I would advise everyone to go on the Torch Thread and read the history, learn from people who gone through the same experience.........very similar if not exact circumstances (the contracts are almost exact too, except for the compensation start). Save yourself some energy and time......:cheers:

Good advice.

You just have to accept facts that it's going to be a very long wait to get your keys here.

Some Torch investors signed up in 2005/6 i think and they wont get keys until 2010 at best.

Dont expect yours until 2012/2013.

The Hotel issue was the carrott at Bay Central and i hope it happens for you, but i'm afraid i am a cynical old bastard and on completion it could prove very tempting to resell the tower as a residential development for SP. As it will be money in the Bank for them which is what makes Mr Aslam tick.

The Hotel chain is NOT committed to anything here and it is only a tentative agreement. I know this for a fact as i considered buying here but was not convinced of the hotel going ahead.

That is the big gamble with this development for me. Just like the plots in front of the Torch is for the Torch development.

All the fun of the game i suppose.

One thing i can vouch for is crying to SP due to lack of progress will get you nowhere. You need to brace yourselves for the long game on this one.

I hope thats not too negative for the BC neighbourhood watch members but thats how i see things.

Good luck to all concerned.

maktol is right, theres no way it can be ready for dec 09.. but over all everything else is ok.. just the progress is very slow,

i would be happy with the bc shell built by dec 09

Maybe the podium.

^^^^ five star finish takes time :lol:

Good advice.

You just have to accept facts that it's going to be a very long wait to get your keys here.

Some Torch investors signed up in 2005/6 i think and they wont get keys until 2010 at best.

Dont expect yours until 2012/2013.

The Hotel issue was the carrott at Bay Central and i hope it happens for you, but i'm afraid i am a cynical old bastard and on completion it could prove very tempting to resell the tower as a residential development for SP. As it will be money in the Bank for them which is what makes Mr Aslam tick.

The Hotel chain is NOT committed to anything here and it is only a tentative agreement. I know this for a fact as i considered buying here but was not convinced of the hotel going ahead.

That is the big gamble with this development for me. Just like the plots in front of the Torch is for the Torch development.

All the fun of the game i suppose.

One thing i can vouch for is crying to SP due to lack of progress will get you nowhere. You need to brace yourselves for the long game on this one.

I hope thats not too negative for the BC neighbourhood watch members but thats how i see things.

Good luck to all concerned.

Re Hotel...DS lease out this for an astronomical annual fee agreed upfront for a minimum 10/15 yr period after whcih DS still own the building. It IS NOT in their interest to sell this building. Stop worrying and speculating THEY WILL make more money leasing it...think about it!

that's what SP wants you to believe, that things are normal and you just have to bite the bullet and wait. but we all know that there are new rules on the ground today. thanks to RERA and all the new regulations, developers operating in dubai today are operating in a very different environment compared to few years ago, or even last year.

i have 3 apartments in BC, and a delay of even two years means at least AED 750k in lost revenues. that's how everyone should see their investment here! you should ask yourself, how much revenue SP is making you lose by their delays!

as i said before, i have a developer i own an apartment with in dubai marina. they launched their project after BC, yet i was able to get a reschedualing and an extension of payments for a year and a half after i brought in RERA's name when i talked to them.

Re Hotel...DS lease out this for an astronomical annual fee agreed upfront for a minimum 10/15 yr period after whcih DS still own the building. It IS NOT in their interest to sell this building. Stop worrying and speculating THEY WILL make more money leasing it...think about it!

Thank you. I have thought about it. I DONT AGREE.

Re Hotel...DS lease out this for an astronomical annual fee agreed upfront for a minimum 10/15 yr period after whcih DS still own the building. It IS NOT in their interest to sell this building. Stop worrying and speculating THEY WILL make more money leasing it...think about it!

how do you know this? I bet it is a guess on your part. Wouldn't surprise me if DS or SP as they are known now sell the hotel to an investor (pension fund, local entrepreneur etc) as their business is property development not property investment. If the deal with the hotel is tentative as HT suggests then the development as a hotel is likely to be speculative and therefore subject to change

how do you know this? I bet it is a guess on your part. Wouldn't surprise me if DS or SP as they are known now sell the hotel to an investor (pension fund, local entrepreneur etc) as their business is property development not property investment. If the deal with the hotel is tentative as HT suggests then the development as a hotel is likely to be speculative and therefore subject to change

Of course is subject to change. The Fairmont Hotel in SZR was supposed to be Sheraton Plazza Hotel & Towers till the bulding was 2/3 up or more.

Of course is subject to change. The Fairmont Hotel in SZR was supposed to be Sheraton Plazza Hotel & Towers till the bulding was 2/3 up or more.

So where there is doubt about the hotel and construction progress is very,very slow and there appears to be no progress on the hotel at all and many investors have substantials sums(substantial to them anyway) invested, it is fair and reasonable to expect SP to give us a considered update on timescales. They have sold all the apartments so why not? This will allow investors to reevaluate whether they want or need to sell their apartments in light of the new timescales. The delay of rental income could be a major problem to some.

What do SP gain anyway by not completing by Dec 2010 given they have to pay compensation on the full amount paid over to them? Completion 2012/2013 doesn't seem to make financial sense for them or us. :ohno:

how do you know this? I bet it is a guess on your part. Wouldn't surprise me if DS or SP as they are known now sell the hotel to an investor (pension fund, local entrepreneur etc) as their business is property development not property investment. If the deal with the hotel is tentative as HT suggests then the development as a hotel is likely to be speculative and therefore subject to change

I know hoe these deals work because i have been involved with many.

Thank you. I have thought about it. I DONT AGREE.

Annual lease is around aed 43m in this area for this type of building. Multiply by 15 yrs and do the rest of the math yourself. Simple...

that's what SP wants you to believe, that things are normal and you just have to bite the bullet and wait. but we all know that there are new rules on the ground today. thanks to RERA and all the new regulations, developers operating in dubai today are operating in a very different environment compared to few years ago, or even last year.

i have 3 apartments in BC, and a delay of even two years means at least AED 750k in lost revenues. that's how everyone should see their investment here! you should ask yourself, how much revenue SP is making you lose by their delays!

as i said before, i have a developer i own an apartment with in dubai marina. they launched their project after BC, yet i was able to get a reschedualing and an extension of payments for a year and a half after i brought in RERA's name when i talked to them.

Glover...i'm guessing this is not your first flutter in property market. The reason you stand to make so much money from buying off plan is because you are taking the chance. Anyone that wants guarentees should not buy off plan property. They should buy the finished article. OFF PLAN property is speculative and that is the reason you WILL make a fortune. If you bought and expected the keys on 31st DEC 09 then you didn't do your homework on off plan sales. Surely you know this...Surely you didn't do your figures based on the contractual dates. Only a fool would work to these dates.
People...keep it real...its off plan sales!!!

^^^^ honestly, do you work for SP, or do you benefit somehow from the crap you post on this board defending them all the time.

can you plz get off people's backs on this board, seriously!

i really think moderators should look into this and find out if this guy works for SP somehow or another. i know for sure that they monitor this board, but it will be a new thing if they have people posting on this board pretending to be investors!

Annual lease is around aed 43m in this area for this type of building. Multiply by 15 yrs and do the rest of the math yourself. Simple...

My Math(s).

Typical floor of Bay Central residential units as taken from page 1 of this thread

3 bed type B = 1,530 sqf x 2 = 3,060 sqf
2 bed type A = 1,108 sqf x 2 = 2,216 sqf
2 bed type B = 1,184 sqf x 2 = 2,368 sqf

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=10181060&postcount=15

Therefore total saleable sqf per floor = 7,644 x 36 floors = 275,184 sqf

275,184 sqf of total saleable sqf x AED 2,500 psf = 687,960,000.

So if we call that 688 million AED that they can sell east tower for as apartments at an estimate of 2.5k psf when this one is finished.

You say that the lease will yield AED 43m a year so over 15 years this will earn me AED 645m.

Option 1- Sell on completion.
I sell all the units up front and I get AED 688m to invest in an interest baring account.
688m @ 5% compound x 15 years = 1,430,302,587 (that’s one billion, four hundred and thirty million, three hundred and two thousand, five hundred and eighty-seven)

So we will call that AED 1.43 billion.

Option 2 - Lease to hotel.
I lease the building to a hotel and I get AED 43m a year over 15 years. Each time I get paid my rent I pay it into the same interest baring account @ 5% compound x 15 years. The compounded return at the end of 15 years is 1,017,272,146 (that’s one billion, seventeen million, two hundred and seventy two thousand, one hundred and forty six).

So we will call that AED 1.01 billion.

Of course in reality if I had sold and pocketed my cash I would probably invest it in another project which would yield me considerably more than 5% compound.

As SP are developers and salespeople they have got the resources to make a better job of maximising profits up front in my opinion.

I am not saying that the Hotel won’t happen at Bay Central. All I am saying is that there is no Guarantee that it will happen and the suggested hotel chain have given no commitment in writing. They have only said that a tentative agreement has been made.

It would make sense that any Hotel chain interested in leasing the building would conduct their own due diligence and viability studies at the time of contractual commitment to see if the area can support the demand for such a hotel in an area already heavily populated by luxury beachfront hotels.

Simple...

i am interested too .............

^^^^ honestly, do you work for SP, or do you benefit somehow from the crap you post on this board defending them all the time.

can you plz get off people's backs on this board, seriously!

i really think moderators should look into this and find out if this guy works for SP somehow or another. i know for sure that they monitor this board, but it will be a new thing if they have people posting on this board pretending to be investors!

So i am not allowed my opinion if it dares to disagree with ammature investors with no clue. You clearly are trying to get me removed from posting...sad.
I believe in what i am posting and i also know what i am talking about. You are a scare monger with no clue what so ever. Grow up and stop bullying people that disagree with you.
Here is something to get them to remove my posts...you are a knob.

... i really think moderators should look into this and find out if this guy works for SP somehow or another...

Why should we care where and for whom the forumers works for? We care what people post in here, and that only.

As for the rest, if you guys would not go in length into investment talk, they (the developers) would not feel the need to register people here.

So i am not allowed my opinion if it dares to disagree with ammature investors with no clue. You clearly are trying to get me removed from posting...sad.
I believe in what i am posting and i also know what i am talking about. You are a scare monger with no clue what so ever. Grow up and stop bullying people that disagree with you.
Here is something to get them to remove my posts...you are a knob.

Now that's enough!

hi read this in alineah website today, do the last few paragraphs mean that as the first buyer from develper, we do not have to register........................also the time has been extended...........

sorry............this got leftout
The deadline for Dubai developers to register under the pre-registration system for off-plan properties has been extended from the first week of November to the year-end, said a senior government official.
“Those who have launched projects prior to the introduction of the pre-registration system and were selling off-plan now need to register by year-end. We will initiate strict action if they fail to do so,” Mohammed Sultan Thani, Assistant Director-General of the Dubai Land Department, told Emirates Business. “We will not penalise developers across the board and will deal with them individually. But anyone not following the law will have to face strict action.”

However, following the issuance of Law No 13 of 2008, developers now have to register all their units prior to launch with the Land Department and only then can they proceed with their sales.

Law No 13, which regulates initial property registration in Dubai, aims to create further consumer ease and protection within the Dubai real estate market by introducing a mandatory system of

pre-registration at the Land Department for off-plan sales contracts for property units. Under the new law, any off-plan sales that are not registered will be invalid.

Off-plan sale refers to the selling of real estate units based on an architectural plan of the property before the structure is built. The onus of registration under the law lies on the developer and not on the first purchaser. But during a secondary sale the seller has to inform the department and register the deed by paying the necessary charges. In case of home mortgages, banks will have to register the deals and not the mortgagee, said Thani.

Developers say they have already initiated the registration process. “We get all our units registered with the Land Department before the sale process,” said Tarek Kandil, CEO of Define Properties



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

business 24

My Math(s).

Typical floor of Bay Central residential units as taken from page 1 of this thread

3 bed type B = 1,530 sqf x 2 = 3,060 sqf
2 bed type A = 1,108 sqf x 2 = 2,216 sqf
2 bed type B = 1,184 sqf x 2 = 2,368 sqf

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=10181060&postcount=15

Therefore total saleable sqf per floor = 7,644 x 36 floors = 275,184 sqf

275,184 sqf of total saleable sqf x AED 2,500 psf = 687,960,000.

So if we call that 688 million AED that they can sell east tower for as apartments at an estimate of 2.5k psf when this one is finished.

You say that the lease will yield AED 43m a year so over 15 years this will earn me AED 645m.

Option 1- Sell on completion.
I sell all the units up front and I get AED 688m to invest in an interest baring account.
688m @ 5% compound x 15 years = 1,430,302,587 (that’s one billion, four hundred and thirty million, three hundred and two thousand, five hundred and eighty-seven)

So we will call that AED 1.43 billion.

Option 2 - Lease to hotel.
I lease the building to a hotel and I get AED 43m a year over 15 years. Each time I get paid my rent I pay it into the same interest baring account @ 5% compound x 15 years. The compounded return at the end of 15 years is 1,017,272,146 (that’s one billion, seventeen million, two hundred and seventy two thousand, one hundred and forty six).

So we will call that AED 1.01 billion.

Of course in reality if I had sold and pocketed my cash I would probably invest it in another project which would yield me considerably more than 5% compound.

As SP are developers and salespeople they have got the resources to make a better job of maximising profits up front in my opinion.

I am not saying that the Hotel won’t happen at Bay Central. All I am saying is that there is no Guarantee that it will happen and the suggested hotel chain have given no commitment in writing. They have only said that a tentative agreement has been made.

It would make sense that any Hotel chain interested in leasing the building would conduct their own due diligence and viability studies at the time of contractual commitment to see if the area can support the demand for such a hotel in an area already heavily populated by luxury beachfront hotels.

Simple...

I agree with this analysis and thinks SP are in a dilemma whether to build the hotel or build another residential block. This would explain why the east tower hasn't been piled yet and progress overall is slow as they want to build the 3 towers together

My Math(s).

Typical floor of Bay Central residential units as taken from page 1 of this thread

3 bed type B = 1,530 sqf x 2 = 3,060 sqf
2 bed type A = 1,108 sqf x 2 = 2,216 sqf
2 bed type B = 1,184 sqf x 2 = 2,368 sqf

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=10181060&postcount=15

Therefore total saleable sqf per floor = 7,644 x 36 floors = 275,184 sqf

275,184 sqf of total saleable sqf x AED 2,500 psf = 687,960,000.

So if we call that 688 million AED that they can sell east tower for as apartments at an estimate of 2.5k psf when this one is finished.

You say that the lease will yield AED 43m a year so over 15 years this will earn me AED 645m.

Option 1- Sell on completion.
I sell all the units up front and I get AED 688m to invest in an interest baring account.
688m @ 5% compound x 15 years = 1,430,302,587 (that’s one billion, four hundred and thirty million, three hundred and two thousand, five hundred and eighty-seven)

So we will call that AED 1.43 billion.

Option 2 - Lease to hotel.
I lease the building to a hotel and I get AED 43m a year over 15 years. Each time I get paid my rent I pay it into the same interest baring account @ 5% compound x 15 years. The compounded return at the end of 15 years is 1,017,272,146 (that’s one billion, seventeen million, two hundred and seventy two thousand, one hundred and forty six).

So we will call that AED 1.01 billion.
Only thing is after 15 yrs of leasing SP will still own building and be able to sell at [your figure] 1.43 plus say an annual increase of around 8%...make it flat... thats 15 * 8 = 120% of 1.43b which equals a growth of around 1.71b and add it equals value of aed 3.1 billion PLUS lease money of [your figures again] aed 1.01 billion equals income over 15yrs of around aed 4.2 billion ish.

Of course in reality if I had sold and pocketed my cash I would probably invest it in another project which would yield me considerably more than 5% compound.

As SP are developers and salespeople they have got the resources to make a better job of maximising profits up front in my opinion.

I am not saying that the Hotel won’t happen at Bay Central. All I am saying is that there is no Guarantee that it will happen and the suggested hotel chain have given no commitment in writing. They have only said that a tentative agreement has been made.

It would make sense that any Hotel chain interested in leasing the building would conduct their own due diligence and viability studies at the time of contractual commitment to see if the area can support the demand for such a hotel in an area already heavily populated by luxury beachfront hotels.

Simple...

i am sure this was an oversight on your part.

This is an older picture but i think it's worth to post it :cheers:

http://i37.tinypic.com/o9mqmg.jpg

just wondering if anyone has any up to date pictures?

I will be in dubai in 3/4 weeks and will take some then.

This is an older picture but i think it's worth to post it :cheers:

Why ??

just wondering if anyone has any up to date pictures?

I will be in dubai in 3/4 weeks and will take some then.

that will be great. i will be there for Xmas and new years. will take some after yours. ring select P when you are there thay will take you around the site .planning to spend new years eve on JBR walks and walk back to our apartment will try and get some night shots of BC .

:cheers:

^^^^ honestly, do you work for SP, or do you benefit somehow from the crap you post on this board defending them all the time.

can you plz get off people's backs on this board, seriously!

i really think moderators should look into this and find out if this guy works for SP somehow or another. i know for sure that they monitor this board, but it will be a new thing if they have people posting on this board pretending to be investors!

The Renaissance Dubai Marina
Bay Central Towers with their unique private peninsula position, have the prestigious distinction to be the first project in Dubai Marina by a private developer to be awarded hotel approval from the master developer – Emaar.

Home to 325 beautifully appointed rooms, the Renaissance Dubai Marina will be managed by Marriott international. This five star hotel will feature an all-day casual restaurant, two specialty restaurants, lobby lounge and bar, a high energy entertainment bar with outdoor seating and a large F&B area at the roof deck for functions and parties. For recreation, the hotel will offer an internationally branded, 14,000-square foot spa; a health club with sauna and steam rooms; and an outdoor swimming pool.

With 16,800 square feet dedicated to flexible meeting space, some of the other amenities will include an executive lounge, a business center, 24 hour room service, in room mini bar, and high speed internet access.

The Group successfully closed a syndicated financing arrangement for the hotel in early 2008.The syndication is comprised of two international banks; one from the United Kingdom and the other being one of the largest UAE banks.

Clearly if they only closed the deal on finance this year they are way behind with this.
source
http://www.select-group.ae/bayCentral.html

^^^^ honestly, do you work for SP, or do you benefit somehow from the crap you post on this board defending them all the time.

can you plz get off people's backs on this board, seriously!

i really think moderators should look into this and find out if this guy works for SP somehow or another. i know for sure that they monitor this board, but it will be a new thing if they have people posting on this board pretending to be investors!

Forgot to say...you really don't have a clue do you? People offer more thought out opinions than you and you attack them.

The Renaissance Dubai Marina
Bay Central Towers with their unique private peninsula position, have the prestigious distinction to be the first project in Dubai Marina by a private developer to be awarded hotel approval from the master developer – Emaar.

Home to 325 beautifully appointed rooms, the Renaissance Dubai Marina will be managed by Marriott international. This five star hotel will feature an all-day casual restaurant, two specialty restaurants, lobby lounge and bar, a high energy entertainment bar with outdoor seating and a large F&B area at the roof deck for functions and parties. For recreation, the hotel will offer an internationally branded, 14,000-square foot spa; a health club with sauna and steam rooms; and an outdoor swimming pool.

With 16,800 square feet dedicated to flexible meeting space, some of the other amenities will include an executive lounge, a business center, 24 hour room service, in room mini bar, and high speed internet access.

The Group successfully closed a syndicated financing arrangement for the hotel in early 2008.



More bullshit from the masters of bullshit.:)

What about the Radisson sas or the Dusit Dubai marina. Love the description of "private peninsula" it's one of the most over developed areas of the marina for feck's sake.:bash:

Maybe this is why delay on hotel

Clearly if they only closed the deal on finance this year they are way behind with this.
source
http://www.select-group.ae/bayCentral.html


The Group successfully closed a syndicated financing arrangement for the hotel in early 2008.The syndication is comprised of two international banks; one from the United Kingdom and the other being one of the largest UAE banks.

I think if this Hotel deal is based on a syndicated finance arrangement it is even less likely to go ahead than i previously thought. Incase you have been living in a cave in Afghanistan for the past 11 months the global banking arena has significantly changed since the begining of 2008, when this deal was supposedly done.

Banks barely have enough money to pay dividends to their shareholders let alone take a speculative punt on a hotel in Dubai.

Projects supported by Bank finance are being cancelled all over Dubai at the moment, even the big boys like Nahkeel, Emaar and DP are putting projects on hold.

None of this Hotel speculation has anything to do with the construction delays in my opinion. This is simply down to lack of workforce on the ground.

In order to give a balanced opinion i think the construction delays could enable the hotel to be more likely as in 4/5 years time the global banking system should be more robust making it easier for investors to raise capital for such a venture.

As i have said before i do not know if the hotel will happen or not, I am only considering all the possibilities, as hard facts are as rare as construction workers at Bay Central.

Banks barely have enough money to pay dividends to their shareholders let alone take a speculative punt on a hotel in Dubai.
:hilarious:lol::hilarious

:cheers:

Dubai is very impressive, but I wish they would have adopted the same urban planning foundations as in the Abu Dhabi 2030 plan. Right now, the buildings look too spread out to walk from one to the other (except maybe in the Marina... and of course the "old" parts of the city). You have the nice buildings, but without a suitable walking environment, it just will never feel like a proper city. And no, I'm not trying to impose Western urban ideas on you guys, since traditional Arab cities are of course designed to be walkable with shaded streets.

I also wish that between the Gulf shore and SZR, a midrise city would be developed that could be modeled after either downtown Washington DC, or the center of Beirut - both have buildings all 8 stories tall that are set back at almost identical distances from the street, but Beirut obviously has more Arabic architecture, while DC has more modern architecture with wide, tree-lined streets. Maybe Dubai could combine the Arab influences with modern design and lots of trees? Obviously the money and potential are there, but the vision is needed. I think Jumeirah Gardens is a good start, but is inadequate for filling in that area. Also, I wish that each neighborhood would have a distinct identity, and that they wouldn't just be merged into a larger Jumeirah (which will lose its prestige once it becomes so huge). But that's just my wish after all, and I have no power...

that will be great. i will be there for Xmas and new years. will take some after yours. ring select P when you are there thay will take you around the site .planning to spend new years eve on JBR walks and walk back to our apartment will try and get some night shots of BC .

:cheers:

Good idea I'll contact SP while in Dubai. I will be there 7 & 8th Dec and 3rd & 4th Jan and Melbourne in between. Staying at the Holiday Inn close to JBR both times. Hopefully we will see some great progress by then!

Courtesy Jeetha/Flickr

http://i33.tinypic.com/29cqmpi.jpg

Good idea I'll contact SP while in Dubai. I will be there 7 & 8th Dec and 3rd & 4th Jan and Melbourne in between. Staying at the Holiday Inn close to JBR both times. Hopefully we will see some great progress by then!

may be worth ringing SP office here before you go to arrange a time and appointment. SP will pick you up and take you around their sites including botanica and west avenue.have a goo trip.i am just spending 15 days in dubai from 20th dec to 3rd jan. better weather. anything to get away from miserable UK weather.
have a good trip.
:cheers:

Don't you guys see some slow down in the Bay Central construction progress? They seem to work only at the day time and only until 4:00 p.m.

Select have a part time workforce on the site

Hi guys, can I ask you, please - Bay Central development is now delayed by at least 2 years... Have SP adjusted your payments schedule to reflect the fact that it will be late?....

Hi guys, can I ask you, please - Bay Central development is now delayed by at least 2 years... Have SP adjusted your payments schedule to reflect the fact that it will be late?....

no sp have not done that.:bash:

Hi guys, can I ask you, please - Bay Central development is now delayed by at least 2 years... Have SP adjusted your payments schedule to reflect the fact that it will be late?....

Where did you here it was delayed by two years? If we can get this information we can goto to SP and [re] negotiate payment schedules. So far they are sticking to contractual completion date.

yes he has, in a virtual cave courtesy of Select Group.

Incase you have been living in a cave in Afghanistan for the past 11 months the global banking arena has significantly changed since the begining of 2008, when this deal was supposedly done.

Where did you here it was delayed by two years? If we can get this information we can goto to SP and [re] negotiate payment schedules. So far they are sticking to contractual completion date.

DxPC - sorry if I have mislead you. 2 year delay was my own estimate from looking at the contruction progress to date. So what is the contractual completion date?

DxPC - sorry if I have mislead you. 2 year delay was my own estimate from looking at the contruction progress to date. So what is the contractual completion date?

december 2009:bash:

Don't you guys see some slow down in the Bay Central construction progress? They seem to work only at the day time and only until 4:00 p.m.

I can't figure out the financial logic behind SP doing this. Any delay beyond Dec10 costs them compensation which in theory they could avoid by completing by then. So why wouldn't they aim for this date at the latest? What do they gain by completing beyond this date?

compensation payout is tiny...:ohno:

who runs the site had 2 messages blocked and starting to formulate an opinion....any guesses guys............:):ohno::bash::banana::lol::cheers::nuts:

why why why! is the price of steel so low but so much in demand.......

who runs the site had 2 messages blocked and starting to formulate an opinion....any guesses guys............:):ohno::bash::banana::lol::cheers::nuts:

My messages get contiunally blocked by moderators. They are very tight community and allow any vitriol from the chosen few. My guess is they attempt to force the prices down by continually feeding misinformation. They will then buy units up below market value then flip them when dev finished brillliant and simple. I bought a one bed from this site from someone terrified by all the gossip. Anyone that dares to offer another opinion is lambasted.

Hi Glover, any chance of some new pics out of that lounge window of your's ???

Hi Glover, any chance of some new pics out of that lounge window of your's ???

Could you head that camera towards Silverene.
To compare. Cheers.:cheers:

compensation payout is tiny...:ohno:

why do you say this? Isn't it, say, 5%pa which if there is a 2 year delay amounts to 10% of total purchase price - a not insignificant sum

compansation is given on how much you have paid..

plus the torch people are waiting for there compansation so would be good too see what they get or dont get..

This is the official response I got regarding compensation for BC:

In reference to your query regarding compensation for delay in completion, as long as you have fulfilled all your obligations under the terms of your sale and purchase agreement, the developer will make payment to you in quarterly intervals of 1% above the EIBOR rate at that time on the monies you have paid to date. You should refer to clause 16.1 within your contract and additional information will be sent to our clients closer to that time should this be necessary.

hi just did some research apparently sales in marina still holding up....:cheers:

This is the official response I got regarding compensation for BC:

In reference to your query regarding compensation for delay in completion, as long as you have fulfilled all your obligations under the terms of your sale and purchase agreement, the developer will make payment to you in quarterly intervals of 1% above the EIBOR rate at that time on the monies you have paid to date. You should refer to clause 16.1 within your contract and additional information will be sent to our clients closer to that time should this be necessary.

Thanks for the info.

Emirates Interbank Offer Rate (EIBOR) 11 nov

Fixing 1 Month 2 Months 3 Months 6 Months 12 Months
4.28125 4.45625 4.47500 4.43125 4.31875


SO +1% MAKES IT AROUND 5.47% pa. Any SPP buyer will have paid 90% of purchase price by Dec 10. Not sure what LPP buyer would have paid.

I reckon for a two year delay ie completion Dec 2012 they will have to pay out between 90,000 to 110,000 dirhams for each 1 bed apartment bought on SPP (depending on how much you have paid in the first place). This contractually binding and we would sue them as a group if they were resisting payment. I don't beleive they have any intention of avoiding this payment. SP are great at the selling process, legals made easy, finance options are good - it is just the substantial construction delays which are frustrating.

It just baffles me why they would want to complete after Dec 10 given the extra cost.

Is it technically not possible or advisable?
Do they gain some financial advantage?
Is there truly a shortage of resources?
Is there a problem with the hotel deal?
?

^^Remember that compensation is only paid for 1 year from 1/1/11 until 31/12/11.

Also remember that they will have had your money for 4 years earning interest on it so as long as they dont need to pay out compensation for longer than they have held the funds then there is no cost to them (rates being equal), and therefore no incentive to speed up.

This has all been discussed a thousand times before and unfortuately for all of us the conclutoin is compensation or not there is little incentive to speed up progress from a financial point of view.

Delays are down to manpower shortages which are project management issues between SP and DCE.

hope you are right here! my gut feeling tells me it's something more sinister!

Delays are down to manpower shortages which are project management issues between SP and DCE.

http://mazysmadhouse.net/pic/smilies/whipped.jpg.gif

Select need a whipping to speed them up :banana:

Hi guys
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that I read somewhere in the news that there is a new law in place where all developers should link payments to the construction progress?

I will try to find an extract of that law and post it on here.

So have anyone tried to discuss with SP their adherance to the law and linking payments to construction progress?

I presume that people on the short term plan have already paid 50%-60% of the purchase price to SP and looking at the construction progress you should have paid 10%.

Hi guys
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that I read somewhere in the news that there is a new law in place where all developers should link payments to the construction progress?

I will try to find an extract of that law and post it on here.

So have anyone tried to discuss with SP their adherance to the law and linking payments to construction progress?

I presume that people on the short term plan have already paid 50%-60% of the purchase price to SP and looking at the construction progress you should have paid 10%.

The brilliance of SP business model - The sales contract indicates that the investor pays regardless of construction progress. Investors are simply paying off a loan from them. Payments must be made on the due date or be penalized for late payments. Construction progress has nothing to do with repaying this loan.

Stay away ...

Also remember that they will have had your money for 4 years earning interest on it so as long as they dont need to pay out compensation for longer than they have held the funds then there is no cost to them (rates being equal), and therefore no incentive to speed up.

This has all been discussed a thousand times before and unfortuately for all of us the conclutoin is compensation or not there is little incentive to speed up progress from a financial point of view.

Delays are down to manpower shortages which are project management issues between SP and DCE.

But they are spending our funds on construction costs all the time so progressively after Dec2010 they are paying out more in interest than they are earning. Also delays such as this hamper their ability to sell more developments to existing investors. Because of the delays on BC I won't be investing more with SP but will chose other developers. If the delays are down manpower shortages as you say why can't they just recruit more?

^^Remember that compensation is only paid for 1 year from 1/1/11 until 31/12/11.

thanks just clarified my original post.

Of course the good news is that if you are based in UK and bought forward when you purchased your property the value in £ terms is now up 30%+ for exchange rate difference plus normal capital appreciation :) :cheers:

But they are spending our funds on construction costs all the time so progressively after Dec2010 they are paying out more in interest than they are earning. Also delays such as this hamper their ability to sell more developments to existing investors. Because of the delays on BC I won't be investing more with SP but will chose other developers. If the delays are down manpower shortages as you say why can't they just recruit more?

Bay Central is sold out i think in 2007 so money in bank from this point.

It dosnt cost much to drive a few excavators around a big site and make a few sand pits so not much cost yet, but all the money is earning interest for them for 2007, 2008 and maybe 2009. The expensive bits of the construction come later on i think (but i am no expert on construction).

Your point of SP not being able to sell future developments is rather a mute point as you are indeed living proof that this statement is incorrect as you have bought here after exactly the same delay scenario happend to the Torch which was lauched in 2005 and was a hole in the ground until 2007.

My opinion is simply that SP is a new developer and got a bit carried away with themselves and are now thinking shit we have got all these plots and plans and money, what do we do now.

They need to get some realy keen project managers on board and get stuff finshed.

I really wish they would give True Blue another interview, he's not that bad and seems to know his stuff.

The brilliance of SP business model - The sales contract indicates that the investor pays regardless of construction progress. Investors are simply paying off a loan from them. Payments must be made on the due date or be penalized for late payments. Construction progress has nothing to do with repaying this loan.

Stay away ...

Rubbish...Law 8 states clearly that your funds are in your escrow account and they can only draw down when bench marks are met. You are entitled to ask SP for a copy of your escrow account to see funds in it. You are also entitled to ask Land Department for a copy of the escrow papers.
Unfortunately you must still pay on time. The only real benefit to this arrangement is if they go bust the buyers own the plots and also there funds upto a point are still in escrow. SP are 100% restricted on how they use these funds and,for example, if they have obtained any finance on the developement this too must be deposited in the account...
see - http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/ld_website/enLAW/No08_2007.pdf
also see - http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/escrow-law-dubais-new-regulations-for-the-sale-of-off-plan-units.cfm

Further more By Law 85 outlines the duties of developers and brokers. If you think you are deliberately mislead by SP you can report them to Land Dept and ask for their involvement to obtain truth. SP as our broker must BY LAW act in our interest at all times. Maybe someone should invoke their right and challenge them at Land Dept.!

today, Nov. 14.

these pictures confirm that no piling has been done yet for the hotel tower!!

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6370/img0207la6.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5589/img0216yq2.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1860/img0211vy0.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9085/img0210vj8.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7231/img0213wm4.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5600/img0212lo0.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3484/img0209hm1.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2544/img0215tt5.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4141/img0214eo9.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1661/img0206yl1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5301/img0208jp1.jpg

I'm not sure if they can progress with the podium if the towers aren't aren't piled and if Hotel hasnt been piled we are in deep s##t
Although I think we need to write off Dubai for a year to be honest and wait till the UK turns the corner

^^Fantastic update Glover.

Everything on track for a 2011 finish...


:lol:

^^^^ and that's being optimistic! for all we know, the financing for the hotel could have fell through, which would explain why Select lied about the piling of the hotel.

BTW, heard that the financing deal for the tower replacing the Hard Rock Caffe has fell through, and the project has been canceled/put on hold!

i think the only way to make Select come clean about the hotel is by going to RERA. we could hire a law firm as a group and make the firm do all of the work. i am willing to handle this here in dubai if enough buyers join me!

Bay Central is sold out i think in 2007 so money in bank from this point.

It dosnt cost much to drive a few excavators around a big site and make a few sand pits so not much cost yet, but all the money is earning interest for them for 2007, 2008 and maybe 2009. The expensive bits of the construction come later on i think (but i am no expert on construction).

Your point of SP not being able to sell future developments is rather a mute point as you are indeed living proof that this statement is incorrect as you have bought here after exactly the same delay scenario happend to the Torch which was lauched in 2005 and was a hole in the ground until 2007.

My opinion is simply that SP is a new developer and got a bit carried away with themselves and are now thinking shit we have got all these plots and plans and money, what do we do now.

They need to get some realy keen project managers on board and get stuff finshed.

I really wish they would give True Blue another interview, he's not that bad and seems to know his stuff.

When I bought in BC I wasn't aware of this forum or the delays re Torch otherwise I would have thought twice about buying not because it is a poor investment but I plan to take it easy in a couple of years and would like the income then. SP's staff inc management have all been brain washed into thinking everything is OK.

It seems a pity that their major failing re project mgt, if this is what is the problem, is causing anxiety with buyers, costing SP money and sales in the long run.

^^^^ and that's being optimistic! for all we know, the financing for the hotel could have fell through, which would explain why Select lied about the piling of the hotel.

BTW, heard that the financing deal for the tower replacing the Hard Rock Caffe has fell through, and the project has been canceled/put on hold!

i think the only way to make Select come clean about the hotel is by going to RERA. we could hire a law firm as a group and make the firm do all of the work. i am willing to handle this here in dubai if enough buyers join me!

Glover I am 100% with you when we get to that stage.

Here is a new chart that details when they need to let us know the Completition Date and when compensation actually starts and ends.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2l8wwh1.jpg

SP know that we are serious and organised - that is why they are taking their time answering our questions.

glover im with you aswell.. i dont want another Torch out come

glover im with you aswell.. i dont want another Torch out come

Would you care to explain the "Torch outcome" bit? :cheers:

THE DELAY!! ^^

Longer delays here, I am afraid:cheers:

if we can do something, its worth a go to keep the delay too a minimum..

if we can do something, its worth a go to keep the delay too a minimum..

I agree but be prepared for worse case :cheers:

^^Yes, exactly, "Plan for the worst, hope for the best"...

^^Remember that compensation is only paid for 1 year from 1/1/11 until 31/12/11.

AHA, is this accurate? I haven't looked at my contract (I will now do later) but I was assuming the compensation would go on until completion. Once they go beyond Dec 2011 there aren't about anymore penalties then. I think this means that extra pressure such as Beppe is suggesting might be needed.

AHA, is this accurate? I haven't looked at my contract (I will now do later) but I was assuming the compensation would go on until completion. Once they go beyond Dec 2011 there aren't about anymore penalties then. I think this means that extra pressure such as Beppe is suggesting might be needed.

i would assume sp will have to continue to pay penalty till completion,. fwiw could you clarify it please.I am just hoping it wont go beyond 2011. there are a lot of people whose future plans depend on this development.just hope for a bigger work force on site soon.
:ohno:

from the resent pictures from glover i dont think much work has been done

West tower slight water proofing started

Central Tower started digging the pile caps

thats it from what i can see.. anyone else?

end of the year... at this rate i can only see the central tower beening the stage the west tower foundations are at..

:ohno:

I'm not sure if they can progress with the podium if the towers aren't aren't piled and if Hotel hasnt been piled we are in deep s##t

Clearly the Hotel piling has not been done and we are therefore in very, very deep s##t here indeed. :ohno:

i would assume sp will have to continue to pay penalty till completion,. fwiw could you clarify it please.I am just hoping it wont go beyond 2011. there are a lot of people whose future plans depend on this development.just hope for a bigger work force on site soon.
:ohno:

You guys need to re-read your contracts section 16.1 - it is very clearly stated in there regarding notification of completion date and compensation period.

All Bay Central investors need to work together to ensure we get our properties asap.

Glover's idea of making a case with RERA is a good one, and we need to support each other.

i have raised my concerns with Select yesterday after getting a call from their England office "reminding" me of my coming payment. the guy initially gave me the standard "mass mail" response, but after i said i will bring my lawyer into this and brought in RERA's name, he said he will take it up to his manager. he emailed me back within an hour or so after he talked with his manager with the same bullshit. not blaming the guy here, but at Select, it seem that it's company policy to bullshit any inquiries about construction and hotel status.

here is what i emailed him back (i also forwarded the email to Dubai office):

"Thanks for your feedback, but I am afraid this is not going to be acceptable.

Field visits and pictures clearly show that no work has been done yet on the East Tower (the hotel tower), and only piling has been done so far on the West & Central towers. This will surely result in long delays, and the completion date will be pushed at least 2-3 years, assuming there are no problems with hotel. It is strange here that Select keeps denying problems with the completion date and the construction of the hotel when facts on the ground show otherwise.

Select has to update unit owners with the status of the hotel giving that no construction has been done yet, almost a year before the supposed completion date of December 2009. Also, Select should provide an updated completion date for the whole project. It is obvious that this project cannot be completed and handed over without the hotel.

I am sorry to say that if I don't get a more convincing answer in a timely manner, I will take up the matter with RERA!

Thanks you for your cooperation on this matter."

they are really prompt when they make a sales call or when they send reminder for payment................wish they would show the same promptness in construction as well. We should all have a joint represenation to bc re. the delays

Clearly the Hotel piling has not been done and we are therefore in very, very deep s##t here indeed. :ohno:

You are the man within SP and in the know of SP inside activities. Why cant you simply confirm that there would be no hotel or plans for it have being scrapped. Dropping hints that people are in very, very deep s##t is unlike you. This development has always being your baby.:nuts:. Guess BC is all sold out, commission banked and no losses on your side to voice the obvious .. BC is a joke.

How does the saying go..."Don't say i didin't tell you, but I told you so".

***

You are the man within SP and in the know of SP inside activities.



:lol:

Clearly the Hotel piling has not been done and we are therefore in very, very deep s##t here indeed. :ohno:

Here goes the Xmas Bonus :lol::banana:

With the current delay in the project....
It looks like DS will concentrate efforts on West and Central towers.These are the towers where compensation payments will eat into their profits.
The Hotel tower will be constructed at a later stage.(seems logical)

^^^ this will be a clear breach of the contract i signed with Select. the hotel is part of the project and was not supposed to be built at a later time. there are no separate completion dates for the hotel and the residential towers. in fact, dubai municipality will not grant a certificate of completion for the project unless all th towers are complete.

BC was marketed, promoted, and sold as one project, two residential towers and one hotel providing a la carte service to the residential towers. any changes to that will be a breach of contract as far as i am concerned.

Are you really going to do something in relation to RERA complain or it is just sort of a kitchen talk?

At least the Dubai crash will be over and prices back again to a high at the time of completion :)

one thing i dont understand... why they havent piled the east tower.. even if hotel or no hotel they still have too build a third tower.. cant leave it out.. even if it becomes a residental tower..

At least the Dubai crash will be over and prices back again to a high at the time of completion :)

One for all us Brits! Keep your chins up lads! Gonna be one hell of a ride!
LODkVkpaVQA


:lol:

:banana::banana::banana:

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4804/images1ii8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

look you need to let things settle,bough out if your nervy, sell,things are globally difficult, but not terminal, it will level out,and a return is a cert...hotel or not....this is a location issue,if we loose our shirt others will be arrested for streaking...hold your nerve.....

i think some people are missing the point here. the question here is not IF BC is going to be completed, but WHEN, and how much responsibility should Select shoulder for the delays. i invested in BC expecting the usual one year delay or so, but what we have in BC is that part of the project (the hotel) is in question now, and delays could easily stretch to 3-4 years.

as investors, we should never accept that. Select should know that they will have to pay for this, either by freezing payments for some time until construction has reached a point that justifies further payments or rescheduling payments to match the revised completion date.

in today's economic conditions, it will be very tough to sell off-plan apartments with completion dates in 2112-2113, and the capital appreciation will be null if not negative. so what we are loosing here is both capital appreciation and rental revenue. this is called "dead money", and Select will have to pay for this some how or another.

personally, i think freezing payments for some time and/or rescheduling payments is very feasible if we work together as one group and show Select how serious we are. hiring a law firm will be one way for doing that imo.

Dubman: Nice ad #2348...again!! :nuts:

i think some people are missing the point here. the question here is not IF BC is going to be completed, but WHEN, and how much responsibility should Select shoulder for the delays. i invested in BC expecting the usual one year delay or so, but what we have in BC is that part of the project (the hotel) is in question now, and delays could easily stretch to 3-4 years.

as investors, we should never accept that. Select should know that they will have to pay for this, either by freezing payments for some time until construction has reached a point that justifies further payments or rescheduling payments to match the revised completion date.

in today's economic conditions, it will be very tough to sell off-plan apartments with completion dates in 2112-2113, and the capital appreciation will be null if not negative. so what we are loosing here is both capital appreciation and rental revenue. this is called "dead money", and Select will have to pay for this some how or another.

personally, i think freezing payments for some time and/or rescheduling payments is very feasible if we work together as one group and show Select how serious we are. hiring a law firm will be one way for doing that imo.

Glover...you have made a massive claim in your statement that is absolutely devastating. You say "the Hotel is now in question". If this is true i agree with all your sentiments and i am on board for any fight. Please state as a matter of fact where you got this priceless information and prove it's valadity!
If this is just your opinion i would genuinely ask that this kind of speculation is not printed on this site as it is having an adverse affect on resales in an already volatile world. Remember all and any can read this site and this kind of print WILL have an affect on anyone that was considering buying.

I have been told many times that this is a construction website and i am will be dissapointed that the moderators continue to allow this kind of speculation if this is what it is.

Contrary to attacking SP i must ask the moderators to intervene with any further postings that can lead to a possible negative affect on my investments. SPECULATION of this nature WILL have this kind of affect.

If you back up your info and prove my points wrong i will go on record and apologize.

Before your usual childish defencies kick in and you accuse me of working for SP i can assure anyone reading this i am a worried investor with several properties in BC. Some i hope to resell, some iw ill lease out and one i will live. My main worries come form the continue negative diatribe allowed on this site.

Fianlly if i may offer you advice on your payments. If anyone is silly enough to freeze their payments on a hunch or speculation and go against the contract then they can and will be punished by the developer. You may lose your investment. Watch what you are doing. This is crazy and can only ened in tears.

Glover...you have made a massive claim in your statement that is absolutely devastating. You say "the Hotel is now in question". If this is true i agree with all your sentiments and i am on board for any fight. Please state as a matter of fact where you got this priceless information and prove it's valadity!
If this is just your opinion i would genuinely ask that this kind of speculation is not printed on this site as it is having an adverse affect on resales in an already volatile world. Remember all and any can read this site and this kind of print WILL have an affect on anyone that was considering buying.

I have been told many times that this is a construction website and i am will be dissapointed that the moderators continue to allow this kind of speculation if this is what it is.

Contrary to attacking SP i must ask the moderators to intervene with any further postings that can lead to a possible negative affect on my investments. SPECULATION of this nature WILL have this kind of affect.

If you back up your info and prove my points wrong i will go on record and apologize.

Before your usual childish defencies kick in and you accuse me of working for SP i can assure anyone reading this i am a worried investor with several properties in BC. Some i hope to resell, some iw ill lease out and one i will live. My main worries come form the continue negative diatribe allowed on this site.

Fianlly if i may offer you advice on your payments. If anyone is silly enough to freeze their payments on a hunch or speculation and go against the contract then they can and will be punished by the developer. You may lose your investment. Watch what you are doing. This is crazy and can only ened in tears.

PM Me if you have a problem,

i think some people are missing the point here. the question here is not IF BC is going to be completed, but WHEN, and how much responsibility should Select shoulder for the delays. i invested in BC expecting the usual one year delay or so, but what we have in BC is that part of the project (the hotel) is in question now, and delays could easily stretch to 3-4 years.

as investors, we should never accept that. Select should know that they will have to pay for this, either by freezing payments for some time until construction has reached a point that justifies further payments or rescheduling payments to match the revised completion date.

in today's economic conditions, it will be very tough to sell off-plan apartments with completion dates in 2112-2113, and the capital appreciation will be null if not negative. so what we are loosing here is both capital appreciation and rental revenue. this is called "dead money", and Select will have to pay for this some how or another.

personally, i think freezing payments for some time and/or rescheduling payments is very feasible if we work together as one group and show Select how serious we are. hiring a law firm will be one way for doing that imo.

From what has been said on this site Dec09 completion is not possible and a substantial delay is inevitable. Whether you have bought to live in BC or bought to rent or bought to resell, no of us can be happy with this. I think we as investors have a right to know the likely completion date for BC as it is key to all our plans. SP are effectively refusing to give an honest update as all their people from top to bottom are sticking with the Dec09 date.

Seems like we will have to apply some sort of pressure to get them to respond honestly. What is the best way of doing this?

i would like to see the email from select that glover got? stating the delay

^^^ where did i say Select sent me an email saying there is a delay!!!

just as important, they need to officially update investors about the status of the hotel, why have they not started yet on building it when in the contract the three towers are treated as one project!

we need to work as a group, only then they will take us seriuosly!! as it stands now, there policy is to bullshit all inquiries!

From what has been said on this site Dec09 completion is not possible and a substantial delay is inevitable. Whether you have bought to live in BC or bought to rent or bought to resell, no of us can be happy with this. I think we as investors have a right to know the likely completion date for BC as it is key to all our plans. SP are effectively refusing to give an honest update as all their people from top to bottom are sticking with the Dec09 date.

Seems like we will have to apply some sort of pressure to get them to respond honestly. What is the best way of doing this?

If this is just your opinion i would genuinely ask that this kind of speculation is not printed on this site as it is having an adverse affect on resales in an already volatile world. Remember all and any can read this site and this kind of print WILL have an affect on anyone that was considering buying.

Contrary to attacking SP i must ask the moderators to intervene with any further postings that can lead to a possible negative affect on my investments. SPECULATION of this nature WILL have this kind of affect.

I am a worried investor with several properties in BC. Some i hope to resell, some iw ill lease out and one i will live. My main worries come form the continue negative diatribe allowed on this site.

Get over yourself man, Who do think you are ?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because you dont agree with it you start throwing your toys out of your pram asking for the Moderators to step in and delete the posts you dont like becuase it may effect your investments adversly.

Get real. Dubai is all about speculation and you yourself are speculating big time and the tide is begining to turn on people that are speculating.

There has been speculation on most of the threads in this forum on how long construction will take, what the finishes will be like, what will end up next door, or behined, or infront of a project.

Moderators actively take part in speculative discussions regarding projects as do all of us so jump of your high horse and give it a rest.

If you think property valuations are based on internet forum discussions then your living in a dream.

I suggest you wake up.

sorry glover my mistake... i thought you got a response from select :bash:

"DxbPC: Fianlly if i may offer you advice on your payments. If anyone is silly enough to freeze their payments on a hunch or speculation and go against the contract then they can and will be punished by the developer. You may lose your investment. Watch what you are doing. This is crazy and can only ened in tears."

and you claim you are not associated with Select!!! so that's what Select told you to say today, that they will "punish" us!

the more you post, the more i become convinced that, some way or another, you work for Select!

Look at this website...www.rpdubai.ae
Within list of approved projects, only BC-W and BC-C are mentioned!
Any news for BC east?:ohno:
We all need a prompt reply from SP about delays and hotel construction...:bash:

Get over yourself man, Who do think you are ?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because you dont agree with it you start throwing your toys out of your pram asking for the Moderators to step in and delete the posts you dont like becuase it may effect your investments adversly.

Get real. Dubai is all about speculation and you yourself are speculating big time and the tide is begining to turn on people that are speculating.

There has been speculation on most of the threads in this forum on how long construction will take, what the finishes will be like, what will end up next door, or behined, or infront of a project.

Moderators actively take part in speculative discussions regarding projects as do all of us so jump of your high horse and give it a rest.

If you think property valuations are based on internet forum discussions then your living in a dream.

I suggest you wake up.

Clearly i am not part of the gang but thats no problem. Contary to you immature opinion and mis quotation of me i am equally concerned. HOWEVER Glover stated factually on this site that "but what we have in BC is that part of the project (the hotel) is in question", where did he get this info and if its an opinion why did he lead by a statement.
I don't really understand why you can'y see that other than limited intelligence. If he makes official staement as he does people may think he is in the know and then avoid this project...that definately affects me!
Once and for all Glover and all the Gang...Where did Glover get the FACTS that "part of the project is in question". If it is factual i will not only offer support i will lead the charge...if it is speculative don't write factually.
So...over to you Glover - Is it factual or only YOUR opinion?

p.s i expect to be barred soon from this site as i always disagree with the sycophants. So...

Love to all

"DxbPC: Fianlly if i may offer you advice on your payments. If anyone is silly enough to freeze their payments on a hunch or speculation and go against the contract then they can and will be punished by the developer. You may lose your investment. Watch what you are doing. This is crazy and can only ened in tears."

and you claim you are not associated with Select!!! so that's what Select told you to say today, that they will "punish" us!

the more you post, the more i become convinced that, some way or another, you work for Select!


Great politics...dis-credit anyone elses opinion.
Lets play for real!!! I will send a copy of all my BC contracts of sale to anyone wishing to challenge me. I will expect to see a copy of theirs in return.
Your opinions are in my opinion damaging to the resale market. That is my main concern. Your ammature sleauth type behaviour is the wrong approach. If you are genuine with your concern and approach you don't announce it to the enemy. Surprise is the best element. Why are you giving them time to shore up the barracks? Why not deal with it, act on your instincts, get the positive result, be the saviour then come back here and we will all love you [more]. Why all the shouting and bawling with no stratedgy.
Back to you. What pearl of wisdom in the name calling circles can i expect now???
If i may offer you advice - make your payments until you have a firm stratedgy in place. Then freeze them.

p.s. if we all froze our accounts and left them with no money to build what would happen then. Vicious circle.

This is an open forum.

Any discussion with relevant support of information is welcome. We cannot talk up or down projects value. Probably only 1% of Dubai investors visit this website.

I don’t see eye to eye with ever user on here, but at the same time we are all part of ssc.
I have to sit on the fence and stick to the rules myself.

Clearly i am not part of the gang but thats no problem. Contary to you immature opinion and mis quotation of me i am equally concerned. HOWEVER Glover stated factually on this site that "but what we have in BC is that part of the project (the hotel) is in question", where did he get this info and if its an opinion why did he lead by a statement.
I don't really understand why you can'y see that other than limited intelligence. If he makes official staement as he does people may think he is in the know and then avoid this project...that definately affects me!
Once and for all Glover and all the Gang...Where did Glover get the FACTS that "part of the project is in question". If it is factual i will not only offer support i will lead the charge...if it is speculative don't write factually.
So...over to you Glover - Is it factual or only YOUR opinion?

p.s i expect to be barred soon from this site as i always disagree with the sycophants. So...

Love to all

This statement (in red) fits really well with all of your posts, you don't have to come on here and read other people's opinions if it upsets you or your friends that much. :bash::bash:

@Glover; keep going Pal, you are getting warm.......warmer........warmer...:):cheers:

This is an open forum.

Any discussion with relevant support of information is welcome. We cannot talk up or down projects value. Probably only 1% of Dubai investors visit this website.

I don’t see eye to eye with ever user on here, but at the same time we are all part of ssc.
I have to sit on the fence and stick to the rules myself.

I thought, this was not a democracy. Was there a change of policies recently? :lol: :banana: :jk:

This statement (in red) fits really well with all of your posts, you don't have to come on here and read other people's opinions if it upsets you or your friends that much. :bash::bash:

@Glover; keep going Pal, you are getting warm.......warmer........warmer...:):cheers:

You are of course correct i do not have to come on here. I am clearly in the minority and attempted to join the gang to late.
I will leave you all with my best wishes for now and look forward to meeting all end users in the Bar in the Hotel that will be on the site at Bay Central.

Good luck with your crusades. Hope all goes well, Gang members number 1, Sale234 or Malec can you cancel my subscription please.
I will publish my thoughts of this site and BC on my own website and welcome anyone.

Cheers

^^Oh come back, I was only kidding :hug: Morris will let you join his gang :lol:
Having said that and reading through some of his latest posts, I am not sure that his gang is much different now :)

People on here are not that bad.........honest :cheers:

Pressure really works and you will get a result as a group. How do I know..........Because I have been there once already :cheers: Keeping a diary of all events helps too........:)

first timer??? :lol:

Look at this website...www.rpdubai.ae
Within list of approved projects, only BC-W and BC-C are mentioned!
Any news for BC east?:ohno:
We all need a prompt reply from SP about delays and hotel construction...:bash:

Well spotted!! Entering Bay Central as the search terms throws up the west and central towers only. Put Hotel as the search term and Bay Central does NOT appear in the list.

I said in one of my earlier posts about a month ago that SP had told me approval for the hotel was expected "anyday now".

It seems plausible that SP would want to slow down progress until issues with the hotel were sorted. It is also clear that there have been substantial delays on other SP projects such the Torch.

Difficult times are so beautiful like aggressive High Times comments . :runaway:


:D

first timer??? :lol:

Yes, sorry I forgot :lol::lol:

Difficult times are so beautiful like aggressive High Times comments . :runaway:

:D

Man; you are my favourite by far on this forum, I even use some of your quotes in my presentation to break the ice......:lol: Nobody speaks/write English the way you do, Which translator do you use?

Naz My teacher (U.K) elso DUBAI (AUS) :lol:

Torch buyers will start to get their compensation April 09 as this project is also well behind. The Torch contract seems to allow for ongoing compensation ie not restricted to 12 months where as it is restricted to 12 months with BC. Also no clause in BC contract re SP having to use reasonable endevours to complete on time unlike Torch contract.

If you were a cynic you would say it looks like SP were allowing for potential substantial delays in BC project when they sold the project.

I reckon a joint approach to RERA might help clarify matters. Can't see it would hinder.

If you were a cynic you would say it looks like SP were allowing for potential substantial delays in BC project when they sold the project.


Of course, and blatantly obvious. All their projects are launched with completion dates that are far from realistic. BC was launched like early 2007 with a completion date of Dec 2009. Two years to build a complex of three towers .. no chance. Their sales agent would tell you that by Dec2009 you can rent your unit to cover the payments. Little do you know that by 2010 and beyond, you'll still be paying to look at a hole in a ground.

The same holds true for Aquitainia on the world Island. Launched this year, completion 2012...dreamers

Guys - all genuine BC investors need to put aside any petty disputes and work together on this one.

Maktol - I for one understand the points you made. All this crap about no hotel is just rubbish. Background noise with no basis in fact. The fact that it is not on a list posted somewhere on the internet maybe due to the fact that it is not a RESIDENTIAL building...?

The agruments about stopping payments are basically nonsence - you need to honour your side of the contract in order to have a leg to stand on. There will be a point however, if after compensation period we are STILL not notified of a handover date where OUR legal team would be able to negotiate better terms for us. What they are I do not want to explore at this present point in time.

Also other investors need to be aware of 'sharks' that swim among us. If you are scared easily and have a weak hand, then do us all a favour and SELL OUT of BC. Absolutly no skin of my big hooter...

The type of work being carried out on this project will have to be monitored closely by all concerned. If they don't have any rebar placed to the main rafts by end of year then there will be serious cause for concern that this project has been put on hold.

The contractor has not started any of the real stuff yet(very technical speak :)) they are still messing around in the sand I feel.

2 months work; :ohno:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1860/img0211vy0.jpg

At the end of August the piles had already been cut down, in the following 2 months they have only placed the blinding concrete and built a wall. Should have been waterproofed by now and started on the rebar.

there is in my contracts, clause 8.3, which opens the door for a solid lawsuit.


Also no clause in BC contract re SP having to use reasonable endevours to complete on time unlike Torch contract.

Your opinions are in my opinion damaging to the resale market.

you really are living in a cave, aren't you!

the only one who is damaging our investment is Select, by their substantial delays and misinformation.

it is we who speak based on the facts on the ground, and the burden is on Select and their defenders to prove us wrong. the site pictures speak for themselves!

fact 1. construction is way way behind schedule
fact 2. no work whatsoever has been done on the hotel building as of today
fact 3. select has lied in writing about piling of the hotel being done
fact 4. Select has unofficially said they don't have all the permits yet for the hotel
fact. 5 Select refuses to acknowledge the obvious and denies any problems with the completion date and the construction of the hotel

i say we hire a law firm and let them deal with Select. one thing for sure, when RERA knows all the facts, Select will have a lot of explaining to do

you really are living in a cave, aren't you!

the only one who is damaging our investment is Select, by their substantial delays and misinformation.

it is we who speak based on the facts on the ground, and the burden is on Select and their defenders to prove us wrong. the site pictures speak for themselves!

fact 1. construction is way way behind schedule
fact 2. no work whatsoever has been done on the hotel building as of today
fact 3. select has lied in writing about piling of the hotel being done
fact 4. Select has unofficially said they don't have all the permits yet for the hotel
fact. 5 Select refuses to acknowledge the obvious and denies any problems with the completion date and the construction of the hotel

i say we hire a law firm and let them deal with Select. one thing for sure, when RERA knows all the facts, Select will have a lot of explaining to do



Glover pls go on and count me in.
I’m sure they are facing difficulties financing the construction. We should have access to our escrow account bank statements and see what’s going on with them. Considering the answers you get from SP I agree that from now on it’s a lawyer’s job.

you really are living in a cave, aren't you!

the only one who is damaging our investment is Select, by their substantial delays and misinformation.

it is we who speak based on the facts on the ground, and the burden is on Select and their defenders to prove us wrong. the site pictures speak for themselves!

fact 1. construction is way way behind schedule
fact 2. no work whatsoever has been done on the hotel building as of today
fact 3. select has lied in writing about piling of the hotel being done
fact 4. Select has unofficially said they don't have all the permits yet for the hotel
fact. 5 Select refuses to acknowledge the obvious and denies any problems with the completion date and the construction of the hotel

i say we hire a law firm and let them deal with Select. one thing for sure, when RERA knows all the facts, Select will have a lot of explaining to do

We have no authoritative expert written evidence that progress is substantially behind schedule which is our only complaint. Clearly it is foolish to stop making the payments without breach of contract on BC's part as the terms are contractually binding on us.

Any approach to SP on this issue only illicits the response that BC is on schedule. We have no authoritative, expert written opinion that progress is substantially behind schedule which is our only complaint. I think the first step is to seek an opinion from an independent construction expert(s) that carries weight or will RERA be able to assess this for themselves? I don't think an approach to a lawyer without an expert opinion on progress won't get us far.

^^Very good idea, and we should be able to pick the very best (arabtec?) in the current economic climate!

im sure if we get a law firm who deal with dubai property will have there own experts.. i think we should get the ball rolling and count how many of us are in..

so far in i can see is:

myself
glover
FWIW
slowhand99
georgios48

If Select extended their compensation to cover all the time until completion, would that appease people? Just thinking about what we want out of this (assuming we cannot speed up the building process).

^^NO...

ok then, FWIW, assuming arabtec confirm what we all already know, what next?
Surely if we launch legal action that will slow the process down even futher??

its gonna come to a stop when they cant doo anymore..

when they have too make progress on the third tower

ok then, FWIW, assuming arabtec confirm what we all already know, what next?
Surely if we launch legal action that will slow the process down even futher??

Thanks for your suggestion. The compensation we will get will roughly equal the amount they earn on our funds if they don't progress construction so no great pressure on them (although it is an improvement on current compensation provisions). We need someone like RERA to force SP to complete in reasonable timescales or let someone else take over. I reckon SP have too much creditability to lose in Dubai and as a developer to not act.


Pressure now should force SP to come clean and strenthen any case we put to RERA who in turn should pressure BC to speed up construction.

This is the outcome we want - a new completion date so we know what this is and pressure on them to work to it.

RERA on their website state (under News then RERA news) they have resolve the dispute re Dubai Lagoons Project and project is now going ahead. They have established better monitoring of the project. Isn't this what we want?

The law firm will play the role of the coordinator. They will propose the strategy and the actions that should be taken step by step. Otherwise each one of us will have different opinion on what to do first and what next. Considering the “colonial” type of contract that we have confidingly signed, I do not believe that we can handle it by ourselves without legal advice.

SP review the contents of this site, and some of their employees also contibute to the contents here. It would be nice if they could send some kind of reassurance mail to end the speculation here and to rebuild some confidence in their investors.

SP review the contents of this site, and some of their employees also contibute to the contents here. It would be nice if they could send some kind of reassurance mail to end the speculation here and to rebuild some confidence in their investors.

That would be great but don't hold your breath. They have been asked recently at a senior level for a new date but haven't given one. There has to be significant issues they are considering otherwise this situation doesn't make sense.

I think it is important for all investors to know the new completion date so they can make their own plans. Personally I am in it for the long haul because BC is likely to be a great investment because of its location but I would like to know the new date so I can plan accordingly.

my thinking also. lets keep track on how many people will be on board for hiring a law firm. i will start the search for one here in dubai when we decide to do so, which should be within 2-3 weeks!

The law firm will play the role of the coordinator. They will propose the strategy and the actions that should be taken step by step. Otherwise each one of us will have different opinion on what to do first and what next. Considering the “colonial” type of contract that we have confidingly signed, I do not believe that we can handle it by ourselves without legal advice.

Look at this website...www.rpdubai.ae
Within list of approved projects, only BC-W and BC-C are mentioned!
Any news for BC east?:ohno:
We all need a prompt reply from SP about delays and hotel construction...:bash:

^^If you go by the RERA web site Timeplace is not amongst the approved projects, Marina View Towers is not approved etc. These projects were handed over in early 2008. The RERA web site is a mess and incomplete.

^^If you go by the RERA web site Timeplace is not amongst the approved projects, Marina View Towers is not approved etc. These projects were handed over in early 2008. The RERA web site is a mess and incomplete.

maybe it has recently been established ie in last few months and is only kept up to date for ongoing projects not past ones. It doesn't make sense to have such a database and it not be correct as it defeats the purpose of the database.

RERA on their website (under News then RERA news) state that they have resolved the dispute re Dubai Lagoons Project and project is now going ahead. They have established better monitoring of the project. Isn't this what we want?

Why don't we as a group do just this now? Has anyone any experience of dealing with RERA on such issues?

maybe it has recently been established ie in last few months and is only kept up to date for ongoing projects not past ones. It doesn't make sense to have such a database and it not be correct as it defeats the purpose of the database.

^^Well, in this case Marina Diamond 1 to 6 should not be on the list either, they have been completed for months, MD 1 for years, but guess what: they are on the list of approved projects. So clearly: not a very logical list.

Important Notice to Bay Central Purchasers

Clearly the project is not going to be completed by Dec'09 and is way behind schedule, it will take many years for it to be handed over to us.

Whatever we do, either as individuals or a group do not fall into the trap of dealing with Select Property. The way SP have set this up, they are simply the selling agent and not the developer this way they can keep everything at arms length and blame a third party for the issues. Whenever you enquire they say they will contact the developer for you. It's the same as buying a property through Better Homes and then expecting them to deal with construction delays. I bet nobody here has actually spoken with or had any dealings with the Bay Central developer ??

The Seller/Developer for the West Tower is:

Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited
PO Box 112967
Dubai
U.A.E.

The formal address is:

Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited
Emaar Business Park
Building 4
Second Floor Office
205 Sheikh Zayed Road
Dubai
UAE

Tel: 00971-(4)368 3355 Fax: 00971 (4) 368 3344

The Central Tower developer will be similar details I presume although I have only bought in WT. (This information can be obtained from you contract and also the receipts for payments issued - have a good look at them).

I would suggest that when you next contact SP ask them to provide you with a contact name for the developer. Also ask for an e-mail address. Any future enquiries should then be made direct to the developer as would apply in any other purchase in Dubai. Any emails/letters should be sent to the developer and not SP - if we ultimately have to take the matter to RERA (which seems very likely) then any correspondence from SP will not hold water, as this will simply be from the selling agent.

Also any replies from Bay Central Developments should be on their own letterheading.

This is the starting point, do not be fooled into dealing with SP who legally are only a third party here.

Finally...........good luck. :)

Morris

Do you have the contact details for the Torch development?

Thanks

Hi Foxy,

Have a look at your contract and the details on the receipts issued to you.

Thanks I've got it. :cheers:

I don't care any more :cry:

I will switch off everything for a few months :)

I'm not kidding at all.........Tell me Mackie who is the developer of Bay Central and The Torch ?? Give me the names of the developers who are building these two projects ??

Also why when you speak to SP about construction issues do they say they will have to refer them to the developer ?? You haven't bought from a British company at all. The Seller is based in Dubai, just look at your contract !!


They're staying just the right side of the law here..........your contract and receipts are comming from Dubai........and you're falling for it.:ohno:

I'm beginning to wonder if you work for SP. :lol:

I don't care any more :cry:

I will switch off everything for a few months :)

Important Notice to Bay Central Purchasers

Clearly the project is not going to be completed by Dec'09 and is way behind schedule, it will take many years for it to be handed over to us.

Whatever we do, either as individuals or a group do not fall into the trap of dealing with Select Property. The way SP have set this up, they are simply the selling agent and not the developer this way they can keep everything at arms length and blame a third party for the issues. Whenever you enquire they say they will contact the developer for you. It's the same as buying a property through Better Homes and then expecting them to deal with construction delays. I bet nobody here has actually spoken with or had any dealings with the Bay Central developer ??

The Seller/Developer for the West Tower is:

Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited
PO Box 112967
Dubai
U.A.E.

The formal address is:

Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited
Emaar Business Park
Building 4
Second Floor Office
205 Sheikh Zayed Road
Dubai
UAE

Tel: 00971-(4)368 3355 Fax: 00971 (4) 368 3344

The Central Tower developer will be similar details I presume although I have only bought in WT. (This information can be obtained from you contract and also the receipts for payments issued - have a good look at them).

I would suggest that when you next contact SP ask them to provide you with a contact name for the developer. Also ask for an e-mail address. Any future enquiries should then be made direct to the developer as would apply in any other purchase in Dubai. Any emails/letters should be sent to the developer and not SP - if we ultimately have to take the matter to RERA (which seems very likely) then any correspondence from SP will not hold water, as this will simply be from the selling agent.

Also any replies from Bay Central Developments should be on their own letterheading.

This is the starting point, do not be fooled into dealing with SP who legally are only a third party here.

Finally...........good luck. :)


Good point! SP sold Bahar 6 in JBR on this basis. Presumably SP are paid on monies collected so that is why they are progress chase payments right now and that is why they are keen to launch earlier than perhaps they should do. Wouldn't be surprised though if SP have a share of or some interest in the developer but it is a separate company based in Dubai as you say.

According to the RERA site the developer is BCD as you state with EMAAR being the Master Developer. Why don't we go straight to RERA now perhaps on the back of an expert opinion on construction progress so far?

Important Notice to Bay Central Purchasers
The way SP have set this up, they are simply the selling agent and not the developer this way they can keep everything at arms length and blame a third party for the issues.

How do you explain below taken from the homepage of www.selectproperty.com?

Select Investment Property
Select Property is the UK’s leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

How do you explain below taken from the homepage of www.selectproperty.com?

Select Investment Property
Select Property is the UK’s leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

It is all sales BS as they have not delivered any projects.

I think you guys have got the right idea here, get RERA to intervene and stop them collecting payments which are now totally out of sync with progress:applause:

How do you explain below taken from the homepage of www.selectproperty.com?

Select Investment Property
Select Property is the UK’s leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

Sorry I can't explain any of this I'm afraid.

All I know is that SP are not the developer of TT or BC. SP admit this themselves all the time when you speak to them.........they say they need to "refer to the developer" ...... which to be fair to them is absolutely correct. They are simply the sales agent based in the UK. They issue contracts and attend to adminstration work as a selling agent of the developer. This is the legal position. Just the same as say Better Homes selling units in Princess for Tameer......not sure if they do, but you know what I mean as an example here.

Select Property is Mark Stott and Select Group is Rahail Aslam...... hence why they now refer to their projects as being a partnership between SP and SG. Also this is why there are two separate websites.

www.selectproperty.com

www.select-group.ae/

If any action is taken with RERA they will not be interested in a Company based in Wilmslow as they have no power to regulate UK companies. All they will be concerned about is the developer registered with them in Dubai which is Bay Central Phase 1 Developments Limited......... and what the developer has confirmed or not confirmed to investors.

Let's wise up folks and if we're looking for formal confirmation of anything, to put in our files, in our diaries, or present to RERA, or whatever........then we need it from the developer not SP.

^^

Another reason why i didnt warm up to the BC contract. The company (SP) is registered in the UK and issues contracts govern by the laws of Dubai. Any defaults on their side and you cant touch them ...investors are simply out of jurisdiction.

All of their developments operate under a different company name. What nuisance is that?

Sorry I can't explain any of this I'm afraid.

All I know is that SP are not the developer of TT or BC. SP admit this themselves all the time when you speak to them.........they say they need to "refer to the developer" ...... which to be fair to them is absolutely correct. They are simply the sales agent based in the UK. They issue contracts and attend to adminstration work as a selling agent of the developer. This is the legal position. Just the same as say Better Homes selling units in Princess for Tameer......not sure if they do, but you know what I mean as an example here.

Select Property is Mark Stott and Select Group is Rahail Aslam...... hence why they now refer to their projects as being a partnership between SP and SG. Also this is why there are two separate websites.

www.selectproperty.com

www.select-group.ae/

If any action is taken with RERA they will not be interested in a Company based in Wilmslow as they have no power to regulate UK companies. All they will be concerned about is the developer registered with them in Dubai which is Bay Central Phase 1 Developments Limited......... and what the developer has confirmed or not confirmed to investors.

Let's wise up folks and if we're looking for formal confirmation of anything, to put in our files, in our diaries, or present to RERA, or whatever........then we need it from the developer not SP.

It seems straight forward now. We need to approach RERA re slow progress by Dubai based developer and forget SP for time being. How do we do this? Do we need an expert opinion re stage of construction?

SP are likely to get paid based on collection of monies so they are not going to help us are they! Despite us all feeling misled by them I can't see much value pursuing them right now if at all because of their status as selling agent.

From the entire posts one conclusion comes out clearly: Our problem is too complicated to be handled by ourselves. In fact is a mess of developers, agents and constructors. We don’t even know what to address to whom!

Shall we leave experts to decide what should be done, when and against whom?

Otherwise we can chat for ever!!! Until 2012 for sure!

like i said before leave it too the law firm who deal with property law...!

This is how I see the way forward:

There's no need to engage expensive lawyers, certainly not at this early stage, that will be some time way in the future and there's no need for expert opinions about the state of progress, at this early stage we can deal with these matters ourselves.

I would recommend that we all initially take individual action, this will be better IMO than working as group to start with as there will be more letters in circulation for the developer to deal with, more replies and hence evidence to present to RERA.

For now we cannot involve RERA yet as they will naturally want to see that we have explored all avenues with the developer first before becomming involved.

I would ask each investor to send a letter to the developer, this should be sent to the PO Box address as stated on your contract. Check your payment receipts as these will have been issued by the developer and will give you their formal address at Emaar Business Park. Address your letter here but post it to the PO Box address. Ensure all contact is by letter, it may be low tech and slow but at least the reponses will be in writing. Your receipts will also detail telephone and fax numbers. However do not accept verbal information by way of telephone calls, always insist that everything is backed up in writing. Emails are not on headed paper and telephone conversations can be denied and will not be sufficient proof for RERA to take action when we reach that stage later on. (SP for example are always very keen to respond to awkward emails by telephoning you......so there is no formal record of what has been said).

The initial letter should outline our concerns about the lack of progress and should ask that the developer confirms their realistic anticipated completion date. An explanation for the delays should be sought along with asking them to confirm whether or not the piling has been completed for the East Tower. Also ask for a schedule of when the various stages of contruction will be finished ie. when will piling for the East Tower be undertaken and completed, waterproofing, podium construction, tower topped out etc. along with timescales for these works. We need to tie them down to providing this information. Do not simply accept a statement that completion is still on track for Dec 2009 as this is impossible and not a realistic completion date.

Keep copies of all correspondence. I am personally not keen to establish an email group as confidentiality cannot be assured and I think at this stage an individual approach would work best. Depending on the responses we receive then we if we are not satisfied we can approach RERA as a group which I am happy to co-ordinate at such time.

I am happy to co-ordinate our efforts but feel this should be away from SSC and hence not in the public domain for obvious reasons. Could I ask that every investor who is genuinely concerned about progress on the site and wants to take the matter forward in this way initially sends me a PM so I can correspond with you further.

^^Morris - Thanks for taking the time to write such a clear and informative post.

I agree that an initial, individual approach is the best way forwards at this point in time.

I am willing to join a group, but need to be 100% sure that everyone involved is a current and existing investor in Bay Central.

i have already started my individual contact with Select, already got their response in writing and wrote them a follow up, and got a confirmation of receiving the follow up from both the England and Dubai offices.

but how long do we have to put up with their misinformation!

i am going to wait for another 2 weeks or so, if i don't hear back from them, i will start looking for a lawyer and/or file a complaint with RERA. clearly, the way Select is handling this tells me they will have more to loose than gain if they acknowledge the obvious. it's better for them to bullshit all enquiries unless they are forced to do otherwise.

BTW. i like the request for schedule for the various stages of construction. that will be like an early warning system for us.

Last word from me on this subject :)

A lawyer in Dubai will read the contract and will charge you about 20/30 hrs and will then advise you that there is not much you can do under the current Dubai laws, especially that you have a one and only chance via an industrial Arbitration. After which and because their decision is final, you would not be able to take them to court.

On the other hand, a British lawyer that deals with international cases, similar to this would find many ways under tha British Laws to both higlight all possible winners and make a clear case for the connections/employees/roles of the whole entire company and not just the developer.

By all means, listen to all arguments but I urge you to not disregard the DS/SG connection........I really don't understand the motive of some people on here. I don't trust many people on here, if any. Over the last few days I had many PMs, most of them are dodgy and I would not trust these people with my information, especially the ones with more than one name on this forum.

I am too going it alone (no email group or forum group or the group of all groups). I have already started the process. RERA is going to do f**k all for me. :cheers:

Good Luck to you all.

I have asked for a construction schedules and meetings with project managers to discuss progress for years now and they will not accommodate any of my requests. Early, they said they would arrange a conference call for me with the project manager but it did not materialise. :ohno:

Thanks for your patient Altin, Malec and Sale :)

Last word from me on this subject :)

A lawyer in Dubai will read the contract and will charge you about 20/30 hrs and will then advise you that there is not much you can do under the current Dubai laws, especially that you have a one and only chance via an industrial Arbitration. After which and because their decision is final, you would not be able to take them to court.

On the other hand, a British lawyer that deals with international cases, similar to this would find many ways under tha British Laws to both higlight all possible winners and make a clear case for the connections/employees/roles of the whole entire company and not just the developer.

By all means, listen to all arguments but I urge you to not disregard the DS/SG connection........I really don't understand the motive of some people on here. I don't trust many people on here, if any. Over the last few days I had many PMs, most of them are dodgy and I would not trust these people with my information, especially the ones with more than one name on this forum.

I am too going it alone (no email group or forum group or the group of all groups). I have already started the process. RERA is going to do f**k all for me. :cheers:

Good Luck to you all.

I have asked for a construction schedules and meetings with project managers to discuss progress for years now and they will not accommodate any of my requests. Early, they said they would arrange a conference call for me with the project manager but it did not materialise. :ohno:

Thanks for your patient Altin, Malec and Sale :)

just be careful with british lawyers who call themselves international as well. i contracted one for a property problem i had in spain.he kept sending fee notes but it eventually turned out he had done nothing.I finally had to report him to law society.he then never responded to law society.he has now retired and the law society has found his service totally lacking. i am still awaiting final compensation .
best of luck
:ohno:dxbgo

glover : has already tried too contact SP and is waiting for more Bullshit

mackie : says that RERA wont do F**K all..

so what option do we have left?

lets all go it alone and well waste more time and be no better..

glover : has already tried too contact SP and is waiting for more Bullshit

mackie : says that RERA wont do F**K all..

so what option do we have left?

lets all go it alone and well waste more time and be no better..

any phone call to Bay Central Developments in Dubai is bounced back to SP in Wilmslow.

i have already started my individual contact with Select, already got their response in writing and wrote them a follow up, and got a confirmation of receiving the follow up from both the England and Dubai offices.

but how long do we have to put up with their misinformation!

i am going to wait for another 2 weeks or so, if i don't hear back from them, i will start looking for a lawyer and/or file a complaint with RERA. clearly, the way Select is handling this tells me they will have more to loose than gain if they acknowledge the obvious. it's better for them to bullshit all enquiries unless they are forced to do otherwise.

BTW. i like the request for schedule for the various stages of construction. that will be like an early warning system for us.

any phone call to Bay Central Developments in Dubai is bounced back to SP in Wilmslow.

This is how I see the way forward:

There's no need to engage expensive lawyers, certainly not at this early stage, that will be some time way in the future and there's no need for expert opinions about the state of progress, at this early stage we can deal with these matters ourselves.

I would recommend that we all initially take individual action, this will be better IMO than working as group to start with as there will be more letters in circulation for the developer to deal with, more replies and hence evidence to present to RERA.

For now we cannot involve RERA yet as they will naturally want to see that we have explored all avenues with the developer first before becomming involved.

I would ask each investor to send a letter to the developer, this should be sent to the PO Box address as stated on your contract. Check your payment receipts as these will have been issued by the developer and will give you their formal address at Emaar Business Park. Address your letter here but post it to the PO Box address. Ensure all contact is by letter, it may be low tech and slow but at least the reponses will be in writing. Your receipts will also detail telephone and fax numbers. However do not accept verbal information by way of telephone calls, always insist that everything is backed up in writing. Emails are not on headed paper and telephone conversations can be denied and will not be sufficient proof for RERA to take action when we reach that stage later on. (SP for example are always very keen to respond to awkward emails by telephoning you......so there is no formal record of what has been said).

The initial letter should outline our concerns about the lack of progress and should ask that the developer confirms their realistic anticipated completion date. An explanation for the delays should be sought along with asking them to confirm whether or not the piling has been completed for the East Tower. Also ask for a schedule of when the various stages of contruction will be finished ie. when will piling for the East Tower be undertaken and completed, waterproofing, podium construction, tower topped out etc. along with timescales for these works. We need to tie them down to providing this information. Do not simply accept a statement that completion is still on track for Dec 2009 as this is impossible and not a realistic completion date.

Keep copies of all correspondence. I am personally not keen to establish an email group as confidentiality cannot be assured and I think at this stage an individual approach would work best. Depending on the responses we receive then we if we are not satisfied we can approach RERA as a group which I am happy to co-ordinate at such time.

I am happy to co-ordinate our efforts but feel this should be away from SSC and hence not in the public domain for obvious reasons. Could I ask that every investor who is genuinely concerned about progress on the site and wants to take the matter forward in this way initially sends me a PM so I can correspond with you further.

any phone call to Bay Central Developments in Dubai is bounced back to SP in Wilmslow.

How about making a phone call to Bay Central Developments in Dubai ?

How about making a phone call to Bay Central Developments in Dubai ?

Tried that and said they would ring me back. The phone call was returned by support staff SP Manchester who said they handled all queries on progress. Has anyone else had more luck?

Why the hell are people contacting SP ?? They're nothing to do with the building of Bay Central.

You need to contact the developer not the real estate agent. Do this by writing to them, phone calls are a complete waste of time, there is no record of what is said. Keep away from phone calls and emails. Also keep well away from SP. Look.......the way this is all set up is that Mark Stott owns Select Property, this is the sales and marketing company, they do not build anything.......they are simply in charge of sellling the stuff.

Their objective is to keep you away from the Developer, to divert any flack, hence why phone calls are bounced back to them in Wilmslow. You need to see that this is all a smokescreen !! Anything you do receive from SP is completely worthless. THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH THE DEVELOPER. Don't let SP play you off by insisting you deal with them, that's the game they want you to fall for.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself and this is my last post on the subject. I've already had some PM's from forumers and many thanks for these, will reply shortly. We can form a private email group between oursleves.

Why the hell are people contacting SP ?? They're nothing to do with the building of Bay Central.

You need to contact the developer not the real estate agent. Do this by writing to them, phone calls are a complete waste of time, there is no record of what is said. Keep away from phone calls and emails. Also keep well away from SP. Look.......the way this is all set up is that Mark Stott owns Select Property, this is the sales and marketing company, they do not build anything.......they are simply in charge of sellling the stuff.

Their objective is to keep you away from the Developer, to divert any flack, hence why phone calls are bounced back to them in Wilmslow. You need to see that this is all a smokescreen !! Anything you do receive from SP is completely worthless. THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH THE DEVELOPER. Don't let SP play you off by insisting you deal with them, that's the game they want you to fall for.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself and this is my last post on the subject . I've already had some PM's from forumers and many thanks for these, will reply shortly. We can form a private email group between oursleves.

I CERTAINLY DO HOPE THIS IS YOUR LAST POST WITH ALL MATTERS REGARDING SP. YOU MUST BE ONE OF THE MOST MANIPULATIVE PERSONS I HAVE EVER COME ACROSS ON THIS FORUM.

You are all praises when it comes to encouraging people to buy SP properties. You also tried to persuade me to buy in this development. People have now bought and in the current economic situation still have to pay large sums of money to SP for their units and there is no sign of their money being put to good use.

Your stance now suggests that SP are not the developers and are just sales agents for this development. What a load of bullshit?

I personally see no reason why people shouldn't take this matter up with expensive lawyers if they can afford to or involve an authorative body, like RERA if they so chose.

People around the world are losing their jobs and have lost quite a bit of money in the world markets. Why should they keep paying for a development that is absolutely going nowhere. This certainly needs to be addressed.

Why the hell are people contacting SP ?? They're nothing to do with the building of Bay Central.

You need to contact the developer not the real estate agent. Do this by writing to them, phone calls are a complete waste of time, there is no record of what is said. Keep away from phone calls and emails. Also keep well away from SP. Look.......the way this is all set up is that Mark Stott owns Select Property, this is the sales and marketing company, they do not build anything.......they are simply in charge of sellling the stuff.

Their objective is to keep you away from the Developer, to divert any flack, hence why phone calls are bounced back to them in Wilmslow. You need to see that this is all a smokescreen !! Anything you do receive from SP is completely worthless. THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH THE DEVELOPER. Don't let SP play you off by insisting you deal with them, that's the game they want you to fall for.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself and this is my last post on the subject. I've already had some PM's from forumers and many thanks for these, will reply shortly. We can form a private email group between oursleves.

I think we have all guessed Morrismarina works for SP. It is important that SP and BCD in Dubai know your feelings so keep ringing and writing to them both. Hopefully we will be told shortly how the current slow progress is going to be remedied. Until then keep ringing and writing.

Has work stopped on this development ?
I see that the banks have pulled the plug on some projects is this one of them?

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4804/images1ii8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Made some calls today to RERA (all in Arabic). What i suggest we do is two things:

1. After we agree on the points we need to raise, immediately file an online complaint with RERA as individuals. They have a special form for that, but you need to sign up with the site first. i have not done that yet.

here is the link. the section is called Complaints and is in red at the middle bottom. i was told it will take some time until we hear back from them, few weeks.

http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home.jsp?lang=0

2. RERA has also suggested that i contact the Real Estate Committee at Dubai Court. This does not mean that we will be filing a lawsuit, but it seems that they will act as an arbitration board (has to confirm this yet). i will do that some time next week to see what the procedure is and if we would need a lawyer or not.

Sounds like panic has set in big time on this thread. I think we need to remember its just another dealyed developement thats still 1 whole year off of the scheduled handover. Of course their will be delays but scaremongering investors with ridicolous talks without any proof whatsoever is bad and until evidence is brought to the table people should just accept the fact their investment may not be worth today what they thought it would be.

Sounds like panic has set in big time on this thread. I think we need to remember its just another dealyed developement thats still 1 whole year off of the scheduled handover. Of course their will be delays but scaremongering investors with ridicolous talks without any proof whatsoever is bad and until evidence is brought to the table people should just accept the fact their investment may not be worth today what they thought it would be.

We are just seeking the truth. If you are not an investor butt out. If you are an investor join in.

Has work stopped on this development ?
I see that the banks have pulled the plug on some projects is this one of them?

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4804/images1ii8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This development is funded by Investor Funds. We just have a problem with slow progress.

Made some calls today to RERA (all in Arabic). What i suggest we do is two things:

1. After we agree on the points we need to raise, immediately file an online complaint with RERA as individuals. They have a special form for that, but you need to sign up with the site first. i have not done that yet.

here is the link. the section is called Complaints and is in red at the middle bottom. i was told it will take some time until we hear back from them, few weeks.

http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home.jsp?lang=0

2. RERA has also suggested that i contact the Real Estate Committee at Dubai Court. This does not mean that we will be filing a lawsuit, but it seems that they will act as an arbitration board (has to confirm this yet). i will do that some time next week to see what the procedure is and if we would need a lawyer or not.

thanks. Any dissatisfied investor needs to do this as well

We are just seeking the truth. If you are not an investor butt out. If you are an investor join in.

^^Been an investor from the start, not my first investment in dubai either, muppet so dont appreciate being told to butt out. Maybe I am used to the delays. Its what to expect in a market like Dubai. Maybe you should invest elsewhere because if you are stressed now you are going to have no hair left in a year or three.

We are just seeking the truth. If you are not an investor butt out. If you are an investor join in.

Carefull with the termimology there or they shall be applied to you (as far as this forum is concern). :ohno:

thanks for the info Glover...

ive have registered on the RERA site and opened an Complaint

they only give you these category:

Developer:

1 Developer demanding installment to be paid in their company banking account instate of Escrow Account of the project.
2 Developer failed to open Escrow account of the project.
3 Developer failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERA's NOC.
4 Developer selling off plan property without authorization of RERA.
5 Developer dealing with unregistered agent.
6 Developer practicing development activities without license.
7 Developer canceling the Sale Transaction without the Land Department Approval


Realeste agent

1 Agent provides his client or the other contracting party with misleading information about the property.
2 Agent hand over the deposit cheque to seller prior to transfer date.
3 Agent violated the code of ethics or any of the applicable laws, by Laws in Dubai.
4 Agent made violation regarding the promotion of their off plan property.
5 Agent practicing the brokerage activities without registering with RERA.
6 Person or agent selling properties in bogus project.
7 Agent /company receiving installment or deposit into their banking account.


Dont know which one too choose

^^Been an investor from the start, not my first investment in dubai either, muppet so dont appreciate being told to butt out. Maybe I am used to the delays. Its what to expect in a market like Dubai. Maybe you should invest elsewhere because if you are stressed now you are going to have no hair left in a year or three.

I also have other investments in Dubai - JBR for instance bought from SP so I know all about delays and the Dubai market. There appears to be special circumstances here as no piling done on the hotel yet which is one of the 3 towers they are building and which are integral part of the site. I have many conversations with SP on this issue so I am well informed. I am hoping we will hear something official from them soon but until ......

Beppe,

i would say 3, "failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERA's NOC". this obviously refers to the hotel, which is an integral part of the development and our properties cannot be delivered without it being built!

thanks for the info Glover...

ive have registered on the RERA site and opened an Complaint

they only give you these category:

Developer:

1 Developer demanding installment to be paid in their company banking account instate of Escrow Account of the project.
2 Developer failed to open Escrow account of the project.
3 Developer failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERA's NOC.
4 Developer selling off plan property without authorization of RERA.
5 Developer dealing with unregistered agent.
6 Developer practicing development activities without license.
7 Developer canceling the Sale Transaction without the Land Department Approval


Realeste agent

1 Agent provides his client or the other contracting party with misleading information about the property.
2 Agent hand over the deposit cheque to seller prior to transfer date.
3 Agent violated the code of ethics or any of the applicable laws, by Laws in Dubai.
4 Agent made violation regarding the promotion of their off plan property.
5 Agent practicing the brokerage activities without registering with RERA.
6 Person or agent selling properties in bogus project.
7 Agent /company receiving installment or deposit into their banking account.


Dont know which one too choose


1 Agent provides his client or the other contracting party with misleading information about the property.
2 Agent hand over the deposit cheque to seller prior to transfer date.
3 Agent violated the code of ethics or any of the applicable laws, by Laws in Dubai.
4 Agent made violation regarding the promotion of their off plan property.
5 Agent practicing the brokerage activities without registering with RERA.
6 Person or agent selling properties in bogus project.
7 Agent /company receiving installment or deposit into their banking account.

One of those 3

^^^ yes, those also.

you can only choose one..

then i would go for 3, because i think the real estate agent section is meant here for the secondary sales.

if they have a field for notes, i would explain the situation further there!!

^^We can choose one each or more than on complaint :)

I too spoke to a nice Lady at RERA, she did not hear of them to start with but then.....................She also asked me to write all the details and she promised that I would get a reply. :cheers:

Slowhand you use SP and WELL INFORMED in the same sentence, you are joking of course.

SP are still telling TP investors handover April 09, which is ILL INFORMED and the normal for them.

^^ When April comes they will demand the final installment and then start passing the buck when you ask for your keys.

I can only presume as DS/SP have never had a handover before.

We are just seeking the truth. If you are not an investor butt out. If you are an investor join in.

:applause:Well done slowhand, you managed to break every rule of the forum in 1 sentence:)

:applause:Well done slowhand, you managed to break every rule of the forum in 1 sentence:)

I am beginning to realise the meaning of your underlying message. :ohno: but hey its fun anyway :nuts:, A few low level estate agents, one or two SPs, a few wannabee big shots, a few naive investors and a few chancers like me.

Most of the complaint categories refer to Law No 8 of 2007.
Glover, No 3 covers clause b. in the following Article 17.
SP did commence construction within 6 months…..

Article (17):
A Developer shall be cancelled from the Register in any of the following
events:
a. If he declares bankruptcy.
b. If he does not commence construction within six months of the date
he was granted approval to sell off plan without an acceptable
excuse.
c. If his license is cancelled by the licensing authorities.
d. If he violates any of numbers (2) or (3) or (4) or (5) of article 16 of
this law.
e. If he is in violation of any of the laws and/or by laws regulating the
real estate development activity.


Beppe,

i would say 3, "failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERA's NOC". this obviously refers to the hotel, which is an integral part of the development and our properties cannot be delivered without it being built!

Article (12)
The depositors or their representatives may examine their account records
and request copies and the representatives of the official authorities may
examine the records and obtain copies.

The above article refers to escrow accounts.
Are we "The depositors" or not?
If yes, has any of you ever seen any account statement?

Slowhand you use SP and WELL INFORMED in the same sentence, you are joking of course.

SP are still telling TP investors handover April 09, which is ILL INFORMED and the normal for them.

well informed applies to me about SP's antics. It has taken me 5 months to weigh them up which is really, really embarrassing.

SP are smart from their point of view because
- they are great at marketing
- they recruit and train their staff well in Wilmslow anyway where most of their selling is done
- so many people got carried away pre-credit crunch with buy to let and borrowing cheap money that they were so easy to persuade to buy. Lemmings is a word that springs to mind. Probably includes me
- SP are smart enough with their legal structure to make it difficult to pin them down on a day to day basis and legally
- SP launched many big projects in a small space of time with short timescales for payments before most people realised they would be very, very slow to deliver.

However they will eventually "reap what they sow". :banana:

Article (12)
The depositors or their representatives may examine their account records
and request copies and the representatives of the official authorities may
examine the records and obtain copies.

The above article refers to escrow accounts.
Are we "The depositors" or not?
If yes, has any of you ever seen any account statement?

No but I'd like to see them. Yes, we are depositors. Who do we request them from? I am an accountant and good at adding up.

So I see 1 beds in BC are this week available for 1300psf in gulf news. :cheers: good time to buy in.

You are all doing a great job in devaluing the development.

^^ I saw a 1 bed for sale 900 and odd square feet full sea view for AED2.5Million. DxbPC, is it yours?

Anyway, here is a great snap of the marina taken back in 2004, lets you see what BC was like before they erected the site fence:)

http://xs433.xs.to/xs433/08474/dscf0572lowres622.jpg

our situation is more complex than this. technically, they did, but because no work has been done on the hotel yet, the end result is the same. even if they started work on the residential towers (although at a very slow pace, maybe only to give appearance of compliance with the law), unit owners nevertheless cannot gain hold of their properties unless the hotel is built. legal systems all over the world don't take the law by letter only but also in spirit. don't think dubai will be an exception here.

that's why i think we need legal advice, our situation is more complex.
Most of the complaint categories refer to Law No 8 of 2007.
Glover, No 3 covers clause b. in the following Article 17.
SP did commence construction within 6 months…..

Article (17):
A Developer shall be cancelled from the Register in any of the following
events:
a. If he declares bankruptcy.
b. If he does not commence construction within six months of the date
he was granted approval to sell off plan without an acceptable
excuse.
c. If his license is cancelled by the licensing authorities.
d. If he violates any of numbers (2) or (3) or (4) or (5) of article 16 of
this law.
e. If he is in violation of any of the laws and/or by laws regulating the
real estate development activity.

i contacted 4-5 agents about apartments that look to be bargains, but the answer i got is either "sold" and/or an offer of other apartments, or the agents would not get back to me, even after several tries.

a lot of them are simply "bait and switch", which is illegal in america btw.

not sure if it was serious or not, but i was offered 200k in premium last week, but did not take it because i know i can get more early next year thanks to the 15 LPP.


So I see 1 beds in BC are this week available for 1300psf in gulf news. :cheers: good time to buy in.

You are all doing a great job in devaluing the development.

Hi Steve,
It's not our fault. Sooner or later grim truth would have come out.


So I see 1 beds in BC are this week available for 1300psf in gulf news. :cheers: good time to buy in.

You are all doing a great job in devaluing the development.

i knew it would come too this... so whos in so we can the split cost's ??


our situation is more complex than this. technically, they did, but because no work has been done on the hotel yet, the end result is the same. even if they started work on the residential towers (although at a very slow pace, maybe only to give appearance of compliance with the law), unit owners nevertheless cannot gain hold of their properties unless the hotel is built. legal systems all over the world don't take the law by letter only but also in spirit. don't think dubai will be an exception here.

that's why i think we need legal advice, our situation is more complex.

guys, i received this email from Select Property about law 13 and 1% payment for my BC apartment.

Is everybody paying this registration fees or adopting a wait and see policy?

the email is: ''We wrote to you on the 17th. September with reference to the publication of ‘Law number 13 of 2008’, governing Initial Property Registration for all off plan property sales in Dubai. As you are aware, the introduction of this law impacts every purchaser of property in Dubai and since its publication we have made it a priority to seek clear instructions with the relevant authorities so that we can communicate these to you at the earliest opportunity.

Law No. 13 is a new regulation which states that all off plan property sales must be registered. The law introduces a mandatory system of pre-registration for sales contracts at the emirate's Land Department. Any sale of off plan property in Dubai that is not registered will be legally invalid. The new law is to be applied retrospectively ensuring every property is registered, even those purchased off-plan prior to the law coming into effect.

As we mentioned in our previous letter, in accordance with the Dubai Land Department fee structure, every sale and purchase will be subject to a registration fee of 1% from the buyer and 1% from the seller (for the first registration, the developer is the seller). The Dubai Land Department has now clarified that the fee should be calculated by reference to the total Purchase Price payable under the Lengthy Payment Plan in your contract.

As you will have been aware, the payment of registration fees at the Land Department was scheduled to be made at the time when your property completed. Whilst the introduction of Law 13 brings the timing of this payment forward, it does also bring forward the security offered by registration of your property at the Land Department.

Buyers and Sellers in all off plan developments must comply with the law as soon as possible to ensure that all sales are registered with the Land Department on time.

What you need to do

You are requested to please arrange to pay your 1% proportion of the registration fee now to enable us to complete registration in your favour as soon as possible. Buyers are not required to visit the Land Department in person for registration of the sales. We will be given access to a Land Department system to register all sales in accordance with our records.''





.....

^^I have paid.

As it is for legal title, I would recommend that you too also pay.

yes you should pay this. Deadline is to be registered by end of the year. Very risky to leave it.

i have paid too

^^I have paid.

As it is for legal title, I would recommend that you too also pay.

Think this is sound advice also paid.......

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4804/images1ii8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

so when will this lot deliver then!
can u imagine how much landlords looking to rent here will be out of pocket!
big shame !
i nearly bought a apt in the point@

someone in the know told me that RERA actually have their own inspection teams they send out to the site to check and verify complaints/claims and then decide for themselves!! no need for any expert opinion to present our case to RERA.

Interesting article: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/150155495/1005/rss

If anyone knows the organisers than we should all 'group' together.

^^
Perhaps you could find out by writing to the author of the artice.

I think the forum is at "www.dubaipropertyinvestors.com" but I couldn't enter because it is infected by a virus!

Interesting article: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/150155495/1005/rss

If anyone knows the organisers than we should all 'group' together.

You can e mail to investorslaw13@hotmail.com. I have joined too. They already have over 150 members with a total value of 1billion aed. They are collecting as many people as possible for taking up investors case. There is no virus

Thank you Kuttika - I will do that!

anyone pics of how the construction or lack of it is progressing? Much appreciated.

Today I received the following email from the Dubai Property Investors Group.


Dear Members,

Thank you very much for you support in the last few days, which helped us to generate huge public awareness.

Todays half page in The National, was a big success for our initiative.

We received many emails in the last days, were people are desperate and seeking for help.

In order to take as many concerns as possible in consideration we prepared the Fax Petition which we attach to this email.

As we all know that we cannot get our money out of the projects in which we invested, we want the government to protect our investments and future payment.

Indirectly our suggestion will help us to gain a lot of time and help us to shut down these developers who are not able to perform. Further all cancellations will be on hold.

We would ask you to please print it out and fill in your details along with your signature at the bottom of page two.

Once you have done this would you please fax it to the Dubai Land Department and to the newspapers along with an email to us, so we can keep count on how many faxes have been sent.

Please spread this Fax Petition to all investors you know which are in similar situations like most of us.

We need the support of every individual to be successful, please spent the time to fill out the Petition and fax it !

We heard from several memebers that the Land Department will meet tomorrow and discuss the current situation, so please fax it and we are convinced they will take us serious.

WE COUNT ON YOU !

Regards
Dubai Property Investors






Name: __________________________
Adress: __________________________
Phone: __________________________
Email: __________________________

To
Government of Dubai
Land Department
Real Estate Regulatory Agency
PO Box 1166
Dubai, UAE
Attn: Mr. Marwan Bin Ghalaita
Fax No: + 971 4 222 2251

Dear Mr. Marwan,
Dear newspapers,

I am against the interpretation of law 13 by the Land Department, because it is clearly not an interpretation, it totally changes the context and also adds further legislation to what was the original wording and in so doing it takes away my rights from how Law 13 was written.

Therefore the changes made to Law 13 by the Land Department constitute an amendment and not an interpretation, which we believe are beyond the scope and powers of this Government Department.

This amendment contravenes the UAE Civil Transactions Law, which provides that monetary compensation for damages should be in direct relation to damages incurred. Therefore, according to Article 389 of the UAE Civil Transactions Law, it is left to the discretion of a judge to assess
monetary damages.

The new interpretation of article 11 mandates liquidated damages in favor of developers only, limiting the judge's discretion in assessing the damages, in direct violation of the UAE Civil Transactions Code.

We want the Dubai Government to protect our investment by the following actions:
In order to protect our interest we suggest the following actions:

1. Changing the payment plans for all projects according to construction progress. Not more than 20% shall be paid prior to construction. From 20% onwards the payment plan shall be linked to construction and the next payment shall not be due before finishing the foundations.

2. Audited Statements
Developers can not terminate any contracts or carry on claiming for further installments without and audited escrow account which has to be submitted to the Land Department.

The Land Department shall provide an NOC to these Developers where no irregularities are found on the escrow account.

3. Performance Proof
Developers shall provide an audit of their escrow account and provide proof that they have put 30% of the total project costs as equity in the project.
Developers who can not demonstrate this level of liquidity within a project shall not be entitled to claim further installments or to terminate purchases contracts.

4. Termination of contracts
Termination of a purchases contract shall not be allowed by the developer if the purchaser has already paid 20% of his contractual payment schedule and the foundations are not complete.
In case of cancellation due to a breach of the sales contract by the purchaser the developer must return a minimum of 70% of all the money paid by the purchaser within 30 days after the cancellation.

My personal situation and experience with my developer:
Dubai was and should be in the future a safe investment place and speculative developers who misused the trust account shall be removed from the Dubai market.
I hope that the Dubai Government will take my concerns and suggestions seriously, and will implement our suggestions to bring back the confidence and stability to the Dubai market.
Transparency is the key to a successful Dubai

Kind regards
______________________________________

great post. I'll do this




Today I received the following email from the Dubai Property Investors Group.


Dear Members,

Thank you very much for you support in the last few days, which helped us to generate huge public awareness.

Todays half page in The National, was a big success for our initiative.

We received many emails in the last days, were people are desperate and seeking for help.

In order to take as many concerns as possible in consideration we prepared the Fax Petition which we attach to this email.

As we all know that we cannot get our money out of the projects in which we invested, we want the government to protect our investments and future payment.

Indirectly our suggestion will help us to gain a lot of time and help us to shut down these developers who are not able to perform. Further all cancellations will be on hold.

We would ask you to please print it out and fill in your details along with your signature at the bottom of page two.

Once you have done this would you please fax it to the Dubai Land Department and to the newspapers along with an email to us, so we can keep count on how many faxes have been sent.

Please spread this Fax Petition to all investors you know which are in similar situations like most of us.

We need the support of every individual to be successful, please spent the time to fill out the Petition and fax it !

We heard from several memebers that the Land Department will meet tomorrow and discuss the current situation, so please fax it and we are convinced they will take us serious.

WE COUNT ON YOU !

Regards
Dubai Property Investors






Name: __________________________
Adress: __________________________
Phone: __________________________
Email: __________________________

To
Government of Dubai
Land Department
Real Estate Regulatory Agency
PO Box 1166
Dubai, UAE
Attn: Mr. Marwan Bin Ghalaita
Fax No: + 971 4 222 2251

Dear Mr. Marwan,
Dear newspapers,

I am against the interpretation of law 13 by the Land Department, because it is clearly not an interpretation, it totally changes the context and also adds further legislation to what was the original wording and in so doing it takes away my rights from how Law 13 was written.

Therefore the changes made to Law 13 by the Land Department constitute an amendment and not an interpretation, which we believe are beyond the scope and powers of this Government Department.

This amendment contravenes the UAE Civil Transactions Law, which provides that monetary compensation for damages should be in direct relation to damages incurred. Therefore, according to Article 389 of the UAE Civil Transactions Law, it is left to the discretion of a judge to assess
monetary damages.

The new interpretation of article 11 mandates liquidated damages in favor of developers only, limiting the judge's discretion in assessing the damages, in direct violation of the UAE Civil Transactions Code.

We want the Dubai Government to protect our investment by the following actions:
In order to protect our interest we suggest the following actions:

1. Changing the payment plans for all projects according to construction progress. Not more than 20% shall be paid prior to construction. From 20% onwards the payment plan shall be linked to construction and the next payment shall not be due before finishing the foundations.

2. Audited Statements
Developers can not terminate any contracts or carry on claiming for further installments without and audited escrow account which has to be submitted to the Land Department.

The Land Department shall provide an NOC to these Developers where no irregularities are found on the escrow account.

3. Performance Proof
Developers shall provide an audit of their escrow account and provide proof that they have put 30% of the total project costs as equity in the project.
Developers who can not demonstrate this level of liquidity within a project shall not be entitled to claim further installments or to terminate purchases contracts.

4. Termination of contracts
Termination of a purchases contract shall not be allowed by the developer if the purchaser has already paid 20% of his contractual payment schedule and the foundations are not complete.
In case of cancellation due to a breach of the sales contract by the purchaser the developer must return a minimum of 70% of all the money paid by the purchaser within 30 days after the cancellation.

My personal situation and experience with my developer:
Dubai was and should be in the future a safe investment place and speculative developers who misused the trust account shall be removed from the Dubai market.
I hope that the Dubai Government will take my concerns and suggestions seriously, and will implement our suggestions to bring back the confidence and stability to the Dubai market.
Transparency is the key to a successful Dubai

Kind regards
______________________________________

hello glover
could we have some pictures please. If possible could you take some on working day in dubai to see how workers are on site at times.

hello glover
could we have some pictures please. If possible could you take some on working day in dubai to see how workers are on site at times.

that would be great. I am in Dubai for a couple of days 8 & 9th Dec and will take some as well for the forum.

^^Looking forward to seeing the pics guys!

DELETED

There is no doubt that this is a nice project. Good facilites, great location, and the hotel adds some value. I nearly bought here myself.

I wont be popular saying this but i think that it will be at least 2012 until completion maybe longer. Thats a 4-5 year wait to either sell or rent out.

From a pure investment point of view you would do better to sell now and invest the money in Bank stock in the UK. There are good premiums here now because expectation is still reasonable. As time goes on people will begin to get pissed off with having dead money tied up for 5 years. Compensation is negative in real terms.

Many investors here are British and as recession bites I think people wont be able to leave money sat in the ground and will look to get out. If this creates a lot of sellers what will happen to prices ?

With a completion date of 2012 i think that will be oversupply time for Dubai Marina and there could potential be a blip.crash, bubble burst, call it what you like.

If you have bought here to use yourself to live in, or holiday and are in it for the long term 10 years + then it will be fine.

If you have bought here looking to sell on completion do your sums and think hard as timing and exit strategy is crutial to all investments.

I'll have a bet with anyone that HBOS shares double in value before BC is complete.

Just ploughing through this thread from the beginning but couldnt let this post pass.
I hope no-one followed his advice.:nuts:

Just ploughing through this thread from the beginning but couldnt let this post pass.
I hope no-one followed his advice.:nuts:

Then give us your estimation and advice!

Then give us your estimation and advice!

Dont invest in HBOS.

Wondered what everyone thought of the communication from SP regarding revised construction dates.
Good to here something concrete that may stop all the speculation. My only concern is there was no mention on revised payments in line with revised construction. I would have thought this should be the case and will be contacting them on Monday to find out.
Anyone any thoughts on this?

There is no doubt that this is a nice project. Good facilites, great location, and the hotel adds some value. I nearly bought here myself.

I wont be popular saying this but i think that it will be at least 2012 until completion maybe longer. Thats a 4-5 year wait to either sell or rent out.

From a pure investment point of view you would do better to sell now and invest the money in Bank stock in the UK. There are good premiums here now because expectation is still reasonable. As time goes on people will begin to get pissed off with having dead money tied up for 5 years. Compensation is negative in real terms.

Many investors here are British and as recession bites I think people wont be able to leave money sat in the ground and will look to get out. If this creates a lot of sellers what will happen to prices ?

With a completion date of 2012 i think that will be oversupply time for Dubai Marina and there could potential be a blip.crash, bubble burst, call it what you like.

If you have bought here to use yourself to live in, or holiday and are in it for the long term 10 years + then it will be fine.

If you have bought here looking to sell on completion do your sums and think hard as timing and exit strategy is crutial to all investments.

I'll have a bet with anyone that HBOS shares double in value before BC is complete.

Just ploughing through this thread from the beginning but couldnt let this post pass.
I hope no-one followed his advice.:nuts:

Headbanger,

Everything i said in that post has been spot on except one point (so far).

1- Bay Central wont be complete until at least 2012. So much so that investors in this project are complaining to RERA about lengthy delays.

2- From a pure investment point of view Major UK Bank shares will return 100% before 2013 (handover of this project). This is the bit that hasn't happened (yet).

3- There were good premiums when i wrote that post as i suggested so selling would have been a good option at the time as you could have got 2000 psf easily. I have been offered units in this project for as little as 1100 psf recently which proves my point that investors are starting to get cold feet and cutting their losses as i predicted. Many distressed sales are starting to appear at BC now and this will only get worse, dragging prices down further.

4- Another reason people are looking to offload this poor investment is that many investors are UK based and whilst in reccession and having to convert Sterling to Dollars/Dirhams will be pouring a lot of money into a big hole for a long time with no return.

Finaly i am still confident HBOS shares will return 100% before 2013, even more so now that the UK treasury has underwritten the investment and the value of the loan notes indicate a 3 year timeframe to make the target yield.

Perhaps you would be so kind to point out where i have got it wrong ?

Wondered what everyone thought of the communication from SP regarding revised construction dates.
Good to here something concrete that may stop all the speculation. My only concern is there was no mention on revised payments in line with revised construction. I would have thought this should be the case and will be contacting them on Monday to find out.
Anyone any thoughts on this?

i agree with you . SP have cleverly not mentioned revised payment plans.since evryone on Short payment plan would have made the dc payment or will be in procee of doing so.in effect people on SPP would have paid 70% by december 08.there isno way sp will want to return that money and arrange revised payment plan. I feel tehy should delay the next payment till march 2010. they should also come to some arrangement with people on LTPP. i will await dxbpcanswer when you have spoken to SP on monday.

dxbgo:ohno:

I hear rumours DS/SP are in serious trouble - hence their recent promotional efforts (i.e. 'introduce a friend' and full page ads in gulf news)

i agree with you . SP have cleverly not mentioned revised payment plans.since evryone on Short payment plan would have made the dc payment or will be in procee of doing so.in effect people on SPP would have paid 70% by december 08.there isno way sp will want to return that money and arrange revised payment plan. I feel tehy should delay the next payment till march 2010. they should also come to some arrangement with people on LTPP. i will await dxbpcanswer when you have spoken to SP on monday.

dxbgo:ohno:

in the the same boat hope they delay payments would be great in the current climate in the uk

Have SP given revised construction dates? I haven't received anything yet. Would someone be so kind as to post the details here? Thanks in advance.

Yes I recieved my letter this morning, at last some honesty regarding completion dates. Regarding payments, it seems reasonable to expect that if SP are going to take longer to complete the project then they should reschedule the payments inline with the new construction timetable.

A few pages back on this forum it was suggested that we form a representative group that communicates regularly with SP regarding the build progress and more technical issues. Is there any interest? to make this happen we would need some of more technically capable members to participate. I still think our best approach is to work closely with SP to get this project completed inline with the new timetable. At least our funds are safe, due to the escrow account.

Rgds

I have spoken with my account manager at SP this afternoon and they have confirmed that they are in the process of sorting out a rescheduling of payment plans to take into account the delay. It will probably be several weeks before they have this worked out.

i agree with you . SP have cleverly not mentioned revised payment plans.since evryone on Short payment plan would have made the dc payment or will be in procee of doing so.in effect people on SPP would have paid 70% by december 08.there isno way sp will want to return that money and arrange revised payment plan. I feel tehy should delay the next payment till march 2010. they should also come to some arrangement with people on LTPP. i will await dxbpcanswer when you have spoken to SP on monday.

dxbgo:ohno:

I hear rumours DS/SP are in serious trouble - hence their recent promotional efforts (i.e. 'introduce a friend' and full page ads in gulf news)

I thought they have sold out all of the developments apart from RAK and the World. They must be resales?

Thanks for the speedy responses, what is the revised completion date?

Wondered what everyone thought of the communication from SP regarding revised construction dates.
Good to here something concrete that may stop all the speculation. My only concern is there was no mention on revised payments in line with revised construction. I would have thought this should be the case and will be contacting them on Monday to find out.
Anyone any thoughts on this?

What letter/Comms?

What did it say?

i agree with you . SP have cleverly not mentioned revised payment plans.since evryone on Short payment plan would have made the dc payment or will be in procee of doing so.in effect people on SPP would have paid 70% by december 08.there isno way sp will want to return that money and arrange revised payment plan. I feel tehy should delay the next payment till march 2010. they should also come to some arrangement with people on LTPP. i will await dxbpcanswer when you have spoken to SP on monday.

dxbgo:ohno:

OMG! I cannot believe what I am reading here... Some people paid 70% of the purchase price, when there are no foundations's been built!!! :ohno:

I was reading on other forums that investors refuse to pay after 20% payment if there is no construction started!

There are so many of you on this forum. Why don't you do something about it? Go to the press / media / radio? Refuse to pay a penny more as a group? Make a protest outside SP offices in the UK?

How can you carry on paying them in the current credit crunch?

Big companies like Woolworths, MFI, etc are going into administration... Where is the guarantee that SP won't get bust and will ever finish this project?

In summary the communication stated that there is a delay of one full year due to changes in various laws etc in Dubai.
Examples...
process for certifiction takes longer due to recent accidents in marina
new regulations on "green" issues resulting in new design of mechanical and electrical aspects of building
fire fighting and fire alarm systems revised as a result of accidents in marina highlighted potential problems
All issues and been submitted for approval and have been accepted.

New Milestones AGREED WITH DCE - Basically they say it is anticipated that
Structure complete by dec 2009
steel structure on top of buildings complete by march 2010
external cladding, temp power, basement and access by june 2010
owner occupation will commence
level 1 to 13 by 1st oct 2010
level 15 to 37 by 1st nov 2010
remainder and villas by 1st dec 2010
overall project completion by 31st dec 2010

Letter is full page long this is just a summary of main points.
As stated in earlier post payment schedules are being revised also and we will be informed in several weeks



Have SP given revised construction dates? I haven't received anything yet. Would someone be so kind as to post the details here? Thanks in advance.

dec 2010


Thanks for the speedy responses, what is the revised completion date?

Thanks DxbPC.

select have been clever waited for everyone to pay there dec payment and then anounced the delay, people on the standard plan only have one payment left before there completion payment..

one other issue now that the completion date has changed too dec 10, so if there is a delay after this is compansation paid 1 year from dec 09 or dec 10?

Dec 2010 - I can have a bet with anyone that there is no way that 122 floors (36 + 36 + 50) will be finished by 31 Dec 2010 and be ready for moving in!

Torch has 84 floors and they have been building it for 3 years so far and still have not even finished building the full structure!

My bet is for 31 Dec 2013...

OMG! I cannot believe what I am reading here... Some people paid 70% of the purchase price, when there are no foundations's been built!!! :ohno:

I was reading on other forums that investors refuse to pay after 20% payment if there is no construction started!

There are so many of you on this forum. Why don't you do something about it? Go to the press / media / radio? Refuse to pay a penny more as a group? Make a protest outside SP offices in the UK?

How can you carry on paying them in the current credit crunch?

Big companies like Woolworths, MFI, etc are going into administration... Where is the guarantee that SP won't get bust and will ever finish this project?

Mine is on SPP and i have paid 50% total. Not aware of anyone having paid 70% although not sure. As stated Payment schedules are being looked at to take into account new build milestones.

At the risk of upsetting all the die hard forummers i think this has been handled very professionally by SP and i am happy they have communicated to us so early. Sorry Glover and CO. and no i don't work for SP or any partner firm. I am an end user and investor the same as ebryone else wit a vested interest.

Also i am not a 1st timer and have bought many times in Dubai and this is the first time i have been informed of a delay so early on. Thats not to say that things still couldn't go wrong...of course they could...but thats life.

DxbPC - you are happy to be informed so early on of a delay? What?

There is at least 2 year delay and as correctly pointed out by Beppe, they have waited until 29 Nov 08 to tell you about the delay!!!

I personally feel that they should sack all their salespeople as no one will buy their Royal Gulf project in RAK and The World in the current financial climate, and they should concentrate all their efforts on finishing the already sold projects! :cheers:

Compensation as per contract so if they run past new completion date we are immediately on compensstion


select have been clever waited for everyone to pay there dec payment and then anounced the delay, people on the standard plan only have one payment left before there completion payment..

one other issue now that the completion date has changed too dec 10, so if there is a delay after this is compansation paid 1 year from dec 09 or dec 10?

DxbPC - you are happy to be informed so early on of a delay? What?

There is at least 2 year delay and as correctly pointed out by Beppe, they have waited until 29 Nov 08 to tell you about the delay!!!

I personally feel that they should sack all their salespeople as no one will buy their Royal Gulf project in RAK and The World in the current financial climate, and they should concentrate all their efforts on finishing the already sold projects! :cheers:

Its an off plan project and delays happen. I bought into BC late on so it is early notification for me. This announcement allows me to forward plan. I do agree with your point that they should focus on current projects and stop selling new ones. Not so sure about sacking sales staff...they tell you what they are told to. Not their fault!

Just got my letter from Select.

I guess there is a strong case for all outstanding payments to be delayed by one year to match the delay of the construction. I think that is a fair way to handle remaining payments. I wonder whether RERA would have any guidelines for this situation - anyone have any other thoughts?

My fear is that they ask for more money to cover the "complete redesign of the mechanical and electrical aspects of the buildings" or for any other changes that are mentioned in their letter.

Away from all the childish and negative talk, this will be one of many delays on this project. Similar to what happened with the Torch, it took us a long time to get them to recognise that they can't deliver it for May/June 08 and the date was revised to September 09, no chance that this will be achieved in the same way that BC will not be completed prior 2012. I wish it was different but there is no point pretending otherwise to make myself feel better.

Every one is entitled to their own theory / opinion of course and the above is just my own. Have a great weekend everyone. :cheers: