Kamloops this week

Labour leader Jim Sinclair is once again urging the provincial Liberal government to scrap the $6 training wage and to raise the minimum wage to $10 from $8.

The president of the B.C. Federation of Labour is also calling on Premier Gordon Campbell to increase welfare payments.

"It's outrageous that we have this so-called boom economy - and even if we didn't, it's outrageous - that we have a $6 pay in 2006," Sinclair told KTW.

"It should disappear."

Fast-food restaurants, Sinclair said, are the only beneficiaries of the training wage.

"It was a bad idea. Get rid of it."

Sinclair also wants to see the minimum wage, established in 2001, raised by $2 to $10. Doing so, he said, would keep the minimum wage in line with inflation.

"Now I know that some employers will claim that this will be hardship. I hear them saying it already. But you got to remember, we never raised the minimum wage in 50 years without employers saying it would make them bankrupt. In fact, now the unemployment rate is low, thank you very much!"

Liberal Kevin Krueger, on the other hand, argues the training wage has helped to reduce youth unemployment.

The MLA for Kamloops-North Thompson said that, because of low unemployment and the booming economy, people can choose where they wish to work.

If an employer doesn't treat them right, he said, chances are good they'll find employment elsewhere.

"It's very much an employees' market," Krueger said. "Employers are competing for the services of good employees."

He dismissed Sinclair's idea of raising the minimum wage as counterproductive because it could increase the cost of doing business in B.C. and force employers to relocate to another province.

"Mr. Sinclair is a self-professed expert on spending other people's money," he said. "Sinclair's way is the old-fashioned socialist NDP way, and it's wrong."

As far as increasing welfare rates is concerned, Krueger said it would prompt more people to go on welfare instead of work.

THE LOWDOWN ACROSS CANADA

A comparison of minimum wages

NUNAVUT

N.W.T.

YUKON

B.C.

ONTARIO

QUEBEC

MANITOBA

SASKATCHEWAN

NOVA SCOTIA

P.E.I.

ALBERTA

NEWFOUNDLAND

NEW BRUNSWICK

$8.50

$8.25

$8.25

$8.00

$7.75

$7.75

$7.60

$7.55

$7.15

$7.15

$7.00

$6.75

$6.70

i agree.....it should dissapear. One of the poor decisions made by this gov't.

More NDP/Communist rhetoric. Why stop there? Lets make sure we do all we can to ensure we are as unappealing to business as possible. :bash:

I have never actually encountered the training wage, either personally or heard anyone I know have to take it.

It's only temporary anyways, either get rid of it or shorten the length of 'training.'

More NDP/Communist rhetoric. Why stop there? Lets make sure we do all we can to ensure we are as unappealing to business as possible. :bash:

Yes, lets be business' bitch and cater to their every whim. Why stop there? Lets get rid of any form of money and let businesses supply us with food in exchange for work. If you don't work enough or have the flu, no food for you. :sly:

Yes, lets be business' bitch and cater to their every whim. Why stop there? Lets get rid of any form of money and let businesses supply us with food in exchange for work. If you don't work enough or have the flu, no food for you. :sly:
Why stop there? Let's put the tax rate up to %80 and send an armed robber into your house every month or so to force the money off you to pay for the people who live in the govt-provided mansions on the hill! Let's become a slave to the welfare state! CORRECTION: We already are.

Why stop there? Let's put the tax rate up to %80 and send an armed robber into your house every month or so to force the money off you to pay for the people who live in the govt-provided mansions on the hill! Let's become a slave to the welfare state! CORRECTION: We already are.

Well said. I so much agree.
Or we could raise the minimum wage to $1,000/hour and we could all be rich! Everyone at once! Really! :weird:
Typical socialists at work. Workers should be worrying about improving their skills and making themselves more valuable to employers or become self employed. Our wealth is generated by the VOLUNTARY exchange of goods and services, not through use of the political system to extort money INVOLUNTARILY from people.
France has a high minimum wage and a quarter of their young people in their most productive years are unemployed. Is this where we want to go?

Why stop there? Let's put the tax rate up to %80 and send an armed robber into your house every month or so to force the money off you to pay for the people who live in the govt-provided mansions on the hill! Let's become a slave to the welfare state! CORRECTION: We already are.

Already are? You apparantly don't know the definition of a welfare state. Canada is not a welfare state, and its not even close to it. Do you get free healthcare (not the basic crap, but dental, etc), higher education, place to live? Even places like that do not have taxes at 80%, so please come back when you do a bit of research.
Take a look outside your own world and you will see a large percentage people barely able to make a living in Canada, even though they are willing to do any job that is offered to them (particularily immigrants). Minimum wage should be set to a level where someone can buy food, provide shelter, and live in healthy conditions. Nobody mentioned luxuries.

Well said. I so much agree.
Or we could raise the minimum wage to $1,000/hour and we could all be rich! Everyone at once! Really! :weird:
Typical socialists at work. Workers should be worrying about improving their skills and making themselves more valuable to employers or become self employed. Our wealth is generated by the VOLUNTARY exchange of goods and services, not through use of the political system to extort money INVOLUNTARILY from people.
France has a high minimum wage and a quarter of their young people in their most productive years are unemployed. Is this where we want to go?

Nobody mention premium pay once you start, typical neocon response :weird:
How do you expect someone to go to University/Trade school when they can't even afford to provide food and decent living conditions for their families to start with? Lets see you improve yourself with $50 a month to spare for education, maybe you can get a semester paid off in 2 years.
So by your line of reasoning, we should have 0% taxes? So I should personally fix a water main if it bursts or fix a road if I find it has too many holes?
I don't see many homeless people in France, and I don't see many complaining about paying taxes. In fact, people are quite happy there for the most part. Even those without jobs. But of course, that doesn't matter to you, as money is the only thing that matters to you...

Already are? You apparantly don't know the definition of a welfare state. Canada is not a welfare state, and its not even close to it. Do you get free healthcare (not the basic crap, but dental, etc), higher education, place to live? Even places like that do not have taxes at 80%, so please come back when you do a bit of research.
Take a look outside your own world and you will see a large percentage people barely able to make a living in Canada, even though they are willing to do any job that is offered to them (particularily immigrants). Minimum wage should be set to a level where someone can buy food, provide shelter, and live in healthy conditions. Nobody mentioned luxuries.

i agree. and BC needs to improve its social and welfare programs.....eversince those were downgraded, there have been a spike in the number of homeless people and pandhandlers.

Nobody mention premium pay once you start, typical neocon response :weird:
I don't see many homeless people in France, and I don't see many complaining about paying taxes. In fact, people are quite happy there for the most part. Even those without jobs.

Except when they are rioting and setting everything on fire.

I'll take "neocon" as a complement, since I don't know what it means.

So, you are saying that if you cannot make a living (do or make something that people want in a free society), it is my obligation to feed you, house you and make sure that you are "healthy"? Was I born to take care of you?

Except when they are rioting and setting everything on fire.

I'll take "neocon" as a complement, since I don't know what it means.



If you did a bit of research, you would find the rioting was mostly due to racial problems that faced young, non-white (mostly muslim), people who were being discriminated against. This only related to employment because people did not want to hire them because of their religion and race.

So, you are saying that if you cannot make a living (do or make something that people want in a free society), it is my obligation to feed you, house you and make sure that you are "healthy"? Was I born to take care of you?

Yes, what are you supposed to do? If you got hit by a bus on your way to work and became a quadripilegic for the rest of your life, what option would you have? I guess you don't mind dying on a cold winter night homeless and hungry. Or worse yet, if you had 3 children, a wife, and all of a sudden this happened to you, would you be ok with the same happening to them? Get real...

we should be happy with what we have right now, some places are even lower than us.

even if mcdonalds give us $6.50/H CAD compared tohk, they only get $8/h HKD. and if employers had to pay more, im guessing, they wouldnt hire as many people anymore...

Yes, what are you supposed to do? If you got hit by a bus on your way to work and became a quadripilegic for the rest of your life, what option would you have? I guess you don't mind dying on a cold winter night homeless and hungry. Or worse yet, if you had 3 children, a wife, and all of a sudden this happened to you, would you be ok with the same happening to them? Get real...

I would certainly help you my friend, that is what charity is all about -- through your church, your community, your family, your friends, national organizations or directly to anyone that needs your help. It is wonderful to be able to help people.
That is not what taxes should be for, however. Then it is the "government" that decides whom to help with your money that it forcefuly took away from you and squanders half of it along the way. I like the old fashioned charity way to help people much better.
The two richest men in the world (Gates and Buffet) just gave away all their money to foundations to help people. You did not have to tax them. :)

I would certainly help you my friend, that is what charity is all about -- through your church, your community, your family, your friends, national organizations or directly to anyone that needs your help. It is wonderful to be able to help people.
That is not what taxes should be for, however. Then it is the "government" that decides whom to help with your money that it forcefuly took away from you and squanders half of it along the way. I like the old fashioned charity way to help people much better.
The two richest men in the world (Gates and Buffet) just gave away all their money to foundations to help people. You did not have to tax them. :)

Too bad charity does not work. Lets look at the food bank for example, they barely have enough food to give to people who cant afford it. If getting food to people in a first world country is an issue, then you can clearly see that relying on charity does not work.
This is exactly what taxes should be for, as most people will not give money to others no matter what, and taxes are the only way to get it.
Thats good for them; but, unlike them, 95% of people don't have so much money that they don't know what to do with it.
Either way, taxes don't just pay for an individuals well being, but that of everyone. Would you pay someone to clean the street you live on every day if it was optional? How about fix a pothole or make a goverment building wheelchair accessible? I think not. See why taxes are needed either way?

I think this $6/hr "training" wage is absurd......................Even {get this} the Vancouver Sun who sleep with this government, even think they should scrape it . Infact they were against it from the beginning.
I have to admit I have never even heard, little alone met a person who is on the training wage.
The thing that is obscene is that Alberta within one year will have the lowest min rate in the country but rents are going thru the roof.

I think this $6/hr "training" wage is absurd......................Even {get this} the Vancouver Sun who sleep with this government, even think they should scrape it . Infact they were against it from the beginning.
I have to admit I have never even heard, little alone met a person who is on the training wage.
The thing that is obscene is that Alberta within one year will have the lowest min rate in the country but rents are going thru the roof.

Who in alberta gets paid minimum wage?

we should be happy with what we have right now, some places are even lower than us.

even if mcdonalds give us $6.50/H CAD compared tohk, they only get $8/h HKD. and if employers had to pay more, im guessing, they wouldnt hire as many people anymore...

Well said.

Yes, lets be business' bitch and cater to their every whim. Why stop there? Lets get rid of any form of money and let businesses supply us with food in exchange for work. If you don't work enough or have the flu, no food for you. :sly:

Sure. I'd rather be business' "bitch" than than a, "bitch" to the Communist, ahem, NDP Government. That includes BC Fed Sinclair who is in bed with them anyway. The whole organization is a thinly veiled arm of the NDP.

Sure. I'd rather be business' "bitch" than than a, "bitch" to the Communist, ahem, NDP Government. That includes BC Fed Sinclair who is in bed with them anyway. The whole organization is a thinly veiled arm of the NDP.

Waiting almost 2 months to post, hoping that I wouldn't be here, is just plain childish.
It is quite obvious you have been strongly influenced by McCarthyism or something of that extent, which is clouding your judgement of the definition of things like communism, NDP, trade unionism, etc. Is your dream to bring back the HBC so that way a company could manage the country?

Waiting almost 2 months to post, hoping that I wouldn't be here, is just plain childish.
It is quite obvious you have been strongly influenced by McCarthyism or something of that extent, which is clouding your judgement of the definition of things like communism, NDP, trade unionism, etc. Is your dream to bring back the HBC so that way a company could manage the country?

Not quite but thanks anyway. More like out of town a lot. As far as finding a difference between communism and the NDP.....still looking on that one. Just a fan of free enterprise, rather than a political group that stifles investment while trying to buy votes by expanding the public sector to gross proportions.

Is your dream to bring back the HBC so that way a company could manage the country?

Having a monopoly run everything is no good either. Go take a class in economics dimwit. This is not capitalism in the sense that capitalism relies on competition to reduce prices for consumers.

If no one is earning the training wage, perhaps it's a sign that the wage is useless legislation and should be scrapped? One size fits all would make more sense when the cost of living keeps rising everyday.

If no one is earning the training wage, perhaps it's a sign that the wage is useless legislation and should be scrapped? One size fits all would make more sense when the cost of living keeps rising everyday.

Actually, I'm earning the training wage at McDonald's. I'm still a high school student so it's fine, but I also work at Safeway. So it balances out.

Having a monopoly run everything is no good either. Go take a class in economics dimwit. This is not capitalism in the sense that capitalism relies on competition to reduce prices for consumers.

Did I suggest having a monopoly? I suggest reading before replying. Congrats on the name calling, I see you are thinking at a elementary school level...
FYI, if you actually ever took an economics class, you would know that competition among firms actually does reduce prices, as no firms earn economic profit; just rent. As the cost of production decreases, firms will lower their prices to stay competitive if they are not price takers.
The same neoclassical economic principles can be applied to the wage vs labour curve. There is a reason why minimum wage is in place, it ensures that people have a decent quality of life instead of having 100% employment and everyone earning $1 an hour.

for a raise, you EARN it, not telling the government raising it for you!
i started earning $8/h
three months later, im at $8.65/h
and im only 15
if you dont get a raise, maybe its your problem

Did I suggest having a monopoly? I suggest reading before replying.


Mentioning HBC managing the country. Hudson's Bay Company was in effect a monopoly.


FYI, if you actually ever took an economics class, you would know that competition among firms actually does reduce prices, as no firms earn economic profit; just rent.


Agreed


As the cost of production decreases, firms will lower their prices to stay competitive if they are not price takers.
The same neoclassical economic principles can be applied to the wage vs labour curve.


Sure, if you observe the labour curve individually. It is when both curves interact that you produce a dynamic market for wages.


There is a reason why minimum wage is in place, it ensures that people have a decent quality of life instead of having 100% employment and everyone earning $1 an hour.

If there was significant deflation in earnings, prices would simply have to drop accordingly because of the relationship between earning power and consumption. And even if you wish you debate this point, you still cannot deny the relationship between unemployment and the minimum wage. It is better to have those people with low reservation costs (i.e. students and young people) earning less than unemployed.

Mentioning HBC managing the country. Hudson's Bay Company was in effect a monopoly.

If you read what the guy wrote, you would notice that he was implying that this would be ideal; hence my reply.



Sure, if you observe the labour curve individually. It is when both curves interact that you produce a dynamic market for wages.


Ok, lets take China for example. A great example of pure economic capitalism with no safeguards. People work for pennies a day and barely have anything to eat (not all, but a huge majority)
While I agree the market may be dynamic, this is certainly only to the benefit of businesses. One mistake and you are on the streets with someone ready to replace you.


If there was significant deflation in earnings, prices would simply have to drop accordingly because of the relationship between earning power and consumption. And even if you wish you debate this point, you still cannot deny the relationship between unemployment and the minimum wage. It is better to have those people with low reservation costs (i.e. students and young people) earning less than unemployed.

Prices could drop initially, but cost of inputs would just lead to a decrease in supply, and hence drive prices up. While what you suggest may work globally, it certainly could not be applies to a single country (unless they are totally isolated from the rest of the world and self sufficient)
If you look at minimum wage from and economic standpoint, it actually increases the wage of people who don't get minimum wage, and increases unemployment for the entry level people. I would rather that people already working maintain a standard of living and a few percent unemployed, as compared to a large percent earning a small amount of income.

if you dont get a raise, maybe its your problem

Not really. If there's high unemployment and I'm cheap, I'll most likely never give you the raise. I'll just call it effective cost-control.