Hello all,

I am in Chicago for the remaining week on business/pleasure. As I have said before and I will take this opportunity to say again, Chicago is a beeeutiful city! This is even more enhanced seeing that the weather has been very moderate and the sky clear. I've so far walked the entire Loop multiple times and I assume have rode about 50%of the system of the urban non-commuter "el" trains properly called the CTA as opposed to Metra. The equivalent being our Metro as opposed to the commuter Metrolink trains. I am staying in the Hyde Park area which is approx. 6-8 miles outside of downtown which is the equivalent of Hollywood to our downtown or more appropriately the Crenshaw district from our downtown and the fact that it is predominantly black at least from an "eyeball" survey.
One thing I've surprisingly started to feel is almost an indescribable sense of 'Chicago being a great urban center' but this is not what I would want LA to become, AT ALL. Let me explain.
What I've immediately started to miss is what we, me included, have sometimes complained about on this forum about our wonderfully chaotic 'hellhole'. Traffic. I mean LA style traffic is not to be found here. I mean not just traffic on the thoroughfares and the freeways but LA style traffic even on the side streets. Funny, that's one of the things that I look forward to when I get back. I was feeling really out of place on Sunday for I was looking particularly LA meaning half naked, tanned and nicely worked out. I'd noticed that most men wore pants or frumpy shorts(mind you with a belt) here and a shirt not calf length shorts a tank top and oversized sun glasses. So yes, I was looking very LA....I guess with that look it sent a signal out to some because I constantly heard whispering and suffered many a stare. One man asked me if ' I was gay?' Now, I can reassure you that their was no swish or swoosh in my step on that particular day so it goes without mentioning I was a bit taken aback. My only response to that question was, "Why of course, I'm from LA". That has never ever happened to me in el gay, oh I mean LA, and I don't think it ever will.
But this isn't a rant about what Chicago has that LA doesn't or vice versa but what do we really want for our city, density, 'scrapers, parks, urbanity.........
Do we really want lots and lots of 'scrapers? Yes.
Do we want them all them all in our CBD(Downtown)? No.
I do now see the benefit of having our tall buildings grace the entire facade of the city, primarily linening Wilshire Blvd, connecting our two main CBD's downtown and Century City as well as a burgeoning smaller one Santa Monica. Kinda like the "pearl necklace" of tall buildings that AV talks about, or was that the park system that he was referring to? I don't remember, but I know that in my opinion after this boom has ended I would like to see mini scaper booms along Wilshire and CC and SM as well.

Do we need more density? Maybe.
I don't know about this one folks but maybe someone could help me out here. Outside of the Valley, LA seems to be pretty dense to me. Being one of the #1 entry points for immigrants in the world are all of them really being counted? I don't mean to sound fececious here but does the census take into account the thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants living in our city? And if they do estimate them in, how can they accurately? We all know that most of these reportedly single family homes are anything but, with 2 or 3 families living in a single dwelling. And also isn't their a deception in our cities density numbers seeing that a mountain range bisects it as well as the outer fringes of the Valley being nearly inhabitable? It seems to me that their is a deception of numbers going on when you compare a city of 469 sq miles with one that is let's say 49 sq miles and then average out the population. I think what should be compared are peak density tracts which would give us a more accurate "feel" of the city.

A good transit system is half reality and half psychological.

I firmly believe and now believe it even more firmly after being here in Chicago that once the Expo to SM is built, the Purple to SM and perhaps DC or Silver Line LA will have a great transit system. I say this because while being here I've had to take the dreaded train + bus combo. But here no one thinks that particular combination is that awful. In fact it just rolled off of their lips like 'once you get to that stop then take this bus to.....' In LA if you have to take a train it seems cumbersome to alot of people, now ask them to take a bus after taking the train, and they'll just drive. Chicago most defitnetly has a more mature urban rail as well as commuter rail transit system (I am really impressed by Metra)but I have yet to go to any city in the US including NYC and find such an extensive bus system than that resides in LA. Outside of NYC no one can touch our bus ridership numbers or the vast array of limited, express, local, rapid, dash and now exclusive BRT ala the Orange Line along with the interagency busses of Culver City, SM, Torrance, Montebello that overlap all of the aforementioned and so on and so on. All busses in every city I've ever lived or visited get stuck in traffic, are slower than driving, attract the elderly as well as hardcore krazies.

So I do apologize for the long post, my intention was just to be a blurb. I am enjoying Chicago, it feels like a larger version of SF as far as layout goes. Very orderly, relatively clean, grand vistas, wonderful city views, accomodating to tourists and so on. But one thing I'm sure of is that I don't want LA to be a Chicago or San Fran for that matter. I have a new found appreciation for LA's unconvetionality and "chaos".

So what DO we really want for our city?

cool... i've always wanted to "see" chicago, but i never made past the o'hare.

imagine if los angeles did have one CBD(downtown)!! with the transit system we have today, forget even being able to go home because you would have to turn around as soon as you got back!!

I think you're confused as to how people perceive Los Angeles... Very few people in Chicago are going to think being from LA makes you any more likely to be gay. Chicago itself has a very large gay population, so I find it pretty odd that some random locals would care if you were gay or not. Tourists, maybe? Oh, and I think the whole tank top/sunglasses look gives out more of a Florida vibe. ;)

Been taking any pictures?

jesus k... are you high?

Chicago is a beautiful city. Stayed across the NBC Towers one year and had a great time. Chicago is no LA and that's a good thing though.

One thing about LA's traffic. You know, I really like driving my car, I think that's why I love LA. The freeways here are fun to drive imo and practically everywhere. If I wanted to sit in some subway that smelled like urine I'd move to NY or commute on some dirty train I'd move to another city. I like driving in my OWN car and if a little (ok a lot) of traffic is the side effect, I'll live.

I also think LA' skyline is beautiful the way it is now. I don't have to sprain my neck looking at scattered landmarks. Further development will be good but I hope it keeps the density.

I think you're confused as to how people perceive Los Angeles... Very few people in Chicago are going to think being from LA makes you any more likely to be gay. Chicago itself has a very large gay population, so I find it pretty odd that some random locals would care if you were gay or not. Tourists, maybe? Oh, and I think the whole tank top/sunglasses look gives out more of a Florida vibe. ;)

Been taking any pictures?

I've taken some pictures. I've seen so many of the things that I am witnessing first hand on this forum so their's really no need to snap shots. The whole gay thing was an incident that I personally experienced. I did not take the time to ask if they were tourists, they were in Chicago and that was one of my experiences in Chicago. Their is really no need to get defensive and let me know that the city has a large gay population, in fact Chicago did hold the last gay games.
Florida? Maybe you have your geography screwed, they where overalls.

jesus k... are you high?

I'm just sayin.......Ok, I'll edit my experiences from this point forward if that's what you really really want!

I'm glad your enjoying CHi-Town Klamedia. Also, a very interesting perspective on which direction you would like L.A. to go when it comes to urban planning.

Yesterday was a beautiful day here, today was damp and mostly cloudy. The rest of the week looks nice so I hope you get out and enjoy the sites.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wls/cms_exf_2005/weather/wls_090406_jerry7day.jpg



BTW,

You said your staying down in Hyde Park. I have a condo about 45 blocks (about 6 miles). north of Hyde Park in the South Loop May be you wanna hook up and have a few drinks next weekend if your still here?

I'm here til Wed and I'm having a big "Chicago" day tomorrow Tuesday, camera in hand. If I could hook up with you then that would be good. I was headed towards Detroit for a day but I have sooo much yet to see in Chicago, I'm staying. I'd like to say once again, what a beautiful city you'll have here. Btw, is their rent control in Chicago?

go to detroit you pansy!!

i want to see how my favorite slumsvill is doing these days

Chicago is one of my all-time favorite cities....and to think that this urban center was planned to be this way a hundred years ago. Kudos to its' past leaders for having the vision and tenacity....

Klamedia, can you post your photos on this thread for our viewing pleasure? No R or X-rated pics please!

Not only am I being called "pansy" for not going to Detroit but now their seems to be a belief that I would post less than respectable photos????? Truth is I would post them but 1)I'm not a great photog like many of you & 2)I really don't know how to post photos on here. It's been explained to me all before but it seems mad complicated. Anyway I plan to take lots of pictures today so maybe when I get back I'll post them.

Ok, I've been walking around.......I must have walked inside the Loop back and forth like, 10 times. I plan to go back to Millenium Park, go visit Grant Park, that museum with King Tut in it, the Du Sable African American museum and if I have enough time go to the F. L. Wright home/studio/museum thingy. I also plan to eat a hot dog with lots of relish and saurkraut on it.....isn't that a Chicago thing? And go drink a bourbon neat at some bar, I think that's Chicago too.
All the establishment......All the history........Can't we just keep LA as the ultimate disposable city, I think I like it that way better. I can come here for history or go to San Fran.......But we can't dispose of City Hall because it is the largest replica of a
dick in the world! Believe it or not, the first thing I'm gonna do when I get back to LA is jump in my car and go drive on a freeway.......

BTW, to celebrate my time in Chicago and to pay homage to the crown jewel of the Midwest I've had Smashing Pumpkins Mellon Collie & The Infinite Sadness along with R. Kelly's 12 Play on repeat.......

pitcures! pictures! pictures!

i want to see how an angelino takes pictures of the city of big shoulders

Do we need more density? Maybe.

I frequently say that I'm a fan of densification. But really, I'm more of an advocate of community creation (local economies and local identification) and if densification is the by-product or what is necessary to do that then so be it.

These strip malls and closed malls have to be torn up. These countless major intersections without any pedestrian activity have to be changed. We need developments that give every community it's own economic center, amenities and services residents can walk to and support ($$).

Right now we have too much retail everywhere and mostly not concentrated at or around major intersections. As a consequence any person running errands has to take their cars, and no one is walking. And the lack of walking hurts local businesses that heavily rely on pedestrian traffic/window advertising to market themselves.

Here's how the process works:
1. You build the train station
2. You surround it with ground floor retail
3. Local businesses move as close to the station exits as possible, vacating their poorly placed businesses.
4. If the places the local businesses are vacating aren't near major intersections you rezone the area for residential development.
5. You tear down the commercial building and replace it with a 3-story or more residential development that better integrates with the community.

In LA if you have to take a train it seems cumbersome to alot of people, now ask them to take a bus after taking the train, and they'll just drive.

And I do believe that we can create a rail system that connects a good portion of our major destinations (almost all of our tourist destinations) or puts people within a 0.5-mile walk. I've spent this summer living in Boston. The only time I use the bus is when I'm outside the city core, typically when I don't feel like walking home. Every major destination in the city core is a train station and/or short walk away. I think we can do the same thing for Downtown LA, Wilshire Districts, Hollywood, Century City, Westwood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Culver City, Pasadena, Burbank, Glendale, Long Beach and El Segundo. Isn't that enough?

I think we can do the same thing for Downtown LA, Wilshire Districts, Hollywood, Century City, Westwood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Culver City, Pasadena, Burbank, Glendale, Long Beach and El Segundo. Isn't that enough?

what about all the commuters from outside those areas? look at the commute page and you will see alot of people are not just comming from burbank and el segundo

I'm here til Wed and I'm having a big "Chicago" day tomorrow Tuesday, camera in hand. If I could hook up with you then that would be good. I was headed towards Detroit for a day but I have sooo much yet to see in Chicago, I'm staying. I'd like to say once again, what a beautiful city you'll have here. Btw, is their rent control in Chicago?

I can't wait to see your photos!

I wish I could hook up but I have too much to do. I'm a teacher, and we have open house tomorrow night. I don't have any plans Friday (as of yet, but I might have to watch my son) which will be the earliest this week that I would be free. If we can't hook up, maybe the next time your in town, or the next time I'm in L.A.


As far as I know, there is no rent control in the city of Chicago.

These strip malls and closed malls have to be torn up. These countless major intersections without any pedestrian activity have to be changed. Right now we have too much retail everywhere and mostly not concentrated at or around major intersections. As a consequence any person running errands has to take their cars, and no one is walking.
Here's how the process works:
1. You build the train station
2. You surround it with ground floor retail
3. Local businesses move as close to the station exits as possible, vacating their poorly placed businesses.
4. If the places the local businesses are vacating aren't near major intersections you rezone the area for residential development.
5. You tear down the commercial building and replace it with a 3-story or more residential development that better integrates with the community.



?

After being here for a few days (Chicago), to my surprise I have seen many things that I thought were unique to LA in existence right here in the Windy City. I've seen strip malls. I've seen huge ass parking lots out front of grocery stores as well as big box stores like Target. In fact, I've seen something in abundance that I hardly ever see in LA proper, vacant lots. Lots of them. Especially in the hood-y areas. And I mean lots and lots of them. But yet their is still foot traffic. I'm more than convinced that LA is walkable, EVEN NOW after seeing people here in Chicago walking by parking lots and vacant lots to get to their train stop. It's not about the required parking spaces. It's really not about the strip mall problem. It's about a CAR CULTURE problem. Many many people have reasonable access to rail even now. Take Pasadena for instance. How many of those people take the Gold Line instead of driving downtown to work? And please don't tell me that it takes too long. 30 minutes to your office downtown while you sit your ass on a very clean, very quiet train with scenery is not too long. Good example: I was riding (for at least the 5th time) the Red Line north. Consistently after emerging/passing the Armitage stop but before getting to the Fullerton stop the train has slowed down considerably, and a couple times has stopped completely. I wonder how many people in Chicago are saying "I don't take the Red Line because it slows down after Armitage but before Fullerton". The chief complaint from people about the Gold Line is that it slows down at Marmion Way but no one ever mentions that the rest of the ride is relatively fast, everyone concentrates on that one small stretch. Hell, I don't even know why the train slowed down here, its grade seperated but I can tell you why logically an at grade Gold Line train would slow down while passing within 50 ft of little children on tricycles. These trains here go no slower or faster than the trains back in LA, in fact I think our trains might be a smidgent faster, less than 20 years versus nearly 100 years old. And it's the same story on all of our lines. Their is no reason why professionals living in Long Beach should not be worshipping the Blue Line. And please don't tell me about going through some rough hoods, it's the same shit here. I am convinced that it is the culture or belief system that exists in LA that needs to be changed. Though I am very pleased by the ridership on our rail lines, those numbers could easily be doubled or even tripled if you could convince the person stuck on the 101 who lives in Sherman Oaks to take the Orange Line to the Red. We'll see after Expo is finished in 2010 or so. If those mothatfukkas in Culver City are still driving to their office downtown instead of taking the train because of x,y and z issue, I say fuck 'em.

pitcures! pictures! pictures!

i want to see how an angelino takes pictures of the city of big shoulders

It's the 'city of broad shoulders' botox.

...well you still understood it

That's why I corrected you.

...fine

jeez, my skin is pretty much orange right now, hope I don't get the same treatment. :runaway:

Anyways, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Yeah, LA's not alone when it comes to strip malls and parking lots, it's a real problem. Don't expect those empty lots to last forever though, there's a lot of infill going up, they're disapearing fast...I'm glad to say.

This might sound silly, but after my trip to LA I've concluded that no city does parking lots and strip malls like LA.Don't take it the wrong way, I mean that as a compliment. In most places they're just a parking lot or a strip mall, but in they're something extra. LA just makes them work, they're just such a part of the city, so LA. I don't know it's kinda dumb. :runaway:

yeah L.A does have A lot of parking lots but if people can get to the store, buy what they neeed then it does not really matter and the good thing All those parking lots in downtown L.A can just become a development site. Which gives us room to build it's like if they saved the lots so they can soon get build on. but your right l.A does have many parking spaces

Actually I give Chicago credit for seemingly straddling the line between transit orientated city as well as a place where you can own a car and be fine with it and from what I've seen no one judges you either way. All of those condos downtown have ample parking within the building, the ones constructed as well as the ones being constructed. It gives me hope for LA being a modern city and cars defitnetly being a modern phenomena, the idea that transit and private car ownership can co-exist. Let's face it, in LA or any modern megalopolis, the two will have to make peace with one another.

agreed

what about all the commuters from outside those areas? look at the commute page and you will see alot of people are not just comming from burbank and el segundo

I never suggested those were the ONLY places the network should cover:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/damienwg/goodmon_final.gif

yah yah yah... ive seen that befor

by listing a few cities and then saying isnt that enough, gives the feeling that those are the only areas of interest