^^ Are those the old wooden buildings that we've been to 2 years ago? It was abandoned and I think it'll be demolished as far as what I've heard from the caretakers.

haayy if true, ambot lang jud ning Cebu City. way claro ang conservation prorams...or should i say, wa juy conservation program?

:bash:

faet

^^ Are those the old wooden buildings that we've been to 2 years ago? It was abandoned and I think it'll be demolished as far as what I've heard from the caretakers.

haayy if true, ambot lang jud ning Cebu City. way claro ang conservation prorams...or should i say, wa juy conservation program?

:bash:

faet

nice one! now what about the panatang makabayan in cebuano? hehehe

hehehe wa na gyud ko kabao ana dong. translate nalang nato tong tagalog apan saun man pud nato kung nalimot naman pud ko sa panatang makabayan.

nice one! now what about the panatang makabayan in cebuano? hehehe

hehehe wa na gyud ko kabao ana dong. translate nalang nato tong tagalog apan saun man pud nato kung nalimot naman pud ko sa panatang makabayan.

haayy if true, ambot lang jud ning Cebu City. way claro ang conservation prorams...or should i say, wa juy conservation program?

:bash:

faet

I heard politics about it...especially when it comes between Tomas Osmeña and Alvin Garcia. I'm referring to the conservation program. I think some people here have commented about the priorities and programs of the two administrations.

I think Arnold or some of the SSC people here took some pictures of the wooden houses in Kawit Point when we went there. I'll check my photos if it's still here.

haayy if true, ambot lang jud ning Cebu City. way claro ang conservation prorams...or should i say, wa juy conservation program?

:bash:

faet

I heard politics about it...especially when it comes between Tomas Osmeña and Alvin Garcia. I'm referring to the conservation program. I think some people here have commented about the priorities and programs of the two administrations.

I think Arnold or some of the SSC people here took some pictures of the wooden houses in Kawit Point when we went there. I'll check my photos if it's still here.

another question from out of the blue (and to the relief of those opposed to the topic, it's not about regionalism...yey :lol:)

it is said that Lapu-Lapu wielded enough power to threaten merchant ships plying the area and 'terrorized' the sea-routes around his domain...that must make the people in his village somewhat rich from pillaging and piracy, right?

sadly, i haven't heard of archeological digs conducted in Mactan Island, except for treasure hunts in Cordova...so I was wondering, were such digs ever conducted in Mactan? or are there plans to do so? and is the area traditionally held as the theater where Magellan's final battle was fought, the original site of Mactan?

another question from out of the blue (and to the relief of those opposed to the topic, it's not about regionalism...yey :lol:)

it is said that Lapu-Lapu wielded enough power to threaten merchant ships plying the area and 'terrorized' the sea-routes around his domain...that must make the people in his village somewhat rich from pillaging and piracy, right?

sadly, i haven't heard of archeological digs conducted in Mactan Island, except for treasure hunts in Cordova...so I was wondering, were such digs ever conducted in Mactan? or are there plans to do so? and is the area traditionally held as the theater where Magellan's final battle was fought, the original site of Mactan?

^^

Good that you mentioned it Nito..

Anyway, what can you guys say about some rumors that the "battle of Mactan" happened in Camotes Island?


.

^^

Good that you mentioned it Nito..

Anyway, what can you guys say about some rumors that the "battle of Mactan" happened in Camotes Island?


.

another question from out of the blue (and to the relief of those opposed to the topic, it's not about regionalism...yey :lol:)

it is said that Lapu-Lapu wielded enough power to threaten merchant ships plying the area and 'terrorized' the sea-routes around his domain...that must make the people in his village somewhat rich from pillaging and piracy, right?




this is one of the speculations about him...strangely enough, the spaniards who were with Legazpi---even Legazpi himself---do not seem to mention what happened to him...he is virtually absent in the records. perhaps due to the fact that the Spaniards treated him as if he were a common criminal for killing magellan.

what we know of are the whereabouts of Humabon and his kin or barangay members. there is mention of his nephew Tupas, taking over from him. the same Tupas would early on wage a guerrilla-type skirmish with Legazpi's men to no avail.

but about lapu-lapu and his descendants? wa jud sa eksena. and so we can all speculate who he really was.

there is even a strain of thought that says that he was really from faraway Mactang, Camotes and that his stay in Mactan was just for opportunistic piracy for trading ships from time to time. who knows what the truth is? paet.



sadly, i haven't heard of archeological digs conducted in Mactan Island, except for treasure hunts in Cordova...so I was wondering, were such digs ever conducted in Mactan? or are there plans to do so? and is the area traditionally held as the theater where Magellan's final battle was fought, the original site of Mactan?


Mactan is sadly the most looted archaeological place in the whole world if ever there was one. On that island, you have the makings of a disaster. Its very thin soil cover (no depeer than 6 to 12 inches in most parts) meant that any signs of settlements would be eroded over time, say, 150 to 200 years, once vegetation was stripped away for farming, housing, etc.

Throughout the 1960s and 1980s, there were reports of so many burials exposed there when houses were built or roads were opened. This went on in fact up to the 1990s and maybe it is still going on, although sporadically, when people dig holes for their residential septic tanks.

I have heard of one incident when almost a hectare of property was bought by a collector who then looted the whole place, got so much gold, ceramics, shields, spears etc. etc. etc.

So, if you are looking for evidence of Lapu-lapu and his kabanay there, that would be very, very, very, futile right now.

Well, except perhaps for that one small park where the Magellan and Lapu-lapu monuments are found. Perhaps wa pa na ma-loot. Kana na lang jud ang nahibilin. And the place where the church is built upon in Opon, as well as perhaps in Cordova.

:bash:

another question from out of the blue (and to the relief of those opposed to the topic, it's not about regionalism...yey :lol:)

it is said that Lapu-Lapu wielded enough power to threaten merchant ships plying the area and 'terrorized' the sea-routes around his domain...that must make the people in his village somewhat rich from pillaging and piracy, right?




this is one of the speculations about him...strangely enough, the spaniards who were with Legazpi---even Legazpi himself---do not seem to mention what happened to him...he is virtually absent in the records. perhaps due to the fact that the Spaniards treated him as if he were a common criminal for killing magellan.

what we know of are the whereabouts of Humabon and his kin or barangay members. there is mention of his nephew Tupas, taking over from him. the same Tupas would early on wage a guerrilla-type skirmish with Legazpi's men to no avail.

but about lapu-lapu and his descendants? wa jud sa eksena. and so we can all speculate who he really was.

there is even a strain of thought that says that he was really from faraway Mactang, Camotes and that his stay in Mactan was just for opportunistic piracy for trading ships from time to time. who knows what the truth is? paet.



sadly, i haven't heard of archeological digs conducted in Mactan Island, except for treasure hunts in Cordova...so I was wondering, were such digs ever conducted in Mactan? or are there plans to do so? and is the area traditionally held as the theater where Magellan's final battle was fought, the original site of Mactan?


Mactan is sadly the most looted archaeological place in the whole world if ever there was one. On that island, you have the makings of a disaster. Its very thin soil cover (no depeer than 6 to 12 inches in most parts) meant that any signs of settlements would be eroded over time, say, 150 to 200 years, once vegetation was stripped away for farming, housing, etc.

Throughout the 1960s and 1980s, there were reports of so many burials exposed there when houses were built or roads were opened. This went on in fact up to the 1990s and maybe it is still going on, although sporadically, when people dig holes for their residential septic tanks.

I have heard of one incident when almost a hectare of property was bought by a collector who then looted the whole place, got so much gold, ceramics, shields, spears etc. etc. etc.

So, if you are looking for evidence of Lapu-lapu and his kabanay there, that would be very, very, very, futile right now.

Well, except perhaps for that one small park where the Magellan and Lapu-lapu monuments are found. Perhaps wa pa na ma-loot. Kana na lang jud ang nahibilin. And the place where the church is built upon in Opon, as well as perhaps in Cordova.

:bash:

^^^^ Hola! Has there been any tangible evidence found thus far that the Sri Vijaya Empire did in fact reach the Visayas? If so, what artifacts were found? Because most Hindu/Indian inspired civilisations are monument builders and these buildings can be found in Bali but not here. This had been discussed before in the Cebuano language thread 1 but I found the discussions inconclusive and unsatisfactory.

Furthermore, is the Visayan alibata different than the Luzon alibata? Is it viable enough to be transformed into some form of rudimentary script for tourist promotion signages? :) Thank you

^^^^ Hola! Has there been any tangible evidence found thus far that the Sri Vijaya Empire did in fact reach the Visayas? If so, what artifacts were found? Because most Hindu/Indian inspired civilisations are monument builders and these buildings can be found in Bali but not here. This had been discussed before in the Cebuano language thread 1 but I found the discussions inconclusive and unsatisfactory.

Furthermore, is the Visayan alibata different than the Luzon alibata? Is it viable enough to be transformed into some form of rudimentary script for tourist promotion signages? :) Thank you

^^


yes, there is no conclusive evidence that the Visayas was part of the Sri Vijaya empire, not even as a set of peripheral tributary settlements. that is all in the imagination of Jose Marco and the fake Maragtas and Kalantiaw codes etc. etc. plus the fake "Ten Bornean Datus" story which he also invented.


you are right. The absence of monumental structures clearly shows that the influence of sri Vijaya and Madjapahit on the Visayas was not so great. The setttlements here were not even united under one ruler who could command them to construct monumental structures to the divine providence, whatever they called him, her or it. If the influence was strong, the system of governance in those empires should have been well appreciated as to have been copied here or, if we were under these empires, implemented here.


As regards the baybayin (the term alibata is i think erroneous and was coined in the Spanish period, perhaps by the Spaniards), i think it would be diffcult to use them now for signages unless everyone is taught to read baybayin first in their early childhood development.

the differences between the syllabaries used in the country are not that great, though.

^^


yes, there is no conclusive evidence that the Visayas was part of the Sri Vijaya empire, not even as a set of peripheral tributary settlements. that is all in the imagination of Jose Marco and the fake Maragtas and Kalantiaw codes etc. etc. plus the fake "Ten Bornean Datus" story which he also invented.


you are right. The absence of monumental structures clearly shows that the influence of sri Vijaya and Madjapahit on the Visayas was not so great. The setttlements here were not even united under one ruler who could command them to construct monumental structures to the divine providence, whatever they called him, her or it. If the influence was strong, the system of governance in those empires should have been well appreciated as to have been copied here or, if we were under these empires, implemented here.


As regards the baybayin (the term alibata is i think erroneous and was coined in the Spanish period, perhaps by the Spaniards), i think it would be diffcult to use them now for signages unless everyone is taught to read baybayin first in their early childhood development.

the differences between the syllabaries used in the country are not that great, though.

^^such a shame...i can read Hangul but not a single letter of Baybayin :(

what about the usual fare they spoon-feed to elementary school kids regarding 3 waves of migration, Aetas, Indonesians, and Malays in that order...is there any truth to this?

^^such a shame...i can read Hangul but not a single letter of Baybayin :(

what about the usual fare they spoon-feed to elementary school kids regarding 3 waves of migration, Aetas, Indonesians, and Malays in that order...is there any truth to this?

@archaeologue,
Thank you, just as I had strongly suspected. We were on the outer fringes of everybody else's empires (Chinese, Sri Vijayan, Madjapahit); hence we were nothing more than a collection of fishing villages on remote islands - too remote even for our other Asian brethren.

Baybayin can be useful for various art forms - tattoos, wall decors, tourist brochures and other related articles. Albeit not necessarily for normal written use.

@archaeologue,
Thank you, just as I had strongly suspected. We were on the outer fringes of everybody else's empires (Chinese, Sri Vijayan, Madjapahit); hence we were nothing more than a collection of fishing villages on remote islands - too remote even for our other Asian brethren.

Baybayin can be useful for various art forms - tattoos, wall decors, tourist brochures and other related articles. Albeit not necessarily for normal written use.

^^such a shame...i can read Hangul but not a single letter of Baybayin :(

what about the usual fare they spoon-feed to elementary school kids regarding 3 waves of migration, Aetas, Indonesians, and Malays in that order...is there any truth to this?

Wasn't this already been defunct since the 1970's? The Indonesians and Malays came from the Philippines 1st before going South.

The early migration According to a paper, The search for the origins of 'Melayu', by Leonard Y Andaya, published by the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, October 2001, the first groups of humans, some of whom eventually became Malays, began migrating out of Taiwan in 4000 -- 3000 BCE. Others have suggested eastern China as the springboard. They first went over to Luzon and other Philippine islands and then by about 2000 BCE, reached northern Borneo. Other groups drifted southwards to Mindanao, Sulawesi, the Malukus, and eventually eastern and central Java.

^^such a shame...i can read Hangul but not a single letter of Baybayin :(

what about the usual fare they spoon-feed to elementary school kids regarding 3 waves of migration, Aetas, Indonesians, and Malays in that order...is there any truth to this?

Wasn't this already been defunct since the 1970's? The Indonesians and Malays came from the Philippines 1st before going South.

The early migration According to a paper, The search for the origins of 'Melayu', by Leonard Y Andaya, published by the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, October 2001, the first groups of humans, some of whom eventually became Malays, began migrating out of Taiwan in 4000 -- 3000 BCE. Others have suggested eastern China as the springboard. They first went over to Luzon and other Philippine islands and then by about 2000 BCE, reached northern Borneo. Other groups drifted southwards to Mindanao, Sulawesi, the Malukus, and eventually eastern and central Java.

^^


yes, there is no conclusive evidence that the Visayas was part of the Sri Vijaya empire, not even as a set of peripheral tributary settlements. that is all in the imagination of Jose Marco and the fake Maragtas and Kalantiaw codes etc. etc. plus the fake "Ten Bornean Datus" story which he also invented.


That leads me to another question,

I thought the Maragtas legends were of the Monteclaro and that priest from Central Panay and several 6 accounts coming out of nowhere?

But in any case, according to F.Landa Jocano, it is still quite inconclusive whether it is "genuinely fake" or "genuinely true" for one it has been long accepted by the historians and anthropologists that this is not "hard history" or an event that really happened. But it has somehow, well a bit (if we are not to follow the Von Rankian, positivist school of thought in history) coming from oral history because Monteclaro did stated that "it came from the old people." So possibly, it may not be of hard history but more of a folklore or a myth. The event may not be true but possibly some fragments of truth are behind it in so far as collective memory. But anyway, I'm not here to defend the Maragtas legend because as far as majority the Western Visayan historians and anthropologists would dismiss it either as folklore or not true at all...although disproved by William Henry Scott and F.Landa Jocano, but it thus persist in Western Visayan thought. Probably because of its popularity....that reminds me of Glenn May's "Inventing a Hero" book. :D

IMO, one of the best things that may give us a hint of West Visayan history is of the Sulod Bukidnon ethno-linguistic group located in Central Panay. They still hold the old traditions of pre-Hispanic Panayanon and even one of the longest epics in Philippine folklore, the Hinilawod. It may give some hints on how pre-Hispanic Visayans were.

This is the problem of pre-Hispanic Visayas. Evidence is so scarce that there are so many questions and probably hoaxes that would spring out in order to answer who we really are and what are we? Good thing, the aid of archaeology is there to help answer the questions of our past, yet there is still missing in our history that could at least get a clearer picture of us before the Spaniards came, like the ones of India, China and European Civilizations.

Anyway, I apologize if I gave some Western Visayan lecture from my fragmented thoughts. For this thread is to deal with Cebuano heritage, although the great Visayan question still lingers.

^^


yes, there is no conclusive evidence that the Visayas was part of the Sri Vijaya empire, not even as a set of peripheral tributary settlements. that is all in the imagination of Jose Marco and the fake Maragtas and Kalantiaw codes etc. etc. plus the fake "Ten Bornean Datus" story which he also invented.


That leads me to another question,

I thought the Maragtas legends were of the Monteclaro and that priest from Central Panay and several 6 accounts coming out of nowhere?

But in any case, according to F.Landa Jocano, it is still quite inconclusive whether it is "genuinely fake" or "genuinely true" for one it has been long accepted by the historians and anthropologists that this is not "hard history" or an event that really happened. But it has somehow, well a bit (if we are not to follow the Von Rankian, positivist school of thought in history) coming from oral history because Monteclaro did stated that "it came from the old people." So possibly, it may not be of hard history but more of a folklore or a myth. The event may not be true but possibly some fragments of truth are behind it in so far as collective memory. But anyway, I'm not here to defend the Maragtas legend because as far as majority the Western Visayan historians and anthropologists would dismiss it either as folklore or not true at all...although disproved by William Henry Scott and F.Landa Jocano, but it thus persist in Western Visayan thought. Probably because of its popularity....that reminds me of Glenn May's "Inventing a Hero" book. :D

IMO, one of the best things that may give us a hint of West Visayan history is of the Sulod Bukidnon ethno-linguistic group located in Central Panay. They still hold the old traditions of pre-Hispanic Panayanon and even one of the longest epics in Philippine folklore, the Hinilawod. It may give some hints on how pre-Hispanic Visayans were.

This is the problem of pre-Hispanic Visayas. Evidence is so scarce that there are so many questions and probably hoaxes that would spring out in order to answer who we really are and what are we? Good thing, the aid of archaeology is there to help answer the questions of our past, yet there is still missing in our history that could at least get a clearer picture of us before the Spaniards came, like the ones of India, China and European Civilizations.

Anyway, I apologize if I gave some Western Visayan lecture from my fragmented thoughts. For this thread is to deal with Cebuano heritage, although the great Visayan question still lingers.

Now I've been thinking (and even some of the hardest of the Von Rankian/positivist professors of history) why history majors hasn't taken several MORE units in the current curriculum that would enable them to understand Spanish language more often? Because more likely, they will and will encounter Spanish documents later in their researches and some activities.

Thanks @archeologue. Will be looking for that book of Immanuel Wallerstein.

DepEd does not have enough sufficient funds and that most Universities or schools would cater more to the other majors where one get payed more! :nuts:

Now I've been thinking (and even some of the hardest of the Von Rankian/positivist professors of history) why history majors hasn't taken several MORE units in the current curriculum that would enable them to understand Spanish language more often? Because more likely, they will and will encounter Spanish documents later in their researches and some activities.

Thanks @archeologue. Will be looking for that book of Immanuel Wallerstein.

DepEd does not have enough sufficient funds and that most Universities or schools would cater more to the other majors where one get payed more! :nuts:

^^ Hahaha!!! So true, in our case in the state university, it has been temporarily frozen (i mean BA History) because of that government policy.

Anyway, for the Carolinians here. I would like to use the Library Services of the University of San Carlos, both the main library and possibly the Cebuano Studies Center. I would like to visit here this upcoming Monday. Do non-Carolinian students need to pay a fee or a letter coming from the school librarian in order to use some of the materials in the library? Thanks! :)

^^ Hahaha!!! So true, in our case in the state university, it has been temporarily frozen (i mean BA History) because of that government policy.

Anyway, for the Carolinians here. I would like to use the Library Services of the University of San Carlos, both the main library and possibly the Cebuano Studies Center. I would like to visit here this upcoming Monday. Do non-Carolinian students need to pay a fee or a letter coming from the school librarian in order to use some of the materials in the library? Thanks! :)

Wasn't this already been defunct since the 1970's? The Indonesians and Malays came from the Philippines 1st before going South.

The early migration According to a paper, The search for the origins of 'Melayu', by Leonard Y Andaya, published by the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, October 2001, the first groups of humans, some of whom eventually became Malays, began migrating out of Taiwan in 4000 -- 3000 BCE. Others have suggested eastern China as the springboard. They first went over to Luzon and other Philippine islands and then by about 2000 BCE, reached northern Borneo. Other groups drifted southwards to Mindanao, Sulawesi, the Malukus, and eventually eastern and central Java.


Exactly. The wave theory of migration was popularized by H. Otley Beyer and taken on by Gregorio Zaide in the history books he wrote. God rest their souls but the position they took was debunked a long time ago.

Now, with regard to the theory above, I think this is what the archaeologist Peter Bellwood is trying to prove with his excavations in Batanes, the Austronesian migration patterns.

My work, unfortunately, is far, far, far too closer to the historic period for obvious reasons (read: no laboratories for archaeochemical and osteological analyses in this country)...

Wasn't this already been defunct since the 1970's? The Indonesians and Malays came from the Philippines 1st before going South.

The early migration According to a paper, The search for the origins of 'Melayu', by Leonard Y Andaya, published by the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, October 2001, the first groups of humans, some of whom eventually became Malays, began migrating out of Taiwan in 4000 -- 3000 BCE. Others have suggested eastern China as the springboard. They first went over to Luzon and other Philippine islands and then by about 2000 BCE, reached northern Borneo. Other groups drifted southwards to Mindanao, Sulawesi, the Malukus, and eventually eastern and central Java.


Exactly. The wave theory of migration was popularized by H. Otley Beyer and taken on by Gregorio Zaide in the history books he wrote. God rest their souls but the position they took was debunked a long time ago.

Now, with regard to the theory above, I think this is what the archaeologist Peter Bellwood is trying to prove with his excavations in Batanes, the Austronesian migration patterns.

My work, unfortunately, is far, far, far too closer to the historic period for obvious reasons (read: no laboratories for archaeochemical and osteological analyses in this country)...

@archaeologue,
Thank you, just as I had strongly suspected. We were on the outer fringes of everybody else's empires (Chinese, Sri Vijayan, Madjapahit); hence we were nothing more than a collection of fishing villages on remote islands - too remote even for our other Asian brethren.




No, actually not.

What I mean is that the Visayan islands, as well as the so-called "kingdom" of Butuan, for example, were standing on their on as "equal" trading partners with these empires you mention.

Indeed we were physically too far to be controlled or forced to give tribute.

But this does not mean that we did not trade with those peripheral settlements within the orbit of the Sri Vijaya and Madjapahit empires. We surely did. We do have a lot of words that are Indo-Javanic, mostly those words used in trading: for example, count names like usa, duha tulo and so on...or the words for islands, pulu or pulo...etc.

There is in fact the possiblity that some of the members of the fleet of the eunuch admiral Zheng He reached Sulu inasmuch as they were in nearby Borneo.

Now, if only Sulu and Tawi-tawi were open to archaeological research (which will probably never happen), we would probably find evidences of Hindus or at least Javenese artisans and craftsmen that settled there. The Buturan image now in the Chicago Field Museum as well as the now-lost gruda image were excavated in the Philippines and attest to some Indo-Javanic influence. There are also a significant number of Hindu-based deities rendered in gold that form part of the Surigao treasure.


The Laguna copperplate, translated by Antoon Postma, shows a language (and script) that is in fact Sanskrit-based but not totally Sanskrit and may have been the language of trading used all over the islands that had trading relations with these empires.


Our word for god, "Bathala" for example is from the Sanskrit "Bhattara", which is lie saying "provider" or divine providence or something like that.


In sum, we were not isolated at all. We were trading with these people, most probably on an equal footing in the way that we also traded with Arabs and Chinese.

@archaeologue,
Thank you, just as I had strongly suspected. We were on the outer fringes of everybody else's empires (Chinese, Sri Vijayan, Madjapahit); hence we were nothing more than a collection of fishing villages on remote islands - too remote even for our other Asian brethren.




No, actually not.

What I mean is that the Visayan islands, as well as the so-called "kingdom" of Butuan, for example, were standing on their on as "equal" trading partners with these empires you mention.

Indeed we were physically too far to be controlled or forced to give tribute.

But this does not mean that we did not trade with those peripheral settlements within the orbit of the Sri Vijaya and Madjapahit empires. We surely did. We do have a lot of words that are Indo-Javanic, mostly those words used in trading: for example, count names like usa, duha tulo and so on...or the words for islands, pulu or pulo...etc.

There is in fact the possiblity that some of the members of the fleet of the eunuch admiral Zheng He reached Sulu inasmuch as they were in nearby Borneo.

Now, if only Sulu and Tawi-tawi were open to archaeological research (which will probably never happen), we would probably find evidences of Hindus or at least Javenese artisans and craftsmen that settled there. The Buturan image now in the Chicago Field Museum as well as the now-lost gruda image were excavated in the Philippines and attest to some Indo-Javanic influence. There are also a significant number of Hindu-based deities rendered in gold that form part of the Surigao treasure.


The Laguna copperplate, translated by Antoon Postma, shows a language (and script) that is in fact Sanskrit-based but not totally Sanskrit and may have been the language of trading used all over the islands that had trading relations with these empires.


Our word for god, "Bathala" for example is from the Sanskrit "Bhattara", which is lie saying "provider" or divine providence or something like that.


In sum, we were not isolated at all. We were trading with these people, most probably on an equal footing in the way that we also traded with Arabs and Chinese.

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D

That leads me to another question,

[QUOTE]

IMO, one of the best things that may give us a hint of West Visayan history is of the Sulod Bukidnon ethno-linguistic group located in Central Panay. They still hold the old traditions of pre-Hispanic Panayanon and even one of the longest epics in Philippine folklore, the Hinilawod. It may give some hints on how pre-Hispanic Visayans were.

This is the problem of pre-Hispanic Visayas. Evidence is so scarce that there are so many questions and probably hoaxes that would spring out in order to answer who we really are and what are we? Good thing, the aid of archaeology is there to help answer the questions of our past, yet there is still missing in our history that could at least get a clearer picture of us before the Spaniards came, like the ones of India, China and European Civilizations.



F. Landa Jocano sat on my master's thesis panel so i will not belittle his work...lolz... but i hear questions in some quarters about the so-called "Sulod society"...The jury is out. I really do not know what is genuine folklore and what is fakelore.

That leads me to another question,

[QUOTE]

IMO, one of the best things that may give us a hint of West Visayan history is of the Sulod Bukidnon ethno-linguistic group located in Central Panay. They still hold the old traditions of pre-Hispanic Panayanon and even one of the longest epics in Philippine folklore, the Hinilawod. It may give some hints on how pre-Hispanic Visayans were.

This is the problem of pre-Hispanic Visayas. Evidence is so scarce that there are so many questions and probably hoaxes that would spring out in order to answer who we really are and what are we? Good thing, the aid of archaeology is there to help answer the questions of our past, yet there is still missing in our history that could at least get a clearer picture of us before the Spaniards came, like the ones of India, China and European Civilizations.



F. Landa Jocano sat on my master's thesis panel so i will not belittle his work...lolz... but i hear questions in some quarters about the so-called "Sulod society"...The jury is out. I really do not know what is genuine folklore and what is fakelore.

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D

Okz. I will invite you if we push through with Bantayan and Boljoon.

I actually need someone who is an expert on shells, both marine and aquatic.

The SoAn department actually has an osteologist trained in the U.S. (and also trained by another osteologist from Australian National U.).

He is the one who analyzes bones for me, especially in terms of pathologies. There is a protocol to be observed when analyzing excavated human remains and he is the one who does this.

What we lack are laboratory facilities for thin sectioning of hard tissues, and funds for MRI. This would really, really help in determining diet and microsopic evidence of pathologies.

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D

Okz. I will invite you if we push through with Bantayan and Boljoon.

I actually need someone who is an expert on shells, both marine and aquatic.

The SoAn department actually has an osteologist trained in the U.S. (and also trained by another osteologist from Australian National U.).

He is the one who analyzes bones for me, especially in terms of pathologies. There is a protocol to be observed when analyzing excavated human remains and he is the one who does this.

What we lack are laboratory facilities for thin sectioning of hard tissues, and funds for MRI. This would really, really help in determining diet and microsopic evidence of pathologies.

[quote=habagatcentral1;25482398]That leads me to another question,



F. Landa Jocano sat on my master's thesis panel so i will not belittle his work...lolz... but i hear questions in some quarters about the so-called "Sulod society"...The jury is out. I really do not know what is genuine folklore and what is fakelore.

Wow! Nosebleed! Unta ako man, pero karon morag kahilakon na pod ko sa MA. :cry:

By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano? What happened? I am not updated with these things except that I know some Panayanon folklore derived from these people and not the Ten Bornean Datus or the Maragtas.

@Bai Archaeologue, I hope I can meet you in Cebu. I'll be there this Saturday all the way till Tuesday. Will be dropping by USC-Main because I have to continue my research even if I am away from my home school.

[quote=habagatcentral1;25482398]That leads me to another question,



F. Landa Jocano sat on my master's thesis panel so i will not belittle his work...lolz... but i hear questions in some quarters about the so-called "Sulod society"...The jury is out. I really do not know what is genuine folklore and what is fakelore.

Wow! Nosebleed! Unta ako man, pero karon morag kahilakon na pod ko sa MA. :cry:

By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano? What happened? I am not updated with these things except that I know some Panayanon folklore derived from these people and not the Ten Bornean Datus or the Maragtas.

@Bai Archaeologue, I hope I can meet you in Cebu. I'll be there this Saturday all the way till Tuesday. Will be dropping by USC-Main because I have to continue my research even if I am away from my home school.

[quote=archaeologue;25521324]

Wow! Nosebleed! Unta ako man, pero karon morag kahilakon na pod ko sa MA. :cry:

By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano?

@Bai Archaeologue, I hope I can meet you in Cebu. I'll be there this Saturday all the way till Tuesday. Will be dropping by USC-Main because I have to continue my research even if I am away from my home school.


Sayang, pagka-bz nako. I just met with National Museum people this afternoon regrding my column on Plaza Independencia where I prodded the city government to do something about the subway excavation project and the loss of heritage.

We have a meeting scheduled with the project management so that a monitoring system can be instituted para mabantayan jud ang final portion of the plza that will be excavated for the subway. This will be on Tuesday. Mondays di ko pwede kay regular meetings at the CApitol with the gov.

[quote=archaeologue;25521324]

Wow! Nosebleed! Unta ako man, pero karon morag kahilakon na pod ko sa MA. :cry:

By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano?

@Bai Archaeologue, I hope I can meet you in Cebu. I'll be there this Saturday all the way till Tuesday. Will be dropping by USC-Main because I have to continue my research even if I am away from my home school.


Sayang, pagka-bz nako. I just met with National Museum people this afternoon regrding my column on Plaza Independencia where I prodded the city government to do something about the subway excavation project and the loss of heritage.

We have a meeting scheduled with the project management so that a monitoring system can be instituted para mabantayan jud ang final portion of the plza that will be excavated for the subway. This will be on Tuesday. Mondays di ko pwede kay regular meetings at the CApitol with the gov.

^^ Aw, ok. That's fine. Hopefully next time Sir Joebers. :)

^^ Aw, ok. That's fine. Hopefully next time Sir Joebers. :)

^^ Aw, ok. That's fine. Hopefully next time Sir Joebers. :)

yup...but if i have time i might drop in on u at Cebuano studies center. if you see me, duola lang ko. i won't bite.
:lol:

^^ Aw, ok. That's fine. Hopefully next time Sir Joebers. :)

yup...but if i have time i might drop in on u at Cebuano studies center. if you see me, duola lang ko. i won't bite.
:lol:

Okz. I will invite you if we push through with Bantayan and Boljoon.

I actually need someone who is an expert on shells, both marine and aquatic.

The SoAn department actually has an osteologist trained in the U.S. (and also trained by another osteologist from Australian National U.).

He is the one who analyzes bones for me, especially in terms of pathologies. There is a protocol to be observed when analyzing excavated human remains and he is the one who does this.

What we lack are laboratory facilities for thin sectioning of hard tissues, and funds for MRI. This would really, really help in determining diet and microsopic evidence of pathologies.


Oh this is sad because I'm into human anatomy since my training in Biology involved human cadavers. Cebudoc is premed man gud unlike USC, hehehe.

Anyway, with regards to thin sectioning of hard tissues, I think there's a laboratory in Manila that does this (but I'm not really sure) because Cebu Doc's Anatomy Department orders boxes of slides of human tissues that have been sliced very, very thin. The technique involves freezing these tissues before slicing it.

Under the microscope, you can then study the cells, the nerves, etc. of various sections of tissues.

Okz. I will invite you if we push through with Bantayan and Boljoon.

I actually need someone who is an expert on shells, both marine and aquatic.

The SoAn department actually has an osteologist trained in the U.S. (and also trained by another osteologist from Australian National U.).

He is the one who analyzes bones for me, especially in terms of pathologies. There is a protocol to be observed when analyzing excavated human remains and he is the one who does this.

What we lack are laboratory facilities for thin sectioning of hard tissues, and funds for MRI. This would really, really help in determining diet and microsopic evidence of pathologies.


Oh this is sad because I'm into human anatomy since my training in Biology involved human cadavers. Cebudoc is premed man gud unlike USC, hehehe.

Anyway, with regards to thin sectioning of hard tissues, I think there's a laboratory in Manila that does this (but I'm not really sure) because Cebu Doc's Anatomy Department orders boxes of slides of human tissues that have been sliced very, very thin. The technique involves freezing these tissues before slicing it.

Under the microscope, you can then study the cells, the nerves, etc. of various sections of tissues.

[quote=archaeologue;25521324]



By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano? What happened? I am not updated with these things except that I know some Panayanon folklore derived from these people and not the Ten Bornean Datus or the Maragtas.




it's the Jocano take on "Sulod society"

[quote=archaeologue;25521324]



By the way, what are the "so-called questions" of the "Sulod society?" Are you referring to the Sulod Bukidnon of Central Panay or the Sulod society as implied by Jocano? What happened? I am not updated with these things except that I know some Panayanon folklore derived from these people and not the Ten Bornean Datus or the Maragtas.




it's the Jocano take on "Sulod society"

@Bernie

Hi Berns, kuyog nya ta naa man diay ka.


..

@Bernie

Hi Berns, kuyog nya ta naa man diay ka.


..

^^ Well, as revealed. Ogma naa na ko diha, hehe!!! :D (Sorry for the OT) :D

^^ Well, as revealed. Ogma naa na ko diha, hehe!!! :D (Sorry for the OT) :D

Oh this is sad because I'm into human anatomy since my training in Biology involved human cadavers. Cebudoc is premed man gud unlike USC, hehehe.

Anyway, with regards to thin sectioning of hard tissues, I think there's a laboratory in Manila that does this (but I'm not really sure) because Cebu Doc's Anatomy Department orders boxes of slides of human tissues that have been sliced very, very thin. The technique involves freezing these tissues before slicing it.

Under the microscope, you can then study the cells, the nerves, etc. of various sections of tissues.

There is actually a doctoral student, now studying in Japan, who has proposed to include the 26 burials from Boljoon for her osteological work. I think she will start working on getting the samples for thin sectioning in March next year.

I await with excitement the results of her work.

:banana:

Oh this is sad because I'm into human anatomy since my training in Biology involved human cadavers. Cebudoc is premed man gud unlike USC, hehehe.

Anyway, with regards to thin sectioning of hard tissues, I think there's a laboratory in Manila that does this (but I'm not really sure) because Cebu Doc's Anatomy Department orders boxes of slides of human tissues that have been sliced very, very thin. The technique involves freezing these tissues before slicing it.

Under the microscope, you can then study the cells, the nerves, etc. of various sections of tissues.

There is actually a doctoral student, now studying in Japan, who has proposed to include the 26 burials from Boljoon for her osteological work. I think she will start working on getting the samples for thin sectioning in March next year.

I await with excitement the results of her work.

:banana:

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D


Basta i will keep you posted of develoments, nold. Maau pod nga ma-kaexperience ka og analyze sa mga bones nga nalubong na...

if you can help out especially sa pathology, mas maau pa jud kaau.

i might excavate a site in bantayan by middle of october or early november.

:banana:

^^

Archaeologue, since I'm a biologist, I can help you in your excavations next time.

I can also double as a medic in case of emergencies because I'm also a nurse. Haha.


:D :D :D


Basta i will keep you posted of develoments, nold. Maau pod nga ma-kaexperience ka og analyze sa mga bones nga nalubong na...

if you can help out especially sa pathology, mas maau pa jud kaau.

i might excavate a site in bantayan by middle of october or early november.

:banana:

^^ pwede sad ko mo-apil sa digging

I used to work sa Hacienda kusog ko mo kawot ug kanal for irragation..

Pwede sad ko mo PR sa mga tawo nga magsinamok sa kawot ka tourguide man sad ko tag radio pa jud hehehe... migawas akong pagka kunyo..naka panghambog...

Sir bason naay training unya we can get a certificate...

^^ pwede sad ko mo-apil sa digging

I used to work sa Hacienda kusog ko mo kawot ug kanal for irragation..

Pwede sad ko mo PR sa mga tawo nga magsinamok sa kawot ka tourguide man sad ko tag radio pa jud hehehe... migawas akong pagka kunyo..naka panghambog...

Sir bason naay training unya we can get a certificate...

No, actually not.

What I mean is that the Visayan islands, as well as the so-called "kingdom" of Butuan, for example, were standing on their on as "equal" trading partners with these empires you mention.

Indeed we were physically too far to be controlled or forced to give tribute.

But this does not mean that we did not trade with those peripheral settlements within the orbit of the Sri Vijaya and Madjapahit empires. We surely did. We do have a lot of words that are Indo-Javanic, mostly those words used in trading: for example, count names like usa, duha tulo and so on...or the words for islands, pulu or pulo...etc.

There is in fact the possiblity that some of the members of the fleet of the eunuch admiral Zheng He reached Sulu inasmuch as they were in nearby Borneo.

Now, if only Sulu and Tawi-tawi were open to archaeological research (which will probably never happen), we would probably find evidences of Hindus or at least Javenese artisans and craftsmen that settled there. The Buturan image now in the Chicago Field Museum as well as the now-lost gruda image were excavated in the Philippines and attest to some Indo-Javanic influence. There are also a significant number of Hindu-based deities rendered in gold that form part of the Surigao treasure.


The Laguna copperplate, translated by Antoon Postma, shows a language (and script) that is in fact Sanskrit-based but not totally Sanskrit and may have been the language of trading used all over the islands that had trading relations with these empires.


Our word for god, "Bathala" for example is from the Sanskrit "Bhattara", which is lie saying "provider" or divine providence or something like that.


In sum, we were not isolated at all. We were trading with these people, most probably on an equal footing in the way that we also traded with Arabs and Chinese. That is correct: duwa in Bahasa Melayu is the same as in Cebuano. Pulau in Bahasa is pulu in Cebuano. Makan in modern Bahasa is Makan in ancient Cebuano (to eat); Ikan in Bahasa is fish in ancient Cebuano.

My point is, do we have something at a par with the ancient Thai, Khmer, § Burmese? Something we can rally behind to and proudly point to as our very own? Instead of having to resort to prevarication § fakery like the Maragtas § Kalantiaw? In line with what bai habagat wrote, "Inventing a hero"... or "Inventing a fake heritage" is, to my mind, awful § shameful. Using these fabled and mythic stories for children's stories are alright. Or using them in the same context as the Viking sagas of Beowulf or the Illiad or the Odyssey are ok.

What is not ok is for Filipinos to continually grasp at empty straws and use flimsy indigenous tales as a rallying point for nationalism. The proverbial splitting of hairs just to "have"/ for the sake of having something, anything, for that matter! Til such a time that modern archaeology can dig up something substantial, it is my belief that our islands were viewed by the ancient Asians as something like how we view Papua New Guinea or Timbuktu today, remote and exotic (even by other Asian's standards). I am almost tempted to ask our Nationalists, what exactly are they crowing about anyway?

Filipinos cannot rally behind something which never occured to build up national pride, pride of place or pride of culture. IMHO :)

No, actually not.

What I mean is that the Visayan islands, as well as the so-called "kingdom" of Butuan, for example, were standing on their on as "equal" trading partners with these empires you mention.

Indeed we were physically too far to be controlled or forced to give tribute.

But this does not mean that we did not trade with those peripheral settlements within the orbit of the Sri Vijaya and Madjapahit empires. We surely did. We do have a lot of words that are Indo-Javanic, mostly those words used in trading: for example, count names like usa, duha tulo and so on...or the words for islands, pulu or pulo...etc.

There is in fact the possiblity that some of the members of the fleet of the eunuch admiral Zheng He reached Sulu inasmuch as they were in nearby Borneo.

Now, if only Sulu and Tawi-tawi were open to archaeological research (which will probably never happen), we would probably find evidences of Hindus or at least Javenese artisans and craftsmen that settled there. The Buturan image now in the Chicago Field Museum as well as the now-lost gruda image were excavated in the Philippines and attest to some Indo-Javanic influence. There are also a significant number of Hindu-based deities rendered in gold that form part of the Surigao treasure.


The Laguna copperplate, translated by Antoon Postma, shows a language (and script) that is in fact Sanskrit-based but not totally Sanskrit and may have been the language of trading used all over the islands that had trading relations with these empires.


Our word for god, "Bathala" for example is from the Sanskrit "Bhattara", which is lie saying "provider" or divine providence or something like that.


In sum, we were not isolated at all. We were trading with these people, most probably on an equal footing in the way that we also traded with Arabs and Chinese. That is correct: duwa in Bahasa Melayu is the same as in Cebuano. Pulau in Bahasa is pulu in Cebuano. Makan in modern Bahasa is Makan in ancient Cebuano (to eat); Ikan in Bahasa is fish in ancient Cebuano.

My point is, do we have something at a par with the ancient Thai, Khmer, § Burmese? Something we can rally behind to and proudly point to as our very own? Instead of having to resort to prevarication § fakery like the Maragtas § Kalantiaw? In line with what bai habagat wrote, "Inventing a hero"... or "Inventing a fake heritage" is, to my mind, awful § shameful. Using these fabled and mythic stories for children's stories are alright. Or using them in the same context as the Viking sagas of Beowulf or the Illiad or the Odyssey are ok.

What is not ok is for Filipinos to continually grasp at empty straws and use flimsy indigenous tales as a rallying point for nationalism. The proverbial splitting of hairs just to "have"/ for the sake of having something, anything, for that matter! Til such a time that modern archaeology can dig up something substantial, it is my belief that our islands were viewed by the ancient Asians as something like how we view Papua New Guinea or Timbuktu today, remote and exotic (even by other Asian's standards). I am almost tempted to ask our Nationalists, what exactly are they crowing about anyway?

Filipinos cannot rally behind something which never occured to build up national pride, pride of place or pride of culture. IMHO :)

and yet they insist on what they perceive as nationalism and dream of a unified nation named after a foreign king :lol:

why cant we be true to our roots and return to a structure that is more suited for a people...although the barangays have grown from mere families to a potpourri of ethnic groups that span cities and islands (that some would like to dream of being united in diversity :lol: )

and yet they insist on what they perceive as nationalism and dream of a unified nation named after a foreign king :lol:

why cant we be true to our roots and return to a structure that is more suited for a people...although the barangays have grown from mere families to a potpourri of ethnic groups that span cities and islands (that some would like to dream of being united in diversity :lol: )

^^ hala ka. :lol: abi ko mag the battlecry now is national unity parejas sa imong speech sa Thread 73? The only thingy which "binds" us together as one nation is this thingy we got now. Before Magellan came we had very little in common with the other neighbouring tribes. Without the thingy, we might as well go on our own separate ways or join Indonesia or Malaysia.

But if it's Republic of Cebu, Federal Republic of the Visayas you have at the back of your fertile mind, aawww, kana pud dili jud tingali ko makalalis niana; :lol:

^^ hala ka. :lol: abi ko mag the battlecry now is national unity parejas sa imong speech sa Thread 73? The only thingy which "binds" us together as one nation is this thingy we got now. Before Magellan came we had very little in common with the other neighbouring tribes. Without the thingy, we might as well go on our own separate ways or join Indonesia or Malaysia.

But if it's Republic of Cebu, Federal Republic of the Visayas you have at the back of your fertile mind, aawww, kana pud dili jud tingali ko makalalis niana; :lol:

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right?

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right?

one approach in the understanding of civilizations or cultures is the study of present day descendants. I don't understand the manner of judging the greatness of our people and culture in the edifices we erect or haven't erected. i'm not disappointed at all with our ancestors. they were such a great people. we are such a great race. we should stop looking from the outside and instead look closely at what great achievements we have made. most of these are intangible heritage, not big grandiose edifices made of stone.

take for instance folk medicine o binisaya nga panambal e.g. the idea of the kabuhi og panuhot. sa west ang physical approach sa mga psychological disorders mao ang paghatag og mga medisina aron pagputol sa mga synaptic messages sa nervous system aron maputol usab ang kaguliyang sa utok sa usa ka psych patient. dunay mga disorders nga mada ra pagtumar og tambal.

sa wala pa ang western nga medisina, daghan nga pamaagi aron mamaayo og mabuhi ang atong katiguwangan. ang pagplastar sa kabuhi pananglitan makawagtang sa kaguliyang sa utok sa usa ka psych patient.

ang paghilot og pagwagtang sa hangin sa lawas nga moresulta sa pagpangutot sa pasyete samtang gihilot, makapaayo sa pamati sa usa ka taw nga galain ang lawas.

daghan usab nga mga tanom og dahon nga nahibaloan ang atong mga katigulangan sama sa pagamit og mangagaw aron pagpasaka sa platelet sa usa ka dengue patient.

daghan pa kaayo. this is the wisdom of the ancients. and daghan kita ana nga buhi pa og gigamit pa karon. we are a great people. in this age of postmodernity and the mainstreaming of marginal ideas, including premodern, prechristian wisdom daghan kitang mahibaloan nga makatabang pag-ayo kanato.

we are a low energy culture. we live in harmony with the universe. lets celebrate who we are.

one approach in the understanding of civilizations or cultures is the study of present day descendants. I don't understand the manner of judging the greatness of our people and culture in the edifices we erect or haven't erected. i'm not disappointed at all with our ancestors. they were such a great people. we are such a great race. we should stop looking from the outside and instead look closely at what great achievements we have made. most of these are intangible heritage, not big grandiose edifices made of stone.

take for instance folk medicine o binisaya nga panambal e.g. the idea of the kabuhi og panuhot. sa west ang physical approach sa mga psychological disorders mao ang paghatag og mga medisina aron pagputol sa mga synaptic messages sa nervous system aron maputol usab ang kaguliyang sa utok sa usa ka psych patient. dunay mga disorders nga mada ra pagtumar og tambal.

sa wala pa ang western nga medisina, daghan nga pamaagi aron mamaayo og mabuhi ang atong katiguwangan. ang pagplastar sa kabuhi pananglitan makawagtang sa kaguliyang sa utok sa usa ka psych patient.

ang paghilot og pagwagtang sa hangin sa lawas nga moresulta sa pagpangutot sa pasyete samtang gihilot, makapaayo sa pamati sa usa ka taw nga galain ang lawas.

daghan usab nga mga tanom og dahon nga nahibaloan ang atong mga katigulangan sama sa pagamit og mangagaw aron pagpasaka sa platelet sa usa ka dengue patient.

daghan pa kaayo. this is the wisdom of the ancients. and daghan kita ana nga buhi pa og gigamit pa karon. we are a great people. in this age of postmodernity and the mainstreaming of marginal ideas, including premodern, prechristian wisdom daghan kitang mahibaloan nga makatabang pag-ayo kanato.

we are a low energy culture. we live in harmony with the universe. lets celebrate who we are.

the prespanish cebu had a preindustrial, agricultural culture.

we knew already how to plant rice as evidenced by rice paddies sa mga basakan duol sa baybayon diin dunay brackish nga tubig og daghang tubod nga mainom og magamit usab pagpatubig sa mga humay sa panahon sa ting-init.

nakatanom kita og arabon og humay nga dili pilit. daghan sa atong luto sinagulan og tono sama sa puto, biko, budbud, ug uban pa. usahay sagulan og luy-a ang arabon para humot ang luto niini. daghang lubi og bisan pa kaniadto kahibaw na atong katiguwangan mohimo og lana gikan sa lubi. mao usab kini ang gamiton sa mga lampara og haplas. bisan gani sa pagshampoo pwede sab tono ang gamiton.

sa sabaway, way makalupig sa lami sa manok bisaya nga kinamungayan. ang atong siling kulikot lami sab isagol sa suka og pwerteng hanga. layo ra ang tabasco sa amerika. duna koy chef nga nakaila nga bisaya nga bell pepper gyod iyang gigamit. wa gani ko kahibalo naa diay kini. gagmay siya og mas halang og mas lami isagol sa luto.

ang atong rock salt pinangita na karon usab sa gawas. ang atong suka gikan sa lubi lami usab.

ang tuba lami sab. kinsa tong nakaadto sa argao gikan sa boljoon sa tour nga giorganized sa casa gorordo nakatagamtam gyod sa lami nga tuba nga wa pa mabahal.

pagkaon, medisina pa lang atong nahisgutan. tanang aspeto sa kinabuhi dunay version ang sugbuanon.

colonialism abruptly interrupted our growth and progress towards what, we don't know. now we have the chance again to chart our destiny as a people.

the prespanish cebu had a preindustrial, agricultural culture.

we knew already how to plant rice as evidenced by rice paddies sa mga basakan duol sa baybayon diin dunay brackish nga tubig og daghang tubod nga mainom og magamit usab pagpatubig sa mga humay sa panahon sa ting-init.

nakatanom kita og arabon og humay nga dili pilit. daghan sa atong luto sinagulan og tono sama sa puto, biko, budbud, ug uban pa. usahay sagulan og luy-a ang arabon para humot ang luto niini. daghang lubi og bisan pa kaniadto kahibaw na atong katiguwangan mohimo og lana gikan sa lubi. mao usab kini ang gamiton sa mga lampara og haplas. bisan gani sa pagshampoo pwede sab tono ang gamiton.

sa sabaway, way makalupig sa lami sa manok bisaya nga kinamungayan. ang atong siling kulikot lami sab isagol sa suka og pwerteng hanga. layo ra ang tabasco sa amerika. duna koy chef nga nakaila nga bisaya nga bell pepper gyod iyang gigamit. wa gani ko kahibalo naa diay kini. gagmay siya og mas halang og mas lami isagol sa luto.

ang atong rock salt pinangita na karon usab sa gawas. ang atong suka gikan sa lubi lami usab.

ang tuba lami sab. kinsa tong nakaadto sa argao gikan sa boljoon sa tour nga giorganized sa casa gorordo nakatagamtam gyod sa lami nga tuba nga wa pa mabahal.

pagkaon, medisina pa lang atong nahisgutan. tanang aspeto sa kinabuhi dunay version ang sugbuanon.

colonialism abruptly interrupted our growth and progress towards what, we don't know. now we have the chance again to chart our destiny as a people.

Archaeologue, any updates as far as the NM is concerned on the Subway Project at
Plaza Independencia?

Archaeologue, any updates as far as the NM is concerned on the Subway Project at
Plaza Independencia?

^^ pwede sad ko mo-apil sa digging

I used to work sa Hacienda kusog ko mo kawot ug kanal for irragation..

Pwede sad ko mo PR sa mga tawo nga magsinamok sa kawot ka tourguide man sad ko tag radio pa jud hehehe... migawas akong pagka kunyo..naka panghambog...

Sir bason naay training unya we can get a certificate...

no problem, ka bino.

part of the ethical responsibilities of archaeologists is to conduct public archaeology alongside our projects/excavations.

we always ask locals and the public to help us in the excavations...and we issue certiifucates to those we have trained...

sa boljoon naa pa koy mga utang didto kay ang mga youth nga nitabang sa excavations wa pa nako mahatagan sa certificate kay kanunay ko makalimot///heheeh...

^^ pwede sad ko mo-apil sa digging

I used to work sa Hacienda kusog ko mo kawot ug kanal for irragation..

Pwede sad ko mo PR sa mga tawo nga magsinamok sa kawot ka tourguide man sad ko tag radio pa jud hehehe... migawas akong pagka kunyo..naka panghambog...

Sir bason naay training unya we can get a certificate...

no problem, ka bino.

part of the ethical responsibilities of archaeologists is to conduct public archaeology alongside our projects/excavations.

we always ask locals and the public to help us in the excavations...and we issue certiifucates to those we have trained...

sa boljoon naa pa koy mga utang didto kay ang mga youth nga nitabang sa excavations wa pa nako mahatagan sa certificate kay kanunay ko makalimot///heheeh...

Archaeologue, any updates as far as the NM is concerned on the Subway Project at
Plaza Independencia?


Hi sAnvalente,

as i mentioned in the earlier threads, the NM people finally got to my column and went to the Vice Mayor to pressure him to do something.

i am not at liberty to tell you all the details of that meeting but this much i can tell you. the VM is head of the City Historical Affairs Commission but the Sen. Vicente Rama memorabilia are in Museo Sugbo, not with the newly opened city legislative building ...this gives you some idea of how inept the CHAC has been lately.

all told, Angel Bautista, deputy director of NM, together with Malou Samson (curator of USC Univ. Museum) and I are meeting with the subway project management (including the Japanese Kajima Construction Co.) during their regular monthly meeting on Tuesday to thresh out details of the monitoring program for the final third of the plaza which will still undergo excavation by the construction crew.

a training program for contractors, DPWH and engineers working on this project will also be conducted by NM concerning the handling of archaeological materials. better late than never.

let's hope for the best. i wanted to turn down the idea that i would be monitoring the work on behalf of NM (self-serving ang labas sa ako column) but they tell me there is no one in Cebu who can do this given the qualifications required as per NM regulations. I have to do it paet.)

Archaeologue, any updates as far as the NM is concerned on the Subway Project at
Plaza Independencia?


Hi sAnvalente,

as i mentioned in the earlier threads, the NM people finally got to my column and went to the Vice Mayor to pressure him to do something.

i am not at liberty to tell you all the details of that meeting but this much i can tell you. the VM is head of the City Historical Affairs Commission but the Sen. Vicente Rama memorabilia are in Museo Sugbo, not with the newly opened city legislative building ...this gives you some idea of how inept the CHAC has been lately.

all told, Angel Bautista, deputy director of NM, together with Malou Samson (curator of USC Univ. Museum) and I are meeting with the subway project management (including the Japanese Kajima Construction Co.) during their regular monthly meeting on Tuesday to thresh out details of the monitoring program for the final third of the plaza which will still undergo excavation by the construction crew.

a training program for contractors, DPWH and engineers working on this project will also be conducted by NM concerning the handling of archaeological materials. better late than never.

let's hope for the best. i wanted to turn down the idea that i would be monitoring the work on behalf of NM (self-serving ang labas sa ako column) but they tell me there is no one in Cebu who can do this given the qualifications required as per NM regulations. I have to do it paet.)

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right?

having spent time in Singapore and at a university there at that, I would be bound to agree with you, flesh_is_weak.

but one must not forget that singapore is probably the only former british colony in asia as well as in africa that has succeeded and moved into highly developed country status.

just look at the countries in equatorial and southern africa and also india and you know what i mean.

in other words, there were unique factors in the unfolding history of singapore that made it what it is today. people sould look at how singapore went into a painful transition between 1966 and 1976.

one important key factor is the single-mindedness of a strong leader called lee kuan yew, who ruled the island for virtually almost 30 long years, suppressing freedoms and rights at the expense of progress.

are cebuanos prepared to go the way of singapore when it comes to discipline?

will these stupid drivers on our streets swallow the pill if, for example, the "Cebu Republic" will begin putting up fines that can virtually mean a month's salary for a minor infraction?

dinha pa lang daan sa dalan, hagbong na ta.

:bash:

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right?

having spent time in Singapore and at a university there at that, I would be bound to agree with you, flesh_is_weak.

but one must not forget that singapore is probably the only former british colony in asia as well as in africa that has succeeded and moved into highly developed country status.

just look at the countries in equatorial and southern africa and also india and you know what i mean.

in other words, there were unique factors in the unfolding history of singapore that made it what it is today. people sould look at how singapore went into a painful transition between 1966 and 1976.

one important key factor is the single-mindedness of a strong leader called lee kuan yew, who ruled the island for virtually almost 30 long years, suppressing freedoms and rights at the expense of progress.

are cebuanos prepared to go the way of singapore when it comes to discipline?

will these stupid drivers on our streets swallow the pill if, for example, the "Cebu Republic" will begin putting up fines that can virtually mean a month's salary for a minor infraction?

dinha pa lang daan sa dalan, hagbong na ta.

:bash:

My point is, do we have something at a par with the ancient Thai, Khmer, § Burmese? Something we can rally behind to and proudly point to as our very own? Instead of having to resort to prevarication § fakery like the Maragtas § Kalantiaw? In line with what bai habagat wrote, "Inventing a hero"... or "Inventing a fake heritage" is, to my mind, awful § shameful. Using these fabled and mythic stories for children's stories are alright. Or using them in the same context as the Viking sagas of Beowulf or the Illiad or the Odyssey are ok.




all the monumental structures in Thailand, Burma and even Indonesia are not theirs. these are products of the Hindu religion from India (turned into Buddhism in China then brought to Thailand and Burma). they could not have done this on their own had they not been overwhelmed by a "foreign" religion.

borubudor is almost an exact copy of the stupas of Thailand as well as those which you find all over India.

the Khmer kingdom did build so many monumental structures but only at the expense of so many people that had to be driven to near slavery to work on these structures.

moreover, they built these, like the Mayas, Aztecs and Incas did, because there was this seeming competition with others in their own places to show off who had the best way to reach god or the divine or whatever they called it.

and so you find many of these structures competing with each other.

now, the Cebuanos, Bol-anons etc in the Visayas had no such "borrowed" religions in the sense that ours were ours alone.

well, until the Spaniards came and taught us to build their monumental structures, which we now preserve as testaments to our building prowess (making Baroque-inspired structures in earthquake prone tropical lands is an amazing feat!)

we have no monumental structures before the Spaniards came because we simply resisted incursions of outside influences that did not serve our purpose. we traded with the chinese but we never, never copied their pagodas. we traded with the arabs but we found no use for their grand fortifications.

in other words, we managed to get by on our own, believing in our sacred places---caves, rivers, springs---which amazingly we still look to with awe today despite 400 years of Catholicism.

true, we borrowed words from sanskrit...but why did we not build the temples that were part of the pantheon of the Hindu faith? well for us, the idols sufficed. never mind the structures. you would have to wage war and expand your reach to get people to do that. we had no such ambitions to greatness at the expense of others.

our faith was inward looking, which is why when a cat crosses the street and you are about to make an important decision, you cancel it and wait for wait for a day. even if we believe in a christian god, we are still steeped in the animistic religion that was the bedrock of our ancestors' faith.

simply put, unlike all the other cultures around us, we did not need to be awed by monumental man-made structures.

what inspired us was deep inside all of us.

it is still there just waiting to remove the confusion brought about by 350 years of spanish and american colonialism. make no mistake, i do not put blame on these colonizers but boy did they take so much of our cultural core and cover it with the superficialities of their way of looking at the world.

My point is, do we have something at a par with the ancient Thai, Khmer, § Burmese? Something we can rally behind to and proudly point to as our very own? Instead of having to resort to prevarication § fakery like the Maragtas § Kalantiaw? In line with what bai habagat wrote, "Inventing a hero"... or "Inventing a fake heritage" is, to my mind, awful § shameful. Using these fabled and mythic stories for children's stories are alright. Or using them in the same context as the Viking sagas of Beowulf or the Illiad or the Odyssey are ok.




all the monumental structures in Thailand, Burma and even Indonesia are not theirs. these are products of the Hindu religion from India (turned into Buddhism in China then brought to Thailand and Burma). they could not have done this on their own had they not been overwhelmed by a "foreign" religion.

borubudor is almost an exact copy of the stupas of Thailand as well as those which you find all over India.

the Khmer kingdom did build so many monumental structures but only at the expense of so many people that had to be driven to near slavery to work on these structures.

moreover, they built these, like the Mayas, Aztecs and Incas did, because there was this seeming competition with others in their own places to show off who had the best way to reach god or the divine or whatever they called it.

and so you find many of these structures competing with each other.

now, the Cebuanos, Bol-anons etc in the Visayas had no such "borrowed" religions in the sense that ours were ours alone.

well, until the Spaniards came and taught us to build their monumental structures, which we now preserve as testaments to our building prowess (making Baroque-inspired structures in earthquake prone tropical lands is an amazing feat!)

we have no monumental structures before the Spaniards came because we simply resisted incursions of outside influences that did not serve our purpose. we traded with the chinese but we never, never copied their pagodas. we traded with the arabs but we found no use for their grand fortifications.

in other words, we managed to get by on our own, believing in our sacred places---caves, rivers, springs---which amazingly we still look to with awe today despite 400 years of Catholicism.

true, we borrowed words from sanskrit...but why did we not build the temples that were part of the pantheon of the Hindu faith? well for us, the idols sufficed. never mind the structures. you would have to wage war and expand your reach to get people to do that. we had no such ambitions to greatness at the expense of others.

our faith was inward looking, which is why when a cat crosses the street and you are about to make an important decision, you cancel it and wait for wait for a day. even if we believe in a christian god, we are still steeped in the animistic religion that was the bedrock of our ancestors' faith.

simply put, unlike all the other cultures around us, we did not need to be awed by monumental man-made structures.

what inspired us was deep inside all of us.

it is still there just waiting to remove the confusion brought about by 350 years of spanish and american colonialism. make no mistake, i do not put blame on these colonizers but boy did they take so much of our cultural core and cover it with the superficialities of their way of looking at the world.

now, the Cebuanos, Bol-anons etc in the Visayas had no such "borrowed" religions in the sense that ours were ours alone.

well, until the Spaniards came and taught us to build their monumental structures, which we now preserve as testaments to our building prowess (making Baroque-inspired structures in earthquake prone tropical lands is an amazing feat!)

we have no monumental structures before the Spaniards came because we simply resisted incursions of outside influences that did not serve our purpose. we traded with the chinese but we never, never copied their pagodas. we traded with the arabs but we found no use for their grand fortifications. :lol: I forgot to look at it from that perspective. Yes, indeed. Since if one does not distinguish between the skin colour of the invader, be it white or brown, what difference is it then if the invader/ foreigner came from India or Spain? What difference is it then if the structure was a Hindu temple or a Hispanic Basilica? Yes, we did eventually build our monuments, from a certain viewpoint. After all, both would be deemed as foreign by the original human inhabitants of the Philippines, the Negritos. From a paradigmatic shift, even the “Austronesian” as we know it, would still be considered invasive by the original inhabitants since by definition, Austronesians came Taiwan. :lol:

I dunno where I came across it, but I heard that egg yolks or egg whites were used as binding agents or adhesives along with the mortar in the construction of most Hispanic era churches. If true, what a curious way to make cement in the old days. Think of all the leche flans it could’ve created. :lol:

now, the Cebuanos, Bol-anons etc in the Visayas had no such "borrowed" religions in the sense that ours were ours alone.

well, until the Spaniards came and taught us to build their monumental structures, which we now preserve as testaments to our building prowess (making Baroque-inspired structures in earthquake prone tropical lands is an amazing feat!)

we have no monumental structures before the Spaniards came because we simply resisted incursions of outside influences that did not serve our purpose. we traded with the chinese but we never, never copied their pagodas. we traded with the arabs but we found no use for their grand fortifications. :lol: I forgot to look at it from that perspective. Yes, indeed. Since if one does not distinguish between the skin colour of the invader, be it white or brown, what difference is it then if the invader/ foreigner came from India or Spain? What difference is it then if the structure was a Hindu temple or a Hispanic Basilica? Yes, we did eventually build our monuments, from a certain viewpoint. After all, both would be deemed as foreign by the original human inhabitants of the Philippines, the Negritos. From a paradigmatic shift, even the “Austronesian” as we know it, would still be considered invasive by the original inhabitants since by definition, Austronesians came Taiwan. :lol:

I dunno where I came across it, but I heard that egg yolks or egg whites were used as binding agents or adhesives along with the mortar in the construction of most Hispanic era churches. If true, what a curious way to make cement in the old days. Think of all the leche flans it could’ve created. :lol:

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right? :lol: remember that Singapore is only 1/10 the land area of Cebu, or it is about the size of Marinduque. It was extremely lucky to have a genius as a founding father, Lee Kuan Yew. Another thing going for it is the infrastructure left behind by the British when it was a Crown Colony together with Hongkong, meaning its shipping ports. Today, roughly 60% of the world’s total tonnage in shipping passes thru its ports; whilst prob 100% of East Asia’s oil supply passes thru the Straits of Malacca.

I think we’re in the same boat as Indonesia. Both are archipelagic and too difficult to govern because of so many ethnicities. But if the Visayan nation, or if not the Cebuano tribe, can reinvent ourselves and think up something daring and innovative (under the guidance of a wise autocrat), I also think we can pull it off. Think of something like “Islands of the Southwestern Pacific Seas”, “Tax Haven for multi-millionaires or billionaires or for private banking ala Cayman Islands or the Bahamas”, “Casino Islands in the mould of Macau”, reliable outsourcing for multinational technoparks which are guaranteed safety and industrial peace, blah blah blah, or we could try our luck at shipping too…

^^coz i'm schizophrenic, that's why :rofl:

one moment i ponder on what this filipino nation could become...then a few minutes later, i daydream about one day having to take arms and kill for a free Visayan homeland :lol:

a Singapore-sized Cebuano Republic wouldnt be too bad, right? :lol: remember that Singapore is only 1/10 the land area of Cebu, or it is about the size of Marinduque. It was extremely lucky to have a genius as a founding father, Lee Kuan Yew. Another thing going for it is the infrastructure left behind by the British when it was a Crown Colony together with Hongkong, meaning its shipping ports. Today, roughly 60% of the world’s total tonnage in shipping passes thru its ports; whilst prob 100% of East Asia’s oil supply passes thru the Straits of Malacca.

I think we’re in the same boat as Indonesia. Both are archipelagic and too difficult to govern because of so many ethnicities. But if the Visayan nation, or if not the Cebuano tribe, can reinvent ourselves and think up something daring and innovative (under the guidance of a wise autocrat), I also think we can pull it off. Think of something like “Islands of the Southwestern Pacific Seas”, “Tax Haven for multi-millionaires or billionaires or for private banking ala Cayman Islands or the Bahamas”, “Casino Islands in the mould of Macau”, reliable outsourcing for multinational technoparks which are guaranteed safety and industrial peace, blah blah blah, or we could try our luck at shipping too…

ah, if only we'd have a leader made from the same mold as Mr. Lee...perhaps with touches of Marcos' evil genius (although this time he'd be selfless) and the unearthly charisma of Kim Il-Sung (although this time he'd be a capitalist)...

i agree with the suppression of certain rights and freedoms, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our nation has become complacent and the government too lax in implementing even the most simple of rules...

which leads to a question, did our ancestors have some code of ethics or some sort of set of rules and disciplines to live by? (comparable to the teachings of Confucius and the great sages)

ah, if only we'd have a leader made from the same mold as Mr. Lee...perhaps with touches of Marcos' evil genius (although this time he'd be selfless) and the unearthly charisma of Kim Il-Sung (although this time he'd be a capitalist)...

i agree with the suppression of certain rights and freedoms, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our nation has become complacent and the government too lax in implementing even the most simple of rules...

which leads to a question, did our ancestors have some code of ethics or some sort of set of rules and disciplines to live by? (comparable to the teachings of Confucius and the great sages)

I dunno where I came across it, but I heard that egg yolks or egg whites were used as binding agents or adhesives along with the mortar in the construction of most Hispanic era churches. If true, what a curious way to make cement in the old days. Think of all the leche flans it could’ve created. :lol:

it's not actually cement. i think cement (pozzolanic) was first used in the 1880s after the great earthquakes of july 1880. cement was imported from pozzolan and cementum areas in italy and was quite expensive in those days.

the use of cement began to be very common only when the first cement factory opened in the country, which is the Apo Cement Co. in Naga, Cebu around the late 20s or early 30s

the friars taught us to use lime mortar or argamasa in spanish. the binder is either the sticky sap from the lauat tree (the leaves are cooked and the sticky sap is decocted) or just plain water. some say that milk or egg whites were also used as binders where the lauat was not found.

the practice of mixing powedered burnt shells (producing lime) and coral rubble or sand with water, milk, lauat sap is borrowed form old Roman building techniques , which were eventually brought to Spain and then on to the philippines after a thousand years or so.

in the Philippines, the friars substituted the materials using whatever could be found. shells were burned and then pulverized to produce apog or lime. when mixed with water and a little sticky substance like sap from the cooked lauat tree leaves, the binding would be good enough to put in between big pre-cut coral blocks called tablillas or volcanic tuff called adobe. a paleteda, the finishing on tablillas or adobe blocks to hide the stoney appearance, is also of argamasa.

I dunno where I came across it, but I heard that egg yolks or egg whites were used as binding agents or adhesives along with the mortar in the construction of most Hispanic era churches. If true, what a curious way to make cement in the old days. Think of all the leche flans it could’ve created. :lol:

it's not actually cement. i think cement (pozzolanic) was first used in the 1880s after the great earthquakes of july 1880. cement was imported from pozzolan and cementum areas in italy and was quite expensive in those days.

the use of cement began to be very common only when the first cement factory opened in the country, which is the Apo Cement Co. in Naga, Cebu around the late 20s or early 30s

the friars taught us to use lime mortar or argamasa in spanish. the binder is either the sticky sap from the lauat tree (the leaves are cooked and the sticky sap is decocted) or just plain water. some say that milk or egg whites were also used as binders where the lauat was not found.

the practice of mixing powedered burnt shells (producing lime) and coral rubble or sand with water, milk, lauat sap is borrowed form old Roman building techniques , which were eventually brought to Spain and then on to the philippines after a thousand years or so.

in the Philippines, the friars substituted the materials using whatever could be found. shells were burned and then pulverized to produce apog or lime. when mixed with water and a little sticky substance like sap from the cooked lauat tree leaves, the binding would be good enough to put in between big pre-cut coral blocks called tablillas or volcanic tuff called adobe. a paleteda, the finishing on tablillas or adobe blocks to hide the stoney appearance, is also of argamasa.

ah, if only we'd have a leader made from the same mold as Mr. Lee...perhaps with touches of Marcos' evil genius (although this time he'd be selfless) and the unearthly charisma of Kim Il-Sung (although this time he'd be a capitalist)...

i agree with the suppression of certain rights and freedoms, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our nation has become complacent and the government too lax in implementing even the most simple of rules...

which leads to a question, did our ancestors have some code of ethics or some sort of set of rules and disciplines to live by? (comparable to the teachings of Confucius and the great sages)

i say amen to that. this thread is so poignant because today is the 26th anniversary of Martial Law.

it was almost like Martial Law in Singapore for most of 35 years of the ntion's life since the country pulled out of the federation of malaya.

it was Martial Law that propelled south korea into a giant under park chung hee almost at the same time that Marcos imposed his brand of Martial Law on this country.

it was a military dictatorship that built Taiwan in to a formidable "lost province" of china under Chiang ching kuo.

but look where the Marcos-type Martial Law brought us today?
the greed of Marcos could not be overcome. he was far too greedy to resist the temptation to steal.

whatever visions he had were overwhelmed by the temptation of wielding absolute power.

if only Marcos and his ilk did not succumb to that temptation, Singapore would probably pale in comparison to what we would be today.

alas, we are not even learning from that dark period in our history.

:bash: :ohno:

ah, if only we'd have a leader made from the same mold as Mr. Lee...perhaps with touches of Marcos' evil genius (although this time he'd be selfless) and the unearthly charisma of Kim Il-Sung (although this time he'd be a capitalist)...

i agree with the suppression of certain rights and freedoms, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our nation has become complacent and the government too lax in implementing even the most simple of rules...

which leads to a question, did our ancestors have some code of ethics or some sort of set of rules and disciplines to live by? (comparable to the teachings of Confucius and the great sages)

i say amen to that. this thread is so poignant because today is the 26th anniversary of Martial Law.

it was almost like Martial Law in Singapore for most of 35 years of the ntion's life since the country pulled out of the federation of malaya.

it was Martial Law that propelled south korea into a giant under park chung hee almost at the same time that Marcos imposed his brand of Martial Law on this country.

it was a military dictatorship that built Taiwan in to a formidable "lost province" of china under Chiang ching kuo.

but look where the Marcos-type Martial Law brought us today?
the greed of Marcos could not be overcome. he was far too greedy to resist the temptation to steal.

whatever visions he had were overwhelmed by the temptation of wielding absolute power.

if only Marcos and his ilk did not succumb to that temptation, Singapore would probably pale in comparison to what we would be today.

alas, we are not even learning from that dark period in our history.

:bash: :ohno:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBo-brpZ1T4&feature=related
UBo-brpZ1T4&feature=related
credits to the vidmaker: @ulysses3940

Some clips of old Cebu. Kato bang kaniadto nga nanilbihan pa ko como mayordomo ni Capitan Mampor. :lol: The beat has a very strong mexican influence esp the singgit singgit in the background; which is characteristic of the Ranchero genre. :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBo-brpZ1T4&feature=related
UBo-brpZ1T4&feature=related
credits to the vidmaker: @ulysses3940

Some clips of old Cebu. Kato bang kaniadto nga nanilbihan pa ko como mayordomo ni Capitan Mampor. :lol: The beat has a very strong mexican influence esp the singgit singgit in the background; which is characteristic of the Ranchero genre. :lol:

i say amen to that. this thread is so poignant because today is the 26th anniversary of Martial Law.

it was almost like Martial Law in Singapore for most of 35 years of the ntion's life since the country pulled out of the federation of malaya.

it was Martial Law that propelled south korea into a giant under park chung hee almost at the same time that Marcos imposed his brand of Martial Law on this country.

it was a military dictatorship that built Taiwan in to a formidable "lost province" of china under Chiang ching kuo.

but look where the Marcos-type Martial Law brought us today?
the greed of Marcos could not be overcome. he was far too greedy to resist the temptation to steal.

whatever visions he had were overwhelmed by the temptation of wielding absolute power.

if only Marcos and his ilk did not succumb to that temptation, Singapore would probably pale in comparison to what we would be today.

alas, we are not even learning from that dark period in our history.

:bash: :ohno: Very true. In September 1972, the Php Peso was 2 pesos to 1 US$, that was how strong we were. Can any Filipino imagine this?!? Everyone else in SE Asia looked up to us. Democracia nga walay tumong does not work for us, let's face it, at least not within this Asian context. While we wallow, Singapore will have its first Formula 1 Grand Prix this Sep26-Sep28! It has to be some form of controlled democracy. I wouldn't mind if for the Republic of Cebu, Ma'm Gwen will don black leather and carry a whip como Dominatrix. :lol:

i say amen to that. this thread is so poignant because today is the 26th anniversary of Martial Law.

it was almost like Martial Law in Singapore for most of 35 years of the ntion's life since the country pulled out of the federation of malaya.

it was Martial Law that propelled south korea into a giant under park chung hee almost at the same time that Marcos imposed his brand of Martial Law on this country.

it was a military dictatorship that built Taiwan in to a formidable "lost province" of china under Chiang ching kuo.

but look where the Marcos-type Martial Law brought us today?
the greed of Marcos could not be overcome. he was far too greedy to resist the temptation to steal.

whatever visions he had were overwhelmed by the temptation of wielding absolute power.

if only Marcos and his ilk did not succumb to that temptation, Singapore would probably pale in comparison to what we would be today.

alas, we are not even learning from that dark period in our history.

:bash: :ohno: Very true. In September 1972, the Php Peso was 2 pesos to 1 US$, that was how strong we were. Can any Filipino imagine this?!? Everyone else in SE Asia looked up to us. Democracia nga walay tumong does not work for us, let's face it, at least not within this Asian context. While we wallow, Singapore will have its first Formula 1 Grand Prix this Sep26-Sep28! It has to be some form of controlled democracy. I wouldn't mind if for the Republic of Cebu, Ma'm Gwen will don black leather and carry a whip como Dominatrix. :lol:

One thing I noticed about Cebu's old Balay nga bato, most of them have no media agua and the construction material of the ground floor is really made of stone, limestone or coral stone (due to its abundance in the island) rather than having brick or brick in timber frame which dominates the old houses in Manila proper. And also, the number of houses still using tisa as their roof as compared to Manila which started using GI sheets in the late 19th Century. How is this so?

In the case of Manila, the walls of brick on timber frame signified a period in the Spanish colonial era which dates back to the late 19th Century. On the other hand, houses which their ground floor walls are made of stone - adobe (which is abundant in Luzon) are of earlier period.

One thing I noticed about Cebu's old Balay nga bato, most of them have no media agua and the construction material of the ground floor is really made of stone, limestone or coral stone (due to its abundance in the island) rather than having brick or brick in timber frame which dominates the old houses in Manila proper. And also, the number of houses still using tisa as their roof as compared to Manila which started using GI sheets in the late 19th Century. How is this so?

In the case of Manila, the walls of brick on timber frame signified a period in the Spanish colonial era which dates back to the late 19th Century. On the other hand, houses which their ground floor walls are made of stone - adobe (which is abundant in Luzon) are of earlier period.

^^

I think there are also old houses with G.I. sheets roof. For example, Canuto Avila's house.


..

^^

I think there are also old houses with G.I. sheets roof. For example, Canuto Avila's house.


..

One thing I noticed about Cebu's old Balay nga bato, most of them have no media agua and the construction material of the ground floor is really made of stone, limestone or coral stone (due to its abundance in the island) rather than having brick or brick in timber frame which dominates the old houses in Manila proper. And also, the number of houses still using tisa as their roof as compared to Manila which started using GI sheets in the late 19th Century. How is this so?




This is timely. I've been asked to write about the history of the Ayuntamiento Building as part of its reconstruction/restoration by the Bureau of the Treasury.


This much I can say: On 3 June 1863, a violent earthquake shook Manila and toppled many of the government and ecclesiastical buildings there, including the Ayuntamiento. I think only the San Agustin Church suffered minimal damage (only one of its belfries cracked and was later demolished altogether).

Then on 18 July 1880, another violent earthquake, and its aftershock on 20 July 1880, forced the government in Manila to rethink the use of roof tiles, which had been very fatal to whoever happened to be underneath them.

So the town council issued a month after this the Reglas para las edificaciones en Manila, dictadas a consecuencia de los terremotos de los dias 18 y 20 de Julio (Building Regulations for Structures in Manila as a consequence of the earthquake of 18 and 20 July).


Apparently, the earthquake was not so damaging to areas outside of Manila, so this regulation was applied only to that place.


This explains why galvanized iron roofing took so long to take root in Cebu. In fact this would only start during the American period, when it was cheaper to import the material from Pittsburgh and other factories in America.

One thing I noticed about Cebu's old Balay nga bato, most of them have no media agua and the construction material of the ground floor is really made of stone, limestone or coral stone (due to its abundance in the island) rather than having brick or brick in timber frame which dominates the old houses in Manila proper. And also, the number of houses still using tisa as their roof as compared to Manila which started using GI sheets in the late 19th Century. How is this so?




This is timely. I've been asked to write about the history of the Ayuntamiento Building as part of its reconstruction/restoration by the Bureau of the Treasury.


This much I can say: On 3 June 1863, a violent earthquake shook Manila and toppled many of the government and ecclesiastical buildings there, including the Ayuntamiento. I think only the San Agustin Church suffered minimal damage (only one of its belfries cracked and was later demolished altogether).

Then on 18 July 1880, another violent earthquake, and its aftershock on 20 July 1880, forced the government in Manila to rethink the use of roof tiles, which had been very fatal to whoever happened to be underneath them.

So the town council issued a month after this the Reglas para las edificaciones en Manila, dictadas a consecuencia de los terremotos de los dias 18 y 20 de Julio (Building Regulations for Structures in Manila as a consequence of the earthquake of 18 and 20 July).


Apparently, the earthquake was not so damaging to areas outside of Manila, so this regulation was applied only to that place.


This explains why galvanized iron roofing took so long to take root in Cebu. In fact this would only start during the American period, when it was cheaper to import the material from Pittsburgh and other factories in America.

E1tGCYfKRC8

E1tGCYfKRC8

Very true. In September 1972, the Php Peso was 2 pesos to 1 US$, that was how strong we were....

Peso to US$ rate in Sept. 1972 I think was P14.00 already.

Very true. In September 1972, the Php Peso was 2 pesos to 1 US$, that was how strong we were....

Peso to US$ rate in Sept. 1972 I think was P14.00 already.

This is timely. I've been asked to write about the history of the Ayuntamiento Building as part of its reconstruction/restoration by the Bureau of the Treasury......

Then maybe you can make singit sa imong research ang old Municipio sa Cebu (City Hall)? he he he

I've been trying to look for the history of the old building which I can't find
until now... who built it? when? design? etc. What I saw was those old blurred pictures with the American flag in front of the building facing Magellan's Cross.

This is timely. I've been asked to write about the history of the Ayuntamiento Building as part of its reconstruction/restoration by the Bureau of the Treasury......

Then maybe you can make singit sa imong research ang old Municipio sa Cebu (City Hall)? he he he

I've been trying to look for the history of the old building which I can't find
until now... who built it? when? design? etc. What I saw was those old blurred pictures with the American flag in front of the building facing Magellan's Cross.

I hope the archdiocese can set funds to reconstruct the Bishop's Palace across the cathedral. It would still house the Patria though.


...

I hope the archdiocese can set funds to reconstruct the Bishop's Palace across the cathedral. It would still house the Patria though.


...

Then maybe you can make singit sa imong research ang old Municipio sa Cebu (City Hall)? he he he

I've been trying to look for the history of the old building which I can't find
until now... who built it? when? design? etc. What I saw was those old blurred pictures with the American flag in front of the building facing Magellan's Cross.

If I'm not mistaken, the National Archives has the plans and presupuesto of the Casas Consistoriales de Cebu, which is what the old municipio building was once called. let me look for the plans from my records. i think i have photos of the plans somwhere....


now for some update:

we finally met with the MCDP project management togather with Kajima Construction, the contractor, this morning during their regular monthly meeting.

It appears that our apprehensions that they were not doing anything about the looting is incorrect. In fact, during their August regular meeting, this was discussed thoroughly. In fact, CIIB police personnel were called in to investigate. Apparently, the project management and Kajima already wrote NM three months ago requesting for assistance. They also arrested a few workers and asked those who stole from the site to return them.

I asked Rico Lucena and ABS-CBN to be at the meeting para madocument jud. It appeared on TV patrol today. I'm very happy with the results. Wala magpabaya ang project management. Ambot lang ng CHAC. Chaca jud tinagli kaau form what I gather sa opnion sa NM.

NM is dealing directly with the project management from now on.

On a personal note, I purposely asked Rico to avoid mentioning my presence in the meeting because I am identified with Capitol. Lisud na if mahimo unya ning sugnod sa kagubot.

But, all is well that ends well.

Then maybe you can make singit sa imong research ang old Municipio sa Cebu (City Hall)? he he he

I've been trying to look for the history of the old building which I can't find
until now... who built it? when? design? etc. What I saw was those old blurred pictures with the American flag in front of the building facing Magellan's Cross.

If I'm not mistaken, the National Archives has the plans and presupuesto of the Casas Consistoriales de Cebu, which is what the old municipio building was once called. let me look for the plans from my records. i think i have photos of the plans somwhere....


now for some update:

we finally met with the MCDP project management togather with Kajima Construction, the contractor, this morning during their regular monthly meeting.

It appears that our apprehensions that they were not doing anything about the looting is incorrect. In fact, during their August regular meeting, this was discussed thoroughly. In fact, CIIB police personnel were called in to investigate. Apparently, the project management and Kajima already wrote NM three months ago requesting for assistance. They also arrested a few workers and asked those who stole from the site to return them.

I asked Rico Lucena and ABS-CBN to be at the meeting para madocument jud. It appeared on TV patrol today. I'm very happy with the results. Wala magpabaya ang project management. Ambot lang ng CHAC. Chaca jud tinagli kaau form what I gather sa opnion sa NM.

NM is dealing directly with the project management from now on.

On a personal note, I purposely asked Rico to avoid mentioning my presence in the meeting because I am identified with Capitol. Lisud na if mahimo unya ning sugnod sa kagubot.

But, all is well that ends well.

If I'm not mistaken, the National Archives has the plans and presupuesto of the Casas Consistoriales de Cebu, which is what the old municipio building was once called. let me look for the plans from my records. i think i have photos of the plans somwhere....


now for some update:

we finally met with the MCDP project management togather with Kajima Construction, the contractor, this morning during their regular monthly meeting.

It appears that our apprehensions that they were not doing anything about the looting is incorrect. In fact, during their August regular meeting, this was discussed thoroughly. In fact, CIIB police personnel were called in to investigate. Apparently, the project management and Kajima already wrote NM three months ago requesting for assistance. They also arrested a few workers and asked those who stole from the site to return them.

I asked Rico Lucena and ABS-CBN to be at the meeting para madocument jud. It appeared on TV patrol today. I'm very happy with the results. Wala magpabaya ang project management. Ambot lang ng CHAC. Chaca jud tinagli kaau form what I gather sa opnion sa NM.

NM is dealing directly with the project management from now on.

On a personal note, I purposely asked Rico to avoid mentioning my presence in the meeting because I am identified with Capitol. Lisud na if mahimo unya ning sugnod sa kagubot.

But, all is well that ends well.

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.

2. Yes! I call the Kajima move a good sign BUT I will tell you an interesting story (theory?) when we meet personally. What I saw in TV is just the tip of the iceberg. And yes, I do believe that this thread is being monitored..

3. CHAC? HMMMMNN... until now I can't fathom why they will not "cooperate"
but very active sa sosyalan... they sponsored the Philately week together
with the Cebu Philatelic Society at SM... come to think of it, we're both
stamp collectors and we appreciate their recent activity and yet their priorities seems to be in a different channel .. there are more important
things to be done as a CHAC and not just sponsoring a stamp exhibit as far
as I am concerned.

Cheers and keep in touch...

If I'm not mistaken, the National Archives has the plans and presupuesto of the Casas Consistoriales de Cebu, which is what the old municipio building was once called. let me look for the plans from my records. i think i have photos of the plans somwhere....


now for some update:

we finally met with the MCDP project management togather with Kajima Construction, the contractor, this morning during their regular monthly meeting.

It appears that our apprehensions that they were not doing anything about the looting is incorrect. In fact, during their August regular meeting, this was discussed thoroughly. In fact, CIIB police personnel were called in to investigate. Apparently, the project management and Kajima already wrote NM three months ago requesting for assistance. They also arrested a few workers and asked those who stole from the site to return them.

I asked Rico Lucena and ABS-CBN to be at the meeting para madocument jud. It appeared on TV patrol today. I'm very happy with the results. Wala magpabaya ang project management. Ambot lang ng CHAC. Chaca jud tinagli kaau form what I gather sa opnion sa NM.

NM is dealing directly with the project management from now on.

On a personal note, I purposely asked Rico to avoid mentioning my presence in the meeting because I am identified with Capitol. Lisud na if mahimo unya ning sugnod sa kagubot.

But, all is well that ends well.

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.

2. Yes! I call the Kajima move a good sign BUT I will tell you an interesting story (theory?) when we meet personally. What I saw in TV is just the tip of the iceberg. And yes, I do believe that this thread is being monitored..

3. CHAC? HMMMMNN... until now I can't fathom why they will not "cooperate"
but very active sa sosyalan... they sponsored the Philately week together
with the Cebu Philatelic Society at SM... come to think of it, we're both
stamp collectors and we appreciate their recent activity and yet their priorities seems to be in a different channel .. there are more important
things to be done as a CHAC and not just sponsoring a stamp exhibit as far
as I am concerned.

Cheers and keep in touch...

^^

Diba CHAC is headed by Mr. Picornell?


..

^^

Diba CHAC is headed by Mr. Picornell?


..

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.

2. Yes! I call the Kajima move a good sign BUT I will tell you an interesting story (theory?) when we meet personally. What I saw in TV is just the tip of the iceberg. And yes, I do believe that this thread is being monitored..

3. CHAC? HMMMMNN... until now I can't fathom why they will not "cooperate"
but very active sa sosyalan... they sponsored the Philately week together
with the Cebu Philatelic Society at SM... come to think of it, we're both
stamp collectors and we appreciate their recent activity and yet their priorities seems to be in a different channel .. there are more important
things to be done as a CHAC and not just sponsoring a stamp exhibit as far
as I am concerned.

Cheers and keep in touch...


I think KAJIMA was very frank and honest. But then again, as the Japanese Project Manager stated, the work goes on until 9 p.m. and most of the time that the theft happens is when there are only very few workers.

We will never know whether there is really more than what has been recovered. Because even if antique collectors will show me things that they say they got from the site, who is there to know? Where are the exact coordinates?

Any photos in situ? Mao na ang diperensya sa collecting ug sa archaeology. The collectors themselves will never know whether they got their collection from the site---unless they recorded the whole process of retrieving them. Which is absolutely impossible. Syang lang ang ilang gipangcollect. walay provenance. no proof whatsoever.



now as regards CHAC, i do not think it is really that active...anyway, NM people did not really tell me categorically what it was that they experienced so that they felt negative regarding the whole affair with the plaza vis-a-vis the response of VM Rama.

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.

2. Yes! I call the Kajima move a good sign BUT I will tell you an interesting story (theory?) when we meet personally. What I saw in TV is just the tip of the iceberg. And yes, I do believe that this thread is being monitored..

3. CHAC? HMMMMNN... until now I can't fathom why they will not "cooperate"
but very active sa sosyalan... they sponsored the Philately week together
with the Cebu Philatelic Society at SM... come to think of it, we're both
stamp collectors and we appreciate their recent activity and yet their priorities seems to be in a different channel .. there are more important
things to be done as a CHAC and not just sponsoring a stamp exhibit as far
as I am concerned.

Cheers and keep in touch...


I think KAJIMA was very frank and honest. But then again, as the Japanese Project Manager stated, the work goes on until 9 p.m. and most of the time that the theft happens is when there are only very few workers.

We will never know whether there is really more than what has been recovered. Because even if antique collectors will show me things that they say they got from the site, who is there to know? Where are the exact coordinates?

Any photos in situ? Mao na ang diperensya sa collecting ug sa archaeology. The collectors themselves will never know whether they got their collection from the site---unless they recorded the whole process of retrieving them. Which is absolutely impossible. Syang lang ang ilang gipangcollect. walay provenance. no proof whatsoever.



now as regards CHAC, i do not think it is really that active...anyway, NM people did not really tell me categorically what it was that they experienced so that they felt negative regarding the whole affair with the plaza vis-a-vis the response of VM Rama.

^^

Diba CHAC is headed by Mr. Picornell?


..

CHAC is headed by VM Mike Rama.

^^

Diba CHAC is headed by Mr. Picornell?


..

CHAC is headed by VM Mike Rama.

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.



Below are photos I took of the plans. It's for the repair of the Casa Tribunal (or municipal hall) de Cebu diay, not Casas Consistoriales (which was never constructed I think). Now considering that as of August 22, the National Archives stopped allowing researchers to take digital photos of any of their documents, these unfortunately will be the only ones I have:


(P.S. Stupid kaau nang head sa documents divisions nila. she would rather allow photocopying of documents than digital photographs nga walay flash. i've never seen so much stupidity in my life! she doesn't seem to realize the difference between the high lumens of a xerox machine and a no-flash digital camera!!)


since the paper was large, it was difficult to take a single frame of the entire plan. so putol-putol ni...but you can actually stitch them together, i suppose.

Here are the photos:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal1.jpg

The facade.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal2.jpg

The facade with its wings (top) and the footprint of the property.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal0.jpg

The left wing.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal3.jpg

The lateral view and part of the left wing.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal7.jpg


Closeup of the footprint.




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal4.jpg

A school (?), part of the Tribunal building complex, and the right wing.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal5.jpg

Signature of Felix (or Felipe) Pelayo, ayudante mayor. The design is dated 14 Oct. 1885.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal6.jpg

Signature of Ricardo Vallespin, chief engineer of the Cuerpo de Obras Publicas in Manila, in 1885.

1. Thanks for your quick reply on the old municipio building, I know you have
it somewhere in you voluminous files.



Below are photos I took of the plans. It's for the repair of the Casa Tribunal (or municipal hall) de Cebu diay, not Casas Consistoriales (which was never constructed I think). Now considering that as of August 22, the National Archives stopped allowing researchers to take digital photos of any of their documents, these unfortunately will be the only ones I have:


(P.S. Stupid kaau nang head sa documents divisions nila. she would rather allow photocopying of documents than digital photographs nga walay flash. i've never seen so much stupidity in my life! she doesn't seem to realize the difference between the high lumens of a xerox machine and a no-flash digital camera!!)


since the paper was large, it was difficult to take a single frame of the entire plan. so putol-putol ni...but you can actually stitch them together, i suppose.

Here are the photos:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal1.jpg

The facade.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal2.jpg

The facade with its wings (top) and the footprint of the property.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal0.jpg

The left wing.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal3.jpg

The lateral view and part of the left wing.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal7.jpg


Closeup of the footprint.




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal4.jpg

A school (?), part of the Tribunal building complex, and the right wing.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal5.jpg

Signature of Felix (or Felipe) Pelayo, ayudante mayor. The design is dated 14 Oct. 1885.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal6.jpg

Signature of Ricardo Vallespin, chief engineer of the Cuerpo de Obras Publicas in Manila, in 1885.

Pardon me for my ignorance but what is CHAC?

Pardon me for my ignorance but what is CHAC?

Artifacts found in tunnel construction site
(from Sun.Star Cebu)

SOME pre-Spanish period artifacts like ceramics and skeletons dug up from the tunnel construction site at the Plaza Independencia area were turned over to National Museum representatives yesterday.

Several pieces of earthenware, stoneware, porcelain items, four skulls and other skeletons were dug up from the construction site in the past weeks.
But museum curators lamented that most of the artifacts might no longer be as valuable as they want them to be because of the current state they are in.

Most of them are already broken into many pieces because of the heavy equipment and were not properly documented, which diminishes its significance, said Ederick Miano, officer-in-charge of the National Museum branch in Fort San Pedro in Cebu City.

Settlements
“This is significant to Cebuano heritage because it traces the pre-Spanish settlements in this part of the city,” he said.

Experts from the archeology division of the National Museum are expected in Cebu next week to document and study the artifacts. They will be brought to the head office in Manila for documentation and will be returned to Cebu City for public viewing.

In a meeting yesterday with the Department of Public Works and Highways (DPWH) and the contractor of the tunnel, Kajima Construction Corp., it was agreed that all artifacts that will be recovered in the future will be turned over to the National Museum for proper documentation.

In the same meeting, Kajima also assured National Museum representatives that reports of their security guards and construction workers selling some artifacts are not true.

“They told us that it’s not true and that whatever they will recover will be turned over to the National Museum immediately. Unfortunately, what has been recovered are broken pieces because this is a disturbed site, although there are a few pieces that are still intact,” said Malou Samson, curator of the University of San Carlos (USC) museum.

Archaeology
Samson represents the National Museum Manila in all archaeological diggings and salvage excavation in Cebu.

“Sayang gyud, if there was earlier intervention by experts, these things could have been saved. So now there is an agreement that whatever they recover, they are not supposed to touch anything. They should inform us and take a photo of the artifact for documentation because it will no longer be of use if there is no documentation,” she told Sun.Star Cebu.

Skeletons were first dug up underneath Plaza Independencia during the early stages of the tunnel construction in 2006. But it was only last Aug. 28 when earthenware and stoneware were found.

The artifacts date back to the pre-Spanish and Spanish times, or at least 150 years ago.

With only two-thirds of the construction covered by digging activities, Miano and Samson are optimistic that more will be recovered from the site.

“It has been proven in previous excavations that Plaza Independencia is a probable pre-Spanish and Spanish period settlement and there are a lot of artifacts there. We will closely look at the diggings in the remaining one-third of the construction site, in the hope that we will find more,” said Samson. LCR

Artifacts found in tunnel construction site
(from Sun.Star Cebu)

SOME pre-Spanish period artifacts like ceramics and skeletons dug up from the tunnel construction site at the Plaza Independencia area were turned over to National Museum representatives yesterday.

Several pieces of earthenware, stoneware, porcelain items, four skulls and other skeletons were dug up from the construction site in the past weeks.
But museum curators lamented that most of the artifacts might no longer be as valuable as they want them to be because of the current state they are in.

Most of them are already broken into many pieces because of the heavy equipment and were not properly documented, which diminishes its significance, said Ederick Miano, officer-in-charge of the National Museum branch in Fort San Pedro in Cebu City.

Settlements
“This is significant to Cebuano heritage because it traces the pre-Spanish settlements in this part of the city,” he said.

Experts from the archeology division of the National Museum are expected in Cebu next week to document and study the artifacts. They will be brought to the head office in Manila for documentation and will be returned to Cebu City for public viewing.

In a meeting yesterday with the Department of Public Works and Highways (DPWH) and the contractor of the tunnel, Kajima Construction Corp., it was agreed that all artifacts that will be recovered in the future will be turned over to the National Museum for proper documentation.

In the same meeting, Kajima also assured National Museum representatives that reports of their security guards and construction workers selling some artifacts are not true.

“They told us that it’s not true and that whatever they will recover will be turned over to the National Museum immediately. Unfortunately, what has been recovered are broken pieces because this is a disturbed site, although there are a few pieces that are still intact,” said Malou Samson, curator of the University of San Carlos (USC) museum.

Archaeology
Samson represents the National Museum Manila in all archaeological diggings and salvage excavation in Cebu.

“Sayang gyud, if there was earlier intervention by experts, these things could have been saved. So now there is an agreement that whatever they recover, they are not supposed to touch anything. They should inform us and take a photo of the artifact for documentation because it will no longer be of use if there is no documentation,” she told Sun.Star Cebu.

Skeletons were first dug up underneath Plaza Independencia during the early stages of the tunnel construction in 2006. But it was only last Aug. 28 when earthenware and stoneware were found.

The artifacts date back to the pre-Spanish and Spanish times, or at least 150 years ago.

With only two-thirds of the construction covered by digging activities, Miano and Samson are optimistic that more will be recovered from the site.

“It has been proven in previous excavations that Plaza Independencia is a probable pre-Spanish and Spanish period settlement and there are a lot of artifacts there. We will closely look at the diggings in the remaining one-third of the construction site, in the hope that we will find more,” said Samson. LCR

In one of our dinner around, Ang tabi-an nga Dr. Mike Cullinane nahilum, ug naminaw nalang sa istorya..

Wa sad ko ka matikod, abi nako ug gikapoy lang..

Pagkasunod adlaw, misulti sya nakonga waa sya ganahi nga naminaw sa Collector nga nag yawyaw kabahin sa mga plato..

"Kani sya ming ni sya.. Ka na fake na,, kato pang" matud pa sa collector.

Apan nagkanayon si Dr Cullinane nga "Oo kabalo sya diin gikan ang maong plato, pero nahibal-an ba niya unsay kalambigitan sa plato gikan sa tsina ug sa ka-asuyan sa maong lugar diin hikaplagi ang maong plato?"

In one of our dinner around, Ang tabi-an nga Dr. Mike Cullinane nahilum, ug naminaw nalang sa istorya..

Wa sad ko ka matikod, abi nako ug gikapoy lang..

Pagkasunod adlaw, misulti sya nakonga waa sya ganahi nga naminaw sa Collector nga nag yawyaw kabahin sa mga plato..

"Kani sya ming ni sya.. Ka na fake na,, kato pang" matud pa sa collector.

Apan nagkanayon si Dr Cullinane nga "Oo kabalo sya diin gikan ang maong plato, pero nahibal-an ba niya unsay kalambigitan sa plato gikan sa tsina ug sa ka-asuyan sa maong lugar diin hikaplagi ang maong plato?"

Below are photos I took of the plans. It's for the repair of the Casa Tribunal (or municipal hall) de Cebu diay, not Casas Consistoriales (which was never constructed I think).

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal6.jpg

Signature of Ricardo Vallespin, chief engineer of the Cuerpo de Obras Publicas in Manila, in 1885.

Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives...

Anus-a kaha ko makabalik didto..

Below are photos I took of the plans. It's for the repair of the Casa Tribunal (or municipal hall) de Cebu diay, not Casas Consistoriales (which was never constructed I think).

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/cebutribunal6.jpg

Signature of Ricardo Vallespin, chief engineer of the Cuerpo de Obras Publicas in Manila, in 1885.

Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives...

Anus-a kaha ko makabalik didto..

Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives...




of course. part of heritage advocacy is to tell the world what you know, share what you have and learn about what you do not yet understand.


:cheers:

Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives...




of course. part of heritage advocacy is to tell the world what you know, share what you have and learn about what you do not yet understand.


:cheers:

Pardon me for my ignorance but what is CHAC?

Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission
of the City of Cebu. This was created way back in the 1970s to take care of the city's heritage.

Pardon me for my ignorance but what is CHAC?

Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission
of the City of Cebu. This was created way back in the 1970s to take care of the city's heritage.

nganong wa man na napangandaman sa kung kinsay responsible about artifacts and heritage of cebu sa pagsugod pa lang ana og kawt sa tunnel oi..gisayangan kayo kos mga possible pa unta nga makaykay og makuha ngadtos ilawom nga karon nawagtang na. naa untay representative sa city government nga mag-apong ngadto sa tunnel....hahay gahuot akong dughan...

nganong wa man na napangandaman sa kung kinsay responsible about artifacts and heritage of cebu sa pagsugod pa lang ana og kawt sa tunnel oi..gisayangan kayo kos mga possible pa unta nga makaykay og makuha ngadtos ilawom nga karon nawagtang na. naa untay representative sa city government nga mag-apong ngadto sa tunnel....hahay gahuot akong dughan...

nganong wa man na napangandaman sa kung kinsay responsible about artifacts and heritage of cebu sa pagsugod pa lang ana og kawt sa tunnel oi..gisayangan kayo kos mga possible pa unta nga makaykay og makuha ngadtos ilawom nga karon nawagtang na. naa untay representative sa city government nga mag-apong ngadto sa tunnel....hahay gahuot akong dughan...

i agree. bitaw. makahuot sa dughan. the artifacts could have told the incomplete story of our pre-spanish past.

nganong wa man na napangandaman sa kung kinsay responsible about artifacts and heritage of cebu sa pagsugod pa lang ana og kawt sa tunnel oi..gisayangan kayo kos mga possible pa unta nga makaykay og makuha ngadtos ilawom nga karon nawagtang na. naa untay representative sa city government nga mag-apong ngadto sa tunnel....hahay gahuot akong dughan...

i agree. bitaw. makahuot sa dughan. the artifacts could have told the incomplete story of our pre-spanish past.

i agree. bitaw. makahuot sa dughan. the artifacts could have told the incomplete story of our pre-spanish past.


daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!

on the first month sa pagkawt jud sa plaza, on top of my work sa boljoon, ako gi-meet si city hall administrator Bimbo Fernandez and si Boomboom Miano (curator sa NM branch at fort san pedro) para mapasabot ang panginahanglan to monitor the work. but nothing happened kay NM never sent any deputization papers to me. sige ko tawag every three months or so to tell them to find a way to monitor the work. sige lang promise nga padad-an ko deputization powers. wala jud...well until last tuesday, when Malou and I were finally deputized. (the sunstar report on this mentioned only Malou).


it us very unfortunate that the laws on cultural property in this country are not like those of the u.s. where archaeologists working in universities can intervene anytime there is any kind of excavation going on in their midst.

sa pinas, national museum ra jud ang naay gahum mo-monitor ug mosulod sa mga construction/development projects. grabe ka-centralized ang power sa NM. ang amo deputization powers allow us only to look at the site and observe the work (and not touch or remove the artifacts)!!! can you imagine that????

it is so different in the U.S. and Europe, especially in Holland, where virtually anyone can order a stop to a project if artifacts are found!


so all i could do was write a column about it because di na jud nako maagwanta ang akong nadunggan. i also called up national museum last week to really demand that something be done. in fact, nalipay sila sa article ug ila gipakita kang VM Rama. i am not at liberty to tell you what transpired sa meeting pero migawas nga pasa-pasa ang isyu to another office, i think CHAC.

kana pong CHAC ambot lang unsay mandate nila. naa pod nang parks and palygrounds office sa city hall (where the plaza is under them). naa pod ang tourism office. kana sila tanan murag mga way deparal sa nahitabo.

i found it extremely, extremely, extremely, difficult to intervene tungod kay consultant ko sa capitol and this project is under the city. knowing the on-going verbal skrimish between the gov and tomas, i knew i was treading on very dangerous grounds if ever mobanat ko ngano wa juy gibuhat ang city government.

hahay...sakit pamalandungon ning nahitabo.

sa amsterdam, pagbuhat nila sa mga subways (in between the dikes ha!!!), pwerte ka daghang archaeologists on site 24 hours a day, recording and removing every artifact that was dug up!!!

mao ni nga ang archaeology sa pilipinas very, very marginalized. grabe kacentralized ang right to carry out archaeological excavations. if this will not change, more and more of this subway incident will happen!!!

P.D. 374, the cultural properties act, and R.A. 4868, the National Museum Act of 1998 need to be overhauled i think. universities with archaeology or anthropology programs should be allowed to carry out independent archaeological research.

unless these laws are amended, archaeological theory in this country will remain in the doldrums. becauswe universities will find it difficult to do archaeology independent of NM. i do not blame people at NM. they are friends of mine. they are only following the law. but the law is working against archaeology.

our u.s. and european colleagues can only shake their heads when they learn about how difficult it is for universities to carry out archaeological research in this country.

meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?

i agree. bitaw. makahuot sa dughan. the artifacts could have told the incomplete story of our pre-spanish past.


daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!

on the first month sa pagkawt jud sa plaza, on top of my work sa boljoon, ako gi-meet si city hall administrator Bimbo Fernandez and si Boomboom Miano (curator sa NM branch at fort san pedro) para mapasabot ang panginahanglan to monitor the work. but nothing happened kay NM never sent any deputization papers to me. sige ko tawag every three months or so to tell them to find a way to monitor the work. sige lang promise nga padad-an ko deputization powers. wala jud...well until last tuesday, when Malou and I were finally deputized. (the sunstar report on this mentioned only Malou).


it us very unfortunate that the laws on cultural property in this country are not like those of the u.s. where archaeologists working in universities can intervene anytime there is any kind of excavation going on in their midst.

sa pinas, national museum ra jud ang naay gahum mo-monitor ug mosulod sa mga construction/development projects. grabe ka-centralized ang power sa NM. ang amo deputization powers allow us only to look at the site and observe the work (and not touch or remove the artifacts)!!! can you imagine that????

it is so different in the U.S. and Europe, especially in Holland, where virtually anyone can order a stop to a project if artifacts are found!


so all i could do was write a column about it because di na jud nako maagwanta ang akong nadunggan. i also called up national museum last week to really demand that something be done. in fact, nalipay sila sa article ug ila gipakita kang VM Rama. i am not at liberty to tell you what transpired sa meeting pero migawas nga pasa-pasa ang isyu to another office, i think CHAC.

kana pong CHAC ambot lang unsay mandate nila. naa pod nang parks and palygrounds office sa city hall (where the plaza is under them). naa pod ang tourism office. kana sila tanan murag mga way deparal sa nahitabo.

i found it extremely, extremely, extremely, difficult to intervene tungod kay consultant ko sa capitol and this project is under the city. knowing the on-going verbal skrimish between the gov and tomas, i knew i was treading on very dangerous grounds if ever mobanat ko ngano wa juy gibuhat ang city government.

hahay...sakit pamalandungon ning nahitabo.

sa amsterdam, pagbuhat nila sa mga subways (in between the dikes ha!!!), pwerte ka daghang archaeologists on site 24 hours a day, recording and removing every artifact that was dug up!!!

mao ni nga ang archaeology sa pilipinas very, very marginalized. grabe kacentralized ang right to carry out archaeological excavations. if this will not change, more and more of this subway incident will happen!!!

P.D. 374, the cultural properties act, and R.A. 4868, the National Museum Act of 1998 need to be overhauled i think. universities with archaeology or anthropology programs should be allowed to carry out independent archaeological research.

unless these laws are amended, archaeological theory in this country will remain in the doldrums. becauswe universities will find it difficult to do archaeology independent of NM. i do not blame people at NM. they are friends of mine. they are only following the law. but the law is working against archaeology.

our u.s. and european colleagues can only shake their heads when they learn about how difficult it is for universities to carry out archaeological research in this country.

meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?

.......

We will never know whether there is really more than what has been recovered. Because even if antique collectors will show me things that they say they got from the site, who is there to know? Where are the exact coordinates? .....

...Any photos in site? Mao na ang diperensya sa collecting ug sa archaeology. The collectors themselves will never know whether they got their collection from the site---unless they recorded the whole process of retrieving them. Which is absolutely impossible. Syang lang ang ilang gipangcollect. walay provenance. no proof whatsoever.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, I AGREE WITH YOU. Now I know the difference between
a collector and an achaeologist!

Curious:

1. The Casa Tribunal based on the building plans you posted was indeed constructed (renovated) based on the old pictures that we have in this thread. Sorry can't post the old Casa image compared to the Municipio image during the American occupation then compare it to the present Legislative
building now. (I lost my codigo how to do it ..he he he). Was the Casa (based on the plan) destroyed/demolished by the Americans? Was the
Municipio during the American time destroyed during WW2?

2. Am curious who designed and constructed the Legislative building now...
When was it constructed? We already have the history of the Capitol Building
but medyo kulang pa sa City Hall....

Daghan salamat sa pag post nimo sa pics/plan of the Casa Tribunal and I
do have the same gratitude as what Ka Bino said: " Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives..."

.......

We will never know whether there is really more than what has been recovered. Because even if antique collectors will show me things that they say they got from the site, who is there to know? Where are the exact coordinates? .....

...Any photos in site? Mao na ang diperensya sa collecting ug sa archaeology. The collectors themselves will never know whether they got their collection from the site---unless they recorded the whole process of retrieving them. Which is absolutely impossible. Syang lang ang ilang gipangcollect. walay provenance. no proof whatsoever.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, I AGREE WITH YOU. Now I know the difference between
a collector and an achaeologist!

Curious:

1. The Casa Tribunal based on the building plans you posted was indeed constructed (renovated) based on the old pictures that we have in this thread. Sorry can't post the old Casa image compared to the Municipio image during the American occupation then compare it to the present Legislative
building now. (I lost my codigo how to do it ..he he he). Was the Casa (based on the plan) destroyed/demolished by the Americans? Was the
Municipio during the American time destroyed during WW2?

2. Am curious who designed and constructed the Legislative building now...
When was it constructed? We already have the history of the Capitol Building
but medyo kulang pa sa City Hall....

Daghan salamat sa pag post nimo sa pics/plan of the Casa Tribunal and I
do have the same gratitude as what Ka Bino said: " Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives..."

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, I AGREE WITH YOU. Now I know the difference between
a collector and an achaeologist!

Curious:

1. The Casa Tribunal based on the building plans you posted was indeed constructed (renovated) based on the old pictures that we have in this thread. Sorry can't post the old Casa image compared to the Municipio image during the American occupation then compare it to the present Legislative
building now. (I lost my codigo how to do it ..he he he). Was the Casa (based on the plan) destroyed/demolished by the Americans? Was the
Municipio during the American time destroyed during WW2?

2. Am curious who designed and constructed the Legislative building now...
When was it constructed? We already have the history of the Capitol Building
but medyo kulang pa sa City Hall....

Daghan salamat sa pag post nimo sa pics/plan of the Casa Tribunal and I
do have the same gratitude as what Ka Bino said: " Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives..."


I asked Archt. Ellis Puerto (of the USC Institute of Planning and Design), who headed the recent renovation of the city hall about the postwar building. he says no architect has been identified in the plans. the edifice was built after the war through the U.S. War Rehabilitation Act.

But I remember encountering an article about the plan for this particular postwar building.

i think the old casa tribunal did not survive World War II.

i have to share what i have because i can't bring them to my grave when I die...hahaha. simbaku!

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, I AGREE WITH YOU. Now I know the difference between
a collector and an achaeologist!

Curious:

1. The Casa Tribunal based on the building plans you posted was indeed constructed (renovated) based on the old pictures that we have in this thread. Sorry can't post the old Casa image compared to the Municipio image during the American occupation then compare it to the present Legislative
building now. (I lost my codigo how to do it ..he he he). Was the Casa (based on the plan) destroyed/demolished by the Americans? Was the
Municipio during the American time destroyed during WW2?

2. Am curious who designed and constructed the Legislative building now...
When was it constructed? We already have the history of the Capitol Building
but medyo kulang pa sa City Hall....

Daghan salamat sa pag post nimo sa pics/plan of the Casa Tribunal and I
do have the same gratitude as what Ka Bino said: " Salamat kay maantigo sad kang mo share sa imung mga nakaplagan sa Archives..."


I asked Archt. Ellis Puerto (of the USC Institute of Planning and Design), who headed the recent renovation of the city hall about the postwar building. he says no architect has been identified in the plans. the edifice was built after the war through the U.S. War Rehabilitation Act.

But I remember encountering an article about the plan for this particular postwar building.

i think the old casa tribunal did not survive World War II.

i have to share what i have because i can't bring them to my grave when I die...hahaha. simbaku!

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.

daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!..............

.....meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?


Ahaaaay... I can only symphatize with you.. but I know all the readers in this
thread will have that same feeling too... what can we do? A heritage watchdog again as what i was always advocating? Maybe one of us here in
this thread can be a regular columnist just as a "watchdog" (subject to the whims of the editor in chief for obvious reasons)... I understand
your predicament esp between Gwen and Tom, ... it seems that there are
so many things in this world that are beyond our control .... but somehow we
can contribute in our own small ways...

daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!..............

.....meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?


Ahaaaay... I can only symphatize with you.. but I know all the readers in this
thread will have that same feeling too... what can we do? A heritage watchdog again as what i was always advocating? Maybe one of us here in
this thread can be a regular columnist just as a "watchdog" (subject to the whims of the editor in chief for obvious reasons)... I understand
your predicament esp between Gwen and Tom, ... it seems that there are
so many things in this world that are beyond our control .... but somehow we
can contribute in our own small ways...

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

Bai Parianon, if I remember it right you used to be a regular contributor in one
of our local dailies (with chinggay?)... now that you are into this, maybe you can do your share in our common passion? he he he

thanks jo for speaking about it in your column considering the explosive political waters you are treading. heritage concerns can easily be dragged in the ongoing battle between the province and the city.

Bai Parianon, if I remember it right you used to be a regular contributor in one
of our local dailies (with chinggay?)... now that you are into this, maybe you can do your share in our common passion? he he he

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!


KEEP IT UP JO!

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!


KEEP IT UP JO!

daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!

on the first month sa pagkawt jud sa plaza, on top of my work sa boljoon, ako gi-meet si city hall administrator Bimbo Fernandez and si Boomboom Miano (curator sa NM branch at fort san pedro) para mapasabot ang panginahanglan to monitor the work. but nothing happened kay NM never sent any deputization papers to me. sige ko tawag every three months or so to tell them to find a way to monitor the work. sige lang promise nga padad-an ko deputization powers. wala jud...well until last tuesday, when Malou and I were finally deputized. (the sunstar report on this mentioned only Malou).


it us very unfortunate that the laws on cultural property in this country are not like those of the u.s. where archaeologists working in universities can intervene anytime there is any kind of excavation going on in their midst.

sa pinas, national museum ra jud ang naay gahum mo-monitor ug mosulod sa mga construction/development projects. grabe ka-centralized ang power sa NM. ang amo deputization powers allow us only to look at the site and observe the work (and not touch or remove the artifacts)!!! can you imagine that????

it is so different in the U.S. and Europe, especially in Holland, where virtually anyone can order a stop to a project if artifacts are found!


so all i could do was write a column about it because di na jud nako maagwanta ang akong nadunggan. i also called up national museum last week to really demand that something be done. in fact, nalipay sila sa article ug ila gipakita kang VM Rama. i am not at liberty to tell you what transpired sa meeting pero migawas nga pasa-pasa ang isyu to another office, i think CHAC.

kana pong CHAC ambot lang unsay mandate nila. naa pod nang parks and palygrounds office sa city hall (where the plaza is under them). naa pod ang tourism office. kana sila tanan murag mga way deparal sa nahitabo.

i found it extremely, extremely, extremely, difficult to intervene tungod kay consultant ko sa capitol and this project is under the city. knowing the on-going verbal skrimish between the gov and tomas, i knew i was treading on very dangerous grounds if ever mobanat ko ngano wa juy gibuhat ang city government.

hahay...sakit pamalandungon ning nahitabo.

sa amsterdam, pagbuhat nila sa mga subways (in between the dikes ha!!!), pwerte ka daghang archaeologists on site 24 hours a day, recording and removing every artifact that was dug up!!!

mao ni nga ang archaeology sa pilipinas very, very marginalized. grabe kacentralized ang right to carry out archaeological excavations. if this will not change, more and more of this subway incident will happen!!!

P.D. 374, the cultural properties act, and R.A. 4868, the National Museum Act of 1998 need to be overhauled i think. universities with archaeology or anthropology programs should be allowed to carry out independent archaeological research.

unless these laws are amended, archaeological theory in this country will remain in the doldrums. becauswe universities will find it difficult to do archaeology independent of NM. i do not blame people at NM. they are friends of mine. they are only following the law. but the law is working against archaeology.

our u.s. and european colleagues can only shake their heads when they learn about how difficult it is for universities to carry out archaeological research in this country.

meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?

Hahay...Makawala sa gana ning taga National Government oi...We really can not expect much from them...Ambot lang pud kaha kung sa Manila ni nahitabo, basin kugihan kaayo ning mga kanahan, kay national exposure man ang interview interview sa TV... :)

Sayang gud kaayo tong mga artifacts oi.

Kanus-a pa man tawon ni magsugod ang Federalism oi....Sige ra kutob sa storya, way agi.

daghan kaau ang pabaya. una na ana ang national museum. giangkon jud nila nga naa silay pagkakulang sa pagmonitor. sa sugod pa lang sige na ko pangutana kinsa ang i-deputize to monitor the work.

three months ago nagpadala na ug letter ang Kajima asking for advise on what to do with the artiacts that they were finding all over the place, between 1 and 2 meters deep. wa jud lihuka sa usa ka division nga gisugo to respond sa letter!!!!

on the first month sa pagkawt jud sa plaza, on top of my work sa boljoon, ako gi-meet si city hall administrator Bimbo Fernandez and si Boomboom Miano (curator sa NM branch at fort san pedro) para mapasabot ang panginahanglan to monitor the work. but nothing happened kay NM never sent any deputization papers to me. sige ko tawag every three months or so to tell them to find a way to monitor the work. sige lang promise nga padad-an ko deputization powers. wala jud...well until last tuesday, when Malou and I were finally deputized. (the sunstar report on this mentioned only Malou).


it us very unfortunate that the laws on cultural property in this country are not like those of the u.s. where archaeologists working in universities can intervene anytime there is any kind of excavation going on in their midst.

sa pinas, national museum ra jud ang naay gahum mo-monitor ug mosulod sa mga construction/development projects. grabe ka-centralized ang power sa NM. ang amo deputization powers allow us only to look at the site and observe the work (and not touch or remove the artifacts)!!! can you imagine that????

it is so different in the U.S. and Europe, especially in Holland, where virtually anyone can order a stop to a project if artifacts are found!


so all i could do was write a column about it because di na jud nako maagwanta ang akong nadunggan. i also called up national museum last week to really demand that something be done. in fact, nalipay sila sa article ug ila gipakita kang VM Rama. i am not at liberty to tell you what transpired sa meeting pero migawas nga pasa-pasa ang isyu to another office, i think CHAC.

kana pong CHAC ambot lang unsay mandate nila. naa pod nang parks and palygrounds office sa city hall (where the plaza is under them). naa pod ang tourism office. kana sila tanan murag mga way deparal sa nahitabo.

i found it extremely, extremely, extremely, difficult to intervene tungod kay consultant ko sa capitol and this project is under the city. knowing the on-going verbal skrimish between the gov and tomas, i knew i was treading on very dangerous grounds if ever mobanat ko ngano wa juy gibuhat ang city government.

hahay...sakit pamalandungon ning nahitabo.

sa amsterdam, pagbuhat nila sa mga subways (in between the dikes ha!!!), pwerte ka daghang archaeologists on site 24 hours a day, recording and removing every artifact that was dug up!!!

mao ni nga ang archaeology sa pilipinas very, very marginalized. grabe kacentralized ang right to carry out archaeological excavations. if this will not change, more and more of this subway incident will happen!!!

P.D. 374, the cultural properties act, and R.A. 4868, the National Museum Act of 1998 need to be overhauled i think. universities with archaeology or anthropology programs should be allowed to carry out independent archaeological research.

unless these laws are amended, archaeological theory in this country will remain in the doldrums. becauswe universities will find it difficult to do archaeology independent of NM. i do not blame people at NM. they are friends of mine. they are only following the law. but the law is working against archaeology.

our u.s. and european colleagues can only shake their heads when they learn about how difficult it is for universities to carry out archaeological research in this country.

meanwhile, the looting continues everywhere and here in Cebu, where a university has the museum, the equipment, and the expertise to do archaeology, we cannot proceed without permits from NM. and without personnel from them to be hired for the project.

paet, di ba?

Hahay...Makawala sa gana ning taga National Government oi...We really can not expect much from them...Ambot lang pud kaha kung sa Manila ni nahitabo, basin kugihan kaayo ning mga kanahan, kay national exposure man ang interview interview sa TV... :)

Sayang gud kaayo tong mga artifacts oi.

Kanus-a pa man tawon ni magsugod ang Federalism oi....Sige ra kutob sa storya, way agi.

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

ooopsss....i really thought you were gavin kay in one of the threads i think you were identified as such hehehe....sorry.


:nuts:

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

ooopsss....i really thought you were gavin kay in one of the threads i think you were identified as such hehehe....sorry.


:nuts:

Ahaaaay... I can only symphatize with you.. but I know all the readers in this
thread will have that same feeling too... what can we do? A heritage watchdog again as what i was always advocating? Maybe one of us here in
this thread can be a regular columnist just as a "watchdog" (subject to the whims of the editor in chief for obvious reasons)... I understand
your predicament esp between Gwen and Tom, ... it seems that there are
so many things in this world that are beyond our control .... but somehow we
can contribute in our own small ways...

i know i am biased but the good thing about all this is that governor gwen is pouring funds for heritage conservation and advocacy.

the same cannot be said, alas, for the city.

and, some good news: the provincial board has finally passed the provincial heritage sites declaration ordinance!

the implementing rules and regulations which we helped prepare will hopefully be out soon.

Ahaaaay... I can only symphatize with you.. but I know all the readers in this
thread will have that same feeling too... what can we do? A heritage watchdog again as what i was always advocating? Maybe one of us here in
this thread can be a regular columnist just as a "watchdog" (subject to the whims of the editor in chief for obvious reasons)... I understand
your predicament esp between Gwen and Tom, ... it seems that there are
so many things in this world that are beyond our control .... but somehow we
can contribute in our own small ways...

i know i am biased but the good thing about all this is that governor gwen is pouring funds for heritage conservation and advocacy.

the same cannot be said, alas, for the city.

and, some good news: the provincial board has finally passed the provincial heritage sites declaration ordinance!

the implementing rules and regulations which we helped prepare will hopefully be out soon.

i know i am biased but the good thing about all this is that governor gwen is pouring funds for heritage conservation and advocacy.

the same cannot be said, alas, for the city.

and, some good news: the provincial board has finally passed the provincial heritage sites declaration ordinance!

the implementing rules and regulations which we helped prepare will hopefully be out soon.

Bai Archaeologue, at the moment I will not dare discuss the issues between
politics and heritage esp in cebu city, we still have a long way to go in terms
of political maturity he he he .... but when it comes to heritage conservation
and the support that goes with it, then I would like to think that I would support her for the principles behind it...

Again, keep it up!

i know i am biased but the good thing about all this is that governor gwen is pouring funds for heritage conservation and advocacy.

the same cannot be said, alas, for the city.

and, some good news: the provincial board has finally passed the provincial heritage sites declaration ordinance!

the implementing rules and regulations which we helped prepare will hopefully be out soon.

Bai Archaeologue, at the moment I will not dare discuss the issues between
politics and heritage esp in cebu city, we still have a long way to go in terms
of political maturity he he he .... but when it comes to heritage conservation
and the support that goes with it, then I would like to think that I would support her for the principles behind it...

Again, keep it up!

don't you worry guys. more of our friends in the media are writing about the issue of Fort San Pedro's damaged heritage finds. Check the papers tomorrow, or wait when these articles get posted here.

don't you worry guys. more of our friends in the media are writing about the issue of Fort San Pedro's damaged heritage finds. Check the papers tomorrow, or wait when these articles get posted here.

it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.


that's great news!! btw, parian is just like plaza independencia. it's good for archaeological diggings. different layers in the soil would tell the prespanish settlement, the Sangley presence and eventually those of the mestizos. how true is it that when foundations of Castrillo's heritage monument was dug, there were artifacts unearthed too? but the story was hushed as Castrillo had a timetable for his project and he had funding problems which may get compromised if the story came out? Imagine a monument celebrating heritage desecrating the heritage underneath.

it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.


that's great news!! btw, parian is just like plaza independencia. it's good for archaeological diggings. different layers in the soil would tell the prespanish settlement, the Sangley presence and eventually those of the mestizos. how true is it that when foundations of Castrillo's heritage monument was dug, there were artifacts unearthed too? but the story was hushed as Castrillo had a timetable for his project and he had funding problems which may get compromised if the story came out? Imagine a monument celebrating heritage desecrating the heritage underneath.

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

Hahaha Soy your Ralated to Don Blas _______ of Parian...

Welcome Aboard Don Blas Veles... the reason for the Juan Diyong Uprising hehehehehe..

Or was It Don Blas Sanson hehehe

i'm very sorry guys. but i'm not THE iconic Gavin Sanson Bagares. Gavin knows me though. I'm the other guy with a Blas _____ for an ancestor.

Hahaha Soy your Ralated to Don Blas _______ of Parian...

Welcome Aboard Don Blas Veles... the reason for the Juan Diyong Uprising hehehehehe..

Or was It Don Blas Sanson hehehe

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.

@archaeologue ... unsa may topics sa chinese studies ... basin mo-apply na lang ko sa usc inig graduate nako .... hehehe

your welcome, gavin. it may interest you to know that I had a talk with our father president sa usc and i offered the possiblity of a multidisciplinary study of old cebu (which means san nicolas to parian), in the areas of archaeology, social history, commercial history, demographics and land ownership, etc.(including chinese studies). he was very keen about it and asked me to submit a proposal. parian here we come!

:banana:

p.s. help me connect with old chinese and tsinoy families diha ha.

@archaeologue ... unsa may topics sa chinese studies ... basin mo-apply na lang ko sa usc inig graduate nako .... hehehe

that's great news!! btw, parian is just like plaza independencia. it's good for archaeological diggings. different layers in the soil would tell the prespanish settlement, the Sangley presence and eventually those of the mestizos. how true is it that when foundations of Castrillo's heritage monument was dug, there were artifacts unearthed too? but the story was hushed as Castrillo had a timetable for his project and he had funding problems which may get compromised if the story came out? Imagine a monument celebrating heritage desecrating the heritage underneath.


i heard about that about three years ago. unfortunately, i was studying abroad when this monument was being set up there.


it is highly like that the story is true. the parian plaza was surveyed by masao nishimura in 1984-86 for his dissertation on asian trading networks at the univ. of michigan. he found evidence of tradware ceramics there but i'm not sure if he excavated deep enough to find burials there.

that's great news!! btw, parian is just like plaza independencia. it's good for archaeological diggings. different layers in the soil would tell the prespanish settlement, the Sangley presence and eventually those of the mestizos. how true is it that when foundations of Castrillo's heritage monument was dug, there were artifacts unearthed too? but the story was hushed as Castrillo had a timetable for his project and he had funding problems which may get compromised if the story came out? Imagine a monument celebrating heritage desecrating the heritage underneath.


i heard about that about three years ago. unfortunately, i was studying abroad when this monument was being set up there.


it is highly like that the story is true. the parian plaza was surveyed by masao nishimura in 1984-86 for his dissertation on asian trading networks at the univ. of michigan. he found evidence of tradware ceramics there but i'm not sure if he excavated deep enough to find burials there.

@archaeologue ... unsa may topics sa chinese studies ... basin mo-apply na lang ko sa usc inig graduate nako .... hehehe




part of the research project is to conduct studies on various aspects of Tsinoy life in downtown cebu.

anyhow, i am trying to revive the chinese studies center at usc. this is how my talk with fr. pres. miranda started. he asked me what i really wanted with it. so i told him about the fact that the old colonial core of cebu remains unstudied. and so much of it would concern Tsinoy life.

di ba SVD man ka? we'd love to have you revive this program. naa na ko contact nga columban but it would be great to have an SVD do this kay USC is SVD owned baya.

@archaeologue ... unsa may topics sa chinese studies ... basin mo-apply na lang ko sa usc inig graduate nako .... hehehe




part of the research project is to conduct studies on various aspects of Tsinoy life in downtown cebu.

anyhow, i am trying to revive the chinese studies center at usc. this is how my talk with fr. pres. miranda started. he asked me what i really wanted with it. so i told him about the fact that the old colonial core of cebu remains unstudied. and so much of it would concern Tsinoy life.

di ba SVD man ka? we'd love to have you revive this program. naa na ko contact nga columban but it would be great to have an SVD do this kay USC is SVD owned baya.

we have one of the biggest sinological libary in europe, where i work at present .... gikomedyahan ko ni heinz k kung pwede ba daw nako dalhon ang tibook collection diha sa usc .... hehehe ... unya na lang kung mamatay na ning mga german diri ... just let me know about the details about the center, perhaps i can help because my director is actually interested in extending our presence in asia. we have an extension office connected with fujen university in taipei, we are trying to have one in beijing, basin sunod cebu ... hehehe ... but at present we have problem with personell ... but i will try my best, kung unsay akong matabang ...

we have one of the biggest sinological libary in europe, where i work at present .... gikomedyahan ko ni heinz k kung pwede ba daw nako dalhon ang tibook collection diha sa usc .... hehehe ... unya na lang kung mamatay na ning mga german diri ... just let me know about the details about the center, perhaps i can help because my director is actually interested in extending our presence in asia. we have an extension office connected with fujen university in taipei, we are trying to have one in beijing, basin sunod cebu ... hehehe ... but at present we have problem with personell ... but i will try my best, kung unsay akong matabang ...

of course. part of heritage advocacy is to tell the world what you know, share what you have and learn about what you do not yet understand.


:cheers:


Diba sila ZAIDE & Agoncillo isig tago-ay man to sila sa ilang mangakit-an

of course. part of heritage advocacy is to tell the world what you know, share what you have and learn about what you do not yet understand.


:cheers:


Diba sila ZAIDE & Agoncillo isig tago-ay man to sila sa ilang mangakit-an

I'm just curious, who is this collector? We've been mentioning about this guy in the previous threads..

Care to PM nalang kabino? Hehehe


@Bernie

CHAC means Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission.



In one of our dinner around, Ang tabi-an nga Dr. Mike Cullinane nahilum, ug naminaw nalang sa istorya..

Wa sad ko ka matikod, abi nako ug gikapoy lang..

Pagkasunod adlaw, misulti sya nakonga waa sya ganahi nga naminaw sa Collector nga nag yawyaw kabahin sa mga plato..

"Kani sya ming ni sya.. Ka na fake na,, kato pang" matud pa sa collector.

Apan nagkanayon si Dr Cullinane nga "Oo kabalo sya diin gikan ang maong plato, pero nahibal-an ba niya unsay kalambigitan sa plato gikan sa tsina ug sa ka-asuyan sa maong lugar diin hikaplagi ang maong plato?"

I'm just curious, who is this collector? We've been mentioning about this guy in the previous threads..

Care to PM nalang kabino? Hehehe


@Bernie

CHAC means Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission.



In one of our dinner around, Ang tabi-an nga Dr. Mike Cullinane nahilum, ug naminaw nalang sa istorya..

Wa sad ko ka matikod, abi nako ug gikapoy lang..

Pagkasunod adlaw, misulti sya nakonga waa sya ganahi nga naminaw sa Collector nga nag yawyaw kabahin sa mga plato..

"Kani sya ming ni sya.. Ka na fake na,, kato pang" matud pa sa collector.

Apan nagkanayon si Dr Cullinane nga "Oo kabalo sya diin gikan ang maong plato, pero nahibal-an ba niya unsay kalambigitan sa plato gikan sa tsina ug sa ka-asuyan sa maong lugar diin hikaplagi ang maong plato?"

we have one of the biggest sinological libary in europe, where i work at present .... gikomedyahan ko ni heinz k kung pwede ba daw nako dalhon ang tibook collection diha sa usc .... hehehe ... unya na lang kung mamatay na ning mga german diri ... just let me know about the details about the center, perhaps i can help because my director is actually interested in extending our presence in asia. we have an extension office connected with fujen university in taipei, we are trying to have one in beijing, basin sunod cebu ... hehehe ... but at present we have problem with personell ... but i will try my best, kung unsay akong matabang ...

what a coincidence! maka-kanta man sab tag "it's a small world after all" hahah...

ikaw diay ang pinoy SVD Tsinoy nga gipull-out of Taiwan para mo-manage sa 2-year old chinese studies center sa svd generalate diha sa Roma? right? the center which the benedictines also wanted to help out but wala pod silay resources?

fr. pres. miranda mentioned you and also of the problems of personnel plus the interest of italians and chinese there regarding the center. murag di daw kaau interesado ang mga chinese diha kay mga economic exiles na sila out of the people's republic?

dad-a na lang kaha na diri hahaha....

bitaw, uli una'g kadyot beh unya tabangi mi dri.

daghan byang intsik sa usc faculty and students. kuang lang jud ang pagkuhit.

we have one of the biggest sinological libary in europe, where i work at present .... gikomedyahan ko ni heinz k kung pwede ba daw nako dalhon ang tibook collection diha sa usc .... hehehe ... unya na lang kung mamatay na ning mga german diri ... just let me know about the details about the center, perhaps i can help because my director is actually interested in extending our presence in asia. we have an extension office connected with fujen university in taipei, we are trying to have one in beijing, basin sunod cebu ... hehehe ... but at present we have problem with personell ... but i will try my best, kung unsay akong matabang ...

what a coincidence! maka-kanta man sab tag "it's a small world after all" hahah...

ikaw diay ang pinoy SVD Tsinoy nga gipull-out of Taiwan para mo-manage sa 2-year old chinese studies center sa svd generalate diha sa Roma? right? the center which the benedictines also wanted to help out but wala pod silay resources?

fr. pres. miranda mentioned you and also of the problems of personnel plus the interest of italians and chinese there regarding the center. murag di daw kaau interesado ang mga chinese diha kay mga economic exiles na sila out of the people's republic?

dad-a na lang kaha na diri hahaha....

bitaw, uli una'g kadyot beh unya tabangi mi dri.

daghan byang intsik sa usc faculty and students. kuang lang jud ang pagkuhit.

I'm just curious, who is this collector? We've been mentioning about this guy in the previous threads..

Care to PM nalang kabino? Hehehe




ayaw i-PM, ka bino oi...i-post lang gud na dri...hehehe... aron makahibaw sya nga naay wa malingaw niya. makatabang bya na sa iyang personality development tsk tsk tsk.

I'm just curious, who is this collector? We've been mentioning about this guy in the previous threads..

Care to PM nalang kabino? Hehehe




ayaw i-PM, ka bino oi...i-post lang gud na dri...hehehe... aron makahibaw sya nga naay wa malingaw niya. makatabang bya na sa iyang personality development tsk tsk tsk.

Artifacts and a tunnel
By Bong Wenceslao, Sun.Star Cebu

I was not surprised that artifacts dating back to the Spanish and pre-Spanish eras were found at the site where a tunnel crossing the historic Plaza Independencia is being constructed. Historians have long reminded government officials of the importance of the site in the study of the province’s past. It looks like the said officials were not listening.

The P1.2 billion four-lane tunnel is a component of the Cebu South Coastal Road Project and its construction is being supervised by the Department of Public Works and Highways (DPWH). The tunnel connects the viaduct before the South Road Properties to Sergio Osmeña Blvd. It is almost a kilometer long and is targeted for completion in 2009.

To recall, there was much fuss about the project when it was first presented years ago. The worry swirled around the damage the construction may bring on the Plaza itself and the other structures, including houses of some 100 families in Barangay San Roque. But DPWH assured only one acacia tree and a few other structures will be affected.

The bigger concern, though, was the possible destruction of a site that is rich in archaeological significance. DPWH and the Cebu City Government thus coordinated with the Cebu National Historical Commission during the planning stage. There were talks of “archaeological rescue” but I don’t know if this was done and to what extent.

Judging from the reaction of people from the National Museum to reports that workers of Kajima Construction Corp. found several pieces of earthenware, porcelain and skeletons from the construction site, that archaeological rescue may not have rescued anything much. And coordination must have bogged down because experts are surprised.

One of the criticisms against us as a people is that we do not put much premium on historical studies. The reconstruction of our past, for example, is being done with a large contribution from foreigners and with less participation than expected from Pinoys. The result is that many of us are ignorant of the kind of life our forefathers lived.

Before the Spaniards came, Cebu was already a thriving community, its port visited by traders from other islands of the archipelago and even foreigners like the Chinese and the Muslims. Not many Cebuanos know that and there is even the mistaken belief that we became Cebu only after Ferdinand Magellan set foot on our soil.

Those artifacts found at the tunnel construction site would have gone a long way in clarifying our past had these been subjected to a scientific study and not destroyed.
(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)

Artifacts and a tunnel
By Bong Wenceslao, Sun.Star Cebu

I was not surprised that artifacts dating back to the Spanish and pre-Spanish eras were found at the site where a tunnel crossing the historic Plaza Independencia is being constructed. Historians have long reminded government officials of the importance of the site in the study of the province’s past. It looks like the said officials were not listening.

The P1.2 billion four-lane tunnel is a component of the Cebu South Coastal Road Project and its construction is being supervised by the Department of Public Works and Highways (DPWH). The tunnel connects the viaduct before the South Road Properties to Sergio Osmeña Blvd. It is almost a kilometer long and is targeted for completion in 2009.

To recall, there was much fuss about the project when it was first presented years ago. The worry swirled around the damage the construction may bring on the Plaza itself and the other structures, including houses of some 100 families in Barangay San Roque. But DPWH assured only one acacia tree and a few other structures will be affected.

The bigger concern, though, was the possible destruction of a site that is rich in archaeological significance. DPWH and the Cebu City Government thus coordinated with the Cebu National Historical Commission during the planning stage. There were talks of “archaeological rescue” but I don’t know if this was done and to what extent.

Judging from the reaction of people from the National Museum to reports that workers of Kajima Construction Corp. found several pieces of earthenware, porcelain and skeletons from the construction site, that archaeological rescue may not have rescued anything much. And coordination must have bogged down because experts are surprised.

One of the criticisms against us as a people is that we do not put much premium on historical studies. The reconstruction of our past, for example, is being done with a large contribution from foreigners and with less participation than expected from Pinoys. The result is that many of us are ignorant of the kind of life our forefathers lived.

Before the Spaniards came, Cebu was already a thriving community, its port visited by traders from other islands of the archipelago and even foreigners like the Chinese and the Muslims. Not many Cebuanos know that and there is even the mistaken belief that we became Cebu only after Ferdinand Magellan set foot on our soil.

Those artifacts found at the tunnel construction site would have gone a long way in clarifying our past had these been subjected to a scientific study and not destroyed.
(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)

Artifacts and a tunnel
By Bong Wenceslao, Sun.Star Cebu



DPWH and the Cebu City Government thus coordinated with the Cebu National Historical Commission during the planning stage. There were talks of “archaeological rescue” but I don’t know if this was done and to what extent.




this is a very good article. one that should add to the clamor for more action on the plaza subway project.

but bong has apparently not read my column last week on the work in the plaza. i am not surprised since i write for a different paper and maybe nobody reads my columns anyway hahahaah...so here is a slef-serving thread ha. mea culpa but i wish to share it here.

here goes the column i wrote last week (i have highlighted the portions which show how many studies have been conducted there and the ones that NM did as "rescue archaeology":


Past Forward
Lost secrets of the plaza


By Jobers Bersales
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 12:23:00 09/11/2008


It was called plaza de armas in the early 1600s, alluding to generic term for a public square used as military training and parade grounds. Later it was widened, bordering the properties across the Cathedral of Cebu, and was aptly called plaza mayor. Toward the twilight of Spanish colonial rule, it was landscaped, with borders finally defined and was christened Plaza Maria Cristina, in honor of the queen regent. When the Americans came, it was called Plaza Libertad, as the Americans were asserting that they had liberated Cebuanos from the yoke of Spanish oppression. Still, when the colonial masters had all left, it became what it has come to be called now: Plaza Independencia.

Today the plaza has aged with the unmistakable dignity of its acacia trees after seeing years of conflict interspersed with short periods of lull — an enduring mute witness to the comings and goings of colonial masters at nearby Fort San Pedro or, on the opposite side, the old Casa del Gobierno de Visayas, which until 1938 was the provincial capitol. This much some people know about the old plaza today where underneath is a subway under construction that will eventually connect the South Coastal Road to MacArthur Avenue leading to the North Reclamation Area.

What the general public does not realize are the secrets that lie beneath, the evidence of times long gone unearthed in four different periods of excavation within or adjacent to the plaza. My attention was called while I was on a brief vacation in Manila two weeks back when writers from this newspaper asked me if I knew about the artifacts that were alleged to have been surreptitiously removed and perhaps sold to unscrupulous collectors even as the subway project is going on. If this is true, then the Cebuano public missed its chance to see what secrets the plaza has yielded.

Fortunately, not all is lost. During the last three decades, four excavations have been conducted in and adjacent to the plaza, which have yielded tremendous information about the pre-colonial trading port called Sugbo, one of many that dotted the east coast of the island. The name “Sugbu,” which in old Cebuano language means to walk on or wade over swampy ground to reach dry land, is fully confirmed by the excavations that have been done in or near this 17,000-sq.-m. park. The 1984 University of Michigan excavations, as well as the 2000 and 2006 excavations by the National Museum — which were required as part of the archaeological assessment for the subway project — proved that four centuries of erosion from the nearby hills has raised this part of the city by an average of two meters.

Once you go that deep, the pre-colonial period begins, marked by a very sandy and wet swampland with burials accompanied by local earthenware and ceramics from China, Thailand and Vietnam. The 1971 excavations of the University of San Carlos inside Fort San Pedro, led by the late Dr. Marcelino Maceda, yielded Ming dynasty blue and white wares as well as Thai ceramics, dating most probably to between 1368 and 1500s. Magellan’s chronicler, Antonio de Pigafetta, mentioned a Siamese trading boat that had docked at the port three days before they arrived in Sugbo. The presence of Thai wares further reinforces his account. And reports I hear of artifacts being removed surreptitiously as the subway project progresses is very disheartening, to say the least. Whether true or not, the city government must ensure that this is looked into, if only because whatever artifacts are removed now will surely make for a good addition to the other artifacts that are now stored in the National Museum awaiting display in a future museum at Fort San Pedro.

More importantly, one of the recommendations made by the archaeological assessment team to the Department of Public Works and Highways, which supervises the subway project, is the stationing of a permanent monitor, an archaeologist, to observe the removal of earth as the project progresses. If this has not been followed through, then I can understand fully why these rumors about burials being uncovered and artifacts smuggled out persist even until today. Perhaps the plaza may be yielding some of her secrets but only to a select few. And this must stop.

Artifacts and a tunnel
By Bong Wenceslao, Sun.Star Cebu



DPWH and the Cebu City Government thus coordinated with the Cebu National Historical Commission during the planning stage. There were talks of “archaeological rescue” but I don’t know if this was done and to what extent.




this is a very good article. one that should add to the clamor for more action on the plaza subway project.

but bong has apparently not read my column last week on the work in the plaza. i am not surprised since i write for a different paper and maybe nobody reads my columns anyway hahahaah...so here is a slef-serving thread ha. mea culpa but i wish to share it here.

here goes the column i wrote last week (i have highlighted the portions which show how many studies have been conducted there and the ones that NM did as "rescue archaeology":


Past Forward
Lost secrets of the plaza


By Jobers Bersales
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 12:23:00 09/11/2008


It was called plaza de armas in the early 1600s, alluding to generic term for a public square used as military training and parade grounds. Later it was widened, bordering the properties across the Cathedral of Cebu, and was aptly called plaza mayor. Toward the twilight of Spanish colonial rule, it was landscaped, with borders finally defined and was christened Plaza Maria Cristina, in honor of the queen regent. When the Americans came, it was called Plaza Libertad, as the Americans were asserting that they had liberated Cebuanos from the yoke of Spanish oppression. Still, when the colonial masters had all left, it became what it has come to be called now: Plaza Independencia.

Today the plaza has aged with the unmistakable dignity of its acacia trees after seeing years of conflict interspersed with short periods of lull — an enduring mute witness to the comings and goings of colonial masters at nearby Fort San Pedro or, on the opposite side, the old Casa del Gobierno de Visayas, which until 1938 was the provincial capitol. This much some people know about the old plaza today where underneath is a subway under construction that will eventually connect the South Coastal Road to MacArthur Avenue leading to the North Reclamation Area.

What the general public does not realize are the secrets that lie beneath, the evidence of times long gone unearthed in four different periods of excavation within or adjacent to the plaza. My attention was called while I was on a brief vacation in Manila two weeks back when writers from this newspaper asked me if I knew about the artifacts that were alleged to have been surreptitiously removed and perhaps sold to unscrupulous collectors even as the subway project is going on. If this is true, then the Cebuano public missed its chance to see what secrets the plaza has yielded.

Fortunately, not all is lost. During the last three decades, four excavations have been conducted in and adjacent to the plaza, which have yielded tremendous information about the pre-colonial trading port called Sugbo, one of many that dotted the east coast of the island. The name “Sugbu,” which in old Cebuano language means to walk on or wade over swampy ground to reach dry land, is fully confirmed by the excavations that have been done in or near this 17,000-sq.-m. park. The 1984 University of Michigan excavations, as well as the 2000 and 2006 excavations by the National Museum — which were required as part of the archaeological assessment for the subway project — proved that four centuries of erosion from the nearby hills has raised this part of the city by an average of two meters.

Once you go that deep, the pre-colonial period begins, marked by a very sandy and wet swampland with burials accompanied by local earthenware and ceramics from China, Thailand and Vietnam. The 1971 excavations of the University of San Carlos inside Fort San Pedro, led by the late Dr. Marcelino Maceda, yielded Ming dynasty blue and white wares as well as Thai ceramics, dating most probably to between 1368 and 1500s. Magellan’s chronicler, Antonio de Pigafetta, mentioned a Siamese trading boat that had docked at the port three days before they arrived in Sugbo. The presence of Thai wares further reinforces his account. And reports I hear of artifacts being removed surreptitiously as the subway project progresses is very disheartening, to say the least. Whether true or not, the city government must ensure that this is looked into, if only because whatever artifacts are removed now will surely make for a good addition to the other artifacts that are now stored in the National Museum awaiting display in a future museum at Fort San Pedro.

More importantly, one of the recommendations made by the archaeological assessment team to the Department of Public Works and Highways, which supervises the subway project, is the stationing of a permanent monitor, an archaeologist, to observe the removal of earth as the project progresses. If this has not been followed through, then I can understand fully why these rumors about burials being uncovered and artifacts smuggled out persist even until today. Perhaps the plaza may be yielding some of her secrets but only to a select few. And this must stop.

those are cultural treasures of the Cebuano People! the sale and possession of these artifacts by private individuals should be become illegal, even punishable by death or an equally harsh penalty!

these items shouldn't even be taken out of Cebu!

those are cultural treasures of the Cebuano People! the sale and possession of these artifacts by private individuals should be become illegal, even punishable by death or an equally harsh penalty!

these items shouldn't even be taken out of Cebu!

those are cultural treasures of the Cebuano People! the sale and possession of these artifacts by private individuals should be become illegal, even punishable by death or an equally harsh penalty!

these items shouldn't even be taken out of Cebu!

those are cultural treasures of the Cebuano People! the sale and possession of these artifacts by private individuals should be become illegal, even punishable by death or an equally harsh penalty!

these items shouldn't even be taken out of Cebu!

ayaw i-PM, ka bino oi...i-post lang gud na dri...hehehe... aron makahibaw sya nga naay wa malingaw niya. makatabang bya na sa iyang personality development tsk tsk tsk.

ayyy, d lang ko oi,

kaila man ka nya Jo,, oi

basta sya nato..

ayaw i-PM, ka bino oi...i-post lang gud na dri...hehehe... aron makahibaw sya nga naay wa malingaw niya. makatabang bya na sa iyang personality development tsk tsk tsk.

ayyy, d lang ko oi,

kaila man ka nya Jo,, oi

basta sya nato..

ayyy, d lang ko oi,

kaila man ka nya Jo,, oi

basta sya nato..

hahaha....


member sa Hambin?

sige na, tell me pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!

:bash:

ayyy, d lang ko oi,

kaila man ka nya Jo,, oi

basta sya nato..

hahaha....


member sa Hambin?

sige na, tell me pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!

:bash:

what a coincidence! maka-kanta man sab tag "it's a small world after all" hahah...

ikaw diay ang pinoy SVD Tsinoy nga gipull-out of Taiwan para mo-manage sa 2-year old chinese studies center sa svd generalate diha sa Roma? right? the center which the benedictines also wanted to help out but wala pod silay resources?

fr. pres. miranda mentioned you and also of the problems of personnel plus the interest of italians and chinese there regarding the center. murag di daw kaau interesado ang mga chinese diha kay mga economic exiles na sila out of the people's republic?

dad-a na lang kaha na diri hahaha....

bitaw, uli una'g kadyot beh unya tabangi mi dri.

daghan byang intsik sa usc faculty and students. kuang lang jud ang pagkuhit.

no ... i'm not the one mentioned by diony ... it's king belamide, who has a doctorate on confucianism .... he started the freinademetz study center in rome. his main "clients" are the chinese students in rome ... i'm connected with institut monumenta serica, which is in contact with chinese scholars and western scholars on china ... pero eskwela pa ko kay minimum requirement sa institute kay doctoral degree ...

last saturday nag-istorya ko sa akong director ingon siya naay proposed project ang usa ka professor sa university of bonn in cooperation with our institute mahitungod sa christianity in asia .... duha ni siya ka parte ... una ang conversion sa mga natives to christianity ... ikaduha ... ang conversion sa overseas chinese to christianity ... pero naa pa sa planning stage ...

mamalita lang nya ko nimo kung unsay latest development ... kung plano buhi-on ning plano para sa chinese center sa usc, i think, importante klarohon kung unsay direction sa center -- unsa ni siya research center, language center (in this case pwede seguro makig tie up sa mandarin language center sa fu jen university) o information center --- o naa na ni tanan ... kung naa kay concept about the center, padalhi unya ko, basin pwede ko katabang pangita ug institutions nga makig tie up sa usc --- pero kinahanglan pod naay tao sa usc nga directly responsbile for this project ...

what a coincidence! maka-kanta man sab tag "it's a small world after all" hahah...

ikaw diay ang pinoy SVD Tsinoy nga gipull-out of Taiwan para mo-manage sa 2-year old chinese studies center sa svd generalate diha sa Roma? right? the center which the benedictines also wanted to help out but wala pod silay resources?

fr. pres. miranda mentioned you and also of the problems of personnel plus the interest of italians and chinese there regarding the center. murag di daw kaau interesado ang mga chinese diha kay mga economic exiles na sila out of the people's republic?

dad-a na lang kaha na diri hahaha....

bitaw, uli una'g kadyot beh unya tabangi mi dri.

daghan byang intsik sa usc faculty and students. kuang lang jud ang pagkuhit.

no ... i'm not the one mentioned by diony ... it's king belamide, who has a doctorate on confucianism .... he started the freinademetz study center in rome. his main "clients" are the chinese students in rome ... i'm connected with institut monumenta serica, which is in contact with chinese scholars and western scholars on china ... pero eskwela pa ko kay minimum requirement sa institute kay doctoral degree ...

last saturday nag-istorya ko sa akong director ingon siya naay proposed project ang usa ka professor sa university of bonn in cooperation with our institute mahitungod sa christianity in asia .... duha ni siya ka parte ... una ang conversion sa mga natives to christianity ... ikaduha ... ang conversion sa overseas chinese to christianity ... pero naa pa sa planning stage ...

mamalita lang nya ko nimo kung unsay latest development ... kung plano buhi-on ning plano para sa chinese center sa usc, i think, importante klarohon kung unsay direction sa center -- unsa ni siya research center, language center (in this case pwede seguro makig tie up sa mandarin language center sa fu jen university) o information center --- o naa na ni tanan ... kung naa kay concept about the center, padalhi unya ko, basin pwede ko katabang pangita ug institutions nga makig tie up sa usc --- pero kinahanglan pod naay tao sa usc nga directly responsbile for this project ...

no ... i'm not the one mentioned by diony ... it's king belamide, who has a doctorate on confucianism .... he started the freinademetz study center in rome. his main "clients" are the chinese students in rome ... i'm connected with institut monumenta serica, which is in contact with chinese scholars and western scholars on china ... pero eskwela pa ko kay minimum requirement sa institute kay doctoral degree ...

last saturday nag-istorya ko sa akong director ingon siya naay proposed project ang usa ka professor sa university of bonn in cooperation with our institute mahitungod sa christianity in asia .... duha ni siya ka parte ... una ang conversion sa mga natives to christianity ... ikaduha ... ang conversion sa overseas chinese to christianity ... pero naa pa sa planning stage ...

mamalita lang nya ko nimo kung unsay latest development ... kung plano buhi-on ning plano para sa chinese center sa usc, i think, importante klarohon kung unsay direction sa center -- unsa ni siya research center, language center (in this case pwede seguro makig tie up sa mandarin language center sa fu jen university) o information center --- o naa na ni tanan ... kung naa kay concept about the center, padalhi unya ko, basin pwede ko katabang pangita ug institutions nga makig tie up sa usc --- pero kinahanglan pod naay tao sa usc nga directly responsbile for this project ...



ah, ok, gee...i am familiar with monumenta serica. i think fr. baumgartner used to work under that center during the Fu Jen years in Beijing (pre-1949). i will PM you the concept paper now.

any help will do....importante jud ang tabang sa mga SVDs abroad ani.

good luck on your dissertation.

no ... i'm not the one mentioned by diony ... it's king belamide, who has a doctorate on confucianism .... he started the freinademetz study center in rome. his main "clients" are the chinese students in rome ... i'm connected with institut monumenta serica, which is in contact with chinese scholars and western scholars on china ... pero eskwela pa ko kay minimum requirement sa institute kay doctoral degree ...

last saturday nag-istorya ko sa akong director ingon siya naay proposed project ang usa ka professor sa university of bonn in cooperation with our institute mahitungod sa christianity in asia .... duha ni siya ka parte ... una ang conversion sa mga natives to christianity ... ikaduha ... ang conversion sa overseas chinese to christianity ... pero naa pa sa planning stage ...

mamalita lang nya ko nimo kung unsay latest development ... kung plano buhi-on ning plano para sa chinese center sa usc, i think, importante klarohon kung unsay direction sa center -- unsa ni siya research center, language center (in this case pwede seguro makig tie up sa mandarin language center sa fu jen university) o information center --- o naa na ni tanan ... kung naa kay concept about the center, padalhi unya ko, basin pwede ko katabang pangita ug institutions nga makig tie up sa usc --- pero kinahanglan pod naay tao sa usc nga directly responsbile for this project ...



ah, ok, gee...i am familiar with monumenta serica. i think fr. baumgartner used to work under that center during the Fu Jen years in Beijing (pre-1949). i will PM you the concept paper now.

any help will do....importante jud ang tabang sa mga SVDs abroad ani.

good luck on your dissertation.

hahaha....


member sa Hambin?

sige na, tell me pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!

:bash:

Ayaw lang ipa-klaro kay dako rabang tawo, dapogon unya ta niya..

hahaha....


member sa Hambin?

sige na, tell me pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!

:bash:

Ayaw lang ipa-klaro kay dako rabang tawo, dapogon unya ta niya..

timeless heritage concerns that help define the cebuano soul ought to transcend the temporary political bickerings of the city and provincial officials. after all, we are all cebuanos and have a stake in the story to be told by what piece of artifact or human skeletal remains that the plaza could have yielded.

timeless heritage concerns that help define the cebuano soul ought to transcend the temporary political bickerings of the city and provincial officials. after all, we are all cebuanos and have a stake in the story to be told by what piece of artifact or human skeletal remains that the plaza could have yielded.

ah, ok, gee...i am familiar with monumenta serica. i think fr. baumgartner used to work under that center during the Fu Jen years in Beijing (pre-1949). i will PM you the concept paper now.

any help will do....importante jud ang tabang sa mga SVDs abroad ani.

good luck on your dissertation.

gi-pm na nako akong email ... it was fr. rahmann ... he was the editor of the journal monumenta serica when he was in beijing ... here's our website to give an idea about our work: http://www.monumenta-serica.de/

ah, ok, gee...i am familiar with monumenta serica. i think fr. baumgartner used to work under that center during the Fu Jen years in Beijing (pre-1949). i will PM you the concept paper now.

any help will do....importante jud ang tabang sa mga SVDs abroad ani.

good luck on your dissertation.

gi-pm na nako akong email ... it was fr. rahmann ... he was the editor of the journal monumenta serica when he was in beijing ... here's our website to give an idea about our work: http://www.monumenta-serica.de/

@archaeologue

how about the so-an dept sa usc? naa pa bay svd nagtudlo sa so-an dept? as far as i know naay duha nag-eskwela ug anthro sa up, pero morag wala pa nahuman ... maayo unta og naay svd sa so-an para malink ang dept sa anthropos international - usa ni ka network sa mga svd anthropologist/sociologists/ethnologists worldwide - anthropos was the journal started by wilhelm schmidt ... it developed into an instititute publishing journals and monographs ... then in 2003 it was restructured under the direction of a coordinator ... the present coordinator is an american, roger schroeder ... sa pilipinas, morag si antoon postma ray sakop, pero honorary member ra iyang status ... at present there are 42 members working in these svd institutes:

Anthropos Institute Sankt Augustin, Germany
Institute of Indian Culture, Mumbai, India
Sanskriti: Centre for Applied Cultural Research, Indore, India
Melanesian Institute, Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Tamale Institute of Cross-Cultural Studies, Tamale, Ghana
Cadraditya: Research Centre for the Study of Religion and Culture, Flores, Indonesia
Aditya Wacana: Center for Studies of Religion and Culture, Malang, Indonesia
Nanzan Institute of Religion and Culture, Nanzan, Japan

sayang kung ang so-an dept dili malink kay sila ni fr. rahmann, goertz mga miyembro baya to ... it would be reconnecting with its past / foundation / history ... sa mga pulong pa ni fr. miranda sa iyang installation:

The refounding of the University must begin at its most elemental units, such as the department, which needs to reconnect with the principles of its foundation. Reflection on the history of academic units reveals that none of them is ever straightforward but is a blend of mission and response to need, as well as of the accidents of personalities and resources ready to hand. Whatever the process, the department acquires an identity that is the product of its history, and a heritage that it can enrich only by bringing it forward and beyond. Revisioning is a sort of retrieval, a revisiting of the past in order to refresh the sense of what one’s essential nature always was. This reaching backward into the past is, in religious language, no more than a program of conversion.

@archaeologue

how about the so-an dept sa usc? naa pa bay svd nagtudlo sa so-an dept? as far as i know naay duha nag-eskwela ug anthro sa up, pero morag wala pa nahuman ... maayo unta og naay svd sa so-an para malink ang dept sa anthropos international - usa ni ka network sa mga svd anthropologist/sociologists/ethnologists worldwide - anthropos was the journal started by wilhelm schmidt ... it developed into an instititute publishing journals and monographs ... then in 2003 it was restructured under the direction of a coordinator ... the present coordinator is an american, roger schroeder ... sa pilipinas, morag si antoon postma ray sakop, pero honorary member ra iyang status ... at present there are 42 members working in these svd institutes:

Anthropos Institute Sankt Augustin, Germany
Institute of Indian Culture, Mumbai, India
Sanskriti: Centre for Applied Cultural Research, Indore, India
Melanesian Institute, Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Tamale Institute of Cross-Cultural Studies, Tamale, Ghana
Cadraditya: Research Centre for the Study of Religion and Culture, Flores, Indonesia
Aditya Wacana: Center for Studies of Religion and Culture, Malang, Indonesia
Nanzan Institute of Religion and Culture, Nanzan, Japan

sayang kung ang so-an dept dili malink kay sila ni fr. rahmann, goertz mga miyembro baya to ... it would be reconnecting with its past / foundation / history ... sa mga pulong pa ni fr. miranda sa iyang installation:

The refounding of the University must begin at its most elemental units, such as the department, which needs to reconnect with the principles of its foundation. Reflection on the history of academic units reveals that none of them is ever straightforward but is a blend of mission and response to need, as well as of the accidents of personalities and resources ready to hand. Whatever the process, the department acquires an identity that is the product of its history, and a heritage that it can enrich only by bringing it forward and beyond. Revisioning is a sort of retrieval, a revisiting of the past in order to refresh the sense of what one’s essential nature always was. This reaching backward into the past is, in religious language, no more than a program of conversion.

Sir Jo, I republished your article in my blog if you don't mind, hehe.. With your name in it of course..

Regarding the diggings in Pari-an during the construction of Castrillo's monument, I actually saw photos of the artifacts during the digging itself. The photos were published in Freeman or Sunstar I think, sa frontpage. What were dug were jars and some human bones.

Up to now I'm wondering as to where those artifacts are. I even thought before that there's a museum inside Castrillo's monument where the artifacts are kept/displayed.



...

Sir Jo, I republished your article in my blog if you don't mind, hehe.. With your name in it of course..

Regarding the diggings in Pari-an during the construction of Castrillo's monument, I actually saw photos of the artifacts during the digging itself. The photos were published in Freeman or Sunstar I think, sa frontpage. What were dug were jars and some human bones.

Up to now I'm wondering as to where those artifacts are. I even thought before that there's a museum inside Castrillo's monument where the artifacts are kept/displayed.



...

kinsa manag collector og plato oi? hehe initials nalang beh..

kinsa manag collector og plato oi? hehe initials nalang beh..

Ayaw lang oi, kay mosikat unya ang heritage worker/collector ug plato

Ayaw lang oi, kay mosikat unya ang heritage worker/collector ug plato

dp

dp

^^

Naa baya pod koy collection nga mga plato dinhi, pero kana bitaw mga plato nga ginama sa Visayan Glass Factory unya ipanglabay na unta sa akong maguwang pero ako gipangayo ug gidala sa kwarto. Basin diay ma antique pa ni after 100 years. :lol:

^^

Naa baya pod koy collection nga mga plato dinhi, pero kana bitaw mga plato nga ginama sa Visayan Glass Factory unya ipanglabay na unta sa akong maguwang pero ako gipangayo ug gidala sa kwarto. Basin diay ma antique pa ni after 100 years. :lol:

@archaeologue

how about the so-an dept sa usc? naa pa bay svd nagtudlo sa so-an dept? as far as i know naay duha nag-eskwela ug anthro sa up, pero morag wala pa nahuman ... maayo unta og naay svd sa so-an para malink ang dept sa anthropos international - usa ni ka network sa mga svd anthropologist/sociologists/ethnologists worldwide - anthropos was the journal started by wilhelm schmidt ... it developed into an instititute publishing journals and monographs ... then in 2003 it was restructured under the direction of a coordinator ... the present coordinator is an american, roger schroeder ... sa pilipinas, morag si antoon postma ray sakop, pero honorary member ra iyang status ... at present there are 42 members working in these svd institutes:

Anthropos Institute Sankt Augustin, Germany
Institute of Indian Culture, Mumbai, India
Sanskriti: Centre for Applied Cultural Research, Indore, India
Melanesian Institute, Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Tamale Institute of Cross-Cultural Studies, Tamale, Ghana
Cadraditya: Research Centre for the Study of Religion and Culture, Flores, Indonesia
Aditya Wacana: Center for Studies of Religion and Culture, Malang, Indonesia
Nanzan Institute of Religion and Culture, Nanzan, Japan

sayang kung ang so-an dept dili malink kay sila ni fr. rahmann, goertz mga miyembro baya to ... it would be reconnecting with its past / foundation / history ... sa mga pulong pa ni fr. miranda sa iyang installation:

The refounding of the University must begin at its most elemental units, such as the department, which needs to reconnect with the principles of its foundation. Reflection on the history of academic units reveals that none of them is ever straightforward but is a blend of mission and response to need, as well as of the accidents of personalities and resources ready to hand. Whatever the process, the department acquires an identity that is the product of its history, and a heritage that it can enrich only by bringing it forward and beyond. Revisioning is a sort of retrieval, a revisiting of the past in order to refresh the sense of what one’s essential nature always was. This reaching backward into the past is, in religious language, no more than a program of conversion.


i am head of soan, i've been heading it since 2001. i plan to end my term next year. wala nay svd sa soan.

we are all familiar with anthropos. in fact sige pa mig receive ug latest issues. it is mentioned in my book "Visual Fragments: The Rahmann-Maceda Photographic Collection, 1954-64" which soan launched last summer.

sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt.

i am quite familiar with the german side of the SVds since i studied in germany (but never finished my dissertation on the sociology of development).

in fact i visited two SVD offices, the one in Sankt Agustin-bei-Bonn and St. Michaels in Holland (very close to---and once part of---the Germany border).

sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...kasagaran man gud pod nga mga nadestino sa usc nga mga SVD anthropologists nga puti nangaminyo man gud.

lisud man gud pod ang religious education (ReEd) at usc. it's very conservative. the faculty is mostly old, unmarried women (or effeminate men). Save for about one or two who are progressives, the rest appear so self-righteous as to isolate themselves from the entire carolinian student population. in the words of one department chair, mura daw og culto within usc na sila hahahahaah!!!

paet.

@archaeologue

how about the so-an dept sa usc? naa pa bay svd nagtudlo sa so-an dept? as far as i know naay duha nag-eskwela ug anthro sa up, pero morag wala pa nahuman ... maayo unta og naay svd sa so-an para malink ang dept sa anthropos international - usa ni ka network sa mga svd anthropologist/sociologists/ethnologists worldwide - anthropos was the journal started by wilhelm schmidt ... it developed into an instititute publishing journals and monographs ... then in 2003 it was restructured under the direction of a coordinator ... the present coordinator is an american, roger schroeder ... sa pilipinas, morag si antoon postma ray sakop, pero honorary member ra iyang status ... at present there are 42 members working in these svd institutes:

Anthropos Institute Sankt Augustin, Germany
Institute of Indian Culture, Mumbai, India
Sanskriti: Centre for Applied Cultural Research, Indore, India
Melanesian Institute, Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Tamale Institute of Cross-Cultural Studies, Tamale, Ghana
Cadraditya: Research Centre for the Study of Religion and Culture, Flores, Indonesia
Aditya Wacana: Center for Studies of Religion and Culture, Malang, Indonesia
Nanzan Institute of Religion and Culture, Nanzan, Japan

sayang kung ang so-an dept dili malink kay sila ni fr. rahmann, goertz mga miyembro baya to ... it would be reconnecting with its past / foundation / history ... sa mga pulong pa ni fr. miranda sa iyang installation:

The refounding of the University must begin at its most elemental units, such as the department, which needs to reconnect with the principles of its foundation. Reflection on the history of academic units reveals that none of them is ever straightforward but is a blend of mission and response to need, as well as of the accidents of personalities and resources ready to hand. Whatever the process, the department acquires an identity that is the product of its history, and a heritage that it can enrich only by bringing it forward and beyond. Revisioning is a sort of retrieval, a revisiting of the past in order to refresh the sense of what one’s essential nature always was. This reaching backward into the past is, in religious language, no more than a program of conversion.


i am head of soan, i've been heading it since 2001. i plan to end my term next year. wala nay svd sa soan.

we are all familiar with anthropos. in fact sige pa mig receive ug latest issues. it is mentioned in my book "Visual Fragments: The Rahmann-Maceda Photographic Collection, 1954-64" which soan launched last summer.

sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt.

i am quite familiar with the german side of the SVds since i studied in germany (but never finished my dissertation on the sociology of development).

in fact i visited two SVD offices, the one in Sankt Agustin-bei-Bonn and St. Michaels in Holland (very close to---and once part of---the Germany border).

sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...kasagaran man gud pod nga mga nadestino sa usc nga mga SVD anthropologists nga puti nangaminyo man gud.

lisud man gud pod ang religious education (ReEd) at usc. it's very conservative. the faculty is mostly old, unmarried women (or effeminate men). Save for about one or two who are progressives, the rest appear so self-righteous as to isolate themselves from the entire carolinian student population. in the words of one department chair, mura daw og culto within usc na sila hahahahaah!!!

paet.

dp

don pepot?
deo plaza?
wahaha...

i have no idea.

paet.

:bash:

PM me ana beh...pleaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeee...

dp

don pepot?
deo plaza?
wahaha...

i have no idea.

paet.

:bash:

PM me ana beh...pleaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeee...

^^

Anyway, why is there a new asphalted road at the middle of Plaza Independencia? Is it just temporary since the original road leading to the Fort San Pedro was closed off for the construction of the tunnel at the S. Osmeña Avenue portion?

I hope it's just a temporary road because I think it does not look good having that road there in the middle.


Also, what can you say @archaeologue about the 1699 map of Cebu which says that the old cathedral was once located at the vicinity of Plaza Armas?

I was really a bit amazed about this because it seems like the location of our present cathedral did not follow the "law of the indies" with regards to the location of Plaza Independencia and the Casa Gobiernos.



..

^^

Anyway, why is there a new asphalted road at the middle of Plaza Independencia? Is it just temporary since the original road leading to the Fort San Pedro was closed off for the construction of the tunnel at the S. Osmeña Avenue portion?

I hope it's just a temporary road because I think it does not look good having that road there in the middle.


Also, what can you say @archaeologue about the 1699 map of Cebu which says that the old cathedral was once located at the vicinity of Plaza Armas?

I was really a bit amazed about this because it seems like the location of our present cathedral did not follow the "law of the indies" with regards to the location of Plaza Independencia and the Casa Gobiernos.



..

Sir Jo, I republished your article in my blog if you don't mind, hehe.. With your name in it of course..

Anyway, I texted Dale about this collector.. Kabalo nako kinsa.

Regarding the diggings in Pari-an during the construction of Castrillo's monument, I actually saw photos of the artifacts during the digging itself. The photos were published in Freeman or Sunstar I think, sa frontpage. What were dug were jars and some human bones.

Up to now I'm wondering as to where those artifacts are. I even thought before that there's a museum inside Castrillo's monument where the artifacts are kept/displayed.







...

wow ha. ingon ana ka kuyaw ang artifacts nga nakuha ha. and grabe ka-brazen nga wa jud ta kahibaw asa na karon. paet.


by the way, thanks arnold carl. i take your posting of my column articvle as a compliment.

here is another self-serving thread...the latest one at the inquirer website posted this afternoon:


Past Forward
Swift action on the Plaza Independencia lootings
By Jobers Bersales
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 12:41:00 09/25/2008


I was pleasantly surprised by the swift and positive outcome of my column (and my calls to the National Museum) last week regarding the looting of artifacts at Plaza Independencia. The National Museum (NM) immediately sent a team, led by its assistant director, Noel Cuevas, to meet with Vice Mayor Mike Rama, as well as the management of the subway project at the plaza, to check the reports.

Last Tuesday, Angel Bautista, officer-in-charge of the NM Cultural Properties Division, came over to Cebu to hand in official deputization papers to me and Malou Samson, curator of the University of San Carlos’ University Museum, authorizing us to monitor all excavation activities not just in the plaza but all over the province of Cebu. It was also timely that the monthly meeting of the Metro Cebu Development Project (MCDP) was held that same day so that we were able to attend, together with Mr. Bautista. We were briefed with the efforts of Kajima Corporation, the Japanese contractor for the project, to investigate, confiscate and apprehend the culprits behind the looting of artifacts.

More surprises came as we read the minutes of the previous month’s meeting, where among the issues tackled was, in fact, the illegal removal and selling of artifacts by some workers who were caught by security guards. Apparently, the Criminal Intelligence and Investigation Bureau (CIIB) has already been requested to conduct an investigation on the matter. We were also presented with reports they submitted of the artifacts recovered on the site, coupled with photographs. These artifacts were then submitted to Edrick Miano, the curator at the NM branch in nearby Fort San Pedro.

Just how much has slipped through the security cordon set up by Kajima is difficult to ascertain, pending the CIIB investigations. But I must commend the Japanese project management team, led by engineer I. Maeda, for taking the time to ensure that archaeological evidences that were photographed and recorded on site before these were removed and packed.

That no gold has been retrieved on record is intriguing, especially when compared to the gold jewelry we recovered in Boljoon. The Magellan and Legazpi expeditions mentioned the presence of much gold worn by the natives in the port of Cebu. Yet, we are not finding any in controlled excavations in the downtown area. Does this mean that unscrupulous collectors have already “cut us to the chase” and forever pillaged the evidence? Or is this absence a proof that the port of Cebu was more hype than reality?

A training session for engineers and construction personnel will be conducted very soon at the site so that protocols for the recovery of more archaeological evidence will be carefully observed. One-third of the plaza is due for excavation and it would be great to see what surprises await the world of heritage and archaeology.



:banana:

Sir Jo, I republished your article in my blog if you don't mind, hehe.. With your name in it of course..

Anyway, I texted Dale about this collector.. Kabalo nako kinsa.

Regarding the diggings in Pari-an during the construction of Castrillo's monument, I actually saw photos of the artifacts during the digging itself. The photos were published in Freeman or Sunstar I think, sa frontpage. What were dug were jars and some human bones.

Up to now I'm wondering as to where those artifacts are. I even thought before that there's a museum inside Castrillo's monument where the artifacts are kept/displayed.







...

wow ha. ingon ana ka kuyaw ang artifacts nga nakuha ha. and grabe ka-brazen nga wa jud ta kahibaw asa na karon. paet.


by the way, thanks arnold carl. i take your posting of my column articvle as a compliment.

here is another self-serving thread...the latest one at the inquirer website posted this afternoon:


Past Forward
Swift action on the Plaza Independencia lootings
By Jobers Bersales
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 12:41:00 09/25/2008


I was pleasantly surprised by the swift and positive outcome of my column (and my calls to the National Museum) last week regarding the looting of artifacts at Plaza Independencia. The National Museum (NM) immediately sent a team, led by its assistant director, Noel Cuevas, to meet with Vice Mayor Mike Rama, as well as the management of the subway project at the plaza, to check the reports.

Last Tuesday, Angel Bautista, officer-in-charge of the NM Cultural Properties Division, came over to Cebu to hand in official deputization papers to me and Malou Samson, curator of the University of San Carlos’ University Museum, authorizing us to monitor all excavation activities not just in the plaza but all over the province of Cebu. It was also timely that the monthly meeting of the Metro Cebu Development Project (MCDP) was held that same day so that we were able to attend, together with Mr. Bautista. We were briefed with the efforts of Kajima Corporation, the Japanese contractor for the project, to investigate, confiscate and apprehend the culprits behind the looting of artifacts.

More surprises came as we read the minutes of the previous month’s meeting, where among the issues tackled was, in fact, the illegal removal and selling of artifacts by some workers who were caught by security guards. Apparently, the Criminal Intelligence and Investigation Bureau (CIIB) has already been requested to conduct an investigation on the matter. We were also presented with reports they submitted of the artifacts recovered on the site, coupled with photographs. These artifacts were then submitted to Edrick Miano, the curator at the NM branch in nearby Fort San Pedro.

Just how much has slipped through the security cordon set up by Kajima is difficult to ascertain, pending the CIIB investigations. But I must commend the Japanese project management team, led by engineer I. Maeda, for taking the time to ensure that archaeological evidences that were photographed and recorded on site before these were removed and packed.

That no gold has been retrieved on record is intriguing, especially when compared to the gold jewelry we recovered in Boljoon. The Magellan and Legazpi expeditions mentioned the presence of much gold worn by the natives in the port of Cebu. Yet, we are not finding any in controlled excavations in the downtown area. Does this mean that unscrupulous collectors have already “cut us to the chase” and forever pillaged the evidence? Or is this absence a proof that the port of Cebu was more hype than reality?

A training session for engineers and construction personnel will be conducted very soon at the site so that protocols for the recovery of more archaeological evidence will be carefully observed. One-third of the plaza is due for excavation and it would be great to see what surprises await the world of heritage and archaeology.



:banana:

^^

Anyway, why is there a new asphalted road at the middle of Plaza Independencia? Is it just temporary since the original road leading to the Fort San Pedro was closed off for the construction of the tunnel at the S. Osmeña Avenue portion?

I hope it's just a temporary road because I think it does not look good having that road there in the middle.


yes, temporary ra na. under the protocols established by MCDP with cebu city parks and playgrounds, the plaza will be restored to what it looked like before the subway excavations.





Also, what can you say @archaeologue about the 1699 map of Cebu which says that the old cathedral was once located at the vicinity of Plaza Armas?

I was really a bit amazed about this because it seems like the location of our present cathedral did not follow the "law of the indies" with regards to the location of Plaza Independencia and the Casa Gobiernos.


..



Two possibilities:

1. The Plaza Mayor was huge, stretching from the current Plaza Independencia down to present-day Patria de Cebu.

2. The Patria de Cebu (or the World War II-bombed Arzobispado) may have been the site of the 1600s Casa Tribunal (I'm not sure if Casa de gobierno is the right term, though).

Remember, the Catholic church appears to have been---for a very, very long time---the only Spanish secular and ecclesiastical presence in Cebu (probably up to the late 1700s). This means, it never really mattered if the casa real or tribunal was standing on church property.

^^

Anyway, why is there a new asphalted road at the middle of Plaza Independencia? Is it just temporary since the original road leading to the Fort San Pedro was closed off for the construction of the tunnel at the S. Osmeña Avenue portion?

I hope it's just a temporary road because I think it does not look good having that road there in the middle.


yes, temporary ra na. under the protocols established by MCDP with cebu city parks and playgrounds, the plaza will be restored to what it looked like before the subway excavations.





Also, what can you say @archaeologue about the 1699 map of Cebu which says that the old cathedral was once located at the vicinity of Plaza Armas?

I was really a bit amazed about this because it seems like the location of our present cathedral did not follow the "law of the indies" with regards to the location of Plaza Independencia and the Casa Gobiernos.


..



Two possibilities:

1. The Plaza Mayor was huge, stretching from the current Plaza Independencia down to present-day Patria de Cebu.

2. The Patria de Cebu (or the World War II-bombed Arzobispado) may have been the site of the 1600s Casa Tribunal (I'm not sure if Casa de gobierno is the right term, though).

Remember, the Catholic church appears to have been---for a very, very long time---the only Spanish secular and ecclesiastical presence in Cebu (probably up to the late 1700s). This means, it never really mattered if the casa real or tribunal was standing on church property.

i am head of soan, i've been heading it since 2001. i plan to end my term next year. wala nay svd sa soan.

we are all familiar with anthropos. in fact sige pa mig receive ug latest issues. it is mentioned in my book "Visual Fragments: The Rahmann-Maceda Photographic Collection, 1954-64" which soan launched last summer.

sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt.

i am quite familiar with the german side of the SVds since i studied in germany (but never finished my dissertation on the sociology of development).

in fact i visited two SVD offices, the one in Sankt Agustin-bei-Bonn and St. Michaels in Holland (very close to---and once part of---the Germany border).

sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...kasagaran man gud pod nga mga nadestino sa usc nga mga SVD anthropologists nga puti nangaminyo man gud.

lisud man gud pod ang religious education (ReEd) at usc. it's very conservative. the faculty is mostly old, unmarried women (or effeminate men). Save for about one or two who are progressives, the rest appear so self-righteous as to isolate themselves from the entire carolinian student population. in the words of one department chair, mura daw og culto within usc na sila hahahahaah!!!

paet.

usa sa problema sa pilipinas, kay gamay ra man sa mga pari gusto motudlo ... sa usc morag mas daghan man tingali ang administrators kay sa instructors/professors ... siyempre mas hayahay sa opisina, naa pay secretary .... sa reed dept, naa pa diay si adoracion, si esperidion ug uban pa ... hehehe

i am head of soan, i've been heading it since 2001. i plan to end my term next year. wala nay svd sa soan.

we are all familiar with anthropos. in fact sige pa mig receive ug latest issues. it is mentioned in my book "Visual Fragments: The Rahmann-Maceda Photographic Collection, 1954-64" which soan launched last summer.

sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt.

i am quite familiar with the german side of the SVds since i studied in germany (but never finished my dissertation on the sociology of development).

in fact i visited two SVD offices, the one in Sankt Agustin-bei-Bonn and St. Michaels in Holland (very close to---and once part of---the Germany border).

sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...kasagaran man gud pod nga mga nadestino sa usc nga mga SVD anthropologists nga puti nangaminyo man gud.

lisud man gud pod ang religious education (ReEd) at usc. it's very conservative. the faculty is mostly old, unmarried women (or effeminate men). Save for about one or two who are progressives, the rest appear so self-righteous as to isolate themselves from the entire carolinian student population. in the words of one department chair, mura daw og culto within usc na sila hahahahaah!!!

paet.

usa sa problema sa pilipinas, kay gamay ra man sa mga pari gusto motudlo ... sa usc morag mas daghan man tingali ang administrators kay sa instructors/professors ... siyempre mas hayahay sa opisina, naa pay secretary .... sa reed dept, naa pa diay si adoracion, si esperidion ug uban pa ... hehehe

hehehehe .... nisikat naman ning atong thread oy!


Wenceslao: P.S. to ‘Artifacts and a tunnel’
By Bong O. Wenceslao
Candid Thoughts

MY column yesterday about artifacts dug up at the Plaza Independencia area where a tunnel connecting to the Cebu South Coastal Road is being built generated a reaction from Sun.Star’s Jun Velez, who immediately called me up when he checked the opinion pages before these were printed. He told me to google “Cebu Heritage Walk.”

My article, “Artifacts and a tunnel,” was based on a Sun.Star report. Little did I know that Jojo Bersales already wrote something about it in his own column at the Cebu Daily News a week or so ago. Jobers, who presided over the recent archaeological dig in Boljoon town, was as frustrated as the other posters to the Cebu Heritage Walk thread.

The thread claimed that as early as three months ago, Kajima Construction Corp., which is building the tunnel, was already seeking advice on what to do with the artifacts that they unearthed “all over the place.” On the first month of the digging, Bersales met with City Hall Administrator Bimbo Fernandez to talk about monitoring the tunnel work.

Obviously, nothing much happened from that effort because no monitoring of the digging happened. Bersales said that he finally received deputization from the National Museum only recently, when digging at the Plaza is more than half way. Only the National Museum has the power to monitor construction sites to protect heritage areas.

What I understand from Jobers “rant” is that some government agencies, national and local (those under Cebu City Hall), just didn’t find any urgency or need to intervene. The inaction of National Museum people is condemnable. As for City Hall, perhaps heritage seminars are needed or the right people chosen to head historical affairs sections.

What should be enlightening are the points Bersales raised, like the fact that in other countries archaeologists working in universities can intervene any time there is an ongoing construction work. Because of this, I agree with Jobers’ proposal about amending laws like PD 374(on cultural properties), RA 4868 (on the National Museum).

I am mentioning this because of my experience years ago when I was a reporter of The Freeman and the Heritage Monument at the Pari-an was still being sculpted by Eduardo Castrillo. I received a tip that digging for the monument’s base resulted in the unearthing of artifacts. I went to the fenced off site and found shards of porcelain there.

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.

Looking back, I now think that incident was symbolic of our attitude when it comes to our heritage. We still have a long way to go in making people realize the importance of sifting through our past in a systematic and scientific manner.

(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)

hehehehe .... nisikat naman ning atong thread oy!


Wenceslao: P.S. to ‘Artifacts and a tunnel’
By Bong O. Wenceslao
Candid Thoughts

MY column yesterday about artifacts dug up at the Plaza Independencia area where a tunnel connecting to the Cebu South Coastal Road is being built generated a reaction from Sun.Star’s Jun Velez, who immediately called me up when he checked the opinion pages before these were printed. He told me to google “Cebu Heritage Walk.”

My article, “Artifacts and a tunnel,” was based on a Sun.Star report. Little did I know that Jojo Bersales already wrote something about it in his own column at the Cebu Daily News a week or so ago. Jobers, who presided over the recent archaeological dig in Boljoon town, was as frustrated as the other posters to the Cebu Heritage Walk thread.

The thread claimed that as early as three months ago, Kajima Construction Corp., which is building the tunnel, was already seeking advice on what to do with the artifacts that they unearthed “all over the place.” On the first month of the digging, Bersales met with City Hall Administrator Bimbo Fernandez to talk about monitoring the tunnel work.

Obviously, nothing much happened from that effort because no monitoring of the digging happened. Bersales said that he finally received deputization from the National Museum only recently, when digging at the Plaza is more than half way. Only the National Museum has the power to monitor construction sites to protect heritage areas.

What I understand from Jobers “rant” is that some government agencies, national and local (those under Cebu City Hall), just didn’t find any urgency or need to intervene. The inaction of National Museum people is condemnable. As for City Hall, perhaps heritage seminars are needed or the right people chosen to head historical affairs sections.

What should be enlightening are the points Bersales raised, like the fact that in other countries archaeologists working in universities can intervene any time there is an ongoing construction work. Because of this, I agree with Jobers’ proposal about amending laws like PD 374(on cultural properties), RA 4868 (on the National Museum).

I am mentioning this because of my experience years ago when I was a reporter of The Freeman and the Heritage Monument at the Pari-an was still being sculpted by Eduardo Castrillo. I received a tip that digging for the monument’s base resulted in the unearthing of artifacts. I went to the fenced off site and found shards of porcelain there.

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.

Looking back, I now think that incident was symbolic of our attitude when it comes to our heritage. We still have a long way to go in making people realize the importance of sifting through our past in a systematic and scientific manner.

(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)

A “taytayan” from the past to the future!
SHOOTING STRAIGHT By Valerianoa Avila
Friday, September 26, 2008

Last Wednesday afternoon, I took a break from the hectic Press Freedom Week activities to attend the official launching of “Taytayan” (Bridge in Cebuano) a Heritage Advocacy group that aims to preserve what we can from our past in order to bridge the gap of the Cebuanos of tomorrow who have little or no knowledge of Cebu’s rich cultural heritage and history. The official launching of Taytayan was done at the Yap-Sandiego Ancestral House, which I consider the oldest house in the Province of Cebu. It may arguably be the oldest house in the Philippines.

This well-preserved antique house is situated in Cebu’s famous Parian District, just a stone’s throw from the old “Bomberohan” and the famous Casa Gorordo across the Ramon Aboitiz Foundation, Inc. headquarters. I support this group because of my love of history. More so that I too grew up in Parian in the old Avila home in Ibarra, which my parents built from the remnants of the Segura Ancestral house which was burned at the start of World War II.

The Taytayan group is led by Cebu’s foremost Dance Maestro Val Sandiego, Gil Maningo of “Kulas” Shirts, Balbino Guerrero or Tatay Bino, Jose “Chilet” Hermosa of Parian, Gavin Bagares, also a founding member of the Kaguikan sa Parian Foundation, Inc., Mr. Paul Melendez who composed the “Mabuhi Ka Sugbuanon” and Joy Uy of Continental Airlines who also resides in my old street in Ibarra.

For its debut Taytayan will hold an October Festival (it is an affront for us Cebuanos to hold an Oktoberfest when we are not of German descent!) starting with a night-heritage market on Oct.6. On Oct.11, there will be a dinner show featuring “Parian Kagahapon ug Karon” (Parian, yesterday and today) with his eminence Ricardo Cardinal Vidal and Tourism Secretary Ace Durano in attendance. Time to time, I will be featuring stories about Parian of the past, like how the most beautiful Church in Cebu was destroyed, thanks to a dispute between church leaders.

http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Opinion&p=52&type=2&sec=72&aid=20080925214

A “taytayan” from the past to the future!
SHOOTING STRAIGHT By Valerianoa Avila
Friday, September 26, 2008

Last Wednesday afternoon, I took a break from the hectic Press Freedom Week activities to attend the official launching of “Taytayan” (Bridge in Cebuano) a Heritage Advocacy group that aims to preserve what we can from our past in order to bridge the gap of the Cebuanos of tomorrow who have little or no knowledge of Cebu’s rich cultural heritage and history. The official launching of Taytayan was done at the Yap-Sandiego Ancestral House, which I consider the oldest house in the Province of Cebu. It may arguably be the oldest house in the Philippines.

This well-preserved antique house is situated in Cebu’s famous Parian District, just a stone’s throw from the old “Bomberohan” and the famous Casa Gorordo across the Ramon Aboitiz Foundation, Inc. headquarters. I support this group because of my love of history. More so that I too grew up in Parian in the old Avila home in Ibarra, which my parents built from the remnants of the Segura Ancestral house which was burned at the start of World War II.

The Taytayan group is led by Cebu’s foremost Dance Maestro Val Sandiego, Gil Maningo of “Kulas” Shirts, Balbino Guerrero or Tatay Bino, Jose “Chilet” Hermosa of Parian, Gavin Bagares, also a founding member of the Kaguikan sa Parian Foundation, Inc., Mr. Paul Melendez who composed the “Mabuhi Ka Sugbuanon” and Joy Uy of Continental Airlines who also resides in my old street in Ibarra.

For its debut Taytayan will hold an October Festival (it is an affront for us Cebuanos to hold an Oktoberfest when we are not of German descent!) starting with a night-heritage market on Oct.6. On Oct.11, there will be a dinner show featuring “Parian Kagahapon ug Karon” (Parian, yesterday and today) with his eminence Ricardo Cardinal Vidal and Tourism Secretary Ace Durano in attendance. Time to time, I will be featuring stories about Parian of the past, like how the most beautiful Church in Cebu was destroyed, thanks to a dispute between church leaders.

http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Opinion&p=52&type=2&sec=72&aid=20080925214

.... wala nay svd sa soan.

...sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt...

...sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...


BITAW NOH... SAYANG JUD ANG LEGACY PERO DALI RA NA MASULBAD!

SEGURO JUD KO NGA WELCOME KA SA SVD..... he he he (joke ra ni ha)

.... wala nay svd sa soan.

...sayang kay wala na juy SVD anthropologist at USC. it has a long, long , long history of engagement with anthropology...in fact the very roots of the SVD were mostly in anthropology because of anthropos institut and wilhelm schmidt...

...sayang gyud nga wala matiwas ang SVD legacy in anthropology sa usc...


BITAW NOH... SAYANG JUD ANG LEGACY PERO DALI RA NA MASULBAD!

SEGURO JUD KO NGA WELCOME KA SA SVD..... he he he (joke ra ni ha)

kinsa manag collector og plato oi? hehe initials nalang beh..

HAAAAY ..... nia na pod ning storya sa plato. every now and then
mogawas jud ug iyaha sa thread. Mura ra ba ug gamiton nga
butangan sa sud-an.

kinsa manag collector og plato oi? hehe initials nalang beh..

HAAAAY ..... nia na pod ning storya sa plato. every now and then
mogawas jud ug iyaha sa thread. Mura ra ba ug gamiton nga
butangan sa sud-an.

hehehehe .... nisikat naman ning atong thread oy!


Wenceslao: P.S. to ‘Artifacts and a tunnel’
By Bong O. Wenceslao
Candid Thoughts

MY column yesterday about artifacts dug up at the Plaza Independencia area where a tunnel connecting to the Cebu South Coastal Road is being built generated a reaction from Sun.Star’s Jun Velez, who immediately called me up when he checked the opinion pages before these were printed. He told me to google “Cebu Heritage Walk.”

My article, “Artifacts and a tunnel,” was based on a Sun.Star report. Little did I know that Jojo Bersales already wrote something about it in his own column at the Cebu Daily News a week or so ago. Jobers, who presided over the recent archaeological dig in Boljoon town, was as frustrated as the other posters to the Cebu Heritage Walk thread.

The thread claimed that as early as three months ago, Kajima Construction Corp., which is building the tunnel, was already seeking advice on what to do with the artifacts that they unearthed “all over the place.” On the first month of the digging, Bersales met with City Hall Administrator Bimbo Fernandez to talk about monitoring the tunnel work.

Obviously, nothing much happened from that effort because no monitoring of the digging happened. Bersales said that he finally received deputization from the National Museum only recently, when digging at the Plaza is more than half way. Only the National Museum has the power to monitor construction sites to protect heritage areas.

What I understand from Jobers “rant” is that some government agencies, national and local (those under Cebu City Hall), just didn’t find any urgency or need to intervene. The inaction of National Museum people is condemnable. As for City Hall, perhaps heritage seminars are needed or the right people chosen to head historical affairs sections.

What should be enlightening are the points Bersales raised, like the fact that in other countries archaeologists working in universities can intervene any time there is an ongoing construction work. Because of this, I agree with Jobers’ proposal about amending laws like PD 374(on cultural properties), RA 4868 (on the National Museum).

I am mentioning this because of my experience years ago when I was a reporter of The Freeman and the Heritage Monument at the Pari-an was still being sculpted by Eduardo Castrillo. I received a tip that digging for the monument’s base resulted in the unearthing of artifacts. I went to the fenced off site and found shards of porcelain there.

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.

Looking back, I now think that incident was symbolic of our attitude when it comes to our heritage. We still have a long way to go in making people realize the importance of sifting through our past in a systematic and scientific manner.

(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)



I hope Parianon will thank bong for me...or maybe i should email him. this should hopefully start some kind of debate on what is really going on in archaeology.

i actually presented a paper on the same theme of a highly-centralized and highly-regulated national museum and the difficulties of doing archaeology in the country during the 6th National Social Science Congress in Manila last May. wa may effect! lol...


but now, i'm really in hot water hahahah...but nothing that is indefensible, right?

the NM people are friends of mine...really close friends and they do a hell of a good job at archaeology. they are just following the law that centralizes all archaeology to them. so i do not blame them at all.

which is why i can work with them...


as for CHAC, ambot lang ana nila. basin naninguha pod sila pero wa man tay nakita.

after all, what we are saying here is aboslutely straight from the bottom of our hearts, as it were.

we're all in this together...as in the "High School Musical" theme song.

hehehehe .... nisikat naman ning atong thread oy!


Wenceslao: P.S. to ‘Artifacts and a tunnel’
By Bong O. Wenceslao
Candid Thoughts

MY column yesterday about artifacts dug up at the Plaza Independencia area where a tunnel connecting to the Cebu South Coastal Road is being built generated a reaction from Sun.Star’s Jun Velez, who immediately called me up when he checked the opinion pages before these were printed. He told me to google “Cebu Heritage Walk.”

My article, “Artifacts and a tunnel,” was based on a Sun.Star report. Little did I know that Jojo Bersales already wrote something about it in his own column at the Cebu Daily News a week or so ago. Jobers, who presided over the recent archaeological dig in Boljoon town, was as frustrated as the other posters to the Cebu Heritage Walk thread.

The thread claimed that as early as three months ago, Kajima Construction Corp., which is building the tunnel, was already seeking advice on what to do with the artifacts that they unearthed “all over the place.” On the first month of the digging, Bersales met with City Hall Administrator Bimbo Fernandez to talk about monitoring the tunnel work.

Obviously, nothing much happened from that effort because no monitoring of the digging happened. Bersales said that he finally received deputization from the National Museum only recently, when digging at the Plaza is more than half way. Only the National Museum has the power to monitor construction sites to protect heritage areas.

What I understand from Jobers “rant” is that some government agencies, national and local (those under Cebu City Hall), just didn’t find any urgency or need to intervene. The inaction of National Museum people is condemnable. As for City Hall, perhaps heritage seminars are needed or the right people chosen to head historical affairs sections.

What should be enlightening are the points Bersales raised, like the fact that in other countries archaeologists working in universities can intervene any time there is an ongoing construction work. Because of this, I agree with Jobers’ proposal about amending laws like PD 374(on cultural properties), RA 4868 (on the National Museum).

I am mentioning this because of my experience years ago when I was a reporter of The Freeman and the Heritage Monument at the Pari-an was still being sculpted by Eduardo Castrillo. I received a tip that digging for the monument’s base resulted in the unearthing of artifacts. I went to the fenced off site and found shards of porcelain there.

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.

Looking back, I now think that incident was symbolic of our attitude when it comes to our heritage. We still have a long way to go in making people realize the importance of sifting through our past in a systematic and scientific manner.

(khanwens@yahoo.com/ my blog: cebuano.wordpress.com)



I hope Parianon will thank bong for me...or maybe i should email him. this should hopefully start some kind of debate on what is really going on in archaeology.

i actually presented a paper on the same theme of a highly-centralized and highly-regulated national museum and the difficulties of doing archaeology in the country during the 6th National Social Science Congress in Manila last May. wa may effect! lol...


but now, i'm really in hot water hahahah...but nothing that is indefensible, right?

the NM people are friends of mine...really close friends and they do a hell of a good job at archaeology. they are just following the law that centralizes all archaeology to them. so i do not blame them at all.

which is why i can work with them...


as for CHAC, ambot lang ana nila. basin naninguha pod sila pero wa man tay nakita.

after all, what we are saying here is aboslutely straight from the bottom of our hearts, as it were.

we're all in this together...as in the "High School Musical" theme song.

BITAW NOH... SAYANG JUD ANG LEGACY PERO DALI RA NA MASULBAD!

SEGURO JUD KO NGA WELCOME KA SA SVD..... he he he (joke ra ni ha)



i once entered the formation program sa SVD...but alas i was called elsewhere.

now i hear those calls to go back (some from SVDs themselves) once in a while but i'm too dumb to react hahahaahahah....:bash:

BITAW NOH... SAYANG JUD ANG LEGACY PERO DALI RA NA MASULBAD!

SEGURO JUD KO NGA WELCOME KA SA SVD..... he he he (joke ra ni ha)



i once entered the formation program sa SVD...but alas i was called elsewhere.

now i hear those calls to go back (some from SVDs themselves) once in a while but i'm too dumb to react hahahaahahah....:bash:

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.




Castrillo should have been brought to court by NM and asked to explain his inaction on the matter. P.D. 374 is very precise on the penalty provisions and on what to do with people who disregard cultural property.

At the same time, the brgy. captain of Parian at that time should also be included in the case, as well as the funders of the project, which would mean his eminence? oooopssss...

I'm sure if His Eminence knew about it, he would have acted in the lawful manner which was to stop the excavation and call NM.

I remember seeking out Castrillo where he was temporarily staying to ask him about the digging. He was uncooperative and talked about deadlines and the effect if work is stalled especially because funding was dependent on donors. I thought he was worried about intervention by concerned government agencies like the National Museum.

I filed my report, nevertheless, but no government functionary was concerned enough to react. I placed the broken porcelain inside my drawer as a “cherished” possession, then forgot about it and the issue altogether. When I transferred to Sun.Star, that memento got lost in the passing and probably ended up in the trash can.




Castrillo should have been brought to court by NM and asked to explain his inaction on the matter. P.D. 374 is very precise on the penalty provisions and on what to do with people who disregard cultural property.

At the same time, the brgy. captain of Parian at that time should also be included in the case, as well as the funders of the project, which would mean his eminence? oooopssss...

I'm sure if His Eminence knew about it, he would have acted in the lawful manner which was to stop the excavation and call NM.

the front yard of the cathedral would be a good spot for future archeological explorations as well as the BSN's courtyard (the former dagkutanan).. btw, when the pilgrim center of the basilica was built was there an intervention of the of the NM? one "insider" told me that when the expansion of CSN took place (and also a digging for a septic tank), it yielded some earthen wares, some are in their museum. if that was the case, much more the church front yard..

the front yard of the cathedral would be a good spot for future archeological explorations as well as the BSN's courtyard (the former dagkutanan).. btw, when the pilgrim center of the basilica was built was there an intervention of the of the NM? one "insider" told me that when the expansion of CSN took place (and also a digging for a septic tank), it yielded some earthen wares, some are in their museum. if that was the case, much more the church front yard..

A “taytayan” from the past to the future!
SHOOTING STRAIGHT By Valerianoa Avila
Friday, September 26, 2008

Last Wednesday afternoon, I took a break from the hectic Press Freedom Week activities to attend the official launching of “Taytayan” (Bridge in Cebuano) a Heritage Advocacy group that aims to preserve what we can from our past in order to bridge the gap of the Cebuanos of tomorrow who have little or no knowledge of Cebu’s rich cultural heritage and history. The official launching of Taytayan was done at the Yap-Sandiego Ancestral House, which I consider the oldest house in the Province of Cebu. It may arguably be the oldest house in the Philippines.

This well-preserved antique house is situated in Cebu’s famous Parian District, just a stone’s throw from the old “Bomberohan” and the famous Casa Gorordo across the Ramon Aboitiz Foundation, Inc. headquarters. I support this group because of my love of history. More so that I too grew up in Parian in the old Avila home in Ibarra, which my parents built from the remnants of the Segura Ancestral house which was burned at the start of World War II.

The Taytayan group is led by Cebu’s foremost Dance Maestro Val Sandiego, Gil Maningo of “Kulas” Shirts, Balbino Guerrero or Tatay Bino, Jose “Chilet” Hermosa of Parian, Gavin Bagares, also a founding member of the Kaguikan sa Parian Foundation, Inc., Mr. Paul Melendez who composed the “Mabuhi Ka Sugbuanon” and Joy Uy of Continental Airlines who also resides in my old street in Ibarra.





Pls. visit our Mulltiply..

www.taytayan.multiply.com

A “taytayan” from the past to the future!
SHOOTING STRAIGHT By Valerianoa Avila
Friday, September 26, 2008

Last Wednesday afternoon, I took a break from the hectic Press Freedom Week activities to attend the official launching of “Taytayan” (Bridge in Cebuano) a Heritage Advocacy group that aims to preserve what we can from our past in order to bridge the gap of the Cebuanos of tomorrow who have little or no knowledge of Cebu’s rich cultural heritage and history. The official launching of Taytayan was done at the Yap-Sandiego Ancestral House, which I consider the oldest house in the Province of Cebu. It may arguably be the oldest house in the Philippines.

This well-preserved antique house is situated in Cebu’s famous Parian District, just a stone’s throw from the old “Bomberohan” and the famous Casa Gorordo across the Ramon Aboitiz Foundation, Inc. headquarters. I support this group because of my love of history. More so that I too grew up in Parian in the old Avila home in Ibarra, which my parents built from the remnants of the Segura Ancestral house which was burned at the start of World War II.

The Taytayan group is led by Cebu’s foremost Dance Maestro Val Sandiego, Gil Maningo of “Kulas” Shirts, Balbino Guerrero or Tatay Bino, Jose “Chilet” Hermosa of Parian, Gavin Bagares, also a founding member of the Kaguikan sa Parian Foundation, Inc., Mr. Paul Melendez who composed the “Mabuhi Ka Sugbuanon” and Joy Uy of Continental Airlines who also resides in my old street in Ibarra.





Pls. visit our Mulltiply..

www.taytayan.multiply.com