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Zoo may take bite out of 905 visitors
Jul. 8, 2006. 01:00 AM
PAUL MOLONEY
CITY HALL BUREAU

Visiting the Toronto Zoo?
Then bring your driver's licence, if you're from Toronto — or be prepared to pay the higher admission fee being considered for out-of-towners.
Toronto Councillor Joe Mihevc, who came up with the two-tiered admissions proposal, argues Toronto residents have already paid for the zoo through their property taxes, and deserve a break on admission. "The system I'm proposing recognizes that 416 folks already pay through their property taxes," Mihevc said yesterday. "Residents of Toronto are paying twice; they pay through their admission and they also pay through their property taxes."
But that leaves residents of the 905 and beyond faced with the prospect of paying higher fees to see the elephants, lions, kangaroos and other animals at the deficit-saddled wildlife park.
And that doesn't sit well with regional politicians.
"You've got to be kidding me," said Roger Anderson, chair of Durham Region, when told of the plan.
"If they want to punish people for visiting Toronto, I guess they can.
"They'll have to explain it to the rest of the province."
The Toronto Zoo is expected to lose $11.8 million this year, up from the $11.3 million it lost last year. And, with the city footing the bill, Toronto's budget committee was only too ready to adopt Mihevc's motion that the zoo board — which consists entirely of city councillors — look into the two-tiered admissions proposal.
"We're requesting that they consider it," said Councillor David Soknacki, budget committee chair. "The goal is to get the revenue numbers up and recover some of the city's investment."
The zoo will examine the idea and file a report, said Robin Hale, the zoo's chief operating officer.
"This would be a new thing and we'd have to take a look at the feasibility," Hale said. "It all comes down to the perception of the value for what you pay. We have to make sure we keep the zoo affordable and good value for the money."If the scheme passes, city residents — who make up about a quarter of the zoo's visitors now — could pay a couple of dollars less than out-of-town visitors to the zoo, on Toronto's northeastern edge.
The zoo now charges $19 for adults and youths; under the two-tier scheme prices might rise to $21 for adults who can't prove they live here.
But that's a path fraught with danger, warned Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker, who sits on the zoo's board.
"In an attempt to raise more money, we could actually lose money," De Baeremaeker cautioned. "I can see someone on the north side of Steeles saying, `What, you want to charge me extra? I'm going to go to Canada's Wonderland.
`Screw you, Toronto.'"
Canada's Wonderland, along with the zoo's other major competitors — Marineland, the CN Tower, African Lion Safari, Ontario Place, Wild Water Kingdom, and the Ontario Science Centre — all have a one-tier admissions price.
But, in the United States, local residents pay lower prices to visit the Milwaukee County Zoo and some Chicago museums, including the Field Museum. And admission to the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park is cheaper for people with Southern California zip codes.
Councillor Norm Kelly, a zoo board member, said he encountered two-tier pricing on a visit to Beijing's Forbidden City.
"There was one price for the Chinese and another price for everybody else," Kelly said.
"Frankly I didn't like it. I'm not a fan of that system and I wouldn't support it here."

"Toronto Councillor Joe Mihevc".
Joe Who?

Double post. :runaway:

We are always subsidizing 905ers on the road, and at the zoo. Great plan. Let's do it. And let's put tolls on the Gardiner and DVP. Screw'em! :runaway:

We are always subsidizing 905ers on the road, and at the zoo. Great plan. Let's do it. And let's put tolls on the Gardiner and DVP. Screw'em! :runaway:

LOL! I read that fast and thought you were suggesting putting out trolls on the Gardiner and the DVD. I would totally be in favour of that and would be happy to supply a list of trolls I would enjoy seeing scrambling across the Gardiner! :cheers: such a pleasant mental image....

The Chinese model is bad because it is a racist model. The system being proposed for the Zoo is strictly decided by location of residency and taxation patterns, which, quite frankly, is perfectly fare/fair. Anybody that complains about this being unjust can be rightfully told to STFU, because they are getting a free ride compared to us (as always, and the highways should be tolled for anybody with a non-Toronto licence plate). However, as a preventative measure, the similar should be done with other competing attractions IMO. Canada's Wonderland wouldn't fall under this because it is private and not a tax-funded project, but Sci Cen, Ont Pl, etc, are game, if I'm not mistaken.

How is it racist? I think what Norm Kelly meant was that there was a price for people who live in the country, and one for those who don't. You'll find this in other places, like Paris.

What a brilliantly fucking stupid idea.

$19.00 - Torontonians
$21.00 - Non-Torontonians

but wait, no one suggested this:

$19.00 - Non-Torontonians
$17.00 - Torontonians

After all, everyone expects every good Toronto citizen to take it up the ass and do the 2+ hour TTC bus ride there, better give them a break, eh?

Seriously, I would have thought that the Zoo recieved some provincial funding (after all, it's not like there are other zoo alternatives). Ontario funding would make the whole point moot. Thats the tree they should be barking up.

Honestly, if I planned a trip to the zoo and saw two-tier pricing, I'd tell admissions to fuck off, turn around and leave. What an insult. Maybe I'll bring proof that I've previously lived in Toronto for over 8 years and have already paid my share of taxes. But I guess no one's thought of that.

The Chinese model is bad because it is a racist model. The system being proposed for the Zoo is strictly decided by location of residency and taxation patterns, which, quite frankly, is perfectly fare/fair. Anybody that complains about this being unjust can be rightfully told to STFU, because they are getting a free ride compared to us (as always, and the highways should be tolled for anybody with a non-Toronto licence plate). However, as a preventative measure, the similar should be done with other competing attractions IMO. Canada's Wonderland wouldn't fall under this because it is private and not a tax-funded project, but Sci Cen, Ont Pl, etc, are game, if I'm not mistaken.

Uh, except that Canada's Wonderland isn't even in Toronto to begin with, and that Ontario Place was built with Provincial money, and that the Ontario Science Centre is funded by the Province. As for the 'highways', anything with the number '4' at the begining is a provincial road.

Maybe you should run for councillor. Or STFU.

Hmmm....wouldn't tourist be awfully pissed??

Uh, except that Canada's Wonderland isn't even in Toronto to begin with, and that Ontario Place was built with Provincial money, and that the Ontario Science Centre is funded by the Province. As for the 'highways', anything with the number '4' at the begining is a provincial road.

Maybe you should run for councillor. Or STFU.
First, it doesn't matter if Canada's Wonderland is in Toronto or not, if it is not in Toronto, then the formula is simply reversed (905ers cheap, 416ers taxed). The highways that go to downtown Toronto don't start with a 4, or did you miss that somehow? I see no numbers what so ever in "Don Valley Parkway", "Gardiner Expressway", or "Allen". Hmm, you obviously don't know the roads here, do you? As for ON Pl, it is thanks to subway excavation that it exists, otherwise the land would never be there in the first place, so Toronto made it possible, not too many subways in the 905 to help create land. As we made that land for the province, we would be entitled to a discount.

First, it doesn't matter if Canada's Wonderland is in Toronto or not, if it is not in Toronto, then the formula is simply reversed (905ers cheap, 416ers taxed). The highways that go to downtown Toronto don't start with a 4, or did you miss that somehow? I see no numbers what so ever in "Don Valley Parkway", "Gardiner Expressway", or "Allen". Hmm, you obviously don't know the roads here, do you? As for ON Pl, it is thanks to subway excavation that it exists, otherwise the land would never be there in the first place, so Toronto made it possible, not too many subways in the 905 to help create land. As we made that land for the province, we would be entitled to a discount.

1. We were talking about Toronto, not Vaughan.

2. You said nothing in your post about highways that run downtown, so blame yourself, not me. I can't read your mind, so shove that smug attitude back where it came from.

Trust me, my knowledge of Toronto's roads is more than you can imagine.

Hmmm....wouldn't tourist be awfully pissed??

And that's other point, isn't it? The Zoo is mainly a tourist attraction, and the point of attracting tourists is to cause them to come to Toronto to spend money, not to nickel-and-dime them because some retards can't see the big picture. It's an investment.

Maybe we should just do the Toronto wink or handshake, and get a discount at the gate.

That way, they don't have to post it, and piss the ingorant people (905 and tourists) off.

Considering that 70% of visitors aren't from TO doing a two-tier system will just screw up their revenue flow even more. But regardless it's great to see that a commie like Miller is going to let this kind of thing happen- just another step closer to a two-tier health system and a two-tier public education system.

Just give toronto 1% pt. of the GST!

I hate people that complain about taxes - then they get what they want - low taxes then the fees for everything else skyrockets.

We have to upload costs to the province and the feds!!!!

Considering that 70% of visitors aren't from TO doing a two-tier system will just screw up their revenue flow even more. But regardless it's great to see that a commie like Miller is going to let this kind of thing happen- just another step closer to a two-tier health system and a two-tier public education system.

... Are you dumb or just stupid??? A "commie" supports a single user system - not a two tier system. It's Harper and gang who support two tier systems. It's conservative downloading that has cause the cash crisis in cities.

Read more.

Miller- a commie???!!! Good Grief, now I have seen everything. :hahaha:

What a brilliantly fucking stupid idea.

$19.00 - Torontonians
$21.00 - Non-Torontonians

but wait, no one suggested this:

$19.00 - Non-Torontonians
$17.00 - Torontonians

After all, everyone expects every good Toronto citizen to take it up the ass and do the 2+ hour TTC bus ride there, better give them a break, eh?

Seriously, I would have thought that the Zoo recieved some provincial funding (after all, it's not like there are other zoo alternatives). Ontario funding would make the whole point moot. Thats the tree they should be barking up.

Honestly, if I planned a trip to the zoo and saw two-tier pricing, I'd tell admissions to fuck off, turn around and leave. What an insult. Maybe I'll bring proof that I've previously lived in Toronto for over 8 years and have already paid my share of taxes. But I guess no one's thought of that.

Talk about angry 905ers, lol.

I live within walking distance. I don't think they're going to make it blatently obvious that Toronto residents are getting a break.

... Are you dumb or just stupid??? A "commie" supports a single user system - not a two tier system. It's Harper and gang who support two tier systems. It's conservative downloading that has cause the cash crisis in cities. Read more

I know a commie supports a single user system- that's why I put it would be GREAT to see him support this type of system. I understand the two-tier systems and that it is mainly the right that supports it and my comment was meant to show that Miller, an obvious socialist who typically say that two-tier systems are unfair/irrational, is allowing this two-tier conservative system to happen in a purely leftist region. It's ironic wouldn't you say? You must be "stupid" if you didn't understand.

Btw, if I was stupid wouldn't I also be dumb and vice-versa?

I live within walking distance. I don't think they're going to make it blatently obvious that Toronto residents are getting a break.
While the zoo probably won't make it a big deal, I think you'll hear a lot of talk in the media about this and the divide between 905/416 that the city is causing. I think the best thing the zoo could do is hand out all of those free passes they use to do in schools, like Black Creek and the EX use to do. That would get more people, but the real root of the problem is that there hasn't been a major attraction added since the African Savanna was added. The African pavillion remodelling was nice but it was pretty much the same animals just in new exhibits. And the waterpark extension was pointless in most ways, just trying to attract families with young children, probably the only group that is still coming in herds.

1. We were talking about Toronto, not Vaughan.

2. You said nothing in your post about highways that run downtown, so blame yourself, not me. I can't read your mind, so shove that smug attitude back where it came from.

Trust me, my knowledge of Toronto's roads is more than you can imagine.

Who's being smug? You're the one with the aggressive I'm-better-than-you attitude. It doesn't matter that I didn't specify which highways because you made the mistake of assuming that all highways in Toronto start with a 4 (and therefore don't know the roads), I made no mistake in that respect. You clearly don't read posts anyway, I wrote off Wonderland since it was private, but you still brought it up, obviously not reading what I wrote, and obviously not caring about what region we are talking about (because if you were, you'd have let it lay there written off as private and not applicable). It was brought up in the first place because it was brought up by the original article, but of course, you didn't read that either, otherwise you would know it had relevance being mentioned.
Also, the 400-series highways could be tolled regardless of the highways being provincial, because they all plough into city streets at their offramps (obviously), which could be modified to force tolls (it's tricky, a bit of a pain, but certainly possible), and it wouldn't be against the powers given to us by the province. It may be free to ride from Pickering to Mississauga along 401, but if you get off at Yonge, perhaps it should be another story.

Who's being smug? You're the one with the aggressive I'm-better-than-you attitude.

"Anybody that complains about this being unjust can be rightfully told to STFU"

Those are your words. I don't like to be told to 'shut the fuck up', considering the context.

It doesn't matter that I didn't specify which highways because you made the mistake of assuming that all highways in Toronto start with a 4 (and therefore don't know the roads)

"As for the 'highways', anything with the number '4' at the begining is a provincial road."

Those are my words. It's clear that I didn't make that assumption. Stop misconstruing what I say.

I made no mistake in that respect.

"as always, and the highways should be tolled for anybody with a non-Toronto licence plate"

Those are your exact words. You never specified which, you just said 'the highways'. Don't get mad if your ideas don't come across because you can't express yourself clearly. I could have given you the benefit of the doubt, but it was a pretty dumb post.

"Anybody that complains about this being unjust can be rightfully told to STFU"

Those are your words. I don't like to be told to 'shut the fuck up', considering the context.


If the Zoo isn't in your city, why should you have any say in how it runs? Why should it be at no cost to your district to have its existence, and have the whole bill for keeping running footed by us without giving us a break being the locals that pay for it to be there? I'm sorry, but if you have a problem with that, then you are unreasable, and you should be put in your place, rightfully so. You have no right to complain on those grounds, period, so yeah, I stand by that comment, because you are out of line complaining about it, not me, pretty simple.
"As for the 'highways', anything with the number '4' at the begining is a provincial road."

Those are my words. It's clear that I didn't make that assumption. Stop misconstruing what I say.

Yeah, those are your words, in reply to my comment that the highways should be tolled, and your sentence implies, quite clearly by challenging the statement of tolling the highways, that all Toronto highways are 400-series, as a result of the generalization. It is not my problem if you can't express yourself clearly, but you should know that half of TO's highways are not 400-series, and the city's turf, not the province's... oh wait, you're the kind of person that would complain about the decision being debated here, so you wouldn't know.

"as always, and the highways should be tolled for anybody with a non-Toronto licence plate"

Those are your exact words. You never specified which, you just said 'the highways'. Don't get mad if your ideas don't come across because you can't express yourself clearly. I could have given you the benefit of the doubt, but it was a pretty dumb post.
The only highways that go into Toronto are non-400 actually. 404? Nope, it becomes the DVP to go into Toronto. The 400? Nope, it becomes Black Creek to go into the city. 401? It runs a bit north to actually be considered "going into the city". The 427? Too far west, it just barely east of the Mississauga border. So all highways to Toronto are actually non-400, and my exact words are perfectly in-line, meaning that, as you have consistently demonstrated, you don't know what you are talking about, and therefore try to make yourself feel better through petty personal attacks instead of actually participating in the discussion.

Toronto's northern border is at Steeles.

^^ Yeah that's what I'm saying... 427, 409, 401, 404, and 400 are all technically within Toronto for some of their routes.

If the Zoo isn't in your city, why should you have any say in how it runs? Why should it be at no cost to your district to have its existence, and have the whole bill for keeping running footed by us without giving us a break being the locals that pay for it to be there? I'm sorry, but if you have a problem with that, then you are unreasable, and you should be put in your place, rightfully so. You have no right to complain on those grounds, period, so yeah, I stand by that comment, because you are out of line complaining about it, not me, pretty simple.

Yeah, those are your words, in reply to my comment that the highways should be tolled, and your sentence implies, quite clearly by challenging the statement of tolling the highways, that all Toronto highways are 400-series, as a result of the generalization. It is not my problem if you can't express yourself clearly, but you should know that half of TO's highways are not 400-series, and the city's turf, not the province's... oh wait, you're the kind of person that would complain about the decision being debated here, so you wouldn't know.


The only highways that go into Toronto are non-400 actually. 404? Nope, it becomes the DVP to go into Toronto. The 400? Nope, it becomes Black Creek to go into the city. 401? It runs a bit north to actually be considered "going into the city". The 427? Too far west, it just barely east of the Mississauga border. So all highways to Toronto are actually non-400, and my exact words are perfectly in-line, meaning that, as you have consistently demonstrated, you don't know what you are talking about, and therefore try to make yourself feel better through petty personal attacks instead of actually participating in the discussion.

Thanks for confirming your level of intelligence. There's no point in my argueing with you anymore.

^^ Yeah that's what I'm saying... 427, 409, 401, 404, and 400 are all technically within Toronto for some of their routes.
Sure, part of their routes stretch south of Steeles, but that doesn't mean that they go into the city for practical purposes, check the points of access and you will see that they hardly go into the city before another route takes over. Look at the 400: How many offramps south of Steeles are there before it becomes Black Creek (not including Steeles itself, as it is the border, and not including the 401, as that doesn't go off the highway network): 1, at Finch, that's it. Yeah, it really goes into the city with a Finch W access alone. Not really a "Toronto highway", especially when you look at its overall length and how far north it goes, what percentage of the 400 is actually south of Steeles? Insignificant. The same applies to the 404, except it has 2 offrams, an additional 1 immediately north of the 401 and then another at Finch like the 400. Same thing, therefore, these highways do not really go into the city, only barely in the northern fringes. Do you consider yourself anywhere relevant around Finch/400 or Finch/404, unless you happen to live there? The same does not apply for Gardiner or DVP (not as much the DVP until it is south of Bloor), they all go somewhere, somewhere being actually into the city (downtown). And 401? Don't forget it was also known as the Toronto ByPass originally, therefore, it doesn't actually "go into the city" (a lot changes over 50 years, but the roots still have their significance), it was never designed to. Hardly anyone lived near 401 when it was built.
409 is comparibly another bypass on its own, but is sooo short it hardly warrants mention (although it is the only 400-series highway confined within Toronto borders interestingly enough, excluding its terminating offramp into the airport).

Thanks for confirming your level of intelligence. There's no point in my argueing with you anymore.
In otherwords, you don't have anything to say because you can't and are desperate to save face. What else can I expect from a 12-year old.

What's the fee to get in?

I cannot believe I have never been to the Toronto Zoo. Is it worth visiting, as an adult? I enjoyed the zoo in St Louis.

it's one of the best zoo's in the world. well worth the price of admission.

I cannot believe I have never been to the Toronto Zoo. Is it worth visiting, as an adult? I enjoyed the zoo in St Louis.
I've heard that the time to go is actually at night. It's about 5 times as expensive to get in, but that's when the animals actually come alive - they tend to laze around and sleep during the day. You think they like humans? =P. I have not yet ventured a night visit to the Zoo, only the day trips, but I'd still recommend going, age isn't that big a deal, all ages in the group should be fine (bring your sun block though, you can really get hurt).

Sure, part of their routes stretch south of Steeles, but that doesn't mean that they go into the city for practical purposes, check the points of access and you will see that they hardly go into the city before another route takes over. Look at the 400: How many offramps south of Steeles are there before it becomes Black Creek (not including Steeles itself, as it is the border, and not including the 401, as that doesn't go off the highway network): 1, at Finch, that's it. Yeah, it really goes into the city with a Finch W access alone. Not really a "Toronto highway", especially when you look at its overall length and how far north it goes, what percentage of the 400 is actually south of Steeles? Insignificant. The same applies to the 404, except it has 2 offrams, an additional 1 immediately north of the 401 and then another at Finch like the 400. Same thing, therefore, these highways do not really go into the city, only barely in the northern fringes. Do you consider yourself anywhere relevant around Finch/400 or Finch/404, unless you happen to live there? The same does not apply for Gardiner or DVP (not as much the DVP until it is south of Bloor), they all go somewhere, somewhere being actually into the city (downtown). And 401? Don't forget it was also known as the Toronto ByPass originally, therefore, it doesn't actually "go into the city" (a lot changes over 50 years, but the roots still have their significance), it was never designed to. Hardly anyone lived near 401 when it was built.
409 is comparibly another bypass on its own, but is sooo short it hardly warrants mention (although it is the only 400-series highway confined within Toronto borders interestingly enough, excluding its terminating offramp into the airport).


In otherwords, you don't have anything to say because you can't and are desperate to save face. What else can I expect from a 12-year old.

I'm desperate to save face? You've just typed a 400-word essay on highways that are in Toronto, trying to convince us that they somehow don't count when someone refers to the highways in Toronto. I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks 2+2=5.

I'm 28 by the way. I know every corner of Toronto better than most residents of the city, and I know well enough that when someone refers to 'the highways' in Toronto, they probably aren't just referring to the Allen Expressway, the Gardiner and the DVP, or they would have said so. Unless, of course, they're an idiot.