Think this is thinking too far ahead and is too pessimistic for time being. Not helpful in creating concern along these lines at present. There is no drama as yet or sign of it only rumour and speculation.

The BC development is owned by BCD which I think is a separate company in the SP Group. The Escrow arrangement for BC gives us some protection. Reckon another developer could pick up the site plus remaining funds in escrow account and complete if BCD or SP Group went bust. The authorities in Dubai will not want us to be ripped off as it will create a bad image. Looks like the authorities have considerable powers to take action. BC is in a prestigious position in the marina and EMAAR, the master developer, will want it completed.

Construction progress on both towers has been ramped up recently which is a very positive sign of a change in approach. (my and others recent photos on this site show evidence of this) :) Russell Hayes said this would happen and it has so, hey, give them some credit. Things have been slow but they are moving quicker now. Perhaps not quick enough (but we don't know this for certain) but much quicker than past. Early progress was slow re Torch but this is now proceeding at quite some pace.

You can't blame SP/BCD for wanting to collect payments in accordance with the contract terms because we all signed up to this. Sounds like most other developers have done the same. It can be seen as being positive for us as BCD have plenty of cash already in the bank to fund progress. Our bitch is slow progress which hopefully they are now starting to remedy.

Clearly RERA are now starting to dictate to BCD and others what they can and cannot do which is great from our point of view. This is an IMPORTANT point and is very reassuring.

We should wait until SP/BCD respond to the latest RERA announcement re matching progress with payments. This announcement will have given SP major issues to consider not necessarily for BC development because a lot of money has already been collected but for newer developments where it hasn't. I expect a separate company is set up for each development so they should be financially independent of each other. Problems with one shouldn't affect another.

The announcement may well encourage BCD to speed up even further so RERA don't wrap their knuckles or ask them to hand cash back.

SP/BCD have been asked by more than one person for a response to the latest RERA announcement. A response should be expected shortly ie within a week I expect. This should give us more clues and information. I live 5 miles from their offices so I can call in to see them if necessary.

I reckon we should all log our concerns with RERA because they are the only ones who have the real authority to pressure action if pressure is needed.

slowhand we also signed up to the contract that SP will hand over our units in december 2009.so yes we can blame SP for wanting further payments.You and I know that BC is not going to be ready before 2012.
SP have sent letters to The Point investrors that they will be handing over the units starting from march 2009.I have been upto Point last week.point investors will be lucky if units are handed over before December 2009.
I do not even want to hazard a guess regarding the Aquatine or botanica:ohno:

slowhand we also signed up to the contract that SP will hand over our units in december 2009.so yes we can blame SP for wanting further payments.You and I know that BC is not going to be ready before 2012.
SP have sent letters to The Point investrors that they will be handing over the units starting from march 2009.I have been upto Point last week.point investors will be lucky if units are handed over before December 2009.
I do not even want to hazard a guess regarding the Aquatine or botanica:ohno:

I understand your point of view. I suppose I am saying SP/BCD are no worse than many developers in being late with delivery and collecting payments in accordance with the contract. I think almost every developer has been doing this. EMAAR did this on my JBR apartment which was very late.

Our loss on BC is related to late delivery. At least they are getting their finger out now and have upped build rate. They are saying that each tower is not that substantial ie smallish footprint and not too high so should be quick to build compared with other projects.

Personally I am not that bothered about paying in accordance with the contract or receiving compensation as long as they complete by say summer 2011. The end result for all of us should be fantastic ie great location, not paid that much, very saleable or rentable. Based on my recent visits I think the marina area and BC in particular is going to be a very enviable place to own property.

Also our experience with BC seems no different than Torch. So all in all if they deliver summer 2011 or thereabouts although we have some complaints I for one will be happy.

But we have to keep the pressure on SP/BCD and I think we should all complain to RERA.

I am glad I have not invested in their more recent projects such as Aquataine or Botanica because the new rules will have a greater impact on the cashflows of these projects putting them at greater risk. As we all know cash is king at present.

The fact that many projects will be cancelled or postponed now will help support the value of our investment in BC.

By the way SP are saying today that RERA haven't written to them about the rules ie they are not one of the 100 that have been written to. They had no notice of the announcement. They like us have only see the articles in the press. They are seeking clarification from RERA right now but see the move as being necessary, positive for them in the medium term and the market generally.

I am reassured by
- they have upped build rate recently. Our experience is no worse than Torch or the Point. Progress on these is now satisfactory
- RERA are now making significant new moves to protect our interests
- I think the authorities will not let us get ripped off

I cant believe SP did not get a letter from RERA.SP were first ones to implement the law regarding us paying 1% regarding land registration.I still dont know why we havent had any confirmation from SP that registration has been done.Also why no receipts was issued on receipt of money. dont forget this money did not go into an escrow account but staright into SP/SG account.i had rung SP about issue of receipt but was fobbed off very politely that we will just get our registration certificate.
I agree with you regarding the site and location of BC.
once completed (hopefully keep fingers crossed) it will be a excellent location.But if the prposed Hotel construction starts at a later stage pele living in West and Central Tower will be looking at a buildng site for 24 months and having to listen to constant building work noise.Dont forget SP have not made any comments about the east tower recently.

this what i think is gonna happen : -

there gonna build the central and west towers completley by 2011

but we will be waiting for the hotel too complete so we can get handover, so another year or two

separate handover??

look at marina quays west tower is completly finished, but not east or north.. and investors are waiting for them to complete before any handover

it was 5.6AED = £1 could it be the pound bouncing back?

this what i think is gonna happen : -

there gonna build the central and west towers completley by 2011

but we will be waiting for the hotel too complete so we can get handover, so another year or two

separate handover??

look at marina quays west tower is completly finished, but not east or north.. and investors are waiting for them to complete before any handover

it was 5.6AED = £1 could it be the pound bouncing back?

SP say that only access to the site at present, given it is 15 meters or so below the road level, is via the place where the hotel is going which is exactly what is happening. They say once the 2 towers are more substantial they will be able to reroute the access and so be able to work on the hotel.

I can see if they don't do this quickly and put lots of resources on the hotel then a substantial delay could result.

Hopefully they will pull their finger out. I reckon we'll be able to judge this by the end of Feb.

They have taken action recently to speed up the build. Maybe they will hit their targets now? At least there is a chance.

They will be responding to the RERA annoucement. They have to. It is a few months re next payment so a couple of weeks for a reponse is not critical.

SP have acknowledged today to me their communication is inadequate and say they are now working on improving it.

that's funny, now that RERA started cracking down on developers, they will work on "improving" themselves !!


SP have acknowledged today to me their communication is inadequate and say they are now working on improving it.

Dont count on too much. SP are making huge cut backs in staff and cutting costs. The whole Select Group operation will be getting smaller this year.

I am wondering which one of their projects will get cancelled first?

Dont count on too much. SP are making huge cut backs in staff and cutting costs. The whole Select Group operation will be getting smaller this year.

I am wondering which one of their projects will get cancelled first?
West Avenue I think.Looking at botanica last week it was a hole in the ground with no activity.Off curse people who bought in west avenue and botanica would by now have paid at least 20%. So SP cannot ask for anymore per RERA ruling.:ohno:

they already cancelled Royal Gulf in RAK!! Dont count on too much. SP are making huge cut backs in staff and cutting costs. The whole Select Group operation will be getting smaller this year.

I am wondering which one of their projects will get cancelled first?

SP say that only access to the site at present, given it is 15 meters or so below the road level, is via the place where the hotel is going which is exactly what is happening. They say once the 2 towers are more substantial they will be able to reroute the access and so be able to work on the hotel.

I can see if they don't do this quickly and put lots of resources on the hotel then a substantial delay could result.

Hopefully they will pull their finger out. I reckon we'll be able to judge this by the end of Feb.

They have taken action recently to speed up the build. Maybe they will hit their targets now? At least there is a chance.

They will be responding to the RERA annoucement. They have to. It is a few months re next payment so a couple of weeks for a reponse is not critical.

SP have acknowledged today to me their communication is inadequate and say they are now working on improving it.

Most towers in marina were started 15 Meters below road level.
It doesnt fill me with confidence that project planners did not realise that entry route is going to be where the hotel is going to be.
Mind Boggles with replies SP are giving.:nuts:

Dont count on too much. SP are making huge cut backs in staff and cutting costs. The whole Select Group operation will be getting smaller this year.

I am wondering which one of their projects will get cancelled first?

Maybe none if he sells MST7 he has advertised, poss asset dumping!

Dont count on too much. SP are making huge cut backs in staff and cutting costs. The whole Select Group operation will be getting smaller this year.

I am wondering which one of their projects will get cancelled first?


^^ If they weren't doing this I would be worried.

SP are clearly a strong company at the moment as all their cash flow is inwards. The problem may come when they have collected the 90% have no more income only to find that they have not enough in the coffers to complete the project. That scenario is a long way off.

To ensure they don't hit that problem in the future they have to control spending now and work within strict budgets. Accelerating the project can improve financial efficiency by reducing the overhead time costs so speed helps to reduce costs.

I'll just repeat that for DS/SP benefit, SPEED HELPS TO REDUCE COSTS.

that's funny, now that RERA started cracking down on developers, they will work on "improving" themselves !!

SP have just told Slowhand they have not received any letter from RERA. Glover maybe SP are trying to improve themselves from goodness of their heart:lol: Or they have been scanning thru torch site with a lot of investors furious the way SP are behaving.:bash:

SP have reduced there cost by buying cheap kitchen units for the Point, from MFI closing down sale.. :lol:

Accelerating the project can improve financial efficiency by reducing the overhead time costs so speed helps to reduce costs.

I'll just repeat that for DS/SP benefit, SPEED HELPS TO REDUCE COSTS.


How do they accelarate the project without throwing more money at it ?

If labour costs are dictated by man hours then a slow progress speed helps the projecct financialy as more funds will stay in interest baring accounts and thus earn SP more income.

When you say overhead time are you talking about hardware like cranes hoists genersters ect being on site for longer?

Also dont SP have a fixed price contract with DCE for the construction?

If they do then what leverage do they hold with DCE?

If They take 2 years to complete then only 2 years costs for their offices, electricity, salaries, retained design staff, inspectors, project managers, quantity surveyors etc etc. The cost of all these items are time related and not bourne by DCE.

If they take 4 years then the bill doubles, so how much have they allowed in the budget? The answer to that question is probably in the timescales they quoted on your contracts. Delays cost money even if DCE are not paid any more.

jAN 2008

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5935/imresolt139fr4.jpg

jAN 2009

http://i42.tinypic.com/353b1br.jpg

LETS SEE WHAT JAN 2010 LOOKS LIKE

^^ If they weren't doing this I would be worried.

SP are clearly a strong company at the moment as all their cash flow is inwards. The problem may come when they have collected the 90% have no more income only to find that they have not enough in the coffers to complete the project. That scenario is a long way off.

To ensure they don't hit that problem in the future they have to control spending now and work within strict budgets. Accelerating the project can improve financial efficiency by reducing the overhead time costs so speed helps to reduce costs.

I'll just repeat that for DS/SP benefit, SPEED HELPS TO REDUCE COSTS.

these comments make a lot of sense to me and undoubtedly SP/BCD will understand them. Also the new RERA rules mean that in order to collect more funds from investors collection must be aligned with build progress now. So they have to get on with it or it won't make financial sense and they are likely to be in some sort of trouble.

Build rate has picked up on West and Central Towers over the last few weeks which is a very positive sign from where we were. We should closely monitor this over the coming weeks.

As many of the contributors to this thread have observed there has been a significant increase in activity on the Bay Central site in the last couple of weeks – hopefully setting a positive precedent for the coming weeks and months as progress towards the milestones that were communicated by the developer at the end of last year becomes visible.

I can confirm that Bay Central will be constructed as one simultaneous development, although as you can see each of the three towers is progressing at different rates. The raft has recently been poured for the west tower and at least one pour has been competed on the central tower. Shoring is also complete for the east tower which will contain the hotel, although this is currently hidden by the access route to the site. The piling permit for the east tower is set to be awarded shortly, from which point progress on each of the plots will start to converge. Once the basements and podium have been constructed, we understand that the main structures will rise more or less together, although it is likely that internal finishing in the residential towers will be completed before the hotel tower.

As you are aware the developer, Select Group is confident that progress on site will continue apace which is why presently they have only offered short term relief on payments. That being said, they are closely co-ordinating their strategies on all active developments with RERA and will remain accountable for the balance between construction progress and payment collection. I am sure many of you have read in the local press about mooted changes to the guidelines under which all developers are allowed to operate. The reality is that nothing has changed in the law yet, however there’s no question that the government has strengthened the role of its institutions of accountability as a response to the downturn in investor confidence. We will continue to monitor the regulatory landscape through direct consultation and will certainly notify you of any changes that are formally confirmed to us.

Of course we understand why investors have become concerned about the slow progress of this development, especially since the UAE fell victim to the downturn in global financial markets in the later months of last year. There’s no question now that the economic durability of The UAE is being put to the test, but we are not alone in standing by the long-term prospects of Dubai; with its high travel demand, investment in infrastructure, and diversified economy, we are convinced that Dubai has all the attributes to recover and would urge all investors to look beyond the short-term difficulties. Uncertainty is keeping many investors out of the market at the moment and levels of lending (although always low) appear to have dropped off almost completely, therefore the secondary market has stagnated and values are suffering. However, by the time Bay Central is completed we believe that the true value of properties on Dubai Marina will be restored and the decision of investors to commit to this development at the time they did and stay with it through some market turbulence will pay off.

Against this backdrop, Select Group is well capitalised with no substantial borrowings and they have no intention of cancelling any active projects. That being said, clearly there is no room for complacency and everyone is keeping a close eye on the short-term impact of the recent months which will inform long-term plans. All Select Group’s projects under construction are more or less fully sold and therefore financially self-sufficient, provided investors remain committed. We are seeing more buyers than ever are looking to consolidate their positions and reduce their exposure which is something we need to monitor closely. It would seem far-fetched at this stage however to expect a detrimental percentage of buyers to withdraw from the market altogether.

At Select Property we have experienced the same downturn in sales opportunities which is affecting everyone, however we are channeling our energies into communicating with existing purchasers more frequently and openly and in more detail. We know that confidence has been eroded by recent events, this is not something that we are happy about and we intend to change it. To that end I will return to this forum on a regular basis to update you and respond to questions that are posed here with the views of Select Property.

As many of the contributors to this thread have observed there has been a significant increase in activity on the Bay Central site in the last couple of weeks – hopefully setting a positive precedent for the coming weeks and months as progress towards the milestones that were communicated by the developer at the end of last year becomes visible.
Agreed...progress and staffing definately increased and hopefully will continue.


I can confirm that Bay Central will be constructed as one simultaneous development, although as you can see each of the three towers is progressing at different rates. The raft has recently been poured for the west tower and at least one pour has been competed on the central tower. Shoring is also complete for the east tower which will contain the hotel, although this is currently hidden by the access route to the site. The piling permit for the east tower is set to be awarded shortly, from which point progress on each of the plots will start to converge. Once the basements and podium have been constructed, we understand that the main structures will rise more or less together, although it is likely that internal finishing in the residential towers will be completed before the hotel tower.
Terms like "we undertsand" do not inspire confidence. You either know or don't. Remember we pass all our hard earned cash over to you...not "the developer".
Why are you now always seperating both companies in your communications all the time?


As you are aware the developer, Select Group is confident that progress on site will continue apace which is why presently they have only offered short term relief on payments. That being said, they are closely co-ordinating their strategies on all active developments with RERA and will remain accountable for the balance between construction progress and payment collection. I am sure many of you have read in the local press about mooted changes to the guidelines under which all developers are allowed to operate. The reality is that nothing has changed in the law yet, however there’s no question that the government has strengthened the role of its institutions of accountability as a response to the downturn in investor confidence. We will continue to monitor the regulatory landscape through direct consultation and will certainly notify you of any changes that are formally confirmed to us.
The main issue for you here is not if RERA has changed the rules. It is the fact that all your investors are disgusted by the treatment recieved from you and the developer [Select] that they are attempting to find solutions to the finacial problems on their own. Grasping at the RERA news story is an example of our desperation to sort the problem. Personally i think you should show initiative and answer the concerns of your investors by increasing the payment holiday to at least 9 months. Don't wait to be forced...act now. That would inspire massive confidence in you and show us it is not just rhetoric.
Please comment on this point!
Also...do you think investors will forget your stance when it comes to buying furniture, renting out their accomadation, handover, etc after completion? Act now and let us move forward together.


Of course we understand why investors have become concerned about the slow progress of this development, especially since the UAE fell victim to the downturn in global financial markets in the later months of last year. There’s no question now that the economic durability of The UAE is being put to the test, but we are not alone in standing by the long-term prospects of Dubai; with its high travel demand, investment in infrastructure, and diversified economy, we are convinced that Dubai has all the attributes to recover and would urge all investors to look beyond the short-term difficulties. Uncertainty is keeping many investors out of the market at the moment and levels of lending (although always low) appear to have dropped off almost completely, therefore the secondary market has stagnated and values are suffering. However, by the time Bay Central is completed we believe that the true value of properties on Dubai Marina will be restored and the decision of investors to commit to this development at the time they did and stay with it through some market turbulence will pay off.

Against this backdrop, Select Group is well capitalised with no substantial borrowings and they have no intention of cancelling any active projects. That being said, clearly there is no room for complacency and everyone is keeping a close eye on the short-term impact of the recent months which will inform long-term plans. All Select Group’s projects under construction are more or less fully sold and therefore financially self-sufficient, provided investors remain committed. We are seeing more buyers than ever are looking to consolidate their positions and reduce their exposure which is something we need to monitor closely. It would seem far-fetched at this stage however to expect a detrimental percentage of buyers to withdraw from the market altogether.
People would be able to stay longer if you increase their payment break. Select's one year delay is forcing people out. Help them stay with you. Help them to help your position. Increase the payment break. It is a vicious circle. By refusing to act now and help us effectively you could do your self damage in the long term.


At Select Property we have experienced the same downturn in sales opportunities which is affecting everyone, however we are channeling our energies into communicating with existing purchasers more frequently and openly and in more detail. We know that confidence has been eroded by recent events, this is not something that we are happy about and we intend to change it. To that end I will return to this forum on a regular basis to update you and respond to questions that are posed here with the views of Select Property.

The main point running through your full bulletin is confidence. Confidence in the market, confidence in Dubai, confidence in Select. You will need to regain our confidence and respect. It appears now you are just another shyster company that refuses to act with the mass of their clients. I believe if you resolve this problem the rest will follow as people will sit quietly and confidently. I applaud your initiative to return to the forum on a regular basis but please do address the concerns and please don't act like a politcian by being evasive and vague.
Will you attempt to increase the payment break regardless of RERA purely to help us?
What is happening with the registration process? Have they been registerd yet?
Why am i being refused access to MY escrow account and are you hiding something by this refusal?
Can you post some photos on this site please?
Thanks...

Back to you

Agreed...progress and staffing definately increased and hopefully will continue.


Terms like "we undertsand" do not inspire confidence. You either know or don't. Remember we pass all our hard earned cash over to you...not "the developer".
Why are you now always seperating both companies in your communications all the time?


The main issue for you here is not if RERA has changed the rules. It is the fact that all your investors are disgusted by the treatment recieved from you and the developer [Select] that they are attempting to find solutions to the finacial problems on their own. Grasping at the RERA news story is an example of our desperation to sort the problem. Personally i think you should show initiative and answer the concerns of your investors by increasing the payment holiday to at least 9 months. Don't wait to be forced...act now. That would inspire massive confidence in you and show us it is not just rhetoric.
Please comment on this point!
Also...do you think investors will forget your stance when it comes to buying furniture, renting out their accomadation, handover, etc after completion? Act now and let us move forward together.


People would be able to stay longer if you increase their payment break. Select's one year delay is forcing people out. Help them stay with you. Help them to help your position. Increase the payment break. It is a vicious circle. By refusing to act now and help us effectively you could do your self damage in the long term.



The main point running through your full bulletin is confidence. Confidence in the market, confidence in Dubai, confidence in Select. You will need to regain our confidence and respect. It appears now you are just another shyster company that refuses to act with the mass of their clients. I believe if you resolve this problem the rest will follow as people will sit quietly and confidently. I applaud your initiative to return to the forum on a regular basis but please do address the concerns and please don't act like a politcian by being evasive and vague.
Will you attempt to increase the payment break regardless of RERA purely to help us?
What is happening with the registration process? Have they been registerd yet?
Why am i being refused access to MY escrow account and are you hiding something by this refusal?
Can you post some photos on this site please?
Thanks...

Back to you

Thanks SP for the post.

Good reply DxbPC you make some great points. I support your comments. Why don't BCD reply instead of SP?

Looks like the key issue is if a significant number of existing investors want out then SP/BCD will have the challenge of filling the financial gap until completion when resales will be more likely in the current economic environment.

REASONS TO STAY INVESTED
Regarding rentability, I have no difficulty renting out my 1 bed in JBR at 140,000 pa cash up front and expect I would get slightly more in BC because of better position. For those who will want to live in BC, the views will be fantastic. The beach is 2 min walk away and there are a growing number of shops and restaurants in the JBR complex. There are already restaurants open around the marina and there will be a lot more when BC is complete. There will also be a hotel on site. Where else can you find a combination of marina, beach, shops/restaurants, tax free environment if you are working or tax resident at such a modest price?

I would expect places like Dubai to be amongst the first to recover from the "credit crunch".

As a minimum SP/BCD need to get their finger out and complete ASAP. This will solve their problems and ours. The new RERA rules mean there is now no sense them not getting on with it.

MESSAGE TO SP/BCD - JUST DO IT

SP have confirmed they have processed the registration of my BC properties.

Presumably I will get confirmation from the Land Reg in due course.

SP have confirmed they have processed the registration of my BC properties.

Presumably I will get confirmation from the Land Reg in due course.

Great.
Anyone any recent photos

From DM thread! Thanks to Desert Diver for some awesome pics!

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/skyline4_qa.jpg

:cheers:True Blue
if you are back in Dubai could you post some new pics of BC please.see if SP are progressing as they said on ssc.

:cheers:True Blue
if you are back in Dubai could you post some new pics of BC please.see if SP are progressing as they said on ssc.


Went along for a look but you won't like my findings.

Site is the untidiest site I have ever seen. The workers mainly stand around and chat all day and no one seems to take resposibilty for organisation. There seems to be no middle management or gangers/foremen etc directing the men.

The worst thing is that by 4pm they are all out on the street waiting for the bus to arrive. This is not just BC but also the Point and Marina Quays, basicaly all DCE sites.

Pics to follow, imageshack is playing up.

by True Blue:)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7713/dsc00506df8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6369/dsc00507os3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3432/dsc00508kk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2207/dsc00530vt3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^True Blue/Imre - thanks for the great update!

Here is a pano from the pics. Gives a good idea about the size of the plot.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zqrh1t.jpg

[QUOTE=Imre;30711536]by True Blue:)

thanks TB & Imre for the pics. DCE have made visible progress over last week including the central tower which to a construction lay person is reassuring (see my last pics for a comparison) :) Agreed site does look untidy.

Went along for a look but you won't like my findings.

Site is the untidiest site I have ever seen. The workers mainly stand around and chat all day and no one seems to take resposibilty for organisation. There seems to be no middle management or gangers/foremen etc directing the men.

The worst thing is that by 4pm they are all out on the street waiting for the bus to arrive. This is not just BC but also the Point and Marina Quays, basicaly all DCE sites.

Pics to follow, imageshack is playing up.

thanks TB/imre
great pics.On my visit to bc over Xmas/new years i had the same feeling that a lot of workers were sitting around or waiting for a bus at 5 pm.i did go nearly everyday for 2 weeks . i am sad like that. i then looked at the amount of activity on silverene site which was a total contrast to BC. lots of workers and foremen and everyone working.
wait and watch what SP do.:cheers:

Went along for a look but you won't like my findings.

Site is the untidiest site I have ever seen. The workers mainly stand around and chat all day and no one seems to take resposibilty for organisation. There seems to be no middle management or gangers/foremen etc directing the men.


Perhaps, a taste of things to come in terms of the quality of the building and its overall finish. I personally envisage it to be very inferior - a big waste to this prime marina location.

they gonna pour between them red bits??

anyone have any idea's

Went along for a look but you won't like my findings.

Site is the untidiest site I have ever seen. The workers mainly stand around and chat all day and no one seems to take resposibilty for organisation. There seems to be no middle management or gangers/foremen etc directing the men.

The worst thing is that by 4pm they are all out on the street waiting for the bus to arrive. This is not just BC but also the Point and Marina Quays, basicaly all DCE sites.

Pics to follow, imageshack is playing up.
When did you go along for a look? I thought you travelled back to Scotland on 30th January. Almost certain you were in Scotland yesterday!
While we appreciate your constant opinions on this site, more so because you have no genuine interest, it would be nice now and agian for some positive stuff from you. As a laymen with no understanding of construction other than watching skyscapers in Dubai i would say the progress over the last few weeks is encouraging to say the least and also that this site is no different from 95% of all others in Dubai. There are a few exceptions of course.
Look at the state of affairs even now at Dorra with your apartment. But do you know what...eventually it will be great as will BC and the full marina area.
Try being positve sometimes...doesn't hurt!

When did you go along for a look? I thought you travelled back to Scotland on 30th January. Almost certain you were in Scotland yesterday!
While we appreciate your constant opinions on this site, more so because you have no genuine interest, it would be nice now and agian for some positive stuff from you. As a laymen with no understanding of construction other than watching skyscapers in Dubai i would say the progress over the last few weeks is encouraging to say the least and also that this site is no different from 95% of all others in Dubai. There are a few exceptions of course.
Look at the state of affairs even now at Dorra with your apartment. But do you know what...eventually it will be great as will BC and the full marina area.
Try being positve sometimes...doesn't hurt!

No idea what you are alluding to with my Dorrabay apartment.

As for Bay Central, you could be right and I could be wrong, only time will tell. I have been as unbiased as possible on this thread but I have to admit to being a little weary now. There is very little of interest happening here and my gut feeling is that handover is unlikely to be before 2013 now.

Accepting the problem with the Hotel approval, there is plenty of work available to the contractor, they are just not responding. Insufficient resources and short hours lead to very late deliveries.

No doubt you will receive some comforting words from Giles soon to satisfy your craving for positive upbeat promises. But as we all agree, it is action that speaks louder than words.

true blue you are right i have been following this thread for sometime and come to the conclusion that sp are only intrested in taking our money. progress on this and all sp sites is crap(all running behind schedule). If they were really sorry for delays they should have payment holiday for 12 months.
I'm well f***ed off

No idea what you are alluding to with my Dorrabay apartment.

As for Bay Central, you could be right and I could be wrong, only time will tell. I have been as unbiased as possible on this thread but I have to admit to being a little weary now. There is very little of interest happening here and my gut feeling is that handover is unlikely to be before 2013 now
Accepting the problem with the Hotel approval, there is plenty of work available to the contractor, they are just not responding. Insufficient resources and short hours lead to very late deliveries.

No doubt you will receive some comforting words from Giles soon to satisfy your craving for positive upbeat promises. But as we all agree, [B]it is action that speaks louder than words..

ok.

^^It’s the 14th January 09 today. :bash:Bay Central is very messy & disorganised..... why are you shooting the messenger?:ohno:

some people are very passionate about there investment...^^^^

No idea what you are alluding to with my Dorrabay apartment.

As for Bay Central, you could be right and I could be wrong, only time will tell. I have been as unbiased as possible on this thread but I have to admit to being a little weary now. There is very little of interest happening here and my gut feeling is that handover is unlikely to be before 2013 now.

Accepting the problem with the Hotel approval, there is plenty of work available to the contractor, they are just not responding. Insufficient resources and short hours lead to very late deliveries.

No doubt you will receive some comforting words from Giles soon to satisfy your craving for positive upbeat promises. But as we all agree, it is action that speaks louder than words.

TB clearly has much more construction knowledge than us. His comments about tidyness and lack of supervision ring true. He tells it as it is and we should be grateful for that.

His ongoing comments would be most helpful.

There are some panic selling here, some units are advertised at alineah for 10% below the original price.

Yes there is lots of panic selling happening everywhere. There are so many good deals to be found for completed properties that selling an off plan property will be very difficult unless it is absolutely bargain basement.

There are some panic selling here, some units are advertised at alineah for 10% below the original price.

no 1 bed or studios BC properties listed here. I've just checked at alineah.com. If you meant elsewhere in the marina be more precise in what you say.

Yes there is lots of panic selling happening everywhere. There are so many good deals to be found for completed properties that selling an off plan property will be very difficult unless it is absolutely bargain basement.

With onset of credit crunch prices are bound to reduce and some owners will want to sell. This doesn't amount to panic selling. Given the large number of properties in Dubai at any one time there are bound to be lots for sale - in good times and less good times.

The slow down in the launch of new projects will clearly help support the prices of existing property. The rental market is quite bouyant which is a good sign that people still want to work and live in Dubai.

no 1 bed or studios BC properties listed here. I've just checked at alineah.com. If you meant elsewhere in the marina be more precise in what you say.

I am very precise in what i said. There are 2 units at alineah website if you check right now, one is 828sqft and the other is 935 sq ft and both are advertised at 10% below the original price.One of them is urgent sale.

With onset of credit crunch prices are bound to reduce and some owners will want to sell. This doesn't amount to panic selling. Given the large number of properties in Dubai at any one time there are bound to be lots for sale - in good times and less good times.

The slow down in the launch of new projects will clearly help support the prices of existing property. The rental market is quite bouyant which is a good sign that people still want to work and live in Dubai.



Keep telling yourself all that slowhand just as long as it makes you feel better. You are deluding yourself.

I have been offered deals on BC units for less than launch prices in this very forum. (mentioning no names).

Facts are, you own an investment that requires funding that has increased in cost by 25% (if you are UK based) over the last few months, and you will be staring at a hole in the ground for all of 2009.

You wont get your keys on this project until 2013. Take a look around the world and look at what you could do with your cash as an investment now, with a time frame of 4 years.

BC = Very poor investment choice
BC = Very nice place to live in 5 years time

It's no use slagging of True Blue's comments either just cause it makes you feel bad. His construction knowledge is usually spot on.

Keep telling yourself all that slowhand just as long as it makes you feel better. You are deluding yourself.

I have been offered deals on BC units for less than launch prices in this very forum. (mentioning no names).

Facts are, you own an investment that requires funding that has increased in cost by 25% (if you are UK based) over the last few months, and you will be staring at a hole in the ground for all of 2009.

You wont get your keys on this project until 2013. Take a look around the world and look at what you could do with your cash as an investment now, with a time frame of 4 years.

BC = Very poor investment choice
BC = Very nice place to live in 5 years time

It's no use slagging of True Blue's comments either just cause it makes you feel bad. His construction knowledge is usually spot on.

When did Slowhand slag off TB?

This is what slowhand said:

TB clearly has much more construction knowledge than us. His comments about tidyness and lack of supervision ring true. He tells it as it is and we should be grateful for that.

His ongoing comments would be most helpful.

BTW yes I agree BC will be a great place to live in 5 years time, but I strongly disagree it was a bad investment decision in my particular circumstances.

With onset of credit crunch prices are bound to reduce and some owners will want to sell. This doesn't amount to panic selling. Given the large number of properties in Dubai at any one time there are bound to be lots for sale - in good times and less good times.

The slow down in the launch of new projects will clearly help support the prices of existing property. The rental market is quite bouyant which is a good sign that people still want to work and live in Dubai.

^^ It is much more than a credit crunch in Dubai I am afraid. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the Dubai dream and I believe it will come true eventually which is why I am sitting tight on my investments with a 5 year+ view. Anyone thinking less than that shouldn't be investing in Dubai.

I have looked around and spoken to various people and this is what I see happening on the ground:

-Hords of people leaving from Dubai Airport, friends tell me it is virtually impossible to get tickets to the sub-continent. Ok theyare mostly labour and low paid workers but it all filters through. :yes:

-Sacked Expats desperate to sell their properties before their visa expires. Some selling at 2005 prices (I have seen these transactions). :yes:

-Perfectly good companies liek Arabtec are being run into the ground and their share price is approacing zero because Nakheel won't pay them. The huge receivables on their balance sheets would be a turn off for any bank even if there was no credit crisis. I hear they are struggling to refinance their loans. :dunno:

-Companies like Amlak and Tamweel which were supposed to support the property market couldn't even support themselves.:nuts:

-Smaller companies are also struggling, hear about the Businessman who cut off head which a chainsaw because banks wouldn't finance his ongoing projects? :bash:


-I hear EMAAR, AMLAK etc have many returned peoperties on their books, these will need to be liquidated at some stage and will not doubt affect the market further. :dunno:

-Evidence I have seen shows that rents have not gone up but have gone down. Companies I know are paying 10-15% less this year to house their employees than they did last year. :yes:

How much of the above is true I don't know but consider the credit crunch a pin that burst the Dubai bubble, a bubble which would have burst at some stage anyway but it is best to get it over with sooner rather than later.

Apart from the loss of life and individuals loosing their jobs this is just what Dubai needed to happen. A tree shake to get rid of all the rotten stuff.

Once the dust has settled and property/rents are more realistic those companies that dismissed Dubai due to high costs will rethink their strategy. Some of the bigger government projects will start coming online (Metro, Tram, Dubailand etc). Liquidity will return to the markets. We will then see the next leg up in a leaner, stronger Dubai (Elliot Wave anyone?). Only difference being that it will be a more transparent and regulated end user/Long term Investor driven market and it is then that I will consider moving to Dubai myself :)

Hopefully by then the government will have realised there is only so much revenue they can generate by using a million stealth taxes and replace them all with a fair and transparent VAT/GST !

Those are my views so shoot me down if you need to!

..................and when people start putting the following terms into Google search you know things are going to go from bad to worse before they get better !

"loan defaulter uae"

"if unable to pay personal loan in dubai"

"loan defaulter in abu dhabi commercial bank"

"take loan and run away from dubai"

"can you leave dubai with loan default"

"what will happen if i default loan in du"

"what a joke dubai is"

"personnal loans in dubai runaway"

"f***d real estate dubai"

"dubai loans default run away"

"how to defaulting loan dubai"

^^

Anjam,

This all seems a little depressing; although I don’t quite see it so bad on the ground…
I have been to the airport twice this week, first time in the evening then in the morning – certainly no busier than usual.
As for the sacked expats, there have only been some 3000 out of a million people laid off? Do you really think that is bad??? Also, since a significant proportion of expats rent as opposed to own, I think you’ve probably picked up on the rare examples of people that are desperate, who, regardless of credit crisis simply need to sell, no matter what.
Even in terms of rents going down, for every story I hear of them going down, I hear another story of them going up... in fact, one of my colleagues just received notification that her rent is going to increase significantly – enough to warrant her contacting RERA, as the increase is higher than the yearly cap (she lives in JBR).
even with commercial property, it’s almost impossible to find quality business space without going on a waiting list. We’re trying to find somewhere bigger and were told that there simply wasn’t anything available at the moment What about all these failed companies, you might ask? As soon as office space becomes available, it’s immediately snapped up by another company very keen to do business in Dubai.
Don’t get me wrong, I do think there has been a significant slowdown, but to a large extent, it really does feel like ‘business as usual’ rather than the catastrophic picture that’s portrayed of mass redundancies, suicides, people selling at throw-away prices, expats leaving the emirate in droves, people committing suicide.

Maybe I’m completely wrong, misguided, blinkered and living in my own bubble, I guess only time will tell…

When did Slowhand slag off TB?

I never suggested slowhand slagged off TB. Not all of my post was directed at slowhand, it was aimed at the wider Bay Central community also.

You should only realy butt into a conversation if you have something usefull to say sunny. I suggest reading a post a couple of times over in future just so you can absorb whats being discussed properly.

TB gets a lot of stick for giving his proffesional opinion on constuction matters from investors who dont know any better. I have been guilty of this myself in the past.

Here is one recent example.

When did you go along for a look? I thought you travelled back to Scotland on 30th January. Almost certain you were in Scotland yesterday!
While we appreciate your constant opinions on this site, more so because you have no genuine interest, it would be nice now and agian for some positive stuff from you. As a laymen with no understanding of construction other than watching skyscapers in Dubai i would say the progress over the last few weeks is encouraging to say the least and also that this site is no different from 95% of all others in Dubai. There are a few exceptions of course.
Look at the state of affairs even now at Dorra with your apartment. But do you know what...eventually it will be great as will BC and the full marina area.
Try being positve sometimes...doesn't hurt!


BTW yes I agree BC will be a great place to live in 5 years time, but I strongly disagree it was a bad investment decision in my particular circumstances.

I am glad your happy with your investment stategy.

Knowing what you paid for your Central tower 2 bed back when you signed up.
Knowing what it would sell for now (if you could sell it).
Knowing how long it will be before your unit is available to use.

Your definition of success in an investment context is clearly different from mine.

I never suggested slowhand slagged off TB. Not all of my post was directed at slowhand, it was aimed at the wider Bay Central community also.

You should only realy butt into a conversation if you have something usefull to say sunny. I suggest reading a post a couple of times over in future just so you can absorb whats being discussed properly.

TB gets a lot of stick for giving his proffesional opinion on constuction matters from investors who dont know any better. I have been guilty of this myself in the past.

Here is one recent example.





I am glad your happy with your investment stategy.

Knowing what you paid for your Central tower 2 bed back when you signed up.
Knowing what it would sell for now (if you could sell it).
Knowing how long it will be before your unit is available to use.

Your definition of success in an investment context is clearly different from mine.

As this is an open forum, I have every right to respond with anything that does not break the forum rules.

Yes, I know exactly how much I paid for my apartment in BC. I also know the exchange rate that was used on the day I transferred the money from sterling to aed.
I do not need to or ever want to sell - property is a long term investment for me.
Delays in Dubai are common - it has happened before to me, and it will happen in BC as well. One thing I have on my side is that compensation on BC will be paid quarterly, unlike your investments in the torch.

Now, how are your 2x 3 bed investments doing in the torch? Everything aok? I'd hate it if you sold out before we could have that drink! Oh and did you see the UK bank shares today? Let's hope nobody was following your expert advice on UK bank shares!

As this is an open forum, I have every right to respond with anything that does not break the forum rules.

Yes, I know exactly how much I paid for my apartment in BC. I also know the exchange rate that was used on the day I transferred the money from sterling to aed.
I do not need to or ever want to sell - property is a long term investment for me.
Delays in Dubai are common - it has happened before to me, and it will happen in BC as well. One thing I have on my side is that compensation on BC will be paid quarterly, unlike your investments in the torch.

Now, how are your 2x 3 bed investments doing in the torch? Everything aok? I'd hate it if you sold out before we could have that drink! Oh and did you see the UK bank shares today? Let's hope nobody was following your expert advice on UK bank shares!

Succesfull investments arn't usually judged by how you are compensated for their poor performance, but we have already established that our definitions of a succesfull investment do not match, so i'm happy that your compensation payments make your investment decision easier to justify.

Good for you.

If i were in your position i would be more concerned with how long compensation was going to be paid for rather than the frequency of its delivery. Fortunately i havn't factored in any compensation to my business plan so if anything gets paid it will be a bonus as far as i am concerned.

I wont be selling out as my 3 beds are an addition to an already thriving family holiday business, so yes i am very much looking forward to our drink.

I'm sure it will be fun.

My generic advice on UK Bank shares is that they hold good value for a long term investor. Long term being 4 years plus. The prospect of a 100% return on UK Bank shares proir to your keys being handed over at BC is still a recomendation that i would stand by.

^^

Anjam,

This all seems a little depressing; although I don’t quite see it so bad on the ground…
I have been to the airport twice this week, first time in the evening then in the morning – certainly no busier than usual.
As for the sacked expats, there have only been some 3000 out of a million people laid off? Do you really think that is bad??? Also, since a significant proportion of expats rent as opposed to own, I think you’ve probably picked up on the rare examples of people that are desperate, who, regardless of credit crisis simply need to sell, no matter what.
Even in terms of rents going down, for every story I hear of them going down, I hear another story of them going up... in fact, one of my colleagues just received notification that her rent is going to increase significantly – enough to warrant her contacting RERA, as the increase is higher than the yearly cap (she lives in JBR).
even with commercial property, it’s almost impossible to find quality business space without going on a waiting list. We’re trying to find somewhere bigger and were told that there simply wasn’t anything available at the moment What about all these failed companies, you might ask? As soon as office space becomes available, it’s immediately snapped up by another company very keen to do business in Dubai.
Don’t get me wrong, I do think there has been a significant slowdown, but to a large extent, it really does feel like ‘business as usual’ rather than the catastrophic picture that’s portrayed of mass redundancies, suicides, people selling at throw-away prices, expats leaving the emirate in droves, people committing suicide.

Maybe I’m completely wrong, misguided, blinkered and living in my own bubble, I guess only time will tell…

To be honest it did sound rather depressing when i read it back to myself. I suppose it depends who you talk to. I am very much reassured by your comment that you see it as business as usual. Maybe there are two sides to Dubai. On one side you have those that are related to the construction and real estate industry and I admit most of the people I have spoken fall into that category and then you have the rest. I have spent a lot of time in expat communities over the last few weeks and they don't paint a very good picture at all so it is all very confusing. Glad you are doing well though and best of Luck.

Just to add to the confusion......a friend of mine who was working in one of the top Accountancy firms in Dubai has packed his bags.In his own words'I cannot afford to live in Dubai anymore' Rents are too high and becoming unaffordable. Commodity prices are rising too.some are loving it whilst others have thrown the towel into the ring.

Just to add to the confusion......a friend of mine who was working in one of the top Accountancy firms in Dubai has packed his bags.In his own words'I cannot afford to live in Dubai anymore' Rents are too high and becoming unaffordable. Commodity prices are rising too.some are loving it whilst others have thrown the towel into the ring.

he should come to london where its so much better. :ohno:

by the time this building is finished it seems either the world will have ended or everythings back on track.

my view simply!!

BC & Torch = Very poor investment choice Short Term / Current Climate
BC & Torch = Very nice place to live and Great investment in 5 years Plus

So were both in the same Boat..

right hand side view from central tower wil be great..


http://i43.tinypic.com/9s6yi0.jpg

I agree with Beppe that BC will be a great place to live and also great long term investment.

Regarding all the stories of people leaving and firms goinf bust...it is happening all over the world and bo just Dubai. I think a correction of all things in Dubai is needed. I have been going to Dubai for 28 yrs now and to be honest i preferred it the way it was around 10 yrs ago. This crisis will force a rethink and settle things out to reasonable level. I know of someone that rented out a one bedroom in the jewel last week [unfurnished] for AED 140,000 per annum one cheque so things still looking good for rental market.

Regarding High Times comments on TB and the stick he recieves for his "professional comments" and he quotes my post as an example. High Times...what is TB's background and why do you hold him in such high regard. I have asked him for his details as he does sell himself as an expert but he has never answered. If people like you are going to revere him surely we should know his background. I come from the same area as him and i don't recall seeing any skyscrapers [or sites] ever.

Have all the developements TB invested in been handed over on time with no problems to speak of? or has he faced the same delays as us in his investements?

I will ask again though and give the benefit of the doubt. TB [or high times as you are a lover of all things TB] what do you do for a living, what high Tech buildings are you involved in, give us an example of some of your work to back up your plentifull supply of expert opinions on this site. I would hazard a guess and say that you may be educated in building but have never built anything like this. So how are you an expert?

^^
At the risk of coming across as condescending, which isn’t my intention at all, I think the investors from the Torch, and peripheral observers have the upper hand here – experience-wise, as we’ve been through what you’re going through with the same developer, although admittedly, to a lesser degree, what with the economic slowdown.
When problems first started emerging with the Torch project, a number of us were in denial, kidding ourselves that the developer would see us right. True Blue and others outlined what was happening – providing us with a reality check despite assurances from DS as they were formally known. True to form, he proved to be correct and they proved to be wrong.
Of course, this doesn’t mean anyone is automatically a technical expert, but he and others came under fire for providing accurate insight from people who found bad news very difficult to swallow – after all, for some of us, it’s our hard-earned savings!
On the point about credentials, if I was an expert in these matters and someone asked me to back-up my experience, I certainly wouldn’t feel I needed to, so long as the information I was providing was accurate after the test of time.
One small point, the absence of skyscrapers in Scotland doesn’t mean a thing. Some of the finest architects and engineers in say Dubai or other places like Hong Kong are British, although I doubt London or any other UK city can claim to be land of skyscrapers!
Anyway, please don’t interpret this as an attack on you or any other BC investor – it’s certainly not intended to be, and yes, once built, like the Torch, i'm sure BC will be a great place to live!

^^
At the risk of coming across as condescending, which isn’t my intention at all, I think the investors from the Torch, and peripheral observers have the upper hand here – experience-wise, as we’ve been through what you’re going through with the same developer, although admittedly, to a lesser degree, what with the economic slowdown.
When problems first started emerging with the Torch project, a number of us were in denial, kidding ourselves that the developer would see us right. True Blue and others outlined what was happening – providing us with a reality check despite assurances from DS as they were formally known. True to form, he proved to be correct and they proved to be wrong.
Of course, this doesn’t mean anyone is automatically a technical expert, but he and others came under fire for providing accurate insight from people who found bad news very difficult to swallow – after all, for some of us, it’s our hard-earned savings!
On the point about credentials, if I was an expert in these matters and someone asked me to back-up my experience, I certainly wouldn’t feel I needed to, so long as the information I was providing was accurate after the test of time.
One small point, the absence of skyscrapers in Scotland doesn’t mean a thing. Some of the finest architects and engineers in say Dubai or other places like Hong Kong are British, although I doubt London or any other UK city can claim to be land of skyscrapers!
Anyway, please don’t interpret this as an attack on you or any other BC investor – it’s certainly not intended to be, and yes, once built, like the Torch, i'm sure BC will be a great place to live!

Sorry...you are correct it does come accross as very condescending. Regarding your "one small point" statement The finest architects world wide may be British but the fact remains that TB works and lives in Scotland. I am privvy to exactly what he does for a living however it is most definately not my place to post it here. That is the reason for MY continued doubt. Like most of the other investors in Dubai i also have an "eye" for building progress through contiual watching my other projects and seeing them go up. I may not be as serious a watcher as some but i do watch the ones of interest to me. I know for a fact using my non professional knowledge and only utilizing my Dubai skills as an interested invetor that this project is way behind even there most recent dates. But as i continually say 95% of all projects are the same. This is the rule not the exception in Dubai. I genuinely feel as though your hero has a gripe with this developer as he has no vested interest here and contiually bashes. As TB will tell you himself some projects run way over but come good in the end providing a substantial
income.
In My humble non propfessional Opinion continued bashing of this nature can only have a detrimental effect on future value and resale ability of BC. I have an interest in that as an owner of property in BC. TB does not have and that worries me. I also think credentials are importmant as many people may put a lot of weight in his opinion and REACT accordingly...that is dangerous.
Sorry in advance to all TB lovers but as Joannides points out i am not breaking any rules it is only my opionion...and it won't change no matter how many of you line up to have a go.
BTW what tower are you in Joannides?
Cheers

^^
It sounds like you would prefer for someone to post comments stating that it’s perfectly normal for the delays (in both BC and TT), but from my perspective, having accurate and timely insight gives one the ability to do something about it. Pressing for deferred payments is one such example.

You state that ‘continued bashing of this nature can only have a detrimental effect on future value and resale ability of BC’, although I suspect that the current status of this project serves this purpose more than those commenting on it. I should add that the flipside to this – that such concerns are not expressed, could have an impact on ‘would-be’ investors who ‘REACT’ in the absence of information.

Anyway, I simply expressed an opinion and gave some insight from the perspective of being a Torch investor. It’s up to you whether you take it with the spirit it was intended. I won’t lose sleep over it either way.

^^
It sounds like you would prefer for someone to post comments stating that it’s perfectly normal for the delays (in both BC and TT), but from my perspective, having accurate and timely insight gives one the ability to do something about it. Pressing for deferred payments is one such example.
Nonsense. News Flash ~ There are other deveopements other than TT AND BC all of which suffer from same/similar problems as this. Also it would be naive of you to think this is my first and only investment with SP. I might have a wee bit of experience here, maybe even as much as the "experts" on this site. However, i have an ability to see beyond the short term because in my experience off plan buying is long term and i always plan my finances around this. The majority of negative people that post here really expected their property to finished as per the contract. Now that is Naive...don't you agree? Regarding deferred payments...i have had many talks with SP regarding this and know exactly where they are at and how it may progress. ALL our finances are different; ergo there is no point in joining hands on this. What might suit me might not suit another etc. I am happy so far with my arrangements with SP. You never know...good news may be coming soon!

You state that ‘continued bashing of this nature can only have a detrimental effect on future value and resale ability of BC’, although I suspect that the current status of this project serves this purpose more than those commenting on it. I should add that the flipside to this – that such concerns are not expressed, could have an impact on ‘would-be’ investors who ‘REACT’ in the absence of information.

I would agree that both perpestives could be considered here and you could argue a case for both.


Anyway, I simply expressed an opinion and gave some insight from the perspective of being a Torch investor. It’s up to you whether you take it with the spirit it was intended. I won’t lose sleep over it either way.

I do take it as intended and appreciate it but don't understand your need to defend TB because i dared to comment about him. He is big enough to stand up for himself. What Toweer are you in in BC...you didn't mention?
Have a good sleep.....
Cheers

..................and when people start putting the following terms into Google search you know things are going to go from bad to worse before they get better !

"loan defaulter uae"

"if unable to pay personal loan in dubai"

"loan defaulter in abu dhabi commercial bank"

"take loan and run away from dubai"

"can you leave dubai with loan default"

"what will happen if i default loan in du"

"what a joke dubai is"

"personnal loans in dubai runaway"

"f***d real estate dubai"

"dubai loans default run away"

"how to defaulting loan dubai"

anybody can set up a website with these terms. It is usually deluded chancers who do. You find them selling dodgy mobile phones, second hand cars, property scams in Bulgaria, low level estate agents etc in any country. They prey on the naive and are competely unprincipled. They are usually referred to as "pond life".

My generic advice on UK Bank shares is that they hold good value for a long term investor. Long term being 4 years plus. The prospect of a 100% return on UK Bank shares proir to your keys being handed over at BC is still a recomendation that i would stand by.

you do lose credibility when you recommend UK bank shares (as you have for many months). All UK banks are technically insolvent and all inc Barclays will require capital injections by UK govt over the coming months. Probably all of them will be majority owned by UK govt by the end of 2009. Euro legislation is on the way that will add more control over bank activities and attitude to risk. Investing now in UK bank shares is very, very risky especially as the ban on short selling is over. See what happened yesterday to Barclays shares as soon as this happened.

I stick to commenting on the dubai scene were your views are always interesting.

right hand side view from central tower wil be great..



agreed the view of the Yatch club will be impressive but LHS view will also be great as there will an uninterupted view of the marina in the other direction.

my view simply!!

BC & Torch = Very poor investment choice Short Term / Current Climate
BC & Torch = Very nice place to live and Great investment in 5 years Plus

So were both in the same Boat..

If you beleive in SP/BCD and BC then now is a good time to buy. If progress had been on original schedule then current buying price in BC would be a lot more than it is now. However it is an investment for the long term not short term.

There is a lot of heat being generated right now by investors because they have bought on a tight budget and need projects to be completed on time so they can use rental income to make the rest of the payments.

I will say that SP/BCD have misled their investors on all their projects. It is now clear that they never had any intention of completing to the original schedules. I think they have delayed progress so that investors funds the entire project with SP/BCD recouping their initial costs inc land quickly so they have the cash to launch another new project.

I know of someone that rented out a one bedroom in the jewel last week [unfurnished] for AED 140,000 per annum one cheque so things still looking good for rental market.



I have a 1 bed apartment in JBR Bahar 6 which directly overlooks BC. The current tenant who has rented for 18 months leaves shortly. My agent has 3 people who want to rent it (unfurnished except for white goods) for 140,000 pa cash upfront. There is no lack of demand right now at this level in the marina.

This rent would represent a 14.5% return pa on my 1 bed BC investment. Pity it is going to be very, very late.

I see, it's all the same around here still. Same people full of the same s**t.:bash::bash:

reply from SP


Thank you for your Email.



It has come to our attention that there is mounting speculation about RERA introducing a regulation whereby developers cannot collect more than 20% payment from their customers until building work commences on each relevant development.



This is not anything that either Select Property or Select Group has been made aware of by RERA and so we are currently trying to obtain clarification on the matter. Once we have this information we will inform you as a matter of urgency.



Any questions please let me know.



Best regards



Russell






Russell Hayes
After Sales Director

Tel. 0870 111 8890
Fax. 0870 444 1175
Email. russell.hayes@selectproperty.com
www.selectproperty.com

anybody can set up a website with these terms. It is usually deluded chancers who do. You find them selling dodgy mobile phones, second hand cars, property scams in Bulgaria, low level estate agents etc in any country. They prey on the naive and are competely unprincipled. They are usually referred to as "pond life".

^^ I think you miss understood. The terms I have listed are what people are typing into Google search to look for relevant information. They are not keywords on a website which is what you have described.

you do lose credibility when you recommend UK bank shares (as you have for many months). All UK banks are technically insolvent and all inc Barclays will require capital injections by UK govt over the coming months. Probably all of them will be majority owned by UK govt by the end of 2009. Euro legislation is on the way that will add more control over bank activities and attitude to risk. Investing now in UK bank shares is very, very risky especially as the ban on short selling is over. See what happened yesterday to Barclays shares as soon as this happened.

I stick to commenting on the dubai scene were your views are always interesting.

I think UAE govt may have to bail out Barclays before UK govt does !!

But at £1 have got to be good risk havent they ? HT what do you say ? -
I think i am having £10k worth Monday Morning whatever !

reply from SP


Thank you for your Email.



It has come to our attention that there is mounting speculation about RERA introducing a regulation whereby developers cannot collect more than 20% payment from their customers until building work commences on each relevant development.



This is not anything that either Select Property or Select Group has been made aware of by RERA and so we are currently trying to obtain clarification on the matter. Once we have this information we will inform you as a matter of urgency.



Any questions please let me know.



Best regards



Russell






Russell Hayes
After Sales Director

Tel. 0870 111 8890
Fax. 0870 444 1175
Email. russell.hayes@selectproperty.com
www.selectproperty.com

Rusell is right, 20% issue unfortunately it is NOT law yet just "advice" from RERA (what a joke ! ) they need to make LAW and QUICK !!

And the only reason we had to pay the 1% RERA fee was that SP is a third party because they have already bought off the developer in Dubai and selling to us (the third partys) my advice buy dIrect in DUBAI no 1% fee then until completion or until you sell

I see, it's all the same around here still. Same people full of the same s**t.:bash::bash:

just fact rather than rumour, heresay, somebody's guess based on nothing.

Same old "negative" Mackie1964, give it a rest chief.

MOAF

PS- Are you always negative mackie1964 in life or do you have spells of positivity. at times

^^Nah its overrated :)
I am hoping to learn a few things from you guys. You seem to know your stuff :nuts:
When do you think I should expect to get my keys?
Thanks

^^Nah its overrated :)
I am hoping to learn a few things from you guys. You seem to know your stuff :nuts:
When do you think I should expect to get my keys?
ThanksEarly 2012

Wow - shows that BC has a great location (in my view anyway!)...Thanks to AppleMac for great pictures in DMM thread.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l212/sids666/IMG_0004_1.jpg

GermanTower found this on flickr! Thanks!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2q3sojq.jpg

I think UAE govt may have to bail out Barclays before UK govt does !!

But at £1 have got to be good risk havent they ? HT what do you say ? -
I think i am having £10k worth Monday Morning whatever !

just an update on share price drops this Monday Morning from BBC website

Royal Bank of Scotland Group
Price now Price reduction % reduction
P P %
14.60 20.10 57.93

Lloyds Banking Group
64.70 33.70 34.25

Standard Chartered
665.50 102.50 13.35

HSBC Holdings
467.00 68.75 12.83

It is not that long ago that RBS were over £6 per share ie they are now 2.5%
of what they were. I hope you didn't invest this morning.

just an update on share price drops this Monday Morning from BBC website

Royal Bank of Scotland Group
Price now Price reduction % reduction
P P %
14.60 20.10 57.93

Lloyds Banking Group
64.70 33.70 34.25

Standard Chartered
665.50 102.50 13.35

HSBC Holdings
467.00 68.75 12.83

It is not that long ago that RBS were over £6 per share ie they are now 2.5%
of what they were. I hope you didn't invest this morning.

^^Naughty, naughty Slowhand...


You forgot Barclays!

Last Trade: 91.50 p
Trade Time: 2:30PM
Change: Down 6.50 (6.63%)
Prev Close: 98.00
Open: 116.00
Bid: 91.50
Ask: 91.80
1y Target Est: 194.35p

Day's Range: 86.00 - 122.80
52wk Range: 98.00 - 512.50
Volume: 186,031,568
Avg Vol (3m): 47,211,800
Market Cap: N/A
P/E: N/A
EPS : N/Ap
Dividend: 34.00p

You can see up-to-date info here (i can't type fast enough!): http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=BARC.L&t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

anyone hear any news on the RERA law change, when its gonna be implemented.

[QUOTE=FWIW;30968600]^^Naughty, naughty Slowhand...


You forgot Barclays!

Last Trade: 91.50 p
QUOTE]

Sorry - Barclays closed 10p down at 88p. RBS now 11.60p only 63% down on day. Now short selling is allowed again, banking shares are likely for forseeable future to go one way ie down.

In comparison values at BC has now probably bottomed, will stay there for a time and will rise with construction progress.

SP/BCD get your finger out for everyone's benefit. Just get on with it.

^^Nah its overrated :)
I am hoping to learn a few things from you guys. You seem to know your stuff :nuts:
When do you think I should expect to get my keys?
Thanks

2012 min

2012 min

could be 2012.

It would be helpful to have a detailed list of milestones of what needs doing for BC towers (which in theory are small ie smallish footprint and not that high compared with Torch and other towers) so we can collectively judge likely hand over date and measure progress over the coming months.

Can anyone produce such a list?

We can then put this list to SP/BCD for their dates.

^^
I'll wait till the building reaches ground level. Min 2012 is a good guesstimate (Minimium being the key word). As long as BC is a hole in the ground, forget it. If it remains so, which i think it will by the end of this year, then make it 2013.

^^
I'll wait till the building reaches ground level. Min 2012 is a good guesstimate (Minimium being the key word). As long as BC is a hole in the ground, forget it. If it remains so, which i think it will by the end of this year, then make it 2013.

I appreciate your frustration but we could do with some detail so that everyone who uses the forum that is construction specialists and non specialists alike can form their own opinion. Can anyone provide a list?

OK - who want's some pictures? Thanks to Peter! You da man!


http://i42.tinypic.com/11hcpr7.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/16j3ale.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/t6cyza.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/mwqoo4.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/10wryx1.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/15mbhb6.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/mbqvf5.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/50fq5w.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/34pl5qb.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ccxht.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/9swfhw.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/ilyscx.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/b5r4uu.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2epismr.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/54bmvt.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/256v4bc.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/205v53q.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vlw8b5.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/li3vn.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/t4zt4k.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/ogcoba.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/4heebr.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2u4kfmx.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/21abyoj.jpg

Best update ever on this thread, keep it up:applause:

The above pics confim that I am wrong on the position of the central tower, it is clearly still in the middle.

^^Thanks for your comments TB - Can you give us your construction point of view? For me to see more than 10 workers on site is an amazing improvement!

Thks great pics!

Thanks charlie big potatoes for the pictures ^^^^

Up to the picture with the WATCHMAN were to be fair taken on friday so it would be deserted and the ones after on sunday. I took the one of the office between BC and Al Fattan to show the size of this office thing and the view it will obstruct to the beach on lower floors. Inside The Oasis beach tower the pool is in darkness as this office block rises. They will never get repeat guests.

20/January/2009

Bay Central

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2457/imresolt10wx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:ohno:hi got a e mail from russell last week. SP+developers were meeting with RERA over the weekend. has anyone had a response from SP following this meeting . I havent had any .

hi all a freind of mine has just had a call from SP sales team saying his apartment in The Point will be ready for hand over in March.2009 and would he like SP to furnish it for him:banana:

^^Maybe they could rent it out for him too on 1st March!!!!

:lol:

^^Maybe they could rent it out for him too on 1st March!!!!

:lol:

have you seen the gulf news today regarding decree regarding rent cap. makes interesting reading. :cheers:

^^Nope not seen that...been too busy watching sterling and obama!

^^Nope not seen that...been too busy watching sterling and obama!

Dont watch sterling, have a look at Ceres Power (CWR) i go in and out very often sometimes knicking 30% a day but dont be greedy!

hi all a freind of mine has just had a call from SP sales team saying his apartment in The Point will be ready for hand over in March.2009 and would he like SP to furnish it for him:banana:
me too lol

just an update on share price drops this Monday Morning from BBC website

Royal Bank of Scotland Group
Price now Price reduction % reduction
P P %
14.60 20.10 57.93

Lloyds Banking Group
64.70 33.70 34.25

Standard Chartered
665.50 102.50 13.35

HSBC Holdings
467.00 68.75 12.83

It is not that long ago that RBS were over £6 per share ie they are now 2.5%
of what they were. I hope you didn't invest this morning.Luckily on Monday morning i was too busy to buy the BARCLAYS shares --phew lucky escape !!

Best update ever on this thread, keep it up:applause:

The above pics confim that I am wrong on the position of the central tower, it is clearly still in the middle.
Would agree with you TB Thank you TO CBG !! Did you get inside TP aswell ?

RERA and DIB Forum looks at issues of real estate developers
Staff Report
Published: January 17, 2009, 23:27
Dubai: Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) in partnership with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) hosted over 50 real estate developers at an escrow forum.
The forum provided a platform for DIB's escrow account customers to have a dialogue with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency.
It was attended by senior RERA officials, including Engineer Marwan Bin Galaita, CEO; Khalid Obaid Ahmad Al Mutaiwe'e, Director of Escrow Account Department; Eisa Saeed Ahmad Al Mansouri, Head of Escrow Account Section; and Ayman Adel Kamal, Executive Vice President, and the Chief of Real Estate Finance & Direct Equities Department, DIB.
Addressing the forum, Marwan Bin Galaita said: "Since RERA's establishment in 2007, we have taken several steps to bring about greater transparency and credibility in the real estate sector and will continue to play a key role in regulating the market."
"This interactive session is another step in the right direction."


http://www.xpress4me.com/news/uae/dubai/20011493.html

very good pics. Thanks

Further progress on central and west towers been made. Tall crane being readied for central tower by the look of it.

Don't know whether progress is fast enough but it has speeded up which is encouraging.

I just find it strange that they are not working on areas that are crying out for attention. The shore wall gunite has stopped, the shaping and blinding concrete to the floor areas is not progressing. West tower pile raft was more than 2 weeks ago and still assembling the slip form. Would have been quicker to use standard shutters for the first couple of levels and concentrate on more operations to get the basement water tight and tidied up underfoot.

They have labour on site but I think they need split up more and cover as many operations as possible.

I suggest what is required is more operations happening and more labour to make them happen faster.

^^^:applause:

I love that line...

"A man should be judged on what he can build, not on what he can destroy".

Barack Obama 19th January 2009.

Would agree with you TB Thank you TO CBG !! Did you get inside TP aswell ?

Was unable to get inside The Point this visit. I too had a call fron SP re Luxury and SUPERIOR furniture packs 8 GRAND FOR A 1 BED!:nuts:

RERA and DIB Forum looks at issues of real estate developers
Staff Report
Published: January 17, 2009, 23:27
Dubai: Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) in partnership with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) hosted over 50 real estate developers at an escrow forum.
The forum provided a platform for DIB's escrow account customers to have a dialogue with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency.
It was attended by senior RERA officials, including Engineer Marwan Bin Galaita, CEO; Khalid Obaid Ahmad Al Mutaiwe'e, Director of Escrow Account Department; Eisa Saeed Ahmad Al Mansouri, Head of Escrow Account Section; and Ayman Adel Kamal, Executive Vice President, and the Chief of Real Estate Finance & Direct Equities Department, DIB.
Addressing the forum, Marwan Bin Galaita said: "Since RERA's establishment in 2007, we have taken several steps to bring about greater transparency and credibility in the real estate sector and will continue to play a key role in regulating the market."
"This interactive session is another step in the right direction."




Thanks for post. This is useful info. I think RERA in the end will turn out to be the organisation that gets our developments delivered. I can't see developers caring too much about us but only caring about retaining their approval to develop which they will only be able to do if they comply with RERA's rules.

Was unable to get inside The Point this visit. I too had a call fron SP re Luxury and SUPERIOR furniture packs 8 GRAND FOR A 1 BED!:nuts:
8k aed would be more like it !

i'm owner of an apartment on bay central. Sp said to me that i have to pay 1% rera, but when i ask when they say, as soon as possible.

i have to pay or not? and when is the last time to pay??

Thanks!!

i'm owner of an apartment on bay central. Sp said to me that i have to pay 1% rera, but when i ask when they say, as soon as possible.

i have to pay or not? and when is the last time to pay??

Thanks!!

Most investors i know have paid tha 1% fee for rera. thisis for landregistration of youe apartment. I suggest you pay it as it was brought out as a law in october 2008.lwa was taht all properties shuold be registraed with rera by december 2008.
this also gives youa peace of mind as the apartmnt is legally yours.

dxbgo:cheers:

^^
That's what SP has brainwashed you to believe. They are still the only developers i know in Dubai that has demanded this payment from their investors. Why not ask RERA if they have authorized such payments since in theory this should be paid to them. SP are quick to interpret parts of the new laws wherever possible to generate extra funds.

Someone posted a receipt for such a payment - Doesn't the receipt look like something from the stationery outlet, Staples? :lol:

shouldnt the receipt of the 1% we paid come from the land registry Authorities?

^^
That's what SP has brainwashed you to believe. They are still the only developers i know in Dubai that has demanded this payment from their investors. Why not ask RERA if they have authorized such payments since in theory this should be paid to them. SP are quick to interpret parts of the new laws wherever possible to generate extra funds.

Someone posted a receipt for such a payment - Doesn't the receipt look like something from the stationery outlet, Staples? :lol:

I'm still somewhat confused still about this fee, look at this link..

http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/dubai-real-estate-alert-pre-registration-law.cfm

Nothing on 1% fee for offplan purchasers, just for third party sales of 1% buyer & 1% seller...

Select advise we pay 1% they pay 1% but it does not make sense for pure offplan sales..

What developers do you know that have NOT asked for this from their offplan buyers ??

I'm still somewhat confused still about this fee, look at this link..

http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/dubai-real-estate-alert-pre-registration-law.cfm

Nothing on 1% fee for offplan purchasers, just for third party sales of 1% buyer & 1% seller...

Select advise we pay 1% they pay 1% but it does not make sense for pure offplan sales..

What developers do you know that have NOT asked for this from their offplan buyers ??
I have explained this several times on various threads that SP is the third party and NOT the developer THATS WHY i have paid anyway other projects i deal direct with in DUBAI I DO NOT pay this fee - just unlucky we bought
off SP i guess

i've bought another apartment on Mag218, but nobody tell me that i have to pay 1% for RERA. my apartment i've bought on Bay central, i suppose is mine, also if i don't pay 1%, i have a contract on my hand and i have the receipt of all payment.

i do not have any kind of construction knowledge but one thing i can make out by looking last pictures that BC site is not organised at all....everything is here and there....i do ageree with True Blue....i am following Silverlane forum as well...it always look clean and neat....why this site is not organised??....experts comments are welcome...

any new pic??? please

I have explained this several times on various threads that SP is the third party and NOT the developer THATS WHY i have paid anyway other projects i deal direct with in DUBAI I DO NOT pay this fee - just unlucky we bought
off SP i guess

After much research it seems that everyone will have to pay the 1% fee regardless of the developer, however Select were proactive in getting their investors to pay this fee in line with the Law 13, its not a case of there being a third party agent, the contract is with a subsidery company of the developer, so for all intent and purpose the same company. Don't know why other developers have not started to contact clients in respect of this if it has to be paid in line with the Law but that something else..

^^ What Jeffers said seems to be correct. Skim through the completed properties section and you will find other developers are now asking for this 1% fee. In fact some are trying to get the owners to pay the whole 2%.

^^
That's what SP has brainwashed you to believe. They are still the only developers i know in Dubai that has demanded this payment from their investors. Why not ask RERA if they have authorized such payments since in theory this should be paid to them. SP are quick to interpret parts of the new laws wherever possible to generate extra funds.

Someone posted a receipt for such a payment - Doesn't the receipt look like something from the stationery outlet, Staples? :lol:

^^ Looks like Select must be the ONLY developer you know in that case.

Take some time to check out Dubai property forums other than SSC and you may get to know a few more developers that are asking for the 1% charge in fact some want the whole 2%.

Early 2012
2012 min
could be 2012.
On, before or after 12/12/2012?

You guys sure know your stuff, I am glad that we have you around here :)

On, before or after 12/12/2012?

You guys sure know your stuff, I am glad that we have you around here :)

Actually, on uk bank shares we aren't that bad!:banana:

imre.. can you point your camera over here please...

Received my receipts from SP re the 1% today.

when we gonna get full receipts from land registry Authorities

^^they told me that after they had registered point properties, and then bay central in order payments received...

On, before or after 12/12/2012?

You guys sure know your stuff, I am glad that we have you around here :)

hey, could be before 2012 as compared with Torch much smaller footprint and max 50 floors ie there could be half as much work in each tower compared with Torch. However, of course, there is the hotel to be concerned about as not started. Yep, 2012, unfortunately, sounds right. We need RERA to come to our rescue with a big stick with which to beat BCD :bash: until they perform quicker.

hope you didn't buy any banking shares last week. Apparently HT and The Point did. Lost their shirts apparently

After much research it seems that everyone will have to pay the 1% fee regardless of the developer, however Select were proactive in getting their investors to pay this fee in line with the Law 13, its not a case of there being a third party agent, the contract is with a subsidery company of the developer, so for all intent and purpose the same company. Don't know why other developers have not started to contact clients in respect of this if it has to be paid in line with the Law but that something else..

Once completed I agree the fee will have to be paid, not before though IMO ?

Any of the photographers here interested in a job to manage a construction company's website. The job includes continually updating the website with progress pictures, and updating the website with information.

Make Imre an offer he can't refuse, A teddy bear's head should do it :cheers:

i hope the delivery does not happen at the same time as the 15 year payment plan ends.........

hey, could be before 2012 as compared with Torch much smaller footprint and max 50 floors ie there could be half as much work in each tower compared with Torch. However, of course, there is the hotel to be concerned about as not started. Yep, 2012, unfortunately, sounds right. We need RERA to come to our rescue with a big stick with which to beat BCD :bash: until they perform quicker.

hope you didn't buy any banking shares last week. Apparently HT and The Point did. Lost their shirts apparently

I am stuffed all ways then HT -- got a few bank shares got BC Apartment losing all round LOL but both are long term so times will change - BC WILL be great in 2012 and Barclays wont be nationalised (Middle east investor will buy first ?)
I think possibly RBS is toast though would you agree ?

Most importantly If BANKS Bust and BC isnt built it wont break me but it wouldn't be good news for a few thats the sad thing

BC seems to be making good progress to me now so lets see how 2009 goes good luck SP

GOOD NEWS. Several of us have had meetings with SP recently followed up with emails. I have just been told that piling will start on the hotel in around 2 weeks and an official announcement is expected to be made by the developer at that time. A review of timescales has also been carried out and good progress is expected over the coming months on all towers.

Russell told me sometime ago that progress would pick up around XMAS and it has so I am hopeful this will latest development will also happen.

This will be reassuring, to me anyway, if it does, because I expect this to be the start of much better communication with us and hopefully a turning point for our relationship with them.

Of course the "proof is in the pudding". Let's wait and see what happens.

GOOD NEWS. Several of us have had meetings with SP recently followed up with emails. I have just been told that piling will start on the hotel in around 2 weeks and an official announcement is expected to be made by the developer at that time. A review of timescales has also been carried out and good progress is expected over the coming months on all towers.

Russell told me sometime ago that progress would pick up around XMAS and it has so I am hopeful this will latest development will also happen.

This will be reassuring, to me anyway, if it does, because I expect this to be the start of much better communication with us and hopefully a turning point for our relationship with them.

Of course the "proof is in the pudding". Let's wait and see what happens.

Slowhand please take most of what SP say with a pinch of salt. I do not know how long you have been involved with them but i have had dealings with them since Feb 06 on TP. 3 YEARS YES 3 YEARS to get TP to where it is today and still a year off completion, yet they call me with silly firniture packages and saying snagging and handover will commence April. They talk out there arse, it has taken them nearly 2 and a half years to get BC to where it is today. Absolute shambles outfit, learning along the way at all our expenses.

In some months they sold 200 apartments (so they said to three of us in a recent meeting - one of the group was morrismarina, remember him!) and now they have only resales at present.

I am planning for 2012 handover anyway. But a start on the hotel is good news and much better than no progress.

I understand your skepticism. Let's see what happens over next 2/3 weeks. If we get a communication from the developer ie not SP but Select Group then this will be a first and a change for the better.

2012 .. I'll suggest to reevaluate this date just before the summer working hours kick in. 2013 and beyond is my forecast. Some activity on the ground and hope that this is a genuine effort on the part of the developer (Select group or BayCentral Developments or whatever name they have chosen to hide themselves under for possible protection if a liquidation is inevitable), and not a preliminary effort to stop investors filing complaints with RERA.

It is always nice to have some comfort with any investment, and for that i wish you the best, slowhand. As someone mentioned, take communications with the likes of Morrisman or SP reps with a pinch of salt.

Did anyone get email from select property. you can now own property abroad from about £8.92/per week payments. are SP real or is this another new marketing venture.surely thay should at deliver on project at least.
a friend of mine was rung again from SP today selling him a furniture pack for a one bed in The Point for £8000.SP were adamant that point will be ready for handover in March 2009.:nuts:

^^Casa Dubai did this for years now and they have recently gone out of business :bash:

a friend of mine was rung again from SP today selling him a furniture pack for a one bed in The Point for £8000.SP were adamant that point will be ready for handover in March 2009.:nuts:

Furniture package for £8000:eek: Is that for the penthouse?

No wonder they are on the case easily 100% markup there. Money in the bank for 9 months before having to spend anything out. Got it worked out these SP guys:applause:

they should give free furniture packs due too the delays..

they should give free furniture packs due too the delays..

you ain't seen the furniture :lol:

Things looking good to me as i can see massive progress over the last 2/3 weeks.
I await the outcry from the usual suspects ["experts"] telling me how wrong i am and how things should be done.



Sorry I don't share your special powers of observation.:laugh:
What we need is pictures taken at monthly intervals, that way the progress should be more visible.

I will await the outcry from the usual optomists ("amatures") telling me how wrong I am and how I never have anything positive to say here.

What I have noticed from the angles the pictures were taken from is that they were not ready to pour that raft. The shoring anchors are not finished and neither is much of the preparation works. Starting the raft was a good move to get RERA and investors off their backs. I think we will see them play with the big mechano set for a while yet.

Politics now, not progress.

Sorry I don't share your special powers of observation.:laugh:
What we need is pictures taken at monthly intervals, that way the progress should be more visible.

I will await the outcry from the usual optomists ("amatures") telling me how wrong I am and how I never have anything positive to say here.

What I have noticed from the angles the pictures were taken from is that they were not ready to pour that raft. The shoring anchors are not finished and neither is much of the preparation works. Starting the raft was a good move to get RERA and investors off their backs. I think we will see them play with the big mechano set for a while yet.

Politics now, not progress.

Bang! Right on cue...
OK your right about everything and everyone esle is wrong.
Good use of the highlite function in your commentaries. Are you an IT whizz as well!

Bang! Right on cue...
OK your right about everything and everyone esle is wrong.
Good use of the highlite function in your commentaries. Are you an IT whizz as well!

I think we should value TB's comments as he tells it as it is not how we would like it to be.

WE are making progress. We need pictures as at today to measure this.

Does anybody know how many floors the podium consists of as it is unclear from the info that sp provide? It states 3000sqft retail space
Does it cover most of the plot also? and how long should it generally take to get to this stage?
People talk about a floor a week for the main towers but this is vague as each tower from project to project is different..
I would appreciate a bit of feedback/knowledge and look forward to for the wisecrack answers!

podium only looks 3 stories

http://i42.tinypic.com/919jxz.jpg

Hmmm, careful where you direct that sort of comment; - there are nationals here who are going to be your neighbours!

It's amusing that you should post something like that really after blowing sunshine up TB's rear end. He's the worst of the bunch for being here only to wind people up!!

wasn't thinking of you yousuf, you are OK. It's the hooligans I don't want to live next to. I respect TB's opinion but I don't want him as a neighbour as he is a nitpicker. :)

Found these on other forum [posted by i love dubai]. Looks good.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vl2rmx.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/s2b984.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/mbpkz9.jpg

[QUOTE=DxbPC;31590336]Found these on other forum [posted by i love dubai]. Looks good.

QUOTE]

This location on the Walk is only 2 mins walk from BC. It is next to the Hilton Jumeirah for those who know this hotel. The Walk was this busy early Dec and early Jan when I was there. The beach is 75 metres from this part of the Walk. There was work going on fitting out 3 or 4 new restaurants in this area of the Walk and then there will be a choice of about 10 plus coffee shops. Another reason to stick with BC. We just need Select Group to get on with it.

According to Mark Stott piling on hotel will start in around a weeks time and we'll have a formal announcement by the developer ie not SP.

Has anyone got any up to date pics. I am expecting the large crane for the central tower to have been put up.

... I think we will see them play with the big mechano set for a while yet.

Politics now, not progress.

For how long did the big yellow set stayed erected till they actually had work to do and it became an intrusion because of the space it occupied?

taken with a Blackberry, so excuse the quality!

http://i39.tinypic.com/25srhg9.jpg

Pictures from mall for BC ~ will be better in the next 2 months onwards, when hopefully it’s above ground.

(edit) OK maybe 3 months onwards.


Could be 4.:)

Or even 5 months, if nobody mourns.

Just me thinking out loud.:runaway:

taken with a Blackberry, so excuse the quality!



Thans very much. Greatly appreciated. They have put up the tall crane on central tower! Some further progress! :)

Or even 5 months, if nobody mourns.

Just me thinking out loud.:runaway:

you sound a bit smug

you sound a bit smug

Is that how I have come across?

Just haughty sometimes. :bash:

No disrespect meant.:cheers:

Is it all of this Ants in your pants stuff at the Silverene site :) Can you send some to the DCE sites? :cheers:

Silverene is the most industrious site I've seen so far. It is amazing to look at, really. Thought about taking a deck chair next time, relax and watch them build this thing. It's like an anthill!

Took some pictures today, will upload them tonight :)

Today from the food court of Marina Mall:

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/Gourmet_tower_Bay_central_JBR_qa.jpg

Large version: http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/Gourmet_tower_Bay_central_JBR_q.jpg

Not much to see in the hole of Bay Central from this position. But seemed to be a rather sleepy day there - if even anything was happening. Unfortunately... :cry:

^^^^ Thanks Desert Driver.. blown up BC bellow

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a6qh5l.jpg

see post 8368 on Torch thread.

This post says the developer is writing to Torch owners with an assessment of their situation. I expect we will get something similar in a week or so. It will be interesting to see what they say on timescales for BC. Piling should start soon on the hotel. I was told in a week from now.

Slow you say "Just like people will pay more to live in BC than TT" do you mean now or at completion, and where do you think TP figures?

Slow you say "Just like people will pay more to live in BC than TT" do you mean now or at completion, and where do you think TP figures?

above TT, in time the torch will be surrounded with more tall towers, and leave most apartments without decent views..

above TT, in time the torch will be surrounded with more tall towers, and leave most apartments without decent views..

sorry I was trying to be amusing re comments re TT but after thinking about it I agree with Beppe re restricted views. The Point looks to have great views of the Yatch club which is a better view than the Mall that BC has. In my opinion views matter a great deal and add real value. I think BC and TP are closer to JBR and make it easy to walk to the beach side of JBR where there is a growing amount of restaurants and people promenading at all times of the day.

Construction Update - Coming Soon

You are probably wondering where your January construction update for Bay Central is, especially since we decided not to issue an update at the end of December due to the holiday break shortening the month.


Your update is underway but as the project team in Dubai submits its report to the management team of the developer on or around the 5th of every month, we wanted to wait until this latest information came in so we could make your report more up-to-date.


Based on customer feedback, we’re changing the format of your update giving it a whole new look. We have decided that the updates should not only provide development specific information but should also offer Select Property's view on market conditions and regulatory changes, so we’ve added a new feature that covers any issue affecting your purchase, potential to rent etc.


Included in this months update, we’ll be commenting on the proposed RERA 20% payment regulation, the new rental cap decree, Law 13 and Dubai ’s infrastructure budget for 2009.


We hope you’re looking forward to receiving your new-look update at the beginning of next week.



Kind Regards


Member Services

Visit www.myselectproperty.com for the latest property information and updates

Tel. 0870 111 8890
Fax. 0870 444 1175
Email. memberservices@selectproperty.com
www.selectproperty.com

LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO START GIVING US FULLER INFO WHICH IS WHAT SP SAID TO US A WEEK AGO WHEN THREE OF US MET THEM. WE SHOULD KNOW IN A WEEK OR SO.

after they claimed force majeure on the Torch, i would say that Select's track record is getting worse to say the least. can't see how you can interpret more talk (i.e. bullshit) from them as a good thing. anything they say today they can easily take a U turn on tomorrow!


LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO START GIVING US FULLER INFO WHICH IS WHAT SP SAID TO US A WEEK AGO WHEN THREE OF US MET THEM. WE SHOULD KNOW IN A WEEK OR SO.

Pic from today at sunset :)

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_qa.jpg

Large version: http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_q.jpg

Unfortunately its really hard to find a position on street level where you can look into that hole :cry:

Edit: Just saw the JBR terraces in the background. Will sneak up through the "brown blocks" from The Walk next time. View should be better :)

Pic from today at sunset :)

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_qa.jpg

Large version: http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_q.jpg

Unfortunately its really hard to find a position on street level where you can look into that hole :cry:

Edit: Just saw the JBR terraces in the background. Will sneak up through the "brown blocks" from The Walk next time. View should be better :)

On the right hand side of BC near the portacabins there is a hole in the fence from where you can get good pics. try that and send us some good pics Desert Diver.

dxbgo:banana:

Pic from today at sunset :)

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_qa.jpg

Large version: http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1337_q.jpg

Unfortunately its really hard to find a position on street level where you can look into that hole :cry:

Edit: Just saw the JBR terraces in the background. Will sneak up through the "brown blocks" from The Walk next time. View should be better :)

Thanks for the picture.

The balcony at the base of Bahar 6 overlooks BC (no need to sneak) but can't see that much of the hole because of the hoarding. At street level, there was 0.5 metre gap underneath the hoarding on RHS as you look at the sight from Bahar 6 that gives access to other site of the hoarding and gives a great view point of the hole. Also I used to go down say 5 to 7pm in evening when not that many around, say, 20 to 30 workers on site and ask permission from the low key security guard to access the site to take a few pictures and he always said yes.

From today:

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1381_qa.jpg

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1381_q.jpg

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1383_qa.jpg

^^^^ thanks desert driver

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m62yhv.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m62yhv.jpg

Beppe & Desert Diver - thanks for picture. Looks to be plenty of action on central tower. Official statement on BC due from SP/developer anytime in next 2/3 days.

08/February/2009


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3369/imresolt061hy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4791/imresolt107hb6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

thanks for the pix.. we need some from within the hole see whats SP are up too.. :nuts:

we have slow progress better than none

Go into Oasis beach appts they have several excellent viewing levels fot BC and Atlantic.

any pictures from our great photographers??? ---- also ---Imre please take BC pictures from the location mentioned above.....

any pictures from our great photographers??? ....

I put a time-lapse camera to record the progress over the last couple of months:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/frood/LeTigre.gif

any pictures from our great photographers??? ---- also ---Imre please take BC pictures from the location mentioned above.....

IRME ARE YOU CROSS WITH US OR SOMETHING AS YOU HAVENT BEEN TAKING ANY CLOSE PICTURES OF BC SITE?

I have no problem neither you nor the SP , only reason that the last time security said , not allowed to take pics there, after I never went back.

Same problem was before at the Infinity, Elite Residence,Marina 101 etc.. sites, now I can post pics because those are already rising.

If the BC rising I will post pics , dont worry.

EXTRACT FROM ARTICLE ON ARABIANBUSINESS.COM (provided by a Greek friend)

But Marwan bin Ghalita, CEO of RERA, branded the petition story, published earlier this week by newswire Zawya Dow Jones, as "absolutely untrue".

"Personally, I did neither receive a letter of this kind nor any call from the said news website or other," he said in comments published by news agency WAM.

He added: "Maintaining a well-regulated market that provides protection to all stakeholders is one of our top priorities."

He claimed that RERA had, since its creation about one year ago, been taking tremendous efforts to regulate the real estate sector by issuing flexible regulations with the highest possible level of transparency.

"Loss of investor's rights is a red line...it has not happened and it will never happen in Dubai real estate market...RERA has completed registration of developers and brokers at its records to preserve their rights," he added.

"We understand the feelings of worry resulted from the impact of the global financial crisis but we are against the unjustifiable panic, exaggeration and hitting under the belt by some for the sake of making illegitimate ends."

He appealed to investors not to hesitate in calling RERA to know the update of any project and stressed that RERA would never allow developers to breach real estate laws, especially the escrow account system.

full article is here www.arabianbusiness.com%2F546550-rera-chief-denies-petition-from-worried-investors

An update is to be released very soon probably today. I have seen latest pics of west and east towers and further progress has been made. The site looks a lot tidier. Pics I have seen are not in right format to be uploaded to SSC unfortunately. It won't be long before the main raft for central tower is poured as almost all prep work has been completed.

News about the hotel will also be forthcoming.

An update is to be released very soon probably today. I have seen latest pics of west and east towers and further progress has been made. The site looks a lot tidier. Pics I have seen are not in right format to be uploaded to SSC unfortunately. It won't be long before the main raft for central tower is poured as almost all prep work has been completed.

News about the hotel will also be forthcoming.

You could email me the pics Slowhand and I will convert and upload to ssc.

An update is to be released very soon probably today. I have seen latest pics of west and east towers and further progress has been made. The site looks a lot tidier. Pics I have seen are not in right format to be uploaded to SSC unfortunately. It won't be long before the main raft for central tower is poured as almost all prep work has been completed.

News about the hotel will also be forthcoming.

Your update sounds good. Looking forward to seeing pics for progress although the update from SP is long overdue in my opinion.
Your end statement News about the hotel will also be forthcoming. What news are you referring to? Good i hope!

if the hotel piling starts and there fully onboard.. then we could see a rapid increase in speed..

You could email me the pics Slowhand and I will convert and upload to ssc.

the pics are in a Word file .mhs? format. If you send me your email address by PM I'll forward them to you.

In my earlier post I should have said west and central towers not east tower which the hotel

slowhand

An update is to be released very soon probably today. I have seen latest pics of west and east towers and further progress has been made. The site looks a lot tidier. Pics I have seen are not in right format to be uploaded to SSC unfortunately. It won't be long before the main raft for central tower is poured as almost all prep work has been completed.

News about the hotel will also be forthcoming.

Looks like Monday now only because I suggested SP ask SG for more info which they have done. Lets see what is produced.

thanks to slowhand

http://i43.tinypic.com/25akrag.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/1t3igz.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/11t6jbo.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/w8rmdv.jpg

thanks to slowhand



Photos are great. Thanks a lot. They seem to be moving well now and there are certainly plenty of workers. I hope it continues at this pace and we see it rising out the hole soon.
When are they starting the hotel plot?

I think you want to hope that it continues at a much faster pace, this progress in 6 weeks is poor.

There has been no further concrete cast to West tower since 30th December 08. I would expect to see the core 3 lifts higher and the formwork for the first suspended slab in place. This has to happen at the same time as forming and completeing the basement slab in that corner and the basement walls. They haven't even fixed the rebar for the first columns and shear walls. West tower is effectively at a standstill now.

Central tower is progressing and it looks like the real contractor now with a bit more organisation. They have to push like hell and get as much done before the piling restarts and causes access caos.

maybe there do the central tower and west tower lift together?

Can I ask a question TB ?? Excuse my layman's knowledge but don't they have to concrete around the towers so the whole plot is concreted over ? Would this not involve some foundation work, laying hardcore etc. And also doesn't it all need waterproofing with that black stuff ?? All over the floor and up the sides. I assume this would need to be done around the towers and the walls before they could start the piling as they will need access ??

Can I ask a question TB ?? Excuse my layman's knowledge but don't they have to concrete around the towers so the whole plot is concreted over ? Would this not involve some foundation work, laying hardcore etc. And also doesn't it all need waterproofing with that black stuff ?? All over the floor and up the sides. I assume this would need to be done around the towers and the walls before they could start the piling as they will need access ??

It would be useful to know in broad terms what the next steps should be and what order and what access problems need to overcome so that the west and central towers can continue to rise and piling on the hotel can start.

Also the West tower and hotel are 42 floors each I think and the central tower is 55 floors. The footprint of the residential towers is relatively small I have been told as there is a smallish number of smallish apartments on each floor. Presumably the hotel footprint can't be that large because it doesn't look like there isn't much space left. Assuming they all can rise together then, in theory, there is much less work to do than say the Torch at 84? floors and a bigger footprint. Does it work out like this in practice?

The run rate should be 1 new floor ever 5 days apparently. Does this make sense?

It would be useful for someone to set out the key construction milestones so we can then assess what is or isn't possible re timescales.

Assuming they all can rise together then, in theory, there is much less work to do than say the Torch at 84? floors and a bigger footprint. Does it work out like this in practice?

The run rate should be 1 new floor ever 5 days apparently. Does this make sense?

I am no construction expert but the Torch will top out around September of this year and before the 3 towers of Bay Central can start rising you have to get the podium complete here.

I would give it another year to get that done at least.

I agree HT I think we're looking at a year from now for the podium to be finished. Then another year to get to topped out stage plus a final year for internal fitments. So three years from now early 2012 looks likely. Let's just hope we get a few more payment holidays on the LPP to help. :2cents:

Can I ask a question TB ?? Excuse my layman's knowledge but don't they have to concrete around the towers so the whole plot is concreted over ? Would this not involve some foundation work, laying hardcore etc. And also doesn't it all need waterproofing with that black stuff ?? All over the floor and up the sides. I assume this would need to be done around the towers and the walls before they could start the piling as they will need access ??

Sure you can:)


This is what I was refering to when I mentioned the following;

This has to happen at the same time as forming and completeing the basement slab in that corner and the basement walls.

This work can go on while the piling is being done infact it could have been started 8 months ago. There is no reason why the work to west tower has stopped other than there is insufficient labour to progress both towers at the same time.

Silverene poured the first raft slab on 1st December so you can compare the progress on Silverene over the same 6 week period (during that period there was also an Eid holiday)

There is progress here which is a positive, but it is not the sort of progress that is going to see this development finished anywhere near the timescales quoted by Select.

It seems to me that SG had no previous experience of development and construction before Dubai. They are picking up their knowledge based on the Point and theTorch. Hopefully SG are cumulating knowledge and expertise and BC should benefit from this.

Also I believe that SG have recruited a couple of experienced senior construction managers in last few months who have brought a team of 15 from EMAAR. Can this be confirmed?

Thanks TB. :)

Select say the lack of progress has all been down to delays in permissions, new regulations etc...etc... And yet Silverene would have been subject to exactly the same.......yet they are speeding ahead. If Cayan can build at good speed then why not Select ??

Oh I forgot..........Cayan's work is of a much lower quality. :lol:

^^dont appear so looking at Silverene and infinity

Charlie, I was quoting from a post on this thread a couple of moths ago, where somebody phoned SP and was told this.

It would be useful to know in broad terms what the next steps should be and what order and what access problems need to overcome so that the west and central towers can continue to rise and piling on the hotel can start.

Also the West tower and hotel are 42 floors each I think and the central tower is 55 floors. The footprint of the residential towers is relatively small I have been told as there is a smallish number of smallish apartments on each floor. Presumably the hotel footprint can't be that large because it doesn't look like there isn't much space left. Assuming they all can rise together then, in theory, there is much less work to do than say the Torch at 84? floors and a bigger footprint. Does it work out like this in practice?

The run rate should be 1 new floor ever 5 days apparently. Does this make sense?

It would be useful for someone to set out the key construction milestones so we can then assess what is or isn't possible re timescales.

can TB do us a simple set of milestones with an estimated timescales please. We meed more expert comments and less guesses at this stage so we can all make an informed judgement

thanks to slowhand

http://i43.tinypic.com/25akrag.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/1t3igz.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/11t6jbo.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/w8rmdv.jpg

Just logged on and saw this magnificent update. Thank you Slowhand and Beppe for converting/posting them!

Great photos - thks

can TB do us a simple set of milestones with an estimated timescales please. We meed more expert comments and less guesses at this stage so we can all make an informed judgement

FWIW has an excellent graphic to show this that he sometimes posts

http://www.ameinfo.com/images/news/8/32898-mark.jpg

Appropriately called 'Bay Central' the AED 1.5 billion project lies at the heart of the Marina development area and to celebrate, the property developers are sending three columns consisting of 27 beams of light, soaring over one kilometre in to Dubai's night sky, to represent the three towers to be constructed.

Mark Stott, C.O.O, commented: 'The launch of Bay Central coincides with our participation at Cityscape Dubai and of course UAE National Day. Therefore we decided to mark these important occasions with something memorable and spectacular. Three columns of light over three nights, to represent our three towers and three landmark events.'

The developer has also announced that it is the first in Dubai to offer purchasers the security of an Escrow account. In conjunction with Barclays Bank and Emaar, customers of Bay Central will receive full protection of their funds throughout the construction period.

'With a number of developments severely delayed or worst still cancelled, we have pioneered the development of Escrow Accounts in Dubai. Purchasers of Bay Central can take confidence from the fact that their funds will receive full protection throughout the construction period,' added Stott.

Despite their positioning in the upper price range, Dubai Select describe their developments as 'Exclusively Affordable'. Their innovative use of drawn-out and deferred payments cater for multiple investors and homeowners from the middle income bracket to high net-worth individuals. The marina project which combines residential property with serviced apartments and a 55 storey five star hotel boasts a prime central location in Dubai marina, sitting on the waters-edge. Construction work on the project starts later this month and is due for completion by September 2009.

Details of Dubai Selects other two marina developments, The Torch and The Point, along with details of its unique part-ownership scheme, will also be available during Cityscape which opens today (Monday) at the Dubai International Exhibition Centre (DIEC) through Wednesday.

The lights were switched on Saturday and the spectacle will continue until tonight (Monday) between 7pm and midnight.

Posted December 2006, over 2 years ago!!! A testament to their ability to market and inability to construct!

From Dec 2006
If that is just the initial site investigation taking place in the picture above then won't see the piling rigs on site until April/May 2007. Main construction start towards end of 2007 and complete end 2010.

How wrong can you be!!

I wonder how much of an impact the reworking of the hotel/apartments will have on the design. I wonder if all the drawings will have to be redone for central and East towers. Is 2010 realistic? We will see!

If main construction gets underway by end of this year it has a chance.

March 2007, starting to see things going t!ts up. If I only had a crystal ball.

In response to my post regarding the dangers of opting for projects which have payment plans not liked to progress or do not have large final payments, Morris wrote;

Yes linking payments to construction is good........BUT do they operate a non-status payment plan ?? To buy into Trident Grand you either need an incredibly large amount of cash (to pay their sky high prices) or, you need to get yourself a mortgage. Both of these are not options for many DS buyers. I could not have bought anything else in Dubai if it were not for the DS 15 year payment plan.
You never seem to ackowledge this True Blue but that's down to your selective memory.
Also please try and remember.....I know how difficult it must be for your massive "construction" brain :lol: DS pay COMPENSATION for delayed completion. I didn't opt for the payment plan with my Torch purchase (although I had to do this for BC) and I'm 90% paid now, but I will be receiving compensation on ALL that I have paid at LIBOR + 1% as from 31st Dec'08.AND just incase your memory lets you down further.....I have this in writing from DS AND they are NOT crying force majeure so I will get my compensation payments.

BTW completion of Trident Grand December 2008 ?? You're having a bloody laugh :lol:

Wonder how that compensation claim is going.

BTW, TGR could manage a 1 year delay, any chance of SP managing anything less than 2 years?

I think that most of you will be seeing a pattern emerge here without me taking down every person who has slated or attempted to discredit me over the years I have given my time on this forum.

The fact is neither me nor Morrismarina or even Dubai Steve know or have any idea when this project will be complete. This one is out of control now and one of the reasons why people no longer feel safe to invest their money in the Dubai Dream.

Oh dear..........nothing better to do on a Sunday evening that start.........GLOATING again !!! :ohno:

You definitely need to get out more............or get a job !! :lol:

Not GLOATING, just stamping out the PROMOTING!!

Putting a bit of deserved pressure on Select

Just beating my son 3:0 at pool, can't think of a better Sunday evening.:)

Just beating my son 3:0 at pool, can't think of a better Sunday evening.:)

Ahhh......poor kid. :cry:

I'm reporting you to the NSPCC you big bully. :lol:

I think that most of you will be seeing a pattern emerge here without me taking down every person who has slated or attempted to discredit me over the years I have given my time on this forum.

The fact is neither me nor Morrismarina or even Dubai Steve know or have any idea when this project will be complete. This one is out of control now and one of the reasons why people no longer feel safe to invest their money in the Dubai Dream.

Fair points True Blue re BC and Dubai Dreams. Just for the record I have always valued your posts, even though I don't always 100% agree with them.

However, I think this fear and uncertaintiy phase is being hyped up because a minority of movers and shakers will eventually show their cards. These extremely wealthy and powerful people would like nothing else then to see a few silly westerners panic and run away from Dubai after they have funded the Dubai infrastructure.

These people win twice - they sell sand to developers for crazy prices. The developers steal our money from our ESCROW accounts to pay for the land. The project is stretched out indefinately and investors confidence is broken. The SPA's and Laws are ignored/sidestepped/made up to the benefit of the Developers. Investors who used information solely from Developer end up in financial difficulty. Developer takes all the money (or 30% of it) and investor has to fight to get partial refund.

My advice to everyone who has invested in Dubai is make a decision on whether or not you can last this marathon. If you know that you do not have the funds or ability to hold onto this beast then let go and let go early. When these torid times will end is not known, but end it must. The timeframe for this will be years not months in my estimation.

For those of us who didn't overstretch ourselves, then remember the reasons you originally invested in Dubai and hold on as hard as you can to this crazy beast. Letting go is not an option for me, I hope we can all hold onto together and keep our dreams alive.

Well said........:applause:

Anyone got an update on the comment about RERA and the ruling about not requesting payments more than 20%? I've just received a letter demanding payment by Mar 1st (to bring payments up to 70%).

I think it is clear to all that
- BC is well behind original schedule. Most developments in Dubai are but not all. Silverene for example is roaring ahead
- the original delay was because BC (like many other developers) funded the land and probably marketing costs and all start up costs out of investors funds. This happened on the Torch, Point etc.
- BC is making progress. So is Torch and The Point. It is not as quick as we would like but progress is being made. Steps have been taken by the BC developer (SG) to strengthen the construction management team
- RERA have toughened the rules on developers and use of escrow accounts.

If SG was insolvent progress wouldn't continue because construction costs will grow from here on BC and it is likely they will exceed or not be less than further installments from investors. In other words there would be no point from the developers perspective. RERA have made it much more difficult to access escrow funds in the last 3/4 months without proper justification. SP and SG both have cash tide up in investments in Dubai for some time ie at least 5 more years on many other projects include the World etc. RERA will obviously know this and be keen for any of its investors not to be let down at any stage.

Hand over date is likely to be 2011 or 2012. I'm as disappointed with this as everyone else. I have had to change my plans significantly because of this. However we are where we are. You can't turn the clock back. There is potential for further delay due to design changes, getting new permits etc but, on the other hand, the towers are not that high or wide and all three can be built simultaneously so there is potential to speed up.

Because of the legal set up of SP and BCD and the contract terms we have all signed for it will be difficult to get legal redress. Also it will also be difficult to get a consensus for action by investors because there is a wide range of opinions. You can huff and puff as much as you like but it is very likely you will be wasting your energy and getting stressed over something you can't do anything about. If you read through the Torch and Point threads all this has been covered ad nauseam before. I would forget about any compensation that may become due as it is not a lot of money and a side show. The indications are they will claim Force majeure like they have done with the Torch. To investors this looks like dubious action by them but they will "reap what they sow" through loss of goodwill.

You can make your own mind up whether you would buy from SP and SG again because of your particular experience. Many won't unless things change for the better. My apartment in JBR was 2 years late. I bought it from SP. I was very annoyed at the time but now I have forgotten this and consider it to be a great investment. Time will tell regarding BC.

I agree with FWIW. Property funds, hedge funds, cash rich investors, rip off merchants etc are on the look out for buying cheap property assets in Dubai from spooked investors. If you are forced to because of personal cash flow problems, even if this is caused by delays, then RERA and other investors won't be too sympathetic I am afraid. Another person’s misfortune is an opportunity for someone else (consult Darwin for explanation). Tough but a fact.

I think Dubai is and will be a desirable place to invest in or live in because it is up market, many people of all nationalities like the lifestyle and it is tax free. Wherever you get this combination prices are high. Think Monaco, Channel Islands etc. I think the Marina is a very attractive setting that is getting better all the time. BC is in a very desirable location in the Marina. We have bought at a cheap price I think. BC should prove to be a good if not great investment especially if the hotel wants to rent BC apartments from time to time.

My conclusions
- our situation with BC can be explained by the developer funding all the costs out of investor funds hence the delays and not fast progress. There is no reason to think they are going to run out of funds. Our experience is similar to the Torch and the Point both of which are making good progress. BC will be built
- RERA is the back stop so we don’t get ripped off
- hand over is likely to be 2011 or 2012 (not 2010)
- BC should turn out to be a good if not great investment.

No point worrying about something you have limited power to change. Not what we expected but it shouldn't be a bad result and should be a good if not great one.

No point in TB (or anyone else) banging on about this because he is broadly right in his comments about SP and the developer. The situation re SP and the developer is well understood now. I think we should all move on and monitor construction progress from hereon in. It's a pity we don't have much construction expertise on SSC to help us monitor progress in some detail against an outline plan for BC. I would find that useful.

Something along the lines of a start and finish time for

Piling
Main raft
Podium
Main construction
Outside cladding/windows
Topping out
Internal fitting
Snagging
Hand over

This website is becoming more like a lonely hearts site for people with no mates who offer their opinion on everything from the price of bread to their so called expert points of view. (not you slowhand i like your unbiased posts)
We know exactly where we are at and now we just need to focus on moving forward. Whether it be on [new] schedule or 3 yrs later. We are where we are...as they say. Like some others out there i can talk from [my] experience when i tell you that SG are no different to most developers in Dubai.
I wouldn't be surprised if some speculaters were scare mongering on these sites for their own benefit.
If you are lonely and need to come here for companionship constantly then give me ideas / funny stories for my best man speech on Saturday.
TB dry your eyes and give yourself a pat on the back. If i didn't know who you were, i would have thought your last posts were written by a sad wee girl. Clearly you are insecure and need loving...we need you and love you...honest!

An update is to be released very soon probably today. I have seen latest pics of west and east towers and further progress has been made. The site looks a lot tidier. Pics I have seen are not in right format to be uploaded to SSC unfortunately. It won't be long before the main raft for central tower is poured as almost all prep work has been completed.

News about the hotel will also be forthcoming.

This has been issued now. I received mine by email ten minutes ago. They haven't included all the best photos. These were posted a couple of days ago on SSC. They haven't made it clear that the photo on bottom right on second page relates to the central tower and shows a lot of concrete being poured. They could have done the main raft by now. I haven't seen this particular one before.

Clearly SP are much better at sales than writing and producing updates.

I asked SP a few days ago to produce a more detailed outline timetable for each tower. I gave them a suggested template. They have requested this info from SG. I have been told that another update with this info is expected to be released in a week.

i got the new style template update... ill see if i can post a pdf document on here

http://i40.tinypic.com/w0j9c.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/vryrl4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/244r3wg.jpg

^^Message for SP - Please could you give us more pictures in future updates? Especially from high up in Al Fattan or JBR that shows the overall plot. The pictures you have given in this update are very small. How about expanding the pdf to 3 pages to accomodate more pictures? How about giving us a webcam?

Dont waste your time Sunny, what they put together is always so out of date. Better to rely on the likes of Imre etc.

^^ charlie have you had your point apartment land registry documents?

17/February/2009

Bay Central

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4429/imresolt131hk8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5120/imresolt142xs9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2765/imresolt143eq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7868/imresolt145je5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thank you Imre for pictures....

difficult to tell whats goin on...:ohno: .experts comments welcome

Good to see a positive step of construction progress of Bay Central towers n let's think for more & more good steps till it finished within short time duration ... Our goal to need the whole Dubai marina community just finished in time if not , not more then 4 or 5 years of launch time ... :cheers:

The concrete slab for the Central Tower has now been poured, they now have the polysterene insulation sheets on top of it. These will remain for about a week and are to ensure the concrete does not crack. :banana:

I think the update from SP is very good, much better than before. There's no other developer, sorry I mean sales agent :lol: giving this sort of comprehensive update.

Thanks for the pics Imre..........you're the main man as always. :cheers:

Hi Imre, I'm a bit confused by your first photo shows this portacabin which is not in the other pics. Also it seems to be suspended directly over the plot, never seen that there before. :weird: Any idea ?? Also the project signboard has been moved.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2cykwgy.jpg

there on the side

http://i41.tinypic.com/9r7zva.jpg

What are we going to do with you Morris :lol:

Ahhhh........I see what's happened......... I forgot to take my medication this afternoon. :hilarious

You must admit though it is a weird illusion !! Well it is to me anyway............I'm going to lie down now in a darkened room for a couple of hours. :lol:

These angles can be very deceiving...........even True Blue got caught out a few weeks ago........he thought the Central Tower was off-centre !!! I think he'd been on the Glenmorangie though !! :lol:

when i first saw it, looked like bay central was getting another entrance

These angles can be very deceiving...........even True Blue got caught out a few weeks ago........he thought the Central Tower was off-centre !!! I think he'd been on the Glenmorangie though !! :lol:


^^ It was her sister Glenmor Agnes.

Nice bit of propaganda by SP about all the "good progress" made since November. 2 rafts in three months, if you say so:ohno:

I think they live in a bubble and forget that they are just accross the water from Silverene.

Did anyone pick up on this quote;
"We're expecting the final building permits this month after which we expect construction of the basement levels to commence"

So I was right all along, the project is on hold and the pouring of the 2 rafts is a p.r. exercise. Getting around it by claiming it is foundation works and not part of the construction. I wouldn't expect too much progress in the near future as when they start quoting permits that normally leads to some FM delays.:dunno:

Come on TB stop causing trouble. :ohno: The raft slabs need to be inspected by the Dubai Municipality to ensure they meet requirements and then they issue permits for the structure to continue. This is what SP are referring to. :cheers:

^^ Suppose SP told you this when you phoned this morning?

Morris, Bay West slab has been sitting since December 31st, how long does this inspection take because no other site has a raft sitting for months waiting on an inspection that I'm aware of. Just Select that seems to have all the excuses.

well, the west's slab has been poured for over 6 weeks now. do you think the municipality takes this long to inspect and issue the permit!! don't think so!

Come on TB stop causing trouble. :ohno: The raft slabs need to be inspected by the Dubai Municipality to ensure they meet requirements and then they issue permits for the structure to continue. This is what SP are referring to. :cheers:

it really looks like that SP/SG have onboard a spin doctor, maybe someone who came along from their used cars selling days. the more they speak, the more lies come out!
Morris, Bay West slab has been sitting since December 31st, how long does this inspection take because no other site has a raft sitting for months waiting on an inspection that I'm aware of. Just Select that seems to have all the excuses.

SP have tripped themselves up by letting this slip out about the lack of a construction permit.

I don't believe that an inspection of the concrete raft is necessary, what is there to see? It's just another excuse!

SP have tripped themselves up by letting this slip out about the lack of a construction permit.

I don't believe that an inspection of the concrete raft is necessary, what is there to see? It's just another excuse!

SP are not saying the rafts need inspection, Morris is. Morris has admitted he drinks a lot. SP are saying they are waiting for permits for next stage and this is expected very soon ie not months. I don’t know whether how soon this will happen. Let’s wait and see.

I can't see the point of you comparing SP & BCD with a good performance because it has been crystal clear to EVERYONE on SSC for quite some time that their performance is not good. What satisfaction do you and anyone else get from stating the "bleeding obvious". Your comments are becoming tedious because of repetition. Look through all your posts on Torch, the Point and they are essentially all saying the same thing. How many times do you want to repeat yourself?

If you want to make a useful contribution then use your construction knowledge and give us a meaningful plan and timetable to can start to measure performance against otherwise give us a break.

I'd change your nom de plume to THE BORE (same initials as at present).

SP are not saying the rafts need inspection, Morris is.

Correct. :applause:

Your comments are becoming tedious because of repetition. Look through all your posts on Torch, the Point and they are essentially all saying the same thing. How many times do you want to repeat yourself?
If you want to make a useful contribution then use your construction knowledge and give us a meaningful plan and timetable to can start to measure performance against otherwise give us a break.

Correct. :applause:

You won't get a break from TB believe me. The bloke's been going on....and on.....and on.....about the same thing on SSC for three years now. Like a lunatic that paces up and down in his padded cell........going on......and on.....and on. He'll never stop.......because he's nuts !! :lol:

You won't get a break from TB believe me. The bloke's been going on....and on.....and on.....about the same thing on SSC for three years now. Like a lunatic that paces up and down in his padded cell........going on......and on.....and on. He'll never stop.......because he's nuts !! :lol:

It's too late to build him into the raft for the central tower. BCD moved too quickly :lol: There is always the footings for the hotel though :lol:

SP are not saying the rafts need inspection, Morris is. Morris has admitted he drinks a lot. SP are saying they are waiting for permits for next stage and this is expected very soon ie not months. I don’t know whether how soon this will happen. Let’s wait and see.

I can't see the point of you comparing SP & BCD with a good performance because it has been crystal clear to EVERYONE on SSC for quite some time that their performance is not good. What satisfaction do you and anyone else get from stating the "bleeding obvious". Your comments are becoming tedious because of repetition. Look through all your posts on Torch, the Point and they are essentially all saying the same thing. How many times do you want to repeat yourself?

If you want to make a useful contribution then use your construction knowledge and give us a meaningful plan and timetable to can start to measure performance against otherwise give us a break.

I'd change your nom de plume to THE BORE (same initials as at present).

Did I say SP made that statement about the raft inspection? Oh Boy!!

Always the same when people don't like getting bad news, shoot the messenger.

Let me repeat myself, how can I give you a plan and timetable if the start date in unknown? Give me a break!

You won't get a break from TB believe me. The bloke's been going on....and on.....and on.....about the same thing on SSC for three years now. Like a lunatic that paces up and down in his padded cell........going on......and on.....and on. He'll never stop.......because he's nuts !! :lol:

Hey it's very easy for me to watch and keep my observations to myself if the masters of this thread so desire! It's going to make great reading for neutrals, all this "great progress today" stuff.

I am still very sane Morris, hope it's not too late for you?:)

Hey it's very easy for me to watch and keep my observations to myself if the masters of this thread so desire! It's going to make great reading for neutrals, all this "great progress today" stuff.

I am still very sane Morris, hope it's not too late for you?:)

TB - WE NEED YOU!

:cheer:I can't take all this cheerleading no more....:cheer:

You make sure you keep posting.

It is good to see such great progress. Keep it up SP & SG.

True Blue's track record shows that has been right pretty much on everything he posted about SG/SP, while the record of his distractors has been way wrong. i find his comments very useful and realistic, and should be repeated daily imo just to remind people who get optimistic for nothing when the facts on the ground are still proving him right!

his construction knowledge is unmatched on this forum, and there is no wishful thinking in his opinions. so please True Blue keep it up!


I can't see the point of you comparing SP & BCD with a good performance because it has been crystal clear to EVERYONE on SSC for quite some time that their performance is not good. What satisfaction do you and anyone else get from stating the "bleeding obvious". Your comments are becoming tedious because of repetition. Look through all your posts on Torch, the Point and they are essentially all saying the same thing. How many times do you want to repeat yourself?

This is such an amazing and entertaining forum even though I am from the plot next you guys.

Good luck still!

It is good to see such great progress. Keep it up SP & SG.

Now that really is b####x "great progress" give me break

TB is right SP are not the best and I would say are "strangers to the truth"

I know TB is a big CAYAN fan and who can blame him look at the Silverene site - now THATS good progress -busiest site in the marina

This delay with BC is ridiculous I'm 50% paid with 15% ? of the work done and probabaly 25% ? costs incurred by SP up to now