MRT Circle Line - Connecting all lines [Archive] - Page 6

eX.A.K.R.

March 6th, 2009, 01:58 AM

Nicoll Highway and Paya Lebar aren't ready. It is pointless to open CCL2 if Paya Lebar is going to be temporarily bypassed, only to be opened sometime later. As for CCL1, they could open it now, really. I think they can safely put trains through Nicoll Highway, just like what happened with Dover.

Nicoll Highway can be bypassed, but not Paya Lebar. The latter serves as Circle Line's connection to the eastern part of the East-West Line.

The Circle Line is by and large a "feeder" kind of MRT line that will depend on traffic from the three "main" lines (i.e. NSL, EWL, and NEL); leaving Paya Lebar unopened sort of defeats the whole purpose of the line.

Nicoll Highway, though, given it's position and it's status as a stand-alone station, can be bypassed if it is still under construction and cannot be opened with the rest of the line. The problem will be to how to allow the trains to safely drive through the site with all the works going on; though this has been done with elevated and human-drivered lines in regards to Dover, Nicoll Highway is an underground station on an automated line, which could pose interesting challenges and difficulties.

mcarling

March 6th, 2009, 02:29 AM

I'm sure it wouldn't be a big problem to program the trains to drive slowly through Nicoll Hwy station while it's still under construction.

^tamago^

March 6th, 2009, 03:05 PM

No la... but I'm returning to Singapore and am very excited about CCL!!
By the way, are you Japanese or learn Japanese cos of your username... just wondering...
learning japanese :lol:
the opening dates are not out yet and still months to go before handing over of stage 2 stations...

201911

March 8th, 2009, 06:56 AM

Bishan station- expanded station exit right next to shops at Junction 8

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3646/3333373270_fd58e6a14d.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3333372038_8cb72d76d5.jpg?v=0

Northbound platform upgrades
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3333377222_f8a62159f1.jpg?v=0

note- the area where the platform links to the CCL platforms beneath is still boarded up, couldn't see anything

how the station looks like now- from the outside
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3401/3334493693_b09d7346cf.jpg?v=0

the temporary toilet that has been serving the people faithfully for the past 5 years or so...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3334496749_70ff14abe4.jpg?v=0

more photos, visit my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34867110@N06/

eX.A.K.R.

March 8th, 2009, 08:56 AM

You know, I'm starting to dislike the modifications they are doing to Bishan. The old Bishan station looked much more open and spacious; with the old southbouond platform boarded up and the new ceiling panels, the whole station (or at least the original part of the station) now looks claustrophobic.

Seriously though, I don't know what's with the recent claustrophobic trend that is now taking over the original MRT stations. Look at Boon Lay - before they built those idiotic shops the concourse area was naturally bright and airy; now it's not only overly commercialised ( :puke: ), but it's so dark and stuffy, necessitating the need for energy-wasting, gloomy, artifical lights to be turned on inside the whole time. And I thought we were trying to be more ecologically friendly, huh.

For Bishan, I think some air-conditioning could be good, but at least instead of a concrete wall, they could have used a glass wall with an UV filter instead for sealing up the old southbound platform. Yes, it will be costly, but that could had helped bring natural light into the new northbound platform during daytime, cutting down the need for artifical lightning.

ddes

March 8th, 2009, 09:35 AM

eX.A.K.R.

March 8th, 2009, 09:53 AM

The old Bishan looked opened and spacious? I never thought so. In fact, I think the concourse level, with the new roof, too naked and open.

With the new modifications to the ticket concourse level, concrete walls and glass make no difference as more of the station is covered than before. So the improvement in natural lights are minimal, as compared to building dedicated light wells over random parts of the platform, which they have done. Besides glass is harder to clean, and there's gonna be an escalator down to the CCL concourse right at where the southbound platform used to be.

I wouldn't say many of the existing stations are too "overly commercialized" since they weren't actually "commercialized" before the shops were there. And besides, it makes great sense from the commuter and business point of view. You have a ready market there, and commuters can grab some fingerfood before/after they complete their long commute.

And the environmental-friendly argument is weak. Shall we switch off the air-conditioning in underground stations? Shall we all give up driving? Shall we demand that SMRT and SBST switch to hydrogen fuel-cell buses? The illusion of artificial light may not necessarily equate to being environmentally friendly nor does it equate to more than significant energy being saved.

For a few snack shops and some services, those are still acceptable, but it's a whole different story when they smack things like fashion boutiques there. How many people do you think grab new clothes on their commute to work?

As for your ecological argument: I never asked for anything close to the radical suggestions you have there. Underground stations that are covered up will need their own lightning and air-conditioning, yes, and that can't be helped; I'm not asking everyone to give up driving (though having a large population of people swearing off cars could be good); hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles still isn't a realistic possibility (and may in fact never be (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hype_about_Hydrogen)), and I too never asked for anything like that.

What I'm stating is that if it wasn't necessary before to spend energy on something that isn't needed (such as lightning in the daytime), then don't change it to a situation where you need to now. For example, if your home was bright and airy before, will you delibrately re-arrange the furniture in your home to make it dull and stuffy, to the point where you have to turn on the lights and air-conditioning even in daytime? (p.s. For the record, I had delibrately rearranged the furniture in my room countless times before to maximise the amount of sunlight and natural ventilation in my room during daytime.)

What I'm talking about here is the small things in the eco-friendly picture that people tend to miss, such as using less energy and making full use of what nature has for us rather than wasting energy for them whenever possible without resorting to more revolutionary solutions, in this case sunlight and natural air.

august5

March 8th, 2009, 01:38 PM

Where can I see the full S'pore MRT map?

ddes

March 8th, 2009, 02:20 PM

Unfortunately, Singapore isn't one of the most environmentally-conscious nor morally-conscious despite what the government might have us think.

Before you mistake me further, I admit that I find your need to switch off the lights quite irrelevant because as far as I've seen, and I've seen alot of elevated stations mostly along the NSL, half/most of the lights are on regardless of the availability of the daylight, on the bright and airy platform as well at the ticket concourse levels.

I know. If you don't look at the lights, you'll never know it's lighted but I noticed they were lit during broad daylight at Khatib, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Woodlands, Yew Tee, Choa Chu Kang, Boon Lay, and that's just the platform area only. I guess the concourse level becomes apparent because the erection of shops have made it darker, thus alerting our eyes to the fact that the lights are the ones brightening up the place.

I don't know if they have a "switch-off" lights button; some public places don't actually have a switch-off lights button, instead it is mechanically and systemically timed, like our streetlights and HDB corridor lights.

If they really don't have, then I guess it's better to leave it alone because installing a switch-off button might actually offset any savings that might be derived from switching them off. And to be environmental conscious, it must be done practically...

redstone

March 8th, 2009, 07:58 PM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 9th, 2009, 02:24 AM

learning japanese :lol:
the opening dates are not out yet and still months to go before handing over of stage 2 stations...

I'm learning Japanese too!
Haha I wish the announcements were in Japanese :P
Miss the 'tsugi wa' and 'doa ma shimarimasu' on the Japanese trains.
Maybe in the near future...

About the opening dates, I wish Stage 2 will open just a bit faster... it's collecting dust!

Simon91

March 9th, 2009, 03:08 AM

Kent Ridge Station yesterday:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2525/03082009151314.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03082009151314.jpg)
By simon1991 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/simon1991)

lexovator_mhjpn

March 9th, 2009, 05:58 AM

Where can I see the full S'pore MRT map?

http://www.purehype.org/assets/images/misc/future_mrt_map.jpg
here... the other lines are very much speculated though.

mcarling

March 9th, 2009, 06:01 AM

http://www.purehype.org/assets/images/misc/future_mrt_map.jpg
here... the other lines are very much speculated though.

This is based on plans that have changed over the last several years.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 11th, 2009, 05:01 AM

This is based on plans that have changed over the last several years.

I wish our MRT was like this now :(

mcarling

March 11th, 2009, 07:26 AM

^^
I wish our MRT were now as it's planned to be in 2020.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 11th, 2009, 09:16 AM

^^
I wish our MRT were now as it's planned to be in 2020.

At least its better than our neighbouring countries...
Malaysian and Thai mass rapid can't beat ours.
and Jakarta doesn't even have a subway.

I live in Perth and the rail transport there is MISERABLE.

I miss Singaporean trains.

^tamago^

March 11th, 2009, 01:15 PM

I'm learning Japanese too!
Haha I wish the announcements were in Japanese :P
Miss the 'tsugi wa' and 'doa ma shimarimasu' on the Japanese trains.
Maybe in the near future...

About the opening dates, I wish Stage 2 will open just a bit faster... it's collecting dust!

this (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mttnzxmnxty) shld interest u. :)

lexovator_mhjpn

March 11th, 2009, 01:51 PM

this (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mttnzxmnxty) shld interest u. :)

たまごさん、ありがとうごうざいます！

kurakura

March 11th, 2009, 06:09 PM

Yancancook

March 12th, 2009, 04:29 AM

^^
I wish our MRT were now as it's planned to be in 2020.

Wow.. that map is awesome.

I remember when it was only 2 lines. the north line terminated at Yishun.

happy days

lexovator_mhjpn

March 12th, 2009, 06:02 AM

look much more tidy and covered compared to the pics i took in the older posts.

Bishan?

lexovator_mhjpn

March 12th, 2009, 06:03 AM

Wow.. that map is awesome.

I remember when it was only 2 lines. the north line terminated at Yishun.

happy days

Hey do you have any old-school photos of the MRT?
I really want to see :)

lexovator_mhjpn

March 12th, 2009, 06:06 AM

If u notice, the ceiling of AMK station are actually glass blocks.. you can see them from below, but for some reason concrete had been cast over them, which defeats the purpose of having glass block ceilings in the first place

I never knew that actually... I find the old design of MRT stations rather creative :) am into vintage/retro design, architecture and photography

Simon91

March 12th, 2009, 07:38 AM

^^ Frankly, the design may look quite boring and outdated to some people now, but 11 years from now, when the system expands a lot, we're gonna have a nice blend of styles around. ;)

lexovator_mhjpn

March 12th, 2009, 07:46 AM

^^ Frankly, the design may look quite boring and outdated to some people now, but 11 years from now, when the system expands a lot, we're gonna have a nice blend of styles around. ;)

Yeah thats true... I don't like the 1G PSDS :(... looks so bulky!

babystan03

March 14th, 2009, 12:45 PM

Walked pass bishan CCL station just now.....seems like they are testing the PA system of the station...wondering whats the opening date for Bishan CCL station?? :)

JediAlf

March 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM

Walked pass bishan CCL station just now.....seems like they are testing the PA system of the station...wondering whats the opening date for Bishan CCL station?? :)

30th May 2009 - Marymount, Bishan, Lorong Chuang, Serangoon and Bartley.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM

Walked pass bishan CCL station just now.....seems like they are testing the PA system of the station...wondering whats the opening date for Bishan CCL station?? :)

What do you mean by testing PA system?
Can't wait for the opening!! So excited!!!:banana:

Aranho

March 14th, 2009, 01:46 PM

What do you mean by testing PA system?

Testing the announcement system in other words.

mrtfreak

March 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM

When I passed earlier, not too sure if I saw correctly but Bartley's LED display was showing 2 rows of information which I deemed would be the end-destination since there were what appeared to be timings in minutes towards the end.

mcarling

March 15th, 2009, 08:11 AM

Testing the announcement system in other words.

Correct. PA is an abbreviation of Public Address.

jerryonhere

March 15th, 2009, 11:17 AM

Correct. PA is an abbreviation of Public Address.

I always thought it is Public Announcement?

Aranho

March 15th, 2009, 04:26 PM

Public address and public announcement is the same thing.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 16th, 2009, 05:20 AM

Testing the announcement system in other words.

I hope it isn't the same voice that we hear on EWL or NSL =.=

lexovator_mhjpn

March 16th, 2009, 05:20 AM

tweedledum

March 16th, 2009, 08:10 AM

I hope it isn't the same voice that we hear on EWL or NSL =.=

Of course it will be the same voice..it's run by SMRT... expect the same "door closing... please mind the platform gap.... chut chut chut chut chut chut chut chut!"

acroamatic

March 16th, 2009, 09:35 AM

SMRT, bring back Juanita Melson for the announcements!

lexovator_mhjpn

March 16th, 2009, 09:58 AM

SMRT, bring back Juanita Melson for the announcements!

I second that!! ^^
I don't see any good reason (apart from a HUGE waste of money) why they had to replace her voice =.= I also abhor the new chime.

eX.A.K.R.

March 16th, 2009, 11:55 AM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 16th, 2009, 12:25 PM

I have already reached the conclusion a very long time ago that Saw Phaik Hwa have effectively drove the old Singapore Mass Rapid Transit Corporation and Trans Island Bus Services thousands of miles into the ground. The disguisting new announcements (YI-SHAN? CAR-TICK? PAI-E-NEE-ER? REALLY?!??!?) just simply reinforced that notion of mine's. I'm sure they will work extra-hard and find a way to ruin Dakota's pronounciation (THAR-KOR-THAR, anyone?).

(p.s. For those who don't know: "Yi-shan" = Bishan, "Car-Tick" = Khatib, and "Pai-E-Nee-Er" = Pioneer. Yes, it's that bad.)

I don't see why on earth SMRT had to waste so much money on a cheapo announcement when the old one was doing just fine! and what's with the bee-bor chime?!

Same with the STARIS... The Kawasaki/Nippon Sharyo C751B cars have under utilised VFDs so why on earth are they replacing them with new and worse ones (I personally thing the font on the new VFDs is very cheapo and sub-standard)

How do you know the pronounciation of Dakota will be "Tharkorthar"?
Our announcements sound just as bad as those in China which is pardonable because Chinese do not speak English as their first language and the Chinese announcements are at least reasonable.

I miss old announcements...

ddes

March 16th, 2009, 12:27 PM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 16th, 2009, 01:03 PM

I thought we were over the change of voice for SMRT Trains/Buses.

I can only guess that the reason why they could have replaced Junita Melson was either she didn't want to lend her voice to SMRT anymore OR SMRT wanted a revitalization.

But seriously, I think they did it because Juanita Melson's voice wasn't high pitched enough. If you heard the old terrorism announcements, you'd find the Mandarin announcements are easily overheard while the train is in the tunnel whereas Juanita Melson's and the other voices get drowned out by tunnel noise unless SMRT turns up their volume until it's ear-shattering.

The C751 is the best example for this. They had to blast out Juanita Melson's voice all the time to drown out the tunnel noise, compared to the current voice, which is played softer but can be still equally heard because of the higher pitch of the new voice.

Really? I feel the new voice is a bit too soft sometimes...
The high pitched announcements are much worse actually but I feel like i'm in japan or korea, because they are spoken by this voice that sounds like a ammature english speaker with a relatively strong american accent.

Nowadays the Mandarin announcement sounds terribly low pitched, along with the Tamil and Malay ones... lol

Why is the bell also terribly low pitched =.= ?

RafflesCity

March 16th, 2009, 03:18 PM

The high pitched announcements are much worse actually but I feel like i'm in japan or korea, because they are spoken by this voice that sounds like a ammature english speaker with a relatively strong american accent.

That was my first impression, that it was the voice of a native Korean/Japanese/Mainland Chinese speaker trying very hard to speak English.

The old voice sounded much more confident and professional. However I like the way the new voice pronounces "Tanjong Pagar". She makes it sound exciting lol.

eX.A.K.R.

March 16th, 2009, 04:55 PM

How do you know the pronounciation of Dakota will be "Tharkorthar"?

I just imagined what it will be like based on how badly they are corrupting the current ones. Dakota was picked semi-randomly.

eX.A.K.R.

March 16th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Really? I feel the new voice is a bit too soft sometimes...
The high pitched announcements are much worse actually but I feel like i'm in japan or korea, because they are spoken by this voice that sounds like a ammature english speaker with a relatively strong american accent.

Nowadays the Mandarin announcement sounds terribly low pitched, along with the Tamil and Malay ones... lol

Why is the bell also terribly low pitched =.= ?

Naybe try the ones on the Changi Airport PeopleMover System? Those sound sleeker and more futuristic to me too.

ddes

March 16th, 2009, 06:44 PM

I'm actually waiting to see how LTA will set the pronunciation for Esplanade and Promenade.

Anyway, is it "ass-plur-nate"/"prom-mur-nate" or ass-plur-nard"/"prom-mur-nard"?

mcarling

March 16th, 2009, 07:13 PM

I don't appreciate the butchered pronunciations. There is an ample sufficiency of Singaporeans able to clearly pronounce English words. I would like to hear the pronunciations with a light Singaporean accent clear to people from all countries. It's not that difficult. Just use BBC-standard pronunciations but with a light local accent. It shouldn't be difficult to hire a native Singaporean with an Oxbridge education and a good voice.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 01:57 AM

That was my first impression, that it was the voice of a native Korean/Japanese/Mainland Chinese speaker trying very hard to speak English.

The old voice sounded much more confident and professional. However I like the way the new voice pronounces "Tanjong Pagar". She makes it sound exciting lol.

How does it sound exciting haha

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 01:59 AM

I'm actually waiting to see how LTA will set the pronunciation for Esplanade and Promenade.

Anyway, is it "ass-plur-nate"/"prom-mur-nate" or ass-plur-nard"/"prom-mur-nard"?

I hope its 'nard'...

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 01:59 AM

Naybe try the ones on the Changi Airport PeopleMover System? Those sound sleeker and more futuristic to me too.

Yeah I like that one... sounds like Queen's English with a slight local tinge.

RafflesCity

March 17th, 2009, 03:56 AM

How does it sound exciting haha

In a I-have-just-discovered-a-new-fragrance sort of way and rolls it off her tongue like a magic spell :lol: j/k

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 06:05 AM

In a I-have-just-discovered-a-new-fragrance sort of way and rolls it off her tongue like a magic spell :lol: j/k

That was before it was re-recorded right?
Now it sounds pretty normal I guess...
What I cannot stand is how Aljunied and Marina Bay are pronounced...
plus all the crap about 'continuing their journey'...

The old 'please mind the platform gap' after Juanita Melson was also unbearable haha.

But I really hope the CCL has an announcement change... the EWL and NSL chime and announcement will not fit a 2010 MRT line, sounds almost too sweet, like some Chinese educated person attempting to speak English.

RafflesCity

March 17th, 2009, 06:40 AM

Greatfox

March 17th, 2009, 07:26 AM

At least its better than our neighbouring countries...
Malaysian and Thai mass rapid can't beat ours.
and Jakarta doesn't even have a subway.

I live in Perth and the rail transport there is MISERABLE.

I miss Singaporean trains.

Consider yourself lucky, Perth has possibly the best suburban rail network in Australia!

acroamatic

March 17th, 2009, 08:06 AM

Yah I think there were 2 recordings after Juanita. The first one was very very bad so I think they toned it down slightly. The current one is better but not as good as Juanitas. btw is Juanita an Indian? She seems to have a slight Indian accent.You're right. There was one that was extremely bad in between Juanita's and the current one (who I am told was done by Chan Hui Yuh). There was a point in time you could hear all three on different trains! I managed to record some of Juanita's announcements before they totally removed them from the trains.

Heh, wonder why there will always be a question about Juanita's ethnicity wherever there is a discussion about her voice on the MRT. Not sure why it matters, but she may be Eurasian or Indian.

She did a short interview about MRT announcements in Singapore GaGa (http://singaporegaga.com/), a documentary by Tan Pin Pin. There is also a deleted scene on the DVD which can be found on YouTube.

RafflesCity

March 17th, 2009, 08:24 AM

Heh, wonder why there will always be a question about Juanita's ethnicity wherever there is a discussion about her voice on the MRT. Not sure why it matters, but she may be Eurasian or Indian.

Actually I don't think it is an issue as she didnt sound 'foreign' - she sounded right and thats what matters at the end of the day. Personally feel that her pronunciation would be more fitting as an 'international' form of English than the others - taking into account the cosmopolitan mix of commuters. :cheers:

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 09:23 AM

Consider yourself lucky, Perth has possibly the best suburban rail network in Australia!

Why so?

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 09:24 AM

You're right. There was one that was extremely bad in between Juanita's and the current one (who I am told was done by Chan Hui Yuh). There was a point in time you could hear all three on different trains! I managed to record some of Juanita's announcements before they totally removed them from the trains.

Heh, wonder why there will always be a question about Juanita's ethnicity wherever there is a discussion about her voice on the MRT. Not sure why it matters, but she may be Eurasian or Indian.

She did a short interview about MRT announcements in Singapore GaGa (http://singaporegaga.com/), a documentary by Tan Pin Pin. There is also a deleted scene on the DVD which can be found on YouTube.

I think Hui Yuh did both the second and third announcements with some modifications after people complained.

Juanita MAY be a filipino but her accent I feel is more Singaporean... how does her accent have an indian tinge?

lexovator_mhjpn

March 17th, 2009, 09:26 AM

Actually I don't think it is an issue as she didnt sound 'foreign' - she sounded right and thats what matters at the end of the day. Personally feel that her pronunciation would be more fitting as an 'international' form of English than the others - taking into account the cosmopolitan mix of commuters. :cheers:

I think Juanita's announcement was probably the best... now there is one thing i wonder... is she still on NEL or not? If not then who is on NEL? The NEL announcement does sound very similar to Juanita's.

Personally, Juanita for the win.

sandstorm6299

March 17th, 2009, 10:52 AM

Consider yourself lucky, Perth has possibly the best suburban rail network in Australia!
Why so?

You have Melbourne's Connex that has been cancelling services left, right and centre. Sydney's CityRail is known to be rather unreliable - delays are very common.

Perth's Transperth has had pretty low rates of service cancellations, and all long-term suspension of services are very quickly replaced by buses. In my experience, the Thornlie line has had one cancellation every month or so. The Midland and Fremantle lines have had delays. On the other hand, the Joondalup and Mandurah lines are getting a train (on average) every 5 minutes during peak hour - that's very good already in Australia terms.

(definitely off topic now)

mrtfreak

March 17th, 2009, 02:33 PM

ddes

March 17th, 2009, 03:18 PM

I actually was happy with the "please MIND the platform gap". It's correct usage, giving appropriate tonal emphasis to the word. It's similar to the way how "access" is used in different circumstances.

Right now, it has been modified to give emphasis to "please", and not "mind". Go listen to the London Underground and Hong Kong MTR announcements, it's used like it was with our trains.

Are we going to be happy with Singapore-accented English, even if it isn't exactly correct?

Granted, different races have slightly different intonations in pronouncing words. So stop nit-picking on the new voice unless you're proposing to write to SMRT, which I assure you is a futile event unless ALOT of people feel the same way and you post it up on The Straits Times and get back to topic.

201911

March 17th, 2009, 05:37 PM

more recent Circle Line photos. all but one taken on sunday

CC5 Nicoll Highway

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/3362227573_789565eb2d.jpg?v=0

CC7 Mountbatten

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3572/3362235093_a7fa114d96.jpg?v=0

(this was taken just a few hours ago)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3646/3363057566_60a8bff084.jpg?v=0

CC8 Dakota

reinstated road
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3455/3363078306_9b5d6f463f.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3363085234_0f520716cc.jpg?v=0

CC9 Paya Lebar

Escalators and stairs from the elevated platform lead down towards the ground level, which is then linked to another set of escalators and stairs leading underground.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3563/3363102302_ac547072e2.jpg?v=0

The 2 structures covered in yellow link the existing station on the East West Line to the new underground Circle Line station.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3363104682_08cc2a9c12.jpg?v=0

more pictures visit my photostream here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34867110@N06/

redstone

March 17th, 2009, 05:54 PM

So slow

spikeshamz

March 17th, 2009, 09:50 PM

Couldn't they integrate like rooftop f&b outlets to the stations...? The stations looks boxy .

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 04:08 AM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 04:30 AM

You have Melbourne's Connex that has been cancelling services left, right and centre. Sydney's CityRail is known to be rather unreliable - delays are very common.

Perth's Transperth has had pretty low rates of service cancellations, and all long-term suspension of services are very quickly replaced by buses. In my experience, the Thornlie line has had one cancellation every month or so. The Midland and Fremantle lines have had delays. On the other hand, the Joondalup and Mandurah lines are getting a train (on average) every 5 minutes during peak hour - that's very good already in Australia terms.

(definitely off topic now)

You live in Perth?
Mrt is still better though... lol

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 04:49 AM

So slow

Yeah =.=

y2koh

March 18th, 2009, 05:03 AM

Yup... I don't actually mind that CCL1 is taking some time, the damage has been done. But I think CCL2 and CCL4 could help to be a bit faster. It seems to me that for the past 1.5 years the MRT ridership has doubled. At current conditions, imagine all the trips saved from the connection between the East-West and North-South lines outside the CBD. And it will definitely reduce the crowd at peak hours too without everyone passing through the city centre just to get to the other side of town.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 06:06 AM

Possibly Juanita asked for a rise in salary? :lol:

Aljunied is horrible with the new "All-Joon-Need" instead of the typical "Al-Joon-Nid" we've been used to. It sounds fake. Period.

Most of the rest I can live with. Thank goodness for the re-recorded mind the platform gap announcements. Hated the intonation on the old "Please. Mind. The plat-fohmgap."

i ABHOR the new aljunied announcement... it sounds like an ah-soh had pronounced it... Plus, it's not a Chinese but Malay word.

Which 'mind the gap' are you talking about? Juanita's or the second one?

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 06:08 AM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 06:09 AM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 18th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Okay, changing topic now... does anyone know if STARIS will be available on the CCL?

201911

March 18th, 2009, 01:38 PM

Okay, changing topic now... does anyone know if STARIS will be available on the CCL?

http://www.gebiz.gov.sg/scripts/main.do;wlsessionid=8pYjJQXLx4hHRTgGwwlMzMyRbrT8MDSZ7vFrwbJgC044S78hpTLp!-406179803!1816405329?doctype=TT&doc=LTA000ETT08000339&extSystemCode=E

open attachment number 18, go to page 6. the CCL in train system map will be printed, just like that on the NEL.

edit: if the above link cant be opened directly, go to www.gebiz.gov.sg, go to past opportunities- tenders & quotations, search for ITT ref. no 8290.

blizzardtweaker

March 18th, 2009, 07:13 PM

^^ cool.. i didnt know the public had free access to tender documents

The CCL In-Train system map is shown in page 6 of this pdf http://www.gebiz.gov.sg/scripts/itt_tt/LTA000ETT08000339/8290_016_PHASE2_GRAPHICS_27to34_Dwg_16of21.pdf?Area=OPEN&docType=TT&docCode=281256185371267232129377157177302344274276301179278317320327218317176312

lexovator_mhjpn

March 19th, 2009, 09:48 AM

Simon91

March 19th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Dono if someone posted it here before, just came across and thot would be nice to share:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7251633277885805601

Paya Lebar.

y2koh

March 19th, 2009, 03:18 PM

^^ Did anyone else notice that there are 2 separate platforms at the underground station in the video?

JediAlf

March 19th, 2009, 03:53 PM

^^ Did anyone else notice that there are 2 separate platforms at the underground station in the video?

Actually Paya Lebar CCL Station has the similar configuration as Jurong East, Tanah Merah, Ang Mo Kio - all stations have middle tracks.

DTL station no 27 also has 3 platforms too. These stations are very close to train depots.

mrtfreak

March 19th, 2009, 04:09 PM

mcarling

March 19th, 2009, 04:13 PM

If the video is to scale, then there is enough space between the two platforms for one set of rail tracks, not two.

mrtfreak

March 19th, 2009, 04:16 PM

^^ That should be correct - 3 tracks and not 4. I remember seeing the tunnels clearly when the pit was still open.

oahiyeel

March 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Dono if someone posted it here before, just came across and thot would be nice to share:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7251633277885805601

Paya Lebar.

wow. where did that video come from? LTA?

ddes

March 19th, 2009, 07:26 PM

JediAlf

March 20th, 2009, 12:59 AM

Haha. Maybe during the peak hours, SMRT can apply the spanish solution for either one direction.

Why is it all these kind of virtual walk-through and renderings nowadays feature the line color coded as blue? It's the same with the Bugis DTL station as well.

The walk-through is obviously done by foreigners, given the presence of non-local actors/actresses in the video. So they have no idea on what colour of the codes for a line. The colour of the line was not known at the time that video was made. So they take "blue" as it may stand out well..

y2koh

March 20th, 2009, 04:18 AM

^^ That should be correct - 3 tracks and not 4. I remember seeing the tunnels clearly when the pit was still open.

Wow! :banana:

lexovator_mhjpn

March 20th, 2009, 07:04 AM

It was the intonation of the "platform gap" that irked me, not the please or mind which were okay.

How does the 'platform gap' inotation irk you? and what does 'irk' mean anyways?

lexovator_mhjpn

March 20th, 2009, 07:06 AM

Dono if someone posted it here before, just came across and thot would be nice to share:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7251633277885805601

Paya Lebar.

This was done a long while before wasn't it, when the old chime and Juanita Melson was still on the PA, plus the old interior of the trains and the map.

y2koh

March 20th, 2009, 07:53 AM

^^ Should be. The music is 10 years old!

lexovator_mhjpn

March 20th, 2009, 09:41 AM

^^ Should be. The music is 10 years old!

Really? I only knew that it was by Moby. I would think the OLD announcements would suit the CCL a whole lot better. It's a little awkward to see a middle platform underground actually. I wonder how it functions...

jpatokal

March 20th, 2009, 12:17 PM

The walk-through is obviously done by foreigners, given the presence of non-local actors/actresses in the video.
It's 100% CG, including the "actors" :bash:

Nice video though. Not sure using Moby with lyrics like "In my dreams I'm dying" was best possible choice though :nuts:

lexovator_mhjpn

March 20th, 2009, 03:30 PM

It's 100% CG, including the "actors" :bash:

Nice video though. Not sure using Moby with lyrics like "In my dreams I'm dying" was best possible choice though :nuts:

Haha yeah...
Our CCL station looks so futuristic though!! Pretty cool how they merge the indoors with the outdoors :)

JediAlf

March 20th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Really? I only knew that it was by Moby. I would think the OLD announcements would suit the CCL a whole lot better. It's a little awkward to see a middle platform underground actually. I wonder how it functions...

Initially, like Tanah Merah and Ang Mo Kio, trains will be heading for depot.

The LTA planners can decide to link Paya Lebar station to somewhere or even to DTL station no 27.

Nobody has the idea that Tanah Merah would eventually branch into Expo and Changi Airport.

eX.A.K.R.

March 20th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Initially, like Tanah Merah and Ang Mo Kio, trains will be heading for depot.

The LTA planners can decide to link Paya Lebar station to somewhere or even to DTL station no 27.

Nobody has the idea that Tanah Merah would eventually branch into Expo and Changi Airport.

Actually, provisions were already long-made for an MRT line from the middle platform of Tanah Merah to Changi Airport. I remembered that in the past, before the Changi Airport branch line was built, there were very short "stubs" seemingly budding from the viaducts that originally lead to Changi Depot. These viaducts carried tracks that came directly from the middle track at Tanah Merah station, which were originally (and still are) used to lay over trains coming in from Changi Depot.

I sometimes wonder whether they are going to do something similar for Ang Mo Kio - notice how there's space in between the viaducts between Yio Chu Kang and Ang Mo Kio before the three-track section. I don't know whether they did that as a cost-cutting measure, but it seems like enough space to me to build a new viaduct extending from the middle track to elsewhere. Looking at Google Maps, one (admittedly crazy) idea could be a line that will also interchange at Yio Chu Kang (with the new platforms built above the existing ones), and then turning due north and following the alignment of the canal before swinging north-eastwards after Yio Chu Kang (and probably going underground) to link up with the future Seletar Aerospace Park, possibly ending at a interchange with the future North Shore (or Coast) Line.

JediAlf

March 20th, 2009, 08:55 PM

Actually, provisions were already long-made for an MRT line from the middle platform of Tanah Merah to Changi Airport. I remembered that in the past, before the Changi Airport branch line was built, there were very short "stubs" seemingly budding from the viaducts that originally lead to Changi Depot. These viaducts carried tracks that came directly from the middle track at Tanah Merah station, which were originally (and still are) used to lay over trains coming in from Changi Depot.

I sometimes wonder whether they are going to do something similar for Ang Mo Kio - notice how there's space in between the viaducts between Yio Chu Kang and Ang Mo Kio before the three-track section. I don't know whether they did that as a cost-cutting measure, but it seems like enough space to me to build a new viaduct extending from the middle track to elsewhere. Looking at Google Maps, one (admittedly crazy) idea could be a line that will also interchange at Yio Chu Kang (with the new platforms built above the existing ones), and then turning due north and following the alignment of the canal before swinging north-eastwards after Yio Chu Kang (and probably going underground) to link up with the future Seletar Aerospace Park, possibly ending at a interchange with the future North Shore (or Coast) Line.

They did not include the plan to extend the line to Airport in first place actually. They only decided to add in Changi Airport when they were preparing to extend to Expo.

It was first revealed in the story of Changi Airport - the book is still in the library reference. Alot of interesting information covering details from shifting from Paya Lebar to Changi Airport etc.

In this book, it was one executive before LTA was formed in 1995, approached the CAAS executive and discussed about the extension after Terminal 2 was completed in 1990. Then in 1996, the Government announced the extension to Changi Airport and Expo.

mrtfreak

March 21st, 2009, 03:16 AM

I'd heard that an extension to Changi was long planned before, but that the current route differs greatly from the original. Can't remember where I heard that exactly, but I'm sure they had plans for the 3-platform stations so PYL shouldn't be an exception.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 21st, 2009, 09:36 AM

y2koh

March 21st, 2009, 10:26 AM

spikeshamz

March 21st, 2009, 11:06 AM

Cool video but Paya lebar needs to be build up to have that flux of passengers. The area is only filled with customers going to geylang serai and those industralised flatted factories. As that area is a festive area during ramadan, a nicely fixed exhibition hall with malay decoratifs topped with hotels and offices designed in the modern faced of malay culture would be a nice added to that area.

Simon91

March 21st, 2009, 04:40 PM

^^ They actually intend to build it up quite a bit, there is an exhibition on that in the City Gallery. Dono WHEN are they going to build it tho..

y2koh

March 21st, 2009, 05:18 PM

^^ They actually intend to build it up quite a bit, there is an exhibition on that in the City Gallery. Dono WHEN are they going to build it tho..

It was supposed to be "immediate", which probably mean within the next 5 years and be fully developed in the next 10 years. But realistically I would expect it to begin developing only after the 2013 masterplan, and complete within the next 15 years.

lexovator_mhjpn

March 22nd, 2009, 09:04 AM

mcarling

March 22nd, 2009, 09:26 AM

lexovator_mhjpn

March 22nd, 2009, 10:56 AM

That's rather wild speculation. :)

The only way I can see a connection between the EWL and the ERL anywhere near Paya Lebar and Marine Parade would be an eastern orbital line running about that far east and west to include the CBD. It might run as far north as Toa Payoh.

So what would the station names be and where?

mcarling

March 22nd, 2009, 11:05 AM

So what would the station names be and where?

I have very little idea about where. Look where the highrise office towers are now and where they will be built in the future. Then loop east and overlap the CCL with two objectives: useful interchanges and new stations providing new catchments areas. Don't forget all the usual constraints like no tight turns, no running under highrise buildings, etc.

I'll wait and see what will be shown on the 2011 Concept Plan.

I won't even begin to speculate about names for speculative stations along a speculative route for a speculative line.

infinity88

March 30th, 2009, 02:28 PM

Dono if someone posted it here before, just came across and thot would be nice to share:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7251633277885805601

Paya Lebar.

Wow! Nice Virtual Walk-through. It seems that there are many ang mohs around. :)

Can't wait to visit the new exchange. Any latest date for the completion??

lexovator_mhjpn

March 30th, 2009, 02:35 PM

Wow! Nice Virtual Walk-through. It seems that there are many ang mohs around. :)

Can't wait to visit the new exchange. Any latest date for the completion??

Maybe cos Singapore wants more angmoh... hahaha.
I think it should be done early next year.

disappear

April 3rd, 2009, 05:40 AM

This is just speculation but the third track could be used as a terminal for a spur line from the ERL (or part of CCL). Given that Paya Lebar will be a sub-regional centre; and ERL lacks a connection between EWL, DTL and CCL between Marina Bay and the Expo/Airport Area, I guess a connection is inevitable. The spur can run between Marine Parade and Paya Lebar as a shuttle service with one station in between, which happen to be a major route that several buses ply along today.

this is entirely possible actually, even more so now that i've read from here that Paya Lebar CCL has 3 tracks. in the lta 1996 white paper, much of the CCL we see now(the part from Paya Lebar anti clockwise to harbourfront) was actually a proposed LRT line, and there was actually an LRT link from Paya Lebar to Marine Parade. therefore the MRT link from Paya Lebar to Marine Parade is possible and they could possibly be accommodating for this possible future connection by having 3 tracks at paya lebar. and yes, the ERL lacks any midway link to other MRT lines so this is really a good suggestion.

disappear

April 3rd, 2009, 05:53 AM

I sometimes wonder whether they are going to do something similar for Ang Mo Kio - notice how there's space in between the viaducts between Yio Chu Kang and Ang Mo Kio before the three-track section. I don't know whether they did that as a cost-cutting measure, but it seems like enough space to me to build a new viaduct extending from the middle track to elsewhere. Looking at Google Maps, one (admittedly crazy) idea could be a line that will also interchange at Yio Chu Kang (with the new platforms built above the existing ones), and then turning due north and following the alignment of the canal before swinging north-eastwards after Yio Chu Kang (and probably going underground) to link up with the future Seletar Aerospace Park, possibly ending at a interchange with the future North Shore (or Coast) Line.

I will again make reference to the 1996 white paper. there was actually a proposed MRT line branching from AMK down to somewhere along woodleigh/potong pasir and going further down to lavender/kallang and ending at Marina Bay. this could possibly be one of the reasons why they built AMK station with 3 tracks because they previously anticipated AMK as an interchange station, but not anymore now.

JediAlf

April 3rd, 2009, 06:57 AM

201911

April 3rd, 2009, 04:18 PM

more photos of bishan station, before tomorrow's civil defence open house

existing station exit roof cladding completed

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3408698115_4f19aa7aa6.jpg?v=0

blue tentage for tmr's event

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3382/3409508512_bc32e1266e.jpg?v=0

old toilet, new toilet

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/3408704231_b0a5fab21d.jpg?v=0

expanded area of existing station exit to be opened soon. hoardings between existing paid area and new paid area have been taken down. worker cleaning up

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/3408718583_e1a781edb8.jpg?v=0

new station exit @ bishan bus interchange

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3631/3409530040_2beb31bcd6.jpg?v=0

workers rushing to clean up before tmr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3587/3409537706_05de3a9cf0.jpg?v=0

tomorrow's preparations

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3409539872_e276f76873.jpg?v=0

for more photos please click here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34867110@N06/

RafflesCity

April 3rd, 2009, 06:23 PM

Thanks for sharing those pics. I like the curved structure in the 2nd last pic.

kurakura

April 4th, 2009, 05:23 AM

what a mess :(

sandstorm6299

April 4th, 2009, 02:21 PM

Anyone have pictures from the civil defense exercise?

jerryonhere

April 4th, 2009, 03:06 PM

Check SGForums... Here is the link: http://sgforums.com/forums/2080/topics/353131?page=2

Simon91

April 5th, 2009, 05:29 AM

the station looks epic. worth waiting!

eX.A.K.R.

April 6th, 2009, 04:20 PM

I will again make reference to the 1996 white paper. there was actually a proposed MRT line branching from AMK down to somewhere along woodleigh/potong pasir and going further down to lavender/kallang and ending at Marina Bay. this could possibly be one of the reasons why they built AMK station with 3 tracks because they previously anticipated AMK as an interchange station, but not anymore now.

If they do have plans for that line, I do wonder how they are going to go about building it, if it's technically an extension of the same MRT system as the North-South and East-West Lines. If they are using the centre tracks and extending the line via a viaduct and tracks at the junction around Bishan Depot, then they will have to find a way to route it through a route that avoids the train washing machine installed along one of the two tracks leading from Ang Mo Kio to Bishan Depot.

An interesting thing to note: if this line is going towards Potong Pasir, then the line will cut the Circle Line between Lorong Chuan and Bishan somewhere between it's route between Ang Mo Kio and Potong Pasir, from the possible route I have traced out on Google Maps. As far as I know, there are no provisions for a station between Bishan and Lorong Chuan along the Circle Line, though there were plans for a station previously that got shelved. The intersection could be somewhere near Bishan Depot.

JediAlf

April 6th, 2009, 04:45 PM

ddes

April 6th, 2009, 06:51 PM

I do wonder if the AMK line still figures in the Concept Plan.

If it and the Seletar Line still appears, my guess is that URA/LTA is expecting that neither the TSL nor Seletar Line will be able to fully relieve the traffic on the NSL. I can agree on that because despite those 2 lines, there is still a large catchment which the NSL will still serve more efficiently. Especially if the "Centrals" of the NSL continue to dense up.

So what of the AMK Line? With the Seletar Line, NEL, NSL and TSL, I'm sure much of the region will be adequately covered so what will be this line's relevance? My guess is that it will play a role as an express line, stopping at as few stations as possible so as to decrease travel times to the region, as well as to provide connections to the NSL to the northern towns, and possibly even continuing northwards on the NSL.

The disparity of the demand of the NSL may become so varied that the Yishun-Jurong East may only require 18 minute frequencies, already we have SMRT having very low frequencies during the non-peak hours, I'm willing to bet that future lines will further depress demand, thereby requiring SMRT to lower frequencies to run the top-half of the line more efficiently.

MLP

April 7th, 2009, 05:44 AM

I am really doubtful that our government will ever build the AMK line as an express line. As construction and operation of an MRT line is a large investment by the Government, it will be recommended for implementation if the benefits accrued justify the cost of construction and there is sufficient travel demand to sustain its operation. Why would the government build an express line just to benefit a selected group of people? Furthermore, Singapore is not such a big country (or city) that requires express train services.

So what of the AMK Line? With the Seletar Line, NEL, NSL and TSL, I'm sure much of the region will be adequately covered so what will be this line's relevance? My guess is that it will play a role as an express line, stopping at as few stations as possible so as to decrease travel times to the region, as well as to provide connections to the NSL to the northern towns, and possibly even continuing northwards on the NSL.

ddes

April 7th, 2009, 06:52 AM

I'm hypothesizing that because the AMK Line goes literally on the same route as the Seletar Line, and even the 500m radius argument doesn't do much to support construction of both lines unless one is more specialized, and thus a possible "express" line.

And when I mention "express", I concur with jedialf and others in having interchanges with the NEL, DTL and EWL and wherever it terminates at and only interchanges along the line.

And while Singapore may not be a large city, it is still a big city. And as more train lines get built, and more places covered, there will eventually be demand for 'bypass' lines and 'express' lines. And while I certainly don't think we will ever have a nonstop Tampines to Jurong line, I think a line with reduced stops, say about 10 stops may materialize.

y2koh

April 7th, 2009, 08:43 AM

Usually for subways, express services are not provided on dedicated lines. Express services can be provided for a existing subway line with additional rails so that it will bypass some stations, then it'll make economic sense. Secondly demand for express services usually only appears in longer lines where areas immediately outside the CBD are bypassed. Examples are the rapid services on the JR local lines in Tokyo and Osaka. The only way this "express" line will work is if selected services from Jurong East can use the line and bypass all the stations from Bishan to City Hall. But for that to happen this means probably a $1 increase in fares for passengers, but I guess if people do not mind a 50% increase in fare for a faster journey it might just work.

Simon91

April 7th, 2009, 09:59 AM

Wow here we go again! Express lines, we haven't talk bout 'em for a while now. :lol:

If it depended on me and I had infinite resources, I'd like to have the following:

Tampines -> Paya Lebar -> Bugis -> City Hall/Raffles Place/Marina Bay -> Buona Vista -> Jurong East -> (optionally) Boon Lay

^^ Downtown Line (beyond the loop) would make pretty much the job. But now its too late to make amendments.

Woodlands -> Yio Chu Kang/Ang Mo Kio -> Bishan -> Newton -> Orchard -> Dhoby Ghaut -> City Hall/Raffles Place/Marina Bay

^^ Express TSL would provides us with an opportunity to have a substitute for the above.

AND: a direct ERL track from Changi to Marina Bay. Perhaps with one stop somewhere around Marine Parade.

^^ ERL is our greatest chance to have an express to the airport. Current link is a disgrace.

But well, it feels nice to fantasize, but the last word always belongs to our holy oracle of LTA.

eX.A.K.R.

April 7th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Guys, I have created a new thread for discussion on express MRT lines (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=843926) so as not to spam up this thread. Please post all future discussion about express MRT lines there.

Simon91

April 7th, 2009, 06:31 PM

^^ Very good idea. End of OT.

disappear

April 7th, 2009, 11:45 PM

the station looks epic. worth waiting!

yes, looks grand indeed---reminds me of dhoby ghaut NEL station----but only half as long i suppose. looks v spacious

disappear

April 7th, 2009, 11:47 PM

talking about dhoby ghaut station, i wonder if the dhoby ghaut CCL station will looks similar to the bishan station?

disappear

April 8th, 2009, 12:43 AM

If they do have plans for that line, I do wonder how they are going to go about building it, if it's technically an extension of the same MRT system as the North-South and East-West Lines. If they are using the centre tracks and extending the line via a viaduct and tracks at the junction around Bishan Depot, then they will have to find a way to route it through a route that avoids the train washing machine installed along one of the two tracks leading from Ang Mo Kio to Bishan Depot.

An interesting thing to note: if this line is going towards Potong Pasir, then the line will cut the Circle Line between Lorong Chuan and Bishan somewhere between it's route between Ang Mo Kio and Potong Pasir, from the possible route I have traced out on Google Maps. As far as I know, there are no provisions for a station between Bishan and Lorong Chuan along the Circle Line, though there were plans for a station previously that got shelved. The intersection could be somewhere near Bishan Depot.

i dont think they will think of building this anymore, unless its in the distant future. i brought this out to discuss why AMK station was built with a middle track.

in the old sketch map the intersection u are talking about is actually somewhere between the current Lorong Chuan MRT and Serangoon MRT, at Serangoon Ave 3, near the NYJC entrance(unless the map is not drawn to scale and not to be taken seriously), and no where near the bishan depot.

i dont think we would expect the middle track of AMK to become a terminal or a starting point for a new line in the near future, though i really think they took this into consideration during the time they built the station. now they use the middle track somehow like a spare track, which really came to good use few days ago when a train broke down at AMK northbound -____-....

RafflesCity

April 16th, 2009, 02:50 PM

Circle Line to open 2 days ahead of schedule, fares identical to NEL

16 Apr 09

SINGAPORE: Commuters can look forward to the first stretch of the Circle Line starting operations two days earlier than scheduled, with fares identical to those on the North East Line (NEL).

The five new MRT stations of the Circle Line from Bartley to Marymount will begin operations on May 28.

The Public Transport Council (PTC) said on Thursday train commuters will either see fare savings or no changes in fares.

Fares will cost between 73 cents and S$2.07 if they are paid using an Ez-link Card.

There will be no changes to bus routes for now.

A few private bus operators have expressed interest in providing bus services to some of the five Circle Line stations to further enhance the connectivity around the residential estates and the stations.

One operator has already submitted an application to the PTC to operate a premium bus service to link Sin Ming Estate to Marymount Station.

The 5.7-kilometre stretch of Circle Line has five stations - Bartley, Serangoon (interchange), Lorong Chuan, Bishan (interchange) and Marymount Stations.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/422710/1/.html

don diego 2000

April 16th, 2009, 05:22 PM

Circle Line to open 2 days ahead of schedule, fares identical to NEL

Awesome :banana:

redstone

April 16th, 2009, 09:03 PM

$2? So expensive?

JediAlf

April 17th, 2009, 01:12 AM

$2? So expensive?

$2 is the maximum on a single line. Comparable to existing fares on SMRT's NSL and EWL and SBS Transit's NEL.

Adult EZ link on NEL is between 73 cents and $1.77 (from Harbourfront to Punggol - 20km)

Adult EX link on EWL/NSL is between 68 cents and $1.82 (From Joo Koon to Pasir Ris - 49km)

Since CCL is underground, fully air conditioned platforms and heavily automated, the cost of infrastructure continues to make lines in red for few years before breaking even. So we can expect more underground lines to match the fares with CCL and NEL in future.

Simon91

April 17th, 2009, 03:47 AM

Great, can't wait!

ddes

April 17th, 2009, 05:43 AM

Would the system realize that people will be taking joyrides and charge accordingly, especially if one travels Bishan-Marymount-Bishan-Bartley-Bishan?

sandstorm6299

April 17th, 2009, 08:59 AM

y2koh

April 17th, 2009, 11:43 AM

mcarling

April 17th, 2009, 01:15 PM

^^
In my opinion, it would be daft to charge different fares for the same trip depending on which station entrance one used.

disappear

April 18th, 2009, 02:36 AM

IIRC, there is a time limit on how long you can stay within the system. They don't want people loitering around MRT stations. For example, the time limit for staying within the station is about 5 minutes? It's in the TransitLink Guide (and always has been). I think it's something not many people really considered.

if it hasnt changed, the time limit if u enter and exit from the same station is 20 minutes. no, the system wont realise if u are taking those joyrides and exit at same station, just make sure u dont exceed the time. at most, u exit at the next station, because the time limit will then be 40 min, if its still the same.

disappear

April 18th, 2009, 02:53 AM

What if I enter at outram park EWL entrance, take NEL to Serangoon, transfer to Bishan via circle line, and to NSL, exit at Woodlands, I will still be charged $1.72 right? I'm spending 44mins on the journey (on train alone), just that I'll be walking thrice instead of once (which works out to around 9mins of extra walking + waiting - 3mins each).

How about if I enter from the NEL station entrance for the same journey, will it be different?

no, it wont be different. the system wont go and differentiate. also, if the fares become cheaper as a result of the CCL, even if u use the old route, u still enjoy the same cheaper fare. because they have already established that the CCL way would be cheaper, so even if u choose another way they wont charge u more as a result.

for e.g. even though Hougang to Newton fare is cheaper because of the CCL, if u use the current route and transfer at Dhoby(which is probably still the preferred way as u only transfer once) u still enjoy the same cheaper fare. that is why u can benefit from CCL even if u dont take it at all.

rstopel

April 19th, 2009, 01:16 PM

Just walked past Serangoon MRT. There is a banner saying ppl can test ride on the 23th of may for free. Must register at www.CCLdiscovery.sg.

ddes

April 19th, 2009, 01:28 PM

i'm soo going for this.

sgp

April 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM

delete

kurakura

April 19th, 2009, 04:41 PM

I wonder why there are windshield wipers for CCL trains. They are eternally underground.

It seems odd that they weren't removed at the time the rest of the train was being customised for Singapore operations. Sure it could be part of the package and wouldn't reap huge savings from its removal, but sensibly no point having a non operable part right. At least for NEL some parts of its depot are not exactly underground.

remove dust or fogging maybe?

^tamago^

April 19th, 2009, 04:50 PM

me too!

sandstorm6299

April 19th, 2009, 06:44 PM

Nov

April 20th, 2009, 02:15 AM

disappear

April 20th, 2009, 03:11 AM

ya, underground also can have dust and water

disappear

April 20th, 2009, 03:14 AM

i'm also going on the 23 may. i didnt expect LTA to organize this so this came to me as a surprise.

guess that most people will choose to start their tour at Serangoon and Bishan interchange stations since they can simply take MRT there. the website i went bishan earliest slot no more vacancy already.

kurakura

April 20th, 2009, 05:47 PM

not dangerous meh? go there as guinea pigs?

mcarling

April 20th, 2009, 06:02 PM

^^
Why dangerous? It will have been tested many times without public passengers before that.

disappear

April 20th, 2009, 06:24 PM

not dangerous meh? go there as guinea pigs?

its supposed to be a fun event, not a dangerous one.:lol:

As for the 'guinea pigs', its not those going on 23 May, but those who have already taken a ride on the CCL trains back in march(including some sec sch students) for a Circle Line emergency exercise.

mrtfreak

May 3rd, 2009, 10:40 AM

On the 1st of May, SMRT had an open house for its staff and their family members. Someone posted these videos on youtube, so here's your preview of the Circle Line Stage 3.

Approaching Lorong Chuan station: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3qhSuy-VQ8

Serangoon to Bartley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKs95O-wQqs

Bartley to Kim Chuan Depot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc0Q9WMx9vM

Announcements sound like those on the North South East West lines. Also, from what I can see, seat colours are as such:
Driving Car - Teal
Motor Car - Blue
Driving Car - Pink/Red/Maroon (not sure which)

And some pictures taken from http://roszad.multiply.com/photos/album/48/Circle_Line_Open_House_Staff_Family#

CCL Single Line Map (above train doors)

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/2/photos/48/500x500/12/DSC03951.JPG?et=vCVMbgAPQmriY3xIBGGlpA&nmid=238352007

Lorong Chuan station

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/3/photos/48/500x500/13/DSC03952.JPG?et=07xEHEd9gUi%2CIKnh1aMk%2BQ&nmid=238352007

Bishan transfer linkway

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/3/photos/48/500x500/3/DSC03942.JPG?et=n3qgXamTS96TjBsBDpBQ6A&nmid=238352007

Bishan platform with Plasma screen display

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/3/photos/48/500x500/5/DSC03944.JPG?et=erpn0q3my5Qcud%2CVshDgoA&nmid=238352007

Marymount station

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/4/photos/48/500x500/9/DSC03948.JPG?et=pyieWlYBZvJQL71EwZEQhw&nmid=238352007

Serangoon station

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/3/photos/48/500x500/16/DSC03955.JPG?et=DQ6BV%2CvZQSdexJratMmqqw&nmid=238352007

ddes

May 3rd, 2009, 04:24 PM

The SMRT voice sure does sound appropriate on the Alstom Metropolis trains. Stations are looking good too, much better than I thought, considering the architecture for the CCL3 seemed to be the blandest on renders.

BeNdYBuSLuver

May 3rd, 2009, 04:37 PM

Something nice to share here...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/TIB838H/KcdepCCL-1.jpg

redstone

May 3rd, 2009, 05:23 PM

Marymount station

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/4/photos/48/500x500/9/DSC03948.JPG?et=pyieWlYBZvJQL71EwZEQhw&nmid=238352007

Serangoon station

http://images.roszad.multiply.com/image/3/photos/48/500x500/16/DSC03955.JPG?et=DQ6BV%2CvZQSdexJratMmqqw&nmid=238352007

Design is so ugly. :ohno:

What's behind those louvres?

sgp

May 4th, 2009, 03:33 AM

delete

redstone

May 4th, 2009, 06:33 AM

The most stupid thing is having one info screen for the whole length of the platform. Like how the heck am I supposed to see the arrival time for the train when I'm on one end of the platform and the single screen is at the other end.

sgp

May 4th, 2009, 08:54 AM

delete

mcarling

May 4th, 2009, 10:16 AM

I that the column-free spaces are great. As for the displays, more information is obviously better than less information.

ddes

May 4th, 2009, 10:30 AM

Don't forget that this is a 3-car station so by SMRT standards, it IS an improvement and anyone with a decent eyesight, should be able to view the screen without too much difficulty.

JediAlf

May 7th, 2009, 10:33 AM

The last Metropolis trainset for Singapore’s Circle Line has left Europe
Source: Alstom Transport website
05 March 2009

http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/news/hot_news/_files/file_40398_211580.jpg

The last Metropolis trainset for the Singapore metro Circle Line was loaded onto CMA CGM’s La Traviata, one of France’s largest cargo container ships, on Monday 2 March in Zeebrugge, Belgium. The final load, which included two power cars and one carriage, left left the Alstom manufacturing site in Valenciennes on 19 December 2008 and should arrive in Singapore on 24 March to be delivered to the Land Transport Authority (LTA).

Since the first load in April 2006, 40 Metropolis trainsets have been delivered from Zeebrugge to Singapore in batches of three carriages in each shipment, making a total of 120 carriages. A container ship of this size was needed to transport heavy, over-sized equipment, as each carriage measured 23 metres long and weighed 36-42 tonnes.

The Circle Line is the second consecutive contract awarded to Alstom by the Singapore authorities for an automatic metro system. When the Circle Line goes into operation in 2011, it will be the world's longest automatic line, spanning 42 km.

kurakura

May 8th, 2009, 07:18 AM

40 trains means 20 for each direction. barely enough for the 33km line. not to mention some will be under maintenance in the depot.

When will they order more?

JediAlf

May 8th, 2009, 08:52 AM

40 trains means 20 for each direction. barely enough for the 33km line. not to mention some will be under maintenance in the depot.

When will they order more?

31 stations. They calculated based on 2-3 minutes peak hour frequency same as for NEL. LTA decided the number of trains.

They will order when the situation calls for - same way as what they did when EWL and NSL hit the point where entire train fleet are stretched with additional of Joo Koon and Pioneer.

DTL trains are 73 trains for 33 stations on Downtown line. So all 33 stations would have trains in both directions - 66 trains. It would leave 7 trains to spare.

Rephrase:
So if DTL is under SMRT again, it is possible to deploy 7 DTL trains to CCL.
CCL needs about 22 trains more to achieve less than 2 minutes frequency in every station.

ddes

May 8th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Honestly, of all lines, I don't think the CCL needs incredibly high frequencies unlike the trunk lines. All they really need to do is time connections from interchange stations, and it should be adequate. Afterall, this line is claimed by the LTA to be a medium-capacity line so there isn't supposed to be as many commuters as the other lines if not it'll reveal very short-sighted planning by the LTA.

mcarling

May 8th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Honestly, of all lines, I don't think the CCL needs incredibly high frequencies unlike the trunk lines. All they really need to do is time connections from interchange stations, and it should be adequate.

How would that work? If the idea is to time the CCL for connection with, for example, the NEL at Serangoon, then the CCL would need to run at the same frequency as the NEL -- if NEL is timed such that inbound and outbound trains arrive and depart Serangoon at the same time. Otherwise, the CCL would have to run at twice the frequency of the NEL to be timed for connections. To expand the idea to interconnections between the CCL and the other lines, they would all have to run at the same frequency and the CCL would have to run more slowly between some interchange stations in order to keep the connections timed.

In my opinion, it's not worth trying to synchronize the CCL with other lines. I would set CCL frequencies simply based on the CCL's traffic loads.

ddes

May 8th, 2009, 02:56 PM

oahiyeel

May 8th, 2009, 02:58 PM

31 stations. They calculated based on 2-3 minutes peak hour frequency same as for NEL. LTA decided the number of trains.

They will order when the situation calls for - same way as what they did when EWL and NSL hit the point where entire train fleet are stretched with additional of Joo Koon and Pioneer.

DTL trains are 73 trains for 33 stations on Downtown line. So all 33 stations would have trains in both directions - 66 trains. It would leave 7 trains to spare.

So DTL is under SMRT again. so it is possible to deploy 7 DTL trains to CCL.
CCL needs about 22 trains more to achieve less than 2 minutes frequency in every station.

The operator for DTL have not been awarded, has it?

JediAlf

May 8th, 2009, 03:13 PM

The operator for DTL have not been awarded, has it?

Not yet. LTA has not called for tender either.

JediAlf

May 8th, 2009, 03:15 PM

Okay. Perhaps my suggestion of timing trains for connections wasn't the best of my suggestions.

It seems that from the YouTube videos of the CCL, it looks like SMRT is running the system much smoother than SBST when it first began don't you think?

Not that I'm against him or anything but I'm wondering why jedialf is so sure SMRT will operate the DTL.

I rephrase this. Supposed to add "If" in. My apology.

If SMRT is confirmed, it would easily deploy the trains.

It is smoother to run because the technology has settled down. It has assistance from SBS Transit which is more familiar with the technology and able to advise SMRT on running automation systems.

So all future lines can be expected to fare better and improved on technology.

If it is other party, then it would be first to have tunnels shared by 2 different companies and the depot is shared by two operators.

Even the PSD improves better at CCL stations - open and close same way as train doors.

mrtfreak

May 9th, 2009, 03:40 AM

Sorry to cut in on the discussion, but here are more videos for your pre-CCL opening viewing pleasure. It seems like the "interchange" announcements are a bit more updated than those on the NSEW Lines.

Entering Bishan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6h71cv6rkY

Bartley platform view of approaching train:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8rpP9U1rI8

CCL train interior as it approaches Lorong Chuan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2dfSIIWE4g
* Look out for This train destination is CC12 Bartley on LED
* Look out for flashing "Doors Closing" on LED
* Note different articulated joint from NEL trains

Lorong Chuan to Serangoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMs6qkiMkY

Train coming into Lorong Chuan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hQJVvS5yUA
*Note Plasma display

^tamago^

May 9th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Honestly, of all lines, I don't think the CCL needs incredibly high frequencies unlike the trunk lines. All they really need to do is time connections from interchange stations, and it should be adequate. Afterall, this line is claimed by the LTA to be a medium-capacity line so there isn't supposed to be as many commuters as the other lines if not it'll reveal very short-sighted planning by the LTA.

CCL's scheduling model is, more frequent trains of smaller capacity. Thus, it might need incredibly high frequencies at the same intervals as trunk lines esp during peak hours. :)

DTL tender will start this year and, hopefully, be completed by the end of this year.

^tamago^

May 9th, 2009, 05:07 PM

NSL announcements already updated to "Bishan Interchange" on entering the last time i boarded it, but without saying "passengers transferring to Circle Line pls alight etc etc...."

ddes

May 9th, 2009, 05:49 PM

I heard the "Bishan interchange" on the NSL too. Most commuters around me heard it and were very confused about it. I do hope they update the announcements to include transfer information.

redstone

May 9th, 2009, 05:54 PM

I heard the "Bishan interchange" on the NSL too. Most commuters around me heard it and were very confused about it. I do hope they update the announcements to include transfer information.

Then I can't imagine the announcement for the upcoming Rochor interchange, where the line loops and crosses itself at Rochor. :lol:

eX.A.K.R.

May 10th, 2009, 01:43 PM

Then I can't imagine the announcement for the upcoming Rochor interchange, where the line loops and crosses itself at Rochor. :lol:

I tried, but I couldn't really think of a good one.

I guess that, short of splitting up the Downtown Line into two services (one from Petir/Bukit Panjang to Rochor via Bayfront and another from Expo to Rochor via Bayfront), there's going to be a lot of confusion there. But that will itself also cause quite a bit of confusion, no?

mcarling

May 10th, 2009, 03:45 PM

Then I can't imagine the announcement for the upcoming Rochor interchange, where the line loops and crosses itself at Rochor. :lol:

The best idea I've had is:

- For trains arriving at Rochor to or from DTL2: "Alight here to transfer to Downtown Line trains heading toward Expo."
- For trains arriving at Rochor to or from DTL3: "Alight here to transfer to Downtown Line trains heading toward Bukit Panjang."

ddes

May 10th, 2009, 05:03 PM

I think for cases like this is where SMRT's new announcements come in handy, especially for CCL's shuttle branch either to Marina Bay or Dhoby Ghaut whichever they choose, and Rochor station, where they specify the platform you're supposed to transfer to, like Platform B.

eX.A.K.R.

May 10th, 2009, 07:12 PM

The best idea I've had is:

- For trains arriving at Rochor to or from DTL2: "Alight here to transfer to Downtown Line trains heading toward Expo."
- For trains arriving at Rochor to or from DTL3: "Alight here to transfer to Downtown Line trains heading toward Bukit Panjang."

The problem: both the train the commuter will be on and the train that the commuter can transfer to are heading to the same destination, the only difference being that they are skipping the downtown area in the latter case. And what about trains that have already passed through the downtown?

mcarling

May 10th, 2009, 07:46 PM

The problem: both the train the commuter will be on and the train that the commuter can transfer to are heading to the same destination, the only difference being that they are skipping the downtown area in the latter case.
How is that a problem?

And what about trains that have already passed through the downtown?
What about them?

Andrew

May 11th, 2009, 02:21 AM

Will the tender for DTL be opened up to foreign companies? If it's real competition they're after, it would be good to see the likes of MTR bidding for it.

mcarling

May 11th, 2009, 08:27 AM

Will the tender for DTL be opened up to foreign companies?

Most MRT tenders have been won by foreign companies, though the portion won by Singaporean companies has been increasing. It would be stunning if the government were to impose protectionism. The retaliation would be devastating.

ddes

May 11th, 2009, 09:33 AM

^^ I think Andrew was referring to the tender for the operations of the DTL.

However, I think LTA is more interesting in enhancing passenger experience rather than competition. Moreover, SMRT and SBST are at the forefront at operating semi/fully automated heavy metros, so while I'd be happy at seeing Deutsche Bahn or MTR bid to operate the line, I wonder how steep their learning curve will be.

mcarling

May 11th, 2009, 09:51 AM

^^ Oops! I believe you're right. I misread it.

I would be happy to see a third competitor, but I don't think the chance are very high for DTL. Perhaps someday.

Andrew

May 11th, 2009, 06:13 PM

^^ Oops! I believe you're right. I misread it.

I would be happy to see a third competitor, but I don't think the chance are very high for DTL. Perhaps someday.

That's ok, sorry I didn't make it clear what I meant. Are none of the lines that MTR operate fully automatic? What about some of the Japanese operators?

sgp

May 11th, 2009, 07:11 PM

delete

redstone

May 11th, 2009, 08:32 PM

Is the NEL really what SBS claims - "the first fully automated heavy rail line" in the world?

JediAlf

May 12th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Is the NEL really what SBS claims - "the first fully automated heavy rail line" in the world?

Yes. Singapore is first country to undertake such project that no country has ever taken for the large scale of automation of the metro systems.

Many countries have automated rail lines which are smaller in train capacity, in forms of light rail transit or partial automatic metro system like London's Central line.

More cities have reported to build similar full automatic systems - Shanghai and Dubai. Dubai Metro will start its first commercial operation this year, September with 2 lines - 70 km with 47 stations, making it the longest automatic system.

http://www.gulfnews.com/images/08/05/13/13_ae_metro_test_track05_5.gif
Dubai Metro

Nuremberg is first city to convert conventional metro line to automatic. First one to operate both manually driven and automatic trains. Line U3 is fully automatic line - opened commercially in 2008 after series of technical problems that set the original date 2005 back. Line U2 is planned to be converted to automation.

Information of Germany Nuremberg's U3 and existing U2 lines (http://www.rubin-nuernberg.de/index.htm)

This will likely give the LTA officers case study before they decide to automate SMRT's EWL and NSL eventually.

NEL which faced series of delays until 2003, became the first fully-automatic heavy line.

jpatokal

May 12th, 2009, 07:06 AM

However, I think LTA is more interesting in enhancing passenger experience rather than competition.
I think you meant "guaranteeing solid profits for GLCs". :bash:

sgp

May 12th, 2009, 08:19 AM

delete

ddes

May 12th, 2009, 04:40 PM

Isn't the Circle Line and Downtown Line going to be still longer than any of Dubai's combined?

Well jpatokal, making profits isn't necessarily a bad thing for GLCs considering that few metro systems in the world make profits. If profits is what makes the govt build more lines, then the GLCs can go ahead and operate the lines.

sgp

May 13th, 2009, 02:45 AM

delete

jpatokal

May 13th, 2009, 07:17 AM

Well jpatokal, making profits isn't necessarily a bad thing for GLCs considering that few metro systems in the world make profits. If profits is what makes the govt build more lines, then the GLCs can go ahead and operate the lines.
It's extremely difficult to run a metro system at a profit if you include construction costs, but not difficult at all to operate a complete system profitably if you don't have to worry about servicing the loans. In Singapore, the LTA (read: the taxpayer) funds the construction of the lines and the operational profit goes to privately owned companies (SMRT and SBS), with the PTC fixing the fares so that both are guaranteed to make a profit. :ohno:

mcarling

May 13th, 2009, 10:52 AM

It's extremely difficult to run a metro system at a profit if you include construction costs, but not difficult at all to operate a complete system profitably if you don't have to worry about servicing the loans. In Singapore, the LTA (read: the taxpayer) funds the construction of the lines and the operational profit goes to privately owned companies (SMRT and SBS), with the PTC fixing the fares so that both are guaranteed to make a profit. :ohno:
Yes, but with competitive tendering of the operating contracts, that's less expensive for the passengers/taxpayers, as well as providing higher service standards, than having a government bureaucracy operate the trains. Reducing the term of the operating contracts from 30 years to 10 years and introducing a third competitor would drive the quality/cost ratio even higher.

^tamago^

May 14th, 2009, 03:36 PM

This will likely give the LTA officers case study before they decide to automate SMRT's EWL and NSL eventually.

NEL which faced series of delays until 2003, became the first fully-automatic heavy line.
Good case study, but full automation for NSL and EWL is not possible due to weather elements. Operation of the lines are already automated for a decade, but only when it's not raining.

One of the prerequisites for full automation of NEL is that the whole line must be underground.

RafflesCity

May 14th, 2009, 03:38 PM

Circle Line's Art in Transit programme aims to reach out to more S'poreans

14 May 09

SINGAPORE: Final preparations are being made to the Circle Line which opens on 28 May. While parts of the five-station stretch between Bartley and Marymount may look familiar, other details are sure to be worth a second look.

A wall at the Bartley station is entirely made out of nearly 160,000 discontinued one-cent coins.

It's among the six competition-winning artworks and 22 commissioned pieces commuters will see along the Circle Line.

All stations along the Circle Line network will feature public art components as part of its Art in Transit programme.

Unlike the works at the North East Line stations which cost some S$6.7 million, these pieces are by younger artists.

The Land Transport Authority (LTA) hopes they will help create a more dynamic travelling experience for commuters.

Andrew Mead, senior design manager, architecture, LTA, said: "It's very important that they can come into the station and see artworks that they can immediately resonate with and relate to. And also works that they can come through and see time and time again."

One such example is this piece by four-man design collective - Yoma and A Dose of Light.

It depicts a satirical map of Singapore complete with cultural references done with tongue firmly in cheek.

Young Ding Li, design collective member, Yoma and A Dose of Light, said: “It's meant to also serve as an archive that combines and condenses a little bit of our culture, our nature, our nationhood and all the various nitty gritty details we know about Singapore."

The Circle Line Art in Transit programme cost a total of S$4.8 million and includes Art Seats that'll be installed at all interchange station platforms at Dhoby Ghaut, Paya Lebar, Serangoon, Bishan, Buona Vista and HarbourFront. - CNA/vm

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/429238/1/.html

JediAlf

May 15th, 2009, 01:31 AM

Good case study, but full automation for NSL and EWL is not possible due to weather elements. Operation of the lines are already automated for a decade, but only when it's not raining.

One of the prerequisites for full automation of NEL is that the whole line must be underground.

Technology can be improved over the years when the engineers find ways to overcome the weather-prone issues. Engineers here can study and adapt the devices according to our tropical weather.

The immediate attention would be on Dubai Metro which is fully automated system which has much of network elevated. It would be very interesting to see if their trains do get affected by heavy rain in Dubai. I am sure LTA planners are watching them.

Shanghai Line 10 which is also automated system and also has elevated section, exposed to heat, cold and rain.

These two systems which is exposed to weather elements would provide good study for LTA.

How do KL Rapid (Kelana Jaya Line) trains fare in heavy rains in KL? Does rain affect the operation of this line badly?

jpatokal

May 15th, 2009, 05:09 AM

The immediate attention would be on Dubai Metro which is fully automated system which has much of network elevated. It would be very interesting to see if their trains do get affected by heavy rain in Dubai. I am sure LTA planners are watching them.
Dubai is in the desert, it only rains a few times a year. It's a better test case for exposure to extreme heat.

How do KL Rapid (Kelana Jaya Line) trains fare in heavy rains in KL? Does rain affect the operation of this line badly?
Dunno if the rain is the problem, but in general the Kelana Jaya (PUTRA) line is incredibly unreliable, there are failures and delays all the time.

JediAlf

May 15th, 2009, 06:02 AM

Dubai is in the desert, it only rains a few times a year. It's a better test case for exposure to extreme heat.

Dunno if the rain is the problem, but in general the Kelana Jaya (PUTRA) line is incredibly unreliable, there are failures and delays all the time.

Any data from Dubai on rain would be extremely useful as much of the system is in uncovered section. LTA planners would be interested to see if rain can dispute the automation system and automatic trains.

Kelana Jaya is the best study case for LTA as it is within tropical weather. Any unreliable incidents from Kelana Jaya would be still useful and the engineers can learn from the mistakes and improve the infrastructure to withstand the extremes of weather.

ddes

May 15th, 2009, 08:18 AM

I think if there's any system LTA would consider consulting, assuming they do it in the first place, regarding the weather and its effects on automation, should be the Vancouver Skytrain since the system's exposed to the elements, including rain, wind and snow.

mcarling

May 15th, 2009, 08:33 AM

LTA are quite thorough. I expect they would study all the exposed automated systems to try to learn from the mistakes of others.

XPDood

May 15th, 2009, 12:04 PM

Circle Line's Art in Transit programme aims to reach out to more S'poreans

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/429238/1/.html

There's a video with this article that shows the CCL stations along with the artworks.

Videos show that the artworks, at least at Bartley and Lorong Chuan, feature artwork on the wall that is integrated with (behind) the ticketing machines and do not tend to be restricted to the paid area like in the NEL stations. Very nice touch, imo. :colgate:

RafflesCity

May 15th, 2009, 01:20 PM

Yes a very nice touch. From the video, the designs seem more eye-catching than those on the NEL. Will provide some interesting viewing for those that appreciate such things.

^tamago^

May 15th, 2009, 05:01 PM

Technology can be improved over the years when the engineers find ways to overcome the weather-prone issues. Engineers here can study and adapt the devices according to our tropical weather.

The immediate attention would be on Dubai Metro which is fully automated system which has much of network elevated. It would be very interesting to see if their trains do get affected by heavy rain in Dubai. I am sure LTA planners are watching them.

How do KL Rapid (Kelana Jaya Line) trains fare in heavy rains in KL? Does rain affect the operation of this line badly?

Any data from Dubai on rain would be extremely useful as much of the system is in uncovered section. LTA planners would be interested to see if rain can dispute the automation system and automatic trains.

Kelana Jaya is the best study case for LTA as it is within tropical weather. Any unreliable incidents from Kelana Jaya would be still useful and the engineers can learn from the mistakes and improve the infrastructure to withstand the extremes of weather.
Very much agreed though Kelana Jaya Line will never offer a good case study because the braking distance on slippery tracks and its variance due to varying intensity of rain is much less with a 2-car LRT system, compared with our 6-car heavy rail system. The Kelana Jaya Line is much closer in comparison to our Bt Panjang LRT, which runs without issues on a rainy day.

From my journeys on the Kelana Jaya line, it is not badly affected by tropical rain.

eX.A.K.R.

May 15th, 2009, 05:46 PM

I think in regards to train automation and wet weather, one possible solution could be to have two acceleration/decceleration profiles - one for dry conditions, and one for wet conditions - and either have a central control centre continually monitor the tracks and switch to the appropriate profiles when necessary, or have rain detectors installed along several points along exposed sections of the line and automatically switch profiles as necessary.

sf_84only

May 15th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Its gonna be run in a frequency of one for every 3 - 4 minutes during peak periods...wonder will it be 6 mins on non-peak hours

mcarling

May 15th, 2009, 06:15 PM

Its gonna be run in a frequency of one for every 3 - 4 minutes during peak periods.
That is just until CCL1 and CCL2 open.

wonder will it be 6 mins on non-peak hours
That seems optimistic.

^tamago^

May 16th, 2009, 05:04 AM

6min during peak hours for now i heard.

lexovator_mhjpn

May 16th, 2009, 05:10 AM

6min during peak hours for now i heard.

i think its only temporary right?

ddes

May 16th, 2009, 07:10 AM

^^ Yup, it should be temporary.

For this stretch only, and no bus services rationalization, 6 minute peak hour frequency is unfortunately reasonable.

^tamago^

May 16th, 2009, 03:37 PM

mcarling

May 16th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Wet profile will require various intensity, and braking distance must be near-precise :(

It's really not that difficult a problem. Once in the station, the tracks are dry. Just as a human cannot perfectly predict the stopping distance required, neither can an automaton. In each case, a conservative estimate must be made and modulated based on actual results.

eX.A.K.R.

May 16th, 2009, 05:29 PM

Wet profile will require various intensity, and braking distance must be near-precise :(

I think a possible solution is to over-compensate in a wet secnario (a.k.a. delibrately "underrunning"), and then, with the use of detectors, align the train as appropriate afterwards.

mcarling

May 16th, 2009, 06:00 PM

I think a possible solution is to over-compensate in a wet secnario (a.k.a. delibrately "underrunning"), and then, with the use of detectors, align the train as appropriate afterwards.

Yes, that is exactly what a human driver does. It is also exactly what is done in dry weather.

JediAlf

May 17th, 2009, 07:03 AM

Very much agreed though Kelana Jaya Line will never offer a good case study because the braking distance on slippery tracks and its variance due to varying intensity of rain is much less with a 2-car LRT system, compared with our 6-car heavy rail system. The Kelana Jaya Line is much closer in comparison to our Bt Panjang LRT, which runs without issues on a rainy day.

From my journeys on the Kelana Jaya line, it is not badly affected by tropical rain.

Human errors do occur when trains overshoot in heavy rains. This is when the drivers apply brakes too late that the train wheels go over wet tracks, resulting in overshooting. Only difference is that humans can reverse the trains without any commands.

When in heavy rain, most drivers would brake either gently or abruptly before slowing down when approaching.

As for BP LRT, we cannot compare because of differences in wheel types. BP LRT trains are using tyres which have better grasp on wet concrete which in turn has better water drainage compared to SMRT trains which are running on steel wheels, over wet steel rail bars.

The wet steel rail bars are prone to slippery. So when the steel wheels stop turning, the steel wheels would still slide over the wet steel rail. This results in overshooting the station.

So Kelang Jaya has trains running on steel wheels which is more comparable to SMRT trains. Length of trains is not the major issue in the automation. It is the braking and the distance of the trains would come to halt in wet situations that would bother the planners. Only difference is the type of automation system applied.

LTA planners would require comprehensive schedules to fit the automation systems on all trains and upgrade the entire rail signalling to allow both manual and automatic trains to run on same lines. This would take years to refit everything to automation mode. They would have to scout for best system or modify to suit the Singapore rail network.

One solution is to place rain detectors few miles before the stations to control the speed of trains when they pull into the station. This would call for precise in stopping at the station.

Alternative is to find a special metal alloy that allows the steel rail bar dry and durable all the time. i.e remove water quickly, to allow better grasp.

mcarling

May 17th, 2009, 08:31 AM

Human errors do occur when trains overshoot in heavy rains. This is when the drivers apply brakes too late that the train wheels go over wet tracks, resulting in overshooting.

Only difference is that humans can reverse the trains without any commands.
In the very unlikely event that an automated system were to overshoot a station, it would also know that it had overshot and could reverse without external commands.

When in heavy rain, most drivers would brake either gently or abruptly before slowing down when approaching.
An automated system could do this too.

ddes

May 17th, 2009, 09:26 AM

mcarling

May 17th, 2009, 09:53 AM

Automating the NSL and EWL is no doubt an exciting prospect but I believe to go ahead or not on LTA's part, is not whether the technology exists or not, but rather what does automation bring to the NSL and EWL?

Will the costs of installing such infrastructure and future increased operating costs yield a significant enough benefit for the operations of the 2 lines to actually justify making the switch?

The operating costs of an automated line should be lower because drivers are expensive. Think about how many drivers are needed. I imagine there are at least three times as many drivers as there are trains.

ddes

May 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM

mcarling

May 17th, 2009, 11:16 AM

^^
It depends on what the cost is. Automation is a one-time cost. Paying drivers is an ongoing cost. We would need to see reasonably accurate cost estimates to reasonably evaluate the options. I've just pointed out that it's technically possible. It might or might not be a good deal.

^tamago^

May 17th, 2009, 01:46 PM

It's really not that difficult a problem. Once in the station, the tracks are dry. Just as a human cannot perfectly predict the stopping distance required, neither can an automaton. In each case, a conservative estimate must be made and modulated based on actual results.
If the tracks inside the station are dry when it's raining right outside the station, then overrunning would not be an issue with automation. :ohno:

Automation can predict the correct braking distance and adjust its braking power as it nears the stop target.

XPDood

May 17th, 2009, 04:17 PM

I'm not against automation for the NSL/EWL or anything. But sorry, I don't see any compelling argument for the automation to be done ASAP, or if at all. Call me conservative but if it's not broken, don't fix it.

I believe the price tag to basically rebuild the NSL/EWL infrastructure to gear it for automation is too high and I feel the money could be better building more lines and highways instead.

I agree. Don't think benefits outweigh the costs, even though the costs are ongoing. I think such automation effects, even if approved, would be low priority for LTA, at least in the short run. The more immediate priority would probably be expansion of rail network.

Besides, it is a form of employment for the train drivers...

mcarling

May 17th, 2009, 05:40 PM

I think such automation effects, even if approved, would be low priority for LTA, at least in the short run. The more immediate priority would probably be expansion of rail network.
I agree that expansion of the MRT network is the highest priority (after safety).

Besides, it is a form of employment for the train drivers...
If that logic were sound, then we should solve unemployment by having half the workers dig holes and the other half immediately fill them in again in a sisyphean cycle.

XPDood

May 18th, 2009, 01:48 AM

I agree that expansion of the MRT network is the highest priority (after safety).

If that logic were sound, then we should solve unemployment by having half the workers dig holes and the other half immediately fill them in again in a sisyphean cycle.

I beg to differ. Your comparison of digging holes and filling them back up again is ridiculous because it is counter-productive; such actions do not contribute to the economy at all. This is unlike train drivers who drive the train, lead commuters during emergencies, and so on. And no one can dispute the fact that an effective public transport system is an integral part of a sound economy.

That being said, even automated systems like the NEL have staff in the trains in case of emergencies. :nuts:

mcarling

May 18th, 2009, 05:16 AM

^^
Having people do work that can be done by a machine is the antithesis of productivity.

jpatokal

May 18th, 2009, 05:20 AM

y2koh

May 18th, 2009, 10:03 AM

^^
Having people do work that can be done by a machine is the antithesis of productivity.

In many other subway and rail systems where the trains are supposed to be fully automated, a captain is still assigned to the train. Sometimes, a service cannot be measured by costs, productivity and employment opportunities alone. It is about putting the right person at the right place and timing to make people feel that they are served well and their safety are taken care of.

If productivity is your concern, the trains should have squares drawn on the floor, detectors and displays to make sure people move in as far as possible to the spaces at the centre of the carriage. This would definitely save a lot of costs from employing pink shirt aunties standing on the platform asking people "move inside please". Plus the fact that people are more likely to be pissed off about aunties minding their business, than a captain on the train standing there doing "nothing".

^tamago^

May 18th, 2009, 04:48 PM

The Kelana Jaya line uses the same Bombardier ART technology as the Vancouver Skytrain and some Beijing Subway lines, so there's really nothing very "light" about it -- even the train lengths will (finally) be doubled to 4 cars later this year. By comparison, the BPLRT uses dinky CX-100 shuttles originally designed for airports.
I have been there many times and I know how KJL works.... and KLIA is also using the same CX-100 in 3-car configuration on a 2-station dual-track system.....

But for braking studies, how can they compare this with the typical 210-ton trains on the NSL? :( A CX-100 car is probably at around a tenth of its weight.

JediAlf

May 18th, 2009, 06:51 PM

I have been there many times and I know how KJL works.... and KLIA is also using the same CX-100 in 3-car configuration on a 2-station dual-track system.....

But for braking studies, how can they compare this with the typical 210-ton trains on the NSL? :( A CX-100 car is probably at around a tenth of its weight.

With debate over automation metro, those who are interested in the information as more cities have started converting their metro lines.

Siemens to fully automate Helsinki Metro Line (http://www.vector1media.com/top-stories/corporate-news/siemens-to-fully-automate-helsinki-metro-line/)

Automating Brazil's busiest Metro Lines (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2009/04/9450/automating_brazils_busiest_metro_lines.html)

Case study - Barcelona - They are underway to convert one of existing lines to automation as well as building new fully automatic line (http://rtsa.com.au/assets/2008/12/case-study-barcelona.pdf)

Do read this. It is very interesting information.

Extract from internet...

Automatic metro in Amsterdam
12.04.09

Amsterdam will probably have the first automated metro in the Benelux. The City Board of the Municipality of Amsterdam advises the City Region of Amsterdam to implement automation of the complete metro system in Amsterdam. The first line with automatic metro trains will be the existing metro line to the south eastern part of town in 2014 followed by the new North South line (to be opened shortly after 2014). Around 2019 all metros in Amsterdam will be automated. Automatic driving means that the central control centre guides the metro trains which do not have a driver anymore. Performance of automatic metro system (in terms of reliability and safety) is higher than manually driven metro systems. Nowadays, most of the new metro lines in Europe and Asia are automated systems and several European cities are in the process of implementation of automatic driving on current metro lines. Balancia has gained expertise about automatic metros in Copenhagen and Dubai and closely follows the developments in Amsterdam.

jpatokal

May 19th, 2009, 03:09 AM

JediAlf

May 19th, 2009, 03:38 PM

What does CX-100 have to do with anything? KJL uses ART, not CX-100, and four 18m Mark II cars weigh well over 100 tons unloaded. :bash:

In reality, automation does work regardless of types of trains, length of trains and braking issues. It is still continuing to be improved by engineers despite some reservations from different people.

The question is not about "how to automate system" because there are already technologies available.

It is now about "when to implement". It would be up to the operators and the Government to decide and upgrade the system to catch up with increasing demands from commuters. "More trains" "More frequencies" etc.

Time will come eventually when our conventional MRT lines get upgraded and go fully automatic. Now we have more study cases from different cities that have successfully converted the lines to automatic.

mcarling

May 19th, 2009, 03:59 PM

^^
I agree. Automation of the NSL and EWL is a matter of when to do so, not whether to do so.

RafflesCity

May 20th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Backup system to minimise disruption to Circle Line train services

20 May 09

SINGAPORE : There is another week to go before the first five stations on the Circle Line begin operations.

When the line is completed by 2010, it will be the longest, fully automated driverless rail service.

Kim Chuan Depot is the nerve centre of the new Circle Line. Some 20 SMRT staff have been working closely with the Land Transport Authority (LTA) to develop the Circle Line's hardware and software since 2001, after SMRT was awarded the tender.

SMRT and LTA also roped in train manufacturers, contractors and other suppliers on the building of the Circle Line's infrastructure, operation know-how and training programmes for SMRT staff.

SMRT, which runs the driver-operated North-South and East-West lines, has put in place additional systems to make sure that the driverless Circle Line train service is not disrupted if and when a technical failure occurs.

For example, if a train breaks down in the middle of a tunnel, the Operation Control Centre will take over and get the train running again on a backup system.

Lee Kim Ming, director, Circle Line, SMRT Corporation, said: "In the event that one equipment fails, the other equipment is always on standby to take over, to allow the train to continue its journey until the final destination. This is a necessary feature in a driverless system."

Even though the trains on the Circle Line are not operated by drivers, there is still a driver console in the trains - just in case the automatic mode fails. But if anyone were to try to open it, an alarm would sound and the cameras in the train will send images back to the control room.

With a fully automated system, there is also greater flexibility when SMRT needs to deploy more train services to meet a sudden surge in passenger traffic.

Ong Boon Ann, director, Circle Line Electrical and Mechanical, Land Transport Authority, said: "From the operator point of view, there is no need to worry about whether there are sufficient drivers."

SMRT is now in the final stages of testing the rail system. - CNA/ms

mcarling

May 20th, 2009, 03:20 PM

^^
CCL completion in 2010! I was expecting CCL1 and CCL2 in 2010 and CCL4 and CC5 in 2011. Is this a new sign that progress is faster than expected or was I just confused?

^tamago^

May 20th, 2009, 03:29 PM

They've been saying everything will open by 2010 for the longest time.... even the title reads so. :|

mcarling

May 20th, 2009, 05:01 PM

They've been saying everything will open by 2010 for the longest time.... even the title reads so. :|

The title doesn't indicate which part of the CCL will open by 2010.

ddes

May 20th, 2009, 05:42 PM

... Technically, they didn't say it will "open" in 2010. The word is "completed". :) So that means the line could still open in 2011 if things ain't ready.

However, I think it's not a stretch to say that the CCL except the Marina Bay extension can be completed by 2010, and perhaps open 2nd half of 2010.

mcarling

May 20th, 2009, 06:10 PM

Thanks.

kurakura

May 21st, 2009, 06:53 AM

might be delayed all the way till 2012. stage 5 has like zero progress

ddes

May 21st, 2009, 11:10 AM

Stage 5 has zero progress!!??

For the designs of the Stage 5 stations, much of the structure is underground, only the entrance/exit is above ground, so I'm not surprised that there appears to be very little progress to it, like Marymount and Bartley for example.

I was at Tampines station and I saw an SMRT Circle Line launch poster. On the poster has a few stamps or coins or whatever. But the main thing is that the "Circle Line" is actually designed as a full circle; including a very obvious HarbourFront to Dhoby Ghaut section of the NEL as "part" of the CCL.

JediAlf

May 21st, 2009, 11:30 AM

might be delayed all the way till 2012. stage 5 has like zero progress

Well, much of construction is underground. Rail tracks are already in progress of being laid in the tunnels.

Entrances and exits are usually the last structures to emerge from the ground like what other stages do.

mcarling

May 21st, 2009, 11:59 AM

Mid-stage construction of Telok Blangah, Labrador Park, Kent Ridge and West Coast stations is clearly visible in the 16 Jan 2008 Google Earth image. Pasir Panjang is obscured by clouds.

201911

May 21st, 2009, 04:51 PM

passed by Telok Blangah MRT some weeks ago. dint take pics as i was in a hurry, but concrete structures, most likely the ventilation shafts and station exit, have been constructed. will take pics when i find the time.

anyway, took some pics of bishan mrt today

new northbound platform

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3629/3551616008_1418b8ec12.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3304/3551616556_239560b28d.jpg?v=0

unpaid area concourse

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3540/3550880981_da4b16bbc9.jpg?v=0

new CCL entrance

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3550896763_e0d41c1af9.jpg?v=0

seen from a distance

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3550897367_d3c5e6d839.jpg?v=0

for more photos pls visit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34867110@N06/