Black triangles are a kind of Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) that have been reportedly observed in the skies since the 1940s (and possibly earlier), to the present day. They have appeared more commonly over cities of the United States, and England, but have been spotted world wide including a mass sighting over St. Petersburg, Russia on February 19, 1997.

Since then, hundreds of observers have reported enormous, totally silent, black triangular craft hovering or slowly cruising at low altitudes over cities and highways, usually at night. Making no attempt to evade detection, the craft are even described by many observers as having some sort of "running lights", either bright white lights or flashing colored lights. These lights usually appear at each corner point of the triangle. Sometimes a red pulsating light can be seen at the center.

These objects are also sometimes known by the names "Big Black Deltas" (BBDs) or "Flying Triangles."

Contents [hide]
1 Reported sightings
1.1 Typical sightings
1.2 Illinois police sighting incident
1.3 Rendlesham Forest incident
1.4 Phoenix lights incident
1.5 The Belgian Air Force report
1.6 Moscow Night Sightings
2 The TR-3A and TR-3B
3 Other theories
4 Black triangles in fiction
5 External links



[edit]
Reported sightings
Unknown to many, triangular-shaped UFOs have been reported since the 1940's. Accounts of flying triangles, wedges, or boomerangs have increased dramatically since the 1990's. The sightings report clearly visible objects over densely populated areas and highways, many over the United States and England, as well as other parts of the world. A geographic distribution of U.S. sightings has been correlated by a currently inactive American-based investigative organization, the National Institute for Discovery Science, which led to a July, 2002 report that suggested that the craft may belong to the U.S. Air Force; however, a subsequent report in August, 2004 by the same organization (NIDS) found that the rash of sightings did not conform to previous deployment of black project aircraft and that the objects' origins and agendas were unknown.

[edit]
Typical sightings

B-2 Spirit stealth bomber.Most black triangle reports indicate that the craft are at least 200 ft (60 m) long and often likened to the dimensions of a typical football field in width. They usually move very slowly or linger hovering in one place in the sky for several minutes. Sometimes they even land on the ground. They typically appear silently, and seemingly "out of nowhere", drifting a few hundred feet or less above the ground. Sometimes the craft are reported to be capable of sudden, very fast acceleration, as are often mentioned in the descriptions of other kinds of UFOs.

Some triangular UFO reports may be sightings of one or more government black projects, which may be under development by the military and contractors as security and surveillance tools. On the other hand, the common observation that these craft appear over populated areas and make no effort to evade detection sheds doubt on any argument that they are an advanced United States military craft under development, like the F-117 Nighthawk or B-2 Spirit stealth aircraft, which were sighted only occasionally during testing over sparsely populated areas of the Southwest, such as Groom Lake (Area 51), and usually at night.

[edit]
Illinois police sighting incident
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On January 5, 2000, beginning shortly after 4:00 am, five on-duty Illinois police officers in separate locations sighted and reported a massive, unidentified triangular aircraft. Two of the five officers reported flight characteristics that do not conform to currently known technologies, as the object appeared to move at incredible speeds without making any sound. Sightings occurred in Highland, Illinois by a civilian who first reported to the local police department and subsequent sightings took place in Lebanon, Summerfield, Shiloh, Millstadt, Dupo and O'Fallon, Illinois. Local Scott Air Force Base public relations office denied any knowledge of the event. The incident was featured in Peter Jennings final ABC television special, "UFOs: Seeing is Believing". The event has been addressed by several U.S. cable television programs and one independent documentary.

This story was also featured in 2005 on a segment of the SciFi Channel paranormal investigation series "Proof Positive" (episode #108). To substantiate that the police officers did in fact witness the same unexplained aircraft, and their reports correlated together, all five were given a lie detector test and asked various questions about the incident. All five officers passed the test and the show gave the story a "proof positive".

[edit]
Rendlesham Forest incident
Triangular craft were reported to have landed during the December 27, 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident near an American air base in Suffolk, England. Military personnel even reported to have approached at least one of the landed craft in the forest and observed it in great detail before it once again took flight. Another craft was observed landing in an open field near the base and then taking off at incredible speed. Between 2002 and 2005, reporter Bryant Gumbel hosted a series of exclusive SciFi Channel documentaries, one of which was entitled, UFO Invasion at Rendlesham, and focused on this incident where he interviewed some of the men involved with the sighting. The documentary toured some of the various scenes and attempted to gather evidence that something landed in the forest.

See Rendlesham Forest Incident for more details.

[edit]
Phoenix lights incident
One of the more famous appearances of these craft was during the event known as the "Phoenix Lights", where multiple unidentified objects, many of them black triangles, were spotted by the residents of Phoenix, Arizona and videotaped by both the local media and residents with camcorders across multiple evenings beginning on Thursday, March 13, 1997. Some lights drifted as low as 1000 feet and moved far too slowly and silently for conventional aircraft. If they were helicopters, they produced no sound. Some of the lights appeared to group up in a giant "V" formation that lingered above the city for several minutes. Many residents reported one triangle to be over a mile wide that drifted slowly over their houses blocking out the stars of the night sky. Other reports indicated the craft were spotted flying away from Phoenix as far away as Las Vegas, Nevada and Los Angeles, California.

An official report made by the Air Force about the incident concluded that the military had been testing flares launched from conventional aircraft during that time. Eyewitnesses confirmed military jets were scrambled from nearby Luke Air Force Base, but instead of launching flares, they were seen chasing after some of the objects.

The next few nights, in an attempt to recreate the incident, local pilots flew prop-planes over the city in a "V" formation, but the sounds of their engines were easily heard. The original lights made no sound. Flares were also deployed above Phoenix. Comparison of the video taken of the lights (which appeared at night) against daytime images of the same scene show that the lights "disappear" at the exact moment they are shown to fall behind a mountain range. The mountains were invisible against the night sky. There were also no reported radar sightings of the objects which is consistent with the flare theory.

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Afterward, as a joke, the mayor of Phoenix, Skip Rimsza, and Arizona's Governor at the time, Fife Symington, appeared before news cameras with a costumed alien being who claimed responsibility for the incident, however, this caused criticism and outrage from many of those who claimed to have witnessed the event as well those in the UFO investigation community who took the event seriously.

[edit]
The Belgian Air Force report
On March 30, 1990, citizens of the city of Ans, Belgium spotted a large black triangular craft that hovered silently over the city for several minutes. Local police officials arrived on the scene and reported observing the object as it hovered over apartment buildings. One officer reported the object released a red glowing disk of light from the center that flew down to the ground and darted around several buildings before disappearing. The larger craft eventually took off at high speed.

The Belgian Air Force scrambled F-16's to pursue the craft once it was spotted on ground radar systems. Both the fighter pilots and radar operators reported the objected would dart ahead at incredible speeds every time they finally had a radar lock on the craft. One pilot reported the object's speed at over 900 knots. After 9 confirmed target locks the object finally vanished off their screens.

The Belgian Air Force has gone on record with the details of its Black Triangle pursuit. It released its radar video footage and its conclusions, ruling out the following origins of the object in question:

Balloons. Impossible due to the highly variable speeds (confirmed visually and by radar).
ULM. Same as for balloons.
UAV. Impossible due to the hovering characteristics.
Aircraft (including Stealth). Same as for RPV. No noise.
Laser projections or Mirages. Unlikely due to lack of projection surface (no clouds). Light spots have been observed from different locations. Light spots moved over distance of more than 15 nautical miles (28 km). Form of unlighted part of spots has been observed with spectacles. Laser projections or mirages can not be detected by radar.
The report concludes that the Belgian Air Force was, "unable to identify neither the nature nor the origin of the phenomena".

It should be noted that some subsequent studies present a much more cautious and sceptical view of the events discussed in the Belgian Air Force report - disputing both the accuracy of some of the statements made in that report, and the interpretation of the events described (see for example the detailed summary at http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/Belg.html, which also provides references to other sources).

[edit]
Moscow Night Sightings
An especially interesting sightings occurred near Moscow on March 12, 1990. Several groups of UFOs were seen, some of which were spheres and discs, and some of which appeared to be huge triangular-shaped craft. Many local people spent the night on their rooftops watching these silent objects dart through the sky. In fact, during the spring of 1990, it appears that Russia had more, and more spectacular, UFO cases than did Belgium. The CIA retained several accounts of this wave from the Soviet-Russian media, although CIA reports themselves, assuming they exist, have yet to be released.

[edit]
The TR-3A and TR-3B
A speech given at the International UFO Congress, in Laughlin, Nevada in 1998 by Edgar Rothschild Fouche, (an engineer who claims to have worked at Area 51), suggests that the Black Triangle is a Top Secret, experimental, U.S. Air Force vehicle known as the TR-3B, code named "Astra".

The TR-3B is supposed to be a 600 foot wide (180 m), triangular aerospace vehicle that utilizes a nuclear reactor to generate an intense magnetic field that negates Earth's gravitational forces on the mass of the vehicle by 89%, rendering it extremely lightweight. It also manipulates this field for propulsion and can maneuver on the spot, vertically and horizontally, at incredible speeds up to Mach 9, and climb to an altitude of 120,000 feet (36.6 km). The aircraft is also equipped with advanced Electromagnetic Counter Measures ECM systems that render it nearly invisible to radar, or makes the craft appear as an aircraft of smaller size than it really is.

If a conventional nuclear reactor is used it must be designed in an unconventional way which looks suspiciously like impossible technology for this time period. The reactor would need bulky shielding, and the heat produced would have to be converted into electricity to run the coils that produce the magnetic levitation field for the aircraft. The machinery needed would likely make the aircraft much too heavy to fly.

There is also mention of the TR-3A, code named "Black Manta", which is reported to be similar to the 3B but smaller in size, with a boomerang shaped wingspan of 60 feet (18 m) and a tapered length of 45 feet (14 m).

The TR-3A/B may be the most classified aerospace development program in existence. Fouche reported that the development of the crafts were funded by black project monies, and overseen by the NRO, CIA, and NSA. Design of the vehicles were part of the Aurora Project, and was spawned by technologies developed in the 1980s for other classified aircraft such as the SR-75 Aurora. Some speculate the technology behind such crafts were the result of reverse engineering captured or exchanged alien technology, such as that reported to have been retrieved after the Roswell, New Mexico UFO crash incident in 1947.

The TR-3A/B allegation has been exercised by some as an explanation for many triangle sightings; however, no evidence has been presented to prove this theory accounts for the hundreds of sightings of trianglular-shaped aircraft with odd aerodynamic flight characteristics that have been documented as early as the 1930s.

[edit]
Other theories
The remaining possibilities are

that they are previously unknown American aircraft, manned or unmanned, which are being deployed in a 'high-visibility' fashion, but without public notice for some reason;
that they belong to some nation or organization other than the United States, which wishes to display itself in this fashion;
that they are some sort of common error of identification of some 'conventional' modern aircraft; explaining why the observations began in the 1990s;
or that they are of extraterrestrial origin.
One possibility is that the craft represent some form of advanced technology lighter than air craft. This would account for their size, low speed, low altitude, and silence. Such a vehicle would be advantageous in terms of payload size, fuel efficiency, extended time aloft, and ability to remain close to a location on the ground or a ground vehicle or group of vehicles for long periods. However, this would not explain why they would be displayed so freely, but with no official comment of any kind, or the reports of sudden high acceleration as in the Illinois case [1]. This possibility must however be weighed against the "Belgian Triangle" sightings involving Black Triangles identical to the objects sighted in American airspace. These Belgian Triangles demonstrated flight performance characteristics beyond the fighter jets used by the Belgian Air Force in their attempt to intercept them. The Wallonia Triangles were both photographed, filmed and tracked on radar, ruling out mass delusion as the source of the sightings.

Obviously, the other possibilities, that these sightings are either genuinely 'paranormal' in some way, or, conversely, merely some sort of mass delusion, open the door to almost any sort of speculation. Until more evidence of a different kind appears, or an American military or other group officially claims responsibility, what reality lies behind the American reports will remain unknown.

[edit]
Black triangles in fiction
A few black triangle ships have been featured in the X-Files televison series.
The fictional experimental F-302 aerospace fighters developed by the Air Force in the sci-fi television series Stargate SG-1, are based on reversed engineered alien technology. These craft are triangular in appearance and may have been inspired by the TR-3A.

There was a triangle incident in the late 80s near Manchester Airport, where the pilot filed both near miss and ufo reports. It dosent seem unreasonable to imagine that such advanced craft may exist, and that tests over busy air lanes with plenty of ATC radars are part of the testing process.

The Rendlesham story was hijacked in the UK by "The News of the World", a very dumbed down tabloid, which kind of lessens the story.

There was a triangle incident in the late 80s near Manchester Airport, where the pilot filed both near miss and ufo reports. It dosent seem unreasonable to imagine that such advanced craft may exist, and that tests over busy air lanes with plenty of ATC radars are part of the testing process.

The Rendlesham story was hijacked in the UK by "The News of the World", a very dumbed down tabloid, which kind of lessens the story.
I read about that too they think it was a top secret american plane called the aurora which refuels a secret scottish air base before flying back to the usa.

yeah i remember aurora. it was a big deal in the early 90s in my part of scotland. we had ufo reports in the newspapers all the time, apparently local weather stations would track the same ufo and the signals corps even reported the ufo refuelling at a base in scotland which is where the refuel thing comes from. whats most interesting is you can see the contrails for aurora on satellite images though rather oddly the plane itself is missing. the MOD incidentally released in may 2006 a report on the plans the u.s has to produce this plane whilst u.s congressional reports show that the plane has been built in prototype and budgeted for in production.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/May2006_UK_MoD_Report_BBCNEWS_page3.jpg
freedom of information? haha. freedom to tell us what we know and then censor everything we dont. and contrails... apparently though these contrails indicate the aircraft was travelling at mach 36! obviously NOT aurora. lol.
http://www.bisbos.com/rocketscience/donuts/report6/A_2l.jpg

The contrails lokk like from the elusive scramjet that has been reputedly developed. Machrihanish is usually quoted as the supposed base for "Auroura" operations, but its now under care and maintenence (closed to flying) and the US Marine and SEAL detachment I believe withdrawn, the Marines for definate (nuclear guarding)

so the americans have a jet engine that will reduce fuel useage hugely, reduce time speeds, pollutes less and can revolutionise jet travel. its effects on emissions would be enormous and they dont want to share it with the rest of the world, i wonder what frank whittle would think of that.

I am not suprised or bothered with not sharing this technology. I think things of this nature should be kept quiet.

even if it means slashing emissions for ghgs by over 10% worldwide?

Of course they have secret aircraft that they don't want to share with the rest of the world. They spend billions developing these, why would they want to share it, especially if it gives them the tactical advantage?

yeah whats the good of mankind, slashing emissions and revolutionisng air travel plus new propulsion technologies compared to the ability to overfly your enemies secretly at 3000mph.

so the americans have a jet engine that will reduce fuel useage hugely, reduce time speeds, pollutes less and can revolutionise jet travel. its effects on emissions would be enormous and they dont want to share it with the rest of the world, i wonder what frank whittle would think of that.I think we have to put things into perspective here.

Most technologies that we take for granted today wouldn't have come into existance unless there was a previous military application. The likes of GE aren't the engineers of the future, its the people at organisations like QinetiQ.

As for making them viable to the world - well that is up to the Americans to do with their technology. Eventually it will come to the market, but I don't see why we should be focusing on harassing countries to spread technology because then there won't be a real purpose for the likes of QinetiQ...ending with the stiffling of new technologies that we would later come to adopt as consumers.

Ask yourself also why this technology isn't mainsteam in the USAF: its at development stage and probably has several flaws that need ironing out.

Meanwhile we can reduce emissions is far more practical ways:
- Recycle more
- Consume and waste less
- Move towards renewables

any of you guys ever watched the x-files????

http://users.aol.com/hytritium/newpost.jpg

except nick, the only practical way of reducing the emissions of air travel is to either not travel at all or to have new engines. the british GAVE jet engines to the world, frank whittle refused to enforce the patent on them. we british are quite good at giving stuff away whether its penecillin or the internet, the internet proves your argument about it stifling technology is rubbish.

someone say scramjet??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-43

Id be surprised if they had secret scramjet projects, when they have boeing working on an x-plane. And if they do, how much more advanced can the technology be from the X-43? the plane was unmanned had to be fired from a rocket until it hit mach 2, and was only about the size of a small missile, although it did hit mach 9.8.

If you look back in American history, its always been the x-planes that have lead the way, so id be surprised if a secret project is researching scramjets. Whats more likely is that they are researching a different technology uinder one of the unknown x- designations.

Either that or this report includes mainly people talking about the B2 bomber before it was common knowledge

except nick, the only practical way of reducing the emissions of air travel is to either not travel at all or to have new engines. the british GAVE jet engines to the world, frank whittle refused to enforce the patent on them. we british are quite good at giving stuff away whether its penecillin or the internet, the internet proves your argument about it stifling technology is rubbish.Well thats just common sense, but you can offset a plane journey by resorting to consuming less in life elsewhere.

Again, what was the basis of the development of the jet engine: military applications which after several years was released to the public.

Penicillin funnilly enough wasn't given wide exposure until...yep casualties of WW2.

The internet started off with US military origins....

Have a strong military, and you have the basis for a strong R&D sector. Its a fact of life that most either ignore or have no idea about.

the WWW was invented by tim berners lee. he also invented the web browser, the first web directory, cascade style sheets, online picture viewer, html and an html editor. other examples of this approach to technology are mp3s and jpgs which have become so popular for a reason. why is SSC more popular than emporis? how do you explain the success of wikipedia?

"the World Wide Web was non-proprietary, making it possible to develop servers and clients independently and to add extensions without licensing restrictions."

the jet engine became so revolutionary so quick because everyone was developing it. take this ramjet/scramjet. the us military is spending perhaps $2 billion a year on it, they are developing it for spyplanes only. imagine if it was opened up to civllian use how much research would go on and how much would be spent?

computers used to effectively be restricted to the military too, then in the 1970s guys started building them in their garages. for all that military computer research it was the likes of steve jobs, not darpa who caused silicone valley to become what ti is

the WWW was invented by tim berners lee. he also invented the web browser, the first web directory, cascade style sheets, online picture viewer, html and an html editor. other examples of this approach to technology are mp3s and jpgs which have become so popular for a reason. why is SSC more popular than emporis? how do you explain the success of wikipedia?

"the World Wide Web was non-proprietary, making it possible to develop servers and clients independently and to add extensions without licensing restrictions."

the jet engine became so revolutionary so quick because everyone was developing it. take this ramjet/scramjet. the us military is spending perhaps $2 billion a year on it, they are developing it for spyplanes only. imagine if it was opened up to civllian use how much research would go on and how much would be spent?

computers used to effectively be restricted to the military too, then in the 1970s guys started building them in their garages. for all that military computer research it was the likes of steve jobs, not darpa who caused silicone valley to become what ti isNow I'm not exactly an expert in technology, but even I know that the WWW and internet are two different things.

You originally talking about the internet which was a development by the US military.

Naturally not everything is going to be related to the military, that would just be a tad bit odd. Yet the majority of major things in life do have origins in the military.

Also I'm not quite sure what is the connection between a high-tech jet engine that alone will probably cost £bns to develop and then possibly be in the £100bns in commercial usage....and wikipedia which essentially is just sharing basic facts that most would probably know already in one form or another. Thats not even getting started on the intellectual rights issues. Skyscrapernews is for instance not as much mine as it is yours.

Like I said, the jet engine for years was only in the domain of the military. That way our country had a technological advantage over other countries but at the same time were perfecting the design. When the time was right it was released to the market in a form that could be sold. The likes of Airbus, Boeing, etc... aren't in the market to revolutionise plane design, most of that comes from...yes you guessed it hand-me-downs from the military.

When the time is right, we'll get commercial scramjets but only when it becomes commercially viable.

Again, military facilitated leading onto commercial prosperity.

X-files rule!

There was a program on about UFOs on C4 and it mentioned Aurora at the end and showed pictures of contrails and also satellite images of contrails. They think it is using some sort of pulse propulsion system which boosts it through the sky pretty quick. There is also a satellite image of Area 51 which shows a triangular object on the taxiways but the image is so pixelated that it is really hard to actually distinguish what it is. I think Aurora is a real project by the USA and they have no where to really test it without it being noticed so they have to go and fly it all over the world.

Can you remember the black triangle plane which was reported and then finally a photographer got passed some miliatry boundary and got the first ever picture of the stealth bomber (cant remember name) flying around with two fighter jets either side of it. Not long after that photo was taken, the airforce decided to reveal the aircraft. So if someone manages to get a picture of Aurora (which will be bloody diffifcult if it travels at Mach 36) then the airforce will be under considerable pressure to answer some fresh new questions. At the moment we only have contrails which is still enough to grill the US airforce but we need harder evidence.

I expect they exist, I mean before F-117 went public it was pretty much an unidentified black triangle flying in and out of groom lake and around the area.

^^But now with a lot of conflicts happening on the other side of the world for the US, they need to find ways of getting further and quicker.

Satelite images are getting better all the time and one day a Satelite will take a photo of a US base and it will show something which we havent seen befour. Its all down to the dude who use private Satelites to get the photos.

Give it time and we'll get something. But its gunna be difficult to get a picture of a plane at Mach 36. It would have gone from Saudi Arabia to NZ in 1 minute or something.

Give it time and we'll get something. But its gunna be difficult to get a picture of a plane at Mach 36. It would have gone from Saudi Arabia to NZ in 1 minute or something.
So a plane on a runway its going to be traveling Mach 36. :scouserd:

How do we know it needs a runway? It might be able to take off vertically... Maybe it just flies all the time and then gets some other plane to top up the tanks over the South Pacific.

Satelite images are getting better all the time and one day a Satelite will take a photo of a US base and it will show something which we havent seen befour. Its all down to the dude who use private Satelites to get the photos.

and soon after, we will knock it out of orbit with one of our anti-satilite weapons.

and soon after, we will knock it out of orbit with one of our anti-satilite weapons.
What do you mean? Ur'll knock your own stuff out of orbit?

^^^
yeah no 1 is goin to notice that! :scouserd:

I remember a few years ago my mums friend phoned us to say there was a black triangluar shaped aircraft "hovering" in the sky above her house. We live a mile or two down the road and looked out too see if we could see anything but we saw nothing......My my mums friend, and her neighbours who also saw it, are adament it was not a regular airplane or helicopter.....but a large black triangle that was practically in the same place for at least 20 mins before slowly moving off, with no noise.

I'm fairly sure it wasnt little green men, so that leaves 2 options, the military, or a normal aircraft that happened to look unusual for whatever reason and the people who saw it are mistaken.

But i dunno.......i love a good government conspiracy theory as the next person, but i doubt the military would fly such an aircraft over the skies of North London

What do you mean? Ur'll knock your own stuff out of orbit?


You said spy satellites viewing secret U.S. military bases.

^^A private U.S company using it's own satelite is where the most recent images of Groom Lake have come from and not spy satelites.

Man G is back!

I think it must have been over a year. Hope you are all well, not putting on too much weight, exercising regularly...

Two points I think with regard to what people have said:

Firstly, a flight by airliner is almost impossible to offset by altering the rest of your life. Just think about how much energy is required to lift 100 tonnes to 30,000 feet. I think it's ridiculous for the government to insist on everyone driving little boxy cars and build wind turbines while encouraging huge growth in commercial aviation.

Secondly, the development of technology isn't as predictable as you might think. It's not a case of the big bad Americans stopping everyone from having their technology. There will be more issues with accelerating hundreds of people to 3000 mph at 80,000 feet than there will be eith a couple of military aviators in space suits. I don't know jack about scramjet technology, but Boeing and Airbus are not in the business of such radical development.

boeing and airbus both are. concorde is one of the foundations of airbus and boeing have been trying to build a supersonic airliner for years.

^^A private U.S company using it's own satelite is where the most recent images of Groom Lake have come from and not spy satelites.

well I know about that, but I assumed he meant enemy satellites zooming in on Groom Lake taking very detailed pictures of it. That Google Earth shit doesnt show anything of importance.

^^The private company can zoom in on Groom Lake, they can get very detailed pictures and soon they will put a next generation satellite up.
Google images are free, what do you expect to see? Green monsters from Roswell!

^^The private company can zoom in on Groom Lake, they can get very detailed pictures and soon they will put a next generation satellite up.
Google images are free, what do you expect to see? Green monsters from Roswell!

I am sure the U.S. government will have a problem with that. Then again, there are pictures of it all over. A super up close photograph showing stuff in high detail shouldnt be allowed.

^^Why?

but Boeing and Airbus are not in the business of such radical development.

Boeing have been researching anti-gravity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2157975.stm

u.s govt DOES have an issue with google earth. they hate it with a passion. im sure the google guys being complete geeks would just love to have pics of aurora on google earth...

boeing and airbus both are. concorde is one of the foundations of airbus and boeing have been trying to build a supersonic airliner for years.

Boeing has no intention of building a supersonic airliner. It actually did build one when the Concorde was built, or before, but was smart enough to realize that it wasn't feasible, so it didn't go ahead with massive production. The prototype is in Seattle if you don't believe me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Sonic_Cruiser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_2707

not the reason isnt because they arent feasible, its because of sonic booms.

^^Why?

What business do people, especially people who are not Americans have looking at an air base in which the government has to fly people to every day for work? If Americans have the technology to see deep into Groom Lake, then everyone will eventually be able to do it. Google Earth is an American product but it is used by people all over. Instead of risking what we have inside, I say let no one see it. I am content as an American to not know what is going on out there. Sure, I would be interested...but I am more comfortable knowing that they are building some crazy, superpower, shit that I dont know about--that is used to protect this country.

I think you are seeing this as an outsider. If the U.K. was coming out with this super advanced stuff--you wouldnt want everyone seeing it. My tax dollars are being used to build this shit and I dont want some Commie, Ruskie, or whoever to be looking in at it, getting the idea to build their own. :)

I think you are seeing this as an outsider. If the U.K. was coming out with this super advanced stuff--you wouldnt want everyone seeing it. My tax dollars are being used to build this shit and I dont want some Commie, Ruskie, or whoever to be looking in at it, getting the idea to build their own. :)

Some of the most detailed views of groomlake I've seen were in an aviation magazine showing Russian sat views, the 'commie ruskie or whoever' don't need to use google earth..

I don't think the people at groomlake are in the habit of leaving thier new secret aircraft out on the tarmac, so i'm sure that the secrets there are still safe.

What business do people, especially people who are not Americans have looking at an air base in which the government has to fly people to every day for work? If Americans have the technology to see deep into Groom Lake, then everyone will eventually be able to do it. Google Earth is an American product but it is used by people all over. Instead of risking what we have inside, I say let no one see it. I am content as an American to not know what is going on out there. Sure, I would be interested...but I am more comfortable knowing that they are building some crazy, superpower, shit that I dont know about--that is used to protect this country.

I think you are seeing this as an outsider. If the U.K. was coming out with this super advanced stuff--you wouldnt want everyone seeing it. My tax dollars are being used to build this shit and I dont want some Commie, Ruskie, or whoever to be looking in at it, getting the idea to build their own. :)

Do you think the U.S Air force are so unprofessional that it can't detect satellites?!
Have you seen the traking equipment at Groom Lake?
Do you think they are so inept as to test new aircraft during the day?
Legally a company can take pictures of Groom Lake, publish them and do what they want with them. The satellite can be launched from various sites around the world, the company can be based in another country and be out of the jurisdiction of the U.S.
The U.S government has passed its own laws on promoting commercial space flight and they have signed international treaties protecting the rights of others to operate freely in space.
The U.S has spy satellites, should they be stopped from spying on commies and Russkies?
Americans seem to be the ones pushing for information (court cases and freedom of information requests) on Groom Lake to find out what their tax dollars are being spent on and not outsiders!

well of course I know they arent just going to let shit laying out in the hot sun. I still dont think we should allow people to view these top secret bases. Why do they need to?

^^Because they have the freedom to do so.

and of course you people are going to be blase about top secret American technology. Why shouldnt you? If this was a top secret British air base, you people would be unhappy with people spying on it. You know you would, I dont see the point denying it with this forums legendary braggery. Yes, we all know there is really nothing we can do about it. And I wouldnt be suprised if there was some other secret base out there that the public doesnt know about.

^^Because they have the freedom to do so.

why should they have that freedom to spy on places we dont want them to? In that same manner, I am not big on us spying on everyone else.

^^I thought you meant Americans.
International Treaties are why they can.

^^I thought you meant Americans.
International Treaties are why they can.

Their bullshit then. Talk about respecting someones privacy and airspace. And people get so mad when the CIA does whatever in other nations. Why should espionage and spying be taboo then if we allow futuristic satellites to view top secret military installations, peoples homes, etc?

and of course you people are going to be blase about top secret American technology. Why shouldnt you? If this was a top secret British air base, you people would be unhappy with people spying on it. You know you would, I dont see the point denying it with this forums legendary braggery. Yes, we all know there is really nothing we can do about it. And I wouldnt be suprised if there was some other secret base out there that the public doesnt know about.

This thread was bound to lead to Groom Lake, a not so secret base where many U.F.O stories have originated ( some by the C.I.A ) to cover up test aircraft. This base is in the U.S, this is the U.K skybar and you opened up this thread!
There is a secret base in Ohio :)

This thread was bound to lead to Groom Lake, a not so secret base where many U.F.O stories have originated ( some by the C.I.A ) to cover up test aircraft. This base is in the U.S, this is the U.K skybar and you opened up this thread!
There is a secret base in Ohio :)

Yes, it all comes down to Groom Lake doesnt it always seem? Seriously, I wouldnt doubt if some of the crazier shit was being developed in some other unknown location. Stuff like time travel and things of that nature. My buddy told me he read that the U.S. government was looking into that during the Cold War.

And I know its about a U.S. base, but you would have the same feelings about it if this technology was supposedly developed in Britain.

^^There are a few military bases near where I live, I can't take pictures of them and if I did take pictures and was caught (cctv everywhere) I would be arrested but I can look at the bases on Google.
QinetiQ is the U.K researh company that develops future tech for the British armed services and they have sensitive test areas in Britain ( Bae aswell ).
Secret tech is probably less exciting than we think, it's probably just engine researh, stealth and weaponary development that goes into production a few years down the line. There may be a new spy or stealth plane flying that we will get to see in a few years, it's possible that some tech developed was a flop and a waste of money.

^you mean QinetiQ... DSTL also carries out research for the military

In America its mostly DARPA, and the secret projects divisions of Lockhead Martin and Northrupp Grumman... skunkworks and phantom works respectively.

Plenty of secret projects are currently under go in both countries its almost a guarantee, a vast ammount of technology in our submarines we'll never share, and the Americans will be the same. The thing is the significant research is normally at component level, and is very undetectable from space. So what if you can see a massive hangar, without getting inside whats the point??

Reddalert.. a lot of people in America and England would love to know what our governments are keeping secret, probably more than want it kept quiet like yourself.

And for everyone else don't worry as soon as a new bit of technology becomes commercially viable all the smoke screens will drop. IF the propulsion systems designed here proove more efficient and or cleaner, then they WILL make there way to civil aviation.

Chances are groom lake is an old dissused air base, and area 51 is buried way under the ground somewhere we'd never guess.

You can't take photo's of the SAS base but you can see it on google earth and you can see into lots of it from the road...most military bases have a ban on photography.

Ok guys.

This is a video lecture given by Phil Schneider who used to work for the US government in secret projects.
He is exposing all kind of things amongst others secrets about the Aurora and flying saucers as well as deep underground bases such as "Dulce" in New Mexico.
Hes also presenting alien artefacts, minerals and also top secret pictures.

august lecture:
http://videodownloader.net/get/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-3403113138974316606

November lecture
http://videodownloader.net/get/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-9042499324182317197

I would recomend anybody to watch that.
these are two out of three lectures and they are very interesting for anybody who is interested in black projects etc..

He eventually got himself killed for doing that.
He was killed in 1996 (officially it was a suicide as usual) his whole alien mineral collection disspeared.

btw.Youll need to download the FLV player to watch it. the link is also attached to the address that I have given

I would like to know whats going on underground...but I think its better they remain secret. It allows us to always have something up our sleeve in case a major war breaks out. Much of the cool technology is released to the public--like the optic camoflauge, the robotic supersuits, energy guns, and all the other sci-fi stuff.

^^ have you watched the videos???

The problem is that there is stuff going on in underground bases that the public isnt allowed to know about.
Not even to mention the people who are used as human guinea pigs.
Again I would encourage everybody to watch those lectures. It is probably the only video insight that is available.
That guy is a geologist and he knows what hes talking about.
He shows allegedly alien minerals and elements and explains how they are used in stealth aircraft such as the F-117A, the B2 and the Aurora.

He claims that he has been involved with aliens in a firefight near the infamous "Dulce" underground base which is supposedly located right under Denver international airport.
He also exposes several other underground bases.

Here is the link to the first lecture made in May 1996

http://videodownloader.net/get/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D8180572860678943465

I stumbled across this stuff on another forum and I think its very interesting

It allows us to always have something up our sleeve in case a major war breaks out.

No it doesnt. Thats the point Phil Schneider is trying to make.
He claims (and hes not the only one) that the US government and the CIA are closely working together with other countries secret services for a long time.
that means that there is a constant exchange between russian/european and american technology. Nothing is kept secret between them.
He indicates that most of the technology found in an secret american stealth airplane type that has flown thousands of sorties in desert storm has actually been built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.
there has been a close relationship especially with the Russian (KGB and later FSB) and the english MI-5.
As you might know the CIA has been founded by british MI-5 members.
Phil Schneider also claims that the CIA has been trained by german Nazis after ww2.
If you know about operation paperclip than you know what hes been talking about.
For instance there is a very high possibility that beasts like Joseph Mengele were allowed to continue their research in the US from the spring of 1945 when he dissapeared from Germany.
Some sources on the net claim that he has worked heavily on his mind-control /mind-altering research/testing there called Monarch.

And by the way: He claims that he has worked for Aerospatiale and maybe I.G.Farben amongst others.
I guess I dont need to explain to you what I.G.Farben does or is, and their involvement in ww2.
He also points out that Krupp has patented one of those laser drilling machines that are being used.
that doesnt amaze me. again just read up about the german familiy Krupp bloodline and their invlovement in the last two worldwars and the sponsoring of Adolf Hitler.

^I think thats all conspiracy theory stuff.

Its not hard to keep something secret. On the news the other day it said a new British Aircraft that has been top secret for 6 years has been shown for the first time at the Farnborough Airshow.

Its not hard to keep something secret. On the news the other day it said a new British Aircraft that has been top secret for 6 years has been shown for the first time at the Farnborough Airshow.

What aircraft is that then?

^I think thats all conspiracy theory stuff.


so what does that mean? :sleepy:

Btw: That guy got killed like many other people who worked for the government and started to expose secrets about "Dulce" and other bases

What aircraft is that then?

Well I don't think they've released the exact information yet, but its a stealth UAV. BAe have actually been working on a handful of them and as a final product will probably combine some of the technologies involved in seperate ones.

Ah the BAe UAV project, its been widely publicised for a long time now, dont think there was ever much secrecy.

on a side note: I hate the word stealth, it should be seen as a variable not a feature. ie the B2 is more stealthy than the eurofighter which is more stealthy than a tornado which is more stealthy than... etc. You cant just say the B2 is a stealth plane and the eurofighter isn't, theres levels of stealth. Its got to a stupid point where people have to say when designing a new plane that it is stealth, because otherwise its assumed to be inferior. The rellevance to the previous comment is how can a UAV not be stealthy, its gonna be smaller than a manned plane, probably have less sharp edges due to no cockpit, and more exotic materials can be used as a weaker airframe is sufficient. So to say they're working on a stealth UAV to me means devlopment of the watchkeeper project which has been well known about for a long time (2003).

Now if BAe had announced a UCAV (Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle) project at a highly progressed stage i would be impressed.

I apologise a UCAV was announced:

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article/894/British-Stealth-UAV-Revealed.html

im annoyed that they're focussing on the word stealth rather than combat, guess it goes down better amongst the public

It should be noted that this isn't a project they've been working on in secret for years, they have been performing research leading up to this project, but they havent been test flying UCAVs in secret. Basiclly the project has been announced at a stage where its ready to be developed, rather than when it s ready to be used. We're not gonna see UCAVs in the RAF for many years yet, probably not until the JSF retires.

http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/air/images/CORAX_hires.jpg


int she a beauty

Ah the BAe UAV project, its been widely publicised for a long time now, dont think there was ever much secrecy.

on a side note: I hate the word stealth, it should be seen as a variable not a feature. ie the B2 is more stealthy than the eurofighter which is more stealthy than a tornado which is more stealthy than... etc. You cant just say the B2 is a stealth plane and the eurofighter isn't, theres levels of stealth. Its got to a stupid point where people have to say when designing a new plane that it is stealth, because otherwise its assumed to be inferior. The rellevance to the previous comment is how can a UAV not be stealthy, its gonna be smaller than a manned plane, probably have less sharp edges due to no cockpit, and more exotic materials can be used as a weaker airframe is sufficient. So to say they're working on a stealth UAV to me means devlopment of the watchkeeper project which has been well known about for a long time (2003).

Now if BAe had announced a UCAV (Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle) project at a highly progressed stage i would be impressed.

Well all BAe are doing in regards to this particular project at Farnborough is released new information about it, not showing off a new one as such.

I want to know more about that "Corax" UCAV that was announced at the beginning of the year. I expect they won't give any more details about it for a long while though.

http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/air/images/CORAX_hires.jpg


int she a beauty

looks very similar to the german Barracuda

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Barracuda_av_dr.jpg/800px-Barracuda_av_dr.jpg
http://www.heise.de/bilder/75012/0/1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5198364.stm

Ah, heres what they were giving more details about this week.

Quite intresting to read the last few paragraphs about the photography it can take.

checker how can you compare those two planes, apart from the fact they are both unmanned, they look nothing like each other. In ours the main wings are quite large, and go all the way back to the tail, where there is no tail wing as such. The German one on the other hand has 2 smaller wings at the front, as well as FOUR tail wings. The body of the English one is relatively smaller, and the air intake further forwards.

About the only comparison is the fact that they both have 3 sets of wheels, but from the picture of the CORAX, that could be wrong too.

^^ Yes but on first (quick) sight they look somewhat similar dont you think?

^sorry no

the only comparison for me is the air intake, which is almost the main difference between Unmanned and manned vehicles, without there being a cockpit in the way the air intake can be high up in the vessel (reduces radar signature amongst other things). however ALL UAVs have an intake like this, and comparisons are hard to draw based on this alone. have a look at the X-45, its far closer to the CORAX
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Boeing_X-45A_UCAV.jpg/800px-Boeing_X-

This site is very interesting.
It shows weird aircraft types in an air force museum:

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/Museums/Dayton/Oddities/TacitBlue.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/Museums/Dayton/Oddities/index.html&h=700&w=980&sz=71&hl=en&start=36&tbnid=Gy9gVQWdxM65KM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGroom%2BLake%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

wow theres some crazy stuff in there, id seen the vertical launched jet before, always thought it could have been a good idea if only they'd stuck some wheels and let it do a short landing.

For some more funky airfcraft from the worlds most prolific aircraft designer, check out Burt Rutans company project list:

http://www.scaled.com/projects/index.html