So are we Bradfordians going to remain content with our Cinderella City status in comparison to glamorous Leeds?

Anyone know of any mouthwatering tall tower projects that Bradford might get in the next three or four years? I know the regeneration of the city centre is continuing apace and various newbuild schemes are being planned or underway (mostly residential / apartments), but I always felt that the vast empty area around Forster Square Station could do with some new towers or redevelopment on the sort of level that London's rail termini see all the time. I imagine such a thing would look brilliant.

So are we Bradfordians going to remain content with our Cinderella City status in comparison to glamorous Leeds?

Anyone know of any mouthwatering tall tower projects that Bradford might get in the next three or four years? I know the regeneration of the city centre is continuing apace and various newbuild schemes are being planned or underway (mostly residential / apartments), but I always felt that the vast empty area around Forster Square Station could do with some new towers or redevelopment on the sort of level that London's rail termini see all the time. I imagine such a thing would look brilliant.

Cinderella City? is that in reference to the Cinderella City shopping center in Englewood? I keep seeing this used, but can't seem to find it's exact meaning unless it's a reference to that.

Anyway, as for mouthwatering tall tower projects, there is a scheme known as The Channel nearby Forster Square Station, it won't be in the next 3-4 years though, but might start construction within that time. Here's some pictures:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8303/004vd6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1108/chan3dcommarch200620lrkq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4201/thechannelpic3largere2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1771/thechannelpic1largehy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6928/thechannelpic2largego3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'd call that pretty mouthwatering. However I've read an article that suggests the council want to decrease the height and density which would be a great pity, it would appear they were trying to shorten Bradford's aspirations:

''Conflict over height delays £350m plans
By Will Kilner


Controversial proposals for a showpiece development will have to go before an independent review panel after developers and planners failed to reach agreement.

Months of negotiation between Bradford Council planning chiefs and Bradford Channel Ltd (BCL), the company proposing a grandiose £350 million scheme, have resulted in stalemate.

The main stumbling block revolves around the height and density of the proposed city centre complex which would include apartments, shops and offices wrapped around a new canal basin.

Now an external design review panel is being set up to examine the proposals in an attempt to bring the two sides closer together.

continued...
The debate means the original programme for the scheme is now "slightly delayed," said Anthony Bar-nett, Associate Director of Robinson Architects, partners in the Channel scheme.

He said: "We were looking to start the first element before Christmas this year, but spring next year now looks more realistic.

"We were hopeful the scheme would move at a consistent pace through planning but we have got to a stage that what we are proposing is not in line with what planners say is appropriate. Bradford Channel Ltd are very keen to progress it and we want to put in a scheme that would be supported by the planners.

"Density is one of the stumbling points the sheer number of apartments.

"There has also been a lot of discussion about heights.

"We want some towers. We have reduced 20 storeys to 13. If it went lower it would look like anything else, which can be a good thing but we want to signal that something special is happening on this site.

"We want this to be a contemporary scheme that fits in. There's a chance for creative and inspiring design."

The huge site earmarked for the scheme is off Canal Road towards Forster Square.

Mr Barnett said the Council was looking for the tallest elements to be between five and seven storeys high.

He said: "We are not a million miles apart and if we get an independent review that will provide a good guide for BCL and the planners."

A Bradford Council planning spokesman said: "Negot-iations continue to reach agreement.

"Owing to the complexity of issues raised by some aspects of the scheme, Bradford Centre Regeneration and the Council have agreed to seek advice from an external design review panel."

A spokesman for Bradford Centre Regeneration said the company only usually got involved when initial plans were being drawn up.

"However, when it gets to the planning stage it is purely a matter between the developer and the Council to thrash out the precise details," said the spokesman.



In the Channel

The plan would see a new canal basin surrounded by futuristic buildings


Five million litres of water would be needed to fill the central basin


The scheme would include about 2,600 homes, apartments, shops, cafes, bars, a hotel and offices

Robinson Architects were commissioned to design the Channel, wor-king with Shipley-based Magellan Properties


The plan will take ten years to complete in three phases


The development is the cornerstone of Will Alsop's city centre Masterplan.''


So already reduced to 13 storey's and the council want between 5-7 storey's to be the maximum?!?!?! They shouldn't reduce it one bit, It's a perfect spot for it, a little bit out of the city centre but not too far away either.

Anyway, I've posted quite a few design images on the Bradford City Centre Regeneration thread, if you want to see some of the other proposals including the Broadway Shopping Centre and a few other towers i.e. the Gatehaus.

Here's the Channel website: http://www.bradfordchannel.com/

That looks wonderful! I hope it DOES happen though. This part of the city is crying out for some landmark developments. The total area of Forster Square station is a huge area as the station used to be a major terminus, compared to how pitiful it looks now, stripped off it's importance. Shame about the decrease in height- that spiral-topped (?) tower would be fantastic if it was something like 80-90m tall wouldn't you reckon?

You can see from the aerial photgraph just how big Forster Square used to be - with the railway sidings area now taken up with that linear car parking/ retail / office / warehouse development.

I can't believe how much wasted space there is in Bradford, where the Foster Square retail parks are. I think the council will be kicking itself in a few years time.

You wouldn't believe it, but about ten years ago Leeds council decided they didn't want any more high rises and for a while, nothing over ten floors was proposed. I for one lobbied the council, wrote letters to them and the local paper and the Civic Trust complaining and saying high rise is the way to go. A year or two later, they had a complete change of mind and turned in favour of being a big city with a big skyline, Whitehall 2 broke the taboo going up at 15 storeys, since then .. well the rest is history as they say. I don't know if my letters helped, or perhaps it was about the time Manchester started some new high rise developments, but it would be worth you Bradford guys writing to your planning officers expressing your support for good quality high rises and how all self respecting cities need them these days.

That looks wonderful! I hope it DOES happen though. This part of the city is crying out for some landmark developments. The total area of Forster Square station is a huge area as the station used to be a major terminus, compared to how pitiful it looks now, stripped off it's importance. Shame about the decrease in height- that spiral-topped (?) tower would be fantastic if it was something like 80-90m tall wouldn't you reckon?

You can see from the aerial photgraph just how big Forster Square used to be - with the railway sidings area now taken up with that linear car parking/ retail / office / warehouse development.

The spiral topped tower would be a nice landmark and create a more interesting station approach, the other tall red brick/clad (sandstone would be more acceptable) doesn't look quite as inspiring, but there are many other low/mid rise accompaniments which have interesting geometric shapes incorporated in the design (i.e. roofs, curves on buildings). Anyway, it's hard to work out the height on these things to storeys. A design by asquith properties (have a look on the Bradford City Centre Regeneration thread for images) on Manchester Road is 22 storeys and is 68m in height, though the spiral roof may increase the height. I'd say 70m, but it is possible to have higher i.e. West Riding House in Leeds at 80m.

As for the Forster Square retail park, if the site was a two storey one and moved on the site furthest away of the two, it could free up space for this Channel Project, connect the railway station directly with it, also making a better entrance, with no foreground obstructions. Ah well, you can dream.

I also see what you mean about the station, it used to come right up to the Midland Hotel:

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/3032/lb007ryn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Although not imensely imposing it is certainly preferable, that building to the right with the two spires looks like quite a loss and the only existing buildings there now are from the Midland Hotel onwards. They did commit some crimes in the 60's and 70's. Did the former station have any interesting roof element where the trains came in? I saw pictures of the former Exchange Station (now the Law Courts) it was quite astounding to think that was replaced by the Interchange.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3332/bradfordexchangeold3qz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5066/bradfordexchangeold2kq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here shows the comparison with the Interchange:

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/5042/bradfordexchangeold1ui0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Really doesn't compare.

Well the past is the past but it is interesting to see what it used to look like, this is a good website for that:

http://www.bradlibs.com/localstudies/vtc/lostbradford/index.htm

So Forster Square also included the Royal Mail warehouse space? It must have been gigantic, anyway, I saw on a pdf by the council a plan to redevelop Forster Square Station and some of the railway arches on Glydegate (?) Square. Bit basic at the moments, final designs should hopefully be better:

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/

website's currently down, but search for Channel NDF, It's somewhere on one of those 'Priority Intervention' I believe.

You wouldn't believe it, but about ten years ago Leeds council decided they didn't want any more high rises and for a while, nothing over ten floors was proposed. I for one lobbied the council, wrote letters to them and the local paper and the Civic Trust complaining and saying high rise is the way to go. A year or two later, they had a complete change of mind and turned in favour of being a big city with a big skyline, Whitehall 2 broke the taboo going up at 15 storeys, since then .. well the rest is history as they say. I don't know if my letters helped, or perhaps it was about the time Manchester started some new high rise developments, but it would be worth you Bradford guys writing to your planning officers expressing your support for good quality high rises and how all self respecting cities need them these days.

Sounds a good idea, I might just write one, certainly on behalf of this channel development which is ludicrous to scale down to a height of 5-7 storeys. There might be an issue with the density, but I thought that was the nature of the urban village, as long as they run the place smoothly with good facilities and waste disposal it could be a catalyst for regeneration.

On another point, I was in Bradford earlier today. I had a look inside Bradford University's new Atrium, it's really large from inside and very impressive to look at. I also had a walk up Leeds road and saw the progress being made on the Gatehaus development. The other two buildings were being worked on with the concrete structure coming up to 2-3 storey's, I guess they're leaving the best (Glass Fin) till last. I read it should be ready before the end of 2007. Until then, there's a pretty decent video on the website:

http://www.thegatehaus.co.uk/

click on watch video, it's quite impressive and shows it in good detail from all angles.

I recall that Forster Square station WAS a big terminus - with something like 10 platforms or summat, over a quadruple overall roof (peaked as opposed to domed like the old Exchange station). Of course Exchange Station was re-sited a short distance to the south of the old terminus, as seen in the old photo you posted up, and then it was reduced to a soulless glass and concrete 4 platform station adjoining at the time the largest bus station/interchange in the country. Of course it was renamed to Bradford Interchange station sometime in the 1980s. But it's still a pathetic station no matter how you look at it - no doubt reduced to more accurately reflect Bradford's standing as a railway town in the grand scheme of things. But if BI is pathetic, bloody hell, what does one say about Forster Square as it is now? :|

I went to Bradford not so long back (using both stations) and I have to say they were both pretty crappy for a modern city the size of Bradford. I think it's for a couple of reasons. Firstly simply because there are 2 stations, they are half as good if you see what I mean (if you added the 2 stations together there would be a reasonable size station). Also Bradfords position on the rail network means there are fewer trains that pass through, meaning the stations serve less trains.

I think Bradford perhaps needs to think about specialising in a specific niche industry. Being next to Leeds it is never going to be a major office/finance/legal centre, nor a major shopping destination. It could however attract a few companies by specialising (though this also has it's risks)...

I went to Bradford not so long back (using both stations) and I have to say they were both pretty crappy ...

Bradford Forster Square is WAY better than Ilkley, Skipton and Harrogate stations combined.

I also see what you mean about the station, it used to come right up to the Midland Hotel:

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/3032/lb007ryn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I remember seeing those single storey arches to Forster Square Station a couple of years ago. i don't remember seeing them on my last visit three weeks ago however. Are they still there, or is this another case of Bradford destorying all trace of its past?

I remember seeing those single storey arches to Forster Square Station a couple of years ago. i don't remember seeing them on my last visit three weeks ago however. Are they still there, or is this another case of Bradford destorying all trace of its past?

Those arches were certainly still there when I visited Bradford a couple of months ago. They look very good and could potentially be used by independent retailers similar in style to those in the Corn Exchange or small interesting bars.

As for Forster Square and Interchange stations I cannot believe how as part of the redevelopment of the city centre that they could not build a sort of mini cross-rail linking Interchange and Forster Square stations perhaps with a new Central station with a increased number of services around the region (with new routes such as Ilkley / Skipton - Huddersfield / Halifax via Bradford for example) and they should also try to introduce hourly services to London from here as it is the largest city not to have such an regular service. Surely linking the stations together would improve the transport network immesaureably in West Yorkshire and also could help lead to further regeneration at this location to what is there at present.

I would agree entirely, Val Verde. The cross-Bradford link has been sorely needed for many years. Groups have been campaigning for it for ages but nothing seems to have been done.

A lot could be achieved for a relatively little amount of money by simply creating new stations, not just in Bradford but all around the region. Unfortunately, waiting for the authorities to actually do anything concrete is like watching paint dry.

I recall that Forster Square station WAS a big terminus - with something like 10 platforms or summat, over a quadruple overall roof (peaked as opposed to domed like the old Exchange station). Of course Exchange Station was re-sited a short distance to the south of the old terminus, as seen in the old photo you posted up, and then it was reduced to a soulless glass and concrete 4 platform station adjoining at the time the largest bus station/interchange in the country. Of course it was renamed to Bradford Interchange station sometime in the 1980s. But it's still a pathetic station no matter how you look at it - no doubt reduced to more accurately reflect Bradford's standing as a railway town in the grand scheme of things. But if BI is pathetic, bloody hell, what does one say about Forster Square as it is now? :|

Yeah, it isn't a major link for railways and it is more ''appropriate'' but they could've easily still used half of the exchange still or just spaced out the number of tracks, I spose the law court isn't bad looking, but yeah the interchange is atrocious, they've tried to pretty it up a bit with some traditional paint and flower boxes but it doesn't really make up for it. I found some revamp designs for it though dating from 2004, doesn't look too special though:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7785/bradprefplan800tv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3/bradprefelevs800qa4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

While an improvement, nothing breathtaking exactly. This is gonna sound strange but I actually liked Will Alsop's idea for this:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1946/327alsopplanswackinessforbradfordpic1lw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Obviously not the silly block put on top of the Hilton Hotel and that stuff, but the big glass(?) structure which would would cover both the bus and rail interchange and combine them further, it would also get rid of that hideous car park across from City Hall and the dark alley and escalator that leads through.

Anyway, on to Forster Square, I'm quite suprised it had 10 platforms, that really is big. I've now managed to get up that pdf on the council website, they mention making a tall new development of offices, apartments and retail outlets on the current site but also stretching over where the taxi rank currently is. It also mentions a glazed cover. Hopefully a singular domed glass/eft roof to reflect some of the surrounding buildings there (railway arches, Inland Revenue building, the retail park buildings and the new apartment block on the cliff side).

Anyway, here's the pdf, it's worth a look, gives a lot of details:

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C95BA52A-2D33-45B8-9A16-F5C90D1D7B92/0/7PriorityInterventions.pdf

One thing Forster Square Station does have is a better entrance into the city. St. Blaise Square has those railway arches and an upward hill as well as those two sculptures made from railway tracks. If new retail outlets do inhabit these arches as detailed in the pdf, it should boost activity here.

I remember seeing those single storey arches to Forster Square Station a couple of years ago. i don't remember seeing them on my last visit three weeks ago however. Are they still there, or is this another case of Bradford destorying all trace of its past?

It's definately still there, but it's more a wall now, it makes up a car park for the Midland's Hotel.

Those arches were certainly still there when I visited Bradford a couple of months ago. They look very good and could potentially be used by independent retailers similar in style to those in the Corn Exchange or small interesting bars.

As for Forster Square and Interchange stations I cannot believe how as part of the redevelopment of the city centre that they could not build a sort of mini cross-rail linking Interchange and Forster Square stations perhaps with a new Central station with a increased number of services around the region (with new routes such as Ilkley / Skipton - Huddersfield / Halifax via Bradford for example) and they should also try to introduce hourly services to London from here as it is the largest city not to have such an regular service. Surely linking the stations together would improve the transport network immesaureably in West Yorkshire and also could help lead to further regeneration at this location to what is there at present.

That certainly sounds a good idea, making a sort of corn exchange alternative type thing. Don't know where all the cars'd go though. They'd also need to increase the height, but could do nicely as a first stop after getting off the train.

I don't know how'd they link it. They could've taken advantage of Broadway being demolished and send a link underground, but it'd still have to go under some buildings, and that wouldn't be easy (structural support and what not). I really don't know how they'd do it, but maybe they're hoping between stations people'll get to have a walk around the place. Once Broadway is in place I think it'd be easier to go from station to station.

Yeah Harrogate station is crap. But its getting rebuilt, so its ok!

I haven't been to Bradford for a few months so can't really judge it, but Im going tomorrow so Ill have a look round!

I think Bradford perhaps needs to think about specialising in a specific niche industry. Being next to Leeds it is never going to be a major office/finance/legal centre, nor a major shopping destination. It could however attract a few companies by specialising (though this also has it's risks)...

Tourism might be a possibility, it's near the Yorkshire Moors and there's Bronte country nearby aswell as David Hockney and J.B. Preistley being born there, however apart from this niche there isn't too much else. It can attract Asian and Middle Eastern businesses though for obvious reasons which can help, however I think Bradford has to stand up and represent itself as the medium to large city (for UK anyway, 7th I believe) it is. It should try in more general ways and not live up to living in Leeds' shadow. Obviously it can't exactly compete, but it can self-fulfil to it's appropriate size and status, which at the moment isn't at it's potential.

Links with it's industrial past can definately help, so any old buildings which are certainly worth keeping should indeed be kept. Obviously the coucil didn't think too much about that when deciding to get rid off the Odeon, which as a cinema really show's up how souless entertainment/cinema complexes are these days i.e. the Leisure Exchange, you're typical warehouse thingy. Certainly missed out on the chance for a medium-large concert venue, while leeds gets a 12,000 seater arena. It seems not many objected to the Odeon plans and requested refurbishment by the forms at the NMPFT and online forms. I certainly objected myself, perhaps if they had the option with a whole plan for refurbishment they might have ''voted'' otherwise, the 4,000 signed petition obviously meant nothing then:

''People's views will shape the Odeon's future
By Rebecca Wright
The views of nearly 1,500 people will help shape the future of the Bradford Odeon.

One of the largest public consultations in Bradford was organised to gather views about three proposals for the development of the iconic site.

The results will be passed to the winners of a competition who will consider opinions as part of the design process.

continued...
An exhibition outlining the proposals at the National Museum of Photography, Film and Television drew more than 3,000 visitors. Of the 16,500 response forms distributed 1,493 were returned.

Maud Marshall, the chief executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration, which organised the consultation, said: "We are delighted so many people came forward to take part. We are committed to involving people in the regeneration process.

"The views and opinions of local people given through the consultation will be fed back to the winning team, to help shape the final development.

"The winning development will create an outstanding landmark, acting as a symbol of the renaissance of the city."

The three ideas were:


Bradford Pivot - an angular steel and glass block mixing retail, leisure and accommodation.


New Victoria Place - a combination of accommodation, galleries, a caf and restaurant.


Casa Mela - a mixed use development including homes, a hotel, flexible workspace and a front-of-house space for Bradford College.

Out of the opinion gathered only 14 per cent - 209 - of the respondents opted for retaining the existing Odeon structure or not liking any of the three finalists.

A 4,000 signature petition was raised earlier this year by the Bradford Odeon Rescue Group in a bid to save the building from demolition.

The design-developer competition to develop the site was started in 2005.

Consultants Turner and Townsend were appointed to project manage the competition and short-listed firms put forward proposals in July last year.

Three finalists were chosen with the final entries being submitted last March.

The winning design is expected to be announced later this month.''


I suppose I can only hope for the Casa Mela now, but please tone down the colours SEW!!

As for more news from the Telegraph and Argus, it turns out the lake is to be turned into a pool:

''Shallow pool could replace lake plan
By Jo Winrow
A shallow pool - which will turn into an ice rink in winter - has been revealed as the centrepiece for a dramatic new city centre park in Bradford.

Instead of the lake next to City Hall, suggested in Will Alsop's 2003 masterplan, the pool was today touted as a more practical water feature.

The changes were announced as Bradford Council was awarded £250,000 by the Big Lottery Fund to develop the concept further.

continued...
Once the detailed designs have been drawn up a final decision will be made on £17 million in funding for the project. The bid has been put together by the Council working with Bradford Centre Regeneration, Yorkshire Forward and Bradford Vision.

A further working plan must be delivered to the Big Lottery Fund by the end of September.

The changes to the original Alsop concept were made following consultation with city communities and businesses.

The new scheme would see a city park with four office developments at the edge and a residential scheme.

The pool would be part fountain and part boardwalk and would be able to be drained quickly to allow it to be cleaned with drive-on sweepers. Once drained the surface can be used for staging events.

The Council's deputy leader Councillor Dale Smith said: "The news that we have secured the development money for this project means that we can develop a dramatic new city centre environment.

"Our success has been due to the close working of officers from four key agencies supporting regeneration in the district and is an excellent example of team working across the boundaries."

Maud Marshall, chief executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration, said: "This new city park is an exciting development of Will Alsop's daring lake idea.

"It now features a practical means of maintenance with the added benefit of a new performance area. This will enable the community to hold events that encourage people to enjoy the city centre whether they are residents, office workers or visitors."

The pool is part of the so-called Bowl neighbourhood - one of four city-centre segments in Will Alsop's regeneration plans.

Details of the Markets and the Channel have already been revealed. The Valley is due to go out to consultation later this month and the Bowl will follow shortly after.''

So a shallow pool with a fountain and board walk, hmm, not so bad I suppose, certainly hope they get it right with decent designs that don't look cheap. It also mentions 4 office developments and one residential. I hope this replaces some of the horrible offices up that way i.e. that concrete horror Jacob's Well on Manchester Road. Roads are also a problem, they should definately pedestrianise the roads that go right past City Hall and really turn that cetral area into a park with City Hall as it's centre point.

Anyone else also think Princes Way should be changed into an underground tunnel for the stretch from the end of Manchester Road to Thorton Road? It would make it far easier to get about on a pedestrianised space and 7 lanes that close to the City Centre is just rediculous.

The Valley NDF is due to be launched it seems, probably coinciding with the Odeon annoucement. I'm quite interested in what designs they'll have for these areas.

Woah! Sounds good!

I went through Bradford today and I think the new Police Station looks tripe compared to the current one. What are your thoughts?

Woah! Sounds good!

I went through Bradford today and I think the new Police Station looks tripe compared to the current one. What are your thoughts?

Im not too keen on the present police station personally as it looks grim in my opinion and just looks a cheap nasty 1960s concrete block which I hope will be demolished soon alongside the old Abbey National building which was similar and has already been demolished and had quite a decent replacement which goes to show that part of Centenary Square has improved on what was there before. How does this new police station look? Is it yellow brick im guessing?

Woah! Sounds good!

I went through Bradford today and I think the new Police Station looks tripe compared to the current one. What are your thoughts?

I'd have to agree with you actually. Even though I dislike 60's and 70's designs I'd have to say the old police station is much better than the old. The brown windows while not amazing looked quite good when they reflected the sun going down and other buildings and did impliment a sort of sand stone colour clad.

Im not too keen on the present police station personally as it looks grim in my opinion and just looks a cheap nasty 1960s concrete block which I hope will be demolished soon alongside the old Abbey National building which was similar and has already been demolished and had quite a decent replacement which goes to show that part of Centenary Square has improved on what was there before. How does this new police station look? Is it yellow brick im guessing?

While I suppose it can be cheap and nasty and I won't be sad to see it go, I atleast think they were clear in their convictions in making it a strictly modern building, I atleast admire them for that. This new building though, well, just judge for yourself:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5832/06apr28pm02011650640x480ce0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It really lacks any soul or anything at all to endear you to the building, I thought they would've put some effort in as these are the same developers that made a few projects (IPI Building, Atrium) at Bradford University, but this is of no architectural worth. It's one of things I hate, when they try to relate to the past with the sandstone but do it so cheaply and in such a strictly functional way. I suppose it's a bit off from the city centre but you still see it from the train, not nice at all.

One benefit however is that the demolition of the Police Station and Magistrates Courts will make way for this city park with a pool, boardwark and fountain. Hopefully this'll look something like Sheffield's Peace Gardens, which this space may well outsize. Still have to wonder whether those office and residential developments they mentioned will be across Princes Way or actually on the same site, hopefully across the road if they pedestrianise Princes Way.

Aparently there was a video screening at Centenary Square today showing how the city centre would look (realistically) after the wacky designs of the Alsop video. Don't know what this showed, but I'll keep you posted if they put it up on any of their websites.

Here's the article:

''BRADFORD RESIDENTS TO VIEW FUTURE CITY LANDSCAPE
09 August 2006

A short film showcasing Bradford’s future regeneration will be premiered at a public screening in Centenary Square on Friday 11 August 2006 at 12.55pm.

Focusing on the gathering pace of the development in the city, the new film explores the radical projects which will transform Bradford city centre. Whilst water and open spaces remain key components, there will be a wealth of investment in the city’s built environment. It is this bold new future which is depicted in the film.

Produced by Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR) and directed by Julius Cocke and Martin Hampton of Squint Opera, the three minute film is the sequel to ‘Picture a City’ which explored the aspirations of Will Alsop’s visionary Masterplan for the city centre. This new film maps out how the Masterplan is moving forward to realise the vision.

Maud Marshall, Chief Executive of BCR, said: “This screening allows residents to get a preview of these new developments and their role in Bradford’s changing skyline.

“Already, it is clear that massive changes are underway to restore, develop and transform the landscape, bringing more stunning architecture and creating a city centre of which Bradfordians can be proud.”

The screen at Centenary Square was unveiled on June 1 with the unique broadcast of The Royal Ballet’s new production of Sleeping Beauty, live from Covent Garden. Co-funded by BCR with local partners including Bradford Council, Urban Cultural Programme (Illuminate), the Arts Council, Bradford Vision and Centenary Square owners Asda St James, the screen is one of seven large screens in major cities across the UK. There are plans to show a full timetable of programmes including major sporting events and live performances from The Royal Opera House.''

Drifting away from Bradford City Centre for a second, I had a look at some of the Victoria Mills designs for Shipley. I didn't know new developments were to join the restoration of the Mills. The designs seem most comparable to the Channel development, not quite as adventurous, but still nicely designed.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/80/kflews1020203lb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8148/vmxp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7350/vmextlg1vh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2230/vmextlg2zg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.victoria-mills.com/

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5832/06apr28pm02011650640x480ce0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good grief that is bloody horrible totally soulless pile of cack which looks intimidating and authoritarian as well (which I suppose it would being a police station but it still looks rather nasty). I guessed something yet again with yellow brick considering its in Bradford but that has exceeded my expectations for awfulness. Im going to put this onto the Worst New Building In Britain thread asap! :puke:

Good grief that is bloody horrible totally soulless pile of cack which looks intimidating and authoritarian as well (which I suppose it would being a police station but it still looks rather nasty). I guessed something yet again with yellow brick considering its in Bradford but that has exceeded my expectations for awfulness. Im going to put this onto the Worst New Building In Britain thread asap! :puke:

Hahah, please do, just hope it doesn't look detrimental to the Bradford Regeneration cause. Aparently the building's bomb proofed. Perhaps they focused just a little too much on that feature. I mean Bradford really isn't a target for bombings. I spose the fact it's out of the city centre helps, but still, I can't understand how the same developers made something as bad as this while they made stuff like this:

http://www.bradford.ac.uk/admin/estates/A13013.php

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/64/ipi20duskcornerjc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good grief that is bloody horrible totally soulless pile of cack which looks intimidating and authoritarian as well (which I suppose it would being a police station but it still looks rather nasty).
loll... the building always makes me laugh...it kind of makes a statement that they don't want to mix. Their safe place! We used to live near there. When they opened this they shut down all their friendly local drop in police stations... it was a frustrating time because there was a lot of minor unrest within the mixed communities with some strong characters and some strong 'clans' etc..and frequently people needed the assistance of the community police to smooth things over. However when there were these little issues the police only spoke English and had no interpreters even and the local Asians conveniently knew how to switch off their English to match the lack of effort! So these friendly acessable police stations closed down and I always got the impression the police built themselves this huge fortress to run away from the community and hide. Then came the escalation of unrest and the riots. This I think was the trend over the whole country...save money by not having to interact with the public...but it sent out strong messages to struggling areas they they were alone and did not matter. A big mistake. This building is a fortress and says it all...but if it wasn't it would probably have been burnt to the ground! lol!

Are West Yorkshire Police building a few of these, or is Bradford's a one off?

On our side of the hills, we have had a few, near identical nicks built with a Public Finance Initiative programme. Not exactly the nicest of buildings with little arc. merit, but they do the job and are better than the decrepit nicks they replaced.

By the way, we have a thing called "language line" that you can call via your radio should you have probs. understanding the various communities.

loll... the building always makes me laugh...it kind of makes a statement that they don't want to mix. Their safe place! We used to live near there. When they opened this they shut down all their friendly local drop in police stations... it was a frustrating time because there was a lot of minor unrest within the mixed communities with some strong characters and some strong 'clans' etc..and frequently people needed the assistance of the community police to smooth things over. However when there were these little issues the police only spoke English and had no interpreters even and the local Asians conveniently knew how to switch off their English to match the lack of effort! So these friendly acessable police stations closed down and I always got the impression the police built themselves this huge fortress to run away from the community and hide. Then came the escalation of unrest and the riots. This I think was the trend over the whole country...save money by not having to interact with the public...but it sent out strong messages to struggling areas they they were alone and did not matter. A big mistake. This building is a fortress and says it all...but if it wasn't it would probably have been burnt to the ground! lol!

Hmm, something about your timesclae didn't quite fit. You mention them building the fortress and then after mention the riots. This was only just built (long after the riots) to replace the former Central Station which will be demolished to make way for this pool and park. However I take your point. It does seem to show them hiding away, although it is an issue of practicality to envisage this park idea on the site of the police station and magistrates courts.

Hmm, bit too early to speak of burning down I think. The last one seems to have had a good run. Certainly what they should have done was make the building more open plan, more use of glass instead of bad imitation sandstone, incorporating a nicer design element (curves?) instead of a bomb-proof shed.

Baht At has similar views on this on his Visions of Bradford website. He has an interesting take and opinion on Bradford, all too often negative though:

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11650

It would be nice to see some skyscrapers around the city centre, it would create a major city feel for Bradford.

Hmm, something about your timesclae didn't quite fit
..yep because I was thinking of the totally wrong police station... :hammer: they both have the same feel! I can't believe a new building would want to capture the same fortress feel although it is actually totally different when I look at it properly and of course much more beautiful ;) but is still too domineering. Something more friendy and offering the concept of people/police partnership would for better for Bradford 2006! This building just caught me out because it is totally not what I would expect for a new build there!

..yep because I was thinking of the totally wrong police station... :hammer: they both have the same feel! I can't believe a new building would want to capture the same fortress feel although it is actually totally different when I look at it properly and of course much more beautiful ;) but is still too domineering. Something more friendy and offering the concept of people/police partnership would for better for Bradford 2006! This building just caught me out because it is totally not what I would expect for a new build there!

Yeah, it doesn't even match the standard of the old police station, and that's saying something. I saw a new one up in Manningham around Lister's Mills and while being no beauty, it was certainly better than this thing. Despite not being the safest material in a bomb blast (very unlikely anyway) glass would create a sort of openess to a building. However being on Nelson Street in amongst some fairly unused industrial estate on the other side of Manchester Road is hardly imposing itself. Just wish it wasn't viewable from the train, in that area they could with some Skyscrapers anyway, to make a more impressive entrance to the Interchange. The previously mentioned wind turbine and solar panel reclad apartments are nice, but not really a scratch on the Leeds Station Approach.

It would be nice to see some skyscrapers around the city centre, it would create a major city feel for Bradford.

It certainly would, at the moment the tallest building in the city centre is Wardley House joined onto the Museum and that's no pretty building. If anything could do with recladding it would be that. But as for new skyscrapers aside from the Channel and Gatehaus and the recently approved Highpoint redevelopment, there won't be many. The Empress Apartments site was going to be taller, but they scaled that down as well. Centenary Square could have done with another imposing building with interesting design features, but it's only 7 storeys and ''a bit dull'' according to the URC. I think the council are trying just a little too hard to make everything fit in with the current level of height. A few 60's-70's buildings could easily be demolished to make way for a few impressive skyscrapers. Take Arndale House for one. This building should be immediately demolished as it is an incredible eyesore and it looks bigger from further away than it actually is when you get there. This site could be made into a large glass structure and incorporate the use of the building which used to occupy this site: The Swan Arcade. This was a shopping arcade like they have in leeds and would create a unique environment for shopping. Above they could easily have offices, but the ground floor should occupy an impressive arching atrium. This'd be really good and create a nice addition to the Broadway Shopping Centre. They could also increase the height, allowing the same amount of offices to occupy the new building.

Here's a few pictures of what used to be there:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4042/lb031rys9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2387/lb032rxc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7479/swanarcadebradfordee7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://thealbionchronicles.tripod.com/id41.html

I saw a new one up in Manningham around Lister's Mills
yes it was the toller lane police staton I was getting confused with. It is very oppressive.

The Bradfordians on this site are quite right to look with green eyes at the success of Leeds but it is wrong to compare the two. At long last the modest shoots of recovery are starting to happen in Bradford. With quality new developements under way. The Gatehouse for one is a real quality development, along with the near adjacent Shire House. The Eastbrook hall redevelopment and the on going refurbisment of the buildings of Little Germany are all fine exmaples. I for one am glad that Bradford is not following the Leeds pattern book where quality new builds are few and far between. However we do need buildings of height and presence but build quality must not relaxed. I know of a few more developments in the pipeline which if delivered will address the height balance.

The Bradfordians on this site are quite right to look with green eyes at the success of Leeds but it is wrong to compare the two. At long last the modest shoots of recovery are starting to happen in Bradford. With quality new developements under way. The Gatehouse for one is a real quality development, along with the near adjacent Shire House. The Eastbrook hall redevelopment and the on going refurbisment of the buildings of Little Germany are all fine exmaples. I for one am glad that Bradford is not following the Leeds pattern book where quality new builds are few and far between. However we do need buildings of height and presence but build quality must not relaxed. I know of a few more developments in the pipeline which if delivered will address the height balance.

Tell! Tell!

The developments and proposals for Bradford are certainly creating a buzz around the city.

The Bradfordians on this site are quite right to look with green eyes at the success of Leeds but it is wrong to compare the two. At long last the modest shoots of recovery are starting to happen in Bradford. With quality new developements under way. The Gatehouse for one is a real quality development, along with the near adjacent Shire House. The Eastbrook hall redevelopment and the on going refurbisment of the buildings of Little Germany are all fine exmaples. I for one am glad that Bradford is not following the Leeds pattern book where quality new builds are few and far between. However we do need buildings of height and presence but build quality must not relaxed. I know of a few more developments in the pipeline which if delivered will address the height balance.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5913/orlyio0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9230/viewupnh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sorry, couldn't resist. This building I'd say would be contrary to your argument. But yeah, on the whole it does seem better quality.

Also some further news to mention. Skyscrapernews have an article on the Channel Development and list what I'll dub 'Spiral House' as a 22 floor, 67m building. It also mentions they haven't said whether this one's height'll be compromised yet. Hopefully not. Anyway here's the story:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/4349/thechannelpic1largecm4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2006-08-15 > Divided Opinions On Bradfords Channel

You wouldn't think of Bradford as much of a skyscraper city and you'd be right but if Magellan Properties get their way this could soon be changing.
The Channel is the centrepiece of the Will Alsop master-plan to regenerate the centre of Bradford from one of Britain's dingiest cities, raped by decades of industrial recession, into one of the brightest.
Magellan have hired Robinson Architects to design the detailed work of the scheme that will include over a dozen blocks creating 2600 new homes, trendy bars, offices and hotels all overlooking the 1 million gallon piece of water the development is named after, all costing a cool £350 million.
Unfortunately the developers have hit a hitch, Bradford City Council. The council are upset over the height of the scheme and have already had some of the taller buildings in it reduced to 13 floors although the tallest building, a spiral tower of 22 floors seems to remain at present. All of this is still far above the 5-7 maximum that the area is supposed to have according to the master-plan.
Some argue that reducing height, and by implications density, would reduce the prestige of the whole scheme that is supposed to be the centre-point of 21st century Bradford, a strange decision when almost every other city in the UK is building bigger and size does matter.
Critics also say that it shows just how out of touch the council are with the urban realities of today, particularly when they so desperately need increasing amounts of urban regeneration and are not in the position to pick and choose that other cities such as Leeds now find themselves in.
Supporters of the council claim that the master-plan shows a good and idyllic image of what Bradford could be like and just because other places do it, or developers want it, there's no reason to sacrifice quality for an overbearing development.
Rather than get into an intractable position both sides are now looking to an independent panel to thrash out once and for all. This will create a delay on the scheme of several months but the end result should be a design that everyone can live with.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/index.php

Hopefully the council will make a good decision on this (for once). But looking at Skyscrapernews, you'd think Bradford was certainly on the up, having 3 mentions and having two skyscrapers added to its list in the last few days.

The developments and proposals for Bradford are certainly creating a buzz around the city.

Certainly is.

I am in favour the canal plan as I think this will not only transform the image of Bradford but help to create a successful, sustainable city centre.

from what i understand so far the tallest tower hasnt been reduced from 22 floors, the reductions have been on surrounding buildings which is fine by me as it makes the main tower a clearer pinnacle. the reason we havent listed any other buildings is because we dont know what height they will be as everything is being changed but my guess (and hope) is that the spiral tower as people are calling it here will remain. knowing my luck itll be shredded and ill be eating my words. gah!

from what i understand so far the tallest tower hasnt been reduced from 22 floors, the reductions have been on surrounding buildings which is fine by me as it makes the main tower a clearer pinnacle. the reason we havent listed any other buildings is because we dont know what height they will be as everything is being changed but my guess (and hope) is that the spiral tower as people are calling it here will remain. knowing my luck itll be shredded and ill be eating my words. gah!

Sorry, who do you represent? It sounds like you're in the know from somewhere, I'm fairly new, so I don't know everyone fully.

(Oh sorry I realise now you're from Skyscrapernews)

It would make it a clearer pinacle, but some of the mid-risers were still pretty impressive and weren't on the whole all that high, any reduction to them would lessen the impact. There was another tower in the renders in red, it didn't look very impressive, but it wasn't really focused on. The coucils vote on 5-7 storeys is just ever so slightly NIMBY-ish. And when it comes to buildings worth keeping (The Odeon) they go right ahead for the demolision for some generic towers.

Hmm, 'The Pinnacle' that wouldn't be such a bad name actually. If this does get built it'd be a worthy addition to the city's landmarks, in similar colours to the new Richmond Building re-clad.

Good grief that is bloody horrible totally soulless pile of cack which looks intimidating and authoritarian as well (which I suppose it would being a police station but it still looks rather nasty). I guessed something yet again with yellow brick considering its in Bradford but that has exceeded my expectations for awfulness. Im going to put this onto the Worst New Building In Britain thread asap! :puke:

Strangely the police station is still not open months after it was supposed to be - there was a minor problem with flooding from a burst pipe but I have no idea what the current delay is - unless they spent all the money for opening it on kicking down doors in the asian districts.