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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:01 PM
http://rickgold.home.mindspring.com/draa_valley.htm

The Draa Valley is a long oasis that goes south from Ouarzazate into the Sahara Desert. At one time, the waters of the Draa River continued west to the coast where it entered the Atlantic south of Guelmim. Today, the area west of the desert port of Mhamid is completely dry. This was the site of legendary Jewish kingdom during the period of the second temple in Jerusalem. Jews have inhabited the upper valley since at least the late eighth century, when they were defeated by the first Moroccan sultan, Idriss 1st. Jews took refuge in the Draa Valley, where Berber tribes were able to maintain their independence of the sultan. It is possible that they moved there to join other Berber groups who had already converted to Judaism. The Draa was an important center of Jewish civilization for many centuries.

At the end of the 9th century, this region, along with Fez, vied with Kairouan in Tunisia for intellectual Jewish leadership of North Africa. Moise Drawi the elder and Dounash, Talmudic scholars of the 10th century, are the most brilliant representatives of this period. The Karaite heresy, which was adopted in Fez in the 11th century spread to the Draa. Karaites are Jews who do not believe in the Talmud. They were most prevalent in the 12th century, but their hold on Jewish thought and practice was overtaken by the Talmudists who fled Spain in the 14th and 15th centuries.

Under the 12th century Almohads, the Karaites of the Draa were persecuted. Sultan Abd el Moumen eliminated the intellectual and religious life of Jews throughout Morocco. The Karaites escaped massacres by fleeing to the mountains or to the Sahara. Under the 14th and 15th century Merinid dynasty, Jews received more humane treatment, but did not regain their former influence in the Draa. Some of them played an important role in the financing of the caravan trade that lasted until the late 19th century.

With the end of the wealth gained from the caravans, the mellahs of the Draa were in miserable condition. But in many communities, a few rich Jews played important roles in their communities. Jews had special relationships with leaders of Berber tribes, to whom they gave annual tribute.

Some Jews from the Draa left for Israel as early as 1948, but the majority departed by 1958 in groups organized by the Jewish Agency in coordination with the leaders of the Marrakesh Jewish community.

Some of the more important mellahs are Agdz, Tamnougalt, Timesla, Akhellouf, Amzrou, Beni Sbih and Ouled Ahmed.

Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Tamnougalt, the former capital of the Mezguita dynasty

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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:09 PM
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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Les Royaumes du Draa



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Le souvenir légendaire d’un ancien et puissant royaume juif se retrouve aussi dans le Draa Oriental, mais avec bien plus de force et d’ampleur qu’à Ifrane. Il s’appuie à la fois sur la tradition orale et sur deux manuscrits anciens ayant trait à la protohistoire et à l’histoire des Juifs de la vallée du Draa (Le Chott el-Maghzen recueilli en 1910 par le rabbin Jacob Moïse Toledano de Tibériade et le Manuscrit de Tiilite qui appartenait au rabbin de Tiilite du Dadès Abraham Cohen en 1900 ).

Nomades, aventuriers ou marchands, les Juifs se sédentarisent rapidement et fondent leur premier établissement à l’extrémité à l’extrémité du Jbel Beni Selmane, à Tidri, c’est-à-dire au coude du Draa, là où la rivière se resserre pour franchir la branche méridionale du Bani entre l’oasis des Lektaoua au nord et celle des Mehamid au Sud.

Des ruines nombreuses s’élèvent encore près de ce site aujourd’hui désolé parmi lesquelles celles d’Ighir n Tidri sur la rive droite et de Taourirt n Tidri sur la rive gauche. Tout autour des sites en ruine de Tidri se voient d’innombrables tumuli, notamment à l’Ouest du Draa : là, sur le Jbel Beni Selman, s’étend l’immense champ de sépultures connu sous le nom de nécropole de Foumm el rjam, l’une des plus grandes nécropoles à tumuli connue, non seulement au Maroc mais dans tout le Maghreb. Et selon les rabbins des Lektaoua, c’est là que Tidri ensevelissait ses morts. Après s’être installés à Tidri dans le coude du Draa,les Juifs essaiment (arrivée de Berbères judaïsés) et fondent d’autres établissements : aux Mehamid, à Meggag, aux Lektaoua et surtout dans le Fezzouata, à Tamggrout qui devient la capitale de leur principauté.
Juifs du Sud du Maroc

Dans cette région du Draa, vivaient aussi les ancêtres des actuels Haratine, population noire présente depuis des millénaires qu’il ne faut pas confondre avec les esclaves apportés plus tard. A une certaine époque, ces populations furent fortement christianisées.

Dans leur progression, les Juifs se heurtèrent aux Haratine, il s’en suivirent de nombreux conflits entrecoupés de trêves jusqu’à la fin du 7ème siècle. Les Chrétiens seront alors évincés du Draa et les Juifs en resteront maîtres jusqu’à ce qu’ils perdent leur suprématie au profit des Musulmans vers le 11ème siècle.

Vers le 5ème siècle, arrivent les Chrétiens du Cœur de la Mer, appelés Nosrim auxquelles s’allient les Haratines. Ces Nosrim sont, semble-t-il, venus de la région de Volubilis et du Moyen Atlas et s’installent dans le Tafilalt où ont lieu les premiers combats. Les Juifs habitent toujours à Tamggrout et sont installés maintenant plus en amont à Tazrout (une des collines de la montagne Tazagourt qui deviendra Zagora) dont la situation stratégique est primordiale. Les Nosrim reprennent leurs assauts et après s’être installés dans une partie du Draa, retournent dans le Tafilalt suite à une trêve de sept ans. A ce moment-là, Youssef -roi des Juifs du Draa- meurt ; son frère Yaqoub et son fils Samuel lui succèdent et sont d’avis de conclure un arrangement avec les Nosrim afin de ne pas provoquer de nouveaux conflits. Chrétiens et Juifs se partagent donc le Draa et restent en paix pendant un certain nombre d’années. Vers la fin du 7ème siècle, Séita étant alors princesse des Chrétiens, ceux-ci attaquent les Juifs, dans leur camp de Tazrout, qui fuient et se réfugient à Tagmaddart. Apprenant cela, le roi Yaqoub et Samuel accourent avec une armée nombreuse et, avant que les Nosrim aient pu rassembler leurs forces, un grand combat s’engage au cours duquel les Chrétiens sont vaincus. Désemparés, ceux-ci sont obligés de quitter tout le Draa.

Quelques années plus tard Séita revient camper à proximité de Tazrout et y bâtit Tansita (ta n Séita ?) sur la rive droite du Draa. Avant que les Chrétiens aient eu le temps de terminer leurs préparatifs, Yaqoub, Samuel et leur troupes juives passent à l’attaquent : ils cernent la ville, en font le siège pendant sept mois, la prennent s’emparent de Séita et de ses troupes, les tuent et démolissent la ville. Désormais il n’y a plus de Chrétiens dans le Draa.

A la fin du 7ème siècle, les Musulmans commencent à arriver. Il s’agit de petits groupes pacifiques venant de Sijilmassa où des Berbères Zénètes, les Miknassa Kharijites,s’installent en 722 et fondent leur cité en 757. A cette époque, les Musulmans qui s’introduisent dans le Draa se mettent sous la protection des Juifs et vivent en paix pendant assez longtemps. Devenus nombreux et forts, les Musulmans du Draa veulent obtenir de partager le pays avec les Juifs comme les Nosrim autrefois. De la même manière, les Juifs partagèrent la région avec les Musulmans. Rappelons que les deux parties sont toutes berbères mais de religion différente.

Plus tard, s’ensuivirent de nombreuses luttes et trêves au cours desquelles les Juifs ne cessèrent de tenir leur forteresse de Tazrout dans laquelle ils étaient assiégés. La prise de Tazagourt se fit par les Almohades au 12ème siècle qui y massacrèrent la population refusant de se convertir à l’Islam.

Les Juifs perdirent définitivement toute indépendance et vécurent jusqu’au 20ème siècle dans le régime de dhimis fixé par l’Islam. Vers les années 40-50, ils possédaient encore le dixième des terres irriguables du Draa tel le rabbin Hazzane de Beni Sbih qui aurait possédé 90 à 1200 palmiers dont les revenus servaient à subventionner les dernières caravanes transsahariennes et à fournir des prêts à court terme. Nous voyons donc que les légendes qui attribuent des ascendances juives à de nombreuses tribus de l’Anti-Atlas ne paraissent nullement invraisemblables. Si le judaïsme a été autrefois répandu et puissant dans le Sud Marocain, cet état de fait remonterait à une époque très ancienne et sûrement antérieure au triomphe de l’Islam.

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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Zagora

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The Tidri Dunes

http://images.google.fr/images?q=tbn:FKwh-eyNVRSOzM:http://www.marocdecouverte.com/images/dune_de_tidri.jpg

Mehamid

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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:27 PM
Zagora

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Redalinho
August 13th, 2006, 08:30 PM
The Desert of the Jews Region

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empersouf
August 13th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Woow, this is really interesting. I would never tought that the draa valley was "civilised" by jewish tribes. In fact Jews have a lot in common with morocco, just lok at the 6 dragged star...

Redalinho
August 14th, 2006, 03:08 PM
Hello Soufian

There was also a Strong Jewish Kingdom around Ifrane, their first monarch
was called Abraham Ha-Ephrati, of the tribe of Ephraim

AntonAmeneiro
August 14th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Wow thanks Redalinho, this is truly interesting... I'm sure not many people know about this, especially out of Morocco.

nwusaad
August 14th, 2006, 08:19 PM
KAHINA, Jewish queen of Morocco

Jews lived side by side with Berbers, forging both economic and cultural ties; some Berbers even began to practice Judaism. In response, Berber spirituality transformed Jewish ritual, painting it with a belief in the power of demons and saints. When the Muslims swept across the North of Africa, Jews and Berbers defied them together. Across the Atlas Mountains, legendary Queen Kahina led a tribe of 7th century Jewish-Berbers in battle against encroaching Islamic warriors. Though the Muslims defeated Kahina and converted her ancestors to Islam, many Berber communities maintained their Judaism.

http://www.mesdessins.com/data/media/27/la_Kahina_reine_guerriere__cpry.JPG

Sanlucar-Playa
August 15th, 2006, 10:56 AM
A very, very interesting thread! Morocco history isn't well knowm. Thank you for your contribution to make light over it.

¡Un hilo muy, muy interesante! La histiria de Marruecos no es demasiado conocida. Cracias por tu contribución a arrojar luz sobre ella.

Stanpolitan
September 10th, 2006, 09:27 PM
This is fascinating , has to be known well by jewish people around the world as well.

ZOHAR
September 10th, 2006, 09:44 PM
woow thanx for info!

Stanpolitan
September 10th, 2006, 10:11 PM
Zohar caught it on time:)

Arpels
October 25th, 2006, 02:33 PM
so that queen is not a legend :uh:

nwusaad
October 26th, 2006, 04:32 AM
Unfortunately she has not risen to becoming a hero in modern days Moroccan history. I think that the Moroccan history taught in public high school fails to account for the diversity of Morocco, by not discussing its pre-Islamic history and the important role of fellow Jewish compatriots.

Gilgamesh
October 26th, 2006, 10:18 AM
KAHINA, Jewish queen of Morocco

Jews lived side by side with Berbers, forging both economic and cultural ties; some Berbers even began to practice Judaism. In response, Berber spirituality transformed Jewish ritual, painting it with a belief in the power of demons and saints. When the Muslims swept across the North of Africa, Jews and Berbers defied them together. Across the Atlas Mountains, legendary Queen Kahina led a tribe of 7th century Jewish-Berbers in battle against encroaching Islamic warriors. Though the Muslims defeated Kahina and converted her ancestors to Islam, many Berber communities maintained their Judaism.

http://www.mesdessins.com/data/media/27/la_Kahina_reine_guerriere__cpry.JPG


Fascinating stuff :eek:

Casa
October 26th, 2006, 08:41 PM
interesting article and i think it is important to introduce into the moroccan history book the pre islamic history including the history of berbers who where mainly pagans and the jews but i don't agree about this statement "
Though the Muslims defeated Kahina and converted her ancestors to Islam, many Berber communities maintained their Judaism" this may induce people in error that islam was introduced by force in morocco , which is wrong because it is the berbers who welcomed idriss 1st into morocco in order to deliver them because they heard about islam before it was introduced to morocco by idriss 1st. at that time many berbers converted by conviction and also many berbers kept their religion judaism.
i just wanted to clarify this point because its interesting to know the history of a country but it also important to check the sources, because sometimes there are some messages that can induce people in error

nwusaad
October 27th, 2006, 05:11 AM
interesting article and i think it is important to introduce into the moroccan history book the pre islamic history including the history of berbers who where mainly pagans and the jews but i don't agree about this statement "

Though the Muslims defeated Kahina and converted her ancestors to Islam, many Berber communities maintained their Judaism" this may induce people in error that islam was introduced by force in morocco , which is wrong because it is the berbers who welcomed idriss 1st into morocco in order to deliver them because they heard about islam before it was introduced to morocco by idriss 1st. at that time many berbers converted by conviction and also many berbers kept their religion judaism.

i just wanted to clarify this point because its interesting to know the history of a country but it also important to check the sources, because sometimes there are some messages that can induce people in error

I think that Islam was introduced by force into North Africa. Islam was as much a political power as a religious teaching. Its not because other societies are not Muslim that they feel inferior to people in the Middle East.
The Arabs found it soo hard to invade and Islamize the pagan/Jewish Berber population of Morocco that they had no other choice but to intermarry with the local native population and slowly make Arabize and infuse them with Middle East culture.

----I think you saying that Berbers became Muslims because they heard of the message of Islam and converted openly to the religion is nonsense. How can they hear of the message of Islam when it was just created 100 years ago. There were no airplanes, internet, people lived in nomadic villages in mountains... furthermore, if they did hear about it well that was the period of civil war. People do not give up their religion because they simply heard of something better. In this case, they would give up their language, religion, customs, way of life. No one would ever do that completely in a short period of time unless it was forced.
What you are saying is Wahhabi and the kind of propaganda history they teach people in public schools to basically say that Islam is so great everyone wants to be Muslim... To say that native North Afrian population accepted Islam because it was so great is like believing that Iraqis would welcome Americans with flowers because they brought democracy. Perhaps Islam is better than paganism to the same extent that Democracy is better than Dictatorship, but believe or not people DO NOT GIVE UP THEIR IDENTITY THAT EASILY.

It is like the whole Thanksgiving issue in America, that says that Europeans entered and took up America because the Native Americans liked doing trade with Americans... Look at the million of people that died and massacres (Cherokee trail of tears) Islam's spread was as much a politico-military force as it was a religious spread.

I hope you are not one of those that believes that Islamic message was so great that 1/3 to 1/2 the territory of the world decided to become Muslim in a couple decades!! I guess maybe the satellite dishes transmitted the message of Islam to people from Mali, Nigeria to China. hehe

"there are several references to the nature of Berber resistance in the translation by Franz Rosenthal. Ibn-Khaldun notes that the Berbers were given to rebellion and heresy under the Muslims, just as they had been under the Christian Byzantines, before the Muslim conquest. The Berbers continued to rebel and apostatized time after time. The Muslims massacred many of them. Centuries after Islam had been established among the Berber tribes, they continued reverting to their animistic practices and continued revolting and seceding. To merge Islam with their native animism, they adopted dissident [Kharajite] opinions many times.

Ibn Abi Zayd said that the Berbers in the Maghrib [North Africa] revolted twelve times and that Islam become firmly established among them only during the governorship of Musa ben Nusayr and thereafter. That is what is meant by the statement reported on the authority of 'Umar, that "Ifriqiyah [Africa] divides the hearts of its inhabitants." The statement refers to the great number of tribes and groups there, which causes them to be disobedient and unmanageable. "

nwusaad
October 27th, 2006, 05:28 AM
Casa: There is an important phrase that has opened up my view of things.

Churchill once said :"History is written by the victors."

Just think about it. Once it is your land, you can create the history you want about it since you have the monopoly of power. Furthermore, you get much more authority and legitimacy when arguing that people voluntarily joined your group rather than you needed to colonize them.
Finally, people in history despise the use of violence to achieve political goals. So in this case, why not just recreate history by telling people a version that makes their political power more legitimate...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joesph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister

Casa: Im not trying to pick on you, I know that we had many long conversations in different threads about secularism... but the truth is that you should not take these lambastments personally, they are only critiques and reveal the difference in our way of thinking.
It is simply that some of your logic goes totally against mine, that is why I try to post long responses to show my perspective

Redalinho
June 26th, 2008, 07:52 AM
http://www.judaisme-marocain.org/images/big/img_85_3.jpg

momo B
June 26th, 2008, 02:04 PM
qu'est ce qu'il faut apprendre encore de l'histoire du maroc merde!! entre l le makhzen, les khouanjia et les baathistes on ne connait qu'une histoire de pacotille!

MoroccanChica
June 26th, 2008, 09:43 PM
KAHINA, Jewish queen of Morocco

Jews lived side by side with Berbers, forging both economic and cultural ties; some Berbers even began to practice Judaism. In response, Berber spirituality transformed Jewish ritual, painting it with a belief in the power of demons and saints. When the Muslims swept across the North of Africa, Jews and Berbers defied them together. Across the Atlas Mountains, legendary Queen Kahina led a tribe of 7th century Jewish-Berbers in battle against encroaching Islamic warriors. Though the Muslims defeated Kahina and converted her ancestors to Islam, many Berber communities maintained their Judaism.

http://www.mesdessins.com/data/media/27/la_Kahina_reine_guerriere__cpry.JPG

Just a small correction: Kahina's religion is debated as well as her origins: Some say she's from Zenata in current Morocco and some say she's from Aures in current Algeria. Also her being Jewish is just one of the theroris about her relgion.

asarou
July 28th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Just a small correction: Kahina's religion is debated as well as her origins: Some say she's from Zenata in current Morocco and some say she's from Aures in current Algeria. Also her being Jewish is just one of the theroris about her relgion.

Dihya (aka al-Kahina,the sorceress by the arabs) was indeed from around baghai, khenchela in the aures region,she was the leader of the jerawa confederation which was in turn a member of the zenata confederation.
at the time , the territory of the zenata extended from tripolitania in libya,south and central tunisia to east numidia (algeria) including the aures.

some sizable numbers the zenata moved westward to west algeria (oranie) and morocco (l'oriental,east and central rif) in the 12 century , took fez and founded the marinide dynasty .

as for the jeweshness of dihya/kahina ,it is difficult to establish it or deny it ,for that,the town of baghai (bagai) was a stronghold of the christian donatists (the majority church in numidia).
and there is also the possibility that, it was the muslims who labeled her a jewish /sorceress after their bitter defeat by a woman !

on another hand,it could be also true, that her clan have converted to judaism a few decades early,since the amazigh people were not so orthodox about religious beliefs,it is also interesting to know that within the christian donatist church in north africa (as opposed to the roman catholic church),under the leadership of petilian in the late fourth century ,advocated the principle of <the free will> or the freedom of religion, in addition to their at the time known principle of <the separation of church and state>,advocated by the founder of the movement donatus magnus.

regards

Amazigh_89
July 28th, 2008, 02:43 PM
please guys stop to saying kahina
her real name is Dehiya and she's our spiritual mother :)

utopianvision
July 28th, 2008, 08:31 PM
i think there is debate over her religion because nothing was found in the jewish writings but only in the muslim writers.