The Oton Mask is far more intricate in design and has very defined features. The one we found is rather flat. Still, given the evidence, it may be right to assume that the features of the pre-Spanish religion in this part of Cebu were similar to those of Oton especially with regard to the dead.

Yes. I was wondering what ethno-linguistic group today in the Visayan Islands that still resemble the culture of once pre-Hispanic Visayans? Did they have similar pantheon of Gods and some legends or myths that they share or traditions that are similar...in this case between Panay and Cebu?

I'm eager to look for that Panay-Cebu connection regarding the pre-Hispanic cultures.

The Oton Mask is far more intricate in design and has very defined features. The one we found is rather flat. Still, given the evidence, it may be right to assume that the features of the pre-Spanish religion in this part of Cebu were similar to those of Oton especially with regard to the dead.

Yes. I was wondering what ethno-linguistic group today in the Visayan Islands that still resemble the culture of once pre-Hispanic Visayans? Did they have similar pantheon of Gods and some legends or myths that they share or traditions that are similar...in this case between Panay and Cebu?

I'm eager to look for that Panay-Cebu connection regarding the pre-Hispanic cultures.

JoeB
Si Boy ni. Finally managed to work skyscape out. Taga Bogo ako gamit kay taga bogo man. Thanks for the invite.

WOW mas nice ang mask "in person" kay sa imong description.

Sa picture sa mask naa imong gisuwat "Bisayans who could afford it covered their dead's eyes, nose and mouth with gold so that they would be welcomed well in the next world" The Pedro Chirino description, has this anything to do with the christian concept that there is a next world. If the pre-hispanic bisayan has the concept of a next world, the greeks naa Mt. Olympus ang vikings valhalla ang cristiano langit, unsa man ang ato-a.

"He also said the dead with these gold would also be buried with lots and lots of ceramic dishes. The burial wearing this "Gold Mask" was, as Chirino described it, covered in so much ceramic dishes, huge ones as well as tiny jarlets!" - The ancient egyptians bury their dead with things that can be used for life in the afterworld. Kanang ceramic dishes para unsa man na sa tinuho-an sa mga bisaya? Dili sad siguro na para pangbunal sa ulo sa bana kung kadlawon na mo-oli. What comes to my mind is an episode I saw on Nat Geo or History Channel of the Minoan empire in Crete. Coz King Minos had a very very similar burial gold mask to the pics posted here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

To me, the mask seemed to have Greco-Cretan similarities...
.
.
.
ps yuna pa, ang mga Banggiitan guys nga naglingkod o nakigpose tapad ni Cardinal maora'g mga mexicano :yes: ... saludos campesinos

JoeB
Si Boy ni. Finally managed to work skyscape out. Taga Bogo ako gamit kay taga bogo man. Thanks for the invite.

WOW mas nice ang mask "in person" kay sa imong description.

Sa picture sa mask naa imong gisuwat "Bisayans who could afford it covered their dead's eyes, nose and mouth with gold so that they would be welcomed well in the next world" The Pedro Chirino description, has this anything to do with the christian concept that there is a next world. If the pre-hispanic bisayan has the concept of a next world, the greeks naa Mt. Olympus ang vikings valhalla ang cristiano langit, unsa man ang ato-a.

"He also said the dead with these gold would also be buried with lots and lots of ceramic dishes. The burial wearing this "Gold Mask" was, as Chirino described it, covered in so much ceramic dishes, huge ones as well as tiny jarlets!" - The ancient egyptians bury their dead with things that can be used for life in the afterworld. Kanang ceramic dishes para unsa man na sa tinuho-an sa mga bisaya? Dili sad siguro na para pangbunal sa ulo sa bana kung kadlawon na mo-oli. What comes to my mind is an episode I saw on Nat Geo or History Channel of the Minoan empire in Crete. Coz King Minos had a very very similar burial gold mask to the pics posted here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

To me, the mask seemed to have Greco-Cretan similarities...
.
.
.
ps yuna pa, ang mga Banggiitan guys nga naglingkod o nakigpose tapad ni Cardinal maora'g mga mexicano :yes: ... saludos campesinos

Does this indicate that there might be an Islamic community or trading outpost in the area, and probably support the Tausug ancestry of Lapu-Lapu?

Congratulations for the gold find! I hope to read more about it.

nope, of course not. this is found all over the philippines in non-islamic sites. many other ceramics with arab-inspired designs also arrived in Europe, especially Holland and England. that does not make them muslim also.

it's just like some OFWs who have brought souvenirs from saudi arabia and other parts of the middle east after working there. di ba managyo mo ana kay para souvenir?


in this case, other than the bracketed rims and the floral design, their size would make them novelties to our ancestors. perhaps to show around that you can afford to barter your cotton, gold, beeswax and your honey (not the human kind ha) to the arab or muslim traders.


we must not forget that according to early missionary accounts, the traders bringing chinese goods all over the islands were mostly muslims. pareho ra jud karon. halos tanan nga namaligya og DVD gikan sa China via Malaysia are muslims.

nothing much has changed. the ceramic dishes of our pre-colonial past are shiny and round and come from china sold by muslims.


today, the DVDs are also shiny, round, and come from china through malaysia and brought to our houses by muslims.


history is so unchanging in this changeless land.


nahala magpalubong tag karaan nga celadon plate ug bag-o nga DVD aron moingon ang archaeologists 1,000 years from now nga wa juy kausaban ang mga sugbuanon! lolzzzzzzzzzz.

Does this indicate that there might be an Islamic community or trading outpost in the area, and probably support the Tausug ancestry of Lapu-Lapu?

Congratulations for the gold find! I hope to read more about it.

nope, of course not. this is found all over the philippines in non-islamic sites. many other ceramics with arab-inspired designs also arrived in Europe, especially Holland and England. that does not make them muslim also.

it's just like some OFWs who have brought souvenirs from saudi arabia and other parts of the middle east after working there. di ba managyo mo ana kay para souvenir?


in this case, other than the bracketed rims and the floral design, their size would make them novelties to our ancestors. perhaps to show around that you can afford to barter your cotton, gold, beeswax and your honey (not the human kind ha) to the arab or muslim traders.


we must not forget that according to early missionary accounts, the traders bringing chinese goods all over the islands were mostly muslims. pareho ra jud karon. halos tanan nga namaligya og DVD gikan sa China via Malaysia are muslims.

nothing much has changed. the ceramic dishes of our pre-colonial past are shiny and round and come from china sold by muslims.


today, the DVDs are also shiny, round, and come from china through malaysia and brought to our houses by muslims.


history is so unchanging in this changeless land.


nahala magpalubong tag karaan nga celadon plate ug bag-o nga DVD aron moingon ang archaeologists 1,000 years from now nga wa juy kausaban ang mga sugbuanon! lolzzzzzzzzzz.

^^ 1000 years from now, archaeologists excavating the once ancient settlement of Cebu in Via Colon found some silvery round disks of unknown functionality...:lol:

Yeah...tradition still persist as it transcends time. :)

^^ 1000 years from now, archaeologists excavating the once ancient settlement of Cebu in Via Colon found some silvery round disks of unknown functionality...:lol:

Yeah...tradition still persist as it transcends time. :)

JoeB
Si Boy ni. Finally managed to work skyscape out. Taga Bogo ako gamit kay taga bogo man. Thanks for the invite.

WOW mas nice ang mask "in person" kay sa imong description.

Sa picture sa mask naa imong gisuwat "Bisayans who could afford it covered their dead's eyes, nose and mouth with gold so that they would be welcomed well in the next world" The Pedro Chirino description, has this anything to do with the christian concept that there is a next world. If the pre-hispanic bisayan has the concept of a next world, the greeks naa Mt. Olympus ang vikings valhalla ang cristiano langit, unsa man ang ato-a.

"He also said the dead with these gold would also be buried with lots and lots of ceramic dishes. The burial wearing this "Gold Mask" was, as Chirino described it, covered in so much ceramic dishes, huge ones as well as tiny jarlets!" - The ancient egyptians bury their dead with things that can be used for life in the afterworld. Kanang ceramic dishes para unsa man na sa tinuho-an sa mga bisaya? Dili sad siguro na para pangbunal sa ulo sa bana kung kadlawon na mo-oli.


Welcome to this forum Boy. Ang akong paryente nga mliyonaryo! hahaha....paryente bya ta kay fernan imong wife hahaha.


anyway, in the Anthropology of Religion course which I just finished handling at USC, I always teach my students that there is a lot of universality in pre-Christian, pre-Judaic and pre-Islamic beliefs.


the concept of another world are all borrowed by christianity, islam and judaism from earlier beliefs. after all, the founding fathers of these faiths had other beliefs before they started their religions, di ba?


the idea of an afterworld is ingrained in every person's longing for the meaning of life and the innate fear of death.


one way to combat that fear of the beyond is to imagine it exactly as we see our own knowable world---basta dato ka. luoy ang pobre kay magpabilin mang pobre sa next world. unless he or she mimics the trappings of wealth in this world para mailad ang mga taga-afterworld. hahaah.

this is that sharp break between so-called primeval religions and the Thestic, one-god faiths. for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the next world is blissful, happy and paradisical if you are good here in this world---a very different world from the everyday life of suffering, pain and longing for happiness.


in the Cebuano context (as with the Egyptians), the unequal world of datus and their ulipon (or helpers/katulong, erroneously identified as bonded slaves in the Eruopean context), together with their ginsakupans (timawa etc.)
was repeated in the next world.


therefore, ask your relatives to place everything you have in your boat to the next life (your burial ground) so that your status will also be recognized there. this is according to the writings of early missionaries.


we are finally getting confirmation of these accounts, often interspersed with moralistic preaching by their missionary authors.


now, whether those buried with so much ceramics and gold were rich in their life here is open to conjecture. there is a large body of theory in post-processual archaeology that cautions anyone from concluding that just because you have all of these, these were yours.

long story and i do not want to talk serious theories here kay boring. but this is what my proposed dissertation is all about: disproving the notion that ceramics and gold buried with a person were all his or her property.

let's talk more of this when we meet again.


sorry for this long reply.

JoeB
Si Boy ni. Finally managed to work skyscape out. Taga Bogo ako gamit kay taga bogo man. Thanks for the invite.

WOW mas nice ang mask "in person" kay sa imong description.

Sa picture sa mask naa imong gisuwat "Bisayans who could afford it covered their dead's eyes, nose and mouth with gold so that they would be welcomed well in the next world" The Pedro Chirino description, has this anything to do with the christian concept that there is a next world. If the pre-hispanic bisayan has the concept of a next world, the greeks naa Mt. Olympus ang vikings valhalla ang cristiano langit, unsa man ang ato-a.

"He also said the dead with these gold would also be buried with lots and lots of ceramic dishes. The burial wearing this "Gold Mask" was, as Chirino described it, covered in so much ceramic dishes, huge ones as well as tiny jarlets!" - The ancient egyptians bury their dead with things that can be used for life in the afterworld. Kanang ceramic dishes para unsa man na sa tinuho-an sa mga bisaya? Dili sad siguro na para pangbunal sa ulo sa bana kung kadlawon na mo-oli.


Welcome to this forum Boy. Ang akong paryente nga mliyonaryo! hahaha....paryente bya ta kay fernan imong wife hahaha.


anyway, in the Anthropology of Religion course which I just finished handling at USC, I always teach my students that there is a lot of universality in pre-Christian, pre-Judaic and pre-Islamic beliefs.


the concept of another world are all borrowed by christianity, islam and judaism from earlier beliefs. after all, the founding fathers of these faiths had other beliefs before they started their religions, di ba?


the idea of an afterworld is ingrained in every person's longing for the meaning of life and the innate fear of death.


one way to combat that fear of the beyond is to imagine it exactly as we see our own knowable world---basta dato ka. luoy ang pobre kay magpabilin mang pobre sa next world. unless he or she mimics the trappings of wealth in this world para mailad ang mga taga-afterworld. hahaah.

this is that sharp break between so-called primeval religions and the Thestic, one-god faiths. for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the next world is blissful, happy and paradisical if you are good here in this world---a very different world from the everyday life of suffering, pain and longing for happiness.


in the Cebuano context (as with the Egyptians), the unequal world of datus and their ulipon (or helpers/katulong, erroneously identified as bonded slaves in the Eruopean context), together with their ginsakupans (timawa etc.)
was repeated in the next world.


therefore, ask your relatives to place everything you have in your boat to the next life (your burial ground) so that your status will also be recognized there. this is according to the writings of early missionaries.


we are finally getting confirmation of these accounts, often interspersed with moralistic preaching by their missionary authors.


now, whether those buried with so much ceramics and gold were rich in their life here is open to conjecture. there is a large body of theory in post-processual archaeology that cautions anyone from concluding that just because you have all of these, these were yours.

long story and i do not want to talk serious theories here kay boring. but this is what my proposed dissertation is all about: disproving the notion that ceramics and gold buried with a person were all his or her property.

let's talk more of this when we meet again.


sorry for this long reply.

What comes to my mind is an episode I saw on Nat Geo or History Channel of the Minoan empire in Crete. Coz King Minos had a very very similar burial gold mask to the pics posted here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

To me, the mask seemed to have Greco-Cretan similarities...
.
.
.
ps yuna pa, ang mga Banggiitan guys nga naglingkod o nakigpose tapad ni Cardinal maora'g mga mexicano :yes: ... saludos campesinos


or it could be the other way around. ang greco-roman practice kopya sa atong pre-spanish hahahaa....it depends, di ba, on where i nthe world the perspective is.


i remember also the hypothesis that the phoenicians may have learned the building of long-distance boats from island cultures, most especially the Philippines.

why not? hahaah.

BTW, my face and especially the nose, does not do justice to the Aztec features of modern-day Mexicanos. i must disabuse you from your description of me hahah....


...but kana si Mark of SleMarKen, aw that's another story..maalaan pa na nga young Spanish friar from Mexico, understudy ni Fray Urdaneta---nga anaa batan-on pa pod tapad niya!

:banana:

What comes to my mind is an episode I saw on Nat Geo or History Channel of the Minoan empire in Crete. Coz King Minos had a very very similar burial gold mask to the pics posted here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

To me, the mask seemed to have Greco-Cretan similarities...
.
.
.
ps yuna pa, ang mga Banggiitan guys nga naglingkod o nakigpose tapad ni Cardinal maora'g mga mexicano :yes: ... saludos campesinos


or it could be the other way around. ang greco-roman practice kopya sa atong pre-spanish hahahaa....it depends, di ba, on where i nthe world the perspective is.


i remember also the hypothesis that the phoenicians may have learned the building of long-distance boats from island cultures, most especially the Philippines.

why not? hahaah.

BTW, my face and especially the nose, does not do justice to the Aztec features of modern-day Mexicanos. i must disabuse you from your description of me hahah....


...but kana si Mark of SleMarKen, aw that's another story..maalaan pa na nga young Spanish friar from Mexico, understudy ni Fray Urdaneta---nga anaa batan-on pa pod tapad niya!

:banana:

Joe
kadjot lang kay nagkat-on pa ko aning skyscape dili pa kama-o pagamit sa quote.

Thanks for the informative response. Hastang dakoang sayop sa akong pagto-o, abi ko kanang mga ceramics kuyog sa lubong pang bunal na sa mga kalag sa asawa sa kalag sa bana kung sayo sa kadlawon mo-oli :)

Joe
kadjot lang kay nagkat-on pa ko aning skyscape dili pa kama-o pagamit sa quote.

Thanks for the informative response. Hastang dakoang sayop sa akong pagto-o, abi ko kanang mga ceramics kuyog sa lubong pang bunal na sa mga kalag sa asawa sa kalag sa bana kung sayo sa kadlawon mo-oli :)

the idea of an afterworld is ingrained in every person's longing for the meaning of life and the innate fear of death.


one way to combat that fear of the beyond is to imagine it exactly as we see our own knowable world---basta dato ka. luoy ang pobre kay magpabilin mang pobre sa next world. unless he or she mimics the trappings of wealth in this world para mailad ang mga taga-afterworld. hahaah.

this is that sharp break between so-called primeval religions and the Thestic, one-god faiths. for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the next world is blissful, happy and paradisical if you are good here in this world---a very different world from the everyday life of suffering, pain and longing for happiness.


in the Cebuano context (as with the Egyptians), the unequal world of datus and their ulipon (or helpers/katulong, erroneously identified as bonded slaves in the Eruopean context), together with their ginsakupans (timawa etc.)
was repeated in the next world.


therefore, ask your relatives to place everything you have in your boat to the next life (your burial ground) so that your status will also be recognized there. this is according to the writings of early missionaries.


we are finally getting confirmation of these accounts, often interspersed with moralistic preaching by their missionary authors.


now, whether those buried with so much ceramics and gold were rich in their life here is open to conjecture. there is a large body of theory in post-processual archaeology that cautions anyone from concluding that just because you have all of these, these were yours.

long story and i do not want to talk serious theories here kay boring. but this is what my proposed dissertation is all about: disproving the notion that ceramics and gold buried with a person were all his or her property.

let's talk more of this when we meet again.


sorry for this long reply.

that is very asian. in fact, the ancient chinese believe in that too. they believe that heaven is a copy of the present life where businessmen are still businessmen in the afterlife, they even burn paper money, paper houses, paper car etc. because they believe that the dead would need them in the afterlife. they would even search for poor people whose dead relatives would be asked through oracle if they would be willing to be the wealthy man's servants in the afterlife. it's really ridiculous. kawawa naman ang mga mahihirap, houseboy na nga sa mundong ito. pagdating pa sa kabilang buhay, houseboy pa rin sya. :ohno:

the idea of an afterworld is ingrained in every person's longing for the meaning of life and the innate fear of death.


one way to combat that fear of the beyond is to imagine it exactly as we see our own knowable world---basta dato ka. luoy ang pobre kay magpabilin mang pobre sa next world. unless he or she mimics the trappings of wealth in this world para mailad ang mga taga-afterworld. hahaah.

this is that sharp break between so-called primeval religions and the Thestic, one-god faiths. for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the next world is blissful, happy and paradisical if you are good here in this world---a very different world from the everyday life of suffering, pain and longing for happiness.


in the Cebuano context (as with the Egyptians), the unequal world of datus and their ulipon (or helpers/katulong, erroneously identified as bonded slaves in the Eruopean context), together with their ginsakupans (timawa etc.)
was repeated in the next world.


therefore, ask your relatives to place everything you have in your boat to the next life (your burial ground) so that your status will also be recognized there. this is according to the writings of early missionaries.


we are finally getting confirmation of these accounts, often interspersed with moralistic preaching by their missionary authors.


now, whether those buried with so much ceramics and gold were rich in their life here is open to conjecture. there is a large body of theory in post-processual archaeology that cautions anyone from concluding that just because you have all of these, these were yours.

long story and i do not want to talk serious theories here kay boring. but this is what my proposed dissertation is all about: disproving the notion that ceramics and gold buried with a person were all his or her property.

let's talk more of this when we meet again.


sorry for this long reply.

that is very asian. in fact, the ancient chinese believe in that too. they believe that heaven is a copy of the present life where businessmen are still businessmen in the afterlife, they even burn paper money, paper houses, paper car etc. because they believe that the dead would need them in the afterlife. they would even search for poor people whose dead relatives would be asked through oracle if they would be willing to be the wealthy man's servants in the afterlife. it's really ridiculous. kawawa naman ang mga mahihirap, houseboy na nga sa mundong ito. pagdating pa sa kabilang buhay, houseboy pa rin sya. :ohno:

Joe
kadjot lang kay nagkat-on pa ko aning skyscape dili pa kama-o pagamit sa quote.

Thanks for the informative response. Hastang dakoang sayop sa akong pagto-o, abi ko kanang mga ceramics kuyog sa lubong pang bunal na sa mga kalag sa asawa sa kalag sa bana kung sayo sa kadlawon mo-oli :)

Paryente lagi ud ta, Boy. kay maayo jud ta mopakatawa hahahaah...sige, learn the ropes but you can also ask around if maglisud ka.

am off to plaza indpendencia karon taud2 kay duty nako to monitor from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. libre. way abayad. but enjoy kaau.
:lol:

Joe
kadjot lang kay nagkat-on pa ko aning skyscape dili pa kama-o pagamit sa quote.

Thanks for the informative response. Hastang dakoang sayop sa akong pagto-o, abi ko kanang mga ceramics kuyog sa lubong pang bunal na sa mga kalag sa asawa sa kalag sa bana kung sayo sa kadlawon mo-oli :)

Paryente lagi ud ta, Boy. kay maayo jud ta mopakatawa hahahaah...sige, learn the ropes but you can also ask around if maglisud ka.

am off to plaza indpendencia karon taud2 kay duty nako to monitor from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. libre. way abayad. but enjoy kaau.
:lol:

Joe
"Ang akong paryente nga mliyonaryo!" - milyonaryong mini :)

Sige see you soon

Joe
"Ang akong paryente nga mliyonaryo!" - milyonaryong mini :)

Sige see you soon

that is very asian. in fact, the ancient chinese believe in that too. they believe that heaven is a copy of the present life where businessmen are still businessmen in the afterlife, they even burn paper money, paper houses, paper car etc. because they believe that the dead would need them in the afterlife. they would even search for poor people whose dead relatives would be asked through oracle if they would be willing to be the wealthy man's servants in the afterlife. it's really ridiculous. kawawa naman ang mga mahihirap, houseboy na nga sa mundong ito. pagdating pa sa kabilang buhay, houseboy pa rin sya. :ohno:

sa taiwan, daghan kaayog magsunog ug paper money ilabina sa panahon sa gitawag nila ug ghost month ... kay nagkinahanglan pod ug kwarta ang ilang mga nangamatay nga katigulangan, kay kung dili sila mo-remit basin hasi-on kuno sila ... mao na nga importante kaayo sa mga intsik nga makakwarta, para naay mapadala ... <ah, mora pod diay nig kahimtang sa mga ofw nga tigpadala ug kwarta sa ilang mga pamilya>

that is very asian. in fact, the ancient chinese believe in that too. they believe that heaven is a copy of the present life where businessmen are still businessmen in the afterlife, they even burn paper money, paper houses, paper car etc. because they believe that the dead would need them in the afterlife. they would even search for poor people whose dead relatives would be asked through oracle if they would be willing to be the wealthy man's servants in the afterlife. it's really ridiculous. kawawa naman ang mga mahihirap, houseboy na nga sa mundong ito. pagdating pa sa kabilang buhay, houseboy pa rin sya. :ohno:

sa taiwan, daghan kaayog magsunog ug paper money ilabina sa panahon sa gitawag nila ug ghost month ... kay nagkinahanglan pod ug kwarta ang ilang mga nangamatay nga katigulangan, kay kung dili sila mo-remit basin hasi-on kuno sila ... mao na nga importante kaayo sa mga intsik nga makakwarta, para naay mapadala ... <ah, mora pod diay nig kahimtang sa mga ofw nga tigpadala ug kwarta sa ilang mga pamilya>

sa taiwan, daghan kaayog magsunog ug paper money ilabina sa panahon sa gitawag nila ug ghost month ... kay nagkinahanglan pod ug kwarta ang ilang mga nangamatay nga katigulangan, kay kung dili sila mo-remit basin hasi-on kuno sila ... mao na nga importante kaayo sa mga intsik nga makakwarta, para naay mapadala ... <ah, mora pod diay nig kahimtang sa mga ofw nga tigpadala ug kwarta sa ilang mga pamilya>

Side sa akong mama chinese. Iya papa, who died in 1948, gikan sa China, came to cebu around the turn of the 19th century. Ako papa FILIPINO. I used to remember every kalag kalag mag halad ang among relatives sa mother side ug tikoy and other goodies, inig gabi-i mag sunog mi ug folded papel, naa pa korek way of folding, naa gold or silver print sa center. Lupig pa Western union ug Cebuana Llhuiler sa ka kusog padala. Ila minutes, ang chinese pera padala thru smoke in seconds

sa taiwan, daghan kaayog magsunog ug paper money ilabina sa panahon sa gitawag nila ug ghost month ... kay nagkinahanglan pod ug kwarta ang ilang mga nangamatay nga katigulangan, kay kung dili sila mo-remit basin hasi-on kuno sila ... mao na nga importante kaayo sa mga intsik nga makakwarta, para naay mapadala ... <ah, mora pod diay nig kahimtang sa mga ofw nga tigpadala ug kwarta sa ilang mga pamilya>

Side sa akong mama chinese. Iya papa, who died in 1948, gikan sa China, came to cebu around the turn of the 19th century. Ako papa FILIPINO. I used to remember every kalag kalag mag halad ang among relatives sa mother side ug tikoy and other goodies, inig gabi-i mag sunog mi ug folded papel, naa pa korek way of folding, naa gold or silver print sa center. Lupig pa Western union ug Cebuana Llhuiler sa ka kusog padala. Ila minutes, ang chinese pera padala thru smoke in seconds

Does this indicate that there might be an Islamic community or trading outpost in the area, and probably support the Tausug ancestry of Lapu-Lapu?

Congratulations for the gold find! I hope to read more about it.

matud sa akong propesor nga nagresearch bahin sa "maritime silk road" adunay duha ka rota gikan sa china paingon sa southeast asia. ang una, diha dapit sa vietnam paingon sa malay peninsula. ikaduha motabok ang mga intsik sa south china sea paingon sa luzon dayon paingon sa mindoro, dayon sa sulu sea. gikan sa sulo sea moadto sila sa indonesia o mosulod sila sa interior sa visayas. sa mga chinese records sige nig kamention ning sulo, sigurado gyud nga naay trading post ang mga intsik didto .... ug dili pod nato hikalimtan nga duna poy mga intsik nga muslim ... ang labing banggiitan nga intsik nga admiral nga si zheng he usa baya ka muslim (more on zheng he: http://www.islamfortoday.com/zhenghe.htm )

Does this indicate that there might be an Islamic community or trading outpost in the area, and probably support the Tausug ancestry of Lapu-Lapu?

Congratulations for the gold find! I hope to read more about it.

matud sa akong propesor nga nagresearch bahin sa "maritime silk road" adunay duha ka rota gikan sa china paingon sa southeast asia. ang una, diha dapit sa vietnam paingon sa malay peninsula. ikaduha motabok ang mga intsik sa south china sea paingon sa luzon dayon paingon sa mindoro, dayon sa sulu sea. gikan sa sulo sea moadto sila sa indonesia o mosulod sila sa interior sa visayas. sa mga chinese records sige nig kamention ning sulo, sigurado gyud nga naay trading post ang mga intsik didto .... ug dili pod nato hikalimtan nga duna poy mga intsik nga muslim ... ang labing banggiitan nga intsik nga admiral nga si zheng he usa baya ka muslim (more on zheng he: http://www.islamfortoday.com/zhenghe.htm )

Side sa akong mama chinese. Iya papa, who died in 1948, gikan sa China, came to cebu around the turn of the 19th century. Ako papa FILIPINO. I used to remember every kalag kalag mag halad ang among relatives sa mother side ug tikoy and other goodies, inig gabi-i mag sunog mi ug folded papel, naa pa korek way of folding, naa gold or silver print sa center. Lupig pa Western union ug Cebuana Llhuiler sa ka kusog padala. Ila minutes, ang chinese pera padala thru smoke in seconds

sakto gyud ka @tagabogo. in fact, ang number 1 source of income sa mga chinese temples sa hong kong ug taiwan, mao ang pagbaligya aning paper money ....

Side sa akong mama chinese. Iya papa, who died in 1948, gikan sa China, came to cebu around the turn of the 19th century. Ako papa FILIPINO. I used to remember every kalag kalag mag halad ang among relatives sa mother side ug tikoy and other goodies, inig gabi-i mag sunog mi ug folded papel, naa pa korek way of folding, naa gold or silver print sa center. Lupig pa Western union ug Cebuana Llhuiler sa ka kusog padala. Ila minutes, ang chinese pera padala thru smoke in seconds

sakto gyud ka @tagabogo. in fact, ang number 1 source of income sa mga chinese temples sa hong kong ug taiwan, mao ang pagbaligya aning paper money ....

imbis malipay ko tungod kay daghan ug mga nakuy-kuyan, gisapot hinuon ko ug huna-huna kung pila na kaha ang nakwarta sa mga oportunista na kagwang na namaligya sa mga butang na nakuha diha niadtong wala pay nagbantay sa pagpangubkub...

imbis malipay ko tungod kay daghan ug mga nakuy-kuyan, gisapot hinuon ko ug huna-huna kung pila na kaha ang nakwarta sa mga oportunista na kagwang na namaligya sa mga butang na nakuha diha niadtong wala pay nagbantay sa pagpangubkub...

the concept of another world are all borrowed by christianity, islam and judaism from earlier beliefs. after all, the founding fathers of these faiths had other beliefs before they started their religions, di ba?

sakto bay ... kung mobasa ta sa bibliya, makit-an pod nato nga ang development of the concept of life after death ... sa old testament dili pa kaayo ni explicit ... kung magbasa ta, mora ra tag nagbasa ug history sa israel (para sa mga israelites, history is divine history, so mag-apil apil gyud ang ginoo sa history nila) ... pero towards the end of OT nagsugod-sugod na ug unfold ning concept of after life ... nga ingon ang mga scholars nga influencia ni sa mga greeks ...sama niining sa 2 Maccabees 12: 40-46 mabasa nato:

On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs. But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain. They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

the concept of another world are all borrowed by christianity, islam and judaism from earlier beliefs. after all, the founding fathers of these faiths had other beliefs before they started their religions, di ba?

sakto bay ... kung mobasa ta sa bibliya, makit-an pod nato nga ang development of the concept of life after death ... sa old testament dili pa kaayo ni explicit ... kung magbasa ta, mora ra tag nagbasa ug history sa israel (para sa mga israelites, history is divine history, so mag-apil apil gyud ang ginoo sa history nila) ... pero towards the end of OT nagsugod-sugod na ug unfold ning concept of after life ... nga ingon ang mga scholars nga influencia ni sa mga greeks ...sama niining sa 2 Maccabees 12: 40-46 mabasa nato:

On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs. But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain. They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

matud sa akong propesor nga nagresearch bahin sa "maritime silk road" adunay duha ka rota gikan sa china paingon sa southeast asia. ang una, diha dapit sa vietnam paingon sa malay peninsula. ikaduha motabok ang mga intsik sa south china sea paingon sa luzon dayon paingon sa mindoro, dayon sa sulu sea. gikan sa sulo sea moadto sila sa indonesia o mosulod sila sa interior sa visayas. sa mga chinese records sige nig kamention ning sulo, sigurado gyud nga naay trading post ang mga intsik didto .... ug dili pod nato hikalimtan nga duna poy mga intsik nga muslim ... ang labing banggiitan nga intsik nga admiral nga si zheng he usa baya ka muslim (more on zheng he: http://www.islamfortoday.com/zhenghe.htm )

Sa discovery channel (asia) gabii naa show In The Wake Of The Junks. It should supplement sa gisulti sa imong propesor. If you can look it up sa imong cable/TV guide when it will be shown again. It is about a french underwater exploration of a nalonod na chinese junk in palawan.

matud sa akong propesor nga nagresearch bahin sa "maritime silk road" adunay duha ka rota gikan sa china paingon sa southeast asia. ang una, diha dapit sa vietnam paingon sa malay peninsula. ikaduha motabok ang mga intsik sa south china sea paingon sa luzon dayon paingon sa mindoro, dayon sa sulu sea. gikan sa sulo sea moadto sila sa indonesia o mosulod sila sa interior sa visayas. sa mga chinese records sige nig kamention ning sulo, sigurado gyud nga naay trading post ang mga intsik didto .... ug dili pod nato hikalimtan nga duna poy mga intsik nga muslim ... ang labing banggiitan nga intsik nga admiral nga si zheng he usa baya ka muslim (more on zheng he: http://www.islamfortoday.com/zhenghe.htm )

Sa discovery channel (asia) gabii naa show In The Wake Of The Junks. It should supplement sa gisulti sa imong propesor. If you can look it up sa imong cable/TV guide when it will be shown again. It is about a french underwater exploration of a nalonod na chinese junk in palawan.

recommended for reading (written by my prof):

China’s Seaborne Trade with South and Southeast Asia (1200–1750)
Roderich Ptak, Ludwig-Maximilian University, Germany
ISBN: 978-0-86078-776-1

This second selection of studies by Professor Ptak focuses on Chinese maritime trade in the medieval and early modern periods. The first section deals with contacts between China and individual places, in particular Timor, the Sulu Islands, southern India and the islands of the Indian Ocean. Chinese geographical and other accounts of these areas and the trade routes leading to them are examined and where possible, compared with Arabic and Western works from the colonial period. The second part looks at trade in specific commodities such as sandalwood, coral, horses, tortoise-shell, ebony, cloves and tea. Relevant Chinese terms, the uses of each commodity, and the production and distribution are analysed. Both qualitative and quantitative information is drawn from the sources and it is demonstrated that many trade items were much more significant in international business than has been thought. At the same time, these studies highlight the importance of Chinese consumption in driving world commodity flows.

Contents: Introduction; Geography, Routes and Regions: Some references to Timor in old Chinese records; Kurze Zusammenfassung der wichtigsten chinesischen Nachrichten zu den Sulu-Inseln während der Ming-Zeit; The northern trade route to the Spice Islands: South China Sea – Sulu Zone – North Moluccas, (14th to early 16th century); Die Andamanen und Nikobaren nach chinesischen Quellen (Ende Sung bis Ming); Yuan and Early Ming notices on the Kayal area in South India; The Maldive and Laccadive Islands (Lin Shan) in Ming records; Commodities: Terminology, Production, Uses, Trade: The transportation of sandalwood from Timor to China and Macao, c.1350–1600; Notes on the word ‘Shanhu’ and Chinese coral imports from maritime Asia, c.1250–1600; Pferde auf See: Ein vergessener Aspekt des maritimen chinesischen Handels im frühen 15. Jahrhundert; China and the trade in tortoise shell (Sung to Ming periods); Ebenholz in China: Termini, Verwendung, Einfuhr (ca. 1200–1600); China and the trade in Cloves, circa 960–1435; Asian trade in cloves circa 1500: Quantities and trade routes – a synopsis of Portuguese and other sources; Die Rolle der Chinesen, Portugiesen und Holländer im Teehandel zwischen China und Südostasien (ca. 1600–1750); Index.

recommended for reading (written by my prof):

China’s Seaborne Trade with South and Southeast Asia (1200–1750)
Roderich Ptak, Ludwig-Maximilian University, Germany
ISBN: 978-0-86078-776-1

This second selection of studies by Professor Ptak focuses on Chinese maritime trade in the medieval and early modern periods. The first section deals with contacts between China and individual places, in particular Timor, the Sulu Islands, southern India and the islands of the Indian Ocean. Chinese geographical and other accounts of these areas and the trade routes leading to them are examined and where possible, compared with Arabic and Western works from the colonial period. The second part looks at trade in specific commodities such as sandalwood, coral, horses, tortoise-shell, ebony, cloves and tea. Relevant Chinese terms, the uses of each commodity, and the production and distribution are analysed. Both qualitative and quantitative information is drawn from the sources and it is demonstrated that many trade items were much more significant in international business than has been thought. At the same time, these studies highlight the importance of Chinese consumption in driving world commodity flows.

Contents: Introduction; Geography, Routes and Regions: Some references to Timor in old Chinese records; Kurze Zusammenfassung der wichtigsten chinesischen Nachrichten zu den Sulu-Inseln während der Ming-Zeit; The northern trade route to the Spice Islands: South China Sea – Sulu Zone – North Moluccas, (14th to early 16th century); Die Andamanen und Nikobaren nach chinesischen Quellen (Ende Sung bis Ming); Yuan and Early Ming notices on the Kayal area in South India; The Maldive and Laccadive Islands (Lin Shan) in Ming records; Commodities: Terminology, Production, Uses, Trade: The transportation of sandalwood from Timor to China and Macao, c.1350–1600; Notes on the word ‘Shanhu’ and Chinese coral imports from maritime Asia, c.1250–1600; Pferde auf See: Ein vergessener Aspekt des maritimen chinesischen Handels im frühen 15. Jahrhundert; China and the trade in tortoise shell (Sung to Ming periods); Ebenholz in China: Termini, Verwendung, Einfuhr (ca. 1200–1600); China and the trade in Cloves, circa 960–1435; Asian trade in cloves circa 1500: Quantities and trade routes – a synopsis of Portuguese and other sources; Die Rolle der Chinesen, Portugiesen und Holländer im Teehandel zwischen China und Südostasien (ca. 1600–1750); Index.

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).

I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).

I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

btw, USC ROTC Civic Action Group 1973 (Martial Law period),.. pwede pod mi hinganlan
ug POW or hard labor kay requirement man... he he he

btw, USC ROTC Civic Action Group 1973 (Martial Law period),.. pwede pod mi hinganlan
ug POW or hard labor kay requirement man... he he he

5Og7imHBYcY

5Og7imHBYcY

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).

I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

btw, USC ROTC Civic Action Group 1973 (Martial Law period),.. pwede pod mi hinganlan
ug POW or hard labor kay requirement man... he he he

How big is the tunnel? Is it made of concrete or stone? I heard that one tunnel leads to the aduana (Malacañan sa Sugbu).


..

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).

I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

btw, USC ROTC Civic Action Group 1973 (Martial Law period),.. pwede pod mi hinganlan
ug POW or hard labor kay requirement man... he he he

How big is the tunnel? Is it made of concrete or stone? I heard that one tunnel leads to the aduana (Malacañan sa Sugbu).


..

The narrator, Dante Luzon, sounds like he is talking in Spanish.. Hehe..

Even the pacing of his narration reminds me of TVE (Television Español?)


5Og7imHBYcY

The narrator, Dante Luzon, sounds like he is talking in Spanish.. Hehe..

Even the pacing of his narration reminds me of TVE (Television Español?)


5Og7imHBYcY

imbis malipay ko tungod kay daghan ug mga nakuy-kuyan, gisapot hinuon ko ug huna-huna kung pila na kaha ang nakwarta sa mga oportunista na kagwang na namaligya sa mga butang na nakuha diha niadtong wala pay nagbantay sa pagpangubkub...

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

1. when one of the acacia trees was prepared for balling to move it out of the way and replant it nearby in January, a burial was recovered full of ceramics (vases, saucers, dishes, a big dragon jar). the burial was wearing gold earrings akin to the one we found in boljoon and a sheet of etched gold as bracelet (about four inches in width, wound around the wrist!).

the bracelet was already broken when it was retrieved. when the backhoe exposed it, workers immediately dropped down to the excavation and grabbed whatever they could.

outside, an old man with gray hair was waiting for them to sell the gold and ceramics.

2. whenever gold is recovered, the finder brings it to the local pawnshop near Carbon. in one instance a gold armlet sold for P8,000.

3. a large brown dragon jar was bought for P80,000. the worker did not come back anymore to work.

4. for broken plates and dishes, the old man with gray hair (whoever he is may he rot in hell!) would pay 30 pesos per kilo.

5. some workers wondered why others would spend the weekend drinking themsleves dumb. they later realized that this was after a major sale of artifacts had been consummated.

6. the same workers-cum-looters would often grab any of the skulls exposed in the excavation and, in jest, talk to it asking where the gold was located.

7. in one instance, workers left a jar by a narrow ditch so that they could take their lunch. when they came back it was gone! naa poy kinawatay among themselves!!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

imbis malipay ko tungod kay daghan ug mga nakuy-kuyan, gisapot hinuon ko ug huna-huna kung pila na kaha ang nakwarta sa mga oportunista na kagwang na namaligya sa mga butang na nakuha diha niadtong wala pay nagbantay sa pagpangubkub...

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

1. when one of the acacia trees was prepared for balling to move it out of the way and replant it nearby in January, a burial was recovered full of ceramics (vases, saucers, dishes, a big dragon jar). the burial was wearing gold earrings akin to the one we found in boljoon and a sheet of etched gold as bracelet (about four inches in width, wound around the wrist!).

the bracelet was already broken when it was retrieved. when the backhoe exposed it, workers immediately dropped down to the excavation and grabbed whatever they could.

outside, an old man with gray hair was waiting for them to sell the gold and ceramics.

2. whenever gold is recovered, the finder brings it to the local pawnshop near Carbon. in one instance a gold armlet sold for P8,000.

3. a large brown dragon jar was bought for P80,000. the worker did not come back anymore to work.

4. for broken plates and dishes, the old man with gray hair (whoever he is may he rot in hell!) would pay 30 pesos per kilo.

5. some workers wondered why others would spend the weekend drinking themsleves dumb. they later realized that this was after a major sale of artifacts had been consummated.

6. the same workers-cum-looters would often grab any of the skulls exposed in the excavation and, in jest, talk to it asking where the gold was located.

7. in one instance, workers left a jar by a narrow ditch so that they could take their lunch. when they came back it was gone! naa poy kinawatay among themselves!!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).


long process pa na afer cleaning. there is accessioning of each artifact and every piece of sherd (assignment of catalogue numbers), encoding on computer, then these are analyzed. some are sent to the NM lab in Manila for conservation. i think everything will be brought to Manila for processing and analysis.

once ma-pirmahan na ang renewal sa contract between the city and NM to use fort san pedro for a museum, i suppose mabalik na dri. otherwise, if dili mapirmahan ang MOa, the fort san pedro museum branch of NM will remain close for good. and all the artifacts will be stored in Manila until a museum can be found in the city for it.




I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

wow! asa na kaha na karon? paet!!! paet jud!!!

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).


long process pa na afer cleaning. there is accessioning of each artifact and every piece of sherd (assignment of catalogue numbers), encoding on computer, then these are analyzed. some are sent to the NM lab in Manila for conservation. i think everything will be brought to Manila for processing and analysis.

once ma-pirmahan na ang renewal sa contract between the city and NM to use fort san pedro for a museum, i suppose mabalik na dri. otherwise, if dili mapirmahan ang MOa, the fort san pedro museum branch of NM will remain close for good. and all the artifacts will be stored in Manila until a museum can be found in the city for it.




I cannot help but recall when we cleaned up the "tunnels" around the Fort way back early 1970s (USC ROTC Civic Action Group)... it was a mix of Japanese and Spanish artifacts that we found and until now I have not seen it in the "museum", there were Spanish metal vests and helmets, rusty swords (some with silver handles), and of course a laureat of Japanese items like bayonets, bullets, rusty katanas, pikbong rifles, etc...

Cheers and congrats!

wow! asa na kaha na karon? paet!!! paet jud!!!

recommended for reading (written by my prof):

China’s Seaborne Trade with South and Southeast Asia (1200–1750)
Roderich Ptak, Ludwig-Maximilian University, Germany
ISBN: 978-0-86078-776-1

This second selection of studies by Professor Ptak focuses on Chinese maritime trade in the medieval and early modern periods. The first section deals with contacts between China and individual places, in particular Timor, the Sulu Islands, southern India and the islands of the Indian Ocean. Chinese geographical and other accounts of these areas and the trade routes leading to them are examined and where possible, compared with Arabic and Western works from the colonial period. The second part looks at trade in specific commodities such as sandalwood, coral, horses, tortoise-shell, ebony, cloves and tea. Relevant Chinese terms, the uses of each commodity, and the production and distribution are analysed. Both qualitative and quantitative information is drawn from the sources and it is demonstrated that many trade items were much more significant in international business than has been thought. At the same time, these studies highlight the importance of Chinese consumption in driving world commodity flows.

Contents: Introduction; Geography, Routes and Regions: Some references to Timor in old Chinese records; Kurze Zusammenfassung der wichtigsten chinesischen Nachrichten zu den Sulu-Inseln während der Ming-Zeit; The northern trade route to the Spice Islands: South China Sea – Sulu Zone – North Moluccas, (14th to early 16th century); Die Andamanen und Nikobaren nach chinesischen Quellen (Ende Sung bis Ming); Yuan and Early Ming notices on the Kayal area in South India; The Maldive and Laccadive Islands (Lin Shan) in Ming records; Commodities: Terminology, Production, Uses, Trade: The transportation of sandalwood from Timor to China and Macao, c.1350–1600; Notes on the word ‘Shanhu’ and Chinese coral imports from maritime Asia, c.1250–1600; Pferde auf See: Ein vergessener Aspekt des maritimen chinesischen Handels im frühen 15. Jahrhundert; China and the trade in tortoise shell (Sung to Ming periods); Ebenholz in China: Termini, Verwendung, Einfuhr (ca. 1200–1600); China and the trade in Cloves, circa 960–1435; Asian trade in cloves circa 1500: Quantities and trade routes – a synopsis of Portuguese and other sources; Die Rolle der Chinesen, Portugiesen und Holländer im Teehandel zwischen China und Südostasien (ca. 1600–1750); Index.


die Buch ist auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

recommended for reading (written by my prof):

China’s Seaborne Trade with South and Southeast Asia (1200–1750)
Roderich Ptak, Ludwig-Maximilian University, Germany
ISBN: 978-0-86078-776-1

This second selection of studies by Professor Ptak focuses on Chinese maritime trade in the medieval and early modern periods. The first section deals with contacts between China and individual places, in particular Timor, the Sulu Islands, southern India and the islands of the Indian Ocean. Chinese geographical and other accounts of these areas and the trade routes leading to them are examined and where possible, compared with Arabic and Western works from the colonial period. The second part looks at trade in specific commodities such as sandalwood, coral, horses, tortoise-shell, ebony, cloves and tea. Relevant Chinese terms, the uses of each commodity, and the production and distribution are analysed. Both qualitative and quantitative information is drawn from the sources and it is demonstrated that many trade items were much more significant in international business than has been thought. At the same time, these studies highlight the importance of Chinese consumption in driving world commodity flows.

Contents: Introduction; Geography, Routes and Regions: Some references to Timor in old Chinese records; Kurze Zusammenfassung der wichtigsten chinesischen Nachrichten zu den Sulu-Inseln während der Ming-Zeit; The northern trade route to the Spice Islands: South China Sea – Sulu Zone – North Moluccas, (14th to early 16th century); Die Andamanen und Nikobaren nach chinesischen Quellen (Ende Sung bis Ming); Yuan and Early Ming notices on the Kayal area in South India; The Maldive and Laccadive Islands (Lin Shan) in Ming records; Commodities: Terminology, Production, Uses, Trade: The transportation of sandalwood from Timor to China and Macao, c.1350–1600; Notes on the word ‘Shanhu’ and Chinese coral imports from maritime Asia, c.1250–1600; Pferde auf See: Ein vergessener Aspekt des maritimen chinesischen Handels im frühen 15. Jahrhundert; China and the trade in tortoise shell (Sung to Ming periods); Ebenholz in China: Termini, Verwendung, Einfuhr (ca. 1200–1600); China and the trade in Cloves, circa 960–1435; Asian trade in cloves circa 1500: Quantities and trade routes – a synopsis of Portuguese and other sources; Die Rolle der Chinesen, Portugiesen und Holländer im Teehandel zwischen China und Südostasien (ca. 1600–1750); Index.


die Buch ist auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

Who could that old man be?

Grabe noh?

So he was really expecting/anticipating that precious artifacts will be found because he was waiting outside.

Nindot pod i scour ang mga pawnshops sa Carbon basin naa pa diay.


...

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

1. when one of the acacia trees was prepared for balling to move it out of the way and replant it nearby in January, a burial was recovered full of ceramics (vases, saucers, dishes, a big dragon jar). the burial was wearing gold earrings akin to the one we found in boljoon and a sheet of etched gold as bracelet (about four inches in width, wound around the wrist!).

the bracelet was already broken when it was retrieved. when the backhoe exposed it, workers immediately dropped down to the excavation and grabbed whatever they could.

outside, an old man with gray hair was waiting for them to sell the gold and ceramics.

2. whenever gold is recovered, the finder brings it to the local pawnshop near Carbon. in one instance a gold armlet sold for P8,000.

3. a large brown dragon jar was bought for P80,000. the worker did not come back anymore to work.

4. for broken plates and dishes, the old man with gray hair (whoever he is may he rot in hell!) would pay 30 pesos per kilo.

5. some workers wondered why others would spend the weekend drinking themsleves dumb. they later realized that this was after a major sale of artifacts had been consummated.

6. the same workers-cum-looters would often grab any of the skulls exposed in the excavation and, in jest, talk to it asking where the gold was located.

7. in one instance, workers left a jar by a narrow ditch so that they could take their lunch. when they came back it was gone! naa poy kinawatay among themselves!!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Who could that old man be?

Grabe noh?

So he was really expecting/anticipating that precious artifacts will be found because he was waiting outside.

Nindot pod i scour ang mga pawnshops sa Carbon basin naa pa diay.


...

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

1. when one of the acacia trees was prepared for balling to move it out of the way and replant it nearby in January, a burial was recovered full of ceramics (vases, saucers, dishes, a big dragon jar). the burial was wearing gold earrings akin to the one we found in boljoon and a sheet of etched gold as bracelet (about four inches in width, wound around the wrist!).

the bracelet was already broken when it was retrieved. when the backhoe exposed it, workers immediately dropped down to the excavation and grabbed whatever they could.

outside, an old man with gray hair was waiting for them to sell the gold and ceramics.

2. whenever gold is recovered, the finder brings it to the local pawnshop near Carbon. in one instance a gold armlet sold for P8,000.

3. a large brown dragon jar was bought for P80,000. the worker did not come back anymore to work.

4. for broken plates and dishes, the old man with gray hair (whoever he is may he rot in hell!) would pay 30 pesos per kilo.

5. some workers wondered why others would spend the weekend drinking themsleves dumb. they later realized that this was after a major sale of artifacts had been consummated.

6. the same workers-cum-looters would often grab any of the skulls exposed in the excavation and, in jest, talk to it asking where the gold was located.

7. in one instance, workers left a jar by a narrow ditch so that they could take their lunch. when they came back it was gone! naa poy kinawatay among themselves!!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Who could that old man be?

Grabe noh?

So he was really expecting/anticipating that precious artifacts will be found because he was waiting outside.

Nindot pod i scour ang mga pawnshops sa Carbon basin naa pa diay.


...


the possibilities are zillion, di ba? i was thinking to myself ganiha that had i known nga ingon ana ra diay, i could have posed outside as a buyer unta.

pwera gaba man gud nang parks and playgrounds commission. this was happening under their very noses unya wa juy deparal! unsaon nga pulos ra man landscaping ang alamag anang mga tawhana!!!

but CHAC, the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commision is another story. I leave it to history to judge these groups ngano wala sila nagpakabana. It will go down to history that for one full year, while this looting was going on, these offices did nothing, nothing, nothing!

Ganiha lang, after the news about the gold mask ha, wa juy nagpakita man lang didto para motan-aw!!! pwera gaba ning mga opisyales who are supposed to guard the city's heritage!!! They do not even know the implication of having the second gold mask ever recovered in the country's archaeological history!!!!

anyway, sukad daw nabalita na ang looting after i wrote in my column, was na jud daw nagpakita ang kanahang buyer. patay na tingali. gibira na to sa mga gilubong didto sa plaza!

Who could that old man be?

Grabe noh?

So he was really expecting/anticipating that precious artifacts will be found because he was waiting outside.

Nindot pod i scour ang mga pawnshops sa Carbon basin naa pa diay.


...


the possibilities are zillion, di ba? i was thinking to myself ganiha that had i known nga ingon ana ra diay, i could have posed outside as a buyer unta.

pwera gaba man gud nang parks and playgrounds commission. this was happening under their very noses unya wa juy deparal! unsaon nga pulos ra man landscaping ang alamag anang mga tawhana!!!

but CHAC, the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commision is another story. I leave it to history to judge these groups ngano wala sila nagpakabana. It will go down to history that for one full year, while this looting was going on, these offices did nothing, nothing, nothing!

Ganiha lang, after the news about the gold mask ha, wa juy nagpakita man lang didto para motan-aw!!! pwera gaba ning mga opisyales who are supposed to guard the city's heritage!!! They do not even know the implication of having the second gold mask ever recovered in the country's archaeological history!!!!

anyway, sukad daw nabalita na ang looting after i wrote in my column, was na jud daw nagpakita ang kanahang buyer. patay na tingali. gibira na to sa mga gilubong didto sa plaza!

Here are photos of some of the burials that were recovered:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/burial17.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/burial18.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/bunchofbowls.jpg

Here are photos of some of the burials that were recovered:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/burial17.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/burial18.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/bunchofbowls.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro6.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro10.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro8.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/kendi.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro6.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro10.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro8.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/kendi.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox.jpg

die Buch ist auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

Man sieht, dass im Inhaltsverzeichnis die Beiträge englische und deutsche Titel haben. Die Artikel, die mit englischen Titeln haben, sind auf englisch geschrieben .... kung makit-an nato sa talaan ang mga title sa mga artikulo, adunay aleman, adunay ininglis ... kadtong ingles ug title gisuwat sa pinulungang iningles

die Buch ist auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

Man sieht, dass im Inhaltsverzeichnis die Beiträge englische und deutsche Titel haben. Die Artikel, die mit englischen Titeln haben, sind auf englisch geschrieben .... kung makit-an nato sa talaan ang mga title sa mga artikulo, adunay aleman, adunay ininglis ... kadtong ingles ug title gisuwat sa pinulungang iningles

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro6.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro10.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro8.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/kendi.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox.jpg

Well, what can I say?

Amazing!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro6.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro10.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/fortsanpedro8.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/kendi.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox.jpg

Well, what can I say?

Amazing!

Man sieht, dass im Inhaltsverzeichnis die Beiträge englische und deutsche Titel haben. Die Artikel, die mit englischen Titeln haben, sind auf englisch geschrieben .... kung makit-an nato sa talaan ang mga title sa mga artikulo, adunay aleman, adunay ininglis ... kadtong ingles ug title gisuwat sa pinulungang iningles

ach so, ich glaube man kann nur im Deutschland dieses Buch zu kaufen? sakto pa ba kaha ni ako German? it's been 10 years since i last used it hahaha....

fotokopieren Bitte na lang kaha hehehe....

Danke Schon daan ha.

Man sieht, dass im Inhaltsverzeichnis die Beiträge englische und deutsche Titel haben. Die Artikel, die mit englischen Titeln haben, sind auf englisch geschrieben .... kung makit-an nato sa talaan ang mga title sa mga artikulo, adunay aleman, adunay ininglis ... kadtong ingles ug title gisuwat sa pinulungang iningles

ach so, ich glaube man kann nur im Deutschland dieses Buch zu kaufen? sakto pa ba kaha ni ako German? it's been 10 years since i last used it hahaha....

fotokopieren Bitte na lang kaha hehehe....

Danke Schon daan ha.

ach so, ich glaube man kann nur im Deutschland dieses Buch zu kaufen? sakto pa ba kaha ni ako German? it's been 10 years since i last used it hahaha....

fotokopieren Bitte na lang kaha hehehe....

Danke Schon daan ha.

pwede piktyuran na lang nako kanang mga articles related sa pilipinas, ipadala na lang nako per email

ach so, ich glaube man kann nur im Deutschland dieses Buch zu kaufen? sakto pa ba kaha ni ako German? it's been 10 years since i last used it hahaha....

fotokopieren Bitte na lang kaha hehehe....

Danke Schon daan ha.

pwede piktyuran na lang nako kanang mga articles related sa pilipinas, ipadala na lang nako per email

the possibilities are zillion, di ba? i was thinking to myself ganiha that had i known nga ingon ana ra diay, i could have posed outside as a buyer unta.

pwera gaba man gud nang parks and playgrounds commission. this was happening under their very noses unya wa juy deparal! unsaon nga pulos ra man landscaping ang alamag anang mga tawhana!!!

but CHAC, the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commision is another story. I leave it to history to judge these groups ngano wala sila nagpakabana. It will go down to history that for one full year, while this looting was going on, these offices did nothing, nothing, nothing!

Ganiha lang, after the news about the gold mask ha, wa juy nagpakita man lang didto para motan-aw!!! pwera gaba ning mga opisyales who are supposed to guard the city's heritage!!! They do not even know the implication of having the second gold mask ever recovered in the country's archaeological history!!!!

anyway, sukad daw nabalita na ang looting after i wrote in my column, was na jud daw nagpakita ang kanahang buyer. patay na tingali. gibira na to sa mga gilubong didto sa plaza!

^^ maong wala silay pakabana, kay lain man ang ilang priority sama ani:

Why is Cebu City seal on the floor?

ITS seal being a “symbol of authority,” the Cebu City Government should not have placed it on the floor for people to step on, a former city official said yesterday.

“The seal of a local government unit (LGU) should not be displayed for people to step on because it diminishes its importance as symbol of authority,” said lawyer Manuel Legaspi, an Integrated Bar of the Philippines governor.

A Cebu City councilor for two terms, Legaspi now sits in the board of the City Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission (Chac), which Acting Mayor Michael Rama heads.

Legaspi questioned why the seal is on the floor of the lobby of the renovated Legislative Building right by the main entrance. People who go in and out of the building inevitably step on the seal.

“Why should people just step on the seal of a very important local government unit, which is recognized not just in the Philippines but in the world?” he said.

He said it is okay if government agencies place their seal on the doorsteps, but it should not be in the case of LGUs, especially Cebu City.

He said others of the Chac share the same concern, which he raised in yesterday’s public hearing on the draft ordinance adopting an official seal of the City.

The City has long used as its seal an image of checkered blocks underneath a representation of Magellan’s Cross. This is enclosed within a circle inside a bigger circle. However, the City has not officially adopted it as a symbol.

In a proposed measure, City Councilor Lea Japson said Cebu City needs an “emblem of authority.”

The seal, she said, is “essential to have an identity that sets it apart from the others and one that inspires trust, admiration, respect and loyalty of the people it represents.”

In an interview, Acting Vice Mayor Hilario Davide III said Legaspi has a point worth pondering.

He said the Supreme Court, for example, cordoned off its seal, which sits half-inclined on the floor.

But he said that while “the observation is valid,” having the seal on the floor of the Legislative Building attracts the attention of people towards it and what it represents.

“When people step on it, it doesn’t mean desecration or that they intend disrespect, or that they intentionally disregard the seal of the City. It is a valid point, but for me
no disrespect is meant,” Davide said.

He said that for the seal to be on the floor and readily seen by all reminds Cebuanos that it represents the “hopes and aspirations of the inhabitants of the City.”

“I don’t see anything wrong ana kay even the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency of the US Government) naa sa floor ang ilang seal,” he added.

Legaspi mentioned the seal on the Legislative Building’s floor after presenting the points the Chac raised on Japson’s proposed measure.

He pointed out the need for permanency of the seal, which is not assured with the two stars in the seal being made to represent the two political districts.

If another district is created, which is being thought of already, then the stars would no longer be representative of the districts composing the city, he said.

The Magellan’s Cross kiosk “represents the seed of Christianity in the country,” while the checkered blocks symbolize the 80 barangays, though not necessarily the same number.

The yellow color of the round seal is meant to represent the “hopes and aspirations of the people of the City of Cebu.”

Legaspi, though, said that Chac thinks that yellow is “not exactly representative of hopes and aspirations,” which University of the Philippines sociologist Sofia Logarta also pointed out.

She said the Chac was correct in suggesting gold. She also offered the color brown as a symbol of race.

Legaspi likewise said that many have called Chac’s attention to the cross inside the Magellan’s Cross kiosk being described as “a replica of the wooden cross which Ferdinand Magellan…planted in Cebu on April 14, 1521.” It is not.

City Councilor Rodrigo Abellanosa mentioned that an inscription in the kiosk states that the original cross is encased by the cross that is being displayed.

While she does not object to the use of the Magellan’s Cross, as it is already synonymous to Cebu City and shows its heritage, other religious groups may question why
only a Christian symbol is made part of the seal of the City.

The council asked both Legaspi and Logarta to write their suggestions for members to consider during the final deliberation on the ordinance. (RHM)

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2008/10/16/news/why.is.cebu.city.seal.on.the.floor..html


Magellan’s Cross out of city seal?

Thursday, October 16, 2008

Should the structure of the Magellan’s Cross be taken out from the current seal of Cebu City?

Such question arose as one of the speakers, during the public hearing on the ordinance adopting a new seal of the city, raised a legal question concerning the presence of the said cross which may have violated the Constitutional provision on separation of Church and State.

Dr. Sophia Logarta, a professor of the University of the Philippines, said that the presence of the cross could be a “concern on the inclusiveness of a religion, as it excludes other religion.”

However, Logarta said that the structure (Magellan’s Cross) can easily be identified with the city.

She suggested that the city should have a seal that has something related to trading, because it has been a symbol or the source of survival among the early Cebuanos.

“But we are predominantly Catholics. The seal (current one) is good and simple but I am worried on the sensibility of other religion, though the possibility is less. I am more concerned also that the controversy in removing it could be greater,” Logarta said.

City councilor Arsenio Pacaña said that the Magellan’s Cross is a “historical fact and part of the Cebuano’s heritage.”

Manuel Legaspi of the City Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission endorsed the proposed ordinance, authored by Councilor Lea Ouano-Japson, with a few comments.

The Magellan’s Cross, Japson said, represents the seed of Christianity in the country planted in Cebu on April 14, 1521 and that the present cross inside the kiosk is a replica of the wooden cross of Ferdinand Magellan, the first Spanish conquistador to discover the Philippines.

But Legaspi said that even historians are still debating on the issue as to whether such cross is the “replica of the original one”; and instead suggested that the “cross should serve as a reminder of Christianity.”

The proposed ordinance added that two stars in the seal represent the two political representative districts of the city.

However, Legaspi said that the seal must be permanent in nature as the two stars representing the two districts of the city would become irrelevant if another district will be added in the city.

The blocks represent the political subdivision of the city into independent barangays and symbolize the strength of the local government unit geared towards the realization of noble visions and goals.
Legaspi and Logarta interposed no objections on this.

The proposed ordinance added that the yellow color around the seal signifies hopes and aspirations of the people and the city. But Legaspi suggested the color gold to represent hope and aspiration.

Logarta, for her part, said that yellow color has another meaning.

“It could be cowardice or ill-health,” she said as she agreed with the gold or brown color, which represents our brown race and sense of greatness.

The proposed ordinance added that the city envisions of becoming the most livable city to all, a city second to none, and with the mission to ensure environmentally friendly, financially dynamic, pro-active and self-reliant city government with well-informed and participative barangay and community.

It added that the seal should recognize the city from the rest of the LGU in the entire country and around the globe, an emblem or symbol of authority; and that it is essential to have an identity that sets it apart from the others – one that inspires trust, admiration, respect, and loyalty to the people it represents. — Mitchelle L. Palaubsanon/MEEV

http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Local%20News&p=52&type=2&sec=70&aid=20081015178

the possibilities are zillion, di ba? i was thinking to myself ganiha that had i known nga ingon ana ra diay, i could have posed outside as a buyer unta.

pwera gaba man gud nang parks and playgrounds commission. this was happening under their very noses unya wa juy deparal! unsaon nga pulos ra man landscaping ang alamag anang mga tawhana!!!

but CHAC, the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commision is another story. I leave it to history to judge these groups ngano wala sila nagpakabana. It will go down to history that for one full year, while this looting was going on, these offices did nothing, nothing, nothing!

Ganiha lang, after the news about the gold mask ha, wa juy nagpakita man lang didto para motan-aw!!! pwera gaba ning mga opisyales who are supposed to guard the city's heritage!!! They do not even know the implication of having the second gold mask ever recovered in the country's archaeological history!!!!

anyway, sukad daw nabalita na ang looting after i wrote in my column, was na jud daw nagpakita ang kanahang buyer. patay na tingali. gibira na to sa mga gilubong didto sa plaza!

^^ maong wala silay pakabana, kay lain man ang ilang priority sama ani:

Why is Cebu City seal on the floor?

ITS seal being a “symbol of authority,” the Cebu City Government should not have placed it on the floor for people to step on, a former city official said yesterday.

“The seal of a local government unit (LGU) should not be displayed for people to step on because it diminishes its importance as symbol of authority,” said lawyer Manuel Legaspi, an Integrated Bar of the Philippines governor.

A Cebu City councilor for two terms, Legaspi now sits in the board of the City Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission (Chac), which Acting Mayor Michael Rama heads.

Legaspi questioned why the seal is on the floor of the lobby of the renovated Legislative Building right by the main entrance. People who go in and out of the building inevitably step on the seal.

“Why should people just step on the seal of a very important local government unit, which is recognized not just in the Philippines but in the world?” he said.

He said it is okay if government agencies place their seal on the doorsteps, but it should not be in the case of LGUs, especially Cebu City.

He said others of the Chac share the same concern, which he raised in yesterday’s public hearing on the draft ordinance adopting an official seal of the City.

The City has long used as its seal an image of checkered blocks underneath a representation of Magellan’s Cross. This is enclosed within a circle inside a bigger circle. However, the City has not officially adopted it as a symbol.

In a proposed measure, City Councilor Lea Japson said Cebu City needs an “emblem of authority.”

The seal, she said, is “essential to have an identity that sets it apart from the others and one that inspires trust, admiration, respect and loyalty of the people it represents.”

In an interview, Acting Vice Mayor Hilario Davide III said Legaspi has a point worth pondering.

He said the Supreme Court, for example, cordoned off its seal, which sits half-inclined on the floor.

But he said that while “the observation is valid,” having the seal on the floor of the Legislative Building attracts the attention of people towards it and what it represents.

“When people step on it, it doesn’t mean desecration or that they intend disrespect, or that they intentionally disregard the seal of the City. It is a valid point, but for me
no disrespect is meant,” Davide said.

He said that for the seal to be on the floor and readily seen by all reminds Cebuanos that it represents the “hopes and aspirations of the inhabitants of the City.”

“I don’t see anything wrong ana kay even the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency of the US Government) naa sa floor ang ilang seal,” he added.

Legaspi mentioned the seal on the Legislative Building’s floor after presenting the points the Chac raised on Japson’s proposed measure.

He pointed out the need for permanency of the seal, which is not assured with the two stars in the seal being made to represent the two political districts.

If another district is created, which is being thought of already, then the stars would no longer be representative of the districts composing the city, he said.

The Magellan’s Cross kiosk “represents the seed of Christianity in the country,” while the checkered blocks symbolize the 80 barangays, though not necessarily the same number.

The yellow color of the round seal is meant to represent the “hopes and aspirations of the people of the City of Cebu.”

Legaspi, though, said that Chac thinks that yellow is “not exactly representative of hopes and aspirations,” which University of the Philippines sociologist Sofia Logarta also pointed out.

She said the Chac was correct in suggesting gold. She also offered the color brown as a symbol of race.

Legaspi likewise said that many have called Chac’s attention to the cross inside the Magellan’s Cross kiosk being described as “a replica of the wooden cross which Ferdinand Magellan…planted in Cebu on April 14, 1521.” It is not.

City Councilor Rodrigo Abellanosa mentioned that an inscription in the kiosk states that the original cross is encased by the cross that is being displayed.

While she does not object to the use of the Magellan’s Cross, as it is already synonymous to Cebu City and shows its heritage, other religious groups may question why
only a Christian symbol is made part of the seal of the City.

The council asked both Legaspi and Logarta to write their suggestions for members to consider during the final deliberation on the ordinance. (RHM)

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2008/10/16/news/why.is.cebu.city.seal.on.the.floor..html


Magellan’s Cross out of city seal?

Thursday, October 16, 2008

Should the structure of the Magellan’s Cross be taken out from the current seal of Cebu City?

Such question arose as one of the speakers, during the public hearing on the ordinance adopting a new seal of the city, raised a legal question concerning the presence of the said cross which may have violated the Constitutional provision on separation of Church and State.

Dr. Sophia Logarta, a professor of the University of the Philippines, said that the presence of the cross could be a “concern on the inclusiveness of a religion, as it excludes other religion.”

However, Logarta said that the structure (Magellan’s Cross) can easily be identified with the city.

She suggested that the city should have a seal that has something related to trading, because it has been a symbol or the source of survival among the early Cebuanos.

“But we are predominantly Catholics. The seal (current one) is good and simple but I am worried on the sensibility of other religion, though the possibility is less. I am more concerned also that the controversy in removing it could be greater,” Logarta said.

City councilor Arsenio Pacaña said that the Magellan’s Cross is a “historical fact and part of the Cebuano’s heritage.”

Manuel Legaspi of the City Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission endorsed the proposed ordinance, authored by Councilor Lea Ouano-Japson, with a few comments.

The Magellan’s Cross, Japson said, represents the seed of Christianity in the country planted in Cebu on April 14, 1521 and that the present cross inside the kiosk is a replica of the wooden cross of Ferdinand Magellan, the first Spanish conquistador to discover the Philippines.

But Legaspi said that even historians are still debating on the issue as to whether such cross is the “replica of the original one”; and instead suggested that the “cross should serve as a reminder of Christianity.”

The proposed ordinance added that two stars in the seal represent the two political representative districts of the city.

However, Legaspi said that the seal must be permanent in nature as the two stars representing the two districts of the city would become irrelevant if another district will be added in the city.

The blocks represent the political subdivision of the city into independent barangays and symbolize the strength of the local government unit geared towards the realization of noble visions and goals.
Legaspi and Logarta interposed no objections on this.

The proposed ordinance added that the yellow color around the seal signifies hopes and aspirations of the people and the city. But Legaspi suggested the color gold to represent hope and aspiration.

Logarta, for her part, said that yellow color has another meaning.

“It could be cowardice or ill-health,” she said as she agreed with the gold or brown color, which represents our brown race and sense of greatness.

The proposed ordinance added that the city envisions of becoming the most livable city to all, a city second to none, and with the mission to ensure environmentally friendly, financially dynamic, pro-active and self-reliant city government with well-informed and participative barangay and community.

It added that the seal should recognize the city from the rest of the LGU in the entire country and around the globe, an emblem or symbol of authority; and that it is essential to have an identity that sets it apart from the others – one that inspires trust, admiration, respect, and loyalty to the people it represents. — Mitchelle L. Palaubsanon/MEEV

http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Local%20News&p=52&type=2&sec=70&aid=20081015178

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Joe B
In as much as I sympathies with your grrrrrrrr.... In as much as I am feeling grrrrrrr.....
Basin nag damgo lang ta mabawi pa. Hino-on raising awareness is much better kay sa wala tay buhaton.

i will recount some things I learned out of my chit chat with workers at the site:

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

read na lang my column sa CDN ugma. i challenge the CHAC and the parks and playgrounds commission to investigate these incidents, run after the buyers of these artifacts and confiscate them---and in the process cut the heads off of these collectors!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Joe B
In as much as I sympathies with your grrrrrrrr.... In as much as I am feeling grrrrrrr.....
Basin nag damgo lang ta mabawi pa. Hino-on raising awareness is much better kay sa wala tay buhaton.

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).



Cheers and congrats!

Thanks. I stand corrected. The artifacts will be stored at USC diay. I just learned from NM right now. They are asking us to hold on to them until maklaro ang final repository.

Bai Archaeologue,

After cleaning these artifacts, asa man pod na e-display? Forget the "museum" sa
Fort San Pedro unless they will do something to really guarantee its safety (not from
burglars).



Cheers and congrats!

Thanks. I stand corrected. The artifacts will be stored at USC diay. I just learned from NM right now. They are asking us to hold on to them until maklaro ang final repository.

Joe B
In as much as I sympathies with your grrrrrrrr.... In as much as I am feeling grrrrrrr.....
Basin nag damgo lang ta mabawi pa. Hino-on raising awareness is much better kay sa wala tay buhaton.

Tua na koy gipaadto sa Naga para contakon ang mga ungo didto ug mga mambabarang. sila ra'y bahala mo-kontak sa mga kalag para gukuron ang mga kawatan ug ang mga collectors.

Joe B
In as much as I sympathies with your grrrrrrrr.... In as much as I am feeling grrrrrrr.....
Basin nag damgo lang ta mabawi pa. Hino-on raising awareness is much better kay sa wala tay buhaton.

Tua na koy gipaadto sa Naga para contakon ang mga ungo didto ug mga mambabarang. sila ra'y bahala mo-kontak sa mga kalag para gukuron ang mga kawatan ug ang mga collectors.

^^ maong wala silay pakabana, kay lain man ang ilang priority sama ani:



hayyy mao jud. unya, nagpataka lang pod ning uban. ang yellow nga color harkens to part of the Spanish standard (red and yellow), dili about being weak. besides if these people only consult the royal college of heraldry, the yellow color is very noble, like red and sky blue! these are always typical colors on coats of arms.. pwera gaba na pod ning magpaka-aron ingnon oi.

hahaahah.

^^ maong wala silay pakabana, kay lain man ang ilang priority sama ani:



hayyy mao jud. unya, nagpataka lang pod ning uban. ang yellow nga color harkens to part of the Spanish standard (red and yellow), dili about being weak. besides if these people only consult the royal college of heraldry, the yellow color is very noble, like red and sky blue! these are always typical colors on coats of arms.. pwera gaba na pod ning magpaka-aron ingnon oi.

hahaahah.

basin inigkahuman anang tunnel sa plaza independencia, duna nyay mga horror stories .... para sa mga seryoso bahin sa mga lubong, aduna koy article diri in pdf format, kung interesado mong mobasa ingna lang ko.

Burial Goods in the Philippines: An Attempt to Quantify Prestige Values
by Grace BARRETTO-TESORO
Southeast Asian Studies, Vol. 41, No. 3, December 2003

basin inigkahuman anang tunnel sa plaza independencia, duna nyay mga horror stories .... para sa mga seryoso bahin sa mga lubong, aduna koy article diri in pdf format, kung interesado mong mobasa ingna lang ko.

Burial Goods in the Philippines: An Attempt to Quantify Prestige Values
by Grace BARRETTO-TESORO
Southeast Asian Studies, Vol. 41, No. 3, December 2003

Church in Pardo, Cebu City

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_travel/elpardo01.jpg

Church in Pardo, Cebu City

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_travel/elpardo01.jpg

basin inigkahuman anang tunnel sa plaza independencia, duna nyay mga horror stories .... para sa mga seryoso bahin sa mga lubong, aduna koy article diri in pdf format, kung interesado mong mobasa ingna lang ko.

Burial Goods in the Philippines: An Attempt to Quantify Prestige Values
by Grace BARRETTO-TESORO
Southeast Asian Studies, Vol. 41, No. 3, December 2003


I've downloaded the file. Why is it that gold has a lesser prestige value compared with tin + copper (bronze)?

basin inigkahuman anang tunnel sa plaza independencia, duna nyay mga horror stories .... para sa mga seryoso bahin sa mga lubong, aduna koy article diri in pdf format, kung interesado mong mobasa ingna lang ko.

Burial Goods in the Philippines: An Attempt to Quantify Prestige Values
by Grace BARRETTO-TESORO
Southeast Asian Studies, Vol. 41, No. 3, December 2003


I've downloaded the file. Why is it that gold has a lesser prestige value compared with tin + copper (bronze)?

Church in Pardo, Cebu City

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_travel/elpardo01.jpg

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

Church in Pardo, Cebu City

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_travel/elpardo01.jpg

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

I've downloaded the file. Why is it that gold has a lesser prestige value compared with tin + copper (bronze)?

basin pangitaon ang tin ug copper niadtong panahona (kay wala pay atlas mining) ... basin si @archeologue naay ikatubag ani ...

I've downloaded the file. Why is it that gold has a lesser prestige value compared with tin + copper (bronze)?

basin pangitaon ang tin ug copper niadtong panahona (kay wala pay atlas mining) ... basin si @archeologue naay ikatubag ani ...

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

akong theory mao nga older the better (kay basin kapili pod na nila giusab-usab ilang simbahan); ania ang tuig sa pagkatukod sa mga parokya:

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla
1857 Alegria
1858 San Fernando
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes
1862 Borbon
1863 Toledo City
1863 San Francisco, Camotes
1863 Compostela
1864 San Remegio
1864 Cordova
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City
1871 Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob
1881 Alcantara
1881 Ronda
1885 Asturias
1890 Alcoy
1891 Santa Fe
1891 Bato, Samboan
1898 Santander
1898 Tudela, Camotes

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

akong theory mao nga older the better (kay basin kapili pod na nila giusab-usab ilang simbahan); ania ang tuig sa pagkatukod sa mga parokya:

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla
1857 Alegria
1858 San Fernando
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes
1862 Borbon
1863 Toledo City
1863 San Francisco, Camotes
1863 Compostela
1864 San Remegio
1864 Cordova
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City
1871 Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob
1881 Alcantara
1881 Ronda
1885 Asturias
1890 Alcoy
1891 Santa Fe
1891 Bato, Samboan
1898 Santander
1898 Tudela, Camotes

basin pangitaon ang tin ug copper niadtong panahona (kay wala pay atlas mining) ... basin si @archeologue naay ikatubag ani ...

sakto ka @gee. copper and tin cannot be placer mined unlike gold. all you have to do is go to the river and pan for gold.

our ancestors' sources for bronze were the gongs and other items brought in from malaysia and china. our ancestors melted them down and recycled them once they became kaput para magamit pa sa laing paagi.

basin pangitaon ang tin ug copper niadtong panahona (kay wala pay atlas mining) ... basin si @archeologue naay ikatubag ani ...

sakto ka @gee. copper and tin cannot be placer mined unlike gold. all you have to do is go to the river and pan for gold.

our ancestors' sources for bronze were the gongs and other items brought in from malaysia and china. our ancestors melted them down and recycled them once they became kaput para magamit pa sa laing paagi.

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

There were more people in the south compared to the north then although Bantayan is an exception. Bantayan became the first parish in Cebu because there were more people in the island than in mainland Cebu.

Bai LordCarnal
Maayo ka nag post ka anang picture sa simbahan sa pardo. Didto ko nagtuyok sa entiro Bohol atong May. One thing I noticed, in most towns, coastal and iterior, dagko kaayo ang simbahan. Daghan sad ang gagmay-gagmay na mga lungsod na ang pinakadako nga building mao ang simbahan. Agi'g joke nako sa driver sa van nga among gi-abangan, akong gi-ingnan na, ka wa say pu-angod ining mga pari bisan pobre ang lungsod sige lang pangayo ug amot para patukod ug dagko'ng simbahan. Meant as a joke and not intended to offend any catholics. Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai

There were more people in the south compared to the north then although Bantayan is an exception. Bantayan became the first parish in Cebu because there were more people in the island than in mainland Cebu.

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

Bai LordCarnal
Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai


Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.

Aside from Medellin and Bogo, I do not think the north has fertile lands at all.

More importantly, the rugged terrain from Catmon up to Borbon and Tabuelan etc. may have dsicouraged the fat friars from building huge churches up north.

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

Bai LordCarnal
Anyway, I am also curious ngano mas daghan man nindot na simbahan sa south sa cebu kay sa norte. Huna-huna-on ang pilipinas sa panahon sa katsila, agricultural man unta. Mas daghan maayong yuta sa norte, ang south bato-on. Sakto ba ko sa paghuna-huna na kung richer ang community mas daghan ang amot mas dako sad unta ang simbahan. AGAIN this NOT meant to offend anyone but more of needing more information. Hope you can be of help. Salamat bai


Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.

Aside from Medellin and Bogo, I do not think the north has fertile lands at all.

More importantly, the rugged terrain from Catmon up to Borbon and Tabuelan etc. may have dsicouraged the fat friars from building huge churches up north.

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

^^

i have noticed the spanish coat of arms on the following churches: oslob, cathedral, dalaguete??, what were the other churches bearing the seal?

^^

i have noticed the spanish coat of arms on the following churches: oslob, cathedral, dalaguete??, what were the other churches bearing the seal?

^^ Its true. You can read various records that states that it was partially funded only by the towns people. Funds mostly came from the Spanish Crown and the funds of the parish priests (some of them came from rich families too).

Hurray for the artifact finds by the way! :D Have you also heard about the artifacts that they found why digging around Intramuros, Manila? They recently also found a pre-Hispanic writings around a jar. I hope that this will be more of a priority in Cebu than the Metro system for now. It's a national treasure indeed! Unta wala nay problema sa mga kawatan. Multohon unta ni sila sa mga kalag! :lol:

^^ Its true. You can read various records that states that it was partially funded only by the towns people. Funds mostly came from the Spanish Crown and the funds of the parish priests (some of them came from rich families too).

Hurray for the artifact finds by the way! :D Have you also heard about the artifacts that they found why digging around Intramuros, Manila? They recently also found a pre-Hispanic writings around a jar. I hope that this will be more of a priority in Cebu than the Metro system for now. It's a national treasure indeed! Unta wala nay problema sa mga kawatan. Multohon unta ni sila sa mga kalag! :lol:

By Jobers Bersales (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/opinion/view/20081016-166755/The-gold-mask-of-Plaza-Independencia)
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 18:17:00 10/16/2008

On the first day of monitoring excavation activities at the Plaza Independencia, last Monday alone, a very important treasure that Cebuanos can very well be proud of was recovered: a death mask made of hastily etched thin gold sheets. A second one, or just a piece of it (one covering the eyes) was also recovered in the same location. These are vital proofs of the wealth of pre-Hispanic Cebuanos and the burial practices they carried out for their dearly departed.

The death mask is exactly as the Jesuit Pedro Chirino described in his “Relaciones de las Islas Filipinas” (published in Rome in 1600), where he wrote that, to Bisayans who could afford it, gold was pounded into a thin sheet when a person died. It was then cut to size and etched with decorations. One piece would cover the eyes, another, the nose, and still another, the mouth.

To date, there is only one gold death mask recorded in the annals of Philippine archaeology: that of the Oton Gold Mask recovered in the pre-Hispanic port settlement of Katagman (now San Antonio) in Oton, Iloilo in 1973. It is a National Cultural Treasure (NCT), like the Boljoon Church, Cebu’s only NCT. Is it not far down the road when this mask too will perhaps be declared a second NCT for Cebu?

There are some antique collectors around who boast of their so-called marvelous collections of gold, including these masks. Unfortunately for these people who have arrogated the heritage of all Filipinos unto themselves for their personal vanities, theirs have no unassailable proof whatsoever (what archaeologists call “provenance”) that will allow those collections to withstand the scrutiny of science now as well as in the future.

Here at last is the genuine proof of the possibilities by which to imagine the pre-Spanish past so well described by early missionaries but very little seen in terms of archaeological evidence.

Here at last is the ultimate vindication that the need to monitor this subway project should have been done right when this project began.

Here at last is proof to run after those who knowingly abetted the illicit removal and sale of untold treasures that lay hidden in the plaza as the subway excavation progressed last year and this year.

These excavations for the final third of the subway in the area of Plaza Independencia went into full swing last Monday. A team from the National Museum and the University of San Carlos were around to finally begin monitoring the progress of work. I am proud that this column helped usher this monitoring work when I wrote about the massive looting at the plaza that was going on under the very noses of those whose responsibility it was to ensure that the city’s cultural heritage is protected and conserved.

There is still time to make amends. I urge local city officials and the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission as well as the City Parks and Playgrounds Commission to run after those who abetted this illicit trade in ceramics and gold jewelry as the subway project proceeded. All they have to do is talk to the workers I talked with since Monday while we were carefully removing artifacts and burials amidst the constant drone of backhoes. They told me of how richer the finds were in the middle section of the excavation, of how a gray-haired old man waited outside for artifacts to be sold to him.

If nothing is done regarding this rape of the city’s heritage, then I leave it to history to judge us all.

By Jobers Bersales (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/opinion/view/20081016-166755/The-gold-mask-of-Plaza-Independencia)
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 18:17:00 10/16/2008

On the first day of monitoring excavation activities at the Plaza Independencia, last Monday alone, a very important treasure that Cebuanos can very well be proud of was recovered: a death mask made of hastily etched thin gold sheets. A second one, or just a piece of it (one covering the eyes) was also recovered in the same location. These are vital proofs of the wealth of pre-Hispanic Cebuanos and the burial practices they carried out for their dearly departed.

The death mask is exactly as the Jesuit Pedro Chirino described in his “Relaciones de las Islas Filipinas” (published in Rome in 1600), where he wrote that, to Bisayans who could afford it, gold was pounded into a thin sheet when a person died. It was then cut to size and etched with decorations. One piece would cover the eyes, another, the nose, and still another, the mouth.

To date, there is only one gold death mask recorded in the annals of Philippine archaeology: that of the Oton Gold Mask recovered in the pre-Hispanic port settlement of Katagman (now San Antonio) in Oton, Iloilo in 1973. It is a National Cultural Treasure (NCT), like the Boljoon Church, Cebu’s only NCT. Is it not far down the road when this mask too will perhaps be declared a second NCT for Cebu?

There are some antique collectors around who boast of their so-called marvelous collections of gold, including these masks. Unfortunately for these people who have arrogated the heritage of all Filipinos unto themselves for their personal vanities, theirs have no unassailable proof whatsoever (what archaeologists call “provenance”) that will allow those collections to withstand the scrutiny of science now as well as in the future.

Here at last is the genuine proof of the possibilities by which to imagine the pre-Spanish past so well described by early missionaries but very little seen in terms of archaeological evidence.

Here at last is the ultimate vindication that the need to monitor this subway project should have been done right when this project began.

Here at last is proof to run after those who knowingly abetted the illicit removal and sale of untold treasures that lay hidden in the plaza as the subway excavation progressed last year and this year.

These excavations for the final third of the subway in the area of Plaza Independencia went into full swing last Monday. A team from the National Museum and the University of San Carlos were around to finally begin monitoring the progress of work. I am proud that this column helped usher this monitoring work when I wrote about the massive looting at the plaza that was going on under the very noses of those whose responsibility it was to ensure that the city’s cultural heritage is protected and conserved.

There is still time to make amends. I urge local city officials and the Cultural and Historical Affairs Commission as well as the City Parks and Playgrounds Commission to run after those who abetted this illicit trade in ceramics and gold jewelry as the subway project proceeded. All they have to do is talk to the workers I talked with since Monday while we were carefully removing artifacts and burials amidst the constant drone of backhoes. They told me of how richer the finds were in the middle section of the excavation, of how a gray-haired old man waited outside for artifacts to be sold to him.

If nothing is done regarding this rape of the city’s heritage, then I leave it to history to judge us all.

Cebu City, Philippines (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/news/view/20081015-166509/Pre-Spanish-death-mask-dug-up) - Archaeologists were able to unearth a “death mask” and other evidence of pre-Spanish Cebu settlers under a tunnel being constructed in Cebu City.

They also excavated what could be the remains of a local chieftain and other items considered the “most significant artifacts” so far in the construction site of a subway tunnel outside Plaza Independencia. The tunnel is part of the South Road Properties development.

“We found a death mask of a chieftain or head of a tribe and some pre-Spanish ceramic trade ware,” said Boomboom Miano, Fort San Pedro Museum curator.

The three-piece mask, which is made of very thin gold, was discovered on Monday night.

One piece is used to cover the eye. The other piece was placed on the nose and the third piece covered the mouth.

The carat or purity of the gold pieces still have to be determined by experts, said Miano but “for the National Museum, all cultural items are priceless.”

“It was the practice of early Filipinos especially in the Visayas and Mindanao to put a death mask on the chieftain. He is the one who is powerful so when he dies he would also be buried with ceramics because, according to many accounts, there is a possibility of being accepted in heaven,” he said.

“This is one of the most significant finds in Cebu, so far,” Miano added.

The skeletal remains and burial items could help “determine the people's level of wealth or power in society.”

The chieftain's identity is not yet known. He was buried with large ceramic items, the gold mask and a dagger.

“Based on history, we have chieftains like Humabon, Lapu-Lapu and Tupas,” Miano said.

Working on the site with Miano are Nida Cuevas, researcher of the National Museum, and Jojo Bersales, head of the Archeology Department of the University of San Carlos (USC). Bersales was deputized by the National Museum to oversee the project.

Miano said their priority is to understand the ancient practices of early settlers in Cebu rather than identifying the chieftain they unearthed.

Cuevas, meanwhile, said the trade ware ceramics found on site were also important.

With them “you can determine the century and age of the people who lived here. We could know the origin of the items, whether they were from Vietnam, Thailand or China. These (items) indicate how old the place is,” she said.

“We would be able to know, as we continue the diggings. If they were not rich then they would not put big ceramics that we found here,” Cuevas said.

Miano said experts assisted by USC's Department of Sociology and Anthropology would continue retrieving artifacts to document and analyze them.

“In the future, we will be able to showcase pre-Spanish practices of the Cebuanos and show that we were already doing trade with other countries even before the Spaniards came,” he said.

Cebu City, Philippines (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/news/view/20081015-166509/Pre-Spanish-death-mask-dug-up) - Archaeologists were able to unearth a “death mask” and other evidence of pre-Spanish Cebu settlers under a tunnel being constructed in Cebu City.

They also excavated what could be the remains of a local chieftain and other items considered the “most significant artifacts” so far in the construction site of a subway tunnel outside Plaza Independencia. The tunnel is part of the South Road Properties development.

“We found a death mask of a chieftain or head of a tribe and some pre-Spanish ceramic trade ware,” said Boomboom Miano, Fort San Pedro Museum curator.

The three-piece mask, which is made of very thin gold, was discovered on Monday night.

One piece is used to cover the eye. The other piece was placed on the nose and the third piece covered the mouth.

The carat or purity of the gold pieces still have to be determined by experts, said Miano but “for the National Museum, all cultural items are priceless.”

“It was the practice of early Filipinos especially in the Visayas and Mindanao to put a death mask on the chieftain. He is the one who is powerful so when he dies he would also be buried with ceramics because, according to many accounts, there is a possibility of being accepted in heaven,” he said.

“This is one of the most significant finds in Cebu, so far,” Miano added.

The skeletal remains and burial items could help “determine the people's level of wealth or power in society.”

The chieftain's identity is not yet known. He was buried with large ceramic items, the gold mask and a dagger.

“Based on history, we have chieftains like Humabon, Lapu-Lapu and Tupas,” Miano said.

Working on the site with Miano are Nida Cuevas, researcher of the National Museum, and Jojo Bersales, head of the Archeology Department of the University of San Carlos (USC). Bersales was deputized by the National Museum to oversee the project.

Miano said their priority is to understand the ancient practices of early settlers in Cebu rather than identifying the chieftain they unearthed.

Cuevas, meanwhile, said the trade ware ceramics found on site were also important.

With them “you can determine the century and age of the people who lived here. We could know the origin of the items, whether they were from Vietnam, Thailand or China. These (items) indicate how old the place is,” she said.

“We would be able to know, as we continue the diggings. If they were not rich then they would not put big ceramics that we found here,” Cuevas said.

Miano said experts assisted by USC's Department of Sociology and Anthropology would continue retrieving artifacts to document and analyze them.

“In the future, we will be able to showcase pre-Spanish practices of the Cebuanos and show that we were already doing trade with other countries even before the Spaniards came,” he said.

There were more people in the south compared to the north then although Bantayan is an exception. Bantayan became the first parish in Cebu because there were more people in the island than in mainland Cebu.

Salamat sa inputs. I always had that impression na masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan. Anogon kaayo na kanang watch tower sa Santa Fe, tapad sa kota beach wa kaayo ma taga-ig dako'ng pagtagad.

There were more people in the south compared to the north then although Bantayan is an exception. Bantayan became the first parish in Cebu because there were more people in the island than in mainland Cebu.

Salamat sa inputs. I always had that impression na masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan. Anogon kaayo na kanang watch tower sa Santa Fe, tapad sa kota beach wa kaayo ma taga-ig dako'ng pagtagad.

Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.

Aside from Medellin and Bogo, I do not think the north has fertile lands at all.

More importantly, the rugged terrain from Catmon up to Borbon and Tabuelan etc. may have dsicouraged the fat friars from building huge churches up north.

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

Joe
Thanks for the info. Sure am glad you had invited me dinhi. Mas sayon kuha ug info on specific topic kay sa magresearch sa library :).

Ang imong article sa newspaper masabot nato na naa diay sad simblans of a "civi;izrd cebuano" sa wa pay katsila. Unya wa sad siguro puro nagbahag as described by Magellan's men. Dramatic and romanticized kanang lapu lapu sa capitol nga nagbahag, pero I think ang imong finds should say something about the pre hispanic cebuano.

Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.

Aside from Medellin and Bogo, I do not think the north has fertile lands at all.

More importantly, the rugged terrain from Catmon up to Borbon and Tabuelan etc. may have dsicouraged the fat friars from building huge churches up north.

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

Joe
Thanks for the info. Sure am glad you had invited me dinhi. Mas sayon kuha ug info on specific topic kay sa magresearch sa library :).

Ang imong article sa newspaper masabot nato na naa diay sad simblans of a "civi;izrd cebuano" sa wa pay katsila. Unya wa sad siguro puro nagbahag as described by Magellan's men. Dramatic and romanticized kanang lapu lapu sa capitol nga nagbahag, pero I think ang imong finds should say something about the pre hispanic cebuano.

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

dapat noon pa yan nila ginawa. bakit wala yatang studies o wala man lang nakapag-isip na hukayin ang parteng yan for archeology, mas malaki siguro ang kikitain ng pamahalaan ng cebu kung ginawa yan na tourist spot gaya ng ginawa ng mga chinese sa terracotta army ng chin dynasty. sa china hanggang ngayon hinahanap pa rin nila ang mga nalalaman nilang lumang settlements dahil malaking karangalan at malaking pera na rin kapag naideclare ang site na UNESCO heritage site. para sa china kasi hindi lang ito upang may ipagmamalaki ang kanilang lahi kundi ito'y isang paraan na rin upang kumita sila ng pera sa pamamagitan ng turismo.


by the way, nakasinina diay tong mga nakit-an sa plaza? apan init man pud diri sa pinas so possible pud na nakabahag ra sila. pero mayo nalang pud nakabahag si lapulapu aron makit-an pud nila ang ka-macho niya. :D

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

dapat noon pa yan nila ginawa. bakit wala yatang studies o wala man lang nakapag-isip na hukayin ang parteng yan for archeology, mas malaki siguro ang kikitain ng pamahalaan ng cebu kung ginawa yan na tourist spot gaya ng ginawa ng mga chinese sa terracotta army ng chin dynasty. sa china hanggang ngayon hinahanap pa rin nila ang mga nalalaman nilang lumang settlements dahil malaking karangalan at malaking pera na rin kapag naideclare ang site na UNESCO heritage site. para sa china kasi hindi lang ito upang may ipagmamalaki ang kanilang lahi kundi ito'y isang paraan na rin upang kumita sila ng pera sa pamamagitan ng turismo.


by the way, nakasinina diay tong mga nakit-an sa plaza? apan init man pud diri sa pinas so possible pud na nakabahag ra sila. pero mayo nalang pud nakabahag si lapulapu aron makit-an pud nila ang ka-macho niya. :D

akong theory mao nga older the better (kay basin kapili pod na nila giusab-usab ilang simbahan); ania ang tuig sa pagkatukod sa mga parokya:

1850 Bogo

1858 Daanbantayan


Salamat sa list. Just one point lang, your list states Bogo became a parokya ahead of daan bantayan. Abi nako nag una ang daan bantayan, abi sad nako ang bogo was broke off as a parokya from daan bantayan

akong theory mao nga older the better (kay basin kapili pod na nila giusab-usab ilang simbahan); ania ang tuig sa pagkatukod sa mga parokya:

1850 Bogo

1858 Daanbantayan


Salamat sa list. Just one point lang, your list states Bogo became a parokya ahead of daan bantayan. Abi nako nag una ang daan bantayan, abi sad nako ang bogo was broke off as a parokya from daan bantayan

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

besides, most churches were built largely with funds from the King of Spain...thus, the coat of arms of Spain that is usually placed atop the main door of the church.

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

^^ Hurray for the artifact finds by the way! :D Have you also heard about the artifacts that they found why digging around Intramuros, Manila? They recently also found a pre-Hispanic writings around a jar. I hope that this will be more of a priority in Cebu than the Metro system for now. It's a national treasure indeed! Unta wala nay problema sa mga kawatan. Multohon unta ni sila sa mga kalag! :lol:

Hurray, indeed, Animo. But here is one for Manila: no gold death masks have ever been found in pre-Hispanic sites around Intramuros area. I wonder why. The Sta. Ana Church finds also do not mention any gold death masks. Perhaps this was really just a practice common to the beliefs of the Bisayas. Ergo, Tagalogs and Bisayans may have had different ways of preparing the dead for the afterlife.

I am familiar with the discovery of the jar but I've been told it is a Hispanization of the Baybayin. My understanding is that it has Spanish words spelled using the Baybayin or native Tagalog script. Which means it is not pre-Hispanic and is probably datable to the Doctrina Cristiana published with the Tagalog translation in baybayin.

enlighten me please if I'm mistaken.

:)

^^ Hurray for the artifact finds by the way! :D Have you also heard about the artifacts that they found why digging around Intramuros, Manila? They recently also found a pre-Hispanic writings around a jar. I hope that this will be more of a priority in Cebu than the Metro system for now. It's a national treasure indeed! Unta wala nay problema sa mga kawatan. Multohon unta ni sila sa mga kalag! :lol:

Hurray, indeed, Animo. But here is one for Manila: no gold death masks have ever been found in pre-Hispanic sites around Intramuros area. I wonder why. The Sta. Ana Church finds also do not mention any gold death masks. Perhaps this was really just a practice common to the beliefs of the Bisayas. Ergo, Tagalogs and Bisayans may have had different ways of preparing the dead for the afterlife.

I am familiar with the discovery of the jar but I've been told it is a Hispanization of the Baybayin. My understanding is that it has Spanish words spelled using the Baybayin or native Tagalog script. Which means it is not pre-Hispanic and is probably datable to the Doctrina Cristiana published with the Tagalog translation in baybayin.

enlighten me please if I'm mistaken.

:)

Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.



recommended reading:

Ramon Echevarria
Rediscovery in Southern Cebu
Cebu City : Historical Conservation Society, 1974.
200 p.

Boy, cotton was abundant in the south, it was an important commodity for exchange even before the coming of the Spaniards. There are also more rivers in the south, which allow for better movement of goods. The south also is not usually hit by typhoons.



recommended reading:

Ramon Echevarria
Rediscovery in Southern Cebu
Cebu City : Historical Conservation Society, 1974.
200 p.

dapat noon pa yan nila ginawa. bakit wala yatang studies o wala man lang nakapag-isip na hukayin ang parteng yan for archeology, mas malaki siguro ang kikitain ng pamahalaan ng cebu kung ginawa yan na tourist spot gaya ng ginawa ng mga chinese sa terracotta army ng chin dynasty. sa china hanggang ngayon hinahanap pa rin nila ang mga nalalaman nilang lumang settlements dahil malaking karangalan at malaking pera na rin kapag naideclare ang site na UNESCO heritage site. para sa china kasi hindi lang ito upang may ipagmamalaki ang kanilang lahi kundi ito'y isang paraan na rin upang kumita sila ng pera sa pamamagitan ng turismo.


by the way, nakasinina diay tong mga nakit-an sa plaza? apan init man pud diri sa pinas so possible pud na nakabahag ra sila. pero mayo nalang pud nakabahag si lapulapu aron makit-an pud nila ang ka-macho niya. :D


Dugay na nga daghang studies sa Plaza Independencia and Fort San Pedro as well as nearby sites before this---mostly done incidentally by USC (1967, 1971, 1984, etc.)


In 1966-67, Fr. Karl Hutterer and Rosa C.P. Tenazas excavated Magallanes and Lapu-lapu Streets after PLDT personnel unearthed burials while laying cables or something like that. The excavation yielded both so-called (but debatable) Iron Age burials beneath a layer of other burials accompanied by Vietnamese and Thai ceramics.


In 1971, Marcelino Maceda excavated sections of Fort San Pedro which yielded Chinese and Thai ceramics.


In 1983-84, Masao Nishimura excavated, among others, Plaza Independencia but yielded sterile results. His excavation units did not find any burials. Nida Cuevas, who is leading the NM team now at the plaza, was one of her assistants at the time (she was still studying anthropology at USC then). She recalls nga wala jud daw nakita sa mga units except tradeware sherds).


Then in 2000, National Museum was asked to do an assessment of the plaza prior to the subway construction planning. The assessment yielded burials but very few grave goods---almost nil.


In 2006, a private firm called ACECI conducted the definitive salvage archaeology which would have covered the whole stretch of the part that would be excavated for the subway later.

Apparently the much promised equipment (a small backhoe) never arrived and the money ran out before they could reach the entire stretch of the planned subway because they had to resort to hiring manual labor.

But they did find burials although all they got in terms of ceramics were two small Vietnamese bowls, almost like sake cups.


In part NM is to blame for not heeding my calls early on to monitor the site, which was also one of the recommendations of the 2006 report. This much they admitted to me.


Now some history on my part: Before the start of the subway excavations, sometime in June 2007, I already met with Bimbo Fernandez, the city administrator, right at the excavation site while they were still burying piles.

I remember the Japanese contractor whom we met at the meeting showed us many of the sherds that they kept as well as some human bone fragments.


Wa man jud ko padad-i og deputization papers sa NM so wa jud koy right mo-monitor..


But from time to time, I kept on calling NM to get a monitor to see what was going on kay sirado ang site, fenced in.


IMO, there is some dynamics going on inside NM mao wa jud madayon ang monitor until my column appeared four or five weeks ago (due to SanValente's report nga naay nakapalit daw og gold nga rooster).


I must thank SanValente for sounding the alarm. Napukaw pod ko oi.

Knowing my affiliation with the province which has, of late, an uneasy relationship with the city, I really felt awkward having to call attention to what was going on kay basin masulti nga biased lang ko.


Unbeknownst to me, the very day my column appeared in Septmber, the NM director, Corazon Alvina was in CEbu and apparently she must have read my article because the following day, Noel Cuevas, asst. director, arrived at USC to confer with me and Malou SAmson, museum curator, to begin the deputization process and work on monitoring the progress of the project.


And so the saga continues...next week another batch of NM people will arrive, friends of mine in the Boljoon excavations, to do the accessioning and cataloguing of artifacts.

dapat noon pa yan nila ginawa. bakit wala yatang studies o wala man lang nakapag-isip na hukayin ang parteng yan for archeology, mas malaki siguro ang kikitain ng pamahalaan ng cebu kung ginawa yan na tourist spot gaya ng ginawa ng mga chinese sa terracotta army ng chin dynasty. sa china hanggang ngayon hinahanap pa rin nila ang mga nalalaman nilang lumang settlements dahil malaking karangalan at malaking pera na rin kapag naideclare ang site na UNESCO heritage site. para sa china kasi hindi lang ito upang may ipagmamalaki ang kanilang lahi kundi ito'y isang paraan na rin upang kumita sila ng pera sa pamamagitan ng turismo.


by the way, nakasinina diay tong mga nakit-an sa plaza? apan init man pud diri sa pinas so possible pud na nakabahag ra sila. pero mayo nalang pud nakabahag si lapulapu aron makit-an pud nila ang ka-macho niya. :D


Dugay na nga daghang studies sa Plaza Independencia and Fort San Pedro as well as nearby sites before this---mostly done incidentally by USC (1967, 1971, 1984, etc.)


In 1966-67, Fr. Karl Hutterer and Rosa C.P. Tenazas excavated Magallanes and Lapu-lapu Streets after PLDT personnel unearthed burials while laying cables or something like that. The excavation yielded both so-called (but debatable) Iron Age burials beneath a layer of other burials accompanied by Vietnamese and Thai ceramics.


In 1971, Marcelino Maceda excavated sections of Fort San Pedro which yielded Chinese and Thai ceramics.


In 1983-84, Masao Nishimura excavated, among others, Plaza Independencia but yielded sterile results. His excavation units did not find any burials. Nida Cuevas, who is leading the NM team now at the plaza, was one of her assistants at the time (she was still studying anthropology at USC then). She recalls nga wala jud daw nakita sa mga units except tradeware sherds).


Then in 2000, National Museum was asked to do an assessment of the plaza prior to the subway construction planning. The assessment yielded burials but very few grave goods---almost nil.


In 2006, a private firm called ACECI conducted the definitive salvage archaeology which would have covered the whole stretch of the part that would be excavated for the subway later.

Apparently the much promised equipment (a small backhoe) never arrived and the money ran out before they could reach the entire stretch of the planned subway because they had to resort to hiring manual labor.

But they did find burials although all they got in terms of ceramics were two small Vietnamese bowls, almost like sake cups.


In part NM is to blame for not heeding my calls early on to monitor the site, which was also one of the recommendations of the 2006 report. This much they admitted to me.


Now some history on my part: Before the start of the subway excavations, sometime in June 2007, I already met with Bimbo Fernandez, the city administrator, right at the excavation site while they were still burying piles.

I remember the Japanese contractor whom we met at the meeting showed us many of the sherds that they kept as well as some human bone fragments.


Wa man jud ko padad-i og deputization papers sa NM so wa jud koy right mo-monitor..


But from time to time, I kept on calling NM to get a monitor to see what was going on kay sirado ang site, fenced in.


IMO, there is some dynamics going on inside NM mao wa jud madayon ang monitor until my column appeared four or five weeks ago (due to SanValente's report nga naay nakapalit daw og gold nga rooster).


I must thank SanValente for sounding the alarm. Napukaw pod ko oi.

Knowing my affiliation with the province which has, of late, an uneasy relationship with the city, I really felt awkward having to call attention to what was going on kay basin masulti nga biased lang ko.


Unbeknownst to me, the very day my column appeared in Septmber, the NM director, Corazon Alvina was in CEbu and apparently she must have read my article because the following day, Noel Cuevas, asst. director, arrived at USC to confer with me and Malou SAmson, museum curator, to begin the deputization process and work on monitoring the progress of the project.


And so the saga continues...next week another batch of NM people will arrive, friends of mine in the Boljoon excavations, to do the accessioning and cataloguing of artifacts.

Salamat sa list. Just one point lang, your list states Bogo became a parokya ahead of daan bantayan. Abi nako nag una ang daan bantayan, abi sad nako ang bogo was broke off as a parokya from daan bantayan

kining listahan gibase niining sityo:
http://www.cbcponline.net/cebu/html/parishes.html

Salamat sa list. Just one point lang, your list states Bogo became a parokya ahead of daan bantayan. Abi nako nag una ang daan bantayan, abi sad nako ang bogo was broke off as a parokya from daan bantayan

kining listahan gibase niining sityo:
http://www.cbcponline.net/cebu/html/parishes.html

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

bay, kung tan-awon nato ang listahan sa mga parokya, espanyol ang mga pangalan sa mga lungsod kung diin gitukod ang mga parokya sa second half sa 1800s, basin nagpasabot ni nga new town, new parish o new parish, new town

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen- from Nuestra Señora del Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla - a town in the Spanish province of Cuenca
1857 Alegria - a flamenco dance
1858 San Fernando - name of saint
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes - from Nuestra Senora del Pilar
1862 Borbon - name of the royal family
1863 Toledo City - capital city of the Spanish province of Toledo
1863 San Francisco, Camotes - name of saint
1863 Compostela - from Santiago de Compostela, a city in the province of La Coruña
1864 San Remegio - name of saint
1864 Cordova - from Cordoba - capital city of the Spanish province of Cordoba
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City - formerly a town, now a part of Madrid
1871 Consolacion - from Nuestra Senora de Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob - Caceres is the capital city of the province of Caceres
1881 Alcantara - a town in the Spanish province of Caceres
1881 Ronda - is a small town in the Andalusian province of Malaga
1885 Asturias - former Spanish Kingdom situated on the Spanish north coast facing the Cantabrian Sea
1890 Alcoy - town in the northern part of the province of Alicante, Spain
1891 Santa Fe - name of saint
1891 San Sebastian (Bato, Samboan) - name of saint
1898 Santander - is the capital of the Spanish region of Cantabria
1898 Tudela, Camotes - is a town in the region of Navarra

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

bay, kung tan-awon nato ang listahan sa mga parokya, espanyol ang mga pangalan sa mga lungsod kung diin gitukod ang mga parokya sa second half sa 1800s, basin nagpasabot ni nga new town, new parish o new parish, new town

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen- from Nuestra Señora del Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla - a town in the Spanish province of Cuenca
1857 Alegria - a flamenco dance
1858 San Fernando - name of saint
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes - from Nuestra Senora del Pilar
1862 Borbon - name of the royal family
1863 Toledo City - capital city of the Spanish province of Toledo
1863 San Francisco, Camotes - name of saint
1863 Compostela - from Santiago de Compostela, a city in the province of La Coruña
1864 San Remegio - name of saint
1864 Cordova - from Cordoba - capital city of the Spanish province of Cordoba
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City - formerly a town, now a part of Madrid
1871 Consolacion - from Nuestra Senora de Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob - Caceres is the capital city of the province of Caceres
1881 Alcantara - a town in the Spanish province of Caceres
1881 Ronda - is a small town in the Andalusian province of Malaga
1885 Asturias - former Spanish Kingdom situated on the Spanish north coast facing the Cantabrian Sea
1890 Alcoy - town in the northern part of the province of Alicante, Spain
1891 Santa Fe - name of saint
1891 San Sebastian (Bato, Samboan) - name of saint
1898 Santander - is the capital of the Spanish region of Cantabria
1898 Tudela, Camotes - is a town in the region of Navarra

Wow..It looks similar to the gold earring of Boljoon.

Could there be a single manufacturer/supplier of this gold earring before including the death masks?



more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

Wow..It looks similar to the gold earring of Boljoon.

Could there be a single manufacturer/supplier of this gold earring before including the death masks?



more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib.jpg

Recoletos church as identified by sine.anima.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib.jpg

Recoletos church as identified by sine.anima.

Salamat sa inputs. I always had that impression na masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan. Anogon kaayo na kanang watch tower sa Santa Fe, tapad sa kota beach wa kaayo ma taga-ig dako'ng pagtagad.

Yes, masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan and the friars did not have to scale mountains to collect the natives in a reduccion because they were mostly concentrated in a place called Hilingigay.

Regarding your other question posted somewhere here, Bogo was the first to break off from Bantayan, then followed by Daan Bantayan. If you wish to see the original Bishop's decrees, the canonical record pertaining to them is now at the Cathedral Museum of Cebu.

Bantayan is probably the only matrix that was able to keep records of parishes that were hewn from it.

Salamat sa inputs. I always had that impression na masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan. Anogon kaayo na kanang watch tower sa Santa Fe, tapad sa kota beach wa kaayo ma taga-ig dako'ng pagtagad.

Yes, masdaghan ang tawo sa Bantayan and the friars did not have to scale mountains to collect the natives in a reduccion because they were mostly concentrated in a place called Hilingigay.

Regarding your other question posted somewhere here, Bogo was the first to break off from Bantayan, then followed by Daan Bantayan. If you wish to see the original Bishop's decrees, the canonical record pertaining to them is now at the Cathedral Museum of Cebu.

Bantayan is probably the only matrix that was able to keep records of parishes that were hewn from it.

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

I would like to answer this question. Before (say 17th - 18th centuries), the parishes established were more or less considered towns. This is true with Bantayan, San Nicolas, Carcar, etc.

Later in the 19th century, a town had to be established first before becoming a parish. Why is this so? Well, a town has to be established first because town officials were later tasked to start the construction of makeshift churches. When these makeshift churches were in place, the civil government will now issue a decree pertaining to the establishment of a parish. Months later or even a year or two, the Bishop will then supplement the decree with his own decree, declaring the full establishment of the parish. In this last act, the Bishop will then appoint the parish priest who will take care of the spiritual welfare of the residents of the town.

Examples:

October 4, 1863 - The parish of San Remigio is organized separate from Bogo through a Superior decree. The new parish was placed under the protection of San Juan Nepomuceno by the following Bishop’s decree on March 23, 1864.

June 25, 1869 - Consolacion separated from Mandaue as an independent parish through a Superior decree. This was confirmed on February 21, 1871. Consolacion was placed under the patronage of San Narciso.

(Data from Breve Reseña by Redondo y Sendino, 1886)

Joe
Puslan man naa na ta ani ngutana pa djud ko lain. Pushing my luck further, wa bitaw bayad :ohno: Does it follow ba na when a new parish is established it would also be the establishment of a new town in the spanish philippines?

I would like to answer this question. Before (say 17th - 18th centuries), the parishes established were more or less considered towns. This is true with Bantayan, San Nicolas, Carcar, etc.

Later in the 19th century, a town had to be established first before becoming a parish. Why is this so? Well, a town has to be established first because town officials were later tasked to start the construction of makeshift churches. When these makeshift churches were in place, the civil government will now issue a decree pertaining to the establishment of a parish. Months later or even a year or two, the Bishop will then supplement the decree with his own decree, declaring the full establishment of the parish. In this last act, the Bishop will then appoint the parish priest who will take care of the spiritual welfare of the residents of the town.

Examples:

October 4, 1863 - The parish of San Remigio is organized separate from Bogo through a Superior decree. The new parish was placed under the protection of San Juan Nepomuceno by the following Bishop’s decree on March 23, 1864.

June 25, 1869 - Consolacion separated from Mandaue as an independent parish through a Superior decree. This was confirmed on February 21, 1871. Consolacion was placed under the patronage of San Narciso.

(Data from Breve Reseña by Redondo y Sendino, 1886)

bay, kung tan-awon nato ang listahan sa mga parokya, espanyol ang mga pangalan sa mga lungsod kung diin gitukod ang mga parokya sa second half sa 1800s, basin nagpasabot ni nga new town, new parish o new parish, new town

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen- from Nuestra Señora del Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla - a town in the Spanish province of Cuenca
1857 Alegria - a flamenco dance
1858 San Fernando - name of saint
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes - from Nuestra Senora del Pilar
1862 Borbon - name of the royal family
1863 Toledo City - capital city of the Spanish province of Toledo
1863 San Francisco, Camotes - name of saint
1863 Compostela - from Santiago de Compostela, a city in the province of La Coruña
1864 San Remegio - name of saint
1864 Cordova - from Cordoba - capital city of the Spanish province of Cordoba
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City - formerly a town, now a part of Madrid
1871 Consolacion - from Nuestra Senora de Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob - Caceres is the capital city of the province of Caceres
1881 Alcantara - a town in the Spanish province of Caceres
1881 Ronda - is a small town in the Andalusian province of Malaga
1885 Asturias - former Spanish Kingdom situated on the Spanish north coast facing the Cantabrian Sea
1890 Alcoy - town in the northern part of the province of Alicante, Spain
1891 Santa Fe - name of saint
1891 San Sebastian (Bato, Samboan) - name of saint
1898 Santander - is the capital of the Spanish region of Cantabria
1898 Tudela, Camotes - is a town in the region of Navarra


Good job padre. Nindot ang data sa names. Thanks.

bay, kung tan-awon nato ang listahan sa mga parokya, espanyol ang mga pangalan sa mga lungsod kung diin gitukod ang mga parokya sa second half sa 1800s, basin nagpasabot ni nga new town, new parish o new parish, new town

1580 Bantayan
1584 San Nicolas, Cebu City
1598 Cebu Cathedral
1599 Carcar
1606 Boljoon
1614 Barili
1638 Mandaue City
1711 Dalaguete
1733 Argao
1742 Danao City
1745 Lapulapu City
1784 Samboan
1825 Badian
1829 Naga
1830 Sibonga
1832 Sogod
1834 Malabuyoc
1835 Catmon
1836 Talisay
1845 Liloan
1847 Oslob
1847 Poro, Camotes
1847 Ginatilan
1850 Bogo
1850 Pinamunghan
1851 Tabogon
1851 Carmen- from Nuestra Señora del Carmen
1852 Moalboal
1854 Dumanjug
1857 Balamban
1857 Tuburan
1857 Minglanilla - a town in the Spanish province of Cuenca
1857 Alegria - a flamenco dance
1858 San Fernando - name of saint
1858 Daanbantayan
1859 Pilar, Camotes - from Nuestra Senora del Pilar
1862 Borbon - name of the royal family
1863 Toledo City - capital city of the Spanish province of Toledo
1863 San Francisco, Camotes - name of saint
1863 Compostela - from Santiago de Compostela, a city in the province of La Coruña
1864 San Remegio - name of saint
1864 Cordova - from Cordoba - capital city of the Spanish province of Cordoba
1866 El Pardo, Cebu City - formerly a town, now a part of Madrid
1871 Consolacion - from Nuestra Senora de Consolacion
1877 Nueva Caceres, Oslob - Caceres is the capital city of the province of Caceres
1881 Alcantara - a town in the Spanish province of Caceres
1881 Ronda - is a small town in the Andalusian province of Malaga
1885 Asturias - former Spanish Kingdom situated on the Spanish north coast facing the Cantabrian Sea
1890 Alcoy - town in the northern part of the province of Alicante, Spain
1891 Santa Fe - name of saint
1891 San Sebastian (Bato, Samboan) - name of saint
1898 Santander - is the capital of the Spanish region of Cantabria
1898 Tudela, Camotes - is a town in the region of Navarra


Good job padre. Nindot ang data sa names. Thanks.

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

more gold from the plaza:

we found a fragment of another death mask made of gold. this brings to three the death masks.

below is a set of gold earrings on a probable male individual who was buried with plenty of ceramics including a huge, planggana-sized celadon so huge the back hoe could not break it...well it just chipped off part of the rim.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldearrings.jpg


more news:

the National Museum is set to declare the entire Plaza Independencia and its immediate environs a National Cultural Treasure. If approved, then this will be Cebu's second NCT, Boljoon Church being the first.

It will have implications on the construction of the subway. hmmm.

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

The data indicate that the burials are towards the inner portion of the Plaza, not towards Fort SanPedro. I am baffled by a large swath of land (encircled in white), about 1/8 of the plaza parallel to (and bordering) the Fort that appears either to have been once a moat filled in or a reclaimed area judging from the mish-mash on the soil matrix.

A photo will help illustrate this point:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/eveningatsite.jpg

The area encircled in white is sterile, no burials, no artifacts (well a few bottles of American vintage). The one encircled in yellow is where the burials were found. This photo was taken at 8:45 p.m. the other night. The pylon (or pilon?) where Nida Cuevas of NM is scraping nearby actually hit the mark, and serves as the exact border line between the sterile (to her left) and fertile (to her right) areas in terms of burials and cultural material




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/twobackhoes.jpg

The two backhoes are working at exactly the points above. The one on the left is actually working right on the side where the burials are found, spaced far apart usually in pairs, indicating that these were probably buried beneath houses (encircled in yellow[/COLOR]). Ergo, not a burial ground, not a pre-hispanic cemetery.


The one on the right (encircled in red) is near to the Fort and is almost devoid of cultural material. This photo was taken on the third day, when almost 3/4 of the site had been excavated already.

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

The data indicate that the burials are towards the inner portion of the Plaza, not towards Fort SanPedro. I am baffled by a large swath of land (encircled in white), about 1/8 of the plaza parallel to (and bordering) the Fort that appears either to have been once a moat filled in or a reclaimed area judging from the mish-mash on the soil matrix.

A photo will help illustrate this point:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/eveningatsite.jpg

The area encircled in white is sterile, no burials, no artifacts (well a few bottles of American vintage). The one encircled in yellow is where the burials were found. This photo was taken at 8:45 p.m. the other night. The pylon (or pilon?) where Nida Cuevas of NM is scraping nearby actually hit the mark, and serves as the exact border line between the sterile (to her left) and fertile (to her right) areas in terms of burials and cultural material




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/twobackhoes.jpg

The two backhoes are working at exactly the points above. The one on the left is actually working right on the side where the burials are found, spaced far apart usually in pairs, indicating that these were probably buried beneath houses (encircled in yellow[/COLOR]). Ergo, not a burial ground, not a pre-hispanic cemetery.


The one on the right (encircled in red) is near to the Fort and is almost devoid of cultural material. This photo was taken on the third day, when almost 3/4 of the site had been excavated already.

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

bitaw sa, when i keep on seeing these artifacts it gives me pilomotor reflex.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Pastilan, napa gyud siguro'y daghan ini diha sa Fort San Pedro. The declaration must be done asap. Cheers to that! :cheers:

bitaw sa, when i keep on seeing these artifacts it gives me pilomotor reflex.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Wow..It looks similar to the gold earring of Boljoon.

Could there be a single manufacturer/supplier of this gold earring before including the death masks?

the one in Boljoon is much larger than these. and the luster is darker, which means the mixture of copper and gold are different.

i do not think these were "manufactured" in the sense of a mass produced item. i would rather posit the idea that there were craftsmen who would do this. the hypothesis is that these craftsmen were descended from Indian jewellers who reached Sri Lanka and then on to Thailand, Malysia and then towards the Sunda shelf up to the archipelago.

This explains the appearance of the Laguna copperplate with "sanskrit" type script. This would mean that the people of island southeast asia were all over the place.


There was no malaysia, indonesia or philippines at the time, of course, just islands trading with each other, people moving places, bringing their craft with them and teaching their assistants who eventually moved on to other places.

The same can be said of the alojeros of Bulacan which you can find today in as far away as Tawi-tawi and Zmaboanga and Cebu too. Their assistants are Cebuanos, Jolojanos and Zamboanguenos who eventually practice the craft and start on their own.

Wow..It looks similar to the gold earring of Boljoon.

Could there be a single manufacturer/supplier of this gold earring before including the death masks?

the one in Boljoon is much larger than these. and the luster is darker, which means the mixture of copper and gold are different.

i do not think these were "manufactured" in the sense of a mass produced item. i would rather posit the idea that there were craftsmen who would do this. the hypothesis is that these craftsmen were descended from Indian jewellers who reached Sri Lanka and then on to Thailand, Malysia and then towards the Sunda shelf up to the archipelago.

This explains the appearance of the Laguna copperplate with "sanskrit" type script. This would mean that the people of island southeast asia were all over the place.


There was no malaysia, indonesia or philippines at the time, of course, just islands trading with each other, people moving places, bringing their craft with them and teaching their assistants who eventually moved on to other places.

The same can be said of the alojeros of Bulacan which you can find today in as far away as Tawi-tawi and Zmaboanga and Cebu too. Their assistants are Cebuanos, Jolojanos and Zamboanguenos who eventually practice the craft and start on their own.

bitaw sa, when i keep on seeing these artifacts it gives me pilomotor reflex.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

bitaw sa, when i keep on seeing these artifacts it gives me pilomotor reflex.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

the one in Boljoon is much larger than these. and the luster is darker, which means the mixture of copper and gold are different.

i do not think these were "manufactured" in the sense of a mass produced item. i would rather posit the idea that there were craftsmen who would do this. the hypothesis is that these craftsmen were descended from Indian jewellers who reached Sri Lanka and then on to Thailand, Malysia and then towards the Sunda shelf up to the archipelago.

This explains the appearance of the Laguna copperplate with "sanskrit" type script. This would mean that the people of island southeast asia were all over the place.


There was no malaysia, indonesia or philippines at the time, of course, just islands trading with each other, people moving places, bringing their craft with them and teaching their assistants who eventually moved on to other places.

The same can be said of the alojeros of Bulacan which you can find today in as far away as Tawi-tawi and Zmaboanga and Cebu too. Their assistants are Cebuanos, Jolojanos and Zamboanguenos who eventually practice the craft and start on their own.

very cool...now im even more in love of history...:)

the one in Boljoon is much larger than these. and the luster is darker, which means the mixture of copper and gold are different.

i do not think these were "manufactured" in the sense of a mass produced item. i would rather posit the idea that there were craftsmen who would do this. the hypothesis is that these craftsmen were descended from Indian jewellers who reached Sri Lanka and then on to Thailand, Malysia and then towards the Sunda shelf up to the archipelago.

This explains the appearance of the Laguna copperplate with "sanskrit" type script. This would mean that the people of island southeast asia were all over the place.


There was no malaysia, indonesia or philippines at the time, of course, just islands trading with each other, people moving places, bringing their craft with them and teaching their assistants who eventually moved on to other places.

The same can be said of the alojeros of Bulacan which you can find today in as far away as Tawi-tawi and Zmaboanga and Cebu too. Their assistants are Cebuanos, Jolojanos and Zamboanguenos who eventually practice the craft and start on their own.

very cool...now im even more in love of history...:)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib.jpg

Recoletos church as identified by sine.anima.


I hope they would recreate the freedom park into a green park again. and still accomodate those flower vendors at the same time.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/overtureph/iloilolib.jpg

Recoletos church as identified by sine.anima.


I hope they would recreate the freedom park into a green park again. and still accomodate those flower vendors at the same time.

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

How big is the tunnel? Is it made of concrete or stone? I heard that one tunnel leads to the aduana (Malacañan sa Sugbu).

..

Bai NoldCarnal, the tunnel which we used to clean is not outside the fort, it's inside those thick walls. Imagine this, the fort has 3 corners, and there are
thick walls connecting it. the tunnel is inside those connecting walls and the
entrance as far as I can remember is below the ramp that goes up to the
top of the walls. There's a building in that area now.

What we experienced with my squad was cleaning up the chamber about
10 meters from the entrance and that would be facing the post office now.
The width of the tunnel or whatever you call it (basta agia-anan) is about
1.5 m and the chamber is quite small (3 x 3m) but there seems to be a
stone steps going down which we were not allowed to go on cleaning. The
clean-up was 2 days until we reached the chamber, mostly coral stones
from the ceiling which collapsed.

With that, we concluded that the tunnel must be going around those walls,
and it seems to be that it's underground kay mo na-og pa man mi ug
mga pila ka steps from ground level.

The question is how many people know about this? What else were found
inside? Could it be that the tunnel was only on that particular area only?

The Fort San Pedro is really a very interesting one. I even heard stories
that there are tunnels connecting the Fort to the Cathedral then to Sto. Nino
and back to the Fort. The subway project will prove if this is true becaise
it will pass thru the plaza.

You seem to like adventure ha... join archaeologue and you'll enjoy...
mga indiana jones he he he

Btw, Bai Archaeologue, kabalo na ko sa tag-iya sa agencia sa carbon where
some of the items were sold. Not actually gi prenda but the lady owner
buys it. Let's keep our fingers crossed, I hope wala gi tunaw tong manok
nga bulawan... tried looking sa net if there are any rooster-like design
sa pre-hispanic asia but can't find it.. but am not sure if ang mga tawo
kaniadto kahibawo na mo design ug manok unya bulawan ang material..

Text me if naa ka sa site, basi maka du-aw pod ko nimo on the job.. pwede
pod padalhan ka ug snacks. am just a walking distance away... he he he

How big is the tunnel? Is it made of concrete or stone? I heard that one tunnel leads to the aduana (Malacañan sa Sugbu).

..

Bai NoldCarnal, the tunnel which we used to clean is not outside the fort, it's inside those thick walls. Imagine this, the fort has 3 corners, and there are
thick walls connecting it. the tunnel is inside those connecting walls and the
entrance as far as I can remember is below the ramp that goes up to the
top of the walls. There's a building in that area now.

What we experienced with my squad was cleaning up the chamber about
10 meters from the entrance and that would be facing the post office now.
The width of the tunnel or whatever you call it (basta agia-anan) is about
1.5 m and the chamber is quite small (3 x 3m) but there seems to be a
stone steps going down which we were not allowed to go on cleaning. The
clean-up was 2 days until we reached the chamber, mostly coral stones
from the ceiling which collapsed.

With that, we concluded that the tunnel must be going around those walls,
and it seems to be that it's underground kay mo na-og pa man mi ug
mga pila ka steps from ground level.

The question is how many people know about this? What else were found
inside? Could it be that the tunnel was only on that particular area only?

The Fort San Pedro is really a very interesting one. I even heard stories
that there are tunnels connecting the Fort to the Cathedral then to Sto. Nino
and back to the Fort. The subway project will prove if this is true becaise
it will pass thru the plaza.

You seem to like adventure ha... join archaeologue and you'll enjoy...
mga indiana jones he he he

Btw, Bai Archaeologue, kabalo na ko sa tag-iya sa agencia sa carbon where
some of the items were sold. Not actually gi prenda but the lady owner
buys it. Let's keep our fingers crossed, I hope wala gi tunaw tong manok
nga bulawan... tried looking sa net if there are any rooster-like design
sa pre-hispanic asia but can't find it.. but am not sure if ang mga tawo
kaniadto kahibawo na mo design ug manok unya bulawan ang material..

Text me if naa ka sa site, basi maka du-aw pod ko nimo on the job.. pwede
pod padalhan ka ug snacks. am just a walking distance away... he he he

^^

Oh.. So those could be the chambers, pretty much like an armory or a storage area for the munitions, etc.

They should open it because it's an additional attraction. Hehe.

Ang_Bantayanon said that there's also a tunnel at the convent of Dalaguete.

^^

Oh.. So those could be the chambers, pretty much like an armory or a storage area for the munitions, etc.

They should open it because it's an additional attraction. Hehe.

Ang_Bantayanon said that there's also a tunnel at the convent of Dalaguete.

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

i don't work for the national museum. i head the department of sociology and anthropology at University of San Carlos. i'm an archaeologist by profession and practice.

if you go back a to heritage walk thread 5, i think you will find some of my work there.

archaeology is cool at times but it can get boring and can be very, very costly.

maybe that explains why there are only less than 20 practicing archaeologists in the philippines. compare this with the 3,000 or so in Indonesia. paet.

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

i don't work for the national museum. i head the department of sociology and anthropology at University of San Carlos. i'm an archaeologist by profession and practice.

if you go back a to heritage walk thread 5, i think you will find some of my work there.

archaeology is cool at times but it can get boring and can be very, very costly.

maybe that explains why there are only less than 20 practicing archaeologists in the philippines. compare this with the 3,000 or so in Indonesia. paet.

Btw, Bai Archaeologue, kabalo na ko sa tag-iya sa agencia sa carbon where
some of the items were sold. Not actually gi prenda but the lady owner
buys it. Let's keep our fingers crossed, I hope wala gi tunaw tong manok
nga bulawan... tried looking sa net if there are any rooster-like design
sa pre-hispanic asia but can't find it.. but am not sure if ang mga tawo
kaniadto kahibawo na mo design ug manok unya bulawan ang material..

Text me if naa ka sa site, basi maka du-aw pod ko nimo on the job.. pwede
pod padalhan ka ug snacks. am just a walking distance away... he he he

i am always there every day since last monday. i was also there at fort san pedro today. wala na ang excavations. tapos na for now. the backhoes are now digging beyond the cultural layer so wala na mi didto sa site.

we are now at the makeshift field lab, cleaning the artifacts, and documenting them (accessioning, cataloguing---even gluing them together).

i might go there tomorrow morning until the afternoon.

next week another team from National Museum is arriving, ako team that helped me excavate Boljoon church this year and last year. but taman ra ko tuesday. larga ko for our national anthropological conference wednsday till sunday.

see you with the snacks then.

re the agencia: i think this is the same woman that bought the gold items from the looted sites i visited in Bantayan last year.

haha.

Btw, Bai Archaeologue, kabalo na ko sa tag-iya sa agencia sa carbon where
some of the items were sold. Not actually gi prenda but the lady owner
buys it. Let's keep our fingers crossed, I hope wala gi tunaw tong manok
nga bulawan... tried looking sa net if there are any rooster-like design
sa pre-hispanic asia but can't find it.. but am not sure if ang mga tawo
kaniadto kahibawo na mo design ug manok unya bulawan ang material..

Text me if naa ka sa site, basi maka du-aw pod ko nimo on the job.. pwede
pod padalhan ka ug snacks. am just a walking distance away... he he he

i am always there every day since last monday. i was also there at fort san pedro today. wala na ang excavations. tapos na for now. the backhoes are now digging beyond the cultural layer so wala na mi didto sa site.

we are now at the makeshift field lab, cleaning the artifacts, and documenting them (accessioning, cataloguing---even gluing them together).

i might go there tomorrow morning until the afternoon.

next week another team from National Museum is arriving, ako team that helped me excavate Boljoon church this year and last year. but taman ra ko tuesday. larga ko for our national anthropological conference wednsday till sunday.

see you with the snacks then.

re the agencia: i think this is the same woman that bought the gold items from the looted sites i visited in Bantayan last year.

haha.

The Fort San Pedro is really a very interesting one. I even heard stories
that there are tunnels connecting the Fort to the Cathedral then to Sto. Nino
and back to the Fort. The subway project will prove if this is true becaise
it will pass thru the plaza.




Nope, they did not find any tunnel from the fort crossing the plaza.

the network of hallways (not tunnels) within the walls of the fort are but part of its construction, as in all breastkwork fortifications of this kind, i suppose.
one of the entrances is in the comfort room of our makeshift field lab. but it is sealed now.

another is supposed to be in the public toilet of the fort. also sealed.

there were supposed to be dungeons at the fort, where people were imprisoned. i suppose these would be the honeycomb of hallways.

The Fort San Pedro is really a very interesting one. I even heard stories
that there are tunnels connecting the Fort to the Cathedral then to Sto. Nino
and back to the Fort. The subway project will prove if this is true becaise
it will pass thru the plaza.




Nope, they did not find any tunnel from the fort crossing the plaza.

the network of hallways (not tunnels) within the walls of the fort are but part of its construction, as in all breastkwork fortifications of this kind, i suppose.
one of the entrances is in the comfort room of our makeshift field lab. but it is sealed now.

another is supposed to be in the public toilet of the fort. also sealed.

there were supposed to be dungeons at the fort, where people were imprisoned. i suppose these would be the honeycomb of hallways.

^^

Mu adto sad ko ugma ha para maka kaon ko sa snacks... hehehe.. Sunday bitaw..


..

^^

Mu adto sad ko ugma ha para maka kaon ko sa snacks... hehehe.. Sunday bitaw..


..

^^

Mu adto sad ko ugma ha para maka kaon ko sa snacks... hehehe.. Sunday bitaw..


..

heheh...sure...i wanted to text you baya ganiha to help us glue those huge celadon plates nga murag planggana kadak-a...but busy na jud kaayo, wa nay time to text.

^^

Mu adto sad ko ugma ha para maka kaon ko sa snacks... hehehe.. Sunday bitaw..


..

heheh...sure...i wanted to text you baya ganiha to help us glue those huge celadon plates nga murag planggana kadak-a...but busy na jud kaayo, wa nay time to text.

Regarding your other question posted somewhere here, Bogo was the first to break off from Bantayan, then followed by Daan Bantayan. If you wish to see the original Bishop's decrees, the canonical record pertaining to them is now at the Cathedral Museum of Cebu.


Thanks for the correction and the direction. Daghan pa lapses with unsa ako nahibaw-an parte sa norte pero I am slowly getting there

Regarding your other question posted somewhere here, Bogo was the first to break off from Bantayan, then followed by Daan Bantayan. If you wish to see the original Bishop's decrees, the canonical record pertaining to them is now at the Cathedral Museum of Cebu.


Thanks for the correction and the direction. Daghan pa lapses with unsa ako nahibaw-an parte sa norte pero I am slowly getting there

recommended reading:

Ramon Echevarria
Rediscovery in Southern Cebu
Cebu City : Historical Conservation Society, 1974.
200 p.

Gee
Thanks for the direction

recommended reading:

Ramon Echevarria
Rediscovery in Southern Cebu
Cebu City : Historical Conservation Society, 1974.
200 p.

Gee
Thanks for the direction

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

si archaeologue, as far as I am concerned, is cebu's THE MAN in archeology, sociology, humorology and all those ogy's. :master: These past 2 years 2 major finds/digs siya that could add so much information parte sa cebuanos before spain.

Indiana Jones na siya sa Cebu.

JoeB kanang imong nangakit-an, kaluy-an ka djud sa mga kalag ana nila. Mas daghan pa unya ang grasya maabot sa imo. :applause:

cool...bai asa ka associated? working ka sa national museum or something like that? if it is, cool kaayo imong work!:):)

si archaeologue, as far as I am concerned, is cebu's THE MAN in archeology, sociology, humorology and all those ogy's. :master: These past 2 years 2 major finds/digs siya that could add so much information parte sa cebuanos before spain.

Indiana Jones na siya sa Cebu.

JoeB kanang imong nangakit-an, kaluy-an ka djud sa mga kalag ana nila. Mas daghan pa unya ang grasya maabot sa imo. :applause:

^^^^

haha...makapabukad pod kag atay, boy, da. asa na man imo mga postcards? post them here na.

scan them low file lang..mga 80 to 100 kb lang, then save sa photobucket.com...pag naupload na, one of the windows below the photo provides a facility where you can paste them here. use the one marked "Image", automatic na mo 'copy' whne you click on that part. all of you have to do is paste the "copy" here.

^^^^

haha...makapabukad pod kag atay, boy, da. asa na man imo mga postcards? post them here na.

scan them low file lang..mga 80 to 100 kb lang, then save sa photobucket.com...pag naupload na, one of the windows below the photo provides a facility where you can paste them here. use the one marked "Image", automatic na mo 'copy' whne you click on that part. all of you have to do is paste the "copy" here.

i stand corrected regarding the Yuan piece i posted earlier. See below:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg


Above is a Vietnamese powder box superimposed on a page of the book i mentioned in previous posts. This is a 15th-16th century Vietnamese piece.


The archaeologist H. Otley Beyer observed in the 1940s that Vietnamese and Thai ceramics were more common and profuse in Cebu than elsewhere.


What could be the reason? hmmmm...Well, the Viets and Thais filled the gap when a Ming emperor (forgot his name) closed the ports of China to foreign trade right about the time we find Vietnamese ceramics dating to 15th-16th century (1400s-1500s).


Pigafetta wrote about the fact that when they arrived at the port of Sugbu (probably somewhere in Pasil) a Siamese (Thai) trading boat had already docked near them two days before they arrived.


But why these Viet and Thai wares are more pronounced in Cebu than elsewhere in the archipelago is beyond me at the moment. There was something here that these people wanted which they could not get elsewhere. Slaves? hmmm...Gold? hmmmm....Kamunggay? hahahah...

i stand corrected regarding the Yuan piece i posted earlier. See below:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg


Above is a Vietnamese powder box superimposed on a page of the book i mentioned in previous posts. This is a 15th-16th century Vietnamese piece.


The archaeologist H. Otley Beyer observed in the 1940s that Vietnamese and Thai ceramics were more common and profuse in Cebu than elsewhere.


What could be the reason? hmmmm...Well, the Viets and Thais filled the gap when a Ming emperor (forgot his name) closed the ports of China to foreign trade right about the time we find Vietnamese ceramics dating to 15th-16th century (1400s-1500s).


Pigafetta wrote about the fact that when they arrived at the port of Sugbu (probably somewhere in Pasil) a Siamese (Thai) trading boat had already docked near them two days before they arrived.


But why these Viet and Thai wares are more pronounced in Cebu than elsewhere in the archipelago is beyond me at the moment. There was something here that these people wanted which they could not get elsewhere. Slaves? hmmm...Gold? hmmmm....Kamunggay? hahahah...

^^^^

haha...makapabukad pod kag atay, boy, da. asa na man imo mga postcards? post them here na.

scan them low file lang..mga 80 to 100 kb lang, then save sa photobucket.com...pag naupload na, one of the windows below the photo provides a facility where you can paste them here. use the one marked "Image", automatic na mo 'copy' whne you click on that part. all of you have to do is paste the "copy" here.

Hope this works fine. This is an warly 1900s postcard of cebu's railway station
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-railroadstation.jpg

^^^^

haha...makapabukad pod kag atay, boy, da. asa na man imo mga postcards? post them here na.

scan them low file lang..mga 80 to 100 kb lang, then save sa photobucket.com...pag naupload na, one of the windows below the photo provides a facility where you can paste them here. use the one marked "Image", automatic na mo 'copy' whne you click on that part. all of you have to do is paste the "copy" here.

Hope this works fine. This is an warly 1900s postcard of cebu's railway station
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-railroadstation.jpg

daghan man mamalit diha sa carbon og gold.. sinubong as they call it.. as to the golden manok.. if naa pa na ron then it could be named "manok ni nyor pedro" hehe

daghan man mamalit diha sa carbon og gold.. sinubong as they call it.. as to the golden manok.. if naa pa na ron then it could be named "manok ni nyor pedro" hehe

Hope this works fine. This is an warly 1900s postcard of cebu's railway station
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-railroadstation.jpg


Success! now you can post more photos and postcards from your collection.

Asa man ni nga station? ang central station diha from DBP to Elizabeth Mall karon?

Hope this works fine. This is an warly 1900s postcard of cebu's railway station
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-railroadstation.jpg


Success! now you can post more photos and postcards from your collection.

Asa man ni nga station? ang central station diha from DBP to Elizabeth Mall karon?

As promised here are three of the four intact or near-complete earthenware, probably locally made. notice the crftsnmanship despite the export ceramics:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot4.jpg

this one seems to be washed with apog or lime.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot1.jpg

a very beautifulle decorated pot



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot2.jpg

the whorl mark that characterizes the two pots above.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot3.jpg

closeup of the decoration on the body of the pot above.




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot6.jpg

another pot, this time with a red-clay band and some etchings as decoration.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot7.jpg

detail on the band of the pot above. we found a very few fragments with this type of decoration in Boljoon.

As promised here are three of the four intact or near-complete earthenware, probably locally made. notice the crftsnmanship despite the export ceramics:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot4.jpg

this one seems to be washed with apog or lime.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot1.jpg

a very beautifulle decorated pot



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot2.jpg

the whorl mark that characterizes the two pots above.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot3.jpg

closeup of the decoration on the body of the pot above.




http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot6.jpg

another pot, this time with a red-clay band and some etchings as decoration.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/pot7.jpg

detail on the band of the pot above. we found a very few fragments with this type of decoration in Boljoon.

below are the incomplete death mask parts, both eyepieces or half of an eyepiece each:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldeneyes.jpg

below are the incomplete death mask parts, both eyepieces or half of an eyepiece each:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/goldeneyes.jpg

Large washbasin-sized Vietnamese polychromes superimposed on pages of the book "Vietnamese Ceramics" (1999).


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamese.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnmesepolychrome.jpg

Large washbasin-sized Vietnamese polychromes superimposed on pages of the book "Vietnamese Ceramics" (1999).


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamese.jpg



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnmesepolychrome.jpg

here is the vietnamese ewer in a pair of "before and after restoration" photos:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Before restoration.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/ewer.jpg

After the first attempt to restore (work in progress pa).

here is the vietnamese ewer in a pair of "before and after restoration" photos:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Before restoration.



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/ewer.jpg

After the first attempt to restore (work in progress pa).

^^ wow! cant wait to see those artifacts on display.
i visited the museum in fort san pedro last week. i was so dismayed, the place needs a major facelift. it was dimly lit, dusts and cobwebs in the shelves. the great history behind the san diego deserves a much better place.

nex week cathedral museum nasad.

@archaeologue

sir, head diay ka sa SoAn sa USC. amazing! i know magda who is the sole SoAn graduate last march. kmsta na kaha ang bayot?i enjoyed madam Lorylie's class then. she went to ANU for her masters right?

^^ wow! cant wait to see those artifacts on display.
i visited the museum in fort san pedro last week. i was so dismayed, the place needs a major facelift. it was dimly lit, dusts and cobwebs in the shelves. the great history behind the san diego deserves a much better place.

nex week cathedral museum nasad.

@archaeologue

sir, head diay ka sa SoAn sa USC. amazing! i know magda who is the sole SoAn graduate last march. kmsta na kaha ang bayot?i enjoyed madam Lorylie's class then. she went to ANU for her masters right?

^^^^^^



Magda is studying Spanish at Instituto Cervantes right now. Yes, Lorylie took her Master's at ANU.

Nothing amazing actually about heading the department. hahahaah...mas amazing ang kalisud mangita og kwarta to get backto Boljoon for the final round of excavations.

^^^^^^



Magda is studying Spanish at Instituto Cervantes right now. Yes, Lorylie took her Master's at ANU.

Nothing amazing actually about heading the department. hahahaah...mas amazing ang kalisud mangita og kwarta to get backto Boljoon for the final round of excavations.

Success! now you can post more photos and postcards from your collection.

Asa man ni nga station? ang central station diha from DBP to Elizabeth Mall karon?

JoeB
Hibalo na ko pag post ug picture pero mas interesting na ang imoha. At this time the more people interested sa plaza finds mas daghan and dako ang awareness. Whatever few pictures I have of old cebu can wait.

Also, I understand sobra ka busy ka ron, kato atong picture meeting maka hulat ra sad to kung maluag luag ka na sa imong digs.

Success! now you can post more photos and postcards from your collection.

Asa man ni nga station? ang central station diha from DBP to Elizabeth Mall karon?

JoeB
Hibalo na ko pag post ug picture pero mas interesting na ang imoha. At this time the more people interested sa plaza finds mas daghan and dako ang awareness. Whatever few pictures I have of old cebu can wait.

Also, I understand sobra ka busy ka ron, kato atong picture meeting maka hulat ra sad to kung maluag luag ka na sa imong digs.

^^

ok @TagaBogo, thanks for the patience. one of these days makapahuway ra jud ko heheeh.

but the photos you have are marvelous especially your collection of pre-war buses.

^^

ok @TagaBogo, thanks for the patience. one of these days makapahuway ra jud ko heheeh.

but the photos you have are marvelous especially your collection of pre-war buses.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

^^

ok @TagaBogo, thanks for the patience. one of these days makapahuway ra jud ko heheeh.

but the photos you have are marvelous especially your collection of pre-war buses.

JoeB
Just to indulge you lang pero the rest unya na lang siguro

You have seen this naman, the 1934 bus for Daan Bantayan (date on plate number)

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusDaanBantayancirca1934.jpg

This is a 1935 bus for Cebu City, it is common for buses, even today to just use Cebu without the City, for buses for cebu city. As with the Daan Bantayan bus the back rests are made of wooven uway. The 35 date is just under the last number, number 2, of the plate number. Ang drayber ug ang kondoktor nag amerikana, though I guess the norms of that time, pero hastang ineta. Kini dyud mga handed down customs na dili appropriate sa ato-a. Naa another bus picture na ang drayber ug kondoktor nag tie, wa noon amerkana. Mag tie sa tropics, nag bahag man gani si lapu-lapu aron mabugnawan :nuts:

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusCebucirca1935.jpg

^^

ok @TagaBogo, thanks for the patience. one of these days makapahuway ra jud ko heheeh.

but the photos you have are marvelous especially your collection of pre-war buses.

JoeB
Just to indulge you lang pero the rest unya na lang siguro

You have seen this naman, the 1934 bus for Daan Bantayan (date on plate number)

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusDaanBantayancirca1934.jpg

This is a 1935 bus for Cebu City, it is common for buses, even today to just use Cebu without the City, for buses for cebu city. As with the Daan Bantayan bus the back rests are made of wooven uway. The 35 date is just under the last number, number 2, of the plate number. Ang drayber ug ang kondoktor nag amerikana, though I guess the norms of that time, pero hastang ineta. Kini dyud mga handed down customs na dili appropriate sa ato-a. Naa another bus picture na ang drayber ug kondoktor nag tie, wa noon amerkana. Mag tie sa tropics, nag bahag man gani si lapu-lapu aron mabugnawan :nuts:

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusCebucirca1935.jpg

^^^


thanks for these marvelous photos, Boy. keep 'em coming. Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?

^^^


thanks for these marvelous photos, Boy. keep 'em coming. Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.


The artifacts will be eventually displayed at the Fort San Pedro Museum, a branch of the National Museum. Since the MOA with the city to renew the contract for the museum is up for renegotiation, dili pa na ma-display immediately but plans are afoot to rehabilitate the museum to the tune of something like p4 million, courtesy of NM.


The artifacts will not be brought to Manila. In fact, NM has just finished making arrangements with USC, through the University Museum, for the artifacts to be stored there temporarily.

So do not worry. NM stockrooms are already full in Manila. These will not be brought there at all.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.


The artifacts will be eventually displayed at the Fort San Pedro Museum, a branch of the National Museum. Since the MOA with the city to renew the contract for the museum is up for renegotiation, dili pa na ma-display immediately but plans are afoot to rehabilitate the museum to the tune of something like p4 million, courtesy of NM.


The artifacts will not be brought to Manila. In fact, NM has just finished making arrangements with USC, through the University Museum, for the artifacts to be stored there temporarily.

So do not worry. NM stockrooms are already full in Manila. These will not be brought there at all.

^^^


thanks for these marvelous photos, Boy. keep 'em coming. Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?

"Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?" diha nakoykoyan sa plaza independencia ingon pa sa taga fredom park :naughty:

^^^


thanks for these marvelous photos, Boy. keep 'em coming. Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?

"Asa man ni nimo nahikaplagan?" diha nakoykoyan sa plaza independencia ingon pa sa taga fredom park :naughty:

JoeB
Just to indulge you lang pero the rest unya na lang siguro

You have seen this naman, the 1934 bus for Daan Bantayan (date on plate number)

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusDaanBantayancirca1934.jpg

This is a 1935 bus for Cebu City, it is common for buses, even today to just use Cebu without the City, for buses for cebu city. As with the Daan Bantayan bus the back rests are made of wooven uway. The 35 date is just under the last number, number 2, of the plate number. Ang drayber ug ang kondoktor nag amerikana, though I guess the norms of that time, pero hastang ineta. Kini dyud mga handed down customs na dili appropriate sa ato-a. Naa another bus picture na ang drayber ug kondoktor nag tie, wa noon amerkana. Mag tie sa tropics, nag bahag man gani si lapu-lapu aron mabugnawan :nuts:

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusCebucirca1935.jpg

:lol: kataw-anan bitaw kung ngano mag-americana man nga haskang inita man dri sa ato. binuang manang ilaha. pero mas mukatawa siguro ka kung mahibaoan nimo na ang sinina ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina.

JoeB
Just to indulge you lang pero the rest unya na lang siguro

You have seen this naman, the 1934 bus for Daan Bantayan (date on plate number)

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusDaanBantayancirca1934.jpg

This is a 1935 bus for Cebu City, it is common for buses, even today to just use Cebu without the City, for buses for cebu city. As with the Daan Bantayan bus the back rests are made of wooven uway. The 35 date is just under the last number, number 2, of the plate number. Ang drayber ug ang kondoktor nag amerikana, though I guess the norms of that time, pero hastang ineta. Kini dyud mga handed down customs na dili appropriate sa ato-a. Naa another bus picture na ang drayber ug kondoktor nag tie, wa noon amerkana. Mag tie sa tropics, nag bahag man gani si lapu-lapu aron mabugnawan :nuts:

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-autobusCebucirca1935.jpg

:lol: kataw-anan bitaw kung ngano mag-americana man nga haskang inita man dri sa ato. binuang manang ilaha. pero mas mukatawa siguro ka kung mahibaoan nimo na ang sinina ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina.

:lol: kataw-anan bitaw kung ngano mag-americana man nga haskang inita man dri sa ato. binuang manang ilaha. pero mas mukatawa siguro ka kung mahibaoan nimo na ang sinina ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina.

"ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina" Way labot ang rape. Barato lang pa djud ang TIDE scrubber adtong panahuna :dizzy:. Hasta sad ang maid puede pa i-prenda sa ginikanan. as collateral sa otang. Tanawa ang picture sa mga babaye nga taga cebu di ba hasta man lakaw naa pa gihapon kuyog maid, child labor.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-churchgoers.jpg

:lol: kataw-anan bitaw kung ngano mag-americana man nga haskang inita man dri sa ato. binuang manang ilaha. pero mas mukatawa siguro ka kung mahibaoan nimo na ang sinina ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina.

"ni maria clara kay haskang bagaa. pirting daghanag sapaw-sapaw pa gyud. ngano kaha? aron dili sila dali ma-rape kay pirti ra bang bug-ata anang ilang mga sinina" Way labot ang rape. Barato lang pa djud ang TIDE scrubber adtong panahuna :dizzy:. Hasta sad ang maid puede pa i-prenda sa ginikanan. as collateral sa otang. Tanawa ang picture sa mga babaye nga taga cebu di ba hasta man lakaw naa pa gihapon kuyog maid, child labor.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/cebu-churchgoers.jpg

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

Amazing and beautiful finds! I guess this would show that we have barely scratch the surface of our past, specially our pre-hispanic past.

more artifacts to boost your pilomotor reflex:


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/sqaurejarlet.jpg

Yuan-period square jarlet superimposed on a page of the book "Chinese and Vietnamese Ceramics found in the Philippines" by Rita Ching Tan, et al (Bookmark, 1986?)



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/yuanpowderbox-1.jpg

Yuan-period covered powder box superimposed on a page of the same book above. Look at the artwork showing some scenery, probably of the kiln site.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/Sawankhalokpowderbox.jpg

Sawankhalok (Thai) jarlet, calcified due to the salty soil matrix, superimposed on a page of the late Roxanna Brown's book "Southeast Asian Ceramics, their Dating and Identification".


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/vietnamesejars.jpg

Bownware jar, Thai guan and Vietnamese jar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/planggana.jpg

Two of the four huge planggana- or washbasin-sized celadons covering the faces of those who had gold death masks---underneath these we found cups and bowls around the head of the inhumed individual.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/moreceramicsbroken.jpg

Ang akong gisayangan. found in the afternoon of the first day. the back hoe did this. a Yuan-period or perhaps Vietnamese copy of a very very rare ewer (spout, handle and bottom still found). I suspect this was part of the burial grave goods of one who had a gold death mask. we found only the eyepiece.



later i will post photos of the marvelous local earthenware craftsmanship of pre-hispanic Cebuanos!!! Abangan!!!

Amazing and beautiful finds! I guess this would show that we have barely scratch the surface of our past, specially our pre-hispanic past.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

Regional Cultural Treasures instead of being National Cultural Treasures?

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

Regional Cultural Treasures instead of being National Cultural Treasures?

si archaeologue, as far as I am concerned, is cebu's THE MAN in archeology, sociology, humorology and all those ogy's. :master: These past 2 years 2 major finds/digs siya that could add so much information parte sa cebuanos before spain.

Indiana Jones na siya sa Cebu.

JoeB kanang imong nangakit-an, kaluy-an ka djud sa mga kalag ana nila. Mas daghan pa unya ang grasya maabot sa imo. :applause:

og katong nangawat gabaan unta?

si archaeologue, as far as I am concerned, is cebu's THE MAN in archeology, sociology, humorology and all those ogy's. :master: These past 2 years 2 major finds/digs siya that could add so much information parte sa cebuanos before spain.

Indiana Jones na siya sa Cebu.

JoeB kanang imong nangakit-an, kaluy-an ka djud sa mga kalag ana nila. Mas daghan pa unya ang grasya maabot sa imo. :applause:

og katong nangawat gabaan unta?

^^
so what do you mean bai? :sly::sly::sly:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^
so what do you mean bai? :sly::sly::sly:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Regional Cultural Treasures instead of being National Cultural Treasures?

Mas bigatin kasi ang NCT. It means it is not just a treasure for the Cebuano people (which I suppose is what an RCT would do) but also for the entire nation.

It is, hence, a treasure everyone can claim to be his or hers as long as s/he is Filipino/a wherever s/he may be in the world.

:banana:

Regional Cultural Treasures instead of being National Cultural Treasures?

Mas bigatin kasi ang NCT. It means it is not just a treasure for the Cebuano people (which I suppose is what an RCT would do) but also for the entire nation.

It is, hence, a treasure everyone can claim to be his or hers as long as s/he is Filipino/a wherever s/he may be in the world.

:banana:

^^
actually sir archaelogue is correct... everything that belongs to filipinos should be considered national...cebuano culture is still a part of filipino culture...its another issue again of who has more right to be called national and regional. :ohno::ohno:

^^
actually sir archaelogue is correct... everything that belongs to filipinos should be considered national...cebuano culture is still a part of filipino culture...its another issue again of who has more right to be called national and regional. :ohno::ohno:

mAiNsTrEaMhunter,

Yes that is right. Actually, there is no Regional Cultural Treasure. It was just a hypothetical case, or implication of labellings for the context below.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

mAiNsTrEaMhunter,

Yes that is right. Actually, there is no Regional Cultural Treasure. It was just a hypothetical case, or implication of labellings for the context below.

asa ni sila na musuem i-display?

di na lang unta na dad-on sa manila unya sa Cebu lang buhaton ang restoration ug pag catalouge sa artifacts, and these should be labelled as cultural treasures of the Cebuano people (since technically when they were deposited in the site, there was no Philippines back then)...a body consisting of scholars that would be responsible for the safekeeping, study, and public display of these cultural treasures should then be created, and rules should be enacted as to the handling of these artifacts.

mAiNsTrEaMhunter,

Yes that is right. Actually, there is no Regional Cultural Treasure. It was just a hypothetical case, or implication of labellings for the context below.

If I may interject, @Pinoy_ako, the perception that artifacts are brought to Manila for safekeeping is very,very real. This is the case for all the excavations I have done. We are required to ship all that we excavate to Manila, be these shells of all sizes, even pebbles, stones, bones, ceramics (whole or sherds). Then they are stored there.

And it gets really difficult to bring them back here: much paperwork and the cost of shipping can be prohibitive.

Consider the Maitum anthropomorphic jars. I understand that what will be displayed in the museum of the province of Sarangani as well as in Maitum itself will be replicas. All the aritfacts are stored at NM.

It is both good and bad. Good, because safety will always be an issue in Saranganani, more so in Maitum. Bad, because the genuine macoy is not right where it should be.

But sometimes, this is the proper way to go, the only way to go.

At other times, there are other options and NM is i suppose taking the option of leaving these artifacts behind. It helps, of course, that the ones they send to Cebu are Cebuano archaeologists now working at NM. It helps ease suspicions and accusations "imperial Manila" coming down to vassal Cebu to get her treasures. lol...:)

mAiNsTrEaMhunter,

Yes that is right. Actually, there is no Regional Cultural Treasure. It was just a hypothetical case, or implication of labellings for the context below.

If I may interject, @Pinoy_ako, the perception that artifacts are brought to Manila for safekeeping is very,very real. This is the case for all the excavations I have done. We are required to ship all that we excavate to Manila, be these shells of all sizes, even pebbles, stones, bones, ceramics (whole or sherds). Then they are stored there.

And it gets really difficult to bring them back here: much paperwork and the cost of shipping can be prohibitive.

Consider the Maitum anthropomorphic jars. I understand that what will be displayed in the museum of the province of Sarangani as well as in Maitum itself will be replicas. All the aritfacts are stored at NM.

It is both good and bad. Good, because safety will always be an issue in Saranganani, more so in Maitum. Bad, because the genuine macoy is not right where it should be.

But sometimes, this is the proper way to go, the only way to go.

At other times, there are other options and NM is i suppose taking the option of leaving these artifacts behind. It helps, of course, that the ones they send to Cebu are Cebuano archaeologists now working at NM. It helps ease suspicions and accusations "imperial Manila" coming down to vassal Cebu to get her treasures. lol...:)

Pride of Place
Casa Escaño sets heritage example in Cebu
By Augusto Villalon
Philippine Daily Inquirer

It is a common dilemma with many families when their house outlives the generations that it has sheltered, reaching the point when for the more recent generations, continuing to live in the same house grows increasingly uncomfortable and difficult. Meanwhile, the surrounding neighborhood falls into inevitable commercialization.

The Jesus Escaño family in Cebu was one of the last holdouts on busy Juana Osmeña Street, staying on well after neighbors constructed low-rise commercial buildings that started to hem in the family’s 50-year-old house. Despite all that, they didn’t want to give up their house.

For the many with the common misunderstanding that anything heritage must be grand and out of the ordinary, the Escaño house disappoints. It is nothing of the sort.

Ancestral? Yes it is absolutely ancestral even if it does not fit into the “bahay na bato” stereotype of ancestral architecture. The low, two-story concrete house built in the plain, unadorned 1950s style that rambles in the center of a large urban garden is no scene-stopper, appearing as everyday stuff if compared to the “balay na tisa” (as the old houses are called in Cebuano).

But in its day, wasn’t the “balay na tisa” pretty much everyday stuff?

Old lifestyle

The house reminds of a Cebuano lifestyle from the recent past before the pace of life accelerated and morphed into the 21st century speed, without too many people taking much notice of the gradual change since the lifestyle of a generation or two ago is an era considered too recent to be consigned to history books. Nevertheless, that old lifestyle is a vanishing life experience certainly worth remembering and recording, and that is what the Escaño house does well.

The house was built in the days when Cebu was really laid back. People came home from work or school for lunch and for a siesta afterwards. Families gathered for dinner in those pre-television days, or relatives and friends would come to visit, and in the case of the Escaño house, to hang out.

Although the structure may not be of a scale to merit National Landmark status, it is where three family generations maintain roots, the home where they anchor their personal history. It also registers vividly in the lives of three Cebuano generations because its doors have been constantly open to the family’s wide circle of friends, which included me in various stages of my life.

Now that the family has finally moved out, the house retains its tradition by still remaining open to people.

Today it is Casa Escaño, a bed-and-breakfast, with Don Merto’s, a fine dining restaurant named after the Escaño patriarch. The dining place is known for laying out one of the best tables in Cebu.

Now totally refurbished, the house continues to maintain the simplicity that it has always had, a reminder of the not too recent pre-globalized Cebuano past when the lifestyle was more leisurely and personal.

Continuing the family tradition of providing guests the same personalized attention that it has always done will, it is hoped, set a trend in Cebu and encourage more families to open up their houses as restaurants and lodgings that can add a new, community-based dimension to the already booming Cebu hospitality and tourism industry.



CASA ESCAÑO
Juana Osmeña Street, Cebu City


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2180542518_ce88f502a4.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2180541634_91a4eabd0b.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2179724739_b0fb3851b6.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2237/2179724283_4745fe972c.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2180515018_ee53fc4f45.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2179748167_90663eec67.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2332/2179722867_a655782755.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2350/2180535968_6d4144674a.jpg?v=0


...in-house resto...Don Merto's
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/2179750897_3edba41ef7.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2353/2180540122_6343cda0af.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2394/2180541438_ea8468c1cc.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2180540524_7d7628d318.jpg?v=0

Pride of Place
Casa Escaño sets heritage example in Cebu
By Augusto Villalon
Philippine Daily Inquirer

It is a common dilemma with many families when their house outlives the generations that it has sheltered, reaching the point when for the more recent generations, continuing to live in the same house grows increasingly uncomfortable and difficult. Meanwhile, the surrounding neighborhood falls into inevitable commercialization.

The Jesus Escaño family in Cebu was one of the last holdouts on busy Juana Osmeña Street, staying on well after neighbors constructed low-rise commercial buildings that started to hem in the family’s 50-year-old house. Despite all that, they didn’t want to give up their house.

For the many with the common misunderstanding that anything heritage must be grand and out of the ordinary, the Escaño house disappoints. It is nothing of the sort.

Ancestral? Yes it is absolutely ancestral even if it does not fit into the “bahay na bato” stereotype of ancestral architecture. The low, two-story concrete house built in the plain, unadorned 1950s style that rambles in the center of a large urban garden is no scene-stopper, appearing as everyday stuff if compared to the “balay na tisa” (as the old houses are called in Cebuano).

But in its day, wasn’t the “balay na tisa” pretty much everyday stuff?

Old lifestyle

The house reminds of a Cebuano lifestyle from the recent past before the pace of life accelerated and morphed into the 21st century speed, without too many people taking much notice of the gradual change since the lifestyle of a generation or two ago is an era considered too recent to be consigned to history books. Nevertheless, that old lifestyle is a vanishing life experience certainly worth remembering and recording, and that is what the Escaño house does well.

The house was built in the days when Cebu was really laid back. People came home from work or school for lunch and for a siesta afterwards. Families gathered for dinner in those pre-television days, or relatives and friends would come to visit, and in the case of the Escaño house, to hang out.

Although the structure may not be of a scale to merit National Landmark status, it is where three family generations maintain roots, the home where they anchor their personal history. It also registers vividly in the lives of three Cebuano generations because its doors have been constantly open to the family’s wide circle of friends, which included me in various stages of my life.

Now that the family has finally moved out, the house retains its tradition by still remaining open to people.

Today it is Casa Escaño, a bed-and-breakfast, with Don Merto’s, a fine dining restaurant named after the Escaño patriarch. The dining place is known for laying out one of the best tables in Cebu.

Now totally refurbished, the house continues to maintain the simplicity that it has always had, a reminder of the not too recent pre-globalized Cebuano past when the lifestyle was more leisurely and personal.

Continuing the family tradition of providing guests the same personalized attention that it has always done will, it is hoped, set a trend in Cebu and encourage more families to open up their houses as restaurants and lodgings that can add a new, community-based dimension to the already booming Cebu hospitality and tourism industry.



CASA ESCAÑO
Juana Osmeña Street, Cebu City


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2180542518_ce88f502a4.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2180541634_91a4eabd0b.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2179724739_b0fb3851b6.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2237/2179724283_4745fe972c.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2180515018_ee53fc4f45.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2179748167_90663eec67.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2332/2179722867_a655782755.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2350/2180535968_6d4144674a.jpg?v=0


...in-house resto...Don Merto's
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/2179750897_3edba41ef7.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2353/2180540122_6343cda0af.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2394/2180541438_ea8468c1cc.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2180540524_7d7628d318.jpg?v=0

If I may interject, @Pinoy_ako, the perception that artifacts are brought to Manila for safekeeping is very,very real. This is the case for all the excavations I have done. We are required to ship all that we excavate to Manila, be these shells of all sizes, even pebbles, stones, bones, ceramics (whole or sherds). Then they are stored there.

And it gets really difficult to bring them back here: much paperwork and the cost of shipping can be prohibitive.

Consider the Maitum anthropomorphic jars. I understand that what will be displayed in the museum of the province of Sarangani as well as in Maitum itself will be replicas. All the aritfacts are stored at NM.

It is both good and bad. Good, because safety will always be an issue in Saranganani, more so in Maitum. Bad, because the genuine macoy is not right where it should be.

But sometimes, this is the proper way to go, the only way to go.

At other times, there are other options and NM is i suppose taking the option of leaving these artifacts behind. It helps, of course, that the ones they send to Cebu are Cebuano archaeologists now working at NM. It helps ease suspicions and accusations "imperial Manila" coming down to vassal Cebu to get her treasures. lol...:)

Well, it is really the idea of the "national" that I am underscoring when I said that.

Your last paragraph verbalized things I can't really say in this thread. LOL.

I am not also in favor of keeping everything in Manila. When Intramuros was destroyed in 1945, previous researchers thought that the history of Philippine painting was lost with it, until pieces from Vigan and of course, Cebu, were studied and these supplied the gaps.

Archaeological artifacts are quite problematic. Even in the National Museum, you'll find the Manunggul jar in three different exhibits ! :lol: I am not sure if the Maitum artifacts we see here (the intact ones) are replicas or not.

Back to the Plaza. Once it is declared a NCT, will the current project be redesigned (is the project wholly or partially in the yellow or white areas of your map) ? Will it be feasible to exhibit some of the artifiacts in situ, subject to the availability of funds ?

If I may interject, @Pinoy_ako, the perception that artifacts are brought to Manila for safekeeping is very,very real. This is the case for all the excavations I have done. We are required to ship all that we excavate to Manila, be these shells of all sizes, even pebbles, stones, bones, ceramics (whole or sherds). Then they are stored there.

And it gets really difficult to bring them back here: much paperwork and the cost of shipping can be prohibitive.

Consider the Maitum anthropomorphic jars. I understand that what will be displayed in the museum of the province of Sarangani as well as in Maitum itself will be replicas. All the aritfacts are stored at NM.

It is both good and bad. Good, because safety will always be an issue in Saranganani, more so in Maitum. Bad, because the genuine macoy is not right where it should be.

But sometimes, this is the proper way to go, the only way to go.

At other times, there are other options and NM is i suppose taking the option of leaving these artifacts behind. It helps, of course, that the ones they send to Cebu are Cebuano archaeologists now working at NM. It helps ease suspicions and accusations "imperial Manila" coming down to vassal Cebu to get her treasures. lol...:)

Well, it is really the idea of the "national" that I am underscoring when I said that.

Your last paragraph verbalized things I can't really say in this thread. LOL.

I am not also in favor of keeping everything in Manila. When Intramuros was destroyed in 1945, previous researchers thought that the history of Philippine painting was lost with it, until pieces from Vigan and of course, Cebu, were studied and these supplied the gaps.

Archaeological artifacts are quite problematic. Even in the National Museum, you'll find the Manunggul jar in three different exhibits ! :lol: I am not sure if the Maitum artifacts we see here (the intact ones) are replicas or not.

Back to the Plaza. Once it is declared a NCT, will the current project be redesigned (is the project wholly or partially in the yellow or white areas of your map) ? Will it be feasible to exhibit some of the artifiacts in situ, subject to the availability of funds ?

^^

That's what I'm thinking too. What will happen to the road tunnel project if Fort San Pedro and its environs are declared as a national cultural treasure?

I remember before that the very main reason why they built the road tunnel was to spare Plaza Independencia because the original plan then was to build a skyway that would pass over the plaza.


...

^^

That's what I'm thinking too. What will happen to the road tunnel project if Fort San Pedro and its environs are declared as a national cultural treasure?

I remember before that the very main reason why they built the road tunnel was to spare Plaza Independencia because the original plan then was to build a skyway that would pass over the plaza.


...

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably seize immediately.

Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

the artifacts that have been recovered have stunned archaeologists who are familiar with the materials coming out of Philippine sites.



"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.

IMO, an NCT will help stop the project for perhaps a month while things go back to the science of archaeology, the costly, painstaking, humidly hot, and systematic kind.


See you all at the site in late January or early February!

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably seize immediately.

Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

the artifacts that have been recovered have stunned archaeologists who are familiar with the materials coming out of Philippine sites.



"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.

IMO, an NCT will help stop the project for perhaps a month while things go back to the science of archaeology, the costly, painstaking, humidly hot, and systematic kind.


See you all at the site in late January or early February!

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably seize immediately.

Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.
!

""Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions"

I had remembered the controversy about some people wanting to tear down century old buildings in Carcar to make way for a road widening.

JoeB, when dusts shall have cleared, I am hoping your work shall have paved way where history and heritage will be given due importance.

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably seize immediately.

Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.
!

""Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions"

I had remembered the controversy about some people wanting to tear down century old buildings in Carcar to make way for a road widening.

JoeB, when dusts shall have cleared, I am hoping your work shall have paved way where history and heritage will be given due importance.

Yap-Sandiego House

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse01.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse03.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse04.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse06.jpg

Yap-Sandiego House

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse01.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse03.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse04.jpg


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s223/arnold_carl/cebu_heritage/museum/yapsandiego/valhouse06.jpg

Check this out - The Philippine Islands- Explorations, History, Missions
Very rare limited edition 55 volume set. Maps, plates.. Item number: 180300053666

Check this out - The Philippine Islands- Explorations, History, Missions
Very rare limited edition 55 volume set. Maps, plates.. Item number: 180300053666

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably cease immediately.



Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

the artifacts that have been recovered have stunned archaeologists who are familiar with the materials coming out of Philippine sites.



"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.

IMO, an NCT will help stop the project for perhaps a month while things go back to the science of archaeology, the costly, painstaking, humidly hot, and systematic kind.


See you all at the site in late January or early February!

If I understand what's happening,:

1. Plaza Independencia was dug up for a road tunnel project
2. In the process, artifacts were unearthed by the equipments of the project
3. Now, it is better to stop the project

Hmmm, so if there was no project, these artifacts would not have been dug up now (even if there were strong suspicions that this is a rich area?) for the patrimony of the nation. Would it have been better then that no road tunnel project been undertaken? What is the track record on having an influence on private development projects in the city that dig up a lot of dirt?

Bacsije, Carcar gave up huge amount of ceramics from burials dug up in the 70s. So much so that the entire first floor of an old house became a warehouse. Field trip groups would go there just to dig for fun. Similar descriptions of the placement of the "platos" were described, under the head, the buttocks, etc with surprise on how long the bones of the skeletons were back then.

^^^^


Hear! Hear! I share your sentiments actually. When i heard the idea of an NCT declaration being broached, I immediately thought that the subway project would probably cease immediately.



Your guess is as good as mine but I do not see archaeology as anti-development. therefore, i would not be surprised if the project is continued but only after a thorough and controlled excavation (not the rapid rescue type) is carried out sometime after Sinulog when the subway project will cross the road that leads to Pier 1.

the artifacts that have been recovered have stunned archaeologists who are familiar with the materials coming out of Philippine sites.



"Never before!" "Very rare!" "Magnificent!" "One of a kind!" are just few of the expressions that you get from among us who have seen the artifacts and the implications they hold: that we may have hit the old enclave of Humabon at last (debatable!); that here at last we have evidence of a chieftainship (not necessarily a chiefdom ha) that has eluded so many archaeologists since time immemorial.

IMO, an NCT will help stop the project for perhaps a month while things go back to the science of archaeology, the costly, painstaking, humidly hot, and systematic kind.


See you all at the site in late January or early February!

If I understand what's happening,:

1. Plaza Independencia was dug up for a road tunnel project
2. In the process, artifacts were unearthed by the equipments of the project
3. Now, it is better to stop the project

Hmmm, so if there was no project, these artifacts would not have been dug up now (even if there were strong suspicions that this is a rich area?) for the patrimony of the nation. Would it have been better then that no road tunnel project been undertaken? What is the track record on having an influence on private development projects in the city that dig up a lot of dirt?

Bacsije, Carcar gave up huge amount of ceramics from burials dug up in the 70s. So much so that the entire first floor of an old house became a warehouse. Field trip groups would go there just to dig for fun. Similar descriptions of the placement of the "platos" were described, under the head, the buttocks, etc with surprise on how long the bones of the skeletons were back then.

Check this out - The Philippine Islands- Explorations, History, Missions
Very rare limited edition 55 volume set. Maps, plates.. Item number: 180300053666

Nindot ta pero WOW $1,000 ang starting, then reserve not met pa. HAAY patulo na lang sa laway sa kaibog

Check this out - The Philippine Islands- Explorations, History, Missions
Very rare limited edition 55 volume set. Maps, plates.. Item number: 180300053666

Nindot ta pero WOW $1,000 ang starting, then reserve not met pa. HAAY patulo na lang sa laway sa kaibog

^^ bai, patad sa ta ug lotto...:lol: i checked the item. However, the seller ships only within US. Paging US relatives..

^^ bai, patad sa ta ug lotto...:lol: i checked the item. However, the seller ships only within US. Paging US relatives..

the philippine islands (so far vol 1-25) is now available in project gutenberg:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/13255

the philippine islands (so far vol 1-25) is now available in project gutenberg:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/13255