Cebú Heritage Watch [Archive] - Page 39

Mercato

February 21st, 2009, 10:42 AM

^^
I just watch History Channel's documentary entitled "Magellan's Lost Fleet", pintados man diay si Lapulapu ug Humabon noh? Why is it that the monument of Lapulapu is not tattoed?

Ce: Managsoon ug mga pariente lagi ta'ng tanan nga Bisaya.. Kay kitang tanan sa una daghan og tattoo wa'a sa kumingking na'ng mga Yakuza karon... :lol: unya kon magligidligid dili mailhan ang buling kay daghan man og tattoo. Na'ay guikan sa Ateneo site...

En: We Bisaya are all related as brothers & one family ages ago... because all of us had the tattoo culture accdg to the explorers... (which makes the roll-roll more fun... :lol:)

http://www.ateneo.edu/offices/mirlab/panublion/islas.html
Islas de los Pintados:
The Visayan Islands

Nestled in the bosom of the Philippines central seas are islands which Spanish conquistadors called Islands of the Painted People, Islas de los Pintados, because of the ancient people's custom of tattooing. Tattoos expressed a person's role and achievement in society. Men tattooed themselves almost totally while women were tattooed only in select parts of their anatomy, like arms. Tattoos served like a piece of clothing, and complemented the simple cut of clothes and jewelry, which the people wore.
Land. This cluster of islands consist of

six large ones–Panay, Negros, Cebu, Bohol, Samar, Leyte;
seven medium–Guimaras, Siquijor, Bantayan, Mactan, Camotes, Biliran, Panglao
and many small ones, some named Maripipi, Capul, Lauang, Batag, Cabilao, Olutayan, and countless unnamed island and isles
The Visayas is situated around 12.5 to 9 degrees latitude north; 121 to 126 longitude. Its climate is tropical and has marked seasons of rain, cool and dry enjoyed by the rest of the Philippines. Its northern islands are within the typhoon path with the island of Samar being buffeted the most, hence its depressed economic condition.

The islands are either of volcanic or marine origin. The islands of Panay and Negros are primarily volcanic, and the lofty volcanoes Mount Kanlaon in Negros Occidental and Mount Talinis near Siaton, Negros Oriental supply not only the energy needs of the island but neighboring islands as well. But Cebu and Bohol are mostly of limestone and fossilized coral giving away their marine origins.

Mercato

February 21st, 2009, 10:42 AM

archaeologue

February 21st, 2009, 12:01 PM

^^ in the past tattoo are also being use to decorate their skin after the battle, sometimes the tattoo act as an accessory to hide the ugly scars mao na butangan nalang ug tattoo kay mas lain man tanawon ang uwat labi na kung dagko kaayo.

I don't think, @Bukid, that you can tattoo on a scar since it is very dead hard tissue. And being tattooed while your wounds are still fresh would also be illogical because you would be exhausted by then and tattoing would only add to your misery.

Wouldn't you, in fact, want to show your grandchildren all your war wounds as evidence of your valor?

William Henry Scott, citing Chirino, Alcina and Sanchez, says that tattoing was a symbol of male valor:

"(T)hey were applied only after a man had performed in battle with fitting courage and, like modern military decorations, they accumulated (over time) with additional feats." (p. 20 of Barangay)

..."Tattoing itself was painful enough to serve as a test of mahood. For this reason, some men who were qualified as warriors postponed the operation until shamed into it."

"The first tattoos a person received were applied to the legs beginning at the ankles and ending at the waist. Chest tattoos which looked like breastplates---less frequently, tattoos in the abdomen---only came after further action in battle; and still later, those on the whole back, widest field for the tattoer's artistry." (p. 21)

"Facial tattoos from ear to chin to eye were restricted to the boldest and toughest warriors."

Were women tattooed also? Yes, but only on their hands (one or both), and the lines were extremely fine, according to Scott, and had the appearance of damask or embroidery!

See the Boxer Codex (1590) illustration of Pintados below:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/scan0013.jpg

These are our tattoo terms:

Batuk or Patik - our general term for tattoo.

Labid - inch-wide lines

Ablay - tattoos on the shoulder

Dubdub - those on the chest up to the throat

Daya-daya (Tagur in Panay) - on the arms

Bangut - the ones made of the face as in a freightening mask, also called Langi or gaping as in a crocodile's jaws or the beak of a bird of prey.

Hinawak/hawak - men who were tattoed below the waist.

Lipong - heroes who were tattoed all over (except beneath the bahag or G-string)

archaeologue

February 21st, 2009, 12:01 PM

archaeologue

February 21st, 2009, 12:09 PM

^^

can i say, Basilica minore del santo nino? :lol::lol::D

it might be because the spaniards were mesmerized by the beauty of the philippine seas and to their surprise the unscrupulously raiding of morros in every inch of spanish town built many watch towers to protect them from the attacks.hehe..:lol::lol:;)

I think the answer is simple: the early missionaries traveled by sea and not overland. the carriage trails in Cebu appeared only after the 1850s, if we go by the national archives records. these early churches were already huge affairs even during the 1650s up.

even if there were carriage trails, strong bridges (not wooden ones that get wshed away during a storm surge or a driving rain) did not even come into the picture of public works in Spanish Philippines until after the 1850s also.

and so the friar wanted to arrive on the visita by sea with the Ermita immediately facing him, not turned on its back. and why would it be turned away from the sea when there is not existing road for it to face?

also, even parishioners or new converts coming to the Ermita or chapel or whatever church it was, had to arrive by sea and depart through it.

this also explains why our modern churches always face the road/street. it would really be weird for a church not to face the main passageway where most of its parishioners will come from. and i've never seen a church nga nagtalikod sa dalan ug nag-atubang sa kahawanan o basakan o bukid ba kaha nga way agianan.

archaeologue

February 21st, 2009, 12:09 PM

Sleepwalker

February 21st, 2009, 01:46 PM

I don't think, @Bukid, that you can tattoo on a scar since it is very dead hard tissue. And being tattooed while your wounds are still fresh would also be illogical because you would be exhausted by then and tattoing would only add to your misery.

Wouldn't you, in fact, want to show your grandchildren all your war wounds as evidence of your valor?

William Henry Scott, citing Chirino, Alcina and Sanchez, says that tattoing was a symbol of male valor:

"(T)hey were applied only after a man had performed in battle with fitting courage and, like modern military decorations, they accumulated (over time) with additional feats." (p. 20 of Barangay)

..."Tattoing itself was painful enough to serve as a test of mahood. For this reason, some men who were qualified as warriors postponed the operation until shamed into it."

"The first tattoos a person received were applied to the legs beginning at the ankles and ending at the waist. Chest tattoos which looked like breastplates---less frequently, tattoos in the abdomen---only came after further action in battle; and still later, those on the whole back, widest field for the tattoer's artistry." (p. 21)

"Facial tattoos from ear to chin to eye were restricted to the boldest and toughest warriors."

Were women tattooed also? Yes, but only on their hands (one or both), and the lines were extremely fine, according to Scott, and had the appearance of damask or embroidery!

See the Boxer Codex (1590) illustration of Pintados below:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/scan0013.jpg

These are our tattoo terms:

Batuk or Patik - our general term for tattoo.

Labid - inch-wide lines

Ablay - tattoos on the shoulder

Dubdub - those on the chest up to the throat

Daya-daya (Tagur in Panay) - on the arms

Bangut - the ones made of the face as in a freightening mask, also called Langi or gaping as in a crocodile's jaws or the beak of a bird of prey.

Hinawak/hawak - men who were tattoed below the waist.

Lipong - heroes who were tattoed all over (except beneath the bahag or G-string)

Very cool tattoo...So, at what point in history did the Pintados stopped the culture of tattoo?

Sleepwalker

February 21st, 2009, 01:46 PM

harveharve

February 21st, 2009, 04:14 PM

harveharve

February 21st, 2009, 04:14 PM

Mercato

February 21st, 2009, 04:24 PM

Very cool tattoo...So, at what point in history did the Pintados stopped the culture of tattoo?Because in both Islam and Christianity (pre Vatican II), tattooing was frowned upon as a pagan practice. I am not sure about post Vatican II if it has been allowed. The subjects of the Sultan of Sulu did not have tattoos. This makes all the Bisayans clearly pantheists and animists. :)

Tattooing is much much more than a Bisayan practice. It is a throwback to our Austronesian ancestors. Note the word Batuk + Patik = the Batik in Indonesian culture. Note also the Batik patterns in the picture. Some Indonesian cultures (those not affected by Islam)& many Polynesian cultures esp the Maoris are also into tattoos. It is Austronesian! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/scan0013.jpg

These are our tattoo terms:

Batuk or Patik - our general term for tattoo. Me likey this topic. Paging @flesh is weak. Perhaps we can design our Bisaya state flag like a Batik flag para difficult to forge. As vibrant as an Indonesian Batik and as stunning as the flag of South Africa. :banana:

Mercato

February 21st, 2009, 04:24 PM

Taga Bogo

February 21st, 2009, 06:47 PM

I think the answer is simple: the early missionaries traveled by sea and not overland. the carriage trails in Cebu appeared only after the 1850s, if we go by the national archives records. these early churches were already huge affairs even during the 1650s up.

even if there were carriage trails, strong bridges (not wooden ones that get wshed away during a storm surge or a driving rain) did not even come into the picture of public works in Spanish Philippines until after the 1850s also.

and so the friar wanted to arrive on the visita by sea with the Ermita immediately facing him, not turned on its back. and why would it be turned away from the sea when there is not existing road for it to face?

also, even parishioners or new converts coming to the Ermita or chapel or whatever church it was, had to arrive by sea and depart through it.

this also explains why our modern churches always face the road/street. it would really be weird for a church not to face the main passageway where most of its parishioners will come from. and i've never seen a church nga nagtalikod sa dalan ug nag-atubang sa kahawanan o basakan o bukid ba kaha nga way agianan.

Your explanation seems very logical why the sea side facades.

Let me be a little persistent. There was a mention about "ligid-ligid". You did mention that there may be some doubts (if I may use the phrase) on the cebuano words of the week. Never-the-less did we have a concept of a rest day, not necessarily sunday, before spain?

Taga Bogo

February 21st, 2009, 06:47 PM

flesh_is_weak

February 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM

as far as i know, the main altar should be oriented towards, or at least facing the general direction of the Holy Land

flesh_is_weak

February 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM

as far as i know, the main altar should be oriented towards, or at least facing the general direction of the Holy Land

Pinoy_ako

February 22nd, 2009, 02:15 AM

as far as i know, the main altar should be oriented towards, or at least facing the general direction of the Holy Land

This may only be true for the European churches. Philippine churches would in some way conform with the Laws of the Indies, which prescribes the location of the plaza, divil and religious structures in the towns founded by the sea or inland. In coastal towns, the Leyes prescribes that the church would function as an auxiliary fort.

Pinoy_ako

February 22nd, 2009, 02:15 AM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:51 AM

Your explanation seems very logical why the sea side facades.

Let me be a little persistent. There was a mention about "ligid-ligid". You did mention that there may be some doubts (if I may use the phrase) on the cebuano words of the week. Never-the-less did we have a concept of a rest day, not necessarily sunday, before spain?

i think with abundant resources for trading, every day would have been a rest day for Cebuanos then! :lol:..or at least there were periods in the day when our ancestors rested....

but a full day dedicated to resting? i don't think so. the rest day is an offshoot of industrialization and the growth of trade unions demanding its universal application in the late 19th century as one of the rights of labor.

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:51 AM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:54 AM

Because in both Islam and Christianity (pre Vatican II), tattooing was frowned upon as a pagan practice. I am not sure about post Vatican II if it has been allowed. The subjects of the Sultan of Sulu did not have tattoos. This makes all the Bisayans clearly pantheists and animists. :)

Tattooing is much much more than a Bisayan practice. It is a throwback to our Austronesian ancestors. Note the word Batuk + Patik = the Batik in Indonesian culture. Note also the Batik patterns in the picture. Some Indonesian cultures (those not affected by Islam)& many Polynesian cultures esp the Maoris are also into tattoos. It is Austronesian! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Me likey this topic. Paging @flesh is weak. Perhaps we can design our Bisaya state flag like a Batik flag para difficult to forge. As vibrant as an Indonesian Batik and as stunning as the flag of South Africa. :banana:

In fact the most fearsome tattoos can be found among islander societies like ours. consider, for example, the Maoris of New Zealand. or the Hawaiians of the fomer Sandwich Islands.

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:54 AM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:57 AM

@Sir Jobers:

Do you have a ground plan or lay-out of the Boljoon church complex and/or photos of the rear and side sections of the church and convento? I'm planning of making a miniature of the church complex... hehehe i'm currently working on a miniature of the Old Recoletos church from photos and old maps of cebu for its lay-out out. I figure i'll be done with the recoletos by mid march? :bash: Something to keep myself sane:nuts: while waiting for the April results :) hehehe

@Harve, I think the Boljoon Heritage Foundation has a layout plan of the church, prepared by Angel Lazaro and Associates for NCCA. Archt. Melva Rodriguez-Java may also have her own from her Heritage Conservation class in architecture.

I'd be happy if can also make a scale model of the od CPDRC now Museo Sugbo.

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 07:57 AM

Taga Bogo

February 22nd, 2009, 09:22 AM

i think with abundant resources for trading, every day would have been a rest day for Cebuanos then! :lol:..or at least there were periods in the day when our ancestors rested....

but a full day dedicated to resting? i don't think so. the rest day is an offshoot of industrialization and the growth of trade unions demanding its universal application in the late 19th century as one of the rights of labor.

salamat for the clarification

Taga Bogo

February 22nd, 2009, 09:22 AM

bukid

February 22nd, 2009, 10:53 AM

bukid

February 22nd, 2009, 10:53 AM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 02:16 PM

nakabasa ra ko ana, ako unya to pangitaon usab pero murag about polynesian man to.

naa man pud tawag sa amo sa tattoo. gitawag sya ug "patik" murag katunog sya sa "batik".

murag pareha ani ang ako nakit-an.

http://www.larskrutak.com/articles/Philippines/index.html

Thanks for the reference, @ Bukid.

What I get is that tattoing among the Bontoc is done only when one has carried out successful headhunting---it is then, as we anthropologists/archaeologists aver, a rite de passage, a coming of age of some sort and not an aesthetic or cosmetic correction as would happen when it is done merely to cover fresh wounds.

Now, I wonder why polynesians do that. if you do find the reference, please post it here. thanks.

The article you cited is most refreshing. Thank you.

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 02:16 PM

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 04:12 PM

4 hours into the build and several papercuts later.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0393.jpg
Cutting pattern for the entrance.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0395.jpg
Initial facade.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0398.jpg
Columns.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0396.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0402.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0403.jpg
It's pretty much looking somewhat like a bombed out building as of the moment.

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 04:12 PM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM

archaeologue

February 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM

AmbutLang

February 22nd, 2009, 05:11 PM

AmbutLang

February 22nd, 2009, 05:11 PM

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 05:15 PM

^^^^

Wow! Nindot na i-display sa Cathedral Museum. Problema lang if malain ang mga Recollects nga ato ma-remind unsa ila gibuhat sa ilang maanindot nga simbahan.

Next, ang Opon church pod. So that another religious order, the MSC, will be reminded of their ill-advised decision to replace it with a modern one---something that I think they already regretted doing.

The most difficult part for models like this is the tile roofing and what material to use to show it. i think sa Colon nga diorama at Cebuano Studies Center the students used kanang currogated cartons.

I was able to get pre-made corrugated colored cardboard at National hehe:)
I'm actually planning of making a "lost churches" series if I'm satisfied with my current model para patas tanan ug regret hahahaha :lol: Lisod if malain ang recoletos... ni-graduate raba ko under their tutelage sa law ha hahaha ang papercuts mas sakit pa tawn kaysa samad jud :bash:

Lisud i-cut out ang arches, I have to cut it out in sections otherwise dirty ang guwas... if im gonna do opon hala magrigor akong ulo with all those arches sa back(?) or was it the front(?) facade? hehe:lol:

Ang roofing jud ang lisod! I got the smallest grade of corrugated cardboards para mu-fit sa scale, gonna cut them up and lay them down like roofing tiles:) my tweezers are ready haha

As for this recoletos model, I'm taking some liberty :nuts: with how the interior court yard would look based on other Agustinian/Recollect churches built more or less at the same time since I haven't seen any photographs of the courtyard except for a side section of the church itself from a 1962 yearbook of CSJR. Pang-last nako buhaton ang belfry, mejo tricky with all those columns... hehehe

I'll give this one to the museum if this model turns out alright hehehehe Ang labad sa ulo ang research as to the dimensions and the structural footprint of the building... but with insomnia nothing is impossible!!! HAHAHA :lol::lol::lol:

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 05:15 PM

AmbutLang

February 22nd, 2009, 05:28 PM

AmbutLang

February 22nd, 2009, 05:28 PM

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 05:46 PM

@harveharve, I admire your patience in doing your projects/almost like passion of a mission.

Many thanks:) I like history and I like the arts, combining the two makes it a whole lot more interesting and challenging :) a love challenging projects where records can only tell so much, filling in the gaps makes it an adventure :)

harveharve

February 22nd, 2009, 05:46 PM

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 07:16 AM

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0412.jpg
I just found out that the part of the recoletos with the the roman columns in front is called the Narthex or Vestibule. Originally, penitents and Catechumens were confined to this area until their reconciliation with or initiation into the Church.

As with most old churches, the Recoletos had a cruciform shape. Wherever the altar was located, the wall behind is called the East Wall. In the middle of the transept is where one can usually find a dome. In the case of the Recoletos, it had a pyramidal dome instead of real dome, supported by a vault.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0413.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0414.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0415.jpg
Making the roof of the pyramidal dome was a bit tricky, I had to make trusses in order to stabilize the roof.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0417.jpg
The right side of the transept is called the South transept even if the church was not oriented in the traditional East-West axis. Same with what I did with the pyramidal dome roof, I made trusses on the inside to stabilize the roof of the south transept.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0418.jpg
detail of pyramidal dome and south transept roofs.

It's pretty much taking on the look of the recoletos, I'll be working on the convento after I'm done with the church itself. I still have to figure out the belfry design though:lol:

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 07:16 AM

AmbutLang

February 23rd, 2009, 09:55 AM

Sa gagmai pami, anha mi manimba sa Recoleto once a month ug ang uban Dominggo adto mi sa San Nicholas. Wala pa ang simbahan sa Birhen sa Remedios diha sa Labangon. Wala ko ganahi sa Recoleto kai init kaayo sa sulod. OK lang kung dili puno week days.
Ang San Nicholas pud girenovate mana siya pagayo. Murag batong buhi manto ang mga bungbung. Si Padre Undoy Reynes pa ang cura paroko pa ato.

AmbutLang

February 23rd, 2009, 09:55 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:04 AM

cebu churches: past & present
from the previous posts of @archaeologue and @harveharve

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5660/alcantara.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/53/alcoy.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9827/alegria.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3206/aloguinsan.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2701/argao.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1182/asturiasc.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:04 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:11 AM

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4325/badian.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/579/balamban.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6360/bantayan.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/941/barili.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8642/bato.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/298/bogo.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3029/boljoon.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3959/borbon.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:11 AM

Ang_Bantayanon

February 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

Beautiful Padre Gee!

Ang_Bantayanon

February 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

Beautiful Padre Gee!

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:15 AM

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5760/carcar.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5962/carmen.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6711/compostela.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4771/consolacion.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/610/cordova.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:15 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:22 AM

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7053/daanbantayann.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3919/dalaguete.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5954/danao.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3618/dumanjug.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:22 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:25 AM

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/381/ginatilan.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7574/guadalupe.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6845/lahug.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9551/liloan.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:25 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:46 AM

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4066/mabolo.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8793/malabuyoc.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8160/mandaue.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4987/medellin.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3770/minglanilla.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3510/moalboal.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:46 AM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 12:23 PM

to be continued ...

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 12:23 PM

to be continued ...

Ka_Bino

February 23rd, 2009, 12:25 PM

^^ kalooy sa Moalboal kay wa najud intawon matabang ang simbahan

Ka_Bino

February 23rd, 2009, 12:25 PM

^^ kalooy sa Moalboal kay wa najud intawon matabang ang simbahan

Taga Bogo

February 23rd, 2009, 03:53 PM

to be continued ...

GREAT pix padz. Looked closer sa mga pix, noticed sa mga earlier churches na wa ang usual cross shape sa iyang structure. Kana bang naa'y extension sa structure right before the altar. Not an architect and hope I am making myself clear :)

Was there a papal order to construct churches in the shape of the cross or was it just a europen fashion transported dinhi sa Pnas. On the recent pix you had posted some of the churches no longer supports the cross shaped structure. Would you have some idea when the practice of a cross shaped church stopped.

Taga Bogo

February 23rd, 2009, 03:53 PM

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 04:49 PM

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 04:49 PM

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 06:06 PM

It's starting to look like the old Recoletos... but somehow, I think I botched up the paintjob :ohno:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0436.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0430.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0431.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0437.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0438.jpg

harveharve

February 23rd, 2009, 06:06 PM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:43 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4117/nagan.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9499/caceres.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3371/opon.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2150/oslob.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:43 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4117/nagan.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9499/caceres.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3371/opon.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2150/oslob.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:46 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4421/pardo.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5349/pilar.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7326/pinamungajan.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4176/poro.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:46 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4421/pardo.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5349/pilar.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7326/pinamungajan.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4176/poro.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:50 PM

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/685/recoletos.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1125/ronda.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1592/samboan.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4697/sanfernando.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8495/sannicolas.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:50 PM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:54 PM

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7904/sanremegio.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/904/santander.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6428/sibonga.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5449/sogod.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/134/storosario.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:54 PM

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:58 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1117/tabogon.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4283/tabuelan.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9286/talaga.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3751/talisay.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5259/toledo.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9676/tuburan.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 09:58 PM

Animo

February 23rd, 2009, 10:47 PM

Gee, you misspelled Nueva Cáceres, Oslob (unless it´s not named after Cáceres, Spain).

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9499/caceres.jpg

Animo

February 23rd, 2009, 10:47 PM

Gee, you misspelled Nueva Cáceres, Oslob (unless it´s not named after Cáceres, Spain).

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9499/caceres.jpg

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 10:59 PM

Gee, you misspelled Nueva Cáceres, Oslob (unless it´s not named after Cáceres, Spain).

thanks, i did not notice it ... i'll correct it later

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 10:59 PM

Gee, you misspelled Nueva Cáceres, Oslob (unless it´s not named after Cáceres, Spain).

thanks, i did not notice it ... i'll correct it later

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:26 PM

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7667/nuevacaceres.jpg

gaduka na ko, nakalimtan ang oslob!!

gee

February 23rd, 2009, 11:26 PM

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7667/nuevacaceres.jpg

gaduka na ko, nakalimtan ang oslob!!

Animo

February 23rd, 2009, 11:43 PM

^^ Tulog na uy! :D

Animo

February 23rd, 2009, 11:43 PM

^^ Tulog na uy! :D

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 07:26 AM

Kasagaran sa mga old churches, they extended the transept (that cross just before the altar) all the way to the nave murag side gallery to accommodate more of the faithful, I'm not aware if result ba ni sa Vatican II though...

Ang cruciform shape sa old churches naay Biblical meaning, and some through tradition lang. Before, it was a must that the altar should face be facing east or the entrance/vestible/narthex should open up in the east and the wall behind the altar is traditionally called the east wall (although it is to the west of the entrance)

(dili ko architect hehehehe i just like early church architecture) hehehe

"Kasagaran sa mga old churches, they extended the transept (that cross just before the altar) all the way to the nave murag side gallery to accommodate more of the faithful," - just for conversational sake, would'nt it be easier to accomodate more people by building wider churches, than creating another wall, transept. Some of today's "expansion" (consolacion and Bogo) are by expanding the side walls to extent na nawala ang cross shape sa simbahan.

Anyway, guess, another one na kaykayunon ug basahunon nako :) kung dili abta'g tapol :)

Thanks bai

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 07:26 AM

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 08:42 AM

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 08:42 AM

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 08:51 AM

I read from somewhere that the cruciform shape is actually cost-effective because of the smaller floor area as compared to a rectangular building. Ang problema lang, as the years roll on, managhan ang parishioners. I-extend nila hangtod mawala ang cruciform shape.

A good example would be the Redemptorist church, it looked like a cross but extended the sides..

Ayg tapol2x bai! hehehe there's this website on sacred architecture with explanations on the cruciform shape. It's an nteresting read :)

Dili ko tapolan ha :) Bitaw other than nagtinapolan na sad, can you advise on the name of this website you had mentioned about cruciform. Really find these practices, like this and directions of the facade interesting

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 08:51 AM

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 11:35 AM

hehehe binuang ra oi :lol:

here you go:

http://www.fisheaters.com/churchbuilding.html
http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/architecture.htm

:cheers:

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 11:35 AM

hehehe binuang ra oi :lol:

here you go:

http://www.fisheaters.com/churchbuilding.html
http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/architecture.htm

:cheers:

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 11:43 AM

hehehe binuang ra oi :lol:

here you go:

http://www.fisheaters.com/churchbuilding.html
http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/architecture.htm

:cheers:

Ok ra uy, no problem kumidya ra man sad tong akoa. No offense taken djud

salamat bai, well look see sa links

Taga Bogo

February 24th, 2009, 11:43 AM

Sinjin P.

February 24th, 2009, 11:55 AM

Sinjin P.

February 24th, 2009, 11:55 AM

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 02:20 PM

Guys, naa bay lista sa mga existing old churches sa tibuok probinsya sa Sugbo, in chronological order?

By the way, as usual, all praises kaayo ko ani nga thread kay educational ug informative kaayo, dili lang kaayo ko tigsabat kay maka-nosebleed. :D Regards!

what is your qualification of the word "old"? is it colonial? or 50 yrs? or 100 years? 300 years? untouched/unrenovated? etc...

the archdiocese of course has a list of all its parishes and their corresponding churches. if you look back in the previous posts of this thread, you will find a chronology of the parishes of cebu and their patron saints. if it is not here in this thread, it must be in the previous one.

there is a book on colonial churches of cebu and their offspring which we hope to launch in november. pre-selling will begin in late May.

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 02:20 PM

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 02:26 PM

The first "One Visayas Festival of Culture and the Arts" will be held at CICC on March 1-8, under the sponsorship of the Province of Cebu.

A series of performances/shows, lectures, demonstrations, book launchings and buyers markets in the fields of indigenous/Visayan dance, theater, independent film, literature, architecture, culinary arts, fine arts, music will mark the 8-day activity from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. The last two days will also overlap with the British Council-sponsored "Creative Cebu" event.

Ads and further announcements of all the activities will be made very soon.

Sunday March 1 will be a big event in the history of Cebu as festival contingents from 16 provinces of the Visayas will dance to their beats around CICC to be capped by a showdown in the evening.

The lectures will be very interesting to students and practitioners.

A buyers' market and fair will also be opened on that day as well as an exhibition of painting, photographs and other art forms.

Abangan!

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 02:26 PM

gee

February 24th, 2009, 02:32 PM

gee

February 24th, 2009, 02:32 PM

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Guys, naa bay lista sa mga existing old churches sa tibuok probinsya sa Sugbo, in chronological order?

By the way, as usual, all praises kaayo ko ani nga thread kay educational ug informative kaayo, dili lang kaayo ko tigsabat kay maka-nosebleed. :D Regards!

Kung naay tigsabat, naa gyud nay mananabtan.. Ang pangutana kinsa mana? :banana:

Sige sugdan na nato ang pangadye.. Mangluhod kita.. :lol:

Mananabtan:
Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Mananabtan:
Ay! Miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ug kanamo walay motabang?
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Guys, naa bay lista sa mga existing old churches sa tibuok probinsya sa Sugbo, in chronological order?

By the way, as usual, all praises kaayo ko ani nga thread kay educational ug informative kaayo, dili lang kaayo ko tigsabat kay maka-nosebleed. :D Regards!

Kung naay tigsabat, naa gyud nay mananabtan.. Ang pangutana kinsa mana? :banana:

Sige sugdan na nato ang pangadye.. Mangluhod kita.. :lol:

Mananabtan:
Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Mananabtan:
Ay! Miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ug kanamo walay motabang?
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an…

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:05 PM

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 03:08 PM

unsa man ni ... nagbilar sa ssc ... pangadye man ni sa patay :nuts:

Aw, ikaw gyud diay ang mananabtan padre. Hehehe! :banana::banana::banana:

Bitaw, why is death compared to a cave, Gee? Christian belief ba ni? I've seen reliefs of saints in caves but I'm confused with its iconography.

We have such relief in Bantayan, that of St. Magdalene in a cave.

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 03:08 PM

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Aw, ikaw gyud diay ang mananabtan padre. Hehehe! :banana::banana::banana:

nahala, andama ang painit:cheers:

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Aw, ikaw gyud diay ang mananabtan padre. Hehehe! :banana::banana::banana:

nahala, andama ang painit:cheers:

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Bitaw, lami human sa pangadye kay

1. bingka sa Mandaue
2. budbod nga parisan og mangga
3. sikwati

Pwerting dauga! Gigutom na nuon ko dah! :lol:

Ang_Bantayanon

February 24th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Bitaw, lami human sa pangadye kay

1. bingka sa Mandaue
2. budbod nga parisan og mangga
3. sikwati

Pwerting dauga! Gigutom na nuon ko dah! :lol:

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:33 PM

Bitaw, why is death compared to a cave, Gee? Christian belief ba ni? I've seen reliefs of saints in caves but I'm confused with its iconography.

We have such relief in Bantayan, that of St. Magdalene in a cave.

wala man na sa pagtulun-an sa simbahan, pero gigamit na sa mga christian artists isip representation sa kamatayon

gee

February 24th, 2009, 03:33 PM

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Humana gyud! hehehe :banana:
And I'm now at a quandary what to do next:lol: Opon church?:cheers:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0471.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/prewarrecoletos2.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0472.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/prewarrecoletos.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0473.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/RecollectosChurch.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0479.jpg
A portion of the convento

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0480.jpg
Church-convento complex (how it may have looked like) from Escondrillas Map and the 1913 Map of Cebu.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/harveharve/IMG_0475.jpg

harveharve

February 24th, 2009, 05:57 PM

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 10:42 PM

Aw, ikaw gyud diay ang mananabtan padre. Hehehe! :banana::banana::banana:

Bitaw, why is death compared to a cave, Gee? Christian belief ba ni? I've seen reliefs of saints in caves but I'm confused with its iconography.

We have such relief in Bantayan, that of St. Magdalene in a cave.

I thought then that the cave or langub mentioned in the Gozos represents purgatory and the us or kami are that of the souls.

The line: Sa langub nga among gipuy-an inyo kaming panabangan in my own internpretation is the cry or plea of the souls in purgatory for us to pray for them. :lol:

Ay tawo nga manggiloy-an
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Ay! miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ningtabang kami sa uban
Ug kanamo walay motabang
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan

Gilibutan man kami
Sa kasakit nga daghanan
Sa kalayo nga masiga
Ug dili gayud mapagngan
Kay gihuyup kanunay
Sa Diosnon nga kinaadman.

And what makes this Gozos different from that of a Novenario for a patron is that the souls were the ones crying or asking for help and prayers from us while that of the novenario for a patron, we call on a saint to intercede for us (e.g. Inahan, tabangi kami kanunay or Kanamo malooy ka unta, nga kanimo nangilaba." Just my own observation.. =)

Pero di jud ko malimot ani.. usa ka bayot while attending a bilar: "sa langub nga among gipuy-an kami nanggawas kay kami gi alimut-an.."

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 10:42 PM

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 10:47 PM

^^^^

Wow! Witwiw! Congratulations, Harve!

Paspasa oi. Nindot kaayo!

:cheers:

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 10:47 PM

^^^^

Wow! Witwiw! Congratulations, Harve!

Paspasa oi. Nindot kaayo!

:cheers:

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 10:49 PM

Kung naay tigsabat, naa gyud nay mananabtan.. Ang pangutana kinsa mana? :banana:

Sige sugdan na nato ang pangadye.. Mangluhod kita.. :lol:

Mananabtan:
Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Mananabtan:
Ay! Miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ug kanamo walay motabang?
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Tanan:
Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Sounds to me like a pre-Spanish ritual chant---unless if bag-o na ni.

Ang Bantayanon, is this really a catholic prayer or do you think this was adopted by the friars or allowed by them to be used as had been the case in many pre-Spanish practrices?

Speaking of caves, we just went to one in Barili together with a city-based spelunking club to map and inspect secondary burial jars. the decoration on the earthenware sherds were fabulous---especially when we washed them at Mantayupan Falls (also fabulous!).

archaeologue

February 24th, 2009, 10:49 PM

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 11:10 PM

I addition to my above comment, here's an article on purgatory: http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/purgatory2.htm

Layo-a pa atung kalag-kalag oi, mag Curesma sa ta.. It's Ash Wednesday today..

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 11:10 PM

I addition to my above comment, here's an article on purgatory: http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/purgatory2.htm

Layo-a pa atung kalag-kalag oi, mag Curesma sa ta.. It's Ash Wednesday today..

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 11:15 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4117/nagan.jpg

so di na diay na original ang facade sa naga as compared vs. the old photo.

goleyson

February 24th, 2009, 11:15 PM

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4117/nagan.jpg

so di na diay na original ang facade sa naga as compared vs. the old photo.

flesh_is_weak

February 24th, 2009, 11:51 PM

kanang mananabtan ba, i'm tempted to relate it to a vestige of pre-spanish religion...kind of reminds me of the babaylan...

are my thoughts valid?

* * *

re: one visayas:

magkasinabot kaha tanan noh? kita baya sa cebu, we're starting to be perceived by some of our neighbors as another imperial power...and there was even this politician from a neighboring island who was more than too eager to see cebu cut up and divided--good for him his vision did not come to pass

flesh_is_weak

February 24th, 2009, 11:51 PM

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 12:35 AM

kanang mananabtan ba, i'm tempted to relate it to a vestige of pre-spanish religion...kind of reminds me of the babaylan...

are my thoughts valid?

I share with you such musings...which is why I asked Ang Bantayanon whether the chant is really Catholic.

re: one visayas:

magkasinabot kaha tanan noh? kita baya sa cebu, we're starting to be perceived by some of our neighbors as another imperial power...and there was even this politician from a neighboring island who was more than too eager to see cebu cut up and divided--good for him his vision did not come to pass

hahah...if only I can tell you the dynamics between the Samar provinces (among themselves) and the same provinces with their Leyte counterparts...

and also between a Negros province and a province in Panay.

in fact, i heard that the cebu secretariat was shocked at first that this was really going on!

if there is one consolation, the central visayas provinces (Cebu, Bohol, Siquijor and Negros Oriental) are just watching in bemused silence on the sidelines.

my thoughts on this is simple: these dynamics happen not because one belongs to a particular province. it's probably because these are artists and thespians who want to assert themselves?

paet faet.

The book entitled "Sukaran: The Heritage Houses of Baclayon and Loboc" or something like that, authored by heritage architect Inno Manalo and Marianito Luspo will be launched during this event, I think on Thursday or Friday at 10 a.m. The book costs P1,200 and is published by Ayala Foundation through Filipinas Heritage Lib.

Dr. Erlinda Alburo's book "Dictionary of the Arts of the Bisayas" will laso be launched on Tuesday at 4:00 p.m. during her lecture entitled "Cebuano Language as Heritage".

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 12:35 AM

MatudNilaBaby

February 25th, 2009, 12:44 AM

MatudNilaBaby

February 25th, 2009, 12:44 AM

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 12:58 AM

^^

Bravo, MatudNilaBaby!

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 12:58 AM

^^

Bravo, MatudNilaBaby!

gee

February 25th, 2009, 12:59 AM

Sounds to me like a pre-Spanish ritual chant---unless if bag-o na ni.

Ang Bantayanon, is this really a catholic prayer or do you think this was adopted by the friars or allowed by them to be used as had been the case in many pre-Spanish practrices?

i heard this a couple of times ... gipangadye ni sa mga mananabtan sauna ... bisan karon gipangadye pa ni .... naka-experience na ko nga kaduha gipangadye-an ang patay ... giuna ang kinaraan, dayon ang modern ... ingon ang tagtungod nindot kuno paminawon ang kinaraan ... (wala sab ko kahunhuna ug pangutanan kung naa ba nihil obstat ug imprimatur ang libreto sa mananabtan, para maconfirm kung offcially approved ba gyud sa simbahan ) kadtong niuli ko sa cebu last year i even heard a bisrock song using some of these lines (na shock ko nganong pangadye sa patay, gihimo naman nila ug rap :bash:) ... i think "prayers" is an interesting topic for investigation esp. the older ones cause it give us some imagery of the spirituality/religiosity of the time ....

@ang_bantayanon, naa pa kay lain nga mga pangadye ... pwede padalhan ko nimo ....

gee

February 25th, 2009, 12:59 AM

habagatcentral1

February 25th, 2009, 01:16 AM

hahah...if only I can tell you the dynamics between the Samar provinces (among themselves) and the same provinces with their Leyte counterparts...

and also between a Negros province and a province in Panay.

in fact, i heard that the cebu secretariat was shocked at first that this was really going on!

if there is one consolation, the central visayas provinces (Cebu, Bohol, Siquijor and Negros Oriental) are just watching in bemused silence on the sidelines.

my thoughts on this is simple: these dynamics happen not because one belongs to a particular province. it's probably because these are artists and thespians who want to assert themselves?

paet faet.

Why, what happened or will be happening @Sir Joebers?

habagatcentral1

February 25th, 2009, 01:16 AM

goleyson

February 25th, 2009, 02:23 PM

i heard this a couple of times ... gipangadye ni sa mga mananabtan sauna ... bisan karon gipangadye pa ni .... naka-experience na ko nga kaduha gipangadye-an ang patay ... giuna ang kinaraan, dayon ang modern ... ingon ang tagtungod nindot kuno paminawon ang kinaraan ... (wala sab ko kahunhuna ug pangutanan kung naa ba nihil obstat ug imprimatur ang libreto sa mananabtan, para maconfirm kung offcially approved ba gyud sa simbahan ) kadtong niuli ko sa cebu last year i even heard a bisrock song using some of these lines (na shock ko nganong pangadye sa patay, gihimo naman nila ug rap :bash:) ... i think "prayers" is an interesting topic for investigation esp. the older ones cause it give us some imagery of the spirituality/religiosity of the time ....

@ang_bantayanon, naa pa kay lain nga mga pangadye ... pwede padalhan ko nimo ....

fr., ana pud ang practice sa amo when my uncle passed away.. we had the kinaraan, then mass, then the new one (snacks dayun). mao pud practice sa uban sa amoa. but some the oldies refused to adopt the new practice so they only stick to the kinaraan and even make tugon that when its their turn it should be the kinaraan.

and here's an old gozos for sr. santo nino de cebu posted by dsarmiento 81 in flickr...

GOZOS

Batubalani sa gugma
sa daan tao palangga

Canamo malooy ca unta
nga canimo nangilaba

Ang sa Sugbong pag cadunggo
sa mga catchilang tao
dinhi himpalgan icao
sa usa canilang soldado
cay caniya icao napaquita
guican lamang sa imong gugma

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Ang balay nga hipalgan
sa imo nga catahuman
nahimo nga catilingban
sa mga taong daghanan
ang ngatanan natingala
Cay guionhan mo man sila

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Guisimba icao ug guiludhan
ni legaspi nga punoan
cay icao niya ang hingquit-an
sa iyang pag hidalagan
sa madagaang nga gugma
nagamatuod nga Dios cang Bata

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Cadtong mga taong daghan
ang gugma nila guiasdang
sa pagbuhat ug simbahan
nga canimo nga himpalgan
nga guipanaghalad nila
canimo Dios sa higugma

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Ang imong mga catahuman
sa among calag calipayan
sa among saquit ingon tambal
ug sa among cahangul manggad
sa ngatanan quinahanglan
Icao ang among dalangpanan

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Icao lamang ang ampoon
sa mga daang sugbuanon
nga canimo nanagbaton
con naay quinahanglanon
busa guinganlan ca nila
alampoon bala hala

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Con olan ang pangayoon
ug imong pagadugayon
dad-on ca sa baybayon
ug sa dagat pasalomon
ug dayon nila macuha
ang olan nga guitinguha

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Icao gayud ang tuburan
ning lonlon catingalahan
busa icao guituhoan
niing mga capopod-an
pagton-an mo ang sacop nila
sa matarong nga higugma

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Icao ang among guisaligan
malig-on ug matuod nga dalangpan
sa among mga quinahanglan
cay diosnon cang mananabang
ipaquita ang imong gugma
Oh langitnon balahala

Canamo malooy ca unta etc.

Bato balani sa gugma
sa daan tao palangga

Canamo malooy ca unta
nga canimo nangilaba

"Fr. Mateo Diez OSA, rector of the sanctuary in 1889 introduced the first novena to the Santo Niño under the Cebuano title "Novena ug pagdayeg sa Ssmo. Niño Jesus nga guisimba sa cyudad sa Sugbo", printed in Mandaluyong by Asilo de Huerfanos, 1888."-

goleyson

February 25th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Ka_Bino

February 25th, 2009, 02:51 PM

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/kapamilyakameraklub/mailgooglecom.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/kapamilyakameraklub/gozos.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/kapamilyakameraklub/gozs1.jpg

Ka_Bino

February 25th, 2009, 02:51 PM

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Why, what happened or will be happening @Sir Jobers?

nothing to be alarmed really. some are just being assertive of their festival dance or their traditions, for example, and want to make this known to others...

:banana:

archaeologue

February 25th, 2009, 03:26 PM

goleyson

February 25th, 2009, 04:23 PM

yes ka bino, thats the novenario.. and i've heard some still use that one for their novenario for the s. nino.

goleyson

February 25th, 2009, 04:23 PM

yes ka bino, thats the novenario.. and i've heard some still use that one for their novenario for the s. nino.

flesh_is_weak

February 25th, 2009, 05:07 PM

with english as the official language of communication, one visayas will understand and appreciate each other's unique regional cultures. i think one visayas is doable and a force to reckon with if we are truly united with our cause.

in my idle time, i pondered on a way as to how we can get our own visayan republic without resorting to a revolution...we can hope that the leftists in the opposition would seize power in the capital...then we can call on the US and other democratic powers in the world to shelter us from the new communist regime, telling them that we in the visayas want nothing to do with them :lol:

so next time na mag-rally ang mga walhon sa manila, kever lang ta...that could be the road to visayan independence :lol:

para dili OT

re: taming sa calag:

naa koy copy ana inherited from my great-great grandmother...it is so well preserved, as if it was bought just yesterday...too bad akong nahabilin diha sa cebu

flesh_is_weak

February 25th, 2009, 05:07 PM

radical_zeitgeist

February 25th, 2009, 05:46 PM

we can hope that the leftists in the opposition would seize power in the capital...then we can call on the US and other democratic powers in the world to shelter us from the new communist regime, telling them that we in the visayas want nothing to do with them :lol:

so next time na mag-rally ang mga walhon sa manila, kever lang ta...that could be the road to visayan independence :lol:

as a leftist i wouldnt agree to that. that is very prejudiced. also do you know that aside from me, some of us here also has a history of involvement with the philippine left? you should no better.

radical_zeitgeist

February 25th, 2009, 05:46 PM

gee

February 25th, 2009, 06:56 PM

this is a heritage thread ... i hope we avoid issues about independence, secession and other related topics, otherwise we'll experience something similar to cebuano language thread ... salamat!!!

gee

February 25th, 2009, 06:56 PM

this is a heritage thread ... i hope we avoid issues about independence, secession and other related topics, otherwise we'll experience something similar to cebuano language thread ... salamat!!!

gee

February 25th, 2009, 07:08 PM

Gozos, after everything else
By Cora M. Almerino

Leafing through a novena booklet, one might come across the most different form of prayer in it: the gozos.

But what, indeed, is the gozos utterance among other verses of the novena? The gozos, having its own versification pattern, forms its own accentual rhythm. “Lahi ang gozos sa matag novena, apan, mao-mao rang tunoha inig basa ani sa mananabtan ug inig tubag sa mga sumasabat,” says the 63 year-old mananabtan, Teresita Genodepanon. Genodepanon stresses that the format of the novena follows the Spanish Monte Calvario instructions. She started learning the tasks of a mananabtan at the age of 10, and practiced that learning in the chapel when she was 13. She grew up in a family of mananabtans, from her grandmother, Potenciana Alcover, whose lover was a Spanish official, down to her mother.

The most recent pagsabat, which she led, was the Kuwarenta -Dias novena-prayer for the soul of someone who had just departed. In this Kuwarenta-Dias novena-prayer, Genodepanon used the novena, Novena sa mga Kalag sa Purgatorio.

With lighted candles on the altar, and people kneeling, Genodepanon started chanting the oracion. From the oracion to a series of prayers, she finally arrived at the gozos for the dead: Mga Pagtuwaw sa Mga Kalag sa Purgatorio. Here’s an excerpt:

Ay tawo nga manggiloy-an
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Ay! miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ningtabang kami sa uban
Ug kanamo walay motabang
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan

Gilibutan man kami
Sa kasakit nga daghanan
Sa kalayo nga masiga
Ug dili gayud mapagngan
Kay gihuyup kanunay
Sa Diosnon nga kinaadman.

Genodepanon explained that in the gozos for the dead, the consciousness is of the dead pleading to God for their redemption from helpless, otherworldly circumstances. Uttering these verses, the *mananabtan and the mananabat both become the channel of that pleading. They assume such consciousness, and thus bring forth this pleading to God.
Yet, in a close reading of the verses, one will notice that the same gozos is not only a pleading to God shaped from the consciousness of the dead, but also a pleading that is addressed to the living: Sa langub among gipuy-an/Inyo kaming panabangan/Gilibutan man kami/Sa kasakit nga daghanan/Sa kalayo nga masiga/Ug dili gayud mapagngan/Kay gihuyup kanunay/Sa Diosnon nga kinaadman.

The Spanish colonization introduced new literary forms to Philippine native traditions. Among these literary forms are the Spanish prayer verses such as the gozos. From the Sugbuanong Balak (I) from Pre-Spanish until 1940, edited by Erlinda K. Alburo, Vicente Bandillo, Simeon Dumdum Jr., and Resil B. Mojares, the Sugbuanong poetics extended to “a stream of Cebuano devotional verses which graced religious manuals and prayerbooks. Such verses are largely of an indifferent quality, undoubtedly inferior to the oral poetry of the period. These early texts are either original compositions or redactions from Spanish texts, and either the work of Spanish priests or compositions by native assistants to the Spanish clergy or early Cebuano priests.”

There are different novenas for every celebration, or intention. For Teresita’s family, each birthday is celebrated with a novena. For Teresita, the family unites in praying the novena to Sta. Teresa; for Angelie, the Inahan sa Kanunayng Panabang; for the boys, the Espiritu Santo and San Jose; for Teresita’s mother, the Santo Niño; and Teresita’s father, the San Jose de Calasan.

Here are excerpts of los gozos of different novenas:

Novena Del Glorioso Confesor De Jesucristo
San Antonio De Padua

Mga Kalipay ni San Antonio de Padua (Gozos)

Ikaw man ang mananabang
Sa amo nga kalisdanan.

San Antonio nga bulahan
Imo kaming panabangan.

Sa bagyong makahahadlok
Donggoanan ka nga malinaw
Ug tubig man nga matin-aw
Nga sa sunog magapalong,
Sa ngatanan nga kalisdanan
Ikaw among mananabang.

Novena ni San Vicente Ferrer (1935)

Kay mag-alampo ka nga tinuod
Ug manlalaban ka namo.

Kami Vicente sa Dios ig-ampo
Kami nga kanimo mangalaum.

Ang usa ka babayeng buang
Nagapatay sa iyang anak,
Kay iya man gihunahuna
Nga pagakan-on unta niya,
Giluto niya ang tinadtad
Ug buhi giuli mo kaniya.

Minatay kap-atan ug unom
Ang gipanggawas mo sa lubong
Kay gibuhi mo sila pag-usab
Ug sa kalibutan giuli mo
Ug kay nawala sa ngalan mo
Ang lalang sa bitin nga maitum.

Kami Vicente sa Dios ig-ampo
Kami nga kanimo mangalaum.

Virgen sa Fatima

Oh! Ulay sa Fatima, Ikaw ang among
Dalangpanan sa tanan namong
Mga kalisdanan.

Oh Inahan nga mananabang
Sa mga kristianos nga tanan!

Ang tawo tungud sa iyang mga sala
Giangkon niya ang iyang kapildihan
Ug aron kaniya ang tanan mapala
Ang iyang daghanan nga kasal-anan
Kinahanglan iyang pagabasulan,
Aron siya sa Dios ug sa Birhen kaloy-an.

Oh Inahan nga mananabang
Sa mga kristianos nga tanan!

Anak ko! Tan-awa ang akong
Kasingkasing nga gilibutan sa mga tawong
Makaliton ug pahayagi nga ako motabang
Kaniya sa takna sa kamatayon,
Nga mokalawat sa lima ka Sabado sunodsunod
Aron makahupay sa putli ko nga kasingkasing.

Oh Inahan nga mananabang
Sa mga kristianos nga tanan!

Gozos sa Espiritu Santo

Silingbahon nga personas
Sinugo sa Dios nga Amahan.

Espiritu nga Diosnon
Matin-aw o masigang langitnon.

Gahum hatag nga milagro,
Dakung gugma ug pagtoo,
Ipahilayo Mo kanamo
Ang among dili pagkahibalo,
Tamda gugma nga diosnon
Ang among pagkamatalak-on.

Hearing the gozos chant, one can identify two voices: the voice of that who utters the petitions in rhymed verses, and the voice of that who affirms the petitions by uttering the same lines after each petition, such as “Oh, inahan nga mananabang/Sa mga kristyanos nga tanan.” Yet these two voices follow the same rhythm, that beautiful rhythmic sound.

If , indeed, prayer, is a contemplation of one’s life, the gozos in itself is a contemplation of that life done in a celebration of different consciousness found in each kind.

The process of chanting organizes the thoughts of both the mananabtan and the mananabat and redirects thoughts to the essentials of utterance shaped in the given discipline of pattern, and in each consciousness shaped by language.

source: http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2003/07/28/life/gozos.after.everything.else.html

gee

February 25th, 2009, 07:08 PM

gee

February 25th, 2009, 07:15 PM

gozos alang kang pedro calungsod
http://www.coycebu.org/bl_pedro/duaw_5.php

gee

February 25th, 2009, 07:15 PM

gozos alang kang pedro calungsod
http://www.coycebu.org/bl_pedro/duaw_5.php

flesh_is_weak

February 25th, 2009, 07:36 PM

as a leftist i wouldnt agree to that. that is very prejudiced. also do you know that aside from me, some of us here also has a history of involvement with the philippine left? you should no better.

this is a heritage thread ... i hope we avoid issues about independence, secession and other related topics, otherwise we'll experience something similar to cebuano language thread ... salamat!!!

desole, lo siento, dispiace, mianhada...

:)

flesh_is_weak

February 25th, 2009, 07:36 PM

Ka_Bino

February 26th, 2009, 08:26 AM

re: taming sa calag:

naa koy copy ana inherited from my great-great grandmother...it is so well preserved, as if it was bought just yesterday...too bad akong nahabilin diha sa cebu

my copy is from my Mama...

maayo nalang lig-on ang plastic cover that held it together..

unya na-ay mga gipangsok-sok ni mama sa mga page.. which tells the story of mom.s travel..

naay ticket sa barko sa Cagayan.. Istampita sa ordinasyon sa pagkapari sa ig-agay niya..

ug daghan pa.. EMO kaayo everytime mopakli ko sa maong libro

Ka_Bino

February 26th, 2009, 08:26 AM

harveharve

February 26th, 2009, 09:18 AM

^^^^

Wow! Witwiw! Congratulations, Harve!

Paspasa oi. Nindot kaayo!

:cheers:

Thanks:banana: na-shock bitaw ko ngano dali nahuman :lol: I'm just adding finishing touches nalang like trees and people hehehe murag diorama:nuts:

harveharve

February 26th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Ang_Bantayanon

February 26th, 2009, 03:12 PM

i heard this a couple of times ... gipangadye ni sa mga mananabtan sauna ... bisan karon gipangadye pa ni .... naka-experience na ko nga kaduha gipangadye-an ang patay ... giuna ang kinaraan, dayon ang modern ... ingon ang tagtungod nindot kuno paminawon ang kinaraan ... (wala sab ko kahunhuna ug pangutanan kung naa ba nihil obstat ug imprimatur ang libreto sa mananabtan, para maconfirm kung offcially approved ba gyud sa simbahan ) kadtong niuli ko sa cebu last year i even heard a bisrock song using some of these lines (na shock ko nganong pangadye sa patay, gihimo naman nila ug rap :bash:) ... i think "prayers" is an interesting topic for investigation esp. the older ones cause it give us some imagery of the spirituality/religiosity of the time ....

@ang_bantayanon, naa pa kay lain nga mga pangadye ... pwede padalhan ko nimo ....

Gee, I'm sorry I just had chance to reply.. My internet connection has been erratic since yesterday. :ohno: Anyway, I don't have much prayers now, padre, but I will post the entire Gozos Alang Sa Mga Minatay here:

Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Ay! Miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ug kanamo walay motabang?
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Gilibutan man kami
Sa kasakit nga daghanan
Sa kalayo nga masiga
Ug dili gayud mapagngan
Kay gihuyup kanunay
Sa Diosnon nga kinaadman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang mga salang diyutay
Amo nga gipasipad-an
Sa walay pagtagam gayud
Nga sa ingon nga batasan
Nahimo kaming takus
Ning amo nga puloy-anan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang lima ka balatian
Nga dayandayan sa lawas
Ug gigamit sa tawo sa iyang kasal-anan
Gisakit ug daku dinhi
Balus nga gikalipayan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang labing dakung pag-antus
Niining pagkabutanga
Dili ang kasakitan
Kon dili ang kadugay lamang
Sa pag-atubang sa Dios
Nga among gikahidlawan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Kalimot nga walay ingon;
Ang sa mga kaubanan
Nahiagum lamang sila
Sa among gikabudlayan
Sa wala nilay pagpalandong
Sa ilang katigulangan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang kalooy nga buhat
Maoy among gikinahanglan
Sa pag-ampo ug sa misa
Inyo kaming kahalaran
Walay laing tambal kristianos
Niini nga kalisdanan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Pulong man ni Jesucristo
Nga ang langit nga dalan
Masigpit nga walay ingon
Ug sa tagsa ra gilaktan
Nan kaloy-i kami ninyo
Kay sa Dios kamo babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang inyo nga kinabuhi
Ingon ug hangin nga mawala
Ug ang kalipay sa yuta
Daw aso nga moagi lamang
Tumanon ninyo ang kalooy
Aron sa ulahi baslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.
___________

I can still remember my departed grandmother recite this Gozo in the cemetery so that I get irritated listening to the sacriligeous version which is used as a ringing tone of cellphones today. :ohno:

Ang_Bantayanon

February 26th, 2009, 03:12 PM

i heard this a couple of times ... gipangadye ni sa mga mananabtan sauna ... bisan karon gipangadye pa ni .... naka-experience na ko nga kaduha gipangadye-an ang patay ... giuna ang kinaraan, dayon ang modern ... ingon ang tagtungod nindot kuno paminawon ang kinaraan ... (wala sab ko kahunhuna ug pangutanan kung naa ba nihil obstat ug imprimatur ang libreto sa mananabtan, para maconfirm kung offcially approved ba gyud sa simbahan ) kadtong niuli ko sa cebu last year i even heard a bisrock song using some of these lines (na shock ko nganong pangadye sa patay, gihimo naman nila ug rap :bash:) ... i think "prayers" is an interesting topic for investigation esp. the older ones cause it give us some imagery of the spirituality/religiosity of the time ....

@ang_bantayanon, naa pa kay lain nga mga pangadye ... pwede padalhan ko nimo ....

Gee, I'm sorry I just had chance to reply.. My internet connection has been erratic since yesterday. :ohno: Anyway, I don't have much prayers now, padre, but I will post the entire Gozos Alang Sa Mga Minatay here:

Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.

Ay! Miagi na kami
Nianang walog nga luhaan
Ug kanamo walay motabang?
Dili ninyo hikalimtan
Nga ang magabalus babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Gilibutan man kami
Sa kasakit nga daghanan
Sa kalayo nga masiga
Ug dili gayud mapagngan
Kay gihuyup kanunay
Sa Diosnon nga kinaadman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang mga salang diyutay
Amo nga gipasipad-an
Sa walay pagtagam gayud
Nga sa ingon nga batasan
Nahimo kaming takus
Ning amo nga puloy-anan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang lima ka balatian
Nga dayandayan sa lawas
Ug gigamit sa tawo sa iyang kasal-anan
Gisakit ug daku dinhi
Balus nga gikalipayan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang labing dakung pag-antus
Niining pagkabutanga
Dili ang kasakitan
Kon dili ang kadugay lamang
Sa pag-atubang sa Dios
Nga among gikahidlawan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Kalimot nga walay ingon;
Ang sa mga kaubanan
Nahiagum lamang sila
Sa among gikabudlayan
Sa wala nilay pagpalandong
Sa ilang katigulangan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang kalooy nga buhat
Maoy among gikinahanglan
Sa pag-ampo ug sa misa
Inyo kaming kahalaran
Walay laing tambal kristianos
Niini nga kalisdanan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Pulong man ni Jesucristo
Nga ang langit nga dalan
Masigpit nga walay ingon
Ug sa tagsa ra gilaktan
Nan kaloy-i kami ninyo
Kay sa Dios kamo babaslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ang inyo nga kinabuhi
Ingon ug hangin nga mawala
Ug ang kalipay sa yuta
Daw aso nga moagi lamang
Tumanon ninyo ang kalooy
Aron sa ulahi baslan.

Sa langub among gipuy-an…

Ay, tawo nga manggiloy-on
Ug among gilauman.

Sa langub among gipuy-an
Inyo kaming panabangan.
___________

I can still remember my departed grandmother recite this Gozo in the cemetery so that I get irritated listening to the sacriligeous version which is used as a ringing tone of cellphones today. :ohno:

bukid

February 26th, 2009, 03:33 PM

bukid

February 26th, 2009, 03:33 PM

goleyson

February 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM

I can still remember my departed grandmother recite this Gozo in the cemetery so that I get irritated listening to the sacriligeous version which is used as a ringing tone of cellphones today. :ohno:

And the sad thing.. most of the people enjoyed it, I've heard the ringtone edition first time hear in Dubai. Pwerte pang agik-ik sa mga bisaya. But I already heard it way back then buy some group og gays having fun. hehe.

The rosario part has English version except for the gozos. It is the portion where instead of Hail Marys for the 10 beads you say..

"Jesus ko tungod sa dugo og tubig nga gisingot mo didtu sa huerto"
"Kaloi-an mo Ginoo ang calag ni___________ or mga calag sa purgatorio."

By the way, the old cebuano version of the Hail Holy Queen is Maghimaya ka Hari.. Why hari not hara or reyna?

goleyson

February 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM

archaeologue

February 26th, 2009, 04:57 PM

@Taga-Bogo and anyone who is interested (and rich!), the following vintage photos of Cebu are up for bidding on eBay (under collectibles, type "Philippines" and see them there):

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009-4.jpg

"Cebu's Oldest Well" (asa kaha ni? i've never seen a well covered with a structure like this. see the girl on top of this strange tower? makapanglimbawt sa balhibo...murag patay na jud ni sya!)

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009-2.jpg

"Looking south from Liloan Lighthouse"

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009-5.jpg

"Bull carts on the dock"

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009-1.jpg

"Recoletos Church"
@Harve, i notice that there are buttresses on the sides of the church diay.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009_07.jpg

Plaza Independencia

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009-3.jpg

"U.S. Club Bowling Alley"

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jbersales/postcards_from_february_22__2009_06.jpg

"Cebu beggars" (Kadagahn gud! And they look so well dressed. I don't think these are really beggars!)

There are three or two others in the collection which I did not include here because they don't show anything about Cebu.

archaeologue

February 26th, 2009, 04:57 PM

gee

February 26th, 2009, 10:52 PM

@archaeologue

i was in KITLV (Institute of Southeast Asian and Caribbean Studies) in Leiden this morning and asked the librarian if i could buy the book "The Philippines Through Foreign Lenses, Late 19th Century Photographs from the Meerkamp van Embden Collection". I was surprised that even the libarian was not even aware about it. She even copied the title of the book and told me that she will order that for the library. Then she sent me to the special collections department. I asked the people there if they knew about the book. They said "no" and told me to go back to the library. Luckily, one of the staff members heard about the book and tried to help me to find it at KITLV but she could not find it. So I asked her if I could see the original Meerkamp collections ... Without any question she handed me four big Meerkamp albums from late 1800s and early 1900s. The albums not only contain pictures but also news clippings, letters and postcards (gidalidali na lang nako ug tan-aw kay daghan kaayong pictures unya naa pa koy laing appointment) ... She told me that the pictures will be available online in the near future ....

gee

February 26th, 2009, 10:52 PM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 01:28 AM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 01:28 AM

harveharve

February 27th, 2009, 01:59 AM

harveharve

February 27th, 2009, 01:59 AM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 02:22 AM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 02:22 AM

Pinoy_ako

February 27th, 2009, 02:44 AM

^^

sige, lang, @ GEE, after One Visayas, I will go to Leiden and scold them hahahah! ana ra ka dali.

bitaw, strange kaayo na dah. somebody there must know about this because the back cover of the book mentions KITLV as the European dsitributor.

your next stop, (and this is like the Amazing Race now) is to drop by the author at the Univ. of Amsterdam. There is a Center for Asian Studies or something like that there if I remember correctly. Look for Otto van den Muijzenberg, the writer.

There are no more copies here in Cebu also.

weird huh!

I bought one after I read your column. Wow, you could get 2 softbound editions for the price of 1 hard bound copy.

^^

on second thought, maybe sawali ra na? hahah...strange how hugely massive the middle buttress is ha.

perhaps these buttresses were added later because they look massively ugly.

some earthquake must have cracked this side somehow.

The portico and belltower may have also been added later, since they were built in front of the original facade. Could they have been added at the time the Talisay church was built? Someone pointed out the similarity of the towers.

Pinoy_ako

February 27th, 2009, 02:44 AM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 02:52 AM

I bought one after I read your column. Wow, you could get 2 softbound editions for the price of 1 hard bound copy.

thanks...ateneo should pay me. haha. friends are emailing and texting me where to buy and I have no idea now except Ateneo Press na lang.

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 02:52 AM

Taga Bogo

February 27th, 2009, 06:27 AM

@Taga-Bogo and anyone who is interested (and rich!), the following vintage photos of Cebu are up for bidding on eBay (under collectibles, type "Philippines" and see them there):

Nice ta and these are on my ebay since day 1 sa ilang listing. Kaso lang aning mga cebu pix, ambot ngano mas mahal man djud ni sila kaysa ubang pix of other places in the Philippines. Tayming tayming lang kung makakuha ka ba ug original collectibles pareja ani na bubarato.

Watching lang siguro ko ani ug asa kutob. Wa nay sapi :)

Salamat JoeB for the info.

Taga Bogo

February 27th, 2009, 06:27 AM

@Taga-Bogo and anyone who is interested (and rich!), the following vintage photos of Cebu are up for bidding on eBay (under collectibles, type "Philippines" and see them there):

Nice ta and these are on my ebay since day 1 sa ilang listing. Kaso lang aning mga cebu pix, ambot ngano mas mahal man djud ni sila kaysa ubang pix of other places in the Philippines. Tayming tayming lang kung makakuha ka ba ug original collectibles pareja ani na bubarato.

Watching lang siguro ko ani ug asa kutob. Wa nay sapi :)

Salamat JoeB for the info.

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM

Nice ta and these are on my ebay since day 1 sa ilang listing. Kaso lang aning mga cebu pix, ambot ngano mas mahal man djud ni sila kaysa ubang pix of other places in the Philippines. Tayming tayming lang kung makakuha ka ba ug original collectibles pareja ani na bubarato.

Watching lang siguro ko ani ug asa kutob. Wa nay sapi :)

Salamat JoeB for the info.

welcome, Boy. i share your thoughts on the price of these eBay photos. too high and too stupid to be too high.

it's probably because there are also people (in the U.S. mostly) who are stupid enough to bid on these photos to an idiotic level, (like me somtimes) which is why i have stopped buying and am just resorting to making files of these photos. libre bitaw.

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM

gee

February 27th, 2009, 11:24 AM

gee

February 27th, 2009, 11:24 AM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 12:31 PM

archaeologue

February 27th, 2009, 12:31 PM

gee

February 27th, 2009, 08:01 PM

dili ra diay si lapulapu ang chieftain sa isla sa mactan!!%&$

from Fidel Villarroel, "Fernao de Magalhaes and Fray Bartolome de las Casas: Their convergence in the Philippines" in: Revista de Cultura, Edicao Internacional, 17 Janeiro 2006.

...let us transcribe here some significant passages of Pigafetta's chronicle:

One of the reason for the battle:"Zula [one of the two chiefs of Mactan] requested [Magellan] to help him fight against the other chief [Lapulapu]"

On Magellan reaching Mactan: "The captain did not wish to fight then, but sent message to the natives [i.e. the people of Lapulapu] that if they would obey the king of Spain, recognize the Christian king [of Cebu, Humabon] as their sovereign and pay us our tribute, they would be their friends; but if they wished otherwise, they should wait to see our lances wounded."

gee

February 27th, 2009, 08:01 PM

sanvalente

February 28th, 2009, 12:59 AM

^^

yup i noticed pod. I was actually wondering last night while i posted these photos, @Gee, why only Cebu photos have so many bidders. in fact, i was wondering maybe this is because Cebu has lots of collectors now based in the u.s.

you see, photos/postcards/real photo postcards (RPPC) and stereoviews from other places like zamboanga, sulu, even manila, have almost no bidders.

but cebu gani, gukuron dayon!

paet!

:bash:

hmmmnnn looks like it's snowballing.. there's a heritage revival now in
the city and the province and thanks to you guys... ha ha ha instrumental man pod diay mo niini - both sa revival and ebay prices, with that as my assumption...it's normal for the prices of these ebay items to shoot up .... maldito sab ni ang mga sellers kay usa ra gani ang mo bid unya dili kaabot sa ilang gusto nga presyo sila-sila ra pod mo bid aron motaas pag ayo. What we did sa philately was to organize a group, maka bantay na gani nga naa pay laing bidder nga medyo suspicious that's the time the others will join (of course dapat coordinated).

I tried bidding those old cebu pictures before but until now wa jud ko ka kuha.

maybe it's high time to create a common fund for acquisitions of these
rare items .. . i wonder if the CSC has a budget for this kind of acquisitions,
or they simply wait for donations. Big museums I think do spend a lot too.

sanvalente

February 28th, 2009, 12:59 AM

Taga Bogo

February 28th, 2009, 01:58 AM

hmmmnnn looks like it's snowballing.. there's a heritage revival now in
the city and the province and thanks to you guys... ha ha ha instrumental man pod diay mo niini - both sa revival and ebay prices, with that as my assumption...it's normal for the prices of these ebay items to shoot up .... maldito sab ni ang mga sellers kay usa ra gani ang mo bid unya dili kaabot sa ilang gusto nga presyo sila-sila ra pod mo bid aron motaas pag ayo. What we did sa philately was to organize a group, maka bantay na gani nga naa pay laing bidder nga medyo suspicious that's the time the others will join (of course dapat coordinated).

I tried bidding those old cebu pictures before but until now wa jud ko ka kuha.

maybe it's high time to create a common fund for acquisitions of these
rare items .. . i wonder if the CSC has a budget for this kind of acquisitions,
or they simply wait for donations. Big museums I think do spend a lot too.

"maldito sab ni ang mga sellers kay usa ra gani ang mo bid unya dili kaabot sa ilang gusto nga presyo sila-sila ra pod mo bid aron motaas pag ayo." - dako man ning controversy bisan diha sa manila mga 4 years ago, Medyo naaddress na ni sa auction company, pero naa pa djud siguro gihapon gusto lang mosoway.

Dili man lang karon lang, niadto pa man djud maka command ug better price ang cebu pix. Ambot kaha ngano daghang gusto sa cebu old pix.

Taga Bogo

February 28th, 2009, 01:58 AM

habagatcentral1

February 28th, 2009, 02:27 AM

habagatcentral1

February 28th, 2009, 02:27 AM

Taga Bogo

February 28th, 2009, 02:42 AM

welcome, Boy. i share your thoughts on the price of these eBay photos. too high and too stupid to be too high.

it's probably because there are also people (in the U.S. mostly) who are stupid enough to bid on these photos to an idiotic level, (like me somtimes) which is why i have stopped buying and am just resorting to making files of these photos. libre bitaw.

Here is one na taymingan, wa hibantayi sa uban.

A photo from an American perspective. The postmark at the back is dated May 24, 1907. What caught me on is the emotion attached to the photo. Here is a soldier, named Dan, in Cebu weeks by steam boat away from home writing to a Miss Blanche in Kansas City. By addressing the lady Miss Blanche, I assume she is someone admired by the soldier. The pose seems to indicate it is sent to someone with courtship as an interest. The longing and wanting to be home feeling must have been strong.

The picture makes the conqueror more human than how they were percieved at the time.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/CebuHorse01.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/CebuHorse02.jpg

Taga Bogo

February 28th, 2009, 02:42 AM

harveharve

February 28th, 2009, 08:25 AM

^^

on second thought, maybe sawali ra na? hahah...strange how hugely massive the middle buttress is ha.

perhaps these buttresses were added later because they look massively ugly.

some earthquake must have cracked this side somehow.

The top portion of the middle buttress looks somewhat slanted as compared to that near the transept, perhaps this was a later addition... but it looks huge! murag afterthought na gibutang... retrofitting for a semi-collapsed wall perhaps? hehe

On a different note, there are now 151 images on the SEADL website...

harveharve

February 28th, 2009, 08:25 AM

harveharve

February 28th, 2009, 03:43 PM

I'm not sure if this has been posted before. I enjoyed watching the restoration work in progress.

Boljoon Heritage Foundation

d1DJtWFO8bM

harveharve

February 28th, 2009, 03:43 PM

I'm not sure if this has been posted before. I enjoyed watching the restoration work in progress.

Boljoon Heritage Foundation

d1DJtWFO8bM

LordCarnal

March 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM

Cebu Metropolitan Cathedral, ongoing renovation in time for the 75th anniversary of the Archdiocese on April 28, 2009.

EXTERIORS

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral03.jpg

Renovation works are still ongoing. The cathedral plaza has just been paved with brick pavers.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral07.jpg

The 18th or 19th century facade of the cathedral.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral01.jpg

Notice the topmost part of the pediment, there are two figures. I think the one at the left side is carrying an anchor.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral02.jpg

INTERIORS

The chandeliers that will be inaugurated tomorrow 5 PM.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral04.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk242/cebuheritage/cathedral_feature/cebumetropolitancathedral05.jpg

LordCarnal

March 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM

goleyson

March 1st, 2009, 11:56 AM

^^
so there will be a chandelier raising ceremony tommorow

goleyson

March 1st, 2009, 11:56 AM

^^
so there will be a chandelier raising ceremony tommorow

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:23 PM

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/CebuHorse01.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/TagaBogo/Postcard/CebuHorse02.jpg

did you buy this photo, Boy? can you send me a scan for the museum? the message is as important as the postcard itself

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:23 PM

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:29 PM

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:29 PM

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:31 PM

maybe it's high time to create a common fund for acquisitions of these
rare items .. . i wonder if the CSC has a budget for this kind of acquisitions,
or they simply wait for donations. Big museums I think do spend a lot too.

CSC actually has already a large collection of old photos, mostly copied from private collections. unforutantely, i do not think it has the budget right now to purchase more.

but Museo Sugbo is quietly gathering old photos for a future book on old cebu.

archaeologue

March 1st, 2009, 06:31 PM

flesh_is_weak

March 1st, 2009, 10:09 PM

ngano si Erap man ang mo-lead sa lighting? malas baya na siya sa mga chandelier...(remember first 100 days in Malacañang) :lol:

@arnold: re: 2 figures: si Pedro siguro na ug si Pablo...

flesh_is_weak

March 1st, 2009, 10:09 PM

ngano si Erap man ang mo-lead sa lighting? malas baya na siya sa mga chandelier...(remember first 100 days in Malacañang) :lol:

@arnold: re: 2 figures: si Pedro siguro na ug si Pablo...

gee

March 2nd, 2009, 12:46 AM

yes, this was the chief who explained to Magellan through Humabon why he could not give more goats to the Spaniards as tribute. His answer: Lapu-lapu was harassing him and stealing his goats to prevent him from making his tribute.

kanding ra diay hinungdan sa kamatayon ni magellan!!!:lol:

here's the conclusion of villarroel:

...let me emphasize only some of the most relevant aspects of Magellan's presence in Cebu. Firstly, no force was used against the king of Cebu on arrival and landing. Secondly, the conversations between Magellan and Humabon were courteous and friendly, devoid of mutual suspicions or fears, and mostly about religious matters. Thirdly, let us mark this: the priest Fr. Juan de Valderrama administered to the natives the sacraments of the Church, but it was the layman Magellan who acted as catechist.

Let us also note that the fidelity sworn by Rajah Humabon to the king of Spain appears to have been made voluntarily and gladly. If Magellan ended his life in a battle against the datto of Mactan, Lauplapu, that battle was not provoked by Magellan. Rather he took part in it in a gesture of friendship towards another datto of Mactan, Zula, whom Magellan offered to defend and help against Lapulapu. On the other hand, it must be said that Lapulapu had the right to dissent from his neighboring datto and from the main ruler of Cebu, Humabon, and to resist the offer made by Magellan. Therefore, he fought for his independence, and his stand followed by his victory entitled him to be remembered as the first Filipino hero. But for his part, Magellan tried his best not to impose by force on anyone a foreign rule or a new religious faith. Most importantly, his voyage was one of discovery, not of conquest.

It may be said that Magellan's mistakes were only two: one was to procure the baptism of many Cebuanos without foreseeing that the neophytes would be abandoned to their fate without ministers to take care of their Christian growth; and the other was to have much audacity, temerity and rashness in engaging an unknown enemy in an unknown terrain. His loyalty to his Filipino friends gave him such temerity. Bartolome de Casas had described Magellan as "cautious and courageous." In the last days and moments of his life, he was actually more courageous than cautious.

gee

March 2nd, 2009, 12:46 AM