Guys, what is your opinion about big international department stores, like Carrefour, Wal-Mart, Tesco, Sainsbury's and Asda?
I only shop at them when overseas. it's like a Macdonald's or KFC. You know what you're getting.
It would be so awesome to have these stores in SA. They are big, clean, have great variety of products with great discounts. They would put Shoprite out of business in no time, by bringing in quality and service!
What's the chance of them coming here anytime?

Sainsbury's afterwhich Woolworths is modeled.
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http://www.explore-stirling.com/images/shops/tesco-1.jpg

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Dunno.. I think if you've seen one grocery store, you've pretty much seen them all. There are of course exceptions.. Woolworths is nice minus the fact that you always freeze in them. But Pick 'n Pay and Game are as good/bad as Tesco and Game are.

What I'd like to see are some nice South African department stores developing... speciality stores, you know? Sort of like how Stuttafords/Greatermans/Garlicks used to be. Stuttafords is such a boring store nowadays.

yeah, we did have some nice stores back in the days...when I had no buying power!

Well SPAR aint bad, & its growing internationaly, but what is growing BIG time over sea's is some of our food outlets, Nando's, Spur & Steer's in particular.

Nando's is becoming more & more popular in Uk & relatives of mine who have visted SA, are buying the Nando's more regular cos they enjoyed what they had in SA. As for Spur, its taking Aus by storm, there is one in Sydeny in particular, its about 45min drive outside Sydney, but people dont mind making the trip simply because they enjoy the food, & its not only the ex- south african's that go there, the locals find there food quite good, Steer's is also doing well in Australia, Maybe I should go open a chicken licken there :crazy: iz good good good, iz good iz Nice :D

None of those overseas brands offer anything exceptional that our own stores don't offer. I'd prefer the SA stores to prosper. Like joburg said we only need a couple of the big Garlicks type department stores, so if Selfridges wants to open up here...

So Nando's is from South Africa, I thought it was from Portugal or Brazil!

So Nando's is from South Africa, I thought it was from Portugal or Brazil!

Its proudly South African!

I enjoy the SA shops when I am there, they are compared to the Dutch shops way better. As for Wall Mart or Tesco's, they aren't any different from a Hyperama or Game. Really you guys have some fine stores and maybe better than the ones mentioned in the opening post.
Plus for me as a European "tourist" the pricing in SA is very attracktive plus I get a 14% bonus if I claim back the VAT on the airport before returning home.
Call me crazy but the Clicks own brand shaving foam menthol is the best there is, last time I bought 7 so I have a small buffer.

^^ hehe, we all stock up on wierd items when we go to other countries....mine is bisto instant gravy in the uk, much better than the local version.

But yeh, i dont rate those stores as any better than the local ones. and walmart is a goliath and really bad for host markets, it canibalises industry and is no good.

And i love that nando's is becoming so prominent internationally!!!

none of those stores are any better that our ones infact many of ours are much better. and woolworths is modeled on marks and spencer not sainsburys.

i prefer importing my D&G....once big brands come to RSA..everyone will be wearing the same stuff due to the limited range in the overpriced stores...

another thing this attitude that everything from overseas is better than what we have here is such shit. Our shops are on a par with what the UK has and my local pick n' pay is clean, well stocked, the staff are great and its way cheaper than any tesco or sainsburys. and woolies is way better than its uk equivalent of m+s.

And i personally dont see the value in top international brands...what rip offs! give me local designers any day. the clothing is better!

As a foreigner who's been shopping in SA for nearly 20 years, I see little or no difference between the quality of shopping in SA vs. elsewhere. As far as quality, product offerings, etc., there's no reason for foreign retailers to enter the country.

My wife, mom, grandmother, aunts all have no complaints about grocery shopping in SA. Obviously there are a few American items that we bring with us, just as South Africans bring a few SA items overseas when they travel, but by and large SA lacks nothing. And I LOVE those prices!!! :)

Harkerb, don't worry, you guys aren't missing out on much.

Wal-Mart and ASDA especially, are hated brands with hated stores. Down with big-box shopping!

Your Woolworth's on the other hand, look to be nicer than our grocery stores here, or atleast more attractive. It seems to be going for that same 'lifestyle' model that the grocery stores here are changing too.

And i personally dont see the value in top international brands...what rip offs! give me local designers any day. the clothing is better!

not YDE...

Well SPAR aint bad, & its growing internationaly, but what is growing BIG time over sea's is some of our food outlets, Nando's, Spur & Steer's in particular.

Nando's is becoming more & more popular in Uk & relatives of mine who have visted SA, are buying the Nando's more regular cos they enjoyed what they had in SA. As for Spur, its taking Aus by storm, there is one in Sydeny in particular, its about 45min drive outside Sydney, but people dont mind making the trip simply because they enjoy the food, & its not only the ex- south african's that go there, the locals find there food quite good, Steer's is also doing well in Australia, Maybe I should go open a chicken licken there :crazy: iz good good good, iz good iz Nice :D

Yip that spur is in Penrith Panthers leauge club complex and its OK, not the best one
Havent seen steers in OZ but here in Dubai we have Nando, debinairs, the meat (and wine co), the buthcher shop and grill, actually off the butcher shop for lunch
ciao

PnP is the best, we love it and always bring ,oads of stuff back to Dubai with us. PnP is actually better than coles and Woolies in OZ and better than Carrefore ,geant and the dubai chains of spinnys and choithrams.
I was also impressed with the new Spars as they seem to be better than when I remember them

Thinking of opening a Nando's in the Windy's for next year's world cup, the only thing thats stoping me is their slow construction of the stadiums, if they'd showed more iniative, perhaps I could have already be there sitting on the beach sipping my drink while my store gets ready!

What I especially don't like about Tesco is that (1) They are killing smaller, family-owned business in the UK and (2) They exploit African labour (including S.Afr.) to get cheap products to sell at a massive profit margin.

What I do like about Tesco, Sainsbury's and ASDA is that they often have BOGOF offers. Buy One Get One Free. We don't see those too often here. And some Tesco stores are open 24/7. That is convenient. The other thing that I like (although this has more to do with the law than with the supermarkets themselves) is that they sell alcohol (all types of liquor) at all times if I remember correctly. Not like the wine rack that closes in the evening here. They do wines, malts and spirits!

But quality-wise (apart from Shoprite), our Supermarkets offer great products and great service in general, especially Spar, Checkers and Pick'n Pay (granted, there are always bad branches too). And Woolies is just in a league of its own - much nicer than Marks & Sparks! And I'm glad to see that they are upping the stakes in the clothing department too, although this is the thing that is really dragging M&S down at the moment. People don't want to wear their clothes any more!

The one thing that Spar and Woolies are understanding very well i.m.o. is the need for smaller convenience-type stores too. I love Woolies food shops, they are great!

of course wollie in sa, forgot about them. went to a great one in Green point the other day, just like a coles express of a M&S express, small and loads of ready to cook meals

Mr Price is like an H&M but better priced !!

the greeen point woolworths is a regular stop of mine on the way home!!! its a great shop in a really really awesome area.

PnP, Nandos, KFC, Woolies, Spar, Chicken Licken etc have changed their image lately. If you have been in South Africa baout 2 years agoo, then you in for a new look of almost all of these.

the greeen point woolworths is a regular stop of mine on the way home!!! its a great shop in a really really awesome area.

and a super place to find to bump into a gay guy..lol

Now you guys are talking about local shops. btw KFC and Spar (Swiss & biggest grocer chain in the world) ain't local. And I'm not saying that SA products ain't good, it's just we need better competition, by bringing in big fresh faces. We basically just have PnP & Shoprite /Checkers controlling the market. Having said that, I'm pretty much impress with Checkers.
On the note of SA products- the funny thing is, when I'm abroad, I tend to only buy SA wines, fruits and whatever I find. Reason being they are of the highest quality, eventhough they are more pricey than other similar goods. Here in my local Korean Tesco/Homeplus, Ive found Bellingham & Robertson wines, Koo, and Ceres juices. No Nandos though :(

ate at the butcher shop yesterday and had boerewors to start followed a 28day aged SA Rump, excellent and also found good old monkey gland sauce which I havent seen in years

Spar is Dutch :) Or are they Danish? No, I think Dutch. Anyway, not important. Point is, they are so imbedded in SA and have been for many years, and they've taken on a very local flavour here (very different from Spars abroad). Plus, SA is one of their bigger operations, with some of their largest supermarkets.

Anyway, I don't see the need to introduce Tesco or ASDA here. Our situation is not much different from the UK. Their three biggest are Tesco, ASDA (which is part of Wallmart) and Sainsbury's (like Pick'nPay, Shoprite/ Checkers and Spar). And then there is Marks & Spencer (Woolworths) Morrissons and Safeway were gulped up and no longer exist (That's OK and Hyperama for us). Spar in the UK specialise in small convenience stores and are not a contender in the Supermarkets market. Somerfield is the same (That is like OK Food) Waitrose is more upmarket and more expensive, but their market share is tiny (We don't really have something like this, but it is no different from Checkers, really). Budgens offer small convenience stores, mainly in London, not really in the rest of the country (7 Eleven/Friendly, 8 Till Late, Sentra). Woolworths don't really stock a large variety of groceries, more electronics and shit (we don't have something like it, thank goodness). Boots is like Clicks. And Iceland is just scraping the barrel. Shopping there is really just one up from scavenging in bins. Sounds like Score and U-Save.

Do we really need more than this? Where on god's earth will we put these giants? Are people that crazy about grocery shopping? I for one hate it!

But I will welcome: Clothing retail chains, music/entertainment (Like Virgin and HMV or Saturn from Germany), mobile and fixed-line telephony, digital radio and television, ISPs, Banking, and the return of fancy-shmancy department stores like Garlicks and Greatermans.

music/entertainment (Like Virgin and HMV or Saturn from Germany)


Totally agree with that one.. Musica really irritates me. It makes me sad to go into one. CD Wherehouse is cool enough, but I would love to have a Virgin or HMV in South Africa.

^^come one you all love Top CD....lol

well harkerb it is not different to the UK where sainsburys, tesco, asda and morisons dominate. and I think the quality of the food on sale in our supermarkets is as good and often bettert han that available in the UK.

musica is alright apart from the fact the CDs are never in bloody alphabetical order!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I go to CD warehouse at the waterfront and that is SUPERB.

OK, what about steakhouses like TG Fridays, Outback or VIP's? Spur & Saddles are so bland compared. On these places' (in Asia at least) salad bars- free while waiting on your meal alone you could have a feast! They have from soups, salads, pastries to basic desert and drinks, even salmon starters!! Compared to Spur's homemade aartappelslaai and fried onions (pathetic 'onion rings'). Then again Spur is for everyone.

^^ We used to have a Hard Rock up here in Illovo, and Cape Town used to have a Planet Hollywood at the V&A. And then PAGAD came along..

BUTCHER BOY'S!!! :D Good Food, Good Drinks, & most importantly HOT WAITRESS'S!!!!

TGI Fridays? Do me a favour! Those places and Texas Embassy, Angus, etc. are HORRIBLE. I order steak, then it arrives looking like I don't know what. A grey lump of shit boiled up in water. Then I longed for a Spur steak! In my opinion, the best places to go for steak in England are the gastro pubs.

Spur is a BILLION time better than those disgusting UK places like TGI Fridays. At least the food is good in spur and sooo much cheaper that TGI/Texas Embassy

I avoid Spur like the plague. Food is horrible and you always end up sitting next to a table with at least 3 toddlers. For only slightly more R's you can go somewhere like Butcher Boys...and yes the waitresses wear really tiny uniforms. I don't know why somewhere like Spur does so well in SA when good restaurants are generally very well priced.

well Mango just opened in SA and its Spanish and one of my wife favourite stores, They need ZARA and Massimo Dutti (also Spannish) as they arte world wide and fantastic for chicks.
I shop at Boss and Armani mostly but in SA the season is old and looks like the European bargin bin season and they charge you a fortune for things.
SA deffinatly needs some internationl brands like Forever 21s,GO Sport,G star, GAP, Bannana Republic, Ralph Lauren etc which are world wide instead of these poncy little crappy stores selling woefully old and outdated brand lables at a fortune to dumbass Saffers who thionk its the bees knees.
Food and groceries is good in SA but clothes is still shit

Just bought me a Hugo Boss pin stripe suit, for R5000, not bad, but it kills when its humid!

Spur is ok for a family dinner, or a after movie place to go eat something.
The only thing I order there is there Lamb Chops with cheese sauce, & that sauce they give with the chicken wings is good stuff!

well Mango just opened in SA and its Spanish and one of my wife favourite stores, They need ZARA and Massimo Dutti (also Spannish) as they arte world wide and fantastic for chicks.
I shop at Boss and Armani mostly but in SA the season is old and looks like the European bargin bin season and they charge you a fortune for things.
SA deffinatly needs some internationl brands like Forever 21s,GO Sport,G star, GAP, Bannana Republic, Ralph Lauren etc which are world wide instead of these poncy little crappy stores selling woefully old and outdated brand lables at a fortune to dumbass Saffers who thionk its the bees knees.
Food and groceries is good in SA but clothes is still shit
Yes, but we're in a different hemisphere than Europe. Our summer follows theirs by half a year (sorry for stating the obvious). What to do? No, I think one should either 1) wear something with local flavour, and wear it with pride or 2) wear something that is timeless. Fashion changes every season, style is eternal!

O, and Zara is crap by the way. No offense to your wife... but Zara in England makes girls look like Bloemies koeke.

I agree greg. I last went to spur last year (the sea point one next to the protea hotel: it was full of kids and they seemed to have a bouncy castle IN the restaurant!!!!!!!) SA restaurants are so good and so reasonably priced we dont need endless shit franchises when you can pop down to camps bay or drive out to the winelands and eat a stunning meal for a lower cost than at TGI fridays or an Angus in London where the food would be crap.

well northern hesispre southern hesiphere shemisphere. In australia Boss has new stuff the same time as europe. Boss do a summer and a winter range for precisely for that reason. SA fashion is so far behind and the Boss store in gateway has stuff from 2 years ago. Its well known that the unsold european stuff id boxed up and sent to places like SA to be sold as new season.
As for Zara the stuff here in Dubai is good compared to the UK, I was in Zara in London about 5 weeks ago with my wife and even she complained that its crap compared to zara in europe or here in Dubai.
Maybee the poms prefer the crappier stuff

i serve a lady in my store who I think either owns or supplies the Zara store in Dubai, because she pops up there every 3 weeks, and she always wears Zara... I think she looks fantastic in them.

In an international survey South Africa was rated as having the best dressed men in the world :banana: (poms were the worst). I'll try find the link. Anyway I think that's pretty damn good.

In an international survey South Africa was rated as having the best dressed men in the world :banana: (poms were the worst). I'll try find the link. Anyway I think that's pretty damn good.

What planet are these people on? What about South African men's dress sense is so great? The two-tone Veldfokus shirts, rugby shorts and vellies? Short-sleeved polycotton shirts with clip-on ties? Trakkie daks with check shirts? Black shoes with white socks? Back me up, Gavin Raja and Errol Arendz, but I think the way Saffer men dress is a disgrace!

Except for the gays, of course. We always up the stakes. I think that, when it comes to fashion, we take the cake.

ha ha ha ha, thats gotta be done by SA FHM or some crap local mag. No way are the SA men well dressed compared to the international scene.Europeans have the most style by a long shop. Thats why my wife and I do a Bi-annual shopping trip to Italy and I always buy mainly formal work when Im in Europe which is like every month. I see the Saffers here in their short sleeve checked (how 70s) shirts with a tie, I mean who do they think they are -Sipowitz?

We dress crap (there are exceptions, of course) cos the choice we have is kak.

Take woolworths, for instance. Men have the following choices: beige, light blue, white, and black. And these colours come in Polo neck shirts, t-shirts, and shirts. Pants and shorts come in beige, white and black.

it are shite.

Tom I agree completly, the choice is what is lacking in SA. I mean when people think CK and guess are cool then there are problems but then there is nothing ese its tragic. Even in little old adelaide (wifes home town) one can get all the designer brands (D&G, Dior, Armani etc) then second tier such as RL etc and all the way to Nike and what ever . But in SA apart from Sandton city there is no where lse in a country of 40 million where one cpould get designer brands , if one so desired.
Oz 20 million people and you can get what ever you want ( althought may not be able to afford it) in every city no matter how small (adelaide 1.1 million ie smaller than PE)

I agee, but only partially... There aren't actual branded stores in the country, like Hugo Boss and Armani specific shops, except in Sandton, Gateway, and a few other places. But there are always places that sell these brands. Even in Polokwane, I can take you guys to a few shops where you can find Hugo Boss and Gucci. :)

Point is, these brands are available. To FIND them is the hard part. It's not as obviously available as in Europe and Oz, but they are here. Until the brands open proper stores all over, the average consumer won't be exposed to them though.

Capetonians dress well. Joburgers dress badly.

Capetonians dress well. Joburgers dress badly.

OMG this is so funny..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom I agree completly, the choice is what is lacking in SA. I mean when people think CK and guess are cool then there are problems but then there is nothing ese its tragic. Even in little old adelaide (wifes home town) one can get all the designer brands (D&G, Dior, Armani etc) then second tier such as RL etc and all the way to Nike and what ever . But in SA apart from Sandton city there is no where lse in a country of 40 million where one cpould get designer brands , if one so desired.
Oz 20 million people and you can get what ever you want ( althought may not be able to afford it) in every city no matter how small (adelaide 1.1 million ie smaller than PE)

Dolce & Gabanna opened in Sandton City like 2 years ago, and then closed down again within a few months. Back then I used to work in Sandton City, and not ONCE in all the times I walked passed there, did I actually see someone buying anything. And D&G is supposed to be like "entry level" stuff, which it is in places like UK/USA. The prices were just RIDICULOUS. Nobody can really afford it, except for a few richkids in Joburg, who would buy one or two things, and then move on. Can you imagine if Armani or Dior had to open up a store???? Bottom line, we (SA) do not have the kind of money to sustain something like this.... The only reason we have Gucci, Mont Blanc etc is because of Richemond....

Capetonians dress well. Joburgers dress badly.


nooooo... talk for yourself.. I dress fabulously well. :D


The only reason we have Gucci, Mont Blanc etc is because of Richemond....


I must admit I don't really go for the international stuff because I think much of it can be rather bland... woolworths bland, you know? That Gucci shop is way too clinical for the SA market..

In retrospect to what I said, I think that SA fashion is quite cool, and that there are some really funky local designers out there if you look properly.

Here we go again...

joburgers dress crap, capetown is centre of haut couture? Can we please build a little narcisistic temple where people from capetown can lick their own asses and worship themselves?

I mean, with a city like that I really think you have better things to do than moan about other's bad dress sense... Which is interesting... Where do you hang out in Gauteng? Danville? At least we keep the country's economy running up here. Its hard work, so we don't care about fashion too much... (sarcasm)

meeee yaow boys.

Dolce & Gabanna opened in Sandton City like 2 years ago, and then closed down again within a few months. Back then I used to work in Sandton City, and not ONCE in all the times I walked passed there, did I actually see someone buying anything. And D&G is supposed to be like "entry level" stuff, which it is in places like UK/USA. The prices were just RIDICULOUS. Nobody can really afford it, except for a few richkids in Joburg, who would buy one or two things, and then move on. Can you imagine if Armani or Dior had to open up a store???? Bottom line, we (SA) do not have the kind of money to sustain something like this.... The only reason we have Gucci, Mont Blanc etc is because of Richemond....

The "high end" designer stuff is ridiculously expensive pretty much anywhere. There is no way SA has enough yuppie* idiots who want to spend Euro800 on a pullover vest (looking basically identical, save brand from something you can get for Euro10.95); Euro1200 on corderoys (prices from Bulgari in Rome).

My wife checkmated me into buying her a scarf from Hermes = £185 = R2600 later. I felt pretty bad until some poor bastard came in to buy his wifes present that she had chosen and found out this crappy little purse (looking like something you'd find hawkers selling on Durban beachfront) was £885 ~R12k). He looked rich but he absolutely choked!

My only fairly overpriced item is a Gucci wallet I had bought for me in Sandton for R2.6k. Its pretty cool, but its a wallet.

* i say yuppie, not rich; as all the really rich people i know spend their money on far more sensible things than clothing costing 20x necessary.

i have to agree that SA's clothing sector especially those selling international labels are not keeping up. They simply need to look at the Vehicle sector to understand what we mean by keeping abreast of developments. You simply need to log on the internet to see how old some of the stuff the SA clothing chains are selling. They are ripping people off by buying the old stock cheap and selling it for an arm and leg.

^^ well why by those brands anyway? as has been said the majority of their clothing is overpriced shit anyway. u paying for a label that really does sweet F all for you.

Buy good quality young local designers!!! there are 100s selling their stuff in stores across Durbs, so i am sure u get them in jozi and the other city too.

^^ there are some fab stores in Durbs.. i prefer the stores there. I think Durbs is the centre of South Africa's haut coulture... hehe

the temple where we go and worship ourselves is on top of table mountain at sunset. Or perhaps camps bay at sunset! or maybe big bay beach with a pic nic. or maybe a trip to one of our glorious vineyards for sunday lunch and some fine wine. ah shucks we have to many places to go and worship our fair city (and ourselves for having the good fortune to live here) :-) P.S: I love how the rest of SA hates us (whenever a capetonian makes a joke on this forum the rest of you have a hissy fit). It just cos you are jealous guys! hehe ;-)

^^ there are some fab stores in Durbs.. i prefer the stores there. I think Durbs is the centre of South Africa's haut coulture... hehe
???really??

BTW Mike I agree with you 1000000000000000% why would anyone want overpriced shit worn by tossers like the beckhams and other assorted wannabes. There are some FANTASTIC local designers in Jozi, cape town and durbs that produce superb cutting edge and traditional stuff on a par and often way better than what I used to be able to buy in London and new york.

???really??


Yah boet... best shopping in SA is in Durbs. And some of the best restaurants too. Mikey should show ya... the boy knows his way around Durban. ;)

And Mike... honestly, why on earth would I be jealous of Capetonians? It rains half the year, and they have half a mountain. HALF. hehe

hehhee true.

I also agree that Durban does have some very very good shops. Its a cracking city. Its a shame I dont get to go there as much as I would like (Im there a couple of times a month in winter but in the summer its a tad too humid for me!). Honestly guys SA is so lucky to have 3 superb cities that are all awesome for their own reasons and all offer something different.

i wouldnt know WHERE to go look for those, i dont know Durban at all....

^^Corner of Grey & Queen Street :D

Yah boet... best shopping in SA is in Durbs. And some of the best restaurants too. Mikey should show ya... the boy knows his way around Durban. ;)

And Mike... honestly, why on earth would I be jealous of Capetonians? It rains half the year, and they have half a mountain. HALF. hehe
hey at least we have half a mountain all u hav is little hills and mine dumps dont count :)