#UNDER C: BAY CENTRAL, 36F+36F+50F Res+Hotel, 155m+180m+155m [Archive] - Page 17

FWIW

June 6th, 2009, 01:57 AM

too much confusion about what clauses in contracts mean for investors. It would be better if the legal facts were properly understood before making posts

As I remember you had great difficulty in comprehension in earlier discussions.

As a favour to you, I will save you reading all 11 pages of bullshit...

Page 1 is all you need to read...I have bolded the bit where initial disagreement will be witnessed:

THIS VARIATION ADDENDUM (“ADDENDUM”) is made on [1 2009
BETWEEN:
(1) Point Development Limited of P0 Box 212791, Dubai UAE (the “Seller”); and
(2) [Insert Buyer] of [insert] (the Buyer)
BACKGROUND;
(A) The Seller has agreed to sell and the Buyer has agreed to purchase the Property pursuant to the Sale Agreement,
(B) The Parties have agreed to vary the Sale Agreement on the terms and conditons of this Addendum, which is supplemental to the Sale Agreement.

Now, when did the Buyer agree to this? Ahhh yes when they went to get their keys...

Now Slowhand, not even you can think that this is fair play.

mackie1964

June 6th, 2009, 05:28 AM

View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/25qx10g/5)

High Times

June 6th, 2009, 11:27 AM

DxbPC

June 6th, 2009, 12:59 PM

Can a Bay Central officianado please answer the following points for me.

1- In the pics below, are these models accurate?
2- Is the so called hotel tower, the east tower (the one highlighted in red)?
3- Originally was the central tower earmarked for a hotel?
4- When was the hotel moved to the east tower location.

Thanks in advance.

Model is not accurate. Full podium changed. See back page of SPA.
The hotel tower is east.
The central tower was earmarked for hotel but had more rooms in it than rennaisance wanted so plans were changed to suit. This all happened before I bought which was August [ish] 2007 although hotel plans were still being drawn up.

http://i40.tinypic.com/6hulib.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/eb5vrp.jpg

Hope this helps

DxbPC

June 6th, 2009, 01:36 PM

^^Denial! Or would you like us to give you some more time to catch up?;)

It would be better if SP did not put people in a corner at handover, no sign no keys even though you honoured your part of the deal.

No denial required because by the time SG got round to writing our SPA they had the main clause in place that is being discussed on the point forum. If you had read clause 5.2, 5.3 & 5.4 in your contract you would know that. Maybe you need a wee bit of time to catch up or read our contract.

That said i think the situation on The Point forum with ammendments to SPA is a disgrace and should not be accepted. [although i havn't read it yet] I think ALL owners accross all SP/SG forums and developements should stand firm together and take this all the way. This is a major breach of trust on SG's part and they should know that no one will accept behavior of this standard.

Anyone thinking that it will all be plane sailing from her on in is off their head. There will be further problems with delays, problems with finishes, problems with materials. When you buy off plan you accept this, you deal with it, you worry and eventually you'll laugh about it. As long as you know this you will be prepared. It will happen so don't worry everyday from now until completion.
The good news for BC investors is they are third in line and buy the time it gets to us [after point and torch] many things will have been resolved.
Just my opinion...

Also...law 26 article 8
Article (8)
A sublease contract between a tenant and a subtenant shall expire by expiry of the tenancy contract between the landlord and the tenant, unless the landlord expressly agrees to an extension of the sublease contract period.
Reading this in conjunction with the clauses in our contract is in my opinion what they are now trying to introduce at The Point.

slowhand99

June 6th, 2009, 03:58 PM

As I remember you had great difficulty in comprehension in earlier discussions.

As a favour to you, I will save you reading all 11 pages of bullshit...

Page 1 is all you need to read...I have bolded the bit where initial disagreement will be witnessed:

THIS VARIATION ADDENDUM (“ADDENDUM”) is made on [1 2009
BETWEEN:
(1) Point Development Limited of P0 Box 212791, Dubai UAE (the “Seller”); and
(2) [Insert Buyer] of [insert] (the Buyer)
BACKGROUND;
(A) The Seller has agreed to sell and the Buyer has agreed to purchase the Property pursuant to the Sale Agreement,
(B) The Parties have agreed to vary the Sale Agreement on the terms and conditons of this Addendum, which is supplemental to the Sale Agreement.

Now, when did the Buyer agree to this? Ahhh yes when they went to get their keys...

Now Slowhand, not even you can think that this is fair play.

the important bit is what follows on from the above? what does it say that has raised concerns? does it say you can't rent until you have paid ALL the instalments on LPP in full or you must be up to date with instalments or what? clearly there is a big difference between these.

SG would have a problem maybe if you acquired title to the property on completion of construction then you rented it out for say 2 years but default on remaining instalments straight away. The tenant maybe able to stay in the apartment while SG get no instalments?

earlier posts suggested we could sue if hotel was not completed and this is not the case.

my point is that either understand the legal facts properly or publish the details in full if unsure so that others can interpret what they mean

slowhand99

June 6th, 2009, 04:04 PM

View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/25qx10g/5)

great footage. You must have been very persuasive to get them to give you close up access to the site

can we tell from this whether we are on track to meet the timetable set out in last update?

slowhand99

June 6th, 2009, 04:19 PM

DxbPC

June 8th, 2009, 06:07 PM

With everyone speculating about the hotel market and will they, won't they i found this by a guy who might know stuff.
Video taken May 2009 at Arabian Hotel Investors Conference 2009 (AHIC)

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mI0eooesGpg&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mI0eooesGpg&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Marriott to open new HQ in Middle East.
Monday, 11th May 2009
Source : Marriott International, Inc.

In recognition of its rapidly expanding presence in the Middle East and its anticipated expansion in Africa, Marriott announced today that it will open a new regional headquarters in Dubai on Jan 1, 2010.

The office will greatly expand its current area operations in the region and its opening coincides with the 30th anniversary of Marriott’s participation in the region’s hospitality industry.

The new regional office will be responsible for the operations, finance, sales, marketing, human resources for five of Marriott International’s hotel and resort brands in the Middle East and Africa, including its JW Marriott, Marriott, Renaissance, Courtyard by Marriott and Marriott Executive Apartments brands. Today, the company has an area team in Dubai which reports into its London-based regional office.

“We are positioning ourselves to take full advantage of the unprecedented growth in tourism that the region is predicted to attract over the next decade,” said Ed Fuller, president & managing director of international lodging for Marriott International.

He said that some 68 million arrivals are expected in the Middle East by 2020. “Couple that with the global spotlight the FIFA World Cup will focus on the southern part of Africa in 2010 and you have the foundation for amazing growth despite the current economic difficulties,” he added.

Mr. Fuller said that Marriott’s portfolio of hotels in the Middle East and Africa has increased substantially since the company opened its first hotel in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in 1980.

“Today, we operate 22 properties spanning five lodging brands and totaling more than 6,500 rooms. We expect to more than double our presence in the region over the next 36 months as we add approximately 30 hotels,” he said.

In addition to the new regional office, Marriott International will continue to have a development team and a global sales office based in Dubai.

FWIW

June 8th, 2009, 06:29 PM

^^Great find Mark. :applause:

Yes, he should know! I think his eternal optimism might be infectious! :lol:

FWIW

June 10th, 2009, 07:04 PM

You have got to read this: (Thanks to DJRage for bringing it to my attention!)

http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/news/entrepreneur-profiles-and-lists/5644541/mark-stott-select-property.thtml

UK_TO_DUBAI

June 10th, 2009, 07:31 PM

Great Find....
£1.3 b Portfolio.....wow thats about £7.2b AED....In Dubai how many Developer have that kind of portfolio????

Anyone Photos Please....

Select_Property

June 10th, 2009, 08:30 PM

azlotia

June 11th, 2009, 12:24 AM

We wouldn’t normally comment on subjects like this not related specifically to this project, but we do think it worth clarifying some of the things that may be wrongly interpreted from the article referred to in this thread, which was written following an interview given some time ago and does not give a full and accurate impression of our business.

The £1.3billion value of developments mentioned is not a ‘portfolio’ but the value of projects Select Property has been involved in, largely as a sales agent and only recently as a joint venture partner with Select Group in the UAE who, as you know, are the developers and sole owners of the projects we have represented on Dubai Marina. Certainly we wish we had an asset value this high – or even half of it! ..but unfortunately you can’t rely on everything you read in press articles.

That being said, we do remain optimistic about our future prospects in Dubai and elsewhere by working hard to evolve our offerings as the market changes through the challenging times facing the off-plan property market.

What a load of tosh, after all this time you come up with this crap response. Just a word of advice, please do not bother passing your comments here and polute this thread if it is not relating to progress and/or something productive.

I dont know why I dont believe you and this response does not sound optimistic at all. Why dont you put your resources towards replying to customers emails, queries and most importantly towards finishing your uncompleted projects, rather than coming here and passing on these responses that create more stress and anxiety for all investors

Select_Property

June 11th, 2009, 12:48 AM

Select Property sends out project updates to keep all purchasers informed of construction progress and other contextually relevant news. If anyone does not receive these updates, please check that we have your current contact details on our system.

We have changed the style, frequency and content of our communication substantially this year in response to feedback from buyers, many of whom have acknowledged the changes positively. Outside of our routine updates, all communication relating to this development now comes from the developer, Select Group, directly.

Having read some of the comments in this thread, one would have to question how many people actually read the updates they receive from Select Property. In spite of our continual attempts to clarify what our business exists to do in contrast to the responsibilities of the developer we represent, it is regrettable that some contributors to this thread will seemingly never comprehend this. Select Property does not receive payments from purchasers of property in Bay Central, nor do we manage the construction of the buildings.

Through our project updates we have explained to all purchasers why the developer has taken all communication relating to payment collection, contract variations including payment relaxation, transfers of ownership and Land Department registrations in-house. Contact details for the developer have been provided for all of these subject areas relating to each development. This decision has been taken by Select Group themselves in order to control these important functions to their business more closely as they enter a new phase of delivery in their business during a period of challenging conditions in the market.

Select Property has always tried to offer its customers an informed and informative information service using a variety of media. Many of the comments we read here lead us to conclude that purchasers do not value this service and frankly, we do not earn any money for doing any of these things - some of the services we have provided do not therefore make commercial sense any more and we have to use our resources economically.

Although Select Property still very much exists, I'm sure nobody reading these pages has failed to notice that the market by which we came into existence is barely recognisable from twelve months ago. What we provide for customers going forward must be driven by the market and everyone connected with Bay Central and the other projects we have represented will have to adapt to come to terms with the changes as we have.

We make no apologies to people who invite us to comment on this thread and then condemn us for contributing our opinions. We look forward with interest to seeing whether the themes of discussion move with the times as well..?

azlotia

June 11th, 2009, 01:08 AM

clearly what you are trying to tell here that you are now no longer responsible for all the lack of communication, updates on your websites, any courtesy calls, customer service, anything.

What is select doing then, calling up distressed investors and selling them furniture packs, or maybe asking them to pay more of their installments via select money, that seems to be understaffed now as well, as most of the times the phone goes on answering machine. (oh sorry, is select money moved to dubai as well) maybe the developer has taken that away from you as well. I guess you are now not in the office as maybe too much rent to pay, so working from home maybe.

why do you think soo many people are complaining about Select these days. Its because they are not getting the service from your developer as they used to when the customer service was based in Uk. Since it has moved to Dubai, all the problems have arose.

Please do me a favour, if you care enough....please tell your Developers in Dubai to start caring about the emails and faxes and phones that all fellow investors send them...all the best to you and hope the theme on this thread changes too...

it wont happen automatically, you guys will have to work really hard to make this thread talking positively, as you have done a lot to make it all negative. Positiveness does not happen overnight. Work for it my man

azlotia

June 11th, 2009, 01:14 AM

"Select Property sends out project updates to keep all purchasers informed of construction progress and other contextually relevant news. If anyone does not receive these updates, please check that we have your current contact details on our system"

BTW, all my details are the same since the day of my purchase. How ironic that you easily find my details when it comes to sending me crappy newsletters selling Turkish properties, or even calling me to take your part ownership scheme

DxbPC

June 11th, 2009, 10:12 AM

This is more interesting...

With everyone speculating about the hotel market and will they, won't they i found this by a guy who might know stuff.
Video taken May 2009 at Arabian Hotel Investors Conference 2009 (AHIC)

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mI0eooesGpg&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mI0eooesGpg&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Marriott to open new HQ in Middle East.
Monday, 11th May 2009
Source : Marriott International, Inc.

In recognition of its rapidly expanding presence in the Middle East and its anticipated expansion in Africa, Marriott announced today that it will open a new regional headquarters in Dubai on Jan 1, 2010.

The office will greatly expand its current area operations in the region and its opening coincides with the 30th anniversary of Marriott’s participation in the region’s hospitality industry.

The new regional office will be responsible for the operations, finance, sales, marketing, human resources for five of Marriott International’s hotel and resort brands in the Middle East and Africa, including its JW Marriott, Marriott, Renaissance, Courtyard by Marriott and Marriott Executive Apartments brands. Today, the company has an area team in Dubai which reports into its London-based regional office.

“We are positioning ourselves to take full advantage of the unprecedented growth in tourism that the region is predicted to attract over the next decade,” said Ed Fuller, president & managing director of international lodging for Marriott International.

He said that some 68 million arrivals are expected in the Middle East by 2020. “Couple that with the global spotlight the FIFA World Cup will focus on the southern part of Africa in 2010 and you have the foundation for amazing growth despite the current economic difficulties,” he added.

Mr. Fuller said that Marriott’s portfolio of hotels in the Middle East and Africa has increased substantially since the company opened its first hotel in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in 1980.

“Today, we operate 22 properties spanning five lodging brands and totaling more than 6,500 rooms. We expect to more than double our presence in the region over the next 36 months as we add approximately 30 hotels,” he said.

In addition to the new regional office, Marriott International will continue to have a development team and a global sales office based in Dubai.

DxbPC

June 11th, 2009, 11:53 AM

We wouldn’t normally comment on subjects like this not related specifically to this project, but we do think it worth clarifying some of the things that may be wrongly interpreted from the article referred to in this thread, which was written following an interview given some time ago and does not give a full and accurate impression of our business.

The £1.3billion value of developments mentioned is not a ‘portfolio’ but the value of projects Select Property has been involved in, largely as a sales agent and only recently as a joint venture partner with Select Group in the UAE who, as you know, are the developers and sole owners of the projects we have represented on Dubai Marina. Certainly we wish we had an asset value this high – or even half of it! ..but unfortunately you can’t rely on everything you read in press articles.

That being said, we do remain optimistic about our future prospects in Dubai and elsewhere by working hard to evolve our offerings as the market changes through the challenging times facing the off-plan property market.

How about having an open forum one day where you answer all the relevant questions from investors to try and ease the situation. It seems to me that you are always to happy to state your own point of view whenever it tkaes your fancy however you avoid answering direction questions...even in the form of the PM i sent you!
If it's good enough for Shiek Mo surely its good enough for you?
Just a though that may allow a lot of rumours to be put to bed and allow us all to move on.
Please reply either way to this point. I would appreciate it.

Mark - 2 apts BCW

Mistermark

June 11th, 2009, 02:36 PM

How about having an open forum one day where you answer all the relevant questions from investors to try and ease the situation. It seems to me that you are always to happy to state your own point of view whenever it tkaes your fancy however you avoid answering direction questions...even in the form of the PM i sent you!
If it's good enough for Shiek Mo surely its good enough for you?
Just a though that may allow a lot of rumours to be put to bed and allow us all to move on.
Please reply either way to this point. I would appreciate it.

Mark - 2 apts BCW

I agree with this, though I'd like it to be with the developer (Select Group).

buster007

June 11th, 2009, 02:55 PM

Its sounds like they have sacked most/if not all of the sweet talking girls and the vast majority of you guys are now cursing :lol:

I must give it to SELECT though, in times of minimal interest or sales in off-plan properties, they introduce the concept of selling fractional ownership of properties in Dubai, Turkey, and Spain. Clearly, another scheme to bring the funds in. I bet my last dollar that they have no concept on how to administrate this in practice. Just let dreamers of a place in the sun fill their bank accounts. :ohno: ... I see more cursing investors in the future.

High Times

June 12th, 2009, 11:40 PM

http://i43.tinypic.com/a48rkg.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2zimxhz.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/29ei14x.jpg

High Times

June 12th, 2009, 11:46 PM

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hr3e40.jpg

ianthy

June 12th, 2009, 11:47 PM

thks for the pics - any idea what floor they have reached in the west tower?

ianthy.

FWIW

June 12th, 2009, 11:59 PM

Thank you HT old buddy!

Here's the pano:

http://i41.tinypic.com/fa5vdu.jpg

and here's the synth:

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=17330CE3-E0D5-457D-9C8F-34AF95AB657C

:cheers:

slowhand99

June 13th, 2009, 10:32 AM

great work HT and FWIW

Gheorghe348

June 13th, 2009, 12:45 PM

Wow this is flying up.

True Blue

June 13th, 2009, 03:00 PM

Wow this is flying up.

Yeah!!:okay:

Something like 12 floors since December 2008 and podium bypass. Amazing!

BTW After a hard slog in the gargen last night and 2000 midge bites, had a few cold beers and a re-read at this thread from the start. Had a brilliant laugh at the comments from late 2006 to early 2007.

The SP press releases are priceless.

I think I need to get Sky or something:laugh:

charlie big potatoes

June 13th, 2009, 03:50 PM

Wow this is flying up.

Check the Infinity and Silverene threads you may not be of the same opinion.

mick uk

June 13th, 2009, 08:45 PM

I'M RATHER CONFUSED!!... SP say they do not own any projects but the quote from the article that was posted on 10/6/09, Mart Stott quotes the following:

"Three years later, while other players in the market were exercising caution, Stott’s appetite for risk forced him to make the high-stakes acquisition of Aquitania that could have sunk the firm without a trace – instead, it made Select Property one of the largest players on the Dubai investment property market. "

A quick response back from SP saying they do not own any projects in Dubai and are just 'selling agents' seems to prove that they are not completely telling the truth!.. COMPLETE LIARS. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could I throw them!

Also payment was due on Aquitania by 1st June 2009. Have not received a default notice. Has anyone else receive default notices for this or any other SP projects from Dubai Select who are supposed to be the sole owners?

Morrismarina

June 13th, 2009, 09:43 PM

Morrismarina

June 13th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Can anybody answer this query I have:

The first 3 or 4 floors of these towers are going to be in the basement so why does it look like apartments are being built down there. Would it not make more sense to open these lower floors out and allow more space for parking ?? Or is it a structural issue, perhaps TB can help ?? (Just looks very odd to me).

amplesou

June 13th, 2009, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by bizzybonita
I thought you was luck down for good May 3rd, 2012 08:06 PM ... Thread's Playa

You sir (BIZZYBONITA) are appointed to moderate here NOT sit back and mess with, and BULLY members.

You have done this repeatedly with myself,despite my contribution to the D.Sc. threads and other since 2007..

My contribution to DSc is less because of your single handed ,sick minded bulling attitude imo!

take a look at your pointless tirade against me since the turn of the year below

I have repeatedly asked you and atlind, for your help for improvements to the Mess ,which your lack of "moderation" has led too in the first place on the DSc threads....

I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS !!!!!!

Profile Infraction
Reason: Random Post
July 3rd, 2011 06:06 PM by bizzybonita 3 / May 3rd, 2012 06:06 PM

Profile Infraction
Reason: Inappropriate Language
February 7th, 2011 09:28 PM by bizzybonita 1 / Expired

Profile Infraction
Reason: Posting random stuff/opening random threads
February 4th, 2011 02:21 PM by bizzybonita 2 / Never

Profile Warning
Reason: Wrong attitude
February 4th, 2011 02:17 PM by bizzybonita 0 / Expired

Bizzybonita your are one sick human being..

mick uk

June 13th, 2009, 10:31 PM

Hi Mick

I'll try and clear up the confusion. Here's a quote for a recent SP post which is in fact correct:

" The Torch, The Point, Bay Central, and Botanica, are all developed by Select Group, which is separate from Select Property both in terms of ownership and management. "

The other developments being West Avenue in the Marina and Pacific in RAK are being developed jointly by Select Group and Select Property. So SP is a developer with these projects and may also be a joint developer with SG in Aquatainia, though I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Hi.. Select Group International Limited and Select Property Group Limited are both registered with Companies House UK register of Limited Companies.

Both companies are strangely registered at the same UK address!! Interesting uh? considering they are trying to imply that they have nothing to do with each other.

Morrismarina

June 13th, 2009, 11:28 PM

I think you will find the floors in question are above the podium height and wall of the marina !

Look at the units marked in red they are clearly below ground level. :dunno:

http://i39.tinypic.com/8wa0au.jpg

True Blue

June 14th, 2009, 12:32 AM

The lower floors need to have an identical structural layout of columns and shear walls etc to allow the transfer of loads to the ground. Removing these structural elements gets complicated as they then need to add heavy beams etc.

The carparking will be in the part that has not been built yet and the compartments you see being formed will become plant rooms, store rooms and the likes centred around the lift lobbies.

mackie1964

June 14th, 2009, 09:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3rjrhLmbUs&feature=channel

Morrismarina

June 14th, 2009, 11:33 AM

Many thanks TB.

slowhand99

June 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM

Morris good to see you are back posting

To keep matters in context
- clear progress is being made on building the residential towers. Around 8 to 10 new floors have been built in the central tower since 12 March 09 for example
- the evidence is the hotel will be built and infact piling has started. Hoteliers seem very upbeat about Dubai
- all the BC properties have been sold
- BC is in a great location
- our purchase price is cheap. I have been looking at apartments in Melbourne but they are much more expensive for something equivalent to BC
- my contacts tell me the rental market and resale market have stabilised in Dubai. The effects of the credit crunch appear to have bottomed in many countries and most commentators expect a slow but gradual improvement.

In two years time when hopefully our apartments are close to being ready things may well look promising.

clearly if your cashflow is tight, you haven't bought forward and you live in the UK, you expected an easy profit and to be able to flip when you wanted, you expected delivery on time (when most developments are late in Dubai) and you did not allow for problems then you may well be unhappy.

if you are then thank your lucky stars you are in TB's position. He traps his thumbs on a daily basis, now is getting midgy bites by the thousand, lives in a very cold climate all year round and with no decent football teams to watch. No wonder he is a miserable **** .

buster007

June 14th, 2009, 01:32 PM

- our purchase price is cheap. I have been looking at apartments in Melbourne but they are much more expensive for something equivalent to BC
.

Is this guy for real - who gives a f*** about Melbourne? :ohno:

You must have your head in the clouds with your comments ..."the evidence is the hotel will be built and infact piling has started" - Visual evidence is that the hotel is not part of this development. Lets see what the coming months bring ...

MANUTD

June 14th, 2009, 01:45 PM

slowhand99

June 14th, 2009, 02:40 PM

Your really are easily pleased Slowhand - i'd like to as easily pleased as you - I don't know TB but suspect he knows just a "midge" more than you about Dubai and Construction

I certainly wish i'd followed his lead and bought in Cayan's projects rather than SP's /SG's - although he is very critical of DCE -- as time goes on I must say i am agreeing with him on everything

My point is if you've bought in BC is it an OK investment? Yes it is in my opinion especially if you can sit back for a couple of years without financial stress. There might be better investments and better developers and I am sure there are worse. There always is. BC looks to be an OK if not great investment. Time will tell.

TB knows the score. He knows it is easy to criticise SG (like it is easy to criticise the standard of Scottish football) but to go on about it week after week, month after month, year after year like has on the Point thread, the Torch thread etc? He needs to get a life. He needs to understand investors need balanced comments. My experience with BC in terms of delays is not much different than JBR and that has turned out OK as an investment. Good progress has been made since Xmas on BC. Many investors are glad of this.

Pictures from 040109

http://i39.tinypic.com/ve9jbl.jpg

Pictures from 120309

http://i42.tinypic.com/scxe1x.jpg

charlie big potatoes

June 14th, 2009, 07:39 PM

slowhand99

June 14th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Slowhand whens this going to end? Were you bullied as a kid?

at 6ft 4in 18 stone NO

don't like
- unstubstantiated comment
- inaccurate comment
- kerb layers
- smart arses

do like
- thoughtful comment and banter

it never ends

MANUTD

June 15th, 2009, 01:10 AM

at 6ft 4in 18 stone NO

don't like
- unstubstantiated comment
- inaccurate comment
- kerb layers
- smart arses

do like
- thoughtful comment and banter

it never ends

YOU WON,T PICK ON HIM NOW THEN CBP??:lol::lol:

Not going to make it over now this week mate

Keep the pictures coming if you can

BC sems to have stopped to me ??

Let me know what's happening at TP - see if the pad is ready to snag yet :lol::lol:doubt it ?
BTW has Spearmnt Rhinos conrirmed there yet ?????

FWIW

June 15th, 2009, 11:32 AM

at 6ft 4in 18 stone NO

don't like
- unstubstantiated comment
- inaccurate comment
- kerb layers
- smart arses

do like
- thoughtful comment and banter

it never ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie big potatoes View Post
Slowhand whens this going to end? Were you bullied as a kid?

Wow!! As a kid you were 6ft 4in and 18 stone???? Did you fall asleep in the greenhouse or something! :lol:

charlie big potatoes

June 15th, 2009, 02:30 PM

Sunny I will get you some pics later.

Imre

June 15th, 2009, 04:16 PM

15/June/2009

Park Island and Bay Central

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1207/imresoltdubaiphotos079.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/imresoltdubaiphotos079.jpg/)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5846/imresoltdubaiphotos080.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/imresoltdubaiphotos080.jpg/)

MANUTD

June 16th, 2009, 12:41 AM

IMRE -how far up the torch have u been ??

Imre

June 16th, 2009, 06:32 AM

66 and 67th floor:)

Beppe786

June 16th, 2009, 03:04 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/ajp6jo.jpg

DXBGO

June 16th, 2009, 05:58 PM

like a good joke :nuts:. cant see podium being finished in next 14 days.:bash:

DxbPC

June 16th, 2009, 07:22 PM

like a good joke :nuts:. cant see podium being finished in next 14 days.:bash:

It refers to the structure of west and central towers within the podium. Not the podium.

True Blue

June 17th, 2009, 01:43 AM

It refers to the structure of west and central towers within the podium. Not the podium.

That logic does not stand true, check the dates. If they are referring to the tower structure within the basement and podium only then the superstructure can't start until the floors below are complete.

Have a look at the same dates given for the hotel, superstructure complete 2 months after the podium (structure).:nuts: The logic is all over the place.

True Blue

June 17th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Just noticed that the construction on the Hotel is not scheduled to start until the end of this year. For Basement structure read Feb 2010. Feb 2009 is a typo.

Getting interesting:)

FWIW

June 18th, 2009, 12:13 AM

All pictures courtesy of CBP aka Peter! Taken on 14th June 2009...

http://i39.tinypic.com/2wdovfk.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2zog39i.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/28k3sqg.jpg

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http://i40.tinypic.com/28a14z8.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/6jo7cp.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/29m3xc9.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/e61zj4.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h3x6cx.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2nrlx5d.jpg

UK_TO_DUBAI

June 18th, 2009, 01:52 AM

Thanks Peter.........Great Pictures.....
Very Good Progress....

They got a new crane for the Podium work and
Installing bigger Crane between Central and Hotel tower....so work will be much faster for Central tower with 2 cranes like West Tower

Beppe786

June 18th, 2009, 01:30 PM

looks like new floor rising has slowed down and podium basement has started progressing

http://i42.tinypic.com/yl8ps.jpg

charlie big potatoes

June 18th, 2009, 03:42 PM

Taken today from the waters edge.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2iql2x2.jpg

DxbPC

June 18th, 2009, 10:45 PM

Taken today from the waters edge.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2iql2x2.jpg

Great photo even better view for those on that corner...fantastic

DxbPC

June 18th, 2009, 10:47 PM

looks like new floor rising has slowed down and podium basement has started progressing

http://i42.tinypic.com/yl8ps.jpg

i asked what the build rate was. one floor every 5 days with mechanical floors taking 12

slowhand99

June 18th, 2009, 10:58 PM

i asked what the build rate was. one floor every 5 days with mechanical floors taking 12

great photos. Thanks

progress is in line with pronouncements or thereabouts which is very comforting. :) Every week shows good progress towards our goal.

The doubters, shysters, kerb layers, non-investors, slimy estate agents, ill educated etc and the kind will think differently but who cares

Beppe786

June 18th, 2009, 11:18 PM

i dont think BC will have any mechanical floors?

Morrismarina

June 18th, 2009, 11:35 PM

If you look at the original Central Tower price list it shows the 13th and 31st floors as service floors. When I bought in West Tower I was told the 13th floor was a service floor although strangely there was a price quoted for it. :dunno:

DxbPC

June 19th, 2009, 12:07 AM

i dont think BC will have any mechanical floors?

It does have [at least] 2 in each tower.

MANUTD

June 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM

great photos. Thanks

progress is in line with pronouncements or thereabouts which is very comforting. :) Every week shows good progress towards our goal.

The doubters, shysters, kerb layers, non-investors, slimy estate agents, ill educated etc and the kind will think differently but who cares

Convinced you work for Mark now mate :lol::lol:

DXBGO

June 20th, 2009, 06:48 PM

[QUOTE=MANUTD;38491668]Convinced you work for Mark now mate :lol::lol:[/
MANUTD.
I agree with you.:banana:

slowhand99

June 21st, 2009, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=MANUTD;38491668]Convinced you work for Mark now mate :lol::lol:[/
MANUTD.
I agree with you.:banana:

he sacked me last week. I'm too lippy apparently

THFC

June 22nd, 2009, 09:03 AM

heckramsey

June 23rd, 2009, 07:04 PM

hi again just back and looking to gauge the property market in dubai.... whats the opinion of you guys....? :ohno: or :) or perhaps :banana:

slowhand99

June 23rd, 2009, 07:13 PM

hi again just back and looking to gauge the property market in dubai.... whats the opinion of you guys....? :ohno: or :) or perhaps :banana:

Heck

I wouldn't touch the Point or the Torch but Bay Central is a great investment :)

Beppe786

June 23rd, 2009, 07:20 PM

anyone any resent pictures? imre?

heckramsey

June 23rd, 2009, 07:23 PM

Heck

I wouldn't touch the Point or the Torch but Bay Central is a great investment :)

can i take that as informed info did you really work for mark? i nearly bought in cube but went for here did i make right call...

chelseaboy

June 23rd, 2009, 07:28 PM

I cant see how Bay Central will be any different in quality or investment potential than the Torch or Point. Same company same quality as i see it.

Beppe786

June 23rd, 2009, 07:53 PM

Advantage of bay central is that is if you have a front end apartment your get both up and down side view of the marina from your balcony

slowhand99

June 23rd, 2009, 10:17 PM

[QUOTE=DXBGO;38529930]

he sacked me last week. I'm too lippy apparently

oh, did you mean Mark Dxbpc or Mark of SP? I've worked for them both but don't rate either. Scallies. Would work for morrismarina, nice man (I've actually met him when we grilled Giles of SP sometime ago).

Wrong choice. Cube is no good but BC is great. Could be the finest in the marina when finished. Switch to BC if you can.

slowhand99

June 23rd, 2009, 10:31 PM

Advantage of bay central is that is if you have a front end apartment your get both up and down side view of the marina from your balcony

agreed. Central tower provides the best views I think.

Actually the views from some of the apartments in the Point must have fabulous views of the marina inc yatch club. Not sure about the views in the Torch. Hope nothing is built in front of it.

MANUTD

June 24th, 2009, 12:44 AM

I cant see how Bay Central will be any different in quality or investment potential than the Torch or Point. Same company same quality as i see it.
youre right there - unless SG come to their senses for BC quality

True Blue

June 24th, 2009, 01:12 AM

[QUOTE=slowhand99;38563032]

oh, did you mean Mark Dxbpc or Mark of SP? I've worked for them both but don't rate either. Scallies. Would work for morrismarina, nice man (I've actually met him when we grilled Giles of SP sometime ago).

Wrong choice. Cube is no good but BC is great. Could be the finest in the marina when finished. Switch to BC if you can.

There is something quite disturbing about your posts, hope you're not a member of a gun club:ohno:

UK_TO_DUBAI

June 24th, 2009, 02:44 AM

TB dont live in world of denial....BC can be great project in Marina...agree with Slowhand....just wait and watch

Imre

June 24th, 2009, 08:36 AM

24/June/2009

Bay Central

http://i39.tinypic.com/2pyqkxf.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hojwv5.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/264p1kl.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/nfk5fb.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/4qmzv7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/34gna5t.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/se0gfk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/jfbw3o.jpg

slowhand99

June 24th, 2009, 10:23 AM

24/June/2009

Bay Central

great photos, thanks

slowhand99

June 24th, 2009, 10:28 AM

TB dont live in world of denial....BC can be great project in Marina...agree with Slowhand....just wait and watch

TB is a member of the "glass is half empty" clan except in his case it is a "quarter empty". He is known as "the miserable **** from Argyle".

MANUTD

June 24th, 2009, 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=slowhand99;38689012]

There is something quite disturbing about your posts, hope you're not a member of a gun club:ohno:
:lol::lol:
I want SG to do well TB (because i have so much with them) but am with you on the issue of credibility -we will see how The Point is finally finished before passing final judgement

FWIW

June 24th, 2009, 11:10 AM

^^Thanks for the pics Imre!

Looks like good tower progress.

3 Months work:

http://i40.tinypic.com/34zkqd5.gif

slowhand99

June 24th, 2009, 08:07 PM

^^Thanks for the pics Imre!

Looks like good tower progress.

3 Months work:

hey thats good but you need to be sober to watch it

but you illustrate a good point that progress is broadly on track with the published plan

the miserable ****s ignore the evidence though. That is what catches them out and will, I think, continue to do so

charlie big potatoes

June 24th, 2009, 08:26 PM

slowhand99

June 25th, 2009, 11:09 AM

Slowhand you are looking at a very simple floorplate rise and little or no podium work. Take a look at Silverene, they are probably a floor lower and have the painters in. The M and E is about 3 floors below the top floorplate, complete wiring, plumbing and fire equipment is also at that level. This is a fantastic achievment. Only the concrete works are in progress at BC.

progress on Silverene has been great since day one. It is a model of how to do it.

BC is not progressing as quickly I don't think anyone doubts that. None of SG's developments have/will progress that quickly but they are progressing at a steady pace now which is broadly in line with their published milestones for BC anyway. Many investors in BC are happy with that in all the circumstances. They are not expecting miracles or to meet the original timescales.

TB and the like haven't grasped this basic point. He and others are not investors in BC and so they can be very cavalier in what they say. They compare SG with Silverene and other developments but there is no point. If anyone cares to read through TB and others posts on the Point and the Torch threads you will find they have made the same points over and over again and continue to do so on BC.

There is nothing in practice anyone can do about the rate of progress anyway. This has been discussed ad nauseam on all the threads and little if anything has been acheived.

As I said most investors are now happy with current progress and will continue to be happy providing it continues at the current rate which it looks like it will. Progress on the Torch and the Point has also been good this last 6 months or so. It looks like things changed at the developer last Autumn when they recruited a new project management team. There have been problems with finishes at the Point. The developer is new to developing and the Point is the first thing they have ever built. BC investors will be hoping the developer will learn from experience and my contacts say they will.

The only doubts in my mind relate to the hotel. I would like to see construction get underway as soon as possible.

Imre

June 26th, 2009, 12:46 PM

26/June/2009

Bay Central

http://i41.tinypic.com/2uosw46.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ign991.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/25f3wcw.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2eeasgh.jpg

Beppe786

June 26th, 2009, 01:29 PM

thanks imre.. is that one extra floor on the central tower.. need a close up on the hotel tower, to see whats happing in the sand

Beppe786

June 26th, 2009, 01:49 PM

central tower up to around 20th floor

http://i39.tinypic.com/122yxoy.jpg

Imre

June 26th, 2009, 02:01 PM

26/June/2009

Bay Central and Silverene

http://i42.tinypic.com/nyckk9.jpg

ianthy

June 26th, 2009, 02:18 PM

Thks Imre - I always look forward to your photos on a Friday!

FWIW

June 26th, 2009, 07:16 PM

central tower up to around 20th floor

http://i39.tinypic.com/122yxoy.jpg

:hilarious:lol::hilarious

Beppe786

June 27th, 2009, 02:06 AM

more of my handy work bored at work today...

http://i43.tinypic.com/4r6vk3.jpg

charlie big potatoes

June 27th, 2009, 11:18 AM

Great stuff Beppe, looks like they need to get a laser level on the hotel, sorry 3rd tower.

slowhand99

June 27th, 2009, 11:20 AM

Thks Imre - I always look forward to your photos on a Friday!

great photos again Imre. Thanks. We continue to make steady progress :)

MANUTD

June 27th, 2009, 11:59 AM

:lol:more of my handy work bored at work today...

http://i43.tinypic.com/4r6vk3.jpg

And I thought they were making ARABTEC's sort of progress
:lol:

FWIW

June 27th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Beppe - I hope you get commision...i'm sure a few 'armchair investors' have bought in Bay Central on the the strength of your pictures!!!

:hilarious

DxbPC

June 28th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Property prices up on Dubai Metro route
by Elsa Sunday, 28 June 2009

http://i39.tinypic.com/rr5bwm.jpg

STATION STOP: Homes close to Dubai Metro stations have increased in price, estate agents say.
It’s not due to open until September, but Dubai Metro is already starting to affect the city’s property prices with homes near stations selling for more money.

Flats in Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT), close to stations on Sheikh Zayed Road, are selling for 6.5 percent more than units further away, reported The National.

“For residential [sales] we’re seeing a higher demand because of accessibility to the metro, but this is only for properties situated almost directly outside a station,” said Michael Michael, the sales director of Landmark Properties.

Several other agencies told the daily paper that more people were enquiring about flats within walking distance of metro stations.

This is a positive sign for Dubai’s real estate market, which has had a difficult year with the prices of flats and villas plummeting by 34 percent, according to the Landmark Advisory.

The true extent of the metro’s effect over house prices will only be felt after the Red Line is up and running from September 9, some property experts said.

Andrew Delport, the head of property management at the Dubai-based property portal Gowealthy.com, said units near the metro would recover first.

He added that for the rental market, the metro would have the biggest effect on prices in Dubai Marina.

“With the metro on the Marina side of the freeway – you’ll definitely see the impact.

“If you look at the movement there, the tenancies, it’s much more vibrant than other places, and it’s good value for your money.

“It’s plateaued out and you’ll see rents there reacting to the metro, possibly more than anywhere else.”

glover

June 30th, 2009, 12:23 PM

back to dubai. the dirt ramp has been moved and piling work is taking place where the old ramp used to be. will post some pictures in 2-3 days.

Beppe786

June 30th, 2009, 12:28 PM

where will they make the site entrance now?

UK_TO_DUBAI

June 30th, 2009, 12:53 PM

back to dubai. the dirt ramp has been moved and piling work is taking place where the old ramp used to be. will post some pictures in 2-3 days.

Thats Great news Glover...Thanks for sharing the information...will wait for your photos....

glover

June 30th, 2009, 03:27 PM

the same place. the dirt ramp was moved further down toward the central tower.

where will they make the site entrance now?

Beppe786

June 30th, 2009, 07:14 PM

thanks glover look forward too your pictures..

Beppe786

July 1st, 2009, 02:24 PM

looking back at west tower counting the number of piles needed for hotel tower.. shouldnt be that many..

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/471/img0186am9.jpg

DxbPC

July 3rd, 2009, 01:37 AM

If you've got good eyes you can see West Tower in the distance...

Thanks to
02/July/2009

http://i43.tinypic.com/125rspf.jpg

glover

July 3rd, 2009, 12:08 PM

today around noon.excuse my photography skills, the blurriness you see is haze from the humidity i believe.

as you can see, this is one messy site! it looks like they have started work on the first basement level, moving from the west tower toward the hotel tower.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4375/img0270epm.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/img0270epm.jpg/)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7551/img0264n.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/i/img0264n.jpg/)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9370/img0271oar.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0271oar.jpg/)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1224/img0268w.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/i/img0268w.jpg/)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6987/img0269ctf.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/img0269ctf.jpg/)

Beppe786

July 3rd, 2009, 12:13 PM

great pix thanks.. looks like first basment level is coming along

UK_TO_DUBAI

July 3rd, 2009, 12:27 PM

Looks like Eearthquake in Dubai and Only BC has affected by that....why is so messy...looks like hotel tower and podium work is priority right now...

AltinD

July 3rd, 2009, 01:54 PM

^^ The logistic and art of storing things properly is not just a learned skill, but an ability in itself. It seams the contractor lacks people with such "abilities".

FWIW

July 3rd, 2009, 03:57 PM

Nice pics Glover - looks very busy and very messy.

Do you think they are trying real hard to catch up with the 'lost' year? Project management is also an ability I think they have 'challenges' with...

DxbPC

July 3rd, 2009, 04:27 PM

Thanks. Great photos and there is progress. see they've started the internal brick work on west tower too.
keep them coming

Beppe786

July 3rd, 2009, 04:34 PM

if you rem.. the point site was messy and not orgainised maybe DCE like working like that..

charlie big potatoes

July 3rd, 2009, 05:23 PM

And look what a nightmare that has ended up.

True Blue

July 3rd, 2009, 10:24 PM

if you rem.. the point site was messy and not orgainised maybe DCE like working like that..

The Torch is not any better. The mess at the top of the building is astoundingly dangerous. I have not witnessed such incompetence in all my career. How can this be allowed to happen on such an elevated, dense site with the public passing by below. So easy to trip and fall or kick something off the side and hit someone passing or driving by.

http://i40.tinypic.com/5ygldt.jpg

next time you jump in a taxi ask the driver to avoid the area.

http://i41.tinypic.com/30xim36.jpg

slowhand99

July 4th, 2009, 12:06 AM

thanks glover for the pictures. They show detail about what is happening at the lowest levels which we haven't seen for some time. They also show ongoing progress but the site looks congested with materials and somewhat untidy.

The photos show site access road has been moved forward presumably temporarily to facilitate further piling on the hotel. The earth for the new access looks like it now covers the piles they first did for the hotel. It looks like piling will be complete in accordance with the timescales in the last update from SP ie August.

when they start building the hotel I would think that access will not be possible be the latest route. How will access then be achieved?

I think once building starts on the hotel, there can be no doubt the site will be complete and they will be keen to finish as soon as possible so they can benefit from income from the hotel. I would think that the hotel chain is not contributing capital towards the build but just paying a fee to run it. In other words the developer is funding the build and this is the reason why progress shouldn't be slow.

heckramsey

July 4th, 2009, 01:39 AM

f*cking shambles recent pics show it .... just had a uk credit crunch project completed... tidy and on time to25%... but tidy and safe these pics display a death trap... questions must be asked if these pics are genuine............................................................................:banana:

why am i dancing you may ask.......

AltinD

July 4th, 2009, 01:42 AM

^^ Oh yeah, they're GENUINE ... unfortunatelly.

glover

July 4th, 2009, 09:03 AM

MANUTD

July 4th, 2009, 11:26 AM

i am getting a little bit more optimistic about the completion date given that Select was able to start handing over the Point July 1st. It looks like DCE is under a lot of pressure from Select to speed up construction.

on the other hand, i am getting more worried about quality because of that. maybe the hotel will help in keeping BC's quality up to par.

July 2011 finish minimum and that depends on hotel tower starting now !!

- and quality needs to improve

- my whole perception of SP has changed at present after seeing finishig at The POINT - in fact its putting me off Dubai now

- feel really let down but everything is in the contract I guess
will need t0 spend £30k more on my place to get it to luxury level that I expected - always have stuck up for SP/SG (young company going places etc) - but feel shafted at present

- BC was marketed quite clearly as 5 star so there could be a legal redress for some if 5 star is not delivered

real shame - trust is everything in my business in UK - it doesn't seem to wear over in SP/SG world - lets see what transpires now though in BC

chelseaboy

July 4th, 2009, 12:29 PM

MANUTD

July 4th, 2009, 12:40 PM

I agree with Man Utd and feel really let down at the quality of the work. It,s as if they just don,t care what you think.The excitement of owning an appartment in Dubai has been dampened considerably by SP/SG attitude and contempt. OK, perhaps things are different to what you,d expect in Uk, but its difficult to organize new kitchen, tiling and getting things up to the quality you expected when you live 7 hours away.

Hey mate we won't be argueing by Aug 15TH !! new season looking good for utd always wanted Owen and even predicted this

Yes with SP/SG I do feel let down seeing as I actually liked the guys I deal with - it seems the developers had other ideas - don't really know who to blame really but think I possibly want out of Dubai now unlees this is sorted out properly - we will see what happens over TP

amplesou

July 4th, 2009, 12:55 PM

That has to be the most dangerous site to work on !
(Hope they have a first aid box !:ohno:)
Looking at the amount of ruble there, has there been an accident or crane collapse or some thing !
In fact one wonders how dubai select (or what ever they are called now) get away with such poor site safety levels !
Somebody needs to rattle this mobs arse as far as i am concerned !
I am not an investor here in dubai marina but in dsc but i did nearly buy here
and a friend did but pulled out ( thats another story?) few !!
rant oveverover

UK_TO_DUBAI

July 4th, 2009, 04:12 PM

We know that SG is reading this

i am not a construction expert like TB but by looking this pictures...i m just shocked...look how messy the BC site is...junks are all over place...no proper storage.....

i think DCE should send their team to Silverlane Site and should attend some kind of Arbatec training programme....this is dangerous...

i have been following point, Toach and BC thread....progress wise its good but extreamly messy:ohno:

Morrismarina

July 5th, 2009, 08:16 PM

slowhand99

July 5th, 2009, 10:05 PM

Morrismarina

July 5th, 2009, 10:19 PM

100,000AED pa

Many thanks Slowhand, I'd be well pleased with that. :cheers:

DxbPC

July 6th, 2009, 06:23 AM

100,000AED pa

I think that sounds about right.

Beppe786

July 6th, 2009, 12:06 PM

deleted

MANUTD

July 6th, 2009, 03:28 PM

Anybody any idea how much my one bed (771 sq ft) Marina facing in West Tower would rent out for given the current state of the market ? (Assuming it was now built and handed over - it's 16th floor so should be able to see over Marina Keys to Yacht Club).

Slowhand says 100k aed -personally I think you'd be lucky at 70k aed at present just my opinion - what it'll be in 2012 god knows might be upto 100k again but doubt it some how

DXBGO

July 6th, 2009, 05:50 PM

Slowhand says 100k aed -personally I think you'd be lucky at 70k aed at present just my opinion - what it'll be in 2012 god knows might be upto 100k again but doubt it some how

70 to 80 k max for one bed as studios are going for 55 to 60k.
in 2012 it will depend on what policies govt adopts.if the policies are not very business or expat friendly then people are not going to move to dubai.
^^

SGrCRAP

July 7th, 2009, 07:32 PM

slowhand99

July 7th, 2009, 08:41 PM

Good afternoon BC gang,

I've set up a database for Point/Torch and BC owners who have issues with SP/SG. This project sprang from the Point but we soon realised there are loads of other SP/SG clients who have issues which they would like to air.

We're taking a series of issues to RERA which are mainly Point specific but if you've got any issues with SP/SG please send your details to pointowners@googlemail.com with a description of your concerns.

The more owners with genuine issues we can show RERA, the stronger our case will become and hopefully we can change the balance of power and stop being dictated to by SG who continuously bite the hand that feeds!

If we can get SG to deliver the Point as a fit for purpose building and put an end to the constant contractual jiggery pokery and goal shifting - it may well help you guys downtrack. Nobody in their right mind would sign docs which remove your right of ownership but SG's lawyers simply won't take this on board. Mix in an unfinished building, some 'quality seconds' and some horrible workmanship and hey presto - UNHAPPY PUNTERS!

Join us and help stop the rot!

pointowners@googlemail.com

a fair minded person can see the problem the developer potentially has with LLP buyers who rent out their property perhaps for a long time and immediately stop paying their instalments. what does the developer do? no instaments being paid and can't take possession of the apartment. You might say that no buyer would do this but the action and words of several users of this forum for the Point and the Torch eg Mistermark and the like indicate they would be prepared to do this. So I don't blame the developer for taking these steps and maybe they wouldn't have done if Mistermark and co hadn't shown and demonstrated what I regard as unwise and overly aggressive attitude and behaviour. I can't see you getting anywhere with your compliant on this issue because it is a sensible approach. The problem is only to do with this issue not being pointed out upfront. A solution is for you and others in your position to take out a similar mortgage to the LPP so you can pay the developer in full. I would have thought that these would be available on completion given you are talking original cost less perhaps 30% paid? already.

regarding quality of finish you should as a group of Point owners be able to resolve these issues. I don't know anyone who has bought new that hasn't had initial problems with snagging but they get resolved. BC is someway off completion and I expect the developer will have learned through their first experience with the Point not to repeat it with the Torch and then BC. SP have made this point to me. The reason the developer is going to kit out an apartment in BC in the coming months well before completion is so the construction company and buyers know what standard is expected. We have to wait and see.

I am not expecting luxury but just a functional finishing of medium quality. We haven't paid that much money for the apartments given their location. There isn't that much in these apartments anyway as most rooms are not large. If you wanted to upgrade yourself I can't see it costing that much.

clearly some investors were optimists and
- expected handover to be in accordance with the original schedule
- the finishing to be of luxury standard
- that they would make a guaranteed substantial profit by selling at any time even before completion ie the option to flip
- they could ignore the currency risk if they were UK buyers
- they could safely stretch themselves financially especially through using the LPP

more realistic investors
- expected the handover to be late as nothing goes according to plan in Dubai ie being late is the norm. A delay of 1 to 2 years was likely. This was the delay on the whole of JBR ie 40 towers
- given the price paid and BC's great location the finishing to be acceptable but not luxury. The price paid is similar to JBR whose finishing is purely functional in most apartments that I have seen
- financial risk was involved and nothing was guaranteed but on balance the risk/reward ratio looked very good ie should not make a loss and could make a very handsome profit either through renting or through a sale
- UK buyers took out some or all of the currency risk by buying forward
- didn't stretch themselves financially ie they bought one when they could have bought two on LPP or two when they could have bought three on LPP

this is not just being played out in Dubai but all over the world in all sorts of circumstances.

clearly the credit crunch has hurt us all but some more than others

I think handover for BC will be sometime in 2011 ie between 1 and 2 years late, the finishing will be acceptable and BC will prove to be a very good investment. I don't think the realists will be disappointed. The optimists will be

MOAF

July 7th, 2009, 09:18 PM

Slowhands :- Stop kidding yourself be realistic, your a intelligent guy.

Slowhands ,I certainly will not sign the LPP addendum for the torch and give up the ownership rights, if in the event the group went tits up my apartment will be the first asset the administrators will seize. SG have not been transparant from the outset, & they dont deserve any respect whats so ever. There are very manipulative corporate bunch but very business savy indeed.

I would not touch SG, selectproperty & their affilates with a "Barge pole" EVER

mackie1964

July 7th, 2009, 09:22 PM

a fair minded person can see the problem the developer potentially has with LLP buyers who rent out their property perhaps for a long time and immediately stop paying their instalments. what does the developer do? no instaments being paid and can't take possession of the apartment. You might say that no buyer would do this but the action and words of several users of this forum for the Point and the Torch eg Mistermark and the like indicate they would be prepared to do this. So I don't blame the developer for taking these steps and maybe they wouldn't have done if Mistermark and co hadn't shown and demonstrated what I regard as unwise and overly aggressive attitude and behaviour. I can't see you getting anywhere with your compliant on this issue because it is a sensible approach. The problem is only to do with this issue not being pointed out upfront. A solution is for you and others in your position to take out a similar mortgage to the LPP so you can pay the developer in full. I would have thought that these would be available on completion given you are talking original cost less perhaps 30% paid? already.

regarding quality of finish you should as a group of Point owners be able to resolve these issues. I don't know anyone who has bought new that hasn't had initial problems with snagging but they get resolved. BC is someway off completion and I expect the developer will have learned through their first experience with the Point not to repeat it with the Torch and then BC. SP have made this point to me. The reason the developer is going to kit out an apartment in BC in the coming months well before completion is so the construction company and buyers know what standard is expected. We have to wait and see.

I am not expecting luxury but just a functional finishing of medium quality. We haven't paid that much money for the apartments given their location. There isn't that much in these apartments anyway as most rooms are not large. If you wanted to upgrade yourself I can't see it costing that much.

clearly some investors were optimists and
- expected handover to be in accordance with the original schedule
- the finishing to be of luxury standard
- that they would make a guaranteed substantial profit by selling at any time even before completion ie the option to flip
- they could ignore the currency risk if they were UK buyers
- they could safely stretch themselves financially especially through using the LPP

more realistic investors
- expected the handover to be late as nothing goes according to plan in Dubai ie being late is the norm. A delay of 1 to 2 years was likely. This was the delay on the whole of JBR ie 40 towers
- given the price paid and BC's great location the finishing to be acceptable but not luxury. The price paid is similar to JBR whose finishing is purely functional in most apartments that I have seen
- financial risk was involved and nothing was guaranteed but on balance the risk/reward ratio looked very good ie should not make a loss and could make a very handsome profit either through renting or through a sale
- UK buyers took out some or all of the currency risk by buying forward
- didn't stretch themselves financially ie they bought one when they could have bought two on LPP or two when they could have bought three on LPP

this is not just being played out in Dubai but all over the world in all sorts of circumstances.

clearly the credit crunch has hurt us all but some more than others

I think handover for BC will be sometime in 2011 ie between 1 and 2 years late, the finishing will be acceptable and BC will prove to be a very good investment. I don't think the realists will be disappointed. The optimists will be

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Thanks for that, I really needed a good laugh :cheers:

Nearly as good as Morris in his early days but not quite :lol::lol:

MOAF

July 7th, 2009, 09:27 PM

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Thanks for that, I really needed a good laugh :cheers:

Nearly as good as Morris in his early days but not quite :lol::lol:

Mackie1964 stoppppppp it,stop picking on morrismarina,

BTW,you seem very positives these days ??????? Can I have some

True Blue

July 8th, 2009, 01:35 AM

........... BC is someway off completion and I expect the developer will have learned through their first experience with the Point not to repeat it with the Torch and then BC.............

I am not expecting luxury but just a functional finishing of medium quality. We haven't paid that much money for the apartments given their location. There isn't that much in these apartments anyway as most rooms are not large. If you wanted to upgrade yourself I can't see it costing that much.

you criticise the "optomists" then you show that you are one yourself with your quality and completion expectations.:nuts:

You actually did pay too much for your apartment, something I stated at launch. I even felt that Silverene was expensive although 20% cheaper than here and they will have higher spec appliances and marble floors etc.

Dubai Steve will back me up about my statement that anything over 1000AED/ft2 could be a risk as an investment. He reminded me of my foresight when average asking prices hit 2000AED/ft2. Market looks a lot different now!

Morris, rents are currently around 100AED/ft2 in the Marina so for your loss of income calc you should be around the 80,000AED mark.

podium

July 8th, 2009, 09:06 AM

you criticise the "optomists" then you show that you are one yourself with your quality and completion expectations.:nuts:

You actually did pay too much for your apartment, something I stated at launch. I even felt that Silverene was expensive although 20% cheaper than here and they will have higher spec appliances and marble floors etc.

Dubai Steve will back me up about my statement that anything over 1000AED/ft2 could be a risk as an investment. He reminded me of my foresight when average asking prices hit 2000AED/ft2. Market looks a lot different now!

Morris, rents are currently around 100AED/ft2 in the Marina so for your loss of income calc you should be around the 80,000AED mark.

True, I'm not saying I disagree with the 1000AED/ft2 estimate, but what I find difficult is how to gage 'real values'.

To where can we compare Dubai Marina......................and I'm specifically referring to the Marina, nowhere else. How about Canary Wharf? Lots of high rises, lots of HYPE, lots of overbuilding.............probably less cachet. Even today you won't get much change from £600/ft2 in CW, thats over 3500AED/ft2........................is it unreasonable to compare the Marina to that? Maybe?

How about mainland Spain, the Canaries, Cyprus? On the water, even now you will be lucky to find something under AED 2000/ft2. Florida, despite massive falls, try buying stuff on the water for less than AED 3000/ft2

Right now AED2000/ft2+, seems a long way off..............but is it really that unrealistic in comparative terms?

slowhand99

July 8th, 2009, 11:10 AM

100,000AED pa

this is based on rental agreement that I know of renewed 1st may 2009 on 1 bed in JBR of similar size to BC and overlooking BC. the apartment has white goods but no other furnishings. more than one offer was received at this rent.

regarding price of 1 bed apartments of similar size ie 700 sq ft or thereabouts, BC was £5k ie less than 5% more than JBR for delivery 4years later. prices in melbourne and other desirable places are much more expensive. that is why I think Dubai is relatively cheap

BC's location is fantastic with marina, beach, the Walk etc all being right on the door step. This is not the case with TT. There may also be demand to rent from the BC hotel but this is not that important

it will be interesting to see what Point investors get for rents

glover

July 8th, 2009, 11:23 AM

listings for Bay Central apartments on better homes site have gone done from 13 units to only 5 over the last two months. don't know what to make of it!

mine is listed there, but my agent said there were no inquiries whatsoever since i listed it back in April.

Mackie, what did you do with your unit! did you sell it below OP!!

SGrCRAP

July 8th, 2009, 12:19 PM

Beppe786

July 8th, 2009, 12:26 PM

^^ so people on the Standard plan are ok then?

glover

July 8th, 2009, 03:07 PM

today, around 3pm

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1545/24056809.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/24056809.jpg/)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8137/56685729.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/56685729.jpg/)

Grubbman

July 8th, 2009, 03:28 PM

Is it my imagination or have these towers grown somewhat since the last picture update?

DxbPC

July 8th, 2009, 04:31 PM

a fair minded person can see the problem the developer potentially has with LLP buyers who rent out their property perhaps for a long time and immediately stop paying their instalments. what does the developer do? no instaments being paid and can't take possession of the apartment. You might say that no buyer would do this but the action and words of several users of this forum for the Point and the Torch eg Mistermark and the like indicate they would be prepared to do this. So I don't blame the developer for taking these steps and maybe they wouldn't have done if Mistermark and co hadn't shown and demonstrated what I regard as unwise and overly aggressive attitude and behaviour. I can't see you getting anywhere with your compliant on this issue because it is a sensible approach. The problem is only to do with this issue not being pointed out upfront. A solution is for you and others in your position to take out a similar mortgage to the LPP so you can pay the developer in full. I would have thought that these would be available on completion given you are talking original cost less perhaps 30% paid? already.

regarding quality of finish you should as a group of Point owners be able to resolve these issues. I don't know anyone who has bought new that hasn't had initial problems with snagging but they get resolved. BC is someway off completion and I expect the developer will have learned through their first experience with the Point not to repeat it with the Torch and then BC. SP have made this point to me. The reason the developer is going to kit out an apartment in BC in the coming months well before completion is so the construction company and buyers know what standard is expected. We have to wait and see.

I am not expecting luxury but just a functional finishing of medium quality. We haven't paid that much money for the apartments given their location. There isn't that much in these apartments anyway as most rooms are not large. If you wanted to upgrade yourself I can't see it costing that much.

clearly some investors were optimists and
- expected handover to be in accordance with the original schedule
- the finishing to be of luxury standard
- that they would make a guaranteed substantial profit by selling at any time even before completion ie the option to flip
- they could ignore the currency risk if they were UK buyers
- they could safely stretch themselves financially especially through using the LPP

more realistic investors
- expected the handover to be late as nothing goes according to plan in Dubai ie being late is the norm. A delay of 1 to 2 years was likely. This was the delay on the whole of JBR ie 40 towers
- given the price paid and BC's great location the finishing to be acceptable but not luxury. The price paid is similar to JBR whose finishing is purely functional in most apartments that I have seen
- financial risk was involved and nothing was guaranteed but on balance the risk/reward ratio looked very good ie should not make a loss and could make a very handsome profit either through renting or through a sale
- UK buyers took out some or all of the currency risk by buying forward
- didn't stretch themselves financially ie they bought one when they could have bought two on LPP or two when they could have bought three on LPP

this is not just being played out in Dubai but all over the world in all sorts of circumstances.

clearly the credit crunch has hurt us all but some more than others

I think handover for BC will be sometime in 2011 ie between 1 and 2 years late, the finishing will be acceptable and BC will prove to be a very good investment. I don't think the realists will be disappointed. The optimists will be

In this instance i disagree with slowhand...
I dont think we should accept anything less than we were sold. If we wait until compltion it will be too late. I have personally started contact with SG to let then know my thoughts on The Point finish. My contact is very forthcoming with information and i have had more information in the past month from this guy than i had in two yrs with SP. I agree with the point group's idea and think that BC investors should join together now to make sure the quality, materials and finish is what we were sold and what is still on their websites.
Just accepting now we will get crap that can be fixed later at extra cost is bizaar.
We should start a group now and have an ongoing contact with SG to ensure everything is correct at handover. We might not get anywhere but we should still try.
Just my thoughts and opinions...
The latest photos look good. I see the first level of the podium is well underway.
Mark

slowhand99

July 8th, 2009, 06:54 PM

Is it my imagination or have these towers grown somewhat since the last picture update?

yes, progress has been very good. Thanks for the pictures Glover. They may well be keeping up with the plan to hand over Dec 2010. I am not expecting them to acheive this but the pictures show they are making steady progress. There has been a really dramatic improvement in progress in 2009 compared with 2008 and before

slowhand99

July 8th, 2009, 07:00 PM

Morning BC Crew,

I just got an email from a major lettings agency in Dubai - no names.

This is what they said.....

"I wanted to let all the owners know that the management team are asking that all tenants wanting to move in to an apartment on an LPP have to sign a separate tenancy contract involving the developer.

This has scared many tenants off already and I have lost really good tenants and great rents because of this contract.

May be the owners know this already but I just thought I would let them know"

So there you have it - the LPP is ruining the letting potential for owners who've signed it - never mind the fact SG now own their units in the Point.

Get's better by the second!

Help stop the rot -
pointowners@googlemail.com

you are wasting your time. For the reasons already given in an earlier post the developer's stance in this case is sensible and I can't see them or RERA changing their mind. Your solution is to take out a a mortgate on similar terms to LLP (which had interest rate of 8% or thereabouts costed in) so you can pay off the developer in full. As the unit is complete and you have already paid a chunk off the original cost and are only looking to finance the difference this should be doable. One of the posts on the Point thread says Barclays? are offering mortgages on the Point.

slowhand99

July 8th, 2009, 07:07 PM

^^ so people on the Standard plan are ok then?

Beppe, you have no worries if you are on SPP or pay the developer in full on completion if you are on LPP. There are no clauses in our contracts either stipulating that any rentals have to be a minimum of 6 months like there are for JBR

the developer's sole concern in this case is making sure if they haven't been paid in full and the unit is going to be rented out they can take possession if the instalments to them stop which is fair enough I think.

SGrCRAP

July 9th, 2009, 02:23 AM

you are wasting your time. For the reasons already given in an earlier post the developer's stance in this case is sensible and I can't see them or RERA changing their mind. Your solution is to take out a a mortgate on similar terms to LLP (which had interest rate of 8% or thereabouts costed in) so you can pay off the developer in full. As the unit is complete and you have already paid a chunk off the original cost and are only looking to finance the difference this should be doable. One of the posts on the Point thread says Barclays? are offering mortgages on the Point.

Slowhand, maybe I am wasting my time but there are some intrinsic issues which raise valid concerns which are:-

1) How can a developer issue a contract addendum without consultation or negotiation with the other party? This is mighty strange contract law even by Dubai's feeble legal standards. To deny occupation unless the docs are signed is effectively extortion and breaches the original agreement.

2) Where is the sense in removing an owner's ownership title if they sign an addendum? Where is the quid pro quo?

3) The securitisation section within the Addendum allows SG to use LPP forward revenue as collateral for future borrowing. This creates consequential losses for LPP owners in the event SG fold as their creditors would look to recover the collateral on which the loan was secured.

The smart route for SG would have been to write a clause which automatically reverted title to SG in the event an LPP owner defaulted on any component of the LPP loan obligation. The way the addendum currently stands the owners loose all legal rights of ownership if they sign and also expose themselves to total loss if SG go into liquidation, voluntary liquidation or default on any secured borrowing.

Contracts are about protecting both parties' interests not securing the self interest of one party at the expense of the other.

Your interpretation of 'sensible' appears to be somewhat distorted.

SGrCRAP

July 9th, 2009, 02:45 AM

SGrCRAP

July 9th, 2009, 02:52 AM

Quote from Slowhand....."more realistic investors....... - given the price paid and BC's great location the finishing to be acceptable but not luxury..."

Be careful what you wish for!

http://www.qdrive.net/home/images/thumbnail.php?filename=DSC00746.jpg&height=200&fileid=11947&userid
http://www.qdrive.net/home/images/thumbnail.php?filename=DSC00797.jpg&height=200&fileid=11955&userid
http://www.qdrive.net/home/images/thumbnail.php?filename=DSC00749.jpg&height=200&fileid=11948&userid

If you're concerned email your details to the the Point/Torch/BC user group - pointowners@googlemail.com - tell us what your issues are and we'll log them on our database and keep you in the loop on all group comminications.

slowhand99

July 9th, 2009, 10:34 AM

Slowhand- One other thing - Why would anyone on an LPP be interested in an 8% mortage rate elsewhere? The TP LPP credit facility was 10% over 5 year or 2% per annum. Where is the logic in locking yourself into a rate which is 400% higher over a 10 year term? :nuts:

Sorry but I didn't make clear in my earlier post, I mentioned the 8% only to indicate the inbuilt rate you were paying now and presumably a new mortgage might be cheaper than LPP (it would be in the UK by a long way). So if you took out a mortgage you may up with lower repayments and no issues over ownership.

I think the developer would want to divest themselves of the responsibility of collecting LPP once the building is complete because that is not the business they are in. Presumably this is what is behind the "securisation" etc. This process as you probably know is a normal part of banking.

My point is irrespective how buyers feel the developer can't back down over this issue because of the financial risk to them. Taking out a mortgage solves the issue for both parties and the buyer shouldn't be in a markedly worse position and may well be in a better position because of cheaper payments.

slowhand99

July 9th, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote from Slowhand....."more realistic investors....... - given the price paid and BC's great location the finishing to be acceptable but not luxury..."

Be careful what you wish for!

.

clearly the photos show poor workmanship. This must be a great irritation to Point owners. The developer and SP have admitted problems with finishing and have said this will not happen at the Torch and BC. The developer is going to set up a show apartment in the next few months in BC and commit to delivering this quality. BC and Torch owners will be hoping that the developer has learned from their first project at the Point. Time will tell whether they do.

Presumably the developer is putting right the finishing problems at the Point?

SGrCRAP

July 9th, 2009, 11:10 AM

clearly the photos show poor workmanship. This must be a great irritation to Point owners. The developer and SP have admitted problems with finishing and have said this will not happen at the Torch and BC. The developer is going to set up a show apartment in the next few months in BC and commit to delivering this quality. BC and Torch owners will be hoping that the developer has learned from their first project at the Point. Time will tell whether they do.

Presumably the developer is putting right the finishing problems at the Point?

Slowhand, Yes, Paul Brady at SG seems to be working hard trying to get things sorted out. I think the weak links are elsewhere in SG. The handover process has been a disaster with a number of units still in pre-snag (most probably in similar condition to the pictures above) but SG still announcing the project was completed on 30th June. The SPA states the maintenance funds become due when the building is complete so we're all paying maintenance for units we can't live in until they're completed properly. At over 100 quid maintenance a week for a 3 bed it's not a lot of fun!

Arse about face but not unsurprising as they were desperate to stop getting hit on late delivery penalties - However I still think owners could exercise this option if they read their contracts carefully!!

mackie1964

July 9th, 2009, 11:23 AM

DCE has / had a show apartment in every building they constructed and that did not stop them delivering bad quality.

SP/SG = DCE = Bad workmanship, bad quality, very inexperienced workers and supervisors that do not give a **** about quality. Dress it which ever way you want, I have been into the Torch .......... exactly the same and I can assure you BC will be the same.

It has nothing to do with SP/SG learning, they are not undertaking the work :cheers:

True Blue

July 9th, 2009, 11:27 AM

this is based on rental agreement that I know of renewed 1st may 2009 on 1 bed in JBR of similar size to BC and overlooking BC. the apartment has white goods but no other furnishings. more than one offer was received at this rent.

regarding price of 1 bed apartments of similar size ie 700 sq ft or thereabouts, BC was £5k ie less than 5% more than JBR for delivery 4years later. prices in melbourne and other desirable places are much more expensive. that is why I think Dubai is relatively cheap

BC's location is fantastic with marina, beach, the Walk etc all being right on the door step. This is not the case with TT. There may also be demand to rent from the BC hotel but this is not that important

it will be interesting to see what Point investors get for rents

I need that one explained to me. Are you talking about resales? JBR original prices were around 500AED/ft2. BC was considerably more.

True Blue

July 9th, 2009, 11:33 AM

In this instance i disagree with slowhand...
I dont think we should accept anything less than we were sold. If we wait until compltion it will be too late. I have personally started contact with SG to let then know my thoughts on The Point finish. My contact is very forthcoming with information and i have had more information in the past month from this guy than i had in two yrs with SP. I agree with the point group's idea and think that BC investors should join together now to make sure the quality, materials and finish is what we were sold and what is still on their websites.
Just accepting now we will get crap that can be fixed later at extra cost is bizaar.
We should start a group now and have an ongoing contact with SG to ensure everything is correct at handover. We might not get anywhere but we should still try.
Just my thoughts and opinions...
The latest photos look good. I see the first level of the podium is well underway.
Mark

We agree on something:)

The point I have been making since day one of Select launches. The prices are premium so ensure you get premium quality buildings and finishes. Evidence now is that they are not any better than average and the appliances are below average.

Get stuck in to them now before it's too late. Adopting the Slowhand nicey nicey approach will get you no where.

SGrCRAP

July 9th, 2009, 01:37 PM

We agree on something:)

The point I have been making since day one of Select launches. The prices are premium so ensure you get premium quality buildings and finishes. Evidence now is that they are not any better than average and the appliances are below average.

Get stuck in to them now before it's too late. Adopting the Slowhand nicey nicey approach will get you no where.

BANG ON True Blue. The show apartments are simply a sales & marketing stunt. I don't know of any Point owners who have been given a dog and pony show in the show unit. Once they've got your deposit and a signed SPA they couldn't give a flying **** about making you feel cosy about your investment.

I've been banging away at Select Property to step up to the plate and bring SG to task over the finish. SP need to take corporate responsibility and address the clear gap between what was sold and what's being delivered.

As SP are UK registered is there a trading standards remedy we could pursue? Mistermark, True Blue, High Times - this might be an area you guys may know more about. SP must realise (despite protesting their independance) that they are brand tied to whatever tosh their development partner delivers.

One other thing - Much PR mas made out of Sarah Selects (Sarah Fergusson's charity tie up with Select) Does she realise what she's partnered up with?

Mistermark

July 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM

Beppe786

July 9th, 2009, 04:21 PM

who ever bought the show apartment.. gets the best finished apartment in the whole tower

FWIW

July 9th, 2009, 05:42 PM

^^I'm sure that will be Stotty's or Rahail's pad...the rest of us lot can decorate our own bloody appartments.

:dunno:

:lol:

slowhand99

July 9th, 2009, 11:26 PM

who ever bought the show apartment.. gets the best finished apartment in the whole tower

I asked them to use mine!

slowhand99

July 9th, 2009, 11:30 PM

I need that one explained to me. Are you talking about resales? JBR original prices were around 500AED/ft2. BC was considerably more.

based on the price that was paid to SP about 2005 ( exact date can't be check at present as owner not at home). The figure is accurate and more than double the price per sq ft you quote.

FWIW

July 9th, 2009, 11:50 PM

slowhand99

July 9th, 2009, 11:52 PM

I'll limit my response to the accusations you make about me, leaving others to respond to your comments about The Point and Bay Central.

I terminated my Sale and Purchase Agreements on three Torch apartments on 1 July 2009, as permitted by Clause 15.3 of the Sale and Purchase Agreements (that's the bit that says both buyer and seller have the right to terminate if the developer can't give possession and occupation by 30 June 2009 and the developer has invoked force majeure). Accordingly, I hope to receive a refund of all sums paid to date within 20 Business Days.

Whether or not I receive that refund, having cancelled the Agreements, I'm not obliged to make any further instalments under the LPP.

What's 'unwise and overly aggressive' (your words) about my decision not to continue making mortgage-type payments on properties I no longer own?

I appreciate the developer has a legitimate concern about people who don't terminate their agreements and instead chose to take delivery of their apartments, who tenant them and then get into arrears with the LPP. However, the SPA already contains provisions for them to take over ownership of the property, sell it, and keep much of the proceeds. The fact that there's a tenant needn't get in the way of doing any of these things.

I'm quite a principled person and my approach in my business and personal lives can be summed up in a phrase 'I do what I say I'll do'. I expect the same from others. Where a contract exists, as with the SPA for a property, I look to the developer to honour its obligations, or provide fair recompense.

Do you agree with these principles, and if so, do you think they should also apply to Select Group?

If you think they should, do you think it is reasonable for customers to take all reasonable steps, within the law of course, to persuade or compel the developer to meet its obligations, if confronted with clear instances of it failing to do so?

you know of the threats etc that you made to SP and the developer over quite a period. you have made many quite negative posts also on this forum which have unsettled some investors who don't quite understand your extreme views

your actions were a major contributor to SP handing back communiction with us to the developer.

what have you actually acheived in practice for investors generally? nothing but scaremongering

the hard facts are there is nothing you can't do about many of the complaints ie delays, pyts being ahead of progress etc because of the legal set up, SP only being the sales agent. You are just huffing and puffing like many before you because you do not understand the realities and practical difficulties in acheiving anything. You are nothing more than a buggeration factor that is making it more difficult for investors to acheive their aims.

many investors are only interested in taking possession of their apartments. Progress until 2009 was way too slow. Now it has speeded up and we have a timetable that is accepted to them. The issue of poor finishing may not happen with BC. Why worry now about it? handover may well be two years away. what can you do about it now? how do you know there will be a problem?

slowhand99

July 10th, 2009, 12:02 AM

^^Your 'guy' obviously got a good deal from SP then...NOT!

Never understood why people just didn't go direct to jbr sales centre :dunno:
(the one in Dubai, not in Manchester:lol:)??

True Blue tells you the truth...I won't give an exact figure as it may bring some grown men to tears, but 500aed psf is close enough...

the price in dubai was similar. My contact was happy with the price at the time. prices obviously change over time. It depends at what point in the cycle you bought. not many apartments were left. his rental return has been 12%+ on purchase price so not a bad investment then

I don't beleive 500 AED sq ft that was less than £60,000

DXBGO

July 10th, 2009, 12:15 AM

the price in dubai was similar. My contact was happy with the price at the time. prices obviously change over time. It depends at what point in the cycle you bought. not many apartments were left. his rental return has been 12%+ on purchase price so not a bad investment then

I don't beleive 500 AED sq ft that was less than £60,000

for a change listen to others slowhand. FWIW is right price was around 500 aed/aq ft for jbr. this is when everyone wanted one on the palm.AT that time no one wanted an apartment in jbr.I was a year late and pad 656 aed/sq ft.
FWIW you are absolutely correct.:banana:

slowhand99

July 10th, 2009, 12:24 AM

BANG ON True Blue. The show apartments are simply a sales & marketing stunt. I don't know of any Point owners who have been given a dog and pony show in the show unit. Once they've got your deposit and a signed SPA they couldn't give a flying **** about making you feel cosy about your investment.

I've been banging away at Select Property to step up to the plate and bring SG to task over the finish. SP need to take corporate responsibility and address the clear gap between what was sold and what's being delivered.

As SP are UK registered is there a trading standards remedy we could pursue? Mistermark, True Blue, High Times - this might be an area you guys may know more about. SP must realise (despite protesting their independance) that they are brand tied to whatever tosh their development partner delivers.

One other thing - Much PR mas made out of Sarah Selects (Sarah Fergusson's charity tie up with Select) Does she realise what she's partnered up with?

you are just pissed off because you are on LPP and have a problem to deal with now. solve your problem and save money take out a mortgage

you are in the mistermark mould ie a buggeration factor who raises much heat and acheives nothing except make the developer less likely to cooperate with investors. You don't understand the practical limitations of what you can do. You are trying to rally the troops. This has been tried many times before. I was part of the first wave re BC when progress was desparately slow but nothing happened because
- legally it is too difficult
- there is no consensus about what to do and who will pay for lawyers etc
- SP are not bothered now because they have loss the goodwill of the existing customers because of the actions of the developer and because of people like mistermark
- the developer is not bothered full stop what investors think. It is a cultural thing and won't change.

having said all that progress on BC is going well now. they are delivering what they say in their updates. handover may be ontime with the new schedule ( I thik they will be late though). finishing on BC may be acceptable, we don't have a problem now.

mistermark, you and TB are just buggeration factors that spout off without any real understanding of what you can acheive with the developer ie nothing. he is ploughing his own furrow but the investors will get their properties and sooner than we thought in 2008. that's it, that's the position

if you review all the complaints and negative comments that have been made on the Point and the Torch and BC over the past few years, and the heat and stress that has been generated for investors by the numpties, ill educated, kerb layers and the like you will realise that it has been a waste of time and sometimes reckless and ill considered

you are just perpetuating this. For instance you say "I've been banging away at Select Property to step up to the plate and bring SG to task over the finish." This is a clear illustration that you understand absolutely nothing about the core relationship between the developer and SP

True Blue

July 10th, 2009, 12:48 AM

you are just pissed off because you are on LPP and have a problem to deal with now. solve your problem and save money take out a mortgage

you are in the mistermark mould ie a buggeration factor who raises much heat and acheives nothing except make the developer less likely to cooperate with investors. You don't understand the practical limitations of what you can do. You are trying to rally the troops. This has been tried many times before. I was part of the first wave re BC when progress was desparately slow but nothing happened because
- legally it is too difficult
- there is no consensus about what to do and who will pay for lawyers etc
- SP are not bothered now because they have loss the goodwill of the existing customers because of the actions of the developer and because of people like mistermark
- the developer is not bothered full stop what investors think. It is a cultural thing and won't change.

having said all that progress on BC is going well now. they are delivering what they say in their updates. handover may be ontime with the new schedule ( I thik they will be late though). finishing on BC may be acceptable, we don't have a problem now.

mistermark, you and TB are just buggeration factors that spout off without any real understanding of what you can acheive with the developer ie nothing. he is ploughing his own furrow but the investors will get their properties and sooner than we thought in 2008. that's it, that's the position

if you review all the complaints and negative comments that have been made on the Point and the Torch and BC over the past few years, and the heat and stress that has been generated for investors by the numpties, ill educated, kerb layers and the like you will realise that it has been a waste of time and sometimes reckless and ill considered

you are just perpetuating this. For instance you say "I've been banging away at Select Property to step up to the plate and bring SG to task over the finish." This is a clear illustration that you understand absolutely nothing about the core relationship between the developer and SP

I'm seeing more cracks appearing. I really do hope you are not a member of a gun club.:runaway:

SGrCRAP

July 10th, 2009, 08:25 AM

you are just pissed off because you are on LPP and have a problem to deal with now. solve your problem and save money take out a mortgage
[SGrCRAP: Were you absent when they taught Maths at school? - you will not get a better deal than the Point LPP at 2%/annum - Yes, Of course I'm pissed off SG are trying to force a contractual change which hasn't been negotiated and has no quid pro quo - any normal person would be - why should people be forced to re-finance at a higher rate - you will certianly not save money!]

you are in the mistermark mould ie a buggeration factor who raises much heat and acheives nothing except make the developer less likely to cooperate with investors. You don't understand the practical limitations of what you can do. You are trying to rally the troops. This has been tried many times before. I was part of the first wave re BC when progress was desparately slow but nothing happened because
[SGrCRAP: BC is years away from being ready - timing is everything in life - you rallied your troops way too early on BC]
- legally it is too difficult [SGrCRAP: Going to the Moon was 'difficult' but we still did it - don't you like a challenge? - Obviously not]
- there is no consensus about what to do and who will pay for lawyers etc
[SGrCRAP: Really.... a lawyer has been appointed for Point LPP owners and we are awaiting analysis of the docs]
- SP are not bothered now because they have loss the goodwill of the existing customers because of the actions of the developer and because of people like mistermark [SGrCRAP: If SP aren't bothered why do they post on the Point thread trying to distance themselves from SG? Of course they're bothered - they're business is brand tied to SG and the generic temperature guage of investors in SG developments]
- the developer is not bothered full stop what investors think. It is a cultural thing and won't change. [SGrCRAP: We agree on something! SG are not bothered but they will be fairly shortly if/when the international press zone in on them]

having said all that progress on BC is going well now. they are delivering what they say in their updates. handover may be ontime with the new schedule ( I thik they will be late though). finishing on BC may be acceptable, we don't have a problem now. [SGrRAP: The Point shot up quite quickly but pouring concrete means nothing - it's all about the finish - BC 'MAY' be well finished - it 'MAY' not. If you think the developer couldn't give a monkeys what makes you think they'll pull out the stops for you at BC when the Torch looks to be a mirror image - in finish terms - to the Point - same materials - same crap install team! - History repeating intelf! Also, BC is a much larger development than the rest and when SG are up against the clock - you know what happens!!]

mistermark, you and TB are just buggeration factors that spout off without any real understanding of what you can acheive with the developer ie nothing. he is ploughing his own furrow but the investors will get their properties and sooner than we thought in 2008. [SGrCRAP: Slowhand is a good username for you - it's 2009 mate. What is wrong with trying to apply pressure on someone who is ripping you off. Do you pull your pants down and say "here please sir" or man up, grow a spine and do something about it? In this world there are Winners and Losers - Fundamentally we must all decide which one we want to be!]that's it, that's the position

if you review all the complaints and negative comments that have been made on the Point and the Torch and BC over the past few years, and the heat and stress that has been generated for investors by the numpties, ill educated, kerb layers and the like you will realise that it has been a waste of time and sometimes reckless and ill considered

you are just perpetuating this. For instance you say "I've been banging away at Select Property to step up to the plate and bring SG to task over the finish." This is a clear illustration that you understand absolutely nothing about the core relationship between the developer and SP

[SGrCRAP: We'll see about whether SP are happy to get their brand name ruined by SG in due course. I think you may have underestimated the resolve of certain individuals - your assumptions are based on what you read here when in fact there is more going on behind the scenes than you think. NOTE: I have not made any derrogatory remark about you and I will refrain from stooping to this level. This is about discussion not finger pointing and you are certainly entitled to your oppinion. I trust you will consider this in your future defence of SG/SP who you clearly hold in high regard.

........Slowhand99- One final point - You may actually benefit from what we're doing at the Point so I wouldn't be too quick to discredit people who want to make a stand. If I were you I would just sit back and watch what happens rather than tell us our actions are futile. Assuming you are a real investor in BC - I have my doubts! - I'd be applauding the Point owners and saying come on boys, blaze a trail and set precedent for us so we don't have to go through this as well! Just a thought. Good day to you.

DxbPC

July 10th, 2009, 09:38 AM

........Slowhand99- One final point - You may actually benefit from what we're doing at the Point so I wouldn't be too quick to discredit people who want to make a stand. If I were you I would just sit back and watch what happens rather than tell us our actions are futile. Assuming you are a real investor in BC - I have my doubts! - I'd be applauding the Point owners and saying come on boys, blaze a trail and set precedent for us so we don't have to go through this as well! Just a thought. Good day to you.

I agree...slowhand calm down or you will have nobody left to go for a pint with on completion.
Remember everybody is different and is allowed different opinions.

Mistermark

July 10th, 2009, 11:00 AM

you know of the threats etc that you made to SP and the developer over quite a period. you have made many quite negative posts also on this forum which have unsettled some investors who don't quite understand your extreme views

your actions were a major contributor to SP handing back communiction with us to the developer.

what have you actually acheived in practice for investors generally? nothing but scaremongering

the hard facts are there is nothing you can't do about many of the complaints ie delays, pyts being ahead of progress etc because of the legal set up, SP only being the sales agent. You are just huffing and puffing like many before you because you do not understand the realities and practical difficulties in acheiving anything. You are nothing more than a buggeration factor that is making it more difficult for investors to acheive their aims.

many investors are only interested in taking possession of their apartments. Progress until 2009 was way too slow. Now it has speeded up and we have a timetable that is accepted to them. The issue of poor finishing may not happen with BC. Why worry now about it? handover may well be two years away. what can you do about it now? how do you know there will be a problem?

What threats have I made to the SP and developer? Do you consider them unreasonable - and if so, why?

SP didn't want to cease communicating with us. The developer decided to take this on themselves.

I haven't achieved anything for investors, but then I haven't yet had to take the steps that would be likely to result in the developer changing its attitude to meeting is contractual obligations. Also, I can't do that alone - I need the support of other investors. People like you - actually, you, specifically - making out that I'm 'extreme' doesn't help with this.

I can't do anything about the fact that Bay Central, or any other SG project, is years behind schedule. As regards the abysmal quality of The Point, I suspect that the good work being done by others on this forum, rather than myself, will result in BC being better finished - even if it's too late to help me, a buyer in The Torch. You might try showing some gratitude to the individual who's leading that process.

DXBGO

July 10th, 2009, 12:05 PM

What threats have I made to the SP and developer? Do you consider them unreasonable - and if so, why?

SP didn't want to cease communicating with us. The developer decided to take this on themselves.

I haven't achieved anything for investors, but then I haven't yet had to take the steps that would be likely to result in the developer changing its attitude to meeting is contractual obligations. Also, I can't do that alone - I need the support of other investors. People like you - actually, you, specifically - making out that I'm 'extreme' doesn't help with this.

I can't do anything about the fact that Bay Central, or any other SG project, is years behind schedule. As regards the abysmal quality of The Point, I suspect that the good work being done by others on this forum, rather than myself, will result in BC being better finished - even if it's too late to help me, a buyer in The Torch. You might try showing some gratitude to the individual who's leading that process.
well said:cheers:

UK_TO_DUBAI

July 10th, 2009, 02:03 PM

Imre

July 10th, 2009, 02:12 PM

selling any off plan in Dubai almost impossible, even at the original price or less.

You have to be very very lucky I would say , but you should try it , expatriates.com, dubizzle.com etc..

Imre

July 10th, 2009, 02:14 PM

10/July/2009

Bay Central

http://i30.tinypic.com/kb7uo3.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/rgzc6o.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2vifucl.jpg

Beppe786

July 10th, 2009, 02:19 PM

thanks imre

we have floor numbers so looks like we are on the 6th/7th apartment floor

Mistermark

July 10th, 2009, 02:28 PM

May sell my Apartment which is on 29th floor -Central Tower and its type 01 -- Marina Yatch Club + Sea View...696 sq ft...OP - 975000 AED + paid 1% reg fee for RERA reg.. on LPP which is around 14000 AED

I am on LPP..and would like to sell my flat around 925000 AED..h

just need an openion about the price...

i am sure in futute...this will be a great development and i would love to hang around upto finish..can stratch upto January 2010..

Is it wise to wait until Jan 2010???

has anyone sold???

Anyone Intrested ...pls pm me...

I know this is not a right place for Advertisement...but i just posted because i can get some honest openion about prices...

Properties under construction are worth less than completed ones because (i) there's no rental income, or ability to occupy, for some time and (ii) there's risk about whether they will be completed. You can buy completed apartments for AED 700-1000/sq ft (actual transaction prices, not asking prices...). In addition there's a cloud over SG projects on the LPP due to the strokes they've pulled on The Point.

For all these reasons, I think you'd be very lucky indeed to find someone willing to take this off your hands at anything like what you're looking for. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :ohno:

UK_TO_DUBAI

July 10th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Jac23y

July 10th, 2009, 11:36 PM

Well...thanks for the info MM and Imre....i can fully understant what u mean...so i have to hang around atleast for a year...

thanks Imre for the pictures...good progress...may worth to wait for 9 months to 1 year
UK_TO_DUBAI - I would certainly hold off from selling and with a little bit of luck in atleast 12 months time you may be in a better position and may even want to retain it.

slowhand99

July 12th, 2009, 12:32 AM

I agree...slowhand calm down or you will have nobody left to go for a pint with on completion.
Remember everybody is different and is allowed different opinions.

BC progress going well, what is there to worry about

wouldn't want a drink with TB he is a depressive and might be especially miserable that day because his thumbs were sore. He is a clumsy **** according to his mate. Mistermark would be prattling on about what he was going to do to the developer and I would say but that was more than two years ago. Fortunately neither is an investor in BC. I do look forward to a drink with Morrismarina. :cheers:

Thanks for the pics Imre.

My apartments are built!

slowhand99

July 12th, 2009, 01:41 AM

Well...thanks for the info MM and Imre....i can fully understant what u mean...so i have to hang around atleast for a year...

thanks Imre for the pictures...good progress...may worth to wait for 9 months to 1 year

don't be influenced that much by non-investors in BC. There is a lack of real facts being published on this forum. Those who are estate agents are reluctant to say anything and the rest just assume or guess.

nothing authoritative has been quoted on rent or prices that apartments sell for. I have first hand knowledge of recent actual rental deals yet other say rental are 20% below. Doesn't make sense to me.

likewise there is no expert opinion on construction issues or selling prices of apartments amongst BC investors which is a pity. Sensible non-investors don't seem to post on the BC forum. We only seem to attract depressives and people who are dissatisfied with other investments unrelated to BC.

some of them rattle on about poor finishing. BC investors can wait to see what happens at the Torch before they can consider whether they should be worried. I'm not at all concerned.

there are not many buyers around anywhere (in the World) because of lack of available finance. Clearly if a development is 1 to 2 years away from completion buyers will favour apartments that are available now and so it is not a great time to sell BC apartments.

however in 6 to 12 months progress will be well advanced as most of the residential towers will be clad, the economy will be in steady state and buyers will be more willing to buy in BC

BC is in a fabulous location that will attract buyers and renters more so than the Torch and other towers

I'd stick with it. I think it will turn out rather well for BC investors.

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 09:13 AM

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 09:17 AM

BC progress going well, what is there to worry about

wouldn't want a drink with TB he is a depressive and might be especially miserable that day because his thumbs were sore. He is a clumsy **** according to his mate. Mistermark would be prattling on about what he was going to do to the developer and I would say but that was more than two years ago. Fortunately neither is an investor in BC. I do look forward to a drink with Morrismarina. :cheers:

Thanks for the pics Imre.

My apartments are built!

Slowhand - live with reality for once please - TB has more knowledge of Dubai and construction in his "thumbs" that you'l ever have in your head mate - he may knock SP but when you look at the facts he aint far wrong .

Imre

July 12th, 2009, 09:45 AM

12/July/2009

Bay Central

http://i27.tinypic.com/13z0tv9.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/ote0q8.jpg

glover

July 12th, 2009, 11:05 AM

month-over-month progress.

6 floors done on the west tower since June 4, while 4 were done on the central tower. still an average of about one floor a week even with the summer's 12.30-3pm break.

June 4

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5700/junv.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/junv.jpg/)

July 12

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4558/julr.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/julr.jpg/)

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 11:45 AM

So theres about 90 floors to do (inc Hotel tower) at 2 per week thats about a year without ANY fitting out - it's got to be 2 years + for completion at the very very earliest ?

DxbPC

July 12th, 2009, 12:01 PM

So theres about 90 floors to do (inc Hotel tower) at 2 per week thats about a year without ANY fitting out - it's got to be 2 years + for completion at the very very earliest ?

One floor per tower per week and hotel is seperate handover. So 26 weeks to top out. I think they have manipulated hotel tower for seperate handover so they don't incurr charges.
Regarding your statement "Slowhand - live with reality for once please - TB has more knowledge of Dubai and construction in his "thumbs" that you'l ever have in your head mate - he may knock SP but when you look at the facts he aint far wrong" i wouldn't judge people you don't know too well. SLOWHAND has vast expereience in Dubai property and Dubai and has more apartments in BC alone than TB has bought in total...While i have disagreed slightly recently with slowhand he does have first hand knowledge and likewise so do i. I have been going to Dubai for 27ish years and in the last 10 yrs about 5 to 8 times a year. I have done many property transactions in Dubai and have done many lease deals...but i don't preach or pretend to be an expert. I just tell the facts and offer an opinion based on experience.
This site is [imo] second to none and we will be very happy one day. Likewise property will start selling again and we will wonder what the fuss was all about. Try dealing with Diamond Investments of Marina Diamond fame if you think SG are bad. I could tell you a few stories...In fact i note TB is telling a story on another thread identical to something that happened to me regarding change of locks, police etc.
For once we should all stick together and move forward as a unit. All the speculation is just that...propoganda based on ignorance.
Cheers

Mark

Morrismarina

July 12th, 2009, 01:08 PM

I do look forward to a drink with Morrismarina. :cheers:

Look forward to a beer with you as well Slowhand. :cheers:

Progress is quite acceptable now. West Tower 35 floors 9 done so at a floor a week should top out in 26 weeks which is early January. Central Tower 45 floors 7 done so top out will be late March.

We should see some cladding going on these towers in about two month time.

Podium structure is vast and needs a lot of work but in 6-9 months time should be all done. So overall in 6 months time we will see a massive difference here.

I've been looking at rental rates by touring the various websites - Better Homes, Dubaidrizzle, Sherwoods etc. Going rate for a Marina facing one bed looks around the 90k mark to me. (This with buyer paying the letting agents fees). 100k would be about right if landlord pays the fees. Problem is if we get keys in two year time where the rental market be then, with many towers in the area in the supply chain, just look at the amount of developments, Park Island, Silverene, Torch, Pinnacle, Mag 218, Ocean Heights, etc, etc, etc, Only hope is that there are still plents of people in Sharjah, Aman and Abu Dhabbi to take up the slack. Same goes for sale prices. Only good news is that my BC unit is direct Marina facing and therefore a few metres from the water - although others with rear facing sea views and Marina side views should be OK. Also side Marina views in Central Tower should be great as the tower juts out so much into the Marina. Remember we have the hotel to come shortly afterwards and this will be a boost for those going for the holiday let market. A hotel on site is better than a site without one. And remember the beach is only two minutes walk away.

We're on our way. :banana:

P.S. I have met Slowhand in person back in Jauary and know he certainly has vast experience of the Dubai market so be careful knocking what he says, he does know what he is talking about here.

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 01:43 PM

One floor per tower per week and hotel is seperate handover. So 26 weeks to top out. I think they have manipulated hotel tower for seperate handover so they don't incurr charges.
Regarding your statement "Slowhand - live with reality for once please - TB has more knowledge of Dubai and construction in his "thumbs" that you'l ever have in your head mate - he may knock SP but when you look at the facts he aint far wrong" i wouldn't judge people you don't know too well. SLOWHAND has vast expereience in Dubai property and Dubai and has more apartments in BC alone than TB has bought in total...While i have disagreed slightly recently with slowhand he does have first hand knowledge and likewise so do i. I have been going to Dubai for 27ish years and in the last 10 yrs about 5 to 8 times a year. I have done many property transactions in Dubai and have done many lease deals...but i don't preach or pretend to be an expert. I just tell the facts and offer an opinion based on experience.
This site is [imo] second to none and we will be very happy one day. Likewise property will start selling again and we will wonder what the fuss was all about. Try dealing with Diamond Investments of Marina Diamond fame if you think SG are bad. I could tell you a few stories...In fact i note TB is telling a story on another thread identical to something that happened to me regarding change of locks, police etc.
For once we should all stick together and move forward as a unit. All the speculation is just that...propoganda based on ignorance.
Cheers

Mark

I speak as I find -- (I,ve done a few with Diamond Investmnets and found them great actually ?)
I missed that they are handing over Hotel(East) tower separetely (can they REALLY do that legally ?)
Just for the record when do you expect handover of BC (assuming HOTEL tower is separate ?

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 01:50 PM

Look forward to a beer with you as well Slowhand. :cheers:

Progress is quite acceptable now. West Tower 35 floors 9 done so at a floor a week should top out in 26 weeks which is early January. Central Tower 45 floors 7 done so top out will be late March.

We should see some cladding going on these towers in about two month time.

Podium structure is vast and needs a lot of work but in 6-9 months time should be all done. So overall in 6 months time we will see a massive difference here.

I've been looking at rental rates by touring the various websites - Better Homes, Dubaidrizzle, Sherwoods etc. Going rate for a Marina facing one bed looks around the 90k mark to me. (This with buyer paying the letting agents fees). 100k would be about right if landlord pays the fees. Problem is if we get keys in two year time where the rental market be then, with many towers in the area in the supply chain, just look at the amount of developments, Park Island, Silverene, Torch, Pinnacle, Mag 218, Ocean Heights, etc, etc, etc, Only hope is that there are still plents of people in Sharjah, Aman and Abu Dhabbi to take up the slack. Same goes for sale prices. Only good news is that my BC unit is direct Marina facing and therefore a few metres from the water - although others with rear facing sea views and Marina side views should be OK. Also side Marina views in Central Tower should be great as the tower juts out so much into the Marina. Remember we have the hotel to come shortly afterwards and this will be a boost for those going for the holiday let market. A hotel on site is better than a site without one. And remember the beach is only two minutes walk away.

We're on our way. :banana:

P.S. I have met Slowhand in person back in Jauary and know he certainly has vast experience of the Dubai market so be careful knocking what he says, he does know what he is talking about here.

Its a free country I suppose we are all entitled to have different opinions

So , what's your opinion on handover Date Morris I couldn't quite make it out from your last post

BTW I want this finished as much as the next man what I don't like is the developer being unrealistic with completion dates

DxbPC

July 12th, 2009, 02:03 PM

I speak as I find -- (I,ve done a few with Diamond Investmnets and found them great actually ?)
I missed that they are handing over Hotel(East) tower separetely (can they REALLY do that legally ?)
Just for the record when do you expect handover of BC (assuming HOTEL tower is separate ?
Being realistic i would expect handover to be 6 to 12 months behind new scheduled date with the hotel 6 months behind that. That said i would expect SG to attempt some sort of handover prior to that to establish a date for late fees etc. In my experience developers can expect you to accept a unit while it is virtually a building site. Overall completion with deck chairs and gyms i would say 6 months after handover. So...see you in the hotel for a beer around Dec 2011 / March 2012.
I also managed to get my hands on the final floor plans, with sizes, for my apartments which have changed considerably from the SPA. As it works out [for me] i like them better...but they have changed quite a bit.
Anybody wants a copy PM me.
I have also had a reply to say that SG will negotiate with hotel group on our behalf for beach access etc.

Morrismarina

July 12th, 2009, 02:15 PM

Its a free country I suppose we are all entitled to have different opinions

So , what's your opinion on handover Date Morris I couldn't quite make it out from your last post

BTW I want this finished as much as the next man what I don't like is the developer being unrealistic with completion dates

I believe the handover of the residential towers can occur so long as the hotel tower structure is wind and watertight, ie. basically topped out with windows and external doors in. The interal fittings for the hotel can then continue without too much interruption to the residents in the other towers. So I would guess (and it is only a guess, I don't have a crystal ball) we should have the West and Central towers handed over around July 2011. :)

Anybody looking to sell may have a chance IMO around July next year. A development topped out with the majority of cladding done is attractive to a buyer. The project has much less chance of being cancelled and price is attractive with a discount built in so buyer gets a good return on their investment at hand-over. A good time to sell...... you're not competing with many other sellers who've hung on until they have their keys. This has happened with the sale of my unit at TT.

MANUTD

July 12th, 2009, 06:21 PM

I believe the handover of the residential towers can occur so long as the hotel tower structure is wind and watertight, ie. basically topped out with windows and external doors in. The interal fittings for the hotel can then continue without too much interruption to the residents in the other towers. So I would guess (and it is only a guess, I don't have a crystal ball) we should have the West and Central towers handed over around July 2011. :)

Anybody looking to sell may have a chance IMO around July next year. A development topped out with the majority of cladding done is attractive to a buyer. The project has much less chance of being cancelled and price is attractive with a discount built in so buyer gets a good return on their investment at hand-over. A good time to sell...... you're not competing with many other sellers who've hung on until they have their keys. This has happened with the sale of my unit at TT.
Morris/Dxb

I thought completion would be around Dec 2011 But only if they get moving with hotel tower - i was in for tne long run in Dubai but since seeing the crappy quality SG/SP have put in at my uinit at The POINT are reassessing things - I am really feeling let down by it all -- just hope SG deliver Better for us at BC ?

My opinion of them as developers has changed completely - the people that worK for them are OK but I have grave doubts about the integrity of the management if they can deliver the crap thay have at The Point and still think they have done a good job

Mistermark

July 12th, 2009, 06:55 PM

My opinion of them as developers has changed completely - the people that worK for them are OK but I have grave doubts about the integrity of the management if they can deliver the crap thay have at The Point and still think they have done a good job

That's not the half of it. I've received a letter in response to my termination of the SPAs on three Torch apartments that, if I posted it on this forum, would have even the worst, lame-brained apologists for SG (slowhand99 et al) frothing at the mouth with anger at the two-faced scum at the head of the Dubai business.

I've given them seven days to have a rethink, which I hope they will, after which it's all going into the public domain.

THFC

July 13th, 2009, 09:20 AM

don't be influenced that much by non-investors in BC. There is a lack of real facts being published on this forum. Those who are estate agents are reluctant to say anything and the rest just assume or guess.

nothing authoritative has been quoted on rent or prices that apartments sell for. I have first hand knowledge of recent actual rental deals yet other say rental are 20% below. Doesn't make sense to me.

likewise there is no expert opinion on construction issues or selling prices of apartments amongst BC investors which is a pity. Sensible non-investors don't seem to post on the BC forum. We only seem to attract depressives and people who are dissatisfied with other investments unrelated to BC.

some of them rattle on about poor finishing. BC investors can wait to see what happens at the Torch before they can consider whether they should be worried. I'm not at all concerned.

there are not many buyers around anywhere (in the World) because of lack of available finance. Clearly if a development is 1 to 2 years away from completion buyers will favour apartments that are available now and so it is not a great time to sell BC apartments.

however in 6 to 12 months progress will be well advanced as most of the residential towers will be clad, the economy will be in steady state and buyers will be more willing to buy in BC

BC is in a fabulous location that will attract buyers and renters more so than the Torch and other towers

I'd stick with it. I think it will turn out rather well for BC investors.

To be fair I tried! But I was mocked last time. I've looked at it as impartially as possible but I suppose I pissed the wrong people off last time I was overly objective (the ultimate sin)! Hence why I stopped bothering to post.

Completion date is never going to happen as stated but hey that does not detract from the fact that the project has been showing continual progress, 1 floor a week in summer is bloody good (arabtec aside) there are very very few other contractors/developers who will match this during the summer.

Unless there are considerable efforts made on the hotel tower 6 months is being a little on the generous side for hand over look at the progress of the other towers, Raft was poured around Dec/Jan if im not mistaken on the Central Tower and so is currently (at best) about 7-8 months behind as the pilling has not finished yet.

Again, if as thought, and as I understand it this will not effect hand over of the residential towers, yeah is isnt going to be as big a draw for tenants if you are on the east facing side for 6-12 months but hey Dubai is used to construction! Ive lived next to many a construction site. Ive also lived in JBR which still has no gym and had Oasis beach being demolished next to it. But nobody can tell me that anyone who is sensible about the rental demands struggles to rent in JBR

Are these developers going to win any awards for their customer care and humanitarian effort, from the sentiment out there (again cant comment personally) probably not. However at least they are building!

Anyways there is my 2 pennies worth for the next 6 months. Good luck all and maybe one day see you at the sports bar when the mighty THFC are premiership champions (ok maybe now I have slipped into the realms of impossibility)

MANUTD

July 13th, 2009, 10:39 AM

Anyways there is my 2 pennies worth for the next 6 months. Good luck all and maybe one day see you at the sports bar when the mighty THFC are premiership champions (ok maybe now I have slipped into the realms of impossibility)

Agree with that definitely although SPURS and CBP mighy not ?

What do you think about a handover date on BC - Dec 2011 JulY 2012 ?

DxbPC

July 13th, 2009, 01:21 PM

To everyone that PM'd me [and there were many...what a shock when i signed in didn't realize so many people read this forum. It was interesting to get so many PM's from people that don't post] i have replied and sent copies of the floor plans i have for my apartments. If you didn't include your email address i couldn't send so pm me with it.

Beppe786

July 13th, 2009, 06:54 PM

so have they only changed the west tower floor plan or central aswell?

DxbPC

July 13th, 2009, 09:01 PM

so have they only changed the west tower floor plan or central aswell?

i only have the plans to my apartment and both have changed as you will have seen. There are almost identical style apts in central so i assume they have changed too.
I am happy with the changes as i think it makes for a better layout however they are significantly different from SPA.

charlie big potatoes

July 13th, 2009, 10:39 PM

Morrismarina

July 14th, 2009, 03:46 PM

How long would it take to walk to the nearest Metro station from BC and also for comparison from TT ? Which is the nearest ?

DxbPC

July 14th, 2009, 05:03 PM

How long would it take to walk to the nearest Metro station from BC and also for comparison from TT ? Which is the nearest ?

BC closest as right across from it. Also in future connecting line is immediatley outside BC

Beppe786

July 14th, 2009, 05:17 PM

across the bridge behind the yatch club

http://i41.tinypic.com/2cnckck.jpg

High Times

July 14th, 2009, 05:19 PM

BC closest as right across from it. Also in future connecting line is immediatley outside BC

Bullshit.

The Torch is closer to the metro stop.

Morrismarina

July 14th, 2009, 05:31 PM

DxbPC

July 14th, 2009, 05:43 PM

Bullshit.

The Torch is closer to the metro stop.

Whats with the bullshit patter? What a plonker. We are not talking as the crow flies. We are talking about walking.
And as you can see clearly BC is closer to walk to Yacht Club and Metro stop.

http://i30.tinypic.com/2vnhnwz.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/289k32d.jpg

Beppe786

July 14th, 2009, 05:44 PM

other stop near tallest block

http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_country/marin_metro_03.jpg

DxbPC

July 14th, 2009, 05:47 PM

Thanks Beppe and HT..........The Yacht Club is one hell of a walk away from BC especially in the summer heat. What would we say 20 minutes then ??

And the Torch walk to the Metro stop further down would be less than that ?? What would you say timewise HT ??

Has anybody a really good aerial photo showing both stops ??

What are you thanking them for...wrong info or is that what you wanted to hear?
I will rise to the bait!!! BC Clearly closer...as is proven below

http://i30.tinypic.com/2vnhnwz.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/289k32d.jpg

Imre

July 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM

^^

This is The Point (RED) and the Bay Central (BLUE) , The Torch is something different location.

I think The Torch is closer than The Point or Bay Central

DxbPC

July 14th, 2009, 06:02 PM

^^

This is The Point and the Bay Central , The Torch is something different location.

I think The Torch is closer than The Point or Bay Central

Forgot to upload image showing BC closest out of all 3

Beppe786

July 14th, 2009, 06:05 PM

heres the stops.. i think BC is nearer or about the same.. to different stops

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qnpndk.jpg

Imre

July 14th, 2009, 06:07 PM

http://i25.tinypic.com/34t4zdu.jpg

you dont need to go to the main road better if you turn right after the Marina Heights and just go through the Marina Walk and before the Al Habtoor Tower just turn left and after the Ariyana Tower, station is there.

this route is closer:)

DxbPC

July 14th, 2009, 06:13 PM

you dont need to go to the main road better if you turn right after the Marina Heights and just go through the Marina Walk and before the Al Habtoor Tower just turn left and after the Ariyana Tower, station is there.

this route is closer:)

What ever way you go BC ia still closer unless you fly...

http://i28.tinypic.com/95o22x.jpg

Still not sure why the authorative HIGHTIMES came in with the bullshit line though...

Imre

July 14th, 2009, 06:27 PM

maybe you right but for me The Torch seems closer , because you can walk through the Phase 1 which is air conditioned and better experience than walking through the bridge:)

slowhand99

July 14th, 2009, 06:41 PM

won't this stop right outside BC and connect to the metro?

see post 3454 on this thread

for the lazy there will be a service where you can be carried from your apartment in BC to the tram stop in an air conditioned box

Morrismarina

July 14th, 2009, 06:56 PM

What are you thanking them for...wrong info or is that what you wanted to hear?

1. I was thanking them for replying to me, it's known as a bit of courtesy.

2. Wasn't really wanting to hear anything other than the facts. If I did have a preference for one to be closer it would BC as I've sold my TT unit.

3. High Times is not a "plonker"

Morrismarina

July 14th, 2009, 06:58 PM

for the lazy there will be a service where you can be carried from your apartment in BC to the tram stop in an air conditioned box

:lol:

I think there will be tram stop outside both BC and TT eventually. :banana:

True Blue

July 14th, 2009, 08:04 PM

maybe you right but for me The Torch seems closer , because you can walk through the Phase 1 which is air conditioned and better experience than walking through the bridge:)

Imre, you forgot to factor in the 20 minute lift journey at the Torch:lol:

High Times

July 14th, 2009, 08:42 PM

Whats with the bullshit patter? What a plonker. We are not talking as the crow flies. We are talking about walking.
And as you can see clearly BC is closer to walk to Yacht Club and Metro stop.

As I said, BULLSHIT. The question asked was which is closer to the metro stop BC or The Torch? Your answer was BC which is wrong.

You are talking BULLSHIT.

What ever way you go BC ia still closer unless you fly...

Still not sure why the authorative HIGHTIMES came in with the bullshit line though...

The authorative HIGHTIMES only comments on what he knows to be correct rather than talking BULLSHIT.

Here are the facts in terms of walking from BC & TT to the metro.

Bay Central is 978 meters from the Metro.
The Torch is 842 meters from the Metro.

http://i29.tinypic.com/14kw5r4.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2ym62gx.jpg

Maybe you forgot there was more than one metro stop that runs adjacent to the Marina. Whatever the reason for your error you are talking BULLSHIT.

And the Torch walk to the Metro stop further down would be less than that ?? What would you say timewise HT ??

I walked from the Torch front door to the bottom of the stairs of the Metro stop behined MD in 4 mins flat.

-------------------------------EDIT

The difference is actualy greater than the numbers i quoted as the actual steps to the BC metro stop are 50 meters further away from the bridge itself, and the Torch metro steps will be around 50 meters closer to the Torch making a combined difference of another 100 meters or so.

So in summary BC is around 20% further away from a metro stop than The Torch.