I visit this forum sometimes, it seems like there are many nice Israeli's. Different than many media cladd about Israel.

So my question is, what do Israeli's generally think about a state for Kurdish people?

For those who aren't quite updated on us and our situation, I recommend some links.

The investment campaign called The Other Iraq gives good videos about Iraqi Kurdistan. The only free part of the Kurdish homeland. They are very interesting and are worth a view!

Here you can watch the videos:
History of Iraqi Kurds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfGs5TlqLM)

Economical Environment of Kurdistan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miWZRIJ18mk)

Kurds relationship with the west (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVBwbYz4wk)

Awaiting opinions!

hey my brother! my grandmother is a kurd :)
i support the kurds, they should have a country of their own but it's so difficult because non of the countries - syria, turkey,iran and iraq will let them do it.

I read somewhere that several Israeli companies are helping the Kurds in Iraq with security, transportation and agricultural infrastructures. But the Kurds keep it quiet so not to upset the rest of the Iraqis, and the Israeli government keeps it quiet as not to upset Turkey.

Personally, I’m all for it.

I have some points why we deserve a country.

- We have suffered from the most horrific war crimes in the Middle East.
Like the largest-scale of chemical weapons attack on a civilian population, in Halabja. Where 5000 were killed instantly when breathing.

Another at least 60 air attacks with mustard gasses, the use if Sarin and VX gasses against Kurdish civilians.

The Anfal campaign which led to the death of at least 182.000 people and the destruction 4500 villages.

The supression of the 1991 uprising which led to the death of 50.000 Kurds.

The 1983 Barzani massacre, where 8000 of the same tribe were executed or deported to the southern Iraqi desert.

The continious bombarding of Kurdish villages and cities. Such as the Qela Dize bombing, in which 250 Kurds died (half of them children). (http://www.kurdishrightsconference.org/images/slideshow33.jpg)

The daily loss of life of Kurds in prisons, torture camps, forced labour. Such as the Slemani Prison camp and the Duhok prison camp. Where in each camp ,10.000 Kurds were executed.

Kurdish girls kidnapped and deported to Egypt to work as sex slaves. (http://www.kurdmedia.com/articles.asp?id=9230)



- We are the largest ethnic group without an own state.

- We know that we are an ancient people that have always fought against opression, which has become a part of Kurdish daily life.

If you want to know more about foreigners visiting Iraqi Kurdistan, look at these pages.
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001055.html (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001059.html)
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001059.html
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001061.html

I support a free and independent Kurdistan, that would be created from Northen Iraq, and small parts of Syria, Iran, and Turkey.

one of my best friends is kurd,he also supports the idea of a kurdish state!

there is no point of this thread.

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.

so the answer would be yes Israeli believe that Kurds deserve a state.

i think all israelies and jews in general support a state for the kurds, but i dont think all kurds in general even support israel

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.


generalizing. :weirdo:

goodmood u're not austrian?:D

and i support Kurdish state!

there is no point of this thread.

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.

so the answer would be yes Israeli believe that Kurds deserve a state.

:crazy: :nono: :| :blahblah: :weird:

I bet you could say the same about Israel. And I don't blame them for wanting the Arab counties to be divided even more. Atleast they may have 1 ally state who know what they have been through. Do you not have any sympathy for the Kurds you Arab fascist?

I'm an Arab and i think it is about time the Kurds have their own state. The Kurds are very nice and sweet people, and they have been through a lot, especially under Saddam Hussein's regime.

Hopefully one day we will witness the creation of the Republic of Kurdistan.

and to the person who said Israel would love to see the Islamic world divided, well guess what, it already is divided, and i don't think Israel or any other country can divide it even more.

:blahblah: :blahblah:
Your supportings won't change anything , they will never have their own republic

Sad, isn't it?

I feel the Kurds are being tricked by US and Israel the same way the British tricked the Arabs into fighting for them against Turks during WW1. "Fight for us and do our work then we'll give you freedom"....Israel is a modern-day Lawrence of Arabia, they only care about themselves.

there is no point of this thread.

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.

so the answer would be yes Israeli believe that Kurds deserve a state.


On the contrary, instead of tensions between ethnic groups, those groups can live peacefully next to eachother with having their countries.
History has told us that Kurds being attached to Iraq, only has killed more Muslims, than if it was independent. Try to think brighter my friend, than only involve Israel into every inter-Muslim question. Arabs are separated into +20 states, so it's not a crime Kurds can be separated from Arabs.

Katoom, thanks for your kind words. Do not think I hate Arabs or whatever, I just want justice.

I bet you could say the same about Israel. And I don't blame them for wanting the Arab counties to be divided even more. Atleast they may have 1 ally state who know what they have been through. Do you not have any sympathy for the Kurds you Arab fascist?
fascist is a big word that is 100 percent westren invention and not arabic. dont generalize when u make comments. .
on the other hand, i think although the qs was directed to israelis, i belive that two states has to be established in the regione, PALESTINE AND KURDISTAN.

On the contrary, instead of tensions between ethnic groups, those groups can live peacefully next to eachother with having their countries.
History has told us that Kurds being attached to Iraq, only has killed more Muslims, than if it was independent. Try to think brighter my friend, than only involve Israel into every inter-Muslim question. Arabs are separated into +20 states, so it's not a crime Kurds can be separated from Arabs.

Katoom, thanks for your kind words. Do not think I hate Arabs or whatever, I just want justice.

You are post welcome my friend. and i agree with you totally, anyone how is not an Arab should have the right to be seperated from the Arabs, because Arabs have never helped anyone, even their own kind. Lebanon is a fine example to how they turned our beautiful country into their battlefield against Israel. Many Lebanese want Lebanon to withdraw its membership from the Arab League.

You are post welcome my friend. and i agree with you totally, anyone how is not an Arab should have the right to be seperated from the Arabs, because Arabs have never helped anyone, even their own kind. Lebanon is a fine example to how they turned our beautiful country into their battlefield against Israel. Many Lebanese want Lebanon to withdraw its membership from the Arab League.
1500 million dollars were given to you by arabs , besides the big investmens, its the dictatorships dude not the people.

You are post welcome my friend. and i agree with you totally, anyone how is not an Arab should have the right to be seperated from the Arabs, because Arabs have never helped anyone, even their own kind. Lebanon is a fine example to how they turned our beautiful country into their battlefield against Israel. Many Lebanese want Lebanon to withdraw its membership from the Arab League.

3Ala 3einy wa 3ala rassi :)

Your post is even more welcome, It's nice to see the good mentality ;)
I do not want to separate from Iraq because I dismay Arabs, no. I have good experiences with Arabs. I want to separate because I am afraid there will be another Kurdish drama in the future, history has learned us this.

I also thank the Israeli's for their support.

1500 million dollars were given to you by arabs , besides the big investmens, its the dictatorships dude not the people.

the Arabs (Libyans, Saudi, Iraqi "Saddamist", Eygptians) armed various Lebanese militias to kill other Lebanese during the Lebanese civil war. What's the use of the construction money they send us when it was they who armed those groups to destroy our country. When i say that the some Lebanese want their Government to withdraw their membership from the Arab League, its not because we hate Arabs, it is because we hate the Arabian Governments (i.e Dictators).

ok, point understood:)

the Kurds should have a country in the middle of Europe because of the holocaust they've endured in the Middle East. Same as Israel..

there is no point of this thread.

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.

so the answer would be yes Israeli believe that Kurds deserve a state.
Not everyone is as small minded as you, smussuw. You do not even have the decency to respond for yourself, but you now take liberties to respond for all Israelis as well. And you claim there is no point to this thread.
Had it not been for this thread, you would not have enjoyed the delightful meal you have made out of putting your foot in your own mouth. B'Tei-a-von.

Not everyone is as small minded as you, smussuw. You do not even have the decency to respond for yourself, but you now take liberties to respond for all Israelis as well. And you claim there is no point to this thread.
Had it not been for this thread, you would not have enjoyed the delightful meal you have made out of putting your foot in your own mouth. B'Tei-a-von.

Hahaha.... this is the only way to reply to closed minded people

edit

goodmood u're not austrian?:D

and i support Kurdish state!

Austrian, kurd and romanian

goodmood are u jewish?? :?

You are post welcome my friend. and i agree with you totally, anyone how is not an Arab should have the right to be seperated from the Arabs, because Arabs have never helped anyone, even their own kind. Lebanon is a fine example to how they turned our beautiful country into their battlefield against Israel. Many Lebanese want Lebanon to withdraw its membership from the Arab League.

Nonsense. All money & investments that are being poured in Lebanon come from Arab World. Many Lebanese made their wealth in Arab Countries i.e R. Hariri & Issam Faris. So Admit it, u can not live without relying on other Arab countries. Same applies to Syria, Jordan & Egypt

^^ I think that's true. And whatever money and weapons were given by Arabs to Muslim Lebanese were used against the lebanese christians in the civil war.

Kurds should have their own state but they never will. If they ever did it would be a state highly influenced by the US in the heart of the middle east and arabs wont be too happy with that.

^^ I think that's true. And whatever money and weapons were given by Arabs to Muslim Lebanese were used against the lebanese christians in the civil war.

Kurds should have their own state but they never will. If they ever did it would be a state highly influenced by the US in the heart of the middle east and arabs wont be too happy with that.

You know nothing about the Lebanese Civil War. Every Lebanese knows that in 1976 Syria backed the Christian Militias against the Muslim Militias and Palestinians then they took a different role afterwards. For your information two of the Palestinian Militias at that time were led by Christians i.e George Habash leading the PFLP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFLP and Niaf Hawatmeh leading DFLP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

Later when the Syrian supported the Muslims, Iraq supported the Christians. The civil war in Lebanon looked as if it was Muslims versus Christian while it was a war of interests. Every one fought against every one. Muslims & Palestinians against Christians, then Muslims against Muslims and Christians against Christians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_civil_war

Well sargon saying that christians were abused by muslim can never be a weak point nowadays.

I was told often by some lebanese christians living in cyprus that christians were armed by europeans and the muslims from arab states. I guess there are more than just one point of view of the matter which is nothing surprising. Anyways i am no expert in the matter and it is a bit out of topic. This is about the possibility of a Kurdish state.

You know nothing about the Lebanese Civil War. Every Lebanese knows that in 1976 Syria backed the Christian Militias against the Muslim Militias and Palestinians then they took a different role afterwards. For your information two of the Palestinian Militias at that time were led by Christians i.e George Habash leading the PFLP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFLP and Niaf Hawatmeh leading DFLP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

Later when the Syrian supported the Muslims, Iraq supported the Christians. The civil war in Lebanon looked as if it was Muslims versus Christian while it was a war of interests. Every one fought against every one. Muslims & Palestinians against Christians, then Muslims against Muslims and Christians against Christians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_civil_war

Exactly... a war of intrests, the Arabs using Lebanon as a battlefield for their own intrests. countries funded the militias to do thier bidding in Lebanon and to hell with the Lebanese population. in the end when the Muslims, Palestinians, and the Syrians formed an alliance and with the support of the "Arab League", the Christians started to feel betrayed and went to Israel for help (and they did help them), and the General Aoun allied himself with Iraqis who funded his little Government in Jounieh.

The Bottom line is that the Arab League never helped Lebanon.

Kurdia is better than kurdistan, we have enough stans already :)

Kurdia is better than kurdistan, we have enough stans already :)

"stan" is the Aryan suffix for land. And since Kurds are one of the Indo-European nations, they have called their lands Kurdistan ;)

I have written a number of articles on the Kurds. I find it simply unimaginable that today, in 2006, there are Arabs coming into this thread and saying that the Kurds don't deserve their own state or, even worse, that an independent Kurdistan would "divide the Islamic world." What united Islamic world are you talking about? Because I have never seen any of the unity you are talking about. I've seen Persians fighting Arabs, Arabs fighting Arabs, Arabs fighting Jews, and Arabs and Turks working together to exterminate the Kurdish identity.

The Kurds, on the other hand, have been meek. The Kurds of northern Iraq (the only ones in control of their own destiny) have chosen not to adopt an 'eye for an eye' policy, instead allowing hundreds of thousands of Arabs to work in the booming and stable Kurdish north. They have given numerous Turkish companies reconstruction contracts. They have opened their arms to Iranian businesses and are establishing a free trade zone on their border with Iran.

I posted a poll here recently that stated over 60% of Kurds in northern Iraq seek to establish diplomatic ties with Israel. Imagine that. That's really only the half of it. The Kurds have also passed investor-friendly laws and have established freedom of religion in the Kurdistan region--nearly all of Iraq's Christians and Yazidis have migrated to Kurdistan. There is a change coming despite what the medieval minds might be hoping for. Kurdistan is paving the way to control its own fate.

im all for a Kurdish state, but not at the expense of one inch of Persian land. I also think that Kurds havbe enjoyed centuries of prosperity in Iran, in peace, with everyone else, as an integrated part of society, occupying high places, prolly a little less so in the past 20 years of this shitty government but still. that said, i can see why they would want a Kurdish state, and ide certainly welcome it, cuz thats just one more country in the MidEast thats not Arab, and thats a good thing.

there is no point of this thread.

Israel would be more than happy to see the Islamic world divided even more.

so the answer would be yes Israeli believe that Kurds deserve a state.

Salahdin was kurdish....

he did more for islam..unite a strong religion in his times...

i support the kurd's...nice poeple....

I have written a number of articles on the Kurds. I find it simply unimaginable that today, in 2006, there are Arabs coming into this thread and saying that the Kurds don't deserve their own state or, even worse, that an independent Kurdistan would "divide the Islamic world." What united Islamic world are you talking about? Because I have never seen any of the unity you are talking about. I've seen Persians fighting Arabs, Arabs fighting Arabs, Arabs fighting Jews, and Arabs and Turks working together to exterminate the Kurdish identity.

The Kurds, on the other hand, have been meek. The Kurds of northern Iraq (the only ones in control of their own destiny) have chosen not to adopt an 'eye for an eye' policy, instead allowing hundreds of thousands of Arabs to work in the booming and stable Kurdish north. They have given numerous Turkish companies reconstruction contracts. They have opened their arms to Iranian businesses and are establishing a free trade zone on their border with Iran.

I posted a poll here recently that stated over 60% of Kurds in northern Iraq seek to establish diplomatic ties with Israel. Imagine that. That's really only the half of it. The Kurds have also passed investor-friendly laws and have established freedom of religion in the Kurdistan region--nearly all of Iraq's Christians and Yazidis have migrated to Kurdistan. There is a change coming despite what the medieval minds might be hoping for. Kurdistan is paving the way to control its own fate.

Yes thank you Zorobabel, you have given a fine explanation.

Each week, almost 8000 Arabs from Iraq migrate to Kurdistan to work in the prosporious region and flee the bombings in the dangerous arab parts of Iraq,

According to this (http://pukmedia.com/arabicnews/6-8/news31.html) Kurdish newspaper, 50.000 Arabs have arrived in the city of Slemani only (not to mention other Kurdish cities) just in 2006.
Tell me what Arab government let Kurds seek refuge when Saddam was using VX nerve gas on our villages.

I do not have any problems with relations with Israel, they are a nation like many other nations. So it's not a problem.

If there is any country which should give you a piece of land then you can found your state but since there won't be any state which will give anything you can only live with this dream.

-Don't expect Turkey to give some land since Kurds own the same rights as Turks and I don't thik that Kurds living in Turkey would move to a "kurdistan" which is founded somewhere in Mideast.
-Iran and Syria? Dream on.
-Iraq is your last hope but even Iraq is a wet dream...

Sorry but it's not the fault of these nations that Kurds were not able to found their own state centuries ago..

If there is any country which should give you a piece of land then you can found your state but since there won't be any state which will give anything you can only live with this dream.

-Don't expect Turkey to give some land since Kurds own the same rights as Turks and I don't thik that Kurds living in Turkey would move to a "kurdistan" which is founded somewhere in Mideast.
-Iran and Syria? Dream on.
-Iraq is your last hope but even Iraq is a wet dream...

Sorry but it's not the fault of these nations that Kurds were not able to found their own state centuries ago..

If we were treated like humans and got our rights in all those countries, then even I wouldn't bother living in those countries. However, those countries have tried and some are still trying to exterminate Kurdish identity from the world. So that's why we are not fond to live within those states. If conditions change, for example in Turkey, then the Kurds will see Turkey as their home. Not when they are treated badly till today, they are still called Mountain Turks.

Your points are not quite valid.
-Kurds do not own the same rights as Turks. Kurdish identity is forbidden in Turkey.
- Syria and Iran are targets in the middle-east, so a government overthrow will bring hope.
- Iraq is at the moment of division. Expect a Kurdish state within 5 years.

Kurdish Identity is forbidden in Turkey? You hear everywhere people talking Kurdish, you see in every channel people singing Kurdish songs, kurdish education isn't forbidden anymore, there are kurdish regional newspapers and TV channels, many mayors in eastern Turkey are Kurds, there is a kurdish party which got many votes in eastern Turkey... Every Kurd can reach everything a Turk can do. President, pop star, naitonal player, MP etc...
But you'er right there is problem with Kurds living in Turkey. They move to western cities and live as if they were in any eastern anatolian village. They don't have a high income but make at least 5-6 children... Most of them aren't even registered, girls don't get any education, boys sell pretzel and tissues on the streets, if they get a bit older they become criminals because of the bad influence and no education!

Kurdish Identity is forbidden in Turkey? You hear everywhere people talking Kurdish, you see in every channel people singing Kurdish songs, kurdish education isn't forbidden anymore, there are kurdish regional newspapers and TV channels, many mayors in eastern Turkey are Kurds, there is a kurdish party which got many votes in eastern Turkey... Every Kurd can reach everything a Turk can do. President, pop star, naitonal player, MP etc...
But you'er right there is problem with Kurds living in Turkey. They move to western cities and live as if they were in any eastern anatolian village. They don't have a high income but make at least 5-6 children... Most of them aren't even registered, girls don't get any education, boys sell pretzel and tissues on the streets, if they get a bit older they become criminals because of the bad influence and no education!

You remind me of something again, whereisflat
90% of the Turks on the internet, always offensive when someone criticizes Turkey.

Well, then READ CAREFULLY


This is the constitution of Turkey (http://www.tbmm.gov.tr/english/constitution.htm)

Not a single mentioning on Kurds (who make up almost 25% of Turkey) or it's rights to minority groups. The only people that this constitution talks about are Turks.

- Kurdish language was banned and you could land in prison for speaking Kurdish, even in private until 1991. Since then, Kurdish is still not recognized as one of Turkey's languages, not even a minority language.

- Turkey does not recognise the new Iraqi passport with Kurdish script (http://www.kurdmedia.com/articles.asp?id=12514)

- There are no Kurdish TV stations in Turkey (give me a name if there are). Writing in Kurdish is strictly forbidden, billboards and signs must always be written in Turkish. Kurdish cities and villages are renamed with Turkish names.

- Kurds cannot teach their children Kurdish in public schools. In 2002, only 2 PRIVATE schools were opened for a population of at least 15 million Kurds.

- There are NO Kurdish political parties in the Turkish government, only parties with pro-peoples banners. Which are shut down constantly.

- Kurds can only get high-ranked places in Turkey when they support the constitution (denial of Kurds), act as Turks and only speak Turkish. Otherwise they will end up like Leyla Zana (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyla_Zana). Imprisoned 10 years, for speaking Kurdish in the Turkish parliament.

May I make some comparisons with Israel (which you all criticize for it's treatment of Palestinians,blahblah)
Israel has 2 official languages, Hebrew and Arabic
The website of the Israeli government is in both Hebrew AND Arabic (http://www.gov.il/firstGov/topnavarb/arabic)
Streets signs and names in Israel are in both Hebrew and Arabic (http://www.missouri.edu/~mafdwww/pages/news/2006/february/pics/israeli_sign.jpg)
Israeli banknotes are in Hebrew AND Arabic (http://www.banknotes.com/IL53.JPG)

Turkey bears none of these qualities regarding Kurds.

The Kurdish area in Turkey is highly undeveloped by the Turkish government (probably the poorest in the MidEast), whereas Israel does not leave Arab Israeli's poor.

The treaty of Sevres mentions an independent Kurdistan.
But Ataturk created the new Turkey and denied there were Kurds, he called them and are still officially by Turkish laws: Turks that have forgotten their identity or Mountain Turks.
Kurds rised up against this fascism, but were massacred by hundreds of thousands. Do not forget the Dersim genocide. (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:pWd_OBxTZAsJ:www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruinessen/personal/publications/Dersim.pdf+dersim+genocide&hl=nl&gl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=5)

The Turkish army cleared more than 3000 Kurdish villages and ethnically cleansed 3 million Kurds from their homes, making them refugees in their own country. during the 1980's and 1990's.

The Kurdish area has constantly been under martial law and the Turkish army violates human rights daily.
This is what Turkey does to Kurds.... (http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish_crimes_pictures.htm)

And this.... (http://www.kurdistan.org/Multimedia/turkey.html)

Extermination of the Kurds in Turkey (http://www.greece.org/genocide/books/miracle/page174-175.html)
http://www.greece.org/genocide/books/miracle/kurds1.jpg

Take a look at this video, done by your beloved Turkish state, tourist destination#1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVZF4PbC5_c)

The Turkish government promotes fascist extremist parties (http://i7.tinypic.com/20z74ib.jpg) to operate and form gangs to hit every non-Turk in Turkey. Look at this video....in 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApkZJeJuIgM)

There is systematic torture in Turkish prisons. Visit Amnesty international for example..... (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR440402002)

Or Human Rights Watch.... (http://hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=turkey)



According to whereisflat, Kurds should not have their country, so that means they are Turkish citizens and thus are free to migrate within the country (Turkey). However, whereisflat seems to be angry that Kurds are migrating to "Western Turkish" cities. Which means he does not want Kurds to be Turkish citizens either. I think he would fit in this forum (http://www.stormfront.org) more...

You can fool others, but not me.
I know and you know very well, that Turkey is responsible for many of worlds most gruesome crimes against mankind. Which is why you do not want anyone to criticize Turkey, you want to show the world only that Turkey is a heaven for tourists, but I know the facts, and thats why you directly step to rude language.
For those who want to know more about Turkey ..Take a visit here (http://www.geocities.com/athens/cyprus/7758/)

The armenians use the same picture for the "genocide" :D :D :jk:

http://www.greece.org/genocide/books/miracle/kurds1.jpg

I'll answer to your post later, right now I'm going to have some fun...