View Full Version : Orange Line heads toward overcapacity!


archd1
June 14th, 2006, 03:58 AM
Article Launched: 06/13/2006 12:00:00 AM PDT

Orange Line heads toward overcapacityBY RACHEL URANGA, Staff Writer

With the Orange Line nearly surpassing its 15-year ridership goals in just seven months, transit experts say the MTA should consider expanding the line and even adopting a light-rail system - sooner rather than later - to meet soaring passenger demand.

Spurred by rising gas prices and a surprisingly strong appetite for public transit, thousands more passengers than anticipated are boarding the 14-mile, $330 million busway each day.

And while the Metropolitan Transportation Authority says it can handle the load, transport experts say a capacity problem looms.

"The system was underbuilt and underfunded," said Nate Brogin, a former chairman of the Valley Industry and Commerce Association's transportation committee. "What we need is to go back and rebuild the system, the correct way - not the cheapest."

A longtime advocate of above- or below-ground transportation, including rail and subterranean busways, he and others say the bus line could reach capacity sooner than the MTA thinks.

But MTA officials say with buses running every three minutes, ridership would have to soar - from close to 22,000 now to 30,000 to 40,000 - before it hit capacity.

"We are not anywhere near (exceeding) capacity of the line," said Gary Spivac, an MTA manager in charge of the San Fernando Valley.

Yet, with gas prices hovering around $3.40 a gallon, the demand could come sooner than the MTA plans, experts warn. Ridership along the busway has followed a steady climb upward, rising 31 percent since opening. The agency has already had to add four buses along the route.

Across the county, the MTA has logged a surge in riders, with rail ridership climbing 18 percent over last year. MTA bus ridership has increased 10 percent in the past 12 months.
Agency officials who spent $270,000 in May to promote "Free yourself, Go Metro" - a bus-over-car campaign - largely pin the jump to gas prices.

"These ridership rates won't go down because the cost of driving is going to continue to go up with the direct cost that commuters pay (in gas) and in time," said Hasan Ikhrata, director of planning and policy for the Southern California Associations of Governments.

"We should have thought about this last year. You are providing good and needed services but you need a much higher level of frequency than you have today."

Ikhrata says buses should be running every 20 seconds rather than every three minutes as they do now. Others take a harder line, calling for a long-term rail project, a notion long dismissed as being too costly.

"Clearly there is a demand here," said Richard Katz, a mayoral appointee to the MTA board and former Assembly member who sat on the transportation committee for more than a decade. "We


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have to look at what we can do to meet the needs of the riders. I don't want to see people turned off because the buses are too crowded.

"In the long term, we need to look at if we need to switch to light-rail buses."

For much of the 1980s and 1990s, officials and transit advocates wrestled over how to supply the sprawling Valley's growing commuter class with an effective transportation system.

But NIMBY-ism and opposing views that ranged from a monorail over the Ventura Freeway to a subway, forced officials to settle on a much less ambitious busway system that could be built for less money.

Considered the Cadillac of the MTA system, the busway boasts its own landscaping, right-of-way and a bike path. The 57-seat, train-like buses see more riders than the $898 million Gold Line that runs from Pasadena to downtown Los Angeles.

Early surveys of the line showed that 20 percent of the riders were new to public transportation.

"It's a no-brainer," said Richard Petty of North Hollywood, a public transportation convert. "I asked myself, Do I really need to drive to work?"

For three months, the former car commuter has been loyal to the Orange Line. But over that time he's seen an uptick in passengers and now says he avoids the packed buses at the 5 p.m. commuting hour.

An early advocate of the line, MTA board member Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky said the agency should hold off at least 18 months to determine whether ridership will remain steady or plunge if gas prices fall.

But, he adds, the Orange Line's unique pathway allows it to expand with more buses or even into light rail. Already, he said, the MTA is speaking with bus manufacturers about higher-capacity vehicles.

"This is a good problem to have because it's really not a problem. It's a capacity management issue," said Yaroslavsky, an MTA board member and longtime advocate for the Orange Line.

"There is no practical limit to what the Orange Line can handle. It should be encouraging the MTA to promote this approach to public transit elsewhere in the county and in the Valley."

Staff Writer Angie Valencia contributed to this story.

rachel.uranga@dailynews.com

(818) 713-3741

LosAngelesSportsFan
June 14th, 2006, 04:14 AM
Great Numbers by the Orange line, if only it was a rail line, or an extension of the red line above ground, it might have 45,000 riders a day right now.


Not to Hijack your thread, but i figured this would be the best place to post these pics. The first one is the Current Metro map and the Second is LA in 5 years as made by J Church of SSP and the third is a vision by PracticalVisionary from SSP. Also, Damien from SSP will reveal his new map, which was put togther through lots of brainstorming and work from a lot of forumers from SSP. As soon as he posts it, i will copy it here with his permission.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/MetroMapNow.gif

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/MetroMap5years.gif

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/MetroMapF.gif

godblessbotox
June 14th, 2006, 05:59 AM
even in the wildest dreams... no luck for san gabriel. oh well

Fern~Fern*
June 14th, 2006, 06:02 AM
^ Hey you forgot about the (Yellow Line)..........

godblessbotox
June 14th, 2006, 07:23 AM
no the yellow line going to pasadena and the one serving east la. both lines are equidistant from my pad <about 4 miles>. thus both lines are more of an inconvenience for me to use. but we shall see... in 2o2o



edit, perhaps i could drive to el monte and take the metro link <which i know nothing about> and then take the red line to universal and then take a bus? to moorpark and woodman. i would love to take transite... but i guess its not time yet

archd1
June 14th, 2006, 08:12 AM
LA Sportsfan:
In the diagram, shouldn't the Brown Line go all the way to downtown San Pedro or the LA harbor? and the Green Line I thought could be extended all the way to Torrance since there is a rail line that cuts through it's downtown. Another suggestion: Hawthorne Blvd is a major North-South 405 freeway alternate and a lot of motorists take this route to the South Bay. Surely, either a rail line or busway along La Brea Ave, say from Hollywood to Hawthorne Blvd in Inglewood down all the way to PCH near Palos Verdes is much needed. The Green Line at the 105 fwy and the Expo Line intersects Hawthorne as well......

Fern~Fern*
June 14th, 2006, 08:33 AM
no the yellow line going to pasadena and the one serving east la. both lines are equidistant from my pad <about 4 miles>. thus both lines are more of an inconvenience for me to use. but we shall see... in 2o2o



edit, perhaps i could drive to el monte and take the metro link <which i know nothing about> and then take the red line to universal and then take a bus? to moorpark and woodman. i would love to take transite... but i guess its not time yet


^ Actually the Yellow Line goes from No Ho, Burbank, Glendale, LA Zoo into Downtown Los Angeles. Your referring to the Gold Line.......... anyhow, There's no Bus service on Moorpark/Woodman for some reason. Why do you work at the mall or Sunkist?

godblessbotox
June 14th, 2006, 06:48 PM
no... its a studio

klamedia
June 14th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Have you guys checked this out? http://www.mta.net/board/Items/2006/05_May/20060503RBMItem45handout.pdf
This gives you a good idea of what the MTA has on their radar regarding future rail and highways. The SGV will be served by the Gold Line all the way to Citrus(???) This in my opinion is a boondoggle and could be served by Metrolink. The map also gives you density tracts. Rapid should only be in high and fairly high areas.

godblessbotox
June 14th, 2006, 08:48 PM
i thougth that the 90 extension was not happening


"currently unmet program needs:
new highway projects"

godblessbotox
June 14th, 2006, 08:52 PM
go silver line gooooooooooooooooooooooo!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/godblessbotox/Untitled-1-1.jpg

klamedia
June 14th, 2006, 09:31 PM
I would like to see the Silver Line continue down Santa Monica Blvd and meet up with the Red Line, possibly tracking with it to SM.

hughfb3
July 6th, 2006, 06:32 AM
I would like to see the Silver Line continue down Santa Monica Blvd and meet up with the Red Line, possibly tracking with it to SM.

The silver line, if built, will be light rail; ergo, they will not be able to share track.

But GO SILVER LINE!!!!!!!!

godblessbotox
July 6th, 2006, 06:42 PM
yah! a supporter!!!

archd1
July 6th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Since we are talking about busways, I've always thought that having a busway (as the cheaper solution as some experts would suggest) along the 405 median would have made much more sense than spending $200 million or so for the 405 carpool lane. I'd like to see a comprehensive policy from the MTA or CALTrans that would eventually squeeze-out the car as the primary mode of transit in Los Angeles. If they say that busways are cheaper and quicker to build then let's have them for now. Convert all existing carpools lanes in all major freeways into busways---exclusive right-of-ways for buses and passenger vans. Freeway widening should altogether stop!

godblessbotox
July 6th, 2006, 08:26 PM
just make a bus way like the 10... its primarly there for busses but as long as two or more are in your car then you too can use it. also throught most its run it is seperated from the freeway which helps keep the fake carpoolers out

mongozx
July 7th, 2006, 04:24 AM
It would be cool to see LA's transit system develop to resemble a grid. Do you think that'll ever happen?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/MetroMap5years.gif

Is there any talk of a North<>South system near the coast? And another one more inland? Or would that be impractical?

LosAngelesSportsFan
July 7th, 2006, 06:17 AM
plenty of talk and plenty of propsed lines out there. the most important line other than the Wilshire line or the Downtown Connector is the 405 line, a line that would go from the valley connect to UCLA/Westwood, connect to the Red there, connect to Expo in Santa Monica and possibly head to LAX. this line would be amazing and would tie together the whole system and really give people options in West LA, the Valley and to get to UCLA and LAX, two of the top traffic generators in all of California. There is no concrete plan in place yet, and no timetable unfortunatley, but this line or something similar needs to, has to, be built asap!

SpaceMan1
July 7th, 2006, 10:29 AM
Has the Purple Line been greenlighted to be built? I see it on that second map of LA in 5 years.

Anyway, yes the Orange Line should probably be converted into light rail. My only question is: how long would that take and would their be an interruption in service?

Also, a Orange-line type busway or some kind of rapid bus transitway down the 405 should be built PRONTO.

volsung
July 9th, 2006, 07:38 PM
The Purple Line is what they are re-naming the Wilshire/Western segment of the Red Line. They want top stop confusion and simply have two lines instead of one with a branch. MTA might also extend the Purple Line further down under Wilshire.

volsung
July 9th, 2006, 07:42 PM
In addition to the new Blue Line painted vehicles, I've seen several Red Line trains with a new paint scheme of metallic silver with one thick red line across. They used to look very 80s with abstract red and black shapes on the sides but now they are making them more smooth and simple. Also they begun replacing the old uncomfortable red seat covers with the comfortable seat covers that are found on the Gold Line and Green Line.

Phanlax
July 10th, 2006, 06:17 AM
Indeed, I was very surprised last week to find blue seat covers on the red line, although I didn't notice any difference in how it felt. I have not seen the new color scheme on the red line cars though, and I remember hearing a long time ago that the red line cars were NOT going to be painted, but that was around the same time painted Limited stop buses still seemed like a good idea.

klamedia
July 10th, 2006, 05:14 PM
The silver line, if built, will be light rail; ergo, they will not be able to share track.

But GO SILVER LINE!!!!!!!!

Their are instances if built to spec where light rail lines can run on a heavy rail system. Their really isn't much different from light and heavy, save for light having an overhead canopy type of electrification while heavy using third rail power. Length and width of cars can come into play but nothing is written in stone about that.

samsonyuen
July 10th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Good news. Maybe LRT will come sooner than we thought!

godblessbotox
July 10th, 2006, 10:41 PM
...?

klamedia
July 11th, 2006, 08:09 AM
Yep and I thought it was already here.......?

SpaceMan1
July 11th, 2006, 09:08 AM
He meant he hoped LRT would come to the Orange Line specifically (I think). The article suggests that the line be converted, but there are no definite plans yet.

archd1
July 12th, 2006, 07:40 AM
True, it might take sometime since ridership should double to 40,000 to reach capacity before they can even plan on converting the line to light rail.....

godblessbotox
July 14th, 2006, 08:12 AM
holy cow did anyone see the channel 13 news?

crazy crazy man

klamedia
July 14th, 2006, 08:32 AM
Why, what happened??

godblessbotox
July 14th, 2006, 08:38 AM
ha ha ha.. some guy who worked for the MTA got a notice that he was getting (fired?) and he went on a rampage. took his bus and drove it into an articulated bus. pushing it into another. then got into another bus and went crazy in the employee parking lot running into every car he saw until he pined a saturn between another bus... hes in jail now

godblessbotox
July 15th, 2006, 03:02 AM
talk about something concerning la! did anyone else see this or hear anything about it?

EtherealMist
July 15th, 2006, 03:06 AM
thats good to see

Reluctantpopstar
July 20th, 2006, 08:27 AM
The silver line, if built, will be light rail; ergo, they will not be able to share track.

But GO SILVER LINE!!!!!!!!


Not necessarily. They could continue the Red Line from Union Station and link that up with the Eastern portion of the Silver Line to El Monte. This could be in the trench or "at grade." Just because it's "heavy rail", doesn't mean it has to be underground. Approximately 30% of the New York subway system is at grade or elevated.

Then the Blue Line could continue north through the Downtown Connector and take up the western portion of the Silver Line to east Hollywood, or possibly continue on to Glendale.

My methodology in recommending these routings is to make the existing lines as long as possible, which will cut down on transfers.

Reluctantpopstar
July 20th, 2006, 08:38 AM
In addition to the new Blue Line painted vehicles, I've seen several Red Line trains with a new paint scheme of metallic silver with one thick red line across. They used to look very 80s with abstract red and black shapes on the sides but now they are making them more smooth and simple.

They have been working on standardizing the rail car liveries. In addition to having only one type of railcar in the future that would work on all the light rail lines (this doesn't include the Red Line), all of the rail cars (including the Red Line) are going to be getting a standard grey (silver?) paint job with very small bits of trim. All the cars should be painted in a year or two. Supposedly we will have all new light rail cars by 2009 (which is good since the cars on the blue line are already 17 years old, as they were built in 1989).

However, the cars on the Red Line should last much longer, since they didn't go into service until 1993, and they never see any weather as they are indoors all the time.

Phanlax
July 20th, 2006, 05:09 PM
Actually, since theb Red Line yard is outrside, near the LA River, they still get some weather damage. Some mornings during and after storms, I see nearly all the Red Line cars very dirty and wet from the outside.

Not only that but there have been many times where the doors on the red line cars open in the middle of a tunnel when they are going very fast.

godblessbotox
July 31st, 2006, 04:33 AM
metro numbers:
http://mta.net/press/pressroom/facts.htm