates.. they must be doing something right. Anyone know what their game plan has been over the last twenty years?


Baltimore County does not include the city of Baltimore. It comprises the suburban area immediately west north and east of the city of Baltimore.

Im surprised to Fulton County and Baltimore with such high rates.. they must be doing something right. Anyone know what their game plan has been over the last twenty years?

Baltimore and Atlanta have separate school districts for their respective cities and counties.

So the Baltimore County district covers susburban schools and excludes city schools. That's why Baltimore County has a grad rate of 81.9% and Baltimore City has a grad rate of only 38.5%.

The same is true for the Atlanta area. The Fulton County district covers suburban schools and excludes the city schools. That's why Fulton County has a grad rate of 68.4%. Since Atlanta's city district doesn't show up on the list, it must not have made the cut of the country's 50 largest school districts.


In fact, all of the school districts with the highest grad rates on that chart are located either in subruban areas right outside a large city, or have combined city-suburb districts.

Article about taxes in Milwaukee.

By LARRY SANDLER
lsandler@journalsentinel.com
Posted: June 22, 2006

As city officials ponder whether to trim library hours or cut back on boulevard plantings, Milwaukeeans can take comfort in knowing their city is taxing less, spending less and maintaining a stronger municipal pension fund than comparable cities, City Comptroller W. Martin "Wally" Morics says.

After compiling his third annual comparison of revenue and spending in 10 U.S. cities, Morics says Wisconsin municipalities' heavy reliance on property taxes has clouded discussions of local government finance.

"People refer to Milwaukee as a tax hell," Morics said. "What they don't realize is that they would go down to Chicago and pay an 8.5% sales tax."

Milwaukee collects more property taxes per capita than nine similar cities, $365 vs. $267, Morics found. But the other cities collect an average of $472 per capita in municipal sales and income taxes to Milwaukee's zero, and that puts Milwaukee at the bottom of the pack in total local taxes, his report says.

In Wisconsin, the state collects income and sales taxes and sends some of the money back to local governments.

And Milwaukee receives more state aid than most of its counterparts, Morics said. But with the decline of state shared revenue, Milwaukee still takes in less than other cities in total taxes, fees and state and federal aid: $1,424 per capita here to an average of $1,836 in similar cities, the report says.

That picture may not change soon. Mayor Tom Barrett says he's not planning to propose any new fees or taxes - such as a local vehicle registration fee, or wheel tax - in his 2007 budget. Overall, Barrett will seek to hold increases in property taxes and fees to about 3%, budget chief Mark Nicolini says.

City agencies' budget requests have raised the prospect of reducing some neighborhood libraries to three-day-a-week operations, along with cutbacks in boulevard planting, garbage collection, street maintenance and snow removal.

After meeting Thursday with retiring City Librarian Kate Huston, Barrett still won't predict what will happen to library hours, mayoral spokeswoman Eileen Force said.

Morics said services have been overshadowed by taxes in government finance debates. As the city's chief fiscal watchdog, he says he finds relatively little waste and fraud, and therefore cutting spending means eliminating services.

Separately, an actuarial report shows the city's pension fund has more than enough money to handle its obligations, and for the 11th year in a row, the city won't have to contribute anything to the fund beyond its regular 5% match, said Morics, who is president of the city Pension Board.

A consulting firm recently ranked Milwaukee's pension fund as second best-funded of 94 such funds, Morics said.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439888

Article about taxes in Milwaukee.

By LARRY SANDLER
lsandler@journalsentinel.com
Posted: June 22, 2006

As city officials ponder whether to trim library hours or cut back on boulevard plantings, Milwaukeeans can take comfort in knowing their city is taxing less, spending less and maintaining a stronger municipal pension fund than comparable cities, City Comptroller W. Martin "Wally" Morics says.

After compiling his third annual comparison of revenue and spending in 10 U.S. cities, Morics says Wisconsin municipalities' heavy reliance on property taxes has clouded discussions of local government finance.

"People refer to Milwaukee as a tax hell," Morics said. "What they don't realize is that they would go down to Chicago and pay an 8.5% sales tax."

Milwaukee collects more property taxes per capita than nine similar cities, $365 vs. $267, Morics found. But the other cities collect an average of $472 per capita in municipal sales and income taxes to Milwaukee's zero, and that puts Milwaukee at the bottom of the pack in total local taxes, his report says.

In Wisconsin, the state collects income and sales taxes and sends some of the money back to local governments.

And Milwaukee receives more state aid than most of its counterparts, Morics said. But with the decline of state shared revenue, Milwaukee still takes in less than other cities in total taxes, fees and state and federal aid: $1,424 per capita here to an average of $1,836 in similar cities, the report says.

That picture may not change soon. Mayor Tom Barrett says he's not planning to propose any new fees or taxes - such as a local vehicle registration fee, or wheel tax - in his 2007 budget. Overall, Barrett will seek to hold increases in property taxes and fees to about 3%, budget chief Mark Nicolini says.

City agencies' budget requests have raised the prospect of reducing some neighborhood libraries to three-day-a-week operations, along with cutbacks in boulevard planting, garbage collection, street maintenance and snow removal.

After meeting Thursday with retiring City Librarian Kate Huston, Barrett still won't predict what will happen to library hours, mayoral spokeswoman Eileen Force said.

Morics said services have been overshadowed by taxes in government finance debates. As the city's chief fiscal watchdog, he says he finds relatively little waste and fraud, and therefore cutting spending means eliminating services.

Separately, an actuarial report shows the city's pension fund has more than enough money to handle its obligations, and for the 11th year in a row, the city won't have to contribute anything to the fund beyond its regular 5% match, said Morics, who is president of the city Pension Board.

A consulting firm recently ranked Milwaukee's pension fund as second best-funded of 94 such funds, Morics said.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439888

Exactly. We always talk about taxes in terms of numbers and procent and never about the effect they have. We should be looking more at what kind of city we want and then pay to fund it afterwards. Do we want transit, parks, schools, police, libraries, etc? Then we need to fund them properly. Politicians need to start saying this instead of being against taxes in general.

We could have all these things if Tom Ament didnt fuck us all with his pention program. Now we are paying more on his and his lachey's retirements than our entire park system. Anyone associated with Ament should be this forum's permanent shit list.

We could have all these things if Tom Ament didnt fuck us all with his pention program. Now we are paying more on his and his lachey's retirements than our entire park system. Anyone associated with Ament should be this forum's permanent shit list.

yeah and not. the county does pay an absurd amount of money to pension benefits (to all former county employees), about $20 mil. total. But, for example, the 1% sales tax that (sadly) seems like it won't ever get to a referendum, would raise $126 mil. just to restore service in county parks, cultural institutions, transit to former levels- not improve them over the state they were in before Walker. It would help but you have to be pretty naïve to think that it would magically solve all of the county's problems.

^^^ amen

**OFF TOPIC RANT**

I heard something on the radio about 10 minutes ago that really pissed me off! I was listening to Sports Radio 1250AM, and some of the programs on that station come from other cities (like Jim Rome, for example). Anyway, some guy was talking about the Bob Uecker stalking case. While he was talking about, this pussyhole said "The stalker faces up to 3 years in Milwauk-, I mean prison". That was NOT necessary! I'd bet some serious money that this asshole is from one of the coasts!

My point is, no matter how much progress this city makes, you still have some elitist dickheads who feel the need to make fun of us! This shit really annoys me!

**RANT OVER**

The radio caller was obviously an ignorant elitist dickhead, who's never step foot east of the Rocky Mountains, or west of the Appalachians. It's the same stupid crap ignorant elitist newspaper columnists do when they reference LaVerne & Shirley in their articles in which they enlighten themselves with a half day visit to Milwaukee. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Garry Marshall should get splattered by an Oshkosh Truck. (Read that as DIE a horrible death for creating and producing LaVerne & Shirley in the first place!) If you don't know, an Oshkosh Truck makes a Mack Truck look like a Tonka toy truck.

The radio caller was obviously an ignorant elitist dickhead, who's never step foot east of the Rocky Mountains, or west of the Appalachians. It's the same stupid crap ignorant elitist newspaper columnists do when they reference LaVerne & Shirley in their articles in which they enlighten themselves with a half day visit to Milwaukee. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Garry Marshall should get splattered by an Oshkosh Truck. (Read that as DIE a horrible death for creating and producing LaVerne & Shirley in the first place!) If you don't know, an Oshkosh Truck makes a Mack Truck look like a Tonka toy truck.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: yeah, the sterotypes that that show gave Milwaukee really makes me hate that show. "Happy Days" wasn't quite as bad as L&S, but that sterotype is pretty annoying too.

anyway, I should made more clear that the guy who said that is the host, not a caller. If it were a caller, it wouldn't have gotten me as heated. A radio host shouldn't be allowed to spew such ignorance

yeah, the sterotypes that that show gave Milwaukee really makes me hate that show.

What stereotypes did L&S give Milwaukee?? That it was a blue-collar city with some breweries?

That's not so much a sterotype as it it is...well...the truth, especially as it was supposed to portray the city during the 1950s and 60s.

This thread has gotten a little depressing of late. To tell the truth even with all that is wrong with the metro area of Milwaukee what the Milwaukee area really needs is... (Don't get upset with me just let me explain) a guy like Tommy Thompson. Despite some of the baggage Tommy represents Tommy Thompson was out for all the world to hear on how great Wisconsin is. What I dont see with Tom Barrett is him telling everyone who would care to hear is how great a place Milwaukee is. I think some of the bad stuff that is currently in the air around the Milwaukee area could be put into better light if the so called leader of the area would lead by saying how much he loves this area despite some of the ills that go along with living in this area.

I don't think we need look further than Shitcago oh er... Chicago than to see what it would take for Milwaukee to get back on the proper footing. All I ever hear from mayor Richard M. Daley is what great city Chicago is. Nobody pumps for that area more than the mayor of Chicago does. The same can be said for the twin cities ( Minneapolis - Sant Paul) as well. And guess what! All three of those cities have Domocrats as mayor.

To me it seems that Tom Barrett is an apologist and anti business mayor. Is that really something that the Milwaukee area needs is an apologistic mayor? It is the job of the mayor to the main cheerleader for the area he represents isn't it? I think people can stand to be taxed half to death if the leader actually believes that the area he represents is the best place in the world.

After seeing all the posts on this forum in one form or another over the last 2 plus years it is evident to me how much everyone here really wants to see the very best for the Milwaukee area. Now if some of that enthusiasium would show up in your local elected politicians maybe Milwaukee can be the next big turn around story.

I have come up with what I think is a good name for the Milwaukee - Chicago area. How about Wis ill ana spelled Wisillana for the tri state area of SE Wisconsin, NE Illinois, NW Indiana?

What stereotypes did L&S give Milwaukee?? That it was a blue-collar city with some breweries?

That's not so much a sterotype as it it is...well...the truth, especially as it was supposed to portray the city during the 1950s and 60s.

But Markitect, that portrayal was accurate 40 to 50 years ago, for goodness sakes. Pittsburgh isn't the steel city like it was 40 years ago, is it. And yet, ignorant people still have this completely outdated perception of Milwaukee. Milwaukee's outdated perception doesn't indicate that Milwaukee has a world famous symphony, a ballet company, theater companies, a wonderful music scene, a few great art museums, a marine museum, a history museum, and an art and design school, etc.

But you know all this don't you. Doesn't it irritate you in the least that people who seem to not care enough to do any current research about Milwaukee seem to have the negative persuasive influence on every other media hick?

But then again, why fret about people who rather not enhance their knowlege, and continue to choose to be completely ignorant. I'm ranting too. Sorry!

What stereotypes did L&S give Milwaukee??
Here it is 2006. And because of LaVerne & Shirley, a radio talk show host or any media buffoon still thinks Milwaukee is populated with a bunch of Lenny and Quigleys, and LaVerne and Shirleys. And the only way to make a living in Milwaukee is to work in a brewery? Give me a break. Jeepers!

The TV show didn't actually label Milwaukee with a stereotype because when LaVerne and Shirley was a current ABC network favorite in the 1970s, Milwaukee still had Miller, Schlitz, Blatz, and Pabst breweries still going fairly strong. Therefore, the brewing industry aspect of the show was still accurate. However, to have current media still spew out outdated, inaccurate, perceptions regarding Milwaukee is totally narrow-minded.

A stereotype is an outdated, sometimes hurtfull perception. Like for example, all African Americans aren't as intelligent as whites, all native Americans are drunks, all handicap people are a useless burden, all American cars are lemons, all Catholic parents want to have 10 kids, whatever. The point is, the stereotypes are discriminatory and detrimental.

The ghost of Laverne and Shirley will haunt us only as long as we allow it to. It just doesn't matter what some twit on the radio thinks about Milwaukee. The sad fact is that many people on both coasts don't know much about this country at all. I lived in Boston for years, and many people there had no clue about the U.S. west of Pennsylvania. There are a lot of parochial attitudes out there that, because of the place of origin, come across as refined, cosmopolitan, even intimidating views. A radio talk host needs to project an edgy attitude just to keep listeners tuned in. That's what that guy was doing. Who knows, maybe lot of his listeners thought he was full of crap anyway.

I used to let people like the radio guy get to me, but not anymore. He's just an ignorant person with the resources at hand to propagate his ignorance easily. We know what Milwaukee is, right? If Mr. Radio chooses to remain stuck in the past, that's his problem.

The ghost of Laverne and Shirley will haunt us only as long as we allow it to. It just doesn't matter what some twit on the radio thinks about Milwaukee. The sad fact is that many people on both coasts don't know much about this country at all. I lived in Boston for years, and many people there had no clue about the U.S. west of Pennsylvania. There are a lot of parochial attitudes out there that, because of the place of origin, come across as refined, cosmopolitan, even intimidating views. A radio talk host needs to project an edgy attitude just to keep listeners tuned in. That's what that guy was doing. Who knows, maybe lot of his listeners thought he was full of crap anyway.

I used to let people like the radio guy get to me, but not anymore. He's just an ignorant person with the resources at hand to propagate his ignorance easily. We know what Milwaukee is, right? If Mr. Radio chooses to remain stuck in the past, that's his problem.
I know you're correct sideliner. But it really irks me when some ignoramous barfs out totally uninformed and irresponsible garbage about a person or a place. Especially from the platform of a mass media outlet.

But I will say that with the numerous positive articles being written about Milwaukee in other major magazines and newspapers, that the positive word is getting out there. I just wish the reference to LaVerne & Shirley within a large percentage of these articles would never be used. It's a stereotype that is totally useless and wrong.

Maybe the Wisconsin Department of Tourism, the Milwaukee Convention & Visitors Bureau, and other like agencies should pool their resources to heavily promote the Milwaukee area to coastal media outlets. Maybe even send them a round-trip ticket on Midwest Airlines along with a couple nights at the Pfister Hotel. That way when they go back to their cubicle the next week, they will write about anything but the old stereotypical baloney. Do this from May through September of course. Use the coastal media to spread the good word, so to speak. Just a crazy, whacky, thought, I know.

The biggest issue is that people from the city and visit milwaukee / spirit of milwaukee bring up L&S all the time when they speak.

Here it is 2006. And because of LaVerne & Shirley, a radio talk show host or any media buffoon still thinks Milwaukee is populated with a bunch of Lenny and Quigleys, and LaVerne and Shirleys. And the only way to make a living in Milwaukee is to work in a brewery? Give me a break. Jeepers!



Saying things like "jeepers" doesn't help a whole lot, either.

I'm just not that worried about what some guy on ESPN radio said ... I mean, how many people nationally actually heard the remark, and how many even chuckled at it? My guess would be relatively few.

Now, if Letterman and Leno were to include anti-Milwaukee material in their monologues each night then there might be a legitimate problem. But obviously they're not.

I think when people hear their own city get ripped on they take it to heart and think there city is unfarily portrayed simply because they single out the city they live in and therefore they remember it.



Think of other perfectly respectable places that get ripped on constantly in the media: New Jersey, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, the South as a whole, etc. In other words, the perception of the rest of the nation toward Milwaukee is not as bad as you think. And if it is, fuck them anyway. I don't want too many people discovering the awesomeness that is Milwaukee and turn it into another overpriced, overcrowded shit-hole.

Who cares what those arrogant coasties think? Those clowns will be crawling back to the Packerland sooner or later when their city turns into a big pool, resembles those remote areas of Pakistan, or are too expensive to live in. Just wait until gas prices go off the charts and see how cool Southern California will become. Maybe they can like, totally surf to work or dude, even skateboard there!

And I find it amusing how some of these New Yorkers think that city is so perfect. Sure, crime may be down and the way crimes are defined in NYC changed...but their school system aint all that great. Arent they lower than Milwaukee when it comes to graduation rates...amongt the unholy trinity of the Midwest--Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee?

The people that think Milwaukee is the same as it was in the days of LaVerne and Shirley are going to have that until Milwaukee starts to advertise itself. I was born after the days of Laverne and Shirley and never saw the show. I don't know the way the show advertised Milwaukee. I don't know if the people of Milwaukee liked having a show filmed here. But it is clear that this is the way people that don't know Milwaukee view the city. Like a out dated map or a ten year old newspaper. People that watch the show now think Milwaukee is still there. We need a new show or movie filmed here.

When is University Club Tower going to be finish? I thought it was going be done in june of 06 and june is almost over.

But Markitect, that portrayal was accurate 40 to 50 years ago, for goodness sakes. Pittsburgh isn't the steel city like it was 40 years ago, is it. And yet, ignorant people still have this completely outdated perception of Milwaukee. Milwaukee's outdated perception doesn't indicate that Milwaukee has a world famous symphony, a ballet company, theater companies, a wonderful music scene, a few great art museums, a marine museum, a history museum, and an art and design school, etc.

So the problem isn't really with the show so much as it it is with moronic people who watch it and associate those things with present-day Milwaukee. A problem with people who do not know the diffierence between past and present, fact and fiction, reality versus TV.

I was born after the days of Laverne and Shirley and never saw the show. I don't know the way the show advertised Milwaukee.

Quite honestly, neither Happy Days nor Laverne & Shirley really focused or advertized Milwaukee all that much, other than an occassional reference here and there. The shows did not revolve around the city (nor were they filmed here), and the plots were generic enough that they could have easily been portayed as taking place in any other city, real or imaginary.

If any sterotypes were being thrown around, they were more of the generic kind, and not Milwaukee-centric...such as the family father figure coming home from work dressed in a suit while the stay-at-home wife and mother, always in a dress and wearing jewlery, was to have the dinner meal prepared for the breadwinner's arrival...or the two single young women struggling to make by in the world of dating as they're out on their own for the first time...or the ubiquitous special episodes that deal with some important personal/social/moral issue, and so on...the same kind of things that have been rehashed in TV shows for decades, and continue to this day.

The reason Milwaukee was used in HD and L&S was because one of the producers grew up here and he and the others in charge felt Milwaukee was a good representation of middle-class/blue-collar, wholesome, friendly, everyday America.

On a side note, I can gaurantee you that if Milwaukee was never the setting for a TV show, we'd have all kinds of Milwaukeeans whining about how all these other cities are used as settings for TV shows and Milwaukee wasn't.

But I will say that with the numerous positive articles being written about Milwaukee in other major magazines and newspapers, that the positive word is getting out there. I just wish the reference to LaVerne & Shirley within a large percentage of these articles would never be used. It's a stereotype that is totally useless and wrong.

Are you misintepreting the references? Yes, there are articles about Milwaukee that mention things like L&S, but are they really used in a negative light? Those references are usually used in a message that says Milwaukee has shed, or is shedding, it's beer and brats, blue-collar image...that there is indeed more to the city than those things...that we do have arts and culture and museums and revitalization, that there's more to Milwaukee than what you saw on some 30-year-old sitcom, and so forth. That precisely the opposite of being hurtful, discriminatory, and detrimental.

http://www.pencildrop.com/img/LaverneAndShirley.jpg

Me and my friend here are planning on moving to M'waukeeSconsin. Do you know if any of de breweries are hiring?

When is University Club Tower going to be finish? I thought it was going be done in june of 06 and june is almost over.

Occupancy Fall 2006

Occupancy Fall 2006

yeah, it was just suppossed to be topped-off in June, which it was.

Milwaukee isn't the only place to get ripped on like someone said, so it should be taken in stride. If cities like ours continue to improve, so will the image...hopefully.
But in a kinda of random thought, does anyone know if there are any plans in place for the area directly to the east of the big parking lot at Miller Park? It's such an eyesore coming into the city from the west to have large areas of dirt and abandon stretching for aways just to the south of 94. Seems like something should be done there.

Milwaukee isn't the only place to get ripped on like someone said, so it should be taken in stride. If cities like ours continue to improve, so will the image...hopefully.
But in a kinda of random thought, does anyone know if there are any plans in place for the area directly to the east of the big parking lot at Miller Park? It's such an eyesore coming into the city from the west to have large areas of dirt and abandon stretching for aways just to the south of 94. Seems like something should be done there.

http://www.renewthevalley.org

It will be transformed into an urban industrial park with nature trails and parks..

i wonder what milwaukee county should do to get out of debt

So, does any have any new pics of the topped-off UCT? I havent been downtown in a while to see how it looks.

So, does any have any new pics of the topped-off UCT? I havent been downtown in a while to see how it looks.

I'll post new pictures here and on Emporis later this afternoon.

Interesting article in the Business Journal of Milwaukee:
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/26/story1.html?i=48356
In this article it states the Ghazi mixed use proposal is planned for 200 hotel rooms instead of what I believe was originally only 150 rooms.

Interesting article in the Business Journal of Milwaukee:
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/26/story1.html?i=48356
In this article it states the Ghazi mixed use proposal is planned for 200 hotel rooms instead of what I believe was originally only 150 rooms.

Hopefully that number will continue to increase. I would rather have more rooms in the Ghazi project and only 9 planned hotels downtown.

i wonder what milwaukee county should do to get out of debt


Well, we should figure out which services we need and want, and then do some soul searching. The unpopular, nontheless necessary solution is to raise taxes. Of course Waukesha Walker is never going to let that happen, so a more immediate fix could be to find a way to remove him from office. The way he has been running the county government is a travesty and just shows an extreme level of incompetence. I mean, if you're going to re-organize two county departments in to one bureaucratic mess like when he tried to merge Parks and DPW, you have to at least fund the transition, or the charade won't work. So my vote goes to ditching Scott Walker, and fixing the funding.

One more thing: The taxes in Milwaukee, or Wisconsin for that matter are never quite the "Tax Hell" that Mark Belling, Charlie Sykes, or any other Right Wing mouthpieces make them out to be.

In Wyoming, for example with much lower property taxes, you have to pay a 5% (of the value of the vehicle) annual use tax on your car along with registration fees, just to keep your tags current. And the sales tax is 6%. No matter what you do to the property taxes, you need a certain amount of money. It will have to come from somewhere. As pointed out earlier, Milw has lower sales tax than many other metros that happen to have lower property taxes.

i wonder what milwaukee county should do to get out of debt

What's really killing the County right now are health care costs and huge pensions for retired workers. Milwaukee County pays $.75 in fringe benefits for every dollar spent on salaries. That is outrageous, and is far above the average $.25 to every dollar seen in the private sector.

We need to put pressure on AFSCME to allow some kind of meaningful negotiaion on benefits. We need to think of creative ways to reduce the county's health care burden. Perhaps the County could pool with other counties around the state to share health insurance costs?

The parks department should be made into an indpendent entity apart from the County, much like MMSD or MATC. That would free the County from the benefits burden and allow more money to go into maintaining the parks.

I think Walker was on to something when he tried merging the County DPW with the Parks. It was just poorly executed. Why does the County need a DPW? We are the only county in the state that doesn't have single inch of land that is unincorporated. Shouldn't the munipalities of the County be responsible for public works? What does the County DPW do that the municipal DPWs can't or don't do?

Hopefully that number will continue to increase. I would rather have more rooms in the Ghazi project and only 9 planned hotels downtown.

Pete Millard makes a bunch of stuff up, I wouldn't put too much stock in the details of that article.

One more thing: The taxes in Milwaukee, or Wisconsin for that matter are never quite the "Tax Hell" that Mark Belling, Charlie Sykes, or any other Right Wing mouthpieces make them out to be.

In Wyoming, for example with much lower property taxes, you have to pay a 5% (of the value of the vehicle) annual use tax on your car along with registration fees, just to keep your tags current. And the sales tax is 6%. No matter what you do to the property taxes, you need a certain amount of money. It will have to come from somewhere. As pointed out earlier, Milw has lower sales tax than many other metros that happen to have lower property taxes.
I would compare a different state if I were you because Wyoming doesn't have any state income tax at all.

Interesting article in the Business Journal of Milwaukee:
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/26/story1.html?i=48356
In this article it states the Ghazi mixed use proposal is planned for 200 hotel rooms instead of what I believe was originally only 150 rooms.
Why are they planning a convention center in New Berlin? There's no demand for that. Unless it'll be just for small conventions, too small for the Midwest Express Center.

I saw my brother over the weekend. He lives in West Allis, just two blocks from State fair Park. We were talking about the money problems they've been having and he said he thinks part of the problem is that there are no hotels near by. After argueing with him about some form of mass transit that could connect with the Park I have to say that the only place I can think of right now that is in need of hotel rooms outside the downtown area would be State Fair Park. otherwise I can't see all these planned hotels being very good for the metro.

The problem of merging Parks and DPW, however, is of course, that Walker wanted to operate both on the budget of one. The parks would then have come second for funds whenever the county highways needed money. Its bad enough already that they can't cut grass, or pick up trash. To then tell them "Well, no, sorry, but you can't have any money at all, because Layton Avenue needs new tar," is just ridiculous. I am not saying that parks are more important than roads (highway safety is of the utmost importance), I'm merely saying that they shouldn't be fighting over the same reduced dollars.

I would compare a different state if I were you because Wyoming doesn't have any state income tax at all.

This is true, but since I'm in the Air Force, I pay income tax to Wisconsin, so I don't see that. They do make up for it in other ways, through fees, etc.

I did, however commute to Cheyenne from Fort Collins, CO for a few years and Colorado does have a similiar usage tax for motor vehicles and they have higher property taxes and an income tax rate similiar to Wisc. So, for my argument, I guess Colorado would be a better comparison. Plus the voters there just repealed most of TABOR since it was choking too many services.

One more thing: The taxes in Milwaukee, or Wisconsin for that matter are never quite the "Tax Hell" that Mark Belling, Charlie Sykes, or any other Right Wing mouthpieces make them out to be.


Anyone that lives or does business in Wisconsin, particularly Milwaukee, knows that Wisconsin is a tax hell. None of us need anyone, right-wing or otherwise, to tell us that.

We're taxed immensely when we earn the money. We're taxed immensely for owning property. Then we're also taxed whenever we buy something. And all those other "fees" or whatever code-name the government gives them....they're all taxes too.

I simply don't understand how anyone can be for raising our taxes. Exactly how much more do I need to pay out in taxes before people realize this is a tax hell?

And it wouldn't be bad if we had amazing schools, clean government, and low crime to show for it. But we're paying up the ass for what?? 130 murders a year, dismal school statistics, declining parks, worsening transportation.....the list goes on.

We pay way more than anyone else, but we certainly don't get more than anyone else. Figure out a better way to spend the money we're already forking in....instead of always asking us for more.

Anyone that lives or does business in Wisconsin, particularly Milwaukee, knows that Wisconsin is a tax hell. None of us need anyone, right-wing or otherwise, to tell us that.

We're taxed immensely when we earn the money. We're taxed immensely for owning property. Then we're also taxed whenever we buy something. And all those other "fees" or whatever code-name the government gives them....they're all taxes too.

I simply don't understand how anyone can be for raising our taxes. Exactly how much more do I need to pay out in taxes before people realize this is a tax hell?

And it wouldn't be bad if we had amazing schools, clean government, and low crime to show for it. But we're paying up the ass for what?? 130 murders a year, dismal school statistics, declining parks, worsening transportation.....the list goes on.

We pay way more than anyone else, but we certainly don't get more than anyone else. Figure out a better way to spend the money we're already forking in....instead of always asking us for more.


And still, I have yet to hear a plausible alternative for fixing all of those things. Let's hear a real feasible alternative. I'm no fan of taxes. I am a federal empolyee, so in a way, I'm paying my own paycheck, which is again taxed. I don't know. I'm just waiting for a real solution like everyone else. Inflation and costs continue to rise, but county tax rates are kept essentially flat? Something has to give. Unfortunately, if you want to keep the same level of services, you are going to have to pay more for it.

we pay way more than anyone else, but we certainly don't get more than anyone else. Figure out a better way to spend the money we're already forking in....instead of always asking us for more.

This is true in the sense that Milwaukee pays more to the state (obviously given the size) than other cities but gets less back. The problem is state government and the rest of the state has a policy of screwing over Milwaukee when it comes to funding.. and only when we have multiple shootings one deadly weekend do they finally decide to allocate money to the city. The biggest change that needs to happen is how the state treats its largest city.

And still, I have yet to hear a plausible alternative for fixing all of those things. Let's hear a real feasible alternative. I'm no fan of taxes. I am a federal empolyee, so in a way, I'm paying my own paycheck, which is again taxed. I don't know. I'm just waiting for a real solution like everyone else. Inflation and costs continue to rise, but county tax rates are kept essentially flat? Something has to give. Unfortunately, if you want to keep the same level of services, you are going to have to pay more for it.

First time poster, but long time lurker and admirer of this forum. I am not an architect or urban planning professional just a Milwaukee enthusiast. You all do a wonderful job keeping track of the new and potential development and issues impacting Milwaukee.

My two cents on the key solution to this tax issue is this: increase the per capita taxable income in the Milwaukee metropolitan area. I know this seems elementary and it is, however this is really the key to maintaining and improving our beautiful parks, cultural offerings and schools. With high tax collections, raising taxes is less of an issue.

What we have in Milwaukee and largely in the upper Midwest is a declining tax base. We want to maintain and improve on the community's assets built up during the manufacturing heyday when there used to be a larger population.

We need to look at ourselves and ask what can we do to improve the average earnings of our region. If we can fix that, the tax issues are much less vexing.

Yup that bizjournal article is still referring to old information. The Ghazi project (unless something has dramatically changed) is NOT an Embassy Suites. That was a former project at the same site.

Someone had requested updated University Club Tower pictures... here are a few. Go here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=9030183#post9030183) for more.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6995/100507810gh.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1425/100508111yk.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6259/100508516pc.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6074/100508711el.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7288/100510413nr.jpg

Here's a bonus night pic of First Place on the River:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/225/10050607ob.jpg

The problem of merging Parks and DPW, however, is of course, that Walker wanted to operate both on the budget of one. The parks would then have come second for funds whenever the county highways needed money. Its bad enough already that they can't cut grass, or pick up trash. To then tell them "Well, no, sorry, but you can't have any money at all, because Layton Avenue needs new tar," is just ridiculous. I am not saying that parks are more important than roads (highway safety is of the utmost importance), I'm merely saying that they shouldn't be fighting over the same reduced dollars.


Very true, but also Public Transit should be taken into account as well, we are very foolish in this county to still use property taxes to fund MCTS. I take MCTS on a daily basis, and to hear now that I will have to pay 16 dollars for a weekly pass is quite disheartening. Back in the early 90's such a pass cost around 9 dollars, now it is if the current recommendation passes, almost double the cost 15 years ago. Now I know times change of course with inflation and all but regardless of that we already have some of the most expensive fares when it comes to a bus only transit system. A lot of the poorer people of the county mainly in the City of Milwaukee who rely on the bus to get to work are going to suffer more as Milwaukee County government continues to go down the hole... :( They really should find a dedicated source of funding for transit so that transit isnt in competition with parks, and the highway departments, in addition to what Milwaukee, WY stated about Parks, and the highways being in competition, they shouldnt have to compete either becaused of a combined department..

Just my silly little rant

A lot of the poorer people of the county mainly in the City of Milwaukee who rely on the bus to get to work are going to suffer more as Milwaukee County government continues to go down the hole...

And as they have issues getting to work, poverty will begin to increase, violence will increase, and more jobs will leave because of the violent impression they get of the city. And then it will repeat. We need leadership in Milwaukee to stop the cycle

And still, I have yet to hear a plausible alternative for fixing all of those things. Let's hear a real feasible alternative. I'm no fan of taxes. I am a federal empolyee, so in a way, I'm paying my own paycheck, which is again taxed. I don't know. I'm just waiting for a real solution like everyone else. Inflation and costs continue to rise, but county tax rates are kept essentially flat? Something has to give. Unfortunately, if you want to keep the same level of services, you are going to have to pay more for it.

I hope that you understand that the way to raise more income to the government is by growing the tax base, not raising the tax rate. As long as the tax base is growing, the government will continually receive more money, offsetting inflation. Raising the tax rate is one of the reasons so many business have left the state, and the reason why very few are looking to move here!

Under your idea, we would raise the tax rate every year to adjust for inflation? How high of a tax rate do we need before people like you realize we already pay too much!!

The thing that bothers me the most is that there is no amount of money that would be enough. The amount of money the state and local governments collect is more than nearly any other state. All I am saying is that spend the hoardes of money a little more wisely, instead of constantly coming to the taxpayers asking for more. Every day that passes, there are fewer and fewer left here to pay the tax burden. People have been realizing for decades that you can have the same quality of life and less taxes by moving away from Milwaukee. Keep raising the taxes here, and that exodus will only continue.

The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 1:41 PM CDT Tuesday

Columbia St. Mary's Inc. will begin construction Wednesday on its planned $417 million hospital on Milwaukee's east side, beginning a four-year project to consolidate the system's two existing nearby locations.

The 835,000-square-foot hospital, first announced in 2002, will be at the northwest corner of North Avenue and Lake Drive. When it opens in 2010, it will replace services now provided by hospitals at 2025 E. Newport Ave. and 232 N. Lake Drive.

The new facility will include 513 patient beds, a 32-percent decrease from the sum of the two locations. Hospital officials have said the efficiency created through consolidation will offset building costs.

The project will include the Water Tower Medical Commons, a medical office building to the west of Prospect Avenue from the hospital site. Construction began in April.

. People have been realizing for decades that you can have the same quality of life and less taxes by moving away from Milwaukee. Keep raising the taxes here, and that exodus will only continue.


Taxes are hardly the only reason for that exodus. They may contribute, but it's hardly the only reason.

Taxes are hardly the only reason for that exodus. They may contribute, but it's hardly the only reason.

I never said that they were the only reason. And it is a big reason retired people move, they can collect their income in Arizona with no state income tax.

The larger point I was making was that high taxes contribute to our continued loss of wealth and population. And you agreed with that in your above quote.

Then I fail to understand how raising the tax rates will generate the needed money to pay for everything. There will simply be even less people and business to pay an ever increasing share of the total.

But, by lowering the general tax rates, or at least offering tax incentives to businesses to relocate or start-up here, we will encourage growth, and, in turn, the government will get more money.

Quick mention: I went to the Public Market on Father's Day. Very cool. I spent a lot of money and my family had a very nice time.

At first I wasn't really sure if I like the design / size of the project.. the initial renderings made it seem like it really wouldn't fit with the area and it seemed too big. But now that it is taking shape, and some new renderings have been released I am warming up to the project. I was driving in that area last night and realized how totally different that area is going to be with First Place, the two new buildings by the social, the Vetter Denk offices, and that mystery lot across from Vetter Denk. The mystery lot may just be for holding construction equiqment but even so I doubt it will stay vacant too much longer!

Quick mention: I went to the Public Market on Father's Day. Very cool. I spent a lot of money and my family had a very nice time.

Glad to hear it. Bring the fam when Pier Wisconsin opens ... it will be worth it.

WEDNESDAY, June 28, 2006, 3:20 p.m.
By Tom Daykin


Stark Investments LP is expanding beyond its lakefront headquarters in St. Francis with a new operation at downtown's 1000 North Water office tower.

Stark Investments has agreed to lease just over 15,000 square feet at the building, 1000 N. Water St., according to Anthony Palermo, the building owner.

Stark Investments, a hedge fund operator, will eventually have around 85 to 90 employees in that space, with around 50 employees working at 1000 North Water by this fall, Bob DiDonato, chief administration officer, said today.

The firm has about 210 employees at its 63,000-square-foot headquarters at 3600 S. Lake Drive. Another 70 employees work at 10 other offices throughout the world.

These additional new jobs should help the City of Milwaukee.
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/06/26/daily43.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Too bad those 1,000 jobs weren't downtown. But, glad to see that they are creating more in general. :)

Skyscraperpage.com updated Milwaukee's bulidings diagram. Check out the small rendering of Lake Point Tower.

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?c77

^^ It's sort of odd that they included Lake Pointe Tower in the diagram considering this project hasn't really taken any steps past the planning stages. There are some buildings that are actually getting built that aren't in there yet.. Isn't LPT supposed to be as tall / a little bit taller as US Bank building as well?

My sentiments exactly. Isn't that rendering coming up a little short? Not all 42 story buildings are the same height, obviously. But I think their rendering is way off the mark.

I like the goldish color to the glass on the rendering though. adds color to the skyline...

The LPT diagram at SSP is based on the tiny little unfinalized conceptual sketch/study model rendering that was once posted on the engineer's website...which was also a good deal shorter than the US Bank Center.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2549/lakepointe5wj.jpg

The way the picture looks the angle that LPT is positioned does make it appear much shorter than it may actually be if LPT is built. Its a matter of visual perspective. Its kind of like if you drive past the WP&L power plant in Sheboygan from the south from I 43 the South Tower appears taller than the North Tower when both towers are the same height and as you continue further north the situation of the towers make the North Tower appear taller than the South Tower.

I was down on the lakefront for the fireworks last night and took a few pictures... here's one of my favorites, thought I'd share.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1761/popcorn2yj.jpg

cool photo^

Goodbye T.J. Ford, welcome Charlie V!!!!

good pic. i was out there last night and shot countless pictures. unfortunately the ones that are clear are too dark (quick shutter speed) and the ones that arent to dark are blurry. I dont have much of a steady hand. i have got to get a tripod

I just got back to Milwaukee for the first time in over a year and wow, the busses have gotten bad. It's gone up to over 20 min. between busses on all of the routes i ride on the East Side and in Riverwest (some of the busiest in the city) and it doesn't look like they've boughten a single new bus in over a year. Plus now, increased fares?

Hopefully someone will have a camera tonight for the fireworks show on the lakefront. They are supposed to launch some fireworks from atop the U.S. Bank building for the first time, that should be a sight to see from all over the area. It will also provide some great skyline shots of Milwaukee, especially if one is in a boat on the lake.

Well actually the County purchased busses 5000-5008 in January, but other than that...no... Its really a bad situation for the entire county....the way it looks passes and 10 tickets are supposed to raise to 16 dollars a piece... I wish we could go back to the more prosperous times, but unfortunately, we must work hard to find a solution...I pray for a day when the service that has been cut since 2000 can be restored, however in the near future it doesnt look like that will happen :(

On the east side its gotten bad i know, but even on the south side where i reside service just gets cut more, route 20 looks like it will be sliced badly next year (no trips south of layton) Its been quite a few years since a west to east route (route 50) was cut to only a meager school-day only route....it must be a much more pain on the east side where more people take the bus.


I just got back to Milwaukee for the first time in over a year and wow, the busses have gotten bad. It's gone up to over 20 min. between busses on all of the routes i ride on the East Side and in Riverwest (some of the busiest in the city) and it doesn't look like they've boughten a single new bus in over a year. Plus now, increased fares?

Who is with me in thinking Milwaukee County would benefit from having a hired county administrator?

From the cover of the Journal Sentinel:
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul06/fireworks070406.jpg

^^^breathtaking....not to many cities can do it like that.

From the cover of the Journal Sentinel:
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul06/fireworks070406.jpg
ohhhh-ahhhh Nice pic EastSider!

Happy 4th everybody!

I went to fireworks, it was really cool,
I walked from riverwest which wasnt that bad,
walking home took me 15 to 20 minutes,
more people need to walk in this town, I walked right past the traffic backed up at humbodlt and north, gas needs to go to six bucks a gallon before people start walking,

I watched the fireworks by frankling and prospect, what is that small parks name there i cant find it on google maps or yahoo maps,
anyways its the stairway just south of the brady bridge, the next south access to the lake, and we hung out there by the lagoon and it had great views of the us bank building and the main fireworks, the fireworks off the us bank building were cute and sounded like popcorn popping.

this was a longer than usual firework display right?
i think it went on for about an hour including the small breaks inbetween, there were three groups of fireworks and finales and one huge suprise burst at the end.
very nice, i have never seen milwaukee fireworks before as i am from the chicago area, and overall found it to be more enjoyable as it is much less crowded and easier to get around.

I watched the fireworks by frankling and prospect, what is that small parks name there i cant find it on google maps or yahoo maps

Burns Commons

this was a longer than usual firework display right?

Yes.

Oh yeah Burns Commons, the place Mandel steam rolled, and destroyed. Nice move DCD, yeah those condos with no rooflines, yeah that's deserving of destroying an urban space with mature trees, and put up that schlock metal piece of shit (sculpture??) tribute to Mandel's ego.

Greenstreet must have been out of town when that land grab, and destruction went down.

I went to fireworks, it was really cool,
I walked from riverwest which wasnt that bad,
walking home took me 15 to 20 minutes,
more people need to walk in this town, I walked right past the traffic backed up at humbodlt and north, gas needs to go to six bucks a gallon before people start walking.

I think most of the people at the fireworks come from outside the city, if not the county, so walking wouldn't really be that much of an option, especially when many people make a day out of it with picnicing and some even camping out. I was surprised by how many people were on bikes though, hopefully some of them get some common sense to have a light at night, but otherwise its was a very promising site that some people realized the fastest form of transportation was on two wheels.

I personally saw the fireworks from below the Solomon Jeanue Statue and the Kilbourn and UCT condos. The reflection of the fireworks both visually and the echo was pretty cool off of the Kilbourn tower windows. The balconies also seemed pretty full, I wonder how that view was those condos.

Oh yeah Burns Commons, the place Mandel steam rolled, and destroyed. Nice move DCD, yeah those condos with no rooflines, yeah that's deserving of destroying an urban space with mature trees, and put up that schlock metal piece of shit (sculpture??) tribute to Mandel's ego.

Greenstreet must have been out of town when that land grab, and destruction went down.


does someone have a picture of what it used to look like?
it was cool seeing people hanging out at some of the old mansions on prospect....
greenstreet?
mandel i guess is the developer,
yeah i hate when they sterilize an area, it does seem a bit sterile there,
but i think it will age well especially with more infill development in the area.

Does anyone have the renderings for Vetter Denk's new office in the fifth ward? I found a small image on Beyer Construction's website but was hoping to find a larget image.. here is the link to their press release with a small image:

http://www.beyer.com/httpwww.beyer.compress_161firstbuilding.htm

Dbl post

Here is an article on the Burns Commons statue.. I really don't know why there is a need to attack Mandel.. he did help raise the money for a piece of art from a respected artist.

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/metro/jul02/57956.asp

Oh yeah Burns Commons, the place Mandel steam rolled, and destroyed. Nice move DCD, yeah those condos with no rooflines, yeah that's deserving of destroying an urban space with mature trees, and put up that schlock metal piece of shit (sculpture??) tribute to Mandel's ego.

Greenstreet must have been out of town when that land grab, and destruction went down.

Instead of calling it a piece of shit, try to critique it from an art point of view. Just calling something shit isn't really that substantial of a review. What is your art background?

architecture.

And it is a piece a shit, that was a beautiful little vest-pocket park with trees, and those are all gone now.

How about do what Chicago does with Grant Park around Buckingham Fountain, one year Botero's sculptures were helicoptered in for the Summer, another year George Seigel's stuff was around, that would be almost an acceptable replacement for trees, almost.

And what replaced trees? a monument to Mandel's ego. He could have at least put some kind of small entablature on the roofline of that schlock condo project (overlooking his ego) he put on the land between Farwell and Prospect. I mean, damn that was one his first "developments" in downtown, and it looks like the Tacheedah women's prison with balconies. Yeah now he is with UCT so what, he took a dump on the most visible piece of real estate, the confluence of the East Side and downtown.

Okay you know where I stand on schlock replacing green urban spaces,
I'm done here. Please resume normal programming. :)

Trees are useless, I propose sculptures of trees throughout the city!

Trees are useless, I propose sculptures of trees throughout the city!

well said. same with plots of grass. instead, intricate sculptures of blades of grass. imagine playing soccer or frisbee on tiny sculptures!



k maybe a bit far...

double post

well said. same with plots of grass. instead, intricate sculptures of blades of grass. imagine playing soccer or frisbee on tiny sculptures!



k maybe a bit far...

It's very innovative!

Does anyone have the renderings for Vetter Denk's new office in the fifth ward? I found a small image on Beyer Construction's website but was hoping to find a larget image.. here is the link to their press release with a small image:

http://www.beyer.com/httpwww.beyer.compress_161firstbuilding.htm

There's a pretty good picture of the rendering at the physical site where the building will be built. I'm not sure of any online pictures though.

Reliable Knitting building will go condo

A Chicago-area developer has agreed to buy one of the Historic Third Ward's largest buildings, which he plans to convert into condominiums and retail space.

Yiannis Konstantinou said he plans to convert the seven-story building, now used by Reliable Knitting Works Inc., after Reliable shuts down its manufacturing operations in September.

Konstantinou said his development firm, Magnet Group Realty, plans to complete its purchase of the 135,000-square-foot building at 233 E. Chicago St. in October.

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=7/7/2006&id=8212

Whats up guys. Haven't been on here in while. Hope everyone had a great 4th of July the other day! Anyways, does anyone have any new pics of UCT or the Discovery World Aquarium?

DCD has a nice Park East Development Guide up on their website that shows most of the projects going on in and around the Park East boundary. You can click on the dots to see renderings.

http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast/index.html

DCD has a nice Park East Development Guide up on their website that shows most of the projects going on in and around the Park East boundary. You can click on the dots to see renderings.

http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast/index.html

Great find!

i can't get over how sweet that North End development looks

That Vetter Denk building is going to be great. I love the location...in that tiny lot with the train tracks and gritty buildings to the side.

Former mayor Frank Zeidler died last night from heart failure at age 93. A very good man who moved Milwaukee forward, a true asset to our great city... without him I do not know if Milwaukee would be where its at today,his annexation campaigns really helped expand Milwaukee growing during his years as mayor....a very good man who was a true civil servant...we need a lot more people like him today...may he rest in peace

i've got this webcam on my homepage. this was what it looked like yesterday so i saved it. notice UCTs progress

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/dresphotos/78bde415.jpg

In honor of the Big Gig
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/16/1607_large.jpg

And thank you out-of-towners for giving our Police Departent some much needed revenue:

Summerfest arrests

Day 1: 23 arrests (7 local, 16 out of town)

Day 2: 45 arrests (19 local, 26 out of town)

Day 3: 33 arrests (18 local, 15 out of town)

Day 4: 28 arrests (8 local, 20 out of town)

Day 5: 36 arrests (7 local, 29 out of town)

Day 6: 40 arrests (13 local, 27 out of town)

Day 7: 47 arrests (12 local, 35 out of town)

Day 8: 46 arrests (37 local, 9 out of town)

Source: Milwaukee Police Department

Do we know what the attendance was?

Do we know what the attendance was?

Those figures are supposed to be released sometime this week

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/16/1608_large.jpg

Still love the guitars!! They should keep them all year

From JSOnline:

Final Summerfest arrests total 389
Nearly 400 people were arrested over the 11-day run of Summerfest, Milwaukee police announced this morning.

The final numbers: 389 people arrested, 30 of them juveniles, and more than 80 percent of all those arrested lived outside the five-county Milwaukee metropolitan area, according to a release from department spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz.

The single most common offense - no surprise - was underage drinking. There were 245 charges of possession of alcohol by an underage person.

Other numbers and categories were:

7 charges for furnishing alcohol to an underage person
41 charges for possession of a controlled substance
59 charges for disorderly conduct
13 charges for battery
33 charges for resisting/obstructing an officer
10 charges for theft
11 arrests on warrants

Another developer plans Water Street hotel
Originally published 2006-07-10 00:00:00

A Fort Myers, Fla.-based developer plans to build a $20 million, nine-story building with 120 extended-stay hotel rooms, 18 residential condominiums and 10,000 square feet of first floor retail space on the first floor at the southeast corner of Juneau Avenue and Water Street in downtown Milwaukee.

Market Street Partners II LLP, a group of local investors, wants to purchase the properties at 1128-30 and 1132-44 N. Water St. and 209, 215 and 219 E. Juneau Ave. from the city of Milwaukee for the project. The city’s Redevelopment Authority will review the request on Thursday, July 13.

Market Street Partners would assemble and provide the merged site to DOC Milwaukee LLC for the project. DOC president Phil Hugh is a Fort Myers, Fla.-based developer who is currently involved with hotel remodeling and development projects in Fort Myers, Pittsburgh and Slippery Rock, Pa.

The Milwaukee properties owned by the city total approximately 9,200 square feet. Under the developers' plan, those properties will be combined with 1124 N. Water St. and 223 E. Juneau Ave., which are controlled by Market Street Partners II LLP, to create a single development parcel that is approximately 30,200 square feet.

The project is one of several hotels being proposed for the downtown area in recent months.

Another developer plans Water Street hotel
Originally published 2006-07-10 00:00:00

A Fort Myers, Fla.-based developer plans to build a $20 million, nine-story building with 120 extended-stay hotel rooms, 18 residential condominiums and 10,000 square feet of first floor retail space on the first floor at the southeast corner of Juneau Avenue and Water Street in downtown Milwaukee.

Market Street Partners II LLP, a group of local investors, wants to purchase the properties at 1128-30 and 1132-44 N. Water St. and 209, 215 and 219 E. Juneau Ave. from the city of Milwaukee for the project. The city’s Redevelopment Authority will review the request on Thursday, July 13.

Market Street Partners would assemble and provide the merged site to DOC Milwaukee LLC for the project. DOC president Phil Hugh is a Fort Myers, Fla.-based developer who is currently involved with hotel remodeling and development projects in Fort Myers, Pittsburgh and Slippery Rock, Pa.

The Milwaukee properties owned by the city total approximately 9,200 square feet. Under the developers' plan, those properties will be combined with 1124 N. Water St. and 223 E. Juneau Ave., which are controlled by Market Street Partners II LLP, to create a single development parcel that is approximately 30,200 square feet.

The project is one of several hotels being proposed for the downtown area in recent months.


That's good news. That surface lot is such a hole in the urban continuity of water street. Finally filling that awkward empty space will be a huge visual improvement for the street.

One year ago, Milwaukee-area office building developers were waiting for Manpower Inc. executives to decide where they wanted the company's headquarters to be. Manpower considered several Milwaukee County locations before choosing the downtown site along the Milwaukee River.

This year, the Milwaukee-area office market has been mostly quiet, but commercial real estate observers are watching Robert W. Baird & Co. Inc. to see if the company decides to move its headquarters out of the U.S. Bank building at 777 E. Wisconsin Ave. in downtown Milwaukee. The company is seeking proposals for about 250,000 square feet of office space. It may decide to stay put, or the company could decide to move, triggering construction of a major new office building.
Several buildings have been proposed in downtown Milwaukee, but have remained on the drawing board because they have been unable to attract an anchor tenant.

Robert W. Baird could make a decision later this year about its office space plans. There is one other significant office tenant that is in the market for new space and could trigger construction of a new downtown office building, said William Bonifas, executive vice president of the office group for Polacheck. He declined to name the firm. The downtown office market is flat, but there is still interest in new buildings, Bonifas said. The best chance for a new downtown building to get off the ground is for it to have a mixture of office, residential, retail and possibly hotel space, he said.

"I believe new (downtown) projects could get off the ground," Bonifas said. "The office portion may only be a few hundred square feet. The market could handle that." One problem for the Milwaukee-area office market is that many of the area's financial services companies are not growing enough that they need more space, Bonifas said. However, some office tenants in the area are expanding. Construction began this year on one major office development, and two more are expected to begin later this year.