I love these old renderings and pics of would be downtown buildings. That Freedom Tower building and the current met 3 site buildings could have changed alot of whats happening today.

Love the Gonzo quote, lol. The new biography about him is supposed to be a good read, btw.

With the sales people at Met3 I wish anyone luck in getting a truly honest answer. I'm not knocking them but it's not as if they can tell someone "well, yeah...the project is having trouble and might not happen." Not if they want to keep their jobs, that is...:lol:

I have a couple of tricks up my sleeve! On my way, after I finish this last cup of coffee! :lol:

1,010 feet above Mean Sea Level (approx 1,000 feet above grade in the area), per approved county ordinance in cooperation with the FAA...


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7668/65404045xl8hk9.jpg

Thanx for answering my question, I appreciate it...,

I caught one of the hard hats as they were going on break! That was my plan, talk to the construction crew first, then the sales office. I was told construction would not start on Met3 until they finished Met2. He asked me why I wanted to know, and I said the buyers want to know. I did not tell a lie! Then, I asked what moving all the dirt around was about. He said the dirt was from the Met2 site. THEN, I went into the sales office. That is when I was told that construction would begin on Met3 in the first quarter of next year, so maybe that is when the construction crew laying the foundation for Met2 will free up.

I parked at the Earlington Heights Metrorail Station to avoid parking and traffic hassles, and taking Metrorail is a great way to study the new skyline. I took it all the way to Viscaya and back. Walking from the Government Center Metrorail Station to the Met3 site, I noticed that along with more depth and density, the skyline is getting a lot of interesting new vistas. For instance, standing on the northeast corner of the courthouse, you can catch Infinity 1 sticking out of the top of axis framed by Wind and Ivy. Then from the northeast corner of the Met3 site, Infinity I is framed right in the middle of 500 Brickell. In the opposite direction, you can catch Everglades on the Bay and the Biscayne Wall in-between other buildings. From the northewst corner of the Met3 site, Plaza on Brickell is right there at the end with 701 and 801 Brickell (home of Arquitectonica) in front of it. Already we're getting some impressive looking density.

Next time you go by, Quantum, ask them to stop lying.

With all the delays I'm starting to think the real question would be how many people have demanded their deposit back. Are they just supposed to wait forever? This project has slid into the "joke" category at this point.

That said, kudos to Quantum for at least trying to get a straight answer from those folks. You 'da man! :cheers:

Thanks Quantum for the update. Even though they've said the same stuff over and over again every quarter, atleast you went to bother them and enjoy the city lol.

Thanks Quantum for the update. Even though they've said the same stuff over and over again every quarter, atleast you went to bother them and enjoy the city lol.

I think the truth is in what the hard hat said. He said "We're not going to start on that one until we finish the other one!" He didn't say we're NOT going to be working on that one, so we shall see. :)

I caught one of the hard hats as they were going on break! That was my plan, talk to the construction crew first, then the sales office. I was told construction would not start on Met3 until they finished Met2. He asked me why I wanted to know, and I said the buyers want to know. I did not tell a lie! Then, I asked what moving all the dirt around was about. He said the dirt was from the Met2 site. THEN, I went into the sales office. That is when I was told that construction would begin on Met3 in the first quarter of next year, so maybe that is when the construction crew laying the foundation for Met2 will free up.

I parked at the Earlington Heights Metrorail Station to avoid parking and traffic hassles, and taking Metrorail is a great way to study the new skyline. I took it all the way to Viscaya and back. Walking from the Government Center Metrorail Station to the Met3 site, I noticed that along with more depth and density, the skyline is getting a lot of interesting new vistas. For instance, standing on the northeast corner of the courthouse, you can catch Infinity 1 sticking out of the top of axis framed by Wind and Ivy. Then from the northeast corner of the Met3 site, Infinity I is framed right in the middle of 500 Brickell. In the opposite direction, you can catch Everglades on the Bay and the Biscayne Wall in-between other buildings. From the southeast corner of the Met3 site, Plaza on Brickell is right there at the end with 701 and 801 Brickell (home of Arquitectonica) in front of it. Already we're getting some impressive looking density.


Well it makes sense, when Met 1 finished Met 2 started, maybe when Met 2 finishes they will start the next one Met 3!!!
One building at a time people! And then after Met 3 they might start on Met Square or w/e its called.:banana:

Well it makes sense, when Met 1 finished Met 2 started, maybe when Met 2 finishes they will start the next one Met 3!!!
yeah... so hopefully by then there'll actually be a demand for living space.

If that were the case then it would be completed a good 10 years after people made deposits on their units.

For that reason, I think construction definitely has to start in the first quarter of next year as they said if there is any chance of us seeing this thing. Hopefully, they have finally gotten their act together and it is a simple matter of the construction crew laying the foundation for Met2 to free up.

Thanks Quantum for the update. Even though they've said the same stuff over and over again every quarter, atleast you went to bother them and enjoy the city lol.

Yes, I did enjoy walking through downtown Miami, after not having done that in a long time, and seeing how much it has changed. I'm a die-hard romantic in that regard, standing on bridges and looking out over the city. :lol::cheers:

..

Sounds promising to me!^^

I went to thier office today to check up on MET III and yes it is still a go and very soon, however they are designing it and only to make shorter. YES it is true they said it will be between 45 to 52 stories. I'm just going to say it... I HATE THIS PLACE SOMETIMES with their bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now we get another Square building. :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

I went to thier office today to check up on MET III and yes it is still a go and very soon, however they are designing it and only to make shorter. YES it is true they said it will be between 45 to 52 stories. I'm just going to say it... I HATE THIS PLACE SOMETIMES with their bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now we get another Square building. :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


I shoot my self right now.:soapbox:

WHAT THE F@CK IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1? :wallbash:

Did they give you a reason why are they doing that?:ohno:

That means it won't be any taller than Met2 and a waste of prime real estate.

That means it won't be any taller than Met2 and a waste of prime real estate.


Wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Maybe they flipped the heights. Maybe met2 is going to be 820 ft.

Wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Maybe they flipped the heights. Maybe met2 is going to be 820 ft.

Excellent point! That did occur to me later! :):cheers:

I'm curious to see a rendering of this less impressive Met 3.

I know it is a complete letdown, but a good question might be.........would it be better to get Met 3 built at 45 to 52 stories..........or to have the lot sit vacant for 5 or 10 years???

This building will offer very little in the way of views. The original design offered very few units with North/South views and almost all of the units either had an east or west view.

All of the units facing east would look directly into Wachovia.........and the view to the west is not such a strong sell.

if being at 45 to 52 stories, wouldn't that put it at the same height as wachovia, more or less?

Lets look at the bright side, the pedestrian street vibe in that area of the CBD is going to be amazing with all the MET buildings MET Square, epic, and everything else happening.

if being at 45 to 52 stories, wouldn't that put it at the same height as wachovia, more or less?


no b/c it will be a residential building whereas the Wachovia building is offices. Office floors are higher, I think at 13 feet, and residential buildings are at 10 feet. So no... it will be around the height of the smaller tower at ICON. Depending on what they want to do. Yes you're right with the street interaction but after 3-5 years of hearing how tall this is going to be and blah blah blah, their going to make it just another short building. excuse my French but fuck that. We have no Iconic building down here except for the BOA tower. We will never see a 1000 footer here. I'm being very pessimistic here I know. But damn it I'm pissed. At 76 stories her view stands alone... not any more she is just another pop singer.......... Goodbye the "TRUE" MET 3. RIP.

no b/c it will be a residential building whereas the Wachovia building is offices. Office floors are higher, I think at 13 feet, and residential buildings are at 10 feet. So no... it will be around the height of the smaller tower at ICON. Depending on what they want to do. Yes you're right with the street interaction but after 3-5 years of hearing how tall this is going to be and blah blah blah, their going to make it just another short building. excuse my French but fuck that. We have no Iconic building down here except for the BOA tower. We will never see a 1000 footer here. I'm being very pessimistic here I know. But damn it I'm pissed. At 76 stories her view stands alone... not any more she is just another pop singer.......... Goodbye the "TRUE" MET 3. RIP.

But maybe they flipped heights.

They're not going to change plans of a building in the middle of construction. And Director you should remember we still have OBP in our hopes and dreams of the future.

They're not going to change plans of a building in the middle of construction. And Director you should remember we still have OBP in our hopes and dreams of the future.

Another excellent point! The height of a building determines its foundation. Met2's foundation might not be able to hold a taller building :cheers:

So, the historic boom comes and goes ... without producing a new tallest.

So, the historic boom comes and goes ... without producing a new tallest.

We don't really know yet. It's still too early to tell.

Another excellent point! The height of a building determines its foundation. Met2's foundation might not be able to hold a taller building :cheers:

I don't think that was his point though.

There has been soo many changes and delays with this building that doesnt surprise me this news however would not surprise me see a taller building either. I would rather wait 3 - 5 years and see a signature tower on that site.

I'm curious to see a rendering of this less impressive Met 3.

I know it is a complete letdown, but a good question might be.........would it be better to get Met 3 built at 45 to 52 stories..........or to have the lot sit vacant for 5 or 10 years???

This building will offer very little in the way of views. The original design offered very few units with North/South views and almost all of the units either had an east or west view.

All of the units facing east would look directly into Wachovia.........and the view to the west is not such a strong sell.

Excellent point.

Also, I would like to challenge someone to find a picture of a building like Espiritu Santo.

MDM has the opposite effect of Viagra.

Lets not forget about OBP guys!

MDM has the opposite effect of Viagra.
lmao.... MDM = :redx: Anti-Viagra :redx:

If this proves to be true (a downgraded Met3) then that's just criminal. It would be the SECOND time these "Met" people put up something far too small on some of the most valuable real estate in Miami---one of the few sites where genuine height is possible. They already did it with Met1.

The city should have the power to say NO to changes like this. Why should they accept it, out of desperation? That land is too valuable and it shouldn't be burdened and misused with something bland and puny for the next 50 years when it could be used for so much more. This isn't the Met3 that was promised. They should take buildings like that to Boca or Kendall.

I don't think that was his point though.

What do you think was his point?

If this proves to be true (a downgraded Met3) then that's just criminal. It would be the SECOND time these "Met" people put up something far too small on some of the most valuable real estate in Miami---one of the few sites where genuine height is possible. They already did it with Met1.

The city should have the power to say NO to changes like this. Why should they accept it, out of desperation? That land is too valuable and it shouldn't be burdened and misused with something bland and puny for the next 50 years when it could be used for so much more. This isn't the Met3 that was promised. They should take buildings like that to Boca or Kendall.

I agree with you Spellbound. They squandered a prime site.

Lets not forget about OBP guys!

What's the OBP? sorry for my ignorance.

What do you think was his point?

MET3'S height change is just a lie. That's what I understood.

Damn this is a bummer to hear. After years of waiting for a new tallest all we get is news that 25 floors have been chopped off...

This could all be rumors and speculations. Met 3 has taught us all to take everything about it with a grain of salt, so I don't think any of us should start getting worked about this rumor. Until the developer officially releases something, we don't know anything for sure.

This could all be rumors and speculations. Met 3 has taught us all to take everything about it with a grain of salt, so I don't think any of us should start getting worked about this rumor. Until the developer officially releases something, we don't know anything for sure.

I agree 100%
But who was this guy who told you Met 3's roof was going to be chopped off?
Maybe he was just thinking about it without consulting his wife.:lol:

You always need the wife's opinion.

^ How do you know ?

I hope you're right.

^ How do you know ?

I hope you're right.

How do I know what

What's the OBP? sorry for my ignorance.

OBP stands for One Bayfront Plaza, the building slated to be our new signature tower. There are renderings of it on the Miami skyline reaches new heights thread. And my philosphy is that the only stupid question is the unasked question, so no need to apologize for your ignorance here.

Everyone:),
my friendly family friends, of MIAMI:banana: !!!
until the " Fat Lady Sings " ,
according to my special sales lady just this past week ,
MET 3 still stands at 76 floors at 828 feet. Model of MET 3 still stands in her office:lol:
No changes expected !!!
all still a go this summer, 2008 !!!:cheers: and if she's wrong again,
it's IMO that shes just doing her job to say it's that soon,
but she is just doing her job as a sales lady,

always pushing the construction date to interest more buyers !!!

Yes, this could only be a new rumor, one of many associated with Met3.

I don't know who to believe anymore.:ohno:


@Quantum:

thanks man, I couldn't recoginze the name of the One Bayfront Plaza. And yeah, that is the building I'm expecting with more enthusiasm.:banana:

just wanted to let all of you know.. I always knew my wife's best friend's husband was a construction manager but I never really got to talk to him in what he focuses in. long story short It turns out he is the guy who is in charge of the concrete slab going on in Met 2. so of course we went on and I was asking him what was the deal with Met 3?

they also worked on the Marquis and he said after going 67 floors he doesn't want anything to do with Met 3 because that means he would have to go much higher (he doesn't like working so high). so he is trying not to take on that project and have someone else manage it..LOL!!

Met 3 is starting construction and They have the go ahead to build up to the 22nd floor. but thats it. The Contract agreement to go all the way up to the 76 floor is on hold.. But he said the plan is still for 76 floors. but it is pending due to the fact that they have not sold 80% of the units for that building. so the developers are holding to sign off and feel that by the time they get to 22nd floor they will have enough sold to continue then to go up higher.

I also asked him what was the official height of Marquis and he said it's final concrete height is 679 ft. whether they decide to add decoratives or windows to make it higher would be done by another company. so he was not sure on that. He went on to say that when they construct these high rises there are over 30 different companies involved with it's construction. so his responsibilty is that the structure is built perfectly.

Man this is not good news IMO, that means they are commiting to building but only 22 stories, if we ended up with a puny 22 story building there I'd shit myself!!! That's shorter than Loft 1!

At least we have a clearer picture of why nothing has risen on that site yet. A project with 80% of its units sitting unsold 3-4 years after being announced doesn't sound healthy, to say the least. I guess the "Shaq" ads didn't exactly excite people.:lol:

Seriously, though, if this turns out to be a greatly reduced building of 22 stories or whatever I'd hope the whole thing gets scrapped. It would be a terrible misuse of prime real estate.

Yeah that would really be a travesty if that turned out to be a 22 story building. That is such great real estate, just like the Met 2 site. Or we can look at the glass half full and say that we hope they end up building to the 76th floor like he said. Do you guys think they will have enough sales by then to get the go-ahead to build up? b/c if not, then I'd rather them scrap Met 3 all together and wait a few years to build something much taller there. Best case scenario we get Met 3 to its full height.



Also, nice to hear that Marquis topped out at 67 floors like we had all hoped for.

from what he told me it sounds like they will start building and by the time the they get to 22nd floor the market will be different. for a building as large as met 3 it could be a year and some months till it gets to the 22nd floor. conditions will be different in the market and once they go from 22 to 76 it will take months till it tops making buyers more certain of its existence rather then wait years and nothing happens, people get frustrated and want to back out(which is what I think happened). in other words they will see the product in the making. which would help its sales. this is all my conclusion from what he told me.

he does feel with the market dropping. casinos growing we will see another boom sooner then we expect. Only this time the inventory is there. and Met 3 will be ready.

So he sounds pretty confident that eventually a 76 story Met 3 WILL in fact be built? As in there is a greater than 50% chance of that happening?

Are you guys not getting it? Once they start they cannot decide to scrap it and wait for a better market. It's a big gamble that the market will support that many sales, don't you see that they're only committing to 22 floors and that even if the market gets significantly better it will probably still fall way short of the necessary demand to fill the additional 54 promised floors. I mean think about it guys, in 4 years they have secured 22 floors worth of sales and they're supposed to catch up in the 2 yrs it takes to build?

The math is fuzzy. One third sold in four years... two thirds will sell in half the time? Dream on. :ohno:

from what he told me it sounds like they will start building and by the time the they get to 22nd floor the market will be different. for a building as large as met 3 it could be a year and some months till it gets to the 22nd floor. conditions will be different in the market and once they go from 22 to 76 it will take months till it tops making buyers more certain of its existence rather then wait years and nothing happens, people get frustrated and want to back out(which is what I think happened). in other words they will see the product in the making, which would help its sales. this is all my conclusion from what he told me.

he does feel with the market dropping. casinos growing we will see another boom sooner then we expect. Only this time the inventory is there. and Met 3 will be ready.

What you said makes the quote: "If you build it, they will come" true to a certain extent. If prospective buyers are convinced that it really is going to happen and not just some developers fantasy, that does help a project's sales. Lower interest rates and a declining US dollar against a strong Euro are making Met3 more attractive to European investors at this point, so we shall see.:):cheers:

So tallerthebetter, you think they will start building it and then stop so it will end up being 22 stories?

Quantum i hope you are right about this, they should get European investors and other prospective condo-buyers to buy into this once it actually starts going up, and hopefully the market will turn around for highrise condos in Miami in the next 2 years. We can only hope that it goes higher than 22 floors.

So tallerthebetter, you think they will start building it and then stop so it will end up being 22 stories?

Quantum i hope you are right about this, they should get European investors and other prospective condo-buyers to buy into this once it actually starts going up, and hopefully the market will turn around for highrise condos in Miami in the next 2 years. We can only hope that it goes higher than 22 floors.

Honestly though, with as few residential units as they've sold, I would have reconfigured the project to mixed-use a long time ago before the other office towers started construction. I had thought that a greater number of sales already than what they had is what had kept them from doing that.

I don't know about you guys but do you think the developer would spend time and money building a foundation for an 800+ ft. tower in prime downtown location to end up with 22 stories? I'm going with the faith of the construction manager. He's sure it will happen. but I do understand the what if?

My guess is that if they are building it to accommodate higher than 22 stories, it will go higher than 22 stories. The question is when...assuming the developer doesn't go bankrupt beforehand.

This seems very strange though. I've never heard of such a strategy before. What if they sell half of the remaining units in a reasonable amount of time? Will they build half of the structure or is it all or nothing after the 22 stories? My guess is that the developer is quite confident.

^^

all this sounds awful to me...since when do u start a building not knowing what the final floor count will be???

:ohno:

Let's hope the construction manager's faith is correct. I am still holding out hope for Met 3. It looks like it may be just what we wanted originally, a 76 story MET 3 :) Like you said, it would not make sense for them to build the foundation/pedestal for a skyscraper and then end up with a 22 story low-rise. It just doesn't add up which leads me to beleive that they really feel this will eventually go 76 floors as though originally.

and who knows, if they don't have enough sales to go higher, maybe it turns into mixed-use and they use the middle or upper floors for offices.....idk

Also, I think some of you may be worried for no reason, the developer may be telling people that he's not sure if it will go beyond 22 simply because he doesn't want to be criticized if something weird happens and it doesn't go more than 22.....but in reality he feels very confident that it will go 76. Kind of like how at a restaurant they'll tell you it's an hour wait and you get called in 10 minutes, they told you that just to be safe in case they messed up and it was in fact an hour. Same kind of thing.

obviously the developer doesn't have enough funds to build MET 3 and having only 20% of the units sold after all of these years bodes very badly for this project. Also consider the millions they paid for this prime piece of real estate simply to build such a short tower. Now if the building only goes up to 45 to 50 stories as has been suggested here all of a sudden that 20% rises to nearly 50% sold instead which is the threshold for financing most of the time. That seems to be their strategy at this time. I'd prefer the scrap the project until something more viable comes along.

22 stories?

Instead of wasting money, construction gear, and land they should be thinking about it right now.:bash:

A few people (Spell, Bob, etc) have misunderstood the 80% number. It doesn't mean that the developer has only sold 20%. It does mean that the lender is waiting for 80% sold to fully commit to the project. No lender is greenlighting a building with only 50% sold nowadays Bob, not ONE. That number use to be 65 to 75% but now lenders are overly cautious and the ongoing credit crunch means 80% is becoming the standard. Based on those calculations Met3 could have easily sold over 50% (only the developers and underwriters know for sure) by now but the lender will not consider that a safe bet. Remember not all sales will close, the lenders take that into consideration specially in this market hence the high 80% requirement.

The best chance for the full height is that a private entity (an individual or private investor fund with very deep pockets) will realize that this location with the built in height allowance is a long term no brainer but a lender's job is to be cautious not a maverick.

obviously the developer doesn't have enough funds to build MET 3 and having only 20% of the units sold after all of these years bodes very badly for this project. Also consider the millions they paid for this prime piece of real estate simply to build such a short tower. Now if the building only goes up to 45 to 50 stories as has been suggested here all of a sudden that 20% rises to nearly 50% sold instead which is the threshold for financing most of the time. That seems to be their strategy at this time. I'd prefer the scrap the project until something more viable comes along.

How about Perez's Vulture fund?

Thanks for the clarification, taller. That number did seem staggeringly low but who knows in this crappy market.

I guess we're still waiting for something definitive about the project's actual size but it would be a real shame to see something smaller rise there. We need to remember that Miami only has a very limited area where truly impressive height is allowed and this is one of them. Personally, I'd rather see the parcel used for something grander at a later time if this other scenario plays out with Met3 but that may not be realistic, either.

(memo to future developers: Shaq doesn't sell condos):lol:

The best chance for the full height is that a private entity (an individual or private investor fund with very deep pockets) will realize that this location with the built in height allowance is a long term no brainer but a lender's job is to be cautious not a maverick.

Thanks for the clarification on the numbers from me too thetallerthebetter. Never was much of a numbers man. But what I've quoted from what you've said above is what I had thought of myself, but I didn't want to say anything in the Forum because you know, at this point, that is the direction I tend to go in anyway. I suspect one or more guys with very deep pockets wants to have a place there and they are the ones keeping the project alive while giving the developer this one last chance. I feel that is why the developer never reconfigured to mixed-use incorporating office, even though he should have done that over a year ago in order to be ahead of the office towers. One or more guys with very deep pockets I think wants to keep the project strictly residential because they want to have a place in the tallest residential tower south of Manhattan. My power supply went out again, btw, and I'm using my neighbor's computer, so if I don't respond to any PMs, that is the reason why.

I believe the information I looked up about Met 3 is that there are between 600-650 units ,which means theythe developers would have to sell between 480-510 units sold before the lenders will even do the financing. This is definitely a prodigy for the developer to have this many units sold ,so as mentioned the developer has to look for someone with deep pockets elsewhere.

Even though this is a great project it is all about location and Met 3 is not located on the Miami river,however it is located on prime real estate in downtown.. and is accessible to places close by and convenient for the residences and the working class.

at the prices they are wanting to sell for a landlocked unit with really no views other then into other buildings they wont be able to sell unless they build two towers or split the units into smaller units.

i dont see this project going anywhere until after 2012

Gentlemen does anybody have an update on met 3, i see nobody has replied on this subject in a few weeks, any new updates would be great.


Thanks

Gentlemen does anybody have an update on met 3, i see nobody has replied on this subject in a few weeks, any new updates would be great.


Thanks

The last thing I heard is that it will get built once MET 2 is completed;however we don't know yet how tall met3 is going to be.:ohno:

I drove by yesterday and the site looks the same as it has for a while. They still have the Met 3 banner around the perimeter of the site though.

Who the heck knows with Met3? There's been so many supposed "guarantees" on when construction would start (none of them factual as it turned out) that I'll only think it's serious if and when something real happens...as in pilings actually rising.

If it's been cut down in size substantially as has been rumored by some then who cares anyway? It would be a gross misuse of that parcel. We'll see...

Has anybody heard the latest on Met III? Is it still a go and will it still stand 866ft?

Has anybody heard the latest on Met III? Is it still a go and will it still stand 866ft?

No one knows anything about Met 3, and everything is just speculative, so it's basically pointless to ask. The site is the same as always and the "special sales lady" says the same thing as always. In other words, fuggetaboutit unless you see something going vertical on the site.

I truly beleive this building will go up after MetII and i think it be be the 866ft building that everyone wants to see. Let's hope!

yeah keep it buddy.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I truly beleive this building will go up after MetII and i think it be be the 866ft building that everyone wants to see. Let's hope!

That proposed height was scaled back a long time ago. Their own website lists it at 817'

we all know but were crossing our finger or hoping it will get more than 800 ft!!

Everyone :grouphug: , This is it :righton: , MET 3 has started, I talked to my special sales lady on friday. Its finally started with the 4 month Foundation, and at 75 floors :happy: and " 866 " feet :happy: high, I was getting upset when she told me it would be at the End Of JUNE !!!, but with a week of preparing the site with the equipment, they have finally started.

Lets do it :rock: :applause: ,

Celebration time for MIAMI's Tallest tower for the next 5 years,
It will be Completed on December, 2010 !!! :dance:

this is funny, i feel like im taking a peak at the future.which turned worse for met 3

^^Do you know how many times we read here that Met3 had "started construction" or that the "special sales lady" had "promised" that absolutely, positively it would begin in the next quarter? It just became a broken record after awhile.

Sure, it would be nice to see it actually rise someday but I doubt many of us are holding our breath over it any longer. It's been five years since it was first announced. Enough.

*almost afraid to ask but fighting through the fear*

Any news ?

*almost afraid to ask but fighting through the fear*

Any news ?

Dale, I haven't heard any news since the pics I took from the Metromover that I posted on QuantumPX where it still looked to be a staging ground for Met2. I talked to one of the Met2 hardhats about it, and he said it didn't even have a construction company assigned to it. He said "Baker" wanted it, but no construction company has even been signed to it.

*almost afraid to ask but fighting through the fear*

Any news ?

Same old, same old. Met 3 isn't going to break ground anytime soon. Maybe and MAYBE it'll break ground after Met 2 has been finished, but even that is wishful thinking. Met 3 will continue to be Met 2's closet until Met 2 has been finished.

Same old, same old. Met 3 isn't going to break ground anytime soon. Maybe and MAYBE it'll break ground after Met 2 has been finished, but even that is wishful thinking. Met 3 will continue to be Met 2's closet until Met 2 has been finished.

Since they haven't even updated their website in something like two years I think maybe the Met3 folks are just operating under a different timetable than most of us. An Egyptian one, perhaps...:lol:

http://www.guardians.net/egypt/sphinx/images/sphinx-southeast-2001.jpg

:lol: good one spell.

I would imagine that Met 3 is sitting on the fence. The way the market/economy is going right now and them having trouble getting even 50% occupancy, why the hell would they build another one? Things need to change from the current state in real estate in order for this thing to get built. For now it will be a staging area for Met2. The goods news is Met2 still has a way to go which might give it enough time for things to change.

yeah but it is starting to speed up

..

Lame.

So thats basically just the podium then?

The 14-story Met3?? Good Lord. What a letdown from what was originally proposed there...even if it had become obvious it wasn't to be.

I'd rather see nothing go there so that the parcel might have the kind of grand structure it demands. The "on hold" stuff has been going on for years at this point and there's zero indication that will change. Man, I'd so much rather see an office tower rise there than see it continue to be held hostage by the Met folks.

this is crap, most buildings that get built podium only, never get finished. For example the garage at the wachovia building can have something built on top but it would be very difficult to do it now, and i have a feeling it'll happen again here.

The verdict is in: Historic highrise building boom fails to produce new tallest.

If it stays 14 stories then what a waste of space that would be.

..

Not that it matters, but you are incorrect: 2003 saw the completion of Miami's tallest building, and BFC2 which is much taller than met 3 is scheduled to break ground ~16 months from today.

MDM would not be building a 2000 car garage for Met 3 unless they actually planned to build a tower, as the cost to build parking space is extremely expensive. At least the Whole Foods will be there, and by the time the podium is complete they might be ready to build the rest. I am happy that met 3 might be redesigned, the design is not bad but nothing special, the twin towers of met 2 are much nicer.

When you consider that most of our new towers were completed in 2007 and 2008, I'm not sure if 2003 could be considered part of the "boom" or just part of a normal pace of development. What would be considered the beginning of the "boom?" I've said what I thought it was, and the Four Seasons was already under construction at that point.

Dave8721 has said he considers the Marquis to be the tallest tower produced by the "boom," but I believe any building that eventually gets built as a result of the interest created by the "boom" is still a part of the "boom" whether our new tallest is Met3 or BFC II.

I am happy that met 3 might be redesigned, the design is not bad but nothing special, the twin towers of met 2 are much nicer.

Is there a link to where we might see this?

..

Not that it matters, but you are incorrect: 2003 saw the completion of Miami's tallest building, and BFC2 which is much taller than met 3 is scheduled to break ground ~16 months from today.

MDM would not be building a 2000 car garage for Met 3 unless they actually planned to build a tower, as the cost to build parking space is extremely expensive. At least the Whole Foods will be there, and by the time the podium is complete they might be ready to build the rest. I am happy that met 3 might be redesigned, the design is not bad but nothing special, the twin towers of met 2 are much nicer.

It's hard for me to seriously consider a tower started around 1999 as being a part of this boom. And since you mention Met 3's design, it's the lack of interesting designs that I find even more disappointing that the lack of a new tallest.

And just so you'll know where I'm coming from, I am disappointed on Miami's behalf. I've been an ardent observer of its recent boom, as evidence by my frequent posts on this subforum.

Well for now I am happy with the mix of buildings we've gotten out of this boom. What we desperately need more of is street interaction, mid-rise building, work-force housing and all the street aesthetics that will make it a wonderful place to live, work and play! :cheers:

The sales at Met 3 must not be going well as they needed 80% pre-sales before they were to build on that site if memory serves me correctly.

The sales at Met 3 must not be going well as they needed 80% pre-sales before they were to build on that site if memory serves me correctly.

Yeah, I don't think there's much doubt that sales were poor. If they had gone well it would have risen a long time ago.

I'm not sure they're even marketing it anymore. There was a time when you could find ads for it in publications like the NY Times but that was years ago at this point and even the Met3 website has sat unchanged for a couple of years. Pretty safe to say that the original proposal is officially dead with this new announcement. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it all eventually pans out but obviously it's going to be a long wait.

Not yet, the article says possible future uses are office or residential, implying it probably will be redesigned.

I'd like to see Met3 with Met2's design, but only 200 feet taller.

I'd like to see Met3 with Met2's design, but only 200 feet taller.

They should build a sleek type structure like Seattle's Space Needle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Needle) or Toronto's CN Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN_Tower).

It's hard for me to seriously consider a tower started around 1999 as being a part of this boom.

The Four Seasons was planned as early as 1998. I remember the Herald article and the renderings, and I know it was at least 1998 because I was still in my South Beach apartment with the fabulous view. As I've said before, it was planned to be over 900 feet tall at that time, but got chopped down to 794 feet by the FAA. Then, it settled into the ground by 5 feet. Now with the new height restrictions, we know it could have been over 900 feet tall.

They should build a sleek type structure like Seattle's Space Needle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Needle) or Toronto's CN Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN_Tower).

How about VERTICUS! :lol:

It's hard for me to seriously consider a tower started around 1999 as being a part of this boom.

I agree. I consider Four Seasons prior to the boom.

And since you mention Met 3's design, it's the lack of interesting designs that I find even more disappointing that the lack of a new tallest. And just so you'll know where I'm coming from, I am disappointed on Miami's behalf. I've been an ardent observer of its recent boom, as evidence by my frequent posts on this subforum.

Can you be more specific? I think the designs and growth have been impressive for the most part. I like 900 Biscayne, MarinaBlue, BFC2, Marquis, Icon, Met 2. I even like 50 Biscayne, Everglades and Ten Museum. And let's not forget Axis, Plaza, Brickell on the River (both towers), The Ivy, Wind, Epic, Asia, 500 Brickell, Infinity, Mint, Met 1, One Miami, Opera Tower, Paramount Bay, Quantum and BFC1. That's a pretty long and impressive list of high-rise buildings if you ask me. Anyone else agree? I have to think that if you are unimpressed by Miami's boom then you are probably impossible to impress. Not many other cities in the world have ever seen this type of high-rise explosion ever, and certainly not Orlando!

Lastly, posting on this site alone isn't evidence that someone is an ardent observer. I consider an ardent observer someone who lives here and who is frequently in downtown. For example, I think Quantum can say he is an ardent observer. He really has "evidence" with all his photos. It's hard for me to seriously consider anyone an ardent observer of Miami when they don't live here and say they are because they post on here.

For example, I think Quantum can say he is an ardent observer. He really has "evidence" with all his photos.

I've been an ardent observer since I moved here in 1984 and witnessed the second half of the 80s boom first hand. I've been an ardent observer of booms in other cities since 1974, two of which I've lived in. That is how I know Johnny Vinton's quote that I use in my signature line could well turn out to be true. It is how I knew Miami statistically had the third largest skyline in the country before I ever heard anybody else say it. Nothing happened in other American cities the likes of which happened here in Miami all at once. This is why what I've said on this website is not just some optimistic flight of fantasy. Because of the interest generated by the magnitude of the boom, I don't think it's really over. This is just a lull in the market. But as Spellbound said, this type of thing is always a mixed bag with some more interesting projects not making it while some others do. Overall, I'm pleased, and more is coming at a more civilized pace of development.

Well for now I am happy with the mix of buildings we've gotten out of this boom. What we desperately need more of is street interaction, mid-rise building, work-force housing and all the street aesthetics that will make it a wonderful place to live, work and play! :cheers:

I agree with you here. A 74-story Met III would have been nice, but it increasingly seemed less and less realistic. Met I was not delivered as promised, Met II has had it's fair share of obstacles, the developer is bogged down in litigation as I understand it - all pretty good indicators that a new tallest was not in the cards of the immediate future. Yet, a Whole Foods is certainly a good addition to downtown, and definitely worth looking forward to. As the boom dwindles, we'll hopefully have lots of interesting and much-needed infill in the works. Still, you can't help but be a little disappointed.

Still, you can't help but be a little disappointed.

And if you know of the three buildings that were planned for those lots 25 years ago and how, so far, we are still denied a new tallest on the Met3 site yet again, you are probably more than just a little disappointed.

Q, who is the music artist for your video?? You said it was someone who used to be popular but isn't anymore. Is it MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice? :lol: That would really be old school. :nuts:

Q, who is the music artist for your video?? You said it was someone who used to be popular but isn't anymore. Is it MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice? :lol: That would really be old school. :nuts:

God no! It's a secret, but it is an updated popular version of a piece of classical music from a 19th century opera that was given a techno beat. :):banana:

And if you know of the three buildings that were planned for those lots 25 years ago and how, so far, we are still denied a new tallest on the Met3 site yet again, you are probably more than just a little disappointed.

That perfectly encapsulates how I feel about the site, Q, and why (admittedly) I haven't been a real big fan of the 'Met' folks the past year or two.

I just feel like they have delivered less than advertised on arguably THE most valuable piece of real-estate in downtown Miami and that maybe a real opportunity for something truly grand there has been lost.

That doesn't mean they're bad people without the best intentions. They advertised the hell out of Met3 and it's not their fault the market collapsed. That was a LOT of units to sell in an already overbuilt area and I'm sure they were reluctant to abandon the original proposal.

They also score points for raising Met2 in a dicey economy---along with strong urbanity by continuing to pursue anchors like Whole Foods, even if it's part of a parking garage.

Still...Met 1 just underwhelms me. Not that it isn't a fine place to live---just that it could be in Boca Raton architecturally and size-wise---and that primo site where Met3 was to rise is now being "reconfigured" into something else, with no assurance whatsoever something far more significant is on the horizon.

We'll see what happens. At the very least it's good that they finally had ANYTHING tangible to say about the '3' site...even if my preference is for some mystery developer with a billion dollars to blow would swoop in and put up the building that site deserves. :cheers:

Still...Met 1 just underwhelms me. Not that it isn't a fine place to live---just that it could be in Boca Raton architecturally and size-wise---and that primo site where Met3 was to rise is now being "reconfigured" into something else, with no assurance whatsoever something far more significant is on the horizon.

Haha, I saw this and assumed it was an open invitation for my comment. :lol:

Although I understand your point about Met1 and how it's relatively small for downtown Miami, there isn't even a snowball's chance in hell that Boca Raton would ever approve something that big... at least not by today's standards. Physically, the tower is just too tall--Boca has a 120-foot height cap in the CRA (Community Redevelopment Area) and a 250-foot cap along any waterfront with ocean access. Aesthetically, however, it would be denied without question--it lacks any Mediterranean inspiration that could be likened to Boca's iconic hero-architect: Addison Mizner.

Back to Met 3, though. I'm actually a little optimistic about them making a parking pedestal for now and seeing what happens to the market-economy over the next 5-20 years. Since its zoning is special permit mixed-use (or something of that nature), it's very possible that down the road they may even produce something "taller" on the foundation than what we imagined for Met3! And, by then, they may even be able to tweek* the design specs and produce an even more attractive space. I could see this doing far better as office space than as res... aside from the top 10-15 floors, the building is surrounded on all sides by development and lacks any attractive bay/river views.

There's my two bits. :speech::lol::banana::cheers::rock::horse::dizzy::wave::drunk::lurker::speech:

God no! It's a secret, but it is an updated popular version of a piece of classical music from a 19th century opera that was given a techno beat. :):banana:

When you mentioned this before I immediately thought Jan Hammer of "Miami Vice", and Cocaine Cowboys".:cheers:

When you mentioned this before I immediately thought Jan Hammer of "Miami Vice", and Cocaine Cowboys".:cheers:

Classical & Techno...hmm....first one that comes to mind is Tiesto's Adagio for strings, but I'm thinking that might be too techno for a video of buildings. Maybe you could have them play the video at club space haha, just joking. In any case good luck with it.

I agree. I consider Four Seasons prior to the boom.



Can you be more specific? I think the designs and growth have been impressive for the most part. I like 900 Biscayne, MarinaBlue, BFC2, Marquis, Icon, Met 2. I even like 50 Biscayne, Everglades and Ten Museum. And let's not forget Axis, Plaza, Brickell on the River (both towers), The Ivy, Wind, Epic, Asia, 500 Brickell, Infinity, Mint, Met 1, One Miami, Opera Tower, Paramount Bay, Quantum and BFC1. That's a pretty long and impressive list of high-rise buildings if you ask me. Anyone else agree? I have to think that if you are unimpressed by Miami's boom then you are probably impossible to impress. Not many other cities in the world have ever seen this type of high-rise explosion ever, and certainly not Orlando!

Lastly, posting on this site alone isn't evidence that someone is an ardent observer. I consider an ardent observer someone who lives here and who is frequently in downtown. For example, I think Quantum can say he is an ardent observer. He really has "evidence" with all his photos. It's hard for me to seriously consider anyone an ardent observer of Miami when they don't live here and say they are because they post on here.

Posts aside, I have been an ardent observer. Indeed, I have been rather invested in Miami's boom.

As to number of highrises, I did not dispute that. As to designs, never mind me, a number of Miamians on this board have commented on the blandness of most of the designs.

Finally, it's hard for me to take seriously your assessment of the quality of designs the boom has produced just because you live down there.

Posts aside, I have been an ardent observer. Indeed, I have been rather invested in Miami's boom.

Why would you invest in such "bland and disappointing" projects?

As to number of highrises, I did not dispute that.

That you cannot argue.

As to designs, never mind me, a number of Miamians on this board have commented on the blandness of most of the designs.

Who has said the designs are bland? Name the people and name the buildings they said were bland. I think all of those buildings I named in a prior post are all impressive and of great design. I mean how can you argue that Icon, MarinaBlue, 900 Biscayne, Marquis, Met 2 and Epic (to name the ones that really stand out in my opinion) are not beautiful and impressive? I know everyone has their own opinion but these buildings were very modernly designed. I would like to ask you Dale, what would you like to see for them to impress you? I would really like to hear this one. Don't tell me you expect helicopter pads on every balcony or something. Or the building to be made completely of glass with no concrete. So again if you do not like them then you are living in the wrong century. You need to go to the year 2400 or something because by today's standards they are magnificient.

Finally, it's hard for me to take seriously your assessment of the quality of designs the boom has produced just because you live down there.

Ahha! You have made the mistake to think that I am biased because I live here. Just because I live here doesn't mean I blind myself to what buildings are nasty and which ones are well designed. If anything it makes me scrutinize them more since I have to see them everyday. Sure we have some ugly as hell buildings such as the Vue and The Club at Brickell, in my opinion. But the ones I mentioned above along with the prior post are all very very nice. Bottomline is Miami's skyline is impressive and stands out. But nevermind me, just look at all the photos people have taken. :)

P.S. And why would so many people take so many photos if the buildings were bland? Hmmmmmm.....

yeah and futuristic buildings are getting uglier i really love this years buildings

As much as I'd like to believe that they'd just start up from where they left off on the "parking pedestal" of Met 3, I just don't see it happening. I see the "14-story Met 3" being demolished before I see them ever building a redesigned tower on top of the parking garage.

Which brings me to another question, if it's just going to be a parking garage with a Whole Foods and a gym, why don't they just incorporate the gym and Whole Foods into Met Square (if they ever decide to start that too) and sell the Met 3 lot to another developer or wait until the market is stronger? This makes me very mad to see them downsize it so significantly. 14-stories is a joke for such prime real estate, it's offensive!

As much as I'd like to believe that they'd just start up from where they left off on the "parking pedestal" of Met 3, I just don't see it happening. I see the "14-story Met 3" being demolished before I see them ever building a redesigned tower on top of the parking garage.

Which brings me to another question, if it's just going to be a parking garage with a Whole Foods and a gym, why don't they just incorporate the gym and Whole Foods into Met Square (if they ever decide to start that too) and sell the Met 3 lot to another developer or wait until the market is stronger? This makes me very mad to see them downsize it so significantly. 14-stories is a joke for such prime real estate, it's offensive!

Totally agree. Given the track record here I'd actually prefer that site to remain bare and undeveloped for another few years for the simple reason that this so-called "pedestal" may very well turn out to be all she wrote for Met3---at least for far too many years.

Even if these people had the best intentions (and there's no reason to think they didn't) this is such a PRIMO part of downtown...a real showcase spot crying out for something stunning and tall...that I see no reason to make exceptions or excuses for anyone not able to make it happen there. What they're proposing right now isn't much bigger than the "mall" next to the Dadeland North station. That's just not good enough, imo.

..

Virtually every person here has expressed frustration over Met3 in the past. I hardly think it's "antagonizing" for any of us to desire something spectacular on that spot since it remains one of the prime real-estate locations in the city AND one of the few where genuine height is possible. I will continue to hope for the best in that regard.

Let's be honest here. You remain upset that I called out your comments a while back claiming (among other things) that certain ethnic groups are "better" than others in regards to everything from work habits to appearance. I found that offensive and said so. Since then, your tone has remained hostile and so be it. I would respond the same way to anyone else making such statements.

I still find you to be an intelligent and informative poster despite it all and would hope in the future you can disagree with something in a mature manner that would better reflect those positive attributes.

I don't want to see Met 3 rising anymore. I would like it if they give the land to other people.

^^what if they build a target or a publix are u out of ur mind.

Hell no!!!

I mean to other firms.

I think they should build 1000' high. Even if it's hollow or just an elevator to an observation deck on top.

^^^^:lol:^^^^

http://i.namipan.com/files/502cc086c62871811e9634ce2af341c1b211b214215d0100a2fa/3/1.jpg
Posted by toddhubert on the Guangzhou TV Tower thread.

Something like the CN tower could be nice.

Threads like this are why I love this site.

(btw, I fully support a 1500' foot statue of Telly Savalas straddling Government Cut...NOBODY would fu*k with Miami with that staring them in the face)

http://www.hellenism.net/images/famous/savalas.jpg

Threads like this are why I love this site.

(btw, I fully support a 1500' foot statue of Telly Savalas straddling Government Cut...NOBODY would fu*k with Miami with that staring them in the face)

http://www.hellenism.net/images/famous/savalas.jpg

No, no, no! It has to be the Starship Enterprise if Miami has any chance of beating out San Francisco in its bid to be Starfleet Headquarters in 2210.

(btw, I fully support a 1500' foot statue of Telly Savalas straddling Government Cut...NOBODY would fu*k with Miami with that staring them in the face)

It would have a massive Fog Horn that would blare WHO LOVES YA BABY!?

..

That was already posted,

Met Square starting is huge.... It will change the dynamics of the street experience completely. I was always afraid Met Square was a place holder for a larger building, and that it would never get built. Shops and a movie theater with glitzy lights will be great in downtown..

Glad to know we're finally starting to hear concrete news on the Met project. Still a HUGE disappointment that Met 3 has been reduced to a parking garage and a supermarket, but what you can do. For those who remember, what is suppose to go in Met Square?

No, no, no! It has to be the Starship Enterprise if Miami has any chance of beating out San Francisco in its bid to be Starfleet Headquarters in 2210.

Sadly, I fear that battle is already lost. The best we can do is hope for Starfleet Southeast Regional Branch Office.

Met Square starting is huge.... It will change the dynamics of the street experience completely. I was always afraid Met Square was a place holder for a larger building, and that it would never get built. Shops and a movie theater with glitzy lights will be great in downtown..

Agreed. I like that Met Square opens up to the rest of downtown, rather than turning inwards. Always good for offshoot developments, in this case more retail.

Glad to know we're finally starting to hear concrete news on the Met project. Still a HUGE disappointment that Met 3 has been reduced to a parking garage and a supermarket, but what you can do. For those who remember, what is suppose to go in Met Square?

Some movie theaters. Don't you remeber it was supposed to be our lil Times Square?

I thought our lil Times Square was going between Omni & the PAC... anyone else remember what I'm talking about?

I think that's the PARK WEST project.

There was another one.....I'll go sniff out the thread.

^^ Your probaly talking about the center that slated for the Herlads parking lot, next to the PAC. Whaere wal-Mart wants to go. :dunno:

This is funny.
http://www.doverkohl.com/project.aspx?id=36&type=2&image=1

Miami Media and Entertainment Center
http://img60.exs.cx/img60/8162/miamimedia29iu.jpg
http://img60.exs.cx/img60/6483/miamimedia18bk.jpg

Posted by The Mad Hatter!!
Downtown Miami Project Rundown
page 10

That's a good thread, lots of interesting stuff. I'll bring it back.

^^Oh, Lord..."Baylink," remember that? Has it really already been five years since those proposals were made? Man does time ever fly.

Agreed. I like that Met Square opens up to the rest of downtown, rather than turning inwards. Always good for offshoot developments, in this case more retail.

Do you or anyone else here have more detailed renderings of Met Square? I'm curious to see how exactly it is going to look and how the stores will interact with the sidewalks and pedestrian level.

Kevin, I was going off the single rendering on http://www.metropolitanmiami.com/home.html It's not the best, but it gives a fair idea.

My slant on Met 3 is its location,it is on the other side of of the Metro-Rail away from the Miami River,everyone loves a river or bay view, rather it is surrounded by office buildings and a hotel.Met 1 and Met 2 offer this luxury,maybe they should have built the tallest building(Met3) on the river first where Met 1 is now and it would be a done deal.

My slant on Met 3 is its location,it is on the other side of of the Metro-Rail away from the Miami River,everyone loves a river or bay view, rather it is surrounded by office buildings and a hotel.Met 1 and Met 2 offer this luxury,maybe they should have built the tallest building(Met3) on the river first where Met 1 is now and it would be a done deal.

I think, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that the current Met 3 site allows for the height they designed whereas the site for Met 1 & 2 had restrictions for that height.

Do you or anyone else here have more detailed renderings of Met Square? I'm curious to see how exactly it is going to look and how the stores will interact with the sidewalks and pedestrian level.

Go to the developers website, they have about 6 or 7 renderings, all of which are close up.

This is purely a rumor and nothing more - no evidence to back it up whatsoever, but I figured I share it with you anyway and see if anyone else has heard something similar.

I was talking with a friend of mine who bought in Met I and is now suing the developer for breach. He told me that his attorney is trying to push the claim forward at warp speed now because he (the attorney) seems to believe that the developer will be insolvent in the not too distant future.

Again, I have no reason to believe this is true, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

What are the reasons for legal action?

Not sure of all the details because I didn't want to prod, but generally, his claim is that the unit they delivered is several hundred square feet short of what was advertised and continues to be advertised on the website. I believe there is also a claim addressing the disparities between what was promised and what was delivered with regards to common areas and amenities. There's also probably subsequent claims about differences in the finishes and other aspects of the unit, since that seems to be the case with just about every project in Miami. Not sure he'll win on the latter issues, but if his facts are straight on the first one, I think he'll win out.

^^^^That is B.S. That is unbelievable that MET 1 would sell units 700 sq ft under what is advertise. I hope your friend wins. And then slaps them.

He said several, not seven...lol

I think its nice to put the tallest building inside, because then the skyline can progress up. It makes the city look much desner and gives it more depth. Furthermore, this allows more buildings to have views of the water. If you put the tallest buildings in the front, then no one else gets to see the water. DUH! Also, then all you would see is the first row of buildings. What makes brickell nice from the water, is that the taller buildings are set back.

Look at any major city with a lot of skyscrapers, and most have a progression of buildings as they move away from the water.

I think its nice to put the tallest building inside, because then the skyline can progress up. It makes the city look much desner and gives it more depth. Furthermore, this allows more buildings to have views of the water. If you put the tallest buildings in the front, then no one else gets to see the water. DUH! Also, then all you would see is the first row of buildings. What makes brickell nice from the water, is that the taller buildings are set back.

Look at any major city with a lot of skyscrapers, and most have a progression of buildings as they move away from the water.

It's probably a good idea to also protect the larger buildings (with smaller buildings) from hurricane winds or water surge.

Look at any major city with a lot of skyscrapers, and most have a progression of buildings as they move away from the water.

It's like taking a class picture. If you put all the tall kids in the front, you can't see the rest of the class. I think Boston and Seattle do this particularly well. It makes for a more interesting skyline, in my opinion. On the other hand, Chicago's skyline, which I think Miami's resembles most, has plenty of tall buildings in the front row.

It's like taking a class picture. If you put all the tall kids in the front, you can't see the rest of the class. I think Boston and Seattle do this particularly well. It makes for a more interesting skyline, in my opinion. On the other hand, Chicago's skyline, which I think Miami's resembles most, has plenty of tall buildings in the front row.

You see that too, huh? I saw it more than I ever have Sunday when I took that shot from the Cape Florida Lighthouse. :cheers:

..

...

Oh no, not again.

..

It still looks like Met2's staging ground.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3343/3275018085_f2540b1583_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3343/3275018085_f2540b1583_b.jpg

It still looks like Met2's staging ground.


Met3 is actually already built and occupied. What people don't realize is that the structure tunnels 866-feet downwards into limestone and oolite. What you see on the surface is an eco-friendly base, with air vents and elevator shafts cleverly disguised as "automobiles" and "sand."

All the excitement and bustle of urban living is buried hundreds of feet below the surface, especially at the Rem Koolhaas-inspired "Infinity Pool" at Biscayne Aquifier Sub-Level 33.

Above-ground living is so 2005. Met3 is setting new standards in downward mobility.

Met3 is actually already built and occupied. What people don't realize is that the structure tunnels 866-feet downwards into limestone and oolite. What you see on the surface is an eco-friendly base, with air vents and elevator shafts cleverly disguised as "automobiles" and "sand."

All the excitement and bustle of urban living is buried hundreds of feet below the surface, especially at the Rem Koolhaas-inspired "Infinity Pool" at Biscayne Aquifier Sub-Level 33.

Above-ground living is so 2005. Met3 is setting new standards in downward mobility.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::cheers::cheers:Classic.

Met3 is actually already built and occupied. What people don't realize is that the structure tunnels 866-feet downwards into limestone and oolite. What you see on the surface is an eco-friendly base, with air vents and elevator shafts cleverly disguised as "automobiles" and "sand."

All the excitement and bustle of urban living is buried hundreds of feet below the surface, especially at the Rem Koolhaas-inspired "Infinity Pool" at Biscayne Aquifier Sub-Level 33.

Above-ground living is so 2005. Met3 is setting new standards in downward mobility.You should be a comedian Spellbound ,you'd make a good one.

:banana:

It appears that Met 3 quite possibly has been redesigned. It looks shorter and slightly Art Deco-ish. This image was taken from an Engadget article post discussing the University of Hawaii's architectural division and a 3D printer that they use to create models. Be advised that the article makes no mention of the MET Miami project but rather offers an image. It is arguably a reliable source for determining whether or not a redesign has taken place. Enjoy:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/637/metpjctmiami.jpg

Article/Image Source:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/04/z-corps-3d-printers-available-to-hawaiian-school-students-the/

It reminds me of the original design, with the mohawk design crown.

It reminds me of the original design, with the mohawk design crown.

That looks like the model I saw in the Met sales office years ago, my most recent visit being December of 2007 when they said Met3 was breaking ground in the first quarter of 2008!

Great find gus_chi! Met 3's design has changed so much, that I'm not sure whether this could be a new design or an older design. Who knows. Once Met 2 is completed, what's supposed to follow (economy willing), Met Square or Met 3?

Hopefully, Met Square!

Looks like the original design from six years ago when the project was announced. Nothing new on their website (which hasn't been updated since September, 2006).

I don't think Met3 was ever on any kind sequential schedule. It just didn't have enough sales to make it a go---and would have risen long ago if it did. Maybe it'll still happen someday when things are turned around but I'm guessing the site will eventually be home to an entirely different project.

Looks like the original design from six years ago when the project was announced. Nothing new on their website (which hasn't been updated since September, 2006).

I don't think Met3 was ever on any kind sequential schedule. It just didn't have enough sales to make it a go---and would have risen long ago if it did. Maybe it'll still happen someday when things are turned around but I'm guessing the site will eventually be home to an entirely different project.

I hope whatever eventually goes there has some stature on such a prime piece of real estate. And I hope I'm still alive to see it even if I'm already a senior citizen by then.

I hope whatever eventually goes there has some stature on such a prime piece of real estate. And I hope I'm still alive to see it even if I'm already a senior citizen by then.

Totally agreed the site demands something of real stature and quality. My fear would be if the Met folks go ahead with a building that is even further reduced in size than what was originally proposed. Under that scenario (if, indeed, Met3 even is still being planned) I'd prefer to see the parcel remain vacant until such time as someone else is able to put together a project worthy of it. Met1 is already too small for that site...I don't want to see that repeated.

Remember that with age comes wisdom, Q. Incontinence and senility, too, but definitely wisdom. :lol:

Totally agreed the site demands something of real stature and quality. My fear would be if the Met folks go ahead with a building that is even further reduced in size than what was originally proposed. Under that scenario (if, indeed, Met3 even is still being planned) I'd prefer to see the parcel remain vacant until such time as someone else is able to put together a project worthy of it. Met1 is already too small for that site...I don't want to see that repeated.

Remember that with age comes wisdom, Q. Incontinence and senility, too, but definitely wisdom. :lol:

Agreed. I'd rather see nothing, than a dimpy short version of Met3. The site will be home to something better and taller if Met 3 isn't built. I can wait lol.

Remember that with age comes wisdom, Q. Incontinence and senility, too, but definitely wisdom. :lol:

I think I have to go to Men's Room, but I can't seem to remember if I do or not. :lol::ohno:

IMHO, I think Met1 is another one they can implode if they implode Miami One.:bash:

Agreed. I'd rather see nothing, than a dimpy short version of Met3. The site will be home to something better and taller if Met 3 isn't built. I can wait lol.

This is an old Kobi Karp design for One Bayfront Plaza, and I think it would look great as a redesigned supertall Met3 next to the redesigned Met2 that is going up. I think the two designs compliment each other. That is why I asked Dave to dig this up for me so that I could post these two renderings together.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3553291866_31160f5be5_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3553291866_31160f5be5_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3281159038_26cedab022_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3281159038_26cedab022_o.jpg

I wish "Lynx" had been for real. Remember that project? It looked so damn good on paper.

That original OBP design was pretty smart-looking, agreed.

I wish "Lynx" had been for real. Remember that project? It looked so damn good on paper.

That original OBP design was pretty smart-looking, agreed.

I could never forget Lynx. It looked so futuristic to me. It would have indeed been a city within a city.

One of the most desirable parcels in Miami with FAA clearance over 1000 feet will be..... a parking garage and supermarket. No mention of Met Square by the way.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/100610/story1.shtml

Scaled-down Met 3 downtown project revived


By Yudislaidy Fernandez

After putting downtown retail and residential project Met 3 on hold, MDM Development Group is reviving and retooling the project with plans to begin construction first quarter 2011.
The development group moves forward with a scaled-down version that seeks to meet two downtown needs: a supermarket and more parking.
Met 3's first phase is to encompass a 40,000-square-foot supermarket and 2,000-space garage, said Tim Weller, MDM vice president.
Instead of a condominium, the second phase is to include an extended-stay hotel, he said, which would add to Brickell's growing hotel inventory.
Met 3, at 200 SE Third Ave., is the missing piece of a conceived $1 billion Metropolitan Miami complex rising just over the Brickell Bridge.
Originally, Met 3 was to break ground in the first quarter of last year and would have included a Whole Foods Market. That January, the Texas-based natural and organic grocery chain pulled out after signing a lease more than two years prior.
But MDM hopes to bring the grocer back, Mr. Weller said.
"That's our goal. Our intention is to have Whole Foods," he said, adding "we are actively working on that."
Negotiations could be under way, but Whole Foods didn't confirm a store opening at Met 3, spokesman Liz Burkhart said. With 290 locations, she said, Whole Foods does have plans to continue growing rapidly.
International law firm Greenberg Traurig, which is leasing six floors at Met 2, considered the Met 3 development when selecting this building over competing new office towers.
"The amenities existing and proposed were very attractive for us," said Rick Giusto, co-managing shareholder of Greenberg Traurig's Miami office. "At the time we entered efforts to lease, Met 3 had slated Whole Foods to go in that space. That was very attractive for our employees, keeping consistent with affordable and healthy living."
Aside from the supermarket and garage, initial plans for Met 3 called for a fitness center that has now been scratched. So have designs for a 74-story residential component.
Mr. Weller wouldn't comment on the project's financing.
After more than six years of designing and building, the envisioned Metropolitan Miami complex is coming together.
The 447-unit Met 1 condominium is occupied with new residents and home to Chophouse Miami on the ground floor. Met 2 is nearing completion, with office tenants expected to move in starting in July and the hotel to open in October.
Met 3's amenities are to benefit not only residents, office tenants and hotel guests of nearby Met 1 and Met 2, Mr. Weller said, but serve the local community. Downtown's business and residential neighborhoods don't have a supermarket.
"It's a great service to the downtown area, which has been lacking something like this forever," he said.
A few years ago, all these new projects were drawings, but now many are finally a reality, Mr. Weller said, and those downtown condos are filling up.
The Met 3 project, he said, offers an "opportunity to take another look at the reality and viability of sustaining any retail in downtown."

"Instead of a condominium, the second phase is to include an extended-stay hotel, he said, which would add to Brickell's growing hotel inventory."

Is anybody able to find any specs on this yet?

One of the most desirable parcels in Miami with FAA clearance over 1000 feet will be..... a parking garage and supermarket. No mention of Met Square by the way.


Seemed inevitable something like this would happen, unfortunately, since it was obvious a long time ago Met3 would never rise.

Still, I would have rather had such a prime location sold or sit vacant for awhile in the hopes that something truly memorable would rise there.

And, hey, a supermarket is great but that was SUPPOSED to be part of this whole deal all along...not where a tall tower was once slated.

But we still don't know what the hotel component is supposed to look like.

But we still don't know what the hotel component is supposed to look like.

I
m not expecting anything grand. It will probably be so small, especially compared to the surrounding buildings. What a shame. Like Spell says, they should of just held out until a big tower would serve purpose. The rush to live in downtown dosen't have good consequences across the board. Many renters moving in has created a frenzy with these developers that have been waiting some time now. So they are going to build something to cater to them and make money now instead of wait, hence a supermarket and parking garage. I remember there was talk about building the Whole Foods in a way where they could then build the tower some time in the future. I would hope they do it in a way where the land is flexible to do such a thing.

But we still don't know what the hotel component is supposed to look like.

That they are building a 2000 space garage, which is larger than the original Met 3 garage, could indicate that the hotel component will be sizable.

2000 spaces seems like an awful lot of parking... that must be a misprint?

2000 spaces seems like an awful lot of parking... that must be a misprint?

Is it going to be open to the public? Maybe they are looking to get revenue from parking? Could also be a misprint.

Well this really sucks! Any who, a long time ago... they did tell me that they would build a garage for residents and public use/METSquare in the beginning. However, they would construct it in a way, as they did with Mary Brickell village, to be able to continue to construct a high rise tower when it becomes more profitable to do so. Now, that was told to me, by the office manager at Met Miami a while ago. Honestly, I highly doubt they could be that idiotic and let that parcel go to waste like that. I refuse to believe that they would do that.LOL. And METSquare has to be built. That is the corning stone of the whole project and the real beginning of the downtown life revitalization.

Instead of just waiting until the market improves and the residential and/or office is in demand again, they're opting to make money now, instead of looking ahead and the real potential of that site. That site could not be in a more central location to everything in the heart of Downtown.

It's close to Metromover stations, next to I-95, neighbors numerous iconic buildings, heart of the city, etc., and all they can come up with is a parking garage with ground floor retail? How original. The hotel they mention is just a maybe if the market calls for it, and I imagine their focus now is just the garage and the supermarket.

Even if they were to build this garage to sustain a high-rise later, think of its neighbor, the Wachovia Financial Center, its garage was built to sustain a skyscraper, and 26 years later, it's still just a garage.

2000 spaces seems like an awful lot of parking... that must be a misprint?

The Wachovia garage is 1,150 spaces, to gain perspective the Lucky St. garage at the Hard Rock is 2,300 spaces. The developer must feel there is enough demand to keep the garage full.

But is a foundation capable of supporting a very tall building still in the plans? The project manager for Met2 says - no, but then, it's not his project.

Instead of just waiting until the market improves and the residential and/or office is in demand again, they're opting to make money now, instead of looking ahead and the real potential of that site. That site could not be in a more central location to everything in the heart of Downtown.

It's close to Metromover stations, next to I-95, neighbors numerous iconic buildings, heart of the city, etc., and all they can come up with is a parking garage with ground floor retail? How original. The hotel they mention is just a maybe if the market calls for it, and I imagine their focus now is just the garage and the supermarket.

Even if they were to build this garage to sustain a high-rise later, think of its neighbor, the Wachovia Financial Center, its garage was built to sustain a skyscraper, and 26 years later, it's still just a garage.

Yes the garage for the former Southeast Bank garage was built to accomadate a future office tower on top of it but as you said here we are 26 years later and nada.
This is such disappointing news.

I expect this sort of thing out of Tampa, not Miami.

This is a bad location for a supermarket -- this belongs further over on Flagler, or in Brickell.

^^Or nowhere. How about what they originally planned or something better for that piece of realty.

Yes the garage for the former Southeast Bank garage was built to accomadate a future office tower on top of it but as you said here we are 26 years later and nada.
This is such disappointing news.

But if they build a garage with a foundation capable of supporting a very tall tower, then there is always a chance that we might still see a respectable building worthy of that site. If a foundation is laid that cannot support a very tall building, then we can just hang it up. We still don't know the specifications on this new design. All we know at this point is that the building will not be Met3 as originally planned, although that plan should have been changed a long time ago.

Does anyone know of any parking garages that were completed which later on had a large highrise added on right on top?

Does anyone know of any parking garages that were completed which later on had a large highrise added on right on top?

Sky Palace (or what ever they are calling it these days) on top of the Mary Brickell Village/Publix parking garage. It hasn't actually happened yet though. The garage portion was completed a few years ago, the tower on top of it is supposed to start within a month (they have been saying that for 6 months now). I think there was a small building in Chicago that was built to withstand more floors on top of it, and during the boom they did actually build a highrise on top of an existing building. I'll have to look it up.

-edit: the building was 565 W Quincy in Chicago, it was a new 11 story addition on top of an existing 7-story building.

http://565quincy.com/_img/gallery/exterior_3.jpg

^^ How about the Blue Cross Blue Shield HQ in Chicago? They just doubled its height.

Before:
http://gct13.com/i/200803-chicago/blue-cross-blue-shield-tower-chicago-6971.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/2490914028_93314db278.jpg

After:
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/CAI/Images/200903/BlueCrossBlueShieldofIllinoisTower-00902-002a.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/3889157588_5449ce812e_o.jpg

:okay:

Good news! I read in an article that Met III was going to be built on and to the side of the garage.

Does anyone know of any parking garages that were completed which later on had a large highrise added on right on top?
Not very large, but Aqua at Allison Island in Miami Beach added several residential floors to an existing (and old) parking structure that used to belong to St. Francis Hospital.
Tibor Hollow who owned the Minoru Yamasaki designed building @ 13th & Brickell put the 600+ unit tower on top of that building's parking, now known as The Club at Brickell Bay (I'm not 100% on this...they may have torn down the 6 story structure and diverted the tenants of the connected building, but I don't think so).
Skyline at Mary Brickell Village was designed to do this.
1200 Brickell has a parking structure ripe for this type of development as well.

Good news! I read in an article that Met III was going to be built on and to the side of the garage.

Nevermind, the article was from March/2006.

^^ LMAO!!! :D

I think this might have been posted somewhere else but thought it would make better sense here.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/100610/story1.shtml

A whole foods and more parking would really be good for this location.

^^ How about the Blue Cross Blue Shield HQ in Chicago? They just doubled its height.


It was originally designed to be expanded to 50 stories.

I think this might have been posted somewhere else but thought it would make better sense here.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/100610/story1.shtml

A whole foods and more parking would really be good for this location.

The link was already posted by Dave8721 on the preceding page, so it certainly makes sense here. I am posting this quote of his here from the Met2: Under Construction thread because it mentions Met3 at the end of the article he copied. At least it's not completely dead. We just don't know for sure what it's going to be yet.

Now officially the Wells Fargo Center. Mentions Met1 & Met3 but no mention at all of Met Square as usual...

http://www.globest.com/news/1696_1696/miami/300683-1.html

Met2 Financial Center Becomes Wells Fargo Center

Last Updated: July 2, 2010 02:55am ET
By Hortense Leon

MIAMI- Wells Fargo & Co. signed a 20-year lease at the brand new, Met2 Financial Center, a 750,000-square-foot downtown office tower. As of Wednesday, the building became the Wells Fargo Center after the bank signed up for roughly 100,000-square feet at the tower. The move will allow it to consolidate its operations in Miami, leaving a hole at the Wachovia Financial Center, its neighbor across the street, as well as the Mellon Financial Center on Brickell Avenue to the south.

The Wells Fargo Center, which just opened with a temporary certificate of occupancy, is the largest contiguous supply of space to be delivered in the Miami office market in 26 years, when the Wachovia Financial Center was completed. Since the beginning of this year, over 1.3 million square feet of new, Class A space has been introduced to the downtown and Brickell Avenue markets. In addition to the Wells Fargo Center, the nearly 600,000-square-foot 1450 Brickell building opened, and a third office building at 600 Brickell, the Brickell Financial Centre, which will have almost 611,000 square feet, is slated to be completed in a little over a year.

With the announcement of the Wells Fargo lease, the former Met2 Financial Center will be a little over 36% leased, says Jack Lowell, vice president at Flagler Real Estate Services, LLC, the leasing agent for the building. Deloitte moved into the tower last weekend, taking two floors, or about 50,000 square feet, he says. The financial services firm has a 12-year lease.

International law firm Greenberg Traurig is expected to move into the Wells Fargo building around October of this year taking five floors, or 128,000 square feet. Two years ago, when the lease was announced, the space was slated to be 150,000 square feet. Meanwhile, there are six other tenant proposals outstanding, says Lowell. Met Miami, which, when complete, will be a five-building complex, is being developed by the Miami-based MDM Development Group and New York-based MetLife.

The battle for office tenants in downtown and Brickell Avenue is fierce. With two new large buildings just finished, and the office vacancy rate for the area roughly 20%, as of May, the signing of each new tenant is a triumph. And there is little, if any, sign of new tenants in the market. Those signed up by the Wells Fargo Center, have been purloined from neighboring buildings. Deloitte was also lured away from the Wachovia Financial Center, while the law firm Bilzin Sumberg, another Wachovia tenant, is moving later this year to 1450 Brickell, which, as of a few weeks ago, was 34% leased.

Adjacent to the Wells Fargo Center, a 357-room J.W. Marriott Marquis Miami and a Hotel Beaux Arts Miami are scheduled for completion in October of this year. The fate of Met3, says Lowell, is yet to be determined. A second condominium tower (a 447-unit luxury condominium is already opened) had been planned, but was scrapped, once the market turned sour, he says.

Does anyone know of any parking garages that were completed which later on had a large highrise added on right on top?

Just a few years ago, 20+ floors of apartments were added on top of a ten story parking garage in Baltimore. The garage was built with the intent that the apartments would be added later, but like all things, it took longer than originally planned.

^^The website (http://www.metropolitanmiami.com/) says it's 74 floors [EDIT: now that I look at the website closer, it actually says both 74 and 76 floors, at different locations in the site. With an average of 75 floors, you're still correct, Chuck.] If you haven't seen the site recently, you should check it out. It has a lot of cool features, including a video (http://www.metropolitanmiami.com/video.php?movie=3sm) with great 3D renderings, and a feature that allows you to view Miami from Met 3 (http://www.metropolitanmiami.com/views/) at different heights. And just in case anyone forgot what Miami's future tallest building is going to look like, then feast your eyes on this:
http://img216.exs.cx/img216/6581/met3miami3dl.jpg

PAUL:), my long time Where are you now Friend:banana:, WOW , the website still is in operation, and the 75 floor tower is still there with the music too, I still see a future tall tower here , and maybe someone will build a 1,000 foot, tower instead of the 826 foot tower , its not over with this 75 story tower till the fat lady sings,. lol, GO MET 3 , still in the website, there's aways a change future out there now with condo sales rising around the American Airlines Arena with our new Miami Heat Player making millions come back to MIAMI !!!! :cheers:

Everyone :grouphug: , This is it :righton: , MET 3 has started, I talked to my special sales lady on friday. Its finally started with the 4 month Foundation, and at 75 floors :happy: and " 866 " feet :happy: high, I was getting upset when she told me it would be at the End Of JUNE !!!, but with a week of preparing the site with the equipment, they have finally started.

Lets do it :rock: :applause: ,

Celebration time for MIAMI's Tallest tower for the next 5 years,
It will be Completed on December, 2010 !!! :dance:

WOW :banana:, 4 YEARS LATER !!!, well my friends:), I'm back from a long Vacation, and Quantum X:) , ( Steve :cheers:) ,my friend, Yes, I did put a recomendation as you being our NEXT MODERATOR:banana:, Congrats my great friend , and iKnow you'll be a great moderator as Toucano:) was 4 years ago, wow, well, here in Tampa Bay, the construction here on tall towers has been halted ,and still waiting to see if anyone else will ever restart Tampa Trump Tower ( TTT ),. just like MET 3's tower in Miami , TTT was supposed to be one of tampa"s tallest towers, , but in the last 2 years the economy is still bad, and the stock market is still dropping just like today,
Again STEVE:) , Quantum X:banana: , my great friend, Congrats on your new Position, and many years to come , that you and I will see MET 3 and ONE Columbus Plaza Tower completed in the next 10 years as Miami's Tallest towers at 1,000 feet ~!!! or more !! , God Bless MIAMI !!!:cheers:

PAUL:), my long time Where are you now Friend:banana:, WOW , the website still is in operation, and the 75 floor tower is still there with the music too, I still see a future tall tower here , and maybe someone will build a 1,000 foot, tower instead of the 826 foot tower , its not over with this 75 story tower till the fat lady sings,. lol, GO MET 3 , still in the website, there's aways a change future out there now with condo sales rising around the American Airlines Arena with our new Miami Heat Player making millions come back to MIAMI !!!! :cheers:

Hey Chuck! Good to see you're still visiting the site. I haven't been posting much lately because there's not much to talk about right now but I still like to come here to see how the new Marlin's stadium and metrorail expansion are going.

Hey Chuck! Good to see you're still visiting the site. I haven't been posting much lately because there's not much to talk about right now but I still like to come here to see how the new Marlin's stadium and metrorail expansion are going.

WOW:banana:, Great Paul:),my old friend, glad to see ya still posting ,too, have you checked out the New Miami MARLINS STADIUM:banana: update on SITE webcam ,I see the new parking garage right there in the webcam is actually started, no more employeees parking there, there are cranes starting construction, on the site in front of the stadium RIGHT there now MY friend Paul, WOW GO MIAMI MARLINS:banana: in SPRING of 2012 !!! ITS a HOME RUN in MIAMI:):cheers: !!! I love it, !!! God Bless THE MIAMI MARLINS !!!:cheers::cheers:

THANKS, CHUCK.:):cheers: TO MANY MORE SKYSCRAPERS IN MIAMI'S FUTURE.

WOW:banana:, Great Paul:),my old friend, glad to see ya still posting ,too, have you checked out the New Miami MARLINS STADIUM:banana: update on SITE webcam ,I see the new parking garage right there in the webcam is actually started, no more employeees parking there, there are cranes starting construction, on the site in front of the stadium RIGHT there now MY friend Paul, WOW GO MIAMI MARLINS:banana: in SPRING of 2012 !!! ITS a HOME RUN in MIAMI:):cheers: !!! I love it, !!! God Bless THE MIAMI MARLINS !!!:cheers::cheers:

Hey there emoticon man! More skyscrapers are coming now to house all of Lebron's misstresses. :lol:

WOW:banana:, Great Paul:),my old friend, glad to see ya still posting ,too, have you checked out the New Miami MARLINS STADIUM:banana: update on SITE webcam ,I see the new parking garage right there in the webcam is actually started, no more employeees parking there, there are cranes starting construction, on the site in front of the stadium RIGHT there now MY friend Paul, WOW GO MIAMI MARLINS:banana: in SPRING of 2012 !!! ITS a HOME RUN in MIAMI:):cheers: !!! I love it, !!! God Bless THE MIAMI MARLINS !!!:cheers::cheers:

I didn't know there was a webcam so I googled it and found it here (http://mlb.mlb.com/fla/ballpark/webcam.jsp). Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't know there was a webcam so I googled it and found it here (http://mlb.mlb.com/fla/ballpark/webcam.jsp). Thanks for the heads up.

Anytime PAUL:), my good friend:banana:, thats why I'm still here:lol:, I love all my Friendly Family Friends of MIAMI:banana: !!! ,. May God bless you ALL !!! :cheers:


P.S. Paul and everyone,Check out the NEW construction , just started on the parking garage ,there in thr front of the WEBCAM< where the employeees used to park there just last month,.,. !!!!

idk if this was posted or not but, it says met 3 will start early 2011


http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/100610/story1.shtml

Interesting...how many floors is supposed to have now?

Seriously the MDM Group has had an impact on downtown Miami but these plans for the MET 3 site aren't even worthy. It is a premier site downtown worthy of class A office building or residential tower that can take advantage of height.
A garage and a supermarket is suited for the suburbs and if they can't build a 74 story building then sell the lot to someone who can make use of it.

^^THAT'S RIGHT!!!
lets put out demonstration of how bad we want tall skyscrapers! lol

Seriously the MDM Group has had an impact on downtown Miami but these plans for the MET 3 site aren't even worthy. It is a premier site downtown worthy of class A office building or residential tower that can take advantage of height.
A garage and a supermarket is suited for the suburbs and if they can't build a 74 story building then sell the lot to someone who can make use of it.

Agreed, Bob.

I don't think we should ever get in the "well, it's better than nothing" mindset. I think it sells the city short. This is a prime location that demanded a very significant (tall) structure. The likelihood of something much less substantial there is a disappointment.

Agreed, Bob.

I don't think we should ever get in the "well, it's better than nothing" mindset. I think it sells the city short. This is a prime location that demanded a very significant (tall) structure. The likelihood of something much less substantial there is a disappointment.

So I'm really curious as to exactly what is going to be built in that space. I see a lot of workers down there on a daily basis, although I'm not sure what they're doing exactly. As Bob pointed out, it seems a shame to just build a parking/retail complex in a space that is perfectly suited for an amazing and iconic looking skyscraper (preferably a mixed use commercial/residential one). I did notice that the advertising around the construction site points towards a 74 storey skyscraper.

Still, this area does need more of a retail presence, although a Whole Foods would not be my choice, unless they reduce their prices a little so as to not make a gallon of milk cost twice the price of a gallon of gas.

Seriously the MDM Group has had an impact on downtown Miami but these plans for the MET 3 site aren't even worthy. It is a premier site downtown worthy of class A office building or residential tower that can take advantage of height.
A garage and a supermarket is suited for the suburbs and if they can't build a 74 story building then sell the lot to someone who can make use of it.

Agreed, Bob.

I don't think we should ever get in the "well, it's better than nothing" mindset. I think it sells the city short. This is a prime location that demanded a very significant (tall) structure. The likelihood of something much less substantial there is a disappointment.

So I'm really curious as to exactly what is going to be built in that space. I see a lot of workers down there on a daily basis, although I'm not sure what they're doing exactly. As Bob pointed out, it seems a shame to just build a parking/retail complex in a space that is perfectly suited for an amazing and iconic looking skyscraper (preferably a mixed use commercial/residential one). I did notice that the advertising around the construction site points towards a 74 storey skyscraper.

Still, this area does need more of a retail presence, although a Whole Foods would not be my choice, unless they reduce their prices a little so as to not make a gallon of milk cost twice the price of a gallon of gas.

:ohno:

Of course I'd like to see more as well but many people here seem to think that development isn't a private business and developers should be building whats best for the city even if they lose money. Its around $250 psf to build condos right now and that's not including the cost for land. If you look at the cost that current condos are selling that its less than that. That's why there are so many bulk deals going on because these buyers know that regardless of what happens they know that nothing can be built in the foreseeable future at the same cost. And on top of that lenders know this and therefore aren't going to lend anyone the money. So builders aren't going to be building new units anytime soon. Now a few builders like Swire (which I mentioned in the CitiCentre thread) actually focus on buying properties in these environments and holding them for long periods of time in order to make their profits. But large developers with that amount of capital are few and far between. Most developers build with other people's money (if they're smart).

So you have developers that own land which they owe taxes on and may even have loan payments for. Many of which may not have the capital to hold out for 15 - 20 years when things get better. And they can't simply sell the land because no one want's it unless they take even more loses. So they are figuring out what they can put on the land that adds enough value for them to sell and at least break even and hopefully make a profit. Obviously they can't put condos or office because current prices don't even cover the cost to build it.

So if they can build a retail/parking complex that adds additional needed parking and a badly needed grocery store then you should consider it a plus. If this spot is great for something better in 20 years then they can simply tear it down and build a skyscraper there later.

Downtown right now has too much residential and office inventory. But more retail is needed and they definitely need a grocery store. You may not want a Whole Foods but it makes great economic sense. A whole food would service most of the people in the area who obviously can afford it from the rent prices and it would also get business from people in Brickell who want more selection than the 3 Publix location that are already there.

Moving forward with this project without a condo/office tower is great for downtown. The alternative would be that it sits empty for 20 years until prices finally justify a larger tower.

:ohno:

Of course I'd like to see more as well but many people here seem to think that development isn't a private business and developers should be building whats best for the city even if they lose money. Its around $250 psf to build condos right now and that's not including the cost for land. If you look at the cost that current condos are selling that its less than that. That's why there are so many bulk deals going on because these buyers know that regardless of what happens they know that nothing can be built in the foreseeable future at the same cost. And on top of that lenders know this and therefore aren't going to lend anyone the money. So builders aren't going to be building new units anytime soon. Now a few builders like Swire (which I mentioned in the CitiCentre thread) actually focus on buying properties in these environments and holding them for long periods of time in order to make their profits. But large developers with that amount of capital are few and far between. Most developers build with other people's money (if they're smart).

So you have developers that own land which they owe taxes on and may even have loan payments for. Many of which may not have the capital to hold out for 15 - 20 years when things get better. And they can't simply sell the land because no one want's it unless they take even more loses. So they are figuring out what they can put on the land that adds enough value for them to sell and at least break even and hopefully make a profit. Obviously they can't put condos or office because current prices don't even cover the cost to build it.

So if they can build a retail/parking complex that adds additional needed parking and a badly needed grocery store then you should consider it a plus. If this spot is great for something better in 20 years then they can simply tear it down and build a skyscraper there later.

Downtown right now has too much residential and office inventory. But more retail is needed and they definitely need a grocery store. You may not want a Whole Foods but it makes great economic sense. A whole food would service most of the people in the area who obviously can afford it from the rent prices and it would also get business from people in Brickell who want more selection than the 3 Publix location that are already there.

Moving forward with this project without a condo/office tower is great for downtown. The alternative would be that it sits empty for 20 years until prices finally justify a larger tower.

Hey Gixxer,

I just said it was a shame that an iconic skyscraper isn't going to be built for now on that particular plot of land, which was 100% ideal for it. I realize that developers are in business to make money and in this economic day and age, are in no way, shape or form going to build a 74 storey skyscraper on pure speculation. It is a shame though, given that location's close proximity to both I-95 and the Metromover.

It's not that I don't want a Whole Foods there and a Whole Foods in that location would probably do well. I would actually like to see a Borders or a Barnes & Nobles in Downtown Miami, so perhaps that particular site could incorporate both? Downtown is also screaming for a movie theater, but that wouldn't really work in this particular space.

Hey Gixxer,

I just said it was a shame that an iconic skyscraper isn't going to be built for now on that particular plot of land, which was 100% ideal for it. I realize that developers are in business to make money and in this economic day and age, are in no way, shape or form going to build a 74 storey skyscraper on pure speculation. It is a shame though, given that location's close proximity to both I-95 and the Metromover.

I was responding the the sentiment that its a "shame" that they build something on this lot other than a skyscraper. It's not a "shame" its a benefit. We actually have MORE iconic skyscrapers than we should right now. That's why many of them are selling condo or office space below the cost it would take to build similar product. The developers got greedy and took extra risk and loss a lot of money and now we benefit at their expense. We built double the amount of condos in the last 10 years than we did over the previous 40 years. But many people here sound like greedy kids saying more, more, more. Be glad that we have the buildings we have and now let the market go out and build the supporting pieces to make the entire area better.

Look at Bobdreamz's comment:

"A garage and a supermarket is suited for the suburbs and if they can't build a 74 story building then sell the lot to someone who can make use of it."

So we need a garage and supermarket and it could be built at a profit but instead the owner of this land should sell the land to someone else. For what???? The building costs are roughly the same for everyone. No one is going to build office or residential space at a loss. Not to mention that they aren't (and can't) build it in the same manner that would in the suburbs. It would be lined with retail to create better walkable streets which would be a clear benefit to downtown.

Or look at spellbound's comment again:

"I don't think we should ever get in the "well, it's better than nothing" mindset. I think it sells the city short. This is a prime location that demanded a very significant (tall) structure. The likelihood of something much less substantial there is a disappointment."

So basically every lost that doesn't have a tall skyscraper is a disappointment??? Why is that. There isn't demand for a tall skyscraper so no one is building a tall skyscraper. If in the future there is demand for one they will simply build one. And putting something that is needed there in the meantime that benefits the residents is not a disappointment. I don't think the the people shopping there are going to say "It's really great that there is a new grocery store here that is convenient to me but I'm really disappointed that there isn't empty condos or office space above this grocery store while I shop."

It's like people here want to simply skip steps B and C and go directly from point A to point D.

It's not that I don't want a Whole Foods there and a Whole Foods in that location would probably do well. I would actually like to see a Borders or a Barnes & Nobles in Downtown Miami, so perhaps that particular site could incorporate both? Downtown is also screaming for a movie theater, but that wouldn't really work in this particular space.

I would like to a B&N and a movie theater downtown as well. Rest assured developers are doing feasibility studies to bring these things in a way they think is profitable. The main issue right now is financing. As more and more people move downtown it becomes more and more feasible. We obviously need ALL these things downtown. The developer of this lot has identified one of those needs as being feasible on this lot. Given the current economic and lending climate, it would be great if they can build it.

I
Or look at spellbound's comment again:

"I don't think we should ever get in the "well, it's better than nothing" mindset. I think it sells the city short. This is a prime location that demanded a very significant (tall) structure. The likelihood of something much less substantial there is a disappointment."

So basically every lost that doesn't have a tall skyscraper is a disappointment???

Not even close to what I was saying. It's a specific reference to a specific site---not a generality such as "every lost that doesn't have a tall skyscraper is a disappointment." Those are your words, not mine, and in fact not my opinion at all.

The economic climate is well-known, as is the inability of developers to simply erect things for which no true demand really exists. Not exactly revelations. I've been saying the same things here for years. But do I find it personally disappointing that a more significant building will not rise on this prime piece of real-estate? Yes. Even with all the "whys" that is the case being fully understood.

Are you arguing I shouldn't even have that opinion??

But do I find it personally disappointing that a more significant building will not rise on this prime piece of real-estate? Yes. Even with all the "whys" that is the case being fully understood.

Are you arguing I shouldn't even have that opinion??

I'm not going to argue that anyone should have any opinion. If you win $200m in the lottery and you're disappointed that you didn't win $300 million who am I to tell you how you should feel. I'm just pointing out the absurdity in it. We have MORE skyscrapers than the market can support.

In your disappointment is an inherent desire for something "more substantial" just for the sake of it being "more substantial". Skyscrapers are great because they allow for more density. But what's the point of having a skyscraper if you don't currently need more density? You specifically stated that this lot DEMANDS and tall structure, but now you say no demand exists. What demand are you talking about? It would only serve to hurt the viability of other buildings and decrease the chances of developers getting lending for what is actually needed. Since there isn't a need for anymore office or residential space but you still want more residential an office space its clear you want a skyscraper for the aesthetic qualities only.

And that is understandable considering were on a forum about skyscrapers. But building something less substantial on this lot is by no means selling the city short and instead exactly what should be done. Especially considering it will be built under the new zoning codes. And that's my main disagreement. You can have what ever opinion you like, but there shouldn't and won't be something more substantial built on that lot for a long time and there should and will be something built that is smaller and more in line with what is needed.

Not even close to what I was saying. It's a specific reference to a specific site---not a generality such as "every lost that doesn't have a tall skyscraper is a disappointment." Those are your words, not mine, and in fact not my opinion at all.

You're main reason that you are stating that you are disappointed that a tall skyscraper isn't being built here is that it is a PRIME lot. So it stands to reason that if you're only disappointed that a skyscraper isn't built on this lot is because it's a prime lot that one would also reason that you would be disappointed at other prime lots without skyscrapers. If that's not the case then I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your view.

What makes this lot different than other prime lots downtown?

the problem isnt because we have to many skyscrapers, the problem is inflation in the SF area is rampant and making everything unaffordable.

prices need to go lower to match the wage of an average south Florida worker not rich vacationers


I'm not going to argue that anyone should have any opinion. If you win $200m in the lottery and you're disappointed that you didn't win $300 million who am I to tell you how you should feel. I'm just pointing out the absurdity in it. We have MORE skyscrapers than the market can support.

In your disappointment is an inherent desire for something "more substantial" just for the sake of it being "more substantial". Skyscrapers are great because they allow for more density. But what's the point of having a skyscraper if you don't currently need more density? You specifically stated that this lot DEMANDS and tall structure, but now you say no demand exists. What demand are you talking about? It would only serve to hurt the viability of other buildings and decrease the chances of developers getting lending for what is actually needed. Since there isn't a need for anymore office or residential space but you still want more residential an office space its clear you want a skyscraper for the aesthetic qualities only.

And that is understandable considering were on a forum about skyscrapers. But building something less substantial on this lot is by no means selling the city short and instead exactly what should be done. Especially considering it will be built under the new zoning codes. And that's my main disagreement. You can have what ever opinion you like, but there shouldn't and won't be something more substantial built on that lot for a long time and there should and will be something built that is smaller and more in line with what is needed.



You're main reason that you are stating that you are disappointed that a tall skyscraper isn't being built here is that it is a PRIME lot. So it stands to reason that if you're only disappointed that a skyscraper isn't built on this lot is because it's a prime lot that one would also reason that you would be disappointed at other prime lots without skyscrapers. If that's not the case then I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your view.

What makes this lot different than other prime lots downtown?

What makes this lot different than other prime lots downtown?

It's at the center of downtown, and the "city" has wanted somebody to develop those blocks for at least 30 years already. Many feel that the Met3 lot is where an iconic tower for Miami should go, though again, it has turned out to be not the time. If it had been planned as a mixed-use structure from the beginning (offices, condos, hotel, retail), it might have stood a real chance.

Is Met III (Wells Fargo Center) complete?

Is Met III (Wells Fargo Center) complete?

Are you having premonitions? Anyway, it should be Wells Fargo Center North Tower. :):cheers:

Are you having premonitions? Anyway, it should be Wells Fargo Center North Tower. :):cheers:

Lol, I didn't even notice I called it III. Yea I meant II. It sure would be nice if they constructed III.

I'm not going to argue that anyone should have any opinion. If you win $200m in the lottery and you're disappointed that you didn't win $300 million who am I to tell you how you should feel. I'm just pointing out the absurdity in it. We have MORE skyscrapers than the market can support.

In your disappointment is an inherent desire for something "more substantial" just for the sake of it being "more substantial". Skyscrapers are great because they allow for more density. But what's the point of having a skyscraper if you don't currently need more density? You specifically stated that this lot DEMANDS and tall structure, but now you say no demand exists. What demand are you talking about? It would only serve to hurt the viability of other buildings and decrease the chances of developers getting lending for what is actually needed. Since there isn't a need for anymore office or residential space but you still want more residential an office space its clear you want a skyscraper for the aesthetic qualities only.

And that is understandable considering were on a forum about skyscrapers. But building something less substantial on this lot is by no means selling the city short and instead exactly what should be done. Especially considering it will be built under the new zoning codes. And that's my main disagreement. You can have what ever opinion you like, but there shouldn't and won't be something more substantial built on that lot for a long time and there should and will be something built that is smaller and more in line with what is needed.



You're main reason that you are stating that you are disappointed that a tall skyscraper isn't being built here is that it is a PRIME lot. So it stands to reason that if you're only disappointed that a skyscraper isn't built on this lot is because it's a prime lot that one would also reason that you would be disappointed at other prime lots without skyscrapers. If that's not the case then I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your view.

What makes this lot different than other prime lots downtown?

I agree with both of your arguments..However there are many other old dilapidated structures in the vicinity of the MET III area that could be knocked down and used for the very same purpose. That way you kill two birds with one stone, basically maintain the current site for a future skyscraper and at the same time provide the additional retail space at a separate, nearby location (this is without the added benefit of knocking down the old structure).

If they build the supermarket and parking lot, is it possible for them to decide in the future to build the condos on top of it?

I've seen that kind of technology available in Japan.

[Just trying to keep my hopes up]
:(

I just heard from a source Whole Foods signed lease at Met III.

I was recently told by a source that Met Square will start after Met III...

They need to construct Met Square before Met III. That will draw a lot to downtown. Met square needs to be built first and soon, in my opinion.

Wednesday, October 6, 2010, 2:43pm EDT
Downtown Miami Whole Foods project back on
SOUTH FLORIDA BUSINESS JOURNAL - BY Oscar Pedro Musibay


First, downtown Miami had no supermarkets. Now, it’s got two on the horizon: a Publix and a Whole Foods Market.

MDM Development Group is in final negotiations to re-sign Whole Foods to space in its Metropolitan Miami mixed-use project, just south of Flagler Street.

Tim Weller, MDM’s VP of development, told the Business Journal the developer is in final talks with the Austin, Texas-based company to open a 35,000-square-foot store at the base of its Met 3 project.

Met 3 consists of a 1,400-space, 10-level parking garage, and Whole Foods would be located on the ground floor. The garage will act as a pedestal for future development.

“Our plan is to start work in the first quarter of 2011 and deliver it in 2013,” Weller said.

On Tuesday, the Business Journal reported that Stiles Corp. plans to complete a 49,00- square-foot Publix at 18th Street and Biscayne Boulevard.

Jay Caplin of Steelbridge Capital said the size of the garage speaks to the developer’s interest in tapping into parking demand that goes beyond those drivers who will visit the Whole Foods. Unless MDM gets dedicated leases for the parking space, funding for the project will require “heavy equity.”

In December 2008, the Business Journal broke the story that Whole Foods had pulled back from its plan to open at the base of the garage.
The Metropolitan Miami project includes condominiums, a pair of hotels and an office high-rise.

The project, located just north of the Miami River, recently made headlines after some unpermitted roadwork created controversy with nearby stakeholders.

MDM Development is working to resolve those issues.
http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/10/04/daily37.html

Yuck. 10 level parking garage in a prime spot. Horrible. even if they do build the tower, it will be so far detached from the street, it might as well be non existent to those below..

Question: how does Miami21 come in to play with this proposal? are there any special requirements that the developer would have to meet in order to get a "decent" design out of this?

That is good news, but hardly unexpected. Whole Foods and Wild Oats were going through some serious "merging pains", when they found the out in their lease. A lot of downtown business people figured that they would resign or a similar company would take over that location. There are just too many economic factors that favor a grocer in that location.

Its not the end of the world. Look at Mary Brickell Village, the parking garage was built first and now the developer is getting ready to start construction on the Skyline Condo. Maybe an ever better tower than Met III will get built.

^^ i hope they hear you...

Yuck. 10 level parking garage in a prime spot. Horrible. even if they do build the tower, it will be so far detached from the street, it might as well be non existent to those below..

I couldn't agree with you more! Why even build the thing if there isn't going to be a tower for quite sometime? All one has to do is look at the garage behind the Wachovia tower as an example. That garage was built with the intent of putting up another skyscraper on top of it but it never materialized.

I was told several years ago by a sales lady that part of the agreement with the city to build Met Square was that the the parking garage at Met 3 needed to be completed in order to comply with the required parking for the retail project at Met Square. If you look at the model for Met Square, you don't see a parking structure as part of the project. This may be the plan.

I was told several years ago by a sales lady that part of the agreement with the city to build Met Square was that the the parking garage at Met 3 needed to be completed in order to comply with the required parking for the retail project at Met Square. If you look at the model for Met Square, you don't see a parking structure as part of the project. This may be the plan.

That makes sense!!!