Hi All
I know there's a thread for 22 Marsh Wall but I can't find it...this is the development on the Isle of Dogs next to the City Pride pub, which got planning permission a couple of months ago. It consists of (if my memory serves me well...) a 40 storey residential tower and a 25 storey tower. Web site link follows...

Anyway...the news! I went passed the site on the bus this morning and they have started to put hordings around the existing warehouses (which I actually quite like!) - looks like they might be getting ready for demolition and construction! This means, with Pan peninsula and crossharbur there will be 3 residential towers over 40 storeys rising on the island very soon...

Does anyone know more news?

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/

22 Marsh Wall
also known as "The Landmark"

Docklands E14

Height: 140m (tower one) and 98m (tower two)
Floors: 44 and 30
Architect: Squire and Partners
Developer: Redwell Investments

Links:
Official website (http://www.thelandmarke14.com)
SkyscraperNews.com listing (http://www.skyscrapernews.com/buildings.php?id=108)


Notes:
A pair of major new residential towers for the Docklands, located on the south-western edge of the cluster, near the Thames.
Completion is scheduled for 2008. They will be a short walk from the planned 3 million sq ft office development, Riverside South.
As of March 2007, more than a third of the 276 luxury apartments have been sold. Restaurants, cafes and shops will occupy
the ground and 1st floors, within a glass-covered piazza. A 24 hour concierge and resident's gymnasium are among the development's
many other features.



http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/22marshwall/1.jpg


http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/22marshwall/2.jpg


http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/10822MarshWallBlock2_pic1.jpg

I said they would start by the end of 2006. Nobody believed me ;)

This is excellent news. The towers aren't particularly exciting, but will certainly add to the Isle of Dogs cluster.

To start demolishing now is surely in line with the anticipated timeframe for it to begin, as per the website. Anyone??

I said they would start by the end of 2006. Nobody believed me ;)


I believed you! In fact I was surprised they had no already started. :)

Are you sure its the right site as there was a story in the wharf the other week about a pub being demolished in that area but it was established it was on a site nearby to the marsh wall site.

http://icthewharf.icnetwork.co.uk/thisweek/news/tm_objectid=17539416%26method=full%26siteid=71670%26headline=calling%2dtime%2dat%2dthe%2dheron%2d-name_page.html

If it is the Marsh Wall site then thats great news.

Are you sure its the right site as there was a story in the wharf the other week about a pub being demolished in that area but it was established it was on a site nearby to the marsh wall site.

http://icthewharf.icnetwork.co.uk/thisweek/news/tm_objectid=17539416%26method=full%26siteid=71670%26headline=calling%2dtime%2dat%2dthe%2dheron%2d-name_page.html

If it is the Marsh Wall site then thats great news.

It definately is the Marsh Wall site - the pub that's being demolished (the heron) is on a seperate site across the road - lots of activity...I like it!

139.5m high, according to http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/faq.html

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg9_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg7_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg8_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg1_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg2_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg6_gp.jpg

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg10_gp.jpg

awesome, so that makes 5 towers then really, two for marshwall, two for millharbour and one at cross harbour. Plus probably like a gazillion more mid like abilty place, elektron, churchill and all that noise. dense dude. dense.

plus, its wierd how small they look in models and renders, when really 140 meters is pretty damn high. or is it only me that thinks that they look a bit dumpy in the renders?

Nice density but they look like council blocks, only with glass. Cladding looks very poor in those renders.

Cladding looks very poor in those renders.
I don't think you can make an accurate judgement from those renders.

Is the smaller tower purely an office building then? These towers seem to fit in really well :cheers:

plus, its wierd how small they look in models and renders, when really 140 meters is pretty damn high. or is it only me that thinks that they look a bit dumpy in the renders?


I think it must be their close proximity to such large buildings dwarfing what would otherwise be huge

I seriously doubt they will build these in the near future.
As far as I know, the scheme is on the secondary market.

I have just checked this out:

The scheme WAS on the secondary market.

Redwell - the "developer" - has sold the freehold of 22 Marsh Wall to a private UK purchaser for £35.0 m.

Pagwilliams, you are then correct. Construction might well start soon as it is
no longer on the secondary market.

:banana:

:D

given the popularity of pan peninsula youd be stupid not to start marketing these. the person who bought the development will make a fortune as these things will sell like hotcakes. interestingly, the shorter the building in canary wharf area the longer flats in it take to sell, if you want to sell out then design and build tall. this lot plus pan peninsula will really establish canary wharf in the eyes of many.

This is beautiful news. I kept on ignoring this thread thinking it was a groundscraper. Shame on me.
Brilliant news. 147m sounds like a brilliant height. As Gothic said, they will indeed sell like hotcakes. However, simply judging from what i've seen i'd rather live in Pan Peninsula than the Marsh Wall's ;) (Someone give me the money first! :eek: )

Looks like i'll be reporting on these tomarrow too. Does anyone know where abouts they are in relation to One Canada Square. Is it near Pan Peninsula at all? (I'll take piccies tomarrow if I can find it)

Cheerio!

^^ it's 139.5, which is still good, check this pic for location, just south of the RS site, and its only a few hundred meters west of PP.

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg8_gp.jpg

^^ it's 139.5, which is still good, check this pic for location, just south of the RS site, and its only a few hundred meters west of PP.

http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/images/largimg8_gp.jpg


Thats right...PP is in the top right hand corner of above (and not immediatley obvious on this model)

Bearing in mind, this will appear much closer to the river than the rest of Canary Wharf, it should therefore be very prominent from the west and will have quite a major impact in this view -


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Canary.wharf.from.thames.arp.jpg/756px-Canary.wharf.from.thames.arp.jpg

Hi-res versions -



http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/22marshwall/2.jpg



http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/22marshwall/1.jpg

Blimey...... I drove past only the other day and remarked to my Missus that to big resis were earmarked for the site.... but nothing visable was going on .. sounds like bloody good news :D

Will be so dense on around there in a few years.

The whole site is now hoarded off (went passed this morning) - old warehouses and 70's warehouses - this is definately happening! Yay!

Pics please. :)

A little render I whipped up:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/998/firstrenderyv3.jpg

Whe hey looks good

Mulatto i've just realised the render I did isn't accurate. It should be further right. Approximately where the diagnoal slope on the building starts as shown in this image:
http://www.willfox.com/images2/skyscrapers2/22marshwall/1.jpg

I'll sort it out now.

I've done it.

New:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/830/firstrender2ms3.jpg

Pan Peninsula should cover that gap in between the Marsh Wall towers and the other two towers at similar height. Riverside South would be great from this view.
I'll add Pan Peninsula in there too, soon :)

We need some towers to the left of HSBC to stretch the cluster a little more...isn't that where Columbus would've been? :cry:

^ Yeah think so,quite close to HSBC in the left to right axis, but more in front of 1 CS on the front back axis.
OK scrap that decription.
Yes is my answer.

I amnot convinced that hye will be a blue as the render suggests...any chance of washing some of the blue out of the render to make it greyish?

Better?
http://i6.tinypic.com/25tg976.jpg

Yes, there is considerable development ptential on the left-h-side, what with crossrail located on that side'n'all. I've always thought it'd be very profitable to lower and deck-over Aspen way (and around to Westferry circus just for enviromental improvement and not just to be neat-and-complete). The decked over area could be like the central 'strip' in CW - with access at grade too - but considerably wider. Maybe a series of squares and parks like the ones in CW.

Did anyone see the Estates Gazette article all about City Airport ? Ken L's view seems to be that it's served it's purpose and with Crossrail is superfluous. Also that the land is worth far more as resi/mixed redevelopment - which is certainly the case. Of course this would mean that current height restrictions in all directions around the wharf get dumped ;o) Now we would then just need a Maglev up to Stansted/Cambs and down to Gatwick/Brighton, ho hum ... that'd tie everything together nicely.

Back on subject ... as I was saying, sink and deck Aspen way and build-out with proper streets and frontages and CW area has enough office/retail/residential land for 20 more years - remove the height limiting factor (at least compared to what exists now) and it'd get *really interesting*.

Oh yeah, Marshwall could be a bit higher. Wouldn't be surprised if the developer went for an extra 3-4 floors - cream on the cake profit-wise at it were.

I have to say I like this project, but have been starved of news for quite some time. Hopefully we'll have some photographic proof, and we'll have another official construction thread in the not too distant future!

Did anyone see the Estates Gazette article all about City Airport ? Ken L's view seems to be that it's served it's purpose and with Crossrail is superfluous. Also that the land is worth far more as resi/mixed redevelopment - which is certainly the case. Of course this would mean that current height restrictions in all directions around the wharf get dumped ;o)
That is very interesting indeed, and once again I admire Ken's vision.

Remember, the airport is only worth £300m - relatively speaking, that's a tiny sum when you consider that a single midrise in the Docklands is probably worth this amount.

Closing the airport would almost certainly lead to a string of incredibly tall towers being constructed in the Docklands. We'd see residential towers of 100+ storeys. The developers would stand to make an absolute fortune from all those luxury flats.

In the long term, this will surely happen... it's almost inevitable I would say.

so, potentially, when could it be closed, after the completion of Crossrail I assume?

yeah... around then. with the success of the area these days, city airport costs a lot more to londons economy than it contributes. simple as that really.

Has anyone read the recent Masterplan proposals (http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/planning_decisions/strategic_dev/2006/20060705/london_city_airport_report.pdf) for London City Airport? Interesting, though slightly ambiguous conclusions.

I seriously hope it just closes and new, bigger towers are constructed on the land. It is a perfect area for tall buildings.

Better?
http://i6.tinypic.com/25tg976.jpg

Almost there...perhaps just a little less grey (seriously, much appreciated guys)

We need a rendering with Marsh Wall, Pan Peninsula, Crossharbour, Ability Place and the new Churchill Place buildings... now that would be cool. :)

We need a rendering with Marsh Wall, Pan Peninsula, Crossharbour, Ability Place and the new Churchill Place buildings... now that would be cool. :)

I'm working on it, whilst Jake the Peg nicks and alters my render!!! :bash: ( :jk: )

Edit: Will, the Churchill buildings will not be in view as it'll be covered by the Credit Swiss Building.

London City Airport ain't going nowhere. It's going to grow if anything!

Yeah, I hear LCY are aiming for 8m passengers per year by 2030.

Originally posted by wjfox2002

We'd see residential towers of 100+ storeys.

100 floor towers (cough bollox) in London, hahahahaha!

I'd say even 60floors is pushing the boudary - far.

The we'd in his sentence means that should the circumstances be right ie LCA is no more we could see that. And anyway, why not 100 storeys, developers have demonstrated 30+ can go in a matter of days, and the need for living spaces in CW is only going to rise as more and more high class workers go there.

London Bridge Tower already has a floor count of 87 if you include the plant floors.

Is it really so difficult to imagine hundred-storey buildings appearing in London...? And don't forget - you can pack far more floors into residential buildings than office buildings of the same height, due to the lower floor-to-ceiling heights.

It is beyond my understanding that some people try to make Will some sort of a fool.

Personnally, I believe his contribution is simply ... outstanding. That's clear.

Anyway: back to Marsh Wall with some simple 3D models to figure out placements etc. Note that chuchill place buildings are not accurately represented in these renderings. I have also removed ArrowHead Quays, Riverside South, and North Quay and South Quay (adjacent to Pan Peninsula, a revised pp has been submitted for 8 tower blocks up to 16 floors high, hope will be refused).

Note a old rendering of Ability Plc which is u/c (see SE9 excellent contributions) and Crossharbour with fantasy texture.

As pointed out by will, the Marsh Wall development has a strong impact on the skyline as viewed from the West.

Updated version with improved texture will soon follow:

here we go:

http://i7.tinypic.com/2620i7q.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/26219jk.jpg

there will be a new proposal for south quay in the next few weeks.

@ Jef
Great work! :) It's starting to look like a mini-Manhattan.


@James -
What are the height limits for South Quay?

^^ You can't just say that!!! you have to give us more info!!! please???

Also, wouldn't that barrets towers scheme fit in much better around marshwall or maybe even next to west india quay than where it's proposed for.

new plans for south quay, as in to replace riverside south? or is this something else? I dont get it!

If i remember right South Quay is to the south of the estate whilst Riverside South is to the west.

I'm looking forward to seeing South Quay.
Nice 3D renders Jef. Looking beautiful.

I tried adding Pan Peninsula to my render but can't because I cant find a suitable angle of PP. Same goes for riverside south too!

i dont know what the plans are, just the architect mentioned it a few weeks ago. i reckon we'll see a residential tower, not too high though but thats just guesswork. ive been prmised renders and so on when it goes public so youll all find out then.

I have also removed ArrowHead Quays, Riverside South, and North Quay and South Quay (adjacent to Pan Peninsula, a revised pp has been submitted for 8 tower blocks up to 16 floors high, hope will be refused).




Jef- What site alond South Quay is it?? Is it different to proposed towers on the site south of PanP that Mickey posted a few months back??

I fear the whole area of SOuth Quay could end up being a wasted oppotunity with more Discovery dock type developments instead of Pan P ones.

South quay is,according to Tower Hamlets MQ masterplan is where the highest allowed developments can go - You can easily get 40 st-50 stroey resi towers along this road - Why settle for 16 storey ones (particuarly if theres going to be 8 tower blocks- sounds like a very dense plot with I would suspect very little open space).

Whatever happend to the tall yellow Alsop tower from years back planned for quay house (BT building) on South Quay??

You can see it here, ive always thought it was strange. It looks completely out of place in CW from these renders though

http://i2.tinypic.com/262y51t.jpg

Yeah, i remember that, but what were all those towers north of and beyond barclays?

As said before, ken L is a man after our own hearts and buildings of 100 storeys plus are more or less guaranteed IF the airport is closed!

Great 3D Jef...I think Docklands looks like a city in its own right!

Well we already have two! City of Westminster and The City..lets have a third...City of Docklands The good, the Badand the Ugly...take your pick!

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/wharfmap.jpg

Yeah, i remember that, but what were all those towers north of and beyond barclays?

Billingsgate Estate. For when the Fish Market packs up shop.

South Quay is the site to the west of Pan Peninsula. Capital and Provident owns this site and they submitted a planning application years ago for an uninspiring mixed used development with the largest element about 100m high. The application is still pending but C&P recently announced they now plan to submit a revised planning application with the largest element 16 storeys high instead of 23 (i think). They plan min 8 blocks on this parcel. Shame.

Hopefully it is for this side of the decade. C&P will first build another L-shaped building at Discovery Dock East, similar to the existing one. Just to the North of Pan Peninsula.

Reg. the site between Pan Peninsula and Ability Plc, no planning application has been submitted asaik.

I think we'll look back at the South Quay/Millennium Quarter as being a bit of an architectural urban disaster to be frank. Too many plots, too many crammed in buildings, lack of open space and too much height for buildings so close together.

Revisions to the scheme have been submitted to TH:

Main changes:

- Increase in number of storeys within Block 1, from 27 to 30, within the existing consented enveloppe (reduction in floor to floor height from 3.2m to 2.9m)

- Increase in number of storeys within Block 2, from 40 to 44 (also within consented enveloppe, 139.4m AOD)

- Increase of family units and affordable apartments from 125 to 158.

- Additional children's play area

As a result, the total number of apartments within the scheme will increase from 691 to 802. Energy Report, etc. has been provided.

This is the site (found on TH website)


http://194.201.98.213/WAM/showCaseFile.do;jsessionid=3AEB8CB08A97A21C449883304CEA4311?action=show&appType=Planning&appNumber=PA/06/889

And this is/was the original application

http://www.epr.co.uk/architect_offices_south-quay_6,7,8.html

http://www.epr.co.uk/architect_masterplan_southquay.html

And compare it to the new proposals

http://194.201.98.213/WAM/doc/Current%20Plan-102535.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=102535&location=Volume3&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

It looks like they are decreasing the site of the Office & old residential elements from the first scheme (you can see the old scheme outlined )

http://194.201.98.213/WAM/doc/Current%20Plan-102538.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=102538&location=Volume3&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

Revisions to the scheme have been submitted to TH:

Main changes:

- Increase in number of storeys within Block 1, from 27 to 30, within the existing consented enveloppe (reduction in floor to floor height from 3.2m to 2.9m)

- Increase in number of storeys within Block 2, from 40 to 44 (also within consented enveloppe, 139.4m AOD)

- Increase of family units and affordable apartments from 125 to 158.

- Additional children's play area

As a result, the total number of apartments within the scheme will increase from 691 to 802. Energy Report, etc. has been provided.

If my maths is correct (with a calculator that does not work indoors!), then there is a 1.7% increase in affordable housing provision and a wapping 8.8% increase in flats for sale at regular price?

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/847/dsc07019ft4.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3021/dsc07013ue4.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7548/dsc07017gh9.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8937/dsc07015lm8.jpg

^^ :scouserd: :cheers: :drunk: :booze: :cheers1:

At last some photographic proof of imminent construction :)

What do you mean the first pic is blurry?..it looks perfectly clear to me! (after a heavy night of excess)

Thanks for the update

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/wharfmap.jpg

That looks amazing. How likely is it that we'll have something like this and what sort of time span do you think we'd be talking about?

i should finish this off....

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=10148615&postcount=47

Hi All

I went past the 22 Marsh Wall site this morning and one of the buildings has been demolished!

Construction soon...!

P

How many buildings were onsite anyway?

How many buildings were onsite anyway?

There was a depo which was used to distribute newspapers from the Westferry printers, and a row of old warehouses (which I quite liked actually - shame they couldn't incorporate them into the scheme!)

The site was totally built over, with no empty space - and they've demolished half of the depo so far - I expect it all to be gone by the time I get home!

Gothic, any idea when marketing will start?

none at all. tbh i havent inquired. i know someone at the architects so i should ask.

thanks.

any reason jef? i mean are you just curious, want to purchase or what? not that it matters.

Purchase? No. If I had to buy something in the area I would go for Ballymore.
I ask because i want to see yet more activity and as you are the best source of info to know what is going on.

ok jef, youre pretty helpful too. ill tell you what i find... agree about ballymore btw.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9487/dsc07359yt6.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1481/dsc07356ve1.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1511/dsc07360uw5.jpg

Awesome stuff SE9!

The site is full of asbestos.

^^ :doh:

Thanks for the updates SE9.

Can this be turned into an official thread, then?

Well, Crossharbour was an official thread when the London Arena was being demolished.

Hmm...that brick building seemed pretty nice.

Hmm...that brick building seemed pretty nice.


Yeh....(?)...a really sexy warehouse. So unique...we will all miss it so on this skyscraper site!

^^ :) I like old brick houses, it could have been transformed into something nice. I like the Marshwall towers very much though.

I have just put him on my ignore list also!

^^ :) I like old brick houses, it could have been transformed into something nice. I like the Marshwall towers very much though.

LOL Trust me! This is not a house, but a Warehouse or factory...Bog standard design of the 1920's/1940's Synonymous with run down areas, poverty and dirty industry. There are Many warehouses around the area that do need saving - and often are converted into prestigeous homes

Yup. Prestigious homes indeed are made from the warehouses.

I could be mistaken, Butlers Wharf development from Canary Wharf toward The City was made from old warehouses.

Yup. Prestigious homes indeed are made from the warehouses.

I could be mistaken, Butlers Wharf development from Canary Wharf toward The City was made from old warehouses.

Yes! I tell you one thing...I would never give up having a garden, but a warehouse conversion would be my greatest temptation!

great stuff - not the most exciting design, but another good blocky highrise in a prime site. Its probably a slightly better site than Pan Peninsular (abutting the DLR, although with the benefit of a waterside location), as I'd expect it has a much better view of the river and possibly across towards the city. Won't be surrounded by as many other high rises either.

Incidentally, the website has some good stuff, especially the list of contractors / agents and engineers already appointed, but who are the actual developers? I don't think its Ballymore (Pan Peninsular / Crossharbour).

Hello Jimbo :)

Couldn't link us to the site would you? :)

Edit: http://www.22marshwall.com/

Thanks anyway :)

Project team


Squire and Partners - Architect

Environ - Environmental Consultant

GVA Grimley - Planning Consultant

EC Harris - Project Manager & Quantity Surveyor

Arup - Structural and Services Engineer

FPD Savills - Residential and Commercial Consultant

Good Relations - Public Consultation


I see familiar names :)

the Canary Wharf skyline including Marsh Wall, Pan Peninsula, Ontario...the City future renderings are full of uncertainties but this is 100% guarenteed...

http://homepage.mac.com/benveasey/.Pictures/marshwall.jpg

We need an Ontario Tower on this bend of the river.

very nice work!

..yes if there was just one tower with a few curves and no flat roof it would elevate the quality of the skyline to a different level..

http://homepage.mac.com/benveasey/.Pictures/marshwall.jpg[/QUOTE]

that's an absolutely cracking image - this could be controversial - but wouldn't Columbus have seemed a little overbearing..... so close to the river I think it would have unbalanced the skyline a little. I like that 1CS is the clear focal point of the estate and outlying towers. In a way, I'm not sure I'd like to see anything taller than that, let the skyscrapers sort of radiate outwards from a central point? London City Airport probably puts pay to anything much taller I guess.

no i think taller would work, but from that view point it would have to be behind ocs, and designed appropriatly. the look of ocs in my opinion takes centre point anyway, and anything taller wouldnt steal attention away but if designed properly could even exagerate ocs. people always seem to think taller steals attention but it isnt true.

No, I think Colombus would have been perfect for such a location to help spread the estate so that we don't end up with a fairly low (by some world standards) pinnacle. Several peaks with smaller skyscrapers surrounding is an improvement on one with a mass of dense scrapers around it. Plus, the non-boxy nature of it would have done wonders for the estate but the fact it was slightly away from the main group wouldn't have made it look out of place. Big shame about Colombus.

Colombus would have looked a lot taller than even 1CS in that pic being closer. I still hang onto the hopw that somehow, someway someone will revive the project...Colombus is the biggest (literally) loss so far.

well remember columbus PLUS riverside south...

Columbus and Riverside South turned was is a ^ shaped skyline into a v shaped skyline.

If Columbus had started construction when it was supposed to (back in late 2004/early 2005) instead of being cancalled then it would have topped out by now. :(

and would have to be demolished to make way for Crossrail :lol:

One thing I could never work out with Columbus was they knew Xrail was going to go under the building (they even had it on their plans) so surely they could have built it. They would need extra strong foundations for Xrail whether it was built before or after the tunnel.When Moorhouse was built it had foundations to incorporate Xrail & the new station.

I think there were some issues regarding tunnels alignment.
To go ahead with the scheme, the developer of Columbus
would have required the insurance that tunnels plans would not
be modified. It has apparently not received this garantee.
Indeed, and as you know, Xrail has recently submitted fundamentally
revised proposals for the isle of dogs, and further revisions may
be in the pipeline to reduce building cost.

well remember columbus PLUS riverside south...


HHmm? Am I dreaming or is that a hint of intrigue? Should we:

1 Remember them becuse they are deceased..or

2 Remember them because you suspect a revival?

neither. i was simply speculating that columbus will not be alone and riverside south will be there too.

neither. i was simply speculating that columbus will not be alone and riverside south will be there too.

Oh well ...I peeked too soon :(

http://simonward.com/build/large/dockdev/sunset.jpg

yes... like that

Thought I'd wake this one up...

Visited the 22 Marsh Wall Site today and as you can see demolition of the buildings on the site is now almost complete. I had a chat with one of the workers on site and was told that demolition is expected to be complete by mid December with construction starting "very soon" after the demolition crews have left. Anyway...here are the pics:



http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p25/nebubub/mw2.jpg



http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p25/nebubub/mw3.jpg



http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p25/nebubub/mw1.jpg



Could be going up quite soon...



Matt

To think, this, Pan Peninsula and Riverside south should all be rising in the area next year expanding the CW cluster greatly.

That's towers of:

214m
189m
147m
137m
122m

5 100m+ towers at once!!!

Will this be the biggest high-rise construction period since CW began?

Then we have 131m Crossharbour that should start once the lowrise portion is complete, and we should get the 120-140m East India Dock Road and the 120-140m New providence Wharf tower proposed properly, not to mention the Wood Wharf development that looks like it could have three towers itself, that should also be proposed next year!

Does anyone know what will start after RS, because if that has alot of interest and gets some pre lets, we could have Wood wharf or North Quay starting in 2008

^^ I was under the impression that it was North Quay next after RS, there was that new render a few months back.

Also the second tower at 22MW is only just under 100m.

yes, it is NQ after RS. And Heron Quay West after NQ. But CW does not have pp for Heron Quays West. It is earmarked for 2015. Afterwards, they will redevelop the western part of the land next to NQ where the fish market is. This site has just been earmarked for skyscrapers by LBTH.
Matt, you should have never left the forum!

Sorry, LBTH???

London Borough of Tower Hamlets.

^^ That did cross my mind, but i thought it may have been an abbreviation of an architects name... :doh:

yes, it is NQ after RS. And Heron Quay West after NQ. But CW does not have pp for Heron Quays West. It is earmarked for 2015. Afterwards, they will redevelop the western part of the land next to NQ where the fish market is. This site has just been earmarked for skyscrapers by LBTH.

I hope the plot after HQW will be able to go higher than 1CS. By then we will need a new pinnacle for CW. The same goes for the Columbus site, I expect that will be redeveloped around that time too, if not earlier.

I hope the plot after HQW will be able to go higher than 1CS. By then we will need a new pinnacle for CW. The same goes for the Columbus site.

Never. Ruled out by LBTH.

not true quite true jef. columbus is actually taller than 1cs by 2 metres.

Columbus is not built/I understand LBTH want to change the rules, I refer to the LBTH development plan document , submitted earlier this month to the Secretary of State:

http://i7.tinypic.com/4brnr5i.jpg

i wll ask the head of planning at LBTH on monday as i know him :)

The LBTH development plan was drawn up after Columbus was designed I believe.

Yes, it has been released a few weeks ago!
Link:http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/data/planning/data/planning-policy/downloads/aap/hr/iod.pdf

as we are talking about Columbus, really sad was not built. herebelow a pic taken from hsbc with Hertsmere House in the background. I really hope something as good as Columbus will be eventually built over there/

http://i10.tinypic.com/3z09do8.jpg

Does anyone know if West Inadia Quay station will be rebuilt to connect to North Quay when it is built?

I'd image they'd do a Heron Quays job on it. Isn't it going to have to be rebuilt anyway to accomodate the new, longer, trains or was it one of the ones thatw as built for 3 car DLR in the first place? I know it has a long platform but not sure how long.

I'm sure I've been in a 3-car DLR train at West India Quay and there were no problems there.

Not much chance of anything taller than 1Cs in the T.Hamlets part of CW then?

No.

Never. Ruled out by LBTH.

The rules could be changed in the future though. We may not get one for a while, but one day we could. I wouldn't say never.

Personnally, I agree with the vision of LBTH, at least re. the CW district,
with 1CS the tallest and height progressively reducing through the periphery.

Personnally, I agree with the vision of LBTH, at least re. the CW district,
with 1CS the tallest and height progressively reducing through the periphery.

I agree but it needs to be more dramatic. Canary Wharf is in very close danger to becoming a wall of same height skyscrapers from a distance.

That's true.

I agree but it needs to be more dramatic. Canary Wharf is in very close danger to becoming a wall of same height skyscrapers from a distance.

I would say it already is- Just look at Bank St. I dont get TH's fascination with 1CS being a pinnalce & their MQ masterplan on the Isle of Dogs. It will end up looking quite blocky & stumpy. You can already see it in the isle of dogs with every plot getting maxed out with blocky developments using up every avaliable bit of land that the developers own.

imagine it instead with the cancelled projects of 22 marshwall, alsops south quay development and the original 1 millharbour. just imagine what it would look... pretty damn good!

imagine it instead with the cancelled projects of 22 marshwall, alsops south quay development and the original 1 millharbour. just imagine what it would look... pretty damn good!

Yep- shame. The Isle of Dogs could've been a major rival/compliment to CW. Stupid TH & there misquided height policy. I'd add the Shepperd Ronson Glengall Bridge proposal as well as I would be amazed if TH allowed that to happen & also the original 5 tower Crossharbour scheme.

Do you know anything on the Quay house BTW now that Delancy & Galliard homes have made it a J/V???

I totally agree. Political interventionism - as reflected in these Masterplans -leads to poor results.

Take another example: The site south of Pan Peninsula. The Masterplan indicates the developer must propose a building with footprint of 60m.

In other words, say goodbye to a possible tower with large open public space. We will end up again with a dull groundscaper. Look also at the hideous southern part of the Crossharbour development.

Ken understood that it is better to leave it up to the market to decide. It relaxed the rules in the City and now we have proposals such as Leadenhall, Shard, Bishopsgate, etc. But LBTH still resist the market forces. They believe they know better than everybody else what we need.

Ken is no fan of unreined capitalism..however, like you and me he is a huge fan of skyscrapers..there is something about being in control of a city , but more so when it contains astonishing towers!

I agree with the Status quo that capitalism has to be tamed ..or there would be towers completely out of proportion and as cheap as can be with no intrastructure at all (that is why no underground was built here for such a long time...it was too expensive...hence the light railway..nobody wanted to pay un-necessary money for just lowly workers to get to work..they doas they are told..soooo primstive) That is why contracts have to be written in to involve local people, otherwise the site would be loathed to allow even a local cleaner in.

I think somehow LBTH think that if they keep a finger in the constuction, they will fulfill their purpose and spread more successfully the hugh amount of wealth being generated.. they seem to be failing in that sometimes as far as I understand...I definately agree they would be better off insisting on infrustructure, housing and training payments as with developments elsewhere in London.

We would have a civil war on our hands by now if money was allowed to have a free hand....a bit like parts of the USA!

Do TH have any say over the size of a scraper on HQW? If so, I still think that will be the best place for a CS1 beater.

Demolition complete...Does anyone know if construction will start immediately?

This aerial taken yesterday shows the site:

http://i11.tinypic.com/2utjl7d.jpg

This project has moved along quite swifty. Perhaps because they're just more boxes it hasn't caused much excitement. But it's obvious from it's location that it's going to have a huge impact on the Isle of Dogs skyline when viewed from the west.
I guess it will be rising more or less at the same time as riverside south too.

I'd think it'll be on it's way a couple of months before RS.

This will surely begin construction now. Why on earth would they wait around? This might as well become an official thread.

Btw, it looks like their website is being updated -
http://www.22marshwall.co.uk/

The developer is waiting for the full pp to increase the number of floors to 44 (height unchanged).

True..they would have to reduce every floor by a few inches...

Yes.
They have re-submitted pa. last week.

That still means they can carry on with the groundwork though doesn't it?

Yes. Basically height floor is reduced to increase the total number of floors (and flats) within the consented enveloppe.

Shame they didn't keep the floor heights, it would have been 150m.

All gone. More or less.

http://static.flickr.com/120/313061498_e5d3929ef3_b.jpg

^^ Good updates tonight DarJoLe.

Im looking forward to this one, it will be a solidly good addition to the CW skyline.

Article in The Times about the MarsWall Development.

Sorry but I've lost the link. It can be found, I think in "My Home".
Hopefully, I have a copy.

Green homes at Canary Wharf
Andrew Riley

If you want to get a massive housing development past the planners these days, you’ve got to ensure your scheme is carbon-conscious. Four new towers soon to rise in the shadow of Canary Wharf are set to use a biomass heating plant (deemed a renewable energy source because it uses wood) as well as solar water-heating panels that cover 8,000 sq ft. Both measures will help to reduce the CO2 emissions of the scheme.

Nearly 700 apartments, including at least 125 affordable homes, will be created on the 2¼-acre brownfield site at 22 Marsh Wall. The biggest tower will be 40 storeys and 460ft high; the adjacent block is 27 storeys. The other two are each eight storeys; their roofs will be planted for insulation and to provide nest sites for black redstarts. The scheme covers nearly 100,000 sq ft and includes offices, shops, restaurants, public spaces and parking. The architects are Squire and Partners, the firm behind The Knightsbridge, a luxury apartment complex near Harrods. Construction work is due to start next month and to finish by 2010 (added: Will, this is for you in particular, ;).)

Tower Hamlets council has granted full planning consent, although the developer, Chalegrove Properties, has since submitted plans to squeeze in an extra 100 homes by lowering the ceiling height, thus increasing the number of storeys to 44 in the tallest tower and to 30 in the adjacent tower. The focal point will be a central square with cafés and restaurants, according to Squire and Partners. There is a cycle space in the basement for every apartment but only 192 parking spaces for cars.

The scheme has involved a loss of London’s industrial heritage, however. Several 19th and 20th-century buildings that once housed a jam and pickle-making factory, Morton’s, have been demolished to create space. At its peak there were 20 factories in the Morton’s complex and a dock where the Cascades residential tower is now. The factories were not listed and were not in a conservation area, although a report from the Museum of London Archaeology Service, commissioned by the developer, stated that two of the buildings were “good and largely intact examples of early 20th-century factory buildings, of a type that is becoming increasingly rare as London’s former industrial sites are redeveloped”.

One of the two buildings latterly housed a cycle warehouse. Max Knott, manager of Wharf Cycles, which has moved to new premises near by at Millharbour, said: “It’s a shame it had to go and that it wasn’t listed when it could have been. It would have made a lovely conversion.”.

'Greenness' is an excellent way (and right of course) to get permission for our babies!

sounds good. Anyone got a picture of these warehouses?

oooh, good find jef. its such a central site, and probably better sited than Pan Peninsular, so I'd expect the units will sell fairly quickly. Must be lots of groundwork, completion by 2010 is a long way off, but yet another Official Construction thread coming out of the blocks. Marvellous.

This was the previous design. It would have been 160m -


http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/8722MarshWall_pic1.jpg

That previous design looks fantastic!

That previous design looks fantastic!

It's a half hearted rip off of City Hall. :ohno:

It's a half hearted rip off of City Hall. :ohno:

Not that there's anything wrong with the existing 22 Marshwall Towers i'd have the City Hall copycat anyday. If you think about this, one City Hall lookalike building in the city, and one in the Canary Wharf district will go nicely. It would give people the impression that although the City and Canary Wharf are competing they also depend on each other to survive :)

It's a half hearted rip off of City Hall. :ohno:


I think its the other way round! Ithik it was designed before City Hall

This is the current site of 22 Marsh Wall, dated 07 - 01 - 07. The current building is more or less gone. I expect pile drivers coming very soon!

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/ricochetj/22MarshwallSmall.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/ricochetj/22Marshwall5Small.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/ricochetj/22Marshwall4Small.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/ricochetj/22Marshwall3Small.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/ricochetj/22Marshwall2Small.jpg

Thanks for the pics! Although it's nothing special, being another glass box, it's not bad at all I think, and could look quite nice.

It can be thought as the development to house future staff working in RS and Arrowhead Quay.

Went past on the bus today and there's a crane on site!

Went past on the bus today and there's a crane on site!

Construction was confirmed to be starting this month. I think it's time for an official thread. :)

Is there any hope of something tall being built in CW?

We desperately need a building at least a fifth taller than Canary Wharf Tower in the area. Or has it been forbidden to build above it?

Apologies if I am a bit out of touch..

Yes ruled out due to City airport....please move to HK,NYC or Dubai if you are looking for huge density and height.

Yes ruled out due to City airport....please move to HK,NYC or Dubai if you are looking for huge density and height.

I thought that was only to the North of the estate. Surely they could build taller than CS1 on the Heron Quays west site? Not 1000ft, but maybe 900.

I don't particularly want great density or height, but like others I think CW is beginning to look extremely uniform and bland. If they really can not go heigher then are going to have to go shorter to avoid the whole wall thing. Or at the very please no more straight oblongs!

Yes ruled out due to City airport.

It is ruled out by the Masterplan of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets.
Height restrictions imposed by the CAA only applies to the corridor at the east-northern edge of the district.

^^ So if Tower Hamlets could be convinced, something could be built in or very close to CW that is 25-30m taller than 1CS?

^^ So if Tower Hamlets could be convinced, something could be built in or very close to CW that is 25-30m taller than 1CS?

Yes. But the new Masterplan has just been released last November. It will probably come into effect around 2009-2010 if there are no further delays.
I believe it is more likely you win the lotery than something substantially taller than 1CS is built.

^^ I know you disagree, but IMO that is a real shame.

Yawn :( Let's face it, high rises must be seen as ugly invaders (as of now) by a substantial percentage of the London populace, otherwise councils couldn't espouse such ridiculous restrictive policies -- the climate isn't right, hopefully it will change in the future when developable land becomes scarce and they are forced to change.

I thought 1CS had been given special status so that nothing in the wharf could top its cap?

Further along the Westferry Road I see work has started on this development, The Foundry, next to Harbinger School. Here they are retaining some of the warehouses.


http://www.cityanddocklands.com/images/development/foundry/image.jpg

http://www.cityanddocklands.com/images/development/foundry/two.jpg

Now that is more what I'd like to see being built around this area.

I concur. It has character!

Fits in well with that victorian building

The sales office opened today... prices start at £350,000.

This is being marketed as "The Landmark". Should the thread title be renamed as Pan Peninsula was from its address?

"The Landmark"? Thanks SE9. Ability Plc is "The Icon". Is the marketing suite on this site?

It is time they build it before the property market
eventually crashes ... The development is not
interesting from an architectural viewpoint. But
at least something tall is built. It is welcome these days...

Bulk dig and excavation and piling are planned during the period Jan07-Sept07. The lorry holding and delivery area is located on the north of the site.

Are enabeling works now going on then?

just been past the site - the surrounding hording has been removed from the WestFerry road side and there are Jcb's and a load of portacabins now on site - maybe an official construction thread is iminent

sounds like it!!

just been past the site - the surrounding hording has been removed from the WestFerry road side and there are Jcb's and a load of portacabins now on site - maybe an official construction thread is iminent

the hoardings blew over!

the hoardings blew over!

...how many times are we all going to be 'prick teased' by the wind!

That happended with Pioneer point too :ohno:

The development "The Landmark" (see post SE9 above) is marketed by Young Group (Ability Place).

Units of the 30 storeys building are on sale.

website of the development:

http://www.thelandmarke14.co.uk/index.htm

ahhh i bid for a contract from the young property group - i wanted 250 a day from them or something like that, which priced me out but you get what you pay for. big mistake they didnt give it to me with this development in particular, im tempted to mail them and tell them how many mistakes their brochure had but that would just be bitchy.

Huh..have you seen the size of atypical flat! Still...good to see it become reality

The new Oracle tower will be situated just next to the marsh wall development, almost opposite to Riverside South. I presume the Britannia Hotel will also be redeveloped in the near future....

http://i15.tinypic.com/3y6qgi9.jpg

Not architecturally interesting. But will add density. Especially as viewed from the Thames and City. Any recent pics of the site?

I'd have them in the weekend if you're prepared to wait! :)

We will wait :)

went past on a bus yesterday and didn't look like there was any activity on site.

^I can reply to myself by saying that i went past the site again yesterday and there were 3 diggers and quite a few people on site!

i went past the site again yesterday and there were 3 diggers and quite a few people on site!

Thanks! I want to see some action.

Pictures anyone?

Can a mod change this thread into an official construction thread ?

once we have construction pics, yeah :)

So sorry. If you look up a few posts I was meant to take some last weekend. Had loadsa fucking work :bash:

I'll try to squeese some time this weekend.

the cover advertisement that "the landmark" (aka 22 marsh wall) have attached to the march 1st edition of the wharf newspaper reads, and i quote: "In an article recently published in the Estates Gazette, one of the most respected property journals in the UK, The Landmark, currently under construction at 22 Marsh Wall was profiled as one of the top residential... blah blah blah... due for completion in 2010"

http://www.thelandmarke14.com/images/top_image.gif

http://www.thelandmarke14.com/images/explore.gif

http://www.thelandmarke14.com/

Thanks for that! I dont like the look of those supports! :)

http://www.thelandmarke14.com/

What a dull looking website :( I suppose it matches the towers, though. :ohno:

Pics please. I'll create an official thread the minute we have at least 1 photo of the site.

That render looks terrible, especially at ground level with those supports!

Being forced to watch comic relief fame academy and Sarah Tara Tominkinson shite is Singing Jo leen....What the FUCK are we all complaining about!

Yay! All the bathroom components are designed by Villeroy & Bosch, the same company who designed the bathroom at my house! :banana: :carrot: :cucumber: :pepper:

That render looks terrible, especially at ground level with those supports!

Actually..no doubt the bottom will contain the usual stuff...they just havent pictured it cause that render is for living space :)

1 photograph is all I'm asking for... just some evidence of site activity.

Then we can start an official thread for a 40 storey tower. :)

Come on guys, you're normally good at posting updates - what's with the big delay on this one?

It is now u/c in Emporis. But I agree we need 1 pic.

^Well I wish I have a camera, but I went past the site yesterday and i can assure you there were hoardings which were covered with that landmark logo etc, and there were even more diggers on site, people, activity etc. But I agree a photo is needed as proof.

I have just gone through the report of the strategic development committee that will decide whether to grant planning permission to increase the number of floors from 27 to 30 (tower 1) and 40 to 44 (tower 2). There is a slight increase in height as well:
tower 1: from 100,6 to 103,85m aod or 98.15 agl (98m)
tower 2: from 142,2 to 145,25m aod or 139.55 agl (140m)

decision next week: recommendation to grant planning permission.

hi guys im new to this but been reading the threads for ages.
anyway thought it was high time i got involved.
i live in london and the other day i was in canary wharf, so i took a few pics on my phone. they are terrible but anyway heres the one for marsh wall. the ground was clear, except for a few diggers and trucks.
here is the pic....its crap but its more of a practice for me to try and get this posting of pictures correct.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2175/photo0199mw3.jpg
please forgive if it hasnt worked .....

^ It has worked fine. I'm not sure if that's enough for Foxy though. He may want to see evidence of cranes and diggers working on the site rather than just the logo on the hoarding. :dunno:

OK I was driving past this morning. I must say I felt a bit of a Geek.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/land10.jpg

Across the road

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/RS1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/RS2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/RS3.jpg


...and flats for sale

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/lclclc/pp1.jpg

across the road, it's Riverside South.

Thanks, another 140m and 98m towers under construction in London :)

Welcome londonhighriser and thanks! Thanks also Londonrocks! Yep..I concur Jef!!

William..time to put this one U/C dont you think?

The list of residential towers u/c in CW is now impressive.

The list of residential towers u/c in CW is now impressive.

..and we are spoilt..if it was any other city, we would include Elektron, Ability place..that ballymore one etc..too small to be important :lol:

And so it begins...

View from the south. The rendering shows the massing of the 40-storeys Oracle tower to be submitted on the site of the pub opposite to Riverside South.

http://i17.tinypic.com/314uz4n.jpg

Yay! And a slight height increase too!

WTF is going on? :nuts:

I posted a render in a new thread created by WJFox, it was the first post, but now, that thread seems to have dissapeared and this old one unlocked! :nuts:

Yeah, I was confused too. But it looks like the Bossman has fixed things. :)

OK I was driving past this morning. I must say I felt a bit of a Geek.

:lol: When taking photos of everyday buildings, buildings being demolished or construction machinary just say to yourself "Im working for the council", you can sometimes also add, "Im so important I dont need an illuminous jacket"... perhaps even jot something down on a clipboard after the shoot

:lol: When taking photos of everyday buildings, buildings being demolished or construction machinary just say to yourself "Im working for the council", you can sometimes also add, "Im so important I dont need an illuminous jacket"... perhaps even jot something down on a clipboard after the shoot

.....whilst passers by curiously think, 'look at that geek..'

:lol: When taking photos of everyday buildings, buildings being demolished or construction machinary just say to yourself "Im working for the council", you can sometimes also add, "Im so important I dont need an illuminous jacket"... perhaps even jot something down on a clipboard after the shoot

My mum was standing at the main bus stand at Chiwick high road...she spoke to an official bus inspector with his hat, clipboard etc, about the lack of bus routes from where she lives. He said, coincidentally, there is a new bus route starting and it will pass your road. Mum was so pleased..she phoned me to tell me.

Mum was speaking to a friends days after and said "isnt it good about the new bus route"..her friend said "what new bus?who told you that"? My mum said "the inspector at the bus stand...the one with the clipboard and hat" Her friend said..."Oh him..everyone knows him..ignore him! he's doent work for the buses...hes there all night..hes just a nutter that dresses up"! A true story!

^that was a lovely story

I've added a Wikipedia page for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_Marsh_Wall

Great job Will, I'll add it to my watchlist.

View from the south. The rendering shows the massing of the 40-storeys Oracle tower to be submitted on the site of the pub opposite to Riverside South.

http://i17.tinypic.com/314uz4n.jpgIs the massing of the Oracle Tower that white box visible behind the shorter Landmark tower?

yes.

I thought the Oracle development was cancelled.

I thought the Oracle development was cancelled.

Cancelled? They have just bought the site last November I think.
Oracle is planning to submit pa around Feb/March.
Unless I've missed something.

Oracle..whats all this? PLEASE...I come on here just to catch up...there is SO MUCH U/C or about to be, I end up here all day trying to catch up with all the threads! I need a valium! :|

Firstly - that massing model doesn't show the Oracle tower - the building is meant to represent how the Columbus Tower would have looked from that angle (albeit a massing model so with no roof feature). If you look at the planning app it all becomes clear.

Secondly - Although Oracle have bought the City Pride site, they are going to spen the next few years focussing on Lantern's Court and 3 Millharbour. 3 Millbarbour plans haven't been submitted yet, but construction on Lantern's Court is imminent.

Oracle don't expect to build anything over City Pride for at least ten years - that's what they told the Wharf.

Aren't these mahoosive 3 yellow cranes on the left of this photo on the 22 Marsh Wall site?


And from South London, taken by thedib (http://flickr.com/photos/47318828@N00/)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/417224605_195b891f0b_o.jpg

Might be the Arrowhead Quay site though....

The three yellow cranes are the icon on Millwall Inner Dock (39 Millharbour). I think it's going to be 23 storeys.

...strategic development committee that will decide whether to grant planning permission to increase the number of floors from 27 to 30 (tower 1) and 40 to 44 (tower 2). decision next week.

Permit.