^^ Wow, KGB has that much free time to bitch and moan about Trump for over 3 years? Did you get picked on in school by some kid with the last name of Trump? Sheeesh

Seriously though, what's up with that?

Seriously though, what's up with that?

What can I say...complaining about Bush is boring.

There's nothing up with it.

Let's face it...you're just being childish and lashing out because you have a vested interest. And at least I keep on topic, rather than rely on personal slander...like you. trumptoronto may be paid to only say nice things about the project, but it also keeps him civil at the same time.

I've been routing for the "building" all along. I want to see it built as much as the next person. It may have had some par for the course because of location, price, and a few PR issues because of Trump's name, and it has taken a lot of time to get it off the ground...but eventually it was going to happen...and that's great. If I want to get into the nitty gritty of "why" those issues exist, then that is my perogative.

The only regrets I have about the project, is that this was approved for our first (and perhaps only) 1000+ footer for Toronto, and a new tallest for Canada. The fact that the developer chose to shorten it, rather than the usual council shoot-down is to my knowledge...unprecedented.

And as I assume we are all skyscraper fans here, I'm sure we are all a little let down by that.



Scroll down a little for KGB's post. Is this the one that got them going?

Naw...I think it was cad_monkey that got that going.




KGB

Let's face it...you're just being childish and lashing out because you have a vested interest. And at least I keep on topic, rather than rely on personal slander.

But this hasn't been ALL about YOU. That is a concept you seem to have a hard time understanding (which probably is the real reason Trump appeals to you).

Way to take the high road.

Enjoy your investment....I hope you make money.




KGB

Intheknow07 you said hoarding going up September 4. Is this confirmed?

Intheknow07 you said hoarding going up September 4. Is this confirmed?

Barricades on Sept 4th is what I have been told

KGB has no life. He spends all his time here criticizing and complaining. What a poor, trife loner.

And you think your so much better by calling him names? Check yourself before you check others.

"Check"? That's my line. And I have no qualms about what I said. You wanna defend the forumer that comes down hard on everyone else, go right ahead. But as long my dialogue stays rated PG I'll say what I please.

Careful. Jaye has been overzealous with his warnings lately.

Eh, don't shoot me, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'll try and deal with him when he comes down on others. Your post served no other purpose than to slander another person. Remaining "PG" is not the only objective here, once you offend someone you've crossed the line. Read your post again and send me a personal message, tell me whether you think you've crossed that line or not. Once we've established that, everything else will fall into place.

^^ This is rediculous

Dino Domingo, if you get suspended or banned over this, send me a message and I will be done providing anything to this thread. I would hope trumptoronto would do the same as well.

While I also agree KGB's complaining was getting irritating, I don't think we should resort to name calling.

And he seems to have stopped. So we should live and let live.

I've got an idea. Let's just let it drop.

I'd rather see Trump cancelled and something taller, better built in its place. After 2010 would be just the icing on the cake.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/istrian/TrumpNoComment.jpg

Speak for the damn self. Don't speak for us. I am glad this is a go.

^^ This is rediculous

Dino Domingo, if you get suspended or banned over this, send me a message and I will be done providing anything to this thread. I would hope trumptoronto would do the same as well.

I didn't even give him a warning or infraction. Just chill out dude. It's too hot outside :cool:

While I also agree KGB's complaining was getting irritating, I don't think we should resort to name calling.

And he seems to have stopped. So we should live and let live.

I sent him a personal message.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/istrian/TrumpNoComment.jpg

This is interesting but you truncated the wrong part of the building in your rendering. It's the top part of the building that is going away, not the middle.

Hey Istrian... that still looks ok... afterall everything is relative re: height. Trump still looks tall to a shorter person or a shorter city.

Can't get over how pissed everyone is at this circumcision... people are obviously inflamed by the change.

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/finger.jpg

Elliot, I like the little brat giving him the finger! Classy touch! :cheers:

IntheKnow07 and TrumpToronto I want to personally thank you two for providing us with this information. Please continue to do so.

As much of a defender of Trump as I have had to be here, I thought the picture was hilarious! Thanks for the good laugh Elliot.

Skyscraper fanatics... we are. All ages, races, religions (even though those secular folks from Bharat tend to use too much gold)... the stumpy trumpy 900 footer (the tallest to begin construction in more than 2 decades) is nonetheless an afront to our heavenly aspirations and aesthetic.

Glad I made you smile.

^^Speak for the damn self. Don't speak for us. I am glad this is a go.

d'uh ... what do think I'm doing (some of us may have vested interested elsewhere)

Regardless, the design for such a tall building should be exceptional - not something so easily copied by some stetson toting boomtown out west

This building will not be stumpy!!!!!!! it will be slim have you seen the lot it will be built on????? The lot is extremely small!! Trust me this building WILL be slim and look good!

Let's try that again.

This building will not be stumpy!!!!!!! it will be slim have you seen the lot it will be built on????? The lot is extremely small!! Trust me this building WILL be slim and look good!

If they didn't think it was a cute rhyme, they would have never called it stumpy. Go ahead and call it stumpy, ugly, or whatever pleases you..... I am just glad it is getting built VERY SOON!!!!!

I am counting on Taller Better taking pictures of the construction and posting them on this thread so I can see Stumpy with my own eyes. :banana:

This building will not be stumpy!!!!!!!

how can it not be with a spire designed for a 1000 footer

As much of a defender of Trump as I have had to be here,

reminds me of one of our elders who was a fierce defender of our home grown Trump wannabe - I only hope he got his deposit back ;)

Speak for the damn self. Don't speak for us. I am glad this is a go.


Eheheh...and you are now speaking in the name of...???...
...?!?...!?!... besides, did I used word us in my post or mentioned
anybody :ohno: :bash: :ohno:
...and: As I recall, I didn't write anything in my post except quoting "Valantino"

hold your horses Batman:cheers:

is there a start date for this building yet.Sorry if someone has already said so

^^rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

sorry ...


couldn't help myself - hoarding is "planned" to go up Sept 4 with excavation to follow shortly after

What is so funny?

is there a start date for this building yet.Sorry if someone has already said so

Next month

cool i'm coming over to toronto for the new year celebrations so i'll take a look when i come over.

how can it not be with a spire designed for a 1000 footer

60-stories (Ritz, Kirkor, 2001) = 800 ft. (I can't recall the exact height)
65-stories (Ritz, Zeidler, pre-Trump International-2001) = 980 ft.
68-stories (first launch of Trump Toronto) = 1,012 ft.
70-stories (additional floors added-2005) = 1,064 ft.
57-stories (revised-2007) = 925 ft.

I don't recall anyone saying the building design was stumpy at 980 ft., and the spire has been around for a while...

In general, we're talking a difference of just 55- to 139-ft. less than previously proposed. But, to each his/her own...

I don't recall anyone saying the building design was stumpy at 980 ft

I remember a whole thread dedicated to its stumpiness when SSC was still WSS

Never was impressed with this development, however I'm just happy that it will finally break ground and that parking lot will be filled up.

Priciest condo in tallest tower goes to youngest billionaire

Toronto's Alex Shnaider, the financial muscle behind Trump Tower, plans to keep penthouse

Aug 11, 2007 04:30 AM
Tony Wong
Staff Reporter

In the battle for one-upmanship in Toronto's luxury real estate market, Alex Shnaider has revealed a convincing hand.

The enigmatic Toronto billionaire says in an exclusive interview he has decided to keep what has been billed as Canada's most expensive condominium, valued at up to $20 million, at the Trump International Hotel & Tower for himself.

A work in progress, his mansion in the sky could be as large as 14,000 square feet, and will have, in some areas, soaring 9-metre ceilings.

"You can put an observatory up there. It's a great place to get away from the wife if we ever have a fight," joked Shnaider.

While New York billionaire Donald Trump is the brand, Shnaider, at 39 Canada's youngest billionaire, is the financial muscle behind the ultra-luxury project in the city's financial district.

The most expensive condo sold in the city so far is thought to be former Bank of Montreal CEO Tony Comper's One St. Thomas penthouse at $15 million.

Shnaider – whom Forbes says is the 557th richest man in the world with a net worth of $1.8 billion (U.S.) – will presumably give himself a respectable friends-and-family discount, but his is an expensive pied-à-terre. He is already building a magnificent new home in Toronto, less than half an hour away.

And it's not as if he's living in squalor now. His current 15,000-square-foot residence is a traditional stone mansion put together in 2000 by celebrity designer Katherine Newman. The property was listed for $10.9 million (Cdn.) two years ago when he was thinking of relocating to Russia, but it was taken off the market after he decided to keep his headquarters in Toronto.

The home is stunning, decorated in a traditional English manor style, but the security-conscious billionaire allowed the Star a rare glimpse of his residence only if its location not be revealed. In the garage is a gleaming silver $450,000 (U.S.) Mercedes SLR McLaren, barely 2,000 kilometres on the odometer.

A car nut, he most famously bought a Formula One team in 2005 for $50 million and sold it last year for $106.6 million.

Other toys include a 170-foot Benetti yacht, the Midlandia, (which sleeps 12 and rents for a mere $270,000 a week when he's not using it) and a private jet.

How did Shnaider get this rich?

His private company Midland Group, which he runs with London-based partner Eduard Shifrin (number 538 on the Forbes list at $1.9 billion) has diverse holdings, including steel mills in the Ukraine, the national power grid of Armenia, real estate, retail malls, and manufacturing in Russia and Siberia. The company has 34 offices and more than 50,000 employees and earnings in excess of $2 billion annually.

And Shnaider, it seems, is putting some of that money where his mouth is – at least with his $500 million (Cdn.) Toronto venture.

Rumours have persisted at the Trump site on Bay and Adelaide Sts. that sales were poor and the project was destined for failure.

Shnaider was taking a three-week break with his family on the Midlandia – he may have been in the waters of Turkey at the time, or it could have been Greece – when the call came that news had broken in the Toronto Star that his 70-storey Trump International Hotel & Tower was going to be downsized and eleven residential floors, including two hotel floors, lopped off.

"The hotel part of the sales was always doing well. Residential sales were a problem," says Shnaider.

"A lot of buyers were buying for themselves, usually people working on Bay St. and, because of the skepticism, when they didn't know a date they are quite reluctant. This is especially true for the larger, more expensive units because you have talk on the street that it won't be built."

But Shnaider said he expects construction to start in September. He also says 75 per cent of the building is sold. Over the past two and a half years, the developer says, approximately $275 million worth of property has been sold.

The original plans called for only four residential units per floor, but that had to be changed, he says.

"We needed to stimulate sales because the units were very big and expensive and they weren't selling as fast as we would have liked," he says candidly. "We ended up making this six units per floor to make it more affordable."

The higher density meant that something had to go, says Shnaider.

But even with 13 fewer storeys, the high ceiling heights in the building will still make it the tallest residential tower in the city, he says.

"We ended up with more units than we were allowed to have for engineering purposes. To provide the amount of service necessary, we couldn't do it with the higher density, we really had to make the building smaller," he says.

When the building was shortened, there was skepticism from some in the real estate community that the rationale was pure spin to explain falling sales.

In an earlier Star story, one of Shnaider's executives said one reason for the height reduction was "the more residents we had, the more elevators were going to be used, and that wasn't what we wanted in an exclusive building like Trump." (Four elevators are designated for residents for the 57 habitable floors, although the building may be two stories higher to allow for mechanical systems.)

What is known is that sales for the tower started in September 2004, three years before the proposed start of construction. In comparison, it took competitor Ritz Carlton 14 months to break ground.

But the buck stops with Shnaider, who is remarkably frank during the interview. He says he isn't sure why the $500 million project didn't sell as well as expected initially, although sales have been better since the smaller suites were introduced.

"We were certainly asking very high prices at the time. But we may have been too early for the market," he says, noting that the Four Seasons and the Shangri-La hotel brands now have condominiums selling in Toronto.

"We started at $700 a square foot, which was unheard of back then and now we're over a thousand a square foot. But I think the market has caught up."

His purchase of the penthouse, meanwhile, may prompt skepticism that Shnaider couldn't find a buyer for the pricey property. But he insists that he's buying because "it's a good investment."

One gets the sense that Shnaider would break ground if only as a point of pride – whether it made money or not. But the business person in him seems resolute: "If this were a loss-making venture, I wouldn't go ahead," he says.

Shnaider has shown he knows when to cut and run: He sold the Formula 1 Team in short order because he couldn't find a Russian sponsor. "We underestimated the interest of Russian companies, thinking they would embrace it more than they did," he says.

And, despite the prominence of the Trump project, it is only one small part of his diverse holdings.

Over the past two months, for example, he has rolled out a new convenience store chain in the Ukraine, tapping the need for modern community-based retail. He plans to open 1,500 stores in the next several years.

But the Trump project is the most visible part of his empire, especially since it's in his backyard.

"I wanted to build something important in the city, something I could be proud of," he says.

By the time Shnaider bought the site, the Trump Tower was already steeped in controversy. "I knew from the beginning this wouldn't be an easy project," he says.

The site was initially supposed to have been a Ritz Carlton hotel and condominium, with Donald Trump as a partner, when it was first announced in 2001.

That soon fizzled after the Star revealed one of the original partners had been convicted of bankruptcy fraud and embezzlement in the United States and had fled to Canada. The Ritz Carlton backed out, eventually finding a new site years later at Simcoe and Wellington Sts.

Meanwhile, the original location was sold to Shnaider and his development company. Trump remained as a partner and his brand was put on the hotel – the flamboyant developer's first venture at the time outside the United States.

It seemed like an ideal match: Two billionaires who exemplified the high life would be creating one of the world's tallest and most luxurious residencies in Toronto.

In many ways the building symbolized the loftiness of Shnaider's ambition. To say his rise was meteoric seems almost like an understatement, since he formed the holding company Midland Resources only in 1994 at the age of 26.

Born in St. Petersburg, Shnaider moved to North York when he was 13. His parents, an engineer and a dentist, ended up buying a deli.

Shnaider went to William Lyon Mackenzie C.I. while helping his parents in the deli. He later studied economics at York University.

With help from his politically connected future father-in-law, Shnaider ended up in the steel business, eventually setting up his own steel trading shop in Russia. One of his big customers was the Zaporizhstal plant in eastern Ukraine, one of the country's largest steel producers. With privatization in the '90s, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Shnaider and his partner Shifrin, an academic with a PhD in metallurgical engineering, formed Midland. They eventually bought the Zaporizhstal plant.

From there, they built a substantial collection of assets throughout Eastern Europe.

The steel plant acquisition was perfect timing, as prices for the material started to jump with the economic rise of India and China. Now the industry is in major consolidation, with steel mills fetching hefty premiums. Asked whether he would sell, Shnaider says with a smile, "Everything is for sale. ... But we are concentrating on other areas such as retail and real estate."

It continues to be a sore point with the self-made billionaire, however, that a negative stigma seems to surround successful Russians.

He wrote a letter to Forbes after a mostly laudatory profile of him in 2005 that referred to the "murky" world of Russian business.

"There is this stereotype that was especially strong during the '90s that every Russian who is successful or made money must have done so through connections with the mafia, or arms dealing or prostitution, which I find really offensive," he says. "But Russians are incredibly educated people who are fast learners and willing to work hard. That is the stereotype you don't hear about as much."

Time is precious for Shnaider, who travels constantly, including an appointment in New York this day. He glances at his oversized watch, a $150,000 Audemars Piguet Royal Oak tourbillion. After saying goodbye to his guests, he slips into a jacket by Neapolitan tailor Attolini.

Then it's into the sports car and a brisk drive to his waiting jet.

Let's have an official countdown to the start of this project. Let's have some fun.

Let's have an official countdown to the start of this project. Let's have some fun.

YEAAAAAAAAA:banana:

Who wants to join?

Priciest condo in tallest tower goes to youngest billionaire

Toronto's Alex Shnaider, the financial muscle behind Trump Tower, plans to keep penthouse

Aug 11, 2007 04:30 AM
Tony Wong
Staff Reporter

In the battle for one-upmanship in Toronto's luxury real estate market, Alex Shnaider has revealed a convincing hand.

The enigmatic Toronto billionaire says in an exclusive interview he has decided to keep what has been billed as Canada's most expensive condominium, valued at up to $20 million, at the Trump International Hotel & Tower for himself.

A work in progress, his mansion in the sky could be as large as 14,000 square feet, and will have, in some areas, soaring 9-metre ceilings.

"You can put an observatory up there. It's a great place to get away from the wife if we ever have a fight," joked Shnaider.

While New York billionaire Donald Trump is the brand, Shnaider, at 39 Canada's youngest billionaire, is the financial muscle behind the ultra-luxury project in the city's financial district.

The most expensive condo sold in the city so far is thought to be former Bank of Montreal CEO Tony Comper's One St. Thomas penthouse at $15 million.

Shnaider – whom Forbes says is the 557th richest man in the world with a net worth of $1.8 billion (U.S.) – will presumably give himself a respectable friends-and-family discount, but his is an expensive pied-à-terre. He is already building a magnificent new home in Toronto, less than half an hour away.

And it's not as if he's living in squalor now. His current 15,000-square-foot residence is a traditional stone mansion put together in 2000 by celebrity designer Katherine Newman. The property was listed for $10.9 million (Cdn.) two years ago when he was thinking of relocating to Russia, but it was taken off the market after he decided to keep his headquarters in Toronto.

The home is stunning, decorated in a traditional English manor style, but the security-conscious billionaire allowed the Star a rare glimpse of his residence only if its location not be revealed. In the garage is a gleaming silver $450,000 (U.S.) Mercedes SLR McLaren, barely 2,000 kilometres on the odometer.

A car nut, he most famously bought a Formula One team in 2005 for $50 million and sold it last year for $106.6 million.

Other toys include a 170-foot Benetti yacht, the Midlandia, (which sleeps 12 and rents for a mere $270,000 a week when he's not using it) and a private jet.

How did Shnaider get this rich?

His private company Midland Group, which he runs with London-based partner Eduard Shifrin (number 538 on the Forbes list at $1.9 billion) has diverse holdings, including steel mills in the Ukraine, the national power grid of Armenia, real estate, retail malls, and manufacturing in Russia and Siberia. The company has 34 offices and more than 50,000 employees and earnings in excess of $2 billion annually.

And Shnaider, it seems, is putting some of that money where his mouth is – at least with his $500 million (Cdn.) Toronto venture.

Rumours have persisted at the Trump site on Bay and Adelaide Sts. that sales were poor and the project was destined for failure.

Shnaider was taking a three-week break with his family on the Midlandia – he may have been in the waters of Turkey at the time, or it could have been Greece – when the call came that news had broken in the Toronto Star that his 70-storey Trump International Hotel & Tower was going to be downsized and eleven residential floors, including two hotel floors, lopped off.

"The hotel part of the sales was always doing well. Residential sales were a problem," says Shnaider.

"A lot of buyers were buying for themselves, usually people working on Bay St. and, because of the skepticism, when they didn't know a date they are quite reluctant. This is especially true for the larger, more expensive units because you have talk on the street that it won't be built."

But Shnaider said he expects construction to start in September. He also says 75 per cent of the building is sold. Over the past two and a half years, the developer says, approximately $275 million worth of property has been sold.

The original plans called for only four residential units per floor, but that had to be changed, he says.

"We needed to stimulate sales because the units were very big and expensive and they weren't selling as fast as we would have liked," he says candidly. "We ended up making this six units per floor to make it more affordable."

The higher density meant that something had to go, says Shnaider.

But even with 13 fewer storeys, the high ceiling heights in the building will still make it the tallest residential tower in the city, he says.

"We ended up with more units than we were allowed to have for engineering purposes. To provide the amount of service necessary, we couldn't do it with the higher density, we really had to make the building smaller," he says.

When the building was shortened, there was skepticism from some in the real estate community that the rationale was pure spin to explain falling sales.

In an earlier Star story, one of Shnaider's executives said one reason for the height reduction was "the more residents we had, the more elevators were going to be used, and that wasn't what we wanted in an exclusive building like Trump." (Four elevators are designated for residents for the 57 habitable floors, although the building may be two stories higher to allow for mechanical systems.)

What is known is that sales for the tower started in September 2004, three years before the proposed start of construction. In comparison, it took competitor Ritz Carlton 14 months to break ground.

But the buck stops with Shnaider, who is remarkably frank during the interview. He says he isn't sure why the $500 million project didn't sell as well as expected initially, although sales have been better since the smaller suites were introduced.

"We were certainly asking very high prices at the time. But we may have been too early for the market," he says, noting that the Four Seasons and the Shangri-La hotel brands now have condominiums selling in Toronto.

"We started at $700 a square foot, which was unheard of back then and now we're over a thousand a square foot. But I think the market has caught up."

His purchase of the penthouse, meanwhile, may prompt skepticism that Shnaider couldn't find a buyer for the pricey property. But he insists that he's buying because "it's a good investment."

One gets the sense that Shnaider would break ground if only as a point of pride – whether it made money or not. But the business person in him seems resolute: "If this were a loss-making venture, I wouldn't go ahead," he says.

Shnaider has shown he knows when to cut and run: He sold the Formula 1 Team in short order because he couldn't find a Russian sponsor. "We underestimated the interest of Russian companies, thinking they would embrace it more than they did," he says.

And, despite the prominence of the Trump project, it is only one small part of his diverse holdings.

Over the past two months, for example, he has rolled out a new convenience store chain in the Ukraine, tapping the need for modern community-based retail. He plans to open 1,500 stores in the next several years.

But the Trump project is the most visible part of his empire, especially since it's in his backyard.

"I wanted to build something important in the city, something I could be proud of," he says.

By the time Shnaider bought the site, the Trump Tower was already steeped in controversy. "I knew from the beginning this wouldn't be an easy project," he says.

The site was initially supposed to have been a Ritz Carlton hotel and condominium, with Donald Trump as a partner, when it was first announced in 2001.

That soon fizzled after the Star revealed one of the original partners had been convicted of bankruptcy fraud and embezzlement in the United States and had fled to Canada. The Ritz Carlton backed out, eventually finding a new site years later at Simcoe and Wellington Sts.

Meanwhile, the original location was sold to Shnaider and his development company. Trump remained as a partner and his brand was put on the hotel – the flamboyant developer's first venture at the time outside the United States.

It seemed like an ideal match: Two billionaires who exemplified the high life would be creating one of the world's tallest and most luxurious residencies in Toronto.

In many ways the building symbolized the loftiness of Shnaider's ambition. To say his rise was meteoric seems almost like an understatement, since he formed the holding company Midland Resources only in 1994 at the age of 26.

Born in St. Petersburg, Shnaider moved to North York when he was 13. His parents, an engineer and a dentist, ended up buying a deli.

Shnaider went to William Lyon Mackenzie C.I. while helping his parents in the deli. He later studied economics at York University.

With help from his politically connected future father-in-law, Shnaider ended up in the steel business, eventually setting up his own steel trading shop in Russia. One of his big customers was the Zaporizhstal plant in eastern Ukraine, one of the country's largest steel producers. With privatization in the '90s, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Shnaider and his partner Shifrin, an academic with a PhD in metallurgical engineering, formed Midland. They eventually bought the Zaporizhstal plant.

From there, they built a substantial collection of assets throughout Eastern Europe.

The steel plant acquisition was perfect timing, as prices for the material started to jump with the economic rise of India and China. Now the industry is in major consolidation, with steel mills fetching hefty premiums. Asked whether he would sell, Shnaider says with a smile, "Everything is for sale. ... But we are concentrating on other areas such as retail and real estate."

It continues to be a sore point with the self-made billionaire, however, that a negative stigma seems to surround successful Russians.

He wrote a letter to Forbes after a mostly laudatory profile of him in 2005 that referred to the "murky" world of Russian business.

"There is this stereotype that was especially strong during the '90s that every Russian who is successful or made money must have done so through connections with the mafia, or arms dealing or prostitution, which I find really offensive," he says. "But Russians are incredibly educated people who are fast learners and willing to work hard. That is the stereotype you don't hear about as much."

Time is precious for Shnaider, who travels constantly, including an appointment in New York this day. He glances at his oversized watch, a $150,000 Audemars Piguet Royal Oak tourbillion. After saying goodbye to his guests, he slips into a jacket by Neapolitan tailor Attolini.

Then it's into the sports car and a brisk drive to his waiting jet.

Give me a BREAK! Steel magnate, right! I think we all know what this guy really does for a living. And the fact that he pathetically tries to rescue his failed condo tower is further evidence of his lack of business acumen. That project failed as a profitable real estate development years ago. He's shamefully trying to save face but acting as a bona fide purchaser in order to stir up some interest in it only to dump it back on the market at half the price (which is fair market price) if the ridiculous building ever gets completed.

Surely the TO Star cannot believe that the good folks of Toronto are that naive to buy into this bullsh*t?

The building starts next months. I think the Mods the consider banning trouble makers on this forum.

Uh....yea...I think we could safely say that....thanks for that enlightening tidbit.






Yes...I read it. You should not just read it, but try and "understand" it, and within the context of other points made in the topic.

Both projects need to be financed before construction can begin. And it isn't "easier" to finance something that isn't already 80% sold...it's harder.

When you are Ritz/Graywood, with Cadillac Fairview backing you up, you can just roll into the Royal Bank and get financing. If you are Talon, you can't...even if you rent the Trump name. It's like Stinson and his similar "5-star" hotel scheme...you can pre-sell them, and you STILL can't get local banks to touch you....you have to get creative with the financing. Or in other words, you take forever to do it. It has to do with risk.

And risk is not just something banks look at...so do condo purchasers...which is why it has taken so long to sell the condos. If you are shopping around Toronto for a brand new swanky luxo condo, and you take a look at One St Thomas, 100 Yorkville, The Regency, The Hazelton, 77 Charles, 155 Cumberland, The St. Thomas, Museum House (all projects without "names" attached to them), and then Trump...whcih one do you think will appeal to most people?

Then look around at really big high-end hotel/condo projects like Ritz, Four Seasons, Shangri-la...and then trump. Which have the most cashe? I think the market has spoken.






Well, obviously you just don't understand the hierarchy of Toronto "locations". I wouldn't say it "sucks"...it just doesn't compare with other locations.





The location isn't the only issue...it's not a "5-star" location, that's for sure.

But there are other factors as well...the Trump name has too much of a cheeze factor for many....the developer does not have a track record for this kind of development....it's a condo hotel suite scheme, which doesn't conform to the "usual" 5-star hotel idea that a tried-and-true, established name owns and manages their hotels. This looks, acts and smells too much like a "Harry Stinson" type of project. And the longer it takes to get a shovel in the ground, the more doubt and negativity it attracts.




KGB


After perusing this forum, I conclude that KGB is by far the most intelligent and informed voice in the crowd. His posts regarding the inferior attributes of this project are spot on. I would merely add that were it not for the money laundering pursuits of the developer this property would likely have remained a parking lot for the foreseeable future. I am suspicious of any news emanating from that office and would not believe that the tower is actually going to be constructed until I actually see the foundation being dug. Even then I won't be convinced that he has the financial muscle to complete the project given the fact that it most certainly will be a money losing venture. If completed, it will be done merely to salvage the reputation of the developer and for no other reason.

The building starts next months. I think the Mods the consider banning trouble makers on this forum.

Trouble makers? Easy up Robin155? Just stating an informed opinion man! I'm in the industry myself. I know many of the players. It's all smoke & mirrors here.

After perusing this forum, I conclude that KGB is by far the most intelligent and informed voice in the crowd. His posts regarding the inferior attributes of this project are spot on. I would merely add that were it not for the money laundering pursuits of the developer this property would likely have remained a parking lot for the foreseeable future. I am suspicious of any news emanating from that office and would not believe that the tower is actually going to be constructed until I actually see the foundation being dug. Even then I won't be convinced that he has the financial muscle to complete the project given the fact that it most certainly will be a money losing venture. If completed, it will be done merely to salvage the reputation of the developer and for no other reason.

How is it a money loosing venture? This project has sold about 300 million worth of HIGH END units! It will be the tallest rediential building in the country, what else can you ask for? The building starts in about 3 weeks, if anything I would say this is a success! Yes the tower had a few slow sales but you have to remember the units in this tower are not cheap! They are extremely expensive and not just that but Trump was also selling condo-hotel units which the other 5 star brands were not, and you must consider that location was also a factor. And for the developer buying the penthouuse maybe he really wanted it, maybe he wanted the fabulous view, maybe he wanted to be known as the guy who owns the most condo penthouse in Canada!

Let's stop speculating as to whether or not it'll get built until the supposed start date, and then once they start, we can speculate whether it'll end up like another Bay-Adelaide Centre stump.

Trouble makers? Easy up Robin155? Just stating an informed opinion man! I'm in the industry myself. I know many of the players. It's all smoke & mirrors here.

Informed opinion? I'm not sure you know what the word informed means. You sound like a blow-hard.

Just stating an informed opinion man!

um...vultur...your name says a lot....I am in the industry too....and what you are saying is complete horseshit...

/don't feed the troll, folks...

It's a collosal failure due to the huge delays. Land costs were enormous, interest-rate ticking, early pre-sales are lower prices, still lots of unsold product.

Some of you may not comprehend this but the condo development business operates on fairly slim margins- probably under 15%. You have to be pro builder to make the numbers fly. If you can't get a project underway after a couple years its an automatic failure and developers will only continue to salvage equity or maintain reputation. When you fix your revenue years in advance and deal with a moving target of construction costs you better pray that nothing delays you. The people who bought earlier are probably getting in at below cost prices at this stage, if it gets built. I can't even begin to fathom how the hotel would get financing. It's not exactly a reputable flag waving there, particularly in Canada where no projects bearing this clown's name have been completed.

The only way this gets built is if the developer decides to inject enormous equity into it and spec out the remaining product and hope that the hotel can generate a high enough ADR to finance out and maybe time the market right on the remaining inventory (including the penthouse I'm sure). He might get lucky if the high end market holds up (after the credit crunch damage) he could possibly break even. The success of the hotel appears near impossible given the weak hospitality market in Toronto and the giant stream of new high-end hotel product coming on stream in 09-10-11 by reputable hotel operators. Frankly I can't see how they are going to make any money but at least they have deep pockets to wait out a recovery.

um...vultur...your name says a lot....I am in the industry too....and what you are saying is complete horseshit...

/don't feed the troll, folks...

really yzer? You actually think this project is going to make money even with the huge delays and the reconfiguration of the site? I hope you are not so callous with your own funds!

Btw, the vultur starts preying after the credit crunch. By the end of 2007 there will be 1,000s of distressed properties on the market at every end of the price spectrum. This project is way too much of a mess to salvage. Someone will have to hold it as a parking revenue and then start over during the next cycle hopefully as an office building, the natural use of the property.

After perusing this forum, I conclude that KGB is by far the most intelligent and informed voice in the crowd. His posts regarding the inferior attributes of this project are spot on.

I think you just established your own credibility with this statement. At least we can salvage some entertainment value in your posts.

P.S. Sept 18th is locked in for the construction start with Donald and his kids. They will be in Toronto for the ceremony. Maybe we will get lucky and vultur will stop posting when that occurs.

^^

w/e we will see what happens.

someone involved in realestate buisness who would have that kind of inside information, would probably not really be that persistent in trying to convince..."kids.. that the ship has sunk", I believe that was the wording.

I think you just established your own credibility with this statement. At least we can salvage some entertainment value in your posts.


well you're credibility is all but lost consdering A: you bought into this project and B: Trump being more than just some privilege child thrown into an industry in which he has no weight outside of his celebrity niche

Some of you may not comprehend this but the condo development business operates on fairly slim margins- probably under 15%. You have to be pro builder to make the numbers fly. If you can't get a project underway after a couple years its an automatic failure and developers will only continue to salvage equity or maintain reputation. When you fix your revenue years in advance and deal with a moving target of construction costs you better pray that nothing delays you. The people who bought earlier are probably getting in at below cost prices at this stage, if it gets built. I can't even begin to fathom how the hotel would get financing. It's not exactly a reputable flag waving there, particularly in Canada where no projects bearing this clown's name have been completed.

The only way this gets built is if the developer decides to inject enormous equity into it and spec out the remaining product and hope that the hotel can generate a high enough ADR to finance out and maybe time the market right on the remaining inventory (including the penthouse I'm sure). He might get lucky if the high end market holds up (after the credit crunch damage) he could possibly break even. The success of the hotel appears near impossible given the weak hospitality market in Toronto and the giant stream of new high-end hotel product coming on stream in 09-10-11 by reputable hotel operators. Frankly I can't see how they are going to make any money but at least they have deep pockets to wait out a recovery.

enjoy ... have fun as the effort will only be greeted with deaf ears

it will go ahead at a loss for the eactly reasons you mention and, for that reason, I wouldn't expect another commercial real estate venture from Talon in Toronto anytime soon. He buying the penthouse shows his resolve and I highly doubt this was one of those situations where an up and coming developer builds around their dream penthouse

I wouldn't expect another commercial real estate venture from Talon in Toronto anytime soon.

Don't blame the city for the developer's mistakes.

well you're credibility is all but lost consdering A: you bought into this project and B: Trump being more than just some privilege child thrown into an industry in which he has no weight outside of his celebrity niche

No Credibility? My investment is up 5X since I purchased so if that deserves criticism, go for it. My "no credibility" is also providing this thread the only up to date info instead of the nonsense you provide.

He buying the penthouse shows his resolve and I highly doubt this was one of those situations where an up and coming developer builds around their dream penthouse

Sorry to dissapoint your completely negative perspective but the penthouse was never offered on the market. He has held on to the penthouse from the beginning as many developers often do. Ie: Donald Trump

No Credibility? My investment is up 5X since I purchased so if that deserves criticism, go for it. My "no credibility" is also providing this thread the only up to date info instead of the nonsense you provide.

so your $20,000 deposit is theoretically worth $100,000 on paper, on current sales price comps, once the building is completed in 2011, assuming it actually gets completed and there's no market correction by then and assuming 0% commission/closing costs on your resale.

Such a small-timer mentality. Bragging about your illiquid 5-bagger that you'll have to hold for 4 years before realizing. If you can actually cash in that paper project today you are better off accepting 2x then gambling that there will be something left of it in the future.

Report back when you've made an honest 50% return in the bank on some real money and I'll be impressed.

so your $20,000 deposit is theoretically worth $100,000 on paper, on current sales price comps, once the building is completed in 2011, assuming it actually gets completed and there's no market correction by then and assuming 0% commission/closing costs on your resale.

Such a small-timer mentality. Bragging about your illiquid 5-bagger that you'll have to hold for 4 years before realizing. If you can actually cash in that paper project today you are better off accepting 2x then gambling that there will be something left of it in the future.

Report back when you've made an honest 50% return in the bank on some real money and I'll be impressed.

$20,000 deposit??? You are really clueless if you think that is the deposit amount on Trump property. Let me correct all your other mistakes. Building completion is 2010, not 2011. I can sell it in early 2009 to lock in profits. Who cares what the commission is when the investment is up 5X, last time I checked commissions are about 6%. (I really don't think that is going to ruin my return). Besides, sales prices will continue to go up, not down as construction starts. Why don't you report back when you have a clue about what you're talking about.

P.S. Does anybody else think vultur is really KGB?

it will go ahead at a loss for the eactly reasons you mention and, for that reason, I wouldn't expect another commercial real estate venture from Talon in Toronto anytime soon.

Give me one example of a developer building something knowing upfront that he was going to lose money?

This developer was very smart in how he has marketed this property that I don't think people understand. They have done a controlled release of the inventory to ensure that early purchasers who bought in at low prices would not buy out the building. You are going to see a very careful release of the rest of the inventory once construction starts next month. If they can make that inventory last until near building completion, they will do it so as to maximize the prices for the remaining inventory.

After perusing this forum, I conclude that KGB is by far the most intelligent and informed voice in the crowd. His posts regarding the inferior attributes of this project are spot on. I would merely add that were it not for the money laundering pursuits of the developer this property would likely have remained a parking lot for the foreseeable future. I am suspicious of any news emanating from that office and would not believe that the tower is actually going to be constructed until I actually see the foundation being dug. Even then I won't be convinced that he has the financial muscle to complete the project given the fact that it most certainly will be a money losing venture. If completed, it will be done merely to salvage the reputation of the developer and for no other reason.

I agree that KGB is a very intelligent forumer, and shouldn't be brushed off so easily. However the issue is done, don't start this again.

wow people on this forums are really irrogant! Especially this new Vultur person yes you have an opinion but to come on this forum with all this negativity and especially being so rude to "Intheknow" after he gave us all this information! Since you came on this forum all you been saying is negative things, also when reading your posts it like you actually WANT the toronto real estate market to collapse! All i have to say is I'm glad this project is going to start and I'm glad "Intheknow" is here giving us all this inside information! This project is going to start in about 3 weeks so lets just be happy Toronto will add a new 900 footer to its skyline!

P.S. Does anybody else think vultur is really KGB?

Just call me Sherlock. I read a few of KGB's posts, and compared grammatical 'styles'. I don't think they are the same person.

Vultur's prose is less dignified, angrier, with more spelling and grammatical errors. Vultur is clearly a bully; I didn't see that in any of the few KGB postings I read. Vultur's style is also lazier ... for example he will often not capitalize the first letter of a sentence whereas KGB always does.

The clincher was the different way they used the ellipsis ... the three dots (...) I just typed. KGB doesn't space his...like so...whereas Vultur uses the hyphen sign-like so-hence I'd say with about 97.4% certainty, they are not the same person.

You're welcome :)

Btw, the vultur starts preying after the credit crunch.

BTW, it's vulture, not vultur.

BTW, it's vulture, not vultur.

I've got more at stake in the TO real estate market than anyone else there, I assure you. Keep your small-time paper gains buddy- I suspect they will be as worthless as Bre-X shares when all is said and done.


If any of you are under the illusion that every built project is profitable then you have really no idea how this business functions.

I'm impressed that such a high powered big roller as yourself has the time to
waste on an all ages amateur "skyscraper" forum. Quaint, that...

I've got more at stake in the TO real estate market than anyone else there, I assure you. Keep your small-time paper gains buddy- I suspect they will be as worthless as Bre-X shares when all is said and done.


If any of you are under the illusion that every built project is profitable then you have really no idea how this business functions.

I'm not sure you know how the quote button functions.

I've got more at stake in the TO real estate market than anyone else there, I assure you. Keep your small-time paper gains buddy- I suspect they will be as worthless as Bre-X shares when all is said and done.


Let me be the first on this forum to thank you for the precious time you are taking out of your illustrious tycoon life to enlighten us all on real estate. Your insight and wisdom is a welcome addition and I am excited to be able to learn from the professional that you are.

Well we know a mortgage rate hike would hurt condo sales but i think it would really devastate people with the 250k mortgages who bought a brand new home for 400k in Brampton a lot more.

actually i would be more concerned about people in Brampton that have just come fresh into this country and bought 400k homes and the massive mortgages they have on them. My father lived in an apartment from 1981-1987 till he got a small 1700 sq foot home and now some people come here straight and buy a dream home that is 3000 sq foot. I am from the Indian community and i have seen this first hand and i think its quite worrying really if there is a sudden mortgage rate hike...

If the US situation occurs it would be disaster especially in the newer burbs.

"small 1700 sq foot"

1700sqft is small? O.o I have 1600 and barely know what to do with all the space. :P

lol its small in Brampton.... You have to get a townhouse or condo to get a home below 1900 sq feet.

I actually loved that older smaller house then the new 3200 sq foot house now... It's more open but it feels empty in side.

The smaller home was more cozy and it wasn't as empty. I dislike huge big empty places in homes. I have been to some peoples new homes in the suburbs who have like 2 children who have a 4-5 bedroom house. Two bedrooms are actually being used and the other three either just have only have a mattress on the floor or have nothing at all.

Whats the point of buying a huge house if its empty in the inside...

Let me be the first on this forum to thank you for the precious time you are taking out of your illustrious tycoon life to enlighten us all on real estate. Your insight and wisdom is a welcome addition and I am excited to be able to learn from the professional that you are.


hehehe...a real gemma in the necklace :lol:

I've got more at stake in the TO real estate market than anyone else there, I assure you.

Anyone care to take a guess at this person's identity. He mentions that he has more at stake than anyone there which suggests that he is from out of town so that eliminates such people as the Reichmans or someone from the family that owns the Tridel company. I'm stumped (bad choice of words maybe). Anyone else have a guess?

I'm convinced he is Donald Trump. Reminds me a lot of another tycoon that used to be on here: "landlord"... one of the wealthiest men in Canada (apparently) who took time (a lot) out of each and every day to haggle with 15 year olds on the internet.
It's that "common touch" that endears the guy to you.... he may be a mover and a shaker, but he is never too busy for us. Humbling.....

vultur, couple words of advice.

take a hike.

I'm convinced he is Donald Trump. Reminds me a lot of another tycoon that used to be on here: "landlord"... one of the wealthiest men in Canada (apparently) who took time (a lot) out of each and every day to haggle with 15 year olds on the internet.
It's that "common touch" that endears the guy to you.... he may be a mover and a shaker, but he is never too busy for us. Humbling.....


You guys crack me up. Do you honestly believe that we don't monitor the chatter on internet forums?

Nobody operates in a vacuum. Do think we just go out and buy expensive feasibility studies from Clayton Research and take every word at face value without looking around finding out what people are saying? Every heard of the concept of mystery shopping? True, my tone is rather harsh, but some of you guys have no idea what's going on in the market and I suppose I initially found that frustrating. I'm over it now and apologize for the attack.

As the credit turmoil has shown us this month, markets are subject to wild fluctuations in an instant and to stay in touch with the market (and therefore be able to identify distress-related opportunities) requires more than living up in an ivory tower in isolation.

The big US players exited the condo market in 2006 as they realized the end of the building boom was approaching. Canadian markets have been influenced by similar speculative investor-syndicate demand factors. Most Canadian markets are less prone to this kind of activity, but certainly Toronto has its pockets of projects appealing almost exclusively to the foreign buyer.

The first projects to suffer are the poorly planned, ill-conceived ones such at this one. A high-end residential project in the Financial District? That would have a tough time working in Manhattan, forget Toronto. Trump Organization didn't do their due diligence on the market and the developer did it for ego.

Get over it guys. My last post on this topic. Focus your mud slinging vitriolic rants at another target.

500 Million Dollar Development - 350 Million Dollar Cost of Construction = 150 Million Dollars - 30 Million Land Cost = 120 Million Dollars.

Did you miss something in math class vultur?

Oh yeah, and 295 Million Dollars of Real estate sold, so now the developer is on the hook for the remaining 55 Million Dollars. Which by the time construction is complete should be a mute point.

Last month recorded another year over year increase in home sales in the Toronto market. While we are not immune to the volitilty of the world finincial markets, the economy here is on more solid footing than the real estate market in the US. I don't understand why you believe one project (Trump) is a failure when 4 other projects of the same type are underway in Toronto at the same time with a total value of nearly 2 Billion Dollars. Are all their accountants and sales analyst fucking idoits?; I doubt it. Did they project or forcast that during the 3 to 4 year development time frame there could be instability in the high end market?; probably. And even with all those binders of market reports and sales analysis studies they still decided to move forward with their projects worth billions of dollars.

I'm convinced that vultur is a wannabe who has memorized a bunch of impressive words he doesn't understand so he can impress us all with his insider knowledge. The thing about these forums is that you can't easily get away with such fakery because you never know just how educated some of your fellow forumers are.

Question: if vultur is such an expert, why does he know less about the Toronto market and condo developments in general than almost everyone here? Hmmm.

A general comment on the state of affairs in this forum:

I find it odd that rather then trying to attract industry insiders to the forum that typical conversations reduce themselves to mudslinging and it becomes painfully obvious that the average age of forumers is low and understanding of real estate issues is rather low as well. It doesn't help when some posts admit the forum is populated by teenage skyscraper geeks who are clearly hostile to new posters that know a thing or two about the development industry.

I would think that given just about all of you are skyscraper/development fans that you would want to attract those 'in the know' like some other Toronto development forums rather then rudely showing them the door.

A range of opinions can be discussed about any project from amateurs or insiders like vulture and intheknow - but I'm surprised how much push-back there is displayed from people that generally have no sources of info except this forum (wouldn't they want new sources that are well connected).

With respect to Trump, I'm involved in the industry and see a lot of data and this has always been a shaky project (although things have really picked up the last few months since financing was announced) - as mentioned, just because it may get built doesn't mean success and long timelines increase risk - the price of copper and concrete alone has skyrocketed in the last year - purchase prices from a couple years ago don't reflect new construction realities. I don't think anyone out there is congratulating Harry Stinson on his wonderful success with One King West. That said I do think it is an attractive development that will enhance downtown when constructed and I hope that it is successful.

Trouble makers? Easy up Robin155? Just stating an informed opinion man! I'm in the industry myself. I know many of the players. It's all smoke & mirrors here.

Smoke & Mirrors? What in the world are you talking about? You sound like KGB in disquise. I've worked with one particular partner at Talon for over 10 years, and he's certainly not built any of his businesses on smoke & mirrors--but with a lot of hard work, dedication and the vision to keep moving forward despite naysayers and disbelievers like yourself. No risk, no rewards my friend.

Give me a BREAK! Steel magnate, right! I think we all know what this guy really does for a living. And the fact that he pathetically tries to rescue his failed condo tower is further evidence of his lack of business acumen. That project failed as a profitable real estate development years ago.Please, tell me... since you seem to know... what exactly does Mr. Shnaider do for a living?

I don't know... a billionaire under 40... I think he's done quite well for himself. I have enormous respect for the man.

Rescue a failed a condo tower? I'm sorry... nearly $300-million in sales in less than 3 years is a failure? It's people like you that give me so much gratification. It's the same story we've heard all along... yet day-by-day, month-by-month, we keep selling suites. And now the shovels are getting ready to hit the ground!

Despite all of the negativity that folks like yourself have tried to hurl at us these past 3 years, we've sold nearly $300-million in luxury real estate in a location deemed "unsaleable" by Toronto real estate "experts," we've secured financing, we're starting construction in the next month and are looking forward to seeing a building completed in 2010. In any other city, that would be called a success.

Double Post

A general comment on the state of affairs in this forum:

I find it odd that rather then trying to attract industry insiders to the forum that typical conversations reduce themselves to mudslinging and it becomes painfully obvious that the average age of forumers is low and understanding of real estate issues is rather low as well. It doesn't help when some posts admit the forum is populated by teenage skyscraper geeks who are clearly hostile to new posters that know a thing or two about the development industry.

I would think that given just about all of you are skyscraper/development fans that you would want to attract those 'in the know' like some other Toronto development forums rather then rudely showing them the door.

A range of opinions can be discussed about any project from amateurs or insiders like vulture and intheknow - but I'm surprised how much push-back there is displayed from people that generally have no sources of info except this forum (wouldn't they want new sources that are well connected).

vultur, came showed no respect for the forumers and left.

good riddance.



With respect to Trump, I'm involved in the industry and see a lot of data and this has always been a shaky project (although things have really picked up the last few months since financing was announced) - as mentioned, just because it may get built doesn't mean success and long timelines increase risk - the price of copper and concrete alone has skyrocketed in the last year - purchase prices from a couple years ago don't reflect new construction realities. I don't think anyone out there is congratulating Harry Stinson on his wonderful success with One King West. That said I do think it is an attractive development that will enhance downtown when constructed and I hope that it is successful.

The information from the last new release (at the time financing was announced) from the Trump people stated a construction cost of $350 Million Dollars. So unless things have changed in the concrete commodities market that greatly in the past 2 months, agian i don't see need to worry. As for determining the sucess of the building, you need look no further than down the street where Shangri La will be taking shape at almost the same time as Trump. If Trump didn't pave the way for the other 5 stars to jump into the Toronto market, would they have even made offerings available here, or stiffed us (Toronto) as usual? The Talon-Trump group made the bet on Toronto and its a bet that will likely payoff not only for their hotel, but for the investors in the hotel suites and residences. They (Talon-Trump) will have the ultimate success of having the tallest residential building in Canada, and likely the most expensive quasi-residential-commerical building in the country as well, in addition to a true Toronto landmark. So all in all, not a bad days ( or 2.5 years) work.

I would think that given just about all of you are skyscraper/development fans that you would want to attract those 'in the know' like some other Toronto development forums rather then rudely showing them the door.



I think you're missing the point some of us are trying to make. He knows not.

Excellent point Waterloo Guy. see below

more words of wisdom from vultur.

Give me a BREAK! Steel magnate, right! I think we all know what this guy really does for a living. And the fact that he pathetically tries to rescue his failed condo tower is further evidence of his lack of business acumen. That project failed as a profitable real estate development years ago. He's shamefully trying to save face but acting as a bona fide purchaser in order to stir up some interest in it only to dump it back on the market at half the price (which is fair market price) if the ridiculous building ever gets completed.


lack of business acumen? That's how he amassed 2.5 Billion dollars right?

- He( Schanider) never put the penthouse unit on the market. Did Donald Trump sell his penthouse condo when Trump Tower was completed?

i imagine vultur has been here before under a different name, and I disbelieve him when he says he has made his final entry on the matter.
What ever happened to "realestatejunkie"?

The first projects to suffer are the poorly planned, ill-conceived ones such at this one. A high-end residential project in the Financial District? That would have a tough time working in Manhattan, forget Toronto. Trump Organization didn't do their due diligence on the market and the developer did it for ego..


I tend to agree that the location absolutly sucks, however it takes just one to take some risk and create a following. Harry no, maybe Trump.

If you do know Donald Trump, could you please tell him to stop being a misogynistic jackass, and to get some architectural taste? Thank you.

I think you're missing the point some of us are trying to make. He knows not.

Waterloo_guy, I understand the point some of you guys were trying to make with him (Vultur) specifically - it was more of a general point/ramble that newbie's with info on various projects often get jumped on by established members here rather then being welcomed.... although it doesn't help some newbies much when thier initial posts come across as rude and agnorant... if everyone could play nice the forum would be a bit better - but that's just my opinion.

Caltrane,

Well in some ways trumps may have "paved the way" for others - I honestly think projects like Shangri La have emerged anyway due to the overall strength of the condo market and the Toronto economy in general. There is a lot of wealth in this city and international investment. The Trump team obviously saw that a few years ago before the market really took off and they took more of a risk when they first opened, but the Ritz did want in Toronto prior to the current Trump project being launched (their first project fell apart and the Trump team revived it under the new brand) and the Shangri La would have come anyway - especially when you consider it is a Canadian team behind the project - which is always a good thing in my opinion.

Maybe if vultur had come in with some solid information and less attitude, he might have been taken more seriously, Mike.

^agreed!

edit-- can't read

double post

Despite all of the negativity that folks like yourself have tried to hurl at us these past 3 years, we've sold nearly $300-million in luxury real estate...

Classic salesman speak. In my world SOLD equates to money in the bank. All you've supposedly done (can't imagine that your sales data has been audited or even verified by anyone but yourself) is generate some deposit revenue for a project that may never materialize.

You chose the wrong franchise for this development. Credibility is key in a regional market like Toronto. You can move dirt around for months if you want but the industry knows this project is a colossal failure.

Maybe if vultur had come in with some solid information and less attitude, he might have been taken more seriously, Mike.

I think we are all on the same page here...

vultur promises to host a martini smooze if trump breaks ground (as opposed to "wind").

Like anybody on this board, vultur is only expressing his opinion. I always find it amazing that when the majority is against you, your posts are considered negative, or filled with attitude. I am not necessarily agreeing with him, but everyone is entitled to his or her opinions..

p5

I'm glad for the post that p5archit has made above. Dispite vultur's unpopular presence, and disposition, he is not completely wrong in many of his points underlying. I think we're all jest a littlebit blinded by our hopes towards the success of this building. However, I do not believe that vultur is a large stake holder in the Toronto center highraise realestate sector.

Classic salesman speak. In my world SOLD equates to money in the bank. All you've supposedly done (can't imagine that your sales data has been audited or even verified by anyone but yourself) is generate some deposit revenue for a project that may never materialize.

You chose the wrong franchise for this development. Credibility is key in a regional market like Toronto. You can move dirt around for months if you want but the industry knows this project is a colossal failure.

What's with the attitude? I shouldn't even repond to this because it's the same broken record of discontent we've faced for three years now--from so called "industry experts." It's getting old. No matter what we do. No matter the results we achieve. You will continue to be hostile and negative. And you'll probably still be saying the same things even after the building is topped off and the last joyful tenant moves in.

"... a colossal failure" huh? Oh yes. Based solely on nothing but unsubstantiated cynical rumours. The pessimism is unbelievable. We heard that BS before we even opened for sales in September 2004.

Yet... in that time we've sold over 70% of the building (nearly $300-million of real estate) to buyers from over 20 countries world-wide at a premium price point, secured financing and are getting ready to build a 925 ft. high building. I'll take our so-called "failure" any day. Thanks.

Our reporting "SOLD" means binding/firm purchase and sale agreements with buyers. That is no different than any other development in this city or any other. And as long as we deliver a finished product within the schedule specified, it's a done deal. Same as any other development.

And of course our sales data has not been audited by an outside source--we're a private company. It's our choice to disclose our sales figures if we choose (I have the inventory/sales sheet open in front of me, so I know exactly what has been sold). But obviously, we had to disclose factual numbers in order to secure construction financing. So why the disbelief?

And about the location. It is a fantastic location for luxury business traveler hotel. It is in the heart of where business is conducted in Toronto. For a business traveler like myself, I couldn't imagine a better location. I can walk to meetings if I need to. And this is exactly why our hotel condominiums sold so well, and to so many professionals who travel to Toronto for business.

Is it the absolute perfect location for residences? Maybe. Maybe not. It all depends what is important to you. If you value privacy and discretion? Absolutely. It's close to everything downtown, but just enough removed for quiet, peaceful evenings.

The key is to not picture what you see there now... but what that corner will be like in the future. Between Trump and the Bay-Adelaide centre going up across the street, it will greatly enhance the area. You have to have a little vision. Think about the Spadina area on the west end of downtown. The Harbourfront area. Waterpark City? City Place? Could you have ever imagined living there a few years ago? And now look at the area. It's amazing how much it has changed.

I thought vultur gave up on hanging out with us.

oh well.

I always find it amazing that when the majority is against you, your posts are considered negative, or filled with attitude.

p5

Everyone has opinions... they are a dime a dozen. It is not his opinion that was objectionable, but his
attitude. Is it really necessary to throw that much attitude with guns blazing when you enter a forum?

I'm glad for the post that p5archit has made above. Dispite vultur's unpopular presence, and disposition, he is not completely wrong in many of his points underlying. I think we're all jest a littlebit blinded by our hopes towards the success of this building. However, I do not believe that vultur is a large stake holder in the Toronto center highraise realestate sector.



One word says it all.

The only thing that will finally shut up the doubters, here and elsewhere, is when the shovels finally hit the ground. From what we have been told, there are only about 3 weeks to wait. That should be a red letter day.

What I find obnoxious about vultur, is his extreme negativity, and his irresponsible statements, such as 'most of these projects will not get built', 'there will be 1000s of units unsold in the credit crunch', 'Schnaider is really just laundering money, it is all smoke and mirrors' etc, etc.

These are not the responsible statements of a mature 'insider'.....they are are irresponsible rantings of a clown. In my world, respect is earned, and the way I see it, vultur has failed to do so, and he has in fact done just the opposite.

Not everyone on this board is a 15 year old skyscraper geek - there are other industry professionals here too, and what he is saying is unproven, irrational, and just simply wrong.

There is every reason to believe we are getting near the end of an eleven year cycle in the local real estate industry, and things may indeed cool off for a year or two. (note the absence of new openings the last few months - no builder wants to get stuck with unsold inventory). But to suggest that we are about to have a market crash, with blood in the streets, is complete nonsense.

The only thing that will finally shut up the doubters, here and elsewhere, is when the shovels finally hit the ground. From what we have been told, there are only about 3 weeks to wait. That should be a red letter day.

What I find obnoxious about vultur, is his extreme negativity, and his irresponsible statements, such as 'most of these projects will not get built', 'there will be 1000s of units unsold in the credit crunch', 'Schnaider is really just laundering money, it is all smoke and mirrors' etc, etc.

These are not the responsible statements of a mature 'insider'.....they are are irresponsible rantings of a clown. In my world, respect is earned, and the way I see it, vultur has failed to do so, and he has in fact done just the opposite.

Not everyone on this board is a 15 year old skyscraper geek - there are other industry professionals here too, and what he is saying is unproven, irrational, and just simply wrong.

There is every reason to believe we are getting near the end of an eleven year cycle in the local real estate industry, and things may indeed cool off for a year or two. (note the absence of new openings the last few months - no builder wants to get stuck with unsold inventory). But to suggest that we are about to have a market crash, with blood in the streets, is complete nonsense.

well said.

I tend to agree that the location absolutly sucks, however it takes just one to take some risk and create a following. Harry no, maybe Trump.

trumptoronto, i'm saying this after 13 years of living in Toronto- your company ultimately should have chosen a Yorkville location for this project. Specifically near Yonge/Bay and Bloor where international professionals who purchase your hotel condominiums would literally be steps from the Subway- about a 10 minute commute to the financial district (and remember the TTC will probably be upgraded in the future) At the same time however, the residences would have inevitably sold faster if the project were located in Yorkville since the majority of their buyers would be pernamnent Toronto residents downsizing (i.e selling their mansion in Forest Hill) and thus would want to be near the world class shopping they're used to (not hemmed in between B.A and Scotia Plaza)
I suggest if you can let Donald know about my opinion, please do- for the good of your own company... I believe the residences are some of the most beautifully finished looking highrise properties in the city that are so unique and representative of Toronto in my opinion (only Ritz Carlton can compare in its finishes) and its a shame so many potential buyers have overlooked it for one sillymistake. No, not hatred of Donald himself like many forumers have been so immature to suggest but...location, location.

anyhow.... it's going up.

I think the location's great. A lot of the patrons of the hotel will want to be in the financial district, not a subway ride away from it. Plus, the Trump Toronto is right next to King subway station.

The only thing that will finally shut up the doubters, here and elsewhere, is when the shovels finally hit the ground.


I'm guessing a nuclear explosion is the only thing that shuts up the doubters. Should be an interesting ride over the next 26 months of building Trump Toronto and what the naysayers will come up with next.

trumptoronto, i'm saying this after 13 years of living in Toronto- your company ultimately should have chosen a Yorkville location for this project. Specifically near Yonge/Bay and Bloor where international professionals who purchase your hotel condominiums would literally be steps from the Subway-

........its a shame so many potential buyers have overlooked it for one sillymistake. No, not hatred of Donald himself like many forumers have been so immature to suggest but...location, location.



There are people on this forum that seem to only be able to look at this project from their own personal perspective while not understanding there are other motivations for buying in this market. If you travel to Toronto for business in the financial district and want a hotel or temporary residence, many people want to be "right there" and not a short subway ride away. (If you have that kind of dough for one of these hotel/residences, most would not ride the subway anyway.) The market niche for this project is the executive business traveler or local business executive who wants a place downtown right next door to where they work while they keep a primary residence in the suburbs.

The Ritz, and Four Seasons have their own niche and are perfect fits for the person who must have the "best view" or possibly shopping next door. Thankfully, there are choices to fit everyone in Toronto and hopefully you have noticed, trumptoronto and I have never trashed the other great properties being built in the Toronto area. I picked Trump over the others for the business reasons I just mentioned. So for me and many others, this made TTT the right location, location, location........

Your not being serious, are you?

What's with the attitude? I shouldn't even repond to this because it's the same broken record of discontent we've faced for three years now--from so called "industry experts." It's getting old. No matter what we do. No matter the results we achieve. You will continue to be hostile and negative. And you'll probably still be saying the same things even after the building is topped off and the last joyful tenant moves in.

Wow, you're playing the victim card? I certainly don't agree with most of the things Vultur is saying, but we are talking about criticism from a couple of curmudgeons on an internet message board here. "Broken record of discontent for three years"? Spare me the melodrama. The overwhelming majority of people in this city are probably either glad to see something of significance built on that parking lot, completely indifferent, or unaware of the project. And most people on this forum fall squarely in the first category.

Perhaps your unprofessional reaction to mundane criticism is indicative of why the project had difficulty selling out the high end suites in the original configuration. You generate good PR through goodwill and a positive outlook; being vocally defensive makes you seem less confident and weak. It is for good reason that major companies and politicians almost always ignore or deflect criticism rather than speak out to defend themselves.

Jaye101: Your not being serious, are you?



^^ Nope, I forgot to tell you I am a part time comedian.

The market niche for this project is the executive business traveler or local business executive who wants a place downtown right next door to where they work while they keep a primary residence in the suburbs.



I'll be honest, I can't imagine anyone keeping a primary residence in the burbs and an expensive, high-end unit at the Trump tower for...for what? It just doesn't make sense.

But wealthy people from out of town who do a lot of business here might find that a good idea.

Wow, you're playing the victim card? I certainly don't agree with most of the things Vultur is saying, but we are talking about criticism from a couple of curmudgeons on an internet message board here. "Broken record of discontent for three years"? Spare me the melodrama.

Perhaps your unprofessional reaction to mundane criticism is indicative of why the project had difficulty selling out the high end suites in the original configuration. You generate good PR through goodwill and a positive outlook; being vocally defensive makes you seem less confident and weak. It is for good reason that major companies and politicians almost always ignore or deflect criticism rather than speak out to defend themselves.

Give him a break. He has put 3 years of his life into this project and you're not exactly talking to Donald Trump here. That's the level you would find the deflection expertise you seem to be expecting.

There are people on this forum that seem to only be able to look at this project from their own personal perspective while not understanding there are other motivations for buying in this market. If you travel to Toronto for business in the financial district and want a hotel or temporary residence, many people want to be "right there" and not a short subway ride away. (If you have that kind of dough for one of these hotel/residences, most would not ride the subway anyway.) The market niche for this project is the executive business traveler or local business executive who wants a place downtown right next door to where they work while they keep a primary residence in the suburbs.



I'm curious, you did purchase a hotel condo and that's the niche you're talking about right? None of the other luxury brands are providing these in Toronto, so how it works is if your condo is rented out, you take in about half of the accomodation fee? But it's not really a profitable investment, just a way to get a bit of money back? Are you just looking to flip your unit for a quick profit?

What I find obnoxious about vultur, is his extreme negativity, and his irresponsible statements, such as 'most of these projects will not get built', 'there will be 1000s of units unsold in the credit crunch', 'Schnaider is really just laundering money, it is all smoke and mirrors' etc, etc.


I suppose you believe the hype that the guy just hustled his way into a billion dollar fortune by the time he was 35 years old by cleverly maneuvering through the friendly waters of the post-communist era Russian industrial establishment and making a name for himself as a steel magnate? All from the comforts of his North York bunker.

I for one do not. You are entitled to your opinion.

As far as the credit crunch goes, it will put an end to the rampant speculation that has gripped the Toronto condo market for quite some time. Given that there are about 30,000 units currently under construction it is safe to assume that thousands of them will remain unsold and stranded by the liquidity trap. Bona fide homebuyers won't have a problem tapping the mortgage market. The problem is that so many of the condo market purchases in the last few years have not been made by bona fide end users but rather by specuvestors from around the globe. I believe that trend will reverse.

You are entitled to your opinion.

My apologies for the off topic rants. I am a believer in the city over time, but I also sense that the cycle there has gotten very long in the tooth as they say.

A pleasant evening to all.

I don't see Trump usurping Yorkville as the place for executives to hang before heading home to some 905 castle in a galaxy far, far away.

still think you got lured in by the Trump name (obviously an idol of yours) and haven't a clue on how the market actually works here


But wealthy people from out of town who do a lot of business here might find that a good idea.

business travel in general sucks (why its mostly done by ranking peons) so I don't see why an executive traveling here with an unlimited expense account (like a sheik that is also CEO) would choose Trump in the CBD that is far from fun

business travel in general sucks (why its mostly done by ranking peons) so I don't see why an executive traveling here with an unlimited expense account (like a sheik that is also CEO) would choose Trump in the CBD that is far from fun

Well, that would be up to him.

I don't see Trump usurping Yorkville as the place for executives to hang before heading home to some 905 castle in a galaxy far, far away.

I honestly think the local market is the smaller of the market opportunties for the residences. The price of $1.5M for a down town residence is really not all that much money to people with $10M main residences. So does it make sense to buy a Trump residence when your main residence is 30 minutes away???? Yes, about as much sense as it makes buying residences in 5 other cities throughout the world that you rarely stay in. There are two types of purchasers, the one I just described and the other is the one who buys in early as an investor. You know which one I am and the other is a potential buyer for me to sell to at completion.

still think you got lured in by the Trump name (obviously an idol of yours) and haven't a clue on how the market actually works here.

It's interesting that you feel the Toronto real estate market is so substantially different from the other world markets. Seems to be a common theme on this thread. I personally don't see it any different actually. If you were to rank markets similar to the U.S., Canada would have to be right up there on the list. I have bought other Trump properties and am confident Toronto will provide similar results. Every market has their Trump skeptics so I am used to it by now.

business travel in general sucks (why its mostly done by ranking peons) so I don't see why an executive traveling here with an unlimited expense account (like a sheik that is also CEO) would choose Trump in the CBD that is far from fun

This is the most interesting comment of all that you made. You don't think top executives travel much? When they travel, they only stay at 5 star properties if they are available which are generally close to commerce centers like the CBD, not Yorkville. Honestly, if you look at the ammenities of the various properties we are talking about, Trump stands out above the rest by far. He does have the touch for going over the top for extravegance. Most people would find that appealing if they have the money to afford it.

I have never known a CEO who picks a location because of "fun" while travelling on business because they are just too busy. That would be more of a choice by the "ranking person" you were describing and I doubt they would have approvals for staying at a 5 star property.

I think it could work as a hotel, the residence part, not as appealing, considering other options.

so demolition begins in a couple of weeks, eh?

I don't see why Trump doesn't work as a residence, everything is close by and so convenient. For anyone who works in the business district, it's a great location.

I don't see why Trump doesn't work as a residence, everything is close by and so convenient. For anyone who works in the business district, it's a great location.


It does and it will. They only have a couple units left of their current "released" inventory.

I've got an idea though. Maybe we should move the CBD to Yorkville since apparently it is paradise and the only good spot for a hotel/condo. :nuts:


I suppose you believe the hype that the guy just hustled his way into a billion dollar fortune by the time he was 35 years old by cleverly maneuvering through the friendly waters of the post-communist era Russian industrial establishment and making a name for himself as a steel magnate? All from the comforts of his North York bunker.

Didn't anyone explain the rules to vultur about this thread????? Ok, I will then. You are only allowed to trash Donald Trump. I would recommend you start with the hair, and then move to his TV show, arrogance, multiple wives, Rosie, and finish with his children. We score your posts based on the number of repetitions you make saying the same thing over and over again. Try not to base anything on facts or you will be disqualified. First prize is a spot on "The apprentice" where you will be able to hurl your insults in person.

Good Luck!

Strange, Emporis removed the Trump Tower from their list.

oh no it's been cancelled.

:(

What are you talking about? The building is still located on Emporis.

thank god ...wooh.

note the absence of new openings the last few months - no builder wants to get stuck with unsold inventory

Actually Q2 2007 has 36 new project openings and set a record for sales (6,997 condo sales in the GTA).

I can't find it on their list of buildings for Toronto. It used to be there, now it's gone.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=100993&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1

true Burano, The L Tower, Shangri-La and Four Seasons had enormous sales something we haven't seen in Toronto.

Lol, Emporis is anything but reliable.

Ericeric it is uncer Toronto buildings, if you don't see it then type Trump.

I can't find it on their list of buildings for Toronto. It used to be there, now it's gone.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=100993&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1


oh no! Trump has been cancelled? agaian??

just 4 weeks before construction....oh lord.

why are you doing this to me ericeric?

Ericeric it is uncer Toronto buildings, if you don't see it then type Trump.

Thank God!

Robin155 your the best!!

Oh good, I was confused there for a second. I thought Emporis had some secret information, but clearly not. They should put it back on their list of high rises though.

http://www.trumptoronto.ca/splash/trumpto_splash.html

Awesome, it's finally happening! :banana:

Awesome, it's finally happening! :banana:

And you all have me to thank.

thank god...

thank god...

If by God you mean me, then you're welcome.

He was clearly talking to me.

So exciting!! I don't know why people are so against this project..

anyways I was wondering...in the movie they were saying excellent views of Lake Ontario and North to the surrounding Skyline...Well from what I can see...their views will be Scotia, BMO and Bay-Adelaide :lol::|

Their web site still references a building height of 70 stories.....

The site says the of updating the web page. Its says you can view the existing site.

Trump's plan for a new building in the warehouse district just outside of SOHO in New York City is now offering pre-construction prices of $2900 sq. ft.

Trump Toronto is a bargain at $1400 sq. ft. with construction starting in about 3 weeks.

oh no it's been cancelled.

:(

I doubt that would be your reaction:lol:

So exciting!! I don't know why people are so against this project..

anyways I was wondering...in the movie they were saying excellent views of Lake Ontario and North to the surrounding Skyline...Well from what I can see...their views will be Scotia, BMO and Bay-Adelaide :lol::|

I bet half the people who purchased don't know about B-A going up:lol:

Question for trumptoronto. Is the hoarding going up September 4?

Is the sales office closed yet?
I don't think hoarding will go up until just before they're ready to tear down the sales office.

I bet half the people who purchased don't know about B-A going up:lol:

Well from what I can see...their views will be Scotia, BMO and Bay-Adelaide

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Especially now with that shortened version. Before, at 70 stories, those
people who purchesed apartments from, let we say, 57 to 70 stories would
have wonder of a view. Only they. The rest will live with the fact that
they purchased insanely expencive apartment in the building with the NAME
but no view.
Pitty, pitty, pitty...greedy, greedy, greedy...it could have been such a
beautifull and imposing building. The real crown in the jewel. It will be
still, but only from the street perspective. In the term of visibility, it will be
hardly noticeable in the skyline surrounded by the other giants. Well, maybe
using the spy glass one will be able to see the SPIRE...Trump building Toronto the "northern comfort"

Intheknow07, does trumptoronto have the same information as you do? Because you said the fencing goes up September 4? Thanks.

Intheknow07, does trumptoronto have the same information as you do? Because you said the fencing goes up September 4? Thanks.

trumptoronto has never given you specific dates like I have so you would have to ask him why. Yes, barricades up Sept 4th.

Well from what I can see...their views will be Scotia, BMO and Bay-Adelaide

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Especially now with that shortened version. Before, at 70 stories, those
people who purchesed apartments from, let we say, 57 to 70 stories would
have wonder of a view. [/I]

They did not offer floors 57 - 70 to the market. They also did not promise a particular view of things other than the direction it faced.

Those who purchased residences early in Trump tower are now much closer to the top of the building then they had expected without having to pay the premium for it. There is also less inventory to compete with when selling our units and we paid less for higher floors then what lower floors are selling for. It's all good!

Somebody tell me how the Ritz, Four Seasons, or Shangrila could have been a better investment opportunity regardless of the views they have.

It is such a small site. I always wondered how are they going to built the underground parking? the ramps will take all the space they have to go down; unless park along the ramps.

It is such a small site. I always wondered how are they going to built the underground parking? the ramps will take all the space they have to go down; unless park along the ramps.

I was under the impression it would have a car elevator... I know it's at least supposed to have a stacking system.

Sapphire was supposed to have a stacking system. I've never heard anything about Trump having one.

It is such a small site. I always wondered how are they going to built the underground parking? the ramps will take all the space they have to go down; unless park along the ramps.

the parking is above ground and I would think a system like you said where the parking decks are slanted serving as the ramps

the entire ground floor is devoted to loading & car entrances for the hotel and for the parkade ... nice, eh?

It is such a small site. I always wondered how are they going to built the underground parking? the ramps will take all the space they have to go down; unless park along the ramps.

Parking is above-ground (floors 2-7) and there will be some use of elevator/stacking parking units. All parking will be valet-only.

Parking is above-ground (floors 2-7) and there will be some use of elevator/stacking parking units. All parking will be valet-only.

so "chi chi"

Question for trumptoronto. Is the hoarding going up September 4?

Last I heard, the temporary fencing is going up Sept 10th. And for those who are curious, due to scheduling issues, the ground-breaking ceremony has been moved to early October. It will be a press-only event, but I'll pass along the details as we get closer to it...

vultur : 1
toronto forumers ssc: 0

Caltrane74, you are overreacting.

maybe ..but geez...

delay, delay , delay.

The date we should all look forward to is September 7, lane closure for construction.

Groundbreaking is more symbolic is anything else. For example, Bell lighthouse started construction in February and had its groundbreaking in April.

September 7 is the key date.

IntheKnow07 says September 4 and TrumpToronto says September 10? Which one is it?

vultur : 1
toronto forumers ssc: 0

The groundbreaking event was moved two weeks because of scheduling conflicts with The Trump Organization... but now, Mr. Trump, Don, Ivanka and Eric will be attending. I wouldn't read any more into it than just that.

BTW, September 18th was never a confirmed date for the ceremony (which is why I've been mum about it)... it was a tentative date, dependent on Mr. Trump's availability. He's a busy man. But it now looks like we have all the stars aligned.

Things are happening... the parking lot will be closed soon and the existing sales centre will be history in the next couple of weeks. I'm excited!

it was a tentative date, dependent on Mr. Trump's availability. He's a busy man. But it now looks like we have all the stars aligned.

It’s hard and time consuming work pimping out your name to projects and making crappy reality TV shows.

The groundbreaking event was moved two weeks because of scheduling conflicts with The Trump Organization

How could there be any such thing? This is what they do. What could be so important that delaying a groundbreaking on a project like this makes sense?

How could there be any such thing? This is what they do. What could be so important that delaying a groundbreaking on a project like this makes sense?

As I mentioned... there was never a confirmed date until just recently for the groundbreaking ceremony. The 9/18 date was a target... a tentative date. Nothing is being delayed. The ceremony date does not affect the construction prep/demolition work that will be taking place on the site.

Why is everyone always bitching in this thread? It's not even fun to read it anymore cuz some hater is always questionning some fact or some statement or some release!

The building is going to be built. Enough already!

For years i have noticed there has been an interesting conflict between people here.

well you see this building is a flash point between the optimists about Toronto and the pessimists and haters of Toronto.

People who think the city is falling apart or don't want the city to succeed, want the building to fail, so they would be right and that would make them feel better. However there are some people who just dislike this building and want something else there.

However its all quite pointless because the future of Toronto is not based on this one building like the Hydro tower in Winnipeg....

We have many new buildings not as tall but quite tall nonetheless.

I am sticking with my original message 2 months ago that groundbreaking will be Sept 18th. However Donald and his offspring will be in town Oct 2nd to do their ceremonial activities due to schedule conflicts. The sales office demolition, barricades, lane closures will all precede the ground breaking.

The actual date that the shovel hits the ground is unimportant, as long as it happens.

There seems to be a real outbreak of kiddy-like impatience in this thread. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Relax and enjoy the scenery.

Question for in Intheknow07 how come you and trumptoronto have different dates regarding when preliminary barricades will go up.
You said September 4 and trumptoronto said September 10. Whats up will that? Why isn't everyone on the same page?

There seems to be a real outbreak of kiddy-like impatience in this thread. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Relax and enjoy the scenery.

Agreed.

There seems to be a real outbreak of kiddy-like impatience in this thread. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Relax and enjoy the scenery.

Can we stop? I have to go pee. :)

Question for in Intheknow07 how come you and trumptoronto have different dates regarding when preliminary barricades will go up.
You said September 4 and trumptoronto said September 10. Whats up will that? Why isn't everyone on the same page?

seriously .. Spock; Lighten Up!

I'm not upset I'm just wondering. It would make sense if they were on the same page. Maybe they could clear this up.

Question for in Intheknow07 how come you and trumptoronto have different dates regarding when preliminary barricades will go up.
You said September 4 and trumptoronto said September 10. Whats up will that? Why isn't everyone on the same page?

Not sure I have a great answer for you except that I do not get my information from him. If we repeated the exact same information, what fun would that be anyway? :)

I'm not upset I'm just wondering. It would make sense if they were on the same page. Maybe they could clear this up.

IntheKnow and I do not work together! I know the information from the people I work with, and he has another source. Simple as that.

IT'S SEPTEMBER!!!! LET'S GO DIGGING!!! :dance: :banana: :cheers:

^^ I hear you!!:banana: :banana: :cheers: :cheers: :carrot: :carrot:

Hi I am new to this forum. Can someone guide me to a thread about Toronto Investment issues? I want to know which properties are worth investing in. Thanks.

There is no investment thread per se. Just visit different building threads and you'll find out which ones are good investments.

I'm gonna buy a spade at Dudley's Hardware and dig a hole through the concrete myself if necessary.
I'll even buy a horrid orange toupee if necessary.

I'm gonna buy a spade at Dudley's Hardware and dig a hole through the concrete myself if necessary.
I'll even buy a horrid orange toupee if necessary.

Oh no TB, not your Village People fantasy again!!!!

:lol:
everyone wanted to be the construction guy!

screw the spade ... I'll rent you a bobcat!

as posted by Andrew3D over at UT.....

Walked past today (Sept 04) and they were busy tearing apart the interior of the sales office.


Here we go.............


and I would add......:banana:

Hey, those are my bananas! :banana2:

A project 6 years in the making. Hopefully she turns out nice, we have a long journey ahead of us.

Are they allowed to tear down the sales office? Seems like it should qualify as a heritage landmark. Maybe they can incorporate its facade into the tower.

Are they allowed to tear down the sales office? Seems like it should qualify as a heritage landmark. Maybe they can incorporate its facade into the tower.

LOL!!!!

Are they allowed to tear down the sales office? Seems like it should qualify as a heritage landmark. Maybe they can incorporate its facade into the tower.

As of now, you are winning 'Post Of The Day', but it's still early. :D

They are going to move it out to a park in Scarborough, along with the L'Oreal hoarding from the Toronto Life site! Historical.

Andrew3D on UT reported as of yesterday that the interior of the sales office was being dismantled.

Taller.... the Guild Inn will explode with activity if they get the hoarding and the Trump sales centre. Too bad they'll have to trash some of those rotting corinthian columns to make it all fit. I woulda loved to put some of those in my garden.

woulda loved to put some of those in my garden.

I bought a rescued gargoyle/grotesque last year online ... cost a pretty penny but was damn worth it ... considering looking for another and calling it 'Better'

Taller.... the Guild Inn will explode with activity if they get the hoarding and the Trump sales centre. Too bad they'll have to trash some of those rotting corinthian columns to make it all fit. I woulda loved to put some of those in my garden.


Well, maybe we can take some of the historical ruins off their hands to make room for the hoarding and Trump sales centre, and move it closer downtown! I think that would be the neighbourly thing to do. Today's discards are tomorrow's treasures, etc...... One kindly old fellow on Antiques Roadshow used to say this to people who brought in a piece of crap granny teapot worth 50 pence:"Use it and enjoy it... it is an heirloom of tomorrow!!".

I bought a rescued gargoyle/grotesque last year online ... cost a pretty penny but was damn worth it ... considering looking for another and calling it 'Better'


did you call the first one "Taller"? :lol: If memory serves me I think you live in a lovingly restored mid 19th century Victorian, don't you?
My friend recently scored some rescued original shutters in a rural Ontario town and they look amazing on his mid century Georgian brick house here.

If memory serves me I think you live in a lovingly restored mid 19th century Victorian, don't you?

sold it recently (edit: jeez ... time is just flying ) when I thought I was moving out west but the chain wouldn't clasp around the ankle

I've never been fond of the feeling of a chain clamping round my ankle, either...
tend to pick up my feet and keep on moving! ;)
You got your eye on a condo now or a replacement historical house?

The interior of the Trump Sales Centre was all cleaned out this afternoon... :)

sold it recently (edit: jeez ... time is just flying ) when I thought I was moving out west but the chain wouldn't clasp around the ankle

Thank god... what were you thinking? Not the selling... but the moving! You usually have a good grasp of the future......

You got your eye on a condo now or a replacement historical house?

have a contract

I visited Trump Las Vegas last week. For all those who do not care for the Toronto design, you should be thanking your lucky stars.

That is the hideous gold twin stubby tower that they promoted so heavily on his tv show, is it not? Garish beyond belief, but will appeal to those who applaud novelty at any cost.

For some reason I keep thinking that when Trump is actually finished, it will look taller and nicer than we imagine it to be right now. Ever since they cut the height I've lost some of my hype for the project, but whenever I go downtown I imagine it there and I feel Trump would really be a great addition.

BTW, do we have any official renders of Trump with its new height?

Not sure is this is new news but Trump has been fenced off.

You mean the site?

Yes, the sales centre has been gutted and the parking lot is now all fenced off.

So it's official, Trump Tower Toronto has started construction.

Bananas are on me :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2:

it's official, Trump Tower Toronto has started construction

I doubt the fencing could hold 57 floors of glass and concrete

Halle-frickin-luiah!! Six carrots, please... and put them on Waterloo's tab!

:carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:

Awesome!! Finally!!

Noticed a Citytv truck as I walked past this morning...
A press conference or just a ceremonial sledge hammer to the sales centre?:)

Noticed a Citytv truck as I walked past this morning...
A press conference or just a ceremonial sledge hammer to the sales centre?:)

Maybe we can get Trump to donate the Sales Centre to a few of his biggest supporters, KGB & Vultur! (and a board or two for Valantino) :)

sounds like a plan.

btw: vultur has left this board to pester fourmers on urbantoronto.ca

just joking vultur!! I know your a good guy with a strong mind and a very big mouth ( keystroke??)

Walked by again today, the sales office is virtually gutted, even the fixtures were gone. I'm glad I was able to break the news first :)

Thanks for informing us CrazyCanuck!

Here's a pic courtesy of paul451 at UrbanToronto to put the naysayers to rest.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/paul451/DSC_0798.jpg

Here's a pic courtesy of paul451 at UrbanToronto to put the naysayers to rest.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/paul451/DSC_0798.jpg

Is that ugly 4 storey building that is right next to the Sales office in the picture coming down as well ? If not, this is really a tiny lot.

OMG that is not an ugly building. It is the old Dominion Club.. a very handsome Victorian building (well the front and interior, anyway! LOL!). It is not coming down, thank God.

Well, from the north it looks like hell. Luckily, Trump will cover that up.

i guess it's a good thing it's not coming down, but it sure couldn't have hurt if trump just bought it out, and created space for the dominion club inside the bigger trump tower.

^^but it sure couldn't have hurt if trump just bought it out?


bought it out as in tear it down? have you not seen what Trump looks like from streetlevel?

^^ Valantino, So how could a 59 Storey building being put in such a narrow spot possibly look Stumpy? (remembering old quotes)

How much do you all think it would have cost to buy out the old Dominion Club building?

One benefit of it staying is the seperation it provides from the other large buildings around Trump.

It's actually the National Club and it's a designated heritage building.

The National Club (as correctly referenced by Me Too) is indeed a very handsome building from the front and inside as well.

I wish I had a picture to demonstrate this. IIRC, it is an older society than the Ontario Club (Dominion Club?) who currently operate out of 1 King West.

Absolutely correct.. National Club. 1874. Beautiful frontage. Dominion Club
is the Stinson one.

I hope there's enough transparency in the Trump lobby to ensure the Scotia sign will still be easily recognized.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/paul451/DSC_0798.jpg

that building may look not nice from the side but the street side is very old school looking.

A look we need more of in Toronto, but sadly that time has passed.

The scary thing is that if it is torn down what can be built there? Can a narrow office tower fit in there? The building is not that pretty, no architecture at all just because it's Victorian doesn't make it a keeper. I would tear it down in a heart beat if it were to be replaced with a semi-tall office tower.

^^ Just leave it there, it's going to be hardly noticed since it's sandwich between giants.

I have to assume that the people who want the National Club torn down have not seen the Bay Street facade. I think it's a beautiful building and it's my favourite in the financial core.

trumptoronto: can you correct/fill in the gaps for me?

Hotel
Level 1, Lobby, Sushi Bar
Levels 2 – 7, Parking
Level 8, Administrative Offices
Level 9, 2 Restaurants (1 Casual and 1 Five –Star/Fine dining)
Level 10, Business Center and Meeting Rooms
Level 11, ?
Level 12, ?
Levels 13 – 23, 11 floors of Hotel with 15 suites per floor = 165 units
Levels 24 – 30, 7 Club Trump floors with 13 suites per floor = 91 units
Level 31, 1 floor with 5 Trump executive suites = 5 units

What's going underground? Which 2 floors are dedicated to Mechanical?

The building is not that pretty, no architecture at all just because it's Victorian doesn't make it a keeper.

I don't know how anyone could not call the Bay Street Frontage pretty and as to the side of the building ... well ... it's not meant to be seen and up until the mid-1990s wasn't (3 storey retail bock was torn down to make way for the Ritz)


The scary thing is that if it is torn down what can be built there?

it's protected by the Ontario Heritage Act so you don't have to worry about this keeper

The scary thing is that if it is torn down what can be built there? Can a narrow office tower fit in there? The building is not that pretty, no architecture at all just because it's Victorian doesn't make it a keeper. I would tear it down in a heart beat if it were to be replaced with a semi-tall office tower.

My guess is that you have never even seen the building, and are talking out of your hat.... but, this being the internet, you will respond that of course you have seen it, and you walk by it every day!! ;)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Summer%20Part%20Two/jun1506BayStTheNationalClub.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Summer%20Part%20Two/jun1506BayStTheNationalClubentrance.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Summer%20Part%20Two/jun1506BayStTheNationalClubi.jpg

^^ It does look much better from the front. Too bad we have a historic site next door as Trump could have benefitted from the extra space.

Can we pick it up and move it to Yorkville? :)

The scary thing is that if it is torn down what can be built there? Can a narrow office tower fit in there? The building is not that pretty, no architecture at all just because it's Victorian doesn't make it a keeper. I would tear it down in a heart beat if it were to be replaced with a semi-tall office tower.

Don't go making me slap your wrist!!!

The National Club is a gorgeous building and not to be messed with. We are damn lucky to have it and thanks TB for posting the pix of it. The National Club adds some serious small scale dignity to Bay Street and is an excellent reminder of what Bay Street once was.

^^ Of course I have seen it. It's just my opinion, that's it. :(

For all of you who are so proud of the National Club, are you allowed in it? Just curious........ Anybody got a wrecking ball? :runaway:

^^I don't follow as I've yet to find any building I don't own/lease where I can freely roam the hallways

however the 'got a wrecking ball' explains a lot though

It's just my opinion

and in this particular case, thankfully, your opinion doesn't stand for anything

For all of you who are so proud of the National Club, are you allowed in it? Just curious........ Anybody got a wrecking ball? :runaway:

Think I am going to be allowed into the Trump Tower either? ;)

It is just one of many thousands of private spaces in the city.
If it came down to a choice between the Trump Tower going up or the National Building coming down... you and The Donald certainly wouldn't be getting my vote (and I've been supporting TT since day one).
So keep your wrecking ball for use on the TT sales office only.

and in this particular case, thankfully, your opinion doesn't stand for anything

Is there any reason why you don't use capitals and periods, not trying to offend you. Just something I've always wondered about over the years. :)

its quicker

I'm often tempted to do the same thing.

The building is not that pretty, no architecture at all just because it's Victorian doesn't make it a keeper. I would tear it down in a heart beat


It's designed to be quite masculine, not "pretty". No architecture??? It's textbook perfect architecture...it has a bottom, middle, and top...all different, yet tied together by it's 4 bays...all done in only 4 floors, yet doesn't look overly heavy. Not surprising, given the talented architect that designed it (S.G. Curry, of Darling & Curry fame).

And it's Edwardian, not Victorian.



The National Club adds some serious small scale dignity to Bay Street


Sums it up nicely.




KGB

Maybe we can get Trump to donate the Sales Centre to a few of his biggest supporters, KGB & Vultur!

Hmmm....any Parzinger, Kagan, or Wegner in there? Sure, I'll take it off your hands...otherwise, no tanks.




KGB

Shouldn't Trump Tower be added to the Highrise section on SSC?

^^looks better as a supertall

^^I don't follow as I've yet to find any building I don't own/lease where I can freely roam the hallways

however the 'got a wrecking ball' explains a lot though

and in this particular case, thankfully, your opinion doesn't stand for anything

Grumpy?