I like how from BC you measure the furthest point and from the torch you cut acorss a building site which is closed for public access. Good way to win your point


As I said, BULLSHIT. The question asked was which is closer to the metro stop BC or The Torch? Your answer was BC which is wrong.

You are talking BULLSHIT.



The authorative HIGHTIMES only comments on what he knows to be correct rather than talking BULLSHIT.

Here are the facts in terms of walking from BC & TT to the metro.

Bay Central is 978 meters from the Metro.
The Torch is 842 meters from the Metro.

http://i29.tinypic.com/14kw5r4.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2ym62gx.jpg

Maybe you forgot there was more than one metro stop that runs adjacent to the Marina. Whatever the reason for your error you are talking BULLSHIT.



I walked from the Torch front door to the bottom of the stairs of the Metro stop behined MD in 4 mins flat.

-------------------------------EDIT

The difference is actualy greater than the numbers i quoted as the actual steps to the BC metro stop are 50 meters further away from the bridge itself, and the Torch metro steps will be around 50 meters closer to the Torch making a combined difference of another 100 meters or so.

So in summary BC is around 20% further away from a metro stop than The Torch.

BC is on pleasure island, BC wins:laugh:

So basically there is nothing in it:okay:

Just to let you know i recieved emails from 39 people [so far] with a total of 97 apartments between them in response to the floor plans issue. Some are well known "forum posters" and others i have never seen a post from. A few of the old favourites didnt email me. The point is with this much interest and added apts of the people who do post but didn't contact we are well on our way to achieving some sort of unity to move forward together and address all our issues on quality and timescales, hotel and payments, etc, etc as one. Just a thought!
What does everyone else think?
Surely now is the time to address the issues of poor quality prior to any fit out starts!!!
Surely now is the time to address payments when everyone of us believes that the new schedule will not be achieved!!!

Just to let you know i recieved emails from 39 people Surely now is the time to address the issues of poor quality prior to any fit out starts!!!
Surely now is the time to address payments when everyone of us believes that the new schedule will not be achieved!!!

I like how from BC you measure the furthest point and from the torch you cut acorss a building site which is closed for public access. Good way to win your point

Pathetic :lol:

Is that the best you can do.

Well if thats how good your presentation and argument skills are, good luck to your band of 39 who you will be representing. I would get a bit more practice in using a tape measure before you go on a march about floorplan adjustments.

Rahail's boys will wipe the floor with you

Pathetic :lol:

Is that the best you can do.

Well if thats how good your presentation and argument skills are, good luck to your band of 39 who you will be representing. I would get a bit more practice in using a tape measure before you go on a march about floorplan adjustments.

Rahail's boys will wipe the floor with you

Very well thought out and intelligent answer.
Why would you post a comment like this? Is it a feeble attempt to stop this suggestion. Don't understand how you can make your mind up about me from a few guarded posts.
Are you an investor and if yes why would this not nterest you?
Look at the victory won by 70 invesstors fighting against acw holdings. That tells you what unity can do and it was backed by rera.
A group of investors locked in a dispute with developer ACW Holdings have urged its members to withhold further payments until installments are linked to construction.

Investors, many of whom have paid 80 percent of installments on properties, claim payment plans are still date-based. *

ACW's projects have not broken the ground and are experiencing severe delays.

Last month, Arabian Business reported that ACW investors had formed an action group, consisting of around 70 members.

Writing in the latest newsletter to ACW investors, Simon Brew, chairman of the group, said: 'We repeat our advice not to pay any more stage payments on any ACW developments until you receive a RERA-approved payment plan which refers to real building milestones and not just to calendar dates. We have not yet seen any ACW payment plan which meets this criterion.'

However, the developer said on Tuesday that Dubai property watchdog RERA (the Real Estate Regulatory Authority) last week approved its construction linked payment schedules. They will be released in September.

Scott Richards, director of client services at ACW told Arabian Business: 'A construction based payment schedule is what most investors want.'

'There is a lot of disaster in the market and that is something we pay attention to -you really do have to make an effort for investors,' he added. *

Investors also say they are unfairly being charged pre-registration fees and claim these are not due until completion and handover of the buildings. *

ACW strongly denied this and said it was entitled to charge the fee because it was a legal requirement- involving the registration of off plan property on behalf of investors with the Dubai Land Department (DLD).

Registration of both the property and the sale contract costs AED1960 and AED1000, ACW said.

Richards insisted the company was 'not making a profit' by charging investors the fees. *

Only excavation work and no actual construction has started on five of ACW's projects in the Arjan and Jumeirah Village districts in Dubai.

A sixth project called Platinum Two is severely delayed due to a proposed road through the site by the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA). *

ACW was established in 2004 and has two UK offices in London and Leeds as well as its Dubai operations in Emaar Business Park and Jebel Ali.

The company has launched seven freehold developments since 2006 with an asset value of AED5bn.

Pathetic :lol:

Is that the best you can do.

Well if thats how good your presentation and argument skills are, good luck to your band of 39 who you will be representing. I would get a bit more practice in using a tape measure before you go on a march about floorplan adjustments.

Rahail's boys will wipe the floor with you



Rahail has to see sense soon and talk sensibly regarding TP and BC

- confrontation shouldn't happen

- constructive dialogue ought to reap dividends

- happy investors = investors who will re-invest

- at this time in credit crunch many are in trouble
and need help this is the time for SG to move goal posts

- and I think they will if people can talk sensibly to each other

Just to let you know i recieved emails from 39 people [so far] with a total of 97 apartments between them in response to the floor plans issue. Some are well known "forum posters" and others i have never seen a post from. A few of the old favourites didnt email me. The point is with this much interest and added apts of the people who do post but didn't contact we are well on our way to achieving some sort of unity to move forward together and address all our issues on quality and timescales, hotel and payments, etc, etc as one. Just a thought!
What does everyone else think?
Surely now is the time to address the issues of poor quality prior to any fit out starts!!!
Surely now is the time to address payments when everyone of us believes that the new schedule will not be achieved!!!

I would like to thank you for sharing this information with me and taking the time to e-mail the floor plans which I was unaware had changed. Its true that this site is a brilliant way for us to communicate so thanks go to those that run it. You have noticed that many people read but dont write, myself being one of them and I'll tell you why, its because much of the board is taken up by childish comments that are derogative and unhelpful. There is an undertone of destuctive remarks that are often personal and offensive. When someone makes an intelligent comment that has taken some time to re-iterate and one that could benifit the group it is often undermined by an irrelivant catty remark.Some of you need to stop throwing your toys out of your prams and grow up.

So in summary it's roughly about 5 minutes walk to the Metro from both BC and TT. (Not bad IMO and should be managable even in the hot weather). I doubt the tram will be up and running for a fair few years after hand-over of either development, so this distance should still make rentals attractive. :banana:

Yes Morris, I agree.

From a commuter perspective both BC and TT are in great locations to take advantage of the metro link to all of SZR, DIFC, Mall of the Emirates, Burj Dubai and beyond. I genuinly think once the metro opens people in Dubai will re-evaluate where they want to live relative to where they work in terms of commutability utilising the metro, if the service works as planned.

In my view a high speed rail link from Dubai - Abu Dhabi would be the icing on the cake for both cities. This is the missing link in the UAE for me.

All that said the Torch is still closer to the metro than BC. na na, na na na..... :)

In my view a high speed rail link from Dubai - Abu Dhabi would be the icing on the cake for both cities. This is the missing link in the UAE for me.

^^
apparently others have the save view :lol:
http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/trafficwatch/public_transport/10153370.html


:banana:

So in summary it's roughly about 5 minutes walk to the Metro from both BC and TT. (Not bad IMO and should be managable even in the hot weather). I doubt the tram will be up and running for a fair few years after hand-over of either development, so this distance should still make rentals attractive. :banana:

I'm impressed Morris, 1Km in 5 mins must be super fit:okay:

I don't know why you guys constantly refer to rentals when the market has changed so much in six months and your apartments are YEARS away:nuts:

Hawki, I completely agree with your points and I am of the same notion.

I ve gotten tired of reading all the childish comments, which then has often lead to personal attacks when there has been absolute no need. We are all investors and all on the same side! I know its inevitable there will be a difference of opinion, however we are all adults and should remain to act like one. :ohno:

And it appears to me that this kind of split in camp has resulted into "cliques!" and often on this forum a wimbledon tennis match of attacking comments are served from whatever team is playing!

Most recent of examples is just simply looking at where the comments have lead when discussing the distance from the Metro stop to BC or Torch and whether Torch is nearer etc ... no need really at all.

HOWEVER saying all the above, I also cant thank enough ALL the users and readers who have supplied endless information, site updates, construction expertise and advice, photos etc For this Im grateful.

Unite dont divide.... we all know from history what happens when divisions occur!



I would like to thank you for sharing this information with me and taking the time to e-mail the floor plans which I was unaware had changed. Its true that this site is a brilliant way for us to communicate so thanks go to those that run it. You have noticed that many people read but dont write, myself being one of them and I'll tell you why, its because much of the board is taken up by childish comments that are derogative and unhelpful. There is an undertone of destuctive remarks that are often personal and offensive. When someone makes an intelligent comment that has taken some time to re-iterate and one that could benifit the group it is often undermined by an irrelivant catty remark.Some of you need to stop throwing your toys out of your prams and grow up.

I'm impressed Morris, 1Km in 5 mins must be super fit:okay:

Yes to cover this distance one would need to walk at 12 kmph (or 7.5mph). Easily achievable after a few beers in the Rennaisance Hotel bar. :lol:

So you don't pay for the beers! :laugh:

Rahail has to see sense soon and talk sensibly regarding TP and BC

- confrontation shouldn't happen

- constructive dialogue ought to reap dividends

- happy investors = investors who will re-invest

- at this time in credit crunch many are in trouble
and need help this is the time for SG to move goal posts

- and I think they will if people can talk sensibly to each other

I'd like this to be the case. However, last Sunday SG took a course of action with the purchasers of Torch apartments who'd exercised their right to terminate due to late delivery which would shock you to the core. They've been given seven days to have a rethink and I've asked others who've been affected not to post what SG has done for seven days to give them a chance to back down gracefully in private rather than get a kicking in public. Time will tell how they play it. If not, you will unfortunately see that talking sensibly does not work with Rahail and that carrying a big stick, and using it, is the only language he understands.

I'd like this to be the case. However, last Sunday SG took a course of action with the purchasers of Torch apartments who'd exercised their right to terminate due to late delivery which would shock you to the core. They've been given seven days to have a rethink and I've asked others who've been affected not to post what SG has done for seven days to give them a chance to back down gracefully in private rather than get a kicking in public. Time will tell how they play it. If not, you will unfortunately see that talking sensibly does not work with Rahail and that carrying a big stick, and using it, is the only language he understands.
Well , lets hope your wrong , and things are resolved amicably - and I hope for BC investors that lessons are learned by SG from TP whuch is a handover from hell at present
Looked at Yacht Bay thread today , another SG project , and finishes were great just cant get my head around what has gone wrong at SG since ?

I haven't seen The Torch finishes but I get the feeling that TT finishing quality is much better than TP. Could be that TP has had a very poor DCE project manager perhaps ?
Going forward with BC then the developer needs to take a more active role and monitor the quality of the workmanship themselves by regular visits to the site. For example Paul Brady at SG needs to personally check on the quality of the work and not leave it to DCE management. A "hands on" approach from SG is needed, constant monitoring to ensure work done is of an acceptable standard.

I don't know why you guys constantly refer to rentals when the market has changed so much in six months and your apartments are YEARS away:nuts:

Interestingly here's a couple of photos of The Point from 21st Jan 2008 (courtesy of Imre). This was 18 months go and it is now being handed over.

Even True Blue must admit that's not bad progress.

With a big effort from the developer and sufficient resources put into the project, it is possible that we could be getting our keys to BC in Dec 2010.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2760/imresolt037pr2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/265/imresolt040cd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)[/QUOTE]

..........................................................
With a big effort from the developer and sufficient resources put into the project, it is possible that we could be getting our keys to BC in Dec 2010.




^^If you are going to research, do it properly.

Number of apartments in The Point= 180 ish
Number of apartments in BC tower= 350 ish

Are we comparing apples with apples :ohno:

conclusion => BC will not be handed over in Dec 2010:okay:

you criticise the "optomists" then you show that you are one yourself with your quality and completion expectations.:nuts:

You actually did pay too much for your apartment, something I stated at launch. I even felt that Silverene was expensive although 20% cheaper than here and they will have higher spec appliances and marble floors etc.

Dubai Steve will back me up about my statement that anything over 1000AED/ft2 could be a risk as an investment. He reminded me of my foresight when average asking prices hit 2000AED/ft2. Market looks a lot different now!

Morris, rents are currently around 100AED/ft2 in the Marina so for your loss of income calc you should be around the 80,000AED mark.

Have a look at The Point thread, apartments are being rented at 70-80,000AED which is around 100AED/ft.

Surprise surprise!!

Well Morriss..I agree with you...
Thanks DXBPC for you effort...i received your email....All look Positive...Great Stuff

^^If you are going to research, do it properly.

Number of apartments in The Point= 180 ish
Number of apartments in BC tower= 350 ish

Are we comparing apples with apples :ohno:

conclusion => BC will not be handed over in Dec 2010:okay:

Hey..... Mr Doom & Gloom....... you didn't read my post properly...... I said "big effort from the developer and sufficient resources put into the project". :ohno:

Whilst you've brought up the subject rentals again (no idea why as I thought you didn't think it was worth discussing rents at the moment) what's a one bed like yours in The Jewels going for then, you know the one on the lowest floor (ie. ground) with no view of the Marina just a very restricted view of the swimming pool and nothing else? Oh sorry I forgot views don't matter do they ? :lol:

Hey..... Mr Doom & Gloom....... you didn't read my post properly...... I said "big effort from the developer and sufficient resources put into the project". :ohno:

Oh I forgot, everyone has to be positive and live in La La Land or the value of your apartments will be affected.

Doom and Gloom:ohno: Just a realist.

Whilst you've brought up the subject rentals again (no idea why as I thought you didn't think it was worth discussing rents at the moment) what's a one bed like yours in The Jewels going for then, you know the one on the lowest floor (ie. ground) with no view of the Marina just a very restricted view of the swimming pool and nothing else? Oh sorry I forgot views don't matter do they ? :lol:

Well well, very ticked off. Actually 145,000AED single cheque:D. With the exchange rate at the time of 5.15/£ I'll let you do the maths.

I brought up the subject to show you that the figure I quoted was realistic and the other figure of 100,000AED was not in the current market.

Well well, very ticked off. Actually 145,000AED single cheque:D.


That was before Christmas. You be extremely lucky to get even half that now. I suppose some guy with a white stick might take it for 50k. :lol:

(I guess that photo of TP progress over last 18 months upset you).

That was before Christmas. You be extremely lucky to get even half that now. I suppose some guy with a white stick might take it for 50k. :lol:

(I guess that photo of TP progress over last 18 months upset you).

Wrong again, January 2009. I'm not upset at all Morris:)

In todays market I would expect 100,000AED as it is bigger than 1000ft and to a very high spec. I had a list of offers for it at the end up. The client moved out of JBR as they did not like the height of their previous apartment and wanted a good gym on site.

Tenants are moving away from studios all together and small 1 beds will be next to fall off the radar.

^^If you are going to research, do it properly.

Number of apartments in The Point= 180 ish
Number of apartments in BC tower= 350 ish

Are we comparing apples with apples :ohno:

conclusion => BC will not be handed over in Dec 2010:okay:

If they double the workers it could be ?
but I doubt it myself JUNE 2011 more like
but no Hotel Tower by then IMHO

One thing, i hope to god they improve the
fitment and finish at BC -- TP is so disapointing

Wrong again, January 2009. I'm not upset at all Morris:)

In todays market I would expect 100,000AED as it is bigger than 1000ft and to a very high spec. I had a list of offers for it at the end up. The client moved out of JBR as they did not like the height of their previous apartment and wanted a good gym on site.

Tenants are moving away from studios all together and small 1 beds will be next to fall off the radar.

Come on TB, you are a clued up chap. I just got 170 aed sqft for my studio....they are and always will give the best return on your investment.....if prices keep going down then so what i get 6-8 % yeild instead od 10-15% yeild. My bank is giving me 1% interest so even thinking about another studio to krank up the old passive income......

^^If you are going to research, do it properly.

Number of apartments in The Point= 180 ish
Number of apartments in BC tower= 350 ish

Are we comparing apples with apples :ohno:

conclusion => BC will not be handed over in Dec 2010:okay:

TB, you should get over the fact that SG, the developer, wouldn't give you a job when you applied for it.

as Morris's photos shows great progress has happened at the Point in 18 months compared to previous progress. The footprint of the BC towers are not that large as many of the apartments are small. There are plenty of cranes and resources now at BC. We obviously could do with a construction expert to help us more closely evaluate progress against the latest plan but we haven't got one. To a lay person, based on current progress handover, Dec 2010 is possible. There are many factors now in play that mean it is in the developer's interest to complete ASAP whereas before it wasn't. That is why you are seeing good progress compared with before on all the sites. You make yourself out to be an expert but you can't or won't see the obvious.

the rental I quoted of 100,000 AED for a 700 sq ft 1 bed apartment white goods only ie no furniture was based on a deal done 1st May 2009. In other words, it's a fact not hearsay

you continue to be a miserable **** and now are also showing yourself to be a smart arse as well. Not a great combination. Your mate says you have no friends. We know why now.

^^"Your mate says you have no friends.":lol:

Look up the definition of oxymoron.....

17/Jul/2009

Bay Central

http://i31.tinypic.com/2ywackm.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/282kejd.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/oruljq.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2m34jee.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2dhz060.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2m34jee.jpg

looks like the side apartments 1 bed 700sq ft type C

maybe the show apartment?

17/Jul/2009

Bay Central

http://i31.tinypic.com/2ywackm.jpg

Great progress and thanks for the photos. Does anyone have a close up of podium or overhead shot as the progress looks good here too.
I agree with BEPPE...looks like the show apartment. Who ever has 309 or 310 in west tower is getting the show apartment.

Great progress and thanks for the photos. Does anyone have a close up of podium or overhead shot as the progress looks good here too.
I agree with BEPPE...looks like the show apartment. Who ever has 309 or 310 in west tower is getting the show apartment.

great photos Imre thanks

I believe the show apartment will be complete within 2 weeks and a video of the interior will be available for investors to see online shortly thereafter. The purpose of the exercise is to say to BC investors this is what each of you will get in terms of fittings and standard. I am hopeful that the standard will be higher than the Point and Torch. We'll see soon. :)

Some will have doubts about this and they will be largely those that haven't invested in BC and who enjoy taking the p*** except it will be them who again look stupid.

However I think it is a further positive step taken by the developer to reassure us that BC will be a great development and will be more impressive in all aspects than the Point and the Torch.

Here's a few more pics to get under True Blue's nose. :lol:

Again these show good progress over last 18 months:

18th January 2008
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9820/imresolt134au7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Today
http://i29.tinypic.com/2rg2umc.jpg

great photos Imre thanks

I believe the show apartment will be complete within 2 weeks and a video of the interior will be available for investors to see online shortly thereafter. The purpose of the exercise is to say to BC investors this is what each of you will get in terms of fittings and standard. I am hopeful that the standard will be higher than the Point and Torch. We'll see soon. :)

Some will have doubts about this and they will be largely those that haven't invested in BC and who enjoy taking the p*** except it will be them who again look stupid.

However I think it is a further positive step taken by the developer to reassure us that BC will be a great development and will be more impressive in all aspects than the Point and the Torch.

I have major doubts about this as so far as what i was sold in August 2007 seems to be just a pitch. You and many others have recieved my email on recent changes to the apartments and the developement. I think these are significant and we should not just spout positve stuff for the sake of it. Words are easy...just look at the sale literature for example.

Regarding the show apartment...from what i gather from speaking with Point and Torch owners these apts are ok but the end result bears no resemblence.

Regarding your "they who enjoy taking the p*** except it will be them who again look stupid" yes there are detractors but there are many focused investors. I would love to look stupid and love to be proved wrong. Like you i have frequent and open communications with Director of SG Paul Brady and director of SP Russell Hayes. I think these people are genuine and tell it like it is. I believe they are passionate about making a change for the better and "hoping" that BC will be better. But can they influence the outcome? I don't know.

I will travel to Dubai [and would be happy to meet with you] to see the show apart and make my mind up from there. I expect best fixtures and fittings and won't accept anything less. I will sort this now and not on completion...then its too late!

How can we have confidence when they have changed the apartment layouts, sizes and the hotel is now a stand alone at the side of BC with NO interconnection at all. The websites state that "The Rennaisance will be the hub and will have shared access and be connected to the two resedential towers. A class in its own. This is what makes it different to any other developement in the Marina." I have had it confirmed that there is no direct access to the hotel and you have to go outside walk along the street and then re-enter. So it is now the hotel next door. So is the Oasis next door! The renders on the website and "facilities" page lead you believe we walk through the fantastic lobby as the entrance to your apartment. Not the case. I suppose on a positve note at least it is still a hotel and this is confirmed...but its next door not connected!

So come on SLOWHAND...you have good contacts and if i can get this info [and much more] so can you. And is it the Rennaissance? According to my contacts, via written communication i have sent you and others the "branding will be decided with the operator in due course". What's that about? Have a look at the website and see if there is any mention of "branding to be confirmed"? I think the reason for these massive changes is to allow for seperate handover thus saving on late penalties on the handover as the hotel is clearly well behind. I would rather get what i was sold...a three tower connected developement with the Rennaissance as the connecting hub allowing shared access to 5 star ammenites and restaurants and bars. Its nonsense and mis selling.

I respect your points of view but if i sat back and and only listened to you i would be convinced i have nothing to worry about when this most definately is not the case.

Please tell me i am way off the mark and wrong...i would love to look stupid in this instance!

I have major doubts about this as so far as what i was sold in August 2007 seems to be just a pitch. You and many others have recieved my email on recent changes to the apartments and the developement. I think these are significant and we should not just spout positve stuff for the sake of it. Words are easy...just look at the sale literature for example.

Regarding the show apartment...from what i gather from speaking with Point and Torch owners these apts are ok but the end result bears no resemblence.

Regarding your "they who enjoy taking the p*** except it will be them who again look stupid" yes there are detractors but there are many focused investors. I would love to look stupid and love to be proved wrong. Like you i have frequent and open communications with Director of SG Paul Brady and director of SP Russell Hayes. I think these people are genuine and tell it like it is. I believe they are passionate about making a change for the better and "hoping" that BC will be better. But can they influence the outcome? I don't know.

I will travel to Dubai [and would be happy to meet with you] to see the show apart and make my mind up from there. I expect best fixtures and fittings and won't accept anything less. I will sort this now and not on completion...then its too late!

How can we have confidence when they have changed the apartment layouts, sizes and the hotel is now a stand alone at the side of BC with NO interconnection at all. The websites state that "The Rennaisance will be the hub and will have shared access and be connected to the two resedential towers. A class in its own. This is what makes it different to any other developement in the Marina." I have had it confirmed that there is no direct access to the hotel and you have to go outside walk along the street and then re-enter. So it is now the hotel next door. So is the Oasis next door! The renders on the website and "facilities" page lead you believe we walk through the fantastic lobby as the entrance to your apartment. Not the case. I suppose on a positve note at least it is still a hotel and this is confirmed...but its next door not connected!

So come on SLOWHAND...you have good contacts and if i can get this info [and much more] so can you. And is it the Rennaissance? According to my contacts, via written communication i have sent you and others the "branding will be decided with the operator in due course". What's that about? Have a look at the website and see if there is any mention of "branding to be confirmed"? I think the reason for these massive changes is to allow for seperate handover thus saving on late penalties on the handover as the hotel is clearly well behind. I would rather get what i was sold...a three tower connected developement with the Rennaissance as the connecting hub allowing shared access to 5 star ammenites and restaurants and bars. Its nonsense and mis selling.

I respect your points of view but if i sat back and and only listened to you i would be convinced i have nothing to worry about when this most definately is not the case.

Please tell me i am way off the mark and wrong...i would love to look stupid in this instance!

You're absolutey right DxbPC.

Fortunately the developer has confirmed to me that my apartment size and layout has not altered in any way. But clearly if your apartment has been redeuced in size that's not acceptable. Have SG confirmed this to you by confirming a figure for the net size ?? Or are you adding up all the measurements on the plan. I know if you add up the size of kitchen, lounge, bedroom etc, then these do not always add up to the overall apartment size (can't explain why though). The net unit size is stated on your contract so if I were you I'd ask SG to confirm whether this figure has changed. Clearly if it has you need an explanation as to why and what recompense you will be given.

Hotel re-branding is a weird. It was to be a Rennaisance brand with the operator being Marriott. Could be that it will simply be a Marriott Hotel now in which case I'm not that bothered, Marriott is probably better know to most people tas a hotel than their Rennaisance brand. However could be a change of hotel operator, which is a completely different thing all together and somewhat worrying if Marriott have pulled out. Marriott have always stated it was to be a Rennaisance. I don't have direct contact with SG like you do DxpBC perhaps you can ask SG to confirm that it is just a change of brand and that Marriott are still definitely still onboard.

Hopefully the developer will kit the units out with proper quality tiling and cooker/hood and a quality bath - however if they've bought a job lot of the stuff they've put into TT and TP then quality will of course be no better. Be interesting to see the show apartments a.s.a.p.

Sounds like all we've done then is buy an apartment next to a hotel. Will we still get the room service we were promised ?

You're absolutey right DxbPC.

Fortunately the developer has confirmed to me that my apartment size and layout has not altered in any way. But clearly if your apartment has been redeuced in size that's not acceptable. Have SG confirmed this to you by confirming a figure for the net size ?? Or are you adding up all the measurements on the plan. I know if you add up the size of kitchen, lounge, bedroom etc, then these do not always add up to the overall apartment size (can't explain why though). The net unit size is stated on your contract so if I were you I'd ask SG to confirm whether this figure has changed. Clearly if it has you need an explanation as to why and what recompense you will be given.

Hotel re-branding is a weird. It was to be a Rennaisance brand with the operator being Marriott. Could be that it will simply be a Marriott Hotel now in which case I'm not that bothered, Marriott is probably better know to most people tas a hotel than their Rennaisance brand. However could be a change of hotel operator, which is a completely different thing all together and somewhat worrying if Marriott have pulled out. Marriott have always stated it was to be a Rennaisance. I don't have direct contact with SG like you do DxpBC perhaps you can ask SG to confirm that it is just a change of brand and that Marriott are still definitely still onboard.

Hopefully the developer will kit the units out with proper quality tiling and cooker/hood and a quality bath - however if they've bought a job lot of the stuff they've put into TT and TP then quality will of course be no better. Be interesting to see the show apartments a.s.a.p.

Sounds like all we've done then is buy an apartment next to a hotel. Will we still get the room service we were promised ?

The plans state the sizes and my two bed is reduced by 6m/sq. May not sound a lot but works out about AED70,000 worth. I was told by SP and SG that my plans were as SPA. It was only when i recieved them that i seen they were not. My one bed is the same size. The layout of both have changed considerably however i like it better so no big drama.
Regarding hotel operator. You will have seen from my correspondence that this was not confirmed and i await news on this.

Regarding the kit out - this is my biggest concern - Don't hope...get together now and insist on the quality we paid for. I am not an extremist however i think we should make sure in advance that we get quality. Quality workmanship, quality materials, quality common areas, quality gym equipment, quality pool deck, quality pool furniture...you get my drift. Look at the amount of developements that have been handed over where all these areas fall down.
That said...SP/SG have both stated that hard lessons have been learned at The Point and they hope to rectify these moving forward. I don't mean to be disrespectful to point owners but i would be gutted if i had [do] receive the quailty they were given. I think it is shocking and daylight robbery by SG to hand over this totally inferior product. I wish i was as upbeat and hopeful as SLOWHAND...but i can't be for now.
If i see a show apartment that resembles these renders then we are back on track...

Quality tiles and lighting

http://i30.tinypic.com/118mv6q.jpg

mood lighting with state of the art kitchens with NO WHITE HOOD

http://i32.tinypic.com/2uz2c7k.jpg

Quality flooring and finishing.

http://i32.tinypic.com/szhbuh.jpg

If i get it confirmed that this lobby on Bay Central website is for apartment access...then i am happy...Or is for access to the seperate hotel next door to Bay Central where you walk outside along the path for 50 yrds in 50'c heat and then re-enter? In which case why was i sold it and what is doing on Bay Bentral website? It does say on bottom left hand corner Bay Central...

http://i27.tinypic.com/sou4ch.jpg

What do you think the chances of this realistically are given their results so far?

Sorry for the rant...but it felt good!

Here's a few more pics to get under True Blue's nose. :lol:

Again these show good progress over last 18 months:

18th January 2008
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9820/imresolt134au7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Today
http://i29.tinypic.com/2rg2umc.jpg

You're not making sense again Morris, unless you're planning another exit strategy:)

The Torch has taken 4 years to get where it is today so whats the point of an 18 month snapshot. What about an 18 month snapshot of the begining of the Torch project, or this one or Bottanica or may be West Avenue in another 6 months.

The initial thrust of my main criticism of SG has always been the payment structure for SPP victims.......I mean customers:D. The problem being the lack of progress when most people have commited 90% of their savings against 20% progress.

The new thrust of my criticism is the total lack of resemblence to the sales pictures and renders. The buildings that have, or are nearing handover clearly look nothing like the buildings that were sold. Do you honestly think BC will be any different. To protect yourself and other investors you need to lobby now before it's too late.

The only reason the Point was handed over before December 09 is because they ommited all the detailing and embelishments. Waken up and act now before BC ends up looking like a cheap imitator.

As you know I bought in Dorrabay, and am not that impressed with the quality of the cladding work on the building. However it does look like the render and the internals are pretty good quality with marble floors in the apartments and common areas. The main thing is that I paid less than 700AED/ft for my full marina view and sea view apartment so have to be realistic as to the level of finish that can be acheived on this budget.

You guys have paid more than 50% more but will not get marble floors or Bosch appliances. Are you prepared to sit back and let it happen to you or put up a fight now as DXBPC clearly intends to do.

Make things happen, don't let them happen.

You're not making sense again Morris, unless you're planning another exit strategy:)

The Torch has taken 4 years to get where it is today so whats the point of an 18 month snapshot. What about an 18 month snapshot of the begining of the Torch project, or this one or Bottanica or may be West Avenue in another 6 months.

The initial thrust of my main criticism of SG has always been the payment structure for SPP victims.......I mean customers:D. The problem being the lack of progress when most people have commited 90% of their savings against 20% progress.

The new thrust of my criticism is the total lack of resemblence to the sales pictures and renders. The buildings that have, or are nearing handover clearly look nothing like the buildings that were sold. Do you honestly think BC will be any different. To protect yourself and other investors you need to lobby now before it's too late.

The only reason the Point was handed over before December 09 is because they ommited all the detailing and embelishments. Waken up and act now before BC ends up looking like a cheap imitator.

As you know I bought in Dorrabay, and am not that impressed with the quality of the cladding work on the building. However it does look like the render and the internals are pretty good quality with marble floors in the apartments and common areas. The main thing is that I paid less than 700AED/ft for my full marina view and sea view apartment so have to be realistic as to the level of finish that can be acheived on this budget.

You guys have paid more than 50% more but will not get marble floors or Bosch appliances. Are you prepared to sit back and let it happen to you or put up a fight now as DXBPC clearly intends to do.

Make things happen, don't let them happen.


True. Have you actually been and inspected your Dorra Bay apartment. The finishing is very poor, almost all the residents are complaining.
A year after hand over many of snagging items have not beeen resolved. The black marble kitchen surfaces are awful. The joinery is a joke, with many of the doors pitted, scratched etc. I appreciate that this is not atypical in Dubai, and I have seen much, much worse, but realistically the kitchen and any bathrooms need replacing, as do most of the internal doors.
Cayan should be ashamed of themselves!
There is no denying that if you paid less than 700AED/ft then you have got value for money but many of the owners paid up to twice that!
BTW..............check your contract , you will note, sanitaryware 'Villeroy & Boch' or equal! Check out what you have got..................the bath is available in the market for AED 300!
Fortunately for Cayan less than 20% of the building is occupied so many of the owners are unaware of these issues!
It saddens me to see all of this since Dorra is in a great location ( well, the bridge aside) the views are spectacular and it had so much potential.

Maybe you are right..................what do you want for less than 700AED/ft!

I have major doubts about this as so far as what i was sold in August 2007 seems to be just a pitch. You and many others have recieved my email on recent changes to the apartments and the developement. I think these are significant and we should not just spout positve stuff for the sake of it. Words are easy...just look at the sale literature for example.

Regarding the show apartment...from what i gather from speaking with Point and Torch owners these apts are ok but the end result bears no resemblence.

Regarding your "they who enjoy taking the p*** except it will be them who again look stupid" yes there are detractors but there are many focused investors. I would love to look stupid and love to be proved wrong. Like you i have frequent and open communications with Director of SG Paul Brady and director of SP Russell Hayes. I think these people are genuine and tell it like it is. I believe they are passionate about making a change for the better and "hoping" that BC will be better. But can they influence the outcome? I don't know.

I will travel to Dubai [and would be happy to meet with you] to see the show apart and make my mind up from there. I expect best fixtures and fittings and won't accept anything less. I will sort this now and not on completion...then its too late!

How can we have confidence when they have changed the apartment layouts, sizes and the hotel is now a stand alone at the side of BC with NO interconnection at all. The websites state that "The Rennaisance will be the hub and will have shared access and be connected to the two resedential towers. A class in its own. This is what makes it different to any other developement in the Marina." I have had it confirmed that there is no direct access to the hotel and you have to go outside walk along the street and then re-enter. So it is now the hotel next door. So is the Oasis next door! The renders on the website and "facilities" page lead you believe we walk through the fantastic lobby as the entrance to your apartment. Not the case. I suppose on a positve note at least it is still a hotel and this is confirmed...but its next door not connected!

So come on SLOWHAND...you have good contacts and if i can get this info [and much more] so can you. And is it the Rennaissance? According to my contacts, via written communication i have sent you and others the "branding will be decided with the operator in due course". What's that about? Have a look at the website and see if there is any mention of "branding to be confirmed"? I think the reason for these massive changes is to allow for seperate handover thus saving on late penalties on the handover as the hotel is clearly well behind. I would rather get what i was sold...a three tower connected developement with the Rennaissance as the connecting hub allowing shared access to 5 star ammenites and restaurants and bars. Its nonsense and mis selling.

I respect your points of view but if i sat back and and only listened to you i would be convinced i have nothing to worry about when this most definately is not the case.

Please tell me i am way off the mark and wrong...i would love to look stupid in this instance!

sorry my comment wasn't aimed at you. Yours views differ from mine but you are a smart guy who makes balanced observations and judgements.

My expectations of BC are not as high as yours and possibly most others. Despite all the marketing blurb, when I bought I was expecting something slightly better than my apartment in JBR and my buying experience to be about the same. I thought the hotel was an interesting addition that should make BC a better investment than JBR.

My JBR apartment was 2 years late and the finishing was functional. Everything works, the building and environment is well looked after and JBR is a very popular location in Dubai. It has proved to be a very good financial investment.

I had serious concerns prior to this year about whether BC would complete. I decided to get to know the players behind BC much better. I realised because of the financial and legal due diligence that I did there was nothing that we as investors could easily do about the situation. This is an important point. (I could rant on about the numpties not understanding this but I won't ). I therefore decided to interact with them positively rather than try to beat them up. One of the points I made to them was about improving communication and I specified and drafted the first of the new style of updates including incorporating new timescales for instance.

We can all see progress is now much improved at BC. The developer is new to developing and is learning all the time. I am very confident they will deliver BC to my expectations. I think the finishings will be of a good standard and better than the Point and the Torch. We'll see shortly on this point. Handover Dec 2010 is possible but I am planning for June 2011. This is just my estimate I have no better info than you.

Please go ahead and press them further on finishings and whatever. I can see that further trust needs to be built up with most investors.

sorry my comment wasn't aimed at you. Yours views differ from mine but you are a smart guy who makes balanced observations and judgements.

My expectations of BC are not as high as yours and possibly most others. Despite all the marketing blurb, when I bought I was expecting something slightly better than my apartment in JBR and my buying experience to be about the same. I thought the hotel was an interesting addition that should make BC a better investment than JBR.

My JBR apartment was 2 years late and the finishing was functional. Everything works, the building and environment is well looked after and JBR is a very popular location in Dubai. It has proved to be a very good financial investment.

I had serious concerns prior to this year about whether BC would complete. I decided to get to know the players behind BC much better. I realised because of the financial and legal due diligence that I did there was nothing that we as investors could easily do about the situation. This is an important point. (I could rant on about the numpties not understanding this but I won't ). I therefore decided to interact with them positively rather than try to beat them up. One of the points I made to them was about improving communication and I specified and drafted the first of the new style of updates including incorporating new timescales for instance.

We can all see progress is now much improved at BC. The developer is new to developing and is learning all the time. I am very confident they will deliver BC to my expectations. I think the finishings will be of a good standard and better than the Point and the Torch. We'll see shortly on this point. Handover Dec 2010 is possible but I am planning for June 2011. This is just my estimate I have no better info than you.

Please go ahead and press them further on finishings and whatever. I can see that further trust needs to be built up with most investors.

Believe it or not i didn't think your comment was aimed at me. I just felt your opinion gave me an opening to expain my thoughts. Like you i have done this many times and also have done well over the years through Dubai investments, however that doesn't mean i will settle on this occasion for less than i was sold. Hopefully if the standard is [all round] good this will be my family holiday home in Dubai. So far i have just been an investor speculator. Now i am buying to live which is something completly different. If you are planning a "viewing" trip to Dubai to see the show apartment let me know and we can try and organize dates to meet up. I have been inveited to view and will take up the offer. I DO not expect to see tiles, appliances or anything used in the point in the show flat. As SP said to me yesterday...BC cost a lot more to buy than The Point so the quality should reflect that. We will see!

True. Have you actually been and inspected your Dorra Bay apartment. The finishing is very poor, almost all the residents are complaining.
A year after hand over many of snagging items have not beeen resolved. The black marble kitchen surfaces are awful. The joinery is a joke, with many of the doors pitted, scratched etc. I appreciate that this is not atypical in Dubai, and I have seen much, much worse, but realistically the kitchen and any bathrooms need replacing, as do most of the internal doors.
Cayan should be ashamed of themselves!
There is no denying that if you paid less than 700AED/ft then you have got value for money but many of the owners paid up to twice that!
BTW..............check your contract , you will note, sanitaryware 'Villeroy & Boch' or equal! Check out what you have got..................the bath is available in the market for AED 300!
Fortunately for Cayan less than 20% of the building is occupied so many of the owners are unaware of these issues!
It saddens me to see all of this since Dorra is in a great location ( well, the bridge aside) the views are spectacular and it had so much potential.

Maybe you are right..................what do you want for less than 700AED/ft!
Maybe not the place but an answer that may provide an insight for others.

Not a year since handover, I only got my keys in february. According to Cayans website the completion was Dec 08.

Yes I have inspected my apartment and have a different experience to you. All of my 3 bathrooms were perfect with the exception of a cracked marble top in one. Tiling was nicely done and inline with expectation. Not everyone likes large format tiles but I do. A bath is a bath, Villeroy and Boch cheapest range are not any better than the Vitra sanitary wares used. Jewels was Duravit which is another leading brand. The taps were Hans Grohe and not the cheap Chinese stuff normaly fitted in Dubai. The black granite worktops were the thicker version and I had to get them to redo the joints and repolish it(black dust everywhere after that exercise) Solid wood doors used in cabinets and cupboards, teak for a change. Lighting in bathrooms excellent but kitchens poor with loads of scope to upgrade to your own taste(2 circuits employed for 2 lamps making it very easy to add feature lighting) My kitchen massive with loads of scope to add drinks coolers, dishwashers etc. Seperate laundry/comms room great. Ironmongery spec'ed as powder coated but better brushed steel fitted which was protected with masking tape that later proved impossible to remove:) One of the best things about Dorrabay is the sky lounge, have you seen it? One of the best sea /palm/ Walk views in the region. The dual aspect views from the lift lobbies is also an immediate attention grabber.

If your apartment is linked to a materials hoist/lift then expect lots of damage in your apartment. Some will inevitably fare better than others just keep the pressure on the contractor to get it sorted. I personnaly stood over them this time as, as soon as you leave so do they.

I am going to Dubai soon to check on the snagging and deal with some other issues, pity I won't be able to stay at one of my own apts as they are all rented out propping up my lifestyle at the moment. I am one of the people badly affected by the current financial climate with my Civil Engineering business struggling to get paid. And they say Nakheel is bad to work for:)

My expectations for finish are high however i could live with a similar finish to marinascape shown in photos taken of show apart by Imre...

Bathrooms...

http://i27.tinypic.com/2ezoahv.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/jt8588.jpg

lobby

http://i25.tinypic.com/10clpxy.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/vse1ao.jpg

lounge

http://i26.tinypic.com/15de6u.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2n0k01w.jpg

TB... Cayan's website may have said completed Dec 2008 but am i right in thinking it was due for completion Sept 2007 and you got your Feb 2009 and your mate got his keys April 2009. Your wording implies it was 2 months late...

By the way...i would NOT be too dissapointed if BC was in line with Dorra or better as it is far superior to The Point...For once i agree with TB but he still likes the wind up!

Dorra Kitchen...Perfectly good quality and workmanship although it is well dated

http://i25.tinypic.com/2gt5115.jpg

The new thrust of my criticism is the total lack of resemblence to the sales pictures and renders. The buildings that have, or are nearing handover clearly look nothing like the buildings that were sold. Do you honestly think BC will be any different.

TB. You are so full of shit it's funny. :lol:

Have a look at this render Of your beloved Jewels development.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2gwx4qf.jpg

Now have a look at the finished product.

http://i31.tinypic.com/33adkzk.jpg


The only reason the Point was handed over before December 09 is because they ommited all the detailing and embelishments. Waken up and act now before BC ends up looking like a cheap imitator.

For anyone who would like a balanced view of how True Blue's beloved developer Cayan or as the Scotts say "our shit dont stink" treated investors on handover, then go and have a read of the last 5 pages of the Jewels thread and you will learn that they had exactly the same kind of issues there.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=183520&page=28

I am not defending SG. I am simply saying that the majority of developers in Dubai operate in the same way and are all guilty of selling the shiny brouchures, but delivering sub standard mediocre averageness.
Pretty much everything you slate SG for has been done by Cayan and other developers in Dubai. Nakheel, Emaar, Dubai Properties, Ceyan, Select Group. They are all the same.

True Blue you sound like a very bitter man.

I suppose buying an appartment next to a sewage plant, power plant etc must be something you regret painfully, and having what will one day be a busy bridge built outside your back door can't be much fun either.

Cayan, Union Properties – Good
Nakheel, Dubai Properties – Bad
Select & 1000 more – Ugly

Emaar were good but now I’m not sure where they fit in with my category listing.

TB. You are so full of shit it's funny. :lol:

Have a look at this render Of your beloved Jewels development.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2gwx4qf.jpg

Now have a look at the finished product.

http://i31.tinypic.com/33adkzk.jpg



For anyone who would like a balanced view of how True Blue's beloved developer Cayan or as the Scotts say "our shit dont stink" treated investors on handover, then go and have a read of the last 5 pages of the Jewels thread and you will learn that they had exactly the same kind of issues there.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=183520&page=28

I am not defending SG. I am simply saying that the majority of developers in Dubai operate in the same way and are all guilty of selling the shiny brouchures, but delivering sub standard mediocre averageness.
Pretty much everything you slate SG for has been done by Cayan and other developers in Dubai. Nakheel, Emaar, Dubai Properties, Ceyan, Select Group. They are all the same.

True Blue you sound like a very bitter man.

I suppose buying an appartment next to a sewage plant, power plant etc must be something you regret painfully, and having what will one day be a busy bridge built outside your back door can't be much fun either.

on top of this, SG rejected his job application. Now I understand why he is a miserable ****

HT says this "I am not defending SG. I am simply saying that the majority of developers in Dubai operate in the same way and are all guilty of selling the shiny brouchures, but delivering sub standard mediocre averageness.
Pretty much everything you slate SG for has been done by Cayan and other developers in Dubai. Nakheel, Emaar, Dubai Properties, Ceyan, Select Group. They are all the same." ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON BUT GOING FORWARD IE NEW SIGN UPS IT WON'T BE GOOD ENOUGH.

I dont even blame the Developers (totally). Property developers the world over are greedy businessmen just like bankers, car dealerships, fast food outlets, hedge fund managers:). They are in business to make money, that's it, bottom line. The more profit the better.

It's like the old addage of the phone call to a business -

Press 1 for sales and we will answer your call within seconds, kiss your arse and tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Press 2 for service and you can sit and wait on hold until we transfer you to a viocemail, or just hang up because weve got your money already.

It is the Government (RERA) who is allowing developers to treat investors/customers with such contempt.

There is no OFFICIAL quality control in place for the end product. Until last year there was no need as everyone was making easy money and it was all good in the hood. Things have changed now, and will NEVER be the same again. The legacy of such weak leadership and lack of regulation being displayed by the Dubai Government will prove to be a major problem when seeking further investment in the future.

----

Back to True Blue's "new thrust for criticism". Perhaps the worst miss-representation of all was Nakheels original presentation of Palm Jumeirah and how much land there was going to be between all the villas. Compare that to how it turned out and you will be truely shocked.

Still, I guess most Palm J Villa owners are still happy. :)

I dont even blame the Developers (totally). Property developers the world over are greedy businessmen just like bankers, car dealerships, fast food outlets, hedge fund managers:). They are in business to make money, that's it, bottom line. The more profit the better.

It's like the old addage of the phone call to a business -

Press 1 for sales and we will answer your call within seconds, kiss your arse and tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Press 2 for service and you can sit and wait on hold until we transfer you to a viocemail, or just hang up because weve got your money already.

It is the Government (RERA) who is allowing developers to treat investors/customers with such contempt.

There is no OFFICIAL quality control in place for the end product. Until last year there was no need as everyone was making easy money and it was all good in the hood. Things have changed now, and will NEVER be the same again. The legacy of such weak leadership and lack of regulation being displayed by the Dubai Government will prove to be a major problem when seeking further investment in the future.

----

Back to True Blue's "new thrust for criticism". Perhaps the worst miss-representation of all was Nakheels original presentation of Palm Jumeirah and how much land there was going to be between all the villas. Compare that to how it turned out and you will be truely shocked.

Still, I guess most Palm J Villa owners are still happy. :)

HT is absolutely right again. He sees the big picture clearly.

The good news is that the BC properties are relatively cheap considering the location. We should be pleased BC is making great progress now and will complete and all things considered will be, I think, a good investment.

I dont even blame the Developers (totally). Property developers the world over are greedy businessmen just like bankers, car dealerships, fast food outlets, hedge fund managers:). They are in business to make money, that's it, bottom line. The more profit the better.

It is the Government (RERA) who is allowing developers to treat investors/customers with such contempt.

There is no OFFICIAL quality control in place for the end product. Until last year there was no need as everyone was making easy money and it was all good in the hood. Things have changed now, and will NEVER be the same again. The legacy of such weak leadership and lack of regulation being displayed by the Dubai Government will prove to be a major problem when seeking further investment in the future.



^^ Agreed 100%. A property developer is homo economicus, no more, no less. As long as the regulatory regime and civil courts fail adequately to penalise systemic breaches of contract, buyers will be ripped off, unless they exert pressure of their own to penalise such conduct and/or reward honourable behaviour.

In the meantime, it's 'Dubai Inc.' that will pay the ultimate price. It's not just the state of the local or world economies, or the ratio of anticipated property supply to demand that makes it all but impossible to launch new off-plan projects in the Emirate: it's the fact that international investors recognise that the country's legal and regulatory regime hasn't yet proved that it can hold developers fully to account.

The only way I can see anyone launching new projects in Dubai is either to build the entire project first then sell completed units, or allow people to reserve on a minimal deposit and pay the rest only on completion. In either scenario, huge amounts of capital are required, because there's no way the investors will be providing it.

I dont even blame the Developers (totally). Property developers the world over are greedy businessmen just like bankers, car dealerships, fast food outlets, hedge fund managers:). They are in business to make money, that's it, bottom line. The more profit the better.

It's like the old addage of the phone call to a business -

Press 1 for sales and we will answer your call within seconds, kiss your arse and tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Press 2 for service and you can sit and wait on hold until we transfer you to a viocemail, or just hang up because weve got your money already.

It is the Government (RERA) who is allowing developers to treat investors/customers with such contempt.

There is no OFFICIAL quality control in place for the end product. Until last year there was no need as everyone was making easy money and it was all good in the hood. Things have changed now, and will NEVER be the same again. The legacy of such weak leadership and lack of regulation being displayed by the Dubai Government will prove to be a major problem when seeking further investment in the future.

----

Back to True Blue's "new thrust for criticism". Perhaps the worst miss-representation of all was Nakheels original presentation of Palm Jumeirah and how much land there was going to be between all the villas. Compare that to how it turned out and you will be truely shocked.

Still, I guess most Palm J Villa owners are still happy. :)

HT is absolutely right again. He sees the big picture clearly.

The good news is that the BC properties are in a great location and desirable. We should be pleased BC is making great progress now and will complete and all things considered will be, I think, a good investment.

The comments from TB are really not worth reading and you can see now how unbalanced his views are. He needs a reboot.

There will be 800 apartments in BC and the developer won't want aggro from this number so there is value in acting together as DXbgo is avocating. My personal view is that not a great amount will be acheived but it is probably worth trying.

Maybe not the place but an answer that may provide an insight for others.

Not a year since handover, I only got my keys in february. According to Cayans website the completion was Dec 08.

Yes I have inspected my apartment and have a different experience to you. All of my 3 bathrooms were perfect with the exception of a cracked marble top in one. Tiling was nicely done and inline with expectation. Not everyone likes large format tiles but I do. A bath is a bath, Villeroy and Boch cheapest range are not any better than the Vitra sanitary wares used. Jewels was Duravit which is another leading brand. The taps were Hans Grohe and not the cheap Chinese stuff normaly fitted in Dubai. The black granite worktops were the thicker version and I had to get them to redo the joints and repolish it(black dust everywhere after that exercise) Solid wood doors used in cabinets and cupboards, teak for a change. Lighting in bathrooms excellent but kitchens poor with loads of scope to upgrade to your own taste(2 circuits employed for 2 lamps making it very easy to add feature lighting) My kitchen massive with loads of scope to add drinks coolers, dishwashers etc. Seperate laundry/comms room great. Ironmongery spec'ed as powder coated but better brushed steel fitted which was protected with masking tape that later proved impossible to remove:) One of the best things about Dorrabay is the sky lounge, have you seen it? One of the best sea /palm/ Walk views in the region. The dual aspect views from the lift lobbies is also an immediate attention grabber.

If your apartment is linked to a materials hoist/lift then expect lots of damage in your apartment. Some will inevitably fare better than others just keep the pressure on the contractor to get it sorted. I personnaly stood over them this time as, as soon as you leave so do they.

I am going to Dubai soon to check on the snagging and deal with some other issues, pity I won't be able to stay at one of my own apts as they are all rented out propping up my lifestyle at the moment. I am one of the people badly affected by the current financial climate with my Civil Engineering business struggling to get paid. And they say Nakheel is bad to work for:)

True , you are correct, not the right place, maybe one of the moderators could move this to the completed buildings Dorra section, and we can continue the discussion. With all due resect your inspection sounds a little cursory, either that or you have been damn lucky!

^^
The only way I can see anyone launching new projects in Dubai is either to build the entire project first then sell completed units, or allow people to reserve on a minimal deposit and pay the rest only on completion. In either scenario, huge amounts of capital are required, because there's no way the investors will be providing it.

that's the way it is going to be

HT is absolutely right again. He sees the big picture clearly.

The good news is that the BC properties are in a great location and desirable. We should be pleased BC is making great progress now and will complete and all things considered will be, I think, a good investment.

The comments from TB are really not worth reading and you can see now how unbalanced his views are. He needs a reboot.

There will be 800 apartments in BC and the developer won't want aggro from this number so there is value in acting together as DXbgo is avocating. My personal view is that not a great amount will be acheived but it is probably worth trying.

Better to hit the canvas with a bloody nose than to turn and run away. At least you know you tried.

I am surprised with your laissez faire atitude towards SG. You are a paradox. Your main point if you read through all your posts seems to be don't worry be happy. Be greatfull that they are building, and hopeful that they finish and leave the rest alone. But at the same time you are posting on here continually reassuring us all its ok. If you were genuinely unconcerned why bother with this thread. I read it becasue i am concerned and this provides me with different opinions allowing me to make balanced judgements on where we are. I don't understand you? I am happy they are building, i do think its a great location, i do think they are desirable...but...i want what i was sold and don't think we should sit and wait because "There will be 800 apartments in BC and the developer won't want aggro from this number".

Unfortunately I now read your posts the in the exact same way as i read TB's. As sure as it rains in Scotland every summer...TB is always negative and you are always positive. You seem to be on the fence. I realise communication with SG is paramount and you may [think you] have a good line of comms [as i do] but at the end of the day you deserve what you paid for and should settle for no less. If "800 apartment" owners create a fuss now they will think twice about shafting us. We are only asking them to give us what we gave them our money to build for us. OUR MONEY to build...not theirs!!!
Sorry but it seems we are now miles apart and i feel you are trying to pacify people all the time for some reason. We get it...you are happy to sit and wait as you are delighted with location and desirablity factor. I am not and i am trying to reach out to any others that may feel the same so we can work together on this. I am not a mad extremist or into fundamentalism. I have changed my opinion because they have changed my apartment layout and size, they have changed the hub of the developement to a "hotel" next door with no connection and they now say that "the operator will decide the brand in the near future" C'mon big man open your eyes. Why is that NOT bothering you? Their answer to me was where in your SPA does it state that the hotel will be rennaiance and connected as a hub!!! It doesn't but all the sales stuff on all the wesites does. Thats mis-selling [and a con] in my opinion!

Believe me when i tell you...I DO see the big picture clearly like your friend High Times.

The only way I can see anyone launching new projects in Dubai is either to build the entire project first then sell completed units, or allow people to reserve on a minimal deposit and pay the rest only on completion. In either scenario, huge amounts of capital are required, because there's no way the investors will be providing it.

Totally agree. However would this mean many developers such as SG will stay away now it's not a risk free environment for them ?

Would the lack of future new development in Dubai actually work in our favour as the price of completed units increase due to the eventual return of a shortage of supply?

TB. You are so full of shit it's funny. :lol:

Have a look at this render Of your beloved Jewels development.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2gwx4qf.jpg

Now have a look at the finished product.

http://i31.tinypic.com/33adkzk.jpg



For anyone who would like a balanced view of how True Blue's beloved developer Cayan or as the Scotts say "our shit dont stink" treated investors on handover, then go and have a read of the last 5 pages of the Jewels thread and you will learn that they had exactly the same kind of issues there.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=183520&page=28

I am not defending SG. I am simply saying that the majority of developers in Dubai operate in the same way and are all guilty of selling the shiny brouchures, but delivering sub standard mediocre averageness.
Pretty much everything you slate SG for has been done by Cayan and other developers in Dubai. Nakheel, Emaar, Dubai Properties, Ceyan, Select Group. They are all the same.

True Blue you sound like a very bitter man.

I suppose buying an appartment next to a sewage plant, power plant etc must be something you regret painfully, and having what will one day be a busy bridge built outside your back door can't be much fun either.

Full of shit indeed!

The subject was the final appearance of buildings compared to the renders produced at sales stage. The best you can do is compare the picture of the Jewels swimming pool:ohno:. Get back to the subject matter.

If people don't like what I say they always go down the same road of, I'm a bitter rejected employee. Absolute shit!

Remove all my posts and these SG threads become a farce about projected rental returns/values and LIBOR crap, not to mention the totaly unrealistic completion dates. Think about it!

:blahblah: :blahblah:


BTW True Blue remember when the Cayan cheapskates dispensed with some of the cladding on The Jewels and simply painted the concrete white ? :lol:

Posted by DxbPC tp Slowhand

they have changed the hub of the developement to a "hotel" next door with no connection and they now say that "the operator will decide the brand in the near future" C'mon big man open your eyes. Why is that NOT bothering you? Their answer to me was where in your SPA does it state that the hotel will be rennaiance and connected as a hub!!! It doesn't but all the sales stuff on all the wesites does. Thats mis-selling [and a con] in my opinion!

My rsponse

Unfortunately there are so many in the "chain" of possible "mis-selling" it wil be imposssible to claim for the loss of the Hotel but it is bloody annoying and please Slowhand don't stick up for SG now !
-they are taking the p*ss abiout the hotel issue
Also DxbPC - just clock the fact that the sales pictures show wooden floors and see if it happens in BC ?? - we've been duped i feel unless something changes SG's current attitude

Totally agree. However would this mean many developers such as SG will stay away now it's not a risk free environment for them ?

Would the lack of future new development in Dubai actually work in our favour as the price of completed units increase due to the eventual return of a shortage of supply?

To a degree, yes. What I think will happen, in fact already is happening, is this:

Following the market collapse early this year, the release of new off-plan projects has pretty much dried up. I predict it will stay that way for a while, as there's plenty of supply coming on stream, no excess demand, and no investor appetite for off-plan in this poorly regulated environment.

After a time, when the local economy has improved and demand at least matches supply, some developers who have finished big projects and as a result made decent profits will buy land plots cheaply, build slightly smaller-scale projects on them using the cash they've made, then sell the completed units to a mix of investors and end users.

Eventually demand may (depending on how Dubai and UAE play things over the next year or two) improve to the point where these small-scale projects aren't sufficient to meet demand. At that point, I hope the Government will recognise that the solution to bring in the required capital and also rebuild confidence in off-plan is to reform the courts, laws and RERA so that investors feel confident enough to buy off-plan again.

So I agree with Morrismarina that over the next few years at least, the ineptitude of those in charge will protect owners of existing properties, because it will be some while before we see the return of large-scale off-plan projects.

Full of shit indeed!

The subject was the final appearance of buildings compared to the renders produced at sales stage. The best you can do is compare the picture of the Jewels swimming pool:ohno:. Get back to the subject matter.

If people don't like what I say they always go down the same road of, I'm a bitter rejected employee. Absolute shit!

Remove all my posts and these SG threads become a farce about projected rental returns/values and LIBOR crap, not to mention the totaly unrealistic completion dates. Think about it!

HT has neatly punctured your facade. Your views are completely unbalanced and unhelpful and unnerving to new and/or inexperienced investors. You are not a BC investor. You add no insight.

Remove all my posts and these SG threads become a farce about projected rental returns/values and LIBOR crap, not to mention the totaly unrealistic completion dates. Think about it!

Well you for one TB are more than happy to engage in talk about future rental returns. In fact you love it, if only to tell everybody what a clever dick you are !! It was yourself that brought up the last discusson about future rental returns a few days ago. :ohno:


..............now enter Mackie to defend his best mate. :lol:

Posted by DxbPC tp Slowhand

they have changed the hub of the developement to a "hotel" next door with no connection and they now say that "the operator will decide the brand in the near future" C'mon big man open your eyes. Why is that NOT bothering you? Their answer to me was where in your SPA does it state that the hotel will be rennaiance and connected as a hub!!! It doesn't but all the sales stuff on all the wesites does. Thats mis-selling [and a con] in my opinion!

My rsponse

Unfortunately there are so many in the "chain" of possible "mis-selling" it wil be imposssible to claim for the loss of the Hotel but it is bloody annoying and please Slowhand don't stick up for SG now !
-they are taking the p*ss abiout the hotel issue
Also DxbPC - just clock the fact that the sales pictures show wooden floors and see if it happens in BC ?? - we've been duped i feel unless something changes SG's current attitude

not sticking up for SG really just reflecting what I think will be possible acheive having had interaction with the key players. But please go ahead and press SG on these issues. I will support any move on that front.

I find it really hard to believe that the lack of access to the hotel is intentional just so hand-over of the residential towers can occur before the hotel is completed. This does not need to be permanent, surely all they have to do is temporarily block the access then re-open it at a later date. ie. brick the access up for now and then insert the doors later when they are able to do so. :weird:

Comparative Prices

I've been looking at the launch price differences between The Point and Bay Central. As an example I've taken a full marina facing one bed apartment on the 12th floor on each tower:

The Point
12 Floor - One bed - Type 1a - 788sqft - AED 958,450 - price sq ft 1,216

West Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type A1 - 771sqft - AED 1,005,471 - price sq ft 1,304

Central Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type 8a - 935sqft - AED 1,262,012 - price sq ft 1,349

Not a massive difference in prices considering The Point was launched April 2006, West Tower November 2006 & Central Tower March 2007.

Well you for one TB are more than happy to engage in talk about future rental returns. In fact you love it, if only to tell everybody what a clever dick you are !! It was yourself that brought up the last discusson about future rental returns a few days ago. :ohno:


..............now enter Mackie to defend his best mate. :lol:

My 16 year old son watching the open together, recons that being a clever dick is much better than just being a dick.:D

Comparative Prices

I've been looking at the launch price differences between The Point and Bay Central. As an example I've taken a full marina facing one bed apartment on the 12th floor on each tower:

The Point
12 Floor - One bed - Type 1a - 788sqft - AED 958,450 - price sq ft 1,216

West Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type A1 - 771sqft - AED 1,005,471 - price sq ft 1,304

Central Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type 8a - 935sqft - AED 1,262,012 - price sq ft 1,349

Not a massive difference in prices considering The Point was launched April 2006, West Tower November 2006 & Central Tower March 2007.

Compared to Dorrabay March 2006 public launch 800AED/ft or Silverene February 2007 1000AED/ft SG prices are upto 50% higher.

So will you be getting value for money, or what you think you paid for?

Full of shit indeed!

The subject was the final appearance of buildings compared to the renders produced at sales stage. The best you can do is compare the picture of the Jewels swimming pool:ohno:. Get back to the subject matter.

Ok then. From an SG point of view. The final appearance of the building is basicaly the same to a layperson or simple investor who is not a member of the civil engineering, or architectural profession. Yes there are some differences and yes the differences have probably been implamented to cut costs and facilitate construction speed.

Here is the original render and finished picture of the only development SG has delivered so far. As a comparison it is prety close. The main difference is the decorative splayed corners at the top and the rails of the point dont come down over the face of the building. Also the balconies are different too. Again, to a layperson, not in your field they are astheticaly pretty close.

http://i32.tinypic.com/b6ukax.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/6omxpu.jpg

I would add that most buildings in Dubai reduce their features when it comes to delivery. Timpeplace, Emirates Crown etc. As I keep saying, it's just the way it is in Dubai, not an excuse, just a simple fact of life.

Your other usual artillary is crap customer service, lying sales people, late deliveries,sub standard workmanship. I dont see you saying the same things on other threads like Damac, Tameer, Trident etc. they are all just as guilty in all respects (to different degrees).


If people don't like what I say they always go down the same road of, I'm a bitter rejected employee. Absolute shit!

I didn't say that at all, I said your talking shit because what you say about SG can be said of all developers in Dubai (Cayan included), but you choose not to, you just seem to continualy preech it about SG.
Only you know why you decide to limit your critisism mostly at just this developer? :)


Remove all my posts and these SG threads become a farce about projected rental returns/values and LIBOR crap, not to mention the totaly unrealistic completion dates. Think about it!

I agree, I think you are a realy important part of this forum and one of the few people that actualy know what they are talking about when it comes down to construction and related issues in Dubai. I personaly have learnt a lot from you,and continue to do so, which I am grateful for. Unfortunalety your knowledge gets lost in a mist of constant bitching at times and that is a real shame.

All the shit about the smelly end of the Marina where your appartment is, that's just a bit of a piss take, and banter (as you well know). I have no issues with you personaly, and hope one day to meet you and have a beer as a way of saying thanks for the info you have provided me with over the years.

I will however pull you up when I think you are putting forward unfair criticism and singleing out one developer, when they are all as bad as each other (which deep down you know to be TRUE). :)

Well you for one TB are more than happy to engage in talk about future rental returns. In fact you love it, if only to tell everybody what a clever dick you are !! It was yourself that brought up the last discusson about future rental returns a few days ago. :ohno:


..............now enter Mackie to defend his best mate. :lol:

Never met him but he is the one eyed king in this land of blinds, reading most of his posts :cheers:

Compared to Dorrabay March 2006 public launch 800AED/ft or Silverene February 2007 1000AED/ft SG prices are upto 50% higher.

So will you be getting value for money, or what you think you paid for?

A very good point TB. Shows that SG must deliver the top quality we paid for, anything less and we're being done over.

^^

SG would certainly not deliver anything close to luxury in BC or even of 3* standards.

It's all about making money, so fitting units cheaply or on a budget is the order here. They have to tighten their wallets thanks to ill-fated investments in land purchases for Aquitania, West Avenue and God knows where ever else in places like Turkey and beyond.

Good luck guys in demanding some quality but I doubt very much that you will succeed. But, worth a good go.

BTW, I'm with TB and his comments. I've always being of the opinion that SG are crap and a bunch of crooks .

Never met him but he is the one eyed king in this land of blinds, reading most of his posts :cheers:

I've met him. I am an aquaitance of his business partner. Been in his office.
I know he suffered the same as us with Dorra and Jewel.

More sound common sense from High Times above. Thanks for that! Can I just say that I agree with everything in your post except the bit about hoping to meet TB and have a beer with him one day! I have many hopes and aspirations for my future but I have to say that a beer with TB is not featuring in my wish list top ten right now! I suppose things could change though; - I mean they do don't they. Who knows - in 12 months time Obama could be on the piss with Ahmedinajad! No doubt one day I'll be in a bar somewhere and hear the ohh soooo knowledgeable Scottish tones that could only be TB opining to his loyal band of fans (mostly Cayan Project management team - and Ohh yes Mackie of course)!! Maybe I will buy him a beer - or maybe I'll just keep quiet; - you know, - listen and learn.

Posted by DxbPC tp Slowhand

they have changed the hub of the developement to a "hotel" next door with no connection and they now say that "the operator will decide the brand in the near future" C'mon big man open your eyes. Why is that NOT bothering you? Their answer to me was where in your SPA does it state that the hotel will be rennaiance and connected as a hub!!! It doesn't but all the sales stuff on all the wesites does. Thats mis-selling [and a con] in my opinion!

My rsponse

Unfortunately there are so many in the "chain" of possible "mis-selling" it wil be imposssible to claim for the loss of the Hotel but it is bloody annoying and please Slowhand don't stick up for SG now !
-they are taking the p*ss abiout the hotel issue
Also DxbPC - just clock the fact that the sales pictures show wooden floors and see if it happens in BC ?? - we've been duped i feel unless something changes SG's current attitude

I think Dxbgo has been misinformed by SG about the hotel and lack of connection etc. I think this will be corrected shortly. I have asked for an update of the hotel in the next monthly update. We'll see what it says.

I think Dxbgo has been misinformed by SG about the hotel and lack of connection etc. I think this will be corrected shortly. I have asked for an update of the hotel in the next monthly update. We'll see what it says.

I've been mis informed too then ! - the most annoying thing at present is that they could be building this hotel for two years after the other two towers are finished and we are helpless to complain ?

I think Dxbgo has been misinformed by SG about the hotel and lack of connection etc. I think this will be corrected shortly. I have asked for an update of the hotel in the next monthly update. We'll see what it says.

you mean dxbpc. dxbgo and dxbpc are 2 different people:bash:

I think Dxbgo has been misinformed by SG about the hotel and lack of connection etc. I think this will be corrected shortly. I have asked for an update of the hotel in the next monthly update. We'll see what it says.

The ONLY connection many SP/SG people have mentioned to me is a sevice corridor for staff. All of them have stated that their is no connection for residents to go through. i have asked for residents to have the facility to use this as that would be slightly better...At least it would be "connected" then! We'll see...fingers crossed!

Also i have had it confirmed that my previous correspondence to the Dubai office was answered wrong [misunderstnading] and it is still Marriott and Rennaisance. That is good news.

DxbPC

Comparative Prices

I've been looking at the launch price differences between The Point and Bay Central. As an example I've taken a full marina facing one bed apartment on the 12th floor on each tower:

The Point
12 Floor - One bed - Type 1a - 788sqft - AED 958,450 - price sq ft 1,216

West Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type A1 - 771sqft - AED 1,005,471 - price sq ft 1,304

Central Tower
12 Floor - One Bed - Type 8a - 935sqft - AED 1,262,012 - price sq ft 1,349

Not a massive difference in prices considering The Point was launched April 2006, West Tower November 2006 & Central Tower March 2007.

One beds full marina are 01 and 10 and are 758 sq ft. The Point was cheaper at launch than BC and only 7 months between launches, yet 3 years between handovers! Who got it right Morris? You mentioned the word dick a few posts ago........... There aint no hotel:lol:

The ONLY connection many SP/SG people have mentioned to me is a sevice corridor for staff. All of them have stated that their is no connection for residents to go through. i have asked for residents to have the facility to use this as that would be slightly better...At least it would be "connected" then! We'll see...fingers crossed!

Also i have had it confirmed that my previous correspondence to the Dubai office was answered wrong [misunderstnading] and it is still Marriott and Rennaisance. That is good news.

DxbPC

If select think they can attach the two towers to the hotel with a service tunnel and try to claim that this was always their intention they;d better think again--this lot seem to get worse and worse-how low can you go. As far as i am concerned the appartment had one reception area and it was as if you were staying in the hotel itself, there would be benifits of this to both parties and all apartment were to be fitted out to the same high spec!!! The hotel was the main reason I bought here after all the crap weve had with the torch. Looks like the con men are at it again
Please dont tell me that we are being shat on again from a great hight like they have done with all the other projects so far, dont think i can take anymore-anyone interested in my appartment in Central tower?

If select think they can attach the two towers to the hotel with a service tunnel and try to claim that this was always their intention they;d better think again--this lot seem to get worse and worse-how low can you go. As far as i am concerned the appartment had one reception area and it was as if you were staying in the hotel itself, there would be benifits of this to both parties and all apartment were to be fitted out to the same high spec!!! The hotel was the main reason I bought here after all the crap weve had with the torch. Looks like the con men are at it again
Please dont tell me that we are being shat on again from a great hight like they have done with all the other projects so far, dont think i can take anymore-anyone interested in my appartment in Central tower?

They do seem to be a gang of shysters and conmen.
I bought into Bay Central because (at the time) SP had a good reputation and was recomended by a couple of people I knew and whilst im not happy with the delays its the hotel issue and possible quality of finish of the apartments that will ensure if I ever did business with them again.
I only want what was promised when I bought the apartments, is that too much to ask?

They do seem to be a gang of shysters and conmen.
I bought into Bay Central because (at the time) SP had a good reputation and was recomended by a couple of people I knew and whilst im not happy with the delays its the hotel issue and possible quality of finish of the apartments that will ensure if I ever did business with them again.
I only want what was promised when I bought the apartments, is that too much to ask?
Welcome Tick Tock : you are not the only one who thinks that: I thought that these guys seemed fair and eager to serve their customers and have bought at the torch too. I also reccomended them to people who also purchased from them. They have misused my trust and I now feel that they treat their clients ie you and me with utter contempt and disrespect. I will not buy from them again and wish I had never reccomended them either.It all started for me when they claimed that the torch was delayed through no fault of their own and no compensation was payable. Now look at the shity kitchens and bathrooms they have served up, its an absolute disgrace. I feel sorry too for those who purchased at the point- a picture speaks a thousand words!!! If they had looked after many of the people on this website they would be repeat customers for a very long time. There are some big players here with plenty of cash behind them to be a customer for life, somehow they missed this very basic business princple. MORE CUSTOMERS spending MORE MONEY and MORE OFTEN I certainly intend to invest further money into Dubai but not with this lot.

think we should wait until SG/SP have clarified what is happening with the hotel re connections etc and also the quality of fittings as shown in show flat. We should be clear on both issues shortly ie within two weeks

Cheers Imre

http://i25.tinypic.com/28v5e2b.jpg

Courtesy of Bizzybonita

http://i26.tinypic.com/2n1evrc.jpg

and thanks to M2

http://i40.tinypic.com/makwhl.jpg

better than nothing...

Interesting post from the point thread and again a reminder why you must not sign an addendum at any cost if on the LPP with BC at handover.

To all SG LPP Victims

We’ve had a response from our lawyer regarding SG’s LPP Addendum. Bearing in mind the legal group have paid for the advice I will not publish the complete report as this would be unfair on those who have stumped up money. I have provided some key points which will hopefully give unsigned LPP owners some comfort and also points for further investigation.

These are the key observations the lawyer made:-

•5A.5 of the Addendum was described as ‘horribly onerous’ and not
consistent with the UAE Civil Code which does not allow developers to treat all monies paid as forfeit in the event of a failure to pay an installment.

•5A.7 Termination would result in a total loss of investment including any rental money received being passed back to SG.

•5.8A – Indemnity has serious implications for an owner in the event SG suffer loss through any action of the owner or owner’s tenants.

•10A.3 – SG retain right to charge ie mortgage the property and in the event that SG default on any loan secured against the property a bank could take possession or sell your unit.

•10A.4 Grants SG “irrevocable authority” to change the agreement for securitisation purposes. This was considered by the lawyer to be undesirable and outside the scope of what this agreement was trying to achieve.

•10.1 Prevents LPP owners from selling the property without SG’s permission. The lawyer could not understand the logic behind this.

•3.1 of the Tenancy agreement is ‘very messy and probably confusing’ as the tenant would be confused who the actual landlord was.

•8.7 Tenancy renewal after 12 months is at the discretion of the developer – This is not consistent with general law, which says that a tenant does have the right to renew except in certain circumstances. It also arguably denies a tenant the benefit of the rent-cap law

Summary

•SG cannot force LPP owners to sign the Addendum. Where they state “you are required to sign” they are being "completely dishonest" – we are not required to sign at all!

•The agreement was considered not fit for purpose, poorly written and full of contradictions. It was suggested a judge would probably give up trying to find any sense in the SPA and Addendum and look to enforce the spirit of the contract.

•We have a legally arguable case for possession if we are not inclined to sign the Addendum.

This has some relevance to BC owners and offers some rays of hope for you guys...............

I had a chat this morning with someone in the know at Select Property who was fully aware about what's been going on at the Point. I have to say I was really surprised as they were pretty much bang on our collective wavelength in terms of the finish.

As we all know there's been a disconnect between what was sold and what's being delivered at the Point in terms of finish. From what I gather the Torch and Bay Central will hopefully not suffer the same problems as SG have recently taken on some heavyweight ex Emaar project manager types.

We discussed the client liaison function which was passed across to SG fairly recently. Select Property told SG they would need to resource this function properly but SG didn't put enough resource behind this initially and client liaison suffered badly as a result.

I was invited to go to Select Properties' offices in the UK where they would be happy to talk through their corporate structure and financial interests in their various developments. I think this offer extends to all their clients. It would appear at a corporate and board level they do not have any financial stake in Select Group or the Point development so rumors to the contrary are effectively baseless.

I got the general feeling that Select Property are genuinely concerned about what's happening at the Point and they are doing the best they can to get things on track and use their influence accordingly.

They agreed that the building was probably handed over prematurely in light of where it is at present but this decision was outside their sphere of influence.

The Addendum has nothing to do with Select Property - It's an SG creation in an attempt to protect SG's exposure to bad LPP debt.

So in summary the burden of responsibility for a quality product lies squarely with Select Group.

This appears to be a classic example of a solid sales organisation being tarnished by a poor delivery partner. As an ex-sales guy this is sales 101 - once someone's gone to all the hard work of getting a customer for you - it's in your best interests to keep them happy.

Happy customers mean more business through referral and up-selling. Look at how many Select clients bought multiple units in various developments. Select Property were obviously doing the right things. Let's see if SG can keep their side of the bargain and rise to the challenge.

The Addendum has nothing to do with Select Property - It's an SG creation in an attempt to protect SG's exposure to bad LPP debt.


That does not make any sense at all. LPP buyers already signed a separate contract at point of sale that states if a LPP payment is missed that the property will be taken back. Why is there a need for anything else? If they take back the property they will have to deal with any existing tennant themselves. They are not allowed to make a completely new contract under threat or blackmail. Call the police, take possession and tear up the addendum.

This is an eye opening fact which we can not ignor at any cost...

i am on LPP @BC..and do support collective effort...

in anycase BC oweners need to go for legal proccess...i m in..count me any time..

i am 100% sure, the court decison will be in our favour and the money we are going to spend will eventully recover from SG

This has some relevance to BC owners and offers some rays of hope for you guys...............

I had a chat this morning with someone in the know at Select Property who was fully aware about what's been going on at the Point. I have to say I was really surprised as they were pretty much bang on our collective wavelength in terms of the finish.

As we all know there's been a disconnect between what was sold and what's being delivered at the Point in terms of finish. From what I gather the Torch and Bay Central will hopefully not suffer the same problems as SG have recently taken on some heavyweight ex Emaar project manager types.

We discussed the client liaison function which was passed across to SG fairly recently. Select Property told SG they would need to resource this function properly but SG didn't put enough resource behind this initially and client liaison suffered badly as a result.

I was invited to go to Select Properties' offices in the UK where they would be happy to talk through their corporate structure and financial interests in their various developments. I think this offer extends to all their clients. It would appear at a corporate and board level they do not have any financial stake in Select Group or the Point development so rumors to the contrary are effectively baseless.
I got the general feeling that Select Property are genuinely concerned about what's happening at the Point and they are doing the best they can to get things on track and use their influence accordingly.

They agreed that the building was probably handed over prematurely in light of where it is at present but this decision was outside their sphere of influence.

The Addendum has nothing to do with Select Property - It's an SG creation in an attempt to protect SG's exposure to bad LPP debt.

So in summary the burden of responsibility for a quality product lies squarely with Select Group.

This appears to be a classic example of a solid sales organisation being tarnished by a poor delivery partner. As an ex-sales guy this is sales 101 - once someone's gone to all the hard work of getting a customer for you - it's in your best interests to keep them happy.

Happy customers mean more business through referral and up-selling. Look at how many Select clients bought multiple units in various developments. Select Property were obviously doing the right things. Let's see if SG can keep their side of the bargain and rise to the challenge.

Wow, some phone conversation. :cheers:

I was invited to go to Select Properties' offices in the UK where they would be happy to talk through their corporate structure and financial interests in their various developments. I think this offer extends to all their clients. It would appear at a corporate and board level they do not have any financial stake in Select Group or the Point development so rumors to the contrary are effectively baseless.

I fail to understand the rational behind explaining to investors the so-called cooperate structure and financial interests etc. SG/SP have being juggling their trade names from day one and that also extends to names like Dubai Select. For me, it's another deceptive plot to blame other so-called entities when they should be looking within. Proof: Someone mentioned earlier that SG/SP are both registered with companyhouse under the same office address.

I fail to understand the rational behind explaining to investors the so-called cooperate structure and financial interests etc. SG/SP have being juggling their trade names from day one and that also extends to names like Dubai Select. For me, it's another deceptive plot to blame other so-called entities when they should be looking within. Proof: Someone mentioned earlier that SG/SP are both registered with companyhouse under the same office address.

Indeed, and what can be read from this on SG website,
http://www.select-group.ae/sales.html different companies, my arse !!

Are you sure that in the case of one missed payment you lose all what you paid to date?
Do you have more details about this?Not that I am planning to miss any payment. Thanks.
P.S: I have 2 apt in W-BC on LPP

^^ yes you will loose it all if you don't pay it after being reminded after missing one or maybe 2 payments, even if you don't sign the addendum. The LPP scheme is similar to a mortgage, unable to make the payments and you lose your home.

:runaway:I think it will be timeshare in the end.:runaway::runaway:

22/July/2009

Bay Central

http://i27.tinypic.com/s4o2ud.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/16m4ksk.jpg

:runaway:I think it will be timeshare in the end.:runaway::runaway:

another non-investor in BC with a wild guess

^^
Yes please keep your own stupid thoughts to yourselves. Thanks Imre for the pics and once again there is significant progress on the 2 towers, will be very happy to see the 3rd tower rising soon......:cheers:

need a picture shot from the top see how well the podium basement is going..

Does anyone know which floor the gym will be?? also the mechanical floors???

its good progress...

show apartment may be ready by mid august..looking forward

Indeed, and what can be read from this on SG website,
http://www.select-group.ae/sales.html different companies, my arse !!

The web site at www.select-group.ae/sales.html says there is a strategic alliance between the UK company and the Dubai company. For accuracy, it does not say they are one and the same company because they are not.

I agree this is confusing because the names are similar and misleading because it implies they are part of a common group or under common ownership.

It is straight forward to find out who owns the UK company, Select Property Group comp reg 5071388, from Companies House but not so about the Dubai based developer (we know them as Select Group) who operates through separate companies not incorporated in the UK. Our contracts are with a separate company called Bay Central Developments (this is not incorporated in the UK) not Select Property Group or Select Group.


I don't believe there are any cross holdings in Select Property Group and Select Group between Mark Stott & Co and Rahail apart from in a totally separate company where they are jointly developing a separate site in Dubai.

This is why the set up makes it difficult for us to tackle the issues we have via the courts.

On a positive note good progress at BC is being maintained, communication is better in that we are getting timescales and comments on the hotel and on finishings etc.

The next update will give us more details about the hotel and finishings and is due out in the early part of August. We or you can then collectively decide whether we or you are satisfied or not.

My expectations weren't that high when I bought. I didn't do any research or see any brochures. I didn't know much about the Dubai property scene and hadn't discovered SSC. BC was £5k more than JBR which had turned out OK so it looked a straight forward easy purchase to me. I am confident that BC will turn out to be a good investment.

My only concern has been to see that BC is built and in reasonable timescales (bearing mind JBR was 2 years late). I post so that less experienced investors get a balanced view and facts (not heresay or reckless comment) where ever possible and they are not panicked into actions they may regret. I also post because there are several numpties, some ill-informed incompetents, depressives, unemployed kerb layers, pond life, crap estate agents and the like who create a string of wonderful opportunities to be really rude. :)

However I now know many other investors in BC, who are not in this group, did their home work and have much higher expectations as a result. From my point of view, clearly I am happy to see the best finishings and connections with the hotel but want to see the apartments handed over ASAP as my first priority. That's where I stand.

^^ I wonder if BC will be as good as Bonnigton Tower at JLT :D

I moved in to Bonningtons 3 days ago
No snagging required, everything is of good quality and the hotel looks stunning


good news for the JLT :)

22/July/2009

The Bonnington Tower

This is the best finishing at the JLT what I have ever seen , interior like a 5 stars hotel.

First restaurant already open, hotel and bar opening soon and also they will have a pool bar soon:) (hotel open after the Ramadan)

more photos of the Bonnington soon here:

http://www.dubaiupdate.com (www.dubaiupdate.com)

^^ I wonder if BC will be as good as Bonnigton Tower at JLT :D

The finishes maybe not, my guess is that the location of BC will be better than anything in JLT.

The web site at www.select-group.ae/sales.html says there is a strategic alliance between the UK company and the Dubai company. For accuracy, it does not say they are one and the same company because they are not.

I agree this is confusing because the names are similar and misleading because it implies they are part of a common group or under common ownership.

It is straight forward to find out who owns the UK company, Select Property Group comp reg 5071388, from Companies House but not so about the Dubai based developer (we know them as Select Group) who operates through separate companies not incorporated in the UK. Our contracts are with a separate company called Bay Central Developments (this is not incorporated in the UK) not Select Property Group or Select Group.


I don't believe there are any cross holdings in Select Property Group and Select Group between Mark Stott & Co and Rahail apart from in a totally separate company where they are jointly developing a separate site in Dubai.

This is why the set up makes it difficult for us to tackle the issues we have via the courts.

On a positive note good progress at BC is being maintained, communication is better in that we are getting timescales and comments on the hotel and on finishings etc.

The next update will give us more details about the hotel and finishings and is due out in the early part of August. We or you can then collectively decide whether we or you are satisfied or not.

My expectations weren't that high when I bought. I didn't do any research or see any brochures. I didn't know much about the Dubai property scene and hadn't discovered SSC. BC was £5k more than JBR which had turned out OK so it looked a straight forward easy purchase to me. I am confident that BC will turn out to be a good investment.

My only concern has been to see that BC is built and in reasonable timescales (bearing mind JBR was 2 years late). I post so that less experienced investors get a balanced view and facts (not heresay or reckless comment) where ever possible and they are not panicked into actions they may regret. I also post because there are several numpties, some ill-informed incompetents, depressives, unemployed kerb layers, pond life, crap estate agents and the like who create a string of wonderful opportunities to be really rude. :)

However I now know many other investors in BC, who are not in this group, did their home work and have much higher expectations as a result. From my point of view, clearly I am happy to see the best finishings and connections with the hotel but want to see the apartments handed over ASAP as my first priority. That's where I stand.

It doesn't matter if and who these companies are or if they are or are not one. The fact is at point of sale they were at pains to let us believe they were the one group and partners. The "we" for SP when sales were successful are now "they" when referring to delays, hotels and finishes and when SP see the state of the finished product at the Point. It dosn't make it difficult to take them to court as you go straight for Rahil and work from there, although not sure why you are saying this as my goal at present is to persist and try and get what i was sold. No more No less.

Regarding your positve note...yes good progress on two apartment towers but there is one thing missing...a third tower! It is a three tower project and i for one expect compensation if the full complex is not complete at the one time. I don't want to live on a building site!

I don't understand your comment on communications as there has been no update this month or communication to inform of any delay with it. So where is the good comms. Other than people calling them and asking pertinant questions?

I am happy you have sources that allow you input to the update. However the update is every bit as valuable as the sales pitch on their websites. It states there exactly what i thought i was buying so why do YOU think you need to tell then to clarify it to me. It is clear to me...5* luxury apartment with state of the art finishes and contemporary kitchens and appliances coupleD with a 5* hotel that will act as a hub to the connected apartment towers offering shared ammenities. That is exactly what i expect to see in the update. Because thats what i was sold!

The latter part of your post while open and honest seems to me to contradict the point you are trying to make and in fact tells us all NOT to listen to your points...You never did any diligence prior to buying and had no idea what you were buying therefor you have no expectaions other than it is completed. How can this possibly enable you to offer a "balanced view" with "facts".

I understand you are worried about people panicking and not paying therfor jeopordizing the build. But they have 70/90% of most peoples money by now so don't worry. Everyone should pay on time unless they have negotiated a break with SG. If you havn't you will lose out.

The big picture big man is to get on board now and realize you are working against people that are trying to get you what you paid for. No more, No less!
Please stop saying good progress and the positive thing is...blah, blah. We all agree with you that there is good progress on two towers however we must strive to make sure everything else we paid for is delivered too and in a timely fashion.
This is more than an investment to me it is a future home in Dubai for me and my familiy so i need, no want what i bought. No more...No less! I will strive to make sure the completed product is exactly that - [B]working together with the 104 apartment owners whose names i have and with Select Group.
I would rather try and fail than not try at all.
That is where i stand!

It doesn't matter if and who these companies are or if they are or are not one. The fact is at point of sale they were at pains to let us believe they were the one group and partners. The "we" for SP when sales were successful are now "they" when referring to delays, hotels and finishes and when SP see the state of the finished product at the Point. It dosn't make it difficult to take them to court as you go straight for Rahil and work from there, although not sure why you are saying this as my goal at present is to persist and try and get what i was sold. No more No less.

Regarding your positve note...yes good progress on two apartment towers but there is one thing missing...a third tower! It is a three tower project and i for one expect compensation if the full complex is not complete at the one time. I don't want to live on a building site!

I don't understand your comment on communications as there has been no update this month or communication to inform of any delay with it. So where is the good comms. Other than people calling them and asking pertinant questions?

I am happy you have sources that allow you input to the update. However the update is every bit as valuable as the sales pitch on their websites. It states there exactly what i thought i was buying so why do YOU think you need to tell then to clarify it to me. It is clear to me...5* luxury apartment with state of the art finishes and contemporary kitchens and appliances coupleD with a 5* hotel that will act as a hub to the connected apartment towers offering shared ammenities. That is exactly what i expect to see in the update. Because thats what i was sold!

The latter part of your post while open and honest seems to me to contradict the point you are trying to make and in fact tells us all NOT to listen to your points...You never did any diligence prior to buying and had no idea what you were buying therefor you have no expectaions other than it is completed. How can this possibly enable you to offer a "balanced view" with "facts".

I understand you are worried about people panicking and not paying therfor jeopordizing the build. But they have 70/90% of most peoples money by now so don't worry. Everyone should pay on time unless they have negotiated a break with SG. If you havn't you will lose out.

The big picture big man is to get on board now and realize you are working against people that are trying to get you what you paid for. No more, No less!
Please stop saying good progress and the positive thing is...blah, blah. We all agree with you that there is good progress on two towers however we must strive to make sure everything else we paid for is delivered too and in a timely fashion.
This is more than an investment to me it is a future home in Dubai for me and my familiy so i need, no want what i bought. No more...No less! I will strive to make sure the completed product is exactly that - [B]working together with the 104 apartment owners whose names i have and with Select Group.
I would rather try and fail than not try at all.
That is where i stand!

DxbPC, good for you mate,and good luck, I agree with you 100% with what you have outlined above.

I understand you are worried about people panicking and not paying therfor jeopordizing the build. But they have 70/90% of most peoples money by now so don't worry. Everyone should pay on time unless they have negotiated a break with SG. If you havn't you will lose out.

The big picture big man is to get on board now and realize you are working against people that are trying to get you what you paid for. No more, No less!
Please stop saying good progress and the positive thing is...blah, blah. We all agree with you that there is good progress on two towers however we must strive to make sure everything else we paid for is delivered too and in a timely fashion.

This is more than an investment to me it is a future home in Dubai for me and my familiy so i need, no want what i bought. No more...No less! I will strive to make sure the completed product is exactly that - working together with the 104 apartment owners whose names i have and with Select Group.
I would rather try and fail than not try at all.
That is where i stand!

Great then, I won't worry. As if things are that simple.

I don't know what you 104 people are planning to do. I have read in other forums about negative campaigns, lawsuits, and the like.

Will you 104 people guarantee to the rest of us (who are more than 104, by the way) that your actions won't jeopardise our investment?

Not worrying is not a business strategy. I can also tell you SG will do better than in other projects and you shouldn't worry. I am worried (like you) about SG's ability and willingness to deliver. Now I am also worried about the actions of other investors acting in panic and reducing this willingness and ability - and any influence that SP in the UK may have in getting issues resolved going forward.

All I am saying is we all have common objectives here, but I truly believe that some issues are best dealt with by lawyers and RERA in Dubai, not public forums.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2nh42uw.jpg

A very good point TB. Shows that SG must deliver the top quality we paid for, anything less and we're being done over.

No , it just means you paid a bit too much at that time for what you will get. Not to mention Dorrabay owners are already enjoyng rents return or rents savings.

i think that only way for SP is to give other payments holiday for LPP (at least 6 month), and a compensation for the SPP.
and is true, everybody are losing 2 years of renting property (so about 20.000 £), i think SP should be something to resolve the trouble. :ohno:

Will you 104 people guarantee to the rest of us (who are more than 104, by the way) that your actions won't jeopardise our investment?



Is your strategy to do nothing and hope for the best?

Why pay for lawyers in the first instance. Money is power!

Great then, I won't worry. As if things are that simple.

I don't know what you 104 people are planning to do. I have read in other forums about negative campaigns, lawsuits, and the like.

Will you 104 people guarantee to the rest of us (who are more than 104, by the way) that your actions won't jeopardise our investment?

Not worrying is not a business strategy. I can also tell you SG will do better than in other projects and you shouldn't worry. I am worried (like you) about SG's ability and willingness to deliver. Now I am also worried about the actions of other investors acting in panic and reducing this willingness and ability - and any influence that SP in the UK may have in getting issues resolved going forward.

All I am saying is we all have common objectives here, but I truly believe that some issues are best dealt with by lawyers and RERA in Dubai, not public forums.

At no point did i mention negative action. In fact if you read my full point and don't cherry pick the bit that suits you...you will see that i urge people to continue top pay on time unless they have agreement with SG for a break.
I AM NOT acting in panic. I have bought many properties in Dubai and KNOW exactly how it works and what the standards are. I can tell you that i will do nothing to jeopordize my investment but i don't really undersatnd why you don't want to get it confirmed from SG that we are getting what we paid for.
Regarding the "rest of us who are more than 104 by the way" you will see that i said [in bold] working together with SG, not agianst, not threatening...together. I have a very good relationship with SP and SG and hope to communicate the concerns of 104 apartment owners [not people] prior to build to hopefully let them see our concerns. The Point is our only bench mark and as such it fails to meet the criteria. Surely you must be concerned about the things i have mentioned.
Working together we can hopefully get quality appliances, kitchens, tiles, finishing etc...and the "hub" of the developement...the connected hotel.
I keep saying it - I only want what i was sold...no more, no less! Surely you do too? And believe me i am not panicking...i absolutley have no reason to worry that his developement will not finish! Why are you concerned about this and why are you happy just to accept anything?
Regarding using forums...if i went to a lawyer or RERA i would be acting alone. Using this forum i have found other people who have the same investment as me and the same concerns. NONE of us/them want to jeopordize their investment. ALL of them want what they paid for and want SG to know this. SG are very approachable and i look forward to seeing the show apartments and also the latest update. Then we'll know exactly what we are getting.

At no point did i mention negative action. In fact if you read my full point and don't cherry pick the bit that suits you...you will see that i urge people to continue top pay on time unless they have agreement with SG for a break.
I AM NOT acting in panic. I have bought many properties in Dubai and KNOW exactly how it works and what the standards are. I can tell you that i will do nothing to jeopordize my investment but i don't really undersatnd why you don't want to get it confirmed from SG that we are getting what we paid for.
Regarding the "rest of us who are more than 104 by the way" you will see that i said [in bold] working together with SG, not agianst, not threatening...together. I have a very good relationship with SP and SG and hope to communicate the concerns of 104 apartment owners [not people] prior to build to hopefully let them see our concerns. The Point is our only bench mark and as such it fails to meet the criteria. Surely you must be concerned about the things i have mentioned.
Working together we can hopefully get quality appliances, kitchens, tiles, finishing etc...and the "hub" of the developement...the connected hotel.
I keep saying it - I only want what i was sold...no more, no less! Surely you do too? And believe me i am not panicking...i absolutley have no reason to worry that his developement will not finish! Why are you concerned about this and why are you happy just to accept anything?
Regarding using forums...if i went to a lawyer or RERA i would be acting alone. Using this forum i have found other people who have the same investment as me and the same concerns. NONE of us/them want to jeopordize their investment. ALL of them want what they paid for and want SG to know this. SG are very approachable and i look forward to seeing the show apartments and also the latest update. Then we'll know exactly what we are getting.

Well said DxbPC - both RERA and Lawyers are inapproriate at this time - sensible negotiation with SG is the only way to do it - having said that they --(now Mackie, let me finish editing !Talk about quick off the mark !)-- need to sort out TP which to be fair has been badly handed over and poorly fitted out - they have to get this right first to keep future investors from running a mile from now on !

SG should also be open to discussing giving sensible payment breaks to reflect actual delays in BC and be truthful about the hotel issue ??

In my business I take the view that 1 unhappy customer will tell 10 others of a bad experience and perhaps only 5 of a good one - whether SG realise this and sort out disgruntled customers remains to be seen

Confrontation to a point is fine but negotiation is better and generally reaps more dividends for all

BTW Mackie that was very witty you should be on the stage LOL

Well said - both RERA and Lawyers are inapproriate at this time - sensible negotiation with SG is the only way to do it - having said that they

a) are a punch of ***kers
b) are Incompetent ***ts
c) Lying Scumbags
d) something else

:dunno:

Which one did you mean? Make your mind up so it can go in the new Select song, coming soon. :cheers:

I saw a 1 bedroom in the Gulfnews today, 10 % less than the OP

How to upload the photo's, i do not see the button's as explained in the website faq ?

thanks
BayVee

upload here first

www.tinypic.com

or

www.imageshack.us

and after just copy the right line into the forum (IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards)

How to upload the photo's, i do not see the button's as explained in the website faq ?

thanks
BayVee

great, your photos there, just click on the photo and copy this into the forum:


Embed this image ---> Forum

like this:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7417/img09842.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/i/img09842.jpg/)

Visited Dubai mid July and did an early morning and evening tour. Temp 40 plus !

Please see the

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/bayvee/images

for 30 plus pictures of BC and environment, incl yatch club, mall, surrounding buildings, beach, hilton etc.

Please send me your comments if any further info required.

Bayvee

Thanks Imre - You are the Expert. i ll try one and then post rest later

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3055/img1026n.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/img1026n.jpg/)[left][left]

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6043/img1024x.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/img1024x.jpg/)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9595/img10212.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img10212.jpg/)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7820/img10152d.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img10152d.jpg/)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5084/img10142.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/i/img10142.jpg/)

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9724/img10112.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/img10112.jpg/)

I just checked imageshack - Great photos Bayvee!

29/July/2009

Bay Central

http://i27.tinypic.com/286toc2.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/2rxuo1v.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/mv59x2.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/1zb85md.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6628/img10102p.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img10102p.jpg/)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6628/img10102p.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img10102p.jpg/)

great photos bayvee and Imre. thanks

Wow...Show apartment look amazing...i like the balcony as there is a plenty of space...great stuff...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8642/img10062.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/img10062.jpg/)

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8020/img10082v.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/img10082v.jpg/)

[LEFT][URL=http://img146.imageshack.us/i/img10042.jpg/]http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2882/img10042.jpg[/URL

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2882/img10042.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/i/img10042.jpg/)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8664/img10022j.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/img10022j.jpg/)

Great photos thanks...keep them coming.
Nice interior light!!!

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3230/img09992.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/img09992.jpg/)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4189/img09952.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/img09952.jpg/)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4952/img09902.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/img09902.jpg/)

[URL=http://img520.imageshack.us/i/img09882.jpg/]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7029/img09882.jpg[/URL

[URL=http://img81.imageshack.us/i/img09852.jpg/]http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3070/img09852.jpg[/URL

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/952/img09772.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/i/img09772.jpg/)

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3329/img09782.jpg (http://img238.imageshack.us/i/img09782.jpg/)

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3636/img09792.jpg (http://img238.imageshack.us/i/img09792.jpg/)

* did not see any on going piling activity for hotel
* could there be 2 demo apartments (3rd floor) both sides of W TOWER ?
* botanica some crane activity spotted
* livelyhood in evening very quiet (mid July is off course hot)
* final touches on red metro line in full swing, opening 9th sept
* hotel rate for 2 bed 170 m marina hotel apartment 150 euro per night, as very fully booked (harbour = emirates hotel)
* very good view from the 51st floor bar & restaurant recommended
* both torch and bc sites indeed very messy as compared with eg infinity and silverene (eat from the floor !)

Best wishes
Bay Vee

* did not see any on going piling activity for hotel
* could there be 2 demo apartments (3rd floor) both sides of W TOWER ?
* botanica some crane activity spotted
* livelyhood in evening very quiet (mid July is off course hot)
* final touches on red metro line in full swing, opening 9th sept
* hotel rate for 2 bed 170 m marina hotel apartment 150 euro per night, as very fully booked (harbour = emirates hotel)
* very good view from the 51st floor bar & restaurant recommended
* both torch and bc sites indeed very messy as compared with eg infinity and silverene (eat from the floor !)

Best wishes
Bay Vee

How old are your photos?

DxbPC - photo's taken on 12th july early morning and late evening

...

I hope the internal light fittings are not indicative of the "5* luxury finishes" we were sold by SP

They got a job lot when Woolworths went into administration ! :lol:

Great photos thanks...keep them coming.
Nice interior light!!!

The interior lights in BC

http://i31.tinypic.com/2rxuo1v.jpg

are the same ones used in the Torch.

http://i39.tinypic.com/9fux3r.jpg

Yes but .................. The Developer loves BC investors much more than the Point or the Torch investors :runaway:

And the workers on BC have mobile phones as standard :)

Looks like you guys and girls can move in shortly ?
sequentially of course !:nuts:

They got a job lot when Woolworths went into administration ! :lol:
My Blood is starting to boil again!! My granny wouldnt have that shit up -this is so wrong do we know if their is an interior designer for this show house because so far there is one item installed i.e the light and hes got one item wrong!! This lot are a joke, i just hope its a mistake until the correct one arrives. The Tiles are cheap too the kind you find in new builds in spain

Yes but .................. The Developer loves BC investors much more than the Point or the Torch investors :runaway:

And the workers on BC have mobile phones as standard :)

And they wear 2 gold rings, they are PIMP at Bay Central !

Yes but .................. The Developer loves BC investors much more than the Point or the Torch investors :runaway:

And the workers on BC have mobile phones as standard :)

thats TB on the phone getting the knock back again from Rahail after asking "Give us a job, rahail please!" for second time :lol:

I like the lights :)

thats TB on the phone getting the knock back again from Rahail after asking "Give us a job, rahail please!" for second time :lol:

I like the lights :)

You're a joke mate
- We sell them those lights for 10 pounds in the shop
- tiles look the same as The TORCH
(No wooden floors like you thought DxbPC
- Wonder what the Kitchen and bathrooms are like
- really hope we haven't been stitched up here too
- Windows are an improvement on the cheap solution in ThE POINT though

- tiles look the same as The TORCH
(No wooden floors like you thought DxbPC

Where have you seen the floor tiles in BC ?

Where have you seen the floor tiles in BC ?
POST 4395

POST 4395

Thats a Torch living room.

Slowhand - You're a joke mate
- We sell them those lights for 10 pounds in the shop
- tiles look the same as The TORCH
(No wooden floors like you thought DxbPC
- Wonder what the Kitchen and bathrooms are like
- really hope we haven't been stitched up here too
- Windows are an improvement on the cheap solution in ThE POINT though
Unfortunately looking through the keyhole at the lights this is how it will be. They will try and fob of us off with the same naff gear as The Point, etc. I find this very dissapointing. My old mate SLOWHAND implies on another thread that some people on this site are trying to cut a deal for themselves by "shouting" on this thread...APPARENTLY MAKING SURE THEIR OWN APARTMENTS ARE OK!!! [see post below] I know he wouldn't be talking about me but just to point out to the un-informed...the least of our worries is how the apartments are finished and if we can cut a deal accordingly. A few grand fixes our aparments although that shouldn't need to be...The hotel, the communal finishes, the pool, the gym, the pool equipment, the entrance, the landscaping...these are things that cant be fixed after handover and if not delivered to the right spec devalue the developement. Ironically the person shouting the most about conatct with SG/SP [Mark Stott] is my old chum SLOWHAND...Surely he hasn't been duped [i know i was duped by people on this forum into keeping quiet fot a time] and surely he wouldn't cut a deal to try and keep us quiet.
I am genuinely interested and concerned about the developement...i can fix my apartment. Remind me and i'll post a before and after shot of another apartment i have in Dubai. Before you would cry...after - people were queing upto lease it...i'm afraid he has called it wrong again.

I would.

HT has again highlighted the rogues who post on SSC. I think there are several people who deliberately make a big noise on this forum and nuisance of themselves generally in the hope that they can negotiate a secret deal with the developer that benefits themselves but no one else. Mistermark is a good example maybe Mackie as well. It is also happening on BC.Pretty devious and selfish behaviour I'd say.

I think there are ill informed people on this forum listening to "promises" from SP/SG and are naive enough to believe it. The lights in the show apartment are enough for me to see "the luxury standard" SG expect me to accept...No Chance!
Sorry SLOWHAND...you are way off the mark and are listening to the wrong people. You WILL be delivered crap if you don't act now. Please believe me...

I agree with you, infact the lights are exactly the same as Marina Diamond apartments. Which I sold inorder to acquire a much more upmarket finished product .Not to mention the additional inviting hotel feature.... ALL of which is now becoming a distant mirage!

Its not a gripe regarding the lights, my fear is as most of you are fearing that we will find the entire overall interior of the finished apartments exactly that- an MFI apartment !

Not happy :ohno:

My Blood is starting to boil again!! My granny wouldnt have that shit up -this is so wrong do we know if their is an interior designer for this show house because so far there is one item installed i.e the light and hes got one item wrong!! This lot are a joke, i just hope its a mistake until the correct one arrives. The Tiles are cheap too the kind you find in new builds in spain

[QUOTE=DxbPC ]...The hotel, the communal finishes, the pool, the gym, the pool equipment, the entrance, the landscaping...these are things that cant be fixed after handover and if not delivered to the right spec devalue the developement. Remind me and i'll post a before and after shot of another apartment i have in Dubai.

I also agree with your point, thereafter finally coming to terms with the undeniable lengthy delay in construction, the next battle as such is as mentioned above : Hotel - access, communal finishes, the pool, gym etc as you re right these will not be able to be altered at a later stage.

We will however at the same time ALL United need to remain to be consistence with our disapproval ALL the way to the finished product. :grouphug:

Complete and Utter shambles... Thankyou BayVee for your photos, I cannot also fathom as to how clear the difference in the construction site is between Silverene and BayC! :nuts:

Thats a Torch living room.

quite right my mistake - perhaps we can still look forward to wood floors ?live in hope eh ?

The interior lights in BC

http://i31.tinypic.com/2rxuo1v.jpg

are the same ones used in the Torch.

http://i39.tinypic.com/9fux3r.jpg

Curtain walling/glazing looks good but more mirror reflectivity on glass would look better.

So we are all assuming the whole flat is going to be crap based on a lighting fixture spotted at 50 yards away? Think we should see the whole packet before writing 4 pages of grief regarding our finishes.....How about some positivity......One can change a lightshade or?....

So we are all assuming the whole flat is going to be crap based on a lighting fixture spotted at 50 yards away? Think we should see the whole packet before writing 4 pages of grief regarding our finishes.....How about some positivity......One can change a lightshade or?....

or? I suppose to be positive one could change the kitchen, or one could retile the apartment or one could change the sanitary ware.
As i stated in my original post "I hope the internal light fittings are not indicative of the "5* luxury finishes" we were sold by SP"...indicative...small things do matter and unfortunately SG/SP don't get it! Why didn't SG/sp change the light fitting to something in fitting with the renders they used to sell the apartments. All the photos i seen and all the pitches i heard and still read on their website claim unrivalled luxury and 5* finishes. I keep saying it...All i want is what i was sold...no more...no less.
Do you think these lights are luxury?
Do you think the materials and workmanship on the other projects , which is our only bench mark by the way, give us reason to be positive?
or? will we let the horse bolt and then close the stable door???

easy access now because the fence removed, thanks to the tram workers:)

31/July/2009

Bay Central

http://i28.tinypic.com/2ainfcg.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/2vtqnm1.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2cscos0.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/jja1ie.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/ht6xkz.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/doklf8.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/nf205d.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2rz2f4w.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/io18c0.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2lik9jd.jpg

like the external cladding.. we need to get someone in there to have a look at the finish inside

http://i32.tinypic.com/2rz2f4w.jpg


Damn ... Nothing new i guess. I certainly cant wait to see what luxury-ish development would surface from such a messy and disorganised site.

Damn ... Nothing new i guess. I certainly cant wait to see what luxury-ish development would surface from such a messy and disorganised site.

Has Bay Central been hit with a cyclone ??:nuts:

i think its actually been cleaned up somewhat since the last pics.......still no silverene

Yes but .................. The Developer loves BC investors much more than the Point or the Torch investors :runaway:

And the workers on BC have mobile phones as standard :)

The guy with the mobile is Ahkmed he runs a book, giving great odds on all kinds of stuff. Hurry, you can get 5/2 on it getting finished. I took evens on no hotel, monies safe there then.

Cmon Slowhand, blow a bit more smoke up there arses. Lets have your usual load of old bollocks about continued and steady progress. This site is a disgrace and they cant even cover the pile bores correctly, a nightmare waiting to happen............Love the lamps man.

Cmon Slowhand, blow a bit more smoke up there arses. Lets have your usual load of old bollocks about continued and steady progress. This site is a disgrace and they cant even cover the pile bores correctly, a nightmare waiting to happen............Love the lamps man.

LOL - You got outa No mans land in NICOSIA then ?

Sites are a mess aren't they Cayan's sites are immaculate

So we are all assuming the whole flat is going to be crap based on a lighting fixture spotted at 50 yards away? Think we should see the whole packet before writing 4 pages of grief regarding our finishes.....How about some positivity......One can change a lightshade or?....

I am going on the assumption what I have recieved on previous occasions when I ve been handed keys to the apartment in the Marina area, where they too had a great glossy catalogue to sell the product to start with and then a different end product.

Not so much pouring grief over what you describe 4 pages, as much as being Miffed at the anticipation of deja vu or history repeating itself! ... no point burying heads in sand... or sitting on our hands in the hope of being positive!

or? I suppose to be positive one could change the kitchen, or one could retile the apartment or one could change the sanitary ware.
As i stated in my original post "I hope the internal light fittings are not indicative of the "5* luxury finishes" we were sold by SP"...indicative...small things do matter and unfortunately SG/SP don't get it! Why didn't SG/sp change the light fitting to something in fitting with the renders they used to sell the apartments. All the photos i seen and all the pitches i heard and still read on their website claim unrivalled luxury and 5* finishes. I keep saying it...All i want is what i was sold...no more...no less.
Do you think these lights are luxury?
Do you think the materials and workmanship on the other projects , which is our only bench mark by the way, give us reason to be positive?
or? will we let the horse bolt and then close the stable door???


Enough said... Im in total agreement... why settle for second best when we have paid to come first?! :bash: Appears to be rocket science for some!

all I am saying is whats the point getting an ulcer over something you wont see for another 2 years minimum? You dont know what the final finishing will be like, its just assumption going from what you have seen in other sp developements. It may be fabulous and you have worried for nothing, it may well be crap in 2 years then you have a case buts its a looong wait until then and in the end you will be so stressed it wont be a pleasant experience getting your keys and actually enjoying the investment you worked hard for.

all I am saying is whats the point getting an ulcer over something you wont see for another 2 years minimum? You dont know what the final finishing will be like, its just assumption going from what you have seen in other sp developements. It may be fabulous and you have worried for nothing, it may well be crap in 2 years then you have a case buts its a looong wait until then and in the end you will be so stressed it wont be a pleasant experience getting your keys and actually enjoying the investment you worked hard for.

Totally Disagree
- complaining now just might change SG's attitude
- sitting back for two years is futile
- those who have just had The POINT delivered will know what I mean

all I am saying is whats the point getting an ulcer over something you wont see for another 2 years minimum? You dont know what the final finishing will be like, its just assumption going from what you have seen in other sp developements. It may be fabulous and you have worried for nothing, it may well be crap in 2 years then you have a case buts its a looong wait until then and in the end you will be so stressed it wont be a pleasant experience getting your keys and actually enjoying the investment you worked hard for.

Unfortunately i disagree with you too. By acting now and communicating our many concerns to SG directly they will hopefully listen and sort things out. Our hard earned cash desrves to be turned into the unrivalled 5* luxury accomodation as sold by Selsect Property.
To me it is very simple to put our minds at rest.

Show us the materials that will be used to kit out our luxury apartments...tiles, kitches, appliances, lights, sanitary ware, etc


Tell us the "connected hotel hub" is still in place and you don't have to exit and re-enter the hotel.


Give us realistic dates for completion of the project...three towers. Not Two!


Show us plans for the common areas and show us the materials that will be used to furnish these areas. Gym, pool deck, pool landscaping and furniture, lobby tiles and finishes, etc, etc.

They WILL know the answer to all of these by now. We have all paid a substantial amount of money for expected luxury finishes so why don't they just tell us and then we can relax and put it to the back of our mind for a while?

I will travel to Dubai soon to view the show apartment and to be honest i would expect to be blown away with it and it bears resemblance to the many renders from the websites and marketing video. Anything less than this is simply mis-representaion by Select Property on Select Group's behalf.
The ball is in their court right now as its not too late for them to win the point.

will be very interesting to see the show apartment, agree but until then chill dude.....

Damn ... Nothing new i guess. I certainly cant wait to see what luxury-ish development would surface from such a messy and disorganised site.

DCE should visit Korea and learn about the construction site:)

this is my favorite ,The Zenith (Busan)

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2885/53004787.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6546/22402789.jpg

will be very interesting to see the show apartment, agree but until then chill dude.....

I agree with you. Showflat is not far from being completed so let see what their video shows

Cmon Slowhand, blow a bit more smoke up there arses. Lets have your usual load of old bollocks about continued and steady progress. This site is a disgrace and they cant even cover the pile bores correctly, a nightmare waiting to happen............Love the lamps man.

alls well that ends well and I am super confident. Delivery is to new timescales so why worry :cheers: Lights are great, view is great, marina is looking fantastic, outlook for the economy is better, everything is great!

CBP you do talk a load of tosh about the hotel. They are getting on with it

the moaners and depressives have clearly too much time on their hands and spend too much time not saying anything of any value.

thanks for the photos Imre - they are always impressive and I don't have to say that progress continues at BC because it is obvious

i don't know if this was posted before, but this is going to be really great for BC long term!

The new tram, which is being built now and scheduled to open in 2011, has 13 stations in phase I, 5 of them in the marina. Guess what, one of them is going to be right in front of BC!! only one other station will be on this side of the marina, in front of Emaar's promenade!

once al-fattan office building is done along with the 100-floor mixed-use project planned to replace the Oasis hotel, i bet you this area of the marina will be bustling and lively all-year-long like no other area there, thanks to the indoor shops (there is a mini mall in al-fattan already), the commercial offices, the bars, and the tram.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3732/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg/)

i don't know if this was posted before, but this is going to be really great for BC long term!

The new tram, which is being built now and scheduled to open in 2011, has 13 stations in phase I, 5 of them in the marina. Guess what, one of them is going to be right in front of BC!! only one other station will be on this side of the marina, in front of Emaar's promenade!

once al-fattan office building is done along with the 100-floor mixed-use project planned to replace the Oasis hotel, i bet you this area of the marina will be bustling and lively all-year-long like no other area there, thanks to the indoor shops (there is a mini mall in al-fattan already), the commercial offices, the bars, and the tram.

I agree 100%.

awesome awesome news, going to be fantastic even with a crappy lampshade......I will take that, thanks you guys for some positivity, you pessimistic @3£kers can chew on that....

^^^^^ i have to say, this is the best news i heard about BC since i bought my apartments there almost two years ago! this could be enough reason for me to keep two apartments until well after handover, instead of selling all the three i have now before completion, which i was planning to do up until this news.

however, there is no need to bash people who raise concerns about quality etc., and most importantly, about select's ethics!

for us on the LLP, we will have to deal with select for many years to come, so it is only common sense that we be very watchful and proactive when dealing with them!

^^^^^ i have to say, this is the best news i heard about BC since i bought my apartments there almost two years ago! this could be enough reason for me to keep two apartments until well after handover, instead of selling all the three i have now before completion, which i was planning to do up until this news.

however, there is no need to bash people who raise concerns about quality etc., and most importantly, about select's ethics!

for us on the LLP, we will have to deal with select for many years to come, so it is only common sense that we be very watchful and proactive when dealing with them!

thanks for your post Glover. When Imre posted his last pics he mentioned the tram workers had cleared part of the BC fencing so he got better views. Have they started work on the tram outside BC do you know?

i don't know if this was posted before, but this is going to be really great for BC long term!

Guess what, one of them is going to be right in front of BC!! only one other station will be on this side of the marina, in front of Emaar's promenade!

Glover, that map is so old.

Im surprised a clever guy like you didnt already know about this. It seems like it has changed your view of BC as an investment and yet you appear to have overlooked it for so long.

i don't know if this was posted before, but this is going to be really great for BC long term!

The new tram, which is being built now and scheduled to open in 2011, has 13 stations in phase I, 5 of them in the marina. Guess what, one of them is going to be right in front of BC!! only one other station will be on this side of the marina, in front of Emaar's promenade!

once al-fattan office building is done along with the 100-floor mixed-use project planned to replace the Oasis hotel, i bet you this area of the marina will be bustling and lively all-year-long like no other area there, thanks to the indoor shops (there is a mini mall in al-fattan already), the commercial offices, the bars, and the tram.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3732/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg/)

GLover, this has been discussed some time ago in lot of detail including trajectory of the tram. plesse refer to the past sites to get an update.

Did you kno about the marina boat service also stopping close by ? maybe time to buy some more apartments :)

as about the brimming place you are expecting to see, this time in july i visited the site and, let us say, the place as quite dead due to the heat. The tram may not chance this.

:dance:

Glover, that map is so old.

Im surprised a clever guy like you didnt already know about this. It seems like it has changed your view of BC as an investment and yet you appear to have overlooked it for so long.

Maybe he was on holiday and missed it...

I know that trying to catch up on the BC posts is a major task...and good posts usually get drowned out by Slowhand's constant reassurances that everything is aok!

BTW Slowhand you really showed yourself to be a complete amateur with that post of yours on how you decided to invest in Dubai...FFS! Are you sure you didn't cut yourself a deal with SP/SG?

:banana:

PS anyone seen the hotel tower?
PPS I agree with both DXBPC and ManU; we need to be proactive and not reactive

though i appreciate your input on SSC, it would be nice if you could be a little less patronizing at times HT.

i think i have seen the map before, but did not look at it in details since i really wasn't sure, like many others, that this will be ever built. what made me take a second look is imre's post about tram construction right next to BC. the fact that they have now started construction, leaving no doubt that phase I on the tram is indeed going to be built, justifies a closer look.

if you agree that a tram stop at BC should change anyone's mind when it comes to investment in this project, then we have some common grounds here. if not, then we will be wasting our time debating this.

a simple analysis will tell you that this map has not changed, at least when it comes to the marina, since the day it was released in march 2008 when RTA tendered the project. check this press release dated 27/1/2009 when RTA announced start of work. this clearly shows the stations in the marina are going to match the ones in the map!

"The tram track basically extends at the grade level along Al Sufouh Road but rises in an elevated section across certain areas of Dubai Marina, for reasons dictated by urban structures of the area. It passes in a path parallel to Dubai Metro Red Line and links up with the metro system in three stations along Sheikh Zayed Road where tram stations are linked via footbridges with metro stations to ease transit and exchange of passengers between the two modes. Safouh Tram also links up with the Monorail of the Palm Jumeirah at the entrance of the Palm from Safouh Road to facilitate passenger traffic between the areas served by both projects.

The Project serves a residential and commercial area along the track of the tram in Al Sufouh, Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence."

unless you can show another map with different stations, then this map, again, at least when it comes to the marina, has not changed.

http://www.rta.ae/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g3NncBSYGZJkb6kWhijggRX4_83FT9oNQ8fW_9AP2C3NCIckdHRQBF63kW/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvd0ZNQUFzQUMvNElVRS82XzBfMzdF?contenttype=archived&contname=Initial%20Works%20of%20Al%20Sufouh%20Tram%20Kick%20Off

Glover, that map is so old.

Im surprised a clever guy like you didnt already know about this. It seems like it has changed your view of BC as an investment and yet you appear to have overlooked it for so long.

Maybe he was on holiday and missed it...

I know that trying to catch up on the BC posts is a major task...and good posts usually get drowned out by Slowhand's constant reassurances that everything is aok!

BTW Slowhand you really showed yourself to be a complete amateur with that post of yours on how you decided to invest in Dubai...FFS! Are you sure you didn't cut yourself a deal with SP/SG?

:banana:

PS anyone seen the hotel tower?
PPS I agree with both DXBPC and ManU; we need to be proactive and not reactive

that's how I came to invest. I don't make claims to be a superstar unlike the wannabee bigshots and those with delusions. So far outcome is pleasing in the circumstances.

been offered a 3 month delay with no costs on my latest instalment due 1st Sept which will take total pyts to 90%. You know what, you won't beleive it I'm sure, but I won't bother to take up the offer but will pay on time as can't be bothered rescheduling the payment and will not financially benefit from doing so.

I am not financially stretched, my expectations are not set at a high level, my experience with BC is in line with JBR, progress is steady now, communication is better. Handover in first 6 months of 2011

Performance of SG and SP has not been great and they have stressed many investors. They have done untold damage to their reputation and "they will reap what they sow".

I'd keep your powder dry until you see the video of the finishing which is due shortly. I am also expecting an update on the hotel.

we seem to be averaging about 1 new floor a week at present so West Tower should be complete by Xmas 09

this is Imre's photo from 31/07/09 with BC on left and Al Fattan on right. You will see that they have ripped up the pavement and fencing at the BC boundary. Presumably this is where the tram track is going? The station could just be beyond west tower BC where the portacabins are now next to the road?

http://i30.tinypic.com/21e8cc3.jpg

^^ it would make more sense that this is where the station will be. if it was the tracks, you will see the same work all along the track route in the marina, which doesn't appear to be the case.

my guess is that they are starting with the stations first since they take longer to finish, and tracks will start later, in order to cause less disruption!

i am getting excited about this new development!

this is Imre's photo from 31/07/09 with BC on left and Al Fattan on right. You will see that they have ripped up the pavement and fencing at the BC boundary. Presumably this is where the tram track is going? The station could just be beyond west tower BC where the portacabins are now next to the road?

http://i30.tinypic.com/21e8cc3.jpg

indeed, it has to be, i checked my photo's taken in July and there is space for this. there is no other space available at BC spot, unless it will come further down the road.

Al Tayer: It is the Region’s First-Ever Tram Built on Hi Tech
HH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, approved Al Safooh Tram Project, stretching 14 km along Al Safooh Road, linking Madinat Jumeirah & Mall of the Emirates with Dubai Marina & Jumeirah Beach Residence. The tram network project costs about AED 4 billion, and has network spanning across 19 stations thus serving the central business districts and residences in the area.
According to the directives of HH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum a modern transit system will be put in place to meet the requirements of demographic growth and at the same time enhance the image of Dubai as a Modern Hub. Requirements of inhabitants and visitors of the emirate have to be addressed with a view to provide safe and smooth transport for all.
H.E. Mattar Al Tayer, Chairman of the Board and Executive Director of Roads & Transport Authority (RTA), stated in the Press Conference held yesterday that the Al Safooh Tram Project is part and parcel of a master plan to provide mass transit systems up to 2020, covering metro, tram, bus, and marine lines. “The path of Al Safooh Tram interchanges with the Red Line of Dubai Metro at three stations along Sheikh Zayed Road, by means of pedestrian crossings, enabling smooth passenger movement between the two modes. The Tram will also interlink with the monorail of The Palm Jumeirah at the entry point of The Palm at Al Safooh Road so as to ease the movement of passengers commuting between areas served by both projects” he said.
“Selecting the company entrusted with the implementation of the Tram Project came as a result of an international tender in which a large group of leading global companies specialized in metro & tram design took part. The Contract was awarded to the Consortium consisting of the French Alstom, the Belgium Besix, the British Serco, and the American Parsons; which will undertake the detailed design works, while the French Systra Co. will act as RTA Consultant of the Project.
“The Project is set to serve residential & commercial areas extending along the path of the tram in the areas of Al Safooh, Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence. During the last few years, these areas witnessed high-class urban development covering residential, commercial and tourist fields, including iconic structures such as Mall of the Emirate, Madinat Jumeirah and Burj Al Arab. They also cover areas of specific importance such as Knowledge Village, Dubai Media City, and Dubai Internet City as well as other projects under construction phase in Dubai Marina, and projects under planning phase such as Jumeirah Hills.
“Demographic surveys, population density estimates and manpower distribution along the tram path revealed that those areas are inhabited by about 180,000 residents, 210,000 workers, and 20,000 visitors. Population density coupled with the vital nature of activities in the area highlight the importance of having a tram network in place, as a first step that will be followed with a series of similar transit modes spanning across densely populated areas of the emirate in future” he said.
Planning & Designing Features
The Chairman of the Board and Executive Director of the RTA commented on the planning & designing aspects of Al Safooh Tram Project and said that the in-land path of the tram stretches mainly at the ground level of Al Safooh Road. The track rises across flyovers in some locations in Dubai Marina due to the requirements of the urban environment in the locality. The tram path stretches in parallel line with the Red Line of Dubai Metro in certain parts of Sheikh Zayed Road near Dubai Marina, where tram-metro links have been established in those locations.
“From a technical and design viewpoint, Al Safooh Tram Project adopts the latest technologies, particularly in designing of cars and power supply. The system is harmonious and fully compatible with the urban environment and civil structures in the area. The Stations have been designed at the highest standards to ensure optimum operational performance and added aesthetic values to the existing urban structures of the area” added Al Tayer.
Al Tayer explained the features of the Al Safooh Tram Project and announced that each tram train measures 44 meters in length and has a capacity to accommodate 300 passengers. The tram fleet consists of 11 trains in Phase I, while 14 trains will be added in Phase II such that the total number of trains will rise to 25. He further revealed that Al Safooh Tram is featured by a First Class Coach (Golden Suite) and another dedicated for Women & Children, in addition to a Silver Class. The interior designs of both cars and stations are marked by superb finishing at deluxe standards, and trams will be fitted with the latest broadcasting & display technology of information as well as recreational materials.
“Among the characteristics of Al Safooh Tram is that it will not require overhead electrical cables (Catenary Free) as the tram will be supplied with electricity through safe and modern ground cable system, and all stations will be air-conditioned. Al Safooh Tram will be the world’s first tram network to use platform screen doors fully aligned with the train’s doors opening and closing mechanism. This will provide extra comfort; safety and security to passengers and at the same time maintain the efficient air-conditioning of stations and tram cars. Passenger platforms measures 44 meters and are equipped with Automatic Ticket Vending Machines.
The Press Conference was attended by Abdul Majeed Al Khaja - CEO of RTA Rail Agency, a number of other RTA CEOs, Laila Taher – Director of RTA Executive Office, Laila Hareb – Acting Director of Marketing & Corporate Communication Dep’t, and a number of Departmental Directors & Section Managers.

^^These announcements are great news...especially as when we are all p*ssed off with our BC fixtures and fittings we can go into the tram and see what real luxury looks like.

Now can I safely assume that the Bay Central Tram stop is nearer than the Torch's metro stop? nananana! :lol:

Now can I safely assume that the Bay Central
Tram stop is nearer than the Torch's metro stop? nananana! :lol:

It is :yes: until HT finishes his drawing for the newer map.

^^These announcements are great news...especially as when we are all p*ssed off with our BC fixtures and fittings we can go into the tram and see what real luxury looks like.

Now can I safely assume that the Bay Central Tram stop is nearer than the Torch's metro stop? nananana! :lol:

Am told quite reliably that BC Fixtures and fixtures ARE being upgraded from current specs - watch this space for pics

Am told quite reliably that BC Fixtures and fixtures ARE being upgraded from current specs - watch this space for pics

As long as it bears some resemblence to what was sold to me then I will be happy!

BTW will these pics be CGI or the real deal?

As long as it bears some resemblence to what was sold to me then I will be happy!

BTW will these pics be CGI or the real deal?

Not sure when we willl have pics but will be the real deal

CGI's need to be thing of the past

Where are they going to find 8m to 12m width in that area to accommodate 2 shelters and double track?

Yd0BydsBoDE
http://www.royalhaskoningarchitecten.com/assets/projecten/KunstwerkenConstructies/AlSuffouh/2.jpg

it will be a single track going in one direction inside the marina! check the tram map again, you will see a single yellow line (follow the yellow arrows also) going in one direction, from the first bridge it passes in the marina, passing by BC and all the way to the promenade, then going over the bridge back toward SZR, where it becomes two tracks again (two blue elevated lines) heading back toward Marina Mall.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3732/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tramroutefull5bz4.jpg/)

OK, that's more achievable in that case :cheers:
It must be at a higher level before it splits as they have the same problem on the road parallel to SZR :dunno:

http://i40.tinypic.com/a5hiqc.jpg

awesome awesome news, going to be fantastic even with a crappy lampshade......I will take that, thanks you guys for some positivity, you pessimistic @3£kers can chew on that....

Can you please refrain from referring me to the above, I find that highly offensive... if we have a dismilar view on things regardless dont refer me as a 'pessimistic @3£kers' or to anyone who may not share the exact views as you.

I expect you are above 18? and hence I would expect an adult attitude and behaviour.... completely unecessary and uncalled for.

Can you please refrain from referring me to the above, I find that highly offensive... if we have a dismilar view on things regardless dont refer me as a 'pessimistic @3£kers' or to anyone who may not share the exact views as you.

I expect you are above 18? and hence I would expect an adult attitude and behaviour.... completely unecessary and uncalled for.

then don't act like a 'pessimistic @3£kers' then

^^These announcements are great news...especially as when we are all p*ssed off with our BC fixtures and fittings we can go into the tram and see what real luxury looks like.

Now can I safely assume that the Bay Central Tram stop is nearer than the Torch's metro stop? nananana! :lol:

it would be rude of me to mention than BC is superior to the Torch in every respect so I won't

it would be rude of me to mention than BC is superior to the Torch in every respect so I won't

Thanks for NOT mentioning that!

I am not really sure what upgraded really means? Does it mean it is better then originally intended? Or is it the same sh*t with a different gravy?

:lol:

then don't act like a 'pessimistic @3£kers' then

no no - act like optimistic @3£kers instead!


:banana:

Can you please refrain from referring me to the above, I find that highly offensive... if we have a dismilar view on things regardless dont refer me as a 'pessimistic @3£kers' or to anyone who may not share the exact views as you.

I expect you are above 18? and hence I would expect an adult attitude and behaviour.... completely unecessary and uncalled for.

Jac23y I dont recall even mentioning you directly in any post I have made here, you must have one serious inferiority complex. My post was not directed at you for the record it was just a brash statement of how I felt at the time. I am sorry if I offended you. Just you.

I am slightly over 18 (perhaps not mentally) and have gone through this whole song and dance in another developement where I had ulcers for a year from worry before the thing got eventually built and now in my 2cnd year of rental income I am very happy with my decision to invest in that particular developement and understood basically when i got my keys on handover what a waste of time it was worrying for a whole year. A liitle positivity can spread on this forum and I think in these times that is a very good thing indeed after months of "doom and Gloom".

I for one will continue and try and be positive (again sorry if this offends) and for now the glass is very much half full.

Maybe we can have another thread for 'pessimistic @3£kers' and one for positive @3£kers?????

Great news if this tram is stopping RIGHT OUTSIDE.
How long do you think it would take from getting on the tram outside to connect with the Metro and be in the city (a rough idea please)?
Whatever the time there is no two ways about it, this will give us a great advantage when it comes to other apartments in the Marina.
One other point which slightly puzzles me is surely the EXACT location of the tram and stations would be out in the public domain if it is this far along or is this not how they do things in Dubai?

Where are they going to find 8m to 12m width in that area to accommodate 2 shelters and double track?


http://www.royalhaskoningarchitecten.com/assets/projecten/KunstwerkenConstructies/AlSuffouh/2.jpg

there is enough space , just need to remove the landscaping and pavement:)

07/August/2009

Bay Central

http://i26.tinypic.com/2j31cvc.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/nv8eua.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/28s0o4w.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/dc9947.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/339hb9v.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2rw3xc4.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/amv4gg.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/zt9jqr.jpg

Are these piles for the hotel tower or the podium?

monthly progress report. 3 floors higher and some work done on the basement levels. an average of one floor every 10 days. still not bad giving the 12.30-3pm summer break!

thanks imre.

July 8th

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8137/56685729.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/56685729.jpg/) http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/56685729.jpg/1/w1280.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img29/56685729.jpg/1/)

August 7th

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/853/amv4gg.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/amv4gg.jpg/)

Not bad progress considering the extreme heat................from the weather not the investors:lol:

When was the piling meant to be finished according to SP schedule?

^^Forget it found it myself:lol:

So they have lost another month on the hotel and only the second hurdle:ohno:

http://i40.tinypic.com/11uanf7.jpg

For comparison;
http://i42.tinypic.com/ajp6jo.jpg

^^Forget it found it myself:lol:

So they have lost another month on the hotel and only the second hurdle:ohno:



the update you quote, you miserable **** , is not the last one ie the one issued June 09

if you are going to try to take the p*** get your facts right :ohno:

PS how the smell of turds at your place? still strong? well that's because of the bull shit you keep pumping out as well as the crap location of your property right next to a sewage farm. Appropriate location for you :nuts:

PPS you are probably right we are slipping behind but not by much.


THANKS IMRE AS ALWAYS FOR THE PICS

the update you quote, you miserable **** , is not the last one ie the one issued June 09

if you are going to try to take the p*** get your facts right :ohno:

PS how the smell of turds at your place? still strong? well that's because of the bull shit you keep pumping out as well as the crap location of your property right next to a sewage farm. Appropriate location for you :nuts:

PPS you are probably right we are slipping behind but not by much.


THANKS IMRE AS ALWAYS FOR THE PICS

There is a big difference between a desalination plant and a sewage treatment plant you numbskull!!

The original schedule is the one you base the current delays on. Try and keep up mister Slowhead:bash:

I'm quite enjoying you now:lol:

the update you quote, you miserable **** , is not the last one ie the one issued June 09

if you are going to try to take the p*** get your facts right :ohno:

PS how the smell of turds at your place? still strong? well that's because of the bull shit you keep pumping out as well as the crap location of your property right next to a sewage farm. Appropriate location for you :nuts:

PPS you are probably right we are slipping behind but not by much.


THANKS IMRE AS ALWAYS FOR THE PICS

Difference is THE JEWELS is FINISHED, PRETTY GOOD QUALITY, and some reasales are around 1200 -1300 aed psf - I am looking at one myself
Having said that I think (pretty sure now ) BC is going to step up a gear in quality of finishes --since the problems at TP

Imre - I will be over end August hope we can get up The TORCH again think mine will be built then - i'd like some shots for the rental brochure LOL

GOOD progress in BC - do wish they'd tidy that site up though

I edited my post above to keep my good friend Slowhand happy.

It has probably been discussed before but I only just noted it now. Why is the Hotel Tower now called East Tower?:dunno:

I have to be honest here.......I'm dissappointed hardly any real progress over last few weeks........West Tower at 11th floor same as last week so no progress at all. One floor added to Central Tower. Dissappointing seeing as SG have advised a floor takes 5 days which seems about right given the smallish floorplate of each tower. No progress at all on the podium which appears to have come to a complete standstill. Site still looks like a teenager's bedroom.
In fact there is still much excavating and cementing to the ground to be done (sorry don't know the technical term) around the west and central towers where we can see no podium work yet. In other words much prepration work before the formwork can be installed for first floor of basement - and this excludes the area around the east tower.
Project was launched Nov'06 so 3 years in another 3 months time and piling for hotel tower still not done..... unbelievable seeing as BC was sold with a completion date of Dec'09 !!! Yes it's hot summer weather and Ramadan comming along soon. Not sure now about my estimate of handover in summer of 2011, there's soooooo much to do.

Are Jewels resales really 1200 to 1300 sq ft ?? Any real evidence from sales or just asking prices ?? If true that's really good news for Marina property market.

Site still looks like a teenager's bedroom.


Quote of the day:laugh:

Yes Jewels apartments are on offer at around the 1000aed/ft2 and the owners will still get a premium on these prices. The problem is that the apartments are massive and as such you could get a 3 or 4 bed elsewhere for the same cash.

Depends if you want more bedrooms or extra space for the baby grand. The Jewels is a poor mans Le Reve, check this one out.

http://www.bhomes.com/UAE/residential/sales/Dubai/Dubai_Marina/The_Jewels_Tower_K/247897.xhtml

Quote of the day:laugh:

Yes Jewels apartments are on offer at around the 1000aed/ft2 and the owners will still get a premium on these prices. The problem is that the apartments are massive and as such you could get a 3 or 4 bed elsewhere for the same cash.

Depends if you want more bedrooms or extra space for the baby grand. The Jewels is a poor mans Le Reve, check this one out.

http://www.bhomes.com/UAE/residential/sales/Dubai/Dubai_Marina/The_Jewels_Tower_K/247897.xhtml
Thanks TB -- I had worked out ppsqft out wrong before --the one on the left of this apartment is for sale and its at same price as this - whats the gym and common areas like and what's the price for rentals like any idea ?

Thanks TB -- I had worked out ppsqft out wrong before --the one on the left of this apartment is for sale and its at same price as this - whats the gym and common areas like and what's the price for rentals like any idea ?

I had photos of everything but my 10 year old pc packed in. The gym is very good, had a great boxercise machine which was ideal for those times when someone gets on your tits. The main point is that there is only 110 apts in the development so never busy if you go during office hours. The pool is also practical as it is designed as a lap pool and is popular with the outdoor exercise crew. Sauna and steam rooms are next to the pool and gym so if you want to guarantee a good night sleep do a session in the gym followed by a couple of cycles of high heat baths in the steam room and cold plunges into the pool. You will sleep like a baby:)

All of the lift lobbies on each floor are nicely done with marble floors and feature ceilings giving the 5 star hotel feel.

1 beds are renting around 110,000 and 2 beds 150,000. Returns are therefore not that great as asking prices are average 2.4M for a 2 bed giving only 6% yeild. I think there is more scope for future capital growth as the market matures. If you were super wealthy would you want to buy in a busy development of 1000 units or buy in an eye catching development of 100 units with equivalent facilities.The Jewels is being held back by the lack of landscaping and completion of the marina, but that will be rectified soon. No onsite 5 star hotels but a few just round the corner:)

I had photos of everything but my 10 year old pc packed in. The gym is very good, had a great boxercise machine which was ideal for those times when someone gets on your tits. The main point is that there is only 110 apts in the development so never busy if you go during office hours. The pool is also practical as it is designed as a lap pool and is popular with the outdoor exercise crew. Sauna and steam rooms are next to the pool and gym so if you want to guarantee a good night sleep do a session in the gym followed by a couple of cycles of high heat baths in the steam room and cold plunges into the pool. You will sleep like a baby:)

All of the lift lobbies on each floor are nicely done with marble floors and feature ceilings giving the 5 star hotel feel.

1 beds are renting around 110,000 and 2 beds 150,000. Returns are therefore not that great as asking prices are average 2.4M for a 2 bed giving only 6% yeild. I think there is more scope for future capital growth as the market matures. If you were super wealthy would you want to buy in a busy development of 1000 units or buy in an eye catching development of 100 units with equivalent facilities.The Jewels is being held back by the lack of landscaping and completion of the marina, but that will be rectified soon. No onsite 5 star hotels but a few just round the corner:)


TB - thanjks for that - remember there will be a 5 star hotel at BC or will there another res tower ??
ps Noticed pentHOUSE is 1000aed psf at TJ on Cayan site (if i win the lottery could buy it !)

I edited my post above to keep my good friend Slowhand happy.

It has probably been discussed before but I only just noted it now. Why is the Hotel Tower now called East Tower?:dunno:

How many more times, THERE AINT NO HOTEL.:bash:

How many more times, THERE AINT NO HOTEL.:bash:

Do you have any facts to back this up Charlie, or is it just your gut feeling ??

On behalf of investors in dubai sports city some developers (Memon /champion towers/ )are trying to charge investors 20 Durham's per square foot connection charge for electricity per apartment!
This amounts too thousands of pounds worth of unexpected costs !
Any thoughts on this matter and are any other investors getting this charges ?

Only thought is why are you posting it on here...so SG read it and get ideas?

Only thought is why are you posting it on here...so SG read it and get ideas?

On behalf of investors in dubai sports city some developers (Memon /champion towers/ )are trying to charge investors 20 Durham's per square foot connection charge for electricity per apartment!
This amounts too thousands of pounds worth of unexpected costs !
Any thoughts on this matter and are any other investors getting this charges ?

Could you just stick to the text in question :ohno:

Any thoughts on this matter and are any other investors getting this charges ?

It's totally unacceptable and pleased to tell you that Bay Central investors are not being charged this.

How many more times, THERE AINT NO HOTEL.:bash:

We'll take it that this is just your gut feeling then Charlie.

Thanks for sharing the contents of your guts with us again. :lol:

We'll take it that this is just your gut feeling then Charlie.

Thanks for sharing the contents of your guts with us again. :lol:
^^
Common sense Morris and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out .. There AINT no Hotel .. look at the site today. Statements to suggest its starting soon are just to keep investors calm, and to prevent another wave of discussions/bombarding phone calls with regards to this.

People have posted specific links on this forum to Marriott's website, videos, etc, some very recently, suggesting there *is* a hotel.

Some others are keen to post rumours and speculation. Common sense says if there's a Marriott executive talking of a new hotel in the Marina, then it's happenning.

Real question is not IF but WHEN is the hotel tower going to be ready?

I bought into this development because it's USP was the onsite linked hotel that could service our apartments. So if they handover the residential towers well before the hotel opens, then we as investors will need to put up with construction noise, dust and traffic.

I am not even sure that Master Developer would allow seperate handover of residential towers (unless all heavy lifting and external work had been done in hotel tower).

Basically, as an investor I need to see that hotel tower going up asap in order to even try and meet the previously communicated "Overall Project Completion Deadline" of Dec 2010.

Ohhhh - they also only have 4 months to meet their own target of "Structures Complete" by Dec 2009.

Now I'm no True Blue, but I think it is a safe bet IMHO to say that all structures will NOT be complete by 31st Dec 2009.

Real question is not IF but WHEN is the hotel tower going to be ready? AGREED. THERE WILL BE A HOTEL. CONTRACT IS IN PLACE

I bought into this development because it's USP was the onsite linked hotel that could service our apartments. THERE IS A LINK VIA A SERVICE CORRIDOR So if they handover the residential towers well before the hotel opens, then we as investors will need to put up with construction noise, dust and traffic.

I am not even sure that Master Developer would allow seperate handover of residential towers (unless all heavy lifting and external work had been done in hotel tower). AGREED. HANDOVER OF RESIDENTIAL TOWERS WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE UNTIL OUTSIDE OF HOTEL IS FINISHED BUT BEFORE INTERNAL FIT OUT IS COMPLETE

Basically, as an investor I need to see that hotel tower going up asap in order to even try and meet the previously communicated "Overall Project Completion Deadline" of Dec 2010. AGREED. HOPEFULLY NEXT UPDATE (DUE ANYTIME) WILL COMMENT ON THIS

Ohhhh - they also only have 4 months to meet their own target of "Structures Complete" by Dec 2009.NITPICKING IT IS NEARER 5 MONTHS

Now I'm no True Blue, but I think it is a safe bet IMHO to say that all structures will NOT be complete by 31st Dec 2009. STILL POSSIBLE. I AM PLANNING FOR JUNE 11 HANDOVER ANYWAY

slowhand

Why would you even bother to answer TB's statement when you know he is only at the mix. Use the ignore function to switch his posts off. They are useless now he only gossips about stuff. Gone are the days of his valuable input...

Mark

Why would you even bother to answer TB's statement when you know he is only at the mix. Use the ignore function to switch his posts off. They are useless now he only gossips about stuff. Gone are the days of his valuable input...

Mark

apologies for wasting everyone's time but I do like kicking the numpties

yep, it's a hotel. no doubt. confirmed.

^^^^Hope you include me in your list of numpties. Remember 4 months ago, live on this thread I told you to buy Ceres Power at 80p. They closed at £2.40 tonight. That was a gut feeling as well was it Morris. Remember son, it aint what you know................

apologies for wasting everyone's time but I do like kicking the numpties

yep, it's a hotel. no doubt. confirmed.
^^
Simple, Lets wait and see who gets the last laugh ... I know where my money is

Fantastic return on the shares Charlie, well done. :)

I must profess to having some doubts about the Hotel.......how can anybody be 100% sure...... there's always the possibility we're being strung along by SG. After all they're not going to come clean even if it has been cancelled....they'd tell us as late as possible......they've got to keep the cash rolling in. But I've no reason to believe it's been ditched. Current economic climate could make it unfeasible I suppose. There's been a massive credit crunch. I do find that slow progress on the east tower more than dissappointing. Who would have thought back in November 2006 when BC was launched we'd be still watching the hotel tower piling being done 2 years and 9 months later !! Like many developers in Dubai SG play the "completion in 3 years but we really mean 6 years" scam.

^^^^Hope you include me in your list of numpties. Remember 4 months ago, live on this thread I told you to buy Ceres Power at 80p. They closed at £2.40 tonight. That was a gut feeling as well was it Morris. Remember son, it aint what you know................

Ah...i listened to that advice along with friends and bought in at 86p. Sold at £1.96ish though but still a good turn...Paying for 12 nights in the Grosvenor House in a suite at end of October and formula 1 tickets in Abu Dhabi for us...
cheers - keep them coming
That said i still think your wrong about the hotel and for some reason you pop up from time to time with your negative comments. Who is it you know then and tell us your info about hotel then you would be helping instead of continually causing speculation. Through away comments are easy...You and TB are alike in that respect.

Is anyone on the standard payment plan?

After a 3-month holiday I am supposed to pay my next instalment on September 1st by which date I will have paid 90% of the purchase price of my studio flat which I find absurd. I sent an email 10 days ago but nobody bothered to reply. I will just postpone the payment at least to December.

Is anyone on the standard payment plan?

After a 3-month holiday I am supposed to pay my next instalment on September 1st by which date I will have paid 90% of the purchase price of my studio flat which I find absurd. I sent an email 10 days ago but nobody bothered to reply. I will just postpone the payment at least to December.

I wouldn't just postpone your payment without "approval" as you will be in clear breach of contract. PM me an email address and I can give you a few contact details and hopefully you'll get to speak with someone and get it sorted.

Ah...i listened to that advice along with friends and bought in at 86p. Sold at £1.96ish though but still a good turn...Paying for 12 nights in the Grosvenor House in a suite at end of October and formula 1 tickets in Abu Dhabi for us...
cheers - keep them coming
That said i still think your wrong about the hotel and for some reason you pop up from time to time with your negative comments. Who is it you know then and tell us your info about hotel then you would be helping instead of continually causing speculation. Through away comments are easy...You and TB are alike in that respect.

Well done DxbPC on your share purchase. I am nothing like TB, he has a fantastic amount of construction knowledge, I just speculate! Morris check the TP thread theres a number for you. Even you are calling it the East tower now.

Is anyone on the standard payment plan?

After a 3-month holiday I am supposed to pay my next instalment on September 1st by which date I will have paid 90% of the purchase price of my studio flat which I find absurd. I sent an email 10 days ago but nobody bothered to reply. I will just postpone the payment at least to December.

I wondered this as well, have emailed twice, called once and spoke to vetlana or svetlana who said it should be ok for another 3 month payment deferal but never got back to me. Seems the service that was once pretty good from the UK side is now non existent. :ohno:
Big sigh of relief once this thing goes up, anyone with any other info on payment deferals please advise.

I wondered this as well, have emailed twice, called once and spoke to vetlana or svetlana who said it should be ok for another 3 month payment deferal but never got back to me. Seems the service that was once pretty good from the UK side is now non existent. :ohno:
Big sigh of relief once this thing goes up, anyone with any other info on payment deferals please advise.

I had the same issue, I contacted RERA who stated clearly that a new law is in place where all payments must be linked to construction progress. Although RERA have not issued a statement or document on their website they have notified all developers in Dubai that they must follow this. Any invester can now request a progress report from the developer which provides construction progress approved by RERA which will then show how much payment you are obliged to make.

I have emailed svetlana all this who is going to get back to me, I will post any feedback...

I wondered this as well, have emailed twice, called once and spoke to vetlana or svetlana who said it should be ok for another 3 month payment deferal but never got back to me. Seems the service that was once pretty good from the UK side is now non existent. :ohno:
Big sigh of relief once this thing goes up, anyone with any other info on payment deferals please advise.

I will soon make another instalment on 1st Sept which will make it 90% paid. I was offered, because I applied for, a 3 month delay to 1st Dec. I won't take the offer up (because it is cheaper not to in my circumstances) but if you pursue SG they are very likely to agree to a 3 month delay I would have thought but get a move on as there is not much time.

I would not advise anyone to delay a payment without SG's permission. If you do you will be in breach of contract and in unknown territory. What do you gain by a 3 month delay anyway? If you get yourself into difficulties over this then you only have yourself to blame. Like 'em or not the rules are clear and you signed up to them as I did. Not sure anyone can rely on RERA to come to your defence from the comments I've read on this forum.

The key reason why the UK service stopped was because of the continual threatening harassment behind the scenes from the likes of Mistermark, Mackie and the other selfish ****s looking for a special deal for themselves. These characters and the others who make ill considered, throw away and negative remarks either misunderstand the balance of power in our situation or are not investors and couldn't care less. A more positive but behind the scenes approach would have got better results but investors lack consensus and are difficult to organise as a group.

The facts are that good progress has been made on BC since Xmas as the photos show(as well as the Point and the Torch), anyone who has been to Dubai will see BC is in a fabulous location and environment, BC will have a tram stop nearby etc. (You wouldn't want to live next to a sewage works like TB would you.) Handover should be in less than 2 years now. Overall a good result in the circumstances.

I will soon make another instalment on 1st Sept which will make it 90% paid. I was offered, because I applied, a 3 month delay to 1st Dec. I won't take the offer up (because it is cheaper not to in my circumstances) but if you pursue SG they are very likely to agree to a 3 month delay I would have thought but get a move on as there is not much time.

I would not advise anyone to delay a payment without SG's permission. If you do you will be in breach of contract and in unknown territory. What do you gain by a 3 month delay anyway? If you get yourself into difficulties over this then you only have yourself to blame. Like 'em or not the rules are clear and you signed up to them as I did. Not sure anyone can rely on RERA to come to your defence from the comments I've read on this forum.

The key reason why the UK service stopped was because of the continual threatening harassment behind the scenes from the likes of Mistermark, Mackie and the other selfish ****s looking for a special deal for themselves. These characters and the others who make ill considered, throw away and negative remarks either misunderstand the balance of power in our situation or are not investors and couldn't care less. A more positive but behind the scenes approach would have got better results but investors lack consensus and are difficult to organise as a group.

The facts are that good progress has been made on BC since Xmas as the photos show(as well as the Point and the Torch), anyone who has been to Dubai will see BC is in a fabulous location and environment, BC will have a tram stop nearby etc. (You wouldn't want to live next to a sewage works like TB would you.) Handover should be in less than 2 years now. Overall a good result in the circumstances.

I am sure we are not aware of the true reasons behind the Uk service shutting down but am pretty sure its not because of a few plonkers causing grief to them. I have the capital to pay the next premium now but why the hell should I when they have officially delayed the build by 1 year (we know it will be more) and the capital can be invested elsewhere in the meantime.
I have been Emailing to Dubai from 5 weeks ago with zero reply so one option is not to pay until I hear from them. They need to start communicating to investors ASAP.

Inside TGI Fridays - Marina mall.

YcxPGq4CR8Q

If you fast forward into video above to around 3 mins and 30 secs you will see a fantastic video of BC and Marina Quays.

The longer they delay starting on the hotel tower the more worried I get that they are not going to build it.
If it was still going ahead surely they would have released the date piling is going to commence?
If the hotel does get cancelled I will promise you I am not going to take this lying down.

Your apartments are not going to get any services from the hotel anyway.

So does the hotel maters?:)

Even if the hotel doesn't provide any services, the fact that there is a 5-star hotel in the same complex definitely adds value to the residential blocks.