Bullet train to Singapore: From KL in 90 minutes
05 Jul 2006
Rajan Moses
NewStraitTimes (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/Frontpage/20060705074652/Article/index_html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/nazrey/bullet20to20singapore.jpg

YTL proposes RM8 billion high-speed train link.

KUALA LUMPUR: Imagine zipping in a bullet train from the KL Sentral station into the heart of Singapore in 90 minutes flat. That is something that will become a reality if tycoon Tan Sri Francis Yeoh’s plan to build and operate such a train service at a cost of up to RM8 billion takes off.

Yeoh told the New Straits Times that the Malaysian and Singapore Governments had been informed of the proposal by YTL Corp for the fast train service.

If approved, the project will become the largest to be launched on a private finance initiative (PFI) basis, as encouraged under the Ninth Malaysia Plan.

Construction will take three years but it could be two years before cross-border approvals and land acquisition are obtained.

Yeoh said that if the project is approved, YTL would go to the global capital market to raise the needed funds to finance it. Partners providing the rail and train technology for the project could be either Japanese, French or German operators of fast train services.

"Every single fund manager loves this project and a lot of consumers want it. The industries want it. It’s a no-brainer. It’s the perfect alternative to air and land transport between the two hubs and will integrate them," he said.

"This is not a dream and a project that can’t be done. It can be done if there is a will to do it. And I pray that there will be this will to do it," he said.

"It will help move the economy ahead. The country now needs the boost of fresh private sector investment and we can do that with projects like this."

Yeoh said the KL-Singapore fast rail link could be an extension of the Sentral-Kuala Lumpur International Airport train service that is currently operated by YTL majority-owned ExpressRail Link (ERL).

The ERL was built at a cheap cost of RM35 million per kilometre compared to other train projects in the developed world built at between RM120-RM150 million per kilometre. The ERL project received no government subsidies.

"We can extend the airport line to Singapore. We can also find ways for the rail link to pass through the newly developing southern Johor Corridor enroute to Singapore," he added.

Under the YTL proposal, a new standard gauge railway line would have to be built across the southern states to accommodate trains with wider wheels that can travel at a speed of up to 350km per hour.

The metre-gauge railway lines currently used by Keretapi Tanah Melayu (KTM) can only accommodate trains with a smaller wheel size and a maximum speed of 140 km per hour.

Yeoh said the timing was just right for the launch of the project now as the Malaysian Government was keen on it and the cost of land acquisition to build the rail connection was relatively cheap.

Land cost usually accounts for 70 per cent of the cost of such rail projects while the cost for the technology accounts for 30 per cent.

"It is the land value that is important. The land cost is still affordable now in Malaysia, unlike in Hong Kong, the US or Europe."

Yeoh said Singapore has also had a look at the project.

"I don’t think they will be that difficult. We have been chatting with them for quite a while now."

Yeoh said he was ready to accept Malaysia Airlines and Singapore Airlines as well as the airport operators of both cities as "cornerstone investors" in the project to ensure relevant entities from both sides had a stake in the project.

The direct rail link will provide commuters with an alternative to expensive air travel and the slower journey by car or bus.

Would you pay to take a ride on the bullet train to Singapore? If so, how much would you be prepared to pay for the service? Give your comments below.

cant wait to see this happens... :)

High speed rail travel is expensive ... i don't think average Malaysian can afford to use it

Great news! Think about this: in future ppl live in KL and work in Singapore, and vice versa. I dont think fare prices matter as long as it is cheaper than taking flights.

Great news! Think about this: in future ppl live in KL and work in Singapore, and vice versa. I dont think fare prices matter as long as it is cheaper than taking flights.
They'd still have to settle immigration matters or come up with a special pass card. From the article, it seems like the high speed rail link is seamless KL city center to SIngapore city center (1 and a half hrs). Or would the link end at the immigration complex? and take a bus over to Singapore from there? Then it would defeat the purpose.

Great news! Think about this: in future ppl live in KL and work in Singapore, and vice versa. I dont think fare prices matter as long as it is cheaper than taking flights.
They'd still have to settle immigration matters or come up with a special pass card. From the article, it seems like the high speed rail link is seamless KL city center to SIngapore city center (1 and a half hrs). Or would the link end at the immigration complex? and take a bus over to Singapore from there? Then it would defeat the purpose. I'm guessing they would come up with something like KL Sentral CAT and KLIA check-in procedures, only difference immigration would be involved. Then it would be sensible for seamless fast travel from center to center.

Center to center is something thats hard to achieve cause there's the issue of dedicating land in singapore for the viaduct (The Malaysian company will own the land here?). By ending it at a MRT station (Kranji Station) near the Woodlands Checkpoint, there won't be much of an issue, plus its connected to the MRT network so no issue with transportation there. Sure visitors from Thailand and Malaysia will find it more inconvenient to get to the Singapore City Centre because of the need to transfer but its only a small price to pay to avoid a lot of complications...and raise the likelihood of the plan succeeding...

1. This isn't a intra-country rail arrangement like Taiwan and Japan where there is no issue of how much land is taken up because the govt still owns the land, not another country.

2. Plus unlike the UK etc, we don't really have a lot of land to spare.

3. We don't like overhead wires so obviously authorities if approve the project will likely want to minimise any of it, thus shortening the route. Unless policy changes that is.

If both govts agreed, I suggest why don't just turn Tanjong Pagar Railway Station into an international railway terminal just like London Waterloo. KTMB can work together with Singapore authority to get this things done. By having the train stopping at JB or Woodlands CIQ will defeat the purpose. If Singapore don't fancy overhead wires, then just install a third rail at singapore section just like Eurostar where it can operate with overhead wires and third rail in southern England. I'm sure everyone can benefit from this in a win win situation.

Center to center is something thats hard to achieve cause there's the issue of dedicating land in singapore for the viaduct (The Malaysian company will own the land here?). By ending it at a MRT station (Kranji Station) near the Woodlands Checkpoint, there won't be much of an issue, plus its connected to the MRT network so no issue with transportation there. Sure visitors from Thailand and Malaysia will find it more inconvenient to get to the Singapore City Centre because of the need to transfer but its only a small price to pay to avoid a lot of complications...and raise the likelihood of the plan succeeding...

1. This isn't a intra-country rail arrangement like Taiwan and Japan where there is no issue of how much land is taken up because the govt still owns the land, not another country.

2. Plus unlike the UK etc, we don't really have a lot of land to spare.

3. We don't like overhead wires so obviously authorities if approve the project will likely want to minimise any of it, thus shortening the route. Unless policy changes that is.

The issue of overhead wires doesnt arise as Singapore doesnt have enough land above ground for a dedicated high speed railway track anyway. I dont think the existing railway track to Tanjong Pagar has the technical specifications to run these trains. Thefore, the dedicated railway lines will have to go underground. These trains need dedicated railway lines because they cannot be intefered by other slow moving trains. The Eurostar train runs on dedicated tracks.

They'd still have to settle immigration matters or come up with a special pass card. From the article, it seems like the high speed rail link is seamless KL city center to SIngapore city center (1 and a half hrs). Or would the link end at the immigration complex? and take a bus over to Singapore from there? Then it would defeat the purpose. I'm guessing they would come up with something like KL Sentral CAT and KLIA check-in procedures, only difference immigration would be involved. Then it would be sensible for seamless fast travel from center to center.

Immigration is best solved by stationing Singaporeans immigration officers in KL and vice versa. This applies to both Eurostar Terminals in Waterloo and Gare Du Nord. My passport was stamped by British immigration in Gare Du Nord before i boarded the Eurostar train.

This idea is not impossible. For me, i think i would prefer taking train than airplane to KL. However, its not up to us to decide. The government has their say. I dont think overhead wires is a problem. currently our railways also have wires hanging on poles. But i think is whether the government would want to build more railway cos we cant place the bullet trains on the current line right? So i dont think we have much space. Even the circle line took so long to complete.

i single ride ... three cities , seems beneficial to me !
Should this plan be implemented, it would greatly boost time saving between two major cities. I wouldnt be too worry abt whether its too expensive, i am rather interested with its plan to bypass JB. ( perhaps JB sentral )

The govt, the govt. that's quite tricky ain't it with past issues harping on. Then again, with cash-rich private companies coming into play, I guess and hope things will get a move on.

YTL in talks with KL govt to build rail link to S'pore
Straits Times Interactive, 5 July 2006


http://www.ytlcommunity.com/common/showimage.asp?imgid=56773

CUTTING A DEAL: Tan Sri Yeoh is optimistic about the project because of the
economic ties between Singapore and Malaysia, and plans to draw investors
from both countries. -- ARTHUR LEE/BT


Company expects to reach agreement on high-speed railway in two years, says MD

KUALA LUMPUR (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/04/bloomberg/sxytl.php) - YTL, owner of the railway from Malaysia's Kuala Lumpur International Airport to the city, said it is in talks with the Malaysian government for a high-speed rail link to Singapore.

The company plans to take the rail unit public to raise between RM6 billion and RM8 billion (S$2.6 billion to S$3.5 billion) to fund the project if it gets the concession for the line to Singapore, 300km from Kuala Lumpur.

'Our government is very serious about this and they're encouraging us to look at it,' Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, managing director of YTL, said in an interview last Friday in Singapore.

YTL expects to reach an agreement on the railway in two years, he said.

Press reports early this year said Malaysian officials were reviewing a plan to build a fast train connecting Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, which was first proposed in 1996.

Proponents of the rail link - which would cut travel time to two hours from the current six - said it could replace air travel as the main transport mode for businessmen and tourists and free the congested rail system in Malaysia for the movement of cargo to ports.

But Malaysian government officials then had said it would first need the backing of the Singapore Government, because the plan would require the acquisition of land in Singapore for laying new tracks.

'The traffic between the two countries is huge, so if you talk about the dollars and cents, there's a viable business to be done,' said Mr Scott Lim, fund manager with CMS Dresdner Asset Management. 'It's just whether there's a political will to make that happen.'

A political spat between Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and his predecessor, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, may hamper efforts to build the rail link, said Mr David Cohen, an economist at Action Economics in Singapore.

Malaysia in April decided to end talks for a new bridge linking the two countries to prevent both sides from becoming embroiled in endless political bickering and legal disputes.

Tun Dr Mahathir has criticised his successor for the decision, saying Malaysia had the legal right to build the bridge and scrapping the plan has cost the country billions of ringgit.

'It's a little tricky with the Causeway and the extra political wrangling in Kuala Lumpur, and how these would play into that,' Mr Cohen said. 'It just makes it a little more complicated and I wouldn't look for any quick resolution.'

Tan Sri Yeoh, 51, said he is optimistic because of the economic links between the two countries. He also plans to draw so-called cornerstone investors from both countries to take a larger stake in the project, including Singapore Airlines and Malaysia Airlines, as well as the two cities' airports, which he says should not see this as a threat.

'I'm sure there's demand for it,' said Mr Gerald Ambrose, a fund manager at Aberdeen Asset Management. YTL's 57km express rail from the airport to the Malaysian capital 'is extremely efficient, and everybody would be happier getting a fast link from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore' .

BLOOMBERG NEWS

YTL, which owns the railway from the KL airport to the city, plans to take the rail unit public to raise between RM6 billion and RM8 billion (S$2.6 billion to S$3.5 billion) to fund the project if it gets the concession for the line to Singapore

YTL in talks to build KL-S'pore fast rail link
Singapore Business Times, July 5, 2006
By PAULINE NG
IN KUALA LUMPUR

MALAYSIAN conglomerate YTL Corp is in discussions with the Malaysian government on a high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, its group managing director Francis Yeoh said yesterday.

In an interview with Bloomberg, Mr Yeoh indicated that the plan had the backing of the Malaysian government, which is keen to develop the South Johor Economic Region to drive economic activity and leverage on Singapore's two integrated resorts.

'This is one project that everyone knows can work. Our government is very serious about this and they're encouraging us to look at it,' he said.

A high-speed train would take two hours or so to cover the 300km between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Today's rail service takes seven hours.

Before he stepped down, former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad approved an electrified double-track rail line running 636km from north to south of the Peninsular. But the RM14.5 billion (S$6.2 billion) project was shelved by Abdullah Badawi after he took the reins of government in 2003. The line approved by Dr Mahathir was to have been funded by the government and built by a consortium involving Malaysian Mining Corp and Gamuda.

Mr Yeoh indicated yesterday that YTL would fund its line privately.

He said that if YTL is given the concession it will float its 50 per cent subsidiary Express Rail Link (ERL) to raise the RM6-8 billion needed.

ERL, which turned profitable in 2003, operates the non-stop KLIA Express from Kuala Lumpur Sentral to Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA) in Sepang, as well as a rapid-transit service that makes three stops at key towns along the route.

Mr Yeoh said he is confident that agreement on a rail link to Singapore could be reached in two years, but said political wrangling between Malaysia and Singapore on issues such as the location of Malaysia's Customs, Immigration and Quarantine facilities and land owned by Malaysian state railway Keretapi Tanah Melayu (KTM) would likely complicate matters.

Analysts said it would be a huge feather in YTL's cap if it can pull off the project - but noted that carriers serving the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore route could be affected. Mr Yeoh said he plans to offer these carriers and other parties like KTM and the operators of Changi Airport and KLIA stakes in the rail project.

It is not clear how the Singapore government will react to the idea, but YTL would need its agreement if new rail tracks are to be laid. There is considerable two-way traffic between both countries. Singaporeans are the biggest visitors to Malaysia, with over nine million arrivals last year.

Malaysia's National Physical Plan recommends a high-speed rail system that connects all the state capitals be built as part of a proposed integrated national transport system.

Copyright © 2005 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

YTL in Talks for Rail Link Between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore


July 4 (Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBFNLAGeq1tM&refer=)) -- YTL Corp., which owns the railway from Malaysia's Kuala Lumpur International Airport to the capital city, said it's in talks for a rail link to Singapore which may produce an agreement in two years.

The company plans to take the rail unit public to raise between 6 billion ringgit ($1.6 billion) and 8 billion ringgit to fund the project when it gets the concession for the new rail link to Singapore, an island-state at the southern tip of Malaysia 188 miles (300 kilometers) from Kuala Lumpur.

A share sale to fund the project ``will excite the capital market. I have got indications from a lot of fund managers around the world looking at it and saying it's a no-brainer,'' Francis Yeoh, managing director of YTL, said in an interview on June 30. ``This is one project that everybody knows can work. Our government is very serious about this and they're encouraging us to look at it.''

The project comes amid warmer ties between Malaysia and Singapore since Abdullah Ahmad Badawi took over as prime minister in October 2003. Both countries were part of a union until Singapore was expelled four decades go, and the two have disagreed over issues from the price of water from Malaysia to the site of a railway immigration checkpoint in the city-state.

The rail tracks into Singapore were set as early as 1913, the government's Malaysian Railway Web site showed, when both countries were under British rule. A direct rail link between Kuala Lumpur to Singapore would increase the convenience of commuters, as the current train takes about seven hours between both cities, almost twice the four-hour drive on the highway.

`Viable Business'

The flight time between both cities takes less than an hour. A total of 31 flights travel between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur daily, according to the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore.

``The traffic between the two countries is huge, so if you talk about the dollars and cents, there's a viable business to be done,'' said Scott Lim, who helps manage the equivalent of $273 million at CMS Dresdner Asset Management Sdn. in Kuala Lumpur. ``It's just whether there's a political will to make that happen.''

Relations between the two Southeast Asian countries suffered a setback in April when Malaysia decided to end talks for a new bridge linking the two to prevent both sides from becoming ``embroiled in endless political bickering and legal disputes.'' Malaysia argued the bridge was needed to relieve congestion on the existing causeway. Singapore said it wasn't cost-effective.

`Political Wrangling'

Former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has also criticized his successor for the decision, saying Malaysia had the legal right to build the bridge and scrapping the plan has cost the country billions of ringgit. The bridge or causeway may hurt plans for the proposed rail link.

``It's a little tricky with the causeway and the extra political wrangling in Kuala Lumpur, and how these would play into that,'' said David Cohen, an economist at Action Economics in Singapore. ``It just makes it a little more complicated and I wouldn't look for any quick resolution.''

Yeoh said he's optimistic because of the economic links between the two countries. He also plans to draw so-called cornerstone investors from both countries to take a larger stake in the project, including Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Malaysian Airline System Bhd., as well as the two cities' airports, which he says should not see this as a threat.

Investment

``The economic integration between Malaysia and Singapore and ASEAN as a region is very real and very necessary,'' he said. ``The moment we can have a project in place and there's an agreement by both governments to move ahead, we will list the company and we'd want to share the future with as many people as possible with vested interest.''

Cross-border investments have increased since Abdullah became prime minister. The Singapore government's investment holding company Temasek Holdings Pte has invested in Malaysian companies, including 5 percent of Telekom Malaysia Bhd., the nation's biggest phone company, which it bought for 1.6 billion ringgit.

Likewise, Telekom and parent Khazanah Nasional Bhd., the Malaysian government's investment company, also became the biggest shareholders of MobileOne Ltd., one of Singapore's three cellular-phone companies. Yeoh is counting on those ties and his bet on consumer needs to push his plan forward.

``I'm sure there's demand for it,'' said Gerald Ambrose, a fund manager at Aberdeen Asset Management, which manages more than $1 billion of Malaysian stocks. YTL's 57-kilometer express rail from the airport to the Malaysian capital ``is extremely efficient, and everybody would be happier getting a fast link from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore.''

JUL. 5 5:45 A.M. ET Malaysian conglomerate YTL Corp. has proposed building a high-speed bullet train link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore to cover the 325-kilometer (200-mile) journey in 90 minutes, a top executive said Wednesday.

YTL, one of Malaysia's biggest business houses, is already in talks with the two governments for the project, managing director Francis Yeoh told The Associated Press.

"We anticipate that in about two years time we should get approvals," he said. "The construction should take less than three years and it should all be up and running in less than five years" from now, he said.

The New Straits Times daily, which first reported the news on Wednesday, said the estimated 8 billion ringgit (US$2.2 billion; euro1.7 billion) venture would be the largest under the "private finance initiative" encouraged under Malaysia's latest five-year development plan.

Would you pay to take a ride on the bullet train to Singapore? If so, how much would you be prepared to pay for the service? Give your comments below.

If not mistaken, an hour and half bullet train trip in Tokyo cost about RM500.

I am sure not using maglev technology its too expensive.

Firstly I would like to point out that the graphics by the New Straits Times are factually wrong because Tan Sri Francis Yeoh did not mention anything about Maglev trains. Furthermore a Maglev train system would be prohibitively expensive and I don't think 8 billion RM would be suficient even to construct a quarter of the rail link ;)

In fact I would think that they might be using a similar rolling stock as the Express Rail Link that currently connects KL Sentral to KLIA. :yes:

Here are some quotes from the article and from Tan Sri himself:

Yeoh said the KL-Singapore fast rail link could be an extension of the Sentral-Kuala Lumpur International Airport train service that is currently operated by YTL majority-owned ExpressRail Link (ERL).


Under the YTL proposal, a new standard gauge railway line would have to be built across the southern states to accommodate trains with wider wheels that can travel at a speed of up to 350km per hour.

The metre-gauge railway lines currently used by Keretapi Tanah Melayu (KTM) can only accommodate trains with a smaller wheel size and a maximum speed of 140 km per hour.



And this strenghtened my theory:

A high-speed train would take two hours or so to cover the 300km between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Today's rail service takes seven hours.


Well.......I am not a mathematician but a simple calculation based on the time taken to travel from KL Sentral to KLIA using the current ERL, I could conclude that a slightly more than two hours journey could be made by the current rolling stocks of the ERL. ;) Perhaps they might consider using newer trains from Siemens :D

Personally I would prefer to take the train than to fly because flying short distance is quite a hassle. IN fact I would love to see a city centre to city centre rail connection as a transfer at Kranji would defeat its purpose :yes:

ON the overhead pantographs, I am very sure the Singaporean Govt wouldn't be approved over it. I've read the documents on the water supply dispute and one of the subject is the 'ugly overhead wires'. The Sg Govt proposes to have an underground tunnel that goes all the way to Tanjong Pagar so that the land at-grade would be of use but the construction cost had to be borned by KTM. KTM disagree citing the high cost. Then the rail connection to Kranji was proposed until the high-speed rail connection proposal failed to take off :(

Why not link the Malaysia states first instead of linking to Singapore? Since I think over the immigration complex, few more hours will be wasted just for custom clearance...

Why not link the Malaysia states first instead of linking to Singapore? Since I think over the immigration complex, few more hours will be wasted just for custom clearance...


Two words: Economically viability :yes:

The traffic between the two cities are tremendous ;)

Would you pay to take a ride on the bullet train to Singapore? If so, how much would you be prepared to pay for the service? Give your comments below.

If not mistaken, an hour and half bullet train trip in Tokyo cost about RM500.


Everything in Japan is expensive. :yes:

I would prefer to pay RM100 for the train ride. Max also RM150 ;)

Where would the train stop be? The old Malaysian Trainstation that Singapore so desperately wants? Also there must be a new bridge be built for a train and this is a very sensitive issue.

^^ I believe the bulk of the negotiation would be on the Singapore's side as well as the straits crossing. No details os of that yet so now all that we could do is to take wild guesses ;)

I do hope that the train stops at Tanjong Pagar (the old train station) because that is a very convenient downtown location. :yes:

If Both govts no in issue. Dual Guage can be used from JB to Tanjong Pagar sharing the track as KTMB . NO big problem arise.

If this goes ahead is trully a prayer come thru!only one condition the fare got to be reasonable!but the minute i hear the big 6 to 8 billion ringgit!here we go again!when i think of it it does not have to be the most modern system like the maglev just as long its FAST like may be 200-250kmh will do.If i can be in tg pagar under 2hrs from kl sentral for let say 90 to 130 RM i would not even think twice to go down for lunch appt and be back in KL by noon! bye bye MAS,SIA and AIR ASIA but then again i might be even be able to catch a cheap flight from changi!emm that might make the malaysian govt think twice before giving the green light for this project.

some maps to SIC.

http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl1.png
http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl2.png
http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl3.png
http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl4.png

Red is LCCT.
http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl5.png

Purple line is if the extension starts from the Salak Tinggi depot, as some has suggested in the Singaporean side forum. Thinking of twisting the purple rail link to make it closer to Sepang Int'l Circuit, but it's not in yet.
http://tamago.iespana.es/jun06/erl6.png

If this goes ahead is trully a prayer come thru!only one condition the fare got to be reasonable!but the minute i hear the big 6 to 8 billion ringgit!here we go again!when i think of it it does not have to be the most modern system like the maglev just as long its FAST like may be 200-250kmh will do.If i can be in tg pagar under 2hrs from kl sentral for let say 90 to 130 RM i would not even think twice to go down for lunch appt and be back in KL by noon! bye bye MAS,SIA and AIR ASIA but then again i might be even be able to catch a cheap flight from changi!emm that might make the malaysian govt think twice before giving the green light for this project.

You reminded me of something. The government will also have to take MAS into account before approving such a project. I think MAS is very dependent on the SIN- KL routes for it's profits given the huge number of flights between the two cities(half of MAS routes is making a loss). This project will exacarbate MAS financial position. I also have a feeling that they have to charge very high fares to make this project viable. It is actually cheaper to hop on a budget airline when you fly between Paris and London unless you are under 25. A one way fare on eurostar costs at least 100 pounds if you over 25 whereas you can get a budget flight for 60 pounds inclusive of taxes. I managed to get a one way eurostar ticket for 50 pounds because i am under 25.

PUTRAJAYA: The Transport Ministry will consider the feasibility of a bullet train service from the KL Sentral station to Singapore, if it receives such a proposal.

However, the ministry has yet to receive any such proposal from YTL Corp, Deputy Minister Datuk Seri Tengku Azlan Sultan Abu Bakar said yesterday.

"This is news to us," he said, referring to YTL’s idea for a high-speed train service that will take passengers from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore in 90 minutes.

"It may have been proposed to other people but definitely not to the (Transport) Ministry. It has not come to our attention yet."

He was commenting on a report in the New Straits Times yesterday that tycoon Tan Sri Francis Yeoh hoped to build and operate such a train service, which could cost as much as RM8 billion.

Yeoh, managing director of YTL Corp, said the Malaysian and Singaporean Governments had been informed of the proposal.

Tengku Azlan said numerous proposals had been received from many people offering ideas on ways to improve the transport sector.

"We will not pursue the proposal until we are confident that it is viable. Every proposal will be carefully studied. The same goes for this proposed (bullet train) project."

He said YTL, like other companies, was free to come up with proposals.

"If (the proposal) is something that we need to look into, we will do so. But so far we have not received any concrete proposal (from YTL). There are lots of areas in the sector where we need to beef up the services."

The NST report stated that, if approved, the project would be the largest on a private finance initiative (PFI) basis, as encouraged under the Ninth Malaysia Plan.

It added that construction would take three years, but it could be two years before the necessary cross-border approvals and land acquisition could be obtained.

Yeoh had said that if the project was approved, then YTL would go to the global capital market to raise the finance.

Opps "this is news to us" how very interesting respond from a govt spokesperson for a multi billion preposal!when the preposal is from a company like YTL!the govt for sure no money to built in the first place!whats the latest with the rawang ipoh double tracking project?emm what else is new!lets see private venture emm no toll so more well guys this is going be long long while before its going to be a reality sad but true thats how things get done here!

Oh, SIA and MAS have problems liao......:D

hee hee johnsonooi not so much SIA! more like MAS thats in trouble!its used to be "mana ada system now even worse "mana ada service"these days they simply campak you cold buns !even some of the buses to singapore offer better service on board!what a shame!alamak sudah lari dari topic hee hee

guys...the japanese maglev on that picture are not even built in japan due to the high cost!!and it is not practical compared to shinkanseng.and the technology is still new......wow malaysians are over ambitious!!!

guys...the japanese maglev on that picture are not even built in japan due to the high cost!!and it is not practical compared to shinkanseng.and the technology is still new......wow malaysians are over ambitious!!!


Read my previous post and you would know that NST published the wrong picture.

Yea........even the super expensive Shinkansen is much cheaper than a Maglev ;)

Oh, SIA and MAS have problems liao......:D


If you really read the articles, you would know that the YTL lead initiative would be inviting SIA and MAS to be stakeholders to developed this project. :yes:

hee hee johnsonooi not so much SIA! more like MAS thats in trouble!its used to be "mana ada system now even worse "mana ada service"these days they simply campak you cold buns !even some of the buses to singapore offer better service on board!what a shame!alamak sudah lari dari topic hee hee


I think you over exaggerate here lah. I've been on both buses and flights to Sg and I've experienced better service on air. Although they only serve drinks aboard the flight (what else you want?.....its a 45-minutes shuttle flight lah), they still beat the ice-cold nasi lemak and nasi Goreng that I got from Aeroline, Plusliner and Mara Exec buses :yes: Others like Konsortium doesn't even serve makan on board but their seats are wonderful. ONly the KL-bound ones have a snack packs ;)

Service on-board these buses? What service? :D You're lucky that they campak buns to you on MAS......I've been on buses that they won't even campak....they pretend you are not there and you have to ask for your food :ohno:

Why KL to Singapore ? We need KL to Penang or KL to KB. Think Malaysia first.

btw...i really think this project will benefit regional's economy...just like japan...we can see why today's japan are in top player of railway technology...bcoz they emphasis on it since the meiji period!and now....people use train more than cars!

i need train from KL to Kuantan! :hahaha:

Why KL to Singapore ? We need KL to Penang or KL to KB. Think Malaysia first.


Think money my friend! :D

The scale and the cost of a high speed track is no joke. This is a Private Initiative and it had to be profitable. Only KL-Sg had the mass of travellers (well heeded ones somemore) that could support the rail line.

KL-Penang is still possible but I doubt people would wanna pay more than RM100 for a train ride loh.......KL-KB? It would be a huge white elephant.....that's the last thing I wanna see ;)

Interruption, interruption

We, Malaysians like to cross railway lines rather than taking a bridge, arent we?

on the other hand, I really really like to ride on bullet train to Singapore!!!!!!!!

the closest relative in my family who ever took this train (from Osaka to Tokyo) is my dad when he was in Japan...and i want to feel the same experience as him in Malaysia ( and onwards to Singapore)

emm ada mas lawyer here!the shuttle flights i dont have a problem with not getting the service rightfully so but its long hauls one that make me sakit hatilah i recently flew to melbourne alamak macam naik baslah!Cant really blame the flight attendants they only dishout what they havelah who knows next time the give maggi mee cup with hot water ha ha.here we go again off the the topic trully i really would like to see this thing be a reality sometime in our life time i do see my self bela lembu and ayam somewhere in tampin when i one retire after feeding them in the morning take the train to kl for lunch and back to tampin all under 3 hrs for a mere lets say 30 ringgit round trip!wishful thinking ,perhaps ha ha may be go bts do some shopping at wal mart ha ha

emm ada mas lawyer here!the shuttle flights i dont have a problem with not getting the service rightfully so but its long hauls one that make me sakit hatilah i recently flew to melbourne alamak macam naik baslah!Cant really blame the flight attendants they only dishout what they havelah who knows next time the give maggi mee cup with hot water ha ha.here we go again off the the topic trully i really would like to see this thing be a reality sometime in our life time i do see my self bela lembu and ayam somewhere in tampin when i one retire after feeding them in the morning take the train to kl for lunch and back to tampin all under 3 hrs for a mere lets say 30 ringgit round trip!wishful thinking ,perhaps ha ha may be go bts do some shopping at wal mart ha ha


Hahaha.....I wish can be MAS' lawyer......jadi kaya gile! :D

But that is what I experience mah. Erm.....bad inflight food eh?

I am not a food expert not I am a strong critic of food, but I am one person that are fine with airplane food. I always enjoy em until I boarded a TWA flight in the states.....seriously lah.....the US domestic flights sucks big time man. Either they served you NOTHING at all (Delta Airlines twice for 2 hours flight) or they give you a lousy 'brick-like' burger and a can of Coke. MAS' is like food heaven man compared to em. Not only that......my one and an a half hour flight from Bangkok, they even served a full meal (and I even asked for an extra meal .....well....that is another story for another thread hehehe).

To be honest, MAS' food is not too good and not too bad. The best airline food for me is EVA Air of Taiwan.......their food is really like a restaurant punya but that was like 6 years back so I dunno their quality now. Qantas also not too bad but their 744 quality is like a grandpa....rattlign here and there wan. However that was like 5 yrs ago the last time I am on em ;)


YOur dream seems far-fetched.....well......I hope we could achive that but most likely high-speed trains wouldn't stop at non-big-city stops :yes:

Interruption, interruption

We, Malaysians like to cross railway lines rather than taking a bridge, arent we?

on the other hand, I really really like to ride on bullet train to Singapore!!!!!!!!

the closest relative in my family who ever took this train (from Osaka to Tokyo) is my dad when he was in Japan...and i want to feel the same experience as him in Malaysia ( and onwards to Singapore)

Hahaha......yea......I've been on a Maglev before (Transrapid Shanghai) but only for 7 mins.....with speed tops at 431km/h. That is faster than the fastest conventional 'bullet trains' which is the TGV Atlantique line which goes at around 330km/h :yes:

The ride was so fantastic that I craved for more. However it is too expensive to be implemented for the KL-Sg route :(


I dun think we have to worry about people crossing tracks. High speed trains have very secured fencing and I believe people are aware how fast and silent these beasts are! :D

Hahaha.....I wish can be MAS' lawyer......jadi kaya gile! :D

But that is what I experience mah. Erm.....bad inflight food eh?

I am not a food expert not I am a strong critic of food, but I am one person that are fine with airplane food. I always enjoy em until I boarded a TWA flight in the states.....seriously lah.....the US domestic flights sucks big time man. Either they served you NOTHING at all (Delta Airlines twice for 2 hours flight) or they give you a lousy 'brick-like' burger and a can of Coke. MAS' is like food heaven man compared to em. Not only that......my one and an a half hour flight from Bangkok, they even served a full meal (and I even asked for an extra meal .....well....that is another story for another thread hehehe).

To be honest, MAS' food is not too good and not too bad. The best airline food for me is EVA Air of Taiwan.......their food is really like a restaurant punya but that was like 6 years back so I dunno their quality now. Qantas also not too bad but their 744 quality is like a grandpa....rattlign here and there wan. However that was like 5 yrs ago the last time I am on em ;)


YOur dream seems far-fetched.....well......I hope we could achive that but most likely high-speed trains wouldn't stop at non-big-city stops :yes:

Off topic but yes EVA Air's food actually tastes quite good...SQ too...

I dun think we have to worry about people crossing tracks. High speed trains have very secured fencing and I believe people are aware how fast and silent these beasts are! :D
hello szehoong. been seeing ur posts everywhere... :)

the current ERL rail is totally fenced up. no way u let ppl cross tracks on 160kph trains that run, on average, 6 to 8 trips an hour. :runaway:

How about Penang to Singapore via KL ?

I don`t object this idea of bullet train service but the existing tracks must be upgraded first. How can we make train as no.1 mean of transport among M`sians ?

more points of view

YTL's High-Speed Train Should End At JB, Say Johorians
General
July 07, 2006 19:24 PM
JOHOR BAHARU, July 7 (Bernama) -- Johorians have called on YTL Corporation Bhd to revise its fast-train proposal connecting Kuala Lumpur and Singapore as they are convinced there will be obstacles coming from the republic.

They say if the government agrees to bring up the plan for discussion with Singapore, there will be a repeat of the episode which had brought negotiations over the Johor Causeway replacement project to a deadlock.

This is because of the republic's attitude of always demanding quid pro quo, they say.

Gelang Patang Umno division chief Abdul Aziz Sapian said he was sure Singapore would impose various conditions before agreeing to the project to ensure it obtained multiple gains from it.

"That is why we suggest to the government for the company's proposal to only connect Kuala Lumpur and Johor Baharu.

"If it were to reach Singapore, we will face various difficulties. The price to get the republic's proposal will be very expensive. Therefore, it is better that we forget Singapore's involvement," he said.

Johor Chinese Chamber of Commerce and Industry deputy president Datuk Soh Poh Seng supported the idea of having the high-speed train ending at Johor Baharu.

He said that based on historical factors and previous experiences, Singapore was not a partner ready to cooperate, especially in projects worth billions of ringgit.

"Why should someone in Malaysia struggle to provide a service which in the end will bring benefits and profits to Singapore?" he asked.

Johor Baharu Member of Parliament Datuk Shahrir Samad, who is chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, recently said if efforts to get Singapore to agree took a long time, it was better for the bullet train to only connect Kuala Lumpur and Johor Baharu.

The New Straits Times last Wednesday quoted YTL Corporation managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh as saying that the company planned to introduce the RM8 billion fast-train link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore which would cut travelling time to only 90 minutes.

Businessman Mohd Salleh Ali, 35, questioned the intention behind the project.

"With the fast-train service, will it make Johor Baharu less attractive to Singaporeans? Will their tourism money shift to Kuala Lumpur after this? These are questions that need answers," he said.

After what happened to the negotiation over the bridge project, he is sure that the republic would take advantage by imposing various conditions before agreeing to the project.

The Singapore government Thursday issued a short statement saying that it had not discussed with Kuala Lumpur over any proposal to have a fast-train service between the two countries.
-- BERNAMA

How about Penang to Singapore via KL ?

I don`t object this idea of bullet train service but the existing tracks must be upgraded first. How can we make train as no.1 mean of transport among M`sians ?


Wah that would double the amount they are gonne use man :eek: Some people even doubted that they could come out with the financing for the KL-Sg route......you somemore want to double that ar?

Even the upgrading of existing tracks proved to be a financial burden what more a high speed train. It is not easy to and certainly not an overnight effort to 'convert' the entire nation into a train-taking nation loh.

Take for example.....why do I still drive to Penang although I hate driving on highways? By flying AirAsia and taking an express bus it is certainly cheaper right? Well.....it is because when you reach Penang, the public transportation there is questionable so I still need my car. That is why I always drive there (unless Pablo and TYW can tour me around my entire duration there lah hehehe).

So sometimes it is not the journey but the destination determines if I should be driving there or not. Singapore for example .....I only drove there once. And most of the time my car is like sitting in the hotel's carpark because I took the buses and the MRT there. In fact the reason why I drove there is because it was a last minute thingy and bus schedules couldn't accommodate my weird timing. :yes:

YTL CORP GETS APPROVAL FOR BULLET-TRAIN FEASIBILITY STUDY - REPORT
07-07-2006
AFX
By Aipeng Soo


KUALA LUMPUR (XFN-ASIA) - The government has agreed to allow YTL Corp Bhd and its consortium to conduct a feasibility study on a bullet-train service, transport minister Chan Kong Choy was quoted by the New Straits Times as saying.

Chan said the ministry has informally given the consortium the go ahead, and is still waiting for detailed proposals from YTL and its consortium partners.

He added that the new train service would probably start with a fresh line or use the existing Express Rail Link line to Kuala Lumpur International Airport.

According to the newspaper, YTL Corp is proposing to build an eight bln rgt high speed rail link to neighboring Singapore.

YTL Corp. to submit study on Malaysia train
MSN Money, July 06, 2006 05:57 AM ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) - Malaysian conglomerate YTL Corp. will submit a feasibility study to the Transport Ministry soon on plans to build a high-speed bullet train link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, a top executive said Thursday.

YTL managing director Francis Yeoh said he has spoken to Transport Minister Chan Kong Choy, who wanted to know whether the bullet train link to cover the 325-kilometer (200-mile) journey in 90 minutes was possible.

"It is a feasible project. We will be submitting a detailed report on it soon," he told The Associated Press, but didn't give any timeframe.

Yeoh was rebutting comments by Deputy Transport Minister Tengku Azlan Abu Bakar who was quoted as saying in Thursday's New Straits Times that the ministry was not aware of YTL's proposal.

Yeoh told the AP on Wednesday that the company was already in talks with the Malaysian and Singapore governments, and hopes to begin construction in two years. The plan is to complete the estimated 8 billion ringgit (US$2.2 billion; euro1.7 billion) project in less than 5 years.

He said the company plans to raise funds for the project through the global capital market.

The Kuala Lumpur-Singapore link could connect with an express train from the Kuala Lumpur International Airport, which is also run by YTL, to the city train terminal, he said.

Singapore, located across the Johor Strait at the southern tip of the Malaysian peninsula, is connected with Kuala Lumpur by air, road and a diesel train on a meter-gauge track built in 1913 by British colonial rulers.

Flights between the two cities are 45 minutes long, while buses take about four hours to cover the distance on the modern North-South Expressway that runs the length of the country.

YTL's companies are involved in a range of businesses including power generation, real estate, construction, cement manufacturing. It also owns several shopping malls, resorts and hotels such as the JW Marriott Hotel in Kuala Lumpur.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Transport Minister confirms YTL asked to look at KL-S'pore rail link
Kuala Lumpur, 6 July 2006

Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy today confirmed that the Ministry had indeed asked YTL Corporation Berhad to conduct a study and submit a proposal for an express rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

The Minister said YTL had indicated informally that the project is feasible and therefore his ministry had asked for the construction consortium to provide a detailed financial and engineering proposal.

YTL Corporation managing director Tan Sri (Dr) Francis Yeoh grabbed attention of international news yesterday when Malaysian daily New Straits Times (NST) front-paged an interview where Yeoh spoke about the project that would enable travellers to shuttle between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore in 90 minutes.

The news created widespread excitement across the world as news agencies circulated the interview. Among the various positive responses to the NST report included one from Yong PF of Petaling Jaya who wrote: "If there is a bullet train that can take me to Singapore in 90 minutes safely, count me as a regular. I travel almost on a monthly basis to Singapore as flying is such a hassle, now that KLIA is 50 minutes away. Taking a bus is such a pain as it takes forever! Albeit, it is really cost effective. Taking a train from Sentral would be ideal. Round trip, I would pay RM400 thereabouts."

Sylvester of Johor Bahru wrote to NST, saying: "With this bullet train service, we can stay in KL and travel to work in Singapore every day. It will also boost the economy of both KL and Singapore as citizens can travel more often between both points without the headache of the never-ending traffic jam at the causeway."

Peter Lim who wrote in from Dunedin, New Zealand said: "I think this new High Speed Express Train between KL to Singapore will help to reduce the use of cars and travel by flight and buses, it will then make your daily travel trip so that it will save time on accommodation. It will be fast so that commuters who go to work or holiday can travel anytime or daily, whenever they need to. This High Speed Express train will the best for the future."

This morning, a leading Chinese radio station in Malaysia, Radio Redi on 98.8FM's morning show featured listeners who called in or sent phone messages to discuss the proposal for the bullet train. A caller, Jeff, said the idea was pretty good, adding that the connectivity would bring an increase of tourists. He hoped the bullet train would offer a luxurious travel and travellers would be willing to fork out the money to experience the unique mode of transport.

Across the Causeway, the Singaporean Straits Times quoted CMS Dresdner Asset Management fund manager Scott Lim: "The traffic between the two countries is huge, so if you talk about the dollars and cents, there's a viable business to be done."

"I'm sure there's demand for it," said Gerald Ambrose, a fund manager at Aberdeen Asset Management. YTL's 57km express rail from the airport to the Malaysian capital "is extremely efficient, and everybody would be happier getting a fast link from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore."

The NST report stated, if approved, the project would be the largest on a private finance initiative (PFI) basis, as encouraged under the Ninth Malaysia Plan.

It added that construction would take three years, but it could be two years before the necessary cross-border approvals and land acquisition could be obtained.

Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy's statement corrected NST’s article today, which reported that the Transport Ministry had not received the said proposal.

In a quick telephone interview, Yeoh said YTL Corp will be submitting the detailed proposal to the Ministry soon.

Actually if all else fails, liberising the air traffic between KL and Singapore works as well, might be even better because the flight is only 1 hour....:D

Actually if all else fails, liberising the air traffic between KL and Singapore works as well, might be even better because the flight is only 1 hour....:D

But will the Msian/Sing govt allow LCCs like AirAsia to take over/share this MAS/SIA very lucrative route?

Still, I think to have the train link as an alternative is a better idea...at least not all will take flights right? Our govt may most probably approve it (since it is funded privately)...but not too sure with Singapore.

At one time, the ERL aso ppl say is expensive...now also ok wert got alot of passenger. So i guess YTL knows well how to do the pricing if it wins the bid.

Imagine how this project can create economic spinoffs for Malaysia? Dreams of Japan in the making...hahaha:)

lol, i dream of YTL uses the ICE train from Germany for that high speed rail link

At one time, the ERL aso ppl say is expensive...now also ok wert got alot of passenger. So i guess YTL knows well how to do the pricing if it wins the bid.

Imagine how this project can create economic spinoffs for Malaysia? Dreams of Japan in the making...hahaha:)

as usual..malaysian always demanding a first world infrustructure...later when it comes to pricing....mahallah..itulah...inilah...always complaining.for example,the ERL, i think rm35 is reasonable due to the maintenance cost.so the problem is, our PPP is still low.....so guys if we want the canggih canggih things...kerja lebih lah!

I just want to ask the experts, is this project economic viable, is most of the Malaysian benefited from this???:)

Off topic but yes EVA Air's food actually tastes quite good...SQ too...

Eva air even serve porridge on some of their transpacific flights. Dont know any other airline that offers that kind of service.

YTL to submit RM8b bullet train proposal to Govt soon
July 22 2006
BusinessTimes (http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BT/Saturday/Corporate/BT578440.txt/Article/)


Managing director Datuk Francis Yeoh Sock Ping believes the project is viable
and must start now, otherwise 'we could have lost a golden opportunity'


THE YTL Group will submit a proposal containing the financial and engineering aspects on the RM8 billion bullet train project between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore to the Government as soon as possible.

Managing director Datuk Francis Yeoh Sock Ping in an interview with TV3's "The Exchange" yesterday said he believed the project was viable and must start now.

"If we do not implement this and physically put it on the ground within five years, I think we could have lost a golden opportunity," he said.

Yeoh said it would take two years to iron out the process and another three years to build it physically, and this would be on fast-track basis.

Furthermore, he said, it would not be difficult to raise the financing which was considered a done deal given the viability of the project and YTL saw no problem finding serious fund managers and investors.

Yeoh said the need to start the project fast was, firstly, the technology was cheap, the land cost currently affordable and it would be environmental-friendly, running on electricity.

"Technology cost in South-East Asia is cheap. YTL was successful in building the ERL (Express Rail Link) which was considered the cheapest fast train in the world at RM5 million per km as against an average RM150 million elsewhere," he said.

Yeoh said land cost given by the Government, especially the corridors, were not expensive today and as a package, the Government would pass this to the consumers, accounting for why the ERL charge from the city to the airport was only RM35.

"In the case of the fast train, the corridors to Singapore are not expensive as compared to the land cost in Europe which is higher than technology cost in order to avoid the development area. Also, as the train will run on electricity, the project will benefit Tenaga Nasional Bhd and the independent power producers," he said.

On whether the connection to Singapore would be a bridge or underground tunnel, he said, "we are not hostage to civil engineering or geography. We understand the complication of the present environment in discussions between Malaysia and Singapore.

"We would avoid some of these difficulties. We have a solution," he said.

On whether he foresees problems getting the approval from Singapore, Yeoh said: "I do not say it is going to be easy but I would say that geo-economics are more important than geopolitics especially when there is opportunity and there is the money to do it," he said. - Bernama

The Star Online > Focus

Friday July 28, 2006



Don’t rush bullet train

I WISH to highlight some issues on bullet trains that have been constructed in developed countries, and YTL ought to learn from their mistakes before embarking on the Maglev train line project between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

In Europe, Eurotunnel Group built the Eurostar tunnel and rail between London and Paris. However, the company underestimated the construction period, costs and projection.

It delivered the product one year behind schedule and was unable to pay its creditors.

As of 2005, it was £6bil in debt and its shares had fallen by 98% in value.

In Japan, the Japan National Railway (JNR) was involved in building the Shinkansen, one of the best known bullet train lines in Japan, and it was also not spared from financial difficulties due to poor planning and estimation.

As a result, in 1988, some of the planned lines for the Shinkansen were scrapped due to JNR's debt of over ¥25 trillion, which led the Japanese government to intervene to save the company.

In South Korea, Korea Train Express (KTX) had established a bullet train service in 2004, but was unable to get back its profits at the allocated time as ridership did not reach expected projections.

This created an opportunity for selfish South Korean politicians to politicise the issue.

In France, TGV (train à grande vitesse) had successfully expanded to more than 150 destinations.

TGV may have avoided the problem of financial difficulties due to thorough R&D, but the expansion process created stations (e.g. Haute Picardie) that were either too far from town or any transportation link, and inconvenienced the public.

ICE or Intercity City Express from Germany had high-speed trains established all over their states and also to other countries in Europe.

However, the Eschede Train Disaster in 1998, which was considered the worst passenger train accident, served as a reminder of the importance of incorporating safety and maintenance measures in train operations to avoid costly accidents.

It is hoped that YTL will take note of these mistakes and learn from them so that these will not happen in Malaysia.

It is also hoped that YTL will take thorough, prudent and realistic steps in its planning and estimation before submitting this complex and costly proposal to the Government.



HERBERT,

Glasgow, Scotland.

if this turns out, do you think the YTL should add JB as a stop? Sort of makes sense.

The proposed KL-Singapore bullet train is promising for YTL
05-08-2006
The Star
By TEE LIN SAY


IN early July, YTL Corp Bhd stirred some excitement when it was announced that the company was proposing to build and operate a high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore that will cut travel time to 90 minutes.

That plan came a step closer to fruition over the week when the Government commissioned a study on the proposal.

The project is expected to cost RM8bil and if it is approved, it will likely be funded on a private finance initiate basis. Undeniably, a direct rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore would enhance the convenience for commuters, as the current train takes about seven hours between both cities essentially due to the many stops along the way. That is almost twice the almost four-hour journey on the normal highway.

YTL Corp managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh mentioned that it would take two years to iron out the process and another three years to build it on a fast-track basis.

He did not see financing as a problem, given the viability of the project and felt that there would be no problem seeking interested fund managers and investors.

But even before the project can get its go-ahead, some market analysts have rushed off research reports on the company's promising outlook.

Assuming a conservative 3% margin, an Avenue Securities analyst says that YTL Corp is poised to gain about RM80mil annually or 5 sen earnings per share over the likely three years construction period.

She foresees growth for the group would come from future increases in Wessex Water¨s tariff rate and the proposed KL-Singapore bullet train as well as mergers and acquisitions of regulated assets.

＾Despite its high gearing, YTL Corp has a cash hoard of RM6bil and an interest cover of 2 times (x). YTL may go on an acquisition spree, which includes acquiring power plants in Indonesia and Singapore. We also do not discount the likelihood of YTL participating in construction projects within the region, says the analyst.

In her note, the analyst says that YTL Corp¨s valuations are undemanding as the stock is trading at the lower end of its historical price earnings ratio and price to book value range. It has also underperformed the Kuala Lumpur Composite Index by 8.4% year-to-date.

An analyst from a foreign house agrees and highlights that YTL Corp is one of the least expensive big-cap stocks, with a two-year profit compounded annual growth rate of 11%.

For the nine months to March 2006, revenue increased 8.4% to RM3.95bil while net profit increased 2.68x to RM1.2bil.

The improvement in profits includes an exceptional gain of RM643.6mil from the disposal of three properties to the Starhill Real Estate Investment (Starhill REIT) Trust which was listed on the main board of Bursa Malaysia Bhd in December 2005.

Even with the exclusion of this exceptional gain, pre-tax profit still registered an increase of 25.3% to RM1.19bil for the nine months ended March 2006 compared with the same period last year.

On another positive note, Starhill REIT posted after-tax income of RM35.91mil for the year ended June 30, and has exceeded its initial public offering profit forecast of RM32.3mil by 11.15%.

This was achieved on a revenue of RM50.74mil. A distribution of 3.45 sen per unit, representing 100% of Starhill REIT's income after taxation, has been recommended.

Starhill REIT comprises Starhill Gallery, Lot 10 Shopping Complex and the JW Mariott Hotel.

Avenue Securities is projecting YTL Corp to achieve a net profit of RM1.83bil for its financial year ended June 2006. At the current price of RM4.90, the stock is trading at a mere price earnings ratio of 4.08x. The stock is also supported by a dividend yield of approximately 3.1%.

The analyst from Avenue adds that the current share price consolidation offers an excellent opportunity for investors to accumulate.

＾Given the group¨s wide range of business divisions, Avenue Securities values YTL Corp based on a sum-of-parts method and arrives at a 12-month target price of RM5.95 per share.

＾The continuous share buy-back strategy should limit downside risk. A re-rating of the stock is expected with the announcement of any acquisition of regulated assets,￣ says the analyst from Avenue Securities.

The company has been on an active share buyback programme. As of August 1, the company has 131.19 million net outstanding treasury shares. Analysts believe that YTL Corp will redistribute its treasury shares as a share dividend.

YTL Corp is one of Malaysia¨s leading integrated infrastructure conglomerates. It owns and manages regulated assets with long-term concessions globally.

Close to 80% of YTL Corp¨s earnings before interest and taxation derived from its 58.6%-owned subsidiary, YTL Power International Bhd.

Latest:
Jalur Mudra eyes KL-Singapore high-speed train project
By Ravi Nambiar
August 9 2006
BusinessTimes

Jalur Mudra is proposing to run its 'maglev' or magnetic levitation trains along the route of the North-South Expressway

A NEW player is proposing to build an alternative high-speed train service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, with stops in Seremban, Malacca and Johor Baru.

Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd, which is eyeing the project, said its "maglev" or magnetic levitation trains will run along the route of the North-South Expressway.

"With speeds of up to 500km per hour, we can cover the entire route of about 350km within an hour," said company chairman Datuk Rashidi Mohd Noor.

He said Jalur Mudra, which is building Johor Baru's monorail system, was keen to meet Transport Ministry and Works Ministry officials to sell the idea.

"We believe this is a viable and cheaper alternative as it involves no land acquisition," he said.

He said if approved, the dual-elevated maglev train tracks could be built in the median point of the Nouth-South Expressway within two to three years.

Rashidi could not immediately ascertain the total cost of such a train service, but added that Jalur Mudra's own estimation was that it could build and operate such a service at 40 per cent below the cost of a conventional high-speed train.

"We believe this service, with stops at major towns, will offer more benefits and be a boon for tourism," he said.

YTL Corp and its consortium have been given the green light by the Government to proceed with a feasibility study on a conventional high-speed train service from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore.

However, it is still not known if this private finance initiative will involve a fresh line, the Express Rail Link line to Kuala Lumpur International Airport or the existing KTM track.

According to YTL Corp managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, commuters can be whisked between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur in 90 minutes. The cost of the project is estimated at RM8 billion.

Rashidi said while conventional high-speed trains have to run on straight tracks, the maglev system allows for bends and sharp corners along the North-South Expressway at high speeds.

He said a similar system is already in operation in Shanghai, China.

"What we are saying is that we can offer a viable alternative to YTL Corp's proposal at a substantially lower cost. But we can also complement YTL Corp's train as ours will stop at all main towns," he said.

Rashidi said Jalur Mudra is prepared to make a firm proposal to the Government soon.

Latest:
Jalur Mudra eyes KL-Singapore high-speed train project
By Ravi Nambiar
August 9 2006
BusinessTimes

Jalur Mudra is proposing to run its 'maglev' or magnetic levitation trains along the route of the North-South Expressway

"What we are saying is that we can offer a viable alternative to YTL Corp's proposal at a substantially lower cost. But we can also complement YTL Corp's train as ours will stop at all main towns," he said.

Rashidi said Jalur Mudra is prepared to make a firm proposal to the Government soon.

How's that possible? How can the train stop at all main towns when the North-South Expressway doesn't run through the main town?

Instead of running in parallel to the expressway, why don't built the maglev track parallel to the current train track? For sure, the train will pass all major towns as currently there is a train station in almost all major towns.

1. maglev train is german technology. they hav built in shanghai, but that is 1 of the most expensive train ever built. pls dont fight for the 1st maglev train in SEA title, that is stupid. maglev train technology is expensive in technology n maintenance. should hav a train that can provide good service at affortable price, n good maintenance. malaysia hav a lot of 1st class infrastructure, but after a while, it become 3rd world + low class bcos of bad maintenance.

2. y the bullet train should stop at every major town? it should just stop at sg, jb, melaka n kl. if it stop at every major town, how long will it take to kl from sg/ jb? i rather take a bus at that time.

3. pls dont repeat the mistake like lrt. private sector go to propose n built the lrt. as a result, there a few line with different system, different technology, different operator but same in poor maintenance n bad service. , when it loss money, the gov will take back. that is wasting the tax payer $$$. the important selection criteria should be based on which company can promise to provide a good bullet train at affodable fee n at thier own funding , n not bcos of who n who connected to which politician n using public $$ for it.

5. bullet train should not b used as a political issue. whats wrong if the train go into singapore? y should the train just stop at jb? singapore n kl is both major city in asia, so the traffic between the 2 city is huge. if the train just stop at jb, for people staying in singapore, i wont take 170 to jb n take the train. for people in jb, i believe they wont pay more than rm100 to take train to kl. bullet train should b used to connect the 2 city, allowing more business n tourist, n not for the politician as they tools to get vote.

Maglev in shanghai .. expansive .. because it was the first ever commercial maglev system in the world. hence, everything from planning, development, manpower and etc contributed to the cost. It should be noted that the total $1.2B Shanghai maglev project indicated includes one-time capital costs such as manufacturing and construction facilities and operational training, largely distorting the per-mile costs of the short track. It is predicted that the per-mile costs of the extension to Hangzhou will be significantly lower.

More importantly, long term planning....... maglevs are significantly less expensive to operate and maintain (O&M) than traditional high-speed trains, planes or intercity buses. The data coming out of the Shanghai maglev demonstration project indicates that O&M costs are quite low, and are indeed covered by the current relatively low volume of 7,000 passengers per day.

Why not make it stop at every major towns/cities? They can always divide the ops into commuter, intercity or express (non stop) ...by this way they can maximise the track, income, train and etc. Good example ERL Transit/ERL Ekspres.

Latest:
Jalur Mudra eyes KL-Singapore high-speed train project
By Ravi Nambiar
August 9 2006
BusinessTimes

Jalur Mudra is proposing to run its 'maglev' or magnetic levitation trains along the route of the North-South Expressway

A NEW player is proposing to build an alternative high-speed train service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, with stops in Seremban, Malacca and Johor Baru.

Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd, which is eyeing the project, said its "maglev" or magnetic levitation trains will run along the route of the North-South Expressway.

"With speeds of up to 500km per hour, we can cover the entire route of about 350km within an hour," said company chairman Datuk Rashidi Mohd Noor.

He said Jalur Mudra, which is building Johor Baru's monorail system, was keen to meet Transport Ministry and Works Ministry officials to sell the idea.

"We believe this is a viable and cheaper alternative as it involves no land acquisition," he said.

He said if approved, the dual-elevated maglev train tracks could be built in the median point of the Nouth-South Expressway within two to three years.

Rashidi could not immediately ascertain the total cost of such a train service, but added that Jalur Mudra's own estimation was that it could build and operate such a service at 40 per cent below the cost of a conventional high-speed train.

"We believe this service, with stops at major towns, will offer more benefits and be a boon for tourism," he said.

YTL Corp and its consortium have been given the green light by the Government to proceed with a feasibility study on a conventional high-speed train service from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore.

However, it is still not known if this private finance initiative will involve a fresh line, the Express Rail Link line to Kuala Lumpur International Airport or the existing KTM track.

According to YTL Corp managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, commuters can be whisked between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur in 90 minutes. The cost of the project is estimated at RM8 billion.

Rashidi said while conventional high-speed trains have to run on straight tracks, the maglev system allows for bends and sharp corners along the North-South Expressway at high speeds.

He said a similar system is already in operation in Shanghai, China.

"What we are saying is that we can offer a viable alternative to YTL Corp's proposal at a substantially lower cost. But we can also complement YTL Corp's train as ours will stop at all main towns," he said.

Rashidi said Jalur Mudra is prepared to make a firm proposal to the Government soon.

That statement by a CEO does not immediately lead one to have a lot of faith in the company. If he gives a press statement, he should be prepared with answers, esp one as basic as cost.

How's that possible? How can the train stop at all main towns when the North-South Expressway doesn't run through the main town?

Instead of running in parallel to the expressway, why don't built the maglev track parallel to the current train track? For sure, the train will pass all major towns as currently there is a train station in almost all major towns.That would definitely help to guarantee passengers but a high speed train cannot stop in all the towns...at least if the HSR is running alongside KTM, then people can uses buses or KTM to make the connecting journey to the major cities....

I dont see how Melaka could be connected to the High Speed Railway...but a spur line should be built on the KTM railway to get to Melaka Sentral...I also think that a reconnection of service to Port Dickson would be useful...especially since they have lost their bus service.

Cheers, m

Latest:
Jalur Mudra eyes KL-Singapore high-speed train project
By Ravi Nambiar
August 9 2006
BusinessTimes

Jalur Mudra is proposing to run its 'maglev' or magnetic levitation trains along the route of the North-South Expressway

A NEW player is proposing to build an alternative high-speed train service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, with stops in Seremban, Malacca and Johor Baru.

Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd, which is eyeing the project, said its "maglev" or magnetic levitation trains will run along the route of the North-South Expressway.

"With speeds of up to 500km per hour, we can cover the entire route of about 350km within an hour," said company chairman Datuk Rashidi Mohd Noor.

He said Jalur Mudra, which is building Johor Baru's monorail system, was keen to meet Transport Ministry and Works Ministry officials to sell the idea.

"We believe this is a viable and cheaper alternative as it involves no land acquisition," he said.

He said if approved, the dual-elevated maglev train tracks could be built in the median point of the Nouth-South Expressway within two to three years.

Rashidi could not immediately ascertain the total cost of such a train service, but added that Jalur Mudra's own estimation was that it could build and operate such a service at 40 per cent below the cost of a conventional high-speed train.

"We believe this service, with stops at major towns, will offer more benefits and be a boon for tourism," he said.

YTL Corp and its consortium have been given the green light by the Government to proceed with a feasibility study on a conventional high-speed train service from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore.

However, it is still not known if this private finance initiative will involve a fresh line, the Express Rail Link line to Kuala Lumpur International Airport or the existing KTM track.

According to YTL Corp managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, commuters can be whisked between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur in 90 minutes. The cost of the project is estimated at RM8 billion.

Rashidi said while conventional high-speed trains have to run on straight tracks, the maglev system allows for bends and sharp corners along the North-South Expressway at high speeds.

He said a similar system is already in operation in Shanghai, China.

"What we are saying is that we can offer a viable alternative to YTL Corp's proposal at a substantially lower cost. But we can also complement YTL Corp's train as ours will stop at all main towns," he said.

Rashidi said Jalur Mudra is prepared to make a firm proposal to the Government soon.


speeds of up to 500km per hour. :eek2: surpass F1 car.


.

wow. That's a lot of money spent :eek:

That really funny man....now i know how rich my country.................

Eventually Japan is running on Standard and Narrow Gauges. However they able to make two different standard to run on 1 line at certain point. We also can do it here. Maybe the new HSR station will be at Ayer Keroh. I believe building a new station next to KTM line at certain big towns will be a good deal for more better passenger flows. eg. Kluang, Segamat, Gemas. KTM also have to upgrade itself so can provides a slower regional services.

It should be noted that the total $1.2B Shanghai maglev project indicated includes one-time capital costs such as manufacturing and construction facilities and operational training, largely distorting the per-mile costs of the short track. It is predicted that the per-mile costs of the extension to Hangzhou will be significantly lower.

maglevs are significantly less expensive to operate and maintain (O&M) than traditional high-speed trains, planes or intercity buses. The data coming out of the Shanghai maglev demonstration project indicates that O&M costs are quite low, and are indeed covered by the current relatively low volume of 7,000 passengers per day.


Your statements are interesting. Could you direct me to some references? I noticed Wikipedia carrying approx the same statements, but they neglected to list their sources....

YTL's previous press statement quoted the ERL cost at 5mil RM/km. Extrapolating that cost to his projected KL-SG high speed link, at 350km as quoted by the Jalur Muda chair, that would come up to around 1.8bil RM. Thus, Tan Sri Yeoh's 8bil likely includes his projections for land aquisition?

I found this article on the Transit Coalition page on the Pro's of the MAglev from the Chinese Authorities.

http://thetransitcoalition.us/MiscInfo/InterviewComWu-Wenhui.htm

Shanghai Transrapid:
The technology is mature, safe, and reliable
(a report by Mr Hong Chong´en)

Overall contractual acceptance of the Shanghai Transrapid project was successfully completed last month. That means that with the demonstration line in Shanghai Pudong, the pioneering "Transrapid technology" will stand as a success in every respect in the history of transportation.

In order to subject the Shanghai Transrapid line to thorough testing, German and Chinese experts defined a great number of complicated and extremely difficult constraints and rigorously tested the construction and assembly of the guideway, electromagnetic system and vehicle control system, as well as the safety measures, emergency management system, passenger service system and environmental impact, etc. during the safety test period in the first 3 months of this year. The result was the compilation of 300 documents assessed by safety experts. They came to the main conclusion that the maglev system developed in Germany and mutually completed by German and Chinese engineers had attained full technical maturity and was not only completely functional, reliable, and safe in every situation, but also capable of competing economically with all existing high-speed steel-wheel transit systems.

For that reason, the Shanghai Transrapid project center was authorized by the Shanghai city council to grant to the Shanghai Transrapid demonstration line the operating license for trials with passengers.

A few days ago, Commander WU Xiangming from the Shanghai Transrapid project center answered questions from journalists on the licensing and safety assessment process for the Shanghai demonstration line and its scientifically recognized key technologies, the economic data, and the state of operation.

Transrapid offers more safety than any other system
An interview with Commander Wu from the Shanghai Transrapid project center
From signing of the contract in January 2001 to the recent overall contractual acceptance, the Shanghai Transrapid project has gone through its "24-month pregnancy" and subsequent "16-month test phase" with imagination and miracles. All posts on the Shanghai line are now occupied by Chinese technicians and engineers. We have achieved our goal of having operation and maintenance tasks performed exclusively by Chinese personnel.

To give interested readers more information about the internal workings of this project, an interview was conducted a few days ago with Commander Wu Xiangming in which he explained the technical characteristics of the world's first commercially operated Transrapid demonstration line and countered the rumors that had been circulated in the past.

Safety ---
Built-in multiple safety.
Passenger safety guaranteed!
Nearly everyone is wondering whether the Transrapid can convey passengers to their destination safely at a speed of 430 km/h.

As there is no contact between wheels and rails in the case of Transrapid, the maglev vehicle "envelopes the guideway" as it moves along and fully ensures the safety of all mechanical components. Therefore, the most common accident with steel-wheel systems, namely derailment, is inherently impossible.

The safety focus of the Transrapid is consequently on ensuring the supply of power and ensuring the safety of the Transrapid vehicle and passengers in case of failures in the power supply.

WU Xiangming provided very detailed information on that point. He explained that "overdimensioned" measures have been incorporated into the power supply system of the Shanghai Transrapid on several levels in order to ensure the supply of power.

In a serious voice but with a bit of humor Wu Xiangming said, "Of all the transit systems in the world, none is safer than the Transrapid."

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. From that successful VIP trip with the first 3-section vehicle on December 31, 2002 to today, no problems have occurred on the Shanghai Transrapid line that affected safe operation. Transrapid Shanghai has always run on schedule – right to the second. By end of shift yesterday, the Shanghai Transrapid had already traveled 770,000 km and conveyed 790,000 passengers safely to their destination.

Environmental protection –
The magnetic radiation is negligible.
Mobile phones work without any problem.
The advanced nature of German maglev technology can be seen by the environmental protection aspect. It produces none of the exhaust fumes, waste water, or other waste associated with conventional systems. Transrapid is truly a "modern, green mode of transportation".

Some environmental experts express doubts: How severe is the annoyance caused by excessive noise and the magnetic radiation created by the Transrapid? Are there negative impacts on people and the environment?

Wu Xiangming points out that the noise on the Transrapid comes from the nose of the vehicle "penetrating" the air at high speed and from friction between the outer skin of the vehicle and the air. Repeated measurements have shown that at a speed of 430 km/h these friction noises reach 90 db(A) and can be unpleasant to people in the immediate vicinity. But it is important to set the record straight: 1.) At the same speed, the noise in the Transrapid is much lower than on conventional modes of transportation; 2.) The friction noise with the air at high speed occurs for a short time only; 3.) Improvement of the outer design and use of new materials could reduce noise caused by friction between the vehicle at high speed and air; 4.) By reducing the Transrapid's speed to 200 km/h, the noise all but disappears. So if the Transrapid is later routed through built-up areas, it is enough to limit the speed to 200 km/h. That would eliminate annoying noise problems for people. The same cannot be said of other modes of transportation.

A word about magnetic radiation: In the early years of maglev, German scientists proved by theoretical experiments that the strength of the magnetic field within the electromagnetic vehicle is approximately equal to the Earth's natural magnetic field. That is roughly the amount of radiation you are exposed to when watching a 14-inch TV from a distance of 4 to 5 meters. The data gathered since the beginning of operation of the Shanghai Transrapid line have proven that negative effect of this radiation on human beings is negligible. Back in February, a Swedish businessman wanted to ride the Transrapid at the ripe old age of 70. On boarding, his assistant wanted to stop him, saying that since the boss had a cardiac valve prosthesis he should not ride the Transrapid. However, after Chinese employees explained the magnetic field in the vehicle to him, the elderly gentleman was confident and climbed aboard the Transrapid. The result: he was fully satisfied with the trip. A further example, mobile phones: "Passengers using mobile phones know that reception is just as good inside the Transrapid as it is outside. The voices and photos received are good and clear.”

Costs –
Lower than metro, light rail, and high-speed rail
The final financial statement for the overall investment in the complete project was audited simultaneously with the acceptance.

Several "versions" of the overall investment have been circulating. Some experts even frivolously believe incorrect data about the per-km construction costs for the Shanghai Transrapid line of more than 400 million yuan RMB. That has led to many strange and even comical discussions.

WU Xiangming explained that when the project application was filed for the Shanghai Transrapid 4 years ago in accordance with the building permission procedure, the total budget approved by the state authorities for the project was 10.0299 billion yuan RMB (1.2084 billion USD). Although this completely new project encountered many unexpected problems in the course of its realization and additional expenditure was necessary in some areas – in order to provide some basis for similar projects in the future – the overall construction costs remained within the budgetary total. This was due to rigorous management at all interfaces and controlling at all levels.

According to the final financial statement approved by the SMTDC board at the end of April, the total costs of the Shanghai Transrapid line are 9.943 billion yuan RMB (1.198 billion USD). These include building the guideway, purchasing vehicles, substations, auxiliary equipment, and interest during the construction phase. If this total is applied to the 30-km main line, you arrive at an average per-km price of 330 million yuan RMB (39.759 million USD).

Compared with other rail-based transit systems in Shanghai, the per-kilometer costs are just half what they are for metros and less than the per-km price of 370 million yuan RMB (44.578 million USD) for the elevated light rail "Mingzhu (Pearl of the Orient) line".

Compare the above costs with the costs of high-speed rail systems that have already been completed or are being built for a speed of about 300 km/h: for example, the high-speed link being built from Seoul to Pusan in South Korea using TGV steel-wheel technology; the high-speed link being built from Taipei to Kaoshing in Taiwan with Shinkansen steel-wheel technology; the recently completed ICE line between Frankfurt am Main and Cologne; or the line now being built from Amsterdam to the southern port with its own high-speed technology. The per-km costs are about 40 million USD (about 300 million yuan RMB) in all cases. In some of these projects that figure does not even include the price of the vehicles. These costs are much higher than for the Shanghai Transrapid line – a "super short" line for demonstration and test purposes.

He also mentioned that, even based on the current ridership forecast, the operating revenue of the Shanghai Transrapid line can already cover direct operating costs. But media reports simply transferred the "daily loss of 200,000 yuan RMB (approx. $24,100 USD)" of a railway line in south China to the Shanghai Transrapid line. That is unprofessional and irresponsible!

WU Xiangming's response to rumors
Over the past few years, there have been many rumors of the type "burned out cables" and "guideway subsidence" in the media concerning the Shanghai Transrapid line. These have been deliberately conceived and circulated in the press. In his interview, Commander WU commented on these rumors for the first time.

The "burned out cables" story is completely exaggerated. There was just one "fire on the outer layer of a cable" in June 2002. A copper layer was attached to the surface of the cables supplied, because the Germans wanted to use it to improve operational monitoring of the cables. This resulted in sparks and the outer layer of the cable was damaged. However, this fault had no effect on the safe functioning and normal operation of the Transrapid vehicle.

As for the subsidence in the Shanghai Transrapid project, Commander WU said that it was already recognized during the planning and construction phases that the foundation on soft terrain would sink. The problem of how to equalize subsidence was chosen as a main topic of research and development. "Several special supports that can be adjusted continuously in 3 dimensions" were developed independently and filed as a patent. So, the solution to the problem was found early on. During the recent safety tests, the testers found a subsidence difference of 15 millimeters in the foundation under one pylon. This was immediately adjusted using the support to enable the guideway to remain level "without the slightest deviation". During the setting work, the Transrapid vehicles continued to travel normally. There were no negative effects for passengers.

Some media spread reports of alleged falling out in the German-Chinese cooperation. They like to "make a mountain out of a molehill". WU Xiangming pointed out that the Shanghai Transrapid project – repeatedly praised by the German and Chinese heads of government – is an example of successful international cooperation between Germany and China. Of course, there are differences of opinion on details even among brothers. To better ensure building progress and to defend one’s own rights and obligations, both sides had some disagreements and even disputes. But dispute is dispute and cooperation is cooperation. The world can see the success: we got the Transrapid "flying" in just 24 months.

Wu Xiangming said that despite the constant claims in the press about disharmony in the German-Chinese cooperation, renewed cooperation between Germany and China is being planned: Chinese engineers will assist Germany with the construction of the first German maglev line between Munich International Airport and downtown Munich.

(originally translated from Chinese to German by Hanan Wang)

An article on Civil Engineering (monthly publication by American Society of Civil Engineers) Nov 2004

http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline04/1104ce.html

NOVEMBER 2004 CIVIL ENGINEERING MAGAZINE

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The high-speed magnetic levitation rail line now in operation in Shanghai—the first of its kind in the world—demonstrates that this extraordinary technology can move people in a way that is fast, reliable, and cost effective. By Walter Antlauf, Dipl.–Ing., François G. Bernardeau, P.E., and Kevin C. Coates.



The Shanghai maglev system traverses 30 km in just eight minutes. Because right-of-way restrictions ruled out a straight alignment, the planners chose a gently curving S shape to take full advantage of the system’s speed. Transrapid International–USA-all photos


xtending 30 km above a sparsely populated alluvial plain in southeastern China is a high-tech concrete bridge that at first might not attract one’s notice. But this is no ordinary bridge. It is the elevated dual-track guideway for the world’s first high-speed commercial magnetic levitation, or maglev, transportation system. In addition to linking the city of Shanghai to Pudong International Airport, which is 30 km away, this new system bridges the technological and time gap between conventional rail and air travel and opens a new era of reliable, energy-efficient, and low-maintenance high-speed ground transportation.

Supervised by engineers from the Shanghai Maglev Transportation Development Company, Ltd. (SMTDC), of Shanghai, and German engineers from Transrapid International AG (TRI), of Berlin, CDM Consult AG, of Bochum (a subsidiary of CDM, based in Cambridge, Massachusetts), Max Bögl, of Neumarkt, Siemens AG, of Munich, and ThyssenKrupp AG, of Düsseldorf, the Shanghai maglev project is an example of international cooperation in engineering, manufacturing, and construction.

Limited commercial operations began in early 2003, and since then the SMTDC, which owns the system, has shuttled nearly 2 million passengers between Shanghai’s Long Yang Road station, at the southeastern edge of the city, and the airport at speeds up to 430 km/h. The 464-seat maglevs depart every 10 minutes during peak travel periods, arriving at the airport less than 8 minutes later. According to a report published by the SMTDC in July of this year, computerized operations have resulted in arrivals and departures that are on time to the second 99.7 percent of the time, a remarkable feat for any transportation system. At present the system operates from 8 am to 5:30 pm, but service is to be expanded to 18 hours a day in the near future.


Engineers chose a hybrid girder design that combined the rigidity, noise absorption, and low cost of concrete with the precision manufacturing offered by steel. The system’s reinforced-concrete support piers are designed to withstand the seismic forces of earthquakes measuring up to 7.5 on the Richter scale.

With an acceleration force only a 10th that from gravity, the maglev’s ride is so smooth that travelers would be unaware that they were leaving the station if they did not look out the window. It takes just four minutes for the cars to attain their operational cruising speed of 430 km/h, which is held for 52 seconds prior to the three-minute deceleration ending the trip. As the cars near their maximum speed, there is some detectable vibration, but the ride is still smooth enough for passengers to easily walk the aisles without bracing themselves. Despite the speed, the ride is comfortable and the interior noise is significantly less than what one experiences in the cabin of a turboprop traveling at the same speed.

The system cuts the trip from the Long Yang station to the airport from 45 minutes—via a six-lane highway that runs adjacent to the maglev line—to just 8 minutes and offers other, less tangible advantages to the city of Shanghai as well. Because a maglev consist can comprise as many as eight vehicles, the potential passenger capacity of the system is several times greater than the highway, negating any immediate need for additional highway expansion to handle the city’s ever-increasing traffic. Since the entire maglev route is elevated, there are no at-grade crossings, eliminating any interference with vehicular traffic and providing a high degree of safety for maglev travelers.

What is more, the elevated guideway is visually integrated with the nearby highway infrastructure. In areas where the guideway deviates from the alignment of the highway, the land beneath is used for such other purposes as farming, industry, and commerce. Plans exist to expand the line farther into the city and beyond, and as this expansion occurs it is expected that real estate development will increase around the maglev stations, just as it has in countries where high-speed rail has been implemented.

During a presentation in January 2004 in Washington, D.C., at the annual meeting of the Transportation Research Board, Wu Xiangming, who was the president of the SMTDC during the design and construction of the line, pointed out that China’s limited domestic oil supply figured prominently in the deliberations. Consideration was also given, he said, to other high-speed rail options that rely on electricity, the intent being to eschew highway expansions and modes of travel that depend on oil. He said that as China modernizes, its energy consumption per capita will inevitably rise and raise the demand for oil. (To support this point, he noted that the average energy consumption per capita in the United States is presently 11 times that in China.)

Rather than adopting a system based on one of the high-speed rail technologies now found in Japan and Europe, officials with the SMTDC favored maglev, which they saw as a low-maintenance way of quickly moving passengers across vast distances in comfort. Prior to the construction of the maglev line, the six-lane highway was Shanghai’s only link to Pudong International Airport. Faced with increasing congestion and the prospect of continual highway expansion, planners ultimately decided that a maglev line would be the fastest and most reliable way of delivering travelers to the airport. It also required less energy than other options and offered the lowest life-cycle cost. Looking to future line expansions, the officials saw that longer maglev routes would allow routine operating speeds of up to 500 km/h, making it possible for business travelers, for example, to attend meetings 1,000 km away and return in a single day. By constructing this “demonstration” line, the owners would be able to accumulate and analyze data from a commercial application of this electronic transportation system.

In the summer of 2000 the Chinese prime minister, Zhu Rongji, an electrical engineer by training and a man with a strong interest in maglev technology, arranged for the SMTDC engineers to visit a 30 km long maglev test facility in the Emsland region of Germany. The TVE (Testversuchsanlage Emsland) was built in the early 1980s near the village of Lathen, about 10 km from the Dutch border. The engineers took this opportunity to observe operations, evaluate guideway systems, and review operational data.

While in Germany, the engineers met with representatives of the firms involved in maglev development—Siemens, ThyssenKrupp, CDM, Transrapid, and Max Bögl. All of these firms signed contracts with the SMTDC to design and construct the Shanghai system. Max Bögl was selected as the main guideway engineering consulting firm because its hybrid guideway girder was deemed the best system for the project.

Essentially, Transrapid maglev passengers ride inside a vehicle that forms part of an electric linear synchronous motor. The guideway, which contains the stator broken into segments called stator packs, magnetically propels passengers riding inside a vehicle, which acts as the rotor. Vehicle levitation is effected via onboard computer control units that sample and adjust the magnetic force of a series of onboard electromagnets as they are attracted to the guideway. The vehicles feature cast aluminum support arms that wrap around the top cantilevers of the guideway. The support arms’ upward facing suspension magnets are attracted toward the stators, which are underneath the cantilevers—a design that also makes derailment virtually impossible at any speed. (See figure below)

Regardless of load and speed, the onboard control system maintains a 10 mm gap with a ±2 mm tolerance between the vehicle’s support magnets and the guideway’s stators and between the guidance magnets and the steel guide rails. Three-phase cables run the length of the guideway through both sides’ stator packs. When the control center—located in the Long Yang Road station—applies current to these cables from strategically located trackside substations, the resulting magnetic waves cause the maglev vehicles to accelerate, cruise, decelerate, or brake. Power is delivered to the maglev vehicles through linear generators at speeds above 80 km/h and through power rails that are in contact at lower speeds in and near stations. Onboard batteries provide redundant power to maintain vehicle levitation in the event of guideway power failures.

The particular alignment of the Shanghai system was chosen because it had relatively few right-of-way obstacles and because its point of origin—the Long Yang station—offered access to the Shanghai metro. From this metro station passengers can reach downtown Shanghai in less than 15 minutes. Because right-of-way restrictions ruled out a straight alignment, the planners chose a gently curving S shape—the radii of curvature being 2,257 and 4,502 m to take full advantage of the maglev’s speed.

A short construction schedule dictated by political considerations was adopted for the project. Zhu Rongji was stepping down as prime minister in early 2003 and had planned a December 31, 2002, inaugural ride with Gerhard Schröder, the German chancellor. In response, the German companies marshaled their resources to meet this tight schedule.

The site’s periodic seismic activity and weak alluvial soil, with the possibility of liquefaction during an earthquake, made it less than ideal for the stable support of the heavy concrete and steel infrastructure. The solution to these instability problems lay in building elevated guideways sitting atop support piers. The reinforced-concrete support piers, 1.8 by 1.8 m in plan and typically 8 m high, are designed to withstand the seismic forces of earthquakes measuring up to 7.5 on the Richter scale. Each support pier sits atop a pile cap 2 m deep and 10 to 12 m on a side. The caps cover 20 to 24 piles, each 60 cm in diameter, that are driven to depths reaching 70 m to counter seismic forces and liquefaction.

A geotechnical investigation was performed by Chinese consultants to provide subsurface data at each pile location along the alignment. The study included 359 standard penetration drill holes and 230 cone penetration test holes, as well as split spoon and undisturbed Shelby tube sampling, groundwater sampling, and a site survey. The exploratory work was performed in 2000 between October 7 and November 12. CDM reviewed the soil data and chose foundation design parameters in such a way as to ensure smooth and reliable operation. This information was also used to evaluate the possibility of short- and long-term settlement along the track alignment and deformations of the piles.

The geotechnical challenges peculiar to maglev included exacting deformation limitations and the need for long-term stability of the foundations under dynamic loads. Thus an analysis of the support that would be provided to the girders was called for. The maximum allowable total deformation of the guideway is 10 mm. This deformation can come from settlement caused by consolidation, plastic settlements resulting from secondary consolidation or creep, settlements caused by the dead load, settlements caused by cyclical loads from the vehicles, elastic settlements caused by dynamic loads, and settlement during operation. CDM developed an analytical methodology to study the resulting settlements and maintains a soil database expressly for maglev and high-speed rail that provides relevant information on settlement for any type of soil. This database was used in conjunction with data from the site to produce a comprehensive deformation analysis that made it possible to precisely position the guideway.

To meet such a tight schedule, the right material had to be chosen for the guideway. Three basic types of guideway girders had been installed at the TVE: concrete, steel, and a hybrid girder. The T-shaped hybrid girder, a reinforced-concrete center girder to which steel cantilevers are bolted, is 62 m long, 2.8 m wide, and 2 m high and weighs 290 Mg. Following a thorough evaluation of the three guideway types with respect to ride, wear, noise, cost, handling, and heat expansion characteristics, the SMTDC engineers selected the hybrid design because it combined the advantages of concrete (rigidity, noise absorption, and low cost) with those of steel (precision manufacturing). It was felt that the concrete girders lacked the long-term durability and precision in the critical grouted areas where such steel components as the stator packs and guidance rails would be affixed, raising questions about long-term maintenance costs. The steel girder was seen as offering the precision needed but was rejected because of the irregular expansion characteristics that can result when one surface is subjected to prolonged exposure to the sun. What is more, the steel girders exhibited undesirable oscillation effects when multisection vehicles passed over them, some undesirable lift-bearing forces, and some strong vibrations. These problems could have been overcome, but higher costs aside, they would have required greater amounts of steel and longer lead times for manufacturing. These considerations tipped the scale in favor of the hybrid guideway.


The maglev system has carried nearly 2 million passengers between the Long Yang station, right, and Pudong International Airport at speeds up to 430 km/h.

To increase rigidity, engineers from SMTDC and Max Bögl redesigned the shape of the hybrid girder from a T to an I that would be 2.2 m high and 2.8 m wide. To facilitate handling during construction, the designers also shortened the girder to 25 m. Although the modified design improved passenger comfort, it also increased the overall weight of the girder and reflected noise upward.

The hybrid girder design evolved from Max Bögl’s considerable experience with steel fabrication and with elements of precast, prestressed concrete. The girders were milled to a precision of 0.2 mm, enabling the completed cantilever assemblies to satisfy a total tolerance criterion of 1 mm for the entire length of the guideway. Adhering to all of Transrapid’s specifications, which are dictated by considerations of deflection, dynamic strength, and thermal expansion, engineers evaluated the girder with respect to as many as 14,000 load cases. It is believed that no transportation infrastructure project of this magnitude has ever been built to such exacting deflection or expansion design specifications. The hybrid design was also considered the best for quickly and economically moving from prototype guideway to commercial mass production. When the contract between SMTDC and Max Bögl was signed, on January 26, 2001, no manufacturing infrastructure for such guideways existed anywhere in the world. One month later, however, construction began on a 1.8 km long, climate-controlled facility that would have laser-guided milling machines for the mass production of guideways.

Choosing a hybrid girder design facilitated the deployment of the tooling machines needed to form and mill the girders, which were designed in three lengths. Those referred to as type I girders were approximately 24.8 m long and weighed approximately 190 Mg. The type II girders were 12.4 m long, and those for the maintenance facility, located near the airport, were 3.1 m long. Logistical and manufacturing approaches developed by Max Bögl led to fast, efficient, and economical mass fabrication. The company also provided special software to route the digital tracking data automatically to the CAM (computer-aided manufacturing) tooling machines, giving operators of the plant real-time reports on fabrication. Additionally, a sophisticated quality management system guaranteed quality control from production and storage to delivery and installation.

The precast plant produced an average of 10 girders a day, seven days a week, and sustained a reserve capacity sufficient to support the project schedule and meet the needs of any future expansion of the line. A large storage field adjacent to the plant was used to cure the high-strength concrete girders (34,475 kPa) for between 45 and 60 days to minimize long-term creep and shrinkage.

The SMTDC’s vision for developing a larger maglev network demanded that the girders be suitable for use in—and transportation to—multiple locations. To provide flexibility in future guideway construction while maintaining the strict deflection requirements, all of the single-span girders designed for the Shanghai project can be coupled to form double-span girders.

Once the right-of-way was cleared in March 2001 and construction of the guideway manufacturing facility—located near the midpoint of the line—began, pile driving commenced along the entire route. Contractors drove groups of piles for the foundation piers every 25 m at a very rapid pace, completing the entire 30 km route in less than nine months. The pile caps were then poured atop the pilings.

The German and Chinese engineers and construction crews manufactured, delivered, installed, and aligned a total of 2,777 guideway girders to the system in less than 18 months. The majority of the girders (2,497) were the larger (type I) versions, and to facilitate installation a temporary rail line was laid along either side of the maglev route to support specially designed gantry cranes. In addition, some 70 type II beams and 210 maintenance facility girders were manufactured and delivered.

Installed between the guideways and their support piers are three-way bearings designed to allow alignment corrections in response to the settlement that will occur during normal operation.

While construction in Shanghai progressed, ThyssenKrupp was transforming a construction facility in Kassel, Germany, originally intended for a prototype maglev vehicle (the TR-08) into a full-fledged manufacturing plant. The SMTDC ordered 15 vehicles to constitute three 5-vehicle consists. Once the Kassel plant was up to speed, it produced one section per month. The completed vehicles were then shipped to a facility constructed at the end of the maintenance spur for final assembly. In addition to the maglev vehicles and guideway stator packs, ThyssenKrupp designed, fabricated, and shipped the eight bendable steel guideway switches for the system and supervised their installation.

Route Map

Siemens designed, manufactured, and delivered all the power electronics for the digitally controlled and operated system, including the two propulsion substations, the control center, several miles of specialized power cables, and 62 microwave data towers. At least one of these towers has a line of sight at all times to one of the two antennas on the maglev’s end section (one on each end). A steady stream of data between the vehicles and the control center makes for safe and efficient operation, with no need for a human operator. The data transmitted include information on guideway deviations detected by the vehicles during normal operation, along with exact coordinates to aid speedy corrections. Siemens supervised the installation of these systems.

Buoyed by the success of the inaugural ride on December 31, 2002, the owners decided to operate the system for visitors on weekends while work proceeded on weekdays in connection with commissioning, safety certification, and overall regulatory approval. Full-scale daily maglev operations officially began in April 2004. The system’s operating reliability is extremely high and its maintenance costs are reported to be 33 percent lower than those of traditional low-speed steel-wheel-on-steel-rail systems and half those of traditional high-speed rail systems. (Even the fastest of the latter are 130 km/h slower than the maglev system.)

Because the entire system is computer operated and controlled, the SMTDC requires only a small labor force. In fact, even large increases in passenger traffic will not require that the staff of 10 guideway and 20 vehicle maintenance workers be expanded. The low maintenance and labor costs, combined with the advantages the system confers in the areas of speed, reliability, and safety, mean that the owner can expect a steady and rapid return on investment and even a profit. Wu reported in July that even with its daily volume of 7,000 passengers, which was lower than expected, the system was already able to cover its operating costs.

Not long after service began on the maglev line, a 2 mm settlement of one pier was detected and corrected. Variable settlement of the guideway piers had been expected, analyzed, and planned for by all parties involved. When necessary, adjustments can quickly be made to the appropriate bearings to compensate for any deviation, even during operation.

Traditional Rail System Maglev System

The two stations built at either end of the route and the indoor maintenance facility were designed and constructed by Chinese firms. The maintenance facility is accessible from the main line via a bendable steel switch that leads to a single spur. Bendable steel switches at either end of the line allow the trains to be routed to either side of the stations’ platforms as needed.

The greatest challenge confronting maglev deployment over the past 12 years has been political, not technical. The technology is radically different from that of other high-speed rail systems, and it will probably take time for decision makers to learn enough about maglev to include it in their deliberations. To be sure, it takes some time to absorb maglev’s technical details, but once this has been accomplished the technology’s many operational and financial advantages reveal themselves.

The SMTDC views its maglev airport connector as an immense success and believes its many advantages more than justify its $1.2-billion price tag. According to Wu, this figure includes the costs incurred in designing and constructing the guideway; purchasing the 15 vehicles; constructing the substations, the maintenance spur, the maintenance facility, and the bendable steel switches; purchasing auxiliary equipment; and meeting interest payments during the construction phase. If this total is applied to the 30 km main line, the price works out to $39.759 million per kilometer. The per-kilometer price of the guideway construction itself, exclusive of ancillary items, is naturally lower and is expected to drop as new construction and manufacturing techniques evolve. It should also be noted that guideway costs depend on the site and the project and that this first project was built to extremely high standards. Moreover, its price tag reflected the premium for an expedited construction schedule.

By comparison, says Wu, Shanghai’s four-year-old Mingzhu (Pearl of the Orient) elevated rail line cost $44.578 million per kilometer, and the per-kilometer costs of maglev are just half of those of many subways. Other traditional high-speed rail lines, for example, the one being built in South Korea from Seoul to Pusan, the line being constructed in Taiwan from Taipei to Kaohsiung, the recently completed German line between Frankfurt and Cologne, and the line under construction in the Netherlands, all cost approximately $40 million per kilometer, according to Wu, and in some cases that figure does not include the vehicles. These costs are much higher than those for the Shanghai line.

This year Wu was appointed to lead the newly formed National Maglev Transportation Engineering and Development Center, a clear sign that China intends to expand the application of this technology. Plans and negotiations are moving forward to extend the initial operating segment 7 km into the city, with an eventual connection to the city’s central rail station. There are also plans to link Shanghai to the city of Hangzhou, 163 km to the southwest, which would create the world’s first intercity maglev line.

Maglev technology is also being considered in the United States. Congress established the Maglev Deployment Program in 1998 as part of the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century (TEA-21) with the express purpose of building a maglev demonstration project. While several environmental impact statements are nearing completion, no project has yet received construction funding from the federal government. Six projects are being considered: two in Southern California; one from Las Vegas to Anaheim, California; one from Atlanta to Chattanooga, Tennessee; one from Baltimore to Washington, D.C.; and one linking Pittsburgh International Airport to the surrounding region.

The Shanghai maglev system validates the technology and confirms its cost-effectiveness and is a significant achievement for the German and Chinese engineers. The system clearly represents a new standard for high-speed ground transportation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Walter Antlauf, Dipl.–Ing., is the general manager of the Transrapid guideway system for Max Bögl Bauunternehmung GmbH und Company KG, Neumarkt, Germany. François G. Bernardeau, P.E., is an associate of CDM in Annandale, Virginia, and is leading CDM’s maglev efforts in the United States. Kevin C. Coates is a transportation and energy policy consultant based in Bethesda, Maryland, and a former spokesperson for Transrapid International-USA

note though, I believe the authors are from the Maglev industry, which might possibly lead to some bias. Furthermore, it appears that the German Gov subsidized 10% of the total cost of the project. So unclear whether 1.2b USD was including or excluding the subsidy.

1. Run from KL Sentral-KLIA-Seremban(interchange with KTM)-Ayer Keroh(Malacca)-Kluang(interchange with KTM)-Johor Bharu(interchange with KTM)-Singapore(Tg Pagar).
2. The line from JB-Spore can be done by either widening the causeway and build side by side along the existing KTM Line or turn the existing narrow into mix gauge so both narrow and standard gauge train can run on it. This can clearly cut down the cost and less dispute.
3. If Spore dispute about the overhead wires. We can adopt the Eurostar which can run on third and overhead or stop at JB and provides shuttle DMU to Tg Pagar.
4. Renovate Tg Pagar Railway Station to accomodate the new service since the station now is overall under utillised.
5. KTM shall focus on regional train services and cooperate with the new train service to provides an efficient flowing of passengers.
6. KTM and the new line to have a joint service into Singapore.

Taking into account of Skyrocketing Fuel Prices, Pollutions, Accidents, Jams, and Cost Factors. By widening the North Sourth Highway is the not the answer for the future. Shifting it to train is a wiser choice.

A link to info on the worlds high speed railways.

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/#High_Speed_Railways

List of high speed railways

* ACELA High-Speed Rail Network, USA
* AVE Spain High-Speed Rail Network, Spain
* Beijing-Shanghai High-Speed Line, China
* California High-Speed Rail Network, USA
* East Coast Main Line Rail Route Upgrading, United Kingdom
* Eurostar Italia High-Speed Rail Network, Italy
* Finland Pendolino Tilting Trains
* Frankfurt-Köln Route Inter City Express Network, Germany
* Germany InterCity Express High-Speed Rail Network, Germany
* HSL Zuid High-Speed Rail Line, Netherlands
* Kuala Lumpur Airport Express High-Speed Rail Link, Malaysia
* LGV Est Europeen High-Speed Line, France
* Lisbon-Porto High-Speed Line, Portugal
* Nürnberg-München High-Speed Line, Germany
* Perpignan-Figueres Cross-Border Railway, France
* Queensland High-Speed Line (Tilting Trains), Australia
* Speedrail High-Speed Rail Link, Australia
* Swiss Tilting Trains Modernisation Programme, Switzerland
* Taiwan High-Speed Rail Line, Taiwan
* TGV France High-Speed Rail Network, France
* TGV South Korea High-Speed Rail Route, South Korea
* Thalys PBKA High-Speed Trains, Europe
* Tilting Trains Technology, United Kingdom
* Tren Urbano Rapid Transit System, Puerto Rico
* West Coast Main Line Pendolino Tilting Trains, United Kingdom

I think it's quite possible that we build the train tunnel like Eurostar than building on the Causeway. Remember the 2 boring machines that they use to dig the SMART tunnel? :D

We can't build a proper bridge across the causeway let alone a tunnel. Aren't there too many pipes in the Tebrau Straits and after seeing the crooked bridge saga, no way Singapore gonna let us remove or alter thos underwater pipes.

Any body know who is this Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd? Beside the operator of monorail in JB! Hopefully is not RM2 company! Sound like Proton engineer brief F1 engineer what is F1 car...

Back to fundamental issue why KL to S'pore? Then you can call "Bullet Train" connecting 2 metropolitan cities..with hassle free of coz' bypassing the causeway nightmare.. All in 90 mins journey or even less conveniency.

If you are talking connecting Seremban, Melaka & JB or even "Gemas" & "Paloh" then use-lah KTM! We even have Senandung Malam! Why wasting money & resources doing somethings Not practical at all!

There Is No Bullet Train In The World Only Connecting 2 Points. That is a waste of resources. How many services that KTM provides a day? How much more can they support with 1 single track? How Fast can they go with metre gauge?

How's that possible? How can the train stop at all main towns when the North-South Expressway doesn't run through the main town?

Instead of running in parallel to the expressway, why don't built the maglev track parallel to the current train track? For sure, the train will pass all major towns as currently there is a train station in almost all major towns.

The alignment of the North South Expressway is less curvy and shorter compared to the colonial-ear alignment of the railway. Furthermore it had more landbank alongside the expressway compared to KTM. ;)

High-speed trains do not stop at all stops cause it would defeat the purpose of the train service. They best serve a few major stops. Since PLUS do not pass thru towns, it is viable to go alongside it :yes:

We can't build a proper bridge across the causeway let alone a tunnel. Aren't there too many pipes in the Tebrau Straits and after seeing the crooked bridge saga, no way Singapore gonna let us remove or alter thos underwater pipes.


Should there be a tunnel for rail, it would definitely be much lower than those pipes. Furthermore most pipes goes at-grade level on the causeway ;)

Many years back, there are plans for a rail tunnel to cross into Singapore. Only when they realised the enormous cost of building one, the Malaysian govt scrapped it. :yes:

Khazanah To Conduct Impact Study On KL-Spore High-speed Train

August 21, 2006 22:17 PM
KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 21 (Bernama) -- The government has asked Khazanah Nasional to carry out an impact study to evaluate the implications of the proposed high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, the Dewan Rakyat was told Monday.

The government had to appraise the impact posed by the project before approving it, said Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Seri Mohamed Nazri Abdul Aziz.

He said that although the project would be developed through the private financing initiative (PFI), a study had to be conducted on its feasibility and socio-economic impact as it involved land acquisitions.

The scope would also include the implications on other modes of transportation, he said, adding that the findings would be the basis for the government in deciding whether to go ahead with the project.

He was responding to a question by Datuk Firdaus Harun (BN-Rembau) who wanted to know when the train project would be implemented, and its implications on the country and others mode of transportation.

The project costing RM8 billion was proposed by YTL Corporation Berhad in July.

Mohamed Nazri said that without the findings, it would difficult to forecast the merits and demerits of the project.

He said that it had been cited that the train project could hamper the development of the recently launched South Johor Economic Region.

-- BERNAMA

YTL yet to submit fast rail link to Singapore proposal

YTL Corp Bhd, which floated the idea of a high-speed rail link to Singapore in July, had yet to submit a full proposal on the matter to the ministry, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said on Monday.

“I am still waiting for the proposal as well as a report on the social impact assessment by Khazanah Nasional. The report by Khazanah should be completed very soon,” he told reporters after witnessing a signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Port Klang Authority and the authority of the Slovenian port of Luka Koper at his ministry here on Monday.

Although the ministry had not received any similar proposals from other companies, Chan said it would welcome any such proposals from them.

Inside Asia: High-speed rail: Its time has come
By Assif Shameen of The Edge Singapore
July 11, 2006

The long-nosed KTX high-speed express train that pulls into Seoul Station at 8.50am is almost always packed to capacity. Carrying 950 office workers who live in Pusan and commute 410km north to the Korean capital, the train ride takes 2½ hours, over roughly the same distance of the Penang-Singapore route. By next year, when another section is built, the journey that once took eight hours will be slashed to just two.

Imagine, just two hours between Penang and Singapore. Or 90 minutes between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. Sure, Singaporeans who want to taste seafood in Bangsar can board at 5pm, spend four hours in KL and still get back to their own bed by 11pm. Or Malaysians who work in Singapore could commute from their suburban Petaling Jaya homes. But ultimately, it will be the tourists from India, China and around the world as well as businessmen and executives who use it the most. The weekend day-trippers would be just the icing on the cake.

Last week, Malaysian entrepreneur Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, who heads YTL Corp, unveiled a proposal to build a high-speed rail link between KL and Singapore. The journey would take just 40 minutes longer than it would for a passenger jet to fly between Changi and the KLIA. Add the commute from and to airports, check-in and waiting times, and the train could save passengers up to two hours. Rhetoric aside, a rail link that facilitates mobility of people between key cities could dramatically transform the economies of Southeast Asia from a bunch of loosely connected nations to a tightly knit, closely linked market.

High-speed rail access in Southeast Asia is an idea whose time has come. Unlike South Korea, Japan and Europe which have invested in a big way in railway infrastructure, Southeast Asia has under-invested in railways. Only in the last few years have low-cost carriers (LCCs) and more comfortable express coaches begun to bridge the tyranny of distance in the sprawling region. Now, as China is investing billions to upgrade its own railway infrastructure and India — which has an extensive though dilapidated network of its own — toys with the idea of high-speed trains, the missing link is clearly Southeast Asia. Three years, ago, Thailand unveiled a fairly ambitious plan to upgrade its railway network, which includes high-speed rail links between key cities from Chiangmai to Pattaya and eventually to Haadyai near the Malaysian border. Whether that multibillion-dollar plan survives Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is another matter.

As China becomes the factory to the world and India its back-office, Southeast Asia needs to pull more rabbits out of its hat and come up with more out-of-the-box solutions to stay competitive and cobble together new growth drivers to take its economies to the next level. Building a network of highways connecting key cities and deregulating air transportation to allow the mushrooming of LCCs were the first baby steps. Now, it is time for proper follow-through like investing in railway infrastructure the way Japan did decades ago, the way South Korea has done and the way China is beginning to do.

High-speed trains are no zero-sum game. They won’t kill the toll road operators in Malaysia, diminish the air hub status of Changi or Bangkok, or make LCCs less viable. Instead, they will only bring in more traffic to airports like Bangkok’s new Suvarnabhumi, Malaysian expressways, or malls like Siam Paragon. What governments need to do is ensure that high-speed trains linking key Southeast Asian cities get built as quickly, as efficiently and as inexpensively as possible. Let the markets take care of the rest.

When Seoul-Pusan KTX was first mooted, the bet was that it would become a white elephant. Now, the world’s fastest train is a showpiece. In recent months, China has sent officials to Seoul to study the KTX model and how it could be replicated. Southeast Asian officials shouldn’t be far behind. They need to take a hard look at not just the Singapore-KL route but other similar proposals linking key cities to keep the region humming at warp speed.

Assif Shameen is consulting editor at The Edge Singapore

It is possible that KTM double tracking project is preferred over this high speed rail project because KTM could provide freight service.My 2 sen.

Actually if its possible, Malaysia should coordinate with Singapore and Thailand so an ASEAN High Speed Railway could work.

The HSR should be a new network, from KL to Singapore via JB/Malacca as one line, within the line, an Express service could go nonstop, a Normal service could stop at each station.

The second line could go to Kuantan.

The third line north to Alor Setar with a fork to Penang, and up to Thailand, all the way to Bangkok.

Latest:
Khazanah expected to complete study on bullet train soon

By Kamarul Yunus
ahmadk@nstp.com.my


November 7 2006


THE Government expects Khazanah Nasional to complete its social impact study on YTL Corp's proposal for a RM8 billion high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore soon.

At the same time, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said the Government is waiting for a detailed proposal from YTL on the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore bullet train service.

"We expect (Khazanah to complete the study) anytime soon because this is a private initiative. We welcome such a proposal from the private sector and are willing to look into it.

"But before that, the social impact study will be very important to the Government," he told reporters after witnessing the signing of sister port agreement between Port Klang Authority and Slovenia's Luka Koper in Putrajaya yesterday.

Asked whether the Government has decided whether the last stop of the train service would be in Johor Baru or Singapore, Chan said it is too early to ascertain.

Chan also said the Government has not received any proposals from other companies, besides YTL to build such a high-speed or other alternative train services from Kuala Lumpur to Johor Baru or Singapore but is receptive if there are any.

"We are open. It is not a government initiative but a private one. We welcome them but before making any final decision, we must make sure that this is good for all parties," he said.

A Johor-based company, Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd, was reported to have expressed an interest in building an alternative high-speed train service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, with stops in Seremban, Malacca and Johor Baru.

The company is proposing to introduce a magnetic levitation train system that will run along the NorthSouth Expressway. Jalur Mudra is currently building Johor Baru's monorail system.

YTL To Submit Bullet Train Proposal To Government Soon
06-11-2006


PUTRAJAYA, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- The YTL Group is expected to submit its proposal on the RM8 billion Kuala Lumpur-Singapore bullet train project to the government soon, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said Monday.

At the same time, he said, the government investment arm, Khazanah Nasional Bhd, was still studying the social impact of the project.

"The government has yet to decide whether the train should end in Johor or Singapore as it has not seen the proposal," he told reporters after witnessing the signing of memorandum of understanding (MOU) between Port Klang Authority and Slovenia's Luka Koper at his ministry here today.

The government has given the green light to YTL's proposed project would enable commuters to reach Singapore within 90 minutes.

Asked whether the government would welcome proposals from other companies, Chan said the government was open to any proposal as it was a private initiative project.

Bombardier, the global leader in the rail equipment manufacturing and servicing industry, was reported to have shown keen interest to participate in the project as it wanted to have a re-look at its earlier proposal.

On the MOU, Chan said both port authorities would establish a framework for inter-port trade development, human resource training and technology transfer.

"Port Klang can use Luka Koper port as a gateway to penetrate the eastern Europe markets such as Austria, Hungary and Croatia while Luka Koper can use Port Klang as a springboard to Association of South-East Asian Nations market.

Port Klang Authority general manager, Datin Paduka O.C. Phang, and Luka Koper deputy chief executive officer, Aldo Babic, signed the MOU on behalf of their respective ports.

On the helicopter crash near Dungun yesterday, Chan said investigation into the cause of the crash was still going on.

The helicopter, carrying 19 oil rig workers, crashed at 11.45am while approaching ExxonMobil Tapis B platform, about 103 nautical miles off Dungun.

The co-pilot and the workers were rescued. The pilot, however, is still missing.

OK..JB Central Railway Station nearly complete liao!
JOHOR BAHRU SENTRAL ( JBS ):
Earthworks and bored pile installation has been completed. Construction of RE wall and building works are in progress
From Gerbang Perdana website

http://gsb.jkr.gov.my/en/images/db_progress/2006-09/JBS_0906.jpg

Construction of JBS building

http://gsb.jkr.gov.my/en/images/db_progress/2006-09/Hub_0906.jpg

Really hope the High Speed Train would be built!
JB Sentral looks really nice

me too!!! who needs the singapore hub when youve got a high speed train LOL

Rather extend double tracking project than high speed rail,at least it could provide freight service.

SANTHA OORJITHAM
New Straits Times

A high-speed train link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore has been on the back burner for longer than many realise. But the stakeholders tell SANTHA OORJITHAM they have yet to agree on whether the pros outweigh the cons.

WHEN Datuk Mohd Nadzmi Mohd Salleh was appointed by the Cabinet to implement the train project to Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA) in 1997, he was asked to use metre gauge tracks that were compatible with KTM trains.

But the executive chairman of Express Rail Link Sdn Bhd (ERL) held out for standard gauge tracks. He argued that would give him a better choice of rolling stock — and the possibility of a high-speed rail link to Singapore in the future.

"It made a lot of sense to link two Asean capitals and develop the south-western corridor, benefiting both Malaysia and Singapore," he recalls.

But since the proposal for a bullet train between both capitals surfaced in the media in July this year, stakeholders have been arguing about the advantages and disadvantages of the estimated RM8 billion project.

While some worry about the possible cost for taxpayers, others worry about the impact on Johor, Malaysia Airlines and other transport operators.

Back in 1997, then Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad appeared to buy the idea, Nadzmi says. And when the executive chairman presented the idea to then Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi in 2002, "he was excited".

ERL’s shareholders — YTL Corporation (50 per cent), Lembaga Urusan Tabung Haji (40 per cent) and Nadzmi’s personal investment holding company, Trisilco Equity (10 per cent) — also liked the idea.

ERL wrote to the Ministry of Transport in December 2004 with its proposal. The following month, Nadzmi says, the ministry replied that it had no objection.

And in July this year, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said YTL Corporation and its partners had been asked to conduct a feasibility study. Meanwhile, Khazanah Nasional Bhd embarked on a social impact study, aided by an international consultant.

Nadzmi was interviewed by Khazanah in his other capacity as executive chairman of Nadicorp Holdings Sdn Bhd, a public bus operator.

He told them the high-speed train would not cannibalise his bus customers: "It is not going to eliminate existing players but complement them. It is looking at an expanding market and will carve its own niche. If pricing is done properly, each mode of transport will find its own level — ERL, buses, MAS and low-cost carriers (LCCs). All this will offer more choice to the consumer."

The 90-minute service will target business travellers and those looking for the convenience of a shorter trip. And the price, Nadzmi warns, "will definitely be closer to airline fares" since it will be a "premium service" — although there may be lower rates during off-peak hours.

But a transport analyst estimates that both a bullet train and an LCC service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore would damage MAS on one of its most profitable routes, which earns between US$80 million (RM296 million) and US$100 million per year. This sector is split equally between MAS and Singapore Airlines, which now charge around RM800 for the round trip. In a New Straits Times street poll and in feedback to NST Online in July, some travellers said they were willing to pay up to RM500 for a 90-minute train service.

Air fares may drop in the future with liberalisation between Asean capitals by 2008. By 2010 this will extend to a secondary city and by 2015, Asean is due to have "open skies". Ministers of transport on both sides of the Causeway are also considering opening up the route to LCCs even earlier — possibly in time for Visit Malaysia Year 2007. But Nadzmi reckons fares for the electric train will still be competitive since aviation fuel prices are escalating.

Meanwhile, Johor Baru MP Datuk Shahrir Abdul Samad has two major concerns about the project.

"A high-speed train from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore would definitely require a bridge," he points out. Since the scenic bridge proposal has been dropped: "Why do you want to build a bridge now?"

Nadzmi admits the connection cannot be made without Singapore’s consent but is sanguine:

"We need support from the Singapore government and if it is beneficial to them, we hope they will support it. And we hope the Malaysian government would assist in negotiations with Singapore."

Some Singaporean government-linked companies are believed to have taken an interest in the project. If the initiative is private sector driven, maybe it could succeed where the scenic bridge failed.

Shahrir, who is chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, also complains that too much land has already been acquired for the purpose of transport in Johor state — for the North-South Highway and proposed double-tracking for KTM.

"The high-speed train proposal seems to suggest there would be a new, third corridor," he says. If so, "People in Johor would be unhappy because most of the land would be acquired from Johor."

Nadzmi argues that the project, which would probably run along the western coast, would make Johor more attractive by providing more infrastructure.

It could bring more investment into South Johor’s Iskandar Development Region: "It will spur economic development, from Singaporean investors for example, which would not kick in without it."

He also predicts it will boost tourism, with not only a non-stop service to Singapore but another service with stops including Malacca and Johor Baru. Over 32 million flew into Changi airport last year, he notes, whereas 20 million flew into KLIA, so there is capacity to grow.

Some also worry about how the project would be financed. In July, the prime minister cited the high-speed train as an example of a Private Finance Initiative (PFI) proposed by the private sector. This kind of project was too expensive for the government, he said, but the private sector could carry it out if it bore the full cost with a little help from the facilitation fund for things such as land acquisition and construction of electrical pylons.

"It won’t work because of the new infrastructure cost," claims the transport analyst.

"The Malaysian government would pay part of the capital expenditure and the people would pay."

"The government will not be involved in the equity," counters Nadzmi. "The private sector can make it viable, otherwise we wouldn’t put our money in. It won’t be a burden to anyone."

Since ERL already has a depot at KL Sentral, a 60km corridor up to KLIA (the entire length is an estimated 320km) and personnel with expertise in managing a bullet train, he argues: "We can do it cheaper. It is a logical extension of our existing business."

Johor-based Jalur Mudra Sdn Bhd offers magnetic levitation trains which it claims would be 40 per cent cheaper and take only 60 minutes.

But even the Johor company could have an uphill task persuading fellow Johoreans about yet another connection between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Shahrir says the proposal was discussed at the Umno Johor liaison committee meeting recently.

"The train could go to Johor Baru and end there," he says. "That would be the best way to get Johor support. That’s the consensus."

YTL confident of bullet train project

By Gan Yen Kuan
Email us your feedback at fd@bizedge.com


YTL Corporation Bhd is confident of getting the go-ahead from the government to undertake its proposed RM8 billion bullet train project linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Its group managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh Sock Ping told shareholders at the company's AGM on Dec 7 that the confidence was based on the government's favourable response to the project.

On whether the bullet train would end in Johor or Singapore, Yeoh said he wanted to see a direct link to Singapore, adding that the company had yet to approach the Singapore authorities on the proposal.

Nonetheless, Yeoh said he did not foresee any objections from the Singapore authorities as the project could boost traffic to the island republic's proposed casino resorts.

He added that the project was entirely private sector driven.

On another matter, Yeoh told shareholders that the company was also confident of undertaking a 13.4km rail link between the KL International Airport (KLIA) and the low-cost carrier terminal, via its 50%-owned Express Rail Link Sdn Bhd.

He said YTL Corp was able to build a world-class train with competitive fares, banking on its experience in constructing and operating the high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur Sentral Station and KLIA.

hoorey..we gonna have malaysian version of bullet train but i'm pretty sure the fare for the ticket must be very2 expensive,am i right...?

Malaysia says study backs S'pore bullet train

PUTRAJAYA - Malaysia gave its backing on Monday to a US$2.3 billion plan to build a bullet train between Kuala Lumpur and neighbouring Singapore, saying that a study had shown the proposal was feasible.

Malaysian property and utility firm YTL Corp Bhd has proposed to build and run the train between the two capitals, cutting the journey to 90 minutes from today's glacial pace of seven and a half hours along a colonial-era rail corridor.

'We are for it,' Malaysian Transport Minister Chan Kong Choy said in an interview at his office. 'We have allowed them (YTL) to do a feasibility study, which they have done, and so they came back to us and said the project is feasible,' he added. 'So now the government is conducting a social impact study because it involves land acquisition.'

The idea for a high-speed train between the two cities, spanning about 300 km, dates back to the late 1990s, but it came to the fore last year after the government invited companies to come up with ideas for privately funded projects.

Mr Chan said the plan would not involve any major government outlay on basic infrastructure, merely facilitating the project by allowing for land to be acquired and approvals granted, including negotiations with Singapore. -- REUTERS

it will be a shame if the bullet train dont stop in jb then to sg as almost the entire track will be on johor state.

IMO, it will be best that there will be a station in JBS. and service from KL, the train will stop at JBS then proceed to SG.. then the return from SG will skip JBS and go straight to KL. logic? lol.. :lol:

or, the bullet train will just end at JBS then SG MRT will link JBS to Kranji or watsoever.. :banana:


:|

hoorey..we gonna have malaysian version of bullet train but i'm pretty sure the fare for the ticket must be very2 expensive,am i right...?
it is possible to use 4 trains for a hourly service if budget is tight... 2 more trains can be added to double the frequency to 30mins every 2 hours (e.g. 5, 5.30, 6, 7, 7.30, 8, 9, 9.30) during daytime/peak hours/holiday season...

it will be a shame if the bullet train dont stop in jb then to sg as almost the entire track will be on johor state.

IMO, it will be best that there will be a station in JBS. and service from KL, the train will stop at JBS then proceed to SG.. then the return from SG will skip JBS and go straight to KL. logic? lol.. :lol:

or, the bullet train will just end at JBS then SG MRT will link JBS to Kranji or watsoever.. :banana: :|

it should stop in JBS, the issue here being the proximity of JBS to the coast line will limit its flexibility in terms of methods of crossing (if the singapore sector is pending inter-govt negotiations)... if it's a bridge it needs to ascend pretty quick or if it's a tunnel (due to overhead cables) then some land clearance is required.

even if there is an express service from singapore to KL, JB shld not be left out. the close distance between singapore and JB means it is possible to "group" the 2 stations together in a low-speed sector, and then it can speed up from there.....

KL backs bullet train proposal


January 16 2007


MALAYSIA gave its backing yesterday to a US$2.3 billion (RM8 billion) plan to build a bullet train between Kuala Lumpur and neighbouring Singapore, saying that a study has shown the proposal is feasible.

Property and utility firm YTL Corp Bhd has proposed to build and run the train between the two capitals, cutting the journey to 90 minutes from today's glacial pace of seven-and-a-half hours along a colonial-era rail corridor.

"We are for it," Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said in an interview at his office in Putrajaya.

"We have allowed them (YTL) to do a feasibility study, which they have done, and so they came back to us and said the project is feasible," he added.

"So now the Government is conducting a social impact study because it involves land acquisition."

The idea for a high-speed train between the two cities, spanning about 300km, dates back to the late 1990s, but it came to the fore last year after the Government invited companies to come up with ideas for privately-funded projects.

YTL already runs an express train between Kuala Lumpur and the city's international airport about 60km to the south.

YTL managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh Sock Ping welcomed the Government's support for the proposal, but declined to give any details.

"It's very feasible," he said by phone. "It's not difficult."

Chan said the plan will not involve any major government outlay on basic infrastructure, merely facilitating the project by allowing for land to be acquired and approvals granted, including negotiations with Singapore.

"The Government thought that the project will be very beneficial, particularly to the development of the southern part of the peninsula," he said. "Having said that, we are very careful before making the final decision." - Reuters

Singapore ready to consider high-speed rail link with KL


January 17 2007


SINGAPORE: The city-state is open to a proposal for a high-speed rail link between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur, Transport Minister Raymond Lim said.
Lim, who is also Singapore’s Second Minister for Foreign Affairs, said he hasn’t heard from YTL Corp, which is proposing to build the US$2.3 billion (RM8 billion) rail link, or the Malaysian Government on the project.

“We ’re open to all proposals that may benefit both countries —Singapore and Malaysia, ” Lim, who was attending an award ceremony at Changi airport, said yesterday.

“I look forward to receiving the proposal so that we can study it and see how best we can proceed.” A high-speed train line will offer commuters quicker access between Kuala Lumpur and the island-state, which is located about 300 kilometres south, and help boost travel between the two neighbours. More than 7.1 million Singaporeans visited Malaysia in the first nine months of last year, while 443,736 Malaysians travelled to the city-state, figures from the governments showed.

Malaysia ’s Government said it hasn’t decided on whether to approve the YTL proposal, which is currently being studied by the Economic Planning Unit, Transport Ministry secretary-general Datuk Zakaria Bahari told reporters at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Sepang yesterday.

Malaysia supports the proposal after a study showed the plan is feasible, Singapore’s Business Times said yesterday, citing a Reuters report.

The Government is conducting a study on how it will affect society as the plan involved land acquisition, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy was cited as saying.

YTL, owner of the railway from Malaysia ’s Kuala Lumpur International Airport to the city, said last July it is in talks with the Government on the project and expects to reach an agreement in two years.

The current rail tracks into Singapore were set as early as 1913, a web site showed, when both countries were under British rule. Travel from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur takes about seven hours by rail, almost twice the time taken to drive between the cities.

The two South-East Asian nations are also in discussions to ease restrictions on air travel that will allow discount carriers including Malaysia’s AirAsia and Singapore’s Tiger Airways to start ser vices.

Chan has also suggested talks on greater liberalisation of air services in the first quarter this year, Lim said.

Singapore has said it is willing to allow other carriers to share the route because the move would boost traffic and help preserve Changi airport’s status as a regional hub.

AirAsia, South-East Asia’s largest budget carrier, said last week it expects the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur route to be open before June.

Singapore Airlines and Malaysian Airline System currently dominate the route. —Bloomberg

the close distance between singapore and JB means it is possible to "group" the 2 stations together in a low-speed sector, and then it can speed up from there.....

In other way instead of having transit station at JB, they may use separated coaches for travellers disembark at singapore only. This may be able to sort out the immigration issue where the travellers must first cleared at its starting station.

Somehow ahh i think ahh this project will never happen!!!Simple reason if the gov wants to see air asia and malaysia airline gulung tikar in a hurry it would be stupid enough to let it go on!WA banyak cantik punya singapore if build another bridge for this project can one but not demolish the causeway!Ah Ya no need super geduper bullet train between this 2 cities just improve the present tracks and have slightly faster trains not like the ones now!!

don't be so square lah!:ohno: Nagoya-Tokyo route has buses,shinkanseng(bullet train),normal train...does it mean that Japan Airline/ANA gulung tikar?...the proposed speed train are built to boost economic activities between 2 regions, and a government has to consider nation's interest rather than company's interest.

i setuju pendapat dengilo pasal jambatan tue.

don't be so square lah!:ohno: Nagoya-Tokyo route has buses,shinkanseng(bullet train),normal train...does it mean that Japan Airline/ANA gulung tikar?...the proposed speed train are built to boost economic activities between 2 regions, and a government has to consider nation's interest rather than company's interest.

:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

Nagoya-Tokyo is NOT comparable to KL-Singapore!!!!!!!!

Tokyo is one of the largest cities on earth, Nagoya has just over 3mil inhabitants, including its metro population it has 8mil !! There are far more commuters in between Tokyo-Nagoya than there would be in the KL-Singapore route!!!! KL-SG pales in comparison, I mean simply just look at the size of Tokyo, it's a mega city. The same can't be said about Singapore or KL, which are relatively small!! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

don't be so square lah!:ohno:

^^Don't be so stupid lah! :bash: :bash: Making stupid comparisons!!!

I would actually prefer double tracking the KTM line until Johor over this HSL.

Unlike HSL,the KTM line would be able to offer freight service besides passenger service,hence offering additional income.

harap haraplah ada keretapi laju dari Kuala Lumpur terus ke Singapura..... harga tiket kapal terbang mahal sangat... kalau naik bas pulak selalu sakit punggung... Kalau ada keretapi dapatlah gerak-gerak siket...

Ok lets make everyone happy!! Lets say one day this system becomes a reality! Just how much would u guys pay to be on the train that would dussh u between KL and Spore under 2 hrs?Lets assume its the cheapest ticket would be lets say $250RM one way !!!YTL would not build it to loose money that we know !

i'm putting it at RM150 for a return trip, which requires 3 million returns trips per year (slightly less than the half the 8 million trips clocked currently) to generate a return in 18 years.

Will this HSL have an effect on the KTM double tracking until Johor?

^^Don't be so stupid lah! :bash: :bash: Making stupid comparisons!!!

hey, if you consider short term profit...don't build anything lah....putrajaya, ERL,LRT....those are loss making mega projects, so it should be stop lah? idiot...

hey, if you consider short term profit...don't build anything lah....putrajaya, ERL,LRT....those are loss making mega projects, so it should be stop lah? idiot...

WTF?? seriously!! What has this got to do with short term profit?????? Your the idiot thats comparing the commuter ridership of Tokyo and Nagoya to that of KL and Singapore!!!!!!!! IT IS A STUPID COMPARISON!!!! Tokyo is a MEGA city that has more people than KL AND Singapore combined!!!!

So WTF has it got to do with short term profit???? You're the friggin idiot that makes stupid comparisons, then you don't even have the brains to support your argument on WHY they are a good comparison in the first place, why you think its worthwhile to draw those comparisons!!!! KL and Singapore is not the same as Tokyo and Nagoya, its not even remotely near anything you can draw comparisons to. Your only defence, quoting "short term" profit!! Hey you silly little BOY!! Does this disprove what I say?? My point was its a stupid comparison because just the sheer sizes of commuters are different, like I said before Tokyo is a megacity!! What has this got to do with short term profit?? Stick to the point, show me why this is a Tokyo-Nagoya is good comparison to KL and Singapore??

hey, if you consider short term profit...don't build anything lah....putrajaya, ERL,LRT....those are loss making mega projects, so it should be stop lah? idiot...

What has this got to do with making stupid comparisons?? did I say "don't build anything lah....putrajaya, ERL,LRT....those are loss making mega projects, so it should be stop lah?" ??????????????????????? Did I say anything should be stopped?? You're putting words in my mouth, I didn't say. But this folks is typical of a guy that can't prove his point, they start putting words in your mouth, since they can't actually defend what they're saying. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

I love Putrajaya and anyways the High speed rail link is a private venture, no government funds involved, if some rich guy thinks he can make money by building a bridge to Brunei, then good for him, power to him, I couldn't care less!!!!!

Anyways back topic!

I was saying you were making stupid comparisons!! And Comparing Nagoya-Tokyo to KL-Singapore is a damn stupid comparison, for the reasons I've said copiously!!!!! If there's an idiot here, it's YOU!! You can't even admit that you made a stupid comparison!! It seems like you're trying to back it up.. But the only way you're trying to back it up is by putting words in my mouth!!! You still haven't shown why its NOT a stupid comparison?????? So until then, it IS a STUPID comparison and YOU'RE the idiot!

me totally against this project....

wowowo...calm down guys......

I'm for this project... I wanna get to Singapore in only one n half hour from KL... without paying high price ;)

WTF?? seriously!! What has this got to do with short term profit?????? Your the idiot thats comparing the commuter ridership of Tokyo and Nagoya to that of KL and Singapore!!!!!!!! IT IS A STUPID COMPARISON!!!! Tokyo is a MEGA city that has more people than KL AND Singapore combined!!!!

So WTF has it got to do with short term profit???? You're the friggin idiot that makes stupid comparisons, then you don't even have the brains to support your argument on WHY they are a good comparison in the first place, why you think its worthwhile to draw those comparisons!!!! KL and Singapore is not the same as Tokyo and Nagoya, its not even remotely near anything you can draw comparisons to. Your only defence, quoting "short term" profit!! Hey you silly little BOY!! Does this disprove what I say?? My point was its a stupid comparison because just the sheer sizes of commuters are different, like I said before Tokyo is a megacity!! What has this got to do with short term profit?? Stick to the point, show me why this is a Tokyo-Nagoya is good comparison to KL and Singapore??


hey you imbecile old lady!!...i did a 'stupid' comparison huh?...look, during the meiji period, the emperor decided to build railways connecting tokyo to other cities.and he abandoned the idea that road network has to be the priority instead of railways. that time, population was very small, but he didn't care. that's why you can see japanese technology in railway system is the world's first!!and perhaps.. it helps the economic activities among the connected cities.

so, i did show you that the comparison has something to do with technologies and economies. and forget about 'population' thing.!!so..fikir2 sendirik lah..tu pun kalo nko ni jenis pompuan yg ada otak.

BAKA YAROU KA OMAE!!??

hey you imbecile old lady!!...i did a 'stupid' comparison huh?...look, during the meiji period, the emperor decided to build railways connecting tokyo to other cities.and he abandoned the idea that road network has to be the priority instead of railways. that time, population was very small, but he didn't care. that's why you can see japanese technology in railway system is the world's first!!and perhaps.. it helps the economic activities among the connected cities.

so, i did show you that the comparison has something to do with technologies and economies. and forget about 'population' thing.!!so..fikir2 sendirik lah..tu pun kalo nko ni jenis pompuan yg ada otak.

BAKA YAROU KA OMAE!!??

You're bringing up the Meiji restoration?? Railways have done an amazing job of bringing transport to the masses, it opened up America. Meiji restoration saw Japan trying to open up its interior in the same way!! BUT THIS is NOT a high speed rail network!! Its not about the meiji period of connecting cities by railways simply because major cities in the peninsula are connected!! KL-Singapore are connected by railways already!!!!! The Meiji period didn't not introduce high speed railway!!!! they were just connecting them!! Moron!! Yes you made stupid comparisons, even worse, you're STILL making stupid comparisons!!

But stick to the point for once, you just seem to be unable to do that!! I'm talking about the comparison of 2 distinct cities here, which you made!! Kuala Lumpur is No Tokyo, neither is Singapore!!!!!! The amount of people, commuter throughput makes having so many transport connections in Japan viable, the bullet train, highways, large airlines, in economic terms it was viable. We talk about infrastructure in terms of throughput, Japans economic needs supported High Speed Railways in the 1960's, it supports ultra high density flights between cities. Singapore and KL is nowhere near having the viable mass that Tokyo to Nagoya has!!!

You want to talk about economic comparison, then talk about economic comparisons!! Don't give me a history lesson, I know about the Meiji restoration, the Meiji period has no value in comparing KL-Singapore to Tokyo and Nagoya!!!! Japans high speed rail network was build way after the meiji restoration, it was a time when they needed another high speed alternative to flying!! The economics behind it then supported the bullet train!!! Back to topic, Currently the modes of transport between the 2 cities (KL-SG) aren't liberalized and restricted causing for a lack of innovation and technological adoption, artificially higher prices. You can't compare Singapore and KL to that of Tokyo and Nagoya, even on YOUR economic and technological reasons!!! Technological adoption can be by other ways, it can be induced by privatizing the railways (KTM), liberalizing air routes between Singapore and KL!! Economic reasons, well that remains to be seen, the KL-SG market is distorted by the government right now the viability of the high speed rail link is based on government owned KTM providing shit service and SIA/MAS holding practically a monopoly on the routes, charging RM400 on a 45 minute flight!!

You're a friggin joke Osh!!

Ok lets make everyone happy!! Lets say one day this system becomes a reality! Just how much would u guys pay to be on the train that would dussh u between KL and Spore under 2 hrs?Lets assume its the cheapest ticket would be lets say $250RM one way !!!YTL would not build it to loose money that we know !

hmmm....YTL might adopt the Airasia's business mechnism ticketing system? Or Eurostar's style promotion, early bird and no fixed price patterns?

hmmm....YTL might adopt the Airasia's business mechnism ticketing system? Or Eurostar's style promotion, early bird and no fixed price patterns?
Price discrimination? I don't expect it to work with rail, at least not even this HSL. Those on budget, locals or students will probably still prefer to pay RM30 (counting inflation) and spend a bit more time to save money.

Yield management also won't work here since no-show rates aren't going to be high, and it's going to run in a manner more closely to a 'shuttle' service where people go to the station, buy a ticket and go, instead of booking them well in advance...

The air travel industry is a different piece of cake altogether.

Hee Hee baru preposed sudah jadi ini macam !This project will one day be reality but not so soonlah lets take it to the next levellah Singapore-Kuala Lumpur-Bangkok-Saigon up to China! more realisticlah when ? may be not in our life timelah

ZZZZZZIP it...........

But stick to the point for once, you just seem to be unable to do that!!

Don't give me a history lesson, I know about the Meiji restoration, the Meiji period has no value in comparing KL-Singapore to Tokyo and Nagoya!!!!

Technological adoption can be by other ways, it can be induced by privatizing the railways (KTM), liberalizing air routes between Singapore and KL!!

You're a friggin joke Osh!!

Yes, makcik 'Stick to the point', you seem to 'know everything' that's why you did not realize that KTM has been privatized.....long ago...and how the heck liberalizing air route can do with something 'technological'?...

just remember..the train will be set to stop at seremban, malacca and johor baharu too...so, it is not about KL and Singapore only!!

your douche is still ok, right?

haha.....very ambitious plan....it is time matters....the day will come....
Hee Hee baru preposed sudah jadi ini macam !This project will one day be reality but not so soonlah lets take it to the next levellah Singapore-Kuala Lumpur-Bangkok-Saigon up to China! more realisticlah when ? may be not in our life timelah

Price discrimination? I don't expect it to work with rail, at least not even this HSL. Those on budget, locals or students will probably still prefer to pay RM30 (counting inflation) and spend a bit more time to save money.

Yield management also won't work here since no-show rates aren't going to be high, and it's going to run in a manner more closely to a 'shuttle' service where people go to the station, buy a ticket and go, instead of booking them well in advance...

The air travel industry is a different piece of cake altogether.

Hmm...I agree with this...market for high speed rail connection btw KL and Singapore is slightly interdependent with the air aviation market, however, somehow there are mutually exclusive, in other words, two markets are somehow like mutual exclusive subsets in a Transportation Set.....:)

business people may prefer aviation due to the connectivity with Changi Airport and comfort and also time saving. besides, others will prefer rail if they are not rushed by the time....

If the rail terminal is at Changi, maybe people will prefer rail rather than aviation.

so it will stop at seremban, mlk and jb as well right? Well, it will definitely benefit these 5 cities. This is better than linking only KL - Singapore. There r many singaporean visiting JB and Malacca during holiday season, and Malacca and JB definitely need a stop there.

so it will stop at seremban, mlk and jb as well right? Well, it will definitely benefit these 5 cities. This is better than linking only KL - Singapore. There r many singaporean visiting JB and Malacca during holiday season, and Malacca and JB definitely need a stop there.

Personally I don't think it is wise to stop at these cities. Why would Singaporean use HSL just to hop to JB?? Make no sense.

It is not wise because:

1) These cities do not have an extensive and up-to-standard local public transport to support the passengers who arrived at these stations.

2) These cities are not that far away from KL and Singapore. Driving would be more attractive after considering this fact and number 1 above. Self-drive would avoid the hassle of waiting for the unreliable local public transport.

3) Having too many stops in between would just slow down the train. It is kind of defeat the purpose of having a train that can travel at 300kph. Might as well extend the current KLIA express service to serve these cities.

4) You have to consider both inbound and outbound traffic in and out of the stations. While there may be considerable number of people from KL and Singapore who may stop at these cities, but the local population is just too small to support the outbound traffic requirement. And travelling on HSL is prohibitively expensive. The service may just end up stopping for virtually zero passengers.

Honestly, I don't think there is a need to extend the HSL into Singapore. The train can't move as fast as it meant to be when travelling on Singaporean soil because the train corridor will most probably be transerving through several urban area. Sounds like a waste of capital investment. This capital investment will be better spend to extend the HSL line to Penang.

The best model is have a final stop in JB, and quickly work on the connectivity between the station and nearby SMRT station. Either through JB monorail or extension of SMRT. The other stops are Melaka, Putrajaya, KL and Penang.

Personally I don't think it is wise to stop at these cities. Why would Singaporean use HSL just to hop to JB?? Make no sense.

It is not wise because:

1) These cities do not have an extensive and up-to-standard local public transport to support the passengers who arrived at these stations.

2) These cities are not that far away from KL and Singapore. Driving would be more attractive after considering this fact and number 1 above. Self-drive would avoid the hassle of waiting for the unreliable local public transport.

3) Having too many stops in between would just slow down the train. It is kind of defeat the purpose of having a train that can travel at 300kph. Might as well extend the current KLIA express service to serve these cities.

4) You have to consider both inbound and outbound traffic in and out of the stations. While there may be considerable number of people from KL and Singapore who may stop at these cities, but the local population is just too small to support the outbound traffic requirement. And travelling on HSL is prohibitively expensive. The service may just end up stopping for virtually zero passengers.

Honestly, I don't think there is a need to extend the HSL into Singapore. The train can't move as fast as it meant to be when travelling on Singaporean soil because the train corridor will most probably be transerving through several urban area. Sounds like a waste of capital investment. This capital investment will be better spend to extend the HSL line to Penang.

The best model is have a final stop in JB, and quickly work on the connectivity between the station and nearby SMRT station. Either through JB monorail or extension of SMRT. The other stops are Melaka, Putrajaya, KL and Penang.

Actually, the government has plan to build HSL to link all cities in Malaysia. However, I think the plan will take long long time to be carried out.

erm.....taiwan HSL got 8 station...having more station wont slow down the train.each station they stop 2min only and they accelerate very fast.taipei >khaosing 345Km for 90 min only... rm160 beside that they have different timetable some train is direct train more expensive but wont stop at every station taipei>khaoshiong ,
I havent try yet..hihi...because all station locate at uluulu suburbs.except taipei where they build underground..the cheapest ticket is rm5 taipei city to taipei suburbs.

http://www.thsrc.com.tw/tw/travel/before/ticket_info.asp
http://japanese.rti.org.tw/imagedb/20060602/20060602172600.jpg
http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/lg01/27/0000086927/74/imgcff5268369vnhc.jpeg

It will be cool if the price is right or slightly above that. I'm all for relaxing-shorter-time travel. Been on the KTM Komuter ride between KL and Seremban? That's the amount of time for the travel if this project is realised! More comfortable too :cool:

Sorry for disturbing.....

Most of experts said this project shouldn't be built and just maximise the use of KTM.:)

Yes, makcik 'Stick to the point', you seem to 'know everything' that's why you did not realize that KTM has been privatized.....long ago...and how the heck liberalizing air route can do with something 'technological'?...

just remember..the train will be set to stop at seremban, malacca and johor baharu too...so, it is not about KL and Singapore only!!

your douche is still ok, right?

KTM has been made into a corporation!! BUT It is still 100% government owned!!!!! In other countries where intercity railways have been privatized proper, there are many railway companies operating on the same system!! British rail is the perfect example, in Britain have many companies now operating after privatization with distinct brand names, like Richard Bransons, Virgin Trains!! KTM is still government owned and controlled, the legal entity has been made private, but thats about it!!

Liberalization leads to competition which leads to technological innovation!!

You still want to defend the ridiculous comparing of Singapore or KL to Tokyo and Nagoya?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The point is exactly this, Comparing Megacity Tokyo and Nagoya to that of tiny KL and Singapore is stupid!! You still aren't able to defend your point why its a good comparison, giving bull useless stupid, absolutely irrelevant points like, short-term profit and the Meiji period?? How KL and Singapore can be comparable to megalopolis Tokyo and Nagoya is still not shown. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

So true,KTM already conducted a very expensive feasability study on the double tracking project until JB years ago,it'd be a waste if it's shelved just because of this HSL.

erm.....taiwan HSL got 8 station...having more station wont slow down the train.each station they stop 2min only and they accelerate very fast.taipei >khaosing 345Km for 90 min only... rm160 beside that they have different timetable some train is direct train more expensive but wont stop at every station taipei>khaoshiong ,
I havent try yet..hihi...because all station locate at uluulu suburbs.except taipei where they build underground..the cheapest ticket is rm5 taipei city to taipei suburbs.



We'll just have to wait and see whether all these station in between Taipei & Khaoshing would be fully utilized or not. I doubt it.

Haven't you heard complains from some quarters on how the alignment was chosen. The system would have been better in design if it avoids some of these small stations and have a shorter track distance Taipei-Khaoshing.

Actually, the government has plan to build HSL to link all cities in Malaysia. However, I think the plan will take long long time to be carried out.

Yes, you're right. It is posted on the NPP website. http://www.npptownplan.gov.my

Impressive indeed.

Sorry for disturbing.....

Most of experts said this project shouldn't be built and just maximise the use of KTM.:)

Can you show me the link to these experts? I love to learn from them.

I'm anything but agaisnt the idea of widening the existing and congested PLUS highway. PLUS highway is great, and was the best decision to spread wealth in all malaysian states. We need a good highway infrastucture, and we have that now. But it's getting congested, so We shouldn't rely on cars too much. We should upgrade all the KTM's services, yes double tracking them. It's good for smoothing transfer of goods between all cities and port. And KTM should be subsidezed by goverment, no privitization. I think German, Austrlian, Swiss, scandinavian rail system are nice, because they are real national rail. British Rail are crap because they privatized it.

We need another High speed service to link the major cities. Ideally own by private company. So We won't need to wait KTM upgrading its tracking first..since the high speed rail will privately fund. This project will definely good for the business too. Any document or mail send in the morning can be delived by noon. Imagine the business possibilities, tourism, cosmopolitan culture(2 world class orchestras, concert halls, theatres and pop concerts). Good for logistic too, DHL or FedEx only need one logistic hub in KL-Singapore for overseas services. Multination companies might link 2 countires as one market hence set up just 1 operation office. Good for compition. You guys might think Singapore will be the winner. but I think since the high-speed rail will control by malaysian company. malaysia can take more advatages, definely will bring win-win situation.

Well , these are just my opinion.

Sorry for disturbing.....

Most of experts said this project shouldn't be built and just maximise the use of KTM.:)

If Malaysia's railways are fully privatized and liberalized, there's no reason in seeing why YTL can't operate a high speed train network on the same KTM tracks, albeit with a few track upgrades, installation of ATP devices and improved signaling. It'll provide competition within Malaysian intercity railways.

Narrow gauge trains can provide high speed service also, Queensland Rail "Tilt trains" provide a high speed service around 165 km/h. The tilt trains are electrified up until Bundaberg and Deisel to Cairns. They work on a rail network that is largely single tracked and have set a speed record of 210km/h.

Currently, IMO the YTL high speed rail link does seem viable because of Malaysian government intrusion in the Singapore-KL market, with artificially high prices for flights and incredibly slow and bad service by KTM. The idea sounds lucrative and appealing now in light of the current situation, but if there wasn't government intrusion, perhaps it might not be so viable.

Currently I think its great that the HSL is a private venture, no tax ringgit funds being used, but I think the HSL is taking advantage of government mishandling of transportation linkages to Singapore, I fear only at the expense of KTM which still receives government support for some of its services. IF YTL wants to run trains the speed of around 160km/h like its ERL, then operating on KTM tracks with minor upgrades would be better than building a separate line.

A true HSL, like the one in Taiwan would work if YTL plans to have trains travel at greater than 300km/h. Remember according to news report, YTL plans to build the HSL line at around USD 2.1 Billion or RM8 Billion, that kind of money does support the Taiwan HSR which was built at a cost of USD 15 Billion. So I suspect YTL plans an ERL style railway meaning only 160km/h. In this case, operating on KTM tracks with a slight upgrade should be the better alternative.

Yes, you're right. It is posted on the NPP website. http://www.npptownplan.gov.my

Impressive indeed.

That is a great find, a great website!! Nice one tomkat!!

http://www.npptownplan.gov.my/images/nits-big.jpg

It'll take a long time for this to happen, especially if the government plans to fund this itself. Malaysia is still a developing country, railways in Europe such as in Germany, Scandinavia, come from welfare states with high taxes and thus a huge tax income. Thus the governments have the funds to channel it to the railways.

Even in Taiwan it is a private venture.

That is a great find, a great website!! Nice one tomkat!!

http://www.npptownplan.gov.my/images/nits-big.jpg

It'll take a long time for this to happen, especially if the government plans to fund this itself. Malaysia is still a developing country, railways in Europe such as in Germany, Scandinavia, come from welfare states with high taxes and thus a huge tax income. Thus the governments have the funds to channel it to the railways.

Even in Taiwan it is a private venture.

Ya, dunno whether i'll still be on the earth when it is built.

Britain have many companies now operating after privatization with distinct brand names, like Richard Bransons, Virgin Trains!!



Yes, Virgin Train, Eurostar and all these privatized companies adopted the flexible no fixed price ticketing system to maximize the capacity of their train. Trains tickets can be very expensive during peak hours or holiday seasons. To avoid empty train at certain hours they will target on cheap advance booking system and also target on those on budget students or locals over the unfriendly hours. Logistics services are their main income too.

The similar system also applied to UK coache systems.

I m in the opinion that HSL shld end in singapore. Most travellers would prefer a direct linking between cities without having to exhange station even though there ll be some time loss.

On the stopover at JB, why not in the first? Do you want to have a railway bypass a major city and can't serve the locals in the case they want direct linking to kl? Railway concept is different from air. It has few stopovers to meet the basic purpose of connectivity even though some may argue there may be no demand.

Haiyo pening.Rail network in M'sian may become rojak.KTM in charge of narrow gauge HSL Rawang-Ipoh and YTL probably opt for standard gauge in the South.
I'd hope all rail network in M'sia would become narrow gauge,no need for the train to be so fast with standard gauge,as long the ride is safe,comfortable and punctual.

As we've seen from LRT,when 2 companies do the same thing..all jadi cincai boncai like the horrible Masjid Jamek interchange :nuts:.

Man,if only Melaka has the HSL ready.Wil lbe traveling up and down every weekend then:D

Can you show me the link to these experts? I love to learn from them.

I'm anything but agaisnt the idea of widening the existing and congested PLUS highway. PLUS highway is great, and was the best decision to spread wealth in all malaysian states. We need a good highway infrastucture, and we have that now. But it's getting congested, so We shouldn't rely on cars too much. We should upgrade all the KTM's services, yes double tracking them. It's good for smoothing transfer of goods between all cities and port. And KTM should be subsidezed by goverment, no privitization. I think German, Austrlian, Swiss, scandinavian rail system are nice, because they are real national rail. British Rail are crap because they privatized it.

We need another High speed service to link the major cities. Ideally own by private company. So We won't need to wait KTM upgrading its tracking first..since the high speed rail will privately fund. This project will definely good for the business too. Any document or mail send in the morning can be delived by noon. Imagine the business possibilities, tourism, cosmopolitan culture(2 world class orchestras, concert halls, theatres and pop concerts). Good for logistic too, DHL or FedEx only need one logistic hub in KL-Singapore for overseas services. Multination companies might link 2 countires as one market hence set up just 1 operation office. Good for compition. You guys might think Singapore will be the winner. but I think since the high-speed rail will control by malaysian company. malaysia can take more advatages, definely will bring win-win situation.

Well , these are just my opinion.


Sorry bobdikl..:) I just heard it in Buletin Utama.:)

Satu lagi, what do you think about all the cargo planes will landing at??
Cangi Airport or KLIA??:) (it my opinion of course they will landing at Singapore).

Sorry bobdikl..:) I just heard it in Buletin Utama.:)

Satu lagi, what do you think about all the cargo planes will landing at??
Cangi Airport or KLIA??:) (it my opinion of course they will landing at Singapore).

Huh? What does that have to do with HSL? HSL doesn't carry cargo... :nuts:

http://japanese.rti.org.tw/imagedb/20060602/20060602172600.jpg
http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/lg01/27/0000086927/74/imgcff5268369vnhc.jpeg

wow...this one is 'nozomi-type' bullet train....our KL-Singapore will not likely to have those. but ours is just a 'high speed train'. SHINKANSEN and 'High Speed Train' is NOT the same thing...don't get confused.

wow...this one is 'nozomi-type' bullet train....our KL-Singapore will not likely to have those. but ours is just a 'high speed train'. SHINKANSEN and 'High Speed Train' is NOT the same thing...don't get confused.

The train is JR T700 series. Not necessarily running on Nozomi service, but Hikari as well.

Huh? What is the different between Shinkansen and High Speed Train?

The train is JR T700 series. Not necessarily running on Nozomi service, but Hikari as well.

Huh? What is the different between Shinkansen and High Speed Train?

I think he meant shinkansen is a super high speed train (300km/h) while the one between SG and KL in the future will only be a high speed one (160km/h).

yeah...my mistake. Shinkansen is the bullet train. but high speed train is like...Shinkaisoku. something like that lah...u know that shinkansen and shinkaisoku is not using the same track kan?

I think he meant shinkansen is a super high speed train (300km/h) while the one between SG and KL in the future will only be a high speed one (160km/h).

Physically impossible.

To travel a distance of 350km within 90 minutes, one has to use a shinkansen-type train. That would give you an average travelling speed of 230 kph. 160 kph type of train can't achieve that.

The best reference is the Taiwan HSR which serve 345km within 90 minutes. It still needs to use JR T700 train.

What the Malaysian company is trying to do is to look at the possibilities of extending the current std gauge track from KLIA to Singapore. I think it is brilliant. There is no real advantage of having a new track between Putrajaya/KLIA to KL Sentral. First of all, there is no available straight corridor for the train track between these two places. Without straight corridor, the train can't move at 300 kph anyway. Plus travelling at high speed in urban area is a big no-no due to noise emitting from the train. High speed train can be quite loud!!

So, most probably this service would have 350 kph designed track between KLIA and Singapore before slowing down to 120 kph average speed from KLIA to KL Sentral.

yeah...my mistake. Shinkansen is the bullet train. but high speed train is like...Shinkaisoku. something like that lah...u know that shinkansen and shinkaisoku is not using the same track kan?

Shinkaisoku is nothing more than an express train with limited stop. Something like the express ktm commuter service. The average speed is only 110 kph. And again, just like the ktm service.

If the logic applies, then one could consider KTM commuter service as a High Speed Train :lol:

In fact, 160 kph is not regarded as high speed service. It is a normal speed for commuter train. KTM double track is designed for 160 kph max speed. But you don't see KTM going around and boasting this service as "High Speed Rail" as what ERL is promoting theirs. :ohno: Technically, both are in the same group.

Huh? What does that have to do with HSL? HSL doesn't carry cargo... :nuts:

No. What i mean is all the airplanes and cargos will stop at Singapore airport first pastu baru mereka pergi ke Malaysia melalui HSL.

Tetapi kalau HSL tak dibuat all the tourists will straight to the KLIA... (Understand or not)

(i'm not good in explaining laa)

Shinkaisoku is nothing more than an express train with limited stop. Something like the express ktm commuter service. The average speed is only 110 kph. And again, just like the ktm service.

If the logic applies, then one could consider KTM commuter service as a High Speed Train :lol:

In fact, 160 kph is not regarded as high speed service. It is a normal speed for commuter train. KTM double track is designed for 160 kph max speed. But you don't see KTM going around and boasting this service as "High Speed Rail" as what ERL is promoting theirs. :ohno: Technically, both are in the same group.

Good points especially about it not being considered strictly speaking a high speed service. Physically it is possible to have 160km/h on narrow gauge or meter gauge track like those of KTM! QR tilt trains for example travel on narrow gauge tracks yet they travel at speeds of 160km/h, the same speeds as the standard gauge ERL.

Building separate tracks when for the speeds being utilized could conceivably be achieved on KTM tracks, its a real shame. It a shame that its not being done now and that people have to spend sometimes 7 hours or more traveling currently by train from KL to SG. If the railways were privatized, YTL could conceivably operate trains direct to Singapore along side KTM intercity services. Having 2 train operators is great for the consumer, more choices. YTL would also not have to deal with infrastructure issues, obtaining land, constructing seperate stations, especially in land scare and pricey Singapore. It would be the cheaper option, YTL buys the train sets, upgrades a some tracks installs additional signals and safety precautions, hey presto 160km/h service to Singapore in a quicker time frame than it takes to build a new train service. It would be cheaper too so perhaps the savings get passed down to the passengers.

Physically impossible.

To travel a distance of 350km within 90 minutes, one has to use a shinkansen-type train. That would give you an average travelling speed of 230 kph. 160 kph type of train can't achieve that.

The best reference is the Taiwan HSR which serve 345km within 90 minutes. It still needs to use JR T700 train.

What the Malaysian company is trying to do is to look at the possibilities of extending the current std gauge track from KLIA to Singapore. I think it is brilliant. There is no real advantage of having a new track between Putrajaya/KLIA to KL Sentral. First of all, there is no available straight corridor for the train track between these two places. Without straight corridor, the train can't move at 300 kph anyway. Plus travelling at high speed in urban area is a big no-no due to noise emitting from the train. High speed train can be quite loud!!

So, most probably this service would have 350 kph designed track between KLIA and Singapore before slowing down to 120 kph average speed from KLIA to KL Sentral.

I don't think the trains will exceed 300km/h. The amount of money YTL plans to spend to make this a 300km/h service doesn't seem to be enough. Time will tell...

Building separate tracks when for the speeds being utilized could conceivably be achieved on KTM tracks, its a real shame. It a shame that its not being done now and that people have to spend sometimes 7 hours or more traveling currently by train from KL to SG. If the railways were privatized, YTL could conceivably operate trains direct to Singapore along side KTM intercity services. Having 2 train operators is great for the consumer, more choices. YTL would also not have to deal with infrastructure issues, obtaining land, constructing seperate stations, especially in land scare and pricey Singapore. It would be the cheaper option, YTL buys the train sets, upgrades a some tracks installs additional signals and safety precautions, hey presto 160km/h service to Singapore in a quicker time frame than it takes to build a new train service. It would be cheaper too so perhaps the savings get passed down to the passengers.

You're right! But must not forget that KTM was privatized before and it failed miserably. There are not many private train operators in the world that actually make profit out of rail service. In Japan, besides JR East, almost all other JR operators hardly make any profit.

Put that aside, I believe YTL and KTM could work some business model to make sure a real win-win situation. These two organization could pool their capital together to fund the Seremban-Singapore double tracking project and eventually share the track for their services.

With a 160 kph train service, travelling to Singapore would take around 2-1/2 to 3 hr - one hour longer than what it could have been with a Shinkansen service. But what is the difference considering the amount of saving on the capital investment. :)

But if YTL and the government think that it can be profitable while not sacrificing KTM and MAS share in this market, then all mean please proceed. As long as no public fund is on stake. I for one would love to try this new service.

You're right! But must not forget that KTM was privatized before and it failed miserably.

Privatization has gone wrong quite a few times in Malaysia, Malaysia Airlines is another great example of privatization gone bad. I could write at lengths why its gone bad, but thats a different topic. :)


There are not many private train operators in the world that actually make profit out of rail service. In Japan, besides JR East, almost all other JR operators hardly make any profit.

Really?? I just looked at some of the JR groups financial performance, JR Central made USD $1 billion after tax, whilst JR West posted USD $397 Million for 2006. Japan has numerous private operators, some companies going back to the 1900's (albeit they're commuter networks). On all fronts for JR group, they seem to be getting more efficient after privatization, posting an ever increasingly larger number of passengers traveled per employee. Apparently prior to the JR group, government owned Japanese National Railways was mired in debt, financial trouble.

There are quite a few countries where privatization has led to greater efficiencies, in the Netherlands I am told that private railways are doing wonders for their network, the train track lines are shared amongst the operators.

Put that aside, I believe YTL and KTM could work some business model to make sure a real win-win situation. These two organization could pool their capital together to fund the Seremban-Singapore double tracking project and eventually share the track for their services.

Exactly, pool their resources for joint track ownership perhaps?

With a 160 kph train service, travelling to Singapore would take around 2-1/2 hr - one extra hour than what it could have been with a Shinkansen service. But what is the difference considering the amount of saving on the capital investment. :)

I agree, huge savings on capital expenditure, which hopefully would be passed down to passengers. The 2 and a half hours is about the time it takes from me to fly down from KL, driving to KLIA, checking in, queuing up, walking to the satellite terminal, being stuck at the gate, waiting to board, waiting for bags at Changi. The train is a great alternative.

Really?? I just looked at some of the JR groups financial performance, JR Central made USD $1 billion after tax, whilst JR West posted USD $397 Million for 2006. Japan has numerous private operators, some companies going back to the 1900's (albeit they're commuter networks). On all fronts for JR group, they seem to be getting more efficient after privatization, posting an ever increasingly larger number of passengers traveled per employee. Apparently prior to the JR group, government owned Japanese National Railways was mired in debt, financial trouble.

Lately JR operators in Honshu are going quite well. But the same can't be said for other JRs. Special fund was set up few years back to support operating cost and huge infrastructure of JR Shikoku, Kyushu and Hokkaido.


Exactly, pool their resources for joint track ownership perhaps?

May be there is a reason behind it which is unknown to the public. KTM do operator freight and commuter service. Uncertainty in this service may lead to "not-so-reliable" long-haul passenger service, something that private investor would like to avoid. May be that could be the reason why YTL wants to have an independent rail system from KTM.

Interesting to note that KTM has undertaken several feasibility study to expand its rail network. Following is an excerpt pasted from KTM website:

-------------
With the aim to increase the capability of the railway infrastructure to cope with the anticipated expansion of services in the future, feasibility studies have been proposed to the Government for the following:

1) Serendah – Pelabuhan Klang – Seremban Bypass Line,
2) Rail Link to Proton City (Behrang 2020) and Perodua Plant, Serendah;
3) Tampin – Melaka Rail Link;
4) Mentakab – Kuantan Rail Link;
5) Commuter Service to Gombak/Selayang and Pulau Indah;
6) Commuter Service Pasir Gudang – Tanjung Pelepas; and
7) Development of New Workshop and Yard at Kempas Baru.

The Government has identified and short-listed several consultant firms to carry out the above feasibility studies. Technical and Commercial Negotiations with the consultants were finalised on 17 October 2005 and respective recommendations have been submitted to the Government. The studies are expected to commence by early 2006.

----------

No 1 is really interesting. This new line (if it gets built) will free-up the current track from freight service, so that it can exclusively be used for commuter and KL-Ipoh high speed service. This would add higher efficiency in these services.

No 4 most probably be the first stretch of KL-Kuantan connection.

Very interesting about the rail links and the plans KTM has got in place....KTM Komuter definitely needs better service throughout the Klang Valley...I still dont understand the logic of extending Komuter services to Rasa and Tg. Malim...why not use the new/refurb trains to have higher frequencies between Rawang and Seremban?

A rail bypass for freights is a good idea and very useful...I also wonder if the subang airport sub can be extended north to serve Tropicana and Damansaral? Or west to Shah Alam and North Klang? Or both...two tracks and electrification for both?

Hmmm...in that case will KL Sentral be able to handle the passenger loads? Perhaps it would be time to reexamine Kuala Lumpur station?

My take on the High speed to Singapore...is that it will create great challenges...

In the short and medium term, a link between KL and JB will probably have the greatest benefits.

High Speed to Singapore will:

*Affect passenger numbers for MAS, Singapore, and even Air Asia
*Affect passenger numbers for executive bus service (like Aero Line)
*Require a new link between Singapore and Malaysia
*Require two types of power pickup (Singapore doesnt like the overhead wires for the pantograph) which will increase costs
*Require changes to Customs and Immigration practices, increasing costs at the checkpoints

High Speed to JB will:
*maintain passenger numbers for MAS and Singapore Airlines
*have a competitive impact on Air Asia passengers
*reduce demand for some intercity bus services (but not all)
*increase demand for cross-border bus services between Singapore and Malaysia
*increase economic development in JB (spinoff from the bus services, terminals, developments)
*be able to maintain the same existing links

What do you think about this?

Cheers, m

I still dont understand the logic of extending Komuter services to Rasa and Tg. Malim...why not use the new/refurb trains to have higher frequencies between Rawang and Seremban?


Yes, me either. This would cause a longer travelling time for the trains to make return journey back to KL, assuming no addition in number of train. Then again, may be Tg Malim-KL service is not a regular one. Perhaps, once in an hour. That could work.


My take on the High speed to Singapore...is that it will create great challenges...

In the short and medium term, a link between KL and JB will probably have the greatest benefits.


You got all the points right. Connectivity between JB and Singapore can be made through a simple integration between JB monorail and SMRT. Or upgrade the KTM track within Singapore to run a frequent commuter service, like in Klang Valley.

The only reason that I could think of right now that preventing this from taken place is the early anticipation to demolish the current causeway. So, this connection must be designed wisely so that any decision made at later days will not affect this insfrastructure that cost millions to build.

a very smart idea....:okay: i am more toward to this proposal:yes:
Very interesting about the rail links and the plans KTM has got in place....KTM Komuter definitely needs better service throughout the Klang Valley...I still dont understand the logic of extending Komuter services to Rasa and Tg. Malim...why not use the new/refurb trains to have higher frequencies between Rawang and Seremban?

A rail bypass for freights is a good idea and very useful...I also wonder if the subang airport sub can be extended north to serve Tropicana and Damansaral? Or west to Shah Alam and North Klang? Or both...two tracks and electrification for both?

Hmmm...in that case will KL Sentral be able to handle the passenger loads? Perhaps it would be time to reexamine Kuala Lumpur station?

My take on the High speed to Singapore...is that it will create great challenges...

In the short and medium term, a link between KL and JB will probably have the greatest benefits.

High Speed to Singapore will:

*Affect passenger numbers for MAS, Singapore, and even Air Asia
*Affect passenger numbers for executive bus service (like Aero Line)
*Require a new link between Singapore and Malaysia
*Require two types of power pickup (Singapore doesnt like the overhead wires for the pantograph) which will increase costs
*Require changes to Customs and Immigration practices, increasing costs at the checkpoints

High Speed to JB will:
*maintain passenger numbers for MAS and Singapore Airlines
*have a competitive impact on Air Asia passengers
*reduce demand for some intercity bus services (but not all)
*increase demand for cross-border bus services between Singapore and Malaysia
*increase economic development in JB (spinoff from the bus services, terminals, developments)
*be able to maintain the same existing links

What do you think about this?

Cheers, m

I am for having commuter services running alongside express trains. However, to go west to Malacca then east to Seremban then back west again to KL will mean a longer distance to travel.

I'd prefer trains to go to Malacca and Port Dickson, which scores higher on the tourism factor, before going on the east on KLIA with a stop at Sepang Circuit, then connecting to Salak Tinggi and up Putrajaya to KL Sentral. Such a route will be predominantly by the coast, and hopefully the alignment can be kept as unwinding as possible so that the train can travel at the maximum speed possible, before slowing down to 160kph or 200kph along the Putrajaya stretch (due to the curving nature of the route).

Very interesting about the rail links and the plans KTM has got in place....KTM Komuter definitely needs better service throughout the Klang Valley...I still dont understand the logic of extending Komuter services to Rasa and Tg. Malim...why not use the new/refurb trains to have higher frequencies between Rawang and Seremban?

A rail bypass for freights is a good idea and very useful...I also wonder if the subang airport sub can be extended north to serve Tropicana and Damansaral? Or west to Shah Alam and North Klang? Or both...two tracks and electrification for both?

Hmmm...in that case will KL Sentral be able to handle the passenger loads? Perhaps it would be time to reexamine Kuala Lumpur station?

My take on the High speed to Singapore...is that it will create great challenges...

In the short and medium term, a link between KL and JB will probably have the greatest benefits.

High Speed to Singapore will:

*Affect passenger numbers for MAS, Singapore, and even Air Asia
*Affect passenger numbers for executive bus service (like Aero Line)
*Require a new link between Singapore and Malaysia
*Require two types of power pickup (Singapore doesnt like the overhead wires for the pantograph) which will increase costs
*Require changes to Customs and Immigration practices, increasing costs at the checkpoints

High Speed to JB will:
*maintain passenger numbers for MAS and Singapore Airlines
*have a competitive impact on Air Asia passengers
*reduce demand for some intercity bus services (but not all)
*increase demand for cross-border bus services between Singapore and Malaysia
*increase economic development in JB (spinoff from the bus services, terminals, developments)
*be able to maintain the same existing links

What do you think about this?

Cheers, m

agreed. the problem with the JHB-SIN stretch is that it is not long enough to accelerate enough to high speeds, and it is likely trains have to stop and passengers will have to disembark at JB Sentral for customs check anyway.

in that case, letting pax from Singapore make use of existing facilities to get to the JB customs (by SJE, CW, 160/170) and clear it, then making their way down to the basement to take the high speed train. it is a possibility that could save a bulk of the costs involved in paving the rail line into Singapore, whether it is due to the land, govt or overhead cable issue, yet prepare it for such future extension.

I am for having commuter services running alongside express trains. However, to go west to Malacca then east to Seremban then back west again to KL will mean a longer distance to travel.

I'd prefer trains to go to Malacca and Port Dickson, which scores higher on the tourism factor, before going on the east on KLIA with a stop at Sepang Circuit, then connecting to Salak Tinggi and up Putrajaya to KL Sentral. Such a route will be predominantly by the coast, and hopefully the alignment can be kept as unwinding as possible so that the train can travel at the maximum speed possible, before slowing down to 160kph or 200kph along the Putrajaya stretch (due to the curving nature of the route).

Agree. Most Singaporean visit Malacca and PD. I dunno about Seremban, but I think not many Singaporean visit the town. However by connecting malacca and seremban, it will definitely spur growth between the 2 cities

How long would it take travel by MRT and Bus from Singapore financial centre or Downtown to Johor Bahru?

How long would it take travel by MRT and Bus from Singapore financial centre or Downtown to Johor Bahru?

An hour on the MRT and half an hour to the Singapore checkpoint, and add another hour to get across the causeway on the buses and to clear Malaysian customs. No less than 2 hours is my guess.

If there were a direct MRT service from Kranji Station to Johor Bahru Sentral (including passing through customs), my guess would be that it would take 1.5 hours. Since train services are frequent, predictable and not affected by road traffic, a shaving of 30 mins is indeed possible. The only limitation is that customs can only be cleared in that amount of time and travelling from the Singapore CBD to Kranji Station does take time on a metro system.

If it were a direct train service from Tanjong Pagar Station or so to Johor Bahru Sentral, it would take perhaps 45 mins or less.

My estimates.

An hour on the MRT and half an hour to the Singapore checkpoint, and add another hour to get across the causeway on the buses and to clear Malaysian customs. No less than 2 hours is my guess.

Clearing the Malaysian/Singaporean checkpoints with a bus is sometimes quicker than traveling with a Car. The checks on cars are a lot more stringent but this actually depends on the actual causeway crossing not being blocked up. The bus service is weird, you pay the same numerical amount in RM from Larkin JB as you do in SGD from downtown Singapore, it doesn't factor the exchange rate. I've done the crossing in less than half an hour, it took me about 15 mins from Larkin JB to Woodlands SAS.

If there were a direct MRT service from Kranji Station to Johor Bahru Sentral (including passing through customs), my guess would be that it would take 1.5 hours. Since train services are frequent, predictable and not affected by road traffic, a shaving of 30 mins is indeed possible. The only limitation is that customs can only be cleared in that amount of time and travelling from the Singapore CBD to Kranji Station does take time on a metro system.

I think this would be ideal, or maybe perhaps even JB maglev monorail running to Kranji MRT in a sort of interchange setup. Afterall doesn't SMRT have a stake in the JB maglev monorail project, or am I mistaken? Either way some sort of interchange with Malaysian and Singaporean public transport would be great.

If it were a direct train service from Tanjong Pagar Station or so to Johor Bahru Sentral, it would take perhaps 45 mins or less.

My estimates.

Isn't there already a train that goes from Tanjong Pagar to JB, this being the KTM service? It has to stop at Woodlands for Singaporean CIQ checkpoint, so I guess its not exactly "direct". It doesn't take 45 mins however, the stop at woodlands is quite time consuming. Its always a little weird traveling by train from Singapore, you clear Malaysian CIQ at Tanjong Pagar station, which is practically inside the Singapore city itself, then you clear Singaporean CIQ at Woodlands. So in the passports and on a technicality, one enters Malaysia about an hour before actually leaving Singapore, a strange experience if you think about it. Arriving in JB via train from Singapore there is no Malaysia CIQ checkpoint.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Welcome_sign_at_Tanjong_Pagar.jpg
The Sign at Tanjong Pagar station in Singapore, practically in Singapore CBD and town, the sign has been removed only a couple of years ago.

No SMRT does not have a stake in JB's train project. In fact a Malaysian minister even said that there is no reason why SMRT should teach them how to build a maglev system since they do not operate maglev systems in Singapore, let alone letting SMRT have a stake in JB's monorail.

My timings were just estimates from past experiences and personal estimates...

Yeah KTM has that service but I never really thought of it as an option, since its much more comfortable by MRT and then the bus to JB, and more frequent.

No SMRT does not have a stake in JB's train project. In fact a Malaysian minister even said that there is no reason why SMRT should teach them how to build a maglev system since they do not operate maglev systems in Singapore, let alone letting SMRT have a stake in JB's monorail.

Ohh, my bad, but I could have sworn I read something about it. Is this my imagination, or was there anything along these lines? Sometimes Malaysian ministers can say some pretty awful things, personally I think SMRT can imprint a lot of its experience to the Malaysian public transport systems, or purposed systems like JB maglev. Your MRTs function a lot better than any of our relatively new LRT systems, they are less prone to breakdowns, less congested, highly efficient, cleaner, all this despite its older age and long running service. Sigh, how Malaysian pride can sometimes get in the way of things.

My timings were just estimates from past experiences and personal estimates...

I haven't lived in Singapore since 2002 (I traveled up to KL frequently from SG), so my experience with the service was from 5 years ago! perhaps times have changed and your experiences are a lot more relevant. :)

I did however use the train service last about 2 years ago whilst on holiday to Malaysia, flew into Changi then took the train. KTM service was still mediocre as ever, in fact I got delayed for over an hour in Melaka. But at least with the KTM, I didn't have to deal with lugging my baggage on the MRT, travel to Kranji then on to the Woodlands CIQ, then hop on a bus, then clear Malaysian CIQ, then hop on another bus. It's for the convenience. The MRT way would be better if I didn't have heavy luggage, or if I intended to cross to JB for a day trip / commute, simply because the KTM trains are slow. (A good way to measure was if some timed the journey and compared the 2)

Yeah KTM has that service but I never really thought of it as an option, since its much more comfortable by MRT and then the bus to JB, and more frequent.

I think its an option because of the convenience factor, if someone didn't want to be hassled with the interchange and transit between transport systems. Basically once you get on the train in Singapore, you can get off at JB, albeit the annoying Woodlands stop. The only problem to the service is lack of frequency and the lengthy journey time.

Ohh, my bad, but I could have sworn I read something about it. Is this my imagination, or was there anything along these lines? Sometimes Malaysian ministers can say some pretty awful things, personally I think SMRT can imprint a lot of its experience to the Malaysian public transport systems, or purposed systems like JB maglev. Your MRTs function a lot better than any of our relatively new LRT systems, they are less prone to breakdowns, less congested, highly efficient, cleaner, all this despite its older age and long running service. Sigh, how Malaysian pride can sometimes get in the way of things.



I haven't lived in Singapore since 2002 (I traveled up to KL frequently from SG), so my experience with the service was from 5 years ago! perhaps times have changed and your experiences are a lot more relevant. :)

I did however use the train service last about 2 years ago whilst on holiday to Malaysia, flew into Changi then took the train. KTM service was still mediocre as ever, in fact I got delayed for over an hour in Melaka. But at least with the KTM, I didn't have to deal with lugging my baggage on the MRT, travel to Kranji then on to the Woodlands CIQ, then hop on a bus, then clear Malaysian CIQ, then hop on another bus. It's for the convenience. The MRT way would be better if I didn't have heavy luggage, or if I intended to cross to JB for a day trip / commute, simply because the KTM trains are slow. (A good way to measure was if some timed the journey and compared the 2)



I think its an option because of the convenience factor, if someone didn't want to be hassled with the interchange and transit between transport systems. Basically once you get on the train in Singapore, you can get off at JB, albeit the annoying Woodlands stop. The only problem to the service is lack of frequency and the lengthy journey time.

Dont take my word completely for the travel time and SMRT JB Monorail stake issue. Thats just either from my personal experience (which dont number that much since I do not travel to and fro frequently, owing largely to the inconvenience) or from what I could vaguely remember.

Theres no word on the JB Monorail project, its start date rolling stock etc so I dont expect any word on whether SMRT will help out and integrate its system into JB's system as well.

I think its an option because of the convenience factor, if someone didn't want to be hassled with the interchange and transit between transport systems. Basically once you get on the train in Singapore, you can get off at JB, albeit the annoying Woodlands stop. The only problem to the service is lack of frequency and the lengthy journey time.My first trip to Singapore I didnt know how to get around, and I didnt want to reboard the train...

I asked a guard and he said it was ok to leave. Taxis at Woodlands CIQ were packed. I ended up taking a bus west, then got off near the MRT line.

I do not think that this hsl will be an airport-airport linkup, although that is what is being suggested in the media.

More likely there may be indirect links...as there is an MRT line planned for the north of Singapore...that would connect to/near to the Changi...and because it seems the HSL will probably use the same trackage as the KLIA express...but that will be the end of it.

*New platforms (probably) at the east end the KLIA ekspres tracks.
*New rail route along the west coast of Pen Malaysia connecting through PD and Malacca (remember the west coast highway plan? lots of room for a rail line....
*link to Singapore? Dunno where or how....or how much it will cost.

First phase -> KL - JB
2nd phase -> JB-Singapore

Cheers, m

I do not think that this hsl will be an airport-airport linkup, although that is what is being suggested in the media.



Is that right? Is that what been said in the local media? Interesting concept.

Is that right? Is that what been said in the local media? Interesting concept.seems the media has stuck to the theme of KL-Singapore...

but since there isnt enough specific info, and they know that YTL runs the airport expressway and they want to extend it...and YTL is behind the proposal...and YTL have claimed that they want to get the airlines involved in the project....and some reports have suggested a planned stop at KLIA ... there has been some quiet media speculation about this project being more about linking KLIA to Changi than KL to Singapore...but it's all speculation.

Cheers, m

just dont understand why so many people against the idea of direct link between kl and sg. whay should the train terminate at jb? isnt that the idea of bullet train is to connect the 2 asean big city in the most convnience and fastest way? if the train terminate at jb, imagine those want go to kl by bullet train, they have to take mrt to kraji or 170, clear woodlands checkpoint, take 170 again, cross the causeway, clear jb checkpoint then go to jb sentral to take the train, that easily take 1 to 2 hours before can board the bullet train to kl. so what the point of taking bullet train to kl when wasted 2 hours before board the train? isnt that good idea if u want go to jb, alight at jb and those want go to sg alight at tanjung pagar?

most of the people in jb drive, how many people will paying rm100++ per person or 500++ with wife and 2 kids go to kl by train? but for those go to kl or sg, if the travel time is less than 2 hours, that will bring a lot of tourist and business to both sides. should look at the bigger picture and dont just talk about the nationalism n politics. i m not agaist the train stoping at jb, just not agree that the train should terminate at jb. that why they should hav kl-sg express and kl-sg transit. dont make the bullet train as a politics tools or protect certain business.

for jb maglev train in jb, i just want to say award the contract to some1 with no name, no experience, no tract record, but with "hightec maglev dream" and good "politics connection" will make a surprise for all at the end.

cheers

My first trip to Singapore I didnt know how to get around, and I didnt want to reboard the train...

I asked a guard and he said it was ok to leave. Taxis at Woodlands CIQ were packed. I ended up taking a bus west, then got off near the MRT line.

I do not think that this hsl will be an airport-airport linkup, although that is what is being suggested in the media.Cheers, m

the next time u are going in that direction (to Singapore) and want to get on the MRT, get off at Johor Bahru, clear customs and take either bus 160 or 170. they will bring u to Kranji MRT. u can take any of the buses from JB Chkpt to Woodlands Chkpt, but from there it's best to take 160 or 170 (blue plate) to Kranji MRT. :)

the next time u are going in that direction (to Singapore) and want to get on the MRT, get off at Johor Bahru, clear customs and take either bus 160 or 170. they will bring u to Kranji MRT. u can take any of the buses from JB Chkpt to Woodlands Chkpt, but from there it's best to take 160 or 170 (blue plate) to Kranji MRT. :)thanks for the info.

These days Im busing it, First Coach from Bangsar LRT to Novena MRT, via the 2nd link.

Total time is about 5 hours including a 20 minute rest stop and the time at the border.

Cheers, m

Singapore open to proposals on bullet train between KL and S'pore
By Farah Abdul Rahim, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 16 January 2007 1648 hrs


Photos 1 of 1

Raymond Lim (file picture)



SINGAPORE: Singapore has said it is open to proposals on a US$2.3b plan to build a bullet train rail link between Singapore and the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur as long as both countries benefit.

Transport Minister Raymond Lim was responding to questions from reporters earlier on Tuesday, at the Annual Airport Reception.

His Malaysian counterpart, Chan Kong Choy, had backed the high-speed rail project by YTL Corp on Monday, which will enable the 350-kilometre journey between KL and Singapore to be cut to just 90 minutes, compared to the seven- hour journey on the current rail service.

However, Singapore has yet to hear from YTL or the Malaysian government on this so far.

"We are open to all proposals that may benefit both countries (Singapore and Malaysia). I look forward to receiving their proposal so that we can study it and see how best to proceed," said Raymond Lim, Singapore Transport Minister.

On liberalising air services between the two countries, Mr Lim added that Singapore's Transport Ministry is now in contact with their counterparts in Malaysia to finalise the date for bilateral talks on the issue.

The talks are scheduled to take place in the first quarter of this year. - CNA/dt

Malaysia and Singapore will hold a talk about opening budget route beween KL and Changi, and now there is a bullet train proposal... Do you think we really need bullet train ?

Taiwanese airliners already facing huge loss due to the inauguration of Taiwan Bullet Train, many domestic routes e.g. Taipei Sungshan- Taichung, Taipei-Tainan, Taipei-Chiayi, Taipei- Kaohsiung lose 60 to 70% of the traffic with Mandarin Airlines already planned to suspend TPE-Taichung from its map..

Malaysia and Singapore will hold a talk about opening budget route beween KL and Changi, and now there is a bullet train proposal... Do you think we really need bullet train ?

Taiwanese airliners already facing huge loss due to the inauguration of Taiwan Bullet Train, many domestic routes e.g. Taipei Sungshan- Taichung, Taipei-Tainan, Taipei-Chiayi, Taipei- Kaohsiung lose 60 to 70% of the traffic with Mandarin Airlines already planned to suspend TPE-Taichung from its map..


You can't compare apples and oranges. The traffic between Sg and KL are much higher than those Taiwanese routes you've mentioned.

Even with frequent (and comfy) buses, it is still insufficient. Our current expensive and restrictive air services between the 2 cities are the 4th busiest in the world.

Why people prefer rail? Well rail connectivity is still the best in terms of city centre to city centre connectivity. That is something air services can't do. Changi isn't exactly near and KLIA is kinda far from KL.

Even with Ryanair and Easyjet, there are still train services in Europe. Air just can't replace land transport....at least not in the near future ;)

The traffic between Sg and KL are much higher than those Taiwanese routes you've mentioned.


Compare:

KL- Singapore --> 9 flights a day on B777, 737, 330
Taipei- Kaohsiung --> More than 20 flights a day on A320 mostly


Even with frequent (and comfy) buses, it is still insufficient. Our current expensive and restrictive air services between the 2 cities are the 4th busiest in the world.



World's busiest air routes, AFAIK :

1) Tokyo- Sapporo --50/day
2) Madrid- Barcelona --50/day
3) Tokyo- Fukuoka --50/day
4) London-Dublin --40 /day
5) Taipei-Hong Kong --40/day
6) Guarulhos- Rio --40/day

KL-Singapore is still far from reaching that :(


Even with frequent (and comfy) buses, it is still insufficient.

There are only few buses servicing KL-Singapore

Even with Ryanair and Easyjet, there are still train services in Europe. Air just can't replace land transport....at least not in the near future


Because EU is already a highly-developed region where per-capita income for 400 million+ of its population is $ 28 000 + compared to combination of SG+ MY which is only about $ 14 000+

Compare:

KL- Singapore --> 9 flights a day on B777, 737, 330
Taipei- Kaohsiung --> More than 20 flights a day on A320 mostly

My dear Royal Highness.......I am talking about ALL MODES of transportation and not just air flights. READ CAREFULLY!




World's busiest air routes, AFAIK :

1) Tokyo- Sapporo --50/day
2) Madrid- Barcelona --50/day
3) Tokyo- Fukuoka --50/day
4) London-Dublin --40 /day
5) Taipei-Hong Kong --40/day
6) Guarulhos- Rio --40/day

KL-Singapore is still far from reaching that :(



My bad......the 4th busiest route is INTERNATIONAL flights between 2 cities. It was discussed in another thread about a year back. However my data could be outdated. ;)

Your 9 flights a day seems to be innacurate. SIA and MAS operate 182 (at around 80 - 90% of their capacity) of the 213 flights a week between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur.

That works out to be 30 flights a day :yes: It is a duapoly so it means that they evenly splits the 30 flights :yes:






There are only few buses servicing KL-Singapore

Dun make a fool of yourself by saying such rubbish..........You better make your way to Puduraya sometime and check this out for yourself. I am a frequent Sg-KL traveller and I've booked many bus tickets before. There are at least 1 bus leaving KL to Singapore every half an hour. During holidays and certain long weekends, the frequency increases. I've personally seen a 15mins frequency before! If that is not a lot then what else? :D



Because EU is already a highly-developed region where per-capita income for 400 million+ of its population is $ 28 000 + compared to combination of SG+ MY which is only about $ 14 000+

Land transport should be cheaper. And I am talking about low-cost airline as well. So I do not see what it had gotta do with per capita income. :ohno:

Oopps.. my mistake.:bash: :bash: . it was not updated data... youre right szehoong.. roughly about 15 to 17 a day between KUL and SIN ! Today ( Feb 6 there are 17 ! ) http://www.innovata-llc.com/kul/default.asp

As for bus I checked only Transnasional .. hihihi... how come bus companies in Malaysia do not have their own website ???

Go go Bullet train !:banana:

Some of the other buses running the SIN-KUL route are Aeroline and First Coach....

Some of the other buses running the SIN-KUL route are Aeroline and First Coach....



There are quite a lot actually ;)

Some of the notable ones apart from those mentioned like First Coach (http://www.firstcoach.com.my), Aeroline (http://www.aeroline.com.my) and Transnational are:

- MARA Executive Coach (now changed name to Transnational Executive Coach)
- Nice (http://www.plusliner.com.my)
- Transtar (http://www.transtar.com.sg)
- Causeway Link (yes...they do have Sg-KL buses as well)
- Konsortium (http://www.kbes.com.my)
- Airebus (http://www.airebus.net)

and hosts of smaller operators.


Skyprince > Nearly all the large operators of buses to Singapore have websites. It just take a bit of travel knowledge and Googling.

:lol: I must say some of this buses are really comfortable even more so than a plane ride!!!.5 hrs ride door to door its ok enough for me

:lol: I must say some of this buses are really comfortable even more so than a plane ride!!!.5 hrs ride door to door its ok enough for me


Yup....here's some pictures of the Konsortium bus I took last year:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3234sm.jpg



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3237sm.jpg



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3242sm.jpg

There are quite a lot actually ;)

- Causeway Link (yes...they do have Sg-KL buses as well)


here's the link http://www.handalindah.com.my/ :yes:

i took their buses from KL to JB before, wasn't really impressed. :(

:lol: I must say some of this buses are really comfortable even more so than a plane ride!!!.5 hrs ride door to door its ok enough for me

I agree. 5 hours of pure comfort in a wide cushy chair with lots of leg room and a big tv and nice scenery, somewhat cheap too, is lots better than a cramped up budget flight if i have time on my side.

All we need is a nice modern bus terminal in Singapore and KL, and more upgrades to the buses to make it look less cheesy... That way the image of commuting by bus would definitely be improved and bus services could prove a serious competitor to budget airlines.

Yup....here's some pictures of the Konsortium bus I took last year:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3234sm.jpg



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3237sm.jpg



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/szehoong/Singapore%20-%2012th%20and%2013th%20Feb%202006/IMG_3242sm.jpg


holyshit!!! how much is the fare. looks too cosy for a bus!!!

^^ OMG!!!!i was so stupid for using KTM instead of bus. travel with KTM was a nightmare!!

my suggestion for KTM:

1.sell KTM to another high profile high reputation company(foreigners are welcome)
2.turn KTM old station as a 5 star hotel like the Raffles Hotel.
3.keep the name-KTM-keretapi tanah melayu/malayan railway(DAP once raised an issue on 'tanah melayu')

holyshit!!! how much is the fare. looks too cosy for a bus!!!

I remember it cost me about RM55 for a single trip........I hope it is still the same :D

Thats cheaplah try Transtar more like 80 ringgit!12 inch lcd personal screen,
kerusi urut , lunch or breakfast i think its a deal then having to drive to singapore!!!

Getting on the bullet train to KL
Friday • February 9, 2007

Leong Wee Keat
weekeat@mediacorp.com.sg

THE people behind the operating systems of the North-East and Circle MRT lines want to be the driving force behind the proposed bullet train rail linking Singapore and Kuala Lumpur.

Mr Philippe Mellier, president of Alstom Transport, said yesterday his company was "very interested" in developing the bullet train, which would cut normal rail travel time from the current seven hours or so to just 90 minutes. He pointed to Alstom's experience in the Asia Pacific region — which includes building Korea's KTX high-speed train connecting Seoul and Pusan — as an advantage for the French company.

"We are by far the biggest manufacturer of high-speed trains in the world," Mr Mellier said.

"We know the region, we know the requirements and we have experience in exporting our technology far from home."

Alstom Transport occupies the No 2 market position in urban rail transport and has an annual turnover of €5.1 billion ($10.2 billion). A consortium led by Malaysian company YTL Corp is the only party that has presented a proposal for a bullet train service between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Preliminary studies showed the US$2.3-billion ($3.5-billion) project is feasible but the Malaysian government has not made any decision. Last month, Singapore's Transport Minister Raymond Lim indicated he was open to the proposal if it benefits both countries.

Mr Mellier, who was here for a Metro workshop, said conditions are "ideal" for the construction of a high-speed rail system between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur.

Millions of people live in and could commute between the two cities, he said, envisioning a train that would travel at about 350kmh — giving air travel a run for its money.

Asked about Singapore's public transport, Mr Mellier suggested building a tram system around Orchard Road and the Central Business District. Though it would involve a bigger start-up investment, he said, a tram system could carry three times the capacity of buses while conserving a quarter of the energy.

http://www.todayonline.com/pda/170937ag.htm

Asked about Singapore's public transport, Mr Mellier suggested building a tram system around Orchard Road and the Central Business District. Though it would involve a bigger start-up investment, he said, a tram system could carry three times the capacity of buses while conserving a quarter of the energy.

http://www.todayonline.com/pda/170937ag.htmWow, what a progressive idea...of course, I dunno how the government will react, as they dont like the overhead wires........

Hmmm..Singapore's buses are reaching saturation point, just like HK is. There are so many buses providing direct service around the city or to the city because it is a cheaper alternative to the MRT.....

Tram services and ROW in Singapore on the main roads...would really increase capacity and speed up movement of passengers....and since their one-way streets are usually complemented by another one way in the opposing direction...then it's not such a bad thing to take out one lane completely for bus/tram use.

Cheers, m

Wow, what a progressive idea...of course, I dunno how the government will react, as they dont like the overhead wires........

Hmmm..Singapore's buses are reaching saturation point, just like HK is. There are so many buses providing direct service around the city or to the city because it is a cheaper alternative to the MRT.....

Tram services and ROW in Singapore on the main roads...would really increase capacity and speed up movement of passengers....and since their one-way streets are usually complemented by another one way in the opposing direction...then it's not such a bad thing to take out one lane completely for bus/tram use.

Cheers, m
my take on this is that they will eventually allow overhead wires, in view of the cost factor.

if u have been to keppel viaduct in singapore, which is the first viaduct ever built in that manner in the early 80s, u'll find the areas underneath it gloomy. the same conclusion was also derived from the macritchie flyover, which cast a shadow on mount alvernia hospital.

this fact resulted in the transport authorities not opting for viaduct when they built the central expressway extension in the late 80s but instead to choose tunnels, especially since the expressway runs behind the istana. this meant more costs and longer construction times.

however, recently viaducts built on-top of existing arterial roads have came back in a huge way, in the process "upgrading" them to semi-expressways. apparently this has to be the way forward to ease congestion and speed up travel times, cos building so many tunnels around no longer seemed practical.

in the same way, to build a tunnel just for this line all the way to city will not materialise based on the costs required, which I estimate at US$1b including a terminal station. (building the 20-km fully-underground NEL with 16 stations cost US$3b.)

as for overhead cables in underground tunnels, this will not be a problem for alstom since NEL and upcoming CCL are using this concept.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7296/dsc0054jw1.jpg

as for tram services running alongside vehicles, it is still early days. the govt are somewhat no open to 'hybrid' systems like this. :(

my take on this is that they will eventually allow overhead wires, in view of the cost factor.

if u have been to keppel viaduct in singapore, which is the first viaduct ever built in that manner in the early 80s, u'll find the areas underneath it gloomy. the same conclusion was also derived from the macritchie flyover, which cast a shadow on mount alvernia hospital.

this fact resulted in the transport authorities not opting for viaduct when they built the central expressway extension in the late 80s but instead to choose tunnels, especially since the expressway runs behind the istana. this meant more costs and longer construction times.

however, recently viaducts built on-top of existing arterial roads have came back in a huge way, in the process "upgrading" them to semi-expressways. apparently this has to be the way forward to ease congestion and speed up travel times, cos building so many tunnels around no longer seemed practical.

in the same way, to build a tunnel just for this line all the way to city will not materialise based on the costs required, which I estimate at US$1b including a terminal station. (building the 20-km fully-underground NEL with 16 stations cost US$3b.)

as for overhead cables in underground tunnels, this will not be a problem for alstom since NEL and upcoming CCL are using this concept.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7296/dsc0054jw1.jpg

as for tram services running alongside vehicles, it is still early days. the govt are somewhat no open to 'hybrid' systems like this. :(

Off topic but the CCL's third rail actually.:)

Off topic but the CCL's third rail actually.:)

wait i check my sources again..... :(

EDIT: you're right... :runaway:

High-speed train is on the right track


March 23 2007


TALKS on the high-speed train project between Malaysia and Singapore should take place this year, Johor Menteri Besar Datuk Abdul Ghani Othman said.
“Let’s leave it to the governments of Malaysia and Singapore,” he told reporters after the opening of Invest Malaysia 2007 yesterday.

It was reported in January that the government supported YTL Corp Bhd’s US$2.3 billion (RM8.1 billion) plans for a bullet-train service from Kuala Lumpur to the republic, with Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy saying then that a study had shown the proposal to be feasible.

Property and utility firm YTL Corp Bhd has proposed to build and run the train between the two capitals, cutting the journey to 90 minutes from the present 7½ hours.

Ghani said the project would benefit south Johor.

“We have the Second Link and Causeway, but we should enhance the transportation links between Singapore, Johor and the rest of Malaysia. ” On the proposal for a theme park in Nusajaya, Ghani said it would be one of a kind, and “globally unique”.

“We have put aside more than 800 hectares of land, very much endowed with tropical access, rivers, mangroves ... it will be a thematic tropical setting.” Announcements on the project could be expected by year end.

Express rail talks to start this year
Updated : 23-03-2007
Media : The Star


KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia will start talks with Singapore on the high-speed express rail service to link the country to the island republic this year, Johor Mentri Besar Datuk Abdul Ghani Othman said.

'I think it should happen this year. We should enhance transportation links between Singapore and South Johor and Malaysia,” he told reporters at the Invest Malaysia Conference here yesterday.

He was asked whether talks on the proposed development were on-going between the two countries.

Transport Minister Chan Kong Choy had said on Nov 6 that the ministry was still studying YTL Corp's proposed development of a US$3bil rail link project between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

YTL, owner of the railway from KL International Airport in Sepang to the city, said it planned to take the rail unit public to raise between RM6bil and RM8bil to fund the project if it gets the concession for the line to Singapore.

YTL plans 2 high-speed rail projects this year

By Sharen Kaur
sharen@nstp.com.my


March 26 2007


YTL Corp Bhd, the country's largest builder and power group, will ride on its expertise and experience from its Express Rail Link (ERL) development, to execute two high-speed rail projects in Malaysia this year.



The two are the proposed private finance initiative bullet train project by YTL linking Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, which may cost more than RM8.1 billion to develop due to its technical and engineering aspects and environment protection plan, and the pending Sentul-Batu Caves high-speed rail project estimated to cost some RM550 million.


"The Government of Malaysia and Singapore have given the thumbs up for the bullet train project and YTL has started working out the design and track laying (DTL) plan, which will include a prototype design quite similar to bullet trains in Japan and Taiwan, to submit to the respective agencies for approval in the next four to six months," said a company official who declined to be named.


The official said the DTL plan is handled by experts who will also study details of environmental preservation and minimise as much as possible the relocation of people along the stretch.


"Feasibility studies are being carried out. The design will be very sleek and the building of structures will take time to complete to avoid going through grey areas.


"YTL plans to use the prototype of its ERL project and draw the expertise of Siemens AG, Europe's largest engineering company, for the bullet train project," the official said.


The official added that YTL and Siemens are expected to commence work on the project by year end, and the cut off time would be end-2009.


It is firmly believed that YTL is also planning to rope in Siemens, which has worked on several railway developments in Malaysia including the ERL project, as the civil and engineering contractor for the Sentul Batu Caves project.


YTL will work on the Sentul-Batu Caves project via its partly-owned unit, Sentul Raya Sdn Bhd, the developer of the Sentul West project.


The Finance Ministry had in 2005 given out letters of intent to Sentul Raya, Saujana Beta Development Sdn Bhd, a unit of Brunsfield Corp Sdn Bhd, and Golden Land Development Sdn Bhd, an infrastructure development company, to jointly work on the project.


"YTL is expected to work on the entire project after Saujana Beta and Golden Land could not agree on certain terms and conditions and the price structure," said a source familiar with railway development in the country.


When contacted, Saujana Beta and Golden Land said they are unaware of any plan by the Government to hand over the entire project to YTL.


YTL had also declined to comment, saying instead that it is not in their place to make any comments at this point.


"We are however going to confirm our plans for the expansion of the Sentul KTM Komuter station, which in the future will be an integrated themed train centre with retail, F&B outlets, offices and more," it said in an e-mail reply.


The Sentul-Batu Caves rail project involves the installation of a double-tracking system along a 7.5km stretch and electrification, signalling and communication works, upgrading of the Batu Caves station, building of three flyovers and two underpasses and fare collection.

finally..

M'sia-S'pore bullet train approved

Mar 26, 07 3:58pm

Malaysia and Singapore have approved construction of a bullet train linking the two countries, to be built by Malaysian conglomerate YTL Corporation, according to a report today.

The New Straits Times, citing an unnamed official from YTL, said the high-speed train would cost some RM8.1 billion and that design plans and studies were underway.

"The governments of Malaysia and Singapore have given the thumbs up for the bullet train project and YTL has started working out the design and track laying plan," the official was quoted as saying by the newspaper.

The plan "will include a prototype design quite similar to bullet trains in Japan and Taiwan, to submit to the respective agencies for approval in the next four to six months," the official said.

YTL Corp, which has property, utility and transport concerns, floated the proposal in July last year for the bullet train which will allow passengers to travel from Malaysia's capital Kuala Lumpur to Singapore in 90 minutes.

The official said YTL would be working off its prototype for the high-speed Express Rail Link (ERL) train from Kuala Lumpur to Malaysia's international airport, as well as working with Germany's Siemens AG.

YTL has a 50 percent stake in Express Rail Link.

Work to commence end 2007

"YTL plans to use the prototype of its ERL project and to draw the expertise of Siemens AG, Europe's largest engineering company, for the bullet train project," the official said.

YTL and Siemens are expected to commence work on the project by the end of 2007, with completion seen at end-2009, according to the newspaper.

YTL officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Currently, there is a rail service to Singapore but it takes about seven hours while flights between the countries are pricey.

Malaysia and Singapore are also linked by a causeway which is routinely subject to heavy traffic.

- AFP

great, but now i hope it will pass through Melaka.

Interesting news....so that means the high speed train set could be Siemens Velaro or Shinkansen 700T series is it?

Confirm? Syabas to Malaysia!!!

Wow....thats great.....high speed era finally....:D

Syabas to Malaysia!!!...

Cool !:banana:

Yes, no more KLIA, fly from SIN!!!

IF this is realized, we ll be in the league of advanced country since there r only a few countries can afford the service.

great news... yeah!!

I hope they oso link it to KK. :D:D

Underwater bullet train...nice oh!!!

Johore's MB Ghani Othman said 2 days ago...malaysian-singaporean gov. still on talk with this proposal....but then got approved a day later?...this is a super duper crazy FAST!!

hopefully this news can shut that noisy nanny's mouth....

^^ Who is the noisy nanny??:lol:

i think everybody knows her......:D
she's not around lately.......

I am wondering how will our train set would look like....

Siemens Velaro
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractor_images/siemens_transport4/siemens1.jpg

or this exported Shinkansen 700?

http://www.khi.co.jp/sharyo/topic_final/images/700t_kobe_may2004.jpg

i think everybody knows her......:D
she's not around lately.......

Say ler say ler!!! Who is tht...

Btw....wow...two oso I love!! Nissan...you so pandai in this bullet train thingies...

Interesting news....so that means the high speed train set could be Siemens Velaro or Shinkansen 700T series is it?

yea.....it would be the Shinkansen 700T if it were to go accordingly to the "prototype design quite similar to bullet trains in Japan and Taiwan" as quoted in the article. Reporters have made mistakes before so I dunno leh hehehe :D

However I have the feeling that they would use a design similar to Siemen's Velaro which currently Germany's ICE (InterCity Express) is using. That is because in various articles I've read (incl this one), YTL would collaborate with Siemens. Furthermore the current ERL uses Siemen trains as well so.......we'll see ;)

hey...why this news was not in BERNAMA?...not even in utusan?...pedang, u have to make sure about this!

The Velaro looks sleek...good bye North South Expressway..your contribution will forever in my memory god bless :)

nice project! benefit the economy and tourism economy for both country! is it under construction now?

Yes, no more KLIA, fly from SIN!!!

well many Singaporeans might want to fly from KLIA too. For example, flights to New York from KL are cheaper and that is before the special online offer.

Fuyoh! It has been approved? How come i didn't see it in the papers?

Awesome! awesome! can't wait to see it.

March 27, 2007 20:29 PM

Malaysia Govt Still Considering YTL Bullet Train Proposal


KUALA LUMPUR, March 27 (Bernama) -- The government is still considering the YTL Corp Bhd's RM8.1 billion proposal to build a high-speed rail project between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, said Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy today.

"The government has not made a final decision. We are still looking at the proposal," he told reporters after attending the MCA presidential council meeting here, Tuesday.

Chan, who is also MCA deputy president, was commenting on a news report that YTL would commence work on the project by year-end.

The report also said the proposed private finance initiative bullet train project was expected to be ready by end-2009.

Asked when the government was expected to make the decision, Chan said: "We don't want to set a time frame as the government has to thoroughly evaluate the project."

The report, which quoted a company official, also said the Malaysian and Singapore governments had given the thumbs-up for the project.

It said YTL has started work on the design and track laying (DTL) plan, which would include a prototype design quite similar to the bullet trains in Japan and Taiwan and would submit to the respective agencies for approval in the next four to six months.

The official also said the DTL plan was handled by experts who would also be studying details of environmental preservation and would involve minimal relocation of people along the stretch.

-- BERNAMA

^^ WHAT??? Not approved liao meh?? Why still din decide the final decision??

I think the reporter juz make fake report...

like a bonfire starting to rage suddenly a drizzle came and snuff out the fire...what a bummer

another example of feeling....Real Madrid on a verge of winning the match agaist its arch rival and it had to be that damn dwarf scored in injury time denying Real a victory...:bleep:

politicians and businessmans speak different language.....

WHAT THE....

i was just so excited a few munutes ago..

We r used to it. Paper talk with no result. Why r they waiting for? Get it approved first and talk later. Once it is approved, it is easier for ytl to get investors to pour in money.

I wonder why the news media can get unconfirmed information and most importantly... they did not clarify the news and report it to the public... this is such a joke...

Channel 5, Channel 8 and Channel U of Singapore did a big news announcement during their prime-time news... what a shame...

Since double tracking will proceed until Padang Besar,won't it be possible that gahmen will just continue this double tracking until JB.The double tracking until JB was planned earlier than the YTL proposal.

WHAT IS THAT JOKE.......NOT FUNNY AT ALLL....and it is still left few days to April 1:bash:

Ah ya kalau YTL bikin tak masuk ma!!

heart-broken !!! :ohno:

Sorry, but could somebody tell me when this project is going to finish? (Just wondering) and is there any delays or some sort?

King bob, this is not mahathir era. Badawi period is more time consuming. It hasn't started as you hv thought.

^^ some say hes a greedy man who lovs money.. true?

^^who?..Pak Lah?...who said that?Mahathir?

King bob, this is not mahathir era. Badawi period is more time consuming. It hasn't started as you hv thought.

if we want to build something...one has to study first, not just built bcoz we have money.....and not even built just to make yourself 'proud'.....when Mahathir in power..people always hentam him....than when Pak Lah time...also want to hentam(based on Mahathir accusitions) ke?:ohno:

Nope. I dont complained mahathir when he was in power. He executed projects in fast track time. Of course, detail study is needed but what's takes so long to think about it. We hv so many brains (talking about thousands employed every year) in the gomen, and you hv to wonder what r they hiring for?

Pfffff, LOL sorry. Im not so up to date since im not in malaysia.

Private Sector To Develop, Finance KL-S'pore Bullet Train
Updated : 28-03-2007
Media : Bernama


KUALA LUMPUR, March 28 (Bernama) -- The bullet train linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore is likely to be developed and financed by the private sector, said Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

The Deputy Prime Minister said the YTL Group which had proposed the project had to carry out the feasibility study and submit the findings to the government for consideration.

He said the Transport Ministry and YTL Group were asked by the Cabinet last week to discuss the ******** which included its feasibility and the capability of the company to finance it.

"This is a private initiative, so it is up to them (the company) to study the feasibility of the project for the government's consideration.

"I am not sure to what extent they (the company) need the government's support," he told reporters when asked on the status of the high-speed train project.

Earlier, Najib delivered a keynote address at the Global Islamic Finance Forum here.

In the Dewan Rakyat Tuesday, Johor Baharu Member of Parliament Datuk Shahrir Abdul Samad questioned the significance of the project and compared it to the Rawang-Ipoh double-track railway electrification project (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=149824).

Asked about the decision on the project, Najib said: "It depends on the feasibility study carried out by the private sector."

The high-speed train from KL Sentral to Singapore costing about RM8 billion which was proposed by YTL Corporation managing director Tan Sri Francis Yeoh would cut down travel to merely 90 minutes.

http://www.malaysia-maps.com/images/map-malaysia-main-states.gif

Hah?? The bullet train, doesn't pass Sg. Petani town la...