That is definitely the reason why work started late. SP said that they were delayed starting for 6 months as they had to provide certain assurances to Emaar regarding revised procedures following the Infinity problem. Other developers have stated this as well so it's not SP bullshit......................not sure how this helps my "waiting for DCE to start construction " theory though. :lol:

QUOTE=FWIW;21782731]Hello JoeCoolSA - Welcome!

Are you an investor in Bay Central or just passing by?[/QUOTE]

BC-West...marina facing...and what about you...?
I have just discovered this thread...it is very useful...
Too be honest...after a good reading...delays in construction are worrying me...SP representative told me that everything is proceeding as scheduled...:shocked:
My overall feeling with SP is still good (always very kind and professional), at this stage I'm also prepared to face a reasonable delay (I think is quite common in Dubai) but at this pace will be a long wait!
Hovewer, Escrow account in place in Dubai reassure me...no construction progress - no money for DS...and I'm still very happy about the location that I've chosen!
Maybe we will be neighbours...when will happen...:cheers1:

The ministry of miss information, or just excuses.

BC is no where near as deep as Infinity so try some other "Cayan help us" excuse.

I know a better excuse, Select are taking their time to allow them to source nice tiles for the bathrooms because the ones chosen by Cayan for The Jewels were crap! :okay:

glover... and everyoe else...

it's been more than 01 year since they started ground work.... still no real evidence that they will be above ground level soon.... updates on every other thread tell you something new each time..... but unfortunately, all of our bay central updates look more or less the same....

why are they sooooooooooooooo slow? with this speed.... i don't know how long will they take to complete and hand over the whole development...




....

Hi Doctor. You are correct it has been more than a year since they began. If they bring all 3 up together this will not reach the street by this time next year. Flick through The Point thread and see what you get for a year at this stage of the build and there we are talking about a single 27 floor tower with very small podium.

:nuts:hi everyone
i have just been informed that SP are launching another project.i think it is called the avenue. site is small area behind Silverene towrds sheikh zayeed road. Selling price is starting at 2500/sq feet. I thought that was a bit high but SP always dangle the LTPP which some people find attractive.
would be nice to hear everyone elses views on this.

:nuts:hi everyone
i have just been informed that SP are launching another project.i think it is called the avenue. site is small area behind Silverene towrds sheikh zayeed road. Selling price is starting at 2500/sq feet. I thought that was a bit high but SP always dangle the LTPP which some people find attractive.
would be nice to hear everyone elses views on this.

I mention that weeks ago when “high mighty” removed my post. It’s going to be 30 floors unlike what’s going in front of Torch.
Price is about right for this area. Considering they will have views of my Silverene apartment and almost next door to Mall. :)

I mention that weeks ago when “high mighty” removed my post. It’s going to be 30 floors unlike what’s going in front of Torch.
Price is about right for this area. Considering they will have views of my Silverene apartment and almost next door to Mall. :)
do you think prices of already built properties around that area is going to be about 2500/sq ft. i am assuming this one is also going to be near the metro:nuts:

QUOTE=FWIW;21782731]Hello JoeCoolSA - Welcome!

Are you an investor in Bay Central or just passing by?

BC-West...marina facing...and what about you...?
I have just discovered this thread...it is very useful...
Too be honest...after a good reading...delays in construction are worrying me...SP representative told me that everything is proceeding as scheduled...:shocked:
My overall feeling with SP is still good (always very kind and professional), at this stage I'm also prepared to face a reasonable delay (I think is quite common in Dubai) but at this pace will be a long wait!
Hovewer, Escrow account in place in Dubai reassure me...no construction progress - no money for DS...and I'm still very happy about the location that I've chosen!
Maybe we will be neighbours...when will happen...:cheers1:

I'm in BC-Central Tower - sea view (or al fatan view!)

You should factor in a delay of at least 1 year before you get the keys - that way you can be pleasantly surprised if they keep their promises.

Hopefully, we can all meet up and have some beers when it's all done!:cheers:

Hello...i am back now with new user name as i forgot the old user name passward and email i have used for it...:ohno:
but anyway finaly..nice to join this forum...i think i will try my best to keep Bay central thread up running almost every day....
its nice to be here as one day we all gonna be neighbours....as i will be very cool neighbour of some of you guys...
lets hope it happens very soon...

initialy i was worring about reputation of SP...but now they have bought new plots in Marina, World and at Waterfront, and the work at The Point and Torch is going in good pace,i am looking forward that SP will do better with Bay Central as well...:banana:

Glover..... Thank you very much for the photos.....

regarding last photo---guys what do you think when they gonna pour???? as i have no idea about construction process....:nuts:

hiya.. just got back from duabi... work has picked up a bit on the site..

slow work during the night aswell

Somebody know if there will be some lighting effect during the night?
As for grosvenor house, should be beautiful a blu light, as for the glass.

couldn't see any piling rigs on site today. hope this means they are done with piling!!

Originally Posted by bizzybonita
I thought you was luck down for good May 3rd, 2012 08:06 PM ... Thread's Playa

You sir (BIZZYBONITA) are appointed to moderate here NOT sit back and mess with, and BULLY members.



You have done this repeatedly with myself,despite my contribution to the D.Sc. threads and other since 2007..

My contribution to DSc is less because of your single handed ,sick minded bulling attitude imo!

take a look at your pointless tirade against me since the turn of the year below

I have repeatedly asked you and atlind, for your help for improvements to the Mess ,which your lack of "moderation" has led too in the first place on the DSc threads....


I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS !!!!!!


Profile Infraction
Reason: Random Post
July 3rd, 2011 06:06 PM by bizzybonita 3 / May 3rd, 2012 06:06 PM

Profile Infraction
Reason: Inappropriate Language
February 7th, 2011 09:28 PM by bizzybonita 1 / Expired

Profile Infraction
Reason: Posting random stuff/opening random threads
February 4th, 2011 02:21 PM by bizzybonita 2 / Never

Profile Warning
Reason: Wrong attitude
February 4th, 2011 02:17 PM by bizzybonita 0 / Expired

Bizzybonita your are one sick human being..

couldn't see any piling rigs on site today. hope this means they are done with piling!!

whats the next stage if piling is done?

will we see some kind of foundation appear?

Just want to introduce myself as a new member....I have a 1 bed 18th floor in central tower.....I think!!!!!!

whats the next stage if piling is done?

will we see some kind of foundation appear?

is there anyone with construction/engineering background who can shed some light on this.will be nice to know what is the next stage.
Glover please post some more pictures.:bash:

Just want to introduce myself as a new member....I have a 1 bed 18th floor in central tower.....I think!!!!!!

welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase.
why is it you are not sure about the floor.:cheers:

is there anyone with construction/engineering background who can shed some light on this.will be nice to know what is the next stage.
Glover please post some more pictures.:bash:

The next stage involves digging out the piles and a couple of guys with jack hammers breaking off the tops of the piles. This could last for months with there being 3 towers. Then they prepare the excavation to formation level and pour oversite blinding concrete ready to receive the waterproofing membranes. A layer of protection concrete to the membranes and gunite concrete applied to the walls for the vertical waterproofing and then we are off with the real stuff, lots of rebar and concrete.

Pilecap raft by the end of this year? :dunno:

^^ If DCE wouldn't be busy keeping The Torch and 23Marina investors mouths shut

welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase.
why is it you are not sure about the floor.:cheers:

Just checked and it is the 18th......

The next stage involves digging out the piles and a couple of guys with jack hammers breaking off the tops of the piles. This could last for months with there being 3 towers. Then they prepare the excavation to formation level and pour oversite blinding concrete ready to receive the waterproofing membranes. A layer of protection concrete to the membranes and gunite concrete applied to the walls for the vertical waterproofing and then we are off with the real stuff, lots of rebar and concrete.

Pilecap raft by the end of this year? :dunno:

thanks trueblue. we will have to see how fast SP progress:bash:

I am back in Dubai at present. I remember the piling which has been on going when I was last here in April, its frustrating to see how all other construction sites and developments around the Baycentral site have popped up and increased in so many floors since April.

Not to mention the Marina Mall is coming along great. The cream braile like patterns on the building will look great in my opinion.

However for us I have yet nothing to report - I really cant add anything more than what has already been said ont his forum other than to say that with my non engineering trained eye - it looks all quite bare and has minimal movement with very little cranes and workmen! :ohno:

I am back in Dubai at present. I remember the piling which has been on going when I was last here in April, its frustrating to see how all other construction sites and developments around the Baycentral site have popped up and increased in so many floors since April.

Not to mention the Marina Mall is coming along great. The cream braile like patterns on the building will look great in my opinion.

However for us I have yet nothing to report - I really cant add anything more than what has already been said ont his forum other than to say that with my non engineering trained eye - it looks all quite bare and has minimal movement with very little cranes and workmen! :ohno:

One year from now b4 you see this above the pavement.

^^
SP said that they were delayed starting for 6 months as they had to provide certain assurances to Emaar regarding revised procedures following the Infinity problem. Other developers have stated this as well so it's not SP bullshit......................not sure how this helps my "waiting for DCE to start construction " theory though. :lol:

The "grandest" of bullshit reasons I have come across so far with regards to BC construction progress.

:ohno: Believe what you like, but it does happen to be true. It's well know that Emaar had to tighten up after the Infinity disaster.

^^ Not 6 months, that is just bullshitting.

Okay..........5 months then. :hilarious

Morris, there's a rumour going around that you got one of the girls in DS/SP sales office pregnant 3 years ago.

Apparently she hasn't given birth yet! :lol:

That's correct..........the delay in giving birth is due to concerns over the breaking of waters.......I told you Infinity was the reason procedures were tightened up. :lol:

^^Top man Morris. :lol:

any updated pictures? and can someone confirm that piling has finished and were at the next stage..

any updated pictures? and can someone confirm that piling has finished and were at the next stage..

just returned from dubai. not much was happening at sight. seems no change from last pictures. so did not bother taking any.:bash:

Hello Glover,Imre
please post some pictures
i called SP and they said something has completed...now i dont know what actually they have said...but it was regarding piling...i didnt understand what they were talking about..
please some one explain what will be the next step
thank you

:):)

just returned from dubai. not much was happening at sight. seems no change from last pictures. so did not bother taking any.:bash:

Hope you had a good trip - disappointing to hear about the lack of progress though...

Looks like I'll have to pencil in July 2010 for it to be handed over if I am lucky, July 2011 if I am not! :ohno:

Hope you had a good trip - disappointing to hear about the lack of progress though...

Looks like I'll have to pencil in July 2010 for it to be handed over if I am lucky, July 2011 if I am not! :ohno:

hi had a brilliant trip. we walked around bc site and also looked at it from jbr podium. was after lunch and there was no one at the site AND IT WAS A THURSDAY.
we will be lucky if bc fnishes even by july2011.torch was making excellent progress.:cheers:

Hope you had a good trip - disappointing to hear about the lack of progress though...

Looks like I'll have to pencil in July 2010 for it to be handed over if I am lucky, July 2011 if I am not! :ohno:

hi had a brilliant trip. we walked around bc site and also looked at it from jbr podium. was after lunch and there was no one at the site AND IT WAS A THURSDAY.
we will be lucky if bc fnishes even by july2011.torch was making excellent progress.:cheers:

Hello Glover,Imre
please post some pictures
i called SP and they said something has completed...now i dont know what actually they have said...but it was regarding piling...i didnt understand what they were talking about..
please some one explain what will be the next step
thank you

:):)

Probably another payment

if it is delayed... its 2 year from the completion date for compansation right? dec 2011.. any one know what sort of compansation we get.. i think the people who bought the torch, are getting compansation for the delay, how much?? any one know??

all i know its on how much you have paid.. im not on the 15 year payment plan.. how its it worked out?

anyone know??

SP compensation is calculated as;

What you have paid so far when compensation is due to you as stated in your contract at a rate of US LIBOR + 1%.

US LIBOR is currently around 2%.

Basicaly the square root of F**k all.

http://imaging.gnads4u.com/images/00...878_1/orig.pdf

Just in case any body wants to buy some. :lol:

After calling me two days ago, telling me that my investments have more than doubled (worth 2,500/sqft I was told) :lol: and would I be interested in buying in the new developments. :bash::bash:

I thought it was London Libor, but don't wana start this bullshit libor discussion again. So no answers. I said no answers High Times!

(ok, PM me. :sly:)

I thought it was London Libor, but don't wana start this bullshit libor discussion again. So no answers. I said no answers High Times!

(ok, PM me. :sly:)

Yes, the "L" in LIBOR stands for LONDON, but please don't get me started on all this crap again! :ohno::lol:

I thought it was London Libor, but don't wana start this bullshit libor discussion again. So no answers. I said no answers High Times!

(ok, PM me. :sly:)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

today July 2. definitely done with piling.

forecast calls for a dusty summer in the Gulf this year.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1411/img0133cu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1411/img0133cu5.b8221d5d7b.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=47&i=img0133cu5.jpg)


http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/1750/img0134ny5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/1750/img0134ny5.54b0e0a72a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=60&i=img0134ny5.jpg)


http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1366/img0135ak1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1366/img0135ak1.5f96c05ffa.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=57&i=img0135ak1.jpg)

^^ Thanks for the update Glover!

Here is the panorama:

http://i27.tinypic.com/153tkw6.jpg

Many thanks for the update Glover.

There are four basement floors so there's hell of a lot of excavation to do here !!

:banana:thanks glover for pictures.can anyone enlighten us as to how far they have to dig and what is the next stage. i walked across the bridge last week and silverene sight was dug up at least twice what BC looks like

As the Torch also had 4 basement levels here's a pic (from February 2007) to give an idea:

http://i32.tinypic.com/f59eua.jpg

how many basement levels does BC have?

if the piling has finished.. sure there not gonna go down much more?

:bash:thanks for pics morris. looking at these BC have a long way to dig as yet

Wow, I think BC has to be the slowest development in the entire of Dubai..

Having come back from Dubai on Saturday, as mentioned before I was surprised to see so many other developments around BC had popped up since my last time in Dubai which was in April.

Even the Point had reached its 10th floor.

BC will be certainly be making a name for itself - the longest drawn out ever construction in a Country where the fastest of constructions in the World are taking place! :ohno:

Thankyou GLOVER & FWIW for the pictures :)

how many basement levels does BC have?

if the piling has finished.. sure there not gonna go down much more?


SP have confirmed to me that there are 4 basement floors.

Looks like they are 3 levels below street level at the moment so only 1 level to dig out.

It's time for them to start

http://i29.tinypic.com/kehs13.jpg
Description Next level of excavation 30% complete

http://i29.tinypic.com/2mhiqvc.jpg
Description All piles completed for everything on the 2 residential towers.

http://i27.tinypic.com/259g4mp.jpg
Description Last level of anchors are being drilled into the shorepiling where all excavation has already been completed

http://i27.tinypic.com/1znq2xz.jpg
Description Pictures show the piles being cut down to the next level using neumatic drills

^^^^ should we see this as an ominuos sign!!! surely, dubai's municipality would not issue a completion certificate unless all the towers are done. a delay in finishing the hotel tower would mean a delay in handing over the residential towers!!

"All piles completed for everything on the 2 residential towers"

Do someone no if we wil have a ferry dock infront by hotel to take to the other area and shop mall? Work seam to dig deep now but another 20 meters to do deep like torch. Can tram bus get stop here or by point neareste? sorry maney question.

^^^^ should we see this as an ominuos sign!!! surely, dubai's municipality would not issue a completion certificate unless all the towers are done. a delay in finishing the hotel tower would mean a delay in handing over the residential towers!!

"All piles completed for everything on the 2 residential towers"

Maybe they are just using the logic that residents of the hotel are not interested in piling progress just the investors/owners.:dunno:

they should concentrate in completing their projects and not launching every third month new ones which will suffer the same delays as the existing projects.

Getting really upset with these people - ok the location is fine but it is expected that a constructor should stick more or less to the timetable.

and who said that the investment doubled within the last 2 years ? Maybe in theory but I didnt see any major evidence as of yet. :ohno:

they should concentrate in completing their projects and not launching every third month new ones which will suffer the same delays as the existing projects.

Getting really upset with these people - ok the location is fine but it is expected that a constructor should stick more or less to the timetable.

and who said that the investment doubled within the last 2 years ? Maybe in theory but I didnt see any major evidence as of yet. :ohno:

i agree with you.bc seem to launch new projects at a great speed.they are getting greedy. does anyone know when the penalty clause kicks in.
also before escrow accont became law the payments we made before this. did these go to the developer or were they transferred to escrow account.if the payments were put in escrow account then the developer will have to get moving as they will only get staged payments from dubai islamic bank.
any comments and views would be welcome.
:bash:

^^ Discussed this issue with High Times a while back, as I was watching what would the compensation process be with The Torch.

BC completion date is Dec 2009. As far as I understand it, compensation will start to be paid on a monthly basis from Dec 2010 i.e. after one year delay. The compensation will be 1% above the LIBOR rate (Sorry Naz!) against what you have already paid. There is confusion as to which LIBOR rate would be used (daily (most likely), weekly, monthly, quarterly, etc) and in which currency (USD most likely).

Don't think the compensation scheme will make us rich, but at least we have one!

This gets worse and worse and really dont know where some of your radars are. While others are selling their apartments in Park island for 2million today (like 100% profit with 30% still left to pay for the final installment), you guys are debating on a 1% compensation and when it would kick in. Trying to deliver a development close to the advertised completion date is not a priority for DS.
Forget the 1% compensation talk. In comparision to what people make in Dubai today from property sales/renting their units .... this is peanuts. Brace yourself for the long ride with this one.

Your right Buster, the compensation scheme SP have in place is actually negative in real terms.

With good premiums available here already selling might be worth considering as this is 2012 completion in my view. Thats a long wait to either sell or rent.
With compensation being worth less than the square root of f**k all.

aproxx price of a bc unit with marina view now is about 1950 per sq ft

This gets worse and worse and really dont know where some of your radars are. While others are selling their apartments in Park island for 2million today (like 100% profit with 30% still left to pay for the final installment), you guys are debating on a 1% compensation and when it would kick in. Trying to deliver a development close to the advertised completion date is not a priority for DS.
Forget the 1% compensation talk. In comparision to what people make in Dubai today from property sales/renting their units .... this is peanuts. Brace yourself for the long ride with this one.

compensation was not an issue in my post. my concern was the money sent to developers before escrow account was made law.I completely agree with you regarding all BC investors and people planning to move to dubai loosing money. as you said park island is selling at 100% profit.we are being taken for a ride but what is the solution:ohno:

Are BC units re-selling quickly ? Anybody got more info on that ?

Are BC units re-selling quickly ? Anybody got more info on that ?

there were a few on better homes site which seem to have gone.i am trying to sell one of mine. have had a few ridicolous offers which i have refused. not seen many more bc units for sale on any websites^^

^^

Select Property get agents to remove properties from their sites for some reason.

Can't see prices going anywhere until BC is out of the ground and a few floors past podium level. Not worth even thinking about selling until such time IMO. Only sell now if you are really desperate and there's no other option. Worth holding onto for another 12 months.

Progress has been very slow so far. There's of course still hell of a lot of work to do here. But having said that Park Island went up really quickly when the ground work was finished. Hopefully DCE will put the same crew on to BC and we should see the same progress. :shifty:

there were a few on better homes site which seem to have gone.i am trying to sell one of mine. have had a few ridicolous offers which i have refused. not seen many more bc units for sale on any websites^^

Quite a few for sale(would you like some) but as you said you get some clowns with funny offers:bash::bash:

Quite a few for sale(would you like some) but as you said you get some clowns with funny offers:bash::bash:

yes you get people playing silly bu--ers.i may take morris advise and hang onto mine till we see bc out of ground:bash:

:banana:thanks glover for pictures.can anyone enlighten us as to how far they have to dig and what is the next stage. i walked across the bridge last week and silverene sight was dug up at least twice what BC looks like
That's right. Moreover, Silverene developers have started construction much later than Bay Central, but doing quite faster.

That's right. Moreover, Silverene developers have started construction much later than Bay Central, but doing quite faster.

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


Go Silverene Go :lol:

QUOTE=FWIW;21782731]Hello JoeCoolSA - Welcome!
Are you an investor in Bay Central or just passing by?
Hovewer, Escrow account in place in Dubai reassure me...no construction progress - no money for DS...and I'm still very happy about the location that I've chosen!

Does it make much sense? Not at all.
You say "no construction progress - no money for DS"...
So?
Whatever but they bank you cheque right in time, aren't they?
I just wonder: why RERA (or appropriate authorities) don't force all Developers to charge clients/investors according to construction progress?
e.g. like in "Dome" project on JLT, some of ACI projects in Business Bay?
It's ridiculous that they charge money on the due day and literally doing notning!

Quite a few for sale(would you like some) but as you said you get some clowns with funny offers:bash::bash:

Who is selling these apartments?

hi welcome to forum. 750 k works out at 1680 aed/sq feet.which is a reasonable price.one car park space per apartment should be included but check with seller.also confirm who is going to pay the transfer fee +agent fees.:nuts:
Good price!

Who is selling these apartments?

look at better homes website and sherwoods and profile proerties.
dxbgo:nuts:

They are at it again ... Check out the completion date ... :ohno:

http://i35.tinypic.com/e7xnpi.jpg

^^ In 2012 they will still be trying to work out how they will get utility services to the islands not to mention where the sewage will go..... Yuk!!

Before anyone suggests it, septic tanks 4km off shore :ohno:

Usual DS/SP philosophy, get the money in first, then work out how to build it :lol:

^^ Think of another D for that :)

Does it make much sense? Not at all.
You say "no construction progress - no money for DS"...
So?
Whatever but they bank you cheque right in time, aren't they?
I just wonder: why RERA (or appropriate authorities) don't force all Developers to charge clients/investors according to construction progress?
e.g. like in "Dome" project on JLT, some of ACI projects in Business Bay?
It's ridiculous that they charge money on the due day and literally doing notning!

Since the beginning, instalments were held within Escrow account...Barclays Escrow account was in place before RERA establishment and then funds were moved to Dubai Islamic Bank.
You have to pay your instalments in order to comply your dues, but funds have to be released from Escrow account holder to SP only following the construction progress.
As I understood, Escrow account works in this manner...

today, friday.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6251/img0137pd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6251/img0137pd4.c2f5a75c20.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=501&i=img0137pd4.jpg)

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2203/img0139al4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2203/img0139al4.19ba1b7a85.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=73&i=img0139al4.jpg)

Thanks glover for the update - I was getting bored!

Here's the pano:

http://i38.tinypic.com/25jd36o.jpg

Thank you Glover...

without your posting...its almost impossible to know whats goin on....

Looks like they have also cleaned the hotel tower site as well....compare to last pictrue posted about week ago...may be its good progress...

according to updates from BC...only one level to be excavate...

Experts comments welcome...

thought about selling my 1 bed on 28 th floor..but will wait for one more year...

I have been thinking about the BC construction timelines, and how BC compares with Park Island.

I have put together this little chart with some of my own guesses on it:

http://i37.tinypic.com/mah46x.jpg

At the moment I am optimistic that my prediction is on track for a Sep 2011 handover, but things are on a knife-edge. I am hoping that once DCE finish at Park Island, then DCE will go hell-for-leather at BC. I guess that a BC tower should be rising from Jan 2009, approx. 2 years to build towers, 8 months for interiors.

True Blue - I know you have made predictions in the past on when you think it will be handed over; can you tell me your latest prediction and I will add it to the chart?

I will keep the chart updated if others think it useful!

Anyone else with any other completion dates?

^^ 12/12/2012 :)

^^ I like it Mackie - at least your guess still fits onto my chart!

It is a lot easier to give a completion estimate when you know what the start date is!! :)

Bit like trying to win the lottery without buying a ticket.

^^ 12/12/2014 :)

^^ Morris - you need to tow the company line! You must not deviate from the official date. Go back to Wilmslow and redo your DS/SP training course! ;-)

Hi
new to this and have apartment in West Tower. Reading through all the recent posts i wonder why anyone has an apartment in BC. No one has a good word to say about anything...Am i missing something? Should i cut and run and sell my apartment here? Sounds aweful!!!

Hi
new to this and have apartment in West Tower. Reading through all the recent posts i wonder why anyone has an apartment in BC. No one has a good word to say about anything...Am i missing something? Should i cut and run and sell my apartment here? Sounds aweful!!!

There's nothing wrong at with the development itself, it will be a great building and capital gains will be very good. I'm sure eveybody is agreed on this........even TB !!

Only issue people have here is the estimated time to completion. It is very slow and I personally wish I'd invested now in the Point which was launched over 7 months prior to BC. This likewise got off to a very slow start but being a much smaller project it is now steaming ahead quite nicely. Problem with BC is that there's never been enough manpower and equipment on site for such a large development like this........only two piling rigs has simply been pathetic.

Who knows when the bloody thing's going to be handed over. I signed up in October 2006 which in 3 months time will be two years ago and I'm very disappointed with progress here....... it's even been worse than the Torch !!. I had thought the Hotel involvement would have meant that that progress would be fairly swift.......a major misjudgement on my part. Official completion date is December 2009........no bloody chance. What, with The Torch and Bay Central this is costing me a bloody fortune. Only good thing is I could have done a lot worse and invested in Princess, Ocean Heights, Elite Residences, Pinnacle or Infinity........but nobody dares criticise these.......forum rules, that's not allowed on SSC. :lol:

As I say........great project..........but shite progress.:nuts:

BTW Maktol what's your view about it then ??

Hi
new to this and have apartment in West Tower. Reading through all the recent posts i wonder why anyone has an apartment in BC. No one has a good word to say about anything...Am i missing something? Should i cut and run and sell my apartment here? Sounds aweful!!!

There is no doubt that this is a nice project. Good facilites, great location, and the hotel adds some value. I nearly bought here myself.

I wont be popular saying this but i think that it will be at least 2012 until completion maybe longer. Thats a 4-5 year wait to either sell or rent out.

From a pure investment point of view you would do better to sell now and invest the money in Bank stock in the UK. There are good premiums here now because expectation is still reasonable. As time goes on people will begin to get pissed off with having dead money tied up for 5 years. Compensation is negative in real terms.

Many investors here are British and as recession bites I think people wont be able to leave money sat in the ground and will look to get out. If this creates a lot of sellers what will happen to prices ?

With a completion date of 2012 i think that will be oversupply time for Dubai Marina and there could potential be a blip.crash, bubble burst, call it what you like.

If you have bought here to use yourself to live in, or holiday and are in it for the long term 10 years + then it will be fine.

If you have bought here looking to sell on completion do your sums and think hard as timing and exit strategy is crutial to all investments.

I'll have a bet with anyone that HBOS shares double in value before BC is complete.

^^ Those Northern Rock shares looked like good value too! UK Bank shares - don't make me laugh!

Hi
new to this and have apartment in West Tower. Reading through all the recent posts i wonder why anyone has an apartment in BC. No one has a good word to say about anything...Am i missing something? Should i cut and run and sell my apartment here? Sounds aweful!!!

They were saying this about TT and TP a year ago (checkout the pictures of the sites from year ago also on SSC)
- once towers start rising prices and investors outlooks do also
- if you were in BC early i guess you could come out quite good now if later wait til podium and couple floors are up - just my opinion

There is no doubt that this is a nice project. Good facilites, great location, and the hotel adds some value. I nearly bought here myself.

I wont be popular saying this but i think that it will be at least 2012 until completion maybe longer. Thats a 4-5 year wait to either sell or rent out.

From a pure investment point of view you would do better to sell now and invest the money in Bank stock in the UK. There are good premiums here now because expectation is still reasonable. As time goes on people will begin to get pissed off with having dead money tied up for 5 years. Compensation is negative in real terms.

Many investors here are British and as recession bites I think people wont be able to leave money sat in the ground and will look to get out. If this creates a lot of sellers what will happen to prices ?

With a completion date of 2012 i think that will be oversupply time for Dubai Marina and there could potential be a blip.crash, bubble burst, call it what you like.

If you have bought here to use yourself to live in, or holiday and are in it for the long term 10 years + then it will be fine.

If you have bought here looking to sell on completion do your sums and think hard as timing and exit strategy is crutial to all investments.

I'll have a bet with anyone that HBOS shares double in value before BC is complete.

I did buy here in central tower an 07 full marina view for 1300 aed per sq ft knowing full well it was going to be delayed like everything else. I do not however think of the money as dead as every month prices seem to be rising and who knows what the finished product will be worth 3000, 4000 aed sq ft?

:) Bay Central in my opinion, will possibly complete by December 2010.

^^ Jeetha - I really hope you are right, but what makes you say that?

lets just hope SP get there finger out

I'll have a bet with anyone that HBOS shares double in value before BC is complete.

^^ Those Northern Rock shares looked like good value too! UK Bank shares - don't make me laugh!

Are your balls as big as your mouth ?

I'm willing to put mine on the table. HBOS are £2.66 a share.

You might have a completion cirtificate in 2011 if your extreamly lucky.

Feeling lucky ?

Punk?

^^ Jeetha - I really hope you are right, but what makes you say that?

Actually I’m just being comforting to my neighbours. :)

if the delay is lenghty people who have financed there money will suffer as there will be paying loads of interest over years

people who havent financed who could afford to paid it all.. still wont be bad off as once completed will receive good profitable gain.

Hotel + tram stop right outside + beach side = prime location to live/Rent in 2011 or 2012

theres always a delay in dubai on completion of buildings 1 year.. so 2011 hand over would be very good...

Are your balls as big as your mouth ?

I'm willing to put mine on the table. HBOS are £2.66 a share.

You might have a completion cirtificate in 2011 if your extreamly lucky.

Feeling lucky ?

You always so vulgar?

I thought I was on a skyscraper forum related to Bay Central, not a HBOS investment advice centre.

:nuts:

^^^^
Mmmmmmm as I suspected, No is the answer to my vulgar question.

^^ Those Northern Rock shares looked like good value too! UK Bank shares - don't make me laugh!

If your going to shout someone down at least have the courage to back it up.

You are well suited to your avatar Spidey,

As invertebrates are also spineless creatures.

^^^^
Mmmmmmm as I suspected, No is the answer to my vulgar question.



If your going to shout someone down at least have the courage to back it up.

You are well suited to your avatar Spidey,

As invertebrates are also spineless creatures.

OK High Times - here are the reasons I don't think HBOS are a good bet:
1) UK Housing market is in crash mode
2) HBOS have been deeply involved with "Liar Loans". See here:
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=81677
and you especially need to see this http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8482518243122067675&hl=en-GB
3) IndyMac have just failed in the USA; How many will fail in the UK?
4) MoneyWeek say stay out of bank shares: http://www.moneyweek.com/file/mwu/1/50375/are-things-really-as-bad-as-they-seem-for-british-banks.html

This paragraph says it all:
If these bulls are right, some banks are cheap. It’s possible that share prices at many banks have been driven down by trading shenanigans by hedge funds around their rights issues. Certainly any bank that avoids bankruptcy ought, over time, eventually to trade at least at book value. For the very brave – and very patient – that could signal buying opportunities at B&B (LON:BB), HBOS (LON:HBOS), RBS (LON:RBS) and possibly Barclays. The snag is that, thanks to opaque accounting practices, it is very hard for outsiders to know what their loan books are really worth. Much as I admire the bulls I am inclined to be neither brave nor patient.

5) This chart says it all:
http://i37.tinypic.com/o6b7sm.jpg

I could go on & on, but I really would like to get back to talking about my investment in Bay Central!

I personally don't like catching falling knives - if you enjoy it then good luck to you.

Now that I have backed up my statement, please do me the courtesy of telling me why HBOS are much better than RBS or LTSB, etc, etc but please do this in the Investment forum and not in here. :cheers:

FWIW - This is great info - please keep it up to date.
thks

I find FWIW rather convincing!

i am in agreement with FWIW.are we still going to be neighbours. could set a finacial advisory service

Sorry Bay Central Construction enthusiasts but my original comments were VERY relevant as it was discussing estimated completion dates. We have digressed slightly I admit, and I apologise for that, however there is very little progress here so were are hardly preventing serious construction discussion.

My original post was in answer to MAKTOL’s question.

No one has a good word to say about anything...Am i missing something? Should i cut and run and sell my apartment here? Sounds aweful!!!

In essence all I was saying is that any investment strategy is dependant upon TIMING.

I did say that if your in it to hold for 10 years + or live and use it then its fine. You are onto a winner in my opinion

If your in it to sell at completion or rent out then not so good IN MY VIEW.

I think the general consensus of completion time for BC seems to be around 2012. That’s around 4 years. From an investment point of view its what prices are when BC is complete that counts.

Understand one thing. Prices that escalate sharply in any market is dangerous. I think that oversupply will hit Dubai in 2012-2013. If you are taking delivery of your unit within this window then you will suffer as a result of TIMING.

FWIW – your Google video (circa 2003) is basically proving my point here. Any market that is being pushed up by whatever source will eventually go bang ! In the case of UK property it was self cirt lending. In the case of Dubai property it is developers fixing prices (including the government), liquidity in the gulf (oil is the next bubble to burst), and raw materiel costs(now that the west has stopped building supply problems will ease in time).

On the HBOS point I really only quoted them as they are well known not because I think they are a better bet than any other major Bank in the UK so I am not going to defend them or recommend them specifically. Again its TIMING that’s important and all major UK Banks are currently undervalued. P/E ratios are now looking very attractive and there is £billions sat in cash waiting to go back into stocks (may not happen for 6-12 months) but it will happen. Banks are currently repairing their balance sheets using rights issues and many foreign sovereign wealth funds are waiting to buy into them also.

The UK Banking sector is hundreds of years old and has been through difficult periods many times before. They will always come out on top. If HBOS or RBS or Barclays went bankrupt do you realise who they would take with them? It doesn’t bare thinking about. Your BC apartment will be the last of your worries then I assure you.

Who do you think is bank rolling the SP lengthy payment plan ? It ain’t Sarbucks that’s for sure!

So the potential opportunity that exists to invest in an asset that is undervalued for me is better than investing in an asset that is being potentially overvalued within the realisation period.

So FWIW and the rest of the Bay Central neighbourhood watch scheme.

My offer still stands. I’ll even let you pick the stock that will double in value before you get your apartment keys or completion certificates.

HBOS - £2.66
RBS - £1.82
Barclays - £2.67
Nat West - £1.14
Lloyds TSB - £2.75

If not then lets agree to disagree.

You can continue to look at the hole in the ground and i can go and watch all the wanna be investors lose a fortune because traders are selling short in a bear market.

Sorry Bay Central Construction enthusiasts but my original comments were VERY relevant as it was discussing estimated completion dates. We have digressed slightly I admit, and I apologise for that, however there is very little progress here so were are hardly preventing serious construction discussion.

My original post was in answer to MAKTOL’s question.



In essence all I was saying is that any investment strategy is dependant upon TIMING.

I did say that if your in it to hold for 10 years + or live and use it then its fine. You are onto a winner in my opinion

If your in it to sell at completion or rent out then not so good IN MY VIEW.

I think the general consensus of completion time for BC seems to be around 2012. That’s around 4 years. From an investment point of view its what prices are when BC is complete that counts.

Understand one thing. Prices that escalate sharply in any market is dangerous. I think that oversupply will hit Dubai in 2012-2013. If you are taking delivery of your unit within this window then you will suffer as a result of TIMING.

FWIW – your Google video (circa 2003) is basically proving my point here. Any market that is being pushed up by whatever source will eventually go bang ! In the case of UK property it was self cirt lending. In the case of Dubai property it is developers fixing prices (including the government), liquidity in the gulf (oil is the next bubble to burst), and raw materiel costs(now that the west has stopped building supply problems will ease in time).

On the HBOS point I really only quoted them as they are well known not because I think they are a better bet than any other major Bank in the UK so I am not going to defend them or recommend them specifically. Again its TIMING that’s important and all major UK Banks are currently undervalued. P/E ratios are now looking very attractive and there is £billions sat in cash waiting to go back into stocks (may not happen for 6-12 months) but it will happen. Banks are currently repairing their balance sheets using rights issues and many foreign sovereign wealth funds are waiting to buy into them also.

The UK Banking sector is hundreds of years old and has been through difficult periods many times before. They will always come out on top. If HBOS or RBS or Barclays went bankrupt do you realise who they would take with them? It doesn’t bare thinking about. Your BC apartment will be the last of your worries then I assure you.

Who do you think is bank rolling the SP lengthy payment plan ? It ain’t Sarbucks that’s for sure!

So the potential opportunity that exists to invest in an asset that is undervalued for me is better than investing in an asset that is being potentially overvalued within the realisation period.

So FWIW and the rest of the Bay Central neighbourhood watch scheme.

My offer still stands. I’ll even let you pick the stock that will double in value before you get your apartment keys or completion certificates.

HBOS - £2.66
RBS - £1.82
Barclays - £2.67
Nat West - £1.14
Lloyds TSB - £2.75

If not then lets agree to disagree.

You can continue to look at the hole in the ground and i can go and watch all the wanna be investors lose a fortune because traders are selling short in a bear market.
I agree banks stocks look good value but my BC apartment will be better value and I can't have both !!

Both High Times and FWIW make very good points and it makes for an interesting debate, however inappropriate it may otherwise be for this forum. That said, the points they make jell when the form in which they are made is not corrupted by name-calling or abuse. I am afraid this is where one of them was remiss initially. Mercifully, it is more reasoned now. However, with everyone wiser, seriously, we may revert back to what is core to BC.

Thanks for reading this.

Both High Times and FWIW make very good points and it makes for an interesting debate, however inappropriate it may otherwise be for this forum. That said, the points they make jell when the form in which they are made is not corrupted by name-calling or abuse. I am afraid this is where one of them was remiss initially. Mercifully, it is more reasoned now. However, with everyone wiser, seriously, we may revert back to what is core to BC.

Thanks for reading this.
The problem is there is no "core" to BC until April 09 ? when there will be three !

i am in agreement with FWIW.are we still going to be neighbours. could set a finacial advisory service

Hi DXBGO - Yes, we are sure gonna be neighbours! Can't wait to have a few beers in BC hotel and [sarcasm ON] talk about the good old days when UK bank shares were so cheap! If only we listened to High Times!! [/sarcasm OFF] :lol: :nuts:

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

Both High Times and FWIW make very good points and it makes for an interesting debate, however inappropriate it may otherwise be for this forum. That said, the points they make jell when the form in which they are made is not corrupted by name-calling or abuse. I am afraid this is where one of them was remiss initially. Mercifully, it is more reasoned now. However, with everyone wiser, seriously, we may revert back to what is core to BC.

Thanks for reading this.

Hi Rags - Thanks for taking a note of what went on; even spidermen super-heroes have feelings!

Sorry Bay Central Construction enthusiasts but my original comments were VERY relevant as it was discussing estimated completion dates. We have digressed slightly I admit, and I apologise for that, however there is very little progress here so were are hardly preventing serious construction discussion.

My original post was in answer to MAKTOL’s question.



In essence all I was saying is that any investment strategy is dependant upon TIMING.

I did say that if your in it to hold for 10 years + or live and use it then its fine. You are onto a winner in my opinion

If your in it to sell at completion or rent out then not so good IN MY VIEW.

I think the general consensus of completion time for BC seems to be around 2012. That’s around 4 years. From an investment point of view its what prices are when BC is complete that counts.

Understand one thing. Prices that escalate sharply in any market is dangerous. I think that oversupply will hit Dubai in 2012-2013. If you are taking delivery of your unit within this window then you will suffer as a result of TIMING.

FWIW – your Google video (circa 2003) is basically proving my point here. Any market that is being pushed up by whatever source will eventually go bang ! In the case of UK property it was self cirt lending. In the case of Dubai property it is developers fixing prices (including the government), liquidity in the gulf (oil is the next bubble to burst), and raw materiel costs(now that the west has stopped building supply problems will ease in time).

On the HBOS point I really only quoted them as they are well known not because I think they are a better bet than any other major Bank in the UK so I am not going to defend them or recommend them specifically. Again its TIMING that’s important and all major UK Banks are currently undervalued. P/E ratios are now looking very attractive and there is £billions sat in cash waiting to go back into stocks (may not happen for 6-12 months) but it will happen. Banks are currently repairing their balance sheets using rights issues and many foreign sovereign wealth funds are waiting to buy into them also.

The UK Banking sector is hundreds of years old and has been through difficult periods many times before. They will always come out on top. If HBOS or RBS or Barclays went bankrupt do you realise who they would take with them? It doesn’t bare thinking about. Your BC apartment will be the last of your worries then I assure you.

Who do you think is bank rolling the SP lengthy payment plan ? It ain’t Sarbucks that’s for sure!

So the potential opportunity that exists to invest in an asset that is undervalued for me is better than investing in an asset that is being potentially overvalued within the realisation period.

So FWIW and the rest of the Bay Central neighbourhood watch scheme.

My offer still stands. I’ll even let you pick the stock that will double in value before you get your apartment keys or completion certificates.

HBOS - £2.66
RBS - £1.82
Barclays - £2.67
Nat West - £1.14
Lloyds TSB - £2.75

If not then lets agree to disagree.

You can continue to look at the hole in the ground and i can go and watch all the wanna be investors lose a fortune because traders are selling short in a bear market.

Can I pick Bradford & Bingley???? BB.L - £0.475

What is the prize? What happens if it goes the same way as NR before BC handover?

:banana:

Otherwise, lets just agree to disagree...

@ HT;

Are you going to let Spiderman get away with this? :cheers:

I love it, it has been a while since we had one of these Torch / BC discussions :banana:

Does anybody in this town thinks for a moment that property prices can also go the opposite direction :dunno: Just a thought :)

with dubai select Property it maybe possible :D

There's nothing wrong at with the development itself, it will be a great building and capital gains will be very good. I'm sure eveybody is agreed on this........even TB !!

Only issue people have here is the estimated time to completion. It is very slow and I personally wish I'd invested now in the Point which was launched over 7 months prior to BC. This likewise got off to a very slow start but being a much smaller project it is now steaming ahead quite nicely. Problem with BC is that there's never been enough manpower and equipment on site for such a large development like this........only two piling rigs has simply been pathetic.

Who knows when the bloody thing's going to be handed over. I signed up in October 2006 which in 3 months time will be two years ago and I'm very disappointed with progress here....... it's even been worse than the Torch !!. I had thought the Hotel involvement would have meant that that progress would be fairly swift.......a major misjudgement on my part. Official completion date is December 2009........no bloody chance. What, with The Torch and Bay Central this is costing me a bloody fortune. Only good thing is I could have done a lot worse and invested in Princess, Ocean Heights, Elite Residences, Pinnacle or Infinity........but nobody dares criticise these.......forum rules, that's not allowed on SSC. :lol:

As I say........great project..........but shite progress.:nuts:

BTW Maktol what's your view about it then ??

...I think it is a fantastic developement and will be one of the best when it / marina is finished. I have property on the marina already and know about delays etc. I would expect a delay but some of the guesstimates on here are absurd.
I have bought a two bedroom in west tower for personal and will let hotel "lease" it for me if thats an option for 6 months of the year. I struggle to find fault and would suggest people sit back and look forward to the future. Regarding resale of units...i have had DS on several times now asking if a wish to sell my unit as they have a waiting list for units. I only bought mine in August 2007 and they are already offering a substantial "lift" on prices. I bought at AED1318 per sqft and have been offeres AED1675 by DS 2 months ago. I think that is reasonable and if i was purely investing i would be more than happy with that premium. Realsitically at this stage of the build i wouldn't expect much more than that. I would however expect around AED 2300 per sqft upon completion.
Regarding the market being saturated in 2012/13 with reasles as one member wrote...my opinion is that there are a lot of people who won't buy in a building site and are waiting for completion so they can view, then buy as in any market. Everyone will be able to sell with premiums no problem.
I heard that because the Rennaisance hotel is owned by Marriot who also own the Ritz Carlton brand that we will be "allowed" access to the Ritz Beach etc,... Any one else heard that one???

^^^^ have to disagree here. i was optimistic earlier and thought that there will be no more than a 16 month delay. but now that it turns out the piling is still not done for the hotel, the delay would be 24 months minimum.

i have 4 apartments in the west tower, and that would be at least one million dirhams in lost revenue for me.

Does anybody in this town thinks for a moment that property prices can also go the opposite direction :dunno: Just a thought :)

Of course! It's not called a "Property Cycle" for no good reason! What goes up must come down! :lol:

@ HT;
Are you going to let Spiderman get away with this? :cheers:

No wait for it buddy,

Hi DXBGO - Yes, we are sure gonna be neighbours! Can't wait to have a few beers in BC hotel and [sarcasm ON] talk about the good old days when UK bank shares were so cheap! If only we listened to High Times!! [/sarcasm OFF] :lol: :nuts:

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

Can I pick Bradford & Bingley???? BB.L - £0.475

What is the prize? What happens if it goes the same way as NR before BC handover?

:banana:

Otherwise, lets just agree to disagree...


Read it and weep Spidey, I just made 50% in 1 week hows your big hole in the ground doing. :cheers:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1029/68645646hj3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^ HT - You are a joker! When did you tell us you bought A&L shares?

Last post you said "On the HBOS point I really only quoted them as they are well known not because I think they are a better bet than any other major Bank in the UK so I am not going to defend them or recommend them specifically. Again its TIMING that’s important and all major UK Banks are currently undervalued."

Now you announce you are an investment genius because your A&L shares have gone up. Let's have a look at the YTD chart shall we? http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AL.L&t=1y

http://i37.tinypic.com/15g8cjk.jpg

I must congratulate you on your timing; I always thought you were in it for the long term as you are against speculators/speculation? Also 1 week is not enough, you made the rules and said when BC is handed over!!! (I have at least 2/3/4 years to go!!) LOL!

Please let me know what UK bank shares, when you bought them and volume you have so that when I get my BC keys I can evaluate who has 'made' more money! I take it that you will sell your torch appartments and put all you money into UK bank shares as you have so much confidence in the stock market.

To everyone else on this forum - a warning - do not listen to or act upon advice that is freely given as everyone (including me) has a vested interest!

HT - I notice that you did not take up my offer for Bradford & Bingley - it still sands by the way!

Has anyone [else] heard that use of The Ritz Carlton Beach and facilities comes with ownership in BC due to Marriot owning the Rennasaince and Ritz Brands? I have heard this several times now and think this would be a great perk...!

^^^^ have to disagree here. i was optimistic earlier and thought that there will be no more than a 16 month delay. but now that it turns out the piling is still not done for the hotel, the delay would be 24 months minimum.

i have 4 apartments in the west tower, and that would be at least one million dirhams in lost revenue for me.

Wow Glover - heavy investor here - are these high floors ?

Just got one apartment but really have to share the opinion earlier in regard to oversupply latest by 2012.

It will affect BC less than other developments but still there should be a downturn I would figure.

maybe they will get the residental towers ready before the hotel one? but surelly they all share the same base core??

not planing to sell anytime soon, unless i really have to. my time horizon is over 10 years. these i will hold for rental income, as short-let furnished apartments. you can make a minimum of 250k annually per apartment (1 beds), thanks to the 5 star hotel, location, and the 2 minute walk to the beach. i see this as a great investment long term. they are in the middle of the tower.

given that they share the podium and such, i don't think Dubai Municipality will give a certificate of completion unless all the towers are complete.

...as a cartoon...I'm with you FWIW!!!
:cheers:

You would have got a better return investing in an apartment in Iraq rather than bank shares. 100% appreciation in the last month. Less risky also :) http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/property-industry-news/baghdad-property-explodes-%E2%80%93-in-a-good-way/

but now that it turns out the piling is still not done for the hotel, the delay would be 24 months minimum.

Hi Glover,
How do you know the piling for the Hotel (East Tower) has not been done ??
I've asked SP about this and I am awaiting a reply. Would seem odd to move all the piling rigs (sorry, the two piling rigs :lol:) off site if they haven't finished.

You would have got a better return investing in an apartment in Iraq rather than bank shares. 100% appreciation in the last month. Less risky also :) http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/property-industry-news/baghdad-property-explodes-%E2%80%93-in-a-good-way/


Yeah, less risky,

As long as you don't go outsite.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

this is what DS said in their last update: "All piles completed for everything on the 2 residential towers". no mention of the hotel.

also, i don't remember seeing the piling rigs working on the hotel side when i took pictures over the last 6 months.

only DS knows for sure!!

has the hotel been cancelled?

has the hotel been cancelled?

Stop it Steve!:banana: You trying to give us a heart attack? :lol:

FWIW – My last word on the subject just to correct you one more time but it is getting boring now as you keep making the same mistakes, schoolboy errors !!

Every time you post one of your charts you make my case more solid. The latest being what has happened to A&L over the last 12 months. See, the thing is I never bought 12 months a go a bought 1 week ago as I said in my post, so your chart displays nothing except a solid case for my strategy and your total lack of understanding regarding market forces.

I have been predicting that UK Banking stocks are a good BUY for a couple of months now, go look here;


When private equity houses start buying UK banks then you know there is value in them.

Texas Pacific Group just bought 23% of Bradford & Bingley at around a 70% discount on book value of 12 months ago.

Northern Rock would have gone the same way if the UK Government didn’t bail them out with tax payers money.

RBS just had a rights issue to raise more money.

Other banks need to do the same and there are loads of private equity firms ready to make a killing.

Good time to buy UK banking stock now if you can hold for 5 years.

Morris - share price wont increase yet as funds are shoring up dodgy balance sheets. We wont see share prices go up until this years accounts have been finalised and all the bad news is out. Spring 2009 is my bet.


All I have said within the last couple of days is that UK Bank Shares will double in value before BC is complete. Simple as that. For some reason you decided to insult me by laughing and belittling this suggestion. That’s fine I don’t expect you to understand concepts that are clearly beyond you.

I initially suggested HBOS as they are one of the most well known UK Banks. I have been buying Bank stock now for the last 2 months all at different prices. Its called pyramid buying. Some I buy long some I buy short. To cover my positions.

As for my offer it was as follows, no mention of a specific end date it was left open between now and when you get your keys.


My offer still stands. I’ll even let you pick the stock that will double in value before you get your apartment keys or completion certificates.


Fairly straight forward I think.

Can I pick Bradford & Bingley???? BB.L - £0.475
What is the prize? What happens if it goes the same way as NR before BC handover?


Ok I will take you up on your B&B offer at £0.475.
If B&B follow Northern Rock then if market value is below £0.95 you win.
If it's more than £0.95, then i win.

When B&B shares hit £0.95 before you get your keys I am declared the winner and you are declared the loser. So we are playing for personal pride and a beer in the BC Hotel when it’s complete. With the way inflation is going in the UAE and the length of time you will be waiting for your hotel then this beer could cost you more than you think.

If you wanna put a higher price on it then name it it's your money your losing.

By the way my timing with A&L was impeccable. “Lucky I hear you say”

Well fortune favours the brave I say.

just went through all the piling pictures in this thread. couldn't see any piling work being done on the hotel side!! looks like they never did any piling work for the hotel after all! what a bummer!

FWIW – My last word on the subject just to correct you one more time but it is getting boring now as you keep making the same mistakes, schoolboy errors !!

Every time you post one of your charts you make my case more solid. The latest being what has happened to A&L over the last 12 months. See, the thing is I never bought 12 months a go a bought 1 week ago as I said in my post, so your chart displays nothing except a solid case for my strategy and your total lack of understanding regarding market forces.

I have been predicting that UK Banking stocks are a good BUY for a couple of months now, go look here;





All I have said within the last couple of days is that UK Bank Shares will double in value before BC is complete. Simple as that. For some reason you decided to insult me by laughing and belittling this suggestion. That’s fine I don’t expect you to understand concepts that are clearly beyond you.

I initially suggested HBOS as they are one of the most well known UK Banks. I have been buying Bank stock now for the last 2 months all at different prices. Its called pyramid buying. Some I buy long some I buy short. To cover my positions.

As for my offer it was as follows, no mention of a specific end date it was left open between now and when you get your keys.



Fairly straight forward I think.



Ok I will take you up on your B&B offer at £0.475.
If B&B follow Northern Rock then if market value is below £0.95 you win.
If it's more than £0.95, then i win.

When B&B shares hit £0.95 before you get your keys I am declared the winner and you are declared the loser. So we are playing for personal pride and a beer in the BC Hotel when it’s complete. With the way inflation is going in the UAE and the length of time you will be waiting for your hotel then this beer could cost you more than you think.

If you wanna put a higher price on it then name it it's your money your losing.

By the way my timing with A&L was impeccable. “Lucky I hear you say”

Well fortune favours the brave I say.

OK HT - Sportsman bet it is then! We play for pride!

I was only trying to get you to see my point of view, not trying to belittle you as you have done several times to me.

I will make one last attempt to reason with you - please read this article and tell me your thoughts: Is it mad to buy Northern Rock shares?
http://money.uk.msn.com/guides/asktheexperts/sharedoctor.aspx?cp-documentid=6282171

Hindsight is, as they say, the greatest teacher.

:cheers:

Has anyone [else] heard that use of The Ritz Carlton Beach and facilities comes with ownership in BC due to Marriot owning the Rennasaince and Ritz Brands? I have heard this several times now and think this would be a great perk...!

I'm sure that Renaissance were, I'm sorry, are to be management only for the hotel. They have no ownership rights to the hotel building. That would suggest that if any use of Ritz Carlton beach facilities were allowed it would be restricted to hotel residents only.

I think the hotel foundations are being redesigned to allow for the extra weight of quality interiors and blockwork partitions.:)

Stop it Steve!:banana: You trying to give us a heart attack? :lol:

I hear they will be swap between BC AND MST :lol:

I'm sure that Renaissance were, I'm sorry, are to be management only for the hotel. They have no ownership rights to the hotel building. That would suggest that if any use of Ritz Carlton beach facilities were allowed it would be restricted to hotel residents only.

I think the hotel foundations are being redesigned to allow for the extra weight of quality interiors and blockwork partitions.:)

True Blue - as our resident construction guru:), could it be feasible that in order to build the residential towers, access is required via the hotel tower? Once they get going, then the hotel tower can start in earnest?

:banana:hi guys average price in dubai marina is now 2006/sq ft according to a dubai site alineah.looks promising for all the investors.should we all stop being negative and look at the positive side of our investments.

:banana:hi guys average price in dubai marina is now 2006/sq ft according to a dubai site alineah.looks promising for all the investors.should we all stop being negative and look at the positive side of our investments.
With US Dollar tanking the way it does, all commodities including oil, construction material, etc will continue to move up. So, NEW house prices too will go up particularly in AED and other gulf currencies which are pegged to the dollar and have hence no way of adjusting themselves. One way of measuring Dubai/UAE apt price increases is to measure them in terms of Euros. The price increase then will not, I am sure, look anywhere as stark as it otherwise does.

With US Dollar tanking the way it does, all commodities including oil, construction material, etc will continue to move up. So, NEW house prices too will go up particularly in AED and other gulf currencies which are pegged to the dollar and have hence no way of adjusting themselves. One way of measuring Dubai/UAE apt price increases is to measure them in terms of Euros. The price increase then will not, I am sure, look anywhere as stark as it otherwise does.

Exactly the reason why I invested in Dubai - Pound was very strong when I bought my BC appartment. I guess that the dollar and pound will need to 'crash' in order to have any chance of paying back the bail outs of the banks.
In my opinion the US & UK will try and inflate their way out of their debts.

At some point the GCC oil producing nations will realise that their dollar mountains are becoming worthless and will switch to the Euro as the reserve currency or to a secret basket of currencies (like the chinese). I hope this happens in 2012 with the single GCC currency.

Hopefully, the US and UK recessions will have a lesser affect on Dubai as the Germans/French/Indians/China pickup the slack. By no means is this certain, but 2012 does look like its going to be a very interesting year.

Exactly the reason why I invested in Dubai - Pound was very strong when I bought my BC appartment. I guess that the dollar and pound will need to 'crash' in order to have any chance of paying back the bail outs of the banks.
In my opinion the US & UK will try and inflate their way out of their debts.

At some point the GCC oil producing nations will realise that their dollar mountains are becoming worthless and will switch to the Euro as the reserve currency or to a secret basket of currencies (like the chinese). I hope this happens in 2012 with the single GCC currency.

Hopefully, the US and UK recessions will have a lesser affect on Dubai as the Germans/French/Indians/China pickup the slack. By no means is this certain, but 2012 does look like its going to be a very interesting year.

FWIW
your analysis is very good and accurate. i bought my first apt in 2002 when i was only getting between 5.8 to 6.2 aed for £.never regretted it as this one has more trippled in price since 2002.I cant see UK and usa getting out of recession for next 2 years at least.will be interesting to see what GCC decide regarding their peg to dollar. investing in dubai is still the best bet.will what happens. uptil now no regrets.
will have a beer on BC podium.:cheers:

FWIW
your analysis is very good and accurate. i bought my first apt in 2002 when i was only getting between 5.8 to 6.2 aed for £.never regretted it as this one has more trippled in price since 2002.I cant see UK and usa getting out of recession for next 2 years at least.will be interesting to see what GCC decide regarding their peg to dollar. investing in dubai is still the best bet.will what happens. uptil now no regrets.
will have a beer on BC podium.:cheers:

Hey DXBGO! Not fair! I thought I got in early in 2003 - you are further ahead of the curve then me! Don't tell me you got some JBR too! :lol:

True Blue - as our resident construction guru:), could it be feasible that in order to build the residential towers, access is required via the hotel tower? Once they get going, then the hotel tower can start in earnest?

No, they should still start the main frame and if access is a problem they could leave the podium down and build later.

Good news.....SP have confirmed that the piling has indeed been done for the East Tower (Hotel) and that piling has been completed for all three towers. :banana:

They must have done it at night whilst we weren't looking. :lol:

The hotel does not need piles as it been changed to Travelodge which are timber framed buildings.

^^ Kidding!

Good news.....SP have confirmed that the piling has indeed been done for the East Tower (Hotel) and that piling has been completed for all three towers. :banana:

They must have done it at night whilst we weren't looking. :lol:

Should I update my chart - don't want to spend time updating it and then find that they actually only finished 90%,etc, etc....I'd hate to keep moving it on a daily basis!:nuts:

Should I update my chart - don't want to spend time updating it and then find that they actually only finished 90%,etc, etc....I'd hate to keep moving it on a daily basis!:nuts:


You can update your chart. Have sent you a PM.:)

change the chart a month forward for completion.. :banana:

The hotel does not need piles as it been changed to Travelodge which are timber framed buildings.

^^ Kidding!And is £29.99 a night (kidding also )

And is £29.99 a night (kidding also )

DS confirmed that everything is ok with no problems so far. Rennaisance is definate and have signed LOI. Build going according to schedule with money only released from escrow when targets are hit. I think you all have too much time on your hands. Rather than speculting or making things up it would be better, i think, if Forums like this dealt with facts. Rather than making owning an apartment in BC special you all turn it into a soap opera and gossip about stuff you clearly have no idea about.
Think i'll sign out for good.
P.S. Have property in other develpoements and no how it works...not a beginner!

^^^^ "Build going according to schedule"

that's a good one!! so you really believe Bay Central will be handed over Dec 2009!!

2012 minimum I promise you and a LOI does not mean anything :cheers:

From apartments in the west tower and marina facing will you be able to see down the marina towards the yacht club or will marina quays block the views??? I ask as marina quays have some great views in this direction but the buildings appear to be set a little forward.

DS confirmed that everything is ok with no problems so far. Rennaisance is definate and have signed LOI. Build going according to schedule with money only released from escrow when targets are hit. I think you all have too much time on your hands. Rather than speculting or making things up it would be better, i think, if Forums like this dealt with facts. Rather than making owning an apartment in BC special you all turn it into a soap opera and gossip about stuff you clearly have no idea about.
Think i'll sign out for good.
P.S. Have property in other develpoements and no how it works...not a beginner!

i am with maktool on this one . i said earlier we all should look at the positive side of things. prices on marina have gone up today to 2056/sq ft:banana:

I'm in Dubai this week (my first time in UAE) taking delivery of two delayed JLT apartments. I'm buying three 2-beds in The Torch so have checked out that site and also the plots for DS's other projects. I think those of you who reserved in Bay Central have done very well, it's genuinely frontline (which The Torch turned out not to be...), quiet area, short walk to the beach. Plus hotel facilities. Am I jealous? Just a little...

i have tried to assess my BC apartment for sale.....

Select Property contacted me and said that the resale value would be 1700/sqft .... :ohno: my apartment is 29th floor central tower with beautiful marina views....

at the same time they are launching the new project, west avenue, with poor marina views at 2500-2700/sqft.... :ohno:

i fail to understand this.... rubbish..:bash:






....

:lol: It does not make sense. My torch unit was valued by Select Property at 1600/sqft for a fast sale.

I can understand why they need to charge 2500psf now for new off-plan because of increased building costs but what I do not understand is why people are buying at those prices when there are resale available much cheaper and closer to completion or already completed even. Perhaps all down to the difficulty in getting finance in Dubai. With west avenue you only need to pay 30% and the rest over 15 years. To buy a resale you need to pay everything the previous investor has paid in addition to the premium and then take over the rest of the payments. So it is cheaper for a new investor to buy at 2500psf and flip and make a profit than buy resale.

One vital point you are forgetting Steve.

You are obviously quite shrude and discerning and do your research before spending your hard earned cash.

You would not belive the amount of people out there that are happy to "Buy off Plan in Dubai" just because of an advert in the press or a property show in London.

Many people buy without going to Dubai straight of the page. The key point here is that investors have been brainwashed into thinking that "off plan" is the best way to make money in Dubai.

This in my view is a disaster waiting to happen. I am currently writing a piece about it for an investment newsletter that i write for and will post it in the investment thread when done. Already posted part 1.

Basicaly because "off plan" has produced 100%+ returns from launch to handover this is now the expected norm in Dubai. With launches now at AED 2.5k+ psf this is simply unrealistic.

This will lead to huge disapiontment when delivery of these units takes place in the 2011-2013 window and will mean a lot of unhappy customers looking to leave the market. Just like all investment vehicles When things are going well everyone wants a slice of the pie. When it goes tits up everyone wants out at the same time and the vicious circle of downward pressure begins.

What is missing today in the developrs vocabulary is expectation management.

New investors are entering the market today with the same expeectations of those who invested 1,2 even 3 years ago.

This in my view is simply not realistic.

Good points HT.

I also think there is a lazy factor. Investors can buy a unit in west avenue with one phone call and one signature + 30%. Even at 2500psf they may be able to sell at 3000psf or so at completion so will make a small profit and secure themselve a unit in dubai for the long term. Buying resale is a lot more difficult at the moment, requires more money down, research, multiple agents, lots of work, dissapointment, sellers changing their minds about prices etc. Many people do not have the patience or the time or funds to put in to buying a resale.

:lol: It does not make sense. My torch unit was valued by Select Property at 1600/sqft for a fast sale.

I can understand why they need to charge 2500psf now for new off-plan because of increased building costs but what I do not understand is why people are buying at those prices when there are resale available much cheaper and closer to completion or already completed even. Perhaps all down to the difficulty in getting finance in Dubai. With west avenue you only need to pay 30% and the rest over 15 years. To buy a resale you need to pay everything the previous investor has paid in addition to the premium and then take over the rest of the payments. So it is cheaper for a new investor to buy at 2500psf and flip and make a profit than buy resale.
My 2 cents without getting into the otherwise very valid arguments advanced in this thread:
1. 'Fast' Sale request will always produce a lesser and a pretty skewed figure.
2. The developer will always quote a lower figure.
3. You are talking of fast sale in (a) slow month(s). Wait till Ramadaan is over.
4. Finally, TT has too many apts and, in any case, far too many are available for resale.

today, friday 18 july

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2624/img0154yy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2624/img0154yy8.4f1d3d30d5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=169&i=img0154yy8.jpg)

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9061/img0152wv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9061/img0152wv7.db3f317a29.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=145&i=img0152wv7.jpg)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1083/img0155de3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1083/img0155de3.9b047d2655.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=120&i=img0155de3.jpg)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9258/img0153zi9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9258/img0153zi9.deb835dedf.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=185&i=img0153zi9.jpg)

thanks glover excellent pics. looks like SP have been busy. they must have been reading our posts

great pics.. now we just dont have a hole in the ground.

we have a building/foundations appearing

^^:applause: Well said Beppe!

Gr8 pics Glover - did you need to wear a hard hat? LOL

Minor update to show all piling complete.

http://i35.tinypic.com/33tth8j.jpg

^^:applause: Well said Beppe!

Gr8 pics Glover - did you need to wear a hard hat? LOL

timr to do another prediction chart fwiw.ETC estimated time of completion:banana:

Minor update to show all piling complete.

http://i35.tinypic.com/33tth8j.jpg

thanks fwiw
good prediction i think it will be 2011:banana:

great update Glover... thanks FWIW... :)

FWIW.. can you put a few more prediction points in your time line such as

- construction above ground level
- completion of podium
- BC topped out etc

Hopefully the re-sale prices will start going upwards once the development is above ground... and once the market heats up again in winter !!

better to wait till then... i would advise you all not to sell it before that time.... :)



...

i have tried to assess my BC apartment for sale.....

Select Property contacted me and said that the resale value would be 1700/sqft .... :ohno: my apartment is 29th floor central tower with beautiful marina views....

at the same time they are launching the new project, west avenue, with poor marina views at 2500-2700/sqft.... :ohno:

i fail to understand this.... rubbish..:bash:






....

West Ave are fully serviced appartments (i.e. they come with furniture, management, etc).

Hang on in there Doc - You don't wanna give up your BC appartment for 1700!

great update Glover... thanks FWIW... :)

FWIW.. can you put a few more prediction points in your time line such as

- construction above ground level
- completion of podium
- BC topped out etc

Hopefully the re-sale prices will start going upwards once the development is above ground... and once the market heats up again in winter !!

better to wait till then... i would advise you all not to sell it before that time.... :)



...

Here you go Doc!

I have highlighted my guesses.

http://i38.tinypic.com/fz3se1.jpg

The official completition date looks like a joke to me now...I mean I wish it were true - but it is just not realistic!

thank you FWIW...
thank you for the information...atleast now i know the stages of the construction....:)
this is a last level of excavation...so hopefully will see entire plot excavation by end of august...

Found this:

http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/5941670.jpg

how big the plot is they need a bigger work force on the site.. :bash:

They have a massive workforce, they are all on marketing duties.:D

They have a massive workforce, they are all on marketing duties.:D

very true.TB:lol:

Updated the timeline with some info from the torch and the point.

If there are any SP people reading this, can you please explain how you will finish the towers by the official end date of 12/2009? In my opinion it would be best if you came clean and told us what the realistic schedule is...

Some specific questions I need answered for BC are:
1) When will actual construction start?
2) When will the towers be above ground level?
3) When will the podium be finished?
4) When will the towers be topped out?
5) When will you handover the appartments?
6) When will the hotel open?
7) When will you buy all of us here a drink or two for our continued patience?
8) How will the compensation plan actually work? An example would be good.

If you could use that list to also answer the torch and the point developments, then that would be helpful for my fellow investors.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2rh0ajd.jpg

They have a massive workforce, they are all on marketing duties.:D

Indeed - Like helmets, they have their headsets on plowing through each and every client entry in thier database, calling them in an attempt to sell apartments in their new launches. :ohno:

hi everyone is everyone on holidays not many posts.even on holidays keep sending posts in with any updates

today, friday jul 25

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3213/img0162os3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3213/img0162os3.e4738dd76c.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=137&i=img0162os3.jpg)

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2744/img0164wp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2744/img0164wp9.8f693c82ed.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=img0164wp9.jpg)

GREAT PICTURES THANKS

FINALLY WE SEE SOMETHING HAPPENING!!

so when does DCE has arrive??

i thort they come and break the pile caps ..?

They have a massive workforce, they are all on marketing duties.:D

great pics glover seem s le good progress. someone in SP must have seen true blues comments. all SP workforce must have been taken off marketing duties to start clearing the sand.
thanks glover. eep everyone updated.
your pictures always cheers all BC investors .:banana:

I think at this rate of progress handover will be well before the official completion date of December 2009. Likely to be summer 2009 IMO. :banana:

I think at this rate of progress handover will be well before the official completion date of December 2009. Likely to be summer 2009 IMO. :banana:

...yep - :banana: make that end 2008 - they are getting there in no time.

:lol:

I think at this rate of progress handover will be well before the official completion date of December 2009. Likely to be summer 2009 IMO. :banana:

Yeah they look like they are motoring - I may even bring my date forward!!!! BTW I've been on the sheesha tonight, washed down with a few :cheers::cheers::cheers:

:nuts:

I still don't understand why they erected that tower crane on site months before. Probably DCE didn't had any place where to store it.

I still don't understand why they erected that tower crane on site months before. Probably DCE didn't had any place where to store it.
:lol:

I think at this rate of progress handover will be well before the official completion date of December 2009. Likely to be summer 2009 IMO. :banana:

This is my first post as just found this forum.

I have bought 3 one bed apartments from SP (2 in BC and 1 in JBR which was handed over Sep 07. This was about 12 months late but all communication about this was handled by EMAAR rather than SP).

Had a long chat with SP today about BC and they say
- at this stage there is no reason to think BC will be delayed. Once the foundations are complete then the towers will grow quickly. This has happened with their Torch project. I know nothing about the Torch project
- BC sold out some time ago. However a client has very recently defaulted on payments for 2 one bed and 1 two bed apartments. These are now available at 2300 Dirhams a sq ft (my calculations based on price of the one bed apartments). :) I have no reason to doubt these prices as they consider that I may buy more from them so why would they over inflate the price? They say that BC will be an excellent development in the Marina because of its front line position.

Clearly SP are business people looking to make money selling property. However they have so far dealt with me very well and most people who know me would consider me to be a skeptic bordering on a cynic. It wouldn't surprise me if BC was up to 12 months late (no compensation is payable until this point) but I expect good capital appreciation. Overall a good result. :)

slowhand99

This is my first post as just found this forum.

I have bought 3 one bed apartments from SP (2 in BC and 1 in JBR which was handed over Sep 07. This was about 12 months late but all communication about this was handled by EMAAR rather than SP).

Had a long chat with SP today about BC and they say
- at this stage there is no reason to think BC will be delayed. Once the foundations are complete then the towers will grow quickly. This has happened with their Torch project. I know nothing about the Torch project
- BC sold out some time ago. However a client has very recently defaulted on payments for 2 one bed and 1 two bed apartments. These are now available at 2300 Dirhams a sq ft (my calculations based on price of the one bed apartments). :) I have no reason to doubt these prices as they consider that I may buy more from them so why would they over inflate the price? They say that BC will be an excellent development in the Marina because of its front line position.

Clearly SP are business people looking to make money selling property. However they have so far dealt with me very well and most people who know me would consider me to be a skeptic bordering on a cynic. It wouldn't surprise me if BC was up to 12 months late (no compensation is payable until this point) but I expect good capital appreciation. Overall a good result. :)

slowhand99

Morris is taking the piss 2009 he means 2011/2012. 2300 psf is a fortune. SP are very nice until your involved and then they become idiots. Even today they still think The Point is on track for Sept and havnt had the courtesy to inform ANY investors that this will not be the case. Remember like you, all do not know about SSC and the likes, so are really kept in the dark and ill informed. Search back through the The Torch thread and see when that started.

Morris is taking the piss 2009 he means 2011/2012. 2300 psf is a fortune. SP are very nice until your involved and then they become idiots. Even today they still think The Point is on track for Sept and havnt had the courtesy to inform ANY investors that this will not be the case. Remember like you, all do not know about SSC and the likes, so are really kept in the dark and ill informed. Search back through the The Torch thread and see when that started.

I'll save you guys some trouble with the start date for the torch. It was pre-launched April/May 2005 and due to be finished by originally June 2008 and then Dec 2008!

Anyone know what the official end date is for the torch?

Sept 09 for completion (not hand over)

This should take another 3 to 4 years to finish if things go well :cheers:

Anyone venture a revised guess at a realistic completion date bearing in mind good progress recently? Leave aside the fact that it's slow at present - it's going to speed up again once the cut and paste gets going with the reduced floor plate.

Just for comparrison:

The Torch in October 2006 which was at around the same stage as Bay Central now.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2782/dsc0011ok1.jpg


October 2007

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6446/imresolt044ia3.jpg



So Bay Central should be just coming out of the ground this time next year

This should take another 3 to 4 years to finish if things go well :cheers:

SP are still telling me that Dec 2009 is what DCE have told them!
:banana:

Is it not slower to get three towers out of the ground rather than 1 ?

SP are still telling me that Dec 2009 is what DCE have told them!
:banana:
IMHO Podium will be complete by JULY O9 nothing else - towers are snaller than Torch but will take 12 months to build from then and further year to kit out = JULY 2011 handover

Is it not slower to get three towers out of the ground rather than 1 ?

It shouldn't be.............for a bigger project you just put more machinery and labour onto the job. As an example look at Burj Dubai, a tower about three times the size of the Torch but it hasn't taken three times longer to build it.

This is my first post as just found this forum.

I have bought 3 one bed apartments from SP (2 in BC and 1 in JBR which was handed over Sep 07. This was about 12 months late but all communication about this was handled by EMAAR rather than SP).

Had a long chat with SP today about BC and they say
- at this stage there is no reason to think BC will be delayed. Once the foundations are complete then the towers will grow quickly. This has happened with their Torch project. I know nothing about the Torch project
- BC sold out some time ago. However a client has very recently defaulted on payments for 2 one bed and 1 two bed apartments. These are now available at 2300 Dirhams a sq ft (my calculations based on price of the one bed apartments). :) I have no reason to doubt these prices as they consider that I may buy more from them so why would they over inflate the price? They say that BC will be an excellent development in the Marina because of its front line position.

Clearly SP are business people looking to make money selling property. However they have so far dealt with me very well and most people who know me would consider me to be a skeptic bordering on a cynic. It wouldn't surprise me if BC was up to 12 months late (no compensation is payable until this point) but I expect good capital appreciation. Overall a good result. :)

slowhand99

Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum.

I'd be absolutely overjoyed if BC was only 12 months late......just can't see it being ready in 2.5 years time. The size of the plot is enormous. SP will say anything about completion dates, they live in a fantasy world.

^^^^You been sacked Mol?

^^^^You been sacked Mol?

I'll be gobsmacked. 2.5 years - fair guesstimate. I think the plot would remain as is, till at least the start of 2010. All we will see are pieces of "lego" building blocks dotted around the site with no noticeable sign of development progress. Bottom-line - a hole in the ground till Q1-2010.

i think everyone wants it too finish sooner than later.. i think 1 year from the offical completion date is a fair and good time for completion

I'll be gobsmacked. 2.5 years - fair guesstimate. I think the plot would remain as is, till at least the start of 2010. All we will see are pieces of "lego" building blocks dotted around the site with no noticeable sign of development progress. Bottom-line - a hole in the ground till Q1-2010.

A hole in the ground till Q1 2010? Are you serious? That's being way too pessimistic.
The only way that could happen is if it went on hold for a year.
They've already finished the piling you know.

Added some more SP projects.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2cfw8dg.jpg

Anyone know if SP have said anything about The Points completion date? Supposed to be finished in 1 month or so! :lol:

Malec - What is your guess for BC handover date?

The Torch's official completion according to SP is Sept. 2009, not Dec 08.

The Torch's official completion according to SP is Sept. 2009, not Dec 08.

SP must have moved it again.

I got the date from here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=381118

I will update chart with Sep 09 for torch - thanks for letting me know.:cheers:

The Torch's official completion according to SP is Sept. 2009, not Dec 08.

I think it depends on when the customer contracted. When I bought, it was Dec 08. I think the compensation for late delivery kicks in with Sept 09, and some later contracts have that date as the completion, possibly with an extra 6-9 months' leeway before compensation, I'm not sure.

^^

Correct.

But Naz is also right in stating that SP have stated the Torch will complete Sept 09, (regardless of previous contractual dates). This is what their schedule and propaganda says now.

They are about year premature in their estimate.

Description Final level of excavation nears completion, with the Hotel area now excavated as well.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2wflir7.jpg

Description The last level of anchors are now being tensioned on the final level of excavation.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2w4cx78.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/34pdlea.jpg

Description Pile capping continues where the ground is done at the excavated level.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2e58do1.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2wflir7.jpg

" Description Final level of excavation nears completion, with the Hotel area now excavated as well."

:hilarious

^^

Correct.

But Naz is also right in stating that SP have stated the Torch will complete Sept 09, (regardless of previous contractual dates). This is what their schedule and propaganda says now.

They are about year premature in their estimate.

Out of interest how was this delay communicated? Were there any reasons given for the delay? Only reason I ask is when do we the BC investors get a similar letter? Don't get me wrong - I want BC to be finished by Dec 2009, but I am also a realist by nature!

Out of interest how was this delay communicated? Were there any reasons given for the delay? Only reason I ask is when do we the BC investors get a similar letter? Don't get me wrong - I want BC to be finished by Dec 2009, but I am also a realist by nature!

The first revised Torch completion date, amending it to December 2008, was communicated to investors in February 2007. Was due to the delays in receiving construction permits from the Master developer.

The second revision to September 2009 was communicated in May 2007 and was due to unprecedented construction activity in Dubai putting pressure on the availability of construction materials, professional services and labour and the summer months work break during the day time.

SP will not admit they are behined schedule as it opens up all sorts of legal consequences for them, thats why they still insist on rediculous completion dates.

Torch investors were informed by letters such as this one and others.

http://i34.tinypic.com/jv13t2.jpg

A fair enough reason IMO - this has affected the vast majority of developers in Dubai.

^^ Appreciate your posts guys.

What I am trying to get at is that in May 2007 they admit that there was delays beyond SP's control. Several months after this they sell me an appartment and swear blind it will be ready for Dec 2009.

Lucky for me I never believed them (bloody sales people) and added 1 more year as contingency. What is getting me down is that adding 1 year was not enough!

today, friday aug 1

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7386/dscf0005bx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7386/dscf0005bx8.b536b36008.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=383&i=dscf0005bx8.jpg)

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/802/dscf0004ha2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/802/dscf0004ha2.fe6a978b04.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=363&i=dscf0004ha2.jpg)

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7740/dscf0003fr2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7740/dscf0003fr2.0cc994c054.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=359&i=dscf0003fr2.jpg)

Thanks for the pics Glover :applause:

great pix cant wait too see when its completely cleared

thanks for the photos. Signs of activity!! :)

SP have an incentive to complete by 2010 otherwise they have to pay compensation. Maybe they will increase the resources on the job to avoid paying this. There was no penalty on JBR for late delivery.

Are there penalties on other project or is this a new development?

slowhand99

Compensation on SP projects are linked to LIBOR Dollar rates so are less than an interest baring account in the UAE.

Negative in real terms, so hardly an incentive to meet deadlines.

:cry:

Compensation on SP projects are linked to LIBOR Dollar rates so are less than an interest baring account in the UAE.

Negative in real terms, so hardly an incentive to meet deadlines.

Let's hope that the hotel have got a better compensation plan and can make things happen!

As slowhand mentioned other projects don't have any compensation schemes at all. So even though the BC one may not make us rich, it should be seen as a positive.

^^^^

Yes i would imagine the hotel group has a more significant compensation clause in their contract.

They will also have opt outs and breakaways too so, if for any reason they want to walk away they can.

Has anyone checked their BC contract to see if there is anything regarding short term lets in it. The reason i ask is i cant imagine a hotel group being happy with 2 identical towers next door having use of its services and being able to rent rooms out at any price of their choosing. They must have covered this somehow as this could be very bad for business if they are constantly being undercut by neighbours whilst having to allow the very same people to use their pools, bars and so on. If it is not in your contract then i wouldnt mind betting it will be in the management agreement that will be in place when the development is delivered.

Sorry to sound negative, but big hotel chains arn't in the habbit of setting up a business and letting their neighbours enjoy the benefits of their building whilst allowing compatition to set up shop without the same overheads and undercut them on price.

When all said and done i think BC will be an excellent project to be part of when it's completed if you are holding for the long term. The point i am making about the compensation just means that any sensible person should bare in mind that this project wont be handed over until 2011 and as a investor you should plan for that financialy now rather than beliieve the crap the builder is telling you. Providing you understand that, it's all good in the hood.

^^^^

Yes i would imagine the hotel group has a more significant compensation clause in their contract.

They will also have opt outs and breakaways too so, if for any reason they want to walk away they can.

Has anyone checked their BC contract to see if there is anything regarding short term lets in it. The reason i ask is i cant imagine a hotel group being happy with 2 identical towers next door having use of its services and being able to rent rooms out at any price of their choosing. They must have covered this somehow as this could be very bad for business if they are constantly being undercut by neighbours whilst having to allow the very same people to use their pools, bars and so on. If it is not in your contract then i wouldnt mind betting it will be in the management agreement that will
be in place when the development is delivered.

Sorry to sound negative, but big hotel chains arn't in the habbit of setting up a business and letting their neighbours enjoy the benefits of their building whilst allowing compatition to set up shop without the same overheads and undercut them on price.

When all said and done i think BC will be an excellent project to be part of when it's completed if you are holding for the long term. The point i am making about the compensation just means that any sensible person should bare in mind that this project wont be handed over until 2011 and as a investor you should plan for that financialy now rather than beliieve the crap the builder is telling you. Providing you understand that, it's all good in the hood.

I think [and have heard] that the hotel will offer rates for rental, to owners for letting their apartments out for them. Similar to that offered by the Grosvenor House. You can specify a period or tell them when it's available and they have set rates for that time. Only downside [if it is one] is that you have to pick a "furniture package" to suit their design etc. Up side as i have mentioned previously is Rennaisance is owned by The Marriot Group who also own Ritz Carlton and usage of beach and pools at Ritz may be available. That would be the dream ticket in my opinion...What do yoiu think?

Good points made here by High Times and Maktol. The BC contract does not in fact specifically state short term lets are allowed, but there again it does not prohibit them - same wording as Torch contract, simply "residential use". I did query this with SP at the time of purchase and they told me the whole idea of BC was for holiday lets and it would be rather ridiculous for them to be excluded as that's the whole point of having the hotel on site. However you always of course have to dscount such talk especially if it's not in the contract. I did feel it was to some extent a "suck it and see" situation and we'll only know for definite when the project is handed over.
But given that my purchase was only about 5% more expensive than an equivalent unit in The Point then the price I was paying was in fairness only the same as a "normal" residential unit. (BC unit cost me AED 1,282 p.s.f compared with lauch price of AED 1,218 p.s.f in TP - but TP was launched seven months earlier.)
Perhaps a little more pricey than equivalent developments such as Silverene but I had little choice as I could only put 30% deposit down and needed to have the long term payment plan - my income would not allow me to raise a mortgage on Silverene and certainly I did not have anywhere near enough money to pay cash upfront to buy elsewhere.
............So Bay Central it was. I certainly wish I'd had the use of a crystal ball as I'd have been much better off buying at The Point even though holiday lets would be less attractive. The Point should be handed over hopefully in about 12months time. The long wait for BC (looking like 3 years from now) is going to eat substantially into profits and much more importantly cashflow. Like many others I guess, I'm not sure whether I can make all the payments until completion. But if the Hotel situation is as promised then there should be excellent capital growth here and the option to sell before completion in 1-2 years time and buy a re-sale elsewhere is certainly worth looking at.

I think [and have heard] that the hotel will offer rates for rental, to owners for letting their apartments out for them. Similar to that offered by the Grosvenor House. You can specify a period or tell them when it's available and they have set rates for that time. Only downside [if it is one] is that you have to pick a "furniture package" to suit their design etc. Up side as i have mentioned previously is Rennaisance is owned by The Marriot Group who also own Ritz Carlton and usage of beach and pools at Ritz may be available. That would be the dream ticket in my opinion...What do yoiu think?

If you don't mind me asking, where have you heard this from ?? The Hotel getting involved like this would be excellent but I have heard nothing at all about this, certainly not from SP. Are you basing this on what has happened at other developments with a hotel on site, hoping it will happen at BC, or is there any concrete here ??





(Something concrete would be nice........but perhaps we'll have to wait until the New Year to see any :lol:)

I think [and have heard] that the hotel will offer rates for rental, to owners for letting their apartments out for them. Similar to that offered by the Grosvenor House. You can specify a period or tell them when it's available and they have set rates for that time. Only downside [if it is one] is that you have to pick a "furniture package" to suit their design etc. Up side as i have mentioned previously is Rennaisance is owned by The Marriot Group who also own Ritz Carlton and usage of beach and pools at Ritz may be available. That would be the dream ticket in my opinion...What do yoiu think?

In theory this is great. There are more downsides though.

I had a similar set up with IFA hotels & resorts in the kingdom of sheba on the Palm.

It is likely that the BC hotel will sign you up to a contract so that they can use your unit. Within the contract it will state that you can not let out to a paying customer whilst contracted with them. Of course you can still use the unit for your own private use.

They also do not guarantee you any bookings and you get around 70% of the net rate.

If the hotel has 100% occupancy year round then they will use additional units who are contracted to them under this scheme.

It's a win win for the hotel for sure. You need to look into the contract very carefully before agreeing to let them use your unit.

If you don't mind me asking, where have you heard this from ?? The Hotel getting involved like this would be excellent but I have heard nothing at all about this, certainly not from SP. Are you basing this on what has happened at other developments with a hotel on site, hoping it will happen at BC, or is there any concrete here ??





(Something concrete would be nice........but perhaps we'll have to wait until the New Year to see any :lol:)

Heard it from SP as it was part of the reason i bought. The other being i think the location and developement look great. I also have a friend that works for Marriot and they "alluded" to me that this would be the "normal procedure in such a developement".
Also regarding occupancy levels in hotels...if they have "X" amount of rooms and apartments they advertise that amount and don't use the apartments as overflow. So if hotel is 300 rooms and they have 100 apts in BC they advertise based on that level and occupancy levels are based on the same.
Current occupany levels on beach hotels run on average at 94% with the months from October to April in excess of 100%...thus the need for more 5* hotels and serviced apartments. The two attract different people for obvious reasons...
Think it about it ~ makes sense, do you agree?

I agree, rental return should be good for you guys. So maybe worth the long wait for completion in the end.

I agree, rental return should be good for you guys. So maybe worth the long wait for completion in the end.

Thanks Steve, certainly hope so. :)

This is a good thing for the area ~ what are everyone's thoughts?

Plans for 20 stations from which to run a new water taxi service in Dubai starting next year have been approved by transport chiefs.

The Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) on Sunday revealed the locations, which will launch in mid-2009 to beef up marine transit for the masses in the city.

Khalid Mohammed Al Zahed, acting CEO of RTA Marine Agency, said: "Twenty locations have been approved for establishing Water Taxi stations during the initial phase of the project, which will contribute to alleviating traffic congestion in Dubai.

"The project will be important in the foreseeable future, following the completion of giant maritime projects such as the Palm Deira, the Palm Jumeirah, the Palm Jebel Ali, and The World. Works have already started in designing a model Water Taxi station."

The Agency carried out several site visits in order to identify possible locations for the stations.

Following a study, stations have been classified into four groups: stations ready for construction or modification, stations that require time for construction, stations feasible in 2011, and stations considered unfeasible.

Al Zahed added: "Stations ready for construction or modification include Bur Dubai Station, Dubai Old Souk Station, Old Deira Souk Station, Al Sabkha Station, Bani Yas Station, Al Seef Station, the Floating Bridge Station, the Golf Club Station, Park Hyatt Hotel Station, and Dubai Festival City Station.

"They also include four stations in Dubai Marina, Jebel Ali Golf Resort Station, Al Habtour Hotel Station, Grand and Royal Meridian Hotel Station, Jumeirah Hilton Station, and Jumeirah Sheraton Station."

Initially, 10 boats, costing 30 million dirhams, will be operated as Water Taxis.

The project also covers Al Khor lines, the Coastal Line running along Jumeirah coast to serve tourists in the emirate, and the line linking down town Dubai with the Palms projects (Jumeirah, Deira and Jebel Ali) and The World.

All Water Taxi will be fitted with the best marine security and safety tools and will accommodate 11 passengers in addition to the driver.

This is a good thing for the area ~ what are everyone's thoughts?

Plans for 20 stations from which to run a new water taxi service in Dubai starting next year have been approved by transport chiefs.

The Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) on Sunday revealed the locations, which will launch in mid-2009 to beef up marine transit for the masses in the city.

Khalid Mohammed Al Zahed, acting CEO of RTA Marine Agency, said: "Twenty locations have been approved for establishing Water Taxi stations during the initial phase of the project, which will contribute to alleviating traffic congestion in Dubai.

"The project will be important in the foreseeable future, following the completion of giant maritime projects such as the Palm Deira, the Palm Jumeirah, the Palm Jebel Ali, and The World. Works have already started in designing a model Water Taxi station."

The Agency carried out several site visits in order to identify possible locations for the stations.

Following a study, stations have been classified into four groups: stations ready for construction or modification, stations that require time for construction, stations feasible in 2011, and stations considered unfeasible.

Al Zahed added: "Stations ready for construction or modification include Bur Dubai Station, Dubai Old Souk Station, Old Deira Souk Station, Al Sabkha Station, Bani Yas Station, Al Seef Station, the Floating Bridge Station, the Golf Club Station, Park Hyatt Hotel Station, and Dubai Festival City Station.

"They also include four stations in Dubai Marina, Jebel Ali Golf Resort Station, Al Habtour Hotel Station, Grand and Royal Meridian Hotel Station, Jumeirah Hilton Station, and Jumeirah Sheraton Station."

Initially, 10 boats, costing 30 million dirhams, will be operated as Water Taxis.

The project also covers Al Khor lines, the Coastal Line running along Jumeirah coast to serve tourists in the emirate, and the line linking down town Dubai with the Palms projects (Jumeirah, Deira and Jebel Ali) and The World.

All Water Taxi will be fitted with the best marine security and safety tools and will accommodate 11 passengers in addition to the driver.

Very good news - I hope to take a water taxi from BC to the mall and then back again!!!:lol:

^^^^ Good news but the swim would do you better.

you could swim too the marina walk..!

@beppe 786: with all the dead fishes there?

you might smell a bit fishy when you get there..

Plans for 20 stations from which to run a new water taxi service in Dubai starting next year have been approved by transport chiefs.

The Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) on Sunday revealed the locations, which will launch in mid-2009 to beef up marine transit for the masses in the city.

It would be good to see the locations of these stations around the marina

True - the Dubai Marina mall would def benefit from it..

any pics Glover??

thanks

Hey, why Select Property website is not working?
Are they on holiday?:banana:

^^ maybe elso tryin to relaunch the website :banana:

http://www.selectproperty.com its working now...

today, friday aug 22

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1082/img0176np7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1082/img0176np7.67d546bad5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=155&i=img0176np7.jpg)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8463/img0168ux1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8463/img0168ux1.c0ca95d514.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=247&i=img0168ux1.jpg)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6035/img0169nk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6035/img0169nk0.49d47fd107.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=155&i=img0169nk0.jpg)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5825/img0170gw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5825/img0170gw3.6a6736c12a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=155&i=img0170gw3.jpg)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8797/img0171jy0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8797/img0171jy0.48c75ca70c.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=262&i=img0171jy0.jpg)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3789/img0172el0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3789/img0172el0.74f4c19315.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=262&i=img0172el0.jpg)

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6691/img0173oh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6691/img0173oh0.9911808d7c.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=241&i=img0173oh0.jpg)

2012 handover at the earliest.

thanks glover . why 2012 high times progress looks good to me. fwiw do another chart