There have been many threads on this issue of mass transit for Karachi, but for the first time a firm enough news item has appeared in the newspaper to warrant the creation of a new thread which is specific to the Karachi Mass Transit Project, Corridor I

Please discuss and post items concerning its development here.

KARACHI: Work on Corridor-I to start in August

KARACHI, July 1: The city government has decided to start construction of the much-awaited mass transit project Corridor-I, from Merewether Tower to Sohrab Goth, from next month.

Sources in the city government told Online that the City Nazim, Syed Mustafa Kamal, had directed the concerned department to complete evaluation of the proposals, submitted by two companies, by the end of July so that work could start on the project.

It may be mentioned that the project has been in pending for the last 20 years due to scarcity of funds and unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles.

The construction of a mass transit system in the city had been planned after a girl student, Bushra Zaidi, was crushed to death by a speedy bus in 1986, which was followed by the worst ethnic riots in the city taking the lives of many people.

Sources said the city government had planned construction of a light train mass transit system Corridor-I on build, operate and transfer (BOT) basis. Three companies had offered their proposals for the project.

A proposal by a Chinese company was dropped, as it had offered to build a light rail system on credit finance basis, the sources said.

The other two companies had submitted their offers on BOT bases. The M-Trans had offered to a build a monorail mass transit system while the International Development Company (IDC) had offered a light rail mass transit system.

Sources said the city government would prefer the IDC’s offer, as it had followed the city government’s tender condition, which desired a light rail mass transit system.

An offer of a monorail mass transit system is also under scrutiny, as the concerned company has submitted two options; one to construct the technology on Corridor-I, and the other to build it in other parts of the city, the sources said.

The city government has appointed a consultant to examine the financial and technical documents submitted by the local and foreign companies for construction of the Corridor-I.—Online


Source: http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/02/local4.htm

I ran a search for the companies that have been mentioned in the article. M-trans is the company that made the Kuala Lumpur monorail. Their website can be found over here:
http://www.monorail.com.my/mtrans/intro.htm

However, I could not find out anything about the International Development Corporation or IDC (what a rudimentary name!). If you can find any information about this company by running any search online, please post it here.

I think that more details about this project need to be given out to the public.

I wonder why they are not going for a Monorail based system, I still consider it to be a better and efficient system ..

However, I could not find out anything about the International Development Corporation or IDC (what a rudimentary name!). If you can find any information about this company by running any search online, please post it here.

Web Site = http://

Contact Details = IDC International Development Corporation (TM)
1090 Vermont Avenue N.W.
Washington 20005 USA
+ (1) - (313) 557-3322 Telefax
+ (1) - (530) 820 -6632 Agents
+ (852) – 301 - 43143 Asia
+ (33) – 8 – 2145 - 6469 Europe
internationaldevelopmentcorp@gmail.com
************************************************
IDC INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
1090 Vermot Avenue NW
Washington D.C., District of Columbia
United States, 20005
Phone: (313) 557-3322
Fax: (530) 820 -6632
Contact:
ING. CHRISTOPHER FELDMAN, Head of Investments
ALISTER TSAI, Senior Partner



http://www.infomine.com/index/suppliers/IDC_International_Development_Corporation.html


http://express-press-release.com/24/IDC%20International%20Development%20Corporation%20expands%20its%20%20activities.php

Ummm, why is their e-mail on Gmail? Anyway, I'm not too confident on the thought that's gone into this.. but I am glad they went with the light-rail system instead of monorail. Monorail requires a dedicated track and it would be difficult to integrate it into any expansion plans.. something which Karachi would definitely be looking at in the near future. Also, monorails aren't able to carry as many passengers as light/heavy rail and given Karachi's population, that is a big disadvantage. Karachi has chosen the right type of system, I believe, I just hope they go about it the right way. Light rail transit can be beautiful (Bilbao, Madrid) and it can be ugly (Toronto).

^^ very true

The International Development Corporation still seems sketchy. The CDGK needs to conduct a thorough background search into this.

The monorail system here in Malaysia is extremely good. It is efficient, and it is small enough to be integrated through the heavy K.L. skyline, yet it carries a substantial number of passengers. I hope the quality of the completed work by M-trans is similar to or even better than the one here.

I believe this is the website:

www.idcworld.com

^^ Excellent find Vazim! The IDC seems to be responsibel for the development of the Bangkok Metro system along with other projects: http://www.idcworld.com/bangkok.htm

So I guess this is a legitimate company as well.

I hope the CDGK can finalize on one of the companies and actually start this project now and not delay like the past 20 years.

I would opt for the Light Rail instead of the monorail on the following basis:
- monorails have limited load bearing capacity
- light rails have tremendous expansibility and can carry a lot more passengers than a monorail.
- The KL monorail can only travel at a top speed of 80kmph but on average, can only travel at 30kmph. At this rate, it would take ages for passengers to reach their destinations.
- Light rails can travel much faster and can carry a lot more people. This is necessary to bear the large load volume of Corridor I.

Therefore, for corridor one, I would opt for the light rail instead of the bubble-gummy monorails because it is a high density and high volume corridor and the amount of traffic it might experience would leave the monorails cramped.

I would think that the monorail can be used on the other mass transit corridors because they dont have such a high traffic load. But for this one, they should definitely go with the Light Rail.

One more thing: for the section of old M. A. Jinnah road, instead of being located above ground, the transit rail should be laid quasi-underground - or halfway below the ground - to preserve the heritage value of the area.

^^^ i was going to ask the advantage of light rail vs monorail. Thanks for explaining and 100% agree with underground option.

Yeah it would have to be built semi-underground anyway to have right-of-way and be an effective transport solution. Nobody would take light-rail if it was just a ride that had to stop at traffic lights and traffic jams like other cars.

Anyway, I'm not so sure idcworld.com is the same as the company cited in the article, and it could also be http://www.idcuae.com/, but I digress.

I don't know for sure, but my instinct tells me that the city government doesn't have its priorities straight here nor does it know exactly what it's doing. I'd probably feel a bit more confident seeing a big name like NESPAK or Meinhardt involved in this, along with federal money, to make sure this is going to be done properly. Building a transportation system involves a lot of money and a lot of commitment in terms of built land form, meaning it can be very tough to swallow if you make a planning mistake. I'd like to see them use the light-rail system to establish SOME sort of grid pattern in Karachi that can be built around.

Can anyone please post pictures of light rail transit system?

It's discouraging but still necessary to bring up the safety aspects monorail and light-rail in a city like Karachi. Transit corridors are attractive targets for terrorists/militants because they can shut down a whole city. On monorails its difficult to evacuate people because it's usually on an elevated single track.

The one advantage I can think of for choosing monorail is that it uses very little space. Personally, I don't like the look of a monorail.. if you look at the elevated metro in Delhi, it looks very ugly with all the wires and concrete and sticks out like a sore thumb. I much prefer smart-looking light-rail transit that has its own lanes. For anyone who lives in Toronto, think of the streetcars on Spadina Avenue (Chinatown).. I think that would be the ideal solution for Karachi, but that would require Karachi having to implement a traffic signal system, which I think is long overdue.

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/408/nottinghamexpresstransit1fn.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/7613/metrorail3tf.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1043/800pxirelanddublintram2tn.jpg

There's various ways light-rail can work which isn't reflected in these pictures.. mostly regarding the type of track and right-of-way the train has. Western cities can get away with trains sharing tracks with vehicles because they have a very comprehensive traffic system with signals, as well as patient drivers. Karachi would need a train with its own tracks.. like in the last image.

BTW.. first image is from Nottingham, UK.. second image is the METRORail in Houston, USA.. and finally the Luas system in Dublin, Ireland.

Good find, I wasnt too sure about the Light rail but the facts do make sense, it would be much easier to expand and use in the future.

Yeah it would have to be built semi-underground anyway to have right-of-way and be an effective transport solution. Nobody would take light-rail if it was just a ride that had to stop at traffic lights and traffic jams like other cars.


I much prefer smart-looking light-rail transit that has its own lanes. For anyone who lives in Toronto, think of the streetcars on Spadina Avenue (Chinatown).. I think that would be the ideal solution for Karachi, but that would require Karachi having to implement a traffic signal system, which I think is long overdue.


The Karachi Mass Transit concept is that of an Elevated Light rail. So it would be on railway lines passing overhead. No traffic lights would be necessary, and it would be independent of road traffic.


Anyway, I'm not so sure idcworld.com is the same as the company cited in the article, and it could also be http://www.idcuae.com/, but I digress.

This IDCUAE does not seem to be involved in massive infrastructural development projects. On the other hand, I also remember hearing that one of the contenders was an American company, which the earlier IDC is.

I don't know for sure, but my instinct tells me that the city government doesn't have its priorities straight here nor does it know exactly what it's doing. I'd probably feel a bit more confident seeing a big name like NESPAK or Meinhardt involved in this


Both IDC and M-Trans are reputable companies. If you check out their website, IDC is responsible for the development of the Philadelphia airport and the Bangkok MRT (which looks very spectacular by the way!). M-Trans is resposible for the monorail system in Kuala Lumpur.
On the other hand, NESPAK has no former experience developing mass transit systems, and I believe Meinhardt is already involved in some way as they have done some designing concering the KMTP. I will post pics soon.


I'd like to see them use the light-rail system to establish SOME sort of grid pattern in Karachi that can be built around.


Six corridors have already been established for the purposes of Mass Transit, and they network all of Karachi according to the transportation needs of the people.


On monorails its difficult to evacuate people in case of terrorism because it's usually on an elevated single track.

Good point! Another disadvantage of the Monorails. Whereas on elevated rail tracks, people can easily walk away to safety, on elevated monorail tracks, it would not be possible.

A light rail track design for the Karachi LRT by MEINHARDT. I think they are already involved in the structural designing of this project. You can find more info here: http://www.meinhardtgroup.com/content/Projects.asp?ProjectID=400&SectorID=-1&CountryID=13&Keywords=

http://www.meinhardtgroup.com/media/userimages/imageB3266491003.jpg


Also, the KMTP was conceived as an elevated light rail as far as I remember, more on the pattern of the Docklands Light Rail in London (the trains, of course, would look much newer I beleive):

http://static.flickr.com/74/165398622_7dfb9ff1a6_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/56/165398514_e319104dfb_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/58/165398491_fdbd9b5073_o.jpg

The Bangkok skytrain - an IDC design:

This is a ELEVATED LIGHT RAIL, not a Monorail

http://static.flickr.com/5/8616072_afc1669059_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/31/54256143_978ee8cd8a_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/6/77802998_2a3d86659b_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/48/158949180_9e28bcc20d_o.jpg

http://urbanrail.net/as/bang/mo-chit1.jpg

http://urbanrail.net/as/bang/viaduct2.jpg

http://urbanrail.net/as/bang/subway-phetchaburi3.jpg

The Kuala Lumpur Monorail - designed by M-Trans

This may be a sleek looking monorail, but notice these things:
- it is tiny! about the size of a bus, can carry few passengers
- travels extremely slow, only 30-90 kmph
- easy target for terrorists
- can not be integrated with the Karachi Circular Railway (KCR) like the light rail can


http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/KL25.jpg

http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/KL26.jpg

http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/KL28.jpg

http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/KL32a.jpg

Pictures courtesy: www.monorails.org

True that, but the only positive thing about Monos are that they do not require the space that Light rail would, as you can see in the pictures.

But at the same time if it cannot cope with the passenger traffic then it is virtually of no use.

its not extremely intrusive. I think its only large where theres lots of turnings and intersections to make with other tracks.
Take a look at these photos from ground level:


http://static.flickr.com/9/68980307_ad7901c054_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/56/151041398_c8e7d25180_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/53/138929282_ac64d7cc96_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/37/119531183_77c3db1774_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/48/131808149_582764657f_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/20/71701142_a2091c8221_o.jpg

The Karachi Mass Transit Plan

Picture found from some old govt. presentation:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8158/kmtproutes8ek.jpg

Transposed on a Google Earth map by moi:

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6489/kmtplayout9zi.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kmtplayout9zi.jpg)

Thank you swerveut, this was exactly what I wanted to see. I like Corridor I.. if they connected Corridor III to Corridor VI (on your map.. across the SITE industrial area) it would look a lot more organised and connected. Anyway, the map looks good to me overall.. it's always nice to just put the tracks wherever they'd be best but sometimes you have to taken the existing built form and financial costs into account.. and I think this map balances those needs well.

An ideal system is one where it doesn't require more than two transfers to get from any point A to point B in the city. Another thing.. I'd like to see them extend Corridor II (on your map) deep into DHA before it gets really built up. It would cost less and would be necessary considering future development.

I really have my doubts about a "light rail" or "monorail". for example if u look at a city like toronto, we have three different subway lines, but that is not enough. they are often crowded and and dont reach all they way in to the suburbs. considering the size of a city like Karachi anything "light" would be ineffective, since it would either have to be upgraded or replaced soon to accomodate more people. a proper subway that can handle heavy passenger loads rather than a "light" system or a "monorail" would seem like the more logical solution.

^^ Light rail is very easy to expand capacity-wise. It is an alternative to subways in places where subway construction is not feasible.

adil: Toronto is different because the expansion of the TTC is only possible via underground subway, which costs alot and takes alot of time.

As you would know about the YorkU extension, while light rail in Karachi would be upper ground (or on Ground in most areas) which can be upgraded anytime if needed.

Guys I agree in terms of funds the sudway would be more expensive.
Just one thing look at the size of the KL monorail from the inside. That is small, and this is meant to be a mass transit system. Trains that small would have a lot of difficulty handeling passenger loads that would be expected in Karachi.
Fahad, I dont know if u have ever been on the SRT. It is above ground and has trains the size of the KL monrail and its absolute hell is rush hours and that only serves scarborough (pop. 500,000, less than a 1/4 of TO's pop.). The TTC is proposing replacing it with a subway because they see SRT as incapable of handling the passenger loads.

if you think practially.... it is impossible to make subway sysem in karachi now .. there is no way they can dig up the roads... especially in downtown areas.... You guys are comparing things with the cities that have these facilities for almost 20 to 30 years back .. a that time these cities didnt have much population .. not much traffic.....

Back in karachi... there is a 2-3 hours traffic jam at any construction area.. we have examples of hassan square, liaquatabad, nazimabad.. where underpass work is going on.. traffic jams over there is regular routine... just think if they start making subway overe there whole karachi is gonna jam packed ... becasue of no alternate place to drive.... so in my suggestion anything elevated will be a good idea..

it has to overground where areas are crowded in morinigs and evenings so there should be not bad affect on roads....
and should be on ground in suberbs....

so whats the final plan, underground, on groun or over ground.

im not sure about underground thought, it surly will be the best option as karachi land is allready occupied but i heard a long time ago when this project was purposed testing was done to make it underground but they couldnt as the mud in the ground was to dry.

we can't risk going underground... our loadshedding...terrorism etc

we can't risk going underground... our loadshedding...terrorism etc

Delhi exactly had the same problem, i.e. loadshedding, terrorims, yet they opted to go underground and above the ground.

Karachi should use both options according to the area, in congested areas underground and open areas above the ground.

i think we should just go overground and on ground....
try on 1 then see how it goes...

Delhi exactly had the same problem, i.e. loadshedding, terrorims, yet they opted to go underground and above the ground.

Karachi should use both options according to the area, in congested areas underground and open areas above the ground.

thats the main problem .. how the hell they gonna go underground in congested areas.. becasue for underground they need massive digging ... and if that happen people of karachi will face problems for like 2-3 years.. because in the history of pakistan.. none of the projects completes on time .... I think over the ground is the best choice for congested areas...

thats the main problem .. how the hell they gonna go underground in congested areas.. becasue for underground they need massive digging ... and if that happen people of karachi will face problems for like 2-3 years.. because in the history of pakistan.. none of the projects completes on time .... I think over the ground is the best choice for congested areas...

I'd rather the people of Pakistan suffer for 2-3 years and benefit in long run for 20-30 years. Whatever happes, you have to face the hardships of digging and contrcution. Investing in underground mass transit in congested areas e.g. Saddar is going to be quite beneficial in the long term.

I'd rather the people of Pakistan suffer for 2-3 years and benefit in long run for 20-30 years. Whatever happes, you have to face the hardships of digging and contrcution. Investing in underground mass transit in congested areas e.g. Saddar is going to be quite beneficial in the long term.

you might would becasue you are in Kuala Lampur .... and thats 2-3 years is just an example .... 2 kilometer flyover take ages there to get complete... and you are talking about going underground ..where you will fine a lot of unplanned utility lines... and other stuff...

for underground station u need a big space underground to make stations , tracks and all that .. in my knowledge not possible in saddar area.. the widest road in saddar is about 2 lanes and after that there are store on the sides. from where they gonna get space for your undeground .

underground does not mean only cut and cover. you can also use boring machines. lot more expensive though. on average underground is almost 4 times as expensive as overground and twice as much as elevated. most mass transit systems in big cities need a mixture of the three, depending on the ground situation

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/408/nottinghamexpresstransit1fn.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/7613/metrorail3tf.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1043/800pxirelanddublintram2tn.jpg

There's various ways light-rail can work which isn't reflected in these pictures.. mostly regarding the type of track and right-of-way the train has. Western cities can get away with trains sharing tracks with vehicles because they have a very comprehensive traffic system with signals, as well as patient drivers. Karachi would need a train with its own tracks.. like in the last image.

these look more like trams rather than light rail. more common in smaller cities of europe

you might would becasue you are in Kuala Lampur .... and thats 2-3 years is just an example .... 2 kilometer flyover take ages there to get complete... and you are talking about going underground ..where you will fine a lot of unplanned utility lines... and other stuff...

for underground station u need a big space underground to make stations , tracks and all that .. in my knowledge not possible in saddar area.. the widest road in saddar is about 2 lanes and after that there are store on the sides. from where they gonna get space for your undeground .

I guess if you put it that way, you are right. But then the 24Km elevated expressway is also being built on Shara-e-Faisal..which to me seems pretty packed as it it. If we want to change Karachi, we're going to have to totally renovate and refurbish old rundown places such as Saddar. Yes at the start it may pose loads of difficulties, but I still dont see how we can just leave Saddar lying in the state of slum it is at the moment. It may have been the heart of Karachi ONCE. But now it is an embarassment and a headache. We need to put all our efforts and bear the pains for a few years to see a brighter future for Karachi.

adil: Yes I have been on the SRT, it is pretty cramped and definately sucks!

well like i said, its impossible to go over ground in karachi, its way to congjusted and packed out especially in the areas they plan to make it, the only solution would be underground.

to make it over ground it would cost a fortune just to tear down the buildings, under ground is usally expensiver but it will probably be cheaper and easier as you wont have to tear down any buildings or replace residants, except for the places where you make your stations.

you might would becasue you are in Kuala Lampur .... and thats 2-3 years is just an example .... 2 kilometer flyover take ages there to get complete... and you are talking about going underground ..where you will fine a lot of unplanned utility lines... and other stuff...

for underground station u need a big space underground to make stations , tracks and all that .. in my knowledge not possible in saddar area.. the widest road in saddar is about 2 lanes and after that there are store on the sides. from where they gonna get space for your undeground .

2-3 years is nothing. I think Delhi metro took many years to develop and believe me Delhi is much more congested than Karachi and traffic really suffered during construction and probably still suffering as it has some parts of the metro underground. Further as long as it is underground whether its one or two lane road on the ground, it doesn't matter. You only need space like a shop to go downstairs and everything will be underground.

I believe we should sacrifice our today for a better tomorrow. :)

these look more like trams rather than light rail. more common in smaller cities of europe


yep, probably right. I have seen a similar tram system in Frankfurt, although not as modern as in the picture, very noisy, disturbs the traffic on ground and an eyesoar...

Whoa!!! What's with the Bangkok rail??? Such huge pillars for such a small train! What gives?

well like i said, its impossible to go over ground in karachi, its way to congjusted and packed out especially in the areas they plan to make it, the only solution would be underground.

to make it over ground it would cost a fortune just to tear down the buildings, under ground is usally expensiver but it will probably be cheaper and easier as you wont have to tear down any buildings or replace residants, except for the places where you make your stations.

Over ground light rail on Corridor I would just be passing on top of main roads and then following the length of the M. A. Jinnah road on the median. Therefore no buildings would have to be cut down for its construction.

Also, I found a possible plan for the Corridor I, and it says that part of it is supposed to be elevated, whereas part is supposed to be underground, which looks to me to be the best option (second one being all elevated).

Like Bombay boy said, boring machines can be acquired for the purposes of underground construction that result in less chaos overland. But for these, Karachi's notoriously unplanned utilities network would have to be meticulously examined so none of those lines get cut.

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/2237/kmtpcorridori5rp.jpg


Whoa!!! What's with the Bangkok rail??? Such huge pillars for such a small train! What gives?

If you look carefully, those pillars are only massive in places that they are loaded from one side. Thats for structural engineering. Other places where the train is running directly on top, the pillars are less massive.

^ It would be crazy to dig Karachi's roads, even now when roads, flyovers, underpasses are constructed a large area of Karachi sufferes due to broken telephone, electric lines and water and sewerage lines.

It would certainly cost alot aswell, but the only positive thing would be that we would finally know where the lines exactly are and assign them to one side so that the same thing doesnt happen in the future.

They actually are doing that now, with shifting of these lines on the left side of the road, which left im not sure!

Although most congested cities build light rail lines underground in the city center I somehow doubt that they will do that in Karachi, simply because the cost of going underground is higher and much more disruptive.

Overhead tracks can be built much quicker and with less disruption because the concrete structures can be built in a factory and shipped to the site for installation.

Karachi has very wide streets and if the line is just following the street then it will be hard to justify digging underground.

Many cities forbid overhead tracks because of esthetic reasons. However in Karachi a well designed and built overhead line will probably enhance the look and give the city a more "advanced" image.

Future lines that cut across buildings and don't follow the roads may have to be built underground.

on ground and overground would be better bcz the traffic in karachi,
road digging and then taking long time to rebuild them will affect the city very much so this would be faster and less trouble causing for the citizens of karachi...

Speculations aside,

lets just hope (and pray) that this project doesnt get delayed again. We must keep the pressure on the city govt. Write to them, to newspapers, spread word around, etc.

thats a good idea...huh..

on ground and overground would be better bcz the traffic in karachi,
road digging and then taking long time to rebuild them will affect the city very much so this would be faster and less trouble causing for the citizens of karachi...


why would you even dig the roads? :scouserd:

pakistani constructors do all sort of crazy things to take long time and get more money out of it....
for instanse if you are taking the rail network and crossing point on the some main road which is busy all the tiume would be bad ....

There's a lot of uninformed discussion. Some clarifications might help

1. Light rail is a term used in the US and parts of Europe for modern trams, which might have some right of way of their own but at other places, may share the road with other vehicles. Cities like Dallas, Houston, San Jose etc. built tram systems with modern rolling stock and modern signaling, but call them light rail. What is being proposed for Karachi (and was in the proposal in the 1990s as well) is actually a full metro, only a lighter version of it. Asian cities like KL and Manila have what are technically called LRTs but not like the US/Europe versions but full-blown metro lines completely separated from road traffic. They are the models one must have in mind when thinking of the Karachi light rail.

2. The Bangkok skytrain was not constructed by IDC, but as a turnkey project by a Siemens-led consortium (of which IDC was not a component). The rolling stock was supplied by Siemens and it was also involved heavily in the construction. From the IDC website, all that can be seen is the claims by one Dr. Michael Cobb (who it seems is the founder and managing director, with no indications that the company has any other employee) of being 'associated' with the project. It is not clear in what capacity. It is not a 'reputed' company as some people are making it out to be. Anybody can come up with a website and claim to be "associated" with a project even if all one did was to prepare some drawings for the project on a contract basis. I would not put too much weight on this. Even on this website, they only claim to be consultants. They do not have any track record of undertaking a major public works project.

3. In any case, the name of the company in the Karachi project is 'International Development Corporation' and not 'International Development Consultants', though that may just be an error in the press. I have not heard of either company in relation to any significant project.

4. M-Trans on the other hand has a proven track record of building the Kuala Lumpur monorail and now the Putra Jaya monorail, besides bidding for other projects elsewhere. It basically came into existence due to the determination of then Malaysian PM Mahathir, after the Japanese consortium led by Hitachi backed out of the project during the Asian Financial Crisis. They have experience in building the transitways, in manufacturing the rolling stock and in regular operations and maintenance. They are a credible player, unlike the unknown IDC.

5. The claim was made by somebody that monorail has an average speed of 30 kmph and a top speed of 80 kmph and that was seen as a drawback. Drawback compared to what? The average speed of any metro, whether based on monorail technology or regular rail technology is about the same. If a light rail is built, wtih stations spaced 1kms apart (the usual spacing in an urban area), the average speed of a metro is also about 30kmph and a top speed of 80kmph. That is what it is in Singapore and Hong Kong and Paris and Montreal. So, really speaking, that is not a major constraint of the monorail.

6. Capacity, on the other hand, might be more of a point of comparison. Usually, monorail has been used on lower capacity routes, but then its capacity is lower than that for heavy rail, not elevated light rail. If on the other hand, what is being planned is a light rail in name and a heavy metro in reality (like the LRT lines in KL and Manila), capacity would be higher in the LRT than in the monorail. Of course, even monorail can be built for higher capacity by the simple idea of having more coaches per train. Essentially, the technology is not a constraint to the capacity when comparing monorail to light rail. In any case, from what I have studied of Karachi's needs, the capacity of a light rail and monorail would both serve its needs pretty well.

7. I don't think the expectations of starting construction by August are realistic. Even if the contract is signed today, which seems unlikely, there is a lot of work to be done before significant physical construction work can begin. There is financing to be arranged, land to be acquired, various clearances to be obtained from a multiplicity of Government agencies, engineering designs and drawings to be completed, sub-contracts handed out for civil works, signaling, rolling stock, fare-collection etc., employees to be recruited and trained, machinery procured (this is particularly time consuming if it involves underground sections) and utilities (e.g. water/sewerage lines, underground cables) shifted . I would assume that the best start date for construction to begin, even in the most optimistic scenario, is 12 months from the date of final award of contract. In the realistic scenario, more like 24 months. It is a pipe dream to expect construction to begin a month after awarding a contract. I am not even factoring in the specific complexity of the project along M.A.Jinnah road (due to the high volume of road traffic and presence of several heritage structures).

The recommended option would be the one in the map posted above (i.e. underground till Teen Hatti). An elevated structure along the heritage part of this line would be a disaster from the point of view of conservation of the city's arhcitectural heritage.

Tunnel-boring machines vs. cut and cover are not true substitutes that one can choose from. The cost differs a lot (boring of rocks is usually more expensive) and it also depends on the type of soil (tunnels cannot be easily bored through loose substrata). For instance, in Delhi's line 2, which is entirely underground, they used a combination of cut and cover and tunnel boring. Delhi is fortunate to be built mostly on solid rock, so they could use rock boring machines where cut and cover was not an option (e.g. in the heritage areas of Lutyen's Delhi and in areas like Old Delhi, where the line did not follow the alignment of a road and hence had to go under houses and shops). Karachi unfortunately has loose substrata rather than solid rock in many places. Hence, rock boring machines may not be an option on this line, unless they go really deep (adding to costs).

Finally someone who knows what he is talking about. I was just thinking of PM'ing you and requesting you to provide some insight.

Now then, whose up for hunting some government officials? :naughty: :guns1:

Sridhar, thanks for your posts.

I agree that IDC seems like a flaky company. Unfortunately there's a history in Pakistan of non-established foreign companies taking advantage of the gullibility of government employees and landing deals. Then they go with that contract and try to line up genuine investors. IDC sounds like one of these. Due diligence is lacking as can be seen with the recent Pakistan Steel deal cancelled by the courts.

However the advantage IDC appears to have is their proposal for a grade separated light rail which the City seems to prefer. According to my research the only advantage this has is the ability to run underground as well as overhead. However I somehow don’t think that they’ll be going underground, at least for now. The best proposal will be useless is the company is not genuine.

In the past Karachi has received many proposals, including one from a Canadian company which had arranged the financing but because of the lack of political will nothing came about.

Now for the first time in decades there’s a city government that is serious about going ahead with the project. I just hope they make the right decision. A high capacity monorail may be quite suitable for Karachi but M-Trans need to convince the City.

BTW, monorails can go underground too.

An example from Tama in Japan where the monorail is shown coming out of a tunnel section:

http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/Tamar.jpg

^^ Sridhar, are you involved with the railways in any sort of way? I commend your in depth knowledge and your coming forward to participate in this thread. It would be cool if you can also introduce yourself in the Get to Know thread in the Gup Shup sub forum in you dont mind.


Your arguments about the monorail are valid. However, there is one big consideration against implementing monorails in Karachi:
If an LRT system is used, it can be integrated with the already present circular railway system more easily because both systems run on railway tracks. Even if there is a gauge difference, it might be easy to solve using one more line of rails or something such.

On the other hand, an advantage of monorails that hasnt been mentioned so far is:
- they are relatively MUCH more vibration free that LRT's so they have less noise pollution levels.


The Japanese monorail you have posted seems to have more carriages than the tacky bubble-gum monorails of Malaysia. My biggest concern is capacity constraints. The area that is served by Corridor I is likely to expand in traffic volume VERY FAST and very soon. High capacity trains would be needed, and I think such can be best achieved by the use of LRT's.

Also, yes fellow-forumers, PLEASE WRITE TO THE CITY NAZIM and send a letter to the newspapers, or any media you can think of. One email address is: letters@dawn.com

We as citizens of Karachi must take this issue in our own hands now that we have more knowledge and try to make sure we are not getting the slip this time by the city authorities.

Another place to argue this over would be http://karachi.metblogs.com

PLease be active.

I am not new to the forum, hence there is really no need for me to introduce myself. I am not a railway person, but do have an interest in all kinds of infrastructure issues. I also have a long-standing interest in Karachi's urban transport situation, and even created the first map then available on the internet for the circular railway in both English and Urdu. Since then, I am quite familiar with Karachi's urban transport needs even though I have never set foot in that city.

One clarification - I am not saying that the monorail is necessarily a better option for Karachi. Only that the arguments made in the thread till now are not necessarily valid.

BTW, higher capacity of heavy metro (not LRT, which has similar capacity to monorail) comes at about 3 times the cost for an elevated metro line. So it is not an apples to apples comparison.

KARACHI, July 7: City Nazim Syed Mustafa Kamal has stressed the need to start immediate work on six corridors under Karachi Mass Transit Project.

“At present, Karachi is faced with grave transport problems and only solution to get rid of them is mass transit corridors and signal-free roads,” he told a meeting here on Friday. The meeting was attended by DCO Fazlur Rehman, EDOs and other officials.

He said that the transport issue would stand resolved to a great extent in a couple of years.

Besides, signal-free corridor from Site to airport, work is expected to start in August on 17km Mass Transit Corridor-I from Sohrab Goth to Tower which would have 22 underpasses and bridges.

He said work was also about to start on elevated expressway from Quaidabad to Jinnah Bridge while traffic problems would also be greatly solved with the construction of Lyari Expressway and Northern Bypass.

However, he said that the fast expansion of metropolis required all thoroughfares signal-free and the city government had started working in this regard.

He said that the city government would also construct 100 bridges for pedestrians. During the current fiscal, he said, 50 such bridges would be established at a cost of Rs300 million.

Pointing out that the city district government of Karachi has launched fast development process, Mr Kamal claimed that in a very short period its performance had been the best among all the district governments.

STADIUMS: Work on the construction of six stadiums will start from Saturday when City Nazim Mustafa Kamal will lay the foundation stone of the first stadium in Sector 11-1/2 of Orangi Town.

The city government will construct six stadiums in various parts of the city at an estimated cost of Rs580 million.

The foundation stone of second stadium will be laid on Monday in Sector D-3, UC-5, Quaid Avenue Road, Baldia Town.

Besides, construction work on stadiums will also be undertaken in Federal B. Area No 10, Korangi No 5 and North Karachi.

Mustafa Kamal said that the city government would take all possible steps for providing sports and other healthy recreational facilities in the city.

Dawn Online Edition July 08, 2006

Link (http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/08/local17.htm)

Work to start on mass transit corridors in 3 wks

KARACHI: City Nazim Syed Mustafa Kamal said Friday that the transport system would improve in a year and a half and work would start on a 17-kilometre Sohrab Goth-Tower Mass Transit Corridor by next month. The construction of 22 underpasses and bridges would be completed and 14 bogies of light trains would ply it.

"At present Karachi is facing grave transport problems and the only solution is mass transit and signal-free roads," he said, adding that there were many mass transit corridors in Karachi but six were the most important.

Work on the Quaidabad-Tower Expressway would be initiated soon. After the completion of the Northern Bypass and Lyari Expressway project the traffic situation would improve. He added that Karachi was developing at a fast pace and required signal-free highways.

The construction of bridges for pedestrians is underway and fifty of them, at a cost of Rs 300 million, would be completed by this year.

DailyTimes Online Edition Saturday, July 08, 2006

Link (http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\07\08\story_8-7-2006_pg12_4)

So I guess whoever suggested an LRT with large number of bogies was right. As mentioned by the City Mayor Mustafa Kamal there would be an LRT with 14 Bogies! Thats allot of bogies!

Sridhar what do you think about this?

the hell does Mustafa Kamal mean by underpasses and bridges??? Is it an AT-GRADE rail system???

And I STRONGLY OPPOSE Quaidabad to Jinnah Bridge Expressway plan.
- it will ruin all the central historic district
- KMTP Corridor I is passing through EXACTLY THE SAME ROUTE!! whats the use of that expressway then??

the hell does Mustafa Kamal mean by underpasses and bridges??? Is it an AT-GRADE rail system???

And I STRONGLY OPPOSE Quaidabad to Jinnah Bridge Expressway plan.
- it will ruin all the central historic district
- KMTP Corridor I is passing through EXACTLY THE SAME ROUTE!! whats the use of that expressway then??

I think thats what its going to be. Because if they make it AT-Grade then they wont have to acquire as much land as they would need for an elevated system and we all know they are not going to go underground. And the only way they can start work on it in a month is if they are making it AT-Grade.

This will definately not be in Karachi's best interest! As you said it will prove to be a scar on Karach's Historic District and it will run paralell to the Expressway, so whats the use?

Another question that pops into my head is that how are they going build this system AT-Grade on roads which dont have proper sidewalks and no greenpatches in the middle, because as far as my understanding is concerned, thats the land they would most probably use to build an AT-Grade system?

Considering how incompetent our authorities are, they might just end up running PR Bogies on the damn system :runaway:

Quite horrific news, I hope the Mayor wasnt drunk when he said those things, it would be better if the City Govt. provides a website or such indicitating what they exactly plan on doing.

Because if they make it AT-Grade then they wont have to acquire as much land as they would need for an elevated system

shouldnt it be the other way round? elevated only needs the space occupied by the pillars, while at-grade would mean a lot more land needed. unless its a tram system with cars using the same space. not good enough for karachi imo, it should be getting a proper mass transit system for a city its size

I don't think an at-grade line is feasible along this route. M.A.Jinnah Road is a high-traffic road, without the luxury of additional space to allow for the railway right of way. At-grade lines divide the city, with a need for grade-separators for traffic to ply from one side to the other.

A combination of underground and elevated lines is the best option (underground in the city center and heritage areas, elevated elsewhere). It cannot be that hard. If Calcutta and Delhi can afford underground metro lines with Bangalore starting construction on its own underground section and Mumbai, Hyderabad and Chennai planning it, surely a city of the size of Karachi can. Specially when it has zero mass transit today (discounting the circular railway), the need for transit is so high that the cost will be well worth it. It is only a matter of conjuring up the political will for it. And let me add, the city Government cannot do this on its own. The federal Govt. would need to step in to build the minimum infrastructure the city of the size and importance of Karachi deserves.

shouldnt it be the other way round? elevated only needs the space occupied by the pillars, while at-grade would mean a lot more land needed. unless its a tram system with cars using the same space. not good enough for karachi imo, it should be getting a proper mass transit system for a city its size

True! I was visualizing a different part of Karachi in my head. I was thinking of North Nazimabad where I hail from. In N. Nazimabad the roads are very wide and its well planned. All the main roads in N.Nazimabad are divided with green belts. So in N.Nazimabad there is ample land for an AT-Grade system however at other places there isnt.

I agree with Fahadkhan, there should be a website which displays exactly what it is that our government intends to do for Mass Transit in Karachi. I think we should write to that show on GEO called MetroLite. They report on all the projects going on in Karachi.

When I saw the Mayor on the "Nazim Online" Show on Aaj TV a month or so back, I swear he said there would be an elevated system.

Dont know what happened now, but I cant really imagine seeing Pakistan Railway cars travelling in the middle of the road all over Karachi.

When I saw the Mayor on the "Nazim Online" Show on Aaj TV a month or so back, I swear he said there would be an elevated system.

Dont know what happened now, but I cant really imagine seeing Pakistan Railway cars travelling in the middle of the road all over Karachi.


That is exactly what I am thinking! Scary thought :runaway:

^ I went to drop off my Grandmother at the Cantt Railway Station in Karachi, I tell you it was a horrific sight, the railways is in such a bad shape in regards to their cars, I cant even explain.

And the KCR rail also passed through there during my short visit to the station, and it has the same railway cars, except that its of a different colour.

I mean sincerly we dont expect Bullet trains or really modern trains on the Sohrab Goth-Tower route, one can only imagine the PR cars.

^ I went to drop off my Grandmother at the Cantt Railway Station in Karachi, I tell you it was a horrific sight, the railways is in such a bad shape in regards to their cars, I cant even explain.

And the KCR rail also passed through there during my short visit to the station, and it has the same railway cars, except that its of a different colour.

I mean sincerly we dont expect Bullet trains or really modern trains on the Sohrab Goth-Tower route, one can only imagine the PR cars.

I dont mind if they use bogies same as the MTA in New York (Which look like crap BTW) just please dont use PR! or anything dark green and ugly mustardish yellow! With iron bars on all the windows!

thats true in pakistan everything goes green and they don't think of any other color....
this will cause more accidents as same time train and cars passing through...more suicides .....women of pakistan will come to this place just like happened in malysia...

It should be something similar to Dockland Light Railway!!!

Follow this link to see some pictures of DLR
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=DLR

Gentlemen and ladies of the forum, please use whatever sources you have to bring media attention towards this important project.

The City Nazim is making tall claims again.

None of us have any details or any input
there is no transparency.

WRITE TO DAWN, TO GEO OR WHATEVER YOU CAN DO!

and while you are at it, also oppose the Quaidabad-Jinnah Bridge expressway plan.

Mustafa Kamal is the best city nazim/mayor Karachi has ever had. He is very dynamic and has a vision for where he would like to take Karachi. He seems to be working hard to get things done.

However he is working in an environment where he is restricted by many limitations. Obviously the biggest hurdle is limited funds. For the entire infrastructure in Karachi to be upgraded would probably require $50-100 billion dollars to bring it to international standards. This would include education, electricity, roads, sewerage system, waste disposal etc. etc. Obviously he doesn’t have anywhere near that much at his disposal.

A major part of the investment will have to come from private sources, both local and foreign. Therefore Karachi is dependent on a privately owned KESC to invest in and upgrade the electricity network. For the 24 km elevated expressway we have the Malaysian company undertaking the project. For the mass transit Karachi has to attract another foreign company to build it.

There are still many areas that would require private investment. They tried to privatize garbage disposal but apparently it did not work out and they are still looking for investors in this area. They are also looking for investors to build the 46 storey IT Tower. Because many of the proposed projects are of the type where locals do not have much experience they need outsiders to come and undertake them.

In short, Karachi’s future is closely tied to attracting foreign investment. However Karachi has been so abused by both foreign AND domestic media that obviously it is an uphill task to build up enthusiasm outside the country.

Plus we have all kinds of vested interests that are the enemies of progress. You have the religious parties who would love to see Mustafa Kamal fail as success will eliminate them from future elections. You have the transport mafia that insists on running buses and rickshaws that would not be allowed in other cities and keep threatening violence. You have the land grabbers who cry foul if the city tries to remove them. The regressive forces working to maintain the status quo is well entrenched.

However, Mustafa Kamal is doing his best and he should be commended for it and supported. He has managed to shake things up and things are staring to move in the right direction. Investment is poring in and projects are being launched.

In his enthusiasm Kamal has a tendency to announce projects before they are ready and claim completion dates that cannot be adhered to. Maybe he needs to tone down a bit while at the same time not lose his positive attitude.

My intention was not at all to detract the efforts of Mustafa Kamal. Indeed, he takes an active interest and is working against all odds to make the city better.

My only purpose is to make sure that we as citizens of Karachi make an active input into the decision-making process that goes into this vital project of the KMTP. This project is a big one and is going to impact Karachi a whole lot. All we need to do is to make sure that our city gets the best deal by helping the nazim along with our own findings and input if we can. All that is needed is to find a good channel to voice our concerns so that can be heard and incorporated into the plan by the CDGK.

Mustafa Kamal is the best city nazim/mayor Karachi has ever had. He is very dynamic and has a vision for where he would like to take Karachi. He seems to be working hard to get things done.

However he is working in an environment where he is restricted by many limitations. Obviously the biggest hurdle is limited funds. For the entire infrastructure in Karachi to be upgraded would probably require $50-100 billion dollars to bring it to international standards. This would include education, electricity, roads, sewerage system, waste disposal etc. etc. Obviously he doesn’t have anywhere near that much at his disposal.

A major part of the investment will have to come from private sources, both local and foreign. Therefore Karachi is dependent on a privately owned KESC to invest in and upgrade the electricity network. For the 24 km elevated expressway we have the Malaysian company undertaking the project. For the mass transit Karachi has to attract another foreign company to build it.

There are still many areas that would require private investment. They tried to privatize garbage disposal but apparently it did not work out and they are still looking for investors in this area. They are also looking for investors to build the 46 storey IT Tower. Because many of the proposed projects are of the type where locals do not have much experience they need outsiders to come and undertake them.

In short, Karachi’s future is closely tied to attracting foreign investment. However Karachi has been so abused by both foreign AND domestic media that obviously it is an uphill task to build up enthusiasm outside the country.

Plus we have all kinds of vested interests that are the enemies of progress. You have the religious parties who would love to see Mustafa Kamal fail as success will eliminate them from future elections. You have the transport mafia that insists on running buses and rickshaws that would not be allowed in other cities and keep threatening violence. You have the land grabbers who cry foul if the city tries to remove them. The regressive forces working to maintain the status quo is well entrenched.

However, Mustafa Kamal is doing his best and he should be commended for it and supported. He has managed to shake things up and things are staring to move in the right direction. Investment is poring in and projects are being launched.

In his enthusiasm Kamal has a tendency to announce projects before they are ready and claim completion dates that cannot be adhered to. Maybe he needs to tone down a bit while at the same time not lose his positive attitude.
totally 101% agreed!!!!!!!!

^ But he does drive around in a Mark II Grande, with dark tinted glasses.

I say that because of the "operation" a few months back to remove the said objects from the cars of ordinary citizens :)

lol....not only Mustufa does this...i mean drive the tinted glassed car.....but all government politicians do this.....

I saw many a times the Governer, Mr. Shoaib Bukhari, and many more....in the Off White Land Cruiser 2006, brown glasses(which are brown at daytime and black at nighttime...)and playing there TOYS i mean...TOYN TOYN TOYN....hato bacho.....and YE JA WO JA :D.....This is the general story of Pakistani Politicians....

GEO did a lot to get WAPDA to give more energy to Karachi by simply making an advert on Karachi and it's importance.

Media in Pakistan have lots of power and I don't think they've realised...with the exception of GEO; they should force the federal government to do something!

Feds to help build KMTP Corridor-2

KARACHI, Sindh Jan 20: The federal government has assured City Nazim Syed Mustafa Kamal of all possible assistance in the construction of Corridor-2 of the Karachi Mass Transit Project.

The assurance was given by Adviser to the Prime Minister on Finance Mr Salman Shah at their meeting in Islamabad on Friday, says a CDGK press release.

Mr Kamal also met Akram Sheikh, Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission, and Mr Daniyal Aziz, Chairman of the National Reconstruction Bureau.

EDO Finance Roshan Ali Sheikh, EDO Transport Mohammed Ather and Director-General of the KMTP Malik Zaheerul Islam were also present on the occasion.

The city nazim briefed Mr Salman Shah about the utility and significance of the KMTP. He said that it had been decided that the Corridor-2 of the project would be initiated with the help of federal government.

He pointed out that Karachi was facing a number of transport problems, and it was imperative to address them as early as possible.

He said that acceleration of the development activities in Karachi would benefit the country as a whole.

Mr Shah acceded to Mr Kamal’s point of view and assured him that the federal ministry of finance would provide funds for such a gigantic project.

It may be noted that the Corridor-2 starts from Orangi Town and ends at the Cantonment Station. The project envisages 14 stations.

A study conducted by World Bank in 1992 had suggested that there was a dire need of an 87-km mass transit network to resolve the city’s transport problem. They study had proposed six corridors.

In his meeting with Mr Akram Sheikh, the city nazim pin-pointed the problems and difficulties faced during the initiation of development work on the Corridor-1, and said that these problems could be resolved only with the support of the federal government.

Mr Sheikh assured him of the government’s help in finding a solution to these problems so that the project could be implemented as early as possible.

The Corridor-1 is to be built between Tower and Sohrab Goth.

According to a survey conducted recently, several million people use various transport means every day in Karachi and keeping this in view, the significance and utility of mega project like mass transit has become more important.

During his meeting with the NRB Chairman, Mr Daniyal Aziz, the city nazim discussed the Local Government system, as well as the issues and problems relating to the city district Karachi.

He also apprised Mr Aziz of the matters concerning the Sindh Local Government Ordinance (SLGO). They exchanged views on various aspects of the issues.

Mr Aziz assured Mr Kamal the problems being faced by Karachi would be considered sympathetically and addressed keeping in view the importance and significant position the city held.

—APP


C2? At least get C1 underway!

Pahlay Corridor 1 to bana lo! :sleepy:

thats right but they are planning for the next which is also important bcz when 1 is done then won't waste time for the 2nd and will start straight after it....kamal is very good...for karachi...MQM..

CNtower, without the source of any news item, it is useless. Please give the date and the source link from where you found the item.

all these guyz do is make plans ... nothing gets implemented ... its all balony .. they've been talking about corridor I for the last 2 yrs....nothinz been done ... its all talk .. making a fool outta ppl

Actually this project has been talked about for over 20 years but it never gets started, not because the Karachi authorities don't do enough, but because the rulers in Islamabad have flatly refused to help in any way.

Plans have been put together previously, once with a Canadian company that was willing to arrange the financing, but the federal government refused to provide equity finance or any guarantees for the loans.

It's useless to blame the Karachi government as it does not have control over the resources generated by the city and probably nowhere in the world have large infrastructure projects like this been built without some form of participation by the federal government.

The present city govt. is trying to get a foreign investor to build it and finance it themselves and collect the fares. But there are several problems with this approach.

-The investor will have to borrow money but the bank may want a guarantee for the loan from the Pakistan government.

-When the city government wants an investor to put up all the money then the city is no longer a BUYER of services but a SELLER trying to entice someone to build the network. This means that they have to accept whatever system is offered rather than what they really want. In contrast, if the city had the funding they can shop around and get the system they want from any manufacturer in the world.

-What if each investor builds a different type of line on the six routes? You'll have chaos. In the past we've had people offering to build Metros, Meglevs, Light Rail, Monorail etc.

I think the only possible solution is for the City Government to raise their own money by issuing bonds and building the system themselves instead of relying on foreign investors. They can probably raise enough money from the Karachi market fairly quickly.

I think Karachi Nazim has already said that construction will start in August, so let's just wait and see.

Additionally the news item by "cntower" shows that deveopment on corridor-II has also started which is good news and somehow confirms that corridor-I will be definitely launched soon. This is how I get it, may be too optismtic.

^^ yes very optimistic concerning the reality of the history of this project.

Nazim has given empty announcements devoid of any details, which means, those announcements are very empty.

As far as CN tower's article goes, he didnt quote a source, but as far as I remember, it was an old one.

I think moderators should make a rule,

" No News item allowed without date & source".

!

^ News item here are usually quoted with the website's link, its just this case where we dont know the link of the news article ...

I don't think its such a big issue, I'm sure CN will clarify this when he comes online.

Mustafa Kamal is the best city nazim/mayor Karachi has ever had. He is very dynamic and has a vision for where he would like to take Karachi. He seems to be working hard to get things done.

However he is working in an environment where he is restricted by many limitations. Obviously the biggest hurdle is limited funds. For the entire infrastructure in Karachi to be upgraded would probably require $50-100 billion dollars to bring it to international standards. This would include education, electricity, roads, sewerage system, waste disposal etc. etc. Obviously he doesn’t have anywhere near that much at his disposal.

A major part of the investment will have to come from private sources, both local and foreign. Therefore Karachi is dependent on a privately owned KESC to invest in and upgrade the electricity network. For the 24 km elevated expressway we have the Malaysian company undertaking the project. For the mass transit Karachi has to attract another foreign company to build it.

There are still many areas that would require private investment. They tried to privatize garbage disposal but apparently it did not work out and they are still looking for investors in this area. They are also looking for investors to build the 46 storey IT Tower. Because many of the proposed projects are of the type where locals do not have much experience they need outsiders to come and undertake them.

In short, Karachi’s future is closely tied to attracting foreign investment. However Karachi has been so abused by both foreign AND domestic media that obviously it is an uphill task to build up enthusiasm outside the country.

Plus we have all kinds of vested interests that are the enemies of progress. You have the religious parties who would love to see Mustafa Kamal fail as success will eliminate them from future elections. You have the transport mafia that insists on running buses and rickshaws that would not be allowed in other cities and keep threatening violence. You have the land grabbers who cry foul if the city tries to remove them. The regressive forces working to maintain the status quo is well entrenched.

However, Mustafa Kamal is doing his best and he should be commended for it and supported. He has managed to shake things up and things are staring to move in the right direction. Investment is poring in and projects are being launched.

In his enthusiasm Kamal has a tendency to announce projects before they are ready and claim completion dates that cannot be adhered to. Maybe he needs to tone down a bit while at the same time not lose his positive attitude.

its interesting you say that. people have been blasting mustafa kamal, the MQM, and of course president musharraf (always the easiest target for everything wrong in pakistan. as if things were milk and honey before he came.) however, i am happy to hear that someone is praising him. are you a resident of karachi? what do you make of the apparent traffic mess that has been created, the massive construction, and the recent law and order problems that everyone talks about? i mean, are things in karachi better or worse than what they were two or three years ago? i'm interested in the CDGK doing something about garbage privatization and clean water. i think these two things should be prioritized. the mass transit system should be very high as well. however, building IT Towers should be lower down the list. if the mayor can pull off those two or three things in his tenure, he'll get my vote of confidence. of course, as you mentioned, karachi is a difficult city to govern (the same holds true of pakistan in general. the vested interests are very well established.) i hope kamal succeeds. its vital for karachi and pakistan now.

i thik our grandchildrens will see some sort of corridor in karachi :)

:lol:

i thik our grandchildrens will see some sort of corridor in karachi :)

Yeah an AT-Grade corridor on which there will be bogies of PR running which would have "Karachi Mail" written on them!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

^^ :lol: :lol:

KARACHI: Pollution crosses tolerable limits: Suparco airs SOS

By Mukhtar Alam

KARACHI, July 19: The air and water pollution levels in Karachi have crossed national and international environment quality standards posing serious threat to the lives of 12 million residents of the city.

In a report prepared by the Pakistan Space & Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (Suparco), scientists have warned the government to take immediate measures to check the factors responsible for deteriorating environment.

The research report, which was prepared for the city government, also warned that the metropolis had already reached the critical sustenance limits of pollution on roads.

The scientists stated: “The impact of a reduced oxygen level on roads is already apparent from the blood picture of the people residing in or making a living at various traffic intersections. Any addition of a polluting system or technology that may increase the concentration of the pollutants by a mere 1 micro gram per cubic meter (µg/m3) is likely to be catastrophic.

“Accordingly further addition of automobiles to the existing fleet of vehicles should be stopped forthwith,” the scientists of the prime research body recommended.

Suparco conducted a survey over a period of six months last year for the transport and communication department of city government, under a project ‘Feasibility Study and Development of Transportation Control Plan of Karachi Metropolitan’, final report of which was recently submitted to the city government.

The main tasks assigned for the project included creation of baseline on status of pollution on the corridors of vehicular traffic in Karachi by measurement of level of pollutants viz. sulphur dioxide (SO2), carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxides (CO2), ozone (O3), nitrogen oxides (NOx), particulate matter (PM10), hydrocarbons (methane and non-methane) in ambient air and noise level.

Suparco also assessed the impact of vehicular traffic on the physical environment through surveys on quality of air, groundwater, wastewater, soil and vegetation at designated intersections across the city.

Assessment of impact on the living environment was also done by collecting samples of tree leaves and blood samples from volunteers working or making a living at 26 designated intersections.

Some of the factors that contributed to the overall mismanaged system and needed to be removed, according to scientists, were lack of infrastructure facilities; majority of vehicles being not road-worthy; large sections of roads being not vehicle worthy; poor standard of vehicle maintenance; limited use of fuel-efficient technologies.

The report also held that the existing government policies were not directly addressing provision of efficient mass transit system or fuel efficiency and emissions issues.

There is, therefore, an urgent need to improve fuel efficiency of vehicles; monitor the performance of vehicles on road by emission related testing/tuning procedures; introduce a well-managed transportation plan; introduce new vehicles only if they are fuel efficient; set up workshops for emission related tuning of all vehicles. Vehicles, old or new, should be allowed to run on city roads after checking for their emission-related efficiency, it was further stressed.

Suparco’s report said that the environmental conditions on road and transport sector had deteriorated considerably and would likely to continue deteriorating further while policies and standard operating procedures for checking the unabated deterioration of environment were non-existent.

It was further said that there was a dire need to develop ‘Transport Pollution Control Plan’ for environmental up-gradation and to arrest colossal damage and loss to life and property of the citizens due to vehicular traffic.

For the survey, the designated sites included 26 traffic intersections divided in five corridors, while Suparco headquarters and the Maritime Museum premises were selected as the two reference sites where impact of vehicular emission is least and vegetation density is high. The volume of traffic was also recorded at the designated locations.

According to the research report, the peak SO2 concentration of 40ppb (parts per billion) was noted at Garden Road and Preedy Street intersection and Burns Road intersection, while the maximum NOx concentration of 239ppb was recorded at Burns Road intersection.

The maximum CO2 concentration of 615ppm (parts per million) was found at Korangi Road and Baloch Colony bypass intersection, whereas the maximum CO concentration of 17ppm was noted at Empress Market.

The area around FTC was found with maximum concentration of ozone (i.e. 43ppb) while the maximum PM10 concentration of 480µg/m3 was found at Korangi Road and Baloch Colony bypass intersection.

Taking toluene concentration as representing volatile organic compounds (VOCs), Garden Road and Preedy Street intersection was found with maximum concentration of 68ppb.

The report mentioned that Korangi Road and Baloch Colony bypass intersection had the highest noise level i.e. 99 decibels (dB) in the city while according to the National Environmental Quality Standards the noise limit must not exceed 85dB.

It was further said that the 24-hour average concentration of SO2 was the only point of consolation; otherwise each pollutant had a concentration much higher than desired, according to the World Bank Guidelines and the National Environmental Quality Standards.

In the case of NOx it was stated that its concentration at all the intersections exceeded the limit of 150µg/m3 as prescribed by the World Bank and the WHO.

For the Total Suspended Particulate (TSP) Matter, street sweeping was analysed for hydrocarbon, lead, cadmium and asbestos and groundwater and wastewater for oil and grease to assess the impact of vehicular traffic on the quality of corridor of impact (COI).

It was found that concentration of TSP exceeds 450µg/m3 at Garden Road, Tibet Centre, Maulvi Musafir Khana, Tower & Preedy Street intersections and at congested observation points like Karimabad, Liaquatabad No10 and Gurumandir. It is at 300-380µg/m3 at observation points which are sufficiently open to the flushing action of wind, for example at Tin Hatti, Burns Road and Empress Market, Metropole Hotel, FTC, Sunset Boulevard and Baloch Colony Bypass.

When compared with WHO guidelines limit of 120µg/m3 for Suspended Particulate Matter; the increase shows that the living areas in the city are likely to be highly impacted by suspended particulate matter in ambient air. Similar is the case with lead and cadmium in TSP whose concentration ranges in each case between 2.5 and 4.12µg/m3. This level is higher than the 0.5 to 1.0µg/m3 limits suggested by the WHO and 1.5µg/m3 set by the USEPA or 2µg/m3 by the EU.

From the measurements of concentration of different pollutants particularly the primary pollutants CO, NOx, and PM10 (inhale-able) in the exhaust emissions from different modes of vehicles, it was noted that the vehicles using diesel oil as fuel or contaminated fuel; using lubricant in their fuel tank; operating with inappropriately tuned engines were responsible for contribution of more than the desired level of pollutants.

Observations on the performance of engines on roads suggest that present tuning practices dealt too inadequately with optimising the engines of vehicles with respect to emissions. Besides, operation of vehicular traffic has been proceeding without adequate awareness on control of emissions by emission-related tuning and monitoring and vehicles operating on roads and highways observed no schedule for regular repair and maintenance, the report stated.

Suparco surveyors found that the hearing of about 70 per cent of the volunteers at the surveyed sites was impaired. “The results of survey indicate that there has been substantial impact on the quality of life of those who earn a living at the traffic intersections," the researchers observed.

The report stated that persons inhaling at high concentrations of CO might suffer sour taste in mouth and stinging sensation in the nose and throat. People breathing seven to 10 per cent carbon dioxide could produce unconsciousness in only a few minutes, it added.

CO is an odourless, tasteless and highly poisonous gas, which interacts directly with blood haemoglobin and causes its reduction. At concentrations higher than 9ppm for eight hours, it is very toxic, causing headaches, dizziness, reduced ability to think, and nausea.

NOx are acidic gases, which on reaction with water vapour produce nitrous and nitric acids and therefore can cause acid rain. NOx gases are potential health hazards.

http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/20/local1.htm

I wonder where that Pollution campaign disappeared to?

It just suddenly vanished!

According to the news in january 19 Jang newspaper Sindh Highcourt denied to give any more time extension to pollution emitting vehicles...

http://i5.tinypic.com/20if1v7.jpg


http://jang.com.pk/jang/jul2006-daily/19-07-2006/karachi.htm

I wonder when the City Govt. will act seriously to these issues, namely the pollution issue and the other campaign that was brought down, the action taken against tinted glasses, fancy plates and all ..

Apparently the Home Ministry has issued a notice today giving a weeks notice for people to remove tinted glasses, fancy plates, sirens/hooters, AFR (Applied For Registeration plates) etc.

Well I guess one should always follow Amir Liaqat's route, travel right behind his car and well be fine!

Well I guess one should always follow Amir Liaqat's route, travel right behind his car and well be fine!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I hate that overacting bum.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I hate that overacting bum.

that guy is real good....at such a young age that knowledge and attitude is just great which pakis can be proud of.....
his political part MQM which they don't call it "political part" is very concenred about ppl at bottom line which is every1 should consider doing...
this should be stoped behind his car or anyone shouldn't be allowed...

^^ that has already been discussed in another thread. The guy has fake degrees and overacts to cover up for the fact that he is a fake. Shame for the nation.

i still don't believe this...
so any other news on this corridor thing...will it start or what...

I don't think the overhead monorail is going to work out, as it will probably charge a very high fair, which many people can not afford.

^^ not if it carries a large number of people!

^^ not if it carries a large number of people!

But how many destinations can it possibly go?

There have been five corridors of heavy traffic volume that have been already laid out in the plan. Stations on these routes can be served by buses that carry people from the surrounding areas to these stations.

Oh okay. Can't wait until we get some cool mass transit system here.

^ Definately, I would always prefer mass transit over automobiles, especially in Karachi.

http://www.karachicity.gov.pk/admin/tenderimages/11-08-2006.jpg

any updates guys ?

what the hell happened to Corridor I???

KARACHI: Future of KMTP hangs in balance

By Habib Khan Ghori

KARACHI, Sept 24: Work on the 17km long Sohrab Goth –Tower corridor-I of the Karachi Mass Transit Project (KMTP), which was due to commence in August, could not be materialized due to the federal government’s decision to revive the National Mass Transit Authority (NMTA).

The NMTA was set up by Benazir-led PPP government in 1994 but before initiating the project, it was rolled back along with the dismissal of the PPP government.

Following reports that Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has decided to upgrade the KMTP by reviving NMTA to include Lahore, Rawalpindi, Islamabad, Quetta, Hyderabad, Multan, and Faisalabad in the project, it is feared that the KMTP may also fall prey to bureaucratic wrangling.

These apprehensions were expressed by analysts, who had been keeping an eye on the project since 1952, when for the first time it was suggested in the first master plan of Karachi to devise a mass transport system on the lines of those found in other major cities of the world.

The central leader of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), Prof N.D. Khan, who was made chief of the first NMTA, said that mass transit mode of transport was the only solution to the ever increasing traffic problem in the metropolis and if the city government could make it, it would prove to be a major relief to the citizens.

It may be recalled that the need for such a mass transit programme for the city was realised in 1986 following the death of a female student, Bushra Zaidi that had resulted in riots. But after normalization of the situation, the real issue was put to the back burner.

During the mayorship of Dr Farooq Sattar, work was initiated and PC-1 was prepared and bids were also invited for the implementation of the project but due to the wrangling over the authority’s structure, particularly its head, the project in question made no headway.

About 39 Asian cities have been operating the mass transit system successfully by adopting light rail, mono-rail or metro system but Karachi, where this idea was floated in 1952, is till without a modern transport system in spite of the fact that its population is now about to cross 14 million souls. Long and exhausting traffic jams on its road have ultimately become order of the day.

The number of public transport vehicles is quite insufficient when compared to the current population of the city, which is increasing at a rapid pace, thus forcing commuters to travel on the rooftops of buses or by clinging to the doors and on their footboards and resulting in deaths of the masses almost every day.

According to the analysts, since 1986 scores of Pakistani delegations have visited different countries to study their mass transit systems and held negotiations with various financial institutions for arranging investments for a system suitable for Karachi. However, no progress seems to have been made so far, although a substantial amount of money and energy has already been wasted in the whole exercise.

The incumbent city government, after taking over the charge, had decided to come up with a modern transport system for the city along with the revival of the Karachi Circular Railway. In this connection, different offers, including one from a Chinese concern of a light rail system to be built on credit finance basis, are under study. The other proposals are based on BOT (build, operate and transfer) made by the Matrons for a mono-rail system, and IDC for a light rail system.

The planning commission had approved Rs5 billion for public-private mass transit system for Karachi under the PSDP. But recently Sindh Transport Minister Adil Siddiqui had disclosed that Japan had also offered investments up to $800 million to improve the transport system in this metropolis. This offer includes revival of the KCR and a modern urban transport system with the induction of 8,000 new CNG buses being part of the system.

However, after presentations given to the prime minister on the KMTP, it is yet to be clarified whether the federal government has decided to give a green signal to the city government to implement the KMTP on a priority basis or the entire process of inviting bids would have to be repeated.

http://www.dawn.com/2006/09/25/local6.htm

Yesterday in Dawn... Tender opening date (of KMT corridore II) is extended to 1 month... its due to the request of some firms... they require some time to finalize there proposals....

Are they ever gonna build this shit? Seriously.

I dont think its gonna be built for another six to ten years at least.

I really feel sad and sorry for those companies who STILL keep on giving proposals for this. One of those companies, a US maglev company, even put it up on its website that it was putting a line from Sohrab Goth to Tower!

:lol:

We are only scaring off investors this way.

I seriously sometimes wonder why this takes so long? Mass Transit is like a curse on Karachi, for some god damn reason it never takes off!

I really feel sad and sorry for those companies who STILL keep on giving proposals for this. One of those companies, a US maglev company, even put it up on its website that it was putting a line from Sohrab Goth to Tower!

wasn't it the earlier Nazim Naimatullah who was talking to maglev for putting this line ?

^^ The American Maglev company was a sham. I am glad that project never materialized. It has already been discussed in an earlier thread on KMTP. Please look it up in the forum backlogs.

http://www.karachicity.gov.pk/admin/tenderimages/11-08-2006.jpg

any updates guys ?

http://www.karachicity.gov.pk/admin/tenderimages/14-10ten.jpg

I am deeply amused. I might just "express my interest". Just for the kicks, you know. KMTP, it's a nice joke.

I sure hope SOMETHING does come up in the end.

@ Umais: you are right, the whole KMTP thing has become a huge joke!
our authorities just dont seem serious enough!

"On the request of Potential Investors"

:hilarious

KARACHI: Japan offers help for KCR revival

KARACHI, Nov 10: Japan has offered a loan on very low mark-up for revival of Karachi Circular railway. The plan envisages restoration of circular railway from KPT bridge to Landhi and an additional circular service from new Sabzi Mandi to Sohrab Goth and Liaquatabad.

This was stated by Sindh Chief Secretary Fazlur Rehman here on Friday while talking to the NIPA course participants from Peshawar.

The visiting participants of the 41st advanced course on public sector management were also briefed about development activities in Sindh, including Lyari Expressway Resettlement Project, Devolved Social Service programme, RBOD besides mega and other projects of education, health, roads, schools in Sindh's rural areas. On the occasion, the course participants made queries about crime situation and police services, rural-urban problems, environmental pollution, devolution programme etc.

The director-general NIPA Peshawar thanked the chief secretary and other officers present in the meeting. On the occasion shields were also exchanged. Additional chief secretary development Ghulam Sarwar Khehro briefed the visitors about development projects of Sindh government in detail.

Secretary Implementation Nazar Hussain Mahar, Secretary, General Administration, Aftab Ahmed Memon, Additional IG Sindh, Special Secretary Finance and Special Secretary Local Government were also present.—APP


http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/11/local18.htm

Planning Commission maps out CDGK’s work for mass transit system

21.10.06
ISLAMABAD: A steering committee headed by Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Dr Akram Sheikh has mapped out a course of action for the City District Government Karachi (CDGK) for the Karachi Light Rail Mass Transit System so that it is completed as soon as possible, a senior government official informed Daily Times on Saturday.

The committee, formed by the prime minister on the request of the CDGK, met recently to start working on monitoring the arrangements and implementation of the project.

The CDGK will set up a power generation unit to operate the mass transit system. This unit will be dual-fired (it will work on oil and gas) for which the ministry of petroleum would provide 30 mmcfd of gas, a government official told Daily Times. The committee has decided that the CDGK will approach the Ministry of Petroleum and Sui Southern Gas Company Limited for the allocation of gas and oil.

The mass transit system will need land for depots, workshops, administrative facilities, operations control center, parking, marshalling and stabling areas. As this land is mainly controlled by the ministry of railways and ministry of ports and shipping (KPT), the CDGK will approach them. An official from the Ministry of Railways informed Daily Times that surplus land is very expensive and is being disposed off to generate funds for asset replacement.

The CDGK has sought the PM’s guidance on the selection of bidders for the project. The committee decided that the project will be on a Build Operate and Transfer (BOT) basis.

The CDGK has requested the center to provide a sovereign guarantee of US$121 million to move the project forward and the committee directed the CDGK to immediately take up the issue with the Ministry of Finance.

During the meeting, the CDGK presented a proposal for the system to be undertaken by M/S Infrastructure Development Co. Pvt Ltd along with other allied companies on a BOT basis.

The committee directed the Sindh government to approach all federal ministries and agencies concerned for the concessions amenities required to help the CDGK move forward on this project.

The CDGK has requested the Central Board of Revenue (CBR) to exempt it from taxes and duties on imports for the project. The project will need imported vehicles, rail cars, an automatic train control system, a signaling system, an automatic fare collection system and rail track. In return, the CBR has asked the CDGK to provide a detailed report of these requirements so that the exemptions could be ensured according to the formula of IPPs. The project had been in cold storage for 20 years due to a scarcity of funds.

from Daily Times

does this mean there is hope yet?

till ground is officially broken and construction work actually started, its all talk and no show. So I wouldnt keep my fingers crossed on this project anymore.

As I mentioned in the Expressway thread, we shouldnt even talk or raise hopes about projects like these until the Goundbreaking is completed and there is hope.

Regarding the loans offered by Japan, I wouldnt be surprised if they do accept the loans and pocket them in, as I remember funds given by Canada for Educational uplift were used to buy Automobiles for the Government.

Finally for Karachiites, :cheers:

KARACHI: Deal on light rail likely next month (http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/20/local2.htm)


By Arman Sabir

KARACHI, Nov 19: An agreement between a multinational companies’ consortium and the government may be inked next month for construction of the long-awaited light rail mass transit project for Corridor One in this city of 16 million.

Well-placed sources in the government said a meeting held in Islamabad was told that the letter of intent had been issued to the consortium of the multinational companies which included a local company.

The consortium would build the project on build-operate-transfer basis. Earlier, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz chaired a meeting in September in this respect and the subsequent meeting advanced the process to finalise the deal with the consortium.

Financial and other matters including sovereign guarantee, allocation of land for workshops, depots, etc., supply of gas for power generation, waiver of sales tax, income tax and reduction in duties on imported items, besides many other things were discussed in the meeting.

A proposal was given to the meeting about land allocation near Sohrab Goth. The meeting was told Pakistan Railways did not have sufficient land in the vicinity of Merewether Tower and land for depots, workshops, etc., be allocated near Sohrab Goth.

The consortium will install its own electricity generation plant which would require 30 MMCFD (millions of cubic feet per day) gas. Electricity would be used to operate the light train.

The meeting suggested to the consortium to install a dual fire system for the power generation plant so that there would be two options available with the consortium to generate power either by utilising gas or furnace oil. The meeting observed that the required gas supply be ensured to the consortium as it was an important segment to make the project successful, sources said.

Regarding the financial aspect, the meeting was told that instructions by the Prime Minister said to follow the procedure of giving concessions similar to the independent power producers (IPPs) case, which included considerable reduction in withholding tax, customs duties, etc. The meeting observed that incentives given by other countries in mass transit projects be reviewed and if possible more incentives be given to the consortium.

Thirty Nine Asian cities are operating successful mass transit system by adopting light rail, mono-rail or metro system but Karachi, where this idea was floated in 1952, is till without one.

The city government, after taking the charge, decided to come up with a modern transport system for the metropolis along with revival of the Karachi Circular Railway.

Its still all he said she said. Till concrete work actually starts, its safe to believe its all hear-say

Well not really. If you read this article again carefully, you'll see what I am talking about:

An agreement between a multinational companies’ consortium and the government may be inked next month

Well-placed sources in the government said a meeting held in Islamabad was told that the letter of intent had been issued to the consortium of the multinational companies which included a local company. translation: he said she said

As far as the Doodh ka jala comment goes, yeah, of course, after so many rumors and false news, i am surprised your doodh is still not jala yet.
The CDGK has been crying wolf wayyy too frequently to be taken on face value now.

The English translation would be: Once bitten, twice shy.

As for KMTP, are people still taking it seriously? I think it's time we move this to the humor section.

Light Rail project to start in mid-Jan

By Intikhab Ali

KARACHI: Preparations for the Light Rail Transit System (LRTS) are in full swing, and the foundation stone of the project is expected to be laid mid-January 2007, by either the president or the prime minister.

The federal government has constituted a broad-based steering committee for the implementation of the LRTS on Corridor-1 (Sohrab Goth to Tower) on a Build-Operate-Transfer (BOT) basis. A decision to this effect was taken in a federal government meeting presided over by Prime Minster Shaukat Aziz. The steering committee will be headed by the planning commission deputy chairman.

The LRTS-popularly known as the Karachi Mass Transit Project (KMTP)-has been delayed for the past 20 years. The steering committee has been ordered by the prime minister to ensure that all hurdles and complications are removed.

According to sources in the CDGK, the federal government has finally decided that the rail transit system is the best solution for the increasing traffic problems in Karachi, so much so that the federal government itself will monitor the project.

The only proposal for the project was received from M/S IDS and its consortium members. The proposal was appraised by legal, technical and financial consultants of the CDGK, while an evaluation committee held meetings with the bidder.

Proposals had also been invited for the implementation of the LRTS along Corridor-II (Orangi to Cantt Station-13.4 km) on a BOT basis. The last date for the submission of proposals was November 18.

Daily Times - All Rights Reserved

maybe a good news? Depends on if this actually takes place in January. Also, before construction starts, I think the CDGK should publish detailed plans of this project for critique by citizens of Karachi.

By the way, I ran a search for M/S IDS and any company by the acronym of IDS and came up with only software companies. So I dont know how far this light rail plan stretches.

Not gonna happen. How come they haven't told anything about the company? Whenever any project is about to start, people are given a background about the company, not just mention en passant. This is crap. I'm taking bets it won't happen. Anyone cares to wager?

Not gonna happen. How come they haven't told anything about the company? Whenever any project is about to start, people are given a background about the company, not just mention en passant. This is crap. I'm taking bets it won't happen. Anyone cares to wager?

I'll put 10 on it not happening!

I will put 10 on it that it will happen by 2050.

Ill put $10 on it that your 10 would be of no value in 2050 considering the condition of the rupee :lol:

The condition of the rupee wont improve until these morons can stop it from getting devalued.

I'll put $10 on what Fahad said! :lol:

Then as security I will put 10 dollars on what he said as well.

mee 2...10\

mee 2...10\

On what???

On what???

bet on starting of project ... as our govt. announces big projects but never materialize....

bet on starting of project ... as our govt. announces big projects but never materialize....

Not ture for ALL governoment's big progects..
look at liyari express way.. its a huuuuge project and its materializing..
but i am not sure about the KMPT...
well we should'nt loose hope... its very difficult to initiate so many huge projects at the same time...there are many hurdels... i hope one by one they all get materialized. Atleast conditions are much better then before, many bridges and roads has been compeleted, and many are under construction...

I put 10 on putting 10!

OI MOD BOI!!

Shouldnt you be moderating this thread instead of helping it go off topic?!!

Somebody wanna write to DAWN? do something useful maybe? instead of throwing bets around and yakkity yakking like most us Pakistanis usually do anyway?

Ill put $20 on it that nobody here would write to DAWN about it :lol:

What the hell going on here ?? :bash: No betting here. haram in islam !

What the hell going on here ?? :bash: No betting here. haram in islam !
I bet 10 dollars that it is:lol:

Shouldnt you be moderating this thread instead of helping it go off topic?!!
:banana: No?:banana:

Anarchy Zindabaad

^^ ^^ ha ha ha.... pakistani hain na.. jiss baat say rokoo wohi baat bar bar karain gay :lol: :banana:

I bet $10 more on what Fahad said!

And Umais, I see your $10 and I raise $10 more! :banana:
(just saw casino royale!Again!)

^^ ^^ ha ha ha.... pakistani hain na.. jiss baat say rokoo wohi baat bar bar karain gay :lol: :banana:
The sad thing is that is very true.:lol:

So I have given up on it

OI! Come back to becoming sane or I will have to report you!

Grow up kids!

OI! Come back to becoming sane or I will have to report you!

Grow up kids!
Report them to me and I will take care of them.:lol:

Alright, fine back to normal everyone.:)

Remember kids: DONT DO COCAINE! It makes you re-TAH-ded

^^ Okay Grandad!!

Well see we just proved his theory that Pakistanis do not listen.

no wonder we are still shi++ing around next to the African countries in terms of development. We deserve to be there.

By Sajid Chaudhry

ISLAMABAD: The Planning Commission (PC) has expressed concern over the unavailability of the identified areas for the Karachi Light Rail Mass Transit System and has directed the Karachi Port Trust (KPT) to redesign their land use plan in collaboration with the City District Government of Karachi (CDGK).

In a recent meeting on the project, the KPT representative told the PC chairman that the area identified for Build, Operate and Transfer (BOT) operations was already in use for bonded cargo, stuffing and de-stuffing and it was not possible to make the land available for BOT operations. The PC chairman expressed concern over the KPT stance and directed that the contractor, the KPT and the CDGK should convene a meeting immediately to resolve the issue.

The Finance Ministry informed the meeting that authorities were working out the modalities for arranging a sovereign guarantee of $121 million to support the Karachi Mass Transit Project. The Railways Ministry said that it had moved a summary to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz for approval of allocation of land to the contractor. Out of 16.5 acres of land required by the contractor, 2.5 acres of land is under litigation while the remaining 14 acres of land was commercial and worth billions of rupees, the ministry added.

The ministry said that it had sought Aziz’s approval on whether to give the land for the BOT operations or not. The Karachi city nazim said that the land used by the railways was government property and the department did not have the authority to sell the land for commercial use. The PC chairman said that the federal government had already decided that the Railways and Ports and Shipping ministries and the KPT should expedite the process of the transfer of land to the CDGK for the project. He said that if the CDGK’s land use plan envisaged the use of this land for a public purpose, and this was confirmed by the CDGK council, the land could not be used for a commercial purpose and should be handed over to the CDGK for BOT operations.

The Central Board of Revenue (CBR) told the meeting that the financial package submitted by the contractor already catered for duties and taxes and therefore concessions/exemptions for the project was not required. The contractor said that that the company had submitted a revised financial model whereby duties and tax exemptions were required to ensure the viability of the project.

The PC chairman said that the prime minister had decided that the concession model used for independent power producers would be applied to the project.

Dailytimes Online Edition Friday, January 05, 2007 (http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\01\05\story_5-1-2007_pg12_2)

I've had it up to here with this bullcrap!

We have to start a petition now and get this bloody nazim to get up off his ass and do something...I'm dead serious for the past 4 years I've been reading this plan and that plan and this plan and you know what...all of them from the Nazim to Musharraf can take those plans and shove it!

These clowns don't even know how miserable life is just driving around in Karachi; they get to close all the roads 30 mins in advance just so they can rush home in there little BMW's...what about us?

I'm starting a petition...mind you I suck at getting people worked up to do something so if someone can make a petition for me that would be nice...

random abuse in punjabi now beginshttp://skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html

I've had it up to here with this bullcrap!

We have to start a petition now and get this bloody nazim to get up off his ass and do something...I'm dead serious for the past 4 years I've been reading this plan and that plan and this plan and you know what...all of them from the Nazim to Musharraf can take those plans and shove it!

These clowns don't even know how miserable life is just driving around in Karachi; they get to close all the roads 30 mins in advance just so they can rush home in there little BMW's...what about us?

I'm starting a petition...mind you I suck at getting people worked up to do something so if someone can make a petition for me that would be nice...

random abuse in punjabi now beginshttp://skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html


There there :pet:

Hahahahahahha

Well, actually the NAZIM bhai has done a little from his PLAN BOOK, which he has been authoring since his NIZAMAT(Mayorship)'s CHILDHOOD :D lol ....Does anybody remember? He had been Sindh's IT Minister for three years almost( if i am correct) and he had done nothing but claims claims and claims....I remember reading his statments in papers everyday, he came up with a new IDEAAAAAAA everyday...(like bobby's IDEEEEAAAAA in drama Family front :P).

We need the progress and development which NYC needed in early 1900s(which she had got at right times). We dont have the infrastructure which NYC had in those days....thats why I often state that WE ARE SEVERAL DECADES BEHIND THE GORA.

I swear the day they stop "expressing interest" and actually push the first shovel into Karachi's soil, I will give out mithai to my entire block! I think if we look at the worlds biggest cities without a form of public transit/transport system, Karachi would be on top. Karachi deserves this more than any other city in the world and I wish our politicians would realize that. :ohno:

Actually Karachi city was expanded (and made expanded) in a very haphazzard manner. Theres not much space besides the Roads and streets which can accommodate a project like this easily. Also our roads lack the parking space. This all was resulted from the bad planning and UN-DEVOTED character of past authorities. There was no check and balance, nor up-to-date planning and implementation on valid standards in the past.

They are showing morale, devotion and hope right now but still they are running out of PERFECTION and STANDARDS.

But lets dont lose hope....and this very hope can arouse us to monitor the plans and works to ensure the implementation go in the right way.

So We need to be united on a platform like an nGO and put our theses forward and reveal the truth about what CDGK and other authorities are doing. Theres a lot of room for Journalism, as the current journalists are not doing their job in a way it must be done.

Malaysian firm keen to invest in KMTP

By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, Jan 10: The government of Malaysia is willing to sign an agreement with the city government for the construction of Corridors II and III of the Karachi Mass Transit Project.

A delegation of a Malaysian firm, Min Consult SDN BHD, called on City Nazim Mustafa Kamal on Wednesday and expressed interest on behalf of its government in signing an agreement regarding the construction of the KMTP’s Corridors II and III. The associate director of the firm, Ir Suraj Parkash, presented a detailed briefing on Corridors II and III.

However, Mr Kamal maintained that the city government would only sign agreement of Corridors II and III with the companies mentioning fares, which should be in the range of the people of the metropolis. The city government is striving to provide maximum facilities to commuters and implement the mass transit projects, he added.

He asked the Malaysian firm to submit a comprehensive report in this regard and also incorporate all financial affairs with the details of initiation and completion dates of the project.

The delegation informed him that a study was being carried out by the company for the Corridors II and III of the KMTP and requested the nazim for help it. Mr Kamal directed the city government officials concerned to provide maximum facilities to the firm so that they could complete their study.

www.epaper.dawn.com

Let the Malaysians build it!!!!!!! For gods sake let them!!

And wheres Corridor I??

I think till now Japan and Malaysia have expressed their willingness to help us out for our Mass Transit program, and not once I think they've expressed it a few times now.

Too bad wer too lazy to respond to their offers :lol:

I think till now Japan and Malaysia have expressed their willingness to help us out for our Mass Transit program, and not once I think they've expressed it a few times now.

Too bad wer too lazy to respond to their offers :lol:

That may be because our politicians think that Karachi or any other city doesn't really need Mass transit. BTW Tongas are better way to go as they more eco-friendly......:ohno:

Malaysian firm keen to invest in KMTP

By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, Jan 10: The government of Malaysia is willing to sign an agreement with the city government for the construction of Corridors II and III of the Karachi Mass Transit Project.

A delegation of a Malaysian firm, Min Consult SDN BHD, called on City Nazim Mustafa Kamal on Wednesday and expressed interest on behalf of its government in signing an agreement regarding the construction of the KMTP’s Corridors II and III. The associate director of the firm, Ir Suraj Parkash, presented a detailed briefing on Corridors II and III.

However, Mr Kamal maintained that the city government would only sign agreement of Corridors II and III with the companies mentioning fares, which should be in the range of the people of the metropolis. The city government is striving to provide maximum facilities to commuters and implement the mass transit projects, he added.

He asked the Malaysian firm to submit a comprehensive report in this regard and also incorporate all financial affairs with the details of initiation and completion dates of the project.

The delegation informed him that a study was being carried out by the company for the Corridors II and III of the KMTP and requested the nazim for help it. Mr Kamal directed the city government officials concerned to provide maximum facilities to the firm so that they could complete their study.

www.epaper.dawn.com

Let the Malaysians build it!!!!!!! For gods sake let them!!

And wheres Corridor I??

I think by Corridor I .. they meant the signal free corridor.. i dont know .. i am just asuming

all are messed uo ... lol.... Someone (more confident than me) should contact CDGK about the descriptions and master plans/maps of their VISIONS :d

I think contacting the CDGK is like contacting the President.

I went by M A Jinnah road recently, and the traffic is just nuts there. At all times u can expect mind boggling congestion and have to inhale poisonous fumes from millions of cars. This nazim needs to get his a$$ cracking and start on some actual work on this project now. There is NO way that Karachi can go on the next ten years without this one.

I think by Corridor I .. they meant the signal free corridor.. i dont know .. i am just asuming


Two different things, this is for light rail masas trransit system.

The trees along M.A.Jinnah road have died out because of the air pollution there, its just the humans that are left.

^^^ v v true....this is because the overwhelming increase in financial and business activities around that area and surely the BAD PLANNING....If they planned different business districts in the different areas of the city in early 70s or 80s, there would be a great difference.

Well, I have been hearing about the shifting of JUDIA BAZAAR, BOULTON MARKET and others to the Super Highway by MY ANCESTORS lol :P since a long time...

do you think so the owners of stores will agree that easily to move on superhighway

The ADB, according to bank officials, is also considering granting a loan of several hundred million dollars to build a mass transit system, refurbish a dilapidated water supply and waste-water network and establish a solid waste disposal system.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Pakistan+%26+Sub-Continent&month=June2007&file=World_News2007060984112.xml

The ADB, according to bank officials, is also considering granting a loan of several hundred million dollars to build a mass transit system, refurbish a dilapidated water supply and waste-water network and establish a solid waste disposal system.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Pakistan+%26+Sub-Continent&month=June2007&file=World_News2007060984112.xml

That article was published in almost every English Language Pakistani newspaper, and it has also been posted here a few times.

But thankyou. :)

KARACHI, Aug 21: Like many uplift projects, the Karachi Mass Transit Project, approved and notified by the Pakistan government way back in 1995 for light rail system, has yet to materialise reportedly due to powerful vested interests.

All efforts made by the federal, Sindh and the city governments to implement the project’s first two out of the six priority corridors seem to end in failure and any change in the status of the project in the near future is nowhere in sight. Similarly, the CNG buses project and the revival of the Karachi Circular Railway is likely to meet the same fate.

These observations were made during a meeting of the KMT Cell held on Monday in the office of Sindh Chief Secretary Ejaz Ahmed Qureshi, who also presided over the meeting, sources told Dawn.

The KMTP Director-General, Malik Zaheerul Islam, brief the chief secretary on the project. The meeting was held to review the traffic situation at almost all important arteries of the metropolis during rush hour causing great inconvenience both to com muters and pedestrians and also hampering the movement of ambulances.

The situation prompted the Supreme Court of Pakistan to take a suo motu action in this regard.

Observers may recall that the city government on Oct 13, 2006 had signed a Letter of Intent (LoI) with M/s Infrastructure Development Company to implement priority-I corridor from Sohrab Goth to Tower for light rail transit system on a BOT basis while for corridor-II from Orangi to Cantt Station, Expressions of Interest (EoIs) were invited.

The meeting was informed that the Bus Rapid Transit System, which was planned on a “private-public partnership based public transport system for Karachi” in 2006 by the KMTC to operate feeder service and CNG bus project, was also awaiting approval from the federal authorities concerned.

The feasibility of the project, which was prepared by a Thai consultant firm, had been circulated among over two dozen transport experts, donor agencies and financial institutions and the ADB had reportedly agreed to provide technical and financial assistance. According to sources privy to the meeting, it was also informed that the CDGK cell had prepared a PC-I worth Rs4.5 billion for the induction of 2,825 buses of 12 meters and 910 buses of 7.5 meters for feeder service.

The Central Development Working Party (CDWP) had approved the project in February last and decided to kick off the project with the introduction of 500 CNG buses during the current year for which a steering committee was also set up.

The committee had so far held three meetings with various financial institutions and transporters and the specification for CNG buses were forwarded to the federal government for approval.

According to sources, the chief secretary said that as huge finances were involved in the project, a high-level meeting should be held with the Sindh governor and chief minister along with the stakeholders representatives so that the bottlenecks if any, could be overcome and the project could take off and the commuters be facilitated by providing them a comfortable and efficient bus service at the earliest.

City Nazim said that the work on Karachi Mass Transit will initiate as soon as KPT handover its land near Mereweather tower to CDGK. He said that they had already signed a contract with the Chinese firm on Chinese Pres. Hu Jintao visit to Pakistan. He made it clear that Karachi Mass transit project is different from Lahore Metro project, the cost of KMTP is nearly $800m and the cost of Lahore Metro exceeds $2b.

Federal Minster for Ports and Shipping Babar Khan Ghauri said on Tuesday that the Karachi Port Trust (KPT) was ready to give land for the Karachi Mass Transit Program but the developer wanted to use the required 27 acres land for commercial purpose, about which the KPT had reservations.

I ran a search for the companies that have been mentioned in the article. M-trans is the company that made the Kuala Lumpur monorail. Their website can be found over here:
http://www.monorail.com.my/mtrans/intro.htm

However, I could not find out anything about the International Development Corporation or IDC (what a rudimentary name!). If you can find any information about this company by running any search online, please post it here.

I think that more details about this project need to be given out to the public.


I make reference to your question about the IDC Development Corporation and I would STRONGLY urge you to do proper Due Diligence on this company. There have been many other large corporations that have been ripped off by the IDC but instead of going into what would be a very lengthy report about all that I know about this company (I can be contacted offline at my email address) I would invite all interested parties to visit here and please let your people know:

www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/430/RipOff0430050.htm

And here:

http://feeds.digg.com/~r/digg/topic/business_finance/upcoming/~3/aQNfiLEmfC4/IDC_INTERNATIONAL_DEVELOPMENT_CORPORATION_TM_BE_CAREFUL

And here:

http://news.idc-corporation.com/files/19982-19059/Project_Presentation_IOBDRC_01Press.pdf
But here you will notice that the press release is authored by the same Christopher Feldman which is what they do to "pimp" their profile and look good. I could go on and on and on but as I said, I have all necessary documentation to prove everything being stated here! BEWARE THE IDC INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION!!!:bash: