SP have formally announced a delay which is better than no annoucement. There are no signs the project is not going ahead or being suspended or in trouble. All of this is positive. They told me a couple of weeks ago an annoucement was imminent and they have followed through. :)

Personally I would be happy with the new completion date if they make it. Compared with progress on Torch the new completion date still looks ambitious. I think it would be helpful for us to have a more detailed list of milestones than that contained in the letter so we can better judge what is possible and also to compare actual progress in the coming months on a month by month basis. Detail on the hotel would be very reassuring as there appears to be no progress whatsoever so far on the hotel.

I am on the SPP and have now paid 70% with the Dec 1st payment. I think the payment of another 20% scheduled for May 09 should be posponed for 12months. Similar adjustments to LPP should be made.

The letter from SP is a step towards restablishing goodwill. SP now need go further and give us a more detailed construction timescale and reschedule the remaining payments.

Slowhand99

i think dec 10 could be reached, if more workforce is introduced onsite..

lets see if the shell is done by dec 09 like they stated in the letter

Guys, have any of you actually watched and analysed how quickly the towers are ACTUALLY built in Dubai Marina?

I have... I watched a number of towers going up in Dubai and I can tell you - the quickest speed at which 4 floors can be build is 1 month!

Therefore if you work out: 50 floors : 4 floors = 12.5 months as a bear minimum!

You also have to take into account that there is a BIG podium - 4-5 storey high, with swimming pools, facilities, ect? The construction of a podium along can take 6 months at least...

Then for cladding and all the inside finishings on a 36 storey tower, you have to allow a minimum of 12 months...(however, I would allow 18 months to be realistic).

Therefore the earliest you will get the keys (assuming SP will start building immediately), will be in early 2012 and this is a very OPTIMISTIC prediction.

My pessimistic prediction - sometime in 2013.

I thought they have sold out all of the developments apart from RAK and the World. They must be resales?

Correct, some with resalers must be struggling with payments I would think - but at 1400 aed psf depending on when they bought and whether they are repatriaiting into £,s is pretty damn good.

Stay in there guys in 2 years time it'll all be history

i think dec 10 could be reached, if more workforce is introduced onsite..

lets see if the shell is done by dec 09 like they stated in the letter

Dec2011 finish more likely

Dec2011 finish more likely

so if dec 2011 is date how much compensation can we expect if any for the year...........

so if dec 2011 is date how much compensation can we expect if any for the year...........
Dont thnk I have any in my contract ? Slipped uo there

Guys, have any of you actually watched and analysed how quickly the towers are ACTUALLY built in Dubai Marina?

I have... I watched a number of towers going up in Dubai and I can tell you - the quickest speed at which 4 floors can be build is 1 month!

Therefore if you work out: 50 floors : 4 floors = 12.5 months as a bear minimum!

You also have to take into account that there is a BIG podium - 4-5 storey high, with swimming pools, facilities, ect? The construction of a podium along can take 6 months at least...

Then for cladding and all the inside finishings on a 36 storey tower, you have to allow a minimum of 12 months...(however, I would allow 18 months to be realistic).

Therefore the earliest you will get the keys (assuming SP will start building immediately), will be in early 2012 and this is a very OPTIMISTIC prediction.

My pessimistic prediction - sometime in 2013.

I think SP need to state in more detail how they will acheive the new completion date of Dec10.

so if dec 2011 is date how much compensation can we expect if any for the year...........

compensation is paid for 12 months only (ie not ongoing to final completion if this is later than Dec 2011) for delays beyond Dec2010 based on around 5 to 5.5% of the total funds you have paid by Dec2010. Total funds will be 90% of purchase price for those on SPP and a lesser % for those on LPP providing you have kept up the payments.

:ohno: Compensation limited to only 12 months. :badnews:


How about a nice chart update, must be due another one now surely.

Don't be so sure that your funds are safe!
NOBODY has EVER seen an Escrow Account Bank Statement.


Yes I recieved my letter this morning, at last some honesty regarding completion dates. Regarding payments, it seems reasonable to expect that if SP are going to take longer to complete the project then they should reschedule the payments inline with the new construction timetable.

A few pages back on this forum it was suggested that we form a representative group that communicates regularly with SP regarding the build progress and more technical issues. Is there any interest? to make this happen we would need some of more technically capable members to participate. I still think our best approach is to work closely with SP to get this project completed inline with the new timetable. At least our funds are safe, due to the escrow account.

Rgds

we should all ask for our escrow accounts statement to date

Some developers are reporting up to 40% of buyers falling behind on their payments ... SP is particularly vulnerable if this volume of customers default. The apartments they are advertising are probably mainly repossessed and so they need to shift them urgently.

I don't think they are repossessions, just SP making profits from those who are scared. Why would customers start defaulting now before the original completion date. I doubt if buyers are workers at woolworths or MFI etc. and everyone has more money in their pockets now that interest rates have dropped so much and their existing mortage payments have been slashed.

With respect Steve:

1/ Defaults didn't just start happening, it is a snowball effect and will have started back in the Spring/early summer way before any relief brought by interest rates (which only help a percentage of the market who happen to be on variable rates in the UK).
2/ Many, many, many people buy in Dubai with no intention to pay the payment plan until competition ... intending to sell on at a profit once progress is made. When these people can't sell as quickly as they expected, they default.
3/ If you think SP have deep pockets and are buying back the volume of properties they are advertising then why haven't they started building BC, etc.?
4/ We are in a credit crunch and SP were the only developer giving non-status mortgages to customers ... guess what that means! Sub-prime buyers (illustrated by the behavior of many SP investors in this forum). Its exactly this type of lending that got the US and UK into so much trouble.
5/ Exchange rates have made repayments 25-30% more expensive than they were a year ago & cost of living has gone up everywhere significantly. Payments are therefore significantly less affordable.
6/ Progress on all SP developments is significantly delayed, making re-selling quickly harder - especially now.

So if you think that SP's investors are all well-off people who pre-bought USD to cover their obligations and that there are no speculators who got lured in by the easy credit and thought they'd always be able to sell fast if needed, then the advertised apartments will not be repossessions ;)

If they can sell these apartments and they don't get a lot of additional ones, everything will be fine.

^^ Ok some valid points there apart from point 3/ they do not need deep pockets, just sell the unit for the seller, take the money and pay off the seller at the lower rate and keep the profit. A nice little business.

Point 4&5 are spot on

i have not checked my PO box for few days, what did SP say about the hotel!

i hava studio in BC an 1 bedder in TP. I did not want sell aND wil wate until finis but SP call each 3 daze to ask if i sel. i think thay not busy and look job staf make incom for sp.

Tractor,

You are bang on the money with your last post.

Dubai seems to be full of Wannabe property tycoons many of whom frequent this forum.

This game is a marathon not a sprint. If you have ever run a marathon you will be familiar with the phrase " hitting the wall". In terms of property investment we are now "hitting the wall". The weak will fold and wither, and the strong, well prepared, and fittest will survive. We all have different pain thresholds, acording to how we have prepared for the event.

See you at the finnish line with a Mars bar and a bacofoil jacket. :)

I agree with tractor and high times. Why was Tractor's original post removed? With all the shit you allow on here and you take a post off that is 100% correct. Familiar pattern here.

Tractor,

You are bang on the money with your last post.

"Dubai seems to be full of Wannabe property tycoons many of whom frequent this forum.

This game is a marathon not a sprint. If you have ever run a marathon you will be familiar with the phrase " hitting the wall". In terms of property investment we are now "hitting the wall". The weak will fold and wither, and the strong, well prepared, and fittest will survive. We all have different pain thresholds, acording to how we have prepared for the event.

See you at the finnish line with a Mars bar and a bacofoil jacket." :)

The sad thing is a lot of people on this forum are the very ones that could put us all under. They used the money they had to buy 3 and 4 apartments on lpp hoping for a big killing. Now they can't afford payments, can't sell and are trying to start movements to take on SP. If everyone had done their figures correctly and played the long game we would have nothing to worry about. However that is not the case and all the "property tycoons" are defaulting and panicking. I will be at the finish line with Tractor and High Times and hope the amateurs don't pull me down before i get there. If i am wrong and everyone plays the game we will have nothing to worry about. Lets see how many movements start because of defaulters.

Tractor - repost your comments they were bang on!

In summary the communication stated that there is a delay of one full year due to changes in various laws etc in Dubai.
Examples...
process for certifiction takes longer due to recent accidents in marina:lol:
new regulations on "green" issues resulting in new design of mechanical and electrical aspects of building
fire fighting and fire alarm systems revised as a result of accidents in marina highlighted potential problems
All issues and been submitted for approval and have been accepted.

New Milestones AGREED WITH DCE - Basically they say it is anticipated that
Structure complete by dec 2009
steel structure on top of buildings complete by march 2010
external cladding, temp power, basement and access by june 2010
owner occupation will commence
level 1 to 13 by 1st oct 2010
level 15 to 37 by 1st nov 2010
remainder and villas by 1st dec 2010
overall project completion by 31st dec 2010

Letter is full page long this is just a summary of main points.
As stated in earlier post payment schedules are being revised also and we will be informed in several weeks



The reason this project is so late has nothing to do with recent accidents in the marina.

Cayan were the developer who experienced the accident so you would assume that the authorities would slow them down to scrutinise everything they intended to do. However Silverene started 6 months behind BC and yet they are close to pouring the pile cap rafts.

Let me just repeat, Silverene started 6 months later and are already further ahead. They will have obtained the approvals, done the designs and all of the other BS that SP are hiding behind.

The latest release of completion dates are an insult to most peoples intelligence. All of the defenses they are quoting for delays are a preamble to a force majeure claim hence no compensation.

Tractor,

You are bang on the money with your last post.

Dubai seems to be full of Wannabe property tycoons many of whom frequent this forum.

This game is a marathon not a sprint. If you have ever run a marathon you will be familiar with the phrase " hitting the wall". In terms of property investment we are now "hitting the wall". The weak will fold and wither, and the strong, well prepared, and fittest will survive. We all have different pain thresholds, acording to how we have prepared for the event.

See you at the finnish line with a Mars bar and a bacofoil jacket. :)

You can see that "flippers" without adequate finance will be in a difficult spot right now especially because they probably haven't bought dirhams forward when US$ was around 2 to £.

Many buying on LPP would have had to find at least £25,000? by now I imagine so maybe they are not that sub-prime as a previous post suggests. There is a lot to lose if you default.

If owners default then SP have cheap units to resell. If SP is just acting for the investor who wants to sell then they are just making a margin. Either way SP are not in that bad a place.

There will be a disproportionate numbers of flippers on this forum probably. 95% of owners won't use this forum probably.

I am not a flipper but one of those investors in it for the long haul ie a marathon a HT suggests. I am currently getting a 20% return pa on my JBR investment and having no difficulty finding long term tenants who pay upfront. (There was a substantial delay with JBR as well.) I am not bragging but just stating what sort of return you can get over time. Although it is looking like a long, long way off I expect to get a similar result with BC. BC is clearly in a fantastic location and is not expensive. (Many investors will have bought for their own use and not to rent out or flip anyway.) I just wish SP would hurry up and make better progress. As yet I am not convinced by the achievability of the new deadline and will be seeking further reassurance.

I think we all know that some on this forum work for SP, some work for Dubai estate agents and some aren't investors but make out they are. However it is always useful to read a variety of views however biased these are.

The reason this project is so late has nothing to do with recent accidents in the marina.

Cayan were the developer who experienced the accident so you would assume that the authorities would slow them down to scrutinise everything they intended to do. However Silverene started 6 months behind BC and yet they are close to pouring the pile cap rafts.

Let me just repeat, Silverene started 6 months later and are already further ahead. They will have obtained the approvals, done the designs and all of the other BS that SP are hiding behind.

The latest release of completion dates are an insult to most peoples intelligence. All of the defenses they are quoting for delays are a preamble to a force majeure claim hence no compensation.

Interesting points made by TB which we should put to SP.

i have not checked my PO box for few days, what did SP say about the hotel!

No comment on hotel in letter. Clearly this is an issue as it appears that no progress at all has been made on the hotel. This needs taking up with SP. :wallbash:

I hear rumours DS/SP are in serious trouble - hence their recent promotional efforts (i.e. 'introduce a friend' and full page ads in gulf news)

There will be quite a few UK investors particularly flippers without adequate finance who will be keen to sell in current circumstances especially with exchange rates at current levels. UK investors are probably willing to take less because of the favourable exchange rate. Selling for the original purchase price ofaround 1,350 dirhams per sqft will make them 20% to 25% and at around 1,000 dirhams per sq ft they break even. Not bad in the circumstances. Many will have approached SP to sell on their behalf at least as an option. Hence the reason for the ad.

Is there anything else to support the rumours?

I agree with tractor and high times. Why was Tractor's original post removed? With all the shit you allow on here and you take a post off that is 100% correct. Familiar pattern here.



The sad thing is a lot of people on this forum are the very ones that could put us all under. They used the money they had to buy 3 and 4 apartments on lpp hoping for a big killing. Now they can't afford payments, can't sell and are trying to start movements to take on SP. If everyone had done their figures correctly and played the long game we would have nothing to worry about. However that is not the case and all the "property tycoons" are defaulting and panicking. I will be at the finish line with Tractor and High Times and hope the amateurs don't pull me down before i get there. If i am wrong and everyone plays the game we will have nothing to worry about. Lets see how many movements start because of defaulters.

Tractor - repost your comments they were bang on!

As a fellow investor I understand your point of view. However very few Dubai or BC investors use this forum. The much greater drag on sentiment is adverse comments in UK press and presumably other countries. These have been frequent in the last couple of weeks. In today's UK Sunday Times for instance they say
- Palm investors have lost 40% in last few weeks
- Dubai as an Emirate is over borrowed and is in negotiations with Abu Dhabi for a loan or bail out (but this will be forthcoming)
- Palm Deira will be put on hold.

Times are tougher everywhere now including Dubai. However I believe the outlook for Dubai is much better than most other developed economies and this is the reason why I am keeping part of my investments in property and in Dubai.

Dec 2010 - I can have a bet with anyone that there is no way that 122 floors (36 + 36 + 50) will be finished by 31 Dec 2010 and be ready for moving in!

Torch has 84 floors and they have been building it for 3 years so far and still have not even finished building the full structure!

My bet is for 31 Dec 2013...

Presumably they will build the 3 towers together so they have 50 floors to build not 122.

The much greater drag on sentiment is adverse comments in UK press and presumably other countries. These have been frequent in the last couple of weeks. In today's UK Sunday Times for instance they say
- Palm investors have lost 40% in last few weeks
- Dubai as an Emirate is over borrowed and is in negotiations with Abu Dhabi for a loan or bail out (but this will be forthcoming)
- Palm Deira will be put on hold.



Same story was in the Times through the week. They must be struggling for content.

My view...eventually!

http://i36.tinypic.com/2wg96as.jpg

UK investors are probably willing to take less because of the favourable exchange rate. Selling for the original purchase price ofaround 1,350 dirhams per sqft will make them 20% to 25% and at around 1,000 dirhams per sq ft they break even. Not bad in the circumstances. Many will have approached SP to sell on their behalf at least as an option. Hence the reason for the ad.

If anyone is thinking of selling at slowhands rates i will buy. Quite happy to offer anyone the original buying price [in dirhams] and they will benefit from excahnge rates. contact me @ ...

No comment on hotel in letter. Clearly this is an issue as it appears that no progress at all has been made on the hotel. This needs taking up with SP. :wallbash:

Spoke to someone at SP and they confirm all is ok with hotel. I have emailed all the questions that need answered and they will reply by email tomorrow.

Same story was in the Times through the week. They must be struggling for content.

The times, like the sun, is only good for one thing :toilet:

The reason this project is so late has nothing to do with recent accidents in the marina.

Cayan were the developer who experienced the accident so you would assume that the authorities would slow them down to scrutinise everything they intended to do. However Silverene started 6 months behind BC and yet they are close to pouring the pile cap rafts.

Let me just repeat, Silverene started 6 months later and are already further ahead. They will have obtained the approvals, done the designs and all of the other BS that SP are hiding behind.

The latest release of completion dates are an insult to most peoples intelligence. All of the defenses they are quoting for delays are a preamble to a force majeure claim hence no compensation.

Beef up fire safety
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/508364-dubai-beefs-up-fire-safety-regulations

Dubai Green issue
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/press_releases/detail/32675

^^ I don't get your point, why do they have to stop construction while they scratch their heads over these issues. It's a level playing field and everyone under construction has to deal with them.

Spoke to someone at SP and they confirm all is ok with hotel. I have emailed all the questions that need answered and they will reply by email tomorrow.

please post their replies

The times, like the sun, is only good for one thing :toilet:

but it will affect perceptions about Dubai and therefore future demand for property. Being an estate agent you'll know this already

^^ I don't get your point, why do they have to stop construction while they scratch their heads over these issues. It's a level playing field and everyone under construction has to deal with them.

you made a good point about silverene. They started 6 months after BC and yet are now well ahead

I am not an estate agent :bash:

Most of this stuff is nonsense especially sub prime comments. Most People have put down in excess of 30%...hardly sub prime!
Also this is the most negative forum in ssc. Why? Cayan are late with all projects, Walls collapse, no power to buildings and 3 storey bridges are built in front of their buildings and no conspiracy theories on their forums. SP sent a letter explainging reasons for delay and everyone is jumping on the conspiracy stuff again. What is the problem? Is there something I don't know about?


With respect Steve:

1/ Defaults didn't just start happening, it is a snowball effect and will have started back in the Spring/early summer way before any relief brought by interest rates (which only help a percentage of the market who happen to be on variable rates in the UK).
2/ Many, many, many people buy in Dubai with no intention to pay the payment plan until competition ... intending to sell on at a profit once progress is made. When these people can't sell as quickly as they expected, they default.
3/ If you think SP have deep pockets and are buying back the volume of properties they are advertising then why haven't they started building BC, etc.?
4/ We are in a credit crunch and SP were the only developer giving non-status mortgages to customers ... guess what that means! Sub-prime buyers (illustrated by the behavior of many SP investors in this forum). Its exactly this type of lending that got the US and UK into so much trouble.
5/ Exchange rates have made repayments 25-30% more expensive than they were a year ago & cost of living has gone up everywhere significantly. Payments are therefore significantly less affordable.
6/ Progress on all SP developments is significantly delayed, making re-selling quickly harder - especially now.

So if you think that SP's investors are all well-off people who pre-bought USD to cover their obligations and that there are no speculators who got lured in by the easy credit and thought they'd always be able to sell fast if needed, then the advertised apartments will not be repossessions ;)

If they can sell these apartments and they don't get a lot of additional ones, everything will be fine.

i will be staying in RAK for the next 3 months begining today, so sorry guys there will be no pictures from me. however, i am looking at the site now from my living room, and if anything, there are less workers on site today than 2-3 months ago. the site is usually clear of the few workers working there by 5 pm or so.

since Select has not addressed the hotel issue and have ignored it completly in its communications, i am leaning strongly toward filing an online complaint with RERA in the next few days. Will take it a level higher to the Real Estate Committee at Dubai courts if RERA does nothing.

Most of this stuff is nonsense especially sub prime comments. Most People have put down in excess of 30%...hardly sub prime!
Also this is the most negative forum in ssc. Why? Cayan are late with all projects, Walls collapse, no power to buildings and 3 storey bridges are built in front of their buildings and no conspiracy theories on their forums. SP sent a letter explainging reasons for delay and everyone is jumping on the conspiracy stuff again. What is the problem? Is there something I don't know about?

i completely agree with dxbpc. too many negative comments on this forum. it is not suprime lending. most people have paid over 30% even on LTPP.these negative comments can have cause prices for resale to go down.All building projetcs get delayed.UK is the same. So everyone needs to start thinking positively and give some positive feedback on this forum.
:cheers:

http://i37.tinypic.com/msly6a.jpg

^^
It never a fault of their own it seems ....new fire regulations ...lol

The vast majority of developments in Dubai never make their proposed completion date but at least some investors see some work being carried out on their projects. There is some reassurance in your investment when u see it rise.

SP making an announcement that the development would be delayed for a further year is just to twist investors to carry on paying. Absolutely bollocks suggesting BC would be ready in two years. Still very few resources on site and only up till 5pm. Definitely something has to change in the amount of resources allocated to this development.

This is a pre cursor for a Force Majeure claim.

All of the reasons stated are outside of the control of both SP and DCE.

Most of this stuff is nonsense especially sub prime comments. Most People have put down in excess of 30%...hardly sub prime!
Also this is the most negative forum in ssc. Why? Cayan are late with all projects, Walls collapse, no power to buildings and 3 storey bridges are built in front of their buildings and no conspiracy theories on their forums. SP sent a letter explainging reasons for delay and everyone is jumping on the conspiracy stuff again. What is the problem? Is there something I don't know about?

I can see you are "the glass is half full rather than half empty" type of guy but I think you should state for balance that you have very recently or are still looking to sell BC properties. As a fellow investor I also want to think things will turn out well but there is cause for concern with SP's track record on delivery and now we have more difficult conditions upon us.

This is a pre cursor for a Force Majeure claim.

All of the reasons stated are outside of the control of both SP and DCE.

So the problems caused by Cayan at Infinity will be used as force majeure by Select :ohno:

So the problems caused by Cayan at Infinity will be used as force majeure by Select :ohno:

No Steve,

Select may be preparing to use Force Majeure in the following way.

"I am writing to inform you that unfortunately the anticipated completion date for Bay Central has been moved to 31st December 2010. We appreciate that this is dissapointing news, but the delay is a result of a number of new regulatory requirements which our construction partner DCE must adhere to"

The key here is that SP are deflecting the balme to DCE and then in turn regulatory issues.

Just my cynical opinion, I may well be wrong.

I assume there will be no changes to the dates for payment(s)?? :bash:

Albeit they have now made an official announcement for the delayed completion date- which we knew all along.

I assume there will be no changes to the dates for payment(s)?? :bash:

Albeit they have now made an official announcement for the delayed completion date- which we knew all along.

i am hoping they will postpone payments date at least for 12 months for both LTPP and SPP.
dxbpc was going to find out.
:lol:

^^They never postponed payments on The Point in fact got quiet aggressive when it was mentioned.

i am hoping they will postpone payments date at least for 12 months for both LTPP and SPP.
dxbpc was going to find out.
:lol:

dxbpc has been banned for offering to buy on the forum

please can he be reinstated. he is sorry. his previous post was knee jerk reaction to my post on low ball park figures for BC apartments.

I rang Russell this morning and asked for a meeting. He immediately agreed and I met with him for 45 mins or so this afternoon at their offices in Wilmslow. I had previously sent him various recent extracts from the forum.

I am buying two one bedders in Central Tower on the SPP. I have just made the Dec 08 payments and so have paid 70% of the total cost. I plan to retire when I can start drawing rental income from these apartments. Naturally I am keen to monitor my investment especially time to complete.

He was relaxed and encouraged me to ask questions.

He has an engineering degree and a sales background. He has been with SP four years or so two of which were in Dubai. Although in sales he worked alongside project managers in Dubai and has gained a fair amount of practical knowledge about constucting towers in Dubai.

He was appointed Director of After Sales SP in Aug 08.

He acknowledged progress was slow and SP had suffered delays with foundations (but not rest) on all their projects. However he said once the foundations had been complete constructing the towers should be quick in comparison.

I asked him to justify how the new completion date is DEC 2010 when Torch is taking longer than this date implies for the time to build the BC towers and he put forward the following points
- the Torch is 80+ floors, the largest tower in BC ie central tower is forty odd floors. The footprint of Torch is much larger than a tower in BC. Torch has 12 two bedders on each floor (or the equivalent in other configs on some floors) whereas Central BC tower has 8 one bedders on each floor and West BC has 12 studios on each floor or the equivalent thereof
- when asked about no progress on hotel he said providing all the outer work had been done on the hotel then the two residential towers could be released while the hotel is fitted out
- as they were building the top portion of each tower, the middle section can be clad and the bottom section can be fitted out inside all at the same time thus speeding up progress.

He asked me to look at progress on Park Island which has 4 towers and is being built by DCE. I haven't done this yet.

Some other points
- the two residential towers are sold out. There are a fair number of buyers who have bought several apartments. They sold 320 apartments in West Tower and 380 in Central Tower. There are still 2 or 3 villas for sale but these were released much later
- up until Sep/Oct time they have had only 2/3 people say they can't complete the payments. These units have been resold quite quickly
- probably more may arise out around the Dec payment but probably not that many
- EMAAR are the trustees of the Escrow accounts on BC which is comforting
- SP are planning to start to pay out compensation on The Point and Torch which they would like to avoid on BC
- BC is in the best location in the marina and I agree

I didn't ask him about rescheduling the remaining payments because this is not a big issue for me. I am more concerned about timescales.

All the above is my assessment of the meeting. You could take a cynical view and say some or all of this is flannel. However I am inclined to believe him and make a judgement again in, say, 3 months.

Slowhand99

nice work slowhand99 :cheers:

We could do with TrueBlue interrogating this fella. :lol:

Well done Slowhand99! Great info.

I didn't ask him about rescheduling the remaining payments because this is not a big issue for me. I am more concerned about timescales.

Slowhand99[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the update Slowhand99. Its appreciated.

I am however concerned for both the rescheduling of the remaining two payments as well as the timescale, as the next payment due ( for me which is in March) I intend to take out a loan as much of my funds are tied in UK Housing Market and Housing Market Abroad.

Hence albiet its no surprise to us all in the now announced delay, I will be looking at paying an additional 12 months interest on my Loan - not to mention the minus 12 months rental income.

I rang Russell this morning and asked for a meeting. He immediately agreed and I met with him for 45 mins or so this afternoon at their offices in Wilmslow. I had previously sent him various recent extracts from the forum.

I am buying two one bedders in Central Tower on the SPP. I have just made the Dec 08 payments and so have paid 70% of the total cost. I plan to retire when I can start drawing rental income from these apartments. Naturally I am keen to monitor my investment especially time to complete.

He was relaxed and encouraged me to ask questions.

He has an engineering degree and a sales background. He has been with SP four years or so two of which were in Dubai. Although in sales he worked alongside project managers in Dubai and has gained a fair amount of practical knowledge about constucting towers in Dubai.

He was appointed Director of After Sales SP in Aug 08.

He acknowledged progress was slow and SP had suffered delays with foundations (but not rest) on all their projects. However he said once the foundations had been complete constructing the towers should be quick in comparison.

I asked him to justify how the new completion date is DEC 2010 when Torch is taking longer than this date implies for the time to build the BC towers and he put forward the following points
- the Torch is 80+ floors, the largest tower in BC ie central tower is forty odd floors. The footprint of Torch is much larger than a tower in BC. Torch has 12 two bedders on each floor (or the equivalent in other configs on some floors) whereas Central BC tower has 8 one bedders on each floor and West BC has 12 studios on each floor or the equivalent thereof
- when asked about no progress on hotel he said providing all the outer work had been done on the hotel then the two residential towers could be released while the hotel is fitted out
- as they were building the top portion of each tower, the middle section can be clad and the bottom section can be fitted out inside all at the same time thus speeding up progress.

He asked me to look at progress on Park Island which has 4 towers and is being built by DCE. I haven't done this yet.

Some other points
- the two residential towers are sold out. There are a fair number of buyers who have bought several apartments. They sold 320 apartments in West Tower and 380 in Central Tower. There are still 2 or 3 villas for sale but these were released much later
- up until Sep/Oct time they have had only 2/3 people say they can't complete the payments. These units have been resold quite quickly
- probably more may arise out around the Dec payment but probably not that many
- EMAAR are the trustees of the Escrow accounts on BC which is comforting
- SP are planning to start to pay out compensation on The Point and Torch which they would like to avoid on BC
- BC is in the best location in the marina and I agree

I didn't ask him about rescheduling the remaining payments because this is not a big issue for me. I am more concerned about timescales.

All the above is my assessment of the meeting. You could take a cynical view and say some or all of this is flannel. However I am inclined to believe him and make a judgement again in, say, 3 months.

Slowhand99

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

I needed a good laugh, thanks :cheers:

We will be discussing the same issues again in a year............:bash:

Slowhand,

DCE were awarded a 2 year contract to build Park Islands and started in July 2006. PI is 24 and 28 floors. They are going to be 1 year to 18 months late on this smaller project.

If they start BC construction now they will be 3 years at best and more probably 4 years to complete.

If SP had ever completed a project they would know these facts. As they have not they continue to live in fantasy land and put on the smiles to keep everyone happy while they carry on taking in the money.

The longer these projects are delayed the more money is being wasted on staff overheads, office rents etc, time is money. The project has a finite budget so where will this extra overheads cost come from, a reduced spec?

These are some of the questions that I would have asked.

I actually laughed out loud when reading the '2 or 3' people behind with payments part.

Cheered me up, thanks!

.................... Cayan are late with all projects, Walls collapse, no power to buildings and 3 storey bridges are built in front of their buildings and no conspiracy theories on their forums. SP sent a letter explainging reasons for delay and everyone is jumping on the conspiracy stuff again. What is the problem? Is there something I don't know about?

Obviously!!!

Cayan have built 4 towers in the marina so far and the biggest delay was 1 year. As these delays became apparent Cayan immediately SUSPENDED PAYMENTS INLINE WITH THE NEW PROJECTED COMPLETION.

Dorrabay would have been handed over 9 months late but as you correctly point out DEWA delayed the handover by not connecting the power timeously, they must have used the 1 year late rule in their programming.:lol:

The wall collapse, a genuine unforeseen accident and PAYMENTS WERE SUSPENDED UNTIL THE PROBLEM SOLVED. This project will probably exceed the 1 year delay but the contractor is working 24/7 to mitigate the delays.

3 storey bridge is a better alternative to a 90 storey multi tower development (MST).:okay:

I have highlighted some salient points so you don't miss them this time..:D

according to the arabic daily al-Bayan, Deyyar has decided to freeze all payments for six months in consideration of the current economic conditions.

with all their delays, Select should make the freeze for at least one year!!

according to the arabic daily al-Bayan, Deyyar has decided to freeze all payments for six months in consideration of the current economic conditions.

with all their delays, Select should make the freeze for at least one year!!

well said Glover select should freeze all pauments at least up 1 year. my opinion is at least 18 months. will try and contact them and ask. see if i can get a straight answer.
:bash:

according to the arabic daily al-Bayan, Deyyar has decided to freeze all payments for six months in consideration of the current economic conditions.

with all their delays, Select should make the freeze for at least one year!!

I agree! Delay us for one year and they should have some sort of equal pain back! 1 year delay for investors should mean 1 year payment freeze.

well said Glover select should freeze all pauments at least up 1 year. my opinion is at least 18 months. will try and contact them and ask. see if i can get a straight answer.
:bash:

DXBGO - I would recommend doing this in writing. On the phone they are masters of avoiding answering simple and direct questions.

Joannides on Torch thread said this:

SPP Compensation
Payment penalties will be calculated on completion and deducted from the final instalment.

as of today, September 2009 is still being touted as the 'completion date'

--------
Torch LPP compensation plan details have not been posted...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM :)

Slowhand,

DCE were awarded a 2 year contract to build Park Islands and started in July 2006. PI is 24 and 28 floors. They are going to be 1 year to 18 months late on this smaller project.

If they start BC construction now they will be 3 years at best and more probably 4 years to complete.

If SP had ever completed a project they would know these facts. As they have not they continue to live in fantasy land and put on the smiles to keep everyone happy while they carry on taking in the money.

The longer these projects are delayed the more money is being wasted on staff overheads, office rents etc, time is money. The project has a finite budget so where will this extra overheads cost come from, a reduced spec?

These are some of the questions that I would have asked.

I have a very limited knowledge of construction. Your points seem worthwhile to me and are worth asking of SP. SP don't have a construction expert on their staff as all this expertise will reside in BCD in Dubai. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being and see what happens. In practice what more can we do in the short term? Is anyone resident in Dubai and can press BCD?

I actually laughed out loud when reading the '2 or 3' people behind with payments part.

Cheered me up, thanks!

Don't keep it to yourself then - spill the beans and let everyone else be amused or are you making it up?

^^ :lol::lol::lol:

That applies to 75% of the civilised world.

Classic

DXBGO - I would recommend doing this in writing. On the phone they are masters of avoiding answering simple and direct questions.

got e mail from account manager. at present SP have no plans to suspend future payments.
:lol:

^^Didn't expect any favours from the:

Select Investment Property

Select Property is the UK's leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

The only thing they delivered is BAD NEWS and just before xmas!

:lol::nuts::lol:

Any recent pictures of the progress here?

Wanted a direct comparison with Silverene which is 75% complete on the pile cap rafts.

There is no way Dubai’s municipality is going to grant a certificate of completion if the hotel tower is not completed. Check Emaar’s Quays. Emaar have told investors that they cannot handover the West tower (which is almost finished and all the outer work is done), because all the three towers of the Quays are considered one project and the authorities will not allow such a split handover for regulatary and safety reasons.



- when asked about no progress on hotel he said providing all the outer work had been done on the hotel then the two residential towers could be released while the hotel is fitted out
Slowhand99

There is no way Dubai’s municipality is going to grant a certificate of completion if the hotel tower is not completed. Check Emaar’s Quays. Emaar have told investors that they cannot handover the West tower (which is almost finished and all the outer work is done), because all the three towers of the Quays are considered one project and the authorities will not allow such a split handover for regulatary and safety reasons.

For clarity what he said was that
- our contract was for West and Central towers ie not the hotel. (He said the hotel was going ahead anyway and he mentioned the deal with Renaissance)
- providing these towers were complete, all the outside work on the hotel was done, no heavy machinery was onsite re hotel then the towers could be handed over. He also said the fitting out of any retail shops maybe not be completed at handover.

The thrust of your point Glover may well still be valid and I can see the common sense in this but that is what was said.

I can't see that in the circumstances we can do much because
- we know SP's stance on behalf of BCD and I can't see them changing it for the time being
- can't imagine RERA can/will do anything at present or an approach by lawyers on our behalf would be effective as there is no breach of contract by BCD as SP have given a reason for slow progress as set out in their recent letter
- the plan SP have given us recently might work out because of the future action they make take.

It is also clear from what the authorities are saying recently in the local Dubai press that there is not much sympathy now for flippers or speculators who are financially embarassed or are unhappy with their investment. To stabilise the future market they are looking for far less speculation.

All in all that is why I am waiting to see what happens over the next 2/3 months. If the rate of progress doesn't speed up by then I will be concerned.

If anyone has got any other common sense suggestions I'd be pleased to hear them.

You are wrong here imo. i did not buy an apartment in a residential tower here, i bought into the Project, which is defined in the contract as two residential towers and one hotel. clearly Select was marketing, promoting and selling these apartments as part of a project where a hotel will be providing a la carte service. The hotal was always promoted as an integral part of the development. The Project in the contract has one completion date, there is no mention whatsoever that the hotel will be built at a later stage. in fact, if that was the case, our apartments will not be handed over for the reasons i mentioned above.

Emaar's West tower in the Quays is almost 99% done but Emaar told investors they cannot hand over the building unless the other towers are completed.

you yourself have said that Russell does not have any construction background, how can he claim now that the residential towers can be handed over even if the hotel is not finished.

i am not sure why you are giving Select the benefit of the doubt here when their track record shows that they are trully masters of deceit!

i am going to file an online complaint with RERA right after the holidays (the government is closed until Dec 14) because now your meeting with Russell has confirmed that the hotel will be built later.

For clarity what he said was that
- our contract was for West and Central towers ie not the hotel. (He said the hotel was going ahead anyway and he mentioned the deal with Renaissance)
- providing these towers were complete, all the outside work on the hotel was done, no heavy machinery was onsite re hotel then the towers could be handed over.

I think this is useful info from Select Group website. The 3 towers are part of the project; If the entire hotel tower is not dedicated to becoming a Rennaisance Hotel Tower at the same time as my apartment, then I want my money back with compensation.

http://www.select-group.ae/images/map_large.jpg

You are wrong here imo. i did not buy an apartment in a residential tower here, i bought into the Project, which is defined in the contract as two residential towers and one hotel. clearly Select was marketing, promoting and selling these apartments as part of a project where a hotel will be providing a la carte service. The hotal was always promoted as an integral part of the development. The Project in the contract has one completion date, there is no mention whatsoever that the hotel will be built at a later stage. in fact, if that was the case, our apartments will not be handed over for the reasons i mentioned above.

Emaar's West tower in the Quays is almost 99% done but Emaar told investors they cannot hand over the building unless the other towers are completed.

you yourself have said that Russell does not have any construction background, how can he claim now that the residential towers can be handed over even if the hotel is not finished.

i am not sure why you are giving Select the benefit of the doubt here when their track record shows that they are trully masters of deceit!

i am going to file an online complaint with RERA right after the holidays (the government is closed until Dec 14) because now your meeting with Russell has confirmed that the hotel will be built later.

Don't see anything wrong in you doing this. Any pressure you can exert on SP is likely to help our cause.

Benefit of doubt only because I don't think we will get anywhere for now. If you think we can then please carry on. I am not in any way trying to discourage any of you. I'm just stating what was said to me so you know and my opinion on this.

Russell didn't say hotel would be delayed. He was responding to my question about why no progress on hotel so far and said if the hotel ended up behind the residential towers then it wouldn't be necessary for all three to be complete before we could move in ie no slow down on the residential towers they could proceed at own speed subject to outside of hotel tower being done. Clearly they need to start the hotel tower ASAP and this is what I will be expecting. If no start in next couple of months then a more pointed question can be asked.

If it can be shown that all 3 towers have to be complete before we can move in then clearly Russell is mistaken and we can point this out to him now.

pleas check the last few pages of the Quays thread.

as it stands today, the construction of the hotel has already been delayed!!! and there are no equipments on site to start the piling work as of today.


If it can be shown that all 3 towers have to be complete before we can move in then clearly Russell is mistaken and we can point this out to him now.

I think this is useful info from Select Group website. The 3 towers are part of the project; If the entire hotel tower is not dedicated to becoming a Rennaisance Hotel Tower at the same time as my apartment, then I want my money back with compensation.

http://www.select-group.ae/images/map_large.jpg

please see my response to glover re your point re the hotel

what is in your contract with BCD by the way re the hotel? Don't think you have a contract with SP UK as has been discussed on this forum earlier. SP UK are selling agents, our contract is with BCD a Dubai based company. Awkward legally from our point of view but a fact. I took this into account when deciding to see what happens over next 2/3 months. If I thought there was a way of succeeding right now in pinning them down then I would have already taken this action.

Being candid in the 2 to 3 months that I have participated in this forum I have come to the following conclusions
- there are only 4 or 5 or 6 investors in BC who use this forum. The other 200 to 300 investors (my estimate) don't. The other contributors to this forum make useful comments sometimes (some are just wind up merchants) but don't need to take the matter further
- no consensus has emerged amongst the 4 or 5 or 6 investors through the forum or through PMs. As you know we have tried but failed
- SP are slick operators and probably don't want to be pinned down for whatever reason
- their legal set up and modus operandi make it difficult to pin them down. Nobody has succeeded so far despite many trying

SP might be genuine in their intentions and deliver to the new timescales. Many on this forum won't beleive this. Only because of the circumstances, I am prepared to give them a chance for next 2/3 months to see how they do

Slowhand99

no construction update from SP for November?

can anyone point the camera at the site so we can see how much progress there making with the central tower foundations

no construction update from SP for November?

can anyone point the camera at the site so we can see how much progress there making with the central tower foundations

I am in Dubai 8th and 9th Dec and will take some pictures as well. Can someone send me a PM or point me to a post as to how I upload them to the forum.

I am also back in Dubai 3rd and 4th Jan 09 and will post some more.

Slowhand99

http://www.select-group.ae/images/map_large.jpg

Wow, they sure have a lot in their pipeline. I would guess some of these projects would either be put on hold or canceled due to the current economic downturn.

Knowing SP, they probably have the launch of a new tower in the works, completion date - Dec 2010 :lol:

according to the Pacific thread, Select has suspended/canceled Royal Gulf, their new project in RAK. there is no trace of the project on their website now!!!

Say goodbye to the hotel in BC!!

according to the Pacific thread, Select has suspended/canceled Royal Gulf, their new project in RAK. there is no trace of the project on their website now!!!

Say goodbye to the hotel in BC!!

I would take bets on everything outside the Marina especially Aquitainia (very silly land purchase imo) to never break ground.

I think they have had the sub-prime mentality in launching projects i.e operating on the premise that the Dubai real estate market would be all boom boom forever.

If a simple letter stating a few irrelevant facts could be an adequate reason for the “slow progress” then we could send a letter with much more relevant reasons for our “slow payments”. I agree with you that only a very experienced Law firm could upset the balance of their suspicious legal set up.


For clarity what he said was that
- our contract was for West and Central towers ie not the hotel. (He said the hotel was going ahead anyway and he mentioned the deal with Renaissance)
- providing these towers were complete, all the outside work on the hotel was done, no heavy machinery was onsite re hotel then the towers could be handed over. He also said the fitting out of any retail shops maybe not be completed at handover.

The thrust of your point Glover may well still be valid and I can see the common sense in this but that is what was said.

I can't see that in the circumstances we can do much because
- we know SP's stance on behalf of BCD and I can't see them changing it for the time being
- can't imagine RERA can/will do anything at present or an approach by lawyers on our behalf would be effective as there is no breach of contract by BCD as SP have given a reason for slow progress as set out in their recent letter
- the plan SP have given us recently might work out because of the future action they make take.

It is also clear from what the authorities are saying recently in the local Dubai press that there is not much sympathy now for flippers or speculators who are financially embarassed or are unhappy with their investment. To stabilise the future market they are looking for far less speculation.

All in all that is why I am waiting to see what happens over the next 2/3 months. If the rate of progress doesn't speed up by then I will be concerned.

If anyone has got any other common sense suggestions I'd be pleased to hear them.

Do you think this will ever be true? I really hope so...

http://www.selectproperty.com/cms_pages/img_gallery/bc3.jpg

according to the Pacific thread, Select has suspended/canceled Royal Gulf, their new project in RAK. there is no trace of the project on their website now!!!

Say goodbye to the hotel in BC!!

Still there, just hidden away...

http://www.selectproperty.com/cms_pages/Royalgulf/about.php

There has been some speculation about BCD/SP claiming Force Majeure for delays.

1st January 2012 is a long time off but should we be concerned about clause 16.3 of the purchase agreement for BC

"If the Buyer has fullfilled all his obligations under the terms of this Agreement and the Seller is unable to serve notice of completion of the Completion date of the Property by 1st January 2012, and such delay is due to Force Majeure, then either party shall have the right to terminate this agreement by serving on the other twenty (20) Business Days notice in writing. The buyer shall have no claims against the Seller in respect of damages, compensation or costs."

In the contract Force Majeure is defined as
" ...... ; and/or any event allowing a Developer an extension of time under the relevant building contract(s);"

slowhand99

Has anyone here had any feed back from RERA? :cheers:

I know it's Eid Holidays but do we know, when they will be back in work?

Arrived in rainy Dubai early this morning in the middle of a lightning storm.

The news on this development isn't any better I'm affraid. There is no progress on the development since my visit in September. There is labour on site but nothing meaningfull is happening.

To be perfectly clear, West tower is still a hole in the ground with no structural works started.

This project should be moved to ON HOLD, untill there is clear signs of the main construction underway. I would define that as the pile cap raft slab being poured.

I have taken pictures and will post when I get back to UK Tuesday. (forgot my cable:bash:)

^^Thanks for the update True Blue; appreciate your construction knowledge.

^^ i dont think its on hold just only a early Eid Break

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080825/BUSINESS/784898337/1051

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080825/BUSINESS/784898337/1051

thanks, good post.

Clearly this Court will help and there are some experienced property lawyers now in Dubai alsoif we need to take matters further.

Looking at the Torch thread plenty of heat is being generated over the same issues and their tower is now well on the way!

There has to be lots of investors who have invested in SP properties (Point, Torch, BC, Botanica etc) and who if they acted together effectively could sort out our mutual problems with SP.

I think this is ON HOLD.

http://i33.tinypic.com/zkpawn.jpg

^^^^Adam you should be helping on the BC site not heading for the mall. Burn off some of the fat you put on mate!

guys, this is getting ridiculous, time to get a life if you are resorting to stalking SP staff now, sorry but come on.........

dxbpc anypositive news and comments would be a welcome relief on this fum

Found an interesting article on Property Poker for amateurs that might go a long way to explain the wide spread panic taking place amongst the members of this forum with property at BC. See below
I can only say that i have spoken with my account manager who tells me that SP are looking at realigning payments with construction and they are hopeful more information will be available over the next few weeks. I still can't see what all the panic is because BC has unique financing and doesn't rely on mortgages. Those that opted for 15 yr payment schedule were not given the money lightly as they had to find 30% deposit. This developement sold out a long time ago and therefor all the finances for the build are in escrow. Anyone can ask SP for a copy of their escrow account. Also the fact that SP are able to offer this payment plan tells you more about their finances and relationship with banks etc. While i appreciate that anyone can comment on this forum there does appear to be a lot of outside parties with very negative comments.
At this moment i am happy to believe SP until proved otherwise. My main concern as i have stated previously are all the investors that bought several apartments intending to flip with limited funding available to sustain any delay in build. I have bought more than one but have the finaces available in a Dirhams to handle any market crisis. I would not have entered into this any other way...that is just silly. What we here on this site is two things. Confidence crisis from forum members because of their financial situation and inabiltiy to sell or meet future payments and non BC investors that seem to be relishing the opportunity to knock the developement any/every time they can.

See item below for an insight into who has bought and who comments [negatively] on this forum...IN MY OPINION.


"For what some might call semi-professional property speculators and others might call amateur gamblers, the game is up.

Flipping properties – the business of buying villas and apartments off-plan and then selling them before they are built – has made millions for the professionals, but is about to cost the amateurs their shirts."
continue to read here...
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540596-property-poker

These were taken Monday 9th Dec. No staff on site but EID hols and very few construction staff on any sites. Leaving early tomorrow so won't be able to see how many staff on site after holiday.

Central Tower
http://i33.tinypic.com/bfma0w.jpg

East Tower
http://i33.tinypic.com/339mxia.jpg

West Tower
http://i33.tinypic.com/nog9qh.jpg

^^Nice pics Slowhand! :applause:

[QUOTE=DxbPC;29139914]Found an interesting article on Property Poker for amateurs that might go a long way to explain the wide spread panic taking place amongst the members of this forum with property at BC. See below
I can only say that i have spoken with my account manager who tells me that SP are looking at realigning payments with construction and they are hopeful more information will be available over the next few weeks. I still can't see what all the panic is because BC has unique financing and doesn't rely on mortgages. Those that opted for 15 yr payment schedule were not given the money lightly as they had to find 30% deposit. This developement sold out a long time ago and therefor all the finances for the build are in escrow. Anyone can ask SP for a copy of their escrow account. Also the fact that SP are able to offer this payment plan tells you more about their finances and relationship with banks etc. While i appreciate that anyone can comment on this forum there does appear to be a lot of outside parties with very negative comments.
At this moment i am happy to believe SP until proved otherwise. My main concern as i have stated previously are all the investors that bought several apartments intending to flip with limited funding available to sustain any delay in build. I have bought more than one but have the finaces available in a Dirhams to handle any market crisis. I would not have entered into this any other way...that is just silly. What we here on this site is two things. Confidence crisis from forum members because of their financial situation and inabiltiy to sell or meet future payments and non BC investors that seem to be relishing the opportunity to knock the developement any/every time they can.

See item below for an insight into who has bought and who comments [negatively] on this forum...IN MY OPINION.


"For what some might call semi-professional property speculators and others might call amateur gamblers, the game is up.

Flipping properties – the business of buying villas and apartments off-plan and then selling them before they are built – has made millions for the professionals, but is about to cost the amateurs their shirts."
continue to read here...
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540596-property-poker[/QUOTE

Hi DxbPC. SP also told me several times that they were looking into deferring payment in line with delayed construction but it never happened. BH have a resale available in BC -10% from cost. Someone is having sleepless nights!

Hi DxbPC. SP also told me several times that they were looking into deferring payment in line with delayed construction but it never happened. BH have a resale available in BC -10% from cost. Someone is having sleepless nights

Regarding deferring payments...they told me it would probably be in new year before they sorted it out. If they refuse to defer then we should deal with it. Lets see how it goes after New Year. I would recommend that everyone asks for a copy of their own escrow statement...if only to put your mind at rest given all the rumours on this site.
Regarding the resale you mentioned...That surprises me as i have spoken with them almost daily in an attempt to buy up distressed resales. I have spoken with them just now and they had no idea what i was taliking about. They say there are people prepared to accept 10% permium which at todays level of excahnge would still give them an ROI OF 50%. Also I note from their website there are still a number of high priced units for sale...

guys, this is getting ridiculous, time to get a life if you are resorting to stalking SP staff now, sorry but come on.........

:hilarious



... seriously :rofl:

:ba

If they refuse to defer then we should deal with it.

that's a good one! is that your way to get in our "clique" and report back to SP in time for the christmas bonus !

the guy asks you for some positive news, and you say speculators/flippers are the cause of BC's problems. you can't be that delusional, seriuosly!

^^^^ MAKTOL.. first you told us that you have spoken too your account manager and they are in the process of delaying further payments..

then you say

If they refuse to defer then we should deal with it.

?

^^^^ MAKTOL.. first you told us that you have spoken too your account manager and they are in the process of delaying further payments..

then you say

If they refuse to defer then we should deal with it.

?

beppe
?

^^^^ MAKTOL.. first you told us that you have spoken too your account manager and they are in the process of delaying further payments..

then you say

If they refuse to defer then we should deal with it.

?

I'll let you read through my full post and then you can edit yours. Mines is a frank account of my beliefs and thoughts...nothing more...nothing less.
You and your mates always down people...i think its called bullying when you are at school. Please offer your opinions and stop just reacting to others...its getting to easy for me to lure ALL the plonkers into reacting to my posts. I thought you would be more clever than that!

that's a good one! is that your way to get in our "clique" and report back to SP in time for the christmas bonus !

the guy asks you for some positive news, and you say speculators/flippers are the cause of BC's problems. you can't be that delusional, seriuosly!

Thank you for your invitation to join your "clique". Unfortunately i will refuse at this time as i seem to be doing ok. Nothing too much to worry about. You?

On your second point i would like to correct you and say that you and the like are my concern not the "cause". http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540596-property-poker. Apparently i am not alone in my thinking as this is just one of a few articles that state this to be a concern.

BTW you forgot to get in no hotel in BC on your last post...your slipping.

I forgot you're a flipper
The LLP with no questions asked is Godsend imo. the money you will pay for one apartment on the SPP can be used, with a little bit more, to buy and pay for 3-4 apartments on the LLP until completion.
Hope it works for you ~ Is that what they call hedging?

Sat 6th December, not very different from September.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4978/p1010001py6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1741/p1010002fb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/4069/p1010004gp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^Spot the labour force...:ohno:

Look at the progress at Silverene thread for a direct comparison, pics taken within 30min.

Here is a comparative with Shahla tower between BC and PI taken at the same time. Note the density of workforce. This is what we should be witnessing at BC.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8150/p1010007bb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think this is evidence enough that there has been no construction on this site todate, just preparation and marking time by SP.

Move to ON HOLD.

Good photos thanks for update.
Regarding putting it on hold. What do you mean? Surely it would be "put on hold" by the builders and not some amateurs on a website that 7 of us sad b******s participate in. No?

Not a building expert but below is a comparison between September on left and December on right. Is this not some movement...
http://i36.tinypic.com/2ilotaf.jpg

^^ That's about 3 weeks work that took 3 months.

The "builders" are not on site, these are just some labour team supplied by SP possibly through DCE on a time and cost basis to keep the investors happy. They are only doing prep, no structural works on the towers have taken place yet.

deleted

I have spoken with my account manager at SP this afternoon and they have confirmed that they are in the process of sorting out a rescheduling of payment plans to take into account the delay. It will probably be several weeks before they have this worked out.

here!!

When is the next LLP due on this project?

When is the next LLP due on this project?

Why? You wanna pay it for me? :laugh:

1st March 2009 - get your cheque book ready!!:banana:

Found this quote on another forum...

Encouraging Quote from "AME info news"

'No defaults' on Dubai property"
United Arab Emirates: Monday, December 01 - 2008 at 11:40
Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority has said that there have so far been no defaults on payments for high-end properties. 'Every project on the ground and under construction would be completed. Master developers are intact and the high-end third party developers may find alternatives to carry on with their projects through bulk selling of units to private equity funds and hedge funds,' Rera's CEO told Emirates Business.

Seems delays do happen for genuine reasons...

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540730-four-seasons-hotel-project-delayed-until-2011

Might be worth a go if you are struggling...

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2008/12/pages/12112008_641540cdc40244e4a7e45bf076524b09.aspx

Interesting also...

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/12/Pages/12112008_a60cd6b572994eaa811ea38993ad66b2.aspx

The two residential towers have sold out. Although there will be some defaults due to current circumstances this won't be that numerous because of cost of defaulting ie min 30% of purchase price. The size of the footprint of the towers is relatively small and they are not high either so not a lot to construction to do comparatively speaking.

I reckon the problem is with the hotel. Reading the local quality business press in Dubai, many of the many hotel projects in Dubai are being cancelled or postponed because of downturn in business and outlook. Occupancy levels dropped in hotels by 5% in Sept and Oct and this trend is forecast to continue. There is at least one new substantial hotel in the JBR complex (Crowne Plaza) and it doesn't look like they are rushing to complete it. No piling has been done at all on hotel in BC (this is staggering) although slow progress is being made on other two towers. This would explain why progress has been slowed down dramatically ie TB thinks 3days work in 3 months. Local knowledgable observers in Dubai are very surprised at the lack of progress on such a prominent site.

If this is true, SP have a dilemma. If the hotel is not going ahead now, they will have to redesign hotel tower to be residential, get approvals then sell it which might be slow in current climate. If the hotel is going ahead can they get investment finance and are any of the hotels chains willing to commit if Renaissance are not?

In any event I think we maybe in for a substantial delay well beyond Dec 2010. I reckon if construction progress doesn't pick up in next 2/3/4 weeks it is a cert.

slowhand99

.
.
.
If this is true, SP have a dilemma. If the hotel is not going ahead now, they will have to redesign hotel tower to be residential, get approvals then sell it which might be slow in current climate. If the hotel is going ahead can they get investment finance and are any of the hotels chains willing to commit if Renaissance are not?

In any event I think we maybe in for a substantial delay well beyond Dec 2010. I reckon if construction progress doesn't pick up in next 2/3/4 weeks it is a cert.

slowhand99
SP should already have the designs for residential, EAST Tower was originally residential anyway.

Hotel stupid! I say .. SP stupid.
You guys certainly have some faith in this project.. Lets see how things shape up in 2009. My forecast - still a hole in the ground with earth moving equipment dotted around to convince investors some work is being carried out.

I have two words for SP - BBC Watchdog.

Someone here made a comment that the total plot was made from 2 separately bought plots and 1 of the plots did not yet have some kind of permissions. Is this still the case or is it more what slowhand is saying that the hotel might have pulled out?

In order to release the residential towers to owners the hotel has to be complete (except perhaps for fitting out).

No construction work on the hotel has been done at all yet. Why? Isn't this the key fact for owners/investors to recognise and for BCD or SP to explain?

Wasn't it sensible to pile all three towers together while equipment was on site? Isn't it rather odd the other two towers have been piled but not the hotel?

Unless they start work on the hotel why work on the other two towers as it only consumes funds on which SP can earn interest to help meet the costs of the project. (This is not the key issue for us to focus on. The main cost to owners and investors is the delay.)

Until work starts on the hotel isn't it self evident the project is effectively on hold?

So when will work start on the hotel? Doesn't the answer to this one simple question tell us most of what we need to know?

slowhand99

Yes, here I come with the big eraser. :)

Strength in numbers
by Holly Sands
As a combined group, between Select Property and Select Group - in the current tricky climate - we're worth a lot more than most other private developers in Dubai," he stresses.

"Whereas most of them buy land, outsource the contract, outsource the sales or have a small sales function, everything that we do, we do in-house. From the marketing and the creative side of it, all the way through to selling it, all the way through the contract process and the after-sales process," he explains.

In fact, according to Stott, Select Property has a 30-strong after-sales and contract team, who are employed to deal solely with customers who have already made a purchase through the network.

ARTICLE CONTINUES HERE...http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537987-strength-in-numbers?start=1

spoke to SP today about 1% registration fee....

they were not bothered about it... they told me that no penalties will be in place if i don't pay it at present... and that i would be able to pay it later without any problems.....




...

I thought end of the year was the deadline, has something changed?

This is really naughty, I paid already because they send me emails and letters asking for it :bash::bash:

I have spoken at length to SP re some of the issues which have been raised here recently. Here are their responses:

1. The hotel are definitely still on board
2. No piling has yet been done on hotel tower
3. Delays thus far have been due to required redesigns re shoring apparently due to new safety requirements (following the Infinity incident)
4. Piling will start early in the new year on hotel tower and new milestones have been set for construction, which are "realistic and achievable" (SP's words not mine)
5. SP are considering payment holidays due to delays which they did not do on either the Point or Torch

I did raise with them the comparison with Silverene to which they said that Silverene was progressing at an unprecedented speed, but that speed should not take priority over quality etc.

That was about it. Not sure if the above is a satisfactory response.

I have spoken at length to SP re some of the issues which have been raised here recently. Here are their responses:

1. The hotel are definitely still on board
2. No piling has yet been done on hotel tower
3. Delays thus far have been due to required redesigns re shoring apparently due to new safety requirements (following the Infinity incident)
4. Piling will start early in the new year on hotel tower and new milestones have been set for construction, which are "realistic and achievable" (SP's words not mine)
5. SP are considering payment holidays due to delays which they did not do on either the Point or Torch

I did raise with them the comparison with Silverene to which they said that Silverene was progressing at an unprecedented speed, but that speed should not take priority over quality etc.

That was about it. Not sure if the above is a satisfactory response.

I have spoken with them too on all these subjects and recieved the exact same replies. I have it in written form too.

I have spoken at length to SP re some of the issues which have been raised here recently. Here are their responses:

1. The hotel are definitely still on board
2. No piling has yet been done on hotel tower
3. Delays thus far have been due to required redesigns re shoring apparently due to new safety requirements (following the Infinity incident)
4. Piling will start early in the new year on hotel tower and new milestones have been set for construction, which are "realistic and achievable" (SP's words not mine)
5. SP are considering payment holidays due to delays which they did not do on either the Point or Torch

I did raise with them the comparison with Silverene to which they said that Silverene was progressing at an unprecedented speed, but that speed should not take priority over quality etc.
That was about it. Not sure if the above is a satisfactory response.

The shoring was finished more than 5 months ago. How can this be the reason for the ongoing delays?

I don't understand their comment about Silverene progress, surely their intention is to mimic this acheivement.

Picture from July, not much difference to site of today, but I suppose you are to believe that the quality is unmatched.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1083/img0155de3.jpg

BTW I passed Silverene tonight and it was all action and fully floodlit. BC had a handfull of floods on but no sign of life!

BTW I passed Silverene tonight and it was all action and fully floodlit. BC had a handfull of floods on but no sign of life!

True Blue, is this development on hold in your proffessional view ?

Better news

I went down to the site on foot this morning and saw them starting the reinforcement to the raft slab and lift pit. This is what I wanted to see as evidence of under construction. My opinion is that Bay West has effectively been on hold since July until now. Progress on central tower is rubbish and on the hotel, as we know, is on hold pending foundation works.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1445/p1010021aw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6335/p1010022ne7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The size of the labour force is still no where near what is required to make decent progress. Silverene had an estimated 350 workers on site and Shahla tower had around 150-200. BC had about 75.

^^Many thanks TB.

I can't get that excited about this I am afraid, this could just be another PR Exercise by SP&DCE, they are Masters at doing that and had enough practice. :cheers:

ManU, champions of the World..........I bet you will never say that about your Blues...........:lol::banana::banana::banana:

Are you staying there for the New Year?

Mackie, I am only here until Hogmany. Just came out for the old firm match, last time I was in Dubai the Gers drubbed them:lol: Fingers crossed:okay:

Just for comparison, the following 2 pictures show the difference in progress acheived at nearby Shahla Tower since 6th Dec;

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8150/p1010007bb9.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6237/p1010015fk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^^ thanks for sharing this. without opinions like yours, us laymen will be in the dark. thanks again.

Is there any project in Marina that goes slower than BC?
Just to draw comfort from it! :ohno:

^^Botanica

Launched over a year ago and only soil testing now. No foundation piling done:ohno:

I don’t mean Select Group’s achievements! All of them are delay award winning.


^^Botanica

Launched over a year ago and only soil testing now. No foundation piling done:ohno:

thanks true blue.. some good news

Better news

I went down to the site on foot this morning and saw them starting the reinforcement to the raft slab and lift pit. This is what I wanted to see as evidence of under construction. My opinion is that Bay West has effectively been on hold since July until now. Progress on central tower is rubbish and on the hotel, as we know, is on hold pending foundation works.
...
The size of the labour force is still no where near what is required to make decent progress. Silverene had an estimated 350 workers on site and Shahla tower had around 150-200. BC had about 75.

Good and well balanced update...thanks. As you will know by now i am an optomist so i will take it as progress.!
How are you getting on selling your apartments? Any joy yet?

contrary to claims by Select, Emaar's Quay experience clearly shows that Dubai authorities will not allow a split handover of the residential towers if the hotel construction is not fully completed. here is an official communication from Emaar to Quay investors about this issue, dated today Dec. 22.

"Emaar projects team have undertaken a comprehensive study to split the project in order to hand over the West Tower in advance, but the study reveals that Authorities are reluctant to approve this trend and most importantly we will not be able to operate the promised residents' facilities if this split occurs."

contrary to claims by Select, Emaar's Quay experience clearly shows that Dubai authorities will not allow a split handover of the residential towers if the hotel construction is not fully completed. here is an official communication from Emaar to Quay investors about this issue, dated today Dec. 22.

"Emaar projects team have undertaken a comprehensive study to split the project in order to hand over the West Tower in advance, but the study reveals that Authorities are reluctant to approve this trend and most importantly we will not be able to operate the promised residents' facilities if this split occurs."
I spoke with SP today and all three towers will rise together and be completed together...according to them. Also payment hoilday is a definate. Notification will follow very soon. Thoughts!?

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. However, very few people and companies are left unaffected by changes in the global economy over the past few months, leading to speculation about the security and stability of even the best-regarded companies and the progress of their developments. The landscape for property developers, investors, owners and service providers in the UAE and the world over has clearly changed and as a result we understand how sentiment towards companies like Select Property has changed with it.

From reading this forum it is clear that Select Property’s valued customers expect more information and reassurance than ever before, and so our primary objective over the weeks and months that follow will be to find the ways and means to give whatever reassurance is required. Whilst we do not feel that the attention we give to the after-sales service we provided to purchasers has changed clearly some of you do, and so we will strive to continue to improve in this area. For a start, we feel that we have no alternative but to step in and uphold the integrity of this development in this forum, as well as through our usual communication media (construction updates, MySelectProperty.com, regular letters and email bulletins). By doing so we aim to both reassure customers and also correct some popular misconceptions perpetuated in this and other threads within this forum – notably in the first instance that we ‘don’t care’ about the opinions expressed here.

With thousands of customers spanning over fifty countries and multiple languages, it is unfortunately not possible to personalise every piece of communication that is sent out from our business every day. Over the last month in particular therefore, I and many of my senior colleagues have spent increasing amounts of our time speaking to our many purchasers from all around the world. It is arguably the most important use of our time in the current period.
It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved. For everybody else I am happy to take calls at our UK office on any of the developments we promote, to listen to your views and accept your criticism, and between us we will try and answer any questions you have.

We have always offered a level of service and support which has made us stand out from other developers and sales agents we are compared to, as a result of which we have enjoyed high levels of repeat business and recommendation. We can and will raise our efforts to do so again as the stakes get higher in the current challenging market conditions.

Since announcing a delay in the projected completion date of Bay Central the developer, Select Group, has today also confirmed that all future payment instalments are moving back by three months, giving all purchasers a payment ‘holiday’ extending for some until the final quarter of 2009. It is hoped that by introducing measures like these they can alleviate the financial pressures on investors in the short term and mitigate the impact of the unforeseen delays.

(Giles Beswick)

Giles

Main point. Respect is normally freely given but when all your projects are running substancially late and with a pattern of behavoiur that clearly shows no respect for your customers then clearly you have unhappy customers.

You will fail to deliver anywhere near on time. You have taken in money that no way matches construction progress. So am I unhappy?. yes I am. Have you retained my respect .. no.

ps I am an owner of a Torch property but I empathise with the BC owners.

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. However, very few people and companies are left unaffected by changes in the global economy over the past few months, leading to speculation about the security and stability of even the best-regarded companies and the progress of their developments. The landscape for property developers, investors, owners and service providers in the UAE and the world over has clearly changed and as a result we understand how sentiment towards companies like Select Property has changed with it.

....

(Giles Beswick)

Giles,
Thanks for posting your thoughts...would it be possible for you to answer some of the main concerns via this forum? Unfortunately your post doesn't really say anything other than you will get back to us...How about a post full of all the facts that will blow away all the rumours???

For example but not limited to...

Is the hotel still definately on board?

Why is there still a severe shortage of labour on site and when can we expect to see more?

Will the three towers be built at the same time?

Why only a 3 month payment holiday when you have already announced a one year delay? I would at least expect the same holiday on payments given that we as investors will lose on potential income from your delay. Why not at least allow US to earn interest on our money rather than you earn it?
Given the escrow law and the fact all our money is released on build achievements who acrues all the interest on the vast sums of money sitting in the accounts and why is it not passed to us given the length of delay announced so far? For example...the amount of money i have given you so far would earn me £5000 in one year sitting in a standard account in Dubai. Morally if SP keep this and continue to take more money they are wrong and could be percieved as greedy. What are your thoughts on this and how will you attempt to address it?

Why is there no progress whatsoever on the east tower?

Do you really believe that your knew build schedule can be achieved?

Are you using best endeavours to move this project forward? [as it appears to me that you are not!]

Finally Giles...what is your position at Select?

Thanks

^^
The Select Group management team

http://www.select-group.ae/sales.html

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. However, very few people and companies are left unaffected by changes in the global economy over the past few months, leading to speculation about the security and stability of even the best-regarded companies and the progress of their developments. The landscape for property developers, investors, owners and service providers in the UAE and the world over has clearly changed and as a result we understand how sentiment towards companies like Select Property has changed with it.

From reading this forum it is clear that Select Property’s valued customers expect more information and reassurance than ever before, and so our primary objective over the weeks and months that follow will be to find the ways and means to give whatever reassurance is required. Whilst we do not feel that the attention we give to the after-sales service we provided to purchasers has changed clearly some of you do, and so we will strive to continue to improve in this area. For a start, we feel that we have no alternative but to step in and uphold the integrity of this development in this forum, as well as through our usual communication media (construction updates, MySelectProperty.com, regular letters and email bulletins). By doing so we aim to both reassure customers and also correct some popular misconceptions perpetuated in this and other threads within this forum – notably in the first instance that we ‘don’t care’ about the opinions expressed here.

With thousands of customers spanning over fifty countries and multiple languages, it is unfortunately not possible to personalise every piece of communication that is sent out from our business every day. Over the last month in particular therefore, I and many of my senior colleagues have spent increasing amounts of our time speaking to our many purchasers from all around the world. It is arguably the most important use of our time in the current period.
It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved. For everybody else I am happy to take calls at our UK office on any of the developments we promote, to listen to your views and accept your criticism, and between us we will try and answer any questions you have.

We have always offered a level of service and support which has made us stand out from other developers and sales agents we are compared to, as a result of which we have enjoyed high levels of repeat business and recommendation. We can and will raise our efforts to do so again as the stakes get higher in the current challenging market conditions.

Since announcing a delay in the projected completion date of Bay Central the developer, Select Group, has today also confirmed that all future payment instalments are moving back by three months, giving all purchasers a payment ‘holiday’ extending for some until the final quarter of 2009. It is hoped that by introducing measures like these they can alleviate the financial pressures on investors in the short term and mitigate the impact of the unforeseen delays.

(Giles Beswick)

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!

A 3 month payment holiday is an insult to your valued customers and demostrates how selfish and uncaring SP are in the current climate. SP can not be affected by the current global economic crisis to the extent their customers are. A more considered approach is required by you.

This crisis has eased considerably some of the previous problems associated with the region, spiraling costs, lack of labour and materials etc. This situation benefits the developer, carpe diem!

^^ i have an apartment in bc on the standard plan and paid nearly 75% upfront, now with a 1 year delay and i get 3 months delay in my payment.. how does that work out..

one thing for sure.. wont be buying another property from select in a hurry..

why did you pay already 75 % ? this is still just a hole and with this speed they need 4-5 years to finish it.

I just read that rera laws prohibit developers enforcing payment demands beyond 20% where construction has not started.

Good to see SP enforcing the parts of the law that suits them, the 1% registration fee.

^^ What is the RERA definition of 'constuction started' ?

I just found the article again and it is yours:lol:

Worth looking into;

....Rera's regulations state that investors who have paid over 20% of a property's total value can halt payments if the developer has yet to begin construction, but this does not apply if construction has already started.

http://www.ameinfo.com/179135.html

Stop payments while rera debate and eventually clarify the definition of "construction started"

Minimum would have to be all approvals issued and main contract formed with start date written in. What is happening on the site is just a side show IMO.

SP have written stating that approvals were delayed due to Infinity therefore they have a legal obligation to limit payment demands until this is sorted. In the case of a disputed start they should show the main contract to Rera displaying the contract start date.

Hope you follow my thinking here.

just to let everyone know where i stand here.

I have not paid the December installment, nor have i made any payments toward RERA registration fees (don't plan to do so any time soon). further, i have filed an online complaint with RERA.

Select needs to stop spinning, and instead provide straight forward answers to simple questions.

Select needs to stop spinning, and instead provide straight forward answers to simple questions.

This will come as a complete shock to you Glover but eventually i almost agree with you. They are master of spin and marketing however now they are being found out. I will endeavor to chase them to agree a stop of any further payments in line with build schedule as per my previous post.

Where i disagree with you is when you say

I have not paid the December installment, nor have i made any payments toward RERA registration fees (don't plan to do so any time soon). further, i have filed an online complaint with RERA.
For your own benefit in line with the law 13

Article (11)
In the event that the purchaser defaults on any term of the contract he made with the developer for the sale of the Real Estate Unit, the developer should notify the Department accordingly and the Department will then give the purchaser 30 days notice to fulfill his contractual obligations, by hand, registered post or email.
If at the end of the period referred to in item 1 of this Article the purchaser has not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the developer may cancel the contract and repay the purchaser his money less a deduction that does not exceed 30% of the monies paid by the purchaser

I would advise you to keep your payments upto date or at least have written confirmation of agreement between you and SP to back up your case.

Just for information i have been refused access to my escrow account by SP today...which is worrying and contrary to law 8 article 12. Everyone should be asking for a copy of their account and everyone should be given access. I am attempting to take it further and will report back if any news.

Article (12)

The depositors or their representatives may examine their account records and request copies and the representatives of the official authorities may examine the records and obtain copies.

why did you pay already 75 % ? this is still just a hole and with this speed they need 4-5 years to finish it.

everyone on the standard plan would have paid 70 / 75% not only me.. in line with the contract payment plan.

everyone on the standard plan would have paid 70 / 75% not only me.. in line with the contract payment plan.

I think this is why this project is mainly sold to UK buyers, i don,t think anyone in Dubai will pay 75% for something which has not risen above ground level because there are several other developments one can buy in where payments are made in accordance with construction stages.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5113/21msp3nox8.jpg

im on the standard plan

Posted by The-king in DM thread:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8032/31224359779d3269c217oqu6.jpg

I have read through the comments that been posted since we joined this forum with interest and can see the common themes developing in the questions that have been raised, which was my intention prior to posting further.
I can confirm that the hotel planned for the East tower of this development is definitely ‘on board’ and purchasers should not doubt this on the basis of their own analysis on progress of piling at each of the three plots that form part of this development.
It is clear that many purchasers are well informed about many commercial and technical aspects of developing real-estate on this scale and I will not pretend to be more of an expert in order to dismiss some the supposition I see here, however I do know that financing a project (especially a mixed-use development) like this and executing the many stages of its construction require levels of skill that exceed the understanding of even the most avid and enthusiastic spectator. As you know, we (Select Property) are not an equity partner in this development which is fully owned and controlled by Select Group in Dubai. Select Group have acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable.
As a general point, I would say that questions that appear very simple to answer usually aren’t – it would not make sense for us to withhold answers that were easy to give and allow the confusion and animosity that comes across in many of the comments posted here to develop. You do not need to reiterate the point that only answers to key questions will satisfy the need to restore confidence in the eyes of our customers, but clearly this will not happen overnight and we have to start somewhere.

There have been a number of question marks raised over the compliance of this project with the provisions of both Law 8 (escrow) and Law 13 (interim registration). I can confirm that Select Group are working very closely with RERA on this development and their actions do not breach the provisions of the regulations to which they are accountable. They have to regularly report the status of both payment collection and construction progress and were in meeting with appropriate representatives from the authorities as recently as last week to set our their plans. The principle of Law 8 was to ring-fence sales receipts exclusively to meet the costs of delivering the project. The requirements for transparency are towards the regulators who are there to uphold your interests as purchasers. You should not expect to have any greater visibility of activity in developers’ accounts yourselves.

Giles (is it still you or someone else)!

couldn't find any bio info about you, so here is a simple question for you: how does it feel to work for a company run by car salesmen turned into real estate developers!

^^ Does it really matter? My boss was a university drop-out that started from ZERO in a foreign country. I am a Electrical Engineer graduade that works in a total different field ... so what?

^^ Does it really matter? My boss was a university drop-out that started from ZERO in a foreign country. I am a Electrical Engineer graduade that works in a total different field ... so what?

Yes it does, just look at the Select Model. They should have stuck with flowers and second hand cars sales. We share part of the blame too for believing these ************.

yes it does. car salesmen, especially used ones, have a notorious reputation in the States for being deceptive, dishonest etc....

in general, coming with that background sets the tone of the culture of the new business. Select's track record speaks for itself here.

a university drop out or an engineer do not come with such baggage!

3 month payment holiday? that is nothing.

I think the payment holiday should be the same as the delays.

my original payment is in june 09 moved to september 09.. 3 months only!!

select have told us there milestones that near the end of 2009 they will have completed the shell of BC..

i dont think they will meet that./ unless they have over 300 people working on the site..

.......................... I will not pretend to be more of an expert in order to dismiss some the supposition I see here, however I do know that financing a project (especially a mixed-use development) like this and executing the many stages of its construction require levels of skill that exceed the understanding of even the most avid and enthusiastic spectator.(You presume! Don't doubt the combined capability of thid forum) .................... Select Group have acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group (The same imbicile that hired DCE at The Quays and Park Islands? You did Emaar a favour!) will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable. :ohno:
As a general point, ............................................................... but clearly this will not happen overnight and we have to start somewhere.(Please do, and as quickly as possible)There have been a number of question marks raised over the compliance of this project with the provisions of both Law 8 (escrow) and Law 13 (interim registration). I can confirm that Select Group are working very closely with RERA on this development (This suggests you are sailing close to the wind) and their actions do not breach the provisions of the regulations to which they are accountable. They have to regularly report the status of both payment collection and construction progress and were in meeting with appropriate representatives from the authorities as recently as last week to set our their plans. The principle of Law 8 was to ring-fence sales receipts exclusively to meet the costs of delivering the project. The requirements for transparency are towards the regulators who are there to uphold your interests as purchasers. You should not expect to have any greater visibility of activity in developers’ accounts yourselves.(So you have checked that you will not be penalised for with holding account details from investors)

I still have serious reservations about your ability, and your chosen contractor's ability to deliver this project within your own stated timescales.

Having employed so many experienced personnel to manage the project, I am sure you won't mind sharing, on a monthly basis, the project plus and minuses to target completion.

3 month payment holiday? that is nothing.

I think the payment holiday should be the same as the delays.

:applause:

Isn't the islamic way we both share the pain. We are delayed by a year, so SP should give us a payment holiday of 1 year.

3 months is nothing. SP have just given our lawyers 3 months more time to prepare our case.:lol:

I have read through the comments that been posted since we joined this forum with interest and can see the common themes developing in the questions that have been raised, which was my intention prior to posting further.
I can confirm that the hotel planned for the East tower of this development is definitely ‘on board’ and purchasers should not doubt this on the basis of their own analysis on progress of piling at each of the three plots that form part of this development.
It is clear that many purchasers are well informed about many commercial and technical aspects of developing real-estate on this scale and I will not pretend to be more of an expert in order to dismiss some the supposition I see here, however I do know that financing a project (especially a mixed-use development) like this and executing the many stages of its construction require levels of skill that exceed the understanding of even the most avid and enthusiastic spectator. As you know, we (Select Property) are not an equity partner in this development which is fully owned and controlled by Select Group in Dubai. Select Group have acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable.
As a general point, I would say that questions that appear very simple to answer usually aren’t – it would not make sense for us to withhold answers that were easy to give and allow the confusion and animosity that comes across in many of the comments posted here to develop. You do not need to reiterate the point that only answers to key questions will satisfy the need to restore confidence in the eyes of our customers, but clearly this will not happen overnight and we have to start somewhere.

There have been a number of question marks raised over the compliance of this project with the provisions of both Law 8 (escrow) and Law 13 (interim registration). I can confirm that Select Group are working very closely with RERA on this development and their actions do not breach the provisions of the regulations to which they are accountable. They have to regularly report the status of both payment collection and construction progress and were in meeting with appropriate representatives from the authorities as recently as last week to set our their plans. The principle of Law 8 was to ring-fence sales receipts exclusively to meet the costs of delivering the project. The requirements for transparency are towards the regulators who are there to uphold your interests as purchasers. You should not expect to have any greater visibility of activity in developers’ accounts yourselves.

My reply to your earlier post wit unanswered questions below. Any chance you could answer the rest and also agree for longer payment holiday. Further more can we agree that the monthly update includes more detailed info on further delays etc., etc.
Also you seem to be passing the buck to SG which is sad because we need to deal with the people with info not a sales team with know insight. Thoughts!

Giles,
Thanks for posting your thoughts...would it be possible for you to answer some of the main concerns via this forum? Unfortunately your post doesn't really say anything other than you will get back to us...How about a post full of all the facts that will blow away all the rumours???

For example but not limited to...

Is the hotel still definately on board? Answered thanks

Why is there still a severe shortage of labour on site and when can we expect to see more?

Will the three towers be built at the same time?

Why only a 3 month payment holiday when you have already announced a one year delay? I would at least expect the same holiday on payments given that we as investors will lose on potential income from your delay. Why not at least allow US to earn interest on our money rather than you earn it?
Given the escrow law and the fact all our money is released on build achievements who acrues all the interest on the vast sums of money sitting in the accounts and why is it not passed to us given the length of delay announced so far? For example...the amount of money i have given you so far would earn me £5000 in one year sitting in a standard account in Dubai. Morally if SP keep this and continue to take more money they are wrong and could be percieved as greedy. What are your thoughts on this and how will you attempt to address it?

Why is there no progress whatsoever on the east tower?

Do you really believe that your knew build schedule can be achieved? answered thanks

Are you using best endeavours to move this project forward? [as it appears to me that you are not!]

Finally Giles...what is your position at Select? Found info about you on select group site and also by googling.
Thanks

my original payment is in june 09 moved to september 09.. 3 months only!!

select have told us there milestones that near the end of 2009 they will have completed the shell of BC..

i dont think they will meet that./ unless they have over 300 people working on the site..

Rubbish, this will just be up to ground then no more. 3 month rest is joke can help no body. I bouhgt studio late and regret, life gose on.......

http://i44.tinypic.com/9u8a3k.jpg

just cut out the BC site from kings picture

Just in case you need it... the link is - --- Completed / On Hold Projects (links) ---

http://i44.tinypic.com/9u8a3k.jpg

just cut out the BC site from kings picture

Lets use this pix to judge the progress next year. Needless to say, I don't see or envisage much happening.

according too SP milestones this time next year the complete structure will be completed for all towers

http://i44.tinypic.com/9u8a3k.jpg

just cut out the BC site from kings picture
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=335563&page=25
Just lokking back at The Point Thread to give me some solace -checkout the May 07 to Dec 07 progress still doesnt suggest to me a completed structure by end of 09 but there should be two towers 2/3 rds way up perhaps ?

Looking at the aerial view above it does look like the central tower has been moved closer to West tower. The two residential towers are now closer together and the Hotel has half of the entire plot.

Or is the picture missleading:dunno:

Here is Imre's aerial pic from May 08 for comparison with above. Silverene is still piling back in May.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2363/imresolt170jp3.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=335563&page=25
Just lokking back at The Point Thread to give me some solace -checkout the May 07 to Dec 07 progress still doesnt suggest to me a completed structure by end of 09 but there should be two towers 2/3 rds way up perhaps ?

hi guys
just been to BC site. surprise surprise at least 250 workers on site. have taken some pics thru a hole in the fence. will try and post them within next few days.
there were even workers on 23rd december. seems like a lot of activity going on.
3 month payment holiday is only to keep us quite.As dxbpc says it should have been 12 months same as the delay.
anyway a bird in hand is better than 2 in a bush.
:bash:

I did a head count today, about 100 on site. Progress is only to the West tower. The rebar is almost complete to the raft on West tower and Central tower is still breaking out the piles.

I did note that the raft slab on West tower was only about 1.2m thick which suggests a low self weight tower. Lots of aluminium and plasterboard.

I did a head count today, about 100 on site. Progress is only to the West tower. The rebar is almost complete to the raft on West tower and Central tower is still breaking out the piles.

I did note that the raft slab on West tower was only about 1.2m thick which suggests a low self weight tower. Lots of aluminium and plasterboard.

went again today. was supposed to be a holiday . apparently was new years day. still were 25 workers on site.TB could you explain on lay mans terms whatlow self weight tower means..

:cheers:

I'm not sure I can explain any easier what the "self weight" is. I thought it was self explanitory.:)

Buildings and their foundations are designed to support a combination of dead loads and imposed loads. The self weight of the structure is the dead load as it never changes. Imposed loads (sometimes called live loads) include furniture, people wind etc and change every day.

I did a head count today, about 100 on site. Progress is only to the West tower. The rebar is almost complete to the raft on West tower and Central tower is still breaking out the piles.

I did note that the raft slab on West tower was only about 1.2m thick which suggests a low self weight tower. Lots of aluminium and plasterboard.
Hope we Wont hear the neighbours argueing THROUGH THE PLASTERBOARD ??

I'm not sure I can explain any easier what the "self weight" is. I thought it was self explanitory.:)

Buildings and their foundations are designed to support a combination of dead loads and imposed loads. The self weight of the structure is the dead load as it never changes. Imposed loads (sometimes called live loads) include furniture, people wind etc and change every day.
thanks TB
the reason i asked was. I do not have any knowledge about construction. But i went for a walk around marina on friday the 26t dec. Stopped at silverene site and saw them poring the concrete slab.this was done for the whole site of silverene for both the towers.
So if SP are only progressing on west tower. Are they going to pour the concrete slabs at different times. seems a bit silly from a laymans point of view.I am sure if we ask this chap who posted something on behalf of Select property recently will come up with a fuzzy reply like the last one.
Looking at other sites including Silverene would it not be right to pour the concrete slab at one go for all three towers and then start on podium.Just a thought.
have a good new years.
:cheers:

The raft at Silverene will be completed in about 4 seperate pours so West tower can be constructed indepenently without problem.

The raft at Silverene will be completed in about 4 seperate pours so West tower can be constructed indepenently without problem.

take back all i said...words of comfort and reassurance...the west is moving...


oh guys and gal and she knows who she is .... take care and..............


[SIZE="7"][/SIhappy new yearZE]

Started the pour to the pile raft slab this afternoon. 4 concrete pumps and about 75 labour on site.

Progress on central tower still very slow and nothing on hotel.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6333/p1010034pb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This will be my last report from Dubai as I travel home early tomorrow in time for a Scottish Hogmany.

All the very best to everyone everywhere.

thanks True Blue..

progress at last even if its on the west tower only...

Thanks for the pics and commentary True Blue.

From my point of view looks like SP/DCE have started to pull their finger out and get on with the job!

i was looking at the same yesterday afternoon at site.Pouring of raft slabs looked impressive.progress at last.i am here till 3rd jan will get some more pics and post them on return.
WISHING EVERYONE A VERY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.:cheers:

Bay Central Investors, something I picked upon on this morning while reading through AME Info news online, New RERA law on payments of off plan property in Dubai..

http://www.ameinfo.com/179982.html


MOAF

Bay Central Investors, something I picked upon on this morning while reading through AME Info news online, New RERA law on payments of off plan property in Dubai..

http://www.ameinfo.com/179982.html


MOAF

i see workers back on site! that will be from your expensive christmas payments then! (durham versus pound etc):nuts:
pity Rera did,nt do this new law a few weeks ago !
it would have saved investors a few quid :ohno:
:)

Bay Central Investors, something I picked upon on this morning while reading through AME Info news online, New RERA law on payments of off plan property in Dubai..

http://www.ameinfo.com/179982.html


MOAF

Dubai issues new payment rule

Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) has issued a new rule which says developers can collect no more than 20% of the cost of a property from a buyer until construction begins, reported Emirates Business. 'We have sent out letters to 100 developers - as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions - telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20% of the contract value,' Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told the daily. Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.'We have sent out letters to 100 developers - as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions - telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value,' Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.'With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress.'Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.
MOAF

If i am reading this correctly does that mean we don't have to make any further payments until the build meets the requirements for draw down of the escrow? Reading it i would say it applies to LPP also as it relates to percentages paid against build landmarks. Is this everyone elses interpretation? Good news if it is!

^^Giles - Any comments? Has your 3 month payment holiday been extended by RERA for us?

Happy New Year Everyone! :applause:

Taken 9.00 am Sunday 4th Jan 2009

http://i39.tinypic.com/ve9jbl.jpg

Locals (unbiased I think) comment more labour has been switched from another local site in recent days. They reckon labour is working 24 hours a day now although only small number working overnight. West tower has shown more progress since TB's impressive picture. I saw around 20+ working on central tower as well which is a relief. No progress on the hotel but again locals comment that hotel's position restricts access to other two towers which will ease considerably when their foundations etc are built up to street level. They say hotel will commence when this happens. I don't know whether this makes sense in construction terms but it sounds plausible to me given layout of the site.

So progress has speeded up which to give SP their due is what they said would happen. :) About time but very welcome. :cheers: Hopefully pace will pick up even more.

I think the Dubai Authorities move to further control developers through linking payments to progress is part of a welcome trend to protect investors/owners and stop developers acting solely in their best interests. I wouldn't mind betting SP have been told to "get their finger out ie get on with it" given little construction progress so far and all that money they have collected from owners and investors including me!

fact is they have done 4 months work in three years !

Taken 9.00 am Sunday 4th Jan 2009


Locals (unbiased I think) comment more labour has been switched from another local site in recent days. They reckon labour is working 24 hours a day now although only small number working overnight. West tower has shown more progress since TB's impressive picture. I saw around 20+ working on central tower as well which is a relief. No progress on the hotel but again locals comment that hotel's position restricts access to other two towers which will ease considerably when their foundations etc are built up to street level. They say hotel will commence when this happens. I don't know whether this makes sense in construction terms but it sounds plausible to me given layout of the site.

So progress has speeded up which to give SP their due is what they said would happen. :) About time but very welcome. :cheers: Hopefully pace will pick up even more.

I think the Dubai Authorities move to further control developers through linking payments to progress is part of a welcome trend to protect investors/owners and stop developers acting solely in their best interests. I wouldn't mind betting SP have been told to "get their finger out ie get on with it" given little construction progress so far and all that money they have collected from owners and investors including me!

Great update Slowhand! :applause:

Yes, I think SP have realised that they will not be collecting more money from us unless there is real construction progress.

Taken 9.00 am Sunday 4th Jan 2009

PHOTO

Locals (unbiased I think) comment more labour has been switched from another local site in recent days. They reckon labour is working 24 hours a day now although only small number working overnight. West tower has shown more progress since TB's impressive picture. I saw around 20+ working on central tower as well which is a relief. No progress on the hotel but again locals comment that hotel's position restricts access to other two towers which will ease considerably when their foundations etc are built up to street level. They say hotel will commence when this happens. I don't know whether this makes sense in construction terms but it sounds plausible to me given layout of the site.

So progress has speeded up which to give SP their due is what they said would happen. :) About time but very welcome. :cheers: Hopefully pace will pick up even more.

I think the Dubai Authorities move to further control developers through linking payments to progress is part of a welcome trend to protect investors/owners and stop developers acting solely in their best interests. I wouldn't mind betting SP have been told to "get their finger out ie get on with it" given little construction progress so far and all that money they have collected from owners and investors including me!

Thanks. Good Photo and good update. Seams reasonable and unbiased.
Like you i am happy to see progress. Do you have any more photos from different angles. Also any [anyone] of the new mall from BC side?Thanks

[QUOTE=True Blue;29900646]Looking at the aerial view above it does look like the central tower has been moved closer to West tower. The two residential towers are now closer together and the Hotel has half of the entire plot.

Or is the picture missleading:dunno:




Stood within the site tonight at the centre of the arc close to the marina and I would say the central tower is just to the left of centre but close to the front with the west tower tucked well into the left back corner - you can get a good appreciation of both these positions by looking at TB's last picture. In other words I think TB's suggestion is right that the space for the hotel is perhaps 55% of the site.

Thanks. Good Photo and good update. Seams reasonable and unbiased.
Like you i am happy to see progress. Do you have any more photos from different angles. Also any [anyone] of the new mall from BC side?Thanks

I can confirm that the Mall is now open. I didn't take shots during the day. I tried to take one tonight but picture is too dim but it looks great day and night.

During the day I also walked along the far side of the marina past the yatch club towards BC and I must say the whole marina will look fabulous when finished. BC is in a great location.

On the JBR side more and more food and coffee outlets are opening and the Walk down by the beach side near the car park is lively with plenty of people around during the day and at night. This area can be easily accessed on foot in 2/3 mins from BC.

All we need is for SP/SG to do what they are now supposed to do and deliver by no later than Dec 2010.

The local business press are saying that there are many developers in Dubai at present but in the new era only those that can deliver as well as sell will prosper. Will SP/SG be one of them are they just really a sales/marketing organisation?

[QUOTE=True Blue;29900646]Looking at the aerial view above it does look like the central tower has been moved closer to West tower. The two residential towers are now closer together and the Hotel has half of the entire plot.

Or is the picture missleading:dunno:




Stood within the site tonight at the centre of the arc close to the marina and I would say the central tower is just to the left of centre but close to the front with the west tower tucked well into the left back corner - you can get a good appreciation of both these positions by looking at TB's last picture. In other words I think TB's suggestion is right that the space for the hotel is perhaps 55% of the site.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mpkdwo.jpg

I have this site plan of the full area attached to my contracts. It shows the layout and split. Is this what everyone else has?
It differs from the original but was given to me over 20 months ago. It shows that there is a clear divide of the site in favour of the hotel but i would say the pool layout and increased podium sixe more than compensates. TB wouldn't have seen this as he doesn't have contract or apartments. He's a jewel and dorra guy.

Hi

For those of us spending Xmas and New Year in the UK - a few photos of the lively Marina would be great - just to keep my spirits high until late 2010.

thks

Ianthy:cheers:

"Stood within the site tonight at the centre of the arc close to the marina and I would say the central tower is just to the left of centre but close to the front with the west tower tucked well into the left back corner - you can get a good appreciation of both these positions by looking at TB's last picture. In other words I think TB's suggestion is right that the space for the hotel is perhaps 55% of the site."

I think I mean the hotel takes what looks like 40 to 45 % of the whole site.

You can compare this with my picture from same time yesterday. Also saw around 30 workers on central tower which is also encouraging. There were around 10 working overnight but not much action on other sites in area either. Given location of entrance to the site it is diffcult to see how they could be working on the hotel yet.

http://i42.tinypic.com/353b1br.jpg

Thanks. Good Photo and good update. Seams reasonable and unbiased.
Like you i am happy to see progress. Do you have any more photos from different angles. Also any [anyone] of the new mall from BC side?Thanks

Best I can do. The mall looks great from side facing road. I spotted this as I left for the airport today.

http://i44.tinypic.com/n8bat.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/zbs4.jpg

http://www.alineah.com/news/262/detail.htm

Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.

"We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.

"We have all the figures in our database and are asking developers to stop collecting money from buyers," said Al Mansoori.

Rera Chief Executive Marwan bin Ghalita said developers could protect their rights by referring disputes to the Property Court where contractual agreements would be enforced. "The message we want to send out to the developers and lending banks is to consider the situation of the investor before they take action," he said. "In this time of crisis, everyone should work together and everybody's rights will be protected."

Meanwhile, Rera has announced that a revision of Law No 8 is being considered by Dubai Land Department.

"For new sales and purchase agreements the booking amount has been set at a fixed amount rather than the previous rate of five to 10 per cent of the contract value," said Al Mansoori . "In January, Rera will set up a technical audit team. The new system will enable stricter auditing of the escrow account, the developer and the trustee."

He added that Rera was introducing regulatory procedures covering Law No 13, which established the Interim Real Estate Register.

A land department spokesman said 100,000 units had already been registered.

Yacht club Jan 05 09 which will be able to be seen from BC

http://i43.tinypic.com/2wnxq53.jpg

View opposite Yacht club which won't be able to be seen

http://i43.tinypic.com/b8y34.jpg

^^ Not a free boat place!

Pics from DxbGo! :applause:

http://i44.tinypic.com/zmxn5d.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/11azbiv.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/21f6e.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/9k09r4.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/msyept.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/uc949.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/1z4wsk8.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/33ug9z7.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/1zh1zq8.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/iwllhs.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/favuqu.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/oqgn5v.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/23lgcn.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/352gidu.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/30126ud.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/n1wchx.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/33o3cb8.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/k2jxpu.jpg

Best I can do. The mall looks great from side facing road. I spotted this as I left for the airport today.



Great photos thanks. The area will be fantastic. Can't wait.

Pics from DxbGo! :applause:

http://i39.tinypic.com/iwllhs.jpg



Brilliant pictures dxbgo and fwiw. Keep up the great work. Looks like they are really going for it now.

great pictures / slowhand pictures are newer..

no construction update from SP again..

great pictures / slowhand pictures are newer..

no construction update from SP again..

SP must be in frantic meetings thinking what to do about recent RERA ruling.
as most people on SPP have now paid 70%. next payment will have to be linked with construction progress.Even if SP reach podium level by sept 2009 which is highly unlikely despite what they say. SP cannot ask for next 20 % at least till whole external structure is completed.
Let us see what RERA come up with.
:cheers:

yeah your right... looks like we have a long payment hoilday..

http://www.alineah.com/news/262/detail.htm

Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.

"We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.

"We have all the figures in our database and are asking developers to stop collecting money from buyers," said Al Mansoori.

Rera Chief Executive Marwan bin Ghalita said developers could protect their rights by referring disputes to the Property Court where contractual agreements would be enforced. "The message we want to send out to the developers and lending banks is to consider the situation of the investor before they take action," he said. "In this time of crisis, everyone should work together and everybody's rights will be protected."

Meanwhile, Rera has announced that a revision of Law No 8 is being considered by Dubai Land Department.

"For new sales and purchase agreements the booking amount has been set at a fixed amount rather than the previous rate of five to 10 per cent of the contract value," said Al Mansoori . "In January, Rera will set up a technical audit team. The new system will enable stricter auditing of the escrow account, the developer and the trustee."

He added that Rera was introducing regulatory procedures covering Law No 13, which established the Interim Real Estate Register.

A land department spokesman said 100,000 units had already been registered.

Has anyone seen this announced on rera homepage or other credible source?

^^^^^ it's real. i got a call a week ago from the developer of KPM Tower in the marina. they wanted me to come over and take my new payment schedule which will be based on construction progress (i have a studio there).

the story said RERA sent out letters to developers regarding these new rules, and this is a proof of it!

thats why SP has pullled there finger out and speeded up.. as there old game plan gone outa the window

SP must be in frantic meetings thinking what to do about recent RERA ruling.
as most people on SPP have now paid 70%. next payment will have to be linked with construction progress.Even if SP reach podium level by sept 2009 which is highly unlikely despite what they say. SP cannot ask for next 20 % at least till whole external structure is completed.
Let us see what RERA come up with.
:cheers:

I'm on LPP and have paid 24% - I am sure all others on LPP must be over 20% by now? Is this true?

In case anyone missed the article here it is: http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/12/Pages/12312008_e460414bf0cd4372bed20f0362e9d90d.aspx

Quote:
"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

I'm on LPP and have paid 24% - I am sure all others on LPP must be over 20% by now? Is this true?."

All People on LPP must have paid at least 30% as the initial two deposit payments amount to this.

From SP website

Non-status Lengthy payment plan
£3000/€4200 reservation fee
15% on exchange of contract
15% six months thereafter
Quarterly instalments spread over 15 years
Completion December 2009




In case anyone missed the article here it is: http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/12/Pages/12312008_e460414bf0cd4372bed20f0362e9d90d.aspx

Quote:
"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

All People on LPP must have paid at least 30% as the initial two deposit payments amount to this.

From SP website

Non-status Lengthy payment plan
£3000/€4200 reservation fee
15% on exchange of contract
15% six months thereafter
Quarterly instalments spread over 15 years
Completion December 2009

The confusion arises because the above is against the standard payment price. i.e. 15% of standard price.

It was the same when RERA wanted 1% for Land Registration. Therefore, if you are on LPP you need to calculate how much you have paid against final price.

if i am not mistaken, the escrew account, which is what rera goes by when it comes to payments received, should show more money than the funds paid by the buyer. the LLPs were financed, which means someone would pay SP big chunks of money of the value of the property for construction. the buyer in return would pay about 7% interest to the financer.

we will all know the details in a matter of weeks!

^^Can't wait!

what you got too say now Giles Beswick?

The confusion arises because the above is against the standard payment price. i.e. 15% of standard price.

It was the same when RERA wanted 1% for Land Registration. Therefore, if you are on LPP you need to calculate how much you have paid against final price.

agree it works out as 24 % if calculated on total price of LTPP. and 36% if calculated on original purchase price.as dxbpc says. initial payments were 30 % before LTPP kicked in.RERA did not take this to account when they calculated the 1% land registration fees.What surprised me then was that SP did not argue the point with Rera as SP would have had to pay 1% as well.
Now offcourse SP will state that we have paid 24%. we may have to go to rera and show them our initial document which DXPC mentions to argue our case that we have paid 36% on LTPP.Wait and watch.:cheers:

Has anyone got a reaction from SP on the new ruling re aligning payments with construction progress?

Has anyone got a reaction from SP on the new ruling re aligning payments with construction progress?

what do you think .would you respond if you were in SP shoes.:bash:

Has anyone got a reaction from SP on the new ruling re aligning payments with construction progress?

Not a reaction but a conversation. They are aware of the "ruling" and were in talks all day yesterday. They are awaiting instruction from the developer and further clarification. Hopefully have some further info by end of next week. I also notice RERA have a new system for complaints. It may be worth logging on to this and stating your case to bolster our collective case.

http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/welcome#complaint

Not a reaction but a conversation. They are aware of the "ruling" and were in talks all day yesterday. They are awaiting instruction from the developer and further clarification. Hopefully have some further info by end of next week. I also notice RERA have a new system for complaints. It may be worth logging on to this and stating your case to bolster our collective case.

http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/welcome#complaint

most good projects like JBR only asked for last 25% payment at hand over.Let us wait and see SP/SG response.Alo would be nice to know where people on LTPP stand with new RERA Ruling.:banana:

[QUOTE=DxbPC;30346228]I also notice RERA have a new system for complaints. It may be worth logging on to this and stating your case to bolster our collective case.


DxbPC,
What is the difference? Complaint categories are again restricted to 7 and none of those suits our case (alignment of payments to construction progress)

I also notice RERA have a new system for complaints. It may be worth logging on to this and stating your case to bolster our collective case.

[
DxbPC,
What is the difference? Complaint categories are again restricted to 7 and none of those suits our case (alignment of payments to construction progress)

Select any nearly relevant topic and then change it to suit your complaint. Better than not doing it and at least you will have a complaint record for future reference

we need too setup a webcam which takes a picture every hour..

anyone with an marina apartment over looking BC

like this one in NY

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/timessquare/?cam=streaming&cam_type=streaming

Email From Select



Further to the letter we sent out on the 23rd December 2008 we also wanted to confirm the payment holiday for Bay Central via email.



In view of the projected delayed completion of Bay Central, Dubai Marina, I am writing to inform you that we have received confirmation from the developer, Select Group, that they have granted a three month payment ‘holiday’ for all purchasers of Bay Central, Dubai Marina.



In order to be entitled to this payment holiday you must be up to date with your payment schedule, which includes all payments due up to 1st December, 2008. This effectively means that all payments in your payment schedule will now move ahead three months (except where you have a payment due ‘on completion’ will remain payable on the completion date).



Select Group has chosen to offer this 3 month payment holiday to offer some financial relief to buyers in Bay Central and hopefully minimise the impact of the unforeseen delay.





Yours sincerely







Russell Hayes

Aftersales Director

this 3 month payment holiday is joke :)

they will have only 3 month delays?

It may well be a joke in terms of what it offers to BC investors.

It does however set an interesting legal precident that SP can be held accountable to in the future.

Email From Select



Further to the letter we sent out on the 23rd December 2008 we also wanted to confirm the payment holiday for Bay Central via email.



In view of the projected delayed completion of Bay Central, Dubai Marina, I am writing to inform you that we have received confirmation from the developer, Select Group, that they have granted a three month payment ‘holiday’ for all purchasers of Bay Central, Dubai Marina.



In order to be entitled to this payment holiday you must be up to date with your payment schedule, which includes all payments due up to 1st December, 2008. This effectively means that all payments in your payment schedule will now move ahead three months (except where you have a payment due ‘on completion’ will remain payable on the completion date).



Select Group has chosen to offer this 3 month payment holiday to offer some financial relief to buyers in Bay Central and hopefully minimise the impact of the unforeseen delay.





Yours sincerely

.





Russell Hayes

Aftersales Director

I assume mr hayes has not heard or read the new RERA ruling published on 31st dec. Beppe pleaase send him a copy.:bash:

If you haven't made your Dec payment then you are not entitled to the 3 month holiday :ohno:

The Law states differently, it is DS that have not met the requirements of the new law by not progressing effectively. Only the west tower has basic amount of construction underway. Owners in Central tower should write insisting on a refund of payments beyond 20%, as you are entitled to under THE LAW.

ive emailed him back to comment how 3 months work out with the new RERA law in place..

lets see what he has too say..

ive emailed him back to comment how 3 months work out with the new RERA law in place..

lets see what he has too say..

It will be something like this;

Witholding payments will affect our ability to maintain the required progress onsite and will ultimately result in unforeseeable delays to the entire project. Should this happen then SP will not accept responsibility for the delays or the payment of compensation.

Got you worried yet? The 2 things that they will use to threaten you, progress (which is shit anyway) and compensation (which they haven't paid yet on Torch to date.)

maybe they are hoping some buyers who have not heard of the new rules will actually pay the december installment to take "advantage" of this payment "holiday" joke!

It will be something like this;



Got you worried yet? The 2 things that they will use to threaten you, progress (which is shit anyway) and compensation (which they haven't paid yet on Torch to date.)

Cayan have written a similar letter to silverene investors.asking them to continue to pay. SP were not going to pay compensation anyway they were going to deduct it from the fnal payment on handover according to torch investors.
If they threaten us we will all go to RERA. Perhaps then SP/SG may get taken overby class one developers like Nakheel or Emaar. That is the word floating around in dubai real estate market.If we get letters from SP demanding payments despite Rera ruling we will have to form a group.:bash:

RERA was very clear in saying that both developers/banks should not ask for/accept payments from investors unless certain conditions are met. they also said if developers don't agree with these rules, they should go to court.

so this means simply put, any developer not meeting the conditions set by RERA for further payments would need a court order to demand further payments from investors.

after todays news that RERA is planning even more strict rules to regulate developers, it's clear that RERA will bring down the hammer very hard on any developer not taking them seriously!

more regulation from RERA coming.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090106/BUSINESS/915761388

Cayan have written a similar letter to silverene investors.asking them to continue to pay. SP were not going to pay compensation anyway they were going to deduct it from the fnal payment on handover according to torch investors.
If they threaten us we will all go to RERA. Perhaps then SP/SG may get taken overby class one developers like Nakheel or Emaar. That is the word floating around in dubai real estate market.If we get letters from SP demanding payments despite Rera ruling we will have to form a group.:bash:

2 points there that are worth clarifying. The Cayan letter went out to all customers and reasured everyone that they were in good financial health. There are no Silverene investors that I'm aware of that are threatening to withold payments due to lack of progress.

Nakheel and possibly Emaar are in bad shape financialy so don't go hanging your hopes there. Emaar have a load of apartments and massive malls sitting empty with not enough rental income. Nakheel are cancelling all over the place and are rumoured to be unable to fund the refunds.

If theres a problem with SP, what happends too us in the worse case??

our money safe or gone?

If theres a problem with SP, what happends too us in the worse case??

our money safe or gone?

money should be safe as it is not with SP but in escrow account.Any thoughts people.:ohno:

who is the owner of the SP?

If theres a problem with SP, what happends too us in the worse case??

our money safe or gone?

Think this is thinking too far ahead and is too pessimistic for time being. Not helpful in creating concern along these lines at present. There is no drama as yet or sign of it only rumour and speculation.

The BC development is owned by BCD which I think is a separate company in the SP Group. The Escrow arrangement for BC gives us some protection. Reckon another developer could pick up the site plus remaining funds in escrow account and complete if BCD or SP Group went bust. The authorities in Dubai will not want us to be ripped off as it will create a bad image. Looks like the authorities have considerable powers to take action. BC is in a prestigious position in the marina and EMAAR, the master developer, will want it completed.

Construction progress on both towers has been ramped up recently which is a very positive sign of a change in approach. (my and others recent photos on this site show evidence of this) :) Russell Hayes said this would happen and it has so, hey, give them some credit. Things have been slow but they are moving quicker now. Perhaps not quick enough (but we don't know this for certain) but much quicker than past. Early progress was slow re Torch but this is now proceeding at quite some pace.

You can't blame SP/BCD for wanting to collect payments in accordance with the contract terms because we all signed up to this. Sounds like most other developers have done the same. It can be seen as being positive for us as BCD have plenty of cash already in the bank to fund progress. Our bitch is slow progress which hopefully they are now starting to remedy.

Clearly RERA are now starting to dictate to BCD and others what they can and cannot do which is great from our point of view. This is an IMPORTANT point and is very reassuring.

We should wait until SP/BCD respond to the latest RERA announcement re matching progress with payments. This announcement will have given SP major issues to consider not necessarily for BC development because a lot of money has already been collected but for newer developments where it hasn't. I expect a separate company is set up for each development so they should be financially independent of each other. Problems with one shouldn't affect another.

The announcement may well encourage BCD to speed up even further so RERA don't wrap their knuckles or ask them to hand cash back.

SP/BCD have been asked by more than one person for a response to the latest RERA announcement. A response should be expected shortly ie within a week I expect. This should give us more clues and information. I live 5 miles from their offices so I can call in to see them if necessary.

I reckon we should all log our concerns with RERA because they are the only ones who have the real authority to pressure action if pressure is needed.

Copy of letter I recently sent to Mr.Russel Hayes

Dear Mr.Russel Hayes,

Thank you very much for your letter.
According recent situation with very slow construction progress with Bay Central development and recent RERA announcments your proposed payment holiday looks not sufficient taking into account project delay for one year - such delay causes big loss not only for us but for all other your clients.
At present we made about 70% instalment to compare with less 5% completion of construction.
From RERA:

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

From that come question:
1.Are you ready to pay back difference from ammount overpaid (70%) till 20% of contract value?
2.Or you have other proposals?

Also would be nice to have copy of confirmation of escrow account.

Best regards,

Armandas Burba