Zuma: 'Same-sex marriage is a disgrace'
POSTED: 1207 GMT (2007 HKT), September 27, 2006

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (Reuters) -- South Africa's former deputy president Jacob Zuma drew fresh controversy on Wednesday after he called homosexuality un-African and criticized plans to legalize same-sex marriages.

"Same-sex marriage is a disgrace to the nation and to God," Zuma was quoted as saying in the Sowetan newspaper at a Sunday gathering in his native KwaZulu-Natal to mark the country's Heritage Day.

"When I was growing up unqingili (homosexuals) could not stand in front of me," said Zuma, who is embroiled in a corruption scandal that resulted in his firing last year.

His views resonate with many in South Africa, where conservative Christians and traditionalist Africans have been united in their opposition to gay nuptials.

But they are in sharp contrast to the more liberal attitudes of post-apartheid South Africa, which has done everything to move away from the iron-fisted policies of the past and prides itself on its human rights record.

"Has Zuma forgotten South Africa's recent past; the state institutionalized discrimination, stigmatization and segregation?" the Joint Working Group, representing the country's biggest lesbian and gay groups, said late on Tuesday.

"It would seem Jacob Zuma still has a lot to learn about leadership. A true leader leads with intellect and wisdom -- not popularity or favor. How can a narrow-minded person like this be expected to lead our nation?" the JWG statement said.

President Thabo Mbeki fired Zuma after a court found he had had a "generally corrupt" relationship with a former aide, but Zuma still enjoys enthusiastic support from rank and file African National Congress members and the party's left-wing allies.

That backing has enabled him to keep his job as deputy president of the party and still within reach of the presidency after his corruption case was thrown out of court last week, reviving his hopes of succeeding Mbeki.

The ANC meets next year to elect its new leader, who is virtually assured of ascending to the top job when Mbeki steps down in 2009.

South Africa's highest court last year ordered parliament to enact laws to recognize gay marriages by December 1. If it fails to do so, the current definition of marriage will automatically change to include homosexual couples.

The country won wide praise in 1996 when its post-apartheid constitution became the first to recognize gay rights, but this has done little to stop homophobic attacks.

Like elsewhere in Africa, many South Africans regard homosexuality as a product of colonialism imported from the West and a threat to indigenous culture.

^^ Zuma is such a populist leader, because he'll say one thing infront of his one group of supporters (ie that same-sex marriage is a disgrace etc)...

But then about two days later, he apologises profusely and says his comments have been misinterpreted. He then goes on to recognise the intense role gays and lesbians have played in the struggle, as well as the important role they play in society today.

Uhhhhh.....?

Me thinks the populist leaders are the most dangerous. Moooobheki might be little far-removed from everything, but at least he has principles that he tends to stick by.

Nishinuwam Nishinuwam, :D

:lol: Durbsboi... you fucking crack me up dude!

:D

discuss good or bad zume as the next president? I mean corruption aside what is his core policies.
Im thinking as an investor who knows a little about Sa, not as a south african living there so I need to play this out in my head to understand the dude and what it means for my family in the future and what it means for my investments in SA.

Zuma is a real undecided dude, he doesnt know where his heading himself, his basicaly going with the flow, one things for sure, he has got a hell of a fan base! & when you question his fan base over the reasons they support him, they them selves dont know, but just love him. They give a dam that he has been imbesseling their money, as long as he is in power they are happy.
Not sure if he will do any good as president, but I doubt it.

:lol: Durbsboi... you fucking crack me up dude!

:D

Thanx bro, I try my best :tyty:

hey who read the star today look 4 the madam and eve its bout jz and his gay comments its a cracker

He'll have his cake, but ...

Rapule Tabane



29 September 2006 07:43


In a surprise move ANC Youth League leader Fikile Mbalula (right) has distanced the organisation from Jacob Zuma's remarks about gays and lesbians. (Photograph: Paul Botes)
South Africa looks increasingly headed towards two centres of power, with Jacob Zuma assuming the ANC presidency, but releasing the country’s reins to a compromise candidate more acceptable to the general populace.

Debate has already started in the ANC over a dual-power scenario. And some members of the party’s national executive committee (NEC) are known to have engaged the ANC Youth League, a key component of the Zuma support camp, in a bid to win it over. The league has so far vehemently opposed parallel power centres and has pressed for Zuma to take both posts.

However, it is now understood to be open to debate on the issue, given the backlash against some of Zuma’s public utterances. In an unusual move the league, on Wednesday, distanced itself from his outburst against gays.

On Thursday, Cosatu and the SACP, also staunch Zuma supporters, refused to comment on the issue. Zuma has since apologised for the remarks.

While the withdrawal of corruption and fraud charges against Zuma and his rape acquittal have moved him to pole position as the future ANC leader, it remains unclear whether ANC members will risk electoral support by nominating him for the country’s presidency in the 2009 elections.

The ANC has about 500 000 members, but more than 10-million non-members voted for the party in the 2004 national and 2006 local elections.

In addition to the unions and the SACP, Zuma has demonstrated his support across alliance structures in KwaZulu-Natal, but the jury is still out on whether he has nationwide appeal.

Senior ANC officials say they are working hard to find a credible candidate for the country’s presidency. They add that they will allow Zuma to go on campaigning if he chooses to, but will not give him credibility by opposing him.

A senior ANC official said Zuma would exhaust himself as he was unlikely to sustain the victimology message until the ANC’s national conference in December next year. “Once it becomes clear whom we have chosen, they will be campaigning inside the party structures -- not in Cosatu or outside structures,” the official said.

Within the broad Zuma front, the most likely compromise candidate to run the country is secretary general Kgalema Motlanthe. But businessperson and former Gauteng premier Tokyo Sexwale has also been touted as a candidate acceptable to the youth league and particularly those with business aspirations.

Sexwale recently addressed the 62nd league conference, where he questioned why speculation about the ANC succession race was confined to Mbeki and Zuma.

Meanwhile, developments this week underscored the support Zuma can expect from ANC luminaries who have been sidelined or jailed as a result of investigations by the Scorpions. They include former Limpopo premier Ngoako Ramatlhodi, once tipped for a Cabinet post, but consigned to the political wilderness after the Scorpions investigated him over alleged corruption, and former ANC chief whip Tony Yengeni, serving a four-year sentence for defrauding Parliament.

A member of the ANC’s NEC, Ramatlhodi also lost out on the position of head of the National Prosecuting Authority, for which he seemed destined.

At the weekend Ramatlhodi arrived uninvited at a Free State provincial council meeting in Bloemfontein, where he attacked party president Mbeki and declared that people were being targeted by the prosecuting authorities for no reason. “What is this shit? People are being targeted for nothing, look at what happened to Zuma, Yengeni and [former Free State ANC secretary] Pat Matosa,” he allegedly said.

Ramatlhodi is reported to have told the meeting that Mbeki was the cause of division in the ANC and boasted about challenging the latter’s autocratic leadership style.

Ramatlhodi has frequently been at Zuma’s side in recent months. It is believed he rushed to Bloemfontein to counter an earlier presentation to the meeting by ANC national working committee member Joel Netshitenzhe, a close Mbeki ally. Ramatlhodi was not scheduled to speak, but apparently said he had been sent by Motlanthe.

Netshitenzhe had presented his discussion document, Challenges of Leadership, which looks at the different leadership scenarios available to the party over the next few years.

But some at the meeting believed he had used the discussion to attack Zuma, without mentioning him by name. The presentation included an attack on the SACP for moving away from its original ideological position.

The provincial general council was attended by about 700 branch and regional delegates, many of whom will be voting delegates at next year’s ANC conference.

I doubt he will become president. The ANC is divided on the issue and will go for a compromise candidate. Note how it is the unions and SACP making all the noise NOT ANC members. Even the left is not united behind him as don’t forget he was deputy president when the current economic policy was introduced. Also you have to factor in the fact he is a Zulu and the majority of ANC members are Xhosa. How many pro zuma rallies have been held in the Eastern Cape?

I think if Jacob Zuma becomes President SA will go down the tubes. I've actually heard of SA people who plan to emigrate abroad if this doomsday scenario happens.

http://www.dsc-arminia-bielefeld.de/typo3temp/pics/9a4fc83a0f.jpg
he's alright

hahahaha!!!
are they related? and when is going to play for bafana bafana again?

^^ nope he's related to these guys
http://www.weltfussball.de/bilder/spieler/gross/19830.jpg
Romaric
http://www.ad.nl/multimedia/archive/00032/kon__32501a.jpg
Aruna Kone
http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/abel_xavier.jpg
Abel Xavier
http://www.wldcup.com/pictures/euro2004/44691.jpg
David James
http://www.maraton.com.tr/qHUsMbuK28cYW/images/news_images/12096_1_060711212213.jpg
Djibril Cisse
http://www.ledouziemegainde.com/cartes/images/Diouf-Cisee%20en%20conference%20de%20presse.jpg
El Hadji Diouf

and perhaps even this guy
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/mandela.jpg

Imagine Madiba being related to Zuma, those are too very different minds.

Zuma was interviewd yesterday on BBC, I heard that every caller lashed at him. It was reported that even people from outside South Africa were even rude to him and not approving him as South African President.

I thought a 'Zuma' is a kind of condom? Ain't those the free condoms govt rolled out awhile ago? Ironically the honorable didn't use them himself when raping that girl.

Intresting fact, most of those guys in Dovelings post once played for Liverpool :D

1.Abel Xavier
2. David James
3. Djibril Cisse
4. El Hadji Diuof

Fax that sunk Shaik may bring Zuma down

November 07 2006 at 06:33AM

Read the full judgment.

By Gill Gifford and Karyn Maughan

The notorious encrypted fax - admitted in court as proof that Schabir Shaik solicited a bribe for Jacob Zuma - is a piece of paper that sunk Shaik, and may have damning implications for Zuma.

The fax, described as the spectre of corruption related to the arms deal, featured prominently in the Supreme Court of Appeal judgment on Monday that has sent the former deputy president's financial adviser on his way to jail.

In the 92-page, full-bench judgment, it was stated that in respect of the Durban High Court corruption conviction of Shaik, the "evidential foundation which is the handwritten draft and actual encrypted fax" was undisputably a draft message written by Alain Thetard, the representative of French arms manufacturing firm Thomson (now known as Thint).




"The court accepted that the plain and obvious meaning of the fax is that a proposed arrangement discussed at two previous meetings by Shaik and Thetard on September 30, 1999, in Durban and by Thetard and Jean-Paul Perrier (formerly of Thint) on November 10 1999 in Paris, respectively, was confirmed at a third meeting in Durban on March 11 2000 involving Shaik, Thetard and Zuma, and an agreement was reached on that proposal," the judgment stated.

Trial Judge Hilary Squires found that the fax "spoke for itself" - setting out the arrangements and terms of a R500 000 bribe for Zuma - and that is was admissible.

The fax was one of the major pieces of evidence used by Judge Squires to convict Shaik before sentencing him to 15 years' jail.

The charge of corruption, related to soliciting a R500 000 bribe from Thomson for Zuma, was mainly based on the encrypted fax.

The state submitted that Zuma, in return for the money, would protect the company in relation to the inquiry into the arms deal and to promote its interests.

Shaik's answer to the fax was that he had no idea why Thetard composed the document, and he claimed not to have been aware of it until he saw it reproduced in the media.

He explained that the R500 000 payment was a donation to the Jacob Zuma Education Trust.

The court upheld that the trust anticipated no such donation from Thint, and Shaik's explanation was rejected.

Monday's ruling in favour of the admissibility of the fax may have dire consequences for Zuma because it implicates him in corrupt dealings.

Zuma will be president, but he knows he'll be watched like the hawk. So I reckon he won't make a bad president. There is absolutely no way he'll ever be convicted of anything, so I think we all need to just brace ourselves for the eventuality and live with it. Those wanting to leave the country are probably the same ones who stocked up on canned food in 1994... :ohno: Zuma as president won't mean the end of the world. I don't like him, but I don't begrudge him being leader of the country.

I agree with you totally caisson boy I think the reaction to a zuma leadership is hysteria from some whites. Although as I lawyer I can say that my betting is that he will be charged esp if the supreme court allows the appeal over the legality of the house raids. Also the ANC has always gone for a comprimise and I still think they will come up with a candidate that all can supprt. Dont forget that Zuma is certainly not liked by all ANC provinces most notably North West, Gauteng, Western Cape and the big one the eastern cape is split on the issue and have already said they want a comprimise. Also the womens league dont support him. And the SABC dont do him any favours either and often the african language radio stations are SABC controlled. Im not saying he wont be pres but it will be very hard for him.

But Shaiks appeal being turned down obviously proves theres something fishy going on & for the state not to retrial Zuma will be wrong. Cos if theres conclusive evidence that Shaik is guilty, then that same evidence should put Zuma away!

Theres too much internal corruption going on, from the heists to the kebble murder to the Shaik trial, this government needs to sort them selves out, cos the guys that are doing the corrupt stuff are going over board & if they not carefull they could land this country in deep deep trouble!

Editor defends radical comment

November 11 2006 at 12:40PM

By Peter Fabricius

The Botswana newspaper columnist who outraged many whites by suggesting Jacob Zuma should become president so he can "re-distribute white women" among his supporters had been misunderstood, his editor insisted on Friday.

"He was only satirising Zuma," said Outsa Mokone, editor of the Sunday Standard of Gaborone, which publishes a weekly column by a writer identified only as "Loose Canon".

"If you read all his columns, you would understand this," Mokone said.


'He has had a go at everyone'
The offending column was published on October 15 under the title "President Zuma will sort out white people". In the column, Loose Canon backed Zuma in the leadership contest because he said he would sort out whites who had shown no gratitude to blacks for not taking revenge on them for the sins of apartheid.

Loose Canon suggested it was "not too late to hang a few whites at the local stadium just to remind them who is in charge".
President Zuma would be "a fun guy.�…But as part of sorting out ungrateful white people, I want him to embark on a re-distribution exercise. I want him to distribute white women among the long-suffering black chaps in South Africa".

The column has provoked a storm of criticism, mainly among whites, in Botswana and South Africa, who have accused the columnist and the paper of racism, sexism, hate speech and inciting rape.

But Mokone insisted the column was a satire on Zuma's attitudes and that if irate whites read it in the context of all of Loose Canon's columns, they would understand this.

"He has had a go at everyone, blacks, Indians, whites, Muslims and even himself. He's taking a dig at Zuma in that column and he has taken a dig at him before. In another one of his columns he also said he liked Zuma because Zuma told the court he had taken a shower after sex to prevent getting Aids."

A Botswana official echoed Mokone, saying that "while distasteful, the article is not worthy of the concern being voiced by some" - including at least one embassy.

Most of the whites who had complained about the column were expatriates, he said. "Like most genuine locals, I know that 'Loose Canon' is written as satire, not a serious column.

"The local tradition, rooted in kgotla discourse, traditional poetry etc, is to tolerate almost any comment however crude. Setswana discourse can be both very crude and very polite, depending on the cultural context."
o This article was originally published on page 3 of The Independent on Saturday on November 11, 2006

I am just glad we have The Scorpions and the Khampempe commission recommended to keep them independent of the police and the president seems to have given it his unconditional support. These guys are doing such a great job. I have always believed that it is institutions like this that hopefully will ensure that our hard earned democracy does not go down the drains and render South Africa into a basket case like most African countries. This is why the National Prosecutions Authority, Constitutional Court and other similar bodies are such important instruments of our democracy.

Regarding Zuma, i don't think he is just going to change things radically if he assumes power. Things are probably going to just carry on as normal. He has been in the government long enough to know what not to do and there is way too many clever people within the ANC to just allow anyone to wipe out all the good things achieved in the last 12 years. On the contrary he is most probably just going to continue on the foundation already laid by the Mbeki government. He might even become tough on corruption, having experienced first hand what it can do to a political career. I think what he is doing now, is simply what any politician campaigning for election would do.

I am just glad we have The Scorpions .

Dont say that too soon, cos there is hectic corruption in them as well, but at least they weeding out the other dirt, so some parts are getting cleaned up.

Shabir Shaiks in St Augustines hospital , ........if anyone wants to pay him a visit

^^ i hate that dude...u scratch a politicians back and claim innocence...and he still gets preferential treatment? i wont be happy until zuma is behind bars.

^^U know that will never happen, & if it did happen his whole support clan will ramping the country with their nshiniwams, "apparently" Shaik is fitting the bill for the hospital & the sercurity

^^ well then a carefully aimed shot is needed

LOL!

A massive blow to the zuma camp as the eastern cape is by far the largest voting block at the ANC conferance next year. Without the eastern cape zuma will really struggle to win nomination as ANC president elect.


ANC Eastern Cape backs Mbeki for third term
Amy Musgrave

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Special Report: The ANC Succession Race



Political Correspondent

IN A major boost for President Thabo Mbeki’s supporters in the African National Congress (ANC) succession race, the party’s powerful Eastern Cape region yesterday gave its backing to Mbeki should he stand for party leader for a third term next year.

The resolution came at the provincial ANC’s three-yearly conference in Alice, soon after Mbeki loyalist Stone Sizani was named new provincial chairman.

Mbeki himself has not ruled out a third term as party leader, a move which could potentially frustrate supporters of ANC deputy president Jacob Zuma.

The ANC constitution does not stipulate how many terms a party president may serve.

Earlier, in a curtain-raiser to the looming battle for the ANC presidency next year, Sizani beat off the challenge of former Eastern Cape Development Corporation head Mcebisi Jonas, to replace former premier, Sports Minister Makhenkesi Stofile, who headed the party in the province for 10 years and had decided not to stand for re-election.

Jonas was backed by Zuma supporters even though he is not known as an explicitly Zuma supporter.


The showdown was the first of many provincial dress-rehearsals in a fierce battle for control of the ANC between Mbeki- and Zuma-aligned forces expected at the party’s national conference next December. The ANC in Eastern Cape will be the largest voting bloc at the conference, with a decisive say on the outcome.
In August, the ANC regional leadership of the Nelson Mandela Bay Metro, of which Sizani is chairman, pledged to campaign for Mbeki’s re-election as party president.

Regional secretary Vuyo Toto said then that Sizani’s election would reinforce efforts to have the province vote for him at the provincial conference.

At the weekend, the ANC succession battle saw Mbeki being heckled by Zuma supporters at an event attended by both leaders in KwaZulu-Natal on Saturday.

After being elected, Sizani told delegates to the provincial conference, held at Fort Hare University, that he faced a “huge task” in overcoming the factionalism and divisions that have threatened to cripple the party.

Sizani said he felt humbled by the responsibility he had been given. He said he was apprehensive because so many branches that did not meet accreditation requirements had not attended the conference, which takes place every three years.

“My biggest worry is the task ahead to unite everybody behind the programme of the ANC and the responsibility to build our future. The biggest challenge facing all of us is to make sure that those people who could not vote because they could not come here, and those people who did come and voted for the other candidate, and the people who voted for us, should be brought together under the umbrella of the organisation to make sure we’re not only united, but that we build a strong organisation,” he said.

Sizani’s deputy is provincial economic dev-elopment MEC Mbulelo Sogoni. The new provincial secretary is boxing promoter Sephatho Handi. With Sapa

President Thabo Mbeki has finally gained control over the unruly and deeply divided Eastern Cape African National Congress.

The province on Sunday formally endorsed him for a third term as party president.

It comes a day after he was humiliated in KwaZulu-Natal, where he was snubbed and insulted by a large crowd of ANC and South Africa Communist Party supporters attending the reburial of Moses Mabhida, making clear their backing for ANC deputy president Jacob Zuma.

Candidates aligned to the president on Sunday made a clean sweep of the top five Eastern Cape executive positions, which since the 1990s have largely been controlled by a populist grouping. None of the outgoing top five was returned to power.

Significantly, the congress adopted two special resolutions that throw the provincial ANC's weight squarely behind Mbeki.

It became the first province to formally endorse a third term for Mbeki as president of the ANC, and was backed by the ANC Youth League, whose national body is openly backing Zuma.

The delegates said Mbeki, "when approached, must (be encouraged) to avail himself for a third term" and agreed that this was necessary "in the light of the many challenges the country faces".

However, this should not be read as an endorsement of Mbeki for a third term as president, which would require a constitutional amendment.

An Mbeki ally, Deputy Defence Minister Mluleki George, said on Sunday: "We are very clear this is only for the presidency of the ANC. We do not want to tamper with the constitution."

The pro-Mbeki Nelson Mandela region sponsored the resolution from the floor on Sunday afternoon. It was "strongly supported" by the Alfred Nzo region.

In another resolution condemning Saturday's humiliation of Mbeki, it called on the ruling party's top leadership to condemn not only "any action to undermine the president of the ANC" but also "to deal decisively against any member of the ANC found to be involved" in such acts.

For four decades, all ANC presidents have hailed from the Eastern Cape.

Mbeki delivered the keynote address to the congress on Friday and warned that careerism was endangering the provincial ANC's proud history and the significant role it had played in the party nationally.

Senior ANC members have interpreted the regime change in the province as an indication that Mbeki and his allies in the ruling party's national executive committee have won half the battle to ensure that they determine the ANC national succession next year.

This was because the Eastern Cape is traditionally by far the largest voting bloc in the ANC and therefore has a disproportionate influence on both policy and leadership choices.

How was Zuma's supporters behaving that day they were rebuiring someone, they were booing Mbeki & chanting Zuma's song all the time. I mean his your president for god sake! how can you show such shitty behaviour towards him. Bunch of physco's if you ask me.