I was reading some of the threads and noticed a few nice comments from the Liverpool based posters, and it got me thinking.
The one thing I don’t know much about, how Leeds is perceived by people outside the city.
And I wondered if there was a chance that some people from outside the city could give a NONE biased view of the city.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT A THRED FOR ARGUMENTS!
Thanks

The one thing I don’t know much about, how Leeds is preserved from people outside the city.

You mean you haven't heard about the great big Leeds preservation forcefield they built in 1989?

I first saw Leeds from the train in March 1986, and to be honest my thoughts were "what a dump". I had just flown from Germany for Uni interviews, so I was comparing UK cities to Dusseldorf. Train routes dont show you the best of a place either.

A few years later I got to explore the city a bit further, and found it was quite impressive in terms of Victoriana. I stayed in Harehills a few times after gigs at, I dont remember the name, it was on Vicar Lane.

Last year I transited on the train again to York, and what a difference! It wasnt the same place at all. Massive new apartment blocks, construction everywhere. i thought it looked fantastic, and aim to have a proper look around sometime soon.

Matt I trust you mean how Leeds is perceived, not preserved!

I don’t know much about, how Leeds is preserved from people outside the city.



'preserved' - in aspic ? Don't you mean 'perceived' ? (sorry to be so pedantic :) )

My step grandad is a sprightly 95 year old. He first came to Leeds in 1930 and hated it...it was so dark as the sky was black with thick smoke.

He came recently and loved it. He was very very impressed. :)


...can't do with all these good spellers..... seriously worries me....:sly:

My step grandad is a sprightly 95 year old.

...so he is well preserved too...? :runaway:

That was my annual contribution to the Leeds forum. Thank you for listening.

all changed!

...can't do with all these good spellers..... seriously worries me....:sly:


Ask for a good dictionary for your next birthday Molly - it will make good reading and cure your worries !

That was my annual contribution to the Leeds forum. Thank you for listening.

Hey you just missed a great Liverpool/Manchester fight somewhere here. Should visit more often than once a year ;)

The one thing I don’t know much about, how Leeds is perceived from people outside the city.

You mean - "how Leeds is perceived by people from outside the city" :)

You mean - "how Leeds is perceived by people from outside the city" :)

I have changed this as well, can’t any one answer the question that the topic as about instead of (like above) having a babyish moaning session about spelling, I make the effort to put all my posts under spell check and it’s not my fault some worlds are not picked up.
If you can read it put with it!
You would complain is a post about a building/ project was changed onto one about another so stop changing the subject in other posts about spelling and grammar!
THIS IS THE END OF THE MATER AND IT SHALL NOT BE BROUGHT UP IN THIS POST AGAIN! SO ETHER ANSWER THE 1st POST OR DON’T RELPY!

I've always thought of Leeds people as rather arrogant. Don't ask me why and obviously I'm not going to say you all are but for soeme reason I seem to have that opinion of them.

However, I do think you have a nice city, some nice new buildings and a good night life. I just think you have to be careful, like most places at the moment that you don't end up with to many similar looking mid rise apartment blocks.

[However, I do think you have a nice city, some nice new buildings and a good night life. I just think you have to be careful, like most places at the moment that you don't end up with to many similar looking mid rise apartment blocks.[/QUOTE]


Can't see how that will be the case with no fewer than 15 proposals for high rise buildings over 80 metres.

There are very few cities in the UK with this number of skyscrapapers in the pipeline

Aren't most the proposals hi-rise, not medium rise 16 storey blocks? Maybe thats not the case and the tall towers just overshadow them. Theres alot of 8-16 storey buildings at Whitehall Quays/Wellington Place, Quarry Hill and Eastgate but apart from that most the proposals are 21+ storey arent they?

I liked what I saw back in March - very dense with some notable apartment blocks going up. The skyline is ok from the approaching motorway but I think Leeds doesn't really want to try to go the same route as Brum for instance because it wouldn't suit it IMO. I stayed in the Radisson SAS hotel and that was very nice.

Hey you just missed a great Liverpool/Manchester fight somewhere here. Should visit more often than once a year ;)

Don't do fighting mate. Peace and harmony all the way for me. :)

Don't do fighting mate. Peace and harmony all the way for me. :)

Are you sure you are from Liverpool? :wink2:

I liked what I saw back in March - very dense with some notable apartment blocks going up. The skyline is ok from the approaching motorway but I think Leeds doesn't really want to try to go the same route as Brum for instance because it wouldn't suit it IMO. I stayed in the Radisson SAS hotel and that was very nice.
What do you mean about the same route as Birmingham? You mean like tall and big buildings? Whatever anyway, it does look like it is following the convention of the large cities at the moment, with mass development and lots of hi-rise projects.

...so he is well preserved too...? :runaway:
yep... seems lots of salt does the trick. :yes:

When you meet the well preserved elderly you find their secret to a long healthy life is to be well smoked, pickled or salted!


Ask for a good dictionary for your next birthday Molly - it will make good reading and cure your worries !
oh no..such useless bits of junk they are...they put the words in the wrong order cos they don't spell their words the same as I do so! oh dear...such hopeless books dictonaries are! :ohno:

..make great beer mats though! :cheers:

;)

Here is my Leeds views.

Some people from Leeds are fairly arrogant, and the place doesn't have a safe feel to it. However, there is some great buildings under-construction in the city which can only be good for our Yorkshire region!

and the place doesn't have a safe feel to it.
...wow....not feel safe! What are you?... some great big overgrown wimp! lol!


...so out of interest if Leeds feels unsafe where feels safe for you?

Are you sure you are from Liverpool? :wink2:

LOL. Sheffield actually, since you ask! (Not lived there for yonks though.) So imagine how difficult it is for me to come here in a spirit of love and understanding... :lovethem:


Anyway, back to your thread...!

I find that parts of Leeds feel safe, particularly the centre where theres lots of people. It's once you venture out the centre and in districts like Burley, Holbeck and the like where I don't feel as safe- but its the same for any city. I can feel safe in any city centre (saying that though, a chav had a go at me once in Liverpool city centre), but other areas are unsafe- Miles Platting/Ancoats Manchester, Easterhouse Glasgow and Manningham Bradford to name a few.

I don't really think Loiners are arrogant- I think people can be a bit arrogant in London, and in Edinburgh/Glasgow, from experience.

Perceptions of Leeds?
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2291/abfabvt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

oh no..such useless bits of junk they are...they put the words in the wrong order cos they don't spell their words the same as I do so! oh dear...such hopeless books dictonaries are! :ohno:

..make great beer mats though! :cheers:

;)
Molly, when I did National Service after the war I was stationed in Singapore.
My colonel had been imprisoned during the war by the Japanese - and if you don't know what sort of privations he had to suffer as a consequence look it up. He said the only thing that kept him sane during those terrible years was a dictionary which was the only book he possessed. So don't decry dictionaries !

okay folks....Fred mentioned the war... WARNING: fingers on your ears Molly blasting Fred time! :) ;)


Fred...although I was obviously joking....



...it seems you insisted on taking it so seriously and somehow linking it to the depravities and crimes of war ... and the assumption again that I am so uneducated I don't know who Noddy is.... :|



....anyways... ...I was in fact also quite correct......Dictionaries are for discovering the meaning of words..not correcting their spelling.


...to look up a word in a dictionary you do actually need to know how to spell it or at least have a good idea of it's spelling first! Or how will you find the word you want to find! For spelling a dictionary is no good.


....best to use tools like spell check but that can sometimes create worse mistakes! lol!

Even in teaching you ideally don't tell kids to look up words in a dictionary because that was a lazy teacher cop out of their responsibility to teach non teaching method used in the past. So instead you teach. You tell them to try the words for themselves the flow and meaning comes first.... and then they should try to look at their work and identify the words that might be incorrect, and then look to see which part of the word might be wrong and then try to correct it ... and then you show them the correct spelling and they compare this with their attempt and look to see where they are right/wrong. You also don't give them a list of words and say go learn them...you give them a list and sit down with them and teach them how to learn the words and teach the parents who wont help how to do this. This way they are helped to learn. There are many tools in assisting in the learning of spelling correctness..the dictionary being very very low on the helpful list!



Difficulties in spelling can be linked to poor quality education, social/emotional/health issues in childhood, poor vision, low IQ or in the type of people who frequent this type of forum to high IQ, and also an assortment of connected learning/thinking differences ....in a female orientated education system the boys being more at risk then the girls.......none of which are the fault of a child.... And our education stays with us through life ..the good ad the bad.


Therefore I will not quietly ignore any mocking of individuals who use a forum for general interest and relaxation and get mocked or pulled to bits for poor spelling.



I am happy to treat a small quantity of mocking as a Joke but were people to take this as an opportunity to make value judgment against the quality, education, validity and intellect of other forumers then regard that as extreemely low form of 'ism' .

...or spelling simple mistakes because when people post they don't realise posing on an internet forum is taking an English exam! Basically so what if peope make mistakes. Who cares!



There is more to life them correct spelling and as long as people will be pedantic in correcting spellings I will be pedantic in mocking them for being so pedantically spellingly obsessed and disrespectful towards other forumers.




Okay... back to peceptions of Leeds.... :cheers:

Even in teaching you ideally don't tell kids to look up words in a dictionary because that was a lazy teacher cop out of their responsibility to teach. So instead you teach. You tell them to try the words for themselves the flow and meaning comes first.... and then they should try to look at their work and identify the words that might be incorrect, and then look to see which part of the word might be wrong and then try to correct it ... and then you show them the correct spelling and they compare this with their attempt and look to see where they are right/wrong. You also don't give them a list of words and say go learn them...you give them a list and sit down with them and teach them how to learn the words and teach the parents who wont help how to do this. This way they are helped to learn. There are many tools in assisting in the learning of spelling correctness..the dictionary being very very low on the helpful list!


I wish you'd been my teacher :)

Just thinking about the purpose of this thread, though, reminded me of my first visit to Leeds in the days when Noah was a boy, or at least when Schofields was still a proper store on the Headrow (though it turned out it was on the brink of closure).

Knowing that I'm among friends, I can say frankly that I thought the city was a dump and not a patch on Sheffield which I had recently visited. We parked on some waste ground where the Marriott Hotel now stands and walked along Boar Lane which was full of shops selling the kind of stuff that you couldn't imagine anybody wanting to buy. The buildings on the south side of the road had scaffolding at roof level. It was only later we were told it was to stop bits of the building parapets flattening pedestrians below. City Square was nothing but a traffic island, Briggate had loads of empty shops and what's now the Victoria Quarter seemed to consists of nothing but shops selling corsets and those thick stockings that my grandmother liked. Plus there was that truly nasty shopping arcade where Harvey Nichols is now. The crowning glory of the visit was the skanky carpet in the Odeon and a cinema the size of your sitting room (Screen 5, if memory serves me).

Obviously, I'm looking back through grime-tinted spectacles but the memory remains and the experience was enough to put me off for years. When I finally did come back, the Corn Exchange was shops, the scaffolding had come down on the rejuvenated south side of Boar Lane, and the columns were going up in Queen Victoria Street to support the largest stained glass roof in Europe (did I invent that statistic?).

Even though these were isolated examples of building regeneration, they did seem to indicate that the city was shaking itself down and preparing itself for a post-industrial future. Strangely, though, what impressed me most was the pedestrianisation that had taken place around Albion Place and Commercial Street, along with those outsized lamp standards. I'll be sorry to see them go.

i was going to leeds uni open day and i honestly thought to myself "i dont want to go ther, its a shithole" i got there, and my views were completely changed, its such a boss city!!

okay folks....Fred mentioned the war... WARNING: fingers on your ears Molly blasting Fred time! :) ;)


Fred...although I was obviously joking....
...it seems you insisted on taking it so seriously and somehow linking it to the depravities and crimes of war ... and the assumption again that I am so uneducated I don't know who Noddy is.... :|
....anyways... ...I was in fact also quite correct......Dictionaries are for discovering the meaning of words..not correcting their spelling.
...to look up a word in a dictionary you do actually need to know how to spell it or at least have a good idea of it's spelling first! Or how will you find the word you want to find! For spelling a dictionary is no good.
...best to use tools like spell check but that can sometimes create worse mistakes! lol!

Even in teaching you ideally don't tell kids to look up words in a dictionary because that was a lazy teacher cop out of their responsibility to teach non teaching method used in the past. So instead you teach. You tell them to try the words for themselves the flow and meaning comes first.... and then they should try to look at their work and identify the words that might be incorrect, and then look to see which part of the word might be wrong and then try to correct it ... and then you show them the correct spelling and they compare this with their attempt and look to see where they are right/wrong. You also don't give them a list of words and say go learn them...you give them a list and sit down with them and teach them how to learn the words and teach the parents who wont help how to do this. This way they are helped to learn. There are many tools in assisting in the learning of spelling correctness..the dictionary being very very low on the helpful list!

Difficulties in spelling can be linked to poor quality education, social/emotional/health issues in childhood, poor vision, low IQ or in the type of people who frequent this type of forum to high IQ, and also an assortment of connected learning/thinking differences ....in a female orientated education system the boys being more at risk then the girls.......none of which are the fault of a child.... And our education stays with us through life ..the good ad the bad.
Therefore I will not quietly ignore any mocking of individuals who use a forum for general interest and relaxation and get mocked or pulled to bits for poor spelling.
I am happy to treat a small quantity of mocking as a Joke but were people to take this as an opportunity to make value judgment against the quality, education, validity and intellect of other forumers then regard that as extreemely low form of 'ism' .
...or spelling simple mistakes because when people post they don't realise posing on an internet forum is taking an English exam! Basically so what if peope make mistakes. Who cares!
There is more to life them correct spelling and as long as people will be pedantic in correcting spellings I will be pedantic in mocking them for being so pedantically spellingly obsessed and disrespectful towards other forumers.
Okay... back to peceptions of Leeds.... :cheers:


Gosh, Molly. You must feel very relieved to get all that lot off your chest ! :)

i was going to leeds uni open day and i honestly thought to myself "i dont want to go ther, its a shithole" i got there, and my views were completely changed, its such a boss city!!

what do you meen?

i was going to leeds uni open day and i honestly thought to myself "i dont want to go ther, its a shithole" i got there, and my views were completely changed, its such a boss city!!

I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often. Most people outside Leeds seem to think it's a shithole, even if they come from somewhere like Swindon or Uttoxeter, but in my experience, people tend to leave with exactly the same impression they had before they arrived, even if they've been presented with a pretty persuasive case in Leeds' favour.


I remember my Dad driving up Boar Lane, City Square, and Park Row during the '80s. It was all a soot-stained mess. That's why I have to laugh when I hear people say modern Leeds is a dump.

"boss city", i would say he is trying to say he liked it, lol!!

Gosh, Molly. You must feel very relieved to get all that lot off your chest ! :)
yep... I and hope you pay attention. :)



Fred...I do seriously get a little fed up of you assuming that people who are younger then you are uneducated and lacking the most basic levels of general knowledge... it is actually very ageist of you!


Most people outside Leeds seem to think it's a shithole,
...being raised in York we always thought Leeds was a right dump of a place! But as soon as they grew up kids would go live in Leeds!

yep... I and hope you pay attention. :)



Fred...I do seriously get a little fed up of you assuming that people who are younger then you are un educated and lacking the most basic levels of general knowledge... it is actually very ageist of you!


Well, Molly, you appear to have plenty of time to develop that sort of ageism yourself - and I wish you good health to enjoy it.

BTW, however fed up you may get, I can safely and immodestly say that at least SOME people younger than me are comparatively uneducated etc.

I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often.

It does !

Most reports I hear from people who have recently visited go away quite impressed, often vowing a return visit.

i just spent the weekend in leeds visiting my girlfriend, and really enjoyed it. the architecture is nice, the people have a good dry sense of humour (may account for why people call them arrogant) and i found it easy to navigate and be transported round. the only trouble i could personally find with leeds was that nothing in it screamed out 'this is leeds' to me. like, although places like manchester and glasgow are much rougher in many parts, when i've been there i've felt 'so THIS is manchester/whatever'.

this post probably makes no sense but i guess i just want leeds to blow its own trumpet a bit more and have some sort of iconic 'welcome to leeds' thing (building, monument/other) in the city centre. a bit of individuality! this is after one weekend tho - so i may have completely missed something that would have done that for me.

No I know what you mean. City Square says to me 'This is Leeds' as does Millennium Square when events are on. City Square probably because at the moment it is the symbol of Leeds seen in every tourist brochure and the first sight for many visitors from the station. I don't really know whats in other cities to say 'This is..' though. Liverpool has its waterfront- but what do Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham have? I suppose Glasgow has the riverside.

i guess i was thinking glasgow has it's architecture, it's 'we're scotland with style' etc. you step off the train and you know you're there and nowhere else - for better or worse. a city like newcastle has the bridges. manchester has the re-made centre. i never got round to millenium square, would love to see that. maybe that'd do it for me! i guess i just like some sort of gateway in that says welcome to wherever - this place is special. mind you if everyone's special then is anyone special?

i guess i wasn't all that qualified to say cos i've no proper experience of leeds from before, i probably went a couple of times from derby as a kid, but nothing else. just saying what i thought this weekend.

No I know what you mean. City Square says to me 'This is Leeds' as does Millennium Square when events are on. City Square probably because at the moment it is the symbol of Leeds seen in every tourist brochure and the first sight for many visitors from the station. I don't really know whats in other cities to say 'This is..' though. Liverpool has its waterfront- but what do Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham have? I suppose Glasgow has the riverside.

To be honest, I can't think of anything I can associate strongly with Leeds - and please note, this really is NOT a trolling exercise, I just can't.

I'm from Brum, I'll declare that from the start, so run my post through whichever bias-filter you want. To answer your question, I'd say:

- Glasgow - I'd say the Mackintosh architecture
- Manchester - tricky one.
- Liverpool - the Liver buildings
- Birmingham - Selfridges is probably, after Swiss Re, the most iconic and instantly recognisable building of the last 20 years in Britain. The Rotunda is also pretty much as recognisable.

I honestly can't think of anything I'd associate Leeds with, any particular landmark. Not that this makes it a bad place. I've been to Leeds a few times and had a fantastic time, I went to uni in newcastle and had plenty of friends from the Leeds area. There's just nothing i automatically associate with the place.

I just think of it as the third biggest city in England, a hard-working, no-bullshit, big city.

One of the problems with Leeds allegedly 'not having an identity' has a lot to do with media agencies attitudes to the city.

I don't dispute what's been said above, but would question one little detail, is a 're-made centre' really preferable to something like the Victoria Quarter?

http://static.flickr.com/25/57491508_40f96c21fe.jpg?v=0

A question that could be asked, bearing in mind what's been said so far, could be 'Does Leeds need an iconic structure, and if so, what form should it take? (cultural/ office/ residential, etc)

One of the problems with Leeds allegedly 'not having an identity' has a lot to do with media agencies attitudes to the city.

I don't dispute what's been said above, but would question one little detail, is a 're-made centre' really preferable to something like the Victoria Quarter?

http://static.flickr.com/25/57491508_40f96c21fe.jpg?v=0

A question that could be asked, bearing in mind what's been said so far, could be 'Does Leeds need an iconic structure, and if so, what form should it take? (cultural/ office/ residential, etc)

That looks nice. It does sort of make my point, though. If you'd accosted me in the street and shown me that picture and asked me where it was, i wouldn't have had a clue.

I honestly can't think of anything I'd associate Leeds with

I think there is more to the identity of a city than man made structures.... I associate Leeds as being a thriving city situated withing some of the most uplifting areas if natural beauty this country has to offer. A major icon for this region is possibly someting like The Cow and Calf rocks.... a feature many people in this area seem to have a very close bond with.

Identity of a city itself has to develop naturally...it just becomes. It woulds be wrong to decide in advance what an identity should be because an identity just happens over time and is something that stands the test of time.


I think Leeds has a very strong identity...it is Leeds....I don't see the need to tie down the city, or to make it fit into a little box.... but prefer keep it open and flowing, moving and growing. One day it will slow and become stale and then people will point to one feature and say that represents Leeds...but for now let Leeds stay free and open and creative.

I do think Leeds has an identity definetley, just not recognised much outside Yorkshire. It is European looking though, modern- well you know what it is. I must say I would be suprised if someone on this site didn't know what the VQ was or what some building in Leeds was being a construction/city site, but among the general public there are few buildings or even natural features that I think could be nationally recognised.

yeh, before i went i thought it was going to be crap, by the time i had left, my opinions had been completely flattened and i now think it is a boss/ace/brilliant/cool city and i would love to go there for uni

most of my friends thought it was boss aswell.....but they had already been before, i was the newbee to it all

I think the problem that Leeds has had is that it didn't get the whole blowing-one's-own-trumpet thing until very recently. Consequently we're now blowing harder, so to speak, and that gives the impression of trying too hard. I have friends across the country, and that seems to be the consistent view.

That said, all of those friends who have visited have nothing bad to say about the place. Most impressively it was the ones from London who gave it the most glowing reports, saying that it seemed to have most things London offered, albeit on a far smaller scale, but with a friendlier atmosphere.

As for iconic structures, I think the Town Hall is instantly recognizable as a Leeds symbol. As it No.1 City Square. And the Queen's Hotel too, along with the Parkinson Building of Leeds Uni. However, I think in the next few years Bridgewater Place, Criterion Place and Lumiere will become major symbols too.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough.

Subliving.

To be honest, I can't think of anything I can associate strongly with Leeds

We should print it in big letters and just throw in a face of marketing wizards behind Leeds Live it Love it campaign. How many thousands, if not millions spent and what they've achieved, if people can't find anything to associate Leeds with, or think of it as a shithole prior to visiting?

We should print it in big letters and just throw in a face of marketing wizards behind Leeds Live it Love it campaign. How many thousands, if not millions spent and what they've achieved, if people can't find anything to associate Leeds with, or think of it as a shithole prior to visiting?

We could hire a B52 to fly around the coutry, using a strategic leaflet-dropping campain targeting other cities, informing them that there is another, better way to live?

Or, we could just fund a big-budget movie to be shot in Leeds?

Or, we could allow the city to grow and develop its identity naturally.

Subliving.

I think the problem that Leeds has had is that it didn't get the whole blowing-one's-own-trumpet thing until very recently.
because of the way this country is funded no city outside London has had reason to be proud until recently. 10 years ago each city outside London was at the best unheard or thought of as a dump!

Until the internet, sky/cable tv, and more recently still cheap overseas travel widened horizons I think this was the same lack of knowing less prominent cities with any country...you did well if you could get people to name the capital cities! Worse still people only knew the select few countries and their cities... 10 to 20 years ago the vast majority of the public had not travelled outside their local areas...maybe except one trip to the local Butlins/Haves etc... resort.

There has been a lot of change in a short time... not just in the regeneration of cities but changing mindsets.


I think TV shows also put some places on the map in the past..but not always in a great light.The shows based in Leeds tend to be much more subtle and higher class and don't tend to mention Leeds Leeds Leeds! Leeds is a youthful lively city with a touch of class.

There has been a lot of change in a short time... not just in the regeneration of cities but changing mindsets.


I agree with this. Even at the tender age of 19, I have noticed a complete shift in how regional cities are percieved. When I was younger, London was the only thing that mattered. Business, travel, shopping, if it wasn't London then it didn't matter.

More recently, regional cities have been recognised for their individual excellences. For example Leeds has been noticed for its night life, shopping and finance and law. Birmingham for it's concert facilities in the classical circle. Manchester for its skyline and modern architecture.

Regional cities in this county are definately becomming important and are getting the recognition they deserve.

Subliving.

'because of the way this country is funded no city outside London has had reason to be proud until recently.'


I disagree, cities likes Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Newcastle have never been short of civic pride and have historically much stronger cultural heritage and identity than Leeds. It is this more than anything else that gives them a stronger identity in the national consciousness.

Leeds in many respects reminds me of Frankfurt in Germay, a successful business city but with not much of an identity compared to some other provincial cities in that country. It is something Leeds can build up but it will probably take time.

cities likes Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Newcastle have never been short of civic pride and have historically much stronger cultural heritage and identity than Leeds. It is this more than anything else that gives them a stronger identity in the national consciousness.
these are all areas which were traditionally thought of as total dumps with overly strong local accents by those outside the cities...also , Glasgow, Liverpool and Newcastle are especially issolated nd so much more detatched from the rest of the country...to develop a strongly introverted pride is not lacking in any of our cities where b&b locals have always been strongly introvertedly proud of their home city no matter which city that is.. we are talking here of how outsiderd reach the point where they respect that pride and see it as valid and begin to share the pride .

Leeds is probably more like Manchester.. historically a regional base city ... specialising in diversity of fields such ..a little of a lot rather than srtong reliance on one industry and one commercial identity..so Liverpool you had the docks...but without the docks..? Sheffield steel..but without the steel...? Bradford textiles.... etc...

So leeds and Manchester are broarder cities... are mild cities with open identities ...and this is what saved them suffering too badly in the rescessions that tragically wiped out whole industries from other cities.

I think TV shows also put some places on the map in the past..but not always in a great light.The shows based in Leeds tend to be much more subtle and higher class and don't tend to mention Leeds Leeds Leeds! Leeds is a youthful lively city with a touch of class.

Unfortunately, after 7/7 it also got a lot of unfair bad publicity.

these are all areas which were traditionally thought of as total dumps with overly strong local accents by those outside the cities...also , Glasgow, Liverpool and Newcastle are especially issolated nd so much more detatched from the rest of the country...to develop a strongly introverted pride is not lacking in any of our cities where b&b locals have always been strongly introvertedly proud of their home city no matter which city that is.. we are talking here of how outsiderd reach the point where they respect that pride and see it as valid and begin to share the pride .

Leeds is probably more like Manchester.. historically a regional base city ... specialising in diversity of fields such ..a little of a lot rather than srtong reliance on one industry and one commercial identity..so Liverpool you had the docks...but without the docks..? Sheffield steel..but without the steel...? Bradford textiles.... etc...

So leeds and Manchester are broarder cities... are mild cities with open identities ...and this is what saved them suffering too badly in the rescessions that tragically wiped out whole industries from other cities.


You make some valid points but identity is identity and pride is pride no matter how it is created. I not talking about economic success or lack of it. Take the case of Liverpool, a city with a very strong music and sporting history and identity, chuck in the Mersey and 'scouse culture' (is that an oxymoron?!!) and you have a city bustling with pride (even in the dark days of the 1970's and 1980's) and a strong identity in the national conciousness. The same could be said of Glasgow.

Pride and identity are mutally exclusive though. The former can be built up in a city through many ways but that doesn't neccesarily mean that city with build an identity the resonates throughout the nation.

Leeds is a great economic success story but aside from that and having some nice shops what other image have we given out to the nation over the last few decades?

Without the Beatles would anyone think anything of Liverpool? And at what poimt did the mass population link them with Liverpool? And Glasgow..? I don't think that nationally any of thes cities have been on the general publics map. Even now sadly none of the cities outside London are really all that well though of outside their own city boundaries. We have a long way to go in the publicity wars to gain our cities wider levels of fame and appreciation. Within Leeds the locals have a lot of self pride...especially maybe in localised areas such as Headingly, Meanwood, etc... or even areas within these.... the locals seem to think very locally here.


Leeds is a great economic success story but aside from that and having some nice shops what other image have we given out to the nation over the last few decades?
what more can anyone want then great economic success?

[QUOTE=Molly]Without the Beatles would anyone think anything of Liverpool? And at what poimt did the mass population link them with Liverpool? And Glasgow..? I don't think that nationally any of thes cities have been on the general publics map. Even now sadly none of the cities outside London are really all that well though of outside their own city boundaries. We have a long way to go in the publicity wars to gain our cities wider levels of fame and appreciation. Within Leeds the locals have a lot of self pride...especially maybe in localised areas such as Headingly, Meanwood, etc... or even areas within these.... the locals seem to think very locally here.

Liverpool, well how about the other music bands of the last few decades. Liverpool FC. The Grand National, the Docks, the Mersey, Scousers and as we speak the Open golf championship. European city of Culture in 2 years.

Glasgow, the Clyde, ship-building and docks, music, Celtic and Rangers, European city of Culture circa 1990 etc etc

True both cities are also sometimes unfairly indentified as crime ridden holes but even this build a identity in the national conciousness.

I would bet my house that if you did a random survey of people in the south and asked for their image of or what identifies Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow you would get far more answers for the latter 3 cities than the ours.

Between the Grand National(700 Million +) and the British Open Golf(400 Million) Liverpool will have a Worldwide audience of well over a Billion viewers and the British Open is back here in our Capital of Culture year and the Grand National is an annual event,and that not even including the viewing figures for the visit of the Worlds most powerful woman Condoleeza Rice,the Worlds press were here for that also.Cream is another Global Liverpool brand they have events from South America to Russia and is resident in Ibiza along with a little known Liverpool club called Garlands.The Mersey Tunnels are famous and the ferries are the most famous in the World.The music scene was much more than The Beatles Merseybeat conquered the World and introduced British music to the lucrative American market for the first time.Everton football club are famous they are still this countrys 5th most successful club so you can't discount them either.We are famous for being the only city to have two cathedrals also.When you have International artists like Chuck Berry calling an album from St Louis to Liverpool and Suzanne Vega writing songs about your city you know you've arrived,I really could go on but I think I've proved my point our identity is very strong indeed.

I heard some scousers on Radio 4 last week banging on about how 'special' the people and city are. I'm not anti-Liverpool by any means but it is rather wearing after a while.


Leeds is a great economic success story but aside from that and having some nice shops what other image have we given out to the nation over the last few decades?

Not really over the last few decades but i think most of these are fairly significant. Hmm, got a bit hot under the collar with that Liverpool response, maybe i need to cool off a bit.

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.tadesign.co.uk/images/mands_logo.gif

http://www.scenta.co.uk/_db/_images/movie%20camera.gif

http://www.scultura-italiana.com/Scultori_estero/immagini/Moore%20Henry%20-%20Figura%20giacente%20-%20Gamba%20ad%20arco%20(Giappone,%20Hakone%20Museum,%201969-70).jpg

We could hire a B52 to fly around the coutry, using a strategic leaflet-dropping campain targeting other cities, informing them that there is another, better way to live?

Nope. Tried, and it did not work.

Or, we could just fund a big-budget movie to be shot in Leeds?

I wish, but they like Tunisia for the most natural light colour.

Or, we could allow the city to grow and develop its identity naturally.

That's right, now I am with you. And all wasted marketing money should have been spent on something nice and useful, i.e. re-modelling Victoria Square.

the visit of the Worlds most powerful woman Condoleeza Rice

Sure you mean the World's ugliest?

Sure you mean the World's ugliest?

She floats my boat/ gets my vote.

I would bet my house that if you did a random survey of people in the south and asked for their image of or what identifies Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow you would get far more answers for the latter 3 cities than the ours.

I'm not sure what your argument is..I already said Leeds and even Manchester have wider very loose identity which will evolve nsaturally... so they do not have the set established image the Liverpool and Glasgow have marked for themselves...largely because they have not really marketed one! They haven't needed to. Both cities mostly just market themselves on being popular and thriving places to live and work. But also sadly if you mention Liverpool and Glasgow to people most likely the response will be a poor attempt at the accents! Not many people are al that interested in knowing the identity of other cities or knowing anything about cities....I'm sure you over estimate the Brisish public.

I think Liverpool, Newcastle and to a certin extent, Birmingham, all suffer from negative stereotypes rather than bask in any strong cultural identity.

Leeds and Manchester don't have a stereotypical image to the same extent. There's no such thing as a typical Loiner or Manc (well there is, but it's not nationally recognised).

I think some cities like to foster stereotypes. I was having a drink with a Geordie and asked if he would like another, he said, "Of course, like. I'm a Geordie". My reply was along the lines of "So fucking what?" This fella was convinced that the world had Geordies pegged as heavy drinkers. A Manc once told me they were renowned for fighting???????? Maybe in Manchester?

Liverpool is known for crime, yet it's crime rate is lower than that of Trumpton on a bank holiday. It's also known for it's "Famous Scouse wit". Hmmm, who told Scousers they were funny anyway? Paul O'Grady anyone? Tarbuck? Tom O'Connor? Didn't Ken Dodd support Bill Hicks?

Leeds tends to come under the generic Yorkshire stereotype, plain talking, tight fisted etc, yawn. Let the city speak for itself.

Here's an interesting thought experiment. Pick a city, close your eyes and try and imagine what a postcard (of the built environment, and not one of those tacky partitioned ones) sent from that city would look like. In my mind's eye I'm seeing:

London - could be the Houses of Parliament, St. Paul's Cathedral, bridges over the Thames, even the London Eye.
Liverpool - the Liver Buildings from across the Mersey
Newcastle - bridges over the Tyne.
Nottingham - Old Market Square.
Edinburgh - Castle.

Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, and sadly Leeds don't have an instant "look" that springs right onto the theoretical postcard in my head...

She floats my boat/ gets my vote.

OMG. Hope it's just a summer heat thing.

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/condi_wmd.jpg

Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, and sadly Leeds don't have an instant "look" that springs right onto the theoretical postcard in my head...

I think you are wrong - Leeds Town Hall is immediately recognisable. A picture of it always acts as a backdrop whenever there is an item on local government on the BBC.

The council conducted an extensive survey on Leeds' image, with participants from in Leeds, in Yorkshire, in the north, in the UK, in Europe, and elswhere.

The conclusions were interesting, it was less known than the likes of Liverpool and Newcastle as it is very much a late starter without a defining stereotype, (the main exception being Leeds Utd, known certainly across Europe from the 60s). However it scored well as more recently being highly loved by it's residents and those in Yorkshire, certainly higher than the national average. This was the back-drop to all the Leeds City Council's big advertising campaigns they have had (Live it, Love it, No ordinary city etc etc) to get the name out there.

It's main image (one I could validate) will be a new one of a/the northern commercial centre/capital, as that image is being sent out far and wide.

I think you are wrong - Leeds Town Hall is immediately recognisable. A picture of it always acts as a backdrop whenever there is an item on local government on the BBC.

it has to be civic hall for me. it looks so grand!

I think you are wrong - Leeds Town Hall is immediately recognisable. A picture of it always acts as a backdrop whenever there is an item on local government on the BBC.

but not many people out side West Yorkshire would know it was 'Leeds' Town Hall

That is very true; while watching look north the other night and they were renovating the clock, some people thought it was the Royal Hall clock here in Harrogate; I dont really see how it resembles it at all but oh well. Its a landmark and an icon for Leeds but it is not well know outside of the city even.

...wow....not feel safe! What are you?... some great big overgrown wimp! lol!


...so out of interest if Leeds feels unsafe where feels safe for you?
Everywhere excpet Leeds :)

Everywhere excpet Leeds :)

Is life so bad in Sheffield. :)

Is life so bad in Sheffield. :)
No quite the opposite.

The thread is all about peopl'es opinions on Leeds and that is mine!

I agree with an earlier post that i think Molly wrote,saying that Leeds wasn't hit as bad as Sheffield, Liverpool etc. when the recession was on. This has helped Leeds progress more so than these effected cities.

No quite the opposite.

The thread is all about peopl'es opinions on Leeds and that is mine!

I agree with an earlier post that i think Molly wrote,saying that Leeds wasn't hit as bad as Sheffield, Liverpool etc. when the recession was on. This has helped Leeds progress more so than these effected cities.

Your post spoke volumes. If you had said you tend to feel a bit unsafe in Leeds I'd have thought fair enough. You said you feel safe "Everywhere excpet Leeds" which is a bit pathetic really.

I think you are wrong - Leeds Town Hall is immediately recognisable. A picture of it always acts as a backdrop whenever there is an item on local government on the BBC.

No, no it is not. Not outside Leeds, anyway.

Oh no; it is immediately recognisable. But you have to know what it is and where it is first; thats the problem. Most town and city halls can be immediately linked with a city; its just an issue to make sure people know what the building is and where it is. Im sure even people in Leeds if given a picture of the building could say 'oh yeah its that one on The Headrow' but not know what it is at all. The average Briton probably doesnt know about the Beetham towers, or some of Canary Wharf's towers- it'd be like 'nice tower, where is it?'.

Once they know where it is, they can identify it with Leeds because there are no other buildings like it.

I think most people (90%) in Leeds know that "that building on the Headrow" is the Town Hall.

Paulie was saying that it's not recognisable around the UK, which it isn't.

Outside of London, which has Big Ben, Tower Bridge etc I would say the only recognisable landmarks/views (excluding football grounds) are Liverpool's Liver Building across the Mersey and Newcastle's Tyne Bridge. Maybe some of the older cathedrals.

I don't think that Selfridges building in Birmingham is instantly recognisable (yet). I know for a fact most people in Leeds and most other places wouldn't have a clue what it was if they were shown a picture of it. You either know a City and Its buildings well, or you don't.

I think most people (90%) in Leeds know that "that building on the Headrow" is the Town Hall.

Paulie was saying that it's not recognisable around the UK, which it isn't.

Outside of London, which has Big Ben, Tower Bridge etc I would say the only recognisable landmarks/views (excluding football grounds) are Liverpool's Liver Building across the Mersey and Newcastle's Tyne Bridge. Maybe some of the older cathedrals.

There's no point really comparing any cities in the UK with London, London is one of four or five world megacities and as such has so many iconic views to choose from.

You're right about the Liver Building and the Tyne bridge, they're probably two of the most instantly recognisable buildings.

And as you said - cathedrals? York Minster maybe? Or would the average bod on the street know one cathedral from another with the exception of St Paul's?

How about Blackpool Tower?

Incidentally, this is quite an interesting site:

http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons

EDIT incidentally, I think in decades to come, La Lumiere will almost certainly be Leeds' instantly recognisable building.

I recently had to spend 4 weeks in Leeds with my father who was admitted to LGI unexpectantly. Up until then I'd never visited nor thought about visiting Leeds. Its a fantastic city, with friendly people and great shops but it does lack a significant landmark. LGI is right by the town hall but I honestly couldn't tell you what it looked like, it is also by the university but I still couldn't tell you what that looks like either. I was staying in the city centre for 4 weeks, if I can't think of a decent landmark then what image will other people who have never visited Leeds think of?? Up until then I didn't really know anything about Leeds even though I regularly visit my family in York.

Leeds is a great place, I really love it, but until the city council's tourism team generate some sort of an image/brand in peoples' minds then people will choose other cities to visit.

What struck me about Leeds was that overall, it seemed (and probably is) quite an affluent place...particularly the suburbs and inner city.

It seemed more compact, with a smaller gap between rich and poor areas compared with other cities i've visited, which seemed to be hugely juxtaposed (i.e. Manc and Liverpool).

However, although i thought the city centre was quite nice, i just didn't get a feel for the place...no atmosphere or buzz.

But i think this is mainly due to spending most of my visit around the main shopping streets and not getting to see the more unique/bohemian areas...which go un-detected by visitors in most cities unless you know where you're going!

Overall...a nice city which is sharing the national boom of new developments and (mostly) positive regeneration.

Id say you don't get much of a feel for the city in the shopping districts except maybe the Victoria Quarter- the markets and CornX often appear as attractions in tourist mags but when you're in them there's not much 'buzz'. Sometimes theres a buzz in the shopping area though; usually when the street performers are out, with the street cafés in the sun. But up around The Light, Millennium Square, Park Row; particularly on evenings there is alot of life and atmosphere.

Leeds is also a relitavely wealthy city; the northern suburbs are exceptionally affluent- part of the golden triangle. Naturally, the central areas are wealthy too- its poorest area is the 36th poorest ward in the UK- I think this is Harehills but Im not sure.

I think York Minster is an icon, but I don't think that many people outside the region would recognise it as York Minster; except for its size, it looks like any other minster or some cathedrals really. Same with Humber Bridge- an icon but looks like any other Bridge. The Angel of the North is a well recognised icon for the North East though definetley; as is Edinburgh Castle for Edinburgh obviously. Come to think of it, trying to list icons for each city is quite hard- there arent that many! Brighton Pavillion =/

I went to Leeds yesterday for the first time in ten years. In 1996 I lived in Coventry, so Leeds impressed - as did anywhere, given the frame of reference. Now I live in London, but unlike most Londoners, I've got a lot of time for the UK's other cities. I feel strangely loyal to Birmingham in particular, a city which continues to impress and depress in equal measure. I love Cardiff and Leicester's arcades and variety of independent shops, the scale and proportions of Nottingham city centre's Victorian streets, Sheffield's Peace and Winter Gardens, Bristol's elegant terraces, and so on.

My favourite regional city is, I'm afraid, Manchester - not just because I think it does things much better than any of its rivals but because it has a certain something - something in the air. Only the big-headedness of some Militant Mancunians puts me off, but I'd grudgingly admit the arrogance is partly earned.

So how does Leeds fare? Well, it's got some decent Victorian architecture, some lovely arcades, superb shopping (with more planned? As if it needs any more), great cafes, bars and restaurants. In fact I find it very pleasant. The new tower under construction looks good. That new building adjacent to the (fabulous) Corn Exchange, with its gorgeous green and blue glazed terracotta, is one of the most tastefully executed 21st Century buildings I've seen anywhere in the country.

On the downside, some of the new apartment blocks are even more hideous than similar variants elsewhere, and there are still a few too many hideous shopping centres. I felt the city centre was barren and lacked greenery; the Headrow would make a great tree-lined boulevard such as you'd find in French and German cities, but instead it seemed a bit bereft.

My main thought regarding Leeds, though, is that it isn't a terribly memorable city. It's fine, and yet... blah. Why does it not occupy a place in the nation's consciousness? Why has such a large city failed to forge a distinctive identity? It seems odd that - until the past few years, at least - Leeds had produced so few bands, and even now, culturally, I feel it punches below its weight. Ultimately, it profoundly lacks Manchester's snap, crackle and pop. Even Sheffield and Birmingham have more of a buzz.

I'd enjoy going back, surely, but wouldn't make a point of it. Oh, and finally: Alastair Darling's decision to scrap trams for Leeds - its streets are perfect for them and the city's size more than justifies it - is an absolute discgrace.

Not having a recognisable 'identity' could actually work in Leeds' favour. As post#64 says, we're relatively free of the negative stereotyping that dogs cities such as Liverpool, Newcastle or Birmingham. This could mean we have a degree of freedom to construct our identity in the way we would like (provided we aren't dubbed 'Britain's terrorist capital' or something equally ludicrous)

A Chinese girl who visited Leeds on Friday told me she really enjoyed the city, in particular its 'magnificent' buildings such as VQ and the Town Hall.

That new building adjacent to the (fabulous) Corn Exchange, with its gorgeous green and blue glazed terracotta, is one of the most tastefully executed 21st Century buildings I've seen anywhere in the country.


Wait till Fred2 sees this ;)

My Great Aunt from London didn't even know where Leeds was... Granted she's a London-phile, Megolopolis-phile and small-city-phobe. However, it does kinda prove that Leeds is a little anonymous on the international map.

I think we should form a huge circle, facing outwards and wave at the rest of the world to say hello. Maybe they'd see us then? :p

Subliving.

Wait till Fred2 sees this ;)

Absolutely right - I nearly had a fit !

But it's not just me. The Civic Trust, which first approved of the building, has changed its mind and now thinks it is very poor. As a building it is OK, but both I and the CT are considering its effect in the context of it being adjacent to the Corn Exchange.

It seems odd that - until the past few years, at least - Leeds had produced so few bands, and even now, culturally, I feel it punches below its weight. Ultimately, it profoundly lacks Manchester's snap, crackle and pop. Even Sheffield and Birmingham have more of a buzz.



as a music journalist myself i would have to strongly disagree with this comment, granted leeds in the past have never had the music but the last few years have seen leeds, along with sheffield, overtake rivals like liverpool and manchester for the moment.
bands such as;
the kaiser chiefs, black wire, the cribs and the research (wakefield bands but still very much part of the leeds scene), similar with embrace, the sugars, the ivories, dead disco, the music, the sunshine underground (via shrewsbury). heavier bands such as penknifelovelife are a internet phenominon. bailey corrine ray, and shlomo also spring to mind.
whilst sheffield can boast the long blondes, the arctic monkeys, and the harrisons.
i think i've probably gone too far now but yorkshire is definatley the place to be at the moment musically, it may just be a fad but that remains to be seen.

[QUOTE=Subliving]My Great Aunt from London didn't even know where Leeds was... Granted she's a London-phile, Megolopolis-phile and small-city-phobe. However, it does kinda prove that Leeds is a little anonymous on the international map.

QUOTE]


I put a lap-top up for sale at work and got a reply from someone working in our London office. She said she would like to pop round one evening to see it, I then asked her if she was visiting Leeds to which she replied no and seemed rather suprised when I told her Leeds was 200 miles from London!

I think she thought Leeds (and probably numerous other UK towns and cities) were suburbs of London.

I put a lap-top up for sale at work and got a reply from someone working in our London office. She said she would like to pop round one evening to see it, I then asked her if she wasn't visiting Leeds to which she replied no and seemed rather suprised when I told her Leeds was 200 miles from London!

I think she thought Leeds (and probably numerous other UK towns and cities) were suburbs of London.

It's amazing how much closer Leeds is to London, than London is to Leeds, hey? :p

Subliving.

I put a lap-top up for sale at work and got a reply from someone working in our London office. She said she would like to pop round one evening to see it, I then asked her if she was visiting Leeds to which she replied no and seemed rather suprised when I told her Leeds was 200 miles from London!

I think she thought Leeds (and probably numerous other UK towns and cities) were suburbs of London.

It is amazing how parochial many Londoners are, and that old saw about anything north of Watford Gap being unknown (and unknowable) terrritory really holds good. However, I must be very careful as my wife is a Londoner ! :)

re: post #84

An interesting post. Although there seems to be a recurring idea (on SSC generally) that a city's identity emerges almost exclusively from how much popular music it produces.

It is amazing how parochial many Londoners are, and that old saw about anything north of Watford Gap being unknown (and unknowable) terrritory really holds good. However, I must be very careful as my wife is a Londoner ! :)

My mother spent most of her youthful years in our capital. For some reason though, she never picked up any of the London-centric crap. Not that I don't like London, just, there are other places.

Subliving.

as a music journalist myself i would have to strongly disagree with this comment, granted leeds in the past have never had the music but the last few years have seen leeds, along with sheffield, overtake rivals like liverpool and manchester for the moment.
bands such as;
the kaiser chiefs, black wire, the cribs and the research (wakefield bands but still very much part of the leeds scene), similar with embrace, the sugars, the ivories, dead disco, the music, the sunshine underground (via shrewsbury). heavier bands such as penknifelovelife are a internet phenominon. bailey corrine ray, and shlomo also spring to mind.
whilst sheffield can boast the long blondes, the arctic monkeys, and the harrisons.
i think i've probably gone too far now but yorkshire is definatley the place to be at the moment musically, it may just be a fad but that remains to be seen.


Wahey Alexi, delighted to hear someone else mention The Cribs on SSC! The best live band around IMO. Forward Russia are another superb Leeds band (saw them at the Garage in Highbury last week and lost half a stone in sweat :D ) and from listening to the Dance to the Radio sampler CDs there's a lot more Leeds based talent coming through such as Yes Boss! and the Pigeon Detectives. Not at all impressed with The Music or Sunshine Underground tho and don't even get me started on Embrace ;)

Continuing south to Sheff, I've been impressed with Bromheads Jacket, saw them for the first time last weekend, they're very clever lyrically.

Who do you write for? I'm an enthusiastic amateur myself so would be interested to hear from a pro who to keep an ear out for.

I found on my travels that being from Leeds that was was alway reminded of the Revie team's style of football. Dirty Leeds I would hear as I walk into a room, unless it was a reference my own washing habits. I don't know. I think that up 't' north our city's are often associated with what the people produce not building or landmarks. Sheffield steel, Manchester's Music, Liverpool's football team etc etc. Leeds had a brief window of footballing greatness, no more it seems. However I think Leeds is a diverse city that can claim many things to it's name, perhaps it's better that way. It's certainly has a draw to it, look at the expanding student population, they know culture when they see it.

I heard some scousers on Radio 4 last week banging on about how 'special' the people and city are. I'm not anti-Liverpool by any means but it is rather wearing after a while.
I agree, a superiority complex by the natives is just as bad as negative stereotyping by outsiders. However, I don't think it's just Liverpool which does this. Any person or institution that wants to promote their home town is likely to praise the city and its people. Living in Sheffield for three years, I experienced this quite a lot in the form of Yorkshire-based pride ("God's county", Lancashire being on the "wrong side of the Pennines" and all that).

As far as I see Leeds it's more a Yorkshire metropolis than its own city, rather like Sheffield. To me, Liverpool seems the exact opposite, a city which sees itself as its own region irrespective of the surrounding area. I mean, how many people nowadays equate Liverpool with Lancashire? Leeds on the other hand is still viewed by most people as Yorkshire through and through.

Wahey Alexi, delighted to hear someone else mention The Cribs on SSC! The best live band around IMO. Forward Russia are another superb Leeds band (saw them at the Garage in Highbury last week and lost half a stone in sweat :D ) and from listening to the Dance to the Radio sampler CDs there's a lot more Leeds based talent coming through such as Yes Boss! and the Pigeon Detectives. Not at all impressed with The Music or Sunshine Underground tho and don't even get me started on Embrace ;)

Continuing south to Sheff, I've been impressed with Bromheads Jacket, saw them for the first time last weekend, they're very clever lyrically.

Who do you write for? I'm an enthusiastic amateur myself so would be interested to hear from a pro who to keep an ear out for.

LOL, my other daily haunt apart from SSC is the much roudier Leeds Music Forum where even my band gets the odd mention. I come on here for a bit of piece and quiet so reading about Forward Russia, TSU, and the Pigeon Detectives is a bit disconcerting!!!

Anyway, I'm suprised I haven't seen mention of iLIKETRAiNS and my personal favourite at the moment Frankie Eisenhower (saw them at the Tea Time Shuffle the other friday).

Check it out Leeds, you have the best music scene in the country at the mo right under your own noses.... :cheers:

http://www.leedsmusicforum.co.uk/

LOL, my other daily haunt apart from SSC is the much roudier Leeds Music Forum where even my band gets the odd mention. I come on here for a bit of piece and quiet so reading about Forward Russia, TSU, and the Pigeon Detectives is a bit disconcerting!!!

Anyway, I'm suprised I haven't seen mention of iLIKETRAiNS and my personal favourite at the moment Frankie Eisenhower (saw them at the Tea Time Shuffle the other friday).

Check it out Leeds, you have the best music scene in the country at the mo right under your own noses.... :cheers:

http://www.leedsmusicforum.co.uk/

you must have been in stasis Jonaldo, been v. quiet of late.

well, welcome back, though as Smoggie knows my modern music tastes are shocking and I've not a clue of who most of these current Leeds bands are. Testament is that I've got a shuffle between Steely Dan and Johnny Cash currently on the IPod dock. Hmmm, there may be an urgent need to fast forward 30 years or so.

you must have been in stasis Jonaldo, been v. quiet of late.

well, welcome back, though as Smoggie knows my modern music tastes are shocking and I've not a clue of who most of these current Leeds bands are. Testament is that I've got a shuffle between Steely Dan and Johnny Cash currently on the IPod dock. Hmmm, there may be an urgent need to fast forward 30 years or so.


I'm here everyday Jimbo, just observing and enjoying Leeds' current boom. I just never have anything important to enlighten anyone about.

Steely Dan is bouncing around on my CD player at the mo also (Larry Carlton is one of my fav guitar players). If you like Jonny Cash then try and check out this guy Angelo Palladino (http://www.angelopalladino.com/) he's often seen playing round Leeds ( I believe he lives in Rawdon or something as I've seen him round there in his work overalls).

As for new Leeds bands, I recommend everyone to get out to places like the Tea Time Shuffle, New Roscoe, Joesph's Well, etc.... there really is some fantastic stuff out there.

I don't actually agree with Leeds still being Leeds, Yorkshire. I think most people view the regional cities as the city not as part of the region. Leeds does tend to promote itself as Leeds not as part of Yorkshire but it does use the region to try and maximise its assets. When I think Yorkshire I think Yorkshire Dales, Emmerdale, Yorkshire Moors, Scarborough, York and Bradford/Huddersfield/Wakefield. But Leeds is completely different from the rest of Yorkshire so I think of it differently. I don't know about other people though.

When I think Yorkshire I think Yorkshire Dales, Emmerdale, Yorkshire Moors, Scarborough, York and Bradford/Huddersfield/Wakefield. But Leeds is completely different from the rest of Yorkshire so I think of it differently. I don't know about other people though.

Unfortunately, what you or I think of it is appears to be different from what some tourist people think. The tourist office at Leeds Station completely ignores Leeds in its title of 'Gateway to Yorkshire'.

That's because it is in Leeds City Station, incorporating the word "Leeds" into the title would only serve those people who didn't know where they were

That's because it is in Leeds City Station, incorporating the word "Leeds" into the title would only serve those people who didn't know where they were

Oh I see. So if the tourist office was not in the station it would definitely have had Leeds in its title. I assume there is a tourist office in Sheffield. Is that in the station and wherever it is what is its title?

I don't know about Sheffield's tourist office. Try asking on the Sheffield board?

I think Gateway Yorkshire is an ideal way to promote Leeds. It literally is a gateway to Yorkshire and all the wonderful things therein. I don't think there's enough in Leeds to justify calling it a tourist destination. Liverpool, London and Edinburgh are the only UK tourist spots.

Leeds is a great base from which to explore Yorkshire. In itself, there's little more than shopping and drinking with the odd ropey attraction.

Leeds is a great base from which to explore Yorkshire. In itself, there's little more than shopping and drinking with the odd ropey attraction.



You seem to making accusations about Leeds which if I were to make them would attract abuse and opprobrium. Do you live in Leeds ?

Yes I do.

What "accusations" am I making? That Leeds has little to offer tourists compared with London, Liverpool and Edinburgh? Who would disagree with that?

Unfortunately, what you or I think of it is appears to be different from what some tourist people think. The tourist office at Leeds Station completely ignores Leeds in its title of 'Gateway to Yorkshire'.

I suspect that this is more to do with the usual marketing types who love mission statements and meaningless titles. I doubt it means Leeds is less important than Yorkshire - if you see what I mean?

I agree with a lot of the comments on here that Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds don't seem to have a single iconic building that others immediately recognise (like Liverpool and Edinburgh do ) and maybe Bristol doesn't either (Clifton suspension bridge excepting?) and I don't think Sheffield does either.

Not sure how Leeds markets itself tourist wise but understand it has a good shopping centre which brings in business from much further afield no doubt.
Perhaps the fact that I don't know is significant in itself?

Yes I do.

What "accusations" am I making? That Leeds has little to offer tourists compared with London, Liverpool and Edinburgh? Who would disagree with that?

No. You said something rather different - you asserted that " In itself, there's little more than shopping and drinking with the odd ropey attraction."

If I had said that people would have been down on me like a ton of bricks !
So far you have escaped unscathed !

Fred, i for one appreciate your opinions even if i may at times think they are a tad pessimistic. They are however necessary to remind some us of some of the implications projects may have that we dont necessarily think are important amidst the giddiness about such things as Lumiere. You provide this forum with one side of the spectrum where Leeds No.1 resides at the other side. This spectrum keeps checks and balances; healthy debate.

From an outsider with neither prejudice nor bias toward Leeds, I have to say, that my perception of Leeds is a city struggling for its own image. There can be no town or city in the UK of its, or a comparable size that is so obscure in media and popular culture references. I can't think of one great Leeds landmark that is known about, one great thing associated with the city that most people would know, other than its second tier football team, and while most people know what a London, Liverpool, Glasgow, Birmingham even Bristol accent would sound like, I'd struggle to think of a Loiner one. Most people wouldn't even know that the good people of Leeds are nicknamed Loiners. I'm afraid York probably has a much higher profile. At least you escape the stereotypes that most cities are subjected to, but maybe thats a bad thing as well. I can't really think of any city which has less of a place in the national media or culture than Leeds, and thats not because I dislike it, far from it, by one memory of Leeds is quite positive, but in terms of cultural impacy, I think you need to be building quite a few more of those iconic buildings, before anyone outside of urban architecture forums is going to have proper familiarity with you.

From an outsider with neither prejudice nor bias toward Leeds, I have to say, that my perception of Leeds is a city struggling for its own image. There can be no town or city in the UK of its, or a comparable size that is so obscure in media and popular culture references. I can't think of one great Leeds landmark that is known about, one great thing associated with the city that most people would know, other than its second tier football team, and while most people know what a London, Liverpool, Glasgow, Birmingham even Bristol accent would sound like, I'd struggle to think of a Loiner one. Most people wouldn't even know that the good people of Leeds are nicknamed Loiners. I'm afraid York probably has a much higher profile. At least you escape the stereotypes that most cities are subjected to, but maybe thats a bad thing as well. I can't really think of any city which has less of a place in the national media or culture than Leeds, and thats not because I dislike it, far from it, by one memory of Leeds is quite positive, but in terms of cultural impacy, I think you need to be building quite a few more of those iconic buildings, before anyone outside of urban architecture forums is going to have proper familiarity with you.

Great post. Accents is interesting, all the places you name have identifiable city accents, Loiners and Mancs have a "Northern" accent. People from either city can identify the difference but can the rest of the country?
Look at TV programmes. Coronation Street, Shameless, Queer as Folk, Life On Mars and the new series about postmen (Sorted?) are set in Manchester and the viewer is left in no doubt where the series are set. Liverpool had Brookside etc to get on with, what recent series did/has Leeds have/got? Emmerdale (set in a village near Leeds, filmed in Leeds), The Braithwaites (no mention of Leeds), Fat Friends (no mention of Leeds), No Angels, (House looked over Elland Road!), North Square, A Touch Of Frost (Denton?????) etc etc all filmed in Leeds, but used Leeds as a backdrop rather than part of the script.

BUT, a big but this, I'm not that bothered about our lack of media savvy. I'd rather be anonymous than a city of overworn stereotypes. Is it any coincidence that the 2 least identifiable cities in the North (in terms of national perception, Leeds and Manc) are the two leading the way? I dunno, but it's a talking point for sure. God knows there has been times when I have seriously considered sacrificing myself at the alter of Scouse or Geordie just to get a good night's kip.....

Fred, i for one appreciate your opinions even if i may at times think they are a tad pessimistic. They are however necessary to remind some us of some of the implications projects may have that we dont necessarily think are important amidst the giddiness about such things as Lumiere. You provide this forum with one side of the spectrum where Leeds No.1 resides at the other side. This spectrum keeps checks and balances; healthy debate.


Congratulations, Leeds_John. A most sensible contribution. We do have to have different points of view aired freely and that does promote healthy debate.
Even in this forum in praise of skyscrapers we have to realise that mere height does not necessarily matter. We need good design and appreciation of the context of the building and the environment generally. My point of view comes with my advanced age (which some people accuse me of flaunting at the slightest opportunity). That does not necessarily make me wiser, but I do have the experience of having lived through times and seen things which most contributors may only have read about. For example, not many of you will have seen Leeds prior to the introduction of the Clean Air Act of 1956 ( a most underrated piece of legoislation which has produced tremendous benefits) The Queens Hotel and the Town Hall and many other city centre buildings were literally as black as soot. So I have actually experienced these and other great changes for the better in Leeds which most of you will never have imagined except partially from old black and white photographs.

My Dad's from the North East and he's always said Leeds lacks the profile of Newcastle simply because the Leeds accent is difficult to separate from a wider Yorkshire/Northerness.

I'm not sure Leeds is 'struggling for an identity'. I've been walking around the city in the last couple of days and I think Leeds is quite sure of what it is and where it's going. The problem is getting a London-based media to sit up and take notice of us on our own terms. I don't buy the 'Leeds lacks iconic buildings' line either. If the view of the Town Hall from the Headrow isn't iconic i don't know what is.

http://static.flickr.com/33/97623645_008b344291.jpg?v=0

I'm not arguing against the things that have been said so far. I just don't think there is an intrinsic problem with Leeds, the problem lies elsewhere.

My Dad's from the North East and he's always said Leeds lacks the profile of Newcastle simply because the Leeds accent is difficult to separate from a wider Yorkshire/Northerness.

I'm not sure Leeds is 'struggling for an identity'. I've been walking around the city in the last couple of days and I think Leeds is quite sure of what it is and where it's going. The problem is getting a London-based media to sit up and take notice of us on our own terms. I don't buy the 'Leeds lacks iconic buildings' line either. If the view of the Town Hall from the Headrow isn't iconic i don't know what is.

I'm not arguing against the things that have been said so far. I just don't think there is an intrinsic problem with Leeds, the problem lies elsewhere.

I agree.

...I don't buy the 'Leeds lacks iconic buildings' line either. If the view of the Town Hall from the Headrow isn't iconic i don't know what is.

I'm not arguing against the things that have been said so far. I just don't think there is an intrinsic problem with Leeds, the problem lies elsewhere.

So far we've learned that outsiders are absolutely unaware of what Leeds is, and can't associate it with any of its iconic buildings (Town Hall, Victoria Quarters....) or rock bands. I will again come to the same conclusion about poor(est) comminication of those responsible to market the city. What this stupid stolen slogan "leeds live it love it" comminicates to those who's never been to a city? I tried to think of an example of an opposite, and remembered a marketing for Slovenia when it just separated from Yugoslavia, so nobody knew about it. Their slogan was "The Sunny Side of the Alps" and it was right to the point, so many years later I still remember it.

Someone mentioned that train magazines seldom have articles about Leeds, I think more efforts could be made to fix this.

On the subject of train magazine articles, on a GNER train the other day they had a feature on the 5 must see places in Britain, with a large section on Leeds promoting it's attractions etc...

A few years ago I was visiting the Ridings Centre in Wakefield. At the information desk there were many leaflets describing tourist attractions, some quite a long way away - but none about nearby Leeds.
I was particularly annoyed that there was nothing available about Thwaite Mills Museum which is just a few miles from Wakefield and which is nearer to it, and much quicker to get to than from my home in north Leeds. Don't know if things have changed but I doubt it.

I will again come to the same conclusion about poor(est) comminication of those responsible to market the city. What this stupid stolen slogan "leeds live it love it" comminicates to those who's never been to a city?


If you know the city, you love it. But surely the whole point of the campaign should be to sell the city to people who don't know it. Picking up the Guardian Guide on a Saturday I've seen advertisements for cultural offerings in Nottingham, Manchester and Birmingham. So far, there hasn't been a single murmur from marketing Leeds on the national scene. I hope they're building up to it, but i doubt it. Personally, I prefer Simon Armitage's variation: Like It, Lump It.

Their slogan was "The Sunny Side of the Alps" and it was right to the point, so many years later I still remember it.

Equally inspired is the recent It's never dull in Hull.

About the accent, I never really notice a Leeds accent- I dont notice a strong one anyway- I go to any city and they all seem to speak similarly- a few exceptions like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow.

And I dont think lots of Leeds people know they're 'Loiners'.

I visited Leeds in april looking at Leeds Metropolitan, never been there before in my life but loved it so much im moving there in september. Loved the atmosphere about the place, great city centre.

Its always usefull for a city to have such a swell sight for visitors emerging from the railway station

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/ubermensch23/IMG_0132.jpg

About the accent, I never really notice a Leeds accent- I dont notice a strong one anyway- I go to any city and they all seem to speak similarly- a few exceptions like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow.

And I dont think lots of Leeds people know they're 'Loiners'.

Erm what about Jimmy Savile. Granted he is a bit of a nutter but I guess even so he does to some extent provide a sterotype for Leeds although I guess a particularly remote example which plenty of people could perhaps believe outside of the city.

Also what about how Leeds is depicted in television and in film. Despite having one of only three significant ITV studios remaining in England by having Yorkshire Television (with others being LWT in London and Granada in Manchester) and having major television studios is certainly a major asset for this city which is certainly true with closures of studios in cities including Nottingham, Birmingham and Southampton in recent years. However surely the image of Leeds will improve has there being any attempt at making a programme based in Leeds that is not aimed at the programmes your mum watches of the likes of Fat Friends etc. I would certainly love to see a cool TV programme set in Leeds breaking the old stereotypes of Hovis adverts, dark satanic mills, flat caps, being tight with te old brass etc. Perhaps this could be done by a modern version of something like The A Team or The Sweeney. :cheers: :)

Perhaps Sir Jimmy could be Hannibal?

About the accent, I never really notice a Leeds accent- I dont notice a strong one anyway- I go to any city and they all seem to speak similarly- a few exceptions like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow.

That's the problem right there. Leeds does have a distinctive accent. For example, hear the mellifluous tones of Alara Gee on T4's Shipwrecked, it's a distinctive and actually quite attractive accent which always reminds me of home.

And I dont think lots of Leeds people know they're 'Loiners'.

I prefer the Latinate term 'Leodensian'. However, judging by the parley of the 'yoofs' on my bus its chances of being accepted by the people of Leeds are slim because it contains far too many syllables and isn't prefaced with an F or a C.

I probably dont notice it because I go there so much. I mean, I notice a little bit of an accent as with anywhere but nothing majorly distinctive as I would Liverpool, Newcastle etc

If you visit any of the older areas of Leeds and go into a WMC, you will find people there with such a strong accent that you are unlikely to understand them as they truly do say watter and babbie etc. The Leeds accent is renound for having a friendly and yet understandable tone to it. During the boom of call centres setting up around 1995, a study was done to look at the best area in the country for accents that could be understood and yet still had some character. Leeds was way ahead of anywhere else followed by Nottingham and Sheffield.

If we are meant to be living in multicultural Britain, then who knows what the accents will be in the future.

On the landmark front, what do people (average people) think of when they think of other cities. It is very easy to get caught up with all the hype etc on this forum, but if you did a survey of 1000 poeople in Leeds, what landmark would they mention in Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham? I do not believe that people look at cities in this way. They think of a city in terms of 1. Night out, 2. Shopping 3. Sport 4. Culture (in the loosest sense - can I see a band in this city. I think from this list that Leeds does as well as any other city.

Sometimes we maybe kid ourselves about the importance of culture right now. I think education comes before this. If the demand was there and all the theatres etc were full every day, then believe me they would be building more and more. The arena is the only example against this.

The facility does not always match the interest. The interest has to be driven...chicken/egg - Manchester has a velodrome but this does not mean that everyone in manchester loves cycling in circles very fast.

Hope my garbled ramblings make sense, I just think we need some perspective from our utopian views on societies within our cities.

I think probably the accent has been diluted alot- with Leeds as a major communications centre, accents change as they need to be understood internationally, and people come into Leeds from all over the region, and the country so that the accent is similar across Yorkshire now with people travelling more. And the media influence- people pick up accents off the tv all over the country. My view is that over a long time, accents will steadily be diluted- there will always be some but strong accents will be a thing of the past.

as a real leeds lad from a genuine leeds area i can tell you that leeds has a very distinct accent and most of the people from around uk would have trouble with the leeds accent, havin lived in newcastle london and now suffolk the locals have serious trouble hearin what im sayin, so i have to speak some of the queens english to allow my speach to be readily absorbed by the others. eh up luv all day long

as a real leeds lad from a genuine leeds area i can tell you that leeds has a very distinct accent and most of the people from around uk would have trouble with the leeds accent, havin lived in newcastle london and now suffolk the locals have serious trouble hearin what im sayin, so i have to speak some of the queens english to allow my speach to be readily absorbed by the others. eh up luv all day longarea

What you are pointing out is dialect and not accent. I am also a real Leeds lad from a genuine Leeds area and I speak with a Leeds or northern accent but I do not speak Yorkshire dialect. (The reason is that I would not be understood and thus not be able to communicate outside my immediate geographical area.) I would never say 'going for t'bus' for 'going for the bus'. However I might use the odd dialect word such as 'ginnel' instead of 'alleyway'. I also remember words from my childhood like 'taws' for 'marbles' and 'laking' for 'playing' but have never used them for years. I suppose it is a matter of education.

I don't buy the 'Leeds lacks iconic buildings' line either. If the view of the Town Hall from the Headrow isn't iconic i don't know what is.

http://static.flickr.com/33/97623645_008b344291.jpg?v=0

Eight years ago I wouldn't have had a clue what that was a photo of, and I consider myself to be pretty well-informed (what's the antonym of insular?)...

Outgoing? Open minded? You'd just say well-informed or not insular, wouldn't you? And yes, there is a dialect in Leeds, and wherever you go in the world- but the Leeds dialect I find similar to my dialect and the dialect in this area- general yorkshire dialect. Although I would never really say stuff like 'luv' and all that yorkshire rubbish. Accents I notice variation around the region but not major variation. I don't notice much accent in Manchester or Sheffield or Edinburgh either- no more than Leeds. Some accents reflects the wealth of the area suppose- thats really the only variation I hear in the Yorkshire region.

I can tell where in Leeds someone comes from by listening to their accent. Well, to a degree, north, south, east or west.

I think Leeds has as distinctive an accent as anywhere, but I always equate it to really bad acting. I don't know why. Perhaps cos I'm from here.

One thing I really hate is when people try and disguise their accent, Sally from Coronation Street for example. When she uses the phoneme (I can't find the proper sign), the one found in "8" or "Day" she changes it to make it sound posher. People in Leeds do that too, especially on the phone. They also do it for the phoneme found in "Road" or "Goat". Me mam does it on t'phone all t'time!

Why is it OK for ondoner's to say "I ain't bothered" but people always correct me when I say "I aren't bothered"? I know it should be written "I am not bothered" but I don't talk how I write. I'm always dropping t's and that, but I know how the word I'm saying is spelt.

Why is it OK for ondoner's to say "I ain't bothered" but people always correct me when I say "I aren't bothered"?

Ain't = singular, Aren't = plural. I ain't bothered = I am not bothered. Although considered slovenly use of language by some, there's actually nothing wrong with it. I aren't bothered = I are not bothered. Clearly incorrect.

Why is it OK for ondoner's to say "I ain't bothered" but people always correct me when I say "I aren't bothered"?

Ain't = singular, Aren't = plural. I ain't bothered = I am not bothered. Although considered slovenly use of language by some, there's actually nothing wrong with it. I aren't bothered = I are not bothered. Clearly incorrect.
Not quite accurate, Barking Spider: you're right in saying that "I aren't" is short for "I are not" but this is *not* incorrect for West Riding dialect (although it would, of course, be incorrect for so-called "Standard English").

"I are" comes from Scandinavian (upon which much of the Yorkshire dialects are based) and is therefore grammatically correct if you are speaking dialect.

So relax, Mistertee - enjoy speaking your dialect and don't let anybody put you down for it. It goes back a lot further than "Standard English" and will no doubt continue for some years to come.

Hello all. Just on a quick visit from the Manchester forum. On the original subject of this thread, my impression of Leeds has always been that it is filthy, stinking rich and absolutely screams wealth from the moment you step off the train.

The modern buildings in the city centre have been built to an extremely high standard and really impress. That said, I've always found the city to be quite conservative (small 'c') in its architecture and there is no specific building that screams 'This is Leeds' to me. It's more of a feel that the place has.

Leeds also has the highest number of southerners I've ever seen outside London, usually screaming into their mobiles at the station or, more frequently, at a table outside Cafe Rouge. Still, you can't have everything... :)

Not quite accurate, Barking Spider: you're right in saying that "I aren't" is short for "I are not" but this is *not* incorrect for West Riding dialect (although it would, of course, be incorrect for so-called "Standard English").

"I are" comes from Scandinavian (upon which much of the Yorkshire dialects are based) and is therefore grammatically correct if you are speaking dialect.

So relax, Mistertee - enjoy speaking your dialect and don't let anybody put you down for it. It goes back a lot further than "Standard English" and will no doubt continue for some years to come.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/voices2005/

Ain't = singular, Aren't = plural. I ain't bothered = I am not bothered. Although considered slovenly use of language by some, there's actually nothing wrong with it. I aren't bothered = I are not bothered. Clearly incorrect.

So how come Londoners get away with saying, "They ain't worth the bother", by your logic they are saying, "They am not worth the bother"!

My point about "I aren't bothered" was more to do with London being allowed a dialect, yet a dialect in Leeds is frowned upon and even corrected by fellow loiners.

I would never write "I aren't bothered" but I say it.

Regarding Yorkshire accents, to most outsiders it generally sounds typically northern with a unique variation on the 'u' vowel sound. It sticks out like a sore thumb and although probably quite harmless, it tends to kind of 'grate' on the ears of people who aren't used to it.
I'm sure you know the sound I'm referring to, "yo" or "yow" instead of "yew" (for the word "you"), "toe" or "tow" for "too,two,to".

Strangely enough, when I was in N.Yorkshire a couple of years ago I hardly heard it compared to W. and S. Yorks. A lot of them seemed have 'acquired' an accent more akin to S. Manchester and the Cheshire money belt!

The Cleveland/Middlesbrough area is clearly a faux-geordie dialect and bears little resemblance to the Yorks. accent.

Bttt....my perception of Leeds? A fine city and growing steadily in terms of commerce and culture. More international recognition will come eventually.

I visited Leeds for a night out not so long ago. My mate and I were sat around on a Saturday with no plans for the night. We debated going into Birmingham, heading out to Wolverhampton or going for a cheesy one in Walsall. My mate than said lets ho further afield, what about Stoke ? Valuing my life I declined, next suggestion was Manchester, having spent a large amount of time working there I've got to know Manchester quite well and for all it has to offer, good nitelife is not one of its main attributes.

Next suggestion - Leeds.

Neither of us had any idea what to expect, no preconceptions, no high hopes but then no major fears. Up we went on our adventure, parked up and walked toward the city centre, within 5 minutes 3 girls had pole danced for us around a zebra crossing pole, within 10 minutes a local fella in a fried chicken shop had given us 3 options for venues playing what we were after. We then made our way to the venue, had a wicked night, met many friendly locals and left with a real positive impression, will definately return.

In summary I would agree with many of the post that Leeds is a bit anonymous in terms of outsiders perceptions. I don't think this is at all a bad thing. My perception having been there is that Leeds is a very confident city, has no need to justify itself to its peers and is not in the slightest bit bothered or scared by any competition.

I saw some great buildings whilst up there, thought it was a shame the swimming pool was coming down. I know it's ugly but it does have a brutalist charm to it.

All that said the fried chicken was rank, you do need to work on that!

I visited Leeds for a night out not so long ago. My mate and I were sat around on a Saturday with no plans for the night. We debated going into Birmingham, heading out to Wolverhampton or going for a cheesy one in Walsall. My mate than said lets ho further afield, what about Stoke ? Valuing my life I declined, next suggestion was Manchester, having spent a large amount of time working there I've got to know Manchester quite well and for all it has to offer, good nitelife is not one of its main attributes.

Next suggestion - Leeds.

Neither of us had any idea what to expect, no preconceptions, no high hopes but then no major fears. Up we went on our adventure, parked up and walked toward the city centre, within 5 minutes 3 girls had pole danced for us around a zebra crossing pole, within 10 minutes a local fella in a fried chicken shop had given us 3 options for venues playing what we were after. We then made our way to the venue, had a wicked night, met many friendly locals and left with a real positive impression, will definately return.

In summary I would agree with many of the post that Leeds is a bit anonymous in terms of outsiders perceptions. I don't think this is at all a bad thing. My perception having been there is that Leeds is a very confident city, has no need to justify itself to its peers and is not in the slightest bit bothered or scared by any competition.

I saw some great buildings whilst up there, thought it was a shame the swimming pool was coming down. I know it's ugly but it does have a brutalist charm to it.

All that said the fried chicken was rank, you do need to work on that!


Glad you enjoyed our fair old city. Its got one hell of a lot going for it.

The pool may be going but in its place will be a shiny new 26 storey Spiracle tower plus a new pool is being built in South Leeds with better facilities.

Shoulda gone to Dixie Chicken

Ewww- do you know where the chicken in Dixy Chicken and KFC has come from!? Its like McDonalds, but worse. No-one cares about Fried Chicken in Yorkshire! It's all about Fish and Chips here :)

Farms?

Dixie chicken is the best chicken I've had. A quid a lump, delicious. I'd like to try YFC on Harehills Lane, Yorkshire Fried Chicken. Or that halal Subway clone on Chapeltown Road, "Meccaway".

The one quid for a lump should say everything! Its disgustingly unhealthy to start with, from chickens that have been bred in poor conditions therefore bad meat. Going to places like that supports poor pay, rainforest destruction (for packaging, or for Burger King etc Cattle Ranches). Its fried in so much rubbish- I wonder how many people would turn veggie if they saw how stuff got from the start-fast food counters.

Farms?

Dixie chicken is the best chicken I've had. A quid a lump, delicious. I'd like to try YFC on Harehills Lane, Yorkshire Fried Chicken. Or that halal Subway clone on Chapeltown Road, "Meccaway".

:lol: Kirkstall Fried Chicken also looks good ;)

The one quid for a lump should say everything! Its disgustingly unhealthy to start with, from chickens that have been bred in poor conditions therefore bad meat. Going to places like that supports poor pay, rainforest destruction (for packaging, or for Burger King etc Cattle Ranches). Its fried in so much rubbish- I wonder how many people would turn veggie if they saw how stuff got from the start-fast food counters.

Bloody tasty though.

=/ is it? I always found it- well not horrible, but not exaclty amazing. Just average food- last thursday when I was in town I went to Maxi's in The Light for lunch, tomorrow I dunno where Ill go- Pret? Wagamama opens August 4th I think- had a look forgotten the date though.

Where do you think wagamama source their chickens from? They're don't come from rainbows in the sky, and don't get me started on bloody Pret a Manger.

I don't think this is at all a bad thing. My perception having been there is that Leeds is a very confident city, has no need to justify itself to its peers and is not in the slightest bit bothered or scared by any competition.

That is exactly how I see Leeds. Spot on.

Me too.

You don't want to get into an embarrassing Liverpool type situation. Would you want aload of nobodies on the telly saying "I'm from Liverpool me, a scouser, I'm BOUND to be funny" but in a Leeds way?

Liverpool and Newcastle can keep their stereotypes, it just makes them look bad. Let Leeds speak for itself.

We've always attracted a more discerning crowd of clubbers, shoppers and gourmets. Do you want aload of fat sweaty tramps coming to ride "The Yellow Submarine"?

Leeds City Council paying for pedestrian blurbs in Virgin Trains magazines isn't going to enhance the city's reputation. What's best about Leeds is best unsaid I reckon.

....do you know where the chicken in Dixy Chicken and KFC has come from!? Its like McDonalds, but worse.

....tomorrow I dunno where Ill go - Pret?

Will I spoil your appetite saying that Pret-a-Manger is partially owned by McDonalds, so their ingredients could be as well coming from the same farms?

This is a good illustration for this thread how perception can be different from reality.

=/ is it? I always found it- well not horrible, but not exaclty amazing. Just average food- last thursday when I was in town I went to Maxi's in The Light for lunch, tomorrow I dunno where Ill go- Pret? Wagamama opens August 4th I think- had a look forgotten the date though.
Wagamama opens today, 31/7/06.

Wagamama opens today, 31/7/06.

lol

http://www.wagamama.com/

Check out their website on the first page they have a picture of two guys in armour and a pic of the royal armouries. Then look at the picture used to show Wagamama Leeds opening.

Went to Tampopo off Park Row on Friday. Amazing food. I had a Korean dish.

What's best about Leeds is best unsaid I reckon.

:hilarious

Me too.

You don't want to get into an embarrassing Liverpool type situation. Would you want aload of nobodies on the telly saying "I'm from Liverpool me, a scouser, I'm BOUND to be funny" but in a Leeds way?

Liverpool and Newcastle can keep their stereotypes, it just makes them look bad. Let Leeds speak for itself.

We've always attracted a more discerning crowd of clubbers, shoppers and gourmets. Do you want aload of fat sweaty tramps coming to ride "The Yellow Submarine"?

Leeds City Council paying for pedestrian blurbs in Virgin Trains magazines isn't going to enhance the city's reputation. What's best about Leeds is best unsaid I reckon.

Very nice post, as usual.

Re: train magazines, 1) they can imrove city's image, if include nice shots/facts about the city and how it's changed recently. Many people who has not been in a city for a while may just be surprised what it become. 2) such articles may affect people deciding where to go for a short trip/weekend, like in previous post. And then yes, once they are in, a city should speak for itself.

omg joking! I could have gone there for lunch today! Went to Maxi's instead.

You don't want to get into an embarrassing Liverpool type situation. Would you want aload of nobodies on the telly saying "I'm from Liverpool me, a scouser, I'm BOUND to be funny" but in a Leeds way?

Liverpool and Newcastle can keep their stereotypes, it just makes them look bad. Let Leeds speak for itself.
The thing about stereotypes is that they can be good and bad. People don't seem to mind having a go at others with negative stereotypes (like thieving scousers) but when it comes to positive stereotypes (like scouse wit) they demand proof. Why?

Another problem is that some places are stereotyped more than others (case in point: contrast Leeds with Liverpool). Obviously this makes negative stereotypes harder to laugh off, because quite often the people using them cannot be attached to such a negative stereotype themselves. Basically, I'd prefer all places to have a distinct character. That way, stereotyping shouldn't be nearly as controversial as it currently is because everyone will be on an equal footing.

Dunno, but I notice it too.

I went into town again today, and Wagamama was open :)

Wagamama opens today, 31/7/06.

where you've been ps60? You're a good contributor to the forum!!!!

Not sure I can add much to this thread really - most of my work colleagues have perceptions of Leeds that vary from mid 80s dump to fantastic night out in a compact city centre with cracking shopping. Generally, like most provincial cities, the amount of investment over the last 10 years has pulled them up by their bootstraps and made them truely more pleasant places to be.

One colleague from East Anglia constantly quotes the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch at me during lulls in our prodigious work output, but then he's a webfooted carrot cruncher married to his cousin. Marvellous, love the stereotypes. Happy Yorkshire Day all!