What are the chances Buffalo will see a proposal for a new 40+ story building?

it will happen. I mean Issa said he was going to build a signature tower for Buffalo. So its will happen.

it almost happened with Adelphia...

Something was supposed to be built along time ago that was going to be i think 40 stories. Third times the charm

I think this time we got it...any day now

Yes -- in 2121.

yea...and you'll still be in Cheektowaga! :)

Denied.

...Though I'd rather be in Cheektowaga than Batavia....

Say, don't you support new Nuclear plants? I think Batavia would be a fine choice -- it'd be able to supply power to both Buffalo and Rochester. Fabulous!

yea and provide hundreds of private sector high intelligence jobs too...take on some tax burden and produce efficient power to the area.

I would support it.

I have it on good authority that Isa's new tower is no less than 30 floors and could possibly be Buffalo's new tallest:

Here is one scenario:
top unit 2 floor penthouse, Buffalo's most expensive residence =2.8M
next 5 floors are $1.2M single unit per floor = $6M
then next 15 floors have four units each at 600,000 = 35M
the next 20 floors have 6 units at various prices adding up to 1.1M
= 22M
4 more residence floors bring in another 5M
2 floors of retail amortized over 10 years rental =5M
3 lower level parking decks with spaces for sale 25K each 150 = 3.75m

Grand total + - 80Mill in sales

subtract 800K for the architects. The real estate agent gets 2% =
say 200K so round up to another 1.5 mill or so for odd expenses and
78 mill construction cost brakes even. He has his own money so no
financing costs.

So it takes 2 years to build and 1 year to sell. He wants to
make 8% per year on his investment or 24% what does he have to build
it for?

Okay BuffCity, let's build it... on your house :D

steel, are you serious?!

Well, my source might turn out to be a wack job but we shall see. If it does not pan out we will hear from Fprmer

Well, my source might turn out to be a wack job but we shall see. If it does not pan out we will hear from Fprmer

New tallest? :tongue4: :nuts:

I dunknow, can Buffalo come up with that kinda money? i will believe it when the shovels hit the ground. (that goes for the Statler too)

Let's hope, but it's good that you're being realistic. Here in Nashville, two out of the three $5,000,000 penthouses in the Signature Tower have been snapped up, so maybe there's hope in Buffalo.

from what i've read they've(bsc group) scrapped their 67-story residential project in the uk. that would mean anything over 22 floors would be the tallest that issa's company has taken on.

i think you guys might be setting your hopes too high for this tower, but i hope you're all right.

Apparently, he proposed the 60 story tower and even began work before the city approved of the project and design. The design was rejected and he came back with a scaled-down two tower project.

Canopus / Greengate
Interest in this key site on the Salford side of the River Irwell was re-ignited in 2004 when ambitious developers BSC revealed a 60 storey concept proposal for the plot, which already had outline permission for a 30 storey structure.

With the help of local architects Arca this concept became the 179m tall Canopus, a conspicuous design containing a hotel and almost 800 flats, which was submitted for planning in January 2005.

A race for planning permission began when rival developers Oakglade also submitted their own proposals for three towers of 30, 24, and 17 floors.
Salford City Council later asked for the Canopus application to be withdrawn due to the quality of the design, the Oakglade proposal will probably meet a similar fate, the prominent podiums being an issue with both schemes.
BSC were quick to submit a revised outline plan for the site. It features two towers of 30 and 32 floors atop an 8 storey podium. Going by previous decisions this design could also be rejected by Salford Council, throwing the development of the site into more uncertainty.

However, Salford Council are said to still be keen on having a tall building on the site and are in discussions with planners and developers.

It'll be interesting to see what Mr. Issa comes up with. Can the Buffalo market handle all the new units that Mr. Issa is proposing?

I would pick something inbetween "Any day now" and "Yes, but at least ten years off".

I think we'll get a new tower within the next 7 years, assuming it will be a couple years before it's announced and a few years to complete it.

Whether it's the new tallest, I won't guess. Buffalo's skyline is a bit lopsided with most towers around 25 floors or less. And then there's HSBC at 40 floors. A 30 story tower in buffalo can still be "iconic" because it would rise above everything except one building. But a new tall tower to balance HSBC would be nice... 35 - 45 floors.

You sound like the Birmingham of the US ;) Im sure your get one sooner then later.

Even if Mr. Issa anounces an new building in the next few weeks, it probably won't be started for at least a year, my guess woudl be 2+ as they would need to pre-sell a certain amount of units. It would be the end of the decade before it is finished. He would be wise to make it a mix use building with plenty of office space on the bottom floors. I would envision soemthing liek the key tower in Portland. I'd like to see that building bookend the HSBC to balance downtown. I also don't want something too tall (HSBC is roughly 530" I think) as it would look weird. 600 feet would be as high as it should go.

Also, on this poll aren't "Not in my lifetime!" and "Sure- Right after the Bills win the 'Bowl!" the same thing?

even if someone wanted to build a tower all with their own money and even maybe give money to the city someone would complain and find a way to derail the whole thing... but i'll try to stay optimistic

You sound like the Birmingham of the US ;) Im sure your get one sooner then later.

No, the Birmingham of the US is getting new stuff ;)

:tongue4:

No kidding, wait til Mr. Issa runs into red tape, Buffalo style. It's gotta be one of the worst cities in the US to get anything done.

Ehh, sometime...

...but not now.

Though, we've had plenty of proposals in the past with a far shittier economy, so why not?

If it does not pan out we will hear from Fprmer
Yeah, and like 2 weeks to a month after even Osama bin Laden has heard the news from his cave, and then tout it like it's something only he knew.

red tape...yea we have alot of that lying around :)

Lying around? It's woven like a giant spider web all over the place. It's unavoidable. Mr Issa = unsuspecting fly.

I'd like to see a tower in the mid 600 foot range. :yes:
Buffalo deserves a new tallest. So many cities are getting them. Why not Buffalo? :)

Even if Mr. Issa anounces an new building in the next few weeks, it probably won't be started for at least a year, my guess woudl be 2+ as they would need to pre-sell a certain amount of units. It would be the end of the decade before it is finished. He would be wise to make it a mix use building with plenty of office space on the bottom floors. I would envision soemthing liek the key tower in Portland. I'd like to see that building bookend the HSBC to balance downtown. I also don't want something too tall (HSBC is roughly 530" I think) as it would look weird. 600 feet would be as high as it should go.

"key in portland"?
do you mean the KOIN tower?

Yeah, I meant this one
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=122619

^ a potential new scraper by this Issa guy will look nothing like that. That is an office building...all the projects he does are mixed use.

It will probably look something closer to this:
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=428790

No kidding, wait til Mr. Issa runs into red tape, Buffalo style. It's gotta be one of the worst cities in the US to get anything done.

haha ik, just wait until Issa has a run in with the local union scumbags here in NY. They will be bombing his site and threatening the lives of his employees because he won't pay these lazy local construction guys 5x what it really costs for them to build it.

Yeah, I know it'll look radically different. I don't like how thta building looks. This new one will be very modern. I just used it as an example of what it should be made up of. The bottom 4-19 floors of KOIN are office and the top 11 are condos. I think this buliding should be similar in make up.

haha ik, just wait until Issa has a run in with the local union scumbags here in NY. They will be bombing his site and threatening the lives of his employees because he won't pay these lazy local construction guys 5x what it really costs for them to build it.
Those assholes were out in force this morning in front of the Uniland site on Delaware (which btw looks like they're getting the foundation pretty much set). Today they were all holding signs which were in a font waaaaay to small to read for a driver-by.

Must be nice to just be able to stand around all day in protest, never caring enough to get another job.

Or shit like this:
Control board director targeted by pickets (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060823/1030195.asp)
God forbid they may have to cut their elective plastic surgery benefits or have to live on a pittance of a salary on par with private sector employees. Horrors!

maybe in 10 years +

You will need more than one tower to balance out Buffalo's skyline. Look at my city Cleveland. We have a 1,000 foot tower a 710 foot one, a 660 foot one and I guess I'll mention our 530 foot one they dominate over nearly everything. It makes it look as if there are only three buildings there.

http://imageigloo.com/thumbs/3801DTC.jpg (http://imageigloo.com/viewer.php?id=3801DTC.jpg)

As far as a new tower being built presales and market conditions are key, as well as no government getting the way with red tape. Other than that nothing should stop a new tower. I'll say within 10 years.

you people are forgeting that he already has the land and they are making the building plans

you people are forgeting that he already has the land and they are making the building plans

Not to burst your bubble but accourding to whom? So far evrything is just rumors... or so i thought?! We know about how he owns the Statler, but does anyone actually have proof that he owns anything else?

It's all speculation until we see the architect's rendering. But don't break out the champagne until we see the first shovel hit the ground.

acording to channel 4 he does. It is some parcle of land in the "CBD" Also having the land already bought is a big step.

"Issa said, "We have already acquired other land in the city center of Buffalo. We have already commissioned Canon Design to actually design a dramatic building. ... It's not far from the Statler. It will be very tall. It will be an iconic, symbolic building."

cannon...booo

Keep an eye on the Canon site for news

what is the site???

www.cannondesign.com
You can browse their projects and see a few Buffalo ones you might recognize, such as the HSBC atrium building near the arena. They have their HQ on Grand Island. If this project comes together, they will have news of it.

i just don't know about cannon for such a 'hopefully' signature highrise

i just don't know about cannon for such a 'hopefully' signature highrise
Well, architecturally, aesthetically, and comparatively to their other works, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill laid an egg with the Marine Midland/HSBC Tower. So maybe it can work the other way around.

it will be interesting, I'm sure when it comes out...it will be big news.

If this is true and something is unveiled in the near future, please God don't let the unions, special interest groups, preservationists, and unreasonable city/county/state regulations destroy this for us.

I think it will have to endure all of those and some...old Buffalo style for the new Buffalo


...ya know?

i hope this happens, the skyline would then change!

yea WZ, then we are gonna have to take half of our photos again. :eek2:

Errant Remark overheard a conversation among Issa’s people: Here’s a telling tidbit I heard from someone who’s had indepth contact with Issa and his group: One of Issa’s top-tier guys said this about Buffalo: “Buffalo is where Manchester was 15 years ago. You’re right on the cusp of an explosion.”

Errant Remark overheard a conversation among Issa’s people: Here’s a telling tidbit I heard from someone who’s had indepth contact with Issa and his group: One of Issa’s top-tier guys said this about Buffalo: “Buffalo is where Manchester was 15 years ago. You’re right on the cusp of an explosion.”

Oh God Bless that man.

I read that the other night, on Buffalo Pundit or something. Was going to post it but SSC had shit the bed. Thanks for posting! :)

we cover each other from time to time...I don't think much slips thru our filter here

well thats interesting...although i'd like to see something on paper...or the purchase of some land

I'm trying to relocate the full thing (that I saw) right now. I'll edit it into this post if I can find it.

It's not in my internet history because I blew out and reformatted my computer on Sunday. After a year or so, Winblows gets so bloated and the computer starts running like a POS and it pisses me off.

EDIT: Here's what I found. I think we were basically reading the same thing, however I may (or may not?) have dug a little deeper. I'm linking to my sources since I am essentially re-transmitting and providing an account without the express written consent of the NFL errr original author, so if anyone has a problem...
*****
Cusp of an Explosion (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/archives/3683)
Errant Remark overheard a conversation among Issa’s people:

Here’s a telling tidbit I heard from someone who’s had indepth contact with Issa and his group: One of Issa’s top-tier guys said this about Buffalo: “Buffalo is where Manchester was 15 years ago. You’re right on the cusp of an explosion.”

I hope they’re right.

And Errant Remark is right that the News must have been smoking some crack to put the Statler Towers sale on page D7. That’s A1 news. Above-the-fold. Definitely more significant than JonBenet.
*****
The Buffalo News doesn’t jinx (http://errantremark.wordpress.com/2006/08/18/the-buffalo-news-doesnt-jinx/)
August 18th, 2006
Bashar Issa closed on his $5 million purchase of the Statler Towers today, where he’s planning on sinking $80+ million into the place. And the news put that on page D7.

Why isn’t this A1 news? Unlike the nebulous, controversial Seneca casino, this deal is actually happening. Issa and his BSC Group, his Manchester, UK, based development company, actually bought the thing.

There was no controversy surrounding the deal. He’s not holding out for the city to give him a street, and based on his track record of restoring vintage properties and investing in rebuilding areas is impeccable.

Yet the News and the rest of Buffalo’s MSM outlets are virtually ignoring the deal. I think Buffalo Pundit’s post on the deal is indicative of why: no one can believe this is really happening. Hell, even Byron Brown hasn’t met with this guy yet.

I think the reason people are so skeptical of the deal is Buffalo’s been burned before. But this is one case where rolling out the red carpet for Issa is worthwhile; he’s doesn’t have to rely on government money to make this deal and check out the BSC Group website and their other projects. When it comes to investing in a rust belt area, there aren’t many companies that can match their track record. Manchester is basically a bigger version of Buffalo - a city ravaged by dying steel industries and fleeing population. In recent years it’s made an amazing comeback - it’s more cosmopolitan, and it’s become a chic place for young professionals and companies to locate. BSC’s projects tend to be beautiful - and successful.

UPDATE: Here’s a telling tidbit I heard from someone who’s had indepth contact with Issa and his group: One of Issa’s top-tier guys said this about Buffalo: “Buffalo is where Manchester was 15 years ago. You’re right on the cusp of an explosion.”
*****
Really good news for the Statler (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/archives/3679)
Pinch me, I must be dreaming.

British developer Bashar Issa confirmed Thursday he will officially close the deal to acquire the Buffalo landmark this morning, opening the door to an $80 million-plus effort to convert the building into a residential, hotel and office complex.

“I am very excited, very enthused to own this fantastic building,” Issa said. “We’ve been working behind the scenes on plans for the project and now we can begin.”

While the purchase price has not be made public, Issa and BSC Group of Manchester, England, are expected to pay around $5 million for the 18-story building.

Issa, who is not seeking government funding to overhaul the 73-year-old building, plans to convert the bulk of the structure to condominiums. Preliminary plans developed by Silvestri Architects of Amherst call for the upper 10 floors to house more than 200 condominium units.

Issa also learned quickly of Buffalo’s Bendersonization when it comes to parking proximity:

Issa also plans to build an eight-story parking garage on top of an existing three-story rear section of the complex, along Franklin Street. Originally, he had planned to construct a tenant parking facility a few blocks away.

“I’ve learned very quickly that Americans like to have their cars right where they live and work. In England, people don’t mind a small distance to the car park. It’s a cultural difference, I guess,” he said.

The entire project should be done in 4 years’ time.
*****

Plus, I found this interesting tidbit:

Rustbelt Decline to Creative City Rebirth (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/archives/3679)
No, I’m not talking about some pie-in-the-sky plan for Buffalo. I’m talking about a city that resembles Buffalo in a lot of ways and is on its way back.

Newcastle-on-Tyne in Northeast England.

Just take a look at this set of slides and tell me you couldn’t just replace the place-names with local ones. (.pdf). (http://www.ncl.ac.uk/critical/ILSNewcastle.pdf#search=%22newcastle%20decline%20and%20rebirth%22)

I’m now curious how much we could learn from Newcastle and other former steel towns that have found their way back.
*****

Unrelated, but I found this today and thought it was funny. Pikers.

Albany Story: A Graphic Novel (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/albany-story-a-graphic-novel/)

Man there's a shitload of good stuff and just general Albany-hating out there. It's like I died and went to heaven.

Did anyone else happen to catch Peter Hunt and George Hamberger on WBEN this morning talking about the AM&A's, and Statler projects as well as the 'Iconic Tower'
Hamberger especially seemed positive about the towers chances of coming to fruition. BTW he brokered both deals.

I hope "Iconic Tower" is the real name.

It'd be just as cheesy as "Signature Tower."

yea WZ, then we are gonna have to take half of our photos again. :eek2:


Thats quite alright with me, then our current plathora of photos become historic .. overnight.

Also, on this poll aren't "Not in my lifetime!" and "Sure- Right after the Bills win the 'Bowl!" the same thing?

Yes.

I hope "Iconic Tower" is the real name.

It'd be just as cheesy as "Signature Tower."
In our creativity-deprived culture, I'm just waiting for a new highrise somewhere called "Skyscraper", "Tower", or even "Building". Could use "Glass Tower" too, since that was already thought up in the 70s for the movie "Towering Inferno". And while they're at it, maybe they could re-make that movie too, it's one of the few originals that hasn't been "updated" (read: destroyed) lately.

Almost as bad as naming your first-born "Seven".

I hope "Iconic Tower" is the real name.

It'd be just as cheesy as "Signature Tower."
Perhaps it's going to be on the site of the old Icon bar?

In our creativity-deprived culture, I'm just waiting for a new highrise somewhere called "Skyscraper", "Tower", or even "Building". Could use "Glass Tower" too, since that was already thought up in the 70s for the movie "Towering Inferno". And while they're at it, maybe they could re-make that movie too, it's one of the few originals that hasn't been "updated" (read: destroyed) lately.

Almost as bad as naming your first-born "Seven".

Too late. Atlanta already has a new tower proposed called... Tower.

This follows on the heels of Spire, Aqua, Twelve, Realm, Encore, Avenue, Gallery, Mosiac, and Eclipse.

Ahh, Atlanta.

Well I knew it would happen sooner or later. Guess I shouldn't be surprised it was sooner, or in this case, already. Location makes no difference, whether it's Atlanta, East Bumfuck, or anywhere in between.

The other names you list, at least seem as though they might have a bit of double meaning, or at least mean something else; they're not really that bad. Granted it seems at least 25 cities worldwide are building a "Spire", but other than that.

I guess I just hope the architectural elements of "Tower" are more inspired than it's name - I guess that's all that really matters, right?

Barring a severe national economic slowdown there will be a 52 story building ready for a required 2012 occupancy. Total chances of it happening are about 75%

^^^^^^^^
what in the world does that even mean?! :weirdo:

^It means that people can make up statistics to prove anything. 27% of people know that.

^^ But only 13% of myself knew that.

If you don't mind my asking, exactly where did that come from? Just seems vague, is all.

Final total size depends on overall economic conditions, while the 75% probabilty of construction hinges on lease extension negotiations between potential tenant and it's existing landlord.

haha, i understand 47% then. thanks

haha, i understand 47% then. thanks
It's not confusing at all, there is a company in negotiations to be the anchor tenant of a proposed 52 story building. However there is about a 25% chance that they will reach an agreement with their current landlord, and thus not move. If they do not sign on as a tenant then the 52 story building is dead. Even if they do sign on, there is still a chance that the final building will be less than 52 floors depending upon market conditions at the time a final size decision must be made, which would be next year, if the building is to be ready for 2012 occupancy.

^^^^^^^
I was more confused about the 52 story tower!! Is that something ur making up, or is this the building that issa wants to built? i understand about the other stuff, i was joking.

It would make some sense if this happened to be Issa's, then we's have two rumors (as I see them based on evidence I've seen/heard myself) that would appear to go together.

Besides, <insert token Buffalo pessimism here> two 40+ scrapers at once... Let me say I hope one is a new hospital with a state-of-the-art cardiac center!

Seriously, though, it's definitely interesting, if not for just how "out of the wild blue yonder" this is. I don't know what to think?!? The scary part of it is you seem to know your "shit", so to speak.

Who is a big enough tenant to move into a 52 storey building right now? By 2012 you would hope market conditions would support a building of this magnitude.

Well for one thing, he said "anchor tenant". I would imagine you don't really have to consume that high of a percentage to be considered anchor.

But then that theory begs the question - who else?

So Issa can't possibly be making any announcement soon. It would look silly to publicly announce he was building this and have it fall through and then say "oh...sorry- never mind"

Well for one thing, he said "anchor tenant". I would imagine you don't really have to consume that high of a percentage to be considered anchor.

But then that theory begs the question - who else?

Anchor Tenant is The Barns Firm I bet.

I dunno...my guess would be some kind of Financial firm...I mean the Barnes Firm would be hard pressed to fill 5+ floors IMO.

Chase or....Wachovia

You know, the county wants to evict HSBC from the atrium... :gossip:

BuffCity, why would Chase or Wachovia build a tower here?

Again, they only have towers in cities where they have major operations and/or have taken over another bank.

Banks just don't build skyscrapers out of the blue anymore... this isn't the 80s.

its a guessing game...DO YOU KNOW THE ANSWER?

alright, thats what I thought

Yes, but let's at least have *logical* guesses, k?

;)

chase is located in Syracuse, Rochester and Cleveland...didn't see anything in Pittsburgh.

I don't know about you DT, but "usually" if someone wants to make a grand enterence in a market...might they consider being an anchor for the new "tallest" or tall skyscraper in a city that it has little to no market in now?

You say its not the 80's, but I bet your wardrobe is.

As for me...I'm standing firm in my guess that it will likely be a LARGE financial institution of the following list.

Chase - located all around Buffalo, just not Buffalo

Wachovia - everybody has heard they are coming

First Niagara - wants more exposure than what Lockport can provide (and has the market to make it happen)

Citizens Bank - oh yes...them too!


fact is DT, HSBC has lost the long battle over Buffalo...M&T is firm but there is still so much market to grab here.

and...Chase and Wachovia wouldnt be building the tower...ISSA would. :)

Think what you wish... but a large bank isn't going to lease hundreds of thousands of square feet in a new tower just to enter a mid-sized market. If only they did!

Time Warner??? New HQ??? Possibel???

Time Warner already has a new headquarters...

http://www.bus.umich.edu/RossB-SchoolGift/img/Exterior-Taxi_lg.jpg

;)

ooo yea. NYC, I like thay building.

chase is located in Syracuse, Rochester and Cleveland...didn't see anything in Pittsburgh.

I don't know about you DT, but "usually" if someone wants to make a grand enterence in a market...might they consider being an anchor for the new "tallest" or tall skyscraper in a city that it has little to no market in now?

You say its not the 80's, but I bet your wardrobe is.

As for me...I'm standing firm in my guess that it will likely be a LARGE financial institution of the following list.

Chase - located all around Buffalo, just not Buffalo

Wachovia - everybody has heard they are coming

First Niagara - wants more exposure than what Lockport can provide (and has the market to make it happen)

Citizens Bank - oh yes...them too!


fact is DT, HSBC has lost the long battle over Buffalo...M&T is firm but there is still so much market to grab here.

and...Chase and Wachovia wouldnt be building the tower...ISSA would. :)

Wachovia might indeed be coming to Buffalo; there are rumors of Wachovia buying M&T Bank.

I can see Citizens Bank moving into Buffalo, but they aren't going to be building anything new. They have grown very big in this area, and they only use pre-existing buildings around here, even with greater demand for office space.

I can also see Bank of America moving into Buffalo as they close the gap to become the biggest bank in the world.

I don't see a bank just coming in and building a huge skysraper; banks that have huge skyscrapers develop and grow into behemoths, and then take over the city they grew in. They don't really drop everything and move into a town and set up national or department headquarters there.

The Anchor Tenant is subosovly taking up 5 floors? in that building Issa want to build. No bank is building the building , Issa is.

Anchor Tenant is The Barns Firm I bet.
:puke:

:puke:

:puke:

God, I hope not. As it is, I hope Issa kicks their sorry asses out of the Statler so that building can regain some lost stature.

Besides, at the rate they're hemorraging lawyers (or at least they were last year), I would say they're in no position to be looking for expansion space. Same goes for that assclown Mattar. Did I just hear an ambulance drive by? Gotta run! :runaway:

:puke:

:puke:

Man, I haven't puked that much in years. I think I saw a boot come out!

"Anchor tenant" of a 50 story building taking only five floors? Hardly an anchor! Most developers, especially in a less than robust market like Buffalo, need 50 percent pre-leased prior to starting in order to get financing. That would be highly speculative and risky even if self-financed. Unless offices are only a small part of a mixed-use tower.

But here's the wet blanket- a 50 story building to be completed in 2012? Two years would be plenty of time to complete it. So someone is going to announce a building in 2006 or 2007, a tenant is going to commit to something that won't be ready for another six years, and work would be underway by 2010? Makes little sense. :weird:

I heard Boeing is very displeased with their recent move to Chicago and have set their sights on Buffalo.

hahahahaha^^^ i'll believe that when i see it.

If Boeing were to locate here, it would make more sense to move to Niagara Falls IMO. Sort of like their configuration with Snohomish Co/Paine Field in Everett, WA which by as far as I know seems to be a very similar airport. Although where you placed your HQ wouldn't necessarily need to be at an airport, especially depending on which operations were being relocated.

Put me in the "I'll believe it when I see it" crowd. Or at least when I see it published somewhere.

I heard Boeing is very displeased with their recent move to Chicago and have set their sights on Buffalo.
Where did you hear that?

I heard Boeing is very displeased with their recent move to Chicago and have set their sights on Buffalo.

True. They'll be co-locating in a new building also housing the East Coast HQs of Microsoft. :)

And right next store is the rumored location for the new Bank of America HQ. They've simply grown tired of their flashy Charlotte operations. ;)

And right next store is the rumored location for the new Bank of America HQ. They've simply grown tired of their flashy Charlotte operations. ;)

Where did you hear that? :lol:

OMG your guesses are outlandish! A law firm as an anchor of a 52 story building in Buffalo?!?! Boeing! Think major company in town for decades,with a lease that expires in 2012. No new company, no new jobs (perhaps even fewer jobs) just new digs. Currently having trouble in preliminary lease extension talks with current building owners. This is what I am hearing from one of my Buffalo real estate buddies. My company is not involved with any of this directly so I am just passing on what I am hearing from a trusted source.

It starts with an H and ends with SBC.

Where did you hear that? :lol:

The little man in my shed told me :hammer:

It starts with an H and ends with SBC.
Haechenbrosbc is coming to Buffalo? Sweet.

xzmattzx- you better hope Wachovia does not buy M&T or those jobs will all be going to Charlotte. that would be a total disaster. It would be like what happened to San Francisco when Nations Bank and B of A merged. At first they claimed everything would stay the same and then they yanked most operations east including the HQ.

^^ That happens and I'm switching bank accounts as I've previously mentioned. If that happens, then Key, First Niagara, Citizens, HSBC, GBSB, etc, com'ingetme! It would be cool if all area account holders just all moved to the same bank - a reincarnation lol.

It starts with an H and ends with SBC.
That probably makes the most sense. Though I'm going to disagree - it starts with HS and ends in BC. Tomayto Tomahto.

Though it seems to me we'd just be largely vacating a large tower in favor of another. Doesn't seem to be the optimal way to go about it. Maybe they're so thrilled at the prospect of ditching the Atrium so the City/County can let it sit and rot like the Aud?

And what's possibly better than the new tower itself - maybe it'll look better and the bowtie will actually look decent?

Or maybe it'll just be a carbon copy of the current tower, just a little taller. :puke:

In that case, one is enough; thanks but no thanks.

great two shoe boxes!!!! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

That probably makes the most sense. Though I'm going to disagree - it starts with HS and ends in BC. Tomayto Tomahto.

Though it seems to me we'd just be largely vacating a large tower in favor of another. Doesn't seem to be the optimal way to go about it. Maybe they're so thrilled at the prospect of ditching the Atrium so the City/County can let it sit and rot like the Aud?

And what's possibly better than the new tower itself - maybe it'll look better and the bowtie will actually look decent?

Or maybe it'll just be a carbon copy of the current tower, just a little taller. :puke:

In that case, one is enough; thanks but no thanks.

Shockingly, HSBC only occupies 5 floors in the tower. If it was indeed HSBC that was in negotiations for new space, it could be to consolidate their operations under one roof.

If HSBC ever left their 'signature' tower- imagine what impact it would have on the office market downtown? 600,000+ of space? It would take forever to fill. No, Larkin doesn't count- those were 50,000 sq.ft. floor and got tenants that likely would have chosen the suburbs.

Why are they negotiating a lease renewal now. Just wait until the building has new owners, it is on the market. If it comes off the market, HSBC has the owner where they want them. The proposal for a 'new tower' to locate to is nothing more than a threat. Next they'll say they're going to relocate to Fort Erie if they don't get a sweet lease.

Well, so much for saying an anchor tenant can't only occupy 5 floors of a major tower...

Who's #2?

Well, I take that back - we do occupy more than 5 floors, but many are mostly empty and the bank is trying to sublease them.

Floors 35 through 38 are completely empty because the bank moved it's executive operations out of Buffalo.

The second most high profile tenant is the Canadian consulate.

I would like it if this new building looked like this one:

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=425456

I'd put it right down on the waterfront.

Hence the tinted glass.

I would like it if this new building looked like this one:

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=425456

I'd put it right down on the waterfront.
Make it a little (a lot) less Commieblock-ish and update it a little, and it might look pretty cool.

Bridge the Skyway with it!

It's a total commie building. It's like the officials told him to come up with a space age building but the budget is $1000 kopeks. That or the architect left it up to his 5 year old to come up with. I think there is a buliding in Vancouver that is similar looking, but with only one tower.
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=344324

Well, I take that back - we do occupy more than 5 floors, but many are mostly empty and the bank is trying to sublease them.

Floors 35 through 38 are completely empty because the bank moved it's executive operations out of Buffalo.

The second most high profile tenant is the Canadian consulate.

What about these firms?

38: Harold C. Brown & Co., Inc. One HSBC Center 716-854-2500 Suite 3800
36: PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP 3600 HSBC Center

Maby Macy's will have a reginal HQ in Buffalo???

What about these firms?

38: Harold C. Brown & Co., Inc. One HSBC Center 716-854-2500 Suite 3800
36: PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP 3600 HSBC Center

You're right I - Harold C. Brown & Co. now takes up a small piece of the 38th. I think PC moved to another floor, but I'm not sure since I don't work at the Center anymore.

Here's the the most up to date list I have from floor 25 that are vacant:

Floor Space

38 - 3,510 sf Finished 828 sf suite contiguous to 2,682 sf of raw space. Offers panoramic vistas toward the west and south
37 - 3,226 sf to 18,419 sf Finished, as-is space or build to suit
36 - 14,700 sf Versatile finished suite with multiple offices and large open area
35 - 4,766 sf Elegantly appointed finished suite—move-in ready
28 - 3,242 sf Finished suite, multiple offices, and corner office with spectacular views
35 & 36 Can be combined to total 19,461 sf
37 & 38 Can be combined to total 22,000 sf

I'm somewhat confused though - it seems to be saying two different things. I can find out next week...

you know, in the last year or so...more have located into downtown rather that moving out.

I think the vacancy rate in downtown 4% from what I remember is healthy and puts Buffalo in a good position for adding new buildings and fill the existing ones.

you know, in the last year or so...more have located into downtown rather that moving out.

I think the vacancy rate in downtown 4% from what I remember is healthy and puts Buffalo in a good position for adding new buildings and fill the existing ones.

I don't know what the vacancy rate is downtown, but 4% sounds a little surprising to me. I took a real estate course in college and the rule of thumb is if there is a 6% vacancy rate or less, then it's time to build new buildings. If it is currently only 4% for all of downtown, then all that 4% must be coming from the Ellicott Square Building (where i work) because that whole building is almost empty...partly cuz its crappy space, and partly because the companies there don't like the way they are treated by Paladino (including my company, we're considering moving to Larkin Exchange)

last i read the vacancy rate for class A office space in downtown was actually around 3%, well below average.. the vacancy rate metro wide for class A space was around 12%, much more inline with the national average.
vacancy rates for b and c space i believe are through the roof.

From WestCoastPerspective:

According to CB Richard Ellis, downtown’s Class A vacancy rate- the newest space with the largest floor plates and the latest technology- is just 3.39 percent. As a point of reference, eight percent vacancy is typically considered equilibrium where there is adequate space to accommodate new tenants and expansions. For those tenants looking for high quality Class A space, there are few alternatives in the central business district. Downtown has just 137,000 square feet of Class A space available, most of it in a 50,000 sq.ft. block of space in the Bank of America Building at Fountain Plaza.*



But while Class A buildings are well occupied, Class B and C space downtown have vacancies of 13% and well above 20% respectively. It is the vacancy rates in these lower-grade buildings that help to account for both the perception and the reality of less-than-optimal usage of downtown office space.
____________

*Doesn't include future space at 285 Delaware, and we can subtract the space that Malcolm Pirinie just leased at Key Center.

BJF- Ellicott Square is emptying? Yikes. I always assumed that he had a healthy mix of small tenants in there. Maybe he's planning a residential conversion. :hahaha:

Paladino is about as nice to his own tenants as to the people he wants to build offices for must be?

This guy is just sitting on loads of land and waiting for someone to buy it up...perhaps with the growth of Buffalo's recent residential conversions and our lack of class A office space...somebody will but this stuff from him and actually be a contributing part of the downtown enviroment.

If he just did "something" everyone would like him and his intentions more...but it just seems that "nothing" is happening with him.

Ellicott Square is such a sweet building, so historic and so impressive, I would like to see offices stay there, but if a conversion is done...so be it.

From WestCoastPerspective:But while Class A buildings are well occupied, Class B and C space downtown have vacancies of 13% and well above 20% respectively. It is the vacancy rates in these lower-grade buildings that help to account for both the perception and the reality of less-than-optimal usage of downtown office space.

These are prime canidates for residential conversions. The current trends in office space tends to be towards Class A, so we should really start converting a lot of this Class B & C space to residential uses. Now I don't advocate turning it all into residential, because its good to have a mix of commercial uses downtown, and so businesses that want to move downtown don't have a need for Class A or can't afford it. But if I remember correctly the Class B & C vacancy rates are over 20% each which is rather bad so.... New Condos anyone?

problem is...people wont build condos unless they can secure leases, and they cant leases unless people people wanna move there...and people won't be flying into the downtown market until there are numerous "support" service oriented small businesses to give this new community life...perhaps when we see some dry cleaners, diners, 24hr stores, limited retail, and more cummunity type businesses, we will then know we are at the brink of BOOM.

Limited retail - as opposed to crippled retail. One of the last few times I visited my parents we went out of eat and my mother was talking about how growing up, she used to love going downtown for shopping. One of those things you'd look forward to doing all week. And that attitude probably still prevails among alot of other people as well. Who knows, build it and maybe they will come? I would, I enjoy being downtown despite not being the type to want to live there. Problem is, how do you convince a bunch of stores to make that risk?

And please don't say Bass Pro.

You're right I - Harold C. Brown & Co. now takes up a small piece of the 38th. I think PC moved to another floor, but I'm not sure since I don't work at the Center anymore.

Here's the the most up to date list I have from floor 25 that are vacant:

Floor Space

38 - 3,510 sf Finished 828 sf suite contiguous to 2,682 sf of raw space. Offers panoramic vistas toward the west and south
37 - 3,226 sf to 18,419 sf Finished, as-is space or build to suit
36 - 14,700 sf Versatile finished suite with multiple offices and large open area
35 - 4,766 sf Elegantly appointed finished suite—move-in ready
28 - 3,242 sf Finished suite, multiple offices, and corner office with spectacular views
35 & 36 Can be combined to total 19,461 sf
37 & 38 Can be combined to total 22,000 sf

I'm somewhat confused though - it seems to be saying two different things. I can find out next week...


So what you are saying is that you have been talking out you @ss?

Ellicott Square is such a sweet building, so historic and so impressive, I would like to see offices stay there, but if a conversion is done...so be it.
While it seems best to be an office building, it would make a pretty awesome residential structure. It could be an almost entirely self-contained village, what with the central atrium and everything. I'd say if that first floor tile isn't "historic", make that a big indoor patio and swimming pool for the residents lol. With first-floor retail.

Limited retail - as opposed to crippled retail. One of the last few times I visited my parents we went out of eat and my mother was talking about how growing up, she used to love going downtown for shopping. One of those things you'd look forward to doing all week. And that attitude probably still prevails among alot of other people as well. Who knows, build it and maybe they will come? I would, I enjoy being downtown despite not being the type to want to live there. Problem is, how do you convince a bunch of stores to make that risk?

And please don't say Bass Pro.


I see your point, and thats the main problem thus far is that people don't want to take the risk. Perhaps the city, with all the money they like to save :) can start some kind of stimulating package to do just this...like oversee lease terms, tax cuts or breaks and maybe even help fund some business research to ensure there is a demand and what is in demand...perhaps this could be private money as well, or by donations thru Buffalo Place or something.

I just don't see the housing market dooing what we all want without the supporting factors becoming more evident.

either way...time will tell.

So what you are saying is that you have been talking out you @ss?

X-actly

Limited retail - as opposed to crippled retail. One of the last few times I visited my parents we went out of eat and my mother was talking about how growing up, she used to love going downtown for shopping. One of those things you'd look forward to doing all week. And that attitude probably still prevails among alot of other people as well. Who knows, build it and maybe they will come? I would, I enjoy being downtown despite not being the type to want to live there. Problem is, how do you convince a bunch of stores to make that risk?

And please don't say Bass Pro.

Stores like the Washington Market are taking the risk. It's always the locals that start the chain of events that culiminate a successful downtown retail scene. It may take a few years, but nationals will take notice if the locals are successful.

So what you are saying is that you have been talking out you @ss?

No'd! In fact, I have some training to do at the Center on Monday. I think I'll get some shots for you guys from the top. Let's hope the weather is nice...

66° and partly cloudy, then rain from Tu-Th. Looks like you picked a good day!

Of course that is from the Weather Channel, so you probably need to invert the weather conditions. The same people who talk about rain possibly impacting baseball games in MSP and Tampa during their 7am show.

(MSP and Tampa play in domes, idiots!!)

It is going to be on a small site. It is going to be very tall and very thin. That means it will be residential for the most part.

interesting.

guess that rules out the Chase tower for Buffalo. lol

hmmm. That would mean that Boeing is going into another building that has not been talked about yet.

What is all this Boeing talk???

are they talking about the corporate offices for Boeing? what exactly is in Chicago that they now want in Buffalo?

don't you guys see Boeing being more of a suburban office park type...perhaps at Unilands parks in Cheektowaga or Depew/Lancaster?

Sheeesh- you guys are gullible.

:dizzy:

:scouserd: Gullible is right, just because one of the Nanula boys said it does not mean he was being serious. After all he's only been on the Boeing Board of Directors since last year. Hardly enough time to influence a move of that size.

Well unfortunately the Boeing deal has fallen through because it was leaked on the internets. Oh well!

By the way Boeing is in a high rise in Chicago's loop.


The new chatter I am hearing is that Johnson Wax is considering leaving its land mark Wright designed building in Racine for new digs in the Buff. It seems they are looking for a bigger city that retains their connection to Wright. Do I hear Larkin reconstruction?

I gotta run to the bank...you guys suck! :)

Well unfortunately the Boeing deal has fallen through because it was leeked on the internets. Oh well!

By the way Boeing is in a high rise in Chicago's loop.


The new chatter I am hearing is that Johnson Wax is considering leaving its land mark Wright designed building in Racine for new digs in the Buff. It seems they are looking for a bigger city that retains their connection to Wright. Do I hear Larkin reconstruction?

Really? Do you think it will be on the original site or closer to downtown?

:hahaha:

Really? Do you think it will be on the original site or closer to downtown?

:hahaha:
Closer to downtown (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/archives/3825#comments) - think Michigan Street:

When the 2nd Circuit declared the Senecas’ Buffalo Creek Casino to be illegal in 2008, the land was sold to a group of local nonprofits which raised $12 million in private and public funds to construct a gleaming museum of contemporary art, which is located in an exact replica of Frank Lloyd Wright’s old Larkin administration building.

Really? Do you think it will be on the original site or closer to downtown?

:hahaha:


Well... my understanding is that since they will be bringing 10-15K employees with them they will be constructing a new urban company village. The original Larkin neighborhood has pleanty of space for this type large scale project. They aslo like that fact that this neighborhood has one of the best military surplus stores in the north east.

steel - stop toying with us. :)

like a cat playing with a mouse

Got to work downtown today, but forgot my camera. I took some pictures with my phone and as soon as I figure out how to upload them, I'll post.

BTW, UBS has moved into the 37th floor of the Center. I went up and looked about to see who it was.

Also, a lady I talked to who has worked for HSBC/Marine Midland for 30 years sas that there used to be a restaurant on the top floor. When was this?

^ I don't remember when that was...but I remember seeing a pamphlet for the Marine Midland Tower that showcased that as a major amenity. My guess would be in the mid-90s atleast.

Yeah, wasn't too too long ago. I remember my father having been up there a few times.

Or maybe I'm confusing that with the WTC. Either way, there was a restaurant up there up until somewhat recently.

anyone hear anything lately about the "very tall, iconic building" or a timetable of when we might see a rendering/unveiling?

Also, a lady I talked to who has worked for HSBC/Marine Midland for 30 years sas that there used to be a restaurant on the top floor. When was this?


That restaurant was for employees and special events. It was casual but also very swank with great artwork and thick rugs. Top notch SOM interior design for its time. That floor also had a number of meeting rooms sort of like a conference center. You exited off the elevator and immediately had a stunning view looking down Main Street. It must have been a major power trip for the Marine Midland execs. they used to let you just go up there if you asked.

I hear Kodak is moving its offices to the Tri-Main building in Buffalo...no renovation and they will be bringing the entire staff of 78 employees.

for a moment I thought Buffalo was really getting a tower....
well, if it ever does happen, somebody send me a PM :D

If Hartford got a 37-story tower recently, Buffalo should get double! ;)

I would like to see it come true...

I hear Kodak is moving its offices to the Tri-Main building in Buffalo...no renovation and they will be bringing the entire staff of 78 employees.


That is just crazy talk Buff. Kodak would never move to Buffalo and besides they have at least 95 employees

not after the monthly layoffs...lol

anyone have any ideas about the possible location of Issa's tower?

for a moment I thought Buffalo was really getting a tower....
well, if it ever does happen, somebody send me a PM :D

guess he should read the whole thread...idea?

for a moment I thought Buffalo was really getting a tower....
well, if it ever does happen, somebody send me a PM :D

haha I'll be the first one to send you a PM when/if it does happen...tho, this thread was started because of a rumor by a developer on the news a few weeks ago. I guess he is currently working on renderings for an approx 50 story building. So there is a little something to back this thread up, not just a "what would happen if?" thread.

anyone have any ideas about the possible location of Issa's tower?

Yes.

Close to the Statler.

WCP you are out there in Cali...any truth to the rumor that Wells Fargo is moving its HQ back to its founding city...that being the Buff?

The grape vine has them building a tower on the site of the old (long gone)Fargo mansion

WCP you are out there in Cali...any truth to the rumor that Wells Fargo is moving its HQ back to its founding city...that being the Buff?

The grape vine has them building a tower on the site of the old (long gone)Fargo mansion
Why do you post obvious crap that is neither informative nor humorous?

Why do you post obvious crap that is neither informative nor humorous?


Suzie go back to Rochester.

Suzie go back to Rochester.
As soon as you go back to Chicago. At least I am in the same state and region. I know you are trying to be humorous but your posts are so devoid of cleverness that I feel embarrassed for you. Don't give up your day job - "The Onion" you ain't.

Yes.

Close to the Statler.

well no shit.

Close to the Statler.
lol... most of the CBD is "close to the statler"...

lol

I agree, what isn't?

University Heights? South Park? Riverside? :)

As soon as you go back to Chicago. At least I am in the same state and region. I know you are trying to be humorous but your posts are so devoid of cleverness that I feel embarrassed for you. Don't give up your day job - "The Onion" you ain't.


Suzie

Why are you so full of anger?

well no shit.

:)

In the shadows of City Hall (almost)

^^^^^
Morning Shadows or Evening?

Suzie

Why are you so full of anger?
I have no anger, just look at your posts on this thread, they are inane at best. If you have nothing to contribute why clog up the system with very poor attempts at being witty. Some people are good at providing a chuckle you just don't happen to be one of them. No offense but you are coming off as someone that is jealous, that others may have more information on this topic than you do.

In the shadows of City Hall (almost)
Hmmm... Think think think...

Well Niagara Square is pretty much accounted for with the new Courthouse going up soon.

So that leaves the backside of City Hall on S. Elmwood.... How about the Corn Exchange bldg that had hotel proposals last year? Is that it?

Or possibly there's some parking lots behind city hall? There are probably many small buildings in that block too that could easily be bought out to make room for something big. I wonder though if the city would really want a huge skyscraper right next to city hall? I thought anything right next to city hall had to be shorter...

I wouldn't mind seeing something tall behind City Hall, however, I wouldn't want it to block the view of City Hall from the Erie Basin Marina. I think that's one of those things you don't change, it's too classic.

^^^^^
Morning Shadows or Evening?


Mid-day or so?

Anyone remember the Statler garage?

Anyone remember the Statler garage?
I don't actually remember the garage, but isn't that the site where the new Federal Building is now?

Issa has the Dulski!

thats my guess

Also, a lady I talked to who has worked for HSBC/Marine Midland for 30 years sas that there used to be a restaurant on the top floor. When was this?
I don't know about their cafeteria but it was great to hear that they were voted one of the ten best places for working mothers to work.

The cafeteria for employees in the lobby is fantastic (and cheap)!

As for working mothers, it doesn't surprise me. There's even a kindergarten academy located in the atrium.

In the 70's and early 80', my dad worked for IBM when they were in what was then the Marine Midland building- they had the top few floors. I remember going to visit him and going to a place to eat on the top of the building when I was maybe 8-9. I would think it would be a cool place for a restuarant today, but probably not too practical.

yea there used to be a restaurant there. The name escapes me. :scouserd:

Plaza Suite? Was that the name of the restaurant? Or was that one on top of M&T?

Plaza Suite was atop One M&T Plaza and for many years featured a dinner theatre.

Statler owner ready to build
Business First of Buffalo - 3:05 PM EDT Tuesdayby James FinkBusiness First

The downtown Buffalo landscape could see a dramatic change with the new owner of the Statler Towers proposing to construct a 48-story mixed-use tower along Elmwood Avenue.

Plans for the $361 million, privately-financed project are expected to be announced at a news conference, set for Wednesday morning. The tower will be the tallest in downtown both in terms of number of floors and square footage -- potentially 1.3 million square feet.

The building is proposed for a parcel at the corner of Mohawk Street and Elmwood Avenue that is currently used as a surface parking lot.

Bashar Issa, the Manchester, England businessman who earlier this year acquired the historic Statler Towers and is in the early stages of an $80 million restoration of the Delaware Avenue landmark, said he hopes to start construction on the tower within the next two years. The tower will top the HSBC Center by as much as 10 floors.

"We want this building to be a beacon for downtown Buffalo," Issa said.

The project is the latest in a series of developments either planned or underway for the Delaware Avenue spine in downtown Buffalo. Delaware Avenue projects include the new corporate headquarters for New Era Cap Co. Inc., which is expected to open later this fall; a 120,000-square-foot multi-tenant building that Uniland Development Co. is constructing next to WGRZ-TV; a redevelopment of the Dulski Federal Office Building by Uniland and Acquest Development and a new federal courthouse that overlooks Niagara Square.

"This past year has seen an amazing amount of investment and development in downtown Buffalo, notably Delaware Avenue," said Mayor Byron Brown.

The 1.3 million square foot project will include a mix of Class A office space, a 300-room hotel and upscale condominiums.

George Hamberger, a broker with RealtyUSA Commercial Real Estate and Issa's local real estate specialist, said he has tentative contracts for 100,000-square-feet of the proposed 600,000-square-feet of office space.

Hamberger said he will be reaching out to non-local firms to help fill the building's tenant roster.

"Our focus is on new jobs and new tenants for Buffalo and not stealing tenants from other (downtown) buildings," he said.

Construction won't start until the building is at least 40 percent pre-leased, either with office tenants, condo buyers or a hotel chain in hand. Any combination of tenants that brings it to the 40 percent mark will trigger the construction, Issa said.

The dramatic building, with a tinted glass skin, is being designed by Cannon Design of Grand Island. It is designed to play off the planned new federal courthouse, which will virtually neighbor the tower.

Issa has already reviewed his project with Mayor Byron Brown and top members of his administration. Formal plans for the project will likely be filed with Buffalo planners within the next few weeks.

"This underscores how attractive downtown Buffalo is, right now, for investors and developers, whether they are local or from out-of-town," Brown said.

Take that Susie:cheers1: :omg: :rofl: :nuts: very good day fo Buffalo! Since it is all pirvate cash, there is a good chance this will get built right? plus its not like there are anyone living around there, so noone can say "it block my view!"

privately-financed too... how bout that

Take that Susie:cheers1: :omg: :rofl: :nuts: very good day fo Buffalo!

I didn't say something like that could not happen in Buffalo, it's here in Rochester where it can't happen. You are on your way up while we are still heading down. Plus as I have stated and backed up with the link below your city is in a different league than mine. You Urban Area according to the US Census Bureau has 40% more people than Rochester which makes a project like the 48 story condo building possible. We are just too small for such a project not that you are better, just significantly bigger.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-context=dt&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=ACS_2005_EST_G2000_B01001&-tree_id=305&-redoLog=true&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=40000US11350&-geo_id=40000US75664&-geo_id=40000US86302&-search_results=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en

I don't see why Buffalo being a larger city has anything to do with anything, it's an exciting announcment try not to make it into a Rochester v Buffalo thread again!

she isn't really...just saying that while Buffalo is larger both city and metro...its dive recovery has happened...while Rochesters dive is still ongoing.

I agree Susie

she isn't really...just saying that while Buffalo is larger both city and metro...its dive recovery has happened...while Rochesters dive is still ongoing.

I agree Susie

Thank you for getting it as I intended it and not becoming defensive about Rochester's size. Take it from a gal, size does not matter.

lol.

I really hope this tower happens.

Sources say the tower will be 40 stories, Biz First is off a bit.

48 floors counting basements and underground parking from what I understand.

the voices in my head tell me alot, and with this they are saying 11 floors and a fancy spire. :evil:

the voices in my head tell me alot, and with this they are saying 11 floors and a fancy spire. :evil:


eleven floors with a 31 story antenna?

Here ya' go.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/916/1025a1issany9.jpg

:grouphug:

I wanna see a Fort Erie rendering. Something showing the 'fat' side of the building and it's relationship/context with everything else

Here is an interesting tid-bit. IF this building gets completed at its current height of 187-188 meters tall we would leap frog the following cities in terms of the city's tallest building. These cities currently have atleast one building taller than HSBC Tower but not taller than the proposed BSC/Issa Tower. Making our proposed new tower taller than anything in the following cities that currently have something taller than Buffalo:

- Louisville
- San Antonio (minus that lookout tower thing)
- Portland
- Baltimore
- Tampa
- Cincinnati
- Albany, NY
- St. Louis
- Milwaukee
- Hartford
- Nashville (Tie)
- Jacksonville (Tie)

Congratulations, guys :okay: I am glad to hear that Buffalo is getting such a large project.

Albany does not belong on that list. It's like the "Sesame Street: Which one doesn't belong with the others?" bit. All those other cities are alpha cities within their own regions; Albany however is not. A massive concrete monument to government is all it is.

I say if this gets built, we take the Corning Tower and move it to Rochester. Unless of course they don't want it. Which is entirely possible and understandable.

I wanna see a Fort Erie rendering. Something showing the 'fat' side of the building and it's relationship/context with everything else
http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/103/01jh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This image is off a bit IMO- I don't think it is going to look this bulky- the lot isn't that wide.

This image is off a bit IMO- I don't think it is going to look this bulky- the lot isn't that wide.

IMO it looks like the building should be turned maybe 5 or 10 degrees counter-clockwise to account for the angle the pic is taken at...this should account for the fattness from this angle...I also think it needs to be a good 10% taller to account for its 85 foot height difference with HSBC Tower and depth perception (BSC/Issa being a lot closer to the cameraman than HSBC is).

^^ I agree, exactly as I stated in the Dev thread.

yeah, you should also be able to see the north side of the building a little bit if it was turned appropriately, like you can see it on all the buildings (notably Statler, City Hall, HSBC).

I say if this gets built, we take the Corning Tower and move it to Rochester. Unless of course they don't want it. Which is entirely possible and understandable.

And maybe Albany can rebuild those neighborhoods of row-houses they demolished to make way for our capital's Stalinistic Empire State Plaza.

^^^^^^^^^^
Speaking of Albany, how come there are no development news on SSC or pics or anyone from Albany here? Is it because they are unwanted?Sorry didnt mean to change the subject.

^ I would actually be very much for having an Albany thread. I just don't think there is anyone currently on here that is from Albany. I follow a little of what goes on there only cuz that's where I went to college and am familiar with the city.

If you look at the pic showing the model of the new building and Niagara Square, the new tower looks to be about as wide as City Hall or a little less. If you look at the shot from Lake Erie it looks wider than City Hall...more evidence that that rendering is just a little off.

^^^^^
Its cool, its just a rendering. Give then time to make some real pictures and drawings.

cannon.....boo

Tallest city building proposed

40-story office-hotel structure also would be most expensive

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
10/25/2006

Click to view larger picture
Sketch by Cannon Design shows proposed building, which, at 600 feet, would be Buffalo's tallest.

The British developer who recently bought the faded Statler Towers wants to construct what would be Buffalo's tallest, most expensive building.

Bashar Issa, of Manchester, England, confirmed Tuesday he wants to build a 40-story, 1.2-million-square-foot skyscraper at the corner of South Elmwood Avenue and West Mohawk Street, one block north of City Hall.

At 600 feet tall, the $361 million, ultra-contemporary glass and steel office, hotel and condo tower would eclipse the HSBC Center in height by 33 feet and would rank among the tallest buildings between New York City and Chicago.

"It will give new hope to Buffalo. It will be a symbol of rebirth for those who live and work here and to those outside the region that this is a city on the rise," Issa said.

The developer, who has just embarked on an $80 million makeover of the historic Statler building, said he's not banking on any public funds for the most expensive building ever proposed for Buffalo.

"We plan to privately finance it. I believe projects should work without public money, and if it comes, that's a bonus," Issa said.

While Buffalo has a long history of dramatic development projects that have never seen the light of day, those connected with Issa's proposal say he has the resources to get the building constructed.

The building, designed by Grand Island-based Cannon Design, would include 500,000 square feet of office space spread over 20 floors, topped by a 10-story, 300-room luxury hotel. The top 10 floors would house about 80 condominiums priced at $500,000 and up. The tower also incorporates interior parking space for more than 800 vehicles.

Cannon's Harry L. Warren, the project's lead architect, said he drew his inspiration for the translucent tower from winter scenes at Niagara Falls.

"It's evocative of a frozen waterfall. It's crystalline and faceted," Warren said. "Because you'll be able to see through it, it will be light and airy, touching lightly on the landscape."

Another unusual design feature is metal lattice work that will cover three sides of the glass facade, working to deflect glare both outside and inside the building.

"It is rather like a bride's veil. You can see her face, but you also see the diaphanous screen. It's very intriguing," Warren said.

The decidedly contemporary design received positive reviews from a group of local architects who were briefed on the project earlier this week. John Laping, of Kideney Architects, who also serves as chairman of the Buffalo Preservation Board, said Buffalo is the perfect location for the distinctive structure.

"We didn't have anything like the Guaranty Building when it was built. The Darwin Martin house design was a one-of-kind," Laping said. "Those are architectural icons we've learned to love. I don't know why we can't love a beautiful glass tower, too."

The new building, to be located on what is now a surface parking lot, would be built to the rear of the new federal courthouse. That planned 10-story, semi-elliptical building also relies heavily on glass and light in its modernistic design.

At $361 million, the mixed-use tower surpasses the price tag of all other downtown buildings. By comparison, the HSBC Center, built in 1972, sold last year for $85 million and currently is back on the market at $121 million.

Cannon, whose portfolio has buildings across Western New York and around the world, was thrilled to take on Issa's challenge to design a signature skyscraper for downtown Buffalo.

"This is very special for us, professionally and personally. Not only is it the tallest building we've ever done, it's for our own community," Warren said.

Issa said he hopes to start construction by the end of 2008, with the first tenants in place in 2010.

"The starting time will depend on how long it takes to get through the design process and preleasing. We'd like to have it at least 40 percent leased when we begin," he said.

Cannon has signaled interest in moving its headquarters from Grand Island to the new building, which would bring about 200workers downtown.

George Hamberger, from
RealtyUSA, who is representing Issa in his Buffalo projects, said he will be focusing on luring businesses from New York and Toronto to build a tenant base for the signature building.

"I see it as a carrot to bring some new blood to the market. For so long we were robbing from Peter to pay Paul to fill space downtown, but we're now attracting new businesses, and this will aid that cause," Hamberger said.

Mayor Byron W. Brown also sees the proposed tower as a symbol of changing economic times for the city.

"Over the past year, we've seen tremendous investment citywide, and particularly in downtown. These types of proposals reinforce the value and benefit of investing in Buffalo," Brown said, calling the design "bold and exciting."

Issa's project also has captured the interest of competing Buffalo developers, like Amherst's Uniland Development Co., with two nearby projects. "It's encouraging to see out-of-town interest in a project that would further the progress already under way in building a vital downtown core," said Uniland's Michael Montante.


from today's news

not that bad...coulda been some firm that designs Tim Hortons or something.

i'm just not a fan... of course i work for the competition...

its nice that a regional entity do the design...but with the money issa has it would have been cool to see about getting a few proposals or something... or maybe even an upper tier high rise design firm....would SOM dabble in buffalo again? although there are definitely better designers out there now anywho...

Nice rendering! This is a very exciting development for beautiful Buffalo. I'm so happy! :)

Here is an interesting tid-bit. IF this building gets completed at its current height of 187-188 meters tall we would leap frog the following cities in terms of the city's tallest building. These cities currently have atleast one building taller than HSBC Tower but not taller than the proposed BSC/Issa Tower. Making our proposed new tower taller than anything in the following cities that currently have something taller than Buffalo:

- Louisville
- San Antonio (minus that lookout tower thing)
- Portland
- Baltimore
- Tampa
- Cincinnati
- Albany, NY
- St. Louis
- Milwaukee
- Hartford
- Nashville (Tie)
- Jacksonville (Tie)

Interestingly, many of the cities on this list currently have proposals that will taller than Buffalo's new tallest.

Louisville has that bizarre 60-story or so tower that looks like a bunch of demented legos.
Baltimore has a bunch of proposed towers taller than the new Buffalo one.
Cincinnati has proposed Queen City Square... which I think is supposed to be in the 630 ft. range... but this project has been struggling to find tenents.
Nashville has a proposed 1000-footer... yes... a 1000-footer... absurd.

The new Buffalo building wouldn't exactly rank as one of the tallest buildings between NYC and Chicago as stated by the article. I'm not exactly how the north/south extent of "between NYC and Chicago" is defined... but I'll just keep this to the area between Toronto and DC.. the North... so no Atlantas or Charlottes

Buildings over 600 ft. "between NYC and Chicago":

Jersey City: 1
Philadelphia: 6 (including U/C Comcast at 975 ft.)
Pittsburgh: 5
Toronto: 6
Cleveland: 3
Columbus: 1
Detroit: 2
Indianapolis: 1

So the Buffalo building would rank 26th when stacked against Completed and U/C buildilngs between NYC and Chicago.

^ I just made up that list from emporis earlier today...I didn't take into account proposed towers, because more times than not they never get built. Thanks for the fact check tho, your post was very informative. When the article says "between NYC and Chicago"...they usually don't include Toronto just because it isn't in the USA. It would be like including Havana, or Brasilia, or some other international city between NYC an Chi.

Well this building is supposed to be 615 feet (187 meters)...after subtracting out Toronto, and subtracting out buildings between 600 and 614 feet in those other American cities where does that leave us? somewhere between 14th and 20th i presume?

How is Philly more "in between NYC and Chicago" than Columbus and Indy? They're all at the same latitude. And how is Buffalo more "in between" NYC and Chicago than Columbus or Indy or Detroit? Columbus, Indy and Detroit are all closer to I-80... which directly connects NYC with Chicago... than Buffalo.

who the hell cares...nice building, nice height.

I think the important projects are the ones that are not skyscrapers, but midrises in Buffalo...so many empty lots need to be filled, or are being filled.

density is what makes a fine CBD...not height.

who the hell cares...nice building, nice height.

I think the important projects are the ones that are not skyscrapers, but midrises in Buffalo...so many empty lots need to be filled, or are being filled.

density is what makes a fine CBD...not height.

Agreed, I'll take the dense low-rise urban fabric of say... Annapolis, MD over the "towers in isolation" of Atlanta.

dont get me worng...height is okay for status once a city has a healthy base...Pittsburgh, NYC, San Fran, and Boston are great examples.

Atlanta looks silly, same with Charlotte...why...you go from several dozen story skyscrapers to suburban homes in 2 blocks distance.

the balance between density and height while fading into the outlying areas around the CBD is what makes a city look good. IMO

^ Agreed. When I was in Charlotte earlier this year, the downtown was like an overgrown office park- there was zero density. You leave the downtown on one side and enter some bizarre no mans land with a few houses and old buisnesses and then it gets really rural rapidly. Atlanta is improving steadily, though. I think they are doing a much better job of filling in that city. I wouldn't even put Charlotte and Atlanta in the same category.

Not to slander Charlotte, totally- they have some great skyscrapers. The BofA is one of my favorites and they have some good condo projects going up to help fill in the downtown.

i'm just not a fan... of course i work for the competition...

its nice that a regional entity do the design...but with the money issa has it would have been cool to see about getting a few proposals or something... or maybe even an upper tier high rise design firm....would SOM dabble in buffalo again? although there are definitely better designers out there now anywho...
I am not sure why you would refer to Cannon as a regional firm. They are the 11th largest in the US and 17th largest in the world. Their HQ is on Grand Island (for now) but they have offices worldwide.

http://cannondesign.com/start_frameset.htm

Click on News, then click Our Firm, then click on rankings.

dont get me worng...height is okay for status once a city has a healthy base...Pittsburgh, NYC, San Fran, and Boston are great examples.

Atlanta looks silly, same with Charlotte...why...you go from several dozen story skyscrapers to suburban homes in 2 blocks distance.

the balance between density and height while fading into the outlying areas around the CBD is what makes a city look good. IMO

Um, you go from skyscrapers to suburban homes in two blocks in Buffalo as well!

I think John Portman should have designed this new tower.

RENCEN'D!

Um, you go from skyscrapers to suburban homes in two blocks in Buffalo as well!

I think John Portman should have designed this new tower.

RENCEN'D!

where?

Near the Dulski Building quickly comes to mind.

I am not sure why you would refer to Cannon as a regional firm. They are the 11th largest in the US and 17th largest in the world. Their HQ is on Grand Island (for now) but they have offices worldwide.

http://cannondesign.com/start_frameset.htm

Click on News, then click Our Firm, then click on rankings.

i'm well aware of their size and international presence and even sent them a resume out of school...

but the fact is they are only involved in this project due to their proximity and not to their high profile as high rise designers...being large and profitable doesn't always equal being great or the best at any given project...

some of the most iconic buildings out there originated in offices of a dozen or so people...

also notice where they are ranked highest... healthcare... do you want a signature high rise development done by a bunch of hospital architects... i know i wouldn't

all criticism aside ultimately i'm happy a local firm got the work...at least they will be sure to understand the importance of this building to the city...i just hope they don't have shutters on

Near the Dulski Building quickly comes to mind.

That's all urban neighborhoods integrated into downtown...there is a difference between what is near the Dulski and sprawling suburban housing developments. Having houses near downtown is not a negative thing.

Near the Dulski Building quickly comes to mind.

those are hardly suburban style homes...the West Village area has some very nice old classic home...together with the newer additions to that community they are a perfect blend from business district to neighborhood...go up a few blocks to Allentown and you have residential midrises mixed with older residential units to make a great transition.

The only thing I can think of that could be used are the infill suburban homes on the east side...but there are 4 or more blocks from the CBD to this area and there is plenty of transition development between the two.

In the case of the east side, the suburban development is actually improving the area in comparison to what is there now, so you cant peg Buffalo with that..

True, but the homes on Gennessee, William, et. al are pure suburban styled trash, which is what BuffCity said. So...

But that's what's built now. They don't build old victorians or anything like that anymore.

Sure, I think they suck and they're completely out of context. But in the absense of any other building styles, what else would they have built? I'm just happy they aren't those horrific new McMansions going up on a cul-de-sac near us all. Some of the just plain ugliest houses I have ever seen, even in a suburban setting.

If you want to talk abominations, how about some of those houses they build on Extreme Makeover. Some of those are, quite literally, sore thumbs. Nice houses in and of themselves, but they'd have better context being on the moon!

I dunno...there are other new building styles...look at Seattle or Baltimore, Buffalo is trying to get the east side rolling by making larger lots with driveways, yards and some room for a family (which is not the most horrible idea)

Townhomes would be nice...something a little more dense but at the same time...crime has to be isolated so that a developer would invest in this area.

and DT...it's GENESEE you southern Belle you :hammer:

But that's what's built now. They don't build old victorians or anything like that anymore.


Not true!

Come to Toronto, drive down Shuter street. The city will not approve any new building permit unless the style of the neighbourhood is preserved. They are building new bring victorians, very nice.. ill try and snap some shots and post them.

Thanks, it'll be nice to see something refreshing and...old...yet new.

Not true!

Come to Toronto, drive down Shuter street. The city will not approve any new building permit unless the style of the neighbourhood is preserved. They are building new bring victorians, very nice.. ill try and snap some shots and post them.

Ugh! Fake historic? I thought Toronto was above that! Very dissapointing to hear.

^ that's one thing I didn't like about the Adelphia building...it was designed to look like it was fake 1930s style. I still woulda taken it if they were gonna build it, but I don't like mocking old styles because some people are nostalgic, unless its built into some PoMo building.

TO looks very highrise from what I saw...although I was at Dundas and Younge...so...:ohno:

Time Warner already has a new headquarters...

http://www.bus.umich.edu/RossB-SchoolGift/img/Exterior-Taxi_lg.jpg

;)

time warner may have a headquarters in nyc, but since they've extended service to buffalo and surrounding areas after the adelphia fallout, it would be more feasible for them to extend themselves as an anchor in a skyscraper here as well.

Why? All they have are the operations centers outside of downtown and in Lancaster and the call center on the waterfront. There is need for them to have corporate office space in Buffalo.

I hate Time Warner. What a crappy company - they actually made me miss Comcast. They can rot in hell with the Rigas' for all I care.