You would prefer a concrete balcony??? Have you not read and understood anything written here. Just ask anyone in Marina Sail where there is both. There is a 3 year track record showing significant problems in renting or selling concrete fronted balconies over glass ones.

I wouldn't get excited about opinions of Morrismarina. Do the opposite of whatever he proposes, that's my advice:lol:

BC does have marble floors. TB I think you have Selective memory (excuse the pun :lol:). Not so long ago you were criticising SG for not only using marble floors in the lounge area etc, but also in the bathrooms. So you know damn well that BC has marble floors !!

Regarding the concrete balconies I personally would actually prefer the concrete balcony. Gives more privacy, if I were on the balcony in my budgie smugglers having my lunch I'm not sure I would want all and sundry down below or across the Marina taking a look. I'd much rather have a solid wall that I can peak over. Only my preference as I say, but I'd be very surprised if values would actually be reduced as some on here are claiming. Quite a bit of scaremongering as usual. :ohno:

I don't remember criticising them for using marble in the lounge areas because they don't. Unless you buy a £multimillion villa or penthouse. I did criticise the use of polished marble in the bathroom as anyone with half a brain knows it can be trecherous stepping out of a wet bath onto a polished marble floor. Travertine and limestone have good grip when wet but not polished marble.

Select used it in the bathrooms so they could say they have marble floors in the apartments when in reality it is the smallest room they installed them in.

You should NOT sign this full stop !! it gives SG a complete "get out " for any ongoing issues in the future like realising your apartment may be 15 to 20% less than the SPA says?

I find it incredible that DubaiSteve is still advising people to sign this illegal document and giving up all rights to any remedy they might need at a later date when they find out they have been duped. What about the warranty and 10 year structural guarantee? Point owners found out that they didn't have a warranty and had signed the addendum relieving Select of "all liabilities or ongoing obligations". Think about it, it could apply to the warranty!!

Steve, wake up mate! You're embarassing yourself trying to cover the arses of these croo,,,er,,,buggers.

I don't remember criticising them for using marble in the lounge areas because they don't.

I stand corrected then TB not the the best photo but looks a bit like marble perhaps ?? Are you really saying SG only put marble flooring in the bathroom ??

http://i53.tinypic.com/2qcin0l.jpg

I stand corrected then TB not the the best photo but looks a bit like marble perhaps ?? Are you really saying SG only put marble flooring in the bathroom ??

http://i53.tinypic.com/2qcin0l.jpg

There is only marble in the bathrooms but to my knowledge that's all that was sold to us and is quoted in the SPA

pictures on skyscraperlist west tower cladding on roof started

http://www.skyscraperlist.com/showthread.php?359-BAY-CENTRAL-36F-36F-50F-Res-Hotel-155m-180m-155m/page8

Once this development is completed will it be possible to remortgage with a bank and get off the LPP?

19/September/2011

Bay Central

http://i52.tinypic.com/so2tg2.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/w15gfb.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/169j8dw.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2eptyet.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/v3ktap.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/wceczl.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/5eh7k7.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2a4ojk4.jpg

^^ imre you put 19th sep its the 16th.. great pictures thanks

yes, I think all date wrong today:)

I don't understand the use of the lack of symetry on the West tower. Maybe it will make sense when the East tower is done.

Having said that, if the East tower is not an exact mirror image of the West tower it will be another architectural disaster.

Once this development is completed will it be possible to remortgage with a bank and get off the LPP?

Absolutely!

UAE banks are financing only UAE Residents and you must have a title deed as well.

Can you get a mortgage from UK?

UAE banks are financing only UAE Residents and you must have a title deed as well.

Can you get a mortgage from UK?

Hi Imre, Yes, theres a couple of UK banks that will do it after completion.

Hi Imre, Yes, theres a couple of UK banks that will do it after completion.some do but are very reluctant at present

RW, does your apt happen to be #2812? It looked v much like the '12' unit in the pictures you posted earlier.

some do but are very reluctant at present

Presumably if you already have a UK mortgage for your UK home then probably it will have to be a buy to let style mortgage for which you would need to prove projected rental income will be sufficient to cover a % of the repayments?

I have the head of personal banking for one of the BIG 5 UK banks staying with me here in Spain right now. Personal friend. I just showed him the post stating that UK banks would lend on property in Dubai. He just laughed.......

The only way you could raise money for property in Dubai would be to re-mortgage a UK property and spend the cash raised in Dubai.

UK banks are unable to get "clear title" in terms of a charge that is legally enforceable under the terms of UK law, hence they will NOT loan on Dubai property currently.

Presumably if you already have a UK mortgage for your UK home then probably it will have to be a buy to let style mortgage for which you would need to prove projected rental income will be sufficient to cover a % of the repayments?

I have the head of personal banking for one of the BIG 5 UK banks staying with me here in Spain right now. Personal friend. I just showed him the post stating that UK banks would lend on property in Dubai. He just laughed.......

The only way you could raise money for property in Dubai would be to re-mortgage a UK property and spend the cash raised in Dubai.

UK banks are unable to get "clear title" in terms of a charge that is legally enforceable under the terms of UK law, hence they will NOT loan on Dubai property currently.

In fact they are struggling to loan on UK property -- so DUBAI forget it !!

I think some UAE banks are lending to EXPATS with 60% down, clear title and proven value in the property

I have the head of personal banking for one of the BIG 5 UK banks staying with me here in Spain right now. Personal friend. I just showed him the post stating that UK banks would lend on property in Dubai. He just laughed.......

The only way you could raise money for property in Dubai would be to re-mortgage a UK property and spend the cash raised in Dubai.

UK banks are unable to get "clear title" in terms of a charge that is legally enforceable under the terms of UK law, hence they will NOT loan on Dubai property currently.
You are correct. Off course remortgage rates are not good at present. Banks are looking for at least 30 to 40 % deposit for giving you a decent rate.

How long do you need to be an expat for? Can I get a job, get the mortgage, then quit the job? :D

This you can do, but most banks look for 6 months UAE Bank statements and an employment contract. Even then it is not easy and the rates are high.

If you are not already a Dubai resident, this will be very difficult.

Raising money in UK against a UK asset is still the best way forward in my opinion unless you are already living and working in Dubai.

How long do you need to be an expat for? Can I get a job, get the mortgage, then quit the job? :D

Thanks so only those already rich in asset equity can buy something in Dubai and expats would rather rent so don't really expect many sales currently then. Guess we need to wait for rental prices to increase considerably in order that yields are high before banks will be more interested. Few years at least before that can happen given the amount of supply still in the pipeline, even in the marina.

I have the head of personal banking for one of the BIG 5 UK banks staying with me here in Spain right now. Personal friend. I just showed him the post stating that UK banks would lend on property in Dubai. He just laughed.......

The only way you could raise money for property in Dubai would be to re-mortgage a UK property and spend the cash raised in Dubai.

UK banks are unable to get "clear title" in terms of a charge that is legally enforceable under the terms of UK law, hence they will NOT loan on Dubai property currently.

The information was read recently here.

http://www.woolwich.co.uk/mortgages/buying-abroad.html

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-nbd-mulls-home-loans-for-overseas-buyers--412627.html

RW, does your apt happen to be #2812? It looked v much like the '12' unit in the pictures you posted earlier.

No, I'm not 2812

major developers are restarting many stalled projects, further increasing the supply. also, economic conditions are not expected to improve anytime soon. in fact, economic conditions look like they are about to get worse for a prolong period!!! i see worsening or stagnant real estate market for the next 3-4 years.

the good thing about the real estate market in dubai now is that the market has become differentiated according to quality and location. so if you buy in the right location, you will be ok long term.

Thanks so only those already rich in asset equity can buy something in Dubai and expats would rather rent so don't really expect many sales currently then. Guess we need to wait for rental prices to increase considerably in order that yields are high before banks will be more interested. Few years at least before that can happen given the amount of supply still in the pipeline, even in the marina.

If you are UAE resident since long and working with reputed company, plus property with title deed.... many banks are offering with 80% and with 5-6% interest rate. e.g. Tamweel, Standard Chartered etc.

This you can do, but most banks look for 6 months UAE Bank statements and an employment contract. Even then it is not easy and the rates are high.

If you are not already a Dubai resident, this will be very difficult.

Raising money in UK against a UK asset is still the best way forward in my opinion unless you are already living and working in Dubai.

No, I'm not 2812

I'm not a number, I'm a free man.........I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

My money however, belongs to Select group:lol:

Have any of you looked at the link of Botanica !! I have purchased in the Torch and are appalled at not only the quality but the workmanship . The work doesn't look like its been completed by a blind man but more like his dog!!! I have also purchased in BC but to add salt to the wound i see that the finish at Botanica seems ok !!!! Why is this ?

^^ Down to DCE not doing botanica

Guess you should have paid for a Torch penthouse instead.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iY9m5bbMkSg/TntZ_MWjjYI/AAAAAAABgQ4/ftseI60uJ5Q/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%25252828%252529.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--fzpqJChBDU/TntaZ7FlEuI/AAAAAAABgRY/s7xRks665SE/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%25252836%252529.JPG

I doubt DCE fitted those?

Guess you should have paid for a Torch penthouse instead.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--fzpqJChBDU/TntaZ7FlEuI/AAAAAAABgRY/s7xRks665SE/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%25252836%252529.JPG




Nice view for a penthouse..... :bash:

Has a palm view.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Xff63eLgjF4/TntZMNkpUyI/AAAAAAABgQI/dwgCaukeIF0/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%25252816%252529.JPG

Marina view

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KVKLG3oLgFo/TntYt94_twI/AAAAAAABgPY/F7j2b9eShzA/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%2525284%252529.JPG

But it is a bit hot to sleep outside just to get that view when you wake up, no? ;)

Crane coming down from the central tower, already on half way.

23/September/2011

Bay Central

http://i56.tinypic.com/ncmpag.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/xfymh5.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/1rp43m.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/xm0lt0.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/jzikqh.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/6fs9wh.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2pradk6.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/4rwcgx.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2u8gvmq.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/vpudk3.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/90pnxw.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/suzuiv.jpg

The key to a REALLY GREAT VIEW, is what you see out of the window either sitting on your sofa, or lying on your bed. This is the "real test" of a sensational view.
Anyone can hang over their balcony taking sideways pictures...... :bash:

Has a palm view.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Xff63eLgjF4/TntZMNkpUyI/AAAAAAABgQI/dwgCaukeIF0/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%25252816%252529.JPG

Marina view

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KVKLG3oLgFo/TntYt94_twI/AAAAAAABgPY/F7j2b9eShzA/Torch%252520Dubai%252520%2525284%252529.JPG

Johnny in Spain, if you are suggestion for a second they are not stupendous views you are a complete nutter.

There are good views and there are truly STUNNING views. All I am saying is that the TRULY STUNNING views as any industry professional will tell you; the real staggering views anywhere in the world are the views you see sitting in your lounge, NOT hanging over your balcony.

So, I am not saying for one minute that any development on the edge of the marina does not have a good view, just putting the word "view" into context internationally........

It is also generally accepted that the views in the marina on the waters edge are far better the lower you are, and that the reverse is true of ocean views, where the higher views are considered better.

Johnny in Spain, if you are suggestion for a second they are not stupendous views you are a complete nutter.

Crane coming down from the central tower, already on half way.

roof hasn't been completed! don't they need the crane?

the real staggering views anywhere in the world are the views you see sitting in your lounge, NOT hanging over your balcony.

That's why my tenant likes the view from my Torch bedroom.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ih9e12.jpg

Does not feel overlooked at all and a beautiful overview of the marina lying in the bed (which also looks great at night). How many years it will stay like that is another question.

...It is also generally accepted that the views in the marina on the waters edge are far better the lower you are...

that's what I also thought. sounds reasonably, but not sure if it holds up in reality.

at least not in our building. I'm half way up in the 20s, and am blown away by the view from the top floor units (40s). both marina facing. mine is great, but theirs is just mind blowing. Marina Heights, next to Torch by the way.

I'd be utterly surprised if high floor residences were willing to trade views.

that's what I also thought. sounds reasonably, but not sure if it holds up in reality.

at least not in our building. I'm half way up in the 20s, and am blown away by the view from the top floor units (40s). both marina facing. mine is great, but theirs is just mind blowing. Marina Heights, next to Torch by the way.

I'd be utterly surprised if high floor residences were willing to trade views.

Let's not forget that higher floors were also originally priced higher! So no, I would not like to trade lower floor views!

It is also generally accepted that the views in the marina on the waters edge are far better the lower you are, and that the reverse is true of ocean views, where the higher views are considered better.

For Damac Waves Tower B , Ary Marina , Marina Sail and Al Majara lower floors like 2nd-3rd-4th good example , hard to find anything there with marina view.Marina Quays are the same.

Should be good the Silverene , Bay Central and after the Atlantic if its ever finished:)

Agreed. It does depend on the development. And of course, just because the developer sold higher floors at a higher price, does NOT automatically make the view better.

And of course there are always exceptions. Especially where the view is longer range, (example: down the full length of the marina).

Where the view is quite tight, (close), the lower floors will always be better. The examples you gave are totally correct. I think the low front corner floors of BC, centre tower facing down the marina towards Grosvenor House will be sensational and the best in the development by far.. The high floors will just be looking straight at other towers unless you hang over the balcony. The very high ocean view units will also be great as long as they are higher than JBR

One of the BEST views I have seen is in Marinascape by Trident. 5th floor corner unit facing out of the marina. Here again the low floors have sensational low panoramic marina views. Way better than the high floors!

I still think that high ocean views are better though!!

There is MUCH MORE to a truly sensational view than just height and aspect...........

For Damac Waves Tower B , Ary Marina , Marina Sail and Al Majara lower floors like 2nd-3rd-4th good example , hard to find anything there with marina view.Marina Quays are the same.

Should be good the Silverene , Bay Central and after the Atlantic if its ever finished:)

For Damac Waves Tower B , Ary Marina , Marina Sail and Al Majara lower floors like 2nd-3rd-4th good example , hard to find anything there with marina view.Marina Quays are the same.

Should be good the Silverene , Bay Central and after the Atlantic if its ever finished:)

Yes, our high floor bc views will be worth waiting for. View these on an iPad - the second one looks great as wallpaper!

Sea view balcony no.1
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i371/fwiwfwiw/0550609a.jpg

Marina view balcony no.2
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i371/fwiwfwiw/26f718dd.jpg

These were taken by our daredevil investors a while back - once we start inspections I and other investors will take more!

Yes, our high floor bc views will be worth waiting for. View these on an iPad - the second one looks great as wallpaper!

Sea view balcony no.1
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i371/fwiwfwiw/0550609a.jpg

Marina view balcony no.2
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i371/fwiwfwiw/26f718dd.jpg

These were taken by our daredevil investors a while back - once we start inspections I and other investors will take more!
You may be very surprised just how soon you may see more pictures like this from crazy investors!!

You may be very surprised just how soon you may see more pictures like this from crazy investors!!

Can't wait my friend! I will have to buy you a beer or two when we finally meet up!

Can't wait my friend! I will have to buy you a beer or two when we finally meet up! I'll have them downloaded by tomorrow. Just returned from Dubai and have more pictures for you of the views this time bigger and better and still without the safety wire........:nuts:

I'll have them downloaded by tomorrow. Just returned from Dubai and have more pictures for you of the views this time bigger and better and still without the safety wire........:nuts:

Whilst waiting for the daredevil pics, I have a few imre ones from the silverene thread!

http://i51.tinypic.com/313kj6t.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/m9t936.jpg

Whilst waiting for the daredevil pics, I have a few imre ones from the silverene thread!

http://i51.tinypic.com/313kj6t.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/m9t936.jpg

Now thats what i call a view !!

Would be even better a view, if the "wall" of the Address Hotel wouldn't block it so much.

Well it must be true because the director of asset management told us at the beginning of this year which was the last time we heard anything from Select despite his words of open channel communication! Mr. Brady and Select you are a disgrace in your treatment to owners and investors.

Well it must be true because the director of asset management told us at the beginning of this year which was the last time we heard anything from Select despite his words of open channel communication! Mr. Brady and Select you are a disgrace in your treatment to owners and investors.

Very well said. I could not have put it any better.:soapbox:

What surprises me very much is that the East tower is not progressing very fast. They do not work overtime on this tower. I expect they are counting the pennies now.

Very well said. I could not have put it any better.:soapbox:

It's fair comment. The last communication I received was for handover Q3 2011 and Select would keep, and I quote "open channel communication" with owners/investors. It is very poor that this deadline has now passed without any new information forthcoming......:ohno: It's inexcusable really

It's fair comment. The last communication I received was for handover Q3 2011 and Select would keep, and I quote "open channel communication" with owners/investors. It is very poor that this deadline has now passed without any new information forthcoming......:ohno: It's inexcusable really

Without your efforts, some of us investors would have been misled about the imminent inspection tours that were supposed to happen!

Hmmmm - my balcony has a very airy and open aspect to it!

What surprises me very much is that the East tower is not progressing very fast. They do not work overtime on this tower. I expect they are counting the pennies now.

The hotel tower is not doing too badly in my opinion. Compare this progress to West and Central and GCC are on a different planet to DCE.

Without your efforts, some of us investors would have been misled about the imminent inspection tours that were supposed to happen!

Hmmmm - my balcony has a very airy and open aspect to it!

That's not a patch on the crane structure I have in my lounge!:lol:

The hotel tower is not doing too badly in my opinion. Compare this progress to West and Central and GCC are on a different planet to DCE.

In that respect I would have to agree. The point I made badly was that there is no urgency with this project in comparison to say Botanica. The contractor is only working normal shifts.

I would have thought it would make sense to push this on to try and catch up with the other 2 towers. Especially given the state of the construction market, why could they not have negotiated this into signing the deal?

In that respect I would have to agree. The point I made badly was that there is no urgency with this project in comparison to say Botanica. The contractor is only working normal shifts.

I would have thought it would make sense to push this on to try and catch up with the other 2 towers. Especially given the state of the construction market, why could they not have negotiated this into signing the deal?

I think they are averaging about a floor a week on the hotel tower which isn't bad. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of urgency with completion of the other 2 towers. The pool area has been tidied up but no real construction progress that's visible in the last 3 months. There's still so much work to do on this project I'm having some doubts if Q1 next year is achievable at the current rate of progress.

I'm going to quote directly from a document Paul Brady the Select director of asset management sent out in January this year. Clearly he has no shame or he's completely out of his depth or perhaps both but the following are direct quotations from his document.

19th Month
"The anticipated completion date has already been advised as Q3 (July-Sept 2011) in the notice sent to all owners/buyers. We note that we continue to work diligently towards the completion of the project"

YOU SHOULD PERHAPS LOOK AT YOUR CALENDAR MORE OFTEN....

Subject to
"As agreed in the SPA-under conditions of FM the developer is obliged to complete the project on or prior to 1st January 2012. As per our latest estimates, it is anticipated that completion will be in Q3 2011. This is all that can be provided at this time however we will keep you advised of any changes to this date"

I THINK WE'RE ALL STILL WAITING TO BE ADVISED OF ANY CHANGES TO THIS DATE GIVEN ITS ALREADY PAST!!

Regular updates
"In our effort to always maintain an open channel communication policy with our buyers, we will continue to provide regular updates on the progress of the construction work on a quarterly basis as per the standard formats"

THIS ONE IS PRICELESS! THIS WAS SET IN JANUARY THIS YEAR AND IS THE LAST COMMUNICATION FROM SELECT. PERHAPS YOU SHOULD CHECK WHAT QUARTERLY MEANS AND ALSO REGULAR UPDATES.....AS WE DON'T GET EITHER

Resolution and way forward
" We would like to remind you that you have signed a valid and binding contract. We hereby request that you honour the terms of your SPA accordingly"

TALK ABOUT DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO!! HOW ABOUT YOU HONOUR THE INFORMATION IN THE LETTERS YOU SEND OUT??

Any you wonder why your name is in the gutter! Shameful behaviour and utterly shameful management.:ohno:

I'm going to quote directly from a document Paul Brady the Select director of asset management sent out in January this year. Clearly he has no shame or he's completely out of his depth or perhaps both but the following are direct quotations from his document.

19th Month
"The anticipated completion date has already been advised as Q3 (July-Sept 2011) in the notice sent to all owners/buyers. We note that we continue to work diligently towards the completion of the project"

YOU SHOULD PERHAPS LOOK AT YOUR CALENDAR MORE OFTEN....

Subject to
"As agreed in the SPA-under conditions of FM the developer is obliged to complete the project on or prior to 1st January 2012. As per our latest estimates, it is anticipated that completion will be in Q3 2011. This is all that can be provided at this time however we will keep you advised of any changes to this date"

I THINK WE'RE ALL STILL WAITING TO BE ADVISED OF ANY CHANGES TO THIS DATE GIVEN ITS ALREADY PAST!!

Regular updates
"In our effort to always maintain an open channel communication policy with our buyers, we will continue to provide regular updates on the progress of the construction work on a quarterly basis as per the standard formats"

THIS ONE IS PRICELESS! THIS WAS SET IN JANUARY THIS YEAR AND IS THE LAST COMMUNICATION FROM SELECT. PERHAPS YOU SHOULD CHECK WHAT QUARTERLY MEANS AND ALSO REGULAR UPDATES.....AS WE DON'T GET EITHER

Resolution and way forward
" We would like to remind you that you have signed a valid and binding contract. We hereby request that you honour the terms of your SPA accordingly"

TALK ABOUT DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO!! HOW ABOUT YOU HONOUR THE INFORMATION IN THE LETTERS YOU SEND OUT??

Any you wonder why your name is in the gutter! Shameful behaviour and utterly shameful management.:ohno:

Official Handover Email dated 29th September sent by Paul Brady received today. It says practical completion of residential towers expected in December 2011 and written notice of completion for West and Central Towers expected to be issued then and we can in theory inspect from then on. Maybe move in sometime qtr 2 2012?

Practical completion??? Well done Denny Crane for dragging a response from the developer but practical completion in December.....I'd need to know what their interpretation of practical completion is because the development is more than 11 weeks away from completion, of that there's no doubt.

2nd October 2011.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6075/img1388h.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7387/img1389wn.jpg

^^Someone should be able to join these for a pano.


http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5350/img1390e.jpg

Seems to be a lot of louvers on the road elevation. Don't remember it looking like that in the latest renders. :dunno:

This is the reason I would never deal with this company;

Look at the original render the West tower was sold on. See how many down grades you can spot.

http://i12.tinypic.com/33dziw4.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/4c0em8y.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/4025jyo.jpg


Massive big plant room built in front of someones West tower balcony.
Roadside elevation nothing like the very impressive render. Looks awful now with the louvres everywhere and big plant room building.
Entrance statue appears to have gone as has practically all the features.
Grand roof feature of central tower has effectively gone.
Large imposing podium is severely reduced in size and I expect the 2 towers will share a small pool instead of them having their own large pools.


Miss selling has always been my major criticism of Select and they are still getting away with it.

The original model used to sell the apartments;

http://i17.tinypic.com/4dwkscl.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mpkdwo.jpg

Drawing showing the changed layout of the podium, but even this does not match what is being built! The drawing does broadly follow this render which appears to have been created in 2008. The render does show the large plant room and plenty of louvres, however they have been tastefully disguised in the render.

http://i42.tinypic.com/919jxz.jpg

It is clear that the road elevation is never going to be as grand as it was intended;

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9748/img00009201109251402.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6382/img00008201109251401.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1184/img00007201109251401.jpg

I was looking forward to seeing how this was going to look at completion, however it is turning into a massive disappointment. The glass statue/cylinder feature looks to have gone completely and the louvres are unsightly.

Force majeure, NOT!

Some will remember that the basement and podium structures were very late in starting. Select continued to show them as complete on their progress updates but they hadn't started. They issued a letter stating that the project suffered a force majuere event and gave details of lame excuses for force majeure.

It is clear for all to see now what the actual reason is behind all the delays, Select were redesigning the podium and basements completely, along with the roof details in Central tower.

this letter is meant to deter buyers from invoking clause 16.3 of the SPA. i.e, asking for a full refund due to non-completion by 1/1/2012. notice that the letter was dated before the expiry of Q3 2011, and the promise of a December "practical completion" was set before 1/1/2012, all in an attempt to "protect" them legally.

Handover will be no sooner than the summer of 2012 imo.

Practical completion??? Well done Denny Crane for dragging a response from the developer but practical completion in December.....I'd need to know what their interpretation of practical completion is because the development is more than 11 weeks away from completion, of that there's no doubt.

^^I agree, they don't want the legal pursuit to start until as late as possible. There is enough evidence now to see it is not going to happen before 2012. Furthermore it is not going to be anything like the development that everyone thought they were buying. Just read back at the launch and how everyone was in awe at the grandeure of the entrances and architectural features that made it look like a true 5 star development. Now it just looks like a tall version of a Marina Diamond.

They have not done anything to protect the appearance of the street elevations or maintain the elegance that was portrayed in the renders, so how can you trust them to complete the deal on the 5 star hotel. I think any self respecting Hotel operator would run a mile when they see the quality of the external finish.

Sorry if the investors feel I am downing their personal choice. I have to live in the marina also and will pass this almost everyday. It does nothing to add to the splendour of the location. Typical Select, dullest development award again! No wonder they are struggling to resell the apartments even with massive discounts. 3 beds being advertised at 1.6M, they'll be lucky!

I never noticed this before this morning. While looking at this picture, I was focusing my attention on the sea of louvres and cheap precast panels on BC. I never noticed the siloette of Silverene in the background.

You can clearly see the difference in the quality of the architecture of the 2 developments now. As the centre piece of the marina, i was so hoping for Select to do a good job with this development, but they have let everyone down.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6382/img00008201109251401.jpg

^^I agree, they don't want the legal pursuit to start until as late as possible. There is enough evidence now to see it is not going to happen before 2012. Furthermore it is not going to be anything like the development that everyone thought they were buying. Just read back at the launch and how everyone was in awe at the grandeure of the entrances and architectural features that made it look like a true 5 star development. Now it just looks like a tall version of a Marina Diamond.

They have not done anything to protect the appearance of the street elevations or maintain the elegance that was portrayed in the renders, so how can you trust them to complete the deal on the 5 star hotel. I think any self respecting Hotel operator would run a mile when they see the quality of the external finish.

Sorry if the investors feel I am downing their personal choice. I have to live in the marina also and will pass this almost everyday. It does nothing to add to the splendour of the location. Typical Select, dullest development award again! No wonder they are struggling to resell the apartments even with massive discounts. 3 beds being advertised at 1.6M, they'll be lucky!

In business I have always been straight and done OK --SG's buisness practices may come home to roost for them -although at least they have built -just no where near what anyone expected --a lesson learnt for me --they may learn later I hope

QED

This is another recent development in the marina from the much maligned developer Trident. I would say that this is a minimum of what I would have expected at Bay Central.

Look at the treatment and detailing of the louvre panels, they are so tasteful that you don't even see them as a necessary evil, more of a well done feature. Then note the sloping glass panels protruding from marble clad concrete frame. Further back they have horizontal fins protruding from the glass facia. At podium level they have maintained the sweeping lines of the balustrading. Altogether a very nice piece of street level frontage.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3844/img1382ut.jpg

I have to be honest, I am fucking livid what Select are doing at Bay Central. There is no reason why they could not have produced something better than Trident Grand Residence, after all they charged more than Trident and have now ruined the centre piece of the marina with this shit cheapest of the cheap street level finish!!!!

some great observations TB!!!

http://i54.tinypic.com/2d2ap0j.jpg

Beppe, The entire wording of that letter tells me you are going to have a rough ride with your snagging.

"The parties shall prepare and sign a conclusive list that in the opinion of the Project Consultant warrant remedial action and the seller shall take all reasonable steps to procure that these are assessed and remedied within a reasonable period of time."

"........a descision by the Project Consultant shall be final and binding". Does it state that in the SPAs?

Writen very much in the tone of a legal document. Guess they know which way it is heading. If you have any doubt in which way it is heading you had better read The Point thread.

Yes, True Blue - you have made your claim, backed it up with hard evidence and convinced me and many other people that Select have let us all down.

Originally, looking at the pictures I thought that they had not finnished yet. Could they bolt on some glass or something???? [Sorry TB - I am not an building architect!]

DM Residents and BC Investors should write a joint letter to 'make' the authorities/Emaar master planner take action. Unfortuantely, this is Dubai where 'normal' people are looked upon as being little, annoying ants with zero say in these matters.

It seems this forum is reducing in numbers these days, could it be that all the people that realise how lucky they are to actually see their property being built have left in disgust, whilst all the ones left are perthetic wingers and moaners with nothing better to do, and before you get those nothing better to do fingers ready at the keyboard, remember there are litterally 100s of 1000s of people over the past 5 years that have paid in full for properties around the world only to find they will never be completed or to be taken off them due to corrupt builders, lawyers and government policies, and the lucky ones are left with shells or properties that are already falling to disrepair. be grateful they are still there, be very grateful, listening to some of you makes me sick, you would think it is only happening to you, well read the papers watch the news IT AINT... you took the risk so take the consequences.

FWIW, They could definately take the crap back off and spend a bit more money on something that looks the part. Why did they not follow that latest render, TGR is just so similar to the Bay Central perspective with the sloping perpends, fins and well presented louvres. Honestly, Select/DCE could not have done a cheaper job.

As I have said to a few of the more rational members of the forum, I now realise I would rather have seen something I would be jealous of and that raised the bar in the marina rather than seeing something that has left me deflated.

How can Emaar let a developer present such stunning proposals then build something so far departed and crap??????

It seems this forum is reducing in numbers these days, could it be that all the people that realise how lucky they are to actually see their property being built have left in disgust, whilst all the ones left are perthetic wingers and moaners with nothing better to do, and before you get those nothing better to do fingers ready at the keyboard, remember there are litterally 100s of 1000s of people over the past 5 years that have paid in full for properties around the world only to find they will never be completed or to be taken off them due to corrupt builders, lawyers and government policies, and the lucky ones are left with shells or properties that are already falling to disrepair. be grateful they are still there, be very grateful, listening to some of you makes me sick, you would think it is only happening to you, well read the papers watch the news IT AINT... you took the risk so take the consequences.

And you make me sick trying to excuse this rubbish!

^^Yes, but we should all remember how 'lucky' we are....everyday....:lol: nothing to do with hard work, strategic planning and not being greedy as those attributes had nothing to do with weathering this credit crisis. It was all down to lady luck.

Panos from TB's pics: (Very lucky that I know how to do this!)

http://i56.tinypic.com/24wyfk9.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2aangra.jpg

[QUOTE=FWIW;84391468]Panos from TB's pics: (Very lucky that I know how to do this!)

isn't the bits in red going to be covered by Glass?
Would it look so bad once glass is added/

http://i51.tinypic.com/zlswhl.jpg

No! This is the finished job. Louvres are needed due to the ventilation requirements of the plant rooms and car park. The point is that the treatment of the louvre space and the overall elevations could have been done much better. Look at my TGR example above, shows you what can be acheived with a little effort.

Main point for me is they presented something acceptable to sell the project then built something that has destroyed it!

No! This is the finished job. Louvres are needed due to the ventilation requirements of the plant rooms and car park. The point is that the treatment of the louvre space and the overall elevations could have been done much better. Look at my TGR example above, shows you what can be acheived with a little effort.

Main point for me is they presented something acceptable to sell the project then built something that has destroyed it!

That's terrible looks completely shité :ohno:

If you look at this pic (that TB posted earlier)

http://i42.tinypic.com/919jxz.jpg

You can see chess board effect on the louvres. The whole design is very stylish, the centre tower thing is very unique and when I first heard about the redesign was quite happy with what they showed us. The elegant white lines, the horizontal window lines, etc all look great in the CGI.

I feel like I have been in an episode of hustled....but damn i am lucky!

I also feel very lucky to have bought an apartment with a balcony off the lounge as per my plans only to find out that it's not actually there now.....I've heard about subtle changes off plan but ffs!!:ohno:

I also feel very lucky to have bought an apartment with a balcony off the lounge as per my plans only to find out that it's not actually there now.....I've heard about subtle changes off plan but ffs!!:ohno:

This is just more evidence that they launched the project long before the design was done. Promises of delivery dates and THEY KNEW it was not ready to go to site. Miss selling or deception, either way they are liars and not to be trusted. Holiday Inn Express anyone?

This is just more evidence that they launched the project long before the design was done. Promises of delivery dates and THEY KNEW it was not ready to go to site. Miss selling or deception, either way they are liars and not to be trusted. Holiday Inn Express anyone?

Stelios moving in soon LOL

I finds it hard to believe that they can get away with this BUT in DUBAI anything goes and does -especially it seems in the world of SG -anyone checked sizer of apartment to see if carpark included in the NETT AREA here ? Might be worth checking

SG, SP, DS or whatever they call thmselves, we know, read these forums and have contributed in the past.

Perhaps they should comment on the above issues.

I'll not hold my breath.

I made a few comments on this thread some months ago following several visits to the Land Department on other matters. In my, (and their ) opinion, the authorities will not allow BC to be HANDED OVER until the complete 3 tower development is ready. And I stated that I felt a realistic date for handover was December 2012. I would much prefer that buyers worked to this date and were then happy if actual handover came before. A sensible strategy in my opinion.

Looking at the wording of the Select letter stating "Practical Completion" at December 2011, I wonder if they already know that they will not be allowed to handover the first two residential towers until the hotel tower and podium is ready, and bearing in mind their obligation contractually to give investors their money back if the development is not complete by the end of this year, are preparing a legal argument to not handover and not refund at the end of this year?????

Yes, I doubt that BC will be allowed to be handed over until the hotel tower is externally completed (topped out, cladding fitted and entrance completed) and only internal fitting left to do for it.

I made a few comments on this thread some months ago following several visits to the Land Department on other matters. In my, (and their ) opinion, the authorities will not allow BC to be HANDED OVER until the complete 3 tower development is ready. And I stated that I felt a realistic date for handover was December 2012. I would much prefer that buyers worked to this date and were then happy if actual handover came before. A sensible strategy in my opinion.

Looking at the wording of the Select letter stating "Practical Completion" at December 2011, I wonder if they already know that they will not be allowed to handover the first two residential towers until the hotel tower and podium is ready, and bearing in mind their obligation contractually to give investors their money back if the development is not complete by the end of this year, are preparing a legal argument to not handover and not refund at the end of this year?????

If Select know that they won't be able to handover by the end of the year, then they should be putting together a proposal to discount the unit prices. Buyers here paid too much for their units and will be in negative equity. So to prevent the flood of refund claims, they should be proposing a discount on the sale price. Some resales are already 30% below OP!

When was the original (sold on) completion date?

Regarding discounts, I don't think other developers have done this, Cayan's Infinity for example which is equally late and can be bought below original price?

^^ Original completion was Sept 09.

There has been loads of developers who renegotiated the final price due to exit clauses that were due to mature. It is a sensible way to keep buyers on board.

Ubora towers had an exit clause for late completion as it became obvious that the contractor was not going to finish before the refund entitlement date. The developer offered an alternative of a heavy discount with an unspecified handover date. Some took the refund others took the discounted price option and absorbed the delays and lost rental income.

I don't believe your point about Infinity being available below OP, can you back it up?

I would recommend people google practical completion. There are a number of explanations on there and none that make me feel any better!

I would recommend people google practical completion. There are a number of explanations on there and none that make me feel any better!

http://www.lewissilkin.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Practical%20Completion.pdf

Infinity is a totally different situation. I would suggest investors remain focused on the matter in hand and the likelihood that this development will probably not be HANDED OVER, (be very careful in understanding the wording, residential tower completion is very different to unit handover), until the whole development is ready. This is very unlikely before December 2012 at the very earliest in my opinion.

I strongly suggest that investors start to plan for this eventuality, particularly in terms of activating the refund clauses in their SPA's if the development is not handed over by the end of December 2011.

When was the original (sold on) completion date?

Regarding discounts, I don't think other developers have done this, Cayan's Infinity for example which is equally late and can be bought below original price?

^^ Original completion was Sept 09.

There has been loads of developers who renegotiated the final price due to exit clauses that were due to mature. It is a sensible way to keep buyers on board.

I don't believe your point about Infinity being available below OP, can you back it up?

According to this, completion for Infinity tower was being touted as Dec 2008, so Infinity could be about 4 years late.

Original payment plan:

10% on booking
15% 1st May 2006
15% 1st Nov 2006
15% 1st May 2007
15% 1st Nov 2007
15% 1st May 2008
15% on completion in Dec 2008 or whenever it completes

Lovedubai - Although when buy i was told that if i go above the 20th floor for a 1 bedroom it would cost like 200k AED's more. Which is why i bought on that floor so on 20th floor 1 bed was 981000 AED and on 21st they said it would be around 1.2 Million AED

You can now buy for 890k here:

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-182818.html

and many for less than 1.1m

I have a very good knowledge of contract definitions and the way that a contract and its terms are intended to be used.

Practical completion means you have to be able to use your unit for the purpose in which it was intended. In other words, you can occupy it, cook in it, wash yourself in it and use the bathroom etc. It may mean that the gym, swimming pool or other associated services may not be ready, but they should be nearing completion. A consultant (contract administrator) may grant practical completion if the client needs to gain possession and benefit from the use of the project. Without a certificate of practical completion the contractor is within his rights to deny access to the project as he shall remain soley responsible for the insurance and safety of everyone etc.

The use of the term practical completion by Paul Brady, may be simply to point out that the hotel services, gym, pools etc will not be accessable until they are complete, however you will be given the keys and be allowed to move in. It is important to remember that the construction contract is between DCE and Select, so the use of practical completion is not directly relevant to the investors. I would expect that you will still be within your rights to refuse handover until you are happy that the development is fully complete unless this option is specifically excluded within you SPA.

If Civil Defense or Dubai Municipality withold the occupation certificate and you are not allowed to move in then your apartment is not practically complete!

Infinity is a totally different situation.

Why? The flood does not warrant a 4 year delay.

According to this, completion for Infinity tower was being touted as Dec 2008, so Infinity could be about 4 years late.

Original payment plan:





You can now buy for 890k here:

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-182818.html

and many for less than 1.1m

Steve you have not proved anything, just a load of random numbers and statements which you want me to believe are corelated. Original selling prices were 1000-1200AED/ft approx. Returning investors got 10% discount.

So show me something selling at less than 1000/ft and I might start to take you seriously:bash:

Why? The flood does not warrant a 4 year delay.

Infinity is a totally different situation as there is no refund clause!!!:nuts:

Boy, you are hard work :lol:

The point here is when and how Select are able to hand over the apartments in the 2 residential towers in BC with the third tower and part of the podium still under construction.

The issue also covers refunds due to investors if BC residential towers are not handed over by the end of December 2011.

The fact that Infinity is badly delayed for different reasons is equally unacceptable but has nothing to do with this BC handover/refund issue.

Why? The flood does not warrant a 4 year delay.

Infinity is a totally different situation as there is no refund clause!!!:nuts:


There is effectively no refund clause in BC as they will claim force majeure as they did for the Torch. :cheers:

Steve you have not proved anything, just a load of random numbers and statements which you want me to believe are corelated. Original selling prices were 1000-1200AED/ft approx. Returning investors got 10% discount.

So show me something selling at less than 1000/ft and I might start to take you seriously:bash:

Can you send me the original price list.

There is effectively no refund clause in BC as they will claim force majeure as they did for the Torch. :cheers:

It's written into the contracts so it exists.

They can not claim force majeure retrospectively! There has been no further notices of delays and their reason together with the specific dates in which the FM event became apparent and when it is known to have ended.

I think Select are well aware that their stance on FM is very weak, hence the reason they have never "tried it on" again.

BTW Steve, if anyone had challenged Select on the FM claim at The Torch, they would have won and been paid full compensation per the contract. I guess they are filling up the court of arbitration right now.

I have a very good knowledge of contract definitions and the way that a contract and its terms are intended to be used.

Practical completion means you have to be able to use your unit for the purpose in which it was intended. In other words, you can occupy it, cook in it, wash yourself in it and use the bathroom etc. It may mean that the gym, swimming pool or other associated services may not be ready, but they should be nearing completion. A consultant (contract administrator) may grant practical completion if the client needs to gain possession and benefit from the use of the project. Without a certificate of practical completion the contractor is within his rights to deny access to the project as he shall remain soley responsible for the insurance and safety of everyone etc.

The use of the term practical completion by Paul Brady, may be simply to point out that the hotel services, gym, pools etc will not be accessable until they are complete, however you will be given the keys and be allowed to move in. It is important to remember that the construction contract is between DCE and Select, so the use of practical completion is not directly relevant to the investors. I would expect that you will still be within your rights to refuse handover until you are happy that the development is fully complete unless this option is specifically excluded within you SPA.

If Civil Defense or Dubai Municipality withold the occupation certificate and you are not allowed to move in then your apartment is not practically complete!

Absolutely never going to happen in the 12 weeks we have for construction this year! There is no entrance/lobby/reception and half the floors are shells. No chance of certification this year. We havent even mentioned DEWA......etc

BTW Steve, if anyone had challenged Select on the FM claim at The Torch, they would have won and been paid full compensation per the contract. I guess they are filling up the court of arbitration right now.

FM on Bay Central has been challenged in arbitration court and investors have won! ..no names being mentioned as it's confidential.

FM on Bay Central has been challenged in arbitration court and investors have won! ..no names being mentioned as it's confidential.

No names needed! the information is enough, thank you

:No names needed! the information is enough, thank you

But you'll probably be a year waiting for arbitration hearing now and 100k aed poorer by the time it gets to that stage

Also by then BC will be finished and Arbitration court won't look so favourably on investors at that stage

Its what i would imagine SG are banking on by keeping investors hanging on with false promises of completion

Or am I just being overly cynical :lol::lol:--- I think not !

:

But you'll probably be a year waiting for arbitration hearing now and 100k aed poorer by the time it gets to that stage

Also by then BC will be finished and Arbitration court won't look so favourably on investors at that stage

Its what i would imagine SG are banking on by keeping investors hanging on with false promises of completion

Or am I just being overly cynical :lol::lol:--- I think not !

You're right ManU but it's just good to hear people did win the case and I'm delighted for them. No value in doing it now but I'm sure things will get interesting come December and our "practical completion" It also makes some of the clauses in section 16 of our contracts more interesting....

You're right ManU but it's just good to hear people did win the case and I'm delighted for them. No value in doing it now but I'm sure things will get interesting come December and our "practical completion"

So, at this point if SG can not claim a further FM, what will they could come up with in December , when won't be any "practical completion " at all???

How will they want us to connect the DeWA when we don't have the keys of our apartments yet?? I have had other 4 properties handed over in Dubai last 3 years, and none was like this,,,
A handover, is a real handover, where u get the keys and you can use yoir own property from the very same day? Right ??
I have no clue, what that email just sent to us does it mean at all??
Any thoughts??

Could someone please give me the contact email to select in Dubai regarding changing of my contact info/Thanks

Could someone please give me the contact email to select in Dubai regarding changing of my contact info/Thanks

You need the "customer care" department on ccdxb@select-group.ae but if you get a reply is anybodies guess im afraid:ohno:

You need the "customer care" department on ccdxb@select-group.ae but if you get a reply is anybodies guess im afraid:ohno:

Thanks!

JUST HAVING A PEEK ON HERE SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING FOLLOWING THE RECENT COMMUNICATION FROM SELECT. BASICALLY I THINK OVERALL THE BIGGEST LOSERS IF THEY FAIL TO DELIVER ON QUALITY,STANDARDS ECT, WILL BE SELECT. I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE ENTERING INTO ANY OF THEIR "MOUTHWATERING PROJECTS" IN THE FUTURE ..................SO ITS LAST CHANCE SALOON FOR SELECT..................THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT...........

JUST HAVING A PEEK ON HERE SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING FOLLOWING THE RECENT COMMUNICATION FROM SELECT. BASICALLY I THINK OVERALL THE BIGGEST LOSERS IF THEY FAIL TO DELIVER ON QUALITY,STANDARDS ECT, WILL BE SELECT. I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE ENTERING INTO ANY OF THEIR "MOUTHWATERING PROJECTS" IN THE FUTURE ..................SO ITS LAST CHANCE SALOON FOR SELECT..................THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT...........

Yes heck - I agree with you. When the dust settles those still standing will have long memories! Good luck to all of us!

7/October/2011

Bay Central

http://i52.tinypic.com/2uqhdhh.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/9qa80y.jpg

Not a hope in hell of handing over this year, even with the 10% roof feature!!

Are you doubting the word of our esteemed developer?:nuts:

^^I'll bet my mortgage on it now:)

You need the "customer care" department on ccdxb@select-group.ae but if you get a reply is anybodies guess im afraid:ohno:

I keep wondering why they call it 'care' department as care to Select is a 4 letter word having a very different meaning!!!!:lol:

I keep wondering why they call it 'care' department as care to Select is a 4 letter word having a very different meaning!!!!:lol:

A week in I'm still waiting for a response to my 2 emails to "customer care" asking where my lounge balcony has disappeared to and what is their explanation of practical completion when even a fool can see there's no chance of any type of completion that we would actually be interested in by December.

A week in I'm still waiting for a response to my 2 emails to "customer care" asking where my lounge balcony has disappeared to and what is their explanation of practical completion when even a fool can see there's no chance of any type of completion that we would actually be interested in by December.

door missing from my living room too the balcony.. only access from bedroom

will have to address these before final payment..

door missing from my living room too the balcony.. only access from bedroom

will have to address these before final payment..

Mmmmm I wonder when "practical completion" comes round in December if they ask for final payment......you wouldnt put it past them!

door missing from my living room too the balcony.. only access from bedroom

will have to address these before final payment..

Good luck Beppe. Unless the unit has deviated substantially from the original plan then you will have difficulty getting any recompense. Might be worthwhile trying to check the size of the unit before making the final payment.

hi all,
if you are not already following the botanica thread, it might be of interest. investors there are already invoking the refund clause 16.2.

hi all,
if you are not already following the botanica thread, it might be of interest. investors there are already invoking the refund clause 16.2.

Hi Does your 16.2 clause mention force Majeure?

Good luck Beppe. Unless the unit has deviated substantially from the original plan then you will have difficulty getting any recompense. Might be worthwhile trying to check the size of the unit before making the final payment.

TB we think there is a decree somewhere which Sheik Mo authorised which says even 5% deviation on tne minus side can be compensated in investors favour

Hi Does your 16.2 clause mention force Majeure?

there has been no mention of force majeure in any correspondance whatsoever. it would be seriously late in the day to try that one on. i think the select tactic seems to be:
1. lack of updates
2. fail to respond to emails
3. let time pass
4. rely on apathy
5. dont allow access for snagging until handover day
6. hope investors wont be prepared to bang their heads against a brick wall

there has been no mention of force majeure in any correspondance whatsoever. it would be seriously late in the day to try that one on. i think the select tactic seems to be:
1. lack of updates
2. fail to respond to emails
3. let time pass
4. rely on apathy
5. dont allow access for snagging until handover day
6. hope investors wont be prepared to bang their heads against a brick wall

Well in that case yours is a different ball game to ours! When does your refund clause kick in??

botanica was due to complete by 01/10/10 so the refund clause kicked in 01/10/2011 as its now over 12 months past the deadline.
the delays haven't been a problem for me for personally, my gripe is about the floor area and select, as yet, have been unable/unwilling to dispute my measurements that it is 10% smaller than specified.

there has been no mention of force majeure in any correspondance whatsoever. it would be seriously late in the day to try that one on. i think the select tactic seems to be:
1. lack of updates
2. fail to respond to emails
3. let time pass
4. rely on apathy
5. dont allow access for snagging until handover day
6. hope investors wont be prepared to bang their heads against a brick wall

Not far out there --- and yes you should resolV disputes BEFORE handover (AND BEFORE FINAL PAYMEN ) otherwise you may struggle to get a decision that favours YOU as the owner :cheers:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6054/6230692893_a6547a4e3c_b.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3rjrhLmbUs
The quality should be approx as per this... however lots is yet to be desired....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3rjrhLmbUs
The quality should be approx as per this... however lots is yet to be desired....

I think this is probably one of the luxury villas and not any of the apartment fit outs. I was sent this original dvd many years ago and still have it in all my paperwork

I think this is probably one of the luxury villas and not any of the apartment fit outs. I was sent this original dvd many years ago and still have it in all my paperwork

You are right....but the basic quality should have been similar. Also the porch and podium which made the actual plan look great is no more there????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3rjrhLmbUs
The quality should be approx as per this... however lots is yet to be desired....

You are right, it should be like this everywhere. They even announced it to the world in their press releases, which can be found near the start of this thread. "The biggest portfolio of the most luxurious apartments in the marina" or something like that. So are they any more luxurious than the cheaper Trident or Cayan offerings. Even Emaar projects were a lot cheaper and are far superior in quality.

Perhaps Mr Stott would like to follow up on his reassurances now that the rest of the marina is "substantially complete" and forms a bench mark from which to judge Select's acheivement?

I watched the video and can't believe the difference between the exterior views of the towers in the video and the ones they are building. The features of the central tower roof and the projections down the sides and front of the towers that interupt the smooth glass panels. The towers in the video are stunning, the reality is more disappointing.

It is more evidence of the miss selling tactics of this company and they should be held to account for it IMO.

14/October/2011

Bay Central

http://i52.tinypic.com/9ljta8.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2h80861.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/28qw368.jpg

dont see any progress outside.. hopefully some inside..

thanks for the pictures imre

dont see any progress outside.. hopefully some inside..

thanks for the pictures imre

Welcome, this is also interesting and probably good news for the Bay Central investors, hotel always good close to your building :)

14/October/2011

Marina Hotel (next to Bay Central)

http://i56.tinypic.com/r1lpw9.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2yzmsmh.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/19wjk7.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/6sxdas.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/287niia.jpg

^^ depending how tall this new hotel is will affect views from bc towards the supertalls.

^^ depending how tall this new hotel is will affect views from bc towards the supertalls.

Ok, lets wait True Blue comment :lol:

^^ depending how tall this new hotel is will affect views from bc towards the supertalls.

I think the building will probably be around 20 floors max. I have emailed the construction co and will let you all know what if anything they tell me!

Hi - do you mean the 3rd tower will be shorter than the west and central tower?

thks

Hi - do you mean the 3rd tower will be shorter than the wert and central tower?

thks

No we are talking about the new hotel on the plot next to the bay central hotel!

29 floors, most prob block more of the bc hotel views, than central tower..

Ok, lets wait True Blue comment :lol:

Thanks for waiting ;)

It's always been a building plot, so like The Torch marina view apartments it is just a matter of time before some of the view will taken away.

It is just a static view of Tallest block anyway, as long as you still have an active view of marina activity then you have little to worry about :okay:

Imre will blow up a Tallest Block picture for you to hang on your wall :)

Are you doubting the word of our esteemed developer?:nuts:
To all Bay Central Owners; If you have the possibility of cancelling your contract and getting your money back, DO IT. Just look at all the water leaks in The Point and the same has started at The Torch too (just the tip of the iceberg) It is the same combination of esteemed developer and master builder for your building too!!!:runaway:

so like The Torch marina view apartments it is just a matter of time before some of the view will taken away.

You can not state that as fact True Blue given the current situation, as discussed it COULD also become a permanent residential marina park, or mosque or shopping mall etc. please don't state something as fact unless it has become fact. In any case this comment is in the wrong thread again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3rjrhLmbUs
The quality should be approx as per this... however lots is yet to be desired....
Do you seriously think that the delivered quality will be similar to that shown in the clip??? If you do, I have pity for you as you are in for a shock.:ohno:

You can not state that as fact True Blue given the current situation, as discussed it COULD also become a permanent residential marina park, or mosque or shopping mall etc. please don't state something as fact unless it has become fact. In any case this comment is in the wrong thread again.

Tell your Doctor he needs to increase your prescription, the current doseage isn't working!:nuts:

Would you like me to repost this on The Torch thread?

^^ be my guest but we already discussed that there on Friday. Just very odd that you feel the need to refer to the Torch everywhere.

^^ Just very odd that you feel the need to refer to the Torch everywhere.

The Torch is referred to as it was claimed to be the flagship building of Select, a luxury, highest residential building in the world. A fantastic place to live in with investors congratulating themselves over their investments. In reality, the nightmare for the investors is just starting with water leaks, cracks in walls, lifts not functioning etc. :blahblah:

I am not aware of any cracks in walls or lifts not working in the Torch tower. Are you making this up based on what happened in the Point? I know you have an axe to grind over the Point tower but that is a different building which was rushed and poorly built and maintained. I am happy with the Torch so far, it is a very popular building and the maintenance and management team are proving to be excellent in my opinion to date, dealing with a leak in the gym efficiently. To date, no complaints or issues from my tenant. Many towers have leaks and a few teething problems at the beginning, good maintenance is the key here. Some of Cayan's towers also had many leaks at the start but seem ok now due to good maintenance and management.

I am not aware of any cracks in walls or lifts not working in the Torch tower. Are you making this up based on what happened in the Point? I know you have an axe to grind over the Point tower but that is a different building which was rushed and poorly built and maintained. I am happy with the Torch so far, it is a very popular building and the maintenance and management team are proving to be excellent in my opinion to date, dealing with a leak in the gym efficiently. To date, no complaints or issues from my tenant.

Guys can we please post this torch stuff in the torch thread? Thanks! We also have the select thread for select developer issues!

I quite agree! torchowner please post in the correct thread so that conversations consequently develop in the correct threads.

I am not aware of any cracks in walls or lifts not working in the Torch tower. Are you making this up based on what happened in the Point? I know you have an axe to grind over the Point tower but that is a different building which was rushed and poorly built and maintained. I am happy with the Torch so far, it is a very popular building and the maintenance and management team are proving to be excellent in my opinion to date, dealing with a leak in the gym efficiently. To date, no complaints or issues from my tenant. Many towers have leaks and a few teething problems at the beginning, good maintenance is the key here. Some of Cayan's towers also had many leaks at the start but seem ok now due to good maintenance and management.

In this post on the BAY CENTRAL thread, you manage to not mention Bay Central but specifically refer to The Torch, The Point and make irrelevant reference to Cayan. Yet you want to Lord over everyone telling them what they should and should not post.

Ever heard the saying "holyer than thou"? You need to take a look at yourself before constantly criticising everyone else!

A Gulf News ad by Select advertising a studio for sale shows handover in Q1 2012. i say Q3 2012

--------------------------
DUBAI MARINA, BAY CENTRAL, STUDIO
AED 500,000
Dubai Marina, BAY CENTRAL, Studio from AED 500,000. Handing over Q1 2012. SELECT PROPERTY - Call 04-4462756 | sales@selectproperty.com | www.selectproperty.ae
Location: Bay Central, Dubai Marina, Dubai
Property type: For Sale - Flats
Number of bedrooms: studio
Email: sales@selectproperty.com
Contact: 04-4462756
* Studio
Published 15th October 2011
Source: GN Freehold Print Edition"

http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=10513247&t=properties

..

I am not aware of any cracks in walls or lifts not working in the Torch tower. Are you making this up based on what happened in the Point? I know you have an axe to grind over the Point tower but that is a different building which was rushed and poorly built and maintained. I am happy with the Torch so far, it is a very popular building and the maintenance and management team are proving to be excellent in my opinion to date, dealing with a leak in the gym efficiently. To date, no complaints or issues from my tenant. Many towers have leaks and a few teething problems at the beginning, good maintenance is the key here. Some of Cayan's towers also had many leaks at the start but seem ok now due to good maintenance and management.
So could you please get your Lord & Master Rahail to agree that The Point was Rushed and poorly built!! As far as leaks are concerned, just wait as the leak in the Gym is just the tip of the iceberg. I know several residents who have logged complaints regarding cracks in the walls. Why don't you take a look at the complaints register and WHY do you always have to drag Cayan into the picture!!! Good maintenance and management at The torch under Select - Dream ON!!!

I am not aware of any cracks in walls or lifts not working in the Torch tower. Are you making this up based on what happened in the Point? I know you have an axe to grind over the Point tower but that is a different building which was rushed and poorly built and maintained. I am happy with the Torch so far, it is a very popular building and the maintenance and management team are proving to be excellent in my opinion to date, dealing with a leak in the gym efficiently. To date, no complaints or issues from my tenant. Many towers have leaks and a few teething problems at the beginning, good maintenance is the key here. Some of Cayan's towers also had many leaks at the start but seem ok now due to good maintenance and management.

Steve - Please do us all poor suffering investors a favour and read the latest post by SGrCRAP on The Torch site regarding what the future holds for the tower. It may even open your eyes.

If I were a BC investor, I would WANT TO HEAR from investors in other Select developments on here.....

Keep the comments coming I say.......

Just ignore those who want to hide how criminal Select have been treating their "customers" in ALL Dubai Marina projects.:bash:

Steve - Please do us all poor suffering investors a favour and read the latest post by SGrCRAP on The Torch site regarding what the future holds for the tower. It may even open your eyes.

Pic from desert diver

http://www.ablazewithlight.com/cityscapes_dubai_DSC_4606_sRGB_y.jpg

Nice photo - keep them coming!

Nice photo - keep them coming!

Another one - this time from select Steve!

http://i51.tinypic.com/302uej5.jpg

28/October/2011

Bay Central

http://i44.tinypic.com/dwwi90.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/23h3w8y.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/wvvfxv.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/rcvyqg.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/5ouums.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/24dk2v9.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/vngylg.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/35l6web.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/qrjbqo.jpg

28/October/2011

Bay Central



Thanks Imre - how much longer do you think until I get my keys?

Thanks Imre - how much longer do you think until I get my keys?

6 months minimum i think

Well, as I have said before, in my opinion investors at BC should not have their hopes built up. I would suggest you look at the worst possible, and then be pleasantly surprised if you get keys earlier.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

If you look at Silverene, (which I know is 2 Towers), September 09 was at about the same level as the Hotel Tower is now at BC. So assuming as we think that no keys will be available until the total (3 tower) development is ready, I would think worst case scenario is somewhere between December 2012 and mid 2013.

Anything earlier and I think you guys have had a GREAT result, and believe me I hope you do get a good result.

Thanks Imre - how much longer do you think until I get my keys?

Thanks Imre - how much longer do you think until I get my keys?

These two towers should be done within 6-12 months but still no idea how they will have all permissions without the hotel tower, so 2013 also possible.

Just remember , Marina Quays West was ready and empty more than a year because of the East and North .

We will see.

I agree totally Imre, although I hope for the investors sake that I am wrong. If I were planning my finances and had bought in BC, I would be planning on a Spring 2013 handover with keys.........

When I spoke to the Land Department on another issue, they informed me that BC would not be able to handover until all 3 towers were complete, exactly as you say happened with EMAAR at Marina Quays.......

These two towers should be done within 6-12 months but still no idea how they will have all permissions without the hotel tower, so 2013 also possible.

Just remember , Marina Quays West was ready and empty more than a year because of the East and North .

We will see.

They would never let you in the completed towers with the 3rd one under construction.

You are correct, hence Spring 2013 handover estimate.....

They would never let you in the completed towers with the 3rd one under construction.

It is still speculation that handover of the 2 towers will be delayed until the East tower is finished. Perhaps if they can demonstrate how they intend to keep the public safe then the authorities will be happy to give handover clearance and pick up the keys for their new Merc SLS.....er sorry, where was I.

Take a look at the Sheraton Hotel and what they have had to do while the construction of the Jumeirah Towers takes place. The carpark and entrance has been enclosed in a massive tented structure to protect people and property from the possibilty of coming into contact with flying debris. That does not stop the problem with the massive dust cloud and noise every time they dump debris down the rubbish chutes. I feel sorry for the apartment owners of the seaview side at Dorrabay. They had to put up with the noise of the bridge being built for years now they have Jumeirah Towers dust and noise to contend with.

If BC hands over during the East Tower construction it will be the same problem making apartments facing the tallest block very difficult to rent.

I was indeed speculating on all 3 Towers needing to be complete before full project completion. Hence Spring 2013 handover. This was based clearly on EMAAR's own experience with Marina Quays, and a discussion I had at the Land Department.

I am mearly suggesting that investors plan for the worst and hope for the best. Sensible business and financial planning.

It is still speculation that handover of the 2 towers will be delayed until the East tower is finished. Perhaps if they can demonstrate how they intend to keep the public safe then the authorities will be happy to give handover clearance and pick up the keys for their new Merc SLS.....er sorry, where was I.

Take a look at the Sheraton Hotel and what they have had to do while the construction of the Jumeirah Towers takes place. The carpark and entrance has been enclosed in a massive tented structure to protect people and property from the possibilty of coming into contact with flying debris. That does not stop the problem with the massive dust cloud and noise every time they dump debris down the rubbish chutes. I feel sorry for the apartment owners of the seaview side at Dorrabay. They had to put up with the noise of the bridge being built for years now they have Jumeirah Towers dust and noise to contend with.

If BC hands over during the East Tower construction it will be the same problem making apartments facing the tallest block very difficult to rent.

^^^ the land department wouldn't know about this, only the municipality. i am of the opinion that east and central towers will be handed over when done, irrespective of the hotel tower progress. this was done in JBR. the residential towers were handed over while the hotel towers where still under construction, and not even topped out.

Separate plots is your answer here. the Quays were not separate plots, 3 towers on one plot, while in BC you have two plots, one for the hotel, one for the res towers.

My point was not so much whether or not the Municipality will allow a part completed project to handover or not, as this is a matter on both sides of pure speculation, more that my business advice to investors would be to plan for the worst and hope for the best, rather than plan on speculation of an early handover and be disappointed....

^^^ the land department wouldn't know about this, only the municipality. i am of the opinion that east and central towers will be handed over when done, irrespective of the hotel tower progress. this was done in JBR. the residential towers were handed over while the hotel towers where still under construction, and not even topped out.

Separate plots is your answer here. the Quays were not separate plots, 3 towers on one plot, while in BC you have two plots, one for the hotel, one for the res towers.

They would never let you in the completed towers with the 3rd one under construction.

But dont forget, if you have money you can do anything :)

Lets wait and see :cheers:

My point was not so much whether or not the Municipality will allow a part completed project to handover or not, as this is a matter on both sides of pure speculation, more that my business advice to investors would be to plan for the worst and hope for the best, rather than plan on speculation of an early handover and be disappointed....



Yes I agree with johnny. Better a little caution than a great regret.

to add tom the debate. i have even received an e mail from Select stating as handover is around December 2011 so would i like to buy their Furniture Pack. If so to ring them.
Ha Ha Ha

^^ I suggest you get them to agree to give you the furniture pack free if handover does not take place by 1st April 2012. Their answer will tell you how certain they are of the December 2011 handover ;)

Or you can simply respond to them stating you will be entitled to your refund on 1st January so the furniture pack is of little use to you :lol:

The furniture pack contract actually has a FM clause......where have we heard that before

Nothing would surprise me with Select - what a bunch of absolute conmen!

The furniture pack contract actually has a FM clause......where have we heard that before

Here's a quote I like especially when dealing with select property group:

If I had no sense of humor, I would long ago have committed suicide. -Gandhi

Here's a quote I like especially when dealing with select property group:
som cant send a loose rope to Select. They seem to have a sense of Humour

My point was not so much whether or not the Municipality will allow a part completed project to handover or not, as this is a matter on both sides of pure speculation, more that my business advice to investors would be to plan for the worst and hope for the best, rather than plan on speculation of an early handover and be disappointed....

When you look at this project from the Marina Mall, the "Hotel Tower" is not really connected to the rest of the project. East and Central tower have their own podium, the podium of the west tower is much lower, actually the first floors of the west tower have a view against the wall of the very high podium of the East and central tower. If you didn't know, that this was originally one project, you wouldn't know by looking at it today.

Oh and another thing: the other day the freehold newspaper in Gulf News had a complete front page advertisement by Select, where they promoted units in Bay Central direct from the developer with a "new" payment plan. Looks to me like Select has still quite a stock of flats to sell in there and they try to off load them.

Oh and another thing: the other day the freehold newspaper in Gulf News had a complete front page advertisement by Select, where they promoted units in Bay Central direct from the developer with a "new" payment plan. Looks to me like Select has still quite a stock of flats to sell in there and they try to off load them.

the Renaissance hotel is taking up less than half of the East tower so there are lots of apartments to sell in this tower.

my view is that handover of the lower floors of the residential towers will start sometime in the first few months of 2012 and it will be towards the end of 2012 before the two towers are complete and fully handed over.

for those who want to rent finding tenants will be no problem

the external look and location of the towers will be amongst best in the marina. The quality of internal finishing be similar to the Torch.

from the owners perspective, the developer has mismanaged their task badly in terms delivery to timescale and very, very badly in terms of communication with owners

The problem with this post is that investors who are really worrying about their finances will be possibly given false hope and will in their own mind be relying on rental income as Slowhand suggests, (in my opinion incorrectly) from early 2012.

This is NOT a sensible nor responsible post for 3 reasons:

1. This will NOT be an attractive rental location until the whole 3 tower development is complete and the tram works outside the front door are over.

2. It is VERY unlikely that any of this project will be handed over until all 3 towers are complete. As I have said before, in my opinion, Spring 2013.

3. It is VERY unlikely having read many investors posts here that the quality inside BC will be anywhere near as good as Torch. Be prepared for a VERY bad fit out on this development

So, once again, please resist irresponsible posts based on opinion and not fact giving investors false hope.

On the upside, when all 3 towers are complete and the tram at the front is finished:

1. You will have a development in a very good location

2. If you are prepared to upgrade the internal fit out; maybe replacing kitchen and bathrooms, you will have a very nice apartment

3. These should generate a reasonable rental income when all this is done and dusted.

Remember.... Plan for the worst, and hope for the best.... :bash:



the Renaissance hotel is taking up less than half of the East tower so there are lots of apartments to sell in this tower.

my view is that handover of the lower floors of the residential towers will start sometime in the first few months of 2012 and it will be towards the end of 2012 before the two towers are complete and fully handed over.

for those who want to rent finding tenants will be no problem

the external look and location of the towers will be amongst best in the marina. The quality of internal finishing be similar to the Torch.

from the owners perspective, the developer has mismanaged their task badly in terms delivery to timescale and very, very badly in terms of communication with owners

^^Every time Slowhand posts a handover prediction it is 3 months on from the last one. Don't know why he bothers as it is clear he is blind guessing.

To state that the tower could be handed over in stages throughout the year is just ludicrous and not very helpful to people trying to plan their future.

3. It is VERY unlikely having read many investors posts here that the quality inside BC will be anywhere near as good as Torch. Be prepared for a VERY bad fit out on this development

:

why would this be very bad compared to the torch?? :nuts:

the Renaissance hotel is taking up less than half of the East tower so there are lots of apartments to sell in this tower.

Could be difficult for Select given their current reputation

my view is that handover of the lower floors of the residential towers will start sometime in the first few months of 2012 and it will be towards the end of 2012 before the two towers are complete and fully handed over.

Just complete nonsense, they will not start handovers while they are still constructing the same buildings. As an adult you should know better than post this drivel.

for those who want to rent finding tenants will be no problem

I think there could be problems finding tenants as the units are quite small, there is going to be a lot of disruption in the roads outside until 2014, and we don't really know what the market will be in a year from now. Just speculation which could be guaged beside your other sentiments.

the external look and location of the towers will be amongst best in the marina. The quality of internal finishing be similar to the Torch.

Every owner will say that about their personal choice of building. People who have not bought in BC will not agree with you. I personally think the towers are a sham compared to the renders and sales video.

from the owners perspective, the developer has mismanaged their task badly in terms delivery to timescale and very, very badly in terms of communication with owners

Stating the obvious! Everyone now knows they have been shafted by Select and their hollow promises(lies)

My comments in Royal Blue :)

Just thought I would bring up these pictures from early June this year;

http://i54.tinypic.com/2d0z3w4.jpghttp://i56.tinypic.com/2zoznyx.jpg

It demonstrates the point I made a few times that cladding coverage is relatively fast to acheive, its when it comes down to the tricky details like balconies and window recesses that things slow right down. The picture today, 5 months later, is not much different except that more of the detailing is now done.

If you take into consideration that the original program for the cladding/curtain walling was 12 months and we are now 22 months down the line on this one activity. Where does the excuses come from? What has affected progress on this one activity other than not enough resources? Can't be a cash flow issue like Infinity or Silverene, Select were paid up to 90% ages ago. Infact the cash flow must have been positive as the buildings were no where near 90% complete back then, nor are they now.

today.. lets look at the differences!!

http://i44.tinypic.com/wvvfxv.jpg

Just thought I would bring up these pictures from early June this year;


If you take into consideration that the original program for the cladding/curtain walling was 12 months and we are now 22 months down the line on this one activity. Where does the excuses come from? What has affected progress on this one activity other than not enough resources? Can't be a cash flow issue like Infinity or Silverene, Select were paid up to 90% ages ago. Infact the cash flow must have been positive as the buildings were no where near 90% complete back then, nor are they now.

When it concerns all matters relating to Select, magic words are 'All delays caused by total incompetence and greed'. :mad2:

When it concerns all matters relating to Select, magic words are 'All delays caused by total incompetence and greed'. :mad2:

What use is the above post in helping BC owners do anything about our complaints.

SSC is becomong the place for misfits, those who are unemployed and unemployable, trolls and the like to be very negative about a development in which they have not bought

yes we have many thing to complain about but
1. we will get our apartments
2. BC will look great and is in a great location
3. it will rent well but you won't get rich - ask any knowledgeable person (I have been renting an apartment for 4 years in a similar location to BC)
4. the developer as we all know lacks credibility and his track record is well known by everyone. TB has been recycling the same old stuff for years. It looks like he now has disciples. His pride and joy, Dorabay, is not without problems but it is not a disaster. Neither is BC

the detailed info and up to date photos we get on our BC forum about finishing, features etc shows the finished product will be workable (like Torch and JBR) but not luxury. There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency.

Clearly there is doubt about timing of the handover. Regarding the potential delay because the hotel is not finished, there is evidence for both positions ie no effect on handover or have to wait until hotel is built. TB, who claims to be a construction expert, from his posts, is unsure which way it is will go. I was just expressing my opinion. I feel like we are in the situation before the hotel tower was started and there were numerous people who were adamant that it would never be built. They were the type of people who are being very negative now. They think they know and their judgement is good but they don't and it isn't. What was the outcome, the hotel tower is being built.

If you take into consideration that the original program for the cladding/curtain walling was 12 months and we are now 22 months down the line on this one activity. Where does the excuses come from? What has affected progress on this one activity other than not enough resources? Can't be a cash flow issue like Infinity or Silverene, Select were paid up to 90% ages ago. Infact the cash flow must have been positive as the buildings were no where near 90% complete back then, nor are they now.

Remember not all units are 90% paid up. A good proportion will be on the lengthy payment plan being 30% down and the rest spread over 15 years. Obviously there is not enough cashflow upfront from the LPP to finance all of the the build costs, so the shortfall has to be met by external finance. Rahal Aslam confirmed a few years ago that it was private consortium finance (whatever that is) and not bank borrowing. The providers of such finance will not be in a rush to keep writing the cheques out as it will be costing them money hence there is no incentive to progress the build at the required rate. In fact the slower the better as more reliance can be made on the quarterly LPP payments comming in. Any compensation entitlement will as we know be refused and FM claimed so no issue for the developer in having to meet any refunds for delays.

This unfortunately as far as investors are concerned is the massive fault line for them in the Select business model. But it's a great advantage built into the model for the developer. And why BC like TT will be delivered three years late, it's all built in at the beginning and why we all get shafted !!

Remember not all units are 90% paid up. A good proportion will be on the lengthy payment plan being 30% down and the rest spread over 15 years. Obviously there is not enough cashflow upfront from the LPP to finance all of the the build costs, so the shortfall has to be met by external finance. Rahal Aslam confirmed a few years ago that it was private consortium finance (whatever that is) and not bank borrowing. The providers of such finance will not be in a rush to keep writing the cheques out as it will be costing them money hence there is no incentive to progress the build at the required rate. In fact the slower the better as more reliance can be made on the quarterly LPP payments comming in. Any compensation entitlement will as we know be refused and FM claimed so no issue for the developer in having to meet any refunds for delays.

This unfortunately as far as investors are concerned is the massive fault line for them in the Select business model. But it's a great advantage built into the model for the developer. And why BC like TT will be delivered three years late, it's all built in at the beginning and why we all get shafted !!

An excellent post and almost certainly bang on the money if you pardon the pun!

What use is the above post in helping BC owners do anything about our complaints.

SSC is becomong the place for misfits, those who are unemployed and unemployable, trolls and the like to be very negative about a development in which they have not bought

yes we have many thing to complain about but
1. we will get our apartments
2. BC will look great and is in a great location
3. it will rent well but you won't get rich - ask any knowledgeable person (I have been renting an apartment for 4 years in a similar location to BC)
4. the developer as we all know lacks credibility and his track record is well known by everyone. TB has been recycling the same old stuff for years. It looks like he now has disciples. His pride and joy, Dorabay, is not without problems but it is not a disaster. Neither is BC

the detailed info and up to date photos we get on our BC forum about finishing, features etc shows the finished product will be workable (like Torch and JBR) but not luxury. There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency.

Clearly there is doubt about timing of the handover. Regarding the potential delay because the hotel is not finished, there is evidence for both positions ie no effect on handover or have to wait until hotel is built. TB, who claims to be a construction expert, from his posts, is unsure which way it is will go. I was just expressing my opinion. I feel like we are in the situation before the hotel tower was started and there were numerous people who were adamant that it would never be built. They were the type of people who are being very negative now. They think they know and their judgement is good but they don't and it isn't. What was the outcome, the hotel tower is being built.

Yes, there were many on here who said there would be no hotel that's for sure. I guess we should wait until it's complete but the hotel chain are registered with the land department so I'm confident it wont stop now! its actually going great guns at the moment, its just the small matter of it being 4 years late when complete!

Remember not all units are 90% paid up. A good proportion will be on the lengthy payment plan being 30% down and the rest spread over 15 years. Obviously there is not enough cashflow upfront from the LPP to finance all of the the build costs, so the shortfall has to be met by external finance. Rahal Aslam confirmed a few years ago that it was private consortium finance (whatever that is) and not bank borrowing. The providers of such finance will not be in a rush to keep writing the cheques out as it will be costing them money hence there is no incentive to progress the build at the required rate. In fact the slower the better as more reliance can be made on the quarterly LPP payments comming in. Any compensation entitlement will as we know be refused and FM claimed so no issue for the developer in having to meet any refunds for delays.

This unfortunately as far as investors are concerned is the massive fault line for them in the Select business model. But it's a great advantage built into the model for the developer. And why BC like TT will be delivered three years late, it's all built in at the beginning and why we all get shafted !!

^^:applause:

I made a similar post on The Torch thread claiming that the project was deliberately slowed to fit within the cash profile. Allowing them to finish the project without the need for external finance. However, the addendums make me think someone is putting money in somewhere and wants complete security over the LPP properties until they get their money back out.

I am impressed Morris, no compensation for delays despite the SPA. I said it for years. Maybe I can retire now :lol:

What use is the above post in helping BC owners do anything about our complaints.

SSC is becomong the place for misfits, those who are unemployed and unemployable, trolls and the like to be very negative about a development in which they have not bought

yes we have many thing to complain about but
1. we will get our apartments
2. BC will look great and is in a great location
3. it will rent well but you won't get rich - ask any knowledgeable person (I have been renting an apartment for 4 years in a similar location to BC)
4. the developer as we all know lacks credibility and his track record is well known by everyone. TB has been recycling the same old stuff for years. It looks like he now has disciples. His pride and joy, Dorabay, is not without problems but it is not a disaster. Neither is BC

the detailed info and up to date photos we get on our BC forum about finishing, features etc shows the finished product will be workable (like Torch and JBR) but not luxury. There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency.

Clearly there is doubt about timing of the handover. Regarding the potential delay because the hotel is not finished, there is evidence for both positions ie no effect on handover or have to wait until hotel is built. TB, who claims to be a construction expert, from his posts, is unsure which way it is will go. I was just expressing my opinion. I feel like we are in the situation before the hotel tower was started and there were numerous people who were adamant that it would never be built. They were the type of people who are being very negative now. They think they know and their judgement is good but they don't and it isn't. What was the outcome, the hotel tower is being built.

Where do you begin with a post like this. Plenty of insults from the man who thought he knew it all.

All you have ever done from day one was post nonsense and lies. So what kind of expert are you trying to be, because you have failed with everything you predicted so far?

The hotel tower is under construction, I personally still think it is too early to say if it will become a 5 star hotel and serviced apartments or whether it will be finished at all. Remember that BC looks like it is going to be their last project in the marina as Select Dubai (West Avenue I believe is a private joint venture with Select UK). Select will have their fair share of problems mounting higher every day. Can they survive until 2013, long enough to finish the East tower? Will an Hotel operator want to deal with them when deadlines are constantly missed? All questions that will be answered in the future.

What use is the above post in helping BC owners do anything about our complaints.

SSC is becomong the place for misfits, those who are unemployed and unemployable, trolls and the like to be very negative about a development in which they have not bought

yes we have many thing to complain about but
1. we will get our apartments
2. BC will look great and is in a great location
3. it will rent well but you won't get rich - ask any knowledgeable person (I have been renting an apartment for 4 years in a similar location to BC)
4. the developer as we all know lacks credibility and his track record is well known by everyone. TB has been recycling the same old stuff for years. It looks like he now has disciples. His pride and joy, Dorabay, is not without problems but it is not a disaster. Neither is BC

the detailed info and up to date photos we get on our BC forum about finishing, features etc shows the finished product will be workable (like Torch and JBR) but not luxury. There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency.

Clearly there is doubt about timing of the handover. Regarding the potential delay because the hotel is not finished, there is evidence for both positions ie no effect on handover or have to wait until hotel is built. TB, who claims to be a construction expert, from his posts, is unsure which way it is will go. I was just expressing my opinion. I feel like we are in the situation before the hotel tower was started and there were numerous people who were adamant that it would never be built. They were the type of people who are being very negative now. They think they know and their judgement is good but they don't and it isn't. What was the outcome, the hotel tower is being built.

Just to take you up specifically on a few of your points raised;

What are the problems you refer to with Dorrabay? I own an apartment there and am not aware of any issues. I have had to replace 3 water cylinders in 3 years and a few light bulbs total cost 2000AED ish. Rental income is 120k per year, average is 105-115k for a 2 bed. Do you think BC at 1300AED/ft will acheive those rentals due to its superior location(in your opinion)? Dorrabay cost me 675AED/ft and has better spec than BC.

There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency. Select must be shitting themselves:ohno: If all you are doing is expressing your opinion, then Select are laughing at you! I would be livid if i owned in this development. The fact that I own in the marina is enough for me to be livid about the fact that instead of seeing a centrepiece design, as portrayed on their expensive advertising campaines, we are going to be given something that looks like a couple of Marina Diamonds stacked on top of each other. Total misselling and miss representation of the facts. Central tower should be a centrepiece, now look at the roof feature, it isn't even a feature its just a f--king roof. At least Cayan stuck by their designs and completed masterpieces of architecture, unlike Select that just printed them in glossy sales brochures and built plain, ordinary, dull, unremarkable, unlit, featureless, poorly built rubbish!!!!!!!!!

Kettle on, cup of tea and chill...........>(

I will tell you what is wrong with posts like this. It's idiots like this giving investors false hope that force the sensible knowledgeable people on SSC to react. If Slowhand seriously thinks handover will commence early in 2012, then unfortunately he is a complete fool.

Keys in Spring 2013 at the earliest in my opinion

Originally Posted by slowhand99 View Post
the Renaissance hotel is taking up less than half of the East tower so there are lots of apartments to sell in this tower.

my view is that handover of the lower floors of the residential towers will start sometime in the first few months of 2012 and it will be towards the end of 2012 before the two towers are complete and fully handed over.

I will tell you what is wrong with posts like this. It's idiots like this giving investors false hope that force the sensible knowledgeable people on SSC to react. If Slowhand seriously thinks handover will commence early in 2012, then unfortunately he is a complete fool.

Keys in Spring 2013 at the earliest in my opinion

Originally Posted by slowhand99 View Post
the Renaissance hotel is taking up less than half of the East tower so there are lots of apartments to sell in this tower.

my view is that handover of the lower floors of the residential towers will start sometime in the first few months of 2012 and it will be towards the end of 2012 before the two towers are complete and fully handed over.

Johnny, we are also told from our developer that this is the case so its not an unfair assumption to make.....How true and accurate it is is of course another matter!

But surely anyone who has read any of the Select threads will know that if this developer announces anything, it is usually about as far from the truth as one can imagine and with some sort of hidden agenda.

My point as I keep saying is NOT to falsely build up investors hopes.... Nothing more.

I mean, just LOOK at the development. Anyone with a brain can see that this will not begin handover early in 2012!!! :bash:

Johnny, we are also told from our developer that this is the case so its not an unfair assumption to make.....How true and accurate it is is of course another matter!

But surely anyone who has read any of the Select threads will know that if this developer announces anything, it is usually about as far from the truth as one can imagine and with some sort of hidden agenda.

My point as I keep saying is NOT to falsely build up investors hopes.... Nothing more.

I mean, just LOOK at the development. Anyone with a brain can see that this will not begin handover early in 2012!!! :bash:

I don't disagree with you personally but lets see what December brings which is when we will receive our next letter from the developer

^^Don't be surprised if you don't receive it until the 31st December :)

What use is the above post in helping BC owners do anything about our complaints.
the detailed info and up to date photos we get on our BC forum about finishing, features etc shows the finished product will be workable (like Torch and JBR) but not luxury. There are many people in the BC forum working behind the scenes and expressing their opinions and addressing some of the issues we face so no complacency.

.

You will find out the significance of incompetence and greed soon after receiving the keys to your apartment. As far as the finished product being similar to The Torch, let me wish you the best of luck. The Torch bathrooms are 100% similar to The Point, all tiles used in all rooms are 100% similar to The Point, all doors and wardrobes are 100% similar to The Point. The only difference is the cheap quality ceramic hob and coving used to hide the bad and uneven joints between the walls and ceilings. Are you going to be happy with that? :ohno:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6059/6310072466_5590f1e8bc_o.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6042/6304295036_6cd0441592_b.jpg

Stunning pictures!!!!

More pictures of internal and external at
http://baycentraldubai.lefora.com/

^^Not a good sign when they have to be kept secret from the rest of the world!:lol:

Crane is coming down from the east tower.

Crane is coming down from the east tower.

Hi - i am not technically gifted - what does this mean?

thks

More pictures of internal and external at
http://baycentraldubai.lefora.com/

So interiors still not the 5 Star Grosvenor House quality that I was promised by a long way -- nearer to Torch quality i'd say at INFINITY and higher price and gonna be 3 or 4 years late --Will handover be mid 2012 or later ?

Crane is coming down from the east tower.

Do you mean West tower Imre? Or are you telling us the Hotel tower is slowing down?

http://www.youtube.com/v/ohaUJ0uHnHo?version=3&amp

Just by interest, from what we're hearing, or asuming the two first towers will most likely not be handed over until the third tower (hotel) is finished.

How do we exactly define the third tower being finished ?

- completion of exterior cladding is enough ?

- interior of third building must be complete also ?

- or a total completion of the building meaning the hotel is up, and running ?

The reason I ask is because there are totally different time scales to what is complete enough for the investors in the first two buildings to get they're keys.

So interiors still not the 5 Star Grosvenor House quality that I was promised by a long way -- nearer to Torch quality i'd say at INFINITY and higher price and gonna be 3 or 4 years late --Will handover be mid 2012 or later ?

MANUTD, you have been cheated, once again, by Select UK/Dubai.
As far as the finished product being similar to The Torch, I sincerely hope not as The Torch bathrooms are 100% similar to The Point, all tiles used in all rooms are 100% similar to The Point, all doors and wardrobes are 100% similar to The Point and most important of all, there is no lagging of the air-con pipes the main reason of most problems at The Point.
The only difference is the cheap quality ceramic hob and coving used to hide the bad and uneven joints between the walls and ceilings. Are you going to be happy with that? I don't think so!:ohno:

Hi all after what date are we entitled to our money back if they have not completed our units?

Hi all after what date are we entitled to our money back if they have not completed our units?
The 12th of never.

Hi all after what date are we entitled to our money back if they have not completed our units?

Depends on your contract --but it will take around 12 months to get to Arbitration stage i'm told and may cost round 10% (roughly) of what you have paid to get that far :cheers:

Crane is coming down from the east tower.

Do you mean West tower Imre? Or are you telling us the Hotel tower is slowing down?

West tower crane coming down.. all clear of cranes on central and west plot.. hotel tower has different types of cranes two smaller ones.. maybe allowable for separate handover? :)

Do you mean West tower Imre? Or are you telling us the Hotel tower is slowing down?

Yes, I meant the west:)

Hotel tower still long way..

Completion of a project is defined as when the Municipality issue the project completion certificate, and in turn, the developer issues final invoices to investors followed by their own completion certificate upon receipt of final payment, allowing owners to connect DEWA and receive their keys.

NOT BEFORE.

It is the opinion of several "experts" on here, and as we saw with EMAAR's own development at Marina Quays, that the Municipality will not issue a project completion certificate until the complete project is finished; i.e., all 3 Towers.

Until this is issued the process with finishes with buyers receiving their keys cannot start.

Just by interest, from what we're hearing, or asuming the two first towers will most likely not be handed over until the third tower (hotel) is finished.

How do we exactly define the third tower being finished ?

- completion of exterior cladding is enough ?

- interior of third building must be complete also ?

- or a total completion of the building meaning the hotel is up, and running ?

The reason I ask is because there are totally different time scales to what is complete enough for the investors in the first two buildings to get they're keys.

Marina quays had a shared podium, all had too be complete before handover. this has a separate podium.. Only time will tell..

Had a long and detailed chat with SP in UK today. They say the two residential towers are still projected for completion at the end of this year with snagging to take place Jan to March 2012 followed by formal handover. They have confirmed the podium is separate to the hotel tower which will take another year to complete. They say handover will take place separately and this has been agreed with the authorities. I suppose time will tell. They also wanted to sell me a furniture pack!

Had a long and detailed chat with SP in UK today. They say the two residential towers are still projected for completion at the end of this year with snagging to take place Jan to March 2012 followed by formal handover. They have confirmed the podium is separate to the hotel tower which will take another year to complete. They say handover will take place separately and this has been agreed with the authorities. I suppose time will tell. They also wanted to sell me a furniture pack!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts: Tell them to put it in writing to you in a letter that can be used legally and see how far you get.........There will be no completion this year and if they cant see that from the photographs or they believe what Dubai is telling them then they deserve all that will be coming their way!:ohno:

You are joking right????

I have just been down to the site to take a close look, and although I am not an expert..... Snagging starting in January 2012???? :bash:

Maybe January 2013.

I'm sure it does not take me to tell you not to believe a word these guys say.

Had a long and detailed chat with SP in UK today. They say the two residential towers are still projected for completion at the end of this year with snagging to take place Jan to March 2012 followed by formal handover. They have confirmed the podium is separate to the hotel tower which will take another year to complete. They say handover will take place separately and this has been agreed with the authorities. I suppose time will tell. They also wanted to sell me a furniture pack!

^^It shows that they are making a case now to resist the refunds by stating the project will be complete before the end of the year, however handovers will not start until April 2012 earliest. All these lies just make you wanna:puke:

All they are doing is trying to frustrate the legal process. If you intend to go legal to get your refund, get started straight away.

March/April 2012 is a good estimate.. not end of this year

Normaly it takes around 6 months after the final tower crane has gone. There is no real sense of urgency on the site so it's becoming likely that it could be August/ Sept 2012 before the two towers are 100% ready for handover.

Look at how long before The Torch was handed over that they did the snagging. There has been no snagging/orientation invitations sent out for BC which has about the same number of units as Torch. Botanica is a much smaller scale project with snagging/orientation done months ago, handover expected Jan 2012.

It's all relative.

didnt imre say the last tower crane on west is coming down now?

didnt imre say the last tower crane on west is coming down now?

^^Yes, but word on the ground is only about 60% of the apartments are complete.

didnt imre say the last tower crane on west is coming down now?

Had a look on Botanica thread, the crane came down there in August and handover has not been announced yet. Expecting it to be Jan/Feb 2012.

On that basis and considering DCE are less well organised and this is a bigger project. I can't see this being handed over before Aug/Sept 2012 assuming the 2 towers can go without the East tower.

My money is still on January 2013 at THE EARLIEST. If you get your apartments any earlier, in my opinion you will have done VERY WELL.

Let's make a note of these post numbers and come back here mid next year and see??

Good luck.

Had a look on Botanica thread, the crane came down there in August and handover has not been announced yet. Expecting it to be Jan/Feb 2012.

On that basis and considering DCE are less well organised and this is a bigger project. I can't see this being handed over before Aug/Sept 2012 assuming the 2 towers can go without the East tower.

Today:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4236/59553600.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/59553600.jpg/)

I have been thinking about this handover with or without the East tower argument. There are plenty of towers in the tallest block where the podiums are actually butting up to each other just like here. So on that basis, if the podiums are not linked, just contiguous, then handover should be possible while the East Tower is still under construction. East tower has it's own construction permit, we know that from the delays in starting it.

To say that West and Central towers will not be handed over is like saying Infinity can not be handed over until Damac OH2 is finished.

Just my tuppence worth.

^^ Good point, you might be right there TB.

I have been thinking about this handover with or without the East tower argument. There are plenty of towers in the tallest block where the podiums are actually butting up to each other just like here. So on that basis, if the podiums are not linked, just contiguous, then handover should be possible while the East Tower is still under construction. East tower has it's own construction permit, we know that from the delays in starting it.

To say that West and Central towers will not be handed over is like saying Infinity can not be handed over until Damac OH2 is finished.

Just my tuppence worth.

Even if handover does take place for West and Central towers, residents will be living in a ongoing East tower building site.:ohno:

Infinity will suffer a lot more due to the Damac tower.

When is the projected top out of the East hotel tower now?

So will the Torch if they ever start building on that gap plot inbetween Marina Heights.

Dorrabay is suffering with Jumeirah Towers construction, the dust and noise is really bad sometimes and yet it is accross the road.

Even if handover does take place for West and Central towers, residents will be living in a ongoing East tower building site.:ohno:

After waiting nearly 5 years I can live with that!

So will the Torch if they ever start building on that gap plot inbetween Marina Heights.

Nothing will be built there.