Photos of old Athens [Archive]

LEAFS FANATIC

January 18th, 2006, 05:49 PM

Hello my friends!

When I first saw these pics, I was blown away! I had to share them with you! By no means am I taking credit for them. All pics have been taken from Matt Barrett's web-site which is one of the best on-line guides for Greece out there. He is an American who lived in Greece while he was young and loves it as if it were his own homeland. He travels there (and lives when he can) very often. Here is the link to his website:

http://www.greecetravel.com/why-greece.htm

The pics you see below have been taken from this portion of his website:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/index.htm

Athens in the 1960's (and probably in the 1950's) was when the "boom" of the white apartments began. The population growth was enormous and the city spread rapidly. Unfortunatley, some classical buildings were destroyed and planning was often poor. However, these pics offer a glimpse of what life was in Athens back then and how the city has changed/improved today. I hope you enjoy them! :cheers:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/003.jpg

Note in this picture how the "new" white polikatikies (apartments) are being erected right in the middle of the older, more classical, buildings of Athens.

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens002.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens012.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens014.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens018.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens019.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens020.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens024b.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens037b.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens038.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens039b.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens041.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens044.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens047b.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens061.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens065.jpg

King Pauls' Funeral passing by the American Embassy:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/KingPaulFuneral010.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/KingPaulFuneral021.jpg

The Hilton from Lycavettos. Mihalakupoulou Street is still the river Ellissia and Vassileos Alexandrou Street is a dirt path. The big green space is Singrou Park, much of which is now Panapistimopoulis. INCREDIBLE!!! Look at the differences with today!!!

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/lycavettus004.jpg

Easter Sunday at Agios Thomas:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/mikras-asias017.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens2/PhotoAlbum1/008.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens2/PhotoAlbum1/athens066.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens2/PhotoAlbum1/lycavettus008.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens2/PhotoAlbum1/Seventies006.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens-historical/PhotoAlbum1/athens034.jpg

Notice the streets in front of the Herod Atticus Theatre. Today, the entire region is a pedestrian-only zone:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens-historical/PhotoAlbum1/historical-athens036.jpg

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens-historical/PhotoAlbum1/historical-athens037.jpg

Note the wooden train travelling on the Kifissias - Piraeus line:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens-historical/PhotoAlbum1/historical-athens046.jpg

Less cluter around the Acropolis:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens-historical/PhotoAlbum1/Historical-Athens062.jpg

Kuvvaci

January 18th, 2006, 06:05 PM

more empty but not so different. It became larger and crowded. Interesting.

LEAFS FANATIC

January 18th, 2006, 06:12 PM

more empty but not so different. It became larger and crowded. Interesting.

Well, yes, but most of these pictures are of the immediate area around the Acropolis, Omonia Square, and Syntagma. Areas surrounding the city that are full today such as Kifissia, Halandri, Iraklio, and the coastal suburbs were much less densely populated. But yes, I agree, these pics are interesting.

Ozcan

January 18th, 2006, 07:42 PM

^I guess most people are not really familiar with the areas surrounding the city as you mentioned - Kifissia, Halandri, Iraklio and the coastal suburbs.

Interesting pictures, thanks. They are quite sharp too..

Gordion

January 18th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Very nice pictures, lots of American cars on the roads.

Vasya Pupkin

January 18th, 2006, 08:33 PM

Nice. It's changed a lot but at the same time it hasn't.

arTmisa

January 18th, 2006, 08:55 PM

Thanks! everytime I'm more surprised with the pics and documents I find in this forum...I loved seeing these pics :colgate:

Leafs...great job!

gm2263

January 18th, 2006, 10:15 PM

Leafs , cannot say how much I thank you for this collection. It almost brought tears in my eyes as I lived as a small child through what is seen here. Every picture would take at least a paragraph to explain.

I mean, looking from Lycabettus hill to the Ampeliokipi distict without the highrises? Looking at the old buses replaced in the end of the 1970's.

It is strange to see that in many cases it was only the blu colour of the skies that is still intact... And I bet that this city looked... new with all these newly built buildings...

Nasai kala, apisteytes photos...

Christos7

January 18th, 2006, 10:46 PM

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens002.jpg

Makes you want to cry.....

Christos7

January 18th, 2006, 10:49 PM

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/athens021.jpg

Sheep hearding in Ambelokipi. :lol:

LEAFS FANATIC

January 19th, 2006, 12:53 AM

krainer

January 19th, 2006, 02:24 AM

katapliktikes oi photos alla sorry pou tha to pw, egw ws pio neos (21) diapistwnw meta lypis oti i moni proodos pou exoume kanei ws poli apo tote einai na synexisoume sto rythmo tis aspris polykatoikias kai na kanoume olo to lekanopedio ena akalaisthito 1960. Den pistevw sta matia mou, an den itan ta palia amaxia tha evaza to xeri mou sti fwtia oti polles photos einai 2006 (eida ki alles polles sto sxetiko site). Mono ta provata leipoun!:lol:

Kuvvaci

January 19th, 2006, 02:38 AM

I saved all photos..

What are the years of the each photos?

LEAFS FANATIC

January 19th, 2006, 02:51 AM

I saved all photos..

What are the years of the each photos?

Kuvvaci, all pictures are from 1963-1964.

Kuvvaci

January 19th, 2006, 03:13 AM

I had no idea that GM is so old

dewrob

January 19th, 2006, 03:53 AM

Perhaps you guys can make a Then/Now thread with these pictures and some new ones so the people who are less familiar with Athens see the changes in the city....

great pictures anyways

Giorgio

January 19th, 2006, 04:20 AM

Wow its amazing.
Now Athens from the air is just one giant overdeveloped white city.

Alboboy11

January 19th, 2006, 04:28 AM

that was hot, i actually liked it more...made the acropolis and ancient places stand out more

Poliochni

January 19th, 2006, 05:14 AM

Wow Leafs ! Apisteyto thread kai apisteytes photos !

H photo tou paidiou sto limani einai TOSO APOLYTA retro, toso atmosfairiki .... (mi me geloun ta matia mou ? Bre les na'nai to ploio pou fainetai to ...DHMHTROULA ???? :jk: )

Opos eipe kai o GM, einai polu syginitikes. Oloi mas exoume photos apo tous goneis mas kai tous eaytous mas apo tous xalepous ekeinous kairoys. Ta rouxa, oi anthropoi, de xero, they bring a smile san na blepeis elliniki tainia (me to thyroro tis polukatoikias etc).

Raleigh-NC

January 19th, 2006, 03:53 PM

What can I say? Absolutely fantastic photos from an era we'll never see again. My mother is currently visiting us and she brought many Greek movies from the 50's and 60's. Those DVDs are offered along with newspapers and magazines, but let me tell you: They show a completely different Athens... More livable, more attractive, more comfortable. This is not to say that today's Athens looks bad, but the 60's wasn't a bad era. These photos can certainly prove that.

LEAFS FANATIC

January 19th, 2006, 04:12 PM

gm2263

January 19th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Compare with my recent pics (2005): ...

From Lycabettus Hill

looking towards Ampelokipi where now the Athens Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110579) dominates the skyline:

Then:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens2/PhotoAlbum1/lycavettus008.jpg

Now:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429109/0/Athens+-+View+From+Lycabettus+-+May+2005-small800xb.jpg

Looking from Lycabettus towards the Hilton Hotel and the Evangelismos Jospital. The picture is so old that the Caravel Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110576) (1973) hasn't been built yet, I make it around 1966-1967 :eek:

Then:

http://greecetravel.com/photos/sixties/athens1/PhotoAlbum1/lycavettus004.jpg

Now:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/487967

tzinos

January 19th, 2006, 10:55 PM

Paidia ti na pw....egw melagxolisa kapws vlepontas fotos pou den eixa ksanadei pote. Im saying I got melancholic when I saw them. What happened to athens in the 60s and afterwards is a crime, and now we are just trying to make Athens look better but we can not make it the way it was....Just look the Hilton foto...A woodland in Athens. Much of it is apartment blocks now....Urban development they said...My ar@#@ urban development...Its sooo sad to see how it was and how it is...

If you can take it check this out...A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....
Fotos of Athens from the past (from stadia.gr) (http://www.stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479)

LEAFS FANATIC

January 19th, 2006, 11:12 PM

tzinos

January 20th, 2006, 12:35 AM

As you can see, those of you that know, athens limits to the north are around Patisia!! I remember a friend of mine, whose grandparents emmigrated to Las Vegas in the 50s, telling me that when his mom (their doughter) oved back to greece in late 70s and bought a house at Galatsi in the 80s, the grandmother had TERRIBLE OBJECTIONS as "the area is packed with wolves and noone goes there.." She litterally had to come and see with her own eyes that Galatsi is now -almost- city centre!!!
The development is huuuuuge, nevertheless it was unplanned. Therefore several LANDMARKS like the Aktaion Hotel in Faliro, or the "Roloi" in Pireus, among others, were demolished

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rizos/postcards/athens/panorama.jpg

GrigorisSokratis

January 20th, 2006, 06:27 AM

My whole ancestors are from Athens, so I have plenty of pictures of early 20th century, the 30's the 40's etc.

Just give me some time in order to digitalize them since currently I'm full of work, but as soon as I get a while I'll post'em.

LEAFS FANATIC

January 20th, 2006, 03:34 PM

chicagogeorge

January 20th, 2006, 08:43 PM

Those photos make Athens seems more peaceful. More like a big town than a city. Thanks leafs, as usual, great job on the photo find!

Christos7

February 23rd, 2006, 03:18 AM

Allow me to add some more photos:

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/panorama.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/panorama2.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/aeolisstreet.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/aeolisstreet2.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/ermoustreet.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/athinasstreet.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/athinasstreet2.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/grandebretagne.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/panorama2.jpg

(Syntagma)

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/syntagma.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/syntagma2.jpg

(Omonia)

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/omonia.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/omonia2.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/phileninon.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/stadioustreet.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/kifissia.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/university.jpg

christos

February 23rd, 2006, 03:57 AM

Great job christos7!

Zaxon

February 23rd, 2006, 07:20 AM

Πολύ καλές φωτογραφίες!
Πάντως δεν πρέπει να κρίνουμε τις αλλαγές με τα κριτήρια του σήμερα. Πριν απο 40 χρόνια τα τσιμεντένια κουτιά, αντιπροσώπευαν την πρόοδο και το μοντέρνο, ενώ μην ξεχνάμε οτι υπήρχε και πραγματική ανάγκη για στέγη.
Πάντως είναι κρίμα να μην έχει μείνει σχεδόν τίποτα απο αυτή την Αθήνα.

Στο μέλλον πάντως πιστεύω οτι είναι δυνατή ( δυνητικά ) η βελτίωση της εικόνας της Αθήνας. Εκτός απο το πολύ σημαντικό ζήτημα της νοοτροπίας και της παιδείας, το πρώτο που πρέπει να λυθεί και να αναδομηθεί είναι το θεσμικό πλαίσιο.
Ένα πρώτο βήμα προς τη βελτίωση της εικόνας της Αθήνας. έστω και μικρό, είναι η ψηφιακή τηλεόραση που έρχεται σε λίγα χρόνια και στην Ελλάδα. Για όσους δεν ξέρουν όλα τα άναλογικά τηλεοπτικά δίκτυα θα είναι υποχρεωμένα απο την Ευρωπαϊκή νομοθεσία να εκπέμπουν μόνο με ψηφιακή τεχνολογία, αρα όλο αυτό το δάσος κεραιών θα είναι πια άχρηστο και θα εξαφανιστεί.

Giorgio

February 23rd, 2006, 07:20 AM

Looks beautiful. What happened toall these buildings?

Giorgio

April 14th, 2006, 05:40 PM

AMAZING ATHENS!

Found these and HAD to post them!
Then
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Acropolis_1a.jpg

Now
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Acropolis_1b.jpg

Then
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Acropolis_Propylaea_2a.jpg

Now
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Acropolis_Propylaea_2b.jpg

Then
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Theatre_of_Dionysus_1a.jpg

Now
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Theatre_of_Dionysus_1b.jpg

then
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Parthenon_1a.jpg

now
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/images/Athens_Parthenon_1b.jpg

AMAZING!

Christos7

April 14th, 2006, 07:57 PM

wow that is freaky, because just last night I found those pictures myself....

but anyway, the "now" isn't really accurate because alot of restorations has been done.

Cerises

April 14th, 2006, 09:09 PM

the "now" is still breathtaking though! :)

NMBS1

April 14th, 2006, 11:56 PM

Those "now" pictures were taken in the 70s or 80s, the restoration work means that they now looks a little different.

Giorgio

April 15th, 2006, 04:27 AM

One thing I noticed is that it looks alot whiter or cleaner now days (maybe because of decline in pollution and restoration for the Olympics).

Christos7

April 15th, 2006, 05:00 AM

Actually Giorgo, there is a big restoration project going on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/12/AR2006041202463.html

For example:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/04/12/PH2006041202468.jpg

A replica of an ancient column capital is seen on top of two ancient drums and a modern replica at the Acropolis in Athens, Wednesday, April 12, 2006. The 2.2-ton marble piece is an exact copy of a 5th century BC Ionic capital and took over two years to carve by hand, using ancient techniques. It will form part of the Propylaea monumental gate, which is undergoing extensive restoration and scheduled for completion by 2007. (AP Photo/Petros Giannakouris)

All by hand, just as it was constructed thousands of years ago. :eek:

Some more examples, you can see the white marble (new) and the old (faded):

http://www.athensguide.com/acropolis/026acropolis.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/acropolis/027acropolis.jpg

http://www.athensguide.com/acropolis/030acropolis.jpg

Giorgio

April 15th, 2006, 06:05 AM

Very nice.
Im sure they also cleaned the old marble as well since it looks much more white than in the 90's and 80's.

gm2263

April 15th, 2006, 09:18 AM

Parts of this material with due acknowledgement of the sourecs will be tr5ansferred to the AThens Acropolis thread!!!

crazyeight

April 16th, 2006, 12:29 PM

Beautiful pics! I love Athens!

Giorgio

April 16th, 2006, 12:57 PM

Your welcome to visit!

Giorgio

June 2nd, 2006, 06:48 PM

Found some cool shots of Athens 30 years ago thought u guys might like to see:

http://image22.webshots.com/23/5/29/8/236252908ROWOSW_ph.jpg

http://image20.webshots.com/20/5/8/3/236250803KHrbvQ_ph.jpg

http://image34.webshots.com/34/5/25/19/236252519rmFmYg_ph.jpg

http://image30.webshots.com/31/5/20/5/236252005DVgaoL_ph.jpg

http://image22.webshots.com/22/5/40/13/236254013bVqypV_ph.jpg

http://image30.webshots.com/31/5/34/49/236253449aeonMn_ph.jpg

http://image34.webshots.com/35/5/14/66/236251466DZbFjO_ph.jpg

http://image22.webshots.com/22/5/52/9/236255209lHpvne_ph.jpg

http://image30.webshots.com/30/5/46/57/236254657alDYYe_ph.jpg

Enjoy the contributions :cheers:

Onur

June 4th, 2006, 09:27 PM

:redx:

DrasQue

June 4th, 2006, 09:43 PM

Giorgos we see nothing ;)

Kuvvaci

June 5th, 2006, 12:53 AM

I can see all of them..It's important your pc to dopics... Wonderful photos... Atleast emotional and dramatic

Istanbullu

June 5th, 2006, 01:02 AM

I can't see it!

Kuvvaci you can't see what we see and can see what we can't see! :laugh:

Kuvvaci

June 5th, 2006, 01:05 AM

look click on the picture, take its ades and put your borwser and see the pic and and come back to forum and you will see everything...

DrasQue

June 5th, 2006, 04:48 PM

Wow ! Wonderful photos
Thanks Giorgos !

neorion

June 5th, 2006, 06:55 PM

Nice giorgos. We can do a 'before' and 'after'.

1978

http://image30.webshots.com/30/5/46/57/236254657alDYYe_ph.jpg

2006

http://www.athensguide.com/acropolis/033acropolis.jpg

Zorba

June 5th, 2006, 10:22 PM

^^
Much less polution now.

gm2263

June 6th, 2006, 09:23 AM

Some of MY pictures from 1978. Back at the time I was at the 10th Grade (First class of Lyceum for the Greeks - Πρωτη Λυκείου )

1. Going up from downtown in Vassilissis Sophias Avenue, looking at the Athens Tower. At the time it was only seven years old... Also watch the old buses that have been replaced in the early 1980's. Things to remember.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/1978AthensTower.jpg

2. Athens skyline in 1978 as seen from a block of flats in Papagos, where I live. Here are all the towers that exist now, plus the 18-storey tall Red Cross Hospital (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=168185) that was topped out in the 1960's, was never completed due to an alleged engineering mistake and was demolished in 1996 to give way for the Politia Business Center (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=170304) and the new Red Cross Hospital (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=170302).

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/1978AthensSkyline.jpg

3. The Twin Towers in Messogeion Avenue (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=103328) in 1977. Also, the Teachers Residential Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=164626) is visible, built to accomodate secondary education teachers, is also visible to the right, forming one of the few tower blocks of Athens. Picture taken with a black and white film, when we went with the family to eat at a tavern in the neighbourhood. The Avenue looks empty in this clouded winter morning... Imagine that the right tower of the twins was under construction and that I was the one back then who was taking account of what was happening... No Internet at that time when history was in the making, like in few other cities in Europe, but with nobody taking any account about this, since these buildings were constructed with building permits taken during the military Junda period and the city planners probably would had torn them down if they had theor chance. The NIMBYs were less militant then though.

One of my first pictures and one of the first ever pictures taken of tall buildings in Athens.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/1977MessogeionAvenue.jpg

4. Syggrou Avenue in its junction with the Kallirois Avenue in 1978, taken from my father's car. In this picture we see one of the first road junctions built in Athens back in the 1960s. This particular area, albeit lowrise is one of the most modern in Athens with many modern buildings around. As a matter of fact for the Greeks here, the Suggrou Avenue had not been enlarged to its current 4+1 lanes (talking about a whole side road here) per each side width that we know ot today... :)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/1978-AthensSyngrouAvenue.jpg

Of course the city is now in a much better shape. However, I remenber the days when I was looking at new towers being built and counting the floors. I hope to God that one day, decedes later, I will be doing the same again... :)

Giorgio

June 6th, 2006, 11:20 AM

Thanks for the additions

Spartan_X

June 24th, 2006, 01:20 PM

κοιτάζοντας στο forum τις διάφορες φωτογραφίες της Αθήνας σκεύτηκα να ψάξω για παλίες φωτογραφίες της Αθήνας, και βρήκα αυτή εδώ τη σελίδα με κάποιες άκρως εντυπωσιακές εικόνες ( μερικές είναι απο το 1845! )
http://www.ellada.com/old-athens.html

Γνωρίζει κάποιος άλλος σελίδες με φωτογραφίες απο τη Αθήνα όπως ήταν στο παρελθόν ; Η έχει φωτογραφίες τέτοιες και μπορεί να τις "ανεβάσει";

Ευχαριστώ :)

christos

June 24th, 2006, 06:08 PM

Εξαρχεια 1865(τότε ήταν προάστειο της Αθήνας!)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/old-athens4exarxeia1865.jpg
Αθήνα 1870
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/old-athens51870.jpg
Λεωφόρος Συγγρού!
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/bsuggrou.jpg

Giorgio

June 25th, 2006, 06:23 AM

amazing how quick it grew!

Spartan_X

June 25th, 2006, 12:03 PM

Η λεωφόρος Συγγρού με φοίνικες ... :eek2:

GrigorisSokratis

June 26th, 2006, 04:05 AM

Η Αθηνα του 1950

http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/photographers/KasimatisStelios/documents/images/Mais10.jpg

http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/photographers/KasimatisStelios/documents/images/MAIS01.JPG

http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/photographers/KasimatisStelios/documents/images/Mais16.jpg

http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/photographers/KasimatisStelios/documents/images/Mais17.jpg

Η επόμενη είναι η ακριβότερη φωτογραφία του κόσμου μέχρι σήμερα είναι μια άποψη του Nαού του Ολυμπίου Διός της Aθήνας , τραβηγμένη το 1842 από τον ερασιτέχνη φωτογράφο και Γάλλο αριστοκράτη Zοζέφ Zιλμπέρ. Πουλήθηκε σε δημοπρασία του Οίκου Kρίστις στον Σεΐχη του Kατάρ, έναντι 789.000 ευρώ! Στη ιδια δημοπρασία πουλήθηκαν άλλες δώδεκα από τις παλαιότερες φωτογραφίες της Eλλάδας.

http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/articles/news/foto/PHOTO/dagerotypia.jpg

Φωτογραφία της Κολοκυνθού ( Ποτάμι Κηφησός ) στις αρχές του 20ου αιώνα
http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/history/ellada_tou_xtes/peristeri/photo/kolokinthou1.jpg

Ο δρόμος που οδηγούσε από την Κολοκυνθού στο Περιστέρι.Τότε ονομάζονταν οδός Περιστερίου
http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/history/ellada_tou_xtes/peristeri/photo/odosperisteriou.jpg

Ο Γρηγόρης Μπιθικώτσης με την κόρη του Άννα στην Παναγή Τσαλδάρη (Πρέπει να υπογραμμίσω οτι σήμερα ακριβώς κάτω απο το σημείο στο οποίο στέκονται ο διάσημος τραγουδιστής και η κόρη του σήμερα κατασκευάζεται η σηραγγα της γραμμής 2 του ΜΕΤΡΟ η οποία θα συνδέει τους σταθμούς Αγ. Αντωνίου και Περιστερίου).
http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/history/ellada_tou_xtes/peristeri/photo/bithikotsis-anna.jpg

Η οδός Παναγή Τσαλδάρη στο ύψος της Ευαγγελίστριας.
http://www.fotoartmagazine.gr/history/ellada_tou_xtes/peristeri/photo/tsaldari1.jpg

Η Πλακα
http://mishami.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301124.Image103_res.jpg

http://k43.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301125.Image104_res.jpg

http://k41.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301126.Image202_res.jpg

http://mk23.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301127.Image204_res.jpg

http://mk29.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301128.Image301_res.jpg

http://k47.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301129.Image501_res.jpg

http://mishuna.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301130.Image602_res.jpg

http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301131.Image603_res.jpg

http://k43.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301132.Image702_res.jpg

http://mk23.image.pbase.com/u35/kkranis/upload/23301277.Image403_res.jpg

1845
http://www.ellada.com/images6/old-athens2.jpg

Πλατεία Κοτζία. Μα τι έγινε με το πράσινο; Τσιμεντοποιήσανε τον τόπο! Τι έχουνε στο μυαλό οι σημερινοί.....αρμόδιοι αστικοί σχεδιαστές, τόσο δύσκολο ήτανε να φυτέψουν κάμποσα δέντρα εδώ κι εκεί όπως είχανε κάνει οι....<<καθυστερημένοι>> παλιοί;
http://www.fossnet.com/photos/baiolou.jpg

christos

June 26th, 2006, 04:54 AM

Η 4η από το τέλος φωτογραφία είναι από το θησείο και είναι ακρίβως έτσι και σήμερα!τι χρόνια και εκέινα..όποιος έχει υλικό ας βάλει,θα προσπαθήσω και εγώ να βρω.

christos

June 26th, 2006, 05:08 AM

Αθήνα 1944
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/A8hna1944.jpg
Φάληρο 1948
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/falhro48.jpg
Πειραιάς 1944
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/peiraias1944.jpg
Νέο Φάληρο 1920
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/NeonPhaleron-Thebeach.jpg
Πειραιάς 1909
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/peiraias1909.jpg
Πειραιας(μάλλον 1960)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/p3.jpg
Και η τελευταία ξανά από τον Πειραιά,από ότι καταλαβαίνω πρέπει να είναι η εκκλησία του Αγίου Σπυρίδονος και ό δρόμος που φαίνεται να είναι ο παραλιακός που οδηγεί στον ΟΛΠ.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/piraeus6.jpg

pilaf

June 28th, 2006, 01:37 AM

πολυ ομορφες φωτογραφιες.

Για την Κοτζια εχω να σημειωσω: τα δεντρα κοπηκαν γιατι θεωρειται μνημειακη πλατεια και πρεπει να φαινονται τα κτιρια. Εχει καποια λογικη, αλλα δυστυχως στην Αθηνα λοιπουν τοσο τα δεντρα που δεν ξερω αν μπορουμε να εχουμε μνημειακες πλατειες...

Spartan_X

June 28th, 2006, 12:54 PM

NMBS1

June 28th, 2006, 01:21 PM

Looks like the uncontrolled development of 30-40 years ago did a lot of damage. Old Athens looked superb :(

christos

June 28th, 2006, 02:17 PM

Αυτό το κτήριο με το ρολοί στις φωτογραφίες απο τον Πειραία ποίο είναι ; Αν δεν κάνω λάθος δέν πρέπει να υπάρχει σήμερα ( και οπωσδήποτε κρίμα που δέν υπάρχει ... θα έδινε ενα πολύ ωραίο γραφικό τόνο στο λιμάνι :( )
Πράγματι πολύ ωραία κτίριο,πολλά είναι ακόμα και τώρα τα μαγαζιά στον Πειραιά που έχουν την φωτογραφία μ'αυτό το κτίριο.Aν δεν κάνω λάθος ήταν το παλιό δημαρχείο του Πειραιά, που κάποιος φωστήρας δήμαρχος(δεν θυμάμαι το όνομά του)ήθελε να το κατεδαφίση..Επίσης συμφωνώ απόλυτα με αυτό που λέει ο NMBS1,υπήρχαν πολύ ωραία κτίρια εκείνη την εποχή στη Αθήνα και τον Πειραιά αλλά και η δυνατότητα να οικοδομηθούν πολύ καλύτερα με περισσότερους χώρους πρασίνου και όχι αυτό το χάος που υπάρχει σήμερα..

Elysium

June 29th, 2006, 05:45 PM

the junta has a lot to answer for.

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/athinasstreet2_jpg_view.htm

Many of these buildings disappeared between 1940-80, but there was a peak of activity under the junta's criminal regime.

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/index.htm

GrigorisSokratis

July 11th, 2006, 04:51 AM

Athens from Mount Hymettus ca 1839

http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/1873.jpg

Athens ca 1832
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/1962.jpg

Athens from the Ilissus ca 1851
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/athens%20from%20the%20ilissus.jpg

Theseus temple ca 1850
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/das%20theseus%20tempel.jpg

North Front of the Parthenon ca 1839
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/north%20front%20of%20the%20parthenon.jpg

The Agora 1851
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/2531.jpg

View near Athens ca 1834
http://www.antique-prints.de/shop/Media/Shop/view%20near%20athens.jpg

guru

September 11th, 2006, 08:00 AM

Δείτε και αυτό:
Φωτογραφίες απο το παρελθόν
http://stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479

gm2263

November 6th, 2006, 03:17 PM

Kapnicarea Church in Hermou street

1846:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Classic%20Architecture%20Pictures/KapnikareaChurch-1946.jpg

2004:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Classic%20Architecture%20Pictures/Athens-HermouStreet2-TheKapnikareaC.jpg

Just for the record and to revive this exceptional thread... :)

GrigorisSokratis

November 6th, 2006, 05:27 PM

Wow! who would imagine that guys were strolling through the 10th most expensive street in the world and would have to pay 3000 Euros/mt. to afford a space on it.

crossbowman

November 6th, 2006, 07:12 PM

wow....if only half of these buildings had been preserved, Athens would now have a trully amazing historical centre!
These Omonia pics are :drool: :drool:

Cerises

November 7th, 2006, 06:39 AM

Many of those buildings were real gems! And all of these pictures are unbelievable! Regarding the Omonia pics, if only they could get it right, maybe go back and review these photos perhaps?:shocked: :colgate:

GrigorisSokratis

November 7th, 2006, 07:19 AM

Actually there are over 20 of these kind of medieval chrurches all around downtown Athens (most of them built between the X-XIV centuries, over the 60% in the XI actually). Not to mention other many medieval/byzantine sites all around the city.

I can mention some of them:

-The old mitropolis late XIIc
-Kapnikarea XIc
-Aghios Nikolaos Ragkabas XIc
-Aghia Ekaterini XI-XIIc
-Aghios Ioannis Theologos XI-XIIc
-Sotiras toy Kotaki XI-XIIc
-Metohi Panaghiou Tafoy XVIIc
-Sotira Lykodimoy XIc
-Aghii Apostoli toy solaki XI c
-Pantanasa Vc and reconstructed on Xc (oldest in Athens downtown)
-Aghios Dimitrios Loumbardiaris XVIc
-Aghioi Asomatoi XIc
-Aghios Ioannis stin Kolona XIIc
-Aghioi Theodoroi XI c
-Taxiarhes XIIc
-Aghios Georgos No precise date but it's known that it was built in the frank occupation times.

There're many more but right now I don't have the exact dates of them. Also many of them have been reconstructed over older churches of the first Christian period, that's the First Millenium. So this "new" 1000 years old versions are built over the foundations of 1700-1500 years old ones.

Despite the common belief Athens has many but many medieval sites to visit that you won't find in other European sister cities. Yes believe it or not.

Athens is at the same level in that aspect of London, Paris or Rome.

Maybe what people are confused with is with the issue that most of the other European capitals have monuments and churches from the Renaissance, that's from XV century and later but not as many medieval (of course there are older ones but not as many as you will find in Athens or Rome).

Cities like Paris, London, Madrid or Berlin (the last one settled in the XIIIc) were just small villages in the first millenium and those nations were trying to find themselves as national entities while we had a consolidated empire that lasted almost 1000 years (with pros and cons) but that's a fact.

The magnificent constructions found in Paris are a result of Haussmann time in the 19th century (despite common belief that consider thos beautiful eclectic buildings as medieval). Don't get confussed as cities like London (before the 1666 fire) and Paris (before the Haussmannitation of 1835) were just dirty towns full of dusty lanes and old wooden-straw-roofed cottages with rich areas covered by palaces of the XV-XVIII period. In Paris for instance you won't find even half the quantity of medieval structures found in Athens (that's the 476-1453 period); or in London where most of the medieval town was destroyed in the big fire of 1666.

As for Madrid well it was founded in the 9th century by the Moors and reconquered by Christians in the 11th century. But remained a small village until the XVI c. when became the capital of Spain so don't expect many medieval structures (btw the oldest church is a XIV c built one, San Pedro in the Calle de Segovia). Most of the city magnificence is a result of the Hapsburgs city beautification.

In Vienna the oldest church is St Ruprecht built in the XII century.

I could keep listing other examples but this post would be endless.

So resuming IMHO I think the only European capital that can compete with Athens for this period with as many medieval churches as Athens has is.... Rome.

Just wanted to expose my point of view on the subject.

Bitxofo

November 8th, 2006, 05:37 AM

So beautiful...
:drool::drool:
I will be in Athens again, from 24 to 27/11/2006!
:happy:

Prometheus

November 8th, 2006, 08:59 AM

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/grandebretagne.jpg
http://www.chem.uoa.gr/Location/AthensMap/Images/grbretagne.jpg

crossbowman

November 8th, 2006, 06:42 PM

^^ That must be one of a few buildings that changed for the better :)

http://www.athensguide.com/oldcity/phileninon.jpg

Γνωρίζει κανείς τι είναι αυτές οι αψίδες που συνδέουν τα φανάρια φωτισμού, που φαίνεται πως υπήρχαν και στην πλατεία Συντάγματος και στην Ομόνοια?:dunno:
Για ρεύμα?

pilaf

November 12th, 2006, 03:00 AM

πωπω παιδια μπραβο για τις φωτογραφιες, η παλια αθηνα φαινεται να ηταν πολυ ομορφη. Ειδικα οι πλατειες και οι εικονες απο το Φαληρο...

νομιζω οτι μπορουμε να διδαχτουμε απο αυτες, ειδικα στο Φαληρο εχω την ετνυπωση οτι ειναι καιρος για να γινουν παραλιες και ζωνες περιπατου. Ακομα δεν μπορω να το χωνεψω οτι με τοσα λεφτα στου Ολυμπιακους αφησανε το Φαληρο ενα τεραστιο τσιμεντο...

onZikisAyas

November 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/30719/368392/0/Neon+Phaleron-+Hotel+Aktaion.jpg

Who ever ordered that to be demolished should have been hung!

Giorgio

November 12th, 2006, 03:14 PM

This thread makes me so sad.
I really wish they would rebuild at least some of the jewels here, although a lot of this can never be replaced in charm and character.

The concrete blocks are one of the worst happenings in the history of Athens!

onZikisAyas

November 13th, 2006, 10:54 PM

^^ This thread makes me feel sad, and im not even Greek!

LEAFS FANATIC

November 13th, 2006, 10:58 PM

Who ever ordered that to be demolished should have been hung!

My grandfather has pics of that place and it looks incredible. Its too bad what happened....

NicolasII

November 14th, 2006, 04:56 AM

Yes, I agree, so much destruction for so little gain.
By the looks of it the antiparohi legislation of the 60, and 70s has removed close to 65% of neo-classical Athens' building stock.

I suppose what is more disturbing is that the Greek people continue to let their City's get raped and pillaged by so called "Mayors and Nomarhes". How such village idiots get elected into positions of power is beyond me. I suppose in the end we get the City that we deserve.

NMBS1

November 14th, 2006, 05:30 AM

We should be ashamed of ourselves for having destroyed such a beautiful city.

GrigorisSokratis

November 14th, 2006, 06:09 AM

SKLAVENITIS

November 14th, 2006, 08:29 PM

*

GrigoriSocratis,

Yes there is such an architect:) : Demetris Porphyrios

http://www.porphyrios.co.uk/

*

http://valdeurope.typepad.com/val_deurope/images/square_kensington_15052005.jpg

http://architecture.nd.edu/news_and_events/driehaus/images/three_brindleyplace.jpg http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW02-03/02-1009/featatrium.jpg
http://architecture.nd.edu/news_and_events/driehaus/images/grove_oxford.jpg

This one is in construction right now: Whitman College Princeton
http://66.230.220.70/images/post/princeton/01.jpg

*

GrigorisSokratis

November 15th, 2006, 05:12 AM

So what is he waiting for to do the same in Athens? :colgate:

It would look great to have say for instance some areas with this kind of architecture syle, imagine converting Alexandras into a Champ Elysees of Athens.

SKLAVENITIS

November 15th, 2006, 07:38 AM

GrigoriSokratis: So what is he waiting for to do the same in Athens?

Well....he's already started. Here is his first building -

http://architecture.nd.edu/news_and_events/driehaus/images/interamerican_headquarters.jpg

Lets hope many more will follow

PS: I don't think his designs are appropriate everywhere but they certainly are a great fit in the Athenian environment.

*

GrigorisSokratis

November 15th, 2006, 04:40 PM

I mean more classiclal exteriors with modern state of the art interiors but estrictly old fashioned exteriors.

onZikisAyas

November 16th, 2006, 12:37 AM

Hey, is there any architect out there that could design a building like that one? I mean a Neoclassical-Eclectic one but with modern inner infrastructure of course and its outter look with a style of the good old days.

I mean, I don't mean to refill the whole city with this kind of style as we live a functional pragmatic era, but hey at least one would be great, just one.

And this applies to the whole world; as nowhere on earth no-architect has ever designed using this style in the last, say 40-50 years.

Maybe they're not able to design such beauties? And yes, I'm challenging you mr architects of the world. ;)

Grigoris, I am glad that I'm not the only one who feels the same. As somebody born and raised in London and isolated by buildings of the kind you're describing, I am one who also sees the beauty of these buildings and what richness it potrays.
Here in London, you can see thousands of wonderful Neoclassical buildings...They're everywhere...They are as common as trees... All of which have been designed to architectural perfection.

I travel through the heart of London (where these buildings are most commonly found) everyday, and the city never ceases to amaze me with its architecture, in which case i always question why people say that Paris is the most beautiful city in the world, if not europe the very least.
I am not biased. I'm an objective guy who has experienced life in both cities, and i did not struggle to make a judgement on which city is best, IMO, it is London, but that is my opinion, my objective opinion (Although i think Paris is better place to life with your GF if you're in a world of romance which i once was, though i was very young, 18 to be precise :D)...

Anyway, enough about London...

Before I started univercity, I thought to myself and hoped someone someday, can design a couple of hundred neoclassical buildings in Ankara or anyother major Turkish city.

When I finish my degree in Architecture, I will opt to design such beautiful buildings without hessitation, but the problem is, nobody are after neoclassical buildings in their country, and when i saw what "gems" as gm and others so correctly stated were demolished, i was gob-smacked.

onZikisAyas

November 16th, 2006, 12:39 AM

I mean more classiclal exteriors with modern state of the art interiors but estrictly old fashioned exteriors.

That is exactly what i was thinking when i saw that building...The idea was partly right, but the windows which is proberbly suppost to give the whole building a modernised look does not work IMO.

GrigorisSokratis

November 16th, 2006, 03:23 AM

Above all welcome onZikisAyas and glad to hear you feel the same.

Now as for Athens it was a heaven of Neoclassical buildings until the 50-60' now it still has a considerable number of neoclassical buildings mainly in Downtown Athens not to mention the old quarters of the city which are almost in their whole old fashioned and slightly in other areas of the city.

The problem is that this style covered most of the city (of course we have to keep on mind that Athens in those times had just 1.5 millions while today we are talking about a 5 mills metropolis) when nowadays most of the city in proportion to its size lacks of this architecture (the city itself today covers 500 sq kms) and instead of neoclassical you will find a myriad of appartment buildings.

So please when finishing your arch degree please give a try to Athens and invest some of your neoclassical ideas in this city, and who knows maybe someday you could be famous for rebirthing this style as today Calatrava is well recognized for his white-marine-skeletical-shell'ish style.

Giorgio

November 17th, 2006, 01:32 PM

I mean more classiclal exteriors with modern state of the art interiors but estrictly old fashioned exteriors.

You mean like the Apple Store in London:
http://es.appleweblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/apple-store-london.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9526/applestorelondon5yw4.jpg

Inside:
http://www.macminute.com/images/db/londonstore1.jpg
http://www.groupereflect.net/blog/blog/archives/apple_store.JPG

GrigorisSokratis

December 21st, 2006, 05:25 AM

Hi, here you can enjoy some videos and images of the old Athens.

Both shots and footage are from the ISAP (the company that manages our city metro system line 1).

Hope you enjoy'em

The videos are from parts of old movies showing different places of the city and mainly focusing on line 1 sites, trains and stations. They're mainly of the 40's, 50's and early 60's

http://www.isap.gr/images/movie_photo4.gif
Low bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_4_sm.wmv)
High bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_4_big.wmv)

http://www.isap.gr/images/movie_photo1.gif
Low bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_1_sm.wmv)
High bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_1_big.wmv)

http://www.isap.gr/images/movie_photo2.gif
Low bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_2_sm.wmv)
High bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_2_big.wmv)

http://www.isap.gr/images/movie_photo3.gif
Low bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_3_sm.wmv)
High bandwidth (http://media.forthnet.gr/isap/isap_3_big.wmv)

The images span from late 19th century to the 60's

Train between stations of Piraeus and Faliro
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b1.jpg

Construction works along the Omonia-Attiki tunnel
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b2.jpg

Steam driven railway's engine in Piraeus
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b3.jpg

Old wooden train between Moschato and Faliro stations
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b4.jpg

Steam driven train Athens-Piraeus in 1891
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b5.jpg

Horse drawn carriage for the repair of the tramway's pantograph
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b6.jpg

Omonia's old Station in 1925 (maybe my grandpa was there as he worked in the area back in those days, yes he's too old to be my gf as he was born in 1910!!!)
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b7.jpg

Wooden train at New Ionia's station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b8.jpg

Construction works tunnel Thissio-Omonia
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b9.jpg

Construction works along the Thissio-Omonia tunnel
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b10.jpg

Royal Train at Piraeus Station in 1936
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b11.jpg

Wooden train under the Papastratos bridge
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b12.jpg

Interior view of the Royal Train
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b13.jpg

Wooden train at New Ionia's station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b8.jpg

Royal train at Piraeus in 1936
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b18.jpg

Thissio station in 1880
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b19.jpg

The Royal Wagon
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b20.jpg

Royal train at Piraeus station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b21.jpg

Interior view of Perama tramway vehicle
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b22.jpg

Goods train at Thissio
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b23.jpg

Electric locomotive for auxiliary works type BAUME MARPENT(1904)
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b24.jpg

Vehicle for auxiliary works
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b25.jpg

Ano Patissia station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b26.jpg

Hybrid electric locomotive GOOSSENS type(1911)
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b27.jpg

Towing and track and general use vehicle
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b28.jpg

Steam driven railway's engine in Piraeus
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b29.jpg

Consstruction works of the tunnel from Thissio to Omonia
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b30.jpg

Piraeus-Perama Tramway in 1936
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b31.jpg

The interior of the royal wagon
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b32.jpg

Horse drawn tramway
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b33.jpg

The Trumpeter (He was trumpeting for the train to depart)
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b34.jpg

Steam driven railway named Therion at Messogia in 1885
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b36.jpg

Τramway car used in the Customs-Larissa Station line at the old depot
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b38.jpg

Luxury wagon of the steamdrawn railway 1869 - 1904
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b39.jpg

Electrified Tramway
http://www.isap.gr/photos/b40.jpg

1880 - The little wooden theater at Faliron
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb41.jpg

Old theater of EHS at Faliron
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb42.jpg

1907 - The old Faliron Station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb43.jpg

1920 - Old Faliron Station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb44.jpg

1926 - Piraeus Station construction
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb45.jpg

1926 - Piraeus Station construction
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb47.jpg

1926 - Piraeus Station construction
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb48.jpg

1926 - Piraeus Station construction
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb46.jpg

The first works of SAP's construction
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb51.jpg

Worksite of SAP's construction, near Thission Station
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb52.jpg

1920 - The train named Therion at 3rd September's str.
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb49.jpg

1931 - The train named Therion, towards snowed Kifissia
http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb50.jpg

LEAFS FANATIC

December 21st, 2006, 05:36 AM

Grigori!!!

This is an INCREDIBLE POST!!!

Thank you so much! What a find you have made!

Bravo!

prisma

December 21st, 2006, 12:32 PM

This is geat thread!!! The railway history is one of my favourites! Maybe you know to tell me the year of that Ano Patisia station pic? Do you any other old pics from this area? (Ano Patisia / Kato Patisia area)

gm2263

December 21st, 2006, 12:55 PM

http://www.isap.gr/photos/bb49.jpg

Amazing thread!!!

http://www.isap.gr/photos/b3.jpg

This also has to be the engine of the so-called "Therion" (Θηρίον), a.k.a. "the beast".

My grandfather used to tell me stories about this. It sounded like a beast from what I am told, for sure :)

Also being the :ancient: creature that I am, I can confess to you that I have been both to the wooden and the earlier trains of ISAP. They bear no relationship to the new ones of course... :)

Old times, I mean ask your mothers or your grandmothers to tell you about the time that most of the Athenian streets had no asphalt and when the waterman (ο νερουλάς) and the iceman (ο παγοπώλης) were selling water and/or pieces of ice, especially during the summer. Also, I remember the milkman bringing us milk and yogurt even in my house in Papagos...

That was life in the old days... At least, Plaka had one thousand flower scents during spring time...

GrigorisSokratis

December 21st, 2006, 04:14 PM

Thanks guys.

I know that Grigori, as my family is from the western suburbs and peristeri from back to the days that they did not see even a cm of asphalt. My great grand mother used to bring the coal for the family and other handful families of the area of todays Peristeri's main square from the Egaleo mines back in early 20th century, so could be considered as the coaler-woman of the hood :lol: .

Then in the 20's the area of Peristeri saw the population rush and became an important hood of Athens since then.

As for the Ano Patissia station it rather shoud be from 1958 two years later of being inaugurated along with its Kato Patissia sister, also inaugurated the same year. But I place it in the 58 as one of the 58 trains shows up in the pic.

GrigorisSokratis

December 21st, 2006, 04:30 PM

Here follows a list of inauguration dates of the different stations of line 1 as well as the manufacture date and other data of each train models.

Stations of metro line 1

1. Piraeus Station 1869 - Today's Station June 1928
2. Faliron Station 1882 - Today's Station 1987
3. Moschato Station 1882.
4. Kallithea Station 1.7.1928.
5. Tavros Station 6.2.1989.
6. Petralona Station 22.11.1954.
7. Thissio Station 27.2.1869.
8. Monastiraki Station 17.5.1895.
9. Omonia Station 17.5.1895 (*) - Today's Station 21.7.1930 (**).
10. Victoria Station 1.3.1948.
11. Attiki Station 30.6.1949.
12. Aghios. Nicolaos Station 12.2.1956.
13. Kato Patissia Station 12.2.1956.
14. Aghios Eleftherios Station 4.8.1961.
15. Ano Patissia Station 12.2.1956.
16. Perissos Station 14.3.1956.
17. Pefkakia Station 5.7.1956.
18. New Ionia Station 14.3.1956.
19. Iraklion Station 4.3.1957.
20. Irini Station 3.9.1982.
21. Neratziotissa Station 2.8.2004.
22. Amaroussio Station 1.9.1957.
23. K.A.T. Station 27.3.1989.
24. Kifissia Station 10.8.1957.

(*) = first Omonia's station which was not underground
(**) = today's Omonia station which is underground

Trains

http://www.isap.gr/images/1904.jpg

Manufacture date:1904

Train composition: 6 vehicles

Train capacity: 216 seating passengers, 498 standing passengers, 714 Total passengers

Car body material: Wood

http://www.isap.gr/images/1958.jpg

Manufacture date:1958 - 1968

Train composition: 5 vehicles

Train capacity: 280 seating passengers, 590 standing passengers, 870 Total passengers

Car body material: Steel

http://www.isap.gr/images/1983.jpg

Manufacture date:1985

Train composition: 6 vehicles

Train capacity: 189 seating passengers, 619 standing passengers, 808 Total passengers

Car body material: Aluminum

http://www.isap.gr/images/1985.jpg

Manufacture date:1985-1995

Train composition: 5 vehicles

Train capacity: 174 seating passengers, 656 standing passengers, 830 Total passengers

Car body material: Welded steel with stainless steel exterior sheeting.

http://www.isap.gr/images/2000.jpg

Manufacture date:2000-2004

Train composition: 6 vehicles

Train capacity: 216 seating passengers, 786 standing passengers, 1002 Total passengers.

Car body material: Welded steel with stainless steel exterior sheeting.

gm2263

December 21st, 2006, 07:46 PM

Hehe, my mother's family used to live until the late 1950's close to Vrachoriou street in Kolonos. Life was simpler but certain amenities were also difficult to find back then ...

As for the "Therion", my grandfather and others played and many times they managed to outrun it when the tired beast tried to climb on sloping terrain.

No match for the modern metro and ISAP cars of course...

Άλλες εποχές...

GrigorisSokratis

April 11th, 2007, 07:45 AM

Yesterday I was cleaning my wardrobe when I found my old dusty forgotten time machine. So, I decided it was a good moment to make a travel into the past and take you guys with me.

So, now we should choose a place and a time...Let me suggest you the time...let's travel back to late 18th century, go across the whole 19th century and stop sometime in early 20th, 1920 could be a good time.

Now as for the place....give me a while to think.....hey Athens could be a good place. So we agree let's hop into the past of Athens.

....And please, fasten your seatbelts, ;)

Philopappos in 1794
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Philopappos1794.jpg

Let's celebrate the new century, welcome to Athens in 1800!!!!
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1800Hilaire.jpg

1805 Akropolis
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Acropolis1805.jpg

The Erechtheion in 1819
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Erechtheion1819.jpg

Parthenon in 1819
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Parthenon1819.jpg

Erechtheion in 1820
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Erechtheion1820.jpg

Athens in 1821
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1821.jpg

The Acropolis in 1822
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Akropolis1822.jpg

The Acropolis 1825
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Dupre03.jpg

Nice view of the Acropolis from a house in 1825
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Dupre02.jpg

View of 1836
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/AthensAkropolis1836.jpg

15/2/1837 King Otto and Amalia in a stroll through the city
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/images/OttoAthens1837.jpg

Olympeion, Zeus Temple 1838
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Olympeion1838.jpg

Eleusina in 1843. Sanctuary of Eleusis, in the background houses (removed in the following excavations after all houses were sold to the archaeological society and excavations started around 1882)
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Eleusis1843.jpg

Athens in 1850
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1850.jpg

Eleusina in 1850's
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Eleusis1850_80.jpg

1850's Erechtheion
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Erechtheion1850_80.jpg

1850's Hadrian Arch
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/HadrianArch2.jpg

1850's Nike temple
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Nike1850_80.jpg

1850's Athens (one of the oldest partial view shoots of the city). Far in the background you can see the Old Palace (now the Parliament)
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1850_80.jpg

1850's Parthenon
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Parthenon1850_80.jpg

1850's Propylaea
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Propylaea1850_80.jpg

1850's Herodes Atticus
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/HerodesAtticus_1850_80.jpg

1850's of the Olympeion and Hadrian Arch from Plaka.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Olympeion1850_80.jpg

1850's most popular corner view of the Acropolis (though 150 years old :) )
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Acropolis1850_80.jpg

French tourists in Athens 1860
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/AcropolisTourists.jpg

Propylaea, 1862
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Acropolis1862.jpg

Aghios Eleytherios church (the one next to the Mitropoli) in 1862
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/AgiosEleftheriosAthens1862.jpg

Syntagma square at Filellinon back in 1863
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Syntagma1863.jpg

Sounion in 1869
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Sounion1869Church.jpg

Dionysus Theater 1880
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Temples/images/DionysusTh1880.jpg

Athens 1895
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1895.jpg

Athens 1897
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1897.jpg

Athens 1897, 11th century Dafni monastery
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Dafni1897.jpg

Athens, soldiers in the temple of Thesseus back in 1897
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Theseion1897.jpg

Athens 1897, Thesseion area
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1897_2.jpg

Athens 1897, guess the building :) .....Oh my...I lost my hat!!!!! I need one right now, but where could I find one?
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1897_4.jpg

Athens 1898, Piraeus
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Piraeus1898.jpg

Lysikrates Monument, back in 1900
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Lysikrates1900.jpg

Dionysus Theater 1900
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Temples/images/DionysusTh1900.jpg

Flirting in Kerameikos back in 1900
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/KerameikosDr01.jpg

1900 drawing of a common Athenean day
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/AthensDr01.jpg

Athens 1901, the 12th century built Aghios Eleytherios church
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/AgiosEleftherios1901.jpg

1903 Athens
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1903.jpg

1903, Lavrion Silvermine workers
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Lavrion1903.jpg

1905 Acropolis
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Acropolis1905.jpg

1906 Athens
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1906.jpg

Athens 1907, view from the Acropolis. 1 Lysicrates monument, 2 Hadrians Arch, 3. Olympeion (Zeus Temple), 4. Olympic Stadium
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1907_2.jpg

Theseion 1907
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Theseion1907.jpg

1907 Athens, we're looking to the west, the area of Elaionas, where a lot of new developments are going to be done, far in the right corner you can see my neighborhood Peristeri
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1907.jpg

1907 Athens, in Piraeus
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Piraeus1907.jpg

1907 Marathon
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Marathon1907.jpg

1907 Eleusina
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Eleusis1907.jpg

1919 Athens
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1919.jpg

Enough for today, let's go back to our beloved 21st century....

Hey wait, a forumer asks me for a quick travel to old Larissa....Are you sure guys? all right but just a quick glimpse of Larissa.

Here you got it Early 19th century Larissa
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Larissa18X_01.jpg

Some friends from Thessaly back in 1897
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Thessaly1897.jpg

Thessalean camp in 1903
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Thessaly1903.jpg

Tempi valley back in 1905
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Regions/images/ValeOfTempeGell.jpg

Now we are ready to go back.....hey what I'm hearing? Patra?! No way! I'm tired!....All right but this is the last trip.

1690 Patra!!!!!
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Patrasso1690.jpg

1817 Patra
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Patras181701.jpg

1910 Patra
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Patras1910.jpg

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/PatraFortress01.jpg

Yeah I know there are also Spartan forumers....here we go!

1850 Sparti
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Sparta1850_80.jpg

We take the road from Sparti to Kalamata in 1903 (of course it's the old one :) )
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/SpartaKalamata1903.jpg

Sparti in 1907
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Sparta1907.jpg

Sparti in 1929
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/SpartaP1929.jpg

-Hey! and what about Thessaloniki?.
-Who said that?!
...hmmmph no answers!.....all right you win, let's finish in Thessaloniki

1848
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/ThessalonikiLear1848.jpg

1916
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Saloniki1916.jpg

Pheeew!! what a trip guys!

Giorgio

April 11th, 2007, 08:16 AM

amazing pics!

Kuvvaci

April 11th, 2007, 09:34 AM

bravo wonderful thread

Demetrius

April 11th, 2007, 10:11 AM

One of the best threads ever!
Wow!

skylinearth

April 11th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Great pics Grigori, well done :applause:

Raleigh-NC

April 11th, 2007, 03:06 PM

Excellent work :applause: :applause: Thanks for putting this thread together!!!

chicagogeorge

April 12th, 2007, 03:37 AM

I've been searching for authentic photos of Greece during the 19th and early 20th century. Thanks!

Spartan_X

April 12th, 2007, 10:46 PM

Wonderful photos :) I am curious if someone has or knows where i can find some old photos of Kallithea. This is where i live in Athens :) - i am inderested to see how Kallithea looked in the past.

Cerises

April 13th, 2007, 12:51 AM

I'm really enjoying these photos!!! Thank you for finding and posting them!!!

Reaperos

April 13th, 2007, 05:21 AM

Amazing how abandoned Greece was under the ottomans, sad and touching, we were quite eastern in those days, camels everywhere ect, It is a very moving thread, beautifully put together. Bravo.

GrigorisSokratis

April 13th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Amazing how abandoned Greece was under the ottomans, sad and touching, we were quite eastern in those days, camels everywhere ect, It is a very moving thread, beautifully put together. Bravo.

Actually those camels serviced the caravan route from Athens to Belgrade and Constantinople, and was a transport brought to Europe by the Ottomans in the 17th century. Same situation happened in places like Spain by the Moorish from the 8th century to the 13th; and in other neighboring places of Greece like Serbia, Bulgaria and Croatia.

chicagogeorge

April 14th, 2007, 05:04 AM

Amazing how abandoned Greece was under the ottomans, sad and touching, we were quite eastern in those days, camels everywhere ect, It is a very moving thread, beautifully put together. Bravo.

Greece always had a touch of eastern in it (more so than other Europeans), way before the Ottomans. It's basic geography, and cultural contacts. However, yeah most of mainland Greece was in a bad state (aside from say Thessaloniki) during the Ottoman empire. Hell, Athens, was in a bad state during the Byzantine empire as well.......

GrigorisSokratis

April 15th, 2007, 03:03 AM

Actually Athens was a 10,000 people town back in those times. As for the Byzantine times it wasn't that bad, moreover it had a renaissance period from 11th to 13th centuries.

For more info on the subject check the following comprehensive thread on history of Athens:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422757

It's divided by periods: (though it's not yet finished as it goes from the 7th millenium BC to 1832. I'll add the next period in the next few days.

As far as the eastern flavor regards, I think the Spaniards have a more easterner style in their architecture, music (remember flamenco?) even in their language with thousands of moorish and arabian borrowed words.

GrigorisSokratis

April 15th, 2007, 03:26 AM

BTW in this one you can see how current Odos Athinas looked like 200 years ago.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/Athens1821.jpg

Reaperos

April 15th, 2007, 03:42 AM

I think you are getting mixed up with North African and Eastern concerning Spain. And although their DNA is surely spliced with 'Mooros' they are far more western than Greeks.

Greeks are eastern to an extent, I even think the east copied Greece in many cultural facets and many Europeans do not realise this, Eastern music, oral traditions, sculpture, philososphy - even the flag of Turkey (cresent moon and star) are prime examples of this. We still remain with what some Europeans see as eastern traditions and traits, however for me it is something for pride rather than excuses like the Caravan Route to explain away my brief observation of camels and turbans. Greece gave the east huge parts of their contemporary culture. Someone in a magazine the other day saw professional mourners at a Greek funeral and said: how eastern.. Little did they realise the ancient Greeks had professional mourners and they were ineffect the founders of the west. Most westerners still believe Greeks should all have blonde hair and blue eyes and because we don't have this as a general rule, say that there are eastern influences in our DNA, again these people don't realise ancient Athenians used to dye their hair blonde with lemon juice inorder to look fairer, slaves in their famous comedies were universally called 'Blondie' and anyone who has been to akrotiri will see our Minoan ancestors were almost an entirely dark-haired race. The East is part of Greece more so than Italy, and the rest of the West simply because just as Greece influenced the West, it also influenced the East - perhaps even more so in certain ways than we will ever realise..

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

April 15th, 2007, 12:09 PM

Athens images 1797-1920

nastyathenian

April 15th, 2007, 12:30 PM

Those pictures are rather depressing. At a time when for example Paris was an impressive city, Athens was nothing more than a village. We are lucky we live in the 21st century!

GrigorisSokratis

April 15th, 2007, 07:20 PM

Maybe it was depressing from the 17th century to to late 18th. As before of that the Turks didn't yet came to the area in significant numbers (and actually they never did as when Athens was a 10,000 people town only 700-800 were of Turkish origin, of course those few were the rulers). But until the 17th century we had those ruling rights. Unfortunately after that throughout the next 180 years until the 1780's things were really hard but after that a renaissance sprang in the city with Athens becoming a touristical place of interest for British, French and other origin travellers, who brought back some more politically correct customs (in our view at least) as many locals tried to resemble them and changed their style to something more British. Unfortunately not all of them came in order to bring new styles but instead to stole our national possessions with the complot of the economically favored Ottomans, one case is that of Lord Elgin.

As for the architecture there are some really nice buildings of this era still visible and in usage like the Baths and the National History museums which is nothing more than two mansions built in late 18th early 19th century that have been unified in the 1830's to result in a temporal palace, later our old parliament. Those mansions were not the only ones but many had sprang up throughout those 40 years of renaissance before the revolution mainly in places like current eastern Plaka, Klafthmonos area, Elaionas, Patissia and Kifissia.

The fate of them was varied from being destroyed in the revolutional period 1821-1828 or refurbished and restyled in the 1830's like the two mansions. So, hidden to our eyes in 1830's and 1840's neoclassical style refurbished buildings, our city has a good number of 18th c. renaissance time structures.

GrigorisSokratis

April 15th, 2007, 09:15 PM

As for Paris let me tell you that until the 1830's it wasn't the magnificent town we use to know and which was modified by Haussmann.

Actually it was a typical humble medieval town full of beautiful gothic churches and some palaces but with no boulevards at all, really humble houses (where real Parisians used to live in), no eclectic buildings, no sewage system (actually Paris always suffered a water shortage problem until the 19th century) and a logically smaller size (with current urban areas covered by fields and small rural cabins, as in many other cities all around Europe, Athens being one more of them).

Here you got some links to images of old Paris which are going to show you it was just a town with wonderful cathedrals a few Palaces for the rich and mostly made up of poor medieval shacks (still romantic to me ;) ).

1180 Paris (in those times it was still smaller than Athens who saw a renaissance throughout the 11th-13th century peiod).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Plan_de_Paris_1180_BNF07710746.png

1223 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Plan_de_Paris_1223_BNF07710747.png

1383 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Plan_de_Paris_1383_BNF07710748.png

1607 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Perspective_View_of_Paris_in_1607_Fac_simile_of_a_Copper_plate_by_Leonard_Gaultier_Collection_of_M_Guenebault_Paris.png

1705 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Plan_de_Paris_1705_BNF07710700.png

1740 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Plan_de_Paris_1740_BNF07710703.jpg

1750 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Carte_de_Cassini_Paris_BNF07711505.jpg

1789 Paris
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Map_of_Paris_in_1789_by_William_R_Shepherd_%28died_1834%29.jpg

As you can see if you've ever visited Paris, you'll realize that places nowadays located in Paris center like the Opera or the famous Eiffel tower lie in what were considered the outskirts of Paris as they were nothing more than rural areas or other separated villages (as in our case Kifissia, Peristeri, Egaleo, Filothei or Patissia were back in the 18th c, to mention a few).

It's the 1830's that brought the Industrial revolution to Paris and along with it and the new railways the arrival of thousands of migrants from the countryside converting in just a few years Paris into the second largest European city and the third in the world with some 900,000. Before of that it was a 650,000 (still big) city but still suffering the humble conditions of medieval towns.

From the wikipedia renovation of Paris article we have the following:

In the middle of the nineteenth century, the center of Paris had the same structure as it did in the Middle Ages. The narrow interweaved streets and cramped buildings impeded the flow of traffic, resulting in unhealthy conditions that were denounced by the first hygiene scientists.

At the end of the 1830s, prefect Rambuteau realized that the problems regarding traffic and hygiene in the old over-populated districts had become a cause for concern; in accordanace with the miasma theory of disease, then prevailing, it was important to "let air and men circulate". This conclusion stemmed from the 1832 cholera epidemic — which killed 20,000 in Paris out of a total population of 650,000 — and the new "social medicine" famously analyzed by Michel Foucault} (which focused on flux, circulation of air, location of cemeteries, etc.) Prefect Rambuteau thus drew a new street in the medieval center of Paris, but the administration had limited powers due to the prevailing rules regulating expropriation. A new law passed on May 3, 1841 attempted to solve this issue.

It was with this background that the Second Empire opted for a huge program of expropriation and clearances, much more costly than the servitude d'alignement, but also much more effective.

Elected president of the Republic of France in 1848, Napoleon's nephew became emperor on December 2, 1852, one year after his coup. Under his new name, Napoléon III decided to modernize Paris after seeing London, a city transformed by the Industrial Revolution, which offered large public parks and a complete sewer system. Inspired by Rambuteau's ideas, and aware of social issues, he wished to improve the housing conditions of the lower class; in some neighborhoods, the population density reached numbers of 250,000 people per square mile in conditions of very poor sanitation.

The plans were a reflection of the Empire's evolution: authoritarian until 1859, and more flexible after 1860. 20,000 houses were destroyed, and over 40,000 built between 1852 and 1872.

Some of these projects were to continue under the Third Republic, after Haussmann and Napoleon III had stepped down.

A network of large avenues
When Rambuteau cleared the way for the first time in the city's history for a large avenue in the center of Paris, Parisians were surprised by its width of 13 meters (45 ft). But Haussmann made the Rue Rambuteau a moderate-sized street after creating new avenues up to 30 meters wide (100 ft). To this day, the Haussmann network is still the backbone of Paris' urban body.

Green spaces
Green spaces in Paris were rare. Having visited and enjoyed the beautiful and plentiful London parks, Napoléon III hired engineer Jean-Charles Alphand, Haussmann's future successor, to create expansive parks and green spaces. On the east and west borders of the city, you could find the bois de Boulogne and the bois de Vincennes, respectively. In the enceinte de Thiers, the parc des Buttes-Chaumont, the parc Monceau, and the parc Montsouris offered citizens beautiful scenery and a place to relax and be with nature. Also, in each district squares were built, and trees were planted along avenues.

Monuments

Napoléon III and Haussmann covered the town with prestigious edifices. Charles Garnier constructed the Opéra Garnier in an eclectic style and Gabriel Davioud designed two symmetric theatres on the Place du Châtelet. L'Hôtel-Dieu, the prison of the Cité (and future police headquarters), and the tribunal of Commerce replaced the medieval districts on the Île de la Cité. Each of the twenty new local government districts (arrondissements) was given a town hall.

They took care to set these monuments in the town by creating vast perspectives. For example the Avenue de l'Opéra offers a great frame for the edifice of the Opera Garnier, while the houses that prevented contemplation of the cathedral of Notre-Dame gave way to a great open space.

Modern public facilities

The renovation of Paris was meant to be total. Cleaning up living areas implied not only a better air circulation but also better provision of water and better evacuation of waste.

In 1852, drinking water came mainly from the Ourcq. Steam engines also extracted water from the Seine, but the hygiene was appalling. Haussmann tasked the engineer Belgrand with the creation a new system of water provisioning to the capital, which lead to the construction of 600 kilometres of aqueduct between 1865 and 1900. The first, that of the Dhuis, brought water extracted near Château-Thierry. These aqueducts discharged their water in reservoirs situated within the city. Inside the city limits and opposite Parc Montsouris, Belgrand built the largest water reservoir in the world to hold the water from the River Vanne.

Ile de la Citte in 1771
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Paris-cite-vaugondy-1771.jpg

Ile de la Citte after Haussmann changes
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Paris-cite-haussmann.jpg

GrigorisSokratis

April 16th, 2007, 12:24 AM

Finally here you got an excerpt from the thread Athens a history of 8,000 years (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422757) depicting the 1689-1821 period of Athens in great detail.

Also as for its the city's character you don't have to forget that by that time the churches outnumbered the few mosques servicing the handful of Turkish living in Athens. To be more precise:

In 1672 a French Capuchin, Babin reported that in his day it was possible to enter the city without passing through a gate. He was astonished at the great number of small churches, some of which were made of marble. People told him that there were about three hundred. He thought that the number of Turkish mosques did not exceed eight or nine, but they all had minarets.

Later Ottoman Athens (1689-1821)

Fewer Turks returned after the Venetian occupation than had lived there before. Whereas before the Venetian occupation, throughout the 17th century Turks had formed one quarter of the population the rest being Greeks, afterwards the Turks came to about one tenth. Nevertheless, a small mosque was erected inside the ruins of the Parthenon, mostly out of fallen material. At about this time, a company of whirling dervishes took over the Tower of the Winds as their tekke. Their dances, taking place as they did in this unique building, became one of the sights of the city for foreign visitors, one frequently represented in engravings.

In the eighteenth century Athens began to acquire places of learning once more. In 1721 the Medresse, a Turkish religious sen1inary was founded by Mehmet Fakhri. It carne to be used as a general meeting hall for the Turks. In 1750 Ioannis Dekas, an Athenian who had fled with the Venetians and made a lot of money in Venice, built and endowed a school for twelve poor Athenian children in what is now Deka Street, near Monastiraki.

In 1759 the voivode Tzistarakis built the mosque which bears his name on the present Monastiraki Square. The workmen dynamited one of the columns of the Temple of Olympian Zeus to obtain high quality lime for the stucco. The Pasha of Chalkis had him banished for this act, even refusing a bribe of 16,000 piastres which the voivode offered him. The people attributed the outbreak of plague that year to the disease being released by the destruction of the column.

Western visitors continued to arrive in significant numbers for the first time, providing valuable information about the city at that time. Edward Gibbon described the inhabitants 'walking with supine indifference among the glorious ruins of antiquity.' The number of travellers increased after Stuart and Revett published their Antiquities of Athens in 1762. These travellers allow us to glimpse life in Athens in some detail. Thus Hans Christian Anderson reported seeing black Ethiopian slaves belonging to the Turks, who lived high in the caves in the side of the rock on the northern slope of the acropolis. Some of the cave entrances would be partially bricked up for added shelter. The Ethiopians used the ruins of the Temple of Olympian Zeus as a mosque. In 1760, Athens became a malikhane, state land belonging to the sultan, which he would lease to a tenant for his lifetime. The tenant would pay the sultan a lump sum based upon ten times the annual revenue of the property and exercise judicial rights over the inhabitants. His first project after appointment would be to recoup the money he had paid for the lease from the townspeople.

In 1772 Hadji Αli Haseki, an Anatolian Turk in the bodyguard of Sultan Abdul Hamid Ι, purchased the malikhane. After three years he was made voivode. Hadji Αli Haseki's general aim, quite simply, was to extort as much money from the Athenians as possible.

In 1777 and 1778, hordes of mercenary Muslim Albanians burst into the city. They had been called into Greece by the Turks to aid in the bloody suppression of a revolt in the Peloponnese instigated, but inadequately supported, by empress Catherine of Russia. Afterwards, many of them had remained to rob and pillage. In consequence, Hadji Αli ordered the building of a defensive wall, known as the Serpentzes, around the city. In places it fol1owed the lines of the walls of Themistokles on the north and east. This wall was of poor quality, barely three metres high and one wide, and incorporated much masonry from ruins and monuments The chronicler Dimitrios Kalephronas wrote: 'As soon as the work was completed, Hadji Αli presented the Athenians with a bill of 42,500 piastres for supervisors from outside, and they paid it. But the wall became a prison for the Athenians. He set guards at the gates, and the Athenians suffered much, until by 1784 'the curse of his rule was no longer to be borne.'

In 1785, Haseki was summoned to Constantinople for trial, together with those archons who had collaborated with him Nevertheless, five years later he was able to return. As a result: 'In 1791 and this year 100 there was nothing but oppression, with people fleeing the country and the Athenians fleeing in every direction. The years 1789-92 were the worst in the twenty-year period of Hadji Ali's rule.' The prisons were full as Haseki tried to extort money from the wealthier citizens. This was too much even for the sultan, and he was banished to Chios and beheaded three years later.

During these years, Athens became increasingly a port of call, or even a destination, for foreign travellers. William Rae Wilson was wrote: 'Ι crossed over in a small boat to Athens, the principal city of the Grecian empire, and put up in a small convent al the extremity of it, inhabited by a solitary monk, where, from the crowd of names of Englishmen written and cut on the walls, seems to be a kind of headquarters for Βritish travellers.' He was referring to the monastery of Saint Spyridοn. Near the end of the century John Bacon Sawry Μοrritt exemplified the ruthless attitudes of the aristocratic antiquities collectors of the period: 'It is very pleasant to walk the streets here. Over almost every door is an antique statue or basso-relievo, more or less good though all much broken, so that you are in a perfect gallery of marbles in these lands. Some we steal, some we buy.' Later he wrote: 'We have just breakfasted, and are meditating a walk to the citadel, where our Greek attendant is gone to meet the workmen, and is, Ι hope, hammering down the Centaurs and Lapiths... Nothing like making hay when the sun shines, and when the commandant has felt the pleasure of having our sequins for a few days. Ι think we shall bargain for a good deal of the old temple...'

He did not get what he wanted, but in 1799, Lord Elgin was accredited in Constantinople as British ambassador to the Sublime Porte. His agent, the Neapolitan Giovanni Battista Lusieri arrived in Athens to accomplish Elgin 's project of removing fine examples of ancient sculpture to Britain. The Βritish consul, Logothetis, was instructed to obtain permission from the Dizdar Aga. After six months negotiations permission was given in return for five guineas. Even so, he refused them permission to erect scaffolding, lest the workmen peek into the garden of his harem. Then on receiving news of the approach of a French fleet, foreigners were forbidden access to the acropolis.

Elgin then reportedly went straight to the Ottoman Foreign Ministry to request a firmαn in the name of Sultan Selim II, to override local officials, and obtained one. This was presented to the voivαde of Athens. On the basis of this authority, over the next few years the Parthenon, the Erechtheion, the Propylaea and the temple of Athena Nike were denuded of their sculptures, which were shipped to England. The painter Edward Dodwell visited Athens during the course of this work and wrote of 'the inexpressible mortification of being present when the Parthenon was despoiled of its finest sculpture, and when some of its architectural members were thrown to the ground.' Edward Clarke reported 'down came the fine masses of the Pentilican marble, scattering their white fragments with thundering noise among the ruins.' In recompense for the marbles, Lord Elgin left a clock to the citizens. Α tower was built to house in the bazaar.

The occupation of Italy by Napoleon in 1796 diverted the young noblemen on the Grand Tour to the friendly Ottoman Empire. Many were lodged by Spyridοη Logothetis. In 1798 he received John Twedell, in 1801 Edward Daniel Clarke. In the same year, Edward Dodwell and William Gell stayed with the Makri family on Ayias Theklas Street, in 1809 Byron and Hobhouse. Hobhouse observed that even the few Turks living in Athens: 'subdued either by the superior spirit of his subjects, or by the happy influence of a more genial climate, appears to have lost his ferocity, to have conformed to the soil, and to have put on a new character, ornamented by the virtues of humanity, kindness, and an easy affability, to which he attains in no other quarter of the Mahometan world.'

He supposed the number of houses in Athens to be between 1200 and 1300. The majority of the population was Greek in a 80% while a 20% of the population Turks and Albanians (of which two third Turks and one third Albanians). There were also seven or eight 'Frankish' families, under the protection of the French Consul. He thought the houses of the more important Athenians inferior to those of the wealthier Greeks at Ioannina or Livadia. The streets were narrow and irregular. Many had a raised causeway on both sides, so broad as to contract the middle of the street into a kind of dirty gutter. The bazaar was at a little distance from the foot of the hill, and had several coffee-houses, which at were crowded by Turks playing draughts and chess. It was formed by one street, rather wider than usual, intersecting another at right angles; and a little above where the two meet was the principal ornamented fountain in the town, supplied by a stream still brought in artificial channels or stone gutters from a reservoir under Mount Hymettus.

There were only four principal mosques with minarets in the city, although there were eleven places of worship for the Turks. The number of Christian churches was out of all proportion to the Greek population. Thirty-six were constantly open, and had services performed in them; but if the chapels which were shut every day except on the days of their particular saints were counted, there would have been nearly 200!

Hobhouse recorded that the voivode interfered little with the management of the Christians, and generally contented himself with the receipt of the tribute, collected by the archons. These were formerly eight in number; but at that time there were only five.

The regular tax transmitted from Attica to Constantinople was between seven hundred and seven hundred and fifty purses; but the archons, under various pretences, exacted twice as much; and as they never gave any account to the people of the manner in which their money had been disposed of, they did not fail to enrich themselves out of the difference. Threats, and sometimes punishments, were employed to wring from the peasants their hard-earned pittances.

The archbishop of Athens exercised absolute authority over the clergy, and had a prisοn near his house for the confinement of offenders, whom he might punish with the bastinado, a beating on the soles of the feet with rods, to any extent short of death. His place was purchased from the Patriarch, the cost later being recouped by exactions from the people.

The families of Westerners settled at Athens chiefly supported themselves by lending money, at an interest of from twenty to thirty per cent to Greeks merchants. They held balls and parties in the winter and spring in their own small circle, to which the leading Greeks were invited.

He reported that until within a few years previously, a journey to Athens was reckoned a considerable undertaking, fraught with difficulties and dangers; and that only 'a few desperate scholars and artists ventured to trust themselves amongst the barbarians, to contemplate the ruins of Greece.' But in recent years Attica swarmed with travellers' to the extent that 'several women had ascended the Acropolis' and that the city was soon to be provided with a tavern.

The region immediately to the north and north-west of the city, Hobhouse described as interspersed with small villages, hidden in shady groves. The Athenians were fond of the luxury of a summer retreat, had constructed kiosks, or summer houses, the lower part of mud and the upper of wooden planks, 'affording agreeable shelter during the intolerable heat of summer.'

'Some of these gardens were near villages such as Kifissia, at the foot of Mount Pentelicus, and Chalandri, in the same quarter; but the large tract of them was in the long line of olive-groves which form the western boundary of the plain of Athens. This district, watered by the Kifissos, in the neighbourhood of the site of the Academy, and the Kolonos Ηίppius, about twenty minutes' walk from the gale leading to Thebes, was to the south called Sepolia, and to the north Patisia, and was divided into extensive grounds allotted for supplying the city with fruit and vegetables, and are for the most part not cultivated by their owners, but let out to the peasants of the villages.'

The Κifissos, he described as a sort of ditch-stream, almost dry in summer, and in winter only a torrent passing through the olive-groves and gardens, each of which is watered. irrigation was 'effected by raising a low mound round eight or nine trees, and then introducing the stream through dykes, so as to keep the roots and part of the trunks under water for the necessary length of time. Each owner watered his grove for thirty or forty hours, and paid so much a tree to the voivode, or to someone who had leased the revenue from that officer. 'During that period the peasants constructed huts with boughs, and watched each other day and night, so as not to lose their own portion, or to allow to others an unfair abundance of the valuable water.' He several limes observed their fires among the trees; and, as they watched in parties, and heard the sound of their voices, and the tinkling music of their guitars, on returning to Athens from an evening's ride

The village of Κifissia was then the favourite resort Athenians during the summer and autumnal months. The only village in Attica adorned with a mosque: it contained about two hundred houses. In the middle of it was an open space, where there were two fountains, and a large plane-tree, beneath whose overhanging branches was a flat stone, which was carved into squares so as to serve as a draught board, around which the Turks could be seen sedately smoking, or playing.

At Piraeus there was a monastery, dedicated to St. Spiridion, and inhabited by three or four friars; a summer retreat and warehouses belonging to a Frenchman, who resided in the city in the double capacity of physician and merchant; and a custom-house, the collector belonging to which was a dealer in fruit and Greek spirits. While he was there he saw in the harbour two ships at anchor. One of them was destined to receive the spoils of the Parthenon; and the other had recently arrived with a cargo of human beings from the coast of Africa. There were between two and three hundred slaves in the city: chiefly females, the servants of the Turks, who had the reputation, he said, of being indulgent and kind-hearted masters. He asked a black girl who brought a duck to the Capuchin convent for sale, how she came to be made a slave She said that she was born in Egypt, and caught in the neighbourhood of Alexandria while she was at the well drawing water. The only other trade at Piraeus was the exportation of the productions of Attica, the chief of which was olive oil.

Records from the period of Florentine rule in 15th century suggest that at that time the hills around Athens were well wooded. Thus significant deforestation occurred under Ottoman 365 years rule (reforestation recovery begun in the 19th century). Engravings from this period also frequently show camels. Although not a major trading centre, Athens was connected with the rest of the empire by the camel caravan routes which once had their terminus at Belgrade.

Here you can see how most houses of the period looked like

This is the 17th century house that currently houses the Athens University Museum.
http://www.chem.uoa.gr/location/athensmap/Images/OldUnivmuseum1.jpg

NicolasII

April 16th, 2007, 05:48 AM

Wonderful photos :) I am curious if someone has or knows where i can find some old photos of Kallithea. This is where i live in Athens :) - i am inderested to see how Kallithea looked in the past.

Spartan X - regarding old photos of Kalithea, try the following:

The business is called Ellados Perigirisis.

located at Odos Kapodistriou 28 Athena

Tel 210-3302-795

They sell old black and white photos of greece (including major cities, towns and other settlements).

They also used to have a stall at the Sunday Markets in Zappeon Park (back in 2004)

Hope this helps:) :)

Spartan_X

April 16th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Thank you very much :)

Reaperos

April 16th, 2007, 03:15 PM

I went to their stall in zapeion park in 2005 aswell, amazing pictures, Andros had like 5 people living on it.. Someone needs to buy some of those and scan them, they are brilliant.

LEAFS FANATIC

April 16th, 2007, 03:20 PM

Spartan_X

April 16th, 2007, 03:49 PM

χαχαχαχα, πραγματικά ισχύει αυτό που λένε, οτι ο κόσμος είναι μικρός :) :) :)

OMEYA

May 1st, 2007, 10:48 AM

Παλιές φωτογραφίες από την Αθήνα αλλά και την Ελλάδα γενικότερα.
Απαιτείται υπομονή καθώς τα hyperlinks είναι διάσπαρτα στα διάφορα posts.
To thread έχει 4 pages. Διαβάστε προσεκτικά και τις 4, καθώς μπορείτε να δείτε εκατοντάδες φωτογραφίες.

Υπομονή και καλό browsing. :naughty:

http://www.stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479&start=0

Spartan_X

July 13th, 2007, 01:07 AM

Recently i scanned some postcards from the collection of postcards my mother had ( she passed away in 1991.. ). Most of them date from the early 50s to the early 70s. Only a few of them are from Greece... Soon i will upload many more ( the collection is around 250 postcards ), as i believe most of them are very interesting.

Here are three postcards. The first one shows Pireas ( The main port is in the background of the photo ) as it was in 1966 - thats what the date says in the back at least.
http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/22082/2005808804745878546_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005808804745878546)

The second one doesnt mention a date, but i believe it must be from the late 60s or early 70s.
http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/22275/2005803576699413582_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005803576699413582)

The 3rd one isnt from Athens... As the postcard says, the city pictured here is Herakleion, Crete. Propably in the 50s
http://aycu11.webshots.com/image/19330/2002042624557221946_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002042624557221946)

Thats all for now. In the near future i will upload more. Most of the postcards are not from Greece, so propably i will upload them at another section of the forum :)

NicolasII

July 13th, 2007, 02:23 AM

Great Posts.

Our politicians certainly have a lot to answer for. All this beauty and order forfeited for the sake of progress.

A Greek Taxi driver once told me that if Old Athens had not been destroyed by the uncontrolled development of the 60 and 70s, today the City of Athens would have survived all year round solely from tourism.....

UrbanCyclop

July 13th, 2007, 06:51 AM

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/A8hna1944.jpg

Wow, it used to be such a beautiful city!

skyduster

July 13th, 2007, 07:10 AM

the 1960s-1980s were truly a tragedy...but with determination and time, the city can be pleasant again; by renovating the few remaining historical disitrcts; by ensuring that new constructions have a timelessly aesthetic appeal in their architecure; by balancing between modernity, modern needs, and the charms of the past; and by adhering to a more human-friendly urban design. I think that this process has already started.

Demetrius

July 13th, 2007, 04:47 PM

Unfortunately, as long as greeks continue to regard that property equals more cement and more square meters , then nothing is going to change.
I was yesterday evening at Zografou district, one of the most "cementified" and densely populated districts in Athens. The neighbourhood is not considered to be a slump-at least by modern Athens standards, and mainly hosts students, people from the province and generally lower-middle class working people and civil servants. It is the perfect example of the neo-commieblock (or should I call it "neo-polykatoikies") phenomenon in Athens: Almost 50% of that district's polykatoikies is less than 15 years old. What happened in that neighbourhood and I can tell you by experience is happening all around Athens, is that developers are tearing down the old 60ies-80ies polykatoikies, only to make new ones, who are most of the times massier than the old ones, thus yielding more sq.meters, i.e. more money to the contractors. Furthemore with the recent real-estate boom in Athens (prices for housing went a schoking +300% over the last 5 years!) the developers are getting even greedier and no law or authority seems to be able to stop them!
I moved since 6 years from Athens Center (Amerikis square and 1 year in Gyzi) to Maroussi Suburb (It is considered to be a suburb but it is rather a normal urban housing area should european standards are applied to it) and each time I go to the central districts for work or leisure I get more and more disappointed by the ever increasing deterioration of living standards.
Modern Athens is a dead-end: On one hand you have cramming nouveau-riche "suburbs" -the Greek way and on the other an undefinable deteriorating urban patchwork which seems to regenarate its misery with new monsterous overpriced polykatoikies.
I could go on and rave for ages, as these pictures of the past have really hit a nerve....alas...

christos

July 13th, 2007, 07:37 PM

Αthens “Electric Railway”

Piraeus station(1926)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/1926-31.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/1926-21.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/1926-11.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/1926-1.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/19361.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/158BC1.jpg
Faliro station(1907 & 1920)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/bb43.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/bb44.jpg

Gordion

July 13th, 2007, 08:10 PM

Nice pictures.

skyduster

July 14th, 2007, 12:14 AM

Spartan_X

July 14th, 2007, 12:34 AM

Αthens “Electric Railway”

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/19361.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/158BC1.jpg

I guess that these railcars of the electric train where for use by the royal family or something like that... Are they preserved somewhere maybe?

pilotos

July 14th, 2007, 12:48 AM

Yes thats right those wagons are the royal ones, i think they are preserved at the ose museum or something like that :)

christos

July 14th, 2007, 01:59 AM

Δεν είμαι σίγουρος αλλά και εμένα μου φαίνεται πως είναι στο μουσείο του ΟΣΕ.Αλλες 2 φώτο από την βασιλική αμαξοστοιχια:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/b32.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/b13.jpg

UrbanCyclop

July 14th, 2007, 06:40 AM

Great pictures! Keep them coming...

Demetrius

July 17th, 2007, 08:38 AM

Demetrius, I'm curious about these buildings. Can you take a picture of them?

I cannot promise anything until I get my new Olympus!

Reaper-strain

July 27th, 2007, 12:41 PM

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/A8hna1944.jpg

Wow, it used to be such a beautiful city!

Imagine if these were all still there..

Giorgio

July 27th, 2007, 01:33 PM

IMO, these buildings are not that great. They look like the buildings of a village or small town.

That being said, they should have been replaced with grander architecture...not polykatikies...but that's another story.

neorion

July 27th, 2007, 01:44 PM

Still Giorgos it's the sum of them all together, the uniformity they created that gave the cityscape a sense of 'grandeur'. But I agree with you, it should have been replaced with something better, not worse....alas the post-war years weren't too good for Greece...and other places for that matter!!

Spartan_X

July 27th, 2007, 02:20 PM

If i am not mistaken this picture was taken by a allied plane shortly after the liberation of Greece from the Nazis. Around 1944 or 1945. It is interesting to see that among the many 1/2 story buildings some 3 or 4 story "polykatoikies" can be seen. During the German occupation nothing new was built in Athens, so all these buildings are from 1940 or earlier. It seems that the "polykatoikia" as the iconic Greek modern building started to make its appearance during the 30s or possibly late 20s.

Reaper-strain

July 27th, 2007, 02:47 PM

IF i am not insane, is that not the site for the new akropolis museum on the far right????
Therefore those are not polykatoikia, it is 30's deco/neo classical/.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/christos84/A8hna1944.jpg

Ares_K

July 27th, 2007, 08:48 PM

Reaper-strain is right.

These are not "polykatoikies", but mostly deco/neo-classical buildings.

It is the treasure we lost in the 60's and 70's for ever.

Can you imagine how Athens would be if the historical center was not stripped down of these gems?

Giorgio

July 28th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Athens still has a fairly in tacked historical centre around the hill.
I think some people need more gratitude for that because the small streets of Plaka are among the most beautiful in any European capital.

Must I post images from Plaka and Thission to convince you people or will you do the right thing and educate yourselves about the abundance of old and beautiful blocks in the centre of the city?

I am not defending the hideous crimes of the late 20th century but I am pointing out that maybe you guys should be grateful that a large portion of gorgeous European architecture is still in existence around the foot of the Acropolis.

Reaper-strain

July 28th, 2007, 06:12 PM

Please don't be so pretentious. I for one know the districts like the back of my hand. There is no 'Large portion of gorgeous European architecture' around the Akropolis. There are some nice streets, some very nice little house and one or two good examples of neo classicism. And what's all this we should be grateful all the time? If Athens was blitzed the way London or Berlin were and some of our architecture survived, than yes, we should be grateful. As it is, most of our city's good architecture has been lost to greedy uncultured developers. There is nothing to be thankful for, the opposite, we should be ashamed at how much has been lost and how much of what is left is still on the menu of developers.

Ares_K

July 28th, 2007, 06:15 PM

@ [GIORGOS]

There is only a very small number of thid kind of buildings surviving. Including those in the areas you mentioned.

People do not realise the extend of the damage and how beautiful Athens was. They can not, because they only have experienced the modern one and their mind can not possibly comprehend what happened.

My mother was born in Athens in 1933. She had seen how the city was and how it turned out to be. Beautiful roads turned to a sea of cement. Neoclassical buildings going down one after the other, block by block.

The historical center would be today one of the most beautiful in Europe if it was not for all this destruction.

DigenisAkritas

July 30th, 2007, 02:04 PM

@ [GIORGOS]
My mother was born in Athens in 1933. She had seen how the city was and how it turned out to be. Beautiful roads turned to a sea of cement. Neoclassical buildings going down one after the other, block by block.

This is communism for you, the commie ... during the civil war said that examples of grand baroque neoclassicism were a symptom of class division and of the rule of the bourgeoise. This kind of filthy talk inspired a generation of liberal leftist filth to spew their impure art and architecture onto everyone with the guise of a 'deeper meaning'.

"The two most potent post-war orthodoxies—socialist politics and modernist art—have at least one feature in common: they are both forms of snobbery, the anti-bourgeois snobbery of people convinced of their right to dictate to the common man in the name of the common man."

- R. Scruton

Ares_K

July 30th, 2007, 07:54 PM

Αν ήθελα ν' ανοίξω πολιτική συζήτηση, θα πήγαινα σε αντίστοιχο forum.

Είναι προσβλητικό να ποδηγετείς τις σκέψεις των άλλων για να θρέψεις τις δικές σου εμμονές.

NicolasII

July 31st, 2007, 02:45 AM

As it is, most of our city's good architecture has been lost to greedy uncultured developers. There is nothing to be thankful for, the opposite, we should be ashamed at how much has been lost and how much of what is left is still on the menu of developers.

Couldn't have said it better myself reaper strain....the sad thing is that the sins of the past continue to be repeated today.

Uncultured developers......? Greece's biggest problem is uncultured politicians....who are totally incompetant and unfit for public office.

AEK

July 31st, 2007, 05:00 PM

Nicolas II, olo parapona einai oi ellines vlepw. Kai poios ftaiei pou psifizoume autous tous anikanous politikous?

Almopos

July 31st, 2007, 06:07 PM

Greece's biggest problem is uncultured politicians

:fiddle:

UrbanCyclop

July 31st, 2007, 10:40 PM

I think instead of always blaming the government for their problems, many Greeks need to blame themselves. The general population can do a lot to improve a city without any help from the authorities.

Reaper-strain

July 31st, 2007, 11:40 PM

If london had the rule you could knock down any old house and rebuild it, there would be nothing here aswell. In this case it is totally the Govt's fault and perhaps the people's for not pressuring to change the rules.

Ares_K

August 1st, 2007, 03:34 AM

I think instead of always blaming the government for their problems, many Greeks need to blame themselves. The general population can do a lot to improve a city without any help from the authorities.

If you do not blame first the people who have both the power and the money, who are you going to blame... my grandmother?

Living in the US i am pretty sure you have heared about how politicians and lobbies can arrange laws that benefit them rather than public interest. Which is the case here.

People have the responsibility to react, but how much power do they really have, other than giving the good example in their every day life?

It is not as if we have all these politicians to choose from and we choose the worst...

There is a reason that good politicians do not get elected: they can not find any sponsors. So we are stuck with the rest that represent the worst part of our society. The corrupted one.

UrbanCyclop

August 1st, 2007, 04:54 AM

I didn't state that the government is perfect. In fact, the government can and should take care of countless city-related issues. I simply said that Athenians could do a lot more to improve their town themselves. Unfortunately, most choose to do nothing.

Greeks have a habit of relying on the government for everything. Nothing is ever their fault or their business. Yet, the incredibly filthy streets of Athens, hideous graffiti, derelict homes, and crumbling private apartment buildings are the direct result of the actions (or lack of action) of the city's inhabitants.

Ares_K

August 1st, 2007, 05:07 AM

.... Yet, the incredibly filthy streets of Athens, hideous graffiti, derelict homes, and crumbling private apartment buildings are the direct result of the actions (or lack of action) of the city's inhabitants.

You are blowing things way out of proportion.

Which is the opposite of closing your eyes but has exactly the same effect: failure to acomplish your vision.

Giorgio

August 1st, 2007, 06:36 AM

I cannot believe some of the stuff I am hearing!!
Poor Athens! She does not get enough credit even when she truly deserves it.

So do you guys like any part of Athens at all? Because most visitors, despite knowing it is no Paris say how beautiful Athens is.

I am not justifying anything because it hurts that Athens never got the chance to build grand boulevards and beautiful buildings on every street corner but I always try to look at the positives and I look at the glass as half full.

People are blowing the issues totally out of proportion and its pretty disgusting.

UrbanCyclop

August 1st, 2007, 06:38 AM

Failure to accomplish my vision? What the heck are you talking about? If I lived in Athens I'd begin by making sure that my properties are well-maintained (it doesn't take much money). Likewise, it doesn't take much effort to avoid throwing trash on the floor despite the ridiculous lack of waste cans throughout the city. Little things like that can go a long away to improve a city's appearance and quality of life. Unfortunately, too many people would rater complain, scream, yell, and avoid all responsibility.

NicolasII

August 1st, 2007, 08:28 AM

No civic pride ......that's the problem.

UrbanCyclop

August 1st, 2007, 08:39 AM

^ I agree 100%

Ares_K

August 1st, 2007, 09:09 AM

UrbanCyclop, you have an extremely distorted view of Athens that i can not explain. Logically i mean.

Demetrius

August 1st, 2007, 01:05 PM

Just a sidenote to your discussion: One has to live in Athens for a considerable time period and I mean reside, work, entertain and experience the city around the year(s) to really come in grips with her. The city, as it is now, a regional metropolitan area, has become something nobody really forsaw, nobody really took care of, nobody (with the exeption of minister Tritsis perhaps - back in the 80ies) really planned for and in the end, nobody really cared about.

The greater urban sprawl is distorted and disruppted in within its own uniformity:Chaotic expantion, with private not public interest in the foresight and a huge mollestation on the civic body of the town by everyone: Its citizens, its authorities, even its visitors.

And all the above, is well dressed and completed with huge ideological misconception by otherwise obsolete complections: "human scale", provisionism, vulgarity, provencialism.But these are general social discrepancies that merely reflect the deficiencies of modern Greece and its capital: A city that braggs about been the cradle of western civilisation but behaves like it is in a middle eastern purgatory (at least aesthetically).

I know I'm pretty sobering, but heck this is the city I live and feel daily. I'm really proud about what Athens was and could 've been, but I cannnot get over the comparisons with what Athens should be measured to. And believe me, once the comparisons are made they 're also quite sobering.

pn2006

August 1st, 2007, 02:33 PM

One big problem in Greece is that the political will does not exist to enforce and punish people that break the law.

E.g. it is rare for anyone to be punished severely for stealing land from the public after illegally building a house.

Usually all they have to do is pay a negligible fine and they keep the land and the house.

This is just the first of a long list of problems that Greece has and countries where things work better like the United Kingdom do not have.

The Greek character is the problem. I hope they are going to change now after half of Greece has been turned to ashes for $$$$ .

UrbanCyclop

August 1st, 2007, 10:38 PM

@ Ares_K, yes, Athens is just perfect and beautiful and the only responsible party for any negative aspects of the city is the government. Yes, of course.

Reaper-strain

August 2nd, 2007, 04:01 AM

It is not perfect, but it is not how bad as you make it out. Not in a million years. That is why you make greeks feel uncomfortable.

NicolasII

August 2nd, 2007, 06:24 AM

The City needs a strong leader ....with a vision. Athens hasn't had a strong leader since the time of Pericles in the 5th Century BC.

No one really understands or wants to deal with the Athens of tomorrow... It's all too hard for the current crop of politicians.(Mayors, Nomarches, Bouleutes). Sure, the public have a role to play, but it's the politicians and the entire government machinery that needs to change in order to bring about a cultural shift in how the average Athenian interacts with his/her city.

Change will come, but it will probably come too late....for Athens. Already former eastern block capitals such as Warsaw, Budapest, Prague and many others are charging ahead and remaking their cities to attract economic investment from the global market.

What is Athens doing...........? Answer: Well, the govt released a town planning statement/directive on 31 July 2007....for public comment.

If we were a serious nation, we would have already drawn up detailed masterplans for key growth areas (including high rise development in strategic locations) and gone out the global market chasing potential investors, but alas we are content to sit back and wait for investors to come to us.

Athens and Greece have one of the most enviable natural and cultural environments in the world, yet we still don't know or want to capitalise on our attributes in an environmentally sustainable manner.

UrbanCyclop

August 2nd, 2007, 07:00 AM

It is not perfect, but it is not how bad as you make it out. Not in a million years. That is why you make greeks feel uncomfortable.

Dude, we're Greeks talking among Greeks. It's not like I'm trying to put down Greece in some random forum.

Also, whay exactly did I say that sounds so bad? Isn't it true that many parts of the city are filthy? Isn't it true that countless buildings are in horrible condition? Why does that make you feel uncomfortable? Doesn't progress occur as a result of constructive criticism?

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

August 2nd, 2007, 12:53 PM

It is not perfect, but it is not how bad as you make it out. Not in a million years.
i 2nd that. Critism is good. But if you don't live in the particular city and you act like you know eveything about the city then i believe it is something else expect critism.

UrbanCyclop

August 2nd, 2007, 11:46 PM

Saying that a city is dirty and that many of its buildings are in a poor state is not acting "like you know everything about a city." I can see why no rapid progress is made in Athens.

Spartan_X

August 2nd, 2007, 11:58 PM

Μερικές φωτογραφίες ( η πίνακες ) που βρέθηκαν μετα απο πολύ ψάξιμο στο διαδίκτυο :nuts: ( ποίο εύκολο είναι να βρείς φωτογραφίες για τη Αθήνα του Οχάιο παρά για τη Αθήνα της Ελλάδας ! )

http://www.hotelsofgreece.com/athens/grandebretagne/photos/grande-bretagne3b.jpg

http://www.hotelsofgreece.com/athens/grandebretagne/photos/grande-bretagne3c.jpg

http://www.hotelsofgreece.com/athens/grandebretagne/photos/grande-bretagne3d.jpg

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

August 3rd, 2007, 12:34 AM

Saying that a city is dirty and that many of its buildings are in a poor state is not acting "like you know everything about a city." I can see why no rapid progress is made in Athens.
First of all there is a difference between the polite opinion and the rude opinion. I have likes and dislikes too. When i am going to make a comment, for example about a city, i will be watching what i am saying.
Why? Because i don't want to hurt the feelings of the natives.
That's why i don't use expresions such as "the incredibly filthy streets of Athens" or "many parts of the city are filthy" or "countless buildings are in horrible condition" neither i going to other sites and posting the ugliest pics i could find with the propotion to back up my claims.
Internet = no real life you know. If i were you ( a man who is not living in the city, a non athenian ) i would be more moderate with my comments.
Ask-watch-learn.

UrbanCyclop

August 3rd, 2007, 06:47 AM

Oh please, you're a little cry-baby who got offended because I said his city is filthy (which it is). Tough.

Cerises

August 3rd, 2007, 07:33 AM

UrbanCyclop you are entitled to your own opinion but I too think you are over stating things and you sound really overly critical. Athens is still a great city even with its problems. And most Athenians would not disagree with you on some points but it isn't all that black and white. I'm curious to know if there is anything you like about it?

neorion

August 3rd, 2007, 07:33 AM

EDIT:

Cerises

August 3rd, 2007, 07:49 AM

Oh please, you're a little cry-baby who got offended because I said his city is filthy (which it is). Tough.

I don't think he's originally from Athens! :lol:

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

August 3rd, 2007, 12:15 PM

Oh please, you're a little cry-baby who got offended because I said his city is filthy (which it is). Tough.
Big ego, you can't hundle a different opinion and you started the insults huh?

Lets see again what i said and what our Hellen friend from Texas reply:

First of all there is a difference between the polite opinion and the rude opinion. I have likes and dislikes too. When i am going to make a comment, for example about a city, i will be watching what i am saying.
Why? Because i don't want to hurt the feelings of the natives.
That's why i don't use expresions such as "the incredibly filthy streets of Athens" or "many parts of the city are filthy" or "countless buildings are in horrible condition" neither i going to other sites and posting the ugliest pics i could find with the propotion to back up my claims.
Internet = no real life you know. If i were you ( a man who is not living in the city, a non athenian ) i would be more moderate with my comments.
Ask-watch-learn.

Oh please, you're a little cry-baby who got offended because I said his city is filthy (which it is). Tough.

Also from this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=14305079&postcount=243) and from the link that Zoltar posted:

( beware the language in the following link, it's vulgar )

http://www.greeksoccer.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=235049535

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

August 3rd, 2007, 12:17 PM

I don't think he's originally from Athens! :lol:
How do you know?

Cerises

August 3rd, 2007, 05:03 PM

I said.... I don't think he's originally from Athens! Case in point I don't know for sure! :)

Reaper-strain

August 3rd, 2007, 05:59 PM

I think, and I do not want to offend anyone, but certain Greeks who were born abroad, America, Australia ect, not many, but a few, they like to believe their forefathers left Greece for a reason and that they are right to remain away from Greece and live in what they believe is a superior nation. Unfortunately for them, life is not as black and white and Greece is a beautiful country and this thread is an example of certain ex pat Greeks trying to justify their existence away from it. For example, 'filthy streets'. I walk from Sygrou to Piraeus, I go to all the worst parts of a city (what others tell me is the worst parts) because I enjoy the reality of a Mediterranean city and I still think Athens is not a filthy city in any respect. Infact it is far cleaner than many more high profile cities. The pollution in Athens is mostly airborne fumes from cars and lorries. It is in no way filthy. When I went to America I found New York filthy, Barceloneta in Barcelona is filthy, ect however Athens is never in a million years a filthy city. Those pictures on the other thread were of when there was the garbage crisis. A short term crisis that there have been worst examples of in Marseille, Naples and Rome for example. Athens in my opinion is a beautiful city in its own right and anyone who calls it filthy either has complexes about it other than those based on the reality of Athens or simply does not visit the city.

UrbanCyclop

August 3rd, 2007, 10:56 PM

I never stated that Athens wasn't a great city. My former account name was NMBS1 (check out the pics that I posted and the threads that are opened relating to Athens). It has countless wonderful attractions and a great history. Perhaps the words that I used (filthy, for instance) were a little strong. But with that said, I stand by the fact that Athens remains a dirty city (and yes, there are plenty of dirty towns around the globe. Does that make it OK?) Likewise, I maintain the fact that numerous buildings throughout the Greek capital are in a very poor state. Again, the inhabitants could, in my opinion, do more to improve Athens instead of blaming the government. On a last note, I should add that I visit Greece every year and contribute large sums of money to the Greek economy (something I would certainly not do if I didn't like the place).

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100007_27/07/2007_86188

Giorgio

August 4th, 2007, 01:57 AM

GrigorisSokratis

August 4th, 2007, 04:22 AM

Every city has its downs, for example take a stroll about some neighborhoods in Paris like the 20th arrondisement where things are not as beautiful as someone would expect when visitng Paris, or even in Vienna you will find such places in the southern suburbs, not to mention London or the Barrio Cassitar in Madrid or some parts of Phily in America or even in Coney Island or the South Bronx or the Jefferson Heights in New York, and did I mention that LA has a lot of really terrible hoods? or even in Miami if you go just 2 miles north of Downtown Miami to the Liberty City district or in parts of Hialeah things are not as beautiful as in other parts where the sun shines differently.

Finally Athens lacks that plenty of commieblocks other cities have, not to mention that this city doesn't know the notion of what a ghetto means.

neorion

August 4th, 2007, 09:32 AM

UrbanCyclop, saying Athens is filthy is as stupid as others saying New York and Barcelona are filthy. You shouldn't generalise and as Grigoris pointed out there are 'bad' neighbourhoods or parts to all big cities. However your points about citizens needing to take more responsibilty for their city, instead of blaming the government all the time and expecting them to 'fix' the problems are valid points.

Reaper-strain

August 4th, 2007, 04:16 PM

Finally Athens lacks that plenty of commieblocks other cities have, not to mention that this city doesn't know the notion of what a ghetto means.

Good point, I think Athens is one of the few cities in the west that can claim that.

Also@Gioяgos, I agree and compared to other med cities, Athens is actually extremely clean.

NicolasII

August 6th, 2007, 02:47 AM

Reaper-strain

August 6th, 2007, 01:09 PM

I am talking about a certain type of diaspora, do not be over sensitive, it exists just as do unattractive native Greeks. Most of the diaspora imo are vital to Hellenism and without them I for one would not be who I am today. Please be mature here and read what I am saying as an adult. Of the famous type of diaspora Greek I am describing above, there is only one I have seen on this whole site that fits that description with statements so wild (not just on this forum) that it can't be explained through any other logic than what I and others have already stated.

neorion

August 6th, 2007, 06:03 PM

Are you referring to me Reaper? If that's the case or not, I find your comments and threads you've started recently, leave much to be desired.

Just for the record Nicholas, After an italian-australian made a comment about greeks in australia, this is what Reaper replied.

This is what is known and for a reason. Their view of world politics is fish bowl like and they also think apparently their universities are incredible! The best greeks from outside Greece that I have met, ie the most open minded and least pretentious unlike our friend here are Canadian Greeks. Their, meaning Greek Australians... The Italian forumer made derogatory comments about Italians themselves akin to Greeks, which I wouldn't agree with, but he's a bit 'out there' and it was just a silly, flippant comment anyway. As an italian he should know better and it could of remained just a passing comment, but Reaper used it to lambast me and Greek-Australians in general. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion,, however wrong it may be and no doubt we have undesirable greek-australians, but to generalise, especially when the majority are well integrated and upwardly mobile...:nono: See (See) for yourself. Reaper said 'their', meaning plural and it's his immature generalisations that I objected to in the first place.

He then went on to throw a little tantrum and call me all sorts of things, but of course he's done that to others (others) as well. <---That thread started by him, seems to have been created so he could express his anti-Israeli sentiments and its turned into a no-holds-barred, pathetic flame-war. Another thread (thread) he started is STILL CARRYING ON ABOUT GREECE EURO 2004. Quite embaressing to see some Greeks still carrying on about that, to which one Greek-Canadian replied 'Oh for Christ's sake this again....'

Reaper likes to accuse others of all sorts of things, dangerous, poor method of arguing etc, which is exactly the way he comes across...,

Could this be Reaper-stain's view of the world?

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5008/zzzzzzzzcrybabymu2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

'an unattractive Greek'...as he would say.

Reaper-strain

August 6th, 2007, 06:19 PM

touched a nerve? It was not you I was talking about but to figure that out it would have involved you reading more than 1% of this thread. Pathetic, also nice to see you lifted what I said about your desperate arguement style and ingeniously turned it towards me. I believe you should have posted your posts before mine to see what brought my response, where you stupidly misquoted me when in reality I told a Turk who said Leonidas looked like Bin Laden, that the Turks were in China at the time:

I mean a few posts back you were telling the Turks to go back to China.

Then he showed a huge complex overflowing with pretentiousness when out of no where you came out with this classic when I successfully guessed where you were from through your obvious and clumsy posting style shown here before my posts to you:

Excusa, I minced my words. This is what you said Reaper-stain, to which another forumer called you a fascist.

Sorry, don't like fascists, ultra-nationalists, whingers who blame everyone else for their problems (complexes), especially Greek ones. And yes, I'm from Australia and you can only dream of the universities I've been to. They don't teach shit like you've said above...

:lol:

What we call new world envy here and definately one for the wall..

I could go on, but I was not bothered and told you good day, and the one who thought he 'touched my nerve' was infact the one suffering and appears to be still getting over it.

As far as my thread for Euro 2004 is concerned, it is not a celebratory thread as only a fool would guess, or perhaps a less educated individual would hope to bolster a low IQ arguement in need of some weight..:) it was about whether it should be seen as a fluke or not, a question that i knew would bring out the reality of most the members seeing it as a fluke. But this is very complex concept for some and I did not expect you to get the gist of it immediately as the words Euro 2004 were present and this can be very blinding to a certain type.

I will not post images like you did but that baby does appear more articulate than you and also has a superior take on world politics at any rate!

I will say again, good day sir.

Feel free to add a final bitch comment like you did before on the Turkey Election Thread and I will be prepared for the 3 day later cathartic bitch post to cleanse yourself of my arguments.

Finally to clarify, the problem here is with a certain type of diaspora Greek, one who has complexes about their parent's homeland, not only love. Even the moderator of this board is aware of it. It is indeed rare and I have only a few times come across it, but it definitely exists and is very unattractive/ For the record Neorion, again, I was not refering to you, but I can see how insensed you were from before and can clearly see why you assumed.

neorion

August 6th, 2007, 06:38 PM

Bitchy bitchy comments Reaper-stain!!!

Well, what can i say. Firstly, you brought up comments from another thread here not me :) , so obviously it did touch a raw nerve for you...

Successfully guessed where i was from? :lol: kudos to you!!

But you're a gunner Reaper, full of complexes and some issues to contend with, but let's leave it at that.

Just one thing I'll add, your 'articulating' comes across as 'intellectual wanking' as we would say here, so don't even try to sound complex. It's not working, take it from an english speaker.

kalinikta...

PS: How many times are you going to modify your post? :lol:

Reaper-strain

August 6th, 2007, 06:47 PM

The reason we are articulte over here is because we enjoy watching people like you copy everything we dispense and then regurgitating it poorly. I believe I accused you over bitchness a few times and yet that is your main comeback after I have already filled a post with it? Do you now see why it never fails? We are not trying to sound complex, this is just how you hear it. If I spoke like i wrote my dissertation by the looks of it you would need a translator.

Bitchy bitchy comments Reaper-stain!!!

Well, what can i say. Firstly, you brought up comments from another thread here not me :) , so obviously it did touch a raw nerve for you...

Where? :?

AEK

August 6th, 2007, 06:49 PM

Neorion is the one here who knows this kinda sarcastic staff.

neorion

August 7th, 2007, 08:24 AM

The reason we are articulte over here is because we enjoy watching people like you copy everything we dispense and then regurgitating it poorly. We, who is we? I'm talking about an individual here, namely you. I try not to generalise.

The rest of what you've said is more 'intellectual wanking' or 'verbal diarrhoea' as they say. Maybe it gets lost in translation or you're referring to a thesaurus too much, but when we use the word 'dispense' it usually means something else, like a chemist dispenses medicine. Stick to short, sharp simple English. You won't sound so pompous, fake and try-hard that way.

I believe I accused you over bitchness a few times Really? Please show me where? Not only a griniara but a pseuti too...

and yet that is your main comeback after I have already filled a post with it? Oh come on now. It's plain to see that you read my reply and then went back to modify your post, so you could have your 'comeback'.

Do you now see why it never fails? We are not trying to sound complex, this is just how you hear it. You don't sound complex and don't speak in plural. Some of the other Greek forumers can articulate very well in English, but not you. It's a pleasure reading those Greek forumers comments.

If I spoke like i wrote my dissertation by the looks of it you would need a translator. :lol:

kalinikta griniara...

Reaper-strain

August 7th, 2007, 02:17 PM

We, who is we? I'm talking about an individual here, namely you. I try not to generalise.

The rest of what you've said is more 'intellectual wanking' or 'verbal diarrhoea' as they say. Maybe it gets lost in translation or you're referring to a thesaurus too much, but when we use the word 'dispense' it usually means something else, like a chemist dispenses medicine. Stick to short, sharp simple English. You won't sound so pompous, fake and try-hard that way.

In the UK we can use the word dispense for metaphorical subjects as well you know, didn't you 'uni' teach how you can do that with English? :lol: Sounds like you have never even been to the UK to me. Again I apologise for scaring you with my language that someone like you can only believe is premeditated or through a thesaurus. I do not know why, but that to me makes you cute and I feel i little sorry for you, but in a nice way. Like watching a kid who can't open a CD case than when someone shows him, the kid is incredulous and thinks the guy who opened it must have been trained. I big AWWW for you and your superior uni's. :lol: :lol:

Really? Please show me where? Not only a griniara but a pseuti too...

It involves reading, the same thing you apparently couldn't do when I told you that ironically your nerves are raw and than you said I was the one to bring up our previous posts, I asked where, in bold and than you/..well you showed us your intelligence and how to be humiliated. :lol:

Oh come on now. It's plain to see that you read my reply and then went back to modify your post, so you could have your 'comeback'.

The best yet, do you have any idea how easy it is to make you look stupid? Look at the times. I was still finishing editing my post when you posted! :lol: Another AWWW moment where again, I must have gone back and edited my post to make that comeback sound so good, anything else is impossible! Don't worry you must have lifted my argument about what a stupid bitch you are, (and the first argument about how poorly you argue, lolol) by fluke, I am sure you did not just read my post and copy. :lol: :lol:

You don't sound complex and don't speak in plural. Some of the other Greek forumers can articulate very well in English, but not you. It's a pleasure reading those Greek forumers comments.

Please don't bring in others to your sinking ship, I know when you drowning you scratch like a rat at the vines on the bank, well you do, leave them out of this, but anyway, try and concentrate on your need to copy my posts in order to attempt to make an insult, and how raw and hurt you were by having to bring up this from 3 days ago after accusing me of doing it in probably the only original thing you have said, despite it being a weak lie. For the whole public, here we go again:

Well, what can i say. Firstly, you brought up comments from another thread here not me :) , so obviously it did touch a raw nerve for you...

Where file? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I will answer when you do. :lol:

:lol:

neorion

August 7th, 2007, 02:35 PM

YAAAWWWWWNNNNNNN!!!!!

stamata griniara

na sai kala file....:)

DigenisAkritas

August 7th, 2007, 06:14 PM

calm down, all of you - we are all Hellenes here, all of pure Hellenic racial stock.

Reaper-strain

August 7th, 2007, 06:34 PM

Of course, Greeks like to quarrel! I have not 1% hate or anger for neorion. We said what we had to and now back to beautiful Athens - our capital!

pinoslios

August 29th, 2007, 03:04 AM

athens doesn't have ghettos? i'm sorry, Ommonia is a ghetto. it's not on the level of south central or anything, but it's still a ghetto in my estimation, and in the estimation of many others too. does it make it less of a city because of it? no. all major cities have these problems. as for the look of the city, well it isn't the prettiest city in the world, that's for sure, but it has something special of its own; a beautiful gritty soul. i'd love to shoot it one day.

What we call new world envy here and definately one for the wall..

what exactly is 'new world envy'? sounds pretty daft. as for the universities, Australia has at least 2 ranked in the top 100 in the world; Greece has none. if you studied in England you have one up on us sure. :)

Finally to clarify, the problem here is with a certain type of diaspora Greek, one who has complexes about their parent's homeland, not only love. Even the moderator of this board is aware of it. It is indeed rare and I have only a few times come across it, but it definitely exists and is very unattractive/ For the record Neorion, again, I was not refering to you, but I can see how insensed you were from before and can clearly see why you assumed.

pray tell reaper, what exactly is this complex some diasporan Greeks have that forces them to invent self-serving justifications for being away from the 'motherland'? :-)

as for Australian Greeks being close minded, seriously, let's be real here. who is more likely to be close minded, a greek raised in a multi-cultural environment, or a native who had different cultures thrust upon him/her in the last 12-15 years with little to no real integrative mediation in the social fabric of life? there is more to being worldly than eating at a sushi bar in maroussi. how long have greeks had asian food in their cities again? :colgate: asian food, and culture, is a recent novelty for you Greeks. we, on the other hand, grew up with it. And this applies to other forms of experience with 'outside' cultures too. in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, when Greece was more of a provincial nation than it is today, many of 'us' were enjoying the benefits of cultural diversity. we were mixing, enriching our lives, and tranforming ourselves in the process. my current girlfriend is japanese, from Tokyo. i've dated more non-'Greek' women than Greek; in fact, the only Greek women i've dated were from Greece.(there is a reason for this i won't go into! haha) at least 80% of my friends growing up were from different backgrounds, spanning at least 12-15 nationalities. this was real, meaningful, consistent interaction. they were not bored tourists i had the occassional coffee with. :tongue4: j/k.

yes, it's true that a good number of Aussie Greeks inherited a peasant mentality that no amount of formal education was ever able to break. the same could also be said for natives too. i understand where you are coming from reaper, if this is the foundation on which your entire theory is built. let me be the one to tell you that it's wrong. you are obviously an intelligent person, but you are off the mark in this regard.

as for your comments about Aussie-Greek knowledge of world politics(fish bowl or whatever), this is unfortunately true. i'll give you that much. But it's mostly true of the younger generation. i.e gen Y mostly. the rest are generally well informed. keep in mind that tyranny of distance plays a role here too.

it's also interesting that you consider interaction with the greek diaspora to be 'valuable'. that's a plus, as both sides tend to misunderstand each other all too frequently. it's important for open, respectful and inventive dialogue to be endlessly created and maintained between Greeks from around the globe. i've certainly benefited greatly from my interaction with native Greeks, that's for sure.