Docklands a wasted opportunity? (http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/docklands-a-wasted-opportunity/2006/06/16/1149964737944.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1)

The Age (www.theage.com.au)
By Royce Millar
17 June 2006

The "instant city" approach to redeveloping Docklands has delivered what critics say are run-of-the-mill buildings exclusively for people with buckets of money.

'A waterfront spectacular. An urban oasis. A modern marvel." The State Government's new coffee table history of Melbourne's Docklands is 300 pages of hyperbole, of heroic efforts to transform 200 hectares of derelict waterfront into the sparkling new face of the city. But, like all official histories, it's not the full story.

Former planning minister in the Kennett government Rob Maclellan, who had responsibility for Docklands in the late 1990s, is quoted in the book lauding the great views. His more critical comments - including about Docklands' finances and their drain on the public purse - were edited out and now, he says, the tome is a "pious little history". What is needed, he says, is a "brutal analysis" of the biggest urban redevelopment in Australian history.

Thirty years after planners and politicians began considering what to do with Melbourne's old docks, and almost a decade since work began on the first major project, the Docklands Stadium, the "brutal analysis" is beginning. Just what has been delivered for hundreds of millions in public funding? (This, after the project was supposed to cost taxpayers nothing.) Is it good design that has caught the world's eye, or a bland, corporate makeover? Does it add to the rich diversity of Melbourne or dilute it? Who lives there and why?

Docklands isn't finished - two-thirds of it has yet to be built, a task supposed to take another 10 years but some say it could take decades.

After years of sensitivity, verging on paranoia, some key people familiar with the Docklands project are starting to talk about it publicly for the first time. These are people involved in the beginning of Docklands, or senior politicians, architects and planners involved periodically at crucial times. Many, but not all, are disappointed. Some are angry. Generally, they say that Docklands is not what it could have been, and certainly not what it should have been.

"They should blow it up and start again," says Swinburne housing researcher Professor Terry Burke, who contributed to the Kirner government's 1992 Docklands strategy. "The lack of social mix at Docklands will be a problem in the long run."

State Architect John Denton - who as a partner in architectural firm Denton Corker Marshall is responsible for major Melbourne landmarks including the Bolte Bridge and and Jeff's Shed (the Exhibition Centre) - tries hard to be polite when he says the Dockland's architecture is "variable . . . I think we've got to hope towards getting some better and better results."

One of Melbourne's high priests of design, RMIT University professor Leon van Schaik says that it's all corporate homogenity, lacking in grit. "It's just the usual, run-of-the-mill, second-rate modernism."

Most acknowledge that Docklands is no disaster, but nor is it a work of art. "Look, it's a work in progress," says former Kennett major projects minister Mark Birrell.

From the crest of the La Trobe Street extension, the new view of the waterfront is panoramic. This fresh perspective on the city is worth something in itself. So is the 30-metre walkway around the precinct, a new sports stadium and concourse immediately adjacent to a major railway station, and a waterside tram route. Yet many people expected more. Social justice campaigner Mary Crooks, who worked on the 1992 strategy, says: "It's disappointing because it could have been an incredibly large jewel in Melbourne's crown and I think it's less than that, much less than that."

At what should be the heart of Docklands, between Telstra Dome and the old wharf sheds of Victoria Dock, on a sunny winter's day, there is nobody. Off in the distance to the north are the apartment towers and restaurants of NewQuay and the open plaza, pubs and cafes of the entertainment-themed Waterfront City. Even further away to the south are the upmarket towers of Yarra's Edge. In between is the colourful National Australia Bank - the first major building at developer Lend Lease's Victoria Harbour. The three precincts are dislocated, remote and little happens in between. Eventually some kids turn up to skateboard. On repeated visits, the story is the same. This is not the bustling, vibrant place depicted in the book, Waterfront Spectacular.

There are two key criticisms of Docklands. One is that the project was in trouble as soon as the Kennett government decided in the early 1990s that it would be market-driven with no government subsidy. The second flows from the first: the parcelling of Docklands into seven large precincts to make the project commercially viable, and its release to the market, all at once - the "instant city" approach, as developer Morry Schwartz calls it. This strategy also meant negotiable planning where developers were encouraged to challenge rules such as height controls. Only developers with big architects and big wallets could afford to tackle Docklands. And only big apartment towers and big corporate offices could deliver the level of return to justify the risk.

Developer Morry Schwartz says this "big, gutsy" approach was the only way to exploit the run of eventual "luck" for the project, including one of the biggest property booms in Australian history. "If it had been done in a slower, more organic way it would have taken 100 years, forever."

But the domino effect of "instant city", say critics, is that only cashed-up apartment buyers and renters and major commercial tenants are welcome. More than half of Docklands residents have a median income of more than $1000 a week. Only 12 per cent of Melburnians earn that much. Commercial tenants include NAB and finance and insurance giant AXA. The ANZ is hovering. The majority of developers, builders, architects, entrepreneurs, small businesses, artists and lower-income residents are excluded, and the architecture, urban design and social mix reflect this.

Denton's preference would have been to concentrate development at a central area - between Flinders and Bourke Street east of Victoria Dock - and let it grow outwards. "The more laissez faire and commercial the response, the less you control where things start, and where things happen, and you end in the short term with what you have now," he says - remote precincts and lifeless areas. "If you had all the developments down there now inside that central area there, that bit would be humming. It would be bursting at the seams Then you could progressively expand outwards in a rational sort of way."

He is confident that the parts will eventually join, but he believes the chance was missed to make Docklands a more vibrant extension of the city in the short and medium term.

Concern about dislocation and dead areas is shared by many commentators, even by former planning minister Maclellan. But Mark Birrell says like the CBD, Docklands should not be judged too early. He says the Hoddle Grid, parcelled up and sold off in large chunks like Docklands, was "patchy" for 70 years. "If you'd measured the success of the CBD 30 years into its development, you would have said: 'What's this, a railway station up one end grand as hell and the Treasury Building down the other end looking like something out of Paris. Then you've got tents and dirt paths in between?' "THE area known as Docklands was salty marshland before Europeans transformed it first into a noxious quagmire and then began work on a new wharf for the thriving gold-rush territory in the 1870s. A century later property players, planners and politicians began to ponder the future use for the docks as new container wharves took water-front work downstream and away from the old finger pier at Victoria Dock. Like Robert Hoddle 150 years before, Melburnians had a blank canvas upon which they could create anything. But it was also a publicly owned blank canvas in the heart of the city, and that raised expectations.

By 1990, the Cain and Kirner govern-ment had tried but failed to kickstart development through doomed schemes for an Olympic Games village and a mysterious hi-tech Japanese city - the Multi-Function Polis. Labor's Docklands Taskforce released a strategy underpinned by principles of social equity and the environment. It pro-posed concentrating initial development at a central point at the eastern end of the pre-cinct. The plan included parkland, medium density housing and a levy on developers to pay for some public housing.

But Docklands was never going to be easy. A man-made waterfront carved out of swamp, it was unstable for construction and heavily contaminated in parts. Spencer Street station and rail lines, and the truck-laden Footscray Road, had cut Docklands off from the CBD and the only road into it was Flinders Street. Then there was a paralysed property market, a recession, and the state's emerging rustbucket image, and the 1992 strategy looked ambitious. "Noble" is how former Kennett major projects minister Mark Birrell describes the Labor plan.

Initially wary when they won the 1992 election, the Liberals eventually embraced Docklands under the mantra that the Gov-ernment would not contribute a cent. The Docklands Authority mission statement was rewritten to stress that the project would not be a "burden on taxpayers". Developers would pay for everything: roads, trams, sewerage and even public art.

"We didn't want to create an orchid," says Rob Maclellan. "It was about proving it can be done successfully, not proving that you can subsidise it to make it successful."

The strategy was a test of the govern-ment's free-market philosophy. In 1993 the Docklands Authority annual report boldly predicted that work would begin within months. By 1996 nothing had happened. Developers were tempted but tentative; fear-ful of uncertainty. Docklands, after all, was little more than a large, unserviced tract of Coode Island silt.

One by one, preferred bidders either walked away from Docklands or were rejected by the authority for failing to offer enough for their share of infrastructure. Through the later 1990s, successful bids col-lapsed at six of the seven precincts.

Maclellan admits that, in the mid-1990s, the Government was "lashing around" for something, anything, to kickstart Docklands. "We tried for technology park, we tried for intellectual, we said let's have IT or medical; and in the end we found it in the same old place we always find it in Victoria, sport." Football, to be precise, in the shape of the stadium that became known as Colonial, then Telstra Dome.

Quietly the Kennett government aban-doned its no-spend policy and found $61 million to prop up the stadium includ-ing the Bourke Street footbridge and the extension of La Trobe Street. "Yes in a twinkling of an eye it (the no public money line) changed because if they (the Dock-lands Authority) can talk someone into giving them money, they'll spend it; and they did," says Maclellan.

Soon after, developer Mirvac signed for the Yarra's Edge residential precinct on the southern bank of the Yarra, and MAB Cor-poration for NewQuay on the north side of the Victoria Dock. Docklands was away.

Once loosened, the government purse strings remained so, a trend that continued when the Bracks Government took office in 1999. An analysis for The Age by the RMIT business school estimates that after deduct-ing developer contributions and land sales, Docklands appears to have cost taxpayers about $470 million. And that does not include federal contributions or likely future outlays, including for the reinstatement of the Webb Dock rail line severed by Dock-lands.

The Bracks Government has supplanted the "no public cost" with an emphasis on economic benefits - new investment and jobs. It estimates that when complete, the market value of Docklands will be $10 billion.

If, as projected, the Government's final net outlay is tallied at $100 million it would be a return on investment of 100 to one. "The Docklands model is a world-beating model," said the former VicUrban chief executive John Tabart last year. "People come from all over the world to find out how did we attract so much private money to an essentially public-initiated project."

Others dismiss such claims as more Docklands spin. "Those figures are a lie and demonstrably so," says Tony Crabb, investment strategy manager with property consultancy Savills. They ignore the fact that much of the investment at Docklands would have happened elsewhere in Melbourne, with most of the new offices built in the CBD. "Docklands will be a drag on the CBD for 50 years. It is an outrage and should never have been allowed," says Crabb.

Melburnians might not care too much about the cost if the results were interesting, imaginative or lively. In a new book on architecture and design in Victoria, RMIT University professor Leon van Schaik argues that Melbourne is to the early 2000s what Barcelona was to the 1980s and Amsterdam and Rotterdam to the 1990s - a global design hotspot. He points to large projects such as Federation Square and the vibrant work of architects and artists tucked away in laneways and back streets. But notable by its absence, is the place where Melbourne's architecture is most obviously on show.

"Our Docklands is not a place you would take people if you were bringing them to Melbourne and wanted to show them what this city can do," he told The Age. "The vast majority of buildings are mediocre and could be anywhere in the world."

Van Schaik is surprisingly frank, describing the Fender Katsalidis towers at NewQuay as "second rate compared to what they have done elsewhere where they had more control". He says the apartment tower by architect Wood Marsh at Yarra's Edge was designed as an "elegant" building but became "pregnant" when built, with "the client pumping in more and more apartments to get more and more return".

"The way Docklands was done drove inevitably to this lowest common denominator architecture which has eventuated in almost all cases."

The only Docklands picture in van Schaik's book is of developer Morry Schwartz's twin Watergate apartment towers designed by Schwartz's daughter's firm, Elenberg Fraser. Van Schaik acknowledges that the Watergate buildings at least "had their moments".

Seated on a pink vinyl couch in the foyer of one the towers, Schwartz smiles when van Schaik's comments are raised. "I agree with him overall," he says, then quickly describes his own buildings as "exceptional". Schwartz says Docklands architecture is not "optimal" but, pointing back to the CBD notes that nor is Melbourne's more generally. This is a common response from many of those directly involved at Docklands - it's not state-of-the-art, but it's better than most of Melbourne.

Ian McDougall, director in the prominent Ashton Raggatt McDougall firm was a key consultant to the Docklands Authority (now VicUrban) through the 1990s. In general he agrees with van Schaik that the work of the Docklands architects is not necessarily their best. "Yes, you would have hoped that there would have been some real out there stuff, down there," he says, lamenting a lack of innovative design. But like Schwartz, McDougall points to other areas in Melbourne - especially the residential towers of Southbank - and says Docklands is superior. "It could be better. It could have been a lot better. but it's actually better than any other big project in Melbourne or Sydney."

Docklands to most people means either the area around the stadium or MAB Corporation's NewQuay at the north side of Victoria Dock. The stadium is a mixed blessing. It was the large project needed to kickstart the troubled precinct and draw crowds to a hitherto unknown part of Melbourne. But as an inward-looking venue, where even the sun is excluded, it does not relate well to the waterfront. It works as a barrier between the CBD and the water and has rendered the large public space in front of it, dead; a defacto skateboard rink where Docklands' heart ought to be.

"It's not yet proven that that's where people want to gather," says former Cain planning minister and Docklands consultant Evan Walker. McDougall, who played an important role in the design of the area, says he was constantly frustrated by the lack of funds to create anything exciting there. Even former VicUrban chief executive and Docklands' leading defender, John Tabart, acknowledges an absence of life at this part of his beloved creation. "I would have been happier if even more was concentrated around the centre than what it is."

With a south-westerly blowing in off the water on a grey winter's day, NewQuay is bleak at best and as Walker acknowledges, "a little lonely".

Ground-breaking Melbourne architects of the 1990s, Fender Katsalidis played a leading role in designing NewQuay but, while the company's buildings were marketed individually, and their artistic merits promoted through their names - the Boyd, the Arkley and the Nolan - partner Carl Fender now says he prefers to assess Docklands "precinctually rather than architecturally".

He says that despite the lack of sun, people love NewQuay and flock to the restaurants and bars. "It was post-industrial Footscray a few minutes ago. Now it's a very highly populated new face of Melbourne that has to transcend one's opinion of one building or another."

In the only comprehensive academic analysis of Docklands, University of Melbourne professor of architecture Kim Dovey says NewQuay is compromised by the Kennett government's precinct strategy and flexible planning. In his 2005 book Fluid City, Dovey points out that earlier plans for Docklands repeatedly recommended height limits no greater than 20 metres for the NewQuay area to prevent overshadowing. But through negotiable planning, MAB was allowed to build 80-metre apartment towers that "plunged the harbour and the waterfront into shade for much of the year".

"Here we see a trade between the public interest in urban amenity and the private interest in maximum height," he writes. He argues that rather than pursuing its goal of a totally market-led development, the Government should have accepted the need to play a leading role, and used its investment upfront to leverage clear public benefits including affordable housing, more social mix and better design.

Schwartz acknowledges that, so far, Docklands lacks soul. "It's in the fine grain that Docklands really has its challenges." He is in no doubt that now that the big corporates have paved the way at Docklands, the funk will follow and empty offices and shops will fill with interesting tenants. Yet the median apartment price is $610,000. The average price for an apartment at Lend Lease's Dock 5 tower now being built is $1 million, or nearly three times the median price of a typical house in Melbourne.

Where the 1992 Docklands Strategy proposed a levy on developers to provide funds for a component of public or social housing - a common model in the US and Europe - the Kennett government rejected the idea.

RMIT University housing specialist professor Tony Dalton helped develop the 1992 strategy. "You've got to have buckets of money to live there, and that's a tragedy. It should have been a suburb where a whole load of people can live and work."

Victoria Harbour developer Lend Lease says it wants to be able to house at least some Docklands workers - chefs and waiters for instance - through a "key worker" affordable housing scheme. Project director Maurice Coccia says he wants to ensure that Victoria Harbour is not "an enclave for the rich". International property group ING (Waterfront City) wants to do the same. But both schemes are dependent on subsidy from a wary Bracks Government and negotiations have dragged on for three years.

Major Projects Minister John Lenders says he has told VicUrban to come up with ways of improving affordability at Docklands, but he is non-committal about how that might happen. Mary Crooks, who also worked on Labor's Dockland strategy, says the original vision was that Docklands was for all Victorians. "Now people are going down there more out of fascination than a feeling that, "This is part of our territory".

"It's almost like an intra-Melbourne tourist attraction."

Crooks argues that the lack of affordability, prevents the social and cultural diversity that is evident elsewhere in Melbourne. The first survey of Docklands residents, commissioned by VicUrban and the Melbourne City Council last year, found that the average Docklander was wealthy, young, professional and childless, from an Anglo or Asian background. It was found that the diverse nationalities of wider Melbourne, and especially southern Europeans, were not well represented.

However, Mark Birrell stresses that Docklands allows a style of city living that encourages people to leave their cars at home and make better use of public infrastructure. He says the Docklands vision was an alternative to suburbia and recognition of the trend towards single-person households. Importantly, he says, it provides secure housing in a supportive community for women living alone. "The Docklands option was to create a places that was extremely well structured to cater for that age group that found itself alone."

Given the limitation in both the design and social dimensions of the project, can Docklands be improved in the two-thirds of the project still to be built?

Lend Lease's Maurice Coccia acknowledges the shortcomings of Docklands, but insists that Victoria Harbour is learning lessons from the precinct's explorers. He says Lend Lease wants to build a local community, with a mixture of housing types, less emphasis on high-rise, a genuine strip shopping centre and even some affordable housing for "key workers".

But some commentators fear that with contracts already in place for most of Docklands, talk of diversity is overoptimistic and again an example of hype and spin. They say developers will be reluctant to re-enter negotiations or alter their plans, especially if it means providing more public benefits for less profit.

Kim Dovey says concern about social mix at Docklands disappeared after 1993 "only to reappear after the millenium when when it was too late". He says the Bracks "rhetoric" about housing affordability, "rose to the top of the agenda just after the final development contracts were were "being sealed without any such provisions".

State Architect John Denton hopes there is still room for negotiation with developers and supports a wide-ranging examination, involving all players, of Docklands thus far and its future. He wants to look at how to get better design and include some social housing.

"I think it perfectly reasonable that after a period of actual development you look at all of it and say: 'Have we done it right?" Denton asks. "What are the things that worked? Are there things we could have done better?"

As Rob Maclellan points out, these questions were neither asked nor answered in Waterfront Spectacular.

"Of course it's not unusual for government and semi-government organisations to write their own histories," says the former minister. "The worst possible thing is that someone else writes their histories for them."

With CAMERON HOUSTON AND BEN SCHNEIDER

Docklands: second-rate or showpiece? (http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/secondrate-or-showpiece/2006/06/16/1149964741239.html)

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/06/16/JTDOCKLANDS_wideweb__470x335,0.jpg
A diamond in the rough: the Docklands development sprang up in the shadow of Melbourne's industrial zone.
Photo: Craig Abraham

The Age (www.theage.com.au)
Royce Millar, City Editor
17 June 2006

Melbourne's attempt to create a spectacular waterfront oasis has divided the city's leading architects and urban planners.

Docklands, say its critics, is mediocre, and lacks soul and a cultural focus. Some say it is a missed opportunity that warrants starting again.

But people are moving into postcode 3008. About 6000 now call it home and another 6000 work there — and there are encouraging signs that a community is developing — albeit slowly. Ten years into a 30-year time frame, there is hope that Docklands can still fulfil the vision.

Kennett's one regret: Towers obscure city's water view

DOCKLANDS, the $10 billion makeover of Melbourne's derelict waterfront and the largest urban renewal project in Australian history, is a "badly-missed opportunity" and a second-rate urban outcome for Melbourne.

That is the stinging assessment by the man widely regarded as the high priest of design in Melbourne, RMIT University's professor of architecture, Leon van Schaik.

Almost a decade after work began on transforming the Victoria Dock area into a new inner-city postcode, debate rages over the results. With two-thirds of Docklands still to be built, the Bracks Government is under pressure to rethink the area's direction.

Professor van Schaik told The Age that the 200-hectare site had offered enormous potential to put Melbourne in the vanguard of urban renewal and design.

But, he said, the Kennett government's decision to carve up the area into seven parcels and sell them to large developers was a recipe for mediocrity.

"It means we have a whole series of very undistinguished outcomes," he said.

State architect John Denton said he was concerned about Docklands' piecemeal development and variable architecture.

Mr Denton, who is responsible for some of Melbourne's modern masterpieces (Melbourne Museum, the Melbourne Exhibition Centre and the Bolte Bridge) said he would have advised against allowing isolated precincts. "If you had all the developments down there now inside that central area (between Spencer Street and Central Pier), it would be humming. It would be bursting at the seams."

Former premier Jeff Kennett has defended Docklands, which he likened to a "rare species of plant that takes a while to bloom". "But it is now starting to bloom and it is capturing the minds and the hearts and the attention of the community in which it lives," he said.

But Mr Kennett has reservations, including the Victoria Point and Watergate apartment towers next to Telstra Dome. He said they obscured views of the city from the water and Bolte Bridge. He said he would have preferred that one developer had taken control of the entire 200 hectares — an option that was not commercially viable.

"Once you had a number of parties, you see a very stark difference in the quality and style of architecture."

The Age has spoken to politicians, planners, architects and developers, all of whom have divergent views about the Docklands.

Kennett planning minister Rob Maclellan conceded that allowing developers to build in isolated precincts was probably wrong.

Here's an example of bad design: Village Docklands. One isolated loner of a building next to a busy highway. What about the Marketplace that the sales people of Village Docklands so heavily marketed? What the freakin' hell is going on with it? Nothing!

There's no "Village" there. It's a half-assed vision by developers who live overseas!

So Docklands is finished...all the Village Dockland Towers are built...Cool

They built a 15 year project in 5 years.


LOL...of course the place is empty, lonely and wind swept...it is no where near finished. Another 15 years I would assume.

The whole thing is 1/3 done, if that. At the moment the most complete parts are at Waterfront City and Yarra's Edge.... which both still have a fair way to go yet!

I think it is unfair to judge it yet, for example, the central 'hub' they place as around Telstra Dome, well that really has only had NAB & Watergate finished for some time. All the residential & retail stuff which will really bring in the people is only just starting to come about (Vic Point just moving in, Dock 5 not complete, etc, etc...).

It is a massive project, largest urban renewal in Australia, and it will take I reckon another 10 years at least before enough development and people are in the place to make it really hum. My 2 cents anyways...

Stu

I agree. In 2015 that's when we can really judge its success. It is a white elephant at the moment but time will tell.

Here are some photos I took on 13/06:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3259/smelbournephotos0388tt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6725/smelbournephotos0336rz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8339/smelbournephotos0529il.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3020/smelbournephotos0423do.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5576/smelbournephotos0273gx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It needs some retail, a rason for people to go there, why go to the docklands when you can go to southbank or crown? Or anywhere elese for that matter, it needs things to draw people away some resteraunts and shops.

Leon's got a bit of a habit of talking out of his arse. It's all good and well to criticize and he's done alot for Architecture in the way he promotes it and everything but I'm yet to see him design something truly amazing or anything for that matter. He has all these opinions on everything but offers no solutions. His view is very short sighted as the project is nowhere near finished, he'll get his lowrises.

Agree - too early to judge.

However, I would like more classier design apartments to be built there... somethings in the league of YVE ....

I just wish the Victoria Harbour is built very soon - there are so many derelict warehouses around still which are eyesores at this stage...

I do agree with much of today's articles. I believe Docklands has been a waster opportunity. I don't think the high rise developments will date very well and in 20years time we will be screaming for their demolition. They're as ugly as the housing commission towers dotted around the city.

Anyone know when/if the central pier "icon" will be built? If we had some sort of museum of modern art/performing art centre type of venue, etc. I believe it could add to the areas appeal. Of course if it was jaw dropping and sitting on the waters edge it would be a huge draw card.
I don't exactly want to see another Geary or Utzon copy but something inspiring would be nice...

Nothing for that precinct is yet to be proposed.
I hope something decent will pop up there, something we can be proud of.
I think it would be a nice site for something like the Auckland Sky tower, however I doubt something so large could be built there.

We could always rebuild the concert hall there, with an even bigger spire there!

It's not too early to judge at all. We should expect nothing less than excellent from an urban renewall development and pish like Village Docklands and Waterfront City fall very short of the aforementioned category.

Again, this is Kennett's legacy overshadowing us, Victoria - we - (are) is so unique in how we went about applying neo-liberal market driven policies right across government, public intervention was completely shunned and looked down upon and the rhetoric about public debt has become so ingrained in Victoria's psyche that it's just a given now that it's "bad" to borrow to build the infrastructure we need to drive the markkets - see Brumby's lengthy explanation for going into more debt, it's utter bullshite.

So much so the incumbent government is too shitscared to do anything dramatically different from the previous government for fear of being margainalised and therefore we all lose because the Bracks government's "steering" policies are only that and they're failing us all because they're not backed up with public commitment (except when health and education services are involved - that they are doing right).

Strategic development is absolute bollocks and giving the excuse that it's too early to judge is equally as much bollocks IMO. We should be demanding the highest possible excellence in design (compare Federation Square to Eifel - that's far too much variance in quality for my liking), we should be demanding greater emphasis being placed on Melbourne's international profile (Bracks is all tra la la about being Victoria-inclusive, Kennett at least put the focus on Melbourne that it deserves), and we should likewise be demanding the best possible outcome with changing everything thats wrong with this city (actively implementing policies that discourage driving 50 plus km per day to go from your <1/4 acre block of grass and bricks to work and encouraging people to live closer to their work).

Why the fuck would you settle for anything less? I won't be.

[/rant] & £0.02

The Docklands
so far….

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Give this area time and more people and it will shine like a jewel, I like it already. :yes:
I have little time for pessimists with their negative rhetoric, they should be banished to Heard Island. :down:

It has to be the colder weather, I was down there on a Saturday night back in March, mild night, and people were about in the pubs/bars/restaurants and streets.

Whats all this crap about low income people not being able to live there?

Who says that poor people get to live in good areas?

Using the theory in that article about a cluster of high median income people, becoming a 'problem' in the future....how come we dont have a ghetto in Toorak???

Using the theory in that article about a cluster of high median income people, becoming a 'problem' in the future....how come we dont have a ghetto in Toorak???
No one is saying the area will become a ghetto - it'll just become isolated and won't really integrate well with the CBD if it remains an area solely for high income earners...and if that happens. it'll defeat the whole purpose of extending the CBD towards the waterfront.

I dont see a problem with high income earners wanting prime realestate, thats the benifit of having a high income. Plus many students rent in the area and they are not high income earners, its just another argument to be raised. In reality not really a problem I would think it is logical that if you want water view you pay for them...common sense really.

I think the point that is being stressed is that for an area or suburb to be successful in the sense that it is vibrant, has a soul and a makes people feel like they live or socialise in a real place it is important to have a broad section of people, including a broad cross-section of incomes. This is why the best suburbs in melbounre are fitzroy, st-kilda, richmond and sth yarra\prahran. it is because they feel like real places and not like tv sets or david jones advertisements.

i would suggest that the area behind the wheel and where they were going to put the hospital be developed into a compact area of low- medium cost housing and where the public spaces are developed so as to encourage community involvement and interaction- like some of plazas in barcelonas Eixample. Not everyone wants a waterview or designer fittings or 2 carparks or expansive homes, instead by creating some affordable accomodation they can encourage youth/artists/non-corporates and thus give the place some life and make it more interesting for everyone.

cant see this happening under either labor or liberal governments though. i dont think either understand what it is to facilitate urban successes.

btw. a friend of mine who works high up in ANZ told me that they are nearing their decision about the new HQ and told me that both bates smart and wood marsh are two of the firms behind the proposals. Would be good to see a woodmarsh campus as their buildings are some of the best in the country. id love to see what they could do with a big banks budget. Might give some of the archtectural critics of docklands something to chew too.

docklands will take time... wait.. right now i spend no time at all over there as there is nothing for me to do.... formula based establishments / designs / concepts never work. the place needs time and rawness and less fake plastic. it is only aimed at a very narrow demographic, and quite an un-colourful one as well. architecturally it already has some jewels but that is not good enough reason to bring people over to spend time there. try and name a cultural or a community based establishment at the docklands - there is none. it's the developers false maths that only calculates dry return that has started the place on the wrong foot.

apart from misguided tourists, at this stage only people that live or work there have docklands as a daily destination and that makes it no different than caroline springs to me. a place planned to be full of life and spirit from its conception has got as many chances to sucseed as an arranged marriage.

i choose to love docklands, and i'm sure in a few decades it is going to be a great, liveable, sociable, well established space. well done on getting a start anyway.
until then, there is melbourne's real, true, rich culture and history to be enjoyed.

Port 1010, Yarras Edge 5, Victoria Point, Conder, the new automotive TAFE building, Watergate, Dock 5... These are all mediocre buildings compared to what???

Some poeple just hate skyscrapers no matter how good the design (unless it is by Saint Seidler). Since when are the likes of ANZ or NAB going to want to set up shop in an area with grit???

Melbourne has enough suburbs with public housing and gentrified grit, do we really need yet another Fitzroy???

Or do we want all of the inner city to be a bohemian paradise while all the major companies move their headquarters to the suburbs of Sydney???

The big mistake was releasing the whole shebang in precincts to many developers at the same time and the development of Wurundjeri Way. These obvious errors were pointed out to the Kenett government time and time again but they ignored this advice (just like they ignored the warnings about on Royal Doimain Tower).

So Docklands will remain disjoinited for many years because of this and the fact that some developers have rushed and dumbed down plans just to get something built, get some return on their investment and to meet the contract terms that state they have to start construction on each stage of their precinct within a certain timeframe. The docklands apartment crash scare campaign also put the brakes on much of the development that would have filled in some of the gaps aroudn the area.

But this does not mean that the whole development will end up crap at the end of the day or that everything that has been built so far is crap.

there's some good architecture there, but WAY too much mediocrity. docklands is a major let-down. think of the potential and it could have been anything and everything, but now it's just a london docklands-style wasteland of wealth. it couldn't have been more un-integrated if they tried. wasted opportunity. how long are those buildings going to be there? at least 50 years, if not longer - what a damn shame. the docklands stadium is the worst possible tribute to mediocrity and built in the wrong spot. i doubt we'll ever see a major building on central pier either because the pier itself can't take a lot of weight and the nimbys will want to preserve the fugly sheds. and it's not just about what's being built - it's about the lack of life, integration, socio-economic depth, public amenity. where's the leadership, where's the vision? docklands gave us a virgin canvas - it was HOPE itself, but now it's just being sold off to the highest bidder for highest profit - that's called prostitution.

Pessemsitc views help no one...people are quick to critizise..but a city of Metro 3.7 Million can only have so many Fitzroy's and Sth Yarra's before it reaches a critical mass. What Melbourne didnt have was a nice waterfront district for those who can afford it.

For those who cannot, well thats not the problem of those who can. On that note though I know heaps of students that are actually living in the Dockland apartments and they are far from wealthy, they are creative and bohemic..so this so called lack of population diversity is not a reality besides the fact that there is no government housing in the area.

By going by the negativity though you can only imagine the outcry if government housing which is generally of basic quality was built at lets say Yarra's Edge...or New Quay.

Docklands is already vibrant on a hot summer night, and with time as the precincts connect, shops, resturants, bars and nightclubs spring up all over the precinct it will be just as Melbourne as anywhere else. Future generations will flock to the waterfront precinct to enjoy listening to great music alongside the waterfront, its location will garantee its success.

I lived in Docklands as a student. My two flatmates lived there as medium (on the lower end of medium) income earners and we had no problems whatsoever. I don't know what these annoying people are talking about! When I lived there it was still possible to get a 3 bedroom one carpark one bathroom brand new apartment half way up the pilladio with city and water views, a decent sized balcony and quality fixtures for around $450 a week. It's comprable to similar sized places in St Kilda or Southbank etc and notably cheaper than the same thing in Port Melbourne.

If you earn $40 - $50 a year it is still very possible to rent a place in the Docklands. I always thought it would be beyond my budget, but it wasn't - and the saving I made in transport, petrol, parking, water, gas etc was another side to the argument.

These people need to shut up till the place is finished. I loved living in the Docklands and I would consider moving back there again, it's only going to get better, isn't this what's important? People who live there like living there, people who visit enjoy it and come back and peopel who work there are happy. What's their studip problem?

MG2

Rome wasn't built in a day either.

Docklands will take years to complete.going by Darling harbour. It started in 1984 and supposed to be completed in 1988 but is still going in 2006.no where near as big as Docklands ,its architecture has spanned 2 decades and it shows. They are now going to demolish the massive Sega World because it never worked and replacing with retail and highrise units.Since Docklands is massive and only currently 30% completed?, it will take atleast 20 years to finish. I have no problem with what ive seen thus far. seems to be working well. nice unit blocks. no eyesores yet.the waterfront is good also. will sloooowly come to life. give it another 5 years.

I don't know what these annoying people are talking about!

These people need to shut up till the place is finished. I loved living in the Docklands and I would consider moving back there again, it's only going to get better, isn't this what's important? People who live there like living there, people who visit enjoy it and come back and peopel who work there are happy. What's their studip problem?

MG2

Here here!

I've stayed many a night in Docklands at my mates place and there's nothing wrong with at all. It's actually quite nice to see it spring up from nothing into a multipurpose waterfront that offers yet more options for business, residents and tourists in Melbourne. It's also funny seeing NewQuay turning into a Melbourne version Cockle Bay, who would have thought?

Yes it still has a long way to go, but the area is huge, still very new and shows lots of promise and who knows what proposals will get up in the next 20 years.

I think one day Melbourne will embrace its waterfront as it did with Southgate in the 90's and then watch out.

If you earn $40 - $50 a year it is still very possible to rent a place in the Docklands.$40-$50 a year - the new IR laws are really kicking in :)

^ :lol:

there's some good architecture there, but WAY too much mediocrity. docklands is a major let-down. think of the potential and it could have been anything and everything, but now it's just a london docklands-style wasteland of wealth. it couldn't have been more un-integrated if they tried. wasted opportunity. how long are those buildings going to be there? at least 50 years, if not longer - what a damn shame. the docklands stadium is the worst possible tribute to mediocrity and built in the wrong spot. i doubt we'll ever see a major building on central pier either because the pier itself can't take a lot of weight and the nimbys will want to preserve the fugly sheds. and it's not just about what's being built - it's about the lack of life, integration, socio-economic depth, public amenity. where's the leadership, where's the vision? docklands gave us a virgin canvas - it was HOPE itself, but now it's just being sold off to the highest bidder for highest profit - that's called prostitution.

And neo-liberalism gone wrong. Docklands is proving that very little intervention by a public entity mandated to oversee development** and letting the private sector drive development doesn't usually result in the best possible outcome. The thing that irks me still stands: there's nothing really to say that something is shit and go back to the drawing board. We have a state architect now, what the hell is he/she doing all day? I think anything in Central Melbourne should come under his/her scrutiny and NOT the politicians scrutiny.

** I'm not advocating political intervention, more a body of people in the industry just with a public mandate.

$40-$50 a year - the new IR laws are really kicking in :)

Careful mugs, Big Brother is watching...........

28th june, be there or be square........

docklands will take time... wait.. right now i spend no time at all over there as there is nothing for me to do.... formula based establishments / designs / concepts never work. the place needs time and rawness and less fake plastic. it is only aimed at a very narrow demographic, and quite an un-colourful one as well. architecturally it already has some jewels but that is not good enough reason to bring people over to spend time there. try and name a cultural or a community based establishment at the docklands - there is none. it's the developers false maths that only calculates dry return that has started the place on the wrong foot.

apart from misguided tourists, at this stage only people that live or work there have docklands as a daily destination and that makes it no different than caroline springs to me. a place planned to be full of life and spirit from its conception has got as many chances to sucseed as an arranged marriage.

i choose to love docklands, and i'm sure in a few decades it is going to be a great, liveable, sociable, well established space. well done on getting a start anyway.
until then, there is melbourne's real, true, rich culture and history to be enjoyed.
Hey velco, agree with most of what you say but the bit about 'only people who work or live there or misguided tourists go there,' I would have to say is wrong. Take me for example, I love walking around there to look at buildings, venture through the park and admire the views of the water and the CBD and with my wife and friends, we often go there for the restaurants (at least once a month). :eat:

I think the point that is being stressed is that for an area or suburb to be successful in the sense that it is vibrant, has a soul and a makes people feel like they live or socialise in a real place it is important to have a broad section of people, including a broad cross-section of incomes. This is why the best suburbs in melbounre are fitzroy, st-kilda, richmond and sth yarra\prahran. it is because they feel like real places and not like tv sets or david jones advertisements.



The plebs can stay in Pleb-ville. I will just go there to drink coffee and point at the freaks.

Since when is Fitzroy one of the best suburbs in Melbourne?

youre trippin' dude.

Since when is Fitzroy one of the best suburbs in Melbourne?Since at least the 80s. Probably longer.

this is probably a little off topic but still slightly relevant to the docklands but anyway,

Australia looks like making a bid for the 2018 FIFA world cup, if successful docklands should be 100% completed, which is perfect timing. Say if we did win rights to host the tournament, where would the finals be played at? Melb or Syd?

I think the opening should be in Sydney, and the Grand Final (with the home nation winning) at the MCG.

The plebs can stay in Pleb-ville. I will just go there to drink coffee and point at the freaks.

Since when is Fitzroy one of the best suburbs in Melbourne?

youre trippin' dude.


Having lived in New York, London, Sydney and Melbourne and understanding that the creative energy emerges from the east village, east end, erskenville/darlinghurst and fitzroy/st.kilda in each respective city i think that is a pretty good indication of it being one the best suburbs in melbourne. All of the above areas are characterised by the diversity of their inhabitants and it is always the try-hards that follow to "drink coffee and point at the freaks" (read: yuppies) that drive the rents up and make the places sterile. In docklands we seem to getting a ready made sterilised suburb. I know its not finished yet but IF it continues on its current trajectory then we're looking at yuppy-ville writ large. No history, No 'freaks', no soul and nothing that isnt based on cash. Maybe its a blessing that it will be a place to house these money-obsessed tossers and keep them from pushing rents up elsewhere but it would be nice for everyone (including the yuppies) to have a few reminders here and there that it aint all about the dollar. If anyone has been to beverly hills they will understand how crapola things can turn out. Give me the slums of the east village NY anyday.

this is probably a little off topic but still slightly relevant to the docklands but anyway,

Australia looks like making a bid for the 2018 FIFA world cup, if successful docklands should be 100% completed, which is perfect timing. Say if we did win rights to host the tournament, where would the finals be played at? Melb or Syd?
100% completed? lol,, its nearly 2007 and there are many sections to develope.i can honestly say it will be much longer, ive heard atleast 2030??
but by 2018 there will be a few more projects finished which will make the whole precinct feel more completed. this type of redevelopment takes years to build.should look impressive when all done.

What's so wrong with having a part of the CBD (which is what it will become eventually) that is expensive to live in because of the land values there? So the rich will live there - so what! All the cities you mentioned above also have certain areas that are exclusively for the rich - N.Y., London and sydney - it's not peculiar to LA! Regents Park in London is somewhere where only the likes of Madonna can afford to live, but I can tell you I've been there many times because the area's beautiful. There's a certain attraction to glamourous areas even if you can't afford to live there and the biggest complaint with Docklands is that it's not attracting people in general. Rich, really, given that it's not even a third finished. It's a work-in-progress - why does every development have to be an immediate overnight success? Commentators like Van Schaik get on my tits because he observes and complains about other people's vision and hard work without hardly ever realising (and thus contributing) any of his own. It's no coincidence that the only building mentioned in his book as being of any worth in Docklands is Watergate because I'm sure he has connections with Elenburg Fraser. It's all incestous bullshit and not objective criticism. I personally think that Watergate is the worst mistake Docklands has made so far.....it's hideous! But my comment has about as much worth as any comment based on personal opinion only.
Stop the bitching about Docklands. I'd rather complain about what's going on down there than about the fact that nothing's going on at all. And I'm not someone that's easily pleased, in particular. But let's face it, even if it's finished totally full of high-end exclusive apartment towers and super yachts, who's to say that ordinary citizens (and tourists) won't want to go down there for the glamourous atmosphere, the top restaurants, the five star hotels and the designer bars? What they are doing is creating open public space for everyone around the residentials that will lend itself to attracting visitors. None of these developements are gated communities (like London Docklands...which is a disaster).
Why does everywhere have to be grunge city just to be worthy of a visit? I, for one, LOVED Miami's South Beach....and Melbourne could do with a little bit of that. The rich have to live somewhere - let them live at Docklands.
It's far too early to say, so the usual whingers should either get involved and do what needs to be done to make it work (in their eyes), or keep their bitter and jealous views to themselves.
As an urban redevelopment goes I've seen alot around the world and it's shaping up to be one of the best....
Just on another note, I don't particularly think that developing different areas at the same time is such a bad thing, it just means that the whole massive area will gain a more 'complete' look earlier than if they'd concentrated on one area and worked outwards. Sure it looks patchy now, but God....give it time, guys! It WILL take until 2030...look at Southbank, which is only now just starting to look complete and integrated. Anyone who sticks by the 15 year time-frame is just kidding themselves. The area is massive!!
Sorry for the lengthy rant but I've been saving it up.

I personally think that Watergate is the worst mistake Docklands has made so far.....it's hideous!And we all sit back and wait for lozza's response :)

Nice rant there Garmatt!

^^Ditto Garmatt, only difference being I don't mind Watergate, just hate the leftover sheds (not worthy of preservation in my opinion).

Commentators like Van Schaik get on my tits because he observes and complains about other people's vision and hard work without hardly ever realising (and thus contributing) any of his own. It's no coincidence that the only building mentioned in his book as being of any worth in Docklands is Watergate because I'm sure he has connections with Elenburg Fraser. It's all incestous bullshit and not objective criticism.

It really grinds my gears when people do that. I was disappointed that Tower V and Conder weren't mentioned in the book (he does make mention of the New Quay towers not being FKA brilliance due to the constraints of the developer). In my mind V and Conder are the best resi towers there with the former winning an award at the Venice biennale a couple of years ago.

Having lived in New York, London, Sydney and Melbourne and understanding that the creative energy emerges from the east village, east end, erskenville/darlinghurst and fitzroy/st.kilda in each respective city i think that is a pretty good indication of it being one the best suburbs in melbourne. All of the above areas are characterised by the diversity of their inhabitants and it is always the try-hards that follow to "drink coffee and point at the freaks" (read: yuppies) that drive the rents up and make the places sterile. In docklands we seem to getting a ready made sterilised suburb. I know its not finished yet but IF it continues on its current trajectory then we're looking at yuppy-ville writ large. No history, No 'freaks', no soul and nothing that isnt based on cash. Maybe its a blessing that it will be a place to house these money-obsessed tossers and keep them from pushing rents up elsewhere but it would be nice for everyone (including the yuppies) to have a few reminders here and there that it aint all about the dollar. If anyone has been to beverly hills they will understand how crapola things can turn out. Give me the slums of the east village NY anyday.
Hear hear! Imagine, even our world class graffitists and stencil artists can't be arsed getting public transport to work there, and probably can't afford the parking! That says a lot - here's a border where urban life stops. It's like a filtered view of how Melbourne should look - only patronised by a certain type of inhabitant (let's leave the visitors out of this) that has a certain vision of urban life. Let me get to this in my next post.

Hey velco, agree with most of what you say but the bit about 'only people who work or live there or misguided tourists go there,' I would have to say is wrong. Take me for example, I love walking around there to look at buildings, venture through the park and admire the views of the water and the CBD and with my wife and friends, we often go there for the restaurants (at least once a month). :eat:
^^ here's one such example. Having met the Collector personally, I can say that what struck me was how different his lifestyle choices were from mine, which is of course perfectly fine. But his is the urban apartment dweller's vision of Docklands, not mine. The Collector actually seemed surprised that I preferred a landed suburban existence. Why is it so hard to appreciate that (IMHO) the architectural, design and cultural depth of a suburban existence can be so much richer than that of the urban (read CBD fringe) apartment dweller? NOt trying to judge anybody, but it simply illustrates the failings of Docklands - it primarily was built (and therefore attracts) a CBD fringe urban dweller/chaser type to its monochromatic cultural and built environment.

^ :lol:



And neo-liberalism gone wrong. Docklands is proving that very little intervention by a public entity mandated to oversee development** and letting the private sector drive development doesn't usually result in the best possible outcome. The thing that irks me still stands: there's nothing really to say that something is shit and go back to the drawing board. We have a state architect now, what the hell is he/she doing all day? I think anything in Central Melbourne should come under his/her scrutiny and NOT the politicians scrutiny.

** I'm not advocating political intervention, more a body of people in the industry just with a public mandate.
tays, were we separated at birth? :D

Docklands will take years to complete.going by Darling harbour. It started in 1984 and supposed to be completed in 1988 but is still going in 2006.no where near as big as Docklands ,its architecture has spanned 2 decades and it shows. They are now going to demolish the massive Sega World because it never worked and replacing with retail and highrise units.Since Docklands is massive and only currently 30% completed?, it will take atleast 20 years to finish. I have no problem with what ive seen thus far. seems to be working well. nice unit blocks. no eyesores yet.the waterfront is good also. will sloooowly come to life. give it another 5 years.
Hey Cul, we'd all love to see you down here sometime so that you can actually experience all that's been happening down in Melbourne for yourself! :D

And we all sit back and wait for lozza's response :)

Nice rant there Garmatt!

Yes, that is a big rant ! lol ! Funny you say that though. I recall the article in Saturday's Age on Dockland's last week saying that Watergate was one of the best pieces of architecture down there ! I think that was some professor that had that opinion actually ! ( so he must be right of course ) lol !

Lozza

^^ here's one such example. Having met the Collector personally, I can say that what struck me was how different his lifestyle choices were from mine, which is of course perfectly fine. But his is the urban apartment dweller's vision of Docklands, not mine. The Collector actually seemed surprised that I preferred a landed suburban existence. Why is it so hard to appreciate that (IMHO) the architectural, design and cultural depth of a suburban existence can be so much richer than that of the urban (read CBD fringe) apartment dweller? NOt trying to judge anybody, but it simply illustrates the failings of Docklands - it primarily was built (and therefore attracts) a CBD fringe urban dweller/chaser type to its monochromatic cultural and built environment.
Lol, each their own. :)

It really grinds my gears when people do that. I was disappointed that Tower V and Conder weren't mentioned in the book (he does make mention of the New Quay towers not being FKA brilliance due to the constraints of the developer). In my mind V and Conder are the best resi towers there with the former winning an award at the Venice biennale a couple of years ago.

He did mention Tower V in the Age article:

"He says the apartment tower by architect Wood Marsh at Yarra's Edge was designed as an "elegant" building but became "pregnant" when built, with "the client pumping in more and more apartments to get more and more return".

Since the only mjaor change made to Tower V between the inital design and construction was to cut off two levels and reduce the number of apartments this staement comes across as a little bitchy.

Exactly Grollo! My point exactly!
It's all based on - "all the people actually doing stuff down there are messing it all up!!..If I was involved, I'd do this and this and this"....etc. - it's like school yard stuff.
I implore people to ignore what these so called 'critics' crap on about and make up your own mind. I'm of the mind that it's colourful, innovative, experimental and good for the city. It's very exciting.
Oh, and the public artwork kicks arse!
If only London Docklands had made their developers commit a certain percentage of the develpoment costs to public art. At this rate, even if the area is a rich man's enclave, ordinary Joe will still go down there to check out the wierd and wonderful sculptures etc.
Keep up the good work!
Now...the new Convention Centre is another matter........

what would be nice in victoria harbour next would be some bars and pubs on the water. I went to auckland last month and they have done their wharves up and there are all these nightclubs and bars mixed with restaurants right next to the water, and it was really popular! New Quay is ok, but it needs more bars, not just restaurants.

cheers

Lozza

Having lived in New York, London, Sydney and Melbourne and understanding that the creative energy emerges from the east village, east end, erskenville/darlinghurst and fitzroy/st.kilda in each respective city i think that is a pretty good indication of it being one the best suburbs in melbourne. All of the above areas are characterised by the diversity of their inhabitants and it is always the try-hards that follow to "drink coffee and point at the freaks" (read: yuppies) that drive the rents up and make the places sterile. In docklands we seem to getting a ready made sterilised suburb. I know its not finished yet but IF it continues on its current trajectory then we're looking at yuppy-ville writ large. No history, No 'freaks', no soul and nothing that isnt based on cash. Maybe its a blessing that it will be a place to house these money-obsessed tossers and keep them from pushing rents up elsewhere but it would be nice for everyone (including the yuppies) to have a few reminders here and there that it aint all about the dollar. If anyone has been to beverly hills they will understand how crapola things can turn out. Give me the slums of the east village NY anyday.


y'all a bunch of card carrying, social engineering socialists.

What's so wrong with having a part of the CBD (which is what it will become eventually) that is expensive to live in because of the land values there? So the rich will live there - so what! All the cities you mentioned above also have certain areas that are exclusively for the rich - N.Y., London and sydney - it's not peculiar to LA! Regents Park in London is somewhere where only the likes of Madonna can afford to live, but I can tell you I've been there many times because the area's beautiful. There's a certain attraction to glamourous areas even if you can't afford to live there and the biggest complaint with Docklands is that it's not attracting people in general. Rich, really, given that it's not even a third finished. It's a work-in-progress - why does every development have to be an immediate overnight success? Commentators like Van Schaik get on my tits because he observes and complains about other people's vision and hard work without hardly ever realising (and thus contributing) any of his own. It's no coincidence that the only building mentioned in his book as being of any worth in Docklands is Watergate because I'm sure he has connections with Elenburg Fraser. It's all incestous bullshit and not objective criticism. I personally think that Watergate is the worst mistake Docklands has made so far.....it's hideous! But my comment has about as much worth as any comment based on personal opinion only.
Stop the bitching about Docklands. I'd rather complain about what's going on down there than about the fact that nothing's going on at all. And I'm not someone that's easily pleased, in particular. But let's face it, even if it's finished totally full of high-end exclusive apartment towers and super yachts, who's to say that ordinary citizens (and tourists) won't want to go down there for the glamourous atmosphere, the top restaurants, the five star hotels and the designer bars? What they are doing is creating open public space for everyone around the residentials that will lend itself to attracting visitors. None of these developements are gated communities (like London Docklands...which is a disaster).
Why does everywhere have to be grunge city just to be worthy of a visit? I, for one, LOVED Miami's South Beach....and Melbourne could do with a little bit of that. The rich have to live somewhere - let them live at Docklands.
It's far too early to say, so the usual whingers should either get involved and do what needs to be done to make it work (in their eyes), or keep their bitter and jealous views to themselves.
As an urban redevelopment goes I've seen alot around the world and it's shaping up to be one of the best....
Just on another note, I don't particularly think that developing different areas at the same time is such a bad thing, it just means that the whole massive area will gain a more 'complete' look earlier than if they'd concentrated on one area and worked outwards. Sure it looks patchy now, but God....give it time, guys! It WILL take until 2030...look at Southbank, which is only now just starting to look complete and integrated. Anyone who sticks by the 15 year time-frame is just kidding themselves. The area is massive!!
Sorry for the lengthy rant but I've been saving it up.


Listen to this bloke. ^^^ He knows what he is talking about :D

^^^ lol.Docklands is very bare and not so bustling now (except when footy matches are on at the dome) but i wish i could see what itll look like in 30 yrs.

:sleepy: