Bring in the army!
Cash heists prompt call for soldiers to help fight crime wave
http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/articles/article.aspx?ID=ST6A212749
15 October 2006
ISAAC MAHLANGU, BUDDY NAIDU and THABO MKHIZE

DESPERATE cash-in-transit guards are appealing to the government to deploy heavily armed SANDF troops to protect them as they enter the festive season, which is notorious for an escalation in violent gang robberies.

They are to meet national Police Commissioner Jackie Selebi tomorrow morning — in the wake of two more cash-heist attacks yesterday that cost another guard his life.

The guard was killed and another was wounded in a heist in Durban; in a separate incident, a gang of 16 made off with an undisclosed sum following a robbery in Johannesburg.

Earlier this week, a cash-in-transit heist in central Johannesburg claimed the youngest victim of the scourge, 15-month-old Khensani Mitileni, who was shot dead on Tuesday while strapped to her mother’s back.

At a meeting scheduled for 10am in Tshwane, the Federation of Unions of South Africa (Fedusa) — which has more than 500000 members — and its affiliate, the 5000-strong Motor Transport Workers’ Union (MTWU), will tell Selebi that their members are powerless against the brazen gangs that kill with impunity.

They want Selebi to agree to bring in the military to protect guards and the public when money is moved in cities, shopping centres and malls.

They will tell Selebi it is “suicidal” to send guards armed with 9mm pistols to defend cash against criminals armed with AK-47s.

And they will tell him that security guards are unable to perform their jobs because they fear being shot dead or burnt alive.

Armed troops were last seen on South Africa’s streets in the dying days of apartheid when the National Party government was battling to keep a lid on township violence. The South African government is known to be cautious about deploying troops to do police work as this would militarise society and create a siege psychosis.

Emily Fourie, general secretary of the MTWU, said yesterday that the call was backed by South Africa’s top cash-management companies, Fidelity, SBV and Coin Security, who move billions of rands countrywide.

Wahl Bartmann, chief executive of Fidelity Springbok Security Services, said the government needed to be more involved in fighting cash-in-transit heists. He supported the call for the army to be brought in.

“These people will do anything for money,” he said — and the army would be better equipped to fight off cash-in-transit gangs, who were often former military people.

He said guards were outnumbered and outgunned by well-organised gangs who travelled in groups of more than 10 and carried automatic weapons.

Fourie said the death of Baby Khensani this week was the final straw.

As the picture of her body lying in a street made front pages around the country, cash-in-transit guards were threatening a national strike.

Such action would have plunged the country into a crisis as billions of rands would not have been banked or moved.

But the strike was averted late on Friday, following talks between Fedusa, MTWU and Fidelity, Coin Security and SBV.


Fourie said security guards had to bear the brunt of the murder and mayhem.

“They are so traumatised. If they are lucky enough to survive a heist, they are then put on a lie-detector to find out if they were involved.

“If they hand the money over, they are asked why they gave in so easily ... They cannot win.”

Grant Dunnington is chief executive of SBV, which last month had to deal with the gruesome deaths of three of its guards, who were burnt to death after a gang doused their van with petrol and set it alight in a heist in Limpopo.

He said: “Any additional support would be welcomed. It is up to the police to ask for the military to assist if they cannot provide the support.

“We support Emily Fourie in terms of what she needs, and we asked her if she wanted us to go with her to the police commissioner, but she wanted to go on her own,” he said.

According to the latest crime statistics cash-in-transit heists have surged by 74% in the past year.

Personally I feel we should bring in the SANDF, because I think the occurances of cash-in-transit heights, and the completely brazen nature of these thugs, has become really out of hand.

I think what did it for me was the shoot out in the Joburg CBC the other day, and the killing of that baby. It showed that these assholes really have no respect for anything, and I really think it's time that we, as the good people of SA who hold much hope for it, step in and do something about it.

Calling in the SANDF might hurt our image in the short term, as tourists and the like might see our country as a militant one, and one that should therefore be avoided...

But in the long run, I think such a measure will really help us out, because the fact is that current law enforcement techniques are just not working well enough, and we need to sort it out NOW, because the last thing we need is a similar shoot out in any one of our cities (as this is a countrywide problem) during the World Cup.

I have no problem with bringing in the army. I think they should be used in places like hillbrow etc and in our city centres. After all last year more citizens of SA were killed than citizens of iraq so its not as if the army is not needed. Also send them into the townships to make huge sweeps for firearms etc. I bet if the SANDF went into the cape flats in full force they could sort out cape towns illegal firearms problem in a few days.

They must brigng in the army, pelnty of people who come into the country knows that we are a very violent society and they should be told that the army is there for the protection of the innocent.

Instead od dealing with crime, the ANC is fighting for power of Cape Town. Do they want to turn CT into another South African violent city. When were in Cape Town, my girlfriend told me that she has never felt so safe. I mean we were walking around with our cameras without fearing to be mugged or anything. We used to but things on street without having to check as to who's overlooking us. Yes, the might in CT must I must say that its a very safe city in South Africa.

Mbeki and his compatriots must pull fingures out of thier asses and save the society. How many people should be killed before they do something about this crime.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20061017014334611C277589


"The constitution of the country does not allow the army to be used internally against its own people, even when they are heavily armed robbers" Fourie said.

Own people, they fcken call criminals own people.

I think we ther professionals must leave the country so that South Africa experience more of skill shortage problem as we are the main targets of these criminals. We pay huge amounts towards tax but we are the least safe people in this country, the FCKN government must wake up.

These kinda shit make me feel ill. The government are idiots- who're getting fatter by the day and are more interested in stealing taxpayers money than protecting them. They simply listen to advice from the so-called educated people who influence decision making- These same fuckinh idiots that outlawed corporal and capital punishments, resulting in these unspeakable disrespect for everything. These people are the real criminals who empowered -& still do- the monsters currently running amock.
The president should wake the fuck up, push the godless-damend constitution aside and do what's right: protecting the people of this country, which does not include murders and rapists.

Criminals stealing cash from armed security is one thing, but MP's involved in the travelgate scam, & now cases of MP's being involved in drug smuggling & helping criminals escape from jail! now thats scary shit right there!

Harberk, theres only one thing that Mr Mbeki MUST do, I know its inhumane, but its the only way BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY!

It will solve the problem to the over packed prisons,
lesson the murder & rape rate

South Africa might be suprised by the lack of attence in 2010 because of this crime issue. I mean they all are busy telling people that they will be safe in 2010 and they have got the plan to fight crime in 2010, who the fvck will believe that? Why don't they start implementing proper measures now.

Crime is affecting the economy and therefore resulting in joblessness. The paying police peanuts while they themselves are earning big bucks. Who knows if the former Apla/MK solders are the ones who are creating all the instability in the country because the government just deserted them.?

No, you don't ned the army, you need MASS DEPORTATION of illegals. The people who carry out the cash heists are not South Africans. They are Nigerians, Zimbabweans, Mozambicans, Congolese and people from everywhere else. There are 120,000 undocumented non-South Africans in downtown Joburg alone. Reclaim Walvis Bay and turn it into a GIANT detention centre for all 4 million + illegals living in South Africa.

^^ Nope.. disagree totally. Let's not blame illegal immigrants - we need to look at ourselves first. We, as South Africans, are the ones who have issues. Being xenophobic not only shifts the scapegoat for all this crime to a very vulnerable group, but it encourages a society based on hate and superiority. And this is wrong.

We have problems - but blaming a particular group is as bad as Hitler blaming Jews for Germany's problems.

im all for mass deportation of illegals. its not the solution to the crime problem but its something id bring about if I was president for a day.

switch on the electric fences along the border, cause they keep coming back. Too many are crossing...the lions & crocs can't cope!

switch on the electric fences along the border, cause they keep coming back. Too many are crossing...the lions & crocs can't cope!

LOL - I am with you Sweety .. let's put on the leathers and man the whips.

switch on the electric fences along the border, cause they keep coming back. Too many are crossing...the lions & crocs can't cope!

The Berlin wall worked wonders in keeping East Germans inside East Germany.
A new Berlin wall along all around South Africa's land borders, complete with thousands of armed guards, would do wonders in keeping out illegal aliens.

^^ You think so ?
What about the border between Mexico and the States?
It looks like this :
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/immigration/tijuana-border-04.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/05/16/border-mexico-large.jpg
and the border is maybe longer than the ones of SA with their neighbours
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/images/us-mexico-border.jpg

but the Mexicans are still getting in

line the south africa border with killer dogs and fences.:)

just put the army onto it. I mean what else do they do all day but sit around dying of Aids? Line the border with the army with a shoot to kill policy and that will not only stop illegals but also reduce hijacking etc.

Just have a moat with snakes in it, nobody likes snakes!

use ur brains guys, bringing in the army is the last thing u want to do. FORCE the security companies to use proper armoured vehicles. FORCE them to provide better safety to their employees. And install equipment that instantly destroys (not dyes) the notes in the vans.

If you want the army, u telling me you are going to place them at every mall in the country? every collection point? sometimes i think you people are off your heads

use ur brains guys, bringing in the army is the last thing u want to do. FORCE the security companies to use proper armoured vehicles. FORCE them to provide better safety to their employees. And install equipment that instantly destroys (not dyes) the notes in the vans.

If you want the army, u telling me you are going to place them at every mall in the country? every collection point? sometimes i think you people are off your heads

Quite right. The army is hardly trained for anything like this and are absolutely certain to make problems worse. You are going to get these guys hosing down the streets even more than the crooks. Many countries have similar laws after experiencing their own army being involved in this sort of thing.

Regarding keeping foreigners out - its impossible - all above "solutions" are complete fantasy. No country with a signficant land border with poor country can keep them out without going completely against virtually human right enshrined in the constitution. The very effort to keep them out makes things worse by making widespread corruption in the units of the government tasked with keeping them out - money, sex, blackmail to stay; forgery, etc. By preventing desperate people from finding legal work you nearly guarantee their being forced into crime.

Regarding keeping foreigners out - its impossible - all above "solutions" are complete fantasy. No country with a signficant land border with poor country can keep them out without going completely against virtually human right enshrined in the constitution. The very effort to keep them out makes things worse by making widespread corruption in the units of the government tasked with keeping them out - money, sex, blackmail to stay; forgery, etc. By preventing desperate people from finding legal work you nearly guarantee their being forced into crime.

There is absolutely no way that South Africa can handle 4 - 6 million poor unskilled illegal immigrants in the country. Even if South Africa practiced an open-door immigration policy, there aren't any jobs for the illegals flooding in.
Which is why I advocate buying back Walvis Bay from Namibia and sending every illegal immigrant found in the country over there. What they do in Walvis Bay will be their business.

There is absolutely no way that South Africa can handle 4 - 6 million poor unskilled illegal immigrants in the country. Even if South Africa practiced an open-door immigration policy, there aren't any jobs for the illegals flooding in.
Which is why I advocate buying back Walvis Bay from Namibia and sending every illegal immigrant found in the country over there. What they do in Walvis Bay will be their business.

Thats such a great idea. So Namibia, who basically fought for this enclave for decades will hand it over so that 6 million "unskilled migrants" can be kept on top of them in this prison (probably holding more people than every other prison on earth combined) right inside their doorstep. Naturally we can easily move them there with our huge naval fleet, overnight build a city the size of Johannesburg in the desert to hold them there, and can easily enforce their stay there with our millions of uncorruptable wardens who will feed them out of their own pockets. And of course the whole world will applaud our clever humanitarian move. And of course naturally, this will immediately stop anyone else trying to cross the border.

Alternatively - South Africa ALREADY handles 4-6 million illegals. The place runs doesnt it? Most people just dislike them as they are simply prepared to work for lower wages. South Africans cause most of the crime - most of the countries these people come from virtually have no crime. If they start committing it in SA its largely because lack of alternatives or they have been corrupted by our society.

true. have you guys read about the corruption scandal at home affairs offices across the country? God, they should send the army in there! There they hand out permits and id's to illegals, like lube & fl's at the sauna!