I know that this has nothing to do with skyscrapers/architecture, but I do believe it is an important topic regarding Greece's future.

Since I have moved to Athens I have noticed the massive amounts of small single purpose shops(fruit stores, butcher shops, clothing stores, etc...) that are in Greece. Having lived in the United States, a country where chain stores and big businesses dominate the market, I find it interesting to see so many little stores.

The question I have about these stores is, how long can they last?

A few blocks away from my appartment there is a Carrefour(super market). In this one store, you can buy everything that would usually take trips to atleast 5 different small stores in Greece. It is much more efficient than these smaller stores, and unlike the smaller stores, it is a major corporation, which is able to stay in business longer, and offer more products than smaller stores in Greece can ever compete with.

With Carrefours, malls(which eliminate the need to shop at several different stores for clothes), and other major businesses opening throughout Greece, how long can small family owmed businesses last for. At this point they can survive, but 20 years down the line, where will they be?

Any opinions on this matter, especially from the forumers living in Greece?

I know that this has nothing to do with skyscrapers/architecture, but I do believe it is an important topic regarding Greece's future.

Since I have moved to Athens I have noticed the massive amounts of small single purpose shops(fruit stores, butcher shops, clothing stores, etc...) that are in Greece. Having lived in the United States, a country where chain stores and big businesses dominate the market, I find it interesting to see so many little stores.

The question I have about these stores is, how long can they last?

A few blocks away from my appartment there is a Carrefour(super market). In this one store, you can buy everything that would usually take trips to atleast 5 different small stores in Greece. It is much more efficient than these smaller stores, and unlike the smaller stores, it is a major corporation, which is able to stay in business longer, and offer more products than smaller stores in Greece can ever compete with.

With Carrefours, malls(which eliminate the need to shop at several different stores for clothes), and other major businesses opening throughout Greece, how long can small family owmed businesses last for. At this point they can survive, but 20 years down the line, where will they be?

Any opinions on this matter, especially from the forumers living in Greece?

Well, Portugal underwent this change a decade ago. Today Portugal has more malls, shopping centres and hypermarkets in average than Spain and more are being built. Many stores have indeed closed down here but many others survived by following coorporative promotion tactics, like take two and have a 20% discount. The first small stores to go where the ones that were disorganised. I guess it all depends on the owner, his/her will to modernise the store and the capacity to lower costs, get less profits but keep the business running.

Zorba, I am normally a very optimistic person, but I have to say that the era of "mom & pop" stores is coming to an end. At least, the way we all remember those stores. You may be surprised to know that generally speaking, smaller, non-chain stores in Greece have been struggling for many years now, mostly pushed by strong competition. In "eparhia", I remember many store owners complaining how hard it is to compete with bigger name stores that came from Athens. This was back in the 90's, not very recently. Now, it is time for smaller chains to be pushed away, along with small stores, by major chains :(

Most people may claim that they prefer small family businesses to chains, but much like in the U.S. and other countries, they will end up shopping where lower prices and convenience co-exist. Of course, there are phases, and just like in the U.S. consumers will slowly rediscover the beauty and uniqueness of family-owned businesses, but Greece may be too long from that day - yes, it started to happen here, with all those downtown revitalization efforts. Until then, more and more big chains will continue to push small businesses out of existence, and more shopping centers and malls will replace the traditional shopping with a more "futuristic" and sterile experience. Again, the traditional way will eventually find its way back to existence, but not until many people convert from urbanites to suburbanites. Hope to be proven wrong about the dominance of chain stores, though... There is a nice article I would like to share with you, called Mom And Pop Stores vs. Retail And Online Behemoths--What's A Guy To Do? (http://www.epinions.com/content_4115374212) Nothing revealing, but very true and accurate, IMHO. On a positive note, I do not expect the family-owned restraurants to disappear in favor of McDonald's and other chain eateries, nor I claim that ALL small businesses will disappear. It will be a chain-dominating world, but with some good options still available.

I agree with the article and with you guys, you need and must have both in reasonable doses, but what you must not have is an economy dominated my moms and pops who take up the best spots in the city claiming the best business and complaining/sueing against multinational companies just because (let's face it) they are in the wrong place and /or most of the time do not have the required business skill and flexibility to adapt/move/innovate or even leave. I'm sorry if the sudden appearance of competition may be of such a shock to some but surely there is a place for everyone's economic potential if only they looked into it (like local grocery stores who maximise on consumer confidence and years of quality).

I agree with a guy on Tv in response to all these small store complaints "maybe we should just close the border and get it over with?"......very wise. ';)

There is a nice article I would like to share with you, called Mom And Pop Stores vs. Retail And Online Behemoths--What's A Guy To Do? (http://www.epinions.com/content_4115374212)
Thanks a lot for sharing this. I found it interesting. :)

Here is another piece of news, this time from the town of Kalamata. Being familiar with the area, I can say that if such developments are to succeed, they will have to be at the New Entrance, as that area is called. There is an abundance (for Greek standards) of land, ready to be developed. However, such destinations will take away people from the traditionally busy areas, mainly because the former will have to provide plenty of parking - that area is not densely populated - and therefore it will discourage the usual shopping experience that made the mom and pop stores so attractive and successful in the past.

Since this project is not delivere yet, nor I have seen the plans, it would be premature to judge the outcome. If this development brings more residents nearby, then it may have a different effect. If it becomes a well integrated destination, and not a shopping paradise surrounded by parking lots, I can see mom and pop stores prevailing. If they model after the shopping centers here, in the U.S., then expect things to go downhill, fast. The following article is from Eleftheria, a newpaper published in Kalamata:

Συγκρότημα κινηματογράφων και καταστημάτων Πάρκο αναψυχής στη Νέα Είσοδο Καλαμάτας

Αλλάζει ο χάρτης ψυχαγωγίας στην Καλαμάτα, καθώς δρομολογήθηκε η διαδικασία για την κατασκευή συγκροτήματος κινηματογράφων και άλλων παράλληλων δραστηριοτήτων στηΝέα Είσοδο Καλαμάτας. Πρόκειται για επένδυση που θα αναπτυχθεί σε οικόπεδο 40 στρεμμάτων δίπλα στο Βιοτεχνικό Πάρκο, ιδιοκτησίας Γιάννη και Μιχάλη Αναστασόπουλου.

Από τις αρμόδιες υπηρεσίες παραπέμπεται στο Νομαρχιακό Συμβούλιο με θετική γνωμοδότηση η μελέτη περιβαλλοντικών επιπτώσεων, ενώ σύμφωναμε πληροφορίες μας υπάρχει η σχετική προετοιμασία για την κατασκευήσε συνεργασία με εταιρεία η οποία ειδικεύεται σε τέτοια συγκροτήματα.
Οπως προκύπτει από τη μελέτη, στο χώρο θα κατασκευαστούν αίθουσες κινηματογράφου συνολικής χωρητικότητας 1.170 ατόμων, ενώ θα κατασκευαστούν καταστήματα, εστιατόρια και χώροι ψυχαγωγίας-μπόουλινγκ σε κτήρια με συνολική επιφάνεια 6.133 τετραγωνικών μέτρων.

Η δημιουργία του κέντρου αλλάζει τα δεδομένα στον τομέα της ψυχαγωγίας και σηματοδοτεί τη γενικότερη τάση για αλλαγή στον εμπορικό χάρτη της πόλης καθώς πυκνώνουν οι κινήσεις για τη δημιουργία μεγάλων συγκροτημάτων στον άξονα της Νέας Εισόδου όπου και υπάρχουν μεγάλα οικόπεδα.
This will feel like hijacking the thread with photos from my city, but in all honesty I have no such intention. There is one good example of converting an enclosed mall into a more walkable, more mixed use destination. While still unfinished, this project is a great example of multiple uses. It is called the New North Hills:

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51017939.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51017940.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51017945.jpg

There are 3 levels of parking in a deck that sits below ground level... sort of:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51324996.jpg

These apartments are actually completed now, but you get an idea of what I am trying to demonstrate here... You gotta have residents within a short walking distance:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51325014.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/53520457.jpg

I will not bother you with more, but I simply want to show how successful mixed use developments can attract people and mom and pop stores, locally owned and operated. The New North Hills has a great mix of chain stores, a multiplex cinema, offices, apartments (a new condo building, a 4-star hotel and more offices are also under way) and above all, it gets visited by many people throughout the week, without even all the stores being open. This is the type of coexistence that I expect to see in the future.

Again, sorry for hijacking this thread with my photos... I am sure there are similar and better developments out there, but I wanted to demonstrate how locally owned businesses and chains can exist next to each other... or so I hope.

^^
Don't be sorry. You've contributed a lot to this thread.

I'm not very familiar with Kalamata, so I can't speak on whether where they plan on developing is a good location or not, but I believe it is vital to open more major shopping centers such as the New North Hills, in cities throughout Greece.

While Athens is an advanced European capital, most cities in Greece still lag behind in terms of infstructure, and developments such as those that you showed. My godbrother just returned from University in Patras, and he said that Patras is not a very good city for a young person to live in, because it doesnt have the modern ammenities/shopping complexes/entertainment areas that Athens has.

Hopefully developments like those taking place in Kalamata will continue throughout Greece's smaller cities.

raleigh-NC, I agree with you, and there is one little detail: malls help small businesses survive at times as they allow them to pay lower rents when they are "sheltered" inside them......rents that they would not be able to pay in some expensive areas if they ventured alone outside the malls.

But a mall doesnt have to suffocate its shops, it can be a complex of small shops as you show, not an enclosed area.

I don't think such places can die easily! At least in my country. Regarding we have so many big supermarkets and malls in Istanbul (more than Athens), we have still small stores and old fashion markets and people like to go there. We still have Manavis, Bakkalis, Xasapis. It depends on the living style. And as I saw Greek neigbourhoods are organized like us.

I agree, but I do take an issue with the crappy way it has been done in the United States - soon to become the norm in Greece, too. Originally, the idea of shopping centers was good because it provided all the parking customers needed. However, this type of developments also attracted bigger chain stores - I am not totally against them, to be honest - which slowly pushed away the mom and pop stores. Shopping centers discouraged walking and socializing, in addition. Please, do not think that I am fanatic for, or against, a specific way of doing things. I merely want to point out that the many mistakes made in the U.S. should not be made in Greece. Yes, there should be many great shopping options. Yes, it is wonderful to be inside a temperature-controlled area during the hot, or freezing cold days. Yes, it is lovely to be able to find a parking spot easily. All this must be done in a way the Greek public does not lose its "charming" self. I love it when I walk around and see people everywhere, particularly along the main streets, and it will feel strange if I visit one day and I see decreased pedestrian activity, along with big chain stores signs all over.

I will continue with my hijacking because I feel that some ideas may be useful and can be applied to Greek developments. I showed a little bit of New North Hills, which sounds like you guys at least appreciated. The same developer has put together some plans for the area across from New North Hills. This proposal is known as North Hills East (http://www.northhillsraleigh.com/east/). Here are some renderings to show the big picture:

New North Hills to the left of Six Forks Rd, and North Hills East to the right:
http://northhillsraleigh.com/east/wp-content/images/NorthHillsEastmaster.jpg

Contrary to the usual way of doing things in the United States, this proposal will offer a nice mix of uses, plenty of parking at some proposed parking decks and will add 4-5 tall mid-rises (about 12 floors each):
http://northhillsraleigh.com/east/wp-content/images/NHcover_01.jpg

http://northhillsraleigh.com/east/wp-content/images/NHRetail2_01.jpg

You may ask yourselves, why did I posted these renderings? Simply because the New Entrance in Kalamata can offer a very similar opportunity. The difference is that North Hills is an area that is already residential for the most part, regardless its low-density nature. New Entrance would need to provide a lot more amenities to attract businesses, which will increase rents and make it harder for smaller businesses to survive, IMHO. Here are a couple of images that should help you place the New Entrance area into the map. In the first image, the area discussed is located between the horizontal center and of the bottom of the image, and to the left of the vertical axis.

http://www.acs-panama.com/images/gr_kalamata_1.jpg

In the following image, most of the central horizontal axis covers the New Entrance. It is clearly a VERY low-density place, but to be fair, I am not sure exactly where the proposed development will be. From what I know, small businesses located there are mostly the ones that do not require constant pedestrian activity, unlike most retail destinations and restaurants.

http://www.kal.gr/wallpapers/images/kalamata04.jpg

When I was living in New York City (1985-1992) a friend of mine and I would "compete" on drawing ideas for that area's redevelopment. We saw the 1986 earthquake as an opportunity to not only rebuild the city, but also as a great chance to redevelop areas like the New Entrance. I still have some very ambitious drawings I put together, showing high-density developments, as well as some very forward and futuristic ideas :lol:

One more apology: I abused the space to show Raleigh and Kalamata, but please believe me, I only had the topic of the thread in mind. Having seeing both sides of the coin, I have come to appreciate the mom and pop stores more. Clearly, it would be preferable to separate the good stores from the bad ones, as there are many mom and pop stores I could live without. Small businesses are the backbone of the economy, even in the U.S., but I could not endorse businesses that do not provide the best service possible. Which is why I believe that decent urban developments can offer opportunities for small and large businesses to co-exist and learn from each other. Much of the success depends on the developers and how they "allow" different uses to be blended into the same location. Hopefully, Greek developers will do what is right for Greece.

Does anyone have photos of areas that have been developed as mixed-use communities? I've seen photos from some urban malls that seem to blend nicely with the existing fabric.

Here are some photo's of a mixed development area in Silver Spring, Maryland.Silver Spring is right on the border with Washington D.C., and in the past 10 years has undergone a massive transformation into a beautiful urban center. The Discovery Channel, as well as the American Film Institue have their offices in Silver Spring.

Here are a few pictures of a mixed development area in Silver Spring, which happens to be one of the main squares/hangouts of the area.

http://www.mc-mncppc.org/silverspring/Images/ss_downtown3.jpg
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/dpwt/dir/comm_contests/2004/kmcb/image/1.jpg
http://www.mc-mncppc.org/silverspring/Images/ss_downtown1.jpg
http://www.stargazertees.com/mag3skies/silverspring.jpg

The Silver Spring area from the air
http://www.beyonddc.com/images/photos/md/silverspring/downtown/aerial01.jpg

Blueprints of downtown Silver Spring
http://www.downtownsilverspring.com/image/siteplan0306.gif

These pictures made me homesick. lol

Great pics, Zorba :okay: I am a little familiar with Silver Spring because a friend of mine used to live there with his wife and I visited them a few times. Yes, these photos are good examples of what I think we can do to combine traditional and new urbanity. Such environments could potentially help all kinds of smaller businesses to survive. The large chain stores can feed some locally owned business with new customers, or at least give them exposure. Of course, this is ideal and I am not suggesting it would, or wouldn't work in Greece.

From what i ve seen the last years those small shops can hardly survive nowdays, but i ve seen that many of those are forming some unions(creating supermarkets chains), so they are making a company with the same name that can provide em with less more expensive goods and this way they are lowering their prices to compete with malls like carefour.
Thats what is happening in my region the last years, and it seems that is working for now, i guess that in the future they ll be forced to create bigger companies and as a result less small shops will be around, and some will prolly survive in the name of quality.

@ Zorba and Raleigh, nice pics!

I think those type of developments are great. They're good for smaller businesses, they can beautify an area, and they simply "add" a lot to a city.
I believe Greek cities could benefit from such developments. Their ability to revive the small-store concept is obvious.
People want safe, clean, and aesthetically pleasing environments. Besides the convenience factor, that's why shopping malls are doing so well in Greece.
If beautiful shopping areas were erected in Greek cities, like the ones posted above, many small stores in Greece could greatly benefit.

This area in Dallas is called the West Village, where countless small shops are thriving:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/protaras/Picture311-1.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/protaras/Picture294-1.jpg

I think small companies are in a bad position and have to change and adjust in the new environment rather than complaining all the time about big chains. After all, nobody forces people to shop in large super-markets, they find it more convenient and cheaper.

However, I believe there is place for small companies to flourish and continue working.

Would you think it is possible that small shops can combine their efforts together in Malls, so that they can create a virtual superstore from many small firms? Or is the cost and the coordination effort too high?

Great pics, NMBS1 :okay:

I think that Greece already has the fabric that allows small businesses to flourish. What is left is to create some sort of professional attitude, a unique environment, if you will, which the customer will appreciate and continue to support. Greeks have not gone through the phase of significant loss, when it comes to small businesses, unlike here, where WalMart's and Target's have pretty much dominated the shopping centers around the country. Nothing wrong with these chains - I do shop there, myself - but it is my opinion that such big box names flourish because of the environment. Smaller stores can be well integrated into the urban fabric, without disrupting the life of the average person - they could not generate the amount of traffic that superstores would. However, there is a way to blend such huge stores, but that is a topic for another discussion. By the way, I love the Target store in Minneapolis:

http://www.mcmca.com/images/AwardImages/target.jpg